Innovative Legal Leadership: Recent Episodes

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In early 2021, I. Stephanie Boyce made history as the first woman of color to become President of The Law Society of England and Wales (LSEW) in its 200-plus year history. Although her tenure as acting President is over, her work to advance the DEI discussion by putting words into action is just beginning.

The President of the Leicester University Law Society and Board of Trustees member for JUSTICE shares her incredible insights on in-house legal challenges and the future of DEI.

Join us as we discuss:

• Stephanie’s journey to becoming President of LSEW (2:09)

• Her contributions to DEI initiatives during her tenure (9:18)

• Being a steady voice in leadership during times of crises (17:10)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• I. Stephanie Boyce

• The Law Society of England and Wales

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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From Oslo to New York to Japan, Bjanre Tellmann has lived a life worthy of a Viking saga. Early in his legal journey, the General Counsel of Haleon embraced a philosophy of serendipity, seeing every opportunity as a new adventure.

And that’s because nobody ever wrote about the man or woman who played it safe.

The author of Building an Outstanding Legal Team: Battle-Tested Strategies from a General Counsel shares incredible stories from his expansive career and insights into the exponential changes in legal.

Join us as we discuss:

• How Bjarne’s love of storytelling led him to legal (8:13)

• The inspiration behind writing Building an Outstanding Legal Team (25:01)

• Why the human connection will supersede technology (39:47)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Bjanre Tellmann

- Building an Outstanding Legal Team: Battle-Tested Strategies from a General Counsel

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Lisa Mather had no intentions of becoming a lawyer when she started college. But her first academic love of science drew her to environmental law and, ultimately, a successful career in legal.

Lisa traversed the world with her two children while working at several international firms before taking her current position as Global General Counsel at Mars Wrigley in 2022.

She shares her insights on being a career-driven mother, her passion for ESG efforts, and setting her team up for success in a polycrisis world.

Join us as we discuss:

• Why family shouldn’t be a roadblock to international opportunities (8:35)

• Immediate priorities in her new GC role and ESG commitments (19:21)

• Instilling the need for diversity in future generations (29:35)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Lisa Mather

• Mars Wrigley

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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As a younger legal counsel, the transition from law firm to in-house can certainly be a bumpy one. As the realization of daily expectations sets in, the workload volume can seem overwhelming.

When Sneha Desai, Chief Legal Counsel of Global Litigation & Employment at Stryker, senses that anxiety in her juniors, she imparts the advice passed down to her: do what makes sense.

Sneha talks with us about her early struggles in-house, her commitment to pro bono work, and the importance of empathy in relationships.

Join us as we discuss:

• Empowering junior talent to take control of DEI initiatives (10:12)

• Why team awareness is an essential leadership trait (19:47)

• Advice for in-house leaders on alternative fee arrangements (28:36)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Volunteer Lawyers for Justice

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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The pandemic forced the entire world to pivot on a moment’s notice, but perhaps no other industry felt the brunt of its impact like procurement.

Procurement and legal have always had a rocky partnership. But the pandemic reset expectations by driving innovation, both in technology and relationships.

Dr. Elouise Epstein, Partner at Kearney and author of Trade wars, pandemics, and chaos, shares how procurement was forced to fast-forward its digital transformation in a world turned upside down.

Join us as we discuss:

• How the pandemic accelerated procurement’s evolution (2:42)

• Bridging the legal-procurement gap through relationships (20:20)

• The impact of ESG initiatives on the future of procurement (32:55)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Dr. Elouise Epstein

• Kearney

• Trade wars, pandemics, and chaos: How digital procurement enables business success in a disordered world

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Cynthia Lareine, Director of Community Development at PERSUIT, fanned a fire in her resolve from a young age. The daughter of proud Nigerian parents, Cynthia endured discrimination from students and teachers alike while attending her boarding school in Manchester, England. Later, she handled her share of well-meaning depreciation and racial assumptions as a junior associate.

Today, she’s applying the lessons she’s learned to help improve legal relationships and push the industry toward a brighter future.

Cynthia shares how her formative experiences pushed her to where she is today and her passion for bridging the gaps in legal-client services.

Join us as we discuss:

• How childhood discrimination influenced her career path (3:44)

• The pressures endured by junior associates at large firms (10:02)

• Her work with the African legal community and PERSUIT (23:00)

• Cynthia’s future as the podcast’s host (37:03)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Cynthia Lareine

• PERSUIT

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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For Sabrina Nguyen , General Counsel and CCO at Danone UK & Ireland , the odds were stacked against her on day one. Born in post-war Vietnam, she and her mother spent three years in refugee camps before finding a new life in America.

But after growing up among the farmlands of Missouri, she felt the pull back to her international roots.

Sabrina shares the experiences of her career journey across three continents and the impact her cultural immersion has had on her work and with her teams.

Join us as we discuss:

• How Sabrina’s background influenced her career journey (5:14)
• Peeling back cultural layers in international teams (14:07)
• Weighing potential against experience when evaluating talent (26:18)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Sabrina Nguyen
• Danone UK & Ireland

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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When Doug Barnard , Senior Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary at CF Industries , joined the company in 2004, he was already fighting an uphill battle.

On the verge of bankruptcy, the owners of CF were determined to sell the company. But Doug saw an opportunity - why not take the company public? In 2005, Doug’s vision became a reality as CF Industries presented its IPO, turning CF’s fortunes around in the process.

In this episode, Doug shares his experience participating in his first successful IPO and what legacy he’d like to leave behind.

Join us as we discuss:

• Drafting the CF Industries IPO prospectus (6:48)
• A harrowing four-way takeover battle (14:05)
• Recruitment and retention of in-house legal talent (23:56)
• Leaving a proud legacy with your team (30:31)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Doug Barnard
• CF Industries

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Big legal departments have plenty of brainpower, but any team without direction is doomed to underachieve.

That’s why the powers that be at UBS asked Thomas Barothy to bring his financial management expertise to his current role with them as Chief Operating Officer of Legal.

By painting a clear vision and implementing a proper strategy for his legal department, Thomas helped his supportive team reach their true potential.

Join us as we discuss:

• Pivoting a financial background into legal (5:01)
• How to approach team members resistant to change (26:10)
• Advice for those starting their journey in legal operations (42:11)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Thomas Barothy
• UBS

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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In days past, in-house legal was traditionally seen as a “last resort” for up-and-coming lawyers.

While that mindset is fading, corporate in-house legal teams are constantly exposed to unique challenges, especially when it's a small team stretched to its limits.

Jackie Rice, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary at MillerKnoll, tells us about her transition from a large team at General Motors to her smaller IP-focused team and setting them up for success.

Join us as we discuss:

• Learning core competencies in a new industry (6:19)
• Her priorities in transitioning to her new role as GC (18:54)
• Alleviating her team’s duties with tech and automation (24:16)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Jackie Rice
• MillerKnoll

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Early on in his legal career at Novartis, Maurus Schreyvogel encountered a frustrating obstacle. The legal team had no tools, no technology, no access to knowledge, and consequently, they found themselves reinventing the wheel over and over.

It was so frustrating, in fact, that he was prepared to leave the company. Instead, he was presented with a mission that convinced him to stay: Establish transparency and bring about positive operational change within legal.

He has remained at Novartis ever since. In his current capacity of Chief Legal Innovation Officer, he is working to set the vision for how law can help society operate more equitably in the future.

