Adoptees Crossing Lines: Recent Episodes
Dr. Noelle, Tosha, Lia
This podcast is by three black adoptees sharing their experience and truth. This isn't your feel good podcast, we are angry, healing and honest adoptees.
Mila's Truth: Navigating Adoption, Liberation, and Community
The Church does an excellent job of silencing you if you oppose them. They’d even hire a marketing company to rebrand adoption so that their business as adoption middlemen can continue to thrive. But, it’s not just the Church. The dominant culture is to silence anyone who speaks up against adoption. To make them feel shame. To gaslight them. That was Mila Konomos’ experience once she realized how adoption has wounded her.
Mila tells her story of how she was forcibly removed from her family in 1975 to the realization in 2009 that everything she thought she knew about adoption was a lie. She discusses how reuniting with her biological parents changed everything, how similar she realized she was hto her bio parents, grappling with her identity, the power of speaking up, and the cultural resistance against accepting the truth about adoption.
Mila is the host of the podcast called Everything You Think You Know About Adoption Is A Lie.
“If you don't change the narrative, then you can't change the policies.”
What we discussed
(00:22) Who is Mila Kanomos?
(01:39) Being a (clueless) grateful adoptee
(04:25) Realizing I’m actually wounded
(06:00) “You had this information all of my life?!”
(08:24) The Last Unicorn
(12:55) Terrified of opposing adoption publicly
(15:50) The Church is complicit
(18:23) Propaganda around adoption
(19:38) Surviving reunion
(22:04) How do I become Korean?
(25:39) Biological traits & connections
(30:55) Everything you know about adoption is a lie
(36:43) Church PAID to rebrand adoption
(41:03) Centering adoptee narratives
(44:47) Adoption IS oppression
(49:03) What can you do about this?
(55:51) You already know who you are
Links
Everything You Think You Know About Adoption Is A Lie Podcast
Child Catchers by Catherine Joyce
Connect with Mila: Instagram | Podcast Instagram
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
My Journey To Abolition
Every adult in my childhood has failed me, none of them did what they’re supposed to. Every part of the system failed me…it did exactly what it’s supposed to. The system kills children and breaks families, it must be abolished. In this episode, I share how I gradually evolved towards this deep belief starting from a school trip to juvie when I was just 10. I talk about my encounters with the family policing system growing up and how it failed me.
My story is not an is not an anomaly or an isolated incident. This is the experience of many children who are victims of the family policing system that they carry with them through adulthood.
Abolition is a journey toward collective liberation, this is my journey so far…
[CW: Sexual and Physical Abuse]
What we discussed
(00:22) Taking a trip to juvie at 10 years old
(03:42) The system is NOT broken
(04:42) [CW] Punished for speaking up about abuse
(07:30) Losing faith in adoption, police, and the system OR My first encounter with family policing system
(10:32) Going to school with bruises on my arm OR “You had a really good school year because DCF did not show up at my door” OR DCF shows up, I’m a disappointment OR DCF gets me in trouble
(16:41) My adopters’ public facade OR Where my skepticism started OR Losing respect for authority
(19:10) Suffering through therapy
(21:40) Who are they protecting? OR Abolition is the only option
(25:54) The system doesn’t care about children [CW: school shootings] OR They let alligators eat black babies (true story)
(31:45) My journey with queerness OR Queers in evangelical homes
Links
Learn more about abolition: Alan Dettlaff Episode | Torn Apart by Dorothy Roberts
Confronting the Racist Legacy of the American Child Welfare System By Alan Dettlaff
13th Documentary | The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Josh Lamers
Adoption is trauma. How do we help surviving children heal the wounds they’ve sustained from the child welfare system? Josh Lamers, a transracial adoptee, is public enemy #1 for child welfare agencies in Canada. He joins the show to discuss what adoption and child welfare are like in Canada; and how his organization, Collective of Child Welfare Survivors, advocates for child welfare survivors though addressing harm reduction, counseling, unpacking racial displacement, and community development…amongst many other things.
“The child who's now back in your home is not the same child who was taken out of your home.”
What we discussed
(00:21) Who is Josh Lamers?
