Rich Devine’s Social Work Practice Podcast: Recent Episodes
Richard
Welcome to Rich Devine’s Social Work Practice Podcast. I am Rich, and I am a social worker. This podcast is about practice-related issues, self-development, and transformation. It will give you knowledge, ideas and practical tools for being an effective social worker, supporting you with practice-related issues, such as assessment skills, direct work with children, dealing with conflict, and, importantly, helping you make a positive difference in the lives of children and families.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Why do experienced professionals sometimes fail to see what is right in front of them? In this episode of Connecting Research, we explore Margaret Rustin's influential analysis of the Victoria Climbié case and her argument that professional failures in child protection are not simply the result of poor practice, incompetence, or inadequate procedures. Instead, they can reflect powerful psychological and organizational defenses against unbearable emotional realities.
Drawing on psychoanalytic concepts including turning a blind eye, avoidance of mental pain, splitting, and mindlessness, we examine how exposure to child suffering can overwhelm practitioners' capacity to think, reflect, and act. Rustin invites us to consider how social workers, health professionals, police officers, and organizations can become caught in defensive processes that obscure the meaning of what they are seeing, even when the evidence of harm is available.
The discussion explores what happens when thinking itself becomes painful, why anxiety can interfere with professional judgement, and how supervision, reflective spaces, and systemic support are essential if practitioners are to remain emotionally present with children who are suffering. Rather than locating blame solely in individuals, this episode asks how child protection systems can help workers bear the difficult realities of abuse, neglect, and trauma without turning away from them.
A thought-provoking conversation about the emotional demands of child protection and what it takes to keep children in mind when the realities they face are hardest to bear.
In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Richard's recent blog, 14 Lessons from 11 Years at Bath and North East Somerset Council, written as he prepares to leave frontline children's social work after more than a decade in B&NES and take up a leadership role in Solihull.
Together, they explore fourteen reflections shaped by years of child protection practice, relationships with children and families, mistakes, uncertainty, and the ongoing challenge of working in complex systems. The conversation covers the limits of professional influence, learning to live with impossible demands, reducing harm rather than pursuing perfect safety, and why social workers themselves help create the system they often talk about.
Rich and Tim also discuss authenticity with families, balancing compassion and accountability, the value of curiosity and "not knowing", the tensions at the heart of child protection work, and why meaningful change is often rooted in relationships rather than professional heroics.
This is a thoughtful and honest conversation about what social work teaches us over time: how to tolerate uncertainty, stay connected to people, and hold onto what matters most when there are no easy answers.
In this episode, we’re joined by former undercover drugs officer Neil Woods to explore the ideas at the heart of his book Good Cop, Bad War. Drawing on over a decade working covertly inside drug markets, Neil gives a sobering account of how the “war on drugs” actually plays out on the ground - and why, in his view, it so often makes things worse rather than better.
Neil talks about what he witnessed firsthand: the way enforcement can unintentionally strengthen organised crime, increase violence, and pull vulnerable people - especially children and young people - deeper into exploitation. He reflects on the disconnect between policy intentions and real-world impact, and how the system can end up targeting those with the least power while leaving wider harms untouched.
We also explore the personal toll of this work. Neil shares his experiences of moral injury - the strain of repeatedly acting in ways that conflict with your sense of what is right - and his experience of complex PTSD.
Turning to social work, we think about what all of this means for those supporting parents who use drugs. Rather than seeing substance use purely as a problem to be eradicated, this conversation invites a more reflective approach - one that understands the role drugs play in people’s lives, recognises the impact of trauma, and prioritises relationship-based, harm-reducing practice.
This is an honest and thought-provoking discussion about policy, practice, and the unintended consequences of intervention - and a challenge to think differently about what helpful support really looks like for families.
Contact Neil here:
https://www.neilwoods.net/contact-neil-woods
https://www.neilwoods.net/
His book is available online and on audible
In this episode, we sit down with foster carer Gareth K Thomas to explore his experiences of caring for children who have lived through trauma, and what it really means to offer trauma-informed care in practice.
Gareth shares honest reflections on the realities of foster care - the rewards, the challenges, and the emotional impact of supporting children who have experienced adversity. We talk about how trauma shows up in behaviour, how carers can make sense of what they’re seeing, and the importance of staying curious, compassionate, and regulated in the face of difficult moments.
The conversation also explores:
- What trauma-informed care looks like day-to-day
- The importance of relationships, trust, and consistency
- Supporting children without losing sight of yourself
- The wider system around foster care - what helps and what gets in the way
As ever, this is a grounded and thoughtful discussion that keeps the focus on real-life practice, not theory alone.
Gareth on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/garethkthomas/
Gareth's website:
https://garethkthomas.com/
https://www.clrfd.com/48/
Gareth's forthcoming book
https://a-z-book.com/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode, we speak with Maddy McCormack, a social worker early in her career, about the realities of stepping into practice with children and families.
Maddy reflects on her route into the role, what day-to-day social work actually looks like, and what she’s had to learn beyond training to be effective in her first year. We explore how she builds relationships with young people and their families, especially in contexts of risk, conflict, and uncertainty.
She speaks candidly about the emotional demands of the work — including doubt, moral distress, and the cases that stay with you — and how this can shape thinking and practice under pressure.
We also discuss what helps her stay relational when things are tough, what sustains her in the role, and the moments that remind her why the work matters.
An honest conversation about learning on the job, staying human, and the emotional weight of social work.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode, we sit down with Sharon Shoesmith to revisit one of the most defining and contentious moments in modern child protection: the case of Baby P, and the national reaction that followed.
Sharon reflects candidly on what it meant to become the focus of public anger—labelled, scrutinised, and ultimately removed from her role—despite leading a service that had been judged as “good” by Ofsted. We explore the personal toll of that experience and the powerful social and political forces that demand accountability in the wake of tragedy.
Drawing on psychoanalytic and social theory, the conversation moves beyond headlines to examine how society processes—and often avoids—the reality of harm to children. We discuss the idea of social workers as “containers” for collective anxiety, the “pain of knowing” about abuse, and why narratives of professional failure can feel easier to accept than confronting human cruelty within families.
We also interrogate the enduring legacy of the Baby P case: the rise of “never event” thinking, the political promise of certainty, and how fear has shaped systems that prioritise compliance over meaningful risk management.
Along the way, Sharon challenges assumptions about gender and harm, reflects on what remains unlearned, and offers a clear-eyed perspective on leadership in conditions defined by uncertainty.
This is a thoughtful, at times uncomfortable conversation about blame, denial, grief, and what it really means to safeguard children in a complex world.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode of the Messy Social Work podcast, we begin with a conversation with Natasha Dube, before Rich and Tim discuss Liz Bosanquet’s new book, Systemic Social Work Practice. The discussion explores how systemic ideas can move beyond theory and into everyday practice, helping practitioners think relationally about families, organisations and the wider systems shaping people’s lives. A conversation about curiosity, context, relationships and what systemic practice looks like in the reality of social work.
