Whit's End: Real People. Hard Questions.: Recent Episodes
Whitney Scarborough
Real conversations with people about life and culture that help us navigate the good but often hard aspects of living out our faith.
In today's episode, we begin by asking the question -- "What do I believe about God, and what does that have to do with my life?"
By laying out some simple but profound theological truths, we build a foundation that affects how we approach God and our understanding of how He engages with us. Using the steps Pray, Read, Observe, Interpret, and Apply, we work through Psalm 34:1-10, a passage that speaks to God's active relationship with us.
Scriptures:
- Daniel 9:18
- Hebrews 4:12
- John 20:31
- Psalm 37:4
- Psalm 34:1-10
In this episode, we’ll focus on Psalms 22 through 24—three powerful chapters that capture the depth of David’s emotions and experiences. These psalms not only reflect his personal journey but also point forward to Christ as the fulfillment of his every prayer and longing. We'll see Jesus foreshadowed as the Righteous Sufferer, the Good Shepherd, and the King of Glory.
To deepen our understanding of these well-known scriptures, we’ll explore related passages throughout the Bible. Along the way, we’ll highlight the all-sufficiency of Christ as we consider the humanity and brokenness of biblical voices—people whose struggles and hopes we can likely relate to.
Scriptures:
- Psalm 22:1, 6-7, 16, 18
- Matthew 27:35-41, 46
- Hebrews 12:3
- Psalm 23:1-6
- John 10:10-15
- 1 Peter 5:4
- 1 Samuel 21:11
- Psalm 24:1, 7-8
- John 1:14
- Revelation 19:16
- Philippians 2:9-11
We begin this episode by looking outside of Psalms to the New Testament. Paul writes from prison in Colossians 3:16, encouraging new believers to grow in spiritual maturity and let the word of Christ dwell in them richly. It's in this plea, as well as multiple other passages across scripture, that we see a collective urgency to treasure the scriptures in our hearts.
Studies show that Christians in North America have more access to the Bible than ever before and yet we know less about God’s Word than we ever have. In this brief episode, we'll look at why it's so crucial to get God's Word into us. We'll also examine the science of our brains and offer practical steps forward. We hope you leave this episode both encouraged and challenged!
Scriptures:
- Deuteronomy 11:18
- Psalm 119:11
- Proverbs 3:1
- Luke 6:45
- Isaiah 26:3
- Psalm 139:14
The Psalms teach us that the people of God are called to corporate worship.
In this episode, we'll gain some insights by looking at the original language of the text. We'll draw specifically from chapters 1-7 to understand what worshiping God looks like in our daily lives. We'll read other parts of the Old Testament to understand the back story behind what compelled David to write such raw and heavy prayers.
Scriptures:
Psalms 1-7
Psalm 3:4
Psalm 4:1
Psalm 4:7
Psalm 5:2-3
Psalm 6:9
Psalm 7:1
2 Samuel 13-19
Join us as we work through the 150 chapters of Psalms over the course of this year! This mini-series will include brief episodes that line up with our in-person Bible study.
In today's episode, we look at how the Psalms have acted as the songbook of the people of God for centuries. They were written by multiple authors over a tumultuous period of Israel's history. We can think of this book as the fusion between a hymnal of worship songs and a refreshingly vulnerable journal. The Psalms teach us that we matter a great deal to God, and also, it's not about us. Both can be true. He's the only One truly worthy of our worship, and yet He proves His intentional love and care for us time and again.
For the full experience, consider purchasing the resource workbook here.
Well, friends, this is bittersweet, because today we wrap up Season 5 of Whit’s End. In this episode, I interview Sarah Thomas, who joins us on sabbatical from across the Atlantic Ocean at a place called Capernwray Hall north of London.
I had the privilege of crossing paths with Sarah recently when I was invited to participate in a retreat she was leading in Colorado, a retreat that ended up being just what I most needed, a couple days of very vulnerable conversation with other women and long stretches of alone time with Jesus. In this episode, we talk about the importance of solitude - what it is, why it’s such a worthwhile spiritual discipline, and how we can practically pursue it. Sarah briefly shares her testimony and gives the back story of all that led her to start this ministry called Breathe that aims to help you carve out spaces for solitude right where you are. Let’s dive in!
IG: @dstforhim, @ministries.breathe
Show Notes:
breathe-ministries.com
https://torchbearers.org/
Quotes:
“I came into Bible school thinking I knew everything about Christianity, and I left four years later realizing just how little I understood and with a much better understanding of the actual gospel, which has a lot more to do with Jesus living the Christian life than Sarah living the Christian life. And that was important for me because I was putting a lot of stock into my own successful living of the Christian life.”
“Wow, I am tired, and I am 20+ years into ministry now, and I don’t want to just struggle, and fade, and not end well. And I don’t want that for my friends.”
“In my heart and mind, I felt there was a need for leaders to get together, to have a little more freedom in their time at a retreat, to be pushed into a little more solitude, and then to be around other like-minded leaders where they could really be real.”
“I think our greatest need is actually to meet with Jesus…The amazing thing is that he is fully available to us.”
“I believe solitude is a bit of a lost art, and it’s something that is not rocket science, and that I’ve begun to practice in my own personal journey not because I thought it was right and I must do this to be a good Christian, but because I recognize that I need Jesus to help me right now and I don’t know the next right thing.”
“Our God is a living God, and you know if we were just following a set of principles, we could just study. And there’s a lot of great quotes out there…but the reality is that you don’t know how God is always going to answer. And I think He’s a living God who loves us and He has His own plans, and believe it or not they aren’t always our plans.”
“We know from scripture, he’s after faith…He’s after your heart trusting Him…”
“Seeking the Lord in solitude is a posture of trust.”
“I have found more and more the Lord desires so much for me to just lean in, knowing my need for Him, trusting Him, knowing my brokenness and His ability.”
“Solitude is a beautiful way of expressing knowing our need for Him, our understanding of our need for Him. Then He surprises us.”
Verses
Psalm 73
James 4:8
Psalm 73:28
Psalm 91:1
Every year, Woven highlights a ministry that we want to come alongside, encourage, and support in whatever way possible. That’s why we’ve chosen to spotlight Sparrow Collective based in Lewisville, Texas. Today I get to sit down with their founder and CEO, Rachel Joy. She shares some pretty incredible stories, some timeworn nuggets of wisdom, as well as her own journey of God birthing this multifaceted ministry. She opens up about God chasing her when her walls were up, healing some deep wounds, and calling her to step out in great faith. Today we start the conversation with Rachel giving us an overview of who Sparrow is and what they do.
Social media handle: @rachelrjoy, @sparrowcollective
Website: sparrowandco.com
Show Notes/Quotes:
“I’d been a believer for quite some time but I mean the Lord, He was after me, and he stared down and broke down all these walls that I had put up.”
“Truth, freedom, identity, purpose. Truth, freedom, identity, purpose.”
“Comparison is a real thing. Competition is a real thing. We think that our Christianity needs to look like everyone around us, and we don’t actually ask the Lord, ‘Who have you created me to be? And what have you created me to do?’”
“Instead of competing with you and comparing myself to you, I get to celebrate you.”
“I think if you go to the scriptures you’ll see that there are a lot of leaders that are not ideal in the mind’s eye, yet God uses the least of these.”
“A leader is someone who listens to the Lord and steps out in faith and they don’t necessarily have the full picture but they trust the God who does. That’s who a leader is.”
“A leader is not the loudest person in the room. A leader is actually one who listens first.”
“My allegiance has to be to King Jesus. Period, end of story…what sits on the throne of your heart?”
“A leader always prays and leads with prayer.”
“Sometimes leaders can build little kingdoms, instead of building THE kingdom. Two very different things.”
“Not every opportunity is obedience.”
“Am I about results, or am I about God being glorified? Those are two very different things.”
“God uses the lowest points to show you who He is and then you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it’s Him that’s doing the work and it’s not you.”
“I feel very much caught up in something that is totally the mark of the Lord and has very little to do with me.”
“Stepping out in faith, you do look a little crazy, and that’s ok.”
“Be curious. Be curious…no sphere of influence is too small, too big, God has placed you exactly where He wants you. Be curious about what He’s doing, and join Him in what He’s doing.”
Verses:
1 Corinthians 13:12
Tim and I sit down with our friend Jeremy Janda and invite him to share his heart in this episode. As a husband and father, leader in his church, and 5th generation resident of Fayette County, Jeremy has sought to use his time, energy and resources to serve and invest in our local community. Over the past few years, he’s become increasingly more aware of the books that are lining the shelves of our children’s public libraries, of the resources our kids readily have at their fingertips.
We pick up the conversation with Jeremy sharing a little about his growing up years and how his past has compelled him to actively engage in this controversial topic. My hope is that this discussion empowers parents to have more intentional conversations with their kids about what they’re consuming, raises awareness among adults about the content children are exposed to, and encourages communities to resist convenience in favor of pursuing what’s truly best for our children.
Jeremy invites further conversation and questions on this topic. If you'd like to connect with him, email: checkplusstorage@gmail.com
Show Notes/Quotes:
Libby app
The Culture Translator Newsletter
“Kids are not mature enough to handle these topics, children that are sexualized at young ages - there are plenty of studies that show it is not healthy, it leads to so many different problems in the future.”
