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Summary: What makes people want to follow a leader? In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Crestcom Business Owner John Lentini introduces his Six-Dial Framework for character-driven leadership. Learn how discipline, mindset, resilience, integrity, empathy, and influence work together to help leaders build trust, inspire others, and lead with greater confidence.

Leadership isn’t defined by a title. It’s defined by character.

The most effective leaders don’t earn trust because of their position. They earn it through the decisions they make, the values they demonstrate, and the consistency they show every day. That’s the foundation of character-driven leadership.

In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with John Lentini, President of Bold Training Corp. and a licensed Crestcom Business Owner serving organizations throughout New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Delaware. John is also a TEDx speaker with more than 235,000 views on his TEDx talk, where he first shared his practical framework behind his upcoming book, Engineering Character: Six Dials to Build Better Leaders, and explains why becoming a better leader starts with becoming a better version of yourself.

Meet John LentiniJohn Lentini knows that great leadership isn’t about having all the answers. It’s about continually developing the character and habits that earn trust. As President of Bold Training Corp. and a Crestcom Business Owner, John draws on more than two decades of executive leadership experience to help leaders become more resilient, influential, and effective. His perspective is shaped by leading global teams through 9/11, the Fukushima nuclear disaster, and choosing to start a business during the COVID-19 pandemic.

What Is Character-Driven Leadership?Character-driven leadership is the intentional practice of developing the habits, values, and behaviors that inspire others to trust and follow you.

Rather than focusing solely on technical skills or authority, character-driven leaders cultivate self-awareness, resilience, integrity, empathy, and influence. These qualities allow them to navigate uncertainty, build stronger relationships, and create lasting impact.

As John explains:

“You must learn to lead yourself effectively before you can really lead others well.”

That simple idea forms the foundation of his Six-Dial Framework.

Great Leadership Starts with Leading YourselfAccording to John, every leader must first master three personal leadership habits:

• Discipline
• Mindset
• Resilience

These three “dials” represent the internal habits that determine how consistently leaders perform, especially during difficult times.

Discipline is often the least glamorous but most essential.

“It is the boring, tedious, mundane stuff that we would all love to avoid… But when you start to appreciate the medium-term rewards that can be gained through regular discipline, you’re going to see a difference.”

Mindset is the unwavering belief that your vision is achievable, even when progress feels slow. Resilience allows leaders to adapt, recover, and continue moving forward, whether that means persevering through challenges or changing course entirely.

Together, these qualities create what John calls a determined leader.

Character Is Built Through Integrity, Empathy, and InfluenceOnce leaders learn to lead themselves, they can begin leading others more effectively.

John’s second set of leadership dials focuses on:

• Integrity
• Empathy
• Influence

Together, these create the trust every high-performing team depends on.

One of the episode’s most memorable insights is John’s definition of integrity:

“If discipline is consistency in your activity, then integrity is consistency in your values.”

Character-driven leadership requires leaders to consistently act according to their values, even when it’s difficult. When actions align with words, trust grows. When they don’t, credibility quickly disappears.

Why Empathy Is a Leadership StrengthEmpathy is often misunderstood as being too soft or avoiding difficult conversations.

John challenges that misconception.

“Empathy is understanding what someone wants, but not necessarily catering or executing on it.”

Character-driven leaders don’t avoid accountability. Instead, they make difficult decisions with compassion, communicate openly, and consider how those decisions affect others.

That combination of empathy and accountability builds stronger relationships and healthier workplace cultures.

Character Requires Continuous ReflectionOne of the most practical aspects of John’s framework is that it encourages leaders to assess themselves regularly.

Rather than assuming growth happens automatically, character-driven leaders intentionally reflect on where they need to improve and actively seek feedback from others.

John recommends using tools such as 360-degree feedback or anonymous surveys to better understand how others experience your leadership.

As he reminds listeners:

“Always focus on where you are at the moment and why it’s changed… understanding we’re never done. It’s just the journey.”

Leadership isn’t about reaching perfection. It’s about continually becoming a better leader.

The Future of Leadership Is Character-DrivenToday’s leaders face constant change, increasing complexity, and growing expectations from their teams. Technical expertise alone is no longer enough.

Character-driven leadership provides a framework for earning trust, navigating uncertainty, and helping others succeed.

John’s Six-Dial Framework reminds us that leadership begins within. By intentionally developing discipline, mindset, resilience, integrity, empathy, and influence, leaders create the kind of character that inspires others to follow.

Listen to the Full EpisodeWant to learn more about John’s Six-Dial Framework and discover practical ways to strengthen your own leadership character?

Listen to the full episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast featuring Crestcom Business Owner John Lentini for actionable insights you can begin applying today.

Ready to Build Character-Driven Leaders?Strong organizations are built by leaders who inspire trust, communicate with integrity, and lead with purpose. Crestcom’s leadership development programs help leaders build these essential skills through practical learning, coaching, and real-world application.

Request a complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop to experience Crestcom’s approach firsthand. In this interactive session, your team will explore practical leadership strategies that improve communication, strengthen accountability, and develop the habits that drive long-term success.

The post Why Character-Driven Leadership Matters More Than Ever with John Lentini appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Summer Leadership Rewind: Staying “Forever Human” in the Age of AI with Sylvie di GiustoArtificial intelligence has changed dramatically over the past year. New tools arrive almost weekly. Organizations are experimenting faster than ever. And leaders everywhere are asking the same question:

How do you embrace AI without losing what makes great leadership human?

This week, we’re taking a summer break, so we’re revisiting one of our most impactful conversations on The Leadership Habit Podcast. Jenn DeWall sits down with leadership expert and Crestcom faculty member Sylvie di Giusto to explore why the leaders who thrive in the age of AI won’t be the ones who know the most about technology. They’ll be the ones who remain unmistakably human.

If you missed this episode the first time, or if your relationship with AI has changed since then, now is the perfect time to listen again.

Meet Sylvie di GiustoSylvie di Giusto is an international keynote speaker, author, Certified Speaking Professional (CSP), and Hall of Fame speaker who helps organizations improve leadership, influence, and communication. For years, her expertise has been part of Crestcom’s leadership curriculum, helping leaders around the world strengthen emotional intelligence, executive presence, and decision-making.

In this conversation, she offers a refreshing perspective on AI that replaces fear with curiosity and competition with collaboration.

The Best Leaders Won’t Compete with AIMany professionals still think of AI as something they have to outwork or outperform.

Sylvie challenges that mindset.

“The goal was never to beat the machine. It is to build with it.”

AI will always process information faster, remember more data, and complete repetitive tasks more efficiently than people. Rather than trying to compete in those areas, leaders should focus on the capabilities that technology cannot replicate.

Judgment. Empathy. Trust. Context. Ethics.

These are the qualities that separate management from leadership—and they become even more valuable as AI becomes more capable.

Why Being “Forever Human” Matters More Than EverAs AI-generated content becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish from human-created work, authenticity becomes a competitive advantage.

People don’t simply want information. They want confidence that someone understands their challenges, considers context, and genuinely cares about the outcome.

That’s why Sylvie believes leaders should intentionally cultivate the uniquely human skills AI cannot replace.

She explains that while AI can generate answers, leaders ask better questions. AI can analyze information, but leaders interpret meaning. AI can suggest actions, but only people can weigh ethics, relationships, and long-term consequences.

In other words, AI can assist leadership, but it cannot replace it.

Soft Skills Are Becoming Power SkillsFor years, organizations emphasized technical expertise and productivity. Ironically, AI is now making those skills easier to automate.

The result?

Communication, emotional intelligence, adaptability, critical thinking, and relationship-building have become even more valuable.

As Sylvie notes:

“There will be a big comeback for soft skills because those are the skills that AI cannot replicate.”

Organizations investing in leadership development today aren’t preparing people for yesterday’s workplace. They’re building the capabilities that will matter most tomorrow.

Leadership Still Means AccountabilityOne of the episode’s most powerful reminders is that AI cannot own the consequences of a decision.

Leaders still carry that responsibility.

AI can recommend hiring decisions, summarize employee performance, or suggest business strategies. But it cannot understand every human circumstance, organizational nuance, or ethical consideration.

As Sylvie points out, leaders cannot blame technology for decisions they choose to make.

Accountability remains a human responsibility.

A Conversation That’s Even More Relevant TodayWhen this episode originally aired, many organizations were just beginning to explore generative AI.

Today, AI has become part of everyday work.

That makes this conversation even more valuable.

Rather than focusing on specific tools or trends that quickly become outdated, Sylvie shares timeless leadership principles that help leaders navigate any technological change. Her message isn’t about resisting AI or blindly embracing it. It’s about learning how to use it wisely while protecting the qualities that make leadership meaningful.

Key TakeawaysIf there’s one message to carry forward from this Summer Leadership Rewind, it’s this:

AI will continue to evolve.

Great leadership will continue to depend on people.

The leaders who succeed won’t be those who simply adopt the newest technology. They’ll be the ones who combine technology with empathy, sound judgment, authentic communication, creativity, and accountability.

Or, as Sylvie says best:

“Don’t compete with AI. Focus on what you do in the moments that matter most as a human being.”

Listen to the EpisodeCatch this Summer Leadership Rewind episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast with Sylvie di Giusto and discover why staying “Forever Human” may be the most important leadership strategy of the AI era.

Where to Find More from Sylvie di GiustoTo learn more from Sylvie:

• • Visit sylviedigiusto.com
  • Connect with her on LinkedIn
  • Buy her books

Develop the Human Skills That Matter MostTechnology will keep changing, but leadership fundamentals endure. Developing stronger communication, critical thinking, emotional intelligence, and decision-making skills helps leaders succeed regardless of what’s next.

To learn how Crestcom helps organizations build these essential leadership capabilities, request a complimentary two-hour leadership workshop at crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

The post Summer Leadership Rewind: Staying “Forever Human” in the Age of AI with Sylvie di Giusto appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Effective leadership communication isn’t just about delivering information. It’s about creating connection, inspiring action, and ensuring people remember what matters long after the conversation ends.

On the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall speaks with communications expert Andy Freed. Andy shares his insights from an unexpected source of leadership inspiration: Bruce Springsteen.

Andy draws from more than 95 Springsteen concerts and decades of leadership experience. Through this lens, he shares how great leaders can communicate with greater purpose, prepare more intentionally, and create lasting impact through every interaction.

Meet Andy Freed, Author and Chairman of Virtual Inc.Andy Freed is Chairman of Virtual Inc., where he has spent more than three decades helping organizations navigate growth, change, and strategic communication. Throughout his career, he has worked with global organizations like Microsoft, Google, and Meta. He also helps leaders become more intentional communicators.

His newest book, How to Lead Like a Boss, explores leadership communication in an unconventional way. It looks at the habits and behaviors that made Bruce Springsteen a respected performer and leader.

While the setting may be a concert stage rather than a boardroom, the leadership lessons translate directly to today’s workplace.

Great Leadership Communication Starts with IntentionOne of Andy’s most important messages is that effective communication begins long before a meeting starts.

Rather than simply creating slides or gathering updates, leaders should first ask themselves three questions:

• What do I want people to think?
• How do I want them to feel?
• What do I want them to do?

This simple framework shifts communication from information sharing to intentional leadership.

Whether you’re announcing organizational change, leading a team meeting, or having a one-on-one conversation, understanding the desired outcome before speaking dramatically improves clarity and impact.

Preparation Is a Leadership SkillBruce Springsteen doesn’t walk onto the stage and hope for the best.

Before every concert, he carefully builds a set list that creates an emotional journey for the audience. Every song has a purpose. Every transition is intentional.

Leaders should prepare the same way.

Instead of opening yesterday’s PowerPoint presentation and making minor edits, Andy encourages leaders to think first about the experience they want their audience to have.

Preparation isn’t about creating more slides. It’s about creating a message people will remember.

If They Can’t Repeat the Message, It Didn’t LandOne of the most memorable ideas from the conversation is that communication isn’t measured by how many times you’ve delivered a message.

It’s measured by whether your audience can repeat it back to you.

Leaders often become frustrated after explaining something once or twice, assuming everyone understands. In reality, people frequently need to hear important messages multiple times before they truly retain them.

Instead of asking, “How many times have I said this?” leaders should ask:

“Can my team say it back to me?”

That shift in perspective can transform the way leaders communicate organizational priorities, strategic initiatives, and change.

Leadership Is Always a PerformanceLeadership doesn’t end when the presentation is over.

Andy explains that leaders are constantly communicating through their behavior, energy, and presence, even when they aren’t speaking.

Employees notice whether leaders are engaged during meetings. They notice body language, enthusiasm, and consistency. Your energy sets the tone for everyone around you.

The most effective leaders recognize that every interaction communicates something, whether intentional or not.

Never Underestimate the Power of AppreciationAt the end of every Bruce Springsteen concert, he personally thanks each member of the E Street Band before leaving the stage.

For just a few seconds, every musician receives their full attention and appreciation. That simple ritual offers an important reminder for leaders. Recognition doesn’t have to be elaborate to be meaningful.

Consistently acknowledging effort, celebrating contributions, and expressing genuine appreciation helps people feel valued. Those small moments often leave a lasting impression.

As Andy notes, one of our deepest human needs is simply to feel appreciated.

Leadership Communication Creates Lasting InfluenceStrong leadership communication isn’t about being the loudest voice in the room.

It’s about preparing with intention, connecting with people, reinforcing important messages, and creating experiences employees remember.

Whether you’re leading organizational change, facilitating a meeting, or simply thanking someone for their contribution, every interaction shapes trust and influence.

The best communicators understand that leadership isn’t measured by what they say.

It’s measured by what others hear, remember, and ultimately do.

Where to Find More From Andy FreedTo learn more about Andy Freed, his leadership philosophy, and his book How to Lead Like a Boss, visit andyfreed.com. There you’ll find additional resources on leadership communication, speaking, and practical strategies for becoming a more intentional leader.

Develop Leadership Communication Skills with CrestcomLeadership communication is one of the most important skills leaders can develop, yet it’s also one of the most challenging to master. From communicating change to building trust and influencing performance, effective communication shapes every aspect of leadership.

At Crestcom, communication isn’t treated as a standalone topic. It’s integrated throughout our leadership development programs, providing leaders with practical tools they can apply immediately in conversations, meetings, coaching sessions, and organizational change initiatives.

Listen to the full episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast for even more insights from Andy Freed, and discover how intentional communication can strengthen your leadership influence every day.

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Authentic leadership is about leading from your strengths rather than changing who you are to meet others’ expectations. In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, executive coach Dale Wilsher explains the leadership double bind, explores how workplace bias shapes perceptions of leadership, and shares practical strategies for balancing warmth and competence to build greater influence, executive presence, and leadership effectiveness.

Many leaders spend years trying to become the person they believe they need to be in order to succeed.

They speak differently, hold back ideas, soften their opinions, or adopt leadership styles that feel unnatural. Often, these changes stem from feedback, workplace expectations, or assumptions about what leadership should look like.

The challenge is that when leaders focus too heavily on fitting a mold, they can lose sight of the qualities that make them effective in the first place.

In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Dale Wilsher to discuss authentic leadership, executive presence, workplace bias, and the “leadership double bind”. Their conversation offers valuable insights for leaders who want to increase their influence without sacrificing who they are.

Meet Dale Wilsher, Executive Life and Leadership CoachDale Wilsher is an executive life and leadership coach, keynote speaker, and founder of Your Authentic Personality. For more than a decade, she has helped professionals better understand themselves, build confidence, and lead with greater authenticity. She is also the author of an award-winning book on personality and human potential and is currently writing a new book focused on identity, self-awareness, and leadership. Through coaching, speaking, and leadership development programs, Wilsher helps individuals align who they are with how they lead so they can maximize their potential without compromising their authentic strengths.

What Is the Leadership Double Bind?One of the central topics discussed in the episode is the leadership double bind.

The double bind refers to a no-win situation in which leaders face competing expectations. Wilsher explains that women, in particular, often experience a tension between being perceived as competent and as likable. Leaders may be viewed as too soft or too tough, too collaborative or too direct, but rarely “just right.”

While the double bind is most commonly discussed in the context of women in leadership, the broader lesson applies to leaders of all backgrounds. Many professionals feel pressure to suppress parts of their personality in order to align with traditional expectations of leadership.

According to research discussed during the episode, the most influential leaders demonstrate both warmth and strength. In other words, people must be able to answer “yes” to two critical questions:

• Do you care about me?
• Can you deliver results?

Leaders who consistently communicate both are often viewed as more effective, trustworthy, and influential.

Why Authentic Leadership MattersA powerful theme throughout the conversation is that authentic leadership is not about becoming someone else.

Too often, leaders receive feedback focused on their personality rather than their performance. Wilsher notes that this type of feedback can cause people to question who they are instead of helping them improve what they do. As a result, many leaders begin to modify or hide their natural tendencies in an effort to meet expectations.

The problem is that authentic strengths and perceived weaknesses are often connected.

A leader who is highly direct may also be exceptionally decisive. A leader who is highly relational may also excel at collaboration and inclusion. When leaders try to eliminate traits that others criticize, they often diminish the strengths associated with those traits as well.

Authentic leadership starts with understanding your natural tendencies and learning how to expand your effectiveness without abandoning your strengths.

Stop Subtracting YourselfPerhaps the most memorable lesson from the episode is Wilsher’s advice to leaders:

Don’t subtract yourself.

When leaders receive critical feedback, their instinct is often to become less visible, less outspoken, or less themselves. They begin removing parts of their personality to avoid criticism.

Wilsher encourages leaders to take a different approach.

Instead of subtracting, add.

Rather than suppressing your strengths, identify complementary behaviors that help others experience your leadership more effectively.

A direct leader may need to add empathy.

A highly collaborative leader may need to add decisiveness.

A relationship-focused leader may need to communicate recommendations with greater confidence.

The goal is not to become a different person. The goal is to become a more complete leader.

Balancing Warmth and CompetenceThe discussion also offers practical strategies for strengthening leadership presence.

Leaders who naturally prioritize relationships can benefit from demonstrating greater confidence and authority through concise communication, clear recommendations, and stronger ownership of accomplishments. Small changes in language can significantly influence how others perceive leadership presence.

One of Wilsher’s most practical pieces of advice focuses on how leaders communicate expertise and confidence. Many professionals unintentionally weaken their authority by using minimizing language such as “Does that make sense?” or by downplaying their recommendations. Instead, leaders can communicate with greater confidence while remaining approachable.

As Wilsher explains:

“There are stronger ways to check in with people than giving away too much of your authority or power when you lead with data; I say you can speak softly as long as you carry a big statistic.”

The lesson is simple but powerful: leadership presence does not require being the loudest person in the room. Leaders can build influence by supporting their recommendations with facts, evidence, and clear reasoning, and by communicating with confidence and clarity.

Meanwhile, leaders who naturally prioritize tasks and results can strengthen their influence by intentionally demonstrating warmth. Inviting collaboration, expressing gratitude, seeking input, and communicating care for others can help build trust and engagement without sacrificing accountability.

Neither approach is inherently better.

The most effective leaders understand their natural strengths and intentionally develop complementary skills that help them connect with a broader range of people and situations.

Authentic Leadership Strengthens TeamsAuthentic leadership benefits more than the individual leader.

Organizations perform best when they embrace diverse leadership styles rather than expecting everyone to lead the same way. Teams gain stronger perspectives, greater innovation, and better decision-making when leaders bring different strengths to the table.

As Wilsher points out, individuals should not be expected to be all things to all people. That is the role of the team. When leaders understand and value different leadership styles, they create environments where people can contribute their unique strengths while still working toward shared goals.

The result is a more engaged, adaptable, and high-performing organization.

Where to Find More From Dale WilsherTo learn more about Dale Wilsher’s work on authentic leadership, personality, executive presence, and leadership development, visit her website, YourAuthenticPersonality.com. You can also connect with Dale on LinkedIn, where she regularly shares insights on self-awareness, confidence, and helping leaders align who they are with how they lead. Her coaching, speaking engagements, and leadership programs provide practical tools for professionals who want to maximize their influence without sacrificing authenticity.

Authentic Leadership Is About Expansion, Not ReinventionLeadership is not about fitting someone else’s definition of success.

It is about understanding your strengths, recognizing your blind spots, and developing the skills needed to lead more effectively. The strongest leaders do not succeed because they have eliminated every weakness. They succeed because they have learned how to build on their strengths while adding the capabilities needed to connect with others.

Dale Wilsher’s message is a powerful reminder that effective leadership is not about shrinking yourself to meet someone else’s expectations. It’s about becoming more intentional, more self-aware, and more capable while remaining true to who you are.

At Crestcom, we believe leadership development should help leaders become more effective versions of themselves—not force them into a one-size-fits-all leadership model. Through live-facilitated learning, coaching, accountability, and real-world application, Crestcom helps leaders develop the self-awareness, communication skills, and confidence needed to lead authentically and deliver meaningful results.

If you’d like to explore how leadership development can help your organization build stronger, more effective leaders, consider scheduling a complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop to experience Crestcom’s approach firsthand.

The post Stop Subtracting Yourself to Fit In! Authentic Leadership with Dale Wilsher appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Summary

Managing change in the workplace requires more than new strategies or systems. In this episode, Nick Montalbine explains why many change efforts fail due to overloaded systems, lack of trust, and employee burnout. He explores practical frameworks for improving focus, rebuilding trust, and creating healthier workplaces that adapt more effectively to change.

Organizations are experiencing constant disruption. AI is changing workflows. Teams are navigating restructures, layoffs, shifting priorities, and increasing pressure to produce results with fewer resources. Amid all this uncertainty, leaders are still expected to guide teams confidently through change.

The problem? Most organizations are approaching change the wrong way.

In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sits down with change leadership expert Nick Montalbine to discuss why so many workplace change initiatives fail and what leaders can do differently. Their conversation explores overloaded systems, employee burnout, breakdowns in trust, and the hidden signals leaders often miss during organizational change.

Meet Nick Montalbine, Founder of Inner Voice AnalyticsNick Montalbine is the founder of Inner Voice Analytics, a consultancy focused on helping organizations detect cultural and operational issues before they become major problems. With more than 20 years of experience leading transformation efforts in complex organizations across Nike, healthcare, finance, and retail, Nick specializes in leadership development, organizational listening, and transformation strategy.

Throughout the episode, Nick introduces a simple but powerful framework leaders can use to better manage change in the workplace: attention, trust, and energy.

Why Managing Change in the Workplace Often FailsOne of the most important takeaways from the episode is that most change initiatives do not fail because employees resist change.

They fail because organizations operate within overloaded systems.

According to Nick, overloaded systems occur when organizations attempt to manage too many competing priorities at once. Problems become filtered, decisions get delayed, communication breaks down, and employees stop speaking up early about risks or concerns.

As a result, workplace change efforts slowly lose momentum and direction.

Nick explains that leaders should pay close attention to three critical areas that determine whether change efforts succeed or fail:

• Attention
• Trust
• Energy

When these areas become depleted, employees stop signaling problems. They stop sharing ideas, raising concerns, or challenging assumptions. By the time leaders recognize the issue, long-term damage is often already done.

Attention: The Hidden Barrier to Workplace ChangeModern workplaces are overloaded with competing priorities.

Teams are juggling strategic initiatives, daily operations, meetings, emails, system changes, reporting requirements, and constant interruptions. Leaders often continue adding more initiatives without removing old ones.

According to Nick, this creates a major attention problem inside organizations. Employees struggle to determine what truly matters day-to-day because everything is presented as urgent and important.

One practical framework Nick recommends is evaluating work based on two factors:

• Strategic importance
• Complexity

This creates four categories:

• Boulders: high importance, high complexity
• Rocks: high importance, lower complexity
• Pebbles: low importance, low complexity
• Low-value work: low importance, high complexity

The goal is not to eliminate important work. The goal is to prevent organizations from taking on too many “boulders” at once.

This is especially important for leaders managing organizational change. Employees cannot focus effectively when priorities constantly shift or when every project is treated like a top priority.

Clear communication, monthly prioritization conversations, and realistic workloads all help improve organizational focus during periods of change.

Trust: Why Employees Stop Speaking UpTrust plays a major role in successful workplace change.

Nick describes trust as employees feeling safe enough to say the hard things. When trust is low, people stop raising concerns, stop sharing ideas, and stop challenging decisions.

Leaders often mistake silence for agreement.

In reality, silence may signal disengagement, fear, exhaustion, or psychological withdrawal.

Jenn DeWall highlights a common workplace reality many leaders overlook: eventually, employees may stop trying to help because they no longer believe their input matters.

Nick points to several warning signs that trust may be declining:

• Fewer ideas are shared in meetings
• Reduced curiosity
• Less disagreement or debate
• Employees are becoming quieter or more withdrawn

Rebuilding trust requires leaders to consistently listen and act on feedback. Nick also recommends creating intentional space for dialogue by encouraging healthy disagreement and even assigning someone to play the “contrarian” role during meetings.

Another important insight from the episode is that annual employee engagement surveys are no longer enough.

Employee sentiment changes too quickly in modern workplaces. Leaders need more frequent opportunities to understand how employees are feeling and to identify concerns before they become larger cultural problems.

Energy: The Burnout Problem Leaders Cannot IgnoreMany employees are trying to manage heavy workloads while simultaneously adapting to organizational change.

That creates a major energy problem.

Nick references research identifying three different forms of burnout:

• Overload burnout
• Under-challenged burnout
• Neglect burnout

Most leaders recognize overload burnout, where employees feel buried under excessive work demands. But many overlook the other two forms.

Team members may feel disengaged because they are underutilized or disconnected from meaningful work. Others may neglect their own well-being due to stress, isolation, or emotional exhaustion.

This is particularly important during periods of organizational change because burnout reduces engagement, creativity, collaboration, and resilience.

Leaders should pay attention to shifts in participation, energy, communication patterns, and overall engagement. Small behavioral changes may indicate that employees are struggling long before performance issues appear.

Managing Change Requires Better Leadership SystemsManaging change in the workplace is not just about communication plans or new processes. It requires leadership systems and a company culture that support people through uncertainty.

Organizations need:

• Clear priorities
• Open communication
• Psychological safety
• Regular employee listening
• Realistic workloads
• Ongoing leadership development

Without those systems, even well-intentioned change initiatives can fail.

This is one reason leadership development matters so much during periods of disruption. Leaders need practical tools to manage communication, accountability, emotional intelligence, trust, delegation, and organizational alignment as they navigate change.

Programs like Crestcom International’s Crestcom LEADER help leaders build these skills through live-facilitated learning, real-world application, accountability, and ongoing coaching support.

Where to Find More from Nick Montalbine Visit Nick’s website: nickmontalbine.com * Connect on LinkedIn*

Final ThoughtsChange is not slowing down.

However, successful organizational change management isn’t just about moving the fastest. Managing change effectively requires creating an organizational structure in which employees can stay focused, speak honestly, and maintain the energy needed to adapt.

As Nick Montalbine explains throughout the episode, leaders should pay attention to the signals their organizations are sending. Silence, disengagement, burnout, and confusion are not random workplace problems. They are indicators that systems may be overloaded, and people may need more support.

If your organization is navigating workplace change and looking to strengthen leadership capabilities, request a complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop from Crestcom International. In this interactive two-hour workshop, your team will gain practical leadership tools to improve communication, accountability, trust, and decision-making during times of change.

The post Managing Change Effectively in the Workplace With Nick Montalbine appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Summary: Former Paralympian and Army veteran John Register joins The Leadership Habit to discuss leadership decision-making, resilience, and overcoming adversity. After losing his leg while training for the Olympics, Register rebuilt his life and became a Paralympic silver medalist. In this episode, he shares his “Amputate to Elevate” leadership philosophy, encouraging leaders to let go of indecision, outdated thinking, and limiting beliefs in order to adapt and move forward. The conversation explores leadership under pressure, leading through uncertainty, and the critical importance of decisive leadership for organizational growth and change.

Leadership today requires more than vision. It requires the courage to make difficult decisions before all the answers are available.

On the latest episode of the Leadership Habit podcast, John Register joined host Jenn DeWall for a conversation about resilience, leadership decision-making, and what it truly means to move forward after adversity.

John’s story is remarkable. A decorated Persian Gulf War Army veteran and elite athlete, he was training for the Olympic Games when a devastating injury changed everything. After a missed hurdle caused severe damage to his leg, he made the life-altering decision to amputate above the knee. Instead of allowing that moment to define him, he adapted, rebuilt, and eventually became a two-sport Paralympic athlete and silver medalist.

But this episode is about much more than athletics. It is about leadership under pressure and the decisions leaders avoid making every day.

Meet John Register, Paralympic Silver MedalistJohn Register is a leadership keynote speaker, strategic advisor, Army combat veteran, Paralympic silver medalist, and co-founder of the U.S. Olympic Committee’s Paralympic Military Sports Program. Today, he helps organizations navigate change and uncertainty through his “Amputate to Elevate” philosophy, which focuses on removing what no longer serves you in order to move forward with clarity and purpose.

Throughout the conversation, John shares lessons from military leadership, elite sports, and personal adversity that apply directly to today’s workplace challenges.

The Leadership Cost of IndecisionOne of the biggest themes in this episode is indecision.

According to John, many leaders already know what needs to change. The challenge is not awareness. The challenge is commitment.

Whether it is addressing an underperforming employee, adopting new technology, changing strategy, or having a difficult conversation, leaders often stay stuck waiting for certainty that never comes.

As John explains in the episode:

“You know what you need to cut. You know you’ve been holding onto that thing for a very long time.”

That hesitation creates organizational drag. Teams lose momentum. Problems linger. Innovation slows down. Employees lose confidence in leadership.

In many organizations, the real issue is not a lack of strategy. It is a lack of decisive leadership.

The “Amputate to Elevate” Leadership PhilosophyJohn’s “Amputate to Elevate” philosophy challenges leaders to let go of what no longer supports growth.

That might mean:

• Letting go of outdated systems
• Releasing limiting beliefs
• Moving on from ineffective processes
• Making difficult personnel decisions
• Re-evaluating priorities
• Accepting that old approaches may no longer work

The concept is uncomfortable by design. Transformation is difficult because it requires leaders to become something different.

As John explains, most people say they want transformation, but what they really want is transition. They want improvement without discomfort. Real growth rarely works that way.

This is especially relevant in a business environment shaped by rapid technological change, shifting employee expectations, economic uncertainty, and AI disruption. Organizations that wait too long to adapt risk falling behind.

The Resonance Model: A Framework for Leading Through ChangeA major portion of the episode focuses on John’s “Resonance Model,” which includes three stages leaders move through during change:

ReckoningThis is the stage where leaders recognize something is no longer working. However, many organizations stay stuck here because they resist acknowledging the real problem.

John describes reckoning as the tension between wanting things to stay the same while simultaneously knowing change is necessary.

RevisionRevision is the planning and possibility stage. Leaders begin exploring options, considering new paths, and imagining different outcomes.

This is where creativity and adaptability become essential leadership skills.

RenewalRenewal begins when leaders commit to action.

Once a decision is made, there is no returning to the previous version of reality. That commitment creates momentum, learning, and growth.

John repeatedly emphasizes that nothing changes until action happens.

“Nothing starts until the button is pushed.”

For many leaders, this is the hardest step.

Leadership Decision Making in Uncertain TimesOne of the strongest leadership lessons from this episode is the idea that certainty is an illusion.

Leaders often delay decisions because they want more data, more confidence, or guarantees about outcomes. John references former Secretary of State Colin Powell and his “40/70 Rule.”

The idea is simple:

• With less than 40% of the information, you likely do not know enough to decide.
• With more than 70%, you may already be waiting too long.

At some point, leaders must act without perfect information.

This mindset is critical for modern leadership development. Markets change quickly. Employee expectations evolve rapidly. Technology advances constantly. Teams need leaders who can make thoughtful decisions and move forward with confidence.

Leadership Resilience Is Built Through ActionAnother powerful takeaway from this episode is that resilience is not passive.

John did not become resilient because adversity happened to him. He became resilient because he continued moving forward after adversity.

After losing his leg, he did not initially know about the Paralympic Games. He simply took the next step available to him by swimming for physical therapy. That one step eventually opened entirely new opportunities.

That lesson applies directly to leadership.

Leaders do not need to have every answer immediately. They need the willingness to move forward, learn, adapt, and continue making progress.

Action creates clarity.

Indecision creates stagnation.

Why Leadership Development Matters More Than EverThis episode reinforces why leadership development cannot be treated as a one-time event.

Strong leadership requires ongoing growth, adaptability, communication, and decision-making practice. Leaders need opportunities to strengthen their confidence, challenge limiting assumptions, and develop the skills necessary to lead through uncertainty.

Organizations that invest in leadership development create leaders who are better equipped to:

• Navigate change
• Communicate clearly
• Make difficult decisions
• Build trust
• Adapt quickly
• Support employee engagement
• Create accountability

Those capabilities matter now more than ever.

Where to Find More From John Register* Listen to the full episode * Visit John Register’s website * Connect with John on LinkedIn

Ready to Strengthen Your Leadership Skills?Leadership growth does not happen by accident. It happens through intentional development, practice, and learning.

If your organization is looking to improve communication, accountability, decision making, and leadership effectiveness, Crestcom’s complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop can help. The workshop is available virtually or in person for teams around the world.

Learn more at:
Crestcom Leadership Skills Workshop

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Understanding Leadership Communication Styles with Jeremie KubicekLeadership often breaks down in moments that seem small. A missed expectation. A frustrating conversation. A team member who just doesn’t seem to “get it.”

But what if the issue isn’t effort or intent? What if it’s communication?

In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Jeremie Kubicek to explore how understanding personality styles in leadership can improve communication, build trust, and drive stronger results.

The conversation centers on a simple idea:
Leaders don’t struggle because they don’t care. They struggle because they communicate in a way their team doesn’t understand.

Meet Jeremie KubicekJeremie Kubicek is an entrepreneur, leadership architect, and co-founder of Giant Worldwide. He is also the author of multiple leadership books, including The Five Voices and The Voice-Driven Leader.

His work focuses on helping leaders better understand how people think and communicate so they can lead more effectively.

Why Leaders Struggle to Develop Their TeamsOne of the most practical insights from this episode is how often leaders unintentionally prioritize tasks over people.

Many leaders default to “managing up” instead of developing their teams. As Kubicek explains, pressure from above often pulls leaders away from investing in the people they are responsible for.

“There’s pressure to just do our day job… so it becomes a default to focus on the person above them instead of developing the people they’re responsible for.”

This creates a common leadership trap. Teams become dependent instead of empowered. Leaders feel overwhelmed. Performance suffers over time.

And most importantly, teams disengage.

The Difference Between Compliance and EngagementA key theme in this episode is the difference between getting people to follow directions and getting them to care about the outcome.

Command-and-control leadership can produce compliance. But it rarely produces engagement.

“Leaders who rely on pressure may get results in the short term, but they miss out on ownership, initiative, and long-term performance.”

When people don’t feel understood, they stop contributing beyond what is required. They do the work, but they don’t invest in it.

That is where leadership communication becomes a competitive advantage.

The Five Voices: A Practical Framework for Leadership CommunicationTo help leaders better understand personality styles, Kubicek introduces the Five Voices framework:

1. Nurturer: Relationship-focused and values harmony
2. Creative: Future-oriented and idea-driven
3. Guardian: Detail-focused and structure
4. Connector: Relationship builder and network-oriented
5. Pioneer: Results-driven and decisive

This framework simplifies personality styles into something leaders can actually use inside their teams.

Instead of relying on complex assessments, it creates a shared language that helps leaders quickly identify how their team members think and communicate.

Why Speaking Your Team’s Language MattersOne of the most powerful ideas in the episode is that leadership communication is not about what you say. It is about how it is received.

Kubicek compares this to speaking a foreign language. If you speak only in your own style, you may still get results, but you create friction.

When you adapt your communication to match the other person, you build trust.

Leaders who learn to “speak the language” of their team members:

– Improve clarity
– Reduce misunderstandings
– Increase engagement
– Strengthen relationships

This shift is simple in concept, but it requires intentional effort.

How Miscommunication Happens Inside TeamsMiscommunication often comes from differences in how people interpret information. For example, a leader may share an idea casually, thinking out loud. But a team member may interpret that idea as a commitment.

The result is frustration on both sides.

As Kubicek explains, this tension often exists between future-oriented thinkers and present-oriented thinkers. Without a shared understanding of communication styles, these small moments can turn into larger trust issues over time.

Simple Ways to Apply This in Your TeamThis episode offers practical ways leaders can begin applying these ideas immediately:

1. Start with self-awareness. Understand how you naturally communicate and how others experience you.
2. Learn your team. Identify how each person processes information, makes decisions, and responds under pressure.
3. Adjust your communication. Speak in a way that resonates with the other person instead of defaulting to your own style.
4. Structure meetings intentionally. Give quieter voices the opportunity to contribute before dominant voices take over.
5. Recognize stress behaviors. Different personalities react differently under pressure. When you understand those patterns, you can respond with intention instead of reacting emotionally.

These small adjustments can significantly improve team dynamics and performance.

Why Leadership Development Still Matters More Than EverThis episode reinforces a key idea: leadership is not a one-time skill. It is built over time through consistent development. Organizations that invest in developing their leaders see stronger results, better retention, and more engaged teams.

Yet leadership development is often the first thing reduced when pressure increases. That approach creates long-term challenges. Leadership is the multiplier. When leaders improve, everything else improves with them.

Where to Find More From Jeremie KubicekIf you want to go deeper into the Five Voices framework and learn how to apply it in your organization, here are a few ways to explore more from Jeremie Kubicek:

– Listen to the full episode
– Visit his website
– Connect on LinkedIn

Final Thoughts: Leadership Is About Understanding PeopleAt its core, this episode reinforces a simple truth. Leadership is about people. And people don’t all think, communicate, or respond the same way.

“You can’t give what you don’t possess… if you get excited about learning from other people, leadership slows down, and you can begin to read the room.”

When leaders take the time to understand their team, everything changes. Communication improves. Trust grows. Results follow.

Ready to Strengthen Your Leadership Skills?If you want to improve communication, build trust, and lead more effectively across different personality styles, Crestcom offers a complimentary two-hour leadership skills workshop.

You’ll walk away with practical tools you can apply immediately to your team. Request your session at crestcom.com/freeworkshop

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Summary

Most leaders step into their role without formal training. That gap often leads to uncertainty, hesitation, and missed opportunities to build trust early. In this episode of The Leadership Habit, Bruce Mayhew shares practical leadership skills for new leaders, focusing on building confidence, establishing trust, and creating a strong team culture from day one.

Meet Bruce MayhewBruce Mayhew is a corporate trainer, keynote speaker, and author with over 20 years of experience helping leaders improve team performance and workplace culture. After working in leadership roles at Scotiabank, he saw how leadership directly impacts engagement, trust, and results.

His latest book, The Path of an Inspired Leader, is designed as a practical guide covering more than 18 real-world leadership scenarios. Each chapter focuses on situations leaders face, from hiring and feedback to building trust and managing change.

Why Leadership Skills for New Leaders Matter More Than EverMany professionals are promoted into leadership roles without the tools to succeed. They are expected to lead, but never taught how.

As Bruce explains, this creates hesitation:

“They don’t want to ruffle any feathers… they think they have to sit back and really learn the ropes for two months or six months.”

The problem is not capability. It is a lack of clarity.

New leaders often wait for permission instead of setting direction. But strong leadership requires stepping in early to shape the environment your team operates in.

What Confidence Really Means in LeadershipOne of the most important leadership skills for new leaders is confidence. But confidence is often misunderstood.

It is not about having all the answers. Bruce reframes it clearly:

“Confidence isn’t control… confidence isn’t knowing everything.”

Instead, confidence looks like:

– Being clear about the environment you want to create
– Being willing to make mistakes
– Trusting your team before they prove themselves

Strong leaders do not walk in trying to prove their worth. They walk in reinforcing the value of others.

How to Build Trust as a New LeaderIf there is one skill that defines effective leadership, it is trust. Trust is not built through speeches or titles. It is built through behavior.

Bruce shares a powerful example of a leader who transformed a disengaged team in just weeks by focusing on trust and transparency.

What did that leader do?

– Spoke to people directly and consistently
– Created a relaxed, human environment
– Asked for input and feedback
– Clearly shared a vision for the team

The shift was immediate because people felt seen, heard, and safe.

One simple but powerful reminder:

“You can’t command respect. You have to give respect to get respect.”

The same is true for trust.

Set the Tone Early Instead of WaitingA common mistake new leaders make is waiting too long to establish expectations. They observe. They analyze. They hold back. But your team is forming opinions immediately.

Strong leaders take action early by:

– Introducing themselves personally
– Sharing how they lead
– Setting expectations around communication and accountability
– Creating clarity around team culture

Even small actions, like where you sit or how often you engage, send strong signals. Leadership is always being interpreted.

Turn Company Values Into Real Leadership ToolsMany organizations have values posted on a wall or website. Few teams actually use them. Bruce offers a simple exercise that every leader can apply:

Take your company values and discuss them with your team.

Ask:

– What does this value actually mean in our daily work?
– What does it look like in action?
– Where do we see gaps?

This creates shared understanding and reduces confusion.

You can go further by asking:

– What additional values do we want to define as a team?

When people help define expectations, they are far more likely to follow them.

How to Handle Difficult Conversations as a LeaderAvoiding difficult conversations is one of the fastest ways to lose credibility as a leader. Relationship building is crucial to becoming an effective leader.

Bruce makes an important distinction:

“Difficult conversations don’t have to be conflict… if you leave them alone, then they will become conflict.”

The goal is not to avoid discomfort. It is to address it early.

A simple leadership approach:

– Set expectations for feedback from the beginning
– Ask for permission to give input
– Focus on improvement, not blame

For example:
If I see something that could help you improve, do I have permission to share it?

This creates a culture where feedback is normal, not threatening.

Leadership Is About Creating the Right EnvironmentAt its core, leadership is not about control. It is about creating the conditions where people can succeed.

That includes:

– Psychological safety
– Clear expectations
– Open communication
– Accountability in both directions

When those conditions exist, performance improves naturally. Without them, even strong teams struggle.

Key Takeaways: Leadership Skills for New Leaders1. Confidence comes from clarity, not control.
2. Trust is built through consistent, everyday actions.
3. Leaders should set the tone early, not wait.
4. Values should be defined and discussed as a team.
5. Difficult conversations prevent larger issues.
6. Leadership is about creating an environment for success.

Where to Find More from Bruce MayhewBruce leaves leaders with a simple reminder: You do not need to have everything figured out to lead. You just need to start. Listen to the full episode today!

Then, to learn more from Bruce Mayhew, you can:

– Visit his website: brucemayhewconsulting.com
– Connect on LinkedIn
– Get his book: The Path of an Inspired Leader

What’s Next? If you are developing new leaders or stepping into a leadership role yourself, the right tools make all the difference. Crestcom’s Leadership Skills Workshop helps leaders build confidence, improve decision-making, and strengthen team performance in just two hours. Request a complimentary workshop at crestcom.com/freeworkshop

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AI is changing how we work, lead, and make decisions. For many leaders, that shift brings uncertainty. Will AI replace roles? What skills will still matter? And how should leaders respond?

In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sits down with Sylvie di Giusto to explore what it means to stay “Forever Human” in an AI-driven world. Their conversation challenges fear-based thinking and offers a practical path forward. AI is not something to compete with. It is something to understand, adapt to, and use with intention.

Meet Sylvie di Giusto, CSP, Hall of Fame SpeakerSylvie di Giusto is an international keynote speaker, author, and leadership consultant who helps organizations lead better, sell faster, and influence with intention. With decades of corporate experience and a unique 3D holographic speaking style, she brings forward-thinking insights on leadership presence, perception, and human behavior.

Her expertise has been integrated into Crestcom’s curriculum for years, helping leaders around the world strengthen communication, emotional intelligence, and decision-making.

AI Isn’t the First Disruption—and It Won’t Be the LastOne of the most important takeaways from this conversation is perspective. AI may feel new, but disruption is not. Every major technological advancement has created uncertainty, fear, and resistance before eventually becoming part of everyday life.

As Sylvie explains, “Humans have a tendency to fear and panic first and see everything as a threat rather than an opportunity.”

From the printing press to the internet, leaders have always faced moments where they had to choose between resisting change and adapting to it. The same is true today. AI is not going away. The question is not whether it will impact your role, but how you will respond to that impact.

Sylvie makes this clear when she explains that the real risk lies in choosing not to adapt. Leaders who ignore AI may eventually find themselves replaced, not because AI is inherently better, but because they chose not to evolve alongside it.

Don’t Compete with AI. Complement It.A central theme of this episode is a mindset shift that every leader must embrace. Many professionals are trying to compete with AI by working faster, producing more, or relying heavily on automation. But that approach misses the point.

Sylvie puts it simply, “The goal was never to beat the machine. It is to build with it.”

AI will always outperform humans in speed, data processing, and memory. Trying to compete in those areas is not sustainable. The real opportunity lies in focusing on what AI cannot do.

Leadership in the AI era is about combining strengths. AI handles efficiency. Leaders bring judgment, context, and human understanding. When used together, the result is far more powerful than either alone.

Where AI Wins—and Where Leaders Still MatterAI’s strengths are undeniable. It can analyze data at scale, generate content instantly, and automate repetitive tasks. But leadership has never been defined by those capabilities alone.

Take speed as an example. AI can respond instantly, but speed is not always the right answer. Sylvie advises the listeners that “AI will always win the race… but only humans know when actually you have to slow down.”

Leaders understand timing. They recognize when a situation requires pause, reflection, or a more thoughtful approach. That level of discernment cannot be automated.

The same is true for data. AI can retrieve information quickly, but it does not understand meaning. Leaders interpret data through experience, emotion, and context. They connect information to real-world impact, making decisions that go beyond what the data alone can suggest.

And when it comes to relationships, AI falls even shorter. It can mimic tone, but it cannot build trust. As AI-generated communication becomes more common, leaders face a new challenge: ensuring authenticity remains intact.

Sylvie highlights this shift clearly: “There is this new level of mistrust… people are not sure anymore what comes from the machine and what comes from the humans.”

Because of this, transparency and authenticity are no longer optional. They are essential.

Why Soft Skills Are Making a ComebackFor years, organizations prioritized efficiency, technical skills, and productivity. But AI is now outperforming humans in many of those areas, shifting the value back to human-centered capabilities.

Sylvie emphasizes that, “there will be a big comeback for soft skills because those are the skills that AI cannot replicate.”

Skills like emotional intelligence, communication, adaptability, and critical thinking are becoming more valuable, not less. Leaders who invest in these areas will be better equipped to navigate complexity, build trust, and guide teams through change.

This is a major opportunity. While AI handles the mechanical aspects of work, leaders can focus on what drives performance at a deeper level—people.

Creativity Still Belongs to HumansAI can generate ideas quickly, but those ideas are based on existing data. It recombines what already exists rather than creating something entirely new.

As Sylvie explains, “AI just sources ideas that already exist… it really can’t invent something that has never existed before.”

This reinforces the importance of human creativity. Innovation still depends on original thinking, curiosity, and the ability to challenge assumptions.

Leaders who rely solely on AI for ideas risk producing predictable results. Those who combine AI insights with human creativity can push beyond what already exists and create something truly new.

Ethics, Accountability, and Leadership ResponsibilityPerhaps the most critical leadership responsibility in an AI-driven world is accountability. AI can generate recommendations, but it cannot take responsibility for outcomes.

Sylvie illustrates this point, saying, “AI might look into the performance data… and say you have to fire that person. But you as a human… have the ability to question why.”

Leaders must consider context, circumstances, and human factors that AI cannot fully understand. They must apply judgment, empathy, and ethical reasoning to every decision.

Equally important is resisting the temptation to shift blame. “You cannot allow yourself… to point at AI and say, ‘It wasn’t me.’” No matter how advanced the tool, accountability remains with the leader.

How AI Is Changing Leadership BehaviorAI is not just changing how work gets done. It is changing how people think, communicate, and behave.

Sylvie points to several shifts leaders must recognize. Focus is decreasing as distractions increase. At the same time, people are becoming more selective with their attention.

“Attention is the new currency—and it’s becoming very expensive.”

This means leaders must communicate more clearly and concisely than ever before. If a message is not immediately relevant, it will be ignored.

Patience is also declining. People expect faster responses and quicker outcomes. Leaders must balance this urgency with thoughtful decision-making, ensuring that speed does not come at the cost of quality.

At the same time, communication itself is changing. AI tools make it easier to produce content quickly, but that efficiency can come at the expense of authenticity. Leaders must ensure their voice remains present in what they share.

The Risk Leaders Aren’t Talking AboutOne of the more overlooked risks of AI is how freely people share information with it. In many cases, individuals are more comfortable asking AI questions than speaking with a colleague or leader.

Sylvie warns that this behavior has consequences, “Whatever you share with AI creates… a shadow profile about you.”

Over time, this data contributes to a broader digital footprint that may influence how information is generated and shared. Leaders must be intentional about what they input into AI systems and encourage their teams to do the same.

Key TakeawaysAI is not replacing leadership. It is reshaping it. The leaders who succeed will be the ones who adapt, not resist. They will understand where AI adds value and where human skills must take the lead.

They will invest in emotional intelligence, communication, and critical thinking. They will remain accountable for decisions. And they will focus on building trust in a world where authenticity is increasingly important.

Or, as Sylvie summarizes it best, “Don’t compete with AI. Focus on what you do in the moments that matter most as a human being.”

Where to Find More from Sylvie di GiustoTo learn more from Sylvie, visit sylviedigiusto.com, connect with her on LinkedIn, or explore her keynote presentations and books focused on leadership, perception, and influence.

Strengthen Your Leadership SkillsAI will continue to evolve, but leadership will always remain human. The ability to communicate clearly, think critically, and lead with intention will only become more important.

If you want to strengthen these skills within your organization, request a complimentary two-hour leadership workshop at crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

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SummaryInnovation at work rarely happens because leaders demand better ideas. It happens when leaders create the right conditions for ideas to emerge. In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, creativity strategist Melissa Dinwiddie explains how leaders can spark innovation by encouraging experimentation, reducing perfectionism, and helping teams learn faster through small “micro-experiments.”

Innovation is often described as a competitive advantage, but many organizations struggle to consistently generate new ideas. In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall speaks with creativity strategist Melissa Dinwiddie about how leaders can remove barriers to creativity and help their teams experiment, learn, and generate innovative solutions.

Meet Melissa Dinwiddie, Creativity InstigatorMelissa Dinwiddie is a Juilliard-trained dancer turned creativity instigator, innovation strategist, and author of The Creative Sandbox Way and Innovation at Work. She is the Chief Instigator and Lead Facilitator at Creative Sandbox Solutions, where she helps leaders and teams overcome creative barriers, strengthen collaboration, and unlock innovative thinking.

Drawing from her background as a professional artist and creativity coach, Melissa developed practical frameworks that help teams move past perfectionism and rediscover the power of experimentation and play when solving complex problems.

Why Innovation at Work Often StallsMany organizations expect innovation, but unknowingly create conditions that prevent it.

One of the biggest barriers is uncertainty. Innovation requires doing something new, which means stepping away from established best practices. For many employees, that feels risky.

Another major barrier is perfectionism. High-performing professionals often believe every idea must be polished before it is shared. The result is hesitation, overthinking, and stalled progress.

Melissa explains that when people feel pressure to be perfect, they often stop experimenting altogether. Instead of sharing unfinished ideas, they wait until something feels safe to present. Unfortunately, innovation rarely works that way.

The Leadership Framework for Creating Innovation at WorkMelissa introduces a simple approach called “Create the Impossible,” designed to help leaders break through barriers to innovation in the workplace.

The framework encourages leaders to help teams explore ideas, experiment without fear of failure, and learn quickly from every attempt.

The approach focuses on three behaviors that help teams move ideas forward.

Play Hard: Encourage Exploration and Curiosity

Play is not about wasting time. It is about exploration.

When teams experiment, test ideas, and explore possibilities without immediate pressure to succeed, they unlock new perspectives and creative thinking. Exploration creates the mental space where innovation begins.

Make “Crap”: Break the Perfectionism Barrier

Innovation requires generating many imperfect ideas before discovering the best ones.

Melissa explains that low-fidelity ideas help teams bypass perfectionism and restore momentum. When people feel safe producing imperfect work, they become more willing to experiment and share ideas.

Learn Fast: Turn Experiments Into Insights

The final step focuses on learning from every experiment.

Instead of obsessing over whether an idea is perfect, teams focus on what they can learn from each attempt. Organizations that learn quickly improve faster and maintain a steady pace of innovation.

Three Practical Micro-Experiments to Spark Innovation on Your TeamMelissa’s book, Innovation at Work, includes 52 micro-experiments that leaders can run with their teams. These small exercises help teams think differently without requiring large workshops or lengthy innovation sessions.

Here are three examples discussed in the episode.

The “Crappy First Draft” Exercise

Teams set a timer for ten minutes and deliberately create a terrible first draft of an idea or project.

The goal is not quality. The goal is momentum.

By removing pressure to be perfect, the exercise helps people move ideas forward and encourages open idea sharing.

Silent Sync: Equalizing Participation in Meetings

In this exercise, team members write ideas simultaneously in a shared document without speaking.

This prevents meetings from being dominated by the loudest voices and ensures every team member has the opportunity to contribute ideas.

For leaders managing diverse personalities, this technique helps create a more inclusive and balanced conversation.

Make It Smaller: Turning Big Ideas Into Action

When a project feels overwhelming, leaders ask one simple question:

What is the smallest version of this that would still create value this week?

Breaking large goals into smaller steps reduces anxiety and helps teams move from thinking to action.

Where to Find More From Melissa Dinwiddie Connect with Melissa Dinwiddie on LinkedIn * Visit her website at MelissaDinwiddie.com * Subscribe to her YouTube Channel*

Innovation Leadership Is About Creating the Right ConditionsOne of the most important insights from the episode is that innovation does not start with better ideas. It starts with better conditions for ideas to emerge.

When leaders create environments that encourage experimentation, psychological safety, and curiosity, innovation becomes a natural outcome. Instead of waiting for breakthrough ideas, teams begin generating them consistently.

Small experiments like the ones Melissa shares help leaders shift their team culture toward exploration and continuous improvement.

Listen to the Full Leadership Habit Podcast EpisodeIn this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall speaks with Melissa Dinwiddie about how leaders can spark innovation at work through experimentation, creativity, and psychological safety.

Listen to the full episode HERE.

Want More Leadership Insights?If you’re exploring how leaders can strengthen innovation at work, these additional leadership resources may also be helpful:

1. How to Escape the Delegation Trap with Atiba de Souza
2. How to Drive Results as a Leadership Coach with Will Linssen
3. How to Prepare for High-Stakes Conversations with Amy K. Hutchens

These conversations explore leadership skills that help managers strengthen communication, empower teams, and improve performance.

How to Strengthen Leadership and Innovation on Your TeamInnovation grows when leaders know how to build trust, encourage new ideas, and help teams think independently. If you want to strengthen those capabilities across your organization, request a complimentary two-hour leadership skills workshop. Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to learn more.

Frequently Asked Questions About Innovation at WorkWhat helps teams become more innovative at work?

Teams become more innovative when leaders create psychological safety, encourage experimentation, and allow space for imperfect ideas to develop.

Why do many organizations struggle with innovation?

Innovation often stalls because employees feel pressure to be perfect or fear making mistakes. This prevents experimentation and idea sharing.

How can leaders encourage innovation on their teams?

Leaders can introduce small experiments, encourage creative thinking, and focus on learning quickly rather than getting everything right the first time.

The post How to Spark Innovation at Work with Melissa Dinwiddie appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Change is unavoidable in today’s workplace. But confusion, resistance, and stalled initiatives don’t have to be. In this episode of The Leadership Habit, Jenn DeWall sits down with change strategist Rebecca Reynolds to explore why most transformations struggle—and how leaders can guide their teams through change with clarity, confidence, and lasting impact.

Meet Rebecca Reynolds, CEO & StrategistRebecca Reynolds is the founder and CEO of RRC and a trusted advisor to leaders navigating complex organizational change. With more than 30 years of experience across corporate, nonprofit, and public sector organizations, she helps executives align teams, strengthen communication, and lead transformations that stick.

Rebecca is also the author of Thresholds of Change: The Way Through Transformational Times, a practical playbook for guiding personal and organizational transformation. Her work focuses on designing change processes that support leaders while keeping people engaged, resilient, and focused on results.

Why Most Change Initiatives StruggleIn the episode, Reynolds shares a powerful insight: nearly 70% of people naturally resist change. That means most leaders are working against human instinct when introducing new strategies, systems, or priorities.

Too often, organizations treat change as a one-time announcement rather than a structured journey. Leaders introduce a new idea, hope it works, and move on. When results fall short, teams become frustrated and disengaged.

Sustainable change requires intention, pacing, and continuous communication—not quick fixes.

The Four Thresholds of ChangeReynolds’ “Thresholds of Change” framework explains how people and organizations move through transformation in predictable stages.

1. Instigation: Recognizing Early Warning SignsThis stage is about noticing when something is no longer working. Declining morale, repeated mistakes, missed deadlines, and customer complaints are all indicators that change may be necessary.

Effective leaders pay attention early, before small problems become major disruptions.

2. The Liminal Stage: Creating Space for InsightOften called the “messy middle,” this phase is where many leaders lose patience. Instead of rushing to solutions, Reynolds encourages leaders to pause and listen.

This stage allows teams to challenge assumptions, explore possibilities, and develop better ideas. It is uncomfortable—but essential for meaningful change.

3. Metabolization: Testing New ApproachesOnce clarity emerges, teams begin experimenting. Leaders pilot ideas, gather feedback, and refine processes.

This stage builds confidence and helps employees feel ownership of the change.

4. Manifestation: Making Change StickIn the final stage, the organization operates with stronger alignment and renewed momentum. Performance improves, people trust the direction, and new habits become part of everyday work.

When leaders engage the full process, change becomes lasting rather than temporary.

Where Leaders Commonly Go WrongThroughout the conversation, Jenn and Rebecca highlight several common mistakes that derail transformation:

• Treating major change like routine management
• Assuming everyone is comfortable with uncertainty
• Ignoring frontline perspectives
• Skipping reflection and planning time
• Communicating decisions only after they are finalized

One key takeaway is that leaders are often more adaptable than their teams. Without intentional support, this gap leads to resistance and frustration.

Why Collaboration Matters in ChangeSuccessful change is rarely built in isolation.

Instead of designing plans behind closed doors, strong leaders invite input throughout the process. This improves solutions, builds trust, and prevents costly blind spots.

When people feel heard and involved, they are far more likely to support new initiatives.

Applying These Lessons in Your OrganizationThis episode offers practical guidance for leaders at every level. As you reflect, consider:

• What signals might you be overlooking?
• Have you created space for honest dialogue?
• Are you moving too quickly to “fix” things?
• Who needs to be involved earlier?

Change does not fail because people are incapable. It fails when leaders underestimate its complexity.

Learn More from Rebecca Reynolds Explore Rebecca’s work and resources, visit her website: rebeccareynoldsconsulting.com * You can also learn more through her book Thresholds of Change: The Way Through Transformational Times*, which provides tools and frameworks for navigating transformation with confidence.

One of the biggest reasons change efforts stall is that teams aren’t aligned on how significant the change actually is. To help with that, Rebecca is offering Leadership Habit listeners a complimentary tool called The Change Scale Assessment. It helps leadership teams quickly align on the true scale of change they’re facing—before decisions are made or momentum is lost.

Designed for groups of any size, the assessment brings multiple perspectives into the conversation, creating shared clarity and a more durable path forward. You can download the Change Scale Assessment for free at [https://changeauthor.myflodesk.com/ey39shovqa].

Strengthen Your Leadership Skills with CrestcomLeading change effectively requires strong communication, decision-making, and accountability skills.

Crestcom’s Complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop is a two-hour, interactive experience designed to help leaders and teams work better together and navigate challenges with confidence.

Request your free workshop today at: https://crestcom.com/freeworkshop

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Employee engagement is at its lowest point in more than a decade. Many organizations are filled with talented, capable people who want to contribute, yet hesitate to take action. The missing link is often not skill or motivation. It is empowerment.

In a recent minisode of The Leadership Habit, host Jenn DeWall delivers a focused masterclass on how empowerment drives better decisions, stronger ownership, and sustainable performance.

This episode explores why empowered leaders and teams consistently outperform those operating in environments of hesitation and dependency.

Why Empowerment Matters More Than EverLow engagement, burnout, and slow decision-making are becoming common challenges across industries. Teams are capable, but without clear authority, confidence, and trust, they often wait for approval instead of taking initiative.

As Jenn explains in the episode:

“Empowerment is equipping people with the authority, confidence, information, and psychological safety to make meaningful decisions.”

Without these elements, leaders become bottlenecks. Projects stall. Innovation slows. Accountability weakens.

Empowerment is what turns leadership development into measurable business impact.

What Does Real Empowerment Look Like?In the minisode, Jenn outlines four essential components of empowerment:

1. Authority:People must know what decisions they are allowed to make.

2. ConfidenceThey need training, support, and trust to act effectively.

3. InformationThey must have access to the right data, tools, and context.

4. Psychological SafetyThey need to feel safe taking risks without fear of punishment.

When even one of these is missing, hesitation grows, and performance suffers.

The ABCs of Self-EmpowermentEmpowerment does not start with policies or programs. It starts with leaders themselves. Jenn introduces the ABC framework for self-empowerment:

A: Know What You OwnUnderstand which decisions belong to you and which can be delegated.

B: Trust Your JudgmentWaiting for perfect information increases stress and delays results.

C: Give Yourself Permission to DecideYou will never feel 100 percent ready. Progress requires action.

As Jenn reminds listeners:

“Not making a decision is still a decision.”

Avoiding choices often creates bigger problems than making an imperfect one.

How Empowered Leaders Reduce Burnout and Decision FatigueMany leaders struggle with decision fatigue after managing constant demands. Over time, this leads to hesitation, stress, and disengagement.

In the episode, Jenn shares practical ways to overcome this:

• Make important decisions earlier in the day
• Limit unnecessary options
• Set time limits for decision-making
• Avoid major choices when tired, overwhelmed, or emotionally flooded
• Build reflection habits to strengthen confidence

She also encourages leaders to regularly document wins to reinforce self-trust and momentum.

Delegation That Builds Leaders, Not DependencyOne of the most powerful sections of the minisode focuses on delegation. Too often, leaders delegate tasks without context. This creates dependency rather than growth.

Jenn distinguishes between task delegation and thinking delegation. When you delegate tasks, you may say something like, “Do this. Follow these steps.” However, if you are delegating thinking, it may sound more like, “Here is the desired outcome, how would you approach this?”

To delegate effectively, leaders must provide:

1. Information – Relevant facts, expectations, and constraints
2. Why – The purpose behind the work
3. Authority – Clear permission to decide

When these elements are present, teams make faster, smarter decisions and require less supervision.

The Benefits of Empowered TeamsWhen empowerment becomes part of workplace culture, organizations experience:

• Higher engagement
• Faster decision-making
• Greater innovation
• Increased accountability
• Improved retention
• Stronger leadership pipelines

Jenn summarizes it clearly:

“You can’t empower others if you can’t empower yourself.”

Empowered leaders create empowered organizations.

Want to Go Deeper into Empowered Leadership?If you want to take a deeper dive into empowered leadership, the first step is to listen to the full episode!

Then, explore Crestcom’s additional leadership resources designed to help leaders apply these principles in real-world settings, including:

• The Empowerment eBook
• An on-demand empowerment webinar

You can also request a complimentary leadership skills workshop to bring these concepts directly to your team.

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Escape the Delegation Trap and Empower Your TeamMany leaders believe delegation is simply about assigning tasks. In reality, poor delegation is one of the biggest drivers of burnout, bottlenecks, and disengaged teams.

In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit, host Jenn DeWall sits down with CEO strategist and productivity expert Atiba de Souza, author of The Delegation Trap. Together, they unpack why most leaders feel stuck answering the same questions, doing too much themselves, and struggling to build true bench strength on their teams.

This conversation goes beyond delegation theory. Atiba shares hard-earned lessons from more than 30 years in business and coaching, along with a practical framework leaders can use immediately to help their teams think more clearly, take ownership, and perform at a higher level.

Meet Atiba de Souza, Author and EntrepreneurAtiba de Souza is known as a secret weapon for organizations with underperforming teams. As a CEO, strategist, and team productivity expert, he helps leaders remove delegation bottlenecks and transform how work gets done.

With more than three decades of business experience and over 15 years as a championship football coach, Atiba brings a rare blend of real-world leadership, team development, and performance discipline. His work focuses on practical frameworks that improve productivity by teaching leaders to empower others rather than becoming bottlenecks themselves.

Why Delegation Breaks DownMany leaders start with good intentions. They train their teams. They explain expectations. They provide resources.

Yet over time, the same frustrations appear:

• Leaders answer the same questions repeatedly
• Decisions funnel upward
• Managers feel overwhelmed and burned out
• Teams hesitate to act without approval

As Atiba explains in the episode, this often leads leaders to believe they have a people problem when in reality they have a delegation problem.

Too often, delegation becomes telling instead of teaching. When leaders jump in with answers, they unintentionally train their teams to depend on them rather than think for themselves.

The Delegation TrapAtiba describes the “delegation trap” as the moment leaders realize their business or team cannot move without them.

Even when performance looks strong on the surface, leaders feel trapped because:

• The organization relies on their constant input
• Time off feels impossible
• Growth is limited by their own capacity

In the episode, Atiba shares how he discovered this problem firsthand when he realized he spent much of his day answering questions he felt he had already addressed. That realization became the catalyst for developing a new way to delegate that focuses on thinking, not just doing.

The CASE Method: A Better Way to DelegateAt the heart of Atiba’s book is a simple but powerful framework called the CASE Method. Rather than telling people what to do, this approach helps leaders coach their teams to think through problems independently.

C – ChallengesLeaders begin by asking team members what challenges they encountered. This opens the conversation without judgment and creates psychological safety.

A – ArticulateNext, employees articulate each step they took. This allows leaders to see how the person is thinking, not just what outcome they reached.

S – StudyTogether, leaders and employees study selected steps, exploring assumptions, decisions, and outcomes. Instead of correcting mistakes directly, leaders ask questions that guide discovery.

This is where learning accelerates. Employees begin connecting cause and effect on their own.

E – Easier Than ExpectedFinally, leaders ask what felt easier than expected. This step often reveals hidden strengths and talents leaders may not have recognized.

Over time, this process helps employees move beyond task completion and toward true ownership.

Why Teaching People How to Think MattersThroughout the conversation, one message stands out: effective leaders do not teach people what to do. They teach people how to think.

Atiba explains that as artificial intelligence continues to reshape work, leadership will increasingly depend on asking better questions rather than providing faster answers.

Leaders who rely on telling will struggle. Leaders who coach thinking will build resilient, adaptable teams.

This shift requires curiosity, patience, and restraint. It also requires leaders to talk less and listen more.

A Powerful Reminder for LeadersOne of the most impactful moments in the episode comes when Atiba shares a personal story from early in his coaching journey. After a difficult season, his young son told him he never wanted to play football again because of his coaching style.

That moment forced Atiba to look in the mirror and confront an uncomfortable truth: leadership without empowerment creates disengagement.

The lesson applies far beyond sports. Leaders must be willing to examine their own habits and recognize when their approach may be unintentionally limiting others.

Key Takeaways from This Episode* Delegation failures are often leadership system failures * Answering questions too quickly creates dependency * Empowerment grows through guided thinking, not direction * Strong leaders ask better questions, not more questions * Simple leadership fundamentals outperform complex frameworks

Where to Learn More from Atiba de SouzaTo dive deeper into the CASE Method and practical delegation strategies, visit TheDelegationTrap.com, where you can find Atiba’s book and additional resources designed to help leaders delegate more effectively.

You can also connect with Atiba to learn how his frameworks help leaders build stronger, more autonomous teams.

Continue Building Your Leadership SkillsDelegation, coaching, and empowerment are core leadership capabilities. They do not develop by accident.

Crestcom helps leaders strengthen these skills through structured learning, discussion, and application. If you want to sharpen your ability to lead, coach, and empower your team, you can request a complimentary two-hour leadership workshop at crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

If you know a leader who feels overwhelmed, stuck answering every question, or struggling to step out of the weeds, share this episode with them. One new approach could change how they lead.

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Leadership does not stand still. It changes as people change, as work changes, and as expectations evolve. In this special spotlight episode of The Leadership Habit, host Jenn DeWall speaks with Heather Rosenfeld, a Crestcom franchise owner celebrating 20 years of leadership development experience.

Heather’s perspective is grounded in real-world application. Over two decades, she has worked with leaders across industries, generations, and shifting workplace norms. Her insights reveal not only how leadership has changed, but also what leaders must do to remain effective today.

Meet Heather RosenfeldHeather Rosenfeld is a Crestcom franchise owner and Area Representative serving the Massachusetts market since 2005. Originally from the United Kingdom, Heather built her early career working with diverse teams before transitioning into leadership development in the United States.

In her 20 year tenure with Crestcom, she has facilitated hundreds of leadership workshops, helping leaders move from task-focused management to people-centered leadership. Heather believes leadership development is a lifelong journey — one that shapes both professional success and personal growth.

How Leadership Has Changed Over the Last 20 YearsOver the past two decades, leadership expectations have shifted in fundamental ways. Changes in workforce dynamics, communication norms, and employee expectations have reshaped how leaders are expected to show up every day. In this episode, Heather and Jenn discuss how the core responsibility of leadership remains the same, but how leaders achieve results has evolved significantly.

From Authority-Based Leadership to EngagementTwenty years ago, leadership often relied on hierarchy and authority. Leaders gave instructions, and teams were expected to follow.

Today, effective leadership looks very different. Heather explains that modern leaders must focus on engagement, collaboration, and shared purpose. Employees want to understand how their work matters and how they contribute to outcomes. Leadership has shifted from control to connection.

Leadership in an Era of Constant ChangeChange has always existed in organizations, but the pace has accelerated dramatically. Technology, market shifts, and evolving workforce expectations mean leaders are navigating overlapping changes rather than isolated ones.

Heather highlights that while change is faster, human reactions to change remain the same. Leaders must recognize resistance, provide support, and guide people through uncertainty with empathy and clarity.

Managing a Multigenerational WorkforceOne of the biggest leadership shifts over the past 20 years is generational diversity. Leaders today may be working with up to five generations at once, each with different communication styles, motivations, and expectations.

Heather emphasizes that successful leadership requires self-awareness and adaptability. There is no single leadership style that works for everyone. Leaders must learn to bring different perspectives together while fostering alignment and trust.

What’s Still the Same: Leadership Is Still About PeopleDespite advances in technology and changes in work structure, one truth remains constant: leadership is about people.

Heather stresses the importance of trust, listening, and meaningful connection. Email and messaging tools may improve efficiency, but they do not replace human interaction. Trust is built through conversations, curiosity, and consistent engagement, not just transactions.

4 Leadership Lessons From 20 Years of ExperienceIn this episode, Heather shared four clear leadership lessons she has learned over the last two decades:

1. Maintain a Teachable AttitudeLeaders who thrive remain open to learning. A growth mindset allows leaders to adapt, reflect, and improve rather than resist change.

2. Listen With IntentionLeadership effectiveness increases when leaders listen more than they speak. Asking questions and staying curious builds stronger relationships and better outcomes.

3. Set Clear ExpectationsMany leadership challenges stem from unspoken assumptions. Clear norms around communication, technology use, and collaboration reduce friction and confusion.

4. Lead the Whole PersonLeadership development impacts more than performance. The skills leaders build at work influence confidence, relationships, and decision-making beyond the workplace.

Continue the ConversationLeadership growth does not happen in isolation. If Heather’s perspective resonated with you and sparked reflection on how your own leadership has evolved (or needs to), this is an opportunity to keep the conversation going. Be sure to listen to the full episode to get all of Heather’s insights!

You can connect with Heather Rosenfeld on LinkedIn to follow her insights, engage in leadership conversations, and learn more about the work she does supporting leaders and organizations through meaningful development.

If you are exploring what leadership development could look like for your team, Crestcom also offers a complimentary two-hour Leadership Skills Workshop designed to introduce practical tools leaders can apply immediately.

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As a new year begins, many leaders feel pressure to move faster, set bigger goals, and accomplish more. Calendars fill quickly. Expectations rise. The pace rarely slows.

But what if becoming a better leader starts with doing the opposite?

In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit, host Jenn DeWall is joined by entrepreneur and CEO Jordan Peace to explore how stillness can improve leadership clarity, decision-making, and connection. Their conversation challenges the belief that constant motion leads to better results and offers leaders a practical habit that supports long-term effectiveness.

Meet Jordan Peace, CEO and Founder of FringeJordan Peace is the CEO and co-founder of Fringe, a husband, and a father of five. He describes himself as an ADHD entrepreneur navigating the realities of leadership, family life, and business growth at the same time.

Jordan is also the author of an upcoming book titled Stop, which challenges modern addiction to speed, distraction, and hustle. His work focuses on helping leaders rediscover stillness, presence, and meaning in both their professional and personal lives.

Rather than positioning himself as an expert who has everything figured out, Jordan openly shares that his interest in stillness stems from necessity. Like many leaders, he has experienced what happens when life moves too fast for reflection.

Why Leaders Struggle to Slow DownMost leaders understand the value of slowing down. Yet few actually do it.

Jordan explains that over-scheduling, constant communication, and endless task lists have become the norm. Leaders move quickly from one decision to the next without pausing to reflect, process, or connect.

One reason stillness feels uncomfortable is that it forces leaders to feel. Without distractions, emotions surface. Stress, frustration, fear, or uncertainty become harder to ignore. For many high performers, staying busy becomes a way to avoid those feelings altogether.

The cost of avoiding stillness shows up in leadership behavior. Leaders react instead of respond. They assume intent. They miss nuance. Over time, this creates unnecessary conflict, weakens trust, and strains relationships at work and at home.

Stillness, Jordan argues, creates space to think more clearly and see situations with greater perspective.

How Stillness Improves Leadership ClarityWhen leaders move too fast, decisions often become reactive. There is little room to consider context, explore alternatives, or seek understanding. Stillness slows the moment just enough to allow clarity to emerge.

Jordan shares that slowing down helps leaders recognize the gray areas that are often missed in high-pressure environments. It supports better listening, stronger empathy, and more thoughtful problem-solving.

This habit is especially important in leadership roles where decisions affect people, culture, and long-term outcomes. Taking time to pause reduces unnecessary tension and helps leaders respond with intention rather than impulse.

A Simple Stillness Practice Leaders Can Start TodayStillness does not require hours of meditation or a complicated routine. Jordan emphasizes that the practice can be simple and accessible.

He recommends starting with three steps:

1. Choose a new physical space that is not associated with work or tasks
2. Leave your phone behind to remove interruptions
3. Bring only a pen and paper

The goal is not productivity. There is no agenda or checklist.

A helpful starting prompt is simple:

What am I feeling right now?

Not busy. Not overwhelmed. Actual emotions such as frustration, fear, hope, or gratitude.

This question helps leaders move thoughts out of their heads and into awareness. Over time, it builds self-awareness and emotional intelligence, both essential leadership skills.

How To Slow Down and Lead Better at WorkPracticing stillness strengthens leadership in practical ways.

Leaders who slow down are more likely to:

• Listen with intention
• Navigate conflict with clarity
• Build trust through presence
• Make better decisions under pressure
• Lead with empathy and consistency

Stillness is not about doing less permanently. It is about creating the space needed to lead well.

As Jordan explains, leaders are often forced to step back due to burnout, illness, or crisis. Choosing stillness earlier helps prevent those outcomes and supports sustainable leadership over time.

Learn More From Jordan PeaceTo continue exploring Jordan’s work on stillness, leadership, and intentional living, you can follow and connect with him online.

Jordan regularly shares insights on leadership, entrepreneurship, and navigating a fast-paced world with greater clarity and presence.

• Connect with Jordan Peace on LinkedIn
• Check out the How People Work podcast
• Be on the lookout for his upcoming book, Stop

Start the Year With a Stronger Leadership HabitStillness is a leadership habit that supports focus, connection, and long-term performance. It helps leaders show up with clarity and intention in an environment that rarely slows down on its own.

To hear the full conversation with Jordan Peace, listen to this episode of The Leadership Habit and explore how stillness can strengthen the way you lead.

If you want hands-on support in building leadership habits that improve communication, accountability, and decision-making, Crestcom can help.

Request a complimentary two-hour leadership workshop at:👉 https://crestcom.com/freeworkshop

Sometimes, the most powerful step a leader can take is to pause, reflect, and choose their next move with intention.

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As we close out a strong year for The Leadership Habit Podcast, we are revisiting three standout conversations that resonated most with listeners. These episodes sparked reflection, challenged assumptions, and gave leaders practical ideas they could use right away. This final post in our Best of 2025 series features a topic that matters in every workplace: trust.

In this episode, host Jenn DeWall sits down with executive coach and culture strategist Andrea Wanerstrand to explore what it really takes to build trust in leadership. Their focus is refreshingly practical. Trust is not built through big speeches or one-time gestures. It is built through consistency in how leaders communicate, make decisions, and show up day after day.

Andrea explains how inconsistency can create uncertainty and stress, even when leaders have good intentions. She introduces a simple leadership framework centered on Authenticity, Autonomy, and Accountability. Together, these behaviors help leaders create clarity, reduce fear-based reactions, and strengthen team performance over time.

This episode is a strong reminder that trust is not a soft skill. It is a performance driver. When leaders lead with consistency, teams feel safer, communication improves, and people are more willing to take ownership and contribute ideas.

We are grateful for the conversations we had in 2025 and excited to bring more fresh voices and real-world leadership insights in 2026. Until then, this episode is a powerful one to revisit if you want to lead with more clarity, confidence, and credibility.

Listen to the Best of 2025 episode: The Secret to Building Trust in Leadership with Andrea Wanerstrand

Ready to strengthen trust in your team? Request a complimentary two-hour leadership workshop at crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

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Best of 2025: Emotional Intelligence Still Matters in the Age of AI with Caroline StokesAs we close out a strong year for The Leadership Habit Podcast, we are revisiting three of the most impactful conversations from 2025. These episodes challenged conventional thinking, encouraged deeper reflection, and offered leaders practical insight for navigating change. Our Best of 2025 series brings these standout conversations back as we look ahead to new voices and ideas in 2026.

The second episode in this series features leadership strategist and author Caroline Stokes. In Emotional Intelligence Still Matters in the Age of AI, Caroline explores the mindset shifts leaders must make to remain effective in a world shaped by artificial intelligence, climate disruption, and societal change.

This conversation challenges outdated leadership models that prioritize speed and scale over emotional awareness. Caroline explains why emotional intelligence, radical listening, and trauma-aware leadership are not optional skills but core capabilities for leading in a polycrisis era. As technology reshapes work, leaders must focus just as much on how people experience change as on the change itself.

Revisiting this episode is a timely reminder that the most future-ready leaders are those who combine adaptability with empathy and clarity. Rather than resisting uncertainty, Caroline encourages leaders to meet it with curiosity, courage, and a willingness to rethink how leadership systems are designed.

We look forward to sharing more conversations with innovative and forward-thinking leaders in 2026. Until then, this episode remains one of the most important discussions of the year for leaders preparing for what comes next.

Listen to the Best of 2025 episode: Emotional Intelligence Still Matters in the Age of AI with Caroline Stokes

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Make a Purpose Pivot in the New YearAs we wrap up another incredible year on The Leadership Habit Podcast, we are revisiting three of our most impactful conversations from 2025. These episodes sparked reflection, inspired change, and created real momentum for leaders across industries. To celebrate the year, we are launching a short series called Best of 2025.

Our first featured episode returns to a listener favorite: How to Make a Purpose Pivot: Finding Balance and Fulfillment with Melissa Gonzalez. In this conversation, Melissa shares how leaders can step back, realign their energy, and redefine what meaningful success looks like. Her insights continue to resonate, especially during moments of transition and year-end reflection.

This replay is the perfect reminder that leadership growth often begins with a pause. As you prepare for the year ahead, Melissa Gonzalez offers a powerful guide for reconnecting with intention and building a more balanced approach to work and life.

We look forward to bringing even more innovative voices and fresh perspectives to The Leadership Habit Podcast in 2026. Until then, enjoy this standout episode and revisit the ideas that shaped our conversations this year.

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Conflict is part of being human, but many leaders still struggle to approach difficult conversations in a healthy, productive way. Whether it shows up as tension on a team, discomfort around identity-based issues, or uncertainty about when to speak up, many professionals have never been given the tools to navigate conflict with confidence.

In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall speaks with Dr. Jen Fry, a social justice educator, speaker, and researcher who helps individuals and organizations understand how identity, communication, and power dynamics shape the way we engage with one another. Through her deeply practical and accessible approach, she shows leaders how to build stronger relationships, develop healthy boundaries, and embrace conflict as an opportunity for growth.

Meet Dr. Jen Fry, Conflict Literacy ExpertDr. Jen Fry is the founder of JenFryTalks, a social justice education firm that works with organizations, teams, and leaders to help them better understand race, identity, conflict, and communication. With a background in collegiate athletics, a doctorate focused on social justice and higher education, and years of experience coaching leaders through difficult conversations, Dr. Fry brings a grounded and approachable style to complex topics. She has worked with companies, universities, and sports organizations across the country, helping people understand how identity shows up in everyday interactions and how to communicate compassionately, directly, and effectively. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, ESPN, NPR, and other major outlets.

Why Conflict Is Necessary for GrowthMany professionals have been conditioned to think of conflict as something to avoid. Dr. Fry challenges this belief by explaining that conflict is not inherently harmful. It is simply a signal that something needs attention. When handled with clarity and care, conflict creates opportunities to repair, improve, and deepen relationships.

She explains that conflict avoidance often comes from fear. People fear being misunderstood, disliked, or labeled as difficult. As a result, they gloss over issues that need to be addressed, causing those small moments to grow into long-term resentment. Healthy conflict, on the other hand, creates space for honesty, accountability, and trust.

Dr. Fry emphasizes that leaders must get comfortable being uncomfortable. Growth requires willing participation in conversations that may feel awkward or tense. By learning to name what is happening, set appropriate boundaries, and stay present in the moment, leaders can strengthen their teams and reduce long-term friction.

Understanding the Role of IdentityManaging conflict requires understanding your own identity and how it shapes how you show up. Dr. Fry encourages leaders to consider how their lived experiences, cultural background, and social identity shape their lens.

For example, someone who grew up in a family that avoided conflict may naturally default to silence. Someone who learned early in life that speaking up had negative consequences may hesitate to voice concerns. Someone who carries marginalized identities may navigate conversations with stakes or risks different from those of colleagues who hold more privilege.

Recognizing these influences is not about judgment. It is about awareness. When leaders understand their own communication patterns, they can approach conflict more intentionally instead of reacting from old habits.

Why Boundaries Are EssentialOne of the most powerful messages from Dr. Fry is that boundaries are not barriers. They are tools for clarity, safety, and mutual respect. Boundaries allow individuals to say what they need, articulate what is not acceptable, and protect their emotional and psychological well-being.

Dr. Fry explains that many people struggle with boundaries because they confuse them with ultimatums. Boundaries are not threats. They are statements about what you can and cannot manage. For example:

• I can talk about this issue, but I need a few hours to process it first.
• I want to resolve this, but I cannot do that while being interrupted.
• I am willing to listen, but I will not participate if the conversation becomes disrespectful.

Healthy boundaries help teams function more effectively. They reduce assumptions, prevent miscommunication, and build trust.

Intent Versus ImpactAnother key insight Dr. Fry highlights is the difference between intent and impact. Good intentions do not erase harm. Leaders often justify their actions by explaining what they meant rather than acknowledging the other person’s experience.

Dr. Fry recommends focusing on impact first. When someone is hurt, the priority is to understand the harm, take responsibility where appropriate, and repair the relationship. This approach builds credibility and strengthens team cohesion.

How to Approach Difficult Conversations More EffectivelyThroughout the episode, Dr. Fry shares practical strategies leaders can use to navigate challenging conversations with more skill and confidence. A few include:

• Pause before reacting. Ground yourself in the moment.
• Get curious instead of defensive. Ask questions that help you understand the other person’s perspective.
• Avoid assumptions. Seek clarity instead of filling in the gaps.
• Focus on the behavior, not the person. Naming specific actions reduces blame and opens space for problem-solving.
• Practice reflective listening. Repeat back what you hear to ensure mutual understanding.

These simple practices can shift even the most tense conversation into a constructive one.

Why Emotional Regulation MattersDr. Fry emphasizes that leaders must learn to regulate their emotions during conflict. This includes being aware of physiological responses such as tension, increased heart rate, or defensive body language. Emotional regulation allows leaders to stay present, think clearly, and communicate intentionally.

She encourages leaders to develop a toolkit of grounding strategies. These may include mindful breathing, taking a brief pause, writing down thoughts before responding, or seeking support from a trusted colleague. Emotional regulation is not about suppressing feelings. It is about creating enough space to respond thoughtfully instead of reacting automatically.

Where to Find More From Dr. Jen Fry Read her book: I Said No: How to Have a Backbone and Boundaries Without Being a Jerk * Visit her website: jenfrytalks.com * LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jenfrytalks*

The Crestcom ConnectionAt Crestcom, effective leadership requires courage, clarity, and the ability to navigate conflict with compassion. Our leadership development programs help leaders build the self-awareness, communication skills, and emotional intelligence needed to create strong, inclusive teams. Participants learn how to have difficult conversations, set healthy boundaries, and build environments where people feel respected and heard.

These skills are essential for building trust and driving meaningful results. When leaders approach conflict with intention and care, they create cultures that are resilient, collaborative, and aligned.

Take the Next StepListen to the full episode with Dr. Jen Fry to learn how you can navigate conflict more confidently and strengthen your leadership presence.

To bring these concepts to your team, request a complimentary two-hour leadership workshop at crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

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The latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast welcomes globally recognized leadership coach Will Linssen to discuss how leaders can drive measurable results through better coaching. Hosted by Jenn DeWall, this conversation explores what separates good leaders from great ones and why sustainable leadership growth depends on one crucial shift: moving from know-how to show-how.

Leadership coaching has become one of the most effective ways to enhance results and strengthen teams, especially when paired with comprehensive leadership development programs.

Meet Will Linssen, Executive Coach and AuthorWill Linssen is one of the world’s top executive coaches and the CEO of Global Coach Group. Named the world’s number one leadership coach by Global Gurus and the top coach trainer by Thinkers50, Will is also a Master Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation (ICF), the highest professional designation in the field.

He is a number one Amazon international bestselling author and serves as an advisor to the Harvard Business Review, shaping global conversations around leadership development, coaching, and performance growth. Will’s work has influenced more than 100,000 leaders worldwide through data-driven coaching frameworks designed to deliver measurable impact for leaders, their teams, and their organizations.

Why Leadership Coaching Matters More Than EverLeadership today is harder than ever. Teams are stretched thin, priorities are constantly shifting, and leaders are expected to balance results, engagement, and well-being all at once. As Jenn DeWall noted during the episode, “Being a leader today is challenging. Being a coach is hard, especially if you’re unfamiliar with the tools or best practices within it.”

Will agrees—and he believes much of the problem starts with how we prepare people to lead. “Most people never got any education in people skills,” he explains. “They step into leadership roles without preparation, and organizations just say, ‘Now it’s up to you.’ It’s like becoming a parent with no manual.”

That gap between what leaders know and what they actually do creates frustration, burnout, and disengagement. It’s why many leaders, despite their best intentions, struggle to truly develop their teams or sustain results.

From Know-How to Show-HowOne of Will Linssen’s central insights is that most leaders don’t fail because they lack knowledge—they fail because they lack application.

“Most leaders we work with already know the right thing to do,” he says. “The challenge isn’t know-how. It’s show-how—doing the right things consistently so it impacts the people around them.”

When leaders are overwhelmed, buried in meetings, or constantly reacting to problems, their good intentions don’t translate into meaningful behavior. As Will puts it, “When things heat up, the show-how suffers, and that’s how leadership effectiveness suffers.”

This approach echoes the principles discussed in Crestcom’s Be the Coach They Need training module, which focuses on helping leaders turn awareness into consistent behavior. By choosing just two key areas to improve—and committing to practice those behaviors daily—leaders can make visible, lasting progress.

The Triple Win ApproachAt the core of Will’s method is the idea of a Triple Win—helping leaders grow, improving team performance, and achieving better organizational results simultaneously.

He explains, “We reverse engineer success. We define what success looks like for the leader, the team, and the business, then build a plan to get there.” This data-backed approach has been tested with more than 100,000 leaders worldwide, achieving a remarkable 95% success rate in measurable improvement.

Here’s how the framework works in practice:

1. Choose two leadership growth areas. Focus on the skills that matter most to both the leader and their team—such as empowerment, decision-making, or stakeholder management.
2. Create a business case for change. Show how improving in these areas benefits not just the individual leader but the entire team and organization.
3. Engage coworkers in feedback. Involve team members in providing suggestions and observations about the leader’s growth areas.
4. Implement and measure progress. Use quarterly reflections and pulse surveys to track improvement from the perspective of both the leader and the team.

This process not only creates accountability but also builds shared ownership of the change. “Leadership,” Will emphasizes, “is about co-creating change with coworkers. When the leader and the team work together, performance must increase. It always works.”

Building a Culture of Feedback and AccountabilityEven with a solid process, many organizations struggle with one key challenge—getting honest feedback. Employees often hold back from sharing candid observations out of fear of retaliation or hierarchy.

Will’s advice is simple but powerful: create psychological safety from the start. “Before sending out a 360-degree survey, ask the leader to send an email inviting open and honest feedback,” he says. “When leaders show humility and curiosity, people respond with candor.”

This step transforms a typical evaluation into a collaborative experience. Will adds, “When coworkers see that the leader is serious about improving and that their input is valued, they become part of the change process.”

He also emphasizes combining quantitative data from surveys with qualitative insights from behavioral interviews. This two-part approach provides a complete picture of a leader’s strengths and development opportunities—and helps avoid blind spots that pure numbers can miss.

Will’s approach also reinforces the value of building a coaching culture, where feedback, accountability, and trust fuel performance improvement at every level.

Turning Feedback into Lasting HabitsOf course, insight alone doesn’t drive change—action does. Will recommends that leaders invest about 2% of their monthly work time—roughly four hours—into reflection and implementation. “Five minutes a day and a little discipline go a long way,” he explains.

This consistent, focused effort turns new behaviors into habits that eventually shape culture. Over time, leaders move from conscious practice to automatic execution, and their teams begin to mirror that growth.

Jenn DeWall summarizes it well: “Leadership isn’t about grand gestures. It’s about small, consistent actions that improve how we think, behave, and interact.”

Coaching Through ChallengesEven the best coaching plans face resistance. Some leaders struggle to control emotions, others lose focus or motivation. Will stresses the importance of addressing these issues directly through honest conversation and self-reflection.

“When something goes wrong, ask: what was the impact of my behavior?” he says. “You always have the right to be upset—but it comes with consequences. If you want better results, you have to choose different behavior.”

That mindset—taking responsibility for one’s influence—is what separates average leaders from exceptional ones. As Will notes, “It’s not about perfection. It’s about progress. Pick two things you’re excited to improve, involve your team, and stick with it.”

Creating a “We” MovementPerhaps the most powerful message from the episode is Will’s reminder that leadership is not a solo journey. “Leadership coaching for leaders getting better is actually simple,” he says. “It’s not about more know-how. It’s about show-how. And the coworkers are the holy grail of creating forward momentum—because now it becomes a we movement, not a me movement.”

That shift—from self-improvement to collective growth—is what creates lasting cultural change. When leaders model vulnerability, consistency, and collaboration, their teams follow.

Where to Learn MoreListen to the full episode for all the great insights Will and Jenn have to offer! Then, to explore Will Linssen’s proven approach in greater depth, check out his book, Triple Win Leadership Coaching, available on Amazon and major booksellers.

And if this episode inspires you to strengthen your own leadership skills, Crestcom offers a powerful next step. You can request a complimentary two-hour leadership workshop designed to help your team enhance decision-making, build trust, and increase accountability. Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to get started.

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Every leader faces those moments that can make or break an opportunity. It may be asking for a raise, pitching a big idea, or addressing a room full of decision-makers. These high-stakes conversations require the ability to communicate with confidence!

In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Dia Bondi, a communications catalyst and author of Ask Like an Auctioneer: How to Ask for More and Get It. Together, they explore what it takes to prepare for those defining conversations where trust, influence, and outcomes are on the line.

Whether you’re negotiating resources, inspiring your team, or advocating for change, Dia’s frameworks and insights reveal how to speak powerfully and how to be “absolutely clutch in clutch moments.”

Meet Dia Bondi, Communications CatalystDia Bondi is a keynote speaker, coach, and communications expert who helps leaders and changemakers speak with authenticity and authority when it matters most. Her clients include global brands like Nike, Meta, Salesforce, and Dropbox, as well as entrepreneurs, executives, and athletes seeking to elevate their presence in high-pressure situations.

As the author of Ask Like an Auctioneer: How to Ask for More and Get It, Dia combines storytelling, neuroscience, and negotiation strategy to help people push past fear and unlock their boldest communication potential. Her work has been featured on CNBC, NPR, and Forbes, and she’s known for helping professionals deliver messages that move audiences to action.

Why High-Stakes Conversations MatterAs Bondi explains, high-stakes moments aren’t just about closing a deal or landing a promotion; they’re about leadership itself. These are the situations where your communication can unlock decisions, resources, or opportunities that move your business and career forward.

A high-stakes conversation could be a one-on-one with your boss, a pitch to a major client, or a keynote at a conference. What makes it high stakes is the combination of risk, visibility, and impact. These moments require you to build trust quickly, communicate with purpose, and guide others toward a decision.

“Every high-stakes moment,” Bondi says, “is really an ask. You’re asking for engagement, for a decision, or for action, and how you prepare for that ask determines the outcome.”

The Most Common Communication MistakesIn her two decades of coaching executives, startup founders, and leaders, Dia has seen several recurring missteps that undermine even the most talented professionals.

1. Rushing Through the StoryToo often, leaders jump straight to the solution, listing features, metrics, or data, without slowing down to paint a compelling picture of why it matters.

“The most powerful communicators,” Bondi explains, “don’t just describe a product or proposal. They invite the audience into a vision of what’s possible.”

By taking time to describe the problem, future, and stakes, leaders create emotional engagement and tension that make the solution more valuable.

2. Focusing Only on ThemselvesNerves and pressure can cause people to over-focus on their own objectives, like what they need, want, or fear. But as Bondi reminds us, “communication isn’t just about information transfer. It’s about connection.”

Compelling storytelling shifts attention to the audience: their desires, frustrations, and motivations. When people feel seen and understood, they’re more likely to say yes.

3. Playing Too SmallMany professionals limit themselves by asking for too little. Bondi challenges leaders to “ask big enough that you might get a no.”

This approach, inspired by her experience as an auctioneer, helps leaders stretch beyond comfort zones and uncover what’s truly possible. If you get a no, you’ve found the boundary. If you get a yes, you’ve just achieved more than you thought possible.

Building a Strategic AskBehind every effective communicator is a strategic ask, a clear understanding of what you’re requesting, who you’re asking, and when the timing is right.

Bondi encourages leaders to check three elements before entering any high-stakes moment:

• The Right Ask: Are you requesting something you don’t already have? Don’t waste time asking for permission or support that’s already been given.
• The Right People: Identify who truly influences the decision. Sometimes it’s not the top decision-maker but a trusted ally who can advocate on your behalf.
• The Right Timing: Consider the broader context, including market conditions, organizational priorities, or competing pressures. The right message delivered at the wrong time can still fall flat.

When you align these three factors, your message lands with far greater impact and credibility.

Storytelling Frameworks That Work Under PressureDia Bondi’s genius lies in turning complex communication strategies into simple, repeatable frameworks. Two of her most powerful tools are the Blocker Buster and the Mirror Effect. These tools help leaders craft messages that resonate, persuade, and inspire.

The Blocker BusterThis four-part model is ideal for product pitches or team presentations where you need to frame a challenge and position your solution.

1. Here’s what you want: Identify what your audience values most: growth, efficiency, innovation, reputation, or results.
2. Here’s what’s getting in the way: Describe the blocker or barrier preventing them from achieving that goal.
3. Here’s what I do: Introduce how your idea, service, or proposal removes that barrier.
4. And so…: End with a direct ask or call to action.

This structure builds logical and emotional momentum, helping your audience see you as the solution to their challenge.

The Mirror EffectFor more personal, one-on-one conversations, such as asking for a promotion, budget approval, or collaboration, the Mirror Effect emphasizes empathy and connection.

1. I see you: Acknowledge their goals, pressures, and values.
2. You see me: Share what matters to you and where your goals align.
3. Because of that: Present your ask as a mutual opportunity.

This framework transforms a transactional request into a collaborative partnership. It’s not manipulation, it’s alignment. As Bondi notes, “When you slow down, reflect back what you see in the other person, and connect it to your purpose, you create trust in real time.”

Overcoming the Fear of AskingFear is one of the most significant barriers to confident communication. The fear of rejection or being perceived as too assertive prevents many professionals from speaking up.

Bondi’s advice? Stop waiting to feel neutral.

“The most compelling leaders I’ve coached aren’t fearless,” she says. “They simply accept the intensity that comes with high-stakes moments and choose to show up big anyway.”

Courage doesn’t mean calm; it means conviction. The goal isn’t to eliminate nerves but to channel them into focus and authenticity.

Finding Your Leadership VoiceAt the heart of Bondi’s message is a reminder that technical skill isn’t enough. Accurate leadership communication requires finding your unique voice through the combination of values, tone, and presence that makes you memorable.

“It takes a lifetime to sound like yourself,” she says. “You can master every framework, but your voice is what brings those tools to life.”

Developing that voice takes practice, reflection, and feedback, the same ingredients that make effective leaders.

Where to Find More From Dia BondiWant to learn more from Dia or explore her work on high-stakes communication? Connect with her and discover her latest projects at the links below:

• Visit her website: diabondi.com
• Read her book: Ask Like an Auctioneer: How to Ask for More and Get It
• Listen to her Podcast: Lead With Who You Are
• Connect on LinkedIn

Leadership Through CommunicationAt Crestcom, we understand that communication is the cornerstone of leadership. Our leadership training programs help leaders develop the emotional intelligence and influence skills needed to succeed in high-stakes situations.

Just as Dia Bondi teaches, powerful communication starts with preparation, awareness, and confidence in your own voice. Crestcom participants learn to translate those principles into action and drive measurable results for themselves and their teams.

Step Into Your Next High-Stakes Moment with ConfidenceEvery leader faces moments that test their communication and courage. The key is preparation, empathy, and a willingness to ask big.

Listen to The Leadership Habit Podcast featuring Dia Bondi to discover how you can prepare for your next high-stakes moment and speak with clarity, confidence, and impact.

From handling difficult conversations to inspiring organizational change, Crestcom’s leadership training provides the tools, practice, and accountability leaders need to communicate with purpose and clarity.

Ready to strengthen your leadership voice? Request a complimentary 2-hour workshop to discover how Crestcom can help you and your team master confident communication.

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall talks with Melissa Gonzalez, retail strategist, experiential designer, and author of The Purpose Pivot. Together, they explore how professionals and leaders can reconnect with what truly drives them—realigning their work, energy, and values to create a more fulfilling life.

Gonzalez’s insights go beyond traditional career advice. She challenges the belief that constant busyness equals success and offers a practical roadmap for creating balance, purpose, and sustainable growth. Whether you’re leading a team or navigating your own next chapter, this conversation invites reflection on what it means to live and lead with intention.

Why Every Leader Needs a Purpose PivotMany leaders are running on autopilot—meeting after meeting, day after day—without pausing to ask if their actions truly align with their goals. In the podcast, Melissa Gonzalez explains that a purpose pivot is about stepping back, taking inventory, and asking: Am I creating the life I want to lead?

Her inspiration for The Purpose Pivot came after a personal health crisis that forced her to slow down and reassess her priorities. Through that experience, she realized that wellbeing isn’t something to fit in “after work”—it must be part of how we lead and live every day.

“Wellbeing shouldn’t be a side project,” Gonzalez says. “It deserves equal importance to your career growth.”

The purpose pivot is about moving from busyness to impact—recognizing that filling your calendar isn’t the same as creating value. For leaders, this often means shifting from the mindset of doing more to doing what matters most.

Overcoming the Challenge of Prioritizing WellbeingDespite knowing the importance of rest and reflection, many high achievers still struggle to prioritize themselves. Gonzalez explains that this difficulty stems from how success is often measured—by how much we accomplish, not by how intentionally we live.

She encourages professionals to ask key questions:

• Does this activity energize me or deplete me?
• Am I working out of obligation or genuine purpose?
• What would happen if I made space for reflection instead of rushing to the next task?

In her book, Gonzalez includes an exercise where readers list what energizes them versus what drains them. This simple reflection often reveals patterns—time spent on tasks that deplete energy far outweighs the time spent on what brings joy or motivation.

Taking time to reflect doesn’t slow progress—it fuels it. By giving yourself permission to pause, you create mental clarity, emotional balance, and stronger decision-making capacity.

Building Trust in Yourself and Your TeamAs Gonzalez explains, purpose-driven leadership is rooted in trust—trust in others and trust in yourself.

Many leaders resist delegating because they fear losing control or worry others won’t deliver at the same level. This lack of trust leads to burnout and exhaustion. True leadership, Gonzalez says, involves trusting your team to rise to the occasion while also trusting that you don’t have to carry everything alone.

Jenn and Melissa also discuss self-trust, which can be even harder to cultivate. Self-trust means believing that you’ve prepared enough, done enough, and can let go when necessary. It’s recognizing when additional effort will no longer change the outcome and giving yourself grace to rest.

Learning to delegate and release control not only improves wellbeing—it helps leaders model healthy behavior for their teams. When leaders demonstrate balance and confidence, others feel permission to do the same.

How to Make Your Own Purpose PivotMaking a purpose pivot isn’t about quitting your job or overhauling your life overnight. It’s about intentionally adjusting how you spend your time and energy so that your daily actions reflect your long-term goals.

Melissa Gonzalez outlines several strategies to begin this journey:

1. Pause and Reflect. Schedule moments of quiet to check in with yourself. Reflection is not a luxury—it’s the foundation for clarity and creativity.
2. Define Your Why. As Simon Sinek famously said, knowing your “why” brings direction and motivation. Identify what excites you and where you feel most fulfilled.
3. Set Boundaries. Protect time for thinking, rest, and relationships. Saying no to what doesn’t align is an act of leadership.
4. Celebrate Small Wins. Break large goals into milestones—25%, 50%, 75%—and celebrate each one. Progress builds confidence and momentum.
5. Trust the Process. Growth takes time. Learn to let go of perfection and embrace progress instead.

A purpose pivot is not about doing everything—it’s about focusing on what’s most meaningful.

The Power of Reflection and RecalibrationOne of the most powerful lessons from The Purpose Pivot is the importance of reflection. Gonzalez reminds us that most leaders don’t stop long enough to acknowledge how far they’ve come. Without reflection, progress can feel invisible, leaving even accomplished professionals feeling stuck or unfulfilled.

By pausing to celebrate small achievements, you reinforce your sense of purpose and prevent burnout. Gonzalez also emphasizes that transitions are recalibration moments—opportunities to reassess what’s working and what needs to change. Whether you’re starting a new role, leading a new team, or entering a new phase of life, these transitions offer a chance to adjust, grow, and realign.

Where to Find More From Melissa Gonzalez* Visit MelissaGonzalez.com * Connect on LinkedIn * Buy her book: The Purpose Pivot

Leadership Growth Through Purpose: The Crestcom ConnectionAt Crestcom, we believe that the most effective leaders combine professional competence with personal awareness. Leadership isn’t just about achieving results—it’s about understanding yourself and guiding others with purpose, empathy, and authenticity.

Crestcom’s leadership training programs are designed to help leaders make their own purpose pivot. Through monthly learning experiences, practical action plans, and accountability coaching, participants learn to balance ambition with wellbeing—creating teams that thrive on trust, collaboration, and continuous growth.

Like Melissa Gonzalez’s message, Crestcom’s approach to leadership development centers on reflection and application. Leaders are encouraged to identify what energizes them, build emotional intelligence, and focus on meaningful impact instead of mere activity. The result is not just better leaders—but stronger organizations and healthier workplace cultures.

Take the First Step Toward Purpose-Driven LeadershipA purpose pivot isn’t a one-time event—it’s an ongoing practice of alignment between your values, goals, and actions. As Melissa Gonzalez reminds us, success isn’t about how much you do, but about how intentionally you live and lead.

Listen to the full episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast featuring Melissa Gonzalez to discover how to make your own purpose pivot and begin leading with clarity and confidence.

Ready to explore your own leadership journey? Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop and request a complimentary leadership workshop for your team!

Frequently Asked Questions What is a purpose pivot? A purpose pivot is a moment when you pause, reflect, and realign your career or leadership approach to better match your values and long-term goals.

How can leaders balance success and wellbeing? By redefining productivity, setting boundaries, delegating effectively, and prioritizing self-care alongside professional achievement.

Why does self-trust matter in leadership? Self-trust allows leaders to make confident decisions, delegate without guilt, and recover from setbacks with resilience.

How can Crestcom help me grow as a purpose-driven leader? The Crestcom L.E.A.D.R. program helps leaders develop emotional intelligence, communication skills, and self-awareness through experiential learning and accountability.

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On the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with aviation executive, trailblazer, and author Stephanie Chung to discuss one of the biggest challenges leaders face today: how to lead people who are not like them.

Stephanie is the author of the new book Ally Leadership: How to Lead People Who Are Not Like You, which provides a practical framework for leaders who want to get the best results from diverse teams. In this episode, she shares her philosophy of Ally Leadership and explains why learning how to lead people across differences is not just about diversity, equity, and inclusion—it is about return on investment.

Meet Stephanie ChungStephanie Chung began her aviation career working at Boston Logan Airport, parking planes and handling luggage. From there, she rose through the ranks, becoming a top sales executive, then moving into private aviation, where she eventually sold and oversaw the sales of private jets.

Her career milestones include becoming the first Black person in U.S. history to lead a major private aviation company as President of JetSuite. She later became the founding Chief Growth Officer at Wheels Up, helping take the company public—the first private jet company in the United States to do so. Today, she is an international bestselling author, keynote speaker, board member, and coach to Fortune 500 executives.

Stephanie has also been named to the Ebony Power 100 list and recognized as one of the top 500 CEOs by the respected consultancy YPO. Her journey reflects not only professional success but also resilience, courage, and a commitment to helping leaders everywhere learn how to lead people across differences through the practice of Ally Leadership.

Why Leading People Who Are Not Like You MattersModern workplaces are changing faster than ever. Stephanie explains that today’s leaders face challenges never seen before. “If you are a leader worth your salt, your job is to make sure that you get the best people in the best position to get the best result. That’s the job of a leader.”

What makes that more challenging now is the sheer range of diversity within the workforce. As Stephanie describes, six generations are now working side by side—from Boomers to Gen Z. Gender dynamics have shifted, and ethnic and cultural diversity is increasing. Organizations are more aware of the contributions from LGBTQ+ professionals and neurodiverse employees.

This variety of backgrounds and perspectives can lead to misunderstandings if leaders rely on a one-size-fits-all approach. But when leaders embrace differences, the benefits are measurable. “Diverse teams are 35% more productive, diverse teams have a 70%… more likely to actually be more innovative, and diverse teams are 36% more profitable.”

The takeaway is clear: learning how to lead people who are not like you is no longer optional. It is a requirement for leaders who want to deliver results.

The Ally FrameworkAt the heart of Stephanie’s philosophy is her book Ally Leadership: How to Lead People Who Are Not Like You. She defines Ally Leadership as the ability to create trust, curiosity, and action in diverse environments.

The ALLY framework is simple but powerful:

• Ask – Leaders must ask thoughtful questions and avoid assuming they know what their team needs.
• Listen – Active listening is more than waiting for your turn to speak. It requires paying attention to what is said and what is not said.
• Learn – By asking and listening, leaders naturally learn. This learning helps them adapt and grow.
• You Take Action – Learning without action accomplishes nothing. Ally leaders follow through and implement change.

“That’s the secret sauce here to getting the result out of your people”, Stephanie explained.

By practicing Ally Leadership, leaders build stronger relationships, create safe environments for contribution, and encourage teams to innovate.

The EARN SystemIn addition to the ALLY framework, Stephanie developed the EARN system, a step-by-step approach to building high-performing teams:

• Establish an environment of psychological safety.
• Assure alignment so everyone knows how they contribute to company success.
• Rally the troops around a vision, not just a to-do list.
• Navigate the future by guiding teams through change and challenges.

Stephanie notes that misalignment is expensive and disengaged employees are costly. The EARN system gives leaders practical tools to align teams and build momentum toward shared goals.

Final TakeawaysLeadership is never easy, but Stephanie believes it does not have to be overly complicated. “When you have to have an honest conversation about it… it’s not as hard or as complicated as people have told you it is. Utilize the talents that you have around you because they too have gifts and talents”.

Her advice is clear: stop trying to do it all yourself. By becoming an ally leader, you can unleash the potential of your entire team.

Where to Find More From Stephanie Chung Connect on LinkedIn * Visit her website: stephaniechung.com * Buy her book: Ally Leadership: How to Lead People Who Are Not Like You*

Listen to the Full EpisodeTo hear more from Stephanie Chung, including her insights on curiosity in leadership and building psychologically safe teams, listen to the full episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast.

At Crestcom, we believe leadership is a journey, not a destination. That’s why we offer a complimentary leadership skills workshop for organizations that want to sharpen their leadership practices. In just two hours, you will walk away with tools to improve decision-making, build trust, and create accountability across your team.

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What will it take to lead in the year 2030?

In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Crestcom’s Jenn DeWall speaks with leadership strategist and author Caroline Stokes about the critical mindset shifts leaders must make to stay relevant in a world defined by artificial intelligence, climate disruption, and societal transformation.

From emotional intelligence to radical listening and future-ready leadership systems, this conversation challenges old paradigms and offers a practical path forward. Caroline invites leaders to step into the uncertainty—not with fear, but with curiosity, courage, and the willingness to reinvent themselves and their organizations.

Meet Caroline StokesCaroline Stokes is an executive recruiter, leadership coach, futurist, and the founder of Workplace EQ. She is the author of Elephants Before Unicorns: Emotionally Intelligent HR Strategies to Save Your Company and her most recent book, AfterShock to 2030: A CEO’s Guide to Reinvention in the Age of AI, Climate, and Societal Collapse.

Drawing on decades of experience at companies like Sony and Disney, Caroline now works with founders, boards, and executives to build emotionally intelligent, trauma-aware, and adaptive leadership systems. She has spoken at the World Bank and the United Nations, and her insights appear in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and other leading publications.

Leadership in a Polycrisis EraCaroline begins by identifying the defining feature of our current moment: we’re living in a polycrisis era—an interconnected web of challenges that include AI disruption, climate change, economic instability, and societal unrest.

“We all have to reinvent our nervous system to be able to evolve in this particular age,” she explains. “It means doing it at a much faster pace than ever before.”

This isn’t just about learning new technology. It’s about changing the way leaders show up emotionally, psychologically, and strategically. Traditional models of top-down leadership are no longer effective in an environment where employees are under unprecedented levels of stress.

The Emotional Reality of Leadership in the Age of AIMany leaders today are navigating exhaustion, outrage, and anxiety—right alongside their teams. Caroline explains that many people are stuck in a stress response: fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. She says:

“We’re all pretty much paralyzed in some way to understand and comprehend the challenging environment that we see ourselves in.”

This emotional context cannot be ignored. Whether it’s burnout, distrust, or the rising cost of living, Caroline emphasizes that leadership is emotional and psychological. CEOs can no longer separate performance from well-being. Caroline asks:

“If you haven’t got the basics satisfied, how can you expect people to perform at a high level?”

This is a direct challenge to leaders who try to motivate with perks or platitudes. A free yoga class won’t matter if your employees are worried about putting food on the table.

Why Emotional Intelligence Still WinsEven in the age of artificial intelligence, emotional intelligence remains the most human and most powerful leadership skill.

“AI is not emotionally intelligent. It can’t show empathy. It doesn’t care. That’s still our job.”

Caroline urges leaders to go beyond performative empathy and instead practice radical listening—a deliberate effort to create space for honest feedback, without judgment or fear.

“We’re trying to understand where the themes are, where the gaps are, where the opportunities are… and to put everybody’s ego on the line.”

This shift isn’t about being soft. It’s about being real, responsive, and ready to act on what your team actually needs.

Reinventing the CEO MindsetTo lead through disruption, CEOs must embrace what Caroline calls a “blank slate” mindset. That means letting go of outdated goals and assumptions—especially those tied to unbridled growth. She explains:

“We have left the old paradigm. The past is firmly in the past. We’re in a new paradigm, and it requires us to have a different mindset.”

Caroline explains that growth targets and OKRs rooted in pre-pandemic expectations are no longer realistic—or responsible.

“We’re not going to achieve growth right now. The world that we had previously experienced in previous decades just isn’t happening anymore.”

Instead, leaders should build future-ready leadership systems that reflect current realities. That includes involving employees in shaping new goals, acknowledging the emotional toll of change, and aligning strategies with both performance and sustainability.

