Move With Deb the Podcast

I'm deep in dreaming about the future....

I'm migrating my online pain science program to a new platform. I'm going to be filling my brain wiht incredible hypnosis training this month embodying change work on topics like shame, trauma, nervous system repair, self concept and psychedelic states, and maybe even some weird stuff like past life regression and accessing relaxing trance states.

Who knows what will happening after attending Hypnothoughts Live. But I know that I haven't been very focused here. So my apologies. Even if I'm not on here creating a podcast, I am working with clients helping them create powerful embodied shifts in their wellbeing and I thought I'd just share a little bit of that with you today.

If you are curious about mindbody coaching and how we can use the mind and somatics to create less pain and more of the life you want to live, I would love to talk to you. You can find the link to my calendar at my website - www.movewithdeb.com

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I share with you my recent experience of having Covid and the mindbody medicine informed methods I used to help me decrease fear and recover without lingering symptoms. I share other recovery stories and first person information about people who have recovered from lingering symptoms colloquially known as "long covid". I hope that my process is helpful for you.

If you would like to chat with me - here's a link to book a free Curiosity Call -
https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

RESOURCES

What different people across the mindbody medicine field are discovering are the similarities between Covid symptoms and other long term chronic pain/illness symptoms and how the pain-fear-pain cycle plays into the perpetuation of symptoms after the body has recovered. So using this same approach they're seeing good responses.

Here's some resources that I've both listened to or read directly or have been told about through my colleagues.
https://www.positivelycovid.org/
https://www.longcovidcured.com/ - this has some great recovery stories - including Paul Garner, infectious disease Dr.
https://www.longcovidcured.com/about - this is a lovely list of various resources. I can offer people 6 weeks free of the Curable app if anyone wants to try that.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/long-covid-hope-recovery-symptoms - Dr. Garner's story of recovery
https://www.recoverynorway.org/2023/01/23/long-covid-recovery-gary/ - I like how Gary describes his understanding of the mindbody recovery process.
https://www.thismighthurtfilm.com/long-covid - Neuroplastic pain recovery resources from the team at This Might Hurt documentary
https://youtu.be/4vF0XNBTv9A - Interview with Dr. Schubiner, explaining the mindbody process to address Long Covid

This is probably MORE than enough.

It's all pretty much the same content (how to change the body experience, through retraining the brain) just through different lenses.

Happy to share more. I think just learning that recovery is possible even begins the change due to predictive processing.

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This episode I share a story with you about a friend and I changing her morning panic in a New York City diner and how we can embrace the process of change as something we are capable of doing because of how our brain works.

I get a little into how I want to change my relationship to making this podcast and getting more of the feelings I want to have more of. And I discuss how WEIRD it can feel when things we are used to dealing with so much changes and how to embrace the weird.

If you want to know more about how a mindbody hypnocoaching approach to decreasing symptoms associated with stress illnesses, anxiety, TMS or neuroplastic pain can help you, please book a curiosity call with me! https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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I've just graduated from Melissa Tiers' Integrative Hypnosis Training and I'm dedicating the month of November to playing and practicing skills and YOU'RE INVITED.

This podcast goes over some of the connections between hypnosis and mindbody work. Also I give you the details about why we'll be doing and why I'm so excited about it!

You can find the links to the daily schedule here. https://www.movewithdeb.com/calendar

Here's my calender if you want to chat about working together - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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In this podcast I talk about some of the physiological ways our body processes stress, yawning, crying, spontaneous inhalation. (I don't get sciencey)

You can find more information about this from the book Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle, coauthors (and twin sisters) Emily and Amelia Nagoski.

I'm also currently studying with Dr. Amy Apigian in her 21 Day Journey to Calm Aliveness in which she shares Somatic Experiencing exercises.

This episode is about how to use this reframe as a way to shift out of shame into curiosity. I share some of my hiking experiences in Iceland, especially when I was walking on a Glacier! Can you get into that curiosity approach?

If you want to know more about mindbody approaches to decreasing symptoms associated with stress illnesses, TMS or neuroplastic pain, please book a curiosity call with me! https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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In this podcast I talk about some of the physiological ways our body processes stress, yawning, crying, spontaneous inhalation. (I don't get sciencey)

You can find more information about this from the book Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle, coauthors (and twin sisters) Emily and Amelia Nagoski.

I'm also currently studying with Dr. Amy Apigian in her 21 Day Journey to Calm Aliveness in which she shares Somatic Experiencing exercises.

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Hello again, I've been gone, kind of hiding a bit because I've been dealing with some pain and that's been causing me to feel some fear and shame and creating difficulty in wanting to show up in this podcasting space. Here's a little story, as I like to tell about my endlessly fascinating experience in a human body. There's a second part that will follow up as I share the report of my x-ray and a conversation with my colleague, Charlie Merrill, PT.

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Here's a super short, super basic quickie somatic tracking overview.

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In this podcast I discuss how giving myself permission to enjoy a task created a powerful corrective experience about feeling joy and positive feelings. I talk about how that led to being able to finally finish a to do list I've been procrastinating on as well as feeling free to hop on a bike for the first time in a decade. Learning how to create feelings on purpose for your own wellbeing.

My consult calender is open again. If you're curious about working with me, let's chat!
https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Here's some details about my mindbody coaching program.
https://www.movewithdeb.com/

I post personal stories and informative content on instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/movewithdeb/

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This episode I share with you my process of decreasing my DOMS post workout through mindbody work and noticing where I'm feeling afraid of increasing my physical activity and how I took myself through a process of Deciding that I'm ok.

I hope that it's helpful for you on your journey of moving with more ease.

My calendar is back open for curiosity calls to see if you would like to work one on one with me in a welcoming and curious container for mindbody wellness and pain reprocessing.

https://www.movewithdeb.com/
https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Hello again! I am back after an unplanned break where my nervous system decided to show me an opportunity for some healing by giving me a big old NOPE in regards to taking action in my work life. I discuss why and share some of my mindbody experiences with demand avoidance, how I'm creating self friendship through my coaching practice and the practice of taking action through discomfort on purpose to rewire my nervous system reactivity.

Here's the articles I refer to in the podcast -

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201705/vagus-nerve-survival-guide-combat-fight-or-flight-urges

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/barbrastreisand/beforetheparadepassesby.html

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/

https://www.additudemag.com/pathological-demand-avoidance-autism-adhd/

Enjoy and don't forget to follow me at - https://www.instagram.com/movewithdeb/

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We are in our 2 year anniversary of Covid shut downs and we are experiencing a war. Nothing is "back to normal", and there's a lot of nuance to be said about what that even means. But what I'm noticing is I am being asked to make room for uncomfortable emotions in my life while I'm also moving forward. This episode is little snippets from my practice and from the work I'm doing with my clients around sleep and how to create peace that will lead to sleep.

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Hello! I'm sharing some thoughts about not only my favorite concept but one that has been THE most powerful tools in the mindbody arsenal for healing. CURIOSITY!

It's not as sexy as a fancy treatment with a lot of sibyls, but it's effective!
And you can start today. No prescription needed.

Here's the links I mentioned in the podcast.
https://youtu.be/kSZKIupBUuc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allostasis
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/13/opinion/culture/pandemic-languishing-behavioral-activation.html?

I am looking forward to continuing to connect, share and grow with you in the coming year.
Please follow me on instagram @movewithdeb

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This episode is a guided journey through processing an emotion. I recommend listening to it first before trying it, to acclimate your brain to the work that will be happening. While you are listening, pay attention to any judging or fear thoughts. Any thoughts that sound like, this won't work for me. I can't do this. I am bad at visualizing... and that's ok.

There's no wrong way to do this. There's no wrong answer. Are you willing to try? Can you become curious? What does approaching an activity with curiosity feel like? What if this is fun? What might that experience feel like?

This is a lovely to accompany this work. While I would write some words differently, in general I feel really aligned with his words and felt uplifted by them, so in that spirit I share them with you.
https://www.omaritani.com/blog/how-to-process-difficult-emotions

I am looking forward to continuing to connect, share and grow with you in the coming year.
Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb

My 1:1 pain recovery coaching program will be reopening this Spring. More news to come.

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This episode is a bit of a journey through my experience of getting an email that triggered some strong emotions for me. One of the most powerful ways for me to learn is through Narrative. In episode 41, I speak about powerful ways we learn embodied concepts. Just as we can learn pain, fear and overwhelm. We can unlearn them.

So my process of sharing my experience is to help you begin to explore the ways you can use language affect your nervous system and rewired your learned conditioned responses.

Episode 41 - Embodied AHA
https://www.movewithdeb.com/podcasts/move-with-deb-the-podcast/episodes/2147659578

I am looking forward to continuing to connect, share and grow with you in the coming year.

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb

My program will be reopening in the Spring of 2022. Looking forward to connecting with you then!

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Dr. Howard Schubiner, author of Unlearn Your Pain (I said it wrong in the pod, oooops sorry!) and leading mindbody physician dropped a nugget in my colleague's head which then got whispered into my ear and dropped into my auditory cortex to be processed..... I was like ooooooooh yes, FEAR is the main thing that we are helping with. Episode 43, I share with you some of my thoughts about that.

Dr. Schubiner's website - https://www.unlearnyourpain.com/
Dr. Huberman on the Neuroscience of Fear - https://hubermanlab.com/erasing-fears-and-traumas-based-on-the-modern-neuroscience-of-fear/

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In this episode I share with you 10 steps that I use when I listen to other people's TMS/MindBody Healing Stories. It's so easy to get discouraged, frustrated or confused in this process. That's legit 100% normal and I want to encourage you to USE the insights from that experience to guide your progress.

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb
New website and consult schedule coming soon.

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Episode 41, I discuss how I've integrated new mindbody experiences into my life at different times and what that Embodied AHA looks and feels like.

I share a concept called Tacit Knowledge which is about how we can use something someone else has learned and apply that as a skill in our own life, which is very relevant for the mindbody process. https://commoncog.com/blog/tacit-knowledge-is-a-real-thing/?

Wishing you so well in 2022.
I am looking forward to continuing to connect, share and grow with you in the coming year.

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

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Heya fam!
I did not mean to take a 3 week break.
But that's what happened.
So happy holidays!

Here's a short review of my "I Notice" practice to get you to start thinking about the thoughts in your head and the sensations in your body in a new way.

New Year, new relationship to the stuff inside your mindbody. :)

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

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Today I'm sharing with you some of my thoughts on central sensitization syndrome and the distinction between being sensitive and sensitized and the process of desensitization for pain and unpleasant sensations for healing.

I discuss working with clients on misophonia and abdominal distress from eating dairy and the process of desensitizing their responses to stimuli.

Feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb
My website is www.debmalkin.com

Here's the links to references in the podcast - https://www.alieward.com/ologies/dolorology

Central Sensitization Syndrome
https://www.physio-pedia.com/Central_Sensitisation

https://www.lin.health/insights/what-is-central-sensitization-syndrome

Pain is a normal feature of human life -
https://www.lifehack.org/625387/a-painless-life-may-sound-enticing-but-its-the-guarantee-to-true-suffering

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Welcome to Move With Deb. I'm Deb your friendly neuroplastician. And this is a podcast that explores the relationship between the body and the mind from a health at every size, judgment, free perspective. I teach you how developing a new internal conversation based on curiosity, self friendship and simple neuro-plasticity techniques can rewire your bodymind out of pain and emotional overwhelm to help you build the rich full life that you want to live. Disclaimer, this is not a replacement for medical care.

[00:00:50] Hello and welcome to Move With Deb the podcast. And this is episode 39, and I'm going to talk about being sensitized. So I finally listened to the ologies podcast about dolorology, which is pain with Dr. Rachel Zoffness and oh, my God y'all there were so many beautiful insights that I had that were breaking my brain.

[00:01:20] Boom, boom, boom, like seriously brain melting out my ears. I love that feeling, sometimes a little overwhelming, but the best part is it's a podcast. I can go back and listen to it. Link it in the show notes. And just know there is a lot of content in this one podcast. And from my point of view, this really could be like 10 different podcasts coming out of this one.

[00:01:47] And I think what I might in fact do is listen to it again and let that inspire some content for me to share. Because my favorite thing to do is like break down a lot of information into a way that you can metabolize it and practice it in your own life.

[00:02:04] So right now I'm just going to share this concept of being sensitized rather than being sensitive. So there's a lot of names for MINDBODY syndrome, TMS, neuroplastic pain, and one of them is central. I cannot ever say that central sensitization syndrome, I want to practice that I am a, I am a theater kid and like, you know, we always practice those kinds of Theater exercises where you say lots of words really fast.

[00:02:38] So I think I'm going to practice, um, central sense that central sensitization syndrome, central center, sensitization syndrome, central sensitization syndrome. You can see why it isn't popular because it's really hard to say. Looks great on paper sounds terrible coming out of the mouth. So central sensitization is a condition of the nervous system that is associated with the development and maintenance of chronic pain. When central sensitization occurs, the nervous system goes through a process called windup and gets regulated in a persistent state of high reactivity. That's an explanation, very short explanation from physio, pedia.com. And I will link to that in the show notes. There's a lot of information on the internet about our nervous system. Our brains always assessing our sensory input and then our nervous system is telling our brain like, yeah, this is important to pay attention to. This is dangerous. Right? Our threat reaction gets turned on. Maybe we go into sympathetic activation. Maybe we go into dorsal freeze, so lots of juicy, nervous system stuff that I really think is changing the way that we think about pain.

[00:03:59] So we have a lot of beliefs about pain. There's the belief that pain equals a problem in the body. There's the belief that we shouldn't expect to experience pain. And so if we do that alarm is being triggered, right? There's something wrong with me. I'm in danger. I did something wrong. That is a common one. I hear from my clients all the time, the belief that they caused their pain, that they are doing something wrong.

[00:04:28] And depending on like, kind of how their body is located in society. There's lots of messages about this kind of personal reinforcement of failure of their body. What situations are we in when we are in pain? If we have jobs that don't allow for time off or work environments that are exploitative or messages from our family or society about the presence of pain, are we believed that we are experiencing pain? So all of those things all get mixed in there in terms of like how we relate to the physical sensation that we are experiencing.

[00:05:06] I'm going to talk about sensitization in general and not attached to any particular diagnosis or identity, and here is why. When we think a trait is fixed, we have a difficult time creating curiosity around it. Creating curiosity that it even is possible for this trait or for this experience to be changed. Some people are just born with higher attunement for sensory input. So maybe you feel things deeply, or you have a higher arousal that comes on quickly. Maybe you are sensitive to sights, smells and sounds, and they are experienced in your body like pain.

[00:05:47] So I am working with a client right now on misophonia. The work right now is about shifting her self concept from being sensitive, to being sensitized and the pain that she feels in direct relationship to the distress around the sound and the anticipatory stress of what might happen when she encounters chewing she considers loud. And in my conversation with her, we found a number of reasons. Some of it is family history. Some of it is cultural that may explain why over time, the sound of someone else chewing became painful. So our conversations, I asked her, like, what happens when you're around somebody eating. And she says, I experience it as pain, her whole body just says yuck. Like she moves into this kind of. At disgust reflex. So she, one quick quickly gets anxious or feel shame. She also mentioned that she has a sensitive sense of smell. So we discussed that she can smell the garbage before her spouse. So sometimes like diaper smell is really intense, rotting garbage, spoiled milk. And one of the things I reflected back to her was your body is really good at taking care of you, that your body is highly sensitive to danger. It is telling you that these smells right. It's poop, rotting, garbage, which we don't want to be around. Your body is giving you a message that, that these things are dangerous and that you should know about them and that you should take action to get away from them. And so we talked about being sensitized to danger. So that it's not that she's sensitive and there's something wrong with her. It's just like her body's really skilled and highly effective at giving her these alerts. She enjoyed that framework. She talked about Hawks eyes are sensitive. We also looked at the distress and the anticipatory stress around these sensory experiences takes her from being sensitive to sensitized that the extra emotional experience around not wanting to feel the distress created the threat of the sensory experience. So over time she sensitized herself more and more and more.

[00:08:17] We had a conversation about, are there things that she tunes out. Right. We do tune out things all the time. We're human beings. If we experienced all of our sensory input, we would not be able to cope. We would be catatonic, like we have lots of sensory experiences going on in our body that we don't feel. So I asked her, you know, what are things that you tune out? What are things that you don't feel in your body? So like, lots of people don't feel their back unless they're in pain. I'll do this in massage, somebody doesn't feel something until I touch it. And then they're like, oh, I really feel that that feels like something. So there are ways that our brain turns the volume up or turns the volume down on sensory experiences. And until our attention is brought there, we literally do not feel it. So. I said, are there things that used to bother you that don't bother you now? And she came up with a list of things in only a few minutes. And I said, well, that is proof that the brain desensitizes us all the time. And so that's a skill that can be applied with intention for any sensory input. So you have the power to turn the volume dial down. You just need to learn how. And to learn how you first need to believe that it is possible for you to have control over that volume dial.

[00:09:45] Here's another example, here's kind of my personal example. And it's not even really about pain. It's kind of about emotional pain and, and sensitization. The other night I listened to a lecture that was both amazing and also full of some anti fatness and I'm annoyed and also recognizing the importance of desensitizing myself from my own reactivity and anger.

[00:10:11] So I can listen to the parts that are actually salient and useful for me. I go to these infuriating lectures, but at least I get to leave comments like how can you teach the same theory without villainizing fat people? Because it was a lecture on our metabolic system and dopamine, metabolic anything usually means be a dick to fat folks. And I will spare you the details. But so far I have not experienced very many lectures from people who do not have a health at every size framework to not have some kind of dig at fat people in a way that actually creates this very strong sense of other and separation, what they're doing is creating a separation of self and then that information's not creating a sense of wholeness with a person.

[00:11:12] I actually have a whole podcast coming about threat physiology and anti-fatness and sensitization. So that will be coming up soon. So in one helpful part, he discussed the concept of metacognition as a vehicle for healing in the way that it affects neuro-transmitters.

[00:11:30] And I've found that to be a cornerstone in my process with clients. And I'm just so happy that I've decided to attend and learn and be fully myself and translate these concepts, via my podcast, and my one on one work. It's fun to explore this shift from sensitive to sensitized, and working on desensitizing, even myself with my ability to listen to these concepts, even when I'm in a high arousal, sensitized, nervous system state, so that I can extract the useful information, without doing harm to myself..

[00:12:12] And being a part of a community, I think also helps me eventually leverage my ability to influence that community. And I'm choosing to do this on purpose. That is a large part of how we work on rewiring our sensitization is through our choice, choosing to be in relationship to the discomfort while we are rewiring it. On purpose for our own benefit. This concept of sensitization and desensitization with choice and agency really fits into this dynamic nervous system model. There are always like new ways to explain things, but I am really happy that I can contextualize my desensitizing process in a way that serves me, but doesn't harm me.

[00:13:04] I'm excited to work with my client about her misophonia. I had a previous client that I worked with around her headaches and her sound sensitivity, and the relationship between the sensitivity of hearing the sound, the anticipatory stress and the high emotional arousal. And a lot of what we did was just really slow everything down and create awareness.

[00:13:31] Awareness is the magical ingredient to this kind of mind-body process. And when we create awareness in a nervous system neutral way where we're not putting ourselves into high sympathetic activation or into very low dorsal freeze. We actually can relate to things that are happening in our life. And, and we, you know, we do that through titration. We do that through play. We do that through finding evocative language.

[00:14:01] As I was about to record this another client of mine sent me a message. We had started to work on their belly pain when eating dairy, uh, because they love dairy. So this is a high personal motivation. We picked this one thing that was going on in their body. Not just because it was like they wanted eat dairy, but because we wanted to work on their system-wide sensitization, but we wanted to choose something that also felt curious, pleasurable brought them into contact with things that they wanted, but we could work on those concepts that apply with any sensory experience and just practice it here. We're developing a set of skills that then can used globally. So why not start with learning something you really want to learn. You know, starting with like, oh, I really have a high motivation to eat dairy. Mmmm cheese! Yum ice cream. So we discussed all the mind beliefs about eating dairy and got all of those thoughts out of their subconscious mind, into the conscious mind.

[00:15:10] And then we created an experiment. And the plan was to eat dairy and to interrupt the brain's prediction, that it will create intestinal distress. Created that experiment like four days ago. And then I just got a message in slack that they ate multiple forms of delicious dairy and they have very little pain and their general digestion slash digestive tract seems healthier and feels better.

[00:15:36] So nothing else changed other than revealing and releasing the brain's prediction of what will happen when they ate a particular food, they created a prediction error and the brain and belly updated the program. Then we reinforce this new prediction through celebration and joyful reflection. So my message back to them included a lot of party emojis, because we want to reinforce that this was something created on purpose that proves this concept. It's not an accident. Just the other week there were a lot of beliefs and a lot of pain about having eaten something that caused distress, they ate the same thing, and some other things and experienced no pain and no distress, and then no symptoms.

[00:16:28] So how do you argue with that? Learning to allow pain, experience sensations or temporary physical experiences without the brain learning them. Right. Without the brain learning that, oh, yes, this is what we do now. So learning to allow pain, experience sensations, or temporary physical experiences without the brain learning them As well as creating what are called pain behaviors, which are conditioned responses that continue to reinforce the idea that relief comes from those behaviors without challenging the belief that the stimulus doesn't cause pain is the key to pain reprocessing.

[00:17:17] I like to pair bottom-up and top-down together, right? We can't resolve learned pain if we aren't aware of all the subtle coping strategies we've developed to help us when we're in pain. We also need to build reliable practices that affect change in the nervous system, so that the felt sense of safety can be believed. Otherwise we're only adding more stress and reinforcing distress by creating pressure, internal emotional pressure. So curious awareness, fun, targeted mind-body experiments can be a wonderful way to help the brain update our experience of hypersensitivity as well as honoring our tender selves that are experiencing distress, fear and anxiety.

[00:18:06] It's never about telling us that what we're feeling isn't happening, but it is believing in the ability that the power to affect change exists inside of us. And it is just a matter of finding the right key for this desensitizing lock. My teacher reminded me that boxers hit their fists on things over and over and over to desensitize them so that they can box. As a massage therapist my clients would always remark about how working over an area that felt sensitive a few times, made it feel much better, and the pain went down. The reason why that doesn't go away forever is that we have subconsciously trained ourselves off the massage table to look for pain and put a spotlight on it the moment you feel it return. But we can extrapolate from that experience of having pain and the strokes of the therapist, changing the sensory experience of it, this is the process of desensitization. When we are in burnout or overwhelm, it can be hard to just jump right into this.

[00:19:15] So let's look at the body mind as a whole or our life as a whole. How are we responding to everything around us? Are we in a state of high alert and reinforcing that distress subconsciously. So at some of this process, it's important to pull the camera back and see the whole as well as zooming in to what's hurting. Whole body pain states like fibro that's a central sensitization issue.

[00:19:45] So whether you experience emotion strongly or sensory input strongly, we can entertain the idea that no matter what we've been told about our body turning down, our threat response to sensory input is possible. I have done this work myself. I used to think of myself as a highly sensitive person.

[00:20:08] Uh, I've seen it with other neurodivergent people with ADHD and autistic folks that I work with. So I want to just frame that sensitization are things that happen in all people. And the other thing I want to say is that pain is a part of human life. There is nothing wrong with feeling pain.

[00:20:35] The belief that we should never experience pain is what is wrong. Pain medication is proven over time to sensitize us to pain. There is a ton of research that talks about how taking opiates regularly. One, the effectiveness of the opiate diminishes over time. And we need more of that pain medication, but because the system become sensitized to pain, mainly because we don't teach our nervous system that is safe to feel. Same thing with emotional distress.

[00:21:12] We don't teach our mind body system that is safe to feel, and we don't learn how to feel strong emotions. So when feeling pain is not distressing, we quiet our nervous system reaction to it. And our brain learns that we aren't in danger. And then we don't need to maintain this kind of threat alarm connection going.

[00:21:40] And we do this work by starting small. We talk to our brain. We learn how to allow discomfort. We practice updating our brain's prediction through outcome independence and doing things we want to do as a treatment method of desensitization. I hope this information is helpful. I hope it opens up a sense of possibility for you that even if you don't know the entire journey, how to get to the end from the starting point, at least you believe that this journey is possible for you.

[00:22:18] The willingness to start and the ability to create a relationship with curious awareness is maybe one of the most important skills to learning, to reprocess our sensitization to pain and sensory input. That is mind, body healing. That is healing, our nervous system. There are many methods that can work, but they all really have to start with a belief that it is possible for you.

[00:22:55] And I just, will never stop telling you that it is possible for you. No matter who you are, no matter what size you are. No matter what is going on in your life that we can learn and start to build the skill for experiencing your sensory input and your sensory experiences differently.

[00:23:17] And that's what I've got for you today. As always, I will be sharing more of my thoughts and beliefs on my podcast and the work that I create with my clients. If you feel emboldened, go off and create an experiment for yourself. And, please feel free to share it with me. Follow me on Instagram at move with Deb. I'm going to start working with new people again in the new year and, and look forward to connecting and sharing more. And I hope you have enjoyed this podcast.

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This week I share with you two experiences of mine around a stress response called a Dorsal Freeze. It's been my belief and experience that when we understand our nervous system and the relationship to our physiology, healing can occur. We have one mind, one body and one nervous system -- we are one being that moves through the world - assessing sensory experiences for our own survival. When we take the path towards embodied understanding our whole body responds and we can create the lives we want to live (even while there's systems in the world we want to change).

Feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb
My website is www.debmalkin.com

Article on Dorsal Freeze -
https://reichandlowentherapy.org/Content/Vegetative/dorsal_shift.html

Transcript:

[00:00:50] Welcome to Move With Deb The Podcast. This is episode 38 and I'm calling this one Ode To A Dorsal Freeze. First I want to say I know it's kind of silly to call my podcast, Move With Deb, the podcast, but I like it. It's kind of like staying Star Trek, the movie. Also it's my podcast. I basically do what I want. I have ADHD and I'm a random storyteller. That's a legacy from my mother that used to bother the hell out of me when I thought that I couldn't tell a straightforward narrative.

[00:01:30] My storytelling is as Swiss cheesy, as my memory, as is my ability to recall words and think during times of stress. Is that nature, nurture, trauma, neurodiversity? I honestly don't know. But what I do know is that understanding the relationship between the mind and the body can change our relationship to cognition, language, clarity and more. So today's podcast is going to be about two different experiences of mine of dorsal freeze. Now they're not the only two experiences of dorsal freeze in my life, that is so far from the truth.

[00:02:13] But now that I understand the nervous system framework, and polyvagal theory I can begin to see my lived experiences differently. I can see my depression differently, my overwhelm and emotional dysregulation during times of high stress differently. My lack of follow-through, my demand avoidance or my obsessive tendencies around control, and I'm going to label it toxic helpfulness.

[00:02:48] So here it goes. It's actually perfect timing. It's the 10th anniversary of closing my store in Brooklyn. I had a clothing store called Re/Dress NYC. It was a wild dream of a store, a plus size vintage and resale store in Brooklyn NY. It was glamorous, we hosted indie fashion shows, fat activist book readings and events. It was open for three years and dreamed of for many more before that. I opened a retail business hardly ever having worked in retail before. I was full of ideas, of hope, optimism, and looking back, I was kind of out of my mind a lot of time.

[00:03:33] So one time really sticks with me. It was before the store opened I was having a ton of issues with construction, getting permits, renovation. I was all in and I also bit off way more than I could chew. I often had this sense of urgency that didn't allow me to slow down and stop to think of solutions that weren't already the ones that I had decided were the right ones. Of course, I can see so much of that now. Hello hindsight, you are so sharp and clear.

[00:04:09] My partner at the time was super loving and encouraging, especially during my hot mess moments. And for some reason, I can't remember how we got into reading Jack Canfield's book, The Success Principles, probably because The Secret was popular or something at that time. She would read to me from this book and I remember one time just rocking back and forth and crying and in a complete state of overwhelm. It's a weird memory because I used to have so much shame about it. But also now I have a lot of fondness. I have a lot of fondness for that display of love and caring that she gave to me, to sit beside me when I was struggling and just keep reading. Probably worried, but also having seen me many times in this same state. At that moment, language was not available to me. My brain was turned off. Only tears and terror were really my most available feelings.

[00:05:20] And the rocking, that rocking movement that took me over, that held me while I was having this fear response. I can look back at that and think, oh my God, look how my body was caring for me.

[00:05:40] And I recovered. I did all the things. I opened the store. I made the gazillion decisions that needed to get made. I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about like, had I known I was so dysregulated most of the time, I would've gotten more help. Or I would've done things differently. And yet it's also okay. When we're thinking about the physiology of this experience, we are talking about the threat of shame and fear to the self.

[00:06:15] I touch upon this a little bit. In episode five, the despair of disbelief. Looking back, my forgetfulness, my overwhelm, my lack of executive function, losing language, and the ability to think, were signs of a nervous system response. It's called a dorsal freeze response.

[00:06:36] Here is a description of the dorsal vagal shift or the freeze response from a website called Reich and Lowen therapy dot org. There's a lot of different explanations of polyvagal theory, of the discovery of the vagus nerve from Dr. Stephen Porges. And there's lots of different writings about it.

[00:07:01] It's kind of like a trip through a clothing store and where you're trying to like find just the right outfit to wear on a date. And then you try things on and you're like, Hmm, this one is okay, but not perfect. Like it's a very Goldielocks kind of experience. So I draw from lots of different people's descriptions of these ideas. Because I am a very fussy Goldielocks. And so the way that one person says the same idea, but using different words, it kind of just doesn't fit, right? Like it's a jacket that you're like, ah, I could go get it tailored, but like getting it tailored is going to cost like the same amount of money as the jacket itself, so I'm going to put that back on the rack because the person who's like five, six, it's really gonna fit better. And I'm going to keep looking for the jacket that's going to fit me. And so that's kind of how I like to use the internet is, all right. I have this concept let me go find the website or the person who explains it in a way that makes sense to me today. And of course, tomorrow, I might have a new and different and more nuanced or variation on a theme of understanding. And I like to describe this, this way, because for me, I'm looking for not just the cognitive experience of an idea, but how I listen and understand all the way through my body.

[00:08:44] That's some of what I practice with my clients when we're talking about creating shifts using language. That it's not just a cognitive experience of CBT, which I'm, I'm not a therapist, so I don't know that we're doing CBT, but we are often doing an activity of like language swapping and like feeling our way through different words to experience the feelings and then experience the sensations in the body. So I like to do that with finding resources. So this website I'm gonna read to you about the dorsal vagal shift or the frozen response.

[00:09:27] The dorsal brake is in contrast to the ventral vagal break in very different species, such as reptiles. The dorsal vagal system is responsible for the dive reflex and immobilization as a defense, like playing dead. In humans, such defenses are less useful, but they exist still. When sympathetic tone drives the body in an unsustainable way, physiology demands some respite and it often comes in the form of shutdown.

[00:09:59] Signs of dorsal shift. So they have a little chart. One says manifestation. One says mechanism. So manifestation freezing, this term is used when someone doesn't move. But the term implies also a drop in temperature. This is probably more than the peripheral vasoconstriction of sympathetic shift. It possibly represents a decrease in the production of body heat.

[00:10:25] Manifestations speechlessness. Mechanism, the organs of speech run by the ventral vagal system seem unable to coordinate when the dorsal vagal system is strongly dominant. That's something that I describe in both of these situations, losing speech.

[00:10:46] Dissociation. This is possibly just the psychological correlate of freezing. With no movement, thought and perception loses its anchor in the body, in the here and now. And there are some manifestations that are pretty extreme, involuntary defecation and involuntary urination. And these are extreme distress mechanisms.

[00:11:09] Here's the manifestation of fainting. Plain fainting, which is known as vasovagal syndrome. There is a large danger of injury from an unprotected fall. People who faint often feel fine afterwards. Fainting may work as an autonomic reset.

[00:11:26] Shock is a circulatory collapse. It is life-threatening. We also speak of emotional shock from hearing or witnessing something. It may be akin to fainting. Shock is usually notable for speechlessness.

[00:11:40] And then a manifestation of a Sense Of Effort. And this is the mechanism where the muscles and limbs feel heavy. And I think that that one is also really, really interesting when we start to examine how dorsal freeze interplays with movement. I will revisit that one on another podcast.

[00:12:04] My take home for you on this is that these nervous system states are normal and natural. They're built into us. And what we're trying to do when we heal is to be able to move from sympathetic activation, to ventral vagal, to dorsal, to ventral, to sympathetic, to dorsal, to some, you know, ventral, blah, blah, blah, blah, that we shift ourselves from one to another, without having to slam the emergency brake on.

[00:12:32] So that when we create a mind body positive, awareness informed, self loving relationship with our nervous system, we don't need that alarm bell to be ringing so loudly that causes all of the shutdown to go into place. If you ever watched like a scifi movie where somebody accidentally trips the alarm and then all these doors start slamming and shutting, and like, then the people are trapped inside the room. You want that to not be our primary nervous system response. We want to you have a more nuanced, gentle, fluid relationship between our different states. And when we recognize that we are tipping into overwhelm, that we are triggering our freeze response, even that can be met with gentleness, love and knowledge of what's happening.

[00:13:29] And then we have just enough brain left on, we can toggle between the body and the mind. We can even self witness. The self witnessing practice is toggling between the cognitive thinking mind, the prefrontal cortex and the body. We don't leave one behind. But we're like, I feel like I'm in danger. What is my actual threat? My threat is from an emotion, right? It's from a belief. My threat is from a fear. I'm feeling fear in my body. My nervous system response to this fear is to begin to shut down. I can self witness this. I can ask for help.

[00:14:12] I can ground myself in these somatic practices. I can use this beautiful practice of somatic tracking. I can use a practice of a somatic smile and just curl the corners of my lips up and activate the shift in my vagus nerve. I can take a deep breath into my body and let it go.

[00:14:35] Like learning how to fly a plane. Or drive a really complex car that's got lots of different buttons, we learn. And the more we do it, the better we get at it. Remember how hard you had to think when you first learned to drive a car and now you can drive a car with barely any attention placed on what you're doing.

[00:14:57] That's moving our learning process through the nervous system to a place of feeling so resourced, we don't even have to give it any attention. And then think about where are you giving your attention? That's going to be another podcast. I think I actually did that podcast. That's on the Star Trek view screen.

[00:15:17] But thank you, dorsal freeze. Thank you nervous system for taking care of me when I felt overwhelmed. Thank you, partner for sitting next to me and taking care of me and reading to me and being there with me. And understanding that this is my nervous system state. And being a loving witness to it, is what you had to offer and it's healing and is helpful.

[00:15:46] Fast forward to last year when I was designing my Fear Brain and Chronic Pain course. I decided to create it during a time of high stress. And when I was ill and suffering with general anxiety disorder. Or as I'm going to call it my glorious anxiety disco. It was a time of displacement, pandemic, elder care, all rolled into one and all of the fears of an unseen, viral threat.

[00:16:17] So not the most chill time at all to be building something new. I have a hard time creating online content. In the past, I've even done some EMDR for it that helped. And the more I do it, the easier I get. And that's a mind body practice. And I've talked about this a bit on the podcast, especially around creating this podcast. And I'm sure that I will keep talking about it some more.

[00:16:45] So at the time of creating this course I was working with an anxiety coach who helped me get going on the project that I was struggling with. I thought, well, why not film myself and share that with people so that they can know that they're not alone when this is happening, but also to show how quickly I was able to move from a freeze state back into something that felt more like ventral vagal, resourced and calm. I think I was surprised at how easy it was to move through it. Once I let go of the fear and the shame about it. I'm sharing these experiences with you to show you that it's possible to shift nervous system states pretty quickly and easily when we know and understand what's up. When we take the fear and the shame out of the experience of having a nervous system reaction, we have more ease in moving through it quickly, and we can get back to the brain on, cognitive function and accurate neuroception ventral vagal state.

[00:17:52] So I've got that clip for you here, and I'll post a link to the video of it that lives on Instagram.

DEB INSTAGRAM VIDEO - (note I didn't speed up the dialogue, so it's slow because my thinking was slow. Sorry if it's kind if annoying in the podcast with the large gaps....) https://www.instagram.com/tv/CFpWpO_Btgi/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[00:17:58] Oh, I don't want, I don't want to make this video, but I'm making it because I am finding myself not being able to write or share these tools that I am using and creating to help me manage my pain and anxiety. Um, because when I think about doing it. I immediately go into like a freeze shutdown response, which is what this is. Um, so one of the things that's happening is my body feels very shaky. I clearly am very like the emotions, the tears come very quickly. The tightness and pain that I've been experiencing in my neck has just returned. My breathing is shallow. Um, my stomach is all jittery and my brain is just blank.

[00:19:35] This is my friend Lionel, he's very soft and he's here to help me. So in exploring this work first off, the idea is that I know like to get into the thoughts, the subconscious thoughts that I'm having and recognize what you know, that they're just stories that I'm telling myself. And that they kind of like turn on my fear response. Um, stories like I should know better. I should be, I should, this should be easier.

[00:20:27] That's like a really common thought of mine. This should be easier is like, a thing I think all the time, but it's not easier. And that is okay. But the thought that it, should be easier is the, is the thing that is leading me to feel shut down. So it is what it is. It's okay. This is just my nervous system doing its nervous system thing.

[00:21:05] And my, and the trick is to know my nervous system is fluid. And that by changing my relationship to that self judgment and then creating a new belief, which is, I mean, there should be easier, or I don't know how to do things. Those are not true stories. Right they're like my fear brain delivering me messages to keep me safe. And that is survival. It's not what I want. I mean, I want to survive, but I, I want to be able to do this work because it's been essential for me and my healing. So even in talking about this, even in recognizing. That I identified the thought this should be easier. And then separating myself from that thought, my throat doesn't hurt anymore.

[00:22:20] Like these symptoms are, are not that they're going away. They're my anxiety symptoms. But, um, I am practicing now this new belief, right? This new experience in it. So, and I am like literally bringing myself back from this poly vagal freeze. I'm unfreezing myself. Um, and I'm moving myself into more ventral vagal state.

[00:22:55] Um, so. I want to talk more and more and more, but one of the things I'm really working on doing is I'm trying to keep things simple. We have thoughts and we have feelings. Our feelings are generated by our thoughts. Our thoughts are created from like our entire history of ourselves as humans is our, our families, the society that we live in. Thoughts are not facts.

[00:23:36] Right. But our nervous system we've respond to these conscious and subconscious thoughts that we have going on in our mind. So, um, to navigate that is to first start to create awareness about what it is that we are thinking, and then feel the feelings that arise from those thoughts and allow feelings to be a part of our human process.

[00:24:12] And then we can build a practice to think new things on purpose, and then we can generate new feelings, but we can't, you know. Part of being human is to just feel things. We have a relationship with all of our senses. That's how our nervous system works. We have this beautiful vagus nerve that touches on every part of our body. It is there to keep, to wake us up, to get organs going. And, um, I don't know. I could say a lot of other things. See, I really want to make, I just want to go on and on and on.

[00:24:53] I'm not going to let myself do that right now. Um, but I'm going to be really vulnerable and post this video for myself. You can watch it. You can not watch it. I'm doing it for myself because I am creating the relationship in my nervous system, between the idea of doing something and doing it and, and allowing the resistance and the fear and the anxiety to be there and to keep practicing showing up anyway, not forcing myself, right not like overpowering myself, but to be there through these things with my anxiety, being willing to sound like an idiot, being willing to make mistakes, but literally I have now moved myself out of, um, a freeze moment. And in my body, I am not experiencing those same physiological symptoms. Like my throat feels a little tight, but not what it was before. My belly feels fine. I'm a little fluttery in the chest. I could take a deep breath. I am not crying. I love crying by the way, but I am not crying. I am smiling. Am relaxed. I just am showing up and being who I want to be.

[00:26:49] And I'm going to post this on the internet, which feels a little scary, but I'm going to do it anyway, because I'm want to be an example of what's possible. That, to show that dealing with pain and anxiety does not have to be complicated. It may not be easy, but it isn't complicated. So I want to share that because that is a thought that gives me a sense of possibility. And I love possibility. I see it in me and I see it in you. And I see it in Lionel, so I'll say goodbye, thanks.

[00:27:40] I want to honor myself for its nervous system response of a dorsal freeze. My fear might have been unfounded or illogical, but the physiological experience of fear was a hundred percent real. It was felt in my body and that's what my body mind felt like I needed to do to survive.

[00:28:02] I look back and think about that memory with all the love that I want to generate for that part of Deb who just shut down. For that me who couldn't cope in that time. It's okay to not be able to cope sometimes. It's okay to not be okay. We can let ourselves be okay not being okay. And when we do that, we also change our physiological experience. Which then allows us to move through our nervous system states and see that they're dynamic and that they come and go. And that an emotion is a temporary sensory experience. When we have it, that it leaves us. We have a different one that it leaves us.

[00:28:54] We can, we can kind of create a treasure map, like a old pirate map. We mark our way towards sensations or experiences that we would like to have finding our way towards teaching our brain how to pay attention to neutral or positive sensations or emotions. And say yes, please. I would like more of that. At the same time, holding ourselves in grace and beauty and love and care for whatever emotion we find ourselves in.

[00:29:28] We can let shame and fear be a trigger for love and compassion for ourselves. For the nervous system state that we find ourselves in currently.

[00:29:39] Thank you for listening. I am taking a little break from having an open calendar for consults. Um, but it will magically turn back on in the new year and I will be happy to start working with people again, one-on-one in my eight week pain recovery program but please follow me on Instagram. Listen to my podcast. Take any lessons here that sound helpful to you and start to begin to apply to your life, to your nervous system, to your mind, body experience. With the question, how is this possible for me? What can I learn to experience differently, and then see what happens?

[00:30:22] If you have any questions, pop in on Instagram and ask me questions in the post related to this episode, happy to answer and share whatever thoughts I might have . Thanks so much.

View Details

Episode 37 of Move With Deb, the Podcast is all about my inadvertent discovery of my own cognitive-somatic neuro-rewiring. Or as I sometimes lovingly think about it as training my dog of a mindbody. Or even simpler, I am untriggering myself.

Language can be so imprecise in these moments and can be our greatest ally and tool. I hope you enjoy this episode and try applying some of the skills in your own life.

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

The Anxiety MD instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theanxietymd/

Dr. Huberman's lecture on Learning - (it's long but I loved it) https://youtu.be/Oo7hQapFe3M

Transcript:

[00:00:50] Welcome to Move With Deb, the podcast. This is episode number 37. Today's episode, I'm going to talk about the mind body process of moving back to a place that has difficult memories. This is my experience. I'm not saying you should move back to a place that has difficult memories, but sometimes we find ourselves in places in which we've had hard times in the past, and I'm going to share this surprising, nervous system magic I unknowingly made for myself that gives me tremendous hope and excitement.

[00:01:26] So I've got two awesome resources to recommend. One is Dr. Andrew Huberman's lecture on the biology of learning. And if you've listened to this podcast, you'll probably know I am a giant, Huberhead, uh, Huberman fan of his Huberman Lab podcast. I love learning from him. He really explains things in simple language, and I can make links and associations with mind, body mechanisms that I observe in myself and my clients. And I just love knowing things. I love learning. Learning is kind of an exciting place to put my brain. As I learn and teach with this mind body process, we want to find places to put our brain because otherwise it'll just kind of run around the house like an untrained dog and eat your slippers and, um, uh, make a mess in the bathroom and eat all the toilet paper. So we want to tell the brain where to go, tell the brain what to do with this spotlight of attention that we have going on all the time.

[00:02:33] So one of the life-changing lessons I've learned from him is the agitating effect of the chemicals of learning. So he talks about acetylcholine, which is released during learning process, and that is activating. It creates energy in the body that is essential for focus, but if you're like me, a recovering perfectionist and you have negative beliefs about failing and have created a belief system around feeling discomfort. And then the fear of failure just becomes amplified because these natural chemically inducing processes of learning, bring with them discomfort.

[00:03:13] We're always interpreting our sensory experience and we make meaning. This is part of how we train the brain to amplify the experience of pain and when we mix that in with the thoughts and beliefs of fear, which some of them, you know, are real, when your doctor tells you, you know, you're destroying your joints, that paints this evocative picture. And that information creates our nervous systems sense of self protection.

[00:03:43] So if we interpret failure and the activating sensory experience of learning as something negative about us, we're going to want to avoid this experience at all costs. So we feel the discomfort and then the fear of failure that becomes amplified because we've created a certain meaning about what is a natural neurochemical process that is attributed to learning. So we actually become kind of afraid of the thing that happens when we are learning. So we want to train ourselves into a place of having willingness and a safe experience of this sympathetic activation. We want to go from avoidance to willingness. From fear to curiosity. You want to be able to expand our window of tolerance to allow for activating sympathetic nervous system activity. If you know anything about polyvagal theory, we have this ventral vagal resourced space, a sense of home, and then we have what's called sympathetic activation. And then we have dorsal activation and those are just different nervous system states. One is resting and repair. One is activating and energizing and it's normal for our human physiology to have all of those things. Those are all a part of living a human life. But we can learn that danger is in any of these places. We can learn that sympathetic activation feels scary. We can even learn that dorsal activation feels scary and then we like don't even allow ourselves to rest, right? Because we have meaning placed on these things. This is why learning is brilliant.

[00:05:41] We can change our experience of meaning and then our physiological experience of that idea becomes different. So we want to reinterpret that uncomfortable physiological experience as one that I feel neutral about, or even that I embrace, because now that zizzy feeling tells me I'm in a learning mode. And then my brain just like, yeah, go neurons, go, go, neurons, go let's go learn!

[00:06:11] These are also based on me being the person choosing. I am putting myself in this situation to choose, to learn, to do things on purpose. That's also a part of it, it's very, very hard to create willingness and curiosity when you also feel like you're being made to do something and forced to do something you don't want to do.

[00:06:32] Another favorite quote from this lecture was, is very hard to control the mind with the mind, use the body to control the mind. Now I'm not a fan of the word control, but I agree with this concept, I would phrase it as trying to create change only through our cognitive thinking brain will often fail because honestly we can think anything.

[00:06:54] We got like 60, 80,000 thoughts running around in our brain. They're not all awesome. They're not all true. Right? I can string together the words pink pineapples tastes like blueberries, or I'm so glad that I'm nine feet tall because I can reach the top of the cabinet or I'm so stupid and dumb for ever believing anybody will listen to this podcast.

[00:07:16] Ooh. Okay. One of those thoughts created a sensation in my body. It wasn't pleasant. I'll let you guess which one. But that sensation in my body is a powerful signal to me that I have a fear or a belief about my work. Now it's a mild sensation of tension when I think that thought. I can also think the thought I am proud of me for creating a podcast in which I help people understand the relationship between their mind and their body better. When I think that thought, which I believe I feel warmth and like a deep exhale comes out of the middle of me.

[00:07:55] So those mechanisms of listening through the body with the somatic tools I'm going to explain as this podcast goes on how using our body to create our experience, rather than just letting our thoughts run the show, but also learning how to use thoughts on purpose to train the brain, moving our bespoke mind, body together towards the pursuit of your goals. They work together it's not like mind only, or body only. It's about developing the skill of this internal conversation.

[00:08:32] Dr. Huberman in his learning lecture says that after 25 only behaviors are protocols. So that just means intentional practices enhance neuroplasticity, which is a fancy word for learning. And without alertness, there is no learning and remember, alertness can be misinterpreted as anxiety. So just hang out with me here. So much of our perception is driven through our visual cortex. Focus follows visual focus. Our eyes are the only part of our nervous system that live outside of our cranial vault. Getting alert and focused is a process within which we should expect and embrace errors because errors create alertness and focus, and we can only learn in alertness and focus. So we can affect change in our nervous system, through behavior tools, things that we do or things that we avoid, through pharmacology and brain machine interface. But only behaviors or protocols again, which is intentional practicing create neuroplasticity. So we might need both.

[00:09:45] We want to affect change in our nervous system, but long-term change comes through neuro-plasticity. So this is about creating an active living protocol. Or as I like to say, I dynamic embodied learning experience. Where we make discovering and then teaching the nervous system, which includes the brain, the spinal cord and the connection to the organs for these two way conversations. Neuroplasticity is the ability to you change in response to experience.

[00:10:18] Recently I had two very contrasting mind-body experiences that stood out to me like a beacon in a way that I'd never experienced before, probably because I was never trying to look through my lived experience, with this framework, and wow it's like the matrix. When you begin to see it, you can't unsee it.

[00:10:38] I guess I'll start with my first experience. I went back to where I haven't lived for 10 years. And I haven't visited for two years, uh, because pandemic and so much has changed in my little neighborhood, it was kind of intense to be there. I'm planning on moving back. And what I noticed were two things happening. I was either in judging brain or I was in time-traveling brain. They were both kind of unpleasant experiences, very activating and creating an avoidant adversive reaction in my body. The first two days I felt really off-kilter, my brain was like, oh, you lived here yesterday. Cause like when it was nighttime, I could just walk to the bathroom in the dark with ease in a way that my body remembered literally, like I still live there. And then during the day, some things were new and some things were old.

[00:11:30] The things that old were remembered. The things that were new were a little jarring. I literally felt out of time. I could remember times 10 years ago that were like during my breakup and my store closing and my move and my mother being sick, like it was currently happening, like a felt sense of it. Not like a memory that you look back on that you only remember when you think about it.

[00:11:58] Like a memory, just like that's in my body. So it, it wasn't even as strong as like a flashback, but just that, all the feelings that I had going on at that time were just showing up in my body now. And so when I walked outside of my apartment, I was confronted with things that were similar, but different. It's like an old TV show when they changed the actor for the same character. There's the time that your brain takes to integrate that new person into the same role. Like Darren on Bewitched or Becky on Roseanne, or even every time there's a new Doctor on Doctor Who, even though for that, we're anticipating the change, but there's this lag time process of reminding yourself that it's the same character just played by a different person.

[00:12:50] It was a jarring and unpleasant experience that kicked up some fear, is moving back the right choice. The fear was interpreted through language in my brain. "Is moving back the right choice?" "I don't feel excited." "This doesn't feel like home." You know, my, my whole body was in the, like, we left here energy because in my out of time brain, I was also still leaving. So it's very strange, like I'm in like leaving brain and I'm also in like moving back brain. So knowing something about our nervous system and about creating change in my mind body experience on purpose, I decided to do something about it and see what happened. I made an experiment.

[00:13:35] For two days, I took a slow, intentional walk around my neighborhood. I got a cup of coffee and I began to explore. And I would just scan my eyes places, letting them take in the new information . Just notice how strongly my brain wanted to label things as good or bad. I noticed usually that things that were familiar to me, I labeled as good. Things that were new and different were bad, signs of gentrification that's bad. It was a very simplistic impulse, this labeling. But the impulse to label things good or bad is a habit and a practice that creates our embodied experience. When I work with clients, we try to stop and drop the labeling experience of sensations or emotions as good or bad and develop the skill of curious, awareness, rather than categorization, which sets our brains prediction. And then we live out that judgment until it gets updated, but that process of updating can be tedious and sometimes fraught. So using this time to practice the skill of developing this neutral, curious awareness was a good use of my time. Instead of like just kind of jumping to all these conclusions, I was like, what if I don't even know what it is that I'm thinking and feeling? Let's get curious.

[00:15:00] So I look at the shape of the buildings and I would just let my eyes move over them. Taking in all the varied shapes, the varied colors, the varied textures. I'd feel the wobbliness of the cobblestones under my feet. I walked to the pier and I took in the sky and the water and the humans around me.

[00:15:22] I let myself be delighted by a teacher teaching a whole concept to a group of children and looking at their pile of backpacks that were all strewn about the ground. I just let myself feel present and welcome and a part of things. As I move through block by block, inviting myself to feel connected and curious. The next day I woke up and I felt much less agitation. I could notice my building curiosity about leaving the house. What's down this street? What's it going to be like to get from point A to point B? What will it feel like to live in this apartment knowing that I have these cognitive somatic tools on my side? It was a small activity with a large impact.

[00:16:11] After this, I read on Instagram, a post from anxiety MD, Dr. Russell Kennedy, where he talks about the amygdala is often called the fear center of the brain. And this is what he says. I like to think of it as the emotional reaction center of the brain. The amygdala never forgets and will re react to anything that it perceives and has ever hurt you in the past.

[00:16:34] The amygdala also has no sense of time. When something comes into your awareness that has hurt you in the past, the amygdala fires up and sends you back to the time of the original trauma, depending on the intensity of the pain of the past, the amygdala will cue an emotional reaction. Typically the more intense the memory, the stronger and the reaction. Oftentimes, we may not even be consciously aware of what is triggering us in our present environment. This is often where panic attacks originate. The brain, holding a memory out of time, it will fire the alarm in the body when anything in our present world resembles that of our original pain or trauma. Alarm fired memory, emotional time travel.

[00:17:22] So, this is in my words, our physiology responds unless we have learned to rewire our response to that stimuli and update the prediction. I like to start with creating awareness because awareness replants us in the now time and creates space between the stimulus and the response, which naturally quiets the alarm and allows for a real threat assessment, like anything right now, present moment dangerous. And then we get to apply the tool and the skill of self friendship and self-soothing. Talking to that fear body that lives inside of us. It's not so much about never having the alarm go off. It's about how we respond to an alarm being fired. And the way that we respond to the alarm being fired is the way that we rewire the alarm in the first place.

[00:18:18] So then I came back to Florida and whoa. Wow! It was like my living classroom experiment proved itself true. My whole body relaxed. I felt connected and energized and ready to work. My agitation was gone. Things I noticed were my eyes without effort would scan the sky and look at the clouds and my body would feel warm and happy. I noticed the trees and the birds. I sought them out as anchors for my mind body. Now these were what I considered survival techniques from a year ago that I created on purpose to help me find sanity and plant what I call joy seeds for this uprooted in Florida during COVID experience that I had. I did not like being here. I didn't want to be here. I was scared and angry a lot of the time. And when it made sense that life was what it was. I decided I was choosing to be here on purpose and I got curious to see if I could actually create a positive experience for myself because honestly I was sick of being miserable and fucked up. So I turned the spotlight of my attention on things that felt neutral or pleasant to my senses. I smelled my coffee beans before making coffee. I danced silly dances and made up songs to help me allow and process my emotions. I kept myself good company while I felt things. I was captivated by the beauty of the clouds, and I decided that clouds were my friends, and we would greet each other throughout the day. I would sing songs to them with gratitude for their beauty. I found ways to connect to others and be creative. I built a new temporary home that helped me care better for me even while not wanting to be here.

[00:20:16] And then when I got back my body remembered, cause I've been gone for a few months now. So that might not have been clear. I was away back in California for a few months, when I arrived back in Florida, my body remembered. Now, remember, I still don't want to live here but I'm not feeling aversion. What I'm feeling is love and completion. And that gives me great hope that I will also be able to find a way to be creative and making my embodied experience feel like what I want. I can use these tools of neuroplasticity for my own benefit to cultivate a mind body practice that's not just about problem solving, but about world-building and conscious creation. Knowing that life is always 50/50, not everything is something that I can control. I am not a positive vibes only person. But how we respond to sensory input, stimuli and the world around us through these powerful tools of perception and meaning are what creates our lived experience.

[00:21:29] Life is not just something that happens to you. We are co-creators whether we are aware of it or not. So taking simple steps towards creating a more mind-body learning, skills based approach, can be a gift of empowerment in a world that is not egalitarian and doesn't teach you these things.

[00:21:52] Anybody can learn to have a more loving, more connected, more desired mind body experience through the magic of neuroplasticity. If you're curious about this process and want to know more, I've actually turned off my consult calendar but I'll be back on in the new year. So I'm happy to talk to you, but listen to my podcasts, follow me on Instagram. Just start thinking about how this might be possible for you. Even just reflect on moments in times of transition for you when you moved from something that was unpleasant as something that was pleasant. Just start creating your own little mind, body experiment lab for yourself. You know, get curious. Curiosity, unlocks the door to new experiences, new mind, body experiences. This is where we engage in the dynamic present moment, updating predictions process of neuroplasticity. I hope this episode was helpful for you. I am always delighted by trying to find new stories and ways to share these concepts and experiences with you.

[00:23:12] And I appreciate your listening. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day.

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Ok y'all. I know you love to listen to me talk about my mindbody practice but like I could just be doing it and keeping it to myself. This podcast is for you to begin to make connections and learn to practice and apply these skills in your life.

So I created a short snack sized skills podcast version of the Somatic Smile activity for you to take with you and practice. I'm going to get into this in next week's podcast but hey be willing to fail or not be good at this. Failing creates focus which primes us for learning. :)

[00:00:50] Hi, and welcome to Move With Deb the podcast. This is episode 36. And I wanted to just share with you the small discreet example of a somatic smile. So this is a bit of a repeat. But it's the description of a somatic smile without all of the meta description, so that you can use this to practice with.

[00:01:17] When I am having intense negative sensations in my body, I often like to place what I call a somatic smile. The smile actually relates to our polyvagal nerve and it is the way that we teach our body, that we're feeling okay. So we want it to be a real smile, not like a fake smile. You know what a fake smile feels like, a fake smile feels kind of terrible, right?

[00:01:47] There's like one thing happening in your face, but there's something else happening on the inside. of you. We want a real smile. It could even just be the willingness to try smile, right? Just the practice of smile, creating a little warmth, a little lightness inside of us. So, because I am well practiced at this, it's easy for me. It's not necessarily going to be easy for you when you first start that's okay. That's just learning.

[00:02:22] But the idea of a somatic smile is so cool. So in a body part that is feeling some unpleasant sensations. I will often place what I call a somatic smile. Which means I literally smile. And then I imagine that smile, those sensations of warmth connection, self love to be like placed in that body part.

[00:02:49] I just meet it with the smile. The smile is me creating love for me, with me, all the mes. I often do this when I'm moving. If I'm walking and I find something that feels uncomfortable. Normally what happens is then I feel an arousal of fear. A little fear comes in. A little worry, comes in. My brain starts to offer me ideas about what's happening inside of my body. And I'd just like to say, thank you. And then I send a somatic smile to that part. And I just say that we're safe, that there's nothing wrong with my body. This is just a sensation of fear.

[00:03:32] And then just keep smiling, practicing. And I keep walking. I do the activity. I invite in a sense of ease and peace while I am doing the activity, while I'm walking. The work is to create a corrective experience for our brain when we are experiencing the unpleasant sensation.

[00:03:53] So yes, we can relax and do all of these things ahead of time. We can create some visualizations, but when the rubber meets the road, when we're actually doing it, that's when we need to have that conversation about safety with our nervous system. I invite you to practice, to meet yourself with grace and love, curiosity, and friendship while practicing.

[00:04:17] That's how you will one, want to do it more often, growing the experience of love, connection, self friendship, curiosity, and unwiring hypersensitivity, hyper-reactivity fear and pain. We're wiring towards something, which means that we're automatically wiring away. If there's something that we want to experience less, we have to wire towards something we want to experience more.

[00:04:49] Thank you for listening to this. I hope it's been helpful. Just keep practicing. I'm Deb, you can follow me on Instagram @movewithdeb where I'm hoping to share more tips, tricks, and tools on how to wire your brain away from pain and towards safety.

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Welcome to Episode 35. I wanted to continue the conversation I started last week about Fear language in Trauma healing. But also what if there is danger? What if the systems we need to engage in for our lives to be operating with ease are rife with racism, sexism, fat phobia, trans phobia and so on? How can we use these tools and other ones in a skillful way for our highest benefit?

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com
Kai Cheng Thom - https://kaichengthom.com/

Transcript:

MWDEP35

[00:00:50] I want to read this piece by Canadian writer and social worker Kai Cheng Thom. She's written a number of books, including novel, Fierce Femmes and Notorious Liars, A Dangerous Trans Girl's Confabulous Memoir, a poetry collection called No Homeland, a children's book called From The Stars To The Sky, To The Fish In The Sea and I Hope We Choose Love, A Trans Girls Notes From The End Of The World, a book of essays centered on transformative justice. I am interested in reading all of those, but I wanted to share this piece that I saw posted in 2020. In which she writes:

[00:01:35] "I think the major difference between a social justice and a white colonial lens on trauma is the assumption that trauma recovery is the reclamation of safety. That safety is a resource that is simply out there for the taking and all we need to do is work hard enough at therapy. This is in quotes." I was once at a training seminar, in Toronto led by a famous and beloved somatic psychologist. She spoke brilliantly. I asked her how healing from trauma was possible for people, for whom violence and danger are part of everyday life. She said it was not."

[00:02:15] Colonial psychology and psychiatry reveal their allegiance to the status quo and their approach to trauma. That resourcing must come from within oneself rather than from the collective. That trauma recovery is feeling safe in society. When in fact society is the source of trauma. Colonial somatics and psychotherapies teach that the body must relearn to perceive safety, but the bodies of the oppressed are rightly interpreting danger.

[00:02:46] Our triggers and explosive rage, our dissociation and perfect submission are in fact skills that have kept us alive. The somatics of social justice cannot, in parentheses, "I believe" close parentheses, be a somatics rooted in the colonial frameworks of psychology, psychiatry, or other models linked to the dominance of the nation state. Psychology was not always this way, but has become increasingly so over time.

[00:03:18] The somatics of social justice cannot be aimed at restoring the bodies to a state of homeostasis slash neutrality. We must be careful of popular languaging, such as the regulation of nervous system and emotion, which implies the control and domination of mind over emotion and sensation. Because we're not in the end, preparing the body to return to the general safety of society, parentheses this would be gaslighting, close parentheses, we are preparing the body essentially for struggle, training for better survival and the ability to experience joy in the midst of great danger. Quote in the cauldron of social justice healing praxis. We must aim for the relationality that has the potential to generate social change, to generate insurrection, we must be prepared to challenge norms, acknowledge danger, embrace struggle, take risks. Above all we must not overemphasize the importance of individual work, which is important indeed, to the detriment of a somatics that also prepares us essentially for war. Somatics that allow us to organize together, fight together, live together, love each other.

[00:04:46] So that piece, is incredibly powerful because it really speaks to the fact that there are moments and instances, not just in trauma of things that have happened to us in the past, but also the very real danger that some people face in certain situations.

