MindShift Podcast: Recent Episodes
Dr Clint Heacock
This week's episode features a conversation with Paule Patterson — a former pastor turned Christian mystic and recovering alcoholic — to trace the arc of his remarkable personal journey.
Paule shares how his struggles with addiction, the collapse of his ministry in Missoula, Montana, and how multiple stints in rehab ultimately forced him to confront the deeper fractures in his faith, his identity, and his sense of self.
Rather than walking away from spirituality entirely, Paule found that sobriety, AA, psychology, and a voracious study of both scripture and philosophy led him toward a richer, more honest relationship with the divine.
In the second half, our conversation broadens out into a wide-ranging discussion about the Western church's tendency to institutionalize and rigidify belief — from the Reformation to the present-day Christian nationalist movement in America.
We draw on such diverse elements as church history, René Girard's mimetic theory, Taoism, Buddhist mindfulness, and the work of Richard Rohr to argue that Christianity was always meant to be a living, transformative path rather than a doctrinal checklist.
Paule describes himself today as a Christian mystic, running a small business while quietly pursuing his passion project of helping others navigate deconstruction with intellectual honesty and spiritual openness.
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In this episode, I speak with Beth Granger, author of Born and Razed: Surviving the Cult Was Only Half the Battle. Beth shares her extraordinary story of growing up as a staff kid inside Grenville Christian College in Brockville, Ontario — a boarding school secretly operating as a cult under the influence of the Community of Jesus, a commune based in Cape Cod.
She describes the psychological control, public shaming sessions, draconian discipline, and spy networks that defined life inside the institution, drawing striking parallels between cult tactics and the dynamics of modern political movements.
Our conversation also covers Beth's long journey toward healing after leaving at age 31, including her involvement in a landmark lawsuit that became the first historical abuse case to win at trial in Canada. She reflects on the layers of recovery that followed: therapy, writing her memoir, and the validating experience of having her story taken seriously in a court of law.
The episode closes with a discussion of how the Community of Jesus continues to operate today--now aligned with Christian nationalist ideology--and why Beth wrote her book: to sound the alarm about the lasting, sometimes irreparable damage that weaponized, high-control religion can inflict.
For more information on the book, check out Beth's site.
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In this week's episode, I chat with Morgan Piercy, a Licensed Professional Counselor based in Kansas. She specializes in helping adults deconstruct from evangelicalism and Christian nationalism through a neurodiversity-affirming lens.
Together we explore the clinical reality of Religious Trauma Syndrome (RTS) — why it goes far deeper than the commonly used term "church hurt" — and how patriarchal church structures, purity culture, and high-control theology can create lasting psychological harm.
We also draw on our personal experiences with religious deconstruction, sharing candid reflections on growing up in fundamentalist and charismatic traditions, the fear-based theology of hell and the rapture, and the complex journey toward reclaiming identity outside the church.
Morgan also discusses the therapeutic tools she uses with clients, including Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), to help people reconnect with their authentic values after leaving high-control religious environments.
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In this week's episode, I finally had the chance to interview investigative journalist Gareth Gore about his book Opus: The Cult of Dark Money, Human Trafficking, and Right-Wing Conspiracy Within the Catholic Church. Gore explains how he stumbled onto the story while investigating the 2017 collapse of Spain's Banco Popular, only to discover the bank had been covertly controlled by Opus Dei for decades — serving as its primary financial engine and funneling hundreds of millions, possibly billions, of dollars into the organization worldwide.
Our conversation traces Opus Dei's origins in 1920s Spain under founder Josemaría Escrivá, its symbiotic relationship with the Franco regime, and its evolution into a secretive, elitist global network operating in 70 countries. Gore details how the organization targets society's elite — law students, politicians, judges — to advance a conservative Catholic agenda, including its deep ties to figures like Bill Barr, Leonard Leo, and the conservative takeover of the U.S. Supreme Court.
We also expose the darker side of Opus Dei: cult-like control over members, psychological abuse, and criminal charges filed in Argentina for the enslavement and human trafficking of women recruited as "assistant numeraries" to serve in Opus Dei centers around the world.
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I've finally had time to get this special episode out: another chapter reading from my 2024 book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work, edited by Tim Sledge.
In this reading--Chapter 4--I pick up the story that follows immediately after my first baptism at the age of 10. My pastor had recommended I get baptized after I'd seen that terrifying, end-times apocalyptic movie A Thief in the Night in the 1970s. Afraid of being left behind in the event of the Rapture, I submitted to his spiritual authority, and went ahead and got baptized.
Since he'd informed me that baptism was the key to salvation, after this important milestone event, I figured I was finally on safe ground with the Almighty. No longer terrified and suffering from Rapture anxiety, I went on to the next key step I was told I needed for my spiritual development: reading the Bible and praying daily, which I struggled to do on a consistent basis.
I was also told by important people in my life that I needed to develop a love for God too, I tried mightily to do that also, but with very limited success.
Link to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work on Amazon!
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Just in time for the aftermath of the Christian nationalist-fuelled "Rededicate 250," I welcome back Dr. Warren Throckmorton. We discuss his new book, The Christian Past That Wasn't: Debunking The Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History, which challenges the historical claims of Christian nationalism.
Dr. Throckmorton explains how Uganda's 2009 Anti-Homosexuality Bill — justified by its sponsors using the Bible and linked to "The Family" — sparked his journey toward strict church-state separationism. We then take aim at a number of these quasi-historical myths, such as the belief that America was founded as a Christian nation. Dr Throckmorton's rigorous historical research reveals that the Founders deliberately excluded religion from the Constitution, and that it is not in fact based on the Bible.
Dr. Throckmorton contends that today's Christian nationalism is less about history and more about political power, pointing to the Trump administration as a prime example of pro-Trump evangelical Christianity operating as a quasi-established religion. The question truly is: who benefits from promoting such mythology?
Get access to the book at this link: The Christian Past That Wasn't
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This conversation features a return appearance by Dr. Terri Daniel of the Ask Dr. Death podcast. We discuss spiritual bypassing — a psychological phenomenon, originally coined by Buddhist teacher and psychotherapist John Welwood in the 1980s, which describes the use of spiritual or religious beliefs as a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with painful emotions, grief, trauma, and loss. Dr. Daniel draws from her academic research, as well as her experience as a hospice chaplain, offering case studies and clinical definitions to illuminate how people use religion to sidestep the hard work of emotional healing.
Out conversation is wide-ranging and candid, touching on the Hebrew Bible's "reward-and-punishment" theology, the Book of Job, cognitive dissonance in faith communities, and the concept of disenfranchised grief — the inability to mourn openly within a religious community when the deceased falls outside its moral framework.
We both share personal anecdotes, including Clint's recent retinal detachment surgery and Terri's job loss, as real-world examples of resilience without divine intervention. The episode closes with a plug for an upcoming online symposium on spiritual bypassing, scheduled for July 25th, featuring six presenters including grief counselors, a Buddhist teacher, and researchers in trauma and religious deconstruction.
Contact Terri at https://deathgriefandbelief.com/
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After speaking recently with Peter Bell for the last podcast, I'm bringing you a bonus episode: a conversation Sarah Bader, co-host of the Sons of Patriarchy podcast and a longtime Moscow, Idaho resident.
We talk about what everyday life is like under the influence of Pastor Doug Wilson and his Christ Church. Sarah shares how she joined Peter after a failed NPR project, and how growing up in Moscow since 1998 gave her a frontline view of how Doug Wilson has systematically built a religious and cultural empire in the town. The conversation covers Wilson's dominionist agenda, his ties to the American Redoubt movement, Christian nationalism, and his growing national influence through figures like "Secretary of War" Pete Hegseth.
The second half of the interview delves into specific scandals Wilson has survived, most notably the Steven Sitler child abuse case, where Wilson wrote letters of leniency to the court and later presided over Sitler's wedding despite his crimes.
We also discuss the cult-like hallmarks of Wilson's Christ "Kirk"--loaded language, self-ordained leadership, a self-contained publishing and education empire, and a culture of fear and bullying that has left local businesses, city officials, and even state institutions reluctant to challenge Wilson. Sarah reflects on the personal toll of living within 500 yards of Wilson's campus while fighting him publicly, expressing uncertainty about whether the battle is being won, but affirming her commitment to speaking out as long as she can.
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In this episode, I welcome Peter Bell from the Sons of Patriarchy podcast for a deep dive into the world of Doug Wilson. He's a self-ordained pastor from Moscow, Idaho who has spent decades building a network of Christian nationalist influence.
Together we trace Wilson's origins, his controversial "Southern Slavery As It Was" pamphlet, his founding of the CREC denomination and the Association of Classical Christian Schools (ACCS), and how his fringe ideas gradually moved into the mainstream — culminating in his recent sermon at the Pentagon.
The conversation then turns to Pete Hegseth, now U.S. Secretary of Defense (or War), and the web of connections linking him to Wilson's world through classical Christian education and the ACCS, Fox News, Christian nationalism, and the fringe CREC denomination.
Both of us, as seminary-trained theologians, share deep concern about a man with limited theological education wielding militaristic, crusader-inspired religious rhetoric--all the while overseeing the world's most powerful military engaged in an illegal war against Iran.
We argue that the through line--traced from R.J. Rushdoony's Christian Reconstructionism to Doug Wilson to Pete Hegseth--represents a genuinely dangerous convergence of weaponized theology, patriarchy, and political power.
For more information on Doug Wilson, check out this playlist of episodes I did on him a few years ago.
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This week, I had the pleasure to interview returning guest Tia Levings about her new book I Belong To Me: A Survivor's Guide to Recovery and Hope After Religious Trauma. Tia explains that while her first memoir A Well-Trained Wife told the story of escaping an abusive marriage rooted in Christian patriarchy--and the teachings of figures like Bill Gothard and James Dobson--this new book is a self-help guide chronicling how she rebuilt herself over a decade of healing.
We also explore the broader reach of Christian nationalism, including Doug Wilson's growing political influence through figures like Pete Hegseth, and how fundamentalist movements groom people for obedience and abuse through purity culture, corporal punishment, and high-control dynamics.
Tia shares practical insights from her recovery journey, including EMDR, internal family systems therapy, somatic work, and grounding techniques. She emphasizes treating triggers as information rather than threats, the importance of tending to the "aftermath of shock" before making major life decisions, and how unhealed trauma can lead to "cult hopping" into new controlling relationships. She describes herself as "spiritually private," rejecting labels in favor of fluidity and self-discovery.
The book is written for religious trauma survivors but has resonated widely with anyone leaving high-control environments. Tia is currently working on a third book called How to Leave Anything.
Find Tia's book and also her writings on her site here!
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For those who missed our December 2025 DDP Zoom call, this is it!
I was able to reconnect with authors Kelsey McGinnis and Marissa Burt about their book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting. The conversation centers on Doug Wilson, a controversial Moscow, Idaho pastor who promotes Christian nationalism and authoritarian parenting-- including advocating spanking "reigns of terror" to guarantee children's "cheerful obedience."
We then extend that out to include the broader ecosystem of figures like Bill Gothard and James Dobson, major Christian influencers who built empires promising that formulaic Christian, "biblically-based parenting" guarantees godly outcomes.
We explore how these harmful ideologies are cyclical--repackaged by new evangelical influencers for each generation. Using fresh aesthetics and modern platforms, the core pattern remains: exploit parental fears, promise a formula based on their interpretation of the Bible, and then blame "user error" when it fails.
We also connect all of this to the evangelical purity culture, the "stay-at-home daughter" movement, and today's social media influencers pushing increasingly extreme positions. We also note that even movements like Gothard's IBLP had retention rates as low as 3% — yet somehow, the same ideas keep getting recycled for a new generation of impressionable Christians attempting to pattern both their marriages and child-rearing practices on what turns out to be deeply flawed theology.
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Find My Book Not So Shiny, Not So Happy People here on Amazon.
Email me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com
This week, I welcome new friend Timmy Joe Gibson for a deep dive into our parallel journeys: from passionate Christian ministry to atheism. Both former pastors, we share our experiences in faith: me as a Bible college teacher and PhD scholar who spent over 20 years in ministry across the US and UK, and Timmy as a charismatic pastor who grew his church from 10 people in his living room to 300 members.
We discuss our theological education at institutions like Rhema Bible Training Center and Western Seminary, our involvement in word-of-faith movements and dominion theology, and the gradual "death by a thousand cuts" that led us to question--and ultimately abandon-- everything we once believed, preached, and taught to so many others so passionately.
Our conversation explores how deeper biblical scholarship paradoxically led us away from fundamentalism, as we touch on topics like the authorship of the Gospels, the problem of slavery in scripture, conspiracy theory mindsets in Christianity, and the Satanic Panic of the 1980s.
Both of us reflect on what we've salvaged from our past. My public speaking skills now serve me as a teacher and builder, while Timmy has built a successful wedding officiant business in Kansas City. We also candidly discuss how we're now happier as atheists than we ever were as believers, focusing our energy on helping others navigate the deconstruction process, rather than engaging in angry debates with those still in the faith.
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This is a two-part podcast conversation between me and Nick from The Autistic Pod. To hear Part 2--where he interviews me--you'll have to head over to his platform to catch it.
Our discussion begins by discussing Nick's experiences with ADHD and autism, exploring how neurodivergence affects relationships, communication, and daily life. Nick shares his journey of self-diagnosis at age 42 after watching "Love on the Spectrum," and discusses the concept of "masking" - the exhausting practice of hiding one's authentic self to fit neurotypical expectations. He opens up about experiencing severe depression, the importance of honesty as a core value, and how his racing thoughts (three times more than neurotypical people) create both challenges and unique perspectives.
The conversation then delves into Nick's "Nine Rules for Life," which include principles like personal growth, accountability, avoiding toxic people, and living authentically. Both of us share relatable experiences about relationships, with Nick discussing his fiancée's C-PTSD and how they navigate their neurodivergent partnership, while I reflect on my past relationship challenges with someone likely on the spectrum.
Nick and I bonded over shared values around honesty, heavy metal music, and the struggle to balance directness with social expectations. Nick helps us to emphasize the importance of understanding neurodivergence, respecting different ways of processing the world, and finding communities that accept you for who you truly are.
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I had a great opportunity to interview Brian and Troy from the now-retired "I Was a Teenage Fundamentalist" podcast. They discuss why they ended their successful podcast after five years, with both hosts explaining they felt exhausted and had covered what they wanted to say about leaving evangelical Christianity.
The conversation explores their personal journeys of deconstructing their faith, including Troy's pivotal moment during a Buddhist meditation retreat and Brian's gradual realization over many years that the beliefs no longer held up.
Our discussion delves into several major topics including the Hillsong Church scandals in Australia, particularly Brian Houston's cover-up of his father Frank Houston's pedophilia, and the broader issues of abuse within patriarchal religious structures.
They also discuss their eye-opening episode about Keith Green and Last Days Ministries, which revealed cult-like practices that shattered their last remaining positive associations with evangelical Christianity.
The conversation concludes with reflections on rebuilding life after leaving religion, emphasizing the importance of finding new communities, being patient with yourself, and accepting that life after faith won't have the same certainty that religion once provided.
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For the inaugural episode of 2026, I reached out to returning guest Katherine Stewart, author of a 2025 book entitled Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy.
Stewart, an investigative journalist who has tracked the religious right for 17 years, argues that Christian nationalism has evolved from a fringe movement into a powerful political force waging war against democracy itself—targeting rational governance, the rule of law, and constitutional checks and balances. She traces its rise through decades of infrastructure building, massive dark money from billionaires, and the growing influence of charismatic Christianity and New Apostolic Reformation theology, which has enabled Trump's unprecedented corruption and authoritarian actions.
In her book, Stewart explores critical dimensions of this threat, including the split within the Catholic Church between progressive voices and ultra-wealthy conservatives funding hard-right messaging, groups like Moms for Liberty working to dismantle public education, and the disturbing connections between current Christian nationalist rhetoric and pro-slavery theology. She warns that while the movement claims to champion religious liberty, it actually seeks privilege for itself and suppression of dissent, threatening not only American democracy but exporting illiberalism globally.
You can reach Katherine Stewart through her website at katherinestewart.me or via email at goodnewskatherine@gmail.com.
Find a copy of Money, Lies, and God at this link on Amazon!
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The final episode of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast features a conversation with Brandt Burleson out of Houston, TX, who tells a wild story...as an employee of the Israeli Consulate in Houston a few years ago, Brandt was tasked with being an "interfaith liaison" between the State of Israel and Christians.
Sounds innocuous enough, doesn't it?
But what Brandt discovered as he settled into the job was that essentially, the Consulate was running what amounted to a sophisticated psy-op targeting Christians of all theological stripes and traditions.
By weaponizing both Christian Zionism and Christian nationalism, appealing to the deeply baked-in nature of both within Christianity, the sophisticated operation began...and I'll let Brandt tell you the rest of the story in this episode!
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If you've been the victim of spiritual abuse--experienced in a wide variety of forms--it is imperative for you to gain the language, or vocabulary, to be able to describe what exactly happened to you. Moreover, education is one of the most critical aspects on the recovery journey.
Author Katherine Spearing, with her new book A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts: The Subtle, Insidious Nature of Spiritual Abuse and Life on the Other Side, empowers those of us who have suffered at the hands of controlling, patriarchal religious figures. Katherine illuminates the path to spiritual healing and wholeness for those who are trying to reclaim their lives from the effects of coercive control--whatever it may have looked like.
In addition to defining such terms as "spiritual abuse" and "spiritual gaslighting," Katherine provides hope, help, and healing in terms of recovering their life--on the other side of controlling, and often abusive, forms of religion.
Find out more on Katherine's website here!
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This week I'm joined by my friend Rachel Bernstein, host of the IndoctriNation Podcast and author of a brand-new book entitled Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation.
Rachel's book, along with a companion notebook for journaling and self-reflection, are super helpful resources for those of us who come out of high-control religious groups, cults, or any sort of manipulative relationship. Choosing to leave these groups or destructive narcissistic relationships, as she reminds us, is one of the most difficult choices an individual can make--and it is far from easy. Or it may be that the person didn't choose to leave, but was kicked out, excommunicated, or rejected. Either way, navigating life moving forward can prove to be almost impossibly difficult.
Restart and Restore is not just a book to read and put down later--it is a guided healing journal that offers a clear framework both for self-discovery and recovery. This conversation provides an informative guide for those of us rebuilding our lives after walking away from it all.
Restart and Restore: A Journal For Survivors of Manipulation available on Amazon!
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I'm joined this week by my very good friend Stacie Rae from Canada. Herself a survivor of a narcissistic relationship, Stacie now empowers those who are seeking not only to identify what narcissism is, but how to escape and rebuild their lives after leaving it all behind.
Stacie works as a mentor and life coach providing, in her words, courses and recovery options that serve as an "alchemy of mind, body, spirit, and emotions." Recovery and empowerment after suffering through a narcissistic relationship is a holistic thing--it can't be done in isolation, and at time, we need the help of others to work through our issues and traumas.
In addition to discussing narcissism, we also delve into the question: "Is the God of the Bible a narcissist?" This is a tough question, but definitely worth asking--especially if your religious faith was defined in large part by serving an abusive deity. We also delve into trauma bonding and healing from the abuses suffered while in those relationships.
Get more information on the House of Rae Academy at this link!
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This week's conversation features Cynane Shay, who goes by the name "Taking Off The Tinfoil Hat" on social media. She's an expert on the subject of Christianity and conspiracy theories, which is incredibly timely given the current situation regarding religion and politics in today's world.
You may be familiar with evangelicals who embrace such conspiracy theories as QAnon or PizzaGate, but it turns out that this is but the tip of the iceberg. As you'll discover, not only are conspiracy theories baked into so much of Christianity, it's a feature--not a bug--of the religion itself.
Conspiracy theory thinking is nothing new--it goes back millennia, and it turns out to be a human condition. But in today's evangelicalism, with its rabid embrace of Trump and Christian nationalism, conspiracy theories are being weaponized to the detriment of democracy.
Contact Cynane through her website Taking Off The Tinfoil Hat!
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This is a great conversation featuring the co-authors of the soon-to-be-released excellent book, The Myth of Good Christian Parenting: How False Promises Betrayed a Generation of Evangelical Families by Marissa Franks Burt and Kelsey Kramer McGinnis.
These dedicated authors now conclusively demonstrate that the concept of "good Christian parenting" is indeed a myth. Worse than that, there are now a few generations of children raised in such contexts who serve as valuable case studies. They demonstrate conclusively that the fruit of much of what passed for good Christian parenting embodied many false promises.
What is the legacy of these myths that so many parents followed religiously? The fruit is unfortunate indeed: generations of children, now adults, who are estranged from their Christian parents; those who have walked away from the church and their faith as a result of their abusive and traumatic upbringing; and parents who now deeply regret following the advice of "experts" who built entire empires profiting from dispensing seemingly wise biblical advice on both parenting and child-rearing.
Order your copy of The Myth of Good Christian Parenting here on Amazon!
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This week's episode features a wide-ranging and informative conversation with my good friend and returning guest, David Johnson, host of the Skeptics and Seekers Podcast.
I've done a number of shows with David, both here and on his show, and we've teamed up a lot this year for his "Summer of Morality" series he's been doing on his platform. Speaking with David about the topics of how God commanded the Israelites to commit genocide in the Old Testament, as well as the Bible's condoning of slavery, led me to invite him back to break these issues down in further details.
For those who are contemplating deconstructing their Christian faith, or for those of us who have walked away but still have issues to process through from our past life of belief, this conversation will prove to be both thought-provoking as well as beneficial. If you want to hear more of my work with David, head over to his platform on YouTube or Square Space to catch our conversations.
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This week's episode features new friend Mikee Bridges, a former Christian rocker/grunge/punk musician who is also known for putting on the Tom Fest, an alternative Christian music festival that ran for 14 years. He also ran a Christian rock venue in Portland, OR, for many years.
After getting out of the Christian music game, Mikee went on to help found GameChurch, which attempted to reach gamers at such events as ComicCon and other venues.
But eventually, despite his decades of missional ministry efforts, as Mikee describes it, "the sh*t hit the fan"--and he began to deconstruct his entire life's belief system of evangelical Christianity.
Today, he's attempting to put the pieces all back together after losing Jesus, "my best friend," as he sees it now. If you're interested in attending the Tom Convention, this is an alternative music convention coming up next month in Southern California. Click the link below to find out more information about tickets and the venue:
Tom Convention dates, details and pricing
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In honor of my presentation at the Houston Oasis gathering on Sunday, the 24th of August, we are running a special promo sale that day on my book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work.
This weekend you'll be able to purchase the book on Amazon.com for just 99 cents!
Also, if you're able, log into the Houston Oasis live Facebook feed beginning at 10am CST to catch my presentation on religious trauma syndrome. If you can't make it to the live feed, don't worry--it will be recorded and posted up to their channel later on, so you can still catch my talk on RTS.
Find Not So Shiny Not So Happy People at this link on Amazon!
Houston Oasis Facebook Feed link
Once again I'm joined by my good friend Frank Schaeffer to discuss all things politics, religion, Christian nationalism, and the effect Trump is having on both the evangelical church and America overall.
As a passionate observer of what's going on in terms of current events--not just in America but indeed the world--Frank always has a unique take on what's happening now, and the long-term effect it may have on both.
Frank, and his famous father Francis Schaeffer, helped kickstart the evangelical anti-abortion movement in the USA in the early 1970s.
Ironically, although he couldn't have known it at the time, this was one of the foundational pieces in not only what would become the Christian Right, but also Trump's MAGA cult base. Frank is still making up for that decades later...and I think you'll enjoy this informative and educational conversation!
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Recently I reconnected with returning guest Stephen Mather, former Jehovah's Witness and co-host of the now-defunct Cult Hackers Podcast.
As an organizational psychologist, and former JW, Stephen is uniquely positioned to inform listeners on the eight markers of cults identified by Dr Robert Jay Lifton in his book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism.
Lifton's eight markers are not only time-honored in describing the various tactics used by cults and high-control groups, in addition he provides a helpful extra bit: the psychological effects of each one on the individual or follower. Thus, Stephen and I go through all eight in turn, discuss how they were applied in our various religious experiences, and talk about the psychological effects also.
