Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan: Recent Episodes

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Agentic AI is transforming business faster than any previous enterprise technology, but most organizations are approaching it with outdated transformation strategies. In this solo episode of Transformational Thinkers, host Sara Sheehan shares why agentic AI is fundamentally different from ERP implementations, cloud migrations, and digital transformation initiatives, and what leaders must do to ensure success.

Drawing on more than 30 years of leading enterprise transformations, Sara explains why failed AI initiatives are rarely due to technology. Instead, they result from underinvesting in change management, having weak executive sponsorship, poor governance, and a general lack of business ownership. Backed by research from BCG, McKinsey, Deloitte, PwC, Prosci, and John Kotter's change leadership framework, she outlines five critical imperatives every CEO, CFO, CIO, and executive leadership team should adopt before investing in agentic AI.

Key Moments:

00:00 Welcome to Transformational Thinkers

00:48 Why Agentic AI Is Unlike Any Previous Digital Transformation

02:11 Technology Doesn't Fail. Change Management Does.

02:38 Imperative #1: CEOs, CFOs, and CIOs Must Own the Transformation

03:22 The Research Behind Executive Sponsorship and AI Success

05:53 Imperative #2: Why Change Management Should Receive 30% of the Budget

07:48 What Fully Funded Change Management Actually Includes

09:02 Why Sustainment Determines Long-Term AI Success

09:45 Imperative #3: Design, Build, and Operate with an Experienced Consulting Partner

10:56 Why Human AI Collaboration Requires Continuous Organizational Design

12:07 Closing the Gap Between AI Pilots and Enterprise Production

13:00 Imperative #4: Business Must Lead AI Transformation

13:54 Measuring AI Success Through Business Outcomes Instead of Technology

14:47 Why 80% of AI Value Comes from Redesigning Work

15:30 Imperative #5: Don't Restructure Before AI Is Proven

16:20 How Fear of Job Loss Creates Resistance to AI Adoption

17:42 Retraining Employees Instead of Replacing Them

18:42 Designing Higher Value Human Roles in the Agentic Enterprise

19:20 The Human Side of AI Is Your Greatest Competitive Advantage

20:10 Final Leadership Takeaways and Next Steps

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• BCG AI Radar research
• Prosci Change Management research
• McKinsey research on the Agentic Organization
• Kotter's Eight Step Change Model

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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Artificial intelligence is transforming every aspect of business, but are leaders strengthening their own judgment at the same pace that technology is advancing?

In this thought-provoking episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan sits down with Cheryl Strauss Einhorn to examine one of the defining leadership challenges of our time. As organizations accelerate AI adoption, Cheryl argues that the greatest competitive advantage will not come from technology alone. It will come from leaders who preserve critical thinking, exercise sound judgment, and make values-driven decisions.

Cheryl shares lessons from her career as an investigative journalist at Barron's, where uncovering small inconsistencies often revealed much larger organizational problems. Those experiences shaped the decision-making framework she now teaches executives around the world.

Listeners are introduced to Cheryl's AREA Method, an evidence-based decision-making system designed to counter cognitive bias by expanding knowledge before reaching conclusions. Through the story of a CEO evaluating whether to hire a chief of staff, Cheryl demonstrates how executives can challenge assumptions, gather better information, and uncover solutions that address the real problem rather than the obvious one.

Sara and Cheryl also explore why organizations must rethink their relationship with AI. Rather than allowing technology to replace human thinking, Cheryl explains why leaders should ask themselves first before asking AI. She outlines how decision-making functions much like a muscle that weakens when not exercised, and explains why executives must intentionally preserve human judgment at every stage of AI-enabled work.

Sara and Cheryl also discuss emerging enterprise AI implementations, purpose-built AI systems, organizational governance, and why testing, oversight, and executive accountability remain essential throughout AI transformation.

Whether you are leading digital transformation, implementing AI across your organization, or navigating high-stakes executive decisions, this episode offers practical guidance for building stronger judgment in an increasingly intelligent world.

Packed with actionable frameworks and executive insights, this episode is essential for CEOs, founders, executives, and transformational thinkers who want to lead AI responsibly while strengthening human decision-making. Tune in to discover why the future belongs to leaders who remain the chief deciders and use AI to enhance human thinking rather than replace it.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Cheryl Strauss Einhorn
Sara Sheehan welcomes former Barron's investigative journalist and decision strategist Cheryl Strauss Einhorn to discuss human judgment in the age of AI.

01:06 What Investigative Journalism Teaches About Bad Decisions
Cheryl explains how small inconsistencies often reveal larger organizational problems and why curiosity uncovers better answers.

03:53 Why Human Judgment Matters More Than Ever with AI
Cheryl introduces The Human Edge and explains why leaders must remain the chief deciders as AI becomes embedded in everyday work.

05:01 Is AI Weakening Our Decision-Making Muscles?
Discover why critical thinking requires continuous practice and how overreliance on AI can erode executive judgment.

06:48 The AREA Method for Better Executive Decisions
Cheryl walks through her evidence-based decision-making framework using a real CEO case study.

13:03 The Power of Cheetah Sheets and Better Problem Framing
Learn why slowing down to define the right problem leads to stronger decisions before AI enters the process.

15:54 Building Accountability into AI Decision Making
Sara and Cheryl discuss why organizations cannot delegate responsibility to AI and how executive accountability must evolve.

17:33 Values-Based AI Leadership Starts at the Top
Cheryl explains why mission, values, and human judgment must guide every AI-enabled decision.

20:34 When AI Cannot Make Your Most Important Decisions
Using the story of founder Molly, Cheryl explores why deeply personal business decisions require human values, not just data.

22:07 Three AI Priorities Every CEO Should Address Now
Cheryl outlines the most urgent leadership actions organizations should take before AI adoption accelerates further.

24:53 Purpose Built AI and the Future of Enterprise Governance
Sara shares insights into custom AI systems and why governance, testing, and oversight are essential for successful implementation.

29:40 The Most Overrated AI Mistake Organizations Make
Cheryl explains why accepting AI output without challenging it is one of the biggest leadership risks.

30:11 The Most Underrated Skill in an AI World
Discover why asking yourself first before asking AI strengthens judgment and produces better decisions.

31:46 The Question Every CEO Should Be Asking About AI
Cheryl reveals the leadership question executives need to answer as humans and intelligent machines increasingly work together.

32:12 The Leaders Who Will Thrive in the Next Decade
Critical thinking, empathy, and sound judgment emerge as the defining qualities of successful future leaders.

32:38 Final Takeaway: Remain the Chief Decider
Cheryl closes with her most important message: AI may inform decisions, but leaders must always own the consequences.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• The Human Edge: Smarter Decisions in the Age of AI by Cheryl Strauss Einhorn
• The AREA method decision-making framework

About Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:

Cheryl Strauss Einhorn helps people strengthen the judgment behind important decisions.

Cheryl’s career has always centered on understanding how people make difficult decisions. She began as an investigative journalist, where the first answer was rarely the right one. That experience became the foundation for the AREA Method, her research-backed framework for making better decisions under uncertainty.

Today, Cheryl advises leaders and organizations, teaches, speaks, and writes about decision-making in the age of AI. She’s the author of four books on decision-making, including The Human Edge: Smarter Decisions in the Age of AI, which explores how leaders can use AI to strengthen - not replace - their thinking.

Her ideas on decision-making, leadership, and human judgment have appeared in Harvard Business Review, Barron's, The New York Times, Foreign Policy, Stanford Social Innovation Review, and other leading publications. Cheryl has also shared these ideas in a TEDx talk and taught at Columbia Business School, Columbia Journalism School, and Cornell University.

Whether advising individuals or executive teams, teaching students, delivering keynotes, or researching how leaders make decisions, Cheryl is driven by one question: How can we make better decisions when the stakes are high, and the future is uncertain?

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Contact Cheryl Strauss Einhorn:

• Website: Decisive
• LinkedIn: Cheryl Strauss Einhorn
• Books: The Human Edge, Problem Solver, Investing in Financial Research

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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Artificial intelligence is changing business faster than almost any technology before it, but what if the biggest opportunity is not building smarter machines, but empowering smarter humans?

In this compelling conversation, Sara Sheehan sits down with serial entrepreneur Rob LoCascio to explore why he believes AI should amplify human potential rather than replace it. After building LivePerson into a global public company over nearly three decades, Rob launched uare.ai with a fundamentally different vision for artificial intelligence, one centered on individual ownership, authenticity, and human connection.

Rob shares the deeply personal story that inspired the company. Originally launched as Eternos to preserve the memories and voices of loved ones, the platform evolved after early users discovered their personal AI could become something far more powerful. Rather than simply preserving their legacy, individuals began using AI versions of themselves to extend their expertise, deepen self-reflection, and scale meaningful human interactions.

At the heart of uare.ai’s the Human Life Model, a proprietary framework that captures seven dimensions of an individual, including identity, worldview, personal stories, mindset, motivation, behavioral patterns, and growth. Unlike large language models that rely primarily on public information, Rob explains how this approach preserves the unique experiences and expertise that exist only within each individual.

Sara and Rob discuss why purpose-built AI represents a significant shift from today's generic AI tools. They examine how professionals, including consultants, physicians, attorneys, accountants, therapists, writers, and business leaders, can use individualized AI to expand their reach while remaining authentic to their own thinking and decision-making.

The conversation also explores the critical importance of data ownership and privacy. Rob explains why uare.ai is committed to allowing users to maintain complete control of their information without contributing their personal data to public AI training models. As trust becomes an increasingly important issue in artificial intelligence, he argues that ownership will become one of AI's greatest competitive advantages.

Sara and Rob also explore how AI may reshape creative industries, professional services, and organizational leadership by enabling individuals to preserve and share their unique expertise at scale. Rather than replacing creativity, Rob believes AI can unleash a new generation of storytellers, innovators, and entrepreneurs by putting human capabilities first.

This thought-provoking episode challenges leaders to rethink the future of artificial intelligence through the lens of purpose, ethics, and human potential. If you are a CEO, founder, executive, or business leader navigating AI transformation, this conversation offers a powerful perspective on how technology can strengthen leadership rather than diminish it.

Key Moments:

00:00 Welcome and Rob LoCascio's Entrepreneurial Journey
Sara introduces Rob LoCascio and explores his transition from building LivePerson over 28 years to launching his next AI venture.

03:14 The Personal Story That Inspired Uare.AI
Rob shares the family experience that sparked the idea of preserving human knowledge and legacy through AI.

05:16 From Legacy Preservation to Individual AI
The conversation explores how customer feedback transformed Eternos into the human-first AI platform now known as Uare.AI.

10:50 Why Generic AI Cannot Capture Human Expertise
Rob explains the Human Life Model and why individual AI differs fundamentally from large language models.

13:04 Building an AI That Thinks Like You
Rob discusses the seven dimensions of human identity and how professionals can scale their expertise through AI.

17:52 What's Missing From Today's AI Industry
Rob shares why he believes the future belongs to human-centered AI rather than generic synthetic agents.

20:50 AI's Impact on Creativity and Storytelling
The discussion explores how writers and creators can use AI to expand their work instead of being replaced by it.

23:44 Building Companies Through Times of Disruption
Rob reflects on fundraising, entrepreneurship, and navigating multiple economic crises as a founder.

26:09 Knowing When to Pivot Without Losing Your Mission
Rob shares practical leadership lessons for making strategic pivots while keeping teams aligned.

29:37 Why Data Ownership Will Define the Future of AI
The conversation focuses on trust, privacy, and why individuals should retain ownership of their AI and personal data.

31:51 Launching Uare.AI and Scaling With Customers
Rob discusses the company's launch strategy, early customers, and long-term vision for growth.

33:51 Restoring Trust in Technology
Rob reflects on how the technology industry has changed and why rebuilding trust must become a leadership priority.

37:40 Why Human Potential Is AI's Greatest Opportunity
Rob explains why he believes AI should help people become more fully themselves rather than replace them.

39:47 The Most Important AI Question Every CEO Should Ask
Sara asks what leaders should consider before adopting AI, and Rob shares a simple but powerful framework.

42:04 Leadership Lessons From a Lifetime of Building Companies
Rob reflects on the mentors who shaped him and why making difficult decisions is essential for transformational leadership.

43:56 The One Leadership Principle Every CEO Should Remember
Rob closes the conversation with his advice on embracing difficult decisions to become a stronger leader.

About Rob LoCascio:

Rob became Founder/CEO of a startup in 2023 called Eternos.life, which became Uare.ai and is providing a platform for prosumers and consumers to create their own individual AIs for both work and personal use. He also started a company called KID (Keep It Dreaming), which launched, during the holidays in 2025, a safe AI device that enables children to be their best creators.

Previously, Rob was the Founder of LivePerson, Inc. (LPSN: NASDAQ ), and was its Chief Executive Officer from 1995 to 2023. He was the guiding force behind the company’s vision of creating meaningful connections between brands and consumers and was the original inventor of web chat.

Rob’s interests extend beyond his business and reflect his close ties to New York City. He is a founding member of Equal AI and NYC Entrepreneurs Council of the Partnership for New York City. In 2001, he started the Dream Big Foundation with its first program FeedingNYC, which gives families in need a Thanksgiving dinner. To date, FeedingNYC has donated more than 40,000 meals. Its second program, the Dream Big Entrepreneurship Initiative, launched in 2014 to fund, mentor, coach, and empower local entrepreneurs in underserved communities.

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Contact Rob LoCascio:

• Website: UAre.ai
• LinkedIn: RLocascio

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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What separates organizations that successfully leverage artificial intelligence from those that struggle to realize value?

According to Andrew Brooks, the answer lies in moving beyond generic AI assistants and focusing on purpose-built AI solutions tailored to how a business operates. In this insightful conversation, Andrew shares lessons learned from decades of entrepreneurship building and scaling technology companies, including SMB Live, SmartThings, and now Contextual.

Andrew explains why entrepreneurs must develop deep conviction when pursuing new opportunities and how successful founders identify market gaps before the broader market can fully define them. He reflects on the entrepreneurial mindset required to build enduring businesses and the importance of maintaining relentless forward progress, even during periods of uncertainty.

Sara and Andrew dive deeply into the rapidly evolving AI landscape. Andrew introduces the philosophy behind "own your AI," arguing that AI should become a core strategic asset rather than a rented feature inside a software platform. He explains why AI is emerging as a new business layer alongside people, process, and technology, and how organizations can create defensible competitive advantages through customized AI solutions.

Andrew also shares fascinating insights from his experience completing seven marathons on seven continents in seven days. He discusses how endurance athletics reinforced a leadership principle that continues to guide his entrepreneurial journey: relentless forward progress.

Sara and Andrew emphasize that the pace of AI innovation will not slow down. Leaders who wait for stability before acting risk being overtaken by faster-moving competitors. Instead, organizations should begin experimenting, learning, and building internal capabilities today.

This episode is essential listening for CEOs, founders, executives, private equity leaders, and transformational thinkers seeking to leverage AI for sustainable competitive advantage and long-term business growth.

Join Sara and Andrew for a compelling conversation about leadership, entrepreneurship, innovation, AI transformation, and the future of work.

Key Moments:

00:02:15 | From Chemistry to Technology Entrepreneurship
Andrew Brooks shares his journey from studying chemistry at Princeton to launching and scaling multiple successful technology companies.

00:05:40 | The Entrepreneurial Drive Behind Serial Success
Andrew discusses why he continued building companies after the success of SmartThings and what fuels his passion for innovation.

00:06:46 | Recognizing Market Gaps Before Everyone Else
Learn how entrepreneurs develop conviction, identify emerging opportunities, and build businesses around underserved markets.

00:09:06 | Why CEOs Need to "Own Their AI"
Andrew explains why organizations should view AI as a strategic asset rather than simply another software feature.

00:11:52 | Moving Beyond AI Automation to Business Transformation
The conversation explores how AI can create entirely new revenue streams and unlock strategic growth opportunities.

00:13:33 | Inside Solution AI and AI Building AI
Andrew introduces Contextual's Solution AI approach and explains how AI can accelerate the development of production-ready business solutions.

00:18:02 | The Real Barriers to Enterprise AI Adoption
Discover the biggest challenges organizations face when implementing AI, from data complexity to change management.

00:22:23 | The Rise of the AI Transformation Partner
Andrew discusses the evolving role of consultants and advisors in helping organizations navigate AI-driven transformation.

00:26:09 | What Separates AI Ready CEOs from Everyone Else
The discussion examines leadership mindsets that accelerate AI adoption and the risks of viewing AI only as a cost-cutting tool.

00:27:44 | Human Adaptation in the Age of Rapid AI Change
Andrew explains how organizations can accelerate adoption by embedding AI into familiar workflows and systems.

00:32:18 | Which Jobs Are Most Vulnerable to AI?
A candid discussion on automation, customer service, sales, creative work, and how AI will reshape the workforce.

00:36:34 | Endurance Athletics, Leadership, and Relentless Forward Progress
Andrew shares lessons from completing seven marathons on seven continents in seven days and how endurance sports shaped his leadership philosophy.

00:40:36 | Knowing When to Stay the Course as a Founder
Drawing from the SmartThings journey, Andrew explains how leaders can distinguish conviction from denial when facing competitive threats.

00:44:31 | What Every CEO Must Do Differently About AI Now
Andrew closes with practical advice for executives on navigating the accelerating pace of AI innovation and leveraging talent already inside their organizations.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Contextual
• SmartThings
• The Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley
• Relentless Forward Progress: A Guide to Running Ultramarathons by Bryon Powell

About Andrew Brooks:

Andrew Brooks is a serial entrepreneur, technology founder, author, and CEO of Contextual. He has founded and scaled multiple innovative companies, including SmartThings, which was acquired by Samsung, and SMBLive, which was acquired by ReachLocal. He has also helped create and grow ventures, including Mural and Mindstamp.

A Princeton University chemistry graduate, Andrew is passionate about building businesses that leverage emerging technologies to solve complex challenges. Outside of work, he is an accomplished ultra-endurance athlete, having completed seven marathons on seven continents in seven days, multiple Ironman races, and 100-mile ultramarathons.

Andrew is also a proud father and the father of an author, bringing the same spirit of curiosity, resilience, and relentless forward progress to both his professional and personal life.

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Contact Andrew Brooks:

• Website: Contextual.io
• LinkedIn: AndrewCarrollBrooks

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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What does it take to build category-defining companies, lead through massive technological change, and still maintain perspective on what matters most?

In this inspiring episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan sits down with Maria Colacurcio, CEO of Syndio and co-founder of Smartsheet, to discuss the intersection of leadership, AI, pay equity, and personal growth. Maria shares how her experiences as an entrepreneur, executive, athlete, wife, and mother have shaped her belief that leaders must develop change agility to succeed in today's rapidly evolving business environment.

Maria reflects on her experience launching Smartsheet and the lessons learned from building a company amid economic uncertainty, product pivots, and the challenges of scaling a startup from an idea to a public company. She explains why some of the hardest moments often become the most meaningful chapters in an entrepreneur’s journey and why learning to do hard things remains one of the most valuable leadership skills.

They discuss Syndio and its mission to transform compensation management. Maria discusses the company’s evolution from a pay equity platform to a comprehensive pay decision-intelligence solution. She explains how increasing pay-transparency regulations, global compliance requirements, and advancements in artificial intelligence have created an opportunity to rethink how organizations make compensation decisions.

Sara and Maria also explore what it takes to create entirely new market categories, build momentum around innovation, and recognize when organizations need to pause, validate strategy, and prepare for their next stage of growth. Maria shares why leadership teams must evolve alongside the business and how bringing in specialized expertise can accelerate transformation when the timing is right.

Beyond business, Maria offers a fascinating look into her success as a competitive HYROX athlete. She explains how training for world-class competition has strengthened her resilience, sharpened her mindset, and reinforced lessons that apply directly to entrepreneurship and leadership. Her perspective on pushing beyond perceived limitations provides powerful takeaways for anyone pursuing ambitious goals.

Whether you are leading organizational change, navigating AI adoption, building a high-growth company, or striving to become a stronger or better leader, this episode delivers practical insights and inspiration for embracing transformation with confidence.

Tune in to discover how change agility, responsible AI, and intentional leadership can help organizations create fairer workplaces and achieve extraordinary outcomes.

Key Moments:

00:00:01 | Meet Maria Colacurcio
Sara introduces Maria Colacurcio, CEO of Syndio, co-founder of Smartsheet, HYROX World Champion, and mother of seven.

00:00:25 | Beyond the LinkedIn Profile
Maria shares why family, relationships, and life experiences are just as important as professional accomplishments in defining who we are.

00:01:55 | Recognition Beyond Gender
Maria discusses being named one of Goldman Sachs' 100 Most Exceptional Entrepreneurs and why recognition without gender qualifiers matters.

00:04:20 | Lessons from Building Smartsheet
Maria reflects on co-founding Smartsheet, navigating startup challenges, and learning that hard experiences often become the most treasured memories.

00:08:16 | Why Doing Hard Things Matters
The conversation explores resilience, mindset, and how overcoming difficult challenges builds leadership capability.

00:09:04 | The Evolution of Syndio's Mission
Maria explains how Syndio expanded from pay equity into AI-powered compensation decision intelligence.

00:13:56 | Revolutionizing Compensation Decisions
How AI, transparency, and data are helping organizations make fairer, smarter, and more strategic pay decisions.

00:15:07 | Becoming a First-Time CEO
Maria shares the personal and family support system that gave her the confidence to step into the CEO role.

00:17:52 | The Power of Change Agility
Why leaders must continually evaluate their ability to evolve alongside their organizations.

00:18:32 | Building an Entirely New Category
Maria reveals what it takes to create momentum, define a new market category, and know when the timing is right to scale.

00:22:21 | Earning Trust with Sensitive Data
How Syndio manages compensation data for global enterprises while meeting rigorous AI governance and compliance standards.

00:26:11 | When AI Became the Future of Syndio
The moment Maria realized AI was not simply a feature but a foundational shift for the company.

00:31:25 | Scaling Trust Across 10 Million Employees
How Syndio's platform helps organizations govern pay decisions across 100 countries while maintaining transparency and accountability.

00:34:45 | Building the Next Leadership Team
Maria discusses Syndio's leadership expansion and why deep functional expertise became critical for the company's next growth phase.

00:37:37 | HYROX Championships, Resilience, and Leadership
Maria explains how elite athletic competition strengthens mental toughness, resilience, and performance as a CEO.

00:43:06 | The Future of Decision Intelligence for Pay
Maria shares her vision for compensation transparency, performance alignment, and the future of workplace equity over the next five years.

00:46:05 | Final Thoughts and Looking Ahead
Sara reflects on Syndio's momentum and the transformative impact Maria's work could have on the future of work.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• “Do Hard Things” by Steve Magness
• Smartsheet
• EU Pay Transparency Directive
• HYROX

About Maria Colacurcio:

Maria Colacurcio is reshaping how enterprises govern their largest and most consequential investment: how they pay their people. As CEO of Syndio, she leads the company that defined the market for pay equity software and is now pioneering Decision Intelligence for Pay. Under her leadership, Syndio partners with global brands including Walmart, Microsoft, and Salesforce to make every pay decision compliant, optimized, and aligned with business strategy.

Maria previously co-founded Smartsheet, which went public in 2018. She has built her career at the intersection of technology, policy, and purpose-driven leadership, earning recognition as one of the 100 most exceptional entrepreneurs by Goldman Sachs Builders + Innovators Summit.

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Contact Maria Colacurcio:

• Website: Syndio
• LinkedIn: MColacurcio

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan welcomes Jeff Revilla, founder of the Infinite-Seat Theater concept and longtime podcast creator, to discuss how live podcasting is creating a new path forward for independent creators.

Jeff explains that traditional podcast monetization through advertising often fails independent podcasters because only a small percentage of shows reach the download thresholds required for ad revenue. Instead of chasing CPM-based advertising models, Jeff encourages creators to focus on building real-world audience experiences that generate revenue immediately through ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorships, and live engagement.

Inspired by the “Moneyball” philosophy, Jeff shares how he bootstrapped a podcast theater model designed specifically for small and mid-level podcasters. His concept transforms affordable local venues into intimate podcast performance spaces that can simultaneously reach in-person audiences and unlimited virtual attendees through hybrid live-streaming.

Sara and Jeff explore how Infinite-Seat Theaters work, including how creators can start with small audiences and still create financially sustainable events. Jeff explains that even a live audience of 10 to 20 people can dramatically outperform traditional podcast downloads while helping creators build audience loyalty and long-term community engagement.

Throughout the episode, Jeff shares examples of creators leveraging live podcasting across multiple genres, including sports, paranormal storytelling, trivia, politics, motherhood content, parenting, and educational programming. Sara highlights how the model creates credibility for creators by elevating podcasts from home studio productions into live public experiences.

Jeff also breaks down the layered monetization strategies available to podcasters through live events, including:

• Ticket sales • VIP experiences • Merchandise sales • Sponsorship placements • BYOB ticket upgrades • Audience participation experiences • Hybrid virtual attendance

Sara and Jeff discuss the growing consumer demand for authentic in-person experiences in response to increasingly digital and AI-driven environments. Jeff explains why he believes small live podcast venues will become a critical stepping stone for creators seeking to grow into larger conferences, theaters, and touring opportunities.

The conversation also explores entrepreneurship and leadership transformation. Jeff candidly shares the emotional highs and lows of building a new business model, the importance of maintaining resilience through uncertainty, and why bootstrapping and resourcefulness helped him bring his vision to life.

As the episode closes, Jeff shares his long-term vision for a nationwide network of podcast theaters that allow creators to tour cities the same way comedians and musicians do today. He encourages creators to embrace their unique voices, stop waiting for permission, and build meaningful experiences that create lasting impact for their audiences.

This episode offers powerful insights for creators, entrepreneurs, CEOs, marketers, and transformational thinkers looking to understand the future of podcasting, creator monetization, audience engagement, and experiential business models.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Live Podcasting and Infinite-Seat Theaters
Sara Sheehan introduces entrepreneur and podcast innovator Jeff Revilla to discuss how live podcasting is transforming creator monetization and audience engagement.

01:15 Why Traditional Podcast Monetization Fails Most Creators
Jeff explains why CPM advertising models leave most podcasters unable to generate meaningful revenue and why creators need new monetization strategies.

03:10 The Birth of the Infinite-Seat Theater Concept
Jeff shares how he developed a scalable live podcasting model that works in small towns, coffee shops, bars, and flexible event spaces.

05:13 How Infinite-Seat Theaters Change Podcast Economics
Jeff explains how small podcast theaters can scale beyond physical capacity through hybrid streaming and virtual audiences.

07:27 Why Even Small Live Audiences Create Big Value
Sara and Jeff discuss how podcasters can generate revenue and build community even with modest in-person and virtual attendance.

09:08 Hybrid Podcasting and Virtual Audience Engagement
Jeff breaks down how live podcast stages become interactive portals connecting hosts, guests, virtual attendees, and in-person audiences.

10:26 Early Reactions to the Infinite-Seat Theater Model
Jeff reflects on how podcasters and creators responded when they first encountered the live podcast theater concept.

11:52 The Different Types of Podcasts Thriving in Live Events
From paranormal storytelling to sports podcasts and author interviews, Jeff explains the wide range of creators succeeding with live podcasting.

13:39 How Live Podcasting Deepens Audience Relationships
Jeff shares how immersive live podcast experiences create powerful emotional connections between creators and their audiences.

15:18 Why Live Podcasting Elevates Creator Credibility
Sara and Jeff discuss how performing on a live stage transforms how audiences, family members, and sponsors perceive podcasters.

17:04 Growing a Podcast Theater Through Community and Meetups
Jeff explains how networking events, creator meetups, and local community building are helping expand the business organically.

22:28 Podcast Monetization Strategies Beyond Advertising
Jeff reveals how creators can monetize immediately through ticket sales, VIP experiences, merchandise, sponsorships, and live engagement.

28:09 Why In-Person Experiences Are Making a Comeback
Jeff discusses major trends driving renewed interest in live experiences and why small live podcast venues represent the future of creator engagement.

34:10 Entrepreneurship, Leadership, and Emotional Resilience
Jeff candidly shares the emotional highs and lows of building a business, bootstrapping a vision, and navigating entrepreneurial uncertainty.

38:10 The Future of Podcast Theater Networks and Creator Touring
Jeff outlines his long-term vision for a nationwide network of podcast theaters that allows creators to tour cities like musicians and comedians.

40:53 Interactive Audience Engagement and the Future of Live Podcasting
Jeff shares how polls, trivia, second-screen experiences, and real-time audience participation could redefine live podcast entertainment.

43:17 The Power of Authenticity and Finding Your Voice
Jeff encourages creators to embrace their unique voice, overcome fear, and pursue projects they are deeply passionate about.

About Jeff Revilla:

Jeff Revilla is an entrepreneur, podcast creator, and founder of the Infinite-Seat Theater concept. He is the leading voice in live podcasting, helping creators turn their shows into profitable, audience-driven stage experiences from day one. Through his podcast theater model, Jeff is pioneering a new framework for scalable live podcasting and creator-led entertainment experiences.

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Contact Jeff Revilla:

• Website: JeffRevilla.com
• Website: Poduty.com
• LinkedIn: JeffRevilla

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan interviews Alan McLaren, a leadership strategist specializing in how executive presence and behavioral signals shape organizational outcomes. Alan introduces the concept of Leadership Signal Architecture, a framework designed to help leaders understand how others experience their leadership, and how that experience directly impacts trust and business scalability.

At the core of the conversation is a critical insight: trust is the foundation of all business performance. Even with a strong strategy, advanced technology, and talented teams, organizations struggle when leaders send inconsistent signals. Subtle misalignments in signal architecture create hesitation and lead to costly inefficiencies, including delayed decisions and “meetings after the meeting.”

Alan outlines five key components that define a leader’s signal:

• Voice and communication consistency
• Presence, especially under pressure
• Values demonstrated through action
• Perspective and decision framing
• Leadership style and alignment approach

He emphasizes the “invisible variable” in every interaction: how others feel in a leader’s presence. This emotional and subconscious response determines whether teams align, resist, disengage, or leave entirely.

Sara and Alan dive into real-world leadership scenarios, including high-pressure boardrooms, investor pitches, and organizational change initiatives. Alan shares a personal story about losing composure under pressure and how reframing emotional triggers transformed his leadership effectiveness. This highlights a key theme: self-awareness is the gateway to leadership transformation.

Alan also connects leadership signals and the signal architecture to measurable business outcomes. When leaders improve alignment and consistency, organizations experience:

• Faster and more effective decision-making
• Reduced friction and fewer redundant meetings
• Increased clarity and accountability
• Stronger culture and employee engagement

Looking ahead, Alan stresses that the future of leadership will demand even greater emotional intelligence. As AI and automation reshape business, human connection, authenticity, and mastering the signal architecture will become the defining competitive advantage.

Key Moments:

[00:00:43] Introduction to Leadership Signal Architecture
Sara Sheehan welcomes Alan McLaren and introduces the concept of leadership signals as a critical driver of business performance.

[00:01:02] Why Trust Outweighs Strategy in Leadership
Alan explains how trust underpins all outcomes and why inconsistent leadership signals erode performance, regardless of strategy or talent.

[00:02:04] The Cost of Incongruence in Leadership Behavior
Real-world examples of leaders saying one thing and doing another, and how this shuts down teams, limits innovation, and negatively impacts business performance.

[00:03:31] Warning Signs of Organizational Struggle
Discussion on “meetings after the meeting,” decision delays, and the measurable financial cost of poor decision-making.

[00:05:08] Signals of High-Performing, Aligned Organizations
What accelerating companies do differently - including clarity, alignment, and leadership accountability.

[00:07:07] The Five Core Components of Leadership Signals
Breakdown of voice, presence, values, perspective, and leadership style, and how they shape perception in seconds.

[00:10:12] Unintentional Signals That Sabotage Performance
Exploration of subconscious signals and the four key questions teams ask when evaluating a leader.

[00:13:03] Business Impact of Strong Leadership Signals
How improved leadership signals and mastering the signal architecture lead to faster decisions, reduced friction, and stronger business outcomes.

[00:15:08] Managing Pressure and Reframing Emotional Triggers
Alan shares a personal story about reacting under pressure and how reframing transformed his leadership effectiveness.

[00:21:46] Good Leaders vs Transformational Leaders
The defining traits of transformational leaders are a focus on consistency, clarity, and trust-building.

[00:30:57] Identifying Competitive Edge in Leadership Teams
What Alan looks for in boardrooms includes psychological safety, engagement, and clarity of direction.

[00:43:00] The Future of Leadership in an AI-Driven World
How leadership must evolve, emphasizing emotional intelligence, adaptability, and human connection as competitive advantages.

About Alan McLaren:

Alan McLaren is a former International Chair of YPO GOLD, with more than 37,000 leaders in 140 countries. His YPO leadership experience informs STRATA’s vantage point on governance, leadership expectations, and scale.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• Leadership Signal Diagnostic Tool

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Contact Alan McLaren:

• Website: StrataOriginals.com
• LinkedIn: AlanMcLaren
• Podcast: UNMASKED: The CEO Files

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan and guest Victoria Pelletier discuss what it takes to lead with strength, vulnerability, and clarity in today’s evolving business landscape.

Victoria addresses a critical tension in modern organizations: the balance between people, process, and data. While data integrity is essential, she emphasizes that organizations cannot afford to wait for perfect systems before moving forward with innovation. Leaders must act strategically while continuing to refine their data foundations.

Victoria reflects on what she has had to unlearn over time, including the outdated belief that leaders must suppress vulnerability. Instead, she highlights the importance of showing up authentically, while continuing to work on personal growth areas such as patience and self-awareness. She and Sara also talk about decision-making under pressure, and Victoria shares a defining moment during a series of acquisitions. Faced with conflicting data and intuition, she chose to trust her instincts about retaining key talent. That decision preserved significant client relationships, reinforcing the importance of balancing analytics with human insight. Over time, Victoria developed deeper relationships with the team, which is critical for high-stakes account development efforts.

In discussing the human side of leadership, they dive into how personal experiences shape executive performance. Victoria candidly shares challenges related to family, mental health, and identity, underscoring that resilience is not just a professional competency but a deeply personal journey. Victoria describes confidence versus ego as a fine line that requires continuous self-awareness and humility. Leaders must learn to communicate their value clearly while remaining grounded and open to growth.

A critical leadership mistake she highlights is the tendency to make exceptions for high performers who violate company values. These exceptions, while often rationalized, can erode trust and damage organizational culture over time. Victoria also outlines what signals readiness for greater responsibility: high performance, a willingness to stretch beyond comfort zones, and the ability to embrace failure as part of growth. She emphasizes that leaders must actively develop their people, not just drive results.

Victoria shares her mindset of being “unstoppable” and maintaining a no-excuses approach to achieving goals. She reinforces that growth happens in discomfort and that leaders must be willing to step into uncertainty.

As the conversation closes, Victoria and Sara reflect on legacy and long-term success. They challenge the traditional focus on titles and financial outcomes, emphasizing instead the importance of impact, relationships, and the kind of person a leader becomes. True success is measured by the lives influenced and the culture created, not just the results delivered.

Key Moments:

00:00:00 – The Role of People, Data, and AI in Business Transformation
Victoria discusses the balance between people, process, and data, and why leaders cannot wait for perfect data before leveraging AI effectively.

00:01:18 – What Leaders Must Unlearn to Evolve
A candid reflection on unlearning outdated leadership behaviors, including suppressing vulnerability and the ongoing challenge of developing patience.

00:02:44 – High-Stakes Decision Making: Logic vs Intuition
Victoria shares a pivotal acquisition story where trusting her instincts over pure data preserved long-term business value.

00:05:21 – The Personal Weight Leaders Carry
An honest look at how personal challenges, including family and mental health, shape resilience and leadership perspective.

00:06:25 – Emotional Intelligence Under Pressure
Victoria explains how emotions surface first under stress and how she has learned to manage her reactions professionally.

00:07:32 – The Cost of Delayed Decisions
A deeply personal story about delaying a major life decision and the lessons it taught about confidence, timing, and self-trust.

00:09:43 – Confidence vs Ego in Executive Leadership
Exploring the fine line between self-assurance and ego, and the importance of feedback and humility in leadership growth.

00:12:14 – The Hidden Leadership Mistake That Erodes Culture
Why making exceptions for high performers can damage trust and undermine organizational values.

00:14:38 – Identifying High-Potential Talent
What signals indicate someone is ready for greater responsibility, including their performance, curiosity, and resilience.

00:16:57 – Building Courage and Operating in Discomfort
Victoria shares her “unstoppable” mindset and why growth happens outside of comfort zones.

00:19:35 – The Impact of Failure on Leadership Identity
A discussion on how public failure can shape or hinder leaders and the importance of resilience.

00:23:31 – Rethinking Success, Legacy, and What Truly Matters
Victoria challenges traditional definitions of success, emphasizing people, relationships, and long-term impact over titles and financial outcomes.

About Victoria Pelletier:

Victoria Pelletier is a transformational C-suite executive, board director, keynote speaker, and author known for driving business growth, leadership excellence, and cultural transformation across global organizations. With more than two decades of senior leadership experience, she has held executive roles in complex, high-growth environments, where she has led large-scale transformations and delivered measurable business results.

A passionate advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion, Victoria is widely recognized for her bold, no-excuses leadership style and her commitment to helping individuals and organizations reach their full potential. Through her speaking, writing, and advisory work, she empowers leaders to elevate performance, embrace resilience, and lead with authenticity in today’s rapidly evolving business landscape.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Leadership Transition Guide” by Victoria Pelletier
• YouTube: "Embracing Healthy Resilience” by Victoria Pelletier

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Contact Victoria Pelletier:

• Website: Victoria-Pelletier.com
• Victoria Pelletier’s books
• Victoria Pelletier on LinkedIn
• Victoria Pelletier on YouTube: VictoriaPelletierUnstoppable

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan interviews Nick Jain, CEO of Eagle Rock CFO, an analytically driven firm leveraging AI to transform financial operations, HR functions, and strategic decision-making. Nick is a seasoned CEO known for his expertise in scaling businesses. Eagle Rock CFO is using AI as a central offering to drive client organizational growth.

Nick begins by revealing one of the earliest indicators of business decline: a lack of urgency and productivity within teams, resulting in stagnation. When employees are no longer fully engaged, it often signals deeper operational or market misalignment. He emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between internal execution issues and external market shifts, noting that leaders must act decisively before problems appear in financial metrics, emphasizing the need to make positive ROI decisions daily.

At the core of Nick’s scaling philosophy is a simple but powerful principle: every decision must generate positive incremental return on investment. Financial performance is his most important indicator of business health.

Sara and Nick discuss leadership under pressure. Nick shares his personal leadership challenges, particularly the intricacies of stepping into organizations with established leadership cultures and making unpopular decisions for long-term value creation. He underscores that effective CEOs must prioritize outcomes over approval, especially during periods of transformation.

A central theme of the episode is Nick’s approach to risk. Rather than relying on intuition, he applies a quantified, probability-based framework to evaluate decisions. Leaders must assess expected value while also considering path dependency, ensuring that no single decision eliminates their ability to continue operating and competing.

Sara and Nick then explore the transformative power of AI in business. Through Eagle Rock CFO’s proprietary platform, Nick demonstrates how AI-based systems can analyze vast datasets, identify profit opportunities, and surface risks in real time. What traditionally required dozens of hours of manual analysis can now be completed in seconds, delivering actionable insights to businesses across industries. The platform identifies overlooked opportunities such as pricing strategies, operational inefficiencies, and even risk exposures like missing insurance coverage. By reviewing diverse data sources, the system continuously generates recommendations designed to improve profitability and resilience.

Nick also introduces a paradigm shift in how AI should be used. Rather than asking narrow, task-based questions, leaders should adopt open-ended prompts such as “How do we make this business better?” This approach allows AI to think more holistically, uncovering insights that traditional workflows might miss.

Nick argues that tomorrow’s leaders must combine analytical rigor with technological fluency, as AI becomes central to decision-making and organizational design. He highlights the growing accessibility of advanced intelligence, enabling even small businesses to leverage capabilities once reserved for large enterprises.

The conversation takes a deeper turn as Nick reflects on the societal implications of AI. While it drives efficiency and growth, it also raises profound questions about meaning, work, and human connection. As AI impacts positions, individuals, and certain forms of interaction, leaders must grapple with the broader impact AI has on the workforce and communities. Additionally, Nick highlights there has been a huge reduction in cost to use AI in all use cases, workflows, and applications for businesses of all sizes, paving the way for a significant increase in AI use, adoption, and impacts to the future of work.

The episode concludes with a forward-looking perspective on leadership, growth, and the importance of adapting to an AI-driven world while maintaining a focus on human value and purpose.

Key Moments:

00:00:01 Early Warning Signs of Business Stagnation

• Nick Jain reveals the earliest behavioral indicators that a company is about to stall and why leaders must act before financial metrics decline.

00:00:33 Internal vs External Causes of Business Decline

• Learn how to diagnose whether performance issues stem from internal execution or external market shifts and the strategic decisions each requires.

00:01:31 The Power of Positive Incremental ROI

• Discover Nick’s core scaling principle: making daily decisions that generate positive return on investment and compound long-term business growth.

00:02:32 Leading Through Unpopular Decisions

• Why effective CEOs must prioritize long-term value over being liked and how to navigate leadership resistance during transformation.

00:05:37 Quantifying Risk and Making Smarter Bets

• A data-driven framework for evaluating risk, expected value, and decision-making that keeps businesses in the game.

00:06:50 The Leadership Habit Most CEOs Overlook

• How continuous learning, reading, and intellectual curiosity create a long-term competitive advantage for executives.

00:07:58 How AI is Replacing Traditional CFO Work

• Explore how AI-powered platforms deliver real-time financial insights, automate analysis, and scale decision-making across organizations

00:09:45 Turning Data Into Profit and Risk Mitigation

• Real-world examples of how AI uncovers hidden revenue opportunities and identifies critical risks most leaders overlook.

00:27:06 Rethinking AI Impact: From Task Execution to Strategic Thinking

• Asking AI better, more open-ended questions unlocks deeper insights and transforms business performance.

00:23:00 The Future of Back Office Functions with AI

• How AI is reshaping finance, HR, and operations by rebuilding processes from the ground up rather than replicating human workflows.

00:30:10 Scaling Lessons: Data Visibility and Decision Making

• Key patterns from scaling multiple companies, including the importance of data observability and eliminating opinion-based decisions.

00:39:16 The Hidden Risk of AI: Meaning, Work, and the Future of Humanity

• A thought-provoking discussion on how AI impacts purpose, human connection, and the future role of work in society.

About Nick Jain:

Nick Jain is the CEO of Eagle Rock CFO, a tech-enabled fractional CFO firm that leverages autonomous AI to help businesses improve profitability, optimize operations, and scale intelligently. With experience scaling companies across multiple industries, Nick brings a highly analytical approach to leadership, risk management, and decision-making.

Nick has an MBA from Harvard Business School and investment experience with Bain Capital private equity and Greenlight public equities.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• Claude Code
• “Moby Dick” by Herman Melville
• “Paradise Lost” by John Milton

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Contact Nick Jain | Eagle Rock CFO

• Website: EaglerRockCFO.com
• Nick Jain on LinkedIn

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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In this thought-provoking episode, Sara Sheehan delivers a strategic and human-centered perspective on artificial intelligence and its impact on business, leadership, and society. She emphasizes that AI is not autonomous. It reflects the priorities and decisions of those who design and deploy it.

The Transformation of Work Requires Human Leadership

AI is reshaping how work is structured across industries. However, the true challenge is not automation. It is ensuring that humans remain in control of how work is defined and valued.

Sara highlights that leading organizations will:

• Design roles where AI enhances human capability
• Maintain human authority in ethical and complex decision-making
• Prioritize long-term value creation through people development

As routine tasks become automated, human value shifts toward leadership, creativity, trust building, and ethical governance.

Education Must Evolve to Develop Leaders

To support this shift, education systems must prioritize:

• Critical thinking and adaptability
• Leadership and communication skills
• Ethical reasoning and responsible AI use

Sara reinforces that developing capable, self-aware leaders is essential for navigating an AI-integrated future.

Economic Systems Require Active Human Stewardship

AI will unlock unprecedented productivity, but economic outcomes will depend on how leaders design systems around it.

Key leadership responsibilities include:

• Building sustainable business models
• Encouraging entrepreneurship and innovation
• Strengthening the link between business success and community well-being

Healthy economies are not automatic. They are intentionally created and sustained by leaders.

Preserving Human Agency in an AI-Driven World

One of the greatest risks is over-reliance on AI systems. Sara stresses that humans must retain accountability and decision-making authority.

Organizations must:

• Ensure transparency in AI systems
• Develop leaders who can interpret and challenge AI outputs
• Reinforce cultures that value human judgment

Agency is not preserved by default. It requires disciplined leadership and continuous awareness.

Redefining Meaning and Purpose Beyond Work

As AI reshapes traditional career structures, individuals must actively define meaning and purpose.

Sara explores how fulfillment will increasingly come from:

• Relationships and community engagement
• Creative and intellectual pursuits
• Personal values and deeper philosophical foundations

Organizations that support the whole person will build stronger, more engaged teams.

Adapting to Rapid Change with Resilience

The pace of change is accelerating, placing new demands on individuals and organizations.

To thrive, leaders must focus on:

• Continuous learning and reinvention
• Mental and physical well-being
• Strong community connections and support systems

Resilience is built through both individual capability and collective strength.

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Key Moments

00:00:03 Introduction to AI Leadership and Human Responsibility
Sara Sheehan introduces the core theme of leading in an AI-driven world, outlining why human decision-making, values, and leadership will define the future of business transformation.

00:02:13 The Five Biggest Concerns in an AI-Driven World
An overview of the key challenges facing humanity, including workforce disruption, economic shifts, and the need for intentional leadership in AI integration.

00:02:50 AI and the Transformation of Work
Explore how artificial intelligence is reshaping jobs and why leaders must design roles that elevate human contribution rather than replace it.

00:03:40 The Evolving Role of Human Skills in Business
Why leadership, creativity, trust building, and ethical governance are becoming the most valuable skills in an AI-powered economy.

00:04:33 Rethinking Education for the Future of Work
How education systems must evolve to develop adaptable, self-aware leaders with critical thinking and AI integration skills.

00:05:30 Supporting Workforce Performance and Well Being
The importance of executive coaching, leadership development, and wellness programs in sustaining performance during rapid technological change.

00:06:00 Designing Economic Systems in the Age of AI
Why economic growth, entrepreneurship, and community stability depend on human stewardship and intentional system design.

00:06:56 The Role of Business Leaders in AI Integration
How CEOs and executives must take responsibility for aligning AI adoption with long-term talent development and organizational strength.

00:08:00 Preserving Human Agency and Decision Making
A critical look at maintaining human oversight, accountability, and transparency in AI-driven environments.

00:09:25 Leadership, Critical Thinking, and AI Governance
Why leaders must challenge AI outputs, reinforce organizational values, and build cultures that prioritize human judgment.

00:10:30 Redefining Meaning and Purpose Beyond Work
How individuals and organizations must cultivate purpose through community, relationships, and values in a shifting work landscape.

00:12:07 Building Resilience and Adapting to Rapid Change
Strategies for continuous learning, mental wellness, and community connection to thrive in an accelerating AI-driven world.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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What if the key to unlocking innovation and leadership performance is as simple as movement?

In this compelling episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, Sara welcomes Joel Heath, entrepreneur, innovator, and CEO of FluidStance, a company focused on creating products that bring movement into the workplace.

Joel shares his transformative journey from concept to company, illustrating how his innovative leadership is reshaping our understanding of workplace culture and education. As we explore the challenges many face in static environments, Joel candidly reflects on his experiences as a father witnessing his son’s transition from a playful preschool to a rigid kindergarten. This pivotal moment ignited his passion for creating products that promote movement and enhance creativity. Joel set out to design solutions that restore dynamic movement in modern workspaces. The result was FluidStance, a brand built on the belief that physical movement fuels cognitive performance, emotional engagement, and innovative thinking.

He highlights the critical role of innovation in fostering environments that empower employees, emphasizing how physical activity can lead to greater productivity and a thriving workplace culture. One of the most powerful frameworks he discusses is the 70-20-10 innovation model, which allocates resources across three strategic areas.

• Seventy percent should focus on the core business that drives revenue today.
• Twenty percent should support adjacent innovations that expand existing offerings.
• Ten percent should fund transformational ideas that shape the long-term future.

Throughout our conversation, we touch on essential themes such as the delicate balance between innovation and operational stability, the importance of teamwork, and the cultivation of a culture that embraces both performance and play. Joel’s insights into leadership excellence and transformational leadership provide valuable lessons for executives and aspiring leaders alike, offering a roadmap for navigating the complexities of organizational growth and business transformation.

We also delve into the challenges of over-innovation and the necessity of emotional intelligence in leadership. Joel’s perspective on maintaining a dynamic balance in life and business serves as a clarion call for all leaders striving for real-world change. He shares actionable strategies for enhancing communication in leadership and optimizing talent, ensuring that organizations not only adapt but thrive in extraordinary times.

This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone interested in change management, employee empowerment, and the transformative power of creativity in the workplace. Joel emphasizes the value of what he calls the one percent rule, intentionally safeguarding a small portion of time dedicated to reflection, exploration, and renewal. This protected time often leads to breakthrough ideas and deeper clarity for leaders. Join us as we uncover the innovative leadership strategies that can help you and your organization master change management and achieve audacious goals.

This episode offers a powerful perspective for leaders embracing innovation, driving meaningful change, and facilitating business growth in a rapidly evolving business landscape.

If you are ready to rethink how leadership, creativity, and performance intersect, this episode will challenge you to move forward in new ways. Don’t miss out on this opportunity to learn from one of the brightest business executives in the world.

Key Moments:

00:00:00 – Movement Sparked the Business
A personal pain point led to FluidStance—and a new way of thinking about work and performance.

00:01:40 – The Problem with “Sit to Focus”
Why traditional environments suppress energy, creativity, and human potential.

00:03:20 – Why Movement Improves Thinking
How physical movement unlocks better ideas, clarity, and collaboration.

00:04:45 – When You Lose Your Creative Edge
Joel shares how stillness in corporate life drained his energy—and how he reclaimed it.

00:05:50 – Entrepreneur vs. Artist Mindset
Why embracing creativity changed how Joel leads, builds, and innovates.

00:08:10 – Creativity Needs Structure
The balance between big ideas and execution—and why both are essential.

00:09:10 – The Athlete Mindset in Business
Applying performance metrics and discipline to long-term business success.

00:10:25 – The Truth About Building FluidStance
Early wins, scaling challenges, and lessons from growing a product company.

00:12:40 – The Danger of Too Many Ideas
Why over-innovation creates chaos—and how focus drives real growth.

00:15:35 – The 70-20-10 Growth Framework
A proven model for balancing core operations, expansion, and future innovation.

00:20:30 – Designing Workplaces That Move
How to create environments that support physical, emotional, and intellectual flow.

00:22:35 – Avoiding Chaos or Stagnation
Finding the balance between innovation and stability without burning out.

00:24:20 – Why Play Is a Leadership Advantage
How play, movement, and shared experiences strengthen teams and ideas.

00:28:30 – The 1% That Drives Performance
Protecting energy, recovery, and meaningful moments for sustained success.

00:36:15 – Grit, Growth, and What Leaders Leave Behind
Redefining grit and embracing dynamic balance as the true legacy of leadership.

About Joel Heath:

Joel Heath is a consumer brand and product architect, front-end innovator, and CEO. He develops insight-led strategies that shape category-defining products, reposition brands, and drive growth with purpose. He is the Founder and CEO of FluidStance, and he also advises companies in the biotech and outdoor categories. FluidStance is reimagining the workplace by bringing movement, energy, and well-being into static environments. Joel is also taking on select fractional and board roles where he can contribute to brand, product, and growth strategy within his leadership role.

Previously, he helped lead the turnaround of Teva as part of the Deckers Brands (NASDAQ: DECK) leadership team. His first successful exit was an experiential brand agency in Vail, Colorado, where they created campaigns for Volkswagen, Native Eyewear, Payday Candy Bars, and Sports Illustrated. Joel conceived of and created the GoPro Mountain Games, the largest outdoor adventure event in the world, broadcast on NBC and CBS. In addition to athletic events, the GoPro Mountain Games include a mountain photography competition, adventure film school, film festival, interactive exhibition, live music, and mountain lifestyle parties.

Joel works as a strategic advisor, helping organizations clarify their why, develop disruptive product concepts, and build authentic connections with their audiences. His leadership spans startups, global brands, and purpose-driven organizations, with a focus on long-term value creation.

Beyond business, he is a founding board member of First Descents, a nonprofit that delivers life-changing outdoor experiences for young adults surviving cancer and other serious health challenges.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• The 70-20-10 Innovation Framework
• “Grit”by Angela Duckworth

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Contact Joel Heath | FluidStance:

• Website: FluidStance.com
• Joel Heath on LinkedIn

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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What if the key to thriving in the age of AI lies not in reducing your workforce but in empowering it? In this solo episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, host Sara Sheehan delves into the often-overlooked truth about the role of employees amidst the rise of agentic AI systems and AI oversight.

Agentic AI systems do not simply automate tasks. They reshape the economics of work, speed, scale, and consequence. While many leaders focus on cost reduction and role replacement, Sara makes a compelling case that AI transformations actually increase the strategic importance of employees.

Why? Because autonomous systems amplify whatever infrastructure they inherit. Broken workflows, poor data governance, unclear decision rights, and cultural fragmentation do not disappear with AI. They accelerate.

This episode walks through the ten highest impact contributions employees make during an agentic AI transformation. Listeners will gain insights into leadership excellence and transformational leadership, discovering how to foster a workplace culture that nurtures employee empowerment and talent optimization. Sara shares real-world change stories that highlight the transformative power of viewing AI oversight not as a workforce reduction tool but as a workforce multiplier that enhances human capabilities. This episode is packed with change management strategies and innovative leadership insights that will inspire leaders to embrace a growth mindset and cultivate creativity within their teams.

The Ten Highest Value Human Contributions in an AI Transformation

1. Conducting Rigorous Process Reviews

Before automation, employees surface hidden inefficiencies, bottlenecks, and failure points. They map how work truly happens, not how it appears in documentation. For CEOs, this is margin protection and scalability engineering.

2. Data Cleanup and Governance

AI systems are only as reliable as the data they consume. Employees safeguard decision infrastructure through data normalization, ownership definition, and governance discipline. This is enterprise risk management in action.

3. Human Oversight of Autonomous Systems

Autonomous systems introduce a new category of risk: invisible error at machine speed. Employees monitor outputs, detect anomalies, manage model drift, and intervene in high-impact decisions. Oversight enables controlled acceleration rather than uncontrolled exposure.

4. Exception Handling and Contextual Judgment

Business reality is complex and dynamic. Employees protect value at the boundaries where AI struggles, including ambiguous ethical situations, regulatory shifts, and strategic trade-offs. Automation scales the process. Humans scale judgment.

5. Training and Refining AI Agents

Employees transform generic AI into a proprietary advantage. Through feedback loops, domain corrections, and system refinement, they align AI capabilities with competitive context.

6. Cross-Functional Translation

Agentic AI transformations often stall due to silos. Employees who bridge operations, finance, legal, IT, and customer experience create coherence. They translate technical capability into business outcomes and reduce political drag.

7. Identifying High Value Automation Opportunities

Not all automation creates ROI. Employees closest to the work distinguish between high-leverage opportunities and novelty projects. Their insight strengthens capital allocation discipline.

8. Driving Change Adoption and Cultural Stability

AI adoption is psychological as much as technical. Employees stabilize performance during uncertainty by modeling new behaviors and reducing resistance through understanding.

9. Risk Detection and Ethical Safeguards

Bias, compliance conflicts, and unintended consequences can scale rapidly in AI environments. Employees serve as early detectors, integrating human values and organizational norms into governance frameworks.

10. Continuous Improvement and System Evolution

An agentic AI transformation is not a project with an end date. It is a continuous capability shift. Employees drive iterative refinement, integration expansion, and performance optimization, ensuring AI becomes a compounding advantage rather than a depreciating tool.

As you listen, consider how you can implement these innovative leadership approaches, communication strategies and change management techniques to engage your stakeholders effectively. Whether you are a CEO, CHRO, or a leader in human resources, this episode offers invaluable perspectives on navigating the future of work and driving organizational change.

Sara leaves leaders with a powerful question:

The issue is not how many roles AI will replace. The issue is how to maximize the unique value humans contribute alongside autonomous systems.

High-performing organizations treat employees as co-architects of transformation. They elevate people into roles as designers of intelligent workflows, stewards of data integrity, governors of autonomous systems, and guardians of judgment and ethics.

AI may redefine industries. But organizations that win will deliberately cultivate the human capabilities that AI cannot replicate: contextual reasoning, ethical discernment, adaptive thinking, and strategic judgment.

Technology transforms organizations. People determine whether that transformation creates enterprise value or destroys it.

If you are serious about AI-driven business transformation, AI oversight, workforce strategy, and sustainable competitive advantage, this conversation will reshape how you think about human capital in the age of autonomous systems.

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Key Moments:

00:00:01 Introduction: Agentic AI Transformation and the Future of Workforce Strategy

00:01:36 Chapter 1: Business Process Optimization for Scalable AI Implementation

00:02:47 Chapter 2: Data Governance and Data Quality Management in Enterprise AI Systems

00:03:53 Chapter 3: AI Governance and Human Oversight in Autonomous Systems

00:04:50 Chapter 4: Human Judgment in AI Decision Making and Exception Management

00:05:38 Chapter 5: Training, Prompt Engineering, and AI System Optimization for Competitive Advantage

00:06:33 Chapter 6: Cross-Functional Leadership in Enterprise AI Transformation

00:07:26 Chapter 7: Strategic Automation Planning and High ROI AI Use Cases

00:08:16 Chapter 8: Change Management Strategy for AI Adoption and Workforce Transformation

00:08:39 Chapter 9: Ethical AI, Risk Mitigation, and Compliance in AI-Driven Organizations

00:09:40 Chapter 10: Continuous Improvement and AI System Evolution for Long-Term Business Growth

00:10:29 CEO Strategy: Human AI Collaboration as a Competitive Advantage

00:11:05 Closing: AI Workforce Transformation and Enterprise Value Creation

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

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In this episode, host Sara Sheehan welcomes Jed Ayres, the visionary CEO of ControlUp, a leader at the forefront of digital employee experience and autonomous IT operations. Jed reflects on his early years owning and operating a hotel and restaurant, where performance feedback was immediate and ruthless. These formative experiences shaped his servant leadership philosophy, which emphasizes empathy, accountability, and trust as the foundation of high-performing organizations. Jed’s unique journey reveals invaluable lessons in leadership excellence and transformational leadership.

Jed explains how the shift to remote and hybrid work during the pandemic revealed a critical gap in traditional IT operations. While companies spent years prioritizing customer experience, employee digital experience lagged behind. This lag created friction, anxiety, and lost productivity. From that, Jed led the evolution of ControlUp from a deep technology platform into a cutting-edge, unified digital employee experience solution. As organizations navigate the complexities of the digital employee experience, understanding the human element becomes essential. He clarifies the difference between managing technology performance and managing employee experience, highlighting how real-time telemetry, automation, and AI eliminate repetitive troubleshooting and dramatically lower ticket volumes. Gartner predictions support this shift, suggesting organizations that fail to adopt these platforms risk falling behind operationally and competitively.

Sara and Jed discuss how AI transforms IT from a reactive cost center into a strategic enabler. By using real-time data contextualized around individual employees, AI can identify issues, recommend fixes, and even remediate problems. This not only reduces operational drag but also frees IT teams to focus on higher-value strategic work. Jed also addresses common misconceptions about DEX, urging organizations to prioritize core IT operational efficiencies before venturing into HR aspects. This strategic alignment is crucial for fostering an environment where talent can thrive, ultimately leading to organizational growth and innovation in leadership.

From a leadership perspective, Jed emphasizes that successful digital workplace transformation requires executive sponsorship, cross-functional collaboration, and cultural readiness. Successful organizations formalize digital employee experience at the board level, invest in dedicated ownership, and commit to long-term partnerships rather than isolated tool deployments. With these accelerating changes in how we work, Jed emphasizes the urgent need for seamless technology experiences that empower employees and enhance productivity. This episode is not just a conversation; it’s a clarion call for transformational thinkers to embrace change management strategies that cultivate workplace culture and enhance communication in leadership.

The episode posits a bold prediction: In the near future, manual troubleshooting will be viewed as reckless and wasteful. Autonomous IT operations powered by AI will become the standard, fundamentally reshaping how organizations operate and how leaders think about productivity and human potential. Don't miss out on this opportunity to engage with one of the industry's leading voices in business transformation. Tune in to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan and discover how to transform challenges into opportunities for growth and success.

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About Jed Ayres:

Jed Ayres brings vast experience in leading multinational software organizations to ControlUp, successfully executing strong organic and inorganic growth strategies, building groundbreaking leadership teams, executing strong partnerships, and expanding internationally. Most recently, Ayres served as CEO of IGEL, where he was instrumental in its acquisition by TA Associates and positioning it as a market leader. Prior to that, Ayres was responsible for the strong growth in category leader AppSense (acquired by Ivanti) and held executive leadership positions with MCPc (acquired by Logicalis), MTM Technologies, and GE Capital IT Solutions.

Key Moments:

00:00:01 – Welcome and Introduction to Jed Ayres

00:01:30 – Hospitality Roots and the Servant Leadership Mindset

00:03:00 – Why Digital Employee Experience Became a Strategic Imperative

00:04:45 – The Hidden Cost of Poor Technology Experiences at Work

00:06:20 – Optimization vs Monitoring in Digital Employee Experience

00:08:10 – From Legacy IT Tools to Real Time Data and Automation

00:10:00 – Why AI Is Perfect for Eliminating Repetitive IT Work

00:12:45 – Reframing DEX as a Business Outcome for CEOs and Boards

00:15:30 – Tool Consolidation and the Financial Impact of Automation

00:18:00 – Cutting Through Data Noise with AI Driven Insights

00:20:15 – Frontline Workers, Brand Experience, and Digital Friction

00:23:20 – Common Misconceptions About Digital Employee Experience

00:26:15 – DEX as the Gateway to Autonomous Endpoint Management

00:29:45 – Leadership, Trust, and Empowerment in Transformation

00:45:10 – A Bold Prediction for the Future of Work and IT Operations

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara
• Submit Questions or Feedback to Sara

Contact Jed Ayres | ControlUp:

• Website: ControlUp.com
• LinkedIn: JedAyres

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Susan brings a grounded, real-world perspective shaped by years of advising organizations through challenging employee relations, legal exposure, and leadership capability gaps. With the rise of wage and hour claims, understanding local laws has never been more crucial for companies expanding their workforce across state lines. This conversation is a clarion call for CEOs and CHROs to take proactive measures in addressing employee relations concerns, emphasizing the importance of timely action and thorough investigations when challenges arise. This episode is essential listening for executives who want to future-proof their organizations by strengthening managers and building cultures that balance performance, empathy, and accountability.

Sara addresses how, as workforces have become increasingly distributed, HR complexity has accelerated. Susan Levi explains why expanding across state lines introduces significant compliance risk, particularly around wage and hour laws and leave requirements. She emphasizes that many organizations underestimate these challenges and that proactive due diligence is now a leadership requirement rather than an HR afterthought.

They discuss employee relations and highlight why ignoring issues, especially when high performers are involved, creates outsized legal and cultural risk. Susan explains why leaders must investigate concerns promptly with accurate documentation and resist the temptation to just move problems elsewhere within the organization. Addressing issues directly, even when uncomfortable, is critical to protecting both people and the business.

Recruiting and retention remain front-line concerns for CEOs, and Susan shares why behavioral interviewing consistently outperforms hypothetical questioning by ensuring better cultural fit and significantly reducing employee turnover. Discover how to implement these transformational insights to foster a thriving workplace culture that empowers employees and aligns with your strategic goals. To retain top performers, she dives into the significance of stay interviews, a powerful tool for retaining top talent, and stresses the need for organizations to understand what keeps their employees satisfied, engaged, and empowered.

With four generations now active in the workforce, leadership expectations around flexibility, feedback, and growth are colliding. Susan explains why flexibility has shifted from a perk to a business necessity in professional roles and why output, not micromanagement, is the standard for high-performing organizations. Sara and Susan urge leaders to adapt their management styles to cultivate a growth mindset within their teams.

Susan and Sara discuss why poor manager capability is one of the most common drivers of disengagement and turnover. New managers often struggle with feedback, coaching, and difficult conversations, not due to lack of intent, but lack of training. Investing in foundational management skills is one of the best moves organizations can make.

Susan identifies how HR leaders can combat change fatigue through transparency and visible progress, and stresses that clear communication focused on why changes are being made is a necessity. Looking ahead, she identifies two critical shifts leaders must make to future-proof HR: moving from reactive to proactive people practices and streamlining HR systems to create more seamless employee experiences. This episode also addresses the integration of AI into HR processes, cautioning against over-reliance on technology without human oversight.

Tune in for real-world change stories and innovative leadership strategies that will empower you to master change management and drive organizational growth. This episode is not just about insights; it's about transforming challenges into opportunities for thriving in extraordinary times. Join us for a journey of transformation that will elevate your understanding of employee relations, employee engagement techniques, and organizational change leadership. Don't miss out on this opportunity to enhance your leadership development and become a transformational thinker!

About Susan Levi:

Susan Levi is the Founder of Jinji HR, a human resources consulting firm known for navigating complex employee relations, compliance challenges, and leadership development issues. Susan partners closely with CEOs and leadership teams to reduce risk, strengthen manager capability, and modernize HR practices to support sustainable growth.

Susan received her PsyD in Organizational Management and Consulting from Phillips Graduate University and received a M.A. and B.A. degree in Psychology from Pepperdine University and the University of California, Irvine, respectively. She holds her SPHR and PHR certifications from the HR Certification Institute.

Susan has experience providing HR solutions to both for-profit and non-profit employers in a wide range of industries. Susan leverages this experience and understanding to develop solutions that are not only compliant but also align with industry best business practices, and help support employees with their HR needs.

When Susan is not working, she enjoys attending tap class, golfing, and spending time with her family and pomeranian, Sage.

Key Moments:

00:00 Introduction to Today’s HR Reality

00:40 Meet Susan Levi of Jinji HR

01:09 The Rise of Complex HR and Compliance Cases

02:51 Why Ignoring Employee Issues Creates Legal Risk

03:52 High Performers and the Cost of Looking the Other Way

05:35 Recruiting for Speed and Culture Fit in a Distributed Workforce

06:04 Behavioral Interviewing as a Competitive Advantage

08:10 Stay Interviews and Building Sticky Engagement

10:11 Growth Paths Beyond the Management Track

12:19 Leading Across Four Generations in the Workforce

13:35 Flexibility, Feedback, and Modern Performance Expectations

15:03 Preparing New Managers for Leadership Conversations

18:27 Responsible AI Use in HR and Recruiting

23:52 Managing Change Fatigue Through Transparency

28:27 Future Proofing HR Through Proactive Strategy and Process Simplification

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Susan Levi | JinjiHR:

• Website: JinjiHR.com
• LinkedIn: SusLevi

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In this enlightening episode of Transformational Thinkers, host Sara Sheehan sits down with Brad Stewart, the visionary founder of Music Mogul AI and CEO of Stewart Entertainment Agency, to unpack why the traditional music industry business model is fundamentally broken and how technology is creating a more efficient, artist-first future.

Throughout our conversation, we touched on the essence of transformational leadership and the importance of efficiently nurturing personal relationships within the music business. Brad emphasizes that while technology like Music Mogul AI can streamline processes, the human element remains indispensable. He shares how his platform not only provides tools for efficiency but also offers mentorship and consulting services, ensuring artists are well-equipped to navigate their careers.

With over 20 years inside the music industry, Brad explains how streaming economics, agency structures that are becoming outdated, and some fragmented systems have eroded artist revenue streams while increasing workload and burnout. He shares firsthand insights into the issues that plague artist management, booking, and marketing, and why the advice on simply “working harder” is no longer a viable strategy for independent artists trying to build sustainable careers.

Brad and Sara discuss Music Mogul AI, a groundbreaking software solution that revolutionizes how artists manage their bookings, marketing, and overall business operations. This innovative platform is not just about automation; it's about empowering artists to become efficient, reclaiming their time, and optimizing their revenue streams. Brad's insights into the economic challenges of the music industry highlight the critical role of data-driven decision-making in today’s landscape, making this episode a must-listen for anyone invested in business transformation.Built specifically for independent artists, bands, DJs, and agencies, the platform uses efficient AI agents to handle repetitive administrative work, streamlining touring and promotions, surfacing actionable data insights, and dramatically improving time-to-revenue. The result brings forward greater clarity and control, and long-term career management for creators navigating a fast-changing music industry.

Whether you’re an artist, manager, label executive, or business leader interested in how AI in the music industry is driving real-world transformation, this conversation offers a clear, data-driven look at where music industry technology is heading, and how early adopters can gain a lasting advantage.

About Brad Stewart:

With nearly 2 decades of experience in booking international touring acts, Stewart has worked with many amazing talents, such as icons Leon Russell and Ten Years After; blues giants Bobby Blue Bland and Walter Trout; jam scene heroes like Marc Ford (former lead guitarist of the Black Crowes), The Heavy Pets, Yo Mama's Big Fat Booty Band, Monophonics, and the Honey Island Swamp Band.

Along the way, Stewart earned a reputation as a professional with integrity, a strong work ethic, and the vision to promote a positive evolution of change in booking operations. Since Brad started as a hard-core music fan, the very foundation of Stewart Entertainment is based on his empathy for artists and his assistance for them to flourish. He was exposed to all types of roots and rock music while growing up in Mississippi and understood early on that music exerts a strong gravitational pull.

Armed with a degree in marketing, he moved to Charlotte, NC, scouring the landscape for a music business position that would allow him to work with and for artists in a meaningful way. He found that at Intrepid Artists. “I took on a lot of responsibility very quickly, handling booking for a large roster of artists in the northeast United States and Canada. Ultimately, he became steeped in every aspect of the business. Nashville’s burgeoning music scene dictated Stewart’s move from Charlotte and made Music City the perfect home for Stewart Entertainment, LLC. “I see a tremendous opportunity today for artists who have trustworthy human resources in place.”

Chapters:

00:00:02 Why the Music Industry Is Broken

00:00:56 Streaming Economics and Artist Leverage

00:04:52 Challenging the Traditional Agency Model

00:06:12 The True Unit Economics of Music

00:07:13 Burnout and the Talent Drain

00:09:20 Music Mogul AI and Time to Revenue

00:11:59 Who Music Mogul AI Serves

00:14:01 AI Agents for Booking and Marketing

00:22:03 The Management Agent and Business Planning

00:29:56 Turning Creative Data Into Signal

00:32:42 Focused Product Strategy and Tradeoffs

00:37:01 The Future of Music, AI, and Scale

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Brad Stewart | Music Mogul AI | Stewart Entertainment Agency:

• Brad Stewart personal site: BradStewart.site
• Stewart Entertainment Agency: StewartEntertainment.net
• Music Mogul AI: MusicMogulAI.com
• LinkedIn: Music-Mogul-AI

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What if the key to unlocking your true potential lies in setting audacious goals that stretch your capabilities beyond the ordinary? In this enlightening episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, we dive deep into the transformative power of bold goal-setting and its pivotal role in driving organizational growth and business transformation. Sara Sheehan, an expert in leadership excellence and change management, shares her insights on how these ambitious targets are not merely about bravado—they are essential for fostering innovation and achieving real-world change.

Sara outlines practical principles for crafting bold yet actionable goals that resonate with your core values, encouraging you to make them significant enough to inspire progress and require the development of new skills. She explains why aspirational goals serve as a North Star and are far more than simply motivational slogans. Audacious goals clarify direction, spark innovation, filter distractions, and push leaders out of mediocrity. They demand evolution from leadership to elevate their organizational performance.

Discover how to break down your audacious goals into manageable milestones that not only drive employee empowerment but also cultivate a resilient mindset essential for thriving in extraordinary times. Sara emphasizes the importance of daily habits, such as visualization and gratitude, to maintain focus and motivation on your journey toward transformational success. Sara shares high-performance routines like time blocking, prioritizing high-gain tasks, and seeking executive coaching that help leaders build a culture of accountability. Embracing such routines will strengthen the organizational ecosystem and maintain momentum in leadership transformation.

Sara outlines a goal decomposition blueprint that maps backwards from future outcomes and helps CEOs and founders align daily actions with long-term strategy. This approach supports sustainable business growth, strategic planning, and consistent execution. By integrating these practices into your routine, you can foster a workplace culture that embraces innovation in organizations and nurtures talent optimization.

As the episode unfolds, Sara issues a clarion call for listeners to embrace the challenge of setting their own audacious goals. This is your opportunity to embark on a journey of transformation that not only enhances your leadership capabilities but also inspires those around you. Join us as we explore transformational stories and business transformation insights that illustrate the profound impact of creative leadership in action.

Whether you are a CEO, CHRO, or a leader in any capacity, this episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan will equip you with the tools and inspiration needed to master change management and leverage your goals for maximum impact. Tune in and take the first step towards a future where you not only meet your goals but redefine what success truly means.

In This Episode:

• [00:02]: Welcome to Transformational Thinkers
• [00:29]: The Case for Thinking Bigger
• [01:45]: Principles for Setting Audacious Goals
• [03:15]: The Goal Decomposition Blueprint
• [04:24]: Mindset Mastery for Exponential Results
• [06:04]: Daily Habits of Audacious Leaders
• [08:24]: Aligning Culture and Ecosystem
• [09:34]: Your Audacious Goal Challenge

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, host Sara Sheehan breaks down the core principles from Dr. Benjamin Hardy’s new book, The Science of Scaling. In two key parts, both contained in this episode, she reveals how founders can achieve 10X growth by transforming their mindset, identity, and leadership standards. Sara explores Hardy’s Frame–Floor–Focus framework: an evidence-based playbook designed for founders and CEOs ready to think exponentially.