Hope Is a Leadership StrategyWith all the uncertainty ahead, is there still room for hope? Caroline says yes—but it must be grounded in reflection, not toxic positivity.

“Hope can only be found once you’ve actually done the work.”

In her book, AfterShock to 2030, she provides CEOs with tools to reflect, reset, and reimagine their leadership approach. The goal is to create transformation—not just for the organization, but for the individuals within it.

“If we don’t have that hope, how are we… It’s very hard for people to get out of bed in the morning.”

Leadership today demands resilience, self-awareness, and a willingness to change. And for those willing to do the work, Caroline believes there is a real opportunity to lead with purpose and make a meaningful impact.

Where to Connect with Caroline StokesWant to learn more from Caroline? Here’s where to find her:

• Check out her website: theforward.co
• Buy her latest book: AfterShock to 2030
• Listen to her Podcast: Aftershock: Leadership for the Fifth Industrial Revolution
• Connect on LinkedIn: Caroline Stokes

Want to Build More Emotionally Intelligent Leaders?At Crestcom, we help organizations develop the soft skills that drive hard results. Our interactive leadership development programs empower managers to lead with curiosity, compassion, and confidence. If you are interested in learning more, get started with a free, live-facilitated leadership skills workshop for you and your team. Click here to learn more: crestcom.com/freeworkshop

Listen to the Full EpisodeThis episode of The Leadership Habit is packed with insight, strategy, and a fresh perspective on what leadership must look like to thrive in the future!

🎧 Listen now: The Leadership Habit Podcast

If you found this conversation valuable, share it with someone ready to lead with purpose in the face of change.

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It’s Not Personal — It’s Generational!Managing a multigenerational workforce is one of the biggest challenges facing leaders today. With five generations working side by side, the workplace is more diverse than ever. From Traditionalists to Gen Z, there are significant differences in terms of values, communication preferences, and expectations.

In this episode, host Jenn DeWall interviews generational expert and keynote speaker Karen McCullough to explore how leaders can build stronger, more connected teams across generations. If you’re looking for insights on leading Gen Z employees, adapting leadership styles, and building trust across age groups, this episode is a must-listen.

Meet Karen McCulloughKaren McCullough is a conference keynote speaker and a generational expert and workplace strategist who helps leaders and teams navigate today’s fast-changing workplace. Her signature message, “It’s Not Personal, It’s Generational,” blends humor, research, and real-world stories to unpack what drives each generation.

With a background in branding and business, Karen shares practical insights that help organizations break down barriers, spark connections, and build cultures that work. She’s worked with top companies across North America, including Procter & Gamble, McDonald’s, and MD Anderson.

The Generational Breakdown: Who’s at Work Today?Karen offers a snapshot of the five generations currently shaping today’s workforce:

• Traditionalists/Silent Generation (1928–1945): Top-down leaders who shaped early corporate structure after WWII.
• Baby Boomers (1946–1964): Built hierarchical organizations and a strong work ethic.
• Gen X (1965–1979): Advocated for work-life balance, often overlooked in generational discussions.
• Millennials (1980–1996): Emphasized empathy, inclusion, and purpose at work.
• Gen Z (1997–2010): Digital natives who expect flexibility, fast feedback, and meaningful work.

“Every generation brings change,” Karen says. “But Gen Z? They’ve been coached by their parents, their podcasts, and their peers. They’re forming their own opinions—and they’re not afraid to expect more from work.”

Coaching Is the New Leadership StyleKaren emphasizes that today’s leaders can’t rely on old-school management tactics. Gen Z enters the workplace with strong values and high expectations—but not always the soft skills or organizational experience leaders assume.

Leaders need to shift from managing to coaching. Instead of giving someone a deadline and walking away, Karen explains, leaders must guide their team through the process, ask good questions, and provide developmental support.

“To be a leader today, you have to be a therapist.”

Companies that invest in coaching skills for managers are more likely to retain Gen Z talent and build resilient, productive teams.

What Gen Z Wants in the WorkplaceForget free snacks and trendy office spaces. Gen Z is focused on:

• Mental health support
• Work-life integration
• Inclusive and values-driven culture
• Daily pay options
• Recognition and a sense of belonging

Karen shared examples of Gen Z employees who leave jobs for small pay increases—or pursue multiple side hustles, including with competitors. These behaviors reflect a desire for flexibility and fulfillment, not just compensation.

One company in Houston that Karen interviewed stands out for retaining young talent. During interviews, they tell candidates:

“We want you here for a lifetime.”

That kind of clarity and commitment from the start sets the tone for long-term success.

Building Trust and Leading with CuriosityTrust is foundational in leading across generations. Karen notes that both sides—leaders and younger employees—often hold skepticism about one another.

Some leaders worry Gen Z will quit after lunch. Meanwhile, young professionals often hesitate to ask questions for fear of looking unqualified. This creates a communication gap that hinders productivity and connection.

Jenn offers a practical reminder:

“When you’re furious, get curious.”

Karen agrees, emphasizing that curiosity and compassion are key to understanding and retaining talent.

If you want openness and engagement from your team, you must create a culture where it’s safe to be honest—without fear of judgment.

The Challenge of Leading a Multigenerational WorkforceBalancing the needs of Baby Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z in one workplace can feel overwhelming. Each group has different communication styles, career expectations, and values. For example, Boomers often value loyalty and structure, while Millennials and Gen Z want flexibility, purpose, and continuous feedback. Without a thoughtful approach, these differences can lead to tension, misunderstandings, and increased turnover.

That’s why multigenerational leadership training is becoming a priority for many organizations. By learning to adapt their style, today’s leaders can bridge the gap, improve collaboration, and create cultures where every generation feels valued.

Keep Learning, Keep GrowingWith AI accelerating change, coaching and emotional intelligence are more critical than ever. Karen’s final message is clear: the future belongs to those who adapt and keep learning.

“If we keep learning, if we become better coaches, if we tap into our emotional intelligence—what harm can it do? It can only do good.”

Whether you’re a CEO, middle manager, or HR leader, embracing generational differences at work isn’t just about retention—it’s about creating a workplace where everyone can thrive.

Where to Find More From Karen McCullough Connect on LinkedIn * Visit her website: karenmccullough.com * Buy her book: Generations Rock * Stay tuned for her next book: It’s Not Personal, It’s Generational*

And, of course, listen to the full episode to hear all of Karen’s insights!

How Can Crestcom Help You Lead a Multigenerational Workplace?

Crestcom can help leaders manage the challenges of a multigenerational workforce! Our leadership training programs equip managers with the tools and techniques necessary to build strong teams, understand generational differences, and create an inclusive culture that works for everyone. Request a complimentary leadership skills workshop to learn how to coach, connect, and retain talent from every generation.

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Leaders know that keeping a team innovative is easier said than done. The pressure to deliver results, stick to timelines, and avoid mistakes can stifle the very creativity that sparks breakthrough ideas. But what if leaders could borrow a proven process from one of the most successful creative teams in entertainment history?

In a recent episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Rob Kutner and John Krewson shared how the Saturday Night Live (SNL) approach to creating sketches can inspire leaders to spark creativity, embrace iteration, and launch winning ideas.

Meet John Krewson and Rob KutnerJohn Krewson is the founder and CEO of Sketch Development Services, a two-time member of the Inc. 5000 list, and a former comedian who even appeared on an episode of SNL in 1997. With a background in both entertainment and software development, John has a unique perspective on how to blend creativity and business strategy.

Rob Kutner is an award-winning comedy writer for The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, Conan, and more. For the past six years, he has taught sketch comedy writing at Loyola Marymount University’s School of Film and Television. Together, John and Rob co-authored Pitch, Sketch, Launch, a book that applies the principles of sketch comedy to team innovation.

1. Start with a Flood of IdeasOn SNL, the week kicks off with a high-energy pitch session where anything goes. As John described, “This is a no-holds-barred, no ideas are bad ideas brainstorming session.” Around 100 ideas are generated, knowing that only a handful will make it to air.

Leaders can use this approach by creating safe spaces for idea generation where quantity comes before quality. Removing judgment in the early stages gives your team the freedom to think bigger.

Try this: Schedule a weekly 30-minute “idea jam” with no evaluation—just contribution.

2. Iterate Quickly and OftenJohn emphasized that creativity is rarely instant perfection: “The best solutions do not emerge fully formed from the thigh of a great leader.” Instead, they’re the product of steady, incremental improvement.

In business, this is an essential creative leadership strategy. Keep projects small and self-contained so you can evaluate, adjust, and move forward without being bogged down by weeks of sunk effort.

Try this: Break projects into two-week sprints with a review session at the end of each cycle.

3. Create the Freedom to FailRob pointed out that in comedy, mistakes are part of the process: “Freedom to make bad pitches” is a core value. Even seasoned professionals start with “not this, but something like it” ideas to spark the right solution.

For leaders, encouraging failure in early stages prevents fear from killing creativity. Make it clear that less-than-perfect ideas are stepping stones to the winning concept.

Try this: Reward contributions to the process, not just final results. Publicly acknowledge when a “bad” idea inspired a breakthrough.

4. Keep the Boss Out—At FirstReflecting on his own career, Rob shared that hierarchy can unintentionally stifle creativity: “We couldn’t really pitch when Conan was in the room.” Even with a supportive leader, the pressure to impress can limit bold thinking.

Leaders should step back in the early creative phases, then rejoin when ideas are ready for refinement and alignment with business goals.

Try this: Assign a peer facilitator for brainstorming sessions and review ideas as a group later.

5. Stay Anchored to End-User ValueRob also stressed the importance of keeping the audience—or in business, the end user—front and center: “Is this enhancing the desired end user value?” On SNL, the metric is simple: did it make people laugh? In business, your “laugh” is the value your customer receives.

Try this: Define your team’s “end-user value” and revisit it during every project review.

Where to Find More From John and RobYou can connect with John Krewson on LinkedIn, or learn more about John’s work at sketchdev.io and find Pitch, Sketch, Launch on Amazon in print, e-book, and audiobook formats. In the audiobook, you’ll hear sketches performed by a comedy team—bringing their concepts to life in a fun and memorable way. Rob can be found on LinkedIn and at robkutner.com, where he shares his comedy and writing projects.

Bring More Creativity to Your LeadershipCrestcom’s leadership training programs are designed to help leaders apply practical strategies—like the ones shared here—to inspire innovation, strengthen teams, and achieve results. In our interactive workshops, you’ll learn proven techniques to foster leadership and creativity, build trust, and adapt quickly to change. Discover how you and your team can unlock your creative potential—request a complimentary leadership skills workshop today.

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Burnout is more than just feeling tired. It is a signal that something deeper needs to change. In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Crestcom’s Jenn DeWall sits down with keynote speaker, coach, and former attorney Michelle Niemeyer to explore how leaders can prevent workplace burnout by reconnecting with purpose and prioritizing what lights them up.

Michelle spent over three decades in a legal career before hitting a wall. After healing from chronic stress and an autoimmune diagnosis, she now helps professionals and organizations boost resilience and thrive without sacrificing well-being through her framework, The Art of Bending Time.

Why Leaders Need to Model Burnout PreventionOne of the most impactful ways to prevent burnout in the workplace is for leaders to model the behavior they want to see. If managers regularly push through exhaustion, skip breaks, or avoid delegation, their teams are likely to follow suit. Michelle emphasizes that self-awareness and healthy boundaries are not just personal habits; they are leadership skills. When leaders actively prioritize well-being, they create a more resilient and productive work culture. This not only helps reduce burnout in high achievers but also improves team engagement, decision-making, and retention. Here are some key takeaways from this episode:

Key Takeaway #1: Burnout Isn’t Just a Work ProblemMichelle challenges the narrow view that burnout is purely a workplace issue.

“We live whole lives. We’re not a lobotomized person… Everybody has stresses at work, and everybody has stresses at home.”

She refers to the World Health Organization’s definition of burnout as “a syndrome conceptualized as resulting from chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed.” But she adds:

“First of all, I’m gonna tell you not to blame yourselves. Because that definition kind of sounds like it’s your fault and it’s not.”

Instead, Michelle urges leaders to look beyond their job title to understand their deeper emotional and mental needs and recognize the signs of burnout.

Key Takeaway #2: Clarity is Key to RecoveryMichelle’s method for overcoming burnout starts with identifying what truly lights you up. She uses a guided visualization exercise with her clients to uncover moments of joy from childhood and adulthood. These insights are then used to reimagine how work and life can align more closely.

“If you know what lights you up… you can choose to bring those feelings into your day, even if it’s just a few times a day.”

According to Michelle, clarity about personal values and goals is what ultimately creates the conditions for resilience.

Key Takeaway #3: Perfectionism and Pressure Make Burnout WorseBurnout in high achievers is a common phenomenon. In the episode, Jenn and Michelle discuss the unrealistic expectations that many leaders place on themselves.

“You can do anything, but you cannot do everything,” Jenn says. “Your priorities are going to shift on any given day.”

Michelle adds that burnout is often fueled by chasing goals that don’t actually matter anymore.

“Sometimes just taking that weight off yourself—because people just pile on other people’s expectations and goals that maybe don’t fit them anymore… it makes your life very different.”

She describes how many clients carry long-held expectations that no longer reflect who they are or what they want.

Key Takeaway #4: Micro Moments Can Shift EverythingThe idea of work-life balance often feels out of reach, but Michelle believes small moments of connection and joy are powerful tools in burnout prevention.

“You’re not getting it at work. You can make the point of getting it outside of work. You can get it at lunch. You can get it when you stop at the store.”

Jenn agrees:

“It could be like going over and striking up a conversation with my neighbor or maybe just like having a joke or laugh with someone at the grocery store.”

When you are experiencing burnout, finding joy in small, meaningful ways helps shift your relationship with stress. Michelle explains:

“A lot of the impact stress has on us is not really about the stress. It’s about how we perceive the stress.”

Leadership Development That Aligns with PurposeBurnout prevention requires more than wellness tips or time management hacks. It involves developing leadership skills that foster clarity, connection, and a sense of purpose. That’s why Crestcom’s leadership training programs help leaders explore mindset, motivation, and meaningful goals, while learning how to manage stress and lead more effectively. By aligning leadership development with personal values and team needs, organizations can create a culture where everyone has the tools to thrive. Michelle’s work reminds us that thriving leaders build thriving teams.

Connect with Michelle NiemeyerWant to explore Michelle’s tools for building clarity and resilience? She offers multiple ways to stay connected:

• Text CLARITY to 33777 (or follow this link) to access her free clarity exercise and join her community
• Visit her website: michelleniemeyer.com
• Connect on LinkedIn

Her resources include guided assessments, mastermind sessions, and coaching programs that help high achievers prevent burnout and rediscover purpose.

The Connection Between Leadership and BurnoutAt Crestcom, we believe that preventing burnout starts with better leadership. Our complimentary leadership skills workshop is designed to help leaders build trust, improve communication, and work smarter, not harder.

Ready to align your leadership with what matters most? Request your free workshop today

Listen to the Full EpisodeTo hear the whole conversation between Jenn DeWall and Michelle Niemeyer—including a powerful guided clarity exercise—tune in to The Leadership Habit Podcast: How to Overcome Burnout by Aligning with What Matters Most with Michelle Niemeyer.

And if you found this episode helpful, be sure to share it with a friend or colleague who might be struggling with burnout.

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What happens to a business when its founder is ready to step away? Too often, legacy companies are absorbed, shuttered, or changed beyond recognition. But what if there were a better way—one that preserves the company’s culture, protects jobs, and gives employees a meaningful stake in its future?

In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with John Abrams, co-founder of South Mountain Company and author of From Founder to Future, to explore the growing movement of employee-owned businesses. Whether you’re a business owner planning for succession, a leader interested in sustainable growth, or simply curious about new organizational models, this episode is a must-listen.

Meet John Abrams, Founder and AuthorJohn Abrams founded South Mountain Company in 1973 and spent nearly 50 years turning it into one of the highest-scoring B Corps in the world. In 1987, he transitioned the company to a worker cooperative—at a time when there were only a dozen such businesses in the U.S. Today, he’s a leading voice on employee ownership and runs a consulting firm helping others do the same.

“My only goal was to leave the company in the best shape it’s ever been,” Abrams reflects. “And as I look at it now, it’s in better shape than that.”

Employee Ownership Isn’t Just a Trend—It’s a SolutionEmployee ownership isn’t just a feel-good concept—it’s a proven way to address economic inequality, increase engagement, and build more resilient businesses. Abrams highlights the stark economic disparity that has grown over the past few decades, pointing out that at the end of the 1970s, the typical corporate CEO earned roughly 20 times the typical worker’s salary. Today, that ratio is more than 250 to 1.

This widening gap has left many workers feeling disillusioned and undervalued. In contrast, employee-owned companies offer a model where profits, decision-making, and purpose are shared more equitably among employees. Studies have shown that these organizations tend to have higher retention, better morale, and stronger long-term performance. In a moment when Americans are seeking more stability and fairness at work, employee ownership offers a powerful solution.

There’s More Than One Path to OwnershipMany leaders assume that converting to employee ownership means launching an ESOP—and nothing else. But as Abrams explains, there are three primary structures:

• ESOPs (Employee Stock Ownership Plans), which are tax-advantaged and ideal for larger businesses
• Worker Cooperatives, which emphasize democratic governance and are common in smaller organizations
• Employee Ownership Trusts, popular in the UK and gaining traction in the U.S., which allow founders to sell their companies to employees through a trust structure

Abrams urges founders to explore all options:

“There’s no right answer to this. Every business is different. Each has its own culture, its own values, its own aspirations.”

By understanding these pathways, leaders can choose the structure that best aligns with their company’s size, goals, and values, ensuring a smoother transition and greater long-term success.

Succession Planning Is an Urgent NeedAccording to Project Equity, nearly half of privately held businesses in the U.S. are owned by people over the age of 55. That means millions of businesses will change hands or cease to exist over the next 15 to 20 years. Yet most small businesses have no succession plan in place.

Abrams calls this a silent crisis:

“Trillions of dollars will change hands in the coming years, and many of those businesses will close or be sold to private equity. Employee ownership offers another way.”

Instead of shuttering companies or watching their missions erode under new ownership, founders can consider selling to their employees. This protects jobs, preserves local economies, and honors the culture they’ve worked so hard to build. It’s not just succession—it’s legacy planning.

Culture Matters More Than ControlOne of the most surprising myths about employee ownership is that it leads to chaos or a lack of leadership. Abrams flips that idea on its head:

“Employee-owned companies need stronger leadership, not weaker. The key is separating what decisions owners make from what managers lead.”

He also encourages business owners to view every new hire as a potential owner, which shifts how companies recruit and develop talent. Hiring for long-term alignment, rather than just immediate skills, ensures a stronger culture over time.

Culture is one of the strongest predictors of employee engagement, and that’s critical right now. Gallup’s 2025 State of the Global Workplace report shows that only 21% of employees worldwide are actively engaged at work. Companies that create a sense of shared purpose, transparency, and involvement—hallmarks of employee-owned businesses—have a significant competitive edge when it comes to attracting and retaining top talent.

Redefining Growth for a Sustainable FutureMany leaders are pressured to pursue growth for growth’s sake, but Abrams argues for a more mindful approach.

“There’s another word besides growth—and that is ‘enough.’ Sometimes, enough is enough.”

He challenges the notion that success is only measured by expansion or shareholder returns. Instead, he encourages leaders to define growth in terms of depth, not just scale: getting better, not just bigger.

This mindset isn’t anti-profit. In fact, it can lead to more sustainable, values-aligned success. Abrams calls it the “triple bottom line”: profit, people, and planet. Companies that adopt this framework prioritize long-term health, community well-being, and employee satisfaction, rather than pursuing quarterly wins at all costs.

As he puts it, “The ideology of continuous growth… that’s the ideology of the cancer cell.” True leadership means knowing when growth serves the mission—and when it undermines it.

Why It MattersLeadership isn’t just about profits—it’s about purpose and legacy. This episode is a timely reminder that how we structure businesses has a direct impact on employee engagement, community resilience, and long-term sustainability.

As Abrams puts it, “We can all share in the bounty.” Employee ownership isn’t a radical concept—it’s a practical solution for preserving what matters most in business: people, culture, and impact.

Where to Find More from John Abrams Buy his book: From Founder to Future: A Business Roadmap to Impact, Longevity, and Employee Ownership. * Check out his consulting firm, Abrams & Angell * Connect on LinkedIn*

Looking to strengthen your leadership bench or plan for long-term success?
🔗 Request a Complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop

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How can companies improve customer experience in a world where expectations are constantly evolving? In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with internationally recognized customer service expert Lisa Ford to explore how leaders can create a culture that drives customer loyalty, boosts satisfaction, and strengthens relationships with both new and existing customers.

Lisa shares simple ways organizations can provide great customer service. This can be done online, in person, and on social media. Every interaction should add value and encourage customers to return.

Meet Lisa Ford, Customer Service ExpertLisa Ford is a globally recognized customer service expert, keynote speaker, and author of Exceptional Customer Service: A Guide to Delivering Exceptional Service. She created the bestselling video series “How to Give Exceptional Customer Service,” which held the #1 spot in the U.S. training market for five consecutive years.

Lisa has advised major companies, including Pfizer, Viacom, and Kaiser Permanente, and was inducted into the Speakers Hall of Fame in 2002. She currently serves as a faculty member at Crestcom International, where she helps leaders create lasting impact through exceptional customer relationships.

Customer Loyalty Begins with the ExperienceAccording to Lisa, loyalty goes beyond a single transaction. It’s about building a meaningful connection that lasts. Customers may love your products or services, but if they don’t feel valued, they won’t stay loyal for long.

“A happy customer doesn’t just return—they become your advocate,” Lisa explains. “Customer experience is your greatest competitive edge.”

Beware of the Digital DisconnectWhile technology can enhance convenience, it shouldn’t replace human connection. Lisa emphasizes that too many companies rely on chatbots or automated responses, forgetting that frustrated customers still want to talk to a real person. If your chatbot creates more friction than solutions, you risk losing customers. “Customers want speed and convenience—but also the human touch,” she says.

She encourages leaders to find the right balance between automation and human interaction. This is especially important on social media and self-service platforms. It helps ensure customer satisfaction remains high.

Her tip? Combine digital tools with real human support, and make it easy for customers to reach a person when needed.

3 Questions Every Leader Should AskLisa offers a powerful reflection exercise for leaders who want to improve customer loyalty:

1. Where are you hard to do business with?
2. What’s the cost of a small mistake?
3. What is your weakest link?

By regularly reviewing the entire customer journey, leaders can find hidden frustrations. They can fix these issues before they hurt the customer experience.

Hire, Train, Empower, and RecognizeGreat customer service starts with great leadership. Creating a culture of customer loyalty starts with the right team. Lisa emphasizes hiring people with the right attitude, not just skills. Then, invest in training that includes both technical know-how and essential soft skills like empathy, communication, and listening.

And don’t stop there—employees must feel empowered to make decisions and solve problems. Leaders should also take time to recognize great service moments, reinforce the organization’s values, and share real stories of empowered behavior in meetings.

“If your team doesn’t feel appreciated or listened to, they won’t feel empowered to deliver your brand promise,” Lisa explains.

Keep the Customer Top of Mind—AlwaysLisa shares one of her favorite exercises: keep an empty chair in every team meeting to represent the customer. This visible reminder helps ensure that every decision is made with the customer experience in mind.

Where to Find More From Lisa Ford Visit her website: LisaFord.com * Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lisaford1/ * Reach out by email: lisa@lisaford.com * Read Her Book: Exceptional Customer Service*

Bring Great Customer Service to Your Organization

Lisa Ford’s approach to customer loyalty is part of Crestcom’s leadership development program. If your team is looking to improve customer experience, drive customer satisfaction, and retain more existing customers, we invite you to explore our Complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop.

You’ll gain practical tools to build customer relationships, align your team around service excellence, and turn every interaction into an opportunity to create a happy customer.

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What causes a well-intentioned, capable leader to become the kind of boss that leaves employees feeling disengaged or demoralized? That’s the central question of this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. Host Jenn DeWall sits down with Jamie Woolf—CEO of Creativity Partners and former Director of Culture at Pixar Animation Studios—to explore the concept of power blindness and the common derailers that turn good humans into bad bosses.

Whether you’re in a leadership role or aspiring to be, this episode offers an honest and compassionate look at how power, pressure, and blind spots can undermine the very qualities that make someone a strong leader. The good news? With self-awareness and reflection, these behaviors can be corrected.

Meet Jamie Woolf, CEO of Creativity PartnersJamie Woolf brings more than 30 years of experience in organizational behavior and workplace culture. As the first Director of Culture at Pixar, she helped shape environments that nurtured creativity and trust. Through her consultancy, Creativity Partners, Jamie has worked with Google, DreamWorks, Gilead, and other major organizations to develop leaders who elevate teams through clarity, emotional intelligence, and humanity. Her work focuses on bringing more respect, trust, and authenticity into the workplace, starting with understanding your own influence as a leader.

Why Good People Become “Bad” BossesMany “bad boss” behaviors don’t stem from malice but from stress, blind spots, or outdated mental models of leadership. Jamie introduces the idea of power blindness—when leaders forget what it feels like to be on the receiving end of their authority. A simple behavior, like canceling a one-on-one meeting or sending late-night emails, can unintentionally signal disrespect or unrealistic expectations.

Recognizing Leadership DerailersEven well-meaning leaders have derailers—traits that show up under stress and negatively impact their teams. Using the Hogan Assessment as a framework, Jamie explains how a strength like enthusiasm can morph into over-intensity, or how cautiousness can become paralysis. Leaders must learn to recognize when their “strengths in overdrive” are doing harm.

Feedback: A Leadership SuperpowerFeedback can be hard to hear, especially when it challenges how we see ourselves. But as Jamie Woolf reminds us, it’s one of the most important tools a leader has to grow. “It’s our ego—we humans have fragile egos,” she says. “So just take a beat and let your physiology settle. Even the word feedback can trigger a physical reaction.”

Instead of jumping into defensiveness, Jamie recommends slowing down and getting curious. She offers a practical tip: ask yourself, “Where is maybe 5% of truth in this, even if 95% I might disagree with?” That mindset shift allows leaders to stay open without immediately dismissing what’s being said.

Jenn also notes that many leaders hear the same feedback over and over but still act surprised. “It’s wild,” she says. “You likely heard a variation of that feedback from your spouse, your boss, your child—but we still pretend it’s new.”

Jamie adds, “That’s because our strengths, when overused, become our shadow sides. Passion becomes intensity. Caution becomes paralysis. Feedback helps us recognize those patterns—if we’re willing to hear it.”

How to Increase Self-AwarenessSelf-awareness isn’t a one-time realization—it’s a daily practice. Jamie encourages leaders to ask reflective questions often, such as:

• “Have people disagreed with me recently?”
• “Am I talking more than listening in meetings?”
• “How is my stress showing up in my body, and is it rippling out to my team?”

These aren’t just hypothetical questions—they’re a self-check for power blindness.

“Just knowing that by virtue of your title, people are treating you differently is a game-changer,” Jamie says. “If your team meetings are too harmonious or too courteous, that’s a red flag. People may not feel safe enough to tell the truth.”

Before any meeting, she recommends taking a moment to pause and ask yourself, “What’s my intention? How do I want to show up?” That simple practice can help leaders act with more clarity, humility, and openness.

Repairing Leadership MistakesEven the best leaders have bad days, but what separates a great boss from a bad one is what they do next. According to Jamie, it starts with accountability.

“Say you got too defensive or shut someone down,” she says. “You don’t just say, ‘Sorry, I was having a bad day.’ You reach out and say, ‘Here’s how I showed up. I’ve been thinking about what you said. Here’s the gem I found in your feedback, and here’s what I’m going to do differently.”

That kind of repair is what builds real trust over time. “Self-blame is still ego-driven,” she explains. “It’s not about beating yourself up. It’s about recognizing the gap between your intention and your behavior—and then course correcting.”

Jenn sums it up simply: “We all show up as less ideal versions of ourselves. Every single person you’ve encountered does. But growth starts when we admit it and choose to lead better.”

Where to Find More From Jamie WoolfWant to explore Jamie’s work and resources in more depth? Here’s where to connect:

• creativity-partners.com
• Email: jamie@creativitypartners.com

Coming soon: Download the Power Blindness Assessment and watch Jamie’s TED Talk on the same topic.

Want to Become a Better Boss?Leadership isn’t about being perfect—it’s about being aware. If you’re ready to develop your emotional intelligence, enhance your leadership skills, and unlock your team’s full potential, Crestcom is here to help.

Sign up for a complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop where you’ll learn practical ways to build trust, strengthen communication, and improve accountability across your team.

Request your free workshop here.

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with executive coach, speaker, and author Elina Teboul. Together, they explore a thought-provoking and timely topic: how embracing feminine intelligence can transform how we lead. They unpack the concept of balancing both masculine and feminine energies in leadership and discuss how embracing our whole selves—logic and intuition, action and stillness—can unlock higher performance, empathy, and purpose.

Whether you’re a CEO or an aspiring manager, this conversation will challenge your assumptions and offer a powerful framework to lead with greater authenticity and impact.

Meet Elina TeboulElina Teboul is a globally recognized leadership expert and executive coach with a unique career journey. She began her professional life as a corporate attorney at a top New York City law firm before pivoting toward her true passion—understanding what drives purposeful, conscious leadership. She holds advanced degrees in psychology and law from Columbia University and now runs a successful leadership advisory practice in London. Elina is also an adjunct professor at Fordham Law School, a keynote speaker, and the author of the book Feminine Intelligence: Reclaiming Wholeness in Leadership and Life.

Balancing Head and Heart: Masculine vs. Feminine Intelligence in LeadershipThroughout the episode, Elina shares how traditional leadership models have long favored masculine traits—rational thinking, assertiveness, linear decision-making—while often devaluing qualities linked to the feminine, such as empathy, creativity, and emotional intuition. As she puts it, “We are only half human if we ignore the more intuitive, relational parts of ourselves.”

Jenn reflects on her own experience working in male-dominated corporate cultures and recalls feeling like showing emotion made her appear weak. Elina emphasizes that embracing feminine intelligence is not about abandoning structure but integrating multiple dimensions of human intelligence to become whole: “This is not about gender. It’s about energy—and the need for balance.”

The TRUE Framework: A Roadmap to Conscious LeadershipA central highlight of the episode is Elina’s TRUE framework—a simple yet powerful guide to help leaders become more conscious, self-aware, and effective. TRUE stands for Time, Relationships, Uncertainty, and Emotions—four domains Elina believes every leader must master to reach their full potential.

• Time: “The most senior, successful leaders are stingy with their calendars,” Elina says. They make space for thinking, feeling, and aligning with purpose. Blocking time for reflection isn’t optional—it’s essential. Jenn adds, “Even five minutes before a meeting can make a huge difference in showing up with clarity.”
• Relationships: At the heart of great leadership is the ability to build meaningful connections. “We all think we’re good listeners, but most of us are not,” Elina shares. True listening requires setting aside ego, mirroring what we hear, and being open to perspectives that challenge our own.
• Uncertainty: Leadership isn’t about having all the answers—it’s about having the courage to sit with complexity. “Most people default to logic and control,” Elina explains, “but true innovation happens when we expand the space between stimulus and response.” Embracing uncertainty allows leaders to access empathy, intuition, and creativity.
• Emotions: Emotional intelligence starts within. “You have to know your triggers—often rooted in childhood—before you can manage them,” Elina says. By understanding the stories that shape our responses, we can better lead ourselves and others. Jenn agrees: “If you can’t own it, you can’t control it.”

This framework is more than a tool—it’s a call to lead with your whole self. As Elina puts it, “When we ignore parts of ourselves, we limit our potential. TRUE is about reconnecting with our full humanity.”

Leadership Through Balance, Not ExtremesThroughout the conversation, Elina makes it clear that feminine intelligence isn’t about gender—it’s about energy. While traditional leadership models often emphasize masculine traits like logic, assertiveness, and linear thinking, Elina advocates for integrating the equally powerful feminine traits: intuition, empathy, creativity, and connection.

She shares a striking example from her book—a story about Lieutenant Chris Hughes in Iraq, who de-escalated a tense situation not with force, but by choosing empathy and stillness. “It’s a perfect example of feminine intelligence in action,” she notes. “Whether you’re on the battlefield or in the boardroom, that kind of presence changes everything.”

The episode is a powerful reminder that conscious leadership starts with inner work. “You can’t create a values-driven culture if you haven’t done the work to understand your own,” Elina says. And as Jenn reflects, “This isn’t just about being a better leader—it’s about being a more whole human.”

By the end of the episode, Jenn and Elina make the case that authentic leadership begins with self-awareness. Leaders must do the inner work to uncover childhood triggers, understand emotional patterns, and develop the courage to lead authentically. As Elina puts it: “If you ignore parts of yourself, you limit your full potential.”

Where to Find More from Elina Teboul 📘 Buy the book: Feminine Intelligence* * 💼 Connect with Elina on LinkedIn * 🌐 Visit Elina’s Website

Want to Unlock Your Team’s Full Potential?If you’re ready to develop your leadership skills and create a more balanced, purposeful approach to leading, Crestcom can help. We offer a complimentary, 2-hour Leadership Skills Workshop designed to help you and your team improve decision-making, build trust, and increase accountability.

Request your free workshop here: crestcom.com/freeworkshop

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In today’s rapidly changing workplace, leaders are being challenged like never before to create a sense of stability and connection. But what’s the secret to building trust in leadership? In a powerful episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with executive coach and culture strategist Andrea Wanerstrand to explore the vital […]

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In a time of disruption, transformation, and unpredictability, many leaders are wondering how to stay grounded while guiding their teams forward. In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with renowned entrepreneur, author, and futurist Faisal Hoque to discuss what it truly takes to lead through change and uncertainty and […]

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Attracting great talent and keeping them engaged are two of the biggest challenges facing leaders today. It’s no longer just about posting a job and hoping for the best—it’s about clarity, culture, and connection. In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with author, coach, and culture expert Walt Brown to […]

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Uncertain times are a certainty in leadership. Whether it’s economic volatility, organizational shifts, or global instability, leaders consistently encounter a high degree of uncertainty. Today, business leaders must navigate unpredictable complexities while maintaining confidence and clarity. In this timely episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall welcomed CEO Scott Marshall. Tune in to […]

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How to Achieve More by Doing Less In today’s fast-paced world, busyness has become a status symbol. But does being busy actually lead to success? Or are we stuck in a cycle of time poverty that leaves us exhausted and unfulfilled? In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with […]

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The Hidden Forces Shaping Organizational Culture In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Nilanjana Dasgupta. Dasgupta is a Provost Professor of Psychology and founding director of the Institute of Diversity Sciences at the University of Massachusetts Amherst. She is a leading researcher in implicit bias and diversity […]

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On this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Julie Castro Abrams to explore how developmental life stages impact career success. Our needs and priorities shift throughout life, and understanding these transitions can help us make better decisions, set realistic expectations, and align our goals with our values. Whether you’re […]

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Brent Kedzierski to explore the future of work and the increasing importance of human-centric connectivity in today’s workplace. As organizations navigate rapid technological advancements, evolving workforce expectations, and global shifts, leaders must rethink how they design and implement workplace solutions. Brent […]

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall welcomes Heather R. Younger back for an inspiring conversation about self-leadership. Heather has been a guest on the podcast before, sharing her insights on Developing Resilience, The Art of Listening, and The Art of Caring Leadership. In this episode, Jenn and Heather explore […]

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Change is inevitable, but leading through it isn’t always easy. In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Hywel Berry, CEO and founder of Alicorn Learning, joined host Jenn DeWall to discuss how leaders can effectively manage resistance to change and lead through cynicism without losing their sanity! Meet Hywel Berry, CEO and Founder […]

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On this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sat down with Emmy-award-winning writer, director, and experience design architect Topaz Adizes to discuss cultivating deeper human connection—both in and out of the workplace. Their engaging conversation explored the importance of honest conversations, shared humanity, and the questions leaders can ask to create more […]

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall talks with Anders Indset, a renowned philosopher, author, and deep tech investor, to explore the art of presence in a reactive world. Hailed as one of the top thinkers in technology and leadership, Anders shares his profound insights on staying grounded, fostering self-awareness, […]

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Belonging isn’t just a buzzword—it’s the foundation of a thriving workplace. In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with Dr. Beth Kaplan, researcher, storyteller, and author of the upcoming book Braving the Workplace: Belonging at the Breaking Point. Together, they explore what belonging means, why it matters, and how […]

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Randy Gravitt—author, executive coach, and co-founder of Lead Every Day—to explore how leaders can prioritize winning at home. Too often, the personal sacrifices leaders make to achieve professional success lead to damaged relationships and lost fulfillment outside of work. Gravitt’s […]

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Failure isn’t the end—it’s a beginning. That’s the core message from the latest episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. Jenn DeWall talks to Dr. Manu Kapur, a leading researcher on the science of learning and the author of Productive Failure: Unlocking Deeper Learning Through the Science of Failing. In this episode, Dr. Kapur shares how […]

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall talks to Gui Costin, CEO and founder of Dakota, sharing practical advice on building a winning sales strategy and creating a strong workplace culture. This episode is full of tips that any leader, sales professional, or sales rep can use to improve their approach and team culture.

Meet Gui Costin, CEO & AuthorWith over 35 years of experience in sales and leadership, Gui Costin has developed unique practices that have helped Dakota raise over $40 billion for its clients. But Gui’s story goes beyond just numbers – he’s an innovator who’s transforming what it means to build a thriving workplace culture in the world of finance.

As the author of Millennials Are Not Aliens and The Dakota Way, Gui brings new perspectives to sales, marketing & leadership in the investment world. His people-focused approach has led him to build two companies generating $20 million every year by prioritizing what he believes matters most: people.

His “no-policy policy” fosters autonomy and trust, while his talent for engaging millennial and Gen Z workers challenges traditional management styles. Gui’s journey from working in real estate to founding Dakota has given him many insights into building strong company cultures, modernizing sales processes, and adapting leadership styles that motivate and inspire teams across generations.

Putting People and Culture FirstGui Costin’s sales success is rooted in putting people first. “Culture’s about how you treat people…every time somebody comes to work every single day, what kind of experience do you want them to have?” he shared. Costin stressed the importance of a respectful and supportive environment, saying, “We won’t even tolerate bad clients…if they treat our teammates badly, we’ll fire them as fast as we can.” This commitment to protecting employees builds trust and boosts morale.

Costin’s approach shows that consistent actions and values are fundamental in leadership. Leaders who set high standards for how employees are treated create a workplace where team members feel valued and safe. This approach encourages loyalty and dedication — essential for long-term success. Costin’s philosophy proves that a people-first culture isn’t just good practice; it’s critical.

Creating Structure and a Clear Sales ProcessCostin explained that success in sales starts with structure. He advised leaders to write down the sales process and explain the reasons behind each step. “The process at the end of the day is what’s most important,” Costin said. Clear roles, responsibilities, and processes help keep sales reps focused. This structure should be paired with supportive leadership. Managers should ask questions like, “Are you following the process? Talk to me—what’s going on?”

An effective sales process not only improves sales results but also helps team members grow. “It’s all about the connection…and building relationships with people,” Costin said. Leaders should guide their teams to see beyond transactions and focus on genuine connections.

Consistency in following a structured process builds confidence and resilience. When sales reps understand why each step matters, they stay motivated and committed. This clarity also helps them solve problems and adjust their strategies, making them more effective.

Effective Follow-Up and OutreachCostin shared valuable tips on follow-up strategy. He highlighted the need to ask the right questions during meetings to avoid ghosting and miscommunication. “Ask the tough questions while the relationship is warm,” he advised. Clarifying if there’s an opportunity during the meeting saves time and keeps communication clear.

Costin also talked about the importance of authentic cold outreach. “You’re not going to make the sale over email. Just be a human being,” he said. Providing context quickly and clearly, along with a specific call to action, makes a big difference. He warned against vague emails, which can come across as lazy or rude.

Costin emphasized that follow-ups should be persistent but respectful. Sales professionals should focus on long-term relationship-building instead of pushing for quick results. This approach builds trust and leads to more future opportunities.

Adapting to Modern Sales ChallengesSales today require adaptability. “Sales is an emotional game…constantly being rejected by somebody out in the ether who doesn’t know who you are,” Costin noted. Leaders need to help their teams handle rejection by encouraging discipline and consistency. “It’s about 12 to 18 months to fully develop the muscle…but if you stay disciplined, you’ll have more opportunities than you could ever imagine,” he said.

Leaders should also consider that today’s buyers are more informed and selective. Costin advised sales reps to adjust their techniques and use technology to create personalized, data-driven strategies that connect with their target audience. This adaptability ensures that sales professionals can effectively present their product or service in a way that resonates with potential clients.

Using Technology and Data WiselyCostin spoke about how technology can help modern sales. Using tools that provide data and streamline processes allows leaders to target the right clients and improve outreach. Technology can automate parts of the sales process, freeing up time for more personal interactions. “Use data to inform your decisions, but never forget that the human touch is irreplaceable,” Costin said.

Tracking metrics and feedback through technology also helps sales teams refine their approach. While technology can make processes more efficient, Costin reminded leaders to keep genuine connections at the center. A mix of data-driven strategies and personal engagement can set a company apart and showcase its product or service in the best light.

Key Takeaways for LeadersCostin’s main message was to stay thoughtful and empathetic. “Just always be introspective about how you’re treating people and making it all about them,” he said. For leaders wanting to improve their sales strategies, building a clear process, nurturing authentic connections, and focusing on team culture are crucial steps. The goal is to help others succeed while creating a supportive and positive work environment.

Leaders should remember that sales success is a journey. Building a strong team means supporting their growth, promoting respect, and focusing on lasting relationships. With these practices, sales professionals can inspire growth and achieve long-term success.

For those looking to sharpen their sales strategy, Costin’s insights serve as a guiding framework. Combining an effective sales process, compassionate leadership, and adaptability can set any team on the path to lasting success.

Where to Find More from Gui Costin* Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/guicostin/ * Visit his website: dakota.com * Email him: gui@dakota.com

Thank you for listening to The Leadership Habit Podcast! If you want to learn more about Crestcom’s leadership development programs, contact us to schedule a free leadership skills workshop: crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Crestcom host Jenn DeWall welcomes executive coach and bestselling author Deekron Krikorian. Known for his transformative approach, Deekron dives into one of today’s most sought-after leadership topics: maintaining motivation in high-stress environments. Deekron has helped over 200 high-achievers master motivation and health as they pursue their dreams and elevate their careers.

Meet Deekron Krikorian, High Performance CoachDeekron is an executive coach who merges high performance with total well-being. He helps driven professionals and entrepreneurs master their minds, bodies, and lives. Drawing on his experience as a Big Four CPA consultant and startup founder, he developed a whole-person transformation method outlined in his bestselling book, The Nine Shifts. Deekron has been featured in major media like the Washington Post and Business Insider and has worked with top organizations such as Ernst and Young, Accenture, and Proctor and Gamble.

Activating Your Motivation: A Mindset ShiftAt the heart of Deekron’s message is healthy high performance. “For me, it really starts with a healthy relationship to success,” Deekron explains. As a self-described “recovering perfectionist,” Deekron knows how high achievers can push themselves to burnout, driven by external pressures and the need for validation. His approach calls for reframing motivation as an achievable state, starting with small steps rather than relying solely on willpower, which he reminds listeners “doesn’t last very long.”

Imperfect Actions: The Perfectionist’s SalvationDuring the episode, Deekron introduces listeners to what he calls “imperfect actions.” For high achievers, the quest for perfection often leads to burnout. By taking imperfect actions—small steps toward bigger goals—he says, “you build momentum and stay motivated by focusing on progress, not perfection.” This method of activating motivation is simple yet powerful, focusing on reducing the mental resistance that comes with setting overly ambitious goals. Even small actions, like a quick walk or a brief task, can create the spark needed to keep moving forward.

Navigating Comparison and Limiting BeliefsMotivation can often be derailed by comparison, a natural yet counterproductive habit. Deekron points out, “The mind is wired to compare, but that’s rooted in survival instincts. It’s essential to become aware of this habit and redirect focus to what genuinely matters to you.” Building motivation and resilience requires an internal approach, connecting to what he calls the “soul-driven source of inspiration.” For Deekron, inspiration transcends willpower, helping leaders make choices rooted in personal values rather than comparisons.

The Nine Shifts Method for Sustainable MotivationDeekron also shares his Nine Shifts method, which is outlined in his bestselling book. Designed to help leaders transform stress into sustainable energy, the method emphasizes balancing the mind, body, and life. “This framework is holistic,” Deekron says, “covering the mind, body, and your life goals. By starting from within, you can achieve anything externally.” Improved performance comes from focusing on mental health as well as physical health to achieve your goals.

Maintaining Motivation in Leadership: A Call to KindnessOne of Deekron’s final pieces of advice resonates deeply: “Don’t be hard on yourself if you feel demotivated. These feelings are a natural part of how your mind works.” By choosing progress over perfection and focusing on healthy high performance, leaders can unlock a more consistent, compassionate, and sustainable approach to motivation. Through kindness, leaders can create a healthy, high-performance culture throughout their organization, motivating employees long term.

Where to find more from Deekron: * Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/deekron/ * Check out his book: The Nine Shifts * Visit his website:healthyhighperformer.co/

Whether you’re leading a team or pursuing personal goals, listen to the full episode to learn more about Deekron’s proven strategies to overcome self-doubt, reduce resistance, and activate your inner motivators.

For a deeper dive into Crestcom’s leadership resources, including a complimentary workshop, visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

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In a recent episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall had a fascinating conversation with Robyn Bolton, founder of Mile Zero, a consultancy that helps companies drive innovation. In this episode, Robyn shared her insights on how success, while beneficial in the short term, can sometimes stand in the way of innovation within organizations. In this episode, Robyn and Jenn explore how even the best-intentioned leaders can inadvertently kill innovation without realizing it.

Meet Robyn Bolton, Corporate Innovation ExpertRobyn Bolton is the Founder and Chief Navigator at Mile Zero, a consultancy that helps leaders of $100 million companies to use innovation to confidently and repeatedly grow revenue. Robyn has previously worked as a partner at Innosight, a consulting firm founded by Harvard professor Clayton Christensen, and as a brand manager at Proctor & Gamble, where she helped develop and launch Swiffer and Swiffer WetJet.

Robyn holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a BS in Marketing from Miami University. Her articles and perspectives on innovation, intrapreneurship and more are featured in Fast Company, Harvard Business Review Online, the New York Times, and NPR Marketplace.

The Innovation Paradox: Why Success Can Be a BarrierRobyn Bolton has spent her career helping leaders understand why nurturing innovation is critical to long-term success. She defines innovation simply as “something new that creates value.” However, many organizations fail to foster new ideas because they are too focused on what has worked in the past. As Robyn explains in the episode, “You might actually be ruining your long-term success by sticking to what you think makes you great.”

This creates a paradox for many organizations. Leaders who focus solely on what has made them successful in the past may be creating barriers to future growth by discouraging creative thinking. To break through this, leaders must be open to new ideas, even if it means challenging their current methods.

Misconceptions About DisruptionLater in the episode, Robyn and Jenn discuss how many leaders misunderstand the concept of disruption. They often use the term as a buzzword without fully grasping its meaning. Robyn defines disruption as creating something new that may not be as good as what’s already on the market but offers a different kind of value. “It brings new people into the market by addressing needs current solutions don’t,” she noted. For example, Uber changed the ride-hailing industry by making rides available on-demand, a convenience that disrupted traditional taxi services.

However, to successfully implement innovation within organizations, leaders must be willing to take risks and move away from what has traditionally worked. Robyn emphasized that true disruption often comes with uncertainty, and leaders must embrace it rather than resist it.

The Pitfalls of AssumptionsAnother critical point Robyn Bolton discussed was the danger of making untested assumptions. Many leaders believe they have all the answers and proceed based on these assumptions, only to find out later that they were wrong. Robyn cautioned against this approach, stating, “If you act as if your assumptions are facts, you will fail. Either early on or much later, but you will fail.”

Instead of relying on assumptions, Robyn advocates for a more deliberate and methodical approach to innovation. Leaders should engage in regular testing, experimentation, and feedback gathering. By treating innovation like a scientific process, leaders can increase their chances of success and avoid costly mistakes.

How to Nurture Innovation for Long-Term SuccessSo, how can leaders nurture innovation in their organizations? According to Robyn Bolton, it starts with humility. Leaders must be willing to admit that they don’t have all the answers. They need to approach new challenges with curiosity and a willingness to learn. “Bravery isn’t the absence of fear,” Robyn explained, “It’s moving forward despite the fear.”

Successful innovators also know how to create a safe environment where their teams feel comfortable taking risks. Robyn shared how some companies reward employees for their “biggest failures”—not for losing money, but for generating the most learnings that can be used to improve the organization. By shifting the focus away from outcomes and onto the learning process, leaders can encourage their teams to take more innovative approaches.

How to Connect with Robyn BoltonIf you want to learn more from Robyn Bolton and her expertise in nurturing innovation and driving long-term success, you can connect with her here:

• Visit her website at milezero.io
• Connect with her on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/robynmbolton/

Ready to Unlock Your Team’s Innovation Potential?At Crestcom, we believe that leadership development is key to driving innovation. That’s why we offer a Complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop designed to help you and your team enhance decision-making, build trust, and improve accountability. This interactive session is perfect for leaders looking to foster innovation in their organizations. Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to request a free workshop for your team today!

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Derrick Mains, CEO of The Process Fixer and Process Triage, to discuss how leaders can operationalize excellence within their organizations. This engaging conversation dives deep into the processes that can transform business efficiency and offers actionable insights into building resilient teams that thrive in today’s dynamic work environments.

Meet The Process Fixer, Derrick MainsDerrick Mains is the CEO of the Process Fixer and Process Triage. He’s an Emmy award-winning content creator, four time author and optimization consultant renowned for his pioneering work in process engineering, optimization, and transformation. Derrick’s work spans more than 20 years and 250 companies across nearly every industry from early stage companies on through the Fortune 10. He’s authored four books: Adaptagility: Overcoming Biological Resistance to Change, AMP Your Outcome: Management Hacks for World Famous Leadership, The LEAN Manager’s Playbook, and The Frontline Manager’s Playbook. Derrick’s approach blends essentialism with a focus on human-centered system design, emphasizing the need for regular audits, reflection and reinvestment to achieve optimal results!

What Does It Mean to “Operationalize Excellence”?Operationalizing excellence means creating streamlined, effective processes that allow organizations to consistently achieve high-quality results, even during periods of disruption or uncertainty. According to Derrick, the key to operationalizing excellence lies in understanding your processes at every level—from the executive suite to the frontline workers.

“We’ve been living in a time where things have been relatively good, so businesses haven’t had to operationalize,” Derrick explains. “There’s a lot of waste and inefficiency that has crept into organizations. Around 65% of what we call work is actually busy work—waiting, checking, looking for information. We need to focus on improving the flow of work to eliminate these inefficiencies.”

The Four-Step M4 Framework: Map, Measure, Manage, MobilizeAt the heart of Derrick’s approach is his M4 framework, which provides a structured method for driving continuous improvement in organizations. The framework includes four steps: Map, Measure, Manage, and Mobilize.

1. Map: The first step in operationalizing excellence is mapping out your processes. Derrick highlights the importance of visualizing every aspect of the work to identify inefficiencies. “Start with sticky notes on a wall,” he advises. “Once you see the steps, you’ll realize how much can be optimized.”
2. Measure: Next, measure what matters most. Derrick urges leaders to look beyond traditional KPIs and focus on metrics that truly reflect efficiency, such as the number of steps employees take in a day. “We put Fitbits on employees to reduce unnecessary movement,” Derrick shared, “which improved efficiency dramatically.”
3. Manage: Managing becomes easier when you’ve mapped and measured effectively. Derrick emphasizes that mistakes made by employees often stem from poor systems, not poor performance. “In Japanese management, the first rule is that employees cannot make mistakes; it’s always a process issue,” Derrick said. “Fix the system, and you’ll fix the errors.”
4. Mobilize: Finally, once processes are optimized, your team will naturally be mobilized to maintain and further improve them. When employees are engaged in process improvement, they are more likely to take ownership of the changes and ensure long-term success.

The Power of Team-Based KPIsOne of the unique insights from this episode is Derrick’s approach to measuring team performance rather than focusing on individual metrics. As many managers learn, KPIs are only effective if they are measuring the right things. He illustrates this with a story of a manufacturing company that fired an employee for not hitting her KPIs, only to see team performance drop by 30%.

“Janet wasn’t fast, but she kept the team organized and motivated. When they let her go, they lost that crucial team dynamic,” Derrick explains. “Focus on team goals, because a high-performing team delivers better results than a group of individuals working in isolation.”

Reducing Waste Through MeetingsAnother highlight from the episode is Derrick’s critique of time-consuming meetings. “We found that one company was spending 44% of its employees’ time in meetings,” he said. “For every 1% we reduced that, we saved them $100,000 in profit.”

By introducing shorter, more focused meetings, businesses can not only save money but also improve productivity and employee engagement.

A Final Thought: Business Strategy Needs a Pencil, Not a PenDerrick’s closing thought drives home the need for flexibility and continuous improvement. “Run your business with a pencil, not a pen,” he advises. “A pencil has an eraser for a reason—you need to constantly refine your processes. Businesses that adapt will thrive.”

Where to Find More from Derrick MainsThank you for listening to The Leadership Habit podcast! If you would like to find out more about Derrick Mains, you can:

• Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/derrickmains/
• Visit his website: theprcoessfixer.com
• Listen to his podcast: The Process Fixer, with Derrick Mains
• Read his Books
• Attend a webinar: theprocessfixer.com/process-triage-webinars

If you would like to learn more about how Crestcom can give your team the tools they need to streamline processes and deliver real results, you can request a FREE Workshop today! Our leadership experts deliver business training all around the world, so contact us today!

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How HR Leaders Can Prevent Burnout in the Workplace Burnout is an issue that is becoming increasingly prevalent in today’s fast-paced workplace. Employees and leaders alike are feeling emotionally exhausted, overwhelmed, and disconnected, which negatively impacts not just individual performance but the organization as a whole. In this special minisode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall addresses this critical issue, exploring burnout from both a leadership and HR perspective and offering strategies to help reduce stress and improve work-life balance.

The Growing Risk of BurnoutBurnout is more than just stress—it’s the accumulation of unchecked stress over long periods of time, which can lead to burnout and have serious consequences for employee engagement, productivity, and overall health. Jenn notes that “Employee mental health is at an all-time low, and almost 90% of workers have experienced burnout within the past year.” For leaders and HR professionals, recognizing the signs of burnout is essential to addressing the root cause before it leads to long-term damage.

Jenn emphasizes the importance of understanding burnout not just in terms of individual workers but also across teams and entire organizations. She explains that burnout “negatively impacts organizational performance” and warns that “we can’t resolve it if the people who are expected to solve it are also burned out.” This sentiment highlights the crucial role of HR teams in both preventing and managing burnout, yet many HR professionals are themselves at high risk of burnout.

The Impact on HR TeamsWhile human resources teams are often tasked with solving burnout across an organization, they, too, are vulnerable to feeling overwhelmed. Jenn shares concerning statistics: “95% of HR leaders find working in HR to be overwhelming due to excessive workload and stress,” and “81% report feeling burned out.” When HR professionals experience burnout, it compromises their ability to support the rest of the organization. This leads to a vicious cycle where both employees and HR teams are suffering from burnout, creating a ripple effect that can harm the company’s long-term success.

Jenn points out that “HR needs support too” and emphasizes that addressing burnout in HR teams is as vital as addressing it in any other part of the organization. Leaders need to ensure that HR professionals have the resources they need to perform their roles effectively without compromising their own well-being.

Recognizing the Signs of BurnoutUnderstanding the early signs of burnout is key to preventing long-term consequences. Jenn breaks burnout down into five stages, starting with the honeymoon phase, where new employees might still feel optimistic and motivated despite a little stress. However, when stress goes unchecked, it can progress into more severe stages, eventually leading to habitual burnout.

Some common signs of burnout include:

• Emotional exhaustion
• Difficulty focusing
• A sense of hopelessness
• Mood swings and irritability
• Chronic fatigue and poor sleep
• Feeling disengaged from work or isolated from colleagues

Leaders must pay attention to these signs, not just in their employees but in themselves. Burnout can often creep in slowly, and by the time it becomes apparent, it may already be causing significant damage.

Supporting Employee WellbeingCreating a workplace that prioritizes employee well-being is essential for reducing the risk of burnout. Jenn emphasizes that fostering a sense of belonging within teams can go a long way toward preventing burnout. “Workers who feel a strong sense of belonging at work are almost two and a half times less likely to feel burned out,” she explains. When employees feel connected to their team and supported by their leaders, they are more resilient in the face of stress.

Leaders can also reduce burnout by encouraging better work-life balance. Jenn highlights the importance of setting clear priorities, taking regular breaks, and practicing self-compassion. She advises against working through lunch or sacrificing personal time, noting that “your brain actually needs an opportunity to focus on something different.” These small adjustments can reduce stress and improve overall job satisfaction, helping employees feel less overwhelmed.

The Role of Leadership DevelopmentOne of the most effective ways to reduce burnout is through leadership development. Jenn’s experience facilitating Crestcom’s leadership development has shown her how the right training program can give leaders the tools they need to manage their own stress and support their teams. She emphasizes, “Leadership development empowers leaders to take ownership over how their actions contribute to the success of others or the outcomes that they see.”

Leadership development also plays a critical role in improving emotional intelligence, which helps leaders better understand and manage their emotions as well as the emotions of those they lead. By learning how to navigate difficult situations, handle conflict, and build stronger relationships, leaders can reduce stress for themselves and their teams, preventing burnout from taking root.

Jenn explains that leadership development programs like those offered by Crestcom can build resilience in both leaders and employees by providing tools to handle the constant change and disruption in today’s workplace. “Leadership development is one of the best things you can do to support your team,” Jenn says. It’s an investment in both individual and organizational well-being that can pay off in the long term.

A Practical Framework for Overcoming BurnoutTo help leaders and employees address burnout, Jenn shares a simple yet effective four-step framework: Stop, Reflect, Act, and Commit. The key is not to jump straight into action but to take the time to understand what is causing the burnout first.

1. Stop – Jenn encourages leaders to pause and ask themselves, “How long are you willing to continue this way?” Acknowledging burnout is the first step toward addressing it.
2. Reflect – Take the time to reflect on the root causes of burnout. Is it driven by internal pressures, such as perfectionism, or external demands from the organization?
3. Act – Once you understand the root cause, you can take steps to address it. This might involve setting better boundaries, asking for clearer priorities, or learning to say no.
4. Commit – Burnout recovery requires commitment. “It’s not going to be fixed with one yoga class or one therapy session,” Jenn reminds us. Leaders must stay the course and continuously reflect on their progress to avoid falling back into burnout.

ConclusionBurnout is a pervasive issue that affects employees and leaders alike, but it doesn’t have to be inevitable. By understanding the signs of burnout and taking proactive steps to reduce stress, leaders can create healthier, more supportive workplaces. Leadership development plays a crucial role in equipping leaders with the tools they need to navigate stress, foster emotional intelligence, and build resilient teams.

As Jenn DeWall explains, “Leadership development is one of the best things that you can do to support your team.” Whether it’s promoting work-life balance, encouraging employee engagement, or offering support to overwhelmed HR teams, taking steps to prevent burnout can lead to long-term success for both individuals and organizations.

Crestcom offers additional burnout solutions specifically tailored for HR professionals. Explore how you can support your HR team by visiting Crestcom’s HR burnout solutions page.

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In a recent episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with William Vanderbloemen, founder of Vanderbloemen Search Group and author of the upcoming book Be the Unicorn: 12 Data-Driven Habits That Separate the Best from the Rest. They dove into the critical question of how leaders can truly stand out in today’s competitive environment. William shares his experience growing a business during a recession and what he learned about standing out as a leader through intentionality, adaptability, self-awareness and genuine connection.

Meet William VanderbloemenWilliam combines over 15 years of ministry experience as a senior pastor with executive search expertise to help churches and faith-based organizations find key leaders, so he knows a thing or two about what it takes to succeed and stand out. He is the founder and CEO of the Vanderbloemen Search Group, formed after he trained under an executive search mentor and applied top-tier corporate practices from a Fortune 200 company. Williams’s unique background includes rebuilding a congregation in Alabama and serving as senior pastor of Houston’s first Presbyterian church. He holds degrees from Wake Forest University and Princeton Theological Seminary.

4 Leadership Skills You Need to Stand Out at Work1. Be Fast: Speed with IntentionalityThe first habit discussed in the episode is the importance of being fast. Vanderbloemen explains that unicorn leaders respond with speed but also with intention. “The unicorns were uncanny in their obsession with getting back to people,” says William. He emphasizes that it’s not just about being quick but also about being thoughtful in your response. According to a study he references, responding to an inquiry within one minute increases your chances of having a successful phone call by 98%.

This habit can be applied in various situations, from job hunting to everyday business interactions. The key to standing out? Don’t just respond fast — respond thoughtfully, showing you care about the other person.

1. Stay Agile: Adaptability in the Face of ChangeIn today’s rapidly evolving workplace, agility is a must-have trait. Vanderbloemen stresses that the ability to try new things, embrace change, and continuously learn is crucial for long-term success. He remarks, “If you don’t actively fight the atrophy, it’s just going to happen.” This habit requires discipline and a willingness to leave your comfort zone.

Leaders who maintain flexibility will thrive as businesses adapt to technological advancements like AI. Vanderbloemen compares this adaptability to physical agility, noting how, like stretching, it requires consistent practice to avoid becoming stagnant.

1. Cultivate Self-Awareness: Know Your Strengths and WeaknessesPerhaps the most surprising insight from Vanderbloemen’s research is how self-awareness sets unicorns apart from the crowd. “Self-awareness is so rare,” says Vanderbloemen. While many people rank themselves highly in this area, his research shows that most lack a true understanding of how they are perceived.

He notes that seeking feedback and embracing tools like personality profiles and 360 assessments are keys to becoming more self-aware. Self-awareness enables leaders to recognize their strengths and understand their limitations, creating opportunities for personal growth and team collaboration.

1. Intentionality and Connection: It’s All About PeopleAt the heart of standing out is how you treat others. Vanderbloemen points out that unicorns treat people differently—more intentionally, thoughtfully, and empathetically. These human-to-human (H2H) interactions build lasting connections that distinguish true leaders from the rest.

As Vanderbloemen reflects, “The unicorns have habits, not traits. And habits can be learned.” This compelling message suggests that anyone can adopt these habits to stand out, regardless of their natural talents or background.

Be the UnicornWilliam Vanderbloemen’s data-backed insights remind us that standing out in today’s workplace isn’t about being born with exceptional talents or having the perfect resume. It’s about how you show up, how you adapt, and how you treat others. By practicing speed, agility, self-awareness, and intentional connection, you can set yourself apart and become irreplaceable.

Where to Find More From William Vanderbloemen Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/williamvanderbloemen/ * Buy his book: Be the Unicorn: 12 Data-Driven Habits That Separate the Best from the Rest. * Visit his website for more resources: www.vanderbloemen.com*

Thank you for listening to The Leadership Habit Podcast! If you want to learn more about Crestcom’s leadership development programs, contact us to schedule a free leadership skills workshop: crestcom.com/freeworkshop.

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Tonya Kay, Chief Empowerment Officer of Outspoken, to discuss how to stop overthinking, let go of perfectionism and unlock your greatness! If you have ever been stuck in your career journey or struggled with overthinking or trying to live up to impossible standards, you don’t want to miss this episode!

Meet Tonya Kay, Chief Empowerment Officer of OutspokenTonya is a transformative life coach and keynote speaker. She helps high-achieving women break free from overthinking, perfectionism and self-doubt to lead boldly and live authentically. Tonya’s approach blends real talk, practical strategies, and a touch of fun! She empowers clients to conquer limiting beliefs and embrace their full potential. Known for her fearless and unapologetic style — whether on stage or paddle boarding down the Boise River — Tonya inspires others to lead from where they are and build the life that they were meant to live.

What Does Greatness Mean to You? As the episode opens, Jenn asks Tonya what she means when she talks about tapping into your personal greatness. Tonya explains, “We all have a different definition of what that could possibly be, right? And I think that’s the first place to start. Define what greatness is for you. Or maybe you’re not using the word greatness. Maybe you’re using success. Maybe the word is fulfillment. What does that mean for me? And you said something earlier about tapping into those core values, those values that we have. A lot of times we’re just existing in our day-to-day. We may have a few goals that we’re reaching for, but what happens when we feel like we’re not in our greatness is that we don’t feel grounded, aligned or balanced in our space. And the way we can start to do that is first of all, defining what greatness is. And for me, it’s about aligning those core values.”

Embrace Your Values to Discover Your GreatnessOne of the key takeaways from the episode is the importance of understanding and aligning with your core values. Tonya shares her own journey of rediscovering her values after becoming an empty nester and realizing how much of her identity was tied to being a mom. For her, values like love, connection, and gratitude became her guideposts. “When we step into alignment with our core values, then I feel like I’m more of who I was meant to be,” says Tonya.

Many leaders fall into the trap of defining themselves by titles or achievements, which can lead to burnout or dissatisfaction. Instead, Tonya encourages listeners to ask themselves what success means personally. Is it fulfillment? Is it living in alignment with your values? Answering these questions can bring clarity and help leaders step to their full potential.

Leadership Starts with Leading YourselfTonya also connects the idea of greatness with leadership, noting that leadership is not just about managing teams or projects — it’s about leading yourself. “How you lead yourself every day is crucial,” she explains. By showing up authentically, embracing your quirks, and living by your values, you inspire others to do the same.

This message resonates deeply with Crestcom’s philosophy. Leadership development is about more than learning technical skills; it’s about empowering leaders to be their best, authentic selves. When you lead with purpose and authenticity, you create a ripple effect, positively influencing the people around you.

The BIKE Acronym: A Framework for GreatnessLater in the episode, Tonya shares a powerful tool to help individuals stay grounded and balanced. She uses the acronym BIKE:

• B: Be You – Embrace your authentic self, unfiltered and unapologetic.
• I: Insight – Get curious about yourself and others, and seek to learn from every situation.
• K: Kindness – Show genuine kindness, not just politeness. When you offer kindness, your brain rewards you as if you were the recipient.
• E: Engage – Put down distractions and be present in your life and interactions.

As leaders, we need to be self-aware, compassionate, and fully engaged to develop the kind of workplace culture that allows everyone to thrive.

Overcoming the Fear of JudgmentOne of the challenges many people face when tapping into their greatness is the fear of judgment. Tonya speaks candidly about the pressure to be perfect and the constant comparison we face, particularly in the age of social media. “If we follow what Mel Robbins says, nobody’s coming to save you. Nobody’s going to live your best life for you. You have to do it yourself,” Tonya notes.

The key to overcoming this fear, she explains, is to stop comparing yourself to others and focus on leading yourself with confidence.

Where to Find More From Tonya KayListen to the full episode to gain more insights about unlocking your greatness! If you want to find out more about Tonya Kay or explore the free resources she mentioned in the podcast, you can:

• Connect on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/outspoken-tonya-kay/
• Connect on Instagram at : instagram.com/tonya_kay_herb/
• Check out her free resources: linktr.ee/coachtonyakay

Cultivating Greatness Through Leadership DevelopmentAt Crestcom, we believe that tapping into your greatness isn’t just about personal fulfillment; it’s about becoming the best leader you can be. Our leadership development programs help you align your leadership style with your core values, make better decisions, and inspire your team to achieve more.

Whether you’re looking to strengthen your leadership skills or help your team unlock its potential, Crestcom offers resources like our complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop. In just two hours, you’ll gain actionable insights into improving decision-making, building trust, and increasing accountability within your team.

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, our host, Jenn DeWall, sits down with leadership expert Graham Wilson to discuss how to lead without having all the answers. In this insightful episode, he shares how leaders can thrive by embracing uncertainty, building confidence, and empowering their teams. The conversation dives deep into what it means to lead in today’s fast-paced world and how to do it even if you don’t have all the answers!

Meet Graham Wilson, Leadership WizardGraham Wilson is a leadership expert, coach, speaker and author of Leadership Laid Bare. In addition to that, he is the founder of Successfactory™ and creator of ChangePro. Graham is a leading performance facilitator and inspirational developer of leaders. His clients have described him as an “igniter of human potential,” “a true leadership wizard,” and “an inspirational storyteller.”

Leadership Has Changed: Old World vs. New WorldGraham Wilson explains how leadership has drastically evolved over the years. “The workforce, when I entered it, was overmanaged and underled,” he says. In the past, leadership was often about control, stability, and always having all the answers. However, in today’s rapidly changing environment, that mindset is outdated.

“The pace of change is faster than our ability to keep up,” Wilson notes. Modern leaders must be flexible, curious, and collaborative. They need to adapt their leadership style depending on the situation. “What works in one environment might not work in another,” Wilson emphasizes. Leading with confidence today means understanding that answers may not always be clear, but the right questions can pave the way.

Leading Without Having All the AnswersOne of the main challenges leaders face today is the pressure to know everything. However, according to Graham Wilson, this expectation no longer makes sense. “In the old world, you could probably get away with knowing all the answers because the environment was stable. But today, that’s not possible.”

Instead of focusing on always having the right answer, leaders should focus on asking the right questions. “Why rely on one brain when you can tap into 30?” Wilson asks. This approach encourages collaboration and helps reduce stress. When leaders invite their teams to brainstorm solutions, they unlock the creative power of many minds rather than just their own.

Building Confidence in Uncertain SituationsWilson introduces the concept of eternal confidence, a crucial trait for any leader. He explains that in uncertain situations, confidence allows leaders to trust themselves and their teams. Drawing from his military background, Wilson stresses the importance of building confidence within teams. “You have to build soldiers who are confident in any situation,” he says. The same principle applies to leaders. When leaders create an environment of trust and confidence, they empower their teams to perform even without all the answers.

Jenn DeWall adds, “If we can lead without having all the answers, there’s a gift in the form of mental health and connection.” By letting go of the pressure to know everything, leaders can avoid burnout and create more meaningful connections with their teams.

The Danger of Waiting for Perfect AnswersMany leaders fall into the trap of “analysis paralysis”—waiting too long for the perfect solution before making decisions. Graham Wilson points out how this can be harmful. “If you’re waiting to get everything right, you’re missing opportunities to lead, make decisions, and drive results,” he explains.

Wilson encourages leaders to focus on progress rather than perfection. Sometimes, moving forward with the information you have is the best course of action. Leading with confidence means trusting that you’ll learn as you go and adapt when necessary.

The Power of Collaboration and Asking QuestionsA significant takeaway from Wilson’s discussion is the power of collaboration. “Leaders must learn to facilitate rather than dictate,” he says. By fostering a culture where team members feel comfortable sharing ideas, leaders can tap into the collective intelligence of their workforce.

Great leaders ask great questions, so Wilson suggests a simple but effective shift: turn meeting agendas into a series of questions. “Questions are the answers,” he insists. This small change can transform meetings into problem-solving sessions where teams think critically and collaboratively. Asking the right questions can lead to innovative solutions, even when the leader doesn’t have all the answers.

Slow Down to Speed Up: The Key to Sustainable LeadershipIn closing, Wilson shares valuable advice for leaders facing the constant pressure of modern business: “Speed up by slowing down.” He encourages leaders to take time to reflect, build self-awareness, and clarify their purpose. Rushing through decisions without reflection leads to missed opportunities. By slowing down, leaders create space for thoughtful decision-making, which leads to better and more sustainable results.

Graham Wilson believes that a high-performance culture requires a balance between action and reflection. Taking time to assess what’s working and what’s not is crucial for long-term success. Slowing down allows leaders to focus on the big picture and ensure their decisions align with their purpose and team goals.

Embrace Leading Without Knowing All the AnswersIf you’re a leader who feels the pressure to know everything, it’s time to shift your mindset. Leading with confidence doesn’t mean always having all the answers. It means empowering your team, asking the right questions, and trusting the process. By embracing uncertainty and focusing on collaboration, you’ll unlock the full potential of your team and yourself. For more leadership insights and practical tools, listen to the full episode of The Leadership Habit podcast with Graham Wilson!

Where to Find More From Graham Wilson Connect on LinkedIn * Visit his Website: grahamwilson.com * Check out Successfactory™ * Buy his book: Leadership Laid Bare*

How Crestcom Can Help You Lead with ConfidenceAt Crestcom, we believe that confident leadership begins with self-awareness and the ability to embrace uncertainty. As Graham Wilson highlights in this episode, leaders who can lead without having all the answers are better positioned to empower their teams and drive results. Crestcom’s leadership development programs are designed to help leaders build confidence, ask the right questions, and foster a culture of collaboration.

Are you ready to lead with confidence and unlock the full potential of your team? Request a free Leadership Skills Workshop, where you’ll gain practical tools and insights to enhance your leadership abilities.

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall engages in a thought-provoking conversation with executive coach Angus Nelson on overcoming personal resistance and how it impacts personal and professional growth.

In this episode, Nelson dives deep into the concept of resistance—what it is, how it shows up in our lives, and most importantly, how we can overcome it. As leaders, understanding and managing resistance is crucial to success. By building self-awareness in leadership, we can identify the subconscious patterns that hold us back and develop strategies to push through those barriers.

Meet Angus Nelson, Executive Coach & AuthorAngus Nelson is an executive coach who transforms entrepreneurs into their best selves and achieves success, balance, and fulfillment. Nelson is the author of the upcoming book Confidence Comes Later: How the Quest for Certainty Holds Us Back. He hosts the Evolve Leadership podcast and founded the Wealthy Entrepreneur Circle mastermind. With business psychology and emotional intelligence expertise, Angus impacts high-achievers in startups, Fortune 500 companies, and celebrity circles. He’s spoken at Walmart, Coca-Cola, BMW, & Adobe. Based in Lisbon, Portugal, he’s the go-to strategist for those seeking excellence in all aspects of a wealthy life.

What Is Personal Resistance?At the beginning of the episode, Jenn DeWall introduces the central topic: “You likely have noticed yourself maybe that big goal that you have in your head, and then, of course, that big obstacle that’s preventing you from being that person that you know that you can be.” This idea of resistance is something everyone grapples with—whether it’s fear of failure, self-doubt, or simply getting stuck in old habits.

Nelson defines resistance as “the thing you feel, that internal tension that arises when you are pushing towards a new growth opportunity.” It’s the discomfort that prevents us from moving forward despite knowing what we want to achieve. This resistance can manifest in various forms, such as procrastination, imposter syndrome, or anxiety, and can impact every area of our lives—from our careers to personal relationships.

But as Nelson emphasizes, overcoming personal resistance is not just about recognizing it—it’s about developing self-awareness to understand where it comes from and how to push through it.

The Role of Self-Awareness in LeadershipNelson believes that self-awareness in leadership is the key to unlocking potential. Leaders who can recognize their own resistance are better equipped to manage it. According to Nelson, “Self-awareness is the gateway drug to personal development.” Without self-awareness, leaders are likely to fall into subconscious patterns that hold them back from reaching their full potential.

One of the examples Nelson shares involves working with a client who struggled with fear of public speaking. After some exploration, they discovered that the fear stemmed from a childhood incident. “The more you pay attention to these elements, the more you can actually start to see revealed that the inner workings of your life are creating ceilings holding you back,” Nelson explains.

This anecdote highlights how deeply ingrained resistance can be and how critical self-awareness is to overcoming it. By uncovering the stories we tell ourselves, we can begin to rewrite them. Nelson emphasizes that overcoming personal resistance often starts with a deep understanding of where these feelings come from: “Once we give our clients this kind of clarity, it makes it so much simpler to build new stories. Those new stories create new behaviors. Those new behaviors create better results.”

Breaking Free from Resistance: Take Action Despite FearOne of the most powerful insights Nelson offers is that overcoming personal resistance requires taking action, even when fear is present. “Success doesn’t make you more confident,” Nelson says. “In fact, success often makes you less confident because you start having these questions: Did I just get lucky? Can I pull off the next one?”

For high achievers, this fear can become paralyzing. Nelson’s advice is to face it head-on by taking small, consistent actions. “When you step out to do something new, and you feel that resistance, take action anyway,” he advises. “Do something that changes your state—whether it’s going for a walk, spending time with your kids, or doing something fun. The key is to move forward despite the resistance.”

Nelson also speaks to the importance of reassessing the standards we hold for ourselves. Often, resistance is fueled by the unrealistic pressures we put on ourselves to succeed. “Sometimes, the things we’re experiencing are because we’re tolerating too much BS in our lives,” Nelson points out. By raising our standards and setting healthier boundaries, we can reduce the impact of resistance and create space for growth.

The Resilience Triangle: Awareness, Action, and LearningAs the episode closes, Nelson gives the audience his Resilience Triangle model, a framework designed to help leaders develop the resilience needed to push through personal resistance. The three components of the model are:

1. Awareness: The first step in overcoming personal resistance is to recognize it. Nelson explains, “When you feel fear, self-doubt, or anger, that’s resistance showing up. Pay attention to what triggers these feelings and where they come from.”
2. Action: Once you’ve identified the resistance, take consistent, courageous steps to combat it. Nelson encourages leaders to act in ways that challenge their default responses. “If you feel like retreating, go out and do something,” he says. “By taking action, you change your emotional state.”
3. Learning: Finally, Nelson emphasizes the importance of reflection. “Everything is teaching us, training us, and preparing us for the next step in our process,” he explains. Resistance is not meant to be avoided; instead, it’s a tool for growth. Each time we confront resistance, we gain valuable insights that make us stronger and more resilient.

Where to Find More From Angus Nelson: * Visit AngusNelson.com * Connect on LinkedIn * Check out his YouTube channel

How Crestcom Can Help You Overcome Personal ResistanceAt Crestcom, we believe that leadership development starts with self-awareness. As Angus Nelson highlights in this episode, leaders who can understand and manage their personal resistance are better equipped to inspire their teams and achieve their goals. Crestcom’s leadership development programs are designed to help leaders build resilience, develop self-awareness, and overcome the barriers that hold them back.

Are you ready to overcome your own personal resistance and become a more effective leader? Join us for a free Leadership Skills Workshop, where you’ll gain practical tools and insights to strengthen your leadership.

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3 Realities Leaders Can’t Ignore with Cheryl Fields TylerIn the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sat down with Cheryl Fields Tyler, founder and CEO of Blue Beyond Consulting, to discuss three critical realities leaders and people managers today cannot afford to overlook. As organizations face rapid change and shifting workforce demographics, understanding these realities is crucial for success.

Meet Cheryl Fields Tyler, CEO of Blue Beyond ConsultingCheryl Fields Tyler is the founder and CEO of Blue Beyond Consulting. Cheryl’s focus for over 30 years has been building organizations where both the business and the people thrive. Her distinct, innovative, and practical perspective has been featured in various media outlets, including the BBC, CNBC, Fast Company, and Forbes. In 2020, she received the For All Leader award from the Great Place to Work® Institute. Under her leadership, Blue Beyond has been repeatedly recognized as one of the Best Small & Medium Workplaces by FORTUNE and as an Inc. 5000 company.

Reality #1: Demography is DestinyIn the episode, Cheryl Fields Tyler explains that the demographics of the workforce have shifted dramatically. With the Baby Boomer generation retiring and Millennials and Gen Z stepping into leadership roles, organizations must acknowledge the unique pressures facing younger generations. “If we don’t understand the demographic realities of those generations, we will not be able to effectively mentor and develop the next generation of leaders,” says Cheryl.

She points out that the cost of education, housing, and the burden of student debt weigh heavily on younger employees. These economic factors are not a sign of entitlement but a reality that leaders and people managers must consider. Providing support, flexibility, and understanding these pressures can help bridge the generational gap.

Mentorship across generations is critical. “Your older leaders can learn from your younger leaders, and your younger leaders can learn from your older leaders,” Cheryl advises. Reciprocal learning will ensure that organizations continue to thrive through generational transitions.

Reality #2: Amplifying the Signal, Reducing the NoiseLeaders today must help their teams focus on what matters most. “Leadership’s number one job is amplifying the signal and reducing the noise,” Cheryl emphasizes. Clear and focused communication is essential for success in a world full of distractions, from social media to constant emails.

Unfortunately, most organizations fall short when it comes to communication. According to Cheryl, “Only 26% of knowledge workers think their organizations are doing a really good job” at communicating effectively. To change this, leaders must prioritize communication that is human, compelling, and visual. Employees need to understand not only the ‘what’ but also the ‘why’ behind organizational goals and priorities.

Help your employees stay focused by clearly communicating what’s important. Cheryl suggests, “You have to have rich, compelling, human visuals as well as words” to cut through the noise and keep teams aligned.

Reality #3: The Future is in the Hands of People ManagersCheryl highlights a timeless truth: “People leave managers, not organizations.” The role of the people manager is crucial in unlocking the potential of teams and individuals. Unfortunately, good people management is often undervalued and under-supported within organizations. Cheryl advocates for more significant investment in people management training and building a community of leaders who can learn from each other.

Organizations can ensure that their teams are engaged and thriving by supporting people managers with training in areas like psychological safety, feedback, and motivation. Cheryl says, “The future is in the hands of our people managers. If we can unlock them, we can unlock our organizations.”

People managers need the right tools, training, and peer support to lead effectively. Invest in developing this vital role to ensure long-term organizational success.

The Future is HumanCheryl leaves us with an important message: “The future is human.” As technology and automation continue to advance, it’s more important than ever for leaders to focus on the human side of business. Understanding the realities of today’s workforce, prioritizing communication, and empowering people managers will set organizations up for long-term success.

Where to Find More from Cheryl Fields Tyler Connect on LinkedIn * Visit BlueBeyondConsulting.com* * Email her at: cheryl@bluebeyondconsulting.com

Learn More About CrestcomWant to learn more about how leadership development can give you the skills to meet the challenges of today’s workplace? Request a complimentary leadership skills workshop at crestcom.com/freeworkshop, where we help leaders unlock their full potential.

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall speaks with Patti B. Johnson about a challenge every leader must face—leading through change. Change, both personal and professional, is unavoidable. How leaders navigate it can determine their success. Patti, the former CEO of People Results and author of Make Waves: Be the One to Start Change at Work and in Life, shares insights on how leaders can start initiating change and make a meaningful impact by making waves in their organizations.

Why Do Leaders Struggle with Change?“Change is hard,” Jenn DeWall remarks during the episode. “It’s something we have to learn to stand with in solidarity to be great leaders.” Often, leadership is mistakenly seen as always having the right answers, but Patti challenges that assumption. She explains that leaders frequently try to create a perfect plan or appear to have all the answers, which can actually prevent effective leadership during times of change. Instead, leaders need to be adaptable and open to learning as the pace of change accelerates. Patti highlights that “the world we live in is constantly evolving, and we need to adapt to keep up.”

The Mindset for Making WavesPatti introduces the concept of making waves in leadership, which refers to initiating change and pushing through uncertainty. “When you’re making waves, you’re driving change in your organization,” she explains. Whether it’s a personal project or a major business initiative, the ability to take action in the face of ambiguity defines successful leaders.

A major takeaway from the episode is the belief that “I’ll figure it out.” According to Patti, this mindset allows leaders to be flexible and resilient during times of change. It’s not about knowing everything from the start but rather about being willing to learn and initiate change confidently.

The “Think, Know, Do” FrameworkTo help leaders navigate change effectively, Patti outlines her Think, Know, Do framework—a model that gives leaders a structured approach to leading through change:

• Think: Understand what you’re bringing to the table, including your strengths, fears, and motivations. “Know what you have to manage around,” says Patti. It’s crucial to reflect on how these personal traits may impact your ability to initiate change.
• Know: Ask yourself, “What do I need to learn that I don’t already know?” Curiosity and continuous learning are key traits of leaders who are successful at making waves in leadership.
• Do: Take action—but start small. “Don’t make getting started feel overwhelming,” Patti advises. She encourages adaptive planning, where leaders adjust their plans as they gain more knowledge and insight.

Effective Communication During ChangeOne of the most critical elements of leading through change is clear, consistent communication. “If you set the expectation that everything will go smoothly, you’re setting yourself up for failure,” warns Patti. Instead, leaders should be transparent and realistic, acknowledging that there will be challenges along the way. Honest communication not only builds trust but also helps teams stay aligned with the overall vision.

Patti also emphasizes the importance of involving others in the process of initiating change. Creating an “idea circle” with diverse perspectives can help leaders gather valuable feedback and expertise. As Patti explains, “Most change is not a solo sport. You need others to help you figure it out.” Having a supportive network during times of change can prevent isolation and increase the likelihood of success.

Take the First Step in Making WavesThe episode concludes with an empowering message: anyone can begin making waves in leadership. Whether you’re a senior executive or a team leader, you have the power to start meaningful change. “Take the first baby step,” Patti advises. “Don’t wait for someone else to initiate it—start making waves yourself.”

Where to Find More From Patti B. JohnsonIf you enjoyed this episode, you can connect with Patti by:

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Visit her website: pattibjohnson.com
• Listen to her podcast: Be a Wave Maker: Conversations on Change
• Buy Her Book: Make Waves: Be the One to Start Change at Work and in Life

At Crestcom, we understand that effective leadership development is essential to helping leaders embrace change. Our programs equip leaders with the tools to adapt, communicate effectively, and drive change within their organizations. If you’re ready to take the first step toward leading through change, request a free leadership workshop and learn how to develop the skills you need to make waves in your leadership journey.

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In a recent episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with communication expert Davina Stanley to discuss how leaders can elevate their communication skills.

For 25+ years, Davina has advised thousands of executives from some of the world’s largest companies, including Meta, KPMG, and Mercer. She has helped clients from nearly all industries for clients in Australia, Asia-Pacific, the US, and the UK to communicate complex ideas extremely clearly and quickly, ideally within 30 seconds.

She is the Founder of Clarity First Program, which helps C-suite executives and their teams to better engage senior leaders and Boards in complex ideas.

Davina began her career at McKinsey & Company, working in the Hong Kong and Melbourne offices as well as Firm Learning, where she helped executives use the Minto Pyramid Principle(R) to communicate better. She was ranked as one of the top performers of her era.

Barbara Minto approved her to teach the Pyramid Principle in 2009, and she is also the author of The So What Strategy and has recently released two new books: Elevate and Engage.

Elevate will be released during September and helps leaders lift the quality of thinking in their team’s board papers without needing to rewrite them.

Engage will be released soon after that and helps executives write papers that their leaders don’t need to rework.

The Importance of Effective CommunicationEffective communication is an essential leadership skill. Jenn DeWall opened the conversation by emphasizing how many conflicts, confusions, and even burnout can be traced back to poor communication. As she rightly pointed out, “We need to stop making things harder because we’re not communicating better.” This set the stage for Davina Stanley to share her expertise on how to simplify complex ideas and ensure that the right messages are conveyed.

Cultural Nuances in CommunicationOne of the interesting points Davina shared was the impact of cultural differences on communication styles. Having lived in various parts of the world, including Australia, Hong Kong, and the United States, Davina noted that while it might seem like communication would be similar across Western cultures, subtle differences can create significant challenges. For example, the directness often expected in American communication can be perceived as brashness by those from other cultures.

The Vicious Cycle of Poor CommunicationDavina introduced the concept of the “chain of pain,” a cycle where unclear or poorly structured communication leads to a cascade of issues. Leaders often fall into the trap of providing input too late in the communication process, creating a situation where teams spend more time rewriting and clarifying rather than moving projects forward. This vicious cycle not only wastes time but also leads to frustration and burnout among team members.

Davina stressed the importance of thinking deeply about the outcomes you want from any communication. “Leaders want their people to write better, but they’ll often wait to provide input into a communication until after it’s drafted because it’s easier. And actually, what they’re doing is creating a really vicious cycle,” she explained.

A Five-Step Process to Elevate CommunicationTo break this cycle, Davina outlined a five-step process to help leaders and teams improve their written communication:

1. Flush Out the Strategy: Consider who the communication is for, why they need it, and what outcome you want from it. This step is crucial for setting the direction and ensuring that the communication aligns with the intended goals.
2. Frame the Message: Structure your message using clear, concise patterns. Davina offers 10 patterns to help teams organize their thoughts and communicate effectively.
3. Firm Up the Messaging: Once the message structure is clear, refine it into a one-pager that captures the essence of the communication. This ensures that the key points are crystal clear.
4. Flip It Into a Document: After the messaging is firm, turn it into a full document, ensuring that the structure and clarity are maintained.
5. Feedback: After delivering the communication, reflect on what worked and what didn’t. Use this feedback to improve future communications.

Simplifying Complex IdeasOne of the standout points Davina made was the importance of simplifying complex ideas. She mentioned that business communication should be at a grade six or seven reading level, ensuring that it is accessible and easy to understand. Tools like Hemingway can help writers refine their language to meet this standard. “If you can’t say it in a sentence, you don’t know it,” Davina noted, highlighting the value of clarity and brevity.

Where to Find more from Davina Stanley Connect with Davina Stanley on LinkedIn * Visit her website: clarityfirstprogram.com * Check out her latest books: Elevate and Engage*

Crestcom’s Role in Leadership DevelopmentAs the conversation wrapped up, Jenn DeWall reminded listeners of Crestcom’s commitment to leadership development. Crestcom offers a robust curriculum covering 24 topics essential for effective leadership, from communication to building trust. Jenn also extended an invitation to experience Crestcom’s Complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop—a fun, interactive team-building activity designed to enhance communication and collaboration within teams.

For leaders and teams looking to take their communication to the next level, Davina Stanley’s insights provide a practical roadmap. By following her five-step process and focusing on clarity, leaders can break the cycle of poor communication and drive better results.

If you’re interested in learning more about how to elevate your communication or want to explore Crestcom’s leadership development programs, visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to request a complimentary workshop and discover more resources to help you and your team thrive.

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sat down with Andrew Cooper, an influential executive leader and author of the newly released book, The Ethical Imperative. The episode delves deep into what it means to “lead with conscience” in the modern workplace, offering valuable insights for leaders striving to create positive outcomes for their teams, organizations, and communities.

Meet Andrew C.M. CooperAndy received his doctorate from Emory University and later joined the legal leadership teams of multiple Fortune 500 companies. He rose in responsibility to General Counsel of UPS Airlines and served on an executive staff responsible for overseeing billions in assets and over twenty thousand employees. Cooper would become the youngest and first African American to assume the role at America’s largest cargo airline.

Andrew is a globally recognized executive leader and advocate for compassionate business practices. He is the head of patent acquisitions at Meta Platforms, Inc. He made history as the first millennial and black executive to serve as general counsel of UPS Airlines, the world’s largest logistics airline operating in 220 countries. With over 20,000 employees, Cooper’s team played a pivotal role in the success of Operation Warp Speed, the US Pandemic vaccine relief effort.

Andrew is committed to facilitating leadership transformation and assisting organizations in achieving and sustaining high performance. Andrew’s debut book, The Ethical Imperative: Leading with Conscience to Shape the Future of Business makes a compelling case for companies to champion the collective prosperity of employees, shareholders and communities.

The Importance of Leading with ConscienceLeading with conscience is more than just a buzzword—it’s a critical approach to leadership in a time of significant social and organizational stress. Andrew Cooper, a globally recognized advocate for compassionate business practices and head of patent acquisitions at Meta Platforms Inc. underscores the need for leaders to prioritize ethical decision-making.

Cooper’s journey to writing The Ethical Imperative began during his time as general counsel at UPS Airlines. He witnessed firsthand the immense pressures that leaders faced during the pandemic. He started journaling about these experiences, which eventually led to the development of his book. As Cooper explains, “The genesis of the book really came when members on my team began losing family members… I began journaling about how we were dealing with stress, people on my team, and how I was dealing with it. And that evolved into research on how leaders historically help their teams retain high performance during crises.”

The Four Moral Imperatives of LeadershipLater in the episode, Cooper lays out the four moral imperatives that are essential for leading with conscience:

1. Speed: In the face of rapidly changing market conditions, leaders must decentralize decision-making to enable quick, informed actions. Cooper emphasizes the importance of speed, not in a reckless sense, but as a moral imperative to save livelihoods and adapt to market changes. “The moral reasoning behind why speed is important is because staying ahead of changes is really a moral requirement for organizations today. If you are caught flatfooted, people are harmed,” says Cooper.
2. Inspiration: Cooper highlights the necessity of connecting employees’ work to a larger cause. By doing so, leaders can double productivity and foster a sense of purpose among their teams. He points to Bombas, a company that donates a pair of socks to homeless shelters for every pair sold, as a prime example of how cause connection can inspire employees to go above and beyond.
3. Community Investment: Cooper’s personal experiences growing up in a struggling rural community in South Carolina fuel his belief in the power of community investment. He advocates for businesses to intentionally invest in economically depressed areas, which can help bridge the rural-urban divide and strengthen communities. “Everything that we do has an impact on communities. When we succeed, communities thrive; when we fail, they also hurt,” he explains.
4. Openness: The final imperative centers on creating inclusive environments where all employees have the opportunity to thrive. Cooper urges leaders to dismantle hierarchies and focus on individual contributions. He cites Meta’s initiative to support historically overlooked inventors, particularly women in tech, as an example of intentional inclusivity.

Crestcom’s Commitment to Ethical LeadershipAt Crestcom, we understand that leading with conscience is more than just an ideal—it’s a necessity for sustainable business success. Our leadership development programs are designed to equip leaders with the tools they need to inspire, connect, and empower their teams. As Jenn DeWall concludes in the podcast, “We know that we’ve got to make better decisions to protect our people, to navigate the disruption that is continuously around us.”

If you’re looking to enhance your leadership skills, consider requesting Crestcom’s complimentary leadership skills workshop for your organization. In just two hours, you’ll gain actionable tactics to improve decision-making, build trust, and increase accountability within your organization.

Final ThoughtsAs we navigate through an era of unprecedented change, leading with conscience is no longer optional—it’s imperative. Andrew C.M. Cooper’s insights remind us that ethical leadership is about more than just making the right decisions; it’s about creating an environment where people can thrive, communities can prosper, and businesses can achieve lasting success.

Where to Find More from Andy: * Connect with Andy on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/accooper * Visit his website: andrew-cooper.com * Read his book: The Ethical Imperative

Thank you for listening to The Leadership Habit Podcast! For more information on how Crestcom can support your leadership development, visit Crestcom.com/freeworkshop and request your free workshop today.

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In this episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sat down with Tricia Brouk to explore how to communicate for impact. Tricia Brouk, a seasoned director, producer, and mentor, helps high-performing professionals become industry thought leaders through authentic storytelling.

Tricia founded the Big Talk Academy to certify public speakers. She was also the executive producer of Speakers Who Dare and TEDxLincolnSquare and hosts The Big Talk Podcast and YouTube channel. Her book, The Influential Voice, was a number-one new release on Amazon, and Tricia also founded The Big Talk Press, her new publishing house. If you have an idea, want to connect with your audience, influence others, or be a better speaker, this episode is for you!

The Importance of Believing in Your MessageJenn DeWall kicked off the episode by emphasizing the broad application of impactful communication. Whether at the grocery store, the dinner table, or in front of stakeholders at work, believing in your message is the starting point. “How you communicate is going to determine whether it lands or it doesn’t,” Jenn highlighted.

Tricia Brouk’s JourneyTricia shared her inspiring journey from a small town in Missouri to becoming a professional dancer in New York City and eventually transitioning into directing, writing, and producing. Her background in performing arts influenced her unique approach to communication, which she now applies to help thought leaders communicate their messages effectively.

What It Means to Be an Influential VoiceWhen asked what it means to be an influential voice, Tricia explained, “You have an opportunity to be an influential voice from across the table with your family, at the boardroom table with your team, and on a stadium stage.” She shared a poignant story about Pamela, a checkout woman during the stressful times of March 2020 in New York City, who made her feel seen and loved with a simple act of kindness. This, Tricia said, is the essence of being an influential voice.

Strategies to Communicate for ImpactTricia provided five simple strategies for effective communication:

1. Coexist with Fear: Recognize that fear indicates you care about your message. “Speaking, leading, and being in front of your colleagues is stress-inducing. If you learn how to coexist with that fear and make it about the audience, then you understand I can do this.”
2. Context Matters: Always ask yourself three questions: Why is this big idea important? Why is it important to me personally? Why is it important to the world? These questions help frame your message in a way that connects deeply with your audience.
3. Credibility, Relatability, and Vulnerability: “Credibility is really what you can bring to the table because of the life you have lived,” Tricia stated. Relating to your audience and showing vulnerability—while ensuring you’re not sharing from a wound but a scar—are crucial for connection.
4. Performance and Choreography: Being mindful of your body language and movements can significantly enhance your message’s impact. “If you’re comfortable in your body and you understand the impact of movement or stillness, you can really have an impact.”
5. Motivation vs. Manipulation: Understand your objective and action in communication. “Know what you want from your audience… and how you’re going to get it without manipulating them.”

The Power of StorytellingStories are powerful tools for connection and emotion. Tricia illustrated this with an example of a leader turning a stressful morning commute into a positive reflection on team appreciation. “If you are leaning over the table and you are aggressively leaning over the table, they will feel that energy from you,” Tricia explained, highlighting the importance of intentionality in physical presence.

Final ThoughtsTricia concluded with an empowering message: “Give yourself permission to trust that you have an influential voice. What you have to say matters.” Tricia offers a powerful visualization tool for those seeking to enhance their communication skills to help them see themselves as influential voices.

Where to Find More From Tricia Brouk Visit Tricia Brouk’s website at triciabrouk.com * You can also download her free powerful visualization tool at triciabrouk.com/power. * Buy her book: The Influential Voice: Saying What You Mean for Lasting Legacy*

Enhance Your Leadership SkillsIf you’re looking to improve your leadership skills, Crestcom offers a complimentary Leadership Skills Workshop. Gain actionable tactics to improve decision-making, build trust, and increase accountability. Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to secure your spot and start building genuine connections within your team today.

Please share this podcast episode with anyone who could benefit from learning how to communicate for impact, and don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service!

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with Jason Anthoine to find out how leaders can help make work matter more. With over 35 years of experience working alongside CEOs, CHROs, and the C-Suite, Jason has dedicated his career to enhancing internal communication within organizations. His authentic approach, deeply rooted in his upbringing in a blue-collar household in Fort Valley, Georgia, aims to make work and the people who do it genuinely matter.

Meet Jason Anthoine, Employee Experience ExpertJason Anthoine is not just an expert in internal communications; he is someone whose passion for the field began in childhood. Growing up with a father who was a foreman at a school bus factory and a mother who worked as a secretary at a bank, Jason was fascinated by the stories his parents brought home from work.

This early interest led him to study public relations and eventually to a career where he has helped companies like GE, Siemens, and Newell Brands inform, involve, and inspire their employees. As Jason puts it, “If you’re going to spend 8, 10, 12 hours a day at work, it really ought to matter. Right? And you ought to enjoy it. So what can I do to help make that happen?”

Why Making Work Matter is EssentialThe concept of “making work matter” is more relevant today than ever. As Jason points out, “quiet quitting” and general dissatisfaction at work clearly indicate that employees need more engagement. The 2024 Gallup State of the Workforce survey estimates that 62% of the workforce is disengaged. They also estimate that low employee engagement costs the global economy $8.9 Trillion annually!

Employees who have a sense of purpose or meaning at work are more likely to be engaged. Higher engagement leads to lower turnover, higher productivity and better business results. So, how can leaders help make work matter more?

Effective Communication is Crucial Effective communication plays a pivotal role in this process. Jason emphasizes that leaders need to focus on both “big C” and “little c” communications. While “big C” communications come from the corporate level, “little c” communications happen daily at all levels of the organization and are often overlooked. “The big C stuff might be 10% of communications, but the little C stuff is 90%. And that’s where leaders need to focus more of their time,” Jason explains. In the episode, Jason and Jenn break down a few things leaders can do to improve communication at work:

Be Yourself:Employees want their leaders to be authentic. Jason advises leaders to be themselves, even if it means occasionally making mistakes in communication. “Your employees want you to communicate, and they’re less concerned about how polished that might be,” says Jason.

Regular Communication is Crucial:Jason is surprised by the number of organizations where leaders need to communicate regularly with their teams, especially in a hybrid work environment. He suggests simple, regular updates to keep everyone aligned and engaged, even if it’s just five minutes at the start or end of a shift.

The Role of the Scoreboard:Drawing an analogy from sports, Jason discusses the importance of having a “scoreboard” at work. Employees need to know how they are doing and how their work contributes to the organization’s goals. Regular feedback and updates are essential for maintaining motivation and direction. “It’s important to look forward, not just in the rearview mirror. What are we going to do this quarter?” Jason advises.

Jenn points out that in her work as a coach and training facilitator, she is often shocked that employees don’t know about organizational goals or why they are working on a specific project. She reminds the audience that communicating the why is crucial to making work matter.

Jason Anthoine’s Practical Tips for Leaders1. Invest Time in Communication: Jason acknowledges that leaders are often pressed for time, but he insists that investing time in communication is crucial. Clear, consistent communication helps employees understand their roles and the bigger picture, leading to better performance and engagement. “You have to make the time to do that because when you do, people begin to understand the context of the little things that they do every day and how those things add up,” Jason explains. 2. Use the Right Channels: It’s important to use communication channels that are effective for your team. Whether it’s face-to-face meetings, emails, or even fax machines (yes, some companies still use them!), the key is to ensure that the communication is clear and reaches everyone. Jason shares an interesting example, “We have a client that is very old fashioned and they still use fax machines. The employees gather around the fax machine waiting for information because it’s all about the content and not necessarily about the channel.” 3. Focus on Content Over Channels: While the medium is important, what truly matters is the content of the communication. Make sure your messages are concise, relevant, and actionable. Jason recommends the Smart Brevity approach, which focuses on delivering short, impactful messages. “Short and simple and easy to understand. That will solve 95% of communication issues,” Jason suggests. 4. Set and Manage Expectations: One of the most common issues in communication is mismatched expectations. Leaders need to set clear expectations and be consistent in their communication efforts. This builds trust and ensures that everyone is on the same page. “Whatever those things are that you set based on what you and they want, just stick to it. Just stick to it at first. It’s hard. It’s like any habit,” Jason advises.

Leaders CAN Make Work Matter More!As Jason Anthoine shares, making work matter is not just about grand gestures or corporate announcements. It’s about the daily interactions and communications that build a culture of trust, engagement, and purpose. By focusing on being authentic, investing time in regular communication, and ensuring that both “big C” and “little c” communications are given their due attention, leaders can create a work environment where employees feel valued and motivated.

For more insights and practical advice on enhancing your leadership and communication skills, be sure to listen to the full episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast. If you’re looking to dive deeper into leadership development, explore our range of resources and workshops at Crestcom.

As Jason puts it, “Just have a little bit of humility and a little bit of empathy and understand that everybody really truly wants to do the right thing. And not everybody even knows what that is. But as long as we’re shooting in that direction, we’re way ahead of where others are.”

Where to Find More From Jason AnthoineIf you enjoyed hearing from Jason Anthoine and want to learn more, you can find him here:

• Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jasonanthoine/
• Check out Jason’s special downloadable resources for our audience here: jasonanthoine.com/theleadershiphabit
• Check out Jason’s podcast: Riding Shotgun with Jason Anthoine

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Does Your Organization Need to Fine-Tune Its Employer Branding? In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sits down with Bryan Adams, a visionary in employer branding and candidate experience, to discuss overcoming setbacks at work. Together, they discuss how to fine-tune employer branding to overcome organizational workplace challenges.

Meet Bryan Adams, CEO and Founder of Happy DanceBryan Adams is the CEO and founder of HappyDance. He has revolutionized how major brands such as Apple, American Airlines, and Nike attract and engage talent. With a career spanning over 20 years, Bryan’s groundbreaking approach is detailed in his bestselling book, “Give and Get Employer Branding.” His innovative strategies have helped numerous organizations build compelling employer brands that attract and retain top talent.

The Nature of Organizational Setbacks Jenn DeWall kicks off the conversation by highlighting the common setbacks organizations face, particularly in employer branding. Bryan Adams talks about how problems can happen when a company’s brand doesn’t match its workplace culture.

“It’s about setting expectations and being more honest and upfront about what you might find if you were to choose to work at a certain organization,” Bryan explains.

The Importance of Transparency in Employer BrandingBryan stresses the importance of transparency in employer branding. He believes leaders can attract the right talent by being clear about a workplace’s positive and negative aspects. This honesty will help build a more committed workforce. He points out, “If you’re upfront with what it actually takes to thrive…more people will be turned off than turned on, and that’s okay.”

Bryan urges organizations to consider their employee value proposition as a smart filter for candidates. Being transparent about the company culture and nature of the work will allow candidates and employees to make better decisions about how well they match with an organization.

Jenn agrees and wonders why organizations pretend they are something they are not. Bryan explains that trying to put your best foot forward is really just human nature. Employers have also been too focused on vanity metrics like Glassdoor ratings and top employer awards. However, he believes that “if you are brave enough to understand that your employer brand and your employee value proposition should actually repel more people than it compels— that’s when you start making progress.”

Overcoming Setbacks through Strategic Employer BrandingWhen organizations are experiencing a setback, Bryan highlights the need for a strategic approach to employer branding. He advises organizations to focus on being compelling rather than merely attractive. “Organizations should try to be compelling to fewer people,” Bryan suggests. “There’s no such thing as a good or bad culture; it’s about being well-matched or not well-matched to somebody.”

This concept is particularly relevant for leaders who are looking to build strong, cohesive teams. When it comes to building the right team, Crestcom’s leadership training teaches managers to focus on matching team members’ values and goals with the organization’s mission for success.

The Role of Employer Branding in Talent RetentionBryan explains that employer branding is not just about attracting new talent but also about retaining existing employees. He explains that a strong employer brand can help organizations weather crises and setbacks by maintaining a committed and engaged workforce. “Every organization has an employer brand, whether you’ve designed it or not,” Bryan notes. “The success of an employer brand comes from aligning with the true wants and needs of the organization.”

Real-Life Examples of Successful Employer BrandingThroughout the podcast, Bryan shares examples of organizations that have successfully navigated setbacks by leveraging strong employer branding. He discusses companies like Canva, Salesforce, and Peloton. These companies have utilized their employer brands to create captivating experiences for job seekers. “If you can tell your story in a compelling way and put your finger on what makes you unique or different, then you have a great chance,” Bryan explains.

These examples show how storytelling is important in employer branding, something Crestcom focuses on in leadership training. Leaders can inspire and motivate their teams by crafting and sharing powerful narratives.

The Intersection of Employer Branding and LeadershipBryan’s insights highlight the critical intersection between employer branding and effective leadership. He argues that leaders play a crucial role in shaping and communicating the organization’s brand.

“Your employer brand is the how. How are we going to get there? What’s the culture? What’s my contribution?” Bryan asks.

Crestcom’s leadership development approach aligns with this perspective. Learning the skills to establish and uphold a positive company culture is a vital part of leadership. Leaders can enhance their employer brand and drive organizational success by fostering a culture of transparency, trust, and alignment.

Practical Steps for LeadersTowards the end of the podcast, Bryan shares practical steps for leaders looking to improve their employer brand and overcome setbacks. He emphasizes the importance of ongoing effort and commitment to maintaining and evolving the employer brand. “The rate of change of most organizations today means that the reality is shifting such that your employee value proposition needs to be kept fresh more frequently,” he advises.

Where to Find More From Bryan Adams, CEO of HappyDanceThe conversation between Jenn DeWall and Bryan Adams offers invaluable insights into overcoming setbacks through strategic employer branding. Bryan’s emphasis on transparency, compelling storytelling, and alignment with organizational values resonates strongly with Crestcom’s leadership principles. By integrating these strategies, leaders can build resilient teams, enhance employee engagement, and drive long-term success.

For more insights on leadership and employer branding, connect with Bryan Adams here:

• Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/bryanadams1
• Get his Book: Give and Get Employer Branding
• Visit HappyDance.Love

How Crestcom Can HelpCrestcom’s leadership training programs provide leaders with tools and strategies to continuously assess and adapt their leadership approaches. Leaders can keep their employer brand strong by understanding their team’s needs and adapting to changes in the business world.

The Leadership Habit listeners can also request a free leadership workshop for their organization here: crestcom.com/freeworkshop

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In the high-pressure world of leadership, building a support system at work is crucial for personal and professional well-being. In a recent episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sat down with Dona Amelia, co-founder and member service director at EGN Singapore Malaysia and MD of EGN Indonesia, to discuss this vital topic. With a rich background in both the entertainment and business worlds, Dona provides a unique perspective on the importance of creating a robust support system in the workplace.

The Importance of a Support System at WorkWorkplace loneliness is a common issue, particularly for those in leadership positions. As Dona points out, leaders often find themselves isolated, lacking peers to share ideas with or seek advice from. This isolation can lead to stress, burnout, and even mental health issues. A strong support system is essential to mitigate these effects and ensure leaders have the resources they need to thrive. Dona emphasizes, “Being lonely at the top is not good. It can lead you to stress, burnout, and mental health issues.”

Having a support system also allows leaders to make better decisions. Leaders can gain new perspectives and innovative solutions by discussing challenges and brainstorming with peers from different industries. The peer coaching model is a collaborative approach where senior executives meet regularly to share their experiences and insights in a confidential setting. “It’s important for leaders to have someone who can relate to their challenges and provide inspiration to make better decisions,” says Dona.

3 Steps to Build a Support System* Step One: Embrace Vulnerability

Dona emphasizes that vulnerability is a strength, not a weakness. Leaders need to acknowledge their challenges and seek help when needed. This openness fosters trust and creates a safe space for others to share their experiences. “As a leader, it’s okay to make mistakes and to ask for help. Vulnerability is your power,” Dona explains.

• Step Two: Seek External Support

Finding support outside the organization can be incredibly beneficial. Joining peer networks, hiring a coach, or finding a mentor are all effective ways to build a support system. These external resources provide a safe environment to discuss sensitive issues without fear of judgment or repercussions within the workplace. “Belonging to a peer network or having a mentor can provide the diverse perspectives needed to solve complex challenges,” Dona advises.

• Step Three: Make Time for Supportive Activities

One of the most significant barriers to building a support system is time. Leaders often feel too busy to engage in activities that foster support networks. However, making time for these activities is crucial for long-term success. Whether it’s attending peer group meetings, scheduling regular sessions with a coach, or participating in professional development workshops, prioritizing these activities can significantly enhance a leader’s effectiveness and well-being. “You need to make time for it. Without prioritizing supportive activities, you risk stagnation,” Dona emphasizes.

Overcoming Challenges in Building a Support SystemMany leaders hesitate to seek help because they fear it will make them appear weak. Dona reassures that asking for help and admitting mistakes are signs of strength and self-awareness. Leaders should cultivate a culture where vulnerability is accepted and valued. “It’s very important to admit that we are all human and that it’s okay to not always have the answers,” she says.

Identifying the right people to include in your support system can also be challenging. Look for individuals who understand your professional challenges and can provide constructive feedback. This might include colleagues from different departments, peers from industry networks, or mentors with extensive experience. “Start by identifying trusted individuals and gradually expand your network to include diverse supporters,” Dona recommends.

The Role of Peer NetworksParticipating in a peer network offers numerous benefits, including access to diverse perspectives, enhanced problem-solving capabilities, and opportunities for collaboration. Leaders can learn from their peers’ experiences and apply these lessons to their own challenges. Dona shares, “It’s amazing how much leaders love to help each other. The amount of insight and support they provide is invaluable.”

Tips for Building a Support SystemStart SmallBuilding a support system doesn’t have to be overwhelming. Start by identifying one or two trusted individuals with whom you can share your challenges. Over time, expand this network to include a diverse group of supporters.

Be ProactiveTake the initiative to reach out to potential mentors, join professional networks, and attend industry events. Being proactive in seeking support will help you build a robust network more quickly. “If you don’t ask for help, you’ll never know if you can get it. People are generally very willing to share their knowledge and support,” Dona encourages.

Use TechnologyIn today’s digital age, technology can play a significant role in building and maintaining a support system. Use tools like LinkedIn to connect with peers, join online forums, and participate in virtual peer group meetings.

Seek Learning OpportunitiesThe Crestcom L.E.A.D.R. for Life program is another excellent resource for leaders seeking to enhance their skills and build a strong support network. This program focuses on developing key leadership competencies through interactive workshops and practical exercises.

Support Systems Are EssentialBuilding a support system at work is essential for leaders to navigate the complexities of their roles effectively. Leaders can create a robust network that enhances their decision-making and overall well-being by embracing vulnerability, seeking external support, and making time for supportive activities. Peer networks provide a safe space for leaders to share their challenges and learn from each other’s experiences. By prioritizing these efforts, leaders can ensure they have the resources they need to succeed and thrive in their careers.

For more information on how to build a support system at work and to access Crestcom’s leadership development resources, find a Crestcom trainer near you!

Where to Find More From Dona AmeliaIf you would like to learn more about Dona Amelia or EGN, you can connect with her here:

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/donaamelia/
• Follow Dona Amelia on Instagram
• Check out her music on Youtube
• Check out EGN

And if you would like to see Crestcom’s leadership training in action, request a free workshop for your team today!

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Developing Mental Strength in Leadership with CEO & Author, Scott MautzIn the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with Scott Mautz to discuss the essential topic of mental strength and its critical role in effective leadership. Scott Mautz, the CEO and founder of Profound Performance, brings decades of experience and research to the table, aiming to empower leaders to develop habits that enhance their mental fortitude.