We discuss:

• Auditing the legal function to bring about operational change

• Focusing on value rather than cost

• Legal’s role in the digital transformation journey

• Transforming into collaborators instead of counselors

• Increasing access to law for all

Hear more stories by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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As a child of young parents, Rene Du Preez always felt she had to jump right in and give her all with everything she did.

Rene started her career as the only female associate at her first South African law firm in the early 90s. Since then, the GC at Standard Bank Group has become an advocate and mentor for other African women breaking into the field.

Rene shares with us how her experiences in investment and retail banking helped shape her as a leader and a champion for change in the African legal space.

Join us as we discuss:

• Takeaways from Rene’s experience with multiple South African firms (8:42)
• Technology and workplace pivots post-pandemic (21:04)
• Doing away with time sheets in favor of outcome-driven expenses (32:00)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Rene Du Preez
• Standard Bank Group

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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With nearly 100 thousand TikTok followers and over 5 million likes, Alex Su is one of several young professionals leading the charge for change in legal through social media.

The Head of Community Development at Ironclad and columnist for Above The Law also caused a stir when his article, Profitable Misery, went viral this summer.

In this episode, Alex shares his thoughts on technology, the hourly rate, and the “sh*twork" often attached to it.

Join us as we discuss:

• The Profitable Misery article and the billable hour disconnect (4:23)
• Younger generations forcing change in billing practices (14:53)
• Shedding the self-imposed lawyer identity (26:29)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Alex Su
• Ironclad
• Above The Law
• Profitable Misery
• Legaltechbro (Alex’s TikTok)

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Asya Alexandrovich developed a deep appreciation for the American legal system after immigrating to the U.S. as a young teenager. Her Ukrainian upbringing instilled resilience and determination that helped push her through the ranks of the in-house legal field.

Today, as Chief Legal Officer for American Family Insurance in Madison, Wisconsin, she leads the charge in guiding her team to find solutions for their customers.

Join us as we discuss:

• The Ukrainian-American dynamic in Asya’s career path (3:50)
• Innovation hacks for risk management and problem-solving (15:48)
• Why empathy is a critical leadership quality in tough times (31:44)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Asya Alexandrovich
• American Family Insurance

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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The ambiguous nature of legal work can leave clients skeptical when it comes to alternative fee arrangements. But by overcoming their fear of overpaying for legal aid, clients can actually get the value they deserve.

David Falstein , VP of Customer Success and Strategy at PERSUIT , shares why he believes alternative fee arrangements will be the ultimate successor to the billable hour.

Join us as we discuss:

• Debunking the uncertainty around alternative fee arrangements (13:34)
• Challenges to transitioning to a fixed fee model in law firms (24:30)
• The mental health connection to billable hours (30:49)

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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The billable hour is infamous for its toll on mental health in the legal field. Rather than promote innovation and inclusion, billable hours create undue stress by influencing unrealistic quotas and meaningless labor.

By abolishing old behaviors, firms can attract talented and diverse associates who are eager to make a difference through out-come driven results.

Nathan Collier, Director of Content Marketing at PERSUIT, joins Jim Delkousis for a candid conversation about billable hours and their negative impact on the industry.

Join us as we discuss:

- Mental health statistics for the legal field (6:29)

- What an outcome-driven model looks like (32:21)

- Why the billable hour is the enemy of diversity (48:07)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Nathan Collier

• PERSUIT

Further reading on this topic:

• The CDC’s 2016 Report on Professional Suicide Rates

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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For this episode, we hop in the Innovative Legal Leadership time machine to revisit our conversation with Leslie Davis, CEO of the National Association of Minority & Women-Owned Law Firms (NAMWOLF).

Minority and women-led law firms fighting for equal opportunities is a continuing struggle. Raising awareness and presenting clear strategies to eliminate the discrimination are essential to creating change.

So, come along with us as we recap Leslie’s journey into law and how she’s moving the needle for these firms.

Join us as we discuss:

- Leslie’s call to action to general counsel (8:16)

- Initial steps to start hiring NAMWOLF firms (16:55)

- Positive influence from mentors and advice (21:44)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Leslie Davis
• National Association of Minority & Women Owned Law Firms

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Legal ops goes a lot deeper than managing templates and a list of law firms. A big focus of the function is on tracking data and determining what bits are useful for process improvement.

In this episode, we chat with LaTrece Johnson, Head of Legal Operations at Palo Alto Networks, about the what, the why, and the how of setting up a legal ops function.

We discuss:

• The primary goals for setting up a legal function

• Why the legal ops function is important

• What success looks like for legal ops

• Understanding spend rather than controlling it

Hear more stories by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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It’s easy to overthink the little things. Sometimes, the corporate legal ladder can look like Mt. Everest, but something as simple as a positive attitude can help you reach the summit.

You just have to be willing to escape your comfort zone and go for it.

Jeff Langlands, General Counsel of Corporate, Digital, and Networks at BT Group Plc and Director of EE Limited, spoke with us about setting his stall out in becoming a GC.

Join us as we discuss:

• Opportunities for “the next challenge” (15:55)
• Traits Jeff looks for as a mentor (22:29)
• Notable differences between in-house and external firms (25:37)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• BT Group Plc

• EE Limited

• DLA Piper

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Moving your family across the world to pursue career advancement can be challenging, but the opportunity to impact people and move others to action can make it all worthwhile.

And the more we learn about ourselves along the way, the greater the empowerment we can pass on to our teams.

Marcela Kirberger, Executive Vice President, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary at Elanco, tells us how her global escapades have shaped her outlook on human relationships.

Join us as we discuss:

- Identifying opportunities for leadership growth (7:30)

- Winning hearts and minds in compliance (15:43)

- The future of legal operations (25:32)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Marcela Kirberger

• Elanco

• BioCrossroads

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or here.

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Many legal counsels find their early spark while mastering the art of the corporate deal.

Those formative years can be critical in learning to acknowledge priorities and narrow the scope of your clients’ needs.

Philip Kirkpatrick, Regional General Counsel - North America at Rabobank, tells us how his early days as a deal fanatic translated into his stance on authentic leadership as a GC.

Join us as we discuss:

• Importance of transparency in your legal team (12:10)
• Foreseen challenges in the legal field (22:41)
• COVID’s impact on team engagement (26:19)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Philip Kirkpatrick
• Rabobank

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.

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We’ve had the privilege of talking to several standout legal professionals who defied family expectations to take a path less traveled.

Be it love for language or logic that launches these careers, pivotal moments often influence these pillars of the legal community to help bridge the gaps in their field.

Chaman Sidhu, Chief Legal Officer at Xero, joined us to how her experience in high-growth environments shaped her growth and narrowed her approach to risk.

Join us as we discuss:

- Innovating and questioning the status quo (10:47)

- Advice for GCs at a high-growth company (23:09)

- Technology’s role in the future of legal (31:44)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Chaman Sidhu

• Xero

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or here.

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Preparing a legal team for a fresh IPO launch is exciting, but it also comes with its share of challenges. Communication is key, and authentic leadership is needed so that different perspectives can freely join the conversation.

Christina Lai, Vice Presid ent, Deputy General Counsel and Corporate Secretary for Robinhood, tells us how her experience prepared her to lead her team into the future.

Join us as we discuss:

• Christina’s first-time experience helping launch an IPO (17:23)

• Her legal department’s values and long-term strategy (29:46)

• The importance of authenticity in leadership and growth (37:37)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

• Christina Lai

• Robinhood

• Breakthrough Silicon Valley

You can find this interview and many more by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or here .

