The Chronic Fatigue & Burnout Recovery Podcast: Recent Episodes
Anna Marsh
The chronic Fatigue & Burnout Recovery Podcast is a practical and trauma-informed approach to recovering from symptoms of fatigue through Somatics, neuroscience, and nutritional therapy.
If you’ve had a viral infection and never felt the same since, relapsed in your healing journey after an acute infection or if you’ve had a vaccine injury, this episode is for you. In this episode Anna explains in simple terms what has likely happened in the case of post-viral fatigue and most importantly, 5 important factors to take into consideration to start to feel better again.
In a nutshell, when we become acutely unwell due to a viral infection, the immune system creates drastic physiological changes and a large amount of inflammation and oxidative stress to save your life! This can cause damage in systems of the body that were already under stress and strain and ultimately it is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
To restore health, function and capacity we want to help the immune system turn off fully. Although the exact framework varies from person to person, there are 5 important steps when it comes to recovering from post-viral fatigue.
Listen to the full episode for all the details.
Useful Links:
Use the code ANNAMARSH for 15% off your first order with BodyBio:
Balance Oil
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See the recipe for Anna’s Raspberry Fat Bomb Here: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAc_3Sps7Fm/
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nurturing Resilience: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
In this episode Anna talks about the difference between Post-Exertional Malaise, Crashes, Flares, Setbacks and the natural change in our output and capacity that comes when you are a human being.
She gives a high level overview of what is happening in the body in each of these experiences, how we can learn from the patterns that we have and the support that is likely needed as a consequence.
She highlights the understanding that if we can identify our tendencies, it reveals information that will help to direct and guide us on our healing journey.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nurturing Resilience: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
Mentioned here: https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-15-how-to-manage-crashes-flares-and-set-backs/
https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-16-post-exertional-malaise/
https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-68-tracking-progress-in-fatigue-recovery/
https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-87-3-tips-for-reducing-flares-and-crashes-around-your-menstrual-cycle/
https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-97-words-of-wisdom-for-crashes-and-flares/
In this episode Anna answers a Chronic Fatigue listener question about Life After Disease: How to cultivate the mindset to move on and not get stuck. Although the title suggests that this is for those further along in their journey, there are still some wisdom bombs for those at any stage of their journey, especially those who are feeling stuck.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nurturing Resilience: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
In this episode Anna shares the four stages of Chronic Fatigue Recovery as she experiences them working with her clients in clinical practice. She discusses each of the stages, how we may experience them and what is important at each stage and how you can support yourself through each stage.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nurturing Resilience: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
In this episode Anna shares some behind the scenes information and talks about two of the tests they end up using most often in the practice, what they typically find, how this is useful to clients and possible results.
If you’ve been feeling like you’ve hit a plateau in your journey and have a budget to explore some additional options, this episode could help you understand a bit more about Functional Testing and how it could be helpful.
Test Links:
GI Effects Stool Test
NutrEval
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nurturing Resilience: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
If you’ve been having a chronic fatigue or chronic illness experience for any length of time, you are probably all too familiar with the cycle of boom and bust. We all do too much and crash from time to time, but when this happens again and again, we want to consider how we are contributing to it.
It isn’t always as simple as; just do less. Sometimes the “overdoing” is a reflection of maladaptive coping mechanisms that we have been relying on for years, decades even. Being able to unlearn old strategies and create new ones takes time, patience and compassion.
In this episode Anna unpacks some of the patterns to watch out for and where we can begin to create healthier coping mechanisms in life.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nurturing Resilience: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
Anna interviews holistic dentist, Dr Kayleigh Short where they discuss why dental health is so important generally for healthy humans and for people with chronic illness and chronic fatigue symptoms more specifically.
Often when faced with a chronic illness, like chronic fatigue, we can get caught up in supporting all of the body's systems that we forget to look inside the mouth. For stubborn cases that aren't improving, Dr Short suggests having a thorough work up with a holistic dentist who knows how to apply holistic dentistry and chronic fatigue syndrome.
They discuss common root (excuse the pun) causes of poor health that can originate in the mouth and how a comprehensive intake and examination process can help to reveal issues that may often be overlooked in the traditional dental model.
They cover heavy metals, root canals, TMJ and general day to day preventative care. If you feel curious about whether your dental health could be impacting some chronic symptoms, this episode is a must to listen to!
Find Kayleigh on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wholisticdentalcare
Wholistic Dental Website: https://wholisticdental.com/
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Sometimes in our Chronic Fatigue Journey we can be in a low place and it can be helpful to have some words of support and encouragement or even gentle insights which can help us reflect on why we might be feeling stuck.
That is what this episode is for...
There are times in your healing journey when you need to take action and times in your healing journey where you need to allow, give space and integrate. Spending too much time in one versus the other is not a recipe for success.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
The use of heat and cold can be supportive for health, but where do they factor in when it comes to fatigue recovery? How do we know when we are ready to add heat or cold stress to our healing routines? How can we do this safely to avoid energy crashes or post-exertional malaise?
All these questions and more are answered in the latest episode of the Chronic Fatigue and Burnout Recovery Podcast.