The Importance of Mental Strength in LeadershipScott Mautz emphasizes that mental strength is a foundational quality for any leader striving to succeed in today’s challenging workplace. He defines mental strength as the ability to regulate emotions, thoughts, and behaviors productively, especially in the face of adversity. As Mautz explains, “Mental strength is how we manage internally so that we can lead better externally.”

The Inspiration Behind “The Mentally Strong Leader”Mautz’s latest book, “The Mentally Strong Leader,” stems from extensive research and personal observations. He recounts a pivotal piece of research in which he surveyed over 3000 executives, asking them to describe the key attributes of leaders in high-achieving organizations. Consistently, the responses pointed to leaders who exhibited what he terms “mental strength.” This consistent finding inspired him to delve deeper and share his insights with a broader audience.

The Six Core Muscles of Mental StrengthScott Mautz identifies six core muscles that constitute mental strength: fortitude, boldness, confidence, goal focus, decision-making, and positive messaging. These elements, he argues, are not just essential for overcoming obstacles but are critical for overall leadership effectiveness.

• Fortitude: The ability to push through challenges toward achievement.
• Boldness: The willingness to take risks and act decisively.
• Confidence: The belief in one’s abilities to handle challenges.
• Goal Focus: The ability to stay centered on objectives amidst distractions.
• Decision Making: The skill to make clear and effective choices.
• Positive Messaging: The capability to maintain a positive outlook even in negative situations.

Overcoming Barriers to Mental StrengthMaintaining mental strength can be particularly challenging in today’s fast-paced and often overwhelming work environment. Jenn DeWall points out that many leaders are feeling burned out and overwhelmed. Mautz acknowledges this reality, noting that the ability to self-regulate is more important than ever. He offers practical advice and tools to help leaders build and sustain mental strength.

Practical Tools for Building Mental StrengthOne of the highlights of the episode is Scott Mautz’s introduction of practical tools and frameworks to help leaders strengthen their mental muscles. One such tool is the Self-Acceptance Scale, which helps individuals gauge their confidence and self-worth. Mautz explains that understanding and addressing the degradations of confidence, such as approval seeking and negative self-talk, is crucial for developing self-acceptance.

The Four Lenses of ResilienceMautz also introduces the “Four Lenses of Resilience,” which provide different perspectives for reframing setbacks and challenges:

1. Agreeable Adversity: Finding the positive aspects in difficult situations.
2. Gratitude Lens: Focusing on what you still have rather than what you’ve lost.
3. Respond vs. React: Choosing to process emotions and respond thoughtfully rather than react impulsively.
4. Perspective Lens: Broadening your viewpoint by remembering past resilience and seeking support from your network.

The Role of Organizations in Supporting Mental StrengthWhile individual effort is crucial, Mautz emphasizes that organizations also play a vital role in fostering mental strength among their leaders. He suggests that organizations can support their leaders by providing resources, creating supportive environments, and encouraging a culture of resilience and continuous improvement.

Mental Strength is a SuperpowerJenn DeWall wraps up the episode by highlighting the importance of mental strength for personal and professional growth. She encourages listeners to embrace the tools and insights shared by Scott Mautz to become more mentally strong leaders. As Mautz succinctly puts it, “Mental strength is the superpower of our times.”

Mental strength is not just about enduring challenges; it’s about thriving and leading with confidence and resilience. As Scott Mautz demonstrates, building this strength is a journey that requires deliberate practice and the right tools. Leaders who commit to this path will not only enhance their own effectiveness but will also inspire and elevate those around them.

Where to Find More from Scott MautzScott Mautz is offering a special gift to The Leadership Habit audience! If you are interested in further developing your mental strength, download his FREE 60-page PDF, which features a mental strength self-assessment and key tools from his book!

• Connect with Scott on LinkedIn at: linkedin.com/in/scottmautz
• Visit his website: scottmautz.com
• Download Your Free Gift: scottmautz.com/mentallystronggift/
• Buy his book, The Mentally Strong Leader

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In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sat down with Evan Roth, an experienced executive coach, to discuss the interplay between emotional intelligence and energy leadership. This conversation is rich with insights on how leaders can harness these concepts to improve their professional and personal lives. Let’s delve into the key takeaways from this enlightening discussion.

Meet Evan Roth, Executive Coach and Crestcom Subject Matter ExpertEvan Roth is a seasoned executive coach with over 30 years of experience in corporate roles such as Chief Financial Officer, General Manager, and Chief Learning Officer. He has led teams worldwide, including in Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Holland, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Roth’s coaching focuses on helping executives thrive by building emotional intelligence through the concept of energy leadership.

In addition to these impressive achievements, Evan is one of Crestcom’s esteemed Subject Matter Experts. He is featured on a module about business acumen, bringing his expertise to Crestcom L.E.A.D.R. for Life participants all over the world!

Understanding Emotional IntelligenceEmotional intelligence (EI) is the ability to recognize, understand, and manage our own emotions, as well as recognize, understand, and influence the emotions of others. According to Roth, EI can be broken down into four key components:

1. Self-Awareness: Understanding your own emotions.
2. Self-Regulation: Managing your own emotions.
3. Social Awareness: Recognizing others’ emotions.
4. Relationship Management: Influencing others’ emotions effectively.

Roth emphasizes that emotional intelligence is not just about feeling but also about thinking and behavior. He says, “Emotional intelligence is becoming aware of what is happening in our interactions. It’s stepping into the feelings of others, understanding and regulating according to that so that we can have better interactions, better communication, and get to results quicker.”

The Concept of Energy LeadershipEnergy leadership, a framework developed by Bruce D. Schneider, involves understanding and managing your energy levels to lead more effectively. Roth explains that there are seven levels of energy, ranging from catabolic (negative) to anabolic (positive). These levels influence how we perceive and respond to various situations.

The Seven Levels of Energy LeadershipLevel 1: Victim Energy (I lose)
Thoughts: Helplessness
Feelings: Apathy, Lethargy
Actions: Inaction, Avoidance

Level 2: Conflict Energy (I win, you lose)
Thoughts: Anger, Frustration
Feelings: Aggression, Defiance
Actions: Hostility, Resistance

Level 3: Responsibility Energy (I win, and I hope you do too)
Thoughts: Forgiveness, Cooperation
Feelings: Acceptance, Reconciliation
Actions: Pragmatism, Problem-solving

Level 4: Concern Energy (You win, and I hope I do too)
Thoughts: Compassion, Service
Feelings: Care, Empathy
Actions: Support, Nurturing

Level 5: Reconciliation Energy (We both win)
Thoughts: Opportunity, Synergy
Feelings: Peace, Intuition
Actions: Collaboration, Innovation

Level 6: Synthesis Energy (Everyone always wins)
Thoughts: Connection, Flow
Feelings: Joy, Wisdom
Actions: Effortless Productivity, Intuitive Solutions

Level 7: Absolute Passion (There is no winning or losing, only being)
Thoughts: Objective Thinking, Non-Judgment
Feelings: Absolute Passion, Love
Actions: Creation, Innovation

Practical Application of Energy Leadership in the WorkplaceLater in the episode, Evan Roth discusses how emotional intelligence and energy leadership can transform workplace dynamics. When leaders are aware of their energy levels and those of their team members, they can create a more harmonious and productive environment.

5 Steps to Build Emotional Intelligence and Energy Leadership1. Self-Reflection: Regularly check in with your emotions and energy levels. 2. Seek Feedback: Encourage honest feedback to uncover blind spots. 3. Set Intentions: Define how you want to show up in various situations. 4. Practice Empathy: Understand and resonate with the emotions of others. 5. Continuous Learning: Engage in activities that enhance emotional intelligence and energy awareness.

Overcoming ChallengesRoth notes that a significant challenge in building emotional intelligence is the discrepancy between perceived and actual self-awareness. While 90% of people believe they are self-aware, only 10% actually are. To bridge this gap, Roth suggests leveraging tools like the Johari Window to uncover blind spots and improve self-regulation.

Managing Catabolic EnergyCatabolic energy (levels 1 and 2) can be particularly detrimental in the workplace, leading to silos, team dysfunction, and poor results. Roth provides practical strategies for managing catabolic energy:

• Acknowledge It: Recognize when you or others are in a catabolic state.
• Shift Focus: Move from a self-centered perspective to a collaborative one.
• Encourage Positivity: Foster a culture of feedback and support.

Evan Roth explains, “When we’re in catabolic energy, we are stuck with myopic self-focus. I like to ask myself, when I’m in one and two, what choices am I missing?”

Where to Find More From Evan RothThe conversation with Evan Roth on The Leadership Habit Podcast highlights the profound impact of emotional intelligence and energy leadership on personal and professional development. By understanding and managing our emotions and energy levels, we can become more effective leaders and create positive, productive workplaces.

For more insights and to connect with Evan Roth:

• Visit his website: coachevanroth.com
• Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/evanjroth

If you want to learn more about how Crestcom L.E.A.D.R. can help your team develop their emotional intelligence, business acumen and more, click HERE to get a free 2-hour Leadership Skills Workshop today!

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In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall sits down with leadership advisor, best-selling author, and speaker Tony Martignetti to discuss one of the most critical skills for leaders today: navigating change. Tony is known for his deep insights into leadership and his popular podcast, The Virtual Campfire. Tune in to learn invaluable strategies on how to embrace chaos and lead effectively through turbulent times.

Meet Tony Martignetti, Chief Inspiration OfficerTony Martignetti is a leadership advisor, best-selling author, podcast host, speaker, entrepreneur, idea generator, people connector, and curious adventurer. He brings over 30 years of business and leadership experience and extreme curiosity to elevate leaders and equip them with the tools to navigate through change and unlock their true potential.

Before becoming the founder and Chief Inspiration Officer of Inspired Purpose Partners, Tony was a finance and strategy executive with experience working with some of the world’s leading life sciences companies. Along his career journey, Tony also managed small businesses and ran a financial consulting company.

Understanding the Resistance to ChangeJenn opens the conversation by acknowledging a universal truth: many people, including herself, find change challenging. Tony emphasizes that most resistance to change stems from a lack of control. He explains, “Most of the change that we have in our life is not self-imposed. When it’s something that we have no control over, there is this feeling of being out of control, feeling like there’s no agency.”

The Rapid Pace of Change in Today’s WorldTony highlights that the pace of change has accelerated dramatically, especially with technological advancements and global disruptions like the COVID-19 pandemic. He notes that today’s changes often have wide-ranging impacts on various aspects of our lives, making it crucial for leaders to develop the skills to navigate these complexities effectively. “Change is rapidly increasing, and it’s impacting much more parts of our lives. One tweak and instead of a firestorm of activity, that’s where we’re at,” says Tony.

Key Strategies for Navigating Change1. Expand Your Vision, Narrow Your Focus: Tony introduces his model for navigating change, which involves stepping back to see the broader picture (expanding your vision) and then focusing on specific, actionable steps (narrowing your focus). This approach allows leaders to identify new possibilities and make informed decisions. “When you expand your vision, you’re able to step away from the problems we’re facing and look at what else is possible,” Tony explains. 2. The Grounded Leadership Framework: Tony’s framework consists of three core components: connection, compassion, and curiosity. By applying these internally and externally, leaders can slow down, gain perspective, and make more deliberate, thoughtful decisions. “Before you react, get curious about the situation and your reactions, be compassionate with yourself, and connect with yourself to understand what you want in this situation,” advises Tony. 3. Proactive Thinking: Being proactive rather than reactive is essential. Tony advises leaders to anticipate challenges and remain adaptable, ensuring they can adjust strategies as needed. “It’s important to be proactive in your thinking. As a leader, make sure you have a foundation of where you’re thinking and being open to changing it,” he notes.

The Importance of Connection and CompassionDuring the discussion, Jenn and Tony emphasize the importance of building strong connections within the workplace. Tony explains that feeling connected to colleagues can lead to increased motivation and collaboration. “When you bring your authentic self into the workplace and make those connections, it unlocks a whole new level of innovation,” he says. He also underscores the role of compassion, both for oneself and others, in creating a supportive environment during times of change.

Checking In with Your TeamTony stresses the need for leaders to actively check in with their team members. Silence does not mean agreement, and it’s crucial to have open, honest conversations to understand how everyone is coping with change. “It’s about really having some personal conversations and checking in with people because navigating layoffs, survivor guilt, or heavier workloads requires understanding what’s really going on for people,” Tony explains.

Embracing Change as a Continuous ProcessJenn and Tony conclude by discussing the continuous nature of change. Leaders must accept that change is a constant and develop the resilience to navigate it effectively. By implementing these strategies, leaders can create a more agile, adaptable organization capable of thriving in today’s fast-paced environment.

Where to Learn More and Connect with Tony MartignettiFor more insights and strategies on leadership and navigating change, connect with Tony:

• Visit ipurposepartners.com
• Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tonymartignett1
• Buy his book: Campfire Lessons for Leaders: How Uncovering Our Past Can Propel Us Forward

Navigating change is an essential skill for leaders in today’s world. By expanding your vision, narrowing your focus, and practicing connection, compassion, and curiosity, you can lead your team through uncertainty and create a more resilient organization. If your organization could use help developing change management skills, reach out to Crestcom to schedule a free 2-hour leadership skills workshop today!

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In a world where leadership demands are ever-evolving, finding a balance between professional success and personal fulfillment can seem elusive. In the latest episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sits down with Jack Craven, a seasoned CEO, executive coach, and author of his debut book, Aliveness Mindset: Lead and Live with More Passion, Purpose, and Joy. This engaging conversation unravels the secrets to cultivating an aliveness mindset, a concept that can revolutionize your leadership style and elevate your overall well-being.

Meet Jack Craven, CEO, Executive Coach, Author and More!With a diverse background as a trial lawyer, seasoned CEO, long-time member of the Young Presidents Organization (YPO), mindset author, and C-Suite team facilitator, and distinguished executive coach, Jack Craven has spent the last decade leading countless CEOs and their C-Suite teams into more fulfilling, authentic lives. Jack blends his experience with neuroscience-based practices and insights from the Enneagram personality system to facilitate transformative coaching results. On April 2, 2024, he launched his first book, Aliveness Mindset: Lead and Live with More Passion, Purpose, and Joy, with publisher Forefront Books.

Discover the Aliveness MindsetWhat does it mean to truly feel alive? In this episode, Jack Craven introduces the aliveness mindset as a way to bring the best version of yourself into every day. He defines it as “bringing the best version of yourself into your day-to-day experience.” It’s about identifying moments in your life when you felt most vibrant and using those experiences to guide your daily intentions. Whether it’s feeling the electric buzz of excitement during a successful project or the serene calm of a quiet morning walk, these moments are key to understanding how to live more fully.

Why Leaders Need the Aliveness MindsetThe aliveness mindset isn’t just a feel-good philosophy; it’s a critical tool for effective leadership. Jack explains how this mindset helps leaders achieve deeper connections with their teams, make more impactful decisions, and navigate challenges with resilience. By focusing on how to feel more alive, leaders can unlock their true potential and inspire their teams to do the same. As Jack puts it, “The cost of not living there is being unfulfilled. It’s not reaching your potential.”

Practical Tools and PracticesLater in the episode, Jack shares practical tools that anyone can use to cultivate an aliveness mindset:

• Anchoring Mindsets: These are daily affirmations based on traits that make you feel alive. For example, Jack’s anchoring mindsets include play, connect, learn, grow, and impact. By focusing on these traits, you can set a positive tone for your day.
• Reframing Reactions: Instead of getting bogged down by negative interpretations of events, Jack suggests using curiosity and positive reinterpretation. For instance, seeing a micromanaging boss as someone who is scared and seeking security can change your perspective and reduce stress.
• Magic Words: Simple shifts in perspective can transform relationships. Jack uses the example of interpreting his mother’s actions as care rather than control, which neutralized his reactivity and improved their relationship. “When I made that shift, it was transformational,” he says.

Overcoming Common Blocks to AlivenessJack addresses common blocks like fear, boredom, and feeling unappreciated. He emphasizes that these are often subjective interpretations that can be reframed. “By becoming aware of these blocks and using the tools mentioned, leaders can create a more fulfilling and less reactive life,” Jack explains.

Jenn’s conversation with Jack Craven on The Leadership Habit Podcast is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and personal fulfillment. By adopting an aliveness mindset, you can create a life filled with passion, purpose, and joy.

Where to Find More from Jack CravenDon’t miss all of Jenn and Jack’s insights into embracing an aliveness mindset! Listen to the full episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast with Jack Craven and start your journey towards living and leading with more passion and purpose. If you want to learn more about Jack’s work:

• Visit his website: www.jackcraven.com
• Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jackcraven1
• Buy his book: Aliveness Mindset: Lead and Live with More Passion, Purpose, and Joy

Are you ready to transform your team’s leadership style? Crestcom International offers comprehensive leadership development programs designed to help leaders unlock their full potential. Through personalized coaching and workshops, Crestcom provides the tools and support needed to implement these powerful concepts in your daily life. If you want to see how our program can transform your team, contact us today to schedule a free 2-hour leadership workshop for your whole team! Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to find out more!

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On this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall chats with Robin Daniels about how to create a workplace culture where employees thrive. Creating an environment where employees thrive is more challenging than ever. Whether your organization is trying to get employees back in the office, or trying to build a sense of community in a virtual or hybrid workplace, you don’t want to miss this episode!

Meet Robin Daniels, Chief Business & Product Officer at ZensaiRobin Daniels is the Chief Business and Product Officer at Zensai, (formerly LMS365), the only AI-powered human success platform focused on learning, performance, and engagement that’s built into Microsoft workplace tools. They help businesses create and deliver effective onboarding, compliance, skills growth, leadership development, deep employee engagement and performance tracking for their employees.

Robin has 20+ years of executive experience working at top companies, including Matterport, Salesforce, LinkedIn, WeWork, and Box. He played a key role in Matterport and Box’s hyper-growth and eventual public listing and aims to use his decades of growth, marketing, go-to-market, and leadership development experience to make Zensai his third successful IPO.

The Evolution of Workplace Culture and HRAs the episode opens, Jenn and Robin discuss the current state of employee unhappiness. Robin discusses the changes he has seen in the world of HR technology, saying:

“I’ve noticed few things, you know? The first generation of kind of HR technology or HR philosophy was really around optimizing people for the maximum output of the business. That’s why I think it’s called human resources.

It’s kind of a very cold term when you think about it, right? Think of people as resources. A lot of it’s about optimizing the throughput of what they do. And also just making sure that we cover the basics, of what they need to be successful.

Are we paying them? Are they complying with what we need to be complying with? Are they taking their vacation? Are we tracking them? And so on. And I think we realize this is nothing new.

I think we realized maybe 15 or 20 years ago that this is not enough for the next generation of workers coming into the workforce. We want to make them happier and more successful. We need to change the culture around it. So we thought, well, let’s change the name. Change it from human resources to people and culture.

So now many companies have a people and culture department. And we thought, well, okay, that’s going to change everything by changing its name. Part of that was, oh, let’s also make the office a great place to work with Fussball, free food and snacks and ping-pong tables.

And you know what? I think it helped somewhat because it at least made you wanna at least come to the office because it wasn’t soulless anymore. And maybe it felt more like a group of people, a tribe of people, a comradery, maybe even a family.

And it made you maybe feel like you belonged a little bit more. So I think it, it helped, you know, and I was honestly part of that movement when I was at WeWork. I was the chief marketing officer there and trying to say that at an office where people gathered together, it doesn’t have to be sold.”

Why Are Employees So Unhappy? Later in the episode, Robin and Jenn discuss the elements of employee engagement, and what actually creates a positive workplace culture. Robin explains that he began to realize that there was more to employee happiness than cool office perks:

“So, let’s get the best out of people by giving them a space where they can thrive. But I think we realized here in 2024 that that’s not really actually solving the root cause of the problem. If you look at pretty much all the data, the root cause is that, like you said, most people are unhappy or they want to quit.

And if you look at the reasons why, it’s usually because nobody invests in them. They don’t feel like they’re going anywhere in their life or their career. They don’t see any purpose in what they’re doing. Um, and they feel kind of stuck.

And so when, when you, when you, you dig that well, is a better office space going to solve some of those problems? Probably not, right? I mean, that they’re kind of plastering over the surface of what makes people seem unhappy on the surface.

But if the root cause is that you feel stuck in your life, then free kombucha on tap is not going to help. So we have to address the root, root cause. And it’s one of, the reasons why I’ve created this framework.

Because the question I would get most as a leader– I’ve hired hundreds of people, and led thousands of people– is how do I get ahead? And when people don’t feel like they get a clear answer to that, that’s when you start feeling disengaged or stuck or unhappy. And I started noticing that there are really kind of three, three core elements to it.”

Then Robin shares the three core elements of employee engagement:

• Clarity around their role’s greater purpose
• A path to career growth
• A sense of belonging

How Leaders Can Build Better Organizational CulturesJenn and Robin also delve into some practical strategies for leaders to improve the employee experience. Robin shares that a building positive work culture should be a priority of every leadership team:

“So just, again, if life was easy and there were easy answers, everyone would be doing it. Basically, I think it’s about leadership. It’s about culture, it’s about accountability. It’s about the values that you have. It’s around using the right processes and also using the right technology and platforms.

And this is where Zensai comes in as a business. But I’m under no illusion that, oh, if you use our platform, it’s going to solve everything magically. It’s only part of it, right? It’s part of driving deeper employee engagement, giving people purpose and happiness by giving them clarity, goals, and the opportunity to learn the right skills. Those are all important, but honestly, it requires a lot more than that.

It requires leadership to lean in, having clarity around what you’re trying to achieve, having clarity around how you measure people’s use of the values that I go around to these companies. Every company, I’m sure you’ve seen this all the time, has values that they care about here on top five values and accountability and trust and get done and all that kind of stuff. And then what I usually ask, well, how are you holding people accountable to them to make sure that they matter? Uh, I don’t know. They kind of shrugged their shoulder.”

Where to Find Out More About Robin Daniels and ZensaiBe sure to listen to the full episode to get Jenn and Robin’s insights into preventing a toxic workplace culture by taking a fresh look at your recognition programs. To find more from Robin, or to learn more about Zensai, connect with him here:

• Check out Zensai.com
• Connect with Robin on LinkedIn

Does Your Leadership Team Have the Skills to Build a Workplace Culture Where People Thrive?As always, thanks for listening to The Leadership Habit Podcast! If your organization struggles with employee engagement, Crestcom can help! Contact us today to schedule a free 2-hour leadership workshop for your whole team! Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to find out more!

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In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall welcomes Gerardo Segat, an international leadership coach, to discuss the pressing issue of overcoming the common fears that hold us back as leaders. Gerardo is on a mission to humanize leaders and organizations. As leaders, we tend to put on certain masks and try to hide our insecurities.

However, fear-based leadership can result in harmful behavior like judging, blaming, ignoring, destroying, and attacking, which can significantly impact our leadership effectiveness. Gerardo calls this “destructive leadership” and has made it his life’s work to help people overcome fear and engage in “constructive leadership” instead!

Meet Gerardo Segat, International Leadership CoachGerardo Segat is an international leadership coach whose purpose and legacy are to humanize leadership. Following a wealth of experiences as an entrepreneur, chairman and CEO, Gerardo has used his leadership background to create Preludes– a coaching program created to humanize leaders, organizations, and their stakeholders through creative and powerful original experiences such as decision-making debates, client interaction models, and emotions-focused team meetings.

Gerardo is also the creator of Vebate, a format of decision-making debate, Leader in the Mirror, a format of interview, and Leaderness, a post-graduate training program. For the past decade, he has been a member of the YPO, or Young Presidents’ Organization (the world’s largest community of leaders and CEOs), of which he has been the founder and chair of three chapters in Italy, Switzerland, and globally.

Currently, Gerardo is working on Out As Humans, a performing arts show designed to humanize authentic leaders. Out as Humans is an immersive performance for individuals and groups that creates a space for leaders to be open, trusting, empathetic, and feel a sense of belonging.

Facing Your Fears as a LeaderIn the episode, Jenn and Gerardo discuss how fears and our fear responses are hardwired into human nature. As humans, we are programmed to feel fear in order to survive. However, in today’s world, we aren’t facing dangerous natural predators in nature, so our fear responses must evolve.

Jenn notes, “Sometimes we don’t realize that it’s almost primal to have fear. It’s a natural reaction to our surroundings. But sometimes, the fear actually doesn’t need to be there. And you don’t need it. I don’t want to say you’re manufacturing the fear, but it’s not as life-threatening as you might initially perceive it to be. You know, our relationship with fear is that sometimes we need to actually move it aside. We’re going to survive either way.”

Gerardo agrees, “Yes. And it is mainly because we think we are our minds, but the reality is we have a mind. We’re not our minds. And therefore, you know, a mind is like an arm, a leg, you know, instead, we tend to think that we are our mind, and therefore we’re unable to detach ourselves from, you know, fears, feelings, et cetera.”

The 4 Ultimate Fears Later in the episode, Gerardo explains that there are 4 ultimate fears that can drive our behavior as humans and as leaders:

• We fear a lack of meaning in our lives.
• We fear loneliness.
• We fear dependence on others.
• We fear uncertainty.

These hardwired fears can cloud our judgment, and without self-awareness, we might be leading with fear instead of intention.

Confronting Your Fears to Become a Better LeaderJenn asks Gerardo, “How do we actually overcome these ultimate fears and find that treasure that’s on the other side? Where do you start? I know that you talked about, you know, really first examining, building that self-awareness. The why. Why do we act the way that we do, but where do we go from there?”

Gerardo explains, “Well, on one side, you need to pursue them. Okay? So set an objective to find inner meaning. To find inner love, if you just stay still and say, okay, my objective is inner love, and you go out in the world, and you see that the decisions you make will be completely different, completely different. Set yourself inner objectives that create an opportunity to build, to start.

Start by building self-awareness and then actually accepting that and then analyzing what the consequences are. I have been remedying those consequences. Look at what solutions are there and change. Make the change and take a different path and different action. So the first one is really to set those objectives.”

Then, Gerardo explains more about his work and how it allows leaders to be vulnerable and share their own fragility to overcome their fears and embrace authenticity.

Where to Find More From Gerardo SegatBe sure to listen to the full episode to get more strategies and insights from Gerardo Segat. Then, if you want more information about Gerardo and his work, you can connect with him:

• Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/gerardosegat
• Visit his website: gerardosegat.com

Thank you for listening to The Leadership Habit Podcast! We’d love to show you how Crestcom can help your managers develop the leadership skills they need! Request a free two-hour leadership skills workshop for your team today!

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall welcomes leadership expert and author Ashley Goodall to discuss the problem with change! For decades, “disruption” and “change” have been regarded as crucial to business growth and success. In his latest book, The Problem with Change: And the Essential Nature of Human Performance, Ashley Goodall argues that what has become the accepted norm is actually quite harmful.

Whether it’s a merger, new software or a new office layout, change has become the central goal for many leaders, who pursue it with abandon. Goodall believes that this constant churn of change leads to what he calls “life in the blender”—a perpetual cycle of upheaval, uncertainty, and unease. Goodall believes that this is not only bad for human performance, it’s bad for business!

Meet Ashley Goodall – Author, Leadership Expert, ExecutiveAshley Goodall is a leadership expert who has spent his career exploring large organizations from the inside, most recently as an executive at Cisco. He is the co-author of Nine Lies About Work, which was selected as the best management book of 2019 by Strategy + Business and as one of Amazon’s best business and leadership books of 2019. Prior to Cisco, he spent fourteen years at Deloitte as a consultant and as the Chief Learning Officer for Leadership and Professional development.

His new book, The Problem with Change, was released on May 7, 2024. In it, Goodall reveals how the ongoing turmoil of corporate life creates uncertainty, a lack of control, a sense of not belonging and a loss of meaning. He argues that the recent increases in employee activism and quiet quitting and the record-low levels of engagement at work are, in fact, symptoms of these problems with change.

Goodall draws on extensive research into human psychology and decades of experience leading HR teams to encourage leaders to look beyond wellness and corporate cheerleading and instead focus on the environment they create at work every day. He argues that humans actually need stability to perform at their best. In his book, he explores how this can be found in how we lead, how we talk, and how we value teams, our rituals, and predictability.

As Goodall says, “The ultimate job of leadership is not disruption, and it is not to create change; it is to create a platform for human contribution, to create the conditions in which people can do the best work of their lives.”

The Difference Between Change and ImprovementAs the episode opens, Jenn asks Ashley how he would like to begin their discussion, and he says he would like to begin by asking one question:

“I think one really interesting way into the conversation is to say, is there a difference between change and improvement? Oh, and if, if listeners say, no, there’s no difference, then they should probably just stop listening right now because I’m about to argue there’s a big, big difference between change and improvement.

Change means different, improvement means better, and we can distinguish that. So then you go, well, where does improvement come from? Where does improvement come from in an organization?

And it’s hard to persuade yourself that if most of the people in an organization are struggling to understand what the mission is, or where they fit in, or what team they’re a part of, it’s hard to imagine that much improvement is actually gonna come from them.

Now, if our model of an organization is improvement, and that is something that’s thought up by senior leadership, and sort of cascades gloriously down through the organization. And everybody’s just waiting on a Monday morning to be told what great improvements they’ll make. Then okay, you’re in a slightly different world.

But, if you imagine that the limitation on how good a company is, is how well its people are able to do, which I think is not unreasonable. Then you finish up saying to yourself, well, the ability of the folks on the front line to do their best work every day is a ceiling on how good the company is.

And then you ask yourself, well, what might, what might get in the way of all of that? And you sort of wander into the psychological challenges that an environment of constant change and disruption visits on people.”

The Power ParadoxLater in the episode, Ashley Goodall explains that one of the problems with change is that leaders are unaware of what it is like on the front lines of their organizations on a daily basis. He explains:

“Some of the reasons for that is information really doesn’t travel up a power vacuum very happily. If you are the person who sends the email to the senior leader saying, Hey, this is actually not landing the way you imagined it would, then I think most of us would agree you can’t do that too many times before everybody thinks you’re crazy or looking for a different job.

I think it’s true that leaders certainly in organizations of any size live in a different world from their employees if you think about the amount of money that heads to the C-suite in compensation and stock grants and you think about the lifestyles that support. Whether that is sort of zooming around the world doing corporate stuff or just being in a different sort of tax bracket by a lot than anyone you know, than the more junior employees. And I think it takes a lot of empathy to reach across those sorts of gaps in sort of material circumstances.

And then, if we want to go even further, there’s some very interesting research that’s been done in terms of what happens to somebody psychologically when you put them in charge, and they become just as alarming, they become slightly more psychopathic. They become a little more evil to their fellow humans.

And this is not somebody going, oh, when we sat down to choose all the leaders, we actually chose the psychopaths. That’s not what happens. We chose good people who were good at their jobs. Anointing them as leaders turned them into people who, in the most famous experiment, helped themselves to more than their fair share of cookies on the plate and left crumbs all over the table for somebody else to clean up.

Dacher Keltner is the psychologist who did the experiment. And it’s a beautiful experiment because we can all imagine being in the conference room and there’s one cookie left on the plate, and everyone’s sitting there going, well, in human society, it would be rude to help myself to the cookie.

And while we’re all thinking that the leader grabs the cookie, has a bite, leaves crumbs everywhere because they’re the leader and they, they, their brain has been changed by a whole bunch of people saying, you are above us in some way.

So you add all of this up, and you go, well, listen, different financial world. It is very hard to tell a leader what’s going on. And that’s not a criticism of the leaders themselves; it’s just the way that information travels in organizations and the power paradox.

And all of a sudden, you’ve got a bunch of leaders who really are not very much in touch with the results of the decisions they make. And so when they turn around and go, you know what, let’s do a reorg! Looks good. Consultants, by the way, think it’s great. And I love the consultants because they tell me how great I am, and they let me eat the last cookie.

So we’ll have the consultants come in. The consultants think that although we’d centralized last year, this year, we should decentralize because we’ll be more efficient that way. And goodness, that is why we centralized in the first place. So we’ll do the decentralization, and we’ll do a reorg and it’ll be lovely and innovation and change and disruption.

And then they are confused when the people on the front lines go, would you leave it alone? I’m just trying to do my job. And it’s impossible to do it when everything is in flux the whole time.”

What Problem Are You Solving For? Later, Jenn asks what leaders can do to overcome the Power Paradox and better understand what is happening on the front lines of their organizations. Ashley explains that the real irony of the situation is that leaders are driving change, driving disruption, but what is missing is an understanding of what problem they are actually trying to solve.

He explains that while leaders feel a sense of urgency to charge forward, the front-line employees are usually left confused about how they can help. The real problems go unexamined, but leaders start making changes just the same.

He advises getting more comfortable talking about problems throughout the organization. Leaders can ask:

• What are some of the challenges confronting us?
• Can you help us get detailed on what exactly we could do differently?
• Where are some of the root causes of all of these things?

He advises, “If you are a leader and you share a problem, you are giving permission for other people to tell you what doesn’t work from their perspective, too. And you’ll get much, much smarter organizationally about what to aim at.”

Remember the Human Element of ChangeAt the heart of Ashley Goodall’s message is for leaders to remember that people are already dealing with unprecedented amounts of change. He explains:

“I interviewed a bunch of people for the book, and somebody said very poignantly, when people arrive at the office, they have already survived a lot of change that day because they’re living in a world which, you know, for the last four or five year– and then arguably for many years before that– is in tumult, wherever you look.

And you know, we have a little habit at work of saying, well, if we didn’t create change, the sum total of change in our people’s lives would be zero. And somebody said to me, it doesn’t work like that. What happens at work is the 99th change that they have to live through. If we instigate a change or the hundredth change or the hundred first change but people have a lot to deal with in their lives, it’s really hard. We should probably not arbitrarily and carelessly add to the pile.”

Where to Find More From Ashley GoodallBe sure to listen to the full episode to get more insights and advice about successful change management strategies!

Then, to find more from Ashley Goodall:

• Buy his book: The Problem With Change
• Connect on LinkedIn

Does Your Team Need Help Managing Change? If your team struggles with constant change and disruption, Crestcom can help! Contact us today to schedule a free 2-hour leadership workshop for your whole team! Visit crestcom.com/freeworkshop to find out more!

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In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Projjal “JJ” Ghatak, founder and CEO, about performance management. It’s fair to say that most employees and managers dread performance reviews. Too many organizations rely heavily on the traditional annual review.

We’ve all been through it, right? Employees and supervisors fill out a generic form, have a stiff conversation about the form, and then don’t think about it again for another year.

Learning how to manage performance effectively is essential to achieving strategic goals and engaging employees. Don’t miss this episode exploring how to create a more effective performance management strategy that managers and employees can understand and benefit from!

Meet Projjal “JJ” Ghatak, Founder and CEO of OnLoopProjjal Ghatak, the visionary founder and CEO of OnLoop, is at the forefront of revolutionizing team assessment and development. With an impressive background that includes leadership roles at Uber and Accenture, Projjal has established himself as a seasoned executive in strategy and operations. Armed with an MBA from Stanford, he has chosen Singapore as the base for his entrepreneurial endeavors.

As the CEO of OnLoop, Projjal leads a diverse and global team, spearheading the transformation of the future of work through the company’s innovative approach. Projjal is reshaping the industry with cutting-edge technologies and empowering teams to reach their fullest potential. Under his guidance, OnLoop continues to disrupt traditional paradigms and deliver game-changing solutions in team assessment and development.

Simplifying Performance ManagementGhatak is not a fan of old-style performance management, which often involves boring, yearly reviews. He suggests a new approach called “collaborative team development,” which helps teams work better every day. “Performance management feels like a chore. And when something feels like a chore, nobody does it, and nobody enjoys it,” Ghatak explains.

How Culture Drives Performance ManagementDifferent cultures manage performance differently. Ghatak points out that whether a culture is individualistic or group-oriented or whether it values hierarchy can affect how well performance management works. In the episode, Jenn and Projjal discuss how different cultures around the world view feedback and goals differently.

Using Technology to Help Improve Performance ManagementGhatak believes that technology, especially generative AI, can make performance management easier and more effective. He talks about using AI to automatically create useful feedback, which can change how managers and teams interact.

He explains, “I realized over time how much more valuable Gen AI could be to even help us think about day-to-day feedback. And what I say is that as human beings, we are good at making observations and we’re good at having conversations. Those two things are natural states of being.

So if I have a team member and I came out of a meeting, I probably have an observation around, eh, you know, Michael could have prepped a little bit more for that meeting. Maybe he didn’t really answer questions very well. His slides were beautiful. And next time I’d like you to do a little bit more research about the people who are attending the meeting.

That’s easy for someone to do, but that’s not an observation. It’s not feedback. And what we can do with technology now is split up that observation into specific pieces of either “celebrate” or “improve” feedback.”

How AI Helps Leaders Get Performance Management RightLater, Ghatak explains how AI can help managers learn to deliver better feedback, saying, “Essentially, what we able to do in the (OnLoop) app is record a voice observation, right? And then we can analyze that voice observation to identify the pieces of feedback that exist in it.

So, usually, when someone has an observation, there might even be two, three, or four pieces of different feedback hidden in it. Then, you can extract that out and rewrite it in the right form. You might be familiar with Kim Scott’s work in Radical Candor. As she says, all good feedback is direct and kind.

AI can help you convert any observation to a written form that is direct and kind. You can extract behaviors, skills, or organizational values that are demonstrated or not demonstrated in that feedback.

Before generative AI, we had to teach people how to give and receive feedback. Now we can use generative AI to do that for people. And that’s a far more effective way to do it than trying to train people. And so with every new wave of technology, we can solve HR problems in new ways, and feedback is very ripe for disruption with generative AI.”

A Clear Framework for SuccessIn the episode, Ghatak shares that he uses a clear plan to help teams improve.

This plan includes:

• Engagement: Making sure team members care about their work.
• Productivity: Having clear goals so everyone knows what to do.
• Growth: Offering regular feedback to help people get better at their jobs.

Where to Find More from ProjjalBe sure to listen to the full episode to hear more of Projjal Ghatak’s insights about the need to change how we think about performance management. By using new tools and thinking about personal and cultural differences, companies can help employees do their best work and be more engaged.

To connect with Projjal “JJ’ Ghatak:

• Find him on LinkedIn
• Visit His Website

Do you want to learn more about Crestcom L.E.A.D.R., our interactive leadership development program and how it can help managers become better leaders? Visit our website to learn more about booking a free leadership skills workshop for your team!

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In this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall, and professional coach Susan Ireland delve into the practical aspects of showing up as the leader you want to be. As leaders, we often have a vision of how everything should work, who we should be, and how to succeed. However, those visions rarely work out as planned!

When the going gets tough, sometimes we are our own biggest obstacle to success. With her wealth of experience, Susan shares practical insights on how to overcome these challenges and show up as the best version of yourself!

Meet Susan Ireland, PCC, MSM, TILT 365Susan Ireland is an ICF-certified professional coach, leader, dynamic speaker and podcast host who inspires enduring, transformative change. She works with leaders at all levels to enhance leadership and business acumen, encourage self-discovery, and turn challenges into positive results.

As Co-Founder of Seasons Leadership, a professional coaching and consulting services business, she works with her partner, Debbie Collard, to make leadership excellence the worldwide standard. A self-proclaimed “accidental podcast host,” Susan also launched the Seasons Leadership Podcast with Debbie, which is now in its 5th season!

Prior to her career as a coach, Susan built deep leadership experience during her 30-year career at Boeing. Holding key business operations leadership roles such as the Director of Business Operations for the 787-9 and 787-10 Development Airplane Programs, Susan navigated the complexities of large global organizations. She played a key role on the original leadership team that built and established a new digital aviation business for Boeing Commercial Airplanes. Following her time with Boeing, Susan played a strategic role within a start-up company that developed, manufactured, and installed hydrogen systems on diesel engines.

Susan’s expertise in steering the design, implementation, and management of business processes gives her a unique understanding of the intricate workings of businesses, from large enterprises to small start-up organizations.

Do You Know What Kind of Leader You Want to Be?As the episode opens, Jenn and Susan discuss the different stages of life and leadership and then discuss the obstacles people face on their leadership journey.

Susan shares, “First of all when you talk about the leader in your head, yeah, I think that it’s a really interesting thing because oftentimes people don’t even think about that. They’re just reacting or behaving like unconsciously. So it’s taking a moment first to think about who am I? What are my values? How do I want to leave? What lead, what’s important to me? And that having that self-reflection at first, I think is the foundation of everything. Because otherwise, you are groundless.

Because life in the world is pretty chaotic. And so if you don’t have that foundation, you’re just flipping from one thing to another thing to another thing. And the people around you don’t know who you are or where what you stand for. So that’s the first thing.”

If you think like, how do I show up as the leader I want to be? You need to define who that leader is, then you have a target, then you can assess yourself. Like, am I showing up the way I want to be? And if I’m not, where are those gaps, and where do I need to work?

What’s Stopping You From Becoming The Leader You Want to Be?Later Susan and Jenn talk about one of the biggest obstacles showing up as the kind of leader you really want to be– fear. Jenn asks Susan for her advice for someone who is being held back by fear.

Susan explains, “So if you’re clear about who you want to be and what you want to achieve– so you’re clear about that, and then you make a plan, I wanna do this. But you don’t execute that plan for various reasons. Mostly because of fear.

Maybe you can’t take that first step. Being aware that you are where you are gives you a choice. So then you have a conscious choice: I can do this, or I can not. It’s a choice. You’re fine either way, you know, you can say, I’m not gonna take steps toward my goal. I’m gonna stay here because I’m too afraid. But then you kinda have to live with yourself.”

Making the Choice to Show Up as the Leader You Want to BeLater in the episode, Susan and Jenn delve into some strategies for showing up as the best version of yourself and achieving your potential as a leader. Susan shares her strategies, including:

• Getting grounded in your values
• Connecting with others
• Finding a mentor or coach
• Being kind to yourself

As the episode closes, Jenn and Susan talk about the importance of taking better care of yourself in order to become the best leader you can be. Susan explains that you can’t be your best self when you are not feeling physically and emotionally well.

Jenn agrees, saying, “I don’t know whether people realize that. You know, I think I don’t. I talk about about burnout and resilience a lot with organizations, and I hear it from everyone. They are experiencing burnout. Healthcare, for example, is really being challenged with that right now. And all the way down to a group of conservationists who work on protecting our lands Every industry, every single industry I’m noticing, is experiencing burnout in some way. People are tired. People are not operating from their best, most rational capacities.”

Susan adds, “Which kind of comes back to the showing up as the leader that you want to be, and how you envision this is part of it. You have to take care of yourself. Being a leader, I think I get a little bit like my emotional temperature goes up on this because leaders affect a lot of people around them just by how they show up. And it’s our responsibility to do the best we can. We can’t, we are not perfect people, but doing the best we can, taking care of ourselves and knowing our values and showing up positively have a huge impact on the world. And I don’t know why we don’t do it, but we don’t.”

Where to Find More from Susan IrelandBe sure to listen to the full episode to get more insights into growing as a leader and a person. If you want to find out more about Susan and her work with Seasons Leadership, you can connect with her here:

• SeasonsLeadership.com
• Connect on LinkedIn
• Check out her Podcast
• Check out their Patreon

Thanks for listening to The Leadership Habit Podcast! If you want to learn more about developing your leadership skills, or your team’s, contact a Crestcom training expert near you!

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sits down with Dr. Caprice Hollins to learn how to have difficult conversations about race. Leaders at all levels are learning to lean into this topic because it impacts our lives, our workplaces, and the world around us. How can we, as leaders, learn to move through discomfort and have challenging conversations that lead to a more equitable world?

Meet Dr. Caprice Hollins, Co-founder of Cultures ConnectingCaprice D. Hollins was born and raised in Seattle, WA. She received a doctorate in Clinical Psychology with an emphasis in Multicultural and Community Psychology from the California School of Professional Psychology. Dr. Hollins has over 25 years of experience facilitating race-related workshops. She co-founded Cultures Connecting in 2008, and her second book, Inside Out: The Equity Leader’s Guide to Undoing Institutional Racism, was recently published. She’s a Seattle 2020 TEDx Speaker on What White People Can Do to Move Race Conversations Forward.

When asked to introduce herself to The Leadership Habit Audience, Caprice said, “I am a licensed clinical psychologist. That’s what my doctorate is in. And I minored in what is now referred to as DEIB. It was multicultural and community psychology. I taught graduate school on issues around multicultural perspectives, focusing specifically on race. I just released a book, Inside Out: The Equity Leaders Guide to Undoing Racism, which I’m really proud of. Did a TEDx talk.

Then my company is called Cultures Connecting. What we do is we help organizations have what you said, these very uncomfortable, difficult conversations about race, and provide them with strategies and tools and ways of thinking so that people can work together collectively in their organizations to not only dismantle racism but sexism, ableism, homophobia, Islam, Islamophobia, all of these isms, this othering that we do as we continue to marginalize people because of an identity that they hold.”

What Inspired You to Pursue DEIB in Your Career? Jenn asked Caprice what inspired her to pursue her work on multicultural and community psychology, or DEI. And Caprice explained, “Thank you for asking that, Jenn. So, I’m biracial. My mom’s white. My older brothers and sisters are white– from her first marriage– with blonde hair and blue eyes. My mother divorced and got pregnant with me a number of years later. And you know, this is a time in our country when interracial marriages, let alone relationships, were illegal in some states. And so I grew up in this very diverse family. My brother is gay, and I always knew. He was Ms. Gay Seattle one year. Love bragging about that. My dad married a woman from Thailand.

When I went to grad school, all of our courses looked at the topic through an equity lens. This was long before we used language like equity or talked about things like privilege or bias. And I was blown away, Jenn.

I was on an emotional re roller coaster around as I looked at how I had been socialized and things that I had said and done that colluded with racism essentially. And it became a very liberating experience for me to acknowledge, yeah, I do stereotype. And yes, I do have identities where I hold privilege, and I wanted other people to be able to have that same experience of deconstructing how they’ve been socialized so that they could reconstruct a new way of being in the world.

It’s very freeing, too, instead of working really hard to say, I don’t notice, or I don’t want you to reveal a stereotype. Instead, be prepared that someone might say to you, Hey, I think you were biased in that moment. And say, tell me more about it because you know, it’s a possibility. Or to have someone check your privilege and be like, wow. Yep, there it is. You know, it just shows up in all different kinds of ways in my life. And it feels so much better not to run from it but to lean in it, look at where it’s coming from, and then see, Hey, what can I do differently? How can I show up differently?”

Why is it Important to Have These Difficult Conversations at Work? Later in the conversation, Jenn asks Caprice to explain why it is so important for leaders to be able to talk about race or have productive conversations about diversity.

Caprice shared, “That awareness of ourselves and how we’ve been racialized or socialized and that knowledge of other people’s experiences who are different from ours. Learning about those things and continually growing in those areas will help us to get better at having hard conversations.

When we can get to the hard conversations, then collectively, we can look at things and ask different questions about things that we see happening in our organization. We can work together to think about what we can do to create change.

The conversation will help us get to the action, to the undoing or the addressing of the institutional “isms” in our organization. We can’t look at our hiring practices and how bias is embedded in those practices. Then how will we ever work collectively together to change our hiring process? So the conversation can inevitably lead to people working together to create that change.”

Why is This Kind of Conversation so Difficult?Jenn agrees that these conversations are so important, saying, “Yes. Right. So if you’re a leader and you’re hearing this– hiring, how we collaborate and work together, how we move change forward, how we adjust processes, how we create equity, there are so many reasons why this conversation is still important to have, even if you feel like you took that one class.

This is an ongoing conversation, but let’s get to the barrier. We’re talking about how to have these difficult conversations at work about race. Why is it hard? Why do you think, like from what you see, why is it hard for people to do it?”

Caprice agrees and shares her perspective, “I think for people of color, it’s hard to engage white people because, in the process, white people will often become defensive. I’m not like that. I’m different from other white people. They will take that kind of calling in that kind of like trying to share with the white person you said or did something that was harmful.

They’ll take that and they’ll personalize it as if it means they’re a bad person. Rather than receive it as a gift. Here’s an opportunity for me to think more deeply about how I’ve been socialized. So people of color often don’t wanna take the risk because then, if you’re my boss or you’re my coworker, it might affect the relationship. If you’re my coworker, it might affect how you treat me. If you’re my boss, I might experience micro-invalidations in the process.

For example, you’re being too sensitive. That’s not what I meant. Maybe they didn’t mean it that way. So, for self-preservation, I go to work and just kind of do what I need to do. I have all of these experiences. I go home, and I talk about the experiences that I had rather than that burden of trying to push, you know, and create change for white people.

I think the conversation is hard because, again, I think they see it as a good and bad narrative versus you’ve been socialized. I do believe there are some people that no matter what you say, no matter what you do, no matter what research you present to them, there is nothing that is going to make them curious. Even just a little bit about how someone’s experiences might be different from their own, they are too heavily invested in continuing to see things the way that they see them.

Ultimately, I think to myself, what do white people have to give up in order to entertain that the reality for people of color is very different than the reality for them? And what they have to give up is their way of thinking, what they’ve spent a lifetime believing, the way they engage the work that they have to now do that’s different from what they’re comfortable with doing for many white people is too risky and, and they don’t wanna give up that comfort, right? It’s a lot of work. It’s hard work to look at how you’re socialized, and then you have to change how you behave, how you lead, and how you think. And so that investment, getting people to do that, is probably one of the bigger challenges.”

Getting it Right Requires VulnerabilityAs leaders, having conversations about race can be scary. People feel afraid of being misunderstood or afraid they will be perceived as a bad person. Jenn explains her fear of making mistakes, saying, “I’m not sure if our audience can even tell, by the sensitive nature of this podcast, I feel like I’m a pretty unreserved person, but I am more tentative in how I am talking because I want to make sure I am being respectful and curious. And so I want to share that because I think part of me is like, I still have the fear of getting it wrong, and I know that there’s still work to do, and I’m not even aware of some of the ways that I might get it wrong. But could we talk a little bit more about the fear of making mistakes and the fear of getting it wrong?”

Caprice replies, “First of all, thank you for that vulnerability, Jenn, right? Like, that’s the work, right? And so, yeah, I notice what I’m feeling in my body right now. I’m walking on eggshells or whatever it is, being very thoughtful or careful about my words for fear that I’m going to make a mistake.

And even as I teach people, for example, ask questions with genuine curiosity, Hey, just do it. I get it wrong. A lot of times. I just have this as a strategy so that I can either circle back around, try it again, or think, okay, the next time I have that opportunity, what are some of the questions that I could have asked? But I do think that naming your fears is an important part of this work because oftentimes if we don’t identify it, if we don’t surface it, our fears will keep us from engaging. And then no learning happens, right?

We’re actually controlled by our fears. And so I’m afraid too, I’m afraid of losing credibility. I’m afraid of, you know, making mistakes, getting it wrong. All of the things that you said, I tend to sweat, right? I would say it’s an I work hard for my money kind of moment because somebody has said something, and I’m having a reaction, and now I need to facilitate it or lean into it.

It’s not an easy thing to do. And this is why we tell people that your hope for what you want to have happen, the changes you want to see in yourself, your community, and your families, has to be greater than what your fears are. Otherwise, you won’t do it, right? You won’t, you won’t lean in. And so, you know, that’s very real.”

Where to Find More from Dr. Caprice HollinsBe sure to listen to the full episode on your favorite podcast streaming service to get her advice and strategies for navigating these difficult conversations at work! You can also connect with her to learn more in several ways:

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Visit CulturesConnecting.com
• Watch her TEDx Talk
• Buy her book, Inside Out: The Equity Leader’s Guide to Undoing Institutional Racism

The post How to Have Difficult Conversations about Race with Dr. Caprice Hollins appeared first on Crestcom International.

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How Reading Fiction Can Make You A More Effective LeaderOn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we explore a unique perspective on leadership with Melanie Bell, the founder of Leaders Who Fiction. Melanie shares how reading fiction can make you a better leader, offering a compelling reason to pick up a good book. Don’t miss this episode if you’re ready to explore a new dimension of leadership development!

Meet Melanie Bell, Co-Founder of Strategic PieceMelanie Bell earned a BA in international development from McGill University in Montreal and an MBA from Rice University in Houston. She is the co-founder of Strategic Piece, a company that helps B2B businesses generate revenue growth by bringing together their marketing, sales, and service teams around an information-driven customer experience. However, Melanie also founded Leaders Who Fiction, an online book club and community for people who want to improve their leadership skills by reading fiction.

Melanie wants to give leaders permission to read fiction again! Her mission is to help people develop leadership skills by reading fiction and participating in intellectual business-oriented conversations centered around a selected novel.

She explains her passion project, saying, “So, in essence, it’s a monthly online book club. We meet over Zoom once a month, and we’ve all read the same book. And so we all get on Zoom and, for an hour, discuss the book like a traditional book club would. We’ve all read the book, though with a slightly different perspective, which is being really intentional about picking out the leadership themes and lessons from what we’ve been reading.”

Why Should Leaders Read More Fiction? Melanie explains the benefits of reading, saying, “ I think a lot of people are reading business books or getting podcasts and having a lot of content downloaded that way. And I feel like there’s a time and a place for business books. I always feel bad when I sound like I’m knocking them and like, they’re not important, but do I think that there’s a purpose for them.

But what I really love about fiction is that when we read from a neuroscience perspective, our brains switch into simulation mode. And so, in a novel, we’re actually walking around in a protagonist’s shoes. So whoever that main character is, we’re really, our mind has gone into this very immersive environment and walking around in this totally other wor different world. So it’s really good from a mental health perspective to unplug and, and you know, put your, transport yourself into another time and place.

But the other great thing is you’re also fiction writers are really trying to explore the gray area and moral dilemmas and ethical dilemmas, whereas a lot of times in business books, cases, case studies that will, will get broken down and everything’s very black and white. So it tends to be pretty obvious what somebody should do in a given scenario. And so I just think that there are a lot of benefits in terms of that simulation in terms of building empathy.”

The Hidden Benefits of Reading FictionLater in the episode, Melanie and Jenn delve into some of the lesser-known benefits of reading, including:

• Stress Management—A 2009 study from Mindlab International at the University of Sussex found that reading reduced stress levels by 68%. That made it more effective than other soothing activities like taking a walk or listening to music.
• Increased Attention Span – Blocking out time for undistracted reading will improve your ability to focus for longer periods of time.
• Strengthens Empathy – Reading fiction allows you to put yourself in another person’s shoes, whether they are similar or different to your own experience. This develops empathy, a key leadership skill.
• Improves Strategic Thinking – As readers navigate a book’s plot twists and turns, they engage intellectually with the story, imagining what they might do next or how they might solve this problem. This is similar to role-playing and gives leaders practice thinking strategically.
• Builds Communication Skills – Reading also strengthens communication skills by improving vocabulary, grammar and writing skills.

How to Make Reading a Leadership HabitLater in the episode, Jenn and Melanie discuss people’s struggles with finding time for reading or with their attention spans.

Melanie shares, “I mean, putting my marketing hat on right now, it’s like every piece of content people want is shorter and shorter. And we have shorter attention spans, and we kind of need to start countering that so that we can keep our focus and really engage in deep thought work, for example. Reading novels definitely helps. So, you can sit down and read for six minutes, and that’s okay, but at the same time, maybe you sit down and read for a longer stint and work on your focus skills too.”

Jenn agrees, “I think that’s true. My partner talked about how he loves TikTok, and in the same token, he also said that he thinks that TikTok is making his attention span worse, but yet he keeps picking up TikTok , and I keep telling him to read a book . So know that, of course, technology is going to affect our brains. So, maybe you do need to get back into the habit of reading, and maybe it starts with two minutes, and then you get to six minutes. But at least you’re starting to build the habit.”

Where to Find More From Melanie BellBe sure to listen to the full episode to get Melanie’s reading recommendations, and learn more about what’s happening next with Leaders Who Fiction!

To find out more about Melanie Bell:

Connect on LinkedIn

Visit Leaders Who Fiction

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In this week’s episode, Jenn Dewall talks to workplace conflict expert Carol Bowser about how leaders can get comfortable handling conflict. Most people would rather avoid conflict than manage it! However, part of leadership is learning to have difficult conversations, drive collaboration and get better results.

Meet Carol Bowser, JD – Workplace Conflict ExpertCarol Bowser, J.D. is a workplace conflict expert. After practicing Employment Law for several years, she realized that people gain more from working together to resolve workplace conflict than from going through a lawsuit. This insight led her to found Conflict Management Strategies.

Carol has discovered that conflict is a universal experience. Wherever there are people, there is bound to be conflict. Her mission is to teach leaders the skills to recognize and address conflict before it jeopardizes working relationships and affects the entire organization. With over 20 years of experience, she has identified common threads in workplace conflict and is committed to empowering individuals at all levels to enhance their conflict-resolution abilities.

Conflict Management is a Leadership SkillAs the episode opens, Jenn asks Carol why people are so unprepared to deal with conflict, and she explains:

“Well, I often say that I think that once you reach a certain age, there’s a belief that there’s a magic wand that all of a sudden that you have what I call kind of conflict resolution literacy, and you have financial literacy, and you have just how to navigate in the world literacy. Where it’s just supposed to be, well, it just happens, and it doesn’t just happen.

It is a skillset. And the more we talk about soft skill sets, the more I’m of two minds about that one. I recognize that it is a skill set. It’s not just thinking about it. It’s doing it.

And the people that do it well have a mastery of the basics. They go back to the basics, and they don’t take those basics for granted. If you look at any kind of professional as an athlete, they are masters of the basics in executing. And you just have to be able to practice, practice, practice.”

Why Do We Avoid Dealing with Conflict at Work? Later, Jenn asks Carol why people try to avoid conflict. Carol shares:

“Because It’s a time suck. It’s an energy suck. And I’ll say particularly for leaders, I hear many different times, Hey, they’re grownups. They should just be able to figure it out. You know, why am I stepping in?

Because if I’m stepping in, then I’m doing their job, and I don’t have time to do their job, and if I’m doing their job, why do they have their job? So, I think it’s like two sides of the same coin. Some managers believe that it’s other people’s responsibility, but they’re, they know that you may have many different leaders. Leaders and maybe kind of subleaders who are advocating for themselves. And they really do believe there’s a way they will be able to do it.

And leaders, if that is happening, then you actually do need to step in and give some guidance on how you would like to see decisions resolved. Then, on the flip side, there are always power dynamics at work, and people are very wary about upsetting or expending social capital. So yeah, it’s a little bit more complicated than, you know, we just need to get over it and do it.

There’s a lot of talk about it, I think it came, if I was to do a little bit of an origin story search, I think the term psychological safety and Jenn, check me if your memory is or your experience is different, came from like a study from Google about what makes really high performing teams, and they talked about the ability to give criticism, to go into conflict, to share perspectives with the team that made it really great.

So in the zeitgeist, we talk a lot about psychological safety, but you know, a lot of people don’t feel safe at work because they’re concerned about ticking their boss off. And that’s scary. So whether or not that is a theoretical threat or an actual threat of being the bad boy or the bad girl, or the whiner or the whistleblower or that guy or that girl, or the rabble-rouser, the drama king or queen.

I mean, we all have opinions about people, and I think our opinions about people influence our approach to conflict.”

The Difference Between Argument and ConflictLater in the episode, Carol explains that many people hear the word conflict and immediately think of having an argument. She notes there is a difference, saying,

“I say that I don’t like arguments because that is just people getting positional and undermining and stating their position over and over and over again, like with no resolution. I like conflict because conflict means something important is at stake. There’s an interest or a value, and you can work with helping people articulate their interests and values.

It gives you a little bit of a window, you know, to kind of work your way outta the, you know, the little trapped room of conflict, of trying to listen and learn what’s important to the other people and try to be able to articulate in a way that other people can hear what’s important to you. And I think if you just talk about arguments, arguments, arguments, then there’s something so emotionally unsatisfying of saying, well, we’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I think you can say we can agree that we have different experiences. We can agree we have different perspectives. We can agree that we may approach something differently.

However, when most people say they want to agree to disagree, they really don’t. That means that you’re going to leave it alone, and you’re not going to be emotionally or psychologically hung up on it. And you’re not going to start talking about what a “jackalope” the other person is because they don’t agree with your way of thinking or the way that you want them to act.

I have to say though, there are some “jackalopes” out there. I mean, it’s just, there are some people who, there are people who are difficult and there, and there’s also mental illness and, you know, addiction and a lot of heavy things that people are going through in their life. So they may not be at their best to be able to, to kind of engage in a conflict resolution process. And they, they may be stuck in argument because either they, they don’t have the bandwidth, they don’t know how, or there’s something else going on.”

Strategies for Conflict ManagementIn the episode, Carol provides the listeners with several actionable strategies for handling conflict in the workplace. You’ll have to listen to the episode to get them all, but one of our favorites was her advice about how to change the way you ask questions! She explains:

“Don’t say “why.” Okay, so this is another tool I learned from my mediator days. In the US culture, and again, this is kind of predominantly US culture, when people ask why. As a mediator and in conflict resolution, it is the rare exception that I would ask a question formatted with a why. Because “why” does one or two things.

It gets people who are very assertive to kind of get in your face about it and demonstrate their rationale, and it compels them to get more positional because they’re justifying, justifying, justifying why they took the position that they did.

At the same time, if people are retreating or avoiding, they’ll retreat and they’ll fall into silence. When I train new mediators, I will say it’s a little bit like a dog, but asking why can either be perceived an aggressive move. And if you’ve got a dog and they sense aggression, they’ll be aggressive back. But they also, they may start submitting and you really don’t want that at all…

…Most every question can be formatted in the what. Tell me what. Not tell me what you were thinking, but tell me what framework you were using. Tell me what of the various priorities you put one in front of the other, tell me things that you considered but decided not to bring forward.

As a leader, you want to know what people’s thinking is, what their paradigms are, and for them to be, be successful. They also kind of need to know what your analytical framework or frameworks are. Because if you want them to be autonomous, they still have to defend their decision-making to you, and you kind of have to defend their decision-making to others.

But being able to set aside the whys and ask a lot more curiosity questions to kind of really understand where people are coming from. But again, make sure it’s not interrogating. Make sure that you balance how many questions you’re asking versus giving them the time and opportunity to speak.”

Where to Find More from Carol BowserBe sure to listen to the full episode for more tips for effective conflict management! If you would like to learn more about Carol and her work, click on the links below!

• Connect with Carol on LinkedIn
• Follow her on Facebook or Twitter
• Visit her website: conflictmanagementstrategies.com

The post Conflict Management in Leadership with Carol Bowser appeared first on Crestcom International.

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On this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn has a conversation with Dominic George about overcoming your fears to build a growth mindset. Dominic will share four common fears that hold us back and share five strategies for overcoming them to find success.

Meet Dominic George, Leadership Coach and Founder of Vision Leadership for LifeDominic George is a seasoned leadership coach with a Master’s from Columbia University. His coaching style blends mentorship and empowerment, focusing on equipping his clients with the tools and insights they need to navigate challenges and emerge as influential leaders.

Dominic is the founder of Vision Leadership for Life, a business focused on creating a supportive space where black men who are mid-level professionals to senior leadership roles can harness their strengths, navigate obstacles and achieve senior leadership roles.

What is a Growth Mindset? As the episode opens, Jenn asks Dominic to explain what a growth mindset is to the audience, in case it is a new concept to some.

Dominic explains, “Yeah, so I’m going to break it down in some simple terms. Especially for the people who are not familiar with a growth mindset.

So there are two different distinctions that I like to play on. There’s the fixed mindset where often you’ll hear this in people who are of more mature age. Where you’re like, oh, they’re just stuck in their ways. They only do things a certain way. And how you level set that is they have a fixed mindset of how things need to be based on their experiences. So they always sort of show up in the same way all the time because that’s how they see the world. So I find that as a fixed mindset, you’re just consistently doing the same thing over and over again, and you only see things from one perspective.

A growth mindset is the ability to look at life, look at your environment, and see things differently from multiple different angles. So it’s pulling in information from education spaces, professional spaces, your own experiences, your cultural background, all the things that help you understand the world differently. You’re pulling in that information to see things differently.

Specifically, when I think about a growth mindset, I think about thinking about the impossible in order to make it possible. That’s how I categorize a growth mindset.”

The Four Common Fears Holding You BackLater, Jenn and Dominic discuss the importance of developing a growth mindset so you can see challenges and failures as opportunities to learn and grow. Dominic explains that in his work with clients, he sees four common fears that keep people stuck in a fixed mindset and hold them back from success:

• Fear of Rejection: As humans, we all want to belong, to be seen and heard– or hired. However, rejection is part of our personal and professional experience. Whether it is negative feedback or not getting a promotion, we have to find the courage to embrace it as a learning experience.
• Fear of Success: When people are on the brink of achieving a goal, they can start to question themselves or suffer from imposter syndrome. Sometimes it is a fear of failure, but it can also be a fixed mindset holding them back from the next level in their careers.
• Fear of Being Wrong: This fear can cause people not to speak up in meetings or not share their knowledge or expertise out of fear of being wrong or making mistakes.
• Fear of the Unknown: This fear is deeply embedded in human psychology. Our deepest instincts tell us to avoid the unknown in order to stay safe. However, in the modern world, in our careers, there is a lot of uncertainty we have to overcome to succeed.

Growth Mindset Strategy # 1: Don’t Call It a SetbackDominic’s first strategy for overcoming your fears to build a growth mindset is to embrace challenges as an opportunity.

He explains, “When I think about challenges as an opportunity, it’s about really facing your fears, like that starting point of just how I ended, where if you name what the actual challenges you name, what the fear is that’s associated with that challenge, then you could see it as an opportunity versus a setback. Most people, when they see the challenge, they’re often think about what is, or they’re often thinking about what is the end result of that solution. And you don’t need the end result to start off with. You just need the starting point to actually get moving. And most people get by the endpoint because everybody wants to be at the end first. And I just say, slow down, figure out what the challenge is so that you can embrace it and lean into the opportunity around it.”

Growth Mindset Strategy #2: Learn from FailuresDominic’s next strategy is a core part of embracing a growth mindset. He explains, “The next strategy that I really coach people around is learning from your set, your setbacks and failures because that is the true possibility to move forward as well. We’re always learning, we’re always growing as individuals. And we often fear, like I said, the fear of success, but we get stuck in those places of failure. And so I coach people to really sit down and reflect and be an observer of what happened at every point of that moment where you either had a setback or a failure because that is the moment where you get to really shift your mindset. Again, what’s impossible right now gets to be possible later.”

Growth Mindset Strategy # 3: Become a Lifelong LearnerDominic also encourages leaders to embrace lifelong learning. He says, “So number three is to really seek continuous learning opportunities. It’s so important that we’re continuously learning and growing because where you are today is not where you’re gonna be long term. In order to really embody that growth mindset, you have to pull in knowledge from different areas, whether that’s podcasts, listening to Jenn, or that’s listening to different leaders at different conferences or going to a workshop reading books. There are so many different ways that we get to learn!”

Growth Mindset Strategy #4: Develop a Positive AttitudeNext, Dominic explains the importance of an open mind and a good attitude, saying, “I coach people to develop a positive and open attitude. If you are one of those people who are just closed off to life, you’re closed off to what’s possible, you usually fit into that big mindset that I spoke about earlier. But it’s so important to be open to it.

When you’re open and you have a positive mindset, you develop a positive attitude towards what’s around you. You’ll find that people are going to gravitate towards you. They’re going to want to be around you. And because you’re open to the conversation, you’re going to just automatically learn from those individuals who are choosing to be in your presence, choosing to be led by you, choosing to be in community with you.”

Growth Mindset Strategy #5: Encourage Growth in OthersPart of great leadership is helping others grow and learn! Dominic explains, “The fifth strategy is to really encourage growth in others. When we’re teaching others how to fix their mindset, we’re automatically reinforcing how we need to set our own mindset around the possibilities. And so I really encourage anyone, whether you’re a leader in your family, you’re a leader of yourself, you’re a leader of organizations, of businesses. Wherever you’re leading, you have the opportunity to really encourage growth in others and be a community and conversation with other people around you.”

Where to Find More from Dominic GeorgeDon’t forget to listen to the full episode for all of Dominic and Jenn’s advice and insight. Opportunities for growth are all around you!

To connect with Dominic:

• Follow him on LinkedIn
• Email him at: dominic@visionleadershipforlife.com

Thanks for listening to The Leadership Habit Podcast!

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Building Resilience with Coach, Facilitator and Speaker, Russell HarveyIn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Russell Harvey about building resilience. A study by The Resilience Institute found that intentionally building resilience can increase vitality by 43%, focus by 38%, and optimism by 38%, and reduce symptoms of anxiety and distress by 39%. According to research by the World Health Organization, cultivating resilience through training at work can have an ROI of $4 for each dollar invested!

Don’t miss this episode featuring the expertise of coach and speaker Russell Harvey and Leadership Strategist Jenn DeWall as they discuss practical ways to build resilience in yourself and your team.

Meet Russell Harvey, Resilience Coach, Facilitator, and Public Speaker Russell Harvey has over 20 years of experience in learning, leadership and organizational development and is influenced by positive psychology and a strengths-based approach to coaching. His purpose is to positively affect 100,000 people by the year 2025.

Russell focuses on resilience because he truly believes that building it is an opportunity for people to live and lead better lives.

What is Resilience? As the episode opens, Jenn asks Russel to define resilience for the audience. Russel explains:

“So yeah, everyone, listen now. I’d like you to remember resilience in this way. Resilience is about springing forward with learning. I do hear, obviously, the words “bounce back” are used a great deal in relation to the word resilience. And just personally, I often think there’s a bit of a risk to that.

So, we face a challenging life event, then we sometimes say, oh, I’ve gotta bounce back. Now we sort of give a bit of a subconscious instruction to ourselves to go back to how we were. And in the nicest possible sense, we can’t. And clever people, an eye that stood the brain goes, yeah, your brain can’t go back.

So what you need to do from all of life’s experiences is get into the habit– whether it’s good experiences or not-so-good experiences– get into the habit of pausing and reflecting and re-energizing yourself.

In your reflections, you get your learning and making some options and choices about the things that you’re gonna keep doing because they work really well for you and some things that you are gonna stop doing because they haven’t worked well for you in recent times.

So when you do really great resilient reflection, then you actually understand the things that are and aren’t working for you and really find ways to play to your strengths as much as possible. So springing forward with learning is how I would love all your listeners to remember what the definition of resilience is.”

The Power of ReflectionNext, Jenn asks Russell about the importance of reflection in developing resilience. Russell shares his insights, saying:

“So I think it’s good to note that reflection is going on all the time. You know, apparently, we have about 50,000 thoughts a day, and over half of them are negative. So a thought is a reflection, and actually, 90% of my thoughts are from the previous day. And lo and behold, over half of those are negative.

So it’s understanding that any thought and feeling that you’re having is okay. Self-compassion: It’s all right to have the thoughts and feelings that you’re having. And how well do you notice the thoughts that you are having? You know, how much are you being kind to yourself, congratulating yourself, beating yourself up? You know, how self-aware are you that you are doing that? So we are reflecting all of the time because we are thinking all of the time.

And then it would be useful if you sort of consciously make the choice. If you’re not great at reflection, start making it a habit. So all habit-forming exercises, you’ve gotta do what works. So for some people that is daily, some people that’s weekly, some people that’s more consciously fortnightly with a friend, you know, but it’s actually do something a conscious around actually the reflection is what I would suggest to you.

You’ve gotta do what works, and you also have to understand you’ve gotta do it a few times. You’ve gotta repeat it to make sure that you understand what works well about it. So you’re gonna just do what works for you, but do something.”

Are you Coping, Surviving or Thriving? Later in the episode, Jenn and Russell discuss how to build awareness about your current situation. Russell tells Jenn that the goal of building resilience is to be able to thrive, and Jenn asks how we can define what thriving looks like.

Russell recommends increasing your self-awareness by thinking about how you are really doing. He explains:

“It is about understanding how you are then going to shift from the coping, surviving into the thriving space by tapping into your strengths far more. And thinking about this question about how are you that we just talked about? You know, how you answer that question will be different about whether you’re thriving or surviving or coping. So it’ll give you some clues. So people even here now, you know, just get a blank piece of paper and do three columns. Coping, surviving and thriving.

And actually, just write down on these three columns. How do I know when I’m coping, surviving or thriving? Thriving? What am I like, and what do I say? How do I behave? How do people describe me in these different instances? And then, you could immediately give yourself some clues about where you might be.”

Then, they discuss how this tool is helpful for building more self-awareness and learning to recognize when you may be in a bad place and might need to take action to manage stress or reflect on what is going on. Jenn reminds the audience that everyone has ups and downs, so resilience isn’t about toxic positivity; it is about learning what works for you to move out of survival or coping mode in order to thrive.

The Resilience WheelLater, Russell shares another helpful tool for building resilience– The Resilience Wheel. Listeners can find the wheel on his website, or just draw it on a piece of paper. The idea is to score yourself in seven key areas:

Image borrowed from Russell Harvey, theresiliencecoach.co.uk:

Russell explains:

“Yeah, so we’ll talk about all seven, and I’ll just try and give a very brief little there example in each, some of it we’ve talked about already. It’s a bit of a self-assessment tool, just score yourself out of 10 or like put a color to it or a smiley face or, you know, different emoji.

1 Resilience (Attitude)So rate yourself in these different areas. So the heart of resiliency is our attitude. So right at the center of the wheel is our attitude.

And the thing that always fascinates me about that bit, is that our attitude includes our beliefs. I’d like people to remember that a belief is something that we behold to be true without basis in fact. So you’ve gotta challenge your beliefs a lot of the time with your attitude.

2 PurposeThen the next one is purpose. So it’s being curious about whether you actually have a purpose. And the purpose is a little bit more overarching than your goals. Goals help you achieve your purpose. So, my purpose is that by the year 2025, I want to positively affect 100,000 people. And right now, I’m up to 44,212, essentially.

I appreciate that there is some smart goal stuff in there, but the world likes to hear numbers and statistics, you know, so I put that in, and that drives me. It gets me outta bed. It helps me understand how well I need to be able to achieve that and what type of human I want to be. So that’s my purpose.

3 ConfidenceThen we’ve got confidence. Playing to your strengths builds natural confidence and resilience. So confidence is our balance of positive and negative thoughts.

4 AdaptabilityThen we’ve got the lovely word of adaptability. So that gets thrown around a huge amount of the time. So remember, the definition of adaptability is openness to change. And I’d like people who are listening now to remember that it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re gonna do the change, that you’re open to it. Okay, so agile. So there’s a difference between adaptability and agile.

Agile means you can make the change quickly. You can make the decision to make the change quickly. So when you work on your openness, curiosity, and openness to new ways of doing things, it also helps you be more agile.

5 SupportWe then have our support network, which we’ve referenced a lot. Just make sure that you’ve got all the people in your life, a good balance of people that energize you and support you and tell your own truths.

And we will have to spend time in our lives with people that we don’t enjoy spending time with. Sometimes it’s family . So it’s just about what’s your balance around that and get it into a good place.

6 MeaningThen there’s meaning, which we’ve talked an awful lot about today, about how do you answer that question about how are you, what’s your self-talk? So the stories we tell ourselves, because every time we answer the question “how are you”, we’re imprinting a muscle memory inside ourselves about if we’ve had a good experience or a bad experience, or I’m an okay person or I’m a terrible person. So the meaning that we attach to events.

7 EnergyAnd finally, energy, which is going back to playing to your strengths. When I work with leaders, that is also the space where we are also thinking about wellbeing and diet and exercise that goes into the energy space. I’m not an expert on the diet and exercise piece, you know, but energy when I work with clients is far more about their strengths profile.

And so those seven aspects, and they’re all interconnected every time you engage with one of them and make it slightly better, it has positive knock on effects on all of the others. So I support clients on their resilience wheel.”

Where to Find More From Russell HarveyBe sure to listen to the full episode to get more of Russell’s tips about how to build resilience. Jenn and Russell go on to discuss the connections between each part of the resilience, and learning to get comfortable with being uncomfortable! If you want to learn more about Russell and his work, you can connect with him at the resources below:

• theresiliencecoach.co.uk
• linkedin.com/in/russelltheresiliencecoach/
• The Leadership Habit Podcast

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Everyday Mentorship with Leadership Strategist Ted MaOn this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall welcomes Mentorship Mindset expert Ted Ma to discuss how to be an everyday mentor. Mentorship is the key to creating a better, more empowered, confident and effective workforce. Tune in to find out how to make mentorship a routine part of your work day!

Meet Ted Ma, Leadership Strategist, Author and International Keynote SpeakerTed Ma has been coaching leaders for over 20 years. In his previous career, he built and led a sales team of over 6,000 independent agents. His work has been featured in publications, including USA Today, Kiplinger, and Inc. He is also a Crestcom L.E.A.D.R. subject matter expert featured in two modules dealing with emotional intelligence, mental agility, and resilience.

What is an Everday Mentor? As the episode opens, Jenn introduces Ted and welcomes him to the podcast. Then, Jenn dives right into the topic, asking Ted to explain what an everyday mentor is.

Ted explains, “ Excellent question. What I love about everyday mentorship is that all of us, so not only the listeners here but people that you are teaching and coaching, whether they’re business owners or budding entrepreneurs or maybe even people that work within a company, is the premise is anybody can become a mentor regardless of their position.

So becoming an everyday mentor is using our daily interactions to guide and support other people. Regardless of what our title is, there are a few key actions that we see everyday mentors take. And there are some key traits that are really important because, as we all know, it’s not just what you say, it’s how you say it.

It’s not always just what you do but the way that you do it. So how you show up as a mentor, a professional, an entrepreneur, or a leader is so important that if you do the actions without embracing and embodying the characteristics of great mentors, then the actions will fall flat.”

Jenn agrees and shares that it is unfortunate that many organizations fail to organize a formal mentorship program, and asks Ted to explain why building these relationships is so important in today’s workplace.

Why is the Mentoring Experience So Important in Today’s Workplace? Ted replies, “I’m gonna give you two answers to that question. The first one is the numbers speak for themselves. And not only the numbers we’re probably familiar with about the value of mentoring in general but what I did back in 2021 is I hired a national research company, and we actually did a deep dive and surveyed over a thousand working professionals here in the US, and we asked them some very poignant questions about the impact of mentorship in their careers.

Here are some high-level findings that we found:

Number one, 71% of people said that their performance improved as a result of a mentoring relationship at work. So seven out of 10, over two-thirds of people said they were more engaged at work as a result of a mentoring relationship.

For all the organizations that are really struggling with retention in today’s world and are looking to develop this devoted, talented workforce, the number one outcome of a mentoring relationship, according to employees, was an increase in loyalty to their company. So it’s a huge business case in terms of the metrics there.

But the other piece that’s important for all of us to understand is that mentoring isn’t always this traditional relationship where you have to be in a formal structured program where the person has to be a senior to a junior person. That’s the traditional arrangement we think of. But we found through our research that informal mentoring is just as powerful or, in some cases, even more powerful than a formal structured mentoring program.”

The Mentor-Mentee Relationship Vs. Manager-Employee RelationshipLater, Jenn asks Ted about the difference between a mentoring relationship and having a coach or just a normal manager-to-employee relationship.

Ted shares his view, saying, “Coaching is a great tool in the tool belt that mentors and managers can use because coaching helps people learn a specific skill or practice. Mentorship differentiates from coaching or even from management in that it’s more holistic.

So a manager may focus on tasks that need to be achieved or objectives that have to be accomplished, whereas a mentor focuses on the overall development of the person. A manager is typically going to provide answers to questions that come up, but a mentor will ask questions of the mentee that help to inspire self-reflection.

So are we just providing solutions, or are we challenging people to get better? And there’s nothing wrong with management. Sometimes management gets a bad rap, but managers and leaders have very distinct characteristics that differentiate them from mentors because of their focus. Mentors, when they focus on deepening the relationship with the individual and the growth and development of the whole person, provide a different lens that lends itself to different behaviors.”

Learning from the Anti-MentorAs Jenn and Ted begin to discuss the traits of a successful mentor, Ted explains that even if you never had your own mentor, you probably have had an anti-mentor who taught you what not to do.

“Some of our listeners are thinking to themselves, well, this all sounds great, Ted and Jenn, I love what you all are talking about, but I’ve never had a great mentor in my life. So how can I step into that role? I wanna talk to that person for a minute because one of the types of mentorship that I didn’t mention earlier is the anti-mentor.

So if you’ve ever worked for somebody that’s the opposite of what you envision a mentor being, we would classify that person as an anti-mentor. There are key lessons that you can learn from that individual because I work for managers and leaders, as many of us have, where I said, I will never do what this person is doing to me right now to someone on my team, or I will never make the people that I lead feel the way that this individual is making me feel right now.”

6 Traits of an Everyday MentorThen, Ted Ma shares explains that an everyday mentor is:

1. A Role Model
2. Trustworthy
3. Lifelong Learner
4. Active Listener
5. Empathetic
6. Patient

For anyone wanting to improve their mentorship skills, he suggests rating yourself on those six characteristics to discover which traits you need to work more on.

Where to Find More from Ted MaTo learn why these six traits are so important and how you can strengthen them in yourself and your team, be sure to listen to the full episode! Meanwhile, if you want to learn more about Ted Ma, you can connect with him here:

• Follow Ted Ma on LinkedIn
• Visit his Website: realtedma.com

Check out his latest research, speaking programs, books and more! And if you want to learn more about Crestcom L.E.A.D.R., our comprehensive 24-module leadership development program, you can find a trainer in your area here: Get Started

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to DEI executive and coach Kelli Kombat about creating inclusion and belonging in the workplace. In today’s diverse workplace, everyone wants to feel seen and heard, yet sometimes, as leaders, we don’t know how to create a culture of inclusion and belonging.

Meet Kelli Kombat, DEI Executive & CoachKelli Kombat is a passionate DEI executive and coach. Her previous experience includes working in human resources at Ford Motor Company, L’Oreal and Volvo Car USA. Before her career in human resources, she was an on-air broadcasting personality in Virginia.

Kelli was certified in leadership coaching for organizational performance at Rutgers University through ICF and holds a professional certified coach credential. She is also a certified DEI coach and serves as director, DEI on the board for the International Coaching Federation, New Jersey Charter chapter.

As the episode opens, Kelli introduces herself, saying, “Hello, everyone. My name is Kelli Kombat, and I am curious and kind as a coach. Uh, I started a long time ago in human resources. I’m also a DEI executive. I got into all this work as a professional coach and podcaster because I was othered.

And what does that mean? So being othered means, and I’m sure a lot of you have gone through it, whether it’s because you wear glasses or because you’re a nerd or because you’re black or because you identify as gay, whatever the case may be. I think many of us have been othered.

And so that’s why it matters to me that I am curious. I try to find out more about people. I try to be more inclusive every single day. Do I get it wrong sometimes? Sure. But that’s just who I am. I’m all about equity and fairness and just making sure that I can help transform people’s lives.”

The Big Question in DEI: What if We Get It Wrong? Jenn starts their conversation by addressing the elephant in the room when discussing inclusion and belonging in the workplace: fear.

Jenn asks, “ One important thing that I want to highlight, and I’m sure you were going to bring it up, is what do you mean by getting it wrong? Because I think there’s a lot of fear around this topic, and we’re working to make it happen. I understand the importance of the work; if you get it wrong, know that you can recover. There’s not necessarily a wrong when you’re trying, but what do you mean by getting it wrong, Kelli?”

Kelli explains, “ When people get it wrong, it’s when they think that they have to be perfect in this space of being diverse and inclusive. That, oh, I have to be perfect. I have, there’s this perfectionism that happens, and I always get really excited when I’m coaching someone or I’m working with leaders or whatever I’m doing in this space. And I admit right from the start. I get it wrong all the time.

And when I say get it wrong, meaning I have to say all the right things and do all the right things. In this space, we talk about being woke; we talk about being inclusive. And what ends up happening is we get it wrong by thinking, oh, we need to, you know, smack somebody over the hand for saying something the wrong way.

I recently saw online that there were people at a very large company that said, oh, we’re going to be attending an all-hands meeting. And some folks got very upset about that, saying, well, we really shouldn’t say “all hands” because that’s inferring that everybody is a certain way and that we have our limbs and what have you. And at the end of the day, we’re all going to get it wrong. I’ll say it again: we’re all going to get it wrong.

I don’t care if you have a lot of certifications in this space because I do. It doesn’t matter if you’re a certified DEI coach in this space because I get it wrong all the time. And I love that light bulb moment when I’m across the room from someone who’s an executive just trying to get it better.

It’s like the wall comes tumbling down, and they’re thinking, oh my gosh. Well, if you’re an executive in this space and you get paid very handsomely and you get it wrong, then I don’t have to worry about that. As long as I’m trying to learn, as long as I’m trying to grow. It’s all good.”

What’s So Important About Inclusion and Belonging at Work? Later in the episode, Jenn and Kelli talk about why a sense of belonging is important in the employee experience.

Kelli explains, “It matters to most folks because everybody just like, we all want love, we all want safety, we all want security. We want a sense of belonging. It’s like that hierarchy of needs, and it’s intrinsically innate. We all want that feeling that we belong. Think about dodgeball or think about anything where you felt excluded. It’s a bad feeling to feel.

If you think about it from that perspective, empathy is at the center of all this work. It’s not as if I have to know what somebody else has been through as long as I can understand, listen, and understand. That’s really at the core of all of it.

It matters so much when you think about all the different generations and what those unique needs are for each person, each group, people really want to feel as if they belong. Because if they don’t have that, they will vote with their feet. They will leave. They won’t feel as if the (organization’s) values are aligned with their own values. The operating system is what I like to call it. I think that psychological safety won’t be there, so the engagement won’t be there.”

Changing Perspective by Changing the AcronymLater in the episode, Kelli explains how she likes to change people’s perspectives on diversity and inclusion by flipping the acronym. Most people are familiar with the acronyms: D&I, DEI, DEIB, and more. Kelli prefers the acronym IDEAS:

• Inclusion
• Diversity
• Equity
• Accessibility
• Solidarity

She explains that she likes this acronym because it brings to mind creativity and innovation. She explains, “It’s I before D it’s on purpose because it’s not just about the metrics of having different kinds of people working at your organization. It’s more about creating a space where people feel included. And only they can deem that. Just like a person can only deem another person an ally, I can’t call myself an ally. Only through my actions and my intentionality can someone else deem me that.

So that’s my approach. It’s all about inclusion, diversity, equity, and accessibility with the goal of solidarity. And it’s always around that goal of innovation, that goal of creating a sense of belonging and psychological safety. And so my approach is both quantitative and qualitative. It’s about bringing everyone along. Nobody’s taking away a piece of the pie. It’s more about bringing everybody along with the sense that we all can get it, we all can have something better. And I know it sounds hokey, and it may sound a bit cheesy, but I do believe that when you bring everybody along, that’s what matters most.”

Where to Find More from Kelli KombatTo get more of Kelli’s expert advice on creating a culture of belonging, be sure to check out the full episode! To learn more about Kelli’s work, you can connect with her here:

• Visit her website: kellicoach.com
• Connect on LinkedIn
• Email her at yes@kellicoach.com

Thank you so much for listening to The Leadership Habit podcast! Check out our latest episodes on your favorite podcast streaming service!

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How to Become a More Empathic Leader with Markus van AlphenIn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to leadership psychologist Markus van Alphen about becoming a more empathic leader. Jenn and Markus dive into the importance of understanding emotions in yourself and others to be a better leader and how we can all become better at noticing emotions to improve communication, productivity and employee engagement.

Meet Markus van Alphen, Renowned Leadership Psychologist and AuthorMarkus van Alphen is a renowned leadership psychologist and author of more than 15 books in Dutch and English. He developed the Observational Listening concept in 2014. Observational Listening is actively listening to what an individual has to say, observing them, and understanding their emotional state. When leaders are attentive to the story and the underlying emotions, the employee feels heard, seen, acknowledged and psychologically safe, resulting in increased happiness, motivation, and success.

Markus helps leaders and individuals worldwide increase workplace and personal relationship effectiveness, transform their environments, and succeed. Markus is also a trainer, lecturer, and curriculum developer for undergraduate and postgraduate psychology and counseling students at colleges and universities across the Netherlands.

Interestingly, Markus began his career as an engineer for utility providers and software companies. After a decade in the field, he realized the impact our individual characteristics and interpersonal interactions have on our work and lives, which led him to pursue psychology.

He holds a master’s degree in psychology from the University of Amsterdam and a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering that he received from the University of Cape Town.

What People Get Wrong about Empathic LeadershipAs the episode opens, Jenn asks Markus to explain what empathic leadership is and dispel the myths about empathy in the workplace.

Markus explains, “Well, I think we have a lot of myths going around here as well. A lot of people have this idea if you’re an empathic leader, then it’s all huggy and cuddly, being nice to one another. Not saying nasty things, not confronting people. No, it’s not that. It’s not that.

So to me, empathic leadership is actually about really knowing who your team members are and really understanding them, understanding where they’re coming from. And, in a way, this is the simplest way to motivate people.

Well, I should correct myself straight away because I don’t believe you need to motivate people. I believe that if you’re empathic, people are motivated by themselves, they’re actually motivated already. So it’s more just a matter of aligning with what they need in such a way that they do what they want to do.”

Jenn asks why leaders have difficulty understanding the importance of leading with empathy, and Markus tells her it has a lot to do with the myths we have about leadership in general. He points out that research has shown that punishing people is the least effective way to change people’s behavior since 1820, and people have done almost nothing with that knowledge.

He says, “So, when we have a myth, and we are brought up with all of these myths, let’s be honest. And I’m not saying it’s good or bad, I’m just saying we are brought up with all these myths that certain things are the right way to do stuff. And any information we get that counts as that idea we don’t like, we find ways to sort of push it into a corner or ignore it or go on the defense of whatever.

And I think it’s the same with empathy. It’s the same. It actually begins with emotions. Emotions, for a long time in our society, have sort of been bad things, you know, and sort of a bit of a side product of the way we think. Whereas that’s not true, if you think about, and, and pushing that myth further, then we go, we go into the organization, get to the workplace. And you hear still today, a lot of people saying, we don’t have emotions in the workplace. It’s rational stuff.

And I just shake my head. I think, how do you expect people to work to be without there being emotions, without emotions? You’re simply not alive. You’re a robot. So I think that’s where this myth comes from. You know, people have these convictions about emotions being strange stuff and that in the workplace, we’re rational and stuff like that. And we don’t want to hear different.”

How Observational Listening Can Improve Your Leadership StyleLater in the episode, Jenn and Markus discuss the role of effective communication in empathic leadership. Markus shares his experience teaching therapists how to communicate with clients. He noticed some clients were able to open up freely and discuss emotions easily, while others were more guarded and uncomfortable. As a psychologist, he became interested in how to help clients feel safe and able to share more easily.

Markus explains that observational listening can greatly improve a leader’s ability to understand an employee’s emotions and point of view. His technique adds another layer to active listening, which is to intentionally notice clues about the person’s emotional state. He discusses the importance of noticing body language, facial expressions and vocal tone to create a deeper understanding of the other person.

Then, Jenn shares a time when she got another person’s body language very wrong and asks Markus how to handle that kind of mistake.

Markus explains, “Okay. But again, the question is – is it a failure? Because can you accurately name everybody’s emotions perfectly straight away? I don’t believe that’s possible. I think that’s setting yourself up for failure.

So, empathy is not about being a hundred percent accurate. What empathy is about is getting a good feel as to what that emotion is. And if you get it wrong, which can happen, and you say something that implies that you got it wrong, you are gonna notice straight away by the reaction that you got it wrong.

And is that a bad thing? No, it’s not a bad thing. You can say, I’m sorry, I got that wrong. We should be vulnerable. We should allow ourselves to be vulnerable and say, Hey, I made a mistake. I saw that incorrectly, or I got that wrong. Doesn’t matter. That gives actually the other one you’re speaking to the space or more space to feel safe. You’re saying I’m human.”

The Importance of Self-Awareness in LeadershipLater in the conversation, Jenn and Markus discuss the importance of being aware of your own emotions as leaders. In the past, leaders have been told to leave their emotions at the door, but the truth is that is not humanly possible.

Markus explains, “Well, this is a very important part also of emotional intelligence, because emotional intelligence is about your own emotions and the emotions of others. Yeah. And being able to understand them and to read them and all these kinds of things. So when it comes to your own emotions, I believe we’ve sort of, as a society, we’ve distanced ourselves from our bodies. We have this idea that we know better than what our own bodies tell us. Whereas, you know, our bodies, they, they have, that’s called it billions of years of evolution behind them, that they, they have some kind of wisdom. They often know better than we do. And this is where, as far as I’m concerned, the journey begins. Start by feeding your emotions in your body, right? By discovering, hey, uh, where do I feel things?

A lot of people, for example, when they’re feeling tension or anxiety, feel it for the first in their gut. And so being aware of your body helps you to become aware of your emotions. And, it’s not so that there’s a standard place for everything. I was discovering this by myself as well. I mean, because I’m also human, so I always get tensions and stuff like that. And I was trying to find out, okay, so find, where’s the first signal I can discover that I’m feeling tense about something, and after spending some time this, I found out it was my right hamstring.

Why? I don’t know. But when my right hamstring starts tensing up just a little bit, I know, okay, I’m feeling tension. And that gives me the space to actually accept that tension instead of fighting it. I’m giving this as a simple example. And so, so just starting with your body, being aware of what, what that emotion’s doing inside of your body often is the first step to becoming aware.”

Where to Find More from Markus van AlphenListen to the full episode to learn more about how to be a more empathetic leader. Markus van Alphen has a lot of insights to share! If you want to find out more about him, check out these links as well:

• Connect on LinkedIn
• Visit his website: marcusvanalphen.com
• Check out The Excellent Organisation

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In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Greg Martin about how to find fulfillment at work. We spend about one-third of our lives at work, so this is a topic worth exploring!

Meet Greg Martin, Investment Banker, Angel Investor and EntrepreneurGreg is an investment banker, angel investor, entrepreneur and regular host of the Lifetime at Work podcast about the world of work and business.

His day job involves advising corporate clients and business owners as they relentlessly pursue growth at all costs to earn the next million dollars. Working on Bay Street (the Wall Street of Canada), Greg is surrounded by high-achieving professionals across law, accounting, venture capital, private equity and the big banks who work 80+ hour weeks to serve their clients. But at what cost to them?

Although he started his career in investment banking, Greg also founded and operated a restaurant, catering and food e-commerce business. Unfortunately, he had to switch careers again when the pandemic hit and his business did not survive.

Greg returned to the world of investment banking, but with a fresh perspective, and a passion for seeking fulfillment from work and helping others do the same!

Why Don’t People Feel Fulfilled at Work?As the episode begins, Jenn asks Greg why people struggle to find fulfillment at work every day. Greg explains:

“So I think that’s a complicated question. , there are a lot of facets. And I think, to boil it down, I think that the fulfillment that we get, a lot of it comes from setting goals and achieving them. Just getting a little bit better at the job, right?

If you’re not good at it, if you don’t get praise, if you don’t advance, if you don’t learn in a job– you’re probably not going to like it. Or, you’re going to struggle.

But what happens with a lot of people, I think, is that you know, you started something, something new, you’re learning a lot of stuff. You’re meeting new people, you’re doing all this new stuff, but that doesn’t necessarily always last.

And sometimes that is on you, right? Sometimes it’s on you for not finding the next thing within that job or within those parameters or communicating with your boss.

And other times, it is your company. Where they just want you to do this one set thing here. You know, you’re in charge of sales, and you, you know, let’s get 10 new accounts a week, and that’s it. That’ll be a challenge because getting 10 accounts a week is tough, but you reach a certain point where you get good at it, you’ve done it, and now you’re like, well, I kind of need something else to try to achieve now.

And I think that’s an example of what happens to us in a lot of ways. We just hit a bit of a ceiling. We hit somewhere where we’re just, we’re not feeling like we can contribute, or we’re not getting enough outta the job.

And so then we kind of struggle a bit. We try to figure out, okay, well, can I do something differently? Can I go try to figure out a new way to tackle such and such? Can I go and do this other thing, meet these new people, and you actually end up doing things that aren’t necessarily right because you’re just trying to look for the next thing, the next thing to achieve.”

Quiet Quitting vs. Taking Ownership of Your HappinessLater, Jenn talks about finding the challenges of achieving fulfillment in today’s workplace. She notes that when people are not in a fulfilling job, it can lead to “quiet quitting”. However, she warns people that it is still important to take ownership of your own happiness and think about your role in your own day-to-day happiness. She asks Greg what advice he has for someone feeling stuck and unmotivated to the point of quiet quitting.

Greg agrees, saying, “Quiet quitting is interesting. It’s almost, in a way, a bit of a test, right? It’s, it’s kind of a, let me try this on. Let me try to just mail it in, to not do a whole lot of my job and we’ll see what happens. And the worst case scenario, they let me go. I wanted to go anyway.

And so what I’ve learned, or what I’ve sort of tried to really get from people in interviewing them and just, and just going through my own experience, is that a lot of it is in your head. And you need a certain amount of fulfillment from your job.

You can go a certain amount of time without it, right? You can effectively just keep dialing in those sales every week and, and not really find that next challenge. But it does weigh on you. I, I think it does impact you, your happiness, your, again, that fulfillment outta your job over time. And you do have a decision to make at a certain point, right?

Like, say you quiet quit for a month and no one notices or no one says anything, and then it turns into six months and then a year, and then two years and three years it where you’re just, you know, really doing a very, very small amount to continue earning your paycheck. But I, I would also worry that we’re not just doing our jobs to get a paycheck. I think there’s actually a lot more out of it that we can get. If we’re trying to advance as people, we can get a lot of happiness. We can learn things and move up in the world and impact the world.

And a lot of people are trying to do that. You know, educate themselves, learn, build relationships. There are so many things you can get outta work. And if you dial it back so much for so long you know, I think you’re kind of wasting your life.

You’re sort of wasting some of these precious years, some of this time that you can actually be doing something. Now, I know it’s easier said than done. Sometimes, you’re just in a bad place where you know that going and finding a new job or starting something new is gonna be a lot of work. And you might as well put it off if you can. But at a certain point, you do have to say, like, say, I just maybe need to actually quit rather than just be quiet about it.”

Listen to the Whole Episode for Greg’s Tips and AdviceBe sure to check out the entire episode to get Greg and Jenn’s insights and advice about taking ownership of your career and happiness. Even if you struggle with finding meaningful work, you can find meaning in your work! If you want to find out more about Greg Martin, check out his podcast: Lifetime at Work.

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Jesse Hernandez about building more connected teams. Jesse runs a consulting business called Depth Builder, LLC, where he builds a community of intentional leaders in the construction industry. Meet Jesse Hernandez– Author, Podcast Host and Team Builder Jesus (Jesse) Hernandez was born […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall welcomes Tiffany Houser to the show to talk about how to build your leadership presence and self-worth to find more success in 2024! Meet Tiffany Houser, Founder of EVOLVE & Creator of Self Worth Advantage® Tiffany Houser is passionate about people and transformation. […]

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How to Create a Culture of Belonging with Cordell Carter On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall welcomes Cordell Carter, II, to discuss how to create a culture of belonging and joy! As we’ve mentioned before, Gallup’s State of the Workforce 2023 report found that only 33% of employees are engaged […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, host Jenn DeWall welcomes Debra Fine back to The Leadership Habit! Debra’s first episode with us is our most listened-to episode of ALL TIME. Her tips on mastering the fine art of small talk have helped people all over the world stop being wallflowers and start building […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to customer experience expert and keynote speaker David Avrin. Together, they explore the challenges of customer service in today’s fast-paced marketplace. David shares his insights about the pain points customers are facing and how leaders can start enhancing the customer experience to win […]

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Find Confidence and Success in 2024 with Jamie McKinney On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn kicks off the new year by talking to bestselling author Jamie McKinney about how to find confidence and success in 2024. If you are setting your goals and wondering if you have what it takes to […]

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How to Create a Productive Team That Actually Gets Results On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to CEO Zach Montroy about how to create a productive team that actually gets results! If you are working on your organizational goals for 2024, you do not want to miss this episode! […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to organizational psychologist Joshua Washington about how to have mission-critical conversations. These are the key conversations we have– or don’t have– every day. What conversations should you be having on your team to keep everyone focused on the mission of your organization? Meet […]

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On this week’s episode, Jenn DeWall welcomes Nancy Lyons to The Leadership Habit podcast to talk about how to work like a boss! Meet Nancy Lyons, CEO and Co-Founder of Clockwork Nancy understands that humans are the hardest part of work. She’s been building teams and leading clients through culture change and evolution for over […]

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The 7 Keys of Engagement with Speaker, Consultant and Trainer, Paul ter Wal On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, Jenn welcomes Paul ter Wal to the podcast to discuss employee engagement. Together, they explain the importance of having an engaged workforce– from increasing employee satisfaction to increasing the bottom line. Be sure to […]

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How to Make a Resilience Plan with Dr. Marie-Helene Pelletier On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, Jenn talks to Dr. Marie-Helene (MH) Pelletier about resilience. This topic is incredibly important as people are struggling with resilience in a way that they haven’t been before. Meet Dr. MH Pelletier Throughout her career in business, […]

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How to Adapt and Lead When Times Get Tough with Resilience Expert Jason Shen On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Resilience Expert Jason Shen about how to adapt and lead when times get tough! Setbacks are a natural part of life, but they can throw us off track […]

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How to Create a Conscious Development Leadership Cultures in the Workplace with Ed Offterdinger & Catherine Allen In this week’s episode, Jenn welcomes TWO guests to The Leadership Habit podcast! Ed and Catherine are the Co-Founders of AO People Partners, a conscious leadership and people development firm specializing in creating successful, world-benefiting businesses. They also […]

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Responding to Customer Outrage with CEO David Ewing In this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to David G. Ewing about how to respond to customer outrage. In today’s challenging business environment, customers are more demanding than ever. When it comes to customer service, it can feel like it’s Us vs. […]

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How to Write Your Own Success Story with Megan Gluth-Bohan On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Megan Gluth-Bohan, CEO and Owner of TRInternational, Inc., about how anyone can write their own success story. Megan is sharing her story of overcoming hardship and challenges to eventually become the CEO […]

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How to Win the Battle Against Imposter Syndrome with Lisa Hinz In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Lisa Hinz, CEO of The Confidence Track, about how to win the battle against imposter syndrome. Lisa has 25 years of corporate leadership experience. She’s led large teams spanning across the […]

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Understanding the Subconscious Mind to Transform Your Life with Leo Howson In this week’s episode, Jenn DeWall interviews Leo Howson to learn how understanding our subconscious mind can maximize our potential and transform our lives. Leo Howson is a seasoned entrepreneur with a decade of multi-business expertise, a certified hypnotherapist and a human potential coach. […]

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The Power of Generosity at Work with Wendy H. Steele, CEO On this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Wendy’s H. Steele and Jenn DeWall talk about the power of generosity at work. Generosity benefits people in the workplace more than you might think! It can benefit our brains, improve our ability to manage […]

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The Inner Journey of Leadership with Leadership Freak, Dan Rockwell In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to the self-proclaimed “Leadership Freak,” Dan Rockwell, about the inner journey of leadership. Dan is the author of the highly acclaimed blog Leadership Freak. He is also the co-author of the recently published book […]

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Putting Emotional Intelligence Into Action with Joshua FreedmanOn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Joshua Freedman about how to put emotional intelligence into action to improve decision-making, performance and the quality of our lives.

Meet Joshua Freedman, EQ ExpertJoshua is one of the world’s leading emotional intelligence researchers. He is the co-founder and CEO of the global non-profit Six Seconds. He also owns the EQ Network group on LinkedIn with over 135k active members.

Joshua leads the world’s largest study of emotional intelligence, with breaking research coming out later this year. He is also the author of several books, including the best-selling At the Heart of Leadership: How to Get Results with Emotional Intelligence.
Joshua has helped hundreds of organizations, including FedEx, Qatar Airways, the US Navy, P&G, Microsoft, Intel, Amazon, HSBC, and the United Nations, use emotional intelligence to get better results. His work leads to a people-centered culture that strengthens leadership, sales, employee well-being, retention and innovation.

Episode SummaryAs the episode opens, Jenn welcomes Joshua to the podcast, and they discuss his background as an EQ expert, author and CEO. Joshua is leading the world’s largest study of emotional intelligence and will release the 2023 State of the Heart report later this year.

A Global Human Energy CrisisJenn asks Joshua about his latest findings regarding emotional intelligence. Josh shares that his research finds that the complexity of the last several years has caused disconnection, isolation and burnout all around us. The emotional weight of living in “unprecedented times” is starting to wear on people.

He recalls the term coined by Kathleen Hogan, Chief People Officer at Microsoft, that we are in a “Global Human Energy Crisis.” During the height of the COVID pandemic, many work teams became more vital and agile than ever before. However, now he is seeing a decline in drive, energy and well-being. He notes that there was a similar finding after Hurricane Katrina, where people experienced a surge of resilience and energy during the height of the crisis. Still, as the recovery went on year after year, that resilience was depleted.

He explains that when people are depleted or burned out, it is more difficult to manage your emotions. People become more reactive and less understanding of others, causing more conflict in the world.

Jenn then brings up that this human energy crisis is affecting Gen Z in a massive way. Joshua agrees, saying that the data shows that Gen Z is less optimistic than previous generations, and mental health crisis-related visits to emergency rooms have also increased dramatically for them.

Resilience and DehumanizationOne common mistake leaders make is to address this human energy crisis by telling employees to practice more self-care. However, Josh reminds the audience that bubble baths cannot fix the systemic problems causing their burnout.

He provides an example of a recent meeting he had with organization leaders on a transformational project. At the same time, the company’s employees scored low on emotional resilience, emotional recovery and emotional energy. He said asking them to push this project forward was similar to asking an exhausted pilot to not only keep the plane flying but also climb outside it and fix it while it is still in the air.

Joshua points out that the US Surgeon General has recently released a framework for mental health and well-being for the first time. It includes a business case for well-being in the workplace, with citations and research showing that when people have energy, they can do more work and be more effective.

However, many leaders are making headlines by insisting that it is time to get tough, work 10-12 hour days, and sleep in the office, which is a terrible strategy. It is this attitude that is dehumanizing to workers. Leaders worth following will build an organization where people can thrive and not just survive.

How to Put Emotional Intelligence Into ActionThen, Josh explains, “The first step is to say, yeah, the emotional context of our work is central to value creation. And different organizations create value in different ways. You have a goal of how you’re going to create value, and you have a strategy for how you’re going to get there. Now, add in the culture that’s going to support that strategy, and add in the emotional conditions. What’s it like inside your organization that’s going to support that strategy. So if your strategy’s all about innovation and risk taking, you need a culture that supports innovation and risk taking. If your value creation strategy is about things being perfect, then you don’t want a culture of risk taking, right? . But you need that culture to align to your strategy. And this is the strategic use of emotions to say we can design and build a culture.”

Emotional Intelligence is a Learnable SkillJoshua goes on to explain how to build capacity within organizational systems to grow emotional intelligence. He points that improving your emotional intelligence is possible for anyone. To facilitate that requires determining if you have people that know how to measure and grow trust. Do you have people on your team who have strong social and emotional skills? If not, it is time to focus on developing skills in the people you have or attracting the right new talent that can create a culture that builds emotional intelligence into the larger systems of the company.

He shares that he once surveyed managers, asking if they felt they had the skills they needed to support the well-being challenges of their direct reports. Only about 6% of the managers felt they had the right skills for that. He points out that management training and leadership development are crucial to addressing the problems of today.

Emotional Intelligence CompetenciesLater, Jenn and Josh talk about the components of emotional intelligence that make up a vital organization. He recommends assessing the measurable learnable emotional intelligence competencies within an organization to see which skills need to be developed on your team.

As the episode concludes, Jenn asks Josh if he has any final thoughts for the audience. He shares that leaders can make a tremendous impact on the human energy crisis. He explains, “The good news is these are measurable learnable skills. And we’ve seen in so many sectors and places we’ve seen it with football players, we’ve seen it with it professionals, we’ve seen it with teachers, we’ve seen it with managers, we’ve seen it over and over and over again, that a little bit of emotional intelligence makes a tremendous difference in your effectiveness, in your relationships, and in your wellbeing and quality of life. So you can do it, and you can grow in these areas and, and it will make a difference.”

Where to Find More from Joshua Freedman* At his nonprofit organization’s website: 6seconds.org * On LinkedIn * Read his books available on Amazon

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Maximize Your Potential by Crossing Your Deathline On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast Jenn DeWall talks to Dr. Karen Tilstra about her book, The Deathline: Stopping the #1 All-Time Killer of Human Potential.  Meet Karen Tilstra, PhD Dr. Karen Tilstra is the founder and president of Creativity Effect. For over a decade, […]

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The Two Rules Every Leader Needs to Know with Peter Anderton, Founder of Internal Alignment On this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall and Peter Anderton discuss the two rules every leader needs to know.  As the Director and Founder of Internal Alignment, Peter boosts senior leaders who need their teams to […]

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The 5 Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace with Dr. Paul White Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast by Crestcom, I sat down with Dr. Paul White to talk about how you can show more meaningful appreciation at work.  Dr. Paul White is a psychologist who […]

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How to Live Your Best Life with Andy Fell, Author of The Rocking Chair Test Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and in this episode, we welcome Andy Fell back to The Leadership Habit! After almost 20 years of senior leadership roles and financial services in the UK and Australia, Andy left a highly successful career […]

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How to Harness the Power of Your Team with Harmony Coach, Jeff Eschliman In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn sits down with Jeff Eschliman to discuss how to harness the power of your team! Jeff is an executive coach with thirty years of experience— from combat in Iraq to leading in […]

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How to Run More Effective Meetings with Communications Expert, Andy Bounds How much time did you spend in meetings last week? How many more will you spend this week? Do you leave those meetings feeling good about what was accomplished, or do you wish you had your time back? In this week’s episode of The […]

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In a thought-provoking episode, Jenn DeWall has a candid and vulnerable conversation with Chris Meroff about the quest for fulfillment at work and at home. As CEO and founder of DCX Community, author, Chris Meroff has dedicated his career to helping professionals find sustainable success and fulfillment in their work.  With a diverse background spanning […]

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How to Use Storytelling to Improve Networking with Chief Story Enabler, Keith Bailey In this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, we welcome back returning guest Keith Bailey. Keith joins host Jenn DeWall to explain how being a great storyteller can improve networking! If you dread attending networking events or find making small talk […]

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The Power of Mentorship with Gerald J. Leonard, Musician, Author and CEO Mentorship is crucial in personal and professional growth, providing valuable guidance and insights from experienced individuals. In this episode, host Jenn DeWall welcomes back author, CEO and musician Gerald J. Leonard to The Leadership Habit. Gerald is a PMP, PFMP, and CIQ Coach, […]

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How to Cope with a Layoff and Move Forward with Jenn DeWall In this week’s Mini-sode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, host Jenn DeWall talks about how to cope with a layoff. Many people are dealing with job loss or the fear of losing their job right now. If you or someone you know is […]

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The Art of Listening with author, speaker and CEO, Heather R. Younger On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall welcomes Heather R. Younger back to the podcast to discuss her newest book, The Art of Active Listening. This is Heather’s third time as a guest on the show! Heather R Younger […]

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Cultivating Infectious Energy: The Key to Personal and Professional SuccessIn this episode of the Leadership Habit podcast, host Jenn DeWall invites guest Keith Smith, President and CEO of Vonco Products, to delve into cultivating infectious energy. They share their enthusiasm for the concept and explore its profound impact on relationships, leadership, and personal development.

Meet Keith Smith, CEO of Vonco ProductsKeith Smith is on a mission to help leaders, entrepreneurs, and investors live more empowered lives, cultivate innovation, overcome fear, and become more effective leaders. Keith strives to make a difference by sharing his energy, experience, and passion, imparting wisdom and thought leadership, and being in the present during times of need. Keith has over 25 years of experience as an executive leader, mentor, and motivator.

The Power of CaringKeith Smith explains the core value of caring more at his company. He emphasizes the importance of caring for oneself first. By taking care of ourselves, we can better care for others.

Defining EnergyRecognizing that some may find the idea of energy abstract, Jenn DeWall asks Keith to define energy and explain why it matters. Keith explains that managing energy is crucial because time is a fixed resource. We control how we manage our energy within that time frame.

He highlights different dimensions of energy, including physical, emotional, and spiritual energy. Keith emphasizes the importance of gratitude and maintaining positive energy to avoid being dragged into low-energy emotions. By improving all dimensions of energy, one can cultivate infectious energy that positively impacts others.

The Pyramid Approach to Cultivating EnergyKeith introduces the pyramid approach to cultivating infectious energy, starting with self-care as the foundation. He also shares his personal experience of prioritizing business over other aspects of life and its negative consequences on his relationships and overall energy.

Level 1: SELF – Prioritizing Self-CareFirst, Keith stresses the importance of self-care as the foundation for cultivating infectious energy. By caring for oneself first, individuals can effectively care for others. Keith introduces the concept of a Dream Manager, inspired by the book “Dream Manager” by Matthew Kelly. This approach allows individuals to find fulfillment and achieve their personal aspirations while contributing to the company’s success.

Level 2: HEALTH – Maintaining Physical Well-beingThen, Keith emphasizes the importance of prioritizing physical health to sustain infectious energy. He follows a creed of “always be training for something” and sets goals to maintain fitness levels. Keith advocates for the keto diet and emphasizes the significance of rest, recovery, and quality sleep. Creating structure in uncertain times can help manage anxiety and protect one’s health.