In part one, Sara dives into the science of scaling according to Hardy, explaining why the biggest constraint in any business is the founder’s current identity. Sara details how to set impossible goals that align with your future self, eliminate low-value activities, and simplify operations. She highlights the role of Super Whos, as Hardy names them, the high-performance team members and partners who can accelerate progress and level up capability. Super Whos are critical to success because they support founders in ruthless elimination, simplification, operational excellence, as well as achieving impossible goals.

In part two, Sara explores the deeper mindset transformation required to scale effectively. She talks about everything from Hardy’s future self-visualization to the 10X decision filter. We learn how to raise standards, complete a toleration audit, and adopt time compression strategies that force innovation and clarity. When auditing tolerations, it’s key to identify areas of the business that hinder the founder’s growth or impede strategic alignment. Sara emphasizes that scaling isn’t about doing more; it’s really about becoming a leader capable of building the next version of the company.

Packed with actionable tools, this episode is vital for founders, CEOs, and transformational thinkers ready to scale from the inside out and create a business aligned with visionary outcomes. Tune in to discover how you can thrive together with your team and achieve the extraordinary.

Don't miss this opportunity to empower your leadership journey and gain the tools needed for effective business and mindset transformation. Join us in this episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, where we challenge the status quo and unlock the potential for growth and innovation in your organization.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Science of Scaling: Grow Your Business Bigger and Faster Than You Think Possible” by Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Blake Erickson

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Did you know that nearly 70% of large-scale transformation efforts fail? In this enlightening episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, host Sara Sheehan, a seasoned change management consultant and executive coach, dives deep into the critical necessity of mastering change capability for CEOs and C-suite leaders. As the landscape of business transformation evolves, traditional models are proving to be outdated, and Sara advocates for a more agile, human-centric approach that prioritizes leadership excellence and employee empowerment.

Throughout the episode, Sara emphasizes that successful change management is not merely a project; it’s a transformative mindset that requires authentic leadership involvement and a culture of adaptability. With compelling data and real-world change stories, she illustrates how organizations equipped with strong change management capabilities significantly increase their likelihood of achieving project objectives and strategic alignment.

By introducing cohort-based change management training, Sara makes a clarion call for leaders to engage in tailored training programs that address specific business challenges. This innovative approach not only fosters organizational growth but also accelerates return on investment, making it an essential strategy for any CEO, CHRO, or business leader committed to thriving in today’s dynamic environment.

Join us as we explore the fascinating intersection of transformational leadership and effective change management strategies. Sara shares invaluable insights from her extensive experience in executive coaching and consulting, offering listeners a chance to understand the pivotal role of education in mastering change management. With a focus on talent optimization and stakeholder engagement, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their leadership pipeline and drive measurable transformation.

As the episode wraps up, Sara invites leaders to take the next step by scheduling a discovery call to discuss bespoke private cohorts designed to elevate their organizations. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn from the best and discover how to become a transformational thinker in your own right. Tune in to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan and unlock the secrets to successful business transformation today!

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Are you ready to unlock the transformative power of artificial intelligence for your business? Join host Sara Sheehan in this enlightening episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan as she engages with AI expert Dilip Dubey, who unveils the profound impacts AI can have on leadership excellence and organizational growth. This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the complexities of business transformation in a rapidly evolving landscape.

Dilip challenges the common misconceptions that surround AI, asserting that it is not merely another disruptive technology but rather a fundamental shift that can redefine how businesses operate. There are two main applications for AI that he outlines: automation and innovation. How can AI improve automation and lead innovation? That’s the question every business leader needs the answer to in order to understand why AI is the key to their business optimization. With his extensive knowledge, he shares real-world change stories highlighting how AI enhances efficiency, drives innovation, and creates measurable business value across various industries. This conversation is an invaluable resource for leaders seeking to master change management and embrace innovative leadership strategies.

Throughout their discussion, Dilip emphasizes the importance of adopting a proactive mindset towards AI. He advises leaders to initiate high-value, low-complexity projects that can quickly demonstrate tangible benefits. This approach not only fosters employee empowerment but also aligns with tailored change management training that can elevate your organization’s performance. As the conversation unfolds, Dilip addresses common fears regarding job displacement, illustrating how AI can augment human capabilities rather than replace them. This perspective is crucial for organizations aiming to thrive together in a competitive market.

Case studies of companies that used AI to double EBITDA, focusing on ROB (return on business) instead of ROI, and assuring employees that AI augments but does not replace humans are themes that Dilip shares. He has witnessed and spearheaded the power of AI to drive business efficiency to greater success, and he shares his extensive knowledge with Sara and listeners in this episode.

While Dilip notes that ethical use and bias prevention are critical themes in AI adoption, when designed responsibly it also has the power to correct systemic inequalities. Human governance will always be required to weed out existing bias. But with oversight intact, AI has the power to redefine entire business models and create new opportunities that don’t exist today.

As the episode draws to a close, Dilip provides practical advice for leaders on fostering an AI-friendly culture and leveraging data effectively. He emphasizes that embracing AI as a strategic initiative is essential for remaining competitive and relevant. This episode is packed with insights that will resonate with CEOs, CHROs, and any stakeholders looking to enhance their leadership alignment and drive organizational change through innovative solutions.

Don’t miss this opportunity to gain expert insights and actionable strategies that can transform your approach to AI and business transformation. Tune in to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan and discover how to lead your organization through the complexities of change management while maximizing the potential of artificial intelligence. Listen now to equip yourself with the knowledge and tools needed for effective executive development and strategy implementation.

About Dilip Dubey:

Dilip Dubey is a pioneer in artificial intelligence with a deep passion for understanding its promise and complexities. As a founder, CEO, patent-holding inventor, mentor, coach, and investor, he has created and scaled multiple AI companies, generating over $500 million in shareholder value. Dilip's work spans a wide range of sectors, driving transformation and delivering AI-driven value while making a meaningful impact on society. His involvement in initiatives such as Inventrepreneur.me reflects his commitment to using AI and innovation to eradicate poverty and foster gender equality. Dilip remains dedicated to leveraging AI as a powerful tool for business evolution and societal change.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Dilip Dubey:

• Website: Dubey.ai
• LinkedIn: Dilip-Dubey-ai
• Email: dilip@dubey.ai

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What if the secret to unlocking unparalleled employee engagement lies not in metrics, but in the profound simplicity of respect? Join host Sara Sheehan as she dives deep into this transformative idea with author John Guaspari in the latest episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. In his compelling book, "If Engagement is the What, Then Respect is the How," Guaspari challenges conventional wisdom, urging leaders to rethink their approach to workplace culture.

Throughout this enlightening discussion, Guaspari reveals how respect serves as the bedrock of employee engagement and organizational success. Many leaders mistakenly prioritize quantifiable metrics over the essential intangibles that shape workplace dynamics. By emphasizing the interconnectedness of respect, trust, empowerment, and engagement, he illustrates why respect is the most crucial and controllable factor in fostering a thriving organizational culture.

Are you aware of the common misconceptions that CEOs hold about respect and employee engagement? Guaspari sheds light on how miscommunication can erode trust and disrupt team dynamics, leading to a disengaged workforce. This episode is a must-listen for any leader seeking to enhance their team's morale, productivity, and employee satisfaction by genuinely considering others.

Guaspari shares practical insights and real-world examples from his extensive experience in leadership development, demonstrating how even small changes in leadership behavior can yield significant improvements in employee satisfaction. Discover actionable strategies to cultivate a culture of respect, ensuring that engagement becomes an ongoing process rather than a mere checkbox activity.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that authentic engagement is built on a foundation of respect, trust, and empowerment. If you're a CEO or leader looking to navigate the complexities of workplace culture, tune in to gain valuable perspectives that can transform your organization.

Don't miss this opportunity to learn from one of the industry's thought leaders. Engage with us, share your thoughts, and discover how you can apply these insights to your own organization. Join the conversation and transform your leadership approach today!

About John Guaspari:

Since the mid-1980s, John Guaspari has helped leaders increase the level of employee engagement throughout their organizations.

John is the author of six previous books on the topic, including the best-selling "I Know It When I See It" and "The Value Effect: A Murder Mystery About the Compulsive Pursuit of the Next Big Thing". His writing credits also include seven training videos (one of which is the best-selling "Time: The Next Dimension of Quality") as well as hundreds of articles and columns for a broad range of business publications. His new business book is "If Engagement is the What, Then Respect is the How".

John has worked with clients in scores of industries and has delivered over a thousand engagement-related presentations, seminars, and workshops for public and client-specific audiences alike. In the process, he has gained an enviable reputation for his ability to unravel complex subject matter and communicate it in the kind of accessible and engaging way that leads to real learning. Said another way, he knows how to be engaging about engagement.

Long before entering the world of consulting, John began his professional career as an aerospace engineer, after which he went on to hold senior management positions in widely varying functions such as marketing, sales support, customer support, quality, organizational effectiveness, and leadership development.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact John Guaspari:

• Website: JohnGuaspari.com
• LinkedIn: John Guaspari
• New Book: “If Engagement is the What, Then Respect is the How: Hard-Learned Lessons from Dealing with Those Pesky Intangibles, a.k.a. 'The Soft Stuff’” by John Guaspari

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Are you ready to transform your organization's approach to innovation and intellectual property? Join host Sara Sheehan in this enlightening episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, where she dives deep into the mind of Daniel Shulman, Intellectual Property (IP) Attorney at Vedder Price in Chicago, and a leading expert in intellectual property and innovation. Daniel is a former chief IP counsel for a large manufacturing company and also serves as an adjunct law school professor of legal writing. In a world where the pace of change is relentless, fostering a culture of innovation is no longer optional; it's essential for survival and growth. Shulman reveals that innovation should not just be a buzzword but a core value that permeates every level of corporate culture.

Throughout their engaging conversation, Sara and Daniel explore the often-overlooked steps that leaders must take to empower their workforce and create an environment where innovative ideas flourish. Shulman emphasizes the importance of recognizing and supporting those who contribute to innovation, suggesting that organizations can leverage intellectual property not merely as a defensive tool, but as a powerful asset for competitive advantage. This shift in perspective can lead to groundbreaking solutions and significant business success.

Listeners will gain practical strategies that can be implemented immediately, such as training employees on innovation methodologies, fostering open communication channels, and recognizing contributions to innovation—whether through formal programs or informal gestures of appreciation. Shulman advocates for a collaborative approach, highlighting the need for multidisciplinary teamwork to drive innovative solutions that can address complex challenges.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for executives and leaders who are eager to cultivate a self-sustaining culture of innovation within their organizations. With a focus on humility and openness to new ideas, Shulman encourages leaders to step back and allow their teams to take the reins in the innovation process. The conversation serves as a crucial reminder that innovation is not a one-time effort but a continuous journey that requires commitment and vision.

Don't miss this opportunity to learn from one of the foremost thinkers in the field of intellectual property and innovation. Tune in to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan and discover how you can transform your organization into a powerhouse of creativity and innovation. Your path to fostering a thriving culture of innovation starts here!

About Daniel Shulman:

Daniel Shulman is a Shareholder at Vedder Price and a member of the firm’s Intellectual Property group in the Chicago office.

Mr. Shulman’s practice focuses on all aspects of intellectual property acquisition, monetization and enforcement, including complex patent litigation, trademark litigation, copyright litigation, trade secret litigation and all aspects of patent and trademark prosecution and portfolio management. Mr. Shulman also focuses on complex commercial matters, advertising disputes before courts and the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau, products liability, antitrust matters and enforcement of restrictive covenants.

Mr. Shulman brings over 12 years’ experience as Chief IP Counsel for multibillion-dollar companies holding thousands of worldwide patents and trademarks. While in-house, Mr. Shulman developed licensing strategies for the licensing in and out of next-generation technologies, managed due diligence processes for the acquisition and disposition of patents, and advised on litigation and defensive strategy relating to litigations. He managed an entire global patent and trademark portfolio for the North American operations of consumer products companies having over $12 billion in annual revenue while developing strategic technology areas to drive company innovation, directing innovation and patent filing and protecting their global patent portfolio through strategic interaction with foreign patent counsel.

Mr. Shulman was named one of the Top Forty Lawyers Under 40 in Illinois in 2013 by the Law Bulletin, Managing IP Top In-House IP Star every year from 2015 through 2018, and received the First Chair Award Top In-House Intellectual Property Counsel in 2015, 2016 and 2018. Managing IP also recognized him as an “IP Star for Illinois” in the 2023 edition ofindividual practitioner IP Star rankings for Patents, Trademarks, Copyright, Designs and Transactions. He was also recognized in the 2024 edition of Managing IP’s List of IP stars as a Patent and Trademark star. Mr. Shulman was recognized by Best Lawyers in America in the Patent Law category for 2023 and 2024, Litigation – Intellectual Property in 2024 and Litigation – Patent in 2024. Additionally, he was ranked in all three of these categories in 2025 and 2026. Mr. Shulman was also named a Leading Lawyer in 2024 and 2025 for Advertising & Media Law, Copyright & Trademark Law, Intellectual Property Law and Trade Secrets/Unfair Compensation Law.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Daniel Shulman:

• Website: VedderPrice.com/Daniel-H-Shulman
• LinkedIn: Daniel-H-Shulman

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan welcomes Alykhan Jetha (AJ), the CEO of Marketcircle and Daylite, to the show. Daylite is a software that works in the Apple ecosystem, a productivity CRM that Alykhan is expanding to include time tracking and invoicing for a holistic package. He talks with Sara about how he funded Marketcircle, his company’s growth trajectory, and his thoughts on the necessity of adapting to growth and change.

Alykhan and Sara discuss why focusing on the employees and staff who are innovative and open to change is so important for company growth. Adaptability and malleability are important assets to cultivate. Alykhan shares insights from times when conventional leadership wisdom was at odds with his own insight as CEO, and how he followed his instincts for the benefit of the company. His experiences as a leader display versatile thinking and careful consideration of his team.

Clarifying the why of what he’s doing is a key step for Alykhan in making sense of fast-moving business scenarios. Sara learns how he forms a strategic roadmap for his executives and staff, the way leaders need to think ahead to understand transformation, and how he assesses future mindsets like AI in relation to his company. Alykhan is clear about his personal beliefs and habits, the ones that ground him in his organizational style, and he explains how he guides his staff and himself away from burnout with support and clear communication.

About Alykhan Jetha:

Alykhan Jetha (AJ) is an entrepreneur, bootstrapper, underdog, and President & CEO of Marketcircle, the company behind Daylite, an award-winning Mac CRM empowering small business owners, entrepreneurs & bootstrapping builders across the globe.

Alykhan was born in the Democratic Republic of Congo (called Zaire back then) – and his family was expelled for being of East Indian descent. They left their home and spent time in Brussels before coming to Canada with nothing but the clothing on their backs.

Alykhan studied computer hardware in college and found a love for programming. He founded Marketcircle, a software company developing award-winning business apps for the Mac, iPhone & iPad, after thousands of hours working late into the night. He built the original company as a dotcom, but by the time he had drawn the attention of Silicon Valley’s biggest venture capital firms, the dotcom bubble had burst. He pivoted – and eventually became the SaaS product they are today.

He is humbled to have been featured in the Financial Post, Globe & Mail, Yahoo! Finance, and numerous Mac-industry media outlets. He is passionate about lean entrepreneurship and process-driven startup growth. For Alykhan, the “9 to 5” is an artificial construct.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Alykhan Jetha:

• Website: daylite.app
• LinkedIn: AlykhanJetha
• Instagram: @marketcircle

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan welcomes Balki Kodarapu, a fractional CTO, Gen AI advisor, and SaaS scale-up expert. Balki shares how he helps startups grow from $100K to $40M ARR, avoid the “feature factory” trap, and build outcome-driven engineering teams. His specialty is creating clarity out of chaos—turning bottlenecks, missed deadlines, and organizational confusion into scalable systems and high-performing teams. He explains his strategies and insights to Sara.

Balki reveals why every startup needs a clear engineering roadmap, how to use OKRs and scorecards effectively, and why focus is the most underappreciated growth lever. Balki also discusses modern hiring practices and breaks down how his four pillars of engineering excellence - modular architecture, automated testing, compliance, and observability - help teams create the necessary focus on the right things.

To shift teams from a “feature factory” mindset, Balki encourages leaders to focus on impact rather than just outputs. Balki shares his leadership philosophy: first building trust with teams by working alongside them and even shipping code himself as a CTO. He sees the fractional CTO role growing in importance and advises founders to seek leaders with both hands-on technical depth and strategic understanding across multiple company stages. This episode shines a light on how to effectively lead through change.

About Balki Kodarapu:

Balki Kodarapu is a fractional CTO who helps SaaS and GenAI startups scale from $100k to $50M ARR—without burning through budgets or momentum. He has led six startups through hyper-growth, raised over $160M, delivered multiple exits, and built GenAI products that power pharmacists, care navigators, and Fortune 100 tech-support teams.

Balki specialize in stepping into chaos—engineering bottlenecks, missed ship dates, org confusion—and turning it into clarity, velocity, and meaningful business results. Over the past 9 years, he’s led engineering at six companies (including two successful exits), often wearing every hat: hands-on EM, coach of other engineering leaders, and strategic Head of Engineering.

He has a relentless focus on developer effectiveness and scalable systems, plus a firm belief that high-performance starts with human performance. He pushes every team he works with to carve out 15+ hours/week for learning, reflection, and growth. He wakes up excited about what mission-focused engineering teams can create with the right clarity, culture, and autonomy.

Outside of work, Balki mentors engineers, engineering leaders, youth nonprofits, jokes around with his golden retriever Finn, and devours an unreasonable number of podcasts and books. If you care about building better teams, scaling smarter, or surviving the startup trenches— he has stories, scars, and context-rich lessons to share.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Balki Kodarapu:

• Website: YourCTOin.us
• LinkedIn: Balki

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In this episode of Transformational Thinkers, Sara Sheehan welcomes Eduardo Briceño, a keynote speaker, behavior change partner, and co-founder and CEO of Mindset Works, to the show to discuss the performance paradox. Eduardo explains this as being so focused on performance that we lose sight of learning and asking questions about what makes our performance effective. He discusses his book “The Performance Paradox” and the differences between the learning zone and performance zone with Sara.

Great performers, according to Eduardo, give the best performance they can on stage, but behind the curtains, they are doing hours of experimenting, trying new strategies, soliciting feedback, and learning. Performance without integration of learning leads to stagnation. Eduardo’s TED Talk “How to Get Better at the Things You Care About” highlights the need to alternate between the learning and performance zones for true improvement.

Sara’s conversation with Eduardo explores many of his teachings and strategies, including creating a safe space to experiment, the value of not just preaching continuous improvement, but creating an authentic learning culture, and why there is a need to reframe mistakes and errors into essential progress steps. Eduardo uses many examples of devoted high performers like Beyonce to illustrate the benefits of re-watching one’s performance to learn from it, and explains why learning and performing are not opposing forces but ones that should be integrated. This episode will change the way we view growth and mindset as related to our performance output.

About Eduardo Briceño:

Eduardo Briceño is a keynote speaker, facilitator, and behavior change partner who guides many of the world’s leading companies in developing cultures of continuous improvement, innovation, and high performance. His TED talk, “How To Get Better At The Things You Care About,” and his TEDx talk, “The Power of Belief,” have been viewed more than ten million times. His book, The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset into Action, won multiple awards. His work has been featured in Harvard Business Review, Big Think, Business Insider, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, Forbes, Inc., Quartz, and others.

Earlier in his career, Eduardo was the co-founder and CEO of Mindset Works, the pioneer in growth mindset development services, which he started with Stanford professor Carol Dweck and which he led for over a decade. Prior to that, he was a venture capital investor with the Sprout Group and served on several for-profit and non-profit boards. Before that, he was an investment banking analyst with Credit Suisse. He is a Pahara-Aspen Fellow, a member of the Aspen Institute’s Global Leadership Network, and an inductee in the Happiness Hall of Fame.

Originally from Caracas, Venezuela, Eduardo holds bachelor’s degrees in economics and engineering from the University of Pennsylvania, as well as an MBA and M.A. in education from Stanford University. Most importantly, he continues to enjoy lifelong learning every day.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Performance Paradox: Turning the Power of Mindset Into Action” by Eduardo Briceño

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Eduardo Briceño

• Website: briceno.com
• LinkedIn: eduardo-briceno

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Sara Sheehan welcomes guest Mark Gordon, Founder and CEO of Integrated Go-To-Market Solutions, to the show for a conversation about blending psychology into scaling companies and how he positively re-energizes relationships with clients. Through his company, IGTMS, Mark helps startups and mid-market companies align scattered sales into one revenue-generating machine. He talks with Sara about his career journey, the challenges of entrepreneurship, and how lessons learned from playing rugby have stayed with him.

What motivates people is a foundational interest of Mark’s, and that fascination with people and his college psychology major drove Mark to the philosophies that guide his company today. How can we create a place where people will do the best work they’ve ever done? Mark pulled lessons from sports and from business school in addition to psychology to answer that question. People are generally trying their best, which is a belief Mark uses in his coaching techniques. Finding people who want to get better every day and creating an environment where they can do their best is the essence of his principles.

Mark’s history with rugby has informed his life in and out of work, and he shares stories that illustrate some of the lessons learned. Sports teams teach us to understand leadership, according to Mark, and people’s trust in the aptitude of their leader is what compels them to follow. Sara finds out which books inspire Mark, his thoughts on entrepreneurship, and client success stories that illustrate how he achieves significant results. He shares his Core Four foundational views and how he guides salespeople to greater revenue in this compelling episode about motivation and successful business scaling.

About Mark D. Gordon:

Mark Gordon is a veteran sales coach, growth strategist, and founder of Integrated Go-To-Market Solutions (IGTMS). Known for blending psychology with practical GTM strategies, Mark has helped thousands of sales professionals and scaled multiple companies into eight-figure successes. He specializes in cutting through misalignment to build high-performing, revenue-driving systems for B2B founders.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• Jim Collins books
• “Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance” by Angela Duckworth

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Mark Gordon

• Website: igtms.com
• LinkedIn: MarkDouglasGordon
• Instagram: @MarkDGordon

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Sara Sheehan welcomes guest Rashesh Doshi, Managing Director of Talent Corner, to the podcast to explore his HR business and the fantastic growth his business has experienced. Rashesh details the growth in numbers and explains how their franchise partners add to the growth and are supported. They also discuss how the Stanford Seed Transformation Program is positively impacting Talent Corner as a team and Rashesh personally. It’s due to this reinvigoration that Rashesh is looking to expand Talent Corner out of India into nine other markets with the assistance of Stanford. Sara finds out part of the scaling plan for such an aspirational goal and talks about many of Rashesh’s guiding principles.

The franchise partners Talent Corner that brings in are welcomed into a robust training program, and are supported by a 27-member in-house team. Rashesh further explains that franchise partners are focused on servicing, not generating new business, so they are taking care of existing clients, which has helped the company’s growth in referrals. The Stanford Seed Transformation Program is also a key part of Rashesh’s scaling strategy, as their support has added to the team’s understanding of their company’s capabilities and is supporting the goal of expanding into nine new areas.

Sara discusses Rashesh’s transformation plan for balancing the company’s scaling goal with caring for partners and employees, and Rashesh stresses that the entire team has a part in the journey; it isn’t just him leading from the front. As he moves into this new chapter, Rashesh says he’s been learning to listen better and how that’s incorporated into the coaching within the company. His passion for networking has been a key motivator for his success as well, and the sharing of insights is something he cherishes.

About Rashesh Doshi:

He joined the company in 2004 and expanded the recruitment and business development teams. He came up with a Franchise Model which is extremely strong & effective. Today, Talent Corner is one of the Companies which has run the franchise business expansion plan for many years & has brought loads of success to its partners and to Talent Corner.

He is focused on being responsible for the strategic growth of the company.

He believes in the Philosophy of “Plan More, Think Longer & Once Decided Act Fast”.

Rashesh is a Member of BNI (Business Networking International), Round Table India and Mr. Harsh Mariwala’s (Marico Industries) PSR Project – Ascent.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Rashesh Doshi

• Website: TalentCorner.in
• LinkedIn: RasheshDoshi
• YouTube: @TalentCorner

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Sara Sheehan welcomes guest Jim Carlough, a business strategist, author, and speaker with over 30 years of leadership experience, to the podcast for a conversation about how leaders are developed. Jim talks about his career journey and what makes for good leadership, highlighting insights from his book “The Six Pillars of Effective Leadership: A Roadmap to Success”. Sara and Jim focus on specifically discussing the two pillars of integrity and empathy as they relate to powerful leaders. Jim’s philosophy on empathy includes an obligation to lead employees and teams with compassion and camaraderie.

Jim shares advice from his current role as a Chief Sales Officer and offers a glimpse into the future of growth he envisions for his company. His other focus is leadership and helping people become better leaders, which is the impetus for writing his book “The Six Pillars of Effective Leadership”. Sara learns that while Jim envisioned the book as being written for corporate America, he’s had a great deal of success with the book being popular among superintendents and teachers in schools. Of the six pillars, Jim claims integrity is the non-negotiable pillar because transparency and integrity are vital for building trust with teams and organizations.

Better leaders are developed in part by getting in among the team being led. Jim notes that true camaraderie and integrity can’t be built “if you sit behind a closed door and sit behind a computer and just send emails to people all day”. He discusses stories from his own leadership experiences with Sara, highlighting the necessity of connection and empathy as cornerstones of effective leadership. Jim’s insights inspire thought on how leadership can be developed with people as the focus, and offer sound advice on what can be done to see greater success.

About Jim Carlough:

Jim is a graduate of Seton Hall University, South Orange, New Jersey, with a degree in Psychology. He is an accomplished executive with experience in the C-suite and EVP/VP with over 30 years of expertise in driving explosive growth and profitability for healthcare and healthcare technology organizations ranging from start-ups to large-scale enterprises. With a demonstrated history of success in building high-performance teams, revitalizing struggling portfolios, and leading successful M&A integrations. A strategic leader capable of energizing and transforming any organization.

Jim is also a professional public speaker and published author. Speaking has been part of his professional responsibilities for a large portion of his career.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Six Pillars of Effective Leadership: A Roadmap to Success” by Jim Carlough
• “Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage” by Alfred Lansing

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Jim Carlough

• Website: JimCarlough.com
• LinkedIn: JimCarloughMS
• Email: Jim@JimCarlough.com
• Facebook: JimCarloughMS

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In this solo episode, Sara Sheehan offers a message on unlocking the power of customized change management training, a strategic investment for CEOs. Success hinges on the ability to effectively manage business change, so investing in a private, customized version of a Mastering Change Management course is a key step for leadership teams. Sara breaks down all the ways in which customized training is an essential part of a successful transformation and details exactly how a private course would work.

There are six reasons, explained by Sara, on why a change management course is so essential for CEOS navigating complex projects. One, it is tailored specifically to suit the company investing in it. Two, it enhances leadership alignment and capability. Three, it builds organizational capacity for change, even in this era of constant disruption. Fourth, it speeds up change adoption and reduces employee resistance. Five, it’s scalable for long-term growth. And sixth, it cultivates a stronger organizational culture.

What does such a customized course look like? How is it built? Sara breaks it down into steps: 1. Initial consultation, 2. Customized content development, 3. Interactive workshops, and 4. Ongoing support. In navigating complex projects, change, and business transformation, there’s no greater toolkit to invest in than a carefully-tailored course designed to keep the leadership and team on track and engaged while key growth happens. Sara makes a compelling case for using this long-term strategy to achieve a business advantage.

About Sara Sheehan:

Sara’s professional career includes working with leaders in Fortune 100 companies and top-tier firms. She offers expert change management strategies to help businesses navigate complex transformations. Through her 25+ years of experience, she supports executives in developing change capability, in developing more leaders at more levels of the organization, and in creating high-performing teams. Sara’s knowledge spans change, organization design and effectiveness, talent development, training, marketing, business building, and business development.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• Sara Sheehan Calendly

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is R.T. Custer, co-founder and CEO of Vortic Watch Company and Colorado Watch Company. R.T. transforms antique American pocket watches into one-of-a-kind wrist watches through Vortic Watch Company, and with Colorado Watch Company, will be building the most American-made watches at scale available today. Sara talks with R.T. about how he identified his calling in converting pocket watches, surviving a crippling lawsuit early in his entrepreneurship, loyal customers, and where he’s headed next.

R.T. discusses launching on Kickstarter and shipping watches to customers a year and a half later. Vortic scaled from shipping 100 watches to 200, and R.T. realized due to how the restoration of antique pocket watches works, he would face a maximum capacity of roughly 400 watches a year. This led to the formation of his Colorado Watch Company brand to address the ability to create quality American-made watches at scale. He and Sara talk about sourcing the antique watches, the market for wrist watches, and the triumph of surviving the 2017 lawsuit that he calls the hardest thing he’s ever done.

The lessons R.T. has learned from his entrepreneurial ventures are many and varied. He shares how he learned that people want to invest in momentum and how he realized that momentum and being the visionary for his company can only come from him. Sara learns about R.T.’s Angel investing, plans for the Colorado Watch Company scaling, why R.T. feels such a connection to military service, and the intricacies of antique pocket watches. This episode is a fascinating glimpse into a very niche entrepreneurial venture that is being scaled through an additional brand without sacrificing the original vision. Sara takes listeners deep into R.T.’s inspirational journey.

About R.T. Custer:

R.T. Custer is a multi-passionate entrepreneur, speaker, and guide supporting founders through community, connection, and mentorship. As the CEO of Vortic Watch Company, the Chief Revenue Officer of Carter & Custer Agency, and the co-host of Fast Foundations Mastermind, he knows what it takes to build a successful business and drive impact. He wholeheartedly believes that you can live a life of wealth and freedom when you’re not afraid to take risks, and he uses his platform to empower founders to step into their worth.

R.T. is also deeply passionate about his work as an Angel Investor and Advisor in consumer product companies through his video podcast, “Products Worth Talking About”. He is a sought-after speaker and podcast guest, especially after launching a 2nd YouTube show called “Custer & Wolfe, Building a Watch Company” with his business partner, Tyler Wolfe, to document everything that goes into building an American manufacturing company. R.T. has proven that it is possible to enjoy life to the fullest while building wealth, and he wants to share everything he’s learned so that you can enjoy the same freedom.

Most importantly, R.T. is a partner to Lindsay Roselle and the father of two boys, Sawyer and Wesley. They live in Fort Collins, Colorado, where they run their collective 5 businesses, chase their kids and two dogs around, and spend their (minimal) free time golfing, working out, drinking whiskey, and hanging out with friends and family.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact R.T. Custer | Vortic Watch Company / Colorado Watch Company:

• Vortic Website: VorticWatches.com
• Colorado Website: ColoradoWatchCompany.com
• R.T. Custer: Website: RTCuster.com
• LinkedIn: RTCuster
• Instagram: @rtcuster

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Dr. Kerriann Greenhalgh, CEO and Chief Science Officer of KeriCure Medical. Kerriann shares the story of how she fell in love with chemistry and came to a place where she developed her own wound barrier and infection care skin spray, KeriCure. KeriCure is a revolutionary medical product and contains a nanopolymer technology that Kerriann worked to develop for topical wound care. Sara learns the history of its development and how Kerriann is using her knowledge and KeriCure to change the lives of children, adults, and pets everywhere.

When Kerriann discovered she had a natural aptitude for and enjoyment of chemistry, she obtained her PhD working in a lab focused on a nanoparticle, nanopolymer drug delivery system. While the lab focused on internal applications, Keriann focused on topical usage, and KeriCure was born. KeriCure spray is an acrylate polymer, which means it has the same elasticity and stretch as skin. It works to seal wounds, scrapes and rashes while disinfecting, reducing pain, and keeping bacterial infection at bay while the wound heals.

Sara and Kerriann discuss the varied use cases for KeriCure, from kids to sporting events to military packs, and explore both how portable the spray is and how easy it is to use. The difficulties inherent in FDA approval, marketing, online sales, and everything else entrepreneurs face are part of Kerriann’s story as well. She talks about expansion, creating a prescription-strength formula of KeriCure, as well as a pet and animal formula and what her plans are for the future of her creation. This is a fascinating look into a woman-led and created business that has a profoundly helpful impact on everyday lives.

About Dr. Kerriann Greenhalgh:

Dr. Kerriann Greenhalgh is a wife, mom and the inventor behind KeriCure Medical’s technology. Dr. Greenhalgh received her Bachelor’s in biochemistry and a PhD in organic chemistry from the University of South Florida. She was an initial member of MiMedx Inc. (later MiMedx Group) as lead of R&D and product development, and successfully submitted the company’s first 510k to the FDA for a collagen surgical mesh. Her experiences working on projects at the FDA, Homeland Security, US Army Medical Research Center, and with industry leaders, including Battelle and Constellation, have given her the insights on how to successfully develop and launch critical need products. She has been an invited reviewer for multiple NIH grant review panels, scientific journals, and is an established author and contributor to many medical and scientific journals and publications. Dr. Greenhalgh has over half a dozen patents, including many for the KeriCure technology, and is a frequent keynote and guest speaker at symposiums and conferences. Dr. Greenhalgh brings unique expertise to KeriCure as the CEO and Chief Science Officer and has dedicated her life to bringing safe, natural, and effective skin and wound care products to the world.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Dr. Kerriann Greenhalgh:

• Website: KeriCureMedical.com
• Store: KeriCure.com
• LinkedIn: kerriann-greenhalgh-548b7813

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Laura Patterson, Co-Founder and President of VisionEdge Marketing and author of “Fast-Track Your Business”. Sara and Laura discuss what prompted her to write her latest book and the themes it addresses. Laura delves into what customer-centric means to her and why it’s key to growth strategies. From software that assists companies in finding individualized success measures to what she’s learned from mistakes in business, Laura provides an insightful look into how she built her success.

One of the driving themes of Laura’s book, and her career, is the idea of being customer-centric. She uses a term called “the circle of traction” to illustrate how to create a customer and then find ways to keep them and grow their value. She and Laura talk about eliminating random acts to focus on deliberate, customer-centric approaches to business instead.

Laura shares where to source insights and data for clients, and marketing software platforms that she recommends. She weaves her customer-centric approach into all the questions that drive research; by focusing on what the customer needs, the data sourced will drive growth that is specifically tailored to creating and sustaining customers. Laura asks ‘How do we help our people grow’ when contemplating future choices in order to maintain focus on investing in people. The lessons she’s learned and advice she has to share are invaluable for any business looking to grow and foster greater customer success.

About Laura Patterson:

No newcomer to customer-centricity and its accelerators (performance management and operational excellence), Laura’s passion for customer-centricity, as the definitive growth engine, started at Motorola in the ‘90s. During her corporate career, she’s held the roles of director of customer marketing and brand strategy, customer relationship manager, customer marketing initiative lead, and customer loyalty architect.

Laura is an award-winning author. Her fourth book is Fast-Track Your Business: A Customer-Centric Approach to Accelerate Growth. She has won 12 thought leadership awards including Most Powerful Thought Leaders to Follow. Laura holds numerous marketing certifications and received a patent for her performance management software. She is also a peer-reviewed researcher and is a trusted advisor to CXOs and board members.

Growth is in her DNA. As president and co-founder of VisionEdge Marketing, Laura has helped grow 250+ companies worldwide and of all sizes. Most of her customers have been in the B2B space in these industries: technology, cybersecurity, financial services, manufacturing software, and medical devices/bioscience.

Laura is a medal-winning triathlete and brings high energy to everything she does. She lives in Austin, TX where she is Mom to Riley, a toy Aussie. She is a superfan of hummingbirds and maintains a garden to attract them. She keeps her Zen with Yoga and reenergizes with a long run.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Laura Patterson:

• Website: VisionEdgeMarketing.com
• LinkedIn: LauraPattersonVEM
• Book: “Fast-Track Your Business: A Customer-Centric Approach to Accelerate Market Growth” by Laura Patterson

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Samuel Hale, the CEO and Co-Founder of Nurish’d. Sam discusses the evolution of Nurish’d, a digital health and nutrition platform that connects users with registered dietitians and personalized meal planning, assisted by AI. Sam tells Sara about his career journey and how he originally launched as a ready-to-eat meal prep company before transitioning into Nurish’d. Sam shares how his platform now optimizes meal plans that align with users’ health profiles, dietary preferences, and wellness goals.

Sam’s entrepreneurial path demonstrates a strategic pivot from food production to healthtech innovation. His proprietary AI system automates dietary recommendations while preserving the key human element of dietitian-led consultations. His leadership in this nutrition-as-a-service model has helped expand Nurish’d from Canada into the U.S., especially in states leveraging the 1115 Medicaid waiver for medically tailored meals.

Sam’s mission is the idea that “if we eat well, we feel well.” The food as medicine movement is supported through Nurish’d, offering evidence-based nutrition plans to manage chronic illnesses such as diabetes, hypertension, and kidney disease. The platform also partners with insurance providers and telehealth integration, delivering meals and virtual care to users with covered conditions. Sam tells Sara his future goals are to expand Nurish’d’s role in preventive health, supporting food-insecure populations, and collaborating with benefits providers to make healthy eating accessible at scale.

About Samuel Hale:

In a world where diet often dictates our health, Sam Hale believes in a holistic approach, where wellness is about a sustainable lifestyle that fosters individual health and well-being. He is driven by the vision to transform our relationship with food, seeing it not just as sustenance but as a tool for longevity, illness prevention, and overall well-being.

This belief led Sam to establish Nurish'd, a platform partnering users with registered dietitians and leveraging AI to integrate personalized nutrition seamlessly into our daily lives by connecting users to healthy meals that best fit their lifestyles and goals. If we eat well, we feel well.

Through innovation and commitment, we can harness the ability to improve our health profiles, enhancing our well-being. Sam strives to create a ripple effect of health awareness, empowering individuals and organizations to make informed choices toward a healthier future.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Samuel Hale:

• Website: Nurishd.io
• LinkedIn: Samuel-Hale-94539779

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is the president and founder of Frame of Mind Coaching and Journal Engine Software, Kim Ades. Kim uses journal-based coaching in her direct coaching style with clients; she tells Sara exactly what that is and how she came to develop it. Following a life-altering divorce, Kim’s focus became helping others build emotional resilience to thrive despite challenges. She and Sara discuss how introspection and writing can reframe experiences, and how that shift can impact client success.

Kim founded Frame of Mind Coaching to empower people to focus on their thought patterns instead of external behaviours. She developed a unique journaling software to facilitate a journaling-based coaching method that helps her reflect on client writing to aid in uncovering their limiting beliefs. Through this method, Kim finds she can go past typical performance metrics to target the root of thought processes. It’s in this way that sustainable growth and emotional intelligence are unlocked.

Sara and Kim talk about the value of self-awareness and emotional clarity. This especially applies to entrepreneurs and executives who are under constant pressure. Kim’s unique coaching philosophy highlights the idea that success is truly driven by mindset more than circumstances. Kim is a pivotal voice in the world of leadership development and personal transformation. She has a proven track record in helping clients overcome adversity, and she openly shares her philosophy and insights with Sara.

About Kim Ades:

Kim Ades, MBA, is a serial entrepreneur who, after a decade running a simulation-based assessment firm, sold her company and briefly worked for a local coaching company. She left after 8 months, believing she could offer better coaching. Kim felt the prevailing coaching model was flawed, intuitively realizing that driven leaders needed to understand the link between their thoughts and outcomes rather than being “held accountable.”

In 2004, Kim founded Frame of Mind Coaching®, focusing on helping leaders maximize their potential and live fulfilling lives. She also created the Frame of Mind Coaching® Certification program to teach leaders effective coaching techniques.

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Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Great Leaders are Great Coaches course

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Kim Ades:

• Website: FrameOfMindCoaching.com
• Website: JournalEngine.com
• Email: kim@frameofmindcoaching.com
• LinkedIn
• Instagram: @coachkimades

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is AI Strategist, Digital Transformation Leader, and founder of AIboration, Nicole Hilgenkamp. Nicole discusses AI and how it is more than just an IT function; it is a transformative force in business. The new role of Chief AI Officer reflects the cross-functional nature of AI and Nicole explains why dedicated leadership is required to integrate AI across entire organizations. Ensuring that it is embraced to ensure a future-ready company is essential.

Nicole shares strategies for AI integration and recommendations on how to stay updated on AI developments through focused newsletters, by joining communities, and through experimenting with tools like Perplexity. She advocates for leaders to champion AI from the top down so a culture where employees are encouraged to use AI safely and creatively is fostered. Mindset shifts are key to using AI in the promotion of self-awareness and personal growth.

Sara and Nicole look ahead to agentic AI, which are AI systems capable of decision-making and functioning as digital team members. Such systems will change the structure of organizations and put humans in charge of overseeing AI agents in customer service or sales roles. Nicole advises that everyone upskill to avoid being left behind, and urges the adoption of AI now, being mindful of bias and data protection, and committing to lifelong learning.

About Nicole Hilgenkamp:

Nicole is a digital transformation leader with the world's largest companies, where she leads enterprise scale AI and digital transformation across global operations. She is also the founder of AIboration, an AI consulting firm that helps businesses implement generative AI.

Nicole is an optimist who believes people and technology can work better together. With a background in sociology, she has always been fascinated by how people group, interact, and adapt—whether in organizations, markets, or digital spaces.

Her work revolves around structuring chaos—helping businesses use technology to improve processes, enhance collaboration, and drive results. Nicole sees patterns in people, systems, and data, making sense of complexity and turning it into strategy.

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Resources mentioned in this episode:

• “The AI-Driven Leader: Harnessing AI to Make Faster, Smarter, Decisions” by Geoff Woods’
• The Neuron newsletter

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Nicole Hilgenkamp:

• Email: aiboration@outlook.com
• LinkedIn

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Chris Brown, Partner and CTO of Wow Remote Teams, a connection service for companies in need of virtual professional employees. Chris explains the benefits of staffing from Latin America and discusses his company’s vetting and recruitment processes with Sara. Chris believes in the positive impact nearshore staffing creates for businesses and explores how it impacts the local economy for the better.

Chris breaks down Wow Remote Teams’ sourcing process for Sara. He details the questions asked of the employers, such as what skill level and type of person they’re looking for, as well as what budget they have. While the company maintains a huge database of talent, it also turns to an outbound model and works in larger hiring networks, like LinkedIn. The process is thorough and considers many factors vital to company success.

Sara and Chris discuss creating a team culture despite every team being remote, the truly borderless global talent economy, how the prevalence of internet connections benefits everyone, and how AI and AI positions drive the market. Chris highlights how communication with remote employees differs from those in the office, but stresses how an open company culture combats the differences and facilitates flow. Chris sheds a light on how nearshore and remote services are very much the future for a lot of staffing needs.

About Chris Brown:

With 20 years of software development, business automation, and digital marketing expertise, Chris Brown proudly serves as the Partner & CTO of Wow Remote Teams. He has helped cultivate a rich technology roadmap that powers the Wow Remote recruitment processes to streamline and optimize staffing operations, guaranteeing efficiency and precision in candidate selection.

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Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Goldbelly

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Chris Brown:

• Website: WowRemoteTeams.com
• LinkedIn

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Dr. Danny Brassell, a highly sought-after speaker, trainer, coach, and author. Danny has spoken to over 3500 audiences worldwide and authored 19 books. He talks to Sara about his latest book, “Leadership Begins with Motivation” and the life journey which has brought him to his current position. Danny believes in education and his mission is to infuse joy back into education in the workplace.

Danny shares a summary of his career path going back 30 years where he started as a journalist before becoming a teacher, then a professor. He credits becoming a Christian and beginning a public speaking business on the side to avoid bankruptcy for propelling him to his present success. Danny explains how strategy and storytelling form the backbone of the company, The Well-Crafted Story Workshop, which he co-founded with Coach Jimmy Hays Nelson.

Sara and Danny dive into why a well-told story is the foundation of a great speech, what shaped a client’s journey from complete inexperience to a daily audience of 6000 people, and how to find the heart of the story being told. Danny tells three powerful stories from his book, “Leadership Begins with Motivation” and emphasizes the impact the right tale can have upon an audience. Danny praises the greatness of reading, touching on the reading engagement program he runs, and stresses that adults need to be modelling good reading for children. The episode is engaging and upbeat, driven by the positivity and motivation of Danny Brassell.

About Danny Brassell:

For nearly three decades, Dr. Danny Brassell has served as an educational advisor to students ranging from preschoolers to rocket scientists. While he has held a variety of titles and worked with leaders from a variety of fields and disciplines, Danny has always considered himself first and foremost a teacher.

A recognized authority on leadership development, motivation and communication skills, Danny has been honored consistently for his strategic intellect and practical solutions. Audiences rave about Danny’s ability to deliver meaningful and memorable messages that are applicable for individuals within all levels of organizations. A gregarious, sought-after author, speaker and business consultant, Danny is characterized by friends, colleagues and clients as one of the most insightful, powerful and compassionate individuals in business today. Thousands, from small business owners to corporate executives, have enjoyed his energetic, interactive and informative presentations.

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Resources mentioned in this episode:

• “A Game of Thrones” by George R. R. Martin
• “Living with a SEAL” by Jesse Itzler
• “The Great Gatsby” by F. Scott Fitzgerald
• “The Unselected Journals of Emma M. Lion” by Beth Brower

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Danny Brassell:

• Website: FreeStoryGuide.com
• Website: DannyBrassell.com
• Book: “Leadership Begins with Motivation” by Dr. Danny Brassell
• LinkedIn
• YouTube

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Sara Sheehan’s guest this episode is Noah Healy, the founder of Coordisc, who joins Sara to discuss his work in market design and game theory. Noah, who has a background in nuclear engineering and software development, developed a new system called Coordinated Discovery Markets (CDMs). He explains what the technology aims to do in regards to creating efficient marketplaces. His system, inspired by mathematical problem-solving, allows markets to function with much less data processing compared to traditional financial markets, and he illustrates how this makes transactions more efficient and transparent.

Noah shares the challenges he faced in bringing his innovation to market. He has been involved in a lengthy patent process, which has included legal battles with the U.S. Patent Office. Bureaucratic pushback forced him to take his case to a federal court. But despite the setbacks, he talks about how he is actively working on projects in Sweden and Kenya, exploring how his technology could be applied in emerging markets like bamboo trading and carbon credits.

Sara and Noah explore how he envisions his technology revolutionizing global markets, significantly boosting economic wealth, and finding applications in agriculture, commodities, and resource extraction. His goal is to establish new marketplaces that leverage CDMs to create more stable and fair pricing mechanisms. Noah also touched on artificial intelligence and automation, broader implications of such advances. His conversation with Sara emphasizes that technology is reshaping industries in ways that challenge traditional beliefs and that embracing these shifts carefully is key to sustainable progress.

About Noah Healy:

When Noah looks at the common thread that runs through all of his professional experiences, it is clear that he loves to combine mathematics with technology to produce game-changing solutions. His inspiration came from his formal education, work experience and the breakthrough innovations developed by Alan Turing (and Frege and Church before him). Turing imagined machines with amazing computational power and ultimately brought them to life. His innovations tipped the scales of WWII and set the stage for the information revolution – of which Noah is an active part.

Early in his career, Noah used computational mathematics and software development capabilities to develop automations that boosted internal productivity, drove client efficiencies and improved regulatory compliance. Most recently he founded Coordisc and developed CDM, a technology product that has the potential to completely reorder the global financial system. CDM establishes a better exchange market for commodities by conducting all trades at market-clearing prices with radically improved price discovery, lower total cost of transactions and the elimination of hedging needs. Only a fraction of current tradeflow can get this product off the ground and prove its power. From there, CDM can be scaled rapidly.

It is not lost on Noah that he has an enormous responsibility to produce algorithmic technology products that drive results, but also protect ethics and morality. One does not need to look beyond recent financial crises or their Facebook feeds to see that our rush for more powerful technology has eroded our civic, political, cultural and societal systems. He views himself as an “algorithmist with a conscience” and uses tools such as game theory to design products ethically.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Noah Healy | Coordisc:

• Website: coordisc.com
• LinkedIn

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Dr. Rob Lion, professor of Human Resource Development at Idaho State University and a speaker and consultant. Dr. Lion has over 20 years of experience with leadership development and improving performance. Sara and Dr. Lion talk about what his method of professional development looks like and how he works with clients in actionable ways. Rob also explains his work with athletic identities and research into transitioning athletes into workplaces with greater ease.

Dr. Lion talks about his newfound drive to embrace more peace in his everyday life through researching Daoism. He strives for greater balance in life. One of the things he discusses with Sara is how achieving more peace and self-awareness in his personal life flows into his professional work and influences it for the positive. Much of his work is in motivating people and Rob dives into how motivation works and what he needs of himself to impart it to others.

Sara and Dr. Lion’s conversation reveals how Rob got involved in his athletic research, what the impetus behind it was, and how he identified and studied the variables that could contribute to athletes struggling when transferred to workplaces. Rob details how the skills athletes possess can work for or against them if not developed correctly for the new environment. Sara explores self-awareness, leadership development, who Rob’s ideal client is, and why he convinces organizations that without doing the necessary work they’re one bad hire away from a problem. The episode is a fascinating and enlightening deep dive into Dr. Lion’s personal and professional life and drive.

About Dr. Rob Lion:

Dr. Rob Lion (pronounced “Lee-own”) is a professor of human resource development at Idaho State University and a dynamic speaker, consultant, and business owner with over 20 years of experience in workplace culture, leadership development, and performance improvement. He specializes in helping clients build human-centric, sustainable systems and initiatives that align organizational needs with employee well-being, driven by the belief that “work should fuel the human spirit, not drain it.”

As the co-founder of Black River Performance Management, Rob draws on his extensive background in human behavior, the psychology of work, opportunity recognition, and relationship development to advise business owners and executives. He has a wealth of ownership experience across industries including food and beverage, personal fitness, and business development, and has dedicated over a decade to economic growth through a community-focused lens.

Rob is recognized for crafting people-first solutions that enhance workplace culture. His approach integrates sustainable and strategic performance improvement practices, empowering individuals and organizations to build effective teams and networks. His students and clients appreciate his innovative methods and creative approaches to enhancing workplace practices.

In addition to his teaching and research, Rob collaborates with leaders to develop clarity in their planning and leading processes. He emphasizes the importance of a people strategy, recognizing that even the most robust strategic plans are merely ambitions without an adequate understanding of staff talents and organizational attributes. His evidence-based frameworks provide rigor to decision-making, addressing challenges related to data utilization, staffing, succession planning, and employee engagement.

Rob’s expertise also includes helping organizations prepare for the future, ensuring that their plans are actionable and informed by the latest research in psychological and behavioral sciences. He is committed to building robust systems that support organizational goals by leveraging existing assets and fostering open communication at all levels.

Outside of his professional pursuits, Rob enjoys travel, fly fishing, and mountain biking. His passion for empowering individuals and transforming organizations makes him a highly sought-after thought leader in his field.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Dr. Rob Lion

• Website: BlackRiverPM.com
• LinkedIn

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Tamara Myles, a professor, researcher, author, and speaker who specializes in helping people unlock the power of meaningful work. She combines research in Positive Psychology with understanding human organizational challenges to assist companies in creating a workplace full of connection and fulfilment. Tamara shares over two decades of expertise with Sara as they explore themes from her new book, “Meaningful Work”.

Tamara explains the positive benefits and importance of having meaningful work in our lives. Not only organizational benefits but personal ones like feeling more fulfilled with a greater sense of belonging. What Tamara’s research has shown is that nearly 50% of our experience of meaning at work is related to what our leaders do or don’t do. She and Sara discuss how meaningful work as imparted by leaders needs to address the Three C’s: community, contribution, and challenge.

Sara and Tamara speak to how the Three C’s offer meaning at work to each generation, explore what each one looks like in action, and highlight beautiful examples of each one in practical application. How feedback is given and what details are offered add additional meaning for the recipient, and simple things like that can have a great positive impact. Tamara explains concepts like character strengths and the findings of her research that both drive her work and inspire her upcoming co-authored book. This episode is a guide to the necessity of finding or creating meaningful work for fulfilled lives.

About Tamara Myles:

As a speaker, author, professor, and entrepreneur, Tamara specializes in blending the art and science of human flourishing with practical strategies that drive innovation, resilience, and growth. Her mission is simple: to unlock the power of meaningful work to build cultures where people feel connected, challenged, and fulfilled.

For over two decades, Tamara has worked with leaders at organizations like Microsoft, KPMG, Best Buy, and MassMutual delivering engaging workshops, keynotes, and trainings that yield measurable business results. Her work combines pioneering research in Positive Psychology with a deep understanding of organizational challenges like employee engagement, retention, and productivity.

She is also the co-author of "Meaningful Work: How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee" (April 2025, PublicAffairs). This book brings together research and actionable strategies to inspire leaders to cultivate meaningful work at every level of their organization.

At Boston College, Tamara teaches future leaders about the science of flourishing organizations, and as a researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, she continues to study how meaningful work drives performance and well-being. Her research—the first rigorous academic study of leadership practices that increase meaning at work—has been featured in Forbes, Business Insider, and USA TODAY.

She believes workplaces are the key to human flourishing. When leaders make work meaningful, they unlock potential—not just for individuals, but for entire organizations.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• VIA Character Strengths survey
• CliftonStrengths Assessment

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Tamara Myles

• Website: TamaraMyles.com
• Tamara Myles on LinkedIn
• Book: “Meaningful Work: How to Ignite Passion and Performance in Every Employee” by Wes Adams and Tamara Myles
• Book Website: MakeWorkMeaningful.com

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Barry LaBov, a two-time Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year award winner and the founder of LABOV Marketing Communications and Training. Barry LaBov shares his career journey with Sara, explaining how he learned through the jobs he held before coming to the position he’s in today. Barry’s book, The Power of Differentiation, speaks to the main focus of his company and Sara learns how Barry views every company as having a distinctiveness that sets them apart.

Barry began his career journey in music. As a rock musician who ran a jingle company, he wasn’t particularly looking for a career in marketing. He describes his business as “an accident” that was born out of necessity. He sold the jingle company and moved on to the marketing and training career he has today. He shares with Sara that the focus of his company is helping his clients find the one or two unique things they offer that none of their competitors can touch, and that’s what makes his clients, and by extension, his company successful.

Sara and Barry explore the concept of differentiation and discuss how working with the right clients is an important part of success. Barry says “Saying no should happen far more than saying yes to any client that walks up to you”. He talks about delivering a difference, how he realized that his book needed to be about improving brand differentiation, and why his book is largely about how 50 different companies transitioned from look-alike commodities to originality of appeal that launched success. This episode encourages finding the unique differences that set our businesses apart in the hearts and minds of customers.

About Barry LaBov:

Barry LaBov is the founder and CEO of LABOV Marketing Communications and Training. He is a two-time Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year recipient and an inductee into the Entrepreneur of the Year Hall of Fame. He is also a Better Business Bureau Torch Awards for Ethics recipient. Under his leadership, LABOV Marketing Communications and Training has received the Indiana Growth 100 Award six times, was named Small Business of the Year and recognized as one of the Best Places to Work in Indiana. Additionally, LABOV’s client work has been honored with nearly 100 national and regional awards.

Barry has authored or co-authored over a dozen business books, including his forthcoming book, The Power of Differentiation, which will be published by Indigo River and distributed through Simon & Schuster. In the book, he shares experiences and actionable recommendations for leaders seeking to differentiate their brands and products. He has also written over 100 business articles on a range of topics, including brand re-engineering, customer loyalty, employee engagement, training strategy, dealer/distributor network performance and much more. Barry has been interviewed as a subject matter expert on CNBC, Fox Business and in several videos and podcasts.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Power of Differentiation: Win Hearts, Minds, and Market Share” by Barry LaBov

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Barry LaBov | LABOV Marketing Communications and Training

• Website: BarryLaBov.com
• Website: LABOV.com
• LinkedIn
• Instagram

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Sara Sheehan talks about how success in business is not accidental but the result of clarity, focus, and execution. Central to this journey is the idea of setting aspirational goals. Sara explores aspirational goals through the lens of cutting-edge neuroscience and practical business strategy to uncover how our brains respond to ambitious goals and how those targets stimulate the brain’s reward system. She details the balance of how challenging and feasible the goal should be to properly motivate us.

David Rock PhD, a thought leader in neuroscience and author of “Your Brain at Work” has uncovered exactly how our brains respond to aspirational goals. Sara uses his research and her own experience to lay out the journey of crafting aspirational goals, examining both why they’re important strategically and scientifically, and how to ensure they are designed effectively. Planning makes a goal transformative, otherwise, as she states, “An aspirational goal without a roadmap is just a wish”.

In this episode, Sara walks us through the necessary steps of the journey with a smartly designed map. She explains the key points as being Aspirational Goals Beyond the Ordinary, The Strategic Advantages of Aspirational Goals, The Neuroscience of Goal Setting, Creating Your Aspirational Goals, Building the Action Plan, The Role of Coaching, and The Ripple Effect. Using her insight, aspirational goals become the concrete building blocks of a successful business.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “Your Brain at Work” by David Rock
• Dr. David Rock

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Sara Sheehan discusses the importance of conquering mindset to overcome fear and define success in today’s episode. She splits the conversation into three key parts, touching on How to Stay Driven and Motivated, Overcoming or Minimizing Fear, and Defining Success as a Leader. In each part, Sara examines why mindset is such an important component of success and how to master each step by asking important questions and paying attention to goals.

Sara shares the inspiration she drew from a continuing education course by James Garrett, called “Brain By Design” and points out that sometimes teaching can continue to reveal new insights as we revisit it over and over. How do we master dread? We confront it to get more comfortable with the thing we dread. How do we take risks? We start with the courage to put ourselves out there. Mindset determines the direction of our energy and action and Sara offers guidance on how to change and develop our mindset in new ways.

This quote from Carol Dweck sums up the episode nicely: “A growth mindset is the belief that all abilities are trainable. Nothing is fixed. That we can change anything from intelligence to creativity to athleticism through persistent and adaptive effort.” The words we need to keep in mind are mindset, consistency, commitment, courage, and success. Practice what we fear and consider success as something that grows and evolves in ways Sara highlights in this episode.

This episode is step 2 from my free ebook on my website: 7 Steps to Thrive in the New World

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• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Jeremy Fischbach, CEO of Happy, a mental health company providing frictionless, non-clinical support for people in demanding environments. Happy supports large organizations like hospitals and the Department of Defense and operates by eliminating barriers to accessing emotional support. Jeremy drew on his background in psychology and law, as well as his personal difficulties accessing mental health support, to develop Happy. He tells Sara exactly how his innovative approach prioritizes accessibility and impact.

Jeremy’s personal struggles and dissatisfaction with the time-consuming and inaccessible nature of mental health support led him to envision a system where emotional support was readily available and proactively offered. He focused on creating a frictionless system with a platform where users find emotional support without facing complicated processes. Sara explores how Happy’s model addresses a growing need among people who feel disconnected from support.

Sara and Jeremy discuss Happy’s high adoption rates and clinical-level effectiveness, the real-time emotional support offered, and how it enhances employee engagement. Despite struggles with disrupting traditional and digital mental health systems, Jeremy highlights the importance of continuing to challenge old models and assumptions. Happy’s success highlights the need for compassionate, accessible, and innovative mental health solutions that make user experience the priority.

About Jeremy Fischbach:

Jeremy Fischbach is the Founder of Happy, whose mission is to create a more supportive culture by expanding access to the essential ingredient of mental health and by teaching and inspiring people to better emotionally support each other. Prior to Happy, Jeremy was the CEO of Myne, which built interactive educational and sports analytics software that leveraged users’ psychographic data to improve performance. Jeremy has a psychology degree from Princeton and a J.D. from NYU.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Jeremy Fischbach | Happy

• Website: FrictionlessMentalHealth.com
• Jeremy Fischbach on LinkedIn
• Email Jeremy

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Sara Sheehan talks about the power of authenticity in leadership in today’s episode. Authenticity is about leading in a genuine way, with transparency and in alignment with personal values and the organization’s mission. She breaks down exactly what authentic leadership looks like and how it sets executives apart by making them trusted and effective.

Sara shares five core components that define authenticity in leadership: The Core of Authentic Leadership, Why Authentic Leaders Are More Trusted, The Competitive Advantage of Authentic Leadership, How to Cultivate Authentic Leadership, and Authenticity as a Catalyst for Change. She breaks down each core value into directive steps that examine how to incorporate it into daily leadership.

The ways in which authentic leadership improve how an executive is viewed are many, but it’s not simply a perspective change. It’s a change to the way in which an executive operates. Authentic leadership understands alignment between words and actions, it shows that vulnerability is strength, and it cultivates open and frequent communication. As Sara unpacks authentic leadership, she reveals a path to a more genuine way of leading that will effect sincere change with repercussive benefits to the organization as a whole.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Kevin Wilkins, CEO of Trepwise, a New Orleans-based strategy firm that has worked with over 550 purpose-driven organizations. Kevin talks with Sara about what life events changed his career path and why Trepwise is such an important step for him. They explore what it takes to build a sustainable business in the present day and what leaders need to know.

Kevin describes moving his family to New Orleans 4 and ½ years after Hurricane Katrina had hit after his wife got a great job offer. Once in the city, he began to look at how nonprofits had sprung up to assist New Orleans after Katrina but how despite the money flowing in, they were all vying for same funding and not many had a sustainable plan. That ultimately led him to found Trepwise. He unpacks what Trepwise is designed to do and how it functions, especially amongst the specific needs of New Orleans.

Sara and Kevin talk about the driving motivation behind Trepwise and the human-centred approach Kevin focuses on taking. He points out that not only has he learned a great deal about nonprofit business and sustainability in that format but that the work he’s doing has taught him a lot and brought him immense personal satisfaction when goals for child welfare or improvement initiatives are realized. Kevin’s passion for his work and the city he lives in is evident throughout and his vision, through Trepwise, has created a sustainable foundation for many organizations wanting to help.

About Kevin Wilkins

Kevin N. Wilkins is the Founder and CEO of Trepwise, a growth consulting firm with a mission to unlock the potential of purpose-driven organizations by aligning people, process, and vision.

Kevin moved to New Orleans in 2010 and served as Entrepreneur-in-Residence and COO for The Idea Village from 2011 – 2013. His experience working closely with entrepreneurs in the New Orleans area led him to launch Trepwise in 2013. With more than 30 years of experience in corporate and private ventures, Kevin has built a strong team of consultants at Trepwise who collectively have worked with over 500 organizations within private and public sectors, nonprofits, and foundations.

Kevin has also served on several nonprofit boards, currently for YPO Louisiana, Tulane Hillel, Institute of Mental Hygiene, City Year New Orleans, Touro Synagogue, Collegiate Academies, Jewish Federation of Greater New Orleans, The Foundation for Science and Mathematics Education, and formerly for Louisiana Children’s Museum, Pelican Bomb, Propeller: A Force for Social Innovation.

Kevin is a graduate of Dartmouth College and holds an MBA from Harvard Business School, as well as holding executive leadership positions with Procter & Gamble, Fidelity Investments, and State Street Research & Management. In addition, Kevin is a lead mentor for the national Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses Program and a mentor to startups in the Spark10 accelerator program based in India.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Kevin Wilkins | Trepwise Strategy Consulting

• Website: Trepwise.com
• Kevin Wilkins on LinkedIn

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Sara Sheehan examines how to create a positive company culture based on guidance from Daniel Coyle’s book The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups. She identifies the three fundamental skills that Coyle singles out as key to sustaining a strong organizational culture - building safety, sharing vulnerability, and establishing purpose - and discusses how each skill improves team performance when implemented.

Sara gets in-depth into how each of the three skills affects company culture for the better. Building safety allows teams to perform well because their members feel safe, connected, and supported. Sharing vulnerability may seem counterintuitive to high performance but Sara reveals that in truth it leads to deeper trust. Establishing a purpose comes through sharing a defined mission and values. Everyone should feel guided by a clear and shared understanding of why they do the work they do.

Far from being merely theoretical, Sara shares how these foundational skills would look in operation through the example of a fictional company putting them into practice. She then follows up with real-world success stories from an unnamed client of hers. Having already used these skills to guide real clients to better results, Sara’s sharing of Coyle’s book and examination of what it means in practice becomes an invaluable tool for unifying companies into a positive culture.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups” by Daniel Coyle

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Sara Sheehan focuses on change management in this episode, stressing that CEOs in today’s fast-paced business world must view change not as an exception but as an expectation. Managing the changes facing an organization, whether it be a digital transformation or a large-scale merger, is the crucial element that makes or breaks the success of the endeavour. Sara outlines why mastering change management is so vital and how to approach prioritizing that management.

Research from McKinsey & Company reveals that approximately 70% of large-scale transformation projects fail to achieve their goals and one of the primary reasons is a lack of focus on the human side of change. Effective internal change management empowers the humans of the organization to lead the change, rather than relying on external consultants. Sara explores the most critical steps in mastering change management by sharing a 9-step approach for every CEO to consider.

Speaking from expertise and knowledge, Sara names the 9 steps: 1) Establish the groundwork. 2) Secure the right resources and build the team. 3) Engage and align stakeholders. 4) Create a robust change network. 5) Assess and prep the ground. 6) Create the vision and plan messaging. 7) Mitigate business impacts. 8) Cultivate behavioral change. 9) Empower talent and execute strategy. Sara explains in detail how each step benefits an organization’s transformation and allows the CEO to build a sustainable change with minimal disruption.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Sarah Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Sid Mohasseb, the "Entrepreneur Philosopher." Sid is a twice-bestselling author of two books: 'You Are Not Them: The Authentic Entrepreneur's Way,' and The Caterpillar's Edge: Evolve, Evolve Again and Thrive in Business.' He is also a university professor at both engineering and business schools. A two-time TED speaker, an advisor to Fortune 500 leaders, and an innovation thought leader who has built multiple companies and invested in many more.

Sid and Sarah Sheehan explore and discuss many interesting mindset issues facing entrepreneurs today, both in business and in life in general. Using the analogy of a caterpillar's transformation into a butterfly, Sid illustrates how gradual evolution is the key to personal and professional growth—change doesn’t happen overnight. Sid also explores the employer-employee relationship and the novel approach called the "whole life balance", where understanding the reasons behind employees' decisions takes precedence over a narrow focus on outcomes. His insights highlight how the mindset shapes how we define success, approach risks, and navigate leadership challenges. Sara Sheehan and Sid also emphasize the importance of self-awareness, trust, and listening as foundations for success in all areas of life.

Sid also shares his plans to launch an academy aimed at fostering personal development and entrepreneurial growth. This new venture will feature short videos on topics like fear, resilience, and finding one's reasons, designed to provoke thought and inspire continuous improvement. Sid invites listeners to join him on this journey of transformation and to stay connected for future updates on the academy’s progress.

About Sid Mohasseb

From a very young age, Sid learned not to leave change to chance. At 7, he learned to be self-sufficient in treating the genetic blood disorder (Hemophilia) he suffered from. At 14, he learned to balance intellect and humility and published his first book of poetry. At 16, he convinced his parents that his future must be shaped in America and migrated to the US without his family. Working through engineering school, he learned that self-sufficiency begins with selflessness; to succeed one must be able to continually deliver value to friends, family and society.

Embracing his entrepreneurial talents, at 21, Sid started and exited his first company while at college. Pursuing his curiosity about the purpose of life, he explored various spiritual and philosophical schools of thought. At 25, he taught comparative Eastern and Western philosophy. Sid’s professional career was built on being a trusted advisor. At 27, he became the youngest partner of a national management consulting firm serving Fortune 500 clients.

Early in his career, Sid realized that trust, flexibility, agility and authenticity are the cornerstones of progress. During the next three decades, he supported large-scale acquisitions, and acted as the principal investor and operator in company turnarounds. As a serial entrepreneur, Sid founded and led several early-stage and hyper-growth companies from inception to acquisition. Many times over, he shouldered the responsibility for meeting payroll and wrote checks to acquire or invest in companies; learning to think both like an investor and a founder; facing, accepting, and overcoming his share of failures and successes in ideas and ventures. Along the way, Sid learned that the wounds of failures are the pathways to our next best version.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• You Are Not Them: The Authentic Entrepreneur's Way by Sid Mohasseb
• The Caterpillar’s Edge by Sid Mohasseb
• “From Reason to Profit” Forbes Article by Sid Mohasseb

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Contact Sarah Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Sid Mohasseb | The Entrepreneur Philosopher:

• Website: caterpillaredge.com
• Instagram: SidMohasseb
• X: SidMohasseb
• Linkedin: Sid Mohasseb

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there. I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm joined by Sid Mohasseb, who is known as the Entrepreneur Philosopher. Sid is a twice bestselling author of two books: 'You Are Not Them: The Authentic Entrepreneur's Way', and The Caterpillar's Edge: Evolve, Evolve Again and Thrive in Business'. He is a university professor at both engineering and business schools. A two time TED speaker, an advisor to Fortune 500 leaders, and an innovation thought leader who has built multiple companies and invested in many more. He is a frequent contributor to Forbes, Time, Newsweek, USA Today, Fox, Independent, Foreign Policy, Globe, London School of Economics and Harvard Business Review. Thank you so much, Sid, for joining me today and being willing to invest your valuable time in a fruitful discussion.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:01:19] I'm happy to be here, and I'm happy to also thank the folks that are going to be listening to us to have invested their time in listening to both of us.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:30] Excellent. And so, Sid, where I'd like to start today is with your book, 'You are Not Them: The Authentic Entrepreneurs Way'. Such an interesting read. One of the most important things to do in exploring the book is to create your personal entrepreneurship philosophy and have a self-aware, growth oriented mindset, like a sculptor that's shaping a great work of art in yourself. Mindset really is key in all we do in business and in life. Can you tell me, Sid, how has mindset helped you create your businesses?

Sid Mohasseb: [00:02:21] Sara, what we don't realize when we're doing what we're doing is that it is really our mindset that's directing us. We often think it may be the environment, the situation, the education, luck, but it's truly on the back. What drives us, what positions us to be successful or to accomplish things is how we think about things. What do we define as success? What do we define as satisfaction? How do we look at risk? How do we look at building an ecosystem that involves others? All of those things. How do we lead? How do we follow? How do we create trust? All of those things are part of our mindset and our approach to things. And while we're not necessarily aware of it, we are applying our mindset and the way we think and the way we look at ourselves and our future and what we can accomplish or what we cannot accomplish is involved in our progress. A few things become important. For example, if I believe that I can be LeBron James and I'm five foot three, that is a foolish belief. I cannot. I'm not tall enough, I'm not strong enough, I'm not young enough. So when we talk about mindset and how it helps us evolve is, one of the elements is being anchored in reality.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:03:58] That doesn't mean that I can't own a basketball team. It doesn't mean that I can't have enough money to bring in LeBron James to sit in my living room or play in my court back there. We can, it just doesn't mean that I can accomplish things that are not accomplishable. So the mindset that we talk about is based on an analysis of the realities of life, the probabilities of success, and our ability to evolve. I use the analogy of caterpillars a lot because they turn into butterflies. Now, if a caterpillar thinks that, first of all, it can sleep overnight and, boom, it's going to be a butterfly, it doesn't happen. Some caterpillars, it takes 14 years for them to become, in the amazon and some part of the world, usually they go through 4 or 5 stages of growth to become what it is. So if I am a caterpillar and I imagine that, first, overnight I can become a butterfly, it's a foolish thing for me to believe. Second, if I think that I can sleep and tomorrow morning I'll be a racehorse or I'll be an eagle, that's also foolish to believe. We evolve in certain ways, in mindset, in actions and structure. And that's what makes us, as you mentioned, the sculptor and the sculpture. We are both the art and the artist. And none of us are without flaw. So the idea of an artist is, sometimes you draw something, it just doesn't look good. So it's okay. We sculpt something and it's our next best version that we thought. It may not be the best version, there's always a better version. So we're always in this pursuit of creating the next best version of ourselves.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:06] If you're willing to sharpen the saw and continue to refine that work of art.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:06:12] And that doesn't mean that the previous art was bad. This is not an admission of guilt. We are exploring. We are an artist. We draw things, we sculpt things, and as we do it, sometimes it's a little bit crooked and we fix it. And sometimes that crookedness becomes part of who we are. And that's the beauty of it. That's what makes us, us. Those are the things that makes us unique. The key is, if you are aware that it is your mindset that drives you places, now a lot more things are in your control.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:53] Being self-aware is the first step, because if you realize how you're interacting and affecting others, you can fine tune what you're doing.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:07:07] You can, it's in your control. I use an analogy, I'll say, hey, if you take two points, any two points, and you draw a line from point A to point B, mathematically, between these two points, there are infinite points. If you draw a line, on this line there are infinite points. Now, if I move the lines and I say, okay, here's A, here's B, let's have a point C in between, there's still infinite lines between A and C, and C and B. If you take those A and B points, and you say that's the time we're born and that's the time we die, there are infinite points in between. At any point, 8 years old, 18 years old, or 80 years old, we have an equal number of instances behind us, infinite, than we have ahead of us, infinite. And each one of those allows us to make a decision to change, to evolve, to take a path. Now, our options may be different, but there are infinite options. There are infinite instances at any given time, at any age, in front of us, that we can make a choice. We are the artist that can, at any given point, change the direction of their art. You don't like classic? Go a different direction. You're completely in charge. There is nothing stopping us from being who we can be.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:40] That is absolutely beautiful, Sid. I'd like to pivot, if we can, from talking about 'You Are Not Them', to chat about the concept of 'From Reason to Profit', which you've written about this concept, particularly in an article that I read on The Hill. There's an excerpt from the article that I would like to ground our conversation on before I pose a question, if I may. "By focusing on reasons, motivations and causes that lead to consequences, effects, and eventually profits, businesses shift their focus from controlling outcomes to aligning with world class talent and opportunities. They learn to embrace the give and take of value exchanges and understand the nuances each relationship requires. Sid also proposes that we should ditch the concept of work-life balance, and embrace whole life balance, in recognition of the great importance employees have on an enterprise's success." Sid, can you elaborate on the reason to profit framework and why whole life balance is so very important today?