Concluding the episode, we focus on recovery after leaving religion or a high-control group, offering up helpful tips and experience gained not only in our own lives, but that of others from whom we've found helpful advice.
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I finally caught up with Lucas Wilson after months of emailing each other to set up this interview. And am I ever glad that I did! We had a fantastic conversation that I truly believe you will enjoy and learn a lot from.
Lucas--or Luke--originally hails from Toronto, Canada, and as a young man ended up attending Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, with a view to engaging in so-called "conversion therapy." This is the controversial notion that somehow, if you're gay or have same-sex attraction on any level, God wants to "make you straight." Not only that, but by doing conversion therapy, it will definitely happen.
Aided by dubious psychological and biblical backing, conversion therapy can be incredibly damaging to those in the LGBTQ+ community, but who also happen to be Christians. This misguided theory oftentimes does a huge amount of damage psychologically and in other ways.
Find Luke's book here: Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivor's Stories of Conversion Therapy
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Recently, a listener asked me if I would explore the potential connections between Vance Boelter--the gunman who recently killed 2 Democratic lawmakers in Minnesota, and wounded 2 more--and the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).
The question posed was this: "Was Vance Boelter radicalized by his experiences within the NAR?" Beyond that, how do we know that Boelter was in fact a part of this increasingly radical movement that has taken the Christian Right by storm since the first Trump era? And did that association with the NAR's increasingly violent and incendiary rhetoric lead him to go on his rampage that resulted in the deaths of two people, and the severe wounding of two others?
In this deep dive episode, I investigate the connections not only between Boelter and the NAR, but also to the tragic and violent history of the violence committed by radical Christian anti-abortion advocates.
I'll also demonstrate just how extreme and violent the language being used by leading NAR figures is becoming, and how that all may have contributed to Boelter doing what he did.
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Although Chris Shelton and I just did an episode on Project Esther recently, there were a lot of details that we didn't have time to dive into. As the story develops, and more information comes out, there have been some truly concerning developments that have taken place.
Thus, in this special episode, I'm bringing you all the details behind Project Esther. This is, of course, the brainchild of The Heritage Foundation, authors of Project 2025.
If you've noticed the trend on both social and mainstream media of labeling anyone "antisemitic" for speaking out against Israel's actions in Gaza, or taking part in a demonstration or protest, then this is the fruit of Project Esther. Trump's ongoing war against Harvard is part and parcel of it also.
As we'll see, Trump has already enacted about one-half of the policy recommendations as laid out in Project Esther, a draconian set of actions that is designed to tamp down on--or obliterate entirely--our constitutional rights, such as: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and the right to due process.
Let me know your thoughts, comments, or questions on this episode by emailing me: dismantlingdoctrine@gmail.com.
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In this special bonus episode, former Scientologist Chris Shelton and I take a deep dive into a controversial new development in Trumpworld: Project Esther.
This story originally broke a few weeks ago in The New York Times, and has now been picked up in other media outlets. The brainchild of The Heritage Foundation, authors of Project 2025 and major policy advisors to Trump, Project Esther is a policy paper ostensibly designed to crack down on antisemitism in the United States.
Timed to coincide with the one-year anniversary of the Hamas attack on Israel, Project Esther is in reality a bait-and-switch operation designed to eliminate basic rights such as free speech, freedom of assembly, due process for foreign students targeted for deportation, and more. We're also seeing the potential of cutting off federal funds to universities like Harvard for their "handling of antisemitism" as well as their tolerance of pro-Palestine demonstrations on campus.
The truly frightening aspect of this draconian crackdown is that it's already in the works--approximately half of its policy recommendations have been enacted by Trump.
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This week's episode features an insightful conversation with Regina Cates, author of the book The Real Conversation Jesus Wants Us To Have: A Call To Bravery, Peace, and Love.
At first, when I heard the title of the book, I was understandably sceptical. I figured Regina was just another progressive Christian trying to rehabilitate the church, the gospels, and the "true" message of Jesus. But that's not what her book is about, and neither is that what this conversation is about.
Regina is an amazing woman with a powerful story to tell of her own Christian upbringing, deconstructing at an early age, and questioning everything she was taught by the church. That led to inevitable conflict from both parents and church authorities...and now, here she is, decades later, with a powerful message to proclaim.
Find a copy of Regina's book here on Amazon!
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Christian nationalism, by its very nature, is anti-democratic.
I have come to believe that not only is this true, but it poses a serious threat to democracy not just in America, but indeed the world. With Donald Trump back in power--aided and abetted by another overwhelming majority of evangelicals--we are seeing the guardrails blown through and democracy gutted.
Behind a lot of it is the notion that "Christians should take dominion over the world"--and in particular, the so-called "7 mountains of culture." Driven by agendas such as The Heritage Foundation's "Project 2025" and the America First Policy Institute, these Christian nationalist think tanks are providing Trump with much of the agendas, policies, and Executive Orders we've already seen that are driving his administration forward.
Dr Matthew Boedy--himself a Christian--is an expert on this subject, having researched it extensively in preparation for writing his upcoming book, The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy.
It comes out in September, but you can pre-order it here on Amazon on this link.
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It's finally arrived!
This week's long-overdue discussion is here, featuring a super informative and helpful conversation with Tim Mills, host of "The Harmonic Atheist" podcast and YouTube channel.
As a faithful Christian virtually all of his life, Tim has an unbelievable testimony--and this is not just about how dedicated he was both to God and the church. It also includes his tale of what led to his deconstruction, leaving the faith and becoming an atheist, and now as one who speaks out against the damage Christianity can often do.
But beyond merely dismantling aspects of the Christian faith, Tim also offers up incredibly helpful insights to help you recover from the harmful effects of religion and begin to recover your authentic self.
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This episodes features a wide-ranging and super helpful discussion with Austra Putnina, host of the "Chase The Impossible" podcast.
Originally from Latvia, Austra now lives in Estonia--and has an amazing backstory. Ever struggle with the impostor syndrome? Ever struggle with those "tapes" that seem to play all the time in your mind? The ones that hold you back, the insidious messages that constantly tell us we're not good enough, that we don't measure up to some standard?
It turns out that Austra has battled not only these issues, but more...and when she shares her journey, not only will you be inspired, hopefully you'll pick up some great coping strategies to help you navigate life along the way.
Connect with Austra on Udemy!
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I'm excited to be sharing the next two chapters from my book that came out last September. It's called Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work, and was edited by my good friend Tim Sledge.
If you haven't picked up a copy of the book yet, hopefully hearing these two chapters will make the decision much easier. The book tells my story of growing up in a fundamentalist Christian home that, although looking great on the outside, wasn't so shiny and happy.
Enjoy these two chapters and please let me know what your thoughts are about the content!
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This episode features an insightful conversation with former Southern Baptist Convention pastor--and now exvangelicala life coach and guide--Rob Connelly.
After spending 37 years as a dedicated evangelical Christian, serving as a worship leader and pastor, Rob finally deconstructed his faith and walked away from it all. He's now sharing not only his reflective music with the world, he helps individuals surviving religious abuse and religious trauma syndrome.
Listen in at the end of the show for Rob's original song, "Good Friday" and see if you resonate with its heartfelt message.
Connect with Rob on his website!
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In this episode I'm joined once again by my very good friend, Chris Shelton, to revisit the issue of Trump's Project 2025 agenda.
How concerned should you be, going forward?
Last summer I started alerting listeners about the dangers posed by Project 2025's Mandate for Leadership, all designed as part of The Heritage Foundation's "presidential transition project" should Trump win the presidency.
Now that he has been sworn in, and signed a blizzard of Executive Orders, many of these follow closely the Project 2025 policy agendas. Chris and I break down not only what some of these are, and who is behind them, but unpack also some of the wider dangers posed to American democracy over the next four years.
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Welcome to the first episode of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast for 2025!
This inaugural episode features a catch-up conversation with two old friends, Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. They are the authors of the classic 1978 work on cults and mind control entitled Snapping: America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change.
Their research into cult psychology and tactics led them, in the late 1970s and early 80s, to investigate what was then the nascent Christian Right's involvement in American politics. They also noticed how much evangelicalism and fundamentalist Christianity had in common with the world of the cults.
Currently they've released an update to their original 1982 book Holy Terror: The Fundamentalist War on America's Freedoms in Religion, Politics, and Our Private Lives. The "classic edition," which is now available, gives the reader new perspectives on the evangelical involvement in the Trump era.
Find the new version of Holy Terror now available on Amazon!
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For this final podcast of 2024, I recently connected with Lauryn Axelrod--she's an interfaith/interspiritual minister, chaplain, spiritual director, and teacher out of Vermont.
This is an especially poignant interview, as I've talked to several people this year about concepts of spirituality. Lauryn's suggestion that incorporating "Ten Words" into your life, as guiding principles or values, can indeed make the world a better place. This is all the more relevant now that America is so deeply divided and polarized, both politically and religiously.
The question is: what can all the major religious worldviews and traditions teach us about spirituality? Dogma and doctrines aside, are there commonalities behind them all from which we can gain insights and understanding? And above all--is it indeed possible to make the world a better place by embracing interspirituality?
Find out more about Lauryn on her site https://www.laurynaxelrod.com/
Get a copy of Lauryn's Book Ten Words on Amazon!
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I recently caught up with returning guest Cait West, who has just come out with a great book entitled Rift: A Memoir of Breaking Away From Christian Patriarchy.
Cait grew up in what is called the "stay-at-home-daughters" movement, which is a version of Christian patriarchy that, while seemingly extreme, is gaining traction in a lot of Christian homes.
Driven by the teachings of men like Doug Wilson, Joel Webbon, and other leading evangelical figures, Christian or biblical patriarchy teaches that women should be in submission to their fathers and husbands--exactly what they believe the Bible teaches clearly.
What is more concerning is that now, with Donald Trump in office for the next 4 years, Christian nationalists now have even more influence over laws and policies that affect Americans. That they want to run the government the same ways in which they run their churches, denominations, and families should be of major concern to everyone going forward.
Find out more information about Cait's book here: https://www.caitwest.com/book
Check out the "For Our Daughters" documentary here on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkES4X_qb6c
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This week's guest features author Karen Unrue, whose book Blue Jellyfish Syndrome: How To Break Free From Stigma and Maintain Hope While Living With a Mental Illness is a great resource for those who have left either controlling religion or abusive relationships behind.
But simply escaping is far from the end of the story. We can still be triggered by intrusive thoughts from our past that are debilitating and can blindside us. Unpicking the layers of conditioning is also extremely difficult, especially for those of us raised in controlling religious environments.
And it's also the impact of the various traumas we've experienced that oftentimes linger with us for decades, long after the event that caused it is years in the past. Karen offers practical advice, helpful insights, and valuable resources to help us move forward and rebuild our authentic selves.
Get a copy of Karen's book on Amazon!
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In this special election special bonus episode, I reached out to returning guest Matthew D Taylor, who has just come out with a brand-new book called The Violent Take it by Force: The Christian Movement that is Threatening Our Democracy.
For those who are still undecided about their vote in the upcoming election, this is a must-listen. Given the fact that so much of the Trump MAGA support is generated by not just Christian nationalists, but extremists who are part of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), this is a major concern going forward.
Matthew puts all the pieces together in this hugely informative discussion, telling the story of exactly how these so-called "apostles and prophets" coalesced together and found themselves part of Trump's inner circle of spiritual advisers during his presidency. Now, they are mobilizing tens of thousands of angry evangelicals not only to vote for Trump, but to engage in political violence should he lose the election. The threat to American democracy is clear, and these people have had four years to prepare themselves for whatever happens following this hugely important election.
Find The Violent Take it by Force here on Amazon!
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This week's episode takes an in-depth look at the tragic murder/suicide that took place in Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978. Cult leader Jim Jones was responsible for not only controlling and manipulating his numerous dedicated followers, in the end, he forced nearly 1000 of them to commit suicide or be murdered.
In the wake of this tragedy that occurred decades ago, Annie Dawid's book--a work of historical fiction--takes a fresh look at the lives of the followers of Jones. Not much is said about them, yet they were the backbone of the movement that on certain levels did accomplish many good things for a number of people.
Beyond discussing her book, we also take a look at Jones's story, tracing the early start of The People's Temple in Indiana, looking at its moves to California and ultimately Guyana. That it ended in such a shocking way still has enduring lessons for us today, especially in the explosion of cults and cult leaders since the tragedy at Jonestown all those years ago.
Find Annie's book on Amazon here:
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If you've been following the storyline of what's happening to Project 2025, The Heritage Foundation, and Trump's presidential campaign, then you'll be familiar with some of what Chris Shelton and I discuss in this episode.
There have been a number of important developments in this ongoing narrative, as Project 2025 began to be increasingly exposed by shows just like this one as well as on the mainstream media. Since then, not only has Trump attempted to deny and distance himself from it--as well as The Heritage Foundation--some other players have quietly stepped into the breach with a newly-proposed "presidential transition project."
Not only do we discuss this new twist, we delve into the cult psychology and tactics used by such shadowy groups, but also of Trump himself, as he controls, manipulates, and influences his ultra-loyal MAGA cult base.
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How many of us have left religious beliefs behind, but have not entertained the idea that we might be able to find an aspect of spirituality that is truly meaningful?
For those of us who've left controlling religions, it can be incredibly difficult even to entertain the notion that there might even be any aspect of spirituality that is appealing to us. But we might be closing ourselves off to deeper meaning and exploration if we refuse to acknowledge that there just might be something out there.
Author Larry Jordan was a successful businessman who turned his back on the American dream, embracing service to others and in the process read over 1,000 books researching and exploring philosophy, religion, mysticism, and more. In the process he discovered something that truly changed his life--find out more in this fascinating interview!
Find Larry's book The Way: Meaningful Spirituality for a Modern World here on Amazon.
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For the first time ever, my show has been hijacked!
My very good friend Tim Sledge, who is the editor and publisher of my new book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work interviewed me recently about my book.
Aside from me, there is nobody else on Earth who knows more about my book, as we have been working closely on it for about a year now. Tim is not only intimately connected with the book, as a former evangelical pastor and ex-Christian himself, Tim resonates a great deal with my story.
I hope you enjoy this interview--and please, if you do buy a copy of my book on Amazon, do me a huge favor and leave a review! That helps greatly with the Amazon rankings.
Link to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People on Amazon
If the link doesn't work, on Amazon type in "Not So Shiny Not So Happy People Clint Heacock" and it will quickly locate the book.
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I'm excited to announce that my new book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work is now available as of today!!
The book is available as a paperback, Kindle EBook, and Audible Virtual Voice versions now.
In this special episode, I'm reading the Preface chapter to the book, which is called "The Terror of an Empty House." I hope that not only do you enjoy this chapter, but that it prompts you to go out and buy the book.
After you've read it, please leave a review on Amazon, which greatly helps with the book's rankings--and share the book with anyone who you think will resonate with its message.
Here's the link on Amazon to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People.
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For those of us who came out of fundamentalist Christianity, what happens when things go badly wrong in our lives? Do you have the temptation to pray, read the Bible, seek out a wise Christian counselor to discover answers for why this is happening to you?
Within evangelicalism, the problem of suffering is a huge issue. There always has to be "an answer" as to why God allows--or even causes--bad things to happen to us. There must be a reason!
My good friend Dean Krosecz and I break down this very topic after Dean shares about the traumatic experiences he's gone through in the last few years. Where was "God" in all of it? And can you create peace in the midst of suffering, alone without a supposedly benevolent being to lean on for support?
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A few months ago I caught up with author Tia Levings to discuss her new book, A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy. Tia is perhaps best known for her viral TikTok video, "Fundy Baby Voice"--and she knows what she's talking about.
A product of the Bill Gothard "cult without walls," Tia was raised in the "modesty culture" and taught what it meant to be a "well-trained wife"--the so-called tradwife tradition so familiar to the Christian patriarchy and Quiverfull cultures.
But after experiencing severe cognitive dissonance when comparing how she was raised versus how she was expected to raise her own children, Tia began to question--and ultimately escaped--this cult-like environment.
Tia's Book Now Available on Amazon!
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Months ago I had a great conversation with author and adrenaline junkie, Ryan George. Following on in the trend of interviewing more progressive Christians--after chatting with Keith Giles recently--this seemed like a great time to drop this episode.
Although he's been able to reclaim a version of Christianity for himself, Ryan and I found that we have a lot in common when comparing our upbringings within Christianity. Ryan grew up in an IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) tradition with a dad who was a pastor, and was also involved in the Bill Gothard IBLP cult.
After suffering spiritual abuse and other forms of religious trauma, and walking away from the faith and church for years, how did Ryan recover his faith? Find out more in this great conversation!
Check out Ryan's site for more information on his book and his life!
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This week's conversation features author, podcaster, and "freelance theologian" Keith Giles, who--although definitely no evangelical Christian--has moved past even being a progressive Christian.
What does that make him? I don't know exactly, but it does make for a fascinating conversation with someone who has deconstructed his former fundamentalist beliefs. Keith is also a scholar, which makes the conversation about his new book The Quantum Sayings of Jesus a fascinating one.
Which Jesus? Which gospel? And how does the Gospel of Thomas fit into that whole discussion? As a very progressive Christian, Keith has some great insights on the state of evangelicalism today, Christian nationalism and more.
Check out Keith's blog on Patheos for more information!
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This week's episode features a fascinating conversation with Marissa Hackett, who grew up in a right-wing cult started by controversial radio host, Roy Masters. Originally starting out in the early 1960s, Masters spread his message nationwide through his radio show, tapes, and book sales.
Based originally out of Los Angeles, Masters bought a ranch near Grants Pass, Oregon, in 1979--and urged his followers to move there. Along with connections to survivalists, conspiracy theories, and far-right political ideas, Masters acted as a form of messianic cult leader.
He performed exorcisms, taught that women are subordinate to men, and that all problems in a family are the fault of the mother. Thus, Marissa grew up in a controlling environment combined with a strong message behind it...and somehow, she survived and is doing well today.
Connect with Marissa on her "Breaking the Cycle" Substack.
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In this conversation with journalist and author Sarah McCammon, we discuss her book that just came out in March, called The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church.
Not only does Sarah do a masterful job of explaining why so many "exvangelicals" have left the white evangelical church behind, she shares her own story of growing up evangelical, deconstructing, and ultimately walking away from her childhood faith.
Along the way, Sarah's work blends diligent research with authentic examples of why people like her, and so many others, have simply had enough--for whatever reason--and couldn't deal with the cognitive dissonance, the "tension points" in their belief system, or whatever it was that led them to make the difficult decision to abandon their cherished belief system.
Find Sarah's book here on Amazon!
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In this special bonus episode, I caught up with returning guest, Dr Sheri Pallas, as we discussed her brand-new book that just dropped on the 2nd of May, 2024. It's titled We Have Ruined God: My Journey Out of Religion and Into Unconditional Love, and from the conversation we had, it sounds like a fascinating and intriguing book.
Why should people contemplate leaving religion, and their harmful dogmas and teachings, behind? Sheri takes a look at this issue and concludes that it is largely humanity that has "ruined God," in effect. But which God, exactly? The God of the Bible, or the deity (or deities) represented by any number of other religious belief systems?
Beyond that, we talk about what "unconditional love" actually looks like, in practice, and why that is a far superior life philosophy than toxic religious doctrines.
Buy Sheri's book on Amazon at this link--and if you do buy it, please leave a review!
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I truly hope that you enjoy this great collaborative episode I recently did with Anna and Kari Jo, hosts of the fantastic Heretical Hippies podcast!
We covered a lot of ground about their backstory, deconstruction of their former faith, and what they are doing--and believing--currently. I believe this will be a helpful discussion for all those who have questioned their inherited beliefs and are wondering what lies ahead.
Part 2, their interview of me, is available on their platform--here's the link.
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Once again I'm joined by investigative journalist Jenny Cohn, who does a lot of writing for the Bucks County Beacon. Jenny has been on the show before and in this instance, I reached out to her because she's done a lot of work exposing and unmasking the agenda behind Project 2025.
What if Donald Trump were to win the presidential election in November? Aside from casting an authoritarian vision for his administration going forward, perhaps the biggest concern is that this time, he and the GOP have learned from the mistakes they made the last time.
This time around, Trump has an army of willing acolytes and sycophants who are already working hard to help him achieve his agenda from Day 1 in office. To that end, the Heritage Foundation has created Project 2025--and this is something that every American voter needs to educate themselves about.
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This week's episode features a wide-ranging discussing with Jonathan Davis, an ex-evangelical former pastor and seminary professor who deconstructed his former faith, questioned everything, and is on the journey.
Ironically, it was closely studying his Bible that started Jonathan on this path of unpacking all his inherited beliefs and discovering his own identity in the process.
Raised fundamentalist and homeschooled also, Jonathan served for a decade as a youth pastor, did another ten as a pastor, and finally started up a seminary before the entire ball of yarn began to unravel.
For more information check out Jonathan's site.
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Welcome to a riveting Patreon-only episode of the MindShift Podcast, where we delve into the obscure but influential Project 2025. Explored through extensive research and interviews with high-profile figures such as Jenny Cohn and Andra Watkins, this episode unveils startling details about the project believed to have major implications for the future of American politics.
The episode showcases a detailed analysis of Project 2025, a well-funded initiative with solid links to conservative and Christian right organizations. The project, known for its foundational four pillars, seeks to direct future conservative policies and significantly influence American politics.
At the center of this episode is the powerful Heritage Foundation, one of America's most influential public policy think tanks that has played a significant role in shaping conservative presidential policies since the Reagan Era. We delve deep into its history, its "Mandate for Leadership" and seven policy priorities, revealing an ardent alignment with traditional conservative values and its opposition to perceived radical leftist policies.
As we delve further into "Project 2025", an alarming proliferation of Christian Nationalism takes center stage, advocating for a scripture-based form of governance and legislation drastically aligning with conservative Christian beliefs. The episode, while discussing the project's extremist views on issues ranging from abortion to immigration policies and pornography, emphasizes the need for careful assessment of the potential seismic shift that comes alongside these beliefs.
From the uncovering of the grand intentions of Project 2025 to turn the entire U.S. executive branch under the president's direct control to a critical examination of the network of organizations that have painstakingly collaborated with Project 2025, a narrative of impending changes in the political landscape unfolds. The episode concludes with an urgent call to action for listeners to understand and question the potential seismic shift this project could bring to America's political and social landscape.
This episode of MindShift Podcast is an intense expedition into the workings of Project 2025. It is a comprehensive compilation of evidence against dangerous agendas and a guide into the inner workings of powerful organizations and individuals pushing for radical changes in American policies and ideologies.
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Recently I reached out to my good friend--and returning guest--Frank Schaeffer, who has a very unique perspective on what's happening in the Trump/Christian Right world.
As a former player himself in the late 1970s and early 80s, along with his famous father Francis, they helped to kickstart the evangelical anti-abortion movement. They were also instrumental in helping get the early Christian Right off the ground in their efforts to mobilize Christians to take political action.
Now? Frank is, in his own words, "an atheist who believes in God..." and yet has a lot to say when it comes to exactly how the rabid followers of Trump are playing their endgame. The problem is this: what happens if they win? Is that a world you want to live in?
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I finally caught up with author and ex-evangelical Wren Story a few weeks ago. I have long followed her on Facebook and always resonated with much of what she writes about, since we have a lot in common!
In this episode, Wren and I discuss not only her backstory growing up in an evangelical church setting, we'll also get into how she ended up getting out, as well as discovering--or perhaps recovering?--her authentic self.
If like Wren you've left religion behind, but are struggling with your identity, I believe you will get a lot out of this conversation.
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If you have seen the Amazon Prime documentary "Shiny Happy People," then you'll benefit from this Patreon-only exclusive episode.
I do a deep dive into the background of this toxic and damaging teaching, as well as exploring the Bill Gothard Institutes in Basic Life Principles connection to it all. If like me, you were raised in this movement, then you're most likely suffering from some form of religious trauma syndrome, or have encountered abuses also.
This content and more are exclusively available for Patreon supporters of MindShift Podcast. To support the show click this link: Join the MindShift Patreon Community!