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General counsel shouldn’t be seen as an obstacle to the success of the company; and yet, they are often seen as the unnecessary evil when reminding the team about compliance.

In this episode, we speak with Jonathan Polk, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer at Melio, to learn about his mission to find balance in legal while generating consensus around the things that help a company grow.

Join us as we discuss:

• Balancing compliance with culture
• Building trust with the team and consumers
• Walking the tightrope of compliance triage

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Client facing interactions can become more effective by including your legal team in the sales enablement process. Establishing relationships between product managers and legal professionals creates an ecosystem where project approvals and closing business deals happen quickly and efficiently.

In this episode, we speak with Irene Liu, Chief Legal Officer of Hopin, about how her team enables business partners and the use cases for legal departments using legal technology platforms like PERSUIT.

Join us as we discuss:

• Sales enablement processes
• The use cases for legal technology
• Representation & closing the gender gap

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By stepping out of our comfort zone, we encounter diverse outcomes and have the potential to discover aspects of ourselves we had never considered before.

That can look like striking up a conversation with someone new, attempting a recipe that seems above your skill level, volunteering to take on a project at work you’ve never done before, or even changing career paths.

In this episode, we speak with Lori Schechter, EVP, Chief Legal Officer & General Counsel at McKesson Corporation, about what it takes to step out of your comfort zone, how she navigated her chapter two, and the wisdom she’s gained.

We discuss:

• Stepping out of your comfort zone
• Navigating company initiatives
• What makes a quality law firm partner

Hear more stories by subscribing to Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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They say there’s an outlier in every family, someone who makes different choices and treads a new path—like a business student in a family of doctors.

Whichever career path we choose, we all grapple with similar questions; fighting the myth of work-life balance, identifying what it takes to lead, figuring out what success means to us, etc.

In this episode, we speak with Jim Moffat, President, at JSM Advisors, Inc. and former CEO of Deloitte Consulting, about being his family's outlier, lessons he’s learned across his career as a consultant, and the one thing it comes down to at the end of the day.

We discuss:

• Parenting strategies for type A parents
• The illusion of work life balance
• A key quality for leadership
• Creating healthy company cultures

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CFOs and General Counsels can’t just rely on a strong relationship to predict spending, you have to have a system in place that takes the guesswork out of managing your organizations legal spend.

In this episode, we’re joined by Ron Gill, Former CFO of NetSuite and current Operating Partner and Board Member at Lead Edge Capital. We speak to Ron about becoming a globally recognized CFO, relationships between a General Counsels and CFOs, and why he sees PERSUIT as a solution to legal spend predictability.

Join us as we discuss:

• High Growth Companies At Different Economic Cycles
• Becoming a Globally Recognized CFO
• Visibility Into Legal Spending

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The repercussions from the beginning of COVID-19 will continue to be felt for years to come. While there have been and will continue to be many negatives from the pandemic, for some professions, it pushed their work into the forefront and emphasized how important their roles are in everyday business and legal functions. 

In this episode, we’re shifting gears away from speaking with General Counsel and legal teams to take a deep dive into procurement with Dr. Elouise Epstein, Partner at Kearney. 

We discuss: 

• How COVID-19 has impacted procurement
• Why digital is an evolving factor in the business
• Collaborating with legal teams

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We all want meaningful work and to know at the end of the day, our work mattered.

Impacting the next generation by engaging with them and passing the baton to them, while simultaneously figuring out how to evolve to the next step in our careers.

In this episode, we speak with Marc Barbeau, Executive Vice President and Chief Legal Officer at Air Canada, about lessons he’s learned in 30 plus years of law and why he’s thrilled for this next step at Air Canada.

We discuss:

• How to look back and learn from challenges in your past
• The benefits of sponsoring and the difference from mentoring
• Why personal growth and relationships are important
• What advice Marc has for up and coming law professionals

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For most organizations, the legal function is long overdue for transformation—and legal ops is best placed to drive that transformation.

In this episode, we speak with Andrew Brereton, Vice President of Legal Operations at ServiceNow, about the what, the why, and the how of driving value and transformation for the legal organization from legal ops.

We discuss:

• Why legal ops is vital to driving value and transformation
• Early initiatives that build a foundation to deliver on transformation
• The high-level process around transforming legal workflows
• Best practices for gaining buy-in and managing change

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Ivan Fong holds pu blic service in high regard. The son of immigrants (his parents fled China during the communist revolution), Ivan experienced the advantages and opportunities of living in the United States firsthand. Public service is his way of giving back to the country that gave his family so much.

His time at the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, and as a clerk to Justice Sandra Day O’Connor also provided an incredible grounding in law and government relations, that led him to becoming the Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary at Medtronic.

We discuss:

• Gaining experience through public and community service
• Setting clear priorities in times of crisis
• Creating psychological safety in the workplace
• Increasing expectations for corporate responsibility

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When Katina Thornock was a young associate, she was fortunate to have the mentorship of strong female shareholders. When nerves would creep in before a civil deposition, one, in particular, would say, “Don’t let those old guys walk all over you. You know the material and you know the craft. Now, go do it.”

Empowerment—that’s what strong mentorship and honest feedback cultivates. It’s the sacred charge of legal leaders around the world—to empower those who are less experienced and provide a support system that enables personal development.

Katina takes that mission seriously as Vice President and Senior Litigation Counsel at Providence. It manifests in the stories she imparts to young attorneys, in the programs she implements that create safe spaces for young lawyers to fail and to learn, and in the work she puts into D&I initiatives.

We discuss:

• How real honest feedback can enhance personal development
• How to expand the legal function in a high-growth company
• Seizing a seat at the business table
• Doing the work in DNI

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Lindsey Haswell was determined to be either a broadcast journalist or a lawyer. Because it’s at the epicenter of policy and economics, she chose law.

She started out as a litigator at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher before making the leap to a small (at the time) startup called Uber. She viewed it as an investment in her future, an opportunity to learn how to build and run a business and how legal furthers the mission of the business.

She passes these lessons along to her team in her current role as Chief Administrative Officer and Chief Legal Officer at Blockchain.com, where they are shaping the future of financial services on the internet.

We discuss:

• Taking the risk of joining Uber
• The mindset shift required for going in-house
• Shaping predictable regulatory frameworks in crypto
• Bringing more women and non-binaries into crypto with MyBFF

More information about Lindsey Haswell and today’s topics:

• LinkedIn Profile: linkedin.com/in/lindsey-haswell-5190378
• Company Website: blockchain.com
• MyBFF on Twitter: twitter.com/MyBFF
• MyBFF on Discord: discord.com/invite/mybff
• The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz: https://a16z.com/book/the-hard-thing-about-hard-things/

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Creating a legal department your CEO would brag about doesn't happen by accident. It takes intention and care to hire the best lawyers and create an environment that stimulates growth.

Rankin Gasaway, the Executive Vice President and Chief Administrative Officer at 7-Eleven, has created an environment where lawyers are encouraged to be courageous and trust their intuition.

We discuss:

• The anxiety Gasaway felt early on in his career.
• The right way to build relationships.
• How to empower your legal team.
• Creating a diverse legal department.

More information about Rankin Gasaway and today’s topics:

• LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rankin-gasaway-853b501
• Company Website: https://www.7-eleven.com

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Richard Crabb was listed in the Legal 500 as an expert in Sports Law in 2011 and as an expert in Charity Law in 2012. But he didn’t always have a desire to work in the Legal industry.

