All About Doctors Radio: Recent Episodes
Will Mangar
All About Doctors Radio broadcasts depth-of-field conversations with inspirational role-models in medicine. I explore what makes the best of them 'tick', and what it is that specifically makes these guests the role-model and effective professional they are. Guests talk about the activities and passions in their lives which keep them floating above water and keeping 'evergreen' in a profession that associates itself with burnout and mental exhaustion. They give away the positive habits and strategies that keep them coming back for more every day. Can you become better by unpicking the excellence and know-how of your colleagues, therefore improving what you do even further? Join me, Will Mangar, a family primary care GP doctor in Kent, South East England, as i get a few more pointers on how these folk consistently get it right and use their super-powers to keep treading water! Its never been so tough out there to survive in the profession you once lived for....Check us out on allaboutdoctorsradio.com
Dr Murray Ellender is a General Practitioner in South London, co-founder and chief executive officer (CEO) of eConsult Health. Murray qualified from King’s College London Medical School back in 1999 and trained in Emergency Medicine before starting a career in General Practice. He joined the progressive team at the Hurley Clinic in 2006 and led on urgent care for the group for a number of years. He now practices part time across the Hurley Group, in both general practice and urgent care settings.
Nowadays, he spends most of his week running eConsult Health Limited - a health tech company which spun out of the Hurley. The focus of eConsult is to bring NHS care into the digital age, offering patients the ability to consult with their own NHS GP online and be triaged digitally in Urgent & Emergency Care settings.
Murray and I met many years ago whilst navigating our way through the Maidstone Vocational Training Scheme in the mid- 2000s, which seems a very very long time indeed....
For further information on the episode, please visit allaboutdoctorsradio.com
Dr Dave Hindmarsh is a GP in the North East England and Army Veteran. After having 11 years of service, he realised that he needed to change his life to be less career focused and to ensure that work-life balance is addressed. This was bought into no small part by the untimely death of his new born son, James. This made him turn to literature to try and help on this journey, The Chimp Paradox and Atomic habits really helping to focus his efforts.
He is now balancing his own portfolio career, being a new partner in Eaglescliffe Medical Practice, Hull-York Medical School and teaching locally. The YouTube channel, GP Templates, is his own passion project that was born out of trying to create a second income. It has started to focus on some really key points from his life with the aim that they can help others in similar predicaments.
This is a new step in Dave’s career as he tries to pull all that he has been through to bring meaning to what he has been through and to carefully share with patients and help them on their own individual journey.
If you wish to contact Dave, then feel free to drop a line to: gptemplates@gmail.com
He can also be found on
Twitter (@GP_Templates) https://twitter.com/GP_Templates
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1939735739516109
YouTube: GP Templates - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC10JRUBDHZDKHuQ3U4mHO8g
Other links that may be useful from the Podcast….
Elephant bike: https://www.cycleofgood.com/elephant-bike/
Books:
Atomic Habits. James Clear
(YouTube review -
The Chimp Paradox. Prof Steve Peters
Badge design: I did this through MBC Badges (https://www.badges.org.uk/)
Charities: Sick Childrens Trust: https://www.sickchildrenstrust.org/
When a child suddenly becomes ill, there’s no time to plan. We're here to give families one less thing to worry about by giving them a place to stay, free of charge just minutes from their child’s bedside.
The Warrior Programme: https://www.warriorprogramme.org.uk/
This is a charity that helps service personnel, veterans and families of with a way to emotionally control enables individuals to manage their emotions and to develop the resilience, focus and motivation to succeed in today’s world. The programme has been developed over the last ten years to meet the demands and challenges experienced by past and present members of the armed forces and their families.
Hagen Jahnich is a consultant orthopaedic surgeon specialising in upper limb at Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust. A former officer in the East German Army, Hagen recounts the emotions surrounding the fall of the Berlin Wall, as well as performing his physical training with tank chains whilst preparing himself for international competition as an open water rower. Since then he has competed on national and international levels and won multiple national titles and remains the last ever East German National Champion in the lightweight double sculls and he has won the British National Championships, also having won six World Masters Regattas.