Sid Mohasseb: [00:10:05] The the article you're referring to is focused on one of the five pillars, which is the employees. The other four pillars that hold up an organization, any organization, are customers, partners, investors, and society. And the fifth one is the employees. Each one of those pillars involve people, and they make decisions based on the exchange that they receive. Somebody makes an investment in a situation, it may be because they like the owner, it may be they like the cause. Maybe they like the dividends, or maybe they like that it has the opportunity of giving them ten x money. A partner, a supply chain place, works with the company because they think you pay on time, because they think that you give them enough business, because they like you, because they're the same affiliation politically as you are. They give you the stuff because your brand is important, they can put it on their sign. The same thing happens to customers. Customers actually make the decision of buying things from you. We are fooled to think, as companies, that we sell. In reality, they buy. As a company, we have zero decision. Zero. No decision at all in a purchase. So if we have no decision, we are not generating revenue. They are generating revenue. We are not generating, they are giving us revenue. So what that means is, it's the decision that they make that drives an outcome which is our revenue. So the thing to focus on, is their decision. The same thing happens with employees and it's often ignored. Companies believe that they give people a job. Here's $100,000. Here's $80,000. Here's $27.50 an hour, something. And here's your job, you clean this and that, you quote this and that, you manage these five people, there's a job description.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:12:19] The assumption is that we have made a pack, but the employee who accepts that $100,000 or $50,000, or whatever the number and job description is, in their mind, have a series of reasonings for accepting that. 'Rent is due.' 'I want to move to California and this gives me the opportunity to do that.' 'Oh, they have options, maybe the options would turn out to be something interesting.' 'This is a good company to have on my resume.' 'They have good benefits and I have a son who is sick.' They, in their mind, accept what that employment term is based on their reasonings, not based on our reasoning. They never said, 'I'm going to bring my best creativity and innovation to the table at 3:00 in the morning.' We may accept that. We may expect it as an employer, but that's not why they did it. They did it based on their own terms. The idea is that there are decisions outside of a company's control that are really driving the revenue and the profit that the company makes. They are driving the innovation within the company. They're driving the revenue and the profit that comes in. Every ask, they're driving the quality of the company because of the supply chain folks. They're driving how they can get more investments and grow the company. It is the reasons that drive our success. So the idea is, we need to focus on those reasons. When you focus on revenue and profit, you're focusing on an outcome that happens in a quarter. You're not focusing on what drives that profit or revenue. It is the cause that we have to focus on, not the effect. If the decision of revenue, if the decision of creativity, productivity is in the hands of the employee, we can measure that they were not productive at the end of a quarter, but then that's an outcome. We're not focusing on the reason that drives that outcome. And if we focus on the reasons, we would be able to do a much better job. That actually drives what our culture may be. We can't satisfy everybody's reasons. So we are able to drive, we are able to satisfy certain types of people with the certain types of reasons. This is a place good for people who look for stability and benefits. This is a place where people who are looking for massive growth through options. If we can harmonize those kind of reasons by people, we then automatically have a culture of people that think alike.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:12] That's right. Whole life balance, for you, it sounds like you're really taking your employees' desires and wants into consideration, and you are motivating everyone to be part of the results and outcomes equation.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:15:37] Let me correct a few things, by the way. I want to go back to your pivot comment that you made, because that's a pet peeve of mine. Let's look at this. I am not motivating anybody. They are motivating themselves because of who they are. This notion that I am empowering people to do something, I am not. Who am I to have the power? They have the entire creativity power. It's in their mind. It's in their ability. I just have to, as a company, facilitate their growth. The notion that the company drives innovation, the company doesn't. There is one thing that people say, 'you have to belong to the company.' That's how the culture is built. Have a sense of belonging. You can't belong to a company, the company has to belong to a series of people. And that puts the power of creativity and innovation where it belongs, which is in the hands of the people who are creative, who at 3:00 in the morning, get up, think of things, do things, believe things, drive things, accomplish things. The notion that we believe as a company is something that's been driven to us because we look at profits at the end of the year, and Wall Street has pushed that to us. That's nonsense. If you look at all great companies, they were built on people being creative. Here's the other thing. Let's talk about this whole-life and balanced life. By saying that I have to have balance, you are saying that these are two equal part things, and you're telling me that I, at home, I am a different person, than I am at work. So you're actually promoting bipolar behavior? I've got to be this at home, and I've got to be this at work, and I'm two different people? Nonsense. I'm the same person. I'm as much creative when I'm having breakfast at home, that I could be thinking about my wife having a problem when I'm at work?

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:47] That's very fair.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:17:50] I am one person. And if you force me, and you say there's equal parts to my life, that's nonsense. What I have to do is look at it as a harmonized process. If I don't like what I'm doing, let's search for something that I belong to and I like to do it. It's like, let's have people not pass red lights when they're driving. So as opposed to having people not pass red lights and we create a culture of people not passing red lights, we're putting a cop on every corner to catch them. We're saying, hey, let's have a work-life balance. This is this and this is this because people can't harmonize. Well, let's create an environment where they can harmonize and they're much better at what they would do. We work to exchange what we do to have our kids happy. So now, let's keep the kids away, and this is what I do over here. And this is what happens after 20 years, they say, hey, I haven't seen my father because they didn't know what their father was doing, because they were balancing and separating the pieces of life. We are one person, every one of us. Part of us is work, part of us is home, part of us is our parents, part of us is our failure, part of us is accomplishments. All of that makes us, us. Not the outcome. Success isn't that I had two homes or three of these or four of these. That's a nonsensical thing that we have developed, that's been embedded in us. That success. Success is a social defined element. What is important is satisfaction. Satisfaction is when you and I are satisfied.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:42] And it's the process.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:19:44] Success is when somebody says, do you have a PhD? Then you're successful. Do you have $1 million? $2 million? Do you live on this street? Do you have a Louis Vuitton bag? Do you have a Mercedes Benz? Then they define your success. They are defining your success. But satisfaction is what you feel, what you create, what you build.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:03] So you are focusing on the process by which people are engaging, in being creative, and not compartmentalizing that, and looking at your entire life as a canvas and trying to create the scenario where the any employee can be their most productive because they choose to, and the company then reaps benefits from them.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:20:44] They choose to be productive. It's not mandatory. It's not, I've chosen. We've created. We've hired based on their reason. And yeah, we can't hire anybody and everybody because then we don't have a culture. A culture is built after a group of people come together that are like-minded, and when they're like-minded they have this cohesiveness and they create things and they build things. So we can't get a bunch of people because we put a statement on top of the door, or the CEO emailed something, or we have a 4th of July barbecue that makes us cohesive and have the same vision, mission and culture. It doesn't work. It's nonsensical change management stuff.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:34] I understand where you're headed, though. You're headed in a direction that no one is really talking about this from. That when you're thinking about the whole-life and you're thinking about what your self-aware, growth oriented mindset is, you're going to be a much more productive person in general. And so I think that's a very deep and valuable lesson learned.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:22:08] And you think that's an unreasonable place to go?

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:11] No, I don't. I think it's a great place to go.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:22:14] It is what we're built for.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:16] It's a great place to go. And I think with having a growth oriented mindset in general is the only way I can manage life, because that's the way I think. I always want to be improving and growing.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:22:39] And sometimes we make mistakes. Because whatever we do helps in our growth. It doesn't mean that whatever we do, the outcome is better than what we had before. It may not. As an artist, I put a little yellow over here and I thought it would be good, but it's not good. Okay, so I change it. I mix it up with red and I get blue. It's okay. We're not expected to have created perfection every time.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:09] That's right.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:23:11] Now, there's one thing you mentioned. There is a section in the book that you mentioned, that deals with this notion of pivoting. You said 'let's pivot to a different discussion.' A lot of people use pivot in their businesses and companies and what they do. I am super against pivoting. Let me explain. Pivot is when you hit a dead end, and then you make a right turn or a left turn. We have to be a dancer. That is, a dancer plays with the rhythm of the music, sometimes choreographed, sometimes improvised. If you look at the timing of change, you don't wait until you hit a block and then you pivot. If you're reading the market, you don't let your ego drive you. By the time you are at the end of the road and have to pivot, your resources are depleted. Your time to market has been changed. The fact that you are pivoting means that you are bull headed, you're not accepting, you're not listening. You don't see the timing of the market, you don't see the value. You're just saying, it's either me or death. If you don't fear, that means you're not really evolving. If you're not nervous, you're doing exactly what-and if you say, I am fearless, I don't have any fear in doing this, you're ignoring the dangers ahead, and that's not a good thing. That's being bullheaded, that is nonsensical. Oh, he is fearless, you should have no fear. No, you should have fear. You just should learn how to deal with it. Because fear is signals that there is something, not necessarily, and I need to know, okay, this is a winding road. There's dangers and I should be aware of it, be fearful of it, and then push through it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:18] And so, Sid, you're speaking to developing courage through fear by listening and being self-aware. That's beautiful. I think that we all need to listen more and be self-aware so that we can make great choices.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:25:41] Listening is, I think, key. And what I found, and I tell this to my wife, she says, oh, there you go again. What I found is, most people don't listen. They hear, they don't listen. They're planning on their response. Here's the thing, this is a fact. If you don't listen, not to me, to everything and everybody. To the guy who's pumping the gas, to the guy who's at the gas station 7-Eleven store, to your teachers, to your boss, to your colleagues. If you're not listening, you are ignoring the knowledge that could be added to you, some things. So whatever decision you make next is compromised because it is the knowledge that you have that improves your decision. By not listening, you are simply compromising your future decisions because you have less than enough knowledge. You are making a decision based on a historical set of knowledge that you had a year ago or two years ago, not what happened today.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:56] Yes, and I think we have a major issue on listening. There are a lot of people that are not listening, and there are a lot of people that don't know how to take new information and assimilate it into their next best action.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:27:18] And it's partly a culture of how-to, it's a culture of combativeness. It's a culture of embedding in the past, it's the culture of 'my way or the highway'. It's this notion that an entrepreneur or a leader should be strong and bullheaded. It's a combination of things that has led us to not be receptive, not accepting. The article you refer to on Hill, originally when it came out, at 8:00 in the morning, I believe California time or something like that, 5:00 California time, 8:00 eastern time. I looked at it because I get these Google notices that you've been published somewhere. So I get it, and I clicked on it, and I went there. There's 352 comments on it in three hours.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:12] That's impressive.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:28:14] I said, ooh, look at me. People actually care. And then I read the comments. Only out of the 350 comments, only two people had actually read the article. Only two. The rest of them were on this gobbledygook conversation. They've read the title and they've gone on to their own argument. They didn't even read what I wrote.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:39] That just proves exactly what I said to a tee, Sid. Let's talk a little bit about what lessons you've learned in building and scaling your four businesses.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:28:54] Lessons that I've learned, I think some of them, is quite obvious in the way I think. Listening is important. Trust is hugely important. Trust is earned, and there is a three-way trust. First, I have to trust in myself, then I have to trust in my employees, then they would give me their trust. I can't expect their trust before I give them my trust. When you do that, that creates a compounding effect of benefits. That trust leads you to, for people to do things, to accomplish things, for investors to believe in you, for markets to believe in you. The self-trust goes back to having being grounded in what reality is. There's another element which is the element of, I have learned that certainty is a foolish game. There is no certainty, everything is probabilistic. Certainty does not exist. If you go to companies, they have a 'here's a best case and worst case.' No, there's a shade of gray in between. And it has to do with what we do and the decisions we make. Life is probabilistic. The more I understand the probabilities and the options, the better my decisions would be. So don't look at life as a probabilistic, as a certain outcome driven. I can't sit here with the knowledge that-let's do this. A lot of people have these vision boards, and they put that together when they're 24 years old or 18 or 30. I don't trust the 18 year old of me to be creating a vision for me. That 18 year old was naive.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:50] Yes, you definitely grow and change quite a bit over time.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:30:54] So the thing that I believe, the knowledge that I had at a certain point, I have the right to change my mind. At 18 I wanted to be a gold medalist or whatever, that was foolish. Now I know I can't, and that's not a failure. That's not changing my goal. That's just adjusting based on what I see as a better alternative. Now, some people stick to that and they say it's either that or nothing, and if I don't do it, it's failure. No, it's not failure.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:26] And that definitely mirrors your thoughts about self-awareness, growth oriented mindset, you're continuing to refine what that vision is for your life based on your goals and aspirations at that time.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:31:43] And you have the ability and every right to change your goals. Now, there is there is something, though. I know your program is about transformational minds. People confuse transformation, as I mentioned like the caterpillar and the butterfly, with instantaneous achievement. Transformation takes time. It's assumed that transformation is somehow outside of some level that we can think, outside of the box. The box is an imaginary line you and I create. There is no box. Where is the box? The box is wherever I'm afraid of thinking about something, then I call it the box because I don't want to say, oh, think outside of the box. Which box? Who drew this box? There is no box. It's an imaginary line that we have to go above it or below it. I've said about, you're able to change your vision, you're able to change your goals, but I want to emphasize on this. A caterpillar stays the course over stages and stages of growth and change in order to become a butterfly. If you become fascinated by change and every shiny new object that comes to you, you will never transform into the next being because you're not committed to the path. If you plant a seed, you have to water the seed and you have to give it the fertilization that it needs, and you have to make sure it gets enough sun to grow, and you have to take care of it. We're not saying that this is your only flower that you can grow. You can grow other flowers. But if you leave this one and all of a sudden are fascinated by some other thing, this will die.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:58] And so, Sid, you're saying that we all need to make sure that we're continuing on the right path so that we transform the way we're supposed to.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:34:11] The way we want to. In the interest of change, you can't be tempted by the devil that the change offers you. The devil is the shiny new object. There's always a lot of things to do. Without change, there wouldn't be any options. Change provides you infinite options. And hey, if there wasn't change, everything would be so boring, would be exactly the same, there wouldn't be any progress. So change provides you with this ability to choose between options. But if you get dazed and confused with the devil that the change offers you, which is all these shiny new objects, and you jump from this thing to that thing, to that thing, to that thing because you think you're transforming, you're just confusing yourself.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:57] Right, and you're not actually making progress.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:35:01] And you're actually not making progress. And you say, well, I saw an opportunity, I jumped on it. I see entrepreneurs today, they're doing this, oh, there's a better thing over there. They go buy this software and before it produces anything there is a better software. So they abandoned this one and go to the next one and then, oh, there's a better way of doing this. Oh, I don't know why we don't make any progress, these people are idiots. No, the people are not idiots. We're just changing for the sake of change. Not for the sake of creating the next best version of ourselves.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:35] And that is a very valuable point. We need to keep our eye on the ball so that we are transforming and growing each and every day. And so, Sid, what big goals and aspirations are you working on accomplishing right now?

Sid Mohasseb: [00:35:50] Big goals and aspirations. I'm going to tell you something that, frankly, it's been between me and a couple of a couple of people, including my wife, brainstorming. We'll get there. I'm thinking about creating what I call an Academy, where we would have a series of maybe 4 or 5 minute videos that belong to a collection. A collection maybe around fear, around resilience, around reasons, and build a community of members and people. Could be students, could be people who are in startup mode or could be managers and so forth. One thing that you have to understand is my view of entrepreneurship. I believe we are all entrepreneurs and it is in our genes. 500,000 years ago, a gene was developed in us to thrive. Not survive, thrive. To look for something better. The definition of an entrepreneur is someone who has something and likes to exchange it with something of higher value, has something, and wants to exchange it with something of higher value, knowing that there is risk. Now, the 'something' is not defined. It could be your ideas, it could be your time, it could be a product, it could be a service, it could be anything. And what you exchange is of higher value, the higher value is also your decision. Are you curing cancer? Are you solving poverty? Or you want to be Elon Musk and have a lot of money? That's your choice, and knowing that there is a risk. With that mentality, we are all entrepreneurs, wherever we are. If you have a job somewhere, you're an entrepreneur. Because you want to get a better job, you want to excel, you want to exchange what you have with something better. Or, you get that $22, $27 or $127 an hour and you take it home and you take your kids to Disneyland, and you're exchanging your time for something of higher value, which is the happiness of your kids.

Sara Sheehan: [00:38:06] I think that could be of tremendous value. You're talking about an academy that essentially would provide key learning opportunities around personal development and transformation. That's amazing.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:38:25] And it's quick. It's examples, just like what we're talking about in terms of, let's get to the roots. What is this nonsense about big words and making life complicated to prove to people that you're smart and all this stuff. Life is pretty simple if you think about simple ways of approaching it. Trust is trust. We all know what it is. Listening is easy.

Sara Sheehan: [00:38:53] It is the hard stuff, though, too. It's easy but it's hard, too.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:39:01] It is hard, but they are not hard ideas or concepts.

Sara Sheehan: [00:39:04] No, they are not. It's hard for people to practice them, I think. I think that's where the struggle might be.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:39:13] The other thing that I've been thinking about, this academy thing, is we are filled with ideas and things that have to do with how-tos. We are bombarded with how to do this and how to do that. Life is like Ikea, you go buy a bookcase and then they say how to put screw number 17 into hole number 72. That's not life. Life is filled with all sorts of different things. So my notion of this is, this is not a how-to thing. I just want to provoke you, you can find the how-tos.

Sara Sheehan: [00:39:50] You're trying to get people to refine the way they think, and that is priceless because I don't think enough people are doing that in the world.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:40:04] That's the thing. And if in your audience anybody is interested, drop me an email when we get it up and running. It would be in a few months, it's not tomorrow. If I don't derail off of it, it would happen and I'd be happy to include them in the process.

Sara Sheehan: [00:40:20] Fantastic, Sid. Maybe we can stay in touch about how things are going and maybe I could provide an update to my audience about your academy and how they might be able to explore it. Sid, can you tell me what being a transformational thinker means to you?

Sid Mohasseb: [00:40:42] I think we talked about it a little before. Transformational thinker is somebody who is not satisfied with their past version. They were satisfied, but they believe that there is more satisfaction in evolving that and being more satisfied. I'm saying, they are not unhappy with who they were before because they built it. Remember, every version that we build, it's our art. Every artist loves his or her own art. We make it, so we love it. But we also know that there is more in us. So a transformational thinker believes that there is more in us. More to build, more to create, more to give.

Sara Sheehan: [00:41:35] That is beautiful. There is more to become, for sure.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:41:44] There is more to become.

Sara Sheehan: [00:41:45] That is so beautiful, Sid. And so, Sid, how would our listeners find you?

Sid Mohasseb: [00:41:52] My name is Sid Mohasseb, and my email is sid@mohasseb.com. Very simple. And they can find, as you mentioned, I have lots and lots of articles all over the place. Yes, you can blame that I am old and opinionated, I do express my opinions in a lot of different places and it's easy to find me if you Google me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:22] Well, I can't thank you enough for your time today and illuminating the concept of, maybe there's more work that we have to do on ourselves, and we need to continue to think about where our mindset is and how we can improve it each and every day. Thank you so much.

Sid Mohasseb: [00:42:45] Great to be with you, thank you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:47] Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today we were joined by the visionary Sid Mohasseb, who's known as the entrepreneur philosopher, and brings his vast experience as a best selling author, TED speaker, professor, and advisor to Fortune 500 leaders. Key takeaways from our discussion today include: the crucial role of mindset in defining success and satisfaction, the power of self-awareness and continuous evolution, embracing a whole-life balance over the traditional work life dichotomy, and finally viewing life as an artist's canvas filled with infinite possibilities. Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or looking to ignite your inner innovator, this episode is packed with insights to inspire and challenge your thinking. As always, please subscribe and never miss an episode, and I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is CEO of Diversity in Luxury, Luxury Weekly News Podcast and Elizabeth's Cake Emporium, Elizabeth Solaru. Elizabeth is a luxury business consultant, author, and a world-renowned cake artist. Her clientele is high-end and royal now but she didn’t start in luxury, she started as a microbiologist and headhunter. Sara Sheehan learns all about how Elizabeth started her companies, found such wealthy clients, and the advice she offers in her new book, The LUXPreneur.

While working as a headhunter, Elizabeth relieved stress by reconnecting with her early love of baking and indulging in cake-making as a side hustle. When business in London collapsed in 2008, she decided to launch her luxury cake business instead of going back to headhunting. It was through cold-calling that she connected with a planner who worked for the late Queen Elizabeth, and the Queen became Elizabeth’s first high-end order. How Elizabeth built from that first order and scaled out into celebrities, other royals, and high-end brands, is her story of hard work, determination, and taking the lessons learned along the way to heart.

Sara Sheehan and Elizabeth Solaru discuss creative ways to scale businesses and why every entrepreneur needs a financial planner they trust deeply. Elizabeth shares the five pillars of building a business brand that she writes extensively about in her book: storytelling, perception, customer experience, having an incredible product, and vision. She speaks on the importance of diversity, specifically diversity in luxury, and how writing her book has prompted her to dream about something big to do with books in the future. Sara Sheehan’s talk with Elizabeth Solaru is a fascinating glimpse into how luxury brands work, how to reach them, and practical advice that business owners need to know.

About Elizabeth Solaru:

Elizabeth started her first multi-award winning business with a secondhand mixer and £40 in the bank. Over the years, through creativity and sheer hard work, she built it up into a world-renowned business brand called ELIZABETH'S CAKE EMPORIUM.

She serves Ultra High Networth Individuals (UHNWI) and royal families in a world of discretion, confidentiality, press embargos, and Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs).

Elizabeth has also collaborated with many luxury brands including Harrods, Oscar de la Renta, and Fendi. She has been called a pioneer in the industry, and her work has appeared in Vogue, Tatler, HELLO!, Martha Stewart, Wedluxe, and The Telegraph.

There have also been personal appearances on the BBC, Sky Living’s “Who’d be a Billionaire” and she has consulted on films such as Sony Columbia’s “My Best Friend’s Wedding.”

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Elizabeth Solaru:

• Website: ElizabethSolaru.com
• Website: LuxuryBusinessEmporium.com
• Elizabeth Solaru on LinkedIn
• “The LUXPreneur: How to start and build a successful luxury brand” by Elizabeth Solaru

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm joined by Elizabeth Solaru, CEO of Diversity in Luxury. Luxury Weekly News Podcast and Elizabeth's Cake Emporium. Everything about Elizabeth's expertise focuses on scaling businesses for the luxury market. She is an award-winning luxury business consultant, author, and world-renowned cake artist. As an expert microbiologist and headhunter, she began her luxury business journey as a celebrated cake artist, earning international acclaim for innovative designs and practical craftsmanship. Her clientele includes ultra-high-net-worth individuals and royalty. Her creative talent and business acumen led to a successful transition into luxury consulting, where she now advises brands on how to navigate the complexities of the luxury market. Her latest book, 'The Luxpreneur: How to Start and Build a Successful Luxury Brand' has been described as a blueprint for a luxury business and a must-read for those interested in working in the luxury industry. Elizabeth, I am so glad to welcome you to my podcast today.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:01:32] Thank you Sara. I'm really excited to be here.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:36] Excellent, excellent. And so, Elizabeth, you have a really interesting focus, and I love the cake part as well. I want to make sure I comment on that because that is such a fine art in today's world. First of all, Elizabeth, I would like to hear a little bit about your backstory and what led you to where you are today.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:02:05] Thank you, Sara. A little bit about me, I'm an ex-microbiologist, and I then went on to become a headhunter in the city, I remember working as a headhunter and then 18-hour days, very stressful. So to relieve stress, I started baking again. I'd always baked as a child, but I kind of dropped it over the years. So I started baking again, and my colleagues would make amazing comments about my cakes. And it was just something I did as a side hustle, but the one thing I did do though is, I remember I'd save up my money and come on holiday to America. One of the best chocolate schools is actually in Florida and run by Ewald Notter, and he used to do so many classes, and I'll come and I'll just take classes, take classes. So that went on for a while. And then 2008, the City of London kind of collapsed. We know what happened around the world. And then I lost my job and I got to a milestone birthday, and I said to myself, if I don't do it now, I'll never do it. So I decided to set up my cake company, and in order to get clients, I reverted back to what I usually did when I was a headhunter, which was make 100 cold calls a week. So I took the Yellow Pages, in those days Google wasn't much of a thing. So I took the yellow pages, and then I called every planner in the yellow pages and one particular planner, the one that changed my life and moved me into the luxury business, happened to be the Queen's cousin. So that's the late Queen Elizabeth. It was her cousin.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:03:55] Her name was also Elizabeth, and I'm an Elizabeth. So I just said to her, I'm going to be in your area in the next few days, I'm happy to drop some samples. I dropped the samples and before I even got home, I got a call back to say, Lady Elizabeth would like to speak with you. And that's how I got my first high-end order. So again, I did cakes for many years. I was able to do cakes for ultra-high net worth celebrities, flown out around the world. And then the pandemic hit. And when the pandemic hit, over the years, I've been asked to speak at several conferences and I just talk about the luxury world because those were my clients, and I assumed that everyone knew what I knew. And then during the pandemic, I gave so many talks online, and that kind of started the journey into becoming a luxury business consultant because many companies, especially small businesses, they wanted to know what to do. And I started giving advice and that began the other stage of my journey.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:09] That is so very exciting. I love, love, love that your experience started with a royal client. That is just fabulous. Isn't that exciting? I can only imagine how exciting that day was.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:05:29] Oh, absolutely. And thankfully I didn't realize the implications right away. Thankfully, that came gradually because it wasn't just the fact that she was a royal connection, it was the kind of person she was. She was extremely kind. She was one of the most hard-working women because she was the very first official party planner in the UK. She started her business in the 60s organizing debutante balls, and she was a person of integrity. And she gave me this amazing testimonial, which she didn't have to, but it was a written testimonial. And she said to me, Elizabeth, you can use this in all your marketing. And that generosity, even nowadays is very rare. So I owe her a lot.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:23] Yes. You cannot overestimate or underestimate the value of a wonderful testimonial and quote for sure. Having that kind of social proof absolutely propels business and is wonderful to have in marketing. And so, Elizabeth, share with me what lessons have you learned from building and scaling your business?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:06:49] I've learned so many lessons, in particular from failure. The first lesson that I learned was not going into things blind. So you need to get all your information together. You need to have what I call scenario planning. And also, another lesson I learned is that things take twice as long as you want them to take. You project 6 months, but the 6 months could be 18 months because there's always going to be bumps in the road, unforeseen problems. Another lesson I learned is to get the right mentors in place. So people who've done it before, or people who are great at observing the pitfalls so they warn you ahead of time, you're likely to run into x, y, z. And because you're likely to run into x, y, z, I will suggest you do this. Such people are very rare. Also, another lesson I learned is you will run out of money at some point. So you need to start on the premise of having no money. So you get creative in ways in which you can scale and also make your financial person, your financial planner, they need to be your best friend. Because they are the ones who are going to, when you're scenario planning, they're the ones who would bring in that dose of reality. So those are some, I mean, I've learned so many lessons, but those are a few of the lessons.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:23] Those are tremendous lessons. And the financial side, that one is a really great point. Because cash flow is one of those things, working capital actually makes or breaks many businesses. And so getting a strategic plan so that you can have working capital and be able to manage your own personal life in the meantime, this is absolutely huge. So I thank you so much for bringing that up. Can you share with us a little bit, Elizabeth, what the insight is on the blueprint for developing a luxury business that you've outlined in your book, 'The Luxpreneur'.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:09:13] Thank you so much for that question. Because people, they often think, okay, what's the secret sauce to setting up a luxury brand? And what's the difference between an ordinary brand and a luxury brand? So in my book, I talk about five pillars. There are many pillars, but I bring out the best five and, putting money aside, the five for me are storytelling, perception, customer experience, having an incredible product. Now, the product doesn't have to be the best, but it's got to be good. And then the fifth one is around vision and longevity. You want to build something to last. You are not building based on a trend or based on the latest social media fads that are out there. Because if we look at the brands that have lasted and come through in terms of test of time, they were started, again, I say this as a one man band for the most part, one man businesses, one woman businesses, but they have lasted through the ages because of the vision. And there was always something in the DNA around storytelling and around changing something. So there was a little bit of innovation. If we take somebody like Coco Chanel, she, again, a little, little black dress. Little black suit. She hated the frou frou fashions. So she took a very humble material, a Jersey tweed, very humble, very practical material and then she elevated. If we take somebody like Louis Vuitton who was so poor, he walked barefoot all the way from his village to Paris, he noticed, again, it could be something you notice in your business or in the industry, he noticed that trunks that were built in those times, you couldn't stack them. So he made trunks stackable. So again, there's always something in the DNA. And for me, I always say it starts with you as a person.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:11:29] Apart from those five pillars, I've spoken about the different archetypes of people that set up luxury brands. For example, if you are a visionary, what kind of people do you need around you to support you, to work with you? If you are an artisan, I'm a bit of an artisan, and if I was left to my devices, all I would do is create cakes and not keep an eye on cost and not care about marketing. But these are things I've had to learn to either do myself, or have people around me who can keep an eye on the money, who can keep an eye on the right marketing and the right image projection. So those are some of the things that I feel are the basis of building a luxury brand. The last thing for me is around the client. The one thing that people don't talk about often in the luxury industry is that there are different types of luxury clients. To give you an example, I use this example a lot because it's a famous meme. You have King Charles, our current king, and you have Ozzy Osbourne. Both born in the same year, a month apart. They've both been married twice and they both live in a castle, and they're both rich white men. Would you sell to them the same? No, you wouldn't. Probably not, because they are different luxury buyer archetypes. They're completely different. And those are some of the things I break down really, really well in my book, 'The Luxpreneur'.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:15] That is fascinating. I love your five pillars of storytelling perception, customer experience, having an incredible product and vision, and longevity. Those are all really critical things, and I love that you're using things that make a difference in propelling any business in a special light for the luxury market. So I feel like anyone could learn something from your book and what you're doing. Elizabeth, what are some of your big goals and aspirations that you're working on now?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:13:56] That's a great question. Right now my book is my baby. So once that's released, I'm doing a book tour, et cetera, et cetera. But I've got a follow-up book. The follow-up book for me is to focus more on the luxury client. And with that, I'm hoping to involve a behavioral psychologist. I'm hoping to involve a couple of high end clients who can, again, there's nothing quite convincing like first-hand testimony, etc. So I'm thinking of a follow up to my book. And then, I'm also thinking of a possible program around my book, because usually when people do programs on luxury clients, it's always one-dimensional. It's not rounded. And people don't look at the different types of luxury clients, so they tend to look at celebrities. But I can tell you this, a lot of my clients could possibly own-there could be a farmer back in the sticks to someone who is an aspirational or to someone who is a member of the royal family, and they are completely different. So that rounded experience that, multi-dimensional personalities are often missing from the narrative. And another big thing that I'm working on is diversity in the luxury sector. And I don't mean diversity the way people talk about diversity. I'm talking about cultural diversity.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:15:38] So, for example, there are differences in attitude between North America and South America. In the United States, you've got your small town values, you've got your big city values. So that for me is diversity. The way I see it, there is something for me around, because right now, the luxury industry, the last year has been a bit rocky for the industry. And we need new innovation, we need new ideas, and quite frankly, we need to treat our clients better. You hear of brands where, in order to preserve exclusivity, there are some practices that are not quite great for the look of the industry, for lack of a better word. You have people on a waiting list. Being on a waiting list is not bad, but then you hear these stories of, you've got to buy certain things before you're allowed to buy that thing. I go to a lot of luxury business forums, and if you want to improve as a business, I would suggest you bite the bullet and you go to these forums and you see what people are saying about your brand. Also, for me, the Diversity in Luxury Awards that I hold every year, we celebrate people in the luxury industry who are making a difference. So to give you an example, Chanel, when the CEO of Chanel was appointed a couple of years ago, the first thing she did was increase the fund. They have a fund for the education of girls, and the fund is about €20 million. She increased that from €20 million a year to €100 million. And that was her first-I mean, imagine that. Your first action as a CEO. That's huge. So to me, there's quite a number of luxury brands doing similar things, but nobody talks about it. I don't know what it is about luxury brands, but they're doing so much good, but they're keeping it under wraps. If you take Cartier for example, they do galas and dinners for women in particular, women in shelters. But again, nobody talks about that. So those are some of the positive things that I would love to highlight moving forward.

Sara Sheehan: [00:18:11] I think that's a wonderful thing to do and to show where people are giving back in the community. That is so incredibly valuable. And I really do appreciate the specificity by which that you're sharing, hey, this is not just DEI, as everyone explains it today. It's really about cultural differences globally, and this is such a powerful conversation. Having been involved with many global outsourcing engagements, where you're taking part of someone's business and giving it to a service provider somewhere else in the world, we have to be able to work together to make it work long-term. So cultural diversity and being able to navigate those relationships, that is going to add tremendous value in the business world, for sure. So thank you so much for all that you're doing there. What does being a transformational thinker mean to you, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:19:26] I think part of my last answer actually, it fits really well with this question. So for me it's about, first of all, transforming my own thinking before I can then put that onto a whole industry. It's about, for me anyway, it's about looking at things differently and also looking for the links, because people say one thing about me, that I'm able to link random things together. I don't know if that's true or not, but I think my background as a scientist and then, me being a bit of an artist, you can take what's seemingly random patterns and then put them together. So it's about looking at your industry differently, looking at your business differently. And I do something I call an audit. So I do an audit of my thinking, and for that I may go off and do something that looks completely random. So to give you an example, this was way before it was a thing, I remember going off and doing a course in coding. It was C, the language is C. I was the only girl in a room full of almost 50 boys. I didn't really understand much, but I just wanted to challenge my own thinking. Because in those days, having a personal PC was the dream. And I was like, I wanted to know what was inside the PC.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:56] Right. How did it work?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:20:58] How does it work? So again, it's about putting yourself in what may seem to be uncomfortable, unconventional situations to challenge your own thinking and the way you view the world. To some people it could be travel, for example. And you notice that, in a particular market, there's a way they stack things, or there's a way they do things. Just noticing that and thinking, okay, how can we bring this into our world? How can we learn from what they're doing? So those are some of the things that I feel makes me a transformational thinker. Because I always assume that, okay, the way I look at things is normal, but to some people that's not normal. And that gets me excited because I want to see the world how they see the world from their perspective. And you don't necessarily have to agree. You spoke early on about, if you're taking a business, you're trying to outsource and you're trying to work with different cultures. You don't necessarily have to agree with certain things, but there is a way of working that can transform your mind and their mind. So that, to me, is what a transformational thinker is.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:20] That is fabulous. I love how you combined addressing mindset and growth all at the same time. That is very powerful, Elizabeth. Very, very powerful. What a fascinating conversation we've had today. Elizabeth, is there anything else that you're working on that you would like to share with us?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:22:47] I would love, again, this is a dream. I'm working on something around, and it all ties in, I promise you. I'm working on something around the business of books because I'm a big, big reader. I love books, and one of my heroes is Dolly Parton because of what she's doing with libraries. She has given millions of books away, and she actually pays everyone who graduates high school from her hometown. I think that is tremendous. So I'm doing something around building a knowledge bank, building knowledge that can transform minds, building capacity. Because as human beings, sometimes we forget that a lot of what we do is learned. A lot of what we do is conditioning or to be conditioned right. To be conditioned the right way, you need the knowledge and you need the right kind of knowledge. So for me I want to do something, again, around knowledge bank, around books, around economic inclusion. Because right now the model of the book industry is, you either independently publish or you belong to a publishing house. But with the publishing houses, I know a lot of people say, the model is out there, but for me, look at it this way. I see the model, the publishing houses can only take on so many people. They can only take on so many new. So there's a lot of really good books slipping through the drains. So there is something there around, how can we then reconcile the seemingly opposed industries around self-publishing versus traditional publishing? And both have their pros and cons. So there's something around that in mind. Because next year, every year we have the London Book Fair, and I'm trying to engineer conversations around that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:00] That is fascinating, and I will be very interested to see what develops for you in this space, because it's really clear that you want to leave a legacy of giving back and create that circle, that positive circle of repeating in society where you're helping someone else do something and achieve something good, and then they help in return. And that is so incredibly moving to me. When is the London Book Fair? Just so I know from a timescale reference.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:25:41] It's March next year. It's early March. I'll check the dates again. I'm not sure if it's before or after International Women's Day, because International Women's Day is around the 8th, and I know the London Book Fair tends to fall around that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:55] Okay, excellent. You've got about six months. That's interesting. That is really interesting. Just one point, one question. Do you have a formal publisher relationship for your book?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:26:11] No, I don't. It's something I'm doing independently. I'm working with a company who published my first book, which was quite a seller. It was a best seller because it was a book about cakes.but I but I did a limited run of that particular book because it was meant to celebrate ten years of me making cakes so I thought we'd do a book. So that was almost like a coffee book/baking book, as it were. But this one is a business book, and it's completely different. And my experience writing it was also different.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:48] I'm sure it was very different. Very interesting and exciting. Six months is a really good amount of time to be able to do something innovative and transformational. So I'll be very excited to see what comes forward for you in early spring of next year.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:27:08] Thank you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:09] Absolutely, absolutely. And so, Elizabeth, how would our listeners find you?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:27:16] The best place to find me is on LinkedIn. I've been on LinkedIn for, oh my gosh, a decade and a bit. And then obviously when Instagram was 'oh yay', we all went on to it. But now, back on LinkedIn enjoying my people on LinkedIn. So just type in 'Elizabeth Solaru luxury' and I will pop up. And that's the best way to reach me. And then my book will also be on Amazon, 'The Luxpreneur: How to Start and Build a Successful Luxury Brand', that will be on Amazon as well. So yeah, that's how to find me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:55] Excellent. And when do you expect the book to be on Amazon?

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:27:59] It's going on Amazon next week.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:01] Excellent. Perfect. This is wonderful timing.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:28:06] It's going on next week because, initially we would have done a preorder, but I just thought, you know what? I'm going to be like Dolly Parton. Just drop my project because she doesn't announce, she doesn't do this long lead. She just drops it. So I'm like, okay, what would Dolly do?

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:26] That is amazing. And so that means that I will probably be able to grab the link to your book and include it in the show notes.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:28:37] Yes, I will send it to you for sure.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:38] Excellent. Wonderful. Well, I can't thank you enough for your time today. I think you are an amazing story of resilience and creativity and constantly sharpening the saw, which we all need to do so that we're always growing. And it is very telling that, having a growth mindset, it definitely is a situation where growth and comfort do not coexist.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:29:11] That is incredibly, beautifully said.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:19] But if we are putting ourselves in the position to constantly sharpen the saw, really great and unexpected things might come our way.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:29:31] Absolutely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:32] Excellent. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Elizabeth. And I look forward to hearing great things about your book and the wonderful new opportunities that you're bringing to light in your business.

Elizabeth Solaru: [00:29:49] Thank you so much, Sara. I've really enjoyed this interview. You've been such a gracious host. Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:57] Absolutely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:58] Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. My conversation with Elizabeth Solaru is filled with wonderful lessons learned that I want to make sure that I'm highlighting in my takeaways. From Elizabeth's book, 'The Luxpreneur: How to Start and Build a Successful Luxury Brand', there are five big pillars in building a luxury brand. Starting with storytelling, perception in the market, the customer experience, having an incredible product, and finally, vision and longevity. Elizabeth's focus on helping people build their business and providing a blueprint for a successful luxury business really sets herself apart in the marketplace, and I'm really, really excited to share this episode with all of our listeners. As always, please subscribe and never miss an episode.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Alan Lazaros, Business Coach, Consultant, Trainer, and CEO of Next Level University. Alan’s approach to coaching comes from the heart, from lessons he learned through his personal life experiences, and has become an honest approach to inspiring, motivating, and educating people on what it truly takes to get to the next level in their lives and ambitions. Alan shares his story and thoughts on transformational thinking with Sara.

The revelations that came to Alan through losing his father to a fatal car accident and then surviving a terrible car accident himself brought him to the realization of his purpose; to assist people in re-tooling and reinventing themselves to achieve a greater level of success in their futures. He learned a lot about leadership through founding his business and guiding his team, and those internal lessons also enriched his coaching. He shares one of his most important principles, which is to ensure that a client’s goals are in alignment with who they really are.

Sara Sheehan and Alan Lazaros discuss Alan’s identified path to success and why self-awareness is what dictates how people will spend the three resources allotted to everyone in the human condition: time, effort, and money. Alan breaks down how our perceptions of ourselves and what we do dictate, to a large extent, who and what we become, and that it’s through habits and measurements of our progress that we achieve success. Sara learns more about Alan’s current work, his future business goals, and what he’s in the process of creating to achieve those goals. This conversation will inspire and transform the way we think about our ambitions.

About Alan Lazaros:

With a powerful combination of technical expertise and business acumen, Alan is a Business Coach, Consultant, Trainer, and Speaker specializing in helping businesses maximize their growth, impact, and profitability online. He believes in a heart-driven but NO BS approach to inspiring, motivating & educating others on what it REALLY takes to get to the next level.

At age 2, Alan’s father passed away in a car accident. At age 26, after getting into a nearly fatal car accident himself, he questioned everything he was doing in life. He questioned who he was and the choices he was making. He was at an all-time low.

Filled with regret, Alan searched for answers and found two of the brightest lights he had ever seen. The first bright light was a book by Bronnie Ware entitled, “The Top 5 Regrets of the Dying,” and the second was a Ted Talk by Tony Robbins. Both of these resources helped Alan find his way and guided him to make the choice of going ALL IN on self-improvement to design a life of meaning and purpose. On this self-improvement journey, Alan has learned he believes in a heart-driven but NO BS approach to inspiring, motivating, and educating others on what it REALLY takes to get to the Next Level.

Today, Alan is proud to say it is his mission to help others create a life full of both success and fulfillment. He learned the hard way how empty success without fulfillment is and how limiting fulfillment without success is as well. Today, he leads a global team of 21 people, and he’s quickly approaching his 10,000 hours of speaking, podcasting, training, and coaching individuals from all walks of life.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “Emotional Intelligence 2.0” by Travis Bradberry and Jean Greaves
• “Atomic Habits” by James Clear
• “Measure What Matters”by John Doerr

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Alan Lazaros:

• Website: NextLevelUniverse.com
• Email: Alan@NextLevelUniverse.com
• Podcast: Next Level University
• LinkedIn

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm joined by Alan Lazaros, CEO of Next Level University. Following a career in corporate, Alan had a near death experience that made him change the trajectory of his life. He became passionate about self-improvement and peak performance. His ultimate goal was to help people improve in business, love, life, health and wealth, dedicating his knowledge and resources to becoming an entrepreneur and peak performance coach. Along with his business partner, he founded his own podcast dedicated to personal growth and peak performance and business. Alan is the founder, CEO and CFO of his podcast, and he has succeeded in bringing and building and scaling his business with over 1680 episodes, sharing his strategies to positively impact people and help them succeed in all areas of life. What a great day it is, Alan, to have time with you and to actually be able to dive in to your story. Welcome, Alan.

Alan Lazaros: [00:01:27] Thank you. It is always a very humbling and awesome experience to hear an intro like that. To see from an outside perspective look at your own accomplishments, your own life, and I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:44] Absolutely. So, Alan, talk with me a little bit about your backstory and your near death experience.

Alan Lazaros: [00:01:52] So backstory, the context of this. And again, the important thing to understand here is that I didn't understand any of this at the time. It's kind of like rewatching a movie you saw as a kid, and you sort of rewatch the movie and realize, oh, got it, got it, got it. So it's been a lot of that. So at the time I didn't understand any of this. But now in hindsight, it's more clear. So when I was two years old, my father passed away in a car accident when he was 28 years old. I had a mom who was 31, stay at home mom, and a sister who was 6. From age 3 to 14, I had a stepfather named Steve Lazaros. My real last name is actually McCorkle. And my dad, my birth father, his name is John McCorkle. Big Irish Catholic family, Jim, Joe, John, Jean, Joan, Jeanette, six kids. And when he passed away, we sort of stopped associating a little bit with the McCorkles, I think partially, just unconsciously, because of the pain and the trauma of that. But the other part of it was us trying to be the Lazaroses. So a lot of times people see Alan Lazaros, they see this blond haired, blue eyed, German, Irish, Scottish, Polish person. And they go, Lazaros? Because it's a very Greek last name and I don't have a hair on me.

Alan Lazaros: [00:03:04] So anyways, my real last name is McCorkle. My stepfather came in and I chose his last name around age 7. Fast forward, fast forward, fast forward. My stepfather left at 14 and he took 90% of the income with him. He worked for a company called Agfa, sort of late 90s, early 2000s, they did hospital computers. So we were upper middle class, boats and ski trips, and he had a motorcycle and we had snowmobiles, and we lived on a lake, and we did fairly well. And I was known as sort of a "rich kid" by some of my friends. Although in hindsight, I realized that's probably not true. But we did well. And when he left, we went from boats and ski trips to, now I get free lunch at school because our income is so low. My mom trades in her BMW for a little Honda Civic, and I go from I can't wait to go to my dream college. WPI, Worcester Polytechnic Institute. It's kind of like a mini MIT. $50,000 a year. This is back then. I went from I can't wait to get in to, even if I do get in, I don't know how I'm going to go. We weren't going to starve, but we were definitely struggling financially.

Alan Lazaros: [00:04:13] So I did the only thing I knew how to do at that same time. So 14 was the hardest year of my life. I realized this in hindsight. So stepfather leaves, takes his entire extended family with him. Haven't seen a single one of them since. Talked to my stepdad a little bit on Facebook Messenger. Same year, sister moves out with her older boyfriend. Same year when I'm 14, mom gets in a fight with my aunt Sandy, her sister. And my aunt Sandy ostracizes us from my mom's side of the family. To this day, I've only seen one person from that side of the family, so by the time I'm 14, I've kind of lost three families. And again, did not know this at the time. At the time it was just life. Four trauma responses: fight, flight, freeze and fawn. Fawn is sort of appease. So I became quite the social coward. But behind the scenes it was fight. The past is painful. The present is painful. What am I going to do? I don't have a trust fund. I don't have a father, I don't have-there's no future that's bright here, and I need to do it myself. If it's going to happen, it's going to be me. So I did the only thing I knew how to do, which is aim higher, work harder, get smarter.

Alan Lazaros: [00:05:16] Got straight A's through all of high school. I got what's called the President's Award, it's behind me. Signed by George W Bush. And essentially you have to get straight A's for all four report cards all four years. I was the obnoxious kid at the award ceremony that never sat down. Tons of scholarships, tons of financial aid. I get into my dream college WPI, and I go and I get my bachelor's in computer engineering. Fast forward, I stay for my master's degree and at this point, Computer Engineer, 21st Century, Masters in Business combination, very sought after suddenly, which was interesting. Worked for a ton of different tech companies. So I worked for a company called iRobot. I worked for a company called Sensata Technologies, which used to be Texas Instruments Lens Americas. A little software company called Oz Development. Tyco Safety Products, which eventually became SimplexGrinnell, all these different companies. Job hop, job hop, job hop, soul search, soul search, soul search, 65 to 85, 85 to 105, 105 to 125, 125 to almost 200 grand a year at a company called Cognex. Started a little inside sales engineering team. Got promoted to outside sales. My territory was Connecticut, Western Massachusetts and Vermont. I'm on the road selling industrial automation equipment into manufacturing facilities, big manufacturing facilities, particularly in Connecticut. And Cognex does machine vision equipment, it's kind of like the eyes of a robot. Quality assurance stuff.

Alan Lazaros: [00:06:41] I'm in my early 20s, probably 24, 25. I pay off 84 grand worth of college debt in a single year. I don't have a family. I don't have kids. My rent is 500 bucks a month. I bought a $5,000 car. 2004 Volkswagen Passat. Paid off 84 grand worth of college debt in a single year. Started investing all my capital. Built a Vanguard account, investment portfolio all the way up to $150,000 in my early 20s. And my goal was, okay, when my stepdad left, we didn't have enough money, I'm going to get really wealthy. That was kind of my goal. Then I get in my car accident. So I'm 26 at the time. I'm up in New Hampshire with my little cousin, the only cousin that actually came back from my mother's side, and we're driving to TGI Fridays. I was supposed to yield, I didn't. The snow banks were covering the signs in the bad winter back in 2015. I was supposed to be on the right side of the road. I ended up on the wrong side of the road past the double yellow lines. Look up in front of me. I see the brightest lights I've ever seen.

Alan Lazaros: [00:07:43] Two things in hindsight saved my life. Number one is the Volkswagen Passat 2004. This car, I used to call it The Tank. German engineered steel trap of a car. The whole front end was completely smashed in, but the frame stayed. Airbags deployed. So grateful that I was driving that car. If I was driving a little Honda or something, there's no way I'd be here. So drive safe cars, everyone. Number two. I thought it was a Mack truck. So it wasn't a Mack truck. Biggest, brightest lights I've ever seen, thought it was a Mack truck. Ended up being a lift kitted pickup truck. Kind of a lighter pickup truck, actually. And so that's the only reason why I'm here. So both airbags deployed. My cousin hurt his knee on the airbag. I hurt my face on the airbag. So physically we were okay. Rattled, but okay. Whiplash. Mentally, emotionally and spiritually though, this is the second chance my dad never got. And I've seen pictures of his car and I've seen pictures of my car and they don't look very different. And so for me, this was my existential quarter life crisis of mortality. Just completely filled with, what was it all for? Did my life really matter? Filled with regret? My poor choices? Was this the life I chose, or is this what my mom wanted for me or my family wanted for me? Like everything, just uncertainty.

Alan Lazaros: [00:09:15] Now, in hindsight, I realized this. And this is only in hindsight. At the time, I didn't get it. Before 26, I was extremely successful and achievement oriented and goal oriented and professionally developed. Resume, cover letter, LinkedIn, degrees, bachelor's, master's. But I wasn't as self-improvement oriented. I was focused on achievement rather than self. So I was very successful, but deeply unfulfilled. After the car accident, I flipped the script. I went all in on self-improvement, personal development, inner work, therapy, coaching, books on books on books. I started my own company, became really fulfilled. Healthy. Happy. Productive. Fitness model. Fitness coach. Fitness competitor. Starting my own company, but I went broke. Liquidated all my assets. So now I'm fulfilled, but I'm unsuccessful. And so now here I am, 9 years later, almost 10 years later, I'm going to be 36 in November. And now I can honestly say that I'm both successful and fulfilled. And I now want my future to be an amplified version of what it already is. Whereas back then I never could have said that. And so that's now what I help people with. I actually think success is fairly easy. I also think fulfillment is fairly easy. I think doing them both is actually really hard.

Sara Sheehan: [00:10:27] I would agree with that, yes. Really hard, especially when the mindset gets in the way or derails you, which it often does. You got to learn to wrestle that demon down.

Alan Lazaros: [00:10:44] The ego death that I had after that car accident. The identity death. The ego death. The metaphorical phoenix burning down and then rising anew from the ashes. I mean, it really did clear me up to go to work on me. And it's obvious now, in hindsight, how lost I was before that. But again, of course, it's relative to where I am now, right? So we're all lost. It's just to what extent?

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:12] And you can choose to keep growing and have a growth mindset and everything that you do. So you can make that an upward trend for the rest of your life if you want too. Which is super exciting. And so, Alan, talk with me a little bit about what motivated you to create your business.

Alan Lazaros: [00:11:37] So that is actually something that's super vulnerable to talk about because I don't know if this is unique to me or not. I doubt it is. But I do think as an engineer it might be a little bit unique to me. So I'm a math thinker, and I remember when I was in corporate I saw these trends, particularly automation. I worked in industrial automation and I saw these manufacturing facilities, and think of an ice cream company that's a really famous one. Keep it anonymous. And I'm there and I sell equipment that checks to make sure every carton is optimal, every carton quality assurance. And before I went in, there was these people at the end checking the cartons manually. That was their job. Make sure everything was good, put them in the bin. And I made a sale, and I'll never forget this. And I remember thinking, all of their jobs are gone now, and I just made a big commission check. And big is relative. And I remember thinking, okay, so automation is going to happen whether I'm a part of it or not, like it's coming whether we like it or not. I mean, everyone's been to the grocery store and seen kiosks more than people at the cash register. That's going to happen forever. It always has been happening. It's just been kind of under our noses and now it's exponential. But I saw this really interesting trend, and this is the vulnerable part that I'm always scared to share. The less educated population, statistically speaking, tends to have more children and tends to have them younger. The more educated population tends to have less children and tends to wait. So Emilia and I, she's 29, I'm 35. We were going to wait. We're waiting even longer. And she's extremely well educated, I am too, and again, that's not an elitism thing. It's just the truth. I'm very grateful to be very educated. And so I looked at the stats and I got scared because I saw the uneducated, the less educated population exponentially increasing, and I saw the amount of jobs available for those people exponentially decreasing due to robotics automation.

Alan Lazaros: [00:13:43] And so I decided, you know what? Listen, if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem. And I knew I was part of the problem. I'm a computer engineer. I know that I'll have a job. The 21st century, every company needs people who understand tech. And that's just the truth. And if you don't understand tech, you are a little bit in trouble and you know it. So please come up in that. And I'm not saying that because I'm being mean. I'm saying that because the future is tech. That said, that was really what inherently got me to start my business, is just realizing that I was out of alignment with the solution. Now the solution is not give everyone a handout. The solution is not save everybody. But the solution is, instead of selling equipment that takes jobs, I'm going to create a company that helps people retool and helps people reinvent themselves so that they are relevant in the 21st century marketplace. And so now I help entrepreneurs and I help individuals grow and scale their small businesses, which creates jobs, but also just helping people realize that, listen, technology is exponentially increasing. The world has changed more in the last 20 years than the previous 200. So you have got to come up and retool and reinvent yourself if you want to be relevant. I mean, I have friends from college. I went to a tech school that are all multi-millionaires, and there's no shortage of job offers for them. But if you don't know tech and you don't have an engineering degree or technology in your background, it's going to be a lot harder for you, potentially. Now my whole company is built on this idea of retool, reinvent yourself, and then you'll have a bigger, better, brighter future. Because I saw a lot of people's future and I got scared.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:31] That is a fascinating story, Alan, and the fact that you are part of the solution is an even more exciting facet to the story. You have chosen a path to make a difference and help multiply not only your impact, but the people that you work with and help to grow. So that's a wonderful story that I love sharing. Alan, can you talk with me about what lessons you've learned from building and scaling your business?

Alan Lazaros: [00:16:08] The first lesson I learned from growing and scaling my business is that leadership is the hardest thing in the entire world.

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:14] It's definitely not easy, that's for sure.

Alan Lazaros: [00:16:19] So we have a 22 person team, and we talked offline, you and I, and we playfully joked about how I didn't start at 22. So it was 5 and then it was 3 and then it was 7, and then it was 5, and then it was 9. So it's been a lot of challenges. So the first lesson I learned is leadership is the hardest thing in the entire world. The amount that you have to be both professionally developed and personally developed in order to be a 21st century leader is wild. I mean, you need the hard skills because you need to be able to use these softwares. You need to be able to use Zoom. You need to be able to type fast. These hard skills you need. Not all of them, but you need a lot of them. And then you also need the soft skills. You need the emotional intelligence. You need to understand the human condition. You need to understand what motivates people, what inspires people. You need to understand org structure and how to harmonize a team of multicultural, multi-country individuals all toward common goals. And then you also have to have a systems thinking engineering brain that says, okay, these are the things that matter. These are the results we're going for. And if we focus on these inputs, we'll actually get this output.

Alan Lazaros: [00:17:32] It's almost like you're making chocolate cake. But the chocolate cake is an infinite game and you are making it with 50 people, and it's a cake that you are consistently making and then taste testing and then improving and then taste testing and then improving. If you have the right recipe, you can make chocolate cake. But what about in a world where that recipe changes every day, and the people that you're working with evolve and grow and change every day, and then the roles and responsibilities of each of those people change every day. And so the biggest lesson that I learned is leadership is the hardest thing in the entire world. It's a ton of responsibility. In a way, you're kind of responsible for the success of other people. The best vehicle that I've found for leadership has been coaching. Coaching and training, really. And coaching is 1 to 1. Training is 1 to many. So I have training on Saturday with my team. But ultimately you have to be both hard skills, mathematical, systems thinking, structure, self-discipline, lead by example. But you also have to be able to communicate really effectively and understand and be empathetic and vulnerable and humble and courageous and use communication. So you need both professional development and personal development in order to be a great leader, I think, and I can't imagine a great leader who doesn't have both of those.

Sara Sheehan: [00:18:55] I know from all of the leaders that I've worked with in my long career, there are some that are good at both sides and there are many that aren't. I would love for it to become a norm in business that the office bullies and the people that actually are very negatively impacting their teams, that those people would literally be put in a corner. I would love that, over time, because we need more multi-dimensional, effective leaders everywhere, without question. One of the things that you hit on in that answer, Alan, is the need for emotional intelligence, which I think is more now than ever. I don't know if you've read Emotional Intelligence 2.0, but I do highly recommend it if you haven't. Because it actually does document that if you improve on emotional intelligence, you'll actually change your income. It will actually have a numerical impact on what you bring in. So I definitely recommend that book not only to you, but anyone that's listening.

Alan Lazaros: [00:20:30] I just wrote it down. It's on the list.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:34] Excellent. And so talk with me, Alan, about the context around your business' habit tracking tool and your perspective on metrics.

Alan Lazaros: [00:20:48] So the first thing about the habit tracking tool you're referring to. I've been trying to figure out how to help people be, it's ultimately underneath all of it. It's how to be more successful and how to be more fulfilled. Because yeah, it's business coaching. I have 28 people as of today, actually, on my roster. Everywhere from, hey, I'm 16, I want to start a YouTube channel to I'm 63, I've been in business for decades, I'm already a multi-millionaire. So all different walks of life, all different backgrounds, all different cultures, all different sexes, all different countries. And I've learned more from my clients than anything I've ever done. It's just been amazing because you learn all these different industries, all these different people. But there's certain common traits with every single client, and the first common trait is everyone wants to be more successful and more fulfilled. Everyone. Now the path to that is completely different for every single client, but there's principles that apply to every client. One of the principles that you asked about is metrics. So what I've figured out, and again this is going to sound a little bit overly simple fortune cookie like, but here's what I do with my clients ultimately. And it's so interesting because I can tell you what I do and then it's so complex to actually do it. So here's the deal. A client comes to you and says, I want this goal. The first step is making sure that that goal is actually in alignment with who they really are. I think one of the reasons most people don't achieve their goals, and statistically only 4% of people, I've just researched this, achieve their resolutions, their goals. The reason why I think is, number one, they're outside of alignment. The goals are outside of alignment with who they really are.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:27] And so they didn't actually set a goal that is something that they could actually do is what you're saying?

Alan Lazaros: [00:22:34] Either it's outside of alignment with their strengths and weaknesses, or it's outside of alignment with their core values.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:40] That's a serious problem.

Alan Lazaros: [00:22:40] If you have a core value of being present with your family, and then you set a goal to be a billionaire, you're in some serious trouble. Because those are incongruent for the most part. So, number one is figure out who you really are, not the facade. Who you think you are is different than who you really are. So we've got to get to the core. And this is what my car accident did for me. It burnt down the phoenix, my ego. And it got me to face the truth of who I really am. And so that has to be done as a first step. So let's assume that you know 10 out of 10 who you are, self-awareness, which no one is 10 out of 10. And if you think you're 10 out of 10, trust me, you're definitely not. Which is funny. But anyways, so let's get closer to who you really are. Your real strengths, your real weaknesses, your real blind spots, your real core values, what you actually value versus what you tell yourself you value, that kind of thing. Number two is setting a goal based on that. Now once you have the goal, in order to achieve it, you have to reverse engineer it. And that means, and I'm closing my eyes right now because I have to think about this. So if you say, I want to gross a half million dollars in my business this year, okay, how do you do that? To me, there's only three resources in the human condition that all of us have: time, effort and money. It really boils down to those three. Where you put your time, your effort, and your money is going to determine your success.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:01] That's correct.

Alan Lazaros: [00:24:03] Awesome. And there's only four things you can invest in: persons, places, things and ideas. So where you are going to put your time, effort and money, into which persons, places, things and ideas is going to dictate the results that you get in life. So how do I, as your coach, get you to invest your time, effort and money into the proper or optimal persons, places, things and ideas based on your goal, assuming it's based on who you really are? I figured out, to answer your original question, metrics. If I can get you to measure the right metrics and track the right habits and behaviors, you can get your goal.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:40] Absolutely. This is something I do all the time in helping clients manage and adopt change. One of the things that they need to do is they really need to think about what their business outcome is. First, they need to identify behaviors that they would like to see in the future, and what measures they will use to track whether or not those behaviors are getting embedded.

Alan Lazaros: [00:25:09] Exactly. And then the behaviors won't happen unless the identity is there first. So you got to go into the identity work. I said this to my client recently. I said, you have all these achievements you want, but you don't identify as an achiever. If you don't identify as an achiever, you're not going to do what achievers do.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:30] That's a huge problem.

Alan Lazaros: [00:25:31] You're an achiever. I'm an achiever. We identify as achievers. So therefore we're going to act like achievers. And therefore we're going to statistically achieve more than people. I told this to my business partner. I said, Kev, do you identify as an achiever? He said, no, not really. I said, that's holding us back. He says, well, I do identify as a peak performer. Okay, awesome. So what do peak performers do? Every label has a meaning, and that meaning dictates what we do and don't do. And so if you identify as an athlete, you're going to do athletic things more than someone who doesn't. Back to the metrics and habits though. This is a James clear quote from Atomic Habits, it's very valuable. He says every behavior you do is a vote for the type of person you want to become. And so if you podcast consistently, you consider yourself a podcaster, which then gets you to podcast more consistently. It's this positive identity feedback loop.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:26] We become what we do.

Alan Lazaros: [00:26:28] Yes, 100%. We become what we repeatedly do. I have that quote behind me from Aristotle right there. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit. So ultimately, to answer your question, though, that's what I do, is I break down the top three metrics. Okay, so here's your top three goals for the year, which lead to your dreams. Then let's break that into quarterly goals. Top three quarterly goals. So for the end of Q3 we're ending in a month and nine days. Then we break that down into inch pebbles. The inch pebbles are your daily habits. The daily habits lead to the milestones. The milestones are quarterly goals that lead to the annual goal. The annual goal leads to your goals and dreams. And the metrics are basically, if you want to lose 10 pounds in ten weeks, you have to measure your weight. There's a book called Measure What Matters.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:16] And maybe the calories you take in.

Alan Lazaros: [00:27:19] Yeah, that too. Perfect. So those are the three main metrics for losing weight is measure your workouts, measure your weight, and measure your calories. But a lot of people don't want to measure. They want to wing it. And the truth is, and I'm an engineer, so I'm biased on this. If you don't know your numbers, you're in trouble.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:36] There's no source of truth there that you're reckoning with. If you don't measure what you're doing, you're not actually dealing with the fact if you need to make a change and lean in more. Or, I need to change what I'm doing so that I am practicing this habit more. Or, you know what, I may be doing that too much, and I may need to pull another lever and add something else to the mix. If you're not looking at what you're doing, you'll never know.

Alan Lazaros: [00:28:12] I concur. I think one of the biggest problems in people's lives is they're unfulfilled, and the reason they're unfulfilled is because they're not actually in alignment with what they value, and one of the reasons they're not in alignment with what they value is because they don't measure anything. If you have a core value of family, are you measuring the amount of quality time with your family or are you just winging it. And there was this website when I was in college, it was really silly, it was called StumbleUpon back in 2007. It's wild. But I remember thinking it was the dumbest thing ever. But anyways, it's like webcam roulette. You basically do funny things in your webcam and you stumble across other webcams doing funny things, sometimes gross things, whatever. And I remember thinking, dumbest waste of time ever, but whatever, it's a dorm room. But that's how a lot of people live their life. They stumble upon persons, places, things and ideas. They didn't design anything.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:13] That's an important point.

Alan Lazaros: [00:29:15] And so I'm biased because I'm an engineer. I designed all of this. I mean people say, well, how did you get here? And how did you go through all that adversity and still make it? And whatever. The truth is, it was through massive pain and failure. I designed it all in advance and then just worked really hard and iterated along the way. And I know that sounds overly simple, but the truth is, that's exactly how I did it. And I measure every day. I have 22 habits I track every day.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:49] That's phenomenal.

Alan Lazaros: [00:29:51] Thank you. And that's the only way I help my clients is, I say, if you don't want to track metrics and habits, I cannot coach you. And in the beginning, trust me, I didn't say that because I needed clients. Now I do, and that's really how I help is just keep you on track. Set up the train tracks, stay on the train tracks, improve the train tracks, and then you get momentum.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:12] It's pretty simple.

Alan Lazaros: [00:30:13] And you start to believe in yourself. It's really cool what happens, but it's not overnight. It takes sometimes years.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:19] Well, it takes a minimum of 90 days to even work on three habits becoming a habit. James Clear, I believe he says it's 66 days to truly create a habit in your brain where the neurons connect, and there is an automatic response. And so 90 days working on three habits. Is that realistic?

Alan Lazaros: [00:30:50] Change your whole world.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:51] Yes it is. It can change your world. Absolutely. I love what you're doing in that space. What other big goals and aspirations, Alan, are you working on accomplishing right now?

Alan Lazaros: [00:31:07] So there's sort of the long term visionary mission statement that I can give, and then I'll break it down. So the mission statement, I have it on my desktop background right now. I can actually read it. It's actually a North Star, so I wear this around my neck. It's a little North Star to remind me of my purpose. To build the most positively impactful, holistic self-improvement company in history. So that's the ultimate, everything gets filtered through that statement. And so if this wasn't in alignment with that, I wouldn't even be here.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:42] Thank you. That's nice.

Alan Lazaros: [00:31:44] I don't mean that in a negative way, it filters everything. So I'm trying to have a positive impact, and you're having a positive impact, so it's a good thing. So you actually did take that as a compliment?

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:54] Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Alan Lazaros: [00:31:56] Of course. Thank you for having me. And then I'll break it down. So in terms of what else we want to achieve, ultimately the podcast is kind of the main thing. I break everything into two trains. I think there's a short term train and there's a long term train. One of them is short term profitability. So right now my focus is business coaching. So my current milestone for this quarter is 30 clients. My goal that rolls up to for 2024 is 35 business coaching clients. And then that's the short term profitable train that actually pays for the long term brand and business builder, which is the podcast called Next Level University. And Kev does the same thing, but he's a podcast coach and then has his own other podcast called Podcast Growth University. Ultimately what we're trying to accomplish is, we call it listeners, longers and business owners. So we have Next Level University, which is the main podcast. He has Podcast Growth University, and I'm starting Business Growth University. So there's listeners, longers and business owners. And I'm an engineer, so this is-I have to close my eyes to think about this. So next level University is about self-improvement, success and fulfillment. Life, love, health and wealth. Holistic self-improvement. Podcast Growth University is how to start, grow, scale and monetize a podcast. Business Growth University is going to be, it's not done yet, is going to be about how to start, grow, scale and monetize a business in the 21st century.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:22] That's so needed.

Alan Lazaros: [00:33:24] Listeners, longers and business owners.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:25] So needed, that last part of your pyramid there. Very needed, Business Growth University.

Alan Lazaros: [00:33:37] That is my next main thing.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:39] Excellent. When can we expect to see context around Business Growth University?

Alan Lazaros: [00:33:48] So right now I have something called The Next Level Audio Blog. I'm rebranding it to Business Growth University hopefully by the end of the year, but honestly I'm a little overwhelmed, so we'll see. Hopefully by the end of the year, definitely in 2025 though.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:01] You have enough time to get it done. I understand when you have too many priorities, sometimes you need to take a look at it and move it out.

Alan Lazaros: [00:34:12] We currently have too many priorities, I would say. But the listeners, longers business owners thing. So listeners are people who want to learn from us. Longers are people who want to build their own podcasts and build their own communities. And then business owners are people who want to start and scale an actual business with skin in the game. And a lot of listeners turn into longers, longers turn into business owners. There's some business owners who want to start a podcast, and they go to Kev, and there's some podcasters who want to start a business, and they come to me. We actually have several clients we're both working with, and he's helping them scale their podcast, I'm helping them scale their business. But ultimately, we're just helping people do what we've done. And so it's this really cool metaphorical mountain that we're all climbing together and we're learning together along the way. And it's a mountain that gets higher as you climb it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:00] And your impact increases as well which is super exciting. And so, Alan, what does being a transformational thinker mean to you.

Alan Lazaros: [00:35:11] So when I saw the title of your podcast, I got very excited. There are six leadership styles and there's a bunch of different modalities of leadership. So the six that I use are: there's servant leader, there's participatory leader, there's delegative leader, there's transactional leader, there's dictator or assertive leader, and then there's transformational leader. I think I got them all. Servant, delegative, transactional, assertive, participatory and then transformational. And to answer your question, transformational thinker, I think, is a transformational leader. And the difference between a transformational leader and all the other leadership styles is that a transformational leader deploys whichever leadership style is necessary in the moment. So we joke, we have three chief officers, me, Kevin and Christina, and she's the COO and really the backbone of the company and I'm the CEO and Kevin's the chief sales officer. He was the CFO and then we transitioned that to me because I'm the numbers guy. So that didn't make any sense. Whoops. (Good lesson learned) Yeah, it was. We playfully refer to ourselves as the three cowards. And the reason why is because no one wants to be bad cop. And so it ends up having to be me. And I think a transformational leader is someone who is willing to fight for what's the best win win win scenario. There's a book called High Road Leadership that I actually think is garbage, but the concept of high road leadership is amazing and garbage is probably too harsh. I mean, it wasn't terrible. I was just so excited and it ended up letting me down.

Alan Lazaros: [00:36:52] But anyways, high road leadership is, in my opinion, what it means to be a transformational thinker. You don't think about just the now. You don't really care about the now, actually. I don't care that much about the now to be completely honest. I care about the future. I care about the greater good, and sometimes the greater good means that an individual needs to stop craving such significance in the moment. I'm just going to give an example, and I think I'll get a little villainized for this, but whatever. Anyone who says, oh, it's my birthday week. It's like, listen, the world doesn't revolve around you. And you don't get a week. I don't care about my birthday. There are there are bigger problems in the world. Have you ever heard someone who's like, oh, well, you didn't wish me a happy birthday. I don't want to be mean. But the truth is, who cares? You need to find some perspective. You need to go work on problems that are real. I'm sorry, but your birthday doesn't matter to me. My own birthday doesn't matter to me. You think yours does? That's what a transformational thinker is. Someone who doesn't care about trivial, mundane things that just don't really matter that much. It's someone who orients their life around meaning and purpose and the greater good, and usually gets wildly villainized for that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:38:13] The only thing I'd add to what you just said is some of what you said earlier, which is that the part of now that I think that you are concerned about is the, what people are doing now. Because you know that what people do now is what creates the future. And so you are concerned about those behaviors, habits and metrics. You are concerned about that.

Alan Lazaros: [00:38:46] Fulfillment, virtue, growth, contribution, maximizing your potential, that I care about. I do not care about your birthday.

Sara Sheehan: [00:38:55] I understand. You can know, I think, in developing more emotional intelligence, which we all can stand to do. Because it means that we'll have deeper connections with people that we interact with and have more impact, not only on the individual that we're interacting with, but in others around them, because they will have more impact on others. When you get into a situation where you are caring about the people that are on your team, you're going to see them be more engaged. And when they're more engaged, you're going to see business performance increase as well.

Alan Lazaros: [00:39:43] I didn't plan on this, but a little side tangent. You asked me, what's the best lesson that I've learned in growing Next Level University. If I could go back and tell this to my younger self, this is what it would be: humility is the most important character trait in the world. And it's sneaky because inward humility is different than outward modesty. Inward humility is someone who reads the books behind the scenes when no one's watching. Inward humility is someone who is still working on themselves and has a therapist, and has mentors and coaches and learns and is a student mindset. Leading people without humility is almost impossible. I have a new rule, and the new rule is, and this is to your point too, when you say that pouring into your team, caring about your team, that's going to lead to more engagement, which will lead to more success. That's absolutely true, but not if there's not humility, because then you're going to keep pouring into someone who's deeply significance driven, and it's going to go to their head and you're going to create delusion. And that's always ended up a mistake. So someone with high humility who checks themselves constantly. Because leaders want to pour into people and build them up. What happens when you're building someone up passed into delusion.

Sara Sheehan: [00:41:06] That's not good. Not only is it not good, it's not healthy. It's not. It's going to breed a toxic environment.

Alan Lazaros: [00:41:16] Agreed. And then you create entitlement, delusion, and then it's all about status and perception and smoke and mirrors and it becomes this whole thing. I basically will never, ever bring a team member on who doesn't have high humility ever again.

Sara Sheehan: [00:41:31] Very insightful, Alan. And so is there anything else that you're working on that you would like to share?

Alan Lazaros: [00:41:37] No, I think that's it. We have a website called nextleveluniverse.com, spelled just like it sounds. And the podcast is Next Level University. 1% improvement. Health, wealth, life and love in your pocket every day from anywhere on the planet, completely free. And that's it. Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:41:59] That's phenomenal. And so, Alan, are there any other ways for our listeners to find you?

Alan Lazaros: [00:42:04] Those are the two best ways. You can also email me, alan@nextleveluniverse.com. Please just provide context. Because, like all of us, I get a lot of spam.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:19] Absolutely. Well, the personal touch always makes a difference. So when someone can actually reach out to you and ask their question, they might be more likely to engage you in the future. I definitely am a proponent of actually sharing how people can reach you because it does make a difference. Thank you so much for your time today, Alan, and for sharing your personal lessons learned as you have pivoted not only your life, but your professional world, and you are absolutely creating a ripple effect that is going to be a great thing for people that really want to increase their performance. So I applaud you.

Alan Lazaros: [00:43:12] Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This is an honor. I do not take it lightly to speak into the lives of others and for that opportunity. So I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:43:21] Excellent. Thank you so much for your time today.

Sara Sheehan: [00:43:22] Thank you so much for joining today's session of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. My conversation with Alan Lazaros is just full of insights. Alan's remarkable journey from overcoming a near-death experience through a car accident to creating a transformational self-improvement platform offers invaluable lessons for leaders and entrepreneurs alike. Here are three big takeaways from our insightful conversation. The power of emotional intelligence. Developing deeper connections through emotional intelligence can significantly impact both personal relationships and business performance. The importance of humility in leadership. Maintaining humility is crucial in leadership roles. It helps prevent the pitfalls of entitlement and delusion, fostering a healthier, more productive team environment. Metric driven success. Identifying and measuring the right metrics can make or break your goals. Every behavior is a vote for the person that you want to become, so align your daily habits with your long term vision. Alan is not only revolutionizing personal growth through Next Level University, but also sharing his expertise on how to scale and monetize businesses in the 21st century. This conversation is just full of actionable insights that I'm so glad to share with you today. Don't forget to subscribe to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan and never miss an episode.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Dr. Bruno R. Cignacco, an international business consultant, TEDx speaker, and best-selling author. For over thirty years Dr. Cignacco has advised and trained hundreds of companies on trade activities and social marketing. His latest book, “The Art of Compassionate Business” examines the long-held assumption that employees are and should be treated like commodities and customers perceived as difficult. Bruno instead explores the need for humanity and healthy relationships not just with employees but with customers and shareholders as well.