Hot and cold are two of several stressors known as "hormetic stressors". Hormetic stressors are stressors that, when applied in the appropriate dosage, can cause a positive adaptation in the body. Using heat and/or cold in the right dosage, can therefore, create positive changes that may be supportive for fatigue recovery. However, when applied in dosages that are not appropriate for the individual, there can be a negative adaptation, often experienced as an energy crash or symptom flare.
Therefore, knowing how and when the apply heat and cold stress appropriately, is what we cover in this episode. Unfortunately, there are no set protocols for heat and cold stress, so this episode will teach you how to work with your body to create a protocol for yourself!
Additional Resources:
Deliberate Heat Exposure Protocols From Huberman Lab
Use of Cold Exposure in Health and Performance
How To Create Stability in Chronic Fatigue
Energetically expensive personality traits are ways of being that cost us energy. Firstly the energy that we expend from being driven to operate outside of our capacity and secondly the energy from the hidden stress of denying our own authenticity.
In this episode Anna highlights some of the most important traits to be aware of and how they may show up in fatigue recovery. She talks about why these traits develop and why it is important to have a compassionate approach towards ourselves as we change them. She finishes with some suggestions around reprogramming these traits and some reflective journaling prompts that you can use to support you.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Eating enough protein is a conversation we end up having with almost all of our clients. Eating enough protein is a conversation we end up having with almost all of our clients. Protein is important for our blood sugar, immune system, antioxidant systems, detoxification systems and much much more! But how much is optimal and how do we know that we can digest and absorb it all? In this episode Anna talks about why we should be conscious of our protein intake, considerations for optimising digestion and absorption of protein, how much protein we need exactly and how she goes about getting enough in her day!
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Blood Sugar Mini Course: https://annamarsh.co.uk/courses/
A short episode with some words of wisdom to help you through the next crash or flare.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
There is never just ONE thing you need to do on your Chronic Fatigue Recovery journey. Instead it is the collective practise of multiple different things that slowly move the needle forward.
In this episode Anna talks through a list of 20 things to consider on your Chronic Fatigue Recovery Journey. This episode might be helpful if you are just getting started and looking for some things to focus on. It could also be useful as a personal check in, to help you acknowledge what you are doing well, what you could be doing better or what you haven’t considered yet.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Take the Nurturing Resilience Nervous System Self Paced Course: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
In this day and age, health is a privilege and recovering from a Chronic Illness can very quickly become an expensive business. In this episode Anna talks about how to heal when you have minimal or limited financial means. We talk about low cost and no costs actions that you can take to at the very least improve stability and increase quality of life. We talk about belief systems around what is possible and how the goal is to keep moving forward, one step at a time.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Take the Chronic Fatigue Recovery Quiz: https://app.annamarsh.co.uk/quiz
Take a Mini Course: https://annamarsh.co.uk/courses/
How do we manage our Chronic Fatigue Recovery and also make space for life itself? When you live with a chronic illness you always have less options and less choices than someone who is typically "healthy". Even more so, when you have a low energy health condition, where do you find the energy to shoulder the extra workload of healing alongside living!?
In this episode we talk about many of the challenges that people face when focussing on Chronic Fatigue Recovery (i.e. their health), responsibilities and also living! We discuss the importance of connecting with your life force energy, even when it is just a trickle! The importance of accepting and knowing what matters to you so that you can prioritise your time and energy into your view of a “normal life”. We discuss relating to others and managing their expectations and building confidence to do more as your body allows without going back to the old patterns that were unhelpful. This episode will help you to reflect on where you are in your journey, perhaps some things you are doing well and perhaps there are blindspots that could use your attention.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Join Nurturing Resilience: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
Is full recovery from Chronic Fatigue Possible? What does that mean? What does the journey look like and what does it entail? In episode 83 of the Chronic Fatigue and Burnout Recovery Podcast, Anna shares her thoughts on the idea of recovery.
This is a general discussion about the importance of recovery stories and believing in the potential of recovery. She talks about factors that impact the healing timeline and her own experience of recovery to date. She highlights the importance of acceptance and giving space to grief and why focussing on improving quality of life may be more supportive for the nervous system. This episode may help you to reflect on some of your attitudes and beliefs about your own recovery and offer some words of wisdom as you navigate your own journey.
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nervous system regulation is an important part of managing a Chronic Illness. No doubt, if you are having a chronic illness experience you have probably heard by now that you need to support your nervous system. But how do you do that? There seem to be so many different options available and it is hard to know what will work for you.
The reality is, when it comes to supporting the nervous system, there isn't a one size fits all approach. We want to find the ways that work best for our system and do more of what works! In this episode Anna talks about all the different options for nervous system regulation.
She shares some of her personal experiences with different modalities, what worked, what didn’t work and things that have helped her clients. She discusses pro’s and con’s of certain therapies and holds space for the fact that everyone heals a little differently and it is up to us to find what resonates best with our system.
If you know that nervous system regulation is a missing piece of your healing puzzle and you've felt confused about where to start or what therapies could be helpful for you, this episode will help you with some ideas to get the ball rolling.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Nurturing Resilience Program: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience/
The Nurturing Resilience Program is a self-study program which will teach you tools for nervous system regulation in a slow and manageable way. It is ideal for those who are experiencing chronic health conditions such as CFS/ME, Long Covid, POTS, Autoimmunity or other complex chronic illness.