“The problem I have with the language is if it can’t be used freely in school then why is it ok to hand out literature that has that language in it?”
“It’s going into libraries before it’s sat in the hands of parents or people…books that were put into print very quickly…there haven’t been many adult eyes that have been able to look at this and go - ‘Is this good for our children’s minds? Is this good for our children’s hearts?’”
“I think it’s important if anything comes out of this podcast that parents realize this is not a big city problem, this is not another state’s problem, this is in Texas, this is in every school district.”
“If we promote or lead children down a path of sinfulness, I think that’s the worst form of hate you could give to anybody.”
“That’s what this argument is about - what’s appropriate for children and what’s not.”
“I do know that us not pouring into our children in this short time period that we have to do that, they are kids for such a short period of time…and our influence during that period of time is so crucial.”
“Parents have to stand up and say we’re not going to be complacent, we’re not going to be that generation of tolerating it.”
“After 2 decades studying the religious, spiritual lives of American adolescents the evidence is clear, no other institution or program comes close to shaping youth religiously as their parents do.” -Dr. Christian Smith
“The influence that you have as a parent is from age 0 to 18. From 0 to 18 you would have already spent 85% of the time that you’ll ever spend with your child, has already been spent. And you will spend the rest of your life, however many years that might be, with that credit of 15%. That’s always resonated with me. As inconvenient sometimes as it can be to be a parent, I have to recognize that this is where my time needs to be spent right now.”
Jeremy invites any further discussion and questions on this topic! If you’d like to learn more or connect with him in more depth, email him at checkplusstorage@gmail.com
Verses:
Matthew 18:5-9
Romans 12
James 4
In this episode, Whitney teaches through Luke 7:36-50 about a nameless woman who responds to Jesus in an awkward but beautiful display of affection.
We see a great contrast between the host, Simon the Pharisee, who demonstrates cynicism, doubt, and judgment, and the woman who pours out sacrificially at the feet of Jesus, a woman known in town only as a sinner.
This brief episode touches on the ways that we attempt to make ourselves look better than we are, while challenging us to live a version of faith that expresses itself in sincere action. It offers a fresh look at repentance and pushes us to ask how our faith is known beyond the words that we speak.
Social media: IG - wlscarborough
Show Notes/Quotes:
“Is Whitney even your real name?”
“We have a tendency to make ourselves look better than we are.”
“Genuine faith reveals itself in sincere action.”
“I believe that repetition as we study God’s Word is one of the most helpful and important things we can do.”
“Eugene Peterson, the author of the Message version of the Bible, writes, ‘the NO we say to the world’s lies and the YES we say to God’s truth is repentance. It is always and everywhere the first word in the Christian life.’”
“I think repentance is very hard for us, because we have a tendency to make ourselves look better than we are.”
“My faith and your faith will look different, but our faith needs to visibly look like something. And I believe that it probably ought to look more like a messy, awkward display of abundant gratitude to our Savior and less like a crossed arm, judgmental view of our neighbor.”
“Dane Ortlund is the author of a book called Gentle and Lowly, and he writes, ‘It’s the most counterintuitive aspect of Christianity, that we are declared right with God not once we begin to get our act together but once we collapse into honest acknowledgement that we never will.’”
Verses:
Luke 7:36-50
1 Samuel 16:7
James 2:26
2 Chronicles 7:14
My husband Tim joins me for this candid, refreshing, and hope-filled conversation with Brian and Emilie McCormack. Together they lead Breakaway Ministries with their family in College Station, TX. What started as a small gathering of college kids hungry for God's Word has grown into a Bible study of several thousand students that meets weekly in Reed Arena.
Whether you’re an Aggie, a former participant of Breakaway, or just want to hear some incredible updates from one of the biggest college campuses in the US, the McCormacks offer a unique perspective of revival and discipleship taking place at Texas A&M.
This one hits close to home for us, and today you’ll hear a little about how this ministry has had a direct impact on our family. We pick up the episode with Brian sharing the history and timeline of how Breakaway got started.
Social media: @brianmccormack, @emiliemccormack, @breakawaymin
Breakaway Ministries
Show Notes/Quotes:
“When we’re asked, 'What do we see?' The answer’s always the same, it’s just that we see hunger. There’s a wild hunger among this generation and among college students right now.”
“The opportunity is incredible, but the need and the urgency is just as big.”
“And she said - ‘I don’t know what happened, but I encountered God, and something in me changed.’”
“It’s God who’s doing the heavy lifting, we just get to plant the seeds and then, man, sometimes we get to see the fruit.”
“Statistically most people are deciding are they in or are they out when it comes to following Jesus in this 18-24 year-old range.”
“When I tell a couple thousand 20-year-olds, 'You are God’s primary delivery mechanism for the grace and hope and healing of God in this day and age and there is no plan B,' they kinda straighten up and are like, ‘Ok, what are we gonna do about that?’”
“Two words come to mind - questions, and confession.”
“I think the best thing a man can do is give his son a category for a man who is fully known by a few other men, and who are seeking God together.”
Reflections on seminary, “I feel more certain that Jesus is the hope of the world, and I feel like I know less than I started.”
“You have to have the living Word pouring into you.”
“It’s not just about information, but rather about transformation, and that transformation happens in God’s nearness…proximity is the remedy.”
Dee Jordy is a hometown hero of mine! As a friend here in La Grange, Dee is one of those dear souls who has demonstrated a raw, genuine, hungry faith. If you know Dee, you’ve likely experienced how deeply she loves the Lord, that He has redeemed her life in unbelievable ways and she never tires from sharing about that. Dee is married to her husband Adam and together they have 4 kids.
As a cardiovascular sonographer, a mentor teacher, a children’s volunteer at church, and a caretaker for her mom, Dee has more than a full load. Thankfully she sits down with me today to tell her story. Dee is such an expressive person that you might even hear her hand gestures as she taps the table throughout our conversation…regardless, I pray you are as deeply blessed by her story as I have been.
Before we get started, I do want to include a disclaimer that this episode includes raw details relating to abuse, suicide, and abortion and may be inappropriate or disturbing for some listeners.
Quotes:
“I think for people maybe who have walked in faith for a large part of their life it can look like people who don’t have that get to kind of live free and clear without that stuff before, right, without all these rules that religion imposes but I don’t think that that’s what faith looks like. I feel like in these times when it looked like I was living free I was so afraid, and it was so scary.”
“I was an angry, probably very scary person to be around a lot. I wasn’t physically abusive but I was harsh, ya know and afraid and broken and did not know the Lord at all and had zero peace and all of my worth was tied up in the relationships in my family, and I feel like I did a lot of damage to my relationship with our girls.”
“One day I remember sitting and just being like, alright, Lord, if you’re real, and if all this is legit, and you seriously expect me to believe all of this, and buy into any of this and this is real, I’m open. Show me. I’m listening.”
“[These relationships] have been such a well of hope to be able to be immature in my faith and walk with ladies who had been doing it for longer or could do it with a purer heart that was more all in.”
“I was still working in my own brain and in my own strength and trying to figure out if this faith was legit and if I was going to go down this path. I was in Romans, and it says, ‘I’m speaking to you in human terms because of your natural limitations’ and it was like God was like, ‘Hey Dee, your brain could not possibly hold it all. I’m telling you this as simply as I can and I’m showing it to you and you’re just going to have to take what I can give you and take it and accept that you’re not going to know everything, and you’re just going to have to have faith.’”
“I love the moment by moment, very gradual nature of your story. And I think it’s one of the things that makes it so relatable.”
“I can see that the Lord would have used that life to bring life.”
“The Lord can use every single experience I’ve been through to make somebody feel safer.”
“Shining that light of Jesus into those dark places and being like - man, it really doesn’t matter where you’ve been or what you’ve done.”
“All of it is still being funneled toward God, even all of the ugly, which we think we only can bring our praise and our worship, but God He wants all the rest of it.”
“It’s impossible to do that without that light shining on that. You can’t fix your thinking from inside the broken thinking without the Lord in there with you and literally nobody else can stand in there with you. Counselors are great, friends are great, but nobody can be with you in those moments of struggle like the Lord.”
Verse
Romans 6:19
A few years ago, Tim and I recorded a couple conversations on marriage and parenting. Today, we sit down to revisit the concept of how we create culture in our homes. We touch on training our kids up into increasing responsibilities, choosing travel and experiences over stuff, building Sabbath rhythms into our weekend routine, and lingering dinners that create the space for deeper conversations. We honestly share some of our cyclical struggles and weak spots that we continue to hit heads on (feel free to send your advice!), including busy-ness, finances, and communication. We pass on some wisdom that has impacted us in the recent past, from podcasts to counseling and mentors.
IG: @wlscarborough, @tim_scar
Show Notes/Quotes:
Tim Keller Marriage podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cultivating-a-healthy-marriage-with-tim-keller/id1752020494
“Our goal each week, and this is hard, is to have half the week or more where we are sitting down eating together…what I’ve seen with our kids is that it grounds them.”
“I feel like your desire for verbal affirmation is literally insatiable. No matter how much I did it, you would always want a little bit more.”
“I remember Opie saying a couple years ago that to him one of his favorite things was a meal that we could just sit and enjoy and didn’t have a stopping point to it.”