Businesses frequently resort to operating only on the quantitative outputs of a company, which can be measured, instead of qualitative values such as compassion, generosity, and engagement. Dr. Cignacco challenges the assumption that humanistic love has no place in business. He asserts the many benefits of humane and compassionate dealings with the people who comprise the workplace. The benefits become quantitative when they turn the workplace into a supportive environment that fosters a sense of safety and innovation where employees and customers feel valued, and when the fear of losing jobs, money, or status can be pushed aside.

Sara Sheehan and Dr. Bruno Cignacco discuss how organizations have stepped away from operating with any degree of love or care for the people who create and sustain their success, why the need to embrace seeing people as humans deserving of empathy and support is so great, and the overall benefits to the paradigm shift that’s needed. Bruno shares what is required to change the cold approach of businesses and how to embrace a more compassionate engagement with people. There is room for humanistic love in business, and it can help an organization flourish.

About Dr. Bruno Cignacco:

Dr Bruno Roque Cignacco (PhD) is an international business consultant, TEDx speaker, lecturer, and best-selling author. For over 30 years, he has advised and trained hundreds of companies on international trade activities and social marketing. He is a university professor at different institutions in the UK. He is a Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy (HEA - UK). He is also the author of business and personal development books published in different languages. His new best-selling book is titled “THE ART OF COMPASSIONATE BUSINESS. MAIN PRINCIPLES FOR THE HUMAN-ORIENTED ENTERPRISE" (Routledge). His TEDx talk titled "The art of compassionate business" at Bonn Square Salon (Oxford, UK) has been viewed thousands of times.

This specialist has delivered countless talks and training at a myriad of organisations, such as YPO (Mexico), Hult University, NCC Education in Manchester (UK), HKU SPACE (Hong Kong), University of Wollongong (Australia), Karachi Institute of Economics & Technology (Pakistan), Federation of Small Businesses UK, Jaipur Rugs (India), University of London, Guizhou University of Finance and Economics (China), Centre for Sustainable Action, Edinburgh Napier University, University of Bahrein, The University of Law (UK), Bicol University (The Philippines), Kamara Youths, DUAL Group (Howden Group Holdings), ASM Institute of professional studies (India), Deloitte (Denmark), and Bath Royal Literary & Scientific Institution (UK), among hundreds of other institutions worldwide.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Stephen R. Covey
• “The art of compassionate business with Bruno Cignacco” TEDX BonnSquareSalon

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Bruno Cignacco:

• Website: BrunoCignacco.com
• Book: “The Art of Compassionate Business: Main Principles for the Human-Oriented Enterprise” by Dr. Bruno R. Cignacco
• LinkedIn

Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Does love make business better? Yes, it certainly does. Not sentimental love, but humanistic love and compassion can aid in employee health and well-being, nurture collaboration with competitors, develop better relationships with investors and suppliers, and increase efficiency, productivity and the bottom line. Today, I'm speaking with Dr. Bruno Cignacco, a pioneer in compassionate business practices. Bruno is an esteemed international business consultant, TEDx speaker, lecturer and best-selling author with over 30 years of experience. In today's episode, we delve into Bruno's latest book, The Art of Compassionate Business: Main Principles for the Human-Oriented Enterprise. This book challenges long held assumptions about business dynamics and offers a refreshing perspective on how companies can operate more humanely and with humanistic love. Bruno shares insights on how to view employees as individuals, embrace competitors as collaborators, and foster creativity within a compassionate business framework. Get ready for an enlightening conversation that could transform the way you think about business.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:01:42] Thank you very much.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:43] Thank you so much for joining me here today, Bruno.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:01:49] Thank you Sara. Thank you. I feel very honored to be here.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:52] I am so glad to be engaging in this conversation. Compassion and business is a topic that literally no one is talking about, so I am super intrigued with what you're doing and I want to amplify your message. So tell me, Bruno, is there a way to perform business activities in a more humane way?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:02:24] Yes, there is, of course. Thank you for the question. We can first define compassion because many people might think about compassion in different ways. Compassion can be defined very simply as an attitude toward other people, where you understand how they think, you understand how they feel, and you try to support them, especially when they face challenges. This concept of compassion can be applied to business because you will be related to colleagues in the workplace, you will be related to customers and other stakeholders like suppliers, community members, business partners. And being compassionate, according to research, brings about a lot of benefits that then we will enumerate much more in detail. But what I observed is that many companies tend to focus only on what I call the quantitative aspect of business. What can be measured? What can be precisely counted? For example, market share, productivity, profitability, these are what we call the economic parameters of business. What makes a company successful, economically speaking, in the market place. And they're very important. But they in many cases dismiss what I call the qualitative aspect of business what cannot be measured precisely what cannot be counted. For example, compassion, camaraderie, commitment, engagement, generosity, gratitude, and this qualitative aspect of business, what cannot be measured cannot be counted precisely. Build strong, long lasting relationships with different stakeholders and why it's so important because we can mention Stephen Covey, a very important thinker in management, that he observed that a very important principle in life and in business is interdependence.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:04:15] No company can succeed without stakeholders. No company can succeed without customers, without employees, without community members, without suppliers. So when you build a strong relationship with these stakeholders, this economic indicator profitability, productivity, efficiency, market share tend to be achieved naturally. Instead, when you focus only on these economic indicators, in many cases you tend to achieve these indicators and you try to achieve this indicator by all means, in some cases in a very unethical way. For example, exploiting employees, polluting the environment, deceiving customers, developing win lose agreements with suppliers. And obviously, when you behave in this unethical way and this unkind way, how do you expect this stakeholder to support your company. No, they will withdraw. They won't cooperate. In some cases, supply will look for other companies. Employees might work for competing organizations. Customers might leave negative reviews, so this means that being compassionate implies building a strong, long lasting relationship with these stakeholders and creating a balance between the qualitative aspects of business that cannot be measured precisely. Camaraderie, compassion, generosity and quantity the aspect of what can be measured precisely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:38] Thank you very, very much for that. I know that fear is a very powerful emotion, and it can derail many people right in the middle of being in productive flow. Why does fear in business prevent people from being kind?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:06:03] Very interesting. First of all, we want to define fear. Fear is a contracted emotional state. When people feel fearful, they feel fear, they tend to act in a defensive way in a very non proactive way. Why? Because they look for threats in the environment and they tend to adopt what the psychologists call flight or fight mode, which implies that we are looking for something to defend from, something that could be threatening. The types of fear that are in the workplace are, for example, fear of being fired, fear of making mistakes, fear of, for example, being outpaced by colleagues, fear of acting in an innovative way. So this means that when you have fear in the workplace, the workplace tends to be psychologically unsafe. People cannot be themselves. They cannot cooperate. In workplaces where there is a lot of fear, they are not trust based workplaces and people act in a very defensive way. This means that they don't like to share resources with others. In some cases, they are competing with each other and this creates a lot of inefficiency. And why? Because the cost goes up in a way that people don't share resources.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:07:30] In some cases, they want to put everything in writing. Imagine you don't trust your supply. You might write a very detailed contract. You might contract lawyers to check that all the conditions are very clear. Why? Because you don't trust, you are fearful of this supplier deceiving you. Well, when there is fear, not only do people not cooperate, but they tend to withdraw. And when people are fearful, they cannot be compassionate because they are in incompatible states. And when they are fearful, they cannot be innovative. Why? Because there is a lot of research on innovation and creativity. People tend to be innovative and creative when they have much more expansive emotions. For example, joy, when they have more contracted emotion like fear. Why? Because when you are fearful, your reasoning skills are temporarily impaired. You think about the threat. You focus on the threat, and you don't think about how to become more productive because it's not relevant at that moment. You don't think about how to become much more innovative because you try to defend yourself.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:30] We were just talking about fear and about how fear keeps people from being kind. Moving forward, what kinds of fears do you see in the workplace?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:08:46] As I mentioned, there are different types of fear in the workplace. People are fearful of being fired. People are fearful of making mistakes or fearful of being outpaced by other colleagues. And also, in some cases, people are fearful of not abiding by the consensus in this organization what we call groupthink. They are fearful of dissenting with others. And this fear brings about a lower productivity, lower creativity, lower trust. And this brings about a negative impact on the economic results. Because when people are fearful, they cannot be proactive, they cannot be proactive and they cannot be innovative.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:32] This is a great conversation. When I think about fear in the workplace I often think about situations where employees are fearful of layoffs, or they're fearful of retribution from a certain situation, something that comes back to harm them. And when I think about situations where either I've had fear or I've seen fear in others, it's always been an unproductive situation. It's a very powerful thing to make sure that leaders are cluing into how people are feeling, and trying to get them on the positive side of the equation. That's very powerful because it will help your people be more productive. It's a great point. Moving forward, what would you say are economic impacts from being more human oriented in business?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:10:50] There are some research studies that observe that when you have a loving workplace, and here we are talking about love in a humanistic way. Which includes some byproducts such as compassion, empathy, support, care. When you have a loving workplace, employee satisfaction goes up. Customer satisfaction also goes up. Why? Because employees that are satisfied, employees that are happy, they are content, they are fulfilled, tend to serve customers in a much more effective way. They look for the happiness of this customer, but also in this workplace that are supportive, they are kind. They are trust based. There is lower absenteeism, lower stress levels, lower turnover and all this factor impact positively on the bottom line, which means profits. Companies also reduce the medical bills. Why? Because people get less stress.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:48] They're healthier.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:11:49] They're healthier and like to go to work. They don't go only for the salary because they go also because they feel that they are making a meaningful contribution to this company and to a stakeholder in general.

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:01] That is a powerful message. Love is good for business. Caring for your people is going to pay dividends in your business. So powerful. Let's transition to talk a little bit about manipulation and how that impacts the environment at work. There is so much, there is a huge proliferation of manipulation in the business world. Why do you think that is?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:12:40] Well, manipulation implies generally acting without integrity. So this means that every time that a company adopts a manipulative strategy, this company is more prone to act without integrity, and integrity implies acting with transparency. Acting with kindness. Acting with supportiveness. And manipulation is the opposite. Some examples that you see of manipulation is when companies consider customers not as human beings with legitimate needs that need to be acknowledged and need to be addressed and satisfied whenever possible, but they consider these customers as specific figures in the database of this company that will make this company profits. So they don't care so much about the customer needs, but they care about the profit that they can obtain from this customer and customers feel used, utilized. And these companies, some cases when they act in a manipulative way, they use deceptive strategies. They try to force customers into buying certain products that they don't need, or in some cases, they are not transparent with the terms and conditions. They have a very nice fine print that is hidden in the contracts to deceive customer when they have problems. In some cases, the companies are grateful when the customer buy from them, but then they leave these customers to their own devices. When they have problems with the product, they don't sort out these problems at all. But also, employees can be manipulated. They can be considered as cogs in the company's machinery. This means that when they are faulty as parts of this machinery, this employee needs to be replaced. They are not considered as human beings that they have some challenges, problems. They have emotions too. They have emotional needs. They have social needs, mental needs besides economic needs. In some cases, employees are considered only as resources and resources can be used and can be used in excess.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:14:51] Instead, employees are human beings, and they are the most important resource that the company can resort to. Why? Because employees are meta resources. They are resources that help the company generate other resources. Employees can help the company generate new products, innovative services, new business models, new processes, systems. So employees should be taken care of. Because when you take care of employees, these employees will take care of customers. So most companies get profit from customers. But also another point to highlight is that many companies consider employees like costs. Costs that need to be reduced. So we're affected by the recession, we need to cut off the cost. What are the ones suffering from this cost cutting? Employees. And employees don't feel appreciated. In some cases, the company take for granted these employees. And micromanage these employees. This means that they treat these employees as little children, not the children that need to be educated, that need to be supervised continually. I don't give this employee the autonomy. A very important thing for every employee to decide is the best way to act in every situation. So these employees are feeling manipulated and unappreciated. And this employee, when they find better job opportunities, even job opportunities that they will have lower salary. They will look for this opportunity because in other company they might have not only the economic mismatch, but they will have emotional needs met. They might feel appreciated, they might feel supported, they might feel valued. And they will also have social needs. Meaning connecting to others, have been meeting with colleagues inside work and outside the workplace. So these employees are not resources to be used and abused, but they are human beings with legitimate needs.

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:39] Yes, absolutely. I love the detail that you went into there. It's super helpful. One of the questions that comes to mind as we talk about people and how they are impacted by manipulation, and how if your employees are happy, they are going to also make sure that your customers are happy. They're going to go the extra mile. When I think about these concepts, it immediately makes me think about having a strong and productive sales function. And so I'd love to hear from you about what the human centered approach is for building an amazing sales function.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:17:28] Very interesting, very interesting. Well, we have to change the paradigm because most of the companies have a sales paradigm, and in my research I use a different paradigm, a completely different way of seeing business and seeing the relationship with the customer. I call this service paradigm. This means serving customer. Instead of trying to sell products to customer, you try to serve customer. And being of service doesn't mean servitude. This means that you look for the best, for this stakeholder, for the customer. You try to be less self-centered and try to focus on the customer needs. This means that you try to find out what the customer needs are first, and try, if possible, to meet these needs and if possible, to exceed this need. This means you try to delight customers. This means giving them more that they need.

Sara Sheehan: [00:18:25] Surprise and delight.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:18:27] Surprise and delight. Try to engage them in a positive relationship, in a long term relationship. You don't adopt a transactional approach, it means a one off sale, but you try to bring a long term relationship and try to assist customers not only before sales, during the sale process and post sales. And also customers that are responding to this approach where the company tries to delight them, feel that the company care for them, and this customer tend to respond very positively. There is a lot of research on delight and customer service, and they observe that when customers are delighted, they are more prone to become loyal to this company and they are more prone to leave positive reviews. They are more prone also to recommend these companies products to other customer, and they might become silent or overt ambassadors of this company's product, recommended silently or in close circles to friends, but recommending this product overtly, for example, using social media to other potential customers.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:34] Absolutely, become an influencer. Absolutely. I just want to double click on one of the terms that you use, just to make sure that it's really clear. Is it a service principal? Is that what you were mentioning?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:19:48] The attitude of service or attitude of serving customers.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:51] Yes. I couldn't agree more with that. Why are generosity and gratitude not part of business anymore?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:20:08] Because people are focused on the urgent. This means that first off, they are not focused on building strong relationships with stakeholders. Why? Because they have, in many cases in the workplace, they have tight deadlines. They have multiple projects that are complex and in some cases with very urgent delivery of this project. But in practice, in many cases, people believe that being generous is giving only tangible things to others. For example, if the company is generous with employees, they might believe that it is only paying bonuses according to the employees performance. But a company can, for example, a boss in the workplace can be generous with their subordinates in different ways. For example, giving them intangible things. For example, if the manager sees that the employee is worried, concerned, this manager can give an ear and listen to this employee's concerns to see if they have family problems or health problems or some issues at home in order that they can provide with some support. For example, flexible time or some days off and so on. They can give some coaching, they can give some mentoring, they can give technical advice. They can provide this employee with valuable information, information about training or workshop or seminars so this means they can give thanks to this employee for their contribution. So generosity and gratitude are very connected.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:21:40] And in practice, most companies are focusing on obtaining. Obtaining market share. I want more profit as a company, I want more customers. And there should be a balance between obtaining and giving. Most companies are focusing on themselves, on obtaining, on getting wealthier, bigger, more productive. But as anything in life, there should be a balance between being self-centered and being centered on others. So when you are generous, you are focusing on the well-being of others, and this helps generate a positive cycle of generosity. And about gratitude, we can comment about some study that when people are thankful to others, these people are feeling more engaged in the workplace. They feel connected. Why? Because they feel that their contribution counts. They feel valuable as employees and they feel that they are making a positive difference to the company's mission and to the world in general. To different stakeholders, bringing about more well-being to different stakeholders, customers and other employees, and so on. So when people are acting in an ungenerous way, they tend to be much more self-centered. What is in it for me, and this is not the right question. When you are generous is how can I help others? How can I support others? And this helps. Being generous builds strong, long lasting relationships. Also, when people witness act of generosity, they tend to be infected by this act in a positive way. They tend to become much more generous. So this means that generosity begets more generosity.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:15] Yes, I've noticed that.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:23:17] When people are not generous, they tend to become, or people around tend to follow this example. Being stingy or self-centered.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:25] Absolutely. When you're giving and you're willing to share with others, they are going to be willing to pay it forward. I've seen quite a bit of that in my career, and I feel like it is so very powerful to be generous and kind to others. And I want to see that repeating cycle where it repeats in the future.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:23:59] Very interesting. I want to comment about a very little experience. I'm half Italian and I used to drink a lot of cappuccino, and here in London there are many coffee shops that are very famous big chains. And I went once to a coffee shop, and I talked to the waiter and the waiter told me, we will bring the coffee to your table. Don't worry, there will be a couple of minutes. 15, 20 minutes later they came with a coffee and the coffee was cold, delivered late. I went to the competing company two days later, and the same. Similar type of cappuccino, told me go to the table, we will bring the cappuccino to your table. And when they left the cappuccino on the table, the waiter, two minutes later, only a very short time, they brought a tray with a biscuit and I said, sorry, you forgot the tray with the biscuit. I didn't order this. No, no, this is not a mistake. This is for you. It's a gift from the house to enjoy your cappuccino. Look at the difference. The first company couldn't even meet the basic need. Bringing a cappuccino on time and hot. The second company, look at the detail. Small details count. How much these biscuits cost this company? Probably a few cents, but in practice make a lot of difference. Why? Because the company tries to focus on my satisfaction. They were acting in a non-manipulative way. They were trying to exceed my needs. And I enjoy this biscuit because they were the perfect match with the cappuccino. And which company do you think that I still go and have a cappuccino?

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:38] I think you go to the latter.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:25:40] Yes, exactly. So this means that generosity makes a lot of difference.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:44] That is a wonderful example. Truly, I very much appreciate that. Talk with me, Bruno, about what big goals and aspirations you're currently working on right now.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:25:58] Well, we are training companies on compassionate business. And also I'm working on my new book that I cannot reveal the topic because of confidentiality. And also we are training companies on compassionate business and international marketing. I continually research on business topics, and also I'm teaching at various universities here in the UK, and my goal is to disseminate these ideas as much as possible. And also maybe in 20 years time we will talk again and all companies will be compassionate and this topic will be completely outdated. But a dream would have come true and hopefully this will come.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:44] Absolutely. Well, I know you're going to make a difference, because you're going to help people to understand that when they stay in a negative mindset, they're only hurting themselves, and they really need to think about how their people feel around them and doing things so that you're creating an environment that's motivating and engaging. If you care about your people, your business will take care of itself.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:27:18] So true, so true. I completely agree. It doesn't take a lot of time to be compassionate. There is a very interesting piece of research that observed that it takes a very short time to engage in a compassionate conversation with others. For example, in the health sector, there is a case of doctors that were to go through a very serious operation with some patients that were very critical. And these doctors engaged in a one minute conversation with this patient before the operation, because the patient was very anxious, very stressed. When they went through the operation, they noticed that this patient needed less anesthesia as compared with the patient that didn't have this one minute conversation, soothing conversation. And also the recovery time was shorter for this patient, that they have only a one minute compassionate conversation with the doctor. Why? Because they felt more supported. This is very incredible. So this means that compassion is not only supporting but has very tangible effects. Mental and emotional.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:29] It has physical, medical benefits that will help you recover faster in an operative situation. My goodness, that is just phenomenal. I know I've always preferred to work with doctors that are better on the bedside manner side, and maybe that's a window into why I've always been motivated in that way. That is truly fascinating. Well, now I would like to ask you, Bruno, what does being a transformational thinker mean to you?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:29:14] Being a transformational thinker means to me that, well, I have some good examples of transformational thinkers such as Stephen Covey and also Peter Drucker. Transformational thinker implies making a difference in the world. Small or big difference, doesn't matter. Why? Because the propagation of this idea brings about small ripple effects. But this ripple effect compounds and I strongly believe that anyone can be compassionate in organization regardless of their role. Doesn't matter if you are the CEO or you are the janitor cleaning the toilet, you can always bring about positive influence and bring about positive role model that will allow others to emulate this model and also bring about wider effects in this organization. So this means that the transformational leader brings about a ripple effect that brings about, at the end, a bigger impact on organization, but also on the organization environment. The cases that I mentioned in the book about companies that are compassionate, they are not only bringing about a better workplace, but also they are bringing about a better world, a better relationship, a better relationship with suppliers, a better relationship with the community members, a better relationship with customers, and so on. So this means that they bring about what the experts call win, win, win, win agreements. Everyone wins. Nobody wins at the expense of others.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:47] Yes. Having mutually beneficial situations across the board, that is a very powerful way to engage with others. When everyone wins, it makes everyone excited to engage and that is a very positive energy. It just makes me smile and light up when I'm thinking about it. I want to work with people that want win win situations. And additionally, I want to help people win, too.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:31:28] So true. Because imagine if there is a win lose agreement. The relationship won't prosper. Won't thrive. Why? Because nobody wants to be in a relationship, business relationship or non business. Where one wins at the expense of other. And they might feel manipulated. Instead, when people are center of developing this agreement that are mutually beneficial, the relationship not only prospers, but tends to become stronger over time. Much more solid. Much more robust.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:59] Yes. We've had a fascinating conversation today, is there anything that's coming to mind that you would like to share?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:32:10] Yes, I want to share a couple of self-reflection questions for the listeners. To implement this in a very practical way. I feel that any of the listeners could ask themselves this question on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if they are the CEO or working as an employee in this organization in any level. How can I be more compassionate with different stakeholders? How can I be more compassionate with my colleagues? How can I be more compassionate with customers and with any other stakeholder that I'm related to? But also, how can I support them when they face difficulties? How can I be more generous, and how can I be more grateful to them for their contribution? And also, this is a very important point to think about this, because any of the listeners can make positive impact on the internal environment of the company, the workplace and the external environment, too.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:10] That's a wonderful thought to end on. I love the thought provoking nature of just reflecting on, how can I be more generous? How can I do more for others from a truly authentic place in my heart? That is a very powerful reflection. I thank you so very much for that. Can you tell me how our listeners can find you?

Bruno Cignacco: [00:33:48] They can find me on LinkedIn, or they can find me, for example, they can check one of my website, www.brunocignacco.com, with double C. Or they can find my books. For example, the Art of Compassionate Business can be found online or offline. The second edition is with a white cover and include hundreds of examples of compassionate organizations from different sectors and sizes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:14] Fantastic. I thank you so much for your time today.

Bruno Cignacco: [00:34:18] Thank you very much.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:20] Thank you so much for joining this wonderful conversation today with Dr. Bruno Cignacco. We dove deep into the art of compassionate business, where Bruno shares invaluable insights on how compassion can revolutionize the workplace and drive success. The three big takeaways from today's conversation: First, embrace compassion alongside productivity. Dr. Cignacco emphasizes the importance of integrating qualitative aspects like compassion, camaraderie, and engagement with quantitative ones such as productivity and profitability for a thriving business. Second, foster a loving workplace by cultivating compassion, empathy, and support. Companies can boost employee satisfaction, reduce absenteeism and turnover, and create a ripple effect that positively impacts customers and profits. Third, practice generosity and gratitude. Generosity in the workplace goes beyond tangible rewards. Intangible acts like listening, mentoring, and providing support can create a positive cycle that builds strong and lasting relationships with employees and customers alike. This conversation is absolutely groundbreaking. No one is talking about compassion and business, and I would love to create a ripple effect of not only people talking about being compassionate in the workplace, but the actual manifestation of more compassion at work, where people are actually caring about their employees, and their businesses thrive at a much higher level. As always, subscribe to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan and never miss an episode.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Terry Tucker, a speaker, international podcast guest on the topic of motivation, and author of “Sustainable Excellence: Ten Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life”. Terry has a storied history including working as a marketing executive, hospital administrator, and SWAT hostage negotiator, in addition to surviving cancer. Sara and Terry talk about his books, his cancer journey, and why communication and connection are vital to living extraordinary lives.

Our job doesn’t always have to embody our purpose, which is a lesson Terry learned through living and now widely shares. He stresses that we should lean into our soul’s purpose to fulfill our lives. He also learned the secrets to effective communication through his time as a hostage negotiator and explains why the 7% how you communicate, 38% words you say, and 55% body language and expressions formula is so important to consider. Of course, a large part of communication is listening and that leads to greater connection, which Terry says is his greatest focus in life currently.

Sara Sheehan and Terry Tucker explore how to foster deeper connections and why those connections are so important to both life and success. Terry reflects on his cancer journey by discussing how life will always bring us challenges and adversity and that it’s how we rise from adversity and what we learn from it that defines us going forward. Sara Sheehan learns that Terry wouldn’t change the course of his life because he believes cancer made him a better person and that his next book will focus on being of service to ourselves, our families and friends, and our communities. This motivational episode is not to be missed.

About Terry Tucker:

Terry Tucker is a sought-after speaker who believes in the power of a good story to motivate, inspire, and encourage others to lead their uncommon and extraordinary lives.

By combining his twelve-year cancer journey with his diverse business, athletic coaching, and law enforcement expertise, he delivers compelling yet relatable presentations for conferences, virtual events, panels, meetings, and seminars.

Terry is the Founder of Motivational Check LLC and has a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Administration from The Citadel and a Master's degree from Boston University.

He has been an NCAA Division I college basketball player, a marketing executive, a hospital administrator, a customer service manager, a SWAT Hostage Negotiator, a business owner, a high school basketball coach, and a cancer warrior.

He is the author of the book Sustainable Excellence, Ten Principles To Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life. Terry has been featured in Authority, Thrive Global, and Human Capital Leadership magazines. In addition, he is quoted in the new book, Audaciousness, Your Journey To Living A Bold And Authentic Life by Maribel Ortega and Helen Strong

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection” by Charles Duhigg
• “The Anxious Generation” by Jonathan Haidt
• “Do Hard Things” by Steve Magness

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Terry Tucker:

• Website: MotivationalCheck.com
• Book: “Sustainable Excellence: Ten Principles To Leading Your Uncommon And Extraordinary Life” by Terry Tucker
• LinkedIn
• YouTube

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:33] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm speaking with Terry Tucker. He is a speaker, author and international podcast guest on the topics of motivation, mindset and self-development. He has a Business Administration degree from The Citadel where he played NCAA Division One college basketball, which I love, and a master's degree from Boston University. He held many diverse professional roles in his career, including being a marketing executive, a hospital administrator, a SWAT hostage negotiator, and most recently for the past 12 years, a true cancer warrior. He is the author of the book Sustainable Excellence: Ten Principles to Leading Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life, and he is featured as an author of the new book Perspectives on Cancer: Stories of Healing, Hope and Resilience. He has been published in Authority Magazine, Thrive Global and Human Capital Leadership magazines. He is also continuing to write and has a current book underway, which we will discuss today. Terry, I am so excited to have you in conversation today. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to shed light on all that you've learned in your very fascinating career and life.

Terry Tucker: [00:03:33] Well, Sara, thanks for having me on. I'm really looking forward to talking with you today.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:37] Thank you so very much. Terry, in your career, I find it fascinating that you pivoted from traditional business roles into being a SWAT hostage negotiator. And I know that choosing an opportunity in law enforcement was very important to you personally. What would you say that you learned when you went into that role?

Terry Tucker: [00:04:09] I think one of the biggest things that I'm proud of in my life is that I never let my dream die. As you mentioned, my first two jobs were in the business world. I was in the corporate headquarters of Wendy's International, the hamburger chain, my marketing role. And then I went to work for the hospital that had treated my father and my grandmother before they had passed away of cancer. So, just a little bit of the back story. My dad's father, my grandfather, was a Chicago police officer from 1924 to 1954, and in 1933, he was shot in the line of duty with his own gun. It was not a serious injury, he was shot in the ankle. When I expressed an interest in going into law enforcement, my dad recalled all the stories my grandmother used to tell of that knock on the door. Mrs. Tucker, grab your son, come with us. Your husband's been shot. And my dad was, absolutely not. You're going to college, you're going to major in business. You're going to get out. You're going to get married, have 2.4 kids and live happily ever after. But that's the job, that's the role, that's the life my father wanted me to live. That wasn't the life that I felt I was supposed to live. And so when I graduated from college, my father was dying of cancer, and I had probably my first big adult decision choice to make.

Terry Tucker: [00:05:32] I could have said, sorry dad, I know you're dying of cancer, but I'm going to go do my own thing and blaze my own trail, or out of love and respect for you, I will do what you want me to do. And so that's where my first two jobs were in business. And I sort of joke, I did what every good son did. I waited till my father passed away and I followed my own dreams. And I know I'm not unique in that. I know there are a lot of people out there probably listening to us that, somebody in their family wants them to go into the family business or wants them to be a lawyer, like dad was a lawyer or whatever it ends up being. And that's not what they feel they're supposed to do. That's not what they feel is their calling. And that's a really hard thing, I think, to deal with, especially when it's a family member. And when it's a family member that's doing it, not because they're trying to hurt you or out of spite, but because they love you and they want something that they feel is better for you. So I guess that's kind of a long-winded answer to your question, but like I said, I am incredibly proud that I never let my dream, my purpose die. And I actually made that pivot to go into law enforcement at 37 years of age.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:36] That's amazing. Talk with us a little bit about how that helped you live out your purpose.

Terry Tucker: [00:06:43] I guess I need to back up a little bit. We, I think a lot of times, talk about purpose as a singular thing or a singular event. And at least in my life, purpose has been plural. It's been purposes. When I was younger, I felt my purpose was to be an athlete. And then, as I said, I felt my purpose was to get into law enforcement. And now, in all honesty, with my cancer, is I'm probably coming towards the end of my life. I feel my purpose has shifted or pivoted again to put as much goodness, positivity, motivation, and love back into the world as I can. We always like to think that if we could have that purpose, that it would be aligned with our job or our occupation. That would be great. But it doesn't have to be. Your job could be over here, it's what you do to pay the bills, but your purpose is over here. To be a podcast host or to be an author or a painter or an activist or whatever you feel. I'll end with this, and I tell this especially when I speak to young people, if there's something in your heart, something in your soul that you feel you're supposed to do, but it scares you, go ahead and do it. Because at the end of your life, the things you're going to regret are not going to be those things you did. They're going to be those things you didn't do. And by then, it's going to be too late to go back and do them.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:10] That is absolutely beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that with me and with our listeners. In conversation with you, Terry, you had mentioned to me one of the things that you learned in being a SWAT hostage negotiator, that you learned an awful lot about listening, asking the right questions, having effective communication in those very difficult situations. And you had shared with me that it's only about 7% is how you communicate a message, where 38% of it are the actual words that you use, and 55% of what you're doing in communicating is the actual body language or expressions that you're bringing to the message that you're sending to the other party. I do find that fascinating. And so if you could talk a little bit about what went into you learning more about how you convey a message effectively and get someone to communicate with you that may not want to.

Terry Tucker: [00:09:39] That 7/38/55 formula that I was given when I became a hostage negotiator applies to how we, not just police officers and that, but how we as human beings communicate with each other. And the interesting thing about that is understanding that as we were negotiating with people, if somebody was barricaded with a gun in a room, I was not in the room with that person. I, more than likely, was blocks away talking on the phone, so I didn't have the benefit of that 55% of seeing body language or facial expressions. For example, of saying something, well, Sara, what do you think about this? And then have you kind of roll your eyes and be like, oh, I can't believe he said that to me. I didn't have that luxury. So we got good at figuring things out, certainly based on what people were saying or telling us, but also what they weren't saying and how they were saying it. The overarching theme of what we were doing, and I think the overarching thing of any relationship that you have in your life, whether it's with your spouse, your kids, your boss, your friends, whatever, is trust. If you don't trust that person, it's very hard to have any kind of relationship. So we were trying to build trust with an individual that number one, was probably having the worst day of their life. If you're talking to me and your house or apartment is surrounded not by the police. Yeah, not having a good day.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:04] Not having a good day.

Terry Tucker: [00:11:06] And secondly, somebody we've never met, and in many cases, had no idea why we were there. What precipitated this? What got us to this point? So we were trying to develop trust, and we did that through empathy. And empathy was basically, for example, if you and I were negotiating, it would be, well, Sara, help me to understand where you're coming from. And the big word there is understand, because I want to understand where you're coming from. I'm not necessarily going to agree with you. If you're a homicide suspect that just killed three people, I'm not going to say what you did was right. But I need to understand where you're coming from, because empathy builds trust. And trust gets to a point where I can try to change behavior, getting you out safely or getting the hostages out safely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:55] This is so applicable in many environments. It doesn't have to just be in a hostage situation. Learning to have a better conversation is applicable in any part of your life. One of the books that I'm reading right now is very applicable in this discussion. It's by Charles Duhigg and it is Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection. It is a wonderful book. He proposes that there are truly only three conversations that we have in life. They are practical conversations, where we're trying to get to answer the question, what's this really about? There are emotional conversations that help us understand how we feel about something. And then finally, there are social conversations that define who we are. By recognizing the type of conversation that we're having, we can seek to connect with the others in the conversation more if the tactics that we use match up with the type of conversation that we're having. In your situation, you were in a very high-stress, high-stakes situation. If you could understand more about what's going on for the individual in that very difficult position, you might be able to find a way to negotiate with them that would work, correct?

Terry Tucker: [00:13:42] Absolutely. We used to talk about what we did, we tried to make it simple. We've all been, when we're little kids, to the park and played on the teeter-totter or the see-saw. When we started negotiating with somebody, usually their emotional brain was way up in the air and their rational brain was down on the ground. And by asking open-ended questions, we would use 'how and what' questions, we would stay away from 'why' questions. Because if, for example, if I said to you, well, Sara, why did you wear that today? Wait a minute, do you not like what I'm wearing? 'Why' questions sound accusatory. So we would use 'how' and 'what' questions, and we would get the person to burn off a lot of that emotional energy and try to get that teeter-totter to equilibrium. And then by continuing to talk, to dialog, hopefully get to the point where the person's rational brain was up in the air and their emotional brain was down on the ground. Because we all make better decisions for ourselves using our rational brain than our emotional. We would never, I mean, it could be hours into the conversation. We were not talking about solutions.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:58] Understood. You're just trying to get them to calm down. Clearly it's an emotional discussion. Clearly it is. Trying to get someone to get out of their head, literally, and calm down, cool off and have a little bit more of a level frame of mind was critical. Tell me, Terry, what would you like to double down on, or focus on, so that you can have more impact in your life?

Terry Tucker: [00:15:35] I'm going to shift gears a little bit now, and I would say it would be connection. One of the nurses who cares for me now, I still have tumors in my lungs, gave me a book called Imagine Heaven, and it's about people who had near-death experiences and many interesting things in the book. But one of the big things I took away was that no matter who the person having that near-death experience saw or encountered, the one question almost everybody got asked is how do you treat my people? In other words, how do we treat each other? How do we connect with each other? How do we work together with each other? If COVID taught us anything, it's how much we need each other. When we were isolated, and today we are isolated. We've got these devices that we take, well, how I feel today depends on what's said on this device. We put our sunglasses on and our earbuds on and we walk around like, don't talk to me, don't involve me. I don't want to have anything to do with you. We need that connection. We are better together than we are separately. I mean, during COVID, alcoholism rates went up, drug abuse rates went up, domestic violence rates went up, divorce rates went up. Because we're not good separate. We need each other. So the answer to your question is connection. I'm looking for more connection with people in my life. It's not money, it's not power, it's not influence. It's connection with other human beings.

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:06] That is so critical. And I believe it's very healing when we're able to truly plugin with another person and engage in a transformational way. It's so powerful. I'm also reading right now a book called The Anxious Generation which I highly recommend, and it actually speaks at length about how bad technology is in social media and how it's changing childhood in a negative way. So you're on to much more than what you're just feeling in your heart. There's many hypotheses out there about how we need to connect with others at a much deeper level, to make our world a better place to live. Literally. Tell me, Terry, what do you think you've learned on your cancer journey?

Terry Tucker: [00:18:15] I've learned a lot of things, but two important things that I've learned are, number one, I don't think you really know yourself until you've been tested by some form of adversity in your life. And if you live long enough, you're going to be tested by adversity. Something bad is going to happen to you. The writer Ernest Hemingway had a great quote that went, life breaks everyone, and afterward many are stronger at the broken places. So as I said, you're going to experience adversity in your life. Somebody close to you is going to die. You're unexpectedly going to get let go from your job. You're going to find out you have a chronic or a terminal illness. Life is going to beat you to your knees, but you can also learn from that and rise from that and be stronger. So I don't think you know yourself until you've been tested by adversity. And the second thing, and this is going to sound really crazy, is cancer has made me a better human being. It's made me focus on the things that I think are really important in life. I mean, when I was young and playing sports, I mean, was it nice? Yeah. Was it fun? Absolutely. But was it important? Probably not. And now that I don't have a left leg because of my cancer, I'm in a wheelchair, you kind of balance those things. And I think when you can't do what you're good at, you do what's important in life. And that's what I've been doing. And I don't think, honestly, if you ask me, if you could live your life over again without cancer, I'm not so sure that I would, because I think cancer has made me a better human being.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:52] That is deeply profound. That's remarkable, it truly is. And it tells me that in your heart, you know that your transformation is truly significant.

Terry Tucker: [00:20:08] Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. Like I said, it focuses you on what's important. For me, what's important are what I call my three F's. Faith, family and friends. That's really, to me, what's important in life.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:20] And focusing on what's important makes every day better. And so, Terry, I know that you are continuing to be active in writing and in authoring books, and I know that you have one that you're currently working on, and I would love to talk about it if you're open to it today. Talk with me about what you're currently writing and what you're writing about.

Terry Tucker: [00:20:48] So I'm writing my second book that focuses more on service. My first book was a book I felt about success, how I saw success or how I thought people could be successful. When I wrote that book, I always kind of had an itch, so to speak, that I need to write a book, or I'd like to write a book about another word that begins with S, and that word is service. And so this second book is more about not necessarily how you can be successful, but how you can be of service to yourself, to your family, to your friends, to your community. And don't get me wrong, I think you can be both. I think you can be successful and be a servant in life. I learned a lot in college about servant leadership. I went to a military college and I learned about servant leadership. Leaders eat last, how you support people, how you care for them, how you make them better. Another one I always speak to young people, I always tell them this. It's more important who you work with and for, than it is the work that you do. Find people that care about you. Find people that are willing to invest in you. Find people that want you to be successful, and hitch your wagon to those people and climb your mountains together.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:10] That is amazing advice. I hope that anyone that is at the beginning of their career, in their earlier days, that they are listening and they are taking that to heart because that is absolutely right on. The people that you grow with will be the people that take care of you. And if you're not in a position where you're growing, find people that will help you grow in the right way. So that is absolutely beautiful. Is there one through-line that you could describe in the book that's the most important message?

Terry Tucker: [00:22:59] I've got these ten principles in the book, and I don't think any of them are necessarily more important than the other. Although the more I think about it, the more you ask that question, I think there is one. And it's the last principle. It's the importance of love in our life. And I'm not talking about romantic kind of love. When I was younger, I was a big fan of a basketball coach at the University of California at Los Angeles by the name of John Wooden. I read everything he wrote, I read articles about him. And I remember one day I was listening to an interview that he was giving with a sports reporter, and I was sitting there with a pad of paper and a pencil, and I was ready to, come on, coach, give me some good X's and O's, things that I could use on the basketball court. The reporter asked him, what's the most important thing that you want your players to learn or to understand or to come away with, from their time as basketball players at UCLA? And I'm on the edge of my seat, alright here, this could be something great. And he said, I want my players to understand the importance of love. As a 13-year-old kid, I was like, no! Love, are you kidding me? I could care less about love. Come on, coach, give me something good. But what he was saying with that is, I want my players to understand the importance of loving themselves, of loving what they do, of loving their teammates and things like that. And I didn't get that as a 13-year-old kid. I was not emotionally intelligent enough to understand that. But as I've grown, and I think that's why I put it as the last principle in the book, that love is the most important thing that any of us will ever experience or ever do in our lives.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:35] I really appreciate you sharing that. And I think that there are so many people in the world that would be happier at work and in their personal life if they had more love, whether it is their boss and how their boss treats them, their team at work and how they work together, their family at home, and how they conduct themselves and care for one another. More love is absolutely transformational. I can't wait to read the book, Terry, I can't wait to read it. Talk with me about what your big goals and aspirations are that you're currently working on.

Terry Tucker: [00:25:26] I don't focus that much anymore on goals, so to speak. I look at the processes that I have in my life. Are those processes where they need to be? How can I make them better? How are they serving me in terms of my life and things like that? I figure if I've got the processes in place that the goals or the things that I'm interested in will come with those things. In all honesty, I want to connect with other people to get more information out there about disease, about how you can overcome it, how you can fight it. I think cancer, I had this discussion with my oncologist a couple of weeks ago, cancer's getting to be, it used to be a death sentence. Oh my God, I got cancer. I'm going to die. There's nothing I can do. And I think cancer is moving more from a death sentence to more of a chronic illness. You may have it for your entire life, but you're going to be able to live a decent life with that because they have so many different things. When I was diagnosed in 2012, I was told I'd be dead in two years. And now, 12-plus years later, I'm still here. I'm dealing with a chronic disease and I probably will for my whole life.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:38] Exactly. I definitely experienced that myself with my father's case, in that he had very advanced colorectal cancer that he was diagnosed with, and he was told he had a very small chance of living a few years, and he ended up living 15 years. And it wasn't enjoyable or pretty for him. But that, I believe, was the beginning of them being able to treat and find pathways to help someone continue forward. I'm hopeful that treatment will truly progress in future years, where the patient can retain more choices in what they do and retain a higher quality of life is what I would say. Very interesting. One of the comments that you shared with me there really tells me that if you're looking at the processes that are in your life, you're thinking about what your habits are. And if you're thinking about what your habits are and what you're doing, you're tuned in to where you are on the healthy scale.

Terry Tucker: [00:28:05] I would absolutely agree.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:08] Interesting. Very good stuff. Terry, what does being a transformational thinker mean to you?

Terry Tucker: [00:28:15] I guess I would equate it to being a lifelong learner, of never being to a point where I've figured it all out or I know it all. I would, in all honesty, like to die learning. And I think if you can take that knowledge and apply it in your life. Think about it. What does that mean? I don't think we think enough. We don't spend enough time with ourselves. I read a really great book called Do Hard Things by a man by the name of Steve Magness, and he talks about a study that was done at the University of Minnesota, where they took students, put them in a room with nothing else. No devices, no pens, pencils, anything. Just a table, a chair. And the only other thing in the room was a buzzer, and they asked the student to stay in there 15, 20 minutes. Not a long time. And it was amazing, 68% of the men and 25% of the women pressed that buzzer. And when you press the buzzer, and you knew this, you were going to get an electric shock. What the study basically concluded was, we're not comfortable in our own skin. We're not comfortable with our own thoughts. So I think being a transformational thinker means being able to be comfortable with our own thoughts, and then taking those thoughts and applying them to the world outside of us to make life better for ourselves and for others.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:36] That is a great book, by the way. Doing Hard Things. And that's something that I feel like we as a society have gotten off rails with a bit. So I definitely appreciate that mention. And yes, we need to get more comfortable not only with ourselves, but being present and being mindful seems to be a huge task today. Very difficult and trying for some people. Excellent. Terry, is there anything else that you are working on that you would like to share?

Terry Tucker: [00:30:13] I'm also working on working with two doctors to basically do a webinar that sort of marries the traditional western medicine with some of the other things, in terms of what we eat, meditation, things like that. Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, but maybe finding the best of both worlds that can help people from a medical point of view, and also from a mental or a mindset point of view as well.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:41] Yes, I love the idea of making sure that we're taking note of what we're eating and what else we can do that might be more natural or organic and less harmful. I will be very interested to see what comes of that discussion, and would love to even share it if there's a link that I could share in the future with my network or listeners. Excellent. And so, Terry, tell me, how would our listeners find you?

Terry Tucker: [00:31:16] I have a website/blog called Motivational Check. Every day I put up a thought for the day, and with that thought usually comes a question. But Motivational Check is the easiest way to get a hold of me. You can leave me a message there and I respond to everybody who reaches out.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:33] Excellent. Well, Terry, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your time and appreciate your story. You have so much light and positivity to share that the world desperately needs.

Terry Tucker: [00:31:47] Well, Sara, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed talking with you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:50] Excellent. Well, thanks so much.

Sara Sheehan [00:31:52]: Thank you so much for listening to Episode 18. We had such a fabulous conversation. Three big takeaways from my discussion with Terry Tucker include: First, pursuing purpose and overcoming fear. Terry Tucker emphasizes the importance of pursuing one's true purpose in life despite fear or external objections. He shares his personal journey of transitioning from traditional business roles to becoming a SWAT hostage negotiator, driven by personal significance over familial expectations. This reflects the underlying message of not letting fear dictate your life's direction to avoid future regrets. Second, effective communication and building trust. Drawing from his experience as a negotiator, Tucker highlights that effective communication relies heavily on body language and tone, not just words. Building trust through empathetic and open ended conversations, especially in difficult or high stakes situations like hostage negotiations, is crucial. These skills are applicable in various settings, emphasizing the importance of connection and understanding in human interactions. Third, integrating love and empathy for a fulfilled life. Tucker shares insights learned from legendary basketball coach John Wooden about loving oneself, loving what one does and loving others. He underscores the necessity of incorporating love and empathy in both personal and professional relationships to lead a happier and more meaningful life. His focus on serving others, and his evolving perspective on goals and processes, particularly in the face of his chronic illness and advocacy for cancer research, further illustrate the principle. Thank you so much for joining us for this fascinating conversation with Terry Tucker. I do hope that you will share your thoughts in the comments, and that you will subscribe and never miss an episode.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Linda Fisk, the Founder and Chairwoman of LeadHERship Global, a community of unstoppable women enhancing their leadership blueprint and embracing their power. Linda is an award-winning CEO, TEDx speaker, best-selling author, keynote speaker, and university professor. She talks with Sara about the goals and successes of LeadHERship Global, the power of women, and what she sees coming up in her future.

Linda found her genius work by being part of leadership organizations that allowed her to meet other inspirational leaders. Leaders coming together who align against a particular challenge or issue create a greater impact and accelerate success. This understanding and love for leadership alignment translated into creating the global community of LeadHERship Global where she found like-minded leaders collaborating for a supportive community where women have access to the same privileges and benefits that men benefit from.

Sara Sheehan and Linda Fisk discuss how LeadHERship Global ushers members into high-powered C-Suite positions or inspires them to start their own businesses, why sustainable impact and giving back are a vital part of what they work on, and the partnership with She Talks that provides a speaker summit only for women. Linda shares her own story and the goals and ambitions that drive her forward, including an opportunity called The InvestHER Fest to connect entrepreneurs to investors. What Linda has to say is enlightening and deeply inspirational. Her devotion to the betterment of opportunities for women and the desire to uplift all women into impactful change will challenge us all to realize our best potential.

About Linda Fisk:

Linda Fisk is a multi-award-winning leader, keynote speaker, podcast host, TEDx speaker, best-selling author and university professor dedicated to amplifying and extending the success of other high-calibre business leaders. She is the CEO of LeadHERship Global, a community of unstoppable women enhancing their leadership blueprint and embracing their power to be the best version of themselves- in work and life. As Chairwoman of LeadHERship Global, Linda supports and guides ambitious, creative women to move in the direction of their purpose, their mission and their dreams with powerful connections, critical support, practical tools and valuable resources to show up, speak up and step up in their careers and personal lives.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Linda Fisk:

• Website: LeadHERshipGlobal.com
• Email: linda@leadhershipglobal.com
• Linda Fisk LinkedIn
• LeadHERship Global LinkedIn
• LeadHERship Global Instagram

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with Linda Fisk, founder and chairwoman of LeadHERship Global, a community of unstoppable women enhancing their leadership blueprint and embracing their power to be the best version of themselves in work and in life. In LeadHERship Global, Linda supports and guides ambitious, creative women to move in the direction of their purpose, their mission, and their dreams with powerful connections, critical support, practical tools, and valuable resources to show up, speak up, and step up in their careers and personal lives. Linda is a multi-award winning CEO, TEDx speaker, five times international best-selling author, US Senator for the WBAF, keynote speaker and university professor, dedicated to amplifying and extending the success of other high-caliber business leaders. She is the Chairwoman of LeadHERship Global, an organization that I find truly fascinating. Linda, I am so excited to welcome you here today and to launch into this amazing discussion.

Linda Fisk: [00:01:32] Sara, thank you so much for letting me be a part of this incredible platform that you've created. I'm really honored and I'm excited about our conversation today.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:42] Excellent, Linda, thank you so much for that warm welcome. Can you share with me how you found your genius work?

Linda Fisk: [00:01:53] Well, I will tell you that I have had the good fortune of being a part of many leadership organizations. In fact, I served as the chief marketing officer for one executive leadership organization, and I served as the CEO of a second executive leadership organization, where I found that when leaders are able to come together and they're able to collaborate and coordinate efforts, then their impact can be doubled or tripled. I have found that these kinds of organizations allow you to meet other inspirational leaders, create lifelong friendships, and be surrounded by people who are deeply invested in your success. And I have found that incredible leaders coming together aligned against a particular issue or problem or challenge that they want to solve in-community, then not only is the impact greater, but they're able to accelerate the success together in a much quicker time frame, a much quicker pace than they could have by themselves. And so I knew that my purpose is to bring leaders together to create and support personal and professional breakthroughs. And in LeadHERship Global, we try to guide women to achieving greater leverage and greater freedom, both in their careers and in their businesses and their life.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:30] That is so incredibly powerful, and I cannot wait to work with you in that community, because I definitely will be a member of your community soon. I find what you're doing to be truly amazing. One of the things that I'm so intrigued about in your story, Linda, is the fact that you created your business after being the Chief marketing officer of the Young Presidents Organization. How did you know that this was the right next step for you after being in that role?

Linda Fisk: [00:04:08] I will say that YPO is one of the most successful and one of the most impactful organizations that you can be a part of, but the percentage of women that are a part of that organization is still extraordinarily small. At the time that I served in a C-suite position in YPO, the percent of women that was a part of that global organization of about 36,000 members, it was only 5%. And so somewhere between 5 and 10% of their global organization was comprised by women. The more that I began to dig into that to understand why, why would so few women join YPO and stay there? I found that women often didn't feel valued. They didn't feel listened to. They didn't feel honored and respected. Not by the management team, but by other members. And so I wanted to create an organization where women were inspired and motivated by other women leaders who would counsel them, who would cheer them on, who would support them to greater and greater levels of success and impact. I wanted to create a global organization where women felt honored, they felt valued, and they had access to the same sorts of privileges and benefits and unique opportunities that men typically are able to engage in.

Linda Fisk: [00:05:36] We now have a global community of world-class women, thought leaders and experts that are brought together to really collaborate and facilitate excellent outcomes for each other. We've created an incredibly impactful community of extraordinary women in leadership all around the globe. We have women in Africa and Europe, Australia, New Zealand, North America, South America, and we offer a pretty comprehensive methodology that's really designed to unleash the full potential of women in leadership all around the world. We want to attract high-performing and growth-oriented leaders and provide a safe, confidential, supportive and private community for them so that they can be transparent, they can be vulnerable, they can be honest about the challenges they're facing, the opportunities in front of them, and they have the benefit of unbiased, objective guidance and feedback from other women around the world who will tell them the truth, who will lift them up, who will provide counsel, who will really help them accelerate their success.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:47] And so just to double click on that a little bit, some of the participants, well, all of the participants in the community are women and all of the participants are entrepreneurs. Most have built their own businesses themselves and they are seeking support. They are seeking practical tools and guidance that will help them. Can we give a couple of specific examples of some of the things that a participant might be able to engage in, in the community?

Linda Fisk: [00:07:26] Absolutely. So the first thing I would note is that while the majority of the women that are part of LeadHERship Global have stepped into a role as business owner, business and founder, we also have a significant number of women who are business investors or who have been placed into the C-suite in a position like CEO, CTO, CMO at a large corporation. That corporation can be for-profit or nonprofit. But sometimes the Women in LeadHERship Global have been hired into a C-suite position. Other times, they have created their own business and they are now a business owner, a business founder, and leading incredible impact and change around the world by creating their own, usually social impact organization. So most of the women in LeadHERship Global are committed to some sort of social impact or social good or some sort of really positive change in the world. And so that's why I say that part of the benefit of LeadHERship Global is to meet inspirational leaders, to create not just lifelong friendships, but be surrounded by people who are deeply invested in your success. And so that's one of the first benefits that we offer is this idea of connection. But we also provide incredible learning events. What I have found is the very best leaders that I've ever met, both men and women, have embarked on a continuous discovery of learning, so they are lifetime learners that are deeply invested in their own development as a professional and as a person.

Linda Fisk: [00:09:15] So we provide learning that informs that perspective and nurtures new skill sets, new perspectives, new worldviews, new aptitudes. Because at every single stage of your career, you have to learn how to create sustainable impact and influence. And so, in LeadHERship Global, we have trust forms, leadership boards, accelerate webinars, we have global networking events. We have council meetings where we're able to showcase some of the most impactful world-class experts in business, in health, in spiritual development, in a range of topics that women have access to, again, at no charge, just through their membership. And then we also recognize that a big part of being able to grow and scale a business and to advance your own leadership journey is that you need to learn how to better serve others and to genuinely support their career advancement and their overall engagement and work. So we help women all over the world not only receive incredible access to funding and media opportunities and learning and connection, but we also help them become mindful of the opportunity and the responsibility that they have to serve their own advancement by serving others.

Linda Fisk: [00:10:46] We really believe that the most important sense of fulfillment and reward that you can receive is by giving back. That fulfilling feeling of giving back and contributing to others is absolutely unparalleled. In my estimation, true meaning, true purpose is about how you're able to better the lives of the people around you, your loved ones, the people in your community, the lives of the people in other places around the world. Meaning never comes from what you get, it comes from what you give. And so we provide opportunities to find ways to give back and to make an impact to other women around the world.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:30] I love it, and it is very aligned with the way that I lead and the way I want to lead and leave an impact on others. I think it's quite beautiful. How are you expanding your business today, Linda?

Linda Fisk: [00:11:47] I will tell you, we are always looking for opportunities with partners. So we have found that there are particular businesses that are very aligned in our mission and vision and purpose, but they have unique specialties that we don't. So we very intentionally and purposefully partner with aligned organizations and businesses that provide extraordinary opportunities for our members. So, for instance, we partnered recently with an organization called She Talks and they provide speaker summits only for women.

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:27] That's tremendous.

Linda Fisk: [00:12:29] Yes, and through that organization, we're able to offer our members the opportunity to step on a big stage in front of 5000 people and tell their story. So we have orderly speakings now. I think that's so important.

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:46] That is so powerful. It's so rare for some people to get that opportunity. And the fact that you're helping them to develop that skill in a safe way is wonderful for someone that's proactive and growth-oriented, because if they lean into it, they're only going to get better.

Linda Fisk: [00:13:09] Right. Sara, you said it so beautifully, that's it. And so we look for organizations like that. We also recently announced a partnership with a company called Scroobious, and Scroobious teaches and trains and coaches and consults with entrepreneurs so that they can win that ever-elusive venture capital investment. Scroobious teaches women entrepreneurs how to create a pitch deck, how to create a pitch presentation, how to organize their financials, how to weave their story into the pitch, and how to win over investors that may be looking to invest in a series A or a series B, or it may be an angel investor or a venture capitalist firm that's interested in supporting women owners, women operators. And so we help prepare women entrepreneurs to step into that boardroom with investors and be able to very convincingly, very confidently explain their vision, explain their mission, explain their business and receive that needed infusion of cash.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:21] That is phenomenal that you're mentoring women in that way, because that pays more than dividends. It truly paves the road ahead for their lives. That is phenomenal. Do you have any offerings that you're working on that are new, or ways that you're working with clients that are new?

Linda Fisk: [00:14:45] I love that you asked that. Thank you so much. We are always working on new offerings, new benefits, new privileges, new experiences for women in leadership. We want this to be a never-ending opportunity to be able to accelerate their success, no matter if their definition of success is: I want to write my first book, I want to stand on a TEDx stage, I want to have an award-winning podcast, I want to grow and scale my business from $1 million to $10 million, or $10 million to $100 million. Whatever their unique definition of success is, we want to give them access to the privileges, the benefits, the opportunities that will strengthen that position, but also accelerate the timeline to get to that vision, that goal, that objective. So one of the things that we have coming up that I'm super excited about is a global retreat. So this fall we're going to be announcing very shortly a global retreat where women have the opportunity to come together to network, to build relationships, to be able to learn and grow in community in one of the most picturesque, beautiful spots in the world. So more on that soon. But we are also getting ready to announce a new opportunity for women entrepreneurs to step into the limelight with their business idea or their fledgling business, and actually pitch it to investment groups. So we're calling it The InvestHERfest. And the InvestHERfest will connect entrepreneurs to investors so that they have an opportunity, much like Shark Tank, to present their idea, to demonstrate their vision, to explain their financials and to win investment dollars. So we're very, very excited about that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:42] That's incredible.

Linda Fisk: [00:16:43] And we're launching a series called Ask The Experts. Ask The Experts is an opportunity where our members have the incredible opportunity to step into the limelight by having a huge virtual event developed in their honor, where they get to teach and train and coach on their area of expertise to our other 10,000 members all around the world. So they step into the spotlight, it is their event, and we help them prepare their presentation and then present to our members about their area of expertise, their unique giftedness, experience, expertise that provides value to our members, but also raises the visibility and expands the thought leadership of that member.

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:36] That is unprecedented, and it's a large list. That is an amazing list of things that you're working on, Linda. That is amazing.

Linda Fisk: [00:17:48] I feel it every day, Sara. I am scurrying. We all are, on the team, working as quickly as we can to bring these things to light because there's so much opportunity for women, and we are so dedicated and determined and excited to bring these opportunities to women in leadership.

Sara Sheehan: [00:18:07] That's wonderful. And so, Linda, talk with me about what your big goals and aspirations are that you're currently working on.

Linda Fisk: [00:18:18] Our success is measured through our member success. We take count of the impact that we're able to create on behalf of our members. They report to us any time that they're able to create a new division of their company, or create a joint venture, or a partnership or collaboration that dramatically increases their success. And what I hear from our members are absolutely leaps forward in their ability to accelerate their success, often due to the relationships that they create within the community. I've seen nonprofits get fully funded to the tune of $1.7 million. I've seen new divisions of companies created through a partnership that now represent 37% of the overall revenue of that company. I've seen joint ventures created, collaborations developed. I have seen women get tapped for corporate boards or speaking opportunities because of their experience in LeadHERship Global. We've had women step into really significant speaking roles with a five-figure payout for that speaking role because of a podcast or a TV show or a speaker opportunity that was provided to them through LeadHERship Global. So our definition of success is absolutely contingent on the kinds of experiences and advances that our members are experiencing. We help members accelerate their success by defining their vision, growing their leadership, expanding their influence, and ultimately leaving a lasting legacy.

Linda Fisk: [00:20:10] We track and measure those things with our members, because we want to harness the knowledge, the influence and trust of high-performing women all over the world to stimulate idea exchange, to support creativity, to provide resources and tools that accelerate both personal and professional growth. And, in fact, we also know that we are a trusted resource to women who are in crisis. I have conversations with women every single week who are going through a divorce or the dissolution of a partnership or they've gone through some sort of personal crisis. Maybe they lost a son, a daughter, a mother, a father, and they turn to the team at LeadHERship Global to not only provide support and comfort, but to connect them to the kinds of caregivers that are a part of our network that then can surround them with the kind of support that they need in that time of crisis. Whether that's legal advice or whether that's therapeutic services or counseling services. Sometimes it's simply being surrounded by a group of women that they know care for them, and are deeply invested in their ability to move through this period into the next phase of their journey. So we also support people in their personal lives as well as their professional lives.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:42] That's a tremendous thing. It's much more than an online community when it becomes part of your life and part of your support network. That's tremendous. And so, Linda, what would you say being a transformational thinker means to you?

Linda Fisk: [00:22:05] Sara, what a great question. I think of impactful leadership as making long lasting, positive and meaningful contributions to organizations, communities, and in the lives of people. So transformational or true impactful leadership is that idea that it's not a transaction, it's not a one-time give and take, but it's about making a long-lasting, meaningful contribution to others. And to do that, I think you have to combine both your mind and your heart. You have to be able to step into a leadership role, recognizing that your mind and your heart need to both be active. You have to achieve sustainable goals and build lasting impact that is led by both your intuition, your heart, as well as your mind. And I think that to lead and achieve sustainable goals that do build lasting impact, it takes genuine and generous influence. It takes the opportunity to genuinely and generously influence and lead people to believe, to trust, and to join you in your mission. So women, I think, are uniquely well suited in that. In fact, some of the strengths that we take for granted as women actually help lead, especially in high-stakes situations. And I think that one of the most important qualities of a good leader is to be able to understand your unique giftedness, your strengths, your talents, and develop a unique leadership style that's based on your own values, your own character traits, your own talents, and to recognize that as a woman, involving both your heart and your mind in your leadership style is absolutely a strength.

Linda Fisk: [00:24:09] It's not a weakness, it's a strength. Serving with your mind and with your heart, incorporating an attitude of service to genuinely connect with other people in your life and earn their loyalty is one of the highest callings that we have as women and as leaders. And I think you have to be generous. You have to participate in the lives of those around you. You can't be solo, blinders on, focused on your own attainment of goals. You have to be open to participate and genuinely invest in the lives around you. You have to share your knowledge generously with those you lead. You have to be a role model to inspire and motivate people to move forward, and you have to stop and listen to those around you and understand what's happening in their life and how can you support, how can you help? Do you have a resource or a tool or a connection that might be useful to them? And so in my mind, being a transformational or impactful leader is about listening, it's about pausing long enough to really understand what's happening in the lives around you, and it's about consciously and purposefully making long-lasting, positive and meaning contributions in the lives of those around you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:33] That is wonderful. I hear so much in your voice about generosity and paying it forward, and I think it only comes back to us as a multiple. When we give, it is surprising at how wonderful that reciprocity is. Thank you for that.

Linda Fisk: [00:25:56] I agree, Sara. I will tell you that the most fulfilling feeling that you can have, is to know that you've been able to impact someone else's life, and you've been able to pay it forward. And as I said, women have been proven to hold a key advantage. And many of the soft skills associated with leadership. In fact, a study by the global consulting firm Hay Group found that women outperform men, and get this, 11 out of 12 key emotional intelligence competencies. In fact, the Hay Group found that women leaders tend to slightly outperform men in most leadership skills associated with emotional intelligence. So those are sometimes considered to be soft skills, but really it's the ability pertaining to the way you approach or handle others in your life. So empathy. Empathy absolutely wins in a crisis. But the difference in leadership between the genders grows even larger when there's any sort of crisis. Female leaders express more awareness of fears that their team members might be feeling. They express more concern for the well-being of their team, and they express, believe it or not, more confidence in their plans. So I will tell you, women have many, many attributes and sort of natural skill sets that they shouldn't try to hide or discount or discard. In fact, they should be doubling down on some of these competencies, like having an authentic communication leadership style, navigating through discomfort, navigating through imposter syndrome. Giving, and receiving actionable feedback.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:41] Absolutely. Those competencies of emotional intelligence are absolutely critical for success, and they know there's tangible research that if you improve your alignment on those competencies, it has a financial repercussion that is positive in your life. It's phenomenal. That's one of the many books that I'm reading right now, actually. Emotional Intelligence 2.0. And so, Linda, is there anything else that you're working on that you would like to share?

Linda Fisk: [00:28:20] I will say that one of the things that we're really focused on right now is women in leadership in Africa. The currency in Africa, whether it's the niger or the rand, has a valuation that is very devalued as compared to the US dollar or compared to the euro. We recognize that the currency valuation of the currency in different regions around Africa has a valuation that puts the women in Africa at a significant disadvantage. The rest of the world is remarkably expensive. If you're relying on a currency that basically has the valuation of a penny to the US dollar. So in the United States, if you're charging $20 for a service, well, that is like $2,000 to women in Africa. So we are developing a program so that women in Africa in leadership can join LeadHERship Global on scholarship. Because we believe that all women around the world deserve to have access to the same level of influence, thought leadership, learning, connections, resources, tools, media opportunities, funding opportunities as women in the rest of the world.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:53] That is tremendous.

Linda Fisk: [00:29:54] We want women in Africa to have equal opportunity. So we are providing now a scholarship that allows women in leadership in Africa to have access to the same level of benefits and privileges and opportunities as everyone else. And we're excited about this. This is a very calculated and intentional, purposeful offering that is going to take a lot of work on our part, and it's going to create a lot more demand for my team. But it's something that we've talked about as an organization we absolutely believe in. So we're really excited about that. We think that it's going to enrich our organization as well, because women from all over the world will now be able to tap into the brilliance and the tenacity and the resilience of women in leadership all over Africa. So we're super excited about that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:49] That is so powerful. That is a wonderful message to share. It is truly going to diversify your community in a tremendous way. And I can't wait to hear some of the success stories that will come out of it, because there will be people that don't expect to be able to uncover a new goal or aspiration, and actually be able to make it come true with your, and your community's, support. That is awesome. Truly incredible. And so Linda, tell us, how can our listeners find you?

Linda Fisk: [00:31:32] The best way to get in touch with me is simple email. I tend to be really responsive in email, unless somehow it gets redirected to one of my other folders. But my inbox is absolutely sacred to me. If you know my email address, you know I will get back in touch with you. And that is linda@leadhershipglobal.com. So leadhershipglobal.com. And, we also tend to be really active on most social media platforms. So you're welcome to drop me a note in LinkedIn or Facebook, and I'll absolutely do my best to get back in touch with you. You can drop a note to LeadHERship Global on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter or me, Linda Fisk on all of those platforms as well.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:24] That is a wonderful invitation to reach out to literally one of the smartest and brightest minds that I've met recently. And Linda, I am so excited about what you're doing. You are absolutely going to change the world, and I'm so excited to share this conversation with my listeners. Thank you so much for your time today.

Linda Fisk: [00:32:51] Thank you, Sara. What a privilege and an honor to be on your platform. You talk about making a real global impact. Your show is going to reach lives and transform them with your messages of hope and resilience, and I just am so excited to see the ripple effects of this podcast.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:13] Awesome. Thank you so much, Linda.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:15] Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, where I had a wonderful conversation with my friend Linda Fisk. CEO, TEDx speaker, founder, and current Chairwoman of LeadHERship Global. Linda's work and wisdom are a testament to the force of impactful leadership and the unique strengths that women bring to the table. There are a few key takeaways that will resonate with leaders everywhere that I'd like to share with you. Integrated leadership for sustainable impact. Combining both mind and heart in leadership roles is essential for driving meaningful, long lasting contributions within organizations, communities, and among people. Leveraging emotional intelligence. Women excel in empathy and emotional intelligence, traits particularly advantageous in high stakes situations. Linda encourages women leaders to not only embrace these natural skills, but also to bolster them through authentic communication and emotional intelligence training, global support, and equal opportunities. LeadHERship Global strives to support women leaders worldwide, focusing on equal opportunities across geographies. An exciting new scholarship program is being developed to assist women in leadership in Africa, combating challenges like devalued currency. Linda's passion for catalyzing positive change is truly inspiring, and it was an honor to feature her on my show. For those looking to amplify their leadership journey, this episode is an absolute must listen. By all means, please subscribe and never miss an episode wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much for being a listener. I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments. Have a great day!

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Ashley Graham, CEO and founder of The Conscious Publicist. Ashley advocates for purpose-driven businesses and their potential to create positive change which she talks about in depth with Sara. She discusses her motivation for PR and assisting clients in increasing their reach and impact through the carefully curated services she offers. Ashley’s sense of strategy and leadership shine in this conversation.

Through sharing a bit of her personal story, it becomes clear that Ashley has always been drawn to utilizing her extroverted skill set and ability to define thought leadership for the benefit of others. She has an extensive history of PR and marketing so The Conscious Publicist and her desire to empower women in business were a match made in entrepreneurial heaven. Ashley describes how she creates value for her clients through the detailed packages she has to offer.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan and Ashley Graham reflect on Ashley’s guidance of Sara in her publicity journey and how the impact of Ashley’s knowledge greatly aided in Sara’s success. They break down the importance of the market research and the tracking resources Ashley accesses for her clients, how podcasts work to get their messages to a whole new audience, and some of Ashley’s aspirations for the future of her business. What comes across is a business with a clear purpose and a founder, in Ashley, who cares greatly about how thought leadership can benefit the growth of her clients.

About Ashley Graham:

Ashley Graham is a publicist, entrepreneur and thought leader who is widely acknowledged for her approach to business and leadership. Ashley has sharp business acumen and a passion for innovation, which has helped her navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship to become a trailblazer in her industry.

Ashley's exceptional leadership skills and commitment to excellence have been the driving force behind her business. She is dedicated to fostering diversity and empowering women in business, which can be seen in the success and growth of her enterprise. Her strategic advisory, decision-making, and forward-thinking approach have earned her accolades for her contributions to the business world.

Apart from being a business founder, Ashley Graham is also a highly respected PR and thought leadership advisor. Her extensive experience provides valuable insights and guidance to individuals and organizations seeking to enhance their influence and impact. Ashley's ability to navigate the dynamic landscape of PR, media, and thought leadership reflects her deep understanding of industry trends and commitment to driving meaningful change.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Ashley Graham:

• Website: TheConsciousPublicist.com
• Podcast: The Conscious Publicist with Ashley Graham
• Ashley Graham on LinkedIn

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with my friend Ashley Graham, CEO and founder of The Conscious Publicist. She advocates for purpose-driven businesses and their potential to create positive change. With a deep belief in the power of storytelling, Ashley and her team are dedicated to helping clients build meaningful connections and relationships. She considers her work's people relations aspect to be vital in fostering a more conscious and sustainable world by guiding clients and developing the necessary practices and strategies to align their connections with their goals. Ashley aims to shape a future where conscious living is the norm. The Conscious Publicist solves the problem of purpose-driven businesses, digital entrepreneurs and visionaries needing assistance to amplify their message and gain visibility among their target audience by providing tailored PR and media services that align with the client's values and goals. Ashley and her team help create a strong brand identity, increase visibility, and amplify messages that resonate with their intended audience. Ultimately, their mission is to empower these businesses and leaders to positively impact the world. Wow. With that, Ashley, I just want to welcome you. I am so glad to have you here with me today. Can you share with me and our listeners how you found your genius work in PR?

Ashley Graham: [00:01:51] Absolutely. Well, first off, Sara, it's just amazing to be in this space with you. You and I have had an incredible journey together in the space of PR and media. So to have this conversation, I think, it's in full alignment and it's going to be really good.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:08] Thank you so much I appreciate that.

Ashley Graham: [00:02:11] Yeah, of course. Well, just to start, my journey into PR, I like to say, found me. It was not something that I had intentionally set out to enter into public relations. But with roughly 14,15 years in marketing and PR being an influence in marketing, it was only inevitable that I was going to get to this intersection that I'm in today. As for my entrepreneurial journey, I started my first business in March of 2016 with the hopes to be a full-service marketing and branding agency for conscious businesses. But as I found where my skill set and my personality thrived was more so in the PR and media relations space. I am a very introverted person, but I have extroverted skill sets, extroverted qualities, and just with my personality, I find that the world of PR and media relations, given the capabilities to meet incredible people, I had found my space. But when it comes to the thought leadership part of my industry, or just my work in general, is where I have really found what they like to call your niche. Through my entrepreneur journey, the first eight years or so, being a solo founder and an entrepreneur, I had realized that where marketing and PR and media relations was evolving was really speaking the language of thought leadership. So through years of getting my own PR opportunities to shine in my thought leadership, I had really learned that my specialties and my expertise really lied in thought leadership as it pertained to public relations. So it's kind of an unorthodox journey as to where I found where I am today, but I think that that is one of the most incredible things about entrepreneurship, is you might set out on a path to be in one phase of the business or one industry, but leaving things up to chance and letting yourself evolve and adapt. I really had transitioned and naturally was pulled into the thought leadership space as it pertained to PR and media, and that's really where I found my genius work as you say.

Sara Sheehan: [00:04:42] Excellent. Well I can certainly attest to your effectiveness in the role, having been a client over time with you and having even had the opportunity to see you grow during that time. So I am a full client success story in and of for you and your business, even as a part of the podcast.

Ashley Graham: [00:05:13] Yes, it's so amazing to see where the podcast has transformed since the very early stages. I remember sitting down with you and ideating what your title was going to be, your about copy, just different avenues that you can explore with the podcast. And that's why I really led in with how much of an honor it is to be here, is because I've been able to watch you birth the show into creation and follow along with your guests in their journey since the launch of the show. And it's been amazing to see.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:51] Thank you so much. It's been a wonderful experience, I will say, and I can even see my own growth in it as well. And so, Ashley, can you define a little bit about your PR expansion program and how you work with clients on it? I believe this is exactly what you did with me, but you can speak to that here today.

Ashley Graham: [00:06:20] Absolutely. So just from the traditional sense, my PR expansion program with The Conscious Publicist is what some of the listeners might recognize as a full-service or all-in representation retainer program with a PR agency. Now, I like to create a little bit of twist with my programs and really have the naming convention of our offers to really speak to the transformation that the service provides. So with the PR expansion program, it really is just that. You're retaining The Conscious Publicist as your publicist and as your PR agency to really expand upon all of your PR and media relations, capacities, or even just room for growth and to adapt and evolve as a business in those spaces and doing all of the management and execution to bring your business into visibility in that space.

Ashley Graham: [00:07:25] So if I was going to again use, Sara, your experience as a client, we really dove into first, the onboarding process of extracting what your core thought leadership expertise was going to be and matching that to high-level research and development to understand exactly what your pulse of thought leadership was going to be in the media. And we were able to come together and work on a number of different articles to get placed in trade publications, worked with a number of podcast hosts to get you shown and highlighted on their platforms, but also one of the other forms of media that I think we really had a lot of success, was taking your quotes and your commentary and different conversations that we had to mold into different content pieces to put out to the right editors and to the right writers to get you placement in those publications or the media that directly aligned with your business. Another thing that I wanted to mention, is something that is managed in our PR expansion program, outside of managing all of our content writing, the media relations part of it, but is really tracking and understanding the digital SEO capacities that digital PR brings. So I know that that was something that you and I looked at very closely, was trying to understand exactly how those efforts were translating into even more reach and visibility for you, your business, online, and how to create those connection points.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:09] Absolutely, yes. And I can say from my experience in working with you, all of the outlets that we worked with were in alignment with me, the type of work that I do and my personal values. So if there was anything that I didn't feel resonated with the way I wanted to show up, that was a very open point of feedback. You were very open to the discussion of making sure that we were talking with outlets that supported me, and showing up as the professional that I am, and that's something that is very important to me as I talk about PR. I could never work with someone that wasn't focused on serving a client like you are.