Link to Book
https://uk.jkp.com/products/systemic-social-work-practice
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this second bonus episode, Rich, Tim and Charlotte build directly on Part 1, turning their attention to the four remaining ideas from Rich’s blog on resilience in social work and exploring how these play out in practice.
The conversation moves beyond individual productivity and into the ethical and emotional costs of working under sustained pressure. Drawing on Vikki Reynolds’ work, the episode explores burnout not as a personal failing, but as a response to spiritual pain, moral distress and ethical trespassing – the harm that occurs when social workers are repeatedly required to act against their values within constrained systems.
Together, they reflect on how time pressure, risk management and organisational demands can quietly erode meaning, solidarity and hope, and why self‑care alone is never enough. Instead, the focus shifts to collective ethics, justice‑doing, and mutual accountability, asking what helps social workers remain human, connected and sustainable in the work.
The episode closes with a reframing of resilience – not as coping better alone, but as finding ways to work in solidarity, uphold shared values, and resist the pull towards isolation, cynicism or burnout in systems that are often set up to make ethical practice hard.
Vicki Reynolds: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Justice-Doing-Intersections-Power-Vikki-Reynolds/dp/0648154521/ref=asc_df_0648154521?mcid=4f50e58863e23cc9bff9cd708bb93084&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697323391178&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3967307359554161200&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006502&hvtargid=pla-716807874168&psc=1&hvocijid=3967307359554161200-0648154521-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
This episode explores time management as both a practical challenge and a lived experience in social work. Rich shares techniques such as Stephen Covey’s urgent and important quadrants, Cal Newport’s time blocking and the difference between deep and shallow work, while also being honest about how difficult these are to sustain in real practice. The conversation moves into presence, stress and pragmatism, recognising that social workers are often pulled between statutory timelines, emotional labour, family needs and constant interruptions. Tim brings in Barbara Adam’s work on time and temporality, alongside Shakespeare’s “time is out of joint”, to describe how stress can alter our experience of time. The episode ends with the idea that time management is not only about productivity, but about how we remain present, realistic and human in demanding systems.
Drawing Futures
Barbara Adam and Seth Oliver
https://graffeg.com/products/drawing-futures?srsltid=AfmBOorYwNJGBZKMmdWO1VEy2_b7YP2ZiTSzlXNqHfxBM8byjHNQAJVb
...............
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
This bonus episode picks up where the previous conversation left off. Rich and Tim return to six years of journals to explore the next three themes that emerged — the ones that didn’t fit neatly, resolve cleanly, or offer easy lessons.
They begin with work and purpose, tracing how Rich’s journals reveal a constant back‑and‑forth: ambition and exhaustion, pride and resentment, meaning and burnout. They talk about the pressure to have impact, the cost of carrying work into every corner of life, and what it’s like to slowly admit that a role you can do well may no longer be one you want — or can — sustain.
The conversation then shifts to habits, routines, and distraction. Rich reflects on years spent building systems to hold himself together — morning routines, fasting windows, time‑blocking, strict rules around focus — and how fragile those systems were in the face of poor sleep, stress, or emotional overload. Together they explore the pull of distraction, the fantasy that the “right” routine will finally work, and the fatigue that comes from constantly trying to out‑discipline your own mind.
Finally, they turn to gratitude and meaning, and the complicated way both appear in the journals. Rather than gratitude as calm or resolved, Rich describes it as something tangled up with anxiety, guilt, fear of time passing, and the effort to notice life while struggling inside it. They talk about how meaning shows up not as insight or philosophy, but in ordinary, fleeting moments — often noticed only because they feel at risk of being lost.
As with the first episode, this isn’t a story about transformation or self‑improvement. It’s about repetition, negotiation, softening, and the slow realism that comes from paying attention over time. A conversation about work that matters and costs something, habits that don’t hold, gratitude that isn’t peaceful, and the ongoing effort to live alongside yourself rather than fix yourself.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with six years of personal journals and ask a simple but uncomfortable question: what actually changed?
They focus on the first three themes that stood out when Rich reread everything back.
First, Rich reflects on the long arc of his mental health — how early journal entries framed exhaustion, irritability and low mood as problems of discipline, productivity, or personal failure, and how long it took before he had the language to name depression honestly. They talk about what it’s like to believe gratitude should cancel out sadness, and how learning to recognise patterns didn’t remove the cycles, but did change Rich’s relationship with them.
Second, they explore the gradual shift toward meditation and presence. Not as a neat self‑improvement story, but as something that moved from a ten‑minute experiment to a genuine anchor during darker periods. Rich talks about letting go of meditation as something to “get right”, the impact of retreat, and how presence started showing up in ordinary moments rather than on the cushion.
Third, the conversation turns to the body — food, exercise, fasting, running — and the years spent negotiating, arguing, and struggling for control. Rich shares what the journals reveal about shame, compulsion, relief, pride, and how physical routines were often attempts to regulate much deeper emotional states. They reflect on what softened over time, even when the patterns themselves didn’t disappear.
This isn’t an episode about fixing yourself, forming perfect habits, or finding a breakthrough. It’s about noticing repetition, learning the difference between control and acceptance, and what six years of writing things down can teach you about how you actually live with yourself.
The Interlacement of Violence: Three Temporalities of Violence in Everyday Lifehttps://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00380385251343490
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim are joined by therapist and writer Jamie Crabb to explore his powerful article Care, and Being Seen in the Presence of the Enigmatic.
Jamie reflects on what care really asks of us when things don’t make sense—when distress can’t be easily named, understood, or fixed. Drawing on his own experience of the care system, his therapeutic work, and psychoanalytic ideas, we talk about what it means to be “seen” when what is being communicated is embodied, relational, and often uncomfortable.
The conversation moves through themes of care that falters, the temptation to explain or tidy away distress, and the quieter, harder work of staying present. We discuss how experiences that are not held can travel across time, how care messages land in the body, and why being seen is never neutral.
This is an episode about resisting quick interpretations, tolerating uncertainty, and thinking more honestly about care as something felt between people rather than delivered through technique. As ever, it’s messy, thoughtful, and rooted in real lives rather than neat answers.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Janet Kay is a prominent kinship carer, trustee for the charity Kinship, and OBE recipient who advocates for families in England raising relatives' children. Based in Sheffield, she has cared for her grandson since he was 18 months old, advocating for better financial and practical support, and overcoming the "dump and run" lack of resources for caregivers.
Key Aspects of Janet Kay's Work and Experience:
- Advocacy: She serves on the Independent Review of Children's Social Care's Experts by Experience Board and works to raise awareness of the 200,000+ children in kinship care.