“Inevitably, in those times, we end up talking about a lot of things that we believe in.”
“The concept of Sabbath as a centering day for the people of God to reorient themselves around the person of God as their provider is still needed. It hasn’t gone away.”
“The busy-ness does damage to our souls, and it causes us sometimes to feel so at odds with each other when really we just haven’t spent time together. There’s really no substitute for quality time. If we are running too fast, filling our schedules too full, we cannot also feel deeply connected to each other.”
“Spending some time with younger couples too has sharpened us in some really cool ways.”
“There may be some validity here to my frustration, but I need to do a better job of seeing the character of my husband and encouraging him in that, and not just jumping to, ‘Well you didn’t do this thing for me that I wanted you to.’”
“One thing that I think that has adjusted over 17 years of marriage, we would at the beginning of our marriage just jump right into an argument when something ticked us off, but now, you and I both, that’s tempered over the past decade and a half…I think what you’re really doing in that is giving me the benefit of the doubt…whenever we do that for each other, it allows us to perceive each other in a whole new light.”
“God, help me to better steward who I am, and to be the best that I can be in these roles that you’ve entrusted to me.”
In this episode, Tiffany Daniels joins us from Arlington, TX. She and her husband have been married for about 35 years and have three grown kids and almost 4 grandkids.
As the wife of a lead pastor, Tiffany has been in ministry for many years, but our conversation today focuses mainly on how God unexpectedly led her to start an organization called THERE{4} in 2015, a weekend conference for high school girls.
My daughter Charlotte recently got to participate in the middle school version and absolutely loved it. Today we dive in with Tiffany telling us more about the heart behind this ministry.
Social media handle: @tiffanydaniels, @there4gathering
Show Notes:
At Your Best by Carey Nieuwhof
Redeeming Your Time by Jordan Raynor
“The Lord birthed a passion in my heart to create a space for teens to come together and have the Word of God spoken over them in such a clear and powerful way but also make it relevant and fun for them.”
“At that moment, I said ‘Yes, Lord.’ And I had no idea what it was going to look like. I had no idea if it was even going to get off the ground. But I said Yes.”
“For us sometimes as women we can kind of stall out, and in those seasons I’ve encouraged those that are either in my circle or behind me that feel like they're stalling to ask the Lord. There’s a verse in Psalm 13 that says, ‘Lord brighten my eyes.’ Illuminate me, show me. God is so faithful to do that.”
“There’s a verse that hangs on my wall in my office from Zechariah 4:10, it says, ‘Do not despise the day of small beginnings because the Lord delights to see the work begin.’ And so many of the little ideas and dreams that I have had, have started very small.”
“You know what I am seeing overall is that [teenage girls] are hungry for truth.”
“I think as a leader too just trying to really be mindful of how I use my words with others, either with my team, on or off the grid, with people in my church community. I think words hold such power, and our words hold so much power.”
“I tend to run fast, that’s my DNA, my humanness. Lately, if I’m being really vulnerable, the word stroll has come front and center to me, and to me it’s like - slow down, take time to sit in it, don’t rush through it, pay attention, pray about it, get in the Word. What does the Lord say about it? And I think that’s been such a powerful discipline.”
“I think we should always have that posture, regardless of if we’re in a slump or not, to be teachable, and open to those safe people pointing out our blindspots. I ask my team a lot, I have to repeat to them, I want to be teachable. I always want to be teachable. Bring it on. And that can be scary!”
Verses:
Psalm 13:3
Zechariah 4:10
Psalm 145:4
I am so excited for you to get to know Ashleigh! She is one of those delightful humans you feel like you’ve known your whole life right off the bat. Warm, joyful, and welcoming, Ashleigh and her husband Daniel have 2 elementary age kids, one of whom is a classmate to my son Opie.
If you're local to La Grange, you may have seen her walking her GSP, which I learned is the insider term for German Short-haired Pointer. She grew up in a now large Austin suburb called Hutto when it was just a small country town, and first came to Woven when she was invited to our annual Advent gathering by a neighbor.
This conversation hits on everything from an unexpected pregnancy and shame, to seeking to fill a void and pursuing counseling, to the desperate prayers we pray when we don’t even know if anyone is listening. Today we pick up the conversation with Ashleigh sharing some of her first memories of how her faith was formed at an early age.
Memorable Quotes:
“Even though I’ve done all these things, and achieved all these things, in high school, in college, undergrad, masters, I just kinda felt like - Ok, so? This is great, this is a wonderful achievement, but I didn’t feel like it was enough. I was hungry for more and I didn’t know what that was.”
“I started noticing our marriage going down this road of not what I wanted and I knew it wasn’t something he wanted either, and I just didn’t know what to do about it. I had no idea what to do about it, and I knew something was missing, I knew that we could do better than this, we, as a team, as a marriage can do better than this.”
Reflections on desperate prayer: “Now that I think about it, I didn’t ask for a specific thing, I just asked for help.”
“I just felt like I wasn’t good enough, and I think we’ve all been in that place.”
“It wasn’t because of the people, it was just what I was creating in my mind.”
“In the Bible, the women do a lot, they do a lot that really shift the story and change the course.”
Andrew and Sara Knight join us today from Idaho where they work with Campus Outreach at Boise State, known for its infamous blue football field. They are passionate about pouring into college students, a ministry they’ve spent the past 20 years investing into. They have 4 kids and are originally from Atlanta, Georgia. Sara and I actually first met as freshman in our sorority at the University of Georgia, over half of our lifetimes ago, and I can’t wait for you to hear their insight on practical discipleship, the art of sharing our faith, and the incredible hunger for Christ they’re seeing in the up and coming generation. Today we pick up with Andrew telling his own story and why they have spent their lives being intentionally engaged on college campuses.
Campus Outreach started in Birmingham, AL in the late 70s when a local church wanted to have an expression of itself on a college campus. Since then, it has grown into an international ministry dedicated to helping university students follow Christ into lives of service and leadership. If you’d like to specifically engage with Campus Outreach in Boise, head to tablerock.church/college-ministry, where you can read more and make a donation to this incredible work.
Social media handle: @coboise, @saralknight
Link to give: https://www.tablerock.church/college-ministry
Show Notes/Quotes:
“The Lord impacted my life in such a deep way, I thought, I would like to be the same for someone else.”
“Somewhere around 85% of students coming into college, if they have a faith, 85% are going to leave their faith between the ages of 18 and 24. And if they don’t have a faith, they’re going to make their faith decision by the age of 24.”
“I read the Bible with people who don’t go to church. And he looks up and he says - ‘You know what? I’ve wanted to read the Bible my entire life. And I’ve never had anyone to read it with.’”
“I think the fact that the world is broken is very clear to everyone.”
“We so much talk about both evangelism and discipleship, and we just feel like you can’t have one without the other. As you’re building relationships with people, you’re discipling them to hear Jesus and have open ears so that they can know him.”
“Evangelism is a natural part of discipleship and discipleship is a natural part of evangelism, and it’s so relational.”
“When I think about how I would disciple someone, I just want to do my relationship with God, I want to do Christianity with someone else. I don’t just memorize a verse alone, I’m going to do it with someone else. I’m not just going to pray alone, I’m going to do it with someone else. I’m not just going to study my Bible alone, I’m going to do it with someone else…I’m going to invite them into my life.”
“I think maybe the hardest thing is that ministry is mainly time, it just is. I know for myself I’m a selfish person, and so I have to die to myself to give others my time.”
Verses:
1 Thessalonians 2:8
1 Corinthians 3:11
Each year, Woven’s leadership team reads through a book in order to challenge us in an area of our personal faith and development. Over the course of the 2024-2025 calendar year, we read through a profound resource called A Gentle Answer. I was honored to have the author, Scott Sauls, sit down for a behind the scenes interview.
He joins us from Nashville, TN, where he spends his days mentoring leaders and influencers. He has been married to his wife Patty for about 30 years. They have two adult daughters, Abby married to Jeff and Ellie married to Drew.
He and Patti are passionate about helping weary souls discover the abundant mercy of Jesus Christ. Let’s dive in with Scott sharing a little of what compelled him to write this book with the tag line “our secret weapon in an age of us against them."
Scott Sauls Substack
A Gentle Answer on Amazon
IG: @scottsauls
Noteworthy Quotes:
“There’s no such thing as a fruit of the Spirit that is not born of strength.”
“Gentleness is a kind response to unkind behavior…have you ever tried to forgive somebody? What strength did that take? The strength of restraint.”
“On the one hand, Jesus gives total relief to the law when it comes to us in the burden of legalism but at the same time Jesus doesn’t lower the bar on the law, he raises it…Jesus says, there’s good news. That’s why I came.”
“If I find myself getting triggered by everything, it probably means that I’ve lost sight of how much I have been forgiven for. Our behavior always mirrors what we’re thinking and feeling and believing in our hearts.”
“The gospel has this effect when it’s working in our lives to humble us and also to lift us up at the same time.”
“Soul and character development is slow work, and a platform can be created in a day.”
“If we don’t build our lives around a character and a humility that flows from Christ now, there’s going to be a time in our lives that we wish that we did.”