Ashley Graham: [00:10:00] You know, you hit on a really incredible point there because I find that outside of showcasing what type of support somebody in Myspace, PR, public relations, what they can do to support a client. It goes so much deeper than just securing opportunities, really making sure that the language and the intentionality of where you're being highlighted aligns with the core values. But there's this space that needs to be nurtured as well as being flexible and adaptable, that even when you think an opportunity is going to be a good fit for the client, sometimes you don't know that it is going to be a good fit unless you've taken those conversations further. So with all of the media contacts that we had built relationships with on behalf of you and your business, there was usually always multiple touching points. It took about maybe three different calls or three different emails to really understand exactly what that piece was going to look like, and if the language and the tone was going to best represent you. And I don't think that that's talked about nearly as much, and I'm going to take this as a good idea to nurture, is the, not nuance things that happen behind the scenes, but the things that a publicist or a PR agency really nurtures for a client, both interpersonally, but then also as it pertains to the business and the goals.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:35] Absolutely. There's no way that I could have gotten in front of so many people without the support of someone like you, involved in constantly putting me forward in pitches. "Oh my goodness, I think you need to talk with Sara". I could have never accomplished what we accomplished in that amount of time without support and strategic help, that is for sure. If we were to look at what some of your VIP experiences are, can you walk us through them?

Ashley Graham: [00:12:16] Absolutely. So as a strategist, I like to think that I just naturally am a strategist, both from a business perspective, but then also PR and media relations, is I wanted to take on a strategist role for my own business to get a pulse on different conversations that I've had with prospective clients over the years, and see if there was any type of growth strategies or expansion opportunities that I could integrate to serve other clientele as well. So for some context and perspective, I've been primarily retainer-based for eight years in my business. But one of the things that I wanted to birth was these VIP experiences to match other types of clients where they're at in their thought leadership or their PR and media relations journey. So thinking about the different types of VIP experiences, there's three different ones. There's the ideation VIP day, the creation VIP experience, and the transformation VIP experience. To not go fully into all the information about how they are separate or unique from one another, I'll keep it condensed, but starting with the ideation VIP day, is really for the client who is very new to thought leadership. They don't know what their thought leadership identity is, and they're looking to gain valuable insights in a vision map as to what their thought leadership potential is from a publicist who understands the evolutions of media and bringing that narrative to the forefront.

Ashley Graham: [00:14:09] So it's a VIP day, it's basically done in a day to where a client would walk away exactly with their thought leadership positioning, they'd walk away with their core messaging, they'd get an understanding of how to use content and media as a way, as a starting point, to understand the differences of each. Because I know that sometimes people don't have this robust educational background of different forms of media and would need to be educated a bit. That's also included there. And so the goal is for them to walk away, again, with a very strategic thought leadership plan from a very surface level to really understand where they would need to go moving forward with that new plan.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:51] That's a very high-value day. You get a lot out of that. Just to compare, for someone that might be in a retainer-based situation, like the PR expansion program, that would be the initial few meetings that you have with Ashley. And so that's a comparison.

Ashley Graham: [00:15:16] Yeah, the ideation process is really integrated into that PR expansion program, it's part of the onboarding process. But what I've done is I've extracted that to be able to offer it into a workspace strategy plan for a client, if that's all they wanted, was just an understanding of what their thought leadership identity would look like. That's what they would walk away from.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:39] That's excellent.

Ashley Graham: [00:15:40] Yeah. Now this is where it kind of gets fun. So going into the creation and transformation VIP experiences, the creation is maybe for the client who already has an understanding of what their thought leadership identity is and they already have kind of a plan and a narrative in place, but they get they struggle with the content. They struggle with understanding what their pitches look like, struggle with what their articles will look like, struggle on where to pitch it, who to pitch it. This is where the creation VIP experience would come in. The client would basically work with me on a, more or less, five-day to a week basis where I would go through that ideation process during our discovery call, during our discovery onboarding process, and within a week they have a database or a workspace that's presented to them with 3 to 6 months of content that they can now use.

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:41] That's impressive. That is very impressive.

Ashley Graham: [00:16:43] So I wanted to give them a basically robust amount of content to walk away from. They will get a custom media list that's curated for them and their industry of publications, editors, writers that pertain to exactly the narrative of what's going to be showcased in those pitches when they send it. But there's also a resources hub on different platforms on how to start nurturing their pitching, articles that I have written that would be able to support their pitching process. They would get a week of consulting after that VIP experience has concluded to help them with any kind of bumps or errors or further clarification that they may need, but it's basically just for thinking about a business plan. It's like a business plan that's handed over to them with the resources, the assets, everything that they would need to support their PR if they were going to manage it themselves.

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:47] That's incredible. If they have a package where they can use, let's say, six different pieces and six different ways, that is very powerful for someone that really wants to do it themselves.

Ashley Graham: [00:18:01] There's a lot of value that a client, or really anybody who's looking to step into thought leadership, would get from an offer like this. And the reason why I felt so passionate about creating these VIP experiences is, the PR expansion program is great. It's definitely for the high-level executive or for a business that does not have the capabilities to manage their own PR, they pass it over to a PR agency publicist like myself to manage it for them. It is done for them. But for a new entrepreneur or a coach or somebody who is in this curiosity phase and really wants to learn what PR and media entails when it comes to shining in their expertise, they get a plan built for them, and then they get to learn the natural flow and what comes with making PR and media a part of their every day.

Ashley Graham: [00:19:08] And then lastly, what's really easy with the transformation VIP experience, is it's blended between ideation and creation. So it's for someone who is ready to think about their PR and media for the next year, if not five years. And they want just basically a whole plan built for them, everything from the ideation process to having the assets and the resources created for them. It's blended between both. But in conclusion, with both of those combined is they do have a thought leadership add-on where they get a thought leadership bio written for them, they get a media kit written for them, and they get speaker topics that might completely align with their ideation vision map that we've created and then any other assets or resources that might be needed, it kind of is a little bit open-ended because every client is unique and they might need more resources or assets versus others. So it's very customizable, it's very open-ended to what the client needs.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:12] That's incredible. Clients can still work with you on a retainer basis, but if they need something that's more fit for purpose based on where their business is, they have access to that as well, which I think is tremendous. I want for as many listeners as possible to hear this, so that they understand that you don't have to do the month-to-month retainer situation if you really need help on a different scale, it's available to you. That's tremendous.

Ashley Graham: [00:20:50] There's another idea that has always percolated through that whole process, that even for marketing teams that are so strapped with trying to find new, innovative ideas for their own marketing, whether it's social media or for their blog or wherever they're putting their content, newsletters, podcasts. Having an offer or an option like these VIP experiences can also pertain to the marketing teams who just do not have the bandwidth to think about PR or new fresh ideas and where to get those showcased or where to get them seen. I envision that these VIP experiences could be myself working with marketing teams or internal teams to give them other resources that they might not have internally as well. It really is kind of this universal, adaptable offer suite with these VIP experiences. And I think that's what makes it most exciting, because every client in that experience with them could look different.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:02] For sure. I definitely see tremendous value in the partnership that you could have with marketing, that where a company is really focusing on putting their leaders out there as the voice to the customer, you are a perfect partner for them. So I definitely see where you're headed there and I think it's incredibly high value because you could literally give a company a pre-built set of content that they could use in all kinds of different ways.

Ashley Graham: [00:22:43] Absolutely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:44] Very interesting.

Ashley Graham: [00:22:46] Yeah, speaking to that 3 to 6 month worth of content, it's structured in a way that if you were to look for a new angle every single week, then you have an angle for every single week. But say, for instance, you only need one of those topics per month, maybe because you already have so many other topics and conversation starters and circulation. Although it's gauged to be roughly between 3 or 6 months of content, if you only use one of those ideas a month, that can expand over the next 2 or 3 years of content if you already have so much in circulation. It really just is to give a good bulk of content to use. If you are someone starting off that doesn't have content already, you have six months of solid content to use every single week and whatever capability that you want to use it as. But if you already, like I said, have enough content, you can basically expand that content over longer than six months depending on where it's needed.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:52] That is incredibly high value. I would think the one thing that we haven't talked about here is, looking at your data and analytics so that you see what actually resonated with your audience by looking at views or engagement through comments and likes, if you will, the increase in your number of subscribers. These are things that I'm looking at all the time, and so I'm tailoring my topic list based on what resonated with my audience. And so your new clients can do that as well. Once they get their six-month database and they start using it, they can start looking at all of their numbers wherever it is that they engage, whether it's social media or it's articles, whatever they happen to be using and doing, they can start to see what's resonating and make sure that they use that message in those places.

Ashley Graham: [00:25:09] Absolutely. And speaking to the resource hub that's integrated into both the creation and transformation VIP experiences, is there is a section on how to best track and measure articles or podcast conversations that have been published, because there's a number of different platforms that you can have subscription to track reach impressions. Someone like me has access to that because there needs to be metrics to be supported to the efforts. I give an overview in that resource hub of the best platforms to get some of that information to where you don't have to do it organically. That's the thing is, yes, you can get access to your Google Analytics and have a surface-level overview of like, okay, here's our views, our metrics. But when it comes to getting third-party visibility on publications, you don't always have access to updated numbers in that way because you don't have, again, access to their databases, their resources. So there's platforms out there that can basically bring those metrics to the forefront to show the success rates of different types of PR that you're doing with third-party platforms.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:33] That's very powerful. That's some really great intel, Ashley, that you can provide that I know would have new and different information that lay persons, those of us that aren't experts like you are, have access to. So that's totally fascinating. Ashley, can you talk with us a little bit about how you're expanding your business today?

Ashley Graham: [00:27:03] Yeah. So, one of the biggest things that has happened recently has been the launch of this new offer suite. So the VIP experiences are new. We just got our updated website published in May of '24.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:20] Congratulations. That's a big undertaking.

Ashley Graham: [00:27:25] It is, especially when you're thinking about all of the things that go into showcasing offers online for it to hit a mark with the right client. So not only was there copywriting involved, but the website needed to be laid out and structured in a way to make sense. There's also my own SEO that's had to go into the website to support visibility, and so that was kind of two part. The VIP experiences were a big undertaking to really structure in a way that was going to resonate for the right clientele. And then second part with our new updated website published, it is a cleaner way to really speak the language of how we're looking to serve and impact clients through those VIP experiences. But other than that, outside of offerings, our podcast The Conscious Publicist Podcast is always evolving and there's always new, fresh content both that speaks to the language and narrative of what public relations, media relations, thought leadership, all of that entails. But one of the things that I think lights me up is it also brings awareness to different types of experiences that could aid in your thought leadership. We're kind of exploring a grief series right now with a number of leaders who have their own businesses, have their own thought leadership avenues, but are also human beings who go through moments of grief and loss, but happiness and joy and how they navigate being a leader and entrepreneur through having very human experiences. So I'm bringing that narrative to the podcast as well. So it really is a channel that speaks just to the universal landscape of what thought leadership is, because thought leadership is a human having a human experience both personally and professionally, and finding ways to serve and impact others through their experience. So the podcast, like I said, is one of the expanded tools that we're always nurturing.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:35] Well, I applaud you for the work that you're doing there. It truly reflects your personality and the care that you take in your work. It shows the respect for others and how you see that the human experience, although we all have different, unique experiences that are part of our lives, there are many things that we have in common. And you're highlighting so many of those so well.

Ashley Graham: [00:30:14] It's been fun. And as you said, starting a podcast, you've learned so much and you've grown so much. There's just this, haven't quite put my finger on how to put it into words just yet, but there is something that happens with a creator in this space that you have this new ability to really inspire people. You can inspire people in your community, your neighbors, your family and friends, but a podcast just gives you this global access to inspire others in a very intentional way and there's a lot of personal growth and reflection that comes with that. And it can just continue to evolve and adapt and grow as you continue to nurture it and show up to the microphone with a core mission to inspire. So I'm right there with you, that there's so much growth that has come from just the year of being a podcaster, and I can't even imagine where I would be or where I will be in another year or two from now.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:22] Well, I am excited to see it and excited to support you through your continued growth. For certain. It's truly moving in so many ways. Tell me, Ashley, are there any big goals or aspirations that you're working on accomplishing right now?

Ashley Graham: [00:31:46] Yes. I didn't really have an answer to this when we had first talked about the questions, but this actually is kind of wearing on my heart right now. And I think that usually when that happens, it's something worthwhile to say. And I know there's other publicists and PR agency owners out there who will understand this very well, that it's often difficult for us to do for ourselves the way that we do for clients. And I think that really goes with anybody that is in a service-based leadership position. Sometimes you just want to give, give, give outwardly and sometimes it's hard to receive that yourself.

Ashley Graham: [00:32:27] So one of the big goals that I'm working on right now in aspirations is to really nurture my own thought leadership in a way to really expand me in other ways that I am expanding right now. So I'm in the process of launching a personal platform to nurture my own writing, to nurture my own speaker topics, and hopes to really get the confidence and the courage to really go after my own thought leadership, the way that I inspire and want to be a liaison for my clients as well. So it's a big question mark in the air on what that looks like. But I'm just going to create and see what happens. And, again, similar with the podcast, who knows where I could be a year from now with nurturing my own thought leadership narrative.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:21] And so you're thinking across different media channels for yourself where you are writing, you're speaking, you are showing up for people personally.

Ashley Graham: [00:33:42] Yes, absolutely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:44] That's phenomenal.

Ashley Graham: [00:33:45] I guess just to put it into a little bit more perspective, and this actually helps me workshop it, is I reach this point where I'm like, okay, this identity with the conscious publicist being a founder and an entrepreneur for eight years, I've really learned to master that and how to get to this new stage for The Conscious Publicist to be my legacy business. But I always question, I'm like, but I am so much more than just my business. I am always so much more than just The Conscious Publicist. I'm always so much more than that. What other parts of me can I bring to the table that can also inspire other people on their journey? And so for me, podcasting and writing are really big strengths that I've come to find over the years. And so I'm launching, more or less, a personal blog. That's just the best way to describe it. And I want to write about things that I also experience as a human that are outside of business. I know you know one of the most personal experiences, but, I want to step into motherhood, and I will be entering marriage here soon. And I want to talk about my journey and my experiences through those things as a means to also connect with the community that have also gone through that experience.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:16] Absolutely. And I know that your story will resonate. I'm super confident in that.

Ashley Graham: [00:35:23] Yeah. So I'm, again, I'm just going to take it as it comes and don't really know exactly how I will create my own ideation process of what that thought leadership for myself on a personal scale looks like. But, again, when it comes to content and media, one of the things that I want to say, is it is so abundant in the opportunities that can come from it. It's just really staying consistent and staying clear as to how you're looking to serve and impact. So it's kind of fun workshopping all this with myself as my own client.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:56] There you go. Well, I can attest that if you do the work, great things will come from it. Because I know that when people look me up, they're not just looking me up on LinkedIn. They are Googling me and they're finding all kinds of articles that I wrote and got placed with help from you. And I know that is helping them to decide that they want to talk with me. And I'm at the point in my journey where people are reaching out to me that I don't know that are absolute ideal clients. So I know it works.

Ashley Graham: [00:36:45] And that is a big case study to the impact of media, but we nurtured your narrative so well with keywords and abundant resources that you gave in your pieces. I mean, when you use the media as a means to give, give, give from your expertise, your career that you know so well because you're an expert, it's just only going to continue to create that ripple effect for more people finding you. And the great thing about PR from the digital sense is it only gets stronger the longer that it lives in the online space. That's where the SEO capabilities really come from and the strengths that come with that is, the longer that a piece is optimized and it lives in the digital space, it just only has more capacity to even bring more awareness to you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:37:41] That is so powerful. I hope our listeners take note of that statement, because it can pay tremendous dividends for them and their business. Ashley, what does being a transformational thinker mean to you?

Ashley Graham: [00:38:02] I believe there was a couple of little takeaways that I've already hit on, on what being a transformational thinker means to me. But when I think about transformation just as a word, it's always being in this state of curiosity and growth and expansion and taking experiences, both the highs and the lows, and finding the meaning and the purpose and how to evolve from there. So transformational, again, key word "transformation" is just always being in a state of wanting to evolve and change and adapt for the better. I always say this to my fiancé, when I get on my soapbox, sometimes talking about just experiences and conversations, it's like I'm always striving to be the best possible version of myself than I was the day before. And I think, again, that ties into what that represents. Being a transformational thinker is also just wanting to be the best version of yourself possible.

Sara Sheehan: [00:39:16] That's fabulous. And I can definitely say that I know you are continuing to sharpen the saw and evolve every single day. That's definitely what I want to do as well. Definitely.

Ashley Graham: [00:39:33] That's why we're so aligned.

Sara Sheehan: [00:39:35] It is why we're so aligned. Is there anything else that you're working on that you would like to share?

Ashley Graham: [00:39:41] You know, I pretty much covered it with the podcast and this new personal platform that I'm creating. If you are curious or if anybody is curious to know what I'm integrating into the podcast, this is an open invitation to check it out. Basically with our grief series, I'm going to talk about that as the example. One of the things that I am exploring is taking this audio journalism route with that series. And so instead of doing in real-time, face-to-face interviews, I'm taking audio submissions from leaders who feel like they have 15 minutes of audio to really hit the punch on what grief has taught them as their greatest teacher and guide. And with the narrative and the format of that is it's a dedicated 15 minutes or however long they submit the audio for, it's dedicated to them being the storyteller to lead them from an introduction, the main transformation, and then the takeaways that someone else can take from their story and their journey. And myself as the host, or in this case, the audio journalist, would come in and then now talk about how they would further expand on that story into transform grief into their own thought leadership language or thought leadership narrative.

Ashley Graham: [00:41:11] So, again, it's something that I'm exploring, but I see myself taking on this unorthodox approach to podcasting because it almost speaks to the very traditional journalistic approach that you're taking an expert and their main feedback for a piece, and creating it to be this very universal, hits the mark on how they're looking to serve through that content piece. We're just doing it in like a fun, almost kind of radio format. So, again, I see myself exploring this format for other series, not necessarily just the grief series, but so far the response that I've gotten has been very positive. And so I guess if you're just curious, again, open invitation to follow along with the podcast, see if I do open callouts for more submissions if you're interested in getting your voice heard on the platform. I like to be an innovator, and so I'm, again, I'm taking a new approach to type of interviews on the podcast.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:18] That is a very innovative approach. You're making it flexible so they don't have to schedule an interview, and I love that. You could even have your own app involved in that.

Ashley Graham: [00:42:33] Well, and I don't want to get too much into this, but I plan on doing a voice activation series talking about how to go through the normal psychological beliefs that we go through of either feeling like our voice isn't the right tone enough or we don't know how to really lead somebody through a conversation for 30 minutes to an hour. The natural ping-pong thoughts that we go through, the monkey brain. With this format, it really gives the leader, who's wanting to submit their submission, a way to feel so confident in the words that they're using, the story that they're telling, the sound in their voice. It gives them full agency to feel so confident and so good about that piece. And then I'm just basically continuing to add on to their brilliance.

Sara Sheehan: [00:43:30] Wow.

Ashley Graham: [00:43:31] In traditional one-on-one interviews, I feel if somebody is in a newer stage that hasn't mastered how to be on the microphone or hasn't mastered where their confidence levels or confidence abilities need to be for them to feel confident in their speaking voice, it takes away all that pressure to feel like they need to say the right things, lead the right way. It gives them, like I said, just full agency to feel so confident and comfortable with what it is that they're saying and that is what's highlighted.

Sara Sheehan: [00:44:07] That is truly phenomenal, and it doesn't surprise me at all that you're on the bleeding edge of putting people in their best light. So I will be so excited to see it come into fruition. And so for our listeners, they need to look you up. The Conscious Publicist. You are on Apple and Spotify. And how else can our listeners find you?

Ashley Graham: [00:44:37] Yeah, LinkedIn is probably the best social media platform to connect with me on. Love LinkedIn. You can find me at Ashley Graham, The Conscious Publicist. I have an incredible LinkedIn newsletter that I try to publish every single week that is packed with a lot of good insight into PR, media relations, thought leadership, but just all the other human experience things that has some value and good takeaways. You can also connect with The Conscious Publicist through our email newsletter that you can sign up on. theconciouspublicist.com. And you already covered the podcast, that's really where you can get a lot of good insight into the space that I'm in.

Sara Sheehan: [00:45:19] And theconsciouspublicist.com, your website. Excellent, well, Ashley, I can't thank you enough for spending some time with me today and giving me the opportunity to showcase you and to highlight your genius work, which I know has made a tremendous difference for me.

Ashley Graham: [00:45:41] That's just amazing to hear. It's an honor to have this conversation and to be on your platform that we helped create together.

Sara Sheehan: [00:45:51] Fantastic.

Sara Sheehan: [00:45:53] Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan with my friend Ashley Graham, the CEO of The Conscious Publicist. The three key takeaways from today's conversation include: media and PR power, understand how effective PR can amplify your online presence and create a significant positive ripple effect. VIP experiences, learn how Ashley's three tailored VIP experiences designed to help clients with ideation, content creation and comprehensive PR transformation. Finally, continuous growth, embrace transformational thinking by fostering continuous curiosity, growth and evolution to become the best version of yourself. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and never miss an episode. And as always, let's continue the conversation. Please like, comment and share with anyone that you think needs the inspiration. Thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you on a future episode.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Gary Simon, CEO of Modern Finance Forum and FSN Talent and highly sought-after lecturer. Gary talks about exactly what the Modern Finance Forum and FSN Talent are about and what they’re accomplishing. He explains what some of the contemporary discussions on finance centre on between the professionals on the forum and how the members research issues that impact the finance function.

Membership in the Modern Finance Forum is strictly controlled and members align specifically with finance in career and knowledge. Gary explains that their goal is to expand knowledge that impacts finance and expand engagement, noting that while membership is curated, the results of discussion and research are publicly published and available to everyone. Because the membership user base is 60% EMEA, 25% North America, and 15% AsiaPac, they address global issues and innovations affecting worldwide finance.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan and Gary Simon discuss what finance transformation means to different people and the impact of modern innovation and processes on the finance function. Gary describes some of the topics the forum tackles, from the data issue and data governance to cyber security and what security implications new systems like Copilot introduce. Gary also touches on AI, the value of human creativity and originality, sustainability and the overconsumption of resources in the growth of data and computing, and his goals for the forum. The insight and knowledge Gary share are not to be missed.

About Gary Simon:

Gary Simon is in the "Top 10" most viewed Leaders profiles on Linkedin in the UK.

He is a highly sought-after lecturer and trusted provider of 'thought leadership'​ and analysis about finance and business systems for CFOs around the world. He is a Fellow of the British Computer Society; a Chartered IT Professional; a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales; a Graduate of Queen Elizabeth College (now Kings) London University and the author of four books on financial software and information systems.

He addresses thousands of finance professionals annually about the issues and challenges affecting the CFO’s role. The bulk of Gary Simon’s professional experience has been as a senior consulting partner with Deloitte, one of the largest professional services organizations in the world. His field of expertise is information strategy, performance management and financial reporting systems working at the Board level with global 2,000 companies, large public sector organizations and central government as well as spells in the mid-market. After almost 17 years as a consulting partner, he set up his own highly successful publishing house FSN Publishing Limited in 2005 and works extensively as a popular market analyst, running FSN's popular Modern Finance Forum on LinkedIn for more than 56,000 CFOs around the globe.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “Every time you talk to ChatGPT it drinks 500ml of water; here’s why” by Priya Singh for Business Today September 12, 2023

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Gary Simon:

• Website: FSNTalent.com
• The Modern Finance Forum
• Gary Simon on LinkedIn
• Email: Gary.Simon@FSN.co.uk

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:03] Hi there, I am Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with Gary Simon, CEO of Modern Finance Forum and FSN Talent. This group has been selected to be part of LinkedIn's Inner Circle program, recognized as one of the most engaging groups on LinkedIn. This group is maintained by FSN, an independent publisher and thought leader that welcomes senior finance professionals from around the world to discuss the talent, innovations, and best practices affecting the modern finance function. It is a place where you can learn about the pressing issues of the day and get your questions answered by other finance professionals. FSN's Modern Finance Group, with 58,000 members, is now in the top five groups for CFOs globally on LinkedIn. Previously, Gary built his career as a partner with Deloitte. Thank you so much for joining me today, Gary. I'm so glad to have an opportunity to talk with you and to explore what you're up to with FSN Talent and the Modern Finance Forum.

Gary Simon: [00:01:21] Thank you, Sara, I'm very pleased to be joining you on your podcast.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:25] Excellent. And so talk with me, Gary, about what your mission, vision and overarching goals were in creating the Modern Finance Forum.

Gary Simon: [00:01:37] So we created the forum in 2011. I actually wish I'd created it earlier, but we were really riding the coattails of the rise in social media. We were a traditional publisher with print copy and also publishing books, and we decided that social media was gaining traction, incredibly important, so we decided to create the Modern Finance Forum, which was a way of bringing senior finance professionals from around the world together to discuss the pressing issues of the day. And basically our aim is to inform finance professionals to help them do their job better so that they have an understanding of all the contemporary issues that impact on the workings of the finance function.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:37] Outstanding. And so I take it that the people that are in the Modern Finance Forum, those are relationships that you foster as well for FSN Talent. Is that correct?

Gary Simon: [00:02:51] Yes. I mean, it's well known that we have FSN Talent as a branch of our business, but the FSN Modern Finance Forum on LinkedIn is primarily a resource for finance professionals to use. We do a considerable amount of research. We produce a lot of contemporary discussions, and people in the forum have free access to all of that content.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:26] Fantastic. And so what would you say that success looks like for you in the forum, and how will you know that you've met your actual objectives?

Gary Simon: [00:03:37] So success is a gradual process whereby we build relationships, and many of the people in the forum have been with us right from the very beginning, and they attend our webinars, our events when we have them. And success is really about getting engagement in the forum. You mentioned that we're part of LinkedIn's Inner Circle because of our high level of engagement, and this, to me, is the most pleasing aspect. It's a very respectful forum. We never have a cross word in there. We don't have trolls, we don't have spamming. We have just a nice environment that people can go into and genuinely discuss, or if they just want to lurk there and just listen, that's perfectly fine as well. But success for us is actually ramping up that level of engagement. I mean, just to illustrate it, we have, during a year, we have around about 3.5 million views of our posts.

Sara Sheehan: [00:04:50] Wow.

Gary Simon: [00:04:51] In the forum, on an average week, we have 125,000 people involved. We have about 20 people a day at least asking to join the Modern Finance Forum. But I can tell you we only take a handful because we're very picky. We want people who are experienced finance professionals in the group, and we don't particularly want other disciplines. We're trying to stick to the knitting, as we say this side of the pond. Do what we're good at and deal with the issues that relate to the finance function.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:32] Those are absolutely tremendous numbers in terms of views and engagement and the fact that you have more than 20 people a day asking to join is truly phenomenal. So I give you a tremendous round of applause for your stickiness and the level of adoption that you have in the marketplace. So that is absolutely huge. I'd love to talk with you a little bit about the research that you're doing and the impact that it's having on your audience. I know that the research that you do is absolutely watershed. You've done some very significant work in autonomous finance and analytics. I'd love to know what you're currently up to now.

Gary Simon: [00:06:23] So our research roams across the full spectrum of the activities of the finance function. So earlier in the year, we talked about and we researched some aspects of recruitment. What does recruitment currently look like in the finance function. Not really hard numbers, but trying to get under the skin of recruitment, how people feel they're being treated, how they would like to do it differently, what are the factors affecting recruitment currently? And now, a few months later, we're working on cyber security and how that impacts the finance function. We tend to look at issues where finance function isn't comfortable. We're trying to add to the knowledge. So most CFOs don't understand cyber. You know, they understand its implications of course, but they don't understand how to protect themselves, what the risks are, how much time they should be spending on it. And so what we're trying to do is identify things that make them sit up and help them in terms of plotting their way forward as a finance function. But we've, in the last couple of years, we've done, as you mentioned, research on analytics, we've done research on group reporting, we've done research on FPNA - financial planning and analysis - and we've also done research on data, which is a huge prevalent problem for everyone, no matter where in the world you are.

Gary Simon: [00:08:14] And that's one of the fascinating things. Our research is global. So we have, for example, 60% of our user base is in EMEA, 25% in North America and 15% in Asia-Pac. So we get a global perspective of the issues affecting the finance function. And incredibly, after many, many years of doing this, I said since 2011, most of the issues we deal with apply to finance functions across the world without much difference. There are, of course, cultural differences in the way that people approach things. But increasingly with globalization, organizations seem to have to confront the same issues as everybody else. And technology is agnostic to culture. You know, essentially, if you roll out ChatGPT, it's around the world. If you introduce Copilot, it's around the world. So these things are universal in applicability and interest within the forum. So we ask our members to participate in the research, and then we play back the findings of the research to them in due course as well. So it's a virtuous cycle where people participate and we thank them and bring them into the research findings as well.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:44] That is a fantastic context on who you're reaching globally. It's great to have that context that you really are global, very EMEA focused, very interesting. Now, in terms of the research itself, it's also fascinating that the community is serving in that research as well. The topics that you shared are also very interesting. I'm sure it keeps your audience coming back every day, once a week on a regular basis, whatever it may be. I'm certain of that. In terms of topics, one follow-up question that I do have is what are you seeing in terms of finance transformation adoption? How are things going in the transformation side of finance and how people are doing on the success of making a finance transformation stick.

Gary Simon: [00:10:50] So finance transformation isn't a term I'm particularly fond of, really because it can mean so many different things to different people. So what are you transforming? Where are you starting? What skills are involved? What's the culture of your organization? Where are you trying to get to? And for me, finance functions have been doing transformation forever. There's nothing new about it. What is quite interesting is we've done a lot of research around innovation in the finance function. What does that mean? And it comes down to different meanings for different people, again depending on the maturity of the company that you're working in. So for example, if you've always used spreadsheets, then moving to a dedicated planning, budgeting and forecasting application could be argued as both a major transformation and extremely innovative. To a top 100 global business, that's not innovative at all. They've done it years ago, and it's not even transformative. And so it's impossible to dissect out what is transformative without trying to set it in the context of the business at a particular point in time. But as I said, the term is overused and we've lost some of the, I think some of the core disciplines around information systems strategy and technology strategy that really are part of a transformation if you want to try and define it that way. And also there are a lot of people running around who are practitioners of transformation. But what qualifications do they have to transform a business? So I think in many cases, I mean, I don't have a problem with the idea of making processes more efficient and making the organization of the finance function more coherent with the applications and processes that they're managing. But I think transformation is overworked. You need to break it down and say, what is it we're trying to achieve? And usually small bites is a better approach within the context of a larger plan spread over 2 or 3 years.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:45] Exactly. And the comments that you made with regard to technology strategy, it definitely is critical for the CFO to be in partnership and lockstep with the CTO or CIO, if you will, so that whatever the work or project is at hand, they are literally on the same page of music, if you will.

Gary Simon: [00:14:17] It's absolutely essential. We sometimes draw up what we call the Golden Triangle with the CIO, the CTO and the CFO on the three sides of the triangle and data in the middle, because the data issue has become so vast that no one can claim ownership of it. So in that scenario, everybody's got to play nicely together to manage that data and develop that data and use it for the corporate good. And that's something that's, although it's simple to draw, is very difficult in practice to achieve. But that is the essence. And if there was one thing that comes up time and time again in the forum over the years, it's about managing data, data quality, and now we talk about data health as distinct from data quality. And this is the holy grail, being able to manage your data. And as we speak it's growing and growing and growing.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:30] It absolutely is. Over the last 10 to 12 years, I have worked on a number of projects where data, formal data organizations have been, created a data czar, identified and hired. And really, those clients have put tremendous effort into completely transforming the quality and coherence of the data that they have. It's because of all of these ERP systems that companies have implemented over time and needing to, for instance, upgrade or transition to a new software. You have to make sure that the data is clean and good before doing that, or it's an absolute nightmare.

Gary Simon: [00:16:28] Having said all of that, people don't realize how lucky they are these days. When I started, and I won't tell you when that was, in the profession, I remember literally carrying ten megabytes of data on a disk platter this large and this wide, and carrying it along the street from one computer in one building to another computer in another building. And none of it was compatible. You couldn't easily read data from one computer to another. And people today are spoiled. They don't realize how much advantage they have when it comes to managing data. But what's happened is the volumes have grown out of all proportion, and the advent of the cloud means that organizations have mushroomed, different applications all around the world with more data sets that are different from the data sets they had before. And all of that creates a muddle unless data governance is good. So it's probably the biggest issue of the day and we've done lots of research in that area, and it's one of my favorite areas as it happens. But it's the plumbing, so it's not very glamorous. So I always say no one got promoted for fixing the data.

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:50] Well, I would tell you that many boards are thrilled when they see that data is better in the future. And so I could argue that it could definitely secure someone's job in a great way at the CFO level if they are addressing data. So I appreciate your comments greatly on that. Is there an emerging business area that you would like to see the forum expand into?

Gary Simon: [00:18:25] So the area that interests us most at the moment is the the use of digital assistants, Copilot, and you know, Windows 11 and all of the developments in Microsoft. And it will soon come in Apple. We're about to take off again. You know, we've had some stability for a few years and now AI, which is talked about so much, but some of it justifiably. But it is about to take off because the computing power that we need is at another level. So we need bigger, faster, bigger in terms of capability, and faster computer systems with more storage, with more advanced operating systems, and even with their own chip. Traditional chips are no longer fast enough to process 50 million transactions per second. You know, it's becoming phenomenal. So I think we're going to be, over the next few months, we're going to be exploring that some more. What does it mean for finance? Do they need to get their hands dirty with these PCs, these new Copilot PCs where you've got Microsoft have embedded Copilot into the PC and what are the security implications of it? I mean, last week I had great fun with ChatGPT 4.0 because I interviewed her and asked her to attend one of my webinars, and we had a long conversation. You wouldn't have known that I was talking to a computer. She was giving amazing answers and asking me questions that put me on the edge of my seat, actually. Much more difficult interview than this one.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:34] Really? Wow.

Gary Simon: [00:20:35] Yeah, really. It's on our forum. If you have a look, there's a recording of it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:41] I definitely will because that's fascinating.

Gary Simon: [00:20:43] It's so exciting and we've got so much of this development to come. But the security issues around AI and the legislative issues around AI, which is another big area of interest, is becoming quite fraught. For example, Europe has rushed out an EU AI act. The US doesn't want to, it seems, doesn't want to introduce legislation. Because if I look at it cynically, it's the new arms race. No one wants to limit the development of AI and let perhaps another sovereign nation, I won't mention which one, get ahead in terms of AI developments. It's becoming that crucial. So there are a lot of fascinating areas to deal with. And CFOs have got to assess the privacy risks, the confidentiality risks that are associated with AI. And they're not trivial.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:51] I would even offer that there are intellectual property risks as well.

Gary Simon: [00:21:58] Totally. And, you know, one of the, I don't know if we're coming on to it to talk about the sort of content we produce, but one of the saddest things I've seen over the last two years is people resorting to AI to produce content, and in my view, it's a race to the bottom, because what you end up with is bland content that anyone can produce, that no one really understands, and isn't innovative, isn't on the leading edge of developments. And this is where I see us being differentiated, because we're not going to produce content like everybody else. We never had. We never have. We've always produced original content. It gets copied within seconds. We can't stop it. That's the way of the world now. But it's a tragedy that actually the inspiration, the creativity, the spontaneity of content is being destroyed by a lot of platforms because people are using AI engines and it's in all creative fields, as you probably are aware, and your listeners are aware, and this content is being really ripped off. The intellectual property is being stolen and homogenized and regurgitated. And where does that take us? You know, how does it advance? Oh, you've gone, you know, content is becoming homogenized.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:42] It is.

Gary Simon: [00:23:43] It's stodgy. It's not interesting. It doesn't elevate interest. It doesn't look innovative. And we've always, as I've said to you, Sara, we've always focused on content that we produce ourselves with our expertise.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:02] Originality is always better. And, you know, as I look at what's going on with the use of tools like ChatGPT or even Google's, I believe it's currently called Gemini, that there are many others out there, but as I look at that and I continue in conversation with, for instance, friends that are in higher education as professors, they are seeing a step change in their students' writing, but it is literally powered by computers. And this is not teaching great writing. It's not teaching great innovation or creativity. So I understand completely where you're headed.

Gary Simon: [00:24:54] So I think we have a duty to carry on, to fly the flag, to carry on producing original content. And I think soon the market will wake up and come to the realization. I mean, if I look across, you know, 20 or 30 vendors in the accounting space and look at their websites, they all say the same thing, the same straplines, the same marketing messages, and it's just bland, boring, ineffective. And look, it's not the only industry it's happening in. It's the way of the world. We're building almost a, you know, I hate quoting anything biblical, but it's almost like a Tower of Babel we're building, where everybody is converging on a very similar path in a similar language. And it will eventually break apart because people will not see the value in it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:57] Mhm. Yes. And we definitely want to keep originality as part of the best that's out there in research and writing. It's really critical. It's critical for our world, it's critical for business, and it's critical for people that really want to be their best each and every day.

Gary Simon: [00:26:21] Well said. I agree with you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:23] In terms of if you were to fill in the blank on if a CEO or finance leader says this... I'll know we made a difference.

Gary Simon: [00:26:41] Right. If they say they've learned something, they've learned something new, I'm happy.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:48] That's wonderful. I'll always be learning and sharpening the saw. That definitely means that you're always going to be on the bleeding edge of growth and comfort. So that's always good. When you're growing, you're not going to be comfortable. Growth and comfort do not coexist. So I do love that. What big goals or aspirations are you currently working on accomplishing?

Gary Simon: [00:27:19] So we are looking to grow the group to 80,000. That's our immediate numeric goal. But our goal more broadly is to keep producing content that people want to read. It's as simple as that. We don't, we don't drive ourselves too hard against loads and loads of metrics. You know, while we've got people coming to our webinars where 90% of them stay till the end, or who come on to our LinkedIn group and read every week, and the figures keep getting better, that's good enough for me. That's our purpose in life.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:05] That's outstanding.

Gary Simon: [00:28:07] Someone said to me the other day that growth for its own sake is the philosophy of a cancer cell. Very interesting because a lot of people are saying to me this, and you can see it in the stock market right now, that there's a shift from momentum buying and growth stocks to stocks that are actually producing profit. People have recognized that growth for its own sake is not necessarily a good thing for the companies, for the planet, for the organizations, for people more generally. There are a lot of negatives to it. It's a difficult thing to sustain. So we're adopting, I said, you know, we have 20 people a day wanting to join us. I could accept them all, and I could reach my 80,000 target and say, aren't we clever? You know, look what we've done so quickly. But what would we really have achieved in terms of quality, in terms of participation in the forum, in terms of professional exchange of ideas? We won't have achieved very much. So, you know, our metric, our big goal is over a period of time, and I'm not going to specify, maybe a couple of years, to grow to 80,000. And then we'll be pretty happy. I mean, we're happy now.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:42] Excellent. Well, that is a wonderful goal to reach 80,000 engaged members. I applaud you for focusing on quality in those members as you admit them. And I also would love to double click on your comment about growth for the sake of growth is not necessarily a good thing. I would love to explore that a little bit more with you, if I could. Talk with me about what you think people are seeing that growth for the sake of growth is not necessarily good. They're actually demonstrating reason and in looking at a company's performance is what I heard. Is that correct?

Gary Simon: [00:30:33] Yes. There's been a palpable shift in, I mean, I'm not an expert in stock markets, but what I've observed is that there's been a palpable shift from momentum buying and valuing and pricing stocks that are just growing and growing and growing without any profitability to concentrating now on, you know, stocks that actually produce profits. Profit, I trained and learned with a senior partner who was a corporate finance partner, and he said, I remember one day he turned around to me and said, Gary, profit gives you permission to do whatever you want.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:26] That's beautiful. That is absolutely beautiful.

Gary Simon: [00:31:29] And he was right. You know, if you've got, if you're well and prudently managed and you have profitability and you have good cash flow, then you've got the ability to do what you want to do in business. You can make the choices. They're not forced upon you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:48] That's right.

Gary Simon: [00:31:50] But the problem with growth for its own sake is what it leaves in its wake. The overconsumption of resources. I mean, taking AI as an example, right? There are data centers in the Republic of Ireland that are serving some of the big tech companies, Meta, Google, so on. Those data centers, there's only a couple of them, they are estimated to use, within a couple of years, a third of Ireland's electricity.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:28] Right. That is absolutely phenomenal.

Gary Simon: [00:32:32] And the water cooling requirements. I mean, I don't know if you've visited one of these data centers, but they're the size of a shopping mall that I would find in Texas. Right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:49] Correct. Absolutely.

Gary Simon: [00:32:51] Your shopping malls are bigger than ours.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:53] Correct.

Gary Simon: [00:32:53] And they're crammed full of computers. They need to be cooled.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:57] That's right.

Gary Simon: [00:32:58] So you're using all that water, and I keep reading again and again about the water challenges that America is having. That whole central part of America. You have to answer the question, can you, can we--

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:14] -- is this sustainable?

Gary Simon: [00:33:16] Is it affordable, crudely. The Turing Institute published some comments about three weeks ago. They said every single ChatGPT inquiry uses 500ml of water to cool. Now when you consider how many--

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:37] -- that is stunning--

Gary Simon: [00:33:38] -- millions of millions of inquiries there are with ChatGPT per hour--

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:49] -- it's, that is a stunning piece of data--

Gary Simon: [00:33:55] -- you realize how much water we use. We've got too many people in the world. We're over consuming. We're creating waste. We're not good at recycling. And all these things are a travesty. And we're storing up a problem. And we've gone way off the topic of finance. But I think companies have to have a social conscience. We talk about ESG, which is very big around the world now. And part of it is conservation of resources. And part of it is companies, we have to be good citizens, good corporate citizens.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:35] Right. And that means not only managing your finances in a concerned, very almost, I think prudent really is a great word, in a very prudent and cogent way, so that you're not hurting others in what you're doing, and you have very high integrity about how you're operating. I think those things are very, very critical. What does being a transformational thinker mean to you, Gary?

Gary Simon: [00:35:10] It was interesting because I'm not sure what that transformational thinking means. I like to regard ourselves as thought leaders. So it is taking, I think it's about having that broad perspective of the world and being able to draw on bits of information, both in the near term and on the horizon, that allows us to assemble a picture of where and how the world is developing. There was a professor, and I'm going to misquote it, because I can't remember which American professor I used, oh, it was Greg Hackett who used to own and run the Hackett Group, which is a well-respected group, as you know. And I was sitting in one of his smaller lectures one day and he said something interesting, there aren't, we've got too many managers, was the first thing, and there aren't enough people looking on the horizon.

Sara Sheehan: [00:36:30] Interesting.

Gary Simon: [00:36:31] So businesses are very much focusing on what they're doing without realizing what's about to hit them that's coming over the horizon. And if you think about it on a board, there is no one particularly who is charged with scanning the horizon. He was saying it in the context of how big the turnover is of companies in the top 1000.

Sara Sheehan: [00:37:02] That's a really good, really good topic.

Gary Simon: [00:37:05] They're there for maybe 20, 30 years and then they disappear or, and in fact that time scale is accelerating, so they might be there for 10 years and then they drop out, or less, and then drop out. Right. And why is that? And part of it is because something hits them like a steam train and they don't realize that it's coming down the line.

Sara Sheehan: [00:37:33] Well, I think I think there are so many companies that have literally developed toxic workplace cultures and the turnover that we have at senior levels, it seems to be accelerating. And that experience and knowledge loss is absolutely prohibitive from being strategic in many cases. And if no one is scanning the horizon and looking at what's going on out there so that they can make really good decisions, it's a huge problem for business performance at its root.

Gary Simon: [00:38:21] Totally. That's exactly it. And cynically, we probably pay our leadership too much money. So...

Sara Sheehan: [00:38:32] There you go.

Gary Simon: [00:38:33] They don't need to be around very long to be well rewarded. And that's not helpful.

Sara Sheehan: [00:38:40] Very interesting. Is there anything else, Gary, that you're working on that you would like to share with the listeners today?

Gary Simon: [00:38:50] I think I've given you a pretty good insight into what we're about and where we're going. I don't think there's anything dramatic to tell you about. I mean, we're putting a lot of effort into FSN Talent. We, the recruitment side of the business, we really think we can do that better than it's been done in the past. We want, I keep saying 'we', the new way of doing recruitment is the old way. Actually not AI selection of candidates and analysis of CVs, but actually talking to people.

Sara Sheehan: [00:39:29] Actually knowing the individual.

Gary Simon: [00:39:32] On both sides of the fence, both the candidate understanding their aspirations, paying a lot of attention to that, and also the hiring company, understanding how this all works together, what they're really looking for, what's the thinking behind the job spec? What is the real culture of the organization? When you're recruiting senior people, it's not about the technical skills. You can assume a certain level of competence. It's about the cultural fit.

Sara Sheehan: [00:40:05] That's right. That's right.

Gary Simon: [00:40:07] So we're focusing on that. We're bringing our finance skills into the equation, because a lot of, we think that finance recruitment ought to be finance led. You need people who understand the finance world, understand where financial reporting is going, for example, where financial systems are going, all of that. If you don't understand it, how can you possibly engage and find the right sort of people? And then finally we've got this wonderful network. So we're putting quite a lot of energy into the recruitment side because we think we can do it absolutely better, not faster, we're not going to be a CV factory churning out CVs. We want to do very few jobs a year, but do them well.

Sara Sheehan: [00:40:55] Gary, I have tremendous respect for how you're approaching your work with FSN Talent, having better, deeper relationships not only with the client that needs the resource, but the actual candidate, is an absolute winning combination for me. I feel that it's something that has been lost with all of the proliferation of online job boards and the selection software that so many people use. It's become a game to try to create a resume that will be seen by ATS and filtered up to the top. So if you're actually picking people based on their experience and skills and their personality for the organization that they may be presented to, you're going to be more likely to be successful there.

Gary Simon: [00:41:58] Mm, I totally agree. That's what we're about.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:02] Excellent. Well I really appreciate that context. Gary, how would our listeners find you?

Gary Simon: [00:42:09] So I'm going to take the brave step and give you my email address.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:14] Perfect.

Gary Simon: [00:42:16] So if they want to reach out to me it's Gary G A R Y dot Simon S I M O N at F for Freddie, S for sugar N for November dot co dot uk. Gary.Simon@FSN.co.uk. Or they can find me on LinkedIn, or in the Modern Finance Forum and connect with me that way.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:43] Super. Well, Gary, this has been a fascinating conversation. I can't wait to see where your business expands and grows, and I know that it will. So I look forward to staying in touch with you so that we might be able to even have a conversation in a year or two about how things have changed for you.

Gary Simon: [00:43:08] Thank you very much, Sara, for that vote of confidence. It's much appreciated.

Sara Sheehan: [00:43:13] Thank you so much for listening to episode 15 of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I had the pleasure of discussing modern finance with Gary Simon, the CEO of the Modern Finance Forum and FSN Talent. We touched on some critical topics about the future of finance, the impact of technology, and the importance of integrity and financial management. Some of the key takeaways from today: Integrity and prudence in financial management. Managing finances with the highest integrity and prudence is crucial to avoid causing harm to others. It's more important than ever to prioritize ethical decision-making in business. Transformational thinking and forward-looking strategies. Businesses need to adopt transformational thinking by anticipating future challenges and opportunities, emphasizing the necessity of long-term planning and forward-thinking to maintain a thriving organizational culture. And finally, human-centric recruitment approaches. FSN Talent focuses on personalized, relationship-based recruitment strategies, ensuring a cultural fit and understanding of finance in the hiring process rather than relying solely on AI and ATS selection. Thank you so much for listening. As always, we love to hear from you. Please consider subscribing so you never miss an episode, liking, and commenting. Let's keep the conversation going.

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Sara Sheehan shares an episode containing three messages about mindset approaches. The three approaches collectively yield an attainable vision of transformational leadership. Drawing on her years of experience, Sara’s passion for building long-term relationships and delivering business results gives this episode a timely impact. Transformational leadership has never been as important as it is now.

The three mindset approaches Sara lays out involve resilient leadership, the learning leader, and aligning vision with action. Resilient leadership is about transforming challenges into opportunities. Not all leadership navigates smooth waters, storms will be encountered. How does a leader handle storms gracefully? The learning leader and aligning vision with action address qualities that a good leader must cultivate to realize success.

In this episode, Sara’s advice encompasses the necessity of continuous education, what that education involves, how to cultivate a clear and compelling vision, and how to align goal setting with that vision. While Sara acknowledges that all leaders are individuals and every organization will need different strengths at different times, transformational leadership will always involve resilience, growth, and the alignment of vision and goals. Knowing how to approach these mindsets and make them work for each organization is part of the legacy of effective leadership.

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Transcript:

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm sharing a collective of three messages with mindset approaches that yield transformational leadership in a monologue format. In the first segment, I'll talk about resilient leadership, transforming challenges into opportunities and building resilient leadership. In the second segment, I'll discuss approaches for the learning leader. Keeping ahead of the curve with continuous education. And finally, we will discuss how aligning vision with action is the key to strategic success.

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:57] Hi there! Today I am going to talk a little bit about transforming challenges into opportunities and building resilient leadership. Leadership is not just about steering organizations through smooth waters, but also about navigating through storms. Challenges and setbacks are inevitable aspects of the working world, and a leader's ability to handle these situations gracefully and effectively is what defines true resilience. For CEOs, cultivating resilience is not just a personal trait, but a crucial component of their professional legacy. Resilience and leadership goes beyond simply recovering from setbacks. It involves using challenges as stepping stones for growth and learning. When faced with difficulties, resilient leaders look for lessons and opportunities for improvement. They see every setback as a chance to refine their strategies and enhance their teams capabilities. This mindset not only helps in overcoming current challenges, but also prepares the organization for future hurdles. Another key aspect of building resilience is focusing on personal and team strengths. By understanding and leveraging your strengths and those of your team, you can navigate challenges more effectively. Strength-based coaching can help identify these areas of potential and develop them further, contributing to a more resilient organizational culture.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:58] One way to look at using your strengths is by thinking of a strength as a muscle that you need to build and work out. If you are using it regularly, you'll be more likely to increase its strength, increase the connection that you have with that capability, and actually build more confidence in it. Constructive feedback is a cornerstone of personal and professional development. For CEOs, seeking and acting on feedback that can lead to significant improvements in leadership style and decision-making processes, embracing feedback not as a criticism, but as a vital part of input, a vital piece of input that can help refine your strategies and approaches. Just to double-click on this topic a little bit, make sure that you're looking at feedback as a tool, a means to an end that can help you make significant leaps in your performance. If you don't have feedback happening where you're able to learn from others, you may be stuck in a significant way. You may be hitting that upper-limiting problem. Seeking a mentor's perspective is something that is so very important. Experiencing challenges offers a great opportunity to check in with a few of your mentors, to learn how they have handled similar situations, to ask if they have any innovative solutions to tough dilemmas that you might be experiencing, and see if they've had any other points of view that could help you create a productive path forward in a particular situation.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:36] For one of my coaching clients, we used all of these approaches in our engagement. She was able to build more resilience over time to get much-needed perspective on her situation, and use constructive feedback to her advantage, and learn to lead from her strengths more in each situation. The engagement created a deeper self-awareness and more empathy in others as well. It's truly remarkable when you take a moment and you take a step back and look at opportunities to grow and learn, to use your strengths, to tune in to feedback and check in with a few mentors, it's amazing what can result from a few of these strategies. You can absolutely become more resilient. Resilience is not developed in a day, truly, or by facing one difficult challenge. It's built through consistent practices and a mindset that views challenges as catalysts for growth. By focusing on resilience-building strategies, CEOs can ensure that they not only survive but thrive in the face of adversity, setting a powerful example for their organization and their teams. I would love to hear from you about what you think about resilient leadership, and if there are any tools or approaches that you find incredibly useful.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:51] The learning CEO and keeping ahead of the curve with continuous education. The landscape of global business is continually evolving, driven by technological advancements, market shifts, cultural changes, so many pressures on individuals, teams and organizations. For CEOs, staying relevant and effective, means maintaining a commitment to continuous learning and adaptation. Embracing the mindset of a lifelong learner is crucial for leaders who wish to lead their organizations successfully into the future.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:46] Today, we're going to talk about three different approaches that can be extremely helpful in helping to keep your edge sharp. Continuous learning. Executive shadowing and feedback. And finally, participating in masterminds. In the quest to stay competitive, ongoing education is truly vital. This can be through formal training workshops, reading, engaging with thought leaders, getting into very interesting conversations. Each learning opportunity helps you to gain fresh insights and perspectives which are essential for making informed decisions and leading innovatively. Learning from real-world experiences and direct feedback is also incredibly valuable. To that end, executive shadowing allows you to observe different leadership styles and organizational dynamics firsthand, providing practical insights that are often not available through a traditional learning mode or method. When you couple that with constructive feedback, this approach can really, truly, significantly enhance your leadership effectiveness. When you are in the presence of a significant leader that you admire and respect, and you've worked with for a period of time, always take the opportunity to ask for constructive feedback, because you might be amazed by what you learn, and it might open up a completely new thought pattern for you that is an absolute aha moment.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:04] Finally, participating in mastermind groups is another excellent way for CEOs to engage in continuous learning. These groups provide a platform for sharing challenges, solutions, and strategies with peers, offering diverse perspectives that can broaden your understanding and spark innovative ideas. I know people that are constantly in a mastermind, and that's how they keep their edge sharp, and I definitely think they are on to something. One of my coaching and consulting clients used all three approaches that I have just talked about in this segment as growth tools during our coaching engagement. From a style perspective, she is able to lead with information or input for others, as she's constantly learning about the next cohort that she's about to join. She is a constant, thriving learner and is a student of new courses, books, workshops, and programs of any kind. She has actively used all three approaches in her own career trajectory. After reaching a senior level of leadership, she was able to separate herself from her peers and get not only mentoring, but constructive feedback that helped her shape professional goals and values for the next phase of her career. Finally, masterminds help participants collaborate on creative approaches that they may never have thought of, as well as uncover and work through blind spots and my particular client is an active participant in masterminds and has used them to help her get more insight on a continual basis.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:21] I think that the approaches that work for you are personal and they have to fit your personality and your personal strengths, but there's definitely something to learn by being a learning leader. The continuous commitment for learning is what separates transformative leaders from the rest. By investing in your personal and professional development, you ensure that not only your growth, but also the advancements of your greater organization as a CEO set a lifelong learning agenda and inspire your team to follow suit.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:15] For any CEO having a clear and compelling vision is absolutely fundamental. However, the true challenge really lies in aligning every action and decision with the vision. Strategic alignment ensures that all efforts are directed towards the same end goals, optimizing resources and enhancing organizational coherence. First, I want to focus on vision and alignment. Strategic success starts with a clear vision. As a CEO, it's your responsibility to not only define the vision, but ensure that every part of your organization understands and aligns with it. Regularly communicating your vision and its relevance to daily tasks can help maintain focus and motivation across all levels of your business.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:31] Second, goal setting with accountability. To ensure alignment with your vision, set specific, measurable goals for yourself and your team. Establish regular check-ins and monitor progress and adjust strategies as necessary. Accountability mechanisms should be in place to keep everyone on track and ensure that actions directly contribute to the broader objectives. Employ visualization and journaling techniques. Employing visualization techniques can keep your goals and outcomes top of mind. Visualization is so incredibly powerful. Visualizing your success can boost your confidence and clarify the steps that you need to take to achieve your vision. This practice can be particularly powerful in helping you maintain focus during difficult or challenging times.

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:53] Additionally, journaling can help you discern patterns to see where concepts may be repeating in your life and help clarify the best next steps that you need to take. Taking a moment to journal about what you learned on a given day or a given week can really help you come to great insight. One of my coaching clients used all three of these approaches during our engagement, and she was able to uncover blind spots that she had to find completely new paths forward that she had never considered, and she was able to stay true to her overall vision by continuing to work on her planned actions. If you do the work, you're more likely to achieve the goal. It's a great thing when you just do what you planned on doing. You're going to move things forward. Aligning your actions with your vision, it's just, it's not a one-time task. It's an ongoing process that requires constant attention and refinement. By ensuring that your daily actions are in sync with your long-term goals, you pave the way for sustained success and a legacy of effective leadership. Each of these concepts are just examples that you might experiment with to see what helps you gain more clarity. What helps you show up as a better leader? What helps you achieve more of the goals that you set? Everybody's different and some approaches work for some people and not for others. But when you're putting the effort in, you're more likely to achieve the goal.

Sara Sheehan: [00:18:24] Thank you so much for listening to episode 14, where we delved into the power of mindset in transformational leadership. As leaders, our thoughts and approaches can dramatically influence our abilities to navigate challenges, learn continuously, and align our vision with our actions. Some of the key takeaways from today's episode: First, building resilient leadership. Resilience isn't just about bouncing back from setbacks. It's about leveraging challenges as stepping stones for growth. By focusing on personal and team strengths, seeking constructive feedback, and learning from mentors, leaders can develop a robust, resilient culture. Second, commitment to continuous learning. Staying ahead in an evolving business landscape requires a commitment to lifelong learning. Engaging in continuous education, executive shadowing, and participating in mastermind groups can provide fresh perspectives and innovative ideas to enhance leadership effectiveness. Third, aligning vision with action. Strategic success comes from clear vision and alignment. Regularly communicating your vision and setting measurable goals with accountability and utilizing visualization techniques can ensure that every effort is directed towards the end goal, optimizing resources and enhancing organizational coherence. Thanks so much for listening. Make sure that you subscribe so you never miss an episode. As always, please leave your thoughts in the comments.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Sri Chellappa, Co-Founder and CEO of Engagedly and host of the People Strategy Leaders Podcast. Sri Chellappa talks about Engagedly and the purpose behind its development while highlighting the importance of employee engagement and the right kind of performance management. Developing and maintaining talent requires a transparent and interactive approach which Sri elaborates on for Sara.

In his previous work in IT consulting, Sri discovered that many employees were not feeling appreciated or recognized for the right roles in advancement, and many of them didn’t understand where their organization was headed. Engagedly was created to fill that gap: to assist organizations in delivering better engagement at every level of employee and management. While software alone cannot solve the problem, it can provide a platform and guidance from which organizations can become more employee-centric. And that is what Sri believes is the necessary future of workplaces.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan and Sri Chellappa discuss what transparency means within an organization, how true transparency builds trust with employees, the pros and cons of performance evaluations, and why they both believe mentoring and coaching are necessary components to success. Sri has a lot of practical insight into employee-centric thinking and how to best use performance reviews for employee improvement and relations with the company overall. He sees the trends in Engagedly and also talks about what businesses are facing on his podcast. The wisdom shared here is invaluable to moving a company towards more meaningful engagement at all levels of the organization.

About Sri Chellappa:

Sri Chellappa is the CEO/President and Co-Founder of Engagedly, an AI-enabled people strategy platform software that redefines performance appraisals by simplifying and incorporating elements of employee engagement and development into the performance review process.

A passionate entrepreneur and leader in building high-performance organizations that care about their people, Sri brings over 20 years of experience in leading organizations in software development and consulting in the U.S to his current role. Having developed an extensive amount of experience from managing teams in his previous roles at EY and Capgemini, Sri understands the value of investing in employees and the overall impact it not only has on their individual performance but the success of the company. As a result, he continues to use his leadership skills to make influential decisions that will impact employees, helping them to stay engaged and develop the talent that they need to succeed and advance in their careers.

With a unique background in technology, people management, health IT and film writing, directing, and production, Sri brings a diverse set of experiences across industries and specialties to build highly engaged organizations.

Career Highlights:

• Author of the book: “The Black Book of Agile Project Delivery with Distributed Teams”
• Writer/Director/Producer of 6 Feature Films distributed theatrically and via Netflix, NBCUniversal, Fox International, Showtime, Amazon Prime, Sky, and various international channels.

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Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Performance Management Revolution” by Peter Cappelli and Anna Tavis, from HBR October 2016

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Sri Chellappa:

• Website: Engagedly.com
• Podcast: People Strategy Leaders Podcast
• LinkedIn

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I am talking with my friend Sri Chellappa about his focus on talent development, employee engagement, and performance management and finally coaching in all that he does as co-founder, president and CEO of Engagedly and so Sri, I would love to hear a little bit about the backstory that led to you creating Engagedly.

Sri Chellappa: [00:00:39] Yeah. Thanks, Sara, for having me on your show. Really looking forward to having this discussion. It's been a few times we've chatted and it's been a good conversation so far. Regarding Engagedly, you know, my background actually led me to Engagedly in many ways. My background was in technology consulting. I helped organizations with developing and deploying, you know, different automation approaches to their processes, as part of my role as consultant with Big Five back in the day. And then I ran a IT consulting firm with other partners as well. But we did a lot of work with healthcare companies in that as well. And one thing I noticed a lot during my experience, and I've done this consulting work between the two experiences, about 18 years at that point, and what I learned a lot was that many of these organizations that we worked with, or at least tried to work with in some cases, had situations where the employees didn't feel like they were being appreciated, they didn't feel like they were getting the right roles or getting the right responsibility, or the management was listening to them or didn't have clarity on what the organization was going so there's a lot of uncertainty that was giving them frustration. And I think that was very pervasive back then. It's gotten better over the years because we have gotten a lot more employee-centric in the last few years.

Sri Chellappa: [00:02:11] But Engagedly was born out of that gap we saw in the market that organizations could use a platform to drive better engagement within their organizations and build better teams and more engaged people that will ultimately perform better for them in the long run. You know, with those investments. And obviously, it's not just the software that can solve the problem. There are a lot of cultural changes they have to make, management approaches that have they'll have to change. So that was the initial impetus for starting Engagedly, because the name itself, as it implies, is to, you know, have more engaged employees in the organization. So we started that about nine years ago and over the years we've realized that engagement is not just about having, you know, just a badge given to somebody or an award or a plaque or foosball tables and, you know, free lunches and things like that. It's about every part of the touchpoint an employee has in their journey within the organization, starting with the recruitment process on the way to onboarding and then training, then their experiences with their manager, the kind of psychological safety they have within the organization, their performance discussions and performance reviews, all of that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:26] Absolutely.

Sri Chellappa: [00:03:27] So Engagedly became obviously more than just a platform that was driving engagement through rewards and recognition and social connections. We became a lot more than that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:37] Excellent. And as you look at how the world of work has changed in the last few years, which it's changed quite a bit following the pandemic, what do you think is critical for employers to get right in the workplace to attract and retain talent?

Sri Chellappa: [00:03:53] I think the two biggest elements that the management has to do better, and I'm seeing some directional movement in the positive direction there, is build better transparency and trust with the organizations. And I know there are very loaded generic words, seem like platitude, but they really are extremely important. And what that transparency means is not just saying, you know, we're a transparent organization, you can come and talk to me any time, and things like that, but it's actually saying we as an organization stand for this. We as an organization have this goal and we as an organization have these challenges, being transparent about the problems and challenges, being also celebrating successes along the way, and then keeping an open, almost like an open book for the employees to participate in and look at. And that's the transparency, right? Which is saying, this is how we did last quarter. Here's where we lost a few customers. We lost a few employees. We screwed up here. We didn't do a good job. But then also here are things we are that are going well and being transparent about it and not trying to, you know, throw it under the rug. The trust part comes from having the culture where you are allowed to have dissenting voices, because some of the best progress comes from disagreements that teams have within, so they can have an open disagreement, agree to disagree and move on. Right? So Jeff Bezos actually talks about this in many of his podcasts is you can agree to disagree. But then you can disagree and commit.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:39] Mhm. Absolutely. And on the transparency side I would even offer that there are quite a few companies that have started getting extremely transparent about pay practices, where it's part of the actual recruiting process, where they say, hey, we have really specific pay prescribed for a particular role at a particular level. That's very open and transparent to employees as they come in that no matter what gender you are, you would get paid the same. Or your level of experience. And so I do think those kinds of things that employers can do make a huge difference. The comments that you have on trust are just tremendous, because I think that employees have gotten to the point where they definitely lack trust in the employer. And so anything that a leader can do to be more trustworthy, to build more meaningful relationships and staff, I believe it will bode well not only for the company's performance, but for individual performance too.

Sri Chellappa: [00:06:58] Yeah, and trust is built through actions, right? Your words must translate to actions. So if you are saying we are a transparent organization, but you then don't share any data or you--

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:14] -- that's right.

Sri Chellappa: [00:07:14] -- try to build an organization where there's backstabbing and you tolerate that, or you tolerate toxic environment just because somebody is extremely good at delivering results but is causing a lot of frustration within team members. And you live with it because you're like, well, I can't let this person go or move this person to a different role because it's going to affect our results overall. But it is affecting your results because you're losing people and their trust in the organization. So trust--

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:45] -- that's right.

Sri Chellappa: [00:07:46] -- go together in many ways, to be honest.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:49] I couldn't agree with that more. Couldn't agree with that more.

Sri Chellappa: [00:07:52] You know, the one other aspect I would say about trust is, you know, when you say we care about our employees, how do you show that? Like we are employee-centric, okay, how does that reflect? We are a, you know, diverse organization. We support DEI initiatives. How are you reflecting that within your organization? Are you taking specific actions to do that, you know, and that's how you build trust, by backing your words with actual actions.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:20] Most, most definitely, tracking your words with actions and having some sort of a KPI or a measure to demonstrate it from a data perspective that you can share later, which I think, Sri, you even mentioned in an earlier comment as well. So that is absolutely right on. I think talent-based data and analytics are critical to develop that trust and transparency. Moving on, in terms of performance management, because I know Engagedly does have performance management functionality, the process of performance management has had mixed results in the workplace over the years, and many companies have opted even to remove the process from its previous incarnations. So I would be really interested to hear how it is working for you, how that functionality is working for you. I know that there are companies that have removed performance evaluations and end of project evaluations, as well as end of performance year evaluations, which seems like a lot to remove just to get out of the almost, it's almost causing a brain response that's negative in the person that's receiving the feedback. So what's your perspective on continuous performance management these days?

Sri Chellappa: [00:10:00] Well, let me actually back up that a little bit. There was an article that was written in HBR in 2016, I believe it was written by Anna Tavis and Peter Cappelli, if I remember right, around the case to, I can't remember the exact title of the article, but it was a case to do away with performance reviews or change the performance reviews to some effect like that. That article actually got a widespread read everywhere. People started talking about it in big, and that drove a lot of changes, because what the authors, Anna Tavis - who's been on my podcast as well, she's phenomenal, she's a professor at NYU - what she said is that, if I remember, is that the annual performance reviews are useless, and they're actually having the opposite effect of what they should be having. And in most cases, that is actually true. That started the whole revolution of people wanting to not do annual reviews or doing away with annual reviews. You know, Adobe started a big trend around that, and then Deloitte followed, and then there were a few other companies that started doing that. And then that has kind of come a full circle to some extent, where more and more companies did that and then they started doing reviews again. And I think the problem was not necessarily whether you should do or not do annual reviews, it is what you do in the middle. That's the big one. And that's where the continuous performance review concept comes into play. If you remove the performance review process and you don't do anything else, that doesn't solve the problem. It actually makes it worse as well.

Sri Chellappa: [00:11:32] If you only do performance reviews, what you're doing is you are looking at having a performance conversation only once a year. And we know that in, at least most humans, including myself, have short term memories better than long term memories. So we remember more of the stuff that happened in the last few weeks versus the thing that happened all year long.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:54] Right.

Sri Chellappa: [00:11:54] And some of the things that we should have had conversations with them about months ago are not happening now because we probably forgot about it, you know, or there's only so much time you can have a discussion about it. So annual performance reviews without having ongoing performance reviews is a very bad practice in general, because you are missing out on having ongoing discussions throughout the year. I think my personal philosophy is that you kind of need to do both. The annual review is really recapping your entire performance year's discussions. It is not a discussion that should be generally be a surprise. You know, I was talking to--

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:30] -- exactly.

Sri Chellappa: [00:12:31] Yeah. So I was talking to somebody else earlier today, a CHRO of one of the manufacturing companies, and she was saying that in her first role when she got a performance review, she had to rate herself, and she was completely surprised when she heard what the manager rated her after the discussion. And that should generally not be the case if you've been having ongoing conversations, right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:55] If you're in tune with the person you're working with. Yes.

Sri Chellappa: [00:12:58] Yeah. So I'm a big fan of obviously ongoing conversations, ongoing performance reviews, but they have to be meaningful and they have to be some, and evidence-based to some extent, you know, so that's why we have the whole concept of real-time feedback in our system. You have concepts of goals and OKRs that have check-ins on a weekly basis, or you review them every quarter and you're staying keeping tracks of that. We have a tool in our system called meetings, where you can generate and schedule one-on-one meetings with a standing agenda, with an employee and a manager. Those are all different avenues of having these performance conversations with your people, and they should be driven by the data. So this is what we planned on doing for this quarter or this month or this week. How did we do? Where are the obstacles? What challenges are you facing? And then give them coaching on where they might be struggling with, and those kind of discussions, if they happen more frequently, at the end of the year when you're having annual review, you can, you basically have all this history that you can bring to the table and say, hey, over the last year this is what happened. And we both know about it because it's, also it's in the system now. So, you know, it's not based on some notes we took on a notepad somewhere. A lot more effective performance conversations.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:08] And I think that is very compelling and interesting. And are you finding that many of your active clients are utilizing the functionality?

Sri Chellappa: [00:14:18] Yeah. So if I look at our customers, we have about 450, almost 500 customers at this point, I believe.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:25] That's impressive.

Sri Chellappa: [00:14:26] Thank you. What we have seen is that almost all of them do some sort of an annual or a bi-annual, or some of them do quarterly reviews as well. So they do do that. And about 60 to 70% of them do goal-setting and do goal check-ins and goal discussions. So there's, and then there's also concept of check-ins where they can do a check-in with their employees, so they're doing that as well. So I'm seeing it's fairly common at this point with our client base.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:55] That's fantastic. It's good to see a little balance coming back into the equation. You know, where people see value in keeping the conversation moving forward. And ideally, if they're really thinking about providing feedback, that can be constructive and helpful.

Sri Chellappa: [00:15:13] Yeah, I think the balance is important because annual performance reviews got a bad rap because you are not doing the other things in the middle. The answer is not to do away with it, and by the way, you can do away with it as well. I'm not arguing one way or the other, but you. But what I am arguing for that those ongoing conversations throughout the year, that you cannot do away with, that you need to still do, whether you do annual reviews or not. Some organizations want to do annual reviews because that's the way they can draw a line in the sand and say this, we are closing out the year, this is a review so we know who to promote, who to, you know, give a raise to, and then who we keep in the organization, who we don't keep in the organization, things of this nature. Right? So they have some kind of a process that is driven by this performance review. So some organizations do it for that purpose. Some organizations do it because that's the way to also say we close out this performance year, let's start the new year. And that's a clean way of doing that. But the best organizations that do it is the ones that use that as a mechanism to say, let's recap the year. Let's look at the growth areas based on the last year and your, and your aspirations, where you want to go, and let us talk about that. So using that performance review.

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:22] That's very powerful.

Sri Chellappa: [00:16:23] Yeah. Using the performance review conversations and turning that into a more effective looking forward conversations, I think that's what the effective organizations have.

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:33] That is definitely a step change in performance management that I would love to see take hold. And so, Sri, I know that you're a strong supporter of executive coaching and you've developed part of your platform for mentoring and coaching. What kind of results are your clients experiencing that use that?

Sri Chellappa: [00:16:56] So there is mentoring and there's coaching, though I will make a slight differentiation between the two, although the lines do blur. So coaching is really focused on performance of that individual. So if you are a manager, you can be a coach to that employee to coach them to do better in their role. But it'll be hard for you to be a mentor because you cannot dissociate the employee's performance and their reporting relationship from you because that is real. A mentor usually is somebody who does not directly manage you and is not focused on your individual work performance and on specific KPIs. They are focused on your growth as an individual, growth within the organization, growth even in your personal life as well. So for both of these things, we actually have tools for that. Now you can use the same tool for either one of them, really depending on the relationship between the two people, the mentoring is typically done in for multiple use cases. In some organizations, they use it to get somebody who's joined new in the organization, get them to get used to and acclimatize the culture, really a way for them to imbibe that culture, understand the different power centers in the organization, because you need to know that, you know, as a new employee, you need to know how to understand and play nicely within that organization.

Sri Chellappa: [00:18:17] So a mentor really helps them guide that. You can, so we have a lot of clients using that for mentoring. Executive mentoring obviously is slightly different. That's more around how do I be a better manager, be a better leader, be a better organization builder, things of this nature. In those cases, the mentor is somebody typically outside the organization who doesn't have a bias of the organization. And you can openly talk about your challenges and it gets lonely on the top, as you are, you're aware as well, right? Because you may have a lot of frustrations and challenges and even doubts in your own abilities for sometimes, and you can't go and share that with the employees all the time. You know, you will de-motivate them.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:03] Oh definitely not.

Sri Chellappa: [00:19:04] But potentially even lose trust in the process.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:06] Right.

Sri Chellappa: [00:19:07] So you kind of need an external coach, external mentor to help you bounce those ideas, even talk about things that you would never say out loud with your people in your organization, because things that you might be thinking about that could be so out of the realms of reality that you can talk through those ideas and see what what might work for you. So from a results perspective, you know, to your question, you know, people who have, everybody should have mentors. In fact, I was talking to somebody last week who runs mentoring programs for different organizations in the UK, and he was talking about, which I agree with as well, is that not only should you have one mentor, but you should have multiple mentors for different reasons.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:49] Absolutely. I couldn't agree with that more.

Sri Chellappa: [00:19:51] And from a results perspective, it is proven by data in our case, as well as in our customers case, as well as in research studies, that people who have mentors and coaches perform better, they stay in the organization longer, and they get promoted more frequently than the other ones do.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:08] That's right. That's right. I feel like executive coaching is very similar in results, because you have a structured process that allows you to ideate and collaborate in a safe place. And allows you that opportunity to be creative and think of new solutions that you may not in any other type of situation. Do you have any case studies or client success stories that you that you could share that demonstrate the results and transformation that Engagedly is delivering for clients?

