Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus: Recent Episodes
outerbrightness
The Outer Brightness Podcast is an ongoing respectful conversation between friends about their transition out of the LDS Church to faith in Jesus alone for salvation. We don't agree on everything, and that's okay. Join us!
This week, we bring you the first of two Christmas episodes. This one is a reading of a Christmas essay that I (Paul) wrote for my fmaily when I was near the end of my time in the LDS Church. I thought that it would be interesting for me and you (our listeners) to revisit it.
In the essay, I reference Jimmy Stewart's masterful acting in Mr. Krueger's Christmas. If you haven't seen that movie, check it out here:
https://youtu.be/oonebld1IoE?feature=shared
We hope that you enjoy this episode and your holidays with your friends and family. Merry Christmas!
This episode, we welcomed Daniel Ortner on the program. Daniel has a very interesting story. He was raised in an ethnically Jewish family and converted to Mormonism. In 2023, he began attending a Christian church with his wife and ended up leaving the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for faith in Christ alone.
Daniel is passionate about the Epistle to the Galatians. He joined us to talk about a commentary he wrote about it. We dive deep into the teachings of the apostle Paul contained in that letter.
More about Daniel. He is an attorney at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). You can learn more about his work there by clicking here. His blog is Boasting in Christ Alone. An you can find his Galatians commentary that we discuss in this episode here.
We liked Daniel so much that we had him back on to debrief a debate he had about the doctrine of Sola Scriptura on the For the Love of God channel. So look forward to that, fireflies!
In this episode, we welcome Jonathan Stoddard to Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. Pastor Jon ministers at Jordan Valley Church (Presbyterian Church in America) in West Jordan Utah where I (The Apostate Paul) grew up. He has written a very helpful and accessible book titled, Choosing a Church: A Biblical and Practical Guide aimed at helping those, particularly of an LDS background in navigating finding a new church home after leaving the LDS Faith.
We talk with Pastor Jon about his book, why the search for a new church home has some unique challenges for former Latter-day Saints, the differences between creeds and confessions, what a confessional church is and how it worships, church membership, and Christian baptism.
One book I (The Apostate Paul) read on pastoral ministry when I was attending seminary was called They Smell Like Sheep by Dr. Lynn Anderson. He makes the case that those who are ministering in the way Jesus intended are shepherds, and shepherds smell like sheep. I think you'll find through our discussion with Pastor Jon and through his book, that he smells like his sheep because he gets into the pasture with his flock to know and understand them, and feeds them with the Word of God.
This week we bring you another special guest episode. Kyle Beshears is a pastor in the Mobile, Alabama area and a scholar of Christianity. In his scholarly work, Kyle engages with the broader Latter Day Saint Restoration Movement, and in particular with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day [no hyphen, capital ‘D’] Saints, or the branch of the LDS Movement that followed James J. Strang after the death of Joseph Smith. I (The Apostate Paul) first met Kyle when I went on Steven Pynakker’s Mormon Book Reviews YouTube channel to discuss our book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Confident Conversations with Mormon Missionaries (and Other Latter-day Saints). Steve had invited Kyle on as a co-host for our author panel discussion of the book, and based on some of Kyle’s comments and some conversations he and I had afterwards, I thought it would be interesting to have Kyle on to discuss what it looks like to have effective dialogue with those from the LDS Restoration Movement.
You can learn more about Kyle at https://kylebeshears.com/.
His article that we discuss in this episode is available here:
https://kylebeshears.com/content/unobvious-differences
This week we're publishing a crossover episode. Several coauthors of the book, Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Confident Conversations with Mormon Missionaries (and other Latter0day Saints) appeared on Steve Pynakker's Mormon Book Reviews YouTube program. Represented here are Corey Miller, president and CEO of Ratio Christi (ratiochristi.org), Ross Anderson, pastor at Alpine Church and executive director of Utah Advance Ministries, the Apostate Paul, and Joel Fauver.
Kyle Beshears, a pastor in Mobile, Alabama, joined Steve as his cohost for this panel discussion. We hope you enjoy this episode and that it is helpful to you in your journeys.
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I continue our discussion from last week regarding feed back we received to our Apostles Creed episode.
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and The Apostate Paul share a conversation they originally had in March of 2022. After discussing an LDS Church sign in that was posted in Arizona, they begin a discussion of the "harrowing of hell" clause in the Apostle's Creed. Latter-day Saint teaching is that between Jesus' death and resurrection, he visited "spirit prison" to begin a program of missionary work in the "spirit world" so that those who died without hearing the gospel can accept it after death. We received some pushback on our episode on the Apostle's Creed. Some Latter-day Saints suggested that our theology wouldn't allow us to accept the line in the Apostle's Creed that Christ "descended into hell." This episode and the next is our response to that claim.
In this episode, Matthew and I revisit an old criticism of the LDS Faith. Namely, that Latter-day Saints worship Joseph Smith. We tackle it by comparing and contrasting with a similar critique that Protestants sometimes make about Roman Catholics with regards to their veneration of Mary. Thus, the Joseph & Mary Chain, a play on the name of the Scottish Rock band, The Jesus & Mary Chain.
We ask and discuss:
1. When we talk about worshipping God, what do we mean by the word “worship”?
2. Do Catholics worship Mary? If yes, in what ways?
3. Do Mormons worship Joseph Smith? If yes, in what ways?
4. What about the Hymn “Praise to the Man?”
Some will certainly be surprised by our answers. All we ask is that you listen and not prejudge. God bless you.
In this episode we respond to some listener feedback that we received to our Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God episodes (#s 98 & 99). Go give those a listen if you haven't already.
A Latter-day Saint listener named David wrote in to challenge and interact with some of the things we said in that episode and with Jonathan Edwards' sermon. We take the time to respond to David's eamil here.
In this episode, Paul spoke with Rich Hoyer, Senior Minister at Calvary Christian Church in Sellersburg, Indiana. This is Rich's second appearance on Outer Brightness. He joined us previously on Episode 70, "The Importance of Christian Apologetics."
Rich wrote a book titled So You Think You Understand Christianity?: Teaching Christianity to a Culture That's Saturated With Misconceptions.Paul and Rich discussed the why Rich wrote the book and its contents, as well as some similarities and differences between Calvinism and Arminianism.
Rich is also involved in the Reveal Conference, an annual conference presenting Christian apologetics. Learn more at https://reveal-truth.com/
In this episode, Matthew and I continue our conversation of LDS beliefs regarding the omnipresence of God. In this part, we discuss various LDS views of God's omnipresence, the impact of God's omnipresence on practical (lived) theology, and some the Bible passages that touch on God's being present everywhere.
In this episode we welcome Ross Anderson to Outer Brightness. Ross joined us to discuss his chapter in our book, Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message.
Ross was born in Utah and was raised LDS. After leaving Mormonism as a young adult, he earned a Master of Divinity degree and a Doctor of Ministry degree. Anderson has served as a church planter and pastor in Utah for four decades. He taught at Salt Lake Theological Seminary and served as a denominational church planting director for the region. Ross is currently a teaching pastor at Alpine Church. He is the executive director of Utah Advance Ministries and founder of the Faith after Mormonism project and the Culture-Wise podcast. Ross is author of Understanding the Book of Mormon, Understanding Your Mormon Neighbor, and Jesus without Joseph – a study guide for former Mormons.