(01:57) His transracial adoption experience OR “My adoption was illegal”
(08:51) How child welfare works in Canada OR Adoption system in Canada
(13:47) Insights from studying adoption OR What’s wrong with research about adoption
(23:51) Psychiatric system and adoption
(26:26) Disability and adoption (and why Josh’s adoption was illegal)
(32:22) Myth of “unmanageable kids”
(34:05) How they advocate for child welfare survivors
(45:50) How to support child advocacy work
Links
Outsiders Within
Collective of Child Welfare Survivors: Donate
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Adoptees & Community
Before I found other adoptees online I was lost. I wanted to know where I came from, and I wanted to know others like me. Most adoption communities center adoptive parents and foster parents. We are left out of the picture. This doesn’t make sense. This episode is a collection of my thoughts on this matter.
“One of the most vital ways we sustain ourselves is by building communities of resistance; places where we know we are not alone.” - Bell Hooks
What we discussed
(00:23) Healing power of community
(04:41) Feeling disillusioned by my adoption
(05:59) My adopters in public vs. at home (what people don’t know about adoptive parents)
(07:55) Grassroots communities vs. government agencies
(08:57) If only my mom had community support
(11:39) Looking for spaces with adoptees OR I didn’t know other adoptees
(15:06) Struggling with suicidal ideation
(18:35) Belonging nowhere
(20:38) What binds the adoptee community together
Links
Race, Gender, and Cultural Politics by Bell Hooks
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Confronting the Racist Legacy of the American Child Welfare System
It was when Alan arrived at a home with the cops to remove a child and heard his mother say “Charles, run, they're coming to take you and they're going to sell you to the white people” that he realized how the trauma of slavery cannot be disentangled from the trauma of family separation. It was in this moment that he realized the harm he’s done to many families and decided to take a different path. Today, Alan Dettlaff is an abolitionist and co-founder of the upEND Movement.
In this episode we explore the racist legacy of the child welfare system through discussing Alan’s book Confronting the Racist Legacy of the American Child Welfare System: The Case for Abolition.
What we discussed
(00:23) Who is Alan Dettlaff?
(01:35) Removing children from their families OR He was complicit
(04:16) Why reforms don’t work (and what does)
(08:32) Why the family policing system is racist
(14:31) What’s wrong with mandatory reporting laws?
(20:23) Trump’s Zero Tolerance Policy
(23:58) People wanted to end family separations previously
(25:25) Everyday acts of abolition (that you can do)
(31:55) Social workers and the abolitionist movement
(35:06) “Run, they’re going to sell you to white people” OR Trauma of slavery vs. trauma of family separations
(38:19) Learning more from Alan Dettlaff
Links
Alan Dettlaff’s book: Confronting the Racist Legacy of the American Child Welfare System: The Case for Abolition
Upend Movement: Donate | Podcast
Torn Apart by Dorothy Roberts
Abolitionist Perspectives In Social Work
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Unveiling Roots: The Journey of Gregory D. Luce, Attorney and Advocate for Adoptee Rights
Us adoptees have to pay thousands of dollars and jump through hoops to unseal our records. This robs us of autonomy, dignity, and equality. Gregory D. Luce is an attorney who helps adoptees all across the US go through this hurdle.
In this episode we discuss Greg’s personal adoption journey that made him so passionate about adoptee rights. We also discuss the important work that he does around adoptee records through his organizations the Adoptee Rights Law Center and Adoptees United.
What we discussed
(00:22) Baby scoop era
(03:07) Was never “in the fog”
(05:14) Divorce of his adoptive parents
(06:17) Pay $500 to find no records??
(07:20) Finding his mom coincidentally
(08:23) Establishing the Adoptee Rights Law Center
(10:58) Inheriting his mom’s records and belongings
(14:25) What restrictions are in YOUR state?
(16:54) Adoption records issue for non-US adoptions and illegal adoptions
(20:16) What are baby boxes?
(21:52) Adoption after abolition (what will it look like?) OR You can’t end adoption
(25:58) Why accessing adoption records matters
(27:36) What do Adoptees United do?
(31:30) Adoptee causes need MONEY
(34:28) Future of adoptee rights
(38:07) How to support Greg’s work
Links
Adoptee Rights Law Center
Adoptees United
Donate to Adoptees United
Dorothy Roberts
Connect with Gregory D. Luce: Twitter
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Torn Apart: How the Child Welfare System Destroys Black Families--and How Abolition Can Build a Safer World
More than anyone else, black women get their children kidnapped by the state, by the child “welfare system”. This episode is about the whys and hows of abolishing a system built to strip families away from their children.