Richard’s route into law came from a career in marketing where he had to have a comprehensive understanding of the way the law operated in order to be great at his Brand Manager role in the retail industry.

His early career in marketing and would raise a few eyebrows but his knowledge of psychology has helped him grow in his career from marketing professional to becoming the Head of Commercial, Tech & Innovation, Global Legal at HSBC

We discuss:

• Untapped Growth Opportunities For Law Firms.
• Solutions that Lawyers are looking for.
• Revenue Streams For Law Firms.

More information about Richard Crabb and today’s topics:

• LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-crabb-6b75a311
• Company Website: https://www.hsbc.com

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German-born Christoph Feddersen would not be where he is today, the Vice President & General Counsel at Collins Aerospace in Charlotte, North Carolina, were it not for the tremendous opportunities he was given to stretch himself.

Early opportunities came at international law firms Cleary Gottlieb and Morgan Lewis, and they continued to pop up in later roles as executive assistant to the chairman and CEO at United Technologies and vice president and general counsel for UTC Aerospace.

In his current role, he looks to pay it forward by empowering a global network of legal, trade, and contracts professionals, and providing opportunities for them to prove their mettle and grow.

It’s all part of the culture he has fostered, one built on a steady foundation of support and improvement.

We discuss:

• Integrating legal departments and balancing subject matter expertise across the organization
• Why culture is a key tool in talent retention
• How in-house departments and outside counsel can collaborate on DEI
• The value of employee resource groups

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The career of Jay Rosenblum, much like a stage play, has three acts.

Act 1: Government Service, first as a clerk for an appellate judge, followed by a role in the Clinton Administration.

Act 2: In-house government affairs roles at highly regulated financial institutions during a time of historic regulatory change.

Act 3: Senior roles in corporate leadership, first as Chief HR Officer with Guardian Life, and today, as the EVP & Chief Legal Officer at Assurant.

Take that as evidence that Jay believes in trying new things and taking risks. He talks about his wide-ranging career, the lessons he learned along the way, and the challenges that GCs face today.

We discuss:

• Lessons from his time at the White House
• Structuring the legal department to best serve business priorities
• A purposeful approach to talent retention
• Assurant’s DEI initiatives

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Tammy Moss Finley is a people person.

Early in her career, as a labor and employment attorney, she found herself drawn to the HR world. When the opportunity arrived to join Advance Auto Parts in the HR department, she jumped at the chance. She would have the opportunity to put in place programs that would prevent the very labor issues she was being called in to handle as a lawyer.

Since that moment, she has spent 18 years in roles that have straddled the worlds of law and HR.

Today, as the Executive Vice President, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary, her focus is on people—her team members and the law firms they work with—and putting practices in place that enable growth, engagement, and fulfillment.

We discuss:

• Growing a legal team and allocating resources to best support the business
• Managing cybersecurity and privacy risks for the enterprise
• Developing relationships with law firms
• Investing resources into DEI

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The tables have turned, and the normal host of the show, Jim Delkousis, is the guest on this episode.

After having spent most of his career with law firms, including most recently as a partner with DLA Piper, Jim had reached a crossroads. Approaching 50, he began to wonder, would the lessons of this upcoming decade be any different—or more of the same?

At the same time, Jim was seeing digital innovation come to the fore in a panoply of industries, and he was beginning to dream up a vision for what that might look like in the legal world.

So, he took a chance and founded PERSUIT, a software platform that helps in-house legal teams choose the right outside counsel for a particular scope of work.

Special guest host Cynthia Lareine, Director of Community Development at PERSUIT, chats with Jim about the journey.

They discuss:

• Transitioning from partner in a law firm to founder of a legal tech company
• Lessons from talking with the in-house community on this show
• His personal innovation heroes
• Why it’s valuable to learn how to be comfortable being uncomfortable

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As her parents tell it, Kristin Sverchek, President of Business Affairs at Lyft, was a natural born advocate. As a child, she had a knack for clearly arguing her case.

That ability to effectively advocate on behalf of herself and others has come in handy in her career which has included stints at Gunderson Dettmer, Silicon Legal Strategy, and Zimride, the company that launched Lyft.

At Lyft, in particular, Kristin was instrumental in the early battles for survival and the establishment of a legal foundation for ride sharing that has enabled the company to grow to the transportation powerhouse it is today.

We discuss:

• The decision to become the first legal hire at Lyft

• Early transportation regulatory battles

• The “Super Bowl for General Counsels”—preparing to take the company public

• Taking on broader responsibilities as President of Business Affairs

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Recently, Brandon Pace rediscovered a journal he penned when he was 5 or 6 years old. In it, he had written that he wanted to become either a doctor or a lawyer.

When you come from a family of doctors and lawyers, those may seem like obvious choices. However, there was a deliberate intention behind it—a desire to focus on service and helping others.

Brandon was also fascinated by technology. That’s what led him to pursue a position at one of the top tech firms in Silicon Valley out of law school. That same passion led him to eBay, and finally to LendingClub, where he serves as Chief Administrative Officer and Corporate Secretary today.

We discuss:

• His deliberate choice to work for technology-focused law firms and companies

• The process of stabilizing an embattled company and rebuilding public trust

• The challenge of finding key partners in outside law firms

• How better outcomes can be achieved with a breadth of perspectives

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Challenges faced when we’re young inform our ability to handle pressure as adults.

That was certainly the case for Anneliese Reinhold. When she was 13, her mother passed away from bowel cancer, and that tragedy kicked off a span of ten years that were rife with family turmoil.

Yet, Anneliese believes that dealing with existential struggles at a young age is exactly what enabled her to succeed in challenging environments that crossed cultural boundaries throughout her career.

The challenges she overcame gave her grit. They imbued her with determination and emotional resilience. Those qualities have enabled her to climb to where she is today: General Counsel & Senior Vice President of Legal Affairs at du located in the United Arab Emirates.

We discuss:

• How family turmoil lended her the fortitude to tough out challenging situations

• Why learning the intricacies of new cultures is key to understanding how to work within them

• The value of developing strong relationships with law firms

• The ethics of combining the GC role with business functions

Mentioned during the podcast:

• Dubai Angel InvestorsAssociation of Corporate Counsel

• The Institute of Directors

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Our guest today made a lot of big life decisions at a young age—a very young age.

David Keim, SVP & General Counsel of Global Corporate Legal Affairs at SAS, decided to become a lawyer in the 4th grade after reading about Patrick Henry.

Not only that, he met his future wife in Kindergarten (although he admits it took until the 10th grade before he realized she was the one).

David knows a lot about contractual agreements—both marital and otherwise.

His time at International Family Entertainment included involvement in drafting contracts for a veritable assembly line of acquisitions and divestitures. Today, he passes on that knowledge to the next generation of lawyers as an adjunct professor teaching the mechanics of drafting contracts.

We discuss:

• How an early fascination with Patrick Henry launched his journey into law

• His path from entertainment law to general counsel at SAS

• Strategies for attracting and retaining talent

• The mechanics of contracts

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Benoit Balmary comes from a long line of lawyers dating back 200 years. So, you could argue that he was simply making the safe choice by going into law. He jokingly says as much.

But there was a deeper pull as well: a basic belief in the nobility of law and the idea that it single-handedly separates us from chaos.

Of course, as Group General Counsel at Michelin, Benoit is dealing with a far different environment than his ancestors did hundreds of years ago. Given the rapid rate of change, the challenge for today’s in-house legal teams is not to maintain the status quo, but to adapt to the rapid evolution of the legal environment.