Level 3: RELATIONSHIPS – Nurturing Meaningful ConnectionsNext, Keith acknowledges the value of relationships and the need to prioritize them. He shares about putting work ahead of relationships in the past and how shifting that mindset positively impacted his life. Keith encourages planning and emphasizes the role of relationships as mirrors of our energy and attitudes. Cultivating genuine care for others in business fosters meaningful connections and enhances overall success.

Level 4: WEALTH – Giving Back to the CommunityKeith believes in sharing wealth and abundance by giving back to the community and aligning his actions with his values and passions. He actively engages with various organizations and causes that are important to him. By prioritizing community involvement, Keith finds fulfillment and contributes to the attractiveness of his organization.

Level 5: BUSINESS – Intentionality and FocusKeith stresses the importance of intentionality and focus in business. He advises entrepreneurs to identify their strengths, differentiate themselves, and create a five-year plan to guide their purpose and success. Entrepreneurs can leverage their strengths and increase productivity by focusing on high-impact activities and delegating tasks outside their expertise.

Infectious Energy is a Powerful ToolCultivating infectious energy is a powerful tool for personal and professional success. By prioritizing the five levels of the pyramid, you can create an environment that attracts positive energy and inspires others. Infectious energy enhances personal fulfillment and contributes to the success of organizations and the well-being of employees.

Where to Find More From Keith SmithThank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of a Leadership Habit podcast. If you want to know more or connect with Keith, visit his website, KeithSmith.io.

Or, if you are embarking on a personal journey for higher achievement or fulfillment, please reach out to Keith. You can reach him via phone at 262-298-7220. Or you can email him at KeithSmithCEO@gmail.com.

And, of course, if you enjoyed today’s conversation or know someone that could benefit from it, please share it with them. Help others cultivate that infectious energy!

Finally, if you need help developing your leaders, Crestcom can help! We offer a 12-month-long comprehensive, interactive leadership development experience.

We also have monthly complimentary webinars, blogs and e-books available to help you find solutions to your leadership challenges. Until next time…

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How to Build Your Legacy with Rani Puranik, EVP and Global CFO for Worldwide Oilfield MachineOn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with Rani Puranik to talk about how to build your legacy.

Rani Puranik was born in Houston, Texas to Indian parents. She is the Executive Vice President and Global Chief Financial Officer of Houston-based Worldwide Oilfield Machine (WOM). In addition to being a visionary in business, she is also the chair of the Houston-based non-profit Puranik Foundation. The foundation was founded in 2000 to create educational opportunities for underserved children.

Rani has more than 4,000 employees across 13 global locations. With more than 4,000 employees across 13 global locations, Rani implemented a successful operational framework that grew the company’s annual revenue to more than $350 million.

In fact, Rani was named one of the Top 25 Most Influential Women in Energy in 2022 by Oil and Gas Investor and Hart Energy. I hope you enjoy our conversation as we talk about how to build your legacy.

Episode Summary Jenn DeWall welcomes Rani Puranik, author and co-owner of an engineering and manufacturing company for the oil and gas industry. Rani talks about her life as a second-generation immigrant to the United States.

She also shared that she moved from Houston to India for an arranged marriage at the age of 19. She has raised her two daughters in both India and the United States.

Throughout her life she has worn three hats. She is the co-owner of a worldwide manufacturing company, the chairperson of the Puranik Foundation, and most recently, an author.

She also announces her upcoming book, Seven Letters to My Daughters, which was inspired by her daughters, to share her experiences and advice with them and others.

What Does Building a Legacy Mean?

Then, Jenn DeWall and Rani Puranik discussed the meaning of legacy and how to build it. Legacy goes beyond who we are as individuals. Building a legacy is about understanding what we have today, and what we have been given from the past. Gifts like culture, upbringing, values, principles, and life experiences that can be passed on to future generations.

Every decision and choice should serve and positively impact something or someone to build our legacy. According to Rani, a legacy is about positively impacting someone or something other than yourself. It can be established by even small actions such as smiling at someone in a grocery store.

Why is it Important to Build a Legacy?Rani also explained the importance of legacy and why it brings more meaning to life. She believes that as human beings, we all search for happiness and freedom. To be happy, we need to be satisfied. To be satisfied, we need to be aware of who we are and how we show up to connect with other people.

Our legacy is our purpose, and it is how we make an impact and make others’ lives a little better. It is about being authentically ourselves and showing up in our authentic selves. By doing so, we can find satisfaction, meaning, worthiness, and ultimately happiness and freedom.

What Climbing Mount Everest Taught Rani About PowerThen, Rani shared her experience climbing Mount Everest for her 50th birthday. At the time she was reflecting on the meaning of power, and how to leave a powerful legacy. During the climb, she asked her fellow climbers on Mount Everest to define the meaning of power.

Their answers varied, but some answers stuck with her. One person said power was the ability to positively impact someone or something. Another climber thought it was knowing one’s potential and knowing you have not reached it yet.

Eventually, she boiled down power to one word, authenticity, because the mountains and water didn’t know they were powerful. They just showed up in their purest element without fear, comparison, guilt, shame, or wanting to prove anything. Each of us has unique elements and the potential to be powerful by showing up in our authentic selves.

Show NotesThank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of a Leadership Habit podcast. If you want to learn more about Rani, you can head on over to her website, RaniPuranik.com. You can take her Life Chapter Quiz to discover words of wisdom for your current chapter in life.

You can purchase her book, Seven Letters to My Daughters: Light Lessons of Love, Leadership, and Legacy on Amazon or your favorite book retailers.

Thank You for Listening to The Leadership HabitIf you know someone that is interested or would like to think about how they can intentionally build a legacy, share this podcast! Or please leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service.

And of course, if you’re looking to develop yourself or your team as leaders, head on over to Crestcom.com. We would love to come into your organization and help you be your best team and be your best leader. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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The Art of Networking, with Alyce Blum, CPC, ICF, iPECIn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, Jenn DeWall sits down with Alyce Blum, Co-founder of Articulated Intelligence, to talk about the art of networking! After attending numerous networking events as she was advancing her career, Alyce pondered, if networking is so important, how come no one ever taught me how to do it? It’s not taught in school, at home, or at work.

That question led her to start a business where she has been teaching people how to make networking less icky! If you are going to invest time in networking, you owe it to yourself to get a good R.O.N. (Return on Networking). Learn how to move beyond exchanging business cards to make real connections.

Episode Summary BelowAlyce’s company, Articulated Intelligence, helps people learn the language of storytelling to build relationships when networking, pitching, influencing, selling, or communicating with others. They the importance of storytelling in creating deeper, more meaningful relationships. Whether you are job searching, selling, or just want to expand your professional network, learning to make authentic connections is important.

They believe that networking and storytelling are languages that can be learned through practice and feedback and that there is no need for hope in networking when certain techniques and tools are applied. In this episode, Alyce Blum and Jenn DeWall discuss the challenges of networking and the value of meaningful connections beyond job titles and elevator pitches.

Better Networking Starts with Giving More in Value Than You Take in PaymentIn a conversation about networking, Alyce Blum shares personal stories about how she has always enjoyed talking and engaging with people. She emphasizes the importance of having a mindset that values giving more in value than what you take in payment and how this can lead to more enjoyable and effective networking.

Alyce also suggests that reframing our mindset and understanding that networking is a reciprocal process can help us approach it in a more positive way. She believes that networking doesn’t have to be solely focused on monetary or tangible benefits but rather on bringing value to other people’s lives.

Successful Virtual Connection Starts with Setting Quantitative GoalsAlyce Blum suggests that it is possible to connect with others successfully in a virtual space. To do so, one needs to set clear goals, which can be qualitative or quantitative, and be more intentional and creative. For qualitative goals, one could set a confidence level scale to monitor how they feel during and after a virtual networking engagement.

For quantitative goals, one could aim to meet a certain number of people or share their contact information with a specific number of individuals. It takes more effort to connect with people virtually, and one needs to be intentional in doing so.

Better Connections Start with Better QuestionsAlyce Blum suggests that before attending a networking event, one should set a goal, prepare questions, and research the attendees or the host of the event. She recommends using the first, best, last, or worst prompts to help think of big questions.

For example, one can ask, “What’s been the best part of 2023?” to start a conversation which blocks out all the negative aspects of the year and takes the conversation in a positive direction. She also suggests that these prompts can be useful in internal networking within a company or team. Lastly, she advises that one should take the opportunity to relate to the person they are talking to and create a deeper connection.

Avoid “Pitch-Slapping“Alyce Blum and Jenn DeWall discuss the changing landscape of making professional connections and how to make it more effective and less daunting. They suggest reading the room and acknowledging people’s needs, and using big questions to direct conversations.

They also suggest being intentional and showing up with a positive attitude and energy. They mention the benefits of the virtual world and how it can be less overwhelming than in-person networking events. They also discuss how to avoid “pitch slapping” and “networking on” people and how to make networking more human and less robotic.

The 75% Reconnection Rule for NetworkingAlyce Blum suggests the “75% reconnection rule” for networking, which means that 75% of the networking goal should be spent reconnecting with people you already know and trust or with events and associations where you already have established connections. The remaining 25% can be spent on meeting new people, like attending a different type of event or volunteering. This rule makes networking more enjoyable and easier and also helps to build trust faster when asking for help or advice.

Where to Find More from Alyce BlumAlyce Blum, from Articulated Intelligence, suggests that people can follow her company on LinkedIn or visit their website to access content that provides tips and tools on mastering the art of networking and storytelling.

Articulated Intelligence offers services on networking, storytelling, and more, and they are always ready to help anyone who wants to improve their networking skills. Jenn DeWall encourages listeners to share the podcast with anyone who could benefit from it and to visit Crestcom.com to access complimentary resources on leadership development.

Show NotesAlyce Blum is a Certified Professional Coach and Co-Founder of Articulated Intelligence. If you enjoyed this episode, you may also enjoy the episode featuring her co-founder, Keith Bailey all about storytelling. You can get more information about Alyce, Keith and Articulated Intelligence on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/articulated-intelligence/, or their website: www.articulated-intelligence.com

A Message from CrestcomCrestcom is a global organization dedicated to developing effective leaders. Companies all over the world have seen their managers transformed into leaders through our award-winning and accredited leadership development programs. Our signature BPM program provides interactive management training with a results-oriented curriculum and prime networking opportunities. If you’re interested in learning more about our flagship program and developing your managers into leaders, please visit our website to find a leadership trainer near you.

Or maybe you yourself have always wanted to train and develop others. Crestcom is a global franchise with ownership opportunities available throughout the world. If you have ever thought about being your own boss, owning your own business and leveraging your leadership experience to impact businesses and leaders in your community, Crestcom may be the right fit for you.

We’re looking for professional executives who are looking for a change and want to make a difference in people’s lives. Learn more about our franchise opportunity on the Own A Franchise page of our website at Crestcom.com.

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How to Build Deep Listening Skills in the Workplace with Oscar TrimboliHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Oscar Trimboli to talk about how to listen in the workplace. Now Oscar is on a quest to create 100 million deep listeners. He is an author, he’s the host of the Apple Award-winning podcast, Deep Listening, and is a sought after keynote speaker. He is passionate about using the gift of listening to bring positive change in homes, workplaces, and cultures worldwide. And I hope you enjoy our conversation and I hope you are also inspired to connect on a deeper level by using listening. So here is Oscar’s and my conversation on how to listen in the workplace.

Meet Oscar Trimboli, Deep Listening ExpertJenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall and I’m so excited to have Oscar Trimboli. You heard about him on our opening bumper. This is the man behind– and I’m holding this up for those that can see our video recording of the podcast– he is the author of How to Listen: Discover the Hidden Key to Better Communication. And I am so excited to be having a conversation on how we can listen in the workplace because I feel like listening and communication is stuff that everyone thinks we should have solved by now. And yet these are the things that we still all have probably a big opportunity to improve upon. But Oscar, welcome to the show. We are so happy to have you.

Oscar Trimboli: G’day, Jenn. Really looking forward to listening to your questions today.

Jenn DeWall: Great. Well I just love to get started. I do this at the ever, I guess at the top of almost every show, which is what made you become interested in listening, how did you come to be where you are today? If you could just go ahead and give us an introduction from your words to our audience.

What Started Your Deep Listening Journey?Oscar Trimboli: I think you need to zoom into a boardroom that I was in in April, 2008. We recently had bush fires in Sydney at the time and the, the smoke was still in the air conditioning system in the office and I can still feel that feeling. I don’t know if you’ve ever smelt smoke Jenn, but just will stay with you for a very, very long time. And I was on a video conference between Sydney, Seattle and Singapore and in that meeting there were, it was the budget setting meeting for the fiscal year, 18 people all around the world. The meeting is scheduled for 90 minutes, but these meetings are renowned to go for 3, 4, 5 hours because they are the budget setting meeting. You can’t leave till the budget set. Now, something really interesting happened at the 20 minute marker. I’m sitting there in the meeting and my vice president in the room, Tracy looks me straight in the eye and says, I need to see you immediately after this meeting.

Now Jenn, for the rest of the meeting, I did not listen to a single word that was being said in that budget setting meeting because all I thought was I’m gonna get fired and how many weeks of salary have I got left and what are my job prospects. As marketing director at Microsoft at the time. I was completely freaked out at the 70 minute mark, 20 minutes earlier than anticipated. The meeting finished early and as everybody left, I got up and Tracy said, make sure you close the door. And I thought, wow, okay. So I went and closed the door and as I walked back to my chair, she said, you have no idea what you did at the 20 minute mark, do you? And I thought, great, I’m getting fired and I don’t even know what I did. And as I sat down, she said, the most profound thing I’ve ever heard somebody say to me, she said, Oscar, if you could code how you’d listen, you could change the world.

The Quest to Improve Listening Skills in the WorkplaceOscar Trimboli: And Jenn, as insightful, a moment of listening as that was on Tracy’s part, the only thing going through my head was, Woohoo, I hadn’t been fired. I can put all that money back in my bank account and the only thing I could blurt out in that moment was simply this. Tracy, do you mean code or code-code? Because we’re working on Microsoft. I thought maybe she’s asking me to make it into a methodology or or did you really mean software? And she said, code, Oscar code. And since then I’ve been on a quest to code listening and we’ve got a listening quiz. We’ve got three books, we’ve got podcasts, we’ve got jigsaw puzzle games, we have a range of resources to help people understand how to listen in the workplace. Because I don’t know about you Jenn. I didn’t go to a class at school. I didn’t have a subject on listening. Maybe it’s different in Colorado. Maybe it’s different where you went to school. Did you have a listening class?

Jenn DeWall: I don’t think I ever had a specific listening class outside of a communications course in college. Yeah, I think that was probably the only like exposure that I had ever had to that.

Oscar Trimboli: In our workplaces by the second decade of most people’s career, they’ve had at least one training in how to speak effectively, how to speak with influence or impact. By the third decade of their career. They’ve had two training courses on that. And for the same statistics, the answer is zero and zero for workplace employees who’ve got any training on how to listen. And it’s no different based on seniority. It’s no different based on industry. And it’s no different based on gender. We struggle with how to listen because we’ve never had any structured training.

We have been taught how to listen. We’ve been taught by the role modeling of our managers, our executive, our parents, our auntie, our uncle, our teachers, our sports coaches, our music teachers, all of them role models, how to listen. And we picked up tips along the way. But most of us can say when it comes to math, there’s add, divide, subtract, multiply. When it comes to language. There’s verbs and nouns and pronouns and adjectives. When it comes to chemistry, there’s a periodic table of elements that’s identical no matter what language you speak around the world. But we don’t have anything like that about listening. In fact, most people can talk with more nuance about cheese or wine than they can talk about their listening.

Jenn DeWall: . I like that. It’s interesting to think about that given that presumably people are listening more than they are eating cheese or drinking wine, you know

Oscar Trimboli: Or speaking for that matter. You know, the more senior you are in an organization, the more leadership roles you take, the more of your day you are spending listening. So it’s a superpower you should be building more muscle on. You should know how to do it impactfully. And if you’re in customer facing roles or you are taking a brief, you know, medical situation or a legal situation you are spending more of your day listening, than you are actually talking. So if you want to increase profitability, if you want clients to become your best sales weapons, then if you listen to them, you’ll be very different from anybody else who engages with them.

Who Needs to Improve Listening Skills in the Workplace?Jenn DeWall: So, getting into your newest book, How to Listen, Discover the Hidden Key for Better Communication, who is this book for? When you were writing it, who was that person that you had in mind or your inspiration that you really wanted to pick this book up?

Oscar Trimboli: Rita is the inspiration. We, we actually talk about Rita in the book. And Rita is an energizer bunny. She’s a chief operating officer of a listed publicly traded company. And she’s got so many awards for her leadership. But what she did was bump into a leadership ceiling as Chief Operating Officer. She thought that by speaking faster, louder, and more energetically for her team, she would have a bigger impact. And what got her there wouldn’t get her to the next level of executive. And she had a moment when her chief executive officer had her annual performance review, and like every other performance review that Rita had, she was expecting a stellar performance review. And her CEO simply said to her, Rita, you’re too far ahead of your team. They feel like they’re chasing you, and they don’t know where they fit in.

You are way ahead of the team. Every time they bring you an issue, you are trying to fix it instead of listen to them. And when you are not present as a leader, the results don’t sustain themselves. The difference between a manager and a leader, a manager gets things done when they’re there. A leader gets things done when they’re not there. And Rita had become this really good manager who got things done. She was epic cheerleader. She was the leader who was always there early and left late and she was completely drained and she was struggling to understand, hey, this is how I’ve been leading before. Why am I struggling now? Why am I getting all this poor feedback? And the CEO said something to her that kind of changed the way she thought about it. And this is when she started to explore different leadership approaches that her, her CEO simply said, you’ve got 90 days to fix it, or I will .

The Importance of Listening to What People Don’t SayOscar Trimboli: So I don’t, I dunno if that was a veil threat at her role, I don’t suspect it was, but it was very clear to Rita something needed to change in the way she led. And yeah, from that point on, Rita started to explore what’s the other half of communication. And she had to pause and slow down and ask more questions than solve problems. As an example. Now I can tell you today, Rita’s a very successful CEO. Not in that organization, but in another one that’s publicly traded. And she only adjusted her leadership by 5%. And the 5% was exploring not just what people say, but what people don’t say.

When you understand the neuroscience of listening, that is the speaker can speak at between 125 words to 150 words per minute, yet they can think at 900. So if you just listen to what they say, you’re missing out on about 86% of what they think and what they mean. And when you understand that listening is to help the speaker express what they think and what they mean not to help your understanding, all of a sudden employee engagement changes. They’ll give more effort when you’re not there. And customers will refer you because they sense you care not only about the transaction, but also about the relationship. Suppliers will give you e extra effort because you understand their constraints. So when we wrote the book, it was for a Rita.

Jenn DeWall: I love it. No, thank you so much for sharing that. And I know we’re gonna dive into the barriers cause my head is already going into thinking of some of the challenges that I’ve experienced with listening, right? Such as missing maybe not what’s brought up, but also sometimes not listening at all to what’s brought up is what comes around. But before we dive into that and you know, talk a little bit more about bias or just different challenges within listening, let’s start with that basic definition. I know you differentiate active versus deep listening. What is the difference between the two?

What is the Difference Between Active Listening and Deep Listening?Oscar Trimboli: Active listening is really important. Active listening is about hearing what is being said. And typically, you’ve been trained in active listening training if you’ve had any training at all, to nod, to paraphrase, to use nonverbal affirmation to the speaker, to keep eye contact, to not be distracted. And so active listening is about paying attention to what’s being said. Deeper listening is about giving attention and noticing what’s not being said. So you’ll need to progress from active listening into deep listening. And the important part of that is most people focus on the speaker as their first act of listening. And that’s the wrong place to start.

And this is the bit that the active listening movement kind of jumps this step. You need to listen to yourself. Step one in listening is not focusing on the speaker. Because so many of us turn up to conversations, Jenn, with all these browser tabs open in our mind, chewing up our memory, and we’re not available, the next conversation just becomes the overload and our browser crashes in our mind. And we can’t process what’s being said because we’re thinking about the last conversation. We’re thinking about the next conversation. We’re thinking about our next question. We’re thinking about why they’re wrong, and we’re right. All these things are probably going through your head right now, Jenn. Right.

Jenn DeWall: No, I’m also thinking of, because I, I appreciate that. Because one of the pieces that I loved, like from your book of reading was one of the pieces was talking about even starting when you’re starting with yourself, which is the first place of the diagram or the process of listening. I really appreciated I was the recommendation, the three minutes. By taking the three minutes, could you tell us a little bit more about what that is, when we can get in tune to ourselves and how we’re feeling and how we’re showing up to be more present?

Three Minutes to Better Listening (And Shorter Meetings)Oscar Trimboli: Yeah. What I’m about to say next is easy to say. It’s hard to practice, but based on our research, we know that if you apply these three tips over three minutes before you go into any conversation, either face-to-face or via video, it will make a material difference. Not just to how you listen, but also to how the speaker explains their idea. When you do this well, what you will not have is speakers rambling, repeating stories. You won’t have them jumping around. When a speaker notices that you’re present and actually listening to them. Meetings are shorter, they’re more succinct, and they get to the point. Now, I don’t know about you Jenn, but shorter meetings, I would love to have shorter meetings. I would love to have less meetings. But for many people that we’re tracking, when they practice these three things, three minutes before the meeting, they consistently report back to their meetings are shorter because the speaker or speakers in a group are getting to the point.

Tip 1: Manage Electronic NotificationsOscar Trimboli: So here are the three tips. Tip number one, manage your electronic notifications before the meeting. That’s not to say switch them off because in some situations you may not be able to. Okay? Be careful of your connected watch the new evil villain of stealing your attention.

Tip 2: Drink a Glass of WaterOscar Trimboli: A tip number two is to drink a glass of water before you go into a conversation. Now, if you love Starbucks and you love coffee, that’s okay. Please also drink a glass of water. It just sends a signal to the place around your ribcage, which is called a parasympathetic nervous system. And it just tells you to relax. In fact, if you are in a meeting that goes for more than 30 minutes, you should be drinking a glass of water every 30 minutes as well.

Tip 3: Take 3 Deep BreathsOscar Trimboli: And then finally, before you go into that conversation, whether you’re clicking into the video conference or you’re stepping into the meeting room, just pause and take three deep breaths before you get into that room or that video conference. And again, it sends a signal to the parasympathetic nervous system to say slow down. And what it does is a result starts to shut down some of those browser tabs in your mind. So there’s available memory for you to focus on the speaker.

Bonus Tip – Recharge with MusicOscar Trimboli: Now, there’s a bonus tip as well. If you want to do all of that to three minutes worth of music, pick a song that matches the energy you want to bring to the conversation. So it could be a fast tempo song, it could be a short tempo song. It could be a song that’s just instrumental, or it could be with words. That’s completely up to you, the Jenn, I don’t know about you, but music consistently rewires my mind before I go into any conversation. So if I want to recharge my listening battery, which I struggle with two, music is the fastest way for me to plug in and recharge.

Jenn DeWall: No, I, I am here for music because it just shifts so much! But I want to go back to the pause before the meeting, because I think in the same way that some people don’t want to bring in the chit chat because they’ve got things to do. I could imagine some people initially saying, pause, we’ve got things to do. But you had talked about a story in your book from Google. Tell us a little bit more because from what I am understanding in that example, it was well received. And so maybe I want to bring this up so people can trust instead of saying we’ve got things to do.

Start Meetings 5 Minutes After the Hour to Improve ListeningOscar Trimboli: Yeah. In his amazing book, James Clear, who writes about Atomic Habits, says, you don’t rise to the level of your goals— you fall to the level of your systems. And when we think about listening systems, one of the things I would encourage every one of you to do if you are the host of the meeting and you are creating the meeting do not start the meeting at the top of the hour. Start at five minutes after the hour. Here’s why.

Most people will arrive physically on time, and some don’t. They’ll arrive five minutes after the hour, but mentally they won’t arrive until five minutes after the time the meeting commences. So let’s contrast these two meetings, and I am answering your Google question in this example, so I haven’t forgotten. So imagine there’s two meetings. Number one, this meeting starts at the top of the hour. Everybody comes in at one minute, after two minutes, after three minutes after four minutes after, five minutes after. And they all say, oh yeah, I just got back from my last meeting, sorry, I’m late. I I I’ll be ready. Just, oh, the second type of meeting they arrive at five minutes after the hour, the exact same time. And they go, Jenn, I love your meetings. I’ve actually had time to go to the bathroom. I’ve actually had time to get a glass of water.

I’ve actually had time to collect my thoughts. I look forward to our meetings because when they start at five minutes after the hour, I’m ready. And even for those people who arrive late five, after the hour, they will say similar things. Now, which meeting do you want? As the host of the meeting? You can create both meetings. If you’re creating one hour meeting, stop it. Just create 50-minute meetings and give people five minutes at the end of their meeting.

Start Each Meeting with Silence to Improve Listening in the WorkplaceOscar Trimboli: As of well now, in 2015, one of the most commented things in the Google Geist, Google Geist is Google’s employee engagement reports. And, and they commented on meetings with over six people in that year. They asked everybody to commence the meeting with a pause, just with silence that was hosted by the leader of the meeting for a period of time. Depending on the size of the meeting, this could vary between a minute to three minutes. And it was the most commented thing on the Google guide where it was implemented. And what they noticed was the meetings where people paused at the beginning of the meeting and collected their thoughts and just got present to the meeting. Those meetings were more effective and shorter.

Jenn DeWall: For all of the people that might be thinking, that’s a waste of time. I mean, I, it’s just to hear that if we just slow it down, that we can actually heighten people’s ability to connect and interact. I think that’s a really powerful example. Now, okay, can I have pause and chit chat? Can I do both? Because what do we do when we’re trying to build in the water cooler talk? And of course this is a joke, but I know that’s often one of the things that people might start a meeting at. But do you start with the pause, then do a little networking, then get into the agenda? What would you recommend?

Oscar Trimboli: Well, listening, situational, relational and contextual. So the answer is, it depends If the team is in an early stage of team formation, the chit chat is gonna be more important than the pause. If that team is at the middle of a project, the pause is gonna be more important than the chit chat. But beware, beware, everybody of people creating false binaries. False binary is chit chat or silence. You can do both. Skilled leaders can invite the opportunity to do both. And here’s the thing that we know from not only the research and from the Google Geist that we we talked about earlier on, is that when meetings are rushed, people come back to the following meeting with a deliverable, for example, and say, Hey Jenn, I’ve brought this back for you. And Jenn says, oh, no, no, no, that’s not what I meant. What I meant was this.

Oscar Trimboli: And there’s a whole range of rework that has to happen. So that’s in a project context, in a, in a sales context for a customer, that might be the customer saying, no, no, no, I didn’t mean that in the brief. What I meant was this. So you’ve just wasted a whole bunch of time after the meeting where you’ve done all this work that you think is productive. Yet if you are present in the meeting to them and you moved your listening from what they said to what they think and ultimately to what they mean, then all of a sudden not only is the meeting shorter, the project’s shorter, there’s less rework there.

So when it comes to chitchat or silence, one of the things we talk about in the book is listen now for absolutes and, and people setting up binaries like that where it’s, it’s either this or it’s that, that they’re listening to what’s being said, not what’s not being said. Because there are many options. There’s option A and B, there’s option one and two. Yet if you listen deeply as a group, there may be option C, d e, F 1, 3, 5, 7. And the answer is all of those things. But rarely in a meeting does a host take the time to listen to all voices and all options. And initially it may seem the meeting is going slower, but it’ll speed up at the back end much quicker. You’ll deliver high quality output and you’ll do it quicker over the life cycle of any project.

Jenn DeWall: And people will just feel seen or at, you know, if I was in a meeting where, cause I’ve sat in multiple meetings throughout my career where either you’re, you sit behind the boardroom table and that’s your designation. They still want you to participate, but yet you’re, you’re behind them sitting at the conference table. And even just having that inclusive feel, I think changes the entire, I guess, morale that I would ever have in any of those types of meetings.

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The Four Villains of ListeningJenn DeWall: I know that at the top we had talked about Rita and going into the obstacles. One of the pieces that the book dives into is that not everyone listens the same. Tell us a little bit more about what we need to be aware of as leaders in terms of understanding how we all listen a little bit differently. You talked about listening for absolutes, but I know in the book you also explored a few other examples of what that looks like.

Oscar Trimboli: We’ve been lucky because we’ve got this wonderful evidence base when people can complete the listening quiz. They tell us what gets in their way when it comes to listening, as well as complete 20 questions that they answer as well. And what typically happens is there’s four things that get in people’s way and we labeled them, or the people who took part in the research actually labeled them the four villains of listening. Dramatic interrupting, lost and shrewd. Now, I just spent a little bit of time with each of those because I’m a shrewd listener at work and I’m a lost listener at home. My brother-in-laws every Sunday they bang on about religion over and over and over again. And I’m completely lost in the conversation. And the religious debate they have is the religion of, of canon photography versus Nikon photography. It’s just religious fervor in the way they approach it.

The Lost ListenerOscar Trimboli: And my idea of photography is my phone. It’s like, it’s, it’s not something I’m interested in. And when I’m lost in that discussion, I feel like what’s my purpose in the conversation? I feel like, gee, I must be coming across as really vague. I’m distracted really easily. And that’s what the Lost listener struggles with their position in a conversation. So imagine a group meeting where you’ve been politely invited as a participant, but given no context about your role, one thing the lost listener should ask the host is, what role do you want me to play in this meeting? If you ask that question, all of a sudden you have a focus for not only your listening but your attention during that meeting. Now, as a shrewd listening villain myself, and the reason I want to pull me apart is that everyone somehow thinks I’m a perfect listener.

The Shrewd ListenerOscar Trimboli: I’m like all of us. I’m struggling with it too. I just want to get a little bit better every day. Shrewd listeners are problem-solving machines. They have spent many, many, many, many years in deep study, shrewd listening. Villains are disproportionately represented in consulting professions, legal, accounting, human resources, it anybody who supports functions in the business. And what they’re doing is they’re jumping ahead. Whatever the person’s saying they are jumping ahead and going, yeah, yeah, I know that problem, I can fix that. And I’ve got three others that you haven’t even said, and I’m gonna help you with those too. But what the shrewd listener is not doing is they don’t notice this. And this is what the speaker says about the shrewd listening villain. They say they’re trying to fix me, they’re not paying attention and they’re trying to fix me. And they’re actually trying to fix the problem.

But it is the perception from the speakers. Because we also research the people speaking as well as the people listening. They say, the shrewd listening villain is trying to fix me. The shrewd listener should spend more time listening to how somebody’s saying it, as well as what they’re saying. So shrewd listening villain is very good at synthesizing the content and solving the current issue that they’re missing enormous nuance in what’s not being said.

The Interrupting ListenerOscar Trimboli: Now, the interrupting listening villain values time. This person you mentioned earlier on, Hey, we’ve got an agenda and there’s no chit chat. That’s likely to be the interrupting and listening villain. They’re the quiz show contestant on jeopardy that presses the buzzer before the complete question is being asked, asked, and they get the wrong answer. Right? So for them they value time and, and time is important, don’t get me wrong. And time is the only finite resource that we really, really have.

What the speaker says about the interrupting listening villain is, can’t you just wait? Can’t I just say it fully? Why? Creating friction in our relationship, you’re too busy on task and you just need to wait. Just count one 1000, two 1000, three 1000. And you’ll notice when they take a breath, it’s not a pause, they’re just collecting their thoughts to finish the sentence.

The Dramatic ListenerOscar Trimboli: The final one is the dramatic listening villain who, who connects emotionally. The emotion is the primary way they form connection in a dialogue. Hmm. Jenn described it as a chit chat, how to do the relationship bit. The beginning. What they do is you’ll say to a dramatic listener, I’m really struggling with my manager when they turn up to my meetings for one-on-ones, they’re always late and most of the time they don’t turn up at all. And then the dramatic listening villain who’s trying to form a connection but just moving the spotlight off the speaker onto them will say, wow, you think you’ve got a bad manager? Let me tell you about the worst manager I’ve ever had in my life. And off they go. And they, it’s like, same with the merger, same with a terrible customer. There’s all these situations, what the speaker says when they’re interrupting with the dramatic listening villain is simply this.

It’s all about them. And as a result, I’ll say less and all they’re trying to do is form a connection, but they’re jumping too far and they’re moving the spotlight off the speaker and onto themselves. So when you think about the worst listener, you know, they will have elements over all of those dramatic interrupting, lost and shrew. Which one of those can you relate to the most, Jenn?

Jenn DeWall: I feel like I would probably be more dramatic, but I think because of my younger experience, like, cause I’m very sensitive to other people’s emotions in that regard. I think I attached to that. I think because of my upbringing, I’m relatively like decent at making sure to keep the spotlight. But as you were saying that, I have a friend that I adore , but I like was thinking and I’m like, oh my gosh, this is her. I really love her. But I know sometimes she can rub people the wrong ways because I hear it almost as they describe her as a one upper, like, oh, you went to Australia? Well, I’ve been to Australia 10 times. Oh, you ate this? Well, I ate that, you know, at five different restaurants. And I love her. I’ve known her for over 20 years, so I know how she is. But I think if I had to put another name on it, I’m like, that’s what it’s .

Oscar Trimboli: I like, I like that. The one-upper

Jenn DeWall: Yes. It’s oh my gosh. Like I’ll spare anymore. Because I do love her. But yeah, she, that’s just, and it’s actually to me because I, I find it endearing. Like I know who she is and yeah, I guess, you know, so I find it endearing, but at a workplace that would actually drive me bananas because I would not feel heard and yes, like having it feel like, oh, so it’s about you even though it’s not. And I think full transparency, that many years of therapy that I’ve done throughout my whole life being very mindful of how you’re supposed to approach someone when they are explaining something that’s sensitive and like keeping that spotlight in them. Like that’s something I’m probably more hypersensitive to in emotional situations. I’m probably not gonna be like, oh, you went through this traumatic thing. Let me tell you about mine. But she might do that, and I love her, but she might do that. Let’s talk about the role of bias in the workplace. What role does bias play as it relates to listening?

How Does Bias Hurt Our Listening Skills in the Workplace?Oscar Trimboli: Well, we’ve already spoken about the four primary biases that get in people’s way, emotion, time, relevance to the conversation and problem-solving. And for many of us, we are not conscious of some really simple biases. I I, I’ll give you a very practical one. One bias is do you listen for similar, the familiar or do you listen for difference? Most of us, because of western education systems, because of the scientific method, we are trained to listen for similarity. We don’t know this, it’s a subconscious bias, but the scientific method says, do an experiment, find data, improve, do an experiment, find data, improve in law, you use case data and the history of case data to support the way you do something. You are listening for similarity. You’re not necessarily listening for difference. And for most people, we do a survey in our workshops all around the world, and it’s pretty consistent.

Nine out of 10 people will self-identify as a listening for similarity first and listening for different second. Now again, be aware as I mentioned earlier on, if somebody’s setting up a false binary similar, different is a good example of that there is an option called both. And, and we’ll talk about that as well. So when you think about buyers, I want you to come with me to a story with Christopher and, and Jennifer. And they, they live in Minnesota and Jenn, a stay at home mom. And Christopher was coming home from junior school and he said, mommy, mommy, I’m so excited today I learned that three is half of eight. Now Jennifer thought she misheard him and said, honey, could you say that again? And he said, yes, mommy, we learned that three is half of eight.

Oscar Trimboli: Jennifer thought, Hmm. So she went to the kitchen cupboard and got out a packet of M&Ms and she laid out four M&M chocolate soldiers in one row and four m and m chocolate soldiers in another row and had them facing each other. And she asked Christopher how many M&Ms, and he went, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 1, 2, 3, 4. And she explained to him, you see four, not three is half of eight. You see with that, Christopher jumps off the kitchen bench, gets a sharpie from the corner cupboard and draws the figure eight on a piece of paper. And what he does next is he folds the piece of paper in half and he tears the piece of paper in half and shows his mom two perfectly form threes. And in that moment, Jennifer’s world changed because she just discovered that three is half of eight.

Now, what’s even more interesting, Jenn, is if you turn the eight sideways, tear the piece of paper horizontally, zero is half of eight, three is half of eight, and four is half of eight. Now, when we listen for similarity, what we do is we go, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. Four is half of eight, four is half of eight. Four is half of eight, you’re wrong. And yet when you think in geometry, which is what Christopher meant, not what he said, there are many, many, many possibilities. Zero is half of eight, three is half of eight, four is half of eight. And there are many other options in there as well. But for most of us in workplace conversations, because we listen for similarity, we’re in judgment going, you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong. Have you ever had a three is half of eight moment in the workplace, Jenn, that you kind of go, oh yeah, that’s where my bias showed up.

Confirming the “Afters” to Improve Listening in the WorkplaceJenn DeWall: Absolutely. I think I had one even a month ago when I was working with someone and misunderstood the deadline that they were setting and the deadline that they were setting. I interpreted it as we wanted this basically yesterday, even though I just got it. And then I spent 12 to 14 hours to do it. And then when we came back and I was frustrated in our follow-up conversation that I had had such a low turnaround, and then it was the, you know, the three, three is half of eight moment. No, this was the piece that I thought you would want, not this entire thing that you, and absolutely, yes. And there was a lot of pain in that moment as and frustration as I was, you know, scrambling to get this done because I wanted to do it. The, I just didn’t understand the scope. But yeah, that was absolutely the moment,

Oscar Trimboli: And, and for many of us, we don’t confirm with the speaker what they want. And you’ve used a beautiful illustration there of, in our rush to be on time, we actually missed the deliverable because it wasn’t what they meant, it’s what they said because we interpreted that way through our own lens. But a simple question, would be, so just to confirm, could you outline the deliverable you’re expecting tomorrow? Yeah. That it would’ve had a completely different conversation and you would’ve got 14 hours back in your life, , that you’ll never get back again, right? But, but for many of us, what we, what we choose to do is think that listening is about understanding what the speaker said. When we listen effectively, when we move beyond active listening, and instead of just paraphrasing, we will go back and check with the speaker what they actually meant.

Oscar Trimboli: But if your browser tabs are full in a conversation, you won’t even have the state of mind in place to go, oh, I have to check that. You’ll just do what, what you just did. Thanks for sharing a beautiful and common example of when people struggle with the difference between spoken and what the meaning is actually there. And just remember, if you can take away that 1 25, 900 rule, you can ask three questions that will help you and the speaker. And I think that’ll be helpful for you Jenn, as well. As those listening, these three questions go in different directions.

Using A Compass for Better Listening SkillsOscar Trimboli: If you think about a listening compass, I’m gonna give you a north-south question. North-south questions continue and they help you to listen for more similarity, the more familiar. And now I’m gonna give you an east west question, which will help you listen for difference. And then I’m gonna give you a really powerful technique, the third technique. And this question’s the shortest question of all. So the north south question is a version of, tell me more. Now, if you just use, tell me more in a conversation. And people aren’t used to you using very short language like that, they may get confused and may think it’s an interrogation. So make a humor, make it personal. Wow. Jenn, I’m, I’m fascinated. Could you say more about that? And they will continue talking in a similar way to the issue.

The sequence is probably like this, east, west, next north, south, first, east, west, next we want to ask a question for the difference. And it’s a version of this. And what else? I’m fascinated, is there anything else you’ve considered? Is there anything else you want to explore? Is there, you get the point, but what we’ll do, we’ll move the speaker’s time horizon. Now this is the version of the question I use when I’m working with a client. I simply say this and insert whatever element of this question makes sense for you. I will say, Jenn,

Oscar Trimboli: If your manager was in the room, what’s the question we should have asked ourselves that we haven’t? Jenn, if the shareholders were in the room, Jenn, if the founder was in the room, Jenn, if the customer was in the room, Jenn, if the supplier was in the room, Jenn, if the regulator was in the room, Jenn, if the media was in the room, pick whatever version of that question is helpful for you. Maybe a supply for example, or an employee. But what it does immediately, it stops the speaker immediately and they go, oh, okay. And then they bring up a question that we haven’t discussed it maybe one or maybe two, maybe three. And because we’ve raised it in this discussion, they will raise it in the next discussion with that person. But more importantly, we have gone in a completely different direction in this conversation and we haven’t wasted our time. East west questions should not be asked any later than 40% of the way into the meeting. because then it’s too late, you won’t catch it. If it’s your last question, you’ve missed a massive opportunity.

The Moment of SilenceOscar Trimboli: Now the final technique is the most powerful and done well. It’s liberating, done poorly. It’s intimidating. Here it is a listen carefully because it’s really short.

Now don’t worry, no microphones froze or no video froze. There’s no coincidence that the word silent has the exact same letters as the word listen.

In the West, we have this interesting relationship with silence. We call it the pregnant pause, the awkward silence, the deafening silence in high context cultures, cultures that value the relationship above the task. China, Korea, Japan, the Inuit of North America, the indigenous communities of Australia, the Maori of New Zealand, the Polynesians of the Pacific. Silence is a sign of wisdom, respect, and authority. And simply holding space with silence will show to the speaker you value them, you see them, you hear them, and you’ll want to hear what they’re thinking as well as what they’re meaning.

Jenn DeWall: I love that we did another pause after that one too, , because I will say that that is, you know, especially when I’m nervous, that can be, and I’m sure someone else listening likely has that, that can be the harder piece is to incorporate that pause. I can get that, you know, the anxiety can start to tick up with the pause. But I appreciate even just the different considerations of the value that the pause brings because I, I know I need that reminder. It just because it is such an instinctual, oh, this is uncomfortable.

Holy cow. Okay, better say like 25,000 things that don’t make sense and might derail this. And then I can go and kick myself for it later because I should have actually just embraced the pause. Oscar, I really enjoyed our conversation. I know that we, we could have absolutely carried on for much longer, but could you go ahead and tell our audience how they can connect with you, how they could book you, how they could work with you, where they can get the book, all of the beautiful things or any final messages that you would love to share with them.

Where to Find More From Oscar TrimboliOscar Trimboli: I’d love it if you connected with me, but I’d rather you connected with your own listening in the book How to Listen. We give you directions to ListeningQuiz.com where you can take a 20-question assessment. It’ll be done maximum has ever taken anybody. Seven minutes. Typically it’s gonna take you five minutes. You’ll get a report as well with your primary villain. The book itself will help you go through some of the things in enormous detail. And one of my favorite quotes from an Amazon review about the book was listening. It’s like sex and comedy. We all think we’re better at it than we really are. So I believe if you’re good at listening, you are also good at comedy and sex. But you’ll have to read the book to find out.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much, Oscar. I loved our conversation, and to bring it back, thank you so much for coming on the Leadership Habit. That was a great Amazon review. No, but thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you so much for taking the time. And I mean, hopefully we can all make bigger, we can have better meetings and have better relationships with people if we just focus on how to listen. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Oscar Trimboli: Thanks for listening.

Thanks for Listening to The Leadership HabitJenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast. I really enjoyed my conversation with Oscar and I hope that you did too. Now, as Oscar mentioned at the end of the show, you can go to www.listeningquiz.com, and there you can find out more about your own unique listening style.

And if you want to connect with Oscar to learn more about what he does, and find out more about his books, you can head on over to OscarTrimboli.com. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoy today’s podcast, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast treatment platform. And, of course, if we at Crestcom can help you in any way to develop you or your team or your organization’s leadership skillset, add on over to Crestcom.com. We would love to come into your organization and offer a two-hour complimentary leadership skills workshop. Until next time.

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How to Lead Gen Z at Workplace with Gen Z Expert, Mark BealHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Gen Z expert, Mark Beal to have a conversation about how to manage generations in the workplace. Mark gives us some great insights into how to look at the newest generation coming in, Gen Z! He lets us know how to make sure that we’re getting the best out of people and we’re creating a workplace where people feel that they belong!

But before I go into the show, love You, tell you a little bit more about Mark. Mark Beal is one of the world’s leading Generation Z experts. Mark is an assistant professor of practice in the school of communication and information at Rutgers University, and he has served as a public relations practitioner and marketer for more than 25 years. Mark has authored seven books, including his most recent, ZEO: Introducing Gen Z — The New Generation of Leaders. To learn more about Mark, you can hunt on over and go to MarkBealSpeaks.com. But hey, I hope you enjoy the show and the conversation as Mark and I talk about how to manage different generations in the workplace.

Meet Mark Beal, the Gen Z ExpertJenn DeWall: Good morning, Mark. Welcome to The Leadership Habit podcast. I’m so excited for our conversation. We are going to talk about how to manage a multi-generational workplace. And let me tell you, you recently wrote a book- ZEO – and I want you to dive into that. And our audience has heard a little bit about you, but could you go ahead and tell us about yourself, how you came to be, and tell me a little bit more about the work that you do?

Mark Beal: Absolutely. Jenn, first of all, great to be here with you. And yes, I did just write this book that I’m really excited about! ZEO: Introducing Gen Z – The New Generation of Leaders. So currently I’ve authored four books on Gen Z I’m assistant professor at Rutgers University. They call me a professor of practice because I come from 30 plus years of public relations and marketing on the agency side in New York.

And so, you know, I’ve experienced from an employer standpoint as, as one of the managing partners of the agency, you know, managing and working and collaborating with various generations. I had that experience. But for probably, you know, from 2002, five, 2010, 2015, every assignment, every brief, every RFP we received from a client was how do we engage millennials, right? So that was the focus for many brands, especially the brands I worked with who were category leading consumer brands, whether in food, beverage, apparel, fashion, sports, whatever it might have been.

And so I left a course in after teaching at Rutgers, and I had a light bulb moment. The lip bulb moment was millennials are the focus, have been the focus. But come 2022, 23, 25 and beyond, Gen Z will become the focus, so I just started immersing myself in Generation Z six years ago. And I still have the same routine. Just like today, this morning I wake up and at around 6:00 AM I just search for any recent articles, reports, studies, surveys, and I file all that away and then use that as part of, again, articles. I write books, I write presentations that make, so every day I’m mining for the latest insights on Generation Z. And many of those insights are around Gen Z’s arrival at the workplace.

Gen Z and Their Millennial ManagersJenn DeWall: Yes. No, I love that. And well, it, as someone I remember, even when I came into coaching and it was, that was all the rage, the focus, right? How do we manage those pesky millennials? They are driving us bananas. They want feedback all the time. Who do they think they are? Everyone wants a trophy. I remember that. So like it was yesterday and it was not yesterday. And it’s interesting because where I sit today, it feels like Gen Z is not getting the backlash that millennials got, do you? Is that I just not seeing it?

Mark Beal: I think you are right about that. I think you’re right about they’re, they’re, they’re not, for some reason, they’re coming in as these, and again, I I work with them closely, collaborate with them closely, you know, but they’re coming in as these entrepreneurial, you know, spirited individuals, very tech savvy, digital savvy, with a purpose, all those things. But you raise a point, I’m sure we’ll get into it later, but millennials today, after going deep and immersing myself in this multi-generational workplace, which we have today, right? Almost unprecedented from Gen Zers to boomers. What I’ve found, and what I say and what I talk about is that millennials are the critical, critical, critical, what I call bridge that bridges the newest employees, Gen Z with the leaders, Gen Xers and boomers. And that bridge has gotta be solid. And that bridge, that bridge can’t break. And so millennials are in this all important position of being that bridge.

And they’ve got a lot of pressure. They’ve got a lot of pressure on them because they’re reporting to these senior leaders who’ve been around for 30, 35, 40 years, and that’s what they report to. But they are, you know, responsible for mentoring and managing this, this new group of leaders, these Gen Zers are coming in. So right now, and I’ve talked to millennials one-on-one about this, they feel the pressure. They like the opportunity, they embrace the opportunity, but they, to me, are in the most critical position of any generation right now in the workplace. Because are that bridge from the newest Gen Zers to the Gen Xers and boomers who are, you know, leading companies.

The Multigenerational Workforce: Boomers, Gen X, Millennials & Gen ZJenn DeWall: I love that. Of like them really being the bridge. So let’s level set it. Who are the generations that exist in the workforce today?

Mark Beal: Yeah, I mean in most organizations, right? So we’ll start, right, in most organizations we’ve got boomers, Xers like me. So again, you know, your boomers and X have been working in some capacity 35, 40 years, maybe even a little bit more, right? So what I always say about boomers and Xers, and not to lump them together, but what I say, say is the value they bring in, by the way, all generations bring great value to the, to the workplace, but the value they bring is that experience. Lot of lessons learned, probably a lot of failures along way. Great successes, case studies, and tremendous professional networks of that leverage at any time for any situation, for any challenge, for any opportunity, right? They’ve got all that. And if we go the opposite of the Gen Z has none of that. , you, Gen Z does not have decades of experience.

Gen Z does not have vast professional networks. Gen Z does not have you lessons learned, at least extensive lessons learned and insights and successes and all that. So they don’t have that. But they do bring, again, this entrepreneurial mindset, this entrepreneurial spirit. They do bring incredible tech savviness. They do bring this, you know, social and digital media acumen. And that’s incredibly valuable course in today’s world. So they do bring all of those kinds of things. And then as we said, the millennials, again, to me, they’re that critical, critical bridge between the Gen Zers, between the Xers, between the boomers, and in essence they’re managing up and down every single day. And again, that’s where pressure is, right? You know, if you think about Gen Zers, they are managing up, they’re reporting up. It’s what they’re doing. And boomers they’re managing, they’re leading, but the millennials are smack in the middle of that. And they’re also the point in their where, you know, they’re not the new kids on the block anymore. They’ve been around now 10, 12, 13, whatever it might be, they’re also evolving their career to, they’re reaching those roles, those vice president roles and eventually replace the Xers and the boomers,

Jenn DeWall: Right? Gosh, I think I’m just going through how old I am as well as you’re talking about that. I’m like, I’ve been in the workforce for 18 years, , I mean, and that, and that doesn’t count my early years as a newspaper delivery person or working at the mall. But you know, there is so much that I respect, and I, and I feel that as a millennial, I think it’s, it’s an obligation in my opinion, but not in a negative way. Like I want to help Gen Z like navigate that. Or they just don’t know what they don’t know. And when I think about, even when I entered the workplace, I feel like that was starting to make that shift, right? Like I remember talking to this he had to be, I guess he probably had to be a boomer. He probably is a boomer, right?

If I’m actually thinking about that now. Sure. Yeah. And I remember talking to him and he’s like, I just don’t get it. I do not understand it. And he was an executive for the company that I worked with. He’s like, I was brought up in work you had to do because you know, you needed to get it done. You didn’t get to have fun, you needed to put your head down like this wasn’t that. And he’s like, and now I watch all of you and you want this to be fun. He’s like, and he was lovely. Like he was still just perplexed by it of like, yeah, what is going on in here? And, and I still, it was very endearing conversation, but it is true. Like I feel like the millennials came up right when there was a bigger workforce kind of shift. And I think that I just love Gen Z and I know we’re gonna dive into it because I think Gen Z is pushing it to the next level. But why is it important? Because I know that like even sometimes for me, I’m like, do, does it matter still as much to look at generations? Because should we be looking at all of the differences that we have instead of, you know, just that one. Like why is it important to understand the generations?

Why is Understanding Generational Differences Important?Mark Beal: First of all, completely agree with you. You raise a great point, right? In this age of a prioritization on diversity inclusion, right? A sense of belonging, especially 2020 where companies start to prioritize diversity, inclusion, equity, you right? Generations and age is just one factor. One factor. There’s so many factors like the, you know, the different experience people bring, the, the different backgrounds they have. Just so many things. When we talk about diversity and inclusion, one of the areas that doesn’t get talked about too much is actually age, which is interesting. I heard that from like, you know, an Xer and a boomer where cause you hear, you know, every once in a while you hear about ageism and they say, you know, the age element doesn’t come up too often when companies are talking about this idea of DEI. And so that was an interesting insight I received too when I was kinda delving into different generations of the workplace.

Just the fact that maybe, you know, some of the older, more senior Xers and boomers are like, yeah, but should be a factor in DEI, too, right? Just as different backgrounds and all those kinds of things are. So its really interesting where we, just to go back real quick, to your point, so I’m a I’ll, I’ll admit it, I’m a 56 year old Xer, so I am on the older side of Gen X. So to your point, boomers roughly, you know, are, are, you know, right around 60 plus, right? So there are plenty of 60, 61, 60 still actively working, still actively leading companies, right? So that’s, you know, we talk boomers there. And again, I’m just using round years, you know, 60 plus, you know, then you’ve got your Xers like me in those kinda late fifties, mid fifties, early fifties, right? And then all of a, as you said, millennials believe it, they’re in their forties.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, I’m 40. I’m not happy about it,

Mark Beal: Why I wrote the CEO e book, but a year ago I wrote a book called Gen Z graduates to Adulthood. And the reason I wrote that was Gen Z’s last year turned 25. This year, they turned 26, which again, even in me, that’s, wow, they’re already, that sounds old to me. When just a few years ago they were all in school, you know, college, high school, middle school, elementary school. So that was another reason, kinda for the last two books is that, you know, Gen Zers, aren’t those kids anymore just in school? They’re actually the oldest, if they’re six, potentially are four, maybe five years into their career. So they’ve already gone from entry level to maybe supervisor roles or manager roles.

Gen Z Wants to Belong at WorkJenn DeWall: Yeah. And again, I appreciate so much about Gen Z and when I, and I appreciate that you said the age that it’s often left out of conversations on diversity, equity and inclusion and belonging. And I admit, like I was one of those people that’s like, can we not talk about generations? But even as you were saying it, my light bulb moment was no, because I have been in rooms, I absolutely can think about being in a, like I was leading an event and someone had come up, like had talked about ageism, they had recently went through, you know, like their organization was going through layoffs and they were really concerned about that. They would be the ones out. And we do have to talk about that. Or even I think of, oh gosh, I’ve even been a part of team, like, let’s call ’em team building events that were very heavily physically active and we had someone that was 75 and not active.

And you know, you think about capabilities in that regard or interest in that regard, or even just having kind of like cliques in the workplace Yeah. Where you feel like I can’t, you know, because I’m old, I can’t go over and talk to the new kids because I, you know, may not understand it or maybe it’s vice versa. And so I do, I I really just appreciate you bringing that up because you’re right, we actually really do need to be talking about that because we are going to look at things different. And we do need to make sure everyone feels that they they belong.

Mark Beal: I love first interrupt, sorry, the B word. I love that you brought up belonging two, three times powerful, powerful world. Cause again, you could apply to a company, you get a hired guy to a company, you could say, we’ve got a job here, we’re gonna pay a salary. But ultimately you wanna like belong there. You don’t wanna feel like a cog in the machine. In like, well, I’ve got, I’m part, like you said earlier, I’m having fun. The is good. I’m having fun. If this company it’s a belong, belong, belonging is such a powerful word. I love you brought it up. Because it’s it’s powerful and not everybody who might be included, meaning they’ve been offered a job, they work here, they still may not feel they belong. They may be included, right? Cause they’ve been offered a job, they’re getting a salary and they have an office and all that, but they may not feel that belonging.

And so I think going back to your point on we’ll call age or ageism, there’s that reverse ageism too, I think where a 21 or 22 year old may get treated like, well that person’s young. They dunno anything. Just put em in the corner. Give them a couple of tasks to do, right? They could have that feeling like, boy, being the young one here, I, you know, I don’t feel like I belong. I feel like they’re treating me like, you know, the child, because I’m the young one. So I think I can see it kind of going both ways.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and it, and this is where I think we should dive into like where do leaders get it wrong or expand on that, where are leaders may be getting this wrong. Because even as you say that I can think of, I have been really, really lucky to work with, I would consider some just amazing Gen Zers. Like I have loved working with all of them. I found them extremely coachable, extremely eager to learn. And yet, and, and I embrace that. I might get a little bit, like, I’ve definitely had those times where I’m like, oh my gosh. Like, okay, all right, well let’s level set this and have that conversation. But I’ve also observed people kind of being like, yeah, you are this annoying little kid. Like go over there. And that makes me feel really bad for them because you see all this untapped potential and interest to want to learn, to, to want to connect. So let’s, let’s dive into it. Where, from your perspective, where do leaders get it wrong?

What do Leaders Get Wrong About Gen Z?Mark Beal: Well, I think overall, first there is no one size fits all. So to your point, even though we are all employees of whatever organization, it’s right, we all have come from, again, different backgrounds. We’re part of different life stages, different generations, all those things. So as a leader, it can’t be just a approach. Well this is gonna work for all employees, whatever the initiative, whatever the program is, right? We have to really dive into those different generations and understand where are they in their life stage? Where are they in their careers? What are those aspirations? What are those values, right? It’s fine to say that a Gen Zer has completely different mindset as it comes to work because again, they’re just starting their career compared to someone, again, I’ll say an old Gen Xer, you know, an older Gen Xer who completely different 30 plus years into my career, you know, I’ve got a different set of goals, different objectives over the next five, 10 years compared to that Gen Z.

So I think first is just understanding that there are multiple generations. They have different experiences, different backgrounds, different mindset, different objectives, different goals based on where they’re, and part of that, where they’re is, where they’re from an age standpoint. And then the second part, which we kinda talked about earlier, and I believe this wholeheartedly, and I say it all the time, every generation, every individual, no matter, you know, whatever their age, they all bring value to the workplace. Measurable value to the workplace. Again, older generations, more experience, more networks, more success, more this younger generations, more tech savvy, more maybe more entrepreneurial. And so a leader has to recognize that too. And so, again, not to promote the book, but the point of ZEO was, and I say this to companies all the time when they invite me in, you know, empower those recent hires who just started this year or next year or whatever, and empower them as what I call ZEOs.

Meaning give them an initiative, a project, a program, a challenge, an opportunity that maybe you, you’ve kinda pushed to the side cause just don’t have time to do it. Well, let them put their minds against, against it. Let them put that entrepreneurial spirit against it. Let them put their tech against it. You might be shocked at what they come back with. Meaning something that could actually help the company drive more business, be more efficient, more effective, more inclusive, more whatever. And so I think that’s the idea too, is like recognize these differences, these different generations and understand that they all bring value, but they also have different objectives, different goals, different mindset, different values, and how can we mobilize them for the greater good of the entire company?

There is No One-Size-Fits-All in Any GenerationJenn DeWall: Yes. I love that there’s not a one size fits all. Yes. And how can you leverage the value that they bring? And maybe this is a point to talk about what are some, some of the, and it’s again, we’re not saying cause we know that there are, are stereotypes and everyone has a lived different lived experience. Yes. But in general, you know, you gave one frame of reference that’s helpful to look at, which is what career stage is someone in, right? Yeah. Gen Z is just entering a baby boomer might be retiring or nearing retirement. What are some other indicators that might be helpful for someone to keep in mind that they’re naturally going to come to the table from a different perspective? I guess I even flip here, we haven’t even said the T word yet, which I’m so really surprised by is technology haven’t full technology. Gen Z, they’ve only ever known the internet.

Mark Beal: . Exactly. You know, the great quote, which again, not mine, but I wish it was, it was from the CMO of MTV, Jacqueline Parks, GenZ is the first generation that learned to swipe before they wiped– great quote .

Jenn DeWall: But that’s a great way of understanding how they started their life or connection with technology. I, yeah.

Technology and Gen ZMark Beal: And to your point, so technology has been in their hands since the age of two, three. They embrace technology, they, they welcome and other programs that will make conducting work whatever work it might be more efficient, more effective. Now I think we have millennials usher that in for sure. Think Gen Zs just expedited it, right? But millennials were the first who, you know, kinda put pressure on company, said, Hey, we’ve gotta get up to date with technology here. Like we’re, we’re running, you know, old stuff here. We’ve got, let’s be more faster, more efficient. This, have we tried this? Millennials always give ushered alot of these things. These like Gen Zs baton move maybe a little bit more quickly. But yeah, that’s a good one. Technology’s a great one because again,

It can be a, a divider in ways, but if a leader looks at it the right way can, it can bring people together. Cause again, again, I just myself is easiest way to do it can always point to myself as a Gen ZersI not tech savvy. I am not as embracing of technology as a Gen Zer, as maybe a millennial. So that could be an area where in the workplace I’m all a sudden you we’re introducing, I’m making it up. Some sort of new communication technology to come. Well, someone at my age might be adverse to it, might be hesitant, might be nervous, might be concerned, right? Am I able to understand this, can I work this? I may not voice that. Whereas a Gen Zer, you know, within second, this is great, this is gonna help us get work. They’re, they’re already on it. They’re already, they’ve already adopted before the company’s even it play. So you’re right, technology is a big one. The experiences and adoption of technology across generations for sure, especially in the workload.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And I, I think I just, my head goes back to this one video that I had seen that was called Managing Millennials. And it was a parody video making fun of millennials. So I, I was fully here for it. Because as a millennial, I, I get the, the stereotypes and whatnot doesn’t offend me. But one of the things they talked about was they, or they, in the video it was a manager asking someone to do something and they, they said, did you do the research that I asked you to do on Bliss? And it’s like, I googled it and she was like, what? Why did you Google, why did you Google? Like, you know, and I think that, but I also, as a millennial, I am, I’m very tech inept, Mark. Like I am not very smart. And I think of even my grandma who just turned 87, hi grandma, she doesn’t listen to this, but I love you so much.

My grandma is incredibly tech savvy. She has, she loves automatic bill pay, like electronic bill pay. She’s got her Facebook account, she has her Alexa, she’s got her Kindle. She has anything that she can get her hands on to make her life easier. She just thinks technology is the coolest thing. And I say that because a lot of people assume that maybe older generations can’t or won’t or don’t have an interest. And I can tell you that my grandma can fully put you down and she’s 87 and she loves all, she does her YouTube exercises of Tai Chi every single morning. She goes on Tai Chi in does chair exercises. She loves what technology brings. Think how many doors that opened for her! Back from retirement, they both used to talk about how they had party lines growing up.

Avoid Stereotyping by GenerationMark Beal: Right. We can’t stereotype everybody. We can’t put everyone in the box, right? I think the other thing that you, you hit on there that bridges to an area that right now, every day I’m having conversations about this, and I think it ties into the, we’ll call it the generational differences, is work location, right? So you’ve got companies now that, again, if they’re being led by, we’ll call it boomers and Xers who are used to being in the office, used to going into the office five days a week, comfortable with being in a physical office around people are saying, we gotta get back. We need, you know, back to three days, four days, five days. I just spoke to an executive yesterday whose company back starting this month, five days a week. And her response was I bet there’s gonna be a of people leaving. So that’s, I think a huge issue now and will continue to be, cause one, this is just me.

We’re never going back to five days. That’s just me. I don’t, or if they I agree with you or they back, you’ll lose great talent. So I think there’s a generational divide there because again, not be stereotypical, but an old like me feels really comfortable commuting into the office, going into the office, spending hours and hours and hours in the office where a Gen Z said, boy, I just graduated college for two or three of those years. I was never even in the classroom. I did remotely. Right? I can do this remotely. And I had a great conversation two days who is a Gen Zer, two years into her career. And she said, what I love is that those days I don’t have to commute in. And I think she goes in two days a week. She goes, first of all, I’m not wasting an hour each commuting, messing with weather, driving, taking the train, whatever it might be, two during the course of day.

I’ve got a break, I can actually go out, walk for 30 minutes. I can’t do that in my office. And all of a sudden I come back recharged refreshed, ready to go. And I will probably do more work longer in the day now because I’ve had that opportunity. So I think is, we’re seeing little bit, especially companies of start and say, okay, we’ve been out long enough, let’s get now three days, four days, five days. Yeah. And again, I think the, the result will be you’re gonna lose great talent who’ll find other companies that are now have completely transformed and transitioned to either five days remote or, you know, we come in when we need to or whatever it might be.

Leading Gen Z and the Hybrid WorkplaceJenn DeWall: No, I agree with you that I don’t think that we’ll ever go back to five days. I mean, there’s different reasons of why I think it’s beneficial to go into the office, mental health being one, which we should dive into that one. But I can validate what you said. I have a coaching or I have a client that is a director and they recently had forced a mandatory return to office and they did it for, even, they did it for like a, not a long period of time. They just wanted everyone in for like a two month period to work on some big work like big projects. And now they’re finding the aftermath of that, that people are leaving. And when asked, they said that was actually a big factor of why they left. And so we do have to be mindful because people have choices.

I know that we might be going into a, you know, a recession and that might change it a little bit here in the U.S. But people will absolutely vote with their flexibility. And we have to be mindful of that because there’s someone else that is willing to give that. But I do think there’s a right way. I also had someone in my, in one of my Crestcom leadership classes this week talk about how their company is doing a they’re doing like a yearlong kind of pilot of a return to office. So it’s not something that they’re like pushing right away. They’re just kind of seeing what they can do. And like ideally their goal would be to get everyone back into the office, but they’re just trying it out for a year to see what they can learn.

So it’s not this full, it’s gonna happen. It’s, we’re gonna figure this out, see what works, see what doesn’t, and find that balance and that blend, which I do think there’s a balance with it. I mean I work all the time from home and maybe I get lonely. Like today the tree people are here. Those would be the only people that I would talk to face to face. I mean, I get lonely. I like having a team and I think there’s something to be said about going into office because of mental health and because of connection and why we need that, which I’m kind of into.

Workplace Flexibility Will Soon Be the NormMark Beal: Yeah. No, I agree with you there. And then we’ll bridge to mental health. I also love test and learn, test and learn. So let’s do it and try it. You are seeing companies try the four day work week, again, 10 years now, I predict there’ll be a lot more companies doing the four day work week. I really do. So that’s one. Two, I’ve talked to some CEOs, and there’s different names for this, but one of them calls it, we offer six weeks of being a digital nomad. Which again goes back to the balance that you talked about. So digital nomad for this company is not vacation time. You’ve got your vacation, but six weeks a year you can go to your favorite mountain, your favorite beach, wherever you want, and work from there. As a company, we know you’re there working, but we also know you’re there enjoying this beautiful area that you like to go and get away from the usual.

So we also know to be respectful of your time and we’re not gonna, you know, kind of reach out to you at eight o’clock at night and say, let’s have a conference call. So I love that too. Because it’s kinda a, it’s kinda a hybrid before between my company knows I’m working, I am working, but I’m doing it at a destination where I’m getting away mentally. When the workday’s done, I can now go hike that mountain, that ocean, whatever it might be. So I heard that and I love that. And I worked that into the book too. Cause I get, to me, that goes to the point of view. It just, it’s this idea of balance, right? The balance between working remotely, collaborating in person, getting the chance to escape, go away. I, I think, and I think you just alluded to it, I agree, I work more remotely from this office than I ever worked actually in my other office, even though I put in hours and hours there.

But because you know, at 10 at night I can quickly respond to an email or send an email or do this where typically in the old days with the office, you know, once left the office that was, I’m done with the office, now I’m home. And there was transition. And actually if I ever clocked it, I think I probably put more time in now remotely. But I also get the chance, like when we get done here, I might have a chance that I can go out and go get a quick bike ride in or a run in or a walk in. And again, mentally that’ll help me get through my afternoon.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. I mean, I can tell you for me personally, I get more done because I don’t have people to talk to.

Jenn DeWall: True. I’m not, you know, bugging everyone. Hey, hi. You wanna check in, tell me what’s happening with your weekends? No, true. Yeah. So people are probably more productive without me in an office and I’m definitely more productive. True. Cause I’m not. And I love those things.

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Gen Z and Mental Health at WorkJenn DeWall: All right. Like in rounding it out, you know, mental health has been a big topic as it relates to how our workforce has really changed over the past few years. And I know the pandemic, you know, obviously like really pushed that too. But Gen Z was a big proponent of mental health. And I mean, tell me more about that. You’re, you’re an expert or you know, way more about this than I do, but I really admire what they brought in terms of getting us to finally talk about our flipping feelings that we all have or to, you know, be mindful of that.

Mark Beal: I love Jenn that you’re saying that cause that’s exactly what I, that’s exactly how I would position it too. First of all, for Gen Z, mental health is a top, top, top or the top priority and what I call goal setting area, more so than their career development, more so than their financial fitness, more so than even their physical fitness. Mental health is number one, it’s a focus. It’s an area that they want their favorite brands to actually have campaigns around to socialize it more, as you said. And so that’s number one. Number two starting with my class of 22, so last year, that was the first time that I had my students called me and said, Hey, great news. I just got the job. And guess what? They’re giving me mental health days. One a month, one a quarter, whatever it might be.

Now maybe the old days we sick days, maybe we called PTO days. We never called them mental health days last or so companies are acknowledging that too, that we all need mental health days. Obviously those companies need to carry that through. I was speaking to group of executive recruiters at a conference and they said, well what, what happens when someone takes mental health days? Well, pretty, they simply send email team hey I need a mental health day, and there should be no pushback on that, on that why you’re, when are you back. And then the follow-up question was, what do they do all day? I said, they do whatever they need to do. Maybe they sit on their couch day, maybe they go for a hundred mile bike ride. It doesn’t matter what its is, they just need time to reset, recharge, all those kinds of things. And so, to your point, I, I think one there’s a combination of things going on, I think from, I’ll call the world of celebrity.

The Evolution of Work Life Balance in the WorkplaceSelena Gomez, Michael Phelps, Simone Biles, Naomi Osaka and others have made this a public discussion and conversation, which has great. So they’ve put a spotlight on it. Simone Biles during the Olympics, Michael Phelps always talks about mental health and Gen Z, as you said, is not afraid to discuss it, not afraid to share it. It’s important to them. So they, they also wanna make this a discussion. So I do think in 10 years, Gen Z will get a lot of the credit for making mental health less taboo, more open, more of an open dialogue. And I do think we’re gonna see a lot more companies making mental health part of advertising, marketing, social media campaigns, again, make it more open. Employers are responding already. One last point, I follow this. October is mental health day each year. This past year, 2022 was the first time I can remember that companies big on the global scale. Large corporations and small agencies of 50 people closed that day. And basically their employees take the day, take the day, you know, take the day, recharge, rest, call a timeout, whatever you have to do. Well, if we get momentum around that, and that becomes something every year plus mental health plus the chance to be a digital nomad, now we’re getting things that goes back to your, your main point. It’s offering balance. So now we’re, we’re getting that more, that work life balance that we’ve been striving for for decades and really haven’t achieved as of yet.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. I just, I want that world. Yeah. That’s like something I am in, I have a mom who is schizophrenic. I have depression myself, and I want a world where we feel comfortable talking about mental health. Yeah. And I think that it’s, you know, anxiety, I have that as well. And I know a ton of people that have anxiety, but you know, I think that organizations are taking that first step. And I love that with the mental health day. Now we just need to equip leaders to actually talk about feelings. And I’m here for it because I, I actually empathize a lot with like baby boomers, you know, lately in my work, I feel like I’m finding older men keep coming to me for coaching because they want to talk about their emotions. Because they have not been able to talk about them before. And they’re like, I don’t know how I’ve been so successful? I, I remember one and he’s very successful. And he’s like, why the heck am I, you know, I’m 49 years old and I am struggling with this. And I think that’s because we have not yet talked about it. And I just collapsed to Gen Z collapsed that like finally giving people permission to have flipping feelings.

Mark Beal: That’s it. You know, Jenn, we’re not there yet, but at least we’re slowly getting there. And as you said, at least the dialogue is starting. And and I always say this too, a mental health day may not solve any of this, but it’s, it’s part of this overall conversation overall mindset of mental health is really important. We have to share, talk, discuss and a mental health day just contributes to that again, bigger attempt at at doing that. And like I said, I think in a decade we’re gonna be in a much better place than we’re today. I mean, we have to be,

Leaders Can’t Have Blinders On When it Comes to the Transformation of WorkJenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I just love that world. I’ve loved all the changes. And I know that we have to wrap, but I wanna keep talking about this. Any final thoughts on, you know, tips about how to, you know, bridge those generational gaps? I know that you talked about it’s not a one size fits all, it’s understanding the value. Anything in closing that you feel like you missed that would be beneficial to our audience?

Mark Beal: I would just say, I guess, you know, every, I gotta be careful what I say here, but I think everybody, you know, everybody is a leader within the workplace. Some may be leader by years of service, by age, by what they’ve accomplished, all those kinds of things. But I guess we all need to be open-minded, which I think is one of the themes of this conversation to each other. To, to our values, our mindsets, our goals, our objectives, right? We, I guess better word, we just can’t put the blinders on. And leaders, specifically leaders who have the title of leaders, the C-suite, they really can’t have the blinders on. They have to be openminded open to write everything to all generations in the workplace because you said it. And I think 2020 is like the, the line in the sand. We’ve, the workplace has changed drastically since 2020. We’re not going back to a lot of things and we’re only moving forward. And so leaders, to me it’s gotta be about transformation and innovation. Now as far as the workplace employees, your colleagues, all those kinds of things,

Jenn DeWall: I love that you just said the transformation and putting that on the C-suites. Because I think that the shift when I entered the workforce, if I didn’t like it, it was like, well bye Jenn, you go have a great career. And today if they don’t like what a leader’s doing, they’re like, bye, have a great company. I’m gonna go to someone else. That is so feel that power shift. And so I think accountability looks different in today’s workplace.

Mark Beal: Yeah. Raise power shifted significantly since 2020. We saw it first come to fruition through the great resignation, and I think that was flag better word. I think that was actually great. Because now the employees had the power and as you said, so long, I’ve got another place I’m gonna go where I’m be in a better position, whatever might be. And that also is not going away. Maybe we don’t have the great resignation now anymore. We don’t call that anymore. But I agree with you. The employee is in power now and let’s hope they continue to be in power.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, there Mark again, I could have, I wanted to, I wanna continue this conversation in 25 different ways, but I know that we can’t, so if people want to continue the conversation with you, how can they best get in contact with you?

Where to Find More from Mark BealMark Beal: Yeah, absolutely. So again, all my, you know, from a book perspective, including z all the books are on Amazon, so easy to find. My website is MarkBealSpeaks.com and if they go there, you know, my email, my contact is there. But also all my you know, media articles, speeches, I’ve done all those great things and always available, always interested, always eager to, to have these kind of conversations.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. And you’re, I mean, I’ve worked with you a few times. You’re one, you’re one of Crestcom’s new subject matter experts. We’re so excited to have you in our curriculum. And I can tell you from working, you know, to our audience, from working with Mark, he is incredibly passionate, incredibly knowledgeable. You’re a fantastic speaker. You’d be an asset to anyone that is wanting to further or have these conversations of understanding the generations in the workplace. So Mark Beal Speaks, check him out. Mark, thank you for coming on the show.

Mark Beal: Jenn, thank you very much. I love our discussion.

Thank You for Listening to The Leadership HabitJenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast with Mark. I loved our conversation. Mark is actually one of our newest Subject Matter Experts in Crestcom’s leadership curriculum, talking about how to build generational connections. He is someone that is just so well versed in this. And if you want to learn more about him, you can go to Amazon.com and there you can find Mark’s latest book, ZEO: Introducing Gen Z— The New Generation of Leaders. And you can also purchase his other books. And of course you can find him at markbealspeaks.com.

If you want to develop your team, if you want to see Mark’s class! If you want to learn more about how to give your leaders, whether it’s Gen Z or baby boomers or Gen X or millennials, you want to learn how to give them the best tools that they need to succeed, head on over to crestcom.com. There you can find out about our free complimentary monthly webinars. You can also find out more about our complimentary two hour skills workshop and learn more about what Crestcom does to create a world of better leaders. If you enjoyed this episode, share it. And we would also love a review on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, have a great day everyone.

The post Gen Z in the Workplace — What Managers Need to Know, with Mark Beal, Gen Z Expert appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Creating a Breakthrough Strategy with CEO Coach and Author, Patrick TheanIn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Patrick Thean to talk about how to create a breakthrough strategy in any organization. I loved my conversation with him and learned so many different insights, tools, and tricks. But before we get into the show, let me tell you a little bit more about Patrick.

Patrick Thean is an international speaker. He’s a CEO coach, and he’s a serial entrepreneur. He is a USA Today and Wall Street Journal bestselling author. His work has been seen on NBC, CBS, and Fox. Patrick was named Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year in 1996 for North Carolina as he grew his first company to number 151 on the Inc 500 (now known as the Inc 5000). And after a successful exit, he has been on a mission to help CEOs not fail— but instead build great companies and achieve their dreams. And I truly hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did, as Patrick and I discussed how we can create breakthroughs in our strategies.

Meet Patrick Thean, Entrepreneur, Speaker, CEO Coach and AuthorJenn DeWall (01:18): Patrick Thean, it is so great to have you here today. Welcome to the Leadership Habit Podcast. I’m excited to gather– as the audience heard– your wealth of experience around organizations, businesses, and what it takes to build success. And today, of course, we’re going to be talking about how to create breakthroughs and your strategies, which I feel like anyone listening is probably like, yes, how do I do this? How do I look at them differently? How can I, you know, create greater results or have a greater impact? Before we dive into our episode today, I would love to just have our audience learn a little bit more about you. And so, could you go ahead and just give us your origin story, tell us who you are and how you came to be?

Patrick Thean (02:02): Well, first, thank you so much for having me on your podcast. It’s amazing the podcast you do, and I’m so glad to be here. So thank you so much for inviting me.

Jenn DeWall (02:09): You’re welcome!

Patrick Thean (02:10): I am a serial entrepreneur, which means I’ve done this multiple times. And I would say that I started working at Oracle Corporation a long time ago, and then I started my first company right out of that. And my first company, we grew very fast. In seven years, we grew to about 25 million sales. We were Inc 500, we were 151 on the Inc. 500. And after seven years, we, we sold and we had a good exit. And the company was a software company in the supply chain space. Now, from the outside looking in, we looked really successful, but from the inside looking out, I felt like we were just running from one crisis to another crisis. And it’s kinda like we had a crisis, great, we survived, and then the next crisis. And then, oh my gosh, we survived that, too, within the next crisis season.

Patrick Thean (03:00): Oh my gosh, we, we survived that too. And you string that together. Seven years went by, we became very successful. We sold the company. And I look back and I go, wow, how did that happen? And, and I, I’m just so thankful that we were successful. Like I said, from the world looking in, we were look very successful from the inside looking out, very stressful. So my learnings from that was that I had good strategies, but my problem was lack of execution, getting things right, getting commitments done. And so once I sold my company, and I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, by the way. And so lots of entrepreneurs asked me for help, and I did. And in doing so, I began to realize that, gee, I wasn’t as dumb as I thought I was! The mistakes I made, unfortunately, they were prevalent in a lot of other entrepreneurs who asked me for help as well.

A Quest to Help Companies Execute Their Breakthrough StrategyPatrick Thean (03:50): And around that time in 1999, an article came out on Fortune Magazine about why CEOs fail, or I should say why companies. The punchline is that the CEOs could not get their strategies executed. That was the punchline. It wasn’t for lack of strategy. It was poor execution. And I thought deeply about that and came to the conclusion that I totally agree. So that started a 20-year journey for me. Over the last 20 years, there has been my quest to really take a look at why companies fail and help them not fail, but succeed. And I totally concur that most of the companies I’ve met fail due to having trouble due to a lack of execution, which for me means achieving the commitments that they have made. So commit whatever you’ve committed to your customers, to employees. If you’re not achieving those commitments, then you have poor execution.

And poor execution comes back to you in, in the form of mistakes, rework. And ultimately, it hurts profitability. People don’t realize it, and they often think that they have a poor strategy, but oftentimes it’s just that they did not commit and do the work that they were supposed to do. It was really poor execution. So that’s my quick brief and, and I, I kind of lift the data, help CEOs not fail because the failure rate of CEOs and, and founders and presidents are really high. And so my, my, my whole focus is to help these folks not fail, but rather succeed and, and build great companies and achieve their dreams.

Jenn DeWall (05:27): Well, and the first thing I want to say is, incredible success! And especially your vulnerability with talking about the fact that yeah, from the outside looking in, we looked great, but the inside we had to practice resilience. We had a lot of crises that we were managing around and that you kept, you know, overcoming. And I appreciate you sharing that one, because someone listening to this I’m guaranteeing might feel like the organization is, is also in a crisis in some way, or their team is in a crisis. The second piece that I love that you share is how to help CEOs not fail. And I think we do need to talk about the fact that failures do happen. You can’t have a breakthrough without them. They happen. And I, and I say that maybe because for the past few weeks, I’ve heard more people feeling like, oh my gosh, I failed at this and I did that, and you know, they will happen. That is a part of our journey as much as I know that US achievers do not like that. So I appreciate you just having that quest to even talk about failure or to talk about when things get tough, what do you do? And especially to those that are at the top that may not have the resources to be able to talk that through, because I can only imagine the pressure cooker that you and your clients are in when you’re talking about these things.

Before the Breakthrough— Everybody Fails!Patrick Thean (06:42): Yeah, it’s amazing. And, you know, everyone has failures every day. We have tiny little failures. Those are not bad things. Actually, I think we learn a lot. I learn a lot more from my mistakes and, and rather than from my successes. And so these tiny failures, what you wanna do though, is learn from them and do much, much better. So you don’t, you can avoid the massive failure, the massive failure where you have to like start all over. So that would be like the bad thing. But yes, I think that you know, I really believe by the way, that we should all strive to make mistakes. Because if, if you’re not making any mistakes, that means you’re playing too safe. That means you’re not pushing the edge. I had a CEO tell me once, he said, Hey Patrick, I really want you to come in here and help me with my creative process.

And he said, but I want you to do it in such a way that we don’t make mistakes, and I don’t want any waste. This, CEO, by the way, is one of my best clients as far as execution, getting things done, achieving his commitments, A + +. And I shared with him, I said, Hey, you know, in this case, I’m sorry, but creativity, innovation is kind of the enemy of efficiency. So if, if you wanna do a creative process, now is the time to actually not be efficient. But to accept that you’re gonna try a number of things. Some of these pre-strategies are gonna actually fail, and you’re gonna learn from them. But if you’re not doing that, then you’re not pushing the edge, then you’re not pushing it out there in your competition, I promise you will beat you. So if you wanna beat your competition and win in your category, you have got to be willing to put it out there, test some things, make some mistakes, learn quickly, and then execute very well.

Make Mistakes and Learn Quickly to Find Breakthrough StrategiesJenn DeWall (08:26): My, yes. Oh my, I feel like everyone needs that reminder because I think it exemplifies the growth mindset, right? Knowing that we’re gonna make mistakes, but it’s how we pick ourselves up and learn from them. But it also combats probably one of the biggest things that also might impact execution of strategy, I’m guessing ego. Yes. And our need to get everything right or feeling like we’re the best. But, you know, it gives you permission to soften your ego, or at least that’s how your message sounded to me.

Patrick Thean (08:56): Yeah. Need to, you know, I’ll tell you, use it . I’ll tell you, I a few years ago, my, my one of my employees shared me. He said, he said, Hey, Patrick, you know, we, we have, we we’re a great company and we were all rah-rahing about being a great company. And in my heart, I, I just knew we weren’t a great company. And, and so I stopped us. And I, I said to the team, I said, Hey, we’re not a great company. We’re a good company, but we’re not a great company because these are our performance numbers. Now we are in great, we’re a nice company, we’re great culture. Yes. But from a performance standpoint, if we would like to call ourselves a great company, these are the numbers we’ve got to hit. We’re not hitting these numbers. So I’m sorry guys.

Are You Really Great – Or Could You Use Some Help?Patrick Thean (09:42): We can’t be a great, we can’t call ourselves a great company. Now, when I shared that, I think a number of people who were stunned, they were stunned that, that me, the CEO would say that we’re not a great company, but we were not a great company. And I’ll share with you, we all like to think that we’re the best team in the world. I mean, I work with so many CEOs and all of them tell me when I walk in, they say, Patrick, you know, I have the greatest team. I have the best team. Well, the funny part is that if I have a hundred clients and all a hundred clients think that, that the best team, clearly 99 of them don’t, right? I mean, best means the ultimate bestest one. And I tell you, I just remember years ago, one of my friends and customers went to see a venture capital ABC group to get money to fund them this 20 years ago.

And I, I told him, I said, Hey Mike, do me a favor. When you go in there, just don’t say that. You have a great team. Don’t say that, okay? Everything else is great. And so you went in there, he did his, his presentation and he, he said he had a great team and they threw him out of the meeting. He called me later. He said, Patrick I said, we had a great team and they threw me out. I said, what, what happened? He said, well, he told me that if I had such a great team, then clearly I don’t need his money cause I got no problem to fix.

So the moral of that story is that we all have problems to fix. It’s okay. In fact you know, the faster we figure that out, the more time we have to fix it. So don’t be afraid of the mistakes you’ve made or being able to say, Hey, we screwed up over here and in this area we’re a great team, but in this area we’re a weak team. Oh, go fix it. It’s okay. But if you keep insisting that everything looks gorgeous and everything’s number one, you won’t fix your issues and you’ll not have great execution

Jenn DeWall (11:28): Right now, I feel like you could mic-drop your podcast of what you just said. We all have problems to fix. And because I think you do see that in business where we don’t want to own our problems for a variety of reasons. We just don’t because it doesn’t feel good. But I love that point that you just made. If we all have problems to fix, make your mistakes so you can spend the majority of your time fixing those so you can be ahead in your market. I mean, we could end the podcast right there. We’re not going to, but we could. I love that insight,

Jenn DeWall (11:58): So let’s talk about the problems that organizations can fix. And let’s dive into a little bit about the work that you do with rhythm systems too, because I would love to share more of that with our audience. How do you serve your customers?

Breaking Through the Ceiling of ComplexityPatrick Thean (12:10): So let’s talk about breakthroughs. Because the, the customers that we serve, they tend to be mid-market firms. They, they tend to already have a, a stream of revenue and, and some number of, of employees. And most of them hit what I call the ceiling of complexity. Things are going well. And, but life begins to get complicated because of their success. So those are the kind of, those are the profiles of companies that we, we serve. We typically don’t serve companies that are, like, I had a friend call me and say, Patrick, can you help me with turnaround? And I said, no, we don’t do turnarounds. Now I could, I can do a turnaround, but that’s not what I’m a specialist in. And that’s not what we live to get up and do every day. So we really help companies that hit the ceiling of complexity and how do we punch through?

So I always get that question of how do we have the breakthroughs? So usually this is what happens. You have success, you get to a point where you are overeating from the buffet of opportunities. That’s the profile. You are too many good things happening. And as an entrepreneur. You’re not used to saying no to opportunities. It’s hard. But what’s happening now is that you’re so successful that you have so many opportunities that you can’t focus. So you take on 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 projects or priorities and your team gets scattered. You don’t have the resources to actually do them all. And so you begin to fail here and there and you kind of freak out. So my clients will all say, Patrick, how do we, how do we get, get breakthrough strategies, and break through that ceiling of complexity? Does that resonate with you? Is that is this a good topic for us to talk about?

Jenn DeWall (13:48): Yeah, absolutely. Well, diving into understand that of the layers, because I can see that in many different businesses that I’ve worked in that their’s success and the overextension or, and I’m not, maybe how I would look at it is like the kind of overconfidence that comes from success that we can do everything and then find themselves. Yeah. You know, from an employee perspective, feeling like we’re chasing a lot of things and we can’t do anything. Well, or to me as an employee, I feel like I can’t even deliver my best work because I have no idea what the focus is anymore. . Yeah.

Breakthrough Strategies Require New Focus on PrioritiesPatrick Thean (14:24): I think the biggest challenge. Yeah, I think the biggest challenge is that as leaders, we are not used to saying no to opportunities. So when we’re a small company startup and all that, we say yes to everything. But then we get to a certain point where the opportunities are too small for us to grow to the next level. So we actually have to pause, say no to some of these things and really decide and be very intentional about when we invest our resources. Which are the top things we should work on? So we call visual priorities. So we want you to really figure out how to decide and choose the right priorities. Our research tells us that this is why companies get it wrong or I should say, this is why companies have to get it right. The first thing we got to do is we have to focus.

And so focus means you’re gonna choose, you’re gonna choose three to five big things to focus on. That’s what focus means. The second thing is that we have to slow down a little bit and achieve clarity. Clarity means that, look, I know what I’m doing, but you don’t know what I’m doing. I’ve turned it in my head a thousand times. So in my brain it’s crystal clear, but why don’t you know what I’m talking about? Well that’s because you’re hearing it for the very first time. So as leaders, we have to understand that like for me, I’ve turned it over a thousand times. But to my company, I’ve communicated for the first time, that’s not really fair, right? That I’ve turned it over a thousand times and I tell it to you one time and I expect you to know exactly what I mean. No.

So clarity, really slow down and give people the gift of time as in helping them understand, give them time and help them to understand clearly what we’re trying to achieve. So focus, clarity, and then we have alignment. You have multiple teams now cross-functional because your company’s now bigger. So how do we make sure that we’re all aligned and get these few priorities done? And finally the fourth item is accountability. Now that we have agreed or we’re gonna focus on how clear it is and how we’re now aligned to get it done, we got to now be accountable to get things done. And when we don’t get those things done, we need to be brave enough to say, okay, I am sorry I still wouldn’t get it done, you know, on this particular date, I’m not on track because if you say that, the team can now come together and figure out a solution and make the right adjustment so you can get back on track.

Create a Culture Where it is Safe to Ask for HelpPatrick Thean (16:44): I think too many people are afraid to do that. Too many people are thinking, oh my God, I’m not on track here, but maybe if I can fix it in time, my boss won’t know. Well instead of doing that, why don’t we say I’m sorry I’m not on track. Who can help me brainstorm this so I can get back on track faster. I’ve got to tell you, the company culture has to accept this kind of behavior as well. Beause if you are in a company culture where you get smacked on the head all the time for, for, for having a problem, then obviously you’re not gonna bring the problem to the table, right? Cause your culture is telling you you can’t do that. The first thing you smack me on the head, I I’m, you smack the messenger. I’m not gonna give you bad news.

So I, I do think that what I’m saying sounds really cool. But what I’ve realized also is that oftentimes the company culture has to promote this kind of stuff. It’s easy for me to sit here and say, Hey, go ahead and make mistakes. But if you go out there and make mistakes and, and your CEO or your manager has a different attitude towards that, then I’m making your life more difficult, right? I’m not helping you. So I think your, your corporate culture, your work culture has to jive well with this kind of stuff.

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What Prevents People From Executing Breakthrough Strategies?Jenn DeWall (19:05): So you listed four areas of how we can get it right, how we can actually find those breakthroughs in our strategies, focus, clarity, alignment, and accountability. I wanna dive in a little bit more to each of them, but on the face of it, do you notice any one area that people tend to struggle with more? Or is it typically it’s all of them?

Patrick Thean (19:26): I would say that all companies are different and people struggle different things. So it’s not one area that’s more you know, you for example, I’m, I’m a pretty vulnerable guy. I don’t mind telling you that. I’ve got challenges. And I always believe that my job is to walk in there and you know, I’m not trying to be the smartest guy in the room. So that’s not my problem. I have other problems. Don’t, don’t worry, I have the problem , but, but vulnerability is not my problem. But for somebody else, you know, that might be a challenge. Some CEOs may say, Ooh, that feels icky. Why don’t I tell ’em all that? So I, I would say that it’s, it’s focus, clarity, alignment and accountability are four areas that I’ve, that most people will have a challenge in at least one or two of those.

Focus is About Learning to Say NoPatrick Thean (20:15): But let’s talk about focus. First. Focus I think is, is one area where it is hard to get right Because to me that just means a lot of people think that focus is where you say yes to, but usually for my client, they’ve already said yes to 10 things. So focus is really about saying no, it’s the reverse. It’s about saying no. It’s about saying, I got these 10 things that we restarted projects on and I got to shut seven of them off, or I got to shut six of them off. That’s the hard part is that I’ve, and by the way, it’s systemic. Cause I promise you people will say, well, let me at least get through this and I’ll prioritize later. No, cause you always see new opportunities. If you don’t start prioritizing now and understanding what is your top three or four. You are not gonna do that later either. So focus to me is at a tip of the iceberg. If you get focused correctly, then things begin to kind of flow out and and work for you.

Jenn DeWall (21:12): That makes sense. I’m thinking. That’s where it starts. And I love the reframe in the mindset of focuses about what you say no to. But maybe I’m speaking from an experience of being an employee and watching someone be like, but we can do it all. How do you help the CEOs that do see so much opportunity maybe is it quieting that like scarcity mindset that comes up that if we don’t do it, we’re gonna miss out? Or how do you help them actually say and say no? Because I can still see one being like, but I don’t wanna, sure I still wanna do this .

Patrick Thean (21:46): So I, I think that there’s three answers really. I think that most of us have a binary mindset, yes or no. And that’s normal. Most, most people I meet, most executives I meet, most CEOs I coach have that binary mindset. And even for myself as I look at my own problems, I have a binary mindset. It’s easy for the doctor to see the problem in the patient less easy for me to see the problem in myself. But there are three answers. And the third answer is kind of the juice here is yes, no and later. So I’m not saying no to certain things even though certain things deserve a hard no that’s correct. But there’s certain things that you may just wanna say later.

Breakthrough Strategy # 1: The 13-Week SprintPatrick Thean (22:27): This is why in our Rhythm process, we subscribe to a quarterly planning process. Create a breakthrough strategy one quarter at a time. So when we create a quarter a plan for the quarter, I call that a 13 week race. You got 13 weeks and a quarter. The only way to a great year, a four great quarters. And then the only way to have a four great quarters is to have one great one. And a quarter makes is made up of 13 weeks. So you got to go one great week after another great week and you string 13 great weeks together. So every quarter we wanna have the right discussions and have a plan of execution for that quarter. So what happens is around week four or five or six or seven, there’ll be new ideas and, and what a lot of people do incorrectly is they torpedo the current plan with the new idea. They go, wait a minute, this opportunity just happened. Let’s do it now. And I would say, no, let’s not do that. Let’s put it in the parking lot. Let’s execute this quarter.

Well and then when we come to the next’s quarterly planning cycle, let’s open up that parking lot. Let’s look at all the new ideas that got put in there and rank that against the other old ideas that we actually did not execute yet. Okay, now let’s do that and then choose the top three to five things that we wanna really focus on for this quarter. And I know it sounds boring, but every quarter just do that again and again and again. So you now have a place to put your ideas. And then you have a place to review your ideas against the old ones. Because sometimes people choose new ideas when actually they forgot about an old idea that was even more compelling. So getting to a rhythm of that allows you to free your brain up, execute on what you’ve already decided on, put things to this parking lot and review it every quarter as you plan and then choose the right things. So you always have the confidence that I’ve said yes, I’ve said no and I’ve said later, later goes into this bucket that I now consider with other ideas at the end of the the next 13 week cycle.

Jenn DeWall (24:29): Oh my gosh, I love that insight of how you can look at it, the 13 week sprint and even how you talked about the potential traps that can come up week seven or eight. There’s the shiny object. Yes, but next new idea and put it into that later. Yeah. And know that you can get there, but finish what you started. Maybe I’d say, and

Patrick Thean (24:47): By the way, one other trap since you mentioned what trap, one other trap that happens which is why I really care about a 13 week cycle sprint actually. And every week to me is important. But what happens if you don’t look at yourself on a weekly basis is I have this goal and I don’t know how to do it. So I didn’t touch it. And then suddenly a month went by and so it’s now my monthly review. I look, I go, oh crap, I haven’t made movement over here. So usually around week 5, 4, 5, 6, that’s when a goal that you had at the start of the corner, you suddenly wake up and go, oh crap, I haven’t done anything yet. Now unfortunately it’s a 13 week sprint, so you’ve just lost four or five weeks, you don’t have 30 weeks to do this anymore.

Patrick Thean (25:31): Now you have a more compressed time. So this is why pro tip here would be every single week, starting from week one, you wanna see how you’re doing according to your goals, against your goals for the quarter. And if you see anything that you don’t think is working, you wanna identify it in week one, week two, week three. Not wait till week 5, 6, 7, 8. Because usually that’s what happens is so many people wake up and go, oh my gosh, a month has gone by. Oh my gosh, a month and a half has gone by. Oh my gosh, half my quarters gone and I haven’t started yet. Right? That’s part of the problem too.

Breakthrough Strategy # 2: Gaining Clarity About Desired ResultsJenn DeWall (26:06): Oh my gosh, I love that insight. Okay, so we talked about focus, finding two to three things and sticking with it for your 13 week, week sprint, committing to it. Now we move into clarity. And what I really appreciate that you said earlier is that I might not have said it in this way or I want to communicate that. And so how do you set clarity or how do you make sure that what we set out to do is very clear for everyone that’s involved in the process? What insights can you share with us?

Patrick Thean (26:33): So you know, Stephen Covey, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. What does he say? He says first one of his seven habits is begin with the end in mind, right? Begin with the end in mind. And I subscribe to the fully. I think that lots of people don’t know how to begin with the end in mind. So you may say, Hey, let’s go to the trade show. Let’s go do this trade show. Okay great, let’s go. Well no, that’s not a goal. Let’s just go into a trade show. And so beginning with the end in mind means we’ll be to say something like, Hey, we’re gonna go to this trade show. We’re gonna meet a hundred people. And if the a hundred people wouldn’t take five meetings that are meaningful to us, right? So now you’re describing clarity. Now I’m creating a vision of what I expect.

I believe that most people don’t take the time to actually discuss what that goal really means. What it really looks like. You have to visualize it. If you can’t see it, you can’t do it. So when you see it, you have to be able to describe it now. And so we use a regular green process. Green is actually the goal. So you would say something like, Hey, we’re gonna go to this conference or this trade show and we wanna meet a hundred people and create five meetings. Okay? So that’s my green goal, that’s my goal. Okay? Now then the next step is I say tell me if I’m gonna spend money, let you go to this trade show. What is a minimum level of performance I should expect for my, the return on my money? And you may say, okay, well let, let’s say I at least come back with two meetings.

Would that be okay Patrick? Then we negotiate on that and I’ll say, okay, two is fine. Anything less than two is unacceptable and we agree on that. And by the way, anything less than two is unacceptable. It also means it’s failure. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna fire you, but you should just acknowledge that anything less than two meetings in this case is failure. Not good. You shouldn’t have to ask me later whether that was good, because it’s not good. So then between red and green is is yellow right in between. And then a stretch goal, those all our A players want stretch goals. A stretch goal that will make me Super-Duper happy is if you came back with 10 meetings instead of five. That’s just wonderful stretch goal. So now you’re set up for great clarity. You know what your goal is. Come back with five meetings.

Breakthrough Strategy # 3: Conversations Create ClarityPatrick Thean (28:38): You know that coming back with less than two meetings makes me unhappy and I feel like I wasted my money. And then if you wanted me to be super happy, come back with 10 meetings, right? That is really clear now and you can visualize it. So that’s our process of saying take the time, slow down, talk about what that looks like and then now we can talk about it. You can say, well Patrick, it is impossible for me to come back with 10 meetings. Okay, well why do you say that? And then you tell me and I’ll go, oh, maybe you are missing X, Y, or Z, right? So we can have this dialogue and suddenly your brain opens up and that’s where the breakthroughs happen. The breakthroughs happen in the discussions. It’s in the discussions where I think I have a block here, I don’t see how I can do ’em one in five or six or seven. And then we talk about it and go, oh my gosh, I just saw a way to get there. That is a breakthrough. So how you set your goal, how you discuss it for with clarity in mind really determines whether or not you’re gonna be able to get a breakthrough.

Jenn DeWall (29:41): Yeah, I really appreciate the parameters or the constraints that you put into place. Whether it’s this is, you know, green, this is our goal, this is super success over here, this is our red where we don’t wanna be. But then you actually are doing the work to describe fully what that looks like. Which I feel like

Breakthrough Strategy #4: The Gift of “Red”Patrick Thean (29:59): By the way I call, I call this, The Gift of Red . I call it a gift because if you’re in a meeting and you, you can see that you are performing at a place below that you can actually put your head up and say, hey this particular goal I’m working on right now, it’s red, I know it’s unacceptable performance so I need some help who can help me get it up beyond red. And one of my clients shared with me very recently, she said, Hey Patrick, this is amazing. You know, before we met you, we actually did not have a language to say words like failure or unacceptable. She said, in fact, I don’t think you’ve ever told anybody here that any level of performance is unacceptable. And I laughed and I said, but you thought it right?

She goes, yes, I’ve thought it, I’ve thought that this level’s unacceptable, but I’ve never had a language to share that in a way that that that isn’t demoralizing. Right? And she said, Patrick, you’re just giving me that gift. Like this is the goal. This is unacceptable. So I call that the gift of red because if you know that you’re, what I’ve known is, is this, nobody comes to work looking to fail, okay? Right? People don’t wake up in the morning turn to the significant other and say, Hey honey, I can’t wait to go to work and screw up and off my boss. Right? No, nobody wants that. So what happens is that if you are begin to do poorly, the gift of red happens where you can actually say, look, I’m not doing well. Help me, help me so that I can perform and not fail here and get above the unacceptable level. So people tend to self-manage themselves away from red. I call that the gift of red who works really well.

Breakthrough Strategy # 5: Aligning GoalsJenn DeWall (31:32): I love the gift of red. So now let’s talk about probably the next big challenge with a lot of strategies that alignment. How do you get different? I mean because I feel like from again, the chair that I sit in, you can easily see competing siloed or departments saying, well my goal and my goal. So how do you work with organizations? How do you actually get alignment around a

Patrick Thean (31:54): Strategy? So what’s really important is that the company at the very top level needs to have the top two priorities. And then we all in all the different departments need to align our work with that. Now we can have the trade off discussion. You know, we have to put on the head of the company to say, it’s not my goal or your goal, it’s the company being successful. Most life is getting very complicated. So most of these priorities today, they’re really enterprise-wide or I should say they’re cross-functional. It’s almost impossible now to get anything major done that isn’t cross-functional. So what I’ve found is that a lot of companies have to learn how to do that. A lot of people aren’t used to that. A lot of people are used to more of a command and control for me to get this done, I need these resources.

What I’m used to saying, well Jack over there has resources that Jack can help me and he’s not under my commanding control, but that’s okay. Jack can help me with that. So this is what we call cross-functional collaboration. In our process we make sure that each department shares their goals with each other. So you know, not just what your goals are, but what the other team goals are and then you know how to, how to help each other, right?

Breakthrough Strategy #6: Accountability is the Key to Any StrategyPatrick Thean (32:56): And then the last one as you know, is accountability. So accountability is we had a red, yellow, green process that we just discussed just now. So accountability is being accountable to are you going to hit the green, yes or no? And if you don’t think you are, let’s discuss it and make the adjustment. And to do that, sometimes it’s what I call a spicy discussion. You know, it’s a tough discussion, it makes you sweat, but then when you have it, you feel much better than the other party benefits as well. So you got your alignment and then you wanna be accountable to it and have that spicy discussion early when you see that something’s not working out and then you want to collaborate. So that’s, that’s how that all works together. The whole focus, clarity, alignment, and then accountability.

Jenn DeWall (33:41): I mean, what I loved, even from the, the alignment of what you just shared is having a conversation sitting down so people are aware of other organizations or departments’ goals just so you can understand how you could potentially collaborate or work better together. But in terms of the spicy conversations, I know I feel like it almost is important to follow your process because if you do the focus, the clarity of understanding what those expectations look like, then it almost de personalizes it. So it maybe isn’t as spicy. At least that’s how I see this working is that it could be a much more productive conversation.

Patrick Thean (34:15): Yes. All those things help you so that you can have that spicy composition. Cause it’s hard, right? Like I’m afraid to have that conversation because I’m gonna hurt somebody’s feelings. Well yes. But but wouldn’t it be better to help the person succeed? Yeah. Wouldn’t that person be more grateful if you helped him or her succeed? And to do that, oftentimes, unfortunately it takes a spicy conversation. It takes the, hey I this isn’t working and, and by the way, we’re wasting time here so let’s talk about it, right? Let’s talk about it. So that’s why I call those spicy conversations cause it’s hard. It makes you kind of sweat and you don’t really wanna have it. But then it’s like, you know, actually this term came from meeting one of my favorite foods in Singapore called [inaudible], which is a very spicy dish. You kind of eat it, you drink more water, you eat it again, you drink.

Patrick Thean (35:04): I don’t know why it’s so spicy, but you keep eating it because it tastes so good. You drink water, you wipe the sweat, you continue doing that. These conversations are the same thing. It’s like I don’t really wanna have this conversation with you because I don’t wanna hurt your feelings. So let’s try and say in a way that doesn’t hurt her feelings. Okay. But once I’ve done that, it’s like, oh it wasn’t so bad after all, I can wipe, I sweat away, drink some water and let’s go again. So that’s why I call them spicy conversations cause it’s spicy, but it’s so good after that.

Where to Find More from Patrick TheanJenn DeWall (35:32): I love that. Hey, embrace the spicy conversations. Thank you so much Patrick for all of your insights. Whether it’s the four areas that we can focus on to actually find and create those breakthroughs. I feel like you dropped a lot of different considerations and I just wanna say thank you so much and thanks for encouraging a vulnerability b open communication and to even have the spicy conversations because you’re right, so many organizations fail, but they have so many opportunities to get it right. And thank you for coming on the show to help them get it right. And I have to ask in closing, how can they get in touch with you? How can they find out more about what you do and how you work and how you operate or buy your books? How can they get in touch with you?

Patrick Thean (36:11): Yes. So you can definitely buy my book on amazon.com. Yes. The Rhythm: How to Achieve Breakthrough Execution and Accelerate Growth, the book it’s Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller. But it come to my website PatrickThean.com and scroll down and take the organizational effectiveness test. It’s a free test for you or free assessment for you. They can take and check and see, you know, what are things that you can improve on. So thank you very much again for having me on your show. I, I appreciate it and a wonderful time today.

Jenn DeWall (36:39): Yes, thank you so much Patrick. I loved our conversation and good luck to everyone out there on their strategies. Hook up with Patrick, head on over to PatrickThean.com. There you can find out more. Thank you so much again, Patrick. Until next time, hopefully we can have you back.

Patrick Thean (36:53): Thank you.

Jenn DeWall (36:54): Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of a Leadership Habit podcast. If you want to learn more about Patrick or if you want to take that complimentary organizational assessment that he offered, you can head on over to PatrickThean.com. It’s Patrick— p a t r i c k t h e a n dot com. There you can find more about their systems speaking purchases, and books, and then take that organizational assessment. And of course, if you enjoyed this podcast or know someone that could really benefit from hearing these areas to focus on to get great breakthroughs, share this with them.

And don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming platform. And finally, if at Crestcom can help you in any way develop your leaders so you can achieve greater results and retention, reduce turnover, improve engagement in workplace happiness, head on over to Crestcom.com. We would love to talk with you. And there, you can also find complimentary resources such as white papers and eBooks, and you can also find out about our complimentary monthly webinar. Until next time, have a great day everyone.

The post How to Create a Breakthrough Strategy with CEO Coach and Author, Patrick Thean appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Moral Courage in Leadership with Jon MertzHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I got to sit down with a very special guest. His name is Jon Mertz, and we’re going to talk about the importance of moral courage in leadership. He’s well known in his area of research, and I’m just excited to bring him to you. Jon is a speaker, he’s a collaborative strategist, a thought entrepreneur, a professor, and a researcher of moral courage. You’ll learn a little bit more about that on today’s podcast.

His work examines the tension-filled intersections of profit and purpose, business and society, and stability and change using a model of moral courage to guide thinking, decision making, and action. Leaders of today and tomorrow can engage with challenge, face change, resolve conflict, and activate the next era of business ethics, impact and purpose. I hope you enjoyed Jon and I’s conversation as we talk about moral courage, which is, I believe, an essential characteristic, a mindset and attitude or way of being that all of us can learn and will likely need throughout the next phase of our careers. Enjoy the conversation.

Meet Jon Mertz, Researcher, Speaker and Thought EntrepreneurJenn DeWall (01:31): Jon Mertz, who I would like to introduce you to, the audience. I am so excited to have you here. For those that are active listeners to The Leadership Habit, this is the first time that I’ve ever actually had family on the show. We have Jon Mertz joining us, and this is my husband’s uncle, but he is a, you are just a dominant perspective in the leadership space, so I love that I married into getting to know you, and I love that you’re gonna be joining us today on the podcast to talk about moral courage. But Jon, for those that may not know you the way that I do, would you go ahead and introduce yourself to The Leadership Habit audience?

Jon Mertz (02:16): Sure. First of all, thanks so much for inviting me to join your podcast. I’m really excited to have the conversation here today. Yeah, so my background, I kind of look at my life in three chapters, I guess, at this point. So the first chapter, I was involved in politics. I worked in Washington, DC, for about eight years for a senator for my home state in South Dakota, and after two administrations decided that that wasn’t the career path I wanted to remain on. So went back to school and got my MBA from the McCombs School of Business at the University of Texas. And after graduating from there, my second chapter kind of unfolded, which was about 25 years in tech technology, both startups and large enterprise companies leading marketing and business development initiatives for them. My last company was a healthcare software startup, that I spent a little over 10 years leading the marketing strategy and other initiatives for the company. Chapter three started by moving to Santa Fe and also starting a doctorate program through Creighton University, which I just completed.

Jenn DeWall (03:31): Congratulations.

Jon Mertz (03:32): Yeah, I successfully defended my dissertation. And I’m also teaching two leadership development classes at the University of New Mexico Anderson School for Management. One is an undergrad class, and new this year, I’m teaching an executive MBA class as well. So that’s kind of my three chapters as they currently stand. I’m still in the third chapter!

Jenn DeWall (03:55): I mean, I love it, and I’m excited to see how the third chapter unfolds. You know, you’ve been able to watch leadership from the sidelines in different industries, right? Politics, then going into tech and looking at it through that lens, anything that you feel like you noticed was a successful tried and true leadership principle as you walked and observed, I guess, your time throughout those three chapters?

Tried and True Leadership Principles Everyone Should KnowJon Mertz (04:23): Yeah, I mean, when last in DC, one thing that was ingrained in the US , or during my time in different roles, there was don’t do anything that you wouldn’t want your mom to read about in the Washington Post the next day.. And I think that’s a good rule of thumb from an ethical perspective. So it keeps you on the right path as far as when people are watching you, but also when people aren’t watching you make sure you’re trying to make the best decisions and choices possible.

Jon Mertz (04:53): I think the other element, you know, it’s kind of funny when I went into business, and the initial reaction before I got my MBA was, you know, you spent eight years in government when you know about business. But the reality is that process orientation and the collaboration through government applies extremely well to business. Whether you’re large or small, you’ve gotta work with diverse groups if you wanna move things forward in a successful way to achieve the outcomes that, that that you’re desired as a business or as a government entity. So collaboration, consensus building, I think is a key leadership skill that’s always been a part of my life, I guess, as well.

What Inspired You to Explore the Topic of Moral Courage?Jenn DeWall (05:34): Yeah. And I feel like learning that at a younger age, in the form of government, is probably one of the bigger ways for anyone to learn that. How do you unite opposing views or listen and stop and slow down to consider a different perspective? Jon, I’m excited to talk about the dissertation that you recently defended on the topic of moral courage! Out of curiosity, what inspired you to pursue that topic for your research?

Jon Mertz (06:02): Yeah, it, it kind of evolved, you know, through the program, I guess, and so through some of the writing, I guess I’ve done through the years as well, I was very intrigued, well, intrigued first of all, I guess with kind of the generational shift that was happening back well, a while ago now. But as millennials were beginning to enter the workforce, there was a lot of negative articles about that generation. A.

And when I was vice president of marketing for this healthcare startup, you know, I was hiring millennials, and I wasn’t seeing what all the articles were saying, and I seemed like everybody was being more negative than usual as a younger generation was coming into the workplace. And what I saw was kind of the opposite, was not only the diligence in work but also the attitude that it’s more than just profit or making money. There’s a higher degree of purpose embedded in their lives and in their work. And I found that encouraging.

So that kind of kicked it off. And then it evolved also to looking at how CEO activism and employee activism was taking root where businesses and employees were, you know, raising their voices to try to correct or prevent issues from harming stakeholders, whether that be employees, customers, or others. And I thought that was also an encouraging sign. So that kind of, you know, evolved into looking at stakeholder capitalism and, in my opinion, social enterprises are kind of the best representation of stakeholder capitalism.

I mean, they’re for-profit entities that have an embedded purpose, whether it’s social or environmental, as part of their business model, so companies like Patagonia or Toms and others, you know, those two are bigger name ones that people recognize. But, you know, so that kind of centered my research and then adding had the, had this interest in virtues and how virtues played a role within leadership. So adding the moral courage element just seemed to make a lot of sense, or it was kind of a good interdisciplinary look that I wanted to, wanted to explore.

What Does it Mean to Have Moral Courage?Jenn DeWall (08:15): I love that. And I feel like even just virtues, like you really probably see that in action probably in the earlier part of your career in government, of how we make decisions based on our values or obviously the impact to our stakeholders or those that elected us. So let’s, you know, let’s level set. I love the inspiration. We, and I also love that you drew some inspiration around that shift that millennials brought into the workplace towards a little bit more purpose-driven work and how we can use that. But let’s look at, let’s start with the basics of your dissertation. How do you define moral courage? What is moral courage? What does it mean to have moral courage?

Jon Mertz (08:53): Yeah, there’s, you know, various academic elements to it, but my research kind of validated or made it more practical, but it really is looking at when there’s impending values or emotions involved in the decision but being willing to act on those with a connection to what the outcome is, a compassionate connection to that and being willing to engage and make those tough decisions. And it really became kind of more than that, I guess, through the research and that if you’re gonna do it right, you have to be unafraid to embrace different perspectives and, and experiences especially those that may be impacted by the decision that you’re about to make. So I think, you know, kind of the key words, I guess are the willingness to make those tough choices. But it’s embracing those tensions around the, you know, the virtues or the emotions that are part of that decision.

