INCOGNITO the podcast

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Gail Plant is an inspirational Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging advocate. She attended Drexel University, where she received her B.A. in Computer Information Systems. Immediately following graduation from Drexel in 1995, she began her career with a local company, where she worked for 27 years until her retirement in June 2022. During her tenure, she held several leadership roles within the company’s Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion efforts. Gail received her M.A. in Leadership Development in 2015, and she has spent the last 28 years coaching, mentoring, and leading others on the journey of embracing and fostering the value of themselves and others.

Key Takeaways:

If you’re the smartest person in the room, then you need a new crowd
Remain teachable
Listen to young people
Being an ally means speaking up in the moment, not after the fact
An inclusive society starts at the individual level
V.A.L.U.E. – Victorious, Authentic, Loving oneself, Uniqueness, Empowerment
Valuing you starts with you
Honor everyone’s perspective in a room
Authenticity is the ability to be yourself in every situation, regardless of the circumstances, and, in doing so, unleash your full potential

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Sound Of Hope: The Story of Possum Trot (Film)

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Emily McConnell is a collaborator, designer, educator, and researcher based in Chicago. She has been the resident costume designer at the CCPA Theatre Conservatory at Roosevelt University since 2007, designing almost 100 productions during that time all while managing the costume shop and teaching and supervising students. Starting in the fall of 2024, she will also be serving as the Program Director for Interdisciplinary Theatre Studies and the Curriculum Coordinator for Technical Theatre. She has been an Artistic Associate at Steep Theatre since 2011 and worked as a freelance designer in Chicago theatre since 1999 with credits including The House, Northlight, Oak Park Theatre Festival, Lifeline Theatre, and The Gift. Her research into collaborative methods in theatrical design has presented that research at conferences including the Association for Theatre in Higher Education and the American Theatrical Costume Association, and her writing has been published in HowlRound Theatrical Commons and Theatre Design and Technology Magazine. She holds a BA in Drama from Dartmouth College and an MA in Theatre Design from Northwestern.

Key Takeaways:

Proximity is not enough – gaining new knowledge and expanding your awareness is essential to progress
Be mindful of the identities present in the spaces you are in (including your own)
Determine the priorities of everyone in the room – ask yourself how you can support these goals
Transparency is key to resolving conflicts in the workplace
Honesty should be the starting point
Present the problem, not the solution
Mutual investment in collaboration will bring about the best outcome
Authenticity means being honest and open about your strengths, vulnerabilities, and limitations

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley

Find Guest’s work:

Emily’s Website: https://www.emilymccdesign.com/
Emily’s Blog: https://www.emilymccdesign.com/blog

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Lusanda Mayikana is the Dean of Pluralism and Multicultural Affairs at Lake Forest Academy. She holds a Doctor of Philosophy in Education and Social Justice from Lancaster University (U.K.), a Master of Arts in English Education from the University of the Witwatersrand (South Africa), and a Master of Arts in English from Middlebury College. Lusanda came to Lake Forest Academy in 2003 after spending a year as a Harvard-South Africa fellow in the African American Studies department and the Graduate School of Education at Harvard University. As the Dean of Equity, Pluralism, Inclusion, and Community, Lusanda is committed to fostering an inclusive culture and community where all members enjoy belonging, agency, and support. Her focus on bridging by listening, engaging, and intentionally organizing emphasizes connectedness, understanding, and learning about our varied lived experiences.

Key Takeaways:

“I am because of those around me”
Meet people where they are
Be curious
Play to the strengths of you and those around you
Slow down
Take the time to listen to others, even those you disagree with
Authenticity comes from self-knowledge, self-awareness, and sincerity
Trust who you are
Create spaces where people can take risks and, in doing so, be their authentic selves

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Learning to Disagree by John Inazu(book)

Find Guest’s work:

Lake Forest Academy: https://www.lfanet.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Dr. Damon Cates has been the President & CEO of One Hope United since 2024. Damon received a BA from Millikin University, an MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business and an EdD from the University of Pennsylvania. He joined One Hope United from the University of Chicago, where, for over 16 years of service, he led alumni relations and development programs for several of the University’s academic units. In addition to UChicago, Damon has also held leadership fundraising positions at the University of Pennsylvania and Stanford University. Damon is a sought-after speaker who regularly presents at conferences. He has published articles on enhancing constituent engagement and building organizational capacity, and was appointed by Governor JB Pritzker to the Illinois Youth Budget Commission in 2023.

Key Takeaways:

Be honest about your lived experience – you can always find commonalities with others
Be aware of the assumptions you make of others on face value
Be mindful of the shame that can be attached to certain identities – allow yourself and others to share your/their identity on your/their own terms
Engage in your community and the causes you support in whatever ways you can
Never underestimate the power of being with people in person
Be present and intentional in interactions with others
Authenticity comes from passion

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Beautiful Thing (film)

Find Guest’s work:

One Hope United: https://onehopeunited.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Jeffrey Spahn is the founder and president of Leading Leaders Inc. For more than 20 years he has researched, coached and inspired top business executives and their teams through the distinctive collective leadership process of We the Leader. Jeff’s journey into leading leaders was sparked by experiences of collective flow in high school and as a letterman on the University of Michigan football team. His business degree from the University of Michigan and doctorate from the University of Chicago ground his practice in sound scholarship. Jeff’s most recent publication is the book, We the Leader, published by McGraw-Hill.

Key Takeaways:

We are all both leaders and followers
Collective flow comes from explicitly stating shared intentions to foster connection
Mutual investment within a community allows us to see others as valuable and vital
Ask questions – be curious
Practice dialogue – stay open to new ideas
Try things and take risks to foster new connections
Assert your beliefs – don’t impose or withhold – and be ready to let them go
Reframe difference from something to avoid or attack to an opportunity to create
Authenticity requires community – to be authentic you need to allow others to be authentic

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Mary Parker Follett – Prophet of Management: A Celebration of Writings from the 1920s (book) edited by Peter F. Drucker

Find Guest’s work:

Jeff Spahn’s Website: https://wetheleader.com/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Dr. Beth-Sarah Wright, an Atlanta-based author, dynamic speaker, and strategic thought partner, writes to inspire transformation and change in communities, institutions, and personal lives. Her impactful work tackles deep-rooted challenges that demand identity shifts and enhanced capacities to achieve lasting, meaningful change. Dr. Wright champions authenticity, striving to align our aspirational identities with our lived realities. Dr. Wright is the author of seven influential books, served for 10 years on the senior leadership team as the director of enrollment management at the largest parish Episcopal school in the country, and serves as an Adjunct Assistant Professor in Psychiatry at Emory School of Medicine.

Key Takeaways:

Define yourself: “If I didn’t define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people’s fantasies for me and eaten alive” – Audre Lorde
Respect the dignity of every human being
Take the time to pause and look again
Your identity is not an obstacle – if it feels like one, it has not been truly seen
Be careful of the ideas about certain identities you may project onto others
Ask questions – be curious
We have the power to write new beginnings and endings to our stories
Lead with DIGNITY: Diversity, Identity, Growth, Nurture, Integrity, Transparency, Yield
Authenticity is when aspirational identity aligns with lived reality

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Tiny Love Stories: True Tales of Love in 100 Words or Less (book) edited by Daniel T. Jones and Miya Lee

Find Guest’s work:

Dr. Beth-Sarah Wright’s Website: https://bethsarahwright.com/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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T. Mark Meyer is a psychotherapist and a consultant for the world’s largest corporations, leading workshops on conflict resolution, authenticity, and authentic management. He coaches professional athletes in discovering their purpose and counsels both couples and individuals. After founding and spearheading several successful companies, Mark connected with his authentic self and refocused his professional aspirations. He’s a business coach and Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) Master Practitioner who uses his personal experience to help others live their most authentic lives.

Key Takeaways:

Authenticity is a life-long journey
Accomplishments won’t bring you happiness if you don’t know your purpose in life
Accept people where they are – go with the flow
Authenticity and purpose drive innovation and creativity in workplaces
Authenticity is as much about being yourself as it is about allowing others to be themselves
Stay curious and non-judgemental
Shift your thinking from “what should I accomplish now?” to “who do I want to be now?”

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

The Myth of Normal (book) by Dr. Gabor Maté

Find Guest’s work:

T. Mark Meyer’s Website: https://tmarkmeyer.com/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Sean DeMarco Garcia is the Founder/Coordinator of Astrochemistry Consulting LLC, which offers training and coaching sessions in de-escalation and crisis intervention for frontline workers. They teach individuals how to humanely deescalate those experiencing an emotional or mental wellness crisis both in personal and professional interactions. Sean has written a book on his de-escalation work throughout his life entitled “It Isn’t About You,” and has 30+ years of experience as a naval veteran, police officer, and head of the private security department for a hospital.

Key Takeaways

We are all connected
Curate a worldview that is based in culture
Experience as much of the beauty of the world as you can
Be careful of your perceptions of others and the way these can influence your own behavior
Three things to live by: empathy, listening, and validating emotions
It’s not about you – everyone is dealing with something
Slow down – don’t rush to respond
Prioritize self-care and encourage others to do the same
Be curious – learn about the perspectives and cultures of others

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

It Isn’t About You (book) by Sean DeMarco Garcia

Find Guest’s work:

AstroChemistry Consulting: https://actc11.com/home-page

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Elaine Ho serves as NASA’s Chief Diversity Officer, providing executive and transformative leadership over diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility (DEIA) policy and programs for the entire NASA workforce. Ho is a long-time public servant who has been connected to DEIA throughout her career, having held multiple high-level positions at the Department of Agriculture, IRS, and the White House. Prior to her federal service career, Ho was a practicing attorney, specializing in employment law and workplace diversity and inclusion, and served over four years active duty as an Air Force criminal prosecutor.