Sri Chellappa: [00:20:52] Oh, there are several. You know, there are, we did a research study, it's been a little over a year so we need to rerun that research study again. We saw that over 60% of our customers, 60% of the time, or 60% more I should say, customers saw increase in engagement in their organization.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:15] Excellent.

Sri Chellappa: [00:21:16] There was a massive lift in manager/employee communications and recognition across the organization. And those two elements, for example, and there are more, are directly correlated to company performance through all the research. Right? So there's been immense, now you have to do it right. You know, you could use our tool and just do annual reviews and do it the wrong way and get the wrong results. But if you follow what we believe is the right approach, which we've been talking about, the results are quite impressive, actually. You know, with those little, just those little tweaks.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:55] It is mind boggling to me that having the structure of a platform like yours, along with some solid guidance on how to employ it in real conversations with employees, can make such a difference. So I do applaud you, Sri, for all that you are delivering--

Sri Chellappa: [00:22:16] -- thank you--

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:17] -- to help your clients transform and engage their employees more. You, Sri, mentioned earlier in our conversation that of course you have an established podcast, People Strategy Leaders podcast. Besides AI, what are the most interesting emerging trends in the workplace that we need to solve for that you are hearing about through business or your podcast?

Sri Chellappa: [00:22:46] That's a good one. So AI obviously has a huge impact in many ways. The other one that I'm hearing a lot about, not hearing, but I'm seeing also, is that because of the whole move to work from home for a lot of organizations, the organizations have become a lot more distributed because people have moved from bigger cities, in many cases are not coming back. People have started working with other people in other countries because if like, if I can work with somebody in New York or, you know, Chicago or wherever the other person is, I can do the same thing with people working in Mexico or India or Middle East or wherever the other people are, or Europe. So that has created a little bit of a challenge where now you have teams where a part of the team is in the same location and the other part is distributed across the world. So now managing that distributed hybrid structure is a challenge for a lot of managers and a lot of leaders, because they're not used to it. Sure, there are organizations and people who are used to it. If you were in consulting, for example, you're quite used to it because you're used to traveling and working remotely and working with your managers remotely. Your team was always distributed, you saw them maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks in an office because they're always on the client side.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:02] Right.

Sri Chellappa: [00:24:02] But if you were a company that for years worked together and you didn't have necessarily a formal processes because you could just go and tap on somebody's shoulder and ask a question, that doesn't always work anymore when you have teams distributed.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:17] Right, that's a big change.

Sri Chellappa: [00:24:18] And I think that's a huge change for, at least for knowledge workers, you know. The knowledge worker services, professional services, things of this nature, huge change. And managers have to be trained on how to manage teams like that. Because what can happen is that there is another thing called proximity bias, where you start biasing towards people who are close to you and you'll promote them more. You will give them a raise more, you'll give them more responsibility and more important projects. But the person who's sitting, you know, two time zones away from you may not get the same level of attention and focus, and they might get disengaged in the process. So there are challenges that they have to manage. You know, if you're on a conference call together as a team and three of you are in the room, the other three are on a Zoom call somewhere else, you know, the interactions you're going to have are going to be different. The body language you pick up are going to be different, you know? And so those are some of the challenges that organizations have to face. And how do you run an unbiased environment where everybody gets equal opportunity and equal attention to some extent, you know?

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:24] For sure. I definitely think proximity bias is real, having worked with so many distributed teams in my career, and I think one of the biggest success factors that I experienced in working with a distributed team is making sure that I get to know all of the team members, no matter where they are. Spending time with them and getting to know them does make a huge difference.

Sri Chellappa: [00:25:50] Yeah, yeah. And some people can't adjust. They just can't. And some people adjust really well. And some people are used to that environment. So there are, you know, there are changes and the people have to be trained to do that. I think that's a big one. Apart from that, you know, the other, the other big one I think is driving, this is something I was very interested, interesting data that I saw. You know, the unemployment rate is still pretty low, you know, despite all the attempts by the Fed to increase it so that we can have lower inflation. But if you actually look beneath the data, the unemployment rate is low in many of the roles where you don't think of them as critical or think of them as hard to get, right, which are more frontline workers and things like that. Manufacturing. But if you look at technology roles, the unemployment rate is not that great. You know, it is a little bit higher there. It is harder to find a job in many of those high skill knowledge worker space to some extent. And I think that's because of, part of it is because of AI is displacing a lot of jobs, I think it is already started doing that, and a part of it is also because we have, organizations have become, especially technology organizations have become a lot more efficient because they hire too much in 2021 and 2022, and 2023, they started laying off people, as you saw with massive layoffs at Tesla and Google and Facebook and Microsoft and all the big ones, literally Amazon. Everybody laid off people and they're still doing it. There's another round of layoffs at Tesla going on. There's another round that's coming out at Google and Amazon, so.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:40] Peloton's laid a lot of people off, I've heard. There are quite a few, quite a few additional layoffs going on in the Big Four world. So it's still a big issue.

Sri Chellappa: [00:27:51] Still a big issue. I think that's gonna rattle a lot of tech workers, especially if you're in the tech side of things, I think that's a big change, at least from a specific industry perspective, that we are seeing. There's one generational issue that we are facing is that we just have fewer workers in America.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:07] That's exactly right. I was actually going to ask you because I was sensing that part of it, part of the low unemployment number, is based on the fact that we have such a large workforce that is retiring right now, and we do not have as many people joining the workforce based on age.

Sri Chellappa: [00:28:29] Yes. You know, I'm looking at the data here. So we've lost like 3% of workforce just last year.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:39] It's just vaporized.

Sri Chellappa: [00:28:40] Less people working now than they did three years ago. And that translates to several million, by the way. So it sounds like 3 million, but that's several million people that are just not available to work. So now you have to figure out how to do more with less, but also means that you can't deliver services as effectively.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:59] Mhm. Well it might mean you have to think differently about what you do, what your offerings are and how you interact with your client to deliver an excellent experience. It might look a little different.

Sri Chellappa: [00:29:11] Yeah. And the ones you do hire you have to now really pay attention to how do you keep them.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:16] Yes, absolutely. To retain and promote talent.

Sri Chellappa: [00:29:22] Yeah.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:22] And so, Sri, just to double click on the People Strategy Leaders podcast, could you characterize some of the things that you've learned and all of the conversations you've had so far, because you've talked to quite a few people at this point.

Sri Chellappa: [00:29:37] I think the common theme I'm hearing a lot more these days than before, which I have been talking about for a while, but I thought it was was just mainly me but it's not, is the fact that we need to support and empower and develop more middle managers. They are the pillars of your organization. And if you don't, you can have great leaders, you can have really good frontline workers or people on the individual contributor levels, but if you don't have a strong cadre of middle level managers, your first line manager, second line managers, and third line managers in some cases, your organization cannot thrive.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:19] I couldn't agree with that more.

Sri Chellappa: [00:30:21] Because they are the ones implementing your strategy. Leaders are talking about it, but they are the ones implementing it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:27] That's right.

Sri Chellappa: [00:30:28] If you don't figure out a way to develop them and make sure they are the best managers you can build and get in your organization, you're kind of in trouble as an organization. You can't scale because that's how you--

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:41] Well, you're not heading in the right direction, that's for sure. We're seeing in a lot of services that are selling successfully that leadership development is on the rise as a positive, good experience to provide your middle managers especially so that you can grow more leaders at more levels of your organization. So in 23 and 24, we have started seeing an uptick in those kinds of services sales. And those clients are experiencing significant improvement in performance.

Sri Chellappa: [00:31:23] Yes, yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:25] So very interesting and compelling comments from you there, Sri. What are your big aspirational goals? What would you love to be able to accomplish or achieve?

Sri Chellappa: [00:31:41] As an individual or as a leader?

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:44] As a president, co-founder, and CEO of your company, what would you like to be able to achieve?

Sri Chellappa: [00:31:53] So the, as a leader, I think one of the big things I would like to grow personally into is how do I be a better communicator to the organization? To me, I can have all the great ideas, but if I cannot communicate and implement those, and that comes through largely through communication, to that first level, second level, third level of management, if I can't do that effectively, then all my ideas as a leader won't come to fruition. So I need to, I need to continue to develop myself to do a better job at that. You know, there is no lack of great ideas. You can read them, you can Google them and read them and get all the ideas you want through listening to podcasts like these and or listening to, you know, Ted talks and YouTube and reading HBR articles and books. Ideas are all out there and they're free. The most successful leaders are the ones who are figuring out how to use, pick the best ones that will work for them and their organization, and then drive the implementation to its logical, you know, direction and conclusion. And I think that's a big area of growth that I have been focusing on personally. As an organization, you know, we want to build a platform that helps organizations connect their people strategy to employee aspirations, because when they both get aligned better, people find fulfillment in their work and organizations achieve their business goals. And that's what we want to do as a platform.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:24] Absolutely. And so how would you answer that question from a personal perspective? Do you have any personal aspirations that you are developing goals around right now?

Sri Chellappa: [00:33:34] Yeah. So our personal goal is to, with our organization, is to get and build a platform that actually delivers a lot of insights so that we can build better middle managers for our clients. We can build better HR processes that delivers on the promise that HR makes to their organization, or the organization makes to their people, and have a platform that can actually implement their strategy. I think if more effectively, using AI, using workflow automation, using better user experience and delivering on that. So basically it becomes like an enablement platform for their strategy.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:17] Well, Sri, I am so impressed with you and the Engagedly organization and the value that you're delivering for clients. I know that the best is yet to come, and you'll keep refining your offerings and your solution and make it even more valuable for clients.

Sri Chellappa: [00:34:34] Well, thank you, Sara. I appreciate your kind words.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:37] Absolutely. Is there anything else that you'd like to share? Is there anything on your mind today as you think about current challenges in the business world?

Sri Chellappa: [00:34:47] I think we have to become, live the words we speak when we say we are a people leaders, we are people-centric, we care about our people, you know, if you heard all these words, we have to live true to those words. I think leaders, managers, directors, VPs, everybody has to live those words. And that requires people to build organizations that are more transparent and trust because we cannot, we moved away from the paradigm of tell me what to do and I'll do it, is to let us work on this together, I want your ideas, and your ideas are as valuable as my ideas. Let the best idea win. I think that model, moving to that model, will have better outcome and you'll have better organizations.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:40] I definitely believe that collaboration and innovation will bring tremendous results and growth. I'm one of those people that lives in this space of growth and comfort do not coexist.

Sri Chellappa: [00:35:59] No, no, I actually wrote that in one of the internal memos that I write some occasionally to my people. I said growth happens at the edge of discomfort. So if you're comfortable, you're probably not growing. And that's true if you're working out, you know, that's what resistance training is, right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:36:19] Absolutely.

Sri Chellappa: [00:36:20] You're uncomfortable.

Sara Sheehan: [00:36:21] You have to find a way to make yourself uncomfortable so that you can grow and get stronger. And so Sri, tell me, how can our listeners find you? What's the best way for them to find you and reach out to you?

Sri Chellappa: [00:36:36] I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. Sri - S R I - Chellappa I believe is the handle. Or if you type in Srikanth Chellappa, my full name, you'll probably find me on LinkedIn. And you know, I also have my podcast, People Strategy Leaders podcast, which is available on all podcast channels and also videos on YouTube. And obviously you can learn more about Engagedly on Engagedly.com - E N G A G E D L Y dot com.

Sara Sheehan: [00:37:02] Excellent. Thank you so much for your time today, Sri. I very much appreciate it.

Sri Chellappa: [00:37:07] Yes. Thanks, Sara.

Sara Sheehan:[00:37:08] Thank you so much for joining me for today's episode. What a pleasure it was to talk with Sri Chellappa, Co-Founder and CEO of Engagedly. Here are some key takeaways from our thought-provoking discussion today. Embrace ongoing performance conversations. Annual performance reviews might be on their way out as they often fall short in driving meaningful change. Instead, focus on regular, evidence-based performance conversations that occur throughout the year. Cultivate a transparent and trust-based culture. Organizations thrive when built on transparency and trust. Embrace open communication, encourage diverse voices, and ensure actions align with stated values to foster a collaborative and innovative work environment. Harness the power of coaching and mentoring. Investing in coaching and mentoring programs can lead to improved performance, higher retention rates, and increased employee engagement. Empower your workforce through mentorship for long term success. Join me in exploring these transformative ideas and more on the latest episode. Let's shape workplaces that inspire growth and excellence together. Thanks for joining me today. I look forward to hearing your thoughts in the comments.

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Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is Robin L. Owens, PhD, a tenured professor in religious studies at Mount Saint Mary’s University in LA and host of the podcast ‘Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin’. Dr. Robin shares the childhood drive that led her to her third career in religious studies and why she focuses on helping high-achieving women find their leadership purpose through passion, values, and their zone of genius.

Dr. Robin can trace her interest in contemplating the meaning of life right back to when she was six years old, but religious studies wouldn’t become her focus until her third career. Her whole life, however, is motivated by faith. She believes we are all created with a purpose and that it’s our life goal to express that purpose. Some of us express it through life or in big sweeping events, but most of us express it through work and finding our true selves.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan learns why Dr. Robin wrote her two books, how our lives give us clues to the values we possess and what our purpose might be, and how Dr. Robin uses her leadership coaching to guide other women in finding their true purpose and expression of self. Dr. Robin shares moving examples of client successes and she explains the process through which she encourages authors to turn their books into courses to reach a wider audience. The conversation is inspirational and full of beautiful examples of true transformation and leadership.

About Robin L. Owens, PhD:

Robin L. Owens, Ph.D. is a college professor and who spends her time outside of the classroom fulfilling her mission to support high-achieving women leaders.

She describes high-achieving women leaders this way. “They are women who are ambitious, goal-oriented, professional, in official leadership roles or unofficial leadership roles. They are often highly responsible at work and at home… and are doing all the things. They are the ones that are always supporting others. They rarely get support because others think they don’t need it.”

In service to her mission to support high-achieving women leaders--

Robin is the host of the popular podcast “Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin,” creator of the Purpose-Based, Decision-Making System, founder of MASTERFUL Course Creations, LLC, and author of the forthcoming book – Making Purpose-Based Decisions: An Inspirational Guide to More Meaning and Purpose in Your Business or Career”-- and the newly released book “My Faith in the Constitution is Whole: Barbara Jordan and the Politics of Scripture” which is about the unique way Barbara Jordan lived out her leadership purpose.

Robin has over 20 years of experience in researching, teaching and studying meaning and purpose in the lives and work of women leaders. She combines her experience in business, social work and higher education to bring a powerful and personable perspective to her mission of empowering high-achieving women leaders.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• New book waiting list: “M.A.K.E Purpose-Based Decisions” by Robin L. Owens, PhD
• “My Faith in the Constitution is Whole: Barbara Jordan and the Politics of Scripture” by Robin L. Owens, PhD

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Robin L. Owens, PhD:

• Website: RobinLOwens.com
• Podcast: Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin
• LinkedIn

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with my friend Doctor Robin Owens about her focus on leadership purpose in all that she does in her work as a tenured professor in religious studies at Mount Saint Mary's University in LA, on her podcast Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin and in her books. Doctor Robin, I am so glad to get to spend time with you today and you are such an interesting, interesting person and you have such a warm heart that I'm so glad to be able to share you with our listeners.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:00:50] Thank you Sara, I'm just so glad to be here. I consider it an honor. I know, I can tell your commitment to this work and how important it is to you to get this message out, so it's a joy and a privilege to be here. Thank you for having me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:03] Absolutely. I'm thrilled to have you here today. And so tell me a little bit about what led you to get a PhD in Religious Studies from Claremont Graduate University.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:01:15] Pursuing a PhD was a third career move. I'm guessing some listeners might understand something about a third career move, but if I really look back and reflect on it, I think it's at the core of who I am to always pursue the big questions of life. And that's what the PhD in Religious Studies helped me to do: pursue the big questions of meaning and purpose. And when I have a distinct memory of being about six years old, and when I look back, I think this is where it all started. And it took me three careers to get there. But that's where it started. Six years old, summertime, out of school for the summer, sitting on the front porch of my family's home, it has a big front porch, three story family home in Connecticut, and I think a lot of the homes in the northeast are like this looks like a big house on the outside, but there are three family units in the inside. So my parents owned the home, my cousins lived on the second and third floor. There are about eight cousins and siblings and all of us. But I was not with them, i was sitting on the front porch quietly, having some time to myself, looking across the street into the trees, and I hear my father inside with the other, my siblings and cousins, they were playing and about to come out onto the porch, and he said to them, Don't go out there and bother Robin, she's out there contemplating the meaning of life. And they laughed and they thought that was so funny. And I felt embarrassed because I was not like the other kids, you know, they were all playing together and I was out there by myself. And so I felt weird. I felt like I was the weird one and the strange one. But when I became an adult and I started thinking, reflecting on that, I was like, oh my goodness, my father knew, he was right. I was doing that and he was protecting me. He wasn't shaming me. He was protecting my time. And so--

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:32] -- that's beautiful.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:03:33] I've always been that person since then until now. So I believe that's at the crux of pursuing a PhD in religion.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:40] Excellent. So you are always contemplating the deeper meaning in life, even at six years old.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:03:47] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:47] That's excellent. And so what role would you say that your faith has played in creating your current career foundation in publishing and speaking, in teaching, obviously in higher education, in writing and podcasting and more?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:04:08] Yes. My whole life is motivated by faith. I believe, for me and for everyone, but I'm talking about for me, I believe we are all created with a purpose. And I believe it's our life's work to then express that purpose, whether it's in the job, a career or not. We are created to express what that is, and I believe it is not always what people tend to think. Generally, they think it's a big, you know, huge, monumental thing like curing, curing cancer. It could be that. But for most people, I believe it is to express the best of who you are, who you were created to be. Your true self. Now these sound all kind of vague words like who is that? But for me, I have a way of understanding and have learned to teach others how to get at who they are. And then the purpose is to just express that, whether you express it on your job or somewhere else. And I tend to focus on expressing it through work. But that's a spiritual principle that guides me. And so based on my faith that we are created to express our purpose.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:29] And so essentially what our foundational design is.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:05:33] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:34] Is what we're talking about here. And so talk with me a little bit more about what you think leadership purpose is and how passion, values, natural abilities, and service play into it.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:05:49] Yes, that is everything I just said in a nutshell, right? I believe, like I said, we're called to express ourselves. That's our purpose. And when you do that through your vocation, through your career, through your work, that's what I call leadership purpose. Now, some people might not work, they might express their purpose in other ways. For example, a parent at home with children expressing that as their purpose. So my focus is specifically when people express their purpose through their work and the way they get at their purpose. Remember I mentioned being who they truly are, I believe our life gives us clues and the clues takes the form of our passions, those things we really love, our values, those things that really matter to us. Our natural abilities, gifts, strengths, zone of genius. And when we combine those things not in and of themselves, only when those, all three of them are combined, some aspect of all three of them are combined in service to someone beyond yourself, then you're in your purpose.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:06] And so it's combining that zone of genius--

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:07:10] -- values and passions.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:13] Mmhmm, and that audience, essentially.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:07:18] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:18] The person that you're supposed to be serving.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:07:21] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:22] It may be a persona or a type of individual or a type of business.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:07:27] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:27] Or an actual ideal client.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:07:29] Or a cause or something that's significant to you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:33] That's beautiful. I love that. And so talk with me a little bit about the books that you have written so far. And I say so far, because I'm pretty confident there's going to be more.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:07:50] You must be reading my mind.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:52] There's going to be more. And so the two books that I'm aware of, 'Making Purpose-Based Decisions: An Inspirational Guide to More Meaning and Purpose in Your Business and Career', and the other book, 'My Faith in the Constitution is Whole: Barbara Jordan and the Politics of Scripture'. I commend you for beautiful titles--

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:08:17] -- oh, thank you--

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:18] -- by the way.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:08:19] Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, I enjoy doing that. So to hear you say that means something to me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:25] Excellent. And so I'd love to hear a little bit about the through-line, essentially what the main message is for the two books that you have brought into the world so far.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:08:40] The through-line is what we've been talking about already. It's my understanding and interpretation of leadership purpose. And the Barbara Jordan was a a leader, a woman leader back in the 1970s, and she used her purpose and expressed it through her work in politics. And so that was her, she was on a mission. She happened to be Christian, but she explicitly expressed her purpose without preaching religion, but using the avenue of politics to make a difference. So that was her leadership purpose. And the other book you mentioned is on its way to be published. So it's coming out into the world soon, and that chronicles my own career journey and the lessons I've learned and how I've taught people to now discover and then express their leadership purpose.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:40] And so a natural extrapolation of this discussion for me is if so much of your work is around leadership purpose, and you're talking with so many people in the world, whether it's a student in a classroom environment or a potential client out in the world, you, I assume, are also trying to get the people that you're working with, whether it's students or clients, to help them to tune in to what their true leadership purpose is and understand that zone of genius. Is that correct?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:10:27] Yes, that's absolutely correct. And to help them with the end goal of expressing the best of who they are, because when they tap into their natural abilities, which we were calling zone of genius, combined, like I say, with the values and the passion in service, it's the only way to express the best of who you are. Which, by the way, is also your purpose. And so yes, I do that everywhere I go for whoever will listen, I shout it from the mountaintops.

Sara Sheehan: [00:10:58] Excellent, excellent. And so if you're helping a client outside of a higher education environment, you're working with a client professionally, you do that through coaching and what other modalities might you employ in that engagement?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:11:19] Yes. In addition to coaching, which takes a form sort of executive leadership coaching, there is workshops. The teacher in me, as you know, I teach at a university, so the teacher in me loves to teach. I have online courses and I do, I speak, you know, keynote or whatever kinds of presentations. And it's always about this message and the transformation and confidence that could come in people's lives when they have this experience.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:50] Excellent. And don't you also help someone, if they have created a book, turn that into a course? Isn't that one of the things, one of the many things you do.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:12:02] It is, again the teacher in me can't help but teach. And those authors mostly so far they've been women. They've written a book because they have a message. They have something that can help others, and I consider it an honor and a privilege to be able to help them put that book in the format where they can reach so many more people. And with such, with a drastically reduced amount of time, effort and energy through a course. Of course the book has its place, but you can do more with the course. So I feel like that's part of my way of making a difference by helping them get their message out into the world in a broader way. So it's still all connected to purpose and helping them live their purpose and deliver their message.

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:52] Mhm. Let's say someone comes to you tomorrow, a new client. How long does that take? What's the time frame of a project for you when someone knocks on your door and says, Doctor Robin, I really need your help. I have a book I know I could have a course. How long will it take me to create and stand this up?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:13:23] Now of course, that depends on the work the person does.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:27] Of course, of course. Let's say they are an amazing achiever. They're very focused and they set aside an acceptable amount of time on a daily basis five days a week.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:13:44] Yeah, if they did it five days a week, they could have it probably done within a month, 30 days, I would say. But the average high achieving woman in the busyness of it all, 90 days is a better time frame with all this thing came up, I'm traveling here and doing all that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:01] That sounds reasonable.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:14:02] 90 days is, but I mean, when you think about it, when the book is done and doing the work to transform it into a different format, take some work and some time. But when you have a book, you have a head start on those who don't have a book, so to speak. When you're creating a course.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:20] Well, I can certainly understand the completeness of thought, the extents that the amount of thinking that you put into the outline, follow through on major thoughts, areas that you might want to focus or dive into. Areas for additional inquiry as well as discussion or engagement.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:14:49] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:51] Might come out once you already have a book.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:14:54] You're absolutely right. And often authors hear from their readers so they know what the next steps are, what people want, what the readers want to be your point. A deeper dive, so to speak, and moving into more of the implementation now that they have a general understanding of whatever their particular topic is.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:14] Excellent. Well, I really appreciate you letting me double click a couple of levels down into the work that you do specifically with clients. I'd love to hear a couple of examples that you might be able to share of client engagements where you've actually worked with a client one on one, and the transformation that you've actually achieved based on your work with the individual, not only to highlight the individual and what they're able to do, but how you are engaging with the client and making a difference.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:15:57] Yes, and as you mentioned earlier, I have two lanes, two lanes of clients. One we just talked about. Basically, my clients are high achieving women. Authors. And so for those who want to broaden their message and create a course based on their book, that's one lane. The second lane are women who are high achieving women who have moved up the career ladder in one way or another, only to get to the top to find that they're at the top of the wrong ladder. Something is missing. They've been working for others' expectations and doing all the things and making all the achievements and then they get there and they find that they are missing in the equation. So those are the two lanes. Which would you want to hear? You asked about the transformation, which was your question directed toward?

Sara Sheehan: [00:16:59] You are, this is totally what you would like to share. And so you could share one of each, or you could share two of one lane. It's totally up to you.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:17:10] Okay, I'll do one of each. In the course, we'll start there, in the course creation. I distinctly remember a client who was passionate. She knew, she knew that she had a message that she wanted to get out there, but she had so much information. And even being a high achiever, she had a great level of doubt. Often times it's not the material, it's not organizing it, which I do help them do. I, like, this is the way you structure it and this is the way you can do it. But often is the question behind it is this good enough? Is this the right way? And looking for validation, which certainly is understandable. If that's not your background, you would have those concerns. So in addition to the step by step process of organizing her content and how to deliver it, because often these women who have written books are also good speakers, and so that even, that's not even the issue. It's just like, what part am I going to say when? So I saw her transformation from having what she thought was a lot of information, didn't know what to do with it, and having a, I don't want to say a crisis of confidence because that might be too strong, but really having some real confidence issues, to, at the end, not only having the course that she put out into the world with glee and joy, but she had the confidence that this was her message and that it was what she was intended to do, which was help people. And so I could see her blossom right before me, which ties back to my belief about purpose. The best of who you are. So now she's operating in the best of who she is, because she has the confidence to go forth and do her work in ways that she didn't have.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:12] That's beautiful.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:19:13] And on the other side of it, for the woman who is at the top of the wrong career ladder, I'm thinking of a client who had already raised her children, taking care of her husband, high ranks in her company where she's been for years, and looking back to say, where am I in all this? And interestingly enough, as I work with her, she had a book inside of her, but she didn't want to call it a book. She had all these notes and things that she had collected, these brilliant thoughts, and she said, I have a writing project. Because she too was afraid, that was their confidence issue, to call it a book, because she hadn't done a book yet and she was uncertain about are these thoughts good enough to call a book? Although she had been working with people throughout her career, coaching and counseling within the job context. So we walk through those, I helped her understand what I said to you before - passions, values, natural abilities - and how to use those in service in a way that works for her. And this is for clients whether they want to do that still within their job, or if they decide that they want to leave the job and do it elsewhere. But getting really clear about who that is and how your purpose has been calling you your whole life to be expressed. And it's a beautiful transformation to see.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:52] And so in that, in that particular case, that particular client, did she make the choice to step out of the business context?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:21:03] No, she did not.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:04] Or did she stay she in the same area but just started to formulate her book?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:21:12] Yeah, I love that. I love that question. It's very astute. I love that question. She stayed. However, she proposed a new role. There was, she was doing a little side project that really lit her up. You know, it energized her, was a little, that's really where her passion was. But that was only like 25% of the role. She proposed to do 75% in that role and 25% in the other while she's still working on this writing project, which I'm guessing one day will be a book out into the world. Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:51] That's fascinating.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:21:52] Yeah, she got clear on really the work that she wanted to do within the company and how she felt she could make a difference.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:59] And so that's a true example of leadership coaching, leadership and executive and leadership coaching.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:22:05] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:06] That's wonderful. And so do you help people through the process of publishing a book if they want that expertise?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:22:15] I don't, my company doesn't do that. But I partner with another company that takes that piece on because I have to do what I preach. So I stay in my zone of genius.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:26] Perfect, perfect. That's wonderful. Those are really powerful, very powerful and wonderful case studies in my opinion. And so I'd love to hear what your big aspirational goals are right now and where you see yourself going in the future.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:22:48] Yes, I have a goal. Well, it's more of a vision, right? This big aspiration to see so many women, high achieving women, whether they're in official leadership roles or unofficial leadership roles, are experiencing what I just mentioned to you from both lanes, both sides, this confidence, this, you know, their confidence in some areas of their life and work, but other areas because they don't have that purpose or this idea of something missing. I would, I imagine myself leading a movement of millions of women who did not have purpose, who are now living out their purpose and living from who they truly are and spreading their message out into the world. That's my big grand vision.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:43] That's beautiful. I love it, it's quite luminous.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:23:46] Yes. Yeah, and imagine thinking about what they could be doing, what they're already doing, and to have so many more women doing that. I mean, just the thought of it just makes me smile.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:57] That is a beautiful vision. And so that tells me there's something bigger that you see yourself doing to bring that vision to life.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:24:08] Yes, and I do, I do what I tell others. Stay in the moment. Right? Because a lot of times if we get ahead of ourselves, that's when we talk ourselves off, you know, talk ourselves out of it. I don't know what it, what that vision, how it will come into fruition. However, I do know for now the people who come to me, having conversations with you, on my own podcast, writing my books, speaking, teaching, coaching, that it will reveal itself as time moves on. But for me to continue to do the work and that's what I would say to others, do what you know where you are now, bloom where you're planted.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:54] That's lovely. I see you taking the things that you're doing now, and it's almost like turning the aperture of a camera lens so that it may open a little bit more and let a little bit more light in, and you might have a new frame on what it's supposed to be.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:25:20] Yes, I love that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:22] Yeah. I think it won't take very long for you to see what that is, and it may just be a shade different from what you're currently doing or adding something in.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:25:35] I'm excited.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:35] It'd be fascinating to journal on that for 30 days and see what reveals to you, what you learn.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:25:45] Yes. Yeah. You know, and I'm a person who likes to reflect, so I will do that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:52] Excellent. Is there anything else that you have on your heart that you want to share about what you're working on right now? Concerns that you have, desires in your heart that you'd love to see people reflect on and consider for themselves?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:26:15] Yes. I'd like to just reiterate in a different way what I've been saying, really, but to kind of tie it up in a bow and put a bow on it. We've gone through some tough times in recent years with the pandemic and all the societal and world situations. And we've gone through a collective trauma, most of us. I'd love to, whoever's listening or the message to get out to say, it is good and right to take some time to think about yourself. It is good and right to do the things you love. To do the things that matter to you, the things you're good at. Because we feel like we don't always have permission to do it. And if that didn't teach us anything, that those years of that crisis and chaos, it's calling us to question what really matters. So I encourage people, take time. Think about it. Because I'm imagining lots of people are thinking about it, but still not ready to take a move. Not only is it okay to do, back to my belief, if it's on your mind like that, you're being called to do it from your best self to be your true self. You may not be the same person you were when you started, whenever you started your career. This is your life calling you forward. Listen to it and follow it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:59] That is so heartfelt and absolutely speaks to my soul. And I think it is a wonderful thing for anyone that's lucky enough to listen to this episode, to sit and reflect on and think, is there anything that I'm not currently doing that I feel called to do.? Because when that small voice speaks to you and calls you to write or make music or do something creative, and you keep trying to stuff it down, you're not showing your own light or living out your foundational design.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:28:49] Yes.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:50] That is beautiful. I think the world would be a much kinder place if more people were living out their purpose.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:28:56] I believe so too.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:58] That is amazing. And so what other things are you working on, Doctor Robin?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:29:05] Well, that sounds like quite a bit already.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:09] It is definitely. You have a lot going on. There's no question about that. I'm very impressed with how productive you are, but I figured there's something else in the back of your mind that you're working on.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:29:23] Yeah. One thing I think, I don't think we talked about my podcast. We kind of mentioned that I do host a podcast. So I do want to just highlight that as an avenue.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:33] Let's talk about Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin. And I was so blessed to be part of your podcast, and I personally can't thank you enough for that opportunity.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:29:49] Well, I'm so grateful to have your voice join us in the podcast. And the podcast stems from my heart's compassion and call for high achieving women, women who are responsible, ambitious, goal-oriented, good at a couple things. People come to them for questions at work, in business, at home, whether it's their area of expertise or not, people tend to come to them or want to, you know, pick their brain for one thing or another. And they're doing all the things. So the podcast is a direct result of my questioning who supports them while they're supporting everyone else? So the podcast is an opportunity for high achieving women to come together and support each other, to be the, they are always the leaders, so where do they get support? And I started the podcast later in my career, living out this thing that I teach of following my passions. Because when I was in high school, I had a secret fantasy that I never told anyone because I didn't think it was possible. I said, you know, I'd really love to be on the radio - because back then there weren't podcasts - but it was always sort of in the back of my, I was like, oh, that would be wonderful to be on the radio. And then when podcasts became a thing, I thought, ah, here's my opportunity to follow a long-held passion.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:22] That's fantastic, I love it. You know, I've never, I love the extrapolation there because I hadn't even thought about the radio. I really hadn't even thought about it because I've been so focused on the medium in a different way. And so that's, that's really special for me. That's very special.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:31:47] And I hear your voice and you have a radio voice, now podcast, radio podcast voice, something that I think draws in the attention of the listener.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:58] That's very touching. Thank you, very - that's a very nice compliment. And you have an amazing voice as well.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:32:05] Thank you. And I'm drawn to voices. I'm a bit of an audiophile. You know, some people really listen to, you know, music in a certain way. I listen to good speakers and good voices. Speaking voices.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:18] That's, that's wonderful. And so are there favorite icons that you have from radio or television, from other mediums? Favorite voices?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:32:34] Not, not particular voices. But here's an interesting tidbit, because if they're good, I like them. Like if they're on the news, if they're on C-Span, even the sports announcers. So this is the tidbit: I love how the sports announcers, especially like in basketball because they're moving so fast, how they can keep up with the movement of ten people and speak the movements at the same time so the listeners and the watchers could have their perspective in real time. And when they do it with a nice, clear, strong voice, this is what I'm listening to like people are listening to music.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:11] Yeah. I think it takes a lot of training, honestly, for the sportscaster, especially when they've been an athlete first to take on that role, I think it takes a long time to learn. I think it would be very hard. You definitely have to be a student of the game outside of being a player to take that on and do it well.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:33:38] Yes. And the ability, the thing that I'm so struck by, the ability to communicate what your eyes see out of your mouth in real time, quickly like that, with a nice flow.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:47] There's definitely individuals that are more talented than others.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:33:53] Yes, like with everything. Right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:55] Exactly.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:33:57] Like with every craft, there's someone.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:59] Exactly. And I definitely think that we can all get better at anything that we want to improve on if we work at it every single day.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:34:10] Absolutely, absolutely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:12] Doctor Robin, tell our listeners how they can find you.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:34:18] I would love for them to listen to my podcast since they like podcasts. And you can find my podcast wherever you listen to audio podcasts. And it is Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin, Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin. And if you want a video component we are also on YouTube, so I'd love for you to come on over, listen to the podcast, be encouraged, inspired, and motivated. And if you want to follow me on social media, I'm on LinkedIn primarily at Robin L Owens, PhD. @RobinLOwensPhD. And I'd love to hear from you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:59] Perfect. Our listeners will certainly be checking you out, and they can find detailed information in the show notes as well. Excellent. Well, we've had a fascinating discussion today, Doctor Robin. Is there anything else that's on your mind or heart that you want to share?

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:35:18] I want to thank you for doing the work that you're doing. It's important work. It's meaningful. I could see your passion and your commitment for it. So I want to thank you for that and encourage you to keep up the good work.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:31] Thank you so much.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:35:33] Perfect.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:34] Thanks so much.

Dr. Robin Owens: [00:35:35] Thank you.

Sarah Sheehan: [00:35:36] Thank you for listening to episode 12, Harnessing Your Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin L Owens. There are three big takeaways from today's session for transformational thinking. First, purpose-driven leadership. Learning to integrate your passions, values, and natural abilities to create meaningful impact in your work and service to others. Second, embracing change. Hear how collective experiences such as the pandemic can serve as a catalyst for self-reflection and embracing new opportunities in line with your life's calling. And third, transformative guidance. Discover the resources and support Doctor Owens provides to women who seek to project their true selves more confidently in their professional lives. Thanks so much for tuning in. As always, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify so you never miss an episode.

View Details

Sara Sheehan’s guest in this episode is marketing mastermind Gresh Harkless. Gresham (Gresh) Harkless Jr. is the founder of Blue 16 Media and CB Nation. He works with business owners as their marketing agency, creating websites, handling SEO, and ensuring they understand what their digital marketing is doing for them. Gresh talks about how he found his purpose and the career he has today.

Gresh explains why he believes in the idea that if you run your race, you can’t lose. Running your own race involves an inward focus on our gifts and talents and Gresh has done a lot of that inward examination as he moved through education and fought to find where his passion and career could intersect. He shares not only his work and study journey with Sara but the moment when he was ten years old that defined the passion that ignites him even now and guides his career.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan learns why Gresh is so passionate about communication and bringing his own “secret sauce” to his work. He explains where he heard the term “content-based networking” and how it’s a powerful tool for collaboration between business owners and entrepreneurs. Gresh’s insight into digital marketing and the unique path he has carved for himself by following his own path makes for a compelling story. He has practical information and, more importantly, inspiration to offer listeners.

About Gresh Harkless:

Gresham “Gresh” W. Harkless Jr. is the founder of Blue16 Media and CBNation. Blue16 Media uses media & technology to change lives. These media properties include Blue16 Marketing - a digital marketing agency providing digital marketing services including web design, website support & SEO services. CBNation consists of media properties (blogs, podcasts and videos) helping the business community succeed. Central to Blue16’s marketing philosophy is that You Are a Media Company and that every organization is in the media business and can strategically leverage marketing tools, platforms, and “ingredients” to reach their goals.

Gresh is a proud graduate of Howard University & Georgetown University. He was selected in 2022 as a 50+ Black Marketer on the Rise in the Influencer & Media Innovators category. He also is a graduate of the 2020 Leadership Center for Excellence Young Professionals Program in 2016, and he was recognized for being 40 Under 40 in Northern Virginia in 2022 and Alexandria in 2020. He has recorded over 1600 podcast episodes of the I AM CEO Podcast and shared the 100+ business lessons he has learned from recording the episodes in the I AM CEO Handbook Volume 3.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• I Am CEO Handbook Volume 3

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Gresham (Gresh) Harkless Jr. | Founder of CEO Blog Nation & Media Consultant at Blue 16 Media:

• Website: IAmGresh.com
• Podcast: I Am CEO
• LinkedIn

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:05] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with my friend and marketing mastermind, Gresh Harkless about his business, working with business owners as their marketing agency, creating websites, handling SEO and maintaining them as well as so very much more. I feel a great need to read his bio because it's so impressive. So here it goes. Gresham (Gresh) W Harkless Jr is the founder of Blue 16 Media and CB Nation. Blue 16 Media uses media and technology to change lives. These media properties include Blue 16 Marketing, a digital marketing agency providing digital marketing services including web design, web support, and SEO services. CB Nation consists of media properties, blogs, podcasts, and videos helping the business community succeed. Central to Blue 16's marketing philosophy is that you are a media company and that every organization is in the media business and can strategically leverage marketing tools, platforms, and the ingredients to reach their goals. Gresh is a proud graduate of Howard University and Georgetown University. He was selected as the 2022 and 2022 as a 50-plus Black marketer on the rise in the Influencer and Media Innovators category. He also is a graduate of the 2020 Leadership Center for Excellence Young Professionals Program in 2016, and he was recognized for being 40 under 40 in Northern Virginia in 2022 and Alexandria in 2020. He has recorded over 1600 podcast episodes of the I Am CEO podcast, and shared the 100 plus business lessons he's learned from recording the episodes in the I Am CEO Handbook Volume Three, which I can attest is full of gems. Gresh, I am so excited to have you here today, and what I find so fascinating about you is that there are so many layers to you and what makes you unique, and I would love to have the opportunity to dive into that a little bit more today. How does that sound?

Gresh Harkless: [00:02:53] Sounds awesome. Sarah, thanks so much for having me on.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:56] Excellent, Gresh. I love the thought if you run your race, you can't lose. That is so powerful. How would you describe to one of our listeners what running your race is?

Gresh Harkless: [00:03:13] Yeah, I think running your race is probably sometimes one of the most difficult things that people have to do. Because a lot of it is not externally focused, it's actually inwardly focused and it's usually inwardly focused on, you know, who you are, your gifts, your talents, all the things that kind of light you up a lot of times, your experiences and things that you go through. So a lot of what I believe your race is, is you making a decision on, like, what path you're going to run, what things you're going to do. And I say so many times that when you're running your race, we can get so caught up in looking next to us, side, you know, left side, right side and saying, okay, this person's doing that really well, let me try to mimic and do exactly what they're doing. But that's not staying true to like our gifts, our experiences, who we are. And I always say, if you run your own race, you can't lose because no one can be you like you can. And if we have an understanding of who we are and what really lights us up, what really gets us going, what we're really comes naturally and in flow, then that is, I think, some evidence of what our race is.

Sara Sheehan: [00:04:16] That is beautifully said. And so if you were to explain the race that you're on in life, otherwise you might say, the path that you were chosen to run by God, how would you characterize that?

Gresh Harkless: [00:04:38] Yeah, I think so many times I truly believe we all have God given gifts and abilities, and I feel like a lot of times they come up before we're even aware of what they are. So for me, like I, like many other people, was trying to understand, like, you know, what is my gift? What is my thing? Who am I? What is my race? And I came back to a story that happened when I was ten years old. So my dad was in the military, and he went to an entirely different country because he was in the Air Force. So he got reassigned for a year. And at that time, I started what eventually became a family newspaper. And that family newspaper was covering all the things that were going on in our family. I used to sprinkle in some sports and some history and just different things like that. But it was my way to connect with, you know, my dad, to let him know some of the things that were going on in our family, but in kind of entrepreneurial form. I also sold the subscriptions and like to kind of get it all in context, and I might be dating myself by saying we didn't have Zoom, Skype, FaceTime, like all these different tools that we have to instantly connect with people all across the world. So we had AOL Instant Messenger as long as no one called we were okay, but that was usually what and how we communicated with my dad. You know, we'd talk with them on the phone, we would send emails and things like that. But it was really that family newspaper that I think was my thing that gave me a little bit of evidence of like what my race was. Being and thinking about that, you know, as I grew up, I started to to say like, hey, this is kind of a unique story.

Gresh Harkless: [00:06:09] And my mom kept all like two years of those that I was doing. So I had like a digital, well, I eventually had a digital copy of those, but it started to give me an idea of like, okay, you really like writing, you really like creating things. And those were just like some of the things that came up for me consistently. So when I was unsure of like, what exactly I wanted to major in, for example, I started to go back to that story and it started to give me a little bit more of a North Star of like, okay, this is what and who you are, so maybe you should lean more into that. When I'm trying to make sometimes business decisions about what I'm going to do, it was those things that I was kind of filtering through, like ten year old Gresh of like, this is maybe your superpower, and this is something that you should lean more into because it happens naturally. You weren't doing it because people were cheering for you. You did it just because it just naturally came. And I felt like those are kind of like those seeds that made me think that, okay, this is my race. This is, you know, we have fancy words like content creators and things like that we use now, but that was something that I wasn't thinking about then. I was just thinking about, how can I get a newspaper out? Can I cover the squirrel that got into my grandma's house and make it something exciting? So those were like some of the things that kind of planted the seeds for that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:21] That is a beautiful story. I love hearing the personal side so very much. Talk with me. You started to share a little bit about early glimpses that help you to understand what your race is. So talk with me a little bit about your time in college and higher education, the degrees that you got from both Howard and Georgetown, and how that plays in to the story around your race.

Gresh Harkless: [00:07:57] Yeah. So I grew up in Northern Virginia, so I didn't go too, too far from home. But I was definitely, you know, homesick, you know, and just adjusting to what that looked like. But I think one of the biggest things that I imagine people go through in college is kind of like that identity and trying to figure out who you are. So compounding upon that, I feel like everything happened so fast. Like before I knew it, I was in college and trying to figure out what I wanted to do and be and grow up into and all those things, and I came in as an undecided major. So I wasn't really sure, like what I wanted to kind of major in, but, you know, I touched on it a little bit, like I started to say, okay, I don't know what I want to do, but I know this is at least a glimpse into who I am. So I toyed with, you know, entrepreneurship as a, I think at Howard we could only do it for a minor, so toyed with that eventually, but I decided to settle and decide on English. And I decided on English largely because of what I talked about, like the family newspaper. But I was also very interested in just like, reading and writing and stories and all those things.

Gresh Harkless: [00:09:04] And that always compelled me and I, at that time, I wasn't bold enough to get a journalism degree. I wanted to do journalism, but I didn't know, like what that industry would be or what that would look like. But I've always felt like I've had like that journalism kind of mindset. But I decided to do English because I felt like that was a little bit more of a skill, a Swiss Army knife. And so that's what I ended up majoring in. But funny story and funny only now, it wasn't funny then, is that I remember my freshman English professor completely destroyed my English papers and I remember it being a lot more, I said, I always joke now, I said, it looked a lot more like a crime scene than anything else. And I remember talking with her, it's like, okay, well, you know, I love, I like doing this, so like, what am I doing wrong? And she said, basically, like, no one kind of taught you the rules. So I actually spent a lot of time, like, really studying myself to some degree. Like a lot of the rules of English, like the power of commas and semicolons and all those things, because I wanted to get better at something that I felt like was part of who I was. But I didn't know, like all the rules or no one really kind of taught me those rules and things like that.

Gresh Harkless: [00:10:15] So anyways, I ended up becoming an English major, and that kind of fueled me, you know, had a really great experience at Howard. And I felt like I really was able to find that identity. I was able to be myself and understand who I was. I did everything from pledging to joining a fraternity, to being on student government, things I was adamant about not doing, I said I wouldn't do, I ended up doing, and that was just part of that experience. But I think throughout those four years, it really put me in a place where, because I had done things that I didn't think I wanted to do, it gave me more of a sense of who I was. It gave me more of a sense of my identity. As much as we try to find who we are, sometimes I feel like when we're not who we are, that's when we start to realize and appreciate who we are. So some of those experiences just put me in a place where I was like, okay, this is Gresh, I'm learning more about who I am. And so I applied to a bunch of law schools because I thought I wanted to go to law school at the time, got a ton of rejections.

Gresh Harkless: [00:11:16] I said that I would only go to law school if I got a full ride to go to law school. I got a partial, got a lot of rejections, I got into one school, I think I got a waitlist, and then I got a partial scholarship to one school. I think the University of Miami, I believe. But I decided not to go. I said, I don't really know why I want to go to law school very similarly to how I entered undergrad. And I said, well, I might want to do something around sports because I'll always love sports. So let me pursue this degree that I heard about called a sports management degree. And so I got my Master's in sports management from Georgetown. And during that time, I realized that that's not really what I wanted to do, but I also took a lot of business classes, and that's where those entrepreneurship plans were stoked even more. And I always say it's like business school for jocks. So I went into that and that's where I kind of emerged. And, you know, after that it was a rocky road. But I felt like I had a lot more identity into who I am. And I felt like a lot of those answers came from me kind of using that filter. Long-winded answer, but hopefully that that tells you that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:17] It's a great answer because it's your answer. It's the right one. Absolutely. It's very interesting to me that you did sports management, though, at the Master's level and the points that you delve into there about entrepreneurial and business classes. And so you've absolutely applied that in what you're doing. Clearly. Very interesting. How would you share what you're passionate about? What really lights your fire?

Gresh Harkless: [00:12:52] Yeah, I think it's ultimately the stories. And when I started to really, I always say like I started to do, years later, I started to do like freelance writing. So I wrote around a bunch of different topics. I wrote everything from reviews at restaurants to, you know, I went to school events and I would talk about an author that came to talk to the kid, just everything. I literally wrote about all those things. But I always say, like, I felt at home when I was interviewing entrepreneurs and business owners. So it was me kind of on that quest to kind of understand what that is, what that looks like, but also learn what were good kind of traits or characteristics or things that entrepreneurs or successful business owners would adopt. And I really became, for lack of a better term, obsessed with that. And that's where that kind of lit me up. So it wasn't, I always thought I was going to potentially be a sports agent or a sports writer or something along those lines, but I started to see kind of like those, I guess, those seeds planted, and I started to meld it into my own race where it was like, okay, like I'm interested in stories and and I'm interested in business and entrepreneurship.

Gresh Harkless: [00:14:03] Like I had to choose one or the other. That was my mindset initially. But it was like as you start to get older and you start to realize, like, especially around journalism, there's so much disruption. Things are a lot different with, you know, technology and all those things. I started to realize like, hey, maybe you can kind of create your own recipe. And to change, like how you're approaching even your life, your profession and the things that light you up. So that's a lot of where that came about is just like, okay, I don't have to choose either/or, I could actually choose both, it may be better and start to try to look at things differently and execute in a unique way. And that's kind of like how I stepped into that. And that's what ended up becoming my passion is like staying true to my race, but at the same time being obsessed with like the stories, with learning, with asking questions, just all those things that journalists would do, but bring it into that business world and kind of do it in a unique way. So I think that's what lights me up more than anything else is that and the innovation and things like that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:03] Fascinating. I definitely see that you're doing it. You're bringing your passion to life in your work and what you do without question. You're definitely using those skills.

Gresh Harkless: [00:15:17] Thank you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:18] Absolutely. Talk with me, Gresh, about what your secret sauce is and why it's so important.

Gresh Harkless: [00:15:25] Yeah, it's so funny, I think a lot of my secret sauce comes from, you know, that ten year old Gresh. And a lot of what I think is embedded, I guess, within, you know, Blue 16 and CB Nation is, I like to call it a media company mindset. And it's the same idea of like being maybe a content creator, but I'm really big into like leveraging. And I feel like using content for what I believe is like the greater good to help support the people that you're serving. And I think that so many times we look at content as something you have to check off or something you have to do, but I really think it has a very impactful opportunity if, you know, if it's used in that way. And so when I look at my secret sauce, I think a lot of it has to be not choosing either/or, but actually both of them, and figuring out how can I create content, but how can I also serve the audience that I'm, you know, wanting to serve? How can I also potentially drive home more opportunities for digital marketing, or how can I even create new products or services? So I try to really not think either/or, have really abundant mindset to everything that I'm doing and meld those things together into what I think is a secret sauce and a new recipe. So it's not choosing either/or. It's really saying, okay, this is content I can create. What are my goals? Like, what am I trying to create, do with this content and working backwards from there. Do I want to meet more people? Like, one of the things I did with the podcast is I said, okay, I'm in a lot of boards, I'm in a lot of networking groups, I'm just overextended and I'm tired. Why don't I try to take my podcast and create it as a way for me to network and connect with people? And so it just, starting to like look at things from like that media company mindset and seeing like how you can create win, win, win opportunities and maybe be able to do something completely different.

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:17] Absolutely. Having a podcast in and of itself is such a great content vehicle because just like we're doing here today, you gave me the opportunity on your I Am CEO podcast. And here we are today and I asked you if you would be a guest on mine. I think it is such a powerful opportunity to give someone an opportunity to reach an entirely new group of listeners.

Gresh Harkless: [00:17:51] Absolutely. And I think too, like one of the guests I had, he had this phrase called content based networking. And I think it's one of the most powerful things because I think in this day and age, we all have microphones. That's one of the beauties of the phone, is that now we get to collaborate in different ways. So why not be able to have that opportunity to build connections, relationships in a different way? We don't have to pass each other business cards. We can hop on each other's podcasts and we have that opportunity to collaborate.

Sara Sheehan: [00:18:17] Absolutely. And so, Gresh, talk with me a little bit about Blue 16 media and CB Nation in terms of how they fit in.

Gresh Harkless: [00:18:27] Yeah, so I think that, kind of like what I alluded to, is every time I'm like, okay, what is my next step? What should I do? I'm really big into to trying to figure out, like, how can I take from what I feel like are my superpowers, but also things that I want to do to try to impact. So I had CB Nation, which was started before the digital marketing company, and CB Nation was literally started out with me really interviewing people the, I didn't even know podcast at the time, it was just me using and creating blog content, interviewing business owners and posting it. What really changed things was I tore my Achilles tendon while I was playing basketball, and when I tore my Achilles tendon, I was, I went through like a dark period because I was like, not really happy because I did, I felt like I made bold moves and they didn't work out. And I was literally without a, well, partially without all my Achilles. So it was a partial tear. But that's what kind of planted the seeds for CEO Blog Nation, which became CB Nation and all those. So I was already working on that, you know, learning about entrepreneurship and business, saying, I want to start something.

Gresh Harkless: [00:19:36] And on the other side, I started to, I've always been like a techie. I've always been interested in technology and computers and things like that. So I would work on websites not thinking that was of any value. It was only years later, after having a job while freelancing and doing all these other things, that I met somebody from a networking group, and my way to kind of get through to him was actually to say, hey, you know, your website's not up to par. And I was working an outside sales job at the time, and I was like, okay, well, I want to try to sell you advertising. So I'm going to talk about your website to hopefully sell you advertising. And when that happened, I got into the door and spoke with him. He didn't want to talk about advertising. He wanted to talk about the SEO work. So that's where I started to do more SEO work. So all while I'm still doing a lot of the freelance writing and all these things, and I started doing digital marketing, the digital marketing starts to kind of take off a lot more than other things. So fast forward a lot of years. I'm like, okay, I'm overextended. I'm doing too many things. I have a lot of, you know, I'm way overextended, way more overextended that I want to be in two things that I'm chasing.

Gresh Harkless: [00:20:46] And I kind of came back to it like, okay, if I was going to blow up my digital marketing company, how would I do that? And a lot of that was like, okay, I would probably try to invest into something that can connect me with more entrepreneurs and business owners. I'd probably try to get an entrepreneur magazine or something along those lines. And then when I started to think about it, I was like, okay, I'm building something that is probably very close to what I would want to invest in, and that's where those two things kind of meld together. It's like, okay, you have the services that you provide, but you really want to showcase people that you might end up working with. At the very least, you get the opportunity to kind of provide support for the community. So that's where those two things kind of came together, where it wasn't either/or, it was actually both and better. And it allowed me and everybody else to be a lot more strategic with what we're doing.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:37] That's fascinating to learn more about. And so can you tell me if Blue 16 and CB Nation, are they passion projects for you or..? How do they fit in with your secret sauce? Or maybe they are your secret sauce in essence. Tell me more about that.

Gresh Harkless: [00:22:02] So I absolutely believe it is part of my secret sauce. I think it's the differentiator. So the secret sauce, the thing that sets us apart, it makes us unique, because I think so many times with digital marketers, which has become a lot more prevalent than it was when I started, you know, ten years ago, it becomes less of like, oh, I can just help you build a website. It becomes more of like, oh, you're doing some really awesome things with love. You know, by the way, we do help support with X, Y and Z and A, B and C, but I would love to have you on my podcast. I think you have a phenomenal story. I think you're doing phenomenal things, so we'd love to showcase you. And I think it's a way to also help to build those connections and those relationships, but also to get our name out there. So everything's powered by Blue 16, and that's by design as well too. So that again, investments into like other streams of marketing and other ways the market may not be able, be in alignment with what we're trying to build. So it's definitely in alignment with, you know, our secret sauce. And I see it as basically like a marketing opportunity. But I think one of the beautiful things is we're hoping to launch more and more type of products and services to help support CB Nation as well too, so that we have the services but we also have other opportunities and things that we can build from there.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:16] Excellent. Is it fair to say that you are providing content through CB Nation that is educational for anyone that really wants to learn and grow? They want to grow as a business leader. They want to be a better leader. They want people to want to work with them. That you have a much higher standard for what you're doing. You're trying to share content that would help people learn and grow.

Gresh Harkless: [00:23:55] Absolutely. Sara. It's so funny. I say, like, at the heart of, like, every interview or every piece of content, I'm always that annoying kid that's in class that continues to raise their hand and ask about why, how do you do this, and all those things. So I feel like I'm tapping into that with everything that we create and like our, I call it our success equation, I say visibility plus resources times connections equals success. And the whole idea of that is that every piece of content we want to hit one of those three pieces, if not more than one. So we're either telling a story about a CEO, entrepreneur and business owner. And I think even in that it could be very lonely starting a business. It could be very lonely if you're innovating or doing anything. I think you have a lot of peace. And this is why I kind of touched on that networking group, because I only believe I was more able to achieve more success because I was in the room with people that were already doing it. And like things have changed, obviously with some of the ways that we connect. But I think I wanted to tap into that, oh, if I'm having a bad day or a bad month or even a bad year of my business, I'm not necessarily doing it wrong. It's kind of part of the process, part of the step. So I wanted to kind of get a lot of that information out there. Of course, the resources, you know, we don't know about all the organizations or the software or the tools, tips, tidbits, whatever it is, I call them CEO hacks that we can lean on. So let's start to get a lot of that information out there. And then connections is everything that's at the humanistic part of what we're doing, I think. I love the opportunity we get to do this now, but how can I bring all those things together so that I can help these business owners, who I think are the true superheroes, be able to succeed even more?

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:41] That's very powerful. Can you talk with me about what some of your big aspirational goals are right now and what you're working on?

Gresh Harkless: [00:25:54] Yeah, I think the most immediate thing that we're really trying to work on is after hitting 1600 episodes, I took a step back and I paused new recordings for a year and really started to work on, like, mining the information of all the podcasts and information. And we came out with, you know, 16 kind of foundational elements. And some of them, or most of them, are covered in the I Am CEO Handbook Volume Three, and some of those things are valuable. But one of the things I think that is really impactful is what I call the CEO hacks. And those are the apps, books, habits, software, things that can make you more effective and efficient. So we're doing some really cool things around them. Starting to compile a lot of the CEO hacks that are available, but also drilling down. I think it's really cool to know about these software, but I think one of the things that a lot of SaaS companies kind of struggle with is starting to bridge the gap of like how you can actually execute that within your organization. So we're hoping to kind of bridge the gap as far as like making it more of a directory, potentially tapping in certain like AI chats for people to be able to find the specific hack that can help them with their business, but different things like that to be able to make it easier at the end of the day for people to find the things that they need in order to succeed.

Gresh Harkless: [00:27:10] And I think that's really exciting because I think all these hacks, there's so many things out there that people don't even know about, and we want to try to bridge that gap and make it a little bit easier for people to be able to not just know about them, but also be able to use and execute them, to be able to have a higher level of degree of success. But I think everything goes back to ten year old Gresh for me overall. It's like, how can I start to really approach that in terms of creating media to help to create a solution? As a kid, my idea was like, how can I reach out to my dad? How can I generate a little revenue and money? That was my problem. That was the solution. So the same way that I look at that, I look at a lot of things that are happening in the world. So I definitely see us launching more media properties around specific niche communities. That's definitely, you know, aspirational. But a lot of what we're trying to do is in align with that media company mindset.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:05] Outstanding. And so one thing I want to make sure that I do with you is give you an opportunity to share about a couple of client success stories, if you will, where you share the client, you don't have to say the whole name. You could give one part of it or characterize it however you'd like, where you share what their biggest problem was at the time, the solution that you helped them with and what their results were in the end.

Gresh Harkless: [00:28:38] Yeah, absolutely. I think one of my favorite clients, usually, especially from a digital marketing standpoint, some of our best clients are, I say, people that know enough to be dangerous. Those people that know enough to be dangerous and those organizations are often people that have had a less than ideal experience with digital marketers in the past. If you can't tell, I do like to talk a little bit, and I do like to make sure that I over-explain a lot of the things that are happening, I think to the detriment of a lot of clients, as people don't have as much communication about what's happening, and even not just communicating just to say like certain, they say legalese in business and law. So I don't know if it's marketese or whatever words that people don't understand. So what I really try to do is try to communicate, and we try to communicate to people to let them know what's happening. So one of my absolute favorite clients is a plumbing company out of Ohio, and she did not have a great experience with SEO. Really, honestly, her SEO rankings were tanking and a lot of them were tanking because in SEO, there's something that's called duplicate content. What people sometimes try to do is they will take a page on their site, and if they're trying to show up locally and in certain cities and states and zip codes and things like that, they'll literally just take that content, copy it over to another page, they'll change the city, the city and the state and that's it.

Gresh Harkless: [00:30:01] So all the content is pretty much the same across the site. So this person actually employed a SEO that was not really doing what's in their best interest. And it's really detrimental because not only does it rank, does it tank their pages, it can take all their entire site. So that was something that we were able to kind of step in and do, really just change those things around to create unique content across the site. But I think also to just optimize it to increase the page speed on the site, to do all those things to help the site to rank higher. And I think that I really get saddened because a lot of business owners and CEOs and entrepreneurs don't really realize that when they're not aware of what's happening on their site, or they're not aware of what's happening in their business, even asking those questions or they don't understand sometimes what's happening, it goes a long way towards like continuing to ask questions, continue to say, I don't understand this, can you explain this to me like I'm a five year old? That's okay, because there's unfortunately a lot of people that do take advantage of CEOs, entrepreneurs and business owners.

Gresh Harkless: [00:31:11] And right in line with what I talk about with CB Nation, it's all about like helping these business owners to succeed. And we try to do that in the best way possible. But that's just, you know, one example that I had, we had a sports, a nationwide, they were actually global, they did stuff in other countries, but they were a soccer company and they also had a bad experience. Another one of those I know enough to be dangerous. I know something's not right, but I don't know exactly what it is. But this was in relation to like building the website. They didn't have access to updating websites. They didn't have access to any of the aspects of the site. So what we really try to do is transition them over to something that, to WordPress, which is more of a content management system, that we could not only support them, but they can also do the updates themselves. We can be on call if they need something. We don't necessarily have to do everything. And just those things are huge because you own your business. Why not be able to own certain updates to your website? And if you need help, just be able to call people. So those are some of my favorite clients just because it's like a bad relationship or sometimes a bad ex where you're like, I don't want to date anymore. I don't want to deal with any other marketers. I don't want to talk to anybody. I don't want to do anything. And those end up coming from like referrals because they're really strong relationships and connections that we've been able to build. But those really are people that can and still are clients for years and years and years, largely because we take a step forward. We really try to have those communication and we try to make sure that we are helping to support them to succeed in the way that they want to succeed.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:42] Fantastic. Those are two great, great stories, and they show that how your expertise helped them to uncover a root cause that you are able to fix. And resolve the problem for them. So that's huge. Is there anything else, Gresh, that's on your mind that you would like to share about you, your business? What's coming up for the year?

Gresh Harkless: [00:33:14] You know, I think one of my favorite quotes that I always kind of come back to, and this was right in line with running your own race, is don't tell me that the sky is the limit when there's footprints on the moon. And the reason that I bring that up is because especially depending on where you are in the journey of business, entrepreneurship, life at that, there can be a lot of people that aren't necessarily cheering you on. And I had to experience that to some degree, especially when I started my business and said, this is what I want to do. This is my race. This is the essence of who I am. I did get pushback from that, and I just want to bring that up, because a lot of times when you're starting something new, you're trying to innovate, whether you're trying to get a new job or you're trying to start a new hobby, or you're learning to do something completely new for the first time, or you're trying to level up, whatever that is, I love this quote because I think there's so many times that we think that something is not possible, and that stops us in our tracks from ever trying.

Gresh Harkless: [00:34:15] So I would just encourage anybody to, there was once a time where, you know, we weren't going to reach the moon. There was once a time that we weren't going to be able to fly and the Wright brothers were able to make that. There's all these instances in history where people say that that's not possible, that's not going to happen. But I just would encourage everybody to make sure that you do take it upon yourself to say, I'm going to try and I'm going to try to make that happen. I'm going to try to do whatever it is I'm achieving, because there's a lot more naysayers than sometimes there are cheerleaders. But I think if you continue to drive home and do the things that you're hoping to do, some of those naysayers become cheerleaders. And that's when it becomes really awesome. But even if it doesn't, you know there's no worse regret than not trying. So try those things, do those things, and don't let the naysayers stop you in your tracks.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:02] That is absolutely beautiful and so very touching to hear and to end on. And so with that, I would love to give you a chance to share how our listeners can find you. What's the best way for them to reach out to you? Is there an email or a Calendly link?

Gresh Harkless: [00:35:23] Yeah, absolutely. Probably to make it easier for everybody, I have kind of a landing page called I am Gresh dot com - that's IAmGresh.com - that has links to set up a time to schedule with me, has links to the podcast, digital marketing, the e-book as well too, lots and lots of things that are there and make it super easy. But obviously I'm in the web design business, so I have a lot of different sites, but that is kind of the easiest way for you to find me and things that we're working on.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:53] Super fantastic. I can't thank you enough for giving me some time today, Gresh, and I can't wait to share our podcast with our listeners.

Gresh Harkless: [00:36:05] I appreciate you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Sara Sheehan: [00:36:06] Excellent. Thank you so much for listening to Episode Eleven, Running Your Own Race with Gresh Harkless. Here are the three takeaways from today's session. Embrace your uniqueness. Learn from Gresh's philosophy of running your own race, focusing on innate gifts, and carving your path in business and life. Two) Content as a bridge. Discover the strategic importance of content-based networking and how it can revolutionize your connections and collaborations. Three) Leverage your secret sauce. Gain insights into developing products and services that complement your brand's essence. Just as Gresh did with his blend of storytelling and business acumen. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I'm really thrilled to be able to share this wonderful conversation with you. As always, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify so you never miss an episode.

View Details

Sara Sheehan welcomes her friend and mentor Doug C. Brown to the show to talk about successful sales strategies. Doug C. Brown is the CEO of CEO Sales Strategies and is a Sales Revenue and Profit Growth Expert. Doug’s educational and working background is an impressive mix of varied skills, but he always knew he wanted to focus his energies on helping people achieve their best in sales.

Doug walks us through his storied career journey from serving in the United States Army to studying nuclear medicine to selling equipment to some of the top musical acts of the day, including Aerosmith, The Eagles, Boston, and Billy Joel. He learned to play a variety of instruments but he also recognized that confidence, not just skill, was what set those famous musicians apart. All of this culminated in a stunningly successful career in sales that led to working with Chet Holmes, Tony Robbins, and many other top-tier companies.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan learns how Doug shaped the strategies that he employs to raise sales revenue in the teams he works with. Doug breaks down exactly how he increased the revenue for Chet Holmes and Tony Robbins, by looking at the product sets, the revenue, and the lead base, and then segmenting offerings to directly appeal to each bracket of business the companies worked with. Doug’s incredible methods, innate instinct for sales, and personable follow-up approach have led not only to his own success but the success of so many other individuals and companies. Tune in to hear his invaluable advice.

About Doug C. Brown:

Doug C. Brown is the CEO of CEO Sales Strategies and a Sales Revenue and Profit Growth Expert. He is the founder of Vibitno and creator of the Top 1% Academy, where he trains on how to sell to buyers, whether they be CEOs, business owners, or entrepreneurs, and how to be in the top 1% of sales earners doing so. Doug also served as an independent President of Sales and Training for Tony Robbins, Chet Holmes, and Russ Whitney, where he raised the close rate of the sales presenter teams by 157%, as well as increased sales for one product line by 4150% in his first six months of taking over.

He believes that most people have the personal power and potential to be at the top 1% of earners, but lack the tools and knowledge of how to achieve this.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Ultimate Sales Machine: Turbocharge Your Business with Relentless Focus on 12 Key Strategies” by Chet Holmes

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Doug C. Brown | Sales Revenue and Profit Growth Expert:

• Website: CEOSalesStrategies.com
• Vibitno: Vibitno.com
• LinkedIn
• Email
• Download Doug’s free e-book “The Art and Science of Being a Nonstop 1% Earner in Sales”
• “Win-Win Selling: Unlocking Your Power for Profitability by Resolving Objections” By Doug Brown

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:03] Hi there, my name is Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with my friend and admired mentor Doug Brown about his business working with executives and business leaders on increasing their sales skills and improving their ability to close business. Doug helps salespeople and sales teams, and can even provide sales talent to companies looking for commission-only sellers. If you would like to learn more after listening to today's discussion, check out the show notes or a link to book a meeting with me or Doug. Doug, you have an absolutely fascinating backstory, at least to me you do. Because there are some common threads in your life that are still present in your business today. You grew up with an understanding of the value of hard work, having a fire deep inside to achieve more and do more and truly impact the outcome of your life. You've always pushed yourself to do and achieve more. You also served our country in the US military. What branch of the military were you in?

Doug Brown: [00:01:28] I was in the United States Army.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:30] Excellent. And so where did your service take you and what were your experiences there?

Doug Brown: [00:01:34] Well, it first took me to Oklahoma. That's where I was, that's where I went to basic training. Originally I was going to go into the medical field or I wanted to learn languages and I scored extremely high on what they call the ASVAB test, which, you know, I could pick anything I wanted. And so I picked a medical specialty. And then as I was just about to go to, you know, get set up to go to basic training, one of the long serving master sergeants that were there, he said, you know, you should go into this combat arms field. You could go into the artillery. And he said, you qualify as a fire direction controller. And I'm like, what's that? And he said, well, you plot all this data and do all these mathematical computations to make sure that you coordinate all the, you know, like air fire, land fire, all that cannon and missiles and all that stuff. And I'm like, well, it sounds kind of interesting. He's like, you'll make rank way faster, and, Sara, there's a bonus. And so, you know, at 19 years old, when you hear, you know, there's a I think it was $5,000 bonus at that time, it was like, well, okay, I'll do that. Right? And so.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:45] Right.

Doug Brown: [00:02:46] So I did. So that's what took me to Oklahoma because that was in Fort Sill. And eventually I came back to the medical field in the military. But the, that's how it took me there, it took me a lot through the United States. And then, you know, I was part of the Gulf War era as well. And so, yeah, I spent 12 years and 7 days, actually, in the military.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:10] That's a good amount of service. That is to be applauded, honestly.

Doug Brown: [00:03:15] Well thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah. It was a lot of, I had a lot of fun and a lot of good times too, you know. So, and I learned quite a bit. Some of the things I even carry through, you know, with me today about the, you know, the discipline side of it. And you learn a lot about people because in the military you meet all kinds of people from all different walks of life, from anybody from, you know, super high education to people who didn't even finish school. And, you know, because they had to either support their families or they were in a place where, you know, they, it was the military or prison, you know, that type of thing as well. So it was a really great experience for me. I wasn't prepared for it originally, but it definitely worked out. And, you know, it's served me all the way through my life at this point.

Sara Sheehan: [00:04:10] Excellent. I love the point that you made on discipline, because we can't forget that creating and laying down those habits, those habits are things that will serve you the rest of your life, no doubt about it. And so I understand that music was a really important part of your life, growing up years all the way through to adulthood. And I'm aware that you sold music equipment to some of the world's leading bands. Tell me about that.

Doug Brown: [00:04:44] Yeah, well, music is, music was always something that inspired me ever since I was just a young child, I remember. And my brothers used to listen to, they're a lot older than I am, I'm the youngest out of four, and, you know, my brother, my oldest brother is nine years older, so, I mean, he was listening to Aerosmith while I was still listening to, I don't know, Mister Rogers on television or whatever. Right? So, but I always remember hearing the music and in particular, complex musical arrangements were always really interesting to me as a child. And so I grew up in an environment in some capacity where good was never good enough. So it's like, you know, if you were really good in music, you weren't good enough to make it in music, that type of thing. And so for a lot of years I doubted myself, even though I played in a lot of bands. And then eventually, while I was going to college, I landed a job selling music equipment. And I then ended up working with, you know, Aerosmith and the Eagles and Billy Joel and Paul McCartney and the Wings and, you know, all the, you know, Extreme, all of the, a lot of the big bands of that, Boston, I was very close with some of those guys from the band. You know, a lot of those bands that people listen to even today on the radio, I got a chance to work with. And what happened was Barry from Boston, Goudreau, from Boston, one day said to me, man, you're really good as a musician. You should go to music school. And I was like, oh, well, thanks, Barry, you know? But like, so I decided, you know what? He's probably right. Let me give it a shot. So I said, well, I'll apply to some of the best schools out there. So the first one I applied to was Berklee College of Music in Boston, did my audition, they took me right away. I ended up going there.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:38] That's amazing.

Doug Brown: [00:06:39] Yeah, yeah. Well, it goes back to, you know, what I teach people a lot now is part of the winning process in selling is confidence. You know, confidence is sexy, so to speak. Right? And I worked with so many famous musicians and some of them frankly, weren't even that great as a musician. But what they had was confidence, when I look back on it, right. They had, they were good, don't get me wrong. But they weren't, you know, they weren't somebody you're going to see at the Met. You know what I mean? Like. So they, and I grew up, my grandmother was more of a classical pianist, so I grew up kind of in that environment as well. But what I realized was that most of them had the ability to say, you know what, I'm going to see this through and I'm confident I can do it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:30] Mhm. Absolutely.

Doug Brown: [00:07:31] They just they just stuck with it for a long time, you know. And there's certainly like bands like Kansas, you know, and I was, I worked with the drummer for Lou Reed. And he was in this band called Stories a long time ago. They had a song called 'Louie Louie Louie, Louie', you know, and, uh, super nice guy, but just all very confident, right? They were confident people. So that's the thing I learned from that process, and I wanted to be a professional musician. But then what happened was these guys and gals were telling me about their tour schedule and being on a bus for 300 days in a row, and I was like, you know what, I want a family and I want to be around for the kids and all of that stuff. So I decided not to do that. I became a professional DJ. I was one of the very strong, I would say, probably top ten DJs in the Boston area, you know, for a while. And then my kids started growing up and I was like, you know, I don't want to be out all night, all day, you know, because I was working six jobs a week, holding down a full-time position, you know, on top of because I was selling during that period of time as well.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:38] So that's a ton. And so just a couple follow-up questions. What kind of equipment were you selling?

Doug Brown: [00:08:43] So I was mostly I was selling, I was selling everything, but keyboards were my primary. So you know, anything from pianos to synthesizers to, you know, you name it, anything that had a key. I sold guitars, I sold bass guitars, I sold drums, woodwinds, brass instruments... I, you know, I learned them all.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:05] That's impressive.

Doug Brown: [00:09:06] Yeah. And what was really cool is I got a chance to start, you know, practicing other instruments as well. So I learned how to play saxophone and flute, which were never going to be something that I was, I'm terrible as a flutist, but, you know, I played guitar. And so it served me in the bands because I was a vocalist who played keyboards, and that was good enough. But then I could play bass, I could play other instruments. So that allowed me, you know, some other opportunities that I didn't have if I didn't play those.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:35] The reason I wanted to ask about this time in your life is I really wanted to highlight the fact that you clearly demonstrated your desire to do and achieve more by the behaviors that you were even practicing then, at selling. And I just wanted to make sure that I brought that up.