- Background: Formerly a social worker and lecturer, she retired early to care for her grandson.
- Support & Recognition: She highlights the urgent need for legal, financial, and emotional support for kinship carers, who often face "invisible" challenges and limited resources.
- Campaigning: She works with the charity Kinship to support carers and helps set up local peer support groups in Sheffield.
- Honours: She was awarded an OBE in the New Year's Honours for her services to kinship care.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Professor Jonathan Scourfield is a leading UK academic in social work, currently based at Cardiff University. His work spans child welfare, social care inequalities, suicide and self‑harm research, and working with men across the life course
This one https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6079816tests if participation quality (i.e., how well families said their voice was heard) was linked to outcomes and finds that yes it was, though not for all outcomes we measured.
This paper https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/s7f8g_v1 compares FGCs at three stages of the child welfare process and finds no differences among them, which is good news for promoting their use more broadly, not just for families with a child protection plan or in pre-proceedings. (the proviso being that not all outcomes improve after FGCs, but you wouldn’t really expect them to).
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
A few years ago, Rich carried out an assessment that concluded Juliette couldn’t safely care for her children. It was a difficult moment, shaped by years of substance misuse, trauma, and repeated involvement from services.
That assessment recommended residential rehabilitation.
Juliette went on to take that step.
In this conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Juliette about what was happening in her life at the time, why previous support hadn’t led to lasting change, and what was different about rehab. She shares openly about addiction, domestic abuse, and the reality of trying to rebuild a life.
Today, Juliette is clean, sober, and her children are back in her care.
This episode is about what can happen after the assessment — and what it really takes for change to occur.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Connect with Ethan here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Connect with Ethan here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this conversation, Rich and Tim and Mark Hopfenbeck explore the concept of Open Dialogue, its origins, and its application in mental health and social work. They discuss the importance of community involvement, the need for continuity in care, and the training required to develop relational skills. Mark emphasizes the significance of peer support and the challenges faced in implementing Open Dialogue in various settings. The conversation also touches on the role of evidence in validating Open Dialogue practices and the future of this approach in mental health care.
Mark's presentation at the Thrive conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EAegtEWsi4&t=2s
Professor Russell Razzaque on Radio 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUVXKrFqaqE
takeaways
Open Dialogue originated from a need for better mental health support.
The approach emphasizes community involvement and transparency.
Continuity of care is crucial for building trust and relationships.
Training in relational skills is essential for effective practice.
Open Dialogue can be adapted to diverse cultural contexts.
Peer support plays a vital role in the Open Dialogue framework.
The approach encourages flexibility in meeting arrangements.
Evidence-based practice is important for validating Open Dialogue.
Radical transparency can improve client-professional relationships.
Open Dialogue reflects the values of excellent social work.
sound bites
"It's a very human way of being."
"We can do it better, and we can do it for less."
"We can show that everyone seems to be better."
Chapters
00:00 The Origins of Open Dialogue
04:21 The Evolution of Open Dialogue Practices
08:47 The Role of Community and Relationships
13:23 Open Dialogue in Diverse Settings
17:35 Comparing Traditional and Open Dialogue Approaches
26:23 Understanding Moral Injury in Healthcare Professionals
28:44 The Impact of Open Dialogue Training
30:25 Relational Skills in Social Work
32:49 The Essence of Open Dialogue
35:28 Navigating Difficult Decisions in Mental Health
39:41 Radical Transparency and Compassion in Care
41:38 The Need for Evidence in Compassionate Care
45:21 Global Perspectives on Open Dialogue
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode, we speak with Dr Mina Fazel, a British psychiatrist who is Professor and Chair of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Oxford. Her research considers the mental health of children and young people, and how to design effective mental health interventions.
We talk to her about a recent paper: Adolescent consent and Generation Alpha: bridging policy, practice and empirical evidence in healthcare, you can download it here:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/adolescent-consent-and-generation-alpha-bridging-policy-practice-and-empirical-evidence-in-healthcare/1773C8B49A361BB55747FF7BD80F0730
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
This week, we speak to Seana, a social worker in a Child in Care Team.
We explore what her role involves, how she builds relationships with young people, carers, and families, and the challenges she faces—as well as what helps her keep going.
We’re really grateful to Seana for taking the time to talk with us, especially given how busy the role is. We hope you enjoy her passion, child‑centred practice, and commitment to the work as much as we did.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fear, guilt, and compassion, into leadership and workplace culture, challenging the “hero narrative” and calling for learning cultures and belonging in teams. The episode then widens out into ecology, community, and power, touching on what it means to “think global, act local,” and how social work can hold a wider lens on inequality, politics, and care.
Anna's LinkedIn account
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-anna-harvey-sfhea-5220563b/
and a link to her Linkedin posts
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17rJmo2bvYNpm_Bj2zT6xOuI3PreHoSm-_D4UND9R6m8/edit?tab=t.0
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work, hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fear, guilt, and compassion, into leadership and workplace culture, challenging the “hero narrative” and calling for learning cultures and belonging in teams. The episode then widens out into ecology, community, and power, touching on what it means to “think global, act local,” and how social work can hold a wider lens on inequality, politics, and care.
Anna's LinkedIn account
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-anna-harvey-sfhea-5220563b/
and a link to her Linkedin posts
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17rJmo2bvYNpm_Bj2zT6xOuI3PreHoSm-_D4UND9R6m8/edit?tab=t.0
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich and Tim are back in the studio of the Messy Social Work Podcast, shaking off the holiday cobwebs and diving straight into the age-old tradition of New Year’s resolutions. Tim’s on a mission to set some firm boundaries, while Rich is dreaming of carving out a little breathing space—because who doesn’t need that in social work?
But that’s not all. We’ve got our roving news correspondent and Community Care editor, Mithran Samuels, joining us to give the lowdown on what’s changing across children’s social care and what’s on the horizon for the year ahead.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich and Tim are joined by Andrew Turnell to reflect on 2025.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
In this episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, we sit down with Professor Donald Forrester, researcher and social worker.
We talk about why he thinks social workers are a bit like Nanny McPhee, why social work isn’t really about “helping,” and why conflict sits at the heart of the work we do. Donald shares the stories behind some of his most memorable anecdotes—from the baseball bat incident to the £20 haircut—and what they taught him about dignity, power, and human connection.
We dig into whether there’s space for love in social work, how rights and relationships can coexist, and the traps practitioners fall into when we find ourselves telling parents what to do instead of listening. As a foster carer, Donald also reflects on what really makes a good social worker, what we get wrong about outcomes, and why change is so hard—and so hopeful.
Plus, we finish with 10 quick-fire questions, where Donald reveals everything from the books that shaped him to his favourite motivational interviewing technique.