[00:05:10] We can look at safety through this lens and also bring in the lens of, am I safe right now? Right. So we can prepare for times that might feel unsafe. Like if you are a fat person trying to navigate, medical care, which is often unsafe. We can make plans. We can call in comrades. We can find best practices. We can prepare ourselves as best as possible. And we can do the nervous system resourcing that I teach, which is about acknowledging, allowing, and processing emotion. We can understand that we are perfectly whole and worthy beings, living, surviving, thriving, and sometimes not, in imperfect systems and systems that are organized to deny our wholeness.

[00:06:12] And this is the dance between the mind and the body, between the body and society. And I am one person, but I help people in this work by telling themselves the truth of their feelings about something. I think what she says is so brilliant, which is, all of us have operated for our survival, right? So that includes dissociating. That includes submission. That includes rage. And all of them make sense. When we have a feeling or sensation, when we have pain in our body, we can ask ourselves what's going on. What am I feeling that maybe I'm not allowing myself to feel? Or what is the fear?

[00:07:03] We think about fear as the driver of protection. There's a nervous system response being motivated by fear, and we can ask ourselves, why are we afraid? And sometimes we're afraid because we're anticipating harm. Sometimes we're afraid because we have been harmed in the past and we're afraid of it happening again.

[00:07:25] There's a lot of room when we slow down. When we choose to tell ourselves the story of our own survival. And when we look to our community and think about how many incredible resources there are to be shared. Sometimes that means telling somebody who knows what you're going through, that you are scared. We always want to look at allowing and processing an emotion rather than suppressing as a part of our healing.

[00:07:59] So I just wanted to share that powerful piece. I think it goes along with the conversations that we hear now through trauma recovery, through somatics. There's often this overemphasis on balance and calm. What I am noticing both in myself and my own healing and in the healing process of the people I get to work with is, trying to tell somebody to find calm when they're suppressing rage, in some ways reinforcing this idea that there's something wrong with them. Reinforcing the idea that somehow rage is not a completely reasonable response to oppression, to harm.

[00:08:47] And we can learn to feel all feelings and create welcome for all feelings to be felt. So what we want is to create the practice and habit of feeling without sending our nervous system into overwhelm, into fight or flight or into shut down into freeze. And that is how we heal. And sometimes that means standing on the front lines and doing something brave. Sometimes that means checking out. Sometimes that means learning to be with. And we can learn to be with, by asking for help. We can learn to be with, by watching other people do it. We can learn to be with, by practicing. Creating opportunities for ourselves to practice a new skill. Emotional allowance and regulation is a skill. And when we get good at it, it means that we can also show up in ways in which we have protected ourselves somewhat from the harm that we are subject to. I am blessed to learn from BIPOC and marginalized folks who are telling their truths that yes, there is healing and a lack of safety simultaneously. We can become storytellers of our own wellness, but not if we have to pretend like there aren't systems of harm being actively engaged.

[00:10:15] We can't deny that there are social determinants of health. I teach this in my program. I have an entire supplemental section and it's not book learning. It's people in marginalized communities, having their own conversations about how stress illness arise and affect their communities. And so I put that in there because those are things that are true and they had to be said. I wanted people to see themselves reflected in this work.

[00:10:47] And also we do the work of changing this inner conversation, creating awareness building on this pain science education. And creating the ability to pay attention and notice the change and shift in sensations, the change in shift in symptoms. And then we build on that and we go from there. There's always some entry point. You don't have to be perfectly safe. We don't have to have this return to safety. Safety is a felt sense in the body. And some people can experience that felt sense of safety in very chaotic environments. And some people can feel the opposite of a sense of safety. Some people can feel abject terror in what other people would experience as being very ordinary and very safe.

[00:11:40] So this is why it's important, not to think about what we should be feeling, but to be paying attention to what we are feeling and then learning how to allow feeling. A lot of times, what I really see is when we feel fear, we push it away. And then what we're actually feeling is resistance to feeling. And resistance is a very loud feeling in the body.

[00:12:11] What often happens is when we open the door to fear, it just comes in, it transforms itself into a young human, with a big heart who is looking for love. I see that all the time, but when it's on the other side of the door, it looks like a terrifying monster. And that is the resistance to the feeling.

[00:12:33] When we let a feeling in, learn how to be with, and how to allow it, learn how to be feeling human beings who do feel hurt and pain, as well as joy and ecstasy and connection, then that fear gets to be felt and gets to be incorporated. Of course, we feel fear. We are living through a very terrifying experience right now.

[00:13:00] It's important to recognize that is okay to feel fear. That feeling fear is part of both the human condition, but also a working nervous system. A working mind body system feels fear. When we can allow ourselves to feel fear. We can also assess in this present moment am I in danger? When we allow ourselves to feel fear, we can begin to get curious and ask ourselves why, ask ourselves what's up? How do I care for you? What do you need?

[00:13:37] Because when we feel resistance, all we want is to not feel. And then we take action. To suppress feelings, we take actions to not feel. And when you are working so hard at not feeling, there's no room for curiosity, you can't have both feeling and allowing a feeling, leaning into curiosity and self-compassion and repression and resistance at the same time.

[00:14:07] Which that doesn't mean go feel the biggest feelings and let them sweep you away. It's about building skill, building the ability to lean in for a moment. Open that door just a little crack and see what that is to feel fear. And use the beautiful tool of somatic tracking to keep yourself good company while you experience an emotion.

[00:14:30] Then come back to the place where you start asking yourself, what is the felt sense of safety? When do I notice it? When you feel it and you have moments of it, you can say. Oh, hello. I have been waiting for you. I am supposed to notice when I feel this felt sense of safety. So when it happens, you can pay attention, celebrate it, get to know it, roll around in it, make out with it.

[00:14:59] Know that that felt sense of safety is a feeling that you can have. Even if it's for a blip or a moment. Notice, what are you looking at when you're feeling it? What are you thinking when you're feeling it? Who's around you? What is it like?

[00:15:16] And just know that if you feel it for a second, you can feel it for two seconds and you can water it and tend it and grow it. There's lots of skills I talk about all the time on this podcast about how we can scaffold, build ourselves some assistance around this growing of safety inside of us process.

[00:15:42] What's true is that a lot of this is complex, I may or may not be the person to help guide you through this process, but I am a person who understands that this is true, and I have a lot of resources that I always try to share. So if at any point you are curious about how this mind, body, healing can work, please reach out to me. Please book a curiosity call. Please listen to my podcast. Please start thinking, at least, that healing is a possibility for you because you have a brain and a body and a nervous system. And anybody who has those can create healing and we'll just keep moving ourselves forward. And also finding ways to collectively come together to mitigate some of the harm that's created by these systems. I'm looking forward to trying to get more into these conversations and bringing guests on and talking more about it. It'll probably happen in the new year once I get settled, but I am excited to be at the very least thinking about these ideas, articulating them with you. Even if I'm doing it in the very beginning baby stages of this process.

[00:17:15] That is what I've got to share with you today. I hope that it's helpful. I hope that it gives you something to think about. And of course, with thinking, I always want you to be feeling. Thank you for listening.

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Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript:

[00:00:50] This is episode 34 of the Move With Deb podcast. I am going to share with you some of my thoughts about some of the language that is used around trauma and somatics. I hope you enjoy today's podcast. Thank you.

[00:01:07] I never want anybody to feel afraid by language that people use about trauma. About the body. About the nervous system. I find some educators who are very talented. Who are creating great service to people about popularizing, mental health and mind body concepts for the general public in very powerful ways. And also I find that colloquially, the language can create fear.

[00:01:47] As a bodyworker I have often had conversations with my clients about trauma being stored in their body. And I do not like this word stored because it one reinforces this idea that there's like something stuck, that's like in your cells. That's in your body. That's that's stuck in there and then you have to like, get it out, remove it, change it.

[00:02:14] There is no memory storage mechanism in the tissue. You experience it in the body, but it is created in the brain. And what we understand about the brain and neuroplasticity is that something is wired, you can unwire it and you can wire to something else. And that concept gives me incredible hope because just as quickly as people turning their pain off in an instant, in an overnight, like I had around my knee pain.

[00:02:42] I did not have to go through the trauma of being a people pleaser, of being a fat kid who was told that every failure in their life is based on their body. That my pain is based on my degenerative osteoarthritis and that, I'm aging and I'm fat. And I, this is just going to be this downward slope that I'll never recover from until I get a joint replacement. And then there's that whole process of healing. Lots and lots and lots of meaning, lots and lots of thoughts. Lots of fear. And what I want to say is I didn't have to resolve any of that. I didn't have to resolve all of the unpleasant negative experiences of having grown up as a person being told that their body is wrong.

[00:03:30] I don't believe that anymore. But I was still experiencing knee pain, until I understood that this pain was related to my perfectionism. This pain was related to this sense of danger inside my knee, in my body, because I was observing these sensations with alarm.

[00:03:51] And because I was studying this biomechanics work, this is no criticism to that work, but the way that I was viewing it was very high stakes, was very all or nothing. I needed to master this experience and this information. Then I would have the transformation in my body, but not even just for me. It was about my being able to share this information, this skill of alignment, posture, body mechanics, with my clients, with other people in pain. And that intensity of that strong need and desire to excel, be perfect at something before I could teach it and share it created an incredible lack of safety in my own bodymind.

[00:04:43] Anytime I felt a sensation that was unpleasant in my knee that just sent me on a mental and emotional cascade of imposter syndrome. And there were other things going on in my personal life that reinforced this idea that like, oh, I can't help people that I care about.

[00:05:02] So you wouldn't think that pain is complicated like that, right? It is an easier story if you're like, it's your joint. Okay, go fix the joint. That's why you have pain. But once I got this knowledge, I got it from Curable. Got it from Dr. Sarno's Mindbody Prescription. Once I applied that knowledge and took my safety walk throughout that day and the next day, overnight, my knee pain decreased and essentially went away. I don't have knee pain in that knee anymore. I will have occasional human pain that comes and goes, but now what I don't have is fear. So none of that had anything to do with applying any kind of remedy to the joint, but it had a lot to do with, applying a remedy to all of my thoughts about what I'm making this pain mean, who I am as a person, as a teacher, as a healer.

[00:06:00] The sense of force that I create within myself to not make mistakes, to be perfect, have other people see me as helpful. So it's a little more complex, certainly, but it is also amazingly freeing, because as you begin the work of creating this kind of curious friendship and awareness with all of these subconscious processes, all of these survival mechanisms. Like how I am seen by other people, that's part of our surviving mechanisms. That's part of our evolutionary biology. But I can apply new thoughts, a willingness to feel, a willingness to be friends with myself and create self-compassion. And I can do things like lean into these somatic tools like somatic tracking and somatic singing.

[00:07:00] And pretty much you could just use the word somatic for the body. I encourage you to just make up your own somatics. So to go way back to my original point, we want to just check in that we're not believing things about this process that create fear, but that we're looking into ways of creating meaning and exploration of these concepts that relieve fear.

[00:07:25] So the idea and the belief that trauma is stored in the body may not be helpful to you. It may be helpful to you. And if it is helpful to you, that is amazing. If the idea of something being stored in your body is not helpful to you, try the idea that it is felt in your body, trauma is felt in your body.

[00:07:46] We're always talking about dopamine hits and dopamine hits, and you know, it it's accurate, but not accurate. I think as language gets popularized, it also takes on its own meaning. And then we start using it as if it makes sense, but it makes sense. Right?

[00:08:07] Meaning is highly important. It's important in the experience of pain. Whether or not the brain decides that is sensation or a nociception, like a change in temperature, pressure or chemical is dangerous or not dangerous is based on meaning. And meaning is it's like our brains experienced throughout our lived experience can also be, if you look at epigenetics could be through our lived experience as also related by our ancestors. But meaning is also variable and can be changed in a moment.

[00:08:44] As I like to repeat pretty often, I think on here, I talk about people's experience of their pain, changing by learning this pain science education information. That when you embody some new information about what you're feeling, then what you're feeling changes. And that is absolutely a hundred percent true. And so we can begin the process of creating curiosity, creating a willingness to investigate, what these sensations mean, why they're happening, right. It's not about having to like, get something out of you, but maybe a willingness to meet that with love. Meet that with curiosity, meet that with, oh, Hey, I see that I am having a huge reaction. Can I be a witness to myself having a huge reaction? And also there are other people out in the world who can help you. So you're not alone in this process, but I just want to encourage you to pay attention to how you apply and understand these concepts.

[00:09:56] So I'd say the same thing happens for me when I hear people talking about polyvagal theory. I know that they place it on a hierarchy. I do not find that framework to be really useful for me. I like to think of our polyvagal states as natural states that we move in and out. And that it's very beneficial to increase our ability to get to ventral vagal.

[00:10:20] But when we're in sympathetic or dorsal, like let's just notice where we are. Let's just see how did we travel here? And then we went to build and increase that beautiful window of tolerance that helps tell our nervous system that we are okay. That we are not in danger. How do we do that?

[00:10:38] There's a sensing part of that. There's also the cognitive part of that, right? Sometimes they're in conflict. There could be, we feel danger, like anxiety, but then when we look around the room, we're sitting at a desk looking at our email. Well, then the cognitive part of our brain can be like, I know that you're feeling this anxiety, you're feeling fear, but I want to tell you that you're safe right now because our visual cortex, our brain can observe the world around us and notice that we're sitting in a chair and we're safe, regardless of the fact that our body doesn't feel safe.

[00:11:14] So one of them is not wrong. And one of them is not right. That's not what this is about. This is about using the skills of both our cognitive thinking brain and our feeling sensing somatic brain. So that the skills of both of them help us create the life that we want to be living. I often talk about that anxiety itself is just a feeling, just the felt sense of fear. And yes, it's unpleasant, then we create a lot of conditioned responses and experiences by which we never have to feel that.

[00:11:54] But what if we felt it? What if we allowed ourselves to feel it? And then through that willingness of being able to feel it, we take the brave action and then unwire that physiological experience. So it's dynamic, which is exciting, but also kind of difficult because it's not a hundred percent prescriptive.

[00:12:14] It's not a take this, do this, but if you listen to my podcast, you will hear me say certain things over and over again. And you just want to start where you are. You want to respect where we are, even if we are on the road to being someplace else. Because the wishing and desiring that we were someplace else has a felt sense in the body.

[00:12:36] So if we can create that love and curiosity and willingness to just be where we are in this moment, knowing that we are on the road to rewiring our brain and our embodied experience toward something that feels more welcome, towards something that feels more whole for all of us to show up in. More embodied, more empowered, and those things are possible. They are not possible through good vibes only. They are not possible without sitting with discomfort.

[00:13:08] That's my episode today. If you are curious about learning more about how to rewire your brain away from pain and towards, increased tolerance of sensory experiences, emotional and physical, please reach out to me.

[00:13:27] I am currently offering an eight week what I call pain recovery program, trained by Dr. Schubiner. and aligned with Alan Gordon's work from the pain psychology center, and also is trauma informed, health at every size, all bodies welcome space.

[00:13:47] I hope you're having a wonderful day. And thank you so much for listening to Move With Deb.

View Details

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Dr. Huberman's dopamine lecture - https://hubermanlab.com/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motivation-focus-and-satisfaction/

Article on labeling emotions -
https://www.psypost.org/2021/09/adolescents-who-are-better-at-identifying-their-feelings-are-less-likely-to-experience-anxiety-and-depression-in-response-to-stress-61907

Transcript:

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to Move With Deb the podcast. This is episode number 33. And today I'm just going to talk a little bit and share some of my somatic singing practice with you. So. There's a little piece in it that I recorded while in my car. So I apologize that the audio of it is not awesome. Uh, but I think the information is interesting. It's me responding to a piece of a lecture in Dr. Andrew Huberman's two hour podcast about dopamine. So if you like to dive deep into neuroscience and learn some interesting things. How our brain communicates inside of itself, how wow, what even neuro-transmitters are, how neurons work, what dopamine is. He really describes the mechanisms by which our brain does things.

[00:02:00] I'm listening to a lecture on dopamine from Dr. Andrew Huberman. He's like when you want to increase your baseline in dopamine, when you're trying to reach a goal, do not depend on the reward of achieving the goal to give you the increase in the reward, dopamine is the reward chemical. So he said to lean in to the difficult part, and that is where you get your reward from. So when I talk about believing before evidence that's hacking your dopamine system, When I talk about like becoming friends with difficult feelings for the purpose of future you, that is hacking your dopamine reward system, because you are saying, this is something I am choosing to pursue.

[00:03:03] Even though at this moment, I find this difficult. And you're saying, but I understand that practicing this, is going to benefit me, not just right now, but in the future. But that is what is going to increase your dopamine now. So you're going to get the dopamine, not in the future when it's easy, when like having feelings is easy, but you will get the dopamine like soon, right? From the leaning in to the difficult experience that you're having in the moment, while you're telling yourself this is for your future.

[00:03:46] So the audio from my very enthusiastic car ride, I literally had to pull over into the McDonald's parking lot. And I was like, no, he's saying stuff about dopamine that reminds me of thought work and I have to stop and I have to record my thoughts right now as I'm driving. So I pulled over safely to record my thoughts, but then my phone, like overheated or stopped recording and it was recording through the car and oh, technology, I love you. And I hate you. But what it missed was my disco version of this dopamine experience that he was describing, which is the way to create an increase in your baseline in dopamine is not to put all your, your hopes on the dopamine reward of the thing in the future, but on the challenge of whatever the task is in the moment.

[00:04:53] I'm sure I will continue to find ways to explain how we kind of work with our neuromodulators. I don't want to say the word hack because it's not really a hack. It's more of a dance. It's like the, I feel this arousal, or when I leave this experience or I'm feeling this kind of agitation, like maybe this agitation is acetylcholine and maybe like this drop-in energy is, you know, like there are things that we need in our body. We need food, we need sleep, but sometimes all that's happening is a neurochemical process that we narrate with words. And when we get into the habit and skill of kind of narrating on purpose using this cognitive power of our brains to say words in a way that are felt by the body that give us energy if we want energy. Or to help us feel more calm, if we want to feel more calm, right. To create whatever embodied feeling state we want to be experiencing, we can begin to develop that process. We can begin to develop that process by using language as an evocative power source.

[00:06:17] So what you missed that didn't get recorded in my little car disco was me singing this song. And now of course I feel embarrassed because it's not, it's not spontaneous anymore, but here we go. It was me thinking about dopamine and thinking about the rewards.

[00:06:37] And now you can't see me, but I'm kind of bouncing back and forth and like pretend snapping my fingers, get in the mood. And I'm like, oh yeah, do it for the dopamine. Do it for the dopamine, do it for the dopamine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do it, for the dopamine, do it, for the dopamine and do it for the dopamine. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah..

[00:07:04] So that song was really about creating some energy around this idea. I love musicals. I love singing to myself. Singing is a part of my somatic practice when I want to create some kind of energy shift or lift a little bit of joy happiness, surprise, delight. Or lean into sadness or just the quality of a feeling. I will often use singing to amplify that feeling in my body. It's really fun to do when you're in your car by yourself or when you're making coffee. Um, that seems to be a place. I do it a lot. When I'm in the kitchen, I have a little bit of a cooking trauma, drama, uh, difficulty.

[00:07:56] And so I often try to bring in, you know, what I call my feeling friends into these difficult experiences to keep me company. Not to distract me. This is not a distraction, right? This is meeting myself in a place of difficulty saying, Hey, I'm recognizing that this is difficult and I'm doing it anyway. And that is what Dr. Huberman was discussing and talking about when he talks about raising our base level of dopamine, this process is exactly that.

[00:08:29] So I like to do it with things that evoke, inside of my body, pleasant or neutral feelings and singing to myself. As you know, oftentimes I'm just like babbling singing silly songs. They're just naturally flowing from random synapses firing in my brain, making me do funny little dances.

[00:08:55] And all of a sudden, my whole, you know, my whole body's moving in a way that feels very organic, that feels very present. That is not really about creating something to be experienced or witnessed or produced or observed, or as a product. Right. I am moving in my life for me. With my energy that I have in this moment, but also what we do know about movement, right?

[00:09:25] All of that research about exercise, you know, giving you energy. It's like, that's what I'm doing. I'm tapping into a source of energy and I'm amplifying it through movement, through sound, through being with myself, creating a sense of self delight. I inevitably end up laughing because I always ended up singing something kind of weird and wacky.

[00:09:49] So yes, sometimes going to the giant gay disco on the rainbow cloud, imagining myself at a tea dance, um, with Dr. Huberman and a giant disco ball and all of our neuro-transmitters are there. And we're having just like a really good time. Right? We're we're creating our energy states on purpose.

[00:10:15] Right. We're learning how to not just be in the bodies we have in this moment, because those are also cultivated. We're always using our brain and our experience and our willingness to be with a, with a challenging emotion or something that feels unpleasant, something that feels like we want to move away from it .

[00:10:40] We are always cultivating our experience. So when we lean into something that feels uncomfortable, creates discomfort, whether that's just the experience of a thought in your mind, whether that's the experience of like having to make a decision and not knowing which one is right as if there is actually a thing as a right decision. Rather than the, what is the next best decision I could make for myself.

[00:11:09] The way we describe things, creates our experience of them. And so this process of getting to play inside of my body mind helps me notice how I move my own energy, how I create my own experience of my world.. It is not an experience that's given to you. That's just experienced by you. It is like, it doesn't just happen. And you walk into it like a, like a cloud of somebody's stinky perfume. It's in fact, something that you co-create using your willingness to feel things. And not just unpleasant or uncomfortable things, but also your willingness to feel things that are pleasant, that are good, that are delightful, or even just things that are boring.

[00:12:00] There's a lot of research that shows when we have more ability to describe our emotions. We see less anxiety, less depression. There was a recent study about teenagers when they had more words to describe emotions, they felt better. And so we can do this kind of, without words, per se, like not necessarily the act of labeling, although that's very helpful, but when we have a greater vocabulary of feelings that lives inside of us, a greater vocabulary of feelings that we are willing to feel, because that's essentially what that is. Then we can recognize, wow, one, this feeling as all feelings are transitory sensory experiences. They come and they go, they come back again and then they go again and they come back again and then they go again, you know? So that is that dance part of it. And then we learn that we are the co-creators of our embodied experience.

[00:13:06] And that sometimes what happens is we just create these conditioned responses about avoiding feelings that we do not want to feel, which makes sense. You don't want to feel something and you feel fear. And you're afraid that this feeling is going to not go away, not change. You're going to be stuck in it forever.

[00:13:29] Maybe you've gone through periods of depression in the past. We oftentimes, when we have a sensation or a feeling that is like a feeling that we've had in the past that we don't want to recreate, it makes sense that we will organize ourselves to not have that experience again. But what is really useful to understand is you literally cannot have that experience again.

[00:13:57] You could have an experience that is like it, but it's only now in the present. So when we apply this information, this new information about feelings that you didn't know then you will have a different experience because if you don't believe that depression is a dark pit that you can't get out.

[00:14:21] Then that thought is not going to create fear inside of you. You can say, a thought about depression like I am recognizing that I am feeling depleted of energy. I am noticing that these are my thoughts and you could get them out of your subconscious, put them down on paper. See them in a little thought buffet.

[00:14:43] And then we just start to practice this. I'm noticing this thought, I'm noticing this feeling practice. I'm noticing when I have this thought, I have this feeling. And then just starting to build more curious awareness, whether it's about a feeling, a sensation in your body, an emotion, a thought, a circumstance.

[00:15:06] We just want to create the willingness to become aware. And to create safety in becoming aware. And just noticing when we want to react and retreat. The answer is not to push yourself to engage or force yourself to do anything. The first answer is just to notice that you have a desire to retreat. And then you can say to yourself, Hey self, I notice that this is the feeling that's coming up.

[00:15:35] So that does involve slowing down. That does involve being with oneself ,that does involve self friendship. And I want to invite you into this sense of curious, willingness to just try. Spend a few moments when you have a strong emotion come on and create some curiosity. Or start playing and then see what happens to your energy.

[00:16:04] It's not about tackling only the hard stuff. It's just about getting to know how your body is synthesizing your experience of the world. Synthesizing your experience of these neuro-transmitters dipping and bumping and zipping and zapping through your body. Creating your lived experience. What is our brain do when it's narrating? Is it a documentary? Is it a horror movie? Is it a romcom? Is it some kind of wild absurdist film, or all of them? Get to know you.

[00:16:42] This is a process by which we can change our experience with our pain. And with our sensory experiences and it doesn't just mean doing meditation. It doesn't just mean reaching some kind of state that feels mysterious and unknowable. And certainly learning to have fun is never really time wasted.

[00:17:07] That's my episode today. If you are curious about learning more about how to rewire your brain away from pain and towards, increased tolerance of sensory experiences, emotional and physical, please reach out to me.

[00:17:26] I am currently offering an eight week what I call pain recovery program, trained by Dr. Schubiner. and aligned with Alan Gordon's work from the pain psychology center, and also is trauma informed, health at every size, all bodies welcome space.

[00:17:46] I hope you're having a wonderful day. And thank you so much for listening to Move With Deb.

View Details

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript.

[00:00:50] Hi, and welcome to Move With Deb the podcast. This is episode 32 and today I'm sharing with you a somatic tracking audio that is based on a video that I made that's up on my website or my YouTube channel.

[00:01:08] Hopefully what you'll hear in this somatic tracking audio is also a meta explanation. As I often like to do, of why you want to do somatic tracking, why it is a useful tool to learn and to practice. And I also go into what I like to call a somatic smile. Which is a tool that I made up and I apply when I am feeling intense sensations or emotions while moving.

[00:01:42] So I hope you enjoy. Thanks for listening.

[00:01:45] I just wanted to record my version of somatic tracking. And right now we're having some amazing sounds joining us today. So there's the sounds of the garbage trucks outside the sound of the cat scratching on the cat scratchy thing. So I just want to acknowledge that, you know, we don't need the sounds and the experiences in our life to go away, to be able to attend to them in a different way.

[00:02:15] So somatic tracking. It is an amazing technique that sounds deceptively easy. And it is literally the way that we train our brain away from danger into a sense of safety. And I want to just suggest that it is a practice. It is a practice of neural reprocessing and how we practice it is just like how you practice learning to tie your shoe when you were young or when you're old. Learning an instrument, like learning the piano. It is a process by training the mind and the neural pathways, how to attend to the sensations in your body. So in the beginning, you're not going to be good at it. So I just want to offer you that idea that nothing has gone wrong.

[00:03:09] If you do this activity, nothing changes and you feel uncomfortable or it feels weird or, you're not really sure what the point is. So one thing I want to invite you to do is just allow all of those thoughts, those questions, those fears, those, um, bits of confusion, to just be there, to just rise to the surface. It's really, really useful to get those kind of murmurings of our brain out from our subconscious into consciousness so that we can just start, even knowing what's running around inside of us, that is creating this kind of relationship with our sensory experience. So our thoughts and our feelings about what we are experiencing in our body really matter.

[00:04:07] They go a long way into whether our brain and our nervous system thinks that these sensations are safe, or they think that these sensations are dangerous. So things like perception, meaning, belief, they all go in together to this process. So it's okay if you have thoughts, that are full of confusion. That is normal human process of not knowing. We want to welcome the experience of not knowing something as we are on the journey to learning it.

[00:04:43] So somatic tracking, you can do this work anywhere. I like to sometimes when I'm feeling an unpleasant sensation, right. Now I've trained myself. This is the, this is the neuroplastic part. I've created a conditioned response in my own mind body that when I feel an unpleasant physical sensation, somatic tracking is an activity that I reach out to.

[00:05:12] So somatic tracking is the practice of attending to the sensation in your body. It doesn't have to be unpleasant or negative. It can even be a pleasant sensation, or an invited sensation. So we want to reach out and, experience this sensation with curious awareness. And I always like to say self friendship.

[00:05:38] This idea of friendship is really just about like, creating a sense of welcome and because it's something that we want to welcome to our nervous system, just the fact that we are feeling. We want to create welcome with the ability to feel. So I understand that we don't always want to feel the unpleasant feelings or the unpleasant emotions, of course we don't.

[00:06:08] But learning to at least allow them to be part of our human feeling experience will help train the brain away from reactivity and fear and having to like guard us against it. So we do that by paying attention. So say right now I have a little tickle in my throat and I just like placed my attention on it and I just follow it.

[00:06:38] So it feels a little scratchy feels a little bit like a little bubbly sensation in the back of my throat. I can feel a little bit of zizziness happening in my chest. So I just want to like attend to the sensations with some curiosity. Is there any fear that's arising? Is there something else that's coming into focus?

[00:07:06] And then I just take a deep breath and pay attention to sensations in the body. Is that tickle in my throat getting stronger, louder? Is it moving around? Am I feeling it on the other side? Am I aware of the tension in my forehead. What is that sensation feel like? Is that sensation, dark or heavy. Does it feel like it's tapping or throbbing or moving around?

[00:07:42] Does it have a quality that you can name? Does it have a taste? What would that be? We want to just ask these questions so that we just stay in the body. You don't need to spend a lot of time thinking about it. Thinking about how we don't like it and thinking about how long is this going to keep going on?

[00:08:04] Thinking about arguing with it. Anytime we feel ourselves, go to thinking, just want to invite you to come back to the body. Back to the breath, come back to attending to these sensations with a sense of safety, tending to these sensations with curious awareness.

[00:08:25] So what is the feeling? I can feel my leg on the chair. What is the sensation of the leg on the chair? It feels a little heavy. I'm just paying attention to it. There's a zingy sensation. I just want to follow it. I just want to create a sense that this sensation is not dangerous.

[00:08:48] There's nothing I have to do to fix it. We're just going to keep following it and being like, huh, that's so interesting. Well, that's what that feels like. That's what that tickle in my throat feels like. That's what that sensation in my forehead feels like, how it feels a little, um, I need to come up with more words.

[00:09:11] Uh it feels a little soupy in my head. And, and so any word, we would just want to evoke the actual quality of what it feels like, right. So just let your self, be creative, have some fun with that and just let it be a part of your lived experience. I feel a little. Little Zippy Zappy sensation in my right foot.

[00:09:40] And this going to follow that. Just paying attention to the sensation in my foot with a sense of ease. Remembering to breathe. Just being like welcoming all the experiences, all the sensory experiences that are happening into my body are welcome. And you're a part of the human experience of feeling. That's how my body is assessing its environment. And I know that I'm safe. I'm sitting in a chair, I'm talking on a video, talking to you.

[00:10:17] I'm perfectly safe. My body is having sensations, that's okay. Let me train myself. These sensations are just passers by. They're just little communications from the inside of me, from the sensing me to the perceiving me. And if anything creates a sense of fear, you just want to note that. You just want to know what is the worry? What are the thoughts in my head? When I feel this feeling?

[00:10:46] We're not trying to fix or solve that, but it's just useful to notice that sometimes we have a feeling and then we have a thought about that feeling. Sometimes we have a physical sensation and then we have a fear arise. You just want to create some welcome for the fear part of us for the part of us that feels fear. Fear is a normal, natural, important human experience. We just don't need to be feeling fear all the time when we're not in danger. We need to turn the volume down on these sensations. We need to get our safety alarm system better tuned. Right? So that the alarms go off when there's a fire, not when we're trying to make toast, right? We want to be able to make toast. We want to be able to live our lives. We want to be able to move with ease. We want our alarm system to be working in alerting us when we are in danger, when we need to be attending to whatever is causing the pain. So this somatic tracking, this curious awareness piece, following the sensations in your body with a sense of self friendship. And if they get to be really strong and scary and we get to do what I call inviting in your friends, you're feeling friends.

[00:12:10] So that could be hand on your heart inviting in the feeling of self-compassion and self friendship, It can be inviting in the sensation of petting a cat or looking out the window at a tree and looking at the leaves glistening in the light. It can be the sound of some music that you really enjoy, or the taste of something that you love. Want to invite in maybe neutral and positive sensations to keep good company with us while we do this practice.

[00:12:47] You don't have to white knuckle our way through it. You don't have to grin and bear it. We're creating a sense of welcome. This is an invitation to feeling. And an invitation to feeling safe feeling. And whatever your body is offering you, you can just say thank you. You can say thank you belly for rumbling. Thank you chest for fluttering and letting me know that this is how you feel when you feel nervous.

[00:13:18] Again, just we want to get out of our thinking mind, thinking about the pain, thinking about the sensations and moving back into the feeling body. Allowing a feeling to be felt with a sense of welcome with a sense of peace, with a sense of friendship.

[00:13:39] When I am having intense negative sensations in my body, I often like to place what I call a somatic smile. The smile actually relates to our polyvagal nerve and it is the way that we teach our body, that we're feeling okay. So we want it to be a real smile, not like a fake smile. You know what a fake smile feels like, a fake smile feels kind of terrible, right?

[00:14:09] There's like one thing happening in your face, but there's something else happening on the inside. of you. We want a real smile. It could even just be the willingness to try smile, right? Just the practice of smile, creating a little warmth, a little lightness inside of us. So, because I am well practiced at this, it's easy for me. It's not necessarily going to be easy for you when you first start that's okay. That's just learning.

[00:14:44] But the idea of a somatic smile is so cool. So in a body part that is feeling some unpleasant sensations. I will often place what I call a somatic smile. Which means I literally smile. And then I imagine that smile, those sensations of warmth connection, self love to be like placed in that body part.

[00:15:11] I just meet it with the smile. The smile is me creating love for me, with me, all the mes. I often do this when I'm moving. If I'm walking and I find something that feels uncomfortable. Normally what happens is then I feel an arousal of fear. A little fear comes in. A little worry, comes in. My brain starts to offer me ideas about what's happening inside of my body. And I'd just like to say, thank you. And then I send a somatic smile to that part. And I just say that we're safe, that there's nothing wrong with my body. This is just a sensation of fear.

[00:15:53] And then just keep smiling, practicing. And I keep walking. I do the activity. I invite in a sense of ease and peace while I am doing the activity, while I'm walking. The work is to create a corrective experience for our brain when we are experiencing the unpleasant sensation.

[00:16:15] So yes, we can relax and do all of these things ahead of time. We can create some visualizations, but when the rubber meets the road, when we're actually doing it, that's when we need to have that conversation about safety with our nervous system. I invite you to practice, to meet yourself with grace and love, curiosity, and friendship while practicing.

[00:16:39] That's how you will one, want to do it more often, growing the experience of love, connection, self friendship, curiosity, and unwiring hypersensitivity, hyper-reactivity fear and pain. We're wiring towards something, which means that we're automatically wiring away. If there's something that we want to experience less, we have to wire towards something we want to experience more.

[00:17:11] Thank you for listening to this. I hope it's been helpful. Just keep practicing. I'm Deb, you can follow me on Instagram.@movewithdeb where I'm hoping to share more tips, tricks, and tools on how to wire your brain away from pain and towards safety.

View Details

https://www.guelphtherapist.ca/blog/cognitive-fusion-defusion/

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript.

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to move with Deb. This is episode number 31. And I'm going to talk about two little exercises that you can do to pay attention to your subconscious. And I'm talking about subconscious in relationship to movement and fear and pain.

[00:01:15] Pay attention to your subconscious. Your brain has opinions. So listen up my dearest darling podcast listeners. Just because your brain says words you do not need to believe them as true. I did a previous episode on cognitive diffusion and fusion and acceptance and commitment therapy. And I'll drop a link in there that explains what I'm talking about.

[00:01:47] But if I teach you only one thing. This statement is it. That you do not need to believe every thought that your brain says to you. But the answer is to not tell your brain to shut up. It's an invitation to pay attention. We want to notice what our subconscious is saying to us.

[00:02:12] For instance, I was walking up a hill and upon the slight change in elevation my brain offered me the following thoughts due to the perception that my legs felt heavy.

[00:02:25] " This hill, shouldn't be hard." "You're so out of shape." "You're a fraud. You talk about becoming pain-free. And look here's pain." "My legs are so heavy. Let's give up."

[00:02:39] So those were the thoughts that popped into my head immediately upon this elevation change because my legs felt heavy. Thank you brain preciate, all those kind and encouraging words.

[00:02:54] So first tip. This is normal.

[00:02:58] This is just a function of our brain's predictive coding. This is a function of how maybe we've always talked to ourselves in the past. This is a function of a fear brain moving into protection mode. So one, there's nothing wrong with you. This is just kind of normal brain stuff. Brain says words. Oftentimes when it's trying to protect us it will say literally the most ridiculous things. And we don't have to believe these unhelpful thoughts. Or even go to debate club with them. Like we don't have to argue with them. I even had a client once, who as we were doing this work, could feel the sensory experience of her brain wanting to like go to lawyer's speak. When her brain was going to offer her like a defense and just kind of throw a lot of thoughts at her that she was going to have to deal with.

[00:03:58] I think that the brain is protecting our body. We have a perception that something we're going to do is dangerous. Our brain swoops in trying to keep us from doing it. Right.

[00:04:10] So the first thing is just to notice that you're having a feeling that's being narrated with words. So it's like a movie. My body walked up that hill, there was a change in elevation which created a sensory experience shift, from where I was feeling comfort walking to a slight discomfort. And then my brain wanted to pop in and narrate it. But instead of just narrating it like an observation, like a documentary. It was maybe narrating it like a horror movie or some kind of disaster film. So we want to take it back to just noticing that you're having a feeling that's being narrated with words. Are they documentary words or are they doomsday, bad prediction words? So we wanted then recognize if fear has been triggered. And then ask ourselves. Why am I afraid? Am I afraid of falling? Is my gates stable? Am I moving faster than comfortable?

[00:05:25] My body suddenly tensed. And it was about to power through only making my muscles more tense and more tender. The next step is to relax. I kept walking. And I talked to my brain. In a friendly and gentle voice. This took five seconds. I said, Nope. We are safe and we're fine. And we will walk up this hill at our own pace. Then my body released its tension. The subconscious tension was meant to help me power through. Right. We create tension in our muscles to give us force. But when we apply force, when we don't need force, all we're left with is tension. The idea is that we want to brace when we need it and release when we don't need it.

[00:06:20] So as I talked to my brain, in a kind and friendly voice when I told it that it was safe. And then I also said, we're going to move up this hill at our own pace. My body released the tension. That was a physiological process related to the way that I was speaking to myself. I wasn't releasing tension like when you do an exercise where you squeeze your body and then release the tension. It was not a conscious process. This was a subconscious process. I spoke to my brain and then my body responded. And after my body released the tension. I noticed I had more energy. And more capacity for movement. And I had no pain.

[00:07:08] Then the next step, the fourth step. Is to give myself a high five. Is to freaking celebrate, not pushing through, not being mean to myself and also not believing the shitty unhelpful thoughts that my brain offered to me when I had that moment of fear.

[00:07:30] And to remind you that moment of fear arose when I had moved into a difficult or uncomfortable or slightly like it ,really wasn't a big hill seriously was not a big hill. So even this makes me laugh. Right because I have this mind, body awareness. Literally, it was like the slightest incline and my brain was like, oh my God, this is hard. You can't do it. So I have the ability to just recognize like, oh, even just the slightest change in a sensory experience can invite the brain to make a commentary. Right. So it's narrating my physiological experience. I was able to say. We are safe. We are not in danger. And then my body responded and then I was able to move with ease.

[00:08:23] So then the rest of my walk was a breeze. It was no drama. I walked up the hill. I got to my destination. Walking was relaxed and easy. All of my motor capacity was available to me because I wasn't holding this subconscious tension.

[00:08:42] So do you talk to yourself? Do you talk to your brain? What do you do when you notice your brain wants to say something negative? Are there times when you're moving and you're telling yourself you're too slow. You used to do this better. Try to take that as a cue to speak to yourself kindly and see how that changes your pain or moveability.

[00:09:08] Here's another story about proprioception, fear, and what I call muscle go-time.

[00:09:15] I'm back to lifting after two years. And it's rather humbling putting the bar on my back for the first time in a long time. All of that shit that goes into being able to place my arms in that position, we're definitely feeling it. And I know that with work and practice with a broomstick. Those muscles will open up just like it did before. Bodies respond to the work we ask of them. But doing it safely has its complexities. So knowing where our bodies are in space, a sense of proprioception is directly wired into our nervous system.

[00:09:53] The first squat. I had expected to make it down to the stool. I had been squatting the last few weeks, but that was without a bar on my back. So I was holding a 10 pound weight in front of me. And I was squatting to a box. And that was feeling great.

[00:10:12] So I put the bar on my back. I was like, okay, it's time for this next step. And then when I squatted my brain was waiting for my butt to make contact with the seat and it just didn't. And there were just one or two times I like flopped down to the seat. And then the bar was just like up on my neck now it was a light bar and I was safe.

[00:10:36] But my body was so confused as to whether I was close or far away from the stool. It felt like my behind was just suspended in midair. So then my coach added mats to the seat to raise up the height of the stool and I squatted again, and my butt made contact with the seat and then my nervous system relaxed, and I was not off balanced or scared or confused. This is with the bar on my back. So I was like, oh, damn, we know where we are and we know what to do. And then I drove myself back up to standing with ease.

[00:11:17] Having physical cues to orient you to your body and a sense of safety is so vitally important. For some people, they feel that flying through the air on a snowboard, jumping a hill. They understand where they are in space and they feel a sense of safety. Some people walking while using a cane or hiking with poles, gives them a sense of knowing where they are in space. Movement can grow and evolve over time. And it can also improve quickly. As I watched the amount of weight I lift every week, go up and up.

[00:11:54] We always need to start where we are.

[00:11:56] And so learning to pay attention, to both the physical activities, but also the subconscious thoughts that arise when you move and then the sensations of fear or safety. This is the process by which we create moveability inside of us, where we create safety for being able to move and where we teach the nervous system that we're safe and that we're okay. And that we do not need the protection of pain.

[00:12:31] So I use coaching as a tool to help my clients develop this metacognitive somatic awareness for insight, skill building, and mind, body transformation. In my program. I teach you about the brain. And I teach you about the nervous system with polyvagal theory. And they teach you how they're related. And then I teach you how to develop the embodied awareness of your own personal bespoke mind, body.

[00:13:01] And I teach you how to create this top down and bottom up somatic experience in your life. I believe learning is an embodied practice. Dr. Sarno helped change thousands of people's back pain, where they three hour lecture. And later a book. How can a book heal your pain?

[00:13:23] Cause it sounds crazy. Especially in this body-based intervention world.

[00:13:29] But the reason that this works is the same reason that my approach to coaching works through developing the skill of loving self friendship and curious awareness. Deciding new thoughts and beliefs on purpose and using the brains process of neuro-plasticity.

[00:13:46] We train the body, just like training and fitness. We train the body. That these movements are safe. That they are available to you. That there possible. And it feels like magic, but it is science.

[00:14:01] And it's legit to not believe what I'm saying. But if you are at least curious and willing to explore, reach out. Or just keep listening to my podcast and watching my content on Instagram. And just saying to yourself maybe feeling different. is possible for me.

[00:14:19] And if you repeat that concept to yourself, Maybe feeling differently is possible for me, your mind and body will give you the opportunity to notice feeling different being possible.

[00:14:32] Thank you always for listening, for coming on this journey with me of teaching you more about the relationship between the mind and body. And about how we can rewire ourselves out of chronic pain and chronic conditions.

View Details

This episode has a funny blooper in it. Can you find it?

Besides that, I want you to know that I believe your pain is real. And just because we are discovering new ways to reprocess your pain, it doesn't mean it's your fault for having it in the first place.

Your body does what it does. Pain is a part of our protection system. I go through how the brain learns how to evaluate a sensory experience and I've got 3 interesting links to share.

And then I go on a little impassioned plea inspired by a conversation with a friend. Enjoy!

https://ideas.ted.com/peoples-words-and-actions-can-actually-shape-your-brain-a-neuroscientist-explains-how/

https://how-emotions-are-made.com/notes/Glossary

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/interoception-how-we-understand-our-bodys-inner-sensations

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to move with Deb. This is episode number 30. So today's podcast is like an appetizer of a much larger concept and piece of work that I am thinking about, working on, talking to people about. So it's in a kind of a raw, early stages place. So just go with me. I'm going to ask some questions that maybe you haven't thought of before. That's what I'm often trying to do is help us crack open this world of perception of both our sensory experiences and the meaning that we make out of them to help us change our physiological experience.

[00:01:45] So this one is called like external threats and internal thoughts. I was thinking about this thing about being fat and having physical pain always being blamed on my physical size. And just this kind of growing up as a person who's always had to defend their humanity. So in some ways, there's this kind of internal defensive stance that has been necessitated by white, cis, hetero, patriarchy, dominant culture. That like anybody, who's not that has to defend their humanity, has to defend their normalcy, their right to exist.

[00:02:33] So what if we just stopped that? What if we don't need to prove the innateness of being queer. What if we don't need to prove that there's more than one gender. What if we don't need to prove that fat bodies are worthy bodies.

[00:02:50] Also this research is important, right? There's so much important work being done right now because these biases kill. But what if, on a personal individual level, we can ask ourselves these questions. Because how are we internalizing this need to prove our worth and value?

[00:03:12] How do you let yourself just be. Do you feel entitled to existing? Or do you feel like you have to prove yourself all the time?

[00:03:21] So what if we can start discovering these sneaky thoughts and beliefs that are driving our feelings of overwhelm, unworthiness and more. And let other people keep their manuals about what's normal and what's right and what's okay. I understand I am providing a very simplistic idea. But there is a point at which we get to decide.

[00:03:48] I am worthy. I am born worthy. Doesn't matter what other people think. It doesn't matter if I'm quote unquote productive. It doesn't matter if I succeed.

[00:03:59] And it would be easier to say all of that and we would feel the physiological benefits of not having to hustle to pay rent. Not having to live in poverty, not having to deal with racial injustice. So I, I understand I am proposing a simplistic idea.

[00:04:20] But are you aware of the effects of other people's thoughts about your body, on your thoughts and feelings about your body?

[00:04:28] In Lisa Feldman Barrett's book, How Emotions Are Made she discusses the idea of categorization. It's the process by which the brain uses a concept to make sensory input meaningful. The constructed view of emotions, claims that the brain creates experiences and perceptions from more basic ingredients.

[00:04:48] So in every waking moment, your brain uses past experience, organized as concepts to guide your actions and give your sensations meaning.

[00:04:59] In my course, I talk a lot about the brain is a predictive organ and how we can change our perception of sensory experience. Meaning is not neutral. Meaning is very culturally informed by bio-psycho-social forces. And so of course we live with other people's meanings inside of our bodies.

[00:05:24] So I have a few articles that I'm going to attach to the transcript. There's an article about how people's words and actions can actually shape your brain. There's the glossary from her book, how emotions are made, and then there's an article about predictive coding and interoception, which I just think is interesting.

[00:05:49] I talk about biology because it's important. Because we all have a brain. We all have a body. And we all have a nervous system. And even though our experiences within the world is different. The brain and the body and the nervous system all operate relatively similarly.

[00:06:10] So once we understand why our body's doing something we can also begin to decode it in a more neutral way in a less personalized way. Right. But also in a way that's dynamic. I want us to start thinking about our brains and bodies as dynamic beings. Just like Lisa Feldman Barrett's work about the constructed view of emotion. These are not fixed states. So it's not like somebody with this kind of brain has this kind of experience or this kind of person with this kind of trauma has this kind of experience. It's not identity based.

[00:06:56] It's meaning based. And when we collect as a group, we make meaning together. But I really want this part about the dynamism dine-in ism. Is that a word? The dynamic ness of our mind and body experience to be understood because that's where the role of neuro-plasticity comes in. Everybody's brains are also plastic. And so we can through re-interpreting meaning. We can rewire the brain.

[00:07:30] With that said. Today I had an online conversation with a friend which was so helpful. She was honest with me. And told me that my work sounds like what folks in pain and people in marginalized bodies hear a lot. Thoughts like it's your fault. And it's in your head. And I just need to say emphatically. I don't believe that either of those things are true.

[00:07:55] And neither do any of my teachers or the clinicians I work with. Or any of the neuroplastic pain educators or therapists that I know of, that I follow and that I listened to. They completely believe that you are feeling exactly what you are feeling. Dr. Sarno once said that TMS, which was his name for neuroplastic pain hurt more than any kind of structural pain ever hurt.

[00:08:22] So we believe you. This pain is awful. And it is not in your head. It is in your body, but it is of your head. As in all pain is made in the brain. So I'm going to say that again. It is in your body. It is felt in your body, but it is of your head as all pain is.

[00:08:42] All pain is made in the brain. The brain decides everything we experience. It's our subconscious grand master. And it's not your fault because it conditioned response of a subconscious protective occurrence. What neurons learn is neutral.

[00:09:00] There's no reason for why your brain has perpetuated this predictive coding of the brain. It's often we have a sensation or we heal from something and the loop of evaluation, the prediction loop of the sensory experience gets stuck in on mode, in danger mode, in watch out and organize your life around not feeling this mode.

[00:09:23] And that's why I also talk about emotions. Because repression is repression from the brain's point of view. If we create a conditioned response to not feel something, when that sensation arises, whether it's your butt in a particular chair or a difficult memory. Your brain will do what it needs to do to protect you.

[00:09:46] Even if that is turning the pain on high, even if that's turning up the volume on your sensory experience on your unpleasant sensory experience. The brain is really good at what it does. Keeping you alive. Allostasis. But it is not smart as in being able to decide when to stop paying attention to an unpleasant sensation, you need to teach the brain that. And that's through education awareness, emotional allowance. Body-based tools like somatic tracking. Trauma work.

[00:10:21] This is trauma work. This is nervous system work. This is teaching your brain what you decide is safe because you want to live with less or no pain. Not because you would be a better worker. Not because then you wouldn't be disabled. This is about getting free from the biased messages about your body.

[00:10:43] Or the well intention, but unfortunately, harmful messages about your body. This is not about identity. Pain is a normal human experience. We all feel. And we will all feel pain in our lives. Physical and emotional pain. And persistent pain and many chronic conditions are stress illnesses, which are bio psycho-socially driven.

[00:11:08] But anyone who has a brain and has a nervous system can also learn these tools. Regardless of the stress and factors in their lives. I have clients who've been suffering for years in bed and get well. They define well for themselves, not to reenter the workforce, but because everybody deserves to be free of chronic persistent pain.

[00:11:35] Just like everyone deserves food and shelter and healthcare. And I know that not everything is a mind, body illness. But a lot of chronic pain is a subconscious learned process that can be learned. We also need accessible spaces and wheelchair ramps and accommodations. This work isn't meant to take any of that away.

[00:11:59] The real trauma of having a body that is perceived as broken or not worthy is absolutely real. And the fear we hold because of the impact of racist, homophobic, fat phobic, trans hating neuro-typical, white supremacist ideals is experienced in the body.

[00:12:19] And learning this work is vital because I don't know about you, but if we need the world to right itself before pain can go away, that's a losing proposition. It is not okay for only white middle to upper class people to get access to this work. And is hella white. And I talk about that in my program that's in week one.

[00:12:42] This concept while popularized in the 1980s with Dr. Sarno's books and work. That was before the internet was a thing. Big pharma and big medicine weren't interested in pain interventions that are inexpensive and aren't based around equipment or drug sales or surgeries. No one at NYU was even interested in referring their clients to him, not when they could perform surgery and provide an intervention. Even though there's countless studies to dispute the efficacy of surgery for curing back pain.

[00:13:19] We now only have the first comprehensive pain study about this process coming out soon. The Boulder Back Pain Study. This is decades after Dr. Sarno helped thousands of people heal from pain.

[00:13:34] No one deserves to suffer. Pain when we understand the complexity of it makes total sense. It's our body taking the very best care of us it can using the only tools at its disposal, the beliefs and perceptions about its sensory experience. Once you come to understand this and create that understanding in your body as an embodied practice. You can change your brain's meaning of sensory input and your body will respond.

[00:14:13] That is what this work is. And a lot of what happens, the trauma part, the unlearning part is about unraveling this lifetime of meaning that we have learned little bits and bobs about our bodies. And it's gotten into our subconscious and we've organized our survival as best we can around it.

[00:14:38] So that's my impassioned plea.

[00:14:41] There is nothing that I have any interest in telling you that this pain is not real. Nor is this pain something that you are at fault for. Or that you shouldn't be experiencing.

[00:14:57] But this process is real. I don't know how else to explain it.

[00:15:04] But this unlearning, relearning neuroplastic process is real. Just like you have learned everything you have learned in your life to this point. Just like you've learned any motor pattern. Or habit, which your body then automates and delivers to you without thinking.

[00:15:26] You could learn a new pattern. Could play a new song on the piano. You can rewire your sensory experience. It's all the same process. Except this is with our interoception. Our neuroception. Our perception. All the "ceptions". And with our belief. And with fear.

[00:15:47] I try my best to be a good guide, to honor everything that you have been through. And to show you as Alan Gordon, has named his new book. The Way Out.

[00:15:59] So if you're ever interested in working with me, I encourage you to go to my website.debmalkin.com. Follow me on Instagram at @movewithdeb. I am sharing a lot of experiences around rewiring pain on there. I share reviews and tidbits and experiences from my clients. I share articles and information that I think would benefit people. I am happy to share.

[00:16:26] It's my pleasure and honor to hear your stories and to work with you. And to help you facilitate any change that you want to make in your life.

View Details

Hello to my lovely super somaticizers of stress.
I love you.
I am you.

So this episode I talk about my getting a rule out for throat cancer, because I've been dealing with this annoying, scary neck pain for over a year. It comes and goes. It's definitely linked to stress. And there was always a fear in the back of my mind that it was something more. Because I had gotten rid of all my other mindbody pain through these techniques but this one has hung around.

So I talk about the importance of a "rule out". And also I share an article about the power of perception - https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/eight_reasons_to_distrust_your_own_perceptions

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to move with Deb. This is episode number 29. I'm so glad that you're here with me today because I have some amazing mind, body news for myself. I got my final rule out, I'm calling it my final rule out. Because I finally went to an ear nose and throat specialist. I've been having throat pain. Pressure, couldn't figure it out, it's been really annoying for the last year. There are elements of it that are mind, body pain, that I can watch it, change sensation, move around, get more intense when I'm stressed, get more intense when I'm focusing on it. And also unlike other pain in my body. I have not been able to "make it go away."

[00:01:46] And that experience has been frustrating. And also, I believe in going and getting things checked out by the doctor. So. I, got a referral from a friend that I trust and read a bunch of Yelp reviews. And I was like, okay, this is going to be a doctor that I can trust, who likes to help solve problems. I didn't want to be dismissed as crazy. Because the kinds of sensations I was describing, like, I even had a hard time describing the sensations. That part doesn't make me feel confident as a patient. Or as a person, even in my own body, if I can't even articulate what is happening.

[00:02:30] But I was also witnessing my experience of my relationship to the pain and the sensations that I was having, I was feeling a lot of insecurity about it. And that there were two things going on in my mind. One thing going on in my mind was I actually firmly believe that this is neuroplastic pain or mind body pain. And then at the same time, I'm like, but what if it's not.

[00:02:57] What if it's something awful. What if it's cancer?

[00:03:00] So I was like, well, the answer is to go to the doctor and get it ruled out and getting a cancer rule out of my throat. Is pretty straightforward. Because they look at it with a camera. And that was something I'm unable to do on my own. I had gotten a whole bunch of labs. All of my labs were normal. My provider and I checked for like, thyroid and parathyroid, like we did a deeper exploration using lab work.

[00:03:32] So I go see this lovely doctor. He listens to me. Uh, You know, takes a look and then like does the thing with the camera. And it has me make a bunch of fun sounds so you can watch my vocal chords and epiglottitis and I was told I have a beautiful mucosa. That's always delightful. I could feel my body perk up when he said the word beautiful. And I was like, The mind is such a shithead. I'm like, I've never thought about my mucosa before, but now it's beautiful. I love my mucosa.

[00:04:10] Anybody thinks that the mind body reaction is not there. Think about some body part that you've never thought about before. And call it beautiful or have somebody else call it beautiful or even a body part that you're like neutral about. If you now all of a sudden think like, your elbow pit is beautiful. Or like the tops of your ears are beautiful. Like you're going to have a whole different relationship to that body part.

[00:04:39] He showed me the picture on the screen. So I actually get the visual data, right, the, the visual sensory data now lives in my brain. I even took a picture of it. And he showed me this one little part had a little swell and he said, that there's mild superglottic hyperactivity projected at petiole of epiglottis. So there's like this tiny little muscular swelling. I have neck pain and neck strain going on and it makes sense to me. I understand some things about the body. He kind of like pressed on my SCM my sternocleidomastoid muscles. And like, Ironically, and this is for all you body workers. He thought the right side was tighter. I thought the left side was tighter.

[00:05:30] So practitioners' perceptions and people's perceptions of their own bodies can be very different. So I just thought that was interesting. I thought the whole thing was really interesting. And I left there in a huge amount of relief that I didn't have cancer. But what I noticed was I was also in disbelief that last year did not give me cancer. There was some part of me that believed that there must be some cellular lasting experience of how difficult last year was for me. I was just like, wow.

[00:06:12] I didn't realize that was such a deep belief. I had just gotten my mammogram like two weeks ago. We did a mammogram and an ultrasound because I have some, cysty things, let's just call it that this is very technical podcast. So for my left breast, they always do an ultrasound.

[00:06:33] Everything's fine. Literally in my body, as far as modern medical science knows, everything's fine. I was just seriously, like how could I not be sick from this last year. And I just realized that was my subconscious belief. And there were times in which I was preparing myself for being sick. I was preparing myself for having cancer. I was imagining whether or not I was going to go through treatment or not. I was imagining all kinds of different scenarios. Uh, I have very strong feelings about whether or not I had enough of a support system to go through cancer treatment. And actually currently, house sitting for a friend who's going through cancer treatment. So there's a lot of overlap, complexity, beliefs about myself, my friendships, you can probably hear me be a little sad. There's some high emotional content in there.

[00:07:42] So now I'm like, oh, right this is muscular tension, but it's also a lot of belief. This subconscious belief that I suppressed or I like, I let out every once in a while, the subconscious belief that I had cancer or that I of course would have cancer was you know, it was directly kind of affecting my perception of the sensations in my body.

[00:08:13] And now I get to go explore what ideally is the healing path for me, which is to take care of myself. Manage my anxiety. Spend time doing some deeper rest and deeper healing. And getting into this sense of really deep nervous system care for myself. Not from a place of feeling rushed or running away. But this question and belief of what is it that I want to invite into the future? What parts of my life aren't working the way I want them to be. So right now, I don't feel like I'm getting enough rest in general. Sleep is a major contributor to health and wellbeing and going to start working on getting more rest, more sleep, having times in which my mind is getting some, like, Deep Rest Non Sleep time where my mind is not going a million miles an hour. Or I'm not trying to solve all the problems. Take care of all the things.

[00:09:23] Some parts of that are about identity. My identity as a healer. So there's a lot of internal work for me to do, but I'm excited about it. Now that I don't have cancer, I've got a lot of time on my hands. Now that I don't have cancer I feel like I can experience time in a different way. Even just the unconscious belief that I might have cancer changed the way I believe I've experienced time.

[00:09:54] So I want to inspire you to think about what are your beliefs about your body? What are your beliefs about what is possible for you to be healing? What is possible for your body in the future? And what are you thinking is wrong with your body now?

[00:10:15] And really allow yourself to think about the things that you are trying to suppress. And it's hard. And it can be scary. So please take care of yourself as you do that process.

[00:10:30] And that's what a rule-out is. And so for mind, body disorders, We really want to get things like cancer, infections and auto immune disorders ruled out. And there's some debate about auto-immune disorders. Because I see people healing from auto immune disorders in the mind-body circle. But that's what the current prevailing suggestions are and so that's what I did.

[00:11:00] And today already, my neck feels better. There's an interesting article about perception from Greater Good Berkeley. Eight ways your perception of reality is skewed. And this is based off of a book called Perception, How Our Bodies Shape Our Mind. And it explains that sometimes unconscious forces that shape what we see feel and think create our perception.

[00:11:25] Part of the mind body pain reprocessing process is to teach your nervous system and your brain that what it is perceiving is not correct. That we're going to offer to the mind and the body a new and different updated perception that any particular sensation that is unpleasant or troublesome is not dangerous.

[00:11:53] Alan Gordon's new book The Way Out describes how to create what are called corrective experiences when you are feeling unpleasant sensations. And the key that I walked away from reading that book besides the fact that it is a delightful and kind of lighthearted book even though it's talking about reprocessing pain. And pain of all kinds. What I liked about the book is how simple it is. We must apply corrective experiences, which is talking to your brain and nervous system, there's a process called somatic tracking, which is this neutral witnessing of your sensory experience with non-reactivity. I like to bring in a somatic smile or invite in neutral or pleasant sensory data, right. We're going to lean into positive feelings, positive sensations. Doesn't have to be an emotion. Like you don't have to think happy thoughts, especially if you're not feeling happy. If you're going to try to think a happy thought when you're not feeling happy that feels like an internal, emotional conflict. But we have senses in our body that can connect with something that feels pleasant or feels neutral. We look at something that we believe is beautiful. We touch something that we feel is comforting or soft like a pet or stuffed animal.

[00:13:25] We want to fill our perception with the opposite of danger. So that we tune and retune our nervous system and our reaction. So this article is interesting because they have kind of these, you know, kind of not obvious examples of this unconscious process. This idea that what we perceive to be true may not be true is a threatening idea. Because there's tons of historical experience of Black, Brown, Indigenous, not heteronormative... there's a lot of experience of people not being believed for their experiences being discounted, for suffering and pain and experiences that are happening in their life or to their community. And so it's very hard to say that perception is not reality because when we come from white supremacist, white dominant culture, that culture is based on this story, that one particular culture is kind of valid and others are not. That some people are believed that some people are not like in cases of sexual assault. So there's a societal version and then there's the personal version. There's the outward world of perception and that there are things that happen to people and communities that should be believed.

[00:15:02] But then when we're talking about internally, our own personal mind, body. The perception of what is can also be questioned. And the reason why we want to question that is to change our mind body belief around pain to be not pain. So this shifting of perception is about your own benefit. Not about culturally coercive, diminishing messages. But in some ways you can also look at this as my perception of safety, there's something my body is trying to communicate to me. The pain is real, as it is a felt experience in your body. That can have a lot of intensity and negativity. The pain is not due to tissue damage that needs some kind of external fix. So that there's some part of you that needs attending to. The pain is there for a reason. Pain is a protective mechanism. So learning to even just entertain this idea. And practice these skills. When we practice the skill of decreasing our reactivity to pain and fear then our body creates safety within itself. And that same thing can be said for a high emotional experience. When we attend to the story or the experience of a high emotional experience with less reactivity, our brain and our nervous system are more available for problem solving or more available for other people, are more available for ourselves to care for ourselves.