When I [the Apostate Paul] was an Mormon missionary in Hungary, teaching people who were investigating the LDS Church, I memorized the missionary discussions that I would share with them. In describing LDS beliefs about God, I would say, “Isten tökéletes. Ő mindentudó és mindenható.” Translated into English, that means, “God is perfect. He is all-knowing (omniscient) and all-powerful (omnipotent).”
Our listeners who are versed in classical Christian theology will notice that in that description, there is an attribute of God that is missing. In this episode and the next, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I talk about the missing Mormon omni. And no, we’re not talking about the wicked prophet character in the Book of Mormon who supposedly wrote a mere 3 verses but moved the plot forward 276 years. We’re talking about Omnipresence.
Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist sat down with Michael a.k.a. The ex-Mormon Apologist to chat with him about his article, "Understanding Grace, Misunderstanding Mormonism: A Critique of Brad Wilcox's 'His Grace is Sufficient'."
Michael's article can be found on fromwatertowine.org here:
Understanding Grace, Misunderstanding Mormonism:
A Critique of Brad Wilcox's "His Grace is Sufficient"
Brad Wilcox's speech can be found on BYU's website here:
His Grace Is Sufficient
In this episode, Matthew and I discuss the role of the church in interpreting Scripture. Is there a magesterium that holds unique authority to interpret the Bible? How does this question relate to Mormonism?
Hi fireflies! Matthew and I have finally returned. In this episode we talk about a book project that we both worked on, providing chapters to the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Confident Conversations with Mormon Missionaries (and Other Latter-day Saints). The book is published by Aneko Press and is out now, available direct from the publisher or from Amazon.
Order "Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message" at the following locations:
Aneko Press (Publisher): https://anekopress.com/product/respon...
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Responding-Mor...
In this episode, we welcome a listener, Sarah Bateman to Outer Brightness. She recently shared with us that she has listened to about 2,400 minutes of the podcast. She joined us to talk share her experiences meeting with LDS missionaries and sharing the good news with them. She also posed some questions to us to get our insights as former LDS missionaries into how best to reach those young men and women with the biblical gospel of Jesus Christ.Coinciding with this episode we are running a giveaway of five copies of Micah Wilder's book, "Passport to Heaven: The True Story of a Zealous Mormon Missionary Who Discovers the Jesus He Never Knew." To receive this book for free, navigate to our Outer Brightness Facebook discussion group, find the post for this episode, and be one of the first five to request a copy.
“Lions, and tigers, and bears. Oh my!”
Textus Receptus, and Modern Critical Text, and Comma Johanneum. Oh my!
The Apostate Paul, here. No sooner had I began attending a Christian church back in 2010, and declared myself an “ex-Mormon Christian” online did Latter-day Saints begin to challenge my belief in the Bible as the reliable Word of God. I quickly learned of critical Biblical scholars like Bart Ehrman, and had to bone up on terms like those above. I had to try to make sense of the many debates around text-types, and the impacts they have on English translations of the Bible. As I did so, I wondered how my former co-religionists were so knowledgeable on these topics when they were fairly new to me. Was it because I didn’t attend BYU? Is that where they learned to use such tactics to bolster the LDS claim to additional Scripture?
As I studied, I reached tentative conclusions that I discussed with others on Facebook as these issues came up. “So the Comma Johanneum isn’t in the earliest manuscripts, does that necessarily mean that it was an intentional corruption of the text? And even if it isn’t original, so what? Textual criticism can trace to where it seems to have been introduced in the transmission of the text.” When I did so, I was challenged vigorously by a KJV-only Christian.
It was a veritable mine field to try to navigate as a new Christian trying to defend his faith against volleys from Mormon online apologists. I struggled to get my mind around the breadth of the topic of textual criticism. Part of the answer for me was to attend a Christian Seminary to seek a degree in Biblical Studies. Not everyone can do that.
In this episode we welcome Dwayne Green to help listeners get the lay of the land regarding this topic. He’s very knowledgeable and has a YouTube Channel that is very helpful. Follow him if you want to dig deeper into topics related to textual criticism of the Bible.
https://www.youtube.com/@Dwayne_Green
In this episode, we welcome Sandra Tanner to the podcast. She joined us earlier this year to discuss her transition from Mormonism to Christianity. Many who go through an LDS faith crisis end up jettisoning Christianity and religion altogether. We asked Sandra to talk about why she kept Christianity after deconstructing Mormonism.
It was a pleasure to have Sandra on Outer Brightness, and to have had the opportunity to meet her in person at the Utah Lighthouse Ministry Bookstore in Salt Lake City in September.
Hey Fireflies! Long time no post. Big apologies. In this episode, Matthew and I give an update on what's been going on in our busy lives and talk about the relaunch of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus.
We're glad to be back, and hope to hear from you soon!
Do Latter-day Saints hate the creeds of historic Christianity? Do they have their own creed? What about the Apostles’ Creed, which historian Philip Schaff has called the “creed of creeds”? Justin S. Holcomb in his book Know the Creeds and Councils has written, “Perhaps more than any other profession of faith, the Apostles’ Creed has expressed the essentials of Christianity in a way that Christians of all stripes can rally around.” Could Mormons agree with each article of that creed without hesitation? We discuss these things and more in this episode.
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul comment on a debate (?) held on November 13, 2021 between the three amigos of the YouTube channel, Midnight Mormons, and Radio Free Mormon. The video has been posted to the Heart of the Matter, the Midnight Mormons, and the Mormon Discussion, Inc. podcast channels and, to date, has racked up 43K views. The pre-debate drama was amped up, perhaps purposefully to draw an audience, and the fireworks continued during the debate. It was not a formal debate, and the participants went off-format for much of the evening, leaving Matthew and I asking whether this was in fact a debate. We comment on that and several of the points made by each side.
Link to the debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU0LSzicsT4
This episode we finish our discussion of the LDS Gospel Topics Essay, "Mother in Heaven." Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist kicks off the episode with a question about why the doctrine of a Mother in Heaven is considered authoritative doctrine when the direct support for it amounts to hearsay that Joseph Smith taught it along with the fact that it made it into an LDS Hymn. He notes that the doctrine that Adam was God has been declared to be heresy by subsequent LDS leaders even though Brigham Young taught it and claimed that Joseph Smith taught it. We hope that the rest of this conversation is helpful.
This is our 100th episode, and we have a special treat for you fireflies! Michael dropped by Outer Brightness to discuss the LDS Gospel Topics Essay on the LDS doctrine of a Mother in Heaven. In this first part of the conversation, they discuss how they viewed thsi doctrine when they were LDS and whether or not they felt an affinity for the doctrine. Finally, they discuss each of the passages from LDS canon that are cited in the essay as supportive of the doctrine.
This episode, we kicked off our “Things Mormons Hate” series, in which Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul discuss Jonathan Edwards’ important sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” There are two parts to our discussion. In this second part, we discuss our thoughts about Edwards’ sermon and include a reading of the sermon. We hope you enjoy this conversation and presentation of “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” If you are outside of Christ, flee to the mountain!
This episode, we kick off our short, “Things Mormons Hate” series. Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul discuss Jonathan Edwards’ important sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” There are two parts to our discussion. In this first part, we talk about our understanding of God’s wrath when we were LDS, passages in LDS canon that reference the wrath of God, how we understand the wrath of God juxtaposed with the love of God, the danger of a theology that focuses solely on the love of God, people in church history who have attempted to create theologies that separate the love of God from the justice of God, and whether or not there are people today who seek to do the same. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul discuss the proof texts that are used within Latter-day Saint teachings regarding the LDS testimony. They ask questions of the texts, such as:
- Are they being used in context?