Through discussing Torn Apart by Dr. Dorothy Roberts, we examine the history and laws that have led to the birth of armed and violent social workers. We also explore the many opportunities around how transformative justice can save lives.
“Hope is a discipline” - Mariame Kaba
What we discussed
(00:23) Black women’s childbearing is devalued
(04:29) What’s family policing?
(07:21) Weaponising child removal
(14:25) Alternative to the child welfare system?
(19:03) A law that strips away black mothers’ rights, FAST
(33:53) From adoption to murder-suicide
(35:45) Armed social workers? (tragic family policing stories)
(47:48) Is abolition helpful or harmful to children?
(56:33) How to reimagine the system
Links
Torn Apart by Dr. Dorothy Roberts
Shattered Bonds
We were once a family by Roxanna Asgarian
JMACforFamilies
upEND Movement
Movement for Family Power
Connect with Dr. Dorothy Roberts: Twitter
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Reuniting with his birth family showed John McCormick, a transracial adoptee, a new world. He physically felt a relaxation he had never felt before, he connected with music and art like never before, and he started to own who he is - confidently - even when others denied his identity.
This is the story of how John’s reunion with his bio family was a healing journey that led him to reclaim an identity he was stripped of.
What we discussed
(00:26) Finding his family because of a coincidence OR Having his original birth certificate
(06:08) I’m not Irish, I’m Colombian OR Loneliness of having a lost identity OR Who am I, even?
(10:05) Strange feelings after meeting his family OR Deciding to move to Colombia
(13:54) Reconnecting with music and art
(19:06) Getting confident about his identity OR Confidently reclaiming his identity (despite the haters)
(24:48) Working with his therapist
(28:48) How his adoptive family feels about him reconnecting with his bio family
(32:17) Preparing to meet your bio family
Links
Colombian Influence Podcast
Wisdom and Nonsense Podcast
Grow Heal Blossom
Connect with John McCormick: Website
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Emily's Journey: Identity, Language Learning, and Adoption Realities
After 9 months of living with monks, Emily Harris was adopted from China. She was left behind by her bio family due to the One Child Policy. To process her loss of identity, she has started to learn Chinese with a community of adoptees.
In this episode, she talks about how language learning helps, why she wishes she was white, and the hardships of being a Chinese adoptee in the US.
What we discussed
(00:24) Getting adopted from China
(07:18) Pandemic racism
(09:29) Processing identity loss through language learning
(11:24) Not wanting to share the language with non-adoptees
(15:10) Belonging nowhere
(20:58) One child policy
(23:43) Distance created by religion
(27:02) Reckoning with being chinese OR “I want to be white”
(31:40) The note her birth family left her
(35:22) For adoptees learning their bio language…
(38:23) Connect with Emily
Links
Language Travel Adoptee on YouTube
Language Wellness and Identity Podcast
Connect with Emily Harris: Instagram | Twitter
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Adoptees & Mental health
Why adoptees are more likely to commit suicide
Trigger Warning: Suicide, Suicidal ideation, Involuntary hospitalization
Adoptees are 4x more likely to commit suicide, in this episode we unpack why that is. Being an adoptee is a lifelong sentence, we have to cosplay as someone else’s child, we belong almost nowhere - and on top of all that, we invest emotional labor educating therapists about our mental health.
Throughout the episode, we answer questions you’ve asked us on Twitter about adoptee mental health.
“To be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a rage almost all the time.” - James Baldwin
What we discussed
(00:00) Content Warning
(00:47) Should the state fund adoptee therapy?
(02:21) Cosplaying as someone else’s child
(07:40) Why adoptees struggle with mental health
(11:31) Why holidays suck for us
(13:23) Does sharing our experiences help?
(19:26) The anger inside of us
(24:07) Finding an adoptee-competent therapist OR Finding a therapist that understands adoption OR Finding a therapist you don’t have to teach
(29:10) What works (other than therapy)?