[00:16:51] But I just wanted to make that point because it of course sounds like when I say perception is not reality. My brain goes to. Yeah, but there's a lot of things that happen in the world that really are real. And they're not perception. And we're always told that like, that these things are minimized.

[00:17:15] So. Hmm, continue to figure out how to articulate more clearly about that, but I wanted to make that point.

[00:17:22] There's a bunch of studies in this book but I'm going to link to the article in the podcast. So our energy and abilities impact our perspective and they did a bunch of studies that our physical body and our ability to move, influence how we view our surroundings. And I've had this conversation with my clients before.

[00:17:43] That if they are afraid, they cannot walk the distance from point a to point B, that that distance looks much farther than it is. So same thing. People wearing heavy backpacks, see steeper hills in front of them than those without backpacks. So our walking ability shapes the apparent walkability of a hill, which determines how you see it.

[00:18:08] You do not see the hill as it is, but rather as it is seen by you.

[00:18:13] So if we know this, we can care for ourselves during a process. During walking, we can say this distance feels very far because I have some beliefs about my ability to walk this distance. Even yesterday, I played this little experiment. So I was on the Bart, there was, of course, no escalator going up and I had to walk up the stairs. And I said, if I look up the stairs and think about how much further I have to go, It is going to be hard. If I look just at the stair in front of me and just walk up and distract my brain I would imagine that these stairs are going to be a lot easier. And I'll just eventually get to the top. And that's what happened.

[00:19:07] It was not hard. It increased in difficulty the more I went up because there were a lot of stairs. But I didn't perceive a threat or a danger or an overwhelm in walking up the stairs. I had an initial moment of like, oh, hell no when I looked up the stairs when I realized the escalator wasn't working. But I knew enough about the mind body process to decide my best answer is to not think about how much more there is to go. And I had a podcast on, and I was just like, let's just go into enjoying this podcast. And we'll walk up the stairs and eventually the stairs will be done.

[00:19:50] And the whole experience of that. Was just much more relaxing and much less stressful than I thought. So our perception of a distance creates our experience. I had a client who would have panic attacks every time she had to walk a distance, she thought was farther than she was able to do. And one of the things that I helped her work through was that it was her perception of her ability to walk that was creating the panic attack not her actual ability to walk.

[00:20:26] And what we were able to do was help her work on those panic attacks work on that fear. We worked on a number of solutions. One was to walk more slowly and sense into your feet on the ground and your ability to feel secure. Like you, weren't going to fall. Right. So we're creating a sense of peace. A sense of confidence in her gait. And a sense of understanding that she could stop when she needed to. Right. So that she didn't go into physical and emotional overwhelm tipping her vagus state over into fight flight or freeze. That was starting to happen the moment she looked at a distance. We really worked through this. She held her own hand as she walked different distances. Not literally, but figuratively held her own hand. Held her own nervous system as she walked different distances and walking those distances became easier.

[00:21:34] She actually realized that she could walk farther than she thought she could because her mind body wasn't stopping itself. It wasn't creating muscular inhibition because of fear. She described it as walking with the emergency brake on. Which makes a lot of sense because we have a conflict. I have to get from point A to point B. It was, she had to walk to go to the doctor. So, you know, her desire to get from point A to point B was very high. Point A to point B seemed very far. She was going to do it anyway, but the way that she had been white knuckling, her way through that movement was like walking with the emergency brake on. And so what we worked on was taking the emergency brake off. And finding a pace that she felt comfortable with. And stopping when she needed to and noticing where there were chairs that she could sit if she wanted to. But I think she was able to walk without sitting down because her body was relaxed. And her muscles were available to her. And there's nothing wrong with sitting down.

[00:22:51] There's the last one, which is also about perception. It says our feelings affect our perceptions and our thoughts. Feeling bad makes things seem harder. So if you have felt sad or depressed it is interesting to note that these feelings also change our sensory perceptions. So people listen to melancholic music tend to think a hill looks steeper than people, listening to happy music. Emotions have the job of giving a red or green light towards approaching or avoiding objects, people and situations and shape perception accordingly. So that means nurturing our positive emotions may help us to approach difficult tasks more easily.

[00:23:36] There's another part of this says having people around makes things seem easier. The presence of other people affects our perceptions and difficult since situations too. Holding hands with someone while having a painful experience can lessen the pain. Anticipating having to carry a heavy load with someone else as opposed to alone makes it appear lighter.

[00:23:58] And just thinking about friends can make hills seem less steep. Our social connections seem to play a role in reducing stress. Which might be why being with others changes our perceptions of pain or difficulty making them both easier to bear. This study is and more point to the centrality of our social relationships for resilience when things are hard.

[00:24:21] Which makes sense to me why I was feeling more stress when I was thinking about going through a potential cancer diagnosis and treatment where I was feeling very alone and feeling like I did not have the social support that I would need to go through an experience like that. Which then brought up a lot of thoughts and feelings about social support that I didn't want to be thinking about. That is very painful for me.

[00:24:50] There's another study they did about, political beliefs affecting our math skills. So, this is how group affiliations, like the political party we belong to effect our perceptions. So in one study, people were asked to solve math equations to verify the truth of a research finding like whether a vaccine is effective. Or whether banning guns save lives. As predicted people with greater math skills were able to figure out the answers more easily, but only when the result of the calculation didn't contradict their political belief. If it did, everyone's math was worse. They solve the problem correctly 25 to 45% less often.

[00:25:35] So this flies in the face of the idea that people just need more information to figure out the truth of a situation. Thinking, even doing math is not a process happening in isolation. But it is instead embedded in our personal thoughts and group identities. We literally become flummoxed, stupefied and incapable of wielding our full faculties when confronted with facts that threaten our social identity.

[00:26:05] That is a lot about the mind body process. What is our social identity? And how does that relate to what we think is happening on the inside of our body? What we think is happening and is possible around healing and feeling better?

[00:26:24] Every fat person I know has been told something scary slash dangerous slash diabolical about their bodies. They live in a wash of negative future predictions about our bodies, about how our joints are disintegrating about how any pain we feel is our fault, is because the load on our joints and the future predictions of our longevity and wellbeing.

[00:26:57] We're told we're literally dying, taking years off of our life every time we eat a French fry. And it may sound like I'm being hyperbolic. And yet I'm not.

[00:27:11] So. I think I will leave it here. I am excited to see how this process with the tension in my neck unfolds. I can already feel my relationship to these sensations changing.I was in the kitchen making coffee and I could sense a little neck tension. And my brain first says, well, it's not cancer.

[00:27:36] And then my brain was like, this is probably just some tension. I'm curious how I'm going to go work through this tension. I'm going to think I'm going to go add in some more meditations. Um, find some time in my schedule to do Danny Fagan's TMS yoga work. And maybe find a craniosacral therapist who will do a little relaxing body work for me. So we'll see how that goes and see how that changes. But already I can start experiencing the difference between a fear response and a not fear response. And honestly, I prefer the not fear response every single time.

[00:28:20] So I hope that I've given you some ideas and things to think about. Always, I am talking about the relationship between your mind, your body, and your nervous system. We are one mind body system. And our mind body system lives within larger systems. Some we have controls over some of them, we don't, some of them are conditioned responses and impacts that we have going through time, back through our ancestors and our families and our communities.

[00:28:53] So I hope that some of this work helps you think about your body in a different context. The important part to start with is the foundation of your own bespoke brain and body.

[00:29:08] As always, if you're curious about pursuing more study, more information and learning how to use pain reprocessing for you and your life, you can check out my website at debmalkin.com. Book a curiosity call with me and I will tell you about my fear brain and chronic pain program. And how it can help. Thank you so much for listening. I am thinking of you and wishing you well.

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Dr. Sarno taught that unprocessed emotions, particularly anger and rage were responsible for chronic pain, back pain.

Now with Trauma informed care and Polyvagal Theory the conversation has shifted to safety and fear.

Underlying it all is this concept of Emotional Awareness.
And more important (in my opinion) creating safety with Emotional Experiencing.

There's research that shows, the more granular one is in being able to describe their emotions, the better sense of well-being one has.

In this episode I discuss the reasons why we want to do this practice and the simple skill of the cognitive-somatic tool I call "I Notice."

Here's the link to the emotion wheel article I mention. https://flowingdata.com/2020/03/20/wheel-of-emotional-words/

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello, everyone. And welcome to move with Deb. This is episode number 28. And I want to encourage you. This is an encouraging pep talk of a podcast. Today my suggestion is that you owe it to yourself, to tell yourself, the truth about your thoughts and feelings.

[00:01:21] And I promise you that this is a key piece of mind, body healing. This is a key piece of changing your relationship to anxiety, to pain, and to fear.

[00:01:37] So how do we do this? Gonna try to keep it short and sweet.

[00:01:42] My suggestion is to start using the phrase. "I notice."

[00:01:48] So right now, I noticed that I am feeling nervous.

[00:01:53] And nervous. Feels like a little bit of tightness in my throat. My breath is a little short in my chest. And my head feels a little wiggly.

[00:02:05] And I'm just noticing that.

[00:02:07] There is a great tool called an emotion wheel. The emotional word wheel by Jeffrey Roberts. Here's a great quote from a website called Flowing Data.

[00:02:20] " I work with people who have limited emotional vocabulary and as a result, the intensity of their negative emotions and experiences is heightened. Because they can't describe their feelings. Especially their negative feelings. This is why the list is heavily focused on negative emotion/experiences. Being able to clearly identify how we're feeling has been shown to reduce this intensity of experience because it reengages our rational mind."

[00:02:55] So I like to. Explain this process of emotional awareness as like a dance. And this noticing language, this cultivating what I call our lazy detective, allows us to sense into an experience and also step out of it. We're creating this habit of building this neutral relaxed observer, which by its nature curiosity, is an antidote to reactivity.

[00:03:29] So it's this little cognitive somatic awareness practice, it's like a little dance. It's a little inside touching in, pulling back and not analyzing, but just witnessing. You don't have to know why all the time. Why implies. That there's some reason that something is happening. And that if we just fixed that reason, then it wouldn't be happening anymore. In some ways that's true when you pull the whole view back of the mind, body experience, what is happening? Is that you're having a thought and a feeling which creates a sensation in our body. So it's not the why of the thought and the feeling. It's kind of more the how of the thought and the feeling because we are human, we have thoughts and feelings. So learning to not get sucked into the content of the story, of the thought, of the why, of the trauma, of the experience, it can really help to build this cognitive sematic Metta. Awareness practice. I am a human being. I am having a thought. I am having a feeling. I noticed that I'm feeling nervous. I noticed that I'm feeling anxious. This is what these sensations feel like in my body.

[00:05:01] When we use the emotion wheel, it gives us so many words to help us explain and describe and get creative and be able to tell ourselves the truth about how we're feeling, what we're feeling without this quality of shame that comes with believing that we shouldn't be feeling. That when we allow negative emotion to be felt and witnessed within ourselves then there is no need for shame. Shame creates this resistance to what is. And what is happening when you're experiencing a negative emotion is that you are experiencing a negative emotion. If you look on the emotion wheel. Fearful expands out to threatened, rejected, weak, insecure, anxious, which expands out to helpless, frightened, overwhelmed, worried, inadequate, inferior, worthless, insignificant, excluded, persecuted, nervous, exposed.

[00:06:16] Now of course those feelings are uncomfortable. When we believe that those feelings mean something about us, we are not going to want to experience them because in our mind body experience we have told ourselves if we feel this, then it must be true.

[00:06:41] But it's not true as in a verifiable fact about your worthiness, about who you are as a person. The only thing that is true is that this is the emotion that you are feeling. So that's what's important. Because when we tell ourselves that we shouldn't feel something or if you're like, I wish I didn't feel this, or even when you get lost in the fantasy of um, my life would be better if I only felt good things all the time. You're not telling yourself the truth. The truth is that this is the feeling you're having right now. And that is okay. Because human beings feel all the things. And so when we have a feeling, if we tell ourselves I noticed that I am feeling inadequate, we can offer ourselves some compassion. We could also say to ourselves what is the thought that you were thinking that is creating this feeling of inadequate? Well, when I think about that, then the thought that I'm thinking right now, Is that I don't know how to share this tool, that I don't know how to explain this well. That I don't have the skills to do the work that I'm doing, maybe that is what creates the feeling of inadequate.

[00:08:06] And now I have a lot of evidence that, that thought isn't true. And also our thoughts are not true as in the same thing as this table is a table. it's a sentence in my mind. I can find lots of evidence for the opposite. But what's important is also to just notice.

[00:08:25] This is the thought that's in my mind.

[00:08:27] And then this is a sensation that is in my body.

[00:08:31] When I am able to step back and witness that these are just thoughts that I think sometimes, I can give myself grace. Give myself love. Speak to that part of me that always thinks she's failing. I can meet her with humor and say like, okay, brain this is like your favorite thought to think. Like, I really appreciate that you're trying to keep me safe. That you're trying to protect me by like telling me, in these kind of harsh words to like, not be vulnerable, to not try new things, because what if they're scary? What if we fail? What if, what if, what if, what if.

[00:09:15] Or what if we succeed? And what if then we have to do more? What if? So there's a way in which I like to frame that all my thoughts and my feelings and my sensations in my body are working in my benefit, they are here to keep me safe. I can also choose to have gratitude for this, kind of unhelpful in trying to be helpful, part of me that's just doing its best. And I can you know, pat myself on the head and say, yes, thank you for wanting to protect me, but I got this.

[00:09:57] I am willing to say things and maybe be bad at it. I am willing to try really hard to explain these concepts to people. You know, that what it is, that you've learned for your own mind body, for your own healing process can help other people. I'm willing to try. And it doesn't mean that I won't have this thought again. I might have this thought again.

[00:10:23] I've spent a lot of years thinking thoughts that are just like this. And it doesn't mean anything, other than it is a well-practiced thought. I have a well myelinated neural pathway that loves to go there. I'm in the process of rewiring my brain and learning how to do this is just noticing what I'm thinking, noticing what I'm feeling, creating peace with that, allowing that process. That's the cognitive somatic awareness dance that we do.

[00:10:58] And how we practice is important. We practice with fear and urgency. We will have more fear and urgency. If we practice with a sense of lightness. Humor. Peace. Love and compassion, for ourselves. Love and compassion for the child in us that wishes that things had been different when we were younger.

[00:11:24] But we get to make things different for that child who lives inside of us now. By letting them tell the truth about how they're feeling and then offering comfort. When we're in this practice, we can begin to notice what does pushing through feel like? That's a lot of what we create for ourselves when we are in pain. This sense of having to push through. This belief that, you know, I don't have time to feel this. I don't have time to feel sad, angry, frustrated, I have this long list of things that I have to do. I don't have time for these feelings.

[00:12:05] What I'd like to suggest is we don't have time to not have these feelings. That making time, but more importantly, learning to practice, how to allow a feeling is different than expressing a feeling. It's different than sharing a feeling with another person. It's just the practice of noticing, with a sense of peace. Noticing with a sense of welcome.

[00:12:36] I want to train my brain that emotions are not a problem. So when I am in resistance to a feeling arising in my body. I'm literally teaching my brain no. We can't have this. No, there's no room for this or No, I'm afraid to feel this. Literally, I have clients who tell me, I can't feel this. I can't feel this, again.

[00:13:02] And when they say that statement, Their body mind believes them. And therefore will help you in not feeling that again. By giving you something else to feel. Or by just taking you out of the whole picture. Sending you into overwhelm, sending you into fight flight, sending your brain off down the drain. Because you're not willing to feel something painful. To be with yourself, as it hurts. And the more that you get good at creating emotional allowance and making room for feelings to be felt, feelings get quieter. They, they just aren't as scary anymore. And maybe you don't believe me. Because you haven't experienced it. Maybe you need some other support for this. Which might mean working with a coach or working with a therapist. Working with the tool of somatic tracking. It's great practice tool for being safe with the sensations that arise in our body. Or being safe with the emotions that we feel.

[00:14:11] So when we are in resistance. And we're not allowing the feeling to be felt it's usually because we believe that it means something about who we are. So. If you can't get to the feeling part. Start with the thinking part. If you're like, I'm afraid to have this feeling. Ask yourself. Why? What am I making that mean? What will I believe about myself? If I allow this feeling to be felt in my body. And just see what comes up.

[00:14:45] So like when I suggest that you sit with your feelings, what thought or sensation arises? Now notice that. We want to develop this practice of noticing.

[00:14:57] Maybe you have the thought. What good will this do? Maybe you have this just giant, like pushing away. No. Rejection. Like if your body spoke it would feel like you're pushing something away.

[00:15:13] Or defeat. Nothing will change. Right. Just like deflated feeling in your body. What good will this do? What does that feel like for you? Is that a thought that pops up? Any thought can be felt. What is the felt sense of that thought? Start paying attention.

[00:15:36] You can also do this with positive feelings. We don't only have to deal with negative feelings. Sometimes it's just good to start with positive feelings or neutral feelings, neutral thoughts, neutral feelings, pay attention to those. The same mind, body process.

[00:15:56] So, you know, I don't want to send you into overload and overwhelm. This noticing, witnessing, self kindness practice will open your window of tolerance. And help you be with yourself during all of it. So we get to make that entry point be wherever you want, because the thing is, it doesn't matter. We don't have to deal with the biggest scariest thing. We can deal with the smallest most innocuous thing first. Because it is about building this practice, about building this cognitive somatic awareness piece. So. If starting with your pain seems too hard start with something you enjoy. Start with a smile that you get on your face when you see your pet.

[00:16:50] What is the thought that you're thinking.

[00:16:53] What is the sensation in your body?

[00:16:56] Where does your mind go?

[00:16:57] I invite you to notice what arises. And then welcome all that arises. Hello fear. Hello doubt. Hello pain. Hello joy. Hello ecstasy. Hello kindness. Hello love. Hello anger.

[00:17:15] You are welcome here. I don't need to kick you out. I also might not give you all of my attention. Let's just sit next to each other and share space. Peace. Like meeting a skittish cat. Or a dog who's very afraid. If you hold out your hand, they might run away. So you start by just sitting down. Being calm. Allowing them to come to you. Allowing them to see that you are safe.

[00:17:47] That's what we can create for ourselves with our own thoughts and feelings. I cannot express to you enough but this is an essential. part of healing. I've had clients roll their eyes at me. Cross their arms in disbelief. And tell me that they think it's a load of bullshit and that they literally don't have time. They don't have time to be with their feelings. And I just want to suggest it's because they think they have to do something about their feelings. And that it requires other people to comply with them, other people to change their behavior. Things in the world to be different.

[00:18:33] I need to know that I'm financially secure. I need my mother to feel well. I need my children to stop screaming. I need the, you know, climate to stop changing. I need. I need something. Yes, we all want things to be different. But that's not this process.

[00:18:51] This process is quiet. It is internal and it is for you. Your feelings are for you.

[00:19:01] They are you talking to you.

[00:19:04] And if you don't listen they just get louder. And they keep showing up. They just want to be heard. There is a part of you that just wants to be acknowledged. And when we only train ourselves to get that acknowledgement and validation externally it is very challenging, we just make it 10 times harder, a hundred times harder. Because then we can reinforce this story that other people don't know how to take care of us. That if only my parents had been better, if only my life had been better when I was young. Then I would be okay.

[00:19:46] The problem with that is that, that is in the past. We don't have a time machine. We cannot undo things that have happened in the past.

[00:19:54] What happens in your body mind as an adult, we can be that self witness. We can be that loving, compassionate listener. To soothe ourselves. To say. I hear you. I am with you.

[00:20:10] And to just let that feeling be felt. And you will be amazed at how quickly an emotion will move through us.

[00:20:19] When we teach ourselves that emotions are problems. Or that they indicate that there is some kind of systemic problem with who we are. Some kind of pathology, we don't spend any time getting to know this part of us. We don't spend any time practicing this very quiet, relaxed, neutral observer. To getting to know this felt sense. This absolutely universal human experience of feeling.

[00:20:51] Feelings are not negative or positive. They're not good or bad. They just are.

[00:20:58] So that is my best pitch. For feeling all the feels, for caring for ourselves when we are feeling. When we allow ourselves to be seen and witnessed by ourselves we build a sense of unshakeable self-trust. I feel like I can go on and on and on and on. So, I don't know that pitching this any harder is going to help. I'm just gonna suggest that you try it.

[00:21:30] Just notice what comes up in your mind when you listen to the words that I say on this podcast. Even just say I'm listening to Deb and I noticed that I'm feeling x. That's the entire practice. Try it out. Let me know what you think.

[00:21:46] I'm here for you. And if you're curious about my eight week pain recovery program. Please message me. Hop on a curiosity call, go visit my website, debmalkin.com. Visit me on Instagram @ movewithedeb. I am here for you to help in any way I can. Help you shift your pain. Help you connect with this felt sense of being okay.

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This podcast is very very late, because my perfectionist brain hijacked my body. The best news was although it was still happening, I knew WHAT was happening and so I had no feear. It was an invitation, as always, to feel.

I invite you to slow down. To start to make room for the subconscious thoughts running roughshod in your mindbody.

When we don't make space for feeling, we need the system to protect us and it does just that, by using it's only tools, sensations, physiological experiences. As the saying goes, you got to feel it to heal it. (wish I had actually said that on the podcast).

Verywell Mind breathing exercises -Ihttps://www.verywellmind.com/abdominal-breathing-2584115

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hi, and welcome to Move With Deb. This is episode number 27. And it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 days late. And I am doing it any way.

[00:01:07] I have been on the hamster wheel of my own mind, body experience, which should not be a surprise to anyone. I think I described that a lot with you and one of the reasons why is because I want to share that there is no perfect place that you are going to get to. So I'm sorry to break the news to you. That you are always going to have a mind. You're always going to have a body. And there is always a world that you inhabit and there's always this internal conversation happening. And there is no point in the future with which you have this end until it ends. That's kind of exciting and amazing when you let it be that way.

[00:02:01] Here's why. There is always the opportunity. To learn from what is happening right now.

[00:02:10] And so what is happening right now for me is that I am witnessing my mind and body wanting to be in a rush to get out of my current lived experience. I am trying to integrate myself in a new job that is pushing all of my perfectionist buttons.

[00:02:33] I am in a rush to get out of this experience of feeling like I am failing. And my body is helping me. Cause my brain is saying this moment is absolutely intolerable. And then my body's like, we got you. We're going to help you. We're going to take you away from this moment that you are telling us is completely intolerable.

[00:03:01] But the only tools that we have to take you away are your ADHD brain. And your body full of sensations. And that's what's happening. And I am listening in a new and beautiful way.

[00:03:18] And that's what I mean by, you don't really ever arrive, and why that is a good thing. Because what I get to do now is learn. What I get to do now. is slow down. And meet myself with self friendship.

[00:03:36] When we're in a rush, there are lots of things happening. The adrenaline coursing through us. We're fueled by fear. We have a drive for action. We need to do something, hit somebody, yell at somebody, make a change. Just take action. That is a drive for something. Anything. To be different than what it is.

[00:04:05] The problem with that. Is that it hides what is actually not a problem that needs to be solved or changed. It hides the thoughts and the feelings that create the fear. The answer when we're talking about rewriting our neural pathways, reprogramming our brain away from fear, pain, emotional overwhelm and anxiety is to slow down and practice feeling what we feel is intolerable to be felt.

[00:04:44] And the reason why I say practice. Is because you are not going to be good at it. If you know that you're not going to be good at it you can give yourself some grace. So we have ourselves. We watch ourselves and then we assess. We talk to ourselves. We noticed the changes happening. We're like, why are you in a rush. What are you afraid of? Why is your heart beating so fast? What is got you so scared. And then we listen for the answers. I want to encourage you to slow down.

[00:05:30] And then I want to encourage you if you feel like you don't want to slow down or you can't slow down to just notice that. To ask yourself why. To check in with your body. When you say, Hey body, I noticed that we are treating everything like an emergency. What does your body and your mind say to you in response?

[00:05:59] Getting good at that self conversation. Is an essential part of healing. Because whether or not you need to be in a rush unless there is an actual fire happening, there's an actual emergency that demands your attention right now in this very second, that is absolutely life or death, everything else is technically not an emergency. But that does stop our body from experiencing that same adrenaline, fear, body response as if there was an emergency. And the answer is not to tell yourself. God, you're so fucking stupid. There's nothing to be afraid of. That's not helpful. It is in fact to say, Hey body, I notice that you are feeling afraid. I noticed. That you are treating this moment like it is an emergency. What is happening? What do you need? Why are you doing that? What are you making this mean? And begin to just slow down the experience between an event and a reaction.

[00:07:21] Those thoughts and feelings that we're not letting ourselves experience, get to know, get to be friendly with. They're still there. They're just in our subconscious. They're just in there running around causing havoc. Like mice in the walls. Making a mess. But we're not consciously aware of it.

[00:07:48] And it's not the same thing as fixing. It's kind of like turning on all the lights.

[00:07:54] Seeing what's there. Getting to just be. With ourselves.

[00:08:01] That's what healing actually is. Being with ourselves.

[00:08:07] With a sense of friendship and worthiness. The belief that we are valuable, worthy, loved. And creating our pathways towards that belief.

[00:08:22] And you might have all the evidence from your entire lifetime of why you believe that that is not true.

[00:08:30] But I really want you to know that you are born worthy and whole, there's nothing you can do. And it doesn't matter what anybody else says. That you are a hundred percent worthy and lovable.

[00:08:45] So I think the next thing I'd like to do is just offer you this opportunity to do a little breathing. Our breath is this kind of beautiful cornerstone of our nervous system. And it's one of those body functions that happens on its own. Right. We like that. We like the fact that we just keep breathing, but also we can apply conscious practice to it. We can influence our breathing. You have control over these motor patterns. There's an exercise called 4 7, 8 breathing. It's called the relaxing breath. And that's kind of like a natural tranquilizer for the nervous system. And there's a whole list on verywellmind.com of a whole bunch of breathing exercises. So I will link to that in the show notes. They say this one is best to perform seated with your back straight and as you get familiar with it, you can perform it while lying in bed. I just say do it when you can, where you can, whatever feels comfortable for you.

[00:09:55] I'm going to read you the steps.

[00:09:58] Number 1 place and keep the tip of your tongue against the ridge of tissue behind your upper front teeth for the duration of the exercise.

[00:10:07] 2. Completely exhale through your mouth. Making a whooshing sound.

[00:10:13] 3. Close your mouth. And inhale quietly through your nose to a mental count of four.

[00:10:21] 4 Hold your breath for a count of seven.

[00:10:25] 5. Exhale completely through your mouth. Making a whoosh sound to a count of eight. And if you haven't done conscious breathing practices. Or you have some kind of lung constriction, it may be difficult to hold your breath for a count of seven or breathe out for a count of eight. And that is fine. Just do what feels good for you.

[00:10:52] You can work to the place of challenge. We also want to just stay there and not push past it. Your breathing. has a lot of muscular activity. There's your diaphragm. There's the muscles in between your ribs. So just like working out any other kind of muscle, we get better the more we practice that. We get more flexible the more we practice it. This is why breathing can be very helpful as a technique both for building lung capacity, building the capacity for breathing while moving and while exerting, but also for calming the nervous system. So, if it's not a practice you normally do, it may feel uncomfortable and that discomfort may be a little activating.

[00:11:43] If you feel activated. Slow down, ground yourself. Stop if you need to stop. Come back to the exercise.

[00:11:51] So I'm going to place and keep the tip of my tongue against the ridge of the tissue, behind my upper front teeth. Then completely exhale through your mouth, making a whooshing sound.

[00:12:07] Close your mouth and inhale quietly through your nose to a mental count of four.

[00:12:16] Hold your breath for a count of seven.

[00:12:24] Exhale completely through your mouth, making a whooshing sound to a count of eight.

[00:12:39] And just repeat it.

[00:12:40] That's where I'm going to leave it today. And I try to just give you little tips. Little takeaways. One little nugget.

[00:12:50] If you're curious about the mind, body process. About learning to rewire pain. About beginning to understand the relationship between your thoughts, feelings, sensations, stress, all the things that happen in our body mind because we are gloriously human and you are wanting things to be different than how they are. Please hop on a curiosity call with me. I am here to help and explain to you, in the very best ways that I know how how it is to have a body.

[00:13:25] Find more information about me and the work I do on my website. Debmalkin.com. Follow me on Instagram @ movewithdeb. And I will see you later. I hope you all have an amazing week.

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I'm back at the gym lifting weights and discussing how talking to our brains are like or unlike the Star Trek spaceship viewscreens. I discuss Frequency illusion, also known as the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon, which is a cognitive bias in which, after noticing something for the first time, there is a tendency to notice it more often, leading someone to believe that it has a high frequency (a form of selection bias). This is why it's really helpful to learn how to talk to your brain and fill up your viewscreen.

Transcript

Welcome to Move With Deb. I'm Deb your friendly neuroplastician. And this is a podcast that explores the relationship between the body and the mind from a health at every size, judgment, free perspective. I teach you how developing a new internal conversation based on curiosity, self friendship and simple neuro-plasticity techniques can rewire your bodymind out of pain and emotional overwhelm to help you build the rich full life that you want to live. Disclaimer, this is not a replacement for medical care.

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to Move With Deb, this is episode number 26. And it's late, but better, late than never. Right? So today I want to talk about attention, talking to our brain. So one of the keys to healing is to direct our brain rather than just accept our experience. I once explain this to a client using a star Trek analogy.

[00:01:18]It's like if we only accepted what was in the view screen, and then that was all there was, and we decided there was nothing else happening around the ship. So in star Trek, we know that the ship has long and short range sensors. And they're scanning for what's a danger to the ship, or they're looking for particles for fuel, and they're going to scoop them up with the Bussard scoop or they're looking for a neutrino wave. So there's stuff being scanned and monitored all the time, but only a limited amount of elements will set off a red alert.

[00:01:55]Our bodies are the same. We have sensors detecting data all the time. And over time we decide what is red alert material and what is not. And we have what our nervous system determines is a threat. And we automatically put that up on the view screen. So we can see it. Understand it. Keep an eye on it. Decide what to do about it. Pain is a protection. It is asking the body or the being to do something. What we learned to do with mind, body healing is to decide on a course of action that's about choosing to put the life we want to be living in the viewscreen. And not organizing ourselves based around what we want to avoid. Because we've created these conditioned responses and this habit, this sensitive, threat detection system. That every time we feel a threat we put it up on the viewscreen, we're feeling it in the body. And then we take ourselves down this body, pathologizing, medicalized road. But what we understand about mind body is that we've tripped some kind of sensor.

[00:03:10]Maybe that sensor is unwanted emotion. An emotion that we're not allowing ourselves to feel. Or maybe it's some kind of subconscious association. So understanding how the brain works will help you both turn down the alarm and also assess threats more accurately.

[00:03:31]So there's two features assessing the threat, which is turning off the red alert. So imagine being on the Enterprise and every time it detected a particle in space, the klaxons would go off. (Star Trek sounds)

[00:03:49] That would be super annoying.

[00:03:51]Editing out viewscreen sensory data we don't need processed. We can't possibly know every single thing, every bit of sensory data that our brain and nervous system are evaluating. So we want to focus our viewscreens on what we want the brain and body to be experiencing.

[00:04:10] Here's an example. I had this experience living in New York city when I was younger. There's a million clothing boutiques in Manhattan but they didn't carry my size. Especially back in the eighties and nineties. Because at that time plus size clothing was only sold in specialty stores. And there was no internet.

[00:04:32]So these stores that I passed walking through Soho had no importance to me. I could look in the window and I could see items that I thought were cute, then inevitably I would remember that they didn't have my size. Or I was relegated to shopping for accessories, which after a while, it was just super boring and annoying. And I didn't like that feeling. So I just learn to ignore them. And then my brain did such a magnificent job of ignoring, these stores actually disappeared for me. I wouldn't see them at all, unless something peaked my attention. And probably this is because in New York city, there is so much to hold your attention that you cannot have it everywhere. But I'll tell you I could spot a pizza place. A place that had a clean bathroom, a bookstore, or a record store with ease. The other thing I could spot with these was another queer person or another fat person who didn't look like they hated themselves. They also caught my attention. So those were part of my scan settings and my brain offered them to me readily and easily. I didn't need these clothing stores and so I didn't see them. People would try to use them as landmarks when giving me directions. And I was like, Nope, I have no idea what you're talking about. I successfully filtered it out. That included like very fancy well-known designer brands that literally, I was just like, I do not care about fashion. Which of course the irony is then I did end up working in fashion later and end up opening my own clothing store. That's another story for another day.

[00:06:24]Here's another idea or concept that's similar, but the opposite. It's like when you buy a car, you start seeing it everywhere. Where you learn a piece of new information, you start seeing it with more frequency. That's called the Baader Meinhof phenomenon. It's not that these things are happening more often. It's just that you were noticing it more. Your brain is making connections. You're teaching your brain that this information matters and that it should be paying attention. So I'm going to read you a quote from this article on a website called damninteresting.Com.

https://www.damninteresting.com/the-baader-meinhof-phenomenon/

[00:06:59] " So the reason for this is our brains prejudice towards patterns. Our brains are fantastic pattern recognition engines. A characteristic, which is highly useful for learning. But it does cause the brain to lend excessive importance to unremarkable events. Considering how many words, names, ideas a person is exposed to on any given day it is unsurprising that we sometimes encounter the same information again, within a short time.

[00:07:29] When that occasional intersection occurs, the brain promotes the information because the two instances make up the beginnings of a sequence. The brain's reward center actually stimulates us for successfully detecting patterns hence they're inflated value. In short patterns are habit forming. What we fail to notice is the hundreds or thousands of pieces of information, which aren't repeated because they do not conform to an interesting pattern. The tendency to ignore the uninteresting data is an example of selective attention."

[00:08:10] So that's what I was doing with these clothing stores. They were uninteresting data to me. I use my powers of selective attention to ignore them. That was very beneficial for me. The key to healing is to choose the uninteresting data over the interesting data. Knowing that negativity bias is a real thing we need to bring our brains attention to neutral and positive sensations and let that fill up or viewscreens.

[00:08:41] Whether it's a good piece of pizza, a place to pee, a bookstore, the feeling of sun on my face, the way the clouds look in the sky, the sound of birds or your favorite song, the sensation of a breeze, the smile of a loved one. We want to keep our attention and focus away from the fear alarm bells ringing and pay attention to the things we desire or we are relaxed about. Feeling fear doesn't even have to be a problem. It's our reactivity to it. So starting to rewire our reactivity to any feeling or a sensation is also a part of this viewscreen filling practice.

[00:09:26]I did this recently as I'm going back to the gym to start lifting weights after two years away. I know that my nervous system is sensitive to perceived threat and danger. I'm doing more telling my brain than scanning. I'm giving my brain messages like I do know how to care for myself. And I'm not checking in to see if I'm too sore. I'm just trusting that all is well. Giving myself soothing and kindness. Not anxiousness, fear and checking. And I'm practicing thoughts that I can believe to make that safety be felt and true in my system.

[00:10:05]My first workout with this new attitude was amazing. I had burning wobbly jelly legs and it felt like bliss. After my first time lifting in maybe two years and my body drank it all up like water in the desert. My body remembered all the form foundations. My brain got that relaxed buzzy hum that it gets when I lift heavy things repeatedly. I had told my awesome trainer and friend Kelly that I had been having some special intensity after working out, that I thought that my nervous system was in a threat mode and I wanted to keep it easy.

[00:10:44]I'm not usually easy. I am a go with stuff with intensity. Even pain healing. And Alan Gordon once told me that I was very high stakes. And he nailed it. I learn ALL the tools. I do ALL the things. I want to help ALL the people. And all of this ALL y'all is not giving my body mind, messages of safety.

[00:11:11] I love this gym for so many reasons, but now they have a system called RPE, rate of perceived exertion, which is like the experience of checking our emotions for lifting weights. To me RPE is about self friendship. It's about increasing our neuroception and self-efficacy without shame or force. It validates the reality that we have different bodies on different days, and there's no need to adhere to a linear trajectory.

[00:11:43] I love that I get to bring with me this deep understanding that my job, while lifting is to tell my nervous system that we are safe. This is why my legs can feel like jello and I'm smiling. Because this is my joy body. I feel relaxed, low steaks, interested in engaging, putting my body through an increased load demand, which is of benefit to my meaty parts. I've learned from my stairs experiment, not to be all or nothing. The cellular and muscle growth that I want to benefit from. Comes during rest. So the post workout experience is where the cellular and muscle growth come from. So resting, feeding myself well, and having a relaxed mind and attitude, also both during lifting and after lifting.

[00:12:39]That's what I think I was missing before. I was a little too much too soon. I love that I can learn and I can love myself through learning things that might feel challenging. So can you let it be easy? Or meet yourself with ease when you're doing something new?

[00:12:57]With increasing movement, it can be helpful to talk to ourselves and tell ourselves we are safe, but also to prove to ourselves that is true by operating with the heart of self-kindness. We can feel afraid and do something anyway. Think of the last time you've taken brave action because on the other side was something you really wanted or enjoyed? When I coached my client to take a walk down the block, which was what he desired to do. We made a whole graded exposure plan like we were going to go one house over and back, then two houses over and back, and three houses over and back. So that was our plan. But then he was willing to experiment with this brain training information. He actually ended up choosing an outcome independence approach. Looking for stray cats on his walk, the whole length of the block, he just did it in one go, with ease and without pain. So he made this up by himself, which I thought was fabulous. Um, because it's not an assignment, right. He's just like, this is what I wanted to do. And I decided that like, I'm just going to go for a walk, see how it goes. I'm going to look for cats because he loves cats. I'm going to look for these stray cats that I know, in the neighborhood, along the way.

[00:14:16]So he gave his brain/viewscreen something more desired and delightful to focus on. And whenever fear arose, he was willing to feel whatever came up. He was like, let's get curious. And see what's happening. He is not telling himself that he couldn't feel or deal with what was arising. His body and nervous system followed his attention. And that's a practice that takes repetition. Repetition is a very important function of brain training.

[00:14:49]So are you willing to talk to your brain more than listen to it? We are used to doing all kinds of evaluating and assessing. We don't know how we feel and then we step on the scale in the morning and then we let that determine our day. We look in the mirror and evaluate our appearance as being okay or not okay, and we let that determine how our day will go and the actions we take. Try telling yourself what you want your day to be like, or your experience of yourself, before you look in the mirror. Try saying whatever happens today, I'm amazing. Then look in the mirror or open your email. Or test your blood sugar, or go for the walk. It's true if you believe it. I believe I'm awesome. I don't believe it 24/7. But I don't make not feeling it mean that it's not true. It just means that I'm a human being with a human brain. But my physiological experience is not just something that happens to me, but something that I shape with my attention and my level of intensity or threat detection.

[00:15:59] I hope some of this lands for you. And I want you to start experimenting with this idea of talking to your brain, rather than just accepting kind of any of its sensory evaluation that it delivers to you. And always, if you want to know how to work with me, please visit my website at debmalkin.com. I'm currently offering my eight week pain recovery program. Where we explore your embodied map, we learn how to apply these tools of awareness, somatic tracking, building new neural pathways, exploring graded exposure and outcome independence. And we create goal setting around movement and life, because this is about the life that you want to live. Of your choosing.

[00:16:47]We get to figure that out together. I hope you have an amazing day. Thank you for listening and I'll talk to you next week.

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This week's episode I explore the sensations in my body when I feel the perfectionist urge arise. I'm getting really good at decoding my body talk.

I used to think I needed to do everything perfectly. I was raised by a perfectionist, who not so fun for me really did excel at so many things. Me, much less so. But I absorbed so many of those messages. My all or nothing brain is slowly and deliberately rebuilding my faith, love and compassion for my completely perfectly imperfect self and finding lots of healing along the way.

All you A students in pain, this is for you <3

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hi everyone. It's Deb with Move With Deb the podcast, and this is episode number 25. So today the lump in my throat is back. I finished settling into my new temporary place and getting ready to focus my energy, back onto myself and my life and my work. And I sat down to pay my dad's bills. The tension in my neck reappeared with ferocity. I could just feel my fears about making a mistake, of not doing this activity perfectly and it showed back up and it takes root in my body.

[00:01:31]And it's a thought. I have to do this perfectly. And the felt sense of that thought is somatically expressed in my body. It feels like someone is choking me. This pain and discomfort has actually been gone for a few days while I was settling in and my attentions were scattered and I was focusing on building my schedule and connecting with my friends and hanging out with this fabulous cat named Mack.

[00:02:01]But this activity and my caretaking duties feel really high stakes to me. And my body agrees. You can't mess this up. Even though that's kind of an impossible mandate. And it's also completely untrue. There's a million ways to do anything. One actually isn't necessarily better than another. But tell my brain that.

[00:02:27]This is the part where my perfectionist self is expressing my fear and desires for control.

[00:02:34] I see me. And I love me. And I am telling me. That it's okay. Because it is okay. This fear is the very well trained part of my brain that has a misguided belief that doing everything perfectly is what keeps me safe.

[00:02:53]That is a lie. But it's a comforting myth. One reinforced by my childhood, my watching my mother excel with ever increasing obsession and fixations on doing things right and well. We can, you know, go into her childhood, think about why she learned that. And go on and on back through our family's history and culture and come up with plenty of good reasons why this was the safety tool of choice. Perfectionism.

[00:03:27]It's reinforced by dominant culture that says successful people are rich or thin or white or productive. And it's been a mental muscle that I've exercised in the past when I've been confronted by fear. And I've created a condition response that fear is not something I can experience. The key to beating fear away is to be perfect and good. And as a kid who grew up fat, I also felt like I was kind of automatically not good. I had to be always performing goodness and perfectionism to overcome the "failure of my body".

[00:04:10]Dr Sarno, the author of Healing Back Pain, the Mindbody Prescription, and The Divided Mind, discovered in his rehabilitation program at NYU, many people suffering with back pain and all kinds of chronic pain, many of them shared similar traits of perfectionism, good ism and being helpers.

[00:04:32]This inner tension T, for "type T", are people who often are in resistance to their emotions, don't make time for their own feelings because of a sense of greater responsibility for others. The feeling that even small things are high stakes. And especially today, we can amplify that feeling with COVID anxiety and small things do feel like they're potentially high stakes. The repressing or resistance of emotions creates a message to the nervous system that these thoughts and feelings are dangerous and a threat to our safety. The repression of normal human emotion sets the stage for the mind body to create a distraction, to the felt sense that we see as unsurvivable.

[00:05:25] The brain and nervous system are our powerful allies. They are always protecting us. Even from ourselves. And we train or are trained in these patterns over our lifetime. It's not like we are taught the practice of emotional allowance or emotional processing by society or our families. It's often the opposite.

[00:05:52]Some of us chronic pain folks, or what I call myself a high somaticizer, we feel things deeply and quickly. I jokingly call myself a human tuning fork. Some chronic pain people are master repressors and feel safer living in their heads, detaching from their body because of trauma or habit or validation. And there's also this new understanding of neurodivergence and the spectrum that, that falls on, which often comes with it, a sensory sensitivity.

[00:06:27]Whatever it is, we practice becomes our cognitive somatic unconscious practice that our brain automates, because that is what brains do. So if we want a different experience, we need to engage in our body mind in a different way.

[00:06:44]There's a great list of personality traits from Dr. Sarno in the TMS Wiki. I see myself in so many of these. Perfectionism Good-ism, people pleasing, legalist, stoic, anxiety and fear, low self-esteem hostility and aggression. and dependency. I will post a link to this TMS traits that is on the TMS Wiki, which is a great resource for working on mind, body pain and getting to understand a little bit more about the mind body connection and relationship. https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/TMS_Personality_Traits

[00:07:22]When we pair this list with the concept of polyvagal theory, the mind's ability to create any experience in the body becomes clear. The brain and the nervous system are interpreters of all sensory input, including thoughts and feelings. The body responds to threats by going into fight flight or freeze mode. Some people also add in fawn, which I think of as people pleasing. And it's like a personality mechanism for creating safety. So I'm not really sure that it's an actual autonomic nervous system response itself. But it's definitely correlated with hypervigilance and managing PTSD and fear. It's a strategy.

[00:08:07]I'm not always sure that it's important to be so specific about getting all the details right, because I think it's just about understanding the larger mechanism that is really powerful. Our mind creates thoughts. They can be thoughts in relationship to a life circumstance like paying bills. Or to a physical sensation.

[00:08:30] And our body has a felt sense of that thought. Often the thought or the felt sense are unconscious. We think of these things just as facts like the circumstance, but they aren't really, they're just really fast conditioned responses.

[00:08:47] Which means we can slow everything down and uncondition the response. Which really means that we condition a new response. One that is more neutral or positive for the nervous system. Or another way of saying that less reactive, less likely to send the body into fight flight freeze mode. Note, our nervous system response is vitally important for our survival.

[00:09:21]And cognitively, I can recognize that paying a bill, isn't dangerous, but somatically, my body is going to be responding to the unconscious thought or belief. And the belief is just a thought that we have practiced until it's become part of our self concept.

[00:09:41]In this situation, I can recognize a lot of thoughts that are arising. Thoughts like, I can't fuck this up. I'm responsible for my father's wellbeing. Being nervous that this check might bounce, if I haven't accounted for all of the outstanding bills or so I also have thoughts about being lonely, separate from others, being the one who takes care of other people but I'm not being taken care of. So all of those thoughts go into the mix of my nervous system. And if I don't make room for the feelings that arise to be felt, my system will create resistance, to what I'm telling myself cannot be allowed to be experienced. And oftentimes we create that resistance because we are in belief, that if I think of thought, it must be true.

[00:10:35] So uncoupling the idea that thoughts are true, is really an important part of this healing process. And I might even have anger that I'm not willing to express or be acknowledged.

[00:10:51]There is a great review of perfectionism and chronic pain from the Institute for Chronic Pain. And I'll add that into the show notes. So I'm reading from this article, it says let's define perfectionism. Perfectionism is a trait of an individual that involves two components. Holding oneself to standards that are never quite attainable. Or at least for not very long and the compulsive need to nevertheless, try to attain those accessibly high standards.

[00:11:20] So the perfectionist is never quite satisfied with what they do and can't seem from trying to make what they do better in some way. If on those infrequent occasions, the perfectionist is satisfied. It usually only lasts until they see some flaw in the original project and attempts to correct it. Or only if they move on to the next thing on the to-do list.

[00:11:45]I'm going to end reading there. But there's a lot about high standards, compulsivity, not celebrating yourself. And the myth that doing something perfectly will result in a feeling that you want to be having. And will result in the absence of fear or the absence of an unpleasant emotion that you don't want to experience.

https://www.instituteforchronicpain.org/blog/item/158-61the-perfectionist-and-chronic-pain-how-to-cope-with-pain-series

[00:12:11]I find a lot of overlap of perfectionism and OCD. It can often feel like a compulsion. The ego threat. of not doing everything right. Or the belief in the myth of doing everything right, whatever that is, will provide the talisman of protection and safety.

[00:12:31]We certainly have a lot of bio-psycho-social factors that go into reinforcing that belief. From poverty, shaming. To our education system of grading and praising students with high grades. The lack of safety nets for people struggling with either physical or mental health. The complete mess that is diet culture, anti-fat illness, racism, patriarchy, and this society that proclaimed some bodies are more valuable and worthy than other bodies.

[00:13:01] It's not a surprise that we aren't trusting, relaxed or confident about our own survival. And we create rituals to give us the illusion of safety and perfectionism is one that could be highly rewarded, but comes at a high cost, our mental and physical wellbeing. So, what is the answer?

[00:13:24]For me, the answer is this work, developing the skill of conscious, loving self friendship, and learning to tell myself the story of my own safety. Even when I might be in disbelief. Learning the meta skill of emotional allowance and emotional processing. Moving myself out of the habit of reacting to how I think things should be and at the very least, accepting the reality of what is, even if I am working towards future change. Developing a practice of surrendering the past into the past. Practicing skills like somatic tracking, leaning into neutral or pleasant sensations, creating a practice of outcome independence. Present and future focusing without falling into the dreamy habit of perfectionism future fantasy. Really understanding that life will always be 50 50. Because only in a dream state, do we get to believe that if all things go perfectly, I will never have a negative feeling.

[00:14:37] Deciding that all feelings are friends. And all feelings are for me. They are not created by other people. They are the felt sense of my thinking. Which might be about other people. But it is my internal communication system being activated. It is useful to practice how to listen. To be willing to see the thoughts that I'm thinking. Even if they bring up feelings, I don't like, like fear, shame, embarrassment, and so on. Being willing to feel these feelings is what allows my body to relax. And not experience them as threats. No threat. No alarm. No need for protection.

[00:15:25]And it's a practice. Practicing requires the experience of not doing something well. Not doing things well, really sucks for a perfectionist. And yet, it is the antidote. Doing things not well and loving ourselves through it. Finding joy where there is joy, imperfect, messy, maybe confusing joy and really filling ourselves up with it. Being audacious enough to lean into our attention, fear and freak outs, not as stuff that needs to be stuffed down and controlled, but just human stuff that we take along with us while we live our lives ,while we pursue the lives that we want to be living. Paying bills badly, making mistakes, learning from them and knowing we will definitely make future mistakes. Celebrating the fuck out of mistakes that are made that are low stakes, and we can see that and let ourselves off the hook. Every time we fuck up and care for ourselves through it. We create exquisite safety for our human experience.

[00:16:39]If you go back to episode 10. Move with ease a practice for transitions. I described doing a thought dump and how allowing our unconscious thoughts to be seen is an important part of this practice. After writing this episode and having a quick cry midway through, I actually feel a lot better. My throat feels so much better. And I don't need to be perfect or pain-free to teach what I've learned. I learn and relearn this work because I am just like you. Full of fear and doing it anyway. Healing myself and healing in relationship with others.

[00:17:16]And I've had a wild few days doing a bunch of physical activity. Three days in a row and surprisingly or not, my body is not flared up and freaked out. I feel sore, but it's an okay sore. So I'll say more about that next week, I think, unless I come up with something else.

[00:17:34] But stay tuned for more thoughts on neuro inflammation and the mind body process around movement and pain.

[00:17:41]Always, if you want to know how to work with me, please visit my website, Debmalkin.com I'm currently offering my eight week pain recovery program. Explore your own embodied map. Learn how to apply these tools of awareness, somatic tracking, building neural pathways, as well as exploring graded exposure and goal setting around movement and life. This is about the life you want to live. The life of your choosing. And emotions are part of that life.

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I've been traveling and seeing some old friends and I've been having some very interesting somatic experiences being present in my body, leaning into connection and feeling the absence of an old friend, comparison. :) I chat about the role of feelings, self judgement and how emotional allowance and self friendship is the key to healing.

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello and welcome to Move With Deb the podcast. This is episode number 24. And I've been driving across the country, getting to spend some time with some old friends, some from college days and it has been so interesting.

[00:01:13]I was hanging out with an old friend and I felt the residual effects of comparison. But what was more telling was that I felt more the lack of comparison. It was, if I was seeing these lovely humans for the first time. Which made me realize I spent most of my younger adult life comparing myself with others in small and big ways. Especially around body size but pretty much in all areas. I trained my brain to always think of me as failing, and others as succeeding. Which often didn't let me see what was going on in their life. It certainly prevented me from seeing what I was doing well, Or feeling relaxed and secure about who I was in the moment. I always felt like I needed to be better.

[00:02:11]I feel a lot of sadness about this reflection. But I also know that it is true. The felt sense of not being good enough seems to run through my DNA. But that's not really a story that I want to continue to perpetuate. What's so interesting now is my willingness to feel it. To feel the not good enoughness. To feel the resentment of a life colored by that. The confusion of not knowing how to create the way out. I have so much compassion for that me.

[00:02:54]And then I was able to sit and enjoy appreciation of who she is. Of who I am. I heard stories from my friend that I couldn't have heard back then. And didn't even know how to ask. Because I assumed that she had it all together. That she had things that I didn't have. I heard about insecurities. I knew nothing about. Because I was always imagining her life better than mine. Measured by a marker that neither of us chose.

[00:03:27]Whatever it was body size. Relationship length. Business longevity. Drive and creativity. I got to listen and share and connect this visit. And it felt like such a relief. I let myself be me. And I let her be her. And we are both amazing. And human.

[00:03:54]I don't need my past to be different. My past was. Even if I would do things differently now. It doesn't serve me to spin my wheels and spend the energy wishing things had been different when they weren't. That is a cause for inner conflict and ego helplessness which Dr. Sarno believed is a driver of TMS pain.

[00:04:21]I was the best I could be. And I did the best I could at the time. Wishing things in the past were different keeps our brain focused in fear trying to keep the past from repeating. But the fastest way to the past to not repeat itself is to focus our attention on the present. And the desired future.

[00:04:43] There is no need for fear if there's not a concern about the past repeating itself. I tell my clients when they learn how to rewire their pain. That meta skill becomes theirs. And never again, do they need to live in fear of pain returning because they have the tools for now and in the future. The past is over.

[00:05:07] Learn to leave it behind.

[00:05:09]I was thinking about my younger self, my late teens and twenties, self. I barely remember that time. Because I think in a lot of ways, I wasn't paying attention. Because I was in that deep resistance, fear, subtle self rejection and comparison place. I used to read self-help books to learn how to be different.

[00:05:31]It wasn't about getting to know myself. Because why would I want to know me? I didn't want to be me. I would buy these books that had worksheets all the time and I would never do the worksheets. Then I would feel a lot of shame about never doing the worksheets. Never doing the study right. Never doing the work in the book correctly, but that didn't stop me from buying another self-help book.

[00:05:58]Also the books I bought were selling me on the premise that I was a shitty version of my potential self. So I could never arrive at self love from a place of self rejection. Trying to do those worksheets felt like a reminder of all the things that I didn't like about myself. And all the solutions I could never make happen. I never got to be a different person.

[00:06:27]Now I'm like, Hmm. Worksheets. Might bring me closer to me. Because my fear is only my thoughts in my head. And learning to allow it is what lowers the resistance, which means less threat to my nervous system. Which means fewer symptoms, more resiliency. More insight. More love. And connection with all the parts of me. Even if they're things I want to be different in the future. It all starts with growing from self love and friendship. Growing through fear will never bring you to self-love.

[00:07:10]So. Now I look at worksheets totally differently. And it lights this curious awareness, this lighthearted curious sensibility. Who am I. What am I thinking? Why am I thinking that? What am I making that mean? Oh, that's so fascinating brain that you would offer me that thought. And I often have kind of a, bemused frustrated but also sometimes delighted relationship with my brain these days.

[00:07:43]But pain and anxiety are often the vibrations of resistance and running from fear. So the solution is to get amazing at feeling. Not fixing.

[00:07:57]So, how do we feel an emotion? Well, let's get a definition going. Emotions are biologically based psychological states brought on by neurophysiological changes, variously associated with thoughts, feelings, behavioral responses and a degree of pleasure or displeasure. And then it says there is currently no scientific consensus on a definition.

[00:08:28] In this moment, I'm going to say again, one of my favorite books. Is How Emotions Are Made by Lisa Feldman Barrett. You want to get deep in the weeds of what emotions are. I highly recommend reading that book.

[00:08:44]I like to think of emotions. As the felt sense of a thought. It's a vibration in my body. Maybe it has higher arousal or lower arousal. There's a quality of moving towards something or away from something. words in my body.

[00:09:02]And how do we process or allow an emotion? I hear people talk about. Not having time to feel their feelings or deal with their feelings. That implies that there needs to be some kind of action taken to resolve a feeling. As if the feeling is a check engine light on a car and telling you that something is broken.

[00:09:24]There's nothing broken. We are meant to feel. Our bodies are literally designed for it. Our body responds to emotions with physical experiences on purpose. As designed. There's no flaw. Except that we believe it shouldn't be happening.

[00:09:45]When we believe this feeling shouldn't be happening. Then we feel another feeling like resistance or anger. Or we try really hard not to feel the original feeling. And then we don't feel anything at all. Because we believe that feeling that unpleasant feeling means that the originating thought of that feeling must be true. That's an unfortunate misunderstanding.

[00:10:10] So feeling is literally a sensation in your body. You can allow a feeling to be there and still go on about your day. And it's okay that you don't know how to do that. You can do this thing called practicing.

[00:10:25]Allowing a feeling or processing a feeling is simple. All you need to do is let the sensations be there and meet them with a sense of welcome and curiosity. I will narrate them. This feels like sadness. My chest feels heavy and clunky. There's a tingling sensation on the bridge of my nose. My jaw aches slightly. My breath feels like lead. Hard to take in a deep, full breath. A shiver travels at my spinal column to my upper back and radiates out causing me to shutter. As I hang out with this feeling telling myself that I'm safe, having any feeling. I checked to see if I'm trying to suppress it. And remind myself that all feelings are allowed.

[00:11:16]When I tell myself I don't have to fix my feelings or take any action I can feel my muscles relax. My feelings are just here to say words to me with my body. This takes practice. And the willingness to practice this, be bad at it, and continue to work at creating emotional safety and having emotions is one of the most important healing skills. I hope that you will go ahead and try it.

[00:11:46]Always, if you want to know how to work with me. Please visit my website. I'm currently offering my eight week pain recovery program. Explore your own embodied map, how to apply these tools of awareness, somatic tracking, building new neural pathways. As well as exploring graded exposure. And goal setting around movement and life. This is about the life that you want to live of your choosing. And emotions are part of that life.

[00:12:17]I hope you have an amazing day. Thank you for listening. I'll talk to you next week.

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My body is in a pain flair and wow is it not fun. But it sure is full of insights and learning. I am on the mend and excited to share my ongoing insights with you. The one thing I'm not, is afraid that that is a giant blessing.

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com
Here's a link to the instagram of my somatic singing. - https://www.instagram.com/p/CRQEvW1gMlW/?

Transcript

[00:00:50] Welcome to move with Deb. Today is episode 23. I am calling this episode hot flair city.

[00:01:01]So it's been a little knees on fire. It's probably been a week and I don't know why.

[00:01:09]Here's what I do know. I'm curious. And not afraid.

[00:01:14]I am annoyed. As fuck. But I'm not afraid.

[00:01:18]So that's exciting. That alone in and of itself feels like a great accomplishment. And I always like to celebrate things. So I'm celebrating the hell out of feeling pain and not being afraid. I'm assuming that my nervous system is sensitized and I'm going to keep moving and delivering myself messages of safety.

[00:01:43] I got back on my balance board and I'm really working on standing upright and making lots of micro balance movements and asking my body to trust that I'm safe. And that I'm okay. And that board work feels really good. It feels really exciting to be making those movements and watching myself balance. I really like doing the balance board because it's fun. And that part is really important.

[00:02:11]I'm taking a wee break from my stairs practice. Because maybe multiple times going up and down the stairs is kicking up some inflammation. I'm not really sure. It's not making sense to me as I totally have the muscle strength to walk up and down the stairs. As I've progressively been doing this activity I've had more pain. And more difficulty. So that tells me something.

[00:02:39]This feels similar to the DOMS, to the delayed onset muscle soreness that I felt the other month when I had three subsequent days of hiking after not moving for a long time, because I had twisted my ankle.

[00:02:55]So this could be an inflammatory process. It could be nervous system overload. What I feel confident about is that it's not tissue damage. I recovered just fine from my hiking a few weeks ago. This pain isn't constant. Thoughts are it might be related to lipedema. I was on a lipedema , Instagram live last week with Patti from @lipedemafitness and Crystal from @CFrevolution. And I was there sharing my experiences as a pain coach, as a person with lipedema and how we can use these methods to turn that volume dial down on unpleasant pain and sensations.

[00:03:40]There's a lot of stuff for me in seeing myself in this role as a teacher. And somebody who helps people. It's kind of very high stakes for me. So it also would not surprise me that if my thoughts about sharing this work also, was playing a role in the intensity of the sensations, in the intensity of the nervous system response.

[00:04:09]I've definitely had times when I've been able to train multiple times, multiple days in a row without pain. This is not my constant state of being. I'm also aware that I put a lot of pressure on myself to not feel excessive pain and that pressure can cause me to be overly critical or hyper-focused.

[00:04:29]I will keep exploring. I'm going to add in some recovery time for my stairs practice and not do it every day for now. I do like that mentally I was ready to do the stairs each time. I will also claim that as a giant success. Even while I was moving through some discomfort, and some challenges that I wanted to climb the stairs, that I thought that was enjoyable. That those were movements that I wanted to add into my life. And that I actually thought it was fun. I'm going to give myself some thumbs up for that and we'll see what happens in terms of calming down this inflammatory response that I'm feeling.

[00:05:12] The other day after coming home, I was feeling a little stiff. And I just decided before getting in the elevator, coming back into my apartment, that I would just walk around my parking lot. I would just take this moment, this transition moment.

[00:05:28] The transition from getting out of the car, feeling some stiffness, getting into the elevator coming home and sitting down. What I thought I would do would be to take a relaxed walk around the parking lot. So that I could move in a way that trained my brain to notice that we were safe, moving. So I walked around the parking lot with a very relaxed attitude. Relaxation into my quads. My feet. My body. I was saying, Hey body. You're safe. Let's just relax as we move. I wasn't really paying attention to any particular sensation. Just inviting in the awareness of the relaxation. And then I turned my other senses on. I noticed what the warm sun felt like on my skin. I was busy looking at the trees and the foliage around me. And after a few minutes, everything relaxed. I could feel a difference in the strength. So what went from feeling maybe shaky or unsure or a little edgy in terms of walking. I walked around. Everything relaxed and that strength and confidence just reemerged. It just came back as if it was muted. And it just like showed back up. And that's what I felt. I thought that was amazing because I'm just taking a relaxed walk around a parking lot. And I can go from feeling not strong to strong. Just by tapping into this calm, resourced, nervous system. Did not have to go to the gym. I didn't have to do any particular activity. Other than walk with a sense of safety.

[00:07:28] I love that moment because that moment teaches me everything I need to know. I just kept telling myself. This is easy. This is totally within my abilities. And I kept relaxing my muscles in my mind's eye. And I let it be enough and I didn't push past anything. It was a huge somatic shift. And I will keep playing and building upon it. So thank you flair for being my teacher. I really needed you to show up right now.