On the episode today I have the pleasure of presenting Miss Tena Walters, Consultant Breast Surgeon. Tena has been a consultant surgeon since 1996 and now divides her time between surgical management of breast disease including breast cancer, as well as her interests in Art. Tena qualified from Barts Medical school in 1983 and completed her training in the South East of England. She was appointed Lecturer in Anatomy, and subsequently lecturer in Surgery on the Professorial Surgical Unit at Barts where she completed an MS thesis studying smooth muscle cell proliferation. In 1996 she was appointed as a Consultant in Breast Surgery at Queen Mary's Hospital and became Lead Clinician of the Breast Unit in 1998 and Lead Clinician in Oncology in 2002.
I met Tena as one of my supervising consultants whilst completing my junior doctor training in South East London. Her human and personable touch to not only patients but to us junior 'grunts' was unprecedented but welcomed. She has an infallible ability to touch the lives of her patients and those she comes into contact with, and this is evident from the podcast conversation.
Tena goes into real detail on her early years as a surgeon, juggling small children and the monolithic training to pass the fellowship college exams as well as complete postgraduate research. Back in 1996, only 1 in 1000 surgeons were not only female, but had children at home. She shares her thoughts on the fabled '1 in 2 rota' at the Homerton Hospital, and we talk about PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder)in medicine. As the discussion evolves, Tena is open, transparent and very candid. But her sense of humour is all-conquering. We touch on psychopathic personality traits in surgery...good or bad - you decide?
Please enjoy this fantastic conversation with Miss Tena Walters
This episode concludes Season Two of All About Doctors Radio; it has signified a real insight into the lives and times of some really fantastic colleagues out there. By just having the opportunity to get under the skin of these amazing professionals, I really get to understand what makes them tick, and the factors and elements that make them who there are. I am rapidly learning that the most effective of us have multiple layers to us, and it's not all about work, but the ability to reach down into our toolkit and pick out a tool just for the right occasion.
On the episode the young and insightful Dr Albert Koomson talks about how sport has been important to him in sailing his ship through the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr Pauline Morris, founder of Doctors Caring For Doctors talks about dealing with our wayward perceptions of apparent 'failure' as well as accepting others into our lives.
Dr Neil Potter, Kent Local Medical Committee representative talks about his hopes for the future of the NHS. Founder of medic wellbeing organisation Medizom, Ross McKean, gives thoughts as to how being allowed to care for patients personally in his early years gave him important skills now as a GP, as well as the possible dangers of social media. Dr Richard Laurent, recently retired GP and great friend, discusses the sinister translocation of acute into chronic stress un the life of a GP.
Finally, Dr David Unwin, the British GP who has helped pioneer reversal of type 2 diabetes with low carbohydrate eating, talks about his thoughts on retirement, and the biggest u turn in medical history at 55 years old! We conclude the episode with some stirring and sobering contemplations from David regarding not only a world he knew with out diabetes and obesity, but also an important message for our profession and colleagues out there.
I hope you enjoy this carousel of soundbites from these wonderful individuals, and creates a nice springboard and platform for Season Three.
During the second part of my conversation with Dr Albert Koomson, we start by taking a step back into his very early life, growing up in Ghana. When Albert's father accepted a post as a Consultant Anaesthetist in the UK, the family actually relocated to North London nearby to the Tottenham Hotspur football stadium. Albert muses on how living in a challenging neighbourhood gifted him important skills in life but also on how to be comfortable with being uncomfortable, accepting the adversity, diversity and social skew that surrounded him in the local areas. Albert is generous with his inner thoughts, and provides me with insight into why his father is a role model he is in his life, and always will be. On arriving in the the UK, he made a tremendous success of his career and demonstrated important qualities and attributes to a young and impressionable Albert such as selflessness, kindness, and a insatiable thirst and passion for life which have automatically seared themselves permanently onto Alberts personality also. In Alberts words, he had a ‘sublime courage’, and ‘broke down the doors and glass ceilings’ that were present for many overseas doctors working in the British NHS, especially at a time when they may have experienced episodes of prejudice and unnecessary obstacles. This is an important discussion for us both and draws the parallels with those important to me in my own life.
But did you know that Albert actually completed a degree in microbiology at Leicester before moving onto medicine and in hindsight, was not necessarily such a bad idea? He gives important insights into why being mature and emotionally intelligent is an essential prerequisite for building a successful platform during the early years of medical school and a springboard to accepting the seriousness of studying medicine. During the second half of the conversation we swap thoughts about some of the fears of qualification and being a doctor by default as termed by the media so to speak. In particular, he refers to some of the ‘front line’ military talk rhetoric expressed within the National media which understandably frightened and concerned his cohort. Albert talks emotionally about dealing with the overwhelming tsunami of COVID-19 on the wards. The aggressively steep learning curve and rules of engagement for discussion with worried families as well as reflections on the sudden worsening changes in condition in a seemingly-well COVID-19 patient. We see insights as to how his faith and belief in God, the importance of good family support , is so important to him and has been transformational in dealing with the pain and fear in the first few months of being a doctor.