We discuss:

• Transforming a siloed legal organization into a hyper collaborative global team

• Creating an ambassador between the legal team and the business

• Michelin’s framework for managing law firm relationships

• Change management within a 130-year-old company

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Terry Theologides, Executive Vice President, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary at Fannie Mae, attributes much of his success to his youthful impatience.

It was youthful impatience that led him to move in-house as a fourth year at Wynn International.

It was also youthful impatience that gave him the confidence to go after his first GC role at New Century Financial Corporation after only two years on the job.

Were there some gaps in knowledge and expertise early on? In retrospect, yes. But what he did have was a healthy respect for adhering to a good process and an uncanny ability to soak up new knowledge like a sponge.

Today, this focus is on promoting affordable, equitable homeownership for Americans in areas that have been traditionally underserved and modernizing the legal function.

We discuss:

• The appeal and indispensable quality of in-house work

• Strategies for leading a team through challenging periods

• Bringing discipline to an organization without disrupting the existing quality of work

• The exciting upcoming transformation in the way law is done

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At an early age, Meredith Fuchs realized that if you understood the law, you could make a positive impact on society

The roots of this view can be traced back to an enduring love for the book, To Kill a Mockingbird. It’s why she places so much emphasis on mission and people in her career.

That drive to make a difference led her to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), where she was a part of the startup team, it led her to CapitalOne where she set out to change banking for good, and it’s what led her to her current position, as General Counsel and Corporate Secretary at Plaid, a company that aims to unlock financial freedom for everyone.

We discuss:

• The process of building a legal team at the CFPB

• How to determine priorities at a new company

• The benefit of embedding lawyers in product groups

• Important attributes in new legal hires

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Karyn Polak views her career as a series of ever expanding circles.

After starting out in corporate finance and capital markets, she progressively expanded her circle into other skill sets, other types of companies, and other challenges.

This devotion to constant growth stems from a personal belief: Once you’ve been in a seat for a little while, that’s when it’s time to go outside your comfort zone.

It’s that growth mindset that has enabled her to flourish as SVP, General Counsel and Secretary at Transamerica, and it’s the reason why she gives her team ongoing opportunities to expand beyond their circles as well.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The importance of stepping outside your comfort zone

• Overcoming the challenges of a distributed workforce

• Three ingredients for a collaborative, high-performing team

• How diverse perspectives lead to deeper context

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What drew Paul Krause to the legal profession?

Logic games and puzzles.

It makes complete sense for someone who, contrary to popular belief, doesn’t view legal work as adversarial. A lawyer's job, according to Paul, is all about understanding legal concepts, understanding your audience, and putting those disparate puzzle pieces together in a way that makes efficient decision-making possible for the business.

That’s what his in-house career has been all about, starting as a Senior Counsel at ArcelorMittal, and presently, as Vice President, Chief Legal Officer, and Chief Compliance Officer at Harley-Davidson.

We discuss:

• His meteoric rise within Harley Davidson

• Prizing legal efficiency from outside counsels

• The biggest challenges facing in-house legal departments moving forward

• Why it’s important to make legal accessible

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Between undergrad and law school, Karen Gally, Vice President and General Counsel of Otsuka Pharmaceutical Companies, wanted to be absolutely sure a legal career was right for her. So, for a time, she pursued another profession.

That brief spell in corporate communications and public policy introduced her to the world of healthcare—and that ultimately led to a lifelong passion for health law.

During her tenure as GC, she has taken an active role in diversity and inclusion initiatives. She firmly believes that diversity is key to providing incomparable legal services, and with how complicated the industry is, diverse talent, diverse experiences, and diverse opinions are the only way to keep up with a changing world.

We discuss:

• The challenges of navigating legal matters with an alliance company

• Otsuka’s award-winning Diversity Accelerator Program

• The benefits of legal design thinking

• Volunteering on the Board of the Alliance of Aging Research

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After only 6 months at Tenneco, and at the tender age of 28, Brandon Smith found himself advising the CEO on how to navigate the company through bankruptcy.

For Brandon, that was nothing new. In fact, he’s made a career out of capitalizing on opportunities to take on responsibilities beyond what is typically given to someone of his age and experience level.

That trajectory of accelerated growth started when he was at Kirkland & Ellis and has continued through to his current position as Executive Vice President & General Counsel at CHS.

His is a story about the stars aligning—that is true. But it’s also a story about leaning in during a time of crisis and stepping forward while others back away.

In this episode, we discuss:

• An early career opportunity concerning bankruptcy law

• Two attributes aspiring GCs should focus on

• How a promise of making a difference in rural America drew him to CHS

• How he approaches talent development and diversity and inclusion

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Regina Jones, Chief Legal Officer at Baker Hughes, witnessed, firsthand, the value of integrity early on in her career. With a front-row seat to the Enron scandal, she learned that good intentions mean little if you leave your moral compass at the door.

Since then, integrity and transparency have become hallmarks of her leadership style, along with an unwavering commitment to community and collaboration, and a willingness to embrace new technology and new ways of doing things.

According to Regina, that’s the obligation of the general counsel: to be the moral compass of the company. In the modern world, it is the GC’s responsibility to lead from the front.

We discuss:

• Why technological acumen is a major differentiator in law

• The promising potential of legal technology and how to drive adoption

• How the Enron debacle taught Regina the importance of integrity

• How the GC role will evolve

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“Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get.”

Today’s guest, Jennifer Wuamett, takes that popular quote one step further: You also need to try out different selections before you recognize which one you like best.

Indeed, her life bears that out.

As a child, she aspired to be a librarian. In college, it was a biomedical illustrator. After starting down the path of a Ph.D. program in biochemistry, she eventually switched over to law, where she discovered a passion for dealmaking and negotiation—and that’s how the scientist and artist turned lawyer.

Today, the self-described “deal junkie” is the Executive Vice President, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary for NXP Semiconductors.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Lessons from unifying two legal departments in a merger

• How the scope of work for GCs has grown

• Important areas to focus on for aspiring GCs

• Providing the team with lateral opportunities to promote engagement

• Hiring using a value-based framework

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It was clear to Katie Barrett from an early age that she was destined for a career in law. Indeed, early — and frequent — arguments with her parents clearly proved she had a knack for the art of persuasion.

Her early practice was focused on litigation — both in private practice, and subsequently, in-house with Anheuser-Busch InBev — and she credits that focus with creating valuable connections across the organization and providing a master class on how a business is run.

Today, as Global General Counsel, she cultivates a culture of diversity and support so that those with an aptitude for collaboration can advance and thrive within the organization.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why early experience with litigation is great in a legal career

• How to develop a global team of experts

• Why collaboration is such an important leadership skill

• Fostering a culture of female leadership

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Step out of your comfort zone and you will be able to handle a remarkable range of issues.

The career of Tom Moriarty is a testament to that.

Early on, he accepted the risk of leaving a big law firm to join a smaller one. His goal was to develop professional skills that would pay dividends later on.

At Merck, Mako Health, and CVS Health, where he’s currently the Executive Vice President, Chief Policy and External Affairs Officer and General Counsel, he continuously took on diverse roles, often without much previous experience.

What he did have was a growth mindset, and the courage to venture outside of his wheelhouse.