Chronic Fatigue Recovery Stories can help us borrow hope and inspiration when we find it lacking in ourselves. This is why, after her own journey with ME/CFS, Raelan Agle created a YouTube Channel to show case the recovery stories of others and to inspire the belief that recovery is possible!
In this episode of the Chronic Fatigue and Burnout Recovery Podcast, Anna interviews Raelan about her own journey with CFS/ME and the lessons she learned along the way, in her words: Growth Bootcamp!
Raelan Agle lived with chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) for ten years before finally fully recovering. After countless fruitless doctor’s visits and tens of thousands of dollars spent without providing much relief from her illness, she eventually realised that she would have to look within herself and listen to her body to find her path back to health. And thankfully she did finally fully recover!
Since her recovery Raelan has become passionate about supporting others on their wellness journey. She is the author of Finding Freedom: Escaping from the Prison of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, has a popular YouTube channel sharing the recovery stories of others along with resources for health and healing, and online courses to support people on their health and happiness journey.
Useful links:
Raelan’s Website: https://raelanagle.com/
Raelan’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/raelanagle
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Apply for 1-1 Support: https://annamarsh.co.uk/1-1/
It is normal to experience ups and downs in your chronic fatigue recovery journey, but what do you do when you feel stuck, hit a plateau or lacking in progress. That is exactly what Anna covers in this episode. She discusses eight things you can reflect on and consider that may help you gain more traction and move the needle forward.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Apply for 1-1 Support: https://annamarsh.co.uk/1-1/
This is a guest expert interview with Zoe McKenzie where we discuss her book which has recently been published. Although the book title suggests it is for Autoimmunity, the pages are filled with wisdom on how to exercise if you have chronic illness, fatigue conditions included. We have a wonderful conversation where we discuss the work that I did with Zoe as her 1-1 client, belief systems about exercise, exercising with fatigue, exercising with pain, finding your baseline, adjusting your baseline when life happens and everything in between (plus plenty of analogies!).
Zoe McKenzie is a Physiotherapist, Exercise Coach and Clinical Pilates Instructor who created, Actively Autoimmune, an online exercise platform for those with chronic conditions. After experiencing health issues herself from a young age, Zoe has specialised in supporting clients around the world to find a way to move their body that works with them. She works with clients 1:1 as well as with an on-demand virtual Pilates studio. She has also recently published her book ‘Exercise Well with Autoimmunity’.
Useful links:
Website: https://www.activelyautoimmune.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/activelyautoimmuneBuy the book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Exercise-Well-Autoimmunity-Zoe-McKenzie/dp/139970852X/
Previous episodes on exercise:
Episode 27 - Building Exercise Tolerance and Capacity with Chronic Fatigue
Episode 26 - How to Exercise with Chronic Fatigue
Often in our practice we see autoimmunity come hand in hand with chronic fatigue. Not every case is an autoimmune case, but for those who do have autoimmunity, we want to consider how a dysregulated immune system is contributing to the picture of fatigue and how we can manage it.
In this episode Anna gives a high level view of the autoimmune management strategy that she uses in her practice which includes both simple and more complex strategies to support outcomes and improve quality of life.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Apply for 1-1 Support: https://annamarsh.co.uk/1-1/
Additional Resources:
Many women experience crashes, flares and setbacks around their menstrual cycle. The natural fluctuation in hormone levels can be destabilising to sensitive and unstable symptoms. Although we want to keep the whole picture of imbalance in mind, there are some tricks we can use to support the body around this unstable time. In this episode Anna covers her 3 top considerations for reducing symptoms, crashes and flares around menstruation
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Apply for 1-1 Support: https://annamarsh.co.uk/1-1/
Episode 35: https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-35-how-to-have-better-periods-with-cfs-me-part-1-what-does-a-healthy-cycle-look-like/
Episode 36: https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-36-how-to-have-better-periods-with-cfs-me-part-2-testing-your-hormones/
Episode 37: https://annamarsh.co.uk/podcast/episode-37-how-to-have-better-periods-with-cfs-me-part-3-supporting-your-hormones-naturally/
This week's episode is a guest interview with Harry Leeming the founder of the Visible app, an activity tracking tool to help people with chronic illness use data to empower their recovery and pace better. Harry was a young, healthy active individual who caught a “virus” and has never been the same since. He has turned his pain into purpose, using his background in engineering to build out an activity tracking app that is more appropriate for people with chronic illness than some of the traditional fitness trackers. He is doing incredible work in the world to progress the research in this area and you can get involved by downloading and using the app. But first, listen to the episode!
Useful links:
Get Visible: https://www.makevisible.com/
What is Heart Rate Variability (HRV)? How is it measured? Is it useful for Chronic Fatigue and can you improve it? These are all the questions that Anna answers in this week's episode where she shares her personal experience and clients’ experience with different devices and interventions.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Apply for 1-1 Support: https://annamarsh.co.uk/1-1/
If you have been experiencing a chronic illness, energy crashes and flares are familiar territory. What can make these events so distressing, especially early on in your journey, is not understanding what is happening and why. In this episode Anna explains the biochemistry of what is happening in an energy crash. She shares almost everything you need to know for fatigue recovery in a nutshell including the most important things to consider to make sure your energy crashes are few and far between.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Apply for 1-1 Support: https://annamarsh.co.uk/1-1/
All healing journey’s have their ups and downs and we need to make mistakes so that we can learn. Here are eight mistakes, which led to eight fantastic lessons that Anna experienced in her journey recovering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Apply for 1-1 Support: https://annamarsh.co.uk/1-1/Nurturing Resilience Workshop: https://annamarsh.co.uk/nurturing-resilience
Is it possible to recover your energy and vitality when you don’t know why you became unwell? Anna takes the time to address this question and offers a nuanced perspective that may be important for those that don’t know why they became unwell and for those that do!