- What might they mean if they mean something different than how they are used in LDS teachings?
Come along with us for the ride.
Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul were invited by our friend Jeremy Howard to go on the Do Theology Podcast to answer some blunt questions. This is the second part of that interview.
Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul were invited by our friend Jeremy Howard to go on the Do Theology Podcast to answer some blunt questions. This is the first part of that interview. In this installment, Jeremy asks us to revisit our transitions out of the LDS Church, and then asks us if we really experienced a burning in the bosom in our efforts to gain a testimony of the LDS Church and the Book of Mormon.
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul wrap up their conversation with Aaron Shafovaloff. Here they discuss a number of dilemmas that Aaron has documented but not yet written into article form. Our goal here is to think through LDS theology, taking it out to its logical conclusions. We hope you enjoy this episode.
This week we continue our discussion with Aaron Shafovaloff about his article Dilemmas of Mormon Exaltation. We cover wrap up a dicussion of his second dilemma, "2. Expanding Godhead vs. overlapping godheads" and cover his fourth dilemma "4. Exhaustible vs. infinite pool of coeternal intelligences," and wrap up with his thrid dilemma "3. Shared vs. independent dominion between gods."
This week Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul welcome Aaron Shafovaloff to Outer Brightness. He joined us to discuss his article “Dilemmas of Mormon Exaltation.” Aaron spent nearly three hours with us, and we’re excited to share these with you. In this first installment, we introduce Aaron and his article and discuss the first dilemma he enumerates and begin a discussion of the second.
In this episode, The Apostate Paul and Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist welcome Latter-day Saint, Jaxon Washburn, back to Outer Brightness. They discuss Episode 37 "The Humanity and Divinity of Jesus Christ" from Y Religion, the podcast of the BYU Religion Department. In that episode, Professor Jason Combs is interviewed about an article he wrote. Jaxon sent us the podcast episode and we thought it would be a good opportunity to discuss the differences and similarities between LDS and Christian views on this topic. We hope you enjoy this conversation!
In this episode, we welcome a Latter-day Saint guest to Outer Brightness. Tarik D. LaCour is a PhD candidate in Philosophy at Texas A&M University. In this second installment of our conversation with Tarik, we discuss the LDS view of eternal laws that are external to God, and ask Tarik what he thinks about the Christian view that morality is rooted in God’s perfect nature. We also discuss the Trinity and ask Tarik what other moral or philosophical questions about non-LDS Christian beliefs he thinks are the most difficult for LDS to understand or make it difficult for them to embrace. Thank you for joining us.
You can connect with Tarik on Facebook and request access to his blog:
http://humefootnotes.blogspot.com/
In this episode, we welcome a Latter-day Saint guest to Outer Brightness. Tarik D. LaCour is a PhD candidate in Philosophy at Texas A&M University. The topic of free-will (or moral agency) is deeply intertwined with LDS theology. Philosophically, Tarik holds to the position of soft determinism. That position is often called Compatibilism, and is the view that human free-will is compatible with God's omniscience. Compatibilism is the position often taken by Calvinists. Latter-day Saints are typically Libertarian when it comes to the concept of free-will, and some even adopt the Open Theist view, which holds that God does not have exhaustive foreknowledge of future events. In this first installment, we get to know a bit about Tarik’s background and philosophical interests, and we dig into the theological point (uncreated intelligence/intelligences) that divide LDS cosmology from Christian cosmologies, and touch on why LDS think their view is superior (i.e. that it better accounts for the problem of evil). If these topics interest you, then join us for a fun discussion.
You can connect with Tarik on Facebook and request access to his blog:
http://humefootnotes.blogspot.com/
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul continue the conversation with Steve James. In this final installment, we continue the dialogue around the definitions of “inspiration” and “revelation,” the idea that the use of Ancient Near Eastern texts by Old Testament writers is “polemical,” the Divine Council Worldview of Dr. Michael S. Heiser. We also begin discussing the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy and questions Steve posed regarding several if it’s articles, and the perspicuity of scripture. Is revelation from God to prophets and apostles needed today? We discuss several ideas that Steve posed as areas where Christianity is adopting views more closely aligned with Mormonism, a common LDS apologetic method.
Here are some resources for listeners to explore more about the topics we discussed in these episodes:
Scripture Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine by R. C. Sproul
https://www.amazon.com/Scripture-Alone-Evangelical-Doctrine-Sproul/dp/1596389540/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=Scripture+Alone&qid=1629646329&s=books&sr=1-4
Supernatural: What the Bible Teaches About the Unseen World - and Why It Matters by Dr. Michael S. Heiser
https://www.amazon.com/Supernatural-Bible-Teaches-Unseen-Matters/dp/1577995589/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1629646416&sr=1-2-spons
The Bible Among the Myths: Unique Revelation or Just Ancient Literature? by John N. Oswalt
https://www.amazon.com/Bible-among-Myths-Revelation-Literature/dp/0310285097/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1629646184&refinements=p_27%3AJohn+N.+Oswalt&s=books&sr=1-1&text=John+N.+Oswalt
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul continue the conversation with Steve James. In this second installment, we continue the conversation of the eighth LDS Article of Faith as it relates to the claim in 1 Nephi Chapter 8 in the Book of Mormon that plain and precious truths were removed from the Bible after the Early Church received the Hebrew Bible from the Jewish people, we talk about translations (JST vs. ESV), other modern books that claim to be revealed Scripture, proper definitions for the terms “inspiration” and “revelation,” and the concept of Biblical authors “borrowing” from source texts (e.g. Ancient Near Eastern texts).
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul welcome Steve James to Outer Brightness. Steve is a Latter-day Saint that we have dialogued with in various Facebook groups. Steve and Paul were having a spirited dialogue about the doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy in one of the groups and we decided to invite him on the program to continue the conversation. In this first installment, we introduce ourselves to each other to give context to the topic, and begin the discussion of Biblical Inerrancy with a conversation about the eighth LDS Article of Faith and a proper definition of Biblical Inerrancy.
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul read and respond to the LDS Gospel Topics Essay titled, Are Mormons Christian? Covered here in Part 2 are the other two main sections of the article "Latter-day Saints Believe in a Restored Christianity" and "Latter-day Saints Believe in an Open Canon," as well as the "Conclusion." We hope you enjoy this conversation.
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul read and respond to the LDS Gospel Topics Essay titled, Are Mormons Christian? Covered here are the "Introduction" and first main section, "Latter-day Saints Do Not Accept the Creeds of Post-New Testament Christianity". We hope you enjoy this conversation.
In this bonus episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul sit down to discuss why we study theology.
In this final episode of Season 5 of the Outer Brightness podcast, Michael & Briana join Matthew and Paul to discuss Michael’s article “The Iron Rod and the Escalator of God.” In this article, Michael focused on the topic of sanctification and how that plays out in the Christian’s life. We hope you enjoy this conversation!