Doug Brown: [00:10:00] Yeah. And I think that's a really key component to being successful in anything is having the confidence level to say, you know, I'm going to do this in spite of if I don't feel confident at it and staying with it. And some of the best advice one of my mentors told me was, he said, you know, it's always going to take you longer to get to where you want to most of the time, and it's usually going to cost you 2 to 3 times more than you figure. But you'll always get your goal if you just keep your nose pointed in the direction you want to go and keep walking. And you know I think that's playing the long game. Right? And so that I think is, especially in selling, too many people try to play the short game. But the long game gives you leverage in the process. And I think you get leverage because even in age we get wisdom as we grow older, we go, oh, okay, yeah, I'm not going to do that again. You know, or when some younger person is going to do something, it's like, hey, did you think about it this way? Because you know what's likely to happen. But that comes through repetition, practice, seeing it through. And, you know, it's not always straight up, you know, I learned that working with the bands, I mean, these bands that we know today still, you know, they're out there touring. I mean, Aerosmith's out there still touring, right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:20] Absolutely. Yes. Paul McCartney is still making music. That's amazing.

Doug Brown: [00:11:25] And he probably will for forever. And you know, they didn't always have times that were what other people would consider fun, you know, nor did they. I mean, I remember even like older musicians like Sammy Davis Jr, when he was playing with the Rat Pack of Frank Sinatra and those guys, you know, he was saying publicly that sometimes he went in and played in Vegas and the casinos didn't want to pay him. And, you know, things like that. So it's like, it's a business. And that's what people forget about the music business, right? And so, yeah, like anything, you got to see it through and, you know, have that desire to keep going in spite of. I mean, Arnold Schwarzenegger didn't become the greatest bodybuilder in the world by, you know, getting up every day and going, I don't think I'll go to the gym today, you know, even when I don't want to. And he's admitted he had days like that, but he goes to the gym anyways.

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:21] That's the kind of habit that definitely changes the world, a habit that you do and you continue to practice and hone. And so I wanted to ask if you would share with me and our listeners a little bit about the multiple degrees that you have achieved.

Doug Brown: [00:12:45] Educationally? You mean formal education?

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:46] Yes. And I mean, you have consistently shown that you go above and beyond in everything that you do. And so I understand that you have at least three degrees.

Doug Brown: [00:13:01] Yes, I actually have five, five degrees. Yeah, I do.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:07] Tell me about your higher education achievements.

Doug Brown: [00:13:12] Well, part of, you know, so sometimes going above and beyond can be... Our greatest strength sometimes can be our Kryptonite, right? It could be our greatest weakness. And I got all these degrees because I really didn't, I knew what I wanted to do, but I didn't have that confidence to go forth and say, this is what I want to do, because it was one of those things that when I grew up in that environment, it was like, no, you have to be, you know, you have to have a job. You got to, you know, selling, my gosh, that's a soft skill. You know, it's like, that type of thing. So I mean, even universities looked at it that way. When I was looking for sales, you know, universities for selling, they were like, no, we don't do that. That's not a real degree. Right? So, you know, I got degrees in biology, nuclear medicine, business, finance, general studies, music, things like that. And, but I just didn't really know what I want. I couldn't put my finger on the this is what I want to do. Even though I knew internally that I would like to do this. Like my driver in life is to see other people's faces light up and have a good time and grow and give them and instill, you know, the ability to to do more than they think they could ever do.

Doug Brown: [00:14:29] And that came up partially from my childhood of not having that and battling through and overcoming that myself. But it was always something, like when I was a, you know, younger person - I'm 61 now, right - so when I was a younger person, I could always remember me thinking like this. It's like, you know, I'm almost like an empath in some way where somebody's, you know, having a hard time. I want to help them out of that. And so that's what I wanted to do, and I wanted to get paid for that. And I knew that. But I just didn't know how because I was in an educational system that frankly, wasn't really allowing or I couldn't see that ability to do so, you know, because it's like, okay, well, if you go get a degree in finance, you got to work for a bank or you got to work for an insurance, you know, or whatever. If you get a degree in business, you want to go into business administration because you got to have your MBA. Because if you don't have your MBA back, then you know, that was nothing. You know all these rules, right? Which are quite frankly, um, not true.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:29] That's right. And so, Doug, how do you think, how did you come to understand that the sales world was where you needed to be? How did you figure that out?

Doug Brown: [00:15:42] So I have, you know, sometimes necessity is the mother of all invention, as they say. So what happened was I got out of the military, I had a college education, you know, some then, but I was like, you know what? I'm going to go get a real job. And I wasn't out of the military yet. And I'm like, you know, I'm going to be a doctor. That's a real job, right? It's a respected job. So I applied to medical school, I got accepted, and while I was in medical school, the Gulf War came up. And so they were like, you have a critical skill, we need you for this, so guess what, you can't go to medical school right now. And in the meantime, I went through a divorce. So, you know, when I got, when the Gulf thing ended, so did my marriage, basically. So it was like I lost all my money that I had saved to go to medical school, but I was determined, so I kept reapplying. I got re-accepted, and then I got accepted into the nuclear medicine program at the university I was in. I could start that before waiting for another year of college. So I was like, okay, I'll finish this because I can finish it in a year because I had so many credits and I went through that and I got into the hospital setting, but now I'm $20,000 in debt from taking loans for college. And, you know, this was way back, back, back, back, you know, in the late 80s at that point. And so I was like, jeez, I can't find a job in the hospital because what happened is the hospital industry kind of was dropping at that point. It was kind of, healthcare was in a transition. I applied for 308 positions in nuclear medicine across the United States. I got three responses. I got a job in Kentucky, now I lived in Massachusetts at the time. I was getting ready to pack up to go to Kentucky because I got accepted in the job, and ten days before I was to leave, they cut the budget for the hospital and they cut the nuclear medicine program out at the hospital.

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:44] That's horrific. That is truly, that is so, it's more than the wind out of your sails. That is devastating.

Doug Brown: [00:17:53] Yeah, because, I mean, it wasn't the easiest degree to get, number one, and I had to pass all the tests to get there. And I agree with you. But, you know, it turned out to be a happy story because during that time it was like, well what am I going to do? Right? So I started selling telecommunication services for a multi-level marketing company and it was called Excel Telecommunications. So like, I got to make some money, because I got to at least pay my loans and live. Right? So I started doing that, and then I got offered a position to take emergency call for a hospital locally, which means basically you're up 24 hours a day when they need you, you come in, they pay you. So I was doing that and I was like, geez, this is kind of weird because then when I was in the hospital setting, what I realized was I got in this to help people, but the hospital runs like a business. And so, you know, if I could do five cases a day, they want me to do seven. If I can get seven, they want me to do nine and eleven, and so on and so on. And I was like, that's not why I signed up for this. And when I was in the hospital, they started talking to me about a full-time position, but I was making less money in that full-time position than I was selling music equipment, having a really good time.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:09] That's a, that's hard. That's a hard pill to swallow.

Doug Brown: [00:19:12] Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so what I said at that point is, you know what? I'm going to try to give this thing sales a real shot. And so I had a little bit of a telecommunications background. So I applied to telecommunications companies, and one of them, right out of the gate, hired me. And I was like, okay, cool. But they were selling something that I had never sold before. So I overnighted myself three telecommunications engineering books, and I looked at them and I studied up on all this digital technology that at the time was cutting edge. Well, long story short, my first year I was their number one rep in the company.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:55] That's impressive.

Doug Brown: [00:19:56] Yeah, and eventually we had--

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:57] -- really impressive.

Doug Brown: [00:19:58] Yeah, it was great. I mean, we had 320 salespeople at the, you know, toured there. I was the number one guy. I was out-selling, you know, sometimes teams of nine, you know, by myself. Um, I developed a lot of different ways to drive leads to incoming. You know, the CEO of the company was regularly calling me going, what are you doing? I love it, you know, you want to come out to Los Angeles and teach our people out here or come, you know, all over the country. And it was a great thing. And the thing is, is BAM, started making six figure income. Right.

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:29] Nice.

Doug Brown: [00:20:30] And I was like, okay, well, why would I go--

Sara Sheehan: [00:20:32] It's transformative.

Doug Brown: [00:20:33] Yeah. And then it was a multi six. And then, you know, then I got offered a position within and they offered me $450,000 a year for this position. And back then that was still, you know, today it's reasonable money. But back then it was like a lot more money. And I was like jeez, there's something here. And so then what happened was they wanted me to train their teams. And so because I was doing something that was working and then what happened was I helped a training company and the training company asked me to train their people and introduce me to a man named Chet Holmes. Chet wrote a book called The Ultimate Sales Machine. And when I looked at Chet's stuff, I was like, wow, this is really good for business. So I started studying that. As I started studying that, I approached them and said, hey, would you give me a chance to be a coach for your company on growing revenues and companies and things like that? Chet said, yes, I came in there and there and in the first four months, I became their top producing coach, and all I was doing was applying sales skills to the process.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:37] Excellent. And so if you were to look back at your position that you were just describing where you achieved remarkable results, are they the same skills that you were using in your role as a coach with Chet Holmes organization? Are they the same skills?

Doug Brown: [00:21:59] They were. So the thing is, see, I didn't know much about coaching. I knew some about coaching. But what I did understand was that you can't deliver coaching without having a client. And so if you don't have a client, what's the cause of the problem of not having a client? Well, we're not selling, right? So what I did is applied sales methodology to the coaching business. And so I looked at, you know, all of the things that I teach today. How do you get new clients? How do you increase buying trends? You know, transactional value. How do you increase buying frequency? Right? All of the processes. And I just applied it. And what was happening was I was dealing with business owners especially, and they recognized, oh, okay, this guy can help me, at that time the kid, can help me get there. And so they were they were buying because they had I mean, people buy for two reasons really, when it comes down to it, two major reasons. Number one, they have a problem they want to resolve. Or two, they have some future opportunity that they want to get. Mhm. And, you know, so some type of providing a better future for themselves.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:17] That's right.

Doug Brown: [00:23:18] So those are the two major arching categories I find that people want to make an investment. Nobody really likes to be sold to, they like to buy. So if we solve those two challenges for them, one way or another, then you know, and if it makes sense, timing's right, all of the factors, you know, we have a sale. It's, you know, as long as we're playing win-win. So that's what I did and I applied that. It worked out great. From there, you know, a man named Tony Robbins came along, wanted to buy into the company. So eventually I became the president of training and sales for that company. And I took Tony's close rate from 17.8% to 43.2% across his presenters teams. And then his sales teams went up and the coaching went up and the consulting went up, and then people started taking notice, you know, of me, I was starting to make a name in that industry, so other people hired me. I worked for Russ Whitney on Rich Dad, Poor Dad and a bunch of other brands. We did work for Brian Tracy, Deepak Chopra, the E-myth Company. You know, the list just goes on, right? The Ask Method company, all kinds of things.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:23] It's impressive. I mean, it's amazing.

Doug Brown: [00:24:27] Thank you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:28] Amazing transformation. And so, let's switch gears and talk a little bit about how you're working with clients today and how how you're serving them. And then maybe we can highlight a couple of cases that demonstrate results in your clients' lives.

Doug Brown: [00:24:50] So how I'm working with people today, so I work, I still work with companies and individuals today. I train individuals who want to, who are good who want to get better, really, when it comes down to it in selling. So, you know, I move them from the next level of where they are to the next level. I mean, it's that simple. You know, it's been very gratifying to see people take the steps from point A to point B, and a lot of them take the step from point A to point M, right? It's because we get them, we get them going, and then they're like, oh, well, I can do better at this or I can do better at that. And really what we're doing is we're teaching them how to think, act like a 1% earner, using 1% strategies and infusing that in and mixing it in with the, what I call the inner guidance system. You know, the inner voice of selling, if you will. And because a lot of times, most times, business challenges are not a business challenge, Sara, they're they're a personal challenge that manifests themselves as a business problem.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:58] Or potentially mindset.

Doug Brown: [00:26:00] Yeah, a lot of people call it mindset. I'm not a big fan of that word because mindset kind of means it's stuck there. You know, it's like set, right. And, you know, on any given day we wake up with different moods, most of us, or I'll speak for myself. So it's about taking where we are, and you brought up the word habits in the beginning, the rituals and the habits that we do, those are great as long as they're serving. But if we're selling, for example, and we grew up - because a lot of these things stem from childhood - you know, if we grew up in, say, in a negotiation family, right? And I've witnessed people do this, you know, they're always negotiating. They were rewarded for negotiating. Well, they close the sale, and then they renegotiate the sale, and they lose the sale because they're renegotiating. Right? So it's things like that, and they don't even know why they're doing it. So we work on those triggers that happen as well as all of the strategies and tactical things. But what we're also doing is teaching them revenue growth strategies in the process, how to think like an owner, how to think like a business person, how to think like the other person that we're actually selling to because we're not selling to titles, we're selling to people. And so what are the trigger levels for those people? So we're going pretty deep into that whole process with people and it works great. You know, I've had people go, like I had one guy go from $140,000 a year in commissions to 2.1 million in commissions in this first year. You know, I've had--

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:31] That's beyond transformative.

Doug Brown: [00:27:33] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's not just one person that I've had have results like that. So, usually people tell us, you know, we're worth at least five times what we asked for for the process. So that's always a good thing, because I always like to provide a minimum 5 to 1 return on the on the process. So, and then with companies we're helping them with two facets where a) just growing the revenues and the profits in the company, and b) you know, how do they work with their own sales teams or sales people and, you know, have them become what they want them to become anyways, which is, you know, far better producers. And then, you know, as a byproduct of that, we also build and manage sometimes, you know, commission sales teams for people and companies.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:26] That is so impressive. I believe that the work that you do is needed by so many people that don't even recognize it.

Doug Brown: [00:28:37] Yeah, I would agree. I was having a conversation earlier with somebody actually who decided to buy something off me, which was great. So he was saying the same thing. He was like, you know, I don't think people understand. They don't know what they don't know, so to speak, and that we all want to be able to sell better, but we don't want to be that personified, you know, used car salesperson. His words, not mine. I think sometimes used car salespeople are really great people and they sell ethically. But the, you know, he didn't want to be that slimy salesperson. And a lot of the training he goes to, it's just kind of teaching them to come top down on people like the the old way of selling, like the old Tin Man selling strategies. Right? Those don't work. Almost don't work at all any longer, but they're still being taught out there. And really, selling is nothing more than one person, because sometimes we sell ourselves, or more than one person trying to resolve a challenge or have a better future. And having that conversation to figure out what is the best pathway to do that. And people have been doing this long before people were selling to one another. You know, it's just we didn't have maybe a formal thing or exchange for money, but we used to do bartering systems, or we would do something else. Right? And that's, so it's, you know, I mean it's been around as long as human beings have been around.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:05] Absolutely. And so let's switch gears again. And if you can, highlight a couple of your client case studies and what those clients achieved after working with you.

Doug Brown: [00:30:23] Yeah, well, I'll take Tony Robbins and Chet Holmes. Their company was great. What I did with them is, because I was the number one producer, they were asking me to help other people, so I had to kind of figure out, deconstruct what I was doing. So I started teaching that to their people. But one of the things that I've learned early on was always look at the numbers. And a lot of people don't look at the numbers in their business. Because the numbers tell a story. So one of the ways I was able to get that close rate to change was to look at the numbers, because at the time they were putting out a one size fits all product, which, you know, and it never ceases to amaze me. I've worked with Intuit, Proctor and Gamble, I've worked with Enterprise Rent-A-Car, you know, nationwide, big companies. And they miss it. They miss the one size all sometimes doesn't work, right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:17] So talk to me. Talk to me a little bit about what the detail and the numbers revealed. Is it actual number of times.

Doug Brown: [00:31:25] Yeah. So for example they were offering a training product. The training product was geared toward, I would say, upper small businesses to enterprise level clients. But when I looked at their lead base, 70% of the leads coming through were under $300,000 in revenue. Which would be a small company. So there was a training mismatch. So from the message was bringing them in but the actual deliverable was actually off. So there was a market to mismatch messaging. And so what I did is I looked at this and I segmented the audience. And so I broke down the audience in three components. People under under 300,000 people 300,000 up to a million, well, actually it was 4, up to $1 million, $1 million to $5 million, and then $5 million and beyond. And I took the same product sets that they had, and I just readjusted the messaging, but I adjusted it to the audience and what they needed at that level that they were coming in. So, for example, anybody under $1 million, they're full focus should be on just getting new clients and increasing transactional value and regeneration of clients. Right? They should be going to get to $1 million just focused on selling. When we go from a million to say, let's say, 5 million, we're still focused on that, but now we're focused on putting systems and processes and things into the business to make the business be able to scale.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:07] Mhm.

Doug Brown: [00:33:07] When you get beyond 5 million for most companies, and these are just general benchmarks, right - I mean it depends on the industry and what they're selling - from there now we're talking about scaling that business in a different way. So you might have, as $1 million company, you might have one sales person. As a $5 million company, you might have 3 or 4 salespeople. Right? But now to get from 5 million to 50 million, you're going to scale that sales team.

Sara Sheehan: [00:33:36] For sure.

Doug Brown: [00:33:36] It's, that's what I did, is I segmented the offerings. And then I trained the sales teams on how to sell to the right level and how to have the conversation with that person on that level, because a person who's doing $300,000 a year in a business, if they, let's say it's their first business, and a person who's doing to the extreme $300 million, that conversation with the owner is going to be very different.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:05] Very different.

Doug Brown: [00:34:07] Right. So I train the teams on how to relate and communicate on that level, the sales teams, and I segmented the product mix. And so to give you an example, they had one on the under $300,000. They were converting it less than 1%. And I took what they had as they call the sales mastery system, I revamped that, just added six weeks worth of group coaching. They were selling this originally for $800, it was $795. I brought the product up to $1450, added some group coaching to it. Now, prior to me getting there, they were selling 8 of these a month on average, in our first month of segmenting that, they went from 8 and we got 108 sales our first month.

Sara Sheehan: [00:34:55] Wow.

Doug Brown: [00:34:57] Our second month we went to 232. The third month we went to 346, I believe the number was. Right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:06] That is amazing.

Doug Brown: [00:35:08] Yeah. So it's, again, this is what I did internally by looking at the numbers. And then I went back to their sales teams and I looked at their numbers on their front end of the sales. And we were able to get the conversion to go, strange but the sales management was reporting skewed numbers, which is not unusual, but they were claiming they were closing at 19%. They were closing at 12.1%. We then were able to revamp it, do the same thing I did with the other teams, and we took that from 12, 12.1% to 21%. And the thing is, is I had that position there for five years and it never came down. The numbers never came down for the five year period I was there.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:51] That is very impressive. And that is a wonderful illustration of the results of your work.

Doug Brown: [00:35:59] Yeah, yeah. And it can be, it can be, you know, something like that. It could be, you know, with Intuit, they were losing $10 million on a division. We got them to go from a $10 million loss to a $7 million gain in one year. But it was all messaging, you know, they were messaging out the wrong message. I had another company that I showed how to build an agent base. Right? They were doing internal sales, but they wanted to expand and grow. They went from 3.5 million to 10 million, took them two years to get there, and then they went to 11 million and they got an offer to buy out, which the owner told me was ridiculous money. So it was like a, you know, five x multiple on revenue. It was really interesting. So, you know, I've done that. And then, you know, there's a lot of different, uh, small and medium sized businesses that I could tell stories about. But the whole bottom line is when we look at the numbers, we're applying strategies of the 1%, companies who are doing those type of things, but taking them into small and medium sized business, applying those into the sales teams themselves, training people on how to act and think that way, it does work, and it's been working for a long time for people.

Sara Sheehan: [00:37:15] Mhm. Right. That is a remarkable thing. A lot of people, if they applied some of these practices, activities and habits in their daily lives, they would see tremendous results. Which is why I wanted to highlight you so, so much. I was wondering if we could switch gears and you could chat a little bit with me about your upcoming launch with Vibitno.

Doug Brown: [00:37:46] Yeah, yeah Vibitno's been a, it's been a passion of mine for a long time. So the Vibitno is a personalized, meaningful, follow up system. That's why it was started. Because you talked about habits and rituals, right? A lot of people do not follow up with people. And they, in a lot of ways, it's not their fault, especially in the business context, because, you know, I mean, when you start getting 100, 200, 300 people you're talking with on a regular basis, it's like, how do you follow up with all these people? How do you stay in touch? But Vitbino was, is coming out in 2024, and the Vibitno is solving that problem for people. And it came about through our own pain. Like when, even when I was in the telecommunications world, a friend of mine who was a top producer at another company, we went to a Panera Bread one day and we were, you know, which is for those people who don't know that that's like a sandwich shop, bakery, it's kind of a chain. And we were sitting there and just, I'll say, commiserating or, you know, bitching about our days like, oh, we can't get this done, or I wish we had this and I can't follow up with these people, I can't do this. And I have, you know, losing sales here. And it's, you know, when you're when you're hitting high numbers, you don't want to lose money. It's that simple. Right? So we had assistance to cover some of this stuff but it still wasn't getting done. And we were like man, if we just had a technology that would do this. And so we wrote down on a back of a napkin everything we wanted. And I was like, you know, I'm going to build this. Well, technology wasn't there then to be able to do that, but it is now. And so I explained--

Sara Sheehan: [00:39:32] And so is this, is this a CRM system with automation?

Doug Brown: [00:39:37] I popped, I put a CRM into the system. But what it was really designed for, I mean, I don't know in your life, Sara, but let's say, you know, there are relationships that I have made over the years where it's like, you know, I want to get in touch with them more often just to keep the relationship alive. But it's like I just get busy, you know, I got a couple businesses I'm running, I've got client work I'm doing, you know?

Sara Sheehan: [00:40:04] Absolutely.

Doug Brown: [00:40:04] You know, family for me is primary, so my children are, you know, I'm always involved in their lives, probably more than that they even want me to be. But it's, you know, I can't help it, I'm that type of dad. And, you know, then I have my personal friendships and all this stuff, and it's like, literally sometimes it's hundreds or thousands of people over time, but I just couldn't stay in touch with these people. And so I was like, I've got to do something, but I don't want to just send like, some scripted message to them. I want it to be meaningful, right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:40:38] Absolutely.

Doug Brown: [00:40:39] Yeah.

Sara Sheehan: [00:40:40] Personal.

Doug Brown: [00:40:40] So what I wanted to do, you know, if you don't mind me sharing this, like, you know, you just had a cat that just passed that you had for 16 years, and you have another one that's seven years old and you just found out it's a diabetic and you're taking care of that. And, you know, so something as a simple bonding point on that, what if I could create something that would create automated relevancy that was meaningful to you and let's say, like, after this call, I don't know, a month goes by and you get a message. And it was like, hey, so just thinking about you, your husband, but I was also thinking about Joy, your cat. And I just want to know how's the cat doing with diabetes? Right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:41:25] That is, that's very sweet. I love that. Heartfelt.

Doug Brown: [00:41:30] And it's meaningful. Right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:41:32] Absolutely.

Doug Brown: [00:41:34] You know, hey, if you ever want to catch up, just let me know. You would just be in thought, or something as simple as that. Now a lot of people go, well, that's not very businessy. It's like, well, let me tell you something, I've followed up with people for two years and then got a little company called NASCAR as a client from it. Right? So I would learn things about people. So what we did with Vibitno is we recreated all that, but the system will actually create everything for you. And it'll, even if you forget, it'll bring the content up and say, hey, do you want to send this? Or it will actually send the content for you based on relevancy.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:09] Wow. And so is there some machine learning aspect, or...?

Doug Brown: [00:42:13] Yeah, in the beginning it was templates in there trying to figure out, you know, templates. But now with AI and everything coming in the way it is, it's a lot easier to implement this process. And it was really designed not as, it was designed as a relationship building tool, not a real sales tool. But people kept saying, my gosh, you know what? What if I could do this on the front end? What if I could do this with my marketing on the front end? I sell high end clients, for example, right? And then I started talking to people who were selling high end and asking them how many deals a year are you dropping? And so, you know, then I started looking at, and they're like, well, probably six. And I'm like, well, if you think it's six, it's more, I already know that. So what's your average deal? Well, it's $30,000. So it's like so you're dropping 180 K out of the sky every year. How many years are you doing that? Oh ten. There's 1.8 million, right? I'm like, okay, well would you pay 100 bucks a month for service that would gain back the majority of those sells, right? Because we all know, and this was the epitome, I was actually on a, someone asked me to come to a sales consultant training call where they're training sales consultants.

Sara Sheehan: [00:43:25] Perfect.

Doug Brown: [00:43:26] And we all know that lack of follow up causes lost sales. I mean, that's pretty much, right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:43:32] Absolutely.

Doug Brown: [00:43:32] So this lady literally said on this call, guys, I just dropped the sale. We go, we're talking about this, I just dropped the sale and it went to another representative. She was an independent marketer for another company, and she had talked to this company a year ago, and this company had just closed and she didn't follow up. And she told us, she said, I didn't follow up and the other person just happened to follow up. And they were ready then and they bought and it was 500 units and it was $1,000 a unit, and they bought it for five years. So it's like--

Sara Sheehan: [00:44:12] That was painful.

Doug Brown: [00:44:13] Yeah. So half $1 million a year for five years, $2.5 million. Now the killer is, her commission is 50% on this.

Sara Sheehan: [00:44:22] This is horrible.

Doug Brown: [00:44:23] Right? So she lost $1.25 million over five years. Guaranteed contract. You know, so you get what I'm saying, right?

Sara Sheehan: [00:44:33] I do. I see that companies will pay for this tool. Having this platform in their lives can make selling easier and better.

Doug Brown: [00:44:47] And individuals will as well. And that's, you know, like I talked to real estate agents, I'm like, how many homes are you drop in a year, right? And they were like, well, I don't know. You know, same numbers. And I'm like, okay, so your average commission at a $500,000 price point 6%, $30,000, you're dropping ten homes a year, 300 grand a year, right? You start doing the numbers whether you're a manufacturer's representative or you're selling healthcare, you're a coach or a consultant or whatever, but the reality is, it's not just the drop sales, because it's how many referrals could we spawn out of good relationships that we're not doing today? So there's this whole thing about buying frequency, transactional value, and getting new clients that were just dropping, even post selling. And so it was, you know, that's kind of where it's going. But yeah, I put a CRM into it, just so if people wanted to use the CRM, but I want to be able to make it work with other programs and products like, you know, Salesforce and Pipedrive or whatever people are using as well. And then what I did is I built in what I call a goal plan into this process where people can actually figure out if they want to make net commissions of X, they need to be able to sell a certain amount. But we figured in all the churn rates and all the drop sales and all of the expenses and everything, so they'll know exactly what they need to sell every year.

Sara Sheehan: [00:46:11] That is a genius thing to add that really demonstrates your sales leadership and your knowledge in leading a sales organization. I can't wait to see it. Truly, I can't wait to see it.

Doug Brown: [00:46:28] Well, if you want, you want to be a beta tester, let me know because we're coming out with it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:46:32] I would be glad. I would be glad. I spent some time on your page today. And I'm on your list.

Doug Brown: [00:46:39] Oh. Thank you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:46:41] Yeah, excellent. And so, in terms of our listeners, I want them to know the actual website URL is V I B I T N O.com. Is that correct?

Doug Brown: [00:46:53] Yeah it's Vibitno. Yep. That's exactly how it's spelled. And it actually means, I took it from a Slavic language, it means 'you matter' in Slavic language or you know, or 'esteemed one', you know.

Sara Sheehan: [00:47:05] Excellent. I love the name, and I love what you're doing with this platform. And I believe it will only extend your impact even further and bring more people to you that can transform their lives and the lives of the people in theirs as well. And so with that, uh, Doug, is there anything else that you would like to share today about what you're up to?

Doug Brown: [00:47:31] No, no, I think it's all good. I mean, I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but I wrote an e-book just recently called The Nonstop 1% Earner. People want to get that. They can go to CEOSalesStrategies.com/TheNumberOne and then PE, percent earner, and just download the e-book.

Sara Sheehan: [00:47:52] Excellent. That is a wonderful promo for your e-book. I will make sure to go find that myself because I feel very strongly about the advice that you have and how you're guiding people, and I know that it can even impact me in a positive way.

Doug Brown: [00:48:12] I appreciate that, and if anybody wants to learn, we've got a 1% University, a Sales University that's out now. And you know, if they want to come explore that, please do. They definitely won't be disappointed, I can tell you that.

Sara Sheehan: [00:48:25] Excellent. Do you have a mastermind that's forming any time soon?

Doug Brown: [00:48:29] I don't have a mastermind. People have been asking me about forming a mastermind, so I might put something together on that. We train pretty heavily on the sales side, so, you know, it's usually multiple times a week. So it kind of acts like a mastermind, but it's not really that type of mastermind. So I am considering putting one together. So thanks for bringing it up again. And I just wrote it down.

Sara Sheehan: [00:48:48] Outstanding. Well, I really appreciate your time today, Doug. Is there any way that our listeners should reach out to you? What's the best way?

Doug Brown: [00:48:57] Yeah, they can, I mean, if they want to know more about me personally, LinkedIn is usually good. Uh, Doug Brown, DOUG BROWN 123 is the LinkedIn. They can send an email to you matter, YouMatter@CEOsSalesStrategies.com. My team will pick it up. You know, if they want to get directly to me, they can send it to Doug@CEOSalesStrategies.com. We answer everybody's inquiries. So if for some reason you don't hear back, you know, reach out at (603) 595-0303 and let us know. But we do, we are definitely very good at getting back to people.

Sara Sheehan: [00:49:36] Fantastic. Well I really appreciate your time today, Doug, and I'm so glad to be able to share your message.

Doug Brown: [00:49:42] Thank you. I'm very grateful you have me on, Sara.

Sara Sheehan: [00:49:45] Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to Episode Ten, CEO Sales Strategies with Doug C Brown. I'm so thrilled to be able to share this conversation with you. The three big takeaways from today are, First) Rethink pricing and value. Doug's strategy of increasing product prices while adding value through group coaching led to a remarkable surge in sales. This approach not only improved revenue, but also positioned products more attractively in the market. Second) The power of personalized follow ups. The upcoming launch of Vibitno showcases the importance of maintaining relationships in a bustling business environment. Utilizing CRM and AI technology, Doug stresses the significance of relationship-building over transactional sales. Third) Leverage 1% improvements. Now that's a winning strategy. Small continuous enhancement in sales skills and team performance can lead to exponential growth over time. Doug's concept of 1% strategies can help clients not just compete, but dominate in their respective fields. Thanks so much for tuning in today. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify so you never miss an episode!

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Sara Sheehan welcomes Jocelyn Chong - Business Consultant, Corporate Trainer, and Professional Speaker - to the podcast to talk about Jocelyn’s work in coaching executives and business leaders in the power of money mindset, sales, leadership, and business development. Jocelyn shares her own personal journey through the financial world into a deeper realization of herself.

When Jocelyn talks about her career journey, it’s a story filled with milestones and financial success, but well into it she realized that something was missing. She took some time off to rest, reflect, and discover who she was. What she learned was that she needed alignment in her internal and external worlds. She built her consultancy business out of this realization.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan learns about Jocelyn’s coaching techniques and how she assists clients to achieve success in their business journeys. Jocelyn’s focus on the mindset of leadership and sales allows her to support her clients in understanding the positive side of what they do and how they can influence their clients for the better. The conversation invites us to think about more than just financial success but to examine what we truly want out of our work.

About Jocelyn Chong, MBA, GAICD:

With a solid background in banking and finance, Jocelyn brings a unique and fresh layer of expertise to the corporate training world. Her research and practical experience in the corporate world truly enhance her ability to guide clients toward success in both individual and organizational contexts.

Jocelyn specializes in helping entrepreneurs and executives realize the success they desire. They often encounter a common challenge – while exceptionally skilled in their respective fields, their leadership and sales strategies are often improvised. Lacking the necessary support and growth-oriented feedback, they struggle to cultivate the right mindset, expand their outreach, and sell purposefully.

It doesn't have to be this way.

Every talented and dedicated professional possesses something valuable and deserves to reach their full potential without the endless grind and desperate hustle. To address this, Jocelyn developed personalized offerings, including corporate training, private coaching and workshops, all based on her signature methodology. This method focuses on renewing mindset, self-leadership, magnetic selling, and embodiment.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• “Playing Big” by Tara Mohr

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Contact Jocelyn Chong | CEO & Founder, Seed To Sequoia:

• Website: JocelynChong.com.au
• LinkedIn

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Transcript:

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:04] Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with my friend Jocelyn Chong about her business, coaching executives and business leaders on the power of money mindset, sales leadership and business development. Jocelyn is a beautiful example of her own work in mastering her own mindset and helping others to do the same so that they can make their next big leap of growth in their business. If you would like to learn more after listening to today's discussion, check out the show notes for a link to book a meeting with me or Jocelyn. So, Jocelyn, welcome. I'm so glad to have you here today. Tell me and our listeners a little bit about your back story that led to you starting your business. I know from our friendship that you were born in Malaysia and moved to Australia as a teen, but I would love to hear the story from you.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:01:22] Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sara, for inviting me to be part of this show and picking up from your point there, I was born and raised in Malaysia. I left home when I was 17 to pursue my tertiary education in Australia, and I graduated with accounting and finance so it was a natural step to move to accounting firms. So I work for Ernst & Young and at Ernst & Young I was discovering a lot of areas that I like and I don't like, and I enjoyed what I did in accounting, and my client one day decided that they wanted to offer me a job in their company because I was helping them in a number of ways that made a huge difference on their business outcomes and results. So I accepted the role and relocated from South Australia to Victoria within four weeks. And in that four weeks, I've learned so much about transition and change management and adapting to a whole new city. I then work for that organization, which is a nationwide organization, it's a private, family-owned business on recycling and waste management. Travel around the country, did their internal audits and learn a great deal but realize that I've always, always wanted to work for a bank. So I took the courage to leave accountancy and move into banking. I applied for the role for the second largest bank at the time in Australia, Westpac, and secured a position in retail banking.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:03:08] From there I learned all the banking systems, you know, customer journey. I was very, very clear with all the different products and services that would add value to the different markets or people that come my way. Because I excelled in the work that I did in retail banking, one of the senior managers, when they came into our area and started chatting to me about financial planning, investments and helping people in retirement planning, and I realized that was something that I wanted to pursue, but I didn't know how to. And he mentored me for a few weeks and told me what course I could do in order to pursue financial planning. And I invested time over the weekend working full-time on Saturday and Sundays to study hard. And at that time, actually, I might add, I was working on a Saturday as well because I was working five and a half days a week. I wanted to actually work hard, save a deposit for my own home, and you can imagine how challenging it is if you are renting and you're trying to save for a deposit for your own home, it's one of the most challenging time because you want to go out. You're young and there's so many things that you could do, but yet, you know, you are so conscious about the financial component.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:04:40] And so I went through that journey, and I very much appreciated that I was able to save enough deposit to buy my own place. And I also pursued the financial planning career after I completed and certified myself with all the necessary certifications for financial planning in Australia. From there, I had 15 plus year career in financial planning, moved up into leadership and move up into national projects, work alongside very senior leaders like CEOs, board management, and different departments as well, different department heads. And then later with the Australian regulator, our Australian Tax Office, as our stakeholder, to implement a number of mega huge projects that roll out over time. I was also involved in a lot of national projects on digitization and change management. And I learn a great deal. But equally, when I was learning a great deal, I was losing myself in the world of chasing after the next role, chasing after that shiny object, you know? I was at one point in one season in my life that I was dressing, every part of me was wearing somewhat a brand because I allow my identity to be connected to, you know, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, driving a BMW, you know, just...

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:05] Sure.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:06:06] Those high life. But I was so far away from the truth of who I am, my authentic self. And I didn't know any different. And looking back at it now, I realized how limiting that was because I was sold the idea by media, by publications, by the way the society associates success with is with all those brands, all those achievements, external stuff that you do, the travels that you go to.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:06:40] But I was losing the true Jocelyn in me, and I started to realize around the age of 38 that there was something more, that working 60 hours a week earning great income isn't exciting anymore. I know that there's something more, but I couldn't quite pinpoint what exactly was that. I was continuously searching, looking for it, and I didn't have really associated with good connections, friends outside of work, because my role was banking and finance. I was surrounded by people in banking and finance. I was making friends with in the organization, and I had very few friends outside of finance industry. And one day I came across a book by Tara Mohr called Playing Big, and I could not put that book down. And I was reading that book within a day. And I realized something that was really speaking to me. She was, almost every page was reading my thoughts and asking me to break away from all this environment that was so limiting, but yet do the world, its achievement to the world, it's something that you want to excel for. And the work that she talked about was...

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:08] What was the title of that book?

Jocelyn Chong: [00:08:10] Playing Big by Tara Mohr.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:12] Playing big.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:08:12] Playing Big by Tara Mohr.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:14] Thank you so much.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:08:16] Yes. And that was one of the first few books that I read that was non-finance related. And it was very much about seeking your own soul's calling, seeking your burning desire. Because in finance and in banking, you always want to achieve the company's goals, the company's vision, the company's expectation, and pleasing your leaders because you want to get plum assignments. And so I did that because I thought that was the way, that was the way to navigate through office politics. But then that was also not aligned with my true core values that I had always wanted to embrace in my life. I felt there was such a distance in me. There was a tug of war with my external self and my internal self. Fast forward to 2019, we had a Royal Commission for Banking and Finance in Australia, and that was wrapped up with 73 recommendations in February 2019. And at the time, the organization that I was working with decided to spin off their entire investment financial planning arm. And once they announced that in March 2019, we made the entire division, thousands of people, redundant by 1st of July 2019. Now I was making different job families redundant because I was a senior leader. So my role was to help people work through that, and there were so many job families that was under my responsibility.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:09:54] But equally, my manager was making me redundant too, because it was trickled down that way. So I was trying to hold space for my direct reports and people around us and trying to make things work as best as we can for our clients, because we need to transition all our clients out into other organizations so that other people, other financial advisors, can help them. So I suppress my emotions to process that pain. After I was made redundant the second week of July, I had time to myself. I started then to work through and process the grief of being made redundant. I never knew the significance about that until I went through that, because I'm always the one that, you know, I did many rounds of redundancies over my career in the last 23 years. Because you hire, you fire, and you train your on board. And so that was something that you do, even though it's a very painful process. But you also need to meet your business results. That hit me. And I started to realize that at that point in time I needed to pause and not work for a couple of months just to recollect myself, because I was so immersed in the corporate career that I was selling my soul to the devil, so called.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:11:32] And I realized that I need to take control back and reflect. What would I want to do for the next chapter of my career? I've done over two decades of, um, corporate career at that point in time, significant amount of experience. I have an MBA. I work at senior level, but yet deep down in my soul there was a gap, there was a missing gap, and I took three months to chill, to sleep, to give myself the permission to reflect and discover more of who I am. The true Jocelyn that was so far away because I was so immersed in the world of working and chasing after the next big role. And, you know, running things and being busy was the way of life. But I needed to pull back and calm my nerves and really rest. And that was when I received my true understanding of there was something more that I need to close that gap, and I need to bring alignment in my internal world and my external world. That work took months, took years, and still working on it because, you know, inner work is something that we continue to do. We continue to improve. We continue to grow.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:05] It's absolutely a daily, it's a daily test and a daily agenda item for me, for sure. So that daily inner work and mindset work, it is so important. To make sure that you're literally pulling the weeds out of your mind and not letting them take root. Exactly.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:13:29] Exactly. And so I invest that time working through it. But also I had this desire that I wanted to set up my own consulting practice. I thought that I would buy a book and set up my own financial planning practice, and I explored that opportunity, but didn't feel that that was aligned with my soul's calling. And 2021, I decided to set up my own consulting practice, and that was how I work for myself now today, and partner with a lot of like-minded professionals. And that's a short version of my story over the last, you know, 12, 15 minutes or so.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:13] That is a wonderful version of your story. And so let's talk about your business itself, and let's talk about what you do and how you work with clients. I framed it up at the beginning of our discussion, but I would really love to hear your version of how you're working with clients.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:14:31] Absolutely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:32] I characterized it as money mindset, sales leadership, and business development, and I'm aware of some work that you do in communications with clients. But please tell our listeners what you do in your business with Seed to Sequoia.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:14:52] Yes. So I focus on leadership, sales, and mindset. I found that the sales part was a core component of majority of my career, and I love sales. I have never seen sales any different apart from serving someone else, and that I can help them achieve their highest level of results. So I see sales from that perspective, and I was very privileged to work alongside a lot of people who see sales from a very positive perspective. But I also come across a lot of people who had bad experiences or never understood the true meaning of sales. And so my role today is to coach them, support them, help them understand that sales is really just helping someone get a better result. And leadership was--

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:46] Absolutely.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:15:47] -- what I focused on for decades of my life, I've always placed in a position of leadership, whether it's a volunteering capacity at church or at school, sports club, you know, art club or Toastmasters, or in any different organization that was part of, you know, both paid and non-paid. And so I integrated both because leadership needs to come from within, and it needs to be something that you want to lead yourself first, then you can lead others. So self leadership is the foundation of what you want to do for you, that you can trust that that process works for you. Then it is the next step to serve others with your leadership skills. So I integrate that. And mindset is just very fundamental in everything that I do because it is our thoughts that creates our feelings, our feelings create our actions, and our actions create our results. And so I use that framework around how we can take control of our thoughts, because that is the one thing that we have, the power of choice and the power of control over ourselves. We can't be responsible about other people's, you know, actions or thoughts, but we can influence them. But what we can do for ourselves is really the area that we can control our thoughts and the intention that we can set up for ourselves. And so my practice focuses on that. And what sets my consulting practice apart from others is that, you know, I've got those unique experiences, and I integrate very practical, um, elements to my coaching component and my consulting component, because I want to bring that practicality to marry alongside with the concepts that I teach because I think it's the practical element, the human element, that people really engage and they get it. And so that is how my practice works.

Sara Sheehan: [00:17:53] Excellent. And so do you have any clients that are excellent case studies representing the results that you bring in working with a client that you could share with us?

Jocelyn Chong: [00:18:08] Absolutely. So let me share one of my clients who had 11 years in corporate finance. And what happened was in the last, last year, at the time where she stepped into the role, she knew roughly her three year plan. She knew roughly what her financial goals for her business were. And at the time, she was seated around about $38,000 in cash in her business account, she came to me, she note that there were certain gaps in her business that she needed support. And we did a full analysis. From that analysis, I then prioritize which area was really important for her to focus her time, her energy and her resources. And we did that work for over five months, and by the end of December, where we reviewed that before we head off away for holidays, she made $240,000.

Sara Sheehan: [00:19:16] Wow.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:19:16] Now how she did that? It was her willingness to be coachable. It was her willingness to test and learn different strategies that we put in place and refine them every single week, and she was very open to feedback, and we had focused on three simple things every single time, rather than focusing on so many things because you don't have the capacity and we can get distracted all the time. We focus on what she is really good in, and we narrowed down her niche market as well, so that she is very focused on just speaking to that profile of clients every single time she meets people at networking events, she goes to different industry functions. She connects with those clients in that category when she asks for an introduction.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:20:22] And so because she focused her time and energy and we actually monitor every week her progress and we talk about what she did really well, we celebrated every single progress and milestone. And then we talk about what's the 1 or 2 things that we could tweak and apply them differently the following week. And so those are really the small part. And then behind that and underneath that, we dealt with a lot of mindset areas that will come up with different scenarios and how to manage. You know, I call them high value energy and low value energy. And when she hits low value energy, what are the steps and the tools that she is equipped to take herself back to high value energy? And so we work through that. And now she's armed with tools. It's more of arming herself with tools and strategies so that she knows how to recognize it, and then how to apply which tool and strategy to take her out from those times where it's challenging, those times that she needs to push through the barriers, those times that she needs to overcome that obstacle. So those were the, you know, work that we did over the last five months plus. And that's a great, great testimonial. So yeah.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:47] That's a fantastic case study. Fantastic case study for sure. Absolutely fantastic. Did you have another one that might be different in what the client's struggle was, but one that really shows results through coaching?

Jocelyn Chong: [00:22:09] Yeah. So let me give you another lady. And this is quite a good one because this lady is a very ambitiousness. So she works with infectious disease, so infectious disease throughout Covid, Covid is one of those categories. And she wanted to be a lecturer, so she did her Master's. She worked in a very intense medical environment in the Covid space, and we had coaching around how she can transition herself to be a lecturer. So within four months, she managed to secure a job and to onboard herself with a new role, with a new identity. Because working in the medical field is very different than teaching, it's a very different skill set, where--

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:06] For sure.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:23:07] -- her gap was actually speaking to crowds because she was very nervous. She's got all the knowledge, but the words, the information coming through was quite challenging because she did not articulate that. And also she came from another country, so English was not her first language. And when you educate, you know, students that come from different cultural backgrounds and how you, you know, communicate and how you calm the class, I remembered couple of challenges was how to help her students work alongside with each other, and how to address behaviors that are destructive in her classroom. She also needed to really practice her speaking skills with me, so that it's not the first time that she delivered a presentation in an event or a class. So we did a lot of--

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:07] That's amazing. Yeah.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:24:09] -- role play. We did a lot of presentations so that she had a lot of fallback and she could get feedback from me, and we could really massage the way she showed up, the way she presented, and the way she also use her body. I mean did you know that, you know, 93% of communication is nonverbal, which means, you know, for her to know how to use her body to communicate as well, not just the words. And so she would have all this written, you know, presentations, but is to help her speak and navigate through the class and help her students, you know, collaborate with her and engage with her, participate in the classroom, so that everyone is getting value and optimized, you know, the time in the classrooms for different experiments as well. So it was all these little areas, but the part that stood out for her was she was able to speak to someone like me, that she can practice and feel comfortable so that when she show up to her group, she already built that muscle of confidence. And I think as a coach, as a mentor, as a guide, that was, you know, something that made a huge difference for her because I was able to just give her that understanding, coming from my own experience, coming from my own background, having, you know, so much fear and nervousness and afraid of how people would judge me when I'm speaking in English wasn't my first language, coming into Australia, I was able to share those learnings with her, how I overcome those fears and all the limiting thoughts. And that's significantly helped her so much. And she enjoyed her job. She got a lot of praise report from her students by the end of the semester, and they gave her more subjects to cover the following semester.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:12] Interesting. That's a great case study. And a great success story at that. Are there any programs that you're currently about to launch where you're in the planning phase? And seeking, for instance, participants for a cohort?

Jocelyn Chong: [00:26:33] Yes. If you go to my website, there will always be something that's coming up the following month. So you can, you know, follow up with what's coming up. And joining my email list allows you to get a lot of helpful and useful tips as well, because my intention for sharing through email is to share 1 or 2 things that I have learned, my stories, my lessons, my mistakes, and that, you know, my audience can collapse time and learn from me so that you do not have to make those mistakes. And I have done the work. I've done the research for 40 years, so you can learn and get that insight. So that's a couple of avenues that you can tap into, free resources that I have created. And there are paid programs that I offer as well. So plenty that you can explore as someone who wants to check out, you know, my work in Australia.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:15] Outstanding, Jocelyn. And so one thing that I've always known about you is that you always seem to be writing or speaking, and I was just wondering what you might be working on right now. I've known you to participate in many multi-author books and writing lots of articles, but what are you up to right now that's interesting and exciting?

Jocelyn Chong: [00:28:43] My year of 2024 is to really immerse myself in actually experimenting a lot of AI resources. So that's my focus this year in one of my business vision boards. And yesterday I was speaking in one of, one of the events that held every quarter, and we were talking about Pivot and Prosper for 2024. So I'm always passionate about how we can pivot to the next level. There's, you know, this saying that I've always, always repeat to my audience is that, you know, don't work any harder, that you're not getting the results that you're looking for, but work smarter. What are the ways that you can work smarter in order to get easier and better results? Because working harder can get you tired, exhausted, frustrated, disappointed. And so what are the ways that you can renew your mind? Either, you know, join a conference, you know, listen to a podcast, go out and meet people that you've never met before. And most recently, in the last two months, I had taken the time to actually remove myself, number one, from a lot of Facebook groups that I thought wasn't in alignment with where I want to move forward in 2024.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:30:11] The second thing was I also cleaned up my LinkedIn connections. You know, there were connections I connected for many years, but there was nothing there. And we were moving in different directions. So I also removed them. Likewise for Facebook as well, so that I can welcome and create space for new opportunities, you know, new people to come into my environment because for me, I genuinely want to create and build connections with people that we could be long, creating long and lasting friendships and supporting each other throughout the journey. And it's okay to, you know, separate yourself from people who may not want to come on a journey because it's okay. You know, there's different people that comes across, you know, our path at different seasons, different times of our lives. So I always see that, you know, if I could only have, you know, a couple of thousand people on my Facebook group, I want to make sure that whatever content that I put out there is going to be a blessing for them.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:14] Absolutely.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:31:15] I like to always think when I do this in my morning ritual, and I pray and like God, you know, may my content today serves as an answered prayer for someone's prayer.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:26] There you go, I love that. Let's be, let our content be a blessing to others in every way.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:31:32] Yes. So, yeah.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:36] Excellent.

Jocelyn Chong: [00:31:36] I hope that, you know, our audience are inspired one way or another because, you know, we have to pivot. We have to find new ways of doing things better and faster and be so open to explore them.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:51] Absolutely. And so, Jocelyn, can you give input or guidance on how our listeners can find you? What's the best way for them to find you? Is it through your LinkedIn profile? Is it through your website by chance?

Jocelyn Chong: [00:32:07] Absolutely. Linkedin is a great way to find me. Um, it's Jocelyn Chong, so I can get the LinkedIn link on the show notes as well because I'm active there. And if you send me a note and say, you know what, Transformational Thinkers podcast, I know that you've listened to that podcast and let's get connected because I want to support you in any way I can, whether I can share resource, make a recommendation, introduce you to people in my network. And so let's build that. Let's build that kind of collaboration with Sara and, of course, you, my listeners for this episode.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:53] Excellent. Well, Jocelyn, I can't thank you enough for taking time out of your busy schedule to come on to my podcast and share your message. I know there are a ton of people out there that need to improve their business results in selling and work on their mindset on a daily basis. There are truly an unlimited number of clients out there that need to know you, and I feel very strongly about that. So I really appreciate your time today.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:56] Thank you so much for tuning in to Episode Nine, Achieving Your Business Potential with Jocelyn Chong. The three takeaways from today's session include, One) Recognizing your pivot moments. Embrace the points in your career that call for self-reflection and change. Number two) Bridge the gap. Align personal growth with professional development for holistic success. And three) Connect and collaborate. Expand your network intentionally and join me and Jocelyn in our mission to transform lives. I hope you found the conversation in this episode enlightening, and I hope that you take on a growth mindset in your own career and life. As always, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify so you never miss an episode.

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Content Warning: Sexual assault

Sara Sheehan is joined by Alicia Cramer, author and entrepreneur, to talk about Alicia’s book, “Energetic Alignment” and the mindset work she helps clients master. The thoughts and traumas that hold us back can be overcome through aligning our mindset with positive beliefs. Alicia explains the tools she uses to assist in that transformation.

Alicia shares the traumatic experiences that shaped her early life and which led to her own radical mindset shift. She began a healing journey that led her into training in EFT, hypnotherapy, psychology, and metaphysical science. It is through all these modalities, which she calls tools, that she assists others in finding their own healing pathway, reprogramming their minds to let go of their fears and internal resistance.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan and Alicia Cramer discuss Alicia’s life-changing mindset mastery, her innovative Inner Game Academy, the nexus point of alignment, and the insights found in her book “Energetic Alignment”. The modalities that she employs are useful for team members, entrepreneurs, CEOs, and business owners who find themselves bumping up against struggles like money mindset issues, lack of confidence, interpersonal relationship difficulties, and any other internal blockages keeping us from our best lives.

About Alicia Cramer

Alicia Cramer is business mindset expert, certified hypnotherapist, metaphysical practitioner, international best selling author, and a sales and marketing consultant with an extensive business development background.

Her passion for empowering others was evident at a very young age, as was her desire to be an entrepreneur. Her own struggles with depression and self-worth issues eventually led to research and application of various mental conditioning techniques in conjunction with understanding Universal Principles (aka Universal Laws) and strategies for success.

Alicia attended college for marketing at the age of 18, and started her first business – an eCommerce store, at 22. That took her deeper into the field of online marketing where she dabbled off and on for years. Her journey was full of twists and turns, but her desire for entrepreneurship and the birth of her first child at the age of 28 cultivated her motivation to take business more seriously.

In 2010 she opened a local hypnotherapy practice in WI, which evolved into a business coaching practice, specializing in what she calls “mindset reconditioning”. Her desire to create a lifestyle that aligned with her passion for helping other business owners thrive, while enjoying the freedom to travel, invest time in her other entrepreneurial ventures, and spend time with her family, caused her to transition away from a brick-and-mortar business model to virtual sessions with clients which allowed her to expand internationally.

Fast forward to today, Alicia has two incredible children whom she adores, and lives with her family in sunny AZ. She works one-on-one with entrepreneurs and high achieving individuals to overcome blocks to success in business and life, and offers various trainings and programs to help business owners achieve their goals.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Alicia Cramer website
• “Energetic Alignment” by Alicia Cramer
• Inner Game Academy
• Alicia Cramer on LinkedIn
• Alicia Cramer on YouTube
• Schedule a Consultation with Alicia

—

Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:03] Hi there. My name is Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking with my friend Alicia Cramer about mastering your mindset. Alicia is a beautiful example of her own work in mastering her own mindset and helps others do the same so that they can make the next big leap in their business and personal lives. If you would like to learn more after listening to today's discussion, please check out the show notes for a link to book a meeting with me or Alicia. And with that, Alicia, I am so very glad to have you here today. So excited to talk about your work, which I think is not only yeoman's work, it is truly deep and transformational at a cellular quantum level. And so I can't wait to dig in. Tell me a little bit, Alicia, about your backstory and what led you to start your business.

Alicia Cramer: [00:01:20] It's a big story. So I'm going to try to give the highlight reel, which is not necessarily all of the successes, right? It is going to include the hard knocks that got me on this path. And so if we go all the way back to the beginning, I grew up on a dairy farm in central Wisconsin. My parents were the quintessential hard workers, literally. Getting up early in the morning, pretty much working until late at night. That's the life of a dairy farmer. You don't get a day off. It's seven days a week. There are no vacations. There's no days off. And, um, you know, part of that was a blessing because I sure did get some work ethic indoctrinated into me at a very young age. But I also watch a tremendous amount of inner struggle. There would be violent fights when they would drink, fights about money, and there was so much stress and a lot of negativity and it ended up becoming a pretty deep, deep psychological wound. I went into a pretty deep depression at a young age, started drinking because that was what you did. Self-medicating with alcohol, that was, if you were angry, you partied. That was just the way it was. And as a young woman about - well, at 17, I basically was like, okay, I'm out of here. And by 18 I was like, okay, that's it. I'm going to create this great life for myself. I'm going to start a business and I'm going to be successful and live happily ever after. Well, that's not what happened. My conditioning was completely contradictory to that goal. You know, I had scarcity, struggle, hardship, self-confidence issues, self esteem issues, all working against me. But there was this growing desire to be a business owner. When I was in my early 20s, I was about 21 years old, I started an Internet based business. It was an e-commerce business and my desire was big, but my own inner alignment was completely off and I ended up filing bankruptcy on that business.

Sara Sheehan: [00:04:08] I'm sure that was really painful.

Alicia Cramer: [00:04:10] It was incredibly painful, especially for someone who already was struggling with a lot of self-esteem and self-worth issues. And I was really struggling a lot with, like, suicidal thoughts and feelings. And it was incredibly devastating. Fast forward the dream never went away, but I did stumble through life, you know, just like everybody else. And in 2005, I was out with some girlfriends. When I came to, I had been physically and sexually assaulted, found out that it was some type of, you know, pill or something that was put in my drink. And it was somebody that I knew, wasn't close to, but it shook me to my core. And in retrospect, because, of course, when you're going through it -

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:06] That's horrible.

Alicia Cramer: [00:05:07] When you're going through it, it just doesn't make any sense. You know, in retrospect I can say it was one of the best things that ever happened to me because it knocked me so far down that my only two options were, you know, really, really bad or somehow I had to change myself. I had to change my life. And that was the beginning of a very, very, very deep healing journey. The most beautiful thing that came out of it was obviously my transformation, but it also awoken within me this desire to help other people. And so that was me, now, kind of the new version of the entrepreneur, because now I wasn't just doing a business to make money. Now I was doing a business because I wanted to help people. And there was this overlap between my desire to say, Hey, if I can fix me, trust me, you can fix you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:11] And that's a super powerful message. It really is. It's undeniable.

Alicia Cramer: [00:06:15] It's so true. It doesn't matter where we've come from. It doesn't matter how bad our life was, how messed up our parents made us, how many really painful experiences we've had, every single one of us has within us the potential to reinvent ourselves, to recreate ourselves, to heal, to release, to let go, to reach for those dreams, and to make them a reality. The part that nobody ever wants to talk about is that there is no magic wand. There is no magic bullet. There is no one technique that is going to completely transform you overnight. It is a process. And we have all of these years worth of layers of negative conditioning and painful experiences that really get deeply anchored into our subconscious and just the fabric of our beingness. And those things have to be healed in order for us to be the confident, assertive, success minded individual that is going to allow for us to take the actions in our life and go for our dreams and to actually make it happen. So that was really the birth of what has become this business, and that was way back in 2005. It's obviously undergone a tremendous amount of its own growth and evolution as I've continued to uplevel myself. But that really was the beginning of what became an international business, helping a lot of people overcome some pretty heavy stuff and to create some pretty amazing lives.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:06] That is a wonderful, wonderful story and I can't wait to learn more in our discussion today, even more about the how you actually go about doing that, helping people to address their mindset. Tell me a little bit about your services and offerings within your business and how you actually work with clients one on one.

Alicia Cramer: [00:08:34] So I mentioned that that business was born, it was actually born in 2006. That was when I had my first paying EFT client. EFT a lot of people know of today, it's referred to as tapping. It's known as, its technical name is emotional freedom techniques. A lot of people call it emotional freedom technique. That was one of the, one of the modalities that I used that really helped me to heal a lot of stuff. That ended up evolving later in 2009, I started going through my hypnotherapy training through the Hypnosis Motivation Institute. They're a nationally accredited college of hypnotherapy. I became a certified hypnotherapist and I opened my brick and mortar hypnotherapy practice. I worked with my first paying client in, hypnotherapy client, in 2010. Now, the reason that I'm sharing it this way is because there's all modalities that I still use to this day. Um, but at that same time, I also was going back to school for psychology and also getting training in NLP, and I have my master's degree in metaphysical science. All of these things - understanding energy, energy work, a lot of different quantum healing processes, using a variety of different modalities - all became this sort of toolbox. And so I refer to modalities as tools.

Alicia Cramer: [00:10:15] It's like if you want a contractor, you're not calling somebody and saying, Hey, do you have a hammer? I'm looking for somebody with a hammer.

Sara Sheehan: [00:10:22] That's right.

Alicia Cramer: [00:10:23] Right? You want somebody who has every tool that they need in order to get the job done as efficiently, effectively, successfully as possible. So typically, the work that I primarily focus on in terms of one on one is an incredibly interactive process where my clients have a safe space, where they can actually be honest about what their challenges are, and we shift them with whatever tool is going to be most relevant to get the results. And oftentimes that's going to include a mix of different tools. And of course I do group work as well. Sometimes I'll do group training programs. Some people will actually ask me to come and work with their group, so their mastermind, their inner circle, and they'll bring me in to work on the mindset stuff that is tripping up their people. So your real estate investment trainer, well, there's a lot of mindset stuff that's tripping people up: money mindset issues, confidence issues, all the stuff, right? So a lot of people will bring me in and say, okay, I've got this group, they're incredible people. They've got all these dreams, all these goals, all these aspirations, and these are the ways that they're bumping up against their own internal resistance, their fears, their doubts, their insecurities. And then we get in there and we start to actually clean that stuff up and reprograming the mind with all of those processes like NLP and hypnosis and visualization and teaching different mindset processes that actually help people get their inner game on point with their goals.

Alicia Cramer: [00:12:13] And then I also have my Inner Game Academy, which I think we'll probably talk about later, which is my membership program, which is a huge digital vault full of mindset reconditioning, audios and videos. It's trainings, it is tons of hypnosis audios, and all of the most common stuff that people are bumping up against - confidence issues, money mindset issues, fear of public speaking, fear of cold calling, you name it it's pretty much in there. And then, of course, my members also have the luxury of saying, Hey, I've got this challenge and I don't see anything that addresses that and I create new content to put inside of the academy. So everyone is getting what they need to help them continue to up level.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:01] That's fantastic. And so, Alicia, if you were to characterize who your ideal client is, how would you paint that picture?

Alicia Cramer: [00:13:11] When it comes to working with private one on one clients it is a little bit different than the people that will, you know, potentially come in through a group setting or into my inner game academy. On a general level, I'm helping business owners across the board, everything from solopreneurs and start-ups, all the way to CEO founders of multi-million dollar companies, in many cases, companies they built from nothing, built from scratch. My private clients do tend to be oftentimes somewhat more established business owners and their up-leveling, they recognize I'm getting in my own way, I have this, you know, this painful memory from the past. Financial trauma is a huge one. I'm always pretty much, no matter what the client is coming for, it doesn't matter if it is, sometimes it's a relationship issue, you know, sometimes it is something that they're ashamed of. Sometimes it's a body issue. It would seem like it's not related to business, but I'm always working predominantly with business owners on everything from the most intimate details of their life to their specific financial goals. And we're cleaning up all of the challenges that are getting in their way. So the best way that I could explain who my ideal client or customer is, it is a heart centered, oftentimes spiritually oriented, individual who knows in their heart that they are destined to create a beautiful life and business for themselves. They know that there is stuff that they have to let go of. They have to shift in order to evolve to that next level of themself.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:01] That is very well said. I think it's a wonderful way to attract even more great clients to you. As you know, I have recently read your book, "Energetic Alignment", and I have a few questions for you that I would love to ask you about your book, if that's okay.

Alicia Cramer: [00:15:23] Of course.

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:25] Excellent. And so when readers dive into your book, they are introduced to you as a person and you really frame up a method in the book that you call the align method. Can you talk us through that method at a high level so that listeners might get a sense of what you're sharing in the book a little bit more?

Alicia Cramer: [00:15:54] Absolutely. So one of the things that I found over the many years that I've been working with clients, is that there is a process that we go through on our - I mean, from everything from the most simple basic decisions that we're making in our lives to the big goals that we have. And what a lot of people don't realize is that you have the power, you have the ability within yourself to reframe, to actually grab a hold of your limiting beliefs, once you learn how to identify them and to release them, to shift them, to shift into a more empowering perspective on that subject, which gives you now the ability to grab a hold of your goals and actually align yourself mentally, emotionally, vibrationally and spiritually with them. We are going through our life feeling negative emotions being triggered by this thing, that thing, that person, that thought that fluttered through our mind. And most people do not realize that if you can grab a hold of that opportunity, you can say, Oh, that doesn't feel good right there. I'm looking at my calendar for this week and it's not as full as I want it to be. And I'm feeling the fear coming up, that same old fear that I always feel. And now the negative emotions start to flow and all of the corresponding thoughts that I've always thought over and over and over, that are actually negatively reinforcing the pattern. Thoughts like, This is hopeless. Nothing's ever working. No matter how much I try it just can't ever seem to get it right. That coach, that guru was supposed to help me. It didn't work. That advertisement was supposed to be the game changer. That didn't work. Now what's happening? You're actually reinforcing all of that negativity. You're reinforcing the negative program. When you recognize there's that negative feeling again, that's your opportunity to finally grab a hold of it and create a shift because you are never going to create a different pattern in your life until you release the negative emotional charge on that old pattern so that you can finally replace it with something more empowering that is going to give you that leverage, that power, that positive push forward in a new direction towards the achievement of a different reality for yourself. So in the book, I'm basically teaching you, I'm walking you through, This is what happens when you feel that you've got to remember that's just energy. We've got to release that and let that go. Because once you remove the negative emotional charge off of a memory, an association, a belief, well, now it no longer has the ability to pull you down.

Alicia Cramer: [00:19:17] We've all had the experience where once upon a time there was something that highly triggered you. Maybe somebody said something that hurt your feelings and oh, my God, did it just bother you so much you couldn't even think about anything else. You were consumed, obsessed, and a natural process will oftentimes occur. Some thing, maybe your mind starts to just release a little bit of that tension, a little bit of the stress, a little bit of the negativity, and you start to actually naturally release some of that energy and then your mind starts to be able to grab ahold of, well, you know, maybe they were just having a bad day. Oh, you know what? I think I actually overreacted because it reminded me of how my mom used to make me feel. Right? Well, now you're showing your mind that what you were just reacting to is somewhat irrational. It's not serving you. And that helps you to actually release more energy and let that go. So it's a natural process that we go through. And eventually you get to a place where you release enough of that negative energy where now you can kind of take a different, have a different perspective on it and a week later, you can think about it and it no longer triggers you. Now, everybody also has the experience where they can think about something that happened five, ten, twenty years ago and it'll still trigger them because they never went through that process and then release it. So now they think about that person, bam, they get hit with all those old negative emotions that are still stored up in the subconscious mind, in the etheric body. And so in order to correct that, you have to be mindful, you have to say, okay, we've got to go through this process. I've got to take myself through this process so I can release this negative energy. I need to set myself free. And that is essentially, in a nutshell, what I walk everyone through in the book is recognizing you have the power. You don't need a guru, you don't need a coach, you don't need a hypnotherapist. You can do it yourself on a day to day, moment to moment basis. Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't a time and a place for help, but our personal empowerment, that's what we're alive for. We always want to be giving our power away to somebody else.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:44] It's an amazing thing to think about. I can interrupt the process and I can change my relationship with it forever if I want.

Alicia Cramer: [00:21:56] Absolutely.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:57] That is amazing.

Alicia Cramer: [00:21:58] Absolutely. And it's, once you learn it, it still requires self-discipline to actually implement it, because we do have a tendency once we get triggered, that's all subconscious, we just default to the negative reaction. But as you're practicing this, just like anything else, the more aware you become of when you're getting triggered and the easier it becomes to work yourself through that process. And of course, then on the other side of that, we're also working on, well, let's put in that positive programming. Let's reinforce what is your goal, what is your dream? And there are ways that the mind works that really anchor in and allow us to get to a level of unwavering belief in ourselves, in our goal, in our vision, in our dream. And when we believe in something, when we expect it, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. So we want to use that positive side to our advantage. So we clean up the negative, we embrace the positive, and we're consistently working on being an intentional, empowered creator in our life.

Sara Sheehan: [00:23:13] That is so empowering. And so tell me what is so compelling about reaching the Nexus point?

Alicia Cramer: [00:23:26] The Nexus point is where you're in your alignment the majority of the time. A lot of us spend way more time than we should out of alignment. Out of alignment is all of that triggered stuff. Anything - and I talk about the vibrational emotional spectrum, which is taught really well by Dr. David Hawkins, Esther Hicks also oftentimes referred to as Abraham Hicks. There are a lot of people who have done their own rendition of that vibrational spectrum, understanding that when you're on any of that lower end of the vibrational spectrum, you can feel it as any type of negative emotion. And when you are in that state, you're not thinking clearly, you're not in any type of empowered state to take positive, empowered action in your life. And from a metaphysical perspective, because this is a law-based universe and everything vibrates and the law of attraction is a real thing, historically, it's been referred to as the law of vibration. Some people refer to it in other ways, but essentially what we know and what our more modern physics has taught us is that in this vibrational universe, this vibrational reality that we're living, whatever emotion you're in, whatever thoughts you're thinking and their corresponding emotion, that has a vibrational frequency.

Alicia Cramer: [00:25:01] So if I'm feeling stressed vibrationally in this law-based universe, what am I going to perpetuate? More thoughts, more feelings, more circumstances that all are that vibrational match to the stress. You cannot create a joyful, wonderful, successful life from being in any of those lower vibrational states. So we have to work up into those higher emotional vibrational states where you feel peace or joy or love or passion or excitement. Gratitude. Because now what are you drawing in your thoughts and feelings and experiences that match that. And that's when life really starts to feel magical. That's when the deals happen more easily. The clients just seem to find you somehow. The money is flowing so much more freely, all of the goals start to just feel like you're divinely supported because you are. And it's not that you weren't before, it's just that you can only, the universe can only line things up that are a vibrational match to the vibration that you are predominantly emanating. And so that nexus point really is about starting to master your mind, master your emotions, so that you become that intentional, empowered creator in your life.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:28] That is so powerful and, I mean, it makes me, a feeling of great positivity and empowerment just wells in my heart hearing you talk about it because being in alignment for me is akin to being in my zone of genius, meaning I am doing what I was designed to do and I'm able to actually live out my purpose freely. And so I'm a huge supporter of your work and how you're helping clients remove all of those mindset barriers. It's tremendous. I definitely want to be living in alignment. Definitely.

Alicia Cramer: [00:27:15] We all do.

Sara Sheehan: [00:27:16] Absolutely.

Alicia Cramer: [00:27:16] Contrary to what anyone might say, they think that hustling and grinding and pushing and fighting their way to the top is some type of virtuous thing. But at the end of the day, those are the ones who are struggling in their relationships. They're struggling with their health. And the truth is money cannot buy you out of negativity. It cannot. And so no matter what your goal is, your mind is telling you, oh, I'll be happy when I have the house, the car, the money, the this or that. But when you are living in that predominant state of negativity, scrapping your way to the top, stepping on your competition, struggling through your resistance, you can manifest the money, the car, the house, the partner, whatever, but you're going to feel just as shitty after you have it, as you did the whole time that you were creating it. And that is not the reason you want it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:30] It's definitely not.

Alicia Cramer: [00:28:31] You don't want to have it just for the sake of having it. You don't.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:33] It's definitely not, it's definitely not my heart's desire. My heart's desire is for ease and joy in my life. So that's where my heart is. So let's transition a little bit and talk about the Inner Game Academy a little bit more. In the book, you offer readers a free trial for two months, which I think is amazing, and they have an opportunity to explore and understand all of the resources that are there. Talk a little bit about the Inner Game Academy. What led you to create it and what users can find there.

Alicia Cramer: [00:29:19] So the Inner Game Academy is my best attempt at providing people with as many different resources as possible to help them shift whatever they're bumping up against. And knowing what I know from all of my years of working with clients and having so many business colleagues coming at it from all sides of business, even as a consultant on the marketing business development side, and obviously very much so on the mindset side, I wanted to create something that really supported people through all of the different challenges that they're bumping up against because most people don't just have one challenge. Sometimes it feels like one is the biggest issue. But if we're all really honest with ourselves, in many cases there are a lot of areas where we're experiencing self-confidence issues, self-doubt, various different types of fear and it can be pretty expensive to buy courses. Even hypnosis audios, go rummaging even through the Internet trying to find this or that from this expert and that expert. So I wanted to create a place where people could go and they could be like, okay, I am triggered right now, I have this really amazing opportunity to come up and I am terrified of speaking in front of those people. Just the thought of it makes me feel like I'm going to vomit, right? They go inside the Inner Game Academy and they look for, oh, here's a, you know, an EFT session that I can do on that. Here's a hypnosis audio I could listen to on that. So it is growing. Like I mentioned before, when somebody says, Hey, you know, Alicia, I've got this challenge. You know, can you create something to help me through this? Then I'm doing it in a way that allows every member to be completely anonymous. Nobody knows that you're in there. Nobody knows you're a member. I found that having worked with a lot of high level business owners for many years, in many cases, the higher someone's status becomes and sometimes it's a personality thing as well, because some people are like, Oh yeah, I work with her, I love it. She's the best, you know, sending me tons of referrals and other people is like kind of ashamed that I've got these issues. And so it's a little bit more hush hush. Well, I want to create a safe space for everyone, no matter whether you are very outgoing and open about your challenges or you are much more private because maybe you have to work through a little bit of shame or guilt or discomfort, or you don't want your colleagues to know or whatever it is. So members just join. They have access to all of those resources. If they need additional materials, they can email it over to us. So nobody else knows, you know, who requested it. I create it. It's, it doesn't say anybody's name. It's not like John requested that we create this, right? And then I send John Smith a little message and I say, John, I entered it in, you know, put it into the Academy for you. And then it's in there. And John and every other member of the Academy can listen to it and benefit from it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:32:43] That's outstanding. So ever changing and ever-growing, are there topics or types of experts that you would love to get connected to that may be able to add additional content to the Inner Game Academy?

Alicia Cramer: [00:33:00] Yes. So we already have a nice little section of expert-contributed content. My rule is that it must be truly helpful content. There's not going to be any pitch fests in there where, you know, somebody says, Oh, I'll give you this course that I did. And really it's just a glorified sales presentation. There are real trainings from real experts in every area of business. So anyone listening who is a subject matter expert in an area that caters to entrepreneurs, caters to business owners, if you would like to share some training that you have, doesn't matter really so much what it is, as long as it is truly helpful for business owners and it is really, truly valuable content. We put it inside of the Inner Game Academy. It has its own little separate home and the contributor, of course, is able to submit their bio, some information, and a link back to contact them. If the Academy member says, I need more of that, that person clearly is my expert. That's exactly what I need. We make it so easy for them to get home to that expert so that they can reach out to them and they can go further on whatever that particular subject is.

Alicia Cramer: [00:34:27] The beauty here, and we talked a little bit about that, is it's a win win win for everyone, for our members there, they have so many more resources available. Many times these are paid programs. These experts are charging for these things and they're gifting it to members of the Academy because it is a win for them as well. It is exposure to their ideal clients and customers. So someone says, I need a little bit of educating here on, you know, how to incorporate my company. Well, we've got a training video on that. That particular expert is providing that value to our members for no additional charge. And then you're going to have some people who are going to say, that's the person I want to do my books or that's the person that I want to do this, this, that or whatever for me. And so. I'm able to provide more value to my members. My members are able to get more value and our contributors are able to get exposure for the people who need them.

Sara Sheehan: [00:35:34] It's a powerful partnership. It really, really is. It's good for all concerned. I couldn't agree with that more. Can you provide 1 or 2 client success stories where you're able to characterize who your client was in a safe way, protecting their identity, and sharing a little bit about their journey to success.