We’ve all been there - you go to the doctor, they run some tests, the results come in and you are told that everything is normal. Yet, your body, you feel anything but normal. In this episode Anna talks about the difference between functional and diagnostic reference ranges, how you can get more from your blood work than what your doctor is telling you and functional testing options that she finds most useful to support her 1:1 Fatigue Recovery Clients.
Fatigue can be complex and multifaceted with many possible combinations of contributing factors and every case is different! In this episode Anna talks through the framework she uses in clinical practice to narrow down the causes of fatigue for each client.
Episode Shownotes
Who doesn’t love a recovery story? In this episode Anna talks from the heart and shares her journey recovering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Mold Illness. She shares both her personal and professional learnings that have shaped the framework she uses in her practice helping others make their own recoveries.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Fatigue Recovery Quiz: https://app.annamarsh.co.uk/quiz
BLOG
Episode 2 - My Fatigue Recovery Story
Hello, and welcome back to the fatigue and burnout recovery podcast. I am your host, Anna Marsh. In this episode, I'm going to share my fatigue recovery story. And just full disclosure, I haven't planned anything, I'm just going to talk freely and hopefully share from the heart.
Before I go into everything, I guess I wanted to say that often, for me personally, and maybe for many people as well, it can feel really self-indulgent, having this platform just to talk about yourself. So in some ways, I feel it can be quite cathartic to share one story. At the same time, there's a lot of self-judgment thinking; or who would be interested in this, and is this just a self-indulgent way to express myself? So I'm just going to go for it, I think. And what I would say is that every single person's story is different.
I know in my own recovery, I would read stories, maybe from other people, and listen to other recovery stories. I would think maybe there are certain stories that really resonated with me. And then there are parts of stories that maybe resonated with me.
Then there are other stories where I used to think, well, that person is 10 years younger than me, or that person had post-viral fatigue, and I didn't have post-viral fatigue, so it's not relevant to me.
I would encourage you if you're listening to this and you're committed to listening to the rest of this episode, to notice how you respond to the content and take what serves you, discard what doesn't, and come in with an element of curiosity, because there may be some lessons and insights which will help you reflect on your own story.
And there could be something in here today that helps you move the needle forward with your own fatigue recovery journey. So from my heart to yours, I just want to say that I really hope there is something here today that can be of value to you. And if not, hopefully, there will be more value in future episodes.
So the first thing that I guess I wanted to say and express was that I had my first fatigue experience quite young when I was nine years old. I had been doing my homework at the dining room table on a Sunday night. And then I lay down on the floor, and I just said, It's my mum, I can't, I'm too tired.
It wasn't that I was trying to get out of doing my homework like most nine-year-olds probably would be on a Sunday night. But there was just a feeling of lethargy and exhaustion in my body, which I suspect at the time was emotional. To a certain extent, obviously, at the time, I didn't know that there was a lot of family stress going on. My parents were separated and getting divorced.
There were some other dynamics going on in the home, which made life a little bit stressful. There was just a lot going on for a nine-year-old girl who maybe didn't know how to manage the emotional enormity of the situation. And nobody knew what was wrong with me. I took a month off school and went to various different doctors. I was eventually diagnosed, rightly or wrongly, I'll never know, with nephritis, which is inflammation of the kidneys.
I think I was put on a lot of antibiotics and medications, I had to take time out of school and rest. Eventually, I was building up my school hours. So I would go for the morning. Then I would go until lunchtime and eventually stay for the full school day. And I wasn't allowed to do any sports or anything like that.
So I did sort of recover over the course of six months, I had a relapse a few months later and just went through the same process again of resting and then building myself back up. And then all was well for a really long time. I was a very normal, maybe not even normal, probably very high achieving child, very a type personality, academic, high achieving in school, got good grades, all of that.
I was never really good at sports, but I enjoyed exercise, swimming and running, and aerobics classes. That's what fueled my interest in my first degree, Human Kinetics and Ergonomics. I had always had an interest in nutrition, because when I was diagnosed with nephritis, I was given some really bad advice, which was to eat lots of carbohydrates to increase my energy levels.
As you can imagine, the increase in carbohydrates ended up being donuts and ice cream, and packets of crisps. It wasn't very good for me. I probably gained about two stones over the course of a few months and went straight into puberty at nine years old. So there was also a lot of body image stuff, shall we say, thrown in the mix there. My body changed very quickly, it felt very out of control at a time in my life, where there was a lot of emotional change happening in the household.
I think I just wanted to lose weight and be a normal child. And because of that, I developed an interest in nutrition. So the plan was always from a young age to study nutrition. But that wasn't available in the hometown where I lived. My parents worked for the local university, and education was essentially free, which was a huge privilege. Therefore, it made sense for me to go to the local university and study Human Kinetics and Ergonomics, Sports Science, and Biochemistry, so that I can set up with the foundations.