Check out the Enlightened Social Worker here and more about Donald here
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich and Tim sit down with Charlotte Clark, a practising frontline child protection social worker, to explore what it means to build trust in contexts where distrust runs deep. From navigating statutory power dynamics to managing conflict under intense pressure, Charlotte shares insights from her early career journey, reporting from the frontline and reflects on the relational skills that matter most.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Full research and report found here
https://kinship.org.uk/our-work-and-impact/research/raised-by-relatives/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
This week on Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim take a deep dive into Darren McGarvey’s The Trauma Industrial Complex — a book that pulls no punches about how society packages, sells, and performs trauma.
We explore McGarvey’s core argument that trauma has become a kind of cultural currency, often stripped of nuance and turned into content. We talk about the emotional labour placed on lived-experience workers, the myths of the “hero’s journey,” and the three layers of victimhood: victimhood, victim mentality and the victim complex.
We also reflect on McGarvey’s honesty about his own narrative, including the four fundamental flaws he uncovered in his story and what this means for real recovery.
If you work in social care, mental health, youth work, or community settings — or you’ve ever felt the tension between compassion, truth and accountability — this episode will stay with you.
You can purchase the Trauma Industrial Complex here
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this Connecting Research episode, we speak to a lecturer and researcher at University College London, Dr Patrizia Pezzoli, about an article she co-authored, titled: Lived-experience perspectives on the psychological factors linking childhood maltreatment to later intimate partner violence victimization.
See paper here which is available OPEN ACCESS.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we have a returning guest: social worker and team manager Toni Mayo.
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we explore the tension between the fast-paced, task-driven nature of social work and the deeper need for presence, reflection, and meaning.
Rhian Taylor shares insights from her recent blog on why it’s so hard for practitioners to stop—and how doing so can radically improve our wellbeing and the quality of our practice.
We talk about:
- The systemic pressures that reward constant “doing”
- The emotional and professional cost of never stopping
- How rest, reflection, and inner awareness can reconnect us with our values and vocation
- Practical ways social workers can integrate “being” into their everyday work
Rhian’s blog: Integrating doing and being in health and social care: Why we find it so hard to stop and how it could radically help us
Retreat:
Integrating Doing and Being | Othona West Dorset
https://www.othonawestdorset.org.uk/
Rhian Taylor e-mail: rhian.c.taylor@outlook.com
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Context Counts: Improving the analysis of socio-economic context and intersectionality in Local Child Safeguarding Practice Reviews: https://www.techne.ac.uk/research-and-education/departments-and-schools/law-and-criminology/research/our-projects-and-research-impact/context-counts-improving-the-analysis-of-socio-economic-context-and-intersectionality-in-local-child-safeguarding-practice-reviews/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Josh MacAlister has said he’d like children to have a choice of where and with whom they live:
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/02/children-in-care-should-have-choice-of-where-and-with-whom-they-live-says-macalister/
Applications to register children’s homes are rocketing, such that Ofsted is having to prioritise applications, leaving others having to wait up to 18 months.
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/13/some-childrens-homes-face-waits-of-up-to-18-months-to-register-under-new-ofsted-policy/
Also, spending on looked-after children ate up all of the increase in spending in children’s services in 2024-25, with such spending pressures generally attributed to significant rises in residential care costs.
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/09/24/childrens-services-spending-increase-absorbed-entirely-by-care-system-last-year-figures-show/
Community Care Live from Jahnine Davis, on her findings from a year as the kinship ambassador.
In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim speak with Dr Paul Shuttleworth about his new book Listening to Children about Kinship Care: Child Welfare and Permanence. Drawing on powerful research and direct testimony from children and young people, Paul shares what they say really matters when professionals make decisions about kinship care, permanence, and support.
We explore:
- Why listening to children is essential in kinship care planning
- The emotional and relational complexities of kinship arrangements
- How professionals can better respond to what children actually need
- The implications for policy, practice, and ethical social work
This conversation is a must-listen for anyone working in child welfare, fostering, or family support — and for those committed to centering children's voices in decision-making.
Paul's book; FREE to download: https://policy.bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/listening-to-children-about-kinship-care-child-welfare-and-permanence
Paul and Sarah's podcast; https://rpkp27vtwpz24.podbean.com/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we explore why lived experience has become such a dominant force in social work, and ask: what are we missing when we treat it as unquestionable truth? Dr Stabler helps us think critically about how stories are used, who gets to tell them, and what happens when experience becomes currency. This is a conversation about ethics, representation, and the uncomfortable edges of practice.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, Rich and Tim: How to Succeed at Failing, we reflect on the times we’ve got it wrong — professionally and personally — and explore why failure isn’t just inevitable, but essential. From missteps to lessons learned, we talk about how embracing failure can lead to growth, insight, and even unexpected success.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this thoughtful and research-informed conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Professor Rick Barth about his influential article, “Ten Common Child Welfare Misconceptions.” The episode explores how widely held beliefs about child protection and foster care often diverge from evidence and practice realities.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Professor Harry Ferguson—one of the most influential thinkers in contemporary social work. Together, they explore the evolution of the profession, the emotional and embodied nature of frontline practice, and what we’ve learned from decades of child death enquiries. Harry reflects on the importance of relationships, the complexity of risk, and why social work must be both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. A must-listen for anyone interested in the heart, history, and future of social work.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent activist, about losing his children, the long road to recovery, and eventual reunification. Together, they explore how parents, social workers, and foster carers can collaborate more compassionately. Rich and Tim also reflect on their own experiences of shame — how it’s shaped their work and personal lives — and what it means for practice and healing.
Connect with Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-crouch-257ab2248/
Check out the hopeful disruptors event: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/reshaping-the-landscape-of-childrens-social-work-tickets-1374435115429?aff=oddtdtcreator
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Social Work England fee rise and increase in fitness to practise case numbers
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/24/social-work-england-presses-ahead-with-33-fee-rise-despite-huge-practitioner-opposition/
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/25/social-work-england-fee-hike-unjustifiable-and-based-on-tokenistic-consultation-warn-unison-and-basw/
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/29/psw-networks-sound-alarm-over-social-work-england-fee-rise/
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/08/14/huge-rise-in-fitness-to-practise-concerns-about-social-workers/
Improving performance in children’s services – according to Ofsted
In this conversation, Rich and Tim explore how writing isn’t just for blogs or books—it’s a powerful tool for social workers to think more clearly, practice more effectively, and create new opportunities.
Drawing on their own experiences, they discuss how the simple act of putting words on a page sharpens reflection, deepens analysis, and helps communicate ideas with confidence.
Whether you’re looking to improve your day-to-day practice, strengthen your professional voice, or even open unexpected doors, this episode makes the case for why every social worker should write.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim debate (and disagree about): are social workers failing families by ignoring the system?