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Recently I reached out to returning guest Katherine Stewart, author of The Power Worshipers and The Good News Club, for a chat about the new Rob Reiner film, "God and Country." In the movie, Reiner takes a good hard look at Christian nationalism, and how elements of the more extreme side of the movement have affected not just America, but indeed the world. It turns out that the film is essentially based on Stewart's work--so she is, once again, the perfect person to chat with about these concerning trends in American politics and religion. Kyle Mantila has an excellent article on this on the Right Wing Watch website. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018
I recently caught up with Dr Matthew Taylor, senior scholar at the Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies (ICJS) in Baltimore. When it comes to the roots of the NAR--the New Apostolic Reformation--7 mountains mandate dominion theology, and more, Taylor is an absolute fount of information on these subjects, as you'll discover in this episode. Moreover, what's even more concerning is that the new GOP Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, has longstanding affiliations with a number of NAR "prophets" and others in that camp who have long pushed their views that Christians should take dominion over society and politics. That he's also a Trump-supporting evangelical, third in line for the presidency, is yet another major concern. To find more of Matthew's articles, click this Substack link to read more. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow Matthew on X @TaylorMatthewD Follow me on X @MindShift2018
This week's episode features a conversation with author Sarah Hayward (no relation to David Hayward, "the Naked Pastor!") Sarah's book Giving Up God is all about walking away from organized religion, in this case Christianity, and yet trying to discover a sense of authentic spirituality. For those of us who left a controlling religion behind, the idea of "spirituality" may be the last thing on our minds. But Sarah has an interesting take on the whole thing...I think you'll enjoy this refreshing conversation! Find Sarah's Book Here on LakeDrive Books Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018
This episode marks now the second time I've done a crossover episode with Rachel Bernstein, host of the fantastic IndoctriNation podcast.
As a therapist, cult expert, and specialist in dealing with folks who suffer from religious trauma syndrome, Rachel is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to dealing with a wide variety of issues caused by cults, fundamentalist religions, and other high-control groups.
If you suffer from RTS, or have come out of a controlling religious or group background, you'll benefit from this discussion. And don't forget to head over to the IndoctriNation podcast platform to catch Part 1, Rachel's interview of me!
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MindShift Podcast is officially back for 2024! And what better way to kick off another season of the show than to catch up with an old friend, Peter Montgomery of the Right Wing Watch? In this first episode, Peter and I conduct a wide-ranging, thorough overview of the end of 2023 and look forward into this year, discussing the agenda of the Christian Right moving forward into 2024, which is a hugely important election year. Backing Trump to the hilt--at least most evangelicals anyway--they are poised to "take dominion" moving forward. But what exactly does that mean, and more importantly, what does it look like if they win the Presidency again? Listen in to find out more! Support the Show by Joining the MIndShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow Peter on X @PeteMont Follow me on X @MindShift2018
As a recent guest on Joshua's excellent podcast, "The Mediocre Observer," I was happy to return the favor and have Joshua on the show. I hope you enjoy this, the final episode of MindShift Podcast for 2023!
In this wide-ranging discussion, Joshua and I discuss, among other things, why he was terrified to pick the wrong God in his quest for spirituality and enlightenment. So why didn't it work for him? Why did his quest fail, with the result that he's now an atheist speaking out against the dangers of religion and the Christian Right in American politics?
Find out more--and enjoy the episode with me on Josh's show, which can be found on themediocreobserver.com.
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I've finally managed to catch up with one of my favorite Canadians, David Hayward "The Naked Pastor." As an ex-pastor and ex-evangelical like me, author and cartoonist David is best known for his irreverent but incredibly poignant cartoons depicting a huge array of theological and churchly issues. They cause people to think, to question, to ponder questions of their faith and church experiences, as well as potentially leading to deconstructing their faith or belief system. As always, David and I have a wide-ranging conversation about a number of topics, issues, and questions. I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did! Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018
This week's episode features a great conversation with a returning guest, historian Dr Warren Throckmorton. From our previous conversation a few years ago, he's had a longstanding issue with the Christian nationalist "historian" David Barton of WallBuilders. Back in 2012, Barton's book The Jefferson Lies was pulled from the bookshelves by its Christian publisher, amid claims by Throckmorton and other evangelical historians that his take on Jefferson was wildly historically inaccurate. Recently, Throckmorton and his co-author Michael Coulter, have updated their original book Getting Jefferson Right, coming out with a 2nd edition including new information, as well as a look at Stephen Wolfe's book, The Case for Christian Nationalism. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! More information on Getting Jefferson Right Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018
Katherine North is an amazing woman--she grew up as a missionary kid in Japan, but all her life as a young girl she struggled with a major problem: she couldn't bring herself to believe the message of the Christian gospel. What did she do about it? As the title of the episode suggests, she deconstructed in a major way...and since then, has spent decades of her life putting the pieces back together. Now an author, coach and more, Katherine is a fantastic resource for those of us struggling to discover, or re-discover, our authentic identity after leaving religion behind. Katherine's Website DeclareDominion.com Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018 Follow Katherine on X @DeclareDominion
Once again, I'm joined by my good friend Tim Sledge, who like me is an ex-pastor who has since walked away from both the church and the Christian faith.
This week we're discussing his excellent book, Four Disturbing Questions with One Simple Answer, which has a lot of resonance with me as an ex-Christian. Tim poses four questions that anyone who is in the process of deconstructing, or for that matter even questioning, any aspect of their faith should consider.
Enjoy this chat and let me know what you think!
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Thanks to my good friend Janice Selbie, she introduced me to David Morris, who used to be an employee of some of the biggest Christian publishing houses.
David has since walked away from the faith and his career--at least as a Christian publisher, that is. He's now publishing books largely written by, and for, ex-evangelicals, in some way to make up for his past life's accomplishments as an evangelical working within the machine that is Christian publishing.
This is a wide-ranging and fascinating conversation covering a lot of topics--I hope you enjoy! And don't forget, David will be our guest for the October MindShift Zoom call coming up on the 29th, so you'll have a chance to meet and chat with him.
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This show is Part 2 of a crossover episode that I've absolutely enjoyed recording. It features the second half of my conversation with Rachael and Molly, the co-hosts of the Cheers to Leaving podcast.
Before listening to this conversation, head over to their platform to catch Part 1!
In this chat, we discuss what it was like to grow up in a fundamentalist Christian home, compare spanking stories and numbers of baptisms, and more. As adults, we're still dealing with the religious traumas caused by our upbringing and time within Christianity.
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Is it really true that evangelicals are known as “the people without questions”? That theology can quickly turn into ideology? And why are so many evangelicals willing to believe in increasingly outlandish, unproven conspiracy theories? My guest this week, Jared ... Read More »
This week's episode features not just one returning guest, but two! I brought back David Johson, host of the Skeptics and Seekers podcast, and Gary Hudson, author of Surrender to Reason, to discuss a few burning topics. One of my listeners asked me a question a few months ago: "Why does Jesus always seem to get a free pass when Christians are deconstructing their faith?" He's seen as a wise guru, a great teacher, one who imparted a great deal of instructions that people everywhere should follow. Even among atheists and agnostics, he's viewed with a lot of respect. But was he such a great teacher, after all? Gary, David and I not only tackle this question, we also delve into the topic of whether or not Jesus could have been some form of a cult leader. By deconstructing a lot of his so-called "wise sayings," this opens up a new line of inquiry you may have never considered previously. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Contact Information Follow me on X (formerly Twitter) @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
This week's show comes with an obvious trigger warning related to an account of grooming and sexual abuse of a minor. Emilie Paige tells her horrific story of how she was groomed and finally abused by one of the teachers in Doug Wilson's Logos School out of Moscow, ID. Sadly, we've seen too many examples of what can happen within these deeply patriarchal religious environments, which oftentimes are rife for abuses of all kinds.
What's truly amazing is that in listening to Emilie's story of surviving horrific abuse for years, she's not only come out the back end a stronger woman who is unafraid to share her story, but also speaks of the religious element also. In so doing, she is undoubtedly empowering, inspiring, and helping many who have gone through similar terrible experiences.
Emilie's Medium Page Link
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This week's episode features a conversation with Charles Utter, author of Roman Collar Crime: VIOLATED: The Transgressions of a Small-Town Priest.
Charles tells the tragic and quite honestly unbelievable story of a priest who preyed on his victims in a small town in South Dakota. Although the book is "fictional," the story is based on a real priest that ran both the parish church as well as a Catholic school in the small town in which he grew up. Thus, the story is based on actual events that Charles investigated, and on which ultimately based his book.
You can order the book on Amazon at this link:
Or for more information, look up the "Roman Collar Crime" Facebook page.
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This conversation features Frankie Tease, who grew up in a New Age cult called Morningland out of Southern California, back in the 1970s and 80s. Not only did she experience most, if not all, the classic markers of cults, she survived, escaped, and has since dedicated years to rebuilding her life.
Although you may not have experienced life within a New Age cult, you'll see that all the typical tactics are used. We discuss not only those, but how they affected Frankie on multiple levels. I'm sure you'll get a lot out of this conversation.
Read more about Frankie's story in this article!
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This episode tells a truly unbelievable true story, as shared by abduction and abuse survivor Dawn McCarty. Added to that was the religious trauma syndrome she had to deal with as part of the LDS cult, and you have a situation that few would survive and stay sane. Not on ly did she survive, she's now in a position to help others who come out of highly traumatic backgrounds. Above all, this is a story of the strength of the human will overcoming tremendous adversities. Read more about Dawn's story in the book Transforming Pain Into Purpose available on Amazon. Become a Patreon supporter of MindShift Podcast! Contact Information Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the public MindShift Podcast Facebook page
In this monster, 2+ hour episode, I take a VERY deep dive into the backstory of what led Doug Wilson and his co-author, Steven Wilkins, to write their hugely controversial 1996 booklet, Southern Slavery, As it Was. If you love ... Read More »
Once again I'm catching up with my very good friend Dr Terri Daniel to promote her outstanding conference being held in July--the Conference on Death, Grief, and Belief.
Terri and I not only preview some of the amazing speakers at this year's conference, but we also delve into these important topics of death, grief, and belief, and how it all somehow ties into people's religious worldviews. These aspects are especially noticeable when it comes to issues like death, dealing with grief, and trying to understand suffering.
One more thing--listen carefully at the end, and Terri will give you a discount code to save a bit of money on this upcoming conference!
The Conference on Death, Grief, and Belief
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I recently caught up with a good friend and ex-pastor, Gary Hudson. Gary is the author of the 2018 workSurrender to Reason: New Testament Studies that Disputed Faith.
In it, Gary charts how he, as an evangelical pastor, came to question–and ultimately walk away from–his lifelong Christian faith. Ironically, it was in studying the Bible in preparation for a sermon that started his questioning of the inspiration, inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible.
Once that house of cards started to collapse, the inevitable happened…Gary walked away from both decades of faithful ministry and his Christian faith to boot.
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I recently caught up with a good friend and ex-pastor, Gary Hudson. Gary is the author of the 2018 work Surrender to Reason: New Testament Studies that Disputed Faith. In it, Gary charts how he, as an evangelical pastor, came to question--and ultimately walk away from--his lifelong Christian faith. Ironically, it was in studying the Bible in preparation for a sermon that started his questioning of the inspiration, inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. Once that house of cards started to collapse, the inevitable happened...Gary walked away from both decades of faithful ministry and his Christian faith to boot. Become a part of the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This week's guest is ex-cult member Vennie Kocsis, who grew up in the fundamentalist Bible cult founded by Sam Fife--the Move of God, or just "The Move."
Reaching its heyday in the mid-1970s, not only was it growing, it was reaching into the mainstream of society also. Focusing heavily on an end-times, apocalyptic message, Fife's group seemingly started out innocently enough...but ultimately descended into a high-control religious group, complete with compounds, guns, and long working hours for its adherents.
Vennie grew up in the midst of that--and ultimately escaped and began the difficult journey of rebuilding her life, post-cult. This is a story of survival of horrific abuses, but just as equally, a story of the triumph of the human will over incredible adversity.
Find out more about Vennie on her website
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After a few years’ break, I finally caught up with my good friend Frank Schaeffer, who of course is the son of the famous Francis Schaeffer. His father not only shaped my views as an evangelical, but indeed an entire generation–and together with Frank, helped kickstart the “pro-life,” anti-abortion evangelical movement in America.
Frank and I discuss not only his work in light of the overturning of Roe v. Wade–something he predicted with the installation of Supreme Court justice Amy Coney Barrett during the Trump era–we also dive into gun rights, mass shootings, and the collateral damage these issues are causing in our world today.
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Having just been on Chris's great show, the Sensibly Speaking Podcast, it was time to return the favor and have him back on MindShift!
As an ex-Scientologist who's been out of the cult for over 10 years, and having run his show for the last 7 or 8 years exposing the inner workings of the cult, Chris is uniquely placed to provide insights into the group.
Not only do we break down the early history of the Church of Scientology and its founder, L Ron Hubbard, we delve into the psychology and tactics used by Scientology to control and coerce its adherents.
Even if you've never had anything to do with Scientology, you'll still benefit from this discussion if you're recovering from religion. Join us on the 23rd of April as Chris returns for our next MindShift Zoom call by supporting the show on Patreon--the link is below.
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This week’s conversation is with self-professed liberal Christian and writer for Salon, Nate Manderson.
Nate and I had a great chat about his backstory, how he came to walk away from fundamentalist Christianity, and now how his writing is taking on the mainstream evangelical church in America today. Having sold most of its soul to Trumpism, Christian nationalism and a dominionist dream, what’s next? Is there any hope for the church, going forward?
In his role as “pastor to the public,” Nate uses his platform to write incisive critiques of what evangelicalism has become today. I hope you enjoy this chat and hopefully we’ll see Nate again on an upcoming MindShift Zoom call!
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Welcome to this, our FINAL instalment in the ongoing and exhaustive look into controversial pastor and influencer, Doug Wilson. This episode begins by defining and discussing the similarities and differences between the "complementarian" and "biblical patriarchy" views, assesses Wilson's views in light of that overview, then moves into a definition of the "manosphere." What exactly is it? And why is it even important to look at? Turns out that the toxic message of biblical patriarchy is moving into the secular "manosphere"--and if you've never heard of it, after this episode, I believe you'll be more concerned than you were at the beginning. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
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We're nearly finished with our deep dive into controversial pastor--cult leader?--Doug Wilson out of Moscow, Idaho. This week's episode features an absolutely fascinating conversation with his former professor at the University of Idaho, Dr Nick Gier.
Their relationship goes back to the late 1970s when Dr Gier was a professor of philosophy and Wilson was a young student, keen to evangelize, debate, and spread his version of the Christian faith. Over the decades they've had numerous run-ins, and Dr Gier has written extensively about Wilson and the various scandals and controversies he's been involved in.
The next episode concludes our deep dive into Wilson--stay tuned for the final chapter!
Dr Nick Gier's Website
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In this special bonus episode, returning guest David Johnson and I took another in-depth look at the question we covered in our recent podcast on a so-called "Christian" defense of slavery.
What was meant to be our February MindShift Zoom call turned into a great follow-up conversation on this subject, examining a few questions and comments listeners of the first episode raised after hearing the show.
As a result, David and I were able to go back and do a closer examination of some of the New Testament passages we didn't get a chance to cover in the first one. I hope you enjoy this conversation and learn a lot from it!
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As we're nearing the end of our exhaustive--and potentially exhausting--deep dive into all things Doug Wilson, back in October of 2022 I reached out to former guest David Johnson, host of the Skeptics and Seekers as well as the Red Letters podcasts for some help. This episode has been a long time coming, but it's definitely worth the wait. David and I start with Wilson's book Southern Slavery as it Was and then branch out from there into both historical as well as modern defenses of slavery from a Christian point of view. We'll conclude the episode by taking a long look at some Old Testament passages--do they justify slavery and if so, how might those teachings impact on the modern Christian today in terms of a defense of slavery? Help support the show by becoming a Patreon supporter! Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
We're back for our inaugural episode of 2023, continuing our exploration of all things Doug Wilson, the controversial pastor/cult leader running a sprawling religious empire out of Moscow, ID. In this long-form episode, I'll cover three of Wilson's more controversial---and ultimately toxic--theological distinctives: the "federal vision" theology, general equity theonomy, and finally biblical patriarchy. In each case, not only will I explain the position itself as best I can, I'll also touch base on why exactly they are toxic, damaging to individuals, and lead to things like religious trauma syndrome and other forms of abuse. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
In this third instalment examining the controversial pastor Doug Wilson out of Moscow, ID, we're diving into the decades--yes, decades--of scandals and controversies that have been attached to him and his associated ministries. In our continuing investigation of all things Wilson, this episode demonstrates that not only has Wilson's teachings and leadership style created a culture that is rife for abuses, due to his nepotism, politicking and cronyism, Wilson has so far not only managed to evade all consequences, he's been insulated from any meaningful accountability. Despite all of these scandals, nonetheless Wilson continues to be platformed by leading evangelical leaders. As we saw in the first episode, due to his incredible reach into multiple evangelical homes and churches, his teaching is promoted widely. This episode will shed some light on the real Doug Wilson--buckle up and pour yourself a strong drink, because it's another long one! Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
As I was doing all of my research on controversial pastor Doug Wilson out of Moscow, Idaho, I came across his troublesome teachings on so-called "biblical patriarchy." That also led me to a disturbing movement called the "stay-at-home-daughters" (SAHD)--something which is also within Wilson's orbit.
This week's guest, Cait West, is a survivor of both. She grew up in a Christian homeschooling environment and also was also a part of the SAHD too. Having escaped both, Cait is not only speaking out and writing about her experiences and the trauma she suffered, she is now an advocate for those like herself who experienced forms of religious or other traumas.
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This episode marks the first foray into the sprawling religious empire created by Doug Wilson, pastor of Christ Church in Moscow Idaho. Already on my radar from several years ago when I did an episode with Mark Potok, formerly of the Southern Poverty Law Center, who investigated the controversial pastor back in 2004.
In this 2+ hour episode, we'll uncover Wilson's backstory: where did he come from? How did he become the pastor of Christ Church? How has he gone on to establish a controversial religious empire based out of Moscow? And finally, we want to start looking at the question: is he just a misunderstood pastor, trying his level best to get his version of the Christian gospel out there, or is he on the spectrum of cult leaders?
More content is coming soon--watch this space for more information on Wilson!
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This week's episode features a conversation with Jennifer Cohn, an investigative journalist who primarily writes for the Bucks County Beacon.
Through her work investigating issues such as election integrity in the runup to the 2016 election, Jennifer became aware of the NAR--the New Apostolic Reformation--and the key players who've been pushing Trump's "Big Lie" following the 2020 election.
In their quest to take dominion, these so-called "apostles and prophets" are pushing the Lie--but what's their motivation? Jennifer and I touch on this as well as numerous other related topics, key leaders, and influencers within this movement that is currently threatening American democracy in its aim to achieve dominion.
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Returning guest Dr André Gagné from Concordia University in Montreal, Canada, is an expert on the field of dominion theology, the New Apostolic Reformation, the Christian Right and what's going on in Trump world.
Thus: what better thing to do than to reach out to him after a few years to catch up on what's going on in that universe? The good news is that André's book on the evangelicals behind Trump will be soon translated into English--and I'm sensing another episode coming up!
Will the evangelicals promoting Trump's "Big Lie" go away anytime soon? What's their strategy for taking dominion? Find out the answers to those questions and more in this fascinating, if chilling, conversation.
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Continuing our theme of speaking with ex-pastors, this week's conversation is another good one, featuring my friend Bruce Gerencser. A former Independent Fundamental Baptist preacher of several decades, Bruce has a lifetime's experience unpacking not only the church and the Bible, as an avowed atheist now, he has an incredible story to tell about his journey. In this chat Bruce and I swap stories of life as a pastor, break down the differences between fundamentalism and mainstream evangelicalism, and finally conclude by looking at helpful coping strategies to rebuild your life and reclaim your authentic identity after leaving religion behind. Visit Bruce's Blog here Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Contact Details Follow Bruce on Twitter @brucetheatheist Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
I'm super happy to be reconnecting with my good friend Dave Warnock of "Dying Out Loud"--it's been at least 3+ years since we last talked last, maybe more.
In the meantime, Dave has come out with a brand-new book called Childish Things: A Memoir. I listened to it on Audible, which I'd highly recommend as Dave himself reads the text. This makes his memoirs even more poignant, especially if you grew up in evangelicalism in the 1970s-1990s--the "Jesus Movement" and all that went with it.
Dave and I discuss his time as a Christian, including his stint as a pastor of several churches; how he ended up deconstructing, becoming an atheist, and dealing with a terminal illness. I hope you not only enjoy this conversation, but also get a lot out of it too.
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This week's episode features a fascinating discussion with returning guest, Dr David D'Andre, on the subject of his brand-new book entitled TULIP: The Poisonous Flower of Calvinism.
Why Calvinism, of all the theological systems that are out there? As David makes clear, this theology in particular has a number of problems associated with it, both historically and currently. For many of us who identify as "exvangelical," we came out of churches that preached various aspects of Calvin's theology. Just to name a few: biblical patriarchy, dominion theology, and Christian nationalism.
We will also conclude by discussing how you can recover and rebuild your life, if you've come out of this toxic system.
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This week's guest is Kerry Noble, former member of the Christian militia group The Covenant, Sword & Arm of the Lord (CSA). This group operated out of Arkansas primarily in the 1970s and 80s--and Kerry was one of the major leaders involved in the movement. Built on conspiracy theories, twisted theology, and a dystopian vision of the future, the CSA in many ways was the forerunner to a number of alt-right, white supremacist militia groups we see today. Kerry's story is not only an unbelievable one, it also gives a step-by-step illustration of how a person can be recruited into what essentially became a cult-like movement that planned and nearly executed a number of violent, extremist acts. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Contact Details Follow Kerry's Facebook Page Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This episode features Luna Corbden, whom I met through a mutual friend--Janice Selbie--when we both were presenters at the recent CORT2022, the Conference on Religious Trauma.
Luna grew up as a Mormon, deconstructed their faith, and subsequently left the church--but not without a lot of baggage and religious trauma. Similar to many of us who've left controlling religions, Luna has done a tremendous amount of work unpacking the teachings, figuring out the psychology behind it, and rebuilding their life moving forward.
Whether or not you had any association with Mormonism, but have experience with controlling cults or religions, then you'll no doubt identify with what Luna and I discuss in this episode--and find helpful resources on your journey of reconstructing your authentic self post-religion.
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This special bonus episode is actually Part 2 of a conversation I recently had with Brian and Troy, the co-hosts of the "I Was a Teenage Fundamentalist" podcast out of Melbourne, Australia.
We discuss their backstory coming out of evangelicalism, rebuilding their lives post-religion, and discuss resources for reconstructing your authentic self.
Head over to their platform for Theological Jenga Part 1:
https://pod.link/1558606464/episode/977f7004eeb71b5cd0527f8db0a4b0a2
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This week's episode features returning guest and former host of "The People I Meet" podcast, Dean Krosecz.
Dean walked away from charismatic Christianity years ago, and finally the faith altogether. In the process, in his words, he's become "a strict materialist with doubts"--but what does that mean, and how does it relate to him rebuilding his life post-Christianity?
In the telling of his story, we'll discover that Dean has found peace with himself--writing poetry (which he will share), getting in tune with nature, music and photography. All of these are essential for those of us seeking to recover our authentic self post-religion.
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Thoughts in Winter Dean's poetry available on Amazon
This week's guest is my friend Mike Phillips, currently a therapist in California who does a lot of work in the area of religious trauma syndrome--a subject I am not only very familiar with as a sufferer of RTS myself, but I've devoted a lot of time to it also.
Like me, Mike is an ex-pastor who tells an incredible tale of not only being in church ministry for decades, but also how he transitioned out of both pastoral ministry and Christianity too. In his journey to become a therapist, he developed a speciality of supporting and representing a great number of church abuse victims also.
If you suffer from RTS or know someone who does, then this episode will not only be of great benefit to you, Mike also provides resources and options for its treatment as well.
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This week's episode features a conversation with conspiracy theory expert Mike Rothschild, author of the excellent 2021 book The Storm is Upon Us: How QAnon Became a Movement, a Cult, and a Conspiracy Theory of Everything.
We begin at the beginning: what is the appeal of conspiracy theories in general, and why are so many people attracted to them historically? Conspiracy theories are nothing new, and have been around for as long as humans can remember. QAnon, it turns out, is a rehash of a number of extant and time-tested conspiracy theories, tropes, memes and more.