The result: A long and distinguished professional life that has revolved around the intersection between law, policy and regulation.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Navigating the interplay between law, policy and regulation

• Strategies for brand reputation management

• Playing a central role in COVID-19 testing and the vaccine rollout

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In a special Thanksgiving episode, host Jim Delkousis shares a compilation of insightful thoughts our guests have had on the topic of diversity, equity and inclusion.

Our guests talk about the importance of inclusion, of bias awareness, of leveraging data to enhance DEI efforts, and of diversity of thought.

So, this Thanksgiving, sit back and listen in to what diversity, equity and inclusion means to our guests and their organizations, and what we can do as an industry to continue moving forward towards a more diverse, equitable and inclusive future.

Featuring quotes from:

• Harvey Anderson - Chief Legal Officer at HP

• Sabine Chalmers - Group General Counsel at BT

• Ann Kappler - Executive Vice President & General Counsel at Prudential Financial

• Phyllis Harris - Chief General Counsel & Chief Compliance Officer at American Red Cross

• Rishi Varma - General Counsel & Corporate Secretary at HPE

• Darren Zeidel - Executive Vice President & General Counsel at Aon

• Vanessa Sutherland - Chief Legal Officer at Norfolk Southern Corporation

• Vanessa Watson - Senior Vice President & Assistant General Counsel at Mastercard

• Akshay Verma - Director & Head of Legal Ops at Meta

• Leslie D. Davis - CEO of NAMWOLF

• Bruce Byrd - Executive Vice President & General Counsel at Palo Alto Networks

• Tom O’Neill - Partner at Jenner & Block and previously Senior Vice President and General Counsel at Exelon

• Louise Pentland - Executive Vice President & Chief Business Affairs and Legal Officer at PayPal

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Bindu Cudjoe has spun a passion for transactions and deal-making into a rewarding career in the banking industry.

Starting out in private practice negotiating deals for banks, she later transitioned in house joining BMO Bank in a variety of roles. Today, she is the Senior Vice President, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary at Canadian Western Bank.

Tapped as a finalist for Female Trailblazer of the Year by Canadian Lawyer Magazine and named a Leading Lawyer Under 40 by Lexpert, she is known for a curiosity and optimism she brings to the legal function.

It’s a dynamic combination that energizes those who work with her and imbues collaborative efforts with an unbridled sense of creativity.

We discuss:

• Why legal should aim for incremental innovation rather than invention

• Embracing curiosity and optimism

• How to foster the right attitude toward risk taking

• Building an educational program for female lawyers looking to advance their careers

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The story of Caroline Tsai begins on a chicken farm 40 miles outside of Sao Paulo, Brazil.

When she turned 5, her family traded in a life devoted to 20,000 chickens for a life in the big apple. Now Asian-American, her parents had but one expectation for her: become a doctor.

It turned out that fate had other plans. Upon taking her first political science class, Caroline became enamored with the idea of going into law.

Following tenures at both Bank of America and BMO Financial Group, she became the Chief Legal Officer & Corporate Secretary at Western Union, where she is committed to fostering innovation in the fintech industry and mentoring the next generation of Asian-American lawyers.

We discuss:

• What law schools can learn from business schools

• The importance of stretching yourself

• How the legal function helps drive innovation, especially in Fintech

• Paying it forward through DEI initiatives and mentoring the next generation

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Shanti Ariker knows tech. The majority of her career has been spent working in the tech sector for companies like Twilio , Autodesk , and Salesforce , selling everything from hardware to software, and from licensing to subscriptions.

She now works at Zendesk as the SVP, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary.

This wasn’t the roadmap she had in mind at the start, but all the stops along her career path have led to where she is today.

Her advice to others: Don’t stay on your path just because you think you’re supposed to. Pay attention to unexpected opportunities when they crop up; they might just lead you to where you’re meant to be.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Tips for transparently managing others

• Finding a “Personal Board of Directors” to help guide your career

• The importance of understanding the budgeting and planning process

• Strategies for scaling a global team

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Early on in his legal career at Novartis , Maurus Schreyvogel encountered a frustrating obstacle. The legal team had no tools, no technology, no access to knowledge, and consequently, they found themselves reinventing the wheel over and over.

It was so frustrating, in fact, that he was prepared to leave the company. Instead, he was presented with a mission that convinced him to stay: Establish transparency and bring about positive operational change within legal.

He has remained at Novartis ever since. In his current capacity of Chief Legal Innovation Officer, he is working to set the vision for how law can help society operate more equitably in the future.

We discuss:

• Auditing the legal function to bring about operational change

• Focusing on value rather than cost

• Legal’s role in the digital transformation journey

• Transforming into collaborators instead of counselors

• Increasing access to law for all

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For Jennifer Hightower , there’s nothing more essential than mentorship. In fact, she credits her ascent to the role of SVP and GC at Cox Communications to the amazing mentors and diverse relationships she cultivated along the way.

From her time as an insurance defense attorney to her time working at BellSouth and Cox Communications in the early days of telecom law, these mentors provided her with experience, guidance, and the motivation to keep growing.

Today, she prioritizes this tradition of mentorship with the next generation.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Getting in on the ground floor of telecom law

• Taking over the GC role in a pandemic

• Initiatives that increase collaboration and trust across the legal team

• The transfer of knowledge in a mentor/mentee relationship

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There’s a benefit to seeing the law from multiple different perspectives: it gives you an uncanny ability to understand how other people view an issue and what their definition of winning is.

Daniel Goldstein credits his suc cess as a lawyer and as a businessperson to his exposure to diverse perspectives. He has seen the world from the perspective of a federal judge as a clerk, from the perspective of a private party hiring a lawyer, from the perspective of the government with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and from the perspective of an in-house lawyer.

Currently, he is the EVP and Chief Legal and Compliance Officer at Pitney Bowes , where he leverages the hard-earned wisdom from those different perspectives to advise the business.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The immense benefit of having multiple perspectives on the law

• Managing risk for a 100+ year old company

• Partnering effectively with law firms

• How the GC role will change over the next 10 years

• Learning how to fail

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Debra Counsell followed an unusual career path to her current role as Chief Legal Officer and Company Secretary at BlueScope Steel .

Her time with DLA Piper and Clifford Chance took her from the crumbling sidewalks of Hanoi, Vietnam, to Africa, the Middle East, and Paris, France. The broad range of thorny legal issues she encountered during this period were great preparation for her transition in-house to a GC role.

In this episode, she shares the challenges, the wins, and the lessons she learned along the way.

Topics covered:

• How an unusual career path prepared her for in-house work

• Lessons from transitioning to in-house and leadership roles

• Empowering her team to be enablers and owners in the business

• How hybrid work may affect the development of junior lawyers

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Samantha Wellington entered into inter national corporate law because it was a fascinating way to witness how law forms culture and culture informs the law.

During 12 years at Oracle, she had the opportunity to become a member of the board of directors in Tokyo and Mumbai, where she gained insight into the impact of leadership and sponsorship.

In her current role as Senior Vice President, Chief Legal Officer and Secretary at TriNet, she is passionate about fostering a culture of compliance and analyzing the role that workplace culture has in helping a great company to thrive.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The appeal of international corporate law

• Avenues for learning the business side

• The opportunity to organize ESG initiatives

• Strategies to manage enterprise risk

• The employer’s role in the shared economy

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Olga V. Mack grew up in Siberia. It's rare for someone to become a world-class lawyer where she's from. Yet, here she is.

Olga began her legal career with Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati where she studied IP, security, and privacy “before those things were cool.” From there, she moved in-house where she provided legal advice for companies like Visa , Zoosk, and Clearslide .