What is clearly evident from our conversation, is Albert’s wholehearted gratitude to those in his life that have allowed him to be in the position he is and also supported him with his role being on the front line in these last few months. Finally, we finish off by talking about dreams and aspirations for a career in elite organised team sports…..and just why a dream job of being the Manchester United Head medic may not be all it is cracked up to be….
Please enjoy the remainder of this joyful conversation with the charming and funny, Dr Albert Koomson.
Dr Albert Koomson is a 26 year old foundation doctor in Harlow, Essex, South East England. He is one the many newly qualified British doctors to be unfortunately appointed by the medical press in the ‘Class Of Corona’. Personally, I am not entirely sure whether the label was something of legend or more likely imposed by the medical press. Back in spring of 2020, just as the COVID-19 pandemic had menacingly swept across Western Europe, landing firmly on British shores, something important and monumental was happening at the University of East Anglia Medical School. By gratification and granting of pre-registration rights from the General Medical Council, was in essence, the de-facto appointment as doctors on the spot. This was an unprecedented and earth-shattering decision made in conjunction with many other medical schools across the UK.
I first got to know Albert when I read his article and qualitative research in the British Medical Journal Doctor supplement with interest. He wrote candidly and openly about the fear and emotion behind being a doctor by default and taking a front row seat in the ‘Class Of Corona’.
Albert ignites with emotion during the first part of the episode as we venture into the topic of sport, and just how the impact of team sports, rugby and football specifically, has positively affected his life. Nevertheless, we also see glimpses of frustration and fearfulness from moments of a life without organised sport from successive national lockdowns. Albert talks openly about how that scares him. Albert touches on some important themes of just how sport engenders not only identity and purpose in a young man, but also the life-skills and confidence that translate to a fantastic future likely in sports medicine. Albert demonstrates his skill as motivator and inspirational figure to those around him as demonstrated with the success stories of the Norwich University Medical Student football team. Albert talks about enforcing drinking bands, how the fittest teams, not necessarily the most skilful teams, often come out on top. He proposes how many of the skills from the field of play are translatable to the workplace and so impacting those around him.
I had a really fantastic couple of hours speaking with Albert and it was an unmitigated pleasure. We are both London boys and I felt really at home with him talking about mutual overlaps of North London. Albert is a real gentle, lovely and insightful young man and has a beautiful attitude to life.
Episode 23 concludes the conversation with the powerful and fearless Dr David Unwin, as this family GP uncovers the self-doubt and self-criticism that characterised those early days in 2012 whilst consistently reversing type 2 diabetes with low carbohydrate eating, and why the recipes suggested by him and his consultant psychologist wife Jen required a large healthy slice of tenacity to combat the naysayers. It certainly wasn't all plain-sailing in those early days, and David talks about needing to persuade and convince his partners at his practice, who were at the time making things fairly uncomfortable, but perhaps not as much as the sheer aggression and barbarity he received from so-called colleagues in the hinterland of medicine.
We touch on trolling, hate mail and why just like why perhaps love conquers all….so does working for free conquers all, and why this shift in his thinking provided the dynamite to detonate a cascade of impactful events that led to publication of groundbreaking evidence of type 2 diabetes reversal. Although working for free, David talks how paradoxically this gave him wealth without the status of any monetary value, and the fun this brought him, which has helped him overcome the self doubt and a growing, insidious, pervasive feeling that he may have actually been wrong until the age of 55. The episode draws significant emotion from this wonderful man, and David talks about a world he once knew without obesity and type 2 diabetes, and why it will always be the inequalities of healthcare that keep him awake at night.
Lastly, for me, personally, my final resonating message in my mind once the microphone was turned off was David's call to action and a finger firmly pointed at my generation, and those coming after me, and in fact all or our colleagues in the world. Now is our time to stand up and be counted, have you the determination to be a hero or heroine and save a life just like David?
Or you can wuss out and stay silent.
As in the Pink Floyd song , did you exchange a walk on part in a war for a lead role in a cage…..?