[00:08:02]And I'm curious about this inflammation piece and I'm going to try to investigate it without falling down all of the pain, fat inflammation, Venn diagram holes that there are on the internet. So I will. Come back. And share those resources. Share those ideas or share my embodied experience with inflammatory pain. And let's see what happens.

[00:08:32]So how do we fight the pain? Someone on a pain science group that I'm in asked this question. There were many good answers. And this one is mine.

[00:08:45]One, by not fighting. By doing the work of creating safety for your nervous system.

[00:08:51] Two, learning the relationship between the fear -brain- pain- fear cycle.

[00:08:58]Three, connecting to and feeling your emotions with a sense of safety.

[00:09:04]Four, healing your fight flight nervous system reaction.

[00:09:08]Five, doing graded exposure and outcome independence to start moving again and rebuilding physical capacity.

[00:09:17]Six, make changes in your life that support your agency and wellbeing.

[00:09:23] Seven, build a first aid kit of mind, body support whether it's podcasts, books meditations or more.

[00:09:31]I want to reflect back on feeling your feelings with a sense of safety. That's been something that's been going on for me lately. So that also might be a factor in this feeling more sensitized to pain. I've been having a lot of emotions, having a lot of overwhelm.

[00:09:52] The other day I posted this thing that I do on occasion on my Instagram. That I call somatic singing. And it's just where I make up a refrain about how I'm feeling right now if I'm feeling kind of emotionally blocked and I'll just sing it over and over and over again. Until I feel like connected with myself. Until I feel like the emotions that need to be heard by me are heard. So you can go on my Instagram and listen to the song that I sang. And here's some stuff that I wrote about it.

[00:10:32] This song and a huge flood of tears came pouring out of me tonight. I sang this little refrain over and over until the cycle felt complete. I call this somatic singing. It helps me allow and befriend my emotions. I'm not writing a song to produce anything. I'm just caring for myself. Using my connection to self. Through song. I've been feeling very sad, lonely and scared today.

[00:11:06] And that's okay. My emotions are for me.

[00:11:10]My feelings, remind me that I care. My feelings remind me that being alive is precious. There's so much awe to be found in the 50/50. So much relief when I allow an emotion to be felt and move through me. And I'm enjoying the relaxing post cry neurochemical wash.

[00:11:38]I would probably figure out how to share that song with you, even though it's not really meant to be shared because it's a little embarrassing, but that's what I do. I am taking you on a tour and a journey through my own mind, body experience. Because I am human, just like you. I feel pain. Just like you. I also know that my pain volume control is in my hands. That I can turn that pain up and I can turn that pain down and I can turn that pain so far down that it goes unnoticed by my safety system. And that is my goal for me. And that is my goal for you. And I will continue to help explain this concept and share these ideas with you as long as possible.

[00:12:32]I have had great conversations this week with clients who, through using these tools of changing their attention, lowering catastrophizing, getting into their fear brain and what their pain means. I've had clients reduce the amount of leg pain they were feeling in a week through using these tools. And another client, yeah, again, dealing with sciatic pain. And she said she's feeling much better and everything's much lower. So we just build on this process. Find little moments where we feel no pain. Where we feel a shift in sensation. When we feel, a release of catastrophizing when we are allowing ourselves to bear witness and to be friends with ourselves, with all of the parts of us that we don't like, that we wish were different including the pain and the sensations that we feel.

[00:13:36]The body is full of sensors and receptors. And the brain is constantly interpreting that sensory data. So our job is to tell the brain and the nervous system that this sensory data is not dangerous. That there's nothing to be concerned about. And, you know, not all sensory data is TMS. So it also is good to go to the doctor. Get things checked out, find out what's going on in your body. But there's a lot of ways in which we can create safety long after an injury is healed, we're still feeling pain. Getting a test that, basically just is that the evaluation is that you have pain. And the doctor uses a lot of words to basically tell you that you're having pain in a particular area. So like tendonitis just means you have pain in your tendon. So pain can happen anywhere, in any place in the body. And using these tools can really help bring the entire sense of threat and safety into focus. To be our own human laboratory. And take control of our sensations.

[00:14:52]I hope that today's podcast has been helpful and interesting for you. I invite you to follow me on Instagram, where I share a lot of these things that are happening when they're happening. And that is Instagram @movewithdeb.

[00:15:11] And I have room in my eight week pain recovery program. That's an individualized one-on-one coaching program that contains four weeks of pain science education materials. And then we do eight weeks total of one-on-one coaching where we talk through what's happening for you? In your body. Can we come up with solutions and how to apply these strategies, so that we retrain your brain and your nervous system away from pain.

[00:15:50]I hope that you're having a glorious day. I hope that your flares, if you've experienced them are short. I really encourage you to whenever possible, let go of the fear. Or learn to make friends with fear in a way that benefits you. Thank you so much for listening.

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This week I am chatting about a spin I lovingly pulled myself out of and how it relates my client's fear/anxiety brain this week. We chatted about the fact that some thoughts are like cartoon snowballs. You know that they're like one of those if it's leading you to completely ignore all the true facts
Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hi, and welcome to Move With Deb. This is episode number 22. And I am calling this my Meta Moment. So I have been in it. I am starting a coaching gig and there's a lot to learn. And I have been watching myself work myself up. It's kind of amazing. I've been setting off my fight or flight nervous the system for the last two days. Yesterday, because I needed to give a headshot for this new job.

[00:01:27]My first impulse was to look through all the photos that I had already taken and that surely I would find a photo here that is like headshot photo-ey and that I would send that over easy peasy, done and done. And I looked through all my photos. Then I kind of went down that ADHD road where you're like, look at a photo. And then you think about the thing that happened. And then you suddenly end up like looking on Facebook and thinking about the events.

[00:01:58] So there was that derailing experience. Um, and then there were some photos that I found that I liked myself and I was trying to crop them or some photos. I was like thinking really critically about them. Like this one is too casual. This one isn't professional. This one doesn't look like you today because today you have pink hair. Uh, this is a selfie for a dating app.

[00:02:24]My critical brain stole my morning from me. I spent a lot of time. And I spent a lot of time thinking that the answer had to have been in the past. Something that I'd done already. And the more I searched, the more upset and avoidant I got. The more avoidant I got, the more I started to catastrophize and doubt my abilities to even show up for my job.

[00:02:54] Like my brain delivered me these thoughts. If I can't send in this photo and bio, how am I ever going to do this work? Which meant I completely discounted all the work I do and already have been doing. I stopped being able to hear that my voice was desired and sought after for this job. I started to believe those voices in my head that told me that I can't. And then like a little flash of lightning, I realized I was in a spin. And I told myself, self you're in a spin. I love you. Creativity and action are the answer. I popped on some makeup. I took my phone and my selfie stick, and I took a bunch of photos and I came up with a few that I really love. Now, this whole endeavor took me 10 minutes, 15 minutes, maybe. I didn't even need to leave the other side of my front door. I opened up my front door. There's a beautiful tree that's behind me. I attached my phone to the door, somehow, jerry rigging it so that I could just hit the camera button. And I got a whole bunch of awesome photos that I actually really love. Problem solved.

[00:04:14]And maybe in the future, I'll even invest in a professional photo shoot. Then I'll have a whole bunch of photos. I'll have an entire file worth of photos! But it's not really about the outcome. It's about interrupting the spin in a loving, friendly way. And redirecting my mind body to my desired outcome. So while I can't get that time back, I've been able to observe myself with compassion.

[00:04:42]This is Deb when she's in fear and perfectionism brain. That's okay. I see you and I love you. And we got this. We're gonna jump into work and learn as we go because that's neuroplasticity. That's learning. That's how you've done everything in your life. From tying a shoe to riding a bicycle. To creating a coaching practice that successfully helps people change their pain. I told myself I've got the tools. Holding my own hand through doing something new and scary. Taking time to breathe, ground and eat. Turning on curious awareness with self critical thoughts. So that means be aware, but not be-lieve. Taking action anyway, even with a nervous tummy and a fluttery heart.

[00:05:42]My body was giving me lots of messages that this was scary, that there was doom, that something terrible was happening. My head was hurting. I was feeling dizzy. And the more that I was spinning, the more my body was kind of protecting me from these fear thoughts, or at least my body was responding to the fear thoughts. It's not that a photo is inherently scary. There is nothing terrifying about taking a selfie. I have taken many selfies. I have joyfully posted selfies all over the internet and I have taken lots of selfies that I hit delete on. I will live to take a selfie another day.

[00:06:46]So it's not the photo that created fear, but in some ways it was the entire mind body experience. I had a thought that this is difficult and then I couldn't find a photo. And then that triggered a sensation of panic. And then it just kind of tumbled down that way. It's like pushing a snowball down a hill and watching it get bigger and bigger and bigger.

[00:07:14] Okay. a cartoon snowball down a hill. I don't think a real snowball will actually do that. But sometimes it feels like a cartoon in my brain. Because these words pop into my head, they feel like they come from nowhere and then my body responds to them. If that's not a cartoon, I don't really know what it is.

[00:07:39]Once I was able to recognize that I was in a spin, I was able to stop it. And that moment where I was like, we're done doing this activity, what is it that we need? We need a photo. How do we get a photo? We take a photo. And then all of a sudden my brain was like, we know how to take a photo, let's go take a photo. And then I figured it out. It's okay that it took me 10 minutes to figure that out. But it also took me two days of freaking out about sending in a photo and a bio, because this is my meta moment. These are the things that teach me the relationship between the mind and the body. And that's, what's important when we're talking about rewiring pain. We want to begin to observe the relationship between the thoughts in our mind and the sensations in our body.

[00:08:41]One of my clients today, we're just starting to work on this So she is in a hundred percent full belief about neuroplastic pain. She has witnessed her own experience of migraines going away and her big concern right now are tension headaches. And she went through what she described as a flare this weekend. But what really was going on when she was telling me the story was that the fear and catastrophizing that arose in her body when she thought the thought maybe I'm missing something, was the snowball down the hill. That was her cartoon snowball thought. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe this pain will never go away.

[00:09:34]So we talked about neuroplasticity being like a road that we drive down over and over again. She and I talked about driving as a skill. I said, when you first started to drive, were you good at it? She said, of course not. I said now when you get in the car to drive to the store, do you ever even think about the mechanism of driving? She's like, no, I just drive to the store. I'm like, of course, because that's learning, that's neuroplasticity. When you first started to drive, you had to think about it. You had to be very deliberate in every action that you were taking because you were building the relationship between all of your senses. And your motor neurons. And it's the same for rewiring pain.

[00:10:28] We have to practice on purpose these things. We want to observe our sensations with loving kindness, with a neutral curiosity, or even a loving, curiosity. Then as we're feeling sensations, we want to notice and create awareness of the thoughts that we're thinking. We want to start to build this habit of observing without reactivity. And that's the part that is going to lower the threat level. It's going to change the physiological response of having a thought or a sensation in your body. Then, what we do is we build some belief thoughts that we're going to practice on purpose.

[00:11:19] So just like learning how to drive a car, you need to practice . Unless you are a cartoon, you don't know how to drive until you learn how to drive. So you're not going to learn how to drive your pain away until you let yourself learn. Which means letting it be hard. Which means watching yourself spin and bringing yourself out of spin with love, with self-compassion, with holding your own hand, while you do something hard while feeling sensations in your body, like a nervous tummy or a fluttery heart. And not thinking they shouldn't be there. Want to build that muscle of curious awareness with the self critical thoughts, with the fear thoughts, with the doom that you might be feeling.

[00:12:17]She and I talked about if neuroplasticity is a road that you travel down and the more you travel down that road, the more myelinated it gets, what are the roads that you're living on? So we decided that she lived at the crossroad of what if I'm missing something and this pain will never go away. That is the literal location of her bodymind if it was a house. At least that's where it was when she was deep in fear. Now we're going to move that house to a new road. And her new road, thoughts like these are just sensations. I've made my pain go away before. I understand what pain is. There is no need to have fear. So she's got to practice. She may not find the right road right off the bat and that's okay. We actually only know what is working when we also know what is not working. It's not about getting it done right away. It's not about having the magic saying. It is literally about the process of witnessing our own mind, create our new felt sense and reality of our body.

[00:13:36]And when I started offering these ideas to her, the fear went away. I reminded her that she had already mastered this. That she has already changed her pain. She told me multiple stories this week about having conversations with her pain about getting on a boat. The last time she was on a boat, she had a lot of pain. It triggered a migraine. This time she got on a boat and she felt great. She held her own hand. She knew that she can deal with anything that came up. And then she had a moment that she forgot. And that's okay. It's okay that they keep showing up.

[00:14:17] This was the main thing I think that really helped her is that it's not that you shouldn't think a thought or that we need to stop thinking a thought. We just need to stop believing that that thought is true. Especially, when we have a mountain of evidence that says the opposite.

[00:14:36]So when we stop reacting to a thought, we create the curious awareness with any thought, and then we actively choose to think a thought that gets us towards the outcome that we want, our embodied experience is going to change. Just like I went from spinning about the photos to taking a photo. Yes the action of taking the photo, completed the task. I also really enjoyed the photos that I took. And then I also got a chance to prove to myself like Hey, this is a thing you can do, you just took a great photo of yourself and you solved this problem.

[00:15:16]And I also showed myself you can spin, and I'm going to love you anyway. You can freak yourself out and waste your own time and it's okay because I still think you're amazing. And I can hold my own hand through the process of being me in my meta moments when I forget the mind body experience. And then when I remember the mind body experience.

[00:15:44] What I'm grateful for is that I had my own back, that I knew that I wanted to show up for this job. I wanted to show up for myself. I knew that that was really important. And even though in that moment, I felt like I was doing everything wrong. I knew that I could figure it out and that I would figure it out. Even if I didn't know how I was going to figure it out.

[00:16:12]It's interesting when we think about neuroplasticity and driving, because when they updated the cars with the push button start. I remember being really annoyed. I was like, what is this button? I don't understand it. It's requiring me to learn something new. I've been driving for decades. I just want a key. Can you see how so much, resistance there was to learning something new? And I don't know what that is about. I think that there is some kind of, there is some kind of biological part about that, or maybe it's just a learned conditioned response. But the brain kind of is like, oh, I have to learn something new, learning new things is hard.

[00:17:04] So could have been that. And then whatever our orientation towards learning. Towards not knowing something is often the thing that colors our experience of learning with a mood. So maybe because I'm often self-critical or I believe that I should know things that I don't know. Then when I go to learn something, if I have the belief that I should know this already, well, of course, I'm going to feel and act defensive. But now that I'm rewiring my whole relationship to knowing and not knowing, that's changing. Now, I'm like one, I don't assume that I should know something.

[00:17:49] And two, when I lean into the curiosity, I find a lot of joy and pleasure and excitement in that. So maybe next time they update the car, actually I had this happen. I am now driving a hybrid and there's a lot of new things about it. And I can feel my brain being like, what's this button do what's this button do, what does this do? What does this mean? Oh, I can look at the battery, watch it go up and down. And. I have a sense of curiosity and delight that I didn't have when I had to learn how to transition to the push button start. It required learning a new motor pattern.

[00:18:30] Right. I was used to the old motor pattern, the old motor pattern programmed in my brain. Learning how to do the push button ignition. That's a new motor pattern, but I did not like it. I was super grumpy. Now that I'm learning about curiosity, finding joy and pleasure in it, developing this curious awareness, this lazy detective who like follows me around and lets me know when I'm like being reactive. I am changing my embodied experience with learning.

[00:19:09]If you listened to my podcast about urgency, urgency and reactivity are very similar. The felt sense of reactivity often creates very high arousal. When we experience very high arousal, depending on our load on our nervous system might push us out of our window of tolerance. Our body is going to respond to that reactivity, to that sensation, to that thought. We might feel anger. We might feel that in our bodies, we might sweat, our head might get hot. It might hurt, our heart might beat really fast. We might feel an arousal, of adrenaline cortisol.

[00:19:56] Every thought that we have creates an embodied experience. A thought is another kind of sense. You have thoughts and we have feelings. We've kind of let them be separate. But when we talk about the mind and the body's relationship together, it's very helpful to think physiologically as well as psychologically. Because with my client who was overwhelming herself with this thought, I asked her when you think the thought this pain will never go away. What's your feeling. She said, I feel doom. And then she went on to describe a whole bunch of sensations in her body that her chest tightened that her head started to feel tight. And I said, so that's, that's the whole thing. That's all there is. We have a thought. We have a feeling, we have a sensation in our body.

[00:20:59]Before our conversation, what would happen was she would ask herself why all the time, why is this happening? Why is this happening? Why is this happening? What's going on? What am I doing wrong? I'm doing it wrong. These other people got out of pain faster than I did. She wound herself up thinking psychologically, what is wrong with me? Why am I not getting it? What is happening to me?

[00:21:26] Those thoughts are recreating a feeling, and that feeling created a sense of panic. So when you put all of those thoughts coming at you together without a break, without any space in between them, that feeling can become a panic attack. Now, what a panic attack is, is basically just an overwhelming series of sensations in your body that are unpleasant.

[00:21:53]So when I explained the felt sense of a thought to her, I said, what we're going to do is make some space. We're going to start observing the thoughts that you're thinking. We're gonna celebrate having observed them because we want to reward ourselves. And then we can just start seeing if there are themes, if there are trends that arise. But mainly the main skill is to just notice that you're having a thought without reacting. She immediately calmed down. She immediately moved out of fear. The fear left in that moment. Fear is not fixed. There's no emotion that is fixed. We don't need to fear having an emotion because in the next moment we could have a different emotion.

[00:22:45]So she had fear. She had some thoughts. She had some sensations, she didn't enjoy that experience, but that experience is teaching her how to not have that in the future. How to get herself out of a spin. How to interpret the thoughts and sensations that come into her body with neutrality, without setting off her alarm system. She's building a skill. She's learning to drive this car. She's learning to move her mind body home to the different neuro-plasticity streets that she's going to be driving on. But you only get those roads as you drive to them. They don't just show up. And then you move there like moving to a new house. You have to build them. Building them, takes repetition. And then eventually you find out that this is where you live.

[00:23:42]So I'm in that process. This is my Meta-Moment. I'm so glad that I got to share it with you and glad I got to share it with my client today. Always learning. That's Move With Deb.

[00:23:56]If any of this is interesting to you, if you would like to learn more about the mind, body connection about the relationship between thoughts and feelings, the relationship between sensations, past injuries, neuroplastic pain, how to rewire pain and emotional overwhelm. Please check my website. debmalkin.com. You can book a 45 minute curiosity call with me, and I will explain my eight week pain recovery program. And we can see if that's a process that might be really beneficial for you. If you it sign up on my email list, there is a long list of resources. There's a lot of people out here teaching similar work. There's a lot of ways to start to rewire your neuroplastic pain. Looking forward to sharing more with you. And if you want to see some of my real life adventures, please follow me on Instagram at@movewithdeb. I'll talk to you next week. Thanks.

[00:25:04]

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In this episode I touch in briefly about why the brain as a predictive organ will continue to create body pain and muscle inhibition. I walk you through my experiences in doing a stair walking practice and the ways I am leading my mindbody through various internal conversation and the outcomes I'm experiencing. I talk about being out of breath and building strength and surety.

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to Move With Deb the podcast, episode 21. So today, I am talking about building belief before evidence. And this can be really for anything. But I'm going to talk about it in regards to movement. And pain.

[00:01:11] So I want to encourage people to stop obsessing and checking for progress. From your brain's point of view, keeping our attention on what we don't want, whether it's a habit, a physical sensation, or a fear, tells the brain and the nervous system that this thing is very important, gimme more of it, track it, make it bigger, louder, or more. Whereas we shift our attention and our belief on the thing that we're wanting, in a way that we can believe, then our brain makes that bigger, louder, more.

[00:01:56]Because the brain is a predictive organ. I said this on this podcast. I'm sure you've heard it in other places, certainly it is the foundational piece of Lisa Feldman Barrett's neuroscience work. The brain works off of predictions and it's not assessing things in real time. And the body is full of sensors. And all of what we perceive is essentially noise. It's just data, sensory data until it's interpreted by the brain. So we tune our systems to what our experiences should be, all subconsciously of course, but with knowledge and practice, we can begin, to practice the perception and meaning-making to get our life, our body, our somatic experience to be more of what we want. And less of what we don't want.

[00:02:59]In his book, Livewired, David Engleman discusses how neural networks decide what sensory information is important and what isn't. So for neuro-plasticity to happen, we need to care. Like the brain needs to care. The brain doesn't actually care about anything. It's like the human who has the brain is the one doing the caring. Whereas the brain is just like nom nom eating the sensory data, spitting out experiences, spitting out whatever it does with the assessment, with the meaning, right.

[00:03:36] It's like the conversation that's happening on the inside of the body, is happening from this brain that, is really only receiving and projecting. And then there's like the, you. I'm sure like philosophy has better words than I do right now for what we decide is important and not important, that's how we train and attune the brain. So neuro-plasticity for the sensory data to be interpreted, and for change to happen, we have to be curious about something. We need possibility. We need to believe and think something is even possible for our brain to say yes, this is something I desire. This is something I believe. This is something I can imagine might possibly be true for me. So belief is an essential component of rewiring neuroplastic pain. Because neuroplastic pain is the brain's interpretation of sensory data, not the true story of the body.

[00:04:55]Maybe I'll say that again.

[00:04:56]Neuroplastic pain is the brain's interpretation of sensory data, not the true story of the body.

[00:05:10]Here's a story about a new client. She tells me that she wakes up every day checking to see if she has pain. Because that will tell her if she's going to have a good day or a bad day. But because she's already onto this fear brain chronic pain business, she also is able to describe all the times when she's not experiencing pain. It is when her attention is elsewhere. Usually on things she enjoys. She went to a ton of doctors. She got lots of testing for her headaches. What the doctors didn't do when they found nothing was to affirm that she was well and safe and nothing was happening in her brain. But instead they filled her imagination with disease processes that might be happening even though they had no evidence for it.

[00:06:04]No one offered her the belief that her attention and fear response to the first headache, which frightened her, created the feedback loop that kept her brain delivering her, the prediction of this sensation.

[00:06:20]This theory of the brain. I know, sounds like a bad knock off of the matrix, but it is also true.

[00:06:28]And a lot goes into the interpretation and amplification of sensory information. Some of the things I discuss with my clients are the human desire for certainty, the equation of certainty with safety. The messaging of productivity of capitalism, the lack of financial safety nets, the lack of reliable health care with a warm and skillful practitioner. Seeing other people around us suffer with similar illnesses or conditions. Family systems messaging around illnesses or weakness or pain.

[00:07:09]But Hey, it's natural to want to feel okay. If not feeling okay, is something we never allow ourselves to do. We create rituals of okayness. Like progress checking, checking on symptoms to see if we're still feeling them. Checking and Googling symptoms. Going for repeated medical exams. There's all kinds of ways that we create reassurance. But that reassurance process is also a part of the sensory data amplification.

[00:07:49]So I've been doing a stairs practice because I want to build strength and ease with going up and down stairs. My left knee has a little bit of an opinion about this. My body likes to throw me a symptom to freak out about and distract me because there's a part of my story that I'm slowly unwiring, in which I don't trust myself to keep me safe. That I overdo things and injure myself.

[00:08:15]Neuroception, which is a word coined by Dr. Stephen Porges describes the body continuously scanning our environment for cues of safety or danger. We aren't usually aware of this process, but we often notice the physiological responses that it causes. Sometimes it's a pain or some kind of vagal nervous system response, fight flight freeze. Or nothing which goes unnoticed. But it's a story that our brain tells us about the experiences that we are having in a way that perpetuates our survival. The brain's job is to manage our body and keep us alive. So, how do we know what's a real danger and what's not? By learning to look for the holes in the story. Using logic, pain science. And self-awareness.

[00:09:11]Sometimes taking the first step in my stair practice feels terrifying, but there's no danger. I can feel the muscle inhibition in my leg due to fear. The fear feels like I'm driving my body with the emergency brake on. But I know I can climb the stairs. I did it this morning. I did it yesterday. But the other day I was walking up the stairs and my brain was saying fear fear. When I stopped and I checked in, I was actually annoyed because I left my house keys in the car and now I had to walk back down and get the keys and come back up again. Now I could take the elevator. But I wanted to challenge my brain. Because physiologically, I know that I am more than capable of climbing the stairs at my pace, twice in a row. There's lots of protests and thoughts my brain wants to offer me. I chose to let them be there and take this action anyway. I could feel myself wanting to stare at the steps. And instead I distracted my brain by shifting my attention to my tongue tapping on the roof of my mouth.

[00:10:27]And voila! I walked up the stairs for this second time with relative ease. Redirecting my fear brain while taking actions I knew I was capable of. And then noticing the way my body changed its motor pattern from stalled to more fluid. That's a part of the bigger bit of evidence I'm creating for my mind body. I create safety in my body with my mind.

[00:10:57]So yesterday I had another fun experience with the stairs experiment. My goal is to get better at going up and down the stairs with more ease. My brain's goal is to protect me by over analyzing my trips up and down the stairs. My nervous system's goal is to protect me from harming myself so it applies the emergency brake on my motor neurons, creating non fluid movement.

[00:11:23] So go body go?

[00:11:27]It all makes sense from a nervous system as threat protection mechanism, point of view.

[00:11:33]Yesterday on my last round, up the stairs, I could hear my brain critiquing that I was out of breath. Implying that there was some kind of mechanical error happening and being out of breath, wasn't a natural or expected circumstance from having walked up three flights of stairs. I even think my pace had slightly increased. So even more reason to be out of breath. So when I got to my door, I just laughed. And said, thank you brain, for your opinion. But I'm doing great. And I'm going to keep at this activity. Nothing is wrong. This is me getting stronger. This is me creating safety with stairs. I felt the fear and I let it flow on through me.

[00:12:23]This morning, I went swimming and I did a bunch of mind games with myself. I did a bunch of hopping around in the water that felt more intense on my quads and my knees when I placed my attention there. And then the same movements I didn't notice the sensations in my quads and my knees when I looked at the trees around me and smiled and really placed my visual attention on the trees. Some deep tree looking. I was using my visual cortex. And smiling, a relaxed smile to indicate to my safety self, that I was happy and relaxed in that moment. I know this is totally unscientific. But it felt different.

[00:13:11]So I decided that I'd walk back up the stairs with a belief plan. It's another thing. I work with my clients on, around chronic pain. Building our belief plan before having evidence of something being true. And it's all about directing the brain's attention, which in turn changes our interpretation of the sensory information being felt by the body. So this is an active neurological process. It's not like an idea. It's an embodied experience from an idea. So that's the difference. It's belief creating the somatic experience that we want. Using the power of the brain.

[00:14:01] So I walked up the stairs with my hands on my hips relaxed and the thought I am hella strong. Playing in a loop in my head. Each time I put my foot on a stair and lifted myself up the stair. I would feel into the activity. But not to check that I was doing it well or accurately. But to feel me lifting my body weight up with a single leg.

[00:14:29] And then I gave a kind of internal roar. And then I'd say to myself, I'm hella strong.

[00:14:39] I didn't say this will help me get strong. I said, I AM hella strong.

[00:14:46]Putting the belief in the now not in the future. Removing the evaluation and progress checking piece. I took away the impulse to compare this movement moment with past movement moments, because in the end I will reap the benefit of the cumulative effects of going up and down the stairs. To build trust in my body I need to be successful now. Not some vague time in the future. Because now is when I'm using these muscles. The future muscles will be used in the future. And then that will be the present, anyway.

[00:15:33]So all of the stairs I'm doing now are a cumulative effect of the stairs I have done. But also my attention and belief. It actually felt great to walk up the stairs in the, I am strong, rather than the I will be strong.

[00:15:51] And I think my movement reflected that. My mood when I got to the top, definitely reflected that. And now I'm not concerned about when it will feel easier.

[00:16:04]So I want to encourage you to stop checking for progress on your activities. Just try this out for a while. Pay attention to the thoughts that are arising and the desires for checking or evaluating. That's just a sneaky trick from your brain to see if you are allowed to have a feeling of accomplishment.

[00:16:28]But you can have any feeling you want to have at any time. There's no feeling police.

[00:16:38]Just like in OCD, recovery, excessive checking teaches the brain to find the dopamine in the relief of the urge to check. Rather than in the accomplishment of the activity. I'm going to say that again. When we feel an urge to check our progress, to check or compare or evaluate. Relieving the urge is what gives us the good feeling. That good feeling reinforces this process to the brain, and gets in the way of doing the activity. It certainly doesn't make us feel more excited about doing the activity. We build the excitement, apparently in the checking and evaluating and judging.

[00:17:32]This is why getting comfortable with discomfort without constantly tracking, checking, and evaluating is essential for building a belief system with our body, that we can do something that we aren't currently able to do.

[00:17:49] Like wire our brains to no pain. Like knowing our day will be amazing and maybe have sucky parts to it. But we aren't asking our brain to scan for a headache to tell us what kind of day we're going to have. We practice getting up every day. And having a day. We allow for urges for checking. Checking our weight, checking our steps, checking our pain. And we don't answer the urges. But we also don't resist them. We create our experience with our attention by believing that we are well, safe, strong and capable. And that the human experience is wobbly. And full of transitory sensory experiences that don't have any other meaning than what we assign them.

[00:18:46]Doesn't mean that life will always be sunshine and roses and unicorns and rainbows. There is no such life that is like that. There are moments of life that are rainbows. And there are moments of life that are giant piles of shit. That is the 360 human experience.

[00:19:11]I wanna bring it back to our lived embodied experience. The internal conversation between our brain and the sensory data that comes into our brain and nervous system is interpreted through all of our perceptions and through meaning. This is a reminder that our embodied experience can be plastic, can be live wired because the brain is a predictive organ.

[00:19:46]Checking for pain is one way that we train the brain to deliver us the repeated persistent neuroplastic pain experience. And then the meaning that we create around the sensory experiences that we're having also inform our embodied experience.

[00:20:09]So learning to invite in new meaning, having belief before evidence, and also getting out of the practice and habit of checking and evaluating will change your embodied experience. Will change the persistent pain that you are having. And at the very least. Will help your system turn the volume down.

[00:20:36] I hope some of this has made sense. I'm going to link below to David Eagelman's book, Livewired, and also Lisa Feldman Barrett. Seven and a half lessons about the brain. I can't recommend that book enough. It will blow your mind. So what sentence or thought or belief do you want to build for your body? Along with building the cumulative effect of the muscle movement. What beliefs do you want to bring? What beliefs do you want to build and hold true for your body?

[00:21:16]Send me a message. Let me know. Hit me up in my Instagram. at @ movewithdeb Or send me an email at paincoachdeb@gmail.com. And let me know. Thank you so much for listening. If you have interest in my eight week pain recovery program. Or want to hop on a curiosity, call with me, please check out my website at debmalkin.com. And book a call. I would love to speak with you. Maybe I will help answer any questions that you have about this live wiring of sensory data process. Thank you.

https://eagleman.com/books/livewired/

https://lisafeldmanbarrett.com/books/seven-and-a-half-lessons-about-the-brain/

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This week I am chatting about Urgency and Urges and the felt sense of those emotions and experiences in the body. The work I do on helping you and me, develop a new relationship with the sensations in our bodies, is to create safety in being able to observe the stories we are telling ourselves about a feeling, thought, circumstance.... And when I say story, I don't mean like a fairy tale. So maybe story isn't a useful word but it's the one I've got right now. Please listen to my client drop out quickly from the 11 years of anxiety that she's been carrying around with her about a life circumstance that she's in. Enjoy!

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Welcome to move with Deb episode 20. Which to me is just wild because I can't believe that I've made a podcast every week for 20 weeks. So good job, Deb. Yay. Celebrating me. And if you've listened to this podcast at all, I talk a lot about the importance of celebrating all wins. So I am celebrating my 20 weeks of making a podcast.

[00:01:19]So last night I had the wildest aha. I was thinking about some work I did with a client about the urgency she was feeling around a particular life circumstance. She described the sensations in her body as crawling out of her skin, wanting to leap into action. Having to do something with intensity and immediacy.

[00:01:42] She described the sensations of her brain not working. She felt like she couldn't think, and she was confused and she didn't know what to do. She was in a lot of emotional overwhelm. And she'd been feeling the same urgency/alarm response for 11 years, about this situation. So she's created a conditioned response for her nervous system to be alarmed. To feel like there is an emergency. To tell herself that it's all or nothing, black or white. On or off. Which is not to say that this circumstance isn't important, impactful, or meaningful.

[00:02:25]If something's going on for 11 years, not every moment is an emergency. There might be moments that are emergencies. Because emergencies happen. But it's important to recognize that everything modulates. But that's the experience that we create in our bodies. Where, if we're responding to everything like an emergency. It will feel like an emergency. What we're not allowing is for the emergency to be an emergency. And then the rest of it, moments that are not emergencies to be not emergencies.

[00:03:12]And it's okay. because oftentimes when we care about something deeply, when we care about, another human being, or a cause, or a situation, the impact and the intensity of a feeling, creates this feeling of urgency. And at the same time we cannot sustain the physiological experience of an emergency all the time.

[00:03:41]Her body mind was living inside it like it was. And the way she cultivated her attention and experience all served to feed this idea. And the more she felt like it was an emergency, the more that her brain looked for reasons why it was urgent. And the more her body felt those sensations and believed that it was true. And so it was true. Except that, what if it's not urgent? So I asked her in our session. What if it's not urgent. Why is it urgent? Now that sounds like an asshole thing to say. Because she had told me that it was urgent. But just because something feels urgent or like an emergency doesn't mean that it is. And that's why I teach the importance of telling ourselves the truth. I noticed that I have a bias for the relief when it come.

[00:04:41]I noticed that I have a bias for the relief that comes when hard times pass. I'm sure. that's like, duh, who wouldn't. I'm now in the habit of asking. What am I making this mean? Whatever THIS is. This week, I've worked with a few people on this idea of the resistance to what is. And it gave me pause. Because that feels so familiar with what I've been through physically and emotionally, lately.

[00:05:10] When I am in the suck. I don't want to be in it so much that my brain feels like it's suddenly working triple time to get me out and is trying to shove a hundred thousand thoughts into a space that only fits 10, which then makes my cognitive powers go offline, and my body feels the impact of the panic, the non-working brain. And then maybe I tell myself a story that my brain doesn't work or that I'm broken. And that it's going to be this way forever. And then I visit the past and I find all the evidence for how this is true. And of course, how it's going to always be true because. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. List giant piles of reasons. And then the overwhelm and the fear compounds.

[00:06:00] But it is based on a faulty premise, that things should be different. When, what they are is what they are in this present moment. Someone is sick. You have a headache. My arm hurts today is Friday.

[00:06:21]When we allow ourselves to tell ourselves the truth of the present moment. Even while desiring it was different, we can then explore all the thoughts we were thinking and all the feelings we are feeling. But we can't access that when we tell ourselves that what is happening right now shouldn't be happening. Because then we make this moment, like a hot potato we can't touch. Or like a dangerous potion that makes true anything we think about. But it is already true in that it is happening. Not that it's your fault due to magical thinking.

[00:07:08] So having my own back this week has looked like. Holding my hand during pain even when I forgot that it's something I knew how to do. And now it looks like telling myself that I'm equally awesome when I'm in pain and struggle, and not only when I've figured it all out. I'm awesome when things are hard and when things are full of ease. I don't make my worthiness conditional on any circumstances.

[00:07:39]So today I received this message from that client who was having all of the urgency. And I'm sharing this with her permission. But these are her words,

[00:07:52] "Deb, by asking me the question why is it urgent? You completely removed a chunk of anxiety from the pit of my stomach. I had been intermittently haphazardly injecting, impending doom/urgency to every thought about this situation. I can't tell you how the thought. It's not that urgent. Had an immediate and sudden impact on the sensation in my whole body."

[00:08:26]And that's the end of the quote. And this is the mind body connection. Our felt senses are absolutely real. And our nervous system is often creating a physiological reaction and experiences due to optional thoughts. Or thoughts that feel true but aren't true.

[00:08:50]Learning to our observe our thoughts and create room for all of our feelings to be felt sounds like it has nothing to do with the sensations in our body of pain or anxiety. But it has everything to do with it.

[00:09:07] We must become safe with ourselves to feel safe. There's a lot of talk about it in somatic work and in trauma therapy about how to create safety with another person. There's beautiful work on the co-regulation of the nervous system and neuroception, and I'm a huge fan. And I think that there's a piece missing in the Instagram level conversations. I'm sure it's there when it's like in deep practice, but I'm talking about what we read about co-regulation and about polyvagal theory and about the nervous system on social media.

[00:09:49]It is our job to become safe in having any feeling in our own bodies. Because our feelings do not come from other people or circumstances but rather our thoughts about them. And the meaning that we are making about the thoughts that we're having or the sensations that we're feeling in our body. And even the meaning that we're making about the feelings themselves.

[00:10:17]I think the main pathology of this culture, at least that we have in the United States is that we are taught that we should be pain-free and happy all the time. Otherwise, there's something wrong with us. That's a hundred percent untrue. That is a lie, told by so many for so many reasons. And if you point a finger anywhere, you'll find a suitable target. From family to capitalism, to patriarchy, to ableism, to healers and helpers or power structures. I'm going to do more podcasts and explore more of these ideas and themes another time because it's a fucking mind trip. And these are the ideas and questions and conversations I have with my clients of why do we think the things we do? Where did these messages come from? What are the thoughts and feelings that we're trying not to feel? Because we think that it means something about us.

[00:11:14]But here's what I want you to understand. Our brain and nervous system are not truth tellers. They're best guessers, lightning speed interpreters, habit formers, energy conservers and benevolent gas lighters. The brain's job is to keep you alive.

[00:11:34]I was working with a client about her panic attacks while walking. She's a fat person. She's having pain and the physiological symptoms of panic when she's going to the store or to a medical appointment. She's telling herself that she can't do it. That it will be hard. That people will look at her body. That other people's opinion of her body matters. That her heavy breathing is a problem.

[00:12:02] In these fear brain moments she's discounting the movement that her body successfully does all day long. She forgets that she can slow her pace, which will make walking with ease more possible. She doesn't realize she's leaving her body to pop into other people's bodies and imagine that they're looking at her and scrutinizing her, but that's really her looking and scrutinizing herself. And then her nervous system is responding to the fear by creating a normal, and appropriate, physiological response to that fear. Pumping adrenaline, narrowing vision, constricting the breath, causing muscle hypertonicity.

[00:12:52]And then when I said, and when you're in this state, you're still working on getting yourself from point A to point B. Like from the car to the store. Or the car to the medical appointment. She described that like driving with the emergency brake on. Which is really brilliant and I love a good analogy. So she's letting me keep that one.

[00:13:18] When we are in a state of panic, and trying to do the thing we want to do, it feels like driving with the emergency brake on. You're still moving forward, but despite yourself. Not only is there a lot of internal force, but there's the messages from the nervous system to the body to stop, which we override. But that's not needed. We don't want our only choices to be driving with our emergency brake on or stopping. We need to find a way to disengage the emergency brake. And that is the nervous system responding to fear.

[00:13:57] It's a hundred percent, a natural physiological response for an animal to stop and feel alerted to something that might be dangerous or fearful. Dogs. Cats animals in the wild and so on. But they aren't spending all of their time in fear alert mode. And if they feel like there's a threat. They'll run.

[00:14:21] Like my client who told herself that what was happening was urgent. She lived in that state for 11 years. And it gave her some super powers. Her attention was sharp. She could see mistakes that other people missed. She felt connected to love and passion. And over time, what was adaptive became maladaptive.

[00:14:46]But in an instant, with this question, I asked her. What if it's not urgent. She felt a downgrade in her anxiety and the symptoms of the story she was telling herself. She's not telling herself that this circumstance isn't important, impactful or meaningful. She's not telling herself that she shouldn't care. Shoulds and shouldn'ts are the emergency brake engagers. Because honestly we do the things we want to anyway. But that's with the sense of forcing ourselves or having to do it avoiding having certain emotions.

[00:15:28]So this brings me back to the wild aha that I had. Urgency and urges are the same word. Okay, so I'm 51 and a half years old and I just figured that one out. When we feel an urge to engage in a distraction action it is because we are feeling this somatic experience of urgency. Those sensations are often unpleasant, heightened, maybe you will call it anxiety or panic. Maybe it's excitement and passion. Something urgent can be intoxicating too. We don't need to label a feeling as good or bad.

[00:16:13]Labeling stuff is one of the least useful activities we can engage in. But often we do things to answer their urge. We either given to it. Or do something to avoid it. Anything other than allow it. And it's only a sensation in our body. We can ask. Why does this feel so urgent? And then listen. Our mind body will tell us. Or journaling, but not to solve it. But to develop the habit of a loving. Internal Conversation. One in which we are creating safety for ourselves by allowing ourselves to be able to have any thought and any feeling.

[00:17:07] We can be safe having the full human experience. Which includes intermittent physical and emotional pain. And also includes equal moments of physical and emotional pleasure, positivity or neutrality.

[00:17:27]So, if any of this resonates with you. If you have any questions about all this stuff about urgency, urges, felt senses, pain, anxiety, sensations in the body, and how they're related to thoughts and feelings, I encourage you to reach out for a curiosity call. Or sign up on my email list and get a free PDF of all the best mind-body pain, recovery resources out there.

[00:17:55]And I'm open for new clients in my eight week pain recovery program called fear brain and chronic pain. Where I will teach you the tools to be your nervous system regulator. So you can thrive in any situation, not just the ones that have trained people who are skilled at co-regulating. I will teach you the new science of pain. And we do one-on-one coaching to explore what you're making any unwanted physical sensation mean about your potential for healing and how to rewire your brain and nervous system to no pain. And when, I mean no pain, I mean, No chronic, lingering, persistent pain. Thank you for listening. And I look forward to sharing with you next week.

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I've been on the struggle bus my dears and my mindbody symptoms have been flaring and freaking me out. It took me a few days to tango with my fear brain and here's my story about it all.

I hope that this helps. Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hi fam, welcome to Move With Deb episode 19. I'm so sorry this has been so late. Dropping on Tuesday when I usually try for Friday or Saturday. And real talk, it has been hard in this body of mine the last few days. My intense stress symptoms that I had last year have revisited me since I've come back from being on a lovely vacation out of town with a friend. So this has included headaches, neck pain, hot flashes, back pain, stomach aches, full body pain and insomnia.

[00:01:29]And I've been in a bit of a struggle trying to remember that I had all these symptoms last year, and then I got tested for a bunch of stuff. And all of that was normal. So my brain really wants to think, Nope, this is an exception. This isn't the same stuff as last year. And so what, that it came on when you got back from being away. Coming back to a place that I don't want to be. Even when I'm like typing those words and saying those words, I can feel the lump in my throat pulse. And if that is not the entire bag of evidence that I need to remind myself that this is my body's stress response to my thoughts and feelings. I don't know what it is.

[00:02:14] I don't want to go into the particulars about my life at the moment. But I'm in a caretaking role. And it's a place of great emotional conflict for me.

[00:02:25] I'm having a hard time balancing my own needs and someone else's needs and it's a work in progress. I'm untangling the subconscious habits and beliefs that I've developed over the years. Putting my own needs second is a common theme of mine and that's a common theme of people with TMS.

[00:02:45] And that conflict is felt in the body. Dr. Sarno's books talk about the threat of an internal conflict to the self and how the body responds to that threat through the development of symptoms in the body.

[00:02:59]Our embodied experiences are not separate from our thoughts or our emotions. So just like when we're nervous before public speaking, we might get butterflies in our tummy. Or when we see someone we like across a room and they make eye contact, we might blush. Our body is the modern dance interpreter of our internal conversation.

[00:03:24] So I've been witnessing my harsh internal critic and my avoidant self duking it out lately. My arm pain after my tattoo brought me back to some intense fear about my health. And that calmed down. But it was a rough go.

[00:03:43]Then when I was away, I did some walking and gentle hiking with a friend for a few days, three days in a row. It felt amazing to walk after healing from my bad ankle sprain. The first day of a walk was a half mile to the store and back at a leisurely pace. Midway there, I could feel my left leg was having some issues. Like it was having a hard time finding a walking rhythm.

[00:04:12]And I could feel my inner freak out, wanting to emerge. I knew that there was nothing wrong. I had been walking just fine before. But just shorter distances. So I told him my leg, hey, you. I see that you're having a hard time. That's okay. You know that you're fine. Right? But I got you. I'm right here with you. You can relax. I promise that I will not try to force you and push through anything.

[00:04:46] And a block later, my leg relaxed and the rest of the walk was easy. I focused on relaxing any tension I was carrying due to fear. I took some slow, deep breaths. And the next day we had a great hike that had some ground variation and elevation, and the total distance was a mile a half, maybe two miles. And we opted for the loop. And the second half of that loop coming back had stairs. And they're those like grassy, rocky, stairs that are created with a piece of wood. And so they're all different sizes. They're not uniform stairs. And I'm short. And I had no hiking poles. So, that's a lot of like, best guesses, my brain had to work really hard to be like, okay, how are we getting down this stair safely? Looking down the hill and saying, oh, a whole bunch more stairs, looking up the hill and seeing, oh, well these are all the stairs that we came down. Knowing that I could turn around and make a different choice, but also I could just keep going.

[00:05:55] There was definitely some fear, and lots and lots of glute and quad intensity. When we were done, it felt awesome to do that. And later that day and the next day, my legs were ridiculously sore. Like more sore than I had been in a long time. And the following day we did a gentle creek side nature walk that was maybe three miles. It was pretty easy. There were a few spots where you had to like walk across a creek, but we just took it slow. We stopped when we needed to stop or when we wanted to stop, we looked at the water. It was such a beautiful day. And while I was walking all felt well and wonderful. I could feel that my legs had worked. But it did not feel distressing. But at the times, that I wasn't walking, like when we got back to the cabin, when it was time to transition from a chair or get up from a bed, my legs were screaming at me.

[00:07:00]It only lasted a few days. Actually three days later, we were staying on the third floor of an Airbnb that had no elevator and I could go up and down the stairs. But while I was hurting, I could tell that my thinking rational brain didn't want to believe that my muscle soreness was normal. I would comfort myself and tell myself that it was normal and then a new doubt would pop up.

[00:07:29]I had no sense of time. The pain felt endless at times when it was only a day or two. And that fear and hypervigilance is not my friend. It feels like a friend, like a skill created to keep me safe from harm. But in fact it was really me telling my own nervous system to keep ringing the bell because this toast that I was toasting was really a giant fire. I don't trust myself. It doesn't matter how many times I can go through this, watching symptoms arise and disappear. I can have absolutely normal physiological responses like muscle soreness. And I can hear my brain offer to me. Well, it must be because you're fat. You have lipedema. Your body is different.

[00:08:20]In those moments, I forget how to lean in to neutral or pleasant sensations. How to remember that I've been through all of this before. And I have all the proof I need that this is TMS. Especially because the onset directly coincided with fixation, stress and fear.

[00:08:41]I teach my clients to build their belief bank. Mine is overflowing. And when fear shows up, my brain goes offline a little bit. I could feel myself wanting to avoid the thought, "this is my fault." What if it's my fault? If these symptoms are a physiological experience of my thoughts and fears, then it's my fault, right?

[00:09:05] But that's not how it works. We have a body. And a mind. And they're the same thing. They work in concert. So to not have a physiological embodied experience, I would need to not be human. It's just that my brain has learned some habits and patterns and it can take time to rewire them. The fear of my pain being my fault is directly traced back to all the anti-fat messaging I experienced through my lifetime. So many shame memories of moving slower than others. Getting stuck in a pool at club med, cause there were no stairs in the pool. Like. WTF. Not fitting into seats on airplanes or theaters and more. So many doctor visits that have been terrible, full of fat shaming and negative predictions about my early demise.

[00:09:59]Soon, I'm going to do a series of podcasts on the nocebo effects of weight stigma, and the anti-fat messaging. So keep your eye out for that. And, I know in my body, the quiet, fearful drum beat of "you did this to yourself, this is your fault". I can feel it arise and I can't get away fast enough from that thought. But avoiding it is only increasing the power of the suppression of the emotion and creating a louder alarm.

[00:10:31]So finally yesterday morning, I pulled out my journal. I use a rocket book so I can write and erase with ease and expressive writing is one of the best mind body tools. I do a version I call a thought dump. It's like Nicole Sachs's Journal Speak and my coaching tradition practice of doing a thought download. A thought dump is the biological version of a getting out old metabolized waste from the body. I'm getting it out of my brain.

[00:11:02] Avoiding these thoughts only creates more unwellness. The goal isn't to do anything other than see what is pinging around in my head. I just poop it all out onto the page and then erase it. Maybe I'll look to see if there's a theme that I want to explore more deeply in my self coaching practice. Often there's a single thought that's helpful to work through.

[00:11:27]But the long narrative. That's not important. What happened in the past? That's not important. What's important is to teach my brain and nervous system, that having unpleasant sentences and feelings is safe. I write out all the gunk, knowing that it's human to have gunk inside of us that needs getting out.

[00:11:48] I was able to admit to myself, my current resistance and just let me know that it's okay to feel that way. It's okay to feel conflicted. Ambivalent. And frustrated. Making it safe to have any thought and feeling is an important process of healing the body mind, symptom creation and amplification.

[00:12:09]Just because we have a thought doesn't mean, we need to believe it or do anything other than notice that you're having it. Here's a great Susan David quote, she's the author of Emotional Agility. "Your thoughts are not inevitable outcomes or pronouncements of the truth."

[00:12:27]As Mark Freeman, my beloved mental health educator and author of You Are Not A Rock would probably say "they're unicorn farts". I have been scared to do this podcast. Even writing it out has been so helpful. I am human. I feel things just like you. Feeling things is what body minds do.

[00:12:51]If any of this resonates with you, I encourage you to reach out for curiosity call. Or sign up on my email list and get a free PDF of all the best mind body pain recovery resources out there. And I'm open for new clients in my eight week pain recovery program, called Fear Brain and Chronic Pain where I teach you the new science of pain. We do one-on-one coaching to explore what you're making any unwanted physical sensation mean about your potential for healing and how to rewire the brain and nervous system to no pain.

[00:13:25]I want to give you an update. I went to bed last night. Not even early. But I went to bed leaning into the belief that my brain is just working through some fear. And that I'm safe and that I'm okay. And then I know how to take care of myself. I had a good night's sleep. I did not have pain all night. I did not have hot flashes all night. And I woke up feeling rested and well. Thank you body. Thank you brain. Thank you listeners. for listening to what happens when hard times happen.

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So in coaching we say that we don't know what's best for our clients. But I realized that I actually feel like I've been lying to you. Because I do think I know what's best. I think it would be best for you to learn the skill of developing curious awareness of your thoughts.

That's my confession. It's my hard sell. I think that it's the key to unlocking our conditioned survival responses of pain, emotional overwhelm, trauma nervous system reactivity and help you create a nervous system friendly life that will allow you to move away from avoidance and towards the life you want to live.

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello, welcome to Move With Deb. This is episode number 18. So I know I often say in my client sessions that I don't have an agenda for you, or I don't know what you should do about your body, your pain or your life. But confession. This is a lie. Here's the truth. I want you to learn how to have what I'm calling an inner conversation.

[00:01:17] What's an inner conversation? It is the key to creating a nervous system friendly life. Our nervous system and our brain run the body. I'm going to include a link to an article from very well mind MD that explains a simple overview of the nervous system. So there's the central nervous system includes the brain and the spinal cord.

[00:01:41] While the peripheral nervous system includes all of the nerves that branch out from the brain and the spinal cord, extend to the other parts of the body, including the muscles and the organs. Each part of the system plays a vital role in how information is communicated through the body. The autonomic nervous system plays an important role in the human body controlling many of the body's automatic processes.

[00:02:07] This system also helps prepare the body to cope with stress and threats, as well as returning the body to a rested state afterwards. Learning more about this part of the nervous system can give you a better understanding of the processes that underlie many human behaviors and responses.

[00:02:27]One of the most challenging parts of being human is that we have thoughts. Which we believe. Because they are in the inside of our head. So because we believe that they originate inside of our body mind that they must be true. And if it is a thought that causes us particular distress, we take lots of actions to avoid thinking it. Because when we have a thought, we have a corresponding feeling in our body. That feeling in our body is broken down into the following: arousal and valence. And emotion is on a scale from low to high arousal. An emotion is on a scale from unpleasant to pleasant valence.

[00:03:13]A high arousal pleasant emotion might be joy, exuberance, elation, passion. High arousal, unpleasant emotion might be anger, despair, fury, shame. So when we have a thought and then a feeling that creates an unpleasant sensation in our body, we usually do not enjoy that. And we will do anything to avoid that feeling again.

[00:03:44] Our nervous system is designed to protect us from danger. And we're essentially teaching our protection system that these thoughts are very real. And that they're dangerous to feel. But they don't have to be. This is where the hard sell comes in. And it's not that I want you to believe me. When I tell you that these are optional thoughts. Because you don't.

[00:04:10] I want you to begin to observe the relationship between a thought and a feeling. If you want to change your nervous system reactivity, you can. By learning to develop a robust but relaxed watcher. When we interrupt the automatic reaction of the nervous system, which is essentially the body. We can change the physiological response to a thought. Having a human brain means we will always have thoughts. Apparently we have 60 to 80,000 of them a day. And you know what, you're not doing, paying attention to all of them. We are evolutionarily wired, and also we keep wiring ourselves to pay attention to the negative ones.

[00:05:00] A thought told repeatedly becomes a belief. Now beliefs are not good or bad, they can be helpful or unhelpful for you in your life. You get to decide. But if you aren't allowing yourself to slow it all down and observe your thoughts with a friendly curiosity. You cannot decide if you even want to keep that belief.

[00:05:26]Victor Emil Frankel was an Austrian neurologist, psychiatrist, philosopher, author, and Holocaust survivor. He wrote a book called Man's Search For Meaning. He was the founder of logotherapy, a school of psychotherapy, which describes the search for life meaning as the central human motivational force. So he said "Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom."

[00:05:59]So this process, I'm not calling mindfulness because it can be about non-reaction, but I find a lot of times people struggle a lot in meditation practices because they spend a lot of time in resistance, overwhelm and suppression. Because they've been told that meditation will help get them calm. So they're seeking the peace of meditation. And instead, what they're getting is a lot of monkey mind, and that just feels like shit. And then people judge themselves that they're doing it wrong, and then it reinforces their story that they're broken and they're not doing it right. And so on and so on. And for some people that means it's more painful.

[00:06:36]Curious awareness can track that story and begin to separate the circumstance, meditation. The thought, " I'm doing this wrong", which could be in response to a physical sensation or looking at your meditation neighbor. Right? So if you're sitting and meditating and you have a cramp, you might think the thought "I'm doing this wrong".

[00:06:57] Or if you're looking at your neighbor, who's the meditator and your thought is, Oh my God, they're doing this so much better than I am, "I'm doing this wrong". Right? Then the emotion comes up from that thought, shame. With the subsequent physiological sensation of that emotion, a hot face, a sinking sensation into your stomach, the desire to hide or run away.

[00:07:20] And that might lead to the action of leaving the room physically or mentally. It might create the desire to turn your attention away from the meditation and let your mind wander. And so the result is that you are doing meditation wrong. But only because of the thought and feeling that you had, which created those actions. From this place, we see that it is not the meditation that created the thought I'm doing this wrong, and the physiological sensation of that thought. The meditation just is meditation. Because your neighbor is thinking a different thought. Having a different feeling. Having a different physiological experience. So in this example, meditation itself, is a neutral circumstance.

[00:08:10]Becoming the curious aware watcher helps you break this down. Curious awareness does not care if you're doing meditation right or wrong, because any judgment can be witnessed. When we can witness our shame with relaxation , self love and compassion our nervous system will not react to that feeling like a threat triggering the individual self protection system to kick on. Whether that's falling in a dorsal freeze or in a fight flight overwhelm.

[00:08:41]So the inner conversation asks, what am I making this mean? And then we listen. And it doesn't get swept away into, is this true? Is this not true? The inner conversation asks, what do I need right now? But it doesn't make having a feeling a problem that needs to be solved regardless of whether it's a pleasant or an unpleasant emotion, because all life is 50 50. All emotions are welcome, transitory and normal.

[00:09:10]I want to highlight that this work is a brain training exercise. We are adapting your nervous system to allow more and more of the thoughts in your head and the sensations in your body to fly under the radar of your threat detector, expanding your window of tolerance, expanding your nervous system resiliency and helping your body move through its vagal states with more ease, allowing you to find and return home to ventral vagal more quickly.

[00:09:39]Learning to listen to our body and tend to our feeling selves can allow us to also tend to our physical selves better when we learn to rest, when we are tired without any resistance or reactivity. We can nourish ourselves with food without making eating mean we are good or bad or right or wrong. We can learn that we do not need to agree with others when they share with us beliefs that we don't agree with, but we don't have to fight or flee and have the subsequent nervous system responses when we disagree.

[00:10:12]We can develop this inner conversation directly with our pain. Ask our hurt knee. What's up? What do you need right now? See what it has to say back. If you remember my pain recovery story, my knee told me that it didn't trust that I could take care of myself because I was always judging and evaluating and failing myself. What it most wanted for me was to tell it that it was safe and that I could take care of me.

[00:10:40]One way to build this habit of curious awareness or the rock star practice I call noticing, is to celebrate it. Because when we celebrate something, we build a joyful neurochemical conditioned response, which when practiced signals to the brain to keep doing it. And then we get better at it. In my coaching sessions with my clients, I do what I call holding up the Mirror of Wins. When I went to therapy, my therapist worked really hard to try to get me to like myself. And it was a frustrating experience because I didn't know how, and I thought my therapists were great, but I just couldn't do what they were asking me to do. In my work, I never not show you how your change in thinking or perception changes your physical sensations and emotional allowance.

[00:11:30]So just this week alone, I had to don my Captain Obvious Cape with my clients and hold up the Mirror of Wins because their self-narrative glossed over the massive embodied learning successes that they had, which is totally normal. Right. Our brain is only, looking for danger. It just kind of misses a lot of stuff. Our brains, miss lots of things all the time. That's a good thing. Because we can't possibly process all of the information that comes into our perception. So we have to choose. We have to look for what we're not looking for.

[00:12:05] So while I like a moment for my clients to like themselves more, that's not the point. So the point is to highlight the tiniest shifts in neuroplasticity. The smallest wins in the decrease of nervous system, trauma response activation. The win of practicing an overwhelm neutralizing thought in real time, as one is doing something physically challenging and reporting back that your body was relaxed and that you didn't have difficulty breathing.

[00:12:37] So the other day, I had a client who had to take a month break in our working together due to an unexpected move. They had completely changed their self-concept and back pain after first two sessions. So they went from I'm in so much pain, I can't imagine walking to the 7/11 down the street to I've just handled an intense move, house hunting, visiting multiple houses, climbing all of the stairs and dealing with a missing pet.

[00:13:04]We figured out that they probably walked that distance to the 7/11 at least eight times over under considerable stress. And they're sore, as anybody would be. And they're not believing that their body is broken and unfixable, which was their fear when we first met. And we didn't do any workouts. We didn't do any medical treatment.

[00:13:27]All they did was learn new ideas about, pain, the body's interpretation of sensation, what it means for our physiological experience. And they applied these new ideas. So in our coaching call, I held up the mirror and reflected back to them why it worked, how they created that new prediction of no pain for the brain.

[00:13:49]And then we celebrate. Because celebrating cements neuroplasticity. And neuroplasticity is a fun word for learning. So learning is a thing that all brains do when we create the conditions for learning, which means welcoming discomfort, or at least cultivating the willingness rather than reinforcing avoidance patterns.

[00:14:10] Creating the feeling of safety comes when we create this relaxed watcher. Our lazy detective honing the skill of noticing without judging. What thoughts and feelings are coming up for you when you hear me say these words? That is the inner conversation. Keep practicing.

[00:14:28]If anything I say here, sparks your curiosity and you'd like to know more about working with me about how you can rewire your pain experience please check out my website at debmalkin.com. Or my Instagram, @movewithdeb where I shared lots of tips and tricks and insights and experiences. And you can see how you can book a curiosity call with me.

[00:14:51] And I will happily explain to you what my current offering of an eight week pain recovery program looks like and how you can sign up with me. Thanks so much. I'll talk to you soon.

https://www.verywellmind.com/the-nervous-and-endocrine-systems-2794894

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-peripheral-nervous-system-2795465

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-the-autonomic-nervous-system-2794823

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-happens-when-you-think-4688619

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Today's podcast I discuss my process of falling back into old reassurance rumination compulsions while experiencing unexpected pain after getting a tattoo cover-up and I share the concept of 50/50.

I discuss the way I turned it all around with the simple question, "What Am I Making My Pain Mean?". And applied some strategies to side step the need for constant checking and gained further helpful self awareness.

I read some part of an article on Reassurance and when it becomes a compulsion. - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-sticky-mind/201912/when-reassurance-seeking-becomes-compulsive

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to Move With Deb episode number 17. This one I'm calling, my tattoo is 50/50. I'm going to talk a little bit about what this experience has been this last week, because I tell you it's like, I never learned anything about pain, rumination, the mind, distress tolerance or anything.

[00:01:19] So if you think that you are not doing it right, you should not have anything to worry about. This is my invitation to be a student, to get curious, because my brain took me for a wild ride in this post tattoo experience. So I want to share a little bit of that, and explain, this process of reassurance seeking and how it's actually not always the most helpful behavior.

[00:01:54] I got a tattoo, which was a coverup last Thursday, and this is now June 4th. So it was the end of may, and I got a cover up of an old tattoo and it had a lot of meaning, and I was very excited to find this artist. And the work itself was beautiful. The experience of getting the tattoo was fun. And it was four and a half hours of intense tattooing on my forearm with lots of shading and lots of colors.

[00:02:28]And they're like, well, that's going to hurt. I was like, sure, it's going to hurt. Of course, like that was a lot of work. And now I have this open wound and I've had maybe 10 tattoos over my lifetime. So I'm pretty familiar with the tattoo healing process. But I also think it's a little bit like giving birth maybe? People tend to have more than one baby, but I'm pretty sure that when you're getting pregnant and like, thinking about having a baby, you're not also spending all your time thinking about the physical experience of having the baby or post having the baby.