It’s just the two of us this time, diving into one of the biggest tensions in the profession. Should we focus our energy on helping individual families build safety and stability? Or is that just papering over the cracks of a system that keeps producing harm?
We’ve got strong opinions — and we don’t always agree
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Dr Lorna Stabler's research can be found here.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Connect with Cordie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordie-gwilym/
Mithran's CC articles:
- A guide to the reforms: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/10/the-dfes-child-protection-and-family-support-reforms-explained/
- An interview with Eileen Munro, in which she voiced significant criticisms of the changes: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/03/munro-childrens-social-care-reforms-very-likely-to-fail-due-to-scale-of-change-and-lack-of-testing/
- A response to the Munro piece from a group of social workers, in which they shared similar views to hers: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/17/over-ambitious-and-risk-laden-social-workers-share-concerns-about-childrens-social-care-reforms/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this conversation, Rasheed Nicholas John Pendry shares his journey into social work, highlighting the transformative impact of systemic ideas and personal experiences on his professional practice.
He discusses the importance of relationships in social work, the need for cultural change within organisations, and innovative practices in family therapy. Rashid also reflects on the complexities of adoption and the significance of kinship care, emphasising the role of curiosity and emotional availability in effective social work practice.
Takeaways
- Rasheed Pendry chose social work to make a difference.
- Transformative ideas in social work can change practice.
- Personal experiences shape professional identities.
- Systemic approaches help navigate complex family dynamics.
- Cultural change in organisations starts with kindness.
- Family therapy can be creatively applied in practice.
- Understanding risk requires examining personal responses.
- Adoption systems need to be re-evaluated for effectiveness.
- Curiosity is essential for social workers.
- Social work is fundamentally a therapeutic profession.
Chapters
00:00 Rasheed's Journey into Social Work
14:22 The Impact of Systemic Ideas
18:16 Critique of Social Work Training
21:36 Personal Transformation through Systemic Ideas
25:36 Navigating Adoption and Its Long-term Effects
28:54 Understanding Relationships and Attachment
32:42 Systemic Interventions in Practice
34:47 Navigating Identities and Relationships
39:18 Transforming Institutions with Systemic Ideas
47:28 Reimagining Adoption Practices
49:57 Essential Systemic Ideas for Social Workers
53:09 Understanding Risk in Social Work
54:51 The Role of Lived Experience in Practice
57:03 Introduction to Relational Activism
58:31 The Poem of Compassion
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode of "Messy Social Work," hosts Rich Devine and Tim Fisher engage in a profound conversation with Clarissa Stevens, a seasoned youth worker and relational activist. Clarissa shares her journey from a challenging upbringing to becoming a pivotal figure in youth advocacy. She delves into the emotional landscape of teenagers, offering insights into how professionals can connect with young people. Clarissa's story is one of resilience and transformation, highlighting the importance of building trust and providing genuine support to empower the next generation. Tune in to discover valuable lessons for social workers and anyone passionate about making a difference in the lives of young people.
Clarissa Stevens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarissa-s-4b7438132/
Peer Power Youth: https://www.peerpower.org.uk/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this conversation, Kevin Campbell discusses the profound impact of family separation policies, particularly in the context of child welfare and legal action against the Trump administration. He emphasizes the importance of family connections, innovative approaches in child protection, and the role of social workers in supporting youth. The discussion also covers the significance of understanding child development, building support networks, and the future of kinship care in community involvement.
Other key takeaways from Kevin:
- Family connections are crucial for child development.
- Aging out of care presents significant challenges for youth.
- Social workers play a vital role in supporting families.
- Building support networks can enhance youth resilience.
- Understanding the science of child development is essential.
- Practical strategies can empower social workers in their roles.
- Kinship care is a critical component of child welfare.
Kevin Campbell; https://www.familyfinding.org/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Mithran's articles:
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/4bn-a-year-more-available-for-adult-social-care-by-2028-29-in-spending-review/
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/spending-review-childrens-services-cash-boost-means-labour-delivering-on-care-review-macalister/
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/17/casey-dfe-must-urgently-investigate-fall-in-number-of-child-sexual-abuse-cases-recorded-by-councils/
https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/19/commission-reviews-law-on-kinship-care/
We’re joined by the brilliant Professor Jill Derrick from the University of California, Berkeley, for a compelling and thought-provoking conversation on the complexities of child protection practice.
From the competing tensions social workers navigate to the moral distress they often face, Jill offers deep insight into the impossible decisions that define the field. We examine the moral implications behind these choices and the challenging task of evaluating different forms of alternative care.
Jill was a generous, articulate, and deeply thoughtful guest. While we only scratched the surface—touching on just one of her books—we’re left inspired by her extensive body of research and writing.
Buckle in for a wide-ranging discussion that will leave you reflecting long after the episode ends.
Jill Berrick: https://socialwelfare.berkeley.edu/people/jill-duerr-berrick
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode with speak with Duane Phillips, Senior Social Worker at Coventry City Council. We talk about:
- Duane's experience growing up mixed heritage
- working with children, families and community
- Duane's experience working as a family support worker and running groups for men
- Being a male social worker
- And much more...
We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did.
Connect with Duane: https://www.linkedin.com/in/duane-phillips-0656b7180/?originalSubdomain=uk
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
This week, we have our first-ever return guest, Terri Anne, who shares the important work of the Care Leavers Association and delves into her exploration of the emotional rollercoaster of retrieving and reading her care files.
Tim interviews care leaver Liana Karim and Jo about their National Voice Project, and some stark findings from a massive study involving care-experienced adults. Liana reads out a spectacular poem that Tim first heard at the inaugural One Voice Summit in London last month. Her powerful message to children in care, care leavers and policymakers – and her heartfelt thanks to social workers – is other worldly and we were so grateful for her coming on to share it with us.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, Rich and Tim and live and in person in Rich's living - they unpack 10 lessons from Rich's experience in child protection, with Tim surprising Rich with a Paxman style interview, quizzing and questioning his central ideas. Do they withstand the scrutiny, tune in to find out.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we speak to Professor Clive Diaz, a music producer who has also worked as a social worker, principal social worker, researcher, professor, and psychoanalytical psychotherapist.
We discuss the relevance of psychoanalytical ideas in modern social work, such as transference, countertransference, the unconscious, and much more. Can these ideas really help us as social workers, or should we avoid overanalysing and offer practical help?
We also ask Clive the top 10 quick-fire questions about his morning routine, the meaning of life, and whether, if in need, he would call a therapist or social worker.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
This week, we speak with George Fielding, BEM, a disability rights activist and social care leader. He was the first child in his area to go to a mainstream school in a wheelchair. Since then, he’s worked with charities like Whizz-Kidz, mentored over 100 disabled people, and received an MBE.