Michael’s article can be found here:
https://fromwatertowine.org/the-iron-rod-and-the-escalator-of-god/
This week the Apostate Paul and Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist welcome Steven Pynakker to Outer Brightness. Steven is a charismatic Christian whose YouTube channel, Mormon Book Reviews, has taken off over the past few months. Steven has an interest in Mormon history and is very well read. He reviews books about Mormonism on his channel and interviews Mormon authors and historians, as well as others interested in Mormon history. He has shown that it is possible for Christians and Mormons to dialogue in respectful ways. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
Link to our episode on Steven's Channel, Mormon Book Reviews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lOy8ZVA09k
This week the Apostate Paul and Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist welcome Steven Pynakker to Outer Brightness. Steven is a charismatic Christian whose YouTube channel, Mormon Book Reviews, has taken off over the past few months. Steven has an interest in Mormon history and is very well read. He reviews books about Mormonism on his channel and interviews Mormon authors and historians, as well as others interested in Mormon history. He has shown that it is possible for Christians and Mormons to dialogue in respectful ways. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
Link to our episode on Steven's Channel, Mormon Book Reviews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lOy8ZVA09k
This week, you get to join me (The Apostate Paul) as a (fire)fly on the wall for a conversation between Michael the Ex-Mormon Apologist and his brother David, a Latter-day Saint. They talk most days during their commutes, and we think that this models how to how to have effective conversations about the gospel and doctrine with family, while maintaining those important relationships.
This week, you get to join me (The Apostate Paul) as a (fire)fly on the wall for a conversation between Michael the Ex-Mormon Apologist and his brother David, a Latter-day Saint. They talk most days during their commutes, and we think that this models how to how to have effective conversations about the gospel and doctrine with family, while maintaining those important relationships.
Hey Fireflies! Welcome to this bonus episode of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. The Apostate Paul here. I’m recording a new intro for this episode, because since Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I recorded this episode on July 1, the state of affairs has changed. So in this intro, I’m going to provide a quick timeline.
In 2012 or 2013, the LDS Church began publishing Gospel Topics Essays designed to allow church members to learn about difficult topics in LDS Church history and doctrine directly from the Church’s official website, rather than other online sources. These essays have the imprimatur of the First Presidency of the LDS Church and acknowledge the reliance on the work of scholars in crafting the essays.
In the early 2000’s, when I was in the midst of my period of deep questioning and wrestling with my Mormon beliefs—what many call a faith crisis—there were many online apologetics resources, FAIR, SHIELDS, Ask Gramps. I remember that in the discussion boards, if someone posted an article from one of those resources in response to a question, it was often lamented that LDS Church leadership did not put their stamp of approval on those answers. Struggling members wondered if they could trust the apologetic resources. Many surmise that The Gospel Topics Essays were designed to do just that—to inoculate church members against difficult topics.
The relationship of the LDS Church to the essays, however, has been thorny. The essays are not easy to find on the website, and you won’t stumble on them unless you know what you’re looking for. Many who have left over the past 7-8 years have cited the essays as sources that caused them to question their beliefs and noted that when they spoke with local ecclesiastical leaders about the essays and the questions they caused, many local leaders were not even aware of their existence.
On June 23, Fred Anson shared with us that one of the Gospel Topics Essays—the one titled “Becoming Like God”—had disappeared from the LDS Church’s website, but was still available in the Gospel Library app available for mobile devices. Matthew and I had already discussed doing a series of episodes on the essays, so we fast tracked this one. We recorded this episode on July 1st.
At that time, the link for the “Becoming Like God” essay was still on the website: churchofjesuschrist.org, but it redirected to a different essay titled “Are Mormons Christian?” The disappearance of the “Becoming Like God” essay was widely noted in online ex-Mormon communities, and many were speculating that maybe the LDS Church was seeking to distance itself from the doctrines discussed therein—doctrines which perhaps more than any other LDS doctrines place Mormonism outside the mainstream of orthodox Christian beliefs. The fact that the link redirected to an essay aimed at answering the question “are Mormons Christian?” furthered that speculation.
On Tik-Tok, an ex-Mormon named “Exmo Lex” noted that the Frequently Asked Questions section of the Newsroom section of the LDS Church website expressly denies that Latter-day Saint scripture or doctrine teaches that exalted Mormons will get their own planets, even though LDS leaders have taught that as doctrine for almost two centuries and as recently as 2018, when current LDS prophet and president, Russell M. Nelson taught the traditional LDS doctrine on this point when he said,
"A fourth gift from our Savior is actually a promise—a promise of life everlasting. This does not mean simply living for a really, really, really long time. Everyone will live forever after death, regardless of the kingdom or glory for which they may qualify. Everyone will be resurrected and experience immortality, but eternal life is so much more than a designation of time. Eternal life is the kind and quality of life that Heavenly Father and his beloved Son live. When the Father offers us everlasting life he is saying in essence, “If you choose to follow my Son, if your desire is really to become more like him, then in time you may live as we live and preside over worlds and kingdoms as we do."
It seemed odd that the LDS Church would seemingly be distancing itself from this doctrine, but the LDS Church has repudiated core doctrine and practice before.
Over the weekend of July 3 and 4th, the essay in the mobile app began to disappear for those users whose apps had completed content refreshes. On the website no longer rerouted. It simply became circular, such that if you clicked the link for “Becoming Like God” you landed on another page with a link to “Becoming Like God.” It’s almost as if the LDS Church was trolling and the link became like the “eternity mirrors” in the sealing rooms of their temples.
Then on July 7th, the essay appeared back online. I used archive.org’s Wayback Machine to pull a version from May 18th and compared it to the July 7th version to see if edits had been made. The only change was the removal of the original publication date of February 2014.
So for now we close this odd bit of Mormon History still unsure why the essay disappeared for a couple weeks and which declaration of the LDS Church should be taken as doctrine: that made by the LDS Newsroom staff or that made by the current prophet and president of the church.
Even so, Matthew and I read each section of the essay in this episode and discuss it.
Link to “Becoming Like God” Gospel Topics Essay
https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng
Link to FAQ’s # 11 & 12
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/frequently-asked-questions
Link to Russell M. Nelson’s 2018 Christmas Devotional Address
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOIxEU2trOk
Link to referenced podcast episodes about Origen
https://wordandtable.simplecast.com/episodes/origen
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-first-centuries-part-07-origen/id435665417?i=1000382806203
https://historyofphilosophy.net/origen
Hey Fireflies! Welcome to this bonus episode of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. The Apostate Paul here. I’m recording a new intro for this episode, because since Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I recorded this episode on July 1, the state of affairs has changed. So in this intro, I’m going to provide a quick timeline.
In 2012 or 2013, the LDS Church began publishing Gospel Topics Essays designed to allow church members to learn about difficult topics in LDS Church history and doctrine directly from the Church’s official website, rather than other online sources. These essays have the imprimatur of the First Presidency of the LDS Church and acknowledge the reliance on the work of scholars in crafting the essays.
In the early 2000’s, when I was in the midst of my period of deep questioning and wrestling with my Mormon beliefs—what many call a faith crisis—there were many online apologetics resources, FAIR, SHIELDS, Ask Gramps. I remember that in the discussion boards, if someone posted an article from one of those resources in response to a question, it was often lamented that LDS Church leadership did not put their stamp of approval on those answers. Struggling members wondered if they could trust the apologetic resources. Many surmise that The Gospel Topics Essays were designed to do just that—to inoculate church members against difficult topics.
The relationship of the LDS Church to the essays, however, has been thorny. The essays are not easy to find on the website, and you won’t stumble on them unless you know what you’re looking for. Many who have left over the past 7-8 years have cited the essays as sources that caused them to question their beliefs and noted that when they spoke with local ecclesiastical leaders about the essays and the questions they caused, many local leaders were not even aware of their existence.