[00:03:06] You're spending a lot of time thinking about, the artwork, how you're going to think and feel about having this new tattoo and having this change and maybe what the pain or the experience of the tattoo will be like. I did not spend that much time thinking about what the healing process will look like or feel like. I had what I would consider an unusual amount of pain. And that is a judgment value. I had more pain than I ever had had in a tattoo healing process. My arm was very swollen and warm. My hand was swollen. It was very uncomfortable, and I had a lot of intense, sharp nervy, radiating pain.

[00:03:50] My brain just was like on high alert. It was just ready to go from like zero to 60. If I could have actually told myself and believed that maybe my arm would fall off, I would have believed that. I wanted to just think the worst, every time I would have some pain. I was kind of like watching myself, but the watcher of myself, what I call the lazy detective, clearly must've been either overtaken by this reassurance need and fear brain, or maybe it was like out to lunch and like having a smoke break .

[00:04:33] This pain had me staying up all night, reading obsessively about tattoo healing. Every time I felt pain, my brain immediately wanted to believe that something was wrong, that I did something wrong, that my tattoo artist did something wrong. That someone was to blame. That something is amiss. Uh, that this nerve pain, is going to turn into CRPS, that I will literally have this pain forever and ever. I will have this pain for the rest of my life. And then that pain will be unbearable. That was pretty much my mind, and then the nervous system response, right? Lots of activation, lots of fear, alarm, worry sensations, which also let's be real turns up the volume of the intensity of the pain.

[00:05:31] So my brain was very fixated on the pain. Very fixated anytime it hurt. It of course did not really notice when it wasn't hurting. And I believed that something was wrong. What I finally noticed, and this was maybe Sunday. So if I got my tattoo on Thursday, I gave it like two days to like, feel terrible, but I really had expected it to feel better. Not a hundred percent, but to feel better, to have a trajectory. This tattoo violated my expectations of what the sensations were in my body. My brain immediately just grabbed onto that and ran with it. So all of this fear that I felt in my body, I needed to get away from, very quickly. And I thought that researching things would actually make me feel better and give me the answers that I was looking for.

[00:06:35]Finally on Sunday, I recognized what I was doing. And I said to myself, what am I making this pain mean? That just kinda stopped everything. I had not asked myself that question because I just assumed that the pain itself had some kind of meaning and because it was pain and uncomfortable that the meaning was something bad.

[00:07:03]So one of the thoughts I recognized was I am making this pain mean that I will be in pain for the rest of my life. I need to have a pain-free experience to prove to myself that I understand pain and I am good at my job. I also made this pain mean that I had made a mistake getting this cover up and that it was an unrealistic desire to have. That I should not have chosen to cover up my old tattoo and that I could not get what I wanted from this artist or from this experience.

[00:07:42]Then once I noticed that that was all happening, I said, what if this is what healing looks and feels like? I did have an injury, four and a half hours of tattoo needles and a substance being injected into my skin does mean that there will be a physiological response to that experience.

[00:08:08]I was able to take all of the knowledge that I did get from these websites and create a schema about how to decide whether or not something is wrong with my tattoo healing process. I decided that I was going to reach out to my doctor and I explained my symptoms and I sent photos.

[00:08:31]I was going to trust that it was not infected because I did not have any fever and there was no unusual discharge. I bought a thermometer so I could have an independent verification of my temperature.

[00:08:44]I committed to washing the tattoo with antibacterial soap more frequently, and I switched to a different topical cream.

[00:08:52]I did a little bit of icing to bring down the swelling. And I did decided that my body was taking care of itself. Swelling and inflammation is a part of the healing process.

[00:09:04]I committed to believing that this pain was not an indication of anything being wrong or a mistake. And that it is transitory and it will fade as my healing continued.

[00:09:15]And I committed to healing practices, like getting more rest, using my arm less, better hydration, relaxing my worry mind.

[00:09:25] I knew that if something changed that I had many options, including going to urgent care or reaching back out to my doctor to get a prescription. My doctor had also reflected back to me that they thought it was just the intensity of the tattoo time and not an infection.

[00:09:46] I decided that I was going to be gentle with myself as I was feeling a high level of pain and discomfort . That the pain and the discomfort were not problems to be solved. But just sensations to be felt, to care for myself. I took some anti-inflammatory pain medication and I just took care of the me who was feeling pain, but also took care of the me who was feeling fear. I decided that feeling fear was also not a problem.

[00:10:21]I looked at my tattoo during the day with a smile. And I said to myself, this is what healing looks like. And I reflected that on week three after my sprained ankle, that my ankle was feeling much better. And while I don't feel a hundred percent healed, this tells me that healing is something that my body is capable of. And reflecting that with my ankle outside of the first the first 24 hour period of pain and fear that I also decided that this is going to be a healing process, it was going to take six to eight weeks to heal and that whatever arose in that situation, unless it was really outside of the scope of what I was going to be expecting, that it was just part of healing. And I did not have any drama after that, about my ankle. I didn't even notice that it stopped hurting until I was like, oh, wait, I think that my ankle doesn't hurt. Like I don't need this compression sleeve right now. And even after week four, I started gingerly let's see what it feels like to go down the stairs. So was an interesting process to be like, yeah, I did that over there with my ankle. What am I making this pain mean in my tattoo? The pain was, was very intense. But I also understood that my fear and panic was turning my focus and my volume up on the pain. I was teaching my brain that this pain was very important to pay attention to that there was some kind, kind of problem. Subsequently think after day seven, pain has really changed. The tissue has changed. The swelling has gone down. Now what I would think of as like quote unquote, normal tattoo healing is happening. And ironically, I am noticing that I am. I'm also still in this process. Um, being a little fixated on the healing. Now I keep catching myself looking at my tattoo and this might be gross, so I apologize, but if you've ever healed a tattoo, you notice that you just kind of end up leaving little bits and pieces of yourself all over the place because the tissue heals and pushes up the extra ink in a scab. It's like having scales. I'm molting. So I keep noticing that I keep looking at my skin and evaluating it, but also kind of looking for the pieces of the flaky skin that are ready to be released from my body and wanting to help them along, wanting to get to the point, which I don't have any more scabs of the tattoo that are coming off of me. And I'm recognizing that this is still part of that same experience. So I'm like, what am I making this mean? What am I not willing to allow this process of healing take its time.

[00:13:46] I noticed that I want to be at the point after the healing. I'm anxious and ready to be in the post healing phase. And that, that would tell me that this process went well. Also healing maybe is boring. It's certainly uncomfortable. But I want to be on the other side so I can know that it's all okay. So I am literally pushing my skin now, potentially creating damage, potentially creating places where that scab wasn't really ready to be released from my body, so I can know that later I can think that it's okay.

[00:14:26] What I'm not doing is letting the skin do its skin thing. And when the skin underneath it is healed that scab will just naturally come off during the washing process. That's when it's time for it to leave my body. So what I'm learning is that I want to know that I'm okay. And my wanting this reassurance is actually creating the conditions of my discomfort. It's increasing my discomfort. I'm not getting the reassurance that I'm looking for. None of this is learning how to allow healing to have its own timeframe.

[00:15:06]And what is reassurance seeking? I identify as somebody with OCD, with a rumination habit and some of it is this reassurance rumination. I have always traditionally been a person who loves to research things and I got that from my mother. There's upsides to it, but then there's the downside to it.

[00:15:28]What is that line when it goes from seeking reassurance to reassurance being, a kind of part of the problem? I found this article from Psychology Today that I thought was great. It says when reassurance seeking becomes compulsive. It's written by Martin Saif and Sally Winston, and I guess their blog is called Living With A Sticky Mind.

[00:15:51]It says, avoid the reassurance, trap and tame your inner reassurance junkie. It's natural to seek some reassurance, when confronted with uncertainty. We want some feedback that our solution or our thoughts are reasonable, rational, or otherwise good enough, or that we aren't missing something obvious. Reassurance can help to calm a doubt, allay a worry, solidify a plan of action or guide a decision.

[00:16:17] However, people with sticky minds, I'm raising my hand here, sometimes get caught up in what we call reassurance traps, unable to accept uncertainty in some particular context. This can be the form of endless internet research, repetitive checking behaviors, and eventually alienating friends and family with relentless reassurance seeking conversations.

[00:16:42]They may try to cope with doubts through self-talk, but they become trapped in constant looping internal debates in what ifs and rational responses, alternate and never stop. Being stuck in reassurance seeking can lead to paralysis in decision-making, haunting worries about making a mistake or causing harm, insecurity and self doubt. It is a common belief that analyzing why you become stuck will help you become unstuck. But there is little evidence that this works. In fact, trying to solve too much thinking with even more thinking creates more internal debate and more elaborate loops.

[00:17:26] Freeing oneself from the trap of unproductive reassurance requires learning to tolerate uncertainty by interrupting the factors that initiate and maintain the process. There are three processes that make uncertainty feels so intolerable. Anxious thinking, which distorts risk assessment, making things feel more dangerous than they are.

[00:17:51] Paradoxical effort makes attempts to control anxiety and eliminate uncertainty, work backwards. And negative reinforcement, the effect of temporary relief drives the cycle. Seeking reassurance may seem like a way to find new facts, but doubts that return relentlessly reveal something interesting. Certainty is a feeling. And not a fact. If you think about it, no one can be absolutely sure about anything.

[00:18:29] So I'm going to leave that here. I'm going to post a link to the article. One of the things that I have worked with that I've gotten from my coach training is the idea that things are 50/50. This tattoo is 50/50. Getting the tattoo is 50/50. The healing process is 50/50. I used this idea when I was buying a car. And I think I mentioned this in a previous podcast, but I had noticed, and we celebrate noticing, that I was engaging in these reassurance and research seeking behaviors, obsessively with shopping for a car. It was a place that I went to when I was feeling discomfort. That discomfort would trigger my looking at cars. There's nothing wrong with doing research. There's nothing wrong with finding out what you want. But what I was doing was linking this sensation of discomfort and it wasn't discomfort about buying a car, usually it was discomfort about doing my podcast, doing some work in my business, personal relationships. So the research for the car was like the remedy for the discomfort. Recognizing that, I decided that when I bought my car, I wanted to break this habit. And that I would allow the discomfort of thinking that maybe I made the wrong decision.

[00:20:00]And then I would just buy the car that I wanted. And coach myself through that practice and applying this idea that this car is 50/50 really helped. Cause I did not need the car buying experience, I didn't need the car itself to be perfect. I just need to say this is the car I'm buying. And then later, after I have bought the car and owned the car, I could also decide that it's not the car that I want, that I would like a different car.

[00:20:30] And then I would take a different set of actions at that point. But I didn't need the reassurance that I was making the right decision happen before I bought the car and continued those reassurance seeking behaviors after I bought the car. I was able to buy a car and never look at a car listing again. Which was a really new behavior for me. It was a tremendous breakthrough. I got rid of all the car buying apps. The car that I bought was actually the first car that I saw. It fit all the parameters of everything I wanted. And I said, well, I guess this is the car I'm buying.

[00:21:11] And then my brain wanted to offer me the thought, well, it can't be this easy. And I said, why not let it be easy. And then I let it be easy. And even on the first day of owning my car, when I had a flat tire, there was a nail in the car. I also just said, well, this is part of the 50/50, and then just dealt with it.

[00:21:32]I didn't make it mean anything about my car buying, my driving, the decisions that I had made. Who I am. Decisions I've made in the past. Decisions I will make in the future. Cars, I will own in the future. Right. I just was like, this car is 50/50, flat tires happen, nails get into tires. And I was just able to deal with it and cope with it. I have a lot of grace for myself. I didn't have to feel excited about it, but it wasn't a catastrophe. So in an ideal world, I would have been able to apply all of these brilliant lessons to this tattoo healing process, but that didn't happen and that's okay.

[00:22:19]What I am learning about neuroplasticity is also that learning happens in the wobble. Learning happens when we have the need for the learning. Learning happens when the need for learning and change and growth is happening to the system. It's kind of a fallacy that we can know something or have learned something in advance of having that need.

[00:22:49] So this pain experience built upon all of these smaller experiences. But being in this much pain and then watching, the habits of my brain and then noticing watching, and then deciding on purpose, different actions I wanted to take and watching that whole experience play through my nervous system was the greatest teacher. I really was able to look at and feel in my body, what it is like to be with myself as I am uncomfortable, uncertain, in pain, in distress. I was able to call up this self-compassion that I talk about and teach all the time. And I was able to call that up and apply that to myself. Not because I did it perfectly, but because I did it in the wobble. In that moment of not doing it, then learning. Noticing, what am I making this pain mean?

[00:23:51] That thought didn't occur to me for the first four days of this pain experience. And then it did. So I'm celebrating that this thought that is so helpful showed up. Now the next time I think it's just going to be there. I'm really trusting that I learned, what am I making this mean? Is such a powerful insight tool for me.

[00:24:17]So that embodied aha, that awareness of the relationship between asking myself that question and having the ability to listen and witness my own answers without avoidance, without shame or judgment and with a lot of self-compassion. I practiced all of that. And I only practiced it because I was in this pain. And I only practiced it because my brain took me for a ride.

[00:24:52] So thank you brain. Thank you pain. Thank you tattoo. Thank you learning. Thank you neuro-plasticity. Thank you for discomfort. And thank you for the full human experience, which is 50/50.

[00:25:10] Thank you for listening to this week's Move With Deb. If you are curious about how to get more familiar with these noticing practices. If you want to learn to turn down the volume on your pain, you want to learn to rewire your fear brain, then hop on a curiosity call. You can find that at my website, debmalkin.com or through my Instagram at @movewithdeb. I look forward to sharing more insights, experiences, tips, and tricks with you next week.

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Today's Podcast is all about learning to allow any feeling or sensation by cultivating your curiosity through asking the question, "What Am I Making This Mean?"

I take you with me to the beach, then exploring some back pain and my tattoo and how I use this process with my clients.

You're even invited to a Being Human Party, along with all our feelings and see what happens when we try to keep Fear out.

Enjoy!

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hello and welcome to Move With Deb episode number 16. I'm calling today's lesson. What am I making this mean? I was walking on the beach, the other day, and it was a long way back from where I had started. One of the things I was noticing, was that it was reminding me of times of shame of walking on the beach, being hard. And then my brain was like, remember that time? That you couldn't get out of the pool at club med. Or remember that time in Cape Cod that walking on the beach was really hard, and you had a lot of negative self talk.

[00:01:36] And I could feel this shame storm wanting to come on as I was taking a walk on the beach. And so what I noticed was, I could notice and tell that my brain wanted to take me out of my experience, thinking about other times where I had taken a walk on the beach. Uh, and of course my brain really wanted to tell me. That, you know, something maybe bad was going to happen, maybe something negative. It was reminding me of times when walking on the beach was difficult. And in that moment walking on the beach was not difficult.

[00:02:22] But I had an experience when I decided I was going to turn around and walk back. And the distance felt very far. Like the visual experience of looking back to where I had walked from created this little sensation of fear. And then the fear, my brain was like, oh yeah, you know, here's other times, where we have felt fear, or some kind of unpleasant, emotion while at the beach.

[00:02:58] It was almost like going to a card catalog at the library and being like fear beach. And then my brain was like, yes, here's the memories like totally fears and beach they go together, sand (funny sound). So I could watch all of this happening. And I was like, Hey. I'm here. The beach and the water are here. And yeah, maybe sand is an asshole. And, but also I can have my own back, no matter what. I can take a break when I need it. I can take, as long as I want to walk back to my car. And if I'm sore tomorrow I can make that not mean anything bad about me. And I can recognize that my brain is doing my brain thing. And it's my job to choose where I place my attention.

[00:03:59] And so, placing it back on the ocean waves, the light glistening on the water, and my open heart, and exquisite love for myself is where I can choose to place my attention. And then in the moment, I would be doing something that I was enjoying. And then my brain, also associates sand with these tough moments. But it's not like the sand created my feelings. Or that the ocean creates my feelings or experience. Right. It's the question of what am I making this mean?

[00:04:47] So when I work with my clients around fear, I asked them to do this practice of noticing with curiosity. One of the things that I teach is to celebrate noticing. And I may have mentioned that probably more than once on this podcast. So the goal is to notice any sensation in the body, or the emotions, even noticing fear. We want to notice with a sense of curiosity rather than avoidance.

[00:05:24] So in pain recovery work, we talk about moving away from fear. And giving the body messages of safety. But it's really hard to know how to do that. Developing a practice of talking, listening, witnessing the relationship between the words our brains say to us and the feelings and sensations. In this process are all the answers we need to know why something feels the way it feels.

[00:05:59] If we feel something and we move into avoidance, or we buffer with other activities, or we're not letting ourselves feel a feeling, or we use distraction actions, we can notice that habit. And ask what am I making this pain or feeling or experience mean? If a should thought comes up in there. Just know that should thoughts are judgment thoughts. They're beliefs that you have. They're beliefs you have, that you violated. And that it makes sense that you wouldn't want to get curious or investigate or think, or feel that thought.

[00:06:49]Can you see how moving from just having the fear, to noticing that you were feeling fear can open up some space for you to change your experience from reaction to awareness. Sometimes we are afraid because we have the mistaken belief that if we think of thought it must be true. Or if we want it not to be true, we need to argue or fight against it. And we either win. Or we lose. If it's a thought that we got from our parents, from society, or medical providers, we might feel that they are the authority. And they're right. And I'm wrong. But I want to ask you to put down this debate club habit. And come over to what I called drama club.

[00:07:41]We begin to notice. What are you making this thought mean? What are the feelings and sensations you have when you think it. Feeling fear is a normal human response. And we dislike feeling upset. When we try not to feel things is when we create a lot of distress for ourselves. But feeling something isn't the same as agreeing.

[00:08:16]When we try to not feel something or we try to think something that we should feel. That feels like lying. That could feel like self gaslighting. And then we will feel the experience of that. So the process of curious awareness is to begin to understand our own associations and our own reactions. We always start there.

[00:08:45]What am I making this mean? Can be a gift of a question to ourselves. We often want to associate the feeling with the circumstance. And then, because we find feeling this feeling or story unpleasant, we think we need to blow it up, change everything really quickly to feel something different.

[00:09:07]So like on Thursday, I got a tattoo coverup. I also woke up in the morning in a surprising amount of back pain. I don't usually have back pain. My brain immediately started telling me that I must've done something wrong. And that this pain will get in the way of my getting my tattoo. And that it was unfair that I'm also still recovering from a sprained ankle. And I wanted to blame myself. And I wanted to not be experiencing back pain.

[00:09:40]But I said, well, Deb, you know, a lot about pain. So what might be the best approach right now? What am I making it mean that I am experiencing pain?

[00:09:53] I'm making it mean that something happened and it was my fault. That I'm always going to be injured and never out of pain. That it's going to be something new that I will have to deal with and I have enough on my plate. That I don't know how to care for myself and my dad at the same time. That this is too much. And I can even feel myself getting emotional when I read these thoughts. These thoughts have resonance.

[00:10:25] So I took a moment with that thought dump. And I asked myself to separate the story from the circumstance. And the circumstance was that I'm feeling pain in my back on the right side. And it hurts when I go from laying down to sitting up. From sitting up to standing but it feels better as I start walking. And I don't remember any proceeding incident. I decided to think that this pain was transitory. I decided to think that regardless of what the pain was about I could choose to soothe and tend to myself. That I could feel and allow the fear that was arising without agreeing with the content of the thoughts that I was having.

[00:11:19] Then I decided that I would just stay curious throughout the day and see what my body was doing. I can be relaxed when I feel an intense sensation as something that's just passing through. And I decided that if the pain got worse, or something changed that required me to get it checked out. That I would know when that was. But for now I'm just going to go do my day, and keep creating relaxed, self love and care for myself, get my tattoo, which I was excited about. And then I'm not going to focus on the pain because I don't want to tell my brain that it is something I want more of.

[00:12:00]And it's changed. Today is Saturday. And I woke up an 80% less pain. Hooray. Totally celebrating, having less pain. And it's not like I did anything. I just let myself relax. I created a friendly, relaxed space to feel what I was feeling without agreeing. When we cultivate the ability to feel or allow a feeling it doesn't need to stick around. And you don't need to avoid it.

[00:12:37]I had a conversation recently with a client about her experiences of fear and overwhelm. She said that letting go was scary. Scary because you don't know anything else. And I asked, what if it was okay to be scared sometimes? It's okay to feel afraid. It's just a feeling.

[00:12:59]It's like if we had a party and we invited all of our feelings over, but then when fear showed up, we decided it wasn't invited and we slammed the door in it in fear's face.

[00:13:10]And fear being a feeling that was invited to the being human party, knocked on the door. Because it was meant to be with all the other feelings. And you hold back fear at the door. And the more fear pushes on the door. The stronger you have to be at resisting it. And all the other feelings are at the party.

[00:13:33] They're being ignored and they go unnoticed. Because you're spending all your time. Trying not to let fear into your human party. Why? Because you think if you let fear into the party, it will dominate your party and ruin it? But isn't that what's happening right now when you're trying really hard to keep it out?

[00:13:55]It's taking up all your time and energy. You're exhausting yourself. You're not focusing at all on joy, happiness, silliness, sadness, calm. The party decorations and the cake and the conversation and the laughter all goes unnoticed. The other feelings are there, but they have none of your attention.

[00:14:19]If you open the door and let fear in, it could have a seat at your being human party table. Maybe you'd look over and you'd see that it was there. But if you invited it. And welcomed it to the party. You wouldn't feel the intensity that comes with trying not to feel. And the fear of feeling fear, diminishes, and you end up feeling less fear anyway.

[00:14:51]So here's some thoughts that you can think when feeling fear. That I call neutralizing thoughts. They're not meant to make any feeling go away. But they let you come near the thought and practice your curiosity skill that you will develop when you ask yourself, what am I making this mean?

[00:15:14]So here's some thoughts.

[00:15:16]There I am.

[00:15:18]This is what it feels like right now.

[00:15:22]When I am not so focused on feeling fear, what neutral or pleasant sensations or feelings. Am I not focusing on that are available to me?

[00:15:34]How can I welcome fear as just a feeling to be felt?

[00:15:39]If this feeling was a color or a shape or a texture what is happening? What does that feel like? What is that color? What is that shape? What is that texture?

[00:15:55]Does this color, shape, texture move or change as I'm paying attention to it?

[00:16:03]I'm not paying attention to these sensations to change them. Just to make the habit of paying attention more comfortable.

[00:16:16] And you want to take care of yourself as you do this practice. We don't need to force anything. In fact, this is the opposite practice. This is the art of allowing and receiving without self rejection.

[00:16:32]Remember, we are not agreeing or disagreeing with the thoughts or beliefs. We aren't going to debate club. It's time to be in drama club with trust falls and improv games. We're building the capacity, to be with ourselves with a sense of self-trust. And without needing to control everything.

[00:16:58] Anything can be noticed. If it's hard to receive compliments or experience good or pleasant feelings or experiences. You can notice that. It is hard to do noticing wrong. Because even if you think you're doing it wrong, And you notice you have the thought "I'm doing it wrong", you are doing it. You're noticing. So celebrate that. Anything we celebrate. We'll do more of.

[00:17:33]So this will help you make the space between an experience and a sensation, and all of the meaning, that we wrap up into it. Because I will tell you, 99% of the time we are reacting to fear, that are the thoughts in our heads about something. The fear that we feel is real. But maybe when we are able to look under the hood of the fear, we can see it's the story that we've told that is fueling it.

[00:18:09] Stories are powerful. They create love. And war. And struggle. And triumph. So because I'm calling it a story. I'm not diminishing the power. In fact, I think that it illuminates the power of a story. I'm not minimizing the intensity of the emotional experience. But learning to witness our metacognitive processes. And the relationship between the thought we think, about a circumstance or a body sensation, and the meaning we are making about it and the corresponding feeling, is the greatest tool I know for healing and for feeling better overall.

[00:18:59]So many of our psychogenic symptoms of anxiety are the nervous system's response to fear. The things that fall outside of our window of tolerance. And this might not be the only way in to changing or shifting these experiences.

[00:19:17]There's many different avenues to changing our physical experience. But if we could change our anxiety symptoms, or lessen them by changing our relationship to fear and reactivity, that's a whole body systemic change. And it's not contraindicated with medication or any other kind of treatment.

[00:19:43]Developing a self loving witness, this lazy detective, that we invite in to create the habit of observation with love and kindness. This is how we learn, how to decrease hypervigilance, move on from old stories. Let go of what we want to let go of. And decide what we want to believe as possible for ourselves today. And for tomorrow.

[00:20:10] When I started this work I received an overnight reduction in my knee pain. That was my embodied physical experience. I will never forget that. It did not require me to lose any weight or get any younger. My knee pain, practically disappeared, overnight just because of the way that I changed my relationship to the physical sensations I was feeling. And what I was making those sensations mean. It has forever changed my experience of my conversation between myself and my body.

[00:20:55] I had no guarantees. I only had some willingness. And also a bit of desperation. But nothing in my experience told me what happened to me was even possible. So now I hope that as this unshakeable belief, in this changeability of the body. And the experience of the body. And how closely it's related to emotional allowance. And related to the meaning that we make and attribute to the sensations that we feel in our bodies. And getting curious is the first step.

[00:21:41]I hope that some of what I've shared will be helpful to you. My coaching doors are always open. If you would like to explore what developing self curiosity feels like, please hop on a curiosity call with me. I'm happy to talk to you about my eight week pain recovery program.

[00:22:02] And this summer, I'm also going to be opening my schedule to just some general life coaching. I always work with this process. No matter what the topic is. Whether it's physical sensations that we're feeling in our bodies. Or emotional overwhelm or anxiety or productivity or relationships. It all starts with the feeling. And then it all starts with creating that ability to notice, with self-love, self-compassion and without judgment.

[00:22:34] Til next week, we'll talk some more about these ideas. I hope you have a wonderful time, practicing, noticing, and celebrating, noticing. Thank you.

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[00:00:50] Hello, this is Deb and welcome to podcast episode 15. And I asked some people if they had questions about all this stuff I'm talking about neuroplastic pain and learned neural pathways. And so I got a few questions that I thought I would answer today. So the first question is from Ali.

[00:01:13] And she says, knowing that persistent pain is a learned neural pathway. And that the brain gets better at producing pain over time how do we reduce fear? And have confidence in turning it around if we are aware that our neural pathways are getting better at it. I guess there is some fear in the actual process of pain being produced rather than any structural fear.

[00:01:43] That is a great question. And that question is really all about fear. What I talk to my clients a lot about is them wanting to know is this neuroplastic pain or is this structural pain? And that concern about wanting to know is what creates fear and overwhelm. So for me, the process is twofold. We have the overall bodymind sensitivity to threat.

[00:02:22] So, whether you call that hypervigilance. Or whether you call that being attuned because of trauma. What we have is just kind of your general disposition reactivity of your nervous system. And different activities that we take kind of attune the nervous system in different ways. And we're probably not aware of that.

[00:02:48] So do you ruminate or catastrophize? Do you think this question over and over and over again? Right? Which is my brain just getting better and better at producing pain over time is a fear-based question. Right. So then when you feel pain, Your first thought is. Oh, God, my brain is just getting better and better at producing pain over time.

[00:03:16] And when we believe that that thought is true we're going to feel something in our nervous system. So the good news about that is that you are having a sensation in your body created by this thought and this belief that the brain gets better at producing pain over time.

[00:03:37] That sentence is not untrue. We have this idea of what wires together fires together. I got that backwards. What fires together, wires together. But also what is true is what fires apart wires apart. But because we have a general negativity bias that's developed evolutionarily,

[00:04:05] we sometimes get very concerned about this, what fires together, wires together. But we're not really spending a whole lot of time thinking about the upside of what fires apart, wires apart. So you have to tell both sides of this story. And get more of a bird's-eye view of the brain. So the basic concept is the brain will deliver you the experience that you're expecting to have because that's metabolically conservative. And what we wire together fires together. So that is delivered faster and with more ease. But you can wire it apart from you. And so this process of unwiring learned neural pathway pain is the part where I spend most of my time in.

[00:05:13] Why obsess about the fact that your brain learns pain really well. Your brain also can learn how to play the flute really well. We want our brains to learn things well. So your brain just happened to learn some pain really well. We also want that same brain to learn how to make a souffle really well, talk to your neighbor really well, study for a test really well, sing a song in the shower really well, smile at a baby really well. So our brains just do what brains do. When we have fear about what a brain is doing, our body is reacting to the fear of that thought or belief. So we want to get into the fear.

[00:06:12] And that's how you're going to rewire your brain away from producing pain. So we need to unclump our conditioned responses, get into the thoughts and feelings, understand what the beliefs are about the sensations that we feel in our bodies. It's like we have a little storyteller inside of us, always delivering us the story of what's happening.

[00:06:43]But what's important to understand is that very little of that story is fact. So a fact might be you have a brain. A fact might be when I think this thought "the brain gets better at producing pain over time" I feel the sensation of fear. I feel a tightness in my chest. I feel tension in my shoulders. I feel a stabbing pain in my left eyeball. That is the circumstance.

[00:07:23] I mean, we can train it that's this part, we're going to unlearn by learning something new. Because if we just let the brain do stuff, it just does stuff. It makes conditioned responses all the time. It doesn't just like, hang out and wait for its orders. It's just surviving right. The brain's job is to create and maintain allostasis, is to create and maintain the livingness of your being. So if you're alive, thank your brain. It's doing a really amazing job. And we have to learn, work a little hard to train the brain to give us more of what we want. And less of what we don't want. So that whole part is kind of this storytelling experience that we create, this internal conversation that we create between the brain and the body. The brain slash nervous system and the body.

[00:08:28] So we want to assess our own sensitivity to threat. Are you hypervigilant? Do you ruminate or catastrophize? So getting good at noticing what our body mind does when we feel fear can help you understand what's happening biologically or like cognitive somatically. Those are words I've been playing with because we feel something in our body based on a thought. But also the feeling of things in our body if we have overwhelm that can also dampen our cognitive abilities. Right. You ever feel that sensation? That your brain is going offline. That you can't think. That's a cognitive somatic experience. That's what I'm calling it. Those are the words that are helpful for me.

[00:09:26] I have a lot of unpleasant somatic experiences when I am feeling fear. Which then can perpetuate the fear of the symptoms being structural. But we also want to go to the doctor and rule things out.

[00:09:44] I twisted my ankle the other week and I had a lot of fear. I had a lot of pain the first day and I couldn't make any decisions. What I was noticing is just my brain was running on a wheel. It's like a hamster on a wheel. And the pain just really freaked me out. And I realized that I could not make any decisions while in this fear pain state. So I had to tell myself that I was safe. That no matter what was happening with my ankle, I would figure it out. Because my brain was off to the races thinking, oh, I can't drive home. I can't do all of these things that I have planned out for the next week.

[00:10:37] Maybe this means that I'm going to perpetually have ankle pain and it won't heal. And I won't be able to roller skate or hike or like, you know, my brain just wanted to go all those places. Understandable. I was feeling a lot of pain. I did have things that I needed or wanted to do. That I thought that pain was going to prevent me from doing it.

[00:11:07] But what I recognized was I am not in a decision-making place right now. My brain is not available to help me decide what to do. So I was able to say, Just go to bed. Calm myself down. I said, what do I need right now? I probably need food. I probably need water. Maybe I need pain medication. Maybe I need to distract my brain by watching a television show. And I need to give myself messages of safety so that my nervous system stops telling me that there's a threat. So that my internal alarm could quiet. So the next day I woke up early. I felt calmer. And I Googled where the urgent care was and I realized, oh, it's only eight minutes away. And I could call a Lyft. They open it this time. I can have breakfast first which I had in my room. And I was like, well, there we go all of that cognitive ability that was not available to me the night before, because I was in fear pain overload.

[00:12:34]I was able to think and make decisions. The pain level was still about the same. Put my foot on the floor and it hurt a lot. One of the things I noticed was when I wrapped it in an ACE bandage it hurts less. So I was like, okay. I feel pretty confident that I can walk out of this hotel room. Or limp out of this hotel room.

[00:13:01] Make it into a lyft, get to the urgent care place where somebody will help me. And at the very least take an x-ray and give me a set of crutches. And I will figure everything out. So that was a lot of self-talk. But once I got the fear under control, all of my cognitive magic came back to be available.

[00:13:32] And I had to listen to the fear thoughts that I was having. But not believe them. So that my internal safety monitor would stop ringing the damn alarm bell. So acute or structural, all pain is created in the brain. And it is felt in the body. The brain interprets the neutral nociceptive input. So it's neutral as in we don't know what the response will be until it is interpreted. Right. Otherwise, it's just nociceptive input. So the difference between structural and acute is somewhat the story that we're telling and somewhat the story that our body is telling. And it is useful when you have a sprained ankle to feel pain. Cause that signals the body to stop moving. And to heal. So I knew that I sprained my ankle. And I was like, these stories make sense together. Now I could probably train my brain to experience that nociceptive input differently. And certainly people have done that.

[00:15:09] I teach in my course. I have my first week is on pain science and there are some examples of people shooting nails into their hand with a nail gun and not feeling pain. Not because there's something wrong with their nerves. But because their brain did not interpret that as dangerous for whatever reason, whether they've shot a nail through their hand before.

[00:15:36] And they're just like, oops. It's an individual process. That's why pain can be so variable. Because you are the one interpreting the experience. So twisted ankle. Feeling pain. Stay off ankle. Body can heal. Persistent chronic neuroplastic pain is brain giving messages to not do something because of fear long after the body has healed. But the healing of the body and the tissue, that message has not really been delivered because the fear pain message is the one that we've attuned our nervous system to listen to, to find. And also when we feel pain we are designed to believe it.

[00:16:42] So we're designed to believe that something is wrong when we feel pain. And then all the pieces that go into the story of what the pain means we get from lots of places. We get those stories from your doctor. We get those stories from your neighbor or watching your parent in pain or watching other people suffer.

[00:17:07] Or just these kind of passer by stories about being fat and having too much pressure on your joints and what this might mean. And oh, You know, this thing happened to so-and-so and it was terrible. Or. I feel so much better when I weigh this much versus that much.

[00:17:30]All of those bits of data, words, they get interpreted, they become part of the evaluators of the sensation. So it all gets put together. And then we get the experience that we're expecting. We're not hearing from the body that this pain is not necessary. So we have to kind of go looking for the gaps in the pain story and build a new story around it, knowing what we know about how the brain works. And knowing what we know about persistent pain.

[00:18:15] So yes, go to the doctor. If you're having a new pain and something happened, and you're concerned go to the doctor, but don't keep digging and digging and asking the same questions over and over again. Or going to one doctor then going to another doctor then going to all these doctors. Um, if you understand what is colloquially known as TMS? Or neuroplastic pain. If you understand this concept that pain is an interpretation of neutral nociceptive input why not just use those tools. But we often have an emotional experience around getting a diagnosis. So these are all the things about awareness.

[00:19:15] About understanding what our thoughts and beliefs are. This is why that is very helpful. Cause we want to understand. What is the story that we are providing to our brain about the experience we are expecting to have. The brain really is like going to give you what you want. That's all it's job is to do.

[00:19:40] So we need to train it and teach it to give us a different experience. The human brains love surety and when we keep asking this question, is it structural or is it not structural. Our relationship with wanting to know something or not knowing how to decide something can keep us in distress and be what keeps pressing the fear panic button over and over again.

[00:20:12] So human brains love surety and learning to believe first that we are safe. Even while having symptoms is the main skill. So going to the doctor to get a scan isn't going to be what keeps you safe. It's what you decide to do with that information. So using our thinking brain helps to keep us in the reality of what we know as we do the work of rewiring our safety brain. And this can happen quickly. But it requires repetition. Rewiring is like all learning. It takes place when the system demands it. So brain focus and attention is kind of the name of the game. Your brain is the follower of your attention and delivers you the experience you're looking for.

[00:21:09] The brain is a loyal dog. That just so happens to be in charge of the full body simulation machine that you are. So it's not a really smart design, but it's what we've got. So because the brain's interpretation of neutral nociception is interpreted by the safety system and delivered to you as a simulation of what you were expecting to experience. We need to offer the body mind evidence enough to create a prediction error. So it's finding holes in the matrix and this doesn't have to be dramatic. When you do that activity and it doesn't hurt what are all the things you're not noticing? That is the most rich data of your wellness right there.

[00:22:00] And then you want to practice, practice, practice. I'm going to practice, noticing the holes in the matrix .You want to practice noticing when you don't feel pain, practice noticing what happens in your body, when you place your attention someplace else. And we want to practice with the kind of experience you want to be having in general.

[00:22:27] So lighthearted. Kind. Caring. With self delight. Spacious. Silly. Open-hearted, willing to fail. Knowing you're okay. And then we want to take breaks, let our bodyminds integrate that new information. And then we want to practice again. And we want to keep doing that. Shifting focus and attention to neutral or pleasant sensations. Finding the gaps in the pain experience. And giving our bodies messages of safety. Maybe that sounds easy. Maybe that doesn't sound easy. Maybe it's like entirely confusing.

[00:23:19] That is okay. Part of my practice is to find the 70 billion ways of explaining this to you. So hopefully something I said in this Ali will help you understand it more. But I think the , Too long didn't listen version of it would be stop focusing so much on what fires together, wires together. And spend at least the equal amount of time with what fires apart, wires apart. We want to spend more time building the neuropathways we want to be having than thinking or worrying about the ones that we don't want to be having.

[00:24:14] Now it's time for a question from Esther. Esther says. I'm quite sure the reason for my back problems is the knowledge of not being slash feeling supported. Okay, knowing that what can I do to not be pinned down by this anymore? And move freely. I'm in stuck mode or stuck modus. I'm in stuck modus, and that causes a lot of stress as well.

[00:24:45]Thank you, Esther that's a great question. So, this is a question about the focus of the mind body. And what I see in your question is you're creating a conditioned response between the sensations in your back and now a meaning that you're focusing on. But that meaning is not the entirety of your experience. It is just where you are placing your attention.

[00:25:11] Your brain follows your attention and believes you, when you say you aren't feeling supported. But that can't possibly be the only truth. So, is there a way that you want to tell that story differently? You can think, how am I feeling supported? By calling a feeling of fact, you're making it impossible for your nervous system to shift.

[00:25:40] So, I'm not telling you the tell yourself that you aren't not feeling supported. Right. I'm not saying to tell yourself that you aren't allowed to feel that way. But, what are ways in which you do feel supported by yourself or others? How much time relative to the focus on the support you're not feeling do you give to where you are feeling supported.

[00:26:13]So I like to think of life as 50/ 50. Nothing can be all good. So you can't only live in all support. So we can think about interdependence. That lives all around us and we can call that support. Knowing that there's roads, schools, people who grow and pick your food. The people who stock the shelves at the grocery store you shop in. Other friends or teachers that you have now, or have had in the past. You have mountains of support that you can feel bolstered by if you choose to tell your story that way. And you have your own support your curiosity and your self-compassion, your desire to feel better and to get curious about how you do that. We have oxygen and gravity and sunshine and photosynthesis as support. So I could go on and on. And so this isn't me telling you that you're wrong. To not feel support. I am suggesting that this story about the back pain and the meaning you're assigning to it, itself, the story, is what keeps that neural feedback loop happening. So if you want to move freely, You bolster yourself with the belief that your back is fine. And you move. And while you're moving you give yourself messages of safety.

[00:27:51] You care deeply for your own wellbeing, from a place of self friendship. And you shift your focus towards what you are desiring. What fires together, wires together. And what fires apart. Wires apart again. That is the whole jam. Neuro-plasticity is simple. When we let it be.

[00:28:16] And is just a macro version of learning. It's just that when we're adults we think we should know things. Then when we are challenged, we often feel shame. And when we feel shame, Our nervous system likes to take us on a ride.

[00:28:34] All emotions are fleeting. And feelings are our friends. Your feelings are for you. They are not for anyone else. Pain is a protection mechanism of the nervous system. It is often a call to action. Sometimes that action is to listen to the quiet voice inside of you that is asking to be heard. So just like emotions are fleeting. So is physical pain. Let yourself feel some physical discomfort without letting the stories in your mind, run away with you about what it might mean. If your back hurts, move. Notice, any thoughts that arise when you are moving. Know that those thoughts are part of what your nervous system is reacting to.

[00:29:30] And if you're feeling pain it's because they're setting off the conditioned response of the pain you're expecting to have. When you allow a sensation to be there. And just place your attention on neutral or pleasant, sensory experiences, you're rewiring the brain towards a feeling of safety. Towards this feeling of neutral or pleasant, sensory experiences. So we want to send the brain where you want it to go while moving.

[00:30:05] Then notice and celebrate having moved without pain or with less pain. And you just keep doing it and noticing it and doing it and noticing. But not evaluating. We're not evaluating and scanning and assessing. We're just doing things and noticing. Getting curious. Giving messages of safety. Creating a lot of allowance for the human experience. When we don't tell ourselves on the inside that we need to be protected all the time then our system's need to press that alarm button will be decreased.

[00:30:55] So Esther, I hope that this answers your question. Neural rewiring is a thing that happens when we do it. You're not going to rewire your brain's messages around the movement without moving. It's going to be hard to do that. So have to make it a little bit of a playground. And do it when you have a sense of willingness. Right. We don't ever want to force ourselves. This is not telling our brains they're a bad dog and like forcing ourselves to do things because force is not listening.

[00:31:34] But we want to listen to tend to, not listen to agree. I don't know if that made any sense, but. I appreciate the opportunity to answer these questions. And I look forward to continuing to develop the skills to explain this idea of this internal conversation. and pain as part of being human. And how we can easily but with practice rewire our physical experiences. Thank you so much. I'll talk to you next week.

View Details

You ever have that friend/colleague you love to talk shop with?
That's me and @larissa_parson

She's a pelvic floor movement coach/teacher who in her words "I help you restore your core, without the shame, oppression, and misogyny that turns women's bodies into a problem." In this video we discuss her own insights as a movement teacher as well as a person with a body that has reoccurring pain.

We discuss the impacts of language on the nervous system and why the format of the program was perfect for her as a mom of two 10 year olds with no childcare while running a full-time business. I love that she's able to take the work that we created back to her clients and help them quickly shift into curiosity and neural pathway repatterning.

Curious how this work can benefit you?
https://linktr.ee/movewithdeb - click this link above in my profile and book at 45 minute consultation.

Transcript

[00:00:50] Deb: Welcome to Move With Deb the podcast. This is episode number 14. I'm hanging out and chatting with my movement pal Larissa. It's that kind of behind the scenes we're talking shop experience on this podcast, you can see the interview that we did together on YouTube. There's a way in which we just get each other. A lot of overlapping parts of our individual Venn diagrams. And it's been really fun, to teach her what I know and learn together this kind of embodiment work so we can help our clients feel better in their bodies, whatever bodies they have. I hope you enjoy.

[00:01:40] Larissa: My name's Larissa Parson. I'm a movement teacher specializing in core and pelvic floor health. And, um, let's see, I live in North Carolina. I like to hula hoop. Now. I like to paddle board. These are all things that are relatively new to my body this year or last year. Um, and I am on a mission to bring more joy and justice into the world by helping people connect to their bodies.

[00:02:06]Deb: I love that. Yay. Um, so what inspired you, like, why did you sign up for this chronic pain program?

[00:02:15]Larissa: I was really, um, taken by the combination of curiosity and joy in the way that you approach it. When a lot of. You know, like as a movement teacher, I read a lot of stuff and I study a lot of stuff and I'm really, you know, following lots of people.

[00:02:32] And I follow some people who talk about pain science, and it's always come across as this very kind of like heady, often lots of white men talking about this stuff in a very jargony way. And I just don't groove with that. Like, that's just not my thing. And so when I heard you talking about it, I was like, oh, now I can understand this in a way that really appeals to me.

[00:02:59] And like, I can see how this would be really useful. Not only in dealing with my own body and its sensations of occasional pain and some and chronic reinjury. Um, And I can see how this would be the way that you present it and the way that you model exploring it is how I've like. I have a lot of clients, you have pain that people come to me as a movement teacher because I can help them.

[00:03:28] Here's some exercises that might help your body feel better, but it's really hard to get to feel better if we're still blocked by chronic pain or emotional discomfort, that's restricting how we feel embodied. So that's why I wanted to take this.

[00:03:44]Deb: You are also not just being a teacher. You are also a person with a body and a movement practice. So on a personal level, tell me a little bit about what the experience has been like for you in terms of even just, right, like you're not just learning it to teach other people, that you've learned things that you've experienced yourself. Cause it's an experiential program. It's even though there's a psychoeducation component of it, which is very important because we cannot understand pain and a new possibility of it without these ideas.

[00:04:25] Larissa: Right.

[00:04:26]Deb: But then there's the feeling it in your body part. So tell me about that part for you.

[00:04:33] Larissa: So when we started working together, and when I started working through the course material, I was at about a year and nine months out from a pretty intense knee injury, um, for which I did, you know, six months of physical therapy and kept working on my own and did a whole bunch of other exercise programs.

[00:04:53] And I was finding that I periodically would have a flare up of the pain and the symptoms, in my knee. I had a story about my knee, which was, if I do this, then it hurts. Or sometimes I accidentally do this and then it hurts. And, um while I was working through the course material. I discovered that in my own movement practice, I was able to do movements that I had been avoiding and that I had been afraid of. And that I had been just feeling really hesitant about and modifying and just like not, not really wanting to try them because I was afraid of pain basically. Um, and I've found that, you know, this, this, whatever it is, the thing that comes up with my knee, not really chronic, but kind of recurring occasional pain in my knees.

[00:05:45] Um, even when I've had little moments where it flares up since we started the course. I can get back to doing the movements, I want to do the same day as opposed to two days later or the next day or whatever. Even if the pain is very intense in the moment I just sit with it. I notice it, there it is. I tune into the sensation, maybe do like a little gentle somatic tracking with it. And then I asked myself later, do I want to exercise? How does that feel? And then sometimes it feels really, really good. And that's really been a tremendous gift, um, to my body. And then there have also been a couple other places where I've had more kind of chronic ongoing discomfort where, um, practicing again, probably somatic tracking, but practicing, just reading and thinking and learning all of this stuff has made a difference in my experience of those areas of discomfort has made a difference in instead of thinking, oh, I need to go do this, this, this, and this, because I can jump right into a list of things I can do to make it stop or make it change because that's what I do. Um, yeah. Being able to, to stop trying to fix it all the time and just notice it, has been a tremendous gift in terms of feeling more at home in my body, even than I was before.

[00:07:03] Deb: What's your experience like going through this material?

[00:07:08] Larissa: I found the material to be really easy to manage. And that's saying a lot, considering that I'm, you know, running my own business, seeing clients parenting two now ten-year-olds in a pandemic with no childcare. Uh, getting through online courses is always really, really hard for me, especially when there isn't a whole lot of, especially if there is not a whole lot of like actual interaction. And that's one of the things that I really love about this course was that it wasn't just go do this stuff on your own and read this stuff and listen to this stuff and do these videos.

[00:07:41] But it was really like go to just this stuff and then let's talk it through so that we really, you really have a deeper understanding of the material. And I found that the material was broken up into such nice small chunks that I could put on my headset and listen to a little while I was cooking dinner or take 10 minutes and sit down and do an exercise or, um, folding laundry I went through a lot of the material while holding laundry, because it was like I could still watch and listen and kind of be present to the moment, um, while also getting household tasks done. And I find that a lot of online courses don't necessarily necessarily allow for that, including some of the ones that we've taken where, you know, like I don't necessarily have an hour to block out to do an exercise video right now in these conditions. So I really appreciated the way things were broken up.

[00:08:33] Deb: What I think is funny is that even when I created this course, I thought that I would be doing more movement with people and. I haven't been. Occasionally I'll get on the floor. I'll teach somebody a few things with like a foam roller, just kind of about kind of like helping them shift or create some opening in terms of like being able to attend to the sensations in their bodies. But I honestly thought that I would be doing a lot more movement teaching and that's not where this program is at this moment. And it may evolve into like having this other piece. So, um, I think why I mentioned that is I think it's so interesting that we can affect such, um, drastic physical change without applying like a physical technique.

[00:09:31]Larissa: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we did have we done a single physical thing together? I think mostly I just get on and then cry. It's totally a physical thing. Totally feeling the feelings in my body. Yeah. Like that's what I feel like that has been one of the most surprising things is just like really having the way that you create, a sense of safety for me to feel all of the feelings that are coming up as I'm experiencing them and talking about them and talking about this embodied experience or talking about even just like, I can't believe that I did that thing and it didn't hurt, you know, like all of those things.

[00:10:16] Um, it's, it's been really phenomenal to have space held in that way and to have, um, your thoughtful support and really gentle, but also very clear guidance. Like when you're telling a story, Deb's going to call you out on that. Right. And like, the kindest possible way. And I love that. I love that. Like, you're so good at taking, listening to what someone has to say and then seeing where we're still like falling into the pattern that we are really familiar with. When we're shaking up the pattern, we're trying to like make a shift in the way that we're going to talk about our body and make a shift in the way that we're going to talk about this experience of being human in a body with feelings and stuff. Um, and you do that in such a kind way that also really sticks. Like it, it just gives me a lot to think about between sessions as well.

[00:11:20]Deb: And I want to bring it back, especially with you too, that this is biology, creating safety with our emotions, changes our physical experience, of , and like interpretation of what is really at like a neutral nociceptive input and, you know, nociception just means kind of like changes in pressure, temperature and, and chemicals. Right? This is why talking ,this is why the coaching part is important, right. Because we learn through dialogue. Right. Um, why the biology of the nervous system. And I think like everything people are learning about polyvagal theory, like, you know, we have all these aha moments is that the nervous system is not psychology, right?

[00:12:13] Like there's this weird disconnect in this country. And maybe, I don't know, wherever places where mental health and physical health are like seen as separate things. But they're not. And that sensations and thoughts and feelings, all interplay with the nervous system, the nervous system is the body. Right? And, and, and so in the first week I show like how, you know, our autonomic nervous system connects to all the organs in the, you know, and it's in this like cute little, two minute animated video, because we don't actually have to become neurobiologists to understand how this works. And then I lead people through the experience of it because it's one thing to understand it intellectually. But then if you are still just having, like having sensations and reacting to them, that's the part that we get to do one-on-one.

[00:13:14]Larissa: Uh, from a professional perspective, really like, oh, this is what my magic is in my work. Like, let's take that. Let's take all of that and make space for your human experience and your emotional experience in your body. In addition to just like your, your muscles, like they aren't separate. I mean, that's the thing, right? Like that the physical experience and the human emotional experience, they're not separate. That's what you just said, but, but like, it was really powerful to think and feel it in my body, like, oh, having a session with you talking about something complicated and mind mindblowing, feeling how that the effect of working on this in my own body has been amazing. And noticing also that this is something that works really, that like, this is why people come to work with me is because that's something that I also like to do and play with.

[00:14:19] Deb: This is why this is your, your, the one driving your program, right? Yeah. I'm not here telling you what you're supposed to get out of it.

[00:14:32] Larissa: And that's really amazing. I think that a lot of the time we, we jump into some sort of online course and we're like, I am going to learn this, this, and this here are the learning objectives. And they're laid out for me and this is what I'm going to get out of it. And this is what, um, this is how it happens and it's very linear and it's very top down. And this feels like, wow, here's a whole bunch of interesting information broken down into digestible bites. It's like a, it's like you're at the sushi bar and the boats are coming around and you're like, I want some of that. And I got a little bit of this. Oh, I get a little of this too. Oh, that's really interesting. Oh, my mind is blown by how delicious that is. That is some wasabi in there. You know, you have this whole little smorgasbord and then you're like, uh, you're like the sushi chef is like, what makes, what else might be interesting for you? Not for that person over there, but for you as a, as an individual human. And that is. It's amazing.

[00:15:30]Deb: So you probably also hear from your clients what their medical providers have told them about what is happening on the inside of their body. So I just want to get your take because in my program I talk about like the nocebo of language, right. I talk about, and we do a lot of playing with language, um, because. What we're trying to do is get a different belief like into the body about what's happening. So maybe share with me either stuff that you're going to take to your work from this, or just what you've noticed with your clients in terms of what they bring into the room.

[00:16:15]Larissa: There's a wide range of experiences that come into the room, um, from people whose pain has been disregarded by their medical providers, because they're told things like if you just lose weight, you will feel better. Um, they're told, or there are times when they feel like they haven't had, they feel pretty good in some ways, but there's something that's always kind of nagging. I get a lot of always, I always have this weird thing in my hip or whatever. Um, And sometimes they see in medical providers about it, or sometimes they've done physical therapy about something and they just haven't quite been able to complete whatever it is or they've done it and they still don't feel good.

[00:16:59] Um, and what I see a lot of and hear from my clients and that I think has gotten even better and more clear while I've taken this course with you is that people just want to be heard and listened to and like, and validated. And when we start validating the experience of being in your body, your body starts to actually feel better. It's not like I have a magic potion I'm pouring through the zoom screen, but every time that I've played around with something like somatic tracking, I had a client the other day, we did some tracking and she was like, I don't feel anything, you know, where she was used to scanning for pain. And then I was like, well, scan for not pain. And let's like, so changing my language and like looking for things like let's scan for not pain, let's look for sensation. Let's change. Like, so that's some of the stuff that's come in, you know, more recently is like, I've always talked about sensation, but to really kind of refine how we talk about those experiences. And those sensations has been amazing because people are able to say I'm not feeling that thing, that is always, a thing.

[00:18:20] Deb: I love what you just said, which was asking them to, to scan for no pain, right.

[00:18:26] Larissa: Or not. Okay. We said, I wrote down, not pain, but yeah. Like what are we, what are we looking for when we're looking at everybody? We're, we're thinking about our bodies, what are we looking for? Why are we right. This isn't that week one where we talk about just kind of always looking for danger signs. Right. And what if we just didn't and we looked for the not danger signs and then took that into our scanning, our bodies. It's like, it's such a fun tool.

[00:18:51] It's such a fun tool to say, you know, or not even the tool. It's just like, it's like, it feels like a toy, right? It's not a tool. It's more like, oh, that's interesting. But that one hip feels more of this or that. And the other one, how does the other one feel? What does it feel like when the other one is doing stuff and. And then like, can you see if you can feel that on the other side too, is really an interesting place to play with how our mind body is working.

[00:19:20] Deb: One of the things that you just said was so important, fearing pain that is very, uh, normal. Right. It makes a lot of sense to always be on alert for like, cause we don't want to be in more pain where we're trying to manage the pain that we're having. Right. And like the pain is really felt is a felt experience in your body. It's not made up. The experience of scanning is what trains our brain to pay attention to what it's supposed to pay attention to and make that very important.

[00:19:54] Larissa: Yeah.

[00:19:55]Deb: And it's so interesting and still mind blowing to me that that is what turns the volume up or down in terms of our pain experience. How has that been in terms of integration for you in terms of your commitment to the tools that you use to help people and your like, relationship to, to your work and kind of integrating this.

[00:20:22] Larissa: I think it's still evolving right now, but I feel like a lot, a lot of my movement sessions have gotten more talky. I've gotten much more talky. There's a lot more there. You know, there's a lot more pep talk for the nervous system, right. In my movement sessions now, um, a lot of my homework now has been more like, uh, go write about what it might feel like if this pain wasn't happening. You know, it's been kind of more like let's, let's like play with some of these ideas a little bit, um, do some somatic tracking that kind of thing.

[00:20:58] Um, at the same time as like, if I am trying to help their core muscles get stronger and more coordinated then they still have exercises that are going to reinforce the new pattern that we want to establish. So doing the nervous system brain work. Is part of helping reestablish a new pat or establish a new pattern. And it's part of just breaking down the other patterns that we don't necessarily want, or that we want available to us, but we want to have more options. And I'm really trying to, I've been working on my language around this a lot in the last couple of years, really, that, that what I'm teaching people is here are some different ways you can move so that your body has more options for everything.

[00:21:45] Um, and that. Combined with let's take a minute and do some scanning for not pain, let's do this, let's try this really. I think gives people this a felt sense of, I, for some reason, the phrase somatic safety is coming to mind, but like they were giving their nervous system a chance to say that these exercises are okay for you to try. These are okay for you to play with it's. Okay. Like that, that sense that your body is safe and that your mind understands that it's safe. So it's like, none of these words are adequate. I'm just gonna say, so this felt sense of safety gives people the freedom to play with trying different patterns on for size. And then those patterns we reinforce the ones that seem to be creating more possibilities for movement and play and joy and doing the things you want to do in your body. And so having more toys to play with gives us, like makes it easier to get there.

[00:22:57]Deb: How do we create safety for our clients who are impacted by multiple, um, experiences in the world that are unsafe for them?

[00:23:09] Larissa: Um, I think that, uh, validation, consent, checking in. Um, and then there's another thing that was popping into my head. Oh, right. Like. I can't give anybody agency, but I can affirm their agency. And, and that's important too that, right? Like, how does this work for you? It, how does it feel like that kind of, you're in charge of your own experience of being in your body? I can give you all of the things I know, but ultimately you're in charge of that experience and you're in charge of what we do together. Like it's not, it's not a, um, I think a lot of systems or a lot, not systems, a lot of people, uh, want to come across as more authoritative, like here's how, the only way you can do this, this is how you fix this. This is the solution to the problem, right? This is, this is how we do this and making a space safe for people, it means you have to like, let go of a little bit of that and be, or actually a whole lot of that. Like most of it, you have to be open to like adjusting your approach and that's fine. Um, and the idea, I feel like there's also the idea that for the idea of nociception as this kind of, that, um, perception of sensation as opposed to like, uh, a nocebo right. Like that, that was, that was interesting because I feel like, um, getting that language more clear was really useful. I don't know that that's kind of ramble, like in my head, it makes sense.

[00:24:50]Deb: And what it means for one person to be in pain, is a different experience for somebody else to be in pain, the access to resources, the support systems that they have, the communities that they live in. You know, even if you can take off time from work, like all of these things that, you know, go into the experience of pain and, and nociception as a pain signal from the body, doesn't leave any room for those other elements that go into the interpretation of sensations.

[00:25:31]Larissa: Yeah, the, yeah. And the, I mean, I think, especially when you say the bio-psycho-social aspects of it, the cultural conditioning that we have vis-a-vis pain and how we're supposed to uh, react to it, the ways that we're supposed to seek help for it, the ways that we're or not the way that we know we won't get help. If we do seek help for it, the way that we will get labeled, if we go to different places for help, you know, like all of those things, um, affect the way that we interpret that signal and, and we do it so fast, you know?

[00:26:04]Deb: I was like, oh, here I am also a person in a larger body who has pain. I have all of my stories about being in pain, besides the physical experience of being in pain and all the stories I have about then being an educator and a helper and a teacher being in pain and all of these things, which then led me to this work, and then I was like what?!? And then, you know, to, to me radically changing my knee pain overnight because I learned a new idea. Didn't make any sense to the like bodyworker issues in the tissues person and all of that bio mechanics training and all of that work. And it unearthed, a lot of thoughts I had about myself. And, you know, they're not like awesome thoughts I had about myself.

[00:27:04] Larissa: I would say that is also true of my experience working through this material with you. And I don't think you would disagree.

[00:27:11] Deb: So it's taken me kind of a long time, but also, so then doing this process of like noticing, right, because a lot of this is about making room, separating the reaction from the awareness.

[00:27:28] Larissa: Yes.

[00:27:29] Deb: And becoming aware of our reactions, like seeing this somatic experience, like feeling this somatic experience of reacting to these thoughts that flow by our brains. Um, That we also just think of ours as like mental health or something else or trauma or that stupid shit that my mother said to me 30 years ago, that's like still lodged somewhere in my head. It all comes together. And so yeah, this piece about me, like I'm maybe yes, I am vulnerable on the internet on purpose. And also when I see that I want to hide now, my curiosity is like turned on and it's like, I don't see that impulse as shameful and you know, and that's what I love because I'm, I'm literally, that is neural reprocessing. I am rewriting my habitual patterns to now have curiosity instead of shame.

[00:28:47] Larissa: Yeah. Oh my God. Can we just replace shame with curiosity everywhere? Like, wouldn't that I just, I'm just sitting here thinking about pelvic floors for one, but, you know, because that's my thing, but can we just replace so much shame with curiosity, like on so many levels and so many different contexts, I would so much rather be curious than feel shame. I would so much, like it's just so much more, it leads to a more joyful embodied experience. It leads to, and it, but it's also, you know, it's, um, our culture is, is wired towards shame. And so for us to make a better culture, we have to rewire it from ourselves.

[00:29:35] Deb: And I often now talk about peace instead of safety.

[00:29:38] Larissa: I like that.

[00:29:41]Deb: I don't know why, but that seems to be working for me as a word. Um, because peace, if I think about like, my nervous system, I want to calm it's like reactivity, right. To anything that it perceives as negative. Um, even if it's that I have felt shame or that I, whatever it is then. Yeah. Like the awareness, like being peace in the awareness. Right. Cause sometimes as we're going, like if you're going through a growth process, sometime it makes a lot of sense to be rejecting of what you're trying to grow away from.

[00:30:26]Larissa: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:28]Deb: And I think this is that next level of me, like making it a more peaceful embodied experience of growth, which then changes our pain experience.

[00:30:40] Larissa: Yes, I'm more peaceful. So I just listening to you riff on peace and safety, I keep thinking the thing that is tricky about safety is that we associate safety with danger and in opposition to danger. And there's absolutely danger in life. There's absolutely danger and being in a body that society marginalizes right. In many, in many myriad ways we can all be marginalized. But, um, but if we look at our, like you were saying, if we look at it as finding peace with the process of experiencing things, um, that feels really good when I hear that. It makes me feel, or I feel like peace and curiosity go hand in hand for me. But I, but curiosity for me is a very peaceful thing. It's not like a, it's not like, you know, dig it, you know, it's not like that. It's, it's not a tunneling kind of curiosity. It's kind of like a cool, that's curious, but not that might not be everybody, you know.

[00:31:46] Deb: I think I needed to add in peace because my, I can get very obsessive. And I find learning, very pleasurable, but then I want like, I want to immerse myself and then it, it has its own intensity quality, like obsessive quality that I finally noticed is kind of also a part of my, like, um, Like self rejection story in some way. That's kind of why I always have people check in with language in their own body because my language doesn't necessarily resonate. Like some people love the word surrender. I, I really do not doesn't work for me. And maybe at some point it will, but I like to. You know, talk about like inviting and welcoming.

[00:32:34] Larissa: Love and invitation. Yes.