George also set up two care organisations that focus on dignity, choice, and helping people live the lives they want. He’s recently appeared on news channels to discuss current disability issues and changes to disability legislation. This week, he’s been doing wheelies in a prison—and we ask him all about it.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine explore the complexities of child protection social work.
They discuss the myths surrounding the profession, the importance of relationships, and the challenges social workers face in balancing their roles. Rich shares insights from his book, addressing misconceptions about the ability of social workers to keep children safe and happy, and emphasizes the significance of understanding the process over the outcome in social work. The conversation highlights the emotional and ethical dimensions of the profession, encouraging a deeper reflection on the nature of social work and its impact on families.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode of the newly named podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Rich's blog; 15 Years in Social Work – And 4 Reasons I am Still Not a Manager.
Rich qualified as a social worker 15 years ago and has never held a management role. This has been a deliberate choice. He has remained working directly with children and families.
There are four key reasons why Rich and Tim unpack.
- Relationships
- I haven't stopped learning
- Leadership isn't determined by job role
- Practice experience cultivates wisdom
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we interview Professor Anna Gupta about her early experiences as a social worker, her transition into academia, and her important work on poverty and intersectionality in the context of child protection.
We explore:
-
The social model
-
intersectionality
-
The role of poverty in child abuse and neglect
-
The capabilities approach
Here is the link to the powerful Archie Roach song ‘They took the children away’ that Anna discussed during the podcast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL_DBNkkcSE&list=RDIL_DBNkkcSE&start_radio=1&rv=IL_DBNkkcSE
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode of the Relational Activism in Social Work podcast, asides Tim's nice hair and the clay....
Tim Fisher FRSA and Richard Devine discuss the powerful insights from James Hollis' Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life. They explore the challenges of midlife, from the loss of purpose in previously fulfilling careers to the struggle between ego and soul. Rich shares his personal experience of re-evaluating his life's work, shedding light on embracing change and finding true meaning. A good listen for those navigating personal or professional transitions.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we interview Jamie Spencer, who holds the position of 'Head of Insight, Quality, Financial Services, and Digital for Camden Adult Social Care'. However, don't let that job title deter you from listening, as Jamie has had a fascinating journey through social care from support worker to senior leader and has been at the forefront of driving change at Camden Council.
We had some slight technical issues, so please forgive our post editing and stitching together of this conversation.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we speak to Professor Andrew Turnell, co-creator of Signs of Safety. In January 2023, he received the Member of the Order of Australia award for his sustained and innovative contributions to child protection social work. Andrew is internationally renowned for his ground-breaking work in developing safety-organized, solution-focused, and systemic approaches to statutory child protection practice and organisation. He has published extensively on the Signs of Safety, the Resolutions approach to ‘denied’ child abuse, and applying solution-focused practice to complex cases of torture, abuse, and violence.
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Opening Discussion: Teaching & Activism
Conversation with Lee: Care Experience, Prison, and Activism
Lee’s Background:
- Grew up in care, moving through 28+ placements.
- Entered the justice system at 17, receiving a 5-year sentence
Lee talks about:
- The Impact of the Fellowship & Retreat
- Reflects on the Justice System & Care Experience
- Describes the cycle of placement breakdowns leading to further instability.
- Critiques the justice system for failing to recognize trauma and providing inadequate mental health support.
- Notes how prison officers often viewed him as “a problem” rather than exploring underlying issues.
Reflections & Closing Thoughts:
Rich: Shares personal insights from retreat experiences, including the significance of eye contact in developing intimacy and emotional connection.
Tim: Celebrates Lee’s resilience and activism, highlighting his drive to influence change at both a grassroots and policy level. Emphasizes the importance of mutual support, professional collaboration, and finding strength in lived experience.
Eckhart Tolle Reflection:
“When you make friends with the present moment, you feel at home, no matter where you are.”
Key Takeaways:
- Care & Stability Matter: Placement moves impact trust and stability for young people.
- Prisons Need Trauma-Informed Approaches: Labeling and pathologizing behavior without support fuels further harm.
- Lived Experience is a Powerful Force for Change: People like Lee bring invaluable insights to reform efforts.
- Connection Heals: Simple, human interactions—whether in public living rooms or through eye contact—can be transformational.
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode of the Relation Activism in Social Work podcast, hosts Tim Fisher and Rich Devine engage in a lively discussion that covers a range of topics from personal anecdotes about daily life to reflections on their university experiences and the challenges faced in direct work with children in social work.
They also touch on upcoming professional events and introduce guest Charlotte Spires, who shares insights on community dynamics and gentrification in Bristol.
The conversation delves into the complexities of conflict within social work, exploring its fundamental role in the profession. Tim, Rich and Charlotte discuss the misconceptions surrounding social work, the realities of managing relationships with families, and the importance of trust and change. They highlight the inherent tensions between the rights of parents and children and the challenges social workers face in navigating these conflicts.
The discussion emphasises the need for humility, understanding, and recognising the systemic factors influencing family dynamics.
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
This episode explores the profound complexities of addiction, trauma, and recovery, featuring the deeply personal and inspiring journey of guest Ian Thomas, a social worker and speaker with lived experience of addiction and healing.
In this conversation, we cover:
Understanding Addiction and Trauma
Drawing from Gabor Maté’s In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, the discussion highlights addiction as a response to trauma, rooted in biological, psychological, and social factors. Ian reflects on his personal battle with addiction, describing substances as a “medicine” for unhealed pain and trauma, and shares poignant moments from his recovery journey.
The Power of Connection and Compassion
Ian recounts how a solicitor’s kindness and non-judgmental approach helped him acknowledge his need for change, emphasizing the transformative power of compassion and human connection in recovery. Rich builds on this, encouraging social workers to see beyond behaviours and recognize the underlying pain and unmet needs of those they support.
Social Work and Relational Practice
The conversation underscores the critical role of social workers in fostering trust, compassion, and understanding. Rich and Ian discuss how professionals can balance empathy with accountability, offering practical insights into working with parents struggling with substance misuse.
Links:
Contact Ian Thomas: Email at ianpresents@gmail.com or connect via LinkedIn for speaking engagements or workshops: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-thomas-5b573a100/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine kick off 2025 with reflections on personal and professional goals, recent events, and an inspiring conversation with guest Vicki Shevlin, creator of Social Work Sorted. The discussion explores social work practice, personal growth, and the profession’s challenges.
Key Highlights:
- Personal Reflections and Goals:
•Rich emphasizes living an ego-balanced life, inspired by James Hollis, while Tim focuses on reading and lifelong learning.
•They discuss balancing professional aspirations with personal well-being.
- Love Shows Up Event:
•A celebration of the “Love Shows Up” Valentine’s Day event and the importance of relational activism in social work.
- Guest Interview – Vicki Shevlin:
•Vicki shares her transition to independent practice, her mantra “Go where the love is,” and her support for newly qualified social workers (NQSWs).