Key Takeaways:

Representation matters – you have to see it to be able to achieve it
Collaboration is everything
Trust is the foundation of successful collaboration
Meet people where they are at – put yourself in their shoes
Demonstrate the value of DEIA to get people onboard
There are times to be right and there are times to understand
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken
Authenticity is a lifelong state of self-reflection

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

The Space Race (documentary)

Find Guest’s work:

NASA: https://www.nasa.gov/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Welcome back to another season of INCOGNITO the podcast! In the first episode of Season 7, Michael offers his thoughts on the demonstrated value of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) in our society and the high cost of its politicization in the U.S. Michael shares his insight into navigating the divisive world we find ourselves in and reminds listeners that DEI is a human issue, not a political one.

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram.

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Laura Schellhardt is a Chicago based playwright and adapter. Her original works include Air Guitar High, Auctioning the Ainsleys, The Apothecary's Daughter, The K of D, Courting Vampires, and Shapeshifters, among many others. Adaptations include The Phantom Tollbooth, The Outfit, and Creole Folktales. She is also the author of Screenwriting for Dummies. She’s a two-time Jeff Award nominee and recipient of the AATE Distinguished Play Award, the New Play Frontier’s residency, the TCG National Playwriting Residency, the Jerome Fellowship, the New Play Award from ACT in Seattle, and a Dramatist Guild Playwriting Fellowship. She has participated in the SoHo Rep Writer/Director Lab, the Women Playwrights Festival at SRC, the Kennedy Center's New Voices/New Visions Festival, the Bonderman TYA Symposium, the Ojai New Play Conference, the Denver Center New Play Summit, the Bay Area Theatre Festival, and the O'Neill National Playwright's Festival, among others. She received her graduate degree from Brown University, under Paula Vogel. She’s a former Victory Gardens Resident Playwright and current member of Walkabout Playwrights Collective and she oversees the undergraduate play Schellhardt oversees the undergraduate playwriting program in the Department of Theatre at Northwestern University.

Key Takeaways

We all hold many identities and their salience changes with time and context
Privilege can be an obstacle when you’re not aware of it but it can be a tool to empower others
What you practice grows stronger, especially with how you talk to yourself and others
What and how you give your attention is one of your most powerful tools
Effort > outcome and process > product
There’s a difference between safety and comfort and it is important to learn and grow in discomfort
Authenticity is a series of choices based on your values and intentions
Take yourself seriously but hold yourself lightly
Make connections not impressions

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

The Anti-Racist Writing Workshop: How To Decolonize the Creative Classroom by Felicia Rose Chavez (book)
Creative Acts for Curious People by Sarah Stein Greenberg (book)

Find Guest’s work:

https://communication.northwestern.edu/faculty/laura-schellhardt.html

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Shannon Watson is a communicator, strategist, thought leader, and civic thinker. Shannon has worked in policy public affairs roles for Majority in the Middle, Casper Corcoran, The Medical Alley Association, St. Paul Area Chamber, U.S. Bank, the Minnesota Senate and the National conference of State Legislatures. She has more than two decades of experience in electoral politics having worked on local and state-wide campaigns on both sides of the aisle in Kansas, Colorado and Minnesota. She holds a bachelor's degree in English, Theatre, and Psychology from Wichita State University and a master's degree in Advocacy and Political Leadership from the University of Minnesota-Duluth. She currently lives in Minneapolis with her dog, CJ.

Key Takeaways

Unfortunately people often focus on differences first, how can we challenge ourselves to look past differences to see similarities
The more time and effort put into relationships makes people more comfortable with people who are different from them or with things they don’t understand
There’s no all or nothing — every group is varied and has diversity within it
Authenticity is about owning your successes and failures

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

The Newsroom (TV series)

Find Guest’s work:

https://www.majoritymiddle.com/shannon-watson

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Michael Rohd is a theatre-maker, educator, process designer, writer and facilitator. His research and creative practice is focused on civic imagination. He has a 30+ year history of projects across sectors bringing cultural activity to the work of public engagement, community planning and cross-sector coalition building. In 1992 in Washington DC he co-founded Hope Is Vital, an arts & public health program that, over 8 years, helped start up theatre-based public engagement/HIV prevention coalitions in over 80 communities around the US. In 1999, he co-founded Sojourn Theatre and served as artistic director for 20 years, co creating and directing nearly 30 devised often site specific and participatory theatre works. In 2012, he co-founded Center for Performance and Civic Practice, a collective of nine artists/facilitators who work with organizations and agencies around the country on community research, transformational process and system change. He is currently Civic Collaborations Director for One Nation One Project, a national arts/municipality/public health project & research cohort in partnership with National League of Cities; he is co-designer/co-facilitator for Art-Train, a virtual national technical assistance program in partnership with Springboard for the Arts. He recently founded the Co-Lab for Civic Imagination at the University of Montana, and he is author of the book Theatre for Community, Conflict and Dialogue.

Key Takeaways

Groups of people share something, whether that is space, time, values or goals
What is the harm of entering a space with the intention of persuading others at all costs?
Bringing people together might require different tactics depending on their goals. Reflect and dialogue with community members before jumping in
Working with a co-facilitator makes for better processes and better outcomes
When things are off, be mindful. Pause and be transparent about what might be going wrong
We all need to build our capacity for listening

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

The Candy House by Jennifer Egan (book)
Can’t Drink Salt Water by Kendra Mylnechuk Potter (play)

Find Guest’s work:

https://howlround.com/commons/michael-rohd

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Rhodes Perry is a bestselling author, award-winning entrepreneur, and an internationally sought-after keynoter. He helps senior executives and people leaders build belonging at work by establishing psychological safety and trust. Nationally recognized as a diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) thought leader, he has over 20 years of leadership experience having worked at the White House, the Department of Justice, the City of New York and PFLAG National. Media Outlets like Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, and the Associated Press have featured his powerful work. Both of his books, Belonging at Work (2018) and Imagine Belonging (2022) debuted as #1 Amazon bestsellers and were published by Publish Your Purpose Press. He earned a BA from the University of Notre Dame, and a MPA from New York University. He currently serves on the National LGBTQ+ Chamber of Commerce’s Transgender Inclusion Task Force, and the Cascade AIDS Project’s Board of Directors.

Key Takeaways

When people share their identities and experiences with you, receive them with care
Standing up and advocating for yourself paves the way for others to do the same
Be aware of who you intentionally including and also who you might accidentally be discluding
Push yourself out of your comfort zone to engage with many communities and people who identify differently than you
When you notice that you’re uncomfortable, note where its happening in your body, and remember that learning happens just past the edge of your comfort zone
At work it's important for everyone to have the agency to show up as authentically as they choose
Pay attention to who’s speaking, whose ideas are considered and whose aren’t

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Disclosure (Documentary)

Find Guest’s work:

https://www.rhodesperry.com/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Catherine Altman Morgan is an award-winning career transition expert and business consultant who has been coaching clients and colleagues through job and life transitions for more than 20 years. She is the founder of Point A to Point B Transitions Inc. and the author of This Isn't Working! Evolving the Way We Work to Decrease Stress, Anxiety, and Depression.

Key Takeaways

Be empathetic, use your experience and build trust
Intentionally set up a safe space by providing guidelines like
The details of what’s shared here stay here
No meanness, shaming or blaming
Its okay to get personal
Go into new situations with no expectations
Engage your curiosity
Authenticity is integration of all parts of yourself

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Imagine Belonging by Rhodes Perry

Find Guest’s work:

Catherine Altman Morgan | Official Publisher Page | Simon & Schuster

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Joe Davis is an award-winning spoken word artist and bestselling author who uses poetry to power possibility. Joe is a student and practitioner of Radical Joy, a deep-rooted wellspring of well-being that he cultivates in community through writing, music, theater, and dance. Based in Minneapolis, he tours internationally to join schools, faith spaces, and nonprofits to practice envisioning and embodying a world of collective liberation and human flourishing. Joe holds a Master of Arts degree in Theology of the Arts and also heads a multimedia production company, a soul funk band, and a racial justice education program.

Key Takeaways

Radical joy is getting to the root, depth and fullness of joy which includes the wholeness of human emotions
Art allows us to slow down and move at the pace of relationship
Lead with questions, invitations and vulnerability
The sooner we understand that race work is uncomfortable and that we’re going to mess up sometimes the sooner we can get to repair work
Find your freedom practice: a daily ritual that will help you feel more healed, whole and alive

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Everything, Everywhere, All At Once (movie)

Find Guest’s work:

www.JoeDavisPoetry.com
We Rise Higher: Poems and Prayers for Graduates | Sparkhousegher

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Content warning: This episode discusses abuse and suicide. Please take care as you listen.

Shirley Buck is the author of the internationally best-selling book Sweet Freedom Whispered in My Ear. A dedicated mindset coach specializing in trauma and abuse recovery. Drawing from her own remarkable journey of overcoming years of severe abuse and trauma. In addition to her coaching expertise she is also an energy healer helping individuals find healing and empowerment. Her life’s mission is to inspire and guide others on their path to recovery, resilience and personal transformation.