(32:57) Societal gaslighting against adoptees
Links
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | TiktokLearn more about Lia
Adoptee Therapists: https://growbeyondwords.com/adoptee-therapist-directory/
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Adoptees as parents
Parenting as an adoptee
What’s it like when you’re adopted and then become a parent? We discuss the unexpected joys and reliefs of parenting, the mistakes we were almost programmed to make, how parenting can heal us, how to tell your children you’re adopted, and being careful about not placing a burden on our children that they aren’t equipped to carry.
PS: If it isn’t clear yet, we would never put our children up for adoption.
What we discussed
(00:00) How being an adoptee affects the way you parent OR Adoptee parenting patterns
(05:46) Being a helicopter mom
(07:16) “No way I was putting my child up for adoption”
(08:47) Late discovery adoptees
(11:29) Telling your kids you’re adopted
(16:34) Are adoptees better parents?
(20:51) Disadvantages of being an adopted parent OR Biggest regret as an adopted parent
(25:57) Parenting and healing
(31:15) Greatest joy of parenting
(33:55) Advice for adoptive parents
(35:31) Legacy
Links
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Learn more about Lia
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Adoptees & Identity
For all our lives, our identities as adoptees have been stripped away from us. Our names changed, our blackness erased, and our birth certificates stolen. This episode we break down the ugly reality of having a fluid identity.
Adoption is about stripping us of our decision-making autonomy, so this episode is a call for us to reclaim our identity in a way that we decide makes sense.
What we discussed
(00:00) What is identity, to us?
(02:30) How our identity changed when we found out we’re adopted OR Finding out we’re adopted and our identity OR Discovering you’re adopted
(11:09) Am I black? White? Latino? (erasing blackness)
(13:37) Am I an only child? Oldest child? Middle child?
(17:07) Choosing an identity vs. how other people identify us
(22:51) Doing a DNA test as an adoptee
(28:46) “my adoptive mom's dad assaulted me” OR CW: Sexual assault and gaslighting
(35:16) Changing names as adoptees (& internalizing anti-blackness)
(39:23) Not owning a birth certificate
(42:59) “I have no clue who I am”
Links
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | TiktokLearn more about Lia
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Blackness and adoption
Adoption taught us anti-blackness
Being adopted makes us an “other” whether we were raised by white, black, or brown families. In this episode we talk about unlearning the anti-blackness we internalized as children, why black adoptees cost less than white adoptees, the parallels between adoption and slavery, and our experiences growing up as black adoptees.
What we discussed
(00:00) “I couldn’t have been blacker” (raised by a white family)
(03:52) Cost of black child vs. cost of white child
(11:15) No idea how to raise a black child OR Internalizing racism as a black adopted child
(17:59) True cost of hating our blackness
(19:45) Did we know other adoptees as children?
(26:30) Adoption and slavery (similarities)
(32:17) Our experience as black adoptees
Links
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | TiktokLearn more about Lia
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
An open letter to the people who bought me
Yesterday I decided to text my adoptive parents that they failed me as parents, it was the first time I ever confronted them. I talk about how they responded in this episode and open up about being sexually assaulted as a child…then gaslighted. This was never my burden to carry, but they always blamed me. They used religion as a guise to avoid responsibility. Instead of risking the possibility of ruining their image, they chose to definitely ruin my life.
This episode is an open letter to my adoptive parents, the people who bought me.
“Shame dies when we tell our story”
What we discussed
(00:00) What happened yesterday OR What I texted my adoptive parents OR Telling my adoptive parents they failed me
(01:52) No one believed I was sexually assaulted OR Being sexually assaulted was MY fault???!
(06:45) They were EDUCATORS
(08:06) Should child protective services be abolished? OR Abolishing child protective services? OR Why I’m an abolitionist
(09:42) Olivia Atkocaitis’ story
(11:02) How the police failed me before I was born OR The police system is not broken.
(14:22) My parents were cowards OR I’m relieved he died
(17:38) Standing up to my parents for the first time
(20:15) How they responded
(25:36) Why I sent the text
(28:39) Own your story
Links
Olivia Atkocaitis’ Story on NBC
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | TiktokLearn more about Lia
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Most challenging parts of friendship and dating for adoptees
Why friendship and dating are so hard for adoptees
What friends and partners don’t understand about adoptees
As adoptees, we never want to rock the boat in any relationship we’re in be it with friends, family, or partners. The fear of abandonment is always lingering, and never an afterthought. So, what does that do to our minds? How does it affect our ability to bond? What do we need from our friends and partners? Should our partners meet our families? If yes, which family?! We share how we’ve tackled these disorienting questions in our lives as 3 adoptees.