So should I later want to do further nutrition studies? So that's what I did, had a very typical university lifestyle, lots of partying, lots of late night drinking, and not eating very well, but still very much interested in sport and still doing very well academically. But by the time those university years came to an end, I knew that nutrition was still my passion.
And the opportunities available in South Africa at the time were limited. I was off, I was busy completing my honors project. I was struck down with appendicitis. And I was bed bound in recovery after having my appendix removed. And so lying in bed, unable to do anything, or go anywhere.
I began thinking about the future and what I wanted to do next. I got on Google, and I started researching. I started to research nutrition courses in the UK. And I found the course that I really wanted to do, I just read the prospectus. I was like, this is everything that I've wanted to study my whole entire life. And little did I know at the time, it was based on functional medicine, or the functional medicine model.
So I'm very fortunate. My mum is English, my dad is South African, and I have a British passport. So the idea of moving to England to study wasn't as daunting as it would maybe be for someone else. So I had a call with the university. I made plans to start the course online distance learning from home for a year in South Africa. And then the year after that moved to the UK to complete the practical elements, the elements that couldn't be done via distance learning.
This was before zoom, and all the fantastic technology we have today. So this was 2007. I began that degree, quite a while ago now. I had to travel to the UK to do certain aspects. They used to post me DVDs of the content all the way to South Africa, because there was no online learning platform at that point in time.
Anyway, slight digression. So I moved to the UK in 2008. When you're young, you just make decisions, and you do things because you don't think so much about the consequences. I think that maybe in some ways, that's a good thing. Because you think more about what can go right as opposed to what can go wrong, and therefore you take risks and you take leaps of faith.
And that was definitely what I had done. But when I landed in the UK, there was also the reality of just finding somewhere to live or finding a job. The plan was that I would work as a personal trainer in a gym so that I had the flexibility to work and earn a living to support myself but then the flexible time.
If I needed to take a day off to attend a training or do coursework and I could study, in between and the hours when I wasn't working with clients, but it was a very full-on job because you work first thing in the morning sometimes until the last thing at night. So some days, I would leave the house at 5:30 in the morning, and I would get back at half past 9:10. And just sort of fall asleep, wake up and do it all over again.
So that was a huge strain that was starting to take its toll on my body. In addition to that, it's just stressful. I think living in a foreign country, which is culturally different, you don't have the support network or connections you might have in your own country.
Then the financial pressures of running your own business in a country where you don't have the support network, and you don't have the connections, and you're trying to study, all on top of that. So there was a lot going on. And the signs definitely started to show in my body, and had a lot of IBS-type symptoms.
I think given all the antibiotics I took due to the supposed nephritis diagnosis as a child, my gut has always probably been a bit of a weak point. And there are a lot of IBS symptoms, brain fog, hormonal imbalances, my skin, which has never, I've never had bad skin, but my skin was just starting to break out a little bit more, and just extreme fatigue. It wasn't enough, I think, to be called chronic fatigue syndrome at that point in time.
But I was tired. I was very, very tired. Life was hard. And it was a slog. But fortunately, I was studying health, I was studying nutrition, and I was learning about functional medicine, even though I didn't know it at the time.
I was able to start to do things to support my body, I was able to balance my blood sugar, I was able to take supplements to support my digestion, and I used herbs to support my adrenal glands. I worked on lifestyle components. So I found a place to live where I felt that I could be more settled and more rested. And as time went on, I built those important support connections that we all as human beings need.
And it did take some time. It took a good, I'm just thinking it was sort of 2009, 2008, 2009 through probably until 2011. So good two or three years to really find my feet and cultivate a good stable sense of energy and well-being again.
That also came hand in hand with me discovering CrossFit in the very early days before CrossFit was so mainstream. And I loved it, it really appealed to my competitive nature. I would push myself very hard physically.
And it was fantastic. From the community aspect. I made so many friends and connections and I really felt like I was part of something, which is something very important that had been missing when I first moved to London. I think it was also really, really intense. I would frequently get a bit run down and get some colds and flus, I think my immune system was still a little bit compromised at the time.
I remember I was just about to do my first big CrossFit competition, and I had been training so hard for this competition. And then, the week before, I was just struck down with the most awful flu. And honestly, I don't think I have been that ill since that day, it was a proper flu with body pain, and fever and fatigue, and all of those things that we would associate with the full-blown flu.
Obviously, it's not nice to have the flu, it's not nice to have those experiences. But actually, the ability of the body to generate a strong fever is a sign of a healthy and robust immune system. So there's a reason why I share this is because I had that flu, or I got that flu on a Sunday, and I was due to compete by the Saturday.
And by Saturday, I was feeling okay, but I wasn't fully recovered. I pushed my body to complete the competition because I had been training so hard for it. I didn't want to not compete. But in hindsight, which is always 2020, I think back now, and I think I probably was like a small beginning of the end because I think I pushed my body too hard when it wasn't ready.
I remember it taking quite a few weeks after that competition for me to feel like I could train again and like I could exercise again. Then from that point in time, I'd say the wheels started to come off a little bit, and I started to develop some niggling injuries. By the end of that year, I remember taking time off for Christmas, and I had mouth ulcers and aches and pains in my body, and I just wasn't feeling very good. So there were those niggling symptoms creeping back in.