I had the honour and privilege to be talking at length with a family doctor-cum-worldwide phenomenon and innovator - Dr David Unwin. Having worked as a GP for 35 years as a one-practice-man at Norwood NHS Surgery in Southport, just north of Liverpool, David was just about ready to hang up his stethoscope having called time on a steady and well-crafted career as a family doctor, with an extremely enviable reputation. On a long run in the hills one day with his clinical psychotherapist wife Jen, David was asked the one burning question which would go on to define his career, and lead him to become one of the world's leading experts in the (they say it can't be done..) reversal of Type 2 Diabetes. We recount exactly where, on that run, that small fragment of a synaptic spark, a mind seed perhaps, would go on to sprout into a lifelong obsession, calling and mission. David muses on the solutions that often emerge when we ask ourselves the toughest questions during acts of intensive physical activity. Jen simply asked him; What would you do with your life if money was no object? The idea was incepted, the birthing of a radical, innovative, but highly effective nutritional shift - and the Norwood Plan was spawned. To date, his practice has seen a nearly 50% remission rate of type 2 diabetes from utilization of a low carbohydrate diet, championed by David and Jen, through evidence-based medicine but also through the power of motivational coaching of patients.
Further recognition of his impact and services to medicine were acknowledged with achievement of the RCGP (Royal College of General Practitioners) ‘National Champion in Obesity and Diabetes’ in 2015, also leading to the winning of the UK NHS ‘Innovator of the Year’ award in 2016. His work has been featured by the major networks including BBC and Channel Four in several documentaries, as well notably within the The Times and Daily Mail newspapers, and the British Medical Journal. With a twitter-handle @lowcarbGP he has over 55k followers.
I learn a little more on the blue tongue skink and what itmay be doing in his living room, as well as how to escape psychologically from the clutches of money, and the simple but ever-giving prize of doing something for nothing. During the later part of this first half of the interview, we go subterranean, and discuss the dark ethics of medicine, the tsunamis of ill health, the inequalities of global healthcare, and simply the.... shall we say….iatrogenic...tragedy that is type 2 diabetes.
This was an honour, a privilege, and pleasure to be sharing a couple of hours with this inspirational and courageous individual. The episode was a milestone for both myself and the podcast, and an emotional one at that, but more of that later on in the second part if you can wait.
During part two of the conversation with Richard Laurent, we discuss the sinister medicalisation of medicine including the medicalisation of normal human distress, sadness and suffering. We explore Richard’s perhaps counter-narratives on national screening for which Richard gives his own views and opinion - which I am sure will spark healthy debate. I really enjoyed and felt privileged to be part of this project with this well-loved and respected general practitioner, educator and inspirational figure. Please become enthralled with this conclusion to a remarkable conversation with Dr Richard Laurent.
For the first installment of this double-platter edition, I have the sincerest pleasure to be presenting the powerful Dr Richard Laurent, now retired Maidstone GP and former Programme Director of the Maidstone Vocational-Training Scheme- the organization that births new GPs every year.
Richard has had a big impact on me in my early days when i trained on the VTS scheme. I found his example of keeping fit and rising to personal physical challenge ( mountain trekking and cycling anywhere and everywhere in Kent) inspiring enough for me to change my life accordingly, having let the wheels fall off a bit at medical school. As they say, imitation is the highest form of flattery. During the interview we talk about the time my world was shattered when i witnessed the cold assassination of a family-sized Diary Milk bar, and Richard elaborates a bit about the time his consulting room was invaded by chocolate and Dorito crisps on the 'last day of term’
However, we do get serious from the start, and Richard reflects on how his medical school days and early career changed course, becoming defined by family illness and tragedy that altered his outlook significantly, perhaps even for the remainder of his career. We lighten the mood as we discuss paradoxical yuppy-student life in luxury flats in the Barbican of London, and why his wife Liz is his greatest asset, which provides a more wide angled view of why wife's are so important in medicine. Poignantly, Richard muses on why retired doctors are rarely quoted as stating “i wish i earnt more money in my career”, but are, in fact, more likely to say “I wish I spent more time with my kids”.....
We get embroiled into some deep and dark intra-partnership ethical murky water with the model of Dr Efficient versus Dr Popular, and the more widespread issues this throws up. Richard delivers a powerful piece of wisdom that he has fostered in his career of “Don't just do something, stand there”. What resonated with me however was the paradox of the Topper…..and why we should put it firmly back into the consulting desk drawer at all opportunities.