Verses:
Proverbs 15:1
Jeremiah 17:9
Matthew 18:23-35
Romans 2:4
Luke 19:1-10
Romans 5:8
In this raw and honest conversation, you’ll get to meet Melinda Williams, my friend and co-worker. She has recently joined Woven staff as the ministry coordinator and brought a multitude of skills (I’m lacking) to this new position. We laugh about the quirks of working alongside each other, while seeking to create wise boundaries and talk through tensions.
Melinda shares about seasons of grief and loss throughout her life, and opens up about a particularly challenging season she walked through in her family over the past 5 years. This one is a tear-jerker, but it is oh-so-refreshing and important as we dig into questions like -
How do we experience God’s goodness even in tremendous pain? How can we think rightly about God’s sovereignty when our world seemingly falls apart? Can we work well as friends with vastly different gifts? What does it look like to honor God as we parent through unknown territory?
Social media handle: @melindawilliamstxco
Noteworthy Quotes:
“I think that when you’re close that way and any one of you is struggling, all the rest of you are not totally ok.”
“You can’t always get in front of everything. I think that as a parent, you think you can.”
“The fact of the matter is there’s no playbook on this stuff.”
“I don’t think this happened to us because we weren’t doing something right. I don’t think this happened to us because our child did something wrong. I think it was a perfect storm. I think the Lord allowed it to happen. And I think that He walked with us every step of the way, and we could have chosen to see that or not see that.”
“Sometimes, honestly, sometimes I would be too fraught to even pray. Knowing prayer is what we need the most, and I don’t even have the words.”
“I could sense myself honestly questioning, ‘Did I think God did this?’ and ultimately I kept coming back to, I think God allowed it. And that He’s sad like I’m sad.”
“If someone’s not letting you in, it’s not that you have to go barge the door down, but you also can’t turn a blind eye and put your head in the sand and not dig deeper with some people. Because when the struggle is happening, everybody needs community. We were created for community. And so, if you’re not getting that, it’s going to be ten times worse.”
“There is never a risk-free guarantee with anything when we are following the Lord. Really, He is the constant. He is the one who is going to be there after we’re dead. He is the Alpha and the Omega. Really, other than that, there is really not a lot guaranteed.”
Verses:
Psalm 34:17
Philippians 4:7
In this episode, we look at Jesus' response to his disciples' request to teach them how to pray in Luke 11. We consider the parallel between prayer and family dinner, and ask how our thinking surrounding prayer might be off.
In my observation, we pray small, we pray seldom, we pray safe, and we pray selfish. Small prayers reflect a small view of God. Seldomly praying says we don’t think prayer matters. Safe prayers show that we feel best in the security of money, a steady job, comfort. Selfish prayers tell the true state of our hearts. Our faith might even feel less threatened when we pray small, safe, infrequent prayers because then we can’t be disappointed.
What then is God's heart for prayer? How have we misunderstood the gift that prayer is? If Jesus' example prayer was only 36 words, why do we think we have to impress him and those around us?
My hope with this episode is that it would reclaim and redeem our understanding of prayer. Today, we're going to look at the childlike nature of prayer as Christ taught on several occasions. In both Matthew 6 and Luke 11,Jesus reveals that prayer is simple and rich.
References:
- A Praying Life by Paul Miller
Show Notes:
- Luke 11:1-13
- Revelation 3:20
Today I have the privilege of sitting down with a very special guest, my mom, Julie Brenton. For those of you who know my mom, she has a devoted faith in the Lord, she loves his Word, and because of this, she overflows with wisdom.
What led me to reach out to her was that I had been thinking recently about how many people in my world have dealt with the loss of a parent, including my husband. And truly as we grow up, we realize it’s one of those sobering things we will likely see happen in our lifetime.
One of the things I like to do with this podcast is to offer encouraging, practical, biblical wisdom as people are dealing with the hard, the painful, the nitty gritty details of life. So today, my mom and I talk about the death of both of her parents in different moments of her life story and in ways that have profoundly shaped her.
She lost her dad unexpectedly and tragically at a young age almost 40 years ago, and she lost her mom, my dear grandma Cuie, just a little over a year ago before recording this, and her decline and her death happened slowly over several years. But before we talk about her dad’s passing, we talk about who he was and who she remembers him to be.
Memorable Quotes:
- “Don’t you ever forget, boys are a dime a dozen. Wait for a good one.”
- “I was processing the reality of how much I loved my dad and the truth that someone you can love with what feels like all your heart and soul can actually make a decision to not be in your life any longer.”
- “A lot of times things that are manifesting themselves in our children, especially very young children, really is…how they are breathing and reading and sensing what’s going on in the home.”
- “I think God wants to give us His Word to meet us in those places.”
- “When my dad took his life, fear entered into a lot of the ways I processed things.”
- “I think I was learning to think rightly about the sovereignty of God.”
- “I feel like God is wanting us to think true and right things about Him at all times, so He values getting us to those right places if we let Him.”
- “I spent a lot of time looking for someone who could answer my why that would have happened to my dad, and it wasn’t until I realized that’s the wrong question. I need to lay that down. My answer is going to come in my who. Who am I trusting. That’s going to come in the sovereignty of God.”
- “It was so much of an out of body experience to take this woman who has always meant strength, courage, wisdom, intelligence, beauty, who is nothing but a shell of that now and place her there…It was daunting to think how our lives get reduced from enormous quantities of stuff to just a room, and eventually nothing. Quite a visual reminder of how to live.”
- “How pointless and utterly dark and depressing this life is without the indescribable hope of eternity with Jesus.”
- “I feel like saying yes to caring for my mom was also saying no to my children and my grandchildren, for a season, and I didn’t know how long that season was going to be. Looking back, it was this profound opportunity that God gave me to honor my mother.”
- “My mom died just the way she lived…mom was kind all the way to the bitter end.”
- “Either God is sovereign in all, or He is not sovereign at all. And I have learned the truth of that through the loss of both of my parents.”
- “God’s timing is His kindness.”
- “I never heard my mother tell another person about something she had heard from someone else. I learned it is incredibly valued to be a trustworthy person.”
- “There’s such joy in knowing in a mom that she’ll listen to you no matter what. And she wants to hear.”
Show Notes/References:
- Psalm 56:3-4, “When I am afraid, I put my trust in you. In God, whose word I praise—in God I trust and am not afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?
- Psalm 3:4-5, “I call out to the Lord, and he answers me from his holy mountain. I lie down and sleep; I wake again, because the Lord sustains me.
Mike Cooper recently retired from working as a chaplain in the federal prison system for 20 years. He is a husband to Denese, a father to 5 grown children, and grandpa to two grandkids.
Mike is a gifted storyteller and has a legacy of ministry that challenges us to consider how we spend our time and where we invest our heart. This interview pushes us to think differently about how we view men and women in the prison system and provides insight into just how powerfully God works in lives and places we may think of as beyond hope.
Are we looking at everyone we encounter with a gospel lens? Join me and Tim in an episode I believe will profoundly mark you.
We pick up the conversation where I admit I first reached out to Mike because I knew next to nothing about what goes on in correctional facilities and the prison ministry I’d heard about for ages.
Memorable Quotes:
- “My plans are most of the time thwarted by God’s plans, thankfully. He saw something different.”
- “It was that moment when I realized that my knowledge of the Word and my memorization of God’s Word said was lacking. And he challenged me.”
- “There are two groups of people that are very similar, and that is teenagers and folks that know how to con people. They know when someone is true, they know when someone is legitimate, they see that they’re sincere.”
- “I don’t call him Juan the embezzler, John the whatever…listen, you are a man made in the image of God, you are a woman made in the image of God, and I’m focused on what God is going to do in your life right now to get you to where God wants you to be.”
- “I never had a chance to do what was right because I didn’t know that was wrong" (quoting an inmate)
- “I do know in my own life that there are times when His love and His mercy for me isn’t the encouraging word but it’s actually the hard word and discipline. There is something to the truth that God disciplines the son He loves.”
- “I can’t tell you how many times are heard from the men and women that were incarcerated - ‘prison was the very best thing that ever happened to me, and the reason is I would probably be dead if I continued on the path I was on, so God’s grace removed me from that terrible situation I was in and allowed me to be able to hear as crystal clear as I’ve ever heard in my life, the gospel.’”
Show Notes/References:
- 1 Thessalonians 2:8, “so we cared for you. Because we loved you so much, we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well.”
- Hebrews 12:6, “For the Lord disciplines the one he loves and chastises every son whom he receives.”
- Hebrews 12:11, “For the moment, all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.”
Today I sit down with Ryan and April Berg, the founders of the Aruna Project, a nonprofit organization committed to bringing lifelong freedom to victims of human trafficking.
They join us from Cincinnati, Ohio, and talk about the organic beginnings of an organization they started 10 years ago in South Asia as a result of a weighty problem that they could not turn away from.
This conversation is sobering as well as inspiring, and pushes us a to take a closer look at the massive problem of human trafficking, which currently claims over 49 million victims worldwide. In Ryan's words, data proves that no country is unaffected.
Whether you are familiar with this topic or are just learning about the reality of slavery today, this episode provides helpful information and reminds us of the importance of amplifying the voices of those affected.
*Please note that this conversation includes content about the nature of sex slavery that may be disturbing or inappropriate for younger listeners.