On June 23, Fred Anson shared with us that one of the Gospel Topics Essays—the one titled “Becoming Like God”—had disappeared from the LDS Church’s website, but was still available in the Gospel Library app available for mobile devices. Matthew and I had already discussed doing a series of episodes on the essays, so we fast tracked this one. We recorded this episode on July 1st.
At that time, the link for the “Becoming Like God” essay was still on the website: churchofjesuschrist.org, but it redirected to a different essay titled “Are Mormons Christian?” The disappearance of the “Becoming Like God” essay was widely noted in online ex-Mormon communities, and many were speculating that maybe the LDS Church was seeking to distance itself from the doctrines discussed therein—doctrines which perhaps more than any other LDS doctrines place Mormonism outside the mainstream of orthodox Christian beliefs. The fact that the link redirected to an essay aimed at answering the question “are Mormons Christian?” furthered that speculation.
On Tik-Tok, an ex-Mormon named “Exmo Lex” noted that the Frequently Asked Questions section of the Newsroom section of the LDS Church website expressly denies that Latter-day Saint scripture or doctrine teaches that exalted Mormons will get their own planets, even though LDS leaders have taught that as doctrine for almost two centuries and as recently as 2018, when current LDS prophet and president, Russell M. Nelson taught the traditional LDS doctrine on this point when he said,
"A fourth gift from our Savior is actually a promise—a promise of life everlasting. This does not mean simply living for a really, really, really long time. Everyone will live forever after death, regardless of the kingdom or glory for which they may qualify. Everyone will be resurrected and experience immortality, but eternal life is so much more than a designation of time. Eternal life is the kind and quality of life that Heavenly Father and his beloved Son live. When the Father offers us everlasting life he is saying in essence, “If you choose to follow my Son, if your desire is really to become more like him, then in time you may live as we live and preside over worlds and kingdoms as we do."
It seemed odd that the LDS Church would seemingly be distancing itself from this doctrine, but the LDS Church has repudiated core doctrine and practice before.
Over the weekend of July 3 and 4th, the essay in the mobile app began to disappear for those users whose apps had completed content refreshes. On the website no longer rerouted. It simply became circular, such that if you clicked the link for “Becoming Like God” you landed on another page with a link to “Becoming Like God.” It’s almost as if the LDS Church was trolling and the link became like the “eternity mirrors” in the sealing rooms of their temples.
Then on July 7th, the essay appeared back online. I used archive.org’s Wayback Machine to pull a version from May 18th and compared it to the July 7th version to see if edits had been made. The only change was the removal of the original publication date of February 2014.
So for now we close this odd bit of Mormon History still unsure why the essay disappeared for a couple weeks and which declaration of the LDS Church should be taken as doctrine: that made by the LDS Newsroom staff or that made by the current prophet and president of the church.
Even so, Matthew and I read each section of the essay in this episode and discuss it.
Link to “Becoming Like God” Gospel Topics Essay
https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng
Link to FAQ’s # 11 & 12
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/frequently-asked-questions
Link to Russell M. Nelson’s 2018 Christmas Devotional Address
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOIxEU2trOk
Link to referenced podcast episodes about Origen
https://wordandtable.simplecast.com/episodes/origen
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-first-centuries-part-07-origen/id435665417?i=1000382806203
https://historyofphilosophy.net/origen
Hey Fireflies! Welcome to this bonus episode of Outer Brightness: From Mormon to Jesus. The Apostate Paul here. I’m recording a new intro for this episode, because since Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and I recorded this episode on July 1, the state of affairs has changed. So in this intro, I’m going to provide a quick timeline.
In 2012 or 2013, the LDS Church began publishing Gospel Topics Essays designed to allow church members to learn about difficult topics in LDS Church history and doctrine directly from the Church’s official website, rather than other online sources. These essays have the imprimatur of the First Presidency of the LDS Church and acknowledge the reliance on the work of scholars in crafting the essays.
In the early 2000’s, when I was in the midst of my period of deep questioning and wrestling with my Mormon beliefs—what many call a faith crisis—there were many online apologetics resources, FAIR, SHIELDS, Ask Gramps. I remember that in the discussion boards, if someone posted an article from one of those resources in response to a question, it was often lamented that LDS Church leadership did not put their stamp of approval on those answers. Struggling members wondered if they could trust the apologetic resources. Many surmise that The Gospel Topics Essays were designed to do just that—to inoculate church members against difficult topics.
The relationship of the LDS Church to the essays, however, has been thorny. The essays are not easy to find on the website, and you won’t stumble on them unless you know what you’re looking for. Many who have left over the past 7-8 years have cited the essays as sources that caused them to question their beliefs and noted that when they spoke with local ecclesiastical leaders about the essays and the questions they caused, many local leaders were not even aware of their existence.
On June 23, Fred Anson shared with us that one of the Gospel Topics Essays—the one titled “Becoming Like God”—had disappeared from the LDS Church’s website, but was still available in the Gospel Library app available for mobile devices. Matthew and I had already discussed doing a series of episodes on the essays, so we fast tracked this one. We recorded this episode on July 1st.
At that time, the link for the “Becoming Like God” essay was still on the website: churchofjesuschrist.org, but it redirected to a different essay titled “Are Mormons Christian?” The disappearance of the “Becoming Like God” essay was widely noted in online ex-Mormon communities, and many were speculating that maybe the LDS Church was seeking to distance itself from the doctrines discussed therein—doctrines which perhaps more than any other LDS doctrines place Mormonism outside the mainstream of orthodox Christian beliefs. The fact that the link redirected to an essay aimed at answering the question “are Mormons Christian?” furthered that speculation.
On Tik-Tok, an ex-Mormon named “Exmo Lex” noted that the Frequently Asked Questions section of the Newsroom section of the LDS Church website expressly denies that Latter-day Saint scripture or doctrine teaches that exalted Mormons will get their own planets, even though LDS leaders have taught that as doctrine for almost two centuries and as recently as 2018, when current LDS prophet and president, Russell M. Nelson taught the traditional LDS doctrine on this point when he said,
"A fourth gift from our Savior is actually a promise—a promise of life everlasting. This does not mean simply living for a really, really, really long time. Everyone will live forever after death, regardless of the kingdom or glory for which they may qualify. Everyone will be resurrected and experience immortality, but eternal life is so much more than a designation of time. Eternal life is the kind and quality of life that Heavenly Father and his beloved Son live. When the Father offers us everlasting life he is saying in essence, “If you choose to follow my Son, if your desire is really to become more like him, then in time you may live as we live and preside over worlds and kingdoms as we do."
It seemed odd that the LDS Church would seemingly be distancing itself from this doctrine, but the LDS Church has repudiated core doctrine and practice before.
Over the weekend of July 3 and 4th, the essay in the mobile app began to disappear for those users whose apps had completed content refreshes. On the website no longer rerouted. It simply became circular, such that if you clicked the link for “Becoming Like God” you landed on another page with a link to “Becoming Like God.” It’s almost as if the LDS Church was trolling and the link became like the “eternity mirrors” in the sealing rooms of their temples.
Then on July 7th, the essay appeared back online. I used archive.org’s Wayback Machine to pull a version from May 18th and compared it to the July 7th version to see if edits had been made. The only change was the removal of the original publication date of February 2014.
So for now we close this odd bit of Mormon History still unsure why the essay disappeared for a couple weeks and which declaration of the LDS Church should be taken as doctrine: that made by the LDS Newsroom staff or that made by the current prophet and president of the church.
Even so, Matthew and I read each section of the essay in this episode and discuss it.