What we discussed
(00:00) Dating as an adoptee OR Do you tell your partner you’re adopted?
(03:59) Partners meeting the family OR Meeting the family: which family would they meet?
(06:12) Educating partners about adoptee life
(10:06) How does adoption affect friendships?
(14:43) Are adoptees people pleasers OR Adoption and people-pleasing OR Standing up for yourself as an adoptee (people pleasing)
(20:14) Protecting our parents’ “image”
(27:48) Most challenging aspects of relationships for adoptees OR Hardest thing about relationships for adoptees
(29:05) Advice for partners of adoptees
Links
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
The fact that there are more rigorous mental health requirements for people who want to do weight loss surgeries than there are for adoptive parents is a shame. Adoptive parents think they’ve done us a huge favor and “saved” our lives, that without them we’d be worse off - that’s the lie the whole industry is built on. Holding up that lie is racism, colonialism, and narcissism. The adoption industry thrives on centering the role of adoptive parents as saviors…so we pick that lie apart and reflect on why infertility is not a good enough reason to qualify for adoption.
What we discussed
(00:00) What is adoption saviorism?
(05:02) Racism and colonialism in adoption
(09:57) Adoptive home = good; biological home = bad OR BIGGEST myth of the adoption industry
(13:05) Who is “entitled” to adopt?
(16:33) Infertility is NOT a reason to adopt
(19:31) Mental health checks for adoptive parents
(21:09) The lie of selflessness OR Power dynamics of saviorism
Links
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
Ungrateful Adoptees
No, I’m not grateful you adopted me.
Why would I be grateful for family separation? Why would I be grateful for being lied to about where I came from? Why would I be grateful for solving their infertility issues? It’s adoptive parents that should be grateful to have us, not the other way around. This episode is all about rejecting the tone-dead narrative of gratefulness in adoption. We poke at all the layers of gratefulness and ungratefulness that we have to deal with behind the scenes as adoptees.
What we discussed
(00:00) We’re not grateful for being adopted: here’s why
(04:18) Adoption is a business OR We are anti-family separation
(06:00) Adoption sites/groups AREN’T our friend OR Adoption twitter is not a safe space
(08:54) Abused by adoptive family OR Abusive adoptive families
(12:40) The “better life” myth in adoption OR “I would have been better off with my biological family”
(14:59) Why child protective services is broken
(17:24) Gratefulness and reunification
(19:19) Not grateful for being lied to as an adoptee
(24:49) Robbing us of our birth right
Links
Peer Support Space (Support Group - Adult Survivors of the Child Welfare System)
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or email him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
It’s a Family Reunion
Family reunification for adoptees: our journeys, challenges and advice
Our family reunification stories (as adoptees)
Scouring through facebook, twitter, and adoption boards to find your biological family is a heavy journey. There are so many risks: what if they reject us again? What if they abandon us again? What if our adoptive parents feel offended? Not to mention, we’re going to have to build relationships with our biological family from the ground up.
Reunion is different for every adoptee. Through sharing our own reunification stories, we give you tips on how to reunite with your biological family, what expectations to manage, whether your biological family should meet your adoptive family, and how reunification interrupts lives other than your own.
What we discussed
(00:00) Family reunification is different for every adoptee
(02:42) Our family reunion experiences and expectations
(17:06) Runification = Interrupting lives
(21:54) Challenges of family reunification OR Hardest parts of family reunification
(29:06) Next steps in our reunion journeys
(32:44) Tips for starting your family reunion journey
Links
Peer Support Space (Support Group - Adult Survivors of the Child Welfare System)
Follow us on social media: Twitter | Instagram | Tiktok
Credits
Special thanks to Samuel Oyedele for editing our podcast, support his work on Instagram or e-mail him at Drumaboyiglobal@gmail.com
This is a teaser episode, where we introduce ourselves, talk about how the podcast came to be and touch one a few topics briefly.
This is a teaser clip just to give you an idea of what the podcast vibe and feel is like.