This episode was an important one for me, perhaps even a perennial wish for the last 20 years. What would be important for listeners to realize is that Richard spent several months deliberating whether he had anything interesting to say and worried about being boring. My feeling is quite the opposite, and Richard takes off like a rocket. For me, it certainly lived up to expectations, i hope it does for you, and sets you up nicely for part two next week.
Episode 19 brings a highly anticipated second part of the fascinating conversation with Dr Ross McKean. If you did catch up on the episode last week I think you will be in for an enlightening conclusion to the chat, as Ross reveals his motivations and inspirations for innovating the concept of the medical Zombie that led him to pioneer the organisation Medizom.
Ross has just started out as a GP registrar, but dont let that fool you - he has a wealth of experience in the medical education field. Ross is very candid about how the traditional education model may have let him down, as he proposes that health care assistant employment seemingly prepared him for life with patients more than medical school perhaps did? On the episode we talk more about how we become devoid of compassion, especially when we are out of mental ‘bandwidth’, how social media and binge-watching Neftlix may not be the panacea it is. Again Ross postulates the theory that this continued subacute general anaesthesia by media prevents us being the best versions of ourselves.
Ross proposes theories on the over used term work-life balance, and how perhaps chasing the so called 'perfect ratio' may do us a disservice. Do we pressure ourselves to try and enjoy our leisure time just that too much to be beneficial? Are we missing the point? I guess we spend most of our walking hours…..at work? Ultimately, I came to the end of the conversation and somewhat ‘sore the light’ - you have to love what you do, and then you only then can you do great meaningful work.
Please enjoy this conclusion to this conversation as well as the life and times of Ross McKean.
On the episodes today I have the luck to be speaking with a real visionary - Dr Ross Mckean, GP Registrar in Cambridge, England and founder of the medic-wellbeing organization, Medizom. Ross has worked with healthcare professionals for some time now, and to quote his website, to help 'escape the medic zombie apocalypse and be more human'.
Medizom provides a conceptual view of potential troubles and hazards up ahead on the tortuous road of medicine. Ross has spent several years piecing together the traits and characteristics of professional 'burnout' in medicine, and provides a navigation model to those early warning, 'red flag' hallmarks. By architecting a spectrum and schematic view of how troubled and devastated we can be by the pain, suffering and fragmentation that medicine can deliver to our front door he has laid out a manifesto of hope during the episode. Ross has steadily built a community of like-minded medics who have shared their own paths up the ‘medical mountain’, as Ross puts it. Ross has a history in medical education and the use of IT in medicine.
During part 1, Ross kindly shares some of the incidents, scenarios and awakenings he experienced which created this progressive shift in his thinking. For me, from being initially confused and skeptical to the principle of the so-called 'medical zombie', by the time I had finished my interview with Ross, my mindset on the theory of medizom had perhaps shifted somewhat.
Please enjoy this thought-shifting and progressive interview with Dr Ross McKean
In part 2 of the interview with Dr Neil Potter we talk in detail about the monster that is uncertainty in medicine, and personal strategies on switching off, at the same time, Neil uncovering some worrying clues to some of his pyromaniac tendencies which masquerade as mindfulness. I know you all know I am joking!
Neil has spent years at the helm of his medical practice in Marden, Kent. The ethos of collaborative approach and fierce teamwork makes them the wonder practice they are, recognised by our friendly CQC regulators as plain and simply... Outstanding.
We touch on Neil's rewarding work with the local medical committee once again in this second part as well as a collaborative long division, back-of-a-cigarette packet calculation on historical NHS funding which pretty much justifies why general practitioners still offer remarkable value for money. But most importantly, special thanks, yet again, to Neil's son Will Potter of the up and coming band Blondes for giving us permission to use his new song Supernatural Highlights which adds some well-needed youth to this episode.
Neil Potter is a Kentish Weald GP, Local Medical Committee representative, local hero, and all round good guy. I have been lucky enough to have known Neil for years, and without descending into a quagmire of cliches, he is widely accepted as the family doctor you would want to go to if there was something remotely wrong with you. With regards the first part of the interview, Neil offers meandering contemplations on why eclectic travel broadens not only the mind, but also the soul, not to mention delivering a sense of humility but also gratitude for our ‘jewel in the crown’ ( to quote Neil) National Health Service we are blessed with
Neil talks openly about his gratitude to the British taxpayer for providing him with the opportunity to become a doctor as well as how to approach priceless debts to those who invested to allow him to be who he is, as well as becoming a quiz master and pool-hall hustler.