Has it gone away, now that Trump is no longer president? Why are so many evangelicals still hooked on the movement? And finally, if you have a friend or family member who's been sucked into the Q Universe, can you get them out?
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While most of us may be familiar with the concept of Christian nationalism in the United States among evangelicals, what about the idea of Christian internationalism? That's the topic that this week's guest, Dr Melani McAlister of George Washington University, happens to be an expert on.
We begin by discussing the war in Ukraine and how it shone a spotlight on the widespread American evangelical support for Vladimir Putin--a development that shocked many, given that the Soviet Union was seen by many Christians as the biggest threat to Christianity during the Cold War. What has changed? She maintains it's Christian internationalism.
As she argues in her 2018 book, The Kingdom of God Has no Borders: A Global History of American Evangelicals, one cannot truly understand evangelicalism as a phenomenon unless looked at globally. Far from an American export, evangelicalism is not a monolith and must be examined in terms of its reach and impact nation by nation, people group by people group.
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This week's guest is documentary filmmaker and author, Jen Senko, whose brilliant work The Brainwashing of My Dad tells the story of not just how her father Frank literally became a different person due to the effects of far-right media, it also tells the story of how conservative media became such a powerhouse.
More than likely, you have friends, family, friends or other acquaintances who have been sucked into the cult-like vortex of far-right conservative media, imbibing from a constant drip-tap of propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, outrage politics, and conspiracy theories.
If you despair that they will ever return to their pre-cult like state of normalcy ever again, Jen's work offers up hope that a person who falls down that rabbit hole can actually regain their authentic self once again.
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In light of the recent "leak" of the Supreme Court's apparent ruling to overturn the 1973 Roe v Wade case, I reached out to former guest Peter Montgomery of the Right Wing Watch to bring us up to speed on what's happening.
Aside from the leak itself, which is unprecedented to say the least, the much larger concern of American citizens should be the slow erosion of progressive, democratic rights that have been so hard-won over the last several decades. In addition to that, as we have seen, the dominionist aim of much of the Christian Right doesn't just stop with American politics--they are working hard to infiltrate the corridors of power in many other countries as well, pushing a far-right conservative agenda.
This long-term agenda of the Christian Right, now allied with the Republican Party in so many ways, is not to stop at merely overturning Roe--it's to strip away a variety of rights that most of us simply take for granted.
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This week's episode is one I've wanted to do a long time--it's based on a section of a book I'm working on about Christian Reconstructionism and the roots of dominion theology.
But the recent news about the Supreme Court's "leak" on the upcoming reversal of Roe v Wade got me to thinking that it's time to take a look at historical examples of theocratic kingdoms on earth. Were they more of a utopian existence, or a dystopian nightmare akin to Margaret Atwood's fictional Gilead?
I hope you enjoy this overview of multiple examples of theocracies that have been attempted on earth--and I'll leave it to you decide whether or not you want to live in one.
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This week's guest features a father-and-daughter combination, Stephen Mather and his daughter Celine, who are co-hosts of the "What Should I Think About...?" podcast.
As an ex-JW, Stephen is uniquely qualified to shed light on this cult--and although his daughter Celine was never a part of it, as a non-JW with many family members still involved in the religion, she has a fascinating perspective to offer also.
Enjoy this thought-provoking chat with Stephen and Celine!
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This week's guest is Rachel Hunt, who is an ambassador for the RFR: the Recovering From Religion organization founded by our good friend (and former guest) Dr Darrel Ray.
Not only does Rachel share her own story of escaping from religion, she provides excellent information on what the RFR does, how you can be a part of it, and how you can support this tremendous work that is helping so many people literally worldwide.
Recovering From Religion website
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This week's episode features an alarming conversation with returning guest Katherine Stewart, author of The Power Worshipers and The Good News Club, as well as numerous articles in a variety of online sources.
In this chat, we discussed a January 2022 article Katherine wrote in The New Republic in which she not only identified some of the funding behind several Christian Right organizations in America, but also a more alarming trend: the support for Trump's "Big Lie" by these same outfits.
Not only are they pushing it, they are weaponizing this conspiracy theory to motivate both pastors and evangelicals alike to get out and vote in 2022 and 2024 in an effort to "reclaim America for God"--as in the allegedly Christian nation that America both was, and should be again.
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This week's returning guest is ex-cult member, now sociologist and cult expert--Dr Janja Lalich, co-author along with fellow cult survivor Kala McLaren of the excellent book Escaping Utopia: Growing up in a Cult, Getting Out, and Starting Over.
In this episode, Dr Lalich and I take a deep dive into not just what makes a cult a cult, but more specifically her "bounded choice" model of cults, with its four major components. If you've come out of a cult, fundamentalist religion, or any other sort of high-demand group with undue influence, then you will benefit from this episode!
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We've got the first bonus episode of 2022!
I'm happy to welcome back returning guest, good friend Janice Selbie, to talk about the upcoming CORT2022--the Conference on Religious Trauma. We not only delve into which great presenters she has lined up for this important conference, we discuss the many and varied aspects of religious trauma. What is it, who is affected by it, and what can you do about it if you suffer from it?
Also listen in for an important code that will get you a discount to this event!
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This week's conversation is a fascinating one with American expat Dr David D'Andre, currently residing in Canada but who's lived in such places as Kiev and Brussels. Originally from the United States, David has a fascinating story of deconstruction of his former Christian beliefs from academic, theological and personal points of view combined.
David's story is a fascinating one--and one that you'll hopefully resonate with too. As a thoughtful person who takes an academic approach to the subject, David blends both the theoretical and the practical in his approach to the idea of deconverting from one's former religious belief system.
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This week's episode features returning guest, "Dr Death"--my good friend, Dr Terri Daniel. Terri is hosting a conference coming up in July of this year called "The Conference on Death, Grief and Belief." Not only do we discuss which guests will be at this year's conference--including yours truly--but we delve into its purpose and who should attend it. Beyond that, we have a fascinating chat about toxic theology, death and the so-called "theology of suffering"--which helps to explain why so many people turn to religion to answer many of life's Big Questions. But what happens when the answers aren't satisfactory? Listen in to find out more! The Death, Grief and Belief Conference Website and get an additional $25 off by using the code "MindShift" when you purchase tickets! Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This week's guest is Michael, who self-identifies as a recovering religious addict. But what exactly is "religious addiction," and how would you even know if you are one? Writing on the Religious Addicts Anonymous blog, Michael defines religious addiction as follows: "The religious addict has developed the capability to produce a spiritual high and/or trance-like state, the source of which the addict attributes to a HP [higher power], but in reality the cause is a pathological response in the mind of the addict to heavily ritualised behaviours." If you've left religion, a cult, or a high-control group behind, part of your potential recovery is to educate yourself and to identify the ways in which behaviors and actions from the past have stymied your further growth and development. I believe this episode will help you do exactly that! Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Contact Information Religious Addicts Anonymous blog Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This episode features returning guest, Rebekah Drumsta, author of a brand-new book entitled When Family Hurts: 30 Days to Finding Healing and Clarity.
Have you had to cut off relationships with family or friends because they were simply too toxic, abusive or hurtful? Maybe the "family secrets" came out and left you devastated, or abuses from the past became too painful to bear. Or perhaps cutting off relationships wasn't your choice--it was made for you by someone else who decided to cut you off.
Whatever your situation, the simple fact is: sometimes family hurts us the worst. So what can you do to find healing and clarity? Rebekah's 30-day guide book will help you to walk the path to find wholeness and healing.
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This inaugural episode of 2022 features a fascinating conversation with Australian-born author and investigative journalist, Elle Hardy. She's the author of a brand-new book entitled Beyond Belief: How Global Pentecostalism is Taking Over the World.
In addition to researching the history and the various sociological aspects of global Pentecostalism, Elle was able to conduct amazing field research worldwide, studying the movement in a number of countries. In addition to that, she also delves into the more political aspirations of the movement, tracing the so-called "7 Mountains Mandate" dominion theology particular to more of the charismatic movement.
I think you'll find this episode both challenging as well as potentially alarming, as we uncover the rise of global Pentecostalism.
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This final episode of 2021 features another returning guest and good friend from Canada--David Hayward, "The Naked Pastor."
A former evangelical pastor like me, David and I go way back and share a lot in common since we both left both our ministries and our former faiths behind. I wanted to reconnect with him after we were on a panel last year's CORT 2020 conference on religious trauma.
In addition to some live deconstructing, we get into the subject of David's artwork--the messages and themes that are so prevalent in his work. I think you will find this final episode of the year both insightful and helpful along your journey.
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This week's guest is another returning friend--Dr Josie McSkimming from Sydney, Australia.
I reached out to her recently because I was interested in speaking with her about not only her backstory in Christian fundamentalism, and how she got out of that system, but also about her work as a psychotherapist who specializes in helping clients recover from such afflictions as religious trauma syndrome.
As she views it, our authentic or preferred self is the one we need to recover, rebuild and reconstruct after leaving religion or a cult group behind. How do we do it? Listen in to find out more information and helpful resources.
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This episode is something I've wanted to do for a very long time--a re-release of an old recording I did with my sister Valerie way back in 2017 when she came to visit me in North Wales.
We sat down and shared stories of what it was like to grow up in not just a fundamentalist home, but actually a cult--the Bill Gothard Bible cult. Hearing Valerie's story will move you...perhaps even to tears.
I hope you get a lot out of this re-released episode.
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This week's episode couldn't be more timely--discussing the draconian and hugely controversial Texas abortion law, Senate Bill 8 (SB8).
Now that it is finally being argued at the Supreme Court, we have to ask: will the Christian dominionists who have played the long game in terms of appointing conservative and anti-abortion judges finally succeed in overturning Roe v Wade? This has been their strategy and they have been working at this for literally decades.
That Texas even attempted to pass this law in 2021 is merely testament to not only the 3 conservative judges appointed during the Trump era--with the assistance of the Christian Right--it is a landmark case that is highly unconstitutional and threatens the rights of not just women, but the LGBTQ community also.
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This special bonus episode features a conversation with my very good friend, Religious Recovery Consultant Janice Selbie! Starting the 7th of November, she is running another one of her amazing "Divorcing Religion" workshops. We've talked about this before, but I wanted to touch base with Janice to give her a chance not only to promote the workshop, but to explain why such a thing is so needed for those of us who have left religion or high-control groups behind. In addition to this chat, we also get into CORT 2022--the Conference on Religious Trauma she is putting together for next year. Stay tuned for more information about this excellent conference as well! For more information about the Divorcing Religion, click https://www.divorcing-religion.com/ Follow Janice on Twitter @Wise_Counsellor Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community!
This week's guest is Jonathan Larsen, managing editor over at The Young Turks (TYT) Network.
Ever since he and his colleagues obtained the formerly-secret invitation list to the yearly National Prayer Breakfast that The Family--otherwise known as "The Fellowship Foundation"--wanted desperately to keep a secret, Jonathan has been doing some great investigative reporting on this uber-secretive, dominionist Christian organization.
First reported on by Jeff Sharlet in his book, and later Netflix series "The Family," this clandestine evangelical organization has been actively working the corridors of power worldwide for decades, building relationships and seeking out "key men" to win to Christ--in the hopes that they will influence their nations and spheres of influence for the Kingdom of God.
Find out more by listening in!
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In this special bonus episode, which I've long been promising is indeed coming, I was able to interview therapist Rachel Bernstein of the IndoctriNation Podcast.
This is actually Part 2 of two episodes we did--for the first half of the chat, you'll have to head over to the IndoctriNation podcast to catch Part 1. There, we discussed my backstory in evangelicalism, my deconstruction, and the journey to rebuild since leaving Christianity behind.
In this episode, we focus specifically on the important question: how does religion affect people's mental health? What resources are available for those of us who have left it behind, and now need to reconstruct our lives from the ground up?
I hope you will find this conversation with Rachel both enlightening and educational.
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Kurt Andersen is a returning guest, this time to talk about his sequel to Fantasyland, which is his excellent and thought-provoking work, Evil Geniuses: The Unmaking of America--A Recent History.
How exactly does it function as a sequel to Fantasyland? In this followup book, Kurt reveals that the vast wealth and income inequality in America was not by accident, but by design--the work of the "evil geniuses" he identifies in the book. And not only did the evil geniuses succeed, the "fantasy-industrial complex" he identified in Fantasyland is hard at work, providing a distraction for all the poor workers who have been screwed out of what should have been rightfully theirs.
For more information on Kurt, his writings and podcasts, check out his website.
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For those two or three people who are unaware of who Seth Andrews is, all we have to say is "The Thinking Atheist" and you'll understand everything.
Seth and I had a fantastic conversation recently in which we discussed his backstory, his views on being a former "Fox News Christian," dominion theology and the recent Texas abortion law, and more. In this wide-ranging conversation, we covered a lot of ground and had an amazing time doing so. I am certain you'll enjoy spending an hour or so with Seth, the host of The Thinking Atheist.
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In this special bonus episode, I'm welcoming back returning guest Dr David Madison, who was on the podcast several years ago.
Our mutual friend Tim Sledge suggested I interview him about his new book, Ten Things Christians Wish Jesus Hadn't Taught. This very readable book–designed to be read through easily in one sitting–is aimed primarily at Christians who are open to questioning their faith, and potentially dialoguing with others about some of the questions, doubts, and cognitive dissonance they may have been harboring, but were afraid to admit.
Available now on Amazon–click the link here to purchase this excellent resource!
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This episode features author and activist Ryan Stollar, who grew up in the Christian homeschooling bubble, but has since become a staunch advocate for those who unfortunately suffered a great many abuses within that system.
A former editor and author at the now-archived Homeschoolers Anonymous blog for several years, Ryan has since branched out and is currently doing a lot of writing–including working on two books at the moment. He is still very active within the former homeschooling community, and is very active on social media with support groups for survivors.
This episode reveals much about the backstory of how Christian homeschooling not only started, but what some of the major leaders within the movement are up to currently–including expanding their vision worldwide.
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This special bonus episode features returning guest, Dr Warren Throckmorton. Though he identifies as a Christian himself, Dr Throckmorton has long been an outspoken activist and blogger for what he clearly sees as abuses within evangelicalism.
In the current Christianity Today podcast series on the collapse of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, and Mark Driscoll's role in it, his name comes up–as he was one of the early voices to speak out against the problems inherent within Mars Hill.
Not only do we discuss the Mars Hill saga, and its ultimate implosion, we also delve into the concept that Driscoll, in many ways, fits a classic ego-driven cult leader–and his current church in Scottsdale, AZ, features even more disturbing elements of cult psychology and high-control groups.
For more information you can visit Warren's blog at this link.
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This week's guest is Daniel Phelps, who grew up in the World Revival Church, now located in Kansas City, MO.
A recent investigation by Fox News has shone some light on this church's disturbing cult-like practices and tactics. Off the back of that, Daniel shares his story of how he not only grew up in the church--which he now describes as a cult--and how he finally got out.
Can a church become a cult? Listen in to find out how this one did!
Click here to read the Fox News investigative report on the multiple abuses by WRC.
Visit the KC Cult Survivor Facebook Page.
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In this special bonus episode, I recently caught up with Kurt Andersen, author of the 2017 book Fantasyland: How America Went Haywire--A 500-Year History. Kurt's book explains so much about the current state of America today by looking at its history through the lens of "fantasyland"--basically, what happens when people begin to blur, or commingle, fantasy and reality. It's not that other nations don't do this, but it's more than what makes America so exceptional is that we seem to have a corner on doing it the best. Join the MindShift Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
It's finally out!
This is an absolutely incredible, informative and educational conversation I had a while back with David Johnson, host of the Skeptics and Seekers podcast.
I met David when we were guests on the Still Unbelievable podcast, and he shared about a time when he'd been a guest on an atheist podcast and talked a lot about the church and racism--only to discover that when the episode finally aired, the host of that show had edited out that entire section. So right then I knew...we had to have that conversation.
I hope you not only enjoy this conversation, but that you learn a lot also from this chat as well.
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This week's episode features another super informative--and potentially disturbing--conversation with returning guest, Fred Clarkson of the Political Research Associates.
Matt Shea is a former Republican state legislator from my home state of Washington, up in the Pacific Northwest. He's long been a lightning rod for controversy in his own right, and a few years ago drew nationwide attention for his connection to some very far-right causes.
But now, Fred has uncovered a new and potentially more disturbing connection in the person of Timothy Taylor, a New Apostolic Reformation "apostle" who is also a major proponent of the 7 mountains dominion mandate theology.
That the two men are now apparently working together for some agenda is an area of major concern, and something to keep a close eye on moving forward. You'll learn more about both men, and what they're working on, in this very educational episode.
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Article by Frederick Clarkson on Matt Shea & Tim Taylor
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In this special bonus episode, I spoke recently with Dr Audrey Clare Farley, who wrote a fascinating (and quite disturbing) article not long ago exploring the connections between Dr James Dobson of Focus on the Family and...eugenics.
Sounds crazy, right? No, there is definitely a connection--not just between Dobson and eugenics, but his entire "family values" empire. There's a dark underbelly to the whole thing, and in this episode, we lay it all out.
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Read Audrey's Article on Religion Dispatches
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After last week's conversation with Jared Yates Sexton, that spurred me to do some more investigation into this issue of the "noble lie"--what is it, and how exactly does it relate to the official American narrative of its history?
Once we understand that critical concept--that goes all the way back to the ancient Greek philosopher Plato in the 3rd century BCE--it becomes a helpful paradigm or model through which to interpret not just American history, but many other nations also.
Join me on this journey of discovery and please, let me know your thoughts!
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Jared Yates Sexton, the co-host of the Muckrake Podcast, is back! This time we are taking a super deep dive into his excellent and thought-provoking book American Rule: How a Nation Conquered the World but Failed its People.
As always, Jared is a profoundly deep thinker and communicator--and in this case, we will look at some of the defining myths and "noble lies" that have sustained a particular version of American history from even before its founding as a nation.
Understanding this paradigm will, I believe, help you to make sense of not just current events, but also American history also.
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This week's episode features an amazing survivor--Maya Ram. She not only survived a traumatic relationship with the Seventh Day Adventist cult, she also had to deal with a controlling, abusive mother too--who also used religion as a means of coercion.
Today, Maya is rebuilding her life, and is involved in activism warning the world about the dangers of Christian mission work--not just in her home country of India, but around the world too.
Find out more about Maya's work at the Mission Kaali website.
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This bonus episode features a super-informative discussion with Emily Elizabeth Anderson, who herself is a survivor of not only the Bill Gothard/ATI homeschooling cult, she also experienced grooming and abuses by Gothard personally.
Emily is now on the journey of helping others deal with church abuse and other forms of traumas they may have suffered. She has become an activist speaking out against the toxicity of Gothard's cult and was actually part of the massive lawsuit against Gothard himself, launched by multiple women who were sexually harassed and assaulted by him.
We not only discuss the recent Josh Duggar arrest situation, we conclude the conversation by evaluating the IBLP as a cult also.
Find out more about Emily's work at her blog, Thriving Forward.
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In this week's episode, I finally had a chance to edit this show and get it out there--apologies to Andrew for taking so long!
Andrew is on the vanguard of an exciting new field of research and experimentation: using psychedelics to treat such issues as PTSD, Religious Trauma Syndrome, and many more. Listen in as Andrew expands our consciousness as to the incredible possibilities that this fascinating work represents.
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Andrew's Site Life After Dogma
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I'm super excited to be promoting this incredible conference, which begins very soon--May 11th through the 16th, 2021.
My good friend Janice Selbie is putting it on, and the conference features an unbelievable line-up of guest speakers and presenters, such as Dr Marlene Winell, who literally "wrote the book" on religious trauma syndrome. She, along with many others--including me on a panel with David Hayward and Tim Sledge--will be a part of this amazing conference.
For more information on how to get tickets, go to the CORT2021 website.
Divorcing Religion website
Use the code POD15 to get a discount too!
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Follow Janice on Twitter @divorce religion or @wise_counsellor
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In this special bonus episode, I caught up recently with Mikey Weinstein, founder and leader of the MRFF--the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.
This incredible civil rights advocacy organization is dedicated to one thing: preserving the religious freedoms of active duty, cadets, reservists and veteran service members of the US Armed Forces.
According to their site: "MRFF clients have faced unconstitutional religious church/state violations and noxious abuse from their military superiors who almost exclusively brandish one particular version of Christianity, fundamentalist Christianity, as a weapon to intimidate, menace, harass, subdue, and terrify their otherwise helpless armed forces subordinates."
This is what the MRFF is all about--fighting against weaponized Christianity in the US military.
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This week's special bonus episode features an excellent conversation with Lisa and Gerette, two amazing women who started the igotout.org website.
Both cult survivors in their own right, each not only tell their stories of their time in their cults and also what led them to get out finally after spending years in the group. Following this decision, both women have dedicated themselves to activism and helping people to have a platform where they can share their stories of cults, religious groups, and other high-control groups they left behind.
Check out their website and tell your story!
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In this conversation with returning guest Dr Terri Daniel, co-host of the "Ask Dr Death" podcast, we get into the subjects of not only the psychology of religion in general, but we also discuss how religion can affect people's mental health.
This is a subject I've long been fascinated by, as a cult survivor as well as an ex-evangelical. How much did your religious background affect you, both in the past and perhaps even currently? Dr Terri and I discuss this, and give real-world examples of how it might affect people in terms of their mental health, relationships, and more.
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This bonus episode features a discussion with Fred Clarkson: journalist, publisher and author and most importantly for our purposes, Senior Research Analyst at Political Research Associates.
In addition to breaking the story about Project Blitz a few years ago, Fred has been researching and writing about the Christian Right and dominion theology for literally decades now. As such, he is one of the leading experts in this field, and in this episode we draw on all of Fred's knowledge to help unpack not only the historic foundations of the Christian Right, we take a look at what some of their current projects are now, moving forward in the post-Trump era.
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In this fantastic bonus episode, returning guests Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman--authors of the classics Snapping and Holy Terror--take us on a trip back in time...to the origins of the Christian Right, with a close assessment of the various strategies that were used to sway and influence millions of impressionable evangelicals to get involved in politics.
What's perhaps not so surprising? The playbook that many of the architects of the Christian Right constructed decades ago is still in operation. The current evangelical Trump base, for example, is an extension of the work that these key players installed decades ago.
We also look at the impact these strategies had on the individual evangelical. We'll explore the story of Diane, "the first ex-evangelical," that Flo and Jim encountered in their travels across America researching this movement.
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Contact Jim and Flo at http://stillpointpress.net/
Ex-Evangelical Experience Survey 2021 Link
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In this episode, we round out our examination of the Falwell family legacy by speaking with Calum Best, who is himself an alumni of the Christian University founded by Jerry Falwell Sr., which was then taken over by his son after his death. Beyond objecting to Jerry Falwell Jr's leadership style and negative example he set, we also discuss Charlie Kirk and the Falkirk Center, which until recently was headquartered at Liberty. Although he still identifies as an evangelical, Calum is definitely critical of many aspects of the movement...I hope you find this conversation intriguing and informative! Help Support the work of MindShift Podcast on Patreon Contact Information Save 71 Website Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Subscribe to the MindShift Podcast YouTube Channel
In this special bonus episode, I finally was able to get together with Hemant Mehta, "The Friendly Atheist," for a fascinating discussion about his journey.
Hemant became an atheist out of the religion of Jainism, which is fascinating in and of itself–his story is quite different than the sort of "typical" atheist one might encounter who rejects the Christian version of God.
As a result of that journey of exploration, Hemant went on to develop the "Friendly Atheist" platform–blogging and podcasting–in an attempt to engage people from all walks of faith, belief systems and life in a respectful and mutually expanding dialogue: common ground, despite massive differences.
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The Friendly Atheist Blog on Patheos
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In this second episode in my new 2021 series "Profiles of the Christian Right," I'm following up on last week's chat with Frank Schaeffer and doing a very deep dive into the legacy of Jerry Falwell Sr and his Moral Majority organization, which ran from 1979-1989.
Not only do I do a thorough investigation into Falwell himself, I'll conclude by analyzing the many and varied through-lines from what he and other far-right evangelical political activists were up to decades ago, and how that laid the groundwork for the overwhelmingly white, evangelical Trump base.