Key Takeaways

Mindset is everything — it can help you learn, find joy and overcome anxiety, depression or other struggles
Learning how to change your thought process can change your life
When you’re in survival mode, it's difficult to feel and process your emotions. Once you find safety you can process your experiences.
Your identities and your past do not define your value
Take an active role in creating your life by being vulnerable and actively creating your mindset

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

The Law of Attraction by Esther and Jerry Hicks

Find Guest’s work:

https://www.shirleybuck.com/
https://a.co/d/2PTpee2

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Andrew Horning is a former licensed private practice psychotherapist with a Masters degree in clinical work from the University of Michigan. He is trained in EMDR, Mediation and Dispute Resolution, Gottman Couples Counseling, and Brené Brown’s Daring Way. He also hosts a podcast on relationships and coached high school basketball. Drew published his book, Grappling: White Men’s Journey from Fragile to Agile, in May, 2021. He lives in Boulder, CO with his wife of over 20 years, Genny, and their two children.

Key Takeaways

Place, where you grew up or where you live, can significantly shape your identity
Show up open-hearted and curious to the experience of others
Impact is more important to address than intent
The world has been set up to maintain our comfort but it's important to sit with discomfort in order to grow
Be fascinated by the people around you
Maintain your practice of self-compassion through breath, meditation
Authenticity is all about making your words, actions, thoughts and feelings congruent with each other

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

There Are No Bad Parts by Richard Schwartz (book)
Come From Away (musical)

Find Guest’s work:

Hoffman Institute: https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/drew-horning/
Website: https://www.andrewhorning.co/speaking

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Tim Wise is among the nation's most prominent anti-racist educators and authors. He has spent the past 30 years lecturing on matters of racism and racial bias in all 50 states, on over 1,500 college campuses, at hundreds of professional and academic conferences, and to corporate, non-profit, and community groups throughout North America.

He is the author of eight books, including his highly acclaimed memoir, White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son, and his latest essay collection, Dispatches from the Race War. He has contributed essays or chapters to 25 additional volumes, and his writings have appeared in dozens of popular magazines, newspapers, and scholarly journals.

Wise is a frequent commentator on CNN, MSNBC, and NPR, and his speeches have been viewed over 30 million times on various social media platforms.

Wise has served as adjunct faculty at the Smith College School for Social Work and was the 2008 Oliver L. Brown Distinguished Visiting Scholar for Diversity Issues at Washburn University, in Topeka, Kansas. He has served on the advisory boards of the Fisk University Race Relations Institute, the African American Policy Forum, and the National League of Cities' Racial Equity and Leadership Team.

He graduated from Tulane University in 1990 and received anti-racism training from the People's Institute for Survival and Beyond, both in New Orleans. And he is the host of the podcast Speak Out with Tim Wise.

Key Takeaways

Woke is being aware of ongoing systemic injustice and being concerned about altering it
Racism is a systemic force and not about “good” or “bad” people
Building a collaborative space requires constantly checking in with the things you don’t know — ask questions that make space for others’ perspectives
Some of the most radical anti-racism work is listening and supporting the needs of Black people so they can organize and lead
When you mess up, sit with the criticism, acknowledge your wrongdoing, apologize and keep moving forward
Keep holding truth to power so you understand how and why racism works in America today, then you can reconcile with your community
Authenticity is acknowledging that we are all people caught in a bad system: will you change the system or will the system change you?

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

Any work by James Baldwin (books and essays)

Find Guest’s work:

Tim’s website: https://www.speakoutnow.org/speakers/tim-wise

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Season’s Greetings and Season Beginning to all listeners.

Season Beginnings refers to the start of the New Year and what will be the 6th season of the podcast. I am also alluding to the slight change of brand…we will no longer call the show; Incognito the Podcast, but rather; Authenticity Belonging & Community, or ABC for short. And for many of us, our childhoods were filled with learning our ABC’s. These three words - more than anything else - truly define the focus of the show. And thus, it is with a new season beginning that I offer you Season’s Greetings!

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Michael wraps up the 5th season of the podcast with some thoughts around the condition of DEI education in the United States today. He tells of how the pandemic and current political state of affairs has affected his business and that of others attempting to teach and speak out about identity.

Key Takeaways

In 2020 former president Donald Trump labeled any and all discussions of race, slavery or racism as CRT (critical race theory) and subsequently banned them from schools. This is still affecting DEI training and race conversations today.
The floodgates opened after the supreme court struck down affirmative action. Edward Blum is the anti-affirmative action warrior who is filing suits to stop organizations from offering opportunities to historically marginalized groups.
Volatile reactions to diversity and inclusion hurt everyone.
We’re all on the same team.

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Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Eric Grant is the managing partner and financial adviser with Polaris Wealth Management a firm that specializes in insurance, investments and financial advisory services for individuals and businesses. Eric has over 35 years of experience and knowledge in personal and business financial services and is a speaker and lecturer on matters related to personal and business financial planning. He also expresses himself as the host of a two-hour weekly national radio show “The Family Meeting” on WCPT and has been a contributor to various media outlets including Black Enterprise, The Wall Street Journal and WVON Radio. He’s a proud Howard University alumn with a bachelor of business administration degree in finance and insurance. And most importantly a husband and father.

Key Takeaways

What is normal? Why do we accept things the way they are? — the word why is powerful
Collaboration comes from a high level of intellectual curiosity
Avoiding conflict avoids opportunities for understanding
In order to have good friends you have to be a good friend
Authenticity requires indifference to what other people think

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

“Caste” by Isabel Wilkerson (book)
“The Warmth of Other Suns” by Isabel Wilkerson (book)
“The Autobiography of Malcolm X” (book)
“Twisted Melodies” by Kelvin Roston Jr. (play)

Find Guest’s work:

The Family Meeting: https://heartlandsignal.com/programs/the-family-meeting/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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John Noltner is an award winning photographer who is the founder and creator of A Peace of My Mind — a multimedia arts project, created by award-winning photographer John Noltner, that uses portraits and personal stories to bridge divides and encourage dialogue around important issues. Through exhibits, workshops, lectures, on-site studios, and distance learning, A Peace of My Mind leads transformative experiences that help a polarized world rediscover the common humanity that connects us. A gifted storyteller, Noltner has worked on four continents, gathering stories of human courage, grace, and resilience. He has produced projects for national magazines, Fortune 500 companies, and non-profit organizations. A Peace of My Mind reflects his belief that art and storytelling can help individuals, organizations and communities articulate their deepest values and encourage action toward building social capital and community connections.

Key Takeaways

Find the beauty and wisdom in everyone and everywhere
Reduce your filter and amplify the voices of others
Leave space for serendipity — no matter how well we plan the world sometimes has other ideas
When harms don’t get addressed they can never be healed
You don’t have to have it all figured out right now just start moving

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

“Hard Times”by Studs Terkel (book)

Find Guest’s work:

Website: https://apomm.net/
Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/959767/13349345

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Chaazé P. Roberts, LMFT, is a licensed marriage and family therapist who over the last 16 years studied, trained, and worked at The Family Institute, Bette D. Harris Family and Child Clinic at Northwestern University. Mr. Roberts currently still works as a clinical lecturer and supervisor at the Family Institute for the MSMFT program at Northwestern University. Recently, he embarked on a new venture starting his own private practice, CPR Counseling. Mr. Roberts works with families, couples, individuals, adolescents, as well as conducting group therapy. He has a particular passion for and commitment to working with adolescent’s issues and men’s issues, including emerging adult males dealing with the stresses of life transitions. Mr. Roberts has worked clinically with diverse individuals and various combinations of cross-cultural couples and international families – from USA, Poland, Mexico, Colombia, Israel, Ecuador, Jamaica, Venezuela, Nigeria, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Greece, India, Spain, Philippines, Zimbabwe, France, Suriname and Pakistan, to name a few. He has a particular interest working with people of the African American community of which he is from.

Key Takeaways

Venture into the unknown and create something from nothing
Growth occurs when you step into discomfort
Be open, be honest, be vulnerable so you can heal
Drumming and music brings us together encourages engagement
None but ourselves can free our minds

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

“Redemption Song” by Bob Marley (song)

Find Guest’s work:

Profile: https://mft.northwestern.edu/online-mft/leadership-faculty/chaaze-p-roberts/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Greg Moisio is a longtime Waukegan resident, a father of three daughters, a graduate of Waukegan East and a graduate of the University of Illinois Champaign. He holds a masters degree in education leadership from Aurora University. He is a retired educator from the Waukegan school district with 34 years of service as a football coach, a basketball coach, a baseball coach, and a powerlifting coach. He is on the board of directors of the Illinois High School Powerlifting Association and he is also a retired 3rd ward Alderman in the city of Waukegan for 20 years where he served as the judiciary committee chairman, as the public works committee chairman and the economic development committee chairman.

Key Takeaways

Don’t get stuck in a loop of judging people
Everyone comes with biases but if you slow down and talk to people you can overcome them
Trust comes with time and listening
Don’t flunk reality tests — don’t be hypocritical and meet same standards you set for others

Guest’s Recommendations:

“Influencer” by Patterson et al (book)
Powerlifting (sport)

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Kevin Chan Bradley is the Vice President, Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Community for HUB International. Joining the organization in 2021, oversees the company’s overarching DEI strategy and provides coaching and consultation to ensure the execution of the strategy on all levels or the organization. Mr. Bradley is a seasoned Diversity & Inclusion practitioner with over 30 years in Human Resources. He has been a recruiter, business partner, EEO/AA Compliance leader and D&I leader. Bradley has worked in various industries including manufacturing, aerospace, fast food, and financial services. He is often asked to speak at events on the topic of diversity as a business driver and has received recognition for his work in advocating for diverse communities. He currently serves as Board Chair for Access Living, a nationally renowned disability advocacy organization. He also serves on the Board of Directors for the Parents’ Alliance Employment Project an organization that finds gainful employment for individuals with disabilities and serves on the Board of Directors for the Chicago Philharmonic. He has been asked to serve on the Chicago advisory committee for St. Jude Children’s Hospital and is on the DEI Advisory Committee for his fraternity, Tau Kappa Epsilon.