We get some insights into the inner mechanisms of this approachable and fondly-thought of general practitioner, which tees us up perfectly for round two of the interview next time. Special thanks for permission to use the wonderful track Coming of Age by Neil's son's group Blondes, we are so very grateful.
Please enjoy this thought provoking conversation with Dr Neil Potter
This episode is part 2 of the interview with the Dr Pauline Morris, consultant anaesthetist in Qatar, and founder of the organisation Doctors Caring for Doctors, a coaching and guidance service for medics who have perhaps become unstuck, and need a guiding light to show them the path ahead. In a current climate whereby everyone seems to be interested in digging their escape tunnel from medicine, Pauline is focused on the challenge of preventable burnout and helping to plug the metaphorical sinkhole, preventing the best in the profession swirl down the u-bend and escape the profession forever never to be seen again. This episode contains valuable information on how NOT to leave medicine.
During this second part we discuss the gift of kindness to each other, tempering expectations of ourselves, and good simply being good enough. We touch on humanistics in healthcare, if thats even a word, and Pauline leads us through growth versus fixed mindsets, thoughts on how to accept help from others and the Attack of the Clones-style cookie-cutter doctors.
Please enjoy this very rewarding conclusion to my discussion with Dr Pauline Morris.
Pauline Morris is a consultant anaesthetist working in women and children's medicine in Qatar, having moved from practice in the United Kingdom three years ago. Pauline qualified from the University of West Indies, Barbados in 1999 and became a consultant anaesthetist in 2010. Working in London hospitals until 2018, she chose a career redirection and relocated to Qatar, taking up an appointment as Assistant Professor of Clinical Anaesthesiology at Weill Cornell University. Her background has been focused consistently on teaching and training as well as mentorship roles of younger parents. Back in the United Kingdom she specialised in clinical governance for anaesthesia and theatres, investigating serious untoward incidents as well as root cause analysis investigation.
Having studied Life coaching and mindfulness, she founded Doctors Caring For Doctors, an organisation focused on life coaching for medics in difficulty, needing career direction, wanting to get something off their chest, or all of the above. We kick off with swapping notes on life as a medic in a pandemic in Qatar versus that in the UK. At about the 20minute time-mark we talk about getting into trouble, how the attitude of second being first loser can ultimately break us, and the heartwarming story of Pauline's teenage pregnancy and how this moulded her calling in medicine. She discusses her passions and altruistic attitudes to her peers, of which we talk more on this in part 2 with further emphasis on her organisation. At 50 minutes into the podcast to the close we discuss how to fail with grace and the gifts of effective mentorship. I personally consider this episode one of favourites, finding her life advice inspirational and uplifting, and she is a real sage. Please enjoy this wide ranging conversation with Dr Pauline Morris.
To kick off Season 2 of the All About Doctors podcast, as well as a new year of hope and quiet optimism, this episode knits together all the highlights of 2020. This was certainly a difficult task as there was simply so much worthy content. My feeling was the best approach was to offer a banquet spread of giggle-factor plus solid take-home advise. A healthy mix of youthful energy plus mastery of experience, I hope the episode offers listeners a short digest of my favourites of the year rather than a bargain basement compendium!
I hope you all enjoy, and thank-you for your continued support and presence on the other end of the episodes!
The second part of the interview with Dr David McGavin, GP, pain specialist, anthroposophical practitioner and visionary, delivers in no uncertain terms lighting the touch paper once again. If you found the first episode of interest, then you are in for a white knuckle ride with this second instalment, as David serves up the main course to part one's starter with so many more complexities of being a jobbing medical man. David goes deep in this second part, and at times I felt like I was losing the trail, almost observing the interview from above, watching David weave the chain of themes and thoughts together, knitted seamlessly and smoothly.
I felt extremely lucky and privileged to be in the position of interviewing him to capture these through provoking subjects. I would encourage listeners to stick with the episode to the end, and the last few moments are legendary, and David's wisdom that transgresses the airways shouldn't be lost in time.
David floats between so many different subjects, again welded together effortlessly, providing a smooth train of conscious musings, almost like a medical bard. We talk about how to apologise well, and do it sincerely, as well as dealing with one's own negative narrative to conduct one's vocation in an open and selfless way. We talk about lost friends and colleagues, those who have been lifelong mentors and inspiration figures to him as well as the tragedies in medicine that have affected him deeply, and he is so honest and transparent about how his mental health was affected accordingly, as it would for all of us. David caps all of this off on how to talk to strangers, and most importantly the practice of humility which came late but nevertheless a welcomed-surprise, which he credits to simple self-taught mind exercises.