Memorable Quotes:
- “We think we have really gotten to the root of the problem for sustained freedom, the root of the problem in human trafficking is much larger, but at least for the root of the problem in sustained freedom, our whole goal was to try and figure out how can we significantly reduce re-trafficking rates and create lifelong freedom.”
- “Faithfulness is often not this grand gesture where we wake up in the morning and know this is it, but it’s this day in and day out of walking and being faithful.”
- "The latest data says that about 49 million humans are trafficked in the world today. No country is unaffected."
- “They are created in the image of God, and that for us is the hugest thing…”
- “All of this is fueled by knowing God’s love for us and for each one of these women, and so for me, as a mom too, each of these are daughters, and they may not have someone looking for them, but I will do everything in my power to give them freedom they deserve, because they are created in the image of God, and they need to know that, that they are worthy and valued.”
- “I want my best days of my life to be a part of God’s redemptive plan and part of that restoration.”
Show Notes/References:
- www.arunaproject.com
- Social media: @arunaproject
Tim and I worked at a very special place called Doulos Discovery School from 2009-2014. This expeditionary learning school is found in the mountains of the Dominican Republic in a town called Jarabacoa.
The summer of 2023, Tim and I got to go back to be a part of the school’s 20th reunion, and I had the unbelievable privilege of connecting with one of my old students named Jenniffer.
I first met Jenniffer as a sophomore in high school when she was far too cool for me. Y’all are in for a treat! Her story absolutely blows me away. As a 19 year old alone in the United States, she was faced with a tough choice when her Visa ran out.
She decided to stay in order to work and send money to her family back home in the DR, but when she got pregnant as an undocumented immigrant, life felt overwhelming and looked really bleak. But before we get there, Jenniffer takes us back to the beginning of her life in a poor neighborhood in the Dominican Republic.
Show Notes:
Doulos Discovery School:https://www.doulosdiscovery.org/
Memorable Quotes:
- “My mom’s faith has made an incredible impact on my life, now that I can look back on it, I can see it. Not when you’re a teenager.”
- “Then I got pregnant, which was definitely not a plan of mine. I really wanted to go to college and I really wanted to grow differently.”
- “I moved 6 times in 3 years.”
- “When you’re in the dark tunnel, you pause all your dreams, you pause all your goals.”
- “I think that the way God works is unexpected.”
- “It was really rough, being in a country that you are not familiar with, living by yourself, working by yourself, feeling very lonely, because you’re not able to see your family. I had no family on this side of the world.”
- “I had really dark moments mentally, obviously financially, but mentally was the hardest.”
- “It’s been a lot of dark moments that make those bright moments look 100x better.”
- “I can never forget every single person who has had a hand, that God sent to take care of me.”
In some ways, you could argue that today’s guest and I are choosing to parent our children very differently.
While our family is invested in our local public school, Hannah Hernandez has started a home school co-op for folks in the area. But Hannah and I agree big on the importance of raising our kids while we as parents demonstrate a transparent faith.
We believe it’s a tremendous privilege to teach them the stories of the Bible, to share about the goodness of God in our lives, and to model how to walk out our faith in the everyday, mundane activities.
Join me in a conversation with a woman I deeply respect, a conversation that is both challenging and encouraging, convicting and inspiring.
Show Notes:
- The Well - La Grange home school co-op
- IG: @babiesintheword, @hannahcsh
- Deuteronomy 6, especially verses 4-9
Memorable Quotes:
- “So, to me, this is what Christian parenting is. In every single thing that you do, you’re giving your children Jesus.”
- “We can’t give our children what we don’t have ourselves. We have to be in the Word, we have to be seeking His face. Only then can we disciple and share our faith with our children.”
- “My husband and I firmly believe that the most important thing that we as parents can do is to live out our faith at home while teaching our children the simple gospel to know God and to make Him known. We want every decision we make for our family to be through a gospel-centered lens.”
- “These are tiny humans made in the image of God, and He wants their hearts just as much as He wants our hearts.”
- “You are the primary discipler of your child.”
- “My children are only going to believe about me what they see. If my faith is all done in private, then how are they going to know what my faith is?”
- “Your life is the most effective testimony of the gospel.”
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Today I get to share a fascinating conversation with Territa Chambers. Territa joins us from Charlotte, North Carolina and is a delightful woman who loves to read, learn new things, craft, and be with friends and family. She is married to Terry Jr. and they have 3 young adult sons.
Territa has been practicing as a licensed counselor and transformational coach since 2016. She has a Masters Degree in Clinical Christian Mental Health Counseling from Gordon-Conwell and is currently working on a PhD in Health Psychology.
Today, Territa dives into some territory that was new and unfamiliar to me - we talk about disorder eating as a subcategory of eating disorders. This opened my eyes and made me look at my relationship with food in a whole new way. We also look at our ethnic heritage as black and white women and how the body image and eating habits of North American culture today find their roots in colonial times.
We pick up today’s conversation as Territa shares about coming to know the Lord and experiencing huge life transformation for the first time at age 23.
Show Notes:
- “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” - Romans 12:2
- “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” -Philippians 2:12
- Fearing the Black Body by Sabrina Strings
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- If you’ve met Erik Johnson, you know he has a huge heart and a contagious joy. Erik and his wife Kristen are friends of ours from church, and it was only in the past year that I learned more of his life story and asked if he would share it on the podcast.
Erik was born in the midwest and grew up in Nebraska, where he lived in a tiny town of 1300 people and graduated in a class of 32. Today, he shares his past struggles with alcohol and drugs, as well as a distinct memory of turning his back on God and the hard road that finally led him to sobriety.
Know that this episode includes quite a bit of rough content related to alcoholism and substance abuse. So now, let’s dive in right at Erik’s younger years when he first remembers encountering alcohol.
* The Texas House: https://www.texas-house.org/
* Alcoholics Anonymous: https://www.aa.org/
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In this episode, I have the privilege of sitting down with bestselling author and speaker Gary Thomas.
He and his wife Lisa have been married 40 years and have 3 kids and 2 grandkids. He actually lived in Houston near my home base in La Grange for about 12 years, but now resides in Colorado, which we joked about as a great place to end up after the heat and humidity of Texas.
Gary has written many well known books and phenomenal resources, including a Sacred Marriage, Authentic Faith, and Sacred Pathways. But the book we dive into in this conversation is called When to Walk Away.
Folks, this book was groundbreaking for me - as a people pleaser, I believed that any toxic person I encountered who didn’t change through our friendship must be some failure on my part. This book shifted my perspective in such needed ways not merely based on his opinion or experience, but a unique look into Christ’s interactions with people as we see in the gospels.
Today’s conversation is challenging, insightful, and filled with scripture, It may even shift your thinking on what our lives are intended to be about as Christ-followers made for eternal purpose and called to bear much fruit. I recommend taking notes on this one!
We dive in with Gary’s 1-minute elevator pitch of his book When to Walk Away.
Show Notes:
- website: https://garythomas.com/
- substack: https://garythomasbooks.substack.com/
- IG: @garythomasbooks
- FB: @ Author Gary Thomas
- When to Walk Away by Gary Thomas
- Nehemiah 8:10, “The joy of the Lord is your strength.”
- Matthew 6:33, “But seek first the kingdom of god and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”
- Joshua 24:15, “Choose this day whom you will serve.”
- 1 Corinthians 14:32, “The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.”
- John 10:10, “The thief comes only to kill and steal and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.”
- Colossians 3:8,12, “But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth…Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience”
- Matthew 7:6, “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.”
- Matthew 8 - Jesus delivers a man from demonic possession.
- Matthew 10:34-36, “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.”
- Matthew 12:48-50, "He replied to him, ‘Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?’ Pointing to his disciples, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.'"
- Luke 11:27, “As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”
- Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
- 2 Timothy 2:2, “And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.”
- John 15:8, “By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.”
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Kathleen Wadkins lives with her husband, 2 kids and their dog in eastern Iowa. In her words, “it actually exists!”
Kathleen is the head of content at The Pour Over, which aims to be a politically neutral, Christ-first news source. When you subscribe to The Pour Over, you’ll get an email newsletter 3x a week with a brief overview of some of the world’s biggest stories.
I found the Pour Over about 6 months ago while walking with a friend. We were talking about how I wanted to do a better job of staying up with current events but didn’t want to get sucked in to an unhealthy extent or consume news in a way that made me fearful, shortsighted, and/or emotionally fatigued. Enter The Pour Over.
This interview touches on how to read controversial news while keeping an eternal perspective, as well as seeking openness to correction and unconditional love. How do we respond when we're offended? How do we speak about people who are not present? Do we use our words to dignify or villify our enemies? Are we allowing the comment section on social media to be a petri dish that cultivates an US vs. THEM mentality?
We pick up this conversation on how Christians are called to be set apart in a world that thrives on division, offense, and controversy.
Show Notes/References:
- thepourover.org
- The Pour Over core values - brevity, levity, dignity, and clarity
- “By this everyone will know you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” -John 13:35
- IG: @ thepourovernews
- FB: @ The Pour Over
Memorable Quotes:
- “The Pour Over exists to be a trustworthy news resource guiding people toward eternal hope.”
- “This topic, this story, might be really big right now, but our goal at TPO is to keep the big things big and the small things small, and in light of eternity it probably won’t matter in 1,000 years, but your relationship with God will.”