Key Takeaways

Allyship must be an action, don’t be a bystander — speak up
Assess your environment and adjust your response accordingly
Meet people where they are
Diversity is about counting heads and diversity is about making heads count
When discussing DEI at companies speak to their heads, hearts and wallets

Guest’s Media Recommendations:

“The Medici Effect: Breakthrough Insights at the Intersection of Ideas, Concepts, and Cultures” by Frans Johansson (book)

Find Guest’s work:

Access Living: https://www.accessliving.org/newsroom/teammember/kevin-bradley/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Ed Thomson is the founder and CEO of Uptimize the leading neuro-inclusion training company whose mission is to help organizations embrace and leverage every type of thinker. Born and raised in London and educated at the University of Oxford, Ed founded Uptimize in 2016 recognizing the urgent need for greater understanding and appreciation of neurodiversity within the working world. His role with Uptimize has afforded him unique insights and connections with pioneers in the neurodiversity at work field across the world. And he is now a frequent speaker on the topic. He and Uptimize have been featured by outlets including LinkedIn, BBC, People Management magazine, HR.com and the Financial Times. Ed is the author of the recently released book titled A Hidden Force: Unlocking the Potential of Neurodiversity at Work.

Key Takeaways

Combining a social mission and a business approach creates good outcomes
Helping other people is the key to happiness
Everyone processes information differently — everyone has a different brain
Bring people back to the mission
Processes, people and technology can be exclusive if not used intentionally

Ed’s Media Recommendations:

“The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership” by Bill Walsh (book)

Find Ed’s work:

Uptimize: https://uptimize.com/
A Hidden Force: https://uptimize.com/a-hidden-force/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify. Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Content warning: Please note this episode includes a brief discussion of gun violence at minute 16 and minute 19. Take care as you listen.

On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Laura Coe. Laura was born in Chicago and found her calling in philosophy, which she studied at Brandeis as well as in graduate school at Tufts University. After realizing she didn’t want to pursue academia, she went on to become a healthcare tech entrepreneur.

When Laura came across the Akashic Records — a way to systematically deepen the connection to your authentic voice — she found that the wisdom of the Records changed the trajectory of her work, and she used it to author The Nature of series and to found The Little Soul School. Her writing has been featured in Forbes, The Huffington Post, Inc., Through Catalog, The New York Observer, and more.

Key Takeaways:

Own your identity, but know you’re not your labels
Find a balance between authentic passion and success
Sustained long-term happiness comes from a connection to self and something bigger than self
We are all interconnected
You are not your thoughts, your brain is just one tool at your disposal

Laura’s Media Recommendations:

The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle (book)
The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom by Don Miguel Ruiz (book)
Spiritual teacher Adyashanti (author)

Find Laura’s work:

Laura’s website: https://lauracoe.com/
The Art of Authenticity: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-art-of-authenticity/id1078757977

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify. Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Billy Daniel, an episcopal priest and rector at Church of the Ascension in Knoxville Tennessee. Billy received his PhD in theology from the University of Nottingham, England and is the author of Inhabited by Grace and Christ the Liturgy. Billy has taught undergraduate and graduate courses in theology, ethics and the humanities and is the co-creator of Spiritus Knox, a center for spiritual practice and learning in Knoxville. He is currently working on a book of meditations and prayers on the matter of “Becoming,” as well as developing curriculum and retreat programs to help people develop skills and dispositions that enable them to thrive and flourish as humans in a world that is hungry for authenticity.

Key Takeaways:

External identity markers can cause questions or open conversations
Unifying people is a work in progress
Name a need, then brainstorm and collaborate a solution
Own your stuff
Authenticity is being whole, with yourself, with your community, with your environment

Billy’s Media Recommendations:

Living Presence: A Sufi Way to Mindfulness & the Essential Self by Kabir Helminski (book)

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Mark Wynn! Mark is a former police officer and consultant for the justice department. He served as an officer in Nashville for 21 years and worked to create the largest police domestic violence investigative unit in the United States. He trains professionals, from executives to officers to social workers and more, on how to address domestic violence in their work. Recently he was featured in the documentary “This Is Where I Learned Not to Sleep” about his life and his work.

Key Takeaways:

The system needs to be reminded what civil rights are all about
Things are getting better but you need to stay vigilant
Smart people learn from their mistakes, intelligent people learn from others’ mistakes too
Our world is filled with survivors and we need to start talking out loud about it
Ask for help, move away from misery

Find Mark’s work:

This Is Where I Learned Not to Sleep: https://www.thisiswherefilm.com/ (documentary)

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Emma Yarger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Henry Davis! Henry is a professional filmmaker, movement instructor, and the executive director of Love Bolt, a grassroots effort to spark organic friendships across racial and socio-economic barriers. In this conversation, Michael and Henry discuss the importance of learning about your community and its history, having curiosity for the stories and experiences of others, and getting comfortable stepping outside of your comfort zone in service of personal growth. Henry shares both his and Love Bolt’s mission to encourage people to connect over shared passions, interests, and character instead of proximity or shared background alone.

Key Takeaways:

Learn about your community and its history
Ask yourself: How do I make every day a meaningful one?
Step outside of yourself and ask questions of others
Take every opportunity to connect over shared interests instead of proximity
Get comfortable being uncomfortable - it’s where learning takes place
Suppression leads to depression, and the opposite of depression is expression

Henry’s Media Recommendations:

Incognito by Michael Fosberg (play)
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee (book)
Bryan Stevenson (author)

Find Henry’s work

Lovebolt’s website: https://lovebolt.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews David O’Donnell! David is a design strategist and researcher with over 25 years of experience in innovation consulting and the field of design thinking. He holds a Masters in Urban Planning and Public Policy, is a member of the Sonder Collective, an international cooperative of designers based in the US, the EU and several African countries, and runs a small strategy consulting business called Post Normal, which works on energy transition and public health projects for nonprofits and government agencies. In this episode, Michael and David discuss what it means for workplaces to have a culture that matches their core values, the importance of sustained time to build trust and community, and how to make people feel heard. David offers his insight that if you want to change something, you must take a tangible first step and be open to input.

Key Takeaways:

Core values must match culture
Sustained time is the root of connection and understanding
Get everyone involved in conversations about improving the workplace
You don’t need a perfect plan to start making changes
Move from a culture of EEMP (email, email, meeting, powerpoint) to one of creativity and collaboration
Have fewer meetings and make them worth people’s time

David’s Media Recommendations:

The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow (book)
An Immense World by Ed Yong (book)

Find David’s work

Sonder Collective website: https://www.sonderdesign.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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S4 Ep 8: Giving Gifts to Others | Dionna Griffin-Irons

On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Dionna Griffin-Irons! Dionna is the longtime former Director of Diversity Talent, Inclusion, and Development for the world's largest comedy theater, The Second City. A multi-faceted producer, writer-alumni, and fierce advocate for DIB, she's used her twenty-year expertise in the industry to bring transformation and results to large corporations, not for profit organizations, colleges, universities, and small companies seeking to innovate, and build inclusive teams, and/or create progressive strategies in their new anti-racism mission values. In this episode, Michael and Dionna share what they’ve gained from their many years in the DEI space including the importance of unapologetically using your voice, giving gifts to those around you, and using awareness to cultivate compassion. Additionally, Dionna reminds us all that the first step towards feeling seen by others is to see yourself.

Key Takeaways:

We’re all the same, only different
Focus on building and proactively improving community
First take care of self
Give gifts to those around you
Awareness cultivates compassion
Expect the unexpected

Dionna’s Media Recommendations:

Toni Morrison (author)
Roxane Gay (author)

Find Dionna’s work

Dionna’s website: https://dionnagriffinirons.com/home/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Audrey Francis! Audrey serves as the Artistic Director of Steppenwolf Theatre, alongside Glenn Davis, where she has been an Ensemble member since 2017. She is an actor, director, educator, and coach, as well as the co-founder of Black Box Acting. In this interview, Michael and Audrey discuss the importance of embracing your imperfections, especially in positions of leadership, prioritizing shared values over outcomes, and facing challenges with a spirit of joy and curiosity. Audrey shares her incredible philosophy of what it means to trust the person that you are and how this trust will allow you to be fearless.

Key Takeaways:

Embrace your imperfections
We’re building eulogies, not resumes - everyone needs to relax
Face challenges with a spirit of curiosity, joy, and fearlessness
Have conversations about shared values in your workplace - excellence is achieved by honoring these values, not disregarding them
Take the time to learn people’s names, genuinely ask them how they are, and listen when they tell you
Ask: do I trust myself?

Audrey’s Media Recommendations:

Physical 100 (Netflix)

Find Audrey’s work

Steppenwolf Theatre: https://www.steppenwolf.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Ellie Krug! Ellie is a former civil lawyer and current national inclusivity trainer/speaker, author, radio host, and transgender rights activist based in Minnesota. In this conversation, Michael and Ellie discuss what it means to show up as you are, to practice compassion for yourself and others, and how the foundation of diversity and inclusion work is combatting the fear people have of “other.” Ellie shares the four commonalities of all people and how this can be used as a jumping off point for connection.