Ultimately, it was a privilege to witnessing and be in some way part of a mans lifetime work , and seemingly at the setting sun of his career, to have the opportunity to be involved in some small way with his reflections was a special thing for me.
David McGavin is a practicing GP, anthroposophical practitioner, pain specialist, visionary, provocateur, and a fiercely partisan patient advocate, currently dividing his time between retirement, the Kairos rehabilitation center in Greenwich, and locuming in his home town of Maidstone, Kent.
Born in 1946 and growing up in Kent, he completed his degree medicine at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel. He had an eclectic foundation period into far flung quarters of the globe including KwaZulu in South Africa as well as a year in West Berlin at the Children's State Hospital providing him with a unique but rich diversity of cultural experience which has served him well in his career. These experiences provided him with perspectives that become apparent during the interview, demonstrating him as one of the true free thinkers of the profession.
The Kairos Rehabilitation Trust in Greenwich, London, which he help to set up in 2011, can be described as the sister organization to the Blackthorn Trust, which he originally founded in 1983 in Maidstone. It is an empowering community scheme embodying various avenues of treatment for those with chronic pain, long-term debilitating conditions as well as serious mental health problems. There is particular emphasis for the needs of those who are socially excluded by reason of ill health, disability, unemployment or other reasons. In 2007 he registered with the Anthroposophical Physician Association, later becoming a GP with special interest in chronic pain in primary care in 2009 with formal accreditation.
David has previously been awarded the Doctor of the Year in Mental Health in 1993, then the Evian Award for Science and Medicine in 1991.
The interview has been split into two parts, this is part one, and part two will be published over the coming week or so. David is a wonderfully captivating orator, and he riffs and jams through the three hour interview effortlessly, barely coming up for air, barely taking pause.
David provides a light touch approach to the principles of anthroposophical medicine, and talks about the studies of Euthymy, which the oxford dictionary describes as is an expressive movement art originated by Rudolf Steiner.
David talks in this first episode about so many themes, from opportunities the medical profession has to be in charge of its own destiny, to an increasingly faceless and dehumanized approach to mental health care in the UK. We talk about medical models of chaos, and how this creates a fertile bed of hope for mental health therapies in patients. He goes into great detail on the ability to control one's inner chatter, chimp or frustrations, and the power of simple practical mental exercises that changed the rules for David.
My guest on the podcast today is a fantastic young man by the name of Mr Ed Hatfield, final year medical student at Cardiff University. Ed is semi fluent in Russia, travelling to deepest darkest Russia at the age of 18 for three months during his gap year to teach English. Ed happily absorbs a 16 minute 5k park-run and he is tucking into his cereal just about the time that the rest of us are crossing the finish line. Ed would rather have had teeth pulled then discuss his success as a runner.
I met Ed early in 2020 at the COVID-19 'hot' hub at the local airfield, having volunteered to drive the rapid response vehicle. We shared many hours of banter, mainly focused on his appetite for running, which we discuss in detail during the episode, but also the possession of an ungainly prehistoric monstrosity of a mobile phone, a bit like Michael Douglas circa Wall Street. My clumsy questions surrounding his Nokia 'brick' certainly came thick and fast, and despite the inhuman interrogation on my part, there was still no clue as to his rhyme and reason for the outdated technology. He tells all about the relic during the podcast.
During the episode we talk more about the power of intense aerobic exercise in the hills of Pembrokeshire and its medication properties, and Ed paints fantastically vivid pictures with his descriptions. Ed recounts his time with the Cardiff University Rural Education Programme allowing him to integrate a whole year into primary care.
We discuss reading, and Ed draws upon works of Russian author Mikhail Bulgakov as he draws on him as an inspirational figure. This young man has a steady nature, and Ed describes himself as being able to maintain even keel, sometimes despite chaos surrounding him, understanding implicitly the requirements and necessities of self awareness, self motivation, self regulation. We talk about automation of lifestyle processes, and the theme of how to top load his day and craft out periods of recovery and relaxation time. During the interview, I was cognisant of his emotional maturity and intelligence, with characteristics displayed of those way beyond his years.
Ed is fluent, funny, articulate and engaging. The two hour interview went by in a snip, and I felt relaxed and spontaneous with this gentleman, particularly as the interview with held over a very nice glass of Rioja....