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In this very informative and educational episode, returning guest Frank Schaeffer and I break down not only some of the early movers and shakers of the Christian Right--like Falwell Sr., Pat Robertson and others--we move on to discuss the legacy of what that movement has led us to today.
Frank and his famous dad, Francis Schaeffer, were there when so much of this was all happening--and of course, we know that the Schaeffers helped promote the anti-abortion issue to the front and center of both Christian identity politics, as well as the Republican Party.
What is the legacy that we see all around us today from the Christian Right? An industry of hate that can do nothing less than to try and dress up its core message in an effort to salvage itself.
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This week's guest features Thomas Hanna, who's had a very interesting path indeed–he's gone from being a pastor to embarking on a journey of discovery that led him to becoming an atheist. He is now a therapist who specializes in helping clients deal with religious trauma syndrome and other issues from their time in religion.
Thomas and I reminisce about our time as pastors, why that career so often leads to burnout and other issues, and also examine religious trauma and belief systems that cause many problems within evangelicalism.
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Find Thomas at the Tempest Counseling site
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This special bonus episode features returning guest, sociologist and cult expert, Dr Janja Lalich.
I reached out to her once again to talk about the NXIVM cult and how specifically it worked from a cult psychology point of view. As someone who not only has been in a cult herself, but has also researched and written a tremendous amount of material about cults, Dr Lalich is an invaluable resource. In addition, she was also heavily involved in the trial and has been filmed for at least 2 documentaries about NXIVM.
I think that not only will you find this episode fascinating about Raniere and NXIVM itself, as we describe cult psychology in general it will prove to be a helpful resource in terms of your own reconstruction--if you come out of controlling religions or groups with undue influence.
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This week's incredible conversation features Janeen Puckett, host of the Deconstruction Stories website--a place where you can share your journeys deconstructing out of religion, anonymously and safely.
Janeen herself has an absolutely incredible story of deconstruction too--she comes out of a prophetic, charismatic version of Christianity that had an unbelievably damaging effect on not just her life, but that of her family too. I'll let her share this amazing story--and please, let us know your thoughts, comments and questions!
And if you want to post your story--here's the link to her site!
Deconstruction Stories site link
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I finally got a chance to edit and release my first episode of my new series for 2021, "Profiles of the Christian Right." For this inaugural episode, I reached out to Mark Potok, who worked at the Southern Poverty Law Center for 20 years and is an expert on the radical Right and the Christian Right.
Mark wrote an article for the SPLC in 2004 exposing, perhaps for the first time publicly, Pastor Doug Wilson and his growing cult-like empire located in Moscow, Idaho. In this chat, we not only break down aspects of Wilson's theology and influence of Christian Reconstructionism on his worldview, we look at the expanding influence Wilson has currently even in mainstream evangelical and Christian homeschooling households.
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In this special bonus episode, given the events of the recent Capitol Riots and the prominence of QAnon-branded diehard Trump loyalists who took part in the insurrection, I figured it was time to take a deep dive into the cult psychology behind this rapidly-spreading online conspiracy theory.
Is it merely a harmless belief system that rational folks can dismiss? I think we all know now that this is no longer an option...we've seen that beliefs in conspiracy theories can drive people to acts of violence, destruction of property, sedition, and even murder.
QAnon played a major role. What is it exactly, and how can we understand it better? Find out more in this bonus episode!
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This week's episode features Paul James Caiden, host of the Mind's Eye Podcast. I was a recent guest on his show and now I'm returning the favor and having him on the show--from Mind's Eye to MindShift!
In this chat we cover not only Paul's story of his faith deconstruction, we focus on the issues surrounding the various traumas that accompany the decision to walk away from one's former faith. In addition, we finish the chat by discussing the dark side of dominion theology, Trumpism and look ahead in terms of what's in store for the American evangelical movement today.
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In this inaugural episode of 2020, I figured something needed to be said about the recent, highly disturbing events in the US Capitol building. An angry mob of Trumpists laid waste to the building, resulting in 5 deaths and the widespread destruction of property. But beyond the headlines, I wanted to explore two additional aspects of the story: one, the draw of conspiracy theories, and two, the Christian nationalist piece to the whole story. Let's take a deep dive into this topic and see what we can uncover! Help Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon in 2021! Contact Information Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Subscribe to the MIndShift Podcast YouTube Channel
This final episode of 2020 features an eye-opening and informative interview with Seven, a rapper and former megachurch pastoral staff member from Jacksonville, Florida.
Seven and his wife experienced not just church hurt during their time as part of the congregation, the situation became much worse as he transitioned into a position on the church staff. Turns out that the only reason the church wanted him on staff was for him to be the "face of diversity" at what was actually an organization with deep and systemic racism at its core. How can this all be reconciled with both a supposedly loving God, and a loving church?
As a result of his experiences, Seven walked away from it all...and is now speaking out.
Support Seven! Order "Sunday Mourning" at WinLoseorMaybe
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Follow Seven on Twitter @SevenJ_SJM
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In this special bonus episode, I'm bringing back recent guest Frank Schaeffer, son of the hugely famous and influential Francis and Edith Schaeffer. As we discussed in our last episode, we'd return to talk about two of his books: Crazy for God and Why I'm an Atheist who Believes in God. I read them both (highly recommended, by the way), and that gave me ample content to fire questions at Frank. As always, Frank is knowledgeable, informed, up-to-date and above all, passionate about this subject. Enjoy this special episode as an early Christmas present! Help Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Follow Frank on Twitter @Frank_Schaeffer Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page Subscribe on YouTube
This episode will be of great value to anyone who grew up in a fundamentalist or evangelical Bible cult background, like this week's guest--life coach Rebekah Drumsta.
Beyond talking about her incredible life's journey out of fundamentalism, and then rebuilding, we get into Rebekah's amazing work as a life coach, helping people recover from the oftentimes harmful, traumatic and toxic effects of fundamentalist or high-control religious groups.
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Thanks to the wonderful Karen & Bonnie from the Deconversion Therapy Podcast, we are happy to bring the full episode of our conversation from the other day.
We had a great chat, talking about our own backstories growing up in evangelicalism, Trump politics and the Christian Right, and which evangelical leaders we'd like to punch in the throat right now.
Enjoy!
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In this special bonus episode, I'm chatting with Jared Yates Sexton, who is the co-host of the Muckrake Podcast along with Nick Hauselman.
An associate professor at Georgia Southern University, Jared is also the author of the 2020 book American Rule: How a Nation Conquered the World but Failed Its People.
As both an author and political analyst, Jared is perfectly positioned to comment on the developments within Trumpism currently, but also to discuss the historic elements that have led us to where we're at today...with a strongman president, Christian nationalism, American exceptionalism, and the cult of Trumpism that is based on conspiracy theories.
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In this fourth bonus episode, I'm taking a slightly different direction away from the charismatic "apostles and prophets" who failed in their predictions of a Trump landslide.
This time, I'm looking at the issue of why voices on the Christian Right--who might possibly disavow their more charismatic brothers and sisters--are amplifying and promoting the same conspiracy theories Trump is touting?
Let's take a deep dive into this and look at what some are saying, and why it's a vert important subject to break down right now.
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This week's episode features a conversation with ex-charismatic Christian and host of "The People I Meet" podcast: Dean Krosecz.
Dean and I discuss not only a bit of his backstory, we also delve into the charismatic version of dominion theology--the so-called "7 mountains mandate." Dean helpfully breaks it down, explains how he got into it, and we also unpack just what in the world Paula White-Cain was babbling on about in her bizarre declarations shortly after the US presidential election.
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There's just so much information out there that I am having a hard time keeping up with all of it!
As I struggle to keep up, here's my third bonus episode on this topic, as we continue to watch the so-called "prophets" who confidently predicted a Trump victory--and who are now proven to be false prophets.
What other options are left open to them?
Now it's becoming clear that in addition to embracing increasingly bizarre conspiracy theories, their rhetoric has take a dark, irresponsible and frankly dangerous turn. Vowing not to accept the results of the election, many are whipping up the outrage of their base and calling for, in some cases, civil disobedience.
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This week's episode features a fascinating conversation with Dara Molloy, former Catholic priest from Dublin, Ireland.
Now situated on the Aran Islands off the west Coast of Ireland, Dara ended up walking away from the institutionalized Roman Catholic Church and embarking on a journey to discover--or perhaps rediscover--Celtic spirituality millennia before it was overshadowed by the Catholic Church.
Now identifying as a druid, Celtic priest and monk, Dara wants to discover: is there still a sense of mystery and spirituality to be recovered out on the remote Aran Islands? His journey is a fascinating one--and I'm sure you'll agree that his experiences are certainly unique!
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Although it's only been a week since my last bonus episode on this topic of the failed Trump prophecies, much has happened since then--so I felt that it needed to be revisited!
In this episode, I'll take a look at what some of these so-called "prophets and apostles" have been saying since the election. With just one or two notable exceptions, virtually to a person they are doing what is expected, unfortunately--doubling down and seeking to explain away, or justify, what seems to be a clearly false prophecy.
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In this special bonus episode, I take a look at the phenomenon of cognitive dissonance as it relates to the wide variety of failed so-called "prophecies" laid out by a great number of charismatic and 7 mountains mandate dominion theology "apostles and prophets."
Turns out: to a person, they were all clearly wrong. So: was God incorrect in giving this "prophetic word" to his prophets? Or were they all making it up, projecting their desires on the election, and thus proven to be...false prophets?
I'll not only take a look at what was said by these "prophets," I'll use as a base line the excellent 1956 book on the subject of cognitive dissonance as a comparison model: Leon Festinger's When Prophecy Fails.
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This extremely helpful episode features a conversation with returning guest Andrew Jasko, a Princeton-seminary trained former minister who walked away from the faith years ago and now as a therapist, is devoting his life to helping people heal from religious trauma syndrome (RTS).
Andrew's blog is helpfully titled "Life After Dogma," and that is exactly what we focus on in this episode--what is trauma, generally speaking? And then, what exactly is religious trauma, and how can you begin to cope with it? How does religious dogma affect us in terms of trauma, and is there life after we leave it behind?
One aspect of healing is to discover spirituality--which is something that doesn't necessarily appeal to all people who come out of cults or fundamentalist religions. But in this episode, regardless of your beliefs about it, you'll find help and resources in dealing with your own RTS.
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This special bonus episode is a chat with Dr John Fea, professor of American history at Messiah College in Pennsylvania--and although he's an evangelical, he is a prominent voice who has been speaking out for years about what he terms the "court evangelicals" surrounding Donald Trump.
Dr Fea is also the author of multiple books and articles, but I wanted to focus on two works: first, his 2011 book Was America Founded as a Christian Nation: A Historical Perspective, and his more recent work, Believe Me: The Evangelical Road to Donald Trump (2018).
Dr Fea and I dissect not only the myths of Christian nationalism, but discuss the role that dominion theology and power politics have shaped the Christian Right and evangelical support for Donald Trump.
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The Way of Improvement Leads Home Blog
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This week's episode features Heath Brown, associate professor at CUNY and author of the upcoming book Homeschooling the Right: How Conservative Education Activism Erodes the State, which is expected to drop in early 2021.
Heath has done a tremendous amount of research into not just homeschooling, but specifically the world of Christian homeschooling. What he has uncovered in the ultra-secretive world is that while they don't want to be studied or monitored by state or government controls, at the same time they are having an increasingly outsized political influence in terms of legislation.
Moreover, conservative homeschooling groups are increasingly making use of homeschooled children and young people both to influence, and work as free labor for, conservative political campaigns.
Learn more about these trends in this fascinating discussion with Heath Brown!
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This special bonus episode features author, filmmaker, artist and activist Frank Schaeffer, son of Francis Schaeffer--the hugely influential intellectual evangelical and anti-abortion activist.
Frank, along with his famous father, helped to launch the evangelical anti-abortion movement back in the 1970s and 80s with their film series "Whatever Happened to the Human Race?"
As we discuss the backstory of how abortion came to be the biggest single-issue topic for Republican and evangelical voters of today, Frank fills us in on the details--and helps explain why the confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett to the US Supreme Court poses such a threat to all Americans.
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"Let Me Be Frank" film about Frank Schaeffer on Vimeo
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Is it possible to have a respectful dialogue between an atheist and an evangelical Christian? Matthew Taylor, this week's guest and co-host of the Still Unbelievable podcast, thinks that it is possible--provided, of course, that you separate the beliefs from the believer. In addition to exploring that concept, Matthew and I trade backstories in our old evangelical days, comparing notes and dissecting Christianity as objectively as we can. We also talk about the importance of community after leaving religion behind. Help Support the Ongoing Work of MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Details Follow Matthew on Twitter @vteclimey Reason Press Website Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
In this special bonus episode, I have a conversation with Peter Montgomery, Senior Fellow at Right Wing Watch. Peter has diligently been researching and writing on the Christian Right, dominion theology, evangelical politics, and more for the last 2 decades. As such, he is the perfect person to speak with now, just weeks before the election. We are seeing more than ever the levels of rabid support for Donald Trump among evangelicals--and as Peter states, on the hyper-charismatic side of the equation, "it's on steroids now." They've gone into overdrive, and are making some absolutely unbelievable claims about what they believe God will do--both with Trump and the unprecedented appointment of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court. Help Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Details Follow Peter on Twitter @petemont Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
This special bonus edition features sociologist Andrew Whitehead, co-author along with Sam Perry of the informative book Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States. As you'll recall, Sam was my guest a few months ago as we discussed the findings of their research of Americans as it relates to Christian nationalism in their book. I reached out to Andrew to have a discussion about not just the upcoming election and the chaos surrounding it, but also the recent news of the possibility of Trump installing an unprecedented third Supreme Court justice before the election. To what extent is Christian nationalism informing both the folks who intend not only to vote for Trump in November (possibly for the second time), but also their support of Amy Coney Barrett and their hopes for overturning Roe v Wade? Turns out...it's a huge driver. Listen in for more information! Help Support the Show on Patreon! Contact Information Follow Andrew on Twitter @ndrewwhitehead Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
In this episode with Steven Tiger, author of Doctrine Impossible, I'm hearkening back to my old days as an evangelical pastor and Bible college teacher and revisiting the subject of Christian theology.
Today, however, neither of us are seeking to defend what in many cases is quite a monstrous set of beliefs--and view of God that is revealed in the pages of the Bible. What are the implications of so much of classic Christian doctrine?
Tune in to our chat to find out!
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Steven's Website https://www.rationality-and-faith.com/
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This week's guest features Paul Kivel, author of Living in the Shadow of the Cross: Understanding and Resisting the Power and Privilege of Christian Hegemony.
Since the fateful decision by Emperor Constantine in the 4th Century CE to make Christianity the official state religion of Rome, Christianity has enjoyed unprecedented power, cultural and religious dominance--the very definition of "hegemony."
And this is true not just in the West, where it's been most powerful, but indeed worldwide, as Christianity provided the ideology and force to go along with much of the efforts to colonize the world in the 18th-19th centuries. It's still seen today worldwide--politically, socially, culturally, religiously, and in many other ways.
Paul and I will give you the tools not only to understand what Christian hegemony is, and the dangers it poses--we'll also discuss how you and I can successfully resist it.
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Paul Kivel's Challenging Christian Hegemony Website
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In this bonus episode, ex-Scientologist and host of the Sensibly Speaking Podcast--Chris Shelton--drops in for a deep dive into the cult psychology of QAnon. What is QAnon, and who exactly is "Q," its enigmatic leader? Chris and I not only answer those questions, but further, we unpack the appeal of this growing internet cult movement from a cult psychology point of view. If you have friends, family members, or coworkers who are into QAnon--then this episode will help you not only make sense of the movement, but it will give you the critical tools by which to engage this dangerous cult. Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Information Follow Chris on Twitter @sheltondesigner Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Link to The MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
Due to the rapidly-unfolding series of scandals surrounding Jerry Falwell Jr--and his wife Becki--I turned to one of the most qualified people out there who could knowledgeably discuss this story: Kristin Kobes Du Mez, recent guest and author of the recent book Jesus and John Wayne. Kristin and I try to make sense of the narratives swirling around the many scandals that have not only dogged Falwell Jr for years now, we want to know: why has it take this long for him to be removed as the president of Liberty University? And how does it fit into the larger picture of evangelical toxic masculinity and biblical patriarchy, of which Falwell Jr may have indeed served as a poster boy for years now. Help Support Independent Media Like MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Information Follow Kristin on Twitter @kkdumez Follow me @MindShift2018
This week's episode features a conversation with Dr Michael McVicar, assistant professor of religion at Florida State University and author of the 2015 book, Christian Reconstruction: RJ Rushdoony and American Religious Conservatism.
Dr McVicar's book is incredibly helpful in developing the historical and cultural context that both explains who Rushdoony was, but also why his legacy is so significant in so many ways.
Not only was he "the father of Christian Reconstructionism," Rushdoony also had a massive impact on Christian education and homeschooling, the early formation of the Christian Right and evangelical involvement in politics, and also on some of the more far-right, fringe Christian political movements today.
Understanding Rushdoony and his life's work is key to being able to grasp what is going on in the intersection of evangelicalism and politics today.
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My study and research of Christian nationalism has led me both to David Barton, who runs the organization WallBuilders out of Aledo, Texas, and to another figure--Dr Warren Throckmorton of Grove College, a professor of psychology.
What do these two people have in common?
Barton is a revisionist "historian" who has made a career out of promoting the myth that America not only was founded as a Christian nation, it should return to that status today. Dr Throckmorton has spent many years researching and writing on Barton's often spurious historical claims and dubious historical methods. He co-wrote a book together with Michael Coulter called Getting Jefferson Right that took Barton to task for the many glaring mistakes and fraudulent claims in his book The Jefferson Lies.
Find out more in this episode!
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This special bonus episode features journalist Sarah Posner, as we discuss her latest book Unholy: Why White Evangelicals Worship at the Altar of Donald Trump.
So why exactly do they worship at the Trump altar? Turns out that the answer to that question is more complex than it may seem...because as Sarah lays out in the book, it's not just white evangelicals--it's also the alt-right that forms Trump's loyal base.
Join us for this discussion of Unholy as we unpack the layers!
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In this special bonus episode, returning guest David Hayward ("The Naked Pastor") drops back in for a discussion of his new book Til Doubt Do Us Part: When Changing Beliefs Changes Your Marriage. We discuss what happens when married couples experience the reality of one person who is deconstructing his or her religious beliefs. What happens when the other person isn't on the same page? What about if they have children who still want to go to church? Or, what about atheist couples? One person may start to embrace spirituality, whereas their partner isn't. All these scenarios and more are covered by David in his excellent book, which serves as a resource for those in relationships who are attempting to work their way through this very difficult issue. Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Information Follow David on Twitter @nakedpastor Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This week's show features returning guest: journalist and author Katherine Stewart, who wrote the recent book The Power Worshippers.
In this episode, we'll be talking about Katherine's 2012 book, The Good News Club: The Christian Right's Stealth Assault on America's Children. She uncovers not only the agenda behind the sectarian, fundamentalist organization known as "The Good News Club"--which targets kids with their gospel message as young as 4 years old and uses public schools to do it--she also demonstrates how a crucial 2001 Supreme Court ruling has literally kicked the doors open for a whole host of other "missional" ministries to make use of public school buildings.
Ultimately, not only is the Christian Right targeting vulnerable schoolchildren in the "4-14 window," they are essentially declaring war on public schools, viewing them as "mission fields" filled with students to be proselytized.
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This week's guest is Julie Anne Smith, known primarily for her blogging and activism through the Spiritual Sounding Board blog.
Julie Anne not only works hard to expose church abuses of all kinds--sexual as well as spiritual--she is herself a survivor, having come through the ranks as a former Christian homeschooling mom. She subsequently began to deconstruct and question a lot of the indoctrination she received through Christian homeschooling curriculum and conferences.
In this wide-ranging and informative chat, we cover everything from Bill Gothard, RJ Rushdoony, Michael Farris of the HSLDA, and how the whole movement somehow...is all linked together under the concept of "Christian dominionism."
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This special bonus episode features a conversation with journalist and author Angela Denker, whose recent book Red State Christians: Understanding the Voters who Elected Donald Trump takes a much more personal look at Trump Christian voters in America.
Beyond being a journalist and author, Angela is also a Lutheran pastor--and after seeing the disruptive effect of the Trump vote in 2016 on her own church members, and watching it nationwide for the last 3+ years, she's concerned for the future of Christianity in light of the widespread evangelical Trump support.
Thus her book seeks to understand what motivated many Trump-supporting Christians in America who often don't receive a lot of media coverage. While you may not entirely share her concern, perhaps her book will open up dialogue between Trump-supporting Christians and those who don't--which can only be a good thing, given the incredibly polarized state of America today.
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This week's guest is Rob Boston, senior editor of Church and State and long-time prolific writer for the organization Americans United for the Separation of Church & State.
Rob has been with AU for more than 30 years, and in that time he's written extensively on not only church and state, but on exposing--and debunking, in some cases--many of the key leaders of the Christian Right and Christian nationalist movements.
In this episode, Rob and I cover a wide range of topics related to the importance of maintaining the separation of church and state, which a great number of Christian nationalists have been working to batter down for decades now.
Why should you be concerned, or for that matter, care about this topic? I think you will after listening in!
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Find his articles on the AU Website
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In this special bonus episode, I'm happy to share my interview of Kristin Kobes Du Mez, author of an outstanding book released on Tuesday, the 23rd of June 2020, and timed to coincide with its release.
Titled Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation, the book explores the legacy of "evangelical masculinity"--and chronicles how, in the last century or so, white evangelicals have been on a quest to "reclaim their lost manhood."
We'll cover not only how this movement came about and how it developed most clearly over the last 40 years, but also discuss the legacy of this movement--biblical patriarchy, along with its numerous abuses and scandals. This is also the legacy that led to that infamous 81% of white evangelicals voting for Trump in 2016.
Find out more about the book on Amazon
Follow Kristin on Twitter @kkdumez
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This week's episode features an information-packed chat with Dr Milton Gaither, widely considered one of America's foremost leading experts on the subject of Christian homeschooling.
Dr Gaither wrote the book on the subject--literally. His 2008 book Homeschool: An American History (revised in 2017) contains a wealth of information not just on the development of homeschooling in general, but specifically Christian homeschooling. This is the subject we spend the most time unpacking and exploring.
Why does this topic matter? Generally speaking, much of the Christian homeschool movement today has been influenced by the work of RJ Rushdoony, "the father of Christian Reconstructionism." Why does that matter? Listen in to find out why!
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Dr Gaither's Homeschooling Research Notes site
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This week we are taking another break from talking about dominion theology and Christian nationalism to focus on a topic I've dealt with a lot in the past--how to reconstruct your life, and rebuild, after leaving one's faith or religious beliefs behind. My guest this week is David, host of "The Graceful Atheist" podcast. We have a fantastic discussion comparing notes both as ex-pastors who walked away from our former Christian beliefs, but are still doing a lot of "pastoral" work--helping others who have deconstructed, or are thinking about starting the process. You'll find this a helpful and informative episode that covers a lot of ground! Help Support the Show on Patreon Contact Details Follow David on Twitter @GracefulAtheist Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page
In this special episode, I'm chatting with author, ex-evangelical and now atheist, John Loftus. John is the author of the recent book The Case Against Miracles, an anthology that aims to discuss miracles from a scholarly point of view. Along with several other noted academics, John takes aim at this topic, seeking not only to define miracles--but to ask whether or not there is even evidence to believe that such a thing exists. Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon John Loftus's Website Debunking Christianity Contact Details Follow John on Twitter @loftusjohnw Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
I apologize in advance for the long title, but when you hear this show, I promise it will be worth the listen!
This week's guests are the legendary returning guests, Conway & Siegelman. They wrote the hugely important and influential books Snapping in 1978 and then, just a few years later, came out with Holy Terror.
With their incredible, on-the-ground field research, they were among the first to track and study in depth the "cult phenomenon" of the 1970s, and then later the rise of the Christian Right in the late 1970s-80s.
In this episode we'll cover a lot of ground, so strap yourself in and hold on!