•The discussion covers boundaries, empathy, and authentic family connections.
- The Role of Social Media:
•Vicki reflects on building a social work community online and balancing its opportunities and challenges.
- Final Reflections:
•The episode closes with a reading from Eckhart Tolle, focusing on acceptance and awareness.
Links:
Vicki Shevlin: https://www.socialworksorted.com/aboutme
Vicki's podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1926820
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine are joined by Becca Carr-Hopkins for a powerful conversation about use of self, attachment theory, and the transformative power of relationships in social work practice.
Becca shares her journey into social work, insights on adapting to challenging environments, and how understanding attachment can unlock deeper connections with families. Rich reflects on the profound impact of supervision that centre's emotions and relationships, while Becca explores the importance of creating space for reflection in emotionally charged work.
Whether you’re a practitioner, student, or someone interested in the human side of social work, this episode is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom.
🎧 Listen now to explore:
• How attachment and adaptation shape behaviour
• The role of self-awareness in relational practice
• Why reflective supervision is essential for growth
Check out Becca's work here:
https://iswmatters.co.uk/
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
The podcast focuses on two main themes: assessing capacity to change in social work and a parent’s personal journey through the child protection system.
Part 1: Assessing Capacity to Change
Rich Devine shares insights from his 14 years in social work, focusing on the challenges of evaluating a parent’s capacity to change within child protection contexts.
-
Challenges in Assessing Change:
-
A Framework for Assessing Capacity to Change:
Part 2: A Parent’s Perspective – Lee’s Story
Lee Crouch shares his personal journey of transformation from losing custody of his children to their eventual reunification.
- The Initial Crisis:
• Struggled with substance misuse, unresolved grief, and anger, which led to the removal of his children.
• Court proceedings felt dismissive of his early efforts to change, compounding frustration.
- The Turning Point:
• A program with SWIFT (a support service) helped Lee learn to process emotions, manage anger, and face his struggles directly.
• “Talking” became a key tool for change, allowing him to release emotions constructively and improve relationships.
- Rebuilding Trust and Contact:
• Despite resistance from the local authority, Lee and his partner advocated for increased contact with their children.
• Over time, consistent effort and collaboration with foster carers and social workers led to more contact and eventually reunification.
- Lessons Learned:
• Lee emphasizes the importance of addressing root causes (e.g., addiction, grief) rather than merely imposing parenting courses.
• He advocates for a supportive network for parents in similar situations and stresses the need for proactive interventions before crises escalate.
The episode concludes with reflections on embracing the present moment, acknowledging the constant potential for change and growth in the “now.”
We hope you enjoyed this episode, please do contact us and share your reflections. If you have any questions or topics you would like us to explore, do get in touch:
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Tim's article:
https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/138533/bernheim-et-al-2024-the-power-and-potential-of-space-and-place-in-family-group-conferencing-reimagining-the-role-of-the.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
We hope you enjoyed this episode, please do contact us and share your reflections. If you have any questions or topics you would like us to explore, do get in touch:
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Tim Fisher and Rich Devine kick off with reflections on culture and connection, inspired by recent experiences, including Rich’s first trip to the theatre to watch Les Misérables. They discuss the profound impact of stories and how creative expressions like theatre offer fresh perspectives on justice, empathy, and the challenges of human connection.
The episode’s highlight is a conversation with Renata, a dedicated social worker in East Sussex and the first storyteller in the Friday Story initiative. She shares her approach to relationship-based practice and describes a memorable experience supporting a young boy with autism, Henry, who faced bullying at school. Renata’s gentle, persistent help in teaching Henry daily routines led to improved confidence for him and his family—a powerful example of social work’s impact.
The discussion also touches on the importance of self-care, empathy, and resilience. Inspired by Vikki Reynolds’ ideas on solidarity teams, Tim and Rich emphasise the need for supportive relationships to sustain social workers in their roles.
This week’s episode encourages listeners to celebrate the small acts of kindness that make a big difference and reminds us that in social work, sometimes “to love is to act.”
We hope you enjoyed this episode, please do contact us and share your reflections. If you have any questions or topics you would like us to explore, do get in touch:
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this week’s episode of the Relational Activism and Social Work Podcast, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine dive into strategies for social workers when feeling “stuck” in cases, especially in longstanding family dynamics where change can be elusive. Rich introduces a framework for recognizing situational and psychological denial in families, exploring the defensive mechanisms that arise in challenging times and how social workers can respond with empathy and clarity. They also discuss the balance between addressing root issues directly and strengthening a family’s support network around the child, highlighting how meaningful change can occur from various angles.
The episode further delves into actionable techniques, like clarifying expectations and outcomes with families and understanding critical causes of both danger and change to avoid overwhelming interventions. Drawing from practice wisdom and Andrew Turnell’s academic insights, they explore the importance of “on the ground” experience as opposed to only theoretical knowledge, raising thoughtful questions on the role of frontline voices in social work discourse.
With ideas that encourage both reflection and practical application, this episode is rich in insights for social work practitioners seeking grounded approaches to their daily challenges.
Links:
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/
Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode of Relational Activism in Social Work, hosts Tim Fisher and Rich Devine are joined by Terri-Anne Hamer, a care-experienced activist, who shares her powerful journey of overcoming intergenerational challenges and finding her voice within the care community. Terri-Anne reflects on her unique path, discussing her experiences as a third-generation care-experienced individual, her role as a kinship carer for her brother, and the emotional process of understanding her identity. She highlights the transformative power of storytelling for care leavers and discusses her work with the Care Leavers Association, particularly its commitment to connecting care leavers of all ages through initiatives like Care Leavers Connected and a new digital inclusion data bank.
Tim and Rich explore the impact of trauma and shame, with Rich sharing his own journey around self-worth and validation. Together, they consider how understanding one’s story can reshape identity positively. Terri-Anne emphasises the importance of systems that support care leavers beyond the age of 25 and underscores how resilience, connection, and community support empower individuals to move forward.
The episode closes with Tim reading an inspiring poem on identity and potential, followed by Rich’s “Eckhart Tolle roulette” reading, which encourages listeners to look beyond worldly achievements and find peace in understanding the essence of who they are. This episode blends humour and vulnerability, showcasing the resilience of care-experienced individuals and the meaningful impact of relational activism in social work.
You can find Terri Anne on LinkedIn and Twitter:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/terri-anne-hamer-82b850304/
https://x.com/tahamer80
And learn more about The Care Leavers Association here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+care+leavers+association&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB973GB973&oq=the+care+leavers+association&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyDQgBEC4YrwEYxwEYgAQyCggCEAAYgAQYogQyCggDEAAYgAQYogQyCggEEAAYgAQYogQyBggFEEUYPDIGCAYQRRg80gEINDA0OWoxajSoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
In this episode, Rich kicks things off by admitting his secret fuel: a double-double coffee (that's double strength, double shot!)—the only thing that kept him going through late nights in child protection. He then dives into his approach to direct work with children, sharing insights that go beyond caffeine-fuelled energy.