Key Takeaways:

Show up as yourself, whoever you are
Practice gray area thinking - have compassion for others and yourself
Ask yourself: am I trying my best under current circumstances? If yes, that has to be good enough
Diversity and inclusion is about getting past the fear of other
We all have four commonalities: everyone wants the children in their life to succeed, everyone wants to be free of physical/emotional violence, everyone wants twenty minutes of peace, everyone wants to love and be loved

Ellie’s Media Recommendations:

Machaela Cavanaugh, Nebraska State Senator
@MomsforSocialJustice (Twitter)
“The Great Land Robbery” by Van R. Newkirk II (Atlantic article, September 2019)

Find Ellie’s work

Ellie’s Website: https://elliekrug.com/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Dr. Monica Cox! Dr. Cox is a change agent, disruptor, and trailblazer, as well as a Distinguished Professor of Engineering at The Ohio State University, the CEO of STEMinent, and an authenticity coach/DEI practitioner. In this episode, Michael and Dr. Cox discuss the burden of leadership, the need to speak up against the status quo, and the importance of continuing to move towards progress, even when no one follows you. Dr. Cox offers her take on what it means to be authentic and shares what she's learned from her many years of paving the way for those who come after her.

Key Takeaways:

There may be costs to speaking up, but it is critical that we do it anyway
The higher up you are, the more responsibility you have to do DEI work with your organization
Move towards progress even if no one follows you
Trust yourself and find accomplices
Ask: how can I support you?

Dr. Cox's Media Recommendations:

The Hunger Games Series (films)

Find Dr. Cox's work

Dr. Cox's Website: https://www.drmonicacox.com/
Dr. Cox's Instagram: @drmonicacox

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Janeane Bernstein! Janeane is a journalist, mental health advocate, radio host/producer with KUCI 88.9fm, and creator of the mental health podcast and event series, OUTSIDE THE BOX. She is a 2021 Age Boom Academy Fellow with the Robert N. Butler Columbia Aging Centerin partnership with Columbia Journalism and the author of GET THE FUNK OUT, %^&* Happens, What to Do Next!, published in 2019. In this episode, Janeane and Michael discuss the importance of being of service to others and how we can remedy the lack of kindness and connection we see in our world today. Janeane shares her philosophy that mental health is the foundation for everything else in life and, thus, must always come first.

Key Takeaways:

Ask yourself: how can I be of service to others?
Be kind – even small acts of kindness make a difference
Ask people questions to find out who they are and what they need
Mental health is always the top priority
People need to feel heard to feel valued
If you can’t be authentic with the people around you, find new people

Janeane’s Media Recommendations:

The Hustle (film)

Find Janeane’s work

Janeane’s website: https://janeanebernstein.com/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Katie Remington! Katie is the Research Director for the Minnesota Justice Research Center where she leads MNJRC’s efforts to engage in participatory and collaborative community-led research on topics including the criminal legal system, youth development, and education. In this episode, Katie and Michael discuss the need to address your own limitations and biases in order to better understand others and the critical role that shared experiences play in forging connections between people of different identities. Katie shares her biggest takeaways from her many years of research, including the importance of valuing the contributions of others as much as, or even more than, your own.

Key Takeaways:

Addressing our biases directly helps us better understand those around us
Don’t be afraid to ask questions
Shared experiences are the bridge between different identities – seek these out!
Give people the space to talk about themselves
Value the contributions of others

Katie’s Media Recommendations:

This Is Where I Am: A Memoir by Zeke Caligiuri (Book)

Find Katie’s work

Minnesota Justice Research Center’s website: https://www.mnjrc.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Juan Acosta! Juan is a mental health advocate, activist, and author, whose advocacy work began in his hometown of Woodland, California at age 13. Since then, Juan’s work has focused on underserved communities, specifically the LGBTQ+, Immigrant, and Latinx community, and has impacted not only communities in California, but across the country and world. In this episode, Michael and Juan discuss the importance of making change at a local level, always keeping in mind the “why” when doing work in your community, and prioritizing collaboration in the pursuit of positive change. Additionally, Juan shares the critical role that acting with intentionality and respect plays in creating a foundation for bringing people together.

Key Takeaways:

Start with change at the community level
Remember why you are doing the work
Collaboration is crucial - allowing everyone’s voice to be heard yields the best results
Make spaces safe through actions, not words alone
Show up as you are - have respect for everyone

Juan’s Media Recommendations:

Healing: Our Path from Mental Illness to Mental Health by Dr. Thomas Insel (Book)

Find Juan’s work

Juan’s website: https://www.juanacostaofficial.com/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Welcome back to another season of INCOGNITO the podcast! In the first episode of Season 4, Michael offers his thoughts on the challenging political conflicts we are facing today, including book bans, censorship of Black history, policies threatening LGBTQ+ rights, and more. Michael shares his insight into navigating these divides, and reminds listeners to focus on making connections with others, instead of finding differences, in order to create a more inclusive society.

Key Takeaways:

We have more in common than not: focus on making connections with others, not finding differences
Get involved – reach out to your representatives and push them towards positive change, or thank them for the work they’re doing!
We all have different perspectives, but we can’t let that get the best of us: check yourself and keep an open mind

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Become a sponsor! Do you have a company or work for a company who may be interested in sponsoring our podcast? Email us at info@incognitotheplay.com and we would be happy to discuss a sponsorship deal.
Share your suggestions! Do you know someone who would be a great guest on our show? Is there a topic you would like us to discuss? Let us know at info@incognitotheplay.com
Follow us on Instagram! Keep up with our work and updates about the podcast by following us @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Steven Sapp and Mildred Ruiz-Sapp! Steven and Mildred are the founders and directors of UNIVERSES, a national Ensemble Theater Company of multi-disciplined writers and performers of color, who fuse theater, poetry, dance, jazz, hip hop, politics, down home blues and Spanish boleros to create moving, challenging and entertaining works for the stage. In this episode, Steven and Mildred talk to Michael about their experiences creating art with others and the importance of lifting every person’s voice in this pursuit, even if they cannot do it themselves. Steven and Mildred share their philosophy of treating everyone in a rehearsal room how they want to be treated and how they were raised to treat others, and the essential truth that everyone always has something to bring to the table.

Key Takeaways

Fight for your identity: it’s up to you how you identify, not others
Treat people the way you want to be treated
Everybody has something to bring to the table
Everyone's voice deserves to be lifted
Whether a person is in the audience or onstage, they are a part of the event

Steven & Mildred’s Media Recommendations:

Use your technology to capture beautiful moments and your elders; save your memories
Dive into your genealogy/family history
Sidney (film) on Apple TV
A Raisin in the Sun (film, 1961)

Find Steven & Mildred’s work:

Universes Website: http://universesonstage.com/index.html

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Larry Thompson! Larry is a lawyer, law professor, and former US Deputy Attorney General under President George W. Bush. In this episode, Michael and Larry discuss the necessity of teamwork, transparency, and a willingness to listen and speak honestly to the cultivation of an inclusive workplace. Larry shares his insight into the incredible benefit of diversity in work environments, both for the employees as well as the company as a whole, and the words he lives by from his mentor Judge Griffin Bell: “there is no limit as to what you can accomplish so long as you don’t care who gets the credit.”

Key Takeaways

There is no “I” in team
Be willing to listen
Be honest
Speak with candor
Be transparent, don’t have a hidden agenda
Make sure everyone is on the same page

Larry’s Media Recommendations:

Georgy Girl (film, 1966)

Find Larry’s work:

University of Georgia, School of Law: https://www.law.uga.edu/profile/larry-d-thompson
Finch McCranie LLP: https://www.finchmccranie.com/larry-d-thompson.html

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Trinity Villanueva! Trinity is an advocate on the intersections of justice, liberation, and creative and artistic spaces. An incredibly multi-talented person, Trinity now serves as a Managing Partner at TOSHA, an organization which partners with the creative industry to cultivate inclusive workplace cultures through mindful leadership practices. In this episode, Michael and Trinity discuss the importance of deciding your identity for yourself, meeting people where they are, and showing up to learn instead of to impress. And, Trinity shares her philosophy when it comes to creating workplaces in which everyone feels they have the opportunity to thrive.

Key Takeaways:

Don’t allow external forces decide who you are
Meet people where they are
Which voices are missing or have been ignored
If you move by yourself you move quickly, but if you move together, you move farther
Sit in discomfort
Validation and ego can cloud our ability to learn

Trinity’s Media Recommendations:

The Set Boundaries Workbook: Practical Exercises for Understanding Your Needs and Setting Healthy Limits (book) by Nedra Glover Tawwab
Lighter: Letting Go of the Past, Connect with the Present and Expand the Future (book) by Yung Pueblo
Heartstopper (TV) on Netflix

Find Trinity’s work

TOSHA: https://www.toshacc.com/team

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Mary Amrita Arden! Mary holds a Master’s degree in public health, is a certified Neuro-Linguistic Programming coach, and, since 1991, has been a teacher and coach at the Hoffman Institute, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to transformative adult education, spiritual growth, and the personal dimensions of leadership. In this episode, Michael and Mary discuss the need to be present, get out of your own way, and surrender to change. It is truly an exploration of what it means to live a fulfilled and connected life by prioritizing introspection and growth above all.

Key Takeaways:

Be present
Notice what needs to shift
Get out of the way
Surrender rather than resist
Question your beliefs
Our brains need to be trained…Praying and meditation are training

Mary’s Media Recommendations:

The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief (book) by Francis Weller and Lichael Lerner

Find Mary’s work

Hoffman Institute: https://www.hoffmaninstitute.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Cecilia B. Loving! Cecilia is the Senior Vice President for Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at PBS, where she is responsible for developing organizational strategy, providing ongoing advice and counsel, and cultivating future partnerships. With over 20 years of experience as a practicing attorney, Cecilia has held various DEI leadership roles for a wide variety of businesses and government agencies, including the New York Fire Department, New York City’s Commission on Human Rights, the Legal Aid Society, and more. In this episode, Michael and Cecilia discuss the essential building blocks of DEI work: finding common ground with those around you, deeply listening to what others have to say, and always taking time to breathe and practice mindfulness.