[00:32:36]Deb: But I think that somebody can claim that that word surrender would kind of have the same meaning. And I'm just like, yeah, I though the idea of surrender makes me want to be like, fuck you like immediately rebellious.

[00:32:52] Larissa: So I actually find for like, listening to you talking about peace, I'm like, cool. I love peace, but listening to other people talk about peace. I'm like, fuck you. So it just depends on the context and, and what's the intention and what's going on. I mean, I think that's, that's the cool thing about having a lot of people learn this stuff and start to bring it into the world is that we're all going to say it in our own ways. And some of it's going to resonate and some of it's not going to resonate. And as long as we're sharing this biological information like we are, as we are sharing this way of playing with being embodied, um, and feeling the feelings, then some of our words are gonna hit home for the right people in the right way. And it's going to blow their minds and change their worlds. And for some people. Maybe somebody else's words are going to do that. That's fine.

[00:33:44]Deb: I think that's a great place to leave it. I think you're awesome. Thank you so much for doing this with me. I really, really appreciate that.

[00:33:51] Larissa: I think you are awesome. I'm so grateful to be doing this with you and I'm like, I want all of my learning experiences to be like this. So,

[00:34:07]Deb: I don't know. I think it comes from really being , like unable to learn in a lot of environments, not unable, but like having a lot of difficulty. I have a lot of difficulty in a lot of environments.

[00:34:21]Larissa: Yeah.

[00:34:21] Deb: Um, I'm not a good classroom student, even though I got a master's degree, like whatever. So, but there's a way I think this is, this is that whole part of it is like I've stopped trying to be somebody else.

[00:34:36] Larissa: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:34:38] Deb: Then all of a sudden I'm like, oh wait, the way that I'm sharing this really helping people, that's awesome. Looking into the future thinking I have something that I want to share and I kept thinking I needed to be somebody else, do something else, know more things, know how to be a teacher, know all these things. There's so much suffering wrapped up in that for me, that I literally would just like. I could feel it in my body. And then like, that was a lot of my anxiety experiences were also, um, my like embodied anxiety and experiences were very intense because of that. And then I was like, what if I just do it the way I'm going to do it and then that is good enough?

[00:35:27] Larissa: Yeah.

[00:35:27] Deb: That permission that I gave myself changed my entire embodied experience. And that's kind of where now that's kind of what informs everything. I was like, I, I went through the work of being the program and then making it, in the way that was going to work for me. And there may be people who would be like, I mean, there's also, I'm not the only person teaching this. Like I come from a lineage. And, um, you know, there's a lot of different people who are getting to share it. So I'm excited to now feel like, oh, I have given, I have not only had permission from them, but I'm giving myself permission to then just kind of work in the way that I work.

[00:36:13]Larissa: I feel like, yeah, it's wonderful. I feel like giving yourself permission is a lot of the heart of some of this. Also you have permission to feel. You have permission to move, you have permission to exist. You have permission to want to change things. And a lot of the time we don't give ourselves that permission. You have permission to share what you know.

View Details

Lauren & I talk about her successes in my Chronic Pain Recovery Program.

One of the things I loved about working with Lauren was meeting her where she was with all her skepticism, doubt, confusion, disbelief that her pain could ever change.

She had lived for 20 years with weekly migraines and was told by Doctors that she should feel lucky that the meds for for her. How could a program that's only a few weeks change that? Not to mention having a very stressful job during a pandemic.

There's no reason to wait until life gets less stressful to change your relationship to pain. In this podcast you hear from her, describe not only her migraines being gone in 3 weeks but how this work has changed her relationship with her family and herself.

She showed up to this work with willingness and curiosity. Take a listen. If you're curious and willing and ready to get started, email me at paincoachdeb@gmail.com as I have a few spots available right now.

#BeYourOwnCompellingReason #FearBrainAndChronicPain #RewritingNeuralPathways #DrSarno #OurNervousSystemIsAlwaysListening #TMSCoach #QueerLifeCoach #FatLifeCoach #MindBodySyndrome #TheBrainIsMagic #SomaticPainRetaining

Transcript

[00:00:50] Deb: Hi, and welcome to Move with Deb, the podcast. This is episode 13. It's an interview that I did with my client, Lauren, that you can find on YouTube, so you can see our beautiful faces. But I turned it into a podcast so you can listen on the go. And she describes her experience using this pain reprocessing course to get rid of 20 years of migraines and also 10 years of neck and shoulder pain that she was experiencing. She shares her experience of the tools that I taught. And how she was able to apply it. And her experience of coming to this work with a lot of skepticism. But also curiosity. And, I'm happy to share this interview with you. Enjoy.

[00:01:44] Lauren: So I am Lauren Ball. I'm an attorney in Arkansas. Um, I have had migraine for about 20 years and I experienced shoulder and neck pain for probably 10 years before I started the pain course.

[00:02:03]Deb: So what inspired you to sign up for the program?

[00:02:09] Lauren: Well, when I saw the program, I thought, okay, this is a way that I can have less migraines a week. I was taking a prescription medication multiple times a week for my migraine, um, which caused rebound migraines. And it was kind of a cycle that I was hoping to get out of. But at the time I really didn't think it was possible to never experience migraines. I was just hoping to maybe have like one or two a week.

[00:02:38]And I, you know, I was sort of hoping that it would help my shoulder neck pain, but at the same time, like I really believed that was pain that I would have forever.

[00:02:50] Deb: What was your experience like going through the program? So we chatted briefly about it then basically I just said here's a link. And then, go through the first week and then we'll chat.

[00:03:05] Lauren: Yeah. So the first week was really eyeopening for me because it was an introduction to the actual, like pain science, which I had heard of, but I wasn't really familiar with. And I think when I went through the whole first week materials, it kind of opened my mind up to. Oh, this is something that could actually, you know, get rid of pain. Like you can actually rewire your brain, which was a totally new concept for me. And so, uh, that kind of laid the foundation, you know, for me, for the whole course. And I think I started the materials on like a Saturday or a Sunday, and then it just kind of, it put that in my mind, like, this is how this could work, you know?

[00:03:48] And then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I had no pain. Like no shoulder pain, no neck pain, no migraines. And I was completely freaked out. It's like, okay, what is happening? You know, what is this magic going on? I was like, like skeptical. And, and I was also really shocked because it had been, you know, a full 20 years of pain.

[00:04:11] And then, you know, all of a sudden I'm pain free for, you know, 3 days straight. It was just blowing my mind. And then, um, I would, I would have some symptoms come up. I think it was that Thursday, you know, and I had a different awareness of the pain and the symptoms, you know, after going one through the first week.

[00:04:34]And then we had our coaching, you know, and I feel like the one-on-one coaching helped me made things more concrete for me. Um, it also, I feel like, um, it like set me up for success. You know, it helped me actually apply. Like I learned the tools in the course, and then the coaching helped me like learn how to apply it to myself.

[00:04:57]So that was really helpful. And then I think we moved on to like your thoughts and your feelings after that, and also just observing your physical symptoms. And so when I would have the symptoms come up, I was able to realize what was kind of triggering those symptoms, which was new for me. You know, I had always thought this was just something that happens to me and will always happened to me. You know, but this time I was able to really see, this is, this happens and then I get the symptoms. And, and then I was able to identify this cycle of fear that I was jumping into about the symptoms, because you know, that had been explained to me in the program and I knew what to look for.

[00:05:40] And then I think we got into like the actual tools, which was like, self-compassion. And that was also a new concept for me and allowing your feelings, which was definitely new for me. And so that was, that was really, uh, I think what was most important for me because, um, when I said, okay, you know, I can offer compassion to myself and then I can also be willing to feel negative feelings and that can include pain well, then I just stopped having the symptoms all together. You know, and yeah, it was a crazy, it was a crazy whirlwind experience, but it was amazing. Yeah. And I'm still in shock.

[00:06:26]Deb: Because obviously you went to the doctor.

[00:06:28] Lauren: Yeah.

[00:06:29] Deb: You, you know, you had medication, you had migraines for 20 years. You went to the doctor probably more than one doctor, um, what did they tell you about what you were experiencing?

[00:06:45] Lauren: For my migraines? I was told, um, you know, this is genetic. And my only option is to continue to take medication. I could take, you know, preventative medication, but the side effects were pretty extreme. So I wasn't really open to that. Um, so what I ended up doing was I would take medication every time, you know, I got a migraine and I had lots of side effects from that as well. And the different doctors that I saw just basically told me that, you know, that was my option and that I should really be thankful that the medication works for me. You know, that I'm able to take it and just soldier on with the day that that was the best outcome that I could hope for.

[00:07:26] As far as my shoulder and my neck pain, I really hadn't been offered any kind of help that hadn't given me any relief. I had an x-ray and MRI and they showed no like structural issues. They couldn't point to anything that was wrong. We tried, uh, muscle relaxers, which did work, but also had detrimental side effects. So that didn't last very long. And then I've tried three different, uh, physical therapy programs and, you know, those were not successful either. And so it was just, you know, there wasn't any other options after that. So it was just like, well, you can take Aleve every day. And that was really the only thing that had been offered to me.

[00:08:11] Deb: There's the science about neural pathways and how the brain and nervous system interprets signals from the body. Then there's also this part that Dr. Sarno talks about, which are the personality types. So that was something you felt like you could see yourself in the personality types of people who were likely to kind of somaticize this resistance, I think is how I'm going to try to language that. Can you say more about that? Like did you have an aha moment? Like what was that like coming across that information?

[00:08:53] Lauren: Yeah. So I think that was the very first week. I think it was one of the first slides, you know, I'm just like casually, you know, watching the program and then it comes up either Dr. Sarno says, you know, personalities that are more likely to experience chronic pain. And I was like, Okay. This feels very, uh, pointed at me. You know, I feel very, uh, attacked right now and I saw the perfectionist, I think it was. And I was like, okay, that's definitely me. And then I saw the legalist and I was like, yes, I totally saw myself in that description.

[00:09:27] Um, And it just blew my mind. It was like every part of the program. It was just like, yes, this is me. This is, this was, this program was made for me, you know? And I think that kind of how I see myself or how my past self was that I wanted to be right. You know, in a way that was, I wanted to do everything perfectly to make sure I'm like the perfect spouse, the perfect employee, the perfect mom.

[00:09:50] And I had kind of an idea of what that would look like and boxes that I needed to check to get there. And so that's how I kind of checked to see if I'm like doing okay, you know, wasn't doing that. And it would not be okay to, you know, have negative feelings or, or negative emotion. And so I just resisted that, that kind of, I thought I would really just get in the way of me being you know, this perfect person who was doing everything right all the time. And so I was hoping that your program would just check that box for me and I can move on and trying to check the other boxes

[00:10:23] Deb: Yeah I kinda messed that one up, huh?

[00:10:25] Lauren: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. When I got to the part in the program, it was like, we're going to talk about allowance. I was like, oh man, here we go.

[00:10:33] Deb: What did that feel like to be asked to examine uh, kind of examine the space around getting a migraine. Can you say more about that? What that felt like for you?

[00:10:50] Lauren: It felt really, uh, really foreign. I think the way that I described at the time was that I felt very raw, you know, because I had never looked into that. I had never looked at those emotions or even broken down the symptoms, you know, that I was having, I have kind of, uh, had these like pre symptoms, you know, um, or I would see like floaters and the left side of my face would go numb. And, um, that would kind of kick off this cycle of fear. I had never thought about what comes before that.

[00:11:19] You know, like what starts that? And so it was totally different for me. And the first time that I did it, I was like, oh, I'm feeling angry. I don't recall ever feeling this, you know, in the last 20 years. And, and then I was like, oh, I feel angry because I don't want to feel bad. And it kind of all fell together where my brain was like, Hey, look over here, look at these terrible floaters. Look your face is numb. Forget about being sad. You know, move on to the pain. And then, you know, we got into the part of the course where, you know, pain is to protect you. And it's like, it all just came together. It all made sense. And it was kind of a relief to know like, okay, this is why this is happening. And it is something that I could change.

[00:12:06]Deb: Your face going numb, sounds like a very scary and significant, like symptom that would be alarming and makes you think that there's something wrong, like on the inside, right? Like something wrong with your body.

[00:12:28] Lauren: Yes. Yeah.

[00:12:30] Deb: What was that experience like to watch that symptom change.

[00:12:37]Lauren: Well, I mean, the way that I used to experience the symptoms was like the first scary symptom would be left side of my face going numb. And then my vision would become blurred and I would get nauseous. And my whole left arm was numb. It would just kind of go downhill from there. Um, until I took the medication. And what I always thought, you know, in my mind was, well, if I didn't take this medication, you know, it's inevitable that I'm going to have these symptoms, and if I didn't have this medication, I couldn't possibly take care of myself or hold down a job or take care of my child, you know, like I need this and this is something I'll never be able to change. And if I don't have my medication, I'm in so much trouble. And so then I go through those and I mean, I'm having this, you know, four or five times a week.

[00:13:23] And so I go three days without a migraine was mind blowing and then I experienced the symptoms starts to come up and I was able to just, you know, ask myself, okay, what am I resisting feeling right now? And the first time that I did that practice and I realized, okay, I'm angry. It's because I'm sad. And it was just like a switch flipped and the symptoms literally just like faded away.

[00:13:50] And once again, I was totally freaked out. I was like, okay, wait, where, you know, what is happening? Where is the pain, you know? And then, um, I think later in the week, you know, something else happened where the symptoms started to come up again. And then I was like, okay, I have this tool in my back pocket. I'm going to try to use that. What am I resisting? But I kind of already gotten into like a panic, the panic mode. And so that was just like a frantic searching of my mind. So it was really not working out. And so I kind of went back to, okay, what have I learned in the course? You know, that it's really all about allowance and, you know,

[00:14:29] There's one part that talks about, you know, you have these thoughts that you don't have to like, always pick them up, you know, you can just let your thoughts go on and you know, it, it talks about. It talks about that in the course, how to do that and kind of visualize that in your mind. And so I'm doing that and I was just thinking, you know, it's, the pain can be over there. I don't have to engage with it and I can be willing to just allow this pain and to, and to not make it a scary thing. And as soon as I was willing to allow that pain, then the symptoms went away again.

[00:15:02] And so I think it really, I mean, it happened time after time. I was skeptical every time and then it worked every time. And so after a couple of weeks, you know, it just builds up my confidence. And now I know that if the symptoms do come up, you know, I know how to handle them and to really look into myself and see, like, how can I offer myself compassion?

[00:15:23]Deb: That's amazing. And I want to be clear, like I did not tell you not to take your medication.

[00:15:30] Lauren: No, that's right. Yeah.

[00:15:32] Deb: But I think what I ask you is before you take your medication, like make a little room to pay attention and you really were able to, I mean, you just took that and grew that and, and in the paying attention, you could watch it shift. Yes. Yeah. Very powerful.

[00:15:55] Lauren: Yeah. And that was another thing that helped me with the tool that we talked about. Uh, the somatic tracking, uh, that we practiced and I thought that's also, it's really skeptical. You know, that's not going to work. And you visualize your pain and your symptoms. And then, you know, the pain can move and shift. And the first time I was doing that with the numbness. Uh, it's always on the left side of my face, you know, when it happens and I'm doing the somatic tracking and it like moved over to like the bottom right side of my face.

[00:16:26] And I was like, okay, like these symptoms can change. Like if it can move, it can also recede. It was just, it was really helpful to be able to just observe the symptoms and not engage with them at the same time.

[00:16:42]Deb: Well, um, oh, I'm always just blown away.

[00:16:47] Lauren: I'm still blown away.

[00:16:48] Deb: I love that. This work has changed not only your pain experience, but just kind of your, how welcoming all your feelings and creating like a. A conversation of allowance inside of you has changed some things for you. Would you say more about that?

[00:17:11] Lauren: Yeah, so I was thinking today about, you know, when did I get out of the course, you know, and of course now I'm pain free, but also I would say the biggest thing that I got out of, it was just everything else that changed in my life. And I think, you know, I'm a recovering perfectionist now, you know, I wanted everything to be so perfect that I wasn't engaging in my life, you know, my own life. I was really just resisting, um, negative emotion, but that really resulted in, I was also resisting, um, positive emotion and also any connection. You know, any real connection with people. And so, as I started practicing allowance in the course, uh, I started feeling all kinds of emotion and also started, uh, feeling like I could have a genuine relationship with people in my life , you know, with spouse and with my son. And every time I felt, uh, you know, the feeling of connection or every time that I felt an emotion, it was just like, oh, wow.

[00:18:12] Like, That is, this is what joy feels like, how exciting that I get to experience this, you know? And then the same thing happened when I would feel sad. I'm like, wow. So this is what sadness feels like like after, you know, 20 years of resisting any feeling and I just felt lucky to be feeling the full human experience and to be able to have a human relationship, you know, with my son and with my spouse.

[00:18:38] And I just feel like I'm really engaged in my own life now, whereas before I was just trying to check the boxes, you know, of a life.

[00:18:47] Deb: That's amazing and it's not like it's a not stressful time.

[00:18:52] Lauren: Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:53] Deb: You didn't have to take your life and put it on hold to create this work. You were doing it while you're working full time in the middle of a pandemic. And I know that you work kind of in the midst of stuff related to COVID. So you know, this what's happening around us, the pandemic is very impactful on you. And so you had these experiences while within just being in your own life.

[00:19:25] Lauren: Yeah, probably honestly, the most intense, emotionally intense, you know, time of my life, you know, in recent history, due to the pandemic and how my job is kind of related to dealing with the pandemic. So I know that if I can experience my life right now in the midst of this pandemic and you know, my work and not have any pain, then I should be good for the rest of my life.

[00:19:51] Deb: That part of belief that we talked about, right is understanding, kind of the science about how the, how the brain works and how the neural pathways work. Right, right.

[00:20:03] Lauren: Yeah. I mean, I don't have, I don't feel like I engage in those neural pathways, the ones that were so strong for me for so long that I automatically jumped into at the beginning of the program. I mean, that is no longer an automatic response for me anymore. You know, I go back and I look at the notes that I took, you know, from the beginning of the week of the program and I just realized, you know, that doesn't happen for me anymore. Those switches just don't flip for me anymore. So I'm very thankful.

[00:20:33] Deb: Yeah. Wow.

[00:20:36]Lauren: I have no pain pathways in my brain now.

[00:20:39] Deb: You're like gliding down the no pain pathways and the more you travel down them, the more automatic they become also. Yeah. That's that is. I am still just, I mean, I'm in awe of this work, even though I am in a hundred percent full belief of it.

[00:20:59] Lauren: Yeah.

[00:20:59] Deb: Because, you know, it's, it, it is the, the human, the human part of it. Right. And so there's a lot of it that we don't obviously control, but I think what's so beautiful about having kind of shepherded you through this process is your willingness to, um, embrace this material and to really apply it to yourself. And, and it's not that you didn't have doubt, you had doubt and you were willing. You know you were skeptical and you were like, let's try it. And so it was both of those together that I think is so, so remarkable. Tell me a little bit about like your approach to like movement and exercise. Before going into the program and a little bit more kind of after it.

[00:21:54] Lauren: Okay. So before I started the program, uh, I had an intense stretching routine that like had to be done every single morning or I was guaranteed to get a migraine. And if I did, not, which I got them anyway, but if I didn't do my stretching routine, it was, you know, stretching my neck and my shoulders and everything. Then, uh, I felt a lot of you know, shame and guilt. And I just thought, well, I obviously like can't take care of myself. I didn't check that box off of, you know, what I'm supposed to be doing in order to like, be living this perfect life to take care of myself. Um, and that was about it. I mean, I did not engage in any other kind of like movement really. Um, and I think it was just because. You know, I didn't see the value in doing anything else. You know, I didn't see the value in investing in myself in that way or doing anything that would be enjoyable. You know, if it wasn't productive in a certain way, then it just didn't seem valuable to me. Um, now I did, he was like midway through the course, I quit stretching, like as soon as we started the course. Uh, it just didn't seem necessary after I learned about the, uh, pain science, you know? Um, but then about halfway through the course, I was like, you know, I think that I really, would want to do like regular yoga. Just like, maybe I would enjoy that, which is a new concept for me.

[00:23:21] And so I did yoga and I was like, wow, I actually just enjoy like the feeling of the stretching of the muscles and everything. And it was, and I was able to like notice how it felt. And it was a completely different experience. You know, before, when I was doing my stretching, which was the form of yoga, I would get like intense symptoms, like numbness throughout. Um, I'd get nauseous, you know, All kinds of like bad symptoms. And you know, now when I do yoga or any other kind of movement, I'm observing my body and how it feels, and there are no bad symptoms. I'm just actually enjoying it. And I've also, you know, since I did not move before, it's not always like the physically easiest thing ever. You know, when I decide I'm going to go for a walk, you know, with my son or, uh, you know, push him in his stroller for like a jog or anything, um, and so it's been really helpful to have this somatic tracking as a tool, you know? And so like, as I'm doing this new brand new movement to me, I kind of am able to apply the course to that as well.

[00:24:27] Like nothing bad is actually happening to me right now. I'm not going to die because I'm like a little tired or my, my feet are doing something new, you know? And so I'm able to know like, I'm number one, I'm not going to die. Like I don't have to stop. And, uh, number two, these symptoms. I can observe them and they can move and I can go on and like, enjoy the walk with my son.

[00:24:49] So now I'm really just doing movement for enjoyment. And also just because now I think it's worthwhile to invest in myself.

[00:24:59]Deb: Is there anything else that you wanna say or add that I didn't cover?

[00:25:04] Lauren: I don't know. I'm just excited for my own progress, but then also, like, I just want everyone, I want to like shout it from the rooftop. I want everybody like, get in here and do this. If you think you're living your life right now, you're not. And like, you know, like you can actually feel things in your life and you're going to be okay and it's actually going to be super enjoyable. Like I just feel like every day I'm becoming more human, you know, and it's just, I feel really lucky to have found the course and to have found you and to really be experiencing my life and my family, you know, finally.

[00:25:42] So I just want everybody to have that. Saying that one thing that I thought of that I think is super helpful about the course material is the way that it's presented. And, you know, it's a way that makes sense to lay people. You know, I'm not a physician. I really don't have any kind of background and you know, like the brain and things like that, and the way it was presented to me, it just was easy. Like, it was very, it was understandable, it was accessible. And so I understood it, but it was also presented, um, like in a way, like in an order that made sense, you know, it was just like every time that I heard something in the course, it was like at the moment that I needed to hear it, you know, and it just slowly like unraveled for me. And it made sense as a whole thing, you know, it wasn't like a, like a doctor coming in and explaining something to me and in like super technical terms. It was, it was user-friendly for sure.

[00:26:34]Deb: I gave you an instruction in the beginning of the course. Yeah, yes. Do you want to share that?

[00:26:43] Lauren: Yeah. So, um, I think it was our very first, uh, you know, session that we had. And I think you could tell, you know, you said something about like there's a link, you know, and a book or something. And I probably had this look in my eyes, like oh, I'm going to order that book and like 20 others. And, you know, I was, I was really interested with pain science anyway. And so, uh, I started to view the course as like another thing that I could accomplish perfectly. And you know, like, I'm going to have all these notes for you on the course, and I'm going to read like 50 books and I'm going to know every little thing about it.

[00:27:18] And, uh, you recognized that right away. And you were like, don't get like, it's not academic. You know, you don't have to get to intense or too crazy with it, you know, I don't remember how you worded it, but I was like, oh, that is definitely what I was about to do. And then a couple of days later I caught myself. Like I was on my phone, like, uh, had like four different, you know, pain science , Dr. Sarno's books in my Amazon cart. And I was like, step away from that, away from the cart, you know? And that helped me a ton because I was about to definitely turn it into like an intellectual exercise that I could just like get an A in.

[00:27:55] Um, and so when you said that, it kind of took me away from that and it made me pay attention to what was happening in my body personally and applying it to my personal life and not making it like, you know, something I would get a grade on. Yeah. Cause I definitely would have done that if you hadn't said that.

[00:28:13] Deb: I asked you to do something hard.

[00:28:17] Lauren: Yeah, I think it was always like, at the very beginning of the week after we'd like have our session, you're like, Okay. Like, here's your assignment, you know, which is always like feeling my feelings or like giving myself self-compassion or something like that, you know, I'm like, okay, sure. I can do that. You know, like three days later I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm dying. And you know, it was always like a process. Like it was still so intense. And then, uh, I was able to like, okay, I need to allow this. Like, that's what we talked about and, and create safety in myself. And then when I was able to do that, I was just able to watch myself go from like intense arousal and emotion to allowance, and then just like coming back down to like normal and, you know, and watching the symptoms recede. So, but it felt very intense at first, for sure. Yeah.

[00:29:08]Deb: Well, good job, like staying curious and riding, riding through it. It's definitely that process.

[00:29:17]Lauren: It was very curious about, you said, like be a lazy detective and that was helpful to me too, because I would have also, um, I would have taken that instruction, like to an extreme as well. I probably would have every single emotion that I'm feeling, I need to like write down and really, you know, investigate why I'm feeling that and everything. But I, you know, took the introduction of like the lazy detective and it took the stakes down, you know, like made it a little less intense for me. And that helped me a ton as well.

[00:29:49] Deb: Yeah. There's just something other than doing it right.

[00:29:54] Lauren: Yes. Yes. And that was new. Yeah. And every time I would feel the emotion come up, it was like, actually exciting for me, you know, even if it was a negative emotion, just because I had resisted feeling any emotion for so long that it was just like, wow, this is totally new. You know, I didn't really remember what it felt like to be, you know, genuinely sad or, you know, actually angry. You know, so it was almost exciting to, I felt like I said, you know, I feel like I'm going from a robot or, you know, someone that's like pretending to be human, to like slowly experiencing like, oh, this is what humans experience.

[00:30:34] This is how humans feel, like people that actually experienced their emotions. This is how they experience life, you know? And I thought that would be a horrible thing, but it turns out it leads to a much richer, you know, genuine life. And pain-free, by the way, that was a bonus. And, you know, he has heard me talk about medicine before the course or something, and he was like looking around in my bag and he's like medicine? I was like, no, I actually don't have any medicine in there. And I don't even know if I have any, and I don't even know if I have any refills. And that is completely a new experience for me, you know, before it was like an absolute panic thing.

[00:31:12] I had to make sure that I had my medication with me at all times, you know? And now it's to the point where like, I know I don't need it. And, you know, it doesn't create any panic for me. So that was kind of shocking to realize.

[00:31:27]Deb: That's amazing. I'm so happy. I never do anything ever again, I will, I feel very satisfied.

[00:31:39] Lauren: You know, I'm like, you know, I've thought about that. I'm like a lot of people they say like, I just want to like, change people's lives, you know? Like, well you have actually like concretely a hundred percent, you know, like really changed my life, changed how I experienced my life. For sure. Yeah.

[00:31:53]Deb: Cool.

[00:31:54] Lauren: You're welcome.

[00:31:55] Deb: Yeah. And that's the thing, like I, you know, I just presented you with some new ideas.

[00:32:02] Lauren: But I wouldn't have found those ideas. You know, that's the thing is like, those ideas are out there, but I wouldn't have found those ideas if I hadn't taken your course. And also it wouldn't have been presented altogether, like in this perfect little package and it wouldn't have been presented like in an order. Like I learned things really, as I needed, as they were coming up for me, it was like, well, then the next slide, like addresses that, you know, everything was there.

[00:32:27] It was like this tool kit that had everything that I needed. And then the one-on-one coaching. It's what made it like concrete, you know, like I had the tools, but I didn't necessarily know how to apply them to me personally. Like I realized some people like, look at all these people who are able to, you know, get rid of their pain, like that's great, you know, and I intellectually understood that going through the materials, but then once we did the coaching, I was, you know, I learned how to apply it to me.

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Ash and Deb chat about faer participation in the original 4 week Fear Brain & Chronic Pain Program. (now 8 weeks)

One of my favorite parts of my chronic pain recovery program is how much of it is about co-creation. Here's Ash and I talking about hopes and fears about enrolling in this course and the personal coaching experience.

Take a listen.

Head on over to YouTube if you want to watch our cute faces on video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWTJAEQXG8I

If you're curious and willing and ready to get started, DM me or email me at paincoachdeb@gmail.com as I have a few spots available right now.

Or sign up for a Curiosity Call on my calendar.
https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Thanks always for listening!

Transcript

[00:00:50]Welcome to Move With Deb, the podcast we're doing episode number 12. And in this episode, I replay an interview that I did with one of my clients, Ash, who went through the original four week pain recovery program. And then we worked together for another four weeks after that. Ash had a lot of benefit, both physiologically and emotionally from going through this program. So I thought this would be a great interview to share, to help other people understand the power of how learning about pain can change your pain experience and also the benefit of doing, one-on-one coaching in this style. So thank you for listening and enjoy this interview between me and Ash.

[00:01:42] Deb: So my first question is why did you sign up for my chronic pain recovery program?

[00:01:50]Ash: It was the right time and I knew that, um, I was, I was ready to, uh, try to address it. With help again. Um, because I know you, and I know you through your activist work and have been following your, your Instagram and seeing your body work and seeing how much it was helping you. Um, you were really generous with sharing pieces of it that made it easy for me to get a sense of what it was going to be.

[00:02:22] Um, and something about the way that you were talking about the mind body connection? Um, I think I was, I was ready to make those connections and have that, that transformative epiphany and, and was looking for that. I was looking for that piece. I could tell that there was something, something else missing in my current understanding and my current approach.

[00:02:48] Deb: How long have you been in back pain?

[00:02:51]Ash: Really the really bad pain, uh, started with an injury about three years ago. Um, but there was already, uh, I was already getting, you know, I would, I would throw my back out or, you know, my back was sore. Um, I was getting that already leading up into the, the injury that really, um, kind of condensed all of it. So, yeah, probably five or six years.

[00:03:23] Deb: That's a long time to be in pain.

[00:03:26] Ash: Yeah.

[00:03:28]Deb: What were you hoping to get out of this program?

[00:03:34]Ash: I mean, the, the easy answer is I wanted to get out of chronic pain, but I think I was actually not even able to hope that that was going to happen when I started. I don't think that that's something that I was hoping to get out of it nearly as much as I have for sure. Um, I was hoping to get, honestly, I think I was hoping to get, uh, at the very least an alternative perspective from the, the medical model explanation that I had gotten thus far.

[00:04:10] And I mean, as you know, I got that and I got pain relief and I got a whole new way of engaging with my, uh, my emotions on a somatic level that I had just never really clicked together, despite being a really like, uh, dramatic and embodied person. Uh, there were some connecting threads that were missing. Um, The question is what I hope to get out of it. I'm answering what I actually got out of it. But, um, it's uh, yeah, I, uh, I hoped for so much less than I ended up getting. I mean, I didn't, I didn't know. I could hope for so much.

[00:04:50]Deb: So what was your experience going through the program materials?

[00:04:59]Ash: I really enjoyed it because it, um, I was able to go at my own pace and you made it very clear that, you know, here are videos that pertain to what we're going to be talking about, but this isn't like required homework. Here's a worksheet, but you don't have to do it. And that was just repeated regularly. Like, whatever I showed up with was fine. Um, and so some weeks, like I devoured all of the videos and then other weeks I got kind of stuck and was like, okay, I've gotten sort of halfway through or whatever. Um, and that was really, really good. Uh, I think also, um, with the things that I know you're already doing to change the structure of it, I think that there will be even more space for that, which is really cool.

[00:05:43] Um, and I'm looking forward to like, possibly doing kind of like, a review the second time around. Um, so, you know, having gone through it once and kind of been like, oh, I have to do the four and four and now I can kind of go back and like catch the pieces that I missed. So that's going to be really nice.

[00:06:00] Deb: How did the one-on-one coaching component, um, influence your life or influence, understanding this material.

[00:06:09] Ash: I appreciated the back and forth between like self guided study and learning and then structured and scaffolded kind of applied methodology with you where we would talk about, um, okay. So here are the things that really caught my interest. Here are the things that that connects with for me. And then the questions and suggestions that you were able to give me. One-on-one, were able to, then I could take that into the next week and be like, okay, so this week, Deb and I talked about, I'm going to, you know, work on doing this, or I'm gonna, you know, focus on this and bring mindfulness to that. And so it was just a, a little anchor to kind of remind me of what it was that I was working on. Um, with again, without any, like, I didn't feel a pressure to, um, Achieve standards with you. It really was just, uh, a shared exploration that we were doing of, you know, you sharing the resources and information with me. And then you curiously coming along with me as I kind of showed you my territory and said like, here's where I've found, you know, on, on my vast and, and fruited estate to put these new, interesting ornaments that you've given me. Um, and here's like kind of how they look with my other stuff. And you, you know, you absolutely came along. I'm like, I'm still kind of miss, like this doesn't work. And we would talk together. This metaphor has gotten very, very elaborate, but like, you know, you would come in and you would, you would sort of help me redecorate you didn't come in with, with like the bulldozer.

[00:07:37]Deb: Nice. And you know, me, I like. I love to work a good metaphor.

[00:07:42] Ash: I like to work until it doesn't work anymore.

[00:07:45] Deb: So what's your like pain, physical experience, like now after being in this program and, and we only did, you were in the initial run, which was only four weeks.

[00:08:03] Ash: Lightning bolt, transformation change, where what had felt like just pretty much constant and really intolerable chronic pain transformed. And it has not, it has not come back in that form. Um, it has, it has changed my relationship with it, I think is the biggest thing that has changed is my ability to commune with my body's signals and sit with them and, and actually be mindful and present and not, uh, catastrophizing or fleeing away from the present moment into some kind of, you know, imaginary space that makes things a lot worse. And the realization of not only, oh, this is applicable to emotional or psychological pain. Because it's a similar skill. Like, no, these are the same skills. Um, and that part is fascinating to me. And it's, it's baffling to me that I got through an entire counseling, psychology training and clinical practicum without finding other people talking about this overtly. When I think more about it, I realized that a lot of people kind of have like the near touch of it, but I haven't seen anybody really link these together and say like, no, this is the same picture.

[00:09:23] Deb: Right, so to go and put it in like a pain scale box, if you have like a pre-program number of pain and like a post-program number of pain, what would your answer be?

[00:09:35]Ash: Yeah, pre-program I was hanging out around, um, around like a seven. Pretty consistently and then periods of of eight or nine. And post-program, I'm hanging out around like a two, you know, uh, again, it's, it's, uh, a piece of it is the shift in my relationship with the signals that are coming in from my body. And. The way that I re I re-examine and take some time to consciously engage in conversation with the pain and ask it some questions about, okay, so there you are. You're sharp, you're dull, you're aching or whatever. Okay. I see you. And I hear you. I'm not going to freak out about you, but I'm not going to withdraw from whatever is, is. Causing you to, to speak up either. Like I'm going to just hold where I am. And that's been really, really interesting cause that that boundary and being able to explore that has been very valuable for me. It, what, what it is given me among many other things is a realization that I am more resilient than I habitually allow myself to believe. I have a higher tolerance for discomfort than I habitually allow myself to believe, and I can be functional through discomfort. Um, it doesn't have to reinforce feelings of helplessness and a weakness. There's a lot of, uh, I discovered that there was a lot of meaning that I was making about the sensation that really doesn't need to be there.

[00:11:28]Deb: Trying to word this without being like, we all wanna, we all want to walk more. We all want to move more. We all want to, you know, achieve these like physical feats. So I'm trying to like word it, not with that assumption. So let me figure out how to say that. Um, I guess, so around physical movement and activity, how do you imagine applying this work? What has shifted for you in your feelings of what's possible for you and maybe what you'd like to invite into your life that you didn't think you could do before?

[00:12:09]Ash: I've noticed myself considering, because my goals around this were not necessarily well weren't at all related to, um, picking up large, new types of movement or, uh, or, uh, embodied exertion, you know, um, however, as I've become more confident and comfortable in.

[00:12:35] My ability to trust my body and, and for it to trust me. And like, we can, we can do more than I thought we could. Uh, I have noticed that I've been thinking about that, like, huh, I wonder if I could figure out how to start running or how to take hikes and not just walks or, or, uh, you know, start doing more intensive bicycling or like, you know, I've just noticed that like, those thoughts have been coming up.

[00:13:05] Um, and not, not as concrete goals, but just as things that feel within the realm of possibility. And don't immediately make me feel shut down and ashamed and sad, which, I mean, whether or not I ever go after any of them, the, the shift in my conceptualization of what I can do with my body. Um, Has been tremendous. And so I think that that is the current shift that I'm really being mindful around is just the shift in perceived possibility

[00:13:44]Deb: You mentioned in that last piece, about having a different reaction to a thought about movement.

[00:13:54] Ash: Yeah.

[00:13:55] Deb: The shift in your perception also sounds like kind of a shift in, um, releasing self judgment or releasing kind of a previous negative, um, experience. You talked about feeling shut down. Is that something you want to can say a little more about,

[00:14:21] Ash: For sure. I think one of the things that, uh, that working through this program with you has helped me confront internally and begin to, uh, kind of make friends with is, um, some pretty, long-term limiting beliefs about what my body can and can't do. Um, and a lot of that has to do with, uh, a lifetime of, of fat-based oppression and, uh, and anti-fat messaging, um. That then when there was an injury and a loss of, you know, a temporary loss of mobility and things, those just became, well, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. And so it just, it just really compounded in on itself where the, uh, the mental and emotional blocks got reinforced into preventing me from being able to see that, you know, this is, this is an imposed limitation. The real benefit for me isn't necessarily that I am going to, uh, you know, suddenly become, uh, a world-class snowboarder or whatever. It's that the thought of that does not feel laden with impossibility and shame. You know, there's, there's potential for that. Uh, if, you know, if I wanted to start figuring out how to do these various physical things, it doesn't, it doesn't feel as emotionally insurmountable now.

[00:15:59]Deb: I know when we work together, we talk about kind of the sensation experience of a thought.

[00:16:05] Ash: Yeah.

[00:16:07] Deb: Right. So when you talk about the shame that you have, when a thought kind of flows by like, oh, I could be, you know, whatever, if my body were different, I could be a snowboarder. Okay, but then there's that somatic experience right of that thought.

[00:16:29] Ash: Yeah.

[00:16:30]Deb: So that's kind of what you're saying has, has shifted.

[00:16:35] Ash: Yeah. Is there's um, with this greater sense of ownership and sovereignty over the sensations of my body and how I engage with them, how I allow those to change my thoughts and feelings. Um, there's, there's a greater, just a sense of physical mastery that I've really never had before.

[00:17:04]Deb: Yeah. Those are the potent words. Tell me more about physical mastery with your thoughts and feelings.

[00:17:14]Ash: I think I've, I've always conceptualized myself based on messaging from the outside. And then also, uh, just, you know, particular kind of proclivities about myself. I, uh, I was a very, um, I was a pretty hyper-sensitive kid, uh, emotionally and physically. And that got reinforced back to me, as a deficit. And so I internalized that these were weaknesses that I had. Um, and something that this program has really helped me see is that I actually have a pretty, I mean, I've been, I've been surviving at chronic pain of like a seven for years. I'm incredibly strong. And very resilient and once the relationship between the signals and my interpretation of them changed, that made space for me to realize that, um, it's within my capacity to tolerate these things,. Which means that I can also, I can tolerate other discomforts. I can, you know, I can push myself in these ways that I had been. I realized kind of over time, just withdrawing from, out of a fear of bad feelings, you know, either physical pain or emotional suffering.

[00:18:38]Deb: So you're telling me that physical pain and emotional suffering are not things that you feel like you need to withdraw from or protect yourself against in the same way.

[00:18:52] Ash: Yeah. Yeah, I don't fear them as much. And that allows me to, uh, you know, to confront them with compassion and curiosity, as opposed to either avoidance or, uh, kind of internalized aggression. Um, And it also affords me the possibility of considering trying things that might invite more of those in. You know, try something a little more emotionally risky, but with a higher reward or, uh, try a new physical activity or, you know, push my, my sense of, you know, like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna try it a little bit harder on this or whatever. And not be, not be as afraid that I won't be able to tolerate whatever sensations result from that. Yeah.

[00:19:45]Deb: Okay. I'm overwhelming myself with, with words in my head. Um, what would you say to somebody who's like, hanging out with my fear, sounds like a really terrible idea.

[00:20:04]Ash: I would say that you're already hanging out with your fear. You know, it it's, it's already present and you're already, you're already engaging with it, even if that engagement is repression and, and denial, you know, but I, I guess maybe think about it in the same way that I was thinking about why I was willing to hang out with my pain.

[00:20:30] Was that it was already, it was already present and nothing else had really helped. And so, you know, I figured at the very least I would be learning more about, uh, the physiological processes of pain. At the very least I would be engaging in, uh, you know, a program of applied self care with a compassionate mentor.

[00:20:58]Um, at the very least, you know, I would have those things and I hoped that other things would emerge and they did.

[00:21:07] Deb: I really, really, really, really appreciate your willingness.

[00:21:11] Ash: Yeah.

[00:21:12] Deb: You know that, I know that it comes from a genuine experience of having gone through this and received a transformative experience. That's based on your desires and terms and interests and your relationship with your body.

[00:21:31] Ash: Yeah.

[00:21:32]Deb: That's not my agenda about what I think you should be doing.

[00:21:36] Ash: No, it's never been. Yeah. It's, it's always felt very, um, very directed by what I, what I brought in, what I'm looking for, for sure.

View Details

Hi everyone, it's episode #11 and I'm working with a new recording program that makes a transcript. Yay for new technology!!!

Always learning something new around here.
Always celebrating learning and moving myself to the place of doing my podcast is fun and easy!

So today's podcast is a sweet and fun conversation over messenger with my friend Eva, who is someone I know from Kara Lowentheil's feminist coaching community The Clutch.

I can't say enough about how this practice of Thought Work and the tools of The Life Coach School have changed my life. And The Clutch is a fantastic container with which to explore and practice these tools. (Not getting paid for this pitch LOL).

If you haven't heard Kara's podcast Unf*ck Your Brain before, I highly recommend listening and putting it in your rotation. It's available where all podcasts are found.

You can also work with me!
I have my 8 week pain recovery program in which I blend in these concepts and tool for self inquiry with pain recovery/neurocircuit retraining. http://debmalkin.com/8-week-pain-recovery-program/

And in the next few months I will be offering longer whole life support coaching packages that are a synthesis of all the applied tools for emotional and physical wellness for life beyond pain, to create a life you're excited to embody. Whether it's work, dating, movement, family how your train your brain (intentionally or not) is the main creator of our experience.

I teach you all the magic that self-friendship and curiosity offers and why attention is your secret untapped superpower. Coming soon. But if you read these notes you're getting the first heads up before anyone. :)

And as always you're invited to chat with me and learn more about how you can learn about pain and how to change your embodied experience of physical and emotional pain and overwhelm by training your mind. -- Book a curiosity call with me and let's chat.

https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb
http://debmalkin.com/

If you want to get a free 6 week trial to The Curable App click this link and sign up. My work and the app blend well together or try this out on your own first. Remember we are finding those moments of no pain to add deposits into our belief bank.
http://curable.com/connect-qr/6023928186667008

Transcript
Move With Deb episode #11

[00:00:50] Deb: Hi, it's the Move With Deb podcast and we're doing episode number 11. We're going to listen to me, read and play a conversation that my friend Eva and I had through Facebook messenger. She is a person that I know through a coaching community, and we've had a number of conversations about pain, and I had shared with her access to the curable app.

[00:01:15]So we talked a little bit in brief conversation about some shoulder pain that she's having and you get to kind of see in real time her processing this information and some of the tools that we share about how to reprocess pain. She gave me permission to share this conversation with you.

[00:01:35] And I thought, well, this was great because I was sitting here today trying to come up with a podcast. I have lots of ideas. And sometimes when I sit down to do them, they don't flow. I'm in the process of becoming a content creator and learning to take ideas out of my head and share them with everyone. And that process is not always so simple for me. So I found myself going down this rabbit hole of research and language, and thinking about Lisa Feldman Barrett's work on emotions and valence and arousal, and I was getting further and further away from what I thought would be helpful.

[00:02:17]And then Eva popped into my messages and we had a brief conversation and I was like, well, if we look at the lifespan of this conversation in this journey, both of being coached by me, and her thinking about pain differently, this conversation kind of illuminates everything. That's what I want to share. So why don't I just share this and be direct rather than trying to be academic? And I don't mean academic in a negative way. Certainly. It's just how I've constructed it in my mind, that there's, this pragmatic lived experience. And then there's this kind of scientific rationale reasoning of why. And these are probably not very helpful distinctions. They're probably very arbitrary.

[00:03:08]As I become a person who understands and explains things and helps people come to their own embodied understanding, I think these distinctions will become less and less bifurcated. But before I was a pain coach, I was a bodyworker. Half the time with my sessions, I wouldn't be talking at all, but my hands were connecting with the client and what they were feeling in their body. And they were relating to me what they were feeling. And so these ideas were all happening at the same time, no concepts, embodiment, the felt sense and experience.

[00:03:46] Now I work through a screen using language, having people read things or watch videos, and then they create their own embodied experience of something, using their mind and their observations about the sensations in their body. Those are the tools that I have available to me. So, I guess I'm in a bit of a transition process in terms of how I work. What I'm always amazed at is how quickly people can change their experience of pain through applying, understanding, awareness, curiosity, emotional allowance, self compassion, and self friendship.

[00:04:31] I will never stop being delighted by this and surprised. Because those tools are available to us, at any time, under any circumstance, in any situation. They are inherently part of our embodied experience. And it's like turning on a light bulb, turning on a light switch. You just have to learn to turn it on. We find the switch that turns on what already exists inside of you. I put my captain obvious Cape on all the time, when I talk about these things in the way I talk about them to highlight the simplicity in this process. Cause sometimes when we are in distress, we think the solution is external. We believe the solution is hard, it's complicated. It doesn't matter how long you've been dealing with something or how long you've been experiencing pain. It is in your body and you're feeling it.

[00:05:34] And you're looking for a solution. You want an answer. The reality is knowing an answer is not the same thing as experiencing a change. And my work is very much about getting to the experience of a change with, or without understanding. The understanding can come later. But to change your pain experience that's in your body. And it doesn't have to be complicated, just may require doing some things in a new way. So I often repeat this idea over and over again, that our self conversation is one of the most important inputs we can tend to in our nervous system.

[00:06:20] Let's listen to Eva and peek into this conversation that we're having about her shoulder pain that originated during weightlifting. Talk briefly about her experience around changing careers and moving into doing art and the intensity around that change in her life. And see if any of these conversations make sense to you.

[00:06:40]Back in February, Eva said that she received the email from curable and want to let me know. And said, thank you. And I said, oh, that's awesome. Enjoy. And let me know how it goes. And then I received a message from her on April 16th, I'm going to play that.

[00:06:58]Eva: So, um, I'm saying hi for three things. First of all, like I've been using Curable, but way after, like, you gave me this six free weeks, um, because I was just like doing anyway to other things and, you know, Even though I had pain, like I was procrastinating. And I started using it and I really like it So, I'll keep you updated about how much, like I, like, I like it.

[00:07:26]Deb: So I had said glad you're loving the app. It's been such a game changer for me. And she said for the app, I have hopes because honestly I'm suffering so much and the physio doesn't help despite trying his best. So I really hope there is another way all the more it is with my right side and I need to draw. Anyway I will tell you more when I dig more into the exercises.

[00:07:51] And then I asked her, do you have anxiety around drawing? And Eva says, yes. I mean, I just transitioned to an artistic career. I need my arm and it hurts. And my response was, it makes sense to have pain show up, when we have fear. Then she writes back, Seriously? I mean, I was injured since last year. It started to heal and now apparently it is some nerves. So I said, what was the injury event? Nerve pain doesn't mean damage. The brain and nervous system communicate through nerves. And she wrote back actually I do power lifting and that happened with bad technique during bench pressing.

[00:08:38] So I asked how long ago was that? She replied 14 months ago. I had tendonitis, but this has gone, only pain triggered by nerves, says the physio. So here is my response back to her. So all pain is created in the brain, whether it's from an injury or not. After an injury heals, which 14 months is plenty of time, those pain neural pathways can still be going because of fear and the expectation or belief that there's something wrong.

[00:09:09] So just like your thoughts can amplify anxiety and those sensations in your body. It can do the same with pain. Your career transition and fear about your arm pain is what's keeping your pain alarm bell ringing.

[00:09:24] Then she wrote just reading this makes me want to cry, just knowing that this can be true and that there is a solution. Thank you for that. I said you're welcome. It is very true. The app is a perfect resource for that. You have thought work as the best tool to help you take care of your mind with the fear that comes up with work. Thought work is a reference to the life coach school process of looking at our thoughts and breaking them down into circumstance, thought, feeling action and result. I call it a cognitive somatic mapping tool, but it's about awareness. It's to help us create awareness how our thoughts drive our feelings, which create our actions, in relationship to any circumstance. So she and I are in that community. And so we have a shared language, so she knew what I was talking about.

[00:10:17] So then I shared with her, my somatic tracking audio that lives on my website. That is my version of Alan Gordon, somatic tracking tool and Alan Gordon of the pain psychology center. So I sent her that link. And it says here's an audio you can do for somatic tracking which is a great exercise to meeting the pain with a sense of safety.

[00:10:42] Her reply is thank you so much with three or maybe four exclamation marks. I can't tell I'm reading this off of my phone. You have no idea how much I appreciate. I'm going to listen to it now. I just listened to it. I find it very soothing. I used to do body scans for meditation, and that feels as good. I was not worried about the pain and side note your voice is so peaceful and soft. Love it. Great job.

[00:11:12] My replies. Thanks!!!! That's with four exclamation marks. So you can use the audio to practice being with the sensations in your arm without fear. Eva applied, okay. I'm going to do that. Thanks. I'll let you know how it goes.

[00:11:28] So here are three audios that I received today. Here's the first one.

[00:11:35] Eva: Hi, Deb I've written to you because I wanted to, I didn't know how it went with the meditation. You're like um, you transferred me and the curable app so far so good. I would even say amazing. The, um, the physio told me, like, since I was having like that, the pain in my shoulder was increasing and, um, he, wasn't helping with the messages on top of being an asshole for other reasons. That's sidejoke. Um, and. Uh, he told me, okay, maybe I need to go and see a surgeon not to get a surgery, you know, but maybe they can do an arthroscan or whatever, you know, like it's, it was starting to get complicated. And, um, that, that freaked me out. Yeah. So I was like, okay, now I've got the message. Like, there is no way, you know, um, I'm letting the pain get over my life and get it more complicated because, you know, I have follow-ups for other things and I was like, no, this is not happening. And you know, like if they can't help me with the pain and it's getting complicated, I'm going to see what I can do for myself. Um, and if it really hurts after trying, then maybe I'll go and see someone, you know, like to see, like I have a tendon problem or something else. And guess what? I really focused, I found about exercises that could help me, more than the ones they gave me. Um, and now the pain is decreasing. So I feel like almost relieved and I'll be, you know, I'll keep working on it. But, um, does this honestly, like a miracle too? I wanted to thank you so much because you know, like, we talked only a little, but you know, being there and giving me the information and letting me know about this has helped me a lot. So, yeah. Thank you.

[00:13:43] Deb: So I wrote back, hooray! I am super happy to hear this and yeah, if that physio isn't helpful, bye bye. She wrote exactly. Actually, he's kind of a big deal for shoulders, like the biggest specialist, but honestly he did not help. Plus he did not take into consideration the fact that I do bodybuilding and there are some specific things to address given the movements I do at the gym. Honestly, he has been an asshole and was always reminding me that I had too much strength, that I was brutal when doing movements during rehab with him. Honestly, there was probably a part of me that didn't heal because I wasn't feeling good and safe. So I texted him that I couldn't come back. Enough with the drama, LOL and I decided to ask for help to you and have my own back.

[00:14:35] And I wrote back, after this long, you have plenty of exercises to do. The main objective is to teach your body that moving is safe and that doing your art is also safe, even with this big transition. So speaking kindly to yourself when you feel fear or pain, is a useful skill to build just like building muscles.

[00:14:55] She wrote back. Yes, absolutely. The thing is what I had in mind before I started seeing him. And he said so many things about how I didn't know how to move, that he knew better, rolling eyes, et cetera. My brain took the wrong info because I chose to trust him. Initially. Thank you for your guidance and words. Right now, it is priceless.

[00:15:17] And I wrote back, well, it is understandable to want to trust him. You were in pain and he is the expert. Now you're moving on and you learned what you needed from him. That relationship can exit your life.

[00:15:30] She wrote back. Exactly. I am happy now. Yes, so much. I have a few long lasting pain, but now I'm going to learn how to live differently.

[00:15:40] I wrote, yeah when we learned to interpret pain differently, we opened the door for it to change.

[00:15:46] That was our little radio drama. I think what's important to say in this. It's not that I'm telling her not to listen to a physio or an expert, the information that he was giving her was a lot of nocebo, was a lot of commentary about all the things that she was doing wrong, all the ways in which her bodybuilding or other work was responsible for her pain. He was treating her like she was noncompliant. No provider should be eye rolling anybody. He did not take this mind, body fear, nervous system piece into consideration. He didn't have any information about her changing her career, the intensity of her concern and fear around changing her career to art and her fear that her pain would mean that she couldn't do it.

[00:16:43] So we didn't have a lot of deep conversation going on in our texts back and forth. What she was able to create was an awareness of her own pain. She found some exercises that she felt like she could do. And she changed the intensity of the sensations in her arm. Her pain is going down and she is willing and curious to think about this pain and these sensations in a new way. She's not in avoidance. And she's not increasing her fear. She is creating empowerment by letting go of a therapeutic relationship that was not working for her, asking for help from me. And if she needs to find other medical help, she can do that. There's a lot of willingness and curiosity in her process now, rather than fear and catastrophizing.

[00:17:42] And the circumstances haven't changed. She's still in a process of changing her career to do art. And she feels very motivated by this process of engaging with her body, going through the sensations with a sense of developing kindness and compassion for herself. So I'm very hopeful that as she embodies this practice around her shoulder, that also it will grow and it will be a part of her self-concept that when we feel sensations, that cause us to stress that we know to decrease our fear is turning the volume down. And that when we feel pain, we can investigate it. We can get help, but there's also that internal process. What is turning the volume up? What is turning the volume down? What is reinforcing conditioned responses in the brain and what is creating prediction errors? How we get from repeating neural pathways to disrupting neural pathways and creating new neural pathways of less pain.

[00:18:50] I hope this was a little bit of an entertaining radio play. I look forward to sharing more. I think next week, I'm going to create a podcast with one of my clients testimonials. I've interviewed three clients so I think I might put those out as I'll be traveling. I think it'll be interesting to hear my clients talk about their experience going through my pain recovery program and the experiences that they created in their bodies and the shift that came from learning some new information about how pain works.

[00:19:25] So always I am here for you to answer questions. And also, if you would like a free trial of the curable app, please feel free to send me a message. If you haven't been signed up for it before, give me your email address, I can add you to my portal, it's very simple. So you give me your email address and I will add you and it will send you an email and then you are entitled to six weeks free of trying the curable app. Which I think is an incredible tool to help get you started in this process of understanding pain in a new way. Thank you everyone. I hope you have a great day. Bye.

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Here's a practice for you if you feel pain when getting up in the morning or when you are getting up from a chair or a couch after sitting for a long time.

There are 3 parts to this:
Visualization
Thought Dump
Relaxed Replacement Thought Repetition

Try this pain brain reprogramming practice.
Let me know how it goes!

What shifts are you noticing?

Here's a link to Dan's Crushing Doubt interview with Hasanna Fletcher - https://youtu.be/ku5M8nG5qYw

You can find links to Dan's podcast and entire world of TMS themed content, more than you can ever consume if you sign up for my email list on debmalkin.com

http://debmalkin.com/
http://debmalkin.com/8-week-pain-recovery-program/

Transcript

[00:00:50] All right, we are recording. We're gonna do this and it's just going to be what it's going to be. Um, I don't know how to make it any better, so I'm not going to worry about it. Hi, it's Deb. And this is the Move With Deb podcast, this is episode number 10. And today I am bringing you a podcast, not only on audio, but also on video, because I wanted to share a practice that is an important part of pain reprocessing.

[00:01:30] And I thought that it would be a cool story to tell. I was on a consult the other day with a new client I'm going to just start working with. And so she was telling me that she read my Instagram post about my move with ease, where I was having pain in the morning, getting up from bed, walking to the bathroom. And then I started using these tools. Okay. She started using what I just described in my Instagram posts, and like in four days she was having a lot less pain. There we go, that is a tool. Let's make this a little bit more formal formalize this practice so that you can then apply it to yourself. And see what happens. I thought that was really cool. It makes a lot of sense. It's again, what Dr. Sarno teaches, which is that we get new information and we apply it. And then we have a new physiological experience. So I'm going to call this one move with ease, a practice for transitions.

[00:02:36]So there are three parts to this practice. One is visualization. Two is a thought dump and three is a relaxed replacement thought repetition, right?

[00:02:54] Relaxed replacement thought repetition. That's one tool. This is for if we have pain, in the morning, getting out of bed, like getting to the bathroom or in transitions, like getting up out of a chair, getting up off the couch.

[00:03:11]I listened to this great interview between two TMS therapist the other day. So one was Dan Ratner on his podcast called Crushing Doubt, which is a really great tool and I recommend listening to his podcast and learning from him. He was interviewing. Hassana Fletcher, who is a longtime TMS therapist and they were talking about aging. And why I loved this podcast is there are a lot of thoughts and beliefs about what goes along with aging, like pain and stiffness.

[00:03:47] Hassana was talking about a conversation she had with Dr. Stracks, who is a TMS physician, and she was talking about, you know, Is this TMS, is this aging what's going on? And he just said, the first hour of the day doesn't count. Don't worry about anything that happens in the first hour of the day. Which kind of sounds like, oh yeah, like, just ignore what's happening in your body.

[00:04:15] But she is a long practiced TMS therapist, so she understood what he was saying. Which was don't get your mind hooked on the sensations in your body when you first get up in the morning. So she applied that concept and then her stiffness went away. Um, not only did it go away apparently like throughout the day, which is great. We want changes throughout the day, but also the sense of stiffness, went away because she wasn't worried about it anymore. So I thought that was really brilliant. I'm really excited to share that idea to just not worry about the first hour of the day. Just give it a pass, you know, lighthearted, relaxed, see how that changes things.

[00:05:01] Um, she thought about her cats and how they stretch in the mornings and if you study Peter Levine or somatic experiencing, isn't that pandiculation and that's the kind of movement and quality of mind, that people bring to movement. So we can take all of these ideas and roll them together. What this is really teaching me is the power of our mind and attention and focus.

[00:05:26] So for this move, with ease practice, with transitions this is, the practice. It starts with visualization. I want you to imagine getting up out of bed, getting up from the chair, and then we're going to see what thoughts arise, what sensations in your body arise.

[00:05:50] Your brain is probably going to offer you lots of thoughts about what's going to happen. Right. This is going to hurt lots of anticipatory pain, a little bit of fear. What are the meanings that we're making? This is good and useful because these are the thoughts that are in your brain that are turning on your alarm system.

[00:06:12] I call this a thought dump. So just like taking the real dump, all humans need to poop, right? To remove the metabolized waste from your body and your brain needs to poop, right? To remove the unhelpful thoughts in your brain, that are setting off your self protection alarm system. We have 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day, they're not all gems. They're not all true stories. We have plenty of evidence of seeing that we have thoughts that are telling us all kinds of things that aren't true. So we're going to practice observing our thoughts without fear without reactivity. I'm calling this a thought dump because when we let our brains poop, we're not in there investigating it. We just want to dump out the thoughts and beliefs. And a belief is just a repeated thought and then flush them down the toilet. You don't want to keep them. Now, what we might want to do is look at them so we can notice themes. You know, look at the poop, casually be like, oh, there's the corn that I ate for dinner last night, but you're not getting in there and being like, all the things I don't want to get stuck with the poop analogy.... You get what I'm saying?

[00:07:42] You want to look for themes, but we're not getting into it. So the themes might be fear around what the pain means. Fear what your body can't do. Thoughts about how you did this to yourself, thoughts comparing yourself about times before you were in pain or what you used to be able to do, or what you did last year, before COVID, although now that's even longer than last year, but what you did before, COVID all the types of physical activities, that you were doing and the caretaking things that you were doing that are not available to you now. These are all thoughts. Even words that a doctor said about you, about your weight, about your body, your ability, your age, those are all inputs into your nervous system. They're all things in your brain, and we want to be able to look at them and then flush them down the toilet.

[00:08:40] When we start to visualize the activity that we're feeling pain in, your brain is going to deliver you all of these messages. You're going to notice them right. Going to notice what these thoughts feel like in your body. Either you think them and you have a feeling. Or you try not to think them, which is avoidance, which also creates a sensation. So right now, what we're trying to do is to create this neutral observer. I call it the lazy detective, going to create the ability to notice and have awareness without reactivity and without judgment.

[00:09:24] And that's a practice. You may not be amazing at it the first time that you do it. That is okay. There's nothing wrong with that. Just learning. And this is the human experience. Our thoughts create our feelings. Our brain works on prediction. And it offers us the experience that we're expecting to have.

[00:09:47] So if we are afraid and we're anticipating lots of pain when we are getting up out of bed, we're going to feel lots of pain and anxiety getting up out of bed. This is the fear pain fear cycle in action. So we want to let ourselves feel the emotions of the thought and let that be okay. We don't have to push any feeling away. And maybe you'll cry and feel things about having that thought, and that's okay. Crying is how we take care of ourselves. Our eyes are designed for crying.

[00:10:27] So we want to break the cycle by offering our brain a new prediction that doesn't set off the alarm. That doesn't create the need for the self protection. So don't worry about why you have self critical thoughts. We all have them. There's nothing wrong with having them. But maybe these thoughts are not useful.

[00:10:50] So after the thought dump, imagine yourself getting up out of bed or getting up out of the chair and moving to your destination with ease. We want to pair this visualization with the three RS, a relaxed, replacement thought, repetition.

[00:11:10] So that's relaxed which is an important quality, right? You want to hang out below the alarm bells from our nervous system. Replacement thought. We're going to offer our mind new thoughts about what's happening in our body. And then repetition, which is just practice, which is just learning.

[00:11:30]When I did this practice to get out of the foot pain that I was having in the mornings, I chose the thought I moved with ease. I chose this because it felt true, except for in the morning when I was having pain. But I could tell that it was true at other times in the day. Other times in the day, I did feel like I moved with ease. So it was a thought that I could believe about myself. And then I wanted to extend this belief, to this time in the morning, because I knew there wasn't anything wrong with my body or with my feet.