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http://stillpointpress.net
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Off the back of a recent Medium article I recently wrote on this subject, I decided to riff on this topic and so turn it into a podcast episode on its own. In this episode, I describe what life was like for me, growing up as a loyal foot soldier in "The Lord's Army." Thoroughly indoctrinated by my church and Christian school experiences alike, I had never heard the names of influencers like RJ Rushdoony and others who later came along and helped spread his Christian Reconstructionist and dominion agenda. If you grew up in church, or attended a Christian school--then you'll resonate with this bonus episode. Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This week's guest is sociologist and author Sam Perry, who co-wrote the book together with Dr Andrew Whitehead Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United States.
What makes their book on Christian nationalism different? The authors take a sociological approach to the subject, distilling data from nationwide surveys on religion, to uncover the motives and inspiration behind Christian nationalism.
Along the way, they discovered some fairly disturbing trends about what's going on in the intersection of evangelical Christianity and the American political scene today.
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Follow Sam Perry on Twitter @socofthesacred
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In this special bonus edition, I have the pleasure of bringing together three ex-evangelical pastors: myself, Tim Sledge, and David Hayward (better known as "The Naked Pastor.") A former megachurch pastor from Texas, Tim is the author of the bestselling books Goodbye Jesus and Four Disturbing Questions With One Simple Answer. David is of course best known for his poignant cartoons that, while poking fun at the church, often reveal the inbuilt patriarchy and misogyny of much of evangelicalism today. He is also the author of The Liberation of Sophia. Together, we not only analyze and unpack some of the more bizarre Christian responses to Covid-19, we'll also explore some of the motives that may perhaps be driving them from a theological and biblical point of view. If you're a Christian struggling with anxiety and are contemplating deconstructing your faith, then this episode is for you! Support Independent Media like MindShift Podcast on Patreon Contact Information Tim Sledge on Twitter @goodbye_Jesus David Hayard on Twitter @nakedpastor Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This week's guest is Katherine Stewart, author of the book The Power Worshippers: Inside the Dangerous Rise of Religious Nationalism. Katherine has devoted the last ten years of her life to uncovering, and telling the story publicly, of the many and varied ways in which the Religious Right and other Christian nationalist groups have infiltrated American society, from education to the top levels of politics. Should you be concerned about this movement? According to Katherine, religious nationalists don't want merely to establish a religion--they grasp political power. In their aim to establish a theocracy in America, the rights of many have already been trampled underfoot, with more on the way--if they achieve their agenda. Support Independent Media like MindShift Podcast on Patreon Contact Details Follow Katherine on Twitter @kathsstewart Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Check out my article, "An Interview with Katherine Stewart" on Medium
This week's guest is Stephanie McCown, author of Razed Evangelical: Losing My Faith But Finding Myself.
Stephanie is an unbelievable survivor--not only has she come out of a very toxic experience within evangelical Christianity, she is a cancer and addiction survivor also. But she had to navigate all of those experiences without God...and in the process, lost her faith--but found herself.
Also huge thanks go to Daniel Moore, who provided the song for the outro that he wrote and performed himself. Enjoy "On High" at the end of the show!
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Follow Stephanie on Twitter @StephanieMick75
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In this special bonus episode I am joined by therapist and friend from Canada, Janice Selbie, who has been a guest on the show a few times before. Janice was due to host the CORT2020 conference on religious trauma in just a few days--that is, until the COVID-19 outbreak forced her to cancel the conference. Hopefully it will be rescheduled at some point in the future. However, along with the unfortunate cancellation of the conference came a number of trauma-inducing events in her life in just the short space of a few weeks. How she has coped with those is unbelievable--and that she is willing not only to share her own story, but to help others during this unprecedented time, is nothing short of amazing. Support Independent Media like MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Information Follow Janice on Twitter @Wise_Counsellor or @divorcereligion Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This week's guest is psychologist, author and speaker Dr Marlene Winell, who--in many ways, it could be said--almost literally "wrote the book" on the subject of religious trauma syndrome, or RTS.
As you'll no doubt hear us discuss, this recording took place prior to the unfortunate cancellation of the CORT2020 conference which was to be held in Vancouver, BC. Dr Winell was meant to be one of the keynote speakers there.
Dr Winell authored the important book in 1994 entitled Leaving the Fold: A Guide for Former Fundamentalists and Others Leaving Their Religion. Off the back of that work, she went on to write articles identifying RTS, and has since devoted her life and practice to helping individuals who have left religion and struggle with various aspects of RTS.
I am sure that you will find this interview insightful, challenging and helpful on your journey out of religion, whatever that may look like.
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Do you identify as an ex-evangelical or as a post-evangelical? What is the difference between the two terms, and why should it matter? This week's episode features a conversation with Dan Koch, self-identified progressive Christian and host of the You Have Permission podcast. Dan's aim with his show is literally to "give permission" to people within Christianity who might be questioning various aspects of their faith. Believe it or not, one has the freedom to explore possibilities and options outside of what they may have been taught in their particular church or tradition. In this conversation we'll model what it's like to have a respectful and mutually-beneficial dialogue between two people who, as it turns out, have far more in agreement than disagreement! Support Independent Media like MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Information Follow Dan on Twitter @DanKoch Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018
This week's episode features a discussion with Julie Ingersoll, an expert on the oftentimes strange and bizarre world of Christian Reconstructionism. Julie wrote an extremely helpful book on this subject, entitled Building God's Kingdom: Inside the World of Christian Reconstructionism. We cover 3 major aspects of this movement: first its origins, second its impact on Christian education (and specifically Christian homeschooling), and conclude by looking at the impact of Christian Reconstructionism on the Christian Right--the politicization of evangelicalism today, seen most critically in the evangelical involvement in the Trump administration. Concerned? If you're not by now, you will be after listening to this episode! Support Independent Media Like MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Information Follow Julie on Twitter @julieingersoll Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Find out more about Christian Reconstructionism in my Medium article on the subject.
In this special bonus episode, I take a closer look at what Dr Robert Jay Lifton refers to as "the psychology of the pawn." Maybe you will resonate as I discuss 3 different examples from my experiences in the church and how I now realize that in many ways, I was but a pawn in much larger movements--of which I was totally unaware at the time.
This concept also relates to Lifton's category of "mystical manipulation" in which cults, religions and groups with undue influence exercise mind control over their followers. We think we have free will and are making informed choices...but perhaps not!
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This week's guest is Andrew Seidel, constitutional and civil rights attorney and atheist who works for the Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF.org) as the Director for Strategic Response. Andrew is also the author of the book The Founding Myth: How Christian Nationalism is Un-American. In this well-researched work, Andrew explodes the popular Christian revisionist history that "America was a Christian nation--and should become one again." Andrew and I discuss the fact that not only was America not a "Christian nation" historically, that hasn't stopped Christian nationalists from spreading this myth far and wide. What possible danger could this lie pose? Listen in to find out more! Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon! Contact Information Freedom From Religion website Follow Andrew on Twitter @AndrewLSeidel Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 The MindShift Podcast Blog
Why should you be concerned about dominion theology, and specifically the version of it known at "7 Mountains Dominion Theology," or the "7 Mountains Mandate"?
Although you may have never even heard of this movement, or are only slightly aware of it--you should be troubled. Right now, evangelicals have a major influence on the Trump administration, encouraging him to pass laws that favor "religious freedom"---in other words, their brand of white evangelical Christianity.
Prominent among many of those evangelicals are those who hold to dominion theology, and specifically the 7 mountains version of it. Recently, many of the key leaders of the movement held the "Awaken 2020" rally, featuring Kanye West as a headlining act that drew tens of thousands--but most of the speakers were 7 mountains dominionists.
They have an incredible reach in America and in the world today. This bonus episode will help you to unpack the often confusing and disorienting theology behind this incredibly pervasive movement.
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The inaugural episode of MindShift podcast for 2020 features returning guest, Dr André Gagné of Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. As an expert on this vast and frankly confusing field of dominion theology, and its many streams, Professor Gagné is the perfect guest to continue the conversation I started with him on our episode last year.
The evangelical support for Donald Trump should be an area of concern for anyone who values their liberties. And not only are there a great deal of conservative evangelicals pushing their agenda, increasingly we are discovering prominent dominion theologians among their ranks.
Dr Gagné and I discuss this, along with many other facets of this movement that is daily growing in influence not just in America, but indeed the world.
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The Open Letter Response to Christianity Today my article on Medium
In this final end-of-year episode, I take a look back not just on the year 2019 in terms of podcast episodes and great guests I've been privileged to talk to, but I get into my own deconversion story too. What's more important--to deconstruct your former beliefs, or to reconstruct your identity? I'll hopefully answer that question as I tell a bit more of my own personal story, as well as previewing a bit of what's coming ahead in 2020. Thanks for listening to MindShift Podcast in 2019--looking forward to what comes up in 2020! Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon in 2020! MindShift Podcast Patreon Link Contact Information Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like The MindShift Podcast Facebook Page MindShift Podcast Blog
This week's guest is interfaith chaplain and specialist in the area of grief, death, dying and toxic theology: Dr Terri Daniel. She literally wrote the book on this subject, which is entitled Grief and God: When Religion Does More Harm than Healing. Rev. Dr. Terri Daniel is also a certified trauma specialist and end-of-life educator certified in death, dying and bereavement by the Association of Death Education and Counseling. The focus of her work is to assist dying and grieving individuals to discover a more spiritually-spacious understanding of death and beyond. Support Independent Media Like MindShift Podcast! MindShift Podcast Patreon Link Contact Information http://danieldirect.net Follow Terri on Twitter @DrTerriDaniel1 Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 MindShift Podcast Blog
I recently had the pleasure of speaking with ex-Jehovah's Witness and now independent filmmaker, Kamila Dydyna, who is attempting to raise funds for an important short film project entitled "Debutante."
This work will explore the psychological aspects of what it's like to experience shunning as a JW--and what the people who are commanded to shun have to go through also.
But before we discuss her upcoming film, we discuss Kamila's backstory in the Watchtower, how it compares to identifiable cult markers, and what gave rise to her desire to produce this important work.
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Vi La Bianca is the co-host of the ACA's "Secular Sexuality" and "Talk Heathen" shows. But she wasn't always an atheist...as it turns out, Vi grew up in a fundamentalist family cult.
In this episode, Vi and I make use of established models of cults by experts, and apply it to her life growing up. How can she describe her growing up experience as being part of a "family cult"? What is that, anyway, and how did it operate? And more importantly, how did she get out--and what does her life look like now, as an atheist, going forward?
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After literally months of delays, rescheduling, etc., I have finally been able to track down the elusive Dr Janja Lalich for a great podcast interview!
Dr Lalich is not only a sociologist and a cult expert, she is also a cult survivor too. This places her in the unique position to be able to give incredible insights as to the inner workings of cult psychology, the person of the leader, why people stay in cults, and how to reconstruct one's identity after leaving the group behind.
If you're an ex-cultist, or have left any sort of group with undue influence, then this episode will be of great benefit to you.
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This week's guest is former evangelical pastor and now atheist, Dave Warnock. What's Dave's story? If you know anything about him at all, you'll know that he travels all over the country speaking on the topic of being an atheist...and facing death apart from religious dogma. A few years ago, Dave was diagnosed with ALS--a terminal illness. At best, he may have 3-5 years to live. But rather than turning his face to the wall, or cursing God for his disease, Dave is living life to the fullest...seizing the day...and helping thousands of other people face death with dignity, free from the constraints religion so often places upon us. Support Independent Media like MindShift Podcast on Patreon! MindShift Podcast Patreon Link Contact Details Follow Dave on Twitter @dwwarnock DaveOutLoud.com Follow Me On Twitter @MindShift2018 MindShift Podcast Blog
This special edition of MindShift Podcast features Renee Cordeschi, an ex-Jehovah's Witness and survivor of both domestic violence and sexual abuse as a member of the Watchtower organization. On the 22nd of November, 2019, in Melbourne, Australia, the Witnesses are holding a massive conference entitled "Love Never Fails." Renee, along with several hundred other ex-JWs, are planning to stage a peaceful protest entitled "Love Never Shuns." In this episode, Renee describes her own backstory in the org, points out the toxic and cultic teachings she experienced, and explains why it's important to shine the light on this org that has covered up so much serial sexual abusers within its ranks. Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon MindShift Podcast Patreon Link Contact Information Follow Renee on Twitter @reneecordeschi Renee's Facebook Page Link Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 MindShift Podcast Blog Link
I've finally gotten back to this subject of dominion theology--and in my research, I've come across an expert on the subject: Dr Andr̕e Gagn̕̕̕e of Concordia University in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Dr Gagn̕̕̕e and I provide a helpful overview of this important and timely subject, raising awareness of this incredibly pervasive teaching that has infiltrated large swathes of Christianity worldwide. Why should YOU care? Because one of the main aims of dominion theology is the Christian takeover of the world in order to install a theocracy--the rule of God, and Jesus, over the entire world...not to mention putting Christians in key positions of power, influence and authority over literally every sphere of society. Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon! MindShift Patreon Link Contact Information Dr Gagne's YouTube Channel Follow Dr Gagn̕̕̕e on Twitter @profagagne Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 MindShift Podcast Blog
If you've left fundamentalist religion behind, or a cult or any high-control group with undue influence, then you've likely suffered from RTS--religious trauma syndrome. This week's chat features a specialist who works with clients who suffer from RTS, psychotherapist Laura Anderson. Leaving religion behind is traumatic enough, as we have to deal with grief, loss, anger, feelings of betrayal, and the various abuses we may have suffered while in the system. But after walking away, many of us have to deal with the lingering effects of RTS, which is actually more akin to PTSD. Symptoms of RTS include triggering, sudden feelings of loss, anger, or control, to name a few. Identifying them, and secondly developing a helpful strategy of dealing with them when-not if--they occur, is the way forward in terms of reconstructing our identity post-religion. Support MindShift Podcast on Patreon! MindShift Patreon Page Contact Information Laura Anderson Website Promo Code for Resource: RELIGIOUSTRAUMA15 Follow Laura on Twitter @ms_elleanderson Follow me on Twitter @MindShift2018 Like the MindShift Podcast Facebook Page MindShift Podcast Website and Blog link
This week's guest is former evangelical pastor, and yet still remains a person of faith--Bill Prickett. Bill is currently the co-host of the Recovering From Religion podcast, and is speaking out about his time as a pastor--and survivor of evangelical "conversion therapy."
In conservative evangelical circles, coming out as gay is one of the most difficult journeys to navigate. They can't admit that you were born that way, or made that way by God--as in most evangelical's views, homosexuality is one of the worst sins people can engage in.
So in their view--God has a vested interest in making you straight again...and not only was Bill a victim of this system, as a pastor he promoted it for years. Find out more in this amazing interview!
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Tweet This episode of MindShift podcast features a great conversation with Brady Hardin, the co-host of the Life After Podcast.
Brady tells an amazing story of how he struggled to suppress his sexuality as a young person growing up within evangelical Christianity, even to the point of getting married in order to present the world with a ‘normal’ image of a happy, adjusted heterosexual family.
Unfortunately, things didn’t stay that way…a lot of religious trauma and shunning later, Brady is now out and proudly telling his story–including being in a position to help many people who struggle with many of the issues we talk about in this episode.
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Tweet This week’s interview features ex-Scientologist and author, Jon Atack. Jon is the world’s foremost expert on the history of both Scientology as well as its founder, L. Ron Hubbard.
His bestselling book, Let’s Sell These People a Piece of Blue Sky, re-released just a few years ago, is considered the best-researched factual history of Scientology.
More importantly for our purposes, perhaps, is Jon’s more recent focus on helping people to recover from their cultic experiences–a topic that we get into toward the end of this insightful and wide-ranging discussion.
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Tweet This week’s episode of MindShift podcast features a conversation with ex-Mormon Claudine Gallacher. Not only has she deconstructed her own Mormon faith and left the religion far behind, she currently helps those who have left the religion, as the founder of the Post-Mormon Mental Health organization.
In this helpful chat, we’ll move beyond simply hearing Claudine’s own backstory within the cult and her subsequent departure, we get into issues of her current situation–including coping with adult children who are still very much involved in the religion. Beyond that, we get into a “mini-counseling session” as we discuss what triggering is all about.
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Tweet According to Jeff Sharlet’s 2008 book The Family: the Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of America’s Power, as well as the recent Netflix documentary series entitled The Family, there is a secretive organization at the heart of not just American political power, but one that has a global reach too: The Family, or The Fellowship (as they refer to themselves).
Begun in 1935 by one Dr Abraham Vereide in Seattle, Washington, the organization has grown in both scope and scale since then. The only public event The Family hosts is the National Prayer Breakfast, held in Washington DC every February, an event that every single President since Eisenhower has attended.
But what is The Family all about? And more importantly, are there links to what is referred to as “dominion theology?” In this special bonus episode, I’ll explore both the history of The Family as well as begin to unpack what dominion theology is all about.
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Tweet This week’s episode features a strong woman with a truly unbelievable story to tell–Briell Decker Blanchart, who grew up in the FLDS (Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints) cult, led by “prophet” Warren Jeffs.
Now in prison for life on multiple charges of child abuse, Jeffs was the undisputed leader of the cult during the time Briell was born and raised in the cult. Her story of life in the cult, how she came to be his 65th wife, and her unbelievable escape, are truly nothing short of amazing.
Now she makes it her life’s goal to help those who have escaped the cult and integrate into the real world. Find out more of Briell’s inspirational story in this episode!
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Tweet This week’s discussion features a wide-ranging conversation with ex-pastor (and now atheist) Tim Sledge, out of Texas.
A former megachurch pastor in the Houston area, Tim underwent a significant change of both heart and of faith, culminating in him walking away not just from the church, but from the faith altogether.
Now an atheist, Tim has chronicled his journey in his book Goodbye Jesus –and he is also is a prolific Twitter personality who regularly tweets about very thought-provoking and challenging issues around deconstructing Christianity and religion.
Tim and I discuss, among other things, not only his journey, but the phenomenon of the 81% white evangelical Donald Trump supporters. Where is all of this leading? As a former pastor himself, Tim provides a unique insight into this situation of American evangelicalism today.
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Tweet Is there a place for religion in the world today?
History demonstrates that humanity is incurably religious…we can’t seem to separate humans from their beliefs. But it is a demonstrable fact that religion, and religionism, have done tremendous amounts of damage over the centuries–from religious wars, terrorism in the name of God, religious trauma, cults, and all sorts of religious trauma and sexual abuse.
So many people need to recover from the harmful effects of religion that Dr Ray has started two organizations to help people do just that–Recovering from Religion Foundation, as well as the Secular Therapy Project.
Find out more about Darrel’s work, as well as what might be in your future should you too need to recover from religion.
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Tweet This week’s guest is author, speaker and podcaster Natalie Hoffman, survivor of not just an emotionally abusive marriage, but also of religious trauma.
Oftentimes it’s religion itself that causes in the first place–or mightily contributes to–emotionally abusive or dysfunctional marriages and relationships. In the case of Christian evangelicalism, add in the inbuilt patriarchy and misogyny of the system itself, based on literalistic readings of the Bible, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Not only did Natalie escape to find freedom, she is now in a position to assist others who are working their way out of emotionally abusive relationships.
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Tweet This episode features a hugely informative and insightful information with two of my personal heroes, Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman out of New York City.
Authors of the massively influential books Snapping and Holy Terror, Conway & Siegelman have for decades been recognized as two of the foremost experts and investigators on the world of both the cults and Christian fundamentalism.
Specifically, we discuss the phenomenon of “snapping” and “information disease” and find out how Christian fundamentalism’s current bid for political power started back in the late 1970s and continues on today using, and abusing, information and communication techniques–just like the cults!
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Tweet After many months of anxious waiting, I finally re-connected with this week’s guest: Dassi Erlich, survivor of both sexual abuse and a very cultic, controlling Jewish fundamentalist sect in Melbourne, Australia.
Not only is this amazing woman surviving, she’s leading the fight for justice–to bring her abuser to trial, to answer for her many abuses of children both in Israel and Australia. Listen in to hear Dassi’s amazing journey away from this Jewish sect, and her continuing battle for justice for her and the many victims of this abuser.
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This week's episode features returning guest, Canadian therapist Janice Selbie! Fresh off a conference in San Fransisco, CA., led by Dr Marlene Winell, Janice returned home full of ideas for discussion.
Fortunately, the guest I'd had lined up had to cancel--so Janice gracefully stepped up at the last minute as a replacement! And we had a phenomenal discussion about sex, and specifically how religion can seriously mess up people when it comes to this subject.
Join myself and Janice for this helpful and frank discussion on the topic of...sex!
After publishing my article "Rapture Anxiety" on Medium several weeks ago, many who read it asked if I could do a special episode on not just the topic of the movie itself, but also critically assess its theology.
In this bonus episode, not only do I delve into the theological interpretation of its creator, I further get into various interpretative issues around biblical prophetic and apocalyptic literature--and the problems that poses for those who would portray those events in book or movie form.
If you were forced to watch these traumatic movies as a child, then this episode will help you to process through some of the trauma you may have experienced that, for many of us, lingers well into adulthood.
This week's episode features a great conversation with Bethany Carter, who became an atheist after confronting a lot of issues around the subject of...spanking her children?
Find out how this particular issue started Bethany off on the road of deconstruction of her former evangelical beliefs, including questioning God, the Bible and its many issues, and why she no longer counts herself as a believer.
This week's episode features a conversation with author Ronna Russell, whose book "The Uncomfortable Confessions of a Preacher's Kid" has just recently come out.
We talk about Ronna's backstory, growing up as a preacher's kid in evangelical churches. But what happens when things don't go the way they're planned, and all the pieces don't fit into the nice "churchy puzzle?"
Ronna has worked through some absolutely amazing experiences, and this episode will be helpful as much as it is empowering for those who grew up in church, and who have since walked away from it all.
In this special follow-up bonus episode to the one I recently did on "The Psychology of Conversion," I move further into developing psychiatrist Dr Robert Jay Lifton's model of cult formation.
Lifton demonstrates how, in 8 different ways and methods, cults and cult leaders operate to control and manipulate their followers. This is a fascinating study for me, and has proven to be very helpful for others who have come out of cults or groups with undue influence.
Beyond exploring his 8 characteristics of cults, I also delve a bit into the markers of cult leaders and how it is they tend to operate. Further, I relate much of it to evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity, which is my own background.
Keeping it in the Great White North, this week I'm returning to Canada for a great conversation with Neil604--the Canadian atheist!
On his YouTube channel, Neil loves to speak with people who have left religion behind--religious deconversion, spiritual transitions, divorcing religions--whatever you'd like to call it.
Religion has done a tremendous amount of harm to humanity, in spite of its claims to the contrary. Strip away the ideology, and much of it looks very similar in terms of the psychological, and other, effects on people worldwide.
In this conversation, we get into Neil's own story and discuss how people can recover from their time spent in religion.
In this return visit from Canadian ex-evangelical David Hayward, "The Naked Pastor," we get right into the subject of religious trauma, how evangelical churches can resemble cults, and how people can recover from the damage they may have suffered while in the system.
As a former evangelical pastor like myself, David has a large and supportive group of people who have left church, and possibly their Christian faith too, behind them. But they are in recovery...which means David is ideally placed to serve as a pastor--somewhat ironically, since he's left the church long ago!
As I've been connecting with more and more ex-cult members, I have been learning that even though each cult has very different ideology, the psychology of mind control, thought reform, manipulation, abuse and exploitation is virtually identical group to group.
Thus, whether you've come out of a dangerous cult group, or a fundamentalist Christian church--chances are, you'll have suffered a lot of religious trauma, identity suppression, and many other forms of abuse.
Helping you to recover from your experiences in such groups is the goal of people like this week's guest, former Scientologist Chris Shelton. Although we don't delve much into Scientology itself, we get into the practicalities of how groups control their followers--and how you can rebuild your sense of identity after leaving.
This special bonus episode draws upon the work of psychologist Dr Robert Lifton and his seminal 1961 work on the psychology of brainwashing, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of "Brainwashing" in China.
In particular, I make use of Lifton's 12-step model to explore further the psychology of conversion, as well as what happens to a person who deconstructs his or her religious faith and leaves their church or cult group behind--the process of "deconversion," or spiritual transitioning.
This is a helpful discussion particularly for ex-evangelicals, but also for those who have left a cult. Unpicking the conditioning, and understanding how you were controlled and manipulated will help you reconstruct your sense of self--and your identity.