Key Takeaways:

Be still, listen
Deep listening
Build common ground
Move forward together
Give to self and others
Breathe

Find Cecilia’s work

Cecilia’s Book: Unbroken Circles: Holding Space, Finding Forgiveness and Transcending Edges
Cecilia’s Website: www.mindfulnessgroup.blog

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Toni Wynn! Toni is a museum content curator, DEI speaker, and poet who sees big and small to craft inspired opportunities for engaging and learning. In this episode, Michael and Toni discuss the importance of living in kindness, celebrating the arts, and having compassion towards both ourselves and others, and Toni shares her philosophy of being a kindness cheerleader for those around her.

Key Takeaways:

Live in Kindness
Check in with people
Ask questions
Bring warmth to a space
Care for yourself the way you would care for a loved one
Arts are important

Toni’s Media Recommendations:

Joe Turner’s Come and Gone (play) by August Wilson

Find Toni’s work

Toni’s Website: www.toniwynn.com

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Ronnie Malley! Ronnie is a multi-instrumentalist musician, theatrical performer, producer, and educator, who has collaborated with artists internationally, composed and consulted for many cultural music projects in film and theater, appeared as a guest artist on several works, and is executive director of Intercultural Music Production in Chicago. In this episode, Michael and Ronnie discuss the incredible universality of music, the importance of exploring cultures beyond your own, and using the arts as a means of connection. Ronnie shares stories from his experiences bringing music across the country and world, and his conclusion that Metallica can indeed bring us all together.

Key Takeaways:

Be a person of good conscious
You can see your identity as an obstacle or a way in
Learn someone else’s language
Go beyond the surface
Use the arts to connect

Ronnie’s Media Recommendations:

The Alchemist (book) by Paulo Coelho
The Prophet (book) by Kahlil Gibran
The Mysticism of Sound and Music (book) by Hazrat Inayat Khan
The Ornament of the World (book) by Maria Rosa Menocal
The Outliers (book) by Malcolm Gladwell

Find Ronnie’s work

Ronnie’s Website: www.ronniemalley.com

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Alderman Debra Silverstein! Alderman Silverstein has been the representative of Chicago’s 50th Ward since 2011, working tirelessly to make her neighborhood a better place for the many residents who call it home through both groundbreaking projects and everyday actions. In this episode, Michael and Alderman Silverstein discuss the importance of reaching out to others, opening yourself up to engagement with those in your community, and treating people with the respect and recognition that they deserve. Additionally, Alderman Silverstein shares her strategies for connecting a community by recognizing its diversity as its greatest strength above all.

Key Takeaways:

Listen, but hear as well
Be down to earth, honest, truthful
Don’t wait for folks to come to you
Provide information, have an open door, treat people with respect, and collaborate

Alderman Silverstein’s Media Recommendations:

Schitt’s Creek (TV) on Netflix

Find Alderman Silverstein’s work

Chicago’s 50th Ward: www.50thwardchicago.com

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Angela Ford! Angela is the founder and executive director of The Obsidian Collection Archives, an organization that works to preserve Black historical journalism through digital archiving in hopes of making the historic and factual accounts of Black life in the United States accessible to the public and, in doing so, illuminating Black culture for the world to better see and understand. In this episode, Michael and Angela discuss the importance of being direct and deliberate, exposing oneself everyday to cultures outside of your own, and establishing trust with any community you wish to work with. Angela shares her belief that the majority of people do want to help and be a part of the solution, and discusses the incredible power that comes from harnessing this collective desire for good.

Key Takeaways:

Be direct, be deliberate
Deliberately follow people from other cultures, make it normal
Establish and build trust
People really do want to help AND want to be a part of the solution
Never apologize for being yourself

Angela’s Media Recommendations:

The Spook Who Sat by the Door (book) by Sam Greenlee
The Spook Who Sat by the Door (film) directed by Ivan Dixon

Find Angela’s work

The Obsidian Collection website: www.theobsidiancollection.org

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Welcome back to another season of INCOGNITO the podcast! In the first episode of Season 3, I not only tell the story of how this podcast came to be, but also reflect on the many fantastic tools and practices towards creating a more diverse and inclusive society that guests have shared with me and INCOGNITO listeners throughout the first two seasons. I offer my pitch for why people should listen to INCOGNITO, and discuss the ways in which this podcast can offer valuable strategies and insight to listeners from all walks of life.

Key Takeaways:

Everyone has a role to play in creating a more diverse and inclusive society
We have so much to learn from those who are doing the important work of diversity and inclusion in their workplaces and communities as a part of their leadership
Find the strategies and techniques that resonate with you and allow them to inform how you engage with others

If you want to support INCOGNITO the podcast, here are some things you can do:

Rate and review the podcast! We rely on ratings and reviews to help others discover INCOGNITO, so please take a minute to leave a rating if you can.
Become a sponsor! Do you have a company or work for a company who may be interested in sponsoring our podcast? Email us at info@incognitotheplay.com and we would be happy to discuss a sponsorship deal.
Share your suggestions! Do you know someone who would be a great guest on our show? Is there a topic you would like us to discuss? Let us know at info@incognitotheplay.com
Follow us on Instagram! Keep up with our work and updates about the podcast by following us @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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We have reached the end of season 2 of INCOGNITO the podcast! Thank you to everyone who has listened, left reviews, and shared with others; we have been so excited to see the response to the podcast so far, and hope to keep bringing you helpful insight and tools towards creating a more inclusive society next season. For the final episode of our second season, I reflect on the many incredible contributions this season’s guests have made in the exploration of identity and authenticity, and share my own thoughts and reflections about what it means to understand one’s own identity and the unique journeys we must all go on to reach this point.

Key Takeaways:

We are either open to the journey of identity and welcome the discoveries or we are closed to it and make it much more difficult
“The goal of the hero’s journey is yourself. Finding yourself.”
Each of us come to understand our identities differently; we may share things with others but everyone arrives at their own unique identity in their own way
The journey of identity is continuous and fluid; the question is how do we share this with people around us, especially in regard to the workplace?
The more we feel included in our workplace, the more fulfilling a job is and the better people perform
Set necessary boundaries with others
People bringing their whole selves to work, particularly in a diverse workplace, is beneficial at every level
Ask questions!

INCOGNITO the podcast will return after the New Year with more exciting episodes, so please subscribe and be on the lookout! Here are 5 things you can do in the meantime:

Buy a book! Incognito: An American Odyssey of Race and Self Discovery and Nobody Wants To Talk About It are available for purchase at incognitotheplay.com/publications or on Amazon. Those who purchase a book from our website will receive a signed copy.
Share the podcast with 5 friends! Ask those friends to share with 5 of their friends. Our audience growth relies on your help.
Become a sponsor! Do you have a company or work for a company who may be interested in sponsoring our podcast? Email us at info@incognitotheplay.com and we would be happy to discuss a sponsorship deal.
Share your suggestions! Do you know someone who would be a great guest on our show? Is there a topic you would like us to discuss? Let us know at info@incognitotheplay.com
Follow us on Instagram! Keep up with our work and updates about the podcast by following us @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

Incognito: An American Odyssey of Race and Self-Discovery

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Bessie Alcantara! Bessie is the executive director of Alternatives Inc, a nonprofit organization based in Chicago that inspires young people to create a just future through practices that heal individuals, restore communities, and transform systems. In this episode, Michael and Bessie discuss the importance of accountability and transparency in a workplace, inviting ownership of work and mission, and the incredible clarity that understanding the values of yourself and others can bring. Bessie shares the necessity for living in a way that is true to your values, whatever those may be, and how self-awareness around these values leads to authenticity.

Key Takeaways:

How do you define yourself?
Restorative Justice promotes healing for all
Treat people as human, as people
BUILD relationships
Ask for accountability without creating harm
Offer honesty, be direct and invite ownership
Listen, respond and follow-through
Look for shared values

Bessie’s Media Recommendations:

The Woman King (movie)

Find Bessie’s work

Alternatives website: https://alternativesyouth.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Josie Whittlesey! Josie is the executive director of Drama Club Inc, a nonprofit organization that cares for youth, particularly those who are incarcerated and court-involved, by creating space for them to thrive, using improv as their guide. Through the use of play, storytelling, and role playing, Drama Club’s programs help young people to develop prosocial bonds, executive functioning skills, empathy, and imagination. In this conversation, Josie and Michael talk about the importance of play as a means of creating safe spaces, the necessity for consistency and persistence when it comes to this kind of work, and the reason that one of the best tools we have towards creating a more inclusive and just society is proximity.

Key Takeaways:

PLAY…is the best way to build trust
Storytelling
In America, white people don’t have to think about being “the other”
Show up consistently (be reliable)
Be persistent (low and slow)
Act without ulterior motives (wanting power or to be liked)
Proximity is everything

Josie’s Media Recommendations:

A Strange Loop by Michael R. Jackson currently running on Broadway at the Lyceum Theatre (musical)

Find Josie’s work

Drama club website: https://www.dramaclub.org/

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Andre Watson! Andre is the Assistant Director for National Security under Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), the principal investigative component of the Department of Homeland Security. In this interview, Michael and Andre discuss the nuances of navigating Andre’s various identities both in and outside of the workplace, what it means to foster strong relationships in the workplace based on mutual respect and curiosity, and the importance of aligning opportunities with individual passions wherever possible. Andre and Michael discuss what it means to be called to leadership and the truth proven time and again that we have more in common than not.