This is the episode you have all been waiting for, the tsunami of interest since the preview was posted has been utterly astronomical, the response has been truly 'off the scale'. If you haven't listened to the previous episode and preview, I would encourage you to maybe go back and acquaint yourself, and learn about the great and powerful Dr Mike Heber.
In the years I have known Mike, he has been transformative on the lives of many patients, but notably also his colleagues, and those who cross his path have consistently felt influenced by his positive outlook. He has certainly made a big impact on me. Mike is optimistic, smiling and brimming with energy, I sometimes wonder if he runs on Duracell batteries!
The interview delivers and doesn't fail to provide the listeners with a blueprint of who the man is. Now finally retired from partnership and clinical duties, Mike is on an upward trajectory working with struggling primary care centres with his Royal College of General Practitioners hat on. We talk about everything, from his mortal hatred of a fleet street rag the rhymes with snail to creating critical friendships with struggling practices. Mike has us both in hysterics as he turns a police seize into an impromptu house call.
Did you know that Mike was voted Community Doctor of The Year by a mystery patient who had luck and life stacked against her? Mike makes me look like a neanderthal with his literary musings and quotes, talking about Karl Rogers, inspiring teachers and Freedom To Learn.
Mike talks about impactful mentors and his inspirational cardiologist teacher that gave way to the statistic that Seattle and Brighton are in his opinion the best places in the world to have a cardiac arrest. Mike talks about why he would have asked for more advice more often at a younger age and how to finish morning surgery at 3.30pm after seeing 54 patients in style.
As doctors, we may not admit it, but we still we would hope that nobody has a bad words to say on us, but meet the man who has put this into reality.
Dr Caroline Jessel is a retired general practitioner who worked within mid-Kent for well over thirty years and has had a highly celebrated career. She has worn many hats, not only as mother to five children but also a loved and admired GP. She was of the early innovators and pioneers of clinical governance in Kent, Sussex and Surrey before progressing to the Sustainability and Transformation project for the National Health Service. Towards the end of her career she started the children and families mental health charity Dandelion Time where the podcast was recorded. Caroline talks about so many interesting subjects, including how to deal with getting it wrong in medicine, but also how to perhaps make it right again after. She talks about what happens when business relationships break, and also about how she would use nature to help deal with the stress and overwhelm of modern practice. It is difficult to really effectively convey the wonderful impact and effect her charity has had on vulnerable children and families that have experienced trauma. In the previous preview episode we go into detail regarding the charity including interviews with key individuals there. Do listen if you haven't.
The interview was performed at the Dandelion Time farm site in Maidstone, and is warming and cheering. I feel this is a wonderful heart-felt story for us all in a time we could really use the positive optimism she delivers.
My guest today on the podcast is Dr Paul Hobday. This episode is actually part two of a double bill special episode. If you have listened to the first preview episode then you will need no further introduction, i dare say you have been waiting with baited breath.
Paul has had a varied and celebrated medical career including a thirty year block as a GP spanning just one practice in Kent, South east England.
He has had a successful career in both medical and parliamentary politics. He has also been instrumental in almost single-handedly incepting one of the first General Practice co-operative group in England, directly impacting on enhancing quality of lives of General Practitioners as well as raising the game when it came to out of hours care for patients and safety.
He has recently written a dystopian tale of commercialisation of public sector services called The Deceit Syndrome, published in 2019. All proceeds from the book have gone to continuing the fight to save the NHS. We talk about all of it, in great detail.
The interview was performed in Pauls wonderful renovated farm cottage in a tranquil enclave nestled in the Weald of Kent, a sanctuary and oasis of peace. We sat in his study surrounding by a wealth of rich literary works and which were intellectually intimidating to say the least during the interview.
The interview is truly long form, and comes in at over two half hours. We talk about many many issues indeed, ranging from how to face up to our mistakes to salami-slicing of health services through to thoughts on personal resilience. Paul also shares a story about how he had to sprint from a house to escape a home visit that went very wrong, running for his life in knee deep snow. I would encourage everyone to listen to the episode in its entirety, as they are some real treats and valuable insights at the backend of he interview.
I would say, there are a lot of controversial comment and opinion on the mechanics of healthcare politics. I do encourage you all to keep an open mind and make your own conclusion on some of the subjects discussed.
Please enjoy the interview, feel free to comment or send an email with feedback!!