[00:12:04] They didn't hurt all the time. And the pain changed throughout the day. The pain changed once I got moving. I had fear in the mornings that something was wrong with my body. I also realized I was telling myself I should be taking a walk and having resistance to it. So the foot pain was kind of like a handy distraction from this internal desire conflict.

[00:12:31] I both wanted to take a walk and I didn't want to take a walk and then my survival self kind of just doesn't like these internal arguments. So the pain made that whole question of how do I go out for a walk moot? Right? Pain took care of that. Oh, well I can't go out for a walk now. I'm having foot pain. b all pain is like that on the nose, but I am pretty good at these conversations with my body.

[00:13:04] So knowing that my pain was caused by my brain's interpretation of neutral nociceptive input. And remember, nociception is just our sensors noticing changes in pressure, temperature and chemicals. So our brain are assessing those changes for danger. So getting out of bed and putting my feet on the floor, it's a big change in pressure.

[00:13:36] When I'm laying in bed, there's nothing touching the bottom of my feet, right. When I put my feet on the floor, that's a change in pressure. And then if my brain is full of fear of what might happen, my brain is full of self critical thoughts, which are poking my internal threat sensors. My brain is evaluating for danger? Well, the danger meter is really, really high at this moment.

[00:14:04] Part of changing the neural pathway pain is to drop the danger meter. So we want to visualize the movement happening without pain. We want to tell ourselves a thought that we can practice and repeat with a sense of safety and relaxation and not force.

[00:14:25] So I picked, I move with ease. Here's some others. This is my mind trying to protect me. This movement is safe. My body is strong and capable. Pick a thought that you can believe about yourself in general. Even if in that moment you don't. But if other times of the day you feel strong and capable use that because it's true.

[00:14:54] Just because something is not a hundred percent true all of the time doesn't mean that that's not true. We are planting a truth seed here. We're watering it and tending it for our brain. We don't want to argue with ourselves. We want to create, the habit of self friendship and faith. There's a little bit of like belief that goes into this process.

[00:15:22] I want you to imagine the movement, think the thought and invite in a neutral or pleasant sensation along with it. So that can be a relaxed smile. That could be a comforting hand on your heart. You can distract yourself a little bit by putting your visual attention on a pet that you love. And smile and feel the love when you are looking at your pet or at a picture that you like or something that you think is beautiful or touch something that feels really good. Right? We're going to invite in a neutral or pleasant sensation to the experience. If you feel like that's something that would be helpful.

[00:16:12] And then you do the action. Get up out of bed. You stand up from the chair. And it's okay to be afraid. We're in the process of changing our neural pathways. It's okay if it doesn't work a hundred percent. Can you feel maybe 1% less pain, 5% less pain. Did you notice 1% more self friendliness or 5% more friendliness?

[00:16:41] We're looking for the changes. We're not looking for it to magically disappear, although that is also a possibility. That can happen, but we're looking for what's different here. So how we practice, with this sense of grace, with a sense of self friendship is what tunes our nervous system to the whole thing. So if the pain moves around, you say, aha! I see you brain. That is a great sign.

[00:17:14]Alan Gordon once told me this and I will never forget it. He once said that I was very high stakes. And that comment was not wrong at all. I was working very, very hard on changing a pain situation, and that comment oriented me to my internal conversation. That I was treating things like they were all or nothing. I was treating something like an emergency. And that was informing the conversation that I was having with my nervous system. So we want to lower the stakes. We want to get curious, get playful, see what happens. Be open to what happens. One of my clients just told me that their thought that they're practicing is "see what happens."

[00:18:00] Which is like a really new thought and a really new viewpoint for them to have. And that includes all of this self friendship, all of this cultivating curiosity and kindness and openness. Because we can't control everything. So we want to cultivate a way of being with ourselves, even when things are not a hundred percent, the way we want them.

[00:18:25]We're practicing a new skill and we're bound to get it wrong. We're bound to not be good at it. And we're bound to fail over and over again. We want to meet all of that with kindness. We want to notice the thoughts and feelings that arise when it works and the thoughts and feelings that arise when it doesn't work.

[00:18:47] So again, this move with ease transitions includes three elements. Visualizing the movement. The thought dump that comes, when we think about doing the activity, maybe it's like four, then we visualize again, and then we include the relaxed replacement thought repetition, and then we take the action. I hope any of this is helpful for you.

[00:19:16] Please let me know how it goes and let's be on our own sides as we are learning to change our pain experience.

[00:19:26] And if you want more information about working with me, you can always hop on a curiosity call and I share these things on Instagram. If you want to like, send me a post or a message about your experience, I really want to hear how this works for you. Thank you so much for listening. I'm really excited to be sharing these tips and techniques with you. Thank you so much. Bye.

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(first off, I totally apologize for all the extra noise in the beginning of the podcast, apparently I was shuffling things around and wasn't away how freaking loud that was going to be. I know now, and will adjust for next time)

Fear

Maybe even reading that word your body gave you a reaction....

In this podcast I discuss the embodiment of fear & avoidance and how to the messy path forward changes your embodied experience which changes your brain and your pain!

I discuss the idea of The Window of Tolerance - here's a great post that explains the concept. https://www.attachment-and-trauma-treatment-centre-for-healing.com/blogs/understanding-and-working-with-the-window-of-tolerance

If you want I'm sure there's mountains of writing you can read and fall into the research hole and leave your body behind.

But alas. It'll be there when you pick your head up again. :) Ask me how I know.

So I hope you enjoy listening to me discussing my process around moving through fear to flow and how I change my experience of showing up for the work I want to create for myself and my clients through teaching and learning of the new science around pain.

http://debmalkin.com/
http://debmalkin.com/8-week-pain-recovery-program/

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hi everyone. It's Deb and the Move With Deb podcast. This is episode number nine, and I want to talk about avoidance and fear brain. So last week my podcast was late. I also was avoiding editing it. So it was avoiding making the podcast and then I made it and then I was avoiding editing it. And it was interesting experience cause usually I'm like, whoa, what's wrong.

[00:01:25] And I'm judging myself and I'm like you said, you wanted to make a podcast and now you aren't doing it. But there was a new part of my brain that was like, let's watch what's happening. This is so fascinating. I was watching myself in avoidance. And I was like starting to slip into some, old habits and like ruminating compulsion habits that I have, oftentimes it's around researching things, gaining knowledge.

[00:02:00] And so I am thinking about buying a car. I also like to look at Zillow and that, I don't know if you've seen that. Saturday night live sketch about Zillow, but boy is that on the money. So I was watching myself slip into some compulsion around researching cars and watching endless YouTube videos, hopping around reading about cars, asking people about cars, and while there's nothing wrong with that, I was doing those activities during times when I would have ordinarily been working on my podcast and it felt like a compulsion. I say it that way because I felt compelled to want to research and solve this problem. And that was me trying to find certainty. You know, which makes sense.

[00:02:56] One, I don't have a car. And now I'm thinking about life after the pandemic right after my vaccinations. And so getting a car is something that I'm going to be doing. And because I have a lot of perfectionism habits and tendencies, but also there's part of me that's just like, I want to know what kind of car I want. So there's a lot of different things happening in that process. You know, like I, I put parameters on myself, like I'm not allowed to make a mistake. Then I'm engaging in research compulsions to protect myself from having a feeling. But what it was actually really doing was strengthening that habit, strengthening the habit of obsessively researching things, trying to find the right answer as a way of protecting myself from the belief that, if I didn't have the right answer, it would be the wrong answer. I also enjoy researching things. So there was delight and curiosity in that process and certainly that felt good.

[00:04:06] Whereas editing my podcast did not feel good. Because I was afraid of some of the content that I was sharing and I didn't want to deal with that fear. So I was like, let me go do something that feels more fun. Right? My brain is like really trying to help me out. This week I had to make space though for hearing the fears and meeting my afraid self with compassion and not judgment. And recognizing I was making a choice to do an activity because I had this belief, that feeling good was also going to protect me. Part of my curiosity and meeting myself with compassion was also about not buying into the fact that this compulsion will keep me safe. That that idea is kind of a charade.

[00:04:55] Watching all of this happen, as I was not editing my podcast and not sharing it and not getting it done on time, I was able to look under the hood of fear. And that is part of the fear desolving practice. The unfear process is to see the words and the symbols in my brain that is strung together to keep me safe. Seeing that for just what it is, that it's a brain habit that I've developed over the years, that really has given me a lot of results that I have benefited from.

[00:05:33] But there's the dark side of it, which is it's also a place that my brain likes to go when it doesn't want to deal with something. So it's a protection strategy. I was able to see kind of it all play out together from this bird's-eye view, watching my brain go through its safety pattern making habits, all because I didn't want to edit my podcast.

[00:06:03] Part of this pain recovery process is seeing what our body mind has as its protection system. Right? So my brain was doing this activity, protecting me from having a negative thought or a feeling, and that amplified the vibration of the experience. It just, isn't a surprise that that's what was happening when I think about what I was doing. When I think about my podcast as a whole, I kind of have to laugh because today I've decided that my new place of recording it is in the closet. That's also kind of how I feel about having this podcast is that I'm recording it, but I'm not really sharing it and kind of hiding it. I'm sharing it but with caveats, like, oh, I made this podcast, but I kind of don't think it's any good, but like also here you go, um, listen to it, but like don't tell me what you think about it. You know, I am not taking the next steps to like, make it more professional, like by adding show notes or even planning episodes ahead of time or getting music or putting it up on apple podcasts (update, I got the music and the transcript updated LOL). And there's a lot that can be said about why things are "professional", I'm using air quotes. Why professionalism can also be gatekeeping. There's a lot to be said about all of that as well.

[00:07:31] Often in this podcast what I am talking about is how concepts, thoughts, and feelings, inputs into my nervous system create my experience. So certainly other people's ideas of what a podcast is, other people's ideas of professionalism, those are all interrelated into my thoughts and feelings about my podcast. Maybe how I compare it to other people's podcasts, but I will say I'm old enough and kind of free enough to not really give a shit.

[00:08:07] And there's still a lot of unpacking to do. So this is part of that unpacking process. I have a lot of perfectionist tendencies. This is the messy part of moving through them. So this podcast terrifies me. Making this podcast is scary. It's also a hundred percent optional. Nobody is forcing me to make it and it scares me. I am in fear and I am also moving at my own pace. And I am noticing my brain shenanigans with extreme love and self compassion. And it's like when I talk to my clients and maybe their goal is to walk to the end of the driveway or up the block or up a hill. And that goal that they have has meaning to them.

[00:09:01] And they also put a lot of unexamined internal pressure on themselves with that goal. Sometimes when we have a goal and we feel pressure and maybe we also judge the goal or judge ourselves having this goal, then not doing the goal is a relief. But then we don't move through the fear and we certainly don't achieve the goal.

[00:09:25]So my client yesterday described it, like putting blinders on a horse, like the horse is going to do its horse thing, right? So it's like your brain, your brain is going to do its brain thing. The brain makes patterns and builds neural pathways and delivers you the experience that you are expecting.

[00:09:44] So the blinders are telling us what to focus on and prioritize. And we do that with goals and I love goals. There's probably a lot of pluses and minuses about loving goals. We could go into that. Maybe I'll go into that on another podcast. Why do we want things? I think human beings in general want things. That's another podcast.

[00:10:04] I wanted to create this podcast. I wanted to help translate the work that I'm doing with my clients and myself to you. Not everybody is going to be my client. Not everybody wants to work with me. Not everybody wants to have a coach. Maybe they're in the beginning of even cracking open the idea that pain is a message from the brain. I wanted to be able to take what I'm doing in my work and share it. Podcasts are a great way to share. I am watching people change their pain experience daily with their mind and it's not fake. Like they are telling me "I had pain, now I have no pain" or "I had pain now I have less pain".

[00:10:48] I'm very overwhelmed actually by saying these words, because I recognize that they sound too good to be true, even though they are a hundred percent true. And so there's this part of me I feel protective of myself. I feel protective of other people. I don't want other people to get hurt. Nothing that I'm saying is all or nothing. I'm certainly not saying don't go to the doctor, you know, be reckless. So my fear can be so overwhelming to me that I shut down.

[00:11:21] If you know anything about polyvagal theory, it's like total dorsal freeze time for me. My brain looks for any distraction. Time slows down. My vision narrows, maybe my head feels tight. My neck starts to hurt and words feel very far away. And this is my brain protecting me. So thank you brain. I can spend all my time focused on this body response to fear. And that's kind of the horse with the blinders. What I am looking at becomes the predictive coding of the brain and also just where my attention is.

[00:11:58]I can also watch it shift back to being ventral vagal, to being resourced. I can watch my body change my experience back almost as quickly as it goes into shutdown. Sometimes maybe with like a little hangover. If I have a headache, maybe I'll have a little residuallyness of a headache. But this shift through these different states is something that I have now repeatedly observed in my own human experience. Shifting away from that freeze, back into more of a resource place comes, from the words and the thoughts and the symbols that I bring into my field of vision. What I put into that field between one blinder and the other blinder.

[00:12:47]And so I'll ask myself questions. Like what results have I already created that I'm proud of? I've created a program that's helping people get out of pain regardless of the type of pain they're in, whether it's migraines, emotional overwhelm, back pain, knee pain, pain when moving or pain when sitting. I did this not being a neuroscientist. I did this, not knowing all the neuroanatomy and not really caring beyond the basics. I did this as a middle-aged fat person. I did this as a human being, who's just canceled their certification from yet another program, I think this makes four. I did this as someone who once ran her dream business and had to close it because I failed at making it sustainable, and then I lived in shame about that for about a decade. And I did this as a human being who's moved through intensely debilitating anxiety this year, along with all of the pandemic bullshit and loss.

[00:13:43]So what I do know is how letting it be messy is my path forward through fear. I have succeeded in making nine weeks of this podcast in a row. Not nailing my deadline all the time, still kind of in secret in the closet. Hiding it, but also not hiding it. Every day I feel avoidant and I am changing my relationship with myself when I meet my avoidant self with exquisite self-love and using my lazy detective. The avoidance is my guide when I feel it arise. And I know that I am on the right path.

[00:14:22] The path through barf club, the path through changing my neural pathways about fear, about learning and perfectionism. When I have finished arriving at podcast is exciting and easy. I will have developed confidence and changed my embodied experience of doing this new thing. My body will no longer feel podcast equals scary, and then serve me the embodied experience of fear or terror.

[00:14:50]I can develop thoughts. I want to think on purpose about this podcast or my work. I have client testimonies and emails and thank yous that tell me that my teaching them how to meet avoidance and fear with love has forever changed their mind and their body. That gives me the belief that one thought one sentence, one idea can change someone's life.

[00:15:13] And Dr. Sarno did that for me and for thousands of people. There is a phrase called "a book cure" on purpose. Which doesn't mean if you don't get a book cure, you failed. It's just the fact that reading a book can change your life is proof of this concept. So I learned after decades of living in my body, absorbing all the messages of what having a fat aging body should feel like, even after becoming a body worker, even after learning biomechanics. And having my own strong sense of resistance to anti-fat messaging. I still believed that the body was truly delivering me messages that what I was feeling in my body was coming from my body and that it was only changeable within my body. And then Dr. Sarno and The Curable App changed my pain overnight.

[00:16:08]My knee pain disappeared with the application of new information. Without changing my body. And I will never unknow that. So while it's my job to come up with a million ways to explain what I know and to personalize it. Anybody who chooses to work with me, I will help you feel this and experience this in your body so that you will know what that feels like for you.

[00:16:34] I named my program, fear brain and chronic pain for a reason. Because the more I teach, the more I see that fear in the body and the mind is not a problem. It is not the truth, but it is a roadmap. Fear is a normal human experience. It often creates uncomfortable physical and emotional sensations. And we want to avoid them. But avoidance doesn't make fear go away. It pushes it down and like a string instrument that increases the amplification and that vibration fills more and more and more of us.

[00:17:12] This work isn't really, even about dealing with the content of what we are afraid of, but it is about how to be willing, curious, and full of love when meeting our fear brain. I'm excited to record today's podcast. And you might hear that in my voice. I also wrote all this shit down, which is a place that I had been wanting to get to. Today it kind of just happened easily. So I'm excited to record this podcast because today I'm taking another step towards moving out of this fear.

[00:17:49] I can feel myself wanting to be more brave and transparent about sharing my podcast. My brain is starting to think about how to record things ahead of time and solutions are coming more easily. I removed the physical and emotional block of fear and creativity naturally flows. And like a dam, I don't have to blow up the fear to get flow, to start flowing. Even one tiny shift that lets the smallest stream of flow in is enough. That is a good place to start.

[00:18:26] In my program I talk about this idea called the window of tolerance. We want to start within our window of tolerance and continue to expand it. That's our body and minds ability and capacity to manage our allostatic load. Maybe I will post a link to an article that I use in my program about the window of tolerance. You don't have to know a lot about it just know that it exists.

[00:18:55] So self friendship has a feeling in my body and it's one that I want to bring with me to work. Perfectionism has another feeling in my body. And it's one that often has me feeling like I am dangling off a cliff. Not much work or imagination goes on there. When you're dangling off a cliff in that fear place, of course your body and your mind, and your creativity are all smaller, more narrow, focused on surviving. What is important to understand is I don't need to change my circumstances to move from one vagal state to another. I just have to begin to understand that my thoughts and my feelings are inputs into this body mind system.

[00:19:48] That self friendship has one feeling in my body. Perfectionism has another feeling in my body. And I can practice the invitation for the one that is opening me up to creativity. That's a lot of this work. So if you want to know how to work with me, please visit my website, which is just Debmalkin.com.

[00:20:11] I am currently offering an eight week pain recovery program. I teach you the pain science education. And I can point you to all of the research you could ever want, but I encourage all you A students to not read it right now. And we explore your own embodied map. How to apply these tools of awareness, somatic tracking, building new neural pathways, exploring graded exposure and goal setting around movement and life.

[00:20:38]This is about the life that you want to live of your choosing, moving through fear and avoidance with self compassion and self friendship is in fact, the fastest way to change your pain. I hope you have an amazing day. Thank you for listening to the Move With Deb podcast. Soon to be in all the places where you can find podcasts.

View Details

Using a fun and interesting experiment we can play with the volume and intensity of physical sensations thereby revealing their neural plastic nature.

I discuss one part of a process from Dr. Schubiner called pressure testing in which we test and then retrain the brain to experience an innocuous sensation in a new way. Please when doing anything take care of yourself, as it can be a little trippy to feel the sensations you experience in your body shift around and change when you weren't expecting it.

In it I talk about a video that I took about some dancing I did in front of a mirror which I'll be posting on my Instagram - @movewithdeb

Sorry this is 2 days late. I'll be talking about why it was late in the next episode. Everyday is an interesting day in exploring the relationship between thoughts, feelings, & sensations around here.

It feels really great to share this with you. I hope that any or all of it is helpful in any way.

http://debmalkin.com/
http://debmalkin.com/8-week-pain-recovery-program/

I've had the privilege of studying with Dr. Schubiner and watching his profound and effective work. You can learn more about him here. He is seeing patients in the state of Michigan and also I believe he is training other Doctors to treat persistent pain in this same fashion. https://www.unlearnyourpain.com/

Transcript

[00:00:50]Hi, it's Deb with Move With Deb the podcast. Today is episode number eight. We're going to get back to the body and talk about pain a little bit today. So one of the things I'd like to explore is this idea of neuroplastic pain and sensitivity, hypersensitivity of the brain and how hypersensitivity to a sensation or somatic experience is the proof of neuroplastic pain.

[00:01:25]We learned from Dr. Howard Schubiner, who wrote the book, Unlearn Your Pain, and also wrote the clinical book, Hidden From View, and he is one of the leading mind body pain physicians in the country. And he's an extraordinary teacher. I want to just talk about one method, which is pressure testing. So it gets at this idea of hypersensitivity, light, touch and pain. One of the methods that he teaches us to help people understand the idea of neuroplastic pain or neurocircuit pain, is this idea of discomfort with light touch. So if you find that there's discomfort with very light touch in an area of the body that's hypersensitivity, right?

[00:02:18] Because we can see that there's no tissue damage. Let's think of a part of the body where there's no open wound. There's no bruise. Maybe you have sensitivity, in your trapezius are the side of your leg, like it band or areas around your knee, like any place that you feel like there's tenderness with light touch.

[00:02:43] And there's something going on if you get discomfort, it's the brain that's reacting to the very light touch and there's no tissue damage here. There's nothing physically wrong with the area. You are applying very light pressure to the skin and you're having a sensitive or hypersensitive feeling of discomfort or pain. And so the next step of exploring this idea would be to place your finger or your hand lightly on that spot, and then close your eyes and imagine pressure being applied to that place.

[00:03:26] You might experience a few things, have you close your eyes and just place your hand very, very lightly on that spot and not pushing, but just imagine pressure being applied. You may have four different reactions come up. So you may have some pain or some level of discomfort arise. You might experience tension or anxiety. You might experience emotion like sadness or anger, or you might not experience anything at all.

[00:04:02] We just want to notice. Noticing is the conversation that's already happening in your body, between your brain and the area of your body in which you are feeling a sensation. When we train the mind to notice without fear that is part of rewiring neuroplastic pain. As we go through this process, I want you to notice, and in the noticing we're looking for what's coming up as I'm lightly touching on an area of my skin where I've felt discomfort? And then I'm thinking about applying pressure what's arising? Pain, or discomfort, tension, or anxiety an emotion, or is nothing happening? If pain or discomfort come up, that's more evidence of brain induced pain. There's nothing wrong here. You're not pressing on the tissue. You're just imagining pressing on the tissue and your brain is delivering you an intensity of sensation. And this pain is due to neural circuits and it's not dangerous.

[00:05:22]So you want to tell your brain, this is not dangerous. I am not afraid. Sometimes when we have pain related to hypersensitivity, that increases our fear because we think, oh my God, nothing is happening, I'm now afraid of very light touch or this breeze or this tag on my shirt. And the hypersensitivity alone can be very scary, but all that's happening is that a neurocircuit is being fired and the volume is turned up.

[00:05:59]The way to work with it is to breathe calmly. Watch the discomfort that you're having without fear, because all discomfort is, is a feeling is a sensation. And as you attend to the discomfort without fear, usually it changes right? We want to tell ourselves that we're okay, that we're safe, that what's happening in your body is just a neurocircuit in your mind.

[00:06:26]We want to attend to this sensation and breathe and let ourselves know that we're safe and that you're not in danger. And then when it subsides, you can close your eyes again and imagine having pressure exerted on the same place. And then see what that sensation feels like. Oftentimes the sensation or the intensity will be less.

[00:06:52] Or it might even be gone altogether. And you can just repeat this until the pain changes. So the sensation and the reactivity goes down. What's important to do is to notice with a sense of peace, with a sense of calm, with a sense of knowing that you're okay.

[00:07:15]You want to let go of the messages that other people have told us about our bodies, about what's happening on the inside. Let go of these ideas of what's causing pain. The brain turns up the volume on sensation, or it can turn down the volume on sensation. Volume control is fear.

[00:07:36] As you're doing this kind of checking in, imagining pressure, paying attention to the sensations that arise in the area when you are imagining pushing on the tissue. We also want to explore what's the opposite of fear? Safety, joy, and ease. As the sensation that you're experiencing changes, that becomes the proof that this is a neuroplastic pain. So part of that next step you can do is to find the sensation of joy and ease. Maybe with a light smile. A smile tunes our inner sense of joy, it connects to our polyvagal nerve. And can imagine pressing this spot, right, we're still imagining it. Imagining, pressing the spot with joy and ease, connect to the happiness that you feel when you tell yourself that there's nothing wrong. When you feel the intensity decrease in the sensation, maybe it feels warm, maybe it feels tingly. Maybe as the fear subsides, something feels different and the feeling different can be very joyful. Because there's nothing wrong. So you can say some affirmations, like I'm safe, I'm not in danger, there is nothing wrong with me. And imagine pressing on that spot with joy and ease and happiness that this touch is safe and will feel good.

[00:09:23] I invite you to smile, can just be a light, little relaxed, smile, a smile at the wonder of the relationship between your mind and the sensation that you're feeling in your body. And then the next step would be to actually apply pressure to the spot with this idea there's nothing wrong with you knowing that you're fine. That there's no tissue damage. That you can feel calm and happy and oftentimes you'll feel a change in the sensation. And that's a change in your neural circuit, right? That's all the proof that we need that there's no damage going on in your body. That hypersensitivity is related to threat and self protection, and that we don't have to be afraid what's happening in our bodies.

[00:10:19] And maybe when you're doing this activity and you're imagining, pressing on an area of your body, maybe you'll feel some anxiety come up, the fear of having pain, the fear of the intensity of a sensation. And again, we want to say to our brain, look at the intensity of the sensation that I'm feeling. I'm not even pressing on my tissue. You feel the volume gets turned up, but there's nothing happening that proves that it's neurocircuit pain. And so it's normal for the anxiety to come. It's normal for the pain to be turned up. That's what your brain has been doing habitually. It's serving you what it's expecting to feel, but by observing that even with very light touch, your brain can turn the volume up. You can also make this observation and say I'm safe. I'm not in danger. I'm okay. I see you brain. You can even say thank you for keeping me safe. Thank you for letting me know that you think there's something wrong, but I know that there's not.

[00:11:33]And if you have an anxiety or a feeling or a sensation or a fear, it's okay to feel that. We want to create the ability to feel as a safe experience in our mind body system. So you can just allow yourself to feel the anxiety or to feel the feeling, whatever it is, sadness, anger. It's just an emotion. It's just a sensation in your body. You can ask yourself, how can I make this safe for me? How can I make feeling this transitory feeling okay while you're imagining pressing on that spot?

[00:12:14] The important thing is when we notice, we want to bring this lighthearted curiosity with us. And if you don't know what that means, you'll learn it over time. Just play with it. Crack open the relationship between the fear and the sensation that's happening in your body.

[00:12:33] And so it's an invitation to learn how to notice and how we notice. We want to bring a light quality, brings some joy and ease. I talk a lot about celebrating how important it is to celebrate, noticing, even if what we are noticing is an unpleasant emotion, is an emotion that feels hard or difficult or challenging. Noticing is worth celebrating.

[00:13:00] How we notice delight, curiosity, ease, self friendship with the idea that this is part of healing neuroplastic pain. So we just keep doing this exercise of lightly touching, imagining pressure, giving our mind body messages of safety. And as you touch into an area, if there's no sensation, when you want to imagine pressing this spot with joy and ease. Connecting again to these affirmations that I'm safe. I'm not in danger. There's nothing wrong with me.

[00:13:41] And then imagine pressing on the spot with joy and ease and happiness, creating that somatic smile that tones your polyvagal nerve, helps you connect with a sense of safety. And then when you apply pressure, light pressure, see what the sensation feels like. Feels less, or that there's no sensation when you're pressing lightly. You have just changed your neural pathway, your neural circuit experience. We've turned off the fear response and we've created safety. Sometimes I like to do is if this is very difficult, if you feel a lot of pain and discomfort and fear also like to invite you to use your other senses to pay attention to something that feels pleasant or neutral, that makes you smile.

[00:14:34] So you can do this activity while petting an animal, while wrapped up in a warm blanket, right? Create that idea of safety and okayness. Use your other senses to connect with something that gives you a feeling of pleasure, joy, happiness, peace. We're going to pair these experiences together to retrain the mind, and then we can do the same activity with firm pressure.

[00:15:05] So if there's an increase in pain with firm pressure to the spot in the body, we want to do the same activity. You want to lightly place your finger or your hand on that spot. Or have somebody else do it for you, if it's a place that you can't reach. Close your eyes and imagine pressure being placed on this spot.

[00:15:25] And again, some things might occur pain or discomfort might arise, tension or anxiety might come up, an emotion, such as sadness or anger or nothing can happen. Whatever happens is normal. What we want to do is to begin to notice. Create the ability to attend to these sensations with curiosity and self-kindness. Notice the words that might arise when you're thinking about it.

[00:15:59] I would say a lot of the times for myself, when I go to touch an area of my body, like on my thighs that have cellulite and lipedema, my mind might also deliver to me messages about these fat cells: they cause inflammation, inflammation, causes pain, or I might have thoughts about how I don't like my thighs. I don't like my cellulite. These are also thoughts that come up for me when I touch in or look at certain parts of my body. I might immediately leap to thinking about how heavy my legs are when I walk.

[00:16:41] But these are all part of the neurocircuit sensitivity system, our thoughts, other people's words. Those are inputs into how we evaluate, how we tune our mind to the sensations, to the expectations, that our brain is going to deliver to us about what we should be feeling. So when we do this activity by imagining pain, or increased sensation. We are going to imagine light or firm pressure, and then notice what happens.

[00:17:20] Notice the words that arise in your mind. Notice the sensations that happen in your body when you're imagining firm pressure or even light pressure. And I'd like you to celebrate, noticing. Greet that area with a sense of calm and a sense of peace, knowing that there's nothing wrong other than your brain delivering you messages that it's expecting to experience because that's what it's experienced before.

[00:17:56] So in rewiring our neural pathways, even saying that makes it sound complicated, like rewiring a light bulb. And it's not that complicated because it's all happening really fast, super duper fast, super computer. The no pain neural pathway, the lower sensitivity pathway already is there to be taken by your brain. It's not like we need to create a new neural pathway, that's never existed before. But we're just asking the brain to pay attention in a new way, and then it will experience your body in a new way. We'll experience this relationship between that part of your body without fear. And that's going to turn the volume down.

[00:18:49]And you know, it's not going to be perfect. It might be really hard to do. You might come up with some feelings or some thoughts that you don't want to have. We certainly walk around with a lot of thoughts about our bodies that don't serve us and have been given to us by lots of people, even well-meaning people. I want to invite you create your own experience of attending to your body with a sense of peace, comfort, and delight.

[00:19:20]It's going to be very hard to not feel hypersensitive pain, if when you look in the mirror and you look at your thighs and the only thoughts that you deliver to yourself are I hate them. So one way to work with that is to begin to get to neutral, say, this is a human body. This is what a thigh looks like. You can even go on Instagram and look at some other fabulous fat bodies with lipedema or thighs with cellulite, and think, you know, look at their thighs, look at their beauty, look at who they are, how they move in their bodies, how unbothered it is possible to be. The more rejecting we are of ourselves, of a part of our body, of something we don't like about ourselves, it's going to make sense that our brain is very hyper reactive to a sensation, if we also believe that what's happening in your body creates that sensation. Now I'm not saying that it's all in your mind. I mean, everything's all in our mind. Our entire perception of reality is in our mind.

[00:20:43] Our brain and our nervous system are interpreting everything that's happening and delivering to us its opinion about what's going on. We live out a prediction of the brain because that is what is biologically conservative. Not because it's an asshole, but because we attune our brain to pay attention and then deliver us this output.

[00:21:11] And we create these autopilot, this conditioned response, the brain does what we ask it to do because the brain is busy trying to keep you alive. Right. It's managing all of the body's systems. It takes too much energy to take in an experience, evaluate it super fast and spit out exactly what's happening.

[00:21:37] So it just bases itself on what you've experienced in the past. And when we encode the sense of fear, threat, overwhelm to a sensation, that's what our brain delivers to us. So this kind of example, when we touch in lightly and imagine increased pressure, and then if we feel this sensation that we feel, when we have pressure, then we can tell ourselves, oh, this is my brain.

[00:22:08] We create the evidence for ourselves that neuroplastic pain is real. And then we can begin to attend to it, delivering our nervous system and our brain messages of safety. And we change the embodied experience that we're having.

[00:22:27]And I want to say that being human involves pain and sensation. There are things in life that happen that are painful. So I also want to invite to you. To let go of the idea that we're supposed to not be in pain all the time. Pain, like an emotion is a temporary sensory experience. It comes in and it goes away. And it may come back and it can go away again. What we notice when we're feeling something that gives us all of the clues that we need to begin to change the messages and the way we relate to ourselves in pain. So in all of this, I don't even really want you to take my words as fact, this is my invitation for you to experiment, to begin to question some of the messages that you've always believed about your body.

[00:23:36] I made a video, I haven't posted it on Instagram, but I think I will in relationship to this podcast, in which I was looking at my legs in the mirror and I was doing very simple dance movement, this just happened spontaneously, I did not plan it. It was not an experiment I did on purpose. But because I now think about my body in this way that I understand that my thoughts and my feelings affect my sensation, my experience of my body. I had this kind of aha moment.

[00:24:11] I was looking in the mirror and I was doing these little dance moves because I've been roller skating. So when I'm not roller skating, which is most of the time. I am doing some little bits of movement that are helping create some mobility, some kind of freedom in movement that will support my skating.

[00:24:34] So if you see my Instagram, you'll see that I do balance board work that I'll use a feet up trainer where I'll do some inversions and work on core strength. Then maybe I just roll around on the floor. I like to have a lot of joy and play in my movement. Because that means I have joy in play in my life. I was doing this movement in which I was like moving my feet back and forth, rotating my femur and trying to get some movement variability in my hips, but through a lens of play and dance. And I was looking at my legs and I was having some thoughts about them. And I could tell that the sensation in my body was kind of sharp, that my legs felt heavy, that they did not feel like they moved well.

[00:25:28]And I thought, wow, that's really interesting. I wonder if this would feel different, if when I looked at my legs in the mirror, I looked at them with eyes of love. And so I started looking at my legs and feeling all of the love and affection that I have for myself that I have for my fat body. I started thinking about how lovely my legs are, how soft they are. I just started sending love to that reflection of myself in the mirror. And it wasn't even that I had to like my legs or even think that they were attractive, but that I loved my legs because they are me. And because I love me. The way that I even just looked at myself, I tried to fill that up with that sense of a somatic smile, just to greet myself as a friend.

[00:26:21] The fun part about doing that in a mirror is because you are looking at essentially what is another person, even though it's the reflection of you. And I think this COVID experience has kind of attuned my mind to look at a reflection of myself in a different way. Right, because we look at ourselves on zoom or we look at ourselves in the camera, or we look at ourselves in a mirror.

[00:26:50] I look different in all of these places. My overall sense of who I am, changes, has expanded. I'm no longer just looking in a mirror, seeing a reflection of myself and then just judging it, whether I like what I'm wearing, do I like my hair? That's so often what happens when we look in a mirror, we're looking to see if we like what we see. If we are okay to go outside. If our makeup is okay. If our hair is okay. We are training our brain to look at ourselves and judge. Are we okay? Are we not okay? Whatever the hell that means.

[00:27:37] I was looking at myself in the mirror. I am greeting myself like a friend. I am checking out those sexy, meaty thighs. I am saying you are magnificent. And then I begin to dance my like dorky, ridiculous, I'm moving my femurs dance. I am getting in movement variability, and I'm enjoying myself dance. And the sensation was completely different. My legs did not feel heavy. Everything moved with ease and yeah, maybe it was because two minutes previously I had been moving and I warmed myself up, but I don't know that that's the entire part of the story because this time when I moved, I had that inner smile.

[00:28:28] I was smiling at myself in the mirror, like a friend. And we were dancing together and we were enjoying this moment of life together. My thighs were not a problem. That how much I weigh was not a problem. My lipedema was not a problem. And then my physical experience of doing that movement was different, was lighter, was less noticeable, that there was more ease, more delight in the movement. And the more delight I felt, the more delight I felt. The more the light I felt, the more I wanted to move. I invite you to try that. We don't need to place our understanding of what's happening to our bodies pain or no pain, inflammation, or no inflammation, fat cells, or no fat cells.

[00:29:26] We can create our own understanding, our own relationship inside of our bodies. I create these own experiments for myself. I'm excited to share them with you. I help my clients bridge this gap for themselves all the time. And I watched them change their pain experience quickly. And it's hard only in that it is new, but what I tell them and what I remind myself is.

[00:29:52] Everything I know how to do. I have learned up until this point. I am in a constant state of learning. Learning is part of the human experience. Our brain learns something and then automates it. So let's learn no pain. Let's learn less reactivity. Let's learn new neural pathways. Let's learn new condition responses.

[00:30:22] Between our eyes, the information that we have gathered in our minds of thoughts and the sensations that we feel in our body, there's ways that you can change your physiological experience, without changing your physiology. And I invite you to hop on a curiosity call with me if any of this makes sense to you.

[00:30:46] If you know that your pain comes and goes. That it changes positions, that sometimes it's lower and sometimes it's more intense ,all of this is evidence of neuroplastic pain. I can help you practice the methods by which you change your embodied experience of sensation. And it's not hard. It might just be new and I'm happy to be your guide.

[00:31:14] So maybe you listen to this again. And try this experiment. See how it feels and feel free to report back what you discovered. Thanks for listening. Catch you next week. Bye.

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Listen up! In this episode I share why this collective experiment with managing the symptoms of the vaccine are the same exact tools I teach around changing the experience of pain.

Be your own scientist in this great mind/body laboratory!

I share some client stories about their vaccine prep and navigating unpleasant sensations, including #barfclub and other incidents with nausea!

http://debmalkin.com/
http://debmalkin.com/8-week-pain-recovery-program/

Transcript

Ep7

[00:00:50] Hi everyone. It's Deb with Move With Deb, the podcast, and we are doing episode number seven. We're going to talk about the vaccine for COVID and how you can use this vaccination experience as a mini mind body lab. And I'm saying this because having a collective experience of managing our fear and anxiety in ways that we normally do on our own, but we're kind of doing collectively. It's so fascinating to watch people manage their physiological symptoms that are arising from getting a shot and usually people are getting one shot and then a second shot. We're all sharing and talking about what you could expect to be happening in your body. And then I'm watching people use that information and then applying that knowledge and literally changing their own physiological experiences based on the thoughts that they're putting into their mind and then the feelings that they are managing about what is happening in their bodies.

[00:02:16]And this is amazing because it is a microcosm of actually what we do all of the time, around fear, around pain and around various experiences in our bodies. But those, we don't have a collective experience that helps us tell how we should think and feel about them in a way that is positive, showing us that our bodies are normal, that they are healing, that they are operating as designed that there is nothing wrong, that these sensations are temporary and will abate in a short time. And even if you are feeling something that feels negative, that also doesn't mean there's something permanently wrong with you or that needs fixing.

[00:03:10]So this vaccine micro moment is kind of an amazing laboratory. I want to invite you to think about whether you've gotten the vaccine already. What thoughts and feelings were you having about what you were going to experience after being vaccinated? What were the activities that then you chose to do with that knowledge? And then what were the results of your experience?

[00:03:43] I watched lots of people talk about having fevers, aches, and pains in their bodies, headaches, nausea, vomiting. Very unpleasant experiences, but they were also relaxed. Some people were even excited, because they could match their physiological experience with this idea, this thought in their mind, that this is my immune system working as designed because that is the desired outcome from receiving this vaccine, even sore arms, you know, and sometimes you get an experience that is less than what you were expecting. Yay. We get to celebrate that's a party and sometimes you get an experience, that is different than what you were expecting. But I'm watching people on the internet talk about their experience and not catastrophizing.

[00:04:43]Not having the fear that these sensations mean that there's something wrong with them or that they're going to last forever. Those are often things I hear people talk about when they discuss pain and the fear that they are experiencing around pain and anxiety.

[00:05:03] I'm going to, share with you some, thoughts that I heard people talking about. And one person that I know I had coached them about getting the vaccine. And we were talking about how to manage your mind and your body around whatever may occur. So some of the thoughts that they brought into their experience was this is my immune system working. Oh, okay we thought this might happen, this is what it feels like to be inoculated against a deadly disease. And then they described, remember to sit with themselves and being self-loving when they were having some very intense experiences. I think they were having a fever and a lot of aches and pains. So they said to me, "I remember to sit with myself and be self-loving. And it was kind of a big deflating poof of relaxation, where I just melted into the sensations and let it happen."

[00:06:04] So what we're talking about is the lowering of the reactivity, the lowering of the resistance, changing the physiological experience. So I was talking to another client, not about the vaccine, but about a moment of nausea they experienced. And they met is nausea experience with a lot of curious awareness about the sensations. And then they told me this story about how they met these sensations. They could feel this kind of wave of nausea come on. And they were like, huh, let me see, let me apply these tools, this curious awareness tool and just narrate what they were feeling in their body.

[00:06:47] And they kept telling their mind that they were safe. That they were okay no matter what happened. And so they would just name the sensations as they arose with kind of a lightheartedness. They were like, oh, this is an interesting sensation in my throat. Now my mouth is beginning to fill up with some extra saliva. Oh, how curious. I'm going to walk over to the bathroom because the sink is where I would spit out extra saliva. So they, they narrated that they walked over to the sink in a very relaxed manner that they were not concerned, but they were also like, okay, well, if I'm over near a sink, if I am going to throw up, this will be a good place to do it, but they didn't go to the toilet.

[00:07:28] They chose to stay over to the sink because they were just meeting their sensations as they arose. They were like, well , my stomach is making some sounds. My mouth is filling with fluid. They went on to describe with relaxed curiosity, a few more sensations, and then it all settled down and went away. They spit out the extra saliva. That sense of, wow, this just went away. That the mind did not create any fear, the practicing of this neutral, relaxed, curious, even lighthearted, slightly humorous awareness changed the body's experience of what was happening.

[00:08:13] We do this in my coaching community a lot. There's this concept called barf club. And it cracks me up all the time, because we talk about when you meet something that makes you scared, it's this idea that you're on the right path. So oftentimes people will post hashtag barf club with lots of excitement, lots of emojis, lots of exclamation marks because yes, that sensation of doing something out of your comfort zone is now the indicator that you're on the right path. That, whatever it is that you're doing, that you're afraid of, whether it's making a video, whether it's making the offer to work with people, whether it's producing a podcast like this one, which often makes me feel like I'm in barf club.

[00:09:06] I sometimes feel like I'm the president of barf club, even though I didn't make up that term. But even for me, the approach to doing things that make me feel nervous, or give me thoughts about perfectionism or how I'm doing something wrong, which then I feel in my body with particular sensations, none of that is a problem. If I don't think it's a problem. And it's so easy to reframe that sensation from being unpleasant to being desired.

[00:09:45] Same thing when we are on coaching calls, my coach Kara often explains. "Yeah. It's okay. When you are getting coached on zoom, you are going to have a deer in the headlights experience. Your brain might go offline a little bit. You're not going to remember this so I definitely recommend reviewing our coaching call and it's okay." And every person who gets coached, we all watch everybody go through it.

[00:10:15] This is why watching other people get coached is often amazing because your brain is not the one going offline. So you can be present and be aware, but when you're getting coached, sometimes you just get that deer in the headlights experience. But now that we're told that this is normal, that this is to be expected, that this is like a part of the ride that we want to be taking, then it's not a problem. And that led me to, wow, okay. So other people have this experience where their brain goes offline. Maybe that's not a problem. I definitely feel like my brain goes offline a lot. And I used to think, wow, that must be that there's something wrong with me. But what I'm understanding is like, no, that's just a part of my brain. That's a part of my physiological experience. When I experience a certain amount of overwhelm. My brain just takes a little bit of a vacation, not entirely. And the less I freak out about it, the softer the experience is, the more I can be present, the more I can come back and be aware. I think I'll talk more about that in a future podcast, because I think that deserves its own conversation.

[00:11:36]Here's some more things from my friend who was talking about managing their mind while post vaccine. So they said "I'm still feeling a bit tired and physically sensitive today trying to allow those sensations to just be", they said, "my brain's go to can sometimes be quote, this will never get better quote, but I tell it that yes, brain, it will. It has every time so far." And they said that they have a tendency to be mean to themselves when they don't feel well. And we talked about how interesting it was that being self-loving made a deflating poof of relaxation happen.

[00:12:21]So there was the brain's tendency to think a thought about a sensation. When you think the thought this will never get better, you're going to have a physiological experience of that thought. When they had the thought to sit with themselves and be self-loving they experienced that sense of relaxation, the deflating poof of relaxation, as they described it, where they just melted into the sensations and let them happen.

[00:12:54] That is the physiological experience of being self-loving, of meeting themselves with tenderness, and self-love and allowance of the experiences that they were having in that moment. So they met the physiological experience with self-love and compassion and relaxation happened in their body. Interesting.

[00:13:20] Then we talked about, yes. Oftentimes, we create a conditioned response of having a sensation we don't want. Then we have a serious of thoughts. They are used to thinking mean thoughts about themselves when they don't feel well. They are used to thinking this will never get better. And repeating that thought creates an experience in their body.

[00:13:44] And it was interesting because they talked about, well, I just have this tendency to be mean to myself when I'm not feeling well. And I hear this from a lot of people and I'm certainly had it myself. And in some ways I think being mean to ourselves must serve some kind of function since so many of us do it.

[00:14:02] And it's certainly a concept that gets reinforced by wellness culture by healthism by capitalism. But also maybe there is some biological function, maybe the don't stand out safety feature misfiring, maybe there is some ways, some kind of a collectivist need to work together to be unified. So if we think of this as the don't stand out safety feature of our nervous system, we can think about maybe that safety feature as misfiring.

[00:14:40] It's important to not judge ourselves for what's an adaptive behavior. And for me, it's a very useful thought to think of this as an automated brain habit. That brains are just going to brain, helps keep me out of the intensity of shame, the intensity of continuing to blame myself for my brain operating under it's conditioned responses.

[00:15:07] And it also helps me realize the ease with which I can rewire my brain and create a new condition response. It might take effort, but a conditioned response is just a thought repeated. It's just a thought and a sensation repeated over time. So it helps me to be able to see and understand changes and why learning and rewiring the brain are the same. It releases me from the story that I'm broken and unfixable in any kind of way. Cause that story makes me feel depressed, hopeless, or pissed off. So this worldview helps me feel like I am okay, and that I can change it if I want. And then I can learn how to interpret the sensations that are happening in my body in ways that are valuable to me.

[00:16:01] So using this vaccine mini moment as kind of a mind body laboratory for being able to practice changing our physiological responses to the sensations that arise in our body. Because our thoughts about our immune experience in getting a vaccine, you can have a variety of different thoughts about it.

[00:16:27] What I'm watching is people think thoughts on purpose about receiving the vaccine that are changing their physiological experiences that they're having around what's happening in their bodies, headaches, nausea, fevers, body aches, mild joint pain, all kinds of physiological experiences that are arising in the moment are also passing through.

[00:16:56] Nobody is repeating the message. Something's wrong with me. This is going to last forever. What is happening in my body? This is a mystery. I don't understand what's going on. There must be something wrong. I can't live like this. No. This vaccine mini moment is like, bring it on. This is my immune system working. I know that I'm not going to feel well and that's okay. How can I prepare for this moment of not feeling well, knowing that it is temporary and it will pass? How can I be prepared to have the human experience in which there are times where I don't feel well. There are times when I have a headache. There are times when the sensation of wanting to vomit shows up in my body.

[00:17:45] Just like my client's story, about meeting the sensation with light-hearted curiosity and watching it change. Our bodies are going to feel things they're full of sensors. We are one gigantic sensory system, but how we relate to the sensations that arise in our body, which include our thoughts and our feelings, that is up to us in a lot of ways. We are the ones who have the ability to turn up the fear volume, or to turn down the fear volume.

[00:18:19] This vaccine moment can be a really beautiful experience with which to practice. Cause we have a lot of collective knowledge about what it is that you're going to feel, and then your beliefs and expectations about what is happening in your body. And we can even extend that idea to what happens when you're feeling unwell and you Google your experience.

[00:18:48]Does Googling help you feel calm, relaxed? Like these sensations that you're experiencing in your body are temporary. Does it wake up curiosity and lightheartedness with which you greet the sensations in your body and welcome and allow them to be there as a part of the human experience? Where do you feel fear, panic, worry? Does research lead you to more research, lead you to more research, lead you to catastrophizing, lead you down the road to fear and a lot of future casting about what this might mean for you. Not only now, but in the future. And they say this just to remind you that your thoughts and feelings are part of that volume control, play a large part in the interpretation of the sensations that we're experiencing in our bodies.

[00:19:46]I would like to invite you to use this moment about the vaccine to begin to explore with curiosity and friendliness your experience in your body, because what you experience with turning up or turning down your reactivity to these experiences in your body and receiving the vaccine are the identical tools that I teach my clients to do in my pain recovery program. And then I have learned from the work of Dr. Sarno on the work of the curable app, the work with Dr. Schubiner and Charlie Merrill. These are all the same tools that I use with my clients. I help them map their, cognitive and somatic experiences, and we figure out what are our sneaky thoughts? We create our lazy detective to help us witness and create awareness with neutrality and a sense of self loving and sense of self compassion. What my friend described as meeting themselves with self compassion, invited a sensation of relaxation into their body.

[00:20:55] So as we learn to drive this cognitive somatic embodied experience, we can create change very quickly. That's the gift of learning how all of this interplays and how fear and our thoughts are part of the amplification process of our sensory experience. That's how we rewire pain. That's how we reprogram ourselves out of overwhelm, out of the sensations of anxiety, it's all the same work. So if you can create that shift and change in your own body, through getting a vaccine and holding your own hand through having an immune response. You can do this work at any point with mind body pain, with neuroplastic pain, with various diseases or illnesses like fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, all different types of mind, body stress illnesses, migraines , IBS. There's a long list of Mind body related illnesses on the PPDA website. And I will make sure to link to that in the podcast notes. And the PPDA is the psychophysiological disorders association. And so that's my podcast for this week. I hope at you bring some curiosity and self-love and always self friendship to your mind body experience.

[00:22:31] And if you ever want to work with me or get on a curiosity call, if this is work that sounds interesting to you, but you're not quite sure how to take yourself through it, I'm here to help. You can go on my website, debmalkin.com and there'll be a link to book a call and then we'll have a chat and I'll tell you about what it is that we could do together.

[00:22:56] Thanks a lot.

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This week I share some concepts that I blend into my pain recovery program which I call cognitive-somatic mapping. I discussed the experience of The Felt Sense in last week's episode.

Cognitive Fusion is a concept from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy that helps people see that their thoughts are just sentences in their mind.

Hey! That's the same concept I work with in regards to using "the model" a life coaching tool I learned from Kara Lowentheil from Unf*ck Your Brain and the main life coaching methods from The Life Coach School. BTW, I'm starting my certification there next month! Cannot wait! Totally terrified! Fuck yeah feelings!

Here's the links to these three resources:
https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/what-is-cognitive-fusion/

http://eightfoldcounseling.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Cognitive-Fusion-Explained.pdf

http://unfuckyourbrain.com/

And my website - debmalkin.com
To book a curiosity call - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hi everyone. It's Deb with Move With Deb the podcast. Thank you for joining me here today. I'm going to talk a little bit about this concept from psychology, from acceptance and commitment therapy, called cognitive fusion and the opposite, which is cognitive defusion. So I want to share some ideas around this because when we're talking about changing our experience with pain, oftentimes what we are talking about is it tending to the sensations in our body, through the lens of safety to borrow a line from Alan Gordon, from the Pain Psychology Center.

[00:01:36] So to do that, we have to start to understand and untangle some of our thinking, because thoughts create a sensation in our body. Thoughts and feelings are inputs into our safety system. Just as much as sensations from the body and all of our other senses. So looking at cognitive fusion is a great way to begin to explore the thinking input into our body mind system.

[00:02:12] So I'm going to read from this article, from a website called eightfoldcounseling.com and it's just a very handy primer on cognitive fusion. "So it refers to the human tendency to become entangled with thoughts as a result of a strong belief in their literal content. In other words, we listen to and believe what our minds tell us. Of course, buying into thoughts isn't always problematic. When your mind tells you how to balance your checkbook or drive your car safely, listening may be adaptive. What happens when your mind says that you are boring or unattractive? Fusion with these kinds of thoughts will probably result in attempts to avoid experiences you associate with these thoughts.

[00:03:00] For instance, you might avoid social or romantic interactions, even if being close with others is very important to you. In this way cognitive fusion pulls us away from living in alignment with our values." So I'm going to pause here and jump into, say cognitive fusion includes thoughts that are not ours.

[00:03:25] The thoughts that we think are oftentimes words that are handed to us from the culture, including predominantly white heterosexual, patriarchal, Christian, diet culture, weight stigma, medical providers, right? So, oftentimes our choices of what we think are not thoughts that we would even choose to think.

[00:03:54] So there's a lot of being able to look at and demystify and disentangle ourselves from you can call it propaganda. You can call it bias. So part of the work that we do is explore how some of these thoughts become entangled in our beliefs. Especially if we have marginalized bodies, especially if we have had to grow through a process of resistance to dominant culture.

[00:04:28] I think it becomes very important to be able to explore our relationship, to the thoughts that we think about our bodies, about ourselves, about our worth and value. Now I'm just reading this article. I am not an acceptance and commitment therapist. My work involves a lot of cognitive and somatic mapping.

[00:04:53] We begin to language and separate their experiences between our thoughts and our sensations in our bodies. So this work is an important foundational piece, from both doctors and therapists who are working in the TMS field. I find my tools from The Life Coach School to overlap this very well so I like to share this from this point of view.

[00:05:19] I am not saying this is the one way, but what I like about this as it helps give you some framework for exploring the idea that our thoughts are just sentences in our head. "Cognitive fusion is most likely to arise across six cognitive domains, rules, reasons, judgments past, future, and self rules. Rule govern thinking often consists of should, must, ought and if then language. If you think if I'm in therapy, then it must mean I'm crazy. I should be more normal. If people know how messed up I really am, then they will never accept me. Fusion with rule govern thinking, equates to inflexibility, which inevitably results in suffering.

[00:06:11] Reasons. Reason, govern thinking typically consists of excuses for why change is impossible. You might have thoughts such as I don't have the willpower to change. I'm not smart enough. Strong enough, capable enough. I'm too lazy, ill, unlucky. Or my craving, anxiety, depression, et cetera, is too strong to battle. Fusion with reason govern thinking holds you back from making meaningful changes, even when those changes are in line with important values

[00:06:45] Judgments. Usually with judgments can pose a problem whether evaluations are negative, like I'm so ugly or this anxiety is unbearable. Or positive, for example, consider someone who puts friends, colleagues, family members, or helping professionals up on a pedestal and is chronically disappointed when they do not live up to expectations.

[00:07:10] Past and future. Fusion with the past or future can involve both unpleasant and pleasant content. Fusion would negative memories wishing to recapture positive experiences from the past, getting hooked by fears about the future or wishing for bright ahead. All of these forms of fusion pull you out of the present moment.

[00:07:31] Sometimes this process serves as a cognitive form of avoiding experience. Although this may produce mild temporary relief in the longterm. It only results in suffering. Ultimately like all types of fusion. It tends to pull you away from the things that are most important to you. If, for example, you're getting hooked by thoughts, like the last time I interviewed for a job, it was a total disaster. The next time is bound to be the same. You are likely to avoid a future job interview even if career development is a meaningful life pursuit for you.

[00:08:06] And Self. Thoughts about the self are stories that you tell that make up your sense of identity. They typically begin with, I am. And in ACT they are referred to as the conceptualized self, this type of fusion leads you to be driven by stories you have about and yourself. Example, I am the kind of person who's guarded rather than by your values. I want to be an open and vulnerable partner.

[00:08:33] So cognitive defusion is the process by which you change the relationship with your thoughts by stepping back and simply witnessing their presence."

[00:08:43] So this is Deb talking about that. So changing the relationship with your thoughts, stepping back and simply witnessing their presence is one of the main things we do when we're starting to approach our pain, anxiety, and emotional overwhelm, the responses of our body, to the various inputs that are coming into our nervous system.

[00:09:08] That's why I created the lazy detective tool. We want some place to go while we're having these thoughts. Now we have a character in our mind who is holding that space of stepping back and simply witnessing their presence. We are practicing with our mind, the ability to witness without judgment and without a sense of danger. And maybe with some flare and theatricality.

[00:09:37] "So when you diffuse, you disentangle from your self-talk and observed cognitions as entities separate from yourself as just words. This allows you to look at your thoughts rather than from them."

[00:09:51] So you want to observe your thoughts. You don't want to live inside of them because if you have. This is me talking. If you have 60- 80,000 thoughts a day, um, first off, you're only really noticing the ones that are like pinging your threat attention, or really captivating, or maybe kind of bizarre, like you're not actually paying attention to all of those thoughts. So let's be real our body mind system is like not really delivering us an equal playing field of all the thoughts that we can think about ourselves.

[00:10:26] So if we have a hundred thoughts a day about how we're a dirt bag and how nobody loves us. But we have 10 thoughts a day about like, oh my God, my hair looks awesome. I'm kind of, yeah, great person. I'm really good at my job. Like you're not paying attention to those thoughts. You're really paying attention to these terrible thoughts that we think about ourselves. And then when we take those thoughts seriously, then we train our brain to pay attention, even more to them.

[00:10:59] Going back to the article. "For instance, if you have the thought presenting at a professional conference is too scary, my colleagues will think I'm an incompetent fraud. Then you can probably see that fusion with this thought is likely to result in avoidance of professional presentations.

[00:11:17] While this avoidance would certainly reduce anxiety in the short term, it would also mean missing out on an important professional opportunity and the anxiety would persist in the longterm. What if instead, you simply witness what the mind says in much the same way you would watch a screen saver scroll across your computer.

[00:11:40] Imagine how your behavior might be different. If you choose to see this thought as simply some words that may or may not be true. Defusion creates a little wiggle room to make value choices. For example, if buying into the thought about presenting at a professional conference causes you to avoid professional presentations, then simply observing the thought gives you the space to make a different choice. Importantly, this does not mean that thought disappears. It simply means that you are making the choice not to be driven by its content. Thus, you are free to continue moving in directions that are important to you. Perhaps, for example, disseminating your expert knowledge to your colleagues. Defusion exercises fall into two broad categories, stepping back and observing the content of the mind and showing language for what it is. A verbal production of sounds and syllables."

[00:12:36] In this other article on a website called habits for wellbeing, they quote from Dr. Harris's book ACT Made Simple, in which he says, "in a state of cognitive fusion we're Velcroed, fused, or attached to the thoughts and or beliefs we can be so caught up in them, like on automatic pilot that we forget we're just thinking a bit like in the movie Groundhog day. Harris indicates in a state of fusion of thought can seem like the absolute truth, a command you have to obey or a rule you have to follow. Something that's happening right here and now, even though it's about the past or the future, something very important that requires all of your attention, something you won't let go of, even if it worsens your life and a threat you need to get rid of as soon as possible."

[00:13:31]I wanted to share those ideas because from a danger threat, embodiment viewpoint, all of those thoughts create a reaction in the body. When you have a thought that your system is reacting to like a threat you need to get rid of as soon as possible, your threat system will become activated. Those hormones will course through your body. Cortisol, adrenaline, your fight and flight system will come online, but it's because of a thought. Oftentimes when we're looking at pain, we build a lot of cognitive fusion around the pain itself. We also create a lot of commands or rules for us to follow for our bodies to feel okay. So I see people creating a sense of physical okayness in having an ever increasing limited availability of movement.

[00:14:43] Like I can only sit in a certain chair or I can't sit for a long period of time or I can't walk for more than five minutes. And those are real physical events happening in your body, but they're happening because you are having a thought about the fear of the pain, which then becomes a trigger for the brain to turn up the volume on what can be some very neutral nociception.

[00:15:18] So the fear creates the pain that you were afraid of experiencing. And there's lots of ways that the work that we do together can go about helping you see what is cognitive fusion. What's fear based thinking. What is your nervous system's misinterpretation of nociceptive input, and then delivering that to you as the nociceptive projection, as the brain's projection of what it's expecting to experience, and then you experienced the pain.

[00:15:56] That is oftentimes what's happening when we're feeling pain. It's not actually a true story about the state of your tissues or any tissue damage happening on the inside of your body. Especially if this is years after an injury, we can begin to believe that the tissues have healed. What is not healed is the neural pathway delivering the brain's expectation of a certain nociceptive experience.

[00:16:32] And with this work, we go through the cognitive fusion. We start to diffuse them. We start to make thoughts themselves, be less dangerous to think. And certainly if you're living in a marginalized body, if you are living with pain and disability, there are threats from the culture to your body. Let's say you were told by a doctor 10 years ago, that if you didn't lose weight, you would end up in a wheelchair or you would lose your ability to walk.

[00:17:08] That's an input into your nervous system. That can become a thought that you become cognitively fused with, a threat that you need to get rid of as soon as possible, because if you think that thought your belief is that it will come true or that it is true, especially if it's delivered to you by a medical professional.

[00:17:31] So a lot of times I have clients tell me, I can't think this. It is unbearable to feel this. And we're not even talking about the pain that they're experiencing. Oftentimes we're talking about the fear of a thought, the fear of a belief. And I think the most important thing to understand in this work is that a thought is just a sentence in your mind, it is not a belief. And no matter who delivers you a thought about your body, it does not mean that it's one that you need to just take into yourself and believe. I certainly had thoughts that were delivered to me about my body from my own family and took me a very long time to learn how to not believe something.

[00:18:24] And when you're doing the work of not believing or disbelieving, that also can have its own level of threat, it's own sense of being unsafe. When you receive a message or a belief from another human being, especially one that you either rely on or care about. It can be very distressing to have a different belief about yourself and your brain might want to spend a lot of time arguing. I called it with a client, going to debate club.

[00:19:05] And even going to debate club can become an activity, a cognitive activity that looks like we're taking care of ourselves. But when it becomes a conditioned response of where our brain goes, where we train our system to go ,that kind of leaves our body. That then drives up the threat level, even though we're doing it because we're trying to defend ourselves because we're trying to believe something that other people is telling us is not true about our own immutable worth and value as a human being in the body that you're in, but that need to fight and defend yourself reinforces the fear, the pain, the distress signal that is happening on the inside of your body, that's being detected by your safety system. So what if we just decided that we were valuable, that that was an unshakable truth about us?

[00:20:08] What if we just decided that some things are not up for discussion and that other people are entitled to their opinion. Those are their thoughts in their head creating sensations in their body, and that we are allowed to believe what we want to believe about ourselves. Now, I know it's easy to say that, but that is the good first place to start begin to observe our cognitive fusion and begin the process of cognitive defusion and it doesn't have to be painful.

[00:20:40] We don't have to have other people be wrong for us to be right. We don't have to have other people agree with us, for us to believe something new and different. Every day I thank being queer for this understanding of looking at how we have brought a broader understanding of love, of gender, of the full and richness of human diversity.