In this episode of MindShift podcast, I catch up with Keith Davis, formerly of the Pilgrims & Prodigals podcast. Last year we had a great chat with ended up on their show, and since then a lot has changed--both for Keith and myself.
Since I've been studying the psychological aspects of how cults (and some evangelical churches too) control, manipulate and coerce their followers, I wanted to see if Keith's experiences in evangelicalism matched up to the classic markers of cults as laid out by psychologist Robert Lifton in his 1981 article, "Cult Formation."
In our exploration of the cult-like aspects of evangelicalism, Keith and I discuss theology and coercion--why the dogmas of evangelicalism, along with the mind control aspects, have affected us psychologically and in other ways--and how we're recovering from it all.
This week's episode of MindShift podcast features cult expert Rick Alan Ross, author of the book Cults Inside Out: How People Get in and Can Get Out. Rick is not just someone who is informed about cults--he is a court-certified expert who has testified in multiple cases in courts all across America related to cults.
In this informative and thought-provoking episode, I have a whole series of questions I had prepared for Rick, as I had been doing reading and research on how cults operate, controlling and manipulating their followers. In our discussion, we covered not only most of the questions, but went further into areas related to cults: fundamentalism and its associated dangers.
If you're an ex-evangelical, or ex-cult member looking to educate yourself and reconstruct your identity, then this episode is for you!
Catch the early release of my conversation with 2 ex-Jehovah's Witnesses from Melbourne, Australia: Lara Kaput and Steven Unthank.
We'll go behind the scenes of the Watchtower organization and talk about not only their experiences of leaving the cult behind, but major issues such as the epidemic of child sexual abuse within the organization that has been covered up by the Watchtower for decades.
In this episode of MindShift podcast, I talk to ex-pastor, ex-evangelical and...progressive Christian, Chris Kratzer.
Chris is the author of the new book Leatherbound Terrorism: Crucified by Conservative Christianity, Resurrected by Jesus. Although Chris is no fan of conservative evangelicalism, somehow he has not abandoned his beliefs in God and Jesus--albeit in a radically different form.
So why didn't Chris walk away from it all? And why is he, although still considering himself a Christian, so vociferously speaking out against the evils of the church?
In this inaugural episode of MindShift podcast for 2019, I begin to explore what--if any--connections exist between the world of recognized, mainstream cults and the evangelical church.
Most evangelicals would doubtless be outraged and offended if anyone suggested their church might in any way resemble a cult. But since the symptoms reported by both ex-cultists and ex-evangelicals are remarkably similar, I began to wonder if there surely must be a connection between the two.
Listen in to find out more on this fascinating and intriguing topic!
In this final episode of MindShift podcast for 2018, I bring back a guest from the buckle of the Bible belt in the South of the United States--one "Seamus Clarke." In our previous episodes, Seamus mentioned that the film "The Last Temptation of Christ" was hugely helpful in his deconstruction journey. So in this episode, we not only unpack the movie in more detail, we examine the evangelical and fundamentalist responses to it--30 years ago back in 1988 when it came out. We also delve into the many issues the film raises: the humanity of Christ, how the portrayal of him having sex impacts upon the evangelical purity culture, the reliability of the Gospels, and more.
Several months ago, Andrew was a guest on MindShift podcast and provided a lot of very helpful analysis regarding much of what causes religious trauma--particularly in evangelical Christianity.
In this episode, Andrew and I get into the specifics of what emotional health looks like, particularly for the person who has de-converted from religion. Andrew not only explores spirituality as a path for healing from religious trauma, he also provides a wide range of options for exploration.
In September of this year, I caught up with Andrew Gurevich down in Portland, OR and sat down for a great interview around the topic of "reconstruction after deconstruction."
In this process, it turns out that reconstructing involves nothing less than...a total reorientation of our former worldviews, belief systems, and identities. If you've left religion behind, and are wondering what happens next--then you'll get a lot out of this wide-ranging and challenging conversation.
Back in September I caught up with ex-missionary and author, Steve Slocum, for a great podcast interview about his upcoming book: Why Do They Hate Us? Making Peace with the Muslim World.
The title of his book is taken from a speech given by President George W. Bush mere weeks after 9/11--giving Bush's justification for "why they (Muslims?) hate us." Steve will explain not only what that speech meant both to Muslims and those in the West since then, but also offers up a way forward for understanding and peace to occur.
In a world fueled by hateful rhetoric, coming from political and religious leaders alike, this kind of conversation is sorely needed today.
In this special edition of MindShift podcast, I talk to filmmaker Christopher Maloney about his project entitled "In God We Trump."
What are the implications for the evangelical church going forward, based upon the fact that 81% of (largely white) evangelical Christians not only voted to elect Trump in 2016, but many continue to support him and many of his policies?
Statistics have shown that thousands have left evangelical churches over the issue; and beyond that, many have given up their Christian faith also, citing this "deal with the devil" as the last straw.
Listen in as Chris and I discuss the film, the reasons so many voted Trump, and what the future holds for evangelicalism in America--and the world.
This week's episode features a conversation with Canadian ex-fundamentalist Janice Selbie. Now a trained counselor, she now helps people cope with the grief, loss and trauma associated with deconversion and spiritual transitions. This is Janice's passion--to assist people in dealing with issues and problems from their past that may well be negatively impacting their lives and mental health currently. Leaving one's religion behind is incredibly difficult, and along with that decision comes oftentimes a high social cost that must be paid also. In this edition, Janice offers up practical, helpful advice for those who are...walking the path of deconversion.
Deconstruction looks different for everybody--this is something I've learned from talking to many ex-evangelicals. Some become atheists, agnostics, angry theists; in fact there's a spectrum of paths people take. In the case of Jimmy, however, his deconstruction looked entirely different: the sloughing off of the structures and strictures of evangelical, "American Christianity." What was left was...a return to a profound experience of God he'd had as a young man. Find out more of Jimmy's journey in this episode!
In this episode, I talk to author and ex-fundamentalist, Sheri Pallas. Her new book is entitled "Man Has Ruined God: My Journey out of Religion and Into the Arms of God." This is the substance of our great conversation--how exactly has Sheri survived such a toxic religious background, only to deconstruct her beliefs and yet somehow retain a view of God? Although, as we will discover, this view of God is radically different than her former evangelical belief. Join myself and Sheri for a thought-provoking conversation!
Back in September of 2018, myself and Stacie Rae, "The Resting Traveller," put on a live podcast in the Seattle, Washington area. Together with a live audience, we had a great discussion on the topic of "reconstruction after deconstruction." If you've left the church behind--and possibly your former faith too--where do you go from here? Turns out that deconstruction isn't the end game; rather, we need to go about reconstructing a brand-new identity: the reconstruction piece. Join us as we explore this important topic!
Catch this great conversation between myself and my sister, Valerie Heacock Cunningham! This is a 1-year update from our podcast we did last year entitled "Surviving a Fundamentalist Upbringing." What's changed in both of our lives since last year? How have we processed the traumatic experiences from our evangelical and fundamentalist past, and moved past it? How have we disentangled ourselves from religion, and how has that changed us? Find out in this episode!
Catch the second half of my conversation with Australian Dr Josie McSkimming, a clinical social worker and ex-evangelical who now focuses on helping those who come out of controlling and fundamentalist religions.
In this second half of our conversation, Josie and I delve a bit more into her book, "Leaving Christian Fundamentalism and the Reconstruction of Identity." This piece of "reconstruction after deconstruction" is hugely important, and in this episode we get into a great discussion about the dynamics around what this looks like.
In this special bonus edition of MindShift Podast, I interview Andy Herndon as we discuss his important upcoming domentary film entitled "The eXvangelicals: A Documentary."
Not only do we get into Andy's own backstory of deconstructing his former evangelical faith, we discuss what led him to start this journey of documenting the many stories of people from the ex-evangelical community.
Find out how you can be involved in this exciting project by listening in!
Part 1 of my conversation with Dr Josie McSkimming from Sydney, Australia, focuses on her own backstory in evangelicalism, and how she escaped the system.
Now a clinical social worker who counsels those who have left religion behind, she has since authored the book "Leaving Christian Fundamentalism and the Reconstruction of Identity."
Find out more in this fascinating conversation with an ex-fundamentalist from Down Under!
In this Part 2 episode with Cindy Wang Brandt from Taiwan, we get into more specifics around how exactly one might classify raising children within evangelicalism as "predatory."
Is it good and right for parents to pass along core values that are important to them? Including their own religion? Or should parents give children the space and autonomy to choose their own path spiritually?
Find out more in this thought-provoking conversation!
Should raising children in an evangelical Christian environment be considered "predatory" on the part of the parents?
My guest today, Cindy Wang Brandt from Taiwan, believes that in certain circumstances it absolutely is predatory. Children may not have the capacity or awareness to filter out teaching that may, in the end, prove to be abusive or harmful to their psychological, sexual, and relational development.
Find out more in Part 1 of this fascinating conversation!
In this second episode with David Haward, "the Naked Pastor," we get even more in depth processing the experiences of those who are deconstructing their former faith.
David breaks down exactly just how all-pervasive religion can be, as well as the effects on their followers. Thus, leaving such a context--where we formed relationships and our very identities--is extremely difficult.
It will likely take us...the rest of our lives! Join us on the journey.
Are you an ex-evangelical who is deconstructing your former evangelical faith? Then you will benefit from this very helpful conversation with Canadian ex-evangelical pastor David Hayward, who is also known as "The Naked Pastor."
I learned so much from this very practical conversation--coming from a man who not only walked away from the church (and quite possibly the Christian faith too), but who also now sees it as his mission to help others with their journey of deconstruction and discovery.
In this episode we discuss David's backstory and then get into the practicalities of what deconstruction actually looks like in the real world.
In this second half of my conversation with self-confessed "exvangelical" and Twitter personality Chris Stroop, we finally get to the conclusion of Chris's story of deconstructing his former beliefs and ultimately walking away from the evangelicalism he grew up with.
We also delve into the background of the Religious Right in America, tracing their roots back to the early days of fundamentalism. Chris develops how that reactionary and militant movement still finds its expression not just in American right-wing politics today, but also is heavily involved in trying to win what they view as a "global culture war."
Part 1 of my conversation with fellow ex-evangelical and "Twitter personality" Chris Stroop features an exploration of his own journey out of evangelicalism.
What happened to Chris when, as a student in a Christian high school, had a crisis of faith? Like so many, he sought help from a pastor friend...but was that encounter successful in keeping him in the faith?
Find out more about Chris and his journey in this episode!
This week's episode features the second half of my conversation with a buddy with whom I went to a fundamentalist Christian high school back in the mid-1980s.
Jeff and I share hilarious and poignant stories of what it was like growing up in such a conservative environment. Is it any wonder that kids raised in such a repressive context tend to rebel against any and all authority?
Tune in for Part 2 and laugh through the tears...
While on a recent trip to Seattle, Washington, I met up with a former classmate of mine, and good friend, Jeff Judd. We went to a conservative evangelical Christian high school back in the 1980s, and together, Jeff and I reminisce about the nutty, zany, and just downright insane aspects of...growing up evangelical.
You literally could not make this shit up. Come along and laugh with us in this first episode!
Timed to coincide with a workshop entitled "Reclaiming Sexuality from Religion" that my guest, Andrew Jasko, is doing in Oakland, CA on the 14th of August, this episode takes a deep dive into religion and its effects.
Religion is ultimately disempowering, claims Andrew, because you are taking the word of another person--an authority figure--not only to diagnose your spiritual problems, but also to provide the solution.
This dynamic leads to all sorts of abuses: spiritually, emotionally, psychologically, and in terms of sexuality. Join us as we discuss all of this and more in this fantastic episode!
Many stories that come out of evangelicalism and fundamentalism are simply...too bizarre to have been made up!
In this episode, I'll delve into some of the craziest church stories you've ever heard, drawn from the great interaction I've been having with Exvangelicals on Twitter.
And what does all of this have to do with having dinner with Satan?? Listen in to find out--!
In the second half of my conversation with Twitter personality and ex-evangelical Daniel Hobbs, we get into the future of the ex-evangelical, or exvangelical, movement...whatever it actually is.
What's his vision for this movement? Is it merely a reactionary thing that is upset and angry at being hurt by forces within evangelicalism? Where is it going, what's the point, and what does he see for the movement in the future?
Coming from a very well-reasoned and well-thought-through place, Daniel shares his insights, thoughts and comments as to where it's all headed...and what his part is in it all.
Part 1 of my conversation with ex-evangelical Daniel Hobbs gets into his background in evangelicalism. Growing up evangelical, attending church and Bible college, then later as a youth pastor in a more liberal Presbyterian Church with a supposed value for social justice and community involvement.
So what started his deconstruction process?
Seeing the hypocrisy and inconsistencies within the church, as well as reading certain progressive Christian authors, started him off...and once on that journey, he's never looked back--and he's now a leading voice in the ex-evangelical community.
In Part 2 of my conversation with ex-evangelical Brian Staples, we'll dive further into our views of God, experiences of fundamentalist Christianity, and talk about the impact evangelicalism is having on American politics today.
Brian will also offer up advice for those who have left the church behind, but aren't sure where to go next...or maybe those who are still within the church, but are questioning everything.
Where do you go from there? Listen in to find out!
While on a recent trip to the States from the UK, I met up with an old Bible College buddy, Brian Staples. We had a great conversation about his own journey of deconstruction and discovery of his former Christian faith.
In Part 1, we'll delve into Brian's backstory: raised in a narrowly fundamentalist church by a father who subscribed to white supremacist "Christian" views, how did Brian escape that world, and somehow not hold the exact same point of view?
Find out in Part 1!
In Part 2 of my chat with Steve Stone Sr., the "Starbucks Pastor," we get into the motivations behind Steve's often provocative and (to some for sure), irritating Facebook posts.
Steve regularly posts strong statements about Christianity...religion...politics in America...the evangelical support for Donald Trump...and for the inclusion of the LGBTQ+ community within the Christian church.
To say that these posts are controversial, for a retired pastor of more than 20 years, would be an understatement. Just reading the responses Steve gets runs the gamut: from outraged fundamentalists to those who support him wholeheartedly.
Find out why he puts himself on the firing line in Part 2!
In Part 1 with Steve Stone Sr., also known as "the Starbucks Pastor," Steve shares his backstory: growing up in a fundamentalist church in the South...yet at the same time experienced life in the real world that did not match the narrow message they preached.
Find out how Steve's journey took him away from fundamentalism, into a life of sex, drugs and rock n' roll, and then later discovering the ethic of love--as he believes the simple message of Jesus to be, as portrayed within the Gospels.
What is this "ethic of love" and how does it relate to his vision of spirituality and loving inclusion of "the other"?
In Part 2 of my conversation with Canadian Sam Morse from the Out of Eden podcast, we delve further into the question of how (or indeed, why) a person might be able to retain various aspects of his or her Christianity--post-deconstruction.
This involves, of necessity, a re-examination of one's views on both God and the Bible--how you approach the text (hermeneutics, or lens through which we read Scripture) will of necessity change your views of God and Jesus.
This strikes at the very heart of the issue: change your views on God and the Bible, and your former Christian faith (if you have any left) will never be the same again.
If you've deconstructed your former Christian faith, do you believe there's anything worth salvaging?
This week's guest, Sam Morse (host of the Out of Eden podcast) and I discuss this very question: can you retain a view of God once you begin to question the whole construct of Christianity?
For Sam, the answer is Yes--albeit with a very radically deconstructed and different view of both God and the Bible.
Find out where he is on the journey in Part 1.
What might Martin Luther's "theology of the cross" have to say to a modern-day post-evangelical Christian?
This is even more the case when that theology has been filtered through radical theology and the work of Deitrich Boenhoffer.
In Part 2 of our conversation, Dutch theologian Josh deKeyzer and I discuss how he came to this position--although sometimes he admits he can be an "angry theist" too.
Not all of the kinks have been ironed out, but he does retain a view of God--albeit a radically different version than his former fundamentalist views of God!
What do you do when evangelicalism no longer works for you?
This involves your views of God...the Bible...and Christianity in general. Are you deconstructing your former faith? If so, where are you on this spiritual journey?
This question I've been asking over the last few weeks continues with Dr Josh deKeyzer from The Netherlands. While in seminary in the USA, he began deconstructing his former very narrow evangelical faith.
In this episode Josh tells his story and how he began to view everything differently...and what that did to his entire belief system.
Deconstruction of the Christian faith looks different for everyone.
Some have become angry atheists; angry theists; or agnostic. Some, like Stacie Rae "The Resting Traveller," have not only deconstructed--they've reconstructed their former views of God.
In this episode Stacie and I discuss how she overcame crippling anxiety, depression and thoughts of suicide to do just that--combined with a new understanding of the Bible, too.
Where are you along the path of this thing we call "the spiritual journey"?
If you're deconstructing your former Christian faith, have you been able to retain a view of God? How do you read the Bible now, if you still do?
These are all questions Stacie Rae "The Resting Traveller" and I tackle in this week's episode. Despite a very traumatic upbringing in the church, and questioning her very identity, Stacie has been able to retain a view of God and of the Bible--but not without experiencing major loneliness, anxiety, and depression first.
Why burn down patriarchy in religion?
Sarah Smith, the host of Theosophia podcast, is passionate about promoting women's voices in theology and in religion. She is passionate about bringing out this perspective, since historically patriarchal religions have long silence, oppressed and marginalized women.
Sarah opens up about her backstory--yet through all the pain of growing up in a toxic evangelical background, she has somehow retained her beliefs in God and the Bible. But how?
There is no question: religion is incredibly important to humanity.
It has permeated every single aspect of human life: music, language, politics, literature, our communities and more. Yet what has been the effect of religion on women? It turns out that religion has not exactly been kind to women, both historically and presently.
Karen Garst, "the faithless feminist" and I discuss this issue related to her upcoming new book Women v. Religion: The Case Against Faith...and For Freedom. In the book, multiple women contributed chapters, and discuss both the historical and current effects of all 3 Abrahamic religions on women--Judaism, Islam and Christianity.
How does the African-American civil rights movement impact upon the state of black churches in America today? And should it be important to understand the legacy of African-American atheists and free thinkers?
Today's conversation features the continuation of last week's discussion related to the history of African-American peoples and how that has affected black churches (and treatment of African-American women specifically).
Deanna Adams is an atheist, womanist and author who brings a fascinating perspective to the table, as an African-American woman.
How did the transatlantic slave trade and the resulting cultural violence affect Africans? Add to this the introduction of "white Christianity" into the mix and what results helps to explain much of the current situation within many African-American churches today.
This week's episode features a fascinating conversation with Valerie Wade: author, historian, and "cultural Christian." Valerie shares a particular fascination not just with history, but specifically focuses upon the treatment of African-American women in black churches currently.
Even though African-American women make up a large majority of black churches in terms of attendance and finance, they have historically not been allowed to have leadership roles, or to able to preach. Valerie offers up some fascinating historical and cultural insights on this issue.
In this second episode we pick up Dana's story from last week: coming out as a transgender woman and having to formulate a plan to do so, without her entire world falling apart.
Part 2 continues that story and also develops what happened when she and her spouse decided to talk to the pastor of their church, where they were both heavily involved in leadership.
Would either end well? And where is Dana now, in terms of her own faith journey, as well as her transition?
Listen in to find out!
What's it like to grow up in the evangelical church culture, with parents who were pastors, but all the while struggle with your own gender identity?
What do you do when you're married with a family, involved in church leadership, yet have the feeling inside that you're not being honest with yourself about your own gender?
How does God factor into all of this also?
This week we're going to hear exactly what it's like from my friend, Dana Stinson.
Making it all the more difficult for Dana was the cognitive dissonance--the conflicted thinking--of trying to balance what the church taught about gender identity and her own, internal feelings and struggles.
If you don't know a trans person at all, well...now you do! Listening to another person's experiences and points of view--with an open mind--is one of the best ways to enter into their world and see things from their perspective.
What's it like to attend a Christian school? And what happens if you've never had any experience of Christianity or the Bible?
This week's guest, Tim Malins, is an old friend from way back--he moved up from Southern California to Washington State at the tender age of just 12 or 13. We met at the Christian fundamentalist school I and several other church friends attended.
This is Tim's story: how fundamentalism affected his mental health; introduced conflicted thinking via the concepts of "secularism;" scared him with end-times prophecy creationism, and more.
He's since become an atheist...
Did Jesus of Nazareth actually exist?
Believe it or not, this is not the first time this question has been posed by theologians and biblical scholars.
Dating to the 18th and 19th centuries, scholars responding to biblical higher criticism sought to find the "real Jesus of history"--not the Jesus of the Gospels, whom they alleged had been covered up by layers of traditions.
But today, mythicist and atheist David Fitzgerald questions whether Jesus even lived at all, or if he was indeed a construct of literary and theological notions. Author of Nailed: 10 Christian Myths that show Jesus Never Existed at All and Jesus: Mything in Action, David searches both the biblical and historical records to see if Jesus ever walked the earth.
Join me for the first half of this challenging and thought-provoking discussion!
Should Christians who believe in "young earth creation" be threatened by the notion of ancient civilizations that predate all major world religions?
Only if their own worldview is so narrowly restricted with a literalist reading of the Bible.
In the second half of my conversation with Andrew Gurevich of Portland, OR, we somehow tie together: apophatic theology, neurology, politics on the right and left, and paleolithic cave art.
How is this possible? I'm not entirely sure myself, but somehow Andrew is able to tie all those seemingly diverse threads together and make it work.
How does a person go from evangelical Christian, studying at Bible college and seminary, to becoming an angry atheist and now an expert in paleolithic cave art?
Believe it or not, this trajectory describes the life of this week's guest: Andrew Gurevich of Portland, OR, USA. A leading mythologist and teacher of world religions, Andrew is fast becoming an expert on not just ancient cave art, but also explores the connections between humanity, religion, spirituality, politics, and tribalism.
In this first half, Andrew talks about his upbringing and how it's all come full-circle somehow, in this process of becoming who he is.
Part 2 of my conversation with "Seamus Clarke" (a pseudonym) continues our exploration of the deconstruction of his Christian faith.
What happens when you mix the childhood trauma of sexual abuse, a distant father with major issues of his own, evangelical dogma, "spiritual bypassing," and life in a red-state, Trump-supporting Bible belt? Let "Seamus" tell his story of a man who is in the process of questioning all these things and more.
Adding all those issues up, and then layering a veneer of Christian respectability and platitudes that are supposed to deal with trauma...then what you end up with is a particularly American brand of evangelical Christianity that desperately needs to be deconstructed.
This week's episode of MindShift podcast features a discussion with "Seamus Clarke," who feels the need to use a pseudonym to protect both himself and his family. Why use a fake name?
This is actually quite a common theme--people raised in the evangelical or fundamentalist church feel that they cannot "be themselves" and tell their friends and family members still steeped in the church that they've gone down the road of deconstruction and discovery.
Seamus is in a similar position...but just because he uses a pseudonym doesn't stop us from having a deep and meaningful conversation about his childhood, experiences of trauma, and how the church badly failed him.
Today's episode features a discussion with Richard Jacobson, author of Unchurching: Christianity Without Churchianity."
Have you left the church behind? Perhaps you have, but still seek a sense of community. But if you've abandoned the "institutional church," yet still consider yourself a Christian who yearns for an authentic experience of church, where do you turn?
Listen in as Richard offers a biblical and theological deconstruction of the institutional church, and lays out his vision of what he believes the church should be all about.
In the second half of my conversation with David Madison, we finish up talking about biblical inerrancy and move on to two tough problems facing Christianity: the problem of evil and the atonement.
Theologians and scholars alike--both within Judaism and Christianity--have struggled to explain the problem of evil. Theodicy--a defense of a supposedly all-powerful, all-knowing and all-benevolent God--has long been a mainstay of both religions.
David and I tackle this as well as discussing related issues with God requiring a human sacrifice so that human beings could go to heaven. Couldn't the God, who makes all the rules, just forgive everybody without requiring Jesus to die?
If you are someone who identifies as a Christian, do you feel you have the freedom to question what you think you believe, and what you think you know?
Can you prove the existence of God and Jesus with 100% certainty? Is the Bible indeed inspired, inerrant (without error), infallible and totally trustworthy in everything it affirms?