Key Takeaways:

Never ask someone to do something you haven’t done or wouldn’t be willing to do
Leverage opportunities as a means of improving connections
We have more in common than not
Learning about someone’s passions and experiences makes us better leaders
Building strong relationships is crucial to leadership
Align opportunities with passion (where possible) to increase the likelihood of success
The character of a person must match the calling of leadership
Four tips: 1) patience 2) open mind 3) willingness to listen 4) seek support

Andre’s Media Recommendations:

True North: Discover Your Authentic Leadership by Bill George and Peter Eagle Sims (Book)
Leadership Promises for Everyday by John C. Maxwell (Book)

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Dr. Kimberly Narain! Dr. Narain completed her residency in Primary Care Internal Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. Following fellowships at Harvard Medical School and UCLA, Dr. Narain served as a Specialty Training Advanced Research Fellow in the Department of General Internal Medicine & Health Services Research at UCLA, where she later earned a Ph.D. in Health Services from the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health, and is now an Assistant Professor In-Residence at the UCLA School of Medicine. In this conversation, Michael and Dr. Narain discuss the importance of creating work environments in which everyone can contribute, seeing yourself as in relationships of mutual benefit with others as opposed to in competition with them, and looking for the win-win in every situation. Dr. Narain shares what inspired her to write her new book, The Cycle of a Dream: A Kid’s Introduction to Structural Racism in America, and the many benefits of seeking out different perspectives and untold stories at all ages.

Key Takeaways:

Everyone has something to contribute when under the right circumstances
Practice humility; think of others first
Don’t be wedded to the strategy, be wedded to the goal
Stop seeing yourself in competition with others, remove hierarchy
Ask: What’s missing, can I help?
Appreciate people’s time
Lead with self-reflection instead of blame
Look for the win-win: setting aside oneself to serve others will ultimately benefit everyone
Seek out different perspectives, look for untold stories
Start small

Dr. Narain’s Media Recommendations:

The Ezra Klein Show, “We Build Civilizations on Status. But We Barely Understand It.” (Podcast)

Find Dr. Narain’s work

Dr. Narain’s book: The Cycle of a Dream: A Kid’s Introduction to Structural Racism in America

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Illinois State Representative Theresa Mah. Representative Mah made history in 2016 when she became the first Asian American elected to serve in the Illinois General Assembly. She is a former college professor with a Ph.D. in modern American history and teaching experience in history, ethnic studies, and Asian American studies. Throughout Representative Mah’s time in public service, she has worked with advocacy groups on a variety of issues such as immigrant rights, workers rights, voting rights, language access, and health care. In this interview, Michael and Representative Mah discuss her journey to becoming a state representative and the barriers she faced in getting elected, what it means to truly listen to and champion the voices of the community you serve, and the importance of reaching down to pull others up alongside you every step of the way.

Key Takeaways:

Be present and listen
Step outside your privilege
Reach down to pull others up
Invite people to have space to contribute
Magnify people’s voices

Representative Mah's Media Recommendations:

Panchinko by Min Jin Lee

Find Representative Mah's work

www.reptheresamah.com

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Jamie Price, the Executive Director of the Sargent Shriver Peace Institute (SSPI) and author of the new book, Spiritualizing Politics without Politicizing Religion: The Example of Sargent Shriver. In addition to his work with SSPI, Jamie holds several academic posts, including research professor and Founding Director of the Insight Conflict Resolution program in the School of Conflict Analysis and Resolution at George Mason University, and affiliate professor in the Mediterranean Academy of Diplomatic Studies at the University of Malta. In this interview, Michael and Jamie discuss the deep place from which one must approach public service, the importance of seeking to understand how someone is using their mind as opposed to trying to change it, and the simple truth that we all as people have much more in common than not. Jamie shares what his study of and work with Sargent Shriver and the SSPI have taught him not only about conflict resolution and leadership, but also the need for spiritual realism and self-transcendence in today’s divisive political climate.

Key Takeaways:

We are here because we are connected
Nurture spontaneous interest in being compassionate and serving one another
Encounter people on their own terms
Ask: What do you need? How can I help?
Spirit pulls us toward what is good and true
How do you pay attention to that deep place?
Reject the notion that we have to be polarized

Jeff’s Media Recommendations:

Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders (Audiobook)
Rectify (TV Series)

Find Jamie’s work

Jamie’s Book: Spiritualizing Politics without Politicizing Religion: The Example of Sargent Shriver
Sargent Shriver Peace Institute

For more of Michael’s work, visit our website www.incognitotheplay.com or follow us on Instagram @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews Randy Ryan! Since leaving the military, Randy has been working with underserved communities as a means of continuing his service to the nation as a civilian. Randy led the Teaching Gardens program for the American Heart Association, growing it to include over 500 schools nationally, and now serves as the Manager of the California Initiative for the Farmer Veteran Coalition (FVC), whose mission it is to mobilize military veterans to feed America. In this conversation, Randy and Michael discuss the power of healing others to heal oneself, the necessity of serving your community in a meaningful way, and the importance of exposing yourself to new ideas and cultures. Randy shares his insight as to what it means to be an engaged citizen and leader, and the deep connection he has found between authenticity and personal growth.

Key Takeaways:

There is no better way to heal than to to heal others
Do MORE than vote…serve your community!
Get outside of your community and expose yourself to other ideas and cultures
Build trust
Authenticity is growth

Randy’s Media Recommendations:

Everybody Pays by Maurice Possley and Rick Kogan

Incognito the podcast is now on Instagram! Follow us @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, Michael interviews E. Patrick Johnson! E. Patrick is the Dean of the School of Communication and Annenberg University Professor at Northwestern University, as well as a prolific performer, scholar, and author, and a 2020 inductee into the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. In this episode, Michael and E. Patrick discuss the necessity of expressing grace towards others and leading with integrity, particularly when it comes to uniting people across a variety of identities. E. Patrick shares his technique of radical listening and holding space for others to fill as a means of seeing people in their entirety and moving closer towards understanding them.

Key Takeaways:

Express grace
Race is a fiction, racism is not
Try not to think about how identity might be an obstacle and instead focus on task at hand
Lead with integrity
Ask
Practice radical listening and listening with compassion
Everybody has a story to tell, but they don’t always get a chance to tell it
Hold the space
Bring your full self to every context
Recognize the value of people who serve others

E. Patrick’s Media Recommendations:

A Strange Loop by Michael R. Jackson currently running on Broadway at the Lyceum Theatre (musical): https://strangeloopmusical.com/

Find E. Patrick’s work

E. Patrick’s Website: https://epatrickjohnson.com
E. Patrick’s Published Works: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=e.+patrick+johnson&crid=ZAG9II36I263&sprefix=E.+Patrick%2Caps%2C100&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_10

Incognito the podcast is now on Instagram! Follow us @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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On the first episode of Season 2, Michael talks with Emmy-winning actor and meditation teacher Jeff Kober. Michael and Jeff discuss what it means to bring your whole self to every space, how to treat yourself and others with kindness and compassion, and the importance of recognizing our universal connection of love by fighting for the good instead of against the bad. In this interview, Jeff shares stories and observations from his own life that have led him to key insights about what it means to live and work alongside people who you may disagree with, but nevertheless respect and value as fellow human beings.

Key Takeaways:

Look to give rather than to get
Keep your side of the street clean
Your opinions are the least interesting thing about you
Everyone is doing their very best at every moment
If I attack someone, the only thing they can do is defend
I am something other than my thoughts and feelings
How do we fight from a loving place?

Jeff’s Media Recommendations:

Apprenticed to a Himalayan Master: A Yogi’s Autobiography by Sri M (Book)
Both Sides Now sung by Joni Mitchell & Brandi Carlile (Video)

Find Jeff’s work

Jeff’s Website: www.jeff-kober.com
Jeff’s Book: Embracing Bliss: 108 Daily Meditations
Jeff’s Podcast: Embracing Bliss with Jeff Kober

EXCITING ANNOUNCEMENT: Incognito the podcast is now on Instagram! Follow us @incognitotheplay

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Nina Kissinger.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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We have reached 10 episodes of INCOGNITO the podcast! Thank you to everyone who has listened, left reviews, and shared with others; we jumped in to make this podcast and were so pleased by the response. For the final episode of our first season, I reflect more on my work with individuals and organizations across the country and share in-depth the Seven Tools I have developed to help people have more authentic conversations. I hope these tools bring you reflection and value in the work to create a more inclusive society.

Tell your story. Open up and listen.
Don’t judge the differences. Start by finding a mutual interest, then embrace the differences.
Recognize there isn’t any one way to have a conversation about identity and race.
We can disagree, so long as we’re not disagreeable. Take responsibility for the language we use.
Get comfortable being uncomfortable.
Understand there are realities outside your own experience. Listen with empathy.
Practice forgiveness. It has been described as the hardest work you will ever do, but the most rewarding.