And it was nothing major, nothing. When you're busy, young, and doing things, you just sweep these things under the rug, and you keep on going. And it wasn't something that was impacting my life in a huge way.
So I just kept on going. Then I was offered the opportunity to do my master's degree in personalized nutrition. I took that opportunity up. And so again, I was working, and I was studying. And it was things that I enjoyed, but it was still a lot to be taking on.
Then additionally, I was training very hard. So that went on for a period of time, and I met my now husband Ben, and we decided that we wanted to move to where I live now, which is the southwest coast of England. And 2014, we decided to make the move, I had just finished my master's.
I had been working on taking my business online to prepare for the move because prior to that, I'd had a very physical in-person practice. Now I needed to take things online so that I would still have a job as we moved. So that all happened. And in some ways, that was a really great move. I love being on the southwest coast, I love living by the beach, I was never really into the big city.
I think that was something that was also quite a lot of stress and strain on my nervous system. But at the same time, there were a lot of additional challenges that came with taking my business online, there was new technology that I needed to learn, and there's this idea, your work is always just there on your laptop or your phone. And it's very easy to be available to people all the time.
I had invested all of my savings in working with a business mentor because I realized I didn't know what I was doing. I needed help. So although that was a fantastic investment, it really helped me grow my business and achieve a lot of business success. There was also a lot of pressure to make things work. And I was learning so much so quickly growing so much so quickly.
And it was amazing. But at the same time, it was also just a lot. That was probably the trend for the next couple of years. So at that point in time, because of my background in fitness, I started an online weight loss program. And the program was really successful.
I think in the best year in business, we turned over 180,000 pounds. That was with a small team. So there I had an assistant, full time assistant and sales representative who worked for me, I had a coach who worked with me, I had a you know, various contractors, designers, someone who helped me with Facebook ads, various bits and bobs.
And it was also investing a lot of the money that was being made back into the business and also into my own education and skill set. So I was running this business and traveling to America to do my functional medicine training. Also, running retreats, traveling to Italy and Bali, and upholding the business day to day was also a lot of pressure.
And so there was just so much going on. I think even though the business was earning good money and felt like just as soon as the money was coming in, it was also going out. Therefore I constantly felt financial scarcity.
There was always pressure every month to make sure we onboard enough new clients to keep the machine keep feeding the machine of the business. I think that was a really big thing that started to take its toll on my body. At the same time as traveling internationally with jet lag, I was pushing myself very hard in the gym.
And there was an emotional component to running the business as well. I was working with women who wanted to lose weight, a lot of them are really struggling with their bodies their body image and as someone who is very highly sensitive and caring, and it was a lot to hold those emotional experiences of others. Because that was actually something that I still needed to learn to do for myself.
Often, when we run our own business, it shows us the lessons we need to learn. I had a lot of lessons I needed to learn around. I still do have a lot of lessons I need to learn about pleasing people, setting good boundaries, work-life balance, and taking on the emotional energies of other people.
So all those things were also invisible stresses the inability to set boundaries and constantly trying to help others at the expense of my own self-care. And people-pleasing, poor boundaries, all of that, that was something that was silently also creating wear and tear on my system. So I had the financial stress, those hidden emotional stresses, the stress of travel and disruption to my circadian rhythms, imbalances that were probably niggling away at my body from before, like gut imbalances.
Then the stress of just pushing myself hard in the gym and training very hard. And throughout this whole time I ate well, so it wasn't like I had a bad diet, I was definitely eating well to support my body. When I wasn't straddling time zones, I was good at making my sleep a priority.
I slept well. I was into yoga, I was into meditation. And I found Joe Dispenza in 2017. And I love Joe Dispenza. And I would do his hour-long meditations. I attended his three day retreat.
So it wasn't like I wasn't taking care of myself. There was a lot that I was doing to support my body. But there was also a lot of stress on my body. And something that I also probably now only realize in hindsight, is I think, when we first moved down to poor Bournemouth in 2014, we temporarily lived in a home, which I think possibly had mold. And it's actually from that point in time, that I started to get these little niggles of fatigue, and feeling a little bit more flu, like after training a little bit too hard.
I'll never know for sure. But I wonder if I had put it down to the stress of everything going on at the time. But I wonder if that's when I had mold exposure, which also had a bout of some sort of gastric flu about the same time. Then it was my whole system, I like to think of it as circling the drain.
So my system began to circle the drain from that point onwards, and I wasn't ignoring my body completely. I did various testing, took supplements, and working on supporting my gut. But what I didn't have at the time was a framework for really understanding what was going on.
I'll talk about this framework in more detail in future episodes. And what I know now from what I say with my clients is that when someone experiences chronic fatigue and burnout, it's usually because the system is being worn down over time. There's often one big thing, which is the straw that breaks the camel's back, but not always.
Often, it's a collection of things. This collection of things is essentially what I'm sharing with my story as I share it with you. So you can understand my unique connection or collection of things. But your collection may look totally different. Once we've got these sorts of different things which are wearing down the system over time, it's like dominoes.