Jenn DeWall (09:52): Yeah. Well, and that’s tough, right? Talking about how do we make decisions or how do we amplify our voice, especially if it’s not the loudest voice in the room, or the most popular perspective. Where do you see either leaders, where do you see leaders struggle with moral courage? Are there any particular areas that you notice that they tend to exhibit more or less moral courage?

Moral Courage and Stakeholder CapitalismJon Mertz (10:14): Yeah, I mean, the lines I looked at was mostly, I guess, through stakeholder capitalism. So you know, the social enterprise leaders that I interviewed, they definitely exemplify using moral courage almost every day as far as embracing the tensions of profit and purpose and finding, you know, the right path forward or, you know, the business and societal issues that need to be addressed. I think one of the things that maybe to look ahead a little bit more that will be more interesting of how moral courage is exhibited, it’ll be today we read articles about bold capitalism or pushback against environmental, social and governance or ESG (Environmental, Social, Governance) type issues. So I think more than ever business leaders are gonna need to find that moral courage to be able to speak up and, and discuss why they’re focusing on E S G or why they’re focusing on stakeholder capitalism and not get pushback by shallow and narrow arguments of just calling something “woke”.

Jenn DeWall (11:18): Yeah. Oh my gosh. And I feel like that’s out there. It’s such an easy thing. What, but let’s talk about the consequence. What if they don’t, right? What if they’re like, I’m still nervous, I’m still afraid. I don’t want to go against this popular view or the view of this loud voice. What do you think are potential consequences that organizations or business leaders might face if they don’t lean into this moral courage?

What are the Consequences of Not Leaning into Moral Courage?Jon Mertz (11:42): Yeah, it’s more of, you know, looking at our society and the outcomes there. So if business leaders don’t stand up, and political leaders too, you know, there’s gotta, you know, some a, it’s a mix, it’s a community effort. But if, you know, the things that are happening, our world are real, you know, whether it’s the, you know, the climate shifts or, you know, taking care of our environment, I mean, it never used to be that political of an issue, you know, when the National Park system started and things of that nature, you know, taking care of the planet that we live on seems like it should be a no-brainer. But in today’s world, there’s pushback on that. So, you know, it’s really looking at that, that societal benefit. I mean, it’s interesting because, you know, one of the reasons I’d like, you know, more focus on virtues is it’s more than just about yourself.

So values, you know, we, we kind of, you know, unfortunately, kind of mixed definitions of values and virtues, but values really are what’s important to me, you know, what’s important to an individual. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but we kind of become dogmatic in that, and that my values are right and yours are wrong kind of a thing. And that’s not healthy. Whereas virtues are more about, you know, nature or higher self, higher purpose. So it’s about us. It’s not about, you know, an individual. So I think, you know, kind of rambling off here a little bit, but I guess the relationship is that, you know, to make these decisions that impact our society, they do have moral implications and business leaders need to embrace that and understand that and be able, willing to stand up for those underpinnings of capitalism.

You know, not to get off too much off track, but you know, Adam Smith is really misunderstood. In that he wrote two books and one of ’em, the first one was The Theory of Moral Sentiments. And there’s a big moral philosophy that underpins an economic system. And we need to bring that more front and center into our business conversations and being able to promote more stand up for these issues that are important not only just for the business, but also for our society.

What Does It Look Like When Organizations Lead With Purpose?Jenn DeWall (13:53): Okay. I love this. And I was gonna say, like, what would it look like if you did bring that to the forefront? What would that look like if we were able to make that shift in organizations?

Jon Mertz (14:04): Well, leading with purpose would be the first place. So the social enterprise leaders that I interviewed, they definitely lead with purpose first. And they understand, obviously the role of profit and every business leader does. And it’s important because that’s what funds and salaries and training and everything else, right? But, you know, purpose is first. And without with all of the leaders I interviewed, they really led with that. And so it is that purpose-first mentality. You know, one case, just to tell one story from one of the interviewees he, this individual came in to a situation where the company was never profitable.

But previous CEOs had focused primarily on the financial and economic side of the business and a little bit, bit less on the purpose. And so, as he took over in that role, he focused on the purpose first throughout working with employees, their customer base, other stakeholders and partners. And over time the company became possible for the first time. So it just kind of exemplifies that, the power of purpose that, you know, if you’re willing to make those tough choices, siding more on purpose than profit, that the profit will come and probably the longevity of your organization will too. Plus, you’ll probably have more engaged customers and engaged employees and other stakeholders to carry your business forward. Beyond that point as well.

Stakeholder Capitalism and the Next Generation of LeadersJenn DeWall (15:29): I, you know, I love, I love that perspective because even 20 years ago, I don’t think there was a high emphasis on purpose. It was kind of, you know, do the job, help the company do what’s right for the company. It’s not about the impact that has happened. What do you think has caused maybe this shift where, I mean, and not to say that you’ve studied this, but in terms of millennials curiosity, why do you think that we have shifted into this place of wanting purpose? Is it because we want to create better communities and we wanna be more connected? Is it because of watching the recession and noticing that there’s a shift in loyalty to what companies are that now we want them to mean more? From your perspective and the work that you’ve seen and those that you’ve interfaced with, what do you think drew this interest in this, this new change in virtue? I guess because it’s not a value of like thinking about how organizations actually commit to a purpose of serving.

Jon Mertz (16:24): Yeah, I think, you know, it’s Millennials and Gen Z both I think are embracing both those traits. You know, I think, you know, some, some of the things I’ve read, I guess that, you know, it’s definitely, you know, they’ve seen their parents go through these challenges, right? You know, from nine 11 to the technology shifts to companies not being as loyal to their employees that they have in the past and, and obviously, now vice versa. So there’s more movement I guess, but I think there’s a greater, there’s just a greater awareness, I guess, that there’s more to life than just the pursuit of, of money. Obviously that, you know, not belittling that cause it’s important to yeah, provide for your family and, and your life and, and those types of things. And you need to get to a point, I guess, where you can do that.

But then, but there’s a balance. And so I think that’s the interesting thing. You know, even just with social enterprise leaders, right? It’s more about balance. It’s about, it’s not an either-or between profit and purpose or business and society or change in stability. It’s a, it’s really looking at it from a duality perspective in the sense that it’s an and so looking at both at the same time and then trying to figure out the best path forward. And so I think the younger generations are doing the same thing, right? They need to make money on the one hand, but they also want to have a better life beyond just that. So it’s taking both of those and figuring out the and path, you know, how can they achieve that you know, happy balance, I guess between making a decent living but also having a decent life. And that’s a, sorry, one more thing I guess maybe on that.,

Jenn DeWall (18:06): I love it. Keep going. ,

The Virtue of Living Well and Doing WellJon Mertz (18:09): What I love about kind of the virtue, you know, aspect of it, it’s about living well and doing well, and that’s the kind of balance I see this those two younger generations really right. Embrace, you know, I think for, for me, you know, the older generation, you know, I probably, you know, didn’t have that balance younger in my life. But I think, you know, unfortunately, maybe as we, we’ve gotten older, we realize that, that the value of having living well and doing well is part of our life. And credit to Gen Z and Millennials, you know, they are mu realizing that much earlier in their career than I did.

Jenn DeWall (18:49): Yeah. Well, and I feel like part of the reason that we realized it is just because we were almost forced to, the stability just wasn’t there in the same way that it maybe was for your generation. That’s one speculation, but yes, I, I mean, I, I should have also included Gen Z, but I, I love this shift because I just led a class for Crestcom two days ago, two days ago, and we were talking about even choosing who to work for. How do you choose who to work for? Because the majority of people in the class, and I know that I myself, have taken a pay cut to work for an organization that I better aligned with its purpose and passion and mission. And I know that I’m not alone. I am not, I am one of many that are willing to make these concessions.

Like, of course I need to make a living wage to pay off my student loan debt, wish we didn’t have it. But I also want to make sure that I’m working for a company that I align with their values. And I think organizations, I think for some people, that’s probably a head-scratching moment because we still may not understand why some people would be willing to trade off an extra percentage of money if they have the ability to do that, just to align with someone with purpose. But I do feel like your generation, we just, times were just different in like, the times were different that we were raised in. I don’t, because I feel like, what if I grew up maybe 20 years before I could see my dad’s pension? I could see, and I can understand the value of why you would stay, because you get that. I just never even had that potential offering. And the companies that even offer that today are very few and far between. I mean, I guess I could probably rattle off a few that even might have pensions anymore. But do you, like, do you feel like that’s true? I do think that Baby Boomers, Gen Xers might have chosen differently, but the world was just a different place.

Jon Mertz (20:39): Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, there’s always gonna be, you know, obviously change you know, as much as some may wanna keep things the same, you know, it’s very challenging to, to to realize that, I guess, or achieve that in any sense. So I think it’s. Hopefully, there’s a great awareness now just of how to embrace the change in a more positive way beyond just, you know, a self-interested way by looking at that bigger benefit of, for society. You know, it’s kinda interesting. I don’t know, in my view, I guess that you know, I’m not a generational expert per se, but you know, if you go back to, you know, even the sitcoms of the fifties and the sixties, right? It was, you know, coming home at five o’clock, having dinner and spending time with the family, you know, that kind of thing.

And you know, during my generation, and yours as well, probably that, you know, it wasn’t eight to five, it was, you know, more like seven to seven Yeah. On a good day, right? And I think, you know, in some ways we’re kind of returning back to that balance, I guess maybe of, of what was experienced in the fifties. I’m not, I’m not definitely, you know, not looking to turn back the clock at all, but just from a pure looking at a balance perspective and how to keep that not only about what you need to provide for yourself and your family, but then also what you need to give back to your community as well.

Jenn DeWall (22:05): Yeah, no, and I love, and it’s turning back the clock in the sense of looking at how we can make different choices to support the communities that we live in, to show up for the families and the people that we care about in our lives. Because I think we did get a little out of whack where we weren’t paying attention to those things that are really important for a healthy society, for a happy family.

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How Can Leaders Embrace Moral Courage?Jenn DeWall (23:32): Jon. Okay. So I have to ask, how do you think if you’re a leader that’s sitting there and maybe, you know, it’s a particular organizational challenge or a business de decision that needs to be made, what would be the starting point to even start to flex the muscle of moral courage? How do we develop that?

Jon Mertz (23:52): Yeah, again, for my research, it really begins with that sense of mission of the organization. So if they’ve spent the time to really define what that mission is, then center the decision-making process from there. And so if you don’t have that well defined and well communicated within the organization, you’re gonna start off from a, with a weak foundation. So that, that’s the, the, the starting point. And then I think it’s, you know, the really the next step then is really to kind of enhance our, our moral senses. And the way a lot of the leaders do that is by running to the edges. And by that means embracing perspectives and experiences that are different from yours and not being afraid to do that, you know, oftentimes we

Jenn DeWall (24:40): So by running to the edges. So is that just saying, like running to one side of like, who might have a counterpoint or how do you define running to the edges? Just the opposite sides of views that you have?

Jon Mertz (24:52): Exactly. Yeah. It’s kind of that edge perspective, I guess if you will. So it’s not the, you know, the, you know, the common ones that, you know, people would normally relate to. You know, one of the people I interviewed talked about you know, the words they used were a relevant colleague. What they meant by that was if somebody that’s impacted by the decision is not involved in the decision-making process, then the process is broken, go get them and bring them into the process. And so that’s part of the edge perspective is that we have to think about, you know, who’s going to be impacted by the outcome, you know and not just, you know, what we know but really seeking out what we may not know and embrace and really going out and talking to those individuals, understanding their story understanding the potential impact, and then bringing that in as part of the decision-making process.

So, you know, we have more, you know, heightened moral senses, but hopefully a, a more enlightened view than of the, again, talking about that compassionate connection to the outcomes. At least then we can begin to balance and understand those outcomes of our decisions. And so that’s really kind of the next step then is just, you know, we all know scenario planning, right? Think thinking through the different options and how things could unfold. But this is adding a moral lens to it and looking at the more outcomes of the different options and the different scenarios. And then, you know, like in, you know, most would do then is then looking at holding those differing outcomes, differing perspectives, imbalance at the same time, and then trying to find the common ground or the best path forward, and then being willing to make that choice in moving that decision forward. But in all cases, even after that choice is made, as new information becomes available again, they’re unafraid to make adjustments to that choice and, and based on the new information that’s becoming available. So being adaptive is a key part of the, there’s just the decision making process centered in moral courage. All that come comes into play.

Are There Difficult Tradeoffs When Leaders Embrace Moral Courage?Jenn DeWall (27:08): Everything that you’ve said is relevant to how we need to show up for the future of work. Even in terms of, I love how you talked about scenario planning, because historically it might have been, here’s the scenario, make more money , and that would just be it. It’s like, what scenario makes more money? But in today’s world, if we’re applying moral courage, would that be, maybe we make less money, but we serve this community in a different way. We preserve and protect our, you know, workforce and not making a layoff or not making an increase here. Tell me an example of how scenarios might look a little bit different. I don’t know if you know any trade offs from your research that people have been making.

Jon Mertz (27:48): Yeah, there wasn’t any specific, I guess, that we dive into, but it is about, you know, all, you know, part of it, what a social enterprise leader does is embrace change, right? They’re through their business, and they’re trying to drive some sys systematic change, whether it’s environmental, you know, you know, the product that they offer helps a population that’s underserved or whatever the case may be. So I think, you know it’s looking at that environmental or societal impact of those decisions because it’s a part of their business model. And so yeah, it may mean taking whatever, a percent less in profit or whatever, but if it’s returning 10% more in inter in positive environmental impact, then that’s worth the trade-off. You know, there’s larger companies that are, you know, aren’t necessarily social enterprises, but have a corporate social responsibility part of it. You know, as they focus more on some of the environmental or green packagings or focusing on their manufacturing processes in a more environmentally sensitive way, there actually are realizing a financial result, a positive one by taking those actions. And so, you know, we can learn both from the social enterprise leaders that are have that embedded as part of their business. But we also can learn from some of the larger corporations that are receiving an economic benefit by adopting more environmentally friendly practices as well.

The Importance of Compassionate ConnectionJenn DeWall (29:21): Right. Well, and I feel like more and more people will vote with that. They’ll vote using their money towards the organizations that are willing to support sustainability or to give back. Okay. I want to go back to compassionate connection. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does compassionate connection mean? ?

Jon Mertz (29:40): Well, it really goes to understanding the outcome, you know, and the, and who it’s impacting, who it’s affecting. Again, one of the people I interviewed talked about open heart protected, and what they meant by that was, again, kind of that edge perspective type of thing that we’ve gotta be open to understanding those different perspectives and different experiences and what, who’s gonna be impacted by the outcomes of whatever decision that we make. And so that’s the open heart part of it, the protective part was not becoming self-defensive in that interaction which is so key. So it’s, part of it is honoring the current system that’s in place, but also with an eye towards how can we change it or evolve it to have a more positive impact. So I love that, you know, kind of phrasing, I guess, of open heart protected. Because I think that kind of exemplifies, I guess that compassionate connection. So it’s that openness, willingness to embrace different differing perspectives, honoring the current system with an eye toward how can we build capacity to change it to be better in the future.

Jenn DeWall (30:52): I like the notion that you make towards honoring the current system because I think it, it pays respect for the business decisions, the choices, the methodologies of how people got to where they were. The world was different back then. There are different considerations now. And so it’s not about tearing that completely down or like maybe heavily criticizing and scrutinizing that it’s respecting what it was, what it was designed to do, and maybe saying, Hey, we can do something different. What do you, like, if you could go out and I guess, paint the world and give everyone moral courage, what would your world look like? What would the world look like if we made decisions with a stronger moral courage? Is it like, you know, coming at that local perspective, is it the global, like, would we be waving and like helping each other on the streets? What would that look like?

What Would the World Look Like if All Decisions Were Made with Moral CourageJon Mertz (31:45): Yeah I’ve got two answers I guess for it. But one would look like we would get out of our self painted in corners of, of of how we view the world or, or putting ourselves in the corner that everybody looks like us or talks like us and has same similar experiences. So it’d be people getting outta their corners and, and getting out into the world and, and actively engaging and asking questions. One of the key phrases I heard over and over again was, tell me more. That was almost a, not just a question, it was almost like a mission. So it’s really that seeking that, that understanding. You know, my other kind of cheeky answer would be that, you know, growing up on a farm in South Dakota, when a neighbor needed help, everybody showed up.

Jon Mertz (32:30): You know, I remember one of our neighbors his wife was having cancer and was struggling through that. The family was, and you know six or eight farmers showed up, up and harvested all their crops in one day. And so, you know, it’s that empathy, it’s that compassionate connection to somebody that’s, you know, could look like us, but also somebody that doesn’t look like us and jumping in and willing to help and try to improve someone else’s life in the best way that we can and are capable of within either what we do individually or, or what we do as a business.

Jenn DeWall (33:04): Well, I love that example because I do feel like we missed that to some extent. We’re we’re, do you think it’s just because we have so much going on that we, for a method of self-protection, that we’re just, you know, heads down thinking about only how things impact us? How do you think we got here where maybe we’re not doing some of the things that we used to do?

Leverage the Power of “Tell Me More”Jon Mertz (33:25): Yeah, I think, again, it goes back, I think to a lot what I heard is that just really being unafraid to get involved in groups that are different than us. And, you know, we’ve gotta get out of our social media channels, because all they’re just designed to heighten and keep us in our separate corners, if you will, and, and bicker back and forth. But when you get out into the real community and engage with real people, you know, that kind of dissipates. And by asking that question, tell me more, and leaning into their, you know, really developing an understanding of their story and more important than that, then if you are making a decision that’s gonna impact them and their story, you know, really understanding that rather than thinking you understand it. I mean, imagining you understanding it and actually hearing it and developing that narrative is very different. So getting out and engaging with those different than us is so critical to enhancing our moral courage capacity.

Jenn DeWall (34:24): I love that! Cl that’s a perfect place to end and like wrap as a closing call to action. Get out there and seek to build connections with those that are different. Seek to understand or learn. And then of course, I love that recommendation, you know, just leveraging the power of those three words. Tell me more, Jon, how could our audience get in touch with you? I mean, I know how to get in touch with you, I know where you live but how could our audience get in touch with you? You’re, I know that you, you know, down the line you’re gonna have potentially different offerings that you’ll have, but how can they get in touch with you if they wanted to have a greater conversation and moral courage?

Where to Find More from Jon MertzJon Mertz (35:00): Yeah, probably the best way is my personal website, which is JonMertz.com. You know, I post, you know, not that often, but a little bit on LinkedIn, some thoughts on current events or news. So that would be following me on LinkedIn. We’d probably be a second way to do that as well. Sure. On Twitter, although not as much, it’s gotten a little messy here lately, so not on it as as much as I used to be, but anyway, hopefully, they’ll get it in better shape than what it is today, in my opinion. .

Jenn DeWall (35:36): Well, Jon, thank you so much. Honestly, really thank you for coming on the show. I know we’ve been talking about this for a while and I think, you know, moral courage is an important topic that all of us need to lean into, and I love the utopic future of all of us coming together again. So thank you for inspiring that call to action for our listeners because it’s truly what leadership is. It’s building the communities that we live in and treating people like our neighbors and being kind. And so I just appreciate you sharing your message with our audience today. Thank you for coming by.

Jon Mertz (36:06): Well, thank you, Jenn. Appreciate you hosting conversations like this with different people and and at all to helps make the world a little better as well.

Jenn DeWall (36:14): Thank you so much for listening to you this week’s episode with Jon Mertz. I love the concept of moral courage and just even thinking through ways that I might be able to make greater impact. I hope that you are inspired too. And if you want to learn a little bit more about Jon and Jon’s work, you can of course head on over to his website. JonMertz.com, or you can connect with them on LinkedIn. You can reach out to ’em, get to know more about his research. Congratulations, Jon, too, on your recent accomplishment of your E D D. I’m so proud of you.

And hey, thank you so much for listening everyone. If we can serve you in any way with your leadership development needs, head on over to Crestcom.com, we can offer our complimentary leadership skills workshop there. You can find out about our monthly complimentary webinars, and of course, download our white papers and free eBooks. Until next time, have a great day everyone.

The post The Need for Moral Courage in Leadership with Thought Entrepreneur, Jon Mertz appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Latino Leadership in the Multicultural Future with Diversity and Inclusivity Pioneer, Dr. Juana BordasHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Dr. Juana Bordas to talk about the power of Latino leadership. We are the multicultural future! That is the focus of the podcast today, understanding that, from the perspective of Juana Bordas, who is the author of Salsa, Soul, and Spirit: Leadership for a Multicultural Age and The Power of Latino Leadership: ¡Ahora! Both books received the International Latino Book Award for her breakthrough work in the multicultural leadership field.

Her new edition of The Power of Latino Leadership: ¡Ahora! Is being released March 28th and can be ordered on Amazon. But let me tell you a little bit more about Juana. Juana served as an advisor to Harvard’s Hispanic Journal, the Kellogg National Fellows as trustee of Greenleaf Center for Servant Leadership and International Leadership Association, the ILA. She was the first Latino to receive ILA’s Lifetime Achievement Award. And as a founder and Executive Director for Colorado’s Mi Casa Resource Center, founding president of the National Hispanic Leadership Institute and the Circle of Latina Leadership, she was commended by Latina Style magazine for creating a nation of Latina leaders. I hope you enjoy our conversation as we talk about the power of Latino leadership.

Meet Dr. Juana Bordas, President of Mestiza Leadership InternationalJenn DeWall (01:31): Happy International Women’s Day! I am so excited to be joined today on the podcast to talk about the power of Latino leadership with you, the beautiful Dr. Juana Bordas, and I’ll call you Juana, thank you so much for coming on The Leadership Habit today, and especially to share your insights and your experience on this important topic. I feel so lucky. I said to you earlier, and of course our audience just heard your reputation is profound. So many awards, so many different,I guess just recommendations and accolades. And I just feel lucky to have you on the show today. So thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Juana Bordas (02:11): Thank you for having me and for having a strong and powerful woman at the helm of this podcast. You know, we’re gonna do this.

Jenn DeWall (02:19): Yes, we are. Well, let’s go ahead. They heard a little bit about you through that opening introduction bumper, but could you go ahead and introduce yourself and tell our audience a little bit more about who you are, how you came to be, what you focus on, and what you’re passionate about, anything you feel to share.

Dr. Juana Bordas (02:34): Oh, great. Well, I am an immigrant. I came to this country when I was a little girl, three years old. And my family immigrated from Nicaragua. There had been a tsunami that had really wiped out the coast where my family was from. And so they had this vision and this dream. Now I come from a large family of eight. So my dad and my two older sisters came to the United States and worked and saved money to bring their family to America. And that’s my first boat. I’m in the hull of a banana boat, believe it or not, crossing the Gulf of Mexico. And I remember my brother asking me if I wanted a banana . So we must have been eating a lot of bananas. There was just a series of bunk beds in the bottom of the, of the boat. But here’s the thing, you know, I think when we look at my experience as an immigrant, we can look across not only our own country and our history as an immigrant nation, but the incredible contributions that immigrants have made to America.

Dr. Juana Bordas (03:34): For example, all four of my brothers served in the military and you know, my sister served in the waves in World War II, so out of the eight of us, five were in the military, and I served in the USP score in Chile. So, I mean, when you look at immigrants, we’re just here to find opportunity to get a better life. And my parents sacrificed everything so I could become an educated woman. So when people ask me why I’m so driven, I’m like, well, my family poured everything into me so I could become the one that opened the door for others in our family to become educated. And we all are. My three daughters have advanced degrees now. One’s a teacher, one’s a professor, and one’s a lawyer. And so I love to tell my story just because today there’s some tension around immigration. And yet, well, we have to look at the history of our great country and what happened here.

Jenn DeWall (04:27): Oh my gosh. Juana! You came to America in the hull of a boat

Dr. Juana Bordas (04:32): The hull of a banana boat! Yeah, they had a room in the back with bunk beds. Oh my. And that’s where my mother and five of her children were. And you know, I do a lot of work with people about, about their purpose. And because I was the youngest daughter and because I had these parents, like my mother went to the, to the priest at the Catholic church, and she sat in her humble way, I can cook, I can clean, I can take care of children. But then she said, give me a job because I came here to educate my children so they could have a better life. And of course, who’s gonna refuse a selfless soul like that? So when you look at your parents, and all of us know that our parents and those that came before us, that we stand on their shoulders. When you look at what they sacrificed, I have a deep desire to give back and, and to make sure other people have the same opportunities I had.

Jenn DeWall (05:22): Oh my gosh. And Juana, like you, I feel that. And every part of my body, just your desire to take what your parents gave you to pour everything into it. And today we’re gonna be talking about, you know, the power of Latino leadership and advancing that understanding that. And I will tell you that as, as our audience might know, like I am not Latina, so I’m going to be learning so much from you, Juana, and I am so excited to just have you here to talk about this and to share your story and to give highlights, but also, gosh, tap into that passion that you have! Because we all could use a little bit, little bit more Juana in our days. Lemme just tell you!

Dr. Juana Bordas (05:59): Oh, that’s very kind of you. Now I think, you know, the fact is, is that, that most of us have a sort of a vision or a passion or a purpose. And part of life is, is is stoking that up, right. And, and keeping that fire alive. And so when I teach leadership, that’s one of the main things I do with people. You know, I believe that every one of us is unique. We are, there’ll never be another person like you, Jenn, or a person like me or anybody who’s listening. We’re one of a kind design. And so we have some natural abilities, some assets where we were born, our interest, all of that that leads us to make a unique contribution with our life. And studies show that when you have that sense of purpose, you lead a fulfilled life. You know? So, so that’s, that’s why it’s so great.

Who are Latinos and Where are They From?Jenn DeWall (06:46): Well, let’s step into your purpose. Let’s talk a little bit more about the power of Latino leadership. And we had captured the phrase that we are, and meaning Latinos are the multicultural future, but let’s level set for people because Latino is a broader term and if someone maybe is, you know, like me and unfamiliar or doesn’t know as much, that can be a confusing who falls under that classification. Yeah. Well, and so who, who are Latinos anyway? I know we have like, I’m not like who, who are Latinos?

Dr. Juana Bordas (07:15): You kinda hit the nail on the head, you know, because so first of all, there’s Latino and Hispanic, Latino refers to Latin America, and it’s more inclusive because it also includes Brazil and Portugal. It’s the Latin countries, you know. But it’s kind of funny because Hispanic and Latino both go back to the Roman occupation of Spain. , that’s the Romans called Spain Hispania. But in any case, Latinos are a blended culture. They’re mainly the Spanish conquistadors or, they are called conquistadors, and the indigenous people of this hemisphere you know, there was kind of a merger unlike North America. And so when you look at the population in south and Central America, it’s called mestizo or mixed people. And then when you add, for example, my father’s father was French, so I’m actually French, Nicaraguan, Spanish and Indian.

And so we have this mixture, it’s called the Mezcla, the mixture. And that’s part of our DNA and that’s one of the reasons Latinos love inclusion so much. And we come from 26 countries and yet we were all colonized by the Spanish and have the Spanish language, common values that hold our culture together. So it’s really kind of a new phenomena, this population that is mixed. And today, if you look at studies 42% of Latinos say we have European blood. Sure. Because of the Spanish. A fourth of us are Afro-Latinos, a another 25% claim their indigenous roots. So even in the way we identify is mixed. And what’s so beautiful about that is that half the children in in today’s America claim that they’re mixed or multicultural. It’s what’s coming. And they’re very excited about living in a world where the best of each culture is available to all of us. And where we can learn and have cultural affinity for all the cultures around us. Like St. Patrick’s Day is coming up next week, and I’m gonna be celebrating that .

What does the Multicultural Future Look Like?Jenn DeWall (09:20): I love it. But you’re talking about the future where we can appreciate the multicultural country countries that many of us live in. So let’s talk about what a multicultural future looks like here in the US. What is today’s dominant culture and how do you think that’s going to evolve over the next few decades?

Dr. Juana Bordas (09:38): Well, we know that our, our culture’s changing. You know, an interesting thing to me was there was an a thousand percent increase in the last census, you know, 2020 census where people who had originally identified as white, checked white and other races. Well, you know, I think that’s interesting. Then there was a 250% increase in people who actually claimed they were multicultural. And now with people checking their DNA and, and and you know, marrying into different cultures and their children having friends and adopting the music and the culture of other people, this multicultural age is coming. And you have to marry that with the global age as well because we have people from so many different countries now, you know, one out of five people in America move every year. And so here we are, this mixture of people from different places and different countries and different ethnic groups and different races. And I think that cultural mix is gonna be so dynamic. You know, nature loves a hybrid.

Jenn DeWall (10:39): . Yes.

Dr. Juana Bordas (10:40): Know, Latinos have hybrid vigor. That’s what I always tell ’em. That’s why we’re so, you know, you look at Latinos and they’re running around, our music has an extra beat. We love color and, and you know, we’re hybrids. And so that opportunity, I mean, there’s no downside to diversity. You know, there’s all these people that go like, oh, this, no, this is an opportunity finally for humanity to come together and tap into the best of every, every culture, every nationality.

Jenn DeWall (11:06): Oh My, I love this. Like, I have tears in my eyes just thinking about a future where we can all come together and just appreciate the different, like values and experiences, the cultures, like all that, the contributions that people can make, really ex expressing those differences. And I love that you said that there’s no downside to diversity, cuz I totally believe that. Like,

Multicultural Leadership and an Inclusive FutureDr. Juana Bordas (11:27): It’s, it’s about growth. It’s about growth, right? It’s an add-on process. Yes. I think we have to do some healing. You know, all of us, all of us may have things that don’t serve us now. But but that’s true. In, in, in, in any, anything you do. You know, they always say that growth is two things. One is doing a little pruning and the other one’s feeding and growing and expanding. Right. And so this is an opportunity I think for all of us, us to come together and we need to do it. We need to do it not only because our children are already there, right, right. Our children are already there. But also because there has been so much conflict in the world about differences and you know, we need to stop that. We need to get over that. We need to look at a future that includes everybody.

Jenn DeWall (12:12): Gosh. And just find the love. Like find our common humanity. Exactly. Find the love, like find the peace. And I know there’s obviously a lot of things that go and be that, but wouldn’t it just be so great? But let’s talk about like what are the benefits if we move towards, I mean, I love your enthusiasm cause we’re gonna get a ton on what you’re going to say because I feel from where I sit, there are tremendous benefits. But again, I know that there are some, there’s a little bit of fear or uncertainty or whatnot. But let’s talk about the benefits when we actually embrace this approach

Dr. Juana Bordas (12:40): Yeah, well let me give you a little, a little Latino thing on this. Ready? Yeah. Latinos have the highest participation of any group in the workplace. We love to work. And whether you’re talking about getting your roof put on or, or having your grandmother taken care of, you know, or or having your food served or your food grown for you. I mean, Latinos are essential workers across this country. And work is dignified to us. If we can work, we’re contributing, which our culture is all about. Everybody contributing their share, doing their part. Work is about dignity, you know? And work is about supporting my family. So, you know, it’s an important thing. And so Latinos have this other thing about work and it’s called Go for the Gusto. Some people have heard that. Right? Go for the gusto.

Jenn DeWall (13:26): Go for the gusto. I love that

Latino EntrepreneurshipDr. Juana Bordas (13:27): Gusto. So that means about passion. Don’t just do your job like, you know, a job. No, do it with some passion. You know, do it with some, some some give it that extra shot. You know, try to do your best work. And then the third one, which I really love about work and and about the Latino culture is that we celebrate life. We have the highest participation in the labor market. Give us a job, we’ll do it. But it we also celebrate life. We spend more money on food going out to eat. We invented the word fiesta. We have celebrations. We love music. We’re higher technology users because we wanna connect with each other. So it’s that whole idea of enjoying life, contributing through work, doing a great job, but at the same time enjoying your family, enjoying your community, and knowing that that life really is a celebration as well. You know? So so the Latino culture has so much to offer people we’re also totally entrepreneurial. 80% of the small businesses in the last decade according to the census, were started by Latinos. Well sure. Because a third of us are immigrants and we’ve got that immigrant can-do, let’s get it done, innovative, risk-taking spirit. And and so I think Latinos are here to revitalize America where we are going to revitalize the American dream.

Jenn DeWall (14:45): Oh my gosh. I feel like I’ve learned so much. And even just thinking about what and how I can learn. I mean, one of the things, things that really stands out about what you just shared is even just that coming back to our purpose of enjoying our lives, of finding joy and enjoying our community or giving back to our community, helping others, supporting our family. I mean, so many of those things that I think we’ve for some reason have kind of let slip or maybe not focused on in the same way. Like just knowing that we’ve gotta come back together.

The Multicultural Future is “We” OrientedDr. Juana Bordas (15:12): Yeah. Well, you know because it’s International Women’s Day, we should take a look at the fact that women, in all cultures are “we” oriented. You know, they care about the family about the community. Women built our schools, they built our nonprofits. And so Latinos are a “we” culture, they’re a people-centered culture as are most cultures. You know, the African-American culture, the American Indian culture and cultures across the world. And that means that you don’t just think about you, you think about we, you think about the collective, you think about people, you think about building a society that takes care of its people. And I think women have done that traditionally throughout history. And so we’re at a crossroads, really. Are we really gonna continue with this gap where they say that three people in America, we won’t name any names, own half the wealth? You know, in our culture, you don’t take more than your share.

Yes. You know, I have a nice house and and you can be comfortable and you could even have a little vacation home if you want that. But you don’t need to be so filthy rich that it damages the other. And so in collective cultures, it was always understood that if somebody took or they had a few that took too much, it would damage the whole. And that’s where we are in society today with, you know, 47% of Latinos not even earning $15 an hour. And the fact is, you know, a good economy where people are making a good wage is good for everybody. Right? Right. And so we need to get back to that. Our constitution starts with, We the people!

Jenn DeWall (16:47): . Yes. I love it. Bring it back to that.

Dr. Juana Bordas (16:49): We need to get back to that. Yes. Yeah.

Jenn DeWall (16:51): And, and I feel like yes, paying people a living wage, giving people the tools or access to the things that they need to be able to live a quality life. Like I just think that’s so important for all of our missions to give that back to humanity.

Dr. Juana Bordas (17:04): Right.

Jenn DeWall (17:05): Right. Why would we not?

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Latino Leadership is Creating a Better FutureJenn DeWall (18:10): And bringing it back into leadership. So I, I, again, I love this cause I feel like, did I get this right? I wanna make sure I got this right. So do did you say Latinos represent 26 countries? Was that what you said earlier? Yeah, 26. Yeah. Holy cow. I did not know that. Right, right. And I’m already just learning and I’m absorbing and I processing and then trying to ask questions and I’m sure our audience is following along thinking too. What do you think as it relates to really creating this like better future where we are embracing, you know, the multicultural future that we’re headed towards, what are the skillsets that you think that leaders need today to be ready to unite these individuals and to help everyone work better together?

Dr. Juana Bordas (18:51): Well two principles of leadership that I think are very helpful. The first one is the leader as equal. You know, and if you talk to people that are trying to create a more equitable society, they will tell you that one of the biggest problems is dominance. Or before it was patriarchy. It’s like one group being, you know, or the leaders being you know, on top in a sense, you know? Yeah. And the leader is equal, defines the leader as someone who treats everybody with respect. And we know it’s true. If, if you ha, you know, if you’re working in an office, the people that keep the office nice for you so that you can go in the IT people that make your, your your IT work, the people who do the payroll and get you paid or whatever, every single person has something to contribute.

The Power of Leadership by Many, and Leaders as EqualsDr. Juana Bordas (19:34): And the leader, their job or our job is to develop those people. It’s to let them know that they contribute. It’s to let them know that they have value. And we do that by our own actions and our own character by treating people with respect. Whether you clean the place or you’re the CEO! And then, and then not, you know, not breaking the rules, you know, following the rules and showing people this is how you lead. And so that’s very important. Now, if you do that, a second thing happens, and that’s called leadership by the many. And that means you begin to get people that believe that they are leaders too, and that they can be leaders. And that’s what we need, you know, in a democracy we need everybody to participate. I mean, we need people engaged. We need people engaged in our schools and our nonprofits and Yeah. And, you know, and, and really engaged in business. I mean, when you hire somebody that they should really give it their best shot. And so these two principles, leadership by the many and leadership as equal, the leader is equal, really can create an organization where people step up and believe I too can make a contribution. So those are two fabulous principles that people can begin using that I, that I really outline in in, in the books I’ve written.

Jenn DeWall (20:50): I have to ask, I have to ask the governor point. And I, I love that of thinking perfect. How can I show people that, you know, Hey, I appreciate you, I respect your contributions. I want to give you that recognition from where you sit. What do you think are the biggest challenges that people run into as it relates to either of those principles or philosophies?

Dr. Juana Bordas (21:10): Well, I do think it is hard. I, I mean, it does mean you have to train people and you have to invest in people, right? People can’t do a good job if, if, if, if they haven’t been shown how to do that, and also been giving the coaching or the mentoring or whatever they need to be able to be high contributors and high performers. So it, it is intense in that way. But I, I, I had a, a leader ask me, well, how do you lead a big team? I say, well, if you really work with people, if you have a shared vision, if you have participatory leadership, if you have a plan that’s step by step so that each time they take a step, they’re moving forward towards that vision. You don’t have to manage that big team because they’re gonna manage themselves , you know?

Building a Collective Culture of AccountabilityDr. Juana Bordas (21:53): So the real goal is to get people to accept that commitment and that responsibility, that I’m an important part of this. And the other thing in collective cultures, if I don’t do my job, I let everybody down. And so if you can, you know, if you can establish that sense of, “we”, we’re in this together, this is our organization, this is our team, then people aren’t gonna let other people down because when they don’t do their job, other people can’t do theirs. You see what I mean? So I have to kind of imbue that spirit in them. And I have to say that when you look at leadership for Latinos or communities of color for 500 years, our leaders had to inspire people with the knowledge that they would never see the success or progress in their lifetime with the knowledge that they had to do this as volunteers, you know, as people who were just had a vision that, that someday their children would finally go to college, their children would finally have a good job in a good home, right? That’s what my mother would say to me. I want you to have a good home. I want you to have a good job. I don’t want you to work like I’ve had to work. And that’s such a motivator for people, you know, when people invest that way. But the leadership that we’ve had in the past has been really an inspirational inclusive type leadership.

Jenn DeWall (23:10): And how do you feel? I mean, I love that and it’s, it is interesting, right? When we recall our own resilience, we can come back to that purpose, but sometimes, yeah, it can be difficult if, you know, you’re not going to actualize in the way that you wish you could, that it’s just smaller steps to get that message, the influence to grow the, the, I guess the purpose and getting it there. What do you think, so if that was the leadership quality, then what do you think is the leadership quality today? Is it more of like, going back to that understanding and how we create that “we”?

Dr. Juana Bordas (23:42): Yes. Well, actually the, I I, I think there’s, first of all, one of the things that I think is real important, particularly for people who don’t know their ancestors the first principle in my, in my multicultural book is, is remember the past, know the past, connect to your past, learn from the past. You know that’s such an important thing for us to do because we live in a society where there’s sound bites and we go from one thing to the other, and people don’t even remember the struggles we’ve had. That’s why I was so happy today when I did my International Woman’s Day post to say, Hey, women have had the vote for a hundred years now. We’ve taken that step. Where are we going next? Do you see what I mean? But to really embrace the fact that, that women have been on this journey for, for over a hundred years and we’re just getting there.

Multicultural Leadership Must Look to the FutureDr. Juana Bordas (24:28): So these things do take a long time, but the true leader is not looking at the present, they’re looking at the future. They’re looking at what’s coming. They’re looking at the fact that, you know, when you look at studies on women as leaders, people would rather work for a woman because women also have that relational aspect that we’re talking about that’s in the Latino culture where people come first, children come, first, families, you know, so anyway, so it, it’s really important for us to be able to look at the past. Then the second shift is from I to WE, this whole thing about Numa and the individualism or our few people being leaders, that that really, and especially for millennials and Zs, if you do some research into the younger generation, they want allies. They want partners. They wanna be part of the, the, the organization. And they don’t like top-down leadership. And so we need to make that shift to we leadership, leadership that really inspires people. And that doesn’t mean you don’t have some, some hierarchy or positions, but those people, you know, it should be kind of hard to tell when they’re walking down the hall. Who’s the CEO ,

Jenn DeWall (25:33): Right!

Dr. Juana Bordas (25:35): I’ve met some CEOs like that, by the way, who are right there, right? And and you know, so they should be, they should be able to roll up their sleeves and, and, and, and be on the ground as well. And then the third shift is this shift to a more generous society where you don’t have such a gap in, in wealth. You know, I’m old enough to remember the fifties, and for those of us that can remember that, you know, my family bought their little home for $10,000. Working class people could afford a home, you know, and the gap in wages where, where the wages haven’t risen I think that’s something we should all be concerned about. We should try to build an America where people are taken care of. And that I think is the purpose of leadership. Whether you’re taking care of your team or whether you’re taking care of your organization and your corporation. How are the people, and do they really believe that you’re there to serve them, to grow them, and to help them reach their own potential?

What are Your Secrets for Success?Jenn DeWall (26:25): Okay, why don’t I have to ask this, like, you’ve given and dropped so many insights, considerations, and perspectives, but you yourself are someone how I’ve come to know you, and I don’t even know, but you, how I would describe you as someone that’s extremely resilient and purpose driven. I know this is kind of off script, but what’s your secret? How do you, how do you stay committed? Because obviously life can get challenging. Things aren’t perfect or where we want them to be. What is one of the things that you keep in mind to allow you to keep to that purpose and keep going even when times are tough? Because I feel like you’re also someone that we can all be inspired by to keep going. If things are going difficult, that we can persevere, we can do it. What’s your, what’s your secret? Give us some tips.

Tip 1: Stay Connected to Your AncestorsDr. Juana Bordas (27:10): , I’ll give you some tips. Number one, you know, I am very connected to my ancestors and so are our majority of people in the world. So I invite everybody to look at my social media during Halloween, because I do a whole thing on Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead, and how you can connect to your ancestry. That’s so important in the US because people were told to change their names to forget where they came from. The truth of the matter is, there’s a lot of power in the people that came before you and whose shoulders you stand on.

Tip 2: Keep Balance in Your LifeDr. Juana Bordas (27:41): I also have a lot of balance in my life, you know I do yoga, I meditate every morning. I’m a hiker. I just went skiing. I’m very active. Your health and how you eat and all that. We all know that. But I’m 80 years old, you know?

Jenn DeWall (27:59): Wait, , are you serious?

Dr. Juana Bordas (28:02): And to, so if you wanna go the long haul and

Jenn DeWall (28:05): You No, you’re kidding me right now. You’re not 80! . Wait, are you kidding? Are you kidding? Right.

Dr. Juana Bordas (28:10): No, no, no, no. I’m actually 80 and a half

Jenn DeWall (28:13): . Okay? This is the moment where we take a pause in the podcast, and I wish everyone could go and Google Juana! There’s no way! You are 80!

Tip 3: Take care of the Mind, the Body and the SpiritDr. Juana Bordas (28:23): 80 and a half . No, but I mean, I mean, you don’t think that way when you’re young, you know, because you do have that vibrancy and so forth. But I would encourage people to figure out, you know, whether it’s it’s the 30 minute walk or whatever, take care of the mind, the body and the spirit!

Tip 4: Live with Purpose and Help OthersDr. Juana Bordas (28:38): And then your heart, you know people say to me, well, why are you still working? I go, well, I surround myself with people who really have vision and purpose and who really wanna make a difference. And all the studies show again that a purposeful life, a life where you’re contributing is, is what’s gonna make you happy. And I kind of learned that from my mom. You know, my mother was a, a woman, a steal, this immigrant woman with a fifth grade education who had a vision and determination that I would be here today, right?

And if I was moping around, she’d say, get busy and do something for somebody else, right? I mean, she was real clear that too much concentration on yourself. And that doesn’t mean you don’t do your healing work. That’s very important. I grew up at a time when I couldn’t even speak my language, you know, and, and I was, you know, discriminated against. People didn’t think I was smart because of where I came from, but so, so you have to do your healing work, but beyond that, you have to serve others. And I think the richness of my life comes because I can look across my life and see how many people, people, how many women I’ve developed when I started Mi Casa Women’s Center in the seventies, or the National Hispana Leadership Institute in the nineties, to train Latino women to be national leaders. When you have that kind of a feeling about your life, then, then the energy just flows

Jenn DeWall (30:00): Wow!

Dr. Juana Bordas (30:00): A beautiful, but yeah. But it’s so important that you, that you keep that mind, body, spirit balance, you know? And then the other thing is, you know, I, I kid people, I go like, I’m independently wealthy, and the reason I’m independently wealthy is because I’ve paid off my home. When I worked at the Center for Creative Leadership, I bought another little house. So I paid off a rental. I paid cash for my car. I have no bills. And so, Hey, I’m Rich .

Jenn DeWall (30:27): Yes, my gosh. Juana, I’m like tearing up because you are, and I hope our audience is getting this too, just the true example and role model of servant-based leadership practicing what you preach of giving back to the community. I’ve even talking about the principles, and I wanna, before we end, I do want to talk about your book just a little bit more so they can understand where to get that. But Juana, like your, your purpose is so inspiring to me, and I just hope that it, it invigorates or inspires our audience because you are just truly a role model of servant-based leaders.

Dr. Juana Bordas (31:01): Oh, thank you!

Jenn DeWall (31:02): I, I don’t see that all the time. Like, right, like, we don’t see that all the time.

The Power of Servant Leadership in the Multicultural FutureDr. Juana Bordas (31:07): But you have to understand it does make you happy and it does make it powerful. Servant leadership is is one of the most powerful forms of leadership because you’re not only by the way the, the test of the servant leader is our, do your people grow, become more autonomous, more likely to lead themselves. It’s not a, it’s not a, what do you call it? A it’s not you serve people and, and no, it’s, you help them become empowered, autonomous, able to serve themselves. So it’s, it’s just such a rewarding form of leadership.

Juana’s Latest Book: The Power of Latino LeadershipDr. Juana Bordas (31:40): So, but we were gonna talk about something and that was my book and what I wanna tell folks, I think that’s so important today, you know, the diversity and inclusion conversation has really not included Latinos like it should being that we’re gonna be, you know, the, we’re gonna be one out of four people in the next like 15 years, but we’re also 78% of the new entries into the labor force.

So regardless of whether you’re working with somebody or you’re a manager, or you’re leading whatever, it’s important to understand the Latino contribution to America and who we are, and that we welcome people to join with us. This cultural adaptability and cultural agility that I talk about in my writing, that’s what we all need in the multicultural age. Cuz just give you an example, you’re gonna be managing people in four different generations. Yeah. That’s cultural agility. Being able to listen to the millennials and the Z’s and recognize, you know, that, that they process information different than me and building a partnership with them where I learn from them and they learn from me. You know, my name with millennials is Tia Juana or Aunt Juana, because they don’t that way, they can relate to me as their, as their favorite Aunt!

Jenn DeWall (32:52): . I love it. Well, I, I wanna tell our audience your book title, the Power of Latino Leadership: ¡Ahora! Yes. When you, who is this book for? Who do you imagine reading this book or how can it help them?

Dr. Juana Bordas (33:05): Yeah. Well well first of all, I think for, for Latinos it’s an opportunity for them to learn about their history, their culture, their leadership, and have a vision for the future, which I call Latino Destino, or Latino Destiny. And I think our destiny is to help build the multicultural world and to reinfuse humanistic values into the American society. You know, values such as hard work as generosity, as community, as people come first, you know celebrating life, the values that we have, I think can re reinvigorate America. But the other thing is, I think for all people that have not had an opportunity to learn about our culture, this is really important. This is gonna prepare you for the next wave of American evolution in this society. And again, we invite you to come with us. That’s a very different form of diversity.

Bienvenido! Welcome – Join Us in the Multicultural FutureDr. Juana Bordas (33:55): You know, we have a value called bienvenido or welcome. And a lot of people can even feel that when they’re with Latinos. You know, we used to embrace each other when we said hello, but we have this whole sense of extended family, of inviting people to be part of us. And I call that Latinos by corazon or Latinos by heart. And so our inclusion is very different. We say bienvenido, we say, come with us, work with us to create this new America that’s diverse, that’s people-centered, that recognizes the contributions of all its people. And that has a vision for, for a different kind of future.

Jenn DeWall (34:30): Oh my gosh. And you’ve just painted a beautiful vision for a beautiful future. Juana thank you so much for coming on the show. I have to ask, just because I feel like you’ve given us so much, is there any less things that you would like to share with our audience before I ask you how they can get in touch with you?

Dr. Juana Bordas (34:45): Well, first of all, I wanna honor them for listening and, and, and for being part of the conversation that shows they wanna learn, that shows they’re turned on, that shows, you know, that they really want to experience differences in a, in a new way. And so thank you all for listening and and yes, it would honor me and my ancestors to, to have this book. But I really do believe to prepare for the future, you under, you need to understand the Latino experience in America today.

Jenn DeWall (35:12): Yes. And where can they get your book? How can they, how can they learn more? I already learned so much, and I, well, I don’t, I realize there’s, so I already knew I didn’t know a lot and now I’m like, I definitely don’t know a lot. And so where can they, where can they get your book?

Where to Find More From Dr. Juana BordasDr. Juana Bordas (35:27): They can get the book on Amazon. It, it as a pre-order. It’s gonna be out March 28th, but they can order it on Amazon, of course. Support your local bookstore, you know, but that, that’s an important thing. We wanna keep our small businesses alive and they can, they can order it, you know through Porchlight or any of the other book things. And, and I’m gonna be a best seller. So get it now while you can, cuz it’s hot!

Jenn DeWall (35:51): . Yes, you are. And wanna thank you for sharing your, you are a light in this space. Thank you for being a light for the people that came before you. I love how much respect you have for the people that came before, but also your passion for creating a better world for us all to live in. Come and join us. Bienvenido. Like, welcome. I just, you are a beautiful light. Thank you so much for coming on this show.

Dr. Juana Bordas (36:14): Oh no. Thank you for having this podcast. Girl. You go! Bueno! Thank you, Gracias, Adios!

Jenn DeWall (36:22): Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I know that I myself learned a lot and I really enjoyed my conversation with Juana. And if you would like to get in touch with her, you can purchase her book, The Power of Latino Leadership ¡Ahora! It’s available now on Amazon. You can also head on over to her website. It’s the first book on Latino history, culture, and leadership. And will prepare you to work with, manage, and lead the fastest growing sector of the workforce and the most entrepreneurial group in America.

And of course, if you know someone that could benefit or learn it, would love to hear this episode, share this with them. And finally, don’t forget to head on over to Crestcom.com. There you can request a complimentary leadership skills workshop for you and your team. You can find out about our complimentary monthly webinars as well as download our Whitepapers and eBooks. Thank you so much for listening.

The post The Power of Latino Leadership in the Multicultural Future with Dr. Juana Bordas appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Attention Management is the Key to Productivity with Maura ThomasHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Maura Thomas to talk about her newest book. Everyone Wants to Work Here, Attract the Best Talent, Energize Your Team, and Be the Leader in Your Market. In this conversation, there are so many insights that Maura shared that I think are relevant to so many of us, and we can use to be better leaders and also manage our time and attention in a different way.

But before we dive into the show, let me tell you a little bit more about Maura. So with us today is Maura Nevel Thomas, an expert in productivity and work-life balance, and a pioneer in the concept of attention management, which she calls the New Path to productivity. Honestly, I love the whole concept. I know that you will too, but let me tell you a little bit more.

She’s an award-winning international speaker and trainer on individual and corporate productivity and work-life balance and the most widely cited authority on attention management. She’s a TEDx speaker and founder of Regain Your Time. She’s the author of six books, including the one that we’re going to talk about today. Everyone Wants to Work Here, and she was named a top leadership speaker in Inc. Magazine. Maura is often featured in major business outlets, and she’s a regular columnist for both Forbes and Harvard Business Review, with articles there viewed over a million times. Now. I hope you enjoy your conversation. Get your pen and paper handy because she has got a lot of different insights that you can use to manage your attention to be a better leader. Here we go!

Meet Maura Thomas, Author, Speaker and Productivity ExpertJenn DeWall: Maura Nevel Thomas, welcome to the Leadership Habit. I met you a year ago, and your message stuck with me. You stuck with me. I got to watch you speak and talk about your craft, and I’m so excited that a year later, we get to introduce you to our audience because you are just a rockstar at what you do. You also are coming out with a new book, and I’m just so excited to be able to take your message and share it with our listeners so they can get to know and learn the value that you’ve been sharing with audiences from around the world. So more of a welcome to the show today. We’re so happy to have you.

Maura Thomas: Thanks, Jenn. You are so sweet, and I am excited to be here. I’m really excited about this message from my book, and I just can’t wait to talk about it with you, so thanks.

Jenn DeWall: Yes, well, I, they know the audience knows that I love just the basic origin story. I love to hear how people came to be, you know, where they are today. So if you could go ahead and just introduce yourself to our audience, tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you came to be.

Maura Thomas: Yeah, I have worked in the productivity field for my entire professional career. I started out in the paper-based planner world, and when I worked there, it was part of my job to understand all the paper-based planners and all the productivity systems and what everybody was doing and, and selling and, and teaching. And so I went to all the trainings and I read all the books and I saw all the speakers, and the organization I worked in was global. So a couple times a year I went and sat with 42 peers in 42 from 42 other countries talking about productivity in their country and what was working and what they were teaching. And so I just got this really unique education in the productivity industry. My background is not. I’m not one of those, like, I’ve just always been good at this, so now I’m teaching other people, right? ,

It was, it was really just this immersion for years, almost a decade. So when I left and I started my business, that was the skill I had. I knew that I wanted to start a business and you know, you think about like, what do I have to offer people? And people kept telling me, you know, this stuff about productivity that most people don’t know, and you have this, you have this really rich education in it, and that’s what you should teach. And I, while I was at that company, I also got an MBA, so I got sort of the business knowledge and, and that kind of thing. And then I started blogging and as a result of my, in 2009, as a result of my blog, Wiley Publishing came to me, and asked me to write my first book on productivity.

Then I got invited to do a TEDx talk, and then I got invited to write for Harvard Business Review, and then I published my second book, and then another publisher came to me when I started talking about attention management as opposed to time management as the new path to productivity. And so it just all sort of blew up from there. And now this is my sixth book. I write for both Harvard Business Review and Forbes and I travel all over the world helping leaders in teams have more days where they go home saying, oh my gosh, that was such a good day. I got so much done. And fewer days where they say, oh my gosh, I was busy all day and somehow I got nothing done. .

Do Other Cultures Look at Work and Attention Management Differently?Jenn DeWall: Yeah, that’s the reality I feel like of so much of us. So what that feels like more your, your resume, your accolades, I, there’s so many things I wish we had four or five hours to be able to unpack even, you know, to get to the surface of like just so much knowledge that you have. But I’m curious, I love that, you know, you were able to sit and learn from people in different cultures, like you said, the 42 different people, 42 different countries. What do you think from where you sat, what are some of the, I guess the variances that you noticed across cultures? Is it that we prioritize, like our, and I’m gonna sound very uneducated asking this, like, is it that we priorit how we prioritize our family? Or is it who we’re trying to serve? What are some of the differences you notice and how we manage our time across cultures?

Maura Thomas: Yeah, I one of the biggest differences that, I mean, a lot of people talk about is that I think in in the US and in other cultures as well, we are very, very focused on work, which in some ways is not at all a bad thing. But I think people, excuse me, I think people in Europe and some other cultures are a lot better at prioritizing things outside of work and working to live instead of living to work. And I understand getting passion from your work, but I write a lot about burnout and work-life balance and and I, I help people a lot. This is the biggest challenge, primarily in the US that I see, is that people just, that they’re having the joy sucked out of their days because work is such a priority. And so that’s, I think that’s the biggest cultural difference that I saw.

Jenn DeWall: Gosh, this makes me want to almost, I wish I could have that messaging, you know, that conditioning removed out of me , you know, where you could just, wow, find more of that peace, find more of that choice, stop the “Sunday scaries”, stop worrying about certain things or, you know, I think, and maybe, I’m not sure if you see it in a, in a particular population or like certain characteristics of people that I’m more prone and vulnerable to burnout, but as a perfectionist and someone that has a high sense of, you know, my success professionally comes back to my worth, like all the time how I feel about myself. And so yeah, there’s, how do I learn the stopping point of being like, Jenn, it’s okay. It’s okay because I will still be incredibly hard on myself and I’m sitting here at 40 and this is a message I’m intrigued by, and I know the wrong ways that I’m continuing to do, but yet it’s hard to break that habit.

I wish it was never conditioned with that to some extent, just to be able to find the beautiful joys in life. And I got, I feel like your message, I mean, must help so many people just because I know so many people that are also in that spot of feeling like we’re never good enough. And I asked you just on this pre-call, so I wanna ask this and then we’re gonna dive into your book. But in terms of our ability to be, you know, effective to manage our time, I honestly feel like every week I’m like, how in the heck did people do this 20 years ago, 30 years ago? Like, how in the heck were they successful? Because it feels like I can’t do it, I don’t have enough time. What do you think is the biggest difference between maybe that judgment of thinking that people had it easier then than what we do today?

Attention Management When Distractions are Literally at Your FingertipsMaura Thomas: Oh, a hundred percent. I think people had it easier then . When, I mean, it, it absolutely, in, in the days before the internet and internet connected smartphones, there were many fewer demands on us. I mean, now we have just dozens of communication channels and information. The biggest difference now is that information is no longer passive information is pushed to us through our technology, where 30 years ago information was passive. If you wanted to know something, you had to go seek it out. You had to go to the library. You had to find today’s paper, right? I remember even just as, as recently as like, you know, seven or 10 years ago, I was talking to my mom, and she was like, oh, oh, it’s top of the hour. I have to go. I have to go because they’re gonna put the weather on the news at the top of the hour and I have to go. And she had an iPhone. I was like, mom, just tap the button on your phone that has weather you, like, you don’t have to rearrange your life now around the news. But that’s how it used to be. We had to seek information out and now information is pushed to us whether we want it or not.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. Whether we need it or not, because I can think of how many distractions or Yeah, I’ll, I’ll spare the audience of knowing like the distractions that I can fall prey to on the internet, but it’s so easy.

Everyone Has The Same Amount of Time – We Just Get DistractedMaura Thomas: Yeah, and that’s the thing. That’s, that’s why my 2009 when I started writing, I started shifting because everybody thinks that the path to productivity is better time management. If I just manage my time better than I can achieve more of what’s most important to me, which is how I define productivity. But the thing is, we all, everybody who has ever walked the face of the planet, gets the same 24 hours. And on the days where you say, I got so much done. And on the days where you say, oh my God, I got nothing done, it was still, you had the same 24 hours. Yeah. So it’s not that we don’t have enough time. And even if you did manage your time successfully, which is essentially calendaring, right? Planning your day, I’m gonna do this at this time and this at this time, and that’s how I’ll get everything done.

It’s like a puzzle, right? I have this much room on my calendar and I’ll just stick things in until they fit, right. But how you manage your time only matters to the extent that you also devote your attention. If you book something on your calendar, you book a proposal, right? At two o’clock I’m gonna do this proposal. So the proposal comes in, but then an email pops up and, oh, let me check what that is. And then, you know, the notifications on your phone and then the phone rings and then somebody interrupts you, Hey, do you have a minute? And the time goes by with you only giving your attention to that proposal in two minute increments and getting distracted in between at the end of that hour that you set aside to do the proposal, it won’t be done. Right.

Maura Thomas: So our biggest challenge in the 21st century is not that we don’t have enough time, it’s that we have too many distractions and you can’t solve a distraction problem with a time solution. The antidote to distraction is attention. And so what is much more relevant today in the 21st century than time management is attention management. And that’s why all my productivity books have this underlying theme. If you don’t manage your managing, your attention is foundational. And you have to learn that before you can do anything else. Including my new book where I help leaders create an environment where their teams can get work done because organizations are so full of distraction and that distraction is inadvertently created usually by the leaders.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that we’re gonna bring, be bringing this in and even just thinking the working styles that we have. I had read a statistic, I don’t know, a few months ago that had said something that 85% of people have their email open in the background . And I’m like,

Maura Thomas: Well, I bet the number’s higher than that. I bet the number’s higher than that. Yeah.

Jenn DeWall: But how, like, thank goodness that like you are here to help people focus on, you know, it’s that attention management, but how are people supposed to be, how are we supposed to learn this, right? When like, those distractions keep getting more and more, like at what point are we supposed to now introduce this at an, you know, an elementary or early education time to like get people prepared and not just say, I expect you to answer that, but I’m just more curious of like, how are we supposed to start to learn this so we can prioritize that? Or there’s just so many layers I feel like to our attention. But okay, we’re , we’re, how, how would you say that? Like people can learn that today and then we’re gonna go into your book.

You Can’t Control Time— But You Can Manage Your AttentionMaura Thomas: Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is to raise awareness. A lot of people accept like distraction is just part of the world and this is just how the world is. And I just have to figure out how to navigate this, how to, how to get all my work done and, and live my life in spite of constant distraction. And I reject that premise because here’s, here’s the beautiful thing about attention management. Over time management, you cannot manage time. It marches on it. You can’t slow it down, you can’t back it up, you can’t bend it to your will in any way. But there is only one person who can control your attention and that is you. And so we, a lot of people, and people do this with their kids too, like, oh, this is just the world they grow up in. I think the best thing that parents can do for their children is help them learn how to be less distracted, help them learn to manage their attention. And one of the primary ways to do that, adults can do that with their kids, is to model it. So to me, attention management is the most important skill, and it’s not gonna, that’s not gonna change anytime. No,

Jenn DeWall: I mean, and I can just picture even kids or like just the TikTok or you see the attention spans dropping over the last like few decades, which like, how can they get shorter? Can they even get shorter? Like, what does that mean if they, cause I thought, and I’m sure, you know, as I thought I’d read a stat that was, it used to be 13 seconds in the early two thousands, and now it’s like five or six seconds. And honestly, can it get shorter ? I don’t know if it can, that’s a really short amount of time. Mm-Hmm. Yeah.

Maura Thomas: We can’t, we, we can’t apply ourselves in, you know, 30 second, one minute, two minute increments. We can’t, we can’t, I call it unleashing your genius. We can’t muster the full range of our, not only our, our wisdom and our skills and our talents and our abilities and our knowledge, but we also can’t be our most diplomatic and our most empathetic and our most compassionate and our most kind. Right? You’re frazzled all day long. And I mean, how many times people say to me like, oh my gosh, I snapped at my kids, I snapped at my coworker. Right? I was just so stressed and so frustrated. Right? And it’s not because we are not nice people, it’s because we have stuff coming at us all day long and that is super stressful and we can’t be our best selves in one minute increments.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, Maura, I just appreciate you sharing that for everyone that needs to hear that, right? That we’re not necessarily set up for success right now and, and certain things and that. But I do, I love your message in the sense that it feels really empowering because time management feels like something that I, I can’t control, but attention does feel like something that I can control. And so it feels like you’ve given me, you know, just that, that million dollar like value and something that I actually can own, but I have to manage my distractions. But I like that it feels like I can, I can focus on that. I can get some control back or I can take that control into the situation.

You can Live in Reaction and Distraction or with Intention and ChoiceMaura Thomas: Absolutely no one can but you, we either live a life of reaction and distraction, or we live a life of intention and choice, and the decision is entirely ours.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, you’re hitting deep. I guarantee someone right now is like, how am I living my life? I I’m processing this real time with you. All right, let’s, I just, I’m loving this conversation already so far. And again, just giving people that space to be humans, I love that your message does that to be like, you’re not a bad person. Things are just not there. And I, I just really appreciate that. Because I think in sometimes when we do talk about it as time, there is a little bit more shame. Like you’re just not managing your time, whether you could be more, and I feel like there’s empathy in your message, which is just goes a long way given the amount of things that we have to get done. But let’s, let’s dive into, or unless, do you have a response on that? Sorry.

Maura Thomas: No. Well, not on that, but I was just thinking about what you said because I think a lot of people feel like you when you were saying like, I’m a perfectionist and I get, you know, work is what makes me feel fulfilled, fulfilled and successful and, you know, and I just wanna do a good job. And so, and, and I think so many people feel that way. We work a lot because we are driven and we’re motivated and that’s a good thing. And nobody should feel bad about that. But here is a way to think about it that might help you. I know you and probably most of your listeners, we are what, what some people call knowledge workers, right? We are people whose job outputs are brain functions, right? Our job outputs are things like relationships and thinking and critical thinking and analysis and ideas and connections, right? Among different things and innovation, right? If your job outputs come out of your brain, then you need to make sure that your brain is functioning well on a given day. And the only way that your brain functions well is if you take care of your body in your mind, right? You need physical and emotional wellbeing to be good at your job. And so the thing that I love to tell my audiences is that sometimes the best thing you can do for your work is not work.

Jenn DeWall: I want that. I wanna listen to that on a day. Like, and honestly like, cause it’s hard if I’m being hon you know, that I just got through Covid. I didn’t take a single day off like when I had Covid because it’s like, there’s just so much stuff that you have to do and like, I’m not great at that. Because it’s always that churn. I know I’m probably a poster child for burnout right now, but I love just even like saying that message because it’s to someone like me, it is a hard reality to consider. Excuse me. Like, you want me to not work? I don’t understand that messaging does not compute in my conditioning mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . Like it’s, and it’s a good reminder, but like I just Yeah, I love that.

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What Inspired Maura’s New Book: Everyone Wants to Work HereJenn DeWall: Okay, let’s dive into your book. You’ve got so much knowledge to share. So your newest book, your sixth book, congratulations. Just, you know, on that too, like, that’s a huge accomplishment. Congratulations, Maura.

Maura Thomas: Thank you. Thank you. I’m so excited.

Jenn DeWall: Your Sixth Book, Everyone Wants to Work Here: Attract the Best Talent, Energize Your Team, and be the leader in the market. All right. Let’s know, what inspired you to write this book, knowing it’s your sixth. What inspired you to write this story? Or not story, but this book?

Productivity Issues Usually Start with the Behavior of LeadersMaura Thomas: Yeah, so I spend a fair bit of time in my job working with– I work with whole teams, but I also work a lot with specifically leadership teams. And so I would, prior to that, I would go in and leaders would hire me and I would train their team members on how to be more productive and how to manage their attention. But what I quickly realized is that the environment that people were working in did not support the training that I was delivering. And so I realized that without addressing the root of the problem, my training was just a bandaid, right? You can, you can teach people the best practices, but if they can’t implement them in the environment in which they work, then it’s never going to help. So I realize the bottom line, usually the biggest impediment to the team’s productivity is the behavior of the leaders and the culture of the organization.

And so I wrote a book about five years ago addressing this and this new book, everyone wants to work here is really building on that. We have a whole new world than we had five years ago with af, you know, post-pandemic. A lot of the principles from that book, work Without Walls, are still relevant, but this book really is my most current. My message is to address the root of this problem. It’s the most current, the most relevant, I think, solution. Because most leaders that I talk to when I bring up some of these things, it’s really an eye-opener. It’s really very, I mean, it’s not rocket science that I teach. It’s not even. It’s not even that revolutionary. It’s just something people don’t think about. And I do that a lot in my work.

I talk about shining a light. We don’t think about the way we work until somebody forces us to think about the way we work. And then it’s like, oh, that’s not smart. What am I doing? , right? And so, so that’s what the book is about, how leaders are unintentionally creating a culture that is undermining their team’s ability to do their best work. And so when you have a workforce who goes home every day and say, oh my gosh, I worked so hard, and still I got nothing done again, that makes people really demotivated, really exhausted, really burned out. It makes them start to feel negative. It sucks the joy out of their days. And, and then if they’re unhappy at work, then they go home and they’re unhappy. And it just is this huge snowball effect. So that’s what the book is about.

How Leaders Unintentionally Undermine ProductivityJenn DeWall: Well, and it’s an important read, right? Giving us the gift of our presence and ability to be our best. Instead of feeling like every single day I’m just set up to fail in some capacity. Like either I’m, I’m not, you know, meeting or matching someone’s expectations or I just am not able to deliver. And I love that we’re gonna be talking about shining a light. And I, I again, appreciate the way that you share that because if you are doing some of these things, you know, you don’t have to shame yourself. It’s just an opportunity to reflect and think about what you could do differently. So I really appreciate you have that so much in your messages, and I just think our world needs that because we are so, again, probably my perfectionist, but we are so incredibly critical of ourselves and wanting to be the best and just creating that space to be human, I think. Is there, all right, let, let’s shine some light right now. So Maura, from your perspective, what is the single biggest issue that hampers individual and organizational success?

Maura Thomas: In a word, the single biggest issue is distraction. We are bombarded all day long with communication and information, and we have just sort of adopted this belief that everything requires an immediate response. We think that we will be providing better service if we respond immediately. We think that people expect an immediate response, and I, in some cases, people would like an immediate response. But the problem is what happens inside organizations is that we inadvertently create a culture of urgency. And when everything is urgent, nothing is urgent. And when every incoming communication, that might be some system-generated auto notification or the most important message from your biggest client or your boss or anything in between! Any communication that you receive could be any of those things. And the only way you know is to read it as it arrives. And not just email, but chat and DMs and, you know, all the, all these different communication channels that we get.

The only way to know if it’s an emergency or if it’s important, or if it requires an immediate response is to check it. And so we get a message every like 30 seconds, every minute, every two minutes, we get a new message. So how do you get anything else done if you have to read every message as it arrives? And that distraction issue is infecting every corner of business operations. That’s the primary message of the book. And it in, I mean, it just, in it infects work-life balance. It infects communication. It infects personal workflow. It impacts quality. It impacts operational excellence. It impacts growth. It sabotages all of those things. And so, so seeking out the root of distraction and solving it can save organizations millions and make employees happier and more productive and less stressed.

What is a Reasonable Turnaround Time for Emails?Jenn DeWall: I want this working utopia for us! We deserve it. Right? We, because we are in that place. How do you, you know, when I even talked about that stat of like 85% of people had their email open. When I teach for Crestcom, like teaching the classes, I know that some people are multitasking in a virtual world. And when we talk about that, like there’s a lot of fear, I feel like in what if something right? At like, so how do you even approach that in our modern-day world where emails become such a big part of our jobs, which not see it in our job descriptions, right? Like that you have to manage this, but it’s such a big part of our jobs. How do you even start to approach that? Because right now, from where I listen, when I hear leaders talk about that, it’s like, well, what if I, it’s everything you just shared. Like, what if I miss something? What if I need to do this? I I have to check my email first thing in the morning or else like, and so how do you, this messaging has been such that culture of urgency, as you said, I love that. Like how the heck did we get here and why are we still, you know, kind of maybe expecting people to do a 24-hour turnaround? Okay, here’s a, here’s a straight of question. Is a 24-hour response time even feasible anymore in our world?

Maura Thomas: It is. I think that we have to set expectations, but for sure, so here’s the thing we, to answer your question, like one of the smallest ways to, to solve this that I, that I talk about in the book is that we need leaders need to create inside their organization communication guidelines. Because the problem is we keep introducing more and more and more ways to communicate, but we don’t provide any guidance about which tool do we use in which situation. And so when leaders don’t provide any guidance, what happens is it defaults to each individual’s personal preference, whether those individuals are inside the organization or whether there are clients or vendors outside their organization. Well, this client always needs an immediate response, but this client seems fine if it’s, or, or this client prefers phone call and this client seems to prefer email and this client seems to like text message or th and thi each individual person inside the organization, we all work together and Joe seems to prefer, you know, a, a, a message on our team collaboration tool.

And Mary seems to prefer email and Lisa likes phone calls and, and Mark always wants to set a meeting. And so I don’t know, I’m just gonna send all the information in all the ways, right? And that way I’ll just cover everyone no matter what they like, they’ll get it the way they want it. I’m gonna send it in all the ways. And so now instead of having one communication about one issue, you have two or three or four or five communications about one issue that everybody has to clear. I ha yeah, I got it in text and I got it in email. I mean, how many times have you gotten a chat or a text that said, Hey, I just sent you an email. Go check that email. Right? Right. And then, and then have you ever gotten sucked in and you’re like, you text back and you’re like, yeah, I got it.

And I responded, did you get the response right? So now you’re having a conversation about your conversation, which, so this is where the volume of communication is so much higher than it needs to be inside organizations, but the efficiency of communication is so much lower than it should be inside organizations. And every additional minute that we spend managing excess communication is a minute that we’re not spending doing our actual job. Whether it’s selling or designing or solving problems or analyzing things like the thing our genius that we were hired for is buried in an avalanche of 250 emails. Then I have to look at the minute they arrive.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. So like so much there. I know someone’s like, this is the reality of my life right now. It feels like I’m constantly there. And I, I just lost my train of thought in what you had cheered in terms of the expression you use because I love the language and I, I know that you had, we had talked about this on the pre-call last week, can you describe or access communication is what you just said, which I love that we’re in a world where we’re just managing access communication and I’ve never thought about it like that where we do get those messages delivered in so many ways and sometimes they can be, you know, I guess the things that create that urgency of like what we actually have to do sometimes it’s just, I don’t even need to know this right now. Why was I even included on this? But you talk about the sta because I struggle with this and I didn’t realize that like you had really more talked about this and I probably did get it from you when I heard you last year. But communication debt, please tell our audience what communication debt is.

Getting out of “Communication Debt” by Setting ExpectationsMaura Thomas: Yes. So I borrowed with permission, I borrowed this phrase from a tech entrepreneur named Henry Poddar. Apparently, there’s like a technology debt thing in the tech world. But he applied it to communication. It’s basically just the idea that we always owe someone something, right? Some form of communication. When you look at your phone, I call it the tyranny of the little red dot, right? You look at your phone and you’ve got 17 unread email messages and three text messages and four voicemails and you missed six calls and 17 LinkedIn notifications and blah blah blah, right? All my

Jenn DeWall: Gosh, the dots

Maura Thomas: Have a little red dot on them and we feel like, oh my gosh, I, to sum up the number of all the, the numbers on all the little red dots and that’s my debt, right? I owe everybody all these stuff. Not to mention all the other stuff that I already saw that I still haven’t gotten to yet. And so it just feels like we are drowning in this avalanche of debt where we always owe someone something. And so that’s why there’s a whole chapter in the book dedicated to teaching how to create communication guidelines and set up communication guidelines in your organization. So you should never leave your, I would never advocate leaving your customers hanging if they have an emergency. But what you need to say is like routine communication. We do like this. If you have an emergency, we are there for you, but it can’t be buried in with all the other routine stuff.

You have to do this if you have an emergency, whatever that is, right? I, and I have a sample chart in the book about like here, here’s an example of of how you can teach your team and then also your external stakeholders. This is how we communicate in the technology world. Technology companies have something called SLAs, service level agreements. This is how we operate. And I think every company should have a certain amount of SLAs like, this is how we do business, this is how things get done here. This is how we do our best work for you. If you are communicating for this purpose, use this tool. If you’re communicating for this purpose, use this tool. And when we create those guidelines, we unburden our team from their communication debt to a certain extent, and then they have more time to do the things that you hired them for in the first place.

Jenn DeWall: My gosh. It’s like, it’s out when you say it. I’m like, why isn’t everyone doing this? Why are we not doing this right now? , because it, I even think about tensions with customers, right? Of feeling like ike someone can’t respond, I can’t respond in that time that they need. But I love educating that piece of like educating your customers and your SLA or you know, just in those conversations of, in an emergency, please contact us in this way so we can respond in that way. because I think that that’s the piece is like everything is a priority. We’re not even sure we missed things that probably we shouldn’t have missed, but why are we not thinking about the communication guidelines? I just love that and I love that you do provide that as a filter in a way because you’re already just making things seem like this could actually happen. But you know what I mean? Like, this could actually happen. Like it’s not some pie in the sky. Like Yeah, if you, you know, adjust your organizational vision, if you change these group norms like everything’s there, like start here, it actually feels like you can give that nice orientation to make it a reality. And then I’m, I imagine like what ways do you recommend like educating your organization or how do you even start that as a leader? Because what if you are the problem and you’re the one that’s not adhering to the guidelines,

Make Communication Guidelines Part of Organizational CultureMaura Thomas: Right? And that is a hundred percent. So it has to start at the top because I mean, the truth is the behavior, the culture in an organization is created by the behavior of everyone in the organization, right? The way that everybody acts contributes to the culture, but the leaders have more, more influence on the culture because everybody looks to the leaders. Like you get what you tolerate to a certain extent from team members, but the people actually look to the leaders to say, well, if they’re operating this way, that’s how I should operate. And so the leaders have to create the communication guidelines with, with the, you know, to to, to the extent that it’s relevant with the participation of the team. But then once those guidelines are created, the leaders need to invite the team to help hold them accountable because change is hard– and change is hard for everyone. And so, but it just takes, you know, we don’t think about the way we work and so a leader might forget to follow the communication guidelines and now he’s been doing it, he or she has been doing it for a week and then after the week it’s like, oh man. And nobody called them out and they, it was just because they forgot and now they’ve sort of undermined all of their efforts. So we need other people to hold us accountable, but sometimes it can be scary to remind the boss, , like you

Jenn DeWall: Oh yeah

Maura Thomas:

Like you said we were gonna do this and you’re not doing it right. Yeah. So creating a, a culture where people feel safe to uphold the values of the organization is really important

Jenn DeWall: From your perspective, like knowing that you have written about topics, you know, burnout, especially any advice you would have for, I don’t know if in the book, if there’s more prescriptive offerings, you know, even thinking about, hey, here’s some norms that actually might be effective to combat this burnout. Whether that’s not checking emails on the weekends or, you know, I don’t know if you have any rules of thumb or like recommendations or from your experience what you’ve seen be effective because I feel like people are very, very tethered in every single way. And so how do you even start to, I guess, have them drop that security or like that tetheredness that we have, are there recommended norms that can work to combat this burnout so we actually can give the right attention, we can be effective and successful?

Don’t Underestimate the Real Cost of “Just Checking a Few Emails”Maura Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. In the book I talk about, I don’t know, there’s maybe like eight or 10 reasons for burnout, right? It’s not an easy issue there, there are many reasons why people feel burnout, but one of the most common reasons for burnout is pretty simple and it’s just working too much. Most people really overvalue the benefit of, oh, let me just knock out some emails tonight or I’ll get caught up on Saturday or I’ll, you know, I’ll, I’ll spend the morning on Christmas, just, you know, nobody will be bothering me so I’ll be able to get some stuff done before we do family stuff, right? We overvalue how much that will help and we undervalue the cost every time you choose to work or to, and you know, scanning your email and your messages from your phone, that counts as working because it keeps your head thinking about work.

And so every time we choose to do that, we fail to appreciate the cost because if you’re working, you’re not exercising, you’re not sleeping, you’re not reading a book, you’re not going out to dinner with friends, you’re not right, doing all of that other stuff that feeds you physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, right? And so one of the biggest reasons for burnout is simply working too much. And so I tell my clients, you need to define work-life balance for your team. And an easy definition is don’t work too much. And when people ask me, well what’s too much? How do you know what too much is? There’s a lot of research on what too much is and there’s a whole, there’s reams of research and I quoted in the book, the answer though is the ideal number of work hours per week on average is somewhere between 38 and 45 hours of work per week.

And there are weeks for everyone, no question about it. Like, this is just a busy week, and I have to work 60 hours. Like that happens to everyone. But then you have to try to find a week soon where you can work like 30 to make up, right? So that there’s an an average on average if you look at over a month or over six weeks or two months. And if you figure like, yeah, I worked about, you know, somewhere between on average 38 to 45 hours, that seems to be the magic number. Not only what’s interesting, not only for our personal wellbeing but also for our productivity. When we work more than 45 hours a week, productivity actually starts to go down and it doesn’t feel that way. And it’s very counterintuitive, but it’s the truth.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that. Even as a closing point, No! I don’t want to wrap up by the way, I love everything that you’ve been sharing with us, but just that reminder that it, you know, check in with yourself. You might feel like you’re not doing enough because it’s going to feel counterintuitive, but your productivity drops. I think that’s a really important message to share with people that pushing yourself is not necessarily going to yield the results or the impact that you want to have. So Maura, we talked about your book today. Your book is going to be out soon. When does your book drop and how can our audience get in touch with you?

Where to Learn More From Maura Thomas and Pre-Order Her Book:Maura Thomas: Yes. So again, the book is called Everyone Wants to Work Here. So we pull those initials, E W T W H, right? So at MauraThomas.Com/EWTWH, that’s where people can pre-order the book it, it drops April 18th, so it’ll ship shortly after that. And the pre-order there, I’m offering thousands of dollars of benefits in pre-orders, but you can’t get that if you pre-order at a retail outlet, you have to come to my website and pre-order to get those benefits. So MauraThomas.com/ewtwh.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, thank you so much more for coming on the show and your teams, you, I mean, if you’re listening in this chair, like think about how much our time and our attention matters like this book is really, maybe it’s because it’s hitting me as someone that’s in burnout land right now. And I just think it’s a really, really important book that we need to all do a better job at creating better places to work and supporting or creating those communication guidelines that can actually help us enjoy a quality of life instead of just being tethered to the expectations are constantly working. Maura, thank you so much for just taking the time to share your experience, to talk about attention management, to talk about distractions, communication, debt, excess information. I mean, you dropped so many different considerations that we need to be very mindful of and I just really am grateful that we were able to have you on the show. Thank you so much for your time, your attention. We greatly appreciate it.

Maura Thomas: It was my honor. Jenn, thanks so much for having me.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of a Leadership Habit podcast. I feel like I really needed to hear Maura’s message as I often find myself getting caught up in distractions, not focusing my attention on the right things. Now of course, if you want to get her newest book, everyone wants to work here, you can pre-order that on her website, MauraThomas.com. There you get access to bonus material. You should order it for yourself, order it for your team, head on over to MauraThomas.com and there you can pick up her latest book. Everyone wants to work here.

And of course, if you’re looking to develop the leadership skillsets of your team, Crestcom offers a comprehensive year-long leadership training program that’s focused on helping all of your leaders go from managers to leaders, to people that are seeing the human that have the right tools to create success. Head on over to Crestcom.com to learn more about us, our complimentary webinars, our free eBooks, white papers, and of course you can even request a complimentary two-hour leadership skills workshop just for you and your team. Until next time, thank you so much for listening and of course, if you enjoyed this, share it or leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Thank you.

The post Attention Management (Not Time Management) is the Key to Productivity with Author Maura Thomas appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Improve Your Team’s Performance by Building a Competitive EdgeHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with David CM Carter, David Carter for short, and him and I had a conversation on how you can improve your team’s performance and build a competitive edge on your team. Now let me tell you a little bit more about David. David is a serial entrepreneur, otherwise known as the world’s leading CEO mentor, with a 40-plus-year track record in creating innovative businesses and mentoring leaders in influencers around the globe. Entelechy Academy is the entelechy of David’s career and his legacy project, where he has gathered brilliant minds in education, coaching, and professional organizations to support millions in becoming the best version of themselves. And I hope you enjoy this conversation, as David and I talk about entelechy helping you be your best version of yourself and how you can build a competitive edge on your team.

Meet David CM Carter, Founder of the Entelechy AcademyJenn DeWall: Welcome, welcome David Carter. We are so excited to have you. You are across the pond from me over in England, and I’m excited that you’re joining us here on the Leadership Habit today to talk about how we can build that competitive edge on our teams. Welcome to the show, David. I’m so happy that you’re here.

David Carter: Thank you very much for inviting me. I’m delighted to be here.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. And now of course, I love to start off with just helping our audience understand who you are, how you came to be. I know that during our pre-call we talked about this, your story got me and it definitely was an emotional one and made me cry. And maybe the audience will be lucky enough to hear it. But David, if you could just go ahead and tell our audience a little bit more about you and how you came to be, how you came to work, withi and form. Lucky, we wanna hear it all, or maybe none of it. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. We wanna hear it all, but if you could go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience, we would love to hear more about you.

David Carter: Well, I don’t think we’ve got enough time for that because I was born at, I I was born at a very young age and I’m now 64 and I’ve squeezed a lot of stuff in those last 64 years. But I think that I was born in England. I spent the early part of my life living in Australia and New Zealand with my dad’s job came back and settled in England as a school boy. I was highly dyslexic, which in those days they didn’t have a posh word like dyslexia. It was just called stupid. And of course I’m not stupid, I’m just dyslexic, which is a gift. But I decided that I didn’t want to go to college or university and I wanted to get out in the world and start earning a living. And I was fortunate that I ended up working for the first 10 years of my career for two investment banks who sent me to work in seven different countries around the world for more than a year.

And what I became fascinated in was what I now call Performance X-Factor. How come those two companies started in the same town in the same year with access to the same resources? And one of them 10 years later was 27 times bigger than the other one. What did they do or have that the other one didn’t do or have? And that’s what we’re gonna call Performance X-Factor in our chat today. And after 10 years of doing that, I had a wonderful boss and a wonderful mentor who called me into his office in March of 1988 and said, well, young man, record year record bonus. I think it’s time you moved on stop consulting and advising entrepreneurs and go and be one. So my last paycheck was in June of 1988, so a long time ago now, 30 plus years.

Becoming an Entrepreneur by Finding his Competitive EdgeDavid Carter: And I’ve been self-employed ever since then. The first 10 years of my career, I did two startups in the UK hospitality industry. The first one I built up and sold to a trade bar. The second one I built up and floated on the alternative investment stock market in London. And it was the very early days of that market. And I had the thrill and joy of being the best performing share, share on the market. And I had the ignominy or shame of being the worst performing share on the market all within a few months of each other. And so that was my first two startups. I then had a rather dramatic tectonic plate shift happen in my life. And I ended up being a single parent to a seven year old and a three year old. And I decided that the children came first.

And so I resigned my job as the public company, CEO because I couldn’t juggle and do both properly. And whilst I was thinking about what I wanted to do next loads of people came to me and said, oh, can you help me decide whether to float my company or raise money, expand overseas, change my board, change our strategy, or whatever. And I ended up with half a dozen CEOwho I was mentoring on whatever the topic was they wanted some help with. And a rather funny conversation with my mother who said to me, oh, it’s going so well for you darling. And I said, well, it is going well, mum, but I’m just so, so busy with all these clients. I I haven’t got any time to think about what I’m gonna do next. And she said, oh, I thought this was what you were doing next, . So that evening on the drive home, I remember thinking, you know, I’m actually pretty good at this. I really love doing it. It pays the bills and it makes a difference. So maybe this is what I’m doing. And 15 years later, I had event I built up an eventually became the world’s leading chief executive mentoring company with offices and clients and mentors all around the world.

And that was a big success story. We were a tiny little company and we punched way above our weight having clients like McKinsey and pwc and lots and lots of major multinational companies. Which was kind of amusing because I think I, its peak. I had 68 mentors, all of whom had been former Fortune 100, FTSE 100 CEOs, and I was the only one in our midst who hadn’t been to university, didn’t have an MBA, hadn’t run a or Fortune 100 company. But I seemed to be in demand. And I then I didn’t get bored in a, in a negative sense, but I wanted to democratize what we were doing and make it available to people beyond just the C-suite. And my senior leadership team didn’t want to do that. And so I decided it was time for me to move on rather than change the whole company.

How David Became “The Mentor” to CEOs and Business LeadersDavid Carter: I’ve been there 15 years and I was picked up by one of Britain’s leading PR gurus who decided I should be turned into a brand, the mentor. And so I worked with him and his company for a number of years, which was fantastic. He got me to write a book called Breakthrough, which became a bestseller, how to become the best version of Yourself. I did a lot of work on television with the BBC and radio and book tours, speaking to us, traveled the world. And that was when I got the idea that is now Intel about how we could democratize what we were doing with a small number of expensive fee paying clients and make it available to everybody. And that’s a long story. But the red thread throughout my life has been helping people become more, achieve more than they thought was possible for them and to help people get to that next level.

What is Entelechy?David Carter: And the word entelechy is actually my favorite word ever. And it was a word coined by Aristotle. And so the entelechy of a person is the very best version of that person with all of their potential fully actualized. It can apply to other living things too. So like the entelechy of an acorn is an oak tree. The entelechy of a caterpillar is a butterfly, but the entelechy of Jenn is the very best version of Jenn with all of her potential fully actualized.

And I’ve always loved that because everybody’s capable of being more of anything, and sometimes they don’t realize how easy it is. And when they have a go and try it and it works, they’re like, wow, I didn’t think I could do that before. Well now you know, you can do it. And so what about another one? What about another one? And so this is a project which has only launched in the last few months. It’s super exciting. It’s my legacy project. I want to help the world develop their end tele. I want everyone on the planet to understand they can be more and they can develop their own leadership Performance X-Factor. And we do that through helping develop 54 character qualities.

Jenn DeWall: Okay. So I know that you said that we weren’t gonna cry on this podcast episode, but I am tearing up because what I, what I heard as you were sharing your story is an extreme story of resilience. Whether it was, you know, growing up with dyslexia, dyslexia and the labels, or the stigma, or not even the right words for that to then growing into, I didn’t go to university, but I created a ton of success, but I also have the shame of some failures and then believing that every single individual,

Improve Your Team’s Performance by Looking at Failure DifferentlyDavid Carter: Sorry, can I, I just don’t, sorry. No, no, no. first of all, you are using two words that I want us to talk about success and failure. I, I wouldn’t describe myself as successful if, and if success is the opposite of failure. We need to define what failure is. You know, my mother gave me a great phrase once upon a time that failure isn’t falling down. Failure is staying down.

I have fallen down many, many times, but I’ve picked myself up, dusted myself down, got back on the horse and carried on. And so I’ve never really failed. I’ve had lots and lots of fantastic growth opportunities. And so to me, success is about keeping going longer than anybody else. And you need to work hard and try hard. But success isn’t the opposite of failure. And you know, if you think that success means money, you can always find a million people with more money than you. And even if I had the money to buy a private island, I wouldn’t cause it’s not one of my things. So to me, success is being happy, healthy, and becoming my entelechy every day, being a better version of myself and surviving and thriving. You know, I probably do a bit better than the average person, but I think my greatest successes have been that when I’ve fallen over, I’ve stood up and had another go. So I don’t think I’ve ever failed.

Jenn DeWall: I I really love that, like, the reframe of how to look at it. And I think even knowing the level of success you have coached some of the top executive leaders in the globe or around the globe and just being able to say that, cause I know that there’s people that compare themselves that think that people maybe don’t struggle or don’t struggle as hard. And yet you’re saying that it’s all about our own resiliency and how we, you know, adapt to when things do or do not go the right way. It’s all about how we pick ourselves up. I, I love that because I think sometimes people at the top, we lose sight of the fact that failure, whatever we want to call it, missteps, mistakes, things go wrong happen, but it’s all about, again, continuing to improve and build on that. And you’re a true story of resilience in so many ways, and I just am so grateful to even have you.

So to our audience, we have someone that is very, very, as we would call it successful, but they’re not here sitting and saying, well, it was so easy, let me tell you how great I am, and how I didn’t actually fail. And that didn’t happen because there is too much of that today where we see that on social media of like these kind of false realities that are presented as if people are not struggling or don’t have struggles. And I just want to say thank you for your vulnerability and even sharing that, because I think that allows us to see how can we actually build a competitive edge. It’s not by doing things without fail or without mistakes, but it’s about continuing to pick ourselves up. So let’s dive into the Performance X-Factor. What is the Performance X-Factor?

What is the Performance X-Factor?David Carter: Well, I would say this, wouldn’t I? But I really do believe it all comes down to character. Aristotle also had another wonderful phrase, which is that character determines destiny. And so we all end up where we end up in life as the direct function of our character. So two people can be born in the same town, in the same year, go to the same school, get the same grades and the same subjects, and how come one of them 20 years later as the CEO of a thriving successful business? And the other one’s a bus driver in the local bus driving depot. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, if that’s their passion and their thing. So I think that Performance X-Factor is all about dialing up these 54 character qualities to their optimum level in a, in a number of different contexts. And I know that your your listeners won’t be able to see this but as we’re chatting, I’m gonna share something with you.

When we sit down with companies who we talk about helping them become companies of character, I show them this page and just say, there’s 54 character qualities on here. Pick out half a dozen of the 54 that you’d like everyone in your company to be and tell me if they were, what the benefits to them and your organization would be. And they look through and think, oh, well, we’d like everyone to be adaptable and confident and curious and expressive and, and harmonious and collaborative and accountable and disciplined and organized and reliable and resilient. And, and I said, whoa, whoa, you’re only allowed half a dozen . Oh no, no, we want all of our people to be good at all of these now. I said, okay, but which six do you want everyone to be where that takes hours? Oh, if I’ve gotta take that on, no, I don’t want to lose that one.

And then I end up saying to them, what is it you are doing today to help your people become good at any of these character qualities? And they’re like, well, we, we don’t do anything at all. And it’s like, okay, so let’s start off with half a dozen. Let’s not try and boil the ocean. And so ultimately, I think Performance X-Factor is a, an understanding that these 54 character qualities exist and they underpin the development of all skills, hard skills, soft skills, technical skills, and being conscious in everything you do, that there is probably a character quality in this interview right now. In the meeting I had before this in a call with my team early on today, I needed to be analytical with them in the call just now. I needed to be, be a bit encouraging and vulnerable in a and so I think I’m aware because I’ve worked in this field for so long, now I’m aware of all of these.

Improve Your Team’s Performance by Focusing on a few Characteristics at a TimeDavid Carter: And every day I think to myself, right in this meeting, I need to probably focus on being this and that meeting this in this situation. And as a company, every Monday our week begins where Amy, our coo, holds us all to account on what we are doing to develop three company character qualities of that month. So this month they are being discerning and influential and organized, but we also have our own personal character qualities that we’re working on for the month. And we’ve worked split off into little groups of three where we talk about what we are doing to become more of the character quality that we’ve chosen for ourselves for the month. And we also have to say what we’re doing. So this Performance X-Factor starts off with an individual commitment to looking at how I can dial up any one of these character qualities and being better than I would’ve been if I hadn’t thought about it. And if everybody is doing that in sync together and coaching each other and mentoring each other, and we all commit to three company character qualities each month, then by the end of the year we’ve probably done 36 character qualities as a team for the company and a dozen, you know, for ourselves.

Jenn DeWall: I love this framework because it, and correct me if how I even understand this is different, but it’s, it’s, to me, I read it differently as it’s different than a set of operating values that a team or an organization might have because they’re not fixed. It’s asking ourselves, what do we need in this moment for our goals, both short-term and long-term in this moment? And so as what I’m seeing is different ways to look at these qualities of whether it’s you have the three different perspectives of people productivity and purpose and the qualities that then go underneath. But I really appreciate that this is something that isn’t fixed. It’s something that we connect with that we discuss. And I mean, I guess what would you say is the difference between a character quality of a team versus the values of an organization? Because I appreciate that we will need to pull forward different things given what a specific team or organization is going through at any given time.

Your Teams Character Qualities are Key to Improving PerformanceDavid Carter: I’m going to give a slightly sarcastic answer to that. Values are what organizations print in big words in a poster in their boardroom or their reception lobby, and no one pays any attention to, one of my favorite stories was many years ago when I was mentoring the CEO of a big oil and gas company in the UKk and I visited his offices up in Scotland and I was facilitating a workshop on their new strategy and plastered around the boardroom were six big posters of the company’s values. And at one particular difficult point in the conversation, I said to him, you know, how does this strategy tie up with these values that I’m reading around the wall? And the CEO said, oh, sorry David, we didn’t have time to change them before you arrived. I said, oh, why would you want to change them?

And he said, oh, we’ve got two sets of values. One, when oil is above $50 a barrel and the other when it is below $50 a barrel. And I’m probably being very sarcastic and facetious, but I don’t think values, they’re very ethereal. Whereas character qualities is who you are, how you show up in the world, how your colleagues, your customers experience you. And so I can do a 180 on myself and think, okay, well I’m pretty adaptable and I’m pretty disciplined and assertive, da da da da da, and here’s what I think my strengths are. Here’s if you, I probably could work on, but if I ask 14 of my colleagues to ask me what they think they’re going to sh show me how I, they experience me. And we actually do this once a quarter and I actually had a very interesting thing, you know where probably 10 out of the 12 people who did my 360 all saw me as being visionary which I guess in my job you have to be.

David Carter: But interestingly though, and there was lots of alignment about how they saw me, but there wasn’t a lot of alignment in terms of the growth opportunities and they were scattered all over the map. And I remember thinking, oh, well that’s interesting. But then I realized, well, Amy’s written down one or two that she would like me to dial up in my relationship with her. And Rachel’s written down a few that she would like me to dial up in my relationship with her and Indi’s written a few. And I thought, okay, so it’s not that I’m not open-minded, but in a certain context, in a certain situation, Amy would like me to dial that up. And it’s not that I’m not efficient, but in a certain context, Rachel would like to see me dial that up. And so it’s the most incredibly rich feedback because you can think, it’s not that I’m not that, but with that particular person, I can dial it up and please them and improve my relationship with them. And if everyone in the entire organization is focused on dialing up their strength, converting their growth opportunities into strength and figuring out how they can support each other to do that, that’s how you achieve Performance X-Factor.

Identify Growth Opportunities to Improve Your Team’s PerformanceJenn DeWall: Yes. I, I mean, I love that I’m looking at it as, it’s not that we’re not, it’s not that we’re a deficit, that we are our weakness. It’s about understanding in every unique situation with the individuals that we’re working with, how can we alter, or as you keep saying, dialing up what you know, that specific character quality to make sure that we actually are probably working better together, building trust, delivering what we need to be. But I appreciate within this that it’s not saying if you don’t have these, you’re without. It’s saying that if it’s a blind spot, let’s have those conversations. Then one question that I know that we talked about on the pre-call is, I love these character qualities, but how do you, one of my favorite things that, I’m just intrigued by is how to develop self-awareness on people. Because I think that sometimes people might think if I assess myself, I am a really great people person and I am extremely energetic and open-minded, but yet when you do those 360 s people are, they, they might see it, but yet they still don’t wanna hold on to the results and data that’s around them.

So how do you even start to help people develop this self-awareness when maybe ego’s in play and we don’t want to actually identify with one of these, or we don’t like that label?

David Carter: So let, let’s take a specific example. So one member of the team might think that they are humorous and they’re always trying to add something funny to every conversation or tell a, you know, funny story about every situation. But what if no one in the team thinks that their jokes are funny, or actually their humor is often inappropriate and they get that feedback, you know, the person has an opportunity there because it’s very rich feedback to, to either grow and say, wow, I didn’t understand that about myself, that I, I don’t land with other people how I thought I did, but now I’ve got that feedback and they’ve given me the context, not just the feedback. I have a choice. I can screw it up and throw it in in the trashcan and ignore it and pay no attention to it, or I can learn to grow from it. And, you know, how do we develop ourselves and develop our entelechy? You know, feedback is the food of champions. And so you have to want to learn to be more self-aware and say, why would I want to 10 people off in my team who don’t think my humor is humorous? Why would I persevere with that? What benefit could there possibly be to me of being like that when actually they’ve been vulnerable and generous to gimme that feedback? I should be respectful and grateful and do something with it.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I feel like there’s so much there just around how we have the opportunity to process feedback and what we actually look at or how we interpret it as our opportunity for growth. You are truly demonstrating the growth mindset.

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To Improve Your Team’s Performance, Embrace a Growth MindsetDavid Carter: What mindset is there other than a growth mindset?

Jenn DeWall: Well, I mean the fixed right, the belief that everything is, you know, innate are born with, but I feel like I do notice it. I even heard last week at a conference someone talk about how you can’t have a growth mindset and make mistakes. And I, you know, you and I could obviously probably go into a conversation on how that’s actually not,

David Carter: That’s rubbish as rubbish. You, we all make mistakes every day. And if we want to learn from those mistakes and get better and improve, that’s how we learn and develop ourselves. And so anybody, when I had my global CEO mentoring company, we had an incredible roster of people apply to join our firm. You know, after seven or eight years, we were a real little rockstar in the firm moment. And people used to turn up with, you know, their bio well, I was the CEO of this major multinational. I was the CEO of this one. We travel our share price, and I used to listen to them give their five-minute sales pitch about how brilliant and wonderful they were. And then my first question was, so tell me about the things that have gone pear-shaped and gone wrong in your life and how you’ve overcome and turned those around. And if anyone ever turned around to me and said, oh, I’ve never had anything go wrong in my life, I said, what? How on earth can you mentor someone who’s in the middle of a crisis? You know you’ll be no good to me, all my clients, so thank you for your application. Goodbye.

And I remember one chap saying to me, don’t you know who I am? And I said, well, I not only know who you are, but I figured out what you are too. And you will never be a great mentor if you seriously think you’ve never ever made a mistake. And, and maybe you are right, you’ve never made one well done you, but you’ll never be a great mentor because it’s the empathy and you need to tune into what your client is going through and support them through that, which you can only really do have, you’ve been through it yourself or something that you can relate to.

Jenn DeWall: I mean, I just love that you actually had the response for someone to say that that’s not reality or you’re not going to be able to help someone in any profound way if you don’t own the fact that we have limitations or we have missteps along the way. So how do you work when you’re, when your organization works with people to develop these character qualities? What’s the starting point that you have? Because it’s not values, they’re not fixed from what I’ve gathered, it’s, you know, it’s really thinking in the moment of how we can show up intentionally. And so what’s your starting point or how do you work with organizations to help them, you know, up-level and develop their teams to improve or dial up and dial down these character qualities?

Improve Team Performance by Dialing up Important CharacteristicsDavid Carter: There’s part A and a part B to that question. So first of all, with the company itself, as I explained a few minutes ago, we’d sit down and perhaps show them our framework and say to them, you know, what do you think the most important character qualities are for everyone in your organization across the board? And so we could come up with a company set of character qualities, but we also say to them, you know, we understand that people in sales might need a few that people in finance don’t need, or people in warehousing need different ones to people in logistics and supply chain or imports and exports. And so, but there will be a set of character qualities that everyone in the entire organization should be able to demonstrate. And so we’ll help them figure out what those are and then we’ll get the individual employees to do a 360 so they can see how they see themselves and versus how their colleagues see them.

And then we can compare the results of that with how the organization would like everyone to be. And that’s, that can be very interesting because you can literally range from, the organization wants to see itself like this, but no one in the organization sees themselves like that or, or there’s a complete match. And it’s also very interesting cause if you asked the top three or four accountancy firms in the world who are all, you know, the big four, they will all answer the question very differently, which is a function of their culture and their style as an organization. So there’s, there’s no one answer, there’s no one right answer. But if you can then share with the employees, well here’s the half a dozen character qualities we’d like everyone to be good at and here’s why. And you know, and that can be tied into your mission and vision and values and all the rest of it.

But it also an opportunity for people to say, well look, I’m really good at this one and this one, this one which clearly aligned to what the company wants. But in my 360 people have also pointed out this one and this one, which I’m not so good at, which the company would like me to be good at. So there’s two that are worth starting to work on straight away. And because you’ve just had a 360, you can ask all of your respondents, listen, if you see me in a meeting or you are working with me and you see there’s a way that I can dial up being more, whatever the character quality is, please tell me, give me feedback. If you think I’m doing something better or worse, gimme tools, tips, techniques, feel free to coach me and mentor me. It’s like, who’s not gonna respond to a request like that when you can genuinely see that someone’s trying to improve themselves and, you know, work harmoniously with you to achieve better outcome for the company?

Get Feedback from Your Team Members to Improve Their PerformanceJenn DeWall: No, one of the things that I think is great is that we’re thinking about what do we do with that feedback? How do we work for it? And I know that there still might be people reluctant to say, how could I dial that up? Because it’s a scary place to be to admit that maybe we have to change. Well let’s talk about the benefits of this approach. When the organization really chooses these character qualities and lives by them, what are the benefit? But what are the benefits that you notice in your work with clients from actually helping people? Cause it sounds like you’re helping them not only understand who they are to be their best self, but then also to embrace feedback as something that’s not, you know, a fundamental foundational flaw. It’s something that’s actually a part of our role to success. What benefits do you notice when people apply your framework?

How do you Dial Up Key Characteristics?David Carter: Do I have your permission to be your mentor for a few minutes?

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, yes you can. Yes you can. This is the scary part for me. Yes, you do .

First, Pick a Characteristic to Work OnDavid Carter: So let’s show, don’t tell. So your listeners won’t be able to see this, but you can see the screen of the 54 categories. I’d like you to choose one that, if I were to ask your significant other or your best friend or one of your siblings or your parents or one of your coworkers and you knew they were right in choosing it, which one of these character qualities do you think you could perhaps do some work on and dial-up and improve?

Jenn DeWall: ? I’m laughing because I’m like, when you put in all those contacts, I’m like, I feel like I know which one they would say. You know, when I look at this list, I think is, you know, even just the word expressive, how I manage my emotions is one. Or in terms of maybe even my being able to be more forgiving or practice self-compassion with myself. But those would probably be the two. And then maybe more adaptable to allow change to be there. So I picked three, but I guess if I was looking at one, it might be one to dial down would be my expressiveness.

David Carter: Okay, which one are we gonna dial-up?

Jenn DeWall: Which one would we dial-up? I think it is probably my ability to my confidence. Let’s talk about that confidence.

David Carter: Confident. Okay. So if you were to work on being more confident for the whole of March, yeah,

Jenn DeWall: Yeah.

Imagine How You Want People to React to your ImprovementsDavid Carter: In the next four weeks, what would you like people to be noticing and saying to you or sending you a WhatsApp message where they clearly witnessed that improvement in confidence? What would you like them to be saying to you?

Jenn DeWall: I would like them to acknowledge me for setting boundaries around things and not to say yes to everything, but being confident in my time and my availability and saying, we respect that you did that. Even confident in sharing my voice when maybe I don’t think that something is the right thing to do instead of trying to toe the line or say what someone else maybe wants to hear.

David Carter: Anything else that you’d like them to say?

Jenn DeWall: You know, if I was really confident I in the truth, it would be to have less anxiety and just trust that I’m doing my best.

Ask Yourself How Dialing Up that Characteristic Will Benefit YouDavid Carter: Okay. One more thing that you’d like to say to yourself.

Jenn DeWall: One more thing that I would like to say to myself is don’t give up. I think that’s probably the biggest thing is don’t give up.

David Carter: So if you were more confident, you wouldn’t give up, is that what you’re saying?

Jenn DeWall: Yes.

David Carter: Okay. So you can imagine now what those various stakeholders in your life might say to you if you worked on it and you nailed it at the end of a month. Yep. And yes, you know, what you’d say to yourself. So just describe one or two real benefits to you that you would achieve if you pull that off.

Jenn DeWall: I would be less anxious and I would worry less and I would still be taking

David Carter: How, how does that be? How does that benefit you?

Jenn DeWall: I would sleep better. I would be more present in my life and not ruminating or thinking about all of the things that I’m not, I would practice more self-compassion and less judgment.

David Carter: How does that benefit you?

Jenn DeWall: It’s my mental health and it’s my time. It’s my ability to actually help people or be present for the people that I love in my life. And for me it’s just being happier.

Ask Yourself Why Improving that Characteristic is Important to YouDavid Carter: And why is that important to you?

Jenn DeWall: Oh, well this is important because we have one short dang life here on this planet and I want to make sure that I do my best to enjoy it.

Commit to One or Two Actions You Can Do EVERY DAY for a MonthDavid Carter: So final question. Tell me one or two things that you’re gonna do every day in March to achieve those benefits. You’ve just spelled out to me.

Jenn DeWall: You know, one thing that I am working on actively is practicing self-compassion. And that’s in the form of writing something positive about myself every single day that is not met with criticism or self-doubt. I’m now you’re making me tear up . But that it would be honestly practicing self-compassion and letting go of worry. And so self-compassion and maybe writing and it’s journaling, but it’s writing down one thing that I like about myself in one thing that I give myself permission to let go of, or a judgment that I have that I give myself permission to let go of.

David Carter: So would you be willing today to commit to writing for no more than two or three minutes a day for the whole of March in acknowledging yourself in some positive way?

Jenn DeWall: Yes, actually yes. I’m going to commit to that right now. I am going to commit to doing that every day this month. And I love that this is the task and it makes me feel uncomfortable as I’m grabbing my coffee cup, but I, I actually want, I really do wanna commit to this.

Make a Commitment and Hold Yourself AccountableDavid Carter: And would you be willing to commit that we, not a podcast conversation, but you commit at the end of March that we have a half an hour video called catch up and you can tell me what happened and what the benefits turned out to be for you, how easy or difficult it was for you to do that and how you have improved your life through developing your confidence?

Jenn DeWall: I would absolutely be willing to commit to that.

David Carter: Right. Well I think you’ve just hopefully answered your own question.

Jenn DeWall: It’s with tears and you know, thank you for even asking that because I think even our listeners might assume that me, I’m a really confident person and they don’t realize that underneath I’m more of a perfectionist that never thinks I’m doing well enough. And so it is something I really have to work on and I appreciate you for, even, even though it felt real uncomfortable, David, like, I appreciate you just even I guess forcing me to really think about that in, in a way that I can take accountability. And I so thank you.

To Improve Your Team’s Performance Build Awareness, and Then Take ActionDavid Carter: Well, there’s no point knowing that you are not as confident as you want to be or think you could be, that is not gonna help you. So acting on it with intention and dialing it up and working on it, you can learn and grow through that. And guess what, in a month’s time you’ll think, you know what, that wasn’t as hard as I thought the benefits were five times more than I said to David. And now I’m gonna look at another one over here that I think I could dial up as well. Because I chose three initially, but fo and you learn how to learn to dial up all of these innate capabilities in yourself.

Jenn DeWall: My gosh, I, and I love that this is, it feels manageable, it feels like it feels manageable. It’s not me trying to be and pick up a list of character qualities that I have to try to be all. But this feels, and you had said the two to three minutes, this feels manageable and it also is helping me be accountable because we’re talking about it instead of something that I live and don’t talk about in my head.

David Carter: And most people, Jenn, is like, if they make that commitment as you’ve done now to, you know, one character quality for the whole of March, two or three minutes a day then you are gonna go into every meeting, every conversation, every situation think, right, how can I be more confident in this meeting, in this situation right now? I could try this. Oh, that didn’t work. Oh, I’ll try something else. Oh, oh, that seems to work. And you don’t, it is not like you need to get off the bus and go on a course for a week. It’s like you’re just trying it out. Course correcting, learning as you go and grow and you’re doing it in the flow of life, in the flow of work, in the flow of studies or whatever. And just being conscious, I can be more courageous and, and I want to be, and let me experiment with it. Let me fail a few times and fall over and pick myself up and dust myself down and have another, oh look, it worked better this time. So therefore it wasn’t a failure. It was just a growth opportunity.

Building Resilience to Improve Your Team’s PerformanceJenn DeWall: How I, okay, I have to ask one final question, but how do you, because my initial thought if we’re talking about confidence is that when I make a mistake, it I immediately feeds that beast of like, you’re still goofing it up. And so I’m curious if you have tips just knowing the level of resilience that you’ve demonstrated of how you can still approach yourself with compassion, even if you’re not, it feels like you’re not there. Like, I don’t know if you have words of wisdom or that you’ve used, because that’s probably my most big difficult thing is meeting myself in that moment with kindness. I’m probably begging for tips and tricks here of just like a perspective on that of like what you remind yourself or any mottoes that you remind yourself of.

David Carter: Well I said earlier on in our conversation about how I ended up being a single parent, you know, of a seven year old daughter and three year old son. And I chose to focus on being a good dad. If you were to ask my children today to gimme a score outta 10 on my parenting skills, you know, and to comment, they would say, oh my God, he hadn’t got a clue what he was doing. You know, he was so embarrassing. He was the only parent that ever wanted to do it his way rather than all the other. And if I had a dollar for every time my children called me embarrassing, I could have retired a long time ago,

But they, but they will say, but he really gave it his best shot. He really tried his hardest and if he did screw up and we pointed out to him that he screw, he was decent enough to say, you know what? I think you are right. I should have done it that other way and I apologize. You know, I really, really tried my very hardest, you know, to be a great dad to my children. I try and be a great boss to everybody, a -great business partner or whatever, but I’m human and, and what, you know, would look great to me being a parent didn’t look great to my children always. And you know, they had the same love and the same discipline and the same rules and the same values, but they’re as different as chalk and cheese. So something might work for one, but not for the other one.

But at the end of the day, they’re now 36 and 32 and they still come and stay with me once a month and voluntarily I don’t have to insist on it. And you know, I know we love each other very much. And, and, and, and the funny thing is now the last few years they tell me and each other, oh my God, I’m becoming more and more like dad. Now I heard myself say this the other day or doing this the other day, , and it’s like, yay, 20 years later I’m finally validated. But I think that, you know, that’s just being human, you know? And as long as you give everything your best shot and you do learn from your errors and mistakes and you apologize to people and you put the train back on the tracks, if it falls off, that’s life. You know, the, the one in the chat, the, the chat, there were two or three over the years who came in and said, well, I’ve never made a mistake in my life. I always wonder, had the question on the tip of my tongue, oh, I’d love to hear your wife’s perspective on that

Jenn DeWall:

David Carter: Or your secretary, exec assistant, you know, your secretary’s perspective like and, and give him that feedback. But you know, we are all human. Give it your best shot. Try your hardest, be kind, realize that, you know, falling over isn’t failure. Staying down is failure. Get back up, dust yourself down, have another go. Try it a different way. Do it with honesty and integrity and be kind along the way. And that is how we grow and learn.