- “One of the biggest opportunities we have as Christians is to reflect God’s light to other people.”
- “If someone was curious about how Christians are approaching the biggest topics of today and they came to our comment section, what would they find there? Would it be love and acceptance? Would it be gentle conviction? Would it be grace and truth? Or would it be keyboard warriors?”
- “We shouldn’t be willing to sacrifice relationships in order to win arguments.”
- “How can over half a million people choosing to have an eternal perspective about an election year impact the world around them?”
- “People are quick to make a judgment that we’re on a different team.”
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- Today I get to sit down with my dear friend, Alisha Keating. She’s a wife to Nate and mom to Corban and Simon. She works as pediatric nurse practitioner and has a deep, beautiful soul. We talk about everything from why it's worth it to travel with kids to the importance of getting involved in the local church. We dive into the grief of losing children by miscarriage and thoughts post-pandemic from her medical perspective.
The friendship I have with Alisha is one of those that was forged in a really painful season for both of us. This is both a teary, heavy conversation and one in which we laugh and reminisce about the awkward way we met.
IG: @nateandalisha, @ajkeating, @natekeating
Memorable Quotes:
* “I think it’s ok to let people sit in their pain for a time and sit in it with them instead of just encouraging them there’s an end to the pain, because God is with us in the pain.”
* “How in the midst of the pain and sin and just the curse of the earth, how do I still acknowledge that God is still on His throne and still has a plan despite the fact that we sorta screwed that up in the garden?”
* “I think sometimes loss or pain can actually give us that eternal perspective that wow, we are here for just this temporary time and how am I being a good steward of my love for my children, my love for my community? And it gives almost that healthy urgency that I don’t number the days of my children, God does. I don’t number the days of my own life, God does.”
* “The reality is only you get to be their parent, and only you have a voice in their life as their mom or as their dad and how are you using your voice in their life.”
* “Grieving is not a lack of faith or gratitude but it’s merely a recognition that what we have lost is precious.”
* “If Jesus himself says that he is going to defeat sin and death, he’s going - ‘this is an enemy only I can take on.’”
* “My dad sat with me and cried and said, ‘It’s good to grieve.’”
* “Humans are not made for isolation.”
* “I don’t think the pandemic necessarily created new problems as much as it revealed the underlying issues.”
* “It is actually good for me, for Nate, for our marriage, for me to say - ‘these are the things that I need!’”
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Vivian Mabuni is an author, speaker, and fellow podcaster who lives in southern California. As an Asian American woman, Vivian is passionate about leading and discipling and does this as she shares her authentic faith. She has written several books, including one we dive into in this episode, Open Hands, Willing Heart.
She and her husband Darin have been married for 32 years. They have 3 grown children and are very much enjoying this stage of spending time with adult kids! She works with a ministry called Cru and speaks with Family Life, as well as serves on the Board of Trustees for Denver Seminary.
I am so eager to share this conversation with you on a life of surrender, living with fresh faith, and what discipleship looks like. We talk about everything from surviving cancer to valuing ethnic heritage to building a thriving marriage. Let’s dive in!
Show Notes:
- Open Hands, Willing Heart by Vivian Mabuni
- John 15:4-11 - “Abide in me, and I in you…”
- Vivian’s Discipleship message at If:Gathering - https://youtu.be/QhexfN4d8Q8?si=iTz-3cD8MG_YOAj-
- Website: https://www.vivianmabuni.com/
- Podcast Someday is Here: https://www.vivianmabuni.com/someday-is-here
- Family Life Marriage conferences: https://www.familylife.com/weekend-to-remember/
- IG: @vivmabuni
- “Would we live a life of surrender. When we have open hands, God is free to put things in our lives, remove things from our lives. We don’t have control over those things. We can grip our hands or we can open our hands.”
- “God is released to move in our lives when we have a willing heart. And that’s one that says, ‘I’m ALL IN.’”
- “As hard as cancer was, there was still an underlying confidence…I knew the Lord’s got me.”
- “I think that’s what fresh faith looks like - that we are continually having to step out and trust Him in ways where we can’t figure it out.”
- “Our ethnic heritage does affect how we do life.”
- “The way that Jesus wanted us to reach the world was impacting people who would impact people who would impact people.”
- “Ministry is not life. My kids are not my life. Jesus is life.”
- “There’s a difference between impression and impact.”
- “Anything that’s worthwhile requires work.”
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As we close out Season 3 of Whit's End, we look toward the disciplines we want to put into practice this fall. At Woven, we are big on Bible study and think it's important to always know the WHY behind our WHAT. So today we take a closer look at some scriptures that give meaning to what we practice. What are spiritual disciplines? Why does Bible study matter? What is our responsibility in being transformed?
Verses:
Hebrews 12:11 - “For the moment, all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.”
Romans 12:1-2 - “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”
Quotes:
"Spiritual disciplines are an opportunity to partner with God for change, to consistently make room for the Holy Spirit to transform us from the inside out."
"If we only live a surface type of faith where God’s Word figuratively hangs on our walls or sits on pillows in our home but isn’t integrated into the deepest parts of ourselves then we cheat ourselves out of some of the richest blessings God has in store for us. Consistently partnering with the Holy Spirit for change is hard work and also deeply fulfilling work."
The phrase 'be transformed by the renewal of your minds' tells us it is both something that happens to us and something that we are actively engaged in."
Closing Prayer:
God I want to respond to you in worship by making my whole self available to you, and I’m trusting that as I engage with spiritual disciplines of Bible study, of prayer, of time alone with you, of slowing down my pace, you will produce fruit in my life. You will change me in the way I can’t change myself. You will grow me in the ways I’m powerless to create or bring about.
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Lindsay Hicks joins us from Houston, Texas to share the miraculous story of watching God revive her 4-month old son. She talks about the abiding presence of God through the darkest moments, growing in patience and grace in the grieving process, and allowing gratitude to push against the bitterness and cynicism that threatens to harden our hearts. She lives in the tension between having seen God work in mighty ways and the reality that her son’s life is forever altered.
Show Notes
Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund
James 1:1
Proverbs 3:5-7
Jeremiah 17:9
2 Corinthians 12:9
Quotes
“We know there’s a plan beyond our plan and our little life. God gave us a reassurance of His presence consistently.”
“I knew how deceitful my heart was being and I had to pray for compassion.”
“What God ultimately promises is His presence.”
“I knew my only source of help and strength was the Lord.”
“I could not get over my bitterness, my sadness, my self-righteousness without Him.”
“I don’t have to be hard on myself for my weaknesses because of who He is and who I am in Him.”
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Tim and I reflect on our past 12 years of parenting and share mortifying moments, hilarious travel stories, and wisdom we've picked up from those further on in the parenting journey. We talk about faith formation over behavior modification, our strengths and weaknesses as parents, and pushing against the constant temptation to find our worth in our children's performance. What's the best way to discipline? How can we cut through conflict between siblings and get to the heart of the matter? How do we practice serving and living out our faith with little humans watching? How can we bring our kids into the adventure of life without making them the center of our universe?
Quotes
“I remember feeling, ‘Am I cut out for this’?”
“I thought, 'I must be terrible because I don’t really enjoy being around my kids right now.'”
“We saw the importance of it taking a village and having people come around us to stand in the gap for our kids. It wasn’t just that we needed people to bring us meals, it was that we needed people to love on our children when we were not at our parenting best.”
“I think one of the best things we can do is take interest in the things that interest our kids.”
“Our kids are not the center of our universe, we are bringing them into our family and our life and we are on an adventure together but they are not our life, not the center of our universe or the source of our joy.”
“Our marriage is the relationship that takes priority.”
“What’s more important? This thing, or your sibling?”
“Spiritual formation should trump behavior modification every time.”
“Our kids are capable of understanding a lot more than we give them credit for.”
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Note: This podcast contains graphic content including domestic violence and the persecution of Christians.
We pray this episode moves you to respond in prayer as well as support the ministry of Lumens of Truth that Samir has started!
We encourage you to consider giving financially to support this ongoing work. You can donate through Servants International by clicking here. Under Designation, choose Lumens of Truth (not Afghan Support). All tax receipts will be processed by Servants International.
My hope and prayer is that you're moved to respond after listening to Samir's powerful testimony. As he mentioned, would we first be moved to pray for those experiencing intense persecution in Afghanistan, to pray for the laborers who are working to share the light of the gospel with those in darkness, and pray that the hope of Christ would continue to reach those who don't know him. Would we also ask God to turn our hearts from our desire to seek comfort above all and move us to care deeply for the global church, the body of Christ around the world. Lumens of Truth is in the process of raising $1500/month. They are hoping to have 10 supporters at $100/monthly and 10 supporters at $50/monthly. Use the link above to join Samir's team and set up a regular donation. Folks, this is one of those times I believe God is calling us to use our resources for something so big and meaningful and eternal!
If you'd like to reach out directly to Samir, contact him at samir@lumensoftruth.org. He would love to talk further about his work in Afghanistan or visit your church to share further about partnering with this ministry!
Quotes and verses:
“The gospel is precisely this invitation to pick up your cross.”
“Faith becomes alive through persecution.”
“The bride of Christ is in pain in many parts of the world.”
“We are giving hope to the people who have no hope.”