If you are in the process of deconstructing your faith, or just want to challenge your belief system, then don't miss this thought-provoking conversation with David Madison, author of 10 Tough Problems in Christian Thought and Belief: A Minister Turned Atheist Shows Why You Should Ditch the Faith.
In this first half of 2 episodes, we discuss David's own faith journey from pastor to atheist, and challenge some of Christianity's sacred cows.
Don't miss this conversation!
MindShift podcast is back for 2018! Since I never did a pilot episode when I started the podcast nearly a year ago, it's time to do one now!
Originally called "The Preacher's Forum Podcast," a lot has changed over the last year. As I continue down the road on this journey of deconstruction, discovery and now reconstruction, will you join me in 2018?
In this episode, I lay out 2 helpful models for those who have left the church behind. Where are you on the spectrum? Find yourself along the scale! Also, I explore a helpful analogy of a "kernel and husk" that will help you to think critically about Christianity--as a religion.
In this final episode of MindShift for 2017, Ray Gilford and I finish our discussion we began last week on the subject of biblical inerrancy--the fundamentalist belief that "the Bible is 100% error-free"--inerrant.
In Part 2, Ray opens up about his own personal journey away from church. The idea of biblical absolutism--the teaching that the Bible is all that is necessary for faith and practice--permeates many a conservative evangelical church today. This, in part, has led Ray away from the mainstream church, and on a journey of deconstructing his own faith and belief systems.
Perhaps this describes your own personal journey away from mainstream churches. If so, then you won't want to miss Part 2!
MindShift will return in January 2018 so stay tuned for some outstanding interviews and conversations on a wide variety of topics related to God, the church, and spirituality.
Join me on the journey of deconstruction and discovery!
What does the word "inerrancy" even mean? And in what possible way could that term apply to the Bible?
Common among many Christians is the belief that not only is the Bible inspired (the human writers of Scripture were guided by the Holy Spirit), it is also inerrant (free from errors), infallible (completely trustworthy in all that it says), and on the basis of all of the above it is therefore authoritative in all matters of faith and belief.
But what is the legacy of this doctrine? Has the church always believed the Bible to be inerrant? And how does that teaching affect the average Christian today in terms of beliefs and behaviors?
In this episode, Ray Gilford and I discuss this issue and deconstruct it from both a scholarly and a practical point of view. Do not miss this edition of MindShift if you want to be challenged!
What would you do if you were told by your doctor: "You have cancer."
How would you react to such news? Many people all over the world have indeed heard that prognosis. For Jeff and Karin Green, those words completely rocked their world just 7 months ago when he was diagnosed with leukemia.
But rather than react out of despair or anger--completely understandable emotions--Jeff and his family have focused on finding the positive in the midst of this situation.
This special episode gives them a chance to share their experiences, how they are dealing with life, and how they are now beginning to help others in need.
This is an inspiring, heartwarming and amazing story!
Part 2 of my wide-ranging and though-prvoking conversation with Karen Garst, "The Faithless Feminist," continues in this episode.
For those undergoing a process of discovery and deconstruction of their inherited belief systems--particularly coming out of a fundamentalist or conservative religious framework--then this episode is a must-listen.
That process is fraught with emotional threats: fear, anxiety, and separation from loved ones. But it can also foster learning and new directions for life, previously unimagined.
Don't miss this one!
"Religion contributes to--or directly causes--gender inequity."
Particularly in the case of women, this statement is certainly true--both historically, and even now in terms of religions. Women have been marginalized, oppressed, shunned, vilified, and more by a variety of religions, and not just limited to Christianity.
In this episode, I engage in a wide-ranging interview with author, blogger, feminist and atheist Karen L. Garst, who wrote a fascinating work interviewing 22 women from a variety of Judeo-Christian religions who have left it all behind--and who are finding out what life can be like without religion.
What standard to you use to measure success?
In our money- and achievement-driven Western world, where success is measured in very quantifiable ways by our current society, this becomes a very important issue.
You could, for example, be considered a huge success if you're wealthy, have a large house, several (expensive) cars in the driveway, or have a high-powered job moving fast up the corporate ladder.
On the other hand, you could be considered a total failure—that is, if you're being judged by certain current cultural standards.
Shawn Manley and I revisit this point in more detail in the second half of our conversation, and relate the metrics for success into the realm of the church also.
Don't miss this conversation!
How do you measure success?
Depending upon the yardstick you use, the answer to that question can vary wildly. Pastors of churches, for example, can measure "success" by the number of members attending their church; how many are on church staff; or by the church's annual budget.
Others measure success by how much money they earn, or where they're at on the corporate ladder--which rung are you on?
"Success," however, is actually much more difficult to quantify than just by numbers alone. Measuring the metrics for success depends on which qualifiers you use to measure it.
In the first half of our conversation, Shawn and I discuss his experiences of being a church planter in Southern California, how that experience ended, and talk about our shared stories of church leadership. What constitutes "success," and how do you define it?
Find out in this episode!
What is the legacy of one, single sermon?
Even though Jonathan Edwards, the famous American theologian, preacher, missionary and pastor, is well-known in academic circles for his volumes of work, most people know him only from one sermon he preached in 1741: "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God."
But did toxic theology affect Edwards personally? It certainly had an impact both on his personal life, and this famous sermon also.
That this one sermon still resonates down through the centuries is testimony to not only its rhetorical power, but the after-effect on so many things: political and religious discourse, Calvinist theology as it developed in America, evangelism, missions, and revivals.
In this episode, I unpack the historical context of both the Puritans as well as Jonathan Edwards, the man. What led him to preach such a sermon, and what has been its legacy?
Find out in this episode!
What's it like to grow up in a strict Christian, fundamentalist home?
The effects of growing up being "sheltered from the evil world" can linger with people, long after they've grown up, left home, and are raising families of their own. Sometimes they never do get out, and are still within "the system."
My sister Valerie Cunningham and I got together and recorded this episode sharing our stories of growing up, and surviving, a fundamentalist Christian upbringing.
Valerie also shares her heartbreaking story of becoming pregnant at just 17, giving up her child for adoption, and dealing with the fallout of the many decisions that were made for her at the time.
If any of these issues relates to you, or describe your own journey, then you are not going to want to miss this podcast episode!
Did Jesus ever do, or say, anything wrong? This is the major question posed by Dr Hector Avalos in his book, The Bad Jesus: The Ethics of New Testament Ethics, and this forms the basis of the discussion in Part 2 of this episode.
Perhaps the real question is this: can such a question even be raised without offending large swathes of Christians worldwide? If Jesus was supra-human (both human and divine), as most Christians hold, then he lived a sinless life--and should be viewed as the paragon of virtue and as a substantive base for ethical behavior.
If, however, he was human, then surely he must have had flaws--as do we all. Can you question this? Don't miss this episode, as Dr Avalos and I explore these questions and more.
Are you prepared to deconstruct your faith, beliefs and presuppositions?
If so, then you won't want to miss this episode, as I talk with Dr Hector Avalos, professor of Religious Studies at Iowa State University. Dr Avalos is a "New Atheist"--one who isn't trying to disprove the existence of God, but rather seeks to warn people about the dangers inherent within religion--and religionism.
In this first episode, Dr Avalos discusses what it means to be a New Atheist, biblical literacy and society at large, and other topics that will challenge some of the things you think you believe and know about God and the Bible.
What kind of an impact can a single sermon have on the lives of people? Not much, or a great deal?
Historically, in 1095 AD Pope Urban II preached a sermon in Clermont, France, that launched the bloodshed of the Crusades to the Holy Land. Not only were hideous atrocities committed, the legacy of that sermon resonates down through the centuries. Even today, Christians, Jews and Muslims alike are still living in the shadow of the actions caused by--one sermon.
In the second half of "Preaching with a Bias," Gary and I examine in more detail the sociological impact of sermons on the lives of ordinary churchgoers, and how the use--or abuse--of Scripture can lead to a lot of toxic theology that does incredible damage in the lives of people.
We'll also take a look at the legacy of fundamentalist preaching and interpretation of the Bible, and how certain theological and interpretative commitments work themselves out in the real world.
What effect does listening to years of sermons have on a person's psyche, behavior, and mental health?
In this episode of the newly-named "MindShift" podcast (formerly "The Preacher's Forum podcast"), Gary Hayes and I tackle the subject of preaching, and its effects on people.
If you're a preacher, then you will benefit from this episode! Question your biases, presuppositions and hermeneutical commitments.
If you are a listener of sermons in churches, then you will also benefit from this episode! Deconstruct your beliefs in God, the Bible, and what you hear regularly from the pulpit.
Overheard in church: "God doesn't have emotions...and neither should you!" What constitutes a good Christian, anyway? Someone who is spiritually mature, is the common answer. But what if that person is emotionally immature? What then?
This is precisely what I and Marc Alan Schelske, author of The Wisdom of Your Heart: Discovering the God-Given Purpose and Power of Your Emotions, discuss in this episode.
Should you trust your emotions, or ignore them? Treat them as fickle and frivolous? The fact is, though, that most of us are not truly in touch with our emotions. We've come to exalt human reason over emotions, but the fact is that without emotions, reason is crippled.
Don't miss this thought-provoking and challenging episode!
Reflect on the irony of the statement, "Leaving the church...to find God." And what is the church, after all, but a collection of individuals striving to do just that--find God? To find themselves, to discover their own humanity?
It's hard to separate out, however, the oftentimes sordid history of the church in the past, and also what it has become today. In the midst of the formulaic religion, the rote performances, and the whole affair of "going through the motions," God can get lost in the mix.
Therefore you may find yourself contemplating the radical--and ironic--notion of "leaving the church...to find God." He's not in the black-and-white, bullet-point doctrinal statements or theological tomes; he's not even to be found in the pages of Scripture. He's a real, living person, with whom we can actually have a relationship. But sadly, so many people have to leave the church...to find him.
Join Gary and I for the second half of this thought-provoking and challenging episode!
Why would anyone even contemplate the idea of leaving the church in order to find God? Surely the church is where one goes to...find God, right?
But the truth is that for many, God can easily get lost in the midst of all of the rituals and traditions, formulaic worship, toxic or just bad theology, and rote practices. Besides, isn't God everywhere? He doesn't actually dwell in a building made by human hands.
So for some, it may well be that in the journey to "find God," that they may well have to leave the church in order to do just that. Perhaps new forms of thinking, new experiences and freedom, are to be found outside the walls of a local church.
If that sounds intriguing to you, then join Gary and I for the first half of this thought-provoking conversation. You may well start your journey to find God...as you leave the church behind.
"You can't be a Christian...and crazy!" says Steve Austin of the CXMH podcast and the iamsteveaustin.net website. He's my guest on this latest episode of the MindShift podcast series.
There is unfortunately a stigma attached to mental health and the church. Throw in some questionable--or downright bad theology--like "the magic Jesus pill" (say a prayer and you're all better), and you've got a toxic mix that is destined for causing a lot of damage.
Steve and I have a great discussion about these issues and more. Don't miss this episode, where he shares his near-successful suicide attempt, his recovery and efforts to help others on the road to health, healing and wholeness.
Are you a survivor of childhood sexual abuse? Were you sexually abused as a teenager, or even as an adult? Perhaps the abuse is even now ongoing and you feel powerless to stop it.
In the UK alone, according to a 2000 study by the NSPCC, one in 6 children will experience some form of sexual abuse by the age of 16. 8 out of 10 children abused know their abuser. In the USA, a person is sexually assaulted every 98 seconds.
Many abusers are family members, friends, or people in positions of trust; many are well-known and respected by the victims' family.
Jean Dobson courageously speaks out abuse her multiple experiences of sexual abuse, beginning from when she was a young girl and continuing through her early adult years.
Rather than being stigmatized by it, she has found healing, hope and restoration--but it certainly has not been an easy journey. She's now in a place where she can help other sexual abuse victims.
Don't miss this episode--this is a powerful and compelling story that needs to be experienced.
"Everything rises and falls on leadership" (John Maxwell).
If you're a leader, or a member of a leadership team, how would you even know if the culture of your team is dysfunctional or unhealthy?
For that matter, what are the qualities that make up a good and effective leader?
In this second episode on the subject of leadership, I'll help you to begin to turn the negatives into positives. Beyond merely identifying what areas might be going wrong with your leadership team, in this episode we'll explore how to turn the "5 Dysfunctions of a Team" into the "5 Functions of a Team."
Beyond the team, the episode will conclude by offering helpful advice regarding your own personal development as a leader...humility and credibility are critically important!
Exactly how important is the culture of an organization? What role does leadership play in shaping and building the culture? How does culture fit into mission, vision and values?
If you're involved in leadership on any level--be it a business, a church or any other organization--then this episode is for you. Whether you're a leader of a team, or a member of a leadership team, then join me for the first half of two episodes I'm doing on exploring the concept of "The 5 Dysfunctions of a Team."
Based on the book of the same name, written by leadership guru Patrick Lencioni, I'll unpack and explore some of the major dysfunctions that affect leadership teams, and ultimately the organization itself.
In next week's episode, I'll turn the negatives into positives, and explore "The 5 Functions of a Team." Don't miss this incredibly helpful series!
Why did one fish turn to the other at fish church on a Sunday and say: "I'm sure glad the ocean turned up today." What does that have to do with our views of God?
Explore the subject of theoclasm with us: It has to do with challenging, deconstructing, and possibly even tearing down our received, inherited views of God. How do you see God? As an angry father? Or is he disappointed with your lack of effort and behavior?
Possibly you don't believe in God...or perhaps your views are in the process of changing and evolving. In this conversation with Gary Hayes, we delve into the subject of God, and challenge some of the more traditional and received views of the Almighty.
Don't miss this conversation--you'll be glad you investigated this subject with us!
What does it take to have a MindShift and move from being a negative, cynical person to a person of positivity?
This involves far more than just "putting on a happy face" and pretending that everything is fine. It's a MindShift...a complete transformation of your mental awareness and thought-processes, which is extremely difficult.
Lisa and I talk about how hard it is to become a "person of positivity." This means on the one hand, not living in denial; on the other hand, avoiding over-spiritualizing your life. At times, it may involve even removing extremely negative people from your life.
Will your circumstances change? Most likely, no. But the way you perceive them will change. It's not necessarily what happens to us that ultimately matters; it's how we respond to it that makes all the difference.
In the second half of my conversation with Bishop Mike Royal, the conversation pursues the question: "Is the church relevant today?" We explore this question from the point of view of the election and presidency of Donald Trump; the recent Grenfell Tower fire; and speaking out as a Christian, confronting the injustices and inequalities in society.
Bishop Mike Royal is a committed social activist, a passionate black theologian, biblical scholar, health worker and leader of a Pentecostal church in Birmingham, England.
You won't want to miss this episode--speaking truth to power and seeking to make the church relevant in our society today.
Much of current theology and biblical studies, despite the multi-global and multi-ethnic makeup of our society and churches today, still tends to be predominantly white, Euro-centric, male and Protestant.
In this landmark show--number 30 on The Preacher's Forum podcast--I'm excited to bring you the first half of my conversation with Bishop Mike Royal, recorded recently in Birmingham, UK.
Bishop Royal represents a black, British, African theological and biblical point of view, which is sorely needed today.
What Bishop Royal brings to the table, then, is a new and fresh perspective on the Bible, the relevance of the church today, Jesus and his subversive message, and social activism. This is an interview you don't want to miss!
In the second half of my conversation with Mike Nimz of the Anabaptist Network UK, Mike shares his difficult experience as the pastor of a Mennonite church in Canada.
If you're a pastor or church leader, then you need to listen in to his story! This is helpful because now, more than 3 years after burning out in ministry, Mike is able to reflect critically on his experiences.
We also talk about preaching, Pauline theology, mission, and attending the Pride Parade in Birmingham from a perspective of theological reflection. Don't miss this episode!
What exactly is an Anabaptist, or a Mennonite? What's the relationship between those two traditions? Do you have to become an Amish person in order to join such a church?
Mike Nimz and his wife Cheryl are part of the Anabaptist Network in the United Kingdom. Originally from the US and Canada, they now live in Birmingham, England, and are devoted to promoting the Anabaptist and Mennonite core values all over the country.
In this first half of our conversation, Mike and I discuss Anabaptist history, unique core values, and how that relates to the concept of mission for Christians today, in light of those values.
Does a person have to believe a set of theological doctrines in order to belong to a church? Or is it more of a priority for someone to belong first, and worry about beliefs later? Most churches and leaders would say that belief comes before belonging.
And beyond that, what is the purpose of the church? Is it about attracting people into a building, or is about going out into the community? How do you "think strategically" and maximize your efforts, and those of your people, if you're a church leader or pastor?
In this second half of the conversation with Dr Ash Barker, we explore further the concept of "incarnational living in the neighbourhood." What does that mean, how do you go about it, and what does it look like?
Dr Ash Barker and I explore this in more detail, and he explains more of his philosophy of ministry and mission and incarnational living: "Discipleship is a by-product of the love we have for people."
This episode is Part 1 of an amazing conversation I had in Birmingham, England, with Dr Ash Barker. He is an "immersed urban Christian activist", originally born in Australia, now living in Birmingham. Prior to moving to the UK, he and his family spent 12 years living in one of Bangkok's poorest slums.
Ash is the author of 3 books, which discuss their experiences in Bangkok, and reflect on the realities of urban theology and mission in our current multi-cultural, increasingly ethnically-diverse, and globalized world of today.
Ash has an amazing story to tell, and in this episode we talk about God, mission, theology, the church, and so much more. Be sure and listen in--you won't want to miss this episode, or Part 2 next time!
If you are a Christian, and attend church regularly (or even semi-regularly), why do you go? What is the purpose of church, anyway? Does church exist to serve the people that attend, or do the people serve the church--and maybe get to be involved in some ministry on the side?
If these questions resonate with you, then be sure and listen in to the second half of my conversation with Ryan Warren. We get into these topics and more in this episode of the "British Accents" series on The Preacher's Forum Podcast.
How do you understand your own identity? Is it from your accomplishments in life, and the the skills and abilities you have? And where do you gain a sense of value? Is that found in what you do--or who you are? Do you judge people on their appearance and belief systems? Or can you learn to "see beyond the veil of humanity?"
In this and the next episode of my podcast series "British Accents," I'm bringing you the first half of a great conversation I had recently with a good friend: Ryan Warren. The founder of the DadsApp resource for dads who want to be better fathers to their children, Ryan is a person who is above all else a servant who not only cares deeply for people, he seeks to serve them in a wide variety of ways.
These are some of the topics we get into in this first half. Be sure and tune in next Friday for Part 2, where we discuss things like Ryan's experiences of church, God, and spirituality.
"If I go down a blind alley, it's only because I went there looking for more of God. If I don't find him, I'll come back out and keep going!" Wise words from Mr Gary Hayes, describing what it means to have a "theoclasm." Listen in to Part 2 of our conversation, where Gary describes his transition out of a cult-like fundamentalist church experience in London--where he was one of the leaders, no less--and into new and challenging understandings of God, theology, and Christianity.
"I'd rather that an unsafe building be torn down, and rebuilt, than carry on living in it--just because I don't want change." Wise words from Gary Hayes, this week's "British Accents" episode on The Preacher's Forum podcast! What's a "theoclasm"? Have you had a "theoclastic experience" yourself? And what does all this have to do with the teachings of Father Richard Rohr?
If you don't know what those terms mean, or what the connection with Rohr might be about, then please listen in for Part 1 of my conversation. It was recorded live from the Root Coffee Shop in downtown Liverpool, England, with Gary Hayes, a teaching colleague and friend.
What happens when you begin to "run out of road" on the spiritual path you're on? When the faith you were brought up to believe in no longer works for you? Listen in to find out what happened to Keith Rycroft, who transitioned from a fundamentalist upbringing and now is a Quaker....who doesn't believe in God?!
What in the world is a "non-theistic Quaker"? What happens when you begin "to run out of road" on the path you're on in life? I'll let my friend, Keith Rycroft, begin to explain in this first half of my conversation with him. In this episode, we explore some of the history of the Quaker movement, which began in England in the 17th century amidst a time of religious, political and economic upheaval following the English Civil War. Keith then begins to talk about his own faith journey, and how he began to explore alternatives to his fundamentalist upbringing.
Are you a spiritual misfit? Don't fit into the mainstream church? Don't want to have anything to do with organized religion? Then this conversation is designed for you. How do you stay true to who you are, yet at the same time continue to grow and explore the path to spirituality and personal wholeness? Join us for this interview, and along the journey also.
"Nurture the good that's already within you...and show people God's love that way." Sage advice from rough and tough Scouser (someone from Liverpool!) Jamie Edwards. Listen in to hear the second half of our discussion about God, spirituality, "the church of the homeless," and much more.
I'm excited to bring you this first edition of a brand-new series of podcasts I'm launching called "British Accents." It's my chance, as an American living in the UK for nearly 12 years, to interview and converse with British men and women about their faith journeys, spirituality, God, experiences with church, and so much more.
Join me on this journey...this episode is the first half of an interview I did with my good friend, Jamie Edwards, of Chester, England. He doesn't pull any punches, but tells it like it is...enjoy.
This podcast is something very, very special. My wife, Lisa Heacock, shares her story of when she had an abortion at age 17. Attending a Christian high school at the time only made things worse...find out what happened, and also how she was able to discover wholeness, healing, forgiveness, restoration and recovery on her journey.
This is an open, honest, and inspirational story that will affect you on many levels.
To be clear: this episode is notabout arguing the politics or ethics of abortion.
Without denying the events of the past, we want to celebrate recovery and healing. This is a hugely important issue that needs to be discussed openly and honestly, and this is exactly what you'll hear in this podcast.
Abortion (and miscarriages too) affect not just the woman involved, but the father of the baby just as much.
This story is for everybody. It's heartbreaking, yet heartwarming at the same time.
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After doing what we thought was the final episode of my Rock n' Roll Soul series of podcasts, my wife and I discovered that one more session was needed. In this show, we discuss our journey in moving to the United Kingdom 11 years ago, and what factors led us to the decision to walk away from the organized, mainstream church.
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This is the final episode of my "Rock n' Roll Soul" podcast series. For this concluding episode, which is the story of my last 18 months in full-time church ministry, I bring in a special guest--my wife, Lisa, to share her point of view on the whole experience.
In this episode, I start planning my move out of full-time ministry and out of the church. I pitch my proposal for an exit strategy, but will it work? Tune in to hear Part 9 of my story of when I was in full-time church ministry.
This show tells the story of how, after I hit rock bottom in church leadership, I begin to see a way forward. But would I be able to pull it off? Listen in to find out what happened next in this ongoing story of my struggles in church ministry.
Heard a few sermons in your lifetime? Some good, others not so good? In this podcast I'll help you to become...a better listener of sermons. I unpack the process of what preachers generally go through to prepare and preach sermons. This will help to educate and help you to become a critically-involved, empowered listener. Preachers will benefit from this podcast also!
In this show, part 6 of my "Rock n' Roll Soul" podcast series, I continue the story of my experiences of nearly 12 years in ministry. This episode picks up the story of my life-changing encounter at the Willow Creek Leadership Summit, and how that completely transformed my approaches to church leadership and people management.
A potentially disturbing trend threatens the church: Christians leaving organized churches, but not abandoning their faith in God. What is behind this trend? Tune into this Preacher's Forum podcast to find out.
Part 5 of my current podcast series picks up the story of my life and experiences in full-time pastoral ministry. In danger of total burnout, I look desperately for solutions to help both me, and the church I was leading, move forward.
Taking a break from my "Rock n' Roll Soul" series, let's have a bit of a laugh, while at the same time pondering what it is that people experience when they decide to visit church for the first time. In his own words, find out what happens when Mr Smith Goes to Church.
This latest installment of my podcast series picks up the story of my experiences in full-time ministry as a newly-installed elder of a church. Listen in to hear what happened next...reflections on the Christian life, the trials of ministry, and how all of those experiences changed what I believe about God and theology.
Here is the second installment of my "Rock n' Roll Soul" podcast series. This set of podcasts is my chance to share with you a bit more about me, and about how my life and ministry have evolved over the decades. Plus, my views on what constitutes Christianity, life, and what we believe about God have radically changed also. If it sounds interesting, to you, then please listen in...