Jenn DeWall: David, I really appreciate your words today for our audience. I know that I needed to hear that message and I know that someone else needed to hear that message. And I really appreciate Entelechy’s approach of seeing human, being human, treating human. That’s how it feels to me is like creating a better workforce where we can be our best by not magnifying only our worst, but continuing to look in small ways of how we can improve. David, how can people get in touch with you?

Where to Find More From David CM CarterDavid Carter: Probably the best way is via LinkedIn. And if you look up David Cm Carter, that’s David CM Carter you’ll find me on LinkedIn or you can email me at hello@entelechy.academy. But LinkedIn’s probably the best way to get ahold of me and I reply to everybody, by the way.

So I was I was going to share one last little, little story with you, based on something you just said. So when you write a book where it says on the front cover, you know, learn to become the best version of yourself through the world’s leading CEO mentor, you kind of put yourself on a pedestal, you know, ready for everyone to take a shot at you. And so one of the most frequently asked questions that I was ever asked was, so, Mr. Mentor, are you the best version of yourself? And I always used to say yes, I absolutely am the best version of myself. And they were quite shocked that anyone could be so arrogant to, you know, say that they were the best version. I said, and the only reason I say that is because every day, I work to be a better version of myself, and it’s as good as it gets today, but there’s plenty of room for improvement. And so, you know, developing our entelechy, it doesn’t really all fit into place until right on the last day, but I still want to keep going and try to get there.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, every day, every day, is an opportunity for us to be our best self. I love that. I that’s a beautiful way to end it. David, thank you so much for, I don’t know, just being you and creating this space and having these conversations as it relates to, you know, being our best and how we can do that with honesty and compassion and vulnerability. Thank you so much for coming on to the Leadership Habit podcast. I, I truly loved having you on.

David Carter: It’s been a pleasure, and thank you very much for inviting me.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast. I really enjoyed my conversation with David. I was a little in my fields. It can be difficult to talk about the things that we want to work on or the things that, you know, maybe are blind spots, but I’m really grateful for my conversation with David and for helping me, and I hope that it helps you.

And if you want to learn more about entelechy, you can actually download their app. You can get a free 14-day trial, the entelechy app, that’s entelechy, E N T E L E C H Y. And that app is available on both the Google Play and Apple App Store. And, of course, you can check out and learn more about entelechy by going to entelechy.academy.com.

Thank you so much for listening today. If we can help you improve your team’s performance, or help to develop your leaders, please head on over to crestcom.com. We would love the opportunity to offer a complimentary leadership skills workshop, or you can head on over to crestcom.com. There, you can download our eBooks, and you can even find out more about our complimentary webinars. Until next time!

The post Improve Your Team’s Performance by Building a Competitive Edge with CEO and Business Leader Mentor, David CM Carter appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Overcome Resistance to Change with Marina FieldHi everyone, it’s Jenn Dewall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Marina Field to talk about how to overcome resistance to change. I know that I resist it and I know that others do too. Change doesn’t always seem on the face of it like the best thing, but we also know that in the future of work, change is a part of life. But let me tell you a little bit more about Marina Field, who I sat down with for this conversation today.

Meet Organizational Psychologist and Change Consultant, Marina FieldJenn DeWall: Managing your career can sometimes feel like a maze where you constantly bump into obstacles as you’re trying to achieve your goal. That’s why Marina is passionate about providing her clients with the tools and resources that they need to navigate their careers more effectively. With a doctorate and organizational psychology from Columbia University in 20-plus years of corporate experience, she has the unique ability to provide theory-informed guidance that is both practical and actionable on any given day. You might find Marina coaching mid to senior-level women transitioning careers, consulting with organizations on talent management issues, or facilitating student learning regardless of the day. Identifying ways to help others develop and grow is always at the forefront of our minds, and let’s grow together as we talk about how to overcome resistance to change.

Jenn DeWall: Hello. Hello. Hello, Marina. I am so excited to have you here today talking about change, something that not everyone really likes! I mean, and we’re gonna get into that. We’re gonna talk about what it takes to actually create change, and why people struggle with it. But before we get into our topic today, Marina, I want to welcome you to the show. Thank you so much for being here on the Leadership Habit. We are so happy to have you as a guest.

Marina Field: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to actually be here.

Jenn DeWall: Yay. Okay. So I know that we ride your brief bio, but please if you could go ahead and just introduce yourself to our audience, tell us a little bit more about yourself, how you came to be, anything that you would choose to share is totally fine.

Marina Field: Sure. Well, my background is in organizational psychology, and that’s the study of the intersection of work and people. And while I was studying organizational psychology, I had the opportunity to get an in-depth understanding of change management from an academic and theoretical perspective. And then once I was done with school and got my PhD, I went into consulting. And while I was in consulting, then I had the opportunity to apply that knowledge that I gained in school and help organizations good go through these really large change transformations.

But at the same time, when I think about change and I think about me and like trying to answer your question, I’m also a product of change. Just like everyone that’s probably listening just like you, like every, we all go through change. Like, you know, I’ve been been in, in organizations that have gone through mergers, I’ve transitioned fields, I’ve been promoted, so all these different things. And so I really love change, but what I love even more is helping individuals and organizations understand and manage change. And that’s whether I’m acting as a career coach, a consultant or university lecturer.

What Happens When People Experience Change?Jenn DeWall: I love that. And today we’re going to really focus on the resistance that people have to change. And I feel like even just sharing your background of whether it’s changing careers, that there are a lot of people that can get paralyzed by even thinking about doing that, or just the change to, excuse me, the work that we thought that we knew when there’s a merger. I know that I’ve been through a merger and acquisition and oh gosh, that brings up all the feelings. And I’m sure that there are some people right now that are seeing change in the way of the layoffs that have been happening by a lot of big companies is that they’re finding themselves maybe asking, where do I go? Or how do I adapt to this new change with all my friends that are gone? Why do you think leaders need to know how to overcome resistance?

Marina Field: So before I answer that, I wanna step back a little and talk a little bit about like, what happens when people are like, you know, going through change. So change is really about like, you know, doing something different or doing something new and people really enjoy where, what they’re doing now, the status quo, they’re really comfortable with how things are happening now. So when you come around and ask them to change, it becomes uncomfortable.

Like, I don’t know about you, but every day I go to my closet, I look at all the clothes, and then I wear the exact same thing that I’ve worn the week before because it’s comfortable and I know, and I don’t have to think about it. And it’s like routine. And for, you know, you or maybe a listener maybe it’s you, you have the same coffee every day, or you, you know, you have the same lunch or you stop at the same coffee shop. We’re very comfortable. It’s routine. You don’t have to think about it. And when you ha when you, when someone asks you to change, it’s gonna push you outside of your comfort zone. And when you’re pushed outside of your comfort zone, that’s, that’s what might lead to actual resistance because then it becomes like, well, why do I need to change? Like, things are good now, I’m really comfortable. What, what? Like, no, like let’s, let’s stop the train. We need to like, just like leave things the way they are.

Jenn DeWall: Right? Like why, what if I don’t like it? What I’m thinking of even with saying that, because I know that there are many areas that I’m a creature of habit in my comfort zone, and one can even be at a restaurant if I’ve been there before, I will order the exact same thing every time out of fear that I will not like another potential thing, and then I’ll be disappointed with my menu choice.

Marina Field: . Exactly. Exactly.

Why Should Leaders Know How to Overcome Resistance to Change?Jenn DeWall: I, okay, so I love that. Yeah, it’s that fear, the fear asking us to do something different. And I guess if you’re a leader, you likely are like, oh gosh, this is the battle that I’m climbing every single day with some of my team. Why do you think that leaders need to know how to overcome this resistance? Like, what is the value to them? Because I think, yeah, I’ll just, I’ll turn it to you. Why do you think leaders need to know how to overcome this?

Marina Field: So leaders need to be able to overcome resistance because if they don’t address these concerns that employees are raising, the, the change initiative could fail. So when employees are resisting first, you have to understand that they’re going through an emotional reaction. There’s actually a model called the Kuba Ross model that talks about the different emotions that someone might go through as they’re going through change. So it could start off with just being shocked then you’re going to denial. Like, I can’t believe this is actually happening to me. So thinking about like, you know, again, those, those layoffs you go, you might get into anger, you might go into depression, you go through all these emotional reactions before you potentially could end up as commitment. So leaders need to understand that when they tell someone that, you know, a change is gonna happen.

And if that’s not a change that people are comfortable with, employees are acting, reacting to this from an emotional perspective. And again, they wanna stay in that status quo. They wanna be comfortable. So leaders have to first step back and understand that they need to make sure they’re bringing employees along with the journey and overt in order to overcome that resistance to change. Now resistance might look like a couple of different things.

Marina Field: It could be that employees are just asking a lot of questions. So it could be, you know, again, why do we have to change? What, what’s wrong with the way we’re doing things now? We, we tried this before, if failed, then what’s, why is it gonna be different now? And sometimes those questions might actually be resistance, but some reachers researchers say that, well, maybe they’re just asking those questions because they need to understand what’s actually happening. Especially as a leader, you might have known about this change initiative for months or a year. And so for you, you might not recognize how big of an impact it might have on employees who are just learning about it now.

Leaders Have to Be Ready To Answer the WHYJenn DeWall: Yeah. I feel like there is a lot of that they design the strategy in a vacuum. Yeah. Without understanding the emotional component, that’s going to happen. As you bring that change going forward, where do you see leaders, you know, getting this wrong? Is it strictly their not understanding that it’s emotional? Is it that we think that we can just tell them what to do? I guess I even relate to what you had just shared about asking questions because that’s one of the ways that I process things I, you know, need to understand. And so I’ll ask questions. And when I ask them, I never think it’s a sign of being resistant so much as I think it is the way that I’m trying to process and understand the why. Right. But I’ve absolutely had my hands slapped throughout my career of being like, do not ask me questions. You are trying to undermine my authority. And then that makes me a little. I feel like a bad person because I ask questions, even though that’s just the way that I process information.

Marina Field: Exactly. I imagine that you’re a leader and you have to get this initiative, so you’re getting pressure to put, put, put this initiative through. You’re telling people, okay, this is where we’re going, this is what we’re doing. And then you’re bombarded by all these questions and you might not have the answers to these questions because the change hasn’t happened yet, or everything isn’t figured out. You don’t have the answers. So you, you’re, you’re feeling stressed out because people are bombarding with questions. You don’t know how to like, what to tell them. And so you start getting frustrated, you start getting stressed out as a leader because you know, you’re getting all these questions thrown at you and you don’t know what to do and you don’t necessarily know how to act. So that’s one re that’s one way that leaders sometimes can go astray because they haven’t taken time to think through how they’re gonna address some of the questions or even to be comfortable with saying, we don’t know yet.

Don’t Forget to Get Employee Input About the ChangeMarina Field: We’ll get back to you. We’re still figuring things out because sometimes leaders don’t feel comfortable saying that they don’t know. The other thing that, other path that leaders take sometimes that makes things challenging for them is they make unilateral decisions. So it’s like, we’re gonna make this change and they don’t take the time to get the voice of the employee involved in, in helping to make that change. So it’s just they make this, so an example here would be, you know, some of the companies are saying, okay pandemic’s over everyone get back to the office. And they’re seeing a lot of resistance from people saying, no, I’m good. I, I wanna work hybrid, or I wanna work remote. And you know, you see this like push and pull from leaders saying, no, you have to come back and, and employees saying, no, I wanna stay hybrid or I wanna stay remote. So just making these unilateral decisions without getting participation from employees is another way that leaders can, can change to make things more effective.

Jenn DeWall: I mean, I relate to that one esp especially because I’ve just been hearing so much more, I guess, stories of companies that are saying, well, I, fun time is over. It’s time to get back to the office. Mm-Hmm. , you need to come in. And people are asking why. And especially within some of the organizations where they actually are fully, you know, by nature of the last few years, they’ve likely hired in different areas where they don’t have in-person offices. And so it doesn’t even, I guess I, it makes sense to me why it doesn’t make sense to them to say, but all these other people still work remote and they get a pass and then I have to come in and it’s not, you know, I I love that you bring that one up because I think that there’s so many missing pieces, especially as it relates to that and what they’re considering. What’s the expectation that’s been set? What like what are you trying to, I guess, enforce or what’s the why? Because I think a lot of people don’t understand it beyond, you just want us back in the office for x, y, Z reasons. And they don’t necessarily see how it might benefit them. Where else might leaders get it wrong?

Marina Field: I, again, I think it goes back, so exactly what you said, leaders are not explaining why, why do you need to do this? So if leaders tick some time, time to explain the purpose and why they’re, this change is being made that would go a long way to addressing some of the concerns of employees. I think, again, like some, some researchers talk about the fact that when you’re, when you’re seeing resistance from organization, from employees within your organization, you have to think about why am I viewing this as resistance? So it goes back to what you were saying before, like you’re asking questions cuz you’re trying to understand, but you got your hand slapped because the person who’s listening didn’t perceive the question the same way you were perceiving as, I’m just trying to understand. So maybe it’s resistance, but maybe someone’s just asking a question. So, you know, take some time to think like, okay, I got a lot of questions. Is this really resistant or do I need to communicate about this a little bit more? So again, that’s another area where leaders, you know, might get things a little bit wrong in terms of how they’re interpreting employees’ reactions.

Jenn DeWall: I love that one, just the mindset. Mm-Hmm. of embracing or giving people permission to ask questions As it relates to change. I mean, you said you shared earlier that it’s emotional, so why not give people emotional support to ask questions, to be able to weather it? I mean it seems it’s all of this can sometimes seem so obvious, but yet, you know, when I think about the work climate today, is it, are we missing these things because we just don’t know, are we missing these things because we’re going too fast? I, you know, what do you think are some of the reasons that leaders aren’t taking the time to reframe their mindset or aren’t taking the time to think through some of this?

To Overcome Resistance to Change – SLOW DOWNMarina Field: We’re living in an environment that is so fast paced. It’s like, go, go, go, go, go. We need to get things done very quickly. And organizations don’t always take the time to create a change management plan. It’s like, we ha we don’t have time to do that. We just need to push it out. And when you take that stance, it takes you longer or your change initiative ends up failing because you didn’t slow down and do things properly.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. It’s slowing down to speed up. That’s one of my favorite expressions for leadership. So when you think about why people resist change, is it predominantly just an emotional component? Are there any specifics within it that can be a little bit more triggering for people or why they might resist the change in the beginning?

Marina Field: So people, when, when people are faced with change, they’re really thinking about how is this gonna impact me? And so outside of emotions it might be, you know, am I gonna lose my job? You know, do I have to go back into the office? How is this gonna impact my life and how I go about doing things? And if they perceive it as being something negative, then they’re going to resist. Or even just like I under, you know, the process that we’re using now I understand how to do that process, I can do it with my eyes closed and now you’re asking me to change the process when I, I think this process is better, even when a new and change initiative might make the employee’s life better because it’s new and it’s different. It’s just kind of like what you, you were saying, but I’ve already tried this food, I know it’s good. You’re asking me to try something different. What if I don’t like it? what happens then?

Jenn DeWall: I just laugh every time. Like, I think my, my husband would absolutely be like, Jenn, can you just try one different thing? one different thing. I, I just, you know, it’s that fear. But I know in the pre-call we had also kind of talked about transitions that, you know, and the difficulty that many of us face when we are doing transitions. I know we just gave the a more fun example. It’s not that difficult. I mean, I could try a different food, but the stakes aren’t even that high, right? Like cost of me not trying a different food isn’t that high. But let’s talk about change as it relates to transitions and why people really can struggle with the concept of change.

Why People Resist ChangeMarina Field: Sure. So when you think about a change, so a change is just like I can just let’s say I’m doing a systems implementation. So one day I turn the, I flip the switch and the changes happen. It doesn’t take that long for the change to actually happen, but the transition is actually a lot longer. So the transition is the part of the process that organizations really need to think about and work on to make sure, again, that they’re bringing employees along along the way so they understand like why we’re turning on the switch, when we’re turning on the switch, what’s gonna happen after we turn off the turn on the switch so that employees can go through that transition process. It addresses the emotions that they’re going through, it addresses the concerns that they’re going through and that helps bring them along and get them more committed to the change.

Jenn DeWall: Gosh, and I can’t even, I even think about this from, you know, that coaching perspective, and I’m sure you see this with your clients too, is that sometimes when we want the change, we have the illusion that the transition is going to be so fun or so great. When I get that new job, when I move to that new city, when I insert what, and I think people are really caught off guard that they’re brain, they’re body, their feelings might actually be resisting that transition that, you know, as much as it’s fun, there’s often a point when you move somewhere and you’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t know anyone. Or you get that new job and you’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t know what I’m doing. And so transitions, I think feel can be, as it relates to change, I feel like we don’t realize the emotions that are going to come outside of enthusiasm for, you know, a self-directed change versus obviously the other emotions that can come when that change was more forced on you, I don’t know, do you see that a lot with your clients that like, it’s so excited for that next career, the next promotion and then they’re in it and they’re like, why did I want this?

Marina Field: Exactly. I see that and, but I see it in terms of, you know, they get, it’s like as it gets closer, as the opportunity gets closer, their fear goes up. It’s like, I want this, but I’m also scared of it.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, I want it, but what, what’s gonna happen to me? And is that that like, I mean mean I don’t know how you see it? And this is more of a curiosity question when we go through transitions, do you think it’s more or less that we just don’t realize how much our, of our identity was attributed to the past city or the past job that we don’t realize that we’re walking away from who we thought we knew? I don’t know, maybe that’s getting too meta, but I know that your background might be able to better that question. That’s just kind of the, the hunch that I feel like I always get is that people don’t realize you’re walking away from an identity when you’re doing these, these, even if they’re exciting changes, you’re walking away from the person that you knew to become the next version of yourself.

How Fear of the Unknown Causes ResistanceMarina Field: No, that can be you’re, you’re right on target. That can be a huge reason why people have challenges with managing change or going through transitions. Going back to like, let’s say an organizational example, if I’ve identified with my business unit and I’ve been working there for 20 years and now you’re telling me because of a merger, my business unit is as going to be disbanded, then who am I? Who am I in this organization? What does it mean? Like for 20 years I’ve been doing this, you know, I’ve been coming here, I’ve said that I’m a member of this business unit and now it’s gonna go away and I don’t. And because it’s you know, because it’s a change, I might not have answers about what I will be in the future. And again, that can be really scary on a personal level, as you said as well, if I’m going through a career change and I’ve had this identity, you know, I’ve worked at, you know, XCOR X corporation for this many years and now I’m gonna go to a different industry, I don’t, you know, I don’t have the connections, I don’t know the people I’ve gotta start from scratch.

Marina Field: You know, that’s gonna, your, your identity can be impacted and it can be really hard.

Jenn DeWall: Gosh, I just feel like I wish I could tell everyone that, like when they send their resignation letter to say, okay, when you go into this new job, just know that you might, you’re gonna have a little bit or a day that you’re going to feel unnerved by this and that’s totally fine. You still made the right choice. I wish that everyone could get that disclaimer because I don’t think even my neighbor who is 50, he’s 50 and he spent his last 14 years at a career and I was just asking him how it was going and he is like, it’s been tough. I’m like, just remember like transitions are really hard. And he was like, thank you for saying that to me because I was starting to feel like I made the wrong choice . But I think we don’t realize it cuz we get caught up in the like excitement of it. Yes. Of it that we just don’t.

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How Can Organizations Do a Better Job at Managing Change?Jenn DeWall: So, bringing it back to the organization. I love talking to a change in general because of it. Whether it’s like how we show up as individuals and making changes in our lives or whether, you know, coming into the workplace because I feel like there are so many ways that organizations like I scratch my head at how they, you know, the return to work request, like the ill thought out like there are totally valid reasons to bring people back into the office. I absolutely get that, but it’s also, you don’t get to do it because that’s what happened before the pandemic. Like that’s no longer the logic that’s gonna get them back in, that’s actually gonna get them right into LinkedIn looking for their next job and you wanna keep them so at least include them in the dialogue. But now let’s go into kind of that solution piece. Like how, like what are ways that a leader or an AGA organization can better anticipate or overcome resistance to change?

View Resistance to Change as Valuable FeedbackMarina Field: So again, it goes back to first understanding why you are viewing these behaviors as resistance? The second question that some researchers suggest that you ask yourself is, how can I use this resistance? Or how can I view this resistance as feedback that’s gonna help me support the change initiative? So those are two questions that you can ask yourself. Another thing that you can do as a leader, and we’ve kind of hinted at this and talked a little bit about this, is make sure that you’re telling people why this is happening. So instead of just saying you’re going back to the office, talk about why like, we want you back in the office because, you know, people like to socialize at work and when you socialize, you make better connections, things are more efficient when we work that or whatever reason you have, but explain your why for why this change is actually happening because that will address some of the questions and concerns people have. Another thing is to talk about what the future’s gonna look like. So what is your vision for what’s gonna happen once this change initiative has been implemented? So what are things gonna look like? What are things gonna feel like? So again, these are, these are things that these are types of things that employees are gonna wanna know, and they’re gonna wanna understand.

Jenn DeWall: Now is this, oh sorry, go ahead. Like as it relates to the vision for the future, like, cuz I feel like sometimes that vision has probably set really beautifully in a strategy session, right? They had, you know, they, they spend a lot of hours doing it and then as that’s going through the organization and going down the layers, that vision might get lost. I don’t know if you, you have any insights on how to preserve the vision that was initially kind of created? Because again, what I think of, and I’ve shared this on the podcast before is when I was in my twenties I was asked to do this new process as an analyst that was going to require a lot of work and I insert the eye roll that I had with my 24 year old ego self, right?

Jenn DeWall: Insert like how I was initially like why are you asking me to do this? And my boss at the time like couldn’t really give me it as, as outside of like, that’s what everyone has to do now. And then when I listened to the quarterly earnings call and heard our CEO explaining that in our new strategy to Wall Street, it made sense. But my question then coming back to it is, is that what I have to do to understand our organizational strategy now is that I have to listen to the quarterly earnings calls or should that also be a part of every level of the organization to understand what the vision is that we’re working towards, especially the ones that are managing employees that have to make these changes.

Communicate, Communicate, Communicate!Marina Field: You’re exactly on target again. So two things like, you know, cuz clearly in that instance it, the change wasn’t handled properly in terms of communicating what that vision is. You need when you’re doing, going through a change initiative in terms of like the why, the purpose, the vision, anything related to the change initiative, you need to communicate, you need to communicate, communicate, communicate. You need to use different channels. You know, because people don’t read their emails , you know, so it, it needs to be like emails needs to be posters. You need to leverage your managers, you need to have meetings, you need to use as many different, especially depending on how large the change initiatives. You need to use as many communication as ch channels as possible. You need to communicate frequently you need to make sure that people understand what it is that you’re trying to say.

You can test for that. You can send out many surveys to see are people getting the message and are they getting, are they understanding the message in the way that you want? But people think like, oh I, I did, I sent out an email, I sent a couple things you need, even if you’ve thought you’ve spoken about it till you’re blue in the face, you need to keep on talking because people are aren’t always gonna get the message. So that’s one, one way to address that situation.

Identify Key Stakeholders and Create a Change NetworkMarina Field: The second way is when you’re doing a change initiative is you need to identify who are your key stakeholders and that’s something you should do very early on. And make sure that you are in communication with them and you involve them in the change effort. This could also be an opportunity for you to involve the people that are actually resisting the effort and have them involved and get their buy-in because then they can turn around and help be the supporters of the change initiative if you can get them to the right level of support.

But having those stakeholders and understanding their level of influence within the organization, they can help spread the word and help spread the vision. One of the things that we used to do when I was a consultant is we would create these change networks and we would identify influencers within the organization and we would send messages down to that change net network and ask them to distribute it between you know, their networks. But we’d also, the, the communication channel worked both ways. So we would ask them what are they hearing and they would send that information back to us so we could kind of get a pulse what was happening in the organization and what people were saying about the change initiative. So we could see like, okay, are people understanding what are people saying about the change effort? Do we need to create communications to address what’s actually being talked about in the organization?

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that one. But that does, okay, you were consultants, you saw this in real time. What happens when, I’m just curious because you likely have to have a very like growth mindset to be able to open up that feedback loop into it. And so how did you maybe help some of those leaders that were going to then get that be like, it’s okay that they don’t like the change. Like I don’t have to get mad or frustrated at them. Like, I can take this as open and you know, I appreciate that feedback. I’m curious because I’m, I’m guessing you likely sometimes heard cuz it happens all the time, right? Where people are like, I had no idea the employees were gonna feel like that. And then you find it out, but then sometimes you’re like, well I don’t care anyways so I’m gonna still have them do that.

Not to say that’s where leaders are today, but I love that you gave that opportunity to create feedback loops because I think that sometimes with change I can, I’ve worked at organizations where it’s like, well I still said to do this so I cool, I’m glad that you don’t like it, but I don’t care . So how did they respond if it was something where they like, hey we, would they create an additional communication strategy or how would they respond if they got, maybe because let’s be honest, it wasn’t probably like met with, oh I love this. Like, so how did they respond to that pushback?

Use Negative Feedback to Inform Your Communication StrategyMarina Field: I mean, sometimes you hear like, well the data’s wrong, , like, you know what, what you’re hearing, no, they, they don’t know what they’re talking about. And, and so that was definitely a delicate situations where you have to sit down and explain like, no, it’s not that the data’s wrong, these are the concerns that people have and if you don’t address them, it’s going to impact the change initiative. So let’s have a conversation and you know, let’s get our people on the ground and like, let’s get you face-to-face in meetings. If you don’t believe it, why don’t we get a group of people so you can have a one-on-one conversation or have a group conversation so you can hear it for yourself or you know, things like that. But making sure that people understood like, okay, we can’t ignore this information. We have it and we have to address the concerns, so let’s do some more communication. Let’s cha let’s see, like why our current messaging may not be connecting with people or how are we not addressing the concerns of employees and what can we do to actually address them?

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I feel like I’m thinking so much now more about the role of bias that can come into play of confirmation bias and people saying, well I don’t wanna hear that people don’t like this. And so what level, I don’t know if you have any like, guidance of like do you handle, like do you go before the changes out and kind of like start to float the idea to understand the types of resistance people can have so you can communicate that before you get everyone on board? Or is it more of a, as these things come up then we’ll send an email that’s answering this. Like do they do town halls or is there kind of any best practices that you would recommend for how they can start to understand the resistance that they’re going to get and then get ahead of it instead of waiting for it and then, you know, not having a strategy for it.

Marina Field: So this goes back to the importance of your, of identifying who your key stakeholders are. Cuz your key stakeholders could be, let’s say for example you’re, you’re rolling out a change initiative and you’re gonna need a lot of money. So the, you might need to have the CFO as the key stakeholder and making sure that they’re on board and they have an understanding and having a conversation with them to find out, okay, where, what are your concerns about this project? And making sure you address those, those concerns. Or maybe your change initiative is a process and maybe it’s at very low level of your organization where someone has a wrench that they have to you know or maybe a hammer that they’re nail, you know, they have to hammer in a nail and you’re gonna ask them to not use a hammer anymore, but use some other type of equipment and they, if, if they don’t use this new equipment, it can completely screw up everything.

So you have to make sure that you talk to that person and make sure that they, you understand what their concerns are and address their concerns. So it’s really about understanding who your key stakeholders are and having conversations with them and understanding their concerns so it doesn’t have to, that can happen before you do like your big launch, like this change is happening. So identifying those key stakeholders first, understanding their concerns and then creating communications that you can then later use down the road. Because if they have those concerns, then other employees are gonna have their concerns as those concerns as well.

Jenn DeWall: Right. And it’s just gonna become the meeting after the meeting if you don’t address that . Right, which I mean, cuz that’s, what is that I, I forget what is the, like what the number one reason is that change efforts fail? Is it because we don’t give the why or we don’t communicate it where people are like, I don’t understand this. I mean I, you know, I know there’s a lot of factors or I feel like change efforts fail because I’ve worked at organizations that set strategy after strategy after strategy and they never follow through on them. So none of them seem like a priority. And then I guess I’ve taken the, the path of self-preservation, of being like, I’m not gonna do this change because you’re not gonna stick with it.

Try a Closure Party to Overcome Resistance and Celebrate ChangeMarina Field: Exactly. . And, and, and so it’s really important for organization, for, for leaders to distinguish what is different about this change, why is this one going to succeed versus all the other ones that may not have succeeded in the past. And sometimes, you know, this goes back to the identity question or the identity conversation we’re having earlier. Sometimes you have to separate things out. Maybe you have a closure ceremony and you say like, okay, we’re today we’re getting together to celebrate like our previous successes and what we did in the past. And also to talk about like in to, to celebrate the new, the start of a, of a new way of doing things and start, you know, so like have an actual party or an actual meeting where you formally acknowledge the past and talk about the future.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love a closure party. I have never heard of that. And what a great way to get people like, we’re all here today, today to say, you know, goodbye to this and like know that we all get it, we all love this, but we’re so excited for what’s coming. And just feel like it’s like a pr campaign for your for your change to do a closure party. I love that idea. And it makes it feel more, we’re all talking about this, we are all gathered here today to either mourn this loss or talk about an exciting new future. I don’t I’ve never been a part of a closure party and I love that idea.

Marina Field: one of, so, so in addition to closure parties I, so I don’t have an example of a the example I have is not of a closure party, but it’s more of you know, a new beginning party when I was part of a employee that was part of a merger. They talked about NewCo for weeks on end and we got emails that were teasing like, you know, it’s, you know, countdown to day one, you know, this many days to day one. And then there were parties all over the country to celebrate the joining of the two organizations. So I’m based in New York City and all of the New York City employees went to Central Park and there were balloons and activities and parties and it was, it made everyone really excited to be part of this new organization and it signaled that we are no longer part of this old organization. You can leave that identity behind. We’re now part of this new organization.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that one. Never heard of either of these closure or new beginning, but I wonder if, because I, I am sure I’ve seen a lot or heard through a lot of students, participants and being through like a merger myself, just watching how much fear is created when the merger, when the word merger and acquisition is thrown out. And I feel like a new beginnings party is a really nice way to be able to soften the fear to make it seem like it is actually something to be excited about instead of something to fear and be nervous and start, you know, job searching or to try and get away from.

Marina Field: Yeah, I mean, I can tell you from my own experience, we had so much pride in being part of this new organization because they were able to generate so much excitement about this new organization.

Jenn DeWall: My gosh. So anyone that’s potentially going through a merger or acquisition, you might know it, some people might be in part of those conversations, you might want to also add in a new beginnings party or a closure party to be able to help that transition and to help soften the fear response that will happen within your organization. Marina, I have really enjoyed our conversation today. I even those last, I love those last two cause I’ve just never heard those concepts before either. But like, why don’t companies do that? Why don’t we have new beginnings or closure parties as it relates to change instead of just sending out an email. Like, I love those ideas of getting people, like using the emotions to feel the progress. Thank you so much. And before we go, hey, if you wanted to share anything else on change, happy to hear it, but also I want to know or how can our audience get in touch with you?

Where to Find More from Marina FieldMarina Field: Sure. I love connecting with people and you can find me on LinkedIn and it’s linkedin.com/Marina field.

Jenn DeWall: Perfect. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Marina,

Marina Field: Thank you for having me.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode with Marina Fields. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. And if you wanna connect with her, you can head on over to linkedin.com and there you can look for Marina Field and link up that way, or you can connect by going to her website, NorthStarWorkforceSolutions.com. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please share it with a friend. Or if you want to learn more about how you can develop your leadership skillset or the leadership skillset of those on your team, head on over to crescom.com. There you can request a two hour complimentary leadership skills workshop. Until next time.

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Find Enlightened Leadership with Leader, Author & Innovator, Rajeev KapurHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Rajeev Kapur to discuss how to chase greatness. Now let me tell you a little bit more about Rajeev. Over his career, Rajeev has been a part of the leadership team at Dell, where he built a $1 billion-plus business in the US and managed Dell’s, China and South Asia businesses.

Today, he was the CEO of 1105 Media, a leading media and marketing services company, in 2021. In 2022, Rajeev was a finalist for entrepreneur and innovator of the year from the Orange County Business Journal. He is a YPO (Young Presidents’ Organization) member and received his MBA from the USC Marshall School of Business. In 2021, Rajeev became a best-selling author when his new leadership book, Chase Greatness, became the most downloaded leadership book on Amazon in November and December. He is an accomplished keynote speaker and executive coach for companies like AT&T and Amazon, and I hope you enjoy our conversation as we talk about his newest book, Chase Greatness.

Meet Rajeev Kapur, CEO of 1105 MediaJenn DeWall: Rajeev, thank you so much for joining us on this show today. I am excited to talk about your new book. Hey, I think we could all learn a thing or two about what it takes to chase greatness. And I just want to start by saying thank you so much for donating your time. I know you are busy, but thank you for making time for the Leadership Habit audience. We are so grateful to have you on the show.

Rajeev Kapur: Oh, it’s, it’s my pleasure. So excited to be here with you guys. You know, you guys have just an amazing reputation, and I’m just glad I could be here and hopefully provide some good value.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely, I know you will. Well, I always love, and I know that every podcast starts this way, but I love a great origin story. So Rajeev, could you go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience? Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how you came to be where you are now, as well as your new book that we’re gonna be talking about today.

Rajeev’s Path to Enlightened LeadershipRajeev Kapur: Yeah, you know, it’s funny, people always ask me about my origin story, and I always think about something funny to talk about, like, you know, He came from another planet or whatever, right? But I, I wish I had something really exciting like that, but I don’t. But I’m just a Southern California boy, born and bred, you know, I was born and raised in Southern California in the LA area and you know, kind of lived a normal life in the, in the San Fernando Valley in the eighties. And so I was a valley dude. So the kids that watched Cobra Kai today, I’m like, Hey, I was the karate kid age back then, right? , so,

So it’s like, you know, I’m watching that show, it’s like my kids are like, Hey, you’re Daniel La Russo, Dad I’m like, yeah, I guess so. So anyway, so, but that’s kind of where I got the start. And then, you know, I did my undergrad out here in Southern California. I did my master out here. And then I think the big kind of step for me, and one of the biggest, one of the biggest lessons I learned early in my career was you have to go to the job. And so for me, it was back in 91, the economy was a little bit of a challenge down here in Southern California at the time. And I got a job working for an old computer company called Gateway 2000, which I’m sure not many people remember. And so I think we had a gateway computer. Yeah, it was the cow spotted boxes and everything.

And so, but you know, but the headquarters for game was in South Dakota, Sioux City, South Dakota. And so I went from being a southern California boy and I actually had to move to Sioux City, Iowa. There’s a tri-state area. So, cause you lived in Iowa and you drove in South Dakota every day. And so I did that for a couple years. Finally, it was like 56 degrees below zero one day with the wind chill factor. It is really bad, really challenging. And so I decided that, hey, you know what, this wasn’t for me.

From Michael Dell’s Assistant to General Manager of South Asia & IndiaRajeev Kapur: And after a couple years I got recruited to Dell,and went to Dell and started off on the phones and after about six or seven months being on the phones, I got an opportunity to work for Michael Dell, first executive assistant for a little while. And that was really exciting and that really helped propel my career.

At Dell worked my way up there, eventually ran the west coast for Dell to grew that to a huge business, like a billion dollar plus business. And then, you know after after a few years of doing that, I had moved back to Southern California. Because I was spending all my time out here and I was married and preferred to be on the West Coast. And you know, Michael called one day and said, Rajeev, we’d really like you to go to China. So in 2000 packed up and went to China and went to kind of like that Beijing area for a while. And then ended up back and forth between the Dell factory and Shaman. And then there was some other challenges being in China back at that time. So ended up transferring into the Hong Kong office so it would be easier for me to fly back and forth.

And it was much easier to my wife cause we were pregnant at the time. So we did that for a couple years and built that up. And that was exciting to be there at the early days of Dell China. And then was asked to go run a big part of South Asia. So I eventually became general manager and of South and BP general manager, the South Asia market, and launch Dell, India and all these other cool countries. And that was an exciting time and an absolute amazing opportunity. And then, you know, I decided to move back to Southern California. Our second son was born in Singapore, wasn’t seeing the family much. And so made that choice to spend more time with family and, you know, became a bit more entrepreneurial. I went to a really small e-commerce company, did well there, then went to a startup, anddid well there.

And then went to another kind of sort of VC-funded company. Did, don’t, you know, that that went pretty good. And now for the last eight plus years I’ve been running a B2B marketing and media services company called 1105 Media and 1105 doesn’t have any meeting or anything. Like, that’s just what it, and so anyways, I’ve been doing that. And in the meantime, you know, I became an author. I sold my first movie script, just finished my second one. I’m a huge sports fan, big Laker fan. I went to the LeBron game the other night where he, when he went, I was there. And that was exciting. So that was really happy. That was cool. I took my son, cause it’s his birthday today, he turned 22 and so that was kinda birthday present for him. So yeah, about me I’m excited to here and CEO companies.

I’ve had three exits and I mean that smaller, small business was called Smart Home. We got the award for the best place to work here in Orange County. Actually. Lucky enough to get that award twice, you know. So again, you know, I could go on and on and on, but it’s really a testament to the teams I’ve had the pleasure of leading. And I’m really passionate about leadership and the future of leadership and I think it has to change. I think there’s an absolute ton of disruption coming not just in the workforce, but technologically as well. I think we’ve seen that over the last couple of weeks with chat GPT and these other technologies that are coming. I think there’s massive disruption coming and I don’t think current leadership, current CEOs are ready. And so that’s what I’m trying to pontificate, that you have to get ready. And I call it, and I call it enlightened leadership is what people have to embrace.

How Should Leaders Be Preparing for Leading in the Future?Jenn DeWall: I love that. Well, you’ve shared a lot and obviously you were at Dell likely, I’m guessing. Not that we’re gonna give the years during a period of massive growth. And I mean, I think that, I remember the period even 20 years ago, like Dell was, I, I just remember it, it was everywhere and it was everything. Like what an exciting time to be with the organization. And then of course to witness LeBron, I mean, you, I love the, not only the, of course global experience that you’ve had so many different organizations, so many different leadership roles, and I really appreciate you because I know that you have so much value in insights and talking about enlightened leadership. So diving into what the future of work looks like, and I know we’re going to talk about your book, Chase Greatness. From your perspective, what do you think needs to happen or what do we need to be prepared for as it relates to leading in the future?

Rajeev Kapur: You know, so that’s a great question. So I think at the end of the day, there are two big things that are gonna be happening over the course of the next, let’s say 24 to 30 months. And we, we can go plus or minus on that. Okay? The first one is, is that you’re gonna see a lot more boomers retiring from the workforce, number one. And you’re gonna see a lot more Gen Z and Millennials moving into the workforce, right? Millennials are already here, Gen Zers are gonna be coming in. You think about, you know, the kids who are like, who are kind of just, who are now 20 years old in the next couple years, they’re gonna be 23 years old, and so they’re gonna be graduating from college. And so you’re gonna see this massive shift. And what’s, what’s happening in that, what’s happening in that is a couple things.

Rise of the JEDI Leader: Justice, Environment, Diversity, InclusionRajeev Kapur: Number one is, according to the statistics, women for the first time will be the majority of the workforce in the US. And I don’t mean it’s like 60 40, it’s probably, it’s, it’s a little, it’s like 51-49, so it’s like right there. But they’re gonna be the majority for the first time ever. So, because most boomers in the workforce were mostly right. So when, when that that goes out, then you have this kind of mix that’s coming in. And so that, that’s where you’re seeing that uptick of, of female representation, which I think is awesome, right? So that’s number one. Number two is what’s happening is as this group comes into the workforce, they’re, they have a much more, you know, activist kind of base mentality. You know, they’re much more into what I call the Jedi, which stands for justice, environment, diversity, inclusion.

And you might say, rich Chief, well that doesn’t mean crap when I’m running a business. And, and I agree that when you think of it, that when you think of in a non-traditional way, you’re right, you know, or, or a traditional way, you’re right. It really doesn’t, right? How somebody thinks outside the walls, the business really shouldn’t matter how you treat them inside the business, right? You try to treat everybody with respect, treat them well, but what’s happening is, and you’ve seen this, and I’m sure you’re organization’s seen this and you know, the, the, the organization, the people that you guys support has seen this, is that you’ve got this great resignation happening, quiet, quitting, which to me is ridiculous because all that’s saying is, Hey, I’m doing my job. You’re not asking me to do more, so you’re not paying me for more, so I’m not doing it.

So whatever. So that, so that whole term is kinda ridiculous in my opinion. But regardless with what you’re seeing though, is the, the, this group that that’s coming in is saying, Hey, you know, I want to find a company that has purpose. I wanna find a company that has a passion that’s not just solely focused on the bottom line. And, you know, obviously capitalism, and I’m a capitalism sole, three companies, so I get it right. But here’s the thing, McKinsey has said that if you do focus on purpose, passion, taking care of the employees, if you, if you focus on building an amazing culture, if you focus on treating your, your employees as an internal customer, then you’re gonna actually improve your bottom line because you’re gonna have less turnover. You’re gonna promote from within, you know, people are gonna deal with you longer. So this is a whole domino effect of doing that, and that leads to a much better bottom line, right?

Deloitte came out and said, they did a survey a few years ago that said, they asked all these CEOs, what percent of you, what percent of you believe that culture is important? Well, 90% said, raised their hands and culture is the most important thing, but only 10% actually ever did anything about it. And I’m here to say that culture’s really gonna matter now for future, because you can remark, you can work anywhere in the world and still get your job done. Like I can run 95% of my company on my smartphone, right? The only thing I really don’t do on my smartphone is I don’t do my board meetings on my smartphone, I don’t do my management staff meetings, right? But even those I do on the laptop, and I can do those sitting in the malls, I can do them sitting here and my office here in Southern California, right?

The First Step to Enlightened LeadershipRajeev Kapur: So, but my point is that, so work is getting remote. I know people wanna go back in the offices and to some cases that’s important. And I think, so a hybrid work environment is probably what’s gonna win the day. But you have all these things that are coming and you have this employee set that is saying, Hey Jenn, we really wanna be with you because you have a passion and a purpose, and we’ll stay with you if you can demonstrate that. And that to me is the first step of enlightened leadership and enlightened leadership take the foundation of servant leadership that we all kind of grew up with and says, Hey Jenn, not only am I here to help you be successful in your job, I’m also gonna do whatever I can to help support you outside the walls of the business. An example of that here at 1105, what I did was we give everybody now a paid day off to go vote.

Not many companies do that. So we pay for that. So that something doesn’t, so if you’re not happy with a decision that’s being made in, in government or politics, whatever, it’s great. We’re gonna ask you, I’m gonna say, look, I’m gonna pay, I’m gonna give you a day off. Don’t worry about your paycheck. I’ve got it covered and you go out there and do this. So that’s just a small example, right? That’s, you know, and so we donate money to nonprofits charities last year, we gave the last 14 months, we’ve given about $50,000 to support nonprofits and, and charities throughout the country for whether it’s funding, scholarships for underprivileged girls who wanna go to college that are in high school on the border- that sit on the Arizona Mexico border in the Nogales, Arizona to Operation Smile to Rainbow Services. So, so we’re doing those types of things. Try to try to make sure our employees understand that we wanna do what we can to, to, to really help you know, their communities be better. And that, to me is enlightened leadership.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, I love that. And yes, it’s, I mean, would you say that enlightened leadership is because the biggest thing, you know, for me as a millennial is also that need to be treated as a human, as not, you know, as a product of the bottom line, not just a means to an end. It’s part of feeling like, yeah, you actually care about me, that I’m not just someone that’s, you know, disposable, I, what’s your take on that and that shift in talking about mental health in the workplace?

Rajeev Kapur: Yeah, that’s a great point because look, you know, when you get on an airplane, you know, the flight attendant says, Hey, in case of turbulence, mask is gonna fall from the ceiling. And the first thing they say is, put on your own mask, right? Before you help the other person sitting next to you. And as a CEO, as a leader of a team or a business or whatever it might be, is, you know, they, they’re your team, right? You gotta help put on their mask first before you can worry about your external customer. So that’s why I’m saying focus on your internal customer first. Put on their own mask first. That might mean helping them with mental wellness days off, you know, having a couple of those in, in their pockets so they can go do that so they don’t have to worry about being stressed out, you know, and finding in exciting, encouraging ways, you know, to, to make sure that they take their vacations.

Getting Comfortable with Not Having all the AnswersRajeev Kapur: Because a lot of people don’t take their vacations, right? It’s, and this is not all about, like, you know, you hear about the tech companies and a lot of these portrait articles, wait, I’m gonna give you free lunches and cokes and candies and all these things. That’s not what this is about. But what people want at the end of the day is they wanna know they can go to work, that they have really, that they have a boss that’s grateful, that they have people who are fully resilient, that they have the ability for people to have empathy. And the empathy thing is really important because when I was growing up in the eighties and nineties when I was gonna, when when I was working at Dell, I remember my mentor would say, if you’re ever gonna go talk to your boss, you gotta go with three solutions.

And I totally got that right. That made a lot of sense. Because you’re not waste somebody’s time, they’re busy, right? But when Covid hit, I realized that that was ridiculous because no one had a solution for Covid, right? No one knew what to do. But I was a CEO for a reason. And I, I think myself, you know, if people don’t come to me with ideas and like, we have to right now throw as much spaghetti on the wall that, that they’re gonna just clam up or they’re not gonna come to me. Cause they don’t have any solutions for Covid. So I, I immediately went to them and say, look, don’t worry about it. If you don’t have solutions, we’re gonna talk about everything. And that really changed my mindset in terms of how I led. And I let people know, look, if you, because my job, I realize that, look, if I’m sitting as a ceo, I worked really hard to get where I am.

Rajeev Kapur: I have experiences that they can learn from, right? Right. And if they’re stuck, my job should be, Hey Jenn, let me help you get unstuck. Thanks. Let’s go for a walk and let’s throw some spaghetti on a wall together. Right? Maybe you just need to talk something through. Maybe you just need someone to talk to, vent, listen to, so come let that be me. You know, I’m happy to do that. So I need that big shift. So, so I started to listening big more, much more empathy, but then having a lot more accountability, but then really increasing the communication to have that transparency, right? So those were the key five attributes that really were important to me. As you look at enlightened leadership and, and as we led our way through Covid.

What Was the Inspiration for Your Book, Chase Greatness?Jenn DeWall: Well, and I love that. And so this is the great segue into your book that you recently wrote, Chase Greatness. What inspired you? Was it the pandemic that kind of made that shift in seeing like, we’ve gotta change? Or what was the inspiration? Was it, was it the pandemic? Was it just noticing, you know, some of the stuff is just not working anymore? What made you want to bring this book to reality or to real life?

Rajeev Kapur: Yeah, no, so the great question. So there’s actually a couple things. So, so when Covid hit my company, look, we were doing really well. We were growing, we were doing this, you know, and all of a sudden we slammed into a wall when Covid hit because little over half my business was face to face events. And so we were no different than going to a concert or going to a movie. You know, everything was closed. We were closed. I mean, that revenue was gone. People were not coming, people were afraid. I remember hearing stories about the friends that worked as doctors who were literally writing their wills saying goodbye to their kids as they were going into work, right? So people were, people on my team. They had parents who were doctors or family that were doctors. And, and you see that and you realize you’re such a small, you’re so small in, in the world, the universe, the grand scheme of things in that there are bigger issues out there.

And so, you know, so for me, me ultimately, it was a real mental cathartic thing for me because there’s about a 24 to 40 hour window where I didn’t know what to do. There was no case study for me to go read because there was no case study on how, you handle Covid, right? There was no mentor for me to call because no mentor had ever gone through this, right? So what was I gonna do? So I just kind of decided to take the, the tactic saying, you know what I want, hopefully one day Harvard will write a case study on what we did here at 1105 to navigate this storm. And so that was the mental thing I took. I decided to put on my own mask first, and I realized I needed something to do while I was sitting at home, you know, getting, you know, late at night after having chance to play a walk my dog and do whatever and, you know, and so I said, you know what, you’ve always wanted to write this book, so write the book.

And I had notes everywhere. So I started writing the book, I wrote an outline. I wrote, wrote some chapters and that, and then, you know, as I mentioned to you before, I’m a member of this group called YPO, and I reached out to some YPOers and they hooked me up with a, with a, with a publishing company. And they then helped support me. And you know, it took another year or so to write it and, you know, there you go. But it was real cathartic for me to write it, to get this down because that’s when I started doing my research. I had all this free time, I had all this time to research and realize the workforce is gonna change. You know, the subheading of the book is Enlightened Leadership for the Next Generation of Disruption. And I looked at Covid as a massive disruption, but I also looked at the workforce being disrupted by the fact that you’re gonna have the majority of the workforce’s gonna be Gen Z, millennial, and that group women in the next 24 months.

Workplace Disruption and TransformationRajeev Kapur: Well, this was three years ago I wrote it, but now it’s 24 months. And so I was then, I was talking about how IOT, robotics, even kind of AI type things were gonna be transforming the way people did their jobs. Just the way the first internet transformed the way our parents did their jobs right back in the mid nineties. And so I just kinda opine that was the case. And fast forward now to two months ago and Chat GPT rolls out and they’re now talking about how it’s gonna be as big, if not bigger than when the first internet browser came out. And that’s gonna lead to massive disruption in the workforce. So that’s what I kind of decided to do. That’s why I wrote the book, and I felt like I had something to say. And I, you know, and I really felt like, and, and I’m gonna be very blunt here and honest, that if CEOs are unwilling to change, if leadership teams are unwilling to change to this changing demographic, to the changing world around them of what’s happening with technology, they’re just gonna be left behind and their company’s gonna be outta this period.

Rajeev Kapur: So, so they have two choices to change, understand it’s coming or don’t, and be left behind.

Enlightened Leaders Know You Must Adapt or Be Left BehindJenn DeWall: Right? And I feel, I mean, I’ve read a few different things, you know, adaptive leadership being one of the necessary skills of the future, and learning how to stand in solidarity with uncertainty. That is, you know, we no longer get the same luxury that I’m sure business leaders had 10 years ago or 20 years ago with that stability or the LY trends because everything is changing too fast. And so I love that point of emphasis that you’ve made because I think there are still a lot of people that are struggling with this. It’s a new way of approaching it. And so we naturally see the school of resistors, can we please go back to the way things were and the adopters, the people that are welcoming and, and ready for it? And I think I was probably very ready for all of this disruption because I found, as a newer employee, and I’m a 40 year old millennial, so I’m at the, I guess beginning page of that.

I felt like the workplace didn’t necessarily do a great job. I actually, when I entered the workplace, I actually thought leadership was a joke. I’m like, oh. So everything that I learned, I took Dale Carnegie when I was 18, I had done a lot of different things and I was like, oh, was that just that nice little thing that they teach kids to make them play nice? Because it wasn’t well demonstrated, it was very authoritative. But I love your approach on enlightened leadership to be able to think about that next generation of disruption, because that’s the only thing that’s going to come, even though me as someone that loves stability as all of us, oh gosh, I don’t even know the ways chat, GPT, all the ways that it’s going to disrupt and what that’s going to look like. And I don’t even think they know all the ways that it will disrupt yet. Yeah,

Rajeev Kapur: I mean, it’s just like, if you go back, look at the first browser, no one realized, no one knew what social media was gonna be back in 96. No one knew what e-commerce was gonna be. I still remember being in a meeting when Michael Dell walked in the office and he had this box and it said Mosaic on it, right? And Mosaic was the first browser that eventually became Netscape, which, you know, and he said, I want you guys to figure out how to sell computers on this thing, you know? And that to me is leadership. That to me was a vision, right? And, and so my company, for example, like at, when we did a on last last Wednesday, we did our, our annual recognition event. And in that meeting, I told every every single employee, all hundred 40 million employees are all gonna have to go through training on generative AI, on Chat GPT, and these types of tools, every single one, I don’t care who, they’re everyone.

And sure enough, and you know, now I’ve got employees are are into it. We’re embracing it. We’ve got ideas. You know, this one, I have this one employee who was using an example, almost like as a substitute marketer for her in doing her job. I mean, it was just amazing to see it. But this is, but you see this, right? And that’s today, imagine what this is gonna be like in 2, 3, 4 years, right? So that’s why you’ve got all these Gen Zers who are the most connected group of people in history. They’re the most technologically advanced in history, are coming into the workforce. And they’re gonna embrace this stuff. They’re gonna know all this stuff backwards and forwards, right? It’s kinda like when social media first started, but they say, you wanna learn social, social media? Go hire a young intern, right? So, so now you see what’s coming, right? So it’s coming and it’s coming and that perception is coming. And you have two choices. You can either stand on the track, not change, and get hit by the train, or you could move aside, retool your business, retool your teams, retool the fact, make sure that your IT team, your cio, your CTOs, whoever they might be, are embracing this and pushing this down in an organization or be left behind. I mean, really, you just have two choices. I love that. If you need help, call me. If you need help, call me. Hold on.

Jenn DeWall: , I love that.

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How do Enlightened Leaders Chase Greatness?Jenn DeWall: Let’s talk about it. Okay? For those that are ready and thinking about, okay, I’m ready to embrace a new approach, a new way of leading, let’s talk about what it means to chase greatness. What does it mean to be great? Or what does it mean to chase? Great.

Rajeev Kapur: Yeah. So, so that’s great. I really appreciate that question because I’m gonna go back to, so when I was sitting in my home office when Covid hit, this was about a week after everything was shut down and we made the decision to we’re gonna go for it and we’re gonna fix this company. And we’re, we’re, I’m not gonna let anything happen. We’re gonna, we’re gonna take our big decision, we’re gonna take our pay cuts, we’re gonna the layoff, do everything we needed, right? And I walked into my whiteboard and I asked and wrote, whiteboard, what does it mean to be great?

Whatever, A couple days go by, I’m staring at the whiteboard, where does it, so then I went up to the whiteboard a couple days later and I erased that, and I wrote the word great, you know, vertically, you know, in a g you know, G R E A T. And then I wrote Gratitude, Resilience, Empathy, Accountability, and Trust. And it just happened to be, that was the acronym I kind of came up with. And I, and I just mentioned that like 10 minutes ago though, it was exact five attributes almost. And so then a couple days go by and I erased the word trust, and I put the word transparency. And I, and the reason why I erased the word trust, cause people say, well, when you think about great, you know, rates and acronym, why’d you get rid of the word trust? I go, well, I really didn’t.

I, all I’m saying is that if you wanna build that trust in an organization, you’ve gotta be really transparent with them. Like, I needed to be really transparent with my entire team. This is what Covid has done to our business. This is what we need to do. This is how I need everyone to come together. And I couldn’t just say, Hey guys, we’re gonna lay off people. Trust me. I need to tell them why I need to be transparent. I needed them to understand what was happening. So that’s what so that’s what we did. And to me, those five key attributes of gratitude, resilience, empathy, accountability, and transparency, make up the word great. And that became my north star for what enlightened leadership should be. And if I go back and I look at historically those five attributes, you see pockets of that everywhere. Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, when he took over for Steve Ballmer, he says he’s an internet interview. He says gratitude was the number one thing that he implemented that turned Microsoft around gratitude.

Gratitude and the Path to Enlightened LeadershipJenn DeWall: That’s, I love that. Let, let’s dive into that. Like as gratitude being the starting point for, you know, great, what does gratitude look like in action? Because I think that there, you know, in a traditional school of thought, maybe it was, there’s no place for gratitude or yeah, we’ve got a rewards and recognition. We’ll send you a gift card. What does gratitude look like in action? Or said in a different way? What does gratitude mean to you and how you wrote about it in this book?

Rajeev Kapur: Look, yeah, I mean, you know, the way I write about it in the book is that gratitude is a foundational integrated, like, it’s in your soul. It’s something you just do, just as, just like you breathe, just like you walk or talk– gratitude, kindness, compassion, kindness, compassion are all an outcome of gratitude, right? I am so grateful I have an opportunity to talk to you and get my message across to your audience, right? I, I am so grateful that I had a chance today to go meet with, with, with a bunch of guys this morning to talk about our personal family business and where we can become better leaders, better fathers, but better husbands. You know, better people, better persons, you know, to our communities. I had that discussion earlier today, right? So gratitude is recognizing that you have so much to grateful for, and how do you now take that and spread that message across?

And what Microsoft didn’t do for a long time is they did not embrace their community. And gratitude is a hug. Gratitude is a way to embrace your community and let them know that, hey, we wouldn’t be here unless it was for you. And that’s what you need to do, is you, you need to hug your team, hug your organization, and you let them know that you as a CEO wouldn’t be here. That wasn’t for them, you know? And that, yes, there’s gonna be times when you have to make some tough decisions, but you, but you promised always be fully transparent and you’ll answer any question. And that you’re gonna do everything you can to be grateful for them and making sure that they are, have the tools they need to be successful, okay? And when you honor their dreams that way, that becomes your why. And so that, that led to my why, which is helping to honor other people’s dreams and gratitude is the enabler of that. So that’s why gratitude is so important.

Jenn DeWall: I mean, I love that. I, I can think of the jobs that have stood, or, the bosses I should say, that have stood out to me. The ones that have made the greatest impact are the ones that have have said, thank you so much for your work. I really appreciate what you did. And honestly, the first time I ever heard that from a boss, I was like, who are you? Because that was not the traditional way to speak to employees. It was, you should just be happy. You have a job, aren’t you happy that you work here? And so to feel so valued by a boss felt like, what’s the catch? What, what am I waiting for here? And I’m curious, how do you, you know, you talked about it as like giving your team a hug. How do you practice gratitude or how do you personally show your employees that you’re grateful for them?

Rajeev Kapur: So it’s, to me now it’s become second nature, right? So to me, I just find myself doing it without even realize I’m doing it right. Whether it’s an atta-boy in an email, whether it’s randomly calling somebody, whether it’s realizing, Hey, it’s Jenn’s birthday today, so I’m gonna wish you a happy birthday. You know, whether it’s, you know being grateful for a customer that did something amazing, or, you know, we have something internally in the company called the High Five Award, which is a peer-to-peer recognition award. Whether it’s doing on-the-spots, you know, whether it is doing a research on figuring out a great tool for them to be able to use, you know, you know, one of the things we decided to do as a company is we didn’t take a dollar of PPP money, not $1. So all that government stimulus that came out a, we were, we had a really hard time qualifying cuz we had some private equity money in us.

And so we didn’t take a dollar. So I asked the team to take pay cuts. I asked the team to do certain things and so I wanted to make sure that I could return that favor. And we did. And we, we were able to restore people’s pay back fairly quickly. We do, we do, we do like a yearly bonus for every employee. You know, we, you know, we, we we allow remote work, you know, you know, I, I tell people, you know, if you’re not feeling good, if you’re tired and it’s five o’clock in the evening, that’s okay. Go home or to turn off your computer wherever you are. You know, go to Starbucks or go go to the beach. Or go to the mountains or go for a hike because that problem you have, it’ll still be there at 8:00 AM tomorrow morning and do it when you’re refreshed.

Rajeev Kapur: I’d rather you have a clear mind to go do that way, because, or if you feel like, hey, you know what, you’ve got a appointment in the day or you gotta take care of your kids the day, but, but you can get the job done at eight o’clock at night and you need, you need to have a few hours off in the middle of the day to go do other stuff. Do I care if the job gets done at 10:00 AM or 10:00 PM Yeah, I really don’t. Right? So, so we kind of really backed off of this kind of authoritarian viewpoint saying, look, company’s doing well, we’re doing fine. Knock on wood, you know, we, we trust you because we’re fully transparent and as a two-way street, the relationship we have, you know, one thing I try to stay away from is I’m not a big fan of using that word family, you know? Instead what I like to do is I talk about the fact that there is, it’s a two-way relationship. And so, you know, it’s a relationship. And so we honor we try to honor that relationship. And so that’s, that’s what we do.

Enlightened Leaders Must Have Empathy and UnderstandingJenn DeWall: I love that, I love that you make time because that’s the big piece I heard. You’re, you obviously are, you sit on multiple boards, you’re running an organization, you’ve got a lot going on and you still make the time for development. And you know, cuz I, I think that’s an important point to emphasize because there might be people that say, I don’t have time for that. But it sounds like you make the time, you take time to make that time, which is, you know, the important piece of it. And I know, and I wanna go into a few other elements of great, I know we, we will not cover them all because hey, we’re gonna get the book, but let’s talk about another one. Let’s talk about what, what empathy sounds like for you and empathy and how we’re demonstrating that. Because again, I think there’s a lot more confusion from people on the, the how, like how do you do empathy and come on, can’t they again, just be happy they have a job? You know, I know that there’s that traditional approach that comes back in, but how do you define empathy or from how did you write it?

Rajeev Kapur: Yeah, I mean, I, I think the big one, I think I mentioned it earlier, to me, empathy is just all about listening big. That’s it. It’s really simple. And I don’t wanna complicate this with some sort of long drawn out or attractive answer. It’s really just about listening big. Like, I think I gave the example earlier, right? That when I was growing up, when I was kinda moving up the ladder in my career, you had to go to your boss with those three solutions, otherwise you don’t go to your boss, right? And, and so that has to change. And that, that’s where I, I think that was probably of those five attributes I talked about, I thought of, of gratitude, resilience, empathy, accountability, and transparency. I think empathy was the one where I think I changed the most. And having that attitude that say, that’s okay, Jenn, you got a problem, you know, come and talk to me.

Let’s, let’s work it through together. We’re in this together, it’s a relationship, right? Jenn, thank you for trusting me to come to me with a problem and not being afraid of my title. Because the more, the more I can take my experiences and give them to you, the better you’re gonna be right? And the better and the happier you’re gonna be your job. And that’s the, that’s empathy. That’s really all you gotta do, right? It’s, it’s, you know, it’s when you’re walking down the hallways of, of the office, you know, it’s stopping by and listening and saying, how’s it going? Right? Oh, it’s my son’s birthday today and it happens to be my son’s birthday today, you know, oh, happy birthday. But then going back to your office noting, oh, it’s Jenn’s son’s birthday today, put that in your calendar. So next year it pops up saying, oh, it’s Jenn’s son’s birthday today. Hey Jenn, who’s your son, Sean, a happy birthday. You know, whatever. Right? My son’s name, Sean. So anyways, so, so that’s, so those are small little things you do, right? I mean, you know, it’s, you know, it’s, you know, people get excited by those things, right? So that’s, but it’s simple. It’s that, that you don’t, overcomplicate that one. It’s a big word in business, but it’s a really easy one to implement.

Jenn DeWall: Where do you think, out of the, out of gratitude, resilience, empathy, accountability and transparency, what one, from your experience, do you think either for you was maybe the most challenging to adjust? Or do you, you think people in general might have, you know, a little bit more hurdles or complications with really adapting?

Rajeev Kapur: So I think as I mentioned, I think empathy was probably my biggest one. And I think the second one was probably transparency, because look, it’s hard to be able to really be, oh, there’s certain things you can’t talk about in a business, right? You know, obviously you wanna, you know, but you have to, when it come to time for major challenges and issues, you gotta be really transparent with your team. So you gotta tell ’em how you’re performing as a company, where you have gaps, where you have opportunities for growth, where you think the misses are where you, where, where do you think the hits are? Where, you know, where do you think the you know, the, there might be an opportunity to improve a performance, you know, whatever the case, you gotta be transparent, but you also have to be transparent the other way as well.

You have to be willing to listen to that as well. And that’s where that empathy piece comes back, right? And you have to learn, you have to learn that not only can you give constructive criticism, you need to be open to receiving that constructive criticism as well. So that’s what we did. Employee surveys out there. Right. You know, one of the questions I asked, so at the, at the end, and hopefully the leaders skip the book, and at the end of the chapters I have questions of, you know, Ithought provoking questions at the end of every chapter. And I think my, somebody asked me, what is my favorite question in the book? So as a leader, as a CEO my favorite question in that book is, if you’re trying to figure out how good your culture is, the question I want you to ask your employees is, Jenn, if you were to receive an offer from a Crestcom competitor making the exact same amount of money, do the exact same thing, would you leave? So granted, these things are anonymous, right? And if the answer you get back is yes, you have a major culture problem,

Transparency Creates TrustJenn DeWall: Right? Right. Yeah, absolutely. If they’re like, Hey, anything’s gotta be better than here. I have one final question as it relates to transparency is I think whether you’re an emerging leader or whether you’re an executive leader, it’s often really difficult to determine what is appropriate, what can I share? But the other piece is when, because when do you make the time to share this? Is it a standing meeting that you have? Because I often notice that sometimes organizations will, you know, I might have to listen to a quarterly earnings call to actually hear the update. So do you have any prescriptive advice on how to approach transparency when to, you know, communicate particular information or when it’s essential such as, hey, we just, you know, lost a big client, or, you know, here’s a crisis situation. I’m curious if you have any tips on how people can understand when they should be prompted to be more transparent.

Rajeev Kapur: Yeah, no, great, great question. And so look, my, my tip is essentially is that you’ve gotta start getting it on the calendar. So, so people can start changing behavior. So for example, we do a quarterly recognition event at the end of every quarter, about three weeks after the quarter closes. So we’ll do a Q1 recognition event towards the end of April, and we talk about, Hey, who are the new employees that started the company? We’ll do, we’ll celebrate birthdays and anniversaries, we’ll celebrate, you know, the what we call the 1105 of the quarter, the manager of the quarter for the different divisions, and there’s five divisions. And so, so we do all that stuff, right? And then we talk about, you know, how are we doing in our different business lines? Are they up, are they down? Are they just kind of holding, you know, sideways, whatever the case may be.

We talk about that stuff, we talk about the priorities, how are we doing against them? So we have a set of KPIs, key performance indicators, how are we doing it against our KPIs? And we make it simple stoplight format, green, yellow, red, green, hey that kpi, man. Yeah, we’re, we’re, we’re gold. That, that, that’s a good, we’re we’re going, we’re driving the car. We’re, we’ve driven, we’re we’re driving down the road so that, that, that, that KPI is going. So that’s green. So I mean that we’re on track. Yellow means, hey, you know, we’re not on track, we’re not off track. It’s just kind there. It’s kind muddling a little bit, but I think we can do it. And red means we’re off means we’re stopped. And so obviously your goal as a CEO is to take your reds, turn ’em into yellows, and take your yellows and turn ’em in greens, right?

And keep your greens, greens. So that’s ultimately the goal, right? And those are your KPIs. So we share that group with people. We do that. And then that every division, so every division GM does a monthly town hall just with our specific group. Cause at my recognition events that we do quarterly, they’re very high level, right? They talk about more high levels going across all the businesses.

Give Your Team Control of Their CalendarsRajeev Kapur: And then, look, I, I only have two set standing meetings. Well, I have more than that, but you, but in terms of set, like we’ll set individual one-on-one type meetings. So I have a staff meeting every Tuesday, and then I have one-on-ones with every single one of my direct reports, which is about 10 direct reports every week. Other than that, I try not to add more meetings to people’s calendars. I get invited to meetings, which I go to, but I try not to add more meetings to other people’s calendars.

I want, I want my team to be control, I want them to be controllers of their own catalog to their own calendar, to their own time. Like, so, so we, so I decided a couple years ago to decentralize all decision making and push it closest to the customer as possible. And, and we change incentives, we change bonus structures to say, okay, you’re gonna be responsible for profitability for your business. If that’s the case, I’m gonna give you the keys to the car to drive, but here’s the number you gotta hit. What decisions are you gonna make now to deliver that number? Now you can do your hiring, you can do your firing, you can do, you can decide what groups you gonna do, but, and we’ll, we’ll review that progress every week and we’ll see how that’s going. And so, so that’s that, that, that’s, that’s essentially what we do.

Jenn DeWall: I love that example, and I know that you can speak about it with competence because clearly you’ve been able to articulate this, but I also just wanted to acknowledge that that is actually one of the things that’s really hard for people, a following through on strategies and actually checking up on the KPIs or milestones or whatever that is. But then two, whoa, you’re giving people the keys to the car to drive that or letting go of that control is honestly, I mean that’s e that’s a challenge again, at every single level of leadership. And so I just want to acknowledge and hopefully reemphasize to our listeners of the value that can come if you do give away some of that control if you do allow more autonomy or decentralized decision-making. And I just, I appreciate that example because I think there’s a lot of people that have more fear with that. And it sounds like you really lean into it with a lot of trust and I, you know, and I know that that’s part of your last piece. So Rajeev, I really enjoyed our conversation. How can our audience connect with you? Where can they get the book? How can they get in touch with you?

Where to Find More from Rajeev KapurRajeev Kapur: Yeah, no, thank you. I appreciate that. So look, I mean the book’s obviously available on Amazon. It’s available, it’s also available, so it’s available in Kindle format. It’s now available in audiobook format through Audible. You can also buy the hard cover through Amazon and you can just search in Chase Greatness, Rajeev Kapur, last name is K A P U R, or Chase Greatness Enlightened Leadership, that will pull it all up right there. They can go on, it’s available book’s available at an audiobook on Spotify as well now. So if you go to spotify.com, you can’t go to the app, you have to go spotify.com and get it there. And over time it’ll be rolling out other places as well. So that’s where it’s available on an audiobook format. So I think through Spotify and Audible.com, You got most of those covered in terms of getting hold of me.

Obviously I’m on LinkedIn. If you just want LinkedIn, type in Rajeev. My first name is spelled r a j e e v, like Victor, then, then people will find me 1105 media. It’s not that hard. You know, and then of I’m on social media fairly, I’m pretty active as mostly on Instagram. I’m not a big Twitter guy, but I like Instagram. And so my, my Instagram is at @TheRajeevKapur. But anyways so that’s kinda, those are kinda really good ways to get hold of me. Also, you know, if they can go to RajeevKapur.com and also to 1105Media.com and there’s ways to, to connect with me there. And of course they can always, I guess, get ahold of you. You can send them my way as well, so,

Jenn DeWall: Yes, absolutely. Well, Rajeev, thank you again so much for carving out the time to help us all think differently about how we might approach and actually chase greatness. Thank you so much for coming on the leadership Habit.

Rajeev Kapur: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thank you so much. Proud I could be here today.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit. I love the examples, and especially Rajeev just sharing even the ways that he practices what he preaches. Now, if you want to get in touch with Rajeev, you can purchase his book Chase Greatness, and you can find that on Amazon, or you can head on over to his website, RajeevKapur.com or even check out 1105 Media. And of course, if you know someone that might benefit from hearing this message, please share it. And don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

The post Chasing Greatness to Find Enlightened Leadership with Rajeev Kapur, CEO appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Intentional Communication and the Power of Words with Mihaela BerciuHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall. In this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Mihaela Berciu, and we talked about the power of words and how to be a more intentional communicator. I love the conversation around words. It’s something that I know that intentional communication is something I can improve on, and she gave really great insights in terms of some words that I never even thought about in terms of how they could be perceived and why we want to be very intentional with making sure that myself and the person that I’m talking to have the same definition. But let me tell you a little bit more about Mihaela. Using her core values model, Mihaela works with and advises board members, top-level managers, angel investors, and senior professionals seeking to excel in their careers and improved performance to drive even greater success.

Meet Mihaela Berciu, Leadership Breakthrough SpecialistJenn DeWall: Mihaela’s client portfolio ranges from banking, financial consulting, pharmaceuticals, FMCGs, retail fashion, television, aviation services, and more. Feel like that is a ton. She received her executive coaching certification from Cambridge University and MBA from the American University in London, and studied psychology of mind and Theory of Knowledge at Oxford University. She hosted a national TV show viewed by hundreds of thousands and is the author of two best-selling books, dressed for Success and Success is in the details. Her mission is to get leaders to experience their excellence by exploring values, understanding aspirations, removing barriers, and visualizing the path to their personal and professional success. Let’s now envision a world where we can communicate better as Mihaela, and I start to talk about the power of your words and the language that you use.

We’re talking about a topic that I just think is so exciting today, and I just loved your energy when we met during the pre-call. You have such a profound story, and that really demonstrates the topic that we’re going to be talking about today, and I’m so excited that you’re here. So I just wanna start by saying Mihaela, thank you so much for coming on the show, for taking the time. It’s really been a pleasure to meet you, and I’m just excited to introduce you to our guests.

Mihaela Berciu: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. I am very, very excited to be here today.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. And well, maybe tell our audience where you’re joining from today. You are across the pond for me. I am here in Colorado.

Mihaela Berciu: I’m in London, United Kingdom. So yes, we are meeting from across the waters.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. I love it. Well, we’re going to be talking to our audience about understanding the power of our words and the language, language that we use. A really important topic because, hey, it’s going to impact everything we do. Now, before we jump into the show because Mihaela has got a lot of great insights and ways that you can really strengthen your intention and how you communicate, I want her to just, you know, Mihaela, if you could just share a little bit more about yourself, talk about your story and how you came to be because I was inspired by your story, and I know that someone else will be too!

Mihaela Berciu: Thank you. So, my story is quite diverse to put it in an interesting way. I grew up, I was born and grew up in Romania during communism, the most dire of the communisms in Eastern Europe. So that kind of showed me, oh, oh, oh, or rather it until I was about 16 when when the revolution happened. I was very much under the fear of words of what I’m saying and to whom I was saying it. So that kind of you know, it was at the beginning of this relationship romance between me and words, , .

Jenn DeWall: But I mean, I feel like that’s a very, you know, if I think about other people, and I, I’m sorry to interrupt your story. I don’t know if other people had that stark, like, you really need to pay attention to your words moment in their life. You know, there’s a high stake high stake consequences if you’re not doing that. And many of us have never been faced to do that, because we haven’t necessarily had those high stakes consequences of not mm-hmm.

Learning About the Power of WordsMihaela Berciu: And, sorry. Exactly. And, and I think that the moment that I was mostly sort of faced with that you know, be careful what, what you, what you say and how you say it. It was after I visited London for the first time when I was 15. And for me, it was mind blowing. It was my second trip in the, in the west. And my first one was when I was 13 in Western Germany. And I was blown away that there, that such a world exists compared to the world I was living in, there were like complete, complete opposites. But then when I was, you know, 15 and when I was 15, 16, and I traveled to London, I was more mature emotionally as well. So pacing again, and, and I was in London for longer, it was it was a month.

So I, I actually had the time to experience living in, in such a place. And the abundance of everything for me was just insane because I was coming from a place where there was nothing, absolutely nothing in, in in shops. And so when I went back, you know, my mind was like on fire, and of course I was very excited, but at the same time, I was very frustrated and I was, you know, I’m a Leo, so I’m quite vocal, and I, I was vocal from, from a very young age that my parents had to sit me down and say, okay, we get it. We get the excitement, we get everything you’re going through, but you have to, to just shut up. You have to be very careful who you share that experience with. And, but mostly what you, what what you are gonna say.

Because at the time if you said anything, I mean, you didn’t have to say anything against the party or against the, the beloved president. If someone thought or heard you in a way that could have been interpreted as saying something against the party and and the system my parents would’ve been, you know, in, in, in big, big trouble because I was a minor. And of course, I wouldn’t have been in, in any trouble cause I, I wouldn’t have been responsible for my words, for my actions, but my parents would’ve had to, to pay for that. And so it was, it was a real danger. It wasn’t, oh, you know, don’t show off. Don’t, you know, it’s, it’s rude to show off and you have to be, you know, modest and all of that. No, it was actually, you know, life and death kind of situation. So that’s when, you know, the, it was reinforced to me the power, you know, of, of language, the power of words, and how if you’re not careful and if you just throw words around, they can do a lot of damage instead of do do, do good, right.

Jenn DeWall: I mean, again, I cannot, you know, I can’t even picture growing up with that level of fear of how our words could be used against us, against our parents, against someone. Mm-Hmm. And, you know, I’m so intrigued by childhood brain development and early brain development, not that I’m an expert in it, but how you were able to persevere and to take that, that intentionality that you had to learn for a more of a survival purpose. And now you’re taking it into the world to help them understand that. And heck, everyone listening your words may not have these high stakes consequences, but it doesn’t mean that you don’t wanna pay attention to them because the consequences you see, they might be great in the form of turnover or lack of productivity or disengagement.

The Problem with WordsJenn DeWall: But you had mentioned at the back of it that you were talking about the problem with words. And so that’s the great, you know, the starting question. So Mihaela, what is the problem with words? What’s the problem with words? What do you mean? Like, we, we speak these all the time. I don’t, there’s a problem with them. I know the bad words we’re supposed to avoid, but what’s the problem with words?

Mihaela Berciu: Well, you’d be surprised how some words as innocent as they seem, they can actually be bad words, because you don’t know exactly how the other person hears hears them, and you don’t know the, their experience with those, those words. And in today’s world where we meet people from, you know, all, all various cultures, various languages, maybe, maybe the translation from another language means something else. But also,

Jenn DeWall: Also a laugh that I have right now. And if, if, you know, you know, I’m not gonna say it, but Kylie Jenner just named her child. I think there was a big movement on TikTok that talked about what the origin name of that was in another language. And that’s like more of a pop culture reference of not maybe paying attention to that, or even going back to another Kardashian reference, Kim Kardashian, and trying to initially use the word kimono, not paying attention to how that word is used and perceived and valued in a different culture.

Mihaela Berciu: Exactly. Exactly. And if, you know, if you think if, if you, if you take those two examples, those are people who have teams of, of marketing teams of pr people, teams of everything. And they still, you know, they still created or, or, or made, made a mistake un unaware, you know made a mistake. So, but now bring that to, you know, us, the, the rest of us,

Jenn DeWall: that don’t have a team. We just have ourselves

Building Trust with Intentional CommunicationMihaela Berciu: We just have our own self-restraint, self-awareness and, and our minds and our vocabulary. But I also, apart from that I also, you know, strongly believe words do carry energy. So when you say something it, it will very likely, you know, it, it depends on how, how it matches theenergy of the person receiving. And if probably if I would have to give a piece of advice, and it’s actually the piece of advice that I give to my clients is when you say something, don’t say it for yourself. Say it for the other person. Don’t, you know, it’s not a conversation with yourself when it, when it’s a, when it’s a conversation, it’s about the other person. So be mindful about that. And I know it may sound, you know that you can, you can be inauthentic because you’d have to maybe change the words, but in my opinion, you become much more authentic when you start thinking how what I’m saying can affect the other person. And cause then you build a different kind of trust and the, the, the channels of communications open in magical, magical ways.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. I, and that example, it happened, you and I had the pre-call, and then I had a miscommunication with, with someone about a deadline. And we were talking about something. What I heard is that it was due, you know, yesterday. And, and what, and when we actually came to follow up this conversation, and I talked, we talked about like my friction. Cause I, I worked a really, really long day then to get this done. What then I found out is that they meant to say it was supposed to be due on Tuesday, but if it goes to next week, that’s fine, . I didn’t hear that. So I put in a 14 hour day to get it done. Yeah. And I was frustrated because it was a surprising deadline to me, but then to find out that that actually wasn’t what they meant,

Avoiding Miscommunication by Communicating IntentionallyMihaela Berciu: And that’s why there is so much conflict out there, you know that is completely unnecessary because if, if, you know, I’m sure, I’m sure you you, you’ve heard and read and maybe some other guests spoke about it. But there, you know, when you, when you listen, if you listen to, to respond you will never understand exactly the message because you are in a rush. You are in a rush to, to, you know, spl out your opinion. So if you, if we take that in instead of listening to understand, and that’s where the power of listening is listening to understand rather than listening to, to respond or to react. And when, if, if we take that and we turn it around, if you speak, you know, to be understood, rather than if you speak to, to draw a reaction, the the interaction will be very, very different. And when, when we’re in a rush and we’re, you know way too often in a rush, we don’t listen to understand. We just hear something and that’s it. We react and we don’t hear the, the rest of the message. And we, we miss, miss out on the essence of the message.

Jenn DeWall: I wonder how much those miscommunications where we say something really quick, we all do it. I absolutely do it. And think like, did you get that? I didn’t even check to see if you got that. Hopefully you got that. Mm-Hmm. I mean, so many times I think we, I wonder, I just wonder how much that those types of miscommunications where we say something really quick, knowing that we don’t get the Face time that we necessarily used to, of how much they’ve, you know, miscommunication has increased just because we don’t have necessarily that face-to-face conversation anymore with people. Mm-Hmm. so much of it is electronic, or it’s just that it might be a one and done. We have our virtual meeting, this is what I said, and then there’s not another time that I can see you unless there’s a meeting or something.

Mihaela Berciu: Yep, exactly. We we’re too rushed, definitely too rushed in in, in our communications. But also the other thing is where a lot of conflict and, and miscommunication, let’s say comes from is we think a lot before we actually get to the point of saying something. And we are so accustomed with everything, we have been thinking of that when we say something in a, in, in the desire to be, you know succinct to, to be quick, to, you know, not waste time, we sort of say something with the having the belief that the other person knows what we mean, because we’re so accustomed by now with our, our thoughts. And and then they get, you know, a phrase and they’re like, what the hell was that all about? You know? And you are like, well, what is so difficult to understand? You know?

Cause you’ve had hours of thoughts in your head about that. Whereas this person has been thrown a phrase and with the expectation that they’ll get it like this. Well, they won’t, they won’t. First of all the, when we speak to them, their mind is somewhere else. So, you know, the first step is bring them in the room with you, you know, align them with the topic and then start talking about it. And then always, always, always ask, you know, is this, you know, did you, did you get what I meant to say? You know, what, what did I mean to say? Or if they say something, you know, I always ask, what does that mean to the most simplest things? What does that mean to you? And then they’re like, well, what do you mean what it means to me? I mean, exactly that. What does it mean to you? And then when they start explaining, I said, oh, okay. Cuz to me it means this. And they’re like, oh, really? Yeah. And then, you know, you clarify and you leave that room with a positive outcome. Un otherwise you just leave the room and you start going into overthinking because you’re are uncertain of what was that all about? And just like it happened to you, you ended up working extra hours, extra hard when maybe 30 seconds more of clarification would’ve led to a very different outcome.

Jenn DeWall: Yes, absolutely. I mean, there, I know I’m not alone. And I share that example. And, and even, I want to say this, the person that I had that conversation with is a lovely person. We just had a miscommunication. And I think that’s important to remember that, you know, assume positive intent with people. I, I didn’t assume it very well. I was very frustrated on Monday, but I did approach the follow-up conversation very objectively and just, you know, talking about what we can do differently going forward, assume Positive intent.

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The Power of Choosing Our Words to Communicate with IntentionJenn DeWall: You talked about, and I wanna dive into this cuz why do we need to care about the power of our words? And you hit on the point of not all words are created equal, and we don’t all define them the same. When I think of that, I think of even the word success. That success is an entirely different, very personal definition of what we think success looks like. Whether, I know for me, my 20 year old self is like doing everything perfect the first time because you’re amazing. Yeah. Well, you know, obviously the ego, the like, perfection, it didn’t work. But what examples do you what examples do you kind of see where people might misuse, you know, or use one definition in one word and then someone else perceives it as the other? I mean, success is my favorite one to ask because you can kind of learn a lot about what’s your definition of success, and most people haven’t thought about it.

Mihaela Berciu: Yeah. Well, another one that is very often used with, again, you know, endless meanings and understanding is imagination. It’s, you know, imagination. You can, you can tell someone that’s your imagination saying, you are a bit crazy. I never said that. You know, that’s all in your head. Or you say, well, use your imagination, which is a positive thing, you know, learn, be be more creative, be fearless. Go with it. Or say, well, in your imagination that is gonna happen, which is like never, you know, don’t even think about it. So it goes on and on and on and on. And yes, there’s a lot of intonation, you know, that gives meaning to, to words, but it’s choosing the right words that makes the, makes the difference. And one, one example that I can give especially when I work with leaders regarding their teams and their interaction with their teams, is when they say everything is so complicated. And I say, well, it’s, is it complicated or is it complex?

Jenn DeWall: Yeah.

Mihaela Berciu: And then they’re a bit like well, hmm, well what’s the difference? Well, you tell me. Is there a difference between complicated and complex? And then they realize that actually complicated is a negative word. And it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s not you. You are not in a good place if something is complicated. Whereas if something is complex, it’s much more positive, it’s much more, you know much more interesting to work with. And it, it takes away a lot of heaviness in, in that in that in interaction and in how you regard whatever, you know, it was complicated but became complex. So it’s much much more lighter to deal with. Yes. Oh,

Jenn DeWall: That’s a really powerful example because even just rooting that, if you go to your team and you’re like, this is really complicated, you’re just creating a stress response for them. We have the opportunity to solve this complex challenge. You know, it’s complex, but I know if we break it down, we can figure it out.

Mihaela Berciu: Exactly.

Jenn DeWall: I feel like there’s motivation within those words and that tone of paying attention of like the right word choice and it’s framing. Mm-Hmm.

Mihaela Berciu: Absolutely. change is the whole dynamic. And it’s the same is the same. Another example would be problem versus question. If you go to someone, and, and this is something I would actually encourage, you know, your, your, your listeners our listeners to do, go to someone, anyone, whether you know them or not, it doesn’t matter. And say, I have a problem. Immediately their body, body language will change because when it’s a problem is alarm, you know, and they become alert, they become like, oh my God, what’s going on? I I don’t need your problems.

You know, I I, if you say, I have a problem, well, it’s your problem. Deal with it. I don’t need your problems. Whereas if you go and say, I have a question, they open up. Because then you, they, they, they connect with you. They think, oh, well this person must really, you know, look, look up to me. If they come to me with a question, they, you know, that’s good. That’s nice. So they become curious. They wanna help you. It’s, and, and at the end of the day, it’s the same thing. Yeah. You know, but it’s, it’s just reframing it, it’s just approaching it in a, in a very different way.

Jenn DeWall: Thinking about, how can I say this in a way that doesn’t, you know, arm them up in a way that disarms them, that allows them to enter the conversation. And it’s, you know, I think we don’t take the time to slow down and do that. Mm-Hmm. , we just don’t. Mm-Hmm. We’re all way too rushed, way too busy. The expectations of what we’re supposed to accomplish in, in a day have increased and the hours are still the same. And it’s so interesting, you know, in the Crestcom, CEO we will say this, like, there’s always, you know, we obviously teach leadership, you’re in the leadership space. We’re never going to have a world where we’re not learning about communication .

Mihaela Berciu: No, no. Absolutely not. But that’s, that’s the fun of it, you know, that’s what I find very interesting and very engaging with, with communication. Cuz it’s, it’s just wonderful. You know, it’s just a a a great place to, to push yourself, to challenge yourself, to learn, to grow to.

Increasing Your Awareness to Improve Intentional CommunicationJenn DeWall: Yeah. I love it. Well, let’s, let’s dive into it. Okay. Let’s think about, you know, how can we, how can we do that? Because again, and I will say this, and I, I’ve sat in this chair for a while. Self-Awareness is legitimately one of, from how I see it, one of the hardest things to build and mm-hmm. . And there’s a lot of different ways you can do it, but there also is a piece of ownership that needs to happen for you to actually build a self-awareness. And so as, yeah, you’re talking about what you can do, you know, be curious and gentle with yourself. If you’ve noticed some things that maybe you didn’t do well, like, it’s okay, you can do something different. But let’s talk about the how, how we can do this. How can you increase your self-awareness around language?

Mihaela Berciu: Well, first of all pay attention to what other people say and how, how they react. Because if for example, if they say, oh, I knew you were gonna say that, that it means there’s something you use regularly. So think of that, what is it? Why am I using and why are people reacting like that? Or if you think if you go towards someone with something and their reaction seems to be out of proportion with how, with how, how, you know, big or or small, the problem is or whatever issue you raised with them then you have to go back and say, okay, how did I address this? And it’s always after the fact for a while until you build, you know, that awareness to react in, in the moment and then before the moment. So you are, you are, you become in control of how, what langu language you use.

But more than that, the, the, the fun part of building this awareness is just play with words. Just play with words, you know, is, and with your thoughts is going back to maybe the problem, you know, I have a problem. Well, is it really a problem? You know, what, what does the problem mean? And then you start playing around and what’s a different word? For, for problem, you know, I see, I, I love, if I see or I hear a word, I just go in, in my, you know, in my app, dictionary app. And I just look at synonyms and I just play around those words and I think, oh, maybe this one sounds better and this is more closer, you know, to what I want to, to express. And the other thing is always ask people, what do you mean by that?

Mm-Hmm. , what does this word mean to you? Even if it’s a simple word, a word like problem, what does it that mean to you? Because maybe for me and my background and the way I grew up, problem is life or death. Yeah. But for you is a mild inconvenience. So when you come to me and says, I hear the word problem coming out of your mouth, my senses go like, you know, alarm, alarm, alarm. And you’re like, what’s going on? You know, cuz it’s not a big deal. And then I think, well, maybe it’s not a big deal for you, but clearly it is a big deal if you use this word. So have, build more awareness on the fact that with curiosity that other people for, for the the same words might mean other things for other people. And also they have different intensities for different people.

Intentional Communication and Understanding TriggersJenn DeWall: That is a really great example because I think that there are, you know, if we think about the power of words in terms of the emotional reaction that happens in your body when you hear a particular word that you might have someone that’s like, oh, I’m a problem solver. I can handle any level of problem that’s come my way. Well, yeah, it all depends on how you divide problem. If problem for someone else is life or death is a high stakes thing, they’re naturally going to have that reaction. And so kind of saying like, I’m really great cause I’m a, a problem solver. And then maybe not taking into account that someone looks at it differently based on their background. It’s not that they’re not capable, it’s not that they, you know, can’t do, do the task, but they are going to have different triggers with these words.

Mm. I I love using the word problem. Like, and I think it’s important in the age where we really do need to be mindful of people’s background and experience of how they’ve come today to create a great environment for them. Like, we need to understand how people do that. And it’s not to say, I’m gonna give you a list of words and now let’s all write out our definition of that. It’s what you just said. I’m like, what does that mean to you? I love that.

Mihaela Berciu: Mm-Hmm. Yeah, exactly. And for example, I had a, a big issue with the word help. Because in, in school growing up, if you ask the question or if you ask the teacher for help, they would call you all the names in the world and you know that you are stupid, you are incapable, you didn’t pay attention. And, you know, it was, it was really, so I grew up, you know, never ever asking for help. So when I heard, even if I heard the world, the world help, I would be like, you know, no. Or if, if someone asked me, do you need help? No, I’m a stupid, you know, I’m not there. I love

Jenn DeWall: That. I’m not stupid . Yeah,

Mihaela Berciu: Exactly. Cause that was, that was my relationship with that word. And there were people who were very kind in offering help and asking me if I needed help. But I, for me, that meant, you know, an insult. That meant they looked at me as, as a, you know, being, being stupid, being whatever I heard growing up. And it’s a very common and, and, and very yeah, very common word, you know, that you would never think twice of how would that impact someone else you, you know, even comes, right? Cause you

Jenn DeWall: Think it’s like, I’m here to help. Can you see that? I’m trying to help you, Mihaela! I just wanna help you.

Mihaela Berciu: Exactly. And then I would take that as a big insult and I would be like, who the hell does she think she is? You know, I mean, I’m not stupid. Why does she keep insisting to help me? You know?

Jenn DeWall: I love it. Sorry, continue on .

Mihaela Berciu: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s how easy, you know, that’s how easy it it is to, to end up, start with a good intention and end up, you know, insulting someone or, or end up in some kind of conflict. And you, you don’t even understand why and, and what did just happened.

Jenn DeWall: My god, now I know, gosh, I’ve just really enjoyed this conversation, but I know that we have to wrap. And so maybe, you know, the other thing, if you’re a leader that’s sitting there like, okay, I need to be more intentional with my words. I, I really want to check for clarification that we’re on the same page. What are ways that we can build that self-awareness around the words and the language that we use on our teams? Can you do that? Or is it just more I’m describing the difference? Or would you have a protocol where you’re like, yeah, here are the common words that we actually use and then let’s set these almost as team norms, or how would you maybe advise a leadership?

How to Encourage Intentional CommunicationMihaela Berciu: It’s, it’s just help their team open, open conversations and encourage, you know, those conversations within the team as well. Especially in today’s world where people come from such different backgrounds and such different cultures and never, ever take anything for granted. Not, not even the simplest word as help or problem or success or, you know whatever, whatever l cities and having intentional conversations. It’s, it’s not as, as hard as it sounds and it’s not as very fulfilling. And the beauty of it is, it might sound like it, it, it would take longer. It actually takes a lot less because once you understand something, you’ll know, and then the future conversations will be very different and you will avoid a lot of unnecessary you know disagreements or, or, or frustration or extra hours as it happens. So, tiredness, stress all of that, it’s, it’s just by having that awareness and intention to align, to understand, and to to speak in a way that is for the other person is not, it’s not for you. It’s not about you.

Where to Find More From Mihaela BerciuJenn DeWall: I love this, Mihaela! Really thinking through how might this be perceived? Perception is reality. What is their perception of this word? Mm-Hmm. mihaela. How can people get in touch with you?

Mihaela Berciu: What’s my, my website which is mihai.com, my first name and my surname.com, or all my social, all the regular social media channels where I am. Again, Mihai,

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for taking your time. Thank you for helping us slow down to think about how we can be more effective communication or communicators by paying attention to the power of our words. I really appreciate absolutely the conversation and your time. And thank you!

Mihaela Berciu: Thank you very much for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast. You know, I never really thought about the word problem. I never thought about that as a word and how people might arm up. I understand that it can be a trigger word, but I never until this conversation really thought about why we need to pay attention to what that might mean as it relates to someone’s experience in life. So I really appreciated a lot of the things that I could maybe adjust in my style, such as saying something is complex versus complicated.

Now, if you enjoyed this conversation with Mihaela Berciu, or you know someone that could benefit from hearing this, maybe they’re a new leader. Maybe there’s someone that wants to improve their communication style. Share this podcast episode with them. And if you want to get in touch with Mihaela, you can find her at MihaelaBerciu.com. And she’s also everywhere on social, under her name, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. And in closing, if you are looking to help develop your leaders’ communication styles to help them deliver results the first time, that’s where Crestcom can help you. So head on over to Crestcom.com. We would love to come into your organization and offer a two-hour leadership skills workshop that’s fun and engaging and will leave your leaders asking for more. Until next time, everyone.

The post Intentional Communication and the Power of Words with Leadership Breakthrough Specialist, Mihaela Berciu appeared first on Crestcom International.

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The Future of Learning in Leadership with Darja Gutnick, CEO of BunchHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall. Welcome to this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast. And on this week’s episode, I sat down with Darja Gutnick to talk about the future of learning. Now, before we go into the show, I just want to remind you that every single month Crestcom offers a complimentary free to the public webinar. And coming up this month in February, on February 14th, we will be talking all about building resilience and cultivating self-love for success in the workplace. Now, this is something that I feel like I need and maybe you’re going through some challenges and maybe you transition to a new leadership role or you’re kind of doubting yourself. Come on over to the webinar, let’s see if we can give you some tools to overcome some of the obstacles that you’re facing.

Meet Darja Gutnick, Co-founder and CEO of BunchJenn DeWall: All right, now on to the show. I sat down with Darja Gutnick to talk about the future of learning. And then let me tell you a little bit more about Darja. Darja is an academic turned founder. She is the co-founder of Bunch and she works to redefine learning at work as the host of the Teams at Work podcast, the author of The Weekly Briefing, she reaches over 50,000 millennial and Gen Z professionals Weekly. And Darja and I sat down to talk about and understand what the future of work will look like, as well as the skills that we need to be learning today and the new tools that are on your horizon to being your best self. So enjoy

Darja, I’m so glad that you’re here today. I am pumped to be having a conversation on the future of learning. There is so much going on. People might be listening to this from the head space of what do I need to know to be ready for the future? Or how could I educate my teams? What do I need to know for myself? Or even heck they might be part of the layoffs that we’re seeing right now. What do I need to do to make sure that I can be hire-able? We’re gonna go there and you shared our shared an article before that we’re gonna also talk about that has been trending this week. But Darja, before we jump into it, I love a great origin story. So if you could just go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience. I know they heard a little bit about you and the opener, but I love to hear it from the guests themselves. So if you could tell us a little bit about who you are and how you came to be.

Darja Gutnick: Totally and glad to be on the show. Thank you so much for having me, Jenn. And hey everyone who’s listening my name is Darja and I am a psychologist by training. But always dabbled in the like entrepreneurialism. So I grew up with an entrepreneurial mom who has a restaurant business and a real estate business. So quite like down to earth, nothing with tech and digital things whatsoever. And it was kind of pretty normal to me, I think to serve customers and to think about customer value and things like that. But I always also had an act for people and people structures, people dynamics and things like that. And so I turned out to be always between these kind of like harder business worlds as a former consultant. And and then the soft side of things like as a psychologist.

And I also did the certification in org development and team building and leadership team climate development. And ended up doing that as a consultant at at the back of my first startup. And to be honest, Bunch, the company that we’re building today is and I, my co-founder I co-founded is basically kind of a result of me as a coach noticing that the formats we are offering as leadership developers on the market are not up to date to what consumers and the new generation of leaders, managers, and professionals need. We see digitalization and convenience and on-demand services kind of taking over in many parts of our lives, right? Like from Uber to Netflix, to other, other applications that are kind of like delivering what you need at the right moment in time. But when we think about org development, professional development, leadership development, we were still stuck in these like it’s workshops, webinars, long form programs, lots of time commitment and not as much on demand, not as much in the moment and not as much contextualized.

And so what we basically went for with Bunch is to say we provide a like truly digital, like digital first gamified in the moment tool for managers and for professionals to scale themselves up. And the last point that I want to make is that it was also really, really important to me to serve to the individual. As someone who’s worked with businesses all my life and like kind of starting my career in HR always positioned me in on the kind of the stakeholder map with like the other business executives and employees and so on. And I always had this feeling that if we don’t focus on the individual employee enough, we’ll get a bill for that later. So like if we as service providers, if we as coaches, if we as consultants approach the business stakeholder as a company only and like don’t actually start with the needs and the psychology of each individual professional in the workplace, we’ll really cut short in the solutions and the services we provide.

And I’ve seen too little on the market in the HR tech space companies and products that were really, really focused on the individual. So when we started Bunch it was really important to us to say like, we start with you as a person in the workplace with you as a human and what your needs are and what you are looking for. And then we build from that towards let’s say enterprise and business value and so on, so on. So that’s kind of how we ended up building Bunch, which is a an AI leadership coach which helps professionals particularly millennials I think, but overall professionals to upscale key skills in just two minutes a day.

The Future of Learning – AI, Apps and MoreJenn DeWall: I love that. So is it kind of like the duo lingo of leadership, you know, if you want to learn new yeah. A new language, you can invest in this and do it two minutes a day, what like, exactly. So I love the short form, right? And I, I love gamification. I appreciate that as someone that, whether it’s my Apple Watch or a Peloton or other apps that I use, I am absolutely into habit tracking. It is kind of obsessive, right? Like I can get the irk if I don’t do it. I’m like, oh gosh, I have to do this. I’m gonna lose my streak. And it’s amazing exactly how 10 years ago I didn’t care what a streak was, but now I really care what a streak is. So we’re gonna be talking all about the future of learning and I love that you shared that.

We’re gonna be talking a little bit more about Bunch and how you kind of entered that space because I love the service that you offer. But before we dive into it, I know you had sent an article and shared, and I think it’s a great article to talk about. There’s great dialogue. I have points of view on it, you have points of view and it’s, I think it’s just helpful for everyone to be able to hear. But we’re talking about the current state, today is February 8th, 2023. So just to know when this is recorded, we’re talking pretty real time of some of the changes that we’re seeing in the news on LinkedIn about big tech company layoffs. And do you wanna just share a little bit with our audience about the article that you sent with me?

The Tech Industry, Layoffs and the Learning LandscapeDarja Gutnick: Yeah, exactly. So we obviously have been going through this like consequences of market correction as a founder in a company as, as someone who received venture funding. We’ve known about the kind of upcoming like difficult time as we might call it economically since the beginning of 2022. Actually our first conversations with our shareholders around we gotta like pre prepare for the winter. Like it’s going to be tough, we need like wrong runways in actually April, 2022. And I think a lot of companies have been kind of trying to wrap their heads around what does that mean for us? What do we need to do now? How do we protect ourselves and our workforce to get through this prices period that is up and coming in, in Amer in a more stable or foundational way. And so it’s not surprising for me as a business owner and as a founder that we see waves of layoffs because we’ve had a bull market for a long time, specifically tech companies since Covid have been hiring quite aggressively.

We’ve been always on the like kind of other end of that as a small startup because we had to compete with these massive packages. Like we’ve never been able to compete with Googles and Facebook’s passages and, and it’s always like this as a small business, but I think in the last couple of years it just took a whole different like level of not only I think salaries, it’s just like the benefits and the additional kind of structures that were built around it. So it was not so surprising to me to see that companies go back to asking the question, do we really need all of this? Is it like the most efficient way to run the business? Do we, how much workforce do we actually really need? And so this isn’t surprising per se. However, what I found, interestingly, I wanted to dig into this with you when I read for the first time, I think this morning or two yesterday and morning that tech companies are speaking up about how they decide on the layoffs and who is being laid off and how the restructuring is happening behind the layoffs because it’s not small amounts of people, right?

Like it’s 10, 15% in some of the companies. It’s like massive amounts of people. And sure we can talk about how tech companies want to like let go of people that are not as performing in their contexts and things like that. But I think that’s kind of really obvious to a degree. And probably most of you out there kind of know this already, but what I think was new in this conversation recently is that I think it was Mark Zuckerberg first who basically said, we want you as a middle manager to either go back to building and become an individual contributor because you’ve been a great engineer before. You’ve been a great designer before. You’ve been a great product person before and we want you to go back there or you leave. And I think this is a very new perspective that I at least don’t remember from the crisis in 2028 in 2008 and 2009 because back then it was just kind of like random layoffs, whatever, we are just getting more efficient and it stopped there.

The Future of Leadership and Structural ChangeDarja Gutnick: But now we are seeing an actual structural change or thinking around how much structural support does an organization need? How much managerial support does an organization truly need in 2023 with all the technological development we have happening with ChatGPT, et cetera. And I’m seeing companies being more aggressive about, well maybe we want to invest in individuals and kind of like stuck tools around them, make them more performant. And maybe we wanna move away from like managerial structures as much as we’ve been building on them in the past. And I’ve found that as a psychologist and also someone who serves middle managers effectively. Really interesting because I was wondering, wow, what does that mean for our users now? And like a whole different world? Like do these people go to other, let’s say more traditional companies that still actually rely on a lot of middle managerial structures and are looking for new talent, right? Like talent with digital skills, talent with tech skills. Or are we going to see that across the board? Is this like a tech industry only thing or not? And yeah, so the these were like the first thoughts I had and I was wondering what you think about

Jenn DeWall: It. Yeah, and we talked a little bit about this and I mean, okay, if I take out the fact that people’s jobs are being lost, like I obviously have sensitivity and empathy towards that from where I sit, like living in OD or organizational development and leadership development, I have been wanting organizations to reorg for a very long time. And I know, I know I’m not alone. Like this is not a new concept for the people that are in that space. I have been wanting that because when you have individuals that are in front of you that are doing, let’s call it forced leadership development, they don’t really want to be a leader. All they want is the paycheck that comes with it. And that’s the only way for many companies that people could actually climb and be successful. And so we, whether or not we’re capable or whether or not we even want to, which are so important to behavior change, we’re thrown into that role of people leadership.

And then of course you see the turnover ramifications of that because people we know lead bad managers, not necessarily the organizations. And so I don’t necessarily, you know, I get, I I like that they’re starting to think differently. Why are we limited in how we actually exhibit or the pathways that we create for success for people? Why aren’t we allowing someone to be a great technical leader? So it’s really the difference between being a technical leader and a people leader. And yes, it’s about doing time that organizations are starting to say we value your technical expertise and we’re not gonna add the constraints and limitations and challenges of people leadership. Cause there’s often people that come into it and they’re like, Jenn, I hate this. Like I don’t wanna be, you know, everyone’s babysitter. I don’t wanna do insert all of the complaints of being a manager.

That’s what leadership is. That is what it’s, and so I get that you don’t wanna do it, but also they’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place because how do you get the compensation? How do you get the title when most organizational hierarchies are very limited in how we value someone’s strengths. And as that article said, you know, we’ll we’ll promote them into people leaders, so then we lose all that institutional knowledge in productivity and speed that they have and we are then trying to do it and then they don’t even wanna develop the next people. They don’t know how to develop it if they’re not giving leadership development. So I am here for the change. I don’t, I mean I know that that article kind of attributes to Elon Musk, but I guarantee that there are organizational development professionals that are like, finally, finally, this is hitting mainstream because we see this issue every single day we go into a learning space.

Middle Management Vs. Individual ContributorsDarja Gutnick: This is super interesting and I do think that it’s probably a quite a polarizing like point of view even though I to a certain degree agree with you or I can see that other side definitely. I, I had to like fight my first reaction of defensiveness when I read it because I’m like, oh no, like they’re already so squeezed. Like our whole takeaway, and this is a very biased perspective of a service provider to managers. We have over 70,000 users on the platform and like all we are hearing is that they don’t have enough support, they don’t have enough training, they don’t have enough mentorship, they don’t have enough feedback. And they’re so squeezed already, as you said, it’s their jobs. I agree with this 100%. And oftentimes our advice is kind of resulting in the same one, take charge, own your thing, it’s staff, but here are like tools you can use and so on.

And now with basically, I mean we’re not gonna get rid of old management. Like this is still gonna be managers, so these managers are gonna stay, they will have more pressure . That’s one consequence. I think obviously it’s not like there’s gonna be like 15 times more investment in their coaching and mentorship now, right? Like they probably will be left with whatever they had before. Plus they just have more direct reports right now and like kind of more organization to deal with. And then the other kind of half or however many will be looking for new jobs and will be asking themselves exactly these questions. Like do I go back into this? Was this a good step to begin with? Am I an actual manager or not? And when thinking this further, I actually thought, let’s say the majority of these people says no, I go back to ic in like Facebook’s case or whatever, just for,

Jenn DeWall: and I C – just for our audience – I C is an individual contributor.

Darja Gutnick: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So just, just I will be a team member again. Does like, I’m not sure we have the tools yet and I don’t know in detail meta set up here. I have been researching though for like selfish, like my own individual reasons because despite of us having a small team, we also have people on the team that are like brilliant technical contributors that are really genius at what they do and that are also trying to understand where it’s gonna, where’s my career going to go? Like and do I go into management after, do I stay in this space where I am right now where I’m like developing really cutting edge technology and like how does my career look like? And when I was researching this and I was finding like career ladders for engineers and from Uber and things like this, if you compare, so we have these two pathways, right?

Like tech companies typically have this like individual contributor progression track for engineers in particular, not for anyone else as far as I know. By the way, just for engineers, like designers or product managers, they can only be two things. Product manager, senior product manager, or they go to management. That’s it. But for engineers, we found like staff engineer, principal engineer, like we found some other things to recognize that they’re actually like really leading their field even if they don’t have direct reports. Yeah. But I had the feeling that it’s very thin there, you know, like staff in principal engineer basically there is like a few of them in every organization. Like in Uber, I don’t know, maybe there is like five principal engineers and like 20 staff engineers or whatever. But that’s basically it. And then there is a few tech leads and then like senior and middle management middle, mid-level engineers, engineer engineers.

But there is not actually that many tools to help your people understand if you are an individual contributor you are being recognized, you’re being valued, you are being respected, you have authority in your opinion. Like and I was wondering like I think to a degree those individual contributors stay around, right? Like for a long time acquire knowledge about the company, acquire context, acquire a lot of really good stuff that helps them execute on every like daily on the day-to-day.

Jenn DeWall: How do we make that visible? How do we actually make this kind of like what is the workflow component?

Darja Gutnick: Yeah. Within the organization, if I am not going to climb the management letter, which now got even more timely and there is just like not gonna be so much space because we’re flattening the organizations. How do we recognize people? How do we help them feel like they’re progressing in their careers if they’re stuck on the same levels basically? And like I think there’s a lot of exciting work to be done for OD professionals to define that. But I definitely think there isn’t that much out there right now.

The Future of Learning and Leadership in the Gig EconomyJenn DeWall: It’s, well, I think it’s because organizations just haven’t done it. They just had traditional organizational hierarchies that promote people leader, people leader. And so we all have to change our perspective and I guarantee that person that hates people leadership that just wants to go back to technical is finally like, yes, please let me focus on my strengths. Let me leverage my experience, don’t make me lead with my deficits. Which yeah, you know, sometimes when we have great technical, and this is going to sound like a very general statement and know that it’s latent with bias, but you know, some people your personality style might gravitate more towards technical R rules and that’s where you are going to be able to thrive and be your best self. And as much as we flex into different styles and we all need to do that, I can’t live there and feel fulfilled or happy or productive or successful because we’re probably struggling more than maybe the person that has that as their skillset.

I love this conversation. I’m curious to see the way that organizations adapt because it’s going to require, you know, compensation analysis of how do you comp these individuals? How do you reprogram people to even be more inclusive of individual contributors because they are the loneliest ones in the workforce. 70% of individual contributors report feeling lonely. And so how do we make sure that they feel a part of something if they are not going to be a part of a team or leading a team. Like there’s so many like little things or ripple effects that are going to happen as a result of Exactly, eventually reorging it. So let’s, let’s dive in now thinking about that future, knowing that there’s going to be a shift. I mean another curiosity would be, oh my gosh, the gig economy, how’s that gonna play into it? But I know we don’t have that much time , but going into now the future of learning, what do you think? So you alluded to this a little bit

Darja Gutnick: Actually. Wait, wait, wait. But on the gig economy part, just like, yeah, I agree. It’s a rabbit hole. Let’s not like fall into it. However,

Jenn DeWall: ,

Darja Gutnick: It makes the gig economy so much more attractive because if I am stuck in a company where I can be promoted and the management thing is like off the table right now and I am kind of like, well unless they figure out like a better comp package, unless they figure out how to make me feel seen and heard, how to make my voice in contribution, feel seen and heard, guess what I’m gonna do? I’m going to become an individual contributor, paid bigger money by my freelance clients. Which by the way, there is more than ever now again because it’s like much easier to cancel a freelance contract than it is to like, you know, get rid of an employment contract for a business. And so I will get contribution for recognition from my customers because if they love my work, they’re gonna tell me in a nice email saying, we love your work, we wanna book you again.

So like these little fit feedback mechanisms that really play a massive role in how a person decides upon their career choices and how they progress through the different seasons of their career are really, I feel underestimated and under like, overlooked or have been overlooked. And now we finally have to pay attention to them. I think otherwise we will continuously to see like the migration from people from like full-time employment into, into the gig economy and like alternative ways of employment, which I’m also very supportive of for different reasons. But like, I think it would be also a bummer if we ended up with kind of everyone fighting for themselves. So we can’t like organize ourselves around mission shared missions anymore. I also don’t think gig economy is for everyone. I think a lot of people still prefer full-time employment for different reasons. And I think we really have to figure out how to recognize people beyond the usual, you know, management ladder.

Jenn DeWall: You know, it’s interesting because we’re talking about two of the major areas that are, that have been disrupted, you know, heavily within the last few years and more heavily going forward what, what work looks like and then also what education looks like. We know that, you know, universities, everything has been upended in terms of whether it’s the shift in human behavior, the resistance to pay, you know, the expense. I mean, I am 40 and I still have student loans, so there’s a reluctance for me going into a PhD to even think, well how much money do I have to spend for that? And looking for alternative ways to be able to afford it so I can acquire that knowledge. Because for me, taking on a hundred thousand dollars in debt on top of my M B A debt is a lot. But then also within work, like, okay, if I don’t get to, I think there’s this, there’s an individual that we interviewed, her name is Dr.

Sarah Beth Burke, and she talks about being more than your title. And I think that her concept has a lot of legs. You’re seeing more and more people really want to lead with their strengths mm-hmm and want to feel seen and want to make an impact in that way. And so it’s shifting kind of what meaningful work looks like. There’s so many exciting things about how, what’s coming on the future, but I also know there’s a lot of intimidation with that stuff, right? Like cuz then it’s like how do we adapt? How do we change our organizational efforts? Like these are not small lifts, like it’s going to impact so much.

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AI and the Future of LearningJenn DeWall: Let’s, let’s dive into that future of learning. What do you think? So knowing, I mean I I know it where our attention spans are so small now we’re we dropped what, five seconds in the last 20 years from 13 to eight seconds or something and yeah. What, what does that look like if we’re thinking about software development, what what does the future look like?

Darja Gutnick: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I I think there’s a few things out there. So one we’ve been kind of already hearing about always I feel like it it, but it was kind of one of these like very niche nerd skills almost that people kind of knew is important, but it never really made the like big coming out, which was like a meta skill basically like learning how to learn new things. I remember running a study two years ago with our user base where the very first one where we were basically asking like, what do you think makes a great leader? Like list the attributes, adjectives, whatever comes to mind. And we had a lot of kind of, you know, usual suspects like emotional intelligence the ability to communicate like a vision and a direction very well, humility and so on.

But what we are seeing now is actually with ChatGPT in particular, it’s so blatantly clear that things can change within a whim and it doesn’t actually make sense to kind of invest in building up really complex hard skills like they might be replaced, like that activity you need to do might be replaced or might be at least heavily kind of assisted by technology and by ai. So it’s just so, so important to understand how you can actually integrate new tools, new tooling and new technological developments into your workflows very quickly. And anything that is complex and requires creativity and trust building, especially over remote environments and like over distance is just so, so, so important. So I think what we’re seeing is the skill to learn new things is kind of leading the pack, so to say when it comes to managerial skills and competencies.