Link to “Becoming Like God” Gospel Topics Essay
https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng
Link to FAQ’s # 11 & 12
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/frequently-asked-questions
Link to Russell M. Nelson’s 2018 Christmas Devotional Address
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOIxEU2trOk
Link to referenced podcast episodes about Origen
https://wordandtable.simplecast.com/episodes/origen
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-first-centuries-part-07-origen/id435665417?i=1000382806203
https://historyofphilosophy.net/origen
In this episode, Matthew the Nuclear Calvinist and the Apostate Paul deal the dirt, and talk about your friend and our friend, Herman. Who’s Herman? Hermeneutics: The Art and Science of Biblical Interpretation. How should we read and understand the Bible. If a passage is difficult to understand, what are the steps to unpacking the author's intent? We tackle these questions and more in this episode.
Check out these other resources:
What Is Biblical Hermeneutics?
Hermeneutics: Principles and Processes of Biblical Interpretation by Henry Virkler and Karelynne Ayayo
In this episode, the scions of light wrap up conversation on a topic that an LDS missionary listener named Jeremy asked them to discuss. The doctrine of creation, and whether God created ex materia (from existing materials) or ex nihilo (from nothing), is a key point of departure between Mormonism and Christianity. Here we discuss how it affects other doctrines and practices and dig into some of the Biblical support for creatio ex nihilo.
If you're interested in reading some of the discussion of this topic that we had with some latter-day saints, check out these FB threads:
Post about the episode at the Facebook discussion group: Evangelicals and Latter-Day Saints.
Post about the episode at the Facebook discussion group: Mormons and Biblical Discussion Group.
In this episode, the scions of light tackle a topic that an LDS missionary listener named Jeremy asked them to discuss. The doctrine of creation, and whether God created ex materia (from existing materials) or ex nihilo (from nothing), is a key point of departure between Mormonism and Christianity. Here we discuss how it affects other doctrines and practices.
You can read Paul Copan's (Christian) defense of the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo against the claim that it was a later development in church history here.
William Lane Craig's (Christian) article "Creation ex nihilo: Theology and Science" can be read here. His article "Creatio ex nihilo: A Critique of the Mormon Doctrine of Creation" is here.
Blake Ostler's (Mormon) response to Craig and Copan "The Doctrine Of Creation Ex Nihilo Was Created Out Of Nothing: A Response To Copan And Craig" can be read here.
In this episode, Michael and Paul welcome Rich Hoyer to the program. Rich is a pastor of a church in the Louisville, Kentucky area. He’s also heavily involved in apologetics, planning and hosting the annual Reveal Conference, which brings Christian apologists to the Louisville and Indianapolis areas. Rich dropped by to share his thoughts on why Christian apologetics is important.
Check out Rich's blog Damming Pop Religion.
Watch an onlinea sermon he preached for for Lyndon Christian Church on Ephesians 2:8-9 titled "The Beauty of Grace."
In this episode, we bring you part two of an interview we conducted with Fred Anson.
Fred is the driving force behind Beggar’s Bread, a Christian blog where Beggars share the bread that they’ve so freely and graciously received.
Before Fred converted to Christianity in the 1970’s he was an atheist.
Early in his life as a Christian, he became enmeshed in a high-demand, Christian cult called the Shepherding Movement.
Fred visited Outer Brightness to share his story, and what he learned about mind-control from his time in the Shepherding Movement and from leaving that movement.
Read Beggar’s Bread here.
Contact Fred Anson here.
In this episode and the next, we bring you an interview we conducted with Fred Anson.
Fred is the driving force behind Beggar’s Bread, a Christian blog where Beggars share the bread that they’ve so freely and graciously received.
Before Fred converted to Christianity in the 1970’s he was an atheist.
Early in his life as a Christian, he became enmeshed in a high-demand, Christian cult called the Shepherding Movement.
Fred visited Outer Brightness to share his story, and what he learned about mind-control from his time in the Shepherding Movement and from leaving that movement.
Read Beggar’s Bread here.
Contact Fred Anson here.
In this episode, two of the scions of light (Briana and Matthew) interview Matt Wilder of Adam's Road Ministry. Matt composes beautiful original piano pieces and adds to them spoken word readings from Scripture. Adam's Road Piano is one of his creative outlets. He visited Outer Brightness to discuss his journey from Mormon to Jesus and what he's currently doing with the Adam's Road Ministry. We hope you enjoy this interview.
Learn more about Adam's Road Ministry here.
Check out Adam's Road Piano here.
Subscribe to Adam's Road Piano on YouTube here.
In this episode, two of the scions of light (Michael and Paul) interview Micah Wilder of Adam's Road Ministry. Micah's book Passport to Heaven will be released on June 1, 2021. He dropped by Outer Brightness to talk about his story, his ministry and his book. We hope you enjoy this interview.
In this episode, the scions of light look back on the series of episodes they've done on the LDS Articles of Faith. They each share and discuss some of their favorite moments from that series.
In this bonus episode, the scions of light announce the addition of Bri the Christ-Warrior Princess to the Outer Brightness. They also look back on Year 1 of the podcast and share some of their favorite moments that made it into episodes, as well as some that didn't. Finally, they share some exciting news about current developments related to distribution.
In this episode, two of the scions (Matthew & Paul) get together to discuss the 13th LDS Article of Faith and discuss the question: "What about morality?"
The scions of light continue and wrap up their discussion of LDS Article of Faith #10 related to the gathering of Israel. Last episode they talked about some LDS folk doctrines related to the lost 10 tribes. Listen to this episode to find out if our intrepid podcasters can locate the money quote from Joseph Smith about a literal changing of blood to make one a descendant of Abraham.
The scions of light have discuss LDS Article of Faith #10 related to the gathering of Israel. They discuss some of the unique LDS teachings and folk doctrines surrounding this topic and juxtapose those ideas with what they now believe as Christians about the gathering of Israel.
The scions of light discuss an article by Michael titled "The Vicarious Atonement: A Proclamation to Latter-day Saints." Read the article here: https://fromwatertowine.org/the-vicarious-atonement-a-proclamation-to-latter-day-saints/
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the most important event in human history. Romans, chapter 1, verse 4 states that Jesus was “declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.” In other words, the Resurrection was God’s powerful declaration of Jesus as His Son. As we celebrate Resurrection day today, our topic is the Resurrection. We hope you enjoy this discussion!
In this episode, the sons of light continue their discussion of the Gifts of the Spirit. They tackle questions about whether the gifts were evident in Old Testament believers, what the gifts are, if there are different categories of gifts, and whether or not the gifts (all of them) continue. We hope you enjoy this conversation!
In this episode the sons of light discuss the Gifts of the Spirit. They kick off by sharing their experiences as Mormons, the continuationist position that the LDS Church takes, and they begin to discuss the biblical data regarding spiritual gifts.
How do Christians balance their worship of God in spirit and in truth? That is the topic that the sons of light take up this week. They discuss questions surrounding this topic and share how their understanding has grown through their journeys. Hang around to the end because they discuss the way James 1:5 is used in Joseph Smith’s first vision account and by Latter-day Saints as well as other questions.
Matthew and Paul recap the Book of Abraham debate Paul had with LDS Apologist Brett Dennis. They discuss feedback provided by Jeremy Howard, Robert Boylan, and a listener named Richard, who recommended a YouTube video by another LDS apologist, Paul Gregersen. Matthew and Paul take time to respond to Gregersen's overall argument. We hope you enjoy this bonus episode.