So different body systems begin to become dysfunctional because it's trying to make adjustments so that you can continue going so that you can cope, and so that you can survive. And so that's where these little clues come in, like the digestive imbalances, the hormone imbalances, the immune system niggles, they're all just little signs, which are showing you that your body needs some attention and care. Unfortunately, I couldn't see the bigger picture of all of the loads on my body.
Therefore I was just going in at the sort of surface level and thinking, Oh, well, I'll fix my gut, or I'll take some supplements for my adrenal glands. Instead of thinking, Whoa, there's a lot of pressure on me here. What do I need to change within myself?
And what do I need to change in terms of lifestyle and business that will really support my body? I just tried to put bandaids or plasters over the wounds instead of really getting to the bottom of what was going on. So this pattern continued for a number of years.
Then I remember in 2016, it had been a really big year for me. I had gotten married, I had done various international travel, and Ben and I were in the process of buying our first flat. I just got back from a trip to Japan.
So lots of jetlags. I just never felt the same after that trip. I started to just feel really fatigued, and foggy, and just demotivated, which wasn't like me at all, I was a very high energy driven person, very focused, and then just didn't have that anymore.
But it wasn't that bad. It's just like, waxed and waned and waxed and waned, and I'd go back to the gym, take some time off, or do too much. I'd feel really foggy and inflamed, but then I'd rest a bit, and it will be okay for a bit.
So I was just keeping on going, but never taking that big step back to see the bigger picture and say, what is really going on here? I thought I had it all sorted, I was eating well, I was sleeping well, and I was doing loads of meditation and yoga, but just nothing seemed to be giving me the real traction that I needed. So that was 2016.
This pattern continued through 2017 and 2018. Each year, just getting back a little bit worse and a little bit worse. Then eventually, at the beginning of 2019, I went to Sri Lanka, I took a month out of my business, which was a really big deal for me.
I spent a month in Sri Lanka doing my yoga teacher training. That was an incredible experience I had, I was mindful of this tendency towards fatigue, but actually taking the month out being in the sunshine, the fresh air, meeting wonderful people, and just doing yoga was really good for me. My diets weren't very good because of what was available at the time.
My sleep wasn't very good, I think because of my diet. But otherwise, the experience was really positive. But when I came back, and then I almost felt like I've taken all of this timeout, and I really need to hit the ground running, and do everything and get back into the business and start earning money again, then that's when the wheels just started to fall off.
I just couldn't seem to cope with reentering my life as it was. Eventually, that's when I went to the doctor, I had the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome printed out from the NHS website. I knew it was a new hat, and I had pretty much all of them.
I just didn't know what to do. I just felt like I needed some help. And being trained in functional medicine and nutritional therapy. I did feel a little bit skeptical about going to the doctor and what they could do to help me, but it was also really scary to be experiencing what I was experiencing and not really know what to do and where to turn because I felt like I was doing so much or really just supporting my body.
And so went to the doctor ugly cried in the doctor's office. She was very sweet. She said are you experiencing a bit of stress right now? And I was like, No, I'm not stressed. Classic.
You know, I was completely disconnected from what was really going on. I was very stressed, and obviously, experiencing that experience is inherently stressful. Anyway, the doctor ran some tests. And this will be very familiar to all of you, which is pretty much normal. They would like one or two markers that were off, I think maybe like my neutrophils or white blood cells, one of the full blood count markers.
Then just to come back in six to eight weeks and retested, everything was fine. At that point in time, I almost jumped ship on the diagnosis process because I think when you're overwhelmed with what's happening to your body, you have to show up at appointments and advocate for yourself to get the appointments and get tested. I just felt like I didn't need to know that this is a thing or that I have this thing.
I don't need this diagnosis to begin to move forward with my health. So I decided to work with a contact I met through my functional medicine training. I had developed a friendship with a wonderful woman, Dr. Lacey Cheadle, who had an autoimmune condition and fatigue associated with that autoimmune condition.
And she was thriving. So I reached out to her and said, I think I need your help. So we began to work together. And the work that we did together was invaluable. She really just helped me with a lot of my blind spots.
So although I was trained in functional medicine, I was trained as a nutritional therapist, and I had more than a decade of experience at this point in time. We all have blind spots, we all have the things that we can't see for ourselves, and it takes somebody outside of us to help us see those things, I learned so much from her professionally because different practitioners have different levels of experience in different areas and different skill sets. And it was really expensive for me, not just personally in my fatigue recovery but in my own sort of professional growth as a professional.
So that first year from 2019 to 2020, I actually did really, really well. I was progressing, and things were heading in the right direction. But at the end of the year, for a short period of time, about two or three months, I ended up living in my mom's flat while she was back in South Africa. And at that point in time, I didn't know it at the time, I think I had another mold exposure.
Episode Shownotes
Welcome to the Chronic Fatigue and Burnout Recovery Podcast. Your host, Anna Marsh, introduces herself and explains what you can expect from listening to the show. Anna is a Trauma-informed Functional Medicine Nutritional Therapist who has been working in the health industry for more than 2 decades.
However, when her health began to circle the drain and she was eventually diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) she realised there was so much she didn’t know she didn’t know about health generally and fatigue specifically.