And then the other important things are really like emotional intelligence and the ability to build trust, the ability to listen, the ability to communicate with conviction as well. I think this is kind of what of what we, what we see in terms of what actually is the content that people are looking for. But at the same time when we talk about formats and how people learn, I think nothing too surprising to be honest. When we started Bunch a few years back, it was already kind of visibly coming, but I think now everyone, everyone knows it. Anything that is on mobile or in any other way very conveniently accessible to you always trumps everything else. So like we see lots of e-learning and this is a very old term, we don’t actually use it in like EdTech anymore, but like the market reports , they use it still.

There’s this category of like e-learning which is basically everything digital. And I think we started with like web-based formats ude me and LinkedIn learning and these type of things, right? And now we moved beyond that and we moved into highly personalized, highly individualized, on demand, mobile first, with integrations into like teams and Slack and other things, formats that are really, really important and contextual to you. And then of course short formats still are like bite size learning is a, a very big trend that I think we are all seeing like stronger and stronger picking up with Bunch. It’s literally part of our core value proposition. Like become a better leader in two minutes a day. It’s very sticky. It’s one of the reasons why people download the app and it’s kind of scary actually how simple things have become. Not in terms of how simple or how easy it is to create content that actually teaches people things in that short amount of time.

It’s very hard. But consumers are looking for highly personalized guidance that can fit into their day-to-day meaning between meetings in a break before they log into Zoom on commute and really builds around them and does not require the consumer to build around the offering. So how we learn should really follow our overall habits and be as convenient as possible. So if I kind of want to headline it, I think it’s all about convenience because those people or those services and products that really can make it as easy as possible really do kind of win with I think professionals today.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, absolutely. I mean conveniences, it’s all of us, right? We have short attention spans, we want everything fast now, which can sometimes we’re, and what they’re seeing with the younger gen generations translate into is that hard is bad, hard is bad.

Darja Gutnick: Hard is bad.

Jenn DeWall: What consequence do you think that has to how we learn if we’re like, well if it’s not easy then I don’t wanna do it. Altruistically Yeah, yeah. And I, which is great, but then what, what are blind spots that could potentially be created?

The Future of Learning in the New NormalDarja Gutnick: I totally agree with like the general, you know, I know what you mean with hardest bad or like I can relate to it a lot of course, but I don’t think it’s entirely true. So what I learned about our users and also from actually a recent market report that I read from Gartner happy to send that through and link it in the show notes. I found it really interesting actually. Everyone is extremely curious about themselves and where their journey journeys going. So the majority of people in the workplace wants to learn more about themselves and how to improve. So we actually see more adoption of a growth mindset than we’ve ever seen before. So as a society and as a humanity, we actually evolved a little like we moved forward on that scale of we are here to learn, we want to mature, we want to adopt to new environments and actually make progress overall and contribute to something meaningful.

We’ve seen this with like, you know, millennial studies, like people want impact, people want purpose and so on. Like that journey continues. So I don’t know whether we are necessarily concluding people don’t wanna put in the effort, you know, it’s more that they wanna know more about themselves, they want to have meaningful journeys, they want to contribute to something bigger, but they don’t wanna do meaningless work to get there, if that makes sense. So one this report that I’m referencing actually phrased it as something like they’re so curious about all these like offerings and it’s so dramatic and tragic for this l and d market because there are so many offerings when it comes to psychometrics, when it comes to learning formats, when it comes to content. There is so much out there, but this like connection between you as a professional and this content that lies around somewhere in Google or in some book or somewhere else, it’s just too tough for you to find it.

Darja Gutnick: So you actually wanna know more about yourself and you want to learn and there is the content out there but like you don’t get together and it’s actually holding a whole industry back is how they wrote it. And I think it’s absolutely true. So I don’t want to, and I disagree with the like quiet quitting BS and things like this that we like have titled it, like I think we are misunderstanding these new generations. For them it’s really about ROI on time. It’s not that they don’t wanna do the work, they just wanna be hyper efficient in what they do and they want to really understand, maybe they understand more than we did before in previous generations. That time on earth is very, very, very limited. Everything is about to go down, right? Like there’s this wars on the horizon all the time and then there is climate change and there is pandemics and what not happened in the last five years.

So I think as a young person in the professional environment, you learn one thing. It’s like you can’t trust us, this may be over any moment. So they’re really trying to understand how can I fit everything into my day? How can I fit everything into my month and my year? Because I can’t plan 10 years in advance. I can’t plan 20 years in advance so I plan a year in advance or so, and therefore within that year my like hobbies need to fit and my partnership needs to fit and my work for the purposes I believe in need to fit my whatever volunteering activities and I also want to progress in my career. So I think it’s more about being efficient rather than not wanting to put the effort, if that makes sense.

Can We Learn Leadership from Artificial Intelligence?Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And I, the only reason I struggle with that is I go back to my 20 year old millennial self and there’s a little bit of ego, like I already know everything. Like I got this or I know what I don’t need to know. And like that was the initial resistance with millennials coming into the workforce in general, right? Like feeling like, oh I already know this because I have technology so I’ve already got this and I don’t have to like have the actual real life experience Yeah. To understand what this looks like in action with complex human emotions and decision making. And so I think about that of like, that was almost what got me into trouble in my twenties of feeling like, oh, like I, I don’t have to like have the actual like case study example in my life. Like cuz I can just learn it and then I know better.

Jenn DeWall: And so like that’s, I think of myself of being like Jenn, like this you’ll ha really have to be mindful of your blind spots because the information is available but it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have learned it yet. And I, cuz I again as someone that loves to learn, that’s al that’s always the trap that I found myself in. It’s like getting into this like I can get really educated and then I would get a reality hit of like oh okay, but I wanna talk about how AI will or like chat ChatGPT and what that looks like. So I know that Bunch leverages the power of ChatGPT and you know, you will tell me because it’s two minutes a day and I love that. I love making learning accessible for people. Absolutely. I have some reservations only because of what I’m sharing about myself, right. And how I learn and that there are blind spots there and we only rely on one way of kind of learning this information. But let’s talk about the, for those let’s level set. ChatGPT for some people is still a, what was that now? What are those acronyms? ? So what is ChatGPT?

Darja Gutnick: So chat ChatGPT is actually an application that OpenAI which is the company behind GPT and GPT-3 and similar applications developed to make their language model, which is GPT-3, usable, accessible and interactive for the common person on earth. So like they open it up so that we can actually interact with the AI model that lives behind it, which is called GPT-3. And that model has been in development for a few years and it basically is an algorithm that as far as I know soaked in lots and lots and lots of knowledge like everything that was there to know until 2021 end of year if I believe, if I remember correctly. So it’s actually a little bit like not up to date anymore. If you ask it like very funny questions from 2022, it won’t know and it will tell you like, I don’t know, I only go until 2021. But ChatGPT is just the actual like product that is a chat-based interface, chatbot, whatever you wanna call it that lives on top of this language machine learning model that OpenAI developed.

Is Using a Chatbot Just Cheating?Jenn DeWall: Yes. And for those that may have seen the news, I feel like, I’m not sure how it’s portrayed on the news in Germany, but here in the United States they’re showing the, oh my gosh, what’s going to happen to high school students because they can put in a prompt that’s, you know, how to, you know, discuss, I don’t know how to talk about the history of the United States or whatever that actually, that’s probably a dicey question, but like , any general question that they have to, you know, ask about they could actually kick back and write a paper on. And so, you know, teachers are nervous, a little nervous about copying or how the effort that will happen. And so that’s I think how that’s how it’s portrayed on our media right now is this big thing for teachers to look out for and for parents to be mindful of in terms of the workarounds to actually, like sometimes doing the work. Yeah so you can do really sophisticated things. It can write blogs. Any question that you want you can put in there and it’s cool. Yeah, it’s flipping amazing. But we also have to talk about what the opportunities are still within the platform because I think, actually tell me this, why did it just blow up in the last month for the normal person and me, myself being a typical person that’s not necessarily immersed in the tech space? Because everyone is talking about it right now.

Darja Gutnick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean GPT-3 was, this is a great question by the way because we talk about this to little, like GPT-3 was around for three, four years. I think the first time we heard about it we looked into it was 2020 beginning of the year or so. So like they’ve been working on it for a really long time and they’ve been starting to write about it in in end of 2019 I believe. So the language model isn’t like fresh, it’s actually been in development for a few years. So that, let’s put it like, let’s split it for simplicity reasons into like tech and user experience. Okay, so the tech isn’t new, in fact the tech is like from the sixties, like the idea of training language models, it’s very all like sixties probably too far. I think it’s was the eighties, it was like the, the birth period of these like language models and machine learning as an idea and so on.

And that is, there is papers that go back to like 84 or so that basically describe how G PT three could work in like simple terms. So we actually work on this for a long time. This is not super new. We didn’t have the processing power so far to actually make it all work. So one important change on the tech side of things that happened in let’s say the two thousands, it’s like we just became more bullish on using more of the earth’s resources to build more processing power and we are able to like run more powerful machines on top of that which are needed for these language models to be trained. That’s one part, but that’s not the innovation that happened in November, 2022, in November, 2022. And I think that gets recognized too little. What the team has released from OpenAI is an actual very mainstream adopted, very polished without many rough edges product that lives on that technology of ChatGPT-3.

Darja Gutnick: So when we for instance train Bunchy, which is our AI ChatGPT powered coaching assistant that interacts with our users, the majority of the development work does not go into the tech development again. Like that has been done already by other people and it’s like years of layering and layering of information intelligence. But what’s really tough is to make sure that that agent that you are developing in training responds in a way that the human doesn’t feel offended, it feels it can trust the information. It feels it’s not being biased towards one of the other specific direction and can interact with it and actually uses it in the day-to-day life. When we think about AI in like kind of let’s say 2015 till 2020 period, whether it was a big like UpSpring already, right? A lot of issues have been evolving around the UX and how clunky some of the applications were, how they, you can’t, the black box of ai, you can’t explain why it’s recommending you something, it just gives you a result. So chat ChatGPT worked a lot around those rough edges. It actually puts a lot of effort into helping you understand how it came to the conclusion. And the way they’re doing it is there is different agents for different jobs within that chat interface. So you actually just read one text, right? For you, this is one thing you interact with chatt,

Jenn DeWall: It’s the foundational piece. Where do they get the information from? Like how does it know? Like how did it start? Or get the information. Like how does that starter, like did they pick an ency? You know, not that they did Wikipedia thing, they did that do this, but it, you know, where does that start? You know, how did that information start

Darja Gutnick: This is a great question, but I assume I actually would need to look it up in to, to know in precision, this is an assumption that I’m speaking out right now, but I assume this is publicly available. Basically Googleable information around like the world that is out there. So I don’t think this is like we’re talking archives and like encyclopedias here, but like we’re definitely talking Wikipedia knowledge and other articles like anything that is accessible on the internet publicly can be scraped and accessed by anyone really in the world. And so you can actually, unless you have like, you know, like login or pay walls and other protecting mechanisms, there is a lot like majority of their internet knowledge is publicly accessible and can be actually found by anyone. And so I assume that they scooped a large part of like the world’s knowledge that is online accessible, which is why it takes a lot of time because it’s a lot of information that needs to be pre-processed and trained. But that is my assumption I would need to to look it up

Jenn DeWall: And I love that like even with Bunch that like it’s taking all of that information that is available on the internet stuff that you don’t see because it doesn’t align with your personal algorithms and now it’s in a new place where you can access that with a highly personal prompt and then it’s iterative. Right? And you can correct me any of the ways that I don’t understand this. I am not an expert in this

Darja Gutnick: . No, no. All good. This, this is actually really interesting. So chat two PT from OpenAI has one problem currently, which is what Google is trying to like bank on so to say to Outcompete. So chat two PT was first they came forward with this very like just accessible to everyone and their mom type of product like go on this like url, type in whatever you want, get response. And by the way, for everyone out there like this costs a lot of money to run. Like they are sinking tons and tons of cash into every one of us being used to it. So like I bet there is a like getting used to it period where it’s like publicly available and it’s like open and whatever. Now they’ve actually launched a premium version which is like 20 bucks a month. You can pay premium for ChatGPT and it comes with like better availability, faster responses and other benefits.

But basically what the, the limitation that it has it, it doesn’t actually connect you two things online, right? Like it just tells you hey tell me about leadership podcasts out there and then it will like find Jan and compress or like other people out there but it will not link you to the show because they don’t have access to Google’s door basically. So Google is working on Sparrow, which is basically ChatGPT for Google, but that then does include all the links and it actually meshes the format so it actually talks to you but then it gives you like bum, bum bum the three hits that are most relevant for you. And there you go to Google. So we will, we, it’s really interesting this year around AI because we’ll see a bit of a fight between chat ChatGPT and Google.

How Competition in Tech is Shaping the Future of LearningDarja Gutnick: Microsoft is doing superbly well. It wins the game every time. It like watches what like other people on Google is doing and then it just like pushes them all out of the water by like doing some cool enterprise like gimmick of like everyone who has Windows now has like teams and then goodbye Slack and things like this. So like it will be really interesting to see whose technology we really actually end up adopting long term. But the overall missing piece is really like where did these search results lead you to and coming back to the students, right? If you write this article right now, if you’re like in a good school you still need to actually find all the source information . Yeah because it’s referencing get lot of papers and you need to go back and go to Google and like, oh my God, if you don’t find the paper you’re like oh I need to change that part now.

So it’s actually not as like convenient yet. But like with the Google thing it will be super convenient. And so what we do with Bunches for us it actually solves a very particular problem. Part of the Bunch offering is that you have this 24 7 coaching hotline, it’s transactional coaching so that you typically use case, I have a meeting coming up with my boss tomorrow I need to give them feedback. I don’t know how, I’m a little bit nervous, what should I do? And then we coach them through using a few coaching frameworks. Basically rel like chat-based coaching relative straightforward. We have tons of transcripts that we use to train panchi our AI powered assistant coach to basically learn what tone of of voice we use, what questions we use and so on. And she then pulls in our tip library, she then pulls in our podcast episode, she then pulls in our content that is basically our proprietary IP to link the user back into those content pockets where they can learn more about something.

And I think this is actually the really interesting use case for most like let’s say vertical or niche kind of applications. Like if you have a very topical application, let’s say you have a recipe database or something like that, the real like cool use case is to go in if you don’t wanna search for whatever reason, if you just wanna say I wanna do this like Pastor Bologne, like you get a little chat with someone and it actually just links you to the right two recipes that are like the coolest ones for you in that moment. And it just shortcuts the search, you know, going for the database, whatever. So it’s actually aux improvement mostly. Like it makes it just so more accessible to find the right information at the right time. And how people use it really kind of not only depends on this OpenAI technology, but like the UX around it, what use cases it serve, does it link into additional resources or not big difference and like how we can actually work around that and limitations there.

Leaders Still Have to do the Work – Ethics and AIJenn DeWall: I mean I love it. And my last question, knowing that we have to add, you know, I love the, again, the information. Heck yes. We get to learn so much and it’s so personal and relevant to us and as I sit here I’m like, oh my gosh. And I, I tried to look up some of the, the other side of ChatGPT because I can see all the benefits of how it works. And then I was looking up, okay, like what, what are the unintended consequences of what that is? And there’s, you know, there’s there and there’s still working through this, there’s a ton of bias on there. I just read something about they had it right, you know, job descriptions and the job descriptions came back incredibly sexist. And so there still is that, so what would be a recommended, we have that, what else do you think someone needs to do to make sure it’s actually relevant in the, in the real world too? Because I, I think there’s still a space for that human interaction to talk about what that, you know, information means. But how do you, how would you advise someone to take that but then also make sure that they’re on the right path in terms of their own comprehension?

Darja Gutnick: Yeah, I mean I think there is no easy answer here. And I think we’re back to like ethics in AI type of conversations. Where there isn’t like any easy answers in shortcuts. And we talk about this all the time as well. Like we started of course training Bunche with our internal resources and there is limited perspectives. Like we don’t, for instance have a person of color coach and therefore we reach out to our community of authors and content creators right now, but there are people of color and our coaches and pull them in and basically say, well we now need to actually do reviews with these people because we are not otherwise we’re presenting so many points of view. And this is, I think what it will come down to. Like I actually think in some ways AI makes a case for diversity because the only thing we can do, do as humans is to offer a unique point of view.

And that is really important from like not only a, you know, ethical perspective but also from a business perspective because we have a market with many people inside of it. So we will have different needs in order for us to actually keep tabs on those needs. We need to keep diversity in our points of view. And the big problem with the AI as it is today, it’s, and it all is statistically based, statistics always have regression to the mean. So it always will kind of try to hit something that is like correct for 70% of the cases we correct for 70% of the people and we’ll always have the underrepresentation problem. So we’ll we keep, we have to keep kind of course correcting constantly because we’re trying to achieve the impossible. We are training a statistically based algorithm that regresses to the meme by definition, like it is trying to hit the average and satisfy everyone and with that produce personalized services and make kind of like satisfy personalized n needs and personally different needs. So it’s an interesting kind of it requires an interesting collaboration between the algorithm, which is typically the picker. So like they pick the content, the recommendation, right? Like they choose what to present to you and one point in time and the content database, which is basically needs to be fed through diverse points of view because otherwise you’ll end up with just bias stuff and

Jenn DeWall: Confirmation bias has to live in there, right? Because I

Darja Gutnick: Exactly. Like bias

Jenn DeWall: Though every space for like the counterpoint within it of saying, okay, here’s the stuff, but now here’s something you might also want to consider. Like, is that part of the technology too to help

Darja Gutnick: Exactly understand, to give you a very specific example, like, and again, I don’t have all the answers and I’m not even an expert in the field. I think there are people that are really focused on ethics and AI and like I’m just trying to keep up with it and kind of read their content. Yeah. But what we are doing basically is we validate topic selection and strategies when we produce new content, when we add to the library in Bunch, we of course we have like this content analytics process where we go through like what is actually being read, what is being saved, what is being abandoned, what is being searched, what is actually talked about in the media, what is being searched on Google? And there’s like all these different sources. And then we kind of like synthesize, synthesize, synthesize into like what challenges our users have.

And then we come up with a short list. Now that short list like almost never includes inclusion, like how to build an inclusive team is not a top of mind challenge for managers. Just just like unfortunately the truth. So every time we do this exercise, I sit there and I’m like, I’m not going to like accept that now, right? I’m going to prioritize inclusive content anyways, and add it into the job free topics. It’s not our number three topic. Like we’re basically picked two topics that are validated by user demand plus how to build an inclusive culture and we just keep feeding it in. And you know, the funny part is sometimes those pieces of content are the most successful ones. But if you would go by the majority, like the majority of management is not looking for how to make teams more inclusive on average.

Of course we have user challenges coming to us. Like how do I address this type, like racist comment, how do I deal with this bias situation? How do I deal with that? And this is like it’s a really difficult yeah, kind of moment. I think for me as a founder always where I’m like, yeah, I’m going against my customer’s needs here. I’m doing this. Yep. I’m taking a political stand, therefore you will help after race inclusive content. But I don’t, I like, I don’t have any other solution, you know, like I know there’s a bias if I don’t actually offer this topic, we’ll never like upgrade our knowledge on it. And I will continue to have users writing me about how to address racist comments and they don’t know how to give that feedback to their managers and we won’t move forward. And so that’s kind of, I think we are looking like we, we are all using pragmatic solutions in the field. There isn’t like one shortcut or kind of best ideal solution or ideal kind of playbook to deal with this overall. But I think it’s really important to have advisory boards, ethical boards, just stakeholders in your development process that represent different points of view. I think that’s like the main takeaway. If you’re developing AI technology and you are not working with diverse points of view, you are creating more problems in the world than you’re making a positive impact in my opinion.

Face to Face Conversations Will Always Be a Part of LeadershipJenn DeWall: Yeah. And if you’re a leader, you’ve got to get out there and actually have conversations with people. You can’t rely solely on one thing or check your sources, you know, do your best to make an informed decision. Check the counterpoints. Try to be aware of your own biases that might come into play and develop your own self-awareness because you know, that’s, it can, again, I’m saying this from a 20 year old self that had not great self-awareness, but a high learning desire and there is still a place where, you know, ask other people, have conversations with people, you know, there’s so much information available to us. Darja, how can people learn more about Bunch? How can they get in touch with you?

Where to Find More From Darja GutnickDarja Gutnick: Totally easy. Actually. I am to be found on LinkedIn with my name Darja Goodnick. If you want to unplug it into the show notes, super happy to hear from everyone and just add me on LinkedIn drop a little note and I’ll, I’ll definitely respond. Super active there. And of course on the Bunch side it was really important to us that everyone can get access to this knowledge and information. We are all about democratizing leadership knowledge, therefore you can download it for free on the App Store. If you go to the app store and you just enter Bunch Coach or Bunch Leadership or Bunch Work, you’ll find us and you can download it. There is a premium plan, but you don’t have to use it. You can totally also stick to the free version and check it out and let us know what you think!

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, I love it. Go out there, learn, learn, learn, learn. I mean, if you’re not growing, you’re dying. That’s one of my favorite quotes. Darja, thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciated the conversation. I know I asked questions cuz I still am learning this and I’m like, I have, I have no idea. There’s so much here to like understand. So I just appreciate you even having and bearing with my level of not comprehension and just intrigue. And I just, I really enjoyed the conversation and thanks for getting it started for people to know, hey, another tool that’s out there and b, what to be prepared for in terms of how the workforce is changing. I really appreciated your expertise and your insights and just thank you for coming on.

Darja Gutnick: Thank you so much for asking amazing questions and first principle questions are always the best ones. So thank you so much Jenn, for going all the way in and digging into it with me.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of a Leadership Habit podcast. I have so many questions about really understanding Chat. ChatGPT. I get that it’s going to give us so many great ways to learn new ideas. And then also I wonder what will that mean for human intervention? What will that mean for our relationships? What does that mean for how we even learn now? I hope you enjoyed this conversation and if you want to check out and learn more about the app that Darja and her team has created, Bunch, you can download the Bunch AI Leadership Coach for free on the app store. And of course, if you know anyone that might enjoy this conversation that’s living in the learning space and is curious about the changes that are coming down the pipeline, share this with them. And if you like this episode, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service. And of course, if we can help you with your leadership development needs to have those conversations to develop and give you the tools and skills to thrive for the future of work, head on over to Crestcom.com. We would love to have a conversation with you about how we can help develop your leaders. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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Improve Your Communication Skills by Raising Your AQ with Dr. Brian GlibkowskiHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall. Welcome to this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast. We are going to be talking all about your AQ, which is your answer intelligence. And to have that conversation, I sat down with Brian Glibkowski, the founder, the creator of this concept, the AQ, our answer intelligence.

Check Out Crestcom’s Free Monthly Webinars!Now, before we go into the show, I just want to remind you that every single month Crestcom offers a complimentary free-to-the-public webinar. And coming up this month in February, on February 14th, we will be talking all about building resilience and cultivating self-love for success in the workplace. Now, this is something that I feel like I need, and maybe you’re going through some challenges, and maybe you are transitioning to a new leadership role, or you’re kind of doubting yourself. Come on over to the webinar. Let’s see if we can give you some tools to overcome some of the obstacles that you’re facing.

Meet Dr. Brian Glibkowski, Creator of Answer Intelligence (AQ)Jenn DeWall: All right, now on to the show. Let’s talk about how we can raise our AQ or our answer intelligence. Now let me tell you more about today’s guest, Brian Glibkowski. Dr. Brian Glibkowski is passionate about the role of questions and answers in business and society. His journey started with his research on questions. He authored an article on questions that has been recognized by the Association of Human Resource Development as one of 10 articles that will shape the 21st century.

His new book is Answer Intelligence: Raise Your AQ. The book introduces a new science of answers and was a finalist for two major book awards in 2022. The AQ framework has been adopted by universities, including the Imperial College of London Business School. It’s a global top 20, and certified AQ partners use AQ in 14 countries around the world. Listen up, get out a pen. I am so excited to bring this conversation to you. I, myself, was fascinated by thinking through so many things that we do, whether it’s how to approach a one-on-one meeting or how to influence someone to take our idea. This framework can work for you. So listen up and enjoy as we talk about developing and improving your answer intelligence.

Brian, I am so excited to talk about AQ. Ever since we met for our pre-call, I was, I don’t know, I maybe inspired is the right word of thinking. Wow, what is AQ? How can I actually improve the way that I communicate? So I’m so excited to bring forth something that, I mean, I’ve never heard this before. I guarantee you many people that are listening right now may have never heard of this concept called AQ, and we’re gonna get into that. But before we go into further, and maybe you’ll, you’ll talk about that in your origin story. I wanna give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to our audience. So love a great origin story. Brian, tell us about yourself and how you came to be on your journey to AQ.

What Comes After Who, What, Why, Where, When and How?Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Thanks, Jenn. I appreciate it. You know, my background’s in academia. I was a management professor, and I, my origin story is I conducted research on questions and published that in academia. And I came to one obvious conclusion. We know a lot about questions, and you go back to grade school, you learn about the six W/H questions and open and closed questions. And it really hit me.

We know a lot less about answers, and I wanted to study answers. And I interviewed and studied the top golf instructors in the world and developed this framework, which I call answer intelligence. Consists of six answer types, story metaphor, theory, concept, procedure, and action that connect to questions. And that really got me going, I wrote a book, then a TEDx and now we have partners in 14 countries that are using this framework to help others create more influence in the world around them by providing elevated answers to important questions. So that’s my origin story and sort of where I am right now.

Jenn DeWall: No, I love the work that you do. I congratulate your global success as well with. I think the world could very much benefit from raising their AQ or their answer. And tell us. So when you think about what was the initial pain point, what did you notice? Were you thinking, I have watched way too many, you know, media or press interviews or heard way too many not great answers, or what kind of excited you to say, you know what, there’s gotta be a better way?

Learning How to Give Better Answers to Improve CommunicationDr. Brian Glibkowski: You know, I think a lot of research starts with self-reflection. And you know, as a management professor, you’re, you’re trained on things like the research question and you know, questions are important and like you developed a, I developed surveys. What are surveys? They’re questions. And the more I did this, the more I realized that it wasn’t necessarily the questions that people are really interested in. When someone hired me, for example, to do a consulting project, they had questions, you know, they wanted to understand why their employees were leaving, and as simple as it sounds, but it was always the answers I provided that influenced them. And the more I reflected on this, the more I realized that your ability to provide answers determines if you succeed or not. And, and if we can apply like a rigorous approach towards it, maybe we could be more effective.

And it is sort of this sort of emerging sort of belief that, that sort of inspired me forward. And maybe I could give you an example to illustrate. We’ve all been in job interviews, right? , and as a candidate, whether you’re a junior person or a senior person, you can ask great questions on the interview, right? I could be a candidate, I can ask you, you know, what’s it like to work at the company? You know, how do you do things here? You know, you know, what’s your purpose, etc. But ultimately, what’s gonna determine if you get the job or not, is your ability to provide answers. So if I can convey a leadership story or I’m a leader, or I can explain the procedure of how I lead a meeting, or I can describe a key action that unlocks a project, is these answers that convey competence. And it’s these answers that determine whether or not they’re gonna hire you. And and hopefully that makes sense.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely. But I’m curious, where do you think people get it wrong? Because I know, and in our pre-call we talked about examples where people really maybe weren’t thinking about their answers or they thought they were answering or thinking of one particular question, and then they get in that moment where either nerves or stress or, you know, the stakes are higher and our answers are not where we want them to be. What are some common missteps that you notice people making in terms of how they answer or how they do this? And again, why does it matter? So I guess that’s, I stacked questions there, but where are some common areas that you notice and then we’ll go into? Why does it matter?

The 6 Answer Types: Story, Metaphor, Theory, Concept, Procedure and ActionDr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, I mean, I’ll, I’ll point out two things I think versus the lack of awareness. So we’re all trained on questions. You know, you may even, you know, think about the questions that you might be asked by someone, you know, and list out those questions, but we never really think about the type of answers we’re gonna provide. And I think of, you know, there’s these six answer types that I’ve mentioned. Story metaphor, theory, concept, procedure in action. And I like to say, unless you have a target to aim at, how are you gonna hit the bullseye? You know, so you think of these six answers, these are, you know, bullseye to hit. And if you’re a new leader and you’re thinking through what is leadership to you? Why should I lead? How should you lead? You have to think about the different types of answers that you need to connect to.

So for example, if you ask me what leadership is, you know, I might say as a concept, you know, leadership is inspiring others and holding them accountable. There’s more to it than that. But I might say as a metaphor, it’s like two ropes. When the ropes are separate, they’re strong. When they’re braided together, they’re stronger. I’m gonna try to inspire and hold you accountable each meeting. If I’m a leader, I need to ask myself this question, what is leadership? And I can provide a concept and metaphor answer. You may disagree with my answer, but it shows I have command. Now imagine if you’re, you know, reporting to me and we’re meeting for the first time over lunch, and I lean in and I tell you that metaphor that I’m gonna try to inspire and hold you accountable each meeting, you know that couple with other answers, you know, a nice story, a procedure of how I’m gonna do this.

And all of a sudden your belief in me goes up. I have credibility, I’m answering with gravitas. And I think to answer your question, you know, one reason people make mistakes with answers is they’ve never systematically thought about being intentional with their answers. It’s just sort of an afterthought. But you have to be deliberate and intentional. And when you do, you can influence. So that’s my my first response.

And maybe if I could give you one other thing that I think trips people up is that we’re so used to focusing on questions and we don’t open our mind to the idea that the quality of our answers really matter. But I would say, you know, think about, you know, your a recent dinner conversation you had or a conversation you wanna have with a friend over dinner. What do those conversations look like? They’re balanced. Both sides speak about equally. Both sides ask and answer questions about equally. So if we’re gonna operate effectively in conversations, we have to have control and mastery of questions and answers.

So I think it’s about people opening up to the idea that our answers create influence and they’re important. And then once you take ’em seriously, you start to become a student of answers and you become more deliberate, more intentional, and you’re, you’re just better.

What do People Get Wrong about Giving Great AnswersJenn DeWall: I love that. And so you also, you answered that why. And so, you know, it’s our influence, it’s our ability to build trust of all the benefits of why we need to be more intentional with our words. In your experience, we’re gonna ask the tough questions. Where have people gotten it wrong? You know, if someone’s thinking, is that really me? Where have you seen people really misstep the power of having the right answer or having a thought-out answer?

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, I think it’s, you know, sometimes people have a singular answer. Like if I ask you you know, why do you wanna be a leader in this company? Maybe you tell a great story, but then you can’t transform that story into procedure of how you’re actually gonna lead the meeting differently. You know, or you, you just have blind spots in how you think about things. So take employee engagement. You know, I’ll, I’ll ask executives. I have in the past, they get excited about employee engagement and then I ask them, what is employee engagement? And they can’t really define it. They’ll say, well, our employees are smiling. And if you think of employee engagement, those that really understand it, they can break it down. They’ve thought about the answer. And as a concept, they might say, you know, engaged employees are those that are cognitively engaged.

They think about the job all the time, and they’re physically engaged, they have the energy to do the job, the stamina to stay until it’s done. They’re emotionally engaged. When the company does well, they’re excited when it does poorly. They’re, they’re sad. Unless an executive has that command of what engagement is, it’s they’re gonna suffer when they’re trying to influence others. Because if I know that engagement is cognitive, physical, and emotional, then when I start to talk about procedures to do this, I know what my targets are. You know, I’m deliberate about this. If you just have this vague sense of, of leadership or engagement, you influence and it’s about having command of all the answers and being very thoughtful is how you operate in the world. Does that make sense?

Practicing Your Answers Will Improve Your Communication SkillsJenn DeWall: Yeah, absolutely. Now, one question I have is like, is this a challenging concept for people in the sense of saying, how do I actually do this? I might be a, a fast talker used to just responding very quickly, not taking the power of the pause. I might also just not even think that, oh, does it really matter? And so as we’re thinking about this, what’s the difficulty to then slow down your process and how you think about this and kind of approach it in this new way? What obstacles have you seen people run into?

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, I think one natural reaction is, wow, there’s six answer types. I haven’t thought about this before. That’s a lot for me to keep in my head at one time. Or maybe you know, I’m used to telling stories, but I’ve, I’ve never really tried metaphors before. You know, can I do that? So it’s sort of getting outta your comfort zone. And the way I like to describe that is, you know, let’s go back to interviews. I mean, when you’re a junior person in the job market, what do you do? Interview number one, you try a story, maybe it doesn’t land. Interview number two, you try a different story. And then interview number three, you get a nice story. And then you’re using that same story for subsequent interviews. What you’ve just done there is trial and error. And you know, if stories are important. Now imagine if you have that same sort of experimental nature for different answer types, like metaphors or procedures or actions.

So you just start experimenting and all a sudden you’re gonna be surprised with which type of answers work. And the other thing is just, you know, with practice it, you get that muscle memory and you start to experiment. And before you know it, you’re using the different types of answers and it’s effective. I think it’s, it’s just getting out there trying these answers and you’ll be surprised with how effective you can be.

Jenn DeWall: I love that. Let’s, let’s unpack this a little bit. So I know you said the six areas before the six areas are theory, story, metaphor, action, procedure and concept. If it’s okay with you, can we talk just at a high level of what those even mean at, for the ones that maybe are, are not as, oh, what’s theory or what’s concept? What’s the difference between theory and concept? Let’s go a little bit and to talk about what those are. Let’s talk about theory. What type of an answer type is theory? How do you respond with a theory?

Improve Communication by Choosing Your Answer Type CarefullyDr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, maybe if we could, I would suggest maybe we start with the, the what questions and, and then work our way around. Maybe start with, you know, let’s take leadership. What is leadership? So as a concept we can define that, you know, you know, and, and break it down like I was talking about inspiring others and holding them accountable. Then you can have metaphors that explain aspects of the concept. So in, in different metaphors matter for different times, like to give you something new. Let’s imagine we’re talking about leadership. I’m explaining to someone what a new leader, what leadership is. I define it, but then I maybe give a metaphor that might help that new leader. For example, I might say leadership is like gardening. You can water and feed the plants, but they don’t always grow. That’s a powerful metaphor for a new leader because a new leader is gonna realize pretty fast that their efforts to try to lead others aren’t, is not always successful. So, you know, you’re, you can provide a concept and a metaphor to any what question, you know? And, and then, you know, w would, would you wanna go up to theory then next perhaps?

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And so for those that are on our listening journey, he, we have the wheel of the six answers and of the six answers, they’re divided between the what, why, and how. So the two that we just talked about we’re concept and metaphor. And those are what based answers, or I guess what based question answers? Yeah, let’s go into the why where it’s theory and story.

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah. And also for, for the listeners, you can think of like, like the body and exercising, like you have your core, that’s the what question. You need to understand the concept and metaphors. Then you can, let’s say, move up to the, the upper body, which would be the why. And let’s say the lower body is the how at some point the metaphor breaks down, but it is sort of fun. So if you go up to the why question, it’s questions about, you know, why questions about leadership, why is leadership important? You know, and, and a theory is a basically a cause and effect. Logic, you could say leadership is important cuz that leads to job performance. Leadership is important cuz it leads to lower turnover. It’s, it’s your basic logic. You have it’s theory is also similar to strategy. So you need to know sort of the cause and effect logic.

And just to make this point clear, and I worked with a company one time on employee engagement and it’s sort of common knowledge. You think employee engagement leads to like higher job performance, right? That’s a theory. Well this bank in Canada, they looked at business business analytics for their own firm and they found no relationship between employee engagement and job performance. And if that’s true, that’s basically saying that that common theory doesn’t apply in our environment. And that’s something to convey that if you wanna increase engagement, if you’re trying to increase performance, maybe that’s not the right angle. Maybe employee engagement leads to lower turnover. Maybe that makes sense.

But it’s basically sharing your logic with others. That’s what theory is. And then story is sort of we all know what stories are, but stories sort of explain, relate to that theory and sort of intuitive way that involves development over time with characters and reversal. So, you know, often you hear of the moral of the story that’s sort of equivalent to the theory. The theory is sort of the more logical answer. And then the story is sort of the moral of the story. You know, it takes the answer of the why question wraps it with sort of emotion. So it’s a different way of conveying that answer, if that makes sense.

Improve Your Communication by Using Metaphor, Theory and Story EffectivelyJenn DeWall: Yeah. What about for the people that might think aren’t stories and metaphors the same? Because I definitely know that I’ve heard that. I’m like, what’s the difference between? Aren’t they both kind of implying a story or a call to action or a lesson? What do you see in your experience as the biggest difference between a story and a metaphor?

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, I’ll give you an example then I’ll explain it. And one thing I’ll say before I get into it is that with this framework we take something we’ve taken for granted that, you know, an answer is an answer and we don’t distinguish between types. But once you start to lay out this framework, there are different answer types. So lemme give you an example just a high level. We all know the story of Romeo and Juliet, right?

Jenn DeWall: Yeah.

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: The metaphor for Romeo and Juliet is starcrossed lovers. So the story and metaphor are related, but distinct. A metaphor helps us understand a concept like leadership. You know, with gardening the story, you know, sort of has cause and effect to it. It’s basically showing, you know, you know, maybe you give a story about how leadership leads to performance, and that’s separate from a metaphor of what leadership is. So it’s two different ways to convey information. They’re related but distinct. The same way that the story of Romeo and Juliet is different from the metaphor of star crossovers. They’re getting at common things, but you know, they serve different purposes. So for example, let’s say, let’s say we’re talking about trust. You know, we could talk about a metaphor for trust. You know, a consultant once told me is, we’re a trusted advisor. We are the third card in the Rolodex behind the lawyer and the accountant, then us.

That’s a metaphor. Separately, as an organization, you can tell a story about how you’re the trusted advisor, right? And unpack that. But the two are different answers. They compliment each other, but are distinct. And just to put a punchline on this, if you’re an organization, let’s say in sales that uses stories, that’s wonderful. Think about using metaphors. The more compact, they’re easier to tell, lower skill level for someone to tell it often and they answer different questions. So that’s just something to add to your portfolio to create an emotional connection. So that’s the difference between story and a metaphor.

Jenn DeWall: No, and thank you so much for walking that through, because I think that often is a misconception that people have is lumping them together. And, and you know, again, based on the the AQ diagram, you know, metaphor is there to describe a concept. Your story is there to reinforce a theory.

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How To Improve Communication with Procedure and Action AnswersJenn DeWall: Now, if we’re going into the how, those are procedural and action, and so let’s go into those now, let’s

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Go into that and let’s introduce some, some new material. So a new ground. So let’s imagine we’re all in a training and you know, everyone listening here is, is in mentoring training, you’re about to be a mentor at your company and you have an initial question. It could be explicit or implicit. What is mentoring? Now as a trainer? I could answer this and I could say as the what question is a concept? Mentoring is helping others become their better future selves at work and in their careers. You know, emphasis on future. And I could say mentoring consists of three dimensions as a concept, career support, social support, and role modeling. You know, I could talk about it some more, but you have a fairly good idea what mentoring is separate from that. The how question is different. So I talked about social support, maybe your initial reaction and you raise your hand is, how do I provide social support?

I need to explain the procedure to do that and or the actions. So it’s a procedure. I can say you can provide social support with an open door policy. So let’s assume we’re back in the office and I could say, here’s the simple procedure. Step one, you have your door open. Step two, someone comes in to talk to you about an issue. And step three is you ask them, will this take less than five minutes? Let’s meet now more than five minutes, let’s meet at a different time. And if it’s less than five minutes, step four, you meet right there. And this is particularly important for social support because social support, you need the support when the issues occur, right? You’re feeling anxious, you have anxiety, you wanna go in that office and have that open door experience right away. And as much as possible, we were trying to wanna facilitate that.

That’s a procedure. Those are the steps. The actions are anything that occurs within the steps. So something key you can do to an action to make the procedure effective. So for example, if I have that open door procedure, open door policy procedure, and you come in and I am, you know, focused on my emails while you’re talking to me, that’s not gonna work. So a key action is, you know, turn off your monitor. And actually turn it off because you’re signaling to them, not only am I paying attention to you, I’m doing it so explicitly, my monitor is off, I’m not even gonna glance at it. It’s an intentional action that can really convey how important someone is. Would that be an example of the procedures and the actions? So let me pause there and see if you have any questions about that.

Jenn DeWall: No, I mean I love that and I actually just love that tip of if we’re working in a face-to-face setting, turn off your monitor. Yeah, because I can’t tell you how many times when I was in the office if I was going to ask someone a question and they couldn’t be bothered to look up from their computer. And this was one of the fastest ways for me to perceive, oh, so you don’t care what I have to say or why I have an issue. Okay, well maybe this doesn’t matter then, or just to, you know, it kind of just erodes I guess the trust and credibility within that relationship because I know that someone doesn’t necessarily value or want to take the time for what I have to say. Yeah. Which is totally fine if I’m talking nine nonsense, but not if I’m trying to actually ask for support or you know, anything as it relates to being able to move a job or a project or task forward. Now, one of the, so there’s six ways that we can approach it, and I think that for most people you might be like, holy cow, I was really living in metaphor land or I was in story and now I have to think about doing all six of these. That feels really overwhelming. So what is the kinda starting point to get us, I guess, more comfortable with accessing these six levels? How do you recommend people embedding this into maybe their communication style?

Develop and Practice Answers Ahead of TimeDr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, I think a couple ways, you know, to answer that one I think is thinking about you know, before conversation, during and after. So you can use it for preparation. So let’s say that I wanna be a better leader, you can ask and answer your, your for yourself basic leadership questions. What is leadership? Why is why am I an effective leader? How do I lead you? Develop the six answers, write it down, think about it and refine them. You know, maybe that metaphor’s not quite right for you. What’s the right metaphor for you? And you can start to do some simple things like Google, you know, leadership and metaphor or use chat G P T and say, leadership metaphors, come up with 10 of ’em, which ones do you like? And all of a sudden you, you then, or first in the preparation phase, you, you, you apply answers towards yourself.

And that’s self-awareness. Then once you’re aware of your own leadership style, you can manifest it, you know, an influence and you can start to have it come out in everything you do. And then, you know, use AQ. So that’s preparation then, then try these out in actual conversations. Look for those opportunities to convey to people, here’s how I’m gonna lead you, you know, practice it, and then when you’re done reflect on it, you know, so the, the, the short takeaway, there’s just three phases, but if you wanna just get started, take something very important to you and try to write down and define six answers for it. And I think you’ll have a profound impact on how you think about something that that’s important to you. So whether it’s leadership or another applications in sales, you know, imagine if you’re an organization, can you communicate your value proposition in terms of six answers. Most organizations will say, oh my gosh, I never thought about that before. You know, we may have a couple stories, but wow, we don’t have a portfolio of metaphors. We need that. Right? You know, and so, you know, just that’s, so that’s the first tip is, you know, be systematic on something very important to you. Develop six answers and just try it.

Jenn DeWall: So hypothetically, you know, by design, if I was a leader and I needed to make a announcement about a particular change where I needed them to maybe adjust a procedure that they were doing, which might take more time, how I’m understanding that is you could take this change initiative that you want to influence people to do or adapt. And you could start and say, okay, now let me put this into the AQ framework that Brian has created. And I’ll start with the theory and then the story and then going into the concept and the metaphor. So hypothetically, you could build an entire meeting structure around all six of these. Am I getting that right?

Improve Communication at Meetings by Raising Your AQDr. Brian Glibkowski: That’s correct. You know, partners that do board facilitation using AQ. So what is an effective meeting? It’s one that asks and answers all the questions. And particularly a very important meeting, you wanna cover all the answers, at least to some degree. We’ve all been in meetings where, you know, Susan tells a the story, then Joe tells the story, and then Billy tells the story and then the meeting’s over 45 minutes later, you know, that’s simply because the facilitator didn’t have the presence to say, we’ve got stories. Let’s look at the different answer types, you know, oh, Billy, nice story. It seems like you’re talking about leadership. What do we mean by leadership? Right? You know, oh, what’s a procedure we could use to, to, you know, roll out the product, you know, effectively. So yeah, you can use all six answers.

The other thing I’ll say is there’s colors. When you look at the wheel on our website, there’s red, yellow, and blue answers that, that have different meaning. So when you provide answers the story and metaphor that creates emotional connection and connection to experiences, that’s important. When you provide the analytical that allow this theory and concept, the yellow that allows you to explain and predict, then you can provide the blue answers, the practical, it helps get work done. So procedures and actions. So in total, you need all of these answers to navigate important conversations. And this gives you a framework to think through the different answers, the type of influence you wanna have. And it’s up to you as a communicator to sort of leverage the framework to influence.

Jenn DeWall: I love that. I mean, I just love that this is a prescriptive model that you can follow because I, the other thing that’s coming to mind for me is thinking about different thinking styles or learning styles or, you know, I’m married to an engineer, I am the opposite of an engineer. We hear and we learn completely different. But by addressing these six answers, it feels like you’re almost creating an opportunity for more people to hear you because you’re speaking their language, which is really, really cool. And it’s a framework. I love that.

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: You know, and one other tip to, you know, to to be heard is this, this is a framework that works one-on-one and also works on one to many. So if you’re presenting to a larger group, all else being equal to your point, there’s individuals that prefer different types of answers. So it’s even more important to provide different answers throughout the meeting to sort of appeal to everyone. You know, like for example, you know, let’s imagine you’re advising someone, we’re going back to the office after Covid, the CEO gets up there and it’s an all hands meeting. Of course you’re gonna tell a story, and people would probably think about that, you know, before or without AQ. You know, remember when back in the day we were live in person and this great stuff happened. And by the way, I’m not advocating going back to the office, but let’s say

Jenn DeWall: . Yeah. There are people that are like, absolutely not Brian. That’s not happening , right?

Raising Your AQ to Build InfluenceDr. Brian Glibkowski: Imagine if you’re this, this CEO or someone who wants to influence, you know, yes, you wanna be intentional, so tell the story. But guess what? If you’re not careful, you might not answer the how question you, you better answer the how question. So the CEO implicit or explicit, how are we going back? CEO needs to say, month one we’re doing this. Month two, we’re doing this, month three we’re doing this. Because the heck creates credibility. If you don’t answer the how question at a high level, what are people gonna say? They’re gonna say, nice story, but they really haven’t thought this through. They’re not serious about this. So it’s your ability to be intentional and know, you know, how you use different answers and which combination, which level of emphasis that’s gonna determine if you’re influential or not.

Jenn DeWall: I mean, I really do love this. It’s a framework and yeah, you could use it in a coaching conversation. How are we going to do this? Also, as you know, I was looking at this even thinking about, I wonder if this could be a level of checks and balances in our own strategic or strategy meetings where we’re thinking, like, for example, one thing that I think that some organizations maybe aren’t doing well is how they actually develop leaders and being able to talk about mental health. We have a really big why of what matters that we need to do it, but they don’t always answer the what and the how. But we have I would say that I’ve seen more communication strategies that really get into the why, but then they fail to really answer the how. And so you have leaders that are like, okay, I know that this is important, but I still don’t know how to talk about this at work, , so is this, could it be used as like a stress test too, to be like, how, how sound is our logic? If we’re looking at a problem, I’m, I, and I’m processing this to think of there are so many different ways to apply this.

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Like, like for example, you’re absolutely right. You know, if you can’t ask and answer all the questions, you don’t understand something, you know, look for the weaknesses or you wanna surface implicit answers, like take mental health. Many of us have the metaphor of the puritan work ethic ingrained in us so much that everything we’re doing is sort of going against sort of mental health that we’re sort of grinding ourself into the ground. But unless we can surface that metaphor, you know, and replace it with something else, then we’re gonna be sort of, you know, you know, just a servant to these implicit metaphors and mental models we use. So this is a way to surface things and say, wow, Puron work ethic is having this insidious impact on you. And, you know, and you know, let’s change it. But if you can’t surface all these answers and you can’t, can’t take control of ’em, then you’re never gonna be effective in mental health or leadership or whatever. It’s

Jenn DeWall: Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. The last thing, cause I know we have to wrap up, but I have to ask this because I bet that there might be someone that picks up and is like, I am going to raise my AQ. I’m gonna think about what I have to do. Think about the theory, think about the story, the metaphor. They’ll do all the things, how do they make sure that it’s actually the right story or the right metaphor or the right way to do it? And I know I can’t go fully into the example that I shared with you on our pre-call, but even thinking through like how do you tell someone, or what advice would you have for someone to double check that the stories actually a right fit given, you know, the topic, the audience, any advice or tips that you have for people to kind of, you know, just double check their story before they actually test it live?

Test Your Answers for Effectiveness and AppropriatenessDr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, you know, I’ll say, you know someone you have understanding for something when you can communicate in all six answers. So I would say a simple stress test you could do is, let’s say, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re presenting to a group about, you know, creativity or whatever the topic is, tell your story to yourself and say, can I transform that story into a procedure? So how would that relate to a procedure for this group or a key action or a theory or a concept, you know? And if you can’t transform your answer, you don’t understand it. I think too often, like we may tell a story about engagement, double down on what I said earlier, but if you can’t define what en engagement is, you know, do you really have command of what you’re talking about? So you just want to think through it in the different ways and make sure you have complete command no matter what the angle is, because someone can challenge you or ask a follow-up question. Great story, how am I gonna do this? You know, on the next project, if you can’t answer that question, then, then you know, you may have lost the opportunity to influence.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. Yeah, and I’m just thinking about that and you know, even thinking about the right story, like how do you think your audience will respond when they hear the story? Will they be excited? Could they potentially be offended even slowing down to think about if it wasn’t you, how might someone else respond if they heard you answer in that way? Because you can do all of this. But the other piece is really making sure is it appropriate, is it effective at driving the concept, the behavior, the procedures that we want to see? And if it’s not, maybe it’s actually the wrong story. Thank you for saying that because I, I love this. But then I know the example we shared in the pre-call. I was like, you can have all this. And I’m still surprised that people can use stories or metaphors that were actually really important or unimportant or not appropriate.

Even making a passive joke such as, oh, women can’t drive, would not be an effective metaphor to drive home the importance of inclusion. And this is part of the story that Brian and I were talking about. And, and this is also thinking through, you know, challenging our answers to really think about how our audience might feel if you’re using some of these, especially if you might other someone or make them feel less than.

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: Absolutely. Like that example, if I, if someone simply says off the cuff, women can’t drive, you immediately should connect it back to, you know, what concept is someone locating that response to? Oh, they’re gonna say that’s a lack of inclusion. Oh, that’s not very thoughtful. Oh, let me, lemme rephrase this. But if you need to sort of connect, you know, what’s the concept that it’s related to? You know, what, how these answers interrelated and you just want to be thoughtful. And I just saw something recently on LinkedIn where I, I commented where someone posted, I apologize, I’m not gonna air their dirty laundry, but they had a post about the, the grandfathers of management theory and I responded intentionally. Because it wasn’t inclusive, I was looking into the concept. I said, what about, you know, the grandmother’s management theory and I mentioned Mary Follet, who was really the first and founding thinker of negotiation theory.

You know, so, but the point was, you know, people are using this language and they’re not being intentional with their answers and it’s clumsy. It’s just about being really intentional and imagine if every single word you’ve said, everything about your answers were, were choreographed and spot on. And you, you start going down the layers. Like for example, you can tell a story, but can you version your story have a short, medium, or long version, right? There’s all these different ways you can have commanded your answers that really convey gravitas. But I digress.

Jenn DeWall: No, I just, I I love that because again, to take that example, if you’re, if the concept that you’re trying to convey is inclusion, starting with inclusion with a joke about how women or people can’t do things is not going to support the concept and you’re actually going to lose credibility and influence. But I also, so, and I just have to say that, because I, I was very shocked to, you know, experience that, but I also, you know, to pivot now thinking through that. Yes. So then could you hypothetically, or should you be able to, going back to your answer response of having a, you know, a short, a medium length and a long, could you also think about these six areas through that and put it into the, if I had two minutes to describe this, five minutes to describe this, an hour to describe this and think about what would be my highlights? Would that be kind of a recommendation piece, too, to think about how you can adjust your style?

Improve Your Communication By Adjusting Your Style to Your AudienceDr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah. How can you adjust your style? That takes practice, it takes command, but also being able to come back to, you know, different answers, you know, so like, can you talk about a metaphor and then five minutes later in the conversation deepen the metaphor by providing like another aspect of the metaphor. All this conveys gravitas and conveys con intentionality. It can convey a command. And that’s what great rhetorical speakers do. Martin Luther King, and Steve Jobs, you’ll see demonstrated different techniques that are consistent with AQ that I’m talking about. And that’s what creates command or influence.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, Brian, I feel like the world needs to develop its AQ. If I never have to sit through a meeting where I hear someone say something that is so grossly inappropriate, I’m like, I just wanna send them your thing to be like, think through what you’re saying because you know, whether it’s a first impression or whether it’s talking about a topic that is extremely sensitive, you could actually lose all of your credibility by not taking the time to do this. Brian, thank you for your work. Hopefully this will actually create a lot better, you know, communication, collaboration. I’ve loved our conversation. I love talking about how you can raise your AQ. Again, we’ve been running this podcast for four years and I’ve never heard anything like this and I just love it. But for those that are also loving this, how can they get in touch with you?

Where to Find More from Dr. Brian GlibkowskiDr. Brian Glibkowski: Yeah, thanks Jenn. And first of all, I appreciate being, being on your podcast. It’s been a pleasure. To learn more, you can go to my website, RaiseYourAQ.com, there’s a free Explore AQ test. You can take. Takes five minutes, you get a 10-page PDF report. So I encourage you to do that, or you could find me on LinkedIn. Brian Glibkowski.

Jenn DeWall: Brian, thank you so much. Thank you for hopefully helping us all be better communicators. One answer at a time. That was cheesy. Thank you so much, Brian. I

Dr. Brian Glibkowski: I Like it. That was good.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to today’s show with Dr. Brian Glibkowski. I loved that conversation. And for someone like myself that actually talks about confidence a lot with people, I truly think that by looking at this framework, you could actually develop your confidence in how you present ideas or how you can influence people to change. There are so many different applications of this tool, so I would definitely recommend checking it out. And if you want to take your own, you can take the free Explore AQ test. Each participant after taking that receives a 10-page PDF report, and you can access this test by going to RaiseYourAQ.com/explore.html. And if you enjoyed today’s episode, or if you know, maybe a new leader, someone prepping for a difficult conversation or a presentation, share this episode with them. And of course, if you enjoyed it, leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service. Thank you so much for listening. Good luck. I’m coming up with those answers. Until next time.

The post Improve Your Communication Skills by Raising Your AQ (Answer Intelligence) with Dr. Brian Glibkowski appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Learn to Develop Your Own Resilience RecipeHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we are talking all about resiliency, which is a perfect topic for this time of year when many of us who have set new goals or intentions or resolutions have a tendency to quit. I hope today’s conversation will motivate you to keep going. But before I get into the conversation with Lizette Warner, I just want to remind you about Crestcom’s monthly webinar. Every single month we offer a complimentary webinar that’s open and available to the public. And in February we’ll be talking all about how you can create resiliency and self-love in the workplace. That webinar is on Tuesday, February 14th, 8:00 AM Mountain and 10:00 AM Eastern. We would love to see you there and you can register by going to Crestcom.com’s Resources page. Now let’s get on with the show. Let me tell you a little bit more about today’s guest, Lizette Warner.

Full Transcript BelowJenn DeWall: Lizette is the senior director of MR Oncology Collaborations for Phillips. Lizette is an author, a speaker, and a leadership coach who turned her hand to writing after discovering a passion for helping struggling professionals through leadership crisis and renewal. Power, Poise and Presence is her debut non-fiction book and her mission. Want to know a little bit more personal things about Lizette? Lizette shows leaders how to embrace that perfect poise isn’t perfect. Let’s say that one more time. Perfect poise isn’t perfect. Lizette lives in Texas with her husband, a spastic Irish Wolfhound, a narcoleptic Mastweiler, goes tactical thrifting with her daughter and always hits the gym with her son. When he visits between semesters at Oklahoma University, you’ll find her swimming with her team or screeching in her church choir when she isn’t advising, coaching, speaking, or reading. Talk about someone that’s likely had to develop some resilience, coping or strategies just to manage everything that she has going on. Alright, so now it’s time to start that conversation! Enjoy as Lizette and I discuss how to develop your resilience recipe. Enjoy.

Meet Lizette Warner, PhDJenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I am so excited to be talking about the resilience recipe. I mean, let’s be honest, many people are probably quitting their New Year’s resolutions right now, may be uncertain about their goals. There’s no better time than start talking about what we can do to build our resilience recipe. And Lizette, I am just so glad that you were on the show today. Could you go ahead and introduce yourself to your or to our audience? I know that you’ve got a book that I would love for them to hear about, but tell us how you came to be.

Lizette Warner: Oh my goodness. What a question. Hello. Hello. It’s so glad and thank you for having me on on the show. So I am a healthcare executive and an executive coach. So both of those things sort of flow together. Grew up youngest of four in Chicago. We’re now like in in Dallas Fort Worth. And through that I, my whole discovery growing up, growing up sort of the, the Oopsy I was the Oopsy-baby growing up .

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. What a way to feel about your presence. I’m the Oopsy .

Lizette Warner: I’m the Oopsy. Right. And, and was made fun of because everyone was, oh my gosh, my, my siblings weren’t high school, graduating high school when I was born, so I got picked on. And somehow through that I, I ended up, because I only spoke Spanish when I was growing up and as they were picking on me, because I couldn’t pronounce the words right in Spanish, I ditched Spanish. I mean, I still speak Spanish, but I, I ditched Spanish and just started speaking English best English speaker in the family right here.

Jenn DeWall: I love it. I love it. It might be the oopsie, but I’ve got this

Poise, Presence and A Resilience RecipeLizette Warner: , right? So I dunno, maybe my resiliency started from then. And and went through school, was really, really bright and ended up going into technology and pursued my, my PhD and in all of that, like I kept running into getting just sort of flipped over, just, just sort of being, falling into sort of the Oopsy category again of like, who quits their job to go pursue their PhD with a husband and two little kids. Like who, it didn’t even occur to me that, oh, maybe I shouldn’t do that. So anyway, so I did that and, and so I ended up as in healthcare as an executive coach because I ended up coaching a number of people. And through all of that, those adventures, I bring my, my stories to the forefront, but I help my clients through things like resiliency, which is man, what a great topic for, for the day.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. Well, and I feel like even within your opening introduction, you of course talked about resiliency in the form of learning a new language of resiliency in being the youngest one in a large sibling set. And of course resiliency in going against the grain. What might be untraditional to quit your job to pursue a PhD? I mean, it feels like you’ve got a lot of strong examples of resiliency built in . Now, before we dive into the content, I would love to just talk about your book for a little bit. How are poise and presence? What was the inspiration in writing that?

Lizette Warner: It was probably the fifth woman who came to me with the same exact problem of, hey Lizette, I, I really wanna get into the director role, but a couple years ago I got myself set up, got the promotion, and then our company had a reorg and my boss went out the, the door. So in comes my new boss, and here I start all over again ready to, to get into my promotion. Worked really hard and guess what? The reorg happened again. And so now I’m in the position lizette that I’m doing the job of the director, but I don’t have the promotion and my company’s just had another reorg, what do I do? So I kept having these same problems and it didn’t matter the industry, it didn’t actually even matter where in the hierarchy she was in the organization that they were coming with the same exact problems.

And then I was finding, finding my male clients were having somewhat similar problems not, not to that extent, but similar problems in terms of, you know, showing up and being, being confident in certain situations where they just didn’t feel confident and not knowing what to do. What do I do with all these emotions and, and sort of trying to bluff their way through things. And because of all of that and all of the conversations I was having, I decided, you know what? I fix problems. How can I help the people who are having these problems, who I’m never gonna get to, to coach who I’m nev who are, they’re never gonna come to me. How can I help you at scale? And so I thought, let me take all of these stories and let me write them down in a book.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. And I love that. Oh my gosh, I love the reason that you drew to write your book to make it more accessible to more people. And at the heart of all of that, to be able to show up with confidence is our own resiliency. So your book is a perfect segue into how we can get that and what is our, or how can we create a resilience recipe, but maybe we should, again, level set and not that we don’t all know this, but let’s think about the operating definition. What is resilience at the most basic level?

What is Resilience?Lizette Warner: Wow, that is a wonderful question because resiliency is, is that ability in, in mechanical terms, it’s that ability to be able to bounce back, right? It, it’s being elastic, but then being able to bounce back from that. And so I think of that it’s funny, it’s sort of the mechanical term, but I kind of think of that a as resiliency, your ability to bounce back from the crap that life throws at you. The, the events that happen, the unfortunate things, the mishaps, the unexpected that pops up, and your ability to bounce back from that.

Jenn DeWall: It’s so interesting and I taught a webinar for Crestcom today on how to create a growth mindset. And one of the things that we talked about is the fact that when we’re setting goals, when we’re trying to create new habits, we almost create them in a vacuum as if a setback won’t occur, an obstacle won’t pop up. And I think all of us get a little bit, I don’t know if it’s more inspired to focus on the goal and then almost, oh, I don’t wanna think about the stuff that won’t go right because I know that I’ve got it all figured out. And I noticed that within a lot of achieving people and perfectionists we do that we kind of plan our goals in a vacuum and just assume still that everything is gonna be fine. Even though we know in our head that life is a series of ups and downs. I mean, I don’t Do you do that? I know I do it

Lizette Warner: . Oh heck yeah. I think that’s, that’s sort of human nature. because you think of, you think your goal, you think your, your outcome. Like, oh, I’m gonna run the marathon, right? I’m gonna run the marathon, it’s gonna be great. And then you get to like mile– I don’t run marathons, but I don’t even know, you get to– I’ve heard you get to like mile, I don’t know, 13 and it’s just, what did, who thought of this? Who said this was gonna be a great idea, right? And you’re on like mile 15 and I’m like, I’m ready to stop. But we, we, I think that is human nature. You sort of envision the best, right? And then when the worst happens, it can be, it can be a real setback and a real downer to, to quite a few people, right? And, and it’s not that people with resiliency don’t recognize the, the awful because awful happens, right? It’s not that that we don’t, we don’t look at it or we don’t appreciate it. It’s just we don’t let the awful get us down long enough to stop us. Right? So you get to mile 13, if you’re a marathon runner, right? You get to mile 13 and you know it’s gonna get better. I’ve already run 13, so I’ve only got 13 ish more to go like I’m at the midway point, I can do this, right? That, that’s how I think of it.

Jenn DeWall: I love that it’s the ability to look at, I might be at my mile 13 halfway through the marathon, but hey, instead of saying, oh my gosh, I have 13 more miles to go, I’ve actually already finished half of them. And maybe that then dovetails into that fixed versus the growth mindset. How we look at the problem in front of us is really going to frame up our actions, our behaviors and emotions around the setbacks when they occur. So I love this, you work with your clients, you’ve seen these setbacks many times before because hey, anytime we’re achieving or trying to achieve big things, there’re going to be bumps in the road. And so from your experience, what does resilience look like in action?

Lizette Warner: Oh my gosh. I, in in action it, it, it’s not glamorous or rosy in here. I’ll, I’ll give you an example. When, when we lived in, this was in Minnesota and it snowed. My husband took the kids grocery shopping because even forever, I have never liked grocery shopping, so he’s always done that. But he’d take the kids grocery shopping and they were five, six, some, somewhere around that age. And when he’d get home, you know, the invariably we gotta carry all the groceries into the house. So my son had these grocery, I don’t know what my husband was buying, but the bags apparently were pretty heavy. And so he, he yells at my husband, you know, while they’re tracking all the, the groceries from in the snow, like, help me. And my husband looked at him and gave him help, but not really the help that he was expecting.

Lizette Warner: So my husband told him grow stronger. And in that moment, that was a resiliency moment. In that moment my son could have chosen to like, I’m gonna drop the bags and I’m done. I’m gonna take one bag and leave the rest here. Or I’m gonna heave them up on my shoulders and I’m gonna keep my grocery delivery route. Right? And that was what resiliency was. He grabbed those bags and he continued his grocery delivery route, right? And he had the choice. He had the choice. And that I think exemplifies kind of what it looks like in action for you.

Where Do People Lack Resiliency?Jenn DeWall: Oh wait, I, I love that because it brings forward the power of intention that actually every single day we all have the opportunity to make a different choice. We all do. And so where do you see that lacking in leaders? Where do you see that they’re not leaning into resiliency and that they’re actually shrinking or giving up or maybe just hiding and running away from the situation? Yeah. What do you see resilience lacking?

Lizette Warner: I, I love that question because I think it goes back to what you said earlier where we, we sometimes set our goals in a vacuum. And I think leaders are no different than that. You set your goals and, and that’s what I see is they set their goals in the vacuum and then come like whatever may come, they’re gonna keep that and not move from it, not adapt to, to, let’s say the changing circumstances. The covid happened, right? Everyone had to pivot and there were some that did not pivot and didn’t pivot very well, and they’re no longer here as businesses. So I think that, that I see as sort of the biggest challenge in, in leadership is this resiliency, this, this adaptability to sort of the, the circumstances around you and how are you gonna now pivot using the resources, the strength of your team, and to raise them up while you’re doing that, to see this, this new challenge as an opportunity for your organization to then rise to meet that challenge.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. And again, adaptability, I think there’s no , there’s no such thing as constant, right? That quote, you know, the only thing constant, constant is change. And I think we’re even seeing the friction points, whether it’s in, I think there’s the friction between the two schools of thought of leadership, that traditional leadership of what they think the workforce looks like, and then the new future of work of what people want, whether it’s younger generations or just what people want out of work now in a post pandemic world. And then I think you see that friction in the leader of being like, well, it’s just unfair that that promotion didn’t happen. Why did they pick them? I worked hard. Instead of saying, okay, I got rejected. Now what? I mean it’s again just a different choice. It’s your reaction versus your response was that, why do you think it’s so important?

Why is Developing Resiliency Important?Jenn DeWall: I mean, I know that obviously at the base level, we’re not gonna get where we want to be if we don’t adapt. But why do people really need to start to take this seriously? Because I think even today on that webinar, I asked at the jump of it, Hey, on a scale of one to 10, how comfortable are you, you know, dealing with change? And of course everyone, you know, 10 being very comfortable, one being that, and many people were like 8, 9, 8, 9, 8, 9. And sometimes I think that we all have a more inflated sense of our own resiliency than what we actually have. So let’s, let’s get, like we can either talk about that or even just addressing why do we need to build our own resilience? Because right there, that example is we actually probably need to think a little bit more about how we’re showing up that maybe we need to start to take some responsibility for that. We’re actually not as resilient as what we think we are.

Lizette Warner: You know, it is a great question because there, there’s this in, in the communications field, there, there was a, a study that was done, you know, were, you asked people, you know, how, how good of a communicator are you? And resoundingly everyone was like, oh yeah, I communicate way better than my colleagues or anyone around me. And so what that convinced me of is, okay hello everyone, we all think we communicate poorly at best. It because we all think we could do it better than our neighbors. And so we can’t all be communicating a hundred percent or better than our neighbors, right? And I think it’s sort of the same as you point out with resiliency. We all sort of think, oh, we do it really well. But then when you’re handed, when life hands you sort of COVID and everyone’s like, oh my gosh, I’ve gained, you know, however many pounds or extra clothes sizes that you you gained during covid, we, we don’t necessarily handle it very well.

And I think therein lies the challenge for us to accept of if we’re able to handle and adapt with resiliency, it only benefits us in our mental health in the bottom line of the company as well. Because let’s face it, if you can adapt to the situation, if you can be resilient in that sort of sense, then you’re able to make it past those tough times. And in that you’re growing new skills to be able to handle your next challenge, right? Because things aren’t static and something else is going to happen. I mean, that is the certainty. We don’t know necessarily what it is when it will happen, but you can be guaranteed it’s gonna happen.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. Yep. Yeah. Life is gonna happen. Things are not going to go as planned. If I could predict certainty, I would definitely go get a lottery ticket and I would presumably know the winning numbers. We don’t have that predictability. But, you know, in reality, I’m curious what your take on this is because I think some of the reasons that we don’t step up and take our responsibility as it relates to our own resiliency is the fear of owning it. Because owning it can feel like shame, oh, I did gain all that extra weight over the pandemic, which I did. So if that’s you don’t worry, you’re in solidarity with me. But, you know, understanding that, I guess my logic is always, if I can’t own my missteps, my mistakes, my deficits, the ways that I got it wrong, or my opportunities to do something different, if I can’t own one that is, I don’t, I can’t control it. And that’s different than pretend that’s, you know, that’s the important piece because a lot of us will pretend it doesn’t exist and then you can’t find any solutions. And I’m curious where you or what you notice from your perspective about the rule or correlation between shame and resiliency and if you have any thoughts on how people pull back in or what they could maybe do in that moment.

What Lead You to Developing Your Resilience Recipe?Lizette Warner: Oh my gosh, I absolutely do have thoughts around this because the, the whole process of of gaining, you know, weight, let’s say in, in, in whatever challenge that you have, like at, at COVID where everyone gained, gained weight, that is telling you something, right? And, and I think that’s the, that’s the key part of it is that you learn something from that. So I’ll give you an example of myself. I noticed, I I I tended to work be from home before COVID, but so it, it wasn’t that much of an impact for me in, in terms of, okay, this is a huge shift because I was already sort of used to working from home. But here’s what I noticed in myself. When I, when I doubt myself when I’m not very confident and I don’t know where to go with things, I discovered that I would end up at the refrigerator door, open the refrigerator door, or I’d go to the, the pantry open and look at the food and invariably I’d eat something.

And I tracked this. And I tracked it for quite a while and I, I got to the point where I understood why I was going to the refrigerator or why I was looking for food because I, at the time when I was tracking it, I realized I’m not hungry. Okay, what else? What’s going on? If I’m not hungry, why am I here? Because I’d find myself like standing there, I’m like, oh yeah, that looks nice. I’m not hungry. And then I’d eat something. And I, as I tracked it and I started to understand what was going on, I realized in the moment when I’m opening the refrigerator door, it’s because I’m doubting and I don’t know what to do. So I figured out that my trigger, one of my one of my things that I look for is I’m going to the refrigerator door.

I’m putting something in my mouth when I’m not hungry and it’s because I don’t know what to do. And so then I asked myself, okay, Lizette, if you don’t know what to do, what do you know? And then I’m like, oh, I can answer that question. And so I’d start writing it down, okay, now that you know that, what, what’s the next step? And then I’d start writing that down. And then before you knew it, I had snowballed into, I got out of, I wasn’t anywhere near the refrigerator, I was working, I was doing my greatest work. And now when that happens to me, because I’ve been through this whole exercise, when that happens to me, I get really excited because I know something great’s about to happen. This is my great zone. And now I don’t go to the refrigerator, I go to my desk and I start asking myself those questions. But I had to go through the process. And so to answer your question, I think there’s so much information there. I think as you said, it’s a huge opportunity. And a lot of times we miss it because we’re like, oh, I gotta go buy new clothes because now these don’t fit me. Instead of seeing it as a, whoa, this is a huge learning ground for me.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that so much. And the other piece that I really love about what you just shared is that not only right self-awareness, I think that’s still one of the hardest things for people to build because ignorance is bliss land and there’s a lot of stuff that we wanna pretend we don’t have. But you really demonstrated a strong example of your self-awareness, but then doing the next piece of your emotional literacy, what am I feeling right now? I’m feeling doubt, I’m feeling triggered, I’m feeling discouraged, I’m feeling blank. And I think a lot of people don’t check in. What is the emotion that I’m having right now? And I love that reframe that you had of, okay, I’m aware of this when I am triggered and I feel doubt come in. That’s when I, that’s kind of your cue where then you go to that behavior. But recognizing now I can reframe that when I have that cue now it’s the opportunity to start writing, to start to find that next discovery. What a beautiful example of resiliency in action.

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Recognizing Biomarkers to Develop ResilienceJenn DeWall: I am so excited to get into your resilience recipe and to talk about biomarkers, which is a concept I’ve never heard of. And so I’m so excited to just to hear about that. So here we are, audience, we are ready. We’re gonna be talking about now, now that we know what resilience is, where we, where and why we need to develop it, we’re gonna dive into how you can create your own resilience recipe. And it starts with biomarkers. Am I understanding that right? Okay. That’s

Lizette Warner: Right.

Jenn DeWall: What is a biomarker for those that might be like me? This is new, this is a new way of looking at it. What is a biomarker?

Lizette Warner: So we’ve been talking about biomarkers as as we’ve been going along. So it’s, it’s gonna be really simple now for you to understand it, but biomarkers are biological, right? So bio and they mark something, they tell something. So for example your temperature, when you take your temperature with a thermometer, you’re marking your biological function like, am I healthy? Am I not healthy? By taking by that temperature. So that temperature itself is a biomarker of health or disease. There are tons of biomarkers. So your blood pressure, that’s a biomarker. When you go take images at at the healthcare provider, like you go take your MR imaging or x-ray, all of those are, those are biomarkers and they’re telling something, right? There’s telling if the bones broken or not. But biomarkers, as I was telling you right now, in my whole resilience of going to the refrigerator, that’s a biomarker.

That was my biomarker of, ooh, I’m in doubt. I’m noticing something’s happening. So for me, that was a biomarker of, okay, I don’t know what to do. And there were tons of other associated biomarkers around, I don’t know what to do. My stomach gets in knots my shoulders get tight. I I tend to get tense and maybe I’ll, I’ll start talking a lot and I just don’t, I don’t feel comfortable. So all of those things go in around my biomarker, my recipe for my doubt. When I doubt myself, I may, for lack of a better word, like word salad all over the place and just words and words and words instead of being intentional about what I say. And so once I started to unpack, okay, that’s what my, that’s what my doubt looks like. I’m at the refrigerator, I’m maybe talking a lot and I don’t really know what I’m saying, my shoulders are tight.

How Biomarkers Can Help You Develop a Resilience RecipeLizette Warner: But then I started looking at, okay, what, what’s on the other side of that? When I have been resilient, what does that look like for me? And if you wanna form your resilience recipe, what I’ll invite you to do is to look back at a time at something you got through or your someone in your, in your vicinity got through. And by vicinity I mean like your, your family, your friends, something that you witnessed that somebody did, and you’re like, wow, that, that was awesome, that they were able to make it past a certain hurdle. And for me, when I was studying for my PhD at the Mayo Clinic, so we moved across country to go to the clinic for me to study. I quit my job with two little kids. My husband worked and I went to school halfway through my degree, my husband lost his job, and there we were no income.

I quit my job and I don’t have a degree. And in that moment I met doubt and sadness and I was doubting, why did you even leave work? Right? I’m looking at myself. And, and the worst of the worst in me came out. And in that same moment, I remembered my parents. And remember I told you I was an oopsie baby. I remembered my parents who my mother graduated third grade and somehow they had the four of us kids, they put us through school and they managed when my dad had gotten injured. So my dad was our main earner in the home when he got injured because of a fire actually that I talk about in the book. He couldn’t work. And somehow we made it through. And that memory of my parents making it through and traveling the globe, putting us all through school, let me know in that moment that my husband lost his job, that we could do it. I didn’t know how, I didn’t have the answers, but I knew we could. I just knew we could. And that is how your, you can form your resiliency recipe is thinking back to those things that you’ve, you’ve accomplished, you’ve gotten through. Sometimes I’ll even have people go as an exercise, look back two or three years ago, what have you overcome in that time? And that can even be sort of the anchoring into your recipe for resiliency.

Things You Overcome Will Develop Your Resilience RecipeJenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that. So does it start with thinking about, you know, checking in with your biomarkers and understanding what’s the information or the emotions or the mindset that you have towards a particular challenge or setback that you’re facing? And then next part is understanding where can I draw that inspiration from my understanding that first, so biomarker is that check-in and that self-awareness piece. And now once we built that, then it’s thinking about where do I want to go and who can I draw inspiration from? Am I getting that right?

Lizette Warner: Yeah, definitely. It’s, it, it’s t tuning into sort of your thoughts, your feelings around the successes that you have overcome and what can you draw upon from within yourself in your history or in the vicinity around you that you’ve experienced that, you know, and then leaning into those kind of like, as a recipe. So, so for me, my recipe in, in, just to give you an example with when my husband lost his job, was to remember that that situation that happened in our family, like they did it, they made it, and they, they didn’t have an education. Look, I have an education, we’ve got resources. I maybe it makes me uncomfortable to ask for help, but you know what, there’s so many people around me that I can ask for help right now. And it was building those things, kind of like my, my recipe of what, who do I go to?

Who do I go to next? And bringing those around me as if I was gonna create a new, a new dish. And I was kind of creating a new dish. I was, I was creating my, my new future with this resiliency recipe of people to go to memories that I had and then what I knew about myself and what I knew that I could overcome. And all of that came to the table and it, it’s almost like surrounding myself with a team, but they weren’t really there. It wa it was, it was characters that I knew who were supporting me. And it’s weird, it’s sort of weird to think about it, but it, it was like thinking of my parents back years ago who, you know, they’re older now or they were at the time when I was there, but thinking of them as my inspiration moving forward, thinking of my kids and what, what they were gonna learn through us, going through this tough time that we were going through. And all of those things came to my aid. And I think they can come to your aid too, if you think about those in terms of what can you bring around you to create your, your own re resiliency recipe.

Jenn DeWall: And so that’s not even, or it sounds like it’s going to be incredibly personal that it’s, or is it safe to say that like your resilience recipe is unique to who you are as an individual, what experiences that you’ve had and what challenges you’ve been through and what ones you’re going through or you think you might go through. Yeah, so it’s incredibly personal.

Lizette Warner: Very much so. Yeah.

How a Resilience Recipe Helps You Recover From SetbacksJenn DeWall: And then it starts, so starting with that self-awareness, then going around and looking for that inspiration. What do we do then to take, because it almost feels really meta. Okay, I can draw the inspiration, I can do all of those things. I wrote about, yes, I know that that person’s really good. Then what can I do? Let’s say I’m a skeptical person and I’m like, okay, but I’m still not them, so I can’t do that. What would be your advice or what would be your recommendations for next steps if someone is facing that setback or challenge?

Lizette Warner: Yeah, so if someone’s facing that setback or a challenge, my, my call to action to you would be to look back two, three years ago and say, okay, two, three years ago I was X years old. I was celebrating X what was it? Like, name it, write it down, remember it. Like really anchor yourself. Where were you two or three years ago? And think back, what were some of the challenges that you’ve overcome? What’s happened in that timeframe? Hello Covid. What, what were you doing? How did you manage through that? And maybe some of that’s good, maybe it’s bad, but what is for sure is that you’re someplace totally different now than you were back then. And for many people when they go through this exercise, they’re like, wow, I totally forgot that we went through a death in the family and I was able to bring the whole family together.

We, I helped somebody get a job. I talked to, you know, certain, I talked to college kids, I help mentor this kid. And I say kid, but you know, I help mentor this young adult into a growing, a growing member of society. What are the things that you’ve done? And honestly, it really astounds people because one of the things that we don’t do, same things, to go back to what you had said earlier sometimes we think in a vacuum, not just for the future, but we don’t even take a moment to look in our rear view mirror to see where we’ve been and what we’ve done. And when we do that, we realize we’re we’re pretty awesome people.

Recognize Your Own MagicJenn DeWall: Yes. Oh my gosh, I love that you said that. I, when I used to do more career coaching, I would talk about that even in the moment of how we’re talking about our worth, our values, our strengths, our experiences. And when we don’t take that time to actually look at where we’ve been and we think that, well, I was just blank title or I was blank title and we don’t look back. It’s like showing up to the interview with half of your resume in your head, , like they’re not going to see it because you can’t see it. But I love that you hit that because, and, and I know that we see it from different sides, but too often we’re going way too fast. We are going way too fast. And you know what, the first person that we’re gonna throw out the car is ourselves. That’s fine. I’m gonna take care of you. You get in here. I don’t need to see what I did. It’s fine. I’m not magic. I just did this. You are magic. You actually are magic.

Lizette Warner: Totally. You are Amazing. And we have, each of us have done such amazing things in our lives and we discount it, we forget it. We, we do exactly what you just said. No, no, no. You, you and you and you and you and oh, no, no, no. I didn’t do anything phenomenal. You know, I didn’t, I didn’t cure cancer and maybe you didn’t. Well, you did some other amazing things like we’re not all meant to be on this earth to cure cancer. We’re here to do something phenomenal. And that is your role to figure out what is the phenomenal that you do. And if you’re a stay-at-home mom, you do something phenomenal. If you are a leader of an organization, you do something phenomenal. If you’re a project manager, you do something phenomenal.

Recognize Small WinsJenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that so much. And I feel like it really goes into the importance of why we need to celebrate small wins. They don’t have to be the grandiose cancer curing esearch. It could be, you know what? I stopped and read it. I was able to take the time to read my child a bedtime story and that will help with their development. Or I was able to stop and help my neighbor with something that they were struggling with. We can still tick stock in those things as points of celebration. Don’t, don’t diminish or discredit yourself in your worth by thinking that you’re not adding value every single day that you’re, maybe it’s not every day, right? Maybe we’re isolating, but you, you do matter. You have value and you need to at least stop and look at the small ones. Otherwise, yeah, it’s easy to look back in your life and be like, haven’t done anything cool, .

Lizette Warner: I know. I think that, I think of that all the time. Like even even when I go to sleep and I sort of wake up the next morning, I, I’ve got all these wear, everybody has wearables, right? And I’m, I’m checking out my, my sleep score, like my sleep statistics or whatever, and I’m like, Ooh, I slept, slept an extra 10 minutes. Yay. Go me. Like that’s an accomplishment, right? I, I ate a balance. I cooked a balanced meal for myself today. That believe me, that is a huge accomplishment and amazing

Jenn DeWall: For me. Yeah, . No, I love that. And it is, anytime that we do these things, they are big moments. And I guess maybe that begs the question of maybe a reason that we struggle with resiliency starts with the own expectations that we have on ourselves. Do you expect yourself to be, and actually, here’s one that I love, like even as it comes down to people pleasing, like, do you actually think that you can do all of the things right to make everyone love you? Because you can’t. And one of my favorite questions to ask people is tell me one person in the entire world that every single person loves ,

Lizette Warner: Good luck.

Jenn DeWall: You can’t right? The natural answer that always comes in those moments. Oh, oh, it’s naturally Mother Teresa. Well, believe it or not, there are actually people that do not love her. Yeah. And it, so if you look at that at a high level, there’s actually no one that’s achieved being loved all the time. . And the one thing that you can control is loving yourself. And the other thing that made that, that made me think of too is understanding that our best every single day is going to look different. Like my, and I think about this because on Monday, I, I, you know, was speaking and teaching a class, and I can tell you it was not my best work. I felt like my brain wasn’t operating well. I felt like my thoughts couldn’t come together. And as a perfectionist, I was really actually frustrated. You know, insert the opening for all of the genuinely are awful at this. Why do you think you keep trying? Until I decided to lean into the fact that every single day my best is going to look different, it will just look differently. I can’t be perfect every day. That’s actually an unrealistic expectation. And I don’t even necessarily think I did bad on Monday, but I just didn’t do. And that perfect expectation that I had for myself. I mean, any thoughts on that?

Be a Better Friend To YourselfLizette Warner: Yeah, I, I think if we, if we spoke to, or if our best friends spoke to us the way that we speak to ourselves, we would no longer be friends with them, right? . We would, we would, who would, we wouldn’t let those people in our lives, right? You don’t let people in your lives that tell you, Jenn, you’re ugly, Jenn, you just don’t know what you’re doing. You just, you’re what gives you the right to, to host a podcast, to talk about leadership, to coach anyone, right? You would, you would distance yourself from that person as quickly as possible. But sometimes we let ourselves tell us those horrible stories. And then worst of all, we believe those horrible stories.

Jenn DeWall: Yes we do. Oh my gosh. Now I actually love talking about this because I think this is again, that point where we don’t want to own that we might fall into that category. And I, I’ve asked that question in events before too. Like, who here struggles with self-doubt or who, who actually, who here actually never struggles with it? And then it doesn’t always happen, but there’s always one or two people that are like, I don’t struggle with it. And in my head I’m like, give me five minutes, give me five minutes with you one-on-one because you’re human, which means that you’ve had to overcome some adversity in your life, which means that you likely have some bad programming in there and it doesn’t make you a bad person. Like stop, stop pretending that you have to prove that. Oh my, well I just, I got everything figured out. I don’t know, but I don’t know what you’re struggling was that like, look at me over here.

Lizette Warner: Yeah, I got it all. Yeah. , totally agree with you. because those are the ones who, who Yeah, you’re totally right. Let, let, let’s have five, let’s sit for five minutes. because I’m not quite sure I believe that

Jenn DeWall: Yes, it’s, and, but it’s, I t ink we need to remember that and we need to keep talking about it because resiliency, you know, what deprives you of your ability to live re to be resilient, it’s your own shame. Mm-Hmm. It’s your own shame about it. And you don’t deserve to shame yourself. You are perfectly perfect as you are. Oh my gosh, Lizette, I have really enjoyed our conversation. Any final thoughts before I kind of ask you how the audience can get in touch with you that any final thoughts as it relates to resiliency or your book and any tips that they can get from that?

Develop Your Resilience Recipe to Control Your OutcomesLizette Warner: Wow. In, in the last few seconds? I think, I think what I, I’d love for your, for everyone to know is that you are in control of your outcome. Now, you may not be in control of exactly how it plays out, but you’re in control of how you can handle it and address it and how you’ll come out of it on the other side. That’s, it’s all in your control. So if, if that’s the only thing they take away from today, take that. And I talk about more, more of that in, in the book. But if that’s the only thing you take away today, it’s been a, it’s been a home run for you.

Where to Find More from Lizette Warner, PhDJenn DeWall: I love that. Develop your own resilience recipe. Pay attention to the areas where you’re not showing up. Draw inspiration from those that are, are resilient. Challenge your expectations, we talked about so much. And then of course, know that you get to put yourself in that driver’s seat. Lizette, thank you so much for coming on The Leadership Habit podcast. Where can our audience get in touch with you?

Lizette Warner: So I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Instagram, Lizette Warner, and you can also find me on my website, lizettewarner.com. Super easy, one Z two Ts

Jenn DeWall: . Where do they get the book?

Lizette Warner: In the book? So the book, it’s on my website so you can find it from the website. It’s on Amazon, it’s on Cobo. Anywhere you get anywhere you can buy books. You can buy my book.

Jenn DeWall: Perfect. Lizzette, thank you so much for coming in on such a timely reminder of stepping into the power of our own resilience. Thank you for giving us the gift of your time and expertise. I really enjoyed our conversation and I know that our leaders or our listeners will too.

Lizette Warner: Thank you so much for having me. It was a blast.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of a Leadership Habit podcast. I hope that you enjoyed today’s conversation and if you did or if you know someone that did share this with them, it’s available on all podcast streaming platforms. So please spread the love. The world needs more resilient leaders and if you want to get more in touch with Lizette, do yourself a favor and invest in one thing certain to quadruple your investment. You. You can go to lizette’s website LizetteWarner.com and you can buy her book Power, Poise and Presence: A New Approach to Authentic Leadership. And in closing, if you are a leader and you are looking to develop your team, know that we have you here at kras com. That is actually our specialty. And if you are interested in a leadership development program that is designed to give you the right tools to lead for the future of work, head on over to Crestcom.com to learn more and even request a two hour complimentary skills workshop. We would love to come into your organization, in person or virtually to help develop your leaders. Until next time, everyone.

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Learn to Lead Confidently with Positive Self-TalkHi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we’re doing a minisode. I am going to be talking about how you can lead confidently with positive communication. And let’s be honest. It actually starts with how we talk to ourselves. But before we get into the show, I want to remind you that every single month Crestcom offers a complimentary webinar that is open to the public, all on relevant topics that we know can help you now be the best that you can be. And our topic on Thursday, January 26th at 10:00 AM Eastern is New Year, New Mindset: Develop a Growth Mindset for a Successful 2023. You can register for this webinar by going to crestcom.com and finding it available on our resources tab. And there, you can also find a complimentary e-book on leadership. Now, I hope that I can see you there.

I love that topic. I think it’s a really important way to look at our coming year and how we can build our success. And it connects with what we’re going to be talking about now, how to lead confidently with positive self-talk. This topic is incredibly important. As many of us are starting to have more conversations about mental health at work, we have to understand what is going on in our brains. And to do that, I want to just share some stats with you right now.

And one powerful stat, or at least powerful to me, is from the National Science Foundation, and they found that an average person has about 12,000 to 60,000 thoughts per day. And of those, 80% are negative, meaning that we might assume the worst is going to happen because we want to protect ourselves and be prepared when it is, or we used our past experiences, failures, and missteps, and we think that it’s going to hold true today.

How Can We Lead Confidently When 80% of Thoughts are Negative?So 80% of our thoughts are negative due to what they would call a negativity bias. And I’ll jump into that in a second. But here’s the other piece I want you to remember. 80% of them are negative, but 95% of them are repetitive thoughts. Meaning yesterday, if I woke up and I told myself that I was not a great leader, I could not be successful. Chances are you’re going to feel the exact same thing today. But here’s what I want to remind you. You always get to choose your thoughts. But let’s go back to that stat that I shared— that 80% of our thoughts are negative. One of the reasons for this is that we have a negativity bias. As humans, we tend to remember traumatic experiences better than positive ones. That is something that I feel we do as perfectionists.

I did that, but I didn’t do it perfectly, so I’m going to judge myself based on those mistakes. Negativity bias also might sound like recalling insults better than praise or reacting more strongly to negative stimuli. We might be a bit more defensive or think about negative things more frequently than positive ones. This is where anxiety can live. And again, another way that we might demonstrate this is by responding more strongly to negative events than equally positive ones. And I would go back to that perfectionist example. We sometimes discard the positive feedback we get, especially if we think we didn’t do it perfectly. But let me give you that definition of negativity bias. The bias towards negativity leads you to pay much more attention to bad things that happen to make them much more important than they are.

How Negativity Bias Impacts Your Ability to Lead ConfidentlyAnd I want you to reflect on what impact you think a negativity bias might have on your work, how you lead a team or how you show up at work in your head. Of those 12,000 to 60,000 thoughts per day, it might sound like it’s too late for me, so why try? But what will they think of me? Or I’m so stupid? I can’t do it. I’m so embarrassed. Why did they get picked over me? Is something wrong with me? Now, I say this to you because these are common examples of how many of us speak to ourselves, but I want to encourage you to change the way that you talk to yourself. And the only way we can communicate positively is if we start talking to ourselves in a more positive and compassionate manner.

Watch Out For GAILsBut let me quickly jump in and tell you four main energy drains or the things that might be barriers on top of that negativity bias to how we have a positive mindset or talk to ourselves. These are positivity barriers, and they are known as the acronym GAILs, that’s G A I L. So let’s talk about these energy blocks. They’re the things that get in our way that disrupt our ability to think positively about a situation.

GremlinsThe G in GAIL is the gremlin, and this is the inner critic that we all have that’s telling us some version of you are not good enough, which creates a sense of inadequacy. Of course, it lowers our confidence, increases our stress and anxiety, and decreases our ability to have influence. And here’s the point, if you are thinking to yourself, oh my gosh, I have a very strong inner critic, know that it’s totally common that every single one of us actually has it. So that’s the G of the energy drainers, GAILs, that’s the G and GAIL.

AssumptionsNow the A are assumptions. It’s believing that since it happened before, it will happen again. And it might sound like because that customer didn’t want to invest in my services, no one will want to invest in them. I applied for that job and didn’t get it, so I’ll never get a job. Or because I got passed over for that promotion once. It’s going to happen again. The challenge with assumptions is that the data may or may not be true. It’s not likely true that because you didn’t get one job, you’re not going to get another. This is where our resilience needs to live in challenging these assumptions and not using them to dictate our decisions of the presence. Because as leaders, you might notice this in the form of that employee or that individual who did that once they’re going to do it again, so I don’t trust them.

Or we can use other assumptions to avoid risk or keep ourselves safe. We make assumptions to make decisions. So of our en energy drainers, we talked about the first two of Gail, the gremlins and the assumptions.

InterpretationsNow we get to talk about the I in GAIL, which is interpretations. Now, interpretations are creating an opinion on an event, a situation or an experience that you believe is the only explanation. Now let’s describe what this might look like. Let’s say that we go into a social event and you see a friend there, and you’re waving so excited to see them, but you notice they don’t respond. They give you no wave and don’t even acknowledge your presence. So you start thinking to yourself, what did I do wrong? I must have made them angry. Where did my actions create that type of response? We begin to interpret it without actually knowing the truth.

And we think that that’s the only explanation. Whereas if I expand my viewpoint and go back to that example, maybe my friend didn’t wave back because they didn’t see me. What if it’s not always the first story that comes to mind? How we interpret our life comes down to the difference between our truth and the truth. And if you can’t go ahead and you’re looking at a situation, and there’s a lot of uncertainty, remember that you get to choose how you perceive it, decide how to interpret it, and most of us will interpret it as the worst likely outcome. But I want you to challenge your brain to think about what else I could be missing. Maybe they just didn’t see me. So interpretations— this is what leaders and individuals do all day long. We’re trying to assess our surroundings.

Are we on the same page? Did I miss something? And again, I just want you to remember that interpretations happen, and it’s our kind of first impression of an observation. But remember that sometimes it’s wrong.

Limiting BeliefsNow, let’s talk about the L. So- gremlins, assumptions, interpretations, and now let’s go into limiting beliefs, which is the final piece of our energy drainers. Now, limiting beliefs are opinions or beliefs about the world that limit us in some way. For example, I am too old to change careers or because I’m a woman, I can’t do that. Or because I’m a man, I can’t do that. Think about it as a general rule that limits us or constrains us in some way. Hey, if I tell myself, I’m too old, hey, because I’m so old I can’t possibly change careers, well then I won’t have the confidence to actually do it because I’m listening to that rule and making it a reality when in fact you get to call the shots and create the rules for your own life.

But here’s the piece that I want you to be a little curious about because many of these limiting beliefs are actually things we learned over time. They might be messages we hear from parents or reinforced by teachers, coaches, or bosses. And we have to watch for this, especially in how we make decisions and delegate and trust people—and even understand the rule that limiting beliefs can plan innovation. Hey, we tried that once before, and it didn’t work, so I know the same thing will happen. Or because we’re too small, we can’t do something that big.

So I want you to challenge that. And if you’re trying to coach around one of these four areas, the GAILs, I want you to be mindful of challenging the self-doubt. Name it. Understand what that message is. You might be saying; I am not good enough. I am not smart enough. I do not have the experience. Challenge it and know that it’s natural to have those thoughts, but you don’t want to hold on to them, that you reinforce them and repeat them every day, that you believe that they’re the truth. And in terms of assumptions, you can challenge that by saying, well, just because it happened once before, who says it must happen again? Just because someone didn’t hire me does not mean no one will hire me. And if you want to challenge interpretations, you might ask, did your coworker really try to make you mad? Or was your coworker actually trying to explain something or represent a point of view that might be missing? A lot of of times we might assume that someone’s out to get us when, as a matter of fact, it might just be that they have a different approach to how we’re looking at the problem.

And if you want to challenge limiting beliefs, the place that I would start with is because I’m a man, I can’t express emotions or because I’m a woman, I can’t do this. I want you to challenge it. What proof do you have that it’s true? If you think in terms of the example around careers, ah, you know, I’m too old to be able to change. If we look and just put in a Google search, we’ll see that many people created success later in life after changing their calling. So ask yourself, what proof do you have that this is true? Whether having a conversation looking online, look for ways to disarm and undermine that rule to show yourself that it’s a limiting belief and not necessarily the truth. Now, as a closing reflection question, as we talk about Gail’s, what I want you to think about is what GAIL or energy drainer holds you back from being positive.

Challenge Your Thoughts to Lead ConfidentlyNow, as a closing reflection question, as we talk about Gail’s, I want you to think about what GAIL or energy drainer holds you back from being positive. Is it that gremlin or inner critic? Is it an assumption that because it happened once, it’s going to happen again? Is it how we interpret that world? Perception is the reality for us, but we can always challenge that perception. And then, of course, limiting beliefs. Now, why do we need to care about this? The benefits of positive self-talk are many. It improves our health, specifically our immune system. It can reduce pain, and it can improve our cardiovascular health and our mental health. We, of course, can have positive self-esteem, an increase in confidence, and greater life satisfaction. We can also reduce stress by controlling our thoughts. And of course, and this is what research says, we can have an increased lifespan so we can live longer if we change how we talk to ourselves. And here’s the other piece that I want to drive home. It’s a public service announcement that I want all of you to hear.

Thoughts are not FactsIf you don’t remember the energy drainers, I want you to remember this specific thought, or I should say a statement. Thoughts are not facts; thoughts are not facts. Going back to how we opened up this mini-sode many times, we don’t realize that we’re having the same thought over and over again, that we actually think it’s true and know that that’s only because of the impact of negativity bias or the repetition of saying that thought over and over and over. So challenge your thoughts. If you’re telling yourself as you’re approaching a new project, I am not good enough. I do not have the skills for this at all yet. At the end of it, expand your possibilities. Open up your brain to see that you know what I. I can figure this out. I can do this. I can learn a new skill, but I want you to be mindful.

And also, this is where it’s really, really important to be compassionate with yourself as it relates to self-talk. We have to pay attention to why we think the way that we think. And many of us have picked up thoughts or behaviors and these truths as a form of our own survival to help us be the best in the environments and the situations that they are. Why do we think the way that we think could be our childhood messages that we heard from our parents? It could be past mistakes, and we want to make sure we never do it again. Of course, it’s just past experience in general. And maybe it’s our pain. We’re trying to keep ourselves safe. Maybe it’s that we received criticism and feedback in the past, and we just assumed that, well, I guess maybe my style isn’t for everyone. I heard that one piece of bad feedback. Now I’m going to use that to say I’m not good enough.

It could also be our own confirmation bias. We say over and over again that we believe that it’s true and there’s no possible way to look at it. And it’s also thinking about why we think that way. That we think you pay attention to what you’re consuming on your computer. Are you picking up social media and then starting to judge yourself? Well, I’m not as successful as them. Look at what they’re doing. Gosh, everyone else must be living a better life than I am. Comparison is the thief of joy. And understand that it’s natural to compare as a benchmark, and that can be really effective until it’s not until it costs you your mental health until it costs you your confidence.

Know What Triggers Your Negative Self-TalkAnd, of course, why do we think the way that we think we have triggers? We all have triggers— things that can prompt a particular thought pattern. And my trigger might be when I get a rejection, then I tend to go down a shame spiral of, Jenn, you’re so stupid. Why would you even think that you could do this? Everyone else can do it so much more than you. But there are also deeper-level triggers. Ones that might sound like I feel judged. I feel blamed. I feel disrespected. I feel unimportant. I feel unwelcomed. When we’re triggered, it makes managing our thoughts much more challenging because we likely have a default stress response, either fight, flight, freeze, or fun, attached to the action resulting from that trigger. So again, if we’re talking about trying to change our thoughts to improve our positive communication, it also starts with the foundation of emotional intelligence, of understanding that the benefit comes from responding, not from reacting. Now, if you don’t, if the benefits weren’t enough to talk about why we want to change the way that we talk, let’s talk about the costs of negative self-talk, burnout, anxiety and depression, and healthy relationships.

Hey, think about that. If I’m not feeling good enough about myself, I might not have as much trust. I might be more jealous. I might be more worried and insecure. Cost of negative self-talk mistakes. If I’m constantly telling myself, I’m going to goof up. Well, it’s kind of a self-fulfilling pro, a proud book, excuse me, prophecy, you will eventually goof up or withdrawal. When we start to tell ourselves, I’m not good enough, my opinions don’t matter who I am, doesn’t matter, we pull away. And that actually goes against what we as humans are designed to do, which is social beings designed for connection, but the cost of negative self-talk can also be substance abuse, perfectionism.

How to Improve Your ThoughtsAnd so, to wrap up today, I’m gonna talk about a framework to improve your thinking. And it starts with number one, listening. Two, highlighting. Three, halting. Four, replacing. And five, focusing.

1. ListeningAnd listening is the foundation, again, of our emotional intelligence. What are the things that we’re saying to ourselves? This is the opportunity to keep a judgment journal. What are the situations where you feel triggered? Maybe it’s around particular people, especially those that have a higher power position. I want you to be aware of the situations where you might go within. You might start to withdraw. And once you’re aware, that’s the listening piece. So do a judgment journal and write down every single time that you start to shrink lower and lower or that you notice those GAILs popping in the gremlin, the assumption, the interpretations, the limiting beliefs. Start to track that.

2. HighlightingNow, step number two, to be able to improve your thinking, is highlighting this is where we do the hard work that many people don’t do because we assume it’s true because we thought it. But remember, thoughts are not facts. I want you to fact-check the thought. Was this true all the time? Is there any reason to believe that you could actually have a different reaction? Another way to do this could also be asking, well, you know, how true is this? What evidence do I really have? Because highlighting this challenging piece is also a way for us to disable the impacts of things like imposter syndrome. You know, despite evidence of success, feeling like a fraud. This is where we need to fact-check the thought. Hey, if you’re feeling like a fraud, oh my gosh, they’re going to find out that they hired the wrong person for this job. Well, let’s fact-check that. How true is it that they hired the wrong person for the job? What are your skills? What are your success stories of the past? Your accomplishments? You’ll likely find that you are actually the right person for the job.

3. HaltingNow, step number three to improve your thinking is to practice stopping the thought. And one of my all-time favorite tools. And if you do anything again from this, maybe just start by stopping the negative thoughts. And there’s one word that I love to use, and that’s “Deflect”. So when I start to say, Jenn, you’re never gonna be successful. Everyone else is gonna be more successful than you. You do not matter. You are not smart. Who do you think you are? I say to myself: deflect, deflect! I am not going down that rabbit hole. My thoughts are not facts. I just have to disrupt that repetitive thinking that came with me from yesterday that I programmed in over the last 40 years of my life. Deflect, not go in there. And that word also helps when we start to drive up the anxiety, assuming the worst is going to happen, deflect, nothing’s happened, yet we don’t have to go there.

4. ReplacingAnd step number four, to improve positive thinking, is focusing on that replacement. So we have the awareness that’s part of the highlighting and checking it. Then it’s stopping the thought, but then it’s saying, what do you want to say to yourself in response or in response? So if I say, Jenn, you’re not good enough. A reframe or a replacement thought would be, I am good enough. Or if I said, I don’t know this. I don’t know this yet. That yet demonstrates again to your brain that you’ll figure it out. And another way to challenge it is, again, reminding yourself, what would you say to a friend? What would you say to them? Because we are so incredibly mean to ourselves. The greatest abuse a human will ever endure is the abuse inflicted upon them by themselves. And that quote is from the four agreements. And it’s a reminder that sometimes we can actually be the biggest bullies to ourselves.

5. FocusingAnd the final step to improving your thinking is focusing and knowing that it’s natural, that fear that your past thoughts are going to come up. But this is where you can practice that growth mindset. Understand that, heck, you’re always learning. If you’re not growing, you are dying. Every single day is an opportunity to learn something new. Do something new and grow. Practice that growth mindset. Know that it’s the opposite. Growth believes that we can always change. That fixed mindset says, Nope, this is exactly who you are, and here’s what I want to say to you. You can always change, but real talk requires you to put in the effort. And no one will want your success more than you. So you’ve gotta want this for yourself. And just remember that you have been thinking about this for yourself, but everyone else around you also has bad programming. So be supportive. Help people talk about it, normalize it. The more we normalize these conversations, the less awkward or weird or judgmental we might be to ourselves.

If You Don’t Like Something, Change It!And the final quote that I want to leave you with is that ”If you don’t like something, change it. And if you can’t change it, change how you look at it.” And that’s from Mary Engel Bright. Thank you so much for listening. I hope to see you next week at our webinar on January 26th. That’s a Thursday, 10:00 AM Eastern when we’ll have a conversation about what we just talked about— how to build that growth mindset.

If you enjoyed Today’s mini-sode, leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming service, or share the wealth to help other people disrupt their thoughts so they can be happier and more positive. Maybe you have someone struggling with confidence, and this could be an entryway you could use as a coaching tool to have that conversation. And in closing, if you ever want assistance with developing your leaders and making sure that you have the right tools to lead for the future of work, head on to Crestcom.com. We would love to help you with your developmental needs. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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Building Your Career the Hard Way with CEO and Author, Steven L. BlueHi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, the host of Crestcom’s, The Leadership Habit Podcast. I am so excited for this week’s episode, where I sit down with Steven L. Blue and talk about building your career— the hard way! Trust me, it’s a concept that many of us may not have thought about or want to embrace, but there’s a real benefit when we can adjust our mindset.

First—What’s Happening at Crestcom?But before we get into the show, and I tell you a little bit more about Steven Blue, let me tell you about what’s coming epic Crestcom. Every single month, we offer a complimentary webinar that is open to the public. And this month, our topic is New Year, New Mindset, Develop a Growth Mindset for a Successful 2023. This webinar is free, open to the public, and done virtually, and you can register by going to Crestcom.com and going into our resources tab. The event date is January 26th, and the time is 10:00 AM Eastern or 8:00 AM Mountain. I would love to see you there. Now, let’s get into this show.

I want to tell you a little more about Steven Blue because he and I had a great conversation about building your career the hard way. So here goes, it’s a little more about Steven, with more than 40 years of management, executive consulting and speaking experience worldwide. Miller Ingenuity President and CEO Steven L. Blue is a leading mid-market CEO and a globally regarded business growth authority who has transformed companies into industry giants and enthralled audiences with his dynamic keynotes. He’s the author of five highly acclaimed books, including Metamorphosis from Rust Belt to High Tech in a 21st Century World. I hope you enjoy our conversation as Steven and I discuss building your career the hard way.

Full Transcript BelowJenn DeWall: Wow, Steven Blue, we are here to talk about building your career the hard way. I love that people might be thinking, what do you mean? I’m waiting for that quick fix, like that anecdote that skyrockets my career success. And here you are, building a podcast episode around building it the hard way. What’s wrong with you? But before you drop off, I want to introduce you to today’s guest, Steven Blue, because he is our expert today that’s going to be helping and sharing examples and stories of why we need to look at our career growth and development in a different way. Steven, we are so happy to have you on the Leadership Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the show.

Steven L. Blue: Well, it’s my pleasure to be here, Jenn. Thank you for inviting me.

Meet Steven L. Blue — CEO, Best-Selling Author, and Keynote SpeakerJenn DeWall: Oh, yes, I love it. And I love this topic because I think if I go back 15 years in my career, I can think of all the times that I just thought success was supposed to happen yesterday. That’s the first thing, right? Like, oh, because I worked, I deserved this promotion. I definitely lacked a lot of emo emotional intelligence, but yet I had the ambition of wanting to be the CEO without any business of being a CEO, yet I forgot about all the growth that has to happen in each of those positions because I got too excited. And so I had pain with going about it. I got frustrated. But you know what, bringing it back to it, building your career the hard way, I wouldn’t have had it any other way. Life is hard. But let’s go ahead. Before we jump into this show, Steven, I would love could you go ahead and just introduce yourself to your audience, share your background and tell us a little bit more about yourself?

Steven L. Blue: Yeah. I I grew up in a blue collar family. My mother was a waitress and my father was a truck driver. They couldn’t afford to send me to college, so I joined the Navy and I spent four years in the Navy. And while I was in the Navy, I took a lot of co courses that were accredited that it’s called the United States Armed Forces Institute. And then when I got out of the Navy, I still couldn’t afford to go to college. And so I went to night school for I don’t know how many years, Jenn, but I didn’t get my bachelor’s degree until I was 40.

Jenn DeWall: Hey, congratulations on that accomplishment too. And for those listening, we can do it. We just have to make it happen.

Steven L. Blue: You just gotta work at it. And then I didn’t get my MBA until I was 52. And so I sort of took the, you know, long, long approach and but you know, I was working for employers that would pay for that. But it’s tough going to night school and working a full-time job and all that. And the thing I learned, people ask me this all the time, Jenn, is, you know, what do you value more of the educational credentials or the work credentials? And I say the answer to that is both. I had a fortunate experience in that I was able to meld both of them together. So I’m in night school and they’re, especially in my MBA program, they’re telling me, here’s how business works and here’s what you, and here’s how it is. And I’m thinking, no, not really.

You know, that’s really not how it goes. Not to take anything away from higher education. I happen to be the CEO in residence for the Winona State University. So I’m pretty deep into higher ed. But y and, and whenever they bring me in to talk to a group of students, the professors are always like this, nodding their heads and saying, yeah, yeah, that’s right. It’s what I’ve been telling ’em all along, and I’m glad you’re here. So I, I went the hard way at that. And when I started in industrial leadership, if you will, I started off as a lowly factory supervisor, right at the bottom of supervision. And over the years, and this is sort of the point of the podcast, Jenn, over the years, I started taking on every tough assignment that I could find, all the toxic wasteland places that nobody wanted to go to.

And in fact, early in my career, the only reason I got sent to do these things is because nobody else wanted, wanted the job. So I took it. And over the years I ended up being in every department in an organization and several organizations. So, you know, I was in marketing, I was in sales, I was in factory supervision, inventory control. And so I got to learn the ins and outs at the bottom-level of every organization. And then as I, you know, moved up in leadership positions in the middle management, and then C-suite and, and so forth. And I tell people all the time, you know, people love lists, you know and, and I have lists too, right? The seven most things this, the six most things that, and people want this is to your point or earlier in the show, people want a simple way sure-fire way, do these seven things, check it off the box, and you’re done.

Moving From Industrial Leadership to AuthorshipSteven L. Blue: And, you know, life, it doesn’t work that way. And about the time I was in lower senior management, I’ve, I’ll never forget this, Jenn, I’m sitting in my family room and I’m on my laptop and I’m writing my first book, and my wife comes down, she says, what the heck are you doing? And I said, well, I’m writing a book. She goes, you don’t know anything about writing a book and you don’t know anything to write a book about. I said, well, you know, sort of, I do. And then I’ve done five of ’em. One was a bestseller with Jack Canfield. Then I started doing speeches. I thought I’d like to share my knowledge and, you know, sort of my experience with other people in, in speaking. And I started off the usual way first. There was, you know, the local Kiwanis Club. They, they’ll, they’ll take anybody to make a speech. And I was horrible at it. I was just really awful about it. And then over time I sort of honed my speaking career. And these days I do speeches at United Nations, Carnegie Hall, Harvard Business School. And so I’ve, I’ve kind of reached the, the top echelon of speaking, but I, but I really like it because I get the chance to share my experience with, cause I’ve, I’m a been there, done that CEO I’m not an academic, although I do that in part, I I have real life and real-world experience to share in that.

The Problem with Building Your Career the Fast WaySteven L. Blue: So I’ve built the career the hard way. I don’t know what the easy way is. You know, I don’t know. You walk into an organization and they like you and they promote you and they promote you and they promote. I’m, I’m not sure that even exists, but that didn’t happen for me.

Jenn DeWall: Right. I think it exists. I think that when it might happen that easy, and it’s based on maybe more of sometimes those personal relationships, we might get promoted too fast. Yeah. Cause we’re well liked. Yeah. And then we might miss critical opportunities for growth. So then there might be that point. I think you and I talked about that on the pre-call. Yeah. That I, I had worked with someone that, you know, flew up the ranks and then, and it was based on that he had great executive and leadership presence. He had a great ability to manage up. He was very well respected and liked, but they moved him so quickly up the ladder that there was a point then when he was in a visible position and everyone could kind of see he didn’t necessarily know what he was doing. Yep.

It was kind of like he was set up to fail because people didn’t stop and say, well, we like you, but did we do our due diligence to set you up to succeed? Yep. But I know it’s a balance, right? Because there’s that piece that you just shared. You were willing, you had the attitude of like, I’ll try anything. Like I’ll say yes to the opportunity, even if I don’t know it yet, I’ll figure it out. I don’t have to be the expert. Yeah. But no, for those that are sitting here listening– the hard way, think about the consequences sometimes when you think it’s so easy for some people, think about maybe potential obstacles that might happen when we rush ourselves through our growth, because we miss those opportunities for learning that really help everything click and connect. Yep. Oh my gosh, Steven, I love this.

I love just your knowledge. And honestly, me as a new speaker that’s starting so small that’s trying to do all the things, I sit here and I’m like, how in the heck did you get there? Will that ever happen? I don’t even know all the imposter syndrome. And, you know, self-doubt that I think people are thinking about when they think about where do I go next in my career? So I’m just gonna be loving this conversation. So let’s talk about building your career the hard way, because again, I hope you’ve got a little bit of counterpoints. You’ve heard from Steven about his success that he is had by being willing and open to opportunities no matter what. But where, Steven, from your perspective, where do people get it wrong? Where do people get their career development

What People Get Wrong about Career DevelopmentSteven L. Blue: Wrong? Well, in a couple of places. That’s a good question, Jenn. First of all, they they look for the glamorous and easy assignments. The ones that they’re guaranteed for success and they know they can do. You know you wanna grab onto the assignments that you don’t know that you can do it. You’ve never done it before because that’s how you grow, right? I go into, used to go into, especially in the beginning, I’d go into these places and they were just wrecks. I mean, it was just absolute wrecks. Everything was messed up, everything was wrong. I’d go into there and I’d go, I have no idea how to do this. I have no idea how to fix this, but I do do know I need to do it. So I would just sort of dig in and, you know, you start learning from the bottom of an organization how an organization works.