After 15 years of practice, she received an offer out of the blue to become the CEO of Parley Pro , a contract lifecycle management platform. Today, she is molding the future of law from this position and bringing legal innovation to the masses.

Topics covered:

• Flirting with risk to unlock new opportunities

• Asking CEOs directly where you can make the biggest impact

• The value of industry knowledge

• Why law needs to be held to a higher standard of service

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Contracts are deliberately ambiguous and resistant to automation. For the most part, companies have difficulties extracting any perceivable value from them.

It’s a problem all too familiar to legal departments across the business landscape.

With Knowable, CFO Alec Guettel tackles this problem by transforming what has often been a liability for GCs into an incredible advantage. 

This isn’t Alec’s first rodeo when it comes to solving a problem shared by legal departments. Some 20 years ago, he co-founded Axiom alongside Mark Harris. That company revolutionized the way legal talent and technology was provided to corporations. 

With Knowable, he’s back at it again. 

In this episode, we discuss:

• The early years at Axiom

• How Knowable helps legal teams extract value from their contracts

• Alec’s passion for the clean energy industry

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Mary O’Carroll began her career in investment banking and management consulting, but before long, she was pulled into the nascent world of legal operations.

In her 13 years as the Director of Legal Ops at Google, Mary was instrumental in defining the scope of this newly created position. As the President of CLOC, she built a community focused on the mission of increasing awareness around the legal ops function and advancing the profession.

Today, she continues to dedicate her time to forging connections as the Chief Community Officer for Ironclad.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Defining the parameters of the legal ops role at Google

• Building a legal ops community at CLOC

• Providing digital solutions around contracting

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To be a successful lawyer, you need to be a critical thinker and an expert communicator. But according to James Kelleher, Chief Legal Officer at Liberty Mutual Insurance, the key to success lies in being two other things as well — liked and trusted.

James knows a thing or two about building a successful law career. During 39 years at Liberty Mutual Insurance, he rose through the ranks of the legal department, starting out in coverage opinions, moving into litigation, and finally into management. Success happened because he took the risk of learning something new.

We discuss:

• Being open to taking risks

• Why he remained at Liberty Mutual Insurance for 39 years

• How the role of GC has changed over the years and will change in the future

• How technology has changed the delivery of legal services

• Pro bono initiatives

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Attorney, news junkie, and tireless pro bono advocate Tom O’Neill has been on both sides of the corporate law fence.

After law school at Notre Dame, Tom joined Jenner & Block of Chicago — a diverse, 100-year-old firm committed to social justice and serving the community. Content, Tom thought he’d never leave — until he received a fascinating offer from Exelon, a major supplier of the country’s nuclear power.

From assistant associate counsel to SVP and General Counsel, this valuable experience gave Tom a unique insight into the C-suite, the energy industry, and how to lead with integrity.

Now back in private practice at J & B, Tom is leveraging what he learned in the business world to drive the growth of his firm and further his passions of diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Topics covered:

• Taking risks and not being afraid to fail spectacularly.

• Diving head first into an industry he knew less than nothing about.

• Pivoting away from private practice and back again.

“Trust yourself, and I think you'll find that there's real growth when you put yourself in a position where you have to grow — and you will.” — Tom O’Neill

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Resources from today’s episode:

• Tom O’Neill

• Exelon

Host Jim Delkousis

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In what role could a family legacy of law and an interest in business intersect? In legal operations, of course.

In this episode, I interview Mike Haven, Senior Director, Associate General Counsel, Head of Legal Operations at Intel, about his fascinating career path and its origins.

What we talked about:

• The evolution of Mike’s career, beginning in eighth grade

• His learnings at his different companies and roles

• The first 6 months at his current role

• Strategic priorities he has implemented for Intel

• All things CLOC

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Leading cultural change within a legal department requires consistency and innovation in response to situations such as the COVID-19 pandemic and telecommunication.

Anat Hakim, Senior Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary at Eli Lilly and Company, joins the show to discuss her humble beginnings, building resiliency and recognizing it in others, and strategies for cultural initiatives.

What we talked about:

• Overview of Anat’s Career & the Transition from Law Firm to In-House

• Unpacking the Formative Years of Anat’s Life

• How Anat Came to Work for Eli Lilly and Company

• Steps to Winning the American Lawyers General Counsel of the Year Award

• Aligning Cultural Initiatives w/ Organizational Resiliency

• Early Priorities & Initiatives for the Entire Legal Department

• Dispelling Myths about the GC Position & Self-Reflections on the Past

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If Louise Pentland could give her 25-year-old self a piece of advice, it would be this: be willing to fail. The EVP, Chief Business Affairs and Legal Officer at PayPal said that failure has been her most valuable career experience. That’s why she hires teams with an eye for innovation and resilience.

Recently on Innovative Legal Leadership, Louise talked with us about:- The trajectory of her stunning legal career

-Lessons from her mentors and sponsors

• Building teams founded in a culture of innovation

• Understanding financials, HR, and the legal functions-

• D&I and Louise’s hope for her cultural legacy

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Having mentors and a strong sense of resilience can make all the difference when finding your footing within corporations and law firms as a minority or woman. Hiring groups need to spend time not only on hiring with diversity in mind, but also on retaining the diverse employees.

Vanessa Watson, Vice President, Senior Managing Counsel at Mastercard International, describes her incredible journey into law, how she’s come into her success, and strategies for corporations & law firms.

What we talked about:

• Vanessa’s Shift from Theatrical Beginnings To Law

• Journey into Law and the Transition to Mastercard

• Vanessa’s Time at Mastercard

• Disrupting the Hiring of Women and Minorities

• Personal Successes and Advice for Her Children

Check out the resources below for more information:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-kaye-watson-0b980815/

• https://www.linkedin.com/company/national-association-of-minority-&-women-owned-law-firms/

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Vanessa Sutherland pursued a law degree and an MBA so she could combine her passion for analysis with a love for finances and taxes. She worked in the telecom and tobacco industries gradually advancing through in-house roles with increasing responsibility.

In 2011, she received an incredible opportunity to become the GC of a federal agency — the DOT. Currently, she is the Executive VP of Government Relations and CLO at Norfolk Southern

We discuss:

• Developing new skills and knowledge in a public service role

• Establishing a legal ops department

• Leveraging process mapping within the legal ops team

• Making personal and professional adjustments to COVID

• Supporting D&I initiatives with data

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Ann Kappler’s first passion was theatre. But while pursuing acting, a day job as a paralegal sparked a new interest: law.

At Jenner & Block, she worked with insurance agent trade association clients, which led to two Supreme Court arguments. After accepting a position as Deputy General Counsel at Fannie Mae, she discovered a love for the strategy and people management aspects of in-house work. Currently, she is the Executive Vice President and General Counsel for Prudential Financial.

We discussed:

• The advantages to working in-house versus a law firm

• Speaking for the company on external affairs and public policy

• Advocating for DEI and issues concerning financial stability

• Managing a hybrid workforce

• The importance of persuasion skills

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Sabine Chalmers started in private practice at Hogan & Lovells. While there, she had a great view into how different types of businesses were run. But she quickly realized she wanted to be part of a business. She started her in-house career with Guinness and later became GC North America of Diageo followed by CLO of Anheuser-Busch InBev. Currently, she is the Group GC at BT.