[00:21:12] And there are still people who don't agree that there are more than two genders, don't agree that people of the same gender should be allowed to get married. And somebody else's belief or opinion, certainly can structurally have a lot of effect on you, but also we can decide that we have immutable worth and value that we don't actually need to go to debate club all the time.

[00:21:41] We can begin our own process of cognitive defusion. We can begin our own process of de-escalating, the threat level of our own thoughts and feelings and other inputs into our body. That part of our work in creating safety in ourselves is finding our own wholeness, finding the unshakeable belief in our own beauty and magnificence in our own exquisite humanity.

[00:22:15] Recognizing that being fully human requires us to feel things that are pleasant, neutral, and unpleasant. Those are the outputs of our nervous system, of our body mind system. We take in all of these inputs, thoughts, feelings, sensations, nociceptive input, inputs from information on the inside of our body, the outside of our body, all gets processed by the nervous system. And evaluated, gets matched with experiences of the past because biologically that's metabolically conservative. It's kind of how the brain works because otherwise it would take a lot of fuel for the brain to be like actually analyzing things in real time.

[00:23:10]So sometimes we'll match a sensation or a thought that you have today to something that happened when you were in seventh grade and your body's going to respond to that. Right? Maybe we call that a trigger. It's a trigger only because the brain has not replaced that predictive code with something else.

[00:23:33] When we replace that predictive code with new nociceptive experience, with new information, with a new neural pathway to travel down, that becomes the new prediction. So when we experience the sensation of fear or panic arise in us, we do not need to believe that we are in danger in this moment. We can set up a system by which we're actually then able to feel that sensation of fear and panic, and then say, am I in danger, not as a way of telling yourself that you're wrong for having that experience, but it's your check engine light. It's saying this sensation matches this other sensation that I had back at a time where I was very scared, that I was very upset. Our body is doing some time travel, but we don't have to time travel to take that moment of, oh, I'm having a thought and feeling the sensation in my body, that's telling me that something is dangerous.

[00:24:48] We can say, what is my checklist for danger? And look at what's happening around us right now. Not believe the thought or the feeling, just believe in cognitive fusion. It's just the brain matching an experience, cause that's what the brain does, cause that's how the body mind system operates and maintains allostasis.

[00:25:16]We want to understand biologically what is happening for our own benefit. We don't want to think that the car is going to drive off the road, every time we take a turn on a corner where we can't see the road, right? We don't want to slam on the brakes every single time we have an experience that matches an experience that we did not like, that was from the past. But that's just the brain trying to help us. That's just the body mind system operating as designed. So we can begin to build a new conditioned response based on our current observations and our values.

[00:26:00] And we can begin to recode our body's experience by accurately evaluating our own physical capability. So when we look at pain and tissue damage, if you're having pain that moves around, if your knee pain comes and goes, if there's enough holes poked into the theory of your pain, let's also just look at the possibility that this pain is being driven by neural circuits being fired, because that's what the brain does.

[00:26:33] I will leave you with a little story. I was having terrible knee pain on my left knee, which is the knee that I had arthroscopic surgery on to repair my meniscus 10 years ago. So that meniscus is gone, at least in that one part. And I was getting on my balance board and I've been doing some swimming. I got on my balance board and it's purposefully unstable, it's a balanced board. There's a lot of random movement that I have to contend with and it is a little scary. And this little one part of my knee would light up when I would get on the balance board. Now it didn't hurt before the balance board, it would hurt on the balance board.

[00:27:20] It would go through this process of hurting. I would use my somatic tracking tools, my other mind body tools, and I would keep balance boarding through the pain because I knew that I wasn't doing anything that was damaging the tissue. And on occasion, the pain was very intense and then it would always calm down.

[00:27:43]What I observed was I didn't have this pain afterwards. I didn't have the pain ongoing at different times during the day. I had it pretty much when I got on the balance board. And then also I would get it when it got in the pool and I would do like a frog kick. So it, this similar kind of bending movement, there was something about bending my knees in this particular way that, that triggered my brain to make this pain.

[00:28:13] It was the identical pain that I had when I was recovering from surgery. While I was swimming, I would also use these same somatic tracking tools, leaning into pleasant sensations, telling my brain that I was well and that nothing was being damaged. I knew that I was swimming very gently. There was really nothing to be concerned about. And I also just decided, I decided that I was okay and it took a while and I actually ended up talking to Dr. Stracks about it briefly. And he confirmed that this was mind body pain. This was just a pain that was being kicked up. I have some thoughts about roller skating, have some reoccurring fears that like the activities that I do, I hurt myself.

[00:29:09] There's this anticipatory experience in my brain, like waiting for the next pain to arise that then I will have to deal with. And then I will have to like take care of myself and stop moving. That's a whole nother thing about a walk that I went on. I think I told that story in a previous podcast. So my brain has a lot of thoughts.

[00:29:34] And once I really just decided that this pain, did not mean anything, that it was just an old neurocircuit being fired and that I was fine and I took a two day break from the balance board. I just decided like, I'm not going to be high stakes about it. I'm going to be relaxed about it. The next time I get on it, I'm just going to have fun and know that like, this is safe for me. This is a safe activity for me to do. And next time I got on it. Did not have that pain. The next time I went swimming didn't have that pain. I haven't had it since. And maybe it will come back and that's okay. I'm going to just treat it the same way and know that I'm fine. I had that pain for a very long time.

[00:30:22] And so sure there's an old neurocircuit that goes from my nervous system to that spot in my knee and whatever it was, which is like, oh, it's our time. Let's just, uh, Light up. But I had enough evidence and I had enough experience and I watched the pain be really different. Watch it, show up at certain moments and go away. And I was not having swelling. Like there was a whole long list of evidence for how nothing was happening. Nothing was wrong with my body. The mind, and the body can create any sensation. Especially if it's something that you've felt before in the past.

[00:31:06] So this process of cognitive fusion and defusion is an important one. And so that's the kind of psychology term. I like to use the idea of Buddhism and mindfulness, thinking about a watcher. And because I enjoy theatricality and the process of kind of shaking up your brain with, unique and novel language, I like to create characters like our lazy detective, somebody that we can set off and start to build that practice of neutral observation without danger with friendliness and warmth.

[00:31:48]We want to build the road that we want to be traveling down, that we want to take our whole body mind system with us. And we begin that work now. That doesn't happen in the future. We make the future with what we do now. That becomes the new predictive code, that becomes the new interpretation of inputs and threats.

[00:32:13] Sometimes that work you can do on your own once you understand this. And sometimes that work, you need a guide and sometimes that work you might need, somebody to help you through the darkest times and the deepest waters, and maybe that would be a therapist. There's lots of different ways to start to begin this process of exploring and examining your cognitive and somatic experiences with friendliness and love and compassion.

[00:32:46] That's it for me today. I hope that some of this has been helpful. And I will see you next week. And just to remind you, if you are interested in exploring further with my eight week pain recovery program would like to get out of curiosity, call with me. You can find that on my website, debmalkin.com. Or on my Instagram movewithdeb there is a link to my calendar. You can hop on a curiosity call with me and I'll explain the program, how we explore all of these tools together to help you change your pain experience. Pain and anxiety and emotional overwhelm. They're all interrelated. You can have surprising levels of healing that you were not even expecting to happen.

[00:33:39] So I look forward to speaking with you. Bye.

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In this episode I discuss the concept of The Felt Sense.

I share the work of Dr. Gedlin, the founder of Focusing and namer of the idea of "the felt sense".

I read from this article - https://psychcentral.com/blog/the-issues-are-in-our-tissues-focusing-as-a-somatic-approach-to-therapy#1

You don't need to understand the concept of a felt sense to become aware of them. I share two personal stories of my own felt sense of disbelief from my life.

Here's another interesting article that might tickle your imagination.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/eccTPEonRe4BAvNpD/the-felt-sense-what-why-and-how

Thank you always for listening and if you would like to learn more about my 8 week pain recovery program, please sign up for a curiosity call - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Transcript

Ep5

[00:00:50] Hello, it's Deb with Move With Deb and welcome to my Move With Deb podcast. So today I am rerecording episode five, because I lost it and it's kind of a fascinating journey losing something you worked so hard on, and then just kind of being like amused and unbothered by it. That is a new and welcomed experience for me, kind of excited.

[00:01:26] What my original podcast was and I kind of want to go back to it, uh, which isn't going back to it for you, because you did not get to experience the recording it, editing it, process. And then losing it process. But it's going back to it for me. So what I was talking about is the topic of the despair of disbelief.

[00:01:49] And it's going to bring in this idea of a felt sense of a thought. So when I work with my clients, what we're often doing is kind of mapping our thoughts and our feelings and tying into the sensations that we are experiencing in our body. And there is foundational work in psychology called focusing. And that was developed by Dr. Eugene Gendlin. I didn't actually know of any of this until I kind of Googled the felt sense of a thought, just a concept that I had heard of with Peter Levine and his somatic work. But honestly, those are the words that I have used to describe my cognitive emotional experience. I often feel in my body a felt sense of what I'm thinking.

[00:02:46] So Dr. Gendlin talks about this, this an article from psych central. When he was working with clients, he found that they were connecting with and speaking from their bodily felt experience. When they were doing that, they made the most progress in therapy, regardless of the orientation of the therapist or what kind of therapy it was. Rather than just speaking from their heads or sharing the content or story about their lives, they slowed down their speech and groped for words or images that described what they were feeling inside.

[00:03:21] So here's a quote. I felt angry when I said I was selfish. Well, not, well, not angry there a knot in my stomach. As I talk about it, it reminds me of what I felt when I felt criticized by my mother. There's something wrong with me. It brings up a feeling that I'm flawed and defective. Yes. The shame of being defective. That says it all.

[00:03:45] Gendlin discovered when a word phrase or image that resonated with our inner sense, as felt from the inside, then something shifted and he called this a felt sense.

[00:03:56] What made the difference is pausing and being with the bodily felt sense of an issue, listening to the wisdom of the body, rather than trying to figure out things in one's head. He saying he didn't invent, focusing that he merely observed it. So oftentimes this is the work that I'm doing with my clients.

[00:04:16] We're starting to unravel with the felt senses of a particular thought or an idea or belief about oneself. And that, that felt sense is an input, right? Talk about inputs into the body, into the nervous system. So that felt sense as an input when we're able to bring it out from being unconscious to conscious. And creating a playful engagement, we can begin to understand and shift that.

[00:04:47] I wanted to talk about the despair of disbelief because the felt sense of despair can be very powerful because it's this place of a gap between what we would like to believe and what we actually believe. What I'm finding with myself and with my clients is that it has a real embodied quality to it.

[00:05:12] And that embodied quality can often feel very impactful, can feel very painful. And it's important, I believe to understand what's happening. Because oftentimes when we feel things that are painful, our first impulse is to avoid them. Our first impulse is to want to make them never happen again, because feeling something painful is uncomfortable.

[00:05:40] And if we believe that it is a message about ourselves, about our worth or our value, then we're absolutely not going to want to believe that or approach that. So there's this sense of despair, of hopelessness, that can come with feeling this kind of quality. So I've had this for a lot of times in my life, a sense of disconnect with what I want to believe about myself, what I'm actually feeling, and it can get very confusing.

[00:06:16] I remember being in therapy and having therapists try to convince me that I'm a good person. They were often baffled by my self-loathing, by the intensity of my emotional landscape around not liking myself. And I was often baffled because I would tell stories about things that I did that were "good", but I didn't feel good. I didn't feel like a good person.

[00:06:51] So there was this gap, the more they would try to convince me of something, the more pain that I felt. It wasn't that I didn't believe what they said. It's that I didn't feel the belief in what they were telling me. And now that I work with this concept of the felt sense of a thought, I have a deeper understanding of what was happening.

[00:07:12] So I used to have this happen all the time when I, I first started doing massage. When I started learning massage in my mid forties, and I would give a massage, and usually when I was done, my first thought was, well, wasn't very good. Of course, that was my inside thought. I was not sharing that thought with my clients.

[00:07:34] And I would also have a thought, like I'm still learning, I'm doing the best I can, but there was always this thought that was like, well, that wasn't very good. They're going to be very polite, but that wasn't a very good massage. And I leave the room and leave my clients to change and get dressed. And when I walked back in the room so many times they would relate to me that that was the best massage they'd ever had. That they felt so good. That they felt really relaxed. And then I was good at my job. And in the beginning, I was very confused as to why I had one perception of reality and they had a completely different perception of reality.

[00:08:20] And of course they were my clients. So I wasn't going to argue with them because that would be silly. Somebody tells you that was the best massage I've ever had in my life. I'm not going to sit there and argue with them and tell them that they were wrong. But my inside voice to myself was often thinking they can't be right. Well, you know, they haven't gotten every massage from every person. There, there are plenty of massage therapists who are better than I am.

[00:08:50] But over time, what I began to see is that my brain was not an accurate reporter of somebody else's embodied experience. And so that maybe my brain was just wrong. And then I also could see over time that my brain was telling me my thoughts about my work, not some kind of universal truth. And it just kind of became a background joke between me and myself that I could leave a massage and think that that was the worst massage I've ever given and inevitably I would walk back in the room and my clients would tell me how good they felt.

[00:09:33] After a while there was not a lot of despair in my disbelief, but humor. And that experience was very, very useful because it was so contrasting. Usually, these are very murky. We don't have a lot of direct evidence that may be what we're thinking and what we're feeling about that thought. Isn't a true fact. After I climbed Kilimanjaro, my friend and I were talking about maybe writing a book and it was in New York and just had this well of deep sadness, this despair welling up in me.

[00:10:13] And I was just like crying on the floor pretty dramatically. I did not throw myself on the floor, but I was weeping on the floor. Thinking that I didn't have anything to say. Believing I didn't have anything of value to share. So I was in my feelings, I was crying, moving through that process.

[00:10:35] And then I looked at my email because of course, modern times you can simultaneously be weeping and checking your email, picked up my phone as a handy distraction. And I had gotten an email from my sister's friend with a financial newsletter that at the bottom of it had a quote from me. Now I do not work in the financial industry, but it was a quote that came from a interview that I did for Glamour magazine about the Kilimanjaro climb, because I was a part of a group of 20 plus size women who climbed Kilimanjaro called the Curvy Kili Crew.

[00:11:17] We got some media coverage for that trip. So I had delivered a quote that I think went something like we shouldn't put our life on hold until we lose weight to do something that we want to do. Apparently there are these newsletter companies and they aggravate quotes and then they plop them on the end of newsletters and send them out . So I had given an inspirational quote that then was used in this newsletter, which then was found by my sister's friend and it made its way back to me. And I think I both erupted in some giant laughter and also more tears because I still had this disbelief, this despair of this thought that I had nothing to share nothing of value to share.

[00:12:09] So the universe can sometimes show me that my thoughts aren't true, but they feel true. And the despair of that cognitive dissonance was something that's always been very impactful. So I'm wondering if that resonates with you. What is something in your life that you think you should believe or that you want to believe, but you don't. What does that feel like?

[00:12:37] What is the felt sense of disbelief? Is it the disbelief of thinking I can get out of pain, but then not believing it? The belief that I know how to take care of myself, but then not believing that? The belief that you want to have that I am okay, but not believing that? What does that feel like in your body mind?

[00:13:05] Beginning to understand and allow that sensation, is an important part of learning, how to believe something. And belief is essential for pain recovery. Learning to curiously witness our felt senses becomes one of our most powerful tools to changing our embodied experience, which includes emotional overwhelm and includes physical pain.

[00:13:38] So, what does that feel like in your body? When you have a moment of cognitive dissonance, where maybe you believe and don't believe something at the same time. Where you want to believe something and you don't. Is that a very intense embodied experience for you? There's nothing wrong. Nothing has gone wrong.

[00:14:02] I want you to understand having an intense somatic experience is not a problem. It is a clue. It is the guide with which we can begin to direct our lazy detective to find out what is it that we're thinking and feeling that is causing this much pain. Why does this feel like suffering to me? You want to begin the process of having our curiosity turned on when we have a strong emotion, rather than leading us to wanting to stuff something down, run away from it, suppress it, deny it, fight against it.

[00:14:47] All things we think and feel are felt in our nervous system. What does disbelief feel like to you? How can we create gentleness with ourselves? So I want to suggest that the next time that you have a big physical reaction to a thought to not immediately push it away, but try to get curious about what it is that you're thinking, get curious about your patterns around sensations like this.

[00:15:20] And as I go through my work, I'm going to share more tools, help explain these ideas more clearly. If what I'm talking about resonates with you, you feel like you're somebody who can map their pain in their body to stress in their life, and would like to learn how to change that experience please hop on a curiosity call with me.

[00:15:46]Go to my website at debmalkin.com or my Instagram movewithdeb and in the links, there's a way to find my calendar and get on a curiosity call, 45 minute call. We talk about how learning some new skills can change your pain experience, and it begins with curiosity.

[00:16:07] Thank you so much for listening. It's been really nice spending time with you today. Bye.

View Details

Content announcement, I mention my friend's death from Covid.

What is the felt sense of the thought?
In this episode I discuss the feelings about the willingness or not to have and experience feelings and how that becomes a trigger for our threat alarm.

I discuss the difference between emotional allowance & expression.

I start to noodle out the beginnings of some deeper workings on the topic of Attention. I like to keep my work real basic and understandable and doable.

I say words. Some of them make sense.
Maybe some of these will make sense to you! <3

Always adding new content on instagram - this week I've completed 5 days of IG Lives. So hop on there and check it out.
https://instagram.com/movewithdeb

Transcript

[00:00:50] Hi, this is Deb with the Move With Deb Podcast. And I have been thinking a lot about emotions and the power of a strong emotion. So I was just in the CVS parking lot, scrolling Facebook, as you do. Especially during COVID I've noticed my willingness to be around other people has certainly diminished. So I find myself sitting in my car, extending that period of time before interacting with other people, like to think of that as a good self protection adaptation.

[00:01:28] And so of course, Facebook is a wild card. Sometimes it shows you things that delight you. Sometimes it shows you things that enrage you. So that I found out that my old friend, Erica Watson died of COVID and there was this instant moment of regret having looked at Facebook, cause I was like, now is not the time to feel this, now is not the time to like take in this information.

[00:01:54] Of course my body immediately responded. I was very upset. It brought up lots of thoughts. The last time I saw Erica, which was at least a decade ago when I had my store. She used to be around Re/Dress. She's a comedian. And there were so many things that I liked and appreciated about Erica trying to make her way as a fat black female comedian.

[00:02:18] And that was what I loved about Re/Dress was just getting to meet people, I probably wouldn't have met otherwise, being able to be that kind of hub, make those kinds of connections and bring people together. And then of course my brain wanted to think about Re/Dress. And I was like, I still have a lot of unexamined shame around the store.

[00:02:37] So that came up, my anger about COVID, my anger about the mistreatment of fat people, of black people, of women, and how much medical stigma happens in our lives, how that takes people's lives away from us. Of course, I thought about Covid and how it was so mismanaged and all of this is like, all of these are my inputs into my body mind system.

[00:03:02] As I was sitting there with the news that my friend Erica had died, I was thinking about the power of a strong emotion and what its role is in our life. What is the role of an emotion now that I have this kind of , different worldview of the body and the mind being one system and looking at it that way?

[00:03:28] I think about. Our bodies activation towards change. And I think about all my friends and myself who are activists who want change in the world, because we care about people, because we care about injustice, because we care about our own survival and the survival of people that we love. I was just thinking about how the role of strong emotion and how that relates to action, but then how it also can become this kind of maladaptive habit in which we kind of, are always pinging ourselves, always reacting then with strong emotion. And how that, that level of input turns, what is important function for ourselves in creating change in our life and for society. And I think society is obviously just kind of a, a macrocosm of our own human ecosystem.

[00:04:25] Then we kind of put a bunch of humans together and we have a larger ecosystem. That's operating in an even larger ecosystem, which are nature. And I was just thinking, but sometimes when we get reactive to the input that comes in, to the emotion that comes in, the strong emotion comes in and we don't make room for having a feeling that then we make the feeling a problem.

[00:04:49] And then we label a strong feeling because how it enters our body mind system can be very intense, can have a lot of intensity that can feel very uncomfortable. So if we are used to suppressing that, or we're used to getting swept away by it, they're not problems. They're just, they're just conditioned responses to what is natural, which is outrage, to what's natural, which is a strong emotion.

[00:05:18] And so part of the work that I'm doing with myself, and then I get to do with my clients is breaking open all of the little pieces and getting curious about them. Learning how to witness, like witness all of our inputs. I like to move away from emotions and naming that as such and just kind of even neutralize it and say, it's a, it's an input.

[00:05:41] Maybe it's an input of words in our head or sensations in our body. Because one of the things that I think reinforces avoidance and whether that's in taking action politically or personally in our life is perpetuating the habit of anxious avoidance. And we want to avoid things for our own benefit.

[00:06:06] Avoidance and anxiety is an important adaptive safekeeping skill. We're keeping ourselves safe. We maybe learn something once upon a time and we never unlearned it. And so one of the best things that I've found to neutralize the intensity of anxiety and avoidance is to start to work with curiosity and self-compassion, and they're very much embodied physical experiences.

[00:06:36] When you work with me, they may sound like that's human you're okay. And we think that being okay, it's kind of like blah and bland and it means we're not really in the world. The way I view it is really recognizing, okay is that I have the capacity for survival, that all of these functions that are in my body mind that are managing my body budget, remember because the brain is not made for thinking, that all of these forces in my life are here to perpetuate my survival. And so when I look for the things that I take for granted and bring those out of my unconscious awareness and bring them consciously, I can also feel the other side of the teeter-totter.

[00:07:31] I often talk about this with my clients when we're scanning for danger. When we are creating safety, by building our scanning for danger muscles, that teeter-totter is very unbalanced. That's what our brain does not notice, does not focus on, is actually all of these things in our lives that go undetected because they're not a threat.

[00:07:56] So that might mean having stable housing for this moment, having enough food for this moment, friendships and love relationships that we have, but we're not noticing because we're paying attention to the one that's troubling us. Thinking about positive changes we've made in our lives. The things that we can do with delight, we take that for granted.

[00:08:24] And I don't, I kind of hate the way that we've talked about taking things for granted as if it comes with this judgment, you should feel grateful attitude. Taking something for granted to me, becomes an important guide. What we are not noticing, holds the key to re-patterning our minds away from reactivity, away from being swept up by strong emotions and being able to hold them, being able to love ourselves, being able to use our brain because it's not being carried off in a like neurological biochemical, hormonal surge.

[00:09:13] When we allow ourselves to live the fully human experience, which means there is always tragedy. There is always sadness. There's always despair. There are always people dying. There is always injustice and there is also the opposite.

[00:09:31] I want to share this quote that I've seen a bunch of times this week, probably because we're all passing it around on Facebook with each other. And I really love it. It's been helping me a lot this week, this week, I received some more tough news. After finding out that my friend Erica died, it's been a journey. So this quote is "a disco ball is hundreds of pieces of broken glass put together to make a magical ball of light. You aren't broken. You are a disco ball."

[00:10:09] And I love that because, I mean, I would say maybe you are broken and you are a disco ball. I don't know. I have a tattoo on my arm that says broken. It's very adorned now with some other art, rainbows and butterflies and crystals. It's on the other side of another text based tattoo that says open.

[00:10:33] I got open first. After I'd opened my store originally. I just got the O. And I was too superstitious to get the rest of the word open. So I just got the, O because I told myself if I got the word open, then my store would close and I got the word open and my store also closed or I closed it right after I closed my store and my mother was dying, I got the word broken, tattooed on my arm. Because that was the truest reflection of how I felt. And I didn't feel tragic about it, but I needed to remember that that was how I felt in that moment. And then that was okay. So, you know, what do you do? You get big, old tattoo and people are very interesting with this tattoo.

[00:11:26] Now it's adorned with a lot of things. It doesn't stand out as starkly as it used to. But before, when it was just broken on my forearm, often people would want to know, did I break my arm? And I did, but I don't think it was that arm. I think it was my other arm when I was young roller skating and they want to know why I got this tattoo.

[00:11:48] They wanted it to say unbroken. A lot of people were, were very upset that I had this belief about myself tattooed on my arm and I didn't get it to mean that I was broken, like there was something wrong with me. It was that I felt broken and I wanted to be able to not reject having a feeling. And I look at that as the main understanding in TMS.

[00:12:18] Is that we do not want to reject having a feeling. We don't have to make a home in it and live it and claim it as an identity. I do not have to be a broken person to feel broken at times by life. Sometimes we have a feeling and then we have a pressure to not have a feeling. We're told that we shouldn't feel something.

[00:12:43] I have a lot of clients whose families of origin shamed them for crying, told them that they should suck it up. I have a story. My mother, when I had my first breakup, I had been with my partner for 10 years, years, and we broke up and my mother told me to get over it. And that was a hundred percent around her discomfort over my mood state.

[00:13:08] I was unhappy, depressed, confused. I mean, I had the ending of my ten-year relationship and I was told to get over it. I do think I managed to say back to her, if I had gotten a divorce, would you tell me just to get over it? Because this was back in the day when we were not able to get married. So therefore we were not able to get divorced.

[00:13:32] And I was curious, I was like, if we got divorced, would you tell me to get over it? And regardless of what my mother thought about my relationship, she had always been very open and loving towards my partner, but she was not open and loving towards my having a feeling that was uncomfortable for her. And so we take these messages in, and especially when we're young, we adapt to them either because we want to make the grownups in our family happy.

[00:14:03] We think that's our role. We get that kind of message. I mean, who knows why? Just somewhere in our child brain, it makes sense to us. And then we live out and perpetuate that idea until one day we wake up and say, oh, I noticed that I'm doing this. Do I need to keep doing this? Is this a choice that I would make again right now?

[00:14:28] So that's how it is with feelings. Human beings feel all kinds of feelings, feel the whole gamut and Lisa Feldman Barrett's book, How Emotions Are Made, and also in the work of Susan David, Emotional Agility, they both talk about, emotional granularity has been studied to improve people's mental and physical health.

[00:14:51] So that means having a greater language to describe your feeling state. So it's hard to have more language around how you're feeling. If at the same time, you're not letting yourself feel things. And I'm going to remind you again, that feeling things is not the same thing as expressing things. It's certainly not the same thing as acting out based on an emotion.

[00:15:19] So the intensity with which we do not allow, to me becomes a vibration in the body and that amplifies pain, distress, fear intolerance, the intolerability of the present moment of whatever sensation you're experiencing. And that is one way that we can take like a passer-by of a neutral physical sensation and turn that into chronic pain. It was just a physical sensation, just flowing through your body. At the same time, you're having a strong emotion. If you have a lot of aversion that pain can get swept up in that experience, in that fear experience. And then your neurons just kind of link it together.

[00:16:08] And then depending on which kind of practitioner you go to, everybody's going to see the problem in a different way. They're going to see the problem through their lens. Like that story about the blind men and the elephant. So each person is on a different side of the elephant. Now they've never, I think that story is that they've never seen an elephant before.

[00:16:32] So all they're doing is describing immediately what they can touch on their end. So one of them describes the trunk of an elephant and one of them was like, oh no, it's got this long, thin nose, which is describing the tail. So each practitioner you go to is going to see they're part of your body mind story.

[00:16:55] Some of them do not understand the link between strong emotions or emotional reactivity or suppression as being related to this nervous system, fear protection, alarm, distraction system. Sometimes I talk to people on Facebook groups for TMS and they report that they're terrified of their pain. And then I ask them why, and they don't know. When we don't know something, but we're reacting to it of course it's terrifying. That is maybe the description of a monster.

[00:17:33] Because we're not letting ourselves see through the dark and break apart these conditioned responses, lay them all out in front of us, sprinkle a little neutralizing agent. What might that be? Baking soda? Shine, a light on them, and really get to understand what it is that we're afraid of.

[00:17:56] Some of our fears are just ideas of what we think might happen in the future. Some of our fears or problems that with maybe some help we can solve for right now. Some of our fears, are thoughts and feelings about what other people might think about us, but when we don't look at it and we don't let ourselves, that's the part where it becomes very large, very loud, very intense, and our body feels that and it responds.

[00:18:27] So I've done a lot of Instagram lives this week. And what I hear myself saying over and over again is to meet yourself with kindness. And God. When I say that, I just think really Deb is this all you have to offer people? And maybe that is all I have to offer people. My challenge. And like, I feel really up to it is to come up with the 50,000 ways to say that, to help you feel and experience that, to help you see that you are as wonderful as I think you are.

[00:19:02] And for you to step a little bit further into willingness, hop on that train to curiosity town with me. And start to really let yourself look around that corner and see what it is that you're reacting to. Sometimes we need help to do that. And that's great, especially when it is a space that is cultivated for caring, for celebrating this kind of inquiry.

[00:19:31] So I guess maybe that's all I have to talk about today. I do this kind of feelings work in my eight week pain recovery program. Weeks, two and three are thoughts and feelings. And I help you map this experience of observing the thought and then feeling the corresponding feeling and practicing that awareness, practicing, getting familiar with that experience, developing your lazy detective, which is the skill that you go out into your world with.

[00:20:07] I think this week I gave my client homework to just notice and then be kind. And if you're really curious to know how that will help you get out of pain, you can help on curiosity call with me. I'm wishing you all well in wishing you rootedness and exquisite love and care for yourself.

[00:20:28] And I'll talk to you next week.

View Details

The brain isn't for thinking!
So why do we have so many freaking thoughts all the time?

I share my love for Lisa Feldman Barrett and her work on emotions and the brain and how these concepts help me help my clients change the pain in their body.

Grab some hot tips on how to change your mood. And learn why I love looking at clouds.

Learn more about my work at debmalkin.com

Episode 3 Transcript

[00:00:50]Hello, it's Deb with Move With Deb and we are episode number three. So today I'm going to talk about my view of the body mind system. So I absolutely love the book, How Emotions Are Made. And also the followup book called Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain by scientist, Lisa Feldman Barrett. What I love about this book is that it completely changed my entire view about the brain, which then completely changed my entire view and understanding about the body. And when I talk about changing a view, what I actually mean is altering and changing my embodied experience of understanding.

[00:01:52] And this is what I do in my pain recovery program. Is that we take new ideas and new information, or we unearth current ideas and beliefs that are impacting our body or our interpretation of nociceptive input and we bring it out from a subconscious level to a conscious level so we can look at it. So now I have this view of the brain. And the job of the brain, according to Dr. Barrett is that the brain's job is to manage the body. The brain is not created for thinking. So if that is true why do we think so much? Why do we think all the time?

[00:02:46] So there's this idea of a body mind system. The brain is made to run your body. Which means managing all the activities in the cell. So the way I like to think about the brain now is that it is like a meatball in a box. And all it does is interpret information coming into it from the nervous system. So the nervous system, my friend Sharon likes to call it electrified jello tentacles. So we have a meatball in a box it's connected to electrified jello tentacles that sensing our world. And sensing is perception. That information comes into the brain and the brain categorizes it. Decides what's important, what's not important.

[00:03:38] The entire job of the brain is to manage our body budgets so that we stay alive. So that means it's deciding which hormones to turn on and turn off. It is managing all of our systems, our blood flow, our organs, our interoception, our thoughts and our feelings, all the things that make us who we are, make us human. And it creates our experience of reality.

[00:04:11] But the job that it's trying to do is just keep this wonderful sack of meat going keep you alive. And it's successful until the day that it's not successful. So it has lots of different strategies for maintaining a liveliness. Some we enjoy some, we don't enjoy, enjoyment is kind of secondary.

[00:04:40] I would say it's not of any concern to the brain. Enjoyment certainly is of much concern to the mind, to the perceiver of being alive. All right it's almost like there are two things. There's this brain body situation. And then there's like, what makes us, us, who we are? And I'm not the first person to try to puzzle that out and figure that out.

[00:05:09] So the brain is made to run the body, it is not for thinking. We have all of these senses. So we were taught in elementary school we had five senses, sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. All of that information gets brought into our nervous system in our brain and is interpreted and categorized. What's important to notice. What's not important to notice.

[00:05:35] Think the golden nugget in all of this is what's happening with those sensory information that our body-mind system decides is not worth noticing. So if we're only scanning for danger, quote, unquote, we actually through our activities, train our brain, train this body mind system to be more and more and more sensitive to scanning for danger. That means the sensory information that comes into the nervous system, these inputs and just going to call all of our senses are inputs, those become really important because that's directly related to our survival. What are we not paying attention to? What's not important?

[00:06:28] And that's all the qualities of life that might bring us joy, happiness, connection, the things that oftentimes we so long for. But we have not figured out how to find them. Because we are not making those senses essential to our survival the brain is tuning them out. They're not that important because the brain has one job and one job only to manage this body budget and keep you alive.

[00:07:03] So what are inputs to the nervous system? Those are those five senses. I would also like to share my idea that thoughts and feelings are also inputs. So they're the same thing as these other five senses. And I would imagine if you study quantum physics or metaphysics, you might even be able to name and identify other senses that live in other realms of consciousness. But I am not that person.

[00:07:39] So we have these inputs into our nervous system and our brain is like, okay, is this dangerous? Do I have to pay attention to it? What do I need to know? And how does this match or not match? My sense of reality because our brain is trying to manage this giant organism it really needs to put a lot of shit on automation.

[00:08:06] Automation is metabolically conservative. We don't wake up in the morning every day and think I need to remember how to breathe. I need to remember how to open up my eyes. These are not things we need to learn over and over and over again. The fact that we can do things in our lives and not pay any attention to them is the proof that our reality is constructed because our brain and our body work together to create an experience, then it automates it, knows how to do it and predicts it into the future and just creates that for you without any extra energy or thought. And we don't think of that as being a thing, but it is a thing, going to use that kind of vague language cause I'm trying to help explain a concept.

[00:09:04] Not having to apply any effort to be alive is a state and is created constantly by our brain because that is how it operates on predictive coding, kind of how we manage to be alive. Otherwise, if we needed constant energy to figure all the things out, to constantly be scanning and interpreting and evaluating the, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of inputs, pieces of information and data that come into our brain and our body every second, we would not thrive. We would cease to be alive. It would take more energy than we had to be able to do anything, take more energy than you had to be able to open your eyes in the morning when you woke up.

[00:10:03] So we have this magical brain and somehow in this culture, we've decided, well, the brain is for thinking and that's kind of a misinterpretation. It's just thinking like we do it a lot and we've prioritized it. So we put it on a pedestal and made it more important than our other senses, but it still is an input into the nervous system. Thoughts and feelings are an input into the nervous system, just like sight sound, smell, taste, and touch, and interoception, which is like your body's ability to sense itself in space.

[00:10:42] Nociception, sensing changes in pressure, chemicals, and temperature. We used to hear that nociception was a pain pathway. It's not a pain pathway, it's just a sensory pathway. And our brain interprets that information. Which is why we can change our pain experience. By changing the neural circuitry. So we have these inputs, senses and thoughts and feelings.

[00:11:11] We have other body inputs like food, sleep, we have movement. We have all kinds of things that are inputs into our body budget. We have emotional input like connection, self-talk interpretation, of thoughts and feelings, family, history, our own reactivity, fear, anxiety. Those are also inputs to our nervous system.

[00:11:36] They're kind of inputs that become their own inputs. They're inputs of interpretations of sensory information that then kind of take on their own life because we repeat them. Something that we repeat over and over again, becomes a well myelinated neural pathway. Becomes easier for the body mind to think and do and create for itself. Again, it is that process of the brain making things easy through predictive coding to manage its body budget so that we stay alive.

[00:12:10] And we have external input. Systems of impact, schools, housing, medicine, media, community, words, as inputs into our nervous system, which then we categorize and decide which ones are important and which ones are not important.

[00:12:28] For instance, if you were a person who lives in a fat body, you are well aware that there is a variety pack of opinions about your body that people may have. If you go to the doctor and you're having pain, you might get told, well, you should just lose weight. And that input, that thought, and that feeling helps construct the reality with which you are able to see the possibilities of your body and how they work.

[00:12:57] So then we think, high weight individuals means broken joints. Aging means more pain. There's all kinds of things that we believe that that aren't actually true, but they get repeated enough and there's not enough counter messaging that creates a new reality for us.

[00:13:14] When I grew up and I came out at 19, there was not a lot of out people being queer. We didn't even use that word. Queer was still a slur hadn't yet been reclaimed, codified as an identity, celebrated. So being a lesbian at a young age, I did not have a lot of inputs from culture that offered me an idea that my existence was welcome.

[00:13:42] So we have separated the body in the mind and decided that the body is medical and the mind is psychology but they're not separate. That viewpoint, I think creates bad medicine and unnecessary suffering.

[00:13:56] So we all know we want to organize our life to create certain mood states. That's why we watch Netflix. That's why we take drugs. That's why we have some friendships. That's why we cut people off. That's why we love our pets and hate our friends. It's why we do everything for a feeling that we want to be having.

[00:14:19] So we're always selecting what we want to focus on. There's just too much input for our brain to process. And that tuning and pruning process in the brain is how it selects what's important. So neuroplasticity offers us the pathway to feeling better, to feeling less reactive, to experiencing the world differently.

[00:14:41] Without needing our circumstance to change because when we understand how we are experiencing and creating a mood state in our life, we can create a mood state that we desire whenever we want. And that really requires two things. Learning to create prediction, errors on purpose and living with the discomfort of that and inviting in sensations, on-purpose into our embodied experience to create a mood state that we want to enjoy.

[00:15:20] And that's how we change our embodied experience or cognitive emotional experience. By organizing what the brain is paying attention to. So there's no need to be stuck. The brain tunes and prunes itself. When we understand how biology works, we can organize ourselves so that life has more ease and delight. That things feel less hard that we change our relationship to these various inputs. Some of which we have control over, some of which we do not.

[00:15:55] We have the ability to change our thoughts, think different things on purpose. That's one of the fun things I get to do is help people find new thoughts to think on purpose. And watch them experience the embodiment of a new thought in that moment, in that present time, because we feel our thoughts. This is why some of the language around processing trauma, I find so complicated and difficult because there's a perception may be a misperception that to resolve trauma one must go back in time and deal with the content go deal with the things that have happened in our life. But in reality, when we look at the way that the brain works, it is only processing input in this current moment. Sensory information comes into the nervous system and is evaluated by the brain. That's happening all the time, but it's not happening in the past. It has happened in the past. It is happening in the present and it will happen in the future when that future becomes the present.

[00:17:07] So anything we think about in our past or in our future, it's what we're thinking about right now. So we may have things that feel like shadows or conditioned responses to inputs, but that's the conditioned response we are experiencing in this moment.

[00:17:27] So the conditioned response to maybe a smell or a sound that maybe was created and supported and reinforced over a period of time, can be changed only now in the present moment. And we start that by uncovering it. By just noticing, without fear, the habit, the process, the conditioned response that we have created. Practicing, noticing things without fear and then soothing our nervous system and caring for ourselves is a very important process of retraining the brain.

[00:18:07] So when people would tell me when they would come in for a massage and they would tell me a story about how their muscles would hold memories. I just thought the muscle is living your thought about the memory that you have right now. Muscles don't have memory. There is the neural pathway that has been maintained and created and reinforced over time. So maybe that is a memory, but it can be unreinforced and unmaintained. And then the brain's natural process for tuning and pruning will make it insignificant and unimportant. And then you will not perceive it. It won't be there anymore.

[00:18:50] Your brain is always doing that. It is always deciding what is important and unlinking, and uncreating neural pathways. All the time. So this work between balancing the experience of sensations in the body, our interpretation of it, and then the interpretation of the thought and feeling inputs. That's the work that we do. We build new predictions for our brain to work with, which involves creating prediction errors on purpose. We want to interrupt the brain's predictive coding because the predictive coding is the simulation video game of our life that our brain is delivering to us. Not because it's devious or mean, or some weird robot from the future, but because that's how it maintains our body budget and our ability to be alive.

[00:19:48] It's like a TV screen that only refreshes the new content that comes in. So it's metabolically prudent to operate that way. So we have to learn. Learning is taxing to our body mind system. Learning includes discomfort, the discomfort of the prediction error. If we have a relationship that we have built of discomfort, meaning "I'm bad, I am stupid. I should have known how to do this. I don't know what I'm doing. I can't imagine how this will be any different. Why do I keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, this is just how things are. It will never be changed, is fixed. This is what's wrong with me." Those are inputs. Those are thoughts stories that we think over and over and over again, to help us explain that edge of discomfort that comes with wanting to create a prediction error, that being afraid.

[00:20:48] So brain is like a faithful dog. It will always retrieve us what we are scanning for. And the antidote to that is curiosity. So if we send our brain off and with the thought, I think the thought, why am I dumb? Why can't I explain this information about the brain in a way that is simple and easy? Well, my brain being a very faithful dog will come back and show me evidence. It will give me lots of examples of why that thought is true. And then, then I will feel the feelings that I have come to associate with that thought. And in some ways, because I've maybe thought that thought a lot, my body mind system will actually feel, it will feel normal, right?

[00:21:34] It won't be distressing because I'm not actually trying to have myself believe something I don't believe. So because we've maintained the prediction I get to experience a lack of distress, a lack of discomfort because my prediction of who I am and who I believe myself to be matches, the one that I'm experiencing.

[00:21:57] It just happens to one, not be true. And it doesn't feel very good. I don't want to keep thinking that thought that I don't know how to explain things clearly.

[00:22:10] So for me to believe a new thought, I have to come up with one that I can believe and also enjoy thinking and want to practice it. So believing a thought like I'm the smartest person on the planet doesn't make any sense to me, it's not believable. I mean, I'm just like an average student. I was a very average student in high school and college. So that doesn't match in a way that feels authentic, but I can believe something that went, "there might be a unique way in which I explain this that will help one person understand their lived experience better."

[00:22:51] And that feels true. Right? I check in with my body when I make a thought. And then if I practice that, that will become my new prediction and it requires practice. It's not an automatic process, but it's just the way the brain works. Because now I'm going to use this tuning and pruning process of brain managing the body budget to create an experience that I want to. Which is having more ease and making a podcast feeling excited and good about what I have to say, thinking about myself as a person who can make it the podcast with ease.

[00:23:28] And maybe it would be fun. As opposed to how I thought this morning when I woke up and I said, oh my God, why did I decide that I was going to do a weekly podcast? This is the worst idea ever. Maybe I'll just put the blanket back over my head. Pretend like I didn't commit to this. So I can use my understanding of the brain and how it works to create the experience of being excited to make this podcast and share these ideas. Even when I say I'm excited to create this podcast and share these ideas, that is a thought that feels true to me.

[00:24:02] And now I'm experiencing in my body. You can't see me, but my face is smiling and I'm feeling connection. And I'm feeling excitement. It's kind of a low key excitement. Maybe I feel pleased, I feel encouraged. I feel happy to be here. Maybe you won't understand a single thing I said, but I am sitting here feeling happy to be here and that's meaningful and important.

[00:24:27] And I can take that experience and apply that to lots of different places in my life. I have so much to say. I do find my own brain a little overwhelming at times. But one thought I had this morning, as I was hanging out with feeling overwhelmed was, I can't wait to be me a year from now having made a year of podcasts to see how that actually changes my experience of organizing these words in my mind, called thoughts.

[00:24:59] I cannot wait to see what it looks like to say something badly, I know that's a value judgment, but to say something awkwardly, incorrectly, badly, confusingly 10, 20, 30 times in a way, but then will help lead me to how I want to describe something how I want to explain. This was the part that I finally understood this year was that when we get curious about failing, create that curiosity as the pleasurable and enjoyable experience fear diminishes.

[00:25:42] I don't need to be afraid of making this podcast. If I am opting out of this kind of all or nothing experience. And that's what I do with people around their bodies, the more I'm coating people on pain, the more I'm recognizing that we all want to feel okay. And we just don't understand how to get there.

[00:26:05] And we have had different journeys. That have created different condition responses and have created different ways for our brain to prioritize some information as being very important for our survival, which means that it's ignoring lots of information about the ways that we already are succeeding, about the ways that we already are creating what we're looking for in our life. But we're just looking in the wrong drawer.

[00:26:33] So that's my job. It's to help people shift their experience of their thoughts and feelings. And then we create new neural pathways to travel down in a way that feels peaceful and calm and invited to the nervous system where we bring in delight and joy and fun. Not in an artificial way, but by attuning our senses to what we are already experiencing in our life. But because we are so busy scanning for danger, we are ignoring them.

[00:27:07] I think COVID has really forced me to understand this because it has constrained my life so tightly that nothing I used to do for fun or calm or connection or joy was available to me. So I decided well to figure out how to hack the system, what does joy feel like? I know where I used to locate it, on that hike that I love to take in Oakland. Seeing my client's faces before a massage, but none of those things, none of those circumstances were in my life. And instead I had a lot of circumstances that I was unhappy about.

[00:27:51] So I figured it out. I looked at a cloud. And I let that beauty of a cloud fill me up. And then I felt the sense of beauty. I would look at a tree and I would think about, there are thousands of people looking at trees. And so by me looking at this tree and taking in all the various colors of green, I also think about all the other people looking at trees, and then I felt connected.

[00:28:19] That felt sense of connection was alive in me in that moment. Not because I was near anybody, but because I chose to invite that in and then paired it with a sense that spoke to my nervous system. Now, when I look at a tree, I feel connected. Now, when I look at a cloud, I feel joy. Our thoughts and our feelings are not psychology and our body is not biology or one system.

[00:28:45] Change is always available to us. The experience of pain is just an interpretation by the body. Sometimes it's an important interpretation to pay attention to. Like, if you broke your leg or your hand is in a fire. Sometimes the information that's coming into you that's being interpreted by the brain and the nervous system is a misinterpretation in that we're just experiencing the prediction of the nociceptive experience.

[00:29:13] We have a lot of different tools that we get to explore this misinterpretation of the brain. So if any of that resonates with you. I invite you to jump on a curiosity call with me, and then we can talk about how my eight week pain recovery program might be helpful. Get more in-depth into the science, but not so in-depth that you have to be a neurobiologist.

[00:29:36] I'm certainly not a neurobiologist, but I am trained by Dr. Schubiner, Charlie Merrill the PPDA. I have the experience of helping my clients create a shift in their own embodied experience away from the one that they don't want to be having towards the one they do want to.

[00:29:53] I am wishing you well. I invite you to think about paying attention to some of these senses that we often ignore.

[00:30:03] Thank you.

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This episode was inspired by the headache I had after creating and posting episode one.

I also share some of my wholistic beliefs that I organize my program around (pulled from my teaching materials so the audio quality is different fyi).

I hope you enjoy listening. Maybe it sparks some thoughts and feelings for you as well.

Transcription:

Episode_2

[00:00:50]Hi, it's Deb, back with the Move With Deb podcast. I just wanted to tell you a story about how much I felt like shit after creating and posting my first episode last night, I share this story not to be self-indulgent. Although why not? It's my podcast. But to kind of quickly, illuminate my own experience of my thoughts and feelings as inputs into my physiological experience.

[00:01:23] So I had a lot of fear and anxiousness nervousness about creating the podcast, posting the podcast will people like it, will people have thought negative thoughts about it. And in general, I'm a very reactive person, to what I perceive as negative feedback. It's something I'm actively aware of and am working on.

[00:01:46] And in fact, have a lot of excitement about learning, like observing this part of me with extraordinary kindness. And I think the work that I'm doing on self compassion is going to be a real cornerstone of my liberation experience. That said had a lot of fear. Did it anyway.

[00:02:08] If you follow my Instagram I have what I am calling a friends with fear practice, where I am learning to roller skate. So I'm intentionally inviting in things that I think are kind of scary to do and play with on purpose. So I can rewire my nervous system to have a kind of expanded window of tolerance around things that create fear.

[00:02:33] So this podcast, I suppose, is going to be a part of my friends with fear practice. So for a good day after posting the podcast and I did all the brave things that I wanted to do, any impulse that I had to hide, I could just recognize. And acknowledge, and then kind of hold my own hand as we posted the podcast, let people know about it and care for myself in taking the actions that I wanted to take, even though they felt scary and something feeling scary for me, has a very strong embodied experience.

[00:03:17] And it's generally not pleasant. So I had a headache had like a killer headache. It felt like a vice was gripped onto the back of my neck, pressing and squeezing. Like maybe like my head was gonna pop up off at some point. And I had it all the way through a class that I am enrolled in, not ironically about, neuropathic pain and after the class, I was exhausted and overwhelmed by this headache and, and all of the feelings that I felt like I needed to hold back. That's what it finally dawned on me, what I was doing, what was happening.

[00:03:58] So I wrote on a post-it note, I feel like I am a dam holding everything back because that was the image that came to me when I thought, what is this embodied experience that I'm having? I feel like I am a dam holding everything back. What I knew to be true and what I know to be true is that what I was holding back was fear, were thoughts and feelings, was the way that I was afraid I was going to think about myself, about creating the podcast. If somebody had something to say that wasn't good job, Deb. What, if somebody had a question, I couldn't answer. What if somebody doesn't agree with it? Me or the work that I'm trying to create in the world, the ways that I'm trying to offer help and care? That's what was the pressure in my head. So I knew, well, I can have a thought and a feeling.

[00:05:00] I can allow other people to have their own thoughts and feelings about my work. We don't have to agree. In fact, I can learn a lot from what we don't agree on. And I don't have to be mean to myself in the learning process. So I laid down and I said, we're going to open this dam. We're just going to let all of this flow.

[00:05:25] I was just by myself in my bedroom. I knew I was safe. I had Lionel next to me. I think I had my hand resting on Lionel's soft fur as a way to tell myself that I am fine, that I'm okay. that I'm safe. And I just opened the dam, that was the image that I had in my mind. And all of these feelings came out, cried a lot.

[00:05:51] I had a lot of feelings, but I also could feel it flowing through me in a way that felt healing and helpful. When I was done, I think maybe 20 minutes later, I got up and my headache was gone and I thought I don't need to defend myself. There is nothing to defend myself from. And I wrote that on a post-it note because that's the thought I'm going to practice.

[00:06:21] And now I also think of a dam in a different way. Dams are very useful. I didn't need to blow up my dam to open the dam, to relieve myself of the pressure. And of the headache, I didn't need to destroy anything, it just actually needed to let it operate as designed. Sometimes we put dams in places where they shouldn't be, and they affect the waterways, create change in ways that are unexpected.

[00:06:51] Sometimes we take dams away and we let the water flow and change the landscape back to something more natural. So dams can be helpful and they can be harmful. What was harmful for me in that moment was the sense that I couldn't feel something that I needed to hold everything back. That my idea of safety laid in, not feeling. I will say, having a headache is my body's way of saying, I know you want to not feel something, but you are feeling it.

[00:07:26] So that denial of reality became a headache because I was feeling it. Even though I didn't want to.

[00:07:34]These are my holistic principles. I believe that healing is always happening in our body. I believe that humans have immutable worth and value. It means you are born with it and you die with it. There's nothing you need to do to earn it. There is no way to diminish your worth and value as a human being.

[00:07:54] I believe our body mind operates survival first. Our survival instinct is a main driver of our physiology. The nervous system slash safety system is the boss of us. Our nervous system touches upon every organ and every system in our body. I believe that healing is our natural state. There are functions happening with your body all day long without our knowledge that are operating under the principle of healing. We have our lymphatic system, which is a cleansing process. We have our brain and autophagy at night. When you go to sleep, our brain literally cleans itself.

[00:08:41] So we are in a perpetual state of healing as human beings. So some of the work that we're doing is like, we're just inviting in more of that, or we're turning our attention to this natural healing state of our being. So that leads me to neuroplasticity our brain and our nervous system in our body are adaptable.

[00:09:07] You know, how you lift weights and you build muscle. That is our body adapting to a gravitational load. We make new neural pathways all the time when we're creating new thoughts and new ideas. We're always making new patterns. So along with our healing, our brains, our nervous systems and our bodies are adaptable.

[00:09:34] So we're going to apply these principles towards moving us out of pain. The human stress response is normal. We live in a very stressful world. And the way that our body minds respond to stress is normal. Some things about our culture to have decided that our human stress response is abnormal or undesirable.

[00:10:02] And so then part of our stress response has been pathologized. And I think that that's one cause for a lot of fear and catastrophizing. Human brains make patterns. The patterns are not meaning. So we're going to talk about predictive coding. We're going to talk about the construction of emotions and just going to debunk some ideas about our thoughts and feelings and how we come to conclusions about what we believe and how that plays into our somatization of pain.

[00:10:44] Thanks for listening to the podcast this week, I look forward to sharing my thoughts and ideas with you every week about pain and the brain and how we put it all together. If you want to see more information about what I am doing, you can follow me on Instagram, at move with Deb, or check out my website, Deb malkin.com.

[00:11:08] I also have a resource guide. If you sign up for my email list, you'll get a multiple page resource guide filled with all kinds of helpful stuff. My eight week pain recovery program is open for new clients. So if you'd like to, sign up, please send me an email to paincoachdeb@gmail.com or go on my website and book a 45 minute curiosity call with me.

[00:11:40] We can chat about what the program looks like and whether it would be helpful for you.

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Hi! In this introduction episode I share a little bit about my background as a bodyworker, former plus size fashionista, fat activist and new my work as a pain recovery coach.

You'll hear my story of osteoarthritis knee pain and how I discovered my new paradigm about neural circuit theory pain, my introduction to Dr. Sarno and the Curable app.

Find out more about my Fear Brain & Chronic Pain recovery program at debmalkin.com

Transcript -

[00:00:50] Hello, and welcome to the move with Deb podcast with me, Deb Malkin. So I am a pain recovery coach. At least that's what I'm calling it now. And my primary mission is to teach people about the relationship between their brain, their mind, their body, their nervous system and how most pain is understood to be a problem of the body.

[00:01:25] I'm a body worker, now trained in pain, science education and a life coach. I used to work in plus size fashion. I owned a store called Re/Dress NYC back in the day in Brooklyn and I spent many years active in the fat liberation movement. I also studied restorative exercise, biomechanics with Katie Bowman. of, move your DNA and nutritious movement fame.

[00:01:52] I am a Vodder trained lymphatic therapist as well as a certified massage therapist. My bodywork practice, uh, is focused on creating accessible judgment, free bodywork. For folks who usually did not feel like they had access to traditional wellness spaces.

[00:02:13] I am a recovering perfectionist, among many things. And I am what I call a high somaticizer which means I feel my thoughts very acutely, which is not the most fun. But it is helped lead me to understand the physiology of pain in a very personal and powerful way, which then helps me help other people get rid of their chronic pain and overwhelm.

[00:02:40] I currently have an eight week program that teaches the latest science around neurocircuit pain, as well as supportive, personalized coaching. Which is really just a fancy word for having conversations to practice these skills in real time. So far, my clients have found relief of decades, of migraines, years of back pain and fatigue.

[00:03:04] And we're just getting started. I'm so excited to share my belief that chronic pain is solvable. That it's a signal for attention, not damage.

[00:03:16] So, I guess my story around learning the new neuroscience of pain, that's kind of what I'm calling it, um, starts when I was having very intense knee pain, um, back in September of 2000 and 19. I had on and off relationships with knee pain over the years, I tore my meniscus on my left knee, had surgery. It still took about two years, for it to heal. It actually now, that I understand pain and healing. I would actually say it took me two years to become pain-free. Which is not the same thing as healing.

[00:04:06] I believe that my tissues healed long before the pain signal stopped. Um, so I was working as a body worker. I had climbed Kilimanjaro with an amazing group of plus size women called the Curvy Kili Crew. And, um, I had been wanting to do more hiking and I was just having this knee pain that would not go away.

[00:04:34] And it was very, very distressing to me. It was interrupting my ability to work. It was interrupting my hobbies and things that I like to do to take care of myself. And at 50. I thought, well, I might be heading towards a knee replacement and I have a lot of people in my life who have had joint replacements and some people who have had very scary and negative experiences with joint replacement surgery.

[00:05:14] And, um, so that was very worrisome for me. And I also thought, well, I'm only 50. And of course I'm fat. So I'm thinking, well, all of the stories that go with that, this is my fault. Um, I should lose weight. And then I also had this biomechanics history and my own training to climb mountains. And that also told me, well, I couldn't be in this weight and not have knee pain.

[00:05:43] So it was a very confusing jumble of thoughts and feelings and fear. Had a lot, a lot of fear. Looking back now only a tiny portion of it was I really allowing to show up, but I had a lot of fear and I think it was through a friend that I learned about the curable app. And then I learned about the work of Dr. Sarno.

[00:06:17] I read his book, the mind, body prescription. And I got started with the curable app and anybody who knows me. I usually jump into things with both feet. So I was like all in. The moment that I understood that the pain that I was feeling in my knee could be driven by my thoughts and feelings and fears, my unconscious experience. And that, that was in fact, what was creating the sensation of pain that I was experiencing. As soon as I heard that, I was like, well, let's try this out. Let's examine this idea. Oh, I forgot to say, I also had gone to the doctor. Had gotten x-rays of my knee. And they told me that I had osteoarthritis that it was, um, kind of mild to moderate, moderate osteoarthritis. And some of it was erosive.

[00:07:25] I could go look it up and get the details, but that was not a surprising finding, but I heard this new information and I decided to take myself for a walk with the idea that, what I needed to do was tell my knees that they were okay. And I took a walk with a friend's dog through my neighborhood, looking at the pretty flowers of the neighbor's houses while I'm walking this dog, I'm having a conversation with my knees and it kind of went like, all right, me, this book, and this app tells me there's nothing wrong with you.

[00:08:05] And my knee was like, well, I know you are always looking for what's wrong because my biomechanics background was, was I was like training my brain to always be evaluating my alignment. What I didn't realize that I was actually doing teaching my brain to scan and interpret any nociceptive input as being dangerous as needing to be fixed, changed or altered.

[00:08:39] So my knee said to me, well, you're the one stressing me the fuck out. And I was like, oh wow. That's not what I want to be doing. So how do we not stress you out? Then it was like, maybe, you know, I'm going to tell you you're okay. And then my knee is like, well, but I don't believe you. I was like, oh, all right.

[00:09:07] You don't believe what, what I'm saying. Well, I'm going to tell you that you can trust me. And then that was such a deep wound. Like I could, I mean, you can hear me now. I could feel such huge emotion. Well, up when I kind of asked my knee to trust me in what I was telling it. And then I was saying that I know that you're okay, that we're going to be okay together.

[00:09:39] And I took this walk and I just kept telling my knee that he could trust me and that we're okay. And any time then it could, it, it wanted to be like, I don't know this crack in the sidewalk, or I don't know this we're walking a lot. Um, and I just kept repeating that we're okay. And that you can trust me.

[00:10:01] And then slowly through this walk and it was at this very moderate pace, the tension in my quadriceps and behind my knee caps relaxed. And the more that I felt that relaxation, the less pain I felt, the less pain I felt, the more emboldened I felt about the message being true, that I could trust myself.

[00:10:26] And that was this very essential life altering experience with my body. And I woke up the next day in 80%, less pain. Whereas I had been waking up in the mornings and having a lot of difficulty, lot of pain, getting out of bed, walking to the bathroom, excruciating pain. I woke up the next day in a lot less pain.

[00:10:52] And then I went to my work day, which was massage. I stand, I move a lot and I work on lots of people. And by the end of the day, I was in 95% less pain. Because throughout that time, while I was working, I changed the messages that I was delivering to my body. Whereas I used to spend time while I was working kind of scanning my biomechanics, scanning my body for the proper alignment, always judging and scrutinizing. In a way that I believed was helpful, but it was not received by my nervous system as helpful. My own life, my own family history, my experience growing up fat has given me a lot of belief around what's happening in my body and trust was definitely not a strong belief that I had.

[00:11:56] And so my biomechanics education wasn't offering me this idea of peace. I was using it as a tool to become perfect, to do things the right way, all in service of my getting stronger feeling better. It was all for the right reasons. But they were not the right messages to deliver to myself. And so what I have learned through this work is that my nervous system listens on that internal level.

[00:12:29] So you may be saying words that sound helpful. But what I was really offering to my body, into my nervous system were messages that were very critical, that were fear-based and that created a relationship of danger and, high alert. So when I took this walk and then the next day when I went to work, I really focused on delivering messages of safety, calm and okayness that no matter what I felt I was okay.

[00:13:03] And then my pain changed and it changed very, very quickly, more quickly than say rehabbing, my knee in physical therapy would, or, or resting would. So my pain experience was clearly not related to the condition of the tissue, of the joint, of the muscle. None of those things changed overnight. I did not miraculously lose weight overnight.

[00:13:39] So all things being the same between one day and the next day, having a dramatic reduction in pain proved to me, without a doubt, that pain is a protection. That pain is a signal to pay attention and that we can train our brain into continuing to deliver pain signals long after there is a reason to be receiving them. And that there's a deep relationship between fear and pain.

[00:14:15] And I think what's important to unpack is. Fear is where we get to do all the work. And there's so much work to be done around fear in the body. And if you're aging, if you're fat, if you are person of color, if you do not have access to adequate healthcare or housing or have your basic needs met, there is a lot of fear.

[00:14:43] We are given messages of fear from everywhere about our bodies. And unfortunately this work doesn't make those messages go away, but we can change the way that we metabolize them and that alone can help with your pain. And then we can all work together to change the messages that we receive. Sometimes what's helpful is to do the both, and, instead of waiting for one before the other.

[00:15:12] So that's my story. I hope that you will join me on my Instagram, Move With Deb, and then you'll come back here and listen to the podcast.

[00:15:22] Now I'm going to get more into tools and tips and how to listen to your nervous system, how to create peace, the ideas behind the neuroscience of neurocircuit pain, the brain as a predictive coder, the role of emotions and thoughts as sensations in the body. There's a whole lot of stuff to learn, explore, get curious about.

[00:15:49] And if you're ready to jump in with both feet. And want to book a consult call with me, or just sign up for my eight week, pain recovery program, which I have so aptly named, fear brain, and chronic pain and other conditions feel free to hop into my website at debmalkin.com.

[00:16:12] And it has a whole link about how to sign up for a consultation with me. And if you sign up on my email list I will send you a resource guide as well. Thank you so much for listening. I am thinking about you and I'm here to share everything I understand about pain, about the nervous system, about the brain, about having a body about feeling better.

[00:16:40] Thank you.

[00:16:41]Music by John_Yasutis from Pixabay

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