In her fatigue recovery she realised there weren’t that many useful podcasts dedicated purely to fatigue recovery. A lot of the information available on social media platforms was either from people who had recovered, but didn’t have the scientific background, people who had the scientific background but not the personal experience of the debilitating effects of fatigue or people who were nervous system centred, but without the deep understanding of where Functional Medicine meets trauma-informed care.
Anna’s goal for this podcast is to offer all of the above; a deep understanding of what is happening in the body’s of those experiencing fatigue from a Functional Medicine and Trauma-informed lens delivered by someone who has walked in the shoes of those whose lives have been affected by chronic illness and fatigue conditions.
Useful links:
Website: http://annamarsh.co.uk/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_marsh_nutrition/
Fatigue Recovery Quiz: https://app.annamarsh.co.uk/quiz
BLOG
Episode 1 - Welcome to the Chronic Fatigue and Burnout Recovery Podcast
Welcome to the chronic fatigue and burnout recovery podcast. I am your host Anna Marsh, a trauma-informed Functional Medicine and nutritional therapist, which I appreciate is a bit of a mouthful.
I just wanted to create this introduction episode today to talk to you a little bit about the podcast, and a teeny tiny bit about myself, so that you can know what to expect. And if it's appropriate to keep on listening, I'll be sharing a much more detailed account of my own fatigue recovery story in the next episode, but for today, I thought I would keep it brief and just share some of the bare bones back.
So I have been practicing now as a nutritional therapist since 2009. Over time, I've also done my certification with the Institute of functional medicine.
Although my master's degree is in personalized nutrition, if you can hear a little tinge of my accent, I am South African. I grew up in South Africa and did my first degree in South Africa, in what was called Human Kinetics and Ergonomics, which I usually say to people is the same as Sports Science and Biochemistry.
I have a lot of training in the human body and its workings. I have a lot of experience working with clients physically. So while studying for my nutrition degree, I worked as a personal trainer. And I have a lot of experience working with clients clinically, using functional medicine to help them get well.
And despite all this experience and knowledge about health and how the human body works, I was not invincible. In 2019, I hit my health rock button or my energy crisis. I was eventually diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome. When I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, probably like anyone diagnosed with a chronic health condition, I begin to search for more information.
Of course, I was at an advantage because I already had a background in health and was already connected to various people, practitioners, and thinking frameworks.
So maybe it was a little bit easier to find the information, but I found having a lived experience of chronic fatigue. Combining that with what I knew from professional practice made my professional practice so much more powerful. It helps me understand that unless you've lived through the trauma of having a chronic illness or burnout, it's tough to understand what that's like.
And yet when I was searching for podcasts and information to help me understand the condition better and why I couldn't exercise and keep on getting this post-exertional malaise and all the extra challenges that we experienced that we don't fully understand and know how to address. There were hardly any podcasts available on chronic fatigue syndrome specifically.
I found that those that were available were either episodes created from more episodes created by practitioners who were sharing information about the condition but didn't necessarily have a lived experience of the condition, or some people had experienced the condition but didn't necessarily have that much more profound, practical scientific and biochemistry knowledge that I needed to understand and work through what I was going through entirely. And those people do not diminish their experience.
I also found that the shared information was mostly just a surface level. And I wanted to go deep. So that's what I hope this podcast will share with you.
I hope this podcast will bring a combination of that lived experience and a deeper scientific understanding of what's going on in your body and how you can address it. Not just the basic stuff at the surface level, but understand the nuance and complexity of what may be happening in your body.
Since having this chronic fatigue experience and sharing more about it online, I have attracted clients who are also going through the same thing. And I have the privilege and the honor of working with women with all types of fatigue conditions. Whether that is burnout, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and all the nuances in between. And I run many tests on my clients and see many test results.
There are similarities in every case, yet every case can be very special and unique and need its own approach. And therefore, my job is to tease out what each person needs based on how they're doing at the moment because sometimes we can also need the same things. But our nervous system isn't necessarily ready to implement and apply those things at that specific time.
So really, what I'm trying to say and trying to communicate is that there's a broad range of interventions that we can use to support burnout, and we can use to support chronic fatigue or chronic fatigue syndrome and other complex energy conditions.
Different things work for different people. Some things are inappropriate for some people. And some things are universal. We all want to pay attention to some things as we work towards better health, more energy, thriving, and aliveness.
That is why I hope this podcast will bring to you a combination of the science, the nuance within the science, and lived experience perspective. And then finally, something I haven't touched on yet, which is the trauma-informed piece, is also combining this with an understanding of the nervous system, and how we need to work within the capacity of the nervous system to make the interventions required to heal and become fully well and fully thrive.
So I hope you will enjoy the journey with me. I have done podcasts before with a co-host, but this is my first time as a solo host. So it does feel a little bit weird sitting here talking to myself. But I hope to bring you some fantastic content over the next few weeks, months, and hopefully years.
And I would love it if you could subscribe to the podcast. The intention is to release a weekly episode. So you can get that in your app, inbox, or wherever these things go on a weekly basis.
Leave a review if you'd like the content because podcasts are generally found and ranked based on reviews and downloads.
So if you are enjoying what I'm sharing, leaving a review helps other people find these podcasts, and then the podcasts can help them, too. So that is everything for me today.
In the next episode, I'll talk a lot more about my personal story as we kick off all the information and everything to come.
I'll see you in the next episode.