“My prayer is that we won’t carry this pain by ourselves.”
“I pray that the mission to the unreached people of Afghanistan and those who are most persecuted would not just be my mission but the church’s mission, and we would take this mantel for the sake of His name being praised among those who call themselves Taliban today, that they would become followers of Jesus tomorrow.”
“Where you see persecution, there you see the hand of God.”
“The gospel is not about words only, it’s about the power of God.”
“Let’s be a people that go before their Lord and confess that we have been a people that seek their comfort above all things.”
Romans 5:3-5 - suffering produces endurance
Colossians 1:24 - “Now I rejoice in my suffering for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s affliction for the sake of his body, the church.”
Matthew 16:24-25 - take up your cross
Philippians 1:29 - suffering for his sake
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Today I’m joined by Jeanne Luebbe. True to the podcast’s name, this episode centers on leaning in to ask the hard questions. Jeanne brings genuine humility and inviting warmth to conversations that feel electrically charged. We talk about engaging people thoughtfully, recognizing and understanding worldview and changing definitions, thinking about critical theory from a biblical grid, approaching controversial topics, and how, in the end, a humble and loving approach covers the mistakes we make along the way.
Show Notes
Neil Shenvi Apologetics
Tactics by Greg Koukl
1 Peter 3:15
Questions that Worldview Addresses:
Who are we?
What is our fundamental problem as human beings?
What is the solution to that problem?
What is our principle moral duty or purpose?
Questions to engage further:
What do you mean by that?
How did you come to that conclusion?
Have you considered…?
Francis Schaeffer quote: “If I have only an hour with someone, I will spend the first 55 minutes asking questions and finding out what is troubling them. And I would share something of the truth for the remaining 5 minutes.”
“In my efforts to share the gospel I was really hitting some roadblocks.”
“A worldview is a lens with which we look at everything around us.”
“Biblical truth is grounded in the character of God.”
“Love does cover our mistakes.”
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Studies show that over 90% of professing Christians don't actively practice the discipline of prayer.
Several years ago, I read A Praying Life by Paul Miller. This book profoundly shifted my perspective and helped me discover the true joy of prayer. I recently connected with Adam Barker, who serves as the Southwest Coordinator for seeJesus, the ministry which works in conjunction with this book. He joins the show for a refreshing and insightful conversation. We talk about how the biggest prerequisite to a life of consistent prayer is recognizing our own helplessness. He helps us shift our thinking from answered vs. unanswered prayers toward entering God's story, and introduces a practical tool that can make prayer a part of the daily rhythm of our lives.
Show Notes
A Praying Life by Paul Miller
Training resources
IG: @seeingjesus
“The prerequisite for a praying life is helplessness.”
“Sometimes the fruit is not that I see a prayer answered, but the peace that I have and the reassurance that God is at work in this situation and it does not depend on me and my control of it.”
“We enter the Father’s story when we pray.”
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Today, my husband Tim and I take on some of your hard questions. We reflect on 15 years of marriages, highs and lows, massive ridiculous fights, and bringing people in through confession and counseling. We talk about our tension over finances, my OCD tendencies, and how to keep pursuing each other physically and emotionally. Let's dive in!
Quotes:
"We realized that we did know the heart of each other, and we did know the character of each other, but the mannerisms, the idiosyncrasies, and the responses in the moment took time to adjust to."
"Here we were in this place in our marriage that we never thought we'd get to. What are we doing? How did we get here?"
"Life got different with a kid. We weren't connecting with each other and started to fill that void in other places."
"We learned the art of intentional confession, and the importance of it."
"Nobody can know, but someone has to know, or we won't make it out of this."
"You need the accountability, but you're terrified of the shame that comes from someone knowing."
"The truth is that counseling is always inconvenient."
"It sounds very unromantic and un-sexy to plan sex!"
"At the base of my defensiveness is pride."
"Apologies in our household have come to have a two-fold piece of fully owning and fully asking."
"The faithfulness of choosing one another day in and day out has tremendous fruit, but we don't always feel it, we don't always see it."
"Marriage is really about God refining each other through the other person and becoming more like him, and getting to experience the love of Christ and show his love to each other."
"The act of loving your spouse even when they suck is reflective of the God we say we serve."
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Hannah brings humor, joy and candidness to the podcast with this upbeat but thought-provoking episode! She talks about road trips (are you an "enjoy the journey" or a "hurry up and get to the destination" type of person?), getting married young, surprise pregnancies, and being led to adoption. She opens up about her role at the Archibald Project and how things have shifted in needed ways in the adoption world. She touches on a recent experience of wrestling with church leadership and leaving a congregation after seeing red flags. Having both been raised by Christian parents serving in ministry roles, we ask each other what our parents did well and what we learned from them. We reflect on the legacy of having folks who have sought to be consistent between who they are at home and on the "stage" of their lives.
Show Notes
The Archibald Project: thearchibaldproject.com, IG @thearchibaldproject
Scary Close by Donald Miller
Quotes:
"Adoption always starts with brokenness. Adoption can be beautiful, but you can also have to recognize that adoption starts with trauma."
"We knew that mom and dad were sinners and that they struggled, and when they did, they were going to apologize for it and own up to it and try to do better next time. And I think that has massively helped with our adult relationships today."
"I'm thankful that we worship a God who is not afraid of our hard questions."
"I know with confidence that I can look at [our daughter] for her entire life and say that when we adopted her we have always gone about it in an above board way."
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Today you're invited to listen in on a raw, honest, gut-wrenching conversation with Samantha Hadaway. She takes us back throughout her life, walking through the unthinkable in high school, continuing on a dark path and finally finding Jesus. She shares about how coming to experience the love of Christ has completely transformed her life. Now, she's getting to see fruit come from a season she thought was beyond hope. Let's dive in!
Disclaimer: This episode contains some graphic details of self-harm. We encourage adults to listen with discretion before allowing younger ears to hear this episode.
Favorite Quotes:
"I get to be a big party all day long!"
"Whit, I don't know if we have time for this..."
"I can't even believe sometimes I say things like this, but when you fall in love with Jesus, everything changes."
"God gave me a new name."
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Summer is here - which is a season for kids out of school, popsicles and pool time, and, of course, WEDDINGS.
Who doesn't love a good wedding? Listen in as we look closely at Jesus' first sign and seek to understand his miraculous act of turning water into wine. What does it teach us about Christ? What does is say about marriage? Why is it significant for us today?
Show Notes:
The Meaning of Marriage by Tim Keller
John 2
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If you've had the opportunity to learn from Natalie West, then you know she is a skilled Bible teacher who is passionate about the scripture. She is both seriously entertaining and profoundly insightful. She joined us in Season 1 of Whit's End to discuss God's heart for foster care and share a little of her personal journey. In this episode, Natalie brings a challenging word as we look at how we often mishandle scripture. At times we misunderstand who God is when we extract specific stories from THE BIG story of the Bible, neglecting the original context. Is the God of the Old Testament the same as the God of the New Testament? Why is studying history important? Why did God choose Israel and set them apart? Does God withhold rain in the Old Testament because He's vindictive?
Show Notes:
Take a closer look at Deuteronomy and 1 Kings
Elijah Bible study by Priscila Shirer
"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness." -2 Peter 1:3
Quotes to remember:
"It's like walking away from a banquet and saying 'I'm hungry'" - Natalie on how we often neglect to receive the good things that God has provided for us to live a life of godliness, such as His Word.
"Yahweh has to be faithful to Himself. It's part of His character. He cannot go against what He has said or who He has been."
"Our private lives for God are the only things that can support our public lives for God."
"We need to be far more compassionate and Christlike to our neighbors in real life than we are on Facebook."
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NaKeya Harris joins us from Charlotte, NC. She shares about how God re-routed her steps as a rebellious teen and offers marriage advice after recently celebrating 21 years. She talks about being the most unlikely candidate for seminary and God opening doors she hoped would close. She shares her thoughts on race and having a kingdom mindset first and foremost. This episode brings many good words about perseverance in hard things and keeping our eyes on Christ through it all. Let's dive in!
NaKeya works at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, where she supports the VP of graduate programs as well as reports to the director of Digital Education focusing on Instructional Design.
A few favorite quotes from this episode:
"Always date your spouse. Period. Do not compromise that. If you fail to date each other, your communication will suffer."
"When we surrender our life to Jesus he does the impossible with our life."
"I think of myself first as a kingdom citizen before I'm a woman, before I'm a black woman. That's where my heart is."
"Our default has to be going back to the Lord and sitting down and asking Him, 'what would you like me to do?'"
"Sometimes the Lord calls us to something and he really doesn't reveal the why. The obedience and faithful steps of following Him is what He's calling us to."
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In honor of Mother's Day, Heather MacFadyen kicks off Season 3 with this freeing conversation! Author and podcaster of Don't Mom Alone shares about sudden losses and painful rejections. She reminds us that God is so not done with our kids and challenges us to think about the role we play in accomplishing God's purposes in our children's lives. She shares from experience about the importance of building community that will carry us through unexpected valleys. When we deal with personal wounds we free up our friends to be icing on the cake. Heather recently released her second book, Right Where You Belong: How to Identify Your God-Given Space. Let’s dive in!