LDS Apologist Brett Dennis joined Outer Brightness for a formal debate with Paul. The topic was "Is the Book of Abraham Ancient Scripture?"
In this episode the sons of light discuss the ninth LDS article of faith and the concept of continuing revelation. This topic has a lot to unpack, branching out into topics related to additional scripture and canon and modern day prophets and apostles. We hope you enjoy this discussion.
The sons of light are joined by Darren Colwel and Ben Hyink. Both are church planting pastors at Covenant Grace Church in Syracuse, Utah. They joined us to discuss Covenant Theology. We think our conversation will be helpful to Latter-day Saints or post-Latter-day Saints seeking to understand the Bible and theology more fully. You can find out more information about Covenant Grace Church at: https://www.covenantgraceutah.org/
This episode wraps the discussion the sons of light had on priesthood. Here they cover questions around placing oneself under the authority of local church leaders, whether or not they have more confidence without the LDS priesthood, what they would say to a Latter-day Saint who claims that exclusive LDS priesthood authority is necessary for ordinances to be effectual, and finally, they dig into some of the common proof texts Latter-day Saints use to argue for the necessity of their priesthood.
The sons of light continue their discussion of the LDS and Christian views of priesthood. The questions this time cover topics of worthiness, the perception that Latter-day Saints have that Christians lack authority, local church leadership in the churches Paul, Matthew, and Michael attend, and trusting church leadership after Mormonism.
The sons of light begin a discussion of the LDS view of priesthood. Here they tackle questions about their experiences in the LDS Church with priesthood, what it meant to them and their families, as well as the LDS Church hierarchy. Trigger Warning: The last twenty minutes or so of this episode contain discussion of sensitive topics. We’ll let you know when you bow out should you so desire.
The sons of light wrap up their deep dive discussion of the Lord's Supper. Here they finish their discussion of 1 Corinthians 11:17-29, and then tackle two questions related to what post-Mormons should know about the blessings of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as given in the Bible compared with what they were taught as latter-day saints, and what advice they have for post-Mormons who are hesitant to “take the plunge.”
The sons of light continue their deep dive discussion of the Lord's Supper. They begin to look closely at the relevant New Testament passages related to this sacrament, and discuss their meaning and application. Here they cover Luke 22:17-21, 1 Corinthians 10:14-22, and begin their discussion of 1 Corinthians 11:17-29.
In this episode the sons of light continue their discussion of the sacraments with a deep dive on the Lord's Supper. They kick it off with a question about comparing and contrasting their experience with the "sacrament" as latter-day saints and their experience with the Lord's Supper as Christians.
The sons of light respond to a YouTube video that one of Paul’s sisters sent to him as an example of what the LDS Church teaches about grace. The video is by Book of Mormon Central's Come Follow Me Insights YouTube channel, is instructive. We thought it would be helpful to our listeners to do a response episode.
Come Follow Me Insights Video 3 Nephi 12-14
In this episode, we finish our discussion of an article that Matthew wrote for Beggar’s Bread. The article was published in two parts, and here we focus on Part 2. We discuss the challenges LDS have integrating what past leaders have taught about perfectionism with the more recent focus on grace within LDS discourse, and how the lingering teachings and practices related to exaltation challenge their ability to so integrate.
In this episode the sons of light discuss some of their favorite Christmas music and memories of celebrating Christmas as young latter-day saints. Because this is The Outer Brightness Podcast, they discuss their journeys related to Christmas, and what new traditions they enjoy now as Christians. We hope you enjoy this episode and may the peace of Christ be with you in this wonderful season!
In this episode, we focus in on an article that Matthew wrote for Beggar’s Bread. The article was published in two parts, and here we focus on Part 1 (our discussion of the concluding part of his article will follow in two weeks). In Part 1, we discuss how the LDS conception of God affects their view of the gospel, as well as how perfectionism flows out from that.
The sons of light wrap up a focused conversation on topics and questions around the first of the two main Protestant sacraments/ordinances: baptism. We hope you enjoy this deep dive.
The sons of light continue a focused conversation on topics and questions around the first of the two main Protestant sacraments/ordinances: baptism. We hope you enjoy this deep dive!
The sons of light begin a focused conversation on topics and questions around the first of the two main Protestant sacraments/ordinances: baptism. We hope you enjoy this deep dive!
The sons of light are joined by Briana Flournoy and Dan Nurnberg for a roundtable discussion. The five post-Mormon Christians look back on their journeys and offer advice to others coming to Biblical Christianity from Mormonism. Lessons learned and laughter abound. We pray this conversation blesses your life.
The sons of light are joined by Michael's wife Briana Flournoy to interview Dove Award winning pianist and composer, Paul Cardall. He has a fascinating story of God working in his life to bring him through severe health challenges and through a journey from Mormonism to Jesus Christ. We hope you enjoy this episode! You can learn more about Paul Cardall and his music at https://www.paulcardall.com/
In this episode the sons of light attempt to tackle a subject that always creates more heat than light and may be more contentious even than religion: politics. What does the Bible say about political involvement and activism? More than one might think. Let's take a look together.
The sons of light are joined by Jeremy Howard, staff pastor at Orchard Hills Bible Church in Payson, Utah and co-host of the Do Theology podcast. He joined us for our discussion of the eleventh LDS Article of Faith to talk about religious freedom and respect. Jeremy developed a chart delineating Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary doctrines of the Christian faith. We discuss all of that with him. If you’re interested in better understanding where Mormonism differs from historic Christianity on primary doctrines like the nature of God and Salvation, this is a great episode for that.
If you're in Utah Valley and want to learn more about Orchard Hills Bible Church, you can check them out here:
https://www.paysonbiblechurch.com/home-tabs/home/1058
You can connect with the Do Theology podcast here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/do-theology/id1498123520
The sons of light continue their discussion of the sacraments of the Christian faith. This is the second in an introductory series on sacraments and here the focus is largely on the experiential differences between how the sons of light received and experienced the sacraments in the LDS Church versus in their various Christian churches.
The sons of light are joined by "The Street Apologist" a.k.a. Vocab Malone. Vocab recently debated Mormon apologist Kwaku El on Marlon Wilson's The Gospel Truth YouTube channel. Vocab came on The Outer Brightness Podcast to debrief the debate. You can watch the full debate between Vocab and Kwaku here:
https://youtu.be/bJRf7683Vew
You can connect with Vocab's channel Street Apologist Live here:
https://www.youtube.com/c/VocabMalone/
The sons of light begin a discussion about the ordinances, or sacraments, of the Christian faith. They begin by reflecting on the views they held as Latter-day Saints and comparing and contrasting those with the views they now hold. The first part of this discussion wraps up with their comments on the difference in terminology (ordinances vs. sacraments).
The sons of light wrap up their discussion of Original Sin, a topic that represents a stark contrast between Mormonism and Christianity. Here they talk about what the Bible says about the effects that sin has on the human will, Augustine’s analogies about the effects of sin (with a detour into the humor of sleep deprived minds, the effect of recording late on Friday nights), whether this doctrine was a hard one for them to accept as they transitioned to Christianity, and LDS objections the doctrine of Original Sin.
The sons of light discuss a doctrine that often places Latter-day Saints at odds with orthodox Christians. Original Sin is the doctrine that humanity's fallen nature prohibits individuals from coming to God and salvation on their own. Mormons have a strong doctrine of free will. The questions we discuss here tease out the theological and scriptural differences.