INCOGNITO the podcast will return after Labor Day with more exciting episodes, so please subscribe and be on the lookout! Here are 4 things you can do in the meantime:

Buy a book! Incognito: An American Odyssey of Race and Self Discovery and Nobody Wants To Talk About It are available for purchase at incognitotheplay.com/publications or on Amazon. Those who purchase a book from our website will receive a signed copy.
Share the podcast with 5 friends! Ask those friends to share with 5 of their friends. Our audience growth relies on your help.
Become a sponsor! Do you have a company or work for a company who may be interested in sponsoring our podcast? Email us at info@incognitotheplay.com and we would be happy to discuss a sponsorship deal.
Share your suggestions! Do you know someone who would be a great guest on our show? Is there a topic you would like us to discuss? Let us know at info@incognitotheplay.com

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify. Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar. Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Our next guest on INCOGNITO the podcast is Quinton Alston-Spratt! Quinton is Head of Advisor Practice Management at Franklin Templeton, as well as a Diversity & Inclusion leader within the company working to bring employees together. Quinton’s process focused approach helps people have better conversations and thus, better relationships. Michael and Quinton discuss his growth in the financial services sector, the challenges of stereotype threat, the importance of multiplying your impact, and much more.

Suggested tools:

-When your purpose becomes bigger than you, obstacles can become opportunities

-Be aware of moments of mistrust or conflict and address them upfront

-Don’t take things personally - it’s not about you, it’s about the other person’s perceptions

-Asking questions allows you to be in control while making the person on the other end feel like they are in control; show people how much you know through the quality of your questions

-Questions also drive intimacy and bring people along with you rather than them feeling pushed along

-Building relationships starts with being intentional and approaching with purpose

-Start by figuring out your “why”: once you know your “why” for what you are doing, look for people who align with that

-Create safety: remove titles & remove judgment (of yourself, other people, and your thoughts)

-Acknowledgements are key to creating space for questions - show people that you heard them and that you are seeking understanding

-Authenticity stems from self-acceptance; opportunity lies on the other side of your comfort zone

Quinton’s Book Recommendation:

The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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In this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, we speak with Willa Taylor! Willa has a fascinating background and is currently the Walter Director of Education and Engagement at The Goodman Theatre where she has developed many exciting new programs such as InterGens, the August Wilson Youth Intensive, and Stage Chemistry. She is an adjunct faculty member at DePaul University and is recognized nationally as a storyteller and workshop facilitator on a number of theatrical and educational topics. Willa and I discuss both her successful and challenging experiences as a theater educator, the complexities in showing up as your full self, and the transformative power of stories.

Suggested tools:

-Find ways to interrupt the assumptions

-Sometimes you have to get out of the way of the mutual benefits of an alliance

-Create a safe space to talk

-Share stories and allow yourself to be changed by them

-Show up for others, not asking anything of them

-Finding and bringing your authentic self to different spaces is a work in progress

-Ask what is needed

-Share a meal; food can allow space for sharing culture and stories with people different from you

Willa’s Media Recommendations:

Teaching to Transgress: Education as the Practice of Freedom by Bell Hooks (Book)

Coda by Sian Heder,2021 (Movie)

West Side Story adapted by Tony Kushner and Steven Spielberg, 2021 (Movie)

How to Catch Creation by Christina Anderson (Play)

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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This episode of INCOGNITO the podcast features Steve Edwards! Steve is an award-winning journalist, interviewer, and radio host whose work has appeared on numerous radio stations across the country. He was the Executive Director at The University of Chicago’s Institute of Politics, and is the current Managing Director at Koya Partners, identifying and strengthening leaders across the civic and nonprofit sectors. Steve and I discuss the developments in his career as a journalist, how to connect with others through asking questions, and why it is so important to truly listen to others to find the things that fundamentally unite us as humans.

Suggested tools:

-Be more interested in questions rather than answers, the “why” and “how”

-Ask yourself how you are showing up: Am I learning? Am I listening? Am I creating space?

-The generous act of listening is a full body experience, versus the sense of hearing

-Ask open-ended questions to invite someone to share and find connections to shared human experiences

-”When we become fearful we cease to become curious, when we become aggressive and argumentative we often become righteous and we stop learning”

-Difficult cycles are not broken with accumulations of more power, they are only broken by getting to a space of grace, understanding, and curiosity

Steve’s Media Recommendations:

The Tennis Partner by Abraham Verghese (Book)

Goodnight Oscar by Doug Wright and starring Sean Hayes (Play)

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Our next guest on INCOGNITO the podcast is Scott Lanum! Scott works in the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency as a liaison for the organization to discuss matters of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion and for employees to bring up any issues they encounter. Scott and I discuss his experience working in various parts of the Federal Government, what a model workplace can look like, and how we can all take small risks to make strong connections.

Suggested tools:

-Nobody makes their path by themselves, we need to lean on the help of others

-Show people you care, be there for them

-Create an environment where we can always have conversations; a greater value for diversity will start 1 on 1

-Take small risks with people you don’t know; try to share something beyond how your sports team did or how the weather is and thank people for taking those risks to share

-Showing a little piece of our sincere selves can create connections, shatter stereotypes, and show our common humanity

-We tend to perceive vulnerability as a weakness, but it is a strength that can lead to greater trust and understanding

Scott’s Book Recommendation:

The Founding Fathers on Leadership: Classic Teamwork in Changing Times by Donald T. Phillips

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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In this episode, we talk with Monty Schiro! Monty is the creator of Food Fight Restaurant Group, a locally owned and operated restaurant group in the greater Madison area with a group of unique and diverse restaurants. Here, Monty and I discuss the importance of prioritizing employees, how to provide for your community as a leader, and why the simplicity of truly caring for others is not overrated.

Suggested tools:

-You sometimes learn what to do in life by learning what not to do

-Listen to your employees; Know people’s stories

-Remember that nobody does it alone

-Driving test! Would you be able to take a road trip with someone and look forward to the conversation on the way back? If so, that could be a good person to hire!

-If you say you care about people, be sure to back up your words with actions

-Seek to understand before being understood

-You don’t want to surround yourself with people who just say “yes”, but with people who have the same end-goal

Monty’s Media Recommendations:

On the Brink: Life and Leadership of Norman Brinker by Norman Brinker

Mavericks at Work: Why the Most Original Minds in Work Win by William C. Taylor and Polly G. LaBarre

Good to Great: Why Some Companies make the Leap…and Others Don’t by Jim Collins

Find Monty’s work

Food Fight’s website: www.foodfightinc.com

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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This episode of INCOGNITO the podcast features Julie Daley! Julie is a healer, teacher, and coach guiding people and organizations to a more creative, human way of relating and doing business. In this episode, Julie and I discuss her experience as both a student and teacher at Stanford, her thoughts on facilitating a grounded room, and how to connect with people more deeply.

Suggested Tools:

-Judgment, not discernment, separates

-Come in grounded; humans mirror each other, so bring the attitude and energy that you want mirrored

-Everybody is creative, resourceful, and whole

-Allow people to be heard or felt

-If appropriate, look into the eyes of others; search for similarities and extend an “invitation”

-Being “real” is a process of letting go of all the things you think you are supposed to be

Julie’s Media Recommendations:

The Midnight Library by Matt Haig

The Age of Adaline - Movie, 2015

Find Julie’s work

Julie’s Website: www.Juliedaley.com

Email: julie@juliedaley.com

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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In this episode of INCOGNITO the podcast, we talk with Jason LeVasseur! Jason is a speaker, camp counselor, and creator of The Rock Star Project. In this episode, Jason and I discuss activities to promote authenticity and inclusion, why everybody is a rock star, and how you can be the best band member possible.

Suggested tools:

-Be interested, not interesting

-Show up as yourself

-People are of value, they should matter to you

-Activity:

Write down words (traits) to describe another person,

Then write words (traits) you think others would use to describe you,

Then write words (traits) you would like used to describe you.

Choose three of the words you would like used to describe you

and determine what behaviors you need to exhibit for others to describe you with those traits.

Jason’s Book Recommendation:

Hero on a Mission: A Path to a Meaningful Life by Donald Miller

Find Jason’s work

Jason’s Website: https://jasonlevasseur.com

The Rock Star Project Website: https://jasonlevasseur.wordpress.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonlevasseur/

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

Email info@incognitotheplay.com with questions or comments about the show!

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Our first guest podcast is with Kirsten Kelly! Kirsten is a New York based Emmy-winning documentary filmmaker and producer. In this episode, Kirsten and I discuss her experience as an outsider in college, her work creating documentaries Stranger/Sister and The Homestretch, and the lessons she has learned sharing the stories of others.

Suggested tools:

-Come with your armor down

-Intentional curiosity

-Deep listening

-Play

Kirsten’s Book Recommendation:

Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times by Katherine May

Find Kirsten’s work:

Production Company Website: https://www.spargelproductions.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kirsten.kelly.771

Instagram: @kirstenkellybk

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirsten-kelly-802aa844/

Stranger/Sister: www.strangersister.com

The Homestretch: http://www.homestretchdoc.com/

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

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Welcome to Incognito the Podcast! In this inaugural episode, I share my story of self-discovery. This is the story of the search for my long-lost biological father and how this quest revealed a piece of my identity that changed my life forever. I discuss how this story transformed into my life’s work in the field of diversity, equity, inclusion, and leadership, and how my work has shifted over time.

Connect with me:

Email: info@incognitotheplay.com

Website: www.incognitotheplay.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-fosberg-670b216/

Nobody Wants to Talk About It: Race and the Difficulties in Forging Meaningful Conversations https://incognitotheplay.com/publications/nobody-wants-to-talk-about-it/

Incognito: An American Odyssey of Race and Self Discovery https://incognitotheplay.com/publications/incognito/

Thanks to Ned Doheny for providing our podcast music! You can find him and his music on Spotify.

Editing and co-production of this podcast by Farrah Sklar.

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INCOGNITO the podcast: Recent Episodes

Michael Fosberg