Alicia Cramer: [00:36:03] Sure. Let me think of some that would be really relevant to this particular conversation. I'll start with, I'll refer to him by his initials, RR. Um, he came to me quite a few years ago and stayed with me for many, many years. He originally came to me because he had some trauma around a pretty substantial financial issue, and he knew it was not only adversely affecting him mentally and emotionally, but literally was like triggering fear. So when it came to thinking about the bank and he is, you know, a large organization, so he's working with the bank regularly because they're making large purchases on a regular basis. Not the kind of problem you want to have when you're frequently dealing with that as a critical component in your business. So he reached out to me and he wanted to work on resolving the trauma he was feeling around that particular incident. And of course, we obviously worked on that and cleaned that up. And then he continued on working through pretty much anything and everything that was coming up, interpersonal relationship issues with employees, stuff that was coming up for him with regard to his own marriage, health related things, you know, whatever comes up.

Alicia Cramer: [00:37:39] And that is sort of the recurring theme. A lot of clients will come to me. They have one particular challenge that is really, really causing them a lot of mental and emotional distress. Sometimes it's a long-standing issue that they're just like, I can't deal with this anymore, something has to change. Sometimes it's a more acute thing where it's like, This just happened. It has thrown me completely off and I need to work through this because I can't. This is adversely affecting my business. It's adversely affecting my relationship with my spouse, with my children, whatever. And we work through that. And because the transformational is so liberating, anyone who's ever - and I'm sure everyone listening has had some micro versions of this, at very least - when you've been struggling with something that has been weighing on every part of your mind, body and soul, and you are liberated from that, it is the most awe-inspiring, beautiful, most gratitude enhancing thing.

Sara Sheehan: [00:38:52] It's wonderful. It is. It's wonderful to think of the bonds being released. I mean, it's just awesome.

Alicia Cramer: [00:39:00] And for a moment, you're able to see the higher truth that you're an infinite being full of potential, and that is just an illusion. And if that illusion can, if you can release that, what else is possible? And so then people are like, this is another area in my life where I've been holding myself back. Let's dig into that. And then this is another area of my life where I've been holding myself back. And let's dig into that. And the transformation becomes exponential because now not only are you actively shifting those things that were pain points for you, but you're starting to know within, like, the depth of your being that you don't have to be a victim of anything anymore. And it's so empowering and it creates more confidence. It creates more zest for life. People start actually thinking bigger again and they're achieving things. And, you know, it's so funny because a lot of my clients work with me for months or even years. And even though they keep having these incredible things happening to them, they still sometimes are a little bit taken back, like, Oh my God, can you believe that just happened? Oh yeah, of course I can believe that it just happened. Now you need to start believing more that this can happen more regularly.

Sara Sheehan: [00:40:26] Absolutely. I, I want to have an up, constant upward spiral in my life that's unobstructed. And so, yes.

Alicia Cramer: [00:40:38] One thing I will say, there will always be obstructions because we've got lots and lots and lots of old stuff conditioned into our subconscious mind that we have to let go of when we're up-levelling that old habit of feeling that way about yourself, or that old habit of feeling insecure around those people, or that old habit of something good happened and now I actually have to sort of retract a little bit because I'm not comfortable with that much good happening. We have to work through those things because that stuff is not a mental, emotional, vibrational match to that new level that we're being called up into. And that's why the work never ends. That's why there is no really truly like, you know, oh, I achieved enlightenment. And then, you know, you fly up into the, into the sky, never to return. We're just, we're all, you know, progressively releasing, up-levelling, bumping up against some stuff, releasing, up-levelling again, is just that as we're doing that doesn't mean that sometimes it doesn't knock us down and catch us off guard. But there is a knowingness, I've been through this before, I can do this again, I will get it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:42:00] That is, that's great. I love how you explained it as an ongoing process. You know, more than a staircase for certain. Maybe there are different landings and moments of reflection that are involved, but I can definitely see in my own progression that moments of reflection are definitely critical so that we are becoming aware of what we need to work on next. Super, super powerful stuff today. Alicia, how would you define success for yourself at this point?

Alicia Cramer: [00:42:39] That definition has changed. You know, we talked about the beginning of the entrepreneurial journey. Success was, you know, like a multi-million dollar business or something like that. You know, it was purely superficial stuff. Not that physical stuff isn't valuable, important, we're here, we're physical. We love physical stuff. Right? Physical stuff is good. But now success means so much more of that inner, that inner state. It is loving my life, loving my family, loving my home, appreciating all of the incredible things that I have created for myself. Not because they're just fancy, nice, shiny things, but because it's my preference. That beautiful car is because I like it, not because I'm trying to impress anybody. The money is fantastic, but to be doing what you love and to be in the state of abundance and to know that this is an infinitely abundant universe and that I can tune myself in to what my heart desires, that is success. That state of empowerment, that state of love, that state of when I am falling asleep at night, I can feel grateful. I have peace in my heart. I have peace in my mind. And yet I still have enthusiasm for what I can create yet. And it's not about I have to do this because I need some relief from that stress or that fear or that insecurity, it is, Alright, I know that sometimes there's going to be some bumps in the road, but for the most part, this is a pretty fun ride.

Sara Sheehan: [00:44:28] That's outstanding. That is so touching. And I thank you so much for sharing your beautiful definition of success. Is there a big goal or is there more than one big goal that you have in 2023?

Alicia Cramer: [00:44:50] A part of me feels called to a slight reinvention. Obviously, I love what I'm doing. I will always keep doing what I'm doing. There is a part of me that is excited about operating my own business more like I'm on a permanent vacation. So we just moved into a beautiful home. It was a goal location for me. I just told my husband the other day, I said, I've created almost everything that I've wanted. And of course, you know, there's always the little things and the expansion. But we want to do more travelling internationally as a family. We want to really just start to see the other side of life, not just the building and achieving goals side of life and doing meaningful work, which I love. But now it's a little bit more of let's play a little bit more, let's have a little bit more fun. Let's make the second half of my life so good, right? Because the first half of my life kind of was not, you know, it's a little bumpy, a little rocky, a little... And let's really make it count. I've had an amazing life. I have an amazing family. I'm so grateful, so blessed. And so now it's just a little bit more about let's keep doing this amazing work that is so incredibly fulfilling and let's just take that stance, that mindset shift of let's make it more play, more playful, more lighthearted, more fun. And so that is my big goal for this particular year, is let's make it light and fun and easy and joyful at a whole new level that it's never been before.

Sara Sheehan: [00:46:42] Wow. Creating fun memories. That's amazing. Not to mention deeper relationships when you're really not taking yourself too seriously or the people that you're with and just enjoying them. That's a beautiful thing. Well, thank you so much, Alicia, for joining me today and sharing some tremendous insight on the power of mastering your mindset. I truly believe that this is a pivotal thing for not only entrepreneurs, but leaders in business to take a really close look at. If you really want to understand how you can be more successful or increase your performance, you might want to take a look at mindset. If you're interested in exploring more and learning more about Alicia, please check out the show notes, her website, her LinkedIn profile, more information about the Inner Game Academy. It'll all be available in the show notes. Thanks so much, Alicia.

Alicia Cramer: [00:47:50] Thank you.

View Details

Sara Sheehan welcomes Psychological Health and Safety Advisor, and expert in hope, Lindsay Recknell to the show to talk about the vital topic of mental health training for corporate spaces. Mental health is absolutely fundamental to corporate wellness and Lindsay offers several methods of training corporations, employees, and business owners how to speak the language of mental health in their workspace.

Lindsay became a certified Psychological Health and Safety Advisor after a personal burnout and period of complete overwhelm. She realized that not every leader has the mental health skills necessary to tackle such conversations after the responses she received to her own crisis. She is on a mission to educate leaders on how to do the mental health and support work necessary for healthy employees and workspaces.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan learns about the corporate mental health training that Lindsay Recknell offers through her company, Paradigm Corporate Wellness. Lindsay explains not only her Mental Health Skill Training Certificate Program and her Language of Mental Health Digital Subscription, but details for Sara exactly who will benefit from this training and what the return on investment will be. Lindsay is an expert in hope and her desire to make a positive impact on the lives of others, to make mental health a priority in workplaces, and to support wellness in organizations is deep-rooted and informed by education and empathy.

About Lindsay Recknell

As an expert in hope and a Certified Psychological Health and Safety Advisor, Lindsay works with individuals and organizations to increase their levels of psychological health & safety in the workplace using Positive Psychology and the Science of Hope. She empowers individuals, strengthens teams and transforms organizations through her Mental Health Skills Training certificate program, Language of Mental Health digital subscription and wellness webinars. Lindsay lives in Calgary, Canada with her husband and their two Golden Retrievers.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Lindsay Recknell on LinkedIn
• Paradigm Corporate Wellness
• Lindsay’s Discovery Call scheduling link

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there. My name is Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today we are going to talk about the very compelling topic of the mental health crisis and how my guest, Lindsay Recknell and Paradigm Corporate Wellness seeks to change the game in the workplace. If you would like to learn more after listening to today's discussion, check out the show notes for contact information to meet with Lindsay or with me. We would love to hear from you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:47] Lindsay, I am so glad to have you on Transformational Thinkers today. Part of the reason that I expedited our discussion is because over the course of seven days, at the end of March, there were two shooting incidents in the Dallas Metro schools and of course, the terrible shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School in Dallas. I believe there was one young man that was shot and passed and another that was injured. And in Nashville, three adults passed, three precious children passed, and of course, the shooter passed as well. It's such an inflection point for us. This is a very sad and truly horrible tipping point. I believe in the need to focus on mental health and really address it head on as the physical, mental, emotional health condition that it truly is. So today, I'm super excited to be talking with you. I want to start with your bio and then we can dive in to some questions. A little bit about Lindsay Recknell as an expert in hope and a certified Psychological Health and Safety advisor, Lindsay works with individuals and organizations to increase their levels of psychological health and safety in the workplace using positive psychology and the science of hope. She empowers individuals, strengthens teams, and transforms organizations through her mental health skills training certificate program, language of mental health, digital subscription and her wellness webinars. Lindsay lives in Calgary, Canada, with her husband and two Golden Retrievers. And by the way, what are their names? Not only your dogs, but your spouse.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:03:01] They are called Squeak and Dennis.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:04] That's fantastic. Our loved ones, all of them, make a huge difference in our lives. And so, Lindsay, let's talk a little bit about your backstory first.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:03:15] Well, first off, thank you so much for having me. It is such a delight to hang out with you. I just have, I just have so enjoyed our relationship over the last however many years that we've been connected. I feel quite honored to be here with you. So thanks, Sara. I really appreciate it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:30] Absolutely. It's my pleasure.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:03:32] I got into this work from a very personal place back in 2018, the summer of 2018. I suffered from total, complete overwhelm and burnout. I was working too much, playing too hard. There was so much going on in my personal life and my professional life, and I found myself at a place of total, utter, complete exhaustion. And I was working for two consulting clients at the time. And I remember very distinctly I went to one of my consulting clients and said, Here's what's happening, here's what's going on for me. And they said, Sorry to hear that, not my problem, please get back to work, in not so many words. And then I went to my other consulting client and they said, Sorry to hear that. How can I help? What do you need? How can we best support you? Clearly we all want second leader's response. But in first leader's defense, they really hadn't been taught how to navigate these kinds of situations, right? I believe that generation, the generational gap has a huge impact on how we're dealing with mental health at work. And, you know, in their defense, they just they didn't learn that in their leadership and management training. However, as humans, especially leaders in our environment right now, we want to be better and we want to come along to this party where we can integrate work in life, where we can meet our team where they're at and really support them in the best way. And so there is definitely a responsibility and an accountability for all of us leaders to learn that, whether it's on our own or, you know, coming to my certificate program. But that's where I really identified that there was this gap. And so now I'm on a mission to close that gap and educate leaders on how to do this work, not only because we know we need to, but also because I think we get to there is so much research and evidence to support the ROI of doing this work. The productivity increases and the collective wellness and health of our organizations, and truly of our community of humanity, when we when we have these skills.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:40] So it sounds like it was a true personal reckoning for you. Fantastic.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:05:45] Yeah, it absolutely was. I have an IT, finance and project management background. That's what I did before doing this work and people sort of look at that and think that's quite the career progression. But if you think about the stress involved in being an accountant and working in technology you know, it's a natural progression.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:05] Well, let's ground this in your skills and expertise, Lindsay. You have a specific certification that absolutely is a door opener in the space in psychological health and safety. Talk a little bit about that for our listeners.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:06:24] Yeah, absolutely happy to. So it's a 21 hour course. It's made up of six modules and very intentionally structured. These modules are very intentionally structured. So if we think of the first two modules, they are literally about how to open the door to conversation about workplace, about mental health in the workplace, because often I feel like we want to engage, but we don't, we literally don't have the words or the language to know how to engage, what to say, what to ask, and then how to respond. If you say to to someone in your workplace, you know, I see your behavior has changed. Is there something going on? How can I help? Often we think, well, what if they say, Yeah, you know, I haven't been feeling myself today. Do we know how to respond? So the first two modules are about that, how to respond. There's a there's a whole bunch of scripts and actual, you know, questions that you can ask. And so it's very practical, very tangible, and it really helps to take away some of that awkwardness and help us to feel more comfortable when we find ourselves in those situations, because we absolutely do. And we will continue to find ourselves in situations like that. The middle two modules, modules three and four, are about the navigating the legal, ethical, moral considerations that we need to make as leaders in organizations because we're not experts in this space and nor do we expect you to be, you know, the same way we would never expect you to be a first responder, trained as a first responder to, you know, put a band aid on your child. The same deal is we would never expect you to be a psychologist or a mental health professional to feel confident that you can support people that you are dealing with, that you are managing, and still get them the help that they need. So we talk about all that critical thinking to be able to wrap the legalities, the ethics, the morals and your own policies and procedures and governance at your organization and how to make the best decisions based on all those factors. So that's module three and four, and then modules five and six take into consideration you, the human. How to help you show up as your best self and model that behavior out loud for other people so that they feel comfortable and like they have permission to also do that thing and take care of themselves. Because often as leaders, professionals, entrepreneurs, we forget that we are people too. And, you know, there's so many expectations on us as leaders to be there for other people and manage both up and down the corporate ladder, that we forget that we also don't have these skills and the permission to feel like we can take care of ourselves. So modules five and six are all about that piece and helping you to show up as your best self.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:10] Fantastic. And so you are seeking clients that are interested as individuals in joining an open cohort as well as organizations that would love to host you in a private cohort with only their employees. Is that correct?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:09:31] That is 100% correct. So we have open cohorts that we run every month. They are like I say, 21 hours of instruction. So we run them twice a week for three weeks in a row, typically on the open cohort, but then on the closed cohort, the private, if you want to throw, you know, all of your leaders into a room and train them all up at the same time, the content is the same, but the theory and application or the application will be super unique and special for your organization. It's all business case and group work based. And so if you want to do a group closed session, we will just make the business case and the group work really specific and tactical to solving some of the problems within your organization. And with that, that kind of program, we customize the date, the time, the, you know, the length of time that you're working with us. So we can absolutely customize it to your organization when you do a closed cohort. And the open is, you know, you get some peer support learning as well because you've got leaders from multiple organizations in that environment.

Sara Sheehan: [00:10:32] What would the experience for the participant be like? Like, let's say they start the course, it meets twice a week. Is there homework in between?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:10:46] Sadly, there is homework in between. It is super hands on. So I do not talk at you for 3.5 hours, twice a week for three weeks in a row. There's theory, obviously. I want to, I want to teach you the theory, but it is business case based. So we set up the business case at the beginning and then throughout the whole thing, we put you into the breakout rooms. It's a virtual live experience typically. So we put you into the breakout rooms and have you work on a specific question that relates to that business case. So it's so much application and a little bit of theory because if you can't, if you don't get a chance to actually use the tactics and really experience what it looks like, it's it's hard to maintain or retain that information. So it is very hands on application. And then for the homework, you know, it's a couple of hours in total over the whole time. We're not asking you to spend your whole, you know, every evening working on homework for this course. But it's taking some of the concepts and applying them in your actual organization. So whether it's reviewing your own policies and procedures for first person language or taking the psychological health and safety standard here in Canada and seeing where you want to, which areas you want to focus on next within your own organization. It's super practical and applicable and the homework is to apply some of the stuff within your own organization and then come back and talk to us about your experience.

Sara Sheehan: [00:12:20] Well, it sounds like this is very accessible, if you can complete the course within a three week period.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:12:27] And it qualifies for continuing education credits for so many professional designations. So if you are a SHERM professional, an HR professional, if you are a CPA, an engineer through APEGA, you have to do continuing education credits anyway to maintain your designation. And this program qualifies for those continuing education credits. I'm the only one that has a program like this, as far as I know, in North America. So it's definitely, you're going to get really unique training that is going to uplevel you in your own career. And here in Canada, it qualifies for the Canada jobs grant, which means that you can get up to two thirds of it paid for depending on which province you live in. And if there's something here in Canada, I suspect there's something at a lot of the State levels as well, as far as training grants out there.

Sara Sheehan: [00:13:19] That is fantastic. And so that means that almost every professional designation out there could qualify for what you're offering. So this is a super compelling opportunity for a lot of people that need 21 hours of continuing education. You could get it in a three week period and it's on an extremely compelling topic. One of the things I want to double click on a little bit, Lindsey, is that you actually obtained your own certification in psychological safety and health. Can you talk about that? Because clearly that experience has laid the foundation for what you're doing today in Paradigm Corporate Wellness.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:14:06] So I am a trained, certified psychological health and safety advisor, and I'm trained through the Canadian Mental Health Association. I mentioned the standard for psychological health and safety, which is a standard, a guideline, a framework that we use here in Canada. And there's something similar in the US, the ISO 9002, I think it is. So the standard is a framework for organizations to increase psychological safety in their workplace. And so my training is to help organizations implement some of these things. A big part of my training is identification of what we call the 13 psychosocial factors which contribute to workplace mental health. And they are things like workload balance, reward and recognition, leadership expectations, things like this. And there's 13 of them very specifically. And I'm trained to go into an organization and identify the levers we can pull to make the biggest impact along one of one or more of those psychological factors. Because if we can address and be specific on addressing some of these factors, that's where we're going to see the incremental and exponential growth in collective wellness in an organization. And that's the beauty of what the CMHA has taught me, is to really dial down on what is impacting workplace mental health, what is creating potentially toxic environments, why are people burning out, and have some real tactical strategies for solving some of those issues?

Sara Sheehan: [00:15:42] Fantastic. Can you talk a little bit about the return on investment for a company that decides they are going to put their investment in the right place? What could they get out of it?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:15:59] So there's a ton of research out there to back up the value of doing workplace mental health programing. One of the recent studies I saw suggested that for every dollar an organization invests in workplace mental health programing, they are going to earn $2.60 back. So 260% is a pretty big deal. I don't know how many investment programs that you have in organizations, lovely listeners, that get that kind of return. But the beauty of the last 5 or 10 years in this space is we are doing math differently to calculate those kinds of numbers. For sure it's an expense, but on the back end of that, there is a decrease in your benefit utilization rates because your workforce is healthier. And so they're not having to use their reactionary benefits so often. There is an increase in presenteeism, which is that idea of people being at their desk in mind, body and spirit and not just body. And so when you are proactive in supporting, creating a supportive environment for your folks, they are more present in the office, less as absenteeism. And when you create this environment where folks feel comfortable to speak up, to dissent, to bring their ideas and innovations and suggestions, I mean, just think that through. If you've got more people bringing innovative ideas to your organization that you implement, that logically translates into greater revenue generating opportunities, greater business opportunities and all sorts, you know, problem solving and all sorts of things, if you create that environment where people feel safe to to speak up without retribution. So the math, the science, the evidence, the research studies out there right now, it's pretty exciting to be in this industry right now, actually, and help to educate people because a lot of times I think it's just an awareness piece that we don't know how the research has changed and how the evidence has supported it, especially if you are someone like me five years ago who was the original skeptic and thought that anything to do with mental health was cosmic woo woo.

Sara Sheehan: [00:18:09] Well, I definitely believe the world needs Lindsay. And I believe that what you're bringing is something that can help every business be more competitive and more productive and truly a better place to work. So I am totally sold on what you're doing. Can you talk a little bit about what your offerings are like if you were to take a step back from a 10,000 foot level, Paradigm Corporate Wellness does all of these things.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:18:44] So I already mentioned the certificate training program, which is my number one program, especially for leaders and HR professionals. I also have a program called The Language of Mental Health, and that's my digital subscription. It is intended to help build language comprehension, the literal words that you can use to make connections with each other in your organization. It creates an opportunity for leaders to speak to their team members from a place of common understanding. It gives team members a place to start to open the door to really important conversations and the skills to know how to do that. It's a subscription on purpose. I don't believe that mental health is a one and done kind of deal. I think that we need to continue to have these kinds of conversations until it becomes just the way we speak around here. And so my clients will sign up for a year, typically a year, and I've got clients going on three years and I only started this three years ago. So they just keep re-upping on their subscription because they get a new topic, a new mental health related topic every month. I give you the presentations, the research, the discussion questions, the speakers notes, all of those things to be able to share this information with your organization and really, really meet you where you're at.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:20:06] So if you're thinking as a leader, Heaven help me, I have to come up with all this stuff myself and it's going to be so time consuming and I've already got X number of projects off the side of my desk. That's not this at all. This is absolutely like your whole tool kit to be able to have these conversations. So that's the language of mental health. I do masterclasses and virtual webinars for organizations who do, you know, who may may be at the start of their journey to creating mental health programing in their workplace. And so I will do one and done webinars and masterclasses for sure. So if that's where you're at, I'm here for that too. I don't do any one on one coaching. I have strategic partners that I work with that do that kind of work. I really want to make a bigger impact and help organizations make transformational change. But I do do some consulting in the turnover transformation space. So if you are experiencing a lot of turnover in your organization, I can guarantee you it's coming from a place of psychological safety. And so we'll do some strategy and consulting and some actual implementation of a plan to solve your turnover program through my turnover transformation.

Sara Sheehan: [00:21:18] That is a fantastic overview. That's super helpful. If you were to define who your ideal client is, who is that?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:21:28] So definitely leaders who get it, who understand the importance of doing this work, but probably just don't know how. The ones that feel uncomfortable or awkward about having conversations or going to their colleagues or their team members to say, How are you feeling today? If that feels awkward and uncomfortable, but you want to do it, you're my person. I definitely want to speak to you about that. If you are someone who even just is at that place where you need a check box in the workplace mental health box, because your shareholders are asking for it, your boss is asking for it, your employees are asking for it, I want to talk to you too. If you know how important this is, but you're just not sure how, let's talk about that. Typically, my organizations are medium to large organizations. I do some work with some select nonprofits, so if that's you, let's have a discussion about that. But this is not an inexpensive investment because it's worth it. And if you're going to get that $2.60 out of it, it's a million times worth it. But it's definitely for those medium to larger size organizations because that's where you're going to make the biggest impact.

Sara Sheehan: [00:22:46] And touch a whole lot of people. Who is a good referral partner for you? So someone that you can have in your network that you can talk to on a regular interval that might have suggestions and introductions for you to your ideal client.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:23:06] So definitely on the association's professional certification bodies perspective. So if you are on the board or a decision maker at the accounting association, the engineering association, those kinds of things, and are looking for revenue share partners to offer this as continuing education credits to your members, I definitely want to talk to you. And then consultants that are working in organization on any sort of transformation. So if you are building your business to sell and you're trying to create extra value to make your company more valuable at sale time, absolutely I want to talk to you. Because if you've got happy employees that you're selling to the new owner, the value is going to go up in your organization. So definitely, if you're an exit planner, if you are a OCM consultant, if you are a merger and acquisition consultant, I absolutely want to have a conversation with you as well.

Sara Sheehan: [00:24:02] Fantastic. Those are some great characteristics that we can think about, people that we know that might be helpful to you to get to your best client. I love the example that you shared about companies that are planning a sale. If they invest in their people, it's only going to make the acquiring company have a better value. I love that. That is a wonderful thing for us to think about. What is your definition of success, Lindsay?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:24:42] Such an excellent question. Personally, my definition of success is if I can leave an organization healthier than it was when I came in the door, that is ideal. And it, I just get, if I can just touch 1 or 2 people, if I hear feedback that says, you know, I felt comfortable to support my team member because they felt comfortable to come and talk to me, win! Like I'm in for that, I really want to have a positive impact on the most people possible. And if I can feel like collective wellness is happening and progressing in that direction, that's hugely successful for me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:25:27] And so, Lindsay, when I was listening to you talk about Paradigm Corporate Wellness offerings, I didn't hear you mention one of your newest offerings. And I want to make sure that we cover it today because I think this is super compelling. Can you talk with us about what's coming?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:25:52] Yeah, absolutely. I'm super excited about it. And it's related to that language of mental health digital subscription that I talked about. It's a franchise opportunity. So if you are someone who's working in corporate and you are tired of working for somebody else, but the idea of entrepreneurship and content creation and creating a business scares the bejesus out of you, then this is an opportunity for you. So I am creating a franchisee or yeah, a franchise opportunity where I will give you business in a box. All of the sales training, all of the sales coaching support, all of the tech support, all of the content, all of the sales, all of the marketing. And you go out and find your clients and deliver to them this language of mental health subscription and it'll be, it's just going to be glorious. I just, I'm so excited for it and I can't even wait for it. And I think it's going to be super, super great.

Sara Sheehan: [00:26:50] Well, I think what is so interesting to me about it is that there are so many people out there that would love to own their own business, but they don't know where to start and they really need someone that is essentially creating a 'done for you' opportunity. So let's talk about who an ideal franchisee would be.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:27:11] Yeah, I really think it is somebody, so maybe it's an HR professional who has a real passion for workplace mental health and wants to impact more than just the organization that they currently work for, that they want to be an entrepreneur, but the idea of owning a business is terrifying. This is really an accelerator for those fine folks who have a passion, have some skill in facilitation, have a big network that they want to be able to support and provide services for, but don't want to do any of the business building work. I will absolutely just give you that business in a box. It's also good for psychologists or mental health professionals that don't want to work in a one on one counseling therapist type environment anymore, because I know a lot of health care professionals that are super burnt out and looking to get kind of away from that frontline work and support more people in a smaller amount of time, you know, greater value, smaller amount of time. So if you are a mental health professional that's looking for a change, you are an ideal customer. Also, if you're a sales professional who just believes in heart centered work, you don't have to be a facilitator of this, of this product. We have facilitators that you can contract out. But if you're just really great at connecting and building business from a heart centered point of view, I want to talk to you too.

Sara Sheehan: [00:28:39] That's amazing. And so when do you think you'll be ready to sign up franchisees. Are you ready now?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:28:48] I am pre-selling now with the expectation of launch January 2024 and we are recording this in April of 2023, so I expect pre-sales to happen in the Fall of 2023. And if you are kind of a founding, a founding advisor, a founding franchisee, the franchise fee will be lower for you in exchange for your thoughts and opinions. And really to help me form what this package, what this opportunity looks like for future advisors.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:23] And so those initial advisors can provide you feedback. They may be able to give you a testimonial about the experience of using your materials with clients, and they may be able to speak to the return on investment for their clients and their business.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:29:43] 100%. You got it.

Sara Sheehan: [00:29:44] Fantastic. Well, this is a super exciting opportunity and I love the timing of when our discussion is today because you are right at the point of generating interest. And so we want our listeners that might have an interest in this program or any of your others to reach out to you for a discovery session. So make sure that I have your meeting link that I can include in show notes.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:30:19] Amazing. I will for sure. Thank you so much for that opportunity.

Sara Sheehan: [00:30:22] Absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like to share with our listeners?

Lindsay Recknell: [00:30:28] I think just that if you are curious at all, if you are interested to know how you can make a personal impact or how you can influence the decision makers at your organization to do this kind of work, let's have a conversation about that. I will absolutely meet you wherever you're at, wherever that is. And if your organization isn't quite ready for an investment in that space, let's talk about the ways that you can get ready, the things you can do now to build some grassroots momentum, to find some influencers up and down the chain and the kind of impact that you can make on an individual level as well, to start supporting the wellness in your organization if you're not quite ready to bring in a consultant or a strategist to do this kind of work.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:18] Fantastic. And so, Lindsay, please share with us how listeners can find you or reach out to you, and we'll make sure to include that in the show notes clearly as well.

Lindsay Recknell: [00:31:30] I hang out a lot on LinkedIn and I'm only one of two Lindsay Recknells and the only Canadian, so I'm easy to find. Definitely that's the best place. And then my website is ParadigmCW.com and you can see all my programs and get a hold of me quite easily there too.

Sara Sheehan: [00:31:47] Fantastic. Well, Lindsay, I can't thank you enough for being here. I want my listeners to know that I have the highest recommendation for Lindsay. She's a true professional and she is someone that will add great value to you and your business. And for all of those professionals out there that need continuing education hours, please consider Lindsay's course. It will be deep in knowledge, you'll be able to apply it the next day and you'll be able to finish it in three weeks. That sounds pretty remarkable to me. Excellent. With that, I appreciate your time today and I wish you well.

View Details

Sara Sheehan talks about the compelling current topic of organization design. She highlights some statistics about organizations and redesign that are staggering, before exploring what a successful redesign must incorporate. Sara has real expertise in this area and she shares some valuable insights.

The first point Sara makes is not to think small. Organizational redesign is not about small structural changes but how a business operates from a strategic level. What are your organization’s strengths and weaknesses and what is your long-term strategy? Sara takes a point-by-point approach on how to think about different factors that work into strategy.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan lays out a way to plan for a successful redesign by considering both internal and external factors, identifying your organization’s capabilities, and when to turn the focus onto technology and people. The steps she outlines are intended to help an organization lean into a redesign that is efficient, effective, and adaptable. It is vital to establish an improvement plan that considers everything from start to finish and Sara can help make that plan.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Small Business Currents
• “Thriving in the Age of Disruption: A Comprehensive Overview to Organizational Redesign” written by Sara Sheehan (posted by Maria Haubrich)

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there. My name is Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today, I'd like to talk a little bit about organization design. This is a very compelling and interesting topic right now. The contents that will shape this podcast is part of an article that will be published in Small Business Currents. And the title of the article is 'Thriving in the Age of Disruption: A Comprehensive Overview to Organizational Design'. As we enter 2023 and I cannot believe it's 2023, many businesses are needing to take a step back and take a look at how they're performing, their position in the marketplace, and consider whether their operating model needs to change so that they can be more relevant in the marketplace. It's a little known fact that 50% of organizations have gone through a redesign in the last two years and the other 50% will do so in the next two years. The level and scale of change in business is astronomical. Less than a quarter of organization redesign efforts are successful. I want to restate that because that is such an amazing fact. Less than one quarter of organization redesign efforts are successful. How do you know that it's time to actually address your operating model and your organization design? The real key comes in not keeping or thinking small. Don't think about small structural changes. You need to be thinking about how you operate from a strategic level. Consider that you would like to create an organization that remains viable and productive. You want to identify your organization's strengths and opportunities, as well as link those to your long term business strategy, your accountability framework, and make sure that you engage the entire organization to collaborate on your future.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:15] You might want to also take a hard look at the behavior changes that would be required in your organization for the change to be successful, for it to take root, and for people to actually operate in a new way, successfully embedding those behaviors in your culture. There are certain business situations that indicate a need for organization redesign. Some of them include a regional growth initiative. Completing a new merger or acquisition. Or even after outsourcing a major function. Sometimes it might be a situation where it's a little bit less obvious that a redesign might be helpful. If your key decision makers in the company find that agreed upon ideas aren't being translated into action fast enough, that's a big indicator. An indicator of growth oriented needs might include things like sales are outpacing the delivery of your products, fulfillment needs process structure and resources to be successful. Supply chain strategies offer competitive pricing and cost containment advantages. And finally, outsourcing of functions or centralized shared services support efficient operations. Those are just a few of the things that could be going on in a growing business that might indicate you might want to take a look at how your organization is structured and how it works together across business units, regions, functions and the like. It's really, really important to start by looking at what your current structure is. Document your ‘as is’ organization structure, and make sure that you have a sense of where your company currently stands, how your customers and the market at large perceive your organization, and whether the management style actually fits with those that engage your business.

Sara Sheehan: [00:06:10] You might also want to pay attention to major external factors in the world. Like changes in technology, market trends or new competition. They all make a difference in how you are performing. Everyone impacts each other in the marketplace, it's a truly live and ever changing environment. By taking these factors into consideration, you're going to be able to really take a close look at what your future organization design needs to be. When you are taking a look at your future state design, you're going to want to take a close look at your organization's capabilities. You're going to want to identify is that a mature capability or are we actually novice in that skill area? It's important to note that by region, function and business unit. That process is going to give you a clear picture of your organization's strengths and weaknesses and help you identify areas for improvement. It's also going to help you understand where the capabilities fit with your overall business strategy and if there are regulatory or compliance requirements that need to be considered. Once you've taken a look at your key capabilities, you can begin to assess the resources and infrastructure to support them. This may be where the focus turns to technology, people or process. It's critical to take a look at the current state of these resources and identify gaps so that you can truly bring the desired state into reality.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:38] Finally, capabilities can operate at the enterprise level or a local level. And it really depends on the situation. It's important to understand the impact on the overall organization and how the design of the future state needs to take those eccentricities into account. If a capability is only required in an enterprise level, it may be centralized actually in the organization, and it may be a situation where the capability is only needed at a local level, may be truly decentralized. By considering all of this, your organization is going to be designed in an efficient, effective and adaptable way.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:37] After you map out the capabilities, you're going to want to take a close look at the business processes that support the organization. You're going to want to determine if they need to be improved or made more efficient. And you're going to want to take a close look at these improved processes because they're going to reveal operating model and governance that will support business growth and success. Capabilities and the improved business processes may also reveal things like a new function, a new department, or a team that needs to be established to operate as a business scales. Taking a close look at business process improvement and the plan to get there will also give you insight into the time required to complete the process from start to finish, and the number of resources required to execute it. If this conversation about what goes into organization design is of interest to you, by all means, reach out to me. I have real expertise in this area and could help you redesign your organization. Check out the show notes for a link to meet with me so that you can learn more. Thanks so much and have a great day.

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Sara Sheehan talks about self awareness and how vital it is to developing your leadership effectiveness. She details several foundational aspects of self awareness including active listening, gratitude, and consistent life habits. Sara confirms that mindset, which is part of self awareness, is one of the most powerful tools a leader can possess.

Active listening, one of the first foundations of self awareness, is the act of being fully present in conversations. Both engaging with others and identifying areas for improvement within yourself simultaneously. Sara explains the SCARF model, a tool for working on active listening, to guide your efforts.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan addresses gratitude and meditation as well as developing consistent life habits for yourself. Gratitude and meditation both contribute towards a positive mindset and personal resilience, according to Sara, and she breaks down how they’ve helped her. She also offers the habits that she’s worked on to better herself and explains how to engrain habits in your brain. Listen to what Sara shares and don’t hesitate to reach out to her if you’d like to learn more.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• BRAINZ magazine
• “SCARF: a brain-based model for collaborating with and influencing others” by David Rock, first published in the NeuroLeadership Journal, Issue One, 2008
• Headspace
• Insights Timer
• Calm

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

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Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hello there. I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today, I'd like to talk a little bit about self awareness and how it plays such a big role in any leader's development. There's a lot that goes into it. If, after listening to today's podcast, you would like to learn more, check out the show notes for a link to book a meeting with me.

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:38] So today I'd like to talk about self awareness and the critical role it plays in effective leadership development. There's a lot that goes into it. In terms of unpacking it, I first want to ground the discussion today in that the content that is framing this podcast is from an article that will be published in Brainz magazine. The title to the article is 'Self Awareness: The Key to Effective Leadership Development'. Active listening is one of the most foundational parts of self awareness. Active listening means that you as a participant in a conversation, you are fully present in your conversation and you're actually able to engage others and identify areas where you can improve, simultaneously. You're able to gain insight on how you engage with others so that every interaction can become better. One of the tools that I find really helpful in talking about active listening and self awareness is David Rock's The SCARF Model. And the SCARF Model is related to Status, which is about where you are in relation to others around you. Certainty, which is concerned with being able to predict the future. Autonomy, which provides a sense of control over events. Relatedness is a sense of safety with others, of a friend rather than a foe. And finally, Fairness. It's a perception of impartiality and just exchanges between participants. This model really helps to consider how you might impact others in your interactions, but you can also find ways to make a conversation more beneficial for the other person.

Sara Sheehan: [00:03:29] Just take it into consideration. Think about how you relate with those domains and see how you might pull the lever differently in your next conversation. A lot of times there is an inner dialogue that's taking place within your mind, clearly, that inner dialogue is literally between the ears and it is a critical part of your own self awareness, becoming more aware of the thoughts that are going through your mind. These thoughts and beliefs are things that you hold true about yourself. They can significantly impact your professional and personal life. Your mindset is an absolute help or inhibitor to your success. Becoming more aware of these thoughts, you can shift your success and future in a more positive direction. You have to choose to turn on a little bit more attention to what's going on in your inner dialogue to do that. That's the key.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:00] I'd like to talk a little bit about gratitude and meditation and how these two wonderful practices can impact your own self awareness. When you're a little bit more aware of what's going on in your mind and your thoughts, you can cultivate a positive mindset through doing things that are positive and helpful to others, specifically showing outward gratitude, overt acts of thankfulness, as well as taking time out of your busy schedule to quiet your mind and focus through meditation. Getting a daily gratitude practice into your life could be as easy as writing three things down every single day that you're thankful for. You can choose to make it more overt and extroverted. You might put a post on LinkedIn, a social media post where you're grateful for the team member that went the extra mile for you and a very important deliverable. You might write a personal thank you note that you put actually in the mail, which is a very lost art. Absolutely a lost art. When you're doing this kind of thing, you are shifting your mind and your heart towards more positive things in your life and it becomes sticky. This is a very good thing because negative thoughts tend to have the power to override positive. But if you're constantly practicing gratitude, you're doing it every day through writing down three things that you're thankful for, you're doing more overt, extroverted practices of gratitude, you're sending out positivity into the world, and it does overwrite the negative. Over time, it absolutely does.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:39] Separately, meditation has a tremendous power to help you be present and resilient in the face of uncertainty, possibly chaos or crisis. It has absolutely made a difference for me personally. There are apps that you can use for meditation, apps like Headspace, Insights Timer or Calm. I highly recommend all of them, and they come highly recommended to me in terms of personal use. I have used Insights Timer. I also have other sources of music that I love to use in freeform meditation and I just highly recommend starting with even five or ten minutes that you take out of your day to focus. To breathe. And to literally take time to clear your mind. It is amazing what it will do for you long term. Mindfulness is one of those things that will help you literally focus on the positive in the future and be more resilient in the face of change today.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:13] The last big area that I'd like to talk about today is related to getting some consistent habits in your life that are foundational, like focusing on regular exercise or your sleep. The third big one there, of course, is what you eat. All three things are considered foundational habits. And they absolutely can change your outlook on your life because they have this effect of essentially casting a wonderful shadow. A wonderful beam of light on the rest of your day and they help you to literally boost your performance, increase your energy and literally help you achieve more in a day than you could without them. Separately, when you combine these foundational habits with mindfulness, it is amazing at how much more productive and higher level performance you can deliver. It absolutely will not only increase your overall health, but it will also make you a better person each and every day. Creating a habit takes more than 60 days. According to research, it takes 66 days to truly create a habit with a literal route that is created in your brain where neurons are connected and it's easier on the brain to do the habit than not after it's created. It's a pretty remarkable thing, these habits, because your brain will always choose to do something that it knows to do because there's no new learning involved. Once it's learned to do that behavior, it's super easy to snap the rubber band and get right back to it. You'll be more likely to keep going if you just keep practicing. I've also found that tracking your habits will make you more likely to stick to the creation of a habit, if you track it. I use a tracker within a calendar to track a number of habits that I want to make truly routine in my life. And it is anything from exercise to good sleep to things like practicing writing or practicing time blocking or practicing daily priorities. There's a good list of habits that I'm working on. My daily priority habit is one where I create a list of the 3 to 5 things that I want to accomplish the next day, and I literally will put an X next to each habit every day to track my completion of the habit and start small, because if you start small, you're going to be more likely to complete it and be more likely to reach that 66 day magic habit creation finish line. It's pretty remarkable what happens when you look at a tracker and you're able to see how many days in a row that you did something and then all of a sudden you can see their gaps and then you're going to try to find a way to eliminate those gaps. And that's the magic that tracking provides. Once you create that habit, you'll see how powerful and beneficial it can be for you. These are just a few of the things that play a critical role in creating self awareness and helping leaders develop more every day by taking time to look within and listen actively, cultivating a truly positive mindset and healthy habits. You can gain a deeper understanding of yourself and how you interact with others. This is going to help you become a more effective leader and truly experience personal growth in the process.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:58] I have worked earnestly on many of these aspects of self awareness for the past few years, and I can't tell you how powerful mindset is to help or hinder you in your personal or professional life. I am extremely grateful for the practices that I've started over the last two years in journaling with gratitude, a lot of extroverted appreciation, thankfulness and gratitude. It is making a difference not only on my mindset but on others. I can tell in my interactions with people. Make sure you get those grateful words out on paper in your conversations and even in social media should you choose to be that public. It's tremendous how much positivity will come back to you. It's really not surprising that these mindset practices can really help you have more clarity, joy, and peace at the end of the day. I know that I am a calmer person thanks to these practices, no matter what's going on in the world, in the news. I would love to hear from the listeners and hear what you think about these self awareness tactics and how they might make an impact on leadership development or even your development and growth as a leader. Please weigh in, in comments, and if you'd like to learn more, by all means, reach out to me for a meeting.

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Sara Sheehan discusses the power of effective conversations and the positive impact careful conversations can have. She presents ideas such as applying appreciative inquiry and positive psychology to our daily interactions. The goal is to create better relationships through useful conversation.

‘Conversational Intelligence’ is a book by Judith E Glaser that introduces the idea of just that: conversational intelligence. Sara unpacks Judith Glaser’s ideas and lays out exactly how conversational intelligence works and why it’s of such benefit to organizational culture. There are roadmaps that can be created for conversations to ensure their success.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan breaks down exactly why intelligent conversations matter, how effective conversations build higher levels of trust within organizations, and why positive connections with others ultimately leads to business success. There is a strategy to conversation that will de-escalate conflict and heighten engagement and connection within organizations.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• “The Power and Impact of Effective Conversations in the Workplace” by Sara Sheehan, Financial Digest
• “Conversations Worth Having” by Jackie Stavros and Cheri Torres
• “Conversational Intelligence” by Judith E Glaser

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Transcript

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:02] Hi there. I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today, I'd like to talk with you a little bit about the power and impact of effective conversations. This discussion is based on an article of the same name that was published recently in Finance Digest. If the conversation is of interest to you, by all means, check out the show notes and there will be a link to the Finance Digest article and you can read it at your leisure.

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:43] In terms of today, there is so much to talk about. When focusing on the power and impact of effective conversations in the workplace, our conversations provide a powerful indicator of where our hearts and minds are. How we interact with our colleagues will either enforce a healthy team dynamic or create division and conflict. When seeking to drive change in organizational culture, consider applying appreciative inquiry, positive psychology, and really caring for others in the conversation to yield dynamic and dramatic improvement in employee engagement, performance and productivity. So you might be thinking, why do we need to change our conversations? In the book 'Conversations Worth Having' by Stavros and Torres, it provides an outstanding framework for changing how we approach others, create better relationships and improving organizational culture. When you're going into an important conversation, adopt an attitude of curiosity by asking open-ended, appreciative inquiry questions. Come from a place of possibilities rather than negative problems. When you do this, you're taking a positive approach in all that you say, ask or frame in the conversation.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:44] Seeking to understand or innovate creative ways to improve any aspect of the business, these things create opportunities. Any time you use appreciative inquiry in a conversation, you'll enhance the relationship, productivity and performance of the other participants in the conversation. It provides a powerful return on investment of our time and approach. Let's take an example that will provide a real world application of conversations worth having. Here's a scenario that may help bring conversations worth having to light. Imagine your company has been acquired. Many long term employees are transitioning to the acquiring company. Your company offers a competitive advantage in their products and services, but they need to improve processes and reduce costs in working with acquired and long tenured employees. Use the principles of appreciative inquiry when engaging them on what made their company great. What set them apart from their competitors and what created a positive customer experience? Conversations worth having seeks to understand what made the organization great, what characteristics of great customer experiences are and how the organization created community internally and externally. Creating a positive slant in your conversation that really cares about the other person can generate ideas and really build a bridge between two individuals and organizations. This conversation is going to be more productive and build trust, which is critical. What are quality conversations? The quality of our conversations determines how other people perceive us and want to engage with us.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:20] Conversational intelligence is based on the book with that name by the late Judith E Glaser. I was lucky enough to be part of her certification for coaches and conversational intelligence, which was taught directly by her prior to her passing. It was a tremendous and enlightening experience to learn from her life of research, consulting and coaching. She was an amazing trailblazer in this space. She had great success driving cultural change based on shining a light on how they work together and the tone, emotion and construct of their conversations. In her research and practical applications, she was able to distill frameworks that help us understand what we need to do to have the best conversation possible in every situation. You might be thinking, what is conversational intelligence? Conversational intelligence is the hardwired and learnable ability to connect, navigate and grow with others. We need this type of intelligence to build healthier, more resilient organizations and communities in the face of change or disruption. With conversational intelligence, we are able to understand how conversations shape our relationships, our partnerships, our culture and our reality. It introduces a roadmap for creating higher levels of trust, activating higher levels of employee engagement, strengthening partnerships, and catalyzing co-creation and innovation in relationships, teams, organizations and cultures. As we connect with others in a positive way, it strengthens our ability to express our inner thoughts and feelings as well as opens the door for co-creation to create with someone else a new solution.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:51] Conversational intelligence creates the foundation for trust, high quality relationships and business success. Reaching your highest potential with powerful conversations really requires you to take a step back and apply a few strategies. I have five strategies that I'm going to walk you through today. First of all, ask positive questions that will help you connect with the other person and build trust. Frame your questions in a way that you're supporting the other person's experience and expertise. When you're in a conversation, if you see an opportunity to go deeper, double click on the topic by asking a few more specific questions. See if you can uncover an opportunity to co-create a solution with the other person. If you're going into a difficult conversation, make sure you think about the topics you want to cover. Set expectations for the roadmap of that conversation and ask the other person to take a role in the conversation so that it's truly two way. Use words that will frame where you are on that road map so that everyone knows what steps we've completed, what steps are ahead and where we are. Use positive language as much as possible to keep the other party engaged and listening. If you're in an emotionally charged conversation, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking to pause the conversation and set new terms or boundaries for the next time you meet. It's okay to ask. Hey, since this meeting is getting a little bit tense, I'd like to ask that we pause and regroup in a week. And oh, by the way, when we come into that meeting, I would love for you to bring your thoughts and ideas to the conversation.

Sara Sheehan: [00:10:22] Having the other person focus on ideas and solutions rather than problems can be a huge help in building a bridge. Finally, using formal rules of engagement for team meetings and your one on ones can help keep conversations on track and productive. The rules of engagement need to be known and understood by all team members, and they don't have to be complicated. They can be as simple as: don't interrupt others when they're speaking, use open-ended questions when seeking more information, or setting a framework for a standing agenda for every meeting. Rules of engagement can help create trust as well in a group because they know what to expect when they're coming into the meeting. They can come into the meeting prepared and able to contribute, and it really helps build the bridge that extends outside of the workplace with relationships that are better and relationships that have less conflict. I would love to hear your thoughts after listening to today's discussion. If you reflect on this conversation and you have interest to learn more, check out the article in Finance Digest. And by all means, if you're interested in exploring how we can work together, feel free to reach out for me for a meeting.

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Sara Sheehan presents a strong case for the value of executive coaching for your business. The return on investment that can be achieved with coaching has been studied numerous times and Sara goes through revealing statistics about real-life results.

More business people than you may think are likely employing the services of an executive coach. They may not reveal it publicly but studies about coaching benefits make a compelling case and many businesses have taken heed. A 2001 study by a Fortune 500 firm and a coaching services group revealed that coaching produced a 529% return on investment.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan details exactly what types of results and ROI you can expect to produce with executive coaching. These are benefits that are both tangible - productivity increases, bottom line profitability increases, and so on - and intangible - improved client relationships, reduced conflict, and more. Sara breaks down the studies done on executive coaching then describes what to expect when you enter a one-on-one executive coaching relationship. Questions you may have about coaching efficacy are answered here.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• “Executive Briefing: Case Study on the Return on Investment of Executive Coaching”, prepared by: Merrill C. Anderson, Ph.D. MetrixGlobal, LLC, November 2, 2001
• “Maximizing the Impact of Executive Coaching: Behavioral Change, Organizational Outcomes, and Return on Investment” by Joy McGovern, Ph.D., Michael Lindemann, Ph.D., Monica Vergara, M.A., Stacey Murphy, Linda Barker, M.A., & Rodney Warrenfeltz, Ph.D., The Manchester Review, Volume 6, 2001
• 2020 ICF Global Coaching Study, Executive Summary
• “How’s Your Return on People?” by Laurie Bassi and Daniel McMurrer, Harvard Business Review, March 2004

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Transcript

Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I would like to share some astonishing findings on the return on investment for executive coaching. If you'd like to learn more after listening today, check out the show notes for a link to book a meeting with me. Have a great day.

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:00] Hi there. My name is Sara Sheehan and welcome to Transformational Thinkers with Sarah Sheehan. Today I would like to talk a little bit about the power of executive coaching and the return on investment that you can achieve. Executive and leadership coaching can help a business grow and thrive tremendously. Today, I'd like to cover four different studies that look at return on investment for executive coaching. And then I would like to talk a little bit about the tangible and intangible business benefits from executive coaching. And finally, I would like to highlight what an experience with one on one executive coaching might feel like, create a scenario, if you will, for what the experience might be for you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:01:09] Starting at the top, all of the research studies that have been conducted on executive coaching and the return on investment for it, show a truly astronomical return on investment. It's one of those things that you can do for yourself or your business that is absolutely going to be a springboard for success and business results. When you hear that, you start to think, Why aren't more people doing it? I believe that there are a lot of people out there in the business world that have an executive coach, but they may not be talking about it. They might share in confidence in a very private conversation that they're working with someone and the return on investment or results that they've personally experienced. But I truly believe there are more people out there that are working with a coach and helping to put themselves in a better position every single day.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:34] The first study was conducted by a Fortune 500 firm and a coaching services group, and the study was published in November of 2001. The bottom line is that the report found that coaching produced a 529% return on investment and significant business benefits. When they included the financial benefits from employee retention, the return on investment number was boosted to 788%. That is phenomenal. This particular study also provided a lot of new insights about the business benefits from executive coaching, and it mirrors the next study that I will highlight as well. Both of these studies found the same business benefits, whether tangible or intangible. The two questions that this first study looked at, research questions that is, the first one is How did executive coaching add value to the business and what was the return on investment? And second question How could executive coaching be best leveraged in the future, especially if coaching was to be expanded to other business regions? Very interesting, straightforward and compelling questions. When taking a look at that study and realizing that it was published over 20 years ago. The second study was also published around the same time in 2001. It was conducted by Manchester Consulting and they surveyed 100 executives from Fortune 1000 companies. This is where the intangible and tangible benefits come into play. They found some remarkable tangible business benefits across both the first and the second study for Manchester. Some of the tangible business benefits include productivity increasing 53%, quality improvements over 48%, organizational strength improvement 48%, customer service improvements 39%, reduced complaints by 34%, employee retention up 32%, cost reduction in the business 23%, bottom line profitability 22%, top line revenue increase 14%, reduced turnover 12%, and many other business benefits. Let's talk about the intangible side of the equation. In general, across the board, relationships improved, whether it was with direct reports, key stakeholders, improvement of teamwork, improved relationships with your peers or clients. All of those relationships improved by 77% to 37% across the board. Huge improvements in relationships. You can become much more aware of how you interact with people through executive coaching, and that is a great intangible business benefit right there. They also found improved job satisfaction by 61%, reduced conflict by 52%, increased organizational commitment by 44%, and many more business benefits. That is some tremendous improvement that can be found in your business just by being employee first, focusing on your employees growth and helping them to get there.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:32] The next study that I would like to take a look at is one that was conducted by the International Coaching Federation, and they found the following statistics as the benefits of executive coaching based on their own research. They found 70% increase in individual performance, along with measurable goal attainment, clearer communication and higher satisfaction. They found a 50% increase in team performance evidenced through better conversations, improved collaborations, and enhanced work performance. They found 48% increase in organizational performance through the business results of increase in revenue, increase in employee retention, higher customer satisfaction and customer advocacy. And finally, 86% of organizations saw a return on investment on their coaching engagements, and 96% of those who had an executive coach said they would repeat the process again. Those are stunning findings.

Sara Sheehan: [00:08:59] I would like to highlight the next study. The next study is an article titled How's Your Return on People. It was published in Harvard Business Review in March of 2004. The authors did a review of three stock portfolios that were filled with companies that spend aggressively on employee development. They found that those stock portfolios outperformed the S&P 500 by 17% to 35%. That is a stunning marketplace finding. If you focus on employee development, not only can you increase your revenue, increase your profitability, reduce costs, you can also perform better in the market by focusing on employee development. That is remarkable. My goodness. When you take a step back and you consider the facts, you consider these stunning findings, why wouldn't you have an executive coach to help you navigate dilemmas at work. Prepare for difficult conversations. Figure out the best way to approach or solve a problem. Set some really wonderful aspirational goals. Having an executive coach can help you do all of that and more. I just want to create a scenario here. I just want to describe what you can expect to experience with an executive coach. Let's say you are working with a coach on a 12 week engagement or a 6 month engagement. The types of things that you would expect to do with that executive coach would include things like meet weekly for up to an hour, you might complete a few assessments to help shine a light on your strengths, how you interact with others, and how others perceive you.

Sara Sheehan: [00:11:34] You might be able to talk through performance feedback with your coach as well as talk about what your biggest aspirations are. You can expect to create three lofty, aspirational goals as well as put together all of the strategies and actions that will help you achieve them. You can expect to be able to start working on those goals in a tangible way by working the plan and reporting back to your coach about the results that you're achieving. You will be held accountable for the actions that you're taking each week in your coaching relationship. You may find that you increase your visibility at work because you take strategic actions. You might demonstrate your thought leadership to differentiate yourself among your peers at work. And you might take time to rebuild relationships and resolve conflicts that make a difference for you, for your relationships and your future. Finally, you might set up an advisory team to help you be even more successful in the future. That's just a little bit about what working with an executive coach could look like and what it might feel like for you. If hearing and learning about all of the research that's been done on return on investment for executive coaching and understanding what a one on one experience might look like, if you would like to learn more by all means reach out to me for a discovery session. Check the show notes for a link to set up a meeting with me. Have a great day.

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Sara Sheehan introduces us to The Predictive Index’s Talent Optimization strategy in this episode. More than just an introduction, however, Sara explains exactly why talent optimization is so critical for businesses right now and unpacks how The Predictive Index and talent optimization assists companies in driving business results.

The “people tax” is defined as increased turnover, lower engagement, lower productivity, and more. What Sara presents is the ways in which talent optimization aligns you with your people and your people with your business goals. She details the big four questions that talent optimization seeks to answer about your organization.

In this episode, Sara Sheehan breaks down how she guides clients through talent optimization via illustration or using real data garnered from their team, she reveals the top three people dynamics impacting business results, and she lays out some statistics that provide compelling reasons to pursue talent optimization sooner rather than later. She understands the modules within Predictive Index’s talent optimization strategy and can guide clients to tangible people actions for bettering business outcomes.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• The Predictive Index

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Transcript:

Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking about The Predictive Index and how talent optimization assists companies in driving business results. If you would like to learn more after listening to today's discussion, check out the show notes for a link to book a meeting with me. Have a great day.

Sara Sheehan: [00:00:00] Hi there. My name is Sara Sheehan and welcome to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. And today I want to talk to you a little bit about talent optimization. And in today's conversation, I want to make sure that I am sharing with my listeners that I am a Predictive Index certified partner, and I'm extremely aligned with Predictive Index's approach and their solutions. It's statistically reliable and valid, and it takes an incredibly small amount of time to complete the behavioral or the cognitive assessment. So it's an extremely low time investment and it's extremely cost effective for clients. So bearing all that in mind, I want to be very upfront that from a talent optimization perspective, Predictive Index is who I am aligned with. And today I would like to talk a little bit about what talent optimization is and why it is so important. In terms of the conversation today, I just want to start out with the fact that every business leader bears the weight of executing a business strategy that drives results. They are charged with helping their people to execute on the mission of the business. This is harder than it seems. It's an extremely heavy weight. It can be overwhelming and stressful. People are extremely complex. Leaders are often forced to rely on their gut and finally abdicating to HR Doesn't help business leaders because HR is even further from the business strategy and they are guessing too.

Sara Sheehan: [00:02:33] So it's quite a quandary. All of the guesswork that comes in to the decisions that leaders make, creates a people tax in increased turnover, lower engagement, lower productivity, just to name a few. The people tax puts the business strategy at risk and leads to missed business targets. When there are people issues, they will show up as a people tax, an execution risk, or missed business targets every time. No organization out there is immune to this situation and the messy part of the people side of the business, but it doesn't have to be a mess. So with a talent optimization expert, you can have a clear path forward. The Predictive Index approach takes a little bit of a different point of view. It provides a lens into your business with the practice of talent optimization, allowing you to align your people with your business goals. They provide the ability to answer four big questions. Are you designing to deliver on the goals? Rather, do you have the players on the field in the right position to score in your business? Are you hiring with intentionality to support and drive the needs of the business context? Third, are you motivating your people in the ways that motivate and boost engagement? And finally, are there trouble spots under the surface that could pose as a risk to the business? With that lens, it provides you the ability to understand the whys behind the people tax, the execution risks that you have, and the missed business targets.

Sara Sheehan: [00:05:14] There's not a business out there that isn't experiencing at least one of these issues somewhere in the business. So considering all of that, let's take a look at an example. As a talent optimization expert, given that all business problems, both internal and external, are solved and navigated by people, I ground my clients to ask one multi million dollar question, Who can help me solve this? Who can help me solve this problem? Is it the people in the room who are on the team that can help me move this forward? Is it the people in the building? So are there other people in the building, in the organization that we can leverage, either through internal promotions or moves, or is it someone on the street? Are there folks on the street who can deliver on this for us, or is it some combination of the three above situations. I can provide a scenario, a demonstration that's illustrative using demo data, or I can meet with potential clients and really have a true detailed one on one talent strategy session where we're looking at real data based on your team's behavioral assessment in the system. And you can understand the Predictive Index world of work, where your team sits, what their key behavior styles and needs are, and really begin to create a tangible action plan with real data. Either scenario can provide a very insightful conversation about who's on your team and the business results that you are getting.

Sara Sheehan: [00:07:54] Considering all of this, considering that I could do a demo session or a customized one on one talent strategy session, at the end of the meeting you would understand your top three people dynamics impacting your business results. You would have a personalized course of action to close the gaps, and we can develop a plan with quick wins and a key path forward in one meeting. It's pretty compelling. A very little amount of time is required on a very high return on investment. And so why does all of this matter now more than ever? 69% of companies restructured their teams during the pandemic. And by the way, this is based on the Predictive Index's CEO benchmarking report from 2021. Secondly, 25% of employees will quit post-pandemic. 97% of CEOs are allowing some degree of remote work moving forward. And an incredibly large number of companies are dealing with the return from remote right now, trying to determine are they going to remain remote, are they going to be hybrid? Are they going to return to an office culture with commutes? There's a lot at stake right now.

Sara Sheehan: [00:09:43] And considering all of that, the Predictive Index SVP of Talent Optimization said when asked, What's the number one threat coming for organizations in 2022? She said retention. So the sooner the better. You want to have an eye on your people. On their needs, on their behavioral styles, and the business results that you're getting. It is an amazing conversation that can yield tremendous benefits. Now, I'd like to transition into talking a little bit more tangibly about the essentials in talent optimization. And the essentials in talent optimization are grounded in four key things. Number one, in every talent strategy conversation, it needs to be based on the business context, because if it's not, you will not deliver business results. Secondly, all talent strategy conversations need to be data driven. If they are not, they are based on whimsy, intuition, and gut feeling. And that is not a sound fact based strategy. Third, there needs to be more leaders at more levels of the organization. I'm stating that because talent optimization really is not the job of HR. While HR can be a tremendous and valuable business partner in the process, the business needs to own it. They absolutely need to own it. All of the decisions need to be business oriented and purposeful. Fourth, the fourth major essential in talent optimization is to recognize the forces of disengagement. These are the points in time the forces that cause a person to opt out of employee engagement. This might force them to decide they're going to quit. These are the things that we want to have our eye on in talent optimization. First of all, what's the nature of the job and the role, and does it fit the individual? Second, the manager/individual relationship. That is one of the most important aspects of an individual's happiness is their manager relationship. Third, the team and the team dynamics, the relationships that each team has with others as well. Whether it's in a process or an enterprise. Team dynamics can have a tremendous impact on business performance and success. Fourth, culture fit. The fit between the individual and the greater organization overall. Is the relationship one that supports success for the organization? Those essentials and talent optimization really ground what Predictive Index is looking at.

Sara Sheehan: [00:14:03] There are four major modules within Predictive Index. They are taking a look at design. So the actual organization design. Who the people are. Leadership style and fit. Based on the world of work, they are looking at two processes that are done every single day. Hire and inspire. In hire you're clearly taking a look at designing new positions. Taking a look at behaviors or cognitive abilities that are a fit for that position. Preparing the interview team in advance. Making sure that the individual candidates are a fit not only for the team, the manager, but also the organization. All of those considerations are in hire. In inspire, that's where we get to engaging employees, and you're able to really start to understand where they are relative to career paths. And is a career path motivating for a particular person that's in a particular position. We are looking at things like job redesign. And what skills and abilities might be more competitive in today's marketplace. We are looking at team dynamics and reinforcing the culture. The final piece that Predictive Index looks at is diagnosing. So they are actually diagnosing issues or problems. They are measuring employee engagement with an employee engagement survey. You can use that survey to actually measure the four forces of disengagement and see where your organization actually is on those four forces of disengagement. You can also analyze data after you've measured it, and then finally, you can prescribe actions that are tangible and will help you meet your business goals with results. If any of this conversation on talent optimization is of interest to you, by all means, I encourage you to reach out. And let's talk about having a one on one talent strategy session for your organization. I would love to hear from you and I would love to help you drive better business results through your people.

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In this first episode of Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan, Sara introduces us to herself, her career history, and her business. Sara already shares insight and experience through her consulting work, but this podcast gives her another platform in which to address some of the corporate transformational concerns resonating through the business world today.

Sara discusses how COVID-19 changed the office culture landscape in ways that can’t be ignored. The shift to remote and hybrid working can’t be dialed back, and Sara advises that companies will additionally need to take a hard look at employee engagement and customer care. She names the four factors in transformation success and explains how taking them into consideration greatly impacts successful outcomes.

In this episode, Sara details exactly what her consulting company can offer clients. She explains the ROI and life-changing potential within her PInnacle Executive Coaching Program, shares the ways in which her Center for Change Leadership provides supportive community to C-suite changemakers, and lays out the framework of the 12-week Mastering Change Management course. Tune in to learn more about Sara and all the ways in which she can assist in supporting and transforming your business.

Resources discussed in this episode:

• Harvard Business Review: “The Hard Side of Change Management”
• William Bridges
• Harvard Business Review: “Leading Change: Why Transformation Efforts Fail” by John P Kotter
• Dr. Elisabeth Kübler-Ross: EKR Foundation

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Contact Sara Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara

Transcript:

Hi there, I'm Sara Sheehan and welcome to my podcast, Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. Today I'm talking about my specialty in human capital, in the consulting and executive coaching services that I offer my clients. If you would like to learn more after listening to today's discussion, check out the show notes for a link to book a meeting with me.

Sara Sheehan: Hi there. My name is Sara Sheehan and welcome to Transformational Thinkers with Sara Sheehan. I'd like to share a little bit today about who I am and what I do so that listeners have a little more perspective on how we might work together in the future. I bring almost 30 years of experience working with the world's largest consulting firms and Fortune 100 clients. The kinds of projects that I typically work on are big business transformations like mergers and acquisitions, outsourcing of a global function, technology transformations like implementing SAP, Oracle or Workday, custom application development, or other kinds of digital transformations, just to name a few. I specialize in human capital, and that means that I help clients with human performance challenges through organization change management, training, leadership development, organization design, and executive coaching. My clients like to work with me because I make the hard work of adopting change easy. They know that I am a trusted business advisor that they can count on for years to come. I have truly deep personal relationships with clients and business partners alike. Relationships matter a ton to me and I value them for all that they bring to my life and to my work. In terms of my ideal client, I am looking to work with companies at $100 million in revenue up to a couple billion dollars in revenue. And I am not looking to compete with my former firms at all. I'm interested in working with growing companies that really see the value in investing in people, companies that want to increase employee engagement, that want to develop more leaders at more levels of the organization, and companies that see that investing in people increases shareholder value. That's the kind of client that I would love to work with. So thank you for giving me an opportunity to share a little bit about me and my business.

Sara Sheehan: Now I'd like to transition our conversation to talk a little bit about big challenges affecting business, as well as four key factors for transformation success, and then transition into giving you a definition on what change management is and sharing a little bit about the ways that Sara Sheehan Consulting works with clients. That's my agenda for today and I very much look forward to hearing back from you after getting through the conversation. And so moving forward, let's talk about what the current challenges are facing senior executives. They are enormous. After two years of constant disruption, there are signs of acceleration in the marketplace. There are some industries that are showing growth and development, but there are permanent changes to office culture. Every business out there is having to work through whether they're going to stay remote, whether they will go hybrid or whether they will truly return to the office. No one can escape this work and the need to focus on your employees and handle it in a way that you keep the relationship intact. There's a tremendous rush to rebuild teams and rehire based on layoffs that occurred during the pandemic, based on loss of business need, as well as employees leaving due to the great resignation or reshuffle. There's a constant need right now to be in tune and tweak employee engagement. Everyone needs to be listening to what their employees think, what they want, and how to build a culture that engages employees. There is a persistent supply chain issue that has not gone away. It started during the pandemic and it continues on today where companies are not able to deliver their products or their solutions. This is across all industries. You'll even find it in your grocery store when you shop for your Thanksgiving meal, I promise you. Unrest in the Ukraine continues to impact business supply chain and well being globally. And finally, customer care has taken a huge hit. Massive hit. Customer care is diminished. It's at one of the lowest levels that I've seen it. And companies are rebuilding their staff because they've gotten so understaffed. But it's pitiful. It is absolutely pitiful. We are not paying attention to the customer enough, and that has to change.

Sara Sheehan: Moving forward, let's talk about four key factors for transformation success when using internal resources. This research was done by Boston Consulting Group, was published in Harvard Business Review in October of 2005. These four factors were common across 200 engagements that they took a close look at. And when you're using internal people, there are some factors that you need to consider where you can take action to stack the deck in your favor towards a positive result. How long is your business transformation? What is the program duration? If it is a long program where it's 12 to 18 months, you will need to have check points in place for leadership reviews, sponsor reviews, business reviews in place, so that you don't go more than six weeks without a major checkpoint. You also want to take into consideration the performance integrity of your people. Are your people able to do their day job and deliver their role on the project? This is a very big deal and you really need to consider what back-fills you need to have in place. And honestly, do you need some temps to help you with certain business processes during crunch periods? These are things that will help you be more successful. Your senior leaders' commitment to the overall success of the engagement. That is not only your senior leaders visible commitment, but also your employees commitment. Those that need to be involved in the project and have a responsible role that they need to deliver on. Are they committed to show up for the work? And finally, what's the level of effort that's required in the project and are they able to deliver against that level of effort over the long haul? Those are four key factors for transformation success when using internal resources.

Sara Sheehan: Let's talk about what is a great definition for change management. I love this definition. It's by William Bridges and. It's very, it touches my heart. It absolutely does. He says, "It isn't the changes that do you in. It's the transition. They are not the same thing. Change is situational. The move to a new site, the retirement of the founder, the reorganization of the roles on the team, the revisions to the pension plan. The transition is the psychological process that people go through to come to terms with the new situation. Change is external and transition is internal. Unless transition occurs, change will not work." It's beautifully said. Why do so many transformation efforts fail? It's remarkable at how many efforts fail. According to McKinsey, 70% of all transformation efforts fail. Contributing factors include insufficiently high aspirations, a lack of engagement within the organization, an insufficient investment in building capabilities across the organization to sustain the change, among others. That is a genius quote, in my opinion, because it encompasses a lot. It talks about insufficiently high aspirations, a lack of engagement, and the fact that they don't have enough capability. Let's talk about the change curve. The change curve comes to organization change management from its beginning by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross in her work on death and dying.

Sara Sheehan: My change curve has been adapted visually from hers that is on her website EKR Foundation dot org and it highlights the emotions, the stages that you go through over time, after learning about your impending demise. Whether it's your death, in her work on death and dying, or in a business context, your impending outsourcing engagement that you just learned about, where they're outsourcing your function globally, you might go through shock, you might have denial, you might be frustrated, you might be depressed, you might really get to a point where you want to start trying options and experimenting so that you can move forward. And then you're going to make a decision and you are going to integrate that decision and be whole, be a new, a new person operating in that new environment. You're accepting that change. What are the benefits of managing change? Well, they are definitely real and they impact the bottom line. The stakeholders are visible and committed. There is a change network that is aligned and prepared and serving as a line of defense. They are also cascading messages and getting feedback from that organization. So serving a two way role that is highly valuable. Your business impacts are identified and mitigated. Your communications and training are timely and thorough. You have managed to deal with that productivity dip in the change curve and you've reduced it. And those changes are fully integrated. Your project is delivering outstanding business results and financial benefits to the bottom line. And finally, you're saving time and money. It's phenomenal benefits.

Sara Sheehan: Let's talk a little bit about how we work with clients. First of all, we have a fully developed change diagnostic to help identify where a client's change capability is currently, where it needs to be in the future, and develop an action plan to help that client get there. We do all kinds of consulting and advisory work and then finally we do executive coaching, learning and community engagement. Let's talk a little bit more about that change diagnostic. The diagnostic could take a few days to a few weeks, depending on how many people the client want engaged in an assessment. In the assessment, the client would identify where they are on a maturity model for each change method component area and where they want to be. So where they are currently, where they want to be in the future. And then those numbers feed into an action plan that will help them get there. It is a very objective discussion and it's one that yields tremendous benefits for clients. This is a paid assessment, but if the client chooses to do follow on work, whether it's the actual recommendation plan that they want to implement or there's another project on the side that is similar or related. Any follow on work means that that change diagnostic is forgiven financially because they got through the process to understand what they need to do to improve. This is a highly valuable experience for clients.

Sara Sheehan: Pinnacle Executive Coaching Program. This program is something that absolutely feeds someone's growth. And it is so rewarding to be part of it. I help busy executives sprint their way up the corporate ladder. The purpose of this particular program is to help individuals that are transitioning into a new role, into a new level, into a new organization to help them to set new goals that they can develop an action plan to achieve, to improve their performance, to resolve conflict, to set up an advisory team so that they can be even more successful in the future. This is a formula that many consulting firms use in the promotion process, and it absolutely works. I have had so many advisory teams over the course of my career and I will always have a group of advisors available to run things by. Things that are part of the program, one on one executive coaching. If the individual's interested in it, they can also get in person observation and feedback for an additional fee. Guidance on navigating complex conversations, dilemmas or managing conflict. A built in action and accountability plan to increase your impact in the organization. And finally, a transition plan and advisory team strategies are all part of the program. Tremendous return on investment for this program.

Sara Sheehan: Mastering Change Management. So this is my digital course. And it is something that you can either take in a live experience or you can take it from a self study perspective via Kajabi. Mastering Change Management is up to 12 weeks, including two weeks for capstone presentations for a cohort that really wants to tie it off with final presentations. But it is the foundational course where I help a client build change capability in their organization. We start off with change management foundations. We go into stakeholder alignment, the assessment mapping and engagement plan process, developing and launching a change network, conducting business readiness assessments, getting a solid communication strategy and plan in place, as well as identifying business impacts and mitigating action plans. Understanding any role or organization impacts and making sure that you're designing for that. Developing a behavior change plan. Making sure that you're addressing any training and leadership development efforts that need to be part of your project. And then finally, employee engagement. This course will have one hour of live content a week with one hour of office hours a week. You would also have a peer to peer support pair or triad that meets weekly. Weekly office hours would be on another day that week. On Friday, participants would post an update to share what they've learned, what challenges they've had, what questions they have. Providing an update to other course members about what they're learning. Finally, Kajabi offers a self study option if you're not into a group. That's the experience in a nutshell.

Sara Sheehan: Finally, I would just like to wrap it up with I have a lot of client testimonials that you can access on my website and my LinkedIn profile. I invite you to check out the wonderful testimonials that I have. I would love to be able to explore your business challenges and understand how I could help you from a human capital perspective. Finally, I just want to share a little bit about me personally. I am a native Texan. I grew up in Arkansas. I went to the University of Arkansas for undergrad and graduate. An interesting fact about me is that every member of my family has at least one degree from Arkansas. So we're all in. Our name is in the sidewalk. I moved to Dallas to work for Anderson Consulting, which is now Accenture, and I have also worked for IBM, KPMG and Deloitte, and I am happily married to my husband, Jeff. We've been married for over 23 years, and I really do love traveling and cooking, exercising and spending time with people that I love, whether it's friends or family. I feel like knowing more about the person and their heart really helps you to understand if you want to work with that person. And I think that's valuable in today's world. I thank my listeners. I appreciate you for giving me a chance to share a little bit about me, my business, and how we work with clients. Have a great day.

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The business world is brewing up a storm. Let's thrive in these extraordinary times together! This is a clarion call to Transformational Thinkers across the globe who are ready to rise up and successfully lead change in their teams.

Every other week, Change Consultant Sara Sheehan talks with leaders and experts to spotlight real-world stories in the change management space. You will walk away with the latest change strategies to empower your employees, enhance your creativity and communication, and establish your legacy as a leader in business.

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Contact Sarah Sheehan | Sara Sheehan Consulting:

• SaraWSheehan.com
• Sara Sheehan on LinkedIn
• Meet with Sara