The sons of light are joined by a special guest. Jordan Rittmeyer is a full-time Christian missionary to the Latter-day Saint people with Trigrace Ministries in Ephraim, Utah. We discussed Jordan’s ministry and picked his brain for tips on witnessing in love to Latter-day Saints.
In this episode the sons of light set up a hypothetical situation. We ask the question, "What if our younger missionary selves knocked at our door? What would we say to them now that we've crossed over to the other side?"
The sons of light round out a discussion on how the concept of identity relates to their faith journeys. In this first part, they discuss how their sense of self has changed since going through their faith transition, if they would say they are still “Mormon” in any sense, and what the Bible has to say about identity.
The sons of light continue a discussion on how the concept of identity relates to their faith journeys. In this first part, they discuss whether or not they had internalized an identity as Mormon by the time they were adults, whether or not tribal mentality affects Christians, and if their transition to Protestant Christianity resulted in a disturbance in their sense of self.
The sons of light begin a discussion on how the concept of identity relates to their faith journeys. In this first part, they discuss when they first recall having a sense of self, what role their religion played in their sense of self as a child, and how the LDS Church specifically shaped their sense of self during their adolescent years.
In this episode, the sons of light discuss an article by Michael titled, "The Three LDS Conversions: A Primer for the Befuddled." While the intended audience of this article is Christians witnessing to Latter-day Saints, the discussion here could be helpful to an LDS or post-LDS seeking to understand their own interactions with the LDS Church. We hope you find our conversation helpful.
In this episode, Michael the Ex-Mormon Apologist takes some time out from his universe-wide book tour to stop in at the Outer Brightness studio. He talks with Matthew and Paul about his new book, Falling Into Grace: How A Mormon Apologist Stumbled Into Christianity.
Pick up your copy here:
Amazon Link
The sons of light wrap up their discussion of topics related to salvation, covering questions about how works play into salvation, real talk on whether they ever doubt their salvation, what gives them hope in those moments, and how their view of Christ has changed after leaving the LDS faith. They're also introduced to Mr. Pibb.
The one in which the sons of light actually discuss Flournoy's Wager, as well as Christian liberty, how justice plays into salvation, and which passages of Scripture led them to change their views.
The sons of light begin a discussion of topics related to salvation. In this episode they discuss the importance of having a correct understanding of the gospel, forensic justification, deathbed repentance, and Flournoy's Wager.
The sons of light welcome Jaxon Washburn to the podcast. Jaxon is an aspiring LDS scholar who wrote a blog article defending the idea that Moroni 10:32-33 in the Book of Mormon teaches salvation by grace. We invited him on to discuss that article and topics related to LDS teachings on salvation more broadly.
Matthew the Knucklier Calvinist and Paul Bunyan go "behind enemy lines" on the Radio Free Mormon podcast to chat about an article he wrote on born again experiences in the Book of Mormon.
In this episode, the sons of light tackle questions that Michael, The Ex-Mormon Apologist, used to toss at Christians to try to undermine the Doctrine of the Trinity. They talk about their own struggles with understanding this doctrine and what ultimately convinced them that it is a biblical doctrine, and led them to accept it. The questions here stem from LDS Article of Faith #1.
In this episode, the sons of light tackle questions that Michael, The Ex-Mormon Apologist, used to toss at Christians to try to undermine the Doctrine of the Trinity. They talk about their own struggles with understanding this doctrine and what ultimately convinced them that it is a biblical doctrine, and led them to accept it. The questions here stem from LDS Article of Faith #1.
In this episode, the sons of light tackle questions that Michael, The Ex-Mormon Apologist, used to toss at Christians to try to undermine the Doctrine of the Trinity. They talk about their own struggles with understanding this doctrine and what ultimately convinced them that it is a biblical doctrine, and led them to accept it. The questions here stem from LDS Article of Faith #1.
The Sons of Light discuss Paul's story, including his upbringing, his mission, his attempts to share his faith with others after the mission that sent him spiraling and searching. He talks about the importance of online discussion of Mormonism to his journey, his transition out of the LDS Church, and how God drew him to Christ.
The Sons of Light discuss Paul's story, including his upbringing, his mission, his attempts to share his faith with others after the mission that sent him spiraling and searching. He talks about the importance of online discussion of Mormonism to his journey, his transition out of the LDS Church, and how God drew him to Christ.
The Sons of Light discuss Michael's story, including his attempts at defending Mormonism as a missionary and as an amateur apologist, and his transition out of the LDS Church. He shares details of his journey and where he is now.
The Sons of Light discuss Michael's story, including his attempts at defending Mormonism as a missionary and as an amateur apologist, and his transition out of the LDS Church. He shares details of his journey and where he is now.
The Sons of Light discuss Michael's story, including his attempts at defending Mormonism as a missionary and as an amateur apologist, and his transition out of the LDS Church. He shares details of his journey and where he is now.
The Sons of Light discuss Matthew's story, including his own personal conversion to Mormonism and his transition out of Mormonism. He shares details of his journey and where he is now.
The Sons of Light discuss Matthew's story, including his own personal conversion to Mormonism and his transition out of Mormonism. He shares details of his journey and where he is now.
The Sons of Light discuss Matthew's story, including his own personal conversion to Mormonism and his transition out of Mormonism. He shares details of his journey and where he is now.
The Sons of Light discuss some questions that all questioning Latter-day Saints or post-Latter-day Saints have to grapple with after they have crawled over, or under, or around the Book of Mormon: What About Scripture? Is there such as thing as a written Word of God? If so, where can it be found? This is part of our Articles of Faith Series. Here we discuss questions for post-Latter-day Saints stemming from LDS Article of Faith #8.
The Sons of Light discuss some questions that all questioning Latter-day Saints or post-Latter-day Saints have to grapple with after they have crawled over, or under, or around the Book of Mormon: What About Scripture? Is there such as thing as a written Word of God? If so, where can it be found? This is part of our Articles of Faith Series. Here we discuss questions for post-Latter-day Saints stemming from LDS Article of Faith #8.
The Sons of Light discuss some questions that all questioning Latter-day Saints or post-Latter-day Saints have to grapple with after they have crawled over, or under, or around the Book of Mormon: What About Scripture? Is there such as thing as a written Word of God? If so, where can it be found? This is part of our Articles of Faith Series. Here we discuss questions for post-Latter-day Saints stemming from LDS Article of Faith #8.
The Sons of Light discuss some questions that all questioning Latter-day Saints or post-Latter-day Saints have to grapple with after they have crawled over, or under, or around the Book of Mormon: What About Scripture? Is there such as thing as a written Word of God? If so, where can it be found? This is part of our Articles of Faith Series. Here we discuss questions for post-Latter-day Saints stemming from LDS Article of Faith #8.
The Sons of Light continue to discuss the question, "what church is true, then?" The conversation covers topics related to their transition into Christian churches and the new experiences that came with that. They share some of the challenges, joys, and surprises that came their way during their transitions.
The Sons of Light discuss the question, "which church is true, then?" The conversation covers topics related to their transition into Christian churches and the new experiences that came with that. They share some of the challenges, joys, and surprises that came their way during their transitions.
The Sons of Light continue their discussion of the question: "What if Mormonism ins't true?"
The Sons of Light (the Apostate Paul, Matthew the Nukular Calvinist, and Michael the Ex-Mormon Apologist) begin their discussion of the question: "What if Mormonism isn't true?"