Show Notes:
IG: @dontmomalone
Don't Mom Alone Book
Right Where You Belong Book
Don't Mom Alone Podcast
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In this fourth episode of our mini-series and the final one in the season, we talk about how God has called us to live abundant and purposeful lives. We look at the relatable arc of Peter's journey and how Christ renewed the call on his life despite getting off course time and again. Finally, we talk about the kind of fruit God desires for us as we live out discipleship, recognizing there is great joy in giving our heart and soul for work that will outlast us.
Doulos Discovery School
John 21
James 4:14
As we close out this season, please share feedback, thoughts, encouragement, or critiques by calling our Google voicemail at 512-815-2446. Feel free to leave your honest thoughts and questions you hope we dive into in our third season!
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Before Jesus was crucified, he gave the disciples some encouraging words they didn't quite understand. He was about to send a Helper who would be more present and integrated into their lives than even Christ could be in His time on earth. In this episode, we continue to look at the theme of discipleship and how the Holy Spirit plays a critical role in the tremendous work we've been called into. We also look at one of the greatest divine reversals in the scripture and how God's redemptive work stretches across time and place.
*If you're interested in purchasing an original 4-week Bible study to accompany this podcast, contact Whitney @wlscarborough@gmail.com
John 14:16-20
John 15:26-27
John 16:6-7, 12-13
Genesis 11:1-9
Acts 2:1-8
Rediscovering the Holy Spirit by Michael Horton
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Why is our culture seemingly obsessed with fraudsters and con-men? In the second podcast of our Discipleship miniseries, we take a look at what Christ has to say about hypocrisy. While our words and actions are hopelessly inconsistent, we can put great confidence in the truth that Christianity is built on Jesus Christ, the only person to live in total non-hypocrisy his whole life long.
*If you're interested in purchasing an original 4-week Bible study to accompany this podcast, contact Whitney @wlscarborough@gmail.com.
Matthew 5:11-12
Matthew 6:1-4, 5-6, 16-18, 25-34
Matthew 7
Matthew 13-14
A Conversation with Dane Ortlund about Gentle and Lowly
The Jesus Music on Hulu
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The word DISCIPLE is both a noun and a verb. As a noun, it tells our identity as a Christian. As a verb, it gives our job description as a follower of Christ. Over the next 4 weeks, we will be looking at this theme of Discipleship through the lens of the gospels. To start out, we ask the question of "What Does It Mean To Be a Disciple?"
*If you're interested in purchasing an original 4-week Bible study to accompany this podcast, contact Whitney at wlscarborough@gmail.com.
Colossians 1:15-17
Matthew 4:18-22
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Mary Moore is one of those people who builds her life on Jesus Christ as the solid foundation. I have seen firsthand her humble and teachable heart, always eager to learn and dig deeper into the Bible. In this raw interview, she shares her wisdom on building a 55-year marriage. She opens up about walking through a decade-long season of deep waters and dark days. This conversation profoundly moved me and challenged me to ask myself if I really believe what I say I believe.
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Dan Brenton has worked in a variety of roles, including campus ministry, pastor, and speaker. But I've known him best in the role of dad for the past 37 years. He shares how the roles of parenting shift in different seasons and how Jesus shows up and fills in the gaps where we are lacking. My dad reminds us that raising kids is all about stewardship and helps us clearly define godly parenting. He offers a fresh look and an encouraging word to fathers, mothers, sons and daughters in all stages of life.
We honor dads everywhere on the week of Father's Day! Whether you've been loved well by yours or not quite felt valued, God knows your story. Family relationships can be among the most rich, the most complex, the most scarring, the most fun, the most difficult. The truth is that we have a Heavenly Father who is not a shadow of our earthly one, but infinitely more and better than all that earthly figure could ever offer us. Our Triune God has eternally existed as Father to the Son. Family has always been in the heart of God.
Proverbs 22:6
Matthew 20:1-16
Luke 15:11-32
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In this candid conversation about a failed business startup, Alex West takes us back through a journey of stepping out in faith and trusting God with a dream. She challenges our most commonly held understanding of success and teaches us to place our obedience over the outcome. This wife and mother of four also shares a practical approach to engaging in studying the Bible as a family.
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Jonathan Hernandez gives a powerful testimony of many small decisions that led to huge life changes. He talks openly about his journey of pursuing health and weight loss, and how to create habits that contribute to the kind of person you want to become. He reminds us that some of the hardest sacrifices lead to the greatest rewards. The hundreds of seemingly minor decisions we make each day are actually the building blocks of our identity.
Show Notes:
Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast
Atomic Habits by James Clear
Soundtracks by Jon Acuff
Winning the War in Your Mind by Craig Groeschel
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Oftentimes our lives don't unfold as expected. Jen Etter shares about a long season of singleness that led to a surprising 2020. She challenges us to rethink what it takes to be truly content and to pray big, unimaginable things of God. This episode touches on a wide range from cancer to the gentleness of God to job loss and the gift of marriage. Jen reminds us that the story God writes for our lives is always more rich and full of His kindness than we could have dreamed up.
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Dan LeMoine challenges our perspective on work and helps us see that business is not outside the realm of God's redemption. He talks about working closely with family and the gift that waits on the other side of conflict. Dan reminds us to be faithful in whatever job God has called us to and invite Jesus to redeem our imagination about our work. God does not ask us to create outcomes but to be faithful in the efforts.
Fear No Food by Dr. Noell Abood and Dan LeMoine
The Symphony of Mission: Playing Your Part in God's Work in the World by Michael W. Goheen and Jim Mullins
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In this episode, Jamie Moreau gracefully guides us into a conversation on politics and how to engage thoughtfully as a follower of Christ. With refreshing honesty and a hopeful perspective, she shares how God has surprised her in the process of running for local office. We talk about redefining success, God leading us unexpectedly into different roles and re-evaluating the why behind our work. Let’s dive in to this hot button topic!
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We dive right in to Season 2 with this tear-jerking first episode. Christen Byker shares about her and her husband being called overseas, God using a women's retreat to fight against fear, and her first labor and delivery that brought both a precious daughter and insurmountable challenges. This episode is one of those unforgettable stories that is hard to believe and covered in God's fingerprints. Christen challenges us to love our people fiercely, to see brokenness in light of God's Word, and to trade in shame and secrecy for vulnerability and true connection.
It's no accident that we are launching the week of Mother's Day. This episode is a tribute to all women who nurture others - the selfless mentors, the mamas who are their kids' biggest advocates, the sisters who show up, the teachers who pour into kids with special needs. Let's dive in!
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Friends, it's time to wrap up our first season. In this podcast, Whitney shares Woven Ministry's theme words for the year of provision, rest, and endurance. She talks about the relationship between these three and how prayer plays a crucial role. Stay tuned for Season 2 of Whit's End while we put these words into practice.
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Lisa Miser knows what it means to experience the goodness of God while walking through intense grief. She shares her powerful story through tears and invites us in to trust in God's faithfulness while recognizing we may never have answers to all the hard questions this side of heaven.
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It seems most fitting that the first male guest is none other than my husband Tim. In this candid interview, he takes us back to an early memory of faith in childhood and experiencing a distinct call on his life in middle school. He shares the behind the scenes struggle of living out his faith while being pulled into the party scene over nearly a decade. He talks about a hard wake up call that cost him a great deal but shifted the trajectory of his life. Finally, he touches on growing up with a legendary father figure who recently passed away, and what it means to honor his dad's legacy in big and small ways.
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This conversation is one of the most important we've recorded so far. After a painful conflict several years ago, Kelli Biles ventures into uncomfortable territory as we process rebuilding a friendship in this episode. What if Jesus' charge that the world will know Christians by our love for one another is just as much about encouraging words as it is about how we engage in conflict? What does it look like for us to love well despite hurt and disagreement? What can the church say to a world spinning on an axis of offense and division?
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In this refreshingly honest interview, Heather Brenton opens up about her journey of stepping away from social media after seeing the toxic pull it had on her. She challenges us to evaluate our motives, look closely at our personal habits, and be the odd man out in order to experience true freedom.
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Erin Daniel is the once-in-a-lifetime kind of friend who lives from an unoffendable place and invites in hard conversations. She shares about prioritizing people over profit in direct sales, shifting our mindset to view our dollars as votes in a ballot box, and learning from mistakes along the way.
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Natalie shares what it's like to be a foster parent as a single female. She describes how God has directed her steps to obediently pursue the next right thing. Natalie challenges each of us to engage the children around us from a biblical perspective and to re-think how we view prayer.
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Taylor Fontenot lives her life from a place of gratitude. She talks about a scary diagnosis as a young adult that forever shifted her perspective and caused her to see God's unbelievable, intentional kindness throughout her life.
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Melisa Gomez shares about singleness, skin color judgments, doing life with folks in different seasons and entering into pain that may be unfamiliar. Stick around till the very end for a fun surprise update in Melisa's journey.
Special thanks to Amie Finch for recording this episode!
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Mandie Psencik talks openly about a painful time of infertility and what it means to show up for people in the hurt. Her story reminds us of how God is always working, often in the most unexpected ways.
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While DeAndrea Baker just celebrated her 20th wedding anniversary, it has not been an easy road. She shares her journey about getting married as a teenager and finding God in a seemingly hopeless season.
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We flip the script and put Whitney in the hot seat.
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