We discuss:

• The influence of having a global perspective growing up

• Offering valuable perspective as the sole woman on an executive team

• Building up a knowledge base after transferring to a new industry

• Strategies for driving DEI initiatives

• Getting awarded Transformative In-House Team of the Year at BT

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During his early years as an associate, Rishi Varma took up an interest in what it meant to grow a company and what he could bring to the table.

In his career, he followed that passion with roles as acting GC for Technology Holdings (India), followed by 5 years as the President and COO of Trico Marine Services, a company with $500 million in revenue. Currently, he is the GC and Corporate Secretary at Hewlett Packard Enterprise.

We discuss:

• How leading a business taught him to be a better GC

• Demonstrating value in the talent you develop

• Strategies for developing cost-saving measures

• Using virtual reality to simulate face-to-face meetings

• Managing issues of inclusion and diversity with outside counsel

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Minority- and women-led law firms fighting for equal opportunities is a continuing struggle. Raising awareness and presenting clear strategies to eliminate the discrimination are essential to creating change.

Leslie Davis, CEO of the National Association of Minority & Women-Owned Law Firms (NAMWOLF), joins us to discuss her journey into law and how she’s moving the needle for these firms.

What we talked about:

• How Leslie became a lawyer

• Leslie’s call to action to general counsel

• Initial steps to start hiring NAMWOLF firms

• Positive influence from mentors and advice
  To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to the Innovative Legal Leadership Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform.

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After a middle school field trip to Yosemite National Park, Akshay Verma was inspired to pursue environmental law. After a stint as a paralegal for Latham & Watkins, he went on to practice environmental law at Farella Braun & Martel. He then transitioned to legal consulting and business development at Axiom.

Today, he’s Director, Head of Legal Ops at Facebook where he helps their legal department “run lean, mean… while spending less green.”

What we talked about:

• Learning what it takes to run a legal department while at Axiom

• Balancing spend on outside counsel with pressures to keep costs low

• Pressuring outside counsel to diversify partnership ranks

• Getting wins early on in your legal ops career

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Early on in life, Alan Tse played chess competitively. The skills he learned in that endeavor proved invaluable in his subsequent career.

Alan began his law career at a Silicon Valley law firm followed by stints as a GC for two startups. He then had GC positions at companies like Churchill Downs, LG Electronics and Petco. Currently, he’s the Global Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary for Jones Lang Lasalle.

What we talked about:

• Parallels between playing chess and pursuing a career in law

-Challenges of being GC at a corporate real estate firm during a pandemic

• The importance of prioritizing ethics

• Finding ways to maximize the resources of the legal department

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Darren Zeidel began his career at Skadden before the siren call of working in a business environment brought him to Honeywell as the VP and GC of Business and General Aviation. After close to 10 years at Honeywell, he jumped over to Aon where he is now the EVP, GC, and Company Secretary.

Topics covered:

• Learning how to leverage intangible assets

• Compensating for vulnerabilities caused by the pandemic

• Finding value in building out your network

• Looking for attitude, agility, and curiosity while building a team

• Acting as a pathway to the solution rather than thinking you should have all the answers

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Mark Chandler learned early on that he didn’t love practicing law in a law firm. Instead, he discovered a love for being inside a company, serving consumers and building products. His first GC role was for the disk drive company Maxtor in 1988, followed by a position as the top lawyer at StrataCom. From there, he spent the next 25 years working at Cisco, 20 of those as GC.

Topics covered:

• Bringing a business-minded approach to the legal team

• 2 principles critical to an effective culture

• The impact of technology on legal departments over the years

• How being a part of the growth story of a company is key to the GC role today

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Unlike at a traditional law firm where there’s a structure to your career progression, Harvey Anderson discovered a democratization of opportunities within web companies.

He has worked as an Associate GC at Netscape, a COO at Medscape and Flywheel Communications, an SVP of Corporate Affairs and GC at Seven Networks, an SVP of Business and Legal Affairs at Mozilla, and a CLO at AVG Technologies. Currently he is GC at HP.

What we talked about:

• How persistence breaks down career barriers

• The democratization of opportunity in the web space

• Building a culture predicated on diversity without neglecting inclusion

• The need for digital platforms

• Having views on organizational aspects that go beyond legal

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Bruce Byrd started his career in private practice working his way up to partner at Dickinson Wright before making the transition to corporate law. He worked at AT&T for 20 years spending the last few as Chief Legal Officer. Currently, he is Executive Vice President and General Counsel at Palo Alto Networks.

What we talked about:

• Seeking out honest feedback in pursuit of growth

• Highlights and challenges from 20 years at AT&T

• Ensuring the legal department at Palo Alto Networks has the scale and resources to meet the ambitions of the company

• Being uniquely qualified to invest time in local communities

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Thomas Barothy has journeyed from a finance background into legal, spending some time as a CFO and Head of Risk Control before jumping into his present role as Group Legal COO at UBS. He shared with me some of his greatest surprises and insights from his first couple of years optimising the legal department and creating a legal business plan.

What we talked about:

• Transitioning from finance to legal

-War stories about dealings with in-house lawyers

• Why lawyers need to learn about and acquire managerial business skills

-Setting the vision, the mission, the strategic priorities, and more

-Where to start to be an effective legal COO

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Chris Fowler started his career as an in-house counsel for Volkswagen and Experian. He then made his way to BT, where he has been the Head of Major products, COO of the legal function, and, currently, General Counsel BT Technology and Transformation.

What we talked about:

• Getting up to speed on the operational side of running a legal department

• Automating basic tasks to free people up for big strategic initiatives

• Getting the most out of people and making sure they feel part of something that matters

• Advice for taking on the first 90 days as a new COO

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After starting his career at a law firm doing work he didn’t like, Rob Fletcher found the perfect fit as a business lawyer at GE. He spent 15 years at Johnson & Johnson working his way up to Worldwide VP of Litigation, and now, he is Chief Legal Officer at Stryker. His advice: develop your business IQ.

We discussed:

• Expanding business IQ to build knowledge and grow your personal brand

• Proving the legal department’s value to the business and using data and analytics to forecast future concerns

• Why transparency, approachability, and authenticity have become part of the general counsel role

• What qualities he looks for when building a high-powered team

• Having the confidence to offer advice outside of legal and compliance issues

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Phyllis Harris’s career has had many phases. She worked for the EPA for 20 years before moving out of the public sector — first at Walmart as SVP of Corporate Functions and Legal Operations and now as General Counsel, Chief Compliance, Ethics and Government Relations Officer at the American Red Cross. Throughout, she has advocated for environmental sustainability, diversity, inclusion, and equity.

We discussed:

• How the role of general counsel has become more proactive with a focus on showing your value as a strategic partner

• Tackling issues of environmental sustainability, diversity, inclusion, and equity

• How running the legal department like a business engenders more credibility

• Empowering teams to do extraordinary things

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Cameron Findlay aspired to have a career that began in government and then evolved to the private sector.

Remarkably, he accomplished that. In his illustrious career, he has been a Sidley Austin partner, the Deputy Secretary of the US Department of Labor, and general counsel at three Fortune 500 companies — Aon, Medtronic, and currently, he’s Senior Vice President, General Counsel, and Secretary at Archer Daniels Midland.

In this episode, we talk about:

• How the role of a general counsel has changed over the years

• His roles in government including as Deputy Secretary of Labor

• The business of running a legal department

• Attracting top legal talent

• Advice for aspiring general counsels

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In the introductory episode of Innovative Legal Leadership, you'll hear from your host, Jim Delkousis, on what you, the listener, can expect from this podcast.