We’re also treated to a voice note from social worker and TEDx speaker, Ian Thomas, who blends personal experience, professional wisdom, academic insight, and a dash of spiritual clarity in a way only he can. And, in honour of Black History Month, Tim reflects on the timeless teachings of Maya Angelou, adding depth and heart to the discussion.
In this episode, Rich and Tim explore the practicalities of analysis. Rich draws on his wealth of experiences and deep dives into analysis. Tim showcases his podcasting skills with an expertly timed musical interlude, which allows Tim and Rich to transition smoothly to talk about the Relational Activism Manifesto. Finally, we say goodbye before concluding with an Eckart Tolle quote—no, wait, we then say goodbye again!
In this episode we speak with Team Manager of a Family Placement Team, Toni Mayo. She talked about:
- Different types of kindship care arrangements
- How LA's can improve their support for Kinship Carers
- How Social workers can support Kinship Carers
Tim shares his experience of attending the Kempe Conference, and learning about the Family Finding Model developed by Kevin Campbell, and finally we touch upon FGC.
In this episode, we speak to the brilliant and wonderful, Kar-Man. She generously and articulately shares her story and experience of social workers engaging with her.
We talk about Kinship Care Week (07th -014th October), referencing the following:
https://kinship.org.uk/get-involved/kinship-care-week/
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/championing-kinship-care-national-kinship-care-strategy
https://issuu.com/coram8/docs/incorporating_what_matters_to_children_into_kinshi
Finally we talk about Family Group Conferences - the benefits of them and challenges to overcome when introducing them to families.
This week Tim Fisher and Rich Devine explore the role of story in social work and how we define parental engagement.
The link for Rhian Taylor's book is here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fosterboy-Rhian-Taylor/dp/183816202X
https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Fosterboy-by-Rhian-Taylor/9781838162023
The Gaps website article discussed is here - https://gaps.org.uk/how-to-make-a-social-worker-reflections-on-social-work-education/
E-mail for Rhian: Rhian.c.taylor@outlook.com
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Relational Activism Webinar Series:
https://www.relationalactivism.com/upcoming
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
This week I interview Rob Tucker, Director and Independent Social Work Consultant at RGT Training and Consultancy Ltd.
He is one of the most impressive and inspiring social workers I have met. I wish every social worker had the chance to learn from Rob about communication skills with children. In my view, he is unparalleled in his knowledge, skill and has an infectious passion for the work. If you want to get in touch with Rob, you can reach out to him on his Linked-in Page. I couldn't recommend him highly enough.
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Relational Activism Webinar Series:
https://www.relationalactivism.com/upcoming
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Relational Activism Webinar Series:
https://www.relationalactivism.com/upcoming
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Relational Activism Webinar Series:
https://www.relationalactivism.com/upcoming
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
Vicki Shevlins website, podcast, and new, brilliant assessment guide
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Relational Activism Webinar Series:
https://www.relationalactivism.com/upcoming
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
BASW Child Protection Master Class Series:
https://www.basw.co.uk/basw-child-protection-masterclass-series
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode I some learning from recent training on attachment delivered by Rebecca Carr-Hopkins. Check her out here: https://iswmatters.co.uk
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode I explore ideas and principles that I learned over the years to manage time more effectively.
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode I explore ideas and principles that I learned over the years to manage time more effectively.
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode I interview Professor Colin Pritchard, a distinguished academic and in my experience, a lovely, generous, wise individual. Professor Colin Pritchard is an Emeritus Professor, School of Medicine, University of Southampton and Visiting Professor at Dept Psychiatry and Research Professor in Psychiatric Social Work, Bournemouth University.
I watched a youtube series of him being interviewed by Richard Williams - I watched all of them over two days, and found them captivating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aB5mjaSnaY&list=PLojsAdAKgOvoP2n317wFqQyRL3QwxTWPq
His research can be found here, and the article discussed in this episode' who kills children' can be found here.
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
Building on the conversation from last week's episode with Danny and Mike from Lads Like Us, I explore professional curiosity and #askwhy that they passionately and eloquently advocated for. I explore the same topic from a practical and practice point of view. I share tips and principles that facilitate compassion and professional curiosity with adults and children.
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode, I am joined by Danny and Mike from Lads Like Us. We talk about:
- trauma, ACEs, criminal behaviour, gangs
- unmet need, unresolved trauma and the path of self destruction
- The importance of making sense of who you are
- professional curiosity
- weaponising empathy
- The power of 1
- recovery, healing and discovering your potential
Mike and Danny are incredibly thoughtful, thought provoking speakers using their lived experience to bring about a trauma informed revolution. They are two of most inspiring men I have ever met. I couldn't speak highly enough of them, and I felt privileged getting the chance to speak with them. You can find them here, https://twitter.com/Lads_Like_Us and here, https://www.ladslikeus.co.uk.
Recently, they teamed up Artist Manchester Hypes, to produce this song, which is exceptional:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOh0q1Byjwk
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode I am joined by social worker and colleague Andy Black, and we reflect on a great question by Rebecca Key, 'how do you walk the fine balance between curiosity, care and compassion for the experiences of a parent without this clouding your judgment or waiting too long to intervene and take action to secure the child permanence and safety in their time scales'. We are very grateful to Rebecca for her question, and if anyone has any comments or feedback, please get in touch.
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode I am joined by social worker and colleague Andy Black, and we reflect on some key learning from John Burnham who attended a recent conference in BANES.
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
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In this episode I explore the term 'she prioritise her own needs above her childs'.
The essay can be found here: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/2020/06/19/she-prioritises-her-own-needs-above-her-childs/
Any questions please contact me on richdevinesocialwork@gmail.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
In this episode I explore whether, in child protection, to build therapeutic relationships. I argue that social work is inherently conflictual, which makes this difficult and explore how we can build meaningful and impactful relationships.
The essay can be found here: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/2022/10/31/relationship-based-practice-in-child-protection-an-insurmountable-problem/
Any questions please contact me on richarddevine87@icloud.com
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.
An introduction to the podcast, who I am and my journey into social work. A massive thank you to Vicki, from Social Work sorted who is an inspiration and gave very helpful advice, DO NOT MISS her podcast: https://www.socialworksorted.com/aboutme
Connect with me on: https://twitter.com/RichardDevineSW
Follow my blog, where you can be sent fortnightly blogs on topics covered on this podcast: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/
If you enjoyed this episode, please share with your friends, and leave a review - positive, or negative, all feedback welcome.