And I, I just did a, wrote a piece for industry week the other day. A lot of CEOs, you know, when you look at CEO progression, it’s usually up through sales usually. Okay. Maybe 60% of the time. It might be up through marketing, maybe 20% of the time, very seldom. But occasionally finance or engineering. The problem with that is they, they’ve grown up in silos, and that’s the only silo they know. So it’s like, you know, if you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So when they become CEOs and there’s an issue in the organization, or there’s an opportunity that the organization can’t seem to take advantage of, they think, okay, it’s a sales thing. I, I know this, I’ll dig down. It’s a sales problem. But they, they ignore the fact that it might be an engineering problem, a marketing problem, customer service problem.

I don’t know. A whole myriad of things. And the problem with a lot of people when they get up that high, you just mentioned it, they really don’t know what to do because they’ve never had the experience of having to do it. And you know, I told somebody the other day, I said, the reason I know so much is not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I’m so old. . I’ve been around a long time and I’ve seen a lot of things. And so I, I tell CEOs all the time, Jenn, you don’t have a problem that I haven’t seen. And in fact, you don’t have a problem that I haven’t already solved. And that comes from depth and breadth of experience in an organization. But most people don’t want to do that. They want the fast track. You know, you know how it is with the organization, especially big companies.

Is Being Labeled a High-Potential Employee Actually Bad for Your Career?Steven L. Blue: They have, what do they call ’em, the high performers, right? The worst thing that could happen to you is to be identified as a high performer, a high potential, excuse me, high potential employee. Because then your head just explodes and you’ve got, you know, a maniacal ego. But you’re totally insecure. And and that’s just the worst thing that happen because then you start thinking, I can do no wrong. And when people or organizations think they can do no wrong, then they do wrong. Because they, they, they never considered the possibility that I could be wrong about something.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. Or even like, that honestly just reminds me of being in my twenties. I had fast growth, I was well respected, my first position, get promoted, second position, get promoted, get promoted to the third position with this, within this company to a pretty visible position. I, I beat out a lot of people. I had high ego, right? People would be like, oh my gosh, Jenn, you’re on the fast track. And then all of a sudden I got accepted into their MBA program promoted to this really visible position. I definitely had that puffed up ego. And fast forward to a year, oh wait, two years. Oh wait, three years. Yeah. I never got promoted again. You know what, because what got me there did not work there. No. And I didn’t have, because of my ego and lack of emotional intelligence at that time, I did not have that perspective. So that rings so true. And it was painful. ,

The Hidden Value in a Career SetbackSteven L. Blue: There’s nothing like a good setback, Jenn, to give you humility and perspective. I remember one time I was sure I was gonna get this particular promotion. I mean, it was in the bag. I was a high performance person and it had to be mine, and it went to somebody else. I was devastated. I I almost quit. Which would’ve been dumb because I’m thinking, how could that possibly happen? I was the best person for the job. Doesn’t matter if you’re the best person for a job in a big company or not, you know that Yeah. It, a lot of things matter. And, and that gave me perspective, caused me to sit back and really think about, well, why didn’t I get that promotion? And maybe I wasn’t, you know, you, if you get a promotion, what do they call it? The Peter Principal, then you get fired Right? When you can’t do it. So the worst thing that happened is you get in a job you can’t do and you get fired, then there’s no coming back from that. Right. You don’t go to your next employer and say, well, you know, I was sort of of, okay, and then I got this promotion, I get fired, but I’m okay. You can, you should still hire me.

Jenn DeWall: . I love that perspective though. Think about what’s the consequence. I mean, because there’s, you can talk about imposter syndrome, you know, like that’s fine. We can have a little bit of that, but we sometimes have to check our ego and say, can I honestly, am I prepared for this? Yep. Because the consequence of not having the skillset or the experience or desire, and I just want people to think I’m great, is that I could end up on the other side of that. Yeah. I, I love because you said it in there and I know that was one of your next points too, of like, you wanted to quit when you didn’t have that. And so where else do people get career development wrong? Is it just walking out the door? Is that they just give up at the point of, well, this didn’t go as planned, so I’m outta here.

Experience and Learning will Build Your Career Over TimeSteven L. Blue: Yeah, well that’s part of it. But you know, the other part of it is you have to do a lot of soul searching. If you don’t get a promotion is a good example. You have to really examine. People usually don’t wanna do this. Get a look deep inside you and say, okay, what skills and experience do I not have that I really need? Most people, they want to, they want to just assume that somebody will figure that out for ’em. Have to figure it out for yourself. When I, I worked for Alan Bradley 35, or maybe even 40 years ago now, now they’re owned by Rockwall. Alan Bradley had the most advanced and special and terrific leadership training programs on the planet. And they knew how to treat people well, I’ll give you an example. Harry Bradley, who founded the company, for those of you that aren’t familiar with Alan Bradley when it got bought by Rockwell, it got bought for one point some odd billion dollars and it was privately held and had no debt and it had no outside capital.

Okay. So that’s a pretty terrific company, right? Yeah. Harry Bradley, who was one of the founders of the company, lived in the top floor of the factory in Milwaukee and on the midnight shift, he’d walk around the factory and he wasn’t walking around the factory to make sure people were working. He was walking around the factory to make sure they felt good, they felt respected, they were treated well. And, and he would come down on you if you were a supervisor or a manager or a leader or a vice chairman or whatever that didn’t treat people well, he’d just fire you. And that was the statement that Alan Bradley made you treat people well or you can’t work here. And I was fortunate early in my career to get the best leadership training I could have ever had. Yeah. But anyway, so one of the things

Jenn DeWall: I just, I mean, before you go into that, that is profound. If we could all have those expectations, if you don’t treat people well, you’re outta here. Think about how great our cultures can be. That is profound. Sorry to interrupt you, but like, that is beautiful,

Steven L. Blue: But you have to act it out. I’ll give you an example. And while I was working at Allen Bradley I took one of these crummy assignments at a little dinky plant in Ann Arbor, Michigan. They lived in Cleveland at the time, Ohio. So I moved, my wife and I, we didn’t have kids in, we moved to Ann Arbor and I was sort of sent there to find out what was going wrong. And the plant manager ran the place like a plantation. He was a complete, I won’t say what on a podcast. Complete jerk that treated people badly. And so I reported all this back to headquarters and they promptly fired him. They just fired him because they didn’t tolerate that kind of treatment of people. And when you, when you take action like that, Jenn it sends a profound message to the rest of the organization.

Jenn DeWall: Wow. That’s gonna make me, I mean I, I lived in Milwaukee for eight years. I’m familiar with the Bradley Clock tower,

Steven L. Blue: You know? Yeah. Oh yeah. The full Senate clock tower.

Jenn DeWall: Now that just makes me, it gives a different meaning to that.

Steven L. Blue: It was a pretty amazing place.

Learning to Treat People Well Will Improve Your CareerJenn DeWall: Well, yeah, because I, you just, there are so many, I think, and you’ve obviously seen this in your work of so many organizations that are reluctant to reprimand bad behavior, to set what they’re gonna expect because they think they might lose a top performer. They don’t think about everything else. Right? I mean, gosh, from your perspective, what do, how do you take that? Because I’m sure you’ve seen it too, with other organizations where they tolerate not great leadership or not great people skills.

Steven L. Blue: No, no. It’s, and it’s it’s a cultural killer. Typically, you know, if you’re a sales guy, you can get away with murder because, you know, they’re afraid. Oh my God, if I take this guy out, you know, I’ll lose all the business. None of that is true. None of it is true. I’ve taken out probably more sales guys than any other leadership position in, in my whole career. because sales guys tend to have big eagles. And they tend to believe that because of the customer relationship, they, they’re untouchable. And then people look at that and they go, that’s wrong. The way he treats people is wrong. But because he’s a superstar, Bill O’Reilly is a good example of that. Right. He was a superstar at Fox News and they finally took him out. They probably should have taken him out before they did for bad behavior. We don’t need to go into what it was, but they should have take, I wrote a piece for the Wall Street Journal about that. They should have taken him out long ago because yeah, he’s a superstar, but the damage that a superstar like him can do in your organization is just unbelievable. Yeah. Then it rubs off on people.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. But I think you also provided the solution within that, you know, of to avoid the individuals like that, that are the office jerks. The ones that we don’t wanna work with. This is, if you don’t wanna be that person, this is why you also wanna slow down Yep. To observe and learn. And I know we’re gonna go into now how to actually build your career the hard way. Mm-Hmm. , any last comments that you would share about where people get career development

Steven L. Blue: Wrong? Yeah. Well, when I was at Allen Bradley, the, we had a place, we, we used to call it charm school. And it was actually the Center for Creative Leadership. I think it was in Greensboro, North Carolina. You may might be familiar with it. Uhhuh, . And before you went that you went, you’d spend, spend a week in charter school with a bunch of shrinks. Right? And before you went there, you would take all kinds of psychological assessments, the MMPi, you know, all the personality assessment, and then everybody that worked underneath you and everybody you worked for and everybody you worked with would do assessments about what they think about you. Right. And so then you’re with the shrinks for the entire week. And, and the last day is when you get the whole data dump on what everybody thinks about you, what the shrinks think about you, what your boss thinks.

Steven L. Blue: And it’s all anonymous. You don’t know who said what, you know. And it’s terrifying because oh my God, I’m finally gonna get a complete 360 view of what people think about me, how I’m perceived, and how you’re perceived to dictates everything in terms of how successful you can be. And that wasn’t just a profound experience for me. And I would recommend that kind of if you, I don’t know, I didn’t even know if they’re still wrong. They probably are. If you get down to the Center for Creative Leadership, it’s not cheap. It’s probably $10,000, I would guess. Now maybe more. Go down and get it and you’ll get the best view of who you are and what your weaknesses are. And I tell CEOs all the time, the strengths of your company will never put you out of business. So don’t worry about that. Don’t even talk about that. Don’t even think about that. Think about what the weaknesses are.

Perception is Reality When You are Building Your CareerJenn DeWall: Yeah. I like, well, and I like the important piece you said in terms of where do people get career development wrong? You don’t realize that perception is reality. Yeah. That how people think of you is going to determine that. And that’s where I think the ego place, like I did not have the emotional intelligence or the self-awareness to realize that. Yeah. And I think for me, I got that piece of feedback, Hey Jenn, we need you to do X, Y, Z. And I was like, what? What do you mean I was so successful these past few times? I don’t understand. Well, they don’t perceive you to be, you know, concerned about the business. If they see you laughing, they don’t perceive you to be. And I could go in and argue why I may not agree with that,

Steven L. Blue: It doesn’t matter.

Jenn DeWall: But at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. like, doesn’t matter.

Steven L. Blue: It’s reality.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And it’s a hard pill to swallow, but instead of being afraid of it, we can also think, how can I control the narrative?

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Building Your Career the Hard Way is the Only WayJenn DeWall: So how can you control the narrative? How can you set yourself up for success for being the leader that you want to be? How can you build your career the hard way? Here we go, Steven. So how can we do it?

Steven L. Blue: The hard way is the only way, I mean the easy way is how you flame out, how you burn out, how you get sidetracked, how you get fired. And so I, I would never and the hard way is, is in a nutshell, Jenn, is take on the hard, hard, hard, hard assignments. Learn everything you can about an organization. Don’t worry about getting promoted. Okay? Too many people think, how do I get the next promotion? How do, and in part that’s the pay system, right? Incentive system and incentivize bigger, you know, there’s bigger levels in the yard. They use the hay, whatever it’s called now, they incentivize you for, you know, how if you have more people working for you, you make more money and all that kind of stuff. And so you, you shouldn’t worry about, you know, getting promoted. What you should worry about is adding the most value that you can in the place that you’re at while you’re at it.

Steven L. Blue: And if you do that, and if you get known as a problem solver, I guarantee you that promotions will come. I had all kinds of crap assignments and hole in the wall places before I was promoted. Then, then, then the general managers of different divisions go, Hey, can I borrow blue for a month or two months or six months to have ’em fix something? And then once that started happening, then I got recognized as somebody that was worth worthy of promotion as opposed to someone who thinks they’re worthy of promotion and goes, me, me, me, me, me, promote me. I, I’m ready for it. That’s kind of how it happens.

Jenn DeWall: Oh, I love that. Well, and it’s, that’s a tactic, right? And of itself be the problem solver. Yeah. It’s be this problem solver. Look at the, look at your team, look at your organization. What problem are you facing and how can you solve it? And don’t, I mean, I guess within that, did you have, it sounds like if they asked you, you took the opportunity to solve the problem, but would you also just jump into it and be like, there’s a problem here. I bet I could be curious and try to figure out how to solve that. Would you just naturally, you know, follow a

Learning to Solve Problems Comes with ExperienceSteven L. Blue: That’s a good, that’s a good comment question, Jenn, because I went I went to, I would solve problems that I wasn’t even asked to. I’d see a problem, it might be in another department, it might be in another area. No one asked me to solve. And I’d go, this isn’t right, so I’m just gonna go and solve it. And then I, people started noticing me, they go, no, I didn’t ask him. The guy in charge or the, the person, woman in charge say I didn’t ask him do that. But boy, I sure am glad he did. That’s a problem that’s been festering for a long time. Nobody has tackled it music because because it was toxic and not very sexy and all that. I would just go grab problems. And, and you know that part of the mechanics of problem solving is the more you do it, the better you get at it. The more you’re intuitive and your analytical skills get sharpened for the next problem.

Jenn DeWall: Well, and you are so right. I would by nature not describe myself as an analytical person. I am a much more expressive and big person. Mm-Hmm. . But it’s because of those opportunities working with organizations and curiosity to want to solve problems that I feel like I’ve kind of addressed my blind spot and developed that skill. It’s still not my strength. I, I’m not gonna say I’m the best problem solver, but I definitely have a more analytical mind just by being willing to attempt it. Yeah. Well, but how do you, ok so tell me this because I guarantee this happened to you and I know it probably happened to someone else. So let’s say that they find themselves the boss or you know, someone comes up and asks a request, Hey, would you like to do this project? And in your head you’re like, okay, Steven just gave me that advice that I’m supposed to do it, but what if I don’t feel like I can do it? What if I actually, you know, think I’m a moron or don’t think I’m good enough or think I can’t figure it out? because I know that we all have those moments of insecurity. That’s why we wouldn’t want to do that. What would be your advice for the person in that, in that shoes, that’s all right. I’m gonna take Stevens advice, but holy cow, I have to get through this mindset stuff here. What advice would you have for them?

Embracing a Growth Mindset to Find Opportunities to LearnSteven L. Blue: You know, that that mindset’s the problem that everybody has in every day of their life for everything that they do. Unless they’ve done it a million times before. I don’t care if you’re a a, a, a husband or if you’re a wife or you’re a business person, it’s like, I’m, I’m not good enough for this. Whatever it is that’s just sort of human nature that you have to sort of get her out. And the thing that people have to realize is, before you do something like this, take on a problem that you haven’t solved before. There are no answers. Y you’re not gonna have the answer. If anybody had an answer for that, they’d have fixed it by now. And so you got just as good a shot as anybody else to fix it. And I’ll tell you what, what doesn’t happen is if you plunge into a problem, especially if you volunteer for one and you can’t fix it, they’re not gonna fire you for that. They’re gonna, they’re gonna cheer you on and say, well thank you so much for trying that. Maybe you want to try something else. And the, the, the world is full of risk takers and the world is full of risk. Avoiders don’t be a risk avoider because you can’t, you can’t build a career that way. The other thing I would say is don’t expect or ask for a promotion after you’ve done something. Just go do it. Don’t brag about it. Don’t advertise it. The word will get around.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I think that’s a really important piece that I’ll speak for myself, but I I’m gonna go with people maybe earlier on in the career. This is a really valuable piece. Just because you’ve also done the basics of your job doesn’t mean that you’re ready to get promoted again. I get it. Cause I was absolutely an overzealous millennial coming in and feeling like, well I know I’m doing a good job so I guess I deserve this. I made all of those mistakes. So I am am not judging you if you find yourself in that position. But note that there is a piece where we’ve got to show more intrinsic value beyond just the scope of what we were initially hired for to say, yes, I’m ready for the next challenge. Because they already made the, the first promotion that was the job offer. We trust that you can do these basic responsibilities. Right. The next one comes when they say, oh wow, you’ve exceeded these responsibilities. Right. That’s exactly, I think people miss that.

It’s Not About What You DeserveSteven L. Blue: And you know what the world doesn’t care what you deserve or anybody else, you know, they don’t care. The bosses and business, they don’t care what you think you deserve. They don’t, they don’t even wanna know about it. What you deserve is completely irrelevant. What you can satisfy in terms of problem solving. The world needs problem solvers. And I don’t, and every business and every time, you know, you’ve got millennials now and you’ve got, you know, the quiet quitting and all that stuff going on. Every business in the world, every family in the world, every organization in the world has problems and they all need them solved. So if you’re good at problem solving, then you’re golden.

Jenn DeWall: And I love it. You hit on just that basic accountability. It is on you. It is not on someone to be, I’ve, I’ve heard it described as the knight and shining armor that comes on a horse and rescues you and says, oh, I’m here to give you all of your career dreams.

Steven L. Blue: Doesn’t happen. Doesn’t happen. It

Jenn DeWall: Doesn’t happen like that. And even if it does for one promotion, just like it did for me, it doesn’t mean it’s always gonna happen like that.

Steven L. Blue: No, no. That that’s exactly right, . That’s exactly right. And I, and I tell people also, when you, when you, when you, when you dive in and wade into the problem solving world, you’re gonna get a lot of pushback. You’re gonna get a lot of resistance. You’re gonna get, because people are worried that they’ll get flagged as the person that caused the problem. Whatever. You’re gonna get a lot of obstacles in your career. I’ve had bricks thrown through my window. I’ve had death threats. I’ve had attempted blackmails, you name it, I’ve had, I had a high risk security detail one time to guard my family. When you wait into the world of problem solving and you’re good at it, the bosses above love it. But all the people that are involved in the problem, they hate it.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my, I I won’t ask, I’m sure you probably can’t go into detail, but like, so how do, because you clearly have overcome some adversity as a result of people maybe not wanting to change, not wanting to see it. Yeah. And I think this is a struggle for a lot of people, regardless of how many years, if they haven’t seen that problem before, how do you deal with that when you’re seeing and you’re promoting something that isn’t going to be well liked? What would be advice for someone in that perspective?

Steven L. Blue: Well, first of all, I have to strap on your flack jacket and get ready for incoming because it’s coming . Yeah. Now, no, after all these years, Jenn, it doesn’t surprise me. I know it’s coming. I, I watch for it. I’m ready for it when it comes. And you sort of have to be part cheerleader, part bully, part magician. And you sort of have to cajole. And sometimes you have to take people out. If there are people that are really against the initiative, you do your best to try to convince them why it’s righteous and all that. But if they don’t come along, you just have to get rid of them because then they start infecting the rest of the organization. If you don’t but you sort of have to put on your flack jacket and, and go, oh yeah, well I I figured I’d probably get a death threat over this one. Or I figured I’d get a brick through the window over this one. And the bigger the challenge and the bigger the problem, the bigger the resistance you’re gonna get. But you gotta muscle your way through that.

Jenn DeWall: Well, and what I hear you say is you have to accept that it’s going to be there. Yeah. And not dive into that resistance. Know that that is a part of it. It’s not saying, Jenn, you are a horrible person that’s never gonna do well or do blank. That is actually a part of the work that you’re doing. It’s not a personal characteristic of who you are or will be.

Steven L. Blue: It’s a big part of it. And after a while you go, okay, yep. Been there, been there, done that. Here comes the resistance. I was ready for it. Here comes the sabotage. Here comes the threats, here comes the passive resistance. You name it, I I’ve seen it all and I’ve been able to work my through way through all. But in the beginning I’d go, oh my God, I thought everybody had loved me for doing this. No, people don’t love you for solving problems, at least not your peers because then they look bad because you solve something they should have.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Knowing that it’s that you might, if you’re well into solving a problem that people might get triggered. I mean, you can think about it in the basic level. If I think about oh gosh, like right now I, I work with a company and like there’s limitations due to a software or I was just coaching someone. Here’s a perfect example. I was just coaching someone on a presentation that they were building and what they are going to present is an opportunity to improve the automation of one of their processes. And they’re a major tech company and they, you know, he’s like, I’m really nervous about bringing this up because I know that the second I talk about our gaps, that there are going to be people in the room that are like, no, no, no, you can absolutely see all this. Don’t you see it? Yep. And, and that’s why it’s so important to think about that finesse of like how we are bringing these problems to light too. Because I know some are going to call for a very direct, this is what the problem is, but sometimes we have to be a little bit more creative about how we’re presenting it to be mindful of that response. Or Wait, what’s your take on that? Do you, would you just like say it and get to the point or would you soften it?

Steven L. Blue: Well that depends. When I’m a CEO I get the right to put it right to the point. Like can muscle my way through anything when I wasn’t a CEO. And even sometimes as a CEO you have to finesse your way around things. And if you understand people that I, that I do very well. And if you understand organization dynamics, which is tricky in any organization, the bigger organizations there are, the more organization dynamics there are. And if you understand those dynamics, you can sort of move the chess pieces around the board a little bit. You can influence here, you can push a little bit there. You can you know, cajole over here. And it’s, it’s not, like I said at the beginning of this, people like the five things I have to do to be a successful CEO, I’m sorry. There are no five things. It takes, you know, high finesse, high eq, it takes high experience and organization dynamics and they’re all kind of the same. Jenn generally organization dynamics. They may be more pronounced the bigger an organization is, but they’re all pretty much the same. They’re not that hard to figure out.

Incentives and Rewards Aren’t Just for People ManagersJenn DeWall: Yeah. I wanna ask, what’s your perspective, because I think we’re seeing a shift right now where hopefully I know the incentive and reward system for people as it relates to career development is to follow the money, which is following a title, which is typically then going into people management because not a lot of organizations are set up to maybe reward the technical leaders. Right? What would be your advice to someone that is looking at this and they’re like, I love solving problems, but I feel like the only way I can do it is to be a people leader and I don’t wanna be a people leader. Or how would you help people discern that and accept the fact that even if you’re not a people leader, it doesn’t mean you don’t add value, but you have to know, are you a person that wants to work with people because it’s, it’s hard when you’re leading people. That’s challenging. I know I kind of said a lot there, but really what I’m trying to understand is like what, how would you help people understand that it doesn’t have to just be a people leadership path. Like there’s a technical path. You don’t have to just be a people leadership path. Be open to finding different opportunities. You don’t have to just be a leader.

Steven L. Blue: People leader. The pro, the problem with most of the organizations that they used to call it the hay system, I don’t know what they call it now cause I I don’t use it anymore. It basically rewards you for more people responsibility, more people that are underneath you and all that kind of stuff. And then they guys, and that, that’s really kind of bad because you’re just asking people to amass a bunch of people behind them and underneath them that they may not need. And, and so then they got smart and they did what they called the dual technical career ladder for what you just talked about. People who are really, you know, normally the people that get promoted into supervisory, excuse me, supervisory positions are the ones that are the best at what they do. And then, then they’re usually horrible at people leadership.

And so they created the dual track. So if you’re really good at what you do, a hay system or whatever the compensation system of, of these days can reward you at higher levels of compensation along the way for technical contributions. But I just have to say though, while we’re on the subject, that most companies, especially the big companies, they got the compensation thing all wrong. They got the incentive thing all wrong. And I’ll tell you how it, why, why I mean that every department and most organizations has their goals, right? And they get compensated based on achieving the goals, right. Incentive to hit their goals. Right? So I’ll give you not an extreme example because I’ve seen this and I’ve I’ve been there and done that. The manufacturing guy’s goal is to shove everything out the back door that he can’t, right?

If he does that, he hits his goal. The quality guy’s goal is to make sure nothing gets out the back door that has any possibility of a defect. So those two are at odds with each other, right? Mm-Hmm. and in my company, what I advise CEOs, okay, departments have to have their goals. I get that. But unless the company hits its profit goal, nobody gets anything. And now all of a sudden everybody, you know, they may have their own goals, they’re not conflicting with each other. Everybody knows that if we hit the profit goal and we should work toward that, we get the goodies. If we don’t hit the profit goal, nobody gets the goodies. And that’s how you eliminate all this nonsense that happens in organizations and the infighting and the, the conflicting goals. I actually had a manufacturing guy, didn’t work for me, worked was one of my peers on the last day of the month, he’d load up a bunch of tractor trailers for with products that we had no orders for because he got paid when it went out the back door. So he’d ship all these truck trailers around and they’d drive around the city, then come back on the first of the month and he’d put it all back in inventory and he hit his goal. He hit his incentive. How insane is that?

Jenn DeWall: That’s insane. What a loophole to work through

Steven L. Blue: . I know, I know. This was a big company. He was doing this and everybody knew it. Everybody knew it because then he shouldn’t have had that goal. He should have had the company profitability goal then he wouldn’t be doing that nonsense.

Lateral Moves Can Also Help Build Your CareerJenn DeWall: I love that. Well, and you’re right. You’re so right. There are so many organizations where we just compete for our own goals and motivations. We don’t collaborate well together, right? It’s always a me instead of a we. And we’re not, I think that’s a really profound way of saying it because I think even in terms of how we understand the priority of other people’s challenges, if we just look at our own agenda, then we don’t give respect for other people’s time and where they need to focus it based on those goals. And they’re all goals. We’re all in this together. I love that Steven so much. Trying to think of what I wanted to add. Either like, the last thing that we didn’t even talk about, which I think you see a lot with younger generations and then we’re gonna wrap up. But curious your perspective on lateral moves, the ones that people don’t want because it doesn’t necessarily come with the title change or the fancy title and they don’t get the glory of saying, now I moved up, up, up that hierarchy. But yet lateral moves are the most underrated career opportunity out there.

Steven L. Blue: Absolutely right. I made, I can’t remember how many lateral moves I made, you know, in from production into marketing, into sales and equality, all lateral moves. And again, I wasn’t trying to get a promotion. I was trying to get experience and I was trying to get a reputation as somebody who could make things happen. Promotions always come later. If you’re any good, you don’t have to ask for ’em. You don’t have, and if they don’t come later or Jenn, you’re in the wrong company, go find another company that will reward you for what you do. And so, I, I can’t remember, I I would encourage lateral moves because it increases your depth and your experience and your ability to be promoted later on.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. I love that. I mean, and I think you even hit a very strong closing pause, right? Don’t just go for the promotion, go for the experience. Yep. Go for the reputation. Go for the knowledge. That’s where the growth is. That’s

Steven L. Blue: Actually most will come later. Everything will come later. If it doesn’t after a reasonable amount of time, change companies, that’s all. But most companies and most people are in charge of these companies, they’ll recognize that and they’ll reward you for it because they want you to do more of it.

Where to Find More From Steven L. BlueJenn DeWall: Yeah. They need that attitude. So be that person. Yeah. Steven, I have loved our conversation. I either wanna have you back to talk about culture or the other thing, which I know we talked about in the pre-call because I, I just really value your insights. The other thing I also wanna hear is resilience. because I feel like you have got heck of stories on resilience. Just, you know, based that on some of the things that you went through in your career and how you were still able to say, you know what, I’m gonna figure it out because many of us kind of suffer or think that we’re stuck or limited. And I think there’s so much there. But Steven, we’re gonna have you back. I really want to have you back. Good. I’d love to. But Steven, how can our audience get in touch with you?

Steven L. Blue: Well with MillerIngenuity.com, that’s my company website or StevenLBlue.com. That’s my personal website. Honestly, I don’t remember. I’d have to ask my my publicist what my LinkedIn is. I’ve got a link. But if you hit any one one of those you can find, you know, my social media and then you can basically get me that way.

Jenn DeWall: That’s Oh, awesome. Well, Steven, like your insights, your knowledge, and again, I will say this, my grandpa always said this to me, and I love this quote, and he always said this as a wiser peer, right? With someone with life experience. He’s not peer. Jenny, I have a million dollars worth of advice to you, but to you it means nothing. And that means that we have to get our own experience. So going back to your thing, like there’s not a five tips for it, it’s getting the experience. Nope. Chase the experience. Steven, thank you so much for being on the show and thank you so much for the impact that you had today. I know that someone’s gonna walk away feeling empowered to approach their, their career in a different way. So thank you.

Steven L. Blue: My pleasure.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast. I loved my conversation. It gave me inspiration to look at the problems, the challenges as opportunities for growth. Now if you want to connect with Steven and learn a little bit more about him, there are two different websites you can connect with. You can head on over to MillerIngenuity.com, the link is in our show notes and also StevenLBlue.com. There you can find any additional information about Steven, his speaking services, as well as additional resources that he provides.

Don’t Forget to Register for Our Next Crestcom Webinar!Now in closing, I want to remind you, I would love to see you at this month’s webinar, New Year, New Mindset, Develop a Growth Mindset for a Successful 2023.. So if you can make it, I hope to see you there on January 26th. And hey, if you enjoyed this conversation or if you know someone that’s struggling with their own career, share this with them, spread the wealth. And of course, if you love this episode, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Until next time.

The post Building Your Career the Hard Way with CEO and Author, Steven L. Blue appeared first on Crestcom International.

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How to Be Better Than Busy with Maureen FalveyHi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Maureen Falvey to talk about how we can be better than busy. Because here’s the thing, many of us are likely running around in our days feeling extremely busy. There are so many items on our to-do list, but here’s the thing I want you to reflect on. Busyness does not mean fulfillment. Just because we’re busy, it doesn’t mean that we’re happy, that we’re feeling good about our choices, or that we’re even prioritizing what’s most important to us. And that’s what the conversation is today.

Meet Maureen Falvey, Executive Coach and AuthorJenn DeWall: But before we jump into it, let me tell you a little bit more about Maureen. Maureen comes with over 25 years of business leadership experience, partnering with clients such as Proctor and Gamble, general Mills, Burger King, and United Airlines at top advertising shops, including Grey, Saatchi and Saatchi and mcgarrybowen. Over the years, she has designed countless mentoring, training and leadership programs for her teams. Simply put, Maureen is an activator. She uses strategic questions and positivity to meet people where they’re at and then take them where they want to go. So let’s do it. Let’s be better than busy.

Maureen, I am so happy to be talking with you. I mean the notion of today’s topic, how to be better than busy, maximize your time for the greatest fulfillment, even the expression better than busy. I just feel like it empowers me when I hear those words. I’m so excited to be talking about this. Maureen, thank you so much for coming to The Leadership Habit today. It’s so great to have you.

Maureen Falvey: I’m thrilled to be with you today, Jenn.

What does Better than Busy Mean?Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. So better than busy. That’s what, that’s what’s gonna be our focus. I know we’re gonna dive into it. We’re gonna talk about the tips and tricks because, obviously all of us are so used to just living our lives and autopilot busy as ever. We’ve got so much to do. But before we dive into that, Maureen, I would love to just introduce you to our audience. If you could go ahead and tell us about yourself, how it came to be, how you came to be, how you even became interested in this topic of being better than busy, even though I think, gosh, thank goodness you wrote a book on it because everyone actually needs to hear this

Maureen Falvey: Wonderful. Thank you. Yes. So I was I was in advertising for many, many years. It was a giant playground and I love the challenges we were solving. And my family, they’re all therapists by the way, would always ask me, when are you gonna join the family business? And I would laugh and Never say because your business model like you, what you’re doing take so long. And I don’t mean to make light of it, they save lives every day. It’s wonderful. But I’ve always been curious about what is the strategy that we could take on that would not only help us be better than busy, but just have great lives. Right? To never look back at the end of our, our week or our month or the year or God forbid our life and say what just happened? And so I’ve been on this journey in my ad career now as a coach and a trainer and a speaker as to really to wake people up and say, the best life happens when it happens on purpose. I have a strong belief that nothing great happens accidentally. So it happens by design. And so I’ve been on this mission in the work that I do and in the book that I co-authored to help people be better than busy.

Jenn DeWall: I just love your perspective on wanting to help people maximize to live life with intention. I don’t know, you know, I think sometimes all of us get caught up in o autopilot. And I hate to say it because I think sometimes the people that might have a greater awareness around the fragility of our time are the ones that might have gone through, you know, those life altering like earthquakes, right? Or I, I’ve heard someone call them life quakes, which I really like that term. And how do we help people realize that we’ve got to wake up and be more intentional with how we are actually using this beautiful gift of time? I love that message. Because that’s, that’s it, right? We get one short time here on this earth. How the heck do we wanna live it , like, it’s so important. So let’s, let’s dive into it. So what does it even mean to be better than busy from your perspective? You wrote the book The 25th, or you co-wrote a chapter in the book, Peak Performance: Mindset Tools for Entrepreneurs, The 25th Hour. Maybe we should start there. So what was the purpose of writing the 25th hour chapter in your book?

Do You Wish You Had a 25th Hour in the Day?Maureen Falvey: Yeah, I guess it’s twofold. Listen, like what, what do we hear from people? You know, we say, say, how are you? How many times do you hear back? Someone says, I’m busy. And you know what? We all are like, I still haven’t met a human who doesn’t fill their 24 hours. . I haven’t met that person yet. If you’re a housewife or you’re a CEO or you’re a bank or a business, right? You feel your 24 hours so busy is just like, it’s kind of a four letter word. It’s just not, it’s not, it doesn’t vibrate at a high frequency and it kind of telegraphs to people that you don’t have your act together as if life is happening to you and not for you. And so part of it is just this response of how when I say to someone, how are you doing?

And they say, I’m busy. I know they don’t feel good saying it and I’m not particularly energized hearing it. And I also hear people say all the time, oh, if only I had a 25th hour, an extra hour in the day, I crush it. And I sort of, you know, warmly say, you wouldn’t right? You, you first of all, there is no 25th hour. But second of all, you probably just throw it away the same way you do the 24 you were given. Unless you get super intentional and you plan for it and you know what your values are, what do you wanna honor today? You know what your priorities are. Without that, how do I know what to say yes and no to? Right? Right. We have to, and then we design it and then it’s very easy. No gets really easy cuz it’s not a part of my plan.

No gets really easy because that was 30th and my list of priorities. So it’s very easy. It’s very easy to see what to say yes and no to. So that was it. And I, you know, in that 25th hour, I just I I would be far more interested in taking an hour away and telling someone they have 23 and seeing which hour they would fight to get back and then saying, how do we plan to have more of those? Right. Everybody you fight for every hour in your day. And so that’s where that came from. Yeah.

Jenn DeWall: Sorry to interrupt. I’m so sorry to interrupt you. What are some of the, like if, have you asked that question? So if I took away one hour, what one would you fight for? Have you asked that question to your clients and what did they say? What was the maybe were there themes that you noticed in terms of what they would fight for?

Which Part of Your Day Are You Willing to Fight For?Maureen Falvey: It’s interesting, we’re social beings which is wonderful belonging Maslow’s hierarchy. It’s so important to us. And during the pandemic we realized how much we did or didn’t miss connecting. But the hour most people miss and it matters what matters to you. But the hour most people miss is the quiet time. The morning is usually what comes up. More so than evening. Right At the end of the day we seem to, as we go about the day, some of us are more so in reactive mode. We’ve lost control of the day. The time thieves have taken a bunch of things. We let it happen. But that silence, that quiet in the morning before we start reacting is the hour people want the most. And so I say as a coach, the first question I ask is, what is the benefit of that hour to you?

And they start to talk about the outcome and the ripple effect of having that time to breathe, whether it’s meditation or silence or a walk in nature, walking their dog. What is the ripple effect of that? And they talk about the joy and they talk about how they’re ready for the day and there’s a sense of preparedness, there’s a sense of confidence. So now they’re attracted to that hour cuz they’ve just thought, thought about all the great benefits. The next question I ask cuz I’d be crazy not to, is what, if it’s anything is in the way of having two hours like that? What, if anything, is in the way of ending your day the same way? And we talk about the obstacles and then we move them together and we put a plan together to have more of that wonderful part enjoy that they had at the beginning of the day. And it’s usually around, the thing that’s in the way is usually around not being mindful. Obviously not having a plan, but not being conscious of our yeses and nos. Right? We go about the rest of the day pleasing or we’ve just lost all of that sense. We don’t have a priority, there’s nothing to bring us back to center. So it just all kind of starts to fall apart.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my God, I, that was a beautiful response of, because I think most people do admire that thinking time, the quiet time. Mm-Hmm. , but we don’t realize how much that fills us and how it allows us to approach our day with just a different attitude. I think that’s beautiful and surprising. I’m surprised by that almost to hear that that’s the one. But it makes total sense because that’s when we get to quiet the noise. We’re not caught up in that, as you said, like the reactive mode. I love that. And so when we think about better than busy, it’s living our life with intention. What do you think, you know, gets in our way? So what are some of the obstacles that get in our way? Why do you feel like we’re not as fulfilled or we’re not able to do it?

How to be a Chief Editing Officer for Your LifeMaureen Falvey: Yeah. it’s surprisingly simple. We’re just, it’s like right in front of us and we’re just not grabbing it. There’s some external barriers and there’s one internal barrier. So the external barriers to being better than busy to being fulfilled, right? To is you could look to time management and you could block and tackle, right? So that’s an external barrier is I don’t have enough time, but you actually do. So Harvard Business Review did a study of the most effective Fortune 500 CEOs and how they spend their time and on Sunday night they look at their 168 hours for the week and they block and they tackle and they move. And they’re what Greg McKeown who wrote a book called Essentialism. He says, A CEO is actually a chief editing officer. And that what we cut is of supreme importance in staying aligned with our plan and our purpose.

So they do a lot of cutting and they move things around. And what’s interesting is about if you design your time that way, these Fortune 500 CEOs enjoy their weekends. They take their vacation, they have hobbies. When is the last time you know, all of you? What did we, did we net or bake bread Maybe during the pandemic we did, but they have hobbies. So when we get, when we master our time and we are in charge of it versus reacting, we get a whole lot. Right? A lot of time we might get that second hour of joy in there , right? So they block it and it also makes it easier to say yes and no. So it’s the, the, the time management piece is super important. Being aligned with our values. Self-Awareness, I guess. I mean to say like what is it that you wanna honor today?

Be Better than Busy by Working in Sprints Instead of MarathonsMaureen Falvey: What works for you and what doesn’t? And so looking at time plans, designs, priorities, recovery is super important. So tell Ben Shahar says the problem’s, not that we’re working too hard, is that we’re not recovering enough. So we definitely wanna put time in there for that. We’re busy when we’re not recovering. If you’re constantly on, there isn’t a chance for us to nurture and restore. We’re not, the way we’re working is kind of broken, right? It’s a holdover from the industrial revolution of like four. It’s, I wish it were 40 hour. I know for many of us it’s, it’s far more. But the suggestion to be better than busy is to work like an athlete trains in sprints and bursts. So you go for 90 minutes hard, right? Master something, go for it. And then you recover. They suggest for 20 or 30 minutes, even if you don’t have that, sometimes three deep breaths, but the recovery has you better than busy. But the internal stuff can be a little harder.

Jenn DeWall: I’m definitely thinking of all the internal stuff that I have right now,

Maureen Falvey: , right? You have to know your worth in order to cut, don’t you? You have to know that you deserve to put your no’s and your yeses in the right place and have some detractors. Some people might not like that and that has to be okay. But what’s great is when you know what your values are and your priorities, when someone asks you to do something that’s in conflict with commitment, that’s important. You get to say, I’d love to, but I have a commitment. They don’t need to know what the commitment is. I don’t need any judgment around what that thing was. I have a commitment. And in doing so, interestingly enough, you increase your reputation with that person as someone who does what they say they’re gonna do next time. I have a commitment to you. You, you can bet I’m gonna keep it. But the internal stuff is harder. It is harder, right? It’s a lifelong journey of self-love and compassion and knowing we’re worth it.

Jenn DeWall: That’s, that is the hardest. I mean, I love talking about confidence probably because it’s something that still struggle with. Even though people would be like, oh, Jenn, she’s so extroverted. She’s naturally gotta be glowing with confidence. But on the other side of being better than busy, I find myself overscheduled because I never wanna let someone down. Mm-Hmm. I never want to say no to someone. I don’t want people to feel like I don’t care, I don’t want to jeopardize potential. But I would say business opportunities or opportunities for growth and maybe for a leader it might be feeling like if I say no, then they’re not gonna consider me for that promotion. And if I say no, then my team is gonna be mad at me. And I, I feel like I have that. And I, I feel like some of our listeners might also experience it that because it’s so easy to just say yes to everything, if you feel like it’s, you know, based on that external validation, like, I wanna make sure that you like me.

And we even just talked about that example prior, prior too, of what I’m going through of like, oh my gosh, I have to actually, now that I understand the scope of a project a lot differently, I have to go and have the difficult conversation. And this is one of the first times that I’m really gonna advocate for my worth because I can’t actually say yes to this with the in new information that I have. And sometimes that’s hard, right? I’m sure that there are some leaders that overcommit and they don’t realize the full scope of something. And then how do you come back from that? I mean, there’s so much there, Maureen!

Making a Commitment to YourselfMaureen Falvey: There’s so much there, right? But imagine this, so I we’re creatures of habit and that can be really bad, but it can be really good. And so if we designed a contract with ourselves that very clearly on a page said, what’s in and out of scope? What am I gonna say yes to? What am I gonna say no to? What do I wanna honor? Then I can, even if I’m feeling what do I call it, wonky or squishy inside or not super confident, I go back to the contract and the promise I made to myself, I will only say yes to projects that are in line with my worth, my compensation. Right? Right. So you say it and it becomes very easy. So then what you get to do, and I think this is kinda cool, is you can, you can feel, I don’t know, insecure and make the bold move anyway because it’s in your contract.

It’s the promise you made to yourself. And then in doing so, in advocating for ourself and putting our yeses and nos in the right place, the confidence gets stronger and it gets easier and easier to build that habit of saying no when it doesn’t serve us. There’s a exercise that I do. Marie Kondo just came up again in the New York Times last week. She’s so fantastic. But she wrote that book, the Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up. Yeah. And now she’s moved into– And so, and I love that she did this cuz I, I saw it was coming before I, years ago would say, let’s Marie Kondo our lives . And now she’s doing that meaning what, let’s say I asked you can you co-author a book with me, right? It’s gonna take 50 hours and I can’t pay you anything.

But blah, blah blah, blah. What doesn’t matter. The invitation is to hold the request. Just like she suggests we go into the closet and you hold a sweater and you say, does it bring me joy? And give yourself time to say, does this bring me joy? Is writing that book with Maureen aligned with my values? Is it in the contract I made to myself? Right? So where do I look to see? But we say yes so quickly that we don’t even know if we’ve dishonored ourselves. We just don’t even know. It’s just hardwire. Especially unfortunately oftentimes as women we were raised to please and to smile and to serve. And as my wonderful mother says, if you’re not full, you have nothing to give. It is a self-care is a win-win. Everybody wins when we slow down our yeses, everybody wins. When we, when we Marie Kondo that stuff.

Jenn DeWall: Yes. You cannot fill from an empty cup. Yeah. And, but I mean, I know that that’s still, cause I think people might be listening to this and say like, oh, well I know that, but they’re still not doing it and you know, they’re still not doing it. Which means that they still have, and I know that you, I know you’ve got a point of view of this. I know you do. How do you work with your clients and helping them overcome the fear of the consequence of the No? Like how do you work with them to say like, it’s okay. Yeah. If you know, like, cause I think part of it, the research says that most of us assume that people will think bad on us, but they actually won’t unless maybe there’s unhealthy relationships or lack of boundaries, or they’re not necessarily thinking about our best interest, but yet we’re still gonna operate on the fact that people will think less of us. Yeah. And we’re afraid of the consequences. Any tips on how you might, you know, guide a client that’s experiencing that fear of like, but I can’t, I know my values. I know it’s important to me. But I just can’t.

What Does a Good Day Look Like to You?Maureen Falvey: The first place we would start is building on the language you just used, what will people think of me? I wanna know what you think of you. The most important question is what do you, what are you most proud of? What does a good day look like for you? And the first question I want you to ask is, at the end of the day, am I proud of me? Right? And what do you actually, what is the benefit of having the whole world love you? Of pleasing all of these other people? So there was a book that was banned in my house, , that everyone loves. So sometimes people get upset when I say this, but the giving tree . And so we had four daughters in our house growing up. And if you remember the giving tree, there’s, it’s a relationship between a boy and a tree.

And the boy as he grows, continues to take more from the tree, builds a house with it. The, the whatever, and he gets a shade from the branches. And at the end of the book, the tree is a stump and the boy is now an old man and the tree says, what can I, what can I do for you now? And he tries to make itself big as it can, but it’s a stump. And the boy says, the old man says, I just wanna rest. And he sits down on the stump.

This infuriated my mother. She said, no daughter of mine will end up a stump. That story should ha the way love works is the tree would’ve flourished from the love from the boy and it would’ve had twice as many branches and twice as many leaves. So we’re not reading this book in this house. Now, someone since has rewritten that book, I think about a year or two years ago. So I love that with a different ending with the flourishing. So my mother was one step ahead, .

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I love that.

Maureen Falvey: But like in this service, if you end up with nothing, who wins in that? I work with a lot of people who are people pleasers and they end up burnt out. And now you can’t please anybody. So a lot of people who are like hospice workers and helping professions, therapists burn out a lot cuz they didn’t fill their cup. So I interrogate a little bit, what is that wanting that pleasing to come from other people that report card to come from others. What is that costing you? And can you live with it? Yeah. If it’s a year from now and you’re still guided by what other people think of you, how is that working for you?

What’s happening in your life? What is the ripple effect of that? And 99.999% of the time, they say, I can’t live with that. Yeah. It’s actually the greatest deathbed regret. People think it’s. I wish I had spent less time in the office. The number one deathbed regret is I wish I would’ve lived my life according to my expectations. Not everyone else’s expectation of me. How about that? Oh my gosh. So it’s, and then people say, great, but then that gremlin inside that tells us we’re garbage is still gonna rear its ugly head. So we make a plan for that. What are we gonna do when it says you’re not good enough? You shouldn’t do this. You should say yes. People won’t love you. Right? What do we do then? And because, right, that’s just our brain. I wanna look at it like that’s our brain trying to keep us safe. Can we be grateful for it? Why are we fighting against this? Say thank you. Thank you for trying to keep me safe. Thank you for helping me be aware of other people. I’m gonna do just, but I’m in charge. I’m gonna take just as much as I need. So I have a little story about that. Would you like to hear it,

Jenn DeWall: Yes. Absolutely.

Be Afraid— But Do It AnywayMaureen Falvey: We’re dealing with fear. So we’ve got some four little words of the busy and the fear. All right, so what do we do with this fear thing? The reality is it’s probably never going to go away. And I don’t necessarily want it to, like, what is on the other side of no fear, probably some recklessness, probably a lack of empathy, right? So our brain thinks like, it wants to make us say, we wanna get embarrassed. We don’t wanna fall into a hole or drink spoiled milk. So sometimes it’s actually quite helpful. But a friend of mine is a fear coach. That’s all she does. Jenn, is she coaches people around fear. And she, she was interviewing a bullfighter in Spain on the topic of fear. She happens to be Spanish. Whose father was gored to death in the ring.

Jenn DeWall: Wow.

Maureen Falvey: And she said, talk to us about fear. And he said, I don’t fight it. If I go into that ring and I have no fear, I’ll die. And if I go into that ring and I have too much fear, same thing. So I do the craziest thing. I just notice it. Sometimes I even talk to it. Hello, fear. I see you’re here to do your job. Thank you, thank you. I’m gonna take just as much as I need to go into that ring and do my job and say no thanks to the rest. Cause I just don’t need it. I just don’t need it. So one of my favorite things to put on a sticky note in front of beautiful humans is be scared and do it anyway. . Yeah. Go. If you can go back to the right, go back to the contract and the promise, I care less about how you feel. I always say to people, I didn’t ask you how you feel. I mean, I love you. I didn’t ask you how you feel. I asked you what you want. I asked you who you are. Be guided by that because you know, Ilia Capto, who’s the fastest runner in the world, he says, only the discipline ones in life are free. Otherwise, we’re swayed to our feelings and our moods and our, I don’t feel like it’s, I didn’t ask you how you feel. I asked you what you want. I asked you who you are.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. I love that. Mm-Hmm. , I feel like, again, that hits hard for me, right? Of like, just coming back to that fear and like, do it anyways. Like, advocate for yourself. Even if you’re afraid, you got to be the one. Because if you’re not your own cheerleader, who the heck is gonna stop in and say, no, no, no, Jenn, I’m sorry Jenn just made an agreement that actually does not align with her. Like, I don’t have an assistant or someone that will do that for me. And I have to learn to do that for myself. I’m saying, oh wait, wait, wait, wait. The, the excited Jenn got a little ahead of herself or maybe didn’t think about this. And I need to even give myself permission to come back and advocate for myself.

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How to Start Being Better Than BusyJenn DeWall: Okay, let’s dive into it. Thanks. I know that you have took some techniques on how to live your life to be better than busy. So let’s dive into those. What, so I know that you had talked about, you know, values. What, what’s the starting point? If we wanna live our lives better than easy. I love that. Like giving fear, you know, be afraid but do it anyway, I think that’s such a helpful, helpful quote. But where do you start to live your life more on purpose and better than busy?

Maureen Falvey: I think the first thing you need is an accountability partner. We’re not great at humans. It holding ourselves accountable, it feels really good when we do, I know we wanna do more of it, but we let ourselves off the hook or we fall prey to fear or I don’t know the moods that I mentioned before. So I think in accountability, I know accountable. That’s what I am as a coach. I’m your accountability partner. You’re gonna tell me what your goal is, what you want, and then we’re gonna make it happen. We’re gonna move anything that’s in the way, and we’re gonna put the plan together with such specificity that it can’t not happen.

So I would find an accountability partner or a coach, someone who cares about you deeply, to put that plan together so that you don’t let yourself off the hook. So that’s the first thing I would say. And I, some of it we’ve mentioned, start with the outer stuff cuz it’s a tiny bit easier, right? Just block into look at your 168 hours, right? For, for actually, you know, where you could start. I love, so when we ask people how they’re doing and they say busy plan for a different answer, a starting point is, how are you Jenn?

Jenn DeWall: I am great today. I’m feeling happy. I’m busy.

Maureen Falvey: Right now, by the way, just neuroscience your, your insights just right. You just got a little dopamine hit. So we, so language matters, neurolinguistics programming, this stuff matters. So what is a, what is an answer that you, so we’re practicing this on my team right now at Strong Training and Coaching. What? Because we’re all busy, we don’t let ourselves use that word. I’m really excited. I’ve got a wonderful full plate. Oh, I have so many challenges ahead today. Can’t wait to jump into them. Right? So what is a better answer? We can’t know what to say yes and no to until again. First step is what are my values, right? It was an example would be freedom. An example would be creativity, collaboration, prestige could be one. So my, my strongest value is freedom. So it helps me figure out what to say yes and no to. Cuz if something is gonna conflict with my ability to feel free to design my day, I don’t like that. Right? And so I already am like someone asked me for something and I think about my values, right? Someone ask me for something and I think about my priorities. If I don’t have somewhere listed out what my greatest priority is for the day, how would I know whether I can or can’t do this thing for someone,

Jenn DeWall: Right!

Don’t Live Your Life AccidentallyMaureen Falvey: I’m living accidentally when I’m just saying yes to stuff just keeps coming in because I don’t have a plan, I don’t have. So we’ve gotta have that in and out of scope. What am I gonna say yes to? You can do it overall for your life. Do it every day, beginning of the day. What do I want? What’s my most important priority? What am I gonna say yes to? What am I gonna say no to? How will I hold myself accountable? Oh that’s right. I told Jenn I wasn’t gonna do that or I was gonna do this. Right? So we get real specific and granular on some of that. We pop it in the calendar, we move things around. We may need to enroll some people in our plan of being better than busy. So we train people how to use our time, don’t we?

Right? Somebody, I can’t believe this is still happening, but I work with a lot of business leaders who will say, God, I’m constantly double and triple booked. What? . So there may be some people you need to enroll in your new plan, which is I noticed you have a habit of double booking me. Right? The consequence of that is that I cannot be fully present when you or anyone else needs me and my work suffers and therefore the company will fall apart and loses money. La la la. So let people know the consequence, they aren’t just bad people, right? But why you’re saying no. So going forward, if you see a block in my calendar, you are welcome to call me. I’ll see if I, if yours is a greater need, but I’m busy, I have a commitment. So there may be some people you need to re-enroll in your new plan to be better than busy because you’ve trained some people just take your, to take your time when they want it.

Jenn DeWall: And I think a lot of organizations, at least I heard from it and I was more surprised hearing from some leaders talking about how I am busy on my calendar. Yet people keep scheduling meetings over that and you know, common sense would say if you see that someone is busy, then they’re busy. But yet I think you’re right. People have, organizations have trained to not necessarily even respect calendars even when they have those times blocked out. And so, coming back to having an establishing group norms, if someone is busy, they’re busy and not doing that. And it’s, it’s interesting because I saw this even with my husband and I were traveling. He had the day off and someone looked at his calendar, saw that he had a day off and they were like, but can you still just can you just still like jump on later?

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. And it’s, I I just, what do we have to do? Because there’s this piece where we’ve all been conditioned to be available at any point in time. And so it’s treated this, or I guess it’s created this expectation that we all have to be turned on all the time and mental health is suffering. We’ve, we’re seeing this everywhere, but yet who is responsible for that? Is it our own advocacy of starting to push back? Is it integrating that and within our executive leadership team so they can push down? Like, you know, we all have to take accountability for the fact that things aren’t right right now and we’re not respecting people’s time. Yeah. Because there’s that flip side of you can do all the things, but then tthere has to be a culture of respecting that as well. Yeah. Like where it’s not just on you to be like, Hey, please can I focus on what I committed to to do a great job? Like you’ve gotta respect that. I wanna do a good job.

Maureen Falvey: Yeah.

Jenn DeWall: We’re gonna have time off .

The Way We Work is BrokenMaureen Falvey: Yeah. The, the way, so this will be our next book that we do, Jenn, but the way we work is broken. It is severely broken. Shoving more into the day the speed at which we work, the lack of any recovery whatsoever. The way that it’s perceived as a weakness when we need a break, it’s just so broken. That is called recovery, right? This go speak to any Olympic athlete. They build recovery into their training sessions. Of course they do. Why aren’t we doing the same with work with our brain, with our sleep, with our rest? Ariana Huffington, right? She has a whole organization called Thrive now because she woke up in a pool of her own blood from passing out from sheer exhaustion. And she woke up. I hope it doesn’t take that for us to wake up. Oftentimes, unfortunately, I see that it does.

What did you call it– life quakes–before something interrupts our life in illness or a sadness or a grief or a loss and we say I’m gonna do things differently. Now what if you started now without some horrible provocation , right? What if you started this business of life and living it well, according to your values and your priorities now? And guess what? Everybody wins when you do that. Everybody wins. And so I love that you brought in the corporation and the culture and I’ll, I’ll, I will speak to that. But the first thing is, first of all, there may be a better word to put in the calendar than busy. Maybe commitment is better. I don’t want any judgment about it. I just want the word in there. I am a committed person to whatever I’m doing. That’s none of your business during this hour. , right?

Jenn DeWall: I love that. I love that. Yeah. Committed.

Maureen Falvey: I’m committed during this time. Yeah. I’m committed. And so as far as the the organization and the culture I don’t know that we have to worry too much about hierarchy. I had a boss who was 24 at one point and she, we were working on something in her office and our boss came in and he said Melissa, I need you to do this thing. I don’t remember what it was. And she said, I’d love to, but I am committed to the priority you gave me yesterday. So what do you want me to do with this one? So she didn’t walk away saying, Ooh, the boss asked me to do this. I’ll just shove it all in and work 16 hours. She said, what do you want me to do with this other thing? ? I thought that was so cool. We can also, when we’re practicing honoring our commitments and it’s going well, knock, knock, knock on boss person’s door or zoom.

Hey, I’ve been trying something different. I’m working like an athlete trains. It’s been amazing. I’ve never been so energized. I’m sure you’ve noticed too, I’ve gotten twice as much done in fewer hours. La la la la la. What do you think would need to be true for more of us to do that? Is this something I could speak to the company about? What are your best practices? So you’re saying it respectfully, right? I’m just noticing I did this thing. You’re not making the person wrong, but we can build a better culture. One choice and one conversation at a time. Don’t give up. We’re broken. And because we’re not leading our life by design, the whole reason I do this work is I want people to live and work on purpose instead of by accident. Right? Is that we’re just allowing everything to keep happening accidentally. Right. Start the process right now of one inspired action and then PR it and tell everybody what worked.

Jenn DeWall: I love That.

Be Better than Busy One Choice and One Conversation at a TimeMaureen Falvey: And build it. One choice and one conversation at a time.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. One small step in having that. But also, I mean I think people respect your boundaries when you have them. I think sometimes people are like, I wish I did that. Yeah. So maybe even taking that consideration that someone else is likely struggling with it too. And they are admiring you for your boundaries and you’re giving them permission and power to live their life with intention and purpose. I know that every time someone does that for me, my two best friends are the best people at setting boundaries. They do not care if it is not for them. They’re not doing it. I am terrible cause I have a people pleaser and I feel like those two are my counsels all the time. Like Jenn, who cares? Like, I would not do that. Like don’t do that. That sounds like it doesn’t bring you joy, it doesn’t make you happy. They might be sad, but who cares? And you know, understanding that I appreciate my friends that have boundaries so much more because they’re like showing me and they’re giving courage over time to say, wait, I’m not gonna do that. Why am I doing this? Or I just sit there envious of them because they made that conscious choice not to do something that I’m at that I don’t wanna be at that I’m like, gosh, why did I not do that? Yeah,

Maureen Falvey: You walk away so someone’s upset, okay, you don’t, maybe you don’t like me, right? I like me .

Jenn DeWall: Yes. And that’s the hardest lesson in life. I think we’re just so conditioned to like, because of going back to how we started with that belonging and wanting to feel connected mm-hmm. and wanting to be liked that it’s so easy. And I do this all the time. I work on confidence every day with people and I still struggle with confidence. It is never going to be this point of mastery because so long as I’m growing and dying, I’m going to be expanding and I’m gonna be a new territory and I’m gonna have to work through my stuff again. Yeah. But you know, living that life on purpose and just continuing to like advocate for yourself, like I wholeheartedly agree with you Maureen, of like li helping empowering people to realize that because we have one special gift and, and one special gift of life. And if people want it now, again, I was 25 when my dad had a life altering stroke that put him in a nursing home at 54 and my mom had a mental breakdown that put her outta the workforce out of I would say even reality. Mm-Hmm. At 54. And I sat there as a 25 year old being like, wow, if I have 30 good years left before my health is gone, what do I wanna do? And too often again, it’s that tragedy that people that makes people move when we all have the choice every single day to be moving in that direction to maximize our happiness.

Maureen Falvey: That’s so great. Like when, when is it a good time to wake up?

Jenn DeWall: Right now!

Maureen Falvey: When do you wanna start? You know, it sounds very Oprah-like when do you wanna start the rest of your life and what is actually in the way? Because the good news is– it’s you! Which means you can change it, right? It means you can change it. Yay. What a wonderful epiphany.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah. You don’t need a million dollars. You don’t need like blank. You can actually just shift it yourself with your mindset in your choices and everything that Maureen has been saying, getting in touch with your values and what’s important to you in prioritizing your life, in accordance with your values and what’s important to you and who you want to be and what brings you joy. Maureen, I just have loved this conversation, but I want to give you an opportunity to help our audience find how they can get in touch with you. So how can they connect with you if they wanted to learn more about you, the book that you co-wrote, with a chapter about the 25th Hour or even invest in your services, how can they get to know more about you?

Where to Find More from Maureen FalveyMaureen Falvey: Yeah, so as I mentioned upfront, thank you for asking, I’m the lead coach and trainer at Strong Training and Coaching, and we love what we do, and we’re always looking for opportunities to do more of it. Most of us have, well, all of us have had at least 20 years of leadership experience. We’re coaches, and we’re trainers. So we can pull, if we’re in a coaching session, we can pull the training module off the shelf to move you through that block even more quickly. And the coaching serves the training as well. So it’s at markstrongcoaching.com. The book that you mentioned as well, it’s okay, I co-authored it with some of the coolest people but it’s called Peak Performance Mindset Tools for Entrepreneurs by Eric Seversen and 24 Other world-class experts in their fields. And there’s some really good stuff in there.

So my chapter is on the 25th hour, Better Than Busy. So you’re welcome to look for that. It’s a quick, what would it take you time-wise, putting your calendar 15 minutes to read that chapter all around having a better answer than busy. Right? So MarkStrongCoaching.com. We are here for you. If I can serve as your accountability partner, I would love that. And I am just over here wishing all, all of you all the joy that comes from being in charge of your day, your week, your month, your year, your life through your time, your choices, your values, your priorities, and your plan.

Jenn DeWall: Yes, I love that. And this is gonna be airing right at the start of 2023. So I hope that to all of our audience that you take this message today and use it as motivation, as just, you know, just that extra push that you need to really create and live your life by design this year. Maureen, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a great conversation, and I’m so grateful to have had you.

Maureen Falvey: It’s my pleasure, Jenn. So wonderful to have this time together.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I hope that you reflected in your thinking on how you can create and design a different life to be better than busy. Now, as Maureen shared with us, if you want to connect with her, you can head on over to markstrongcoaching.com to find additional information about Maureen as well as additional resources. And if you know someone that could benefit from hearing this podcast episode because maybe they’re suffering from chronic busyness, share this with them. And, of course, don’t forget to leave us a review on your favorite podcast streaming platform. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

The post How to Be Better Than Busy with Executive Coach, Maureen Falvey appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Get Better at Small Talk to Connect in a Hybrid WorldHi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and we are wrapping up 2022 by talking about the fine art of small talk. We are doing a minisode today. This will be our new podcast episode of 2022, and we’ll bring you all new content in 2023. I will be talking about small talk, something I imagine many of you will be doing ALOT over the next few weeks.

But before we get started, I want to remind you that Crestcom offers a complimentary two-hour leadership skills workshop. If you or your team are thinking about how you want to approach 2023 to ensure that you are performing at your best and that you’re collaborating to the best of your abilities, head on over to Crestcom.com. We would love to know more about your organization and how we can help develop your leaders.

And also, if you don’t know, I just want to remind you that Crestcom also does free monthly webinars. They are complimentary and open to the public, all designed to give you the necessary skills that you can use immediately to be successful. Our next webinar is coming up on Thursday, January 26th, and we’ll discuss starting the new year with a growth mindset. So I hope you’re able to attend!

Why is Small Talk Necessary?But now let’s get into the show. We’re talking about the art of small talk and how to connect in a hybrid world. And many of us might struggle with small talk. We might struggle because we feel like it’s so surface-level. Oh my gosh, I don’t know why I have to do this. There are a lot of grievances that people have around small talk. They might feel like it’s just a waste of time. They might feel like people don’t really have a meaningful connection, which is understandable. We need to be strategic about small talk if we actually want to have an impact with it.

So it’s natural to have those feelings. But for the podcast, we’re gonna talk about some of the benefits of small talk and how to navigate small talk. But before we get into it, let’s talk about what small talk is. And this is from “The Problem of Meaning in Primitive Languages” by Bronislaw Malinowski. And this was written in 1923, studying the benefits of small talk. And here, it was defined as: Small talk— A great deal of talk does not serve any purpose of communicating ideas but instead serves to establish bonds, a personal union. So for those that might be thinking, Ugh, small talk is so frustrating. It’s a waste of time! I want to reframe that for you, to think about how you can use small talk to deepen connections and to build relationships because that’s really its purpose. But that also requires us to approach small talk in a different way.

Small Talk is the Foundation of TrustAnd here’s another consideration, and this is from the Career Contessa. Think of small talk like bricks. One or two bricks don’t make much, but if you gather 10 bricks or 20 bricks and you start to establish a foundation, that’s when small talk serves as the foundation of building trust. So I know that initially, it might seem again that, oh, this is such a waste of time, but it’s something that we want to think of the long-term gain for maybe that short-term pain. And understanding that small talk is the starting point for a deeper connection. So I’m going to share with you some tips because as I was researching this, this is actually content that we used for a webinar that we offered in November on this. So again, I can’t recommend it enough— come to our webinars. We would love to have you. They’re open to the public.

But in my research looking at small talk and the art of small talk, one of the books that I picked up and read was The Fine Art of Small Talk. And this was written by Debra Fine. She is a speaker, and she works with individuals around the world on how to improve their art of small talk. And here within that book, and I would definitely recommend getting it, the book again is The Fine Art of Small Talk by Debra Fine, but she provides a worksheet, and I’m going to review or read a few different questions for you to consider and reflect on because we want to understand how often are you in situations that require small talk and what is typically your response.

Some Questions to Ask YourselfSo here are some questions for your consideration. And the full winning at small talk worksheet is available in her book. So one of the questions that you can consider is, “I have joined or participated in at least one club or group activity to meet new people this year.” Is that true for you? Do you find yourself maybe avoiding some of those things? Another statement, “in the past year, I’ve used my contacts to help at least two people get a job, date, connect with new clients or customers, or provide information for networking purposes.” Have you done that? Made a connection? Small talk is a way that we can build bridges to broaden and expand our network. Here are another few, but I would recommend getting her book and walking through this so you can reflect maybe where your areas of opportunity are or what your starting points are. I’ll give you one final reflection piece to ask yourself. When someone asks me what’s new, instead of saying, “Not much,” I often talk about something exciting in my life.

Have an Intentional Strategy to Get Better at Small TalkAre you one of the people that doesn’t necessarily talk or give much of a response, which can sometimes be the obstacle or barrier that we have to overcome with small talk? So leading into it, what are some of the small talk mistakes that people might make? And these are honest mistakes, but we want to think about small talk as an intentional strategy. And one of the mistakes that people make is when we ask the individual with whom we’re in conversation yes or no questions. When we ask the yes or no, do you like this? Have you been there before? Have you been here before? It doesn’t necessarily give you an opportunity to hear more, especially if that person doesn’t feel comfortable sharing more.

And so asking them open-ended questions such as, what do you like about coming to the events? What do you like about working here? That can be a better way to get more information from someone and to actually build on a foundation of that conversation. So one mistake to avoid is asking closed-ended questions because that will only elicit a one-word yes or no response.

Other small talk mistakes that people make is there’s no self-disclosure or talking or on the flip side. So you’re either saying too little, or you’re saying too much. Now the tip here with small talk is we want it to be this gradual self-disclosure where I might respond and answer a question, but then you are going to respond and answer a question. Or if you are the individual that’s running and managing that conversation, you’ll ask the question, but then you’ll also answer it in turn. When you have no self-disclosure, you’re not building trust, and that other person isn’t getting to know more about you.

On the flip side, if you’re only talking about yourself, someone might be thinking, holy cow, what’s my exit strategy? How do I get outta here? They don’t even care about me. And another small talk mistake that people make is being critical instead of curious. Let’s say that someone talks about their favorite restaurant or talks about a challenge that they have in the industry. You might be listening to learn, or you might be listening to judge based on your past experience. And if we’re critical, especially in this foundational opening conversation, it can be a turnoff for people, which might make them reluctant to want to talk and engage with you.

Avoid “Pitch-Slapping” in a ConversationAnother small talk mistake is interrupting people. This is a common mistake for extroverts. We have to slow down and allow people to finish their thoughts instead of assuming what they’re going to say. Another is “pitch-slapping,” also known as “getting networked on” by someone.

You go into that networking event, and you find that one person that’s only there to talk to you because they want to sell you. If you are that person, be mindful that you’re not building trust, you’re actually eroding it because they’d see you as someone that doesn’t necessarily care about them. You just care about yourself and your objectives. So be sure to ask some of those questions that you might think are actually fufu so you can deepen the level of trust, and then you could pursue and go into talking about what it is you do or potentially asking for a sale. And going into other small talk mistakes, avoid talking about controversial topics, those can be something that can instantly shut a conversation down.

Be Willing to Take the Lead to Get Better at Small TalkOr how about not having anything to say or waiting for someone else to take the lead? Sometimes we don’t wanna be the one that is being vulnerable or owns the conversation, but when we think about what’s in a conversation, you know, typically what we’re doing in a conversation is we’re either exchanging information with someone, we might be exchanging power to try to influence someone to our point of view, or it might be transformational. We’re exchanging it. We’re exchanging energy. We’re just getting to know one another. But know that on the basic. And if you took our webinar, what you would see as a graphic of understanding that with all the conversational levels that I just talked about, that every level as we engage more and more or we add more bricks, going back to that career Contessa quote, we’re building trust. But initially, when we’re starting that conversation, it’s low trust for both people. So we might be a little skeptical of what you have to say. We might resist what you’re trying to say.

But as we’ve exchanged and done that gradual self-disclosure and gotten to know more about each other, then we’re building a conditional trust. And again, over time, as we’re listening and learning and going more, that’s when we can get to that high level of trust. So the starting point to be effective at small talk and is from Debra Fine’s book, the Fine Art of Small Talk, and I love this tip. There are two things that you can do to improve small talk. The first is to give yourself permission to take the risk of starting the conversation. Now that conversation or risk might be with a new employee in your organization. It might be with a new person that you’ve never met in a social setting. It might be at a networking event, but either way, give yourself permission to just take the risk and start the conversation. Too often, many of us avoid it because we might be uncomfortable. We tell ourselves we don’t have anything to say.

Reframing How You View Small TalkAnd instead of doing that, look for the reframe of saying, I’m just going to start this conversation and see what happens. And the second thing that you can do to improve small talk then assumes the burden of the conversation. Meaning if you notice lulls if you notice that someone maybe isn’t engaging, empower yourself to be more direct in your questions. How are you? What would you like to do? So on and so forth. So the two things to improve small talk is to start by giving yourself permission to take the risk to start the conversation. And then, second, give yourself the power to assume the burden of the conversation. This means that you also want to have a preparation list in some capacity of what types of questions you might ask.

And know that those questions are likely going to be different in a networking event versus at work versus outside work at a social event. But opportunities to practice that if you’re just looking to maybe improve it in a low stakes way, you could go and practice having basic conversations at the grocery store, maybe with the individual that’s checking you out or assisting you in finding a product. You could do the same at the mall or when you’re running errands, but look for opportunities to practice. That way, you’ll feel more confident and comfortable when you actually have a higher stakes conversation where you want to get to know that person and deepen the relationship and potentially partner, work with, or befriend them— whatever the outcome or objective is.

The Forgotten Name Problem…Here’s a quick public service announcement, and I think this is great. This is again from Debra Fine’s book, um, the Fine Art of Small Talk. One of the things that she talks about is an obstacle that many of us have. If we find ourselves in a small talk situation, we might also notice that they’ve introduced themselves to us, but we’ve forgotten their name. And instead of listening to them going through your head and not actually listening because all you’re trying to do is recall their name, give yourself permission to just ask the name. What she would say is don’t wait for divine intervention or for someone to come up and be like, Hey Susie, hi Tachi, hi, whatever. We just have to ask, when you just take that power again, assume the burden, give yourself the power to take that risk and ask for the name again. That’s better than not listening to what they’re saying because you’re trying to recall it.

So that is one public service announcement. It’s totally okay. A lot of people forget names, especially at events where we’re meeting so many people. So give yourself permission to just ask in case you’ve missed it.

Dear Extroverts, Take a Breath and Listen MoreAnd finally, I wanna give some tips if you are an introvert versus an extrovert because we need to approach it maybe in a different way. So my message for the extra extroverts would be to make sure that you’re taking a breath while you’re listening. Extroverts can sometimes come on a little too strong, which can be offsetting or off-putting for introverts or people that are maybe new or less familiar with small talk. And so make sure to breathe. You don’t wanna feel like you’re pushing all the information at them. Give yourself permission to ask questions, to slow it down. When you can ask those open-ended questions, you’re actually giving yourself permission to take a break and focus on that individual.

Another message for extroverts is to avoid oversharing. Know that if we’re just starting out in small talk, we are developing trust. Trust is not necessarily established, but sometimes a mistake that extroverts can make is by sharing too much when the trust isn’t established. And finally, make sure that you don’t assume what another person is going to say. This can lead extroverts into interrupting or maybe minimalizing what someone says, making them feel that you weren’t listening to them and you didn’t really care what you had to say. Or sometimes they might get the perception that you’re a one-upper or you’re just trying to show how great you are. And finally, the last message for extroverts is to stick with the conversation. Extroverts likely have a very easy time going from one topic to the next, but for people that may not, again, have that same experience or desire, it’s best to stick with that conversation and deepen it and just ask a deeper level of questions as you progress.

Introverts Can Get Better at Small Talk TooAnd now, let’s go into introverts. So what you can do to feel more confident with small talk and feel like you are actually getting the benefit from it is to start by preparing conversational questions. What are potential go-to questions that you could have in a social setting, in a professional work setting, at a networking event, or at a family event? Create a list for each of those and start to think of potential questions that you might ask, but make sure that you’re also checking your mindset and your attitude. If you feel that small talk is a waste of time and it’s pointless, the individual whom you’re engaging in a conversation with will likely perceive that to be true. And so they’ll be less open to actually talking and deepening a relationship with you. So make sure that you’re reframing your opportunities for small talk as, Hey, this is a great chance to get to know more about them.

We can see how we can partner together. Hey, this is a great chance to just, you know, see it. We have more in common than I ever realized. Choose the right mindset before going into the event. Otherwise, the individuals that you’re in conversation with will likely notice that you’re not that into the conversation. And just remember that curiosity is key as you think about those questions. Deepening it. Hey, what do you like to do for fun? And if they say, oh, I love playing volleyball, or I love playing football, you might say, oh, what do you like about those sports? Have you ever played those sports?

So deepen the conversation by being curious. And here’s a quick PSA. Be a little bit cautious when you use the conversational question, what do you do for work? You might run into a situation where someone might be unemployed or recently laid off or fired, and so you’re going to bring them into the pain of that situation.

So that’s one reason you might want to avoid that question. The second reason is you might want to avoid feelings of inferiority that can be created when you ask someone what they do. For example, if I am maybe a high-performing and successful business person and I’m talking to someone that maybe doesn’t have confidence in their career and what they do or feels a little less-than when I ask them what they do, then they might start to get into their head and feel like I’m not good enough to have this conversation. These people are way smarter than me. They are all of these things. So instead of asking the question, what do you do? You might say, what industry do you work in? What intrigues you about that industry?

Small Talk Only Works if You Also ListenAnd now tips for the listener because that’s often the piece that we forget. We think about that initial approach of taking the risk and the conversation, assuming the burden of the conversation and what we can do to get our information to that other person in the conversation.

But what do you do when you are the listener? Well, be present. Make sure that you’re maintaining good eye contact, smile, and of course, be mindful of any cultural norms that exist in where you live. If you are in France, if you are in the UK, if you are in Morocco, these might have different cultural norms of what’s appropriate, but the non-verbal cues that you use are essential to the individual that is speaking because that lets them know that you’re in tune and connected with their message. And

Another tip for the listener, ask them a question. Always come up with a great follow-up question about the information that they shared. And you can also validate their responses. You can say, oh, what I heard you say is that you really enjoy volleyball and you love playing it with a team. Great, me too. And so just reiterating or what we would call mirroring, repeating back what someone had said to them to say, am I getting this right?

For Better Small Talk, Mind Your Body LanguageAnd also, keep an open posture! Knowing that almost 60% of our communication is non-verbal, it’s very important to pay attention to the posture and those non-verbal cues that you’re using because sometimes it might show to someone that, again, you don’t care what they have to say. An example might be, and many of you likely have experienced this, think about if you’ve ever had a time when you were in a conversation with someone, and then they picked up their phone, or they looked at their watch to see what time it is. If I’m speaking and you do those things, I am going to assume that you don’t care what I have to say. Now, whether or not that’s true, that’s the information that I am getting from your nonverbal cues. So be very mindful of the information that you’re saying without words. Now, small talk tips, right?

Have a Go-To Conversation ListThink about your own conversation list. And this is more for building your own conversational list. I want you to just think about what are the topics that you feel comfortable with or you actually want to talk about. Maybe you have a particular hobby like making music or sewing or playing sports, whatever that might be. What are the topics that you feel comfortable with and actually want to talk about? Write down those topics. So then there are things that you can ask, and you can begin by just writing down a list of your interest. It might be sports books or podcasts, hobbies, TV shows or movies, whatever that might be. But if you can build a conversational list of the topics or general interests that you have, then you can use that to say, Hey, I’ve been listening to this podcast, the Leadership Habit, lately. What do you listen to for your own personal development? Are there any personal development topics that you think I should listen to? That’s how that might go.

Remember to Practice Good F.O.R.M.Now, in Debra Fine’s book, the Fine Art Small Talk, she also gives an acronym of how to think about structuring or building that conversational list. And what she talks about is, are questions that you can ask typically follow the acronym of Form F O R M. The F in Form is about family. Hey, tell me about your family. Who’s your favorite member? Who’s, you know, how many children do you have? Are you married? Are you single? Now again, I would offer a pause to this, and that’s only from my own personal experience. I think it’s a great conversation. But no, there might be someone, just as I had an experience with an Uber driver where he shared with us that he actually doesn’t have any living family members left.

And so know that you might run into something like that. And that’s totally normal. That is the life of of some people, and we want to be mindful and sensitive to that. So if you do get a response like that, you can also say, I am so sorry to hear that. Um, you know, I, I like to ask this question because it’s typically what lights people up, but I can understand where maybe this isn’t the question that you would want to answer. It’s totally okay to switch directions.

The O in FORM stands for occupation. What industry are you in? How long have you worked in it? What industries have you ever worked in? You could even ask questions such as, what was the best job that you ever had? What was the worst job that you ever had? I can tell you my worst job was as a newspaper delivery girl, and I had a bike. And when I was delivering Sunday papers, that was extremely heavy and I would often tip over.

The R in FORM is for Recreation. What do you like to do outside of work? What do you like to do for fun? And then of course, miscellaneous, maybe something that supports the fam family, occupation, and recreation, or maybe something completely different. That goes back to one of the conversational topics that you previously identified. The M is for miscellaneous topics, which could be books, movies, trivia, what ever you like.

So just remember that, you know, when we’re thinking about small talk, whether you’re doing this at the holiday table or at a networking event, every single person is nervous to some extent. And why is that? Because we don’t wanna be judged. We want to be liked, and we want to be safe. And when we go into these small talk conversations, we can feel that this is really vulnerable. What if they think that what I say is stupid, or they don’t like me or they don’t like my vibe, whatever that might be? Know that all of us have a little bit of head trash that’s making small talk seem a little bit scarier over than what it actually is, so know that it’s nervous.

Keep Building Your Small Talk MusclesBut in closing, I want you to keep in mind how you can build that conversational muscle. So I want you to create and build your conversational checklist. Create three to five questions that might be your go-to, questions that you ask. And you can always, for advice, start a conversation with a statement or an observation. If you’re meeting at a networking event, for example, oh, I love these events. What’s your favorite event that you’ve ever attended? Or you could talk about the weather, but typically people don’t necessarily want to talk about the weather right now. So you could say the weather is perfect outside, but what’s your favorite season? Now, there’s one thing that I would actually add to this, and it kind of goes back to the what do you do for a living? Talking about the basic topics such as, oh, what’s the weather like by you aren’t necessarily responses that elicit you to or that prompt you to provide a high level of information.

Yeah, it’s sunny. Cool. We’re not really deepening the connection there. And so that’s where a question such as, the weather is perfect outside right now, but what’s your favorite season is actually going to allow for a deeper conversation. So be mindful of typical questions that you likely hate answering because you feel like you do it all the time. Those might be what do you do for a living? Where do you work? What’s the weather like?

Avoid some of those because many of us are asked those repeatedly and we have very scripted responses, which causes us to kind of go into autopilot in the conversation and not be as engaged. And finally, tips for work and business events. Of course, know your audience of what’s appropriate to talk about and inappropriate to talk about. Maintain great eye contact, and smile. And when you’re going to that event for the first time and thinking about where do you start?

Find the person that seems approachable. Look for body language. Are they open? Do they seem engaging? And make sure that you give your name and also ask theirs. Sometimes we just walk up and start a conversation without introducing ourselves.

Questions to Start a Conversation Anytime, AnywhereAnd questions that you can ask at business and work events. How did you get started in your career? And know that these are partially from Debra Fine’s book The Fine Art of Small Talk. How did you get started in your career? What trends have you noticed in your field? What projects are you working on right now? What does a typical workday look like for you? What professional organizations or associations are you a member of? What books or podcasts have you read or listened to lately? If you’re going to a social event, you might ask, what’s the highlight of your week so far?

What’s your favorite movie? Why? What is something you own that you wish you had never purchased? Now, this is a question that I have asked multiple times, and it typically elicits a fun and playful response. It allows for us to be a little bit self-deprecating, which can actually build trust between the person we’re speaking with and us. So if I was to answer that question, I might say, as much as I hate saying this because I wish I used it more, it’s my road bike. It has been in my garage, hung up for about two years, and it is a constant reminder that I actually bought that, bought all of the coinciding and extra bike apparel to go with it, the shorts, the jersey, and I never used it. I should have just bought that or bought something else, and saved that money. But typically, many of you have examples of something that you own that you thought you had to have, and now you’re like, why did I buy that?

And I got this, this question from a different individual. And his example was a fancy watch that he bought that he thought he really needed, but now it’s just a reminder that he wasted a bunch of money on something that he doesn’t need. So it’s a fun, playful question. Another thing, what’s your favorite thing about where you live? Why? Cats or dogs? How do you know blank?

And general icebreakers. You could think, what’s one thing that you want to own and why? These might be questions that you can ask in a group setting to your team. Tell me about one of your favorite relatives. What do you think is the perfect age? Why? What’s your favorite holiday? What was the first car that you drove? Who were your idols as kids? One of my favorite questions is, what is your favorite karaoke song? And another quick question that I like to ask is, what was one activity that you really enjoyed doing in high school?

This allows us to get into our more childlike experience and it can allow us to learn more and just get a little bit deeper into the conversation without asking them to maybe explain their whole life story. When I asked this one of my favorite questions or one of my favorite responses that I totally was surprised by, because this individual was very tough and direct and he was a lovely person to work with. But when I asked him, what was your favorite activity in high school? He said, oh, I was part of the prom decorating committee. I was so surprised by his response and it just brought about a laugh by all of us because none of us that had known him and worked professionally with him would’ve ever guessed that that actually would’ve been an interest. So that’s my personal one that I love to ask.

How to End a ConversationNow in closing, I just want you to think about how you can start a conversation. Where are these opportunities that you can practice? And maybe a goal for yourself is to choose three new people a week to just strike up a conversation. Remember, it doesn’t have to be long. It could be a conversation with someone as you’re checking out your groceries. And in closing, of course, we know just as things have to end, sometimes the conversation needs to end. So here are some conversation exit lines to end your conversations on a positive note. One, you might discuss feature plans. Hey, this was so great. Maybe we can get together again to talk more about this. Make a plan to connect later and create a time constraint. If you find that you add that you either need to go because of a natural time constraint, or you feel like maybe that individual brought up inappropriate subjects and you just want to make sure that you’re getting out of there, you can put a time constraint on it.

For example, I have to go, I have to go in a few minutes, but I would love to hear one more story or one more thing before I go. When we’re signaling to them that we’re unlimited time, then it makes it easier for us to say, okay, well I have to go. And then you can take your time away. And how do you know when to end a conversation? Well, it’s when you’re bored or they look bored or when you run out of things to say. That’s why it’s important to have that conversational list when you need a break. This is especially true for introverts, knowing that these conversations can typically drain your energy. Give yourself permission to take breaks, or if they brought up controversial or inappropriate topics, do not keep yourself hostage in a situation where it’s uncomfortable. Give yourself permission to say, hi, I actually have to step outside and you know, take this call or send this note.

And an another appropriate time to end a conversation is when they’re rude or judgmental. You do not need to engage in a conversation where someone is offensive, so please give yourself the power to be able to exit those strategies so you don’t have to tolerate what might be very inappropriate, rude, or controversial conversations. So thank you so much for joining our many. So this month I hope you got many tips that can help you in the coming month as maybe many of you are out to go to more holiday events or family events or work events. And just know that the art of conversation is the art of hearing as well as being heard. And you can make friends, more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you.

So if you want to have a genuine conversation and actually deepen the connection, practice that curiosity. Be genuinely interested in someone else.

Have a Great December— We’ll See You in 2023!Thank you so much for joining this week’s Minisode. We would love to see you next year. Feel free to check out our webinar. It’s January 26th, and we are gonna be talking about how to start the new year with a growth mindset. We have complimentary one-hour webinars offered every single month with the exception of December, and we would love to see you there.

And, of course, if you need help with your leadership development needs, head on over to crestcom.com. We offer a complimentary leadership skills workshop where we will come into your organization, either in person or virtually, and help you and your team develop a strategy to collaborate better, to communicate better, and just to overall create a place where everyone wants to work. I hope you have a great rest of your year. I’ll see you in 2023. Bye, everyone!

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Avoiding Financial Mistakes with Wealth Strategist Eunicia PeretOn this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down to talk about that topic that some of us avoid– finances. I sat down with Eunicia Peret to talk about how to avoid the financial mistakes that you don’t know that you’re making. And before you turn this off because you think, I don’t wanna talk about money, trust me, it was actually kind of uncomfortable at points when I had to actually take an honest look at myself and think, yeah, I am making some of these mistakes. But before we go into the show, let me tell you a little bit more about Eunicia.

Eunicia is an accomplished wealth strategist and business owner with over 15 years of experience in the financial services industry. Eunicia honed her expertise by delivering significant financial improvements to the bottom line, Fortune 500 companies and renowned global brands across multiple industries. Her passion is to help multi-six and seven-figure individuals optimize their wealth-creation efforts by empowering them to leverage wealth and creating strategies that go beyond 401ks, IRAs, and other typical savings accounts in order to minimize taxes, maximize growth, and increase income in retirement. I hope you enjoy this important conversation on how to avoid financial mistakes that you don’t know you’re making.

Full Transcript BelowJenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and joining me today is Eunicia Peret. She’s a wealth strategist. Eunicia, I’m so excited to talk to you. Our topic today, how to avoid the financial mistakes that you don’t know you’re making! Such an important topic, knowing that many of us, hey, we might be afraid to manage our money, or we just don’t know how to manage our money. And so we may not obviously, be aware of these mistakes and what could be setting us up for maybe more of a struggle in the long run just by making an adjustments for what we can do today to manage our money better so we can set ourselves up for success.

Because heck, you might be asking, what do money and leadership have in common? Well, money, Hey, we need that for our lifestyle. It impacts our stress, it impacts our quality of life. It impacts our worries. It impacts how we show up and solve problems at work. You might notice if you’re maybe more, I would say, loose with your money, that maybe you aren’t paying attention to some things in the same way as a leader, you might be a little bit more casual, and this is just another opportunity to add structure to something that you might already be doing. Or to add a new routine that will help set you up for long term success. So, Eunicia, thank you so much for joining us today.

Eunicia Peret: Jenn, it’s such a pleasure to be here with you and, and all of our listeners.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh. All right, so I always have to ask it. I love a good origin story. Eunicia, tell me about yourself. How did you come to be a wealth strategist? What did your journey look like?

Discovering Financial Blind SpotsEunicia Peret: Actually, it’s a very good question, especially for, for the folks that are listening to us. Whether you’re a rising leader or you are already an executive and, and you full rights. I, I used to be there. And one of the biggest things for me when we, my husband and I kind of took a step back and started looking at truly what our financial situation looked like, what we realized was that we were making too much money. We had been making too much money living the life, but frankly, when we were looking at our financial future, it wasn’t where we wanted it to be. And when we peel the covers back, what we realized was that the financial services as an industry is not necessarily suited for rising leaders, even for those that have already got into the multi six and seven figure income streams.

And the reason for that is oftentimes we don’t have the assets under management to bring to the table so that we get first dibs and we really get the red carpet treatment as we would all like. And so for, for me, it really was, I became a wealth strategist for two reasons. Number one, reason number one is I was a financial advisor, a strategy consultant for many, many years. I played in that industry. And my area of expertise was always in the finance function. So looking at what CFOs were doing and how CFOs were working in terms of growing the business, doing more with less, I start asking some of the same questions when again, it came to our personal situation.

So reason number two, when I started looking under the covers and realizing all of the blind spots and all of the loopholes that frankly we did not know existed, it was a big aha. And the deciding factor was, we need to do better. And other people need to avoid some of the mistakes that, frankly, I wish I could have avoided earlier on in life.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, it’s, I feel like money is just that topic, right? Everyone avoids it. I don’t wanna talk about it. I don’t wanna think about it. It’s just going to be there for me. And I know I at 40 this year, right, of thinking, where do we wanna be? We probably actually need to have a better grasp on where we would want to land 10, 20, 30 years instead of saying, we make really, you know, we make good money now, so it’s fine because we’re not, we’re probably, I’m definitely gonna be someone that’s falling into some of these mistakes that we’re gonna go into. And it’s easy, again, finances, I feel like money can sometimes feel hard, like, or it can be, yeah, it can feel hard. And it could also be, I mean, I get it restrictive feeling like, do I have enough funds? Like I lived much of my life working two jobs, paying off student loans and feeling like I don’t even have money to actually be able to contribute to a long term savings plan.

And so I wanna empathize for anyone that’s like that too, because hey, we’re all there. This is going to be something that’s going to help you. It’s information to be able to think and consider things differently. Right. You, let’s go into it. What are some of the mistakes that you see people making? I mean, I know like the joke that I kind of made before this, because we’re recording this in November, we’re going into a holiday season of spending, and I can only imagine how many purchases are made right now that people maybe don’t need. So they might be throwing their money out the door, but what are some of the mistakes that you notice that people make?

Having a Scarcity Mindset is a Common Financial MistakeEunicia Peret: Well, one of the big mistakes, actually, it’s funny because you mentioned it yourself earlier. It’s, it’s this idea of I, you know, I have, I have debt, I have student loans, I have all of these things, all of these, these people, these companies, these, these other individuals that we need to take care of, mortgage whatever it is that your, your financial commitments are. And oftentimes individuals keep putting it off. So one of the big mistakes is, is just acting from, from a scarcity mindset to say, I don’t have enough to pay myself. And one of the guiding things that I have for individuals is you gotta start small. Because when you start and when you see it accumulating our patterns shift, your mindset shifts the way that you purchase, the way that you think about your spending shifts. And so we must stop acting with that from, from that standpoint of, of we don’t make enough.

We don’t know enough, we don’t wanna see it. That’s another big, big thing that I see with individuals. It’s money. It’s so taboo. Oftentimes, you know, we, we grow in families and we come up through the ranks and nobody really talks about it. It’s, it’s been so taboo for so long that we just prefer not to think about it. And I feel it’s more of a risky proposition for those that are already making really good money. If you’re already in the six, multi six figure income arena, oftentimes you see a lot of money coming through, but you also see a lot of money going out, and you have this misconception, there’s this misalignment that we make really good money now. We’re always gonna make good money. And one of the things that, that I see with people is this, this fear of, especially when, when folks work for a company, work for somebody else’s, this fear of what happens if I lose my job?

Well, here’s the, the idea, when our finances are in order and we know we’ve done things right for ourselves earlier on, we don’t have those fears because now we know that even if something was to happen, even if that job gets to be lost or we get fired or let go, or economy hits, or another COVID comes around or whatever happens, we have the financial standing to be fine on our own and to look for better opportunities. But without doing things right on the forefront, and without putting aside those limiting beliefs, oftentimes individuals end up living a vicious cycle that is, is frankly too much to bear for most.

It’s OK to Start Small – Just Get StartedJenn DeWall: I heard you say within that, like starting small, I mean, what house fall is too small because I think one of the barriers for me with that scarcity, yeah, it’s like, I don’t have enough, but then if I feel like I’m putting, you know, $5 away, I may not feel like, well, that’s not anything. So what do you, when you say small, how would you approach small to get us to like kinda embrace that?

Eunicia Peret: No, that, that’s a great question. And, and I love the fact that you mentioned $5, right? If we were to sit and just think about our spend, our daily spend and, and we were to, to assess where is it how much money we spend on a daily basis, how much money comes in, how much money we spend on a daily basis. Oftentimes I ask clients, well, you know, what, what would you like to set up for yourself, say on a monthly basis? Well, I’d like to set up a thousand dollars, but a thousand dollars. I’m just using really rough numbers, right? This, this may be for the individual that’s, that’s really saying, I really like, I really don’t have enough. So play with the numbers in your, in your mind, but let’s say a thousand dollars and they’ll say that’s too much. Like, I wanna do that, but it’s too much.

Okay, well let’s throttle it back. What, what do you think you could potentially do per day? Can you pay yourself $10 a day? Is that too much? What about $5 a day? Start somewhere. If, if $5 a day seems like it’s a stretch, think about it. Do you go to Starbucks? Are you buying two or three coffees every single day? Are you doing anything extra? Are you stopping at the gas station and buying that pop soda? That’s $2, $3. Is that something that maybe you could be buying at at Whole Foods? Not Whole Foods, sorry, at at Costco or at Sam’s and have in bulk at home. And if you like it, that’s awesome, but find different alternatives to spend that money so that you can free up whatever it is that’s $5, $7, $10, a hundred dollars a day. It really is relevant to the individual. And that’s one of the reasons why we shouldn’t, nobody should put themselves in a, in a corner to say, I don’t make enough. I don’t have enough. Because wealth is relative and how much you can save is going to also be relative to where you’re at. But without starting and without setting that money aside, you never know how much further you can push it because you’ve never started.

Financial Mistakes and Holiday SpendingJenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, you said so much that I feel like, again, these are mistakes that I make. I can tell you that I know. Because lately I’m like, we have to be, I want us to be a little bit more confident and focused on a strategic financial future. And, but then it’s the holiday season, Eunicia. I mean, I of course need my Starbucks or I need a pumpkin spice latte. Of course I need to go and buy all of the holiday decor to make my house feel like a warm hallmark movie. I mean, this is honestly how I rationalize and spend. If you come to my house, it looks like Christmas exploded. I can’t help it. I love getting into it, but if I really think about it, and I do, because my husband and I just had this conversation and he’s like, I swear you get a dopamine hit every time there’s an Amazon package delivered.

And it’s, when we have that conversation, I’m like, I don’t need any of this. I genuinely don’t need it. It makes me happy because I love the aesthetic of the holiday. But in terms of money, yeah, it’s a big waste. And I have to probably face the music a little bit more and challenge myself to say, Jenn, but you don’t really need this next ornament or a third tree. I don’t need a third tree, Eunicia. I just love Christmas. I know it’s there, but really it just does not make economic sense.

But maybe some of our listeners can relate to some of those impulsive spending habits that we have or the little moments of joy. And also being curious about what are we also trying to cover up when we do that, right? Because there is a little bit of like, when we spend that is tied to our mental state of how we wanna feel or thinking that we buy that thing, it’s gonna take away our pains. And I do that a lot. I don’t know, maybe that was too much. What are additional mistakes that you see people making or where they get it, where they might get, you know, their financial approach wrong?

Eunicia Peret: Well, I think if we sit and, and kind of think about, there are so many, but it, because we’re around the holidays and a lot of people out there are probably feeling the same way that you do, right? Whether it’s Christmas or it’s Easter or it’s some other holiday that people celebrate, there is this impulse to just, and and frankly the stores don’t make it any easier. Amazon doesn’t make it any easier to just say no, right? But what I, what I tell folks is, is sit down and think about what truly makes you joyful. Is it that extra pillow? Is it that extra Christmas tree? Is it that extra decoration? Maybe you can put yourself on a schedule where you don’t buy major decorations, but every two to three years, maybe you can soften things up by just changing up the type of music that you play in the house.

Maybe you can play music consistently. By the way, that’s actually something that I’m trying myself. And the reason I do that is because instead of the music playing just in the office, when I work for my home office, I like hearing the music in the whole house because then whatever I go, there’s just that ambiance. Or same thing with the office, right? If you’re, if you’re at an actual office, it’s about changing the culture. It’s about starting to look at what are the things that make us truly happy internally? And what we find is that spending more on things isn’t getting us there. What people see though on the other side when they start truly building wealth is that as they see their wealth accumulating, their spending habits change. I’ll give you myself as an example. I am, I can be very dangerous when I go shopping, and I know that.

So for that reason, I have learned to govern the way that I spend it, the way that I look at things. And I’ve gotten to the point where every time I see something, there’s this question and rationale that goes through my mind of do I really need it? And if, if I’m looking at an extra $150, it’s really, it’s just $150, but then $150 plus another $150 plus whatever else you throw at it, talking about wealth. And when I say wealth for those, those individuals that will say, well, but I really don’t strive to be uber wealthy or wealthy, wealth is relative. Once again, it’s, it’s building that financial independence.

I know that $150 will go so much longer, so much further. If I don’t really need to spend it today, it’s gonna go much further for me in the long run. And especially with inflation going through the roof and everything else that we’re battling with, we just really need to think about how do we want to live our future? Because it’s not just about today. If we can focus on the future, we’re gonna get not just the future benefits, but we’re gonna get more of that peace in our heart that, hey, we’re in a really good place. Even if something does happen, we’ve got that peace, that extra blanket or that extra pillow or Christmas or whatever it is that we get is not gonna, we’re not gonna be able to chew on that and it’s not gonna be able to feed us if worse comes to worse.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, it definitely won’t be able to feed me. Absolutely not. It will take up storage space at my house and this is our first house. Right. So I, I think I get, I overdo it for that, but I love what you said, but I’m curious, how do you– because maybe I do need the fear, right? I need the, like understanding what it could look like, the cost of not, right, the cost of inaction. When you see people nearing maybe the end of their working time and thinking about their wealth or their financial future, what does, what’s maybe a good example that you’ve seen of someone feeling being able to maintain their lifestyle? And what’s an example of someone that maybe their whole, like everything kind of had to shift because they just didn’t, you know, focus on it then. And so now that they’re out of work, they actually have a more restricted budget. Do you have examples of kind of both sides of those spectrum? I think that’d be helpful to place that.

Understanding Retirement Savings to Avoid Financial MistakesEunicia Peret: Absolutely. So one, one really good example is individuals kind of working and going through their careers. And if, if you are the type of individual and you’re listening and you’re already contributing to your 401k, congratulations, you’re probably doing more than a lot of people are. But here’s what happens. Even for individuals that set money aside in the traditional retirement types of accounts, what they don’t realize is that when they get to retirement, their tax situation is actually going to potentially harm them. So oftentimes people go through their careers and they go through life and building their businesses with this idea that when I retire my tax bracket, I’m gonna be in a lower tax bracket. But what they forget to think about is they’re not gonna have the children at home. They’re not gonna have all the deductions that they’ve had building their career, you know, pay mortgage on their house, building their business, et cetera, et cetera.

And so even a small incremental shift in taxes is going to ultimately put a huge strain on how they live their retirement lifestyle, right? Or, or if people don’t like to think of it as retirement when we stop working for money. And so one of the big, big issues that we see is that people don’t plant accordingly. Again, just setting money aside in some account is not enough. If that account is not built with a true purpose in mind, starting early. Really being able to think of what do we want to, what do we want to be in the future? And how do we work things backwards? Simple quote-unquote, financial planning is not enough because most financial planning is just focused on put money here or put money there and hope that it’s gonna be fine. But even in those situations, the numbers and the percentages are going lower and lower every single year it seems.

So for example, for individuals in years past when they retired, it was okay to say, Hey, we’ll be drawing out, you know, five to 6% out of our retirement income. Then that number went down to 4%. Well, now a lot of financial planners will say, oh, no, no, no, no, we cannot draw 4%. We really need to be down in the two to 3% range. So now you are taking even less money out of what you’ve accumulated. That’s even gonna be even more impacted by taxes in the future. And it’s a recipe for disaster. But in order to flip that around, we need to really start focusing and looking at what do we want the end to look like or the future to look like? And if we work it backwards, then we’re able to make changes and implement tactics and solutions today that are going to enable us to have that financial independence and financial lifestyle in the future that we so desire.

Jenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, I, there’s so many things that come to mind for me. I might have a more of a unique perspective from just from where I sit because it actually was hard for me to think about long term wealth because when I was in my twenties, my dad had a stroke that put him into a nursing home. But it was during the 2008 recession. So he was laid off and he didn’t have insurance. And so ultimately that pushed him into what the United States has Medicaid and Medicaid, that then to make him eligible for Medicaid, we had to sell his house. We had to cash out all his pension, his annuity, and the only income that he has is the a hundred dollars a month that he gets and everything else goes back in, right? So even though he planned for it, once you hit Medicaid, and I say this because people don’t plan for like, also the other pieces of life, like it will happen.

Jenn DeWall: I don’t wanna say it’s going to, but like you don’t know, my dad was 54 when he had a stroke that altered his life. And on the flip side, my mom was also 50 and she went through a mental health crisis, or she was 54 as well, and with schizophrenia and lost everything just by nature of the disease. And so she lost everything that she had worked for, she had spent down and she had paid that. Like, and not to say that that example is likely for anyone, but just to understand that there are things that are gonna happen that you’re gonna bank on that aren’t necessarily going to come to fruition in that way. Like, you have to be able to understand that life is gonna take you down different paths and you have to set yourself up for success. And I’m not sure if that was too, I guess too much to say, but really when I got, I think when I was younger, I first had the notion of like, well, what the heck am I saving for if, like, if my life is gonna turn out like this, why try now?

Jenn DeWall: That was honestly my first kind of way to look at finances was just because I saw that it didn’t really matter. But, you know, the, on the flip side of it, I want to be able to do the things that I do right now today. I know that life is gonna throw me some curve balls and some wrenches I need to get ahead of it. That’s probably the long, the long winded way of saying that to anticipate for that stuff and not just to assume that it’s gonna be easy. Every, there’s nothing that’s gonna go wrong, no light will have ebbs and flows, and we have to make sure that we’re setting ourself up for success.

Preparing for the UnexpectedEunicia Peret: 100%. And you know, your, your parents’ cases is definitely unfortunate, but it’s not unique. It happens. I mean, as we age, I’ll never forget, my mom used to tell me that she was having a hard time driving at night, right? And I used to think, I mean, I didn’t discount and I did not say that she was not telling the truth, but I just couldn’t see it until not long ago. I was driving at night and I thought to myself, wait, it just feels like it’s much harder to drive. I’m just having a harder time perceiving the lights and everything else. And I’m, I’m not my mom’s age. And I call her, I said, I think I understand. And she, she just kind of giggled. And she said, you still don’t understand. I mean, sure, you may have noticed something, but the reality is that as we aged, there are things that we really can’t anticipate.

And, and you mentioned something that’s beautiful that sadly we don’t really look in retrospect, it’s, it’s the idea of learning from those that have gone before us, right? We may not experience the same exact things that they experience, but we’re gonna experience similar things. And even in your parents’ case, right? How beautiful would it have been if instead of having to liquidate everything your family could have actually enjoyed the fruits of everything that they have saved for versus having to go through a fire sale just to appease what it is that our government is saying in order to be able to qualify for that, for that support. It’s really sad. Unfortunately, things have to be done well in advance. We can’t do it when we’re already there and things would’ve needed to already shift,

Jenn DeWall: My gosh, transfer those assets, get past the look back period. You can Google that. That’s not my financial period. That would be my financial advice of what I’ve learned of like transferring assets, getting your power of attorney lined up, you know, setting up who’s gonna handle that and where they’re gonna go. But that’s not the focus of today. We are gonna talk about how we can take a different approach. And I know that you have the three pillars of financial planning. It’s the methodology, it’s how we can look at this to apply a different approach to hopefully maximize what our long term savings looks like. So let’s dive into it. Eunicia, let’s go the three pillars of financial planning. What are they?

Three Pillars of Financial Planning to Avoid Financial MistakesEunicia Peret: So before I go into the three pillars of financial planning, let me just preface it by saying that when we started looking at what are the different blind spots, what are the different pitfalls that frankly I was missing out on that I didn’t see. But so many others, executives and, and leaders, rising leaders unfortunately, are facing day in and day out. What became very a big eye opener was that it, they were kind of in my mind, and based on everything that we’ve seen, they’re focused on kinda three different areas. And those three different area, consequently are those three pillars that we’re talking about. The first one is taxes. One of the things that I had no idea I really, truly could have had so much more of an impact on was minimizing my tax exposure legally and, and doing things basically in accordance to the tax law.

But unfortunately, so many other people are trapped in that same exact situation. And especially for those that are w2, the whole idea for many of them is I cannot legally reduce my tax exposure. The reality is that you can’t, is it easy? No, it requires work, but it can be done. So one of the things that we do, one of the, the first pillar is focusing on how do we minimize our tax exposure because of the businesses that we have or because of the, the jobs that we have and, and our passions today so that we can enjoy the fruits of those, of those savings down the road. And oftentimes what we see is that people leave as much as 30 to 50% more, they pay more in taxes than they truly should.

Jenn DeWall: Wait. How, how does that happen though? Cause I mean, does it, if you’re a w2, is it that you’re not claiming your exemptions? Like how, how are we paying more in taxes?

Eunicia Peret: Well, as a2, technically you cannot claim those exemptions, right? So you have to technically change your tax status. And that changing of tax status comes not only with, with some work, it requires support, but at the same time, it’s a, it’s a total mindset shift, right? I, I can’t tell you how many times I speak with, with high paid individuals, whether it be doctors, whether it be pilots and their whole, this whole idea of I don’t qualify for Roth. I mean, it’s something as simple as Roth account or Roth 401k. I don’t qualify for Roth because I make too much money. Hello? Who in the world gave them that idea? Whether they heard it internally in their company or they spoke to somebody that gave them that idea, the reality is that they’re leaving money. This is future taxes on the table without knowing that they could be doing something about it. Now, there’s also this idea of minimizing taxes in the present here, but a lot of, especially they’re W2 s a lot of W2 employees don’t understand that there are ways and what are the ways in which they can do that? So we focus on taxes for, for, for today, right? And that’s where our team of experts are exceptionally well suited to work with individuals that historically did not know that they had options. The second pillar, as we move,

Ask More Questions to Avoid Financial MistakesJenn DeWall: Wait, can I ask the basic question? Sure. What’s a Roth IRA? I’m gonna do it. I don’t know. I mean, I’ve heard of it, I know the term, like I’m not fluent in it, but it sounds like there’s a tax shield, but it also sounds like there could be an income. What, what is a Roth IRA?

Eunicia Peret: So a Roth IRA or a Roth 401k, if, for those that are contributing to their 401k, is a savings plan where you pay taxes on the income today and that money as it grows, and that Roth account will not be taxable down the road. That Roth account will also position individuals, the Roth money, at least based on the current legislation. It’s not going to go against your social security income and other types of income that you have, which are going to put you, A lot of people also don’t know that social security can be taxed up to 85%, 80 up to 85% of your social security benefits can actually be taxed. So now we’re talking about double taxation. Congratulations. If you’re making a lot of money today, there’s a likelihood that you’re going to be paying even more in taxes than you anticipated because you are gonna be making better money in the future. And so those are a lot of the different things that people don’t know. But I hope that that answers your question regarding that

Jenn DeWall: No, thank you. I’m, I don’t, I will ask all the questions that people may or may not know, or maybe everyone can get a good laugh by saying, oh my gosh, I can’t believe she doesn’t know what that is. I, I mean, I’ve heard of Roth IRA, I just don’t, I’m being honest, I’m probably one of the your targets right now of people that aren’t doing these things. And I’m just trying to be transparent to say to our listener, don’t go into the shame and bury your head in a hole. We’ve got to, you know, face it head on and take responsibility. So I’m just trying to be a little vulnerable in that approach. All right,

Eunicia Peret: So the first, here’s what, before we go into the second, the second pillar, here’s what I wanna tell you specifically on that. Roth versus traditional, there are a lot of books out there. Because obviously we, we stay on top of what’s happening in our industry. There are a lot of books out there that will tell people, Hey, it’s set more money aside in a traditional account because you don’t pay taxes on that money today. You’ll pay taxes in the future. But what a lot of individuals don’t understand is that a lot of those books are written for the people that are never gonna rise above a certain level. So if you are that individual that says, I really, I want to live the same lifestyle in retirement as perhaps you do now because you make really good money, then you’re gonna, what, what those same authors and those same books will tell you is, oh, by the way, down the road you can do a back Roth conversion.

Well, why in the world would I choose to do a back Roth conversion down the road and pay more in taxes because I’m going to be making more money? Versus thinking strategically today to figure out what should that portion of traditional versus Roth accounts look like for me? Because it’s not to say that you have to do one or the other, you can do a mix, but a lot of individuals don’t know that those options exist or how to think through them. And because of that, it’s gonna end up costing them potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars down the road and just taxes a little.

Jenn DeWall: Wow. That’s, I mean, I love that. I hope that that was a great tip for everyone and just thinking of considering and how you start to evaluate these.

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Common Investment MistakesJenn DeWall: All right, let’s, let’s dive into the second pillar now.

Eunicia Peret: So the second pillar is, it’s really a continuance of the first pillar, but focuses more on how do we grow our wealth, right? Where, where does money get ultimately invested? And a lot of individuals have this anxiety about the market. Sure, the younger generation, not so much. But as we get into those forties days into those fifties, people start asking the question of, can I truly afford a downturn? Can I afford a 30% of 50% or even higher downturn in the market? And the answer for many people is no, they not only can’t afford it, they can’t stomach it, they cannot go through it emotionally, it’s too draining. But then the question becomes, what else can we do? Because historically they don’t know that they have options. And so one of the things that I’m a huge believer in is this notion of people need to understand what their options are when it comes to investing.

And investing can be in, in the, in traditional financial vehicles, non-traditional financial vehicles, which are truly not exposed to the market. But then there’s this whole other aspect of investments, different types of investments that have nothing to do with the financial services industry. And that’s a lot of the same things. Those are the same strategies that no one is really talking about. Why are they not talking about, because frankly, the investors that are out there, they want to know that they have people that they know, like, and trust coming in. And so if it’s just somebody off the street saying, Hey, I’d like to be part of this fund, or this, this investment, or whatever it is that the opportunity is, the likelihood that they’re gonna be able to get in is nil. But the biggest challenge is people don’t even know that they have access to these opportunities.

And so when we looked at the blind spots, one of the big things that I said is, boy, I wish I would’ve had access to know how the angels angel investors work. It doesn’t take millions of dollars to become an angel investor. The risks can be much higher, but guess what? The rewards are also likely much higher as well. And if you know what you’re looking at, then it gives you, again, the sense of this new renewed sense of I’ve accomplished and I’m doing really well for myself because I’m truly diversified. And when I say diversified, I’m not talking about that pie chart that you see in your 401k statement or your investment statement. Okay? So that’s, that’s a big thing, is really that second pillar is focused on giving individuals the empowerment to understand what are the different options and figuring out what are the options that actually resonate with who they are with how they see money so that they can ultimately not only build wealth, but sleep better at night.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah, I mean there, I think their ignorance is bliss, right? Like I honestly can tell you that statement. Oh gosh, I’m really just, I guess I’m really, maybe this is my financial confession during this podcast today, because I have not looked at my 401k statement from my old job that I was, that for 10 years. I’ve not looked at it in like years. Cause I don’t wanna see how much it’s dropped over the last few years. I’m just ignorance is bliss, right? I’m that person where I’m like, I don’t wanna know. But on the flip side, I also think it was really oblivious to some of the alternatives to the market, that it’s not just out there. And maybe I’m not saying you’re saying this, but even I worked for a brief period with a company that, a private equity firm. And so taking your 401k and rolling that into real estate a rolling that into a business, understanding that there are many different ways to actually invest your money than what you might traditionally think.

Jenn DeWall: And so I appreciate you saying that because I honestly had no idea. I mean, I knew that like private equity existed, I just thought that was for some super wealthy people that were out there doing stuff, like I had no idea that actually a typical person could actually do it depending on, you know, the type of investment you’re going to make. And so when I realized that, I was like, oh my gosh. So if you can tell I’m not, I’m multimillionaire, I’m a normal person just like you or just like the people listening and yeah, I think it’s just, it helps to realize that there were other options. And you can take a 401k and you can, you know, roll it in and invest it, and you can do different things with it. But the thing is, you have to start having these conversations. You’ve got to start to think about it differently,

The Economy and Learning from Past Financial MistakesEunicia Peret: 100%. And it’s not just the conversation, it’s also who do you trust? Because yeah, we’re right, wrong or indifferent, we’re, we’re not nobody. I’ve not heard one person that, that have said that 2023 is gonna be easier on a financial spectrum than 2022 has been. On the contrary, everybody’s thinking that 20 we have to brace for 2023. So then what do we do? Considering that a lot of the alternative investments, you know, people have really made a lot of money when the economy was really good. But the question is, who’s been out there? Who was out there in 2008, 2009 that rode the waves? They did not end up losing everything. Because when you are thinking about setting, putting your money somewhere, you don’t wanna put it with individuals that completely lost everything in 2008, 2009, unless you want to repeat the same process. So one of the big things is who do we trust and how do we go about that to make sure that, as you said, that money aside in those alternative types of investments, that again, it’s, it’s with people that you know, like, and trust if they come through trusted referral sources, et cetera, et cetera.

And they have the trajectory to prove for, for the actions that they’ve taken in the past.

Jenn DeWall: Okay, so I wanna add like a follow up question to that, because I think that it is true when you have, I know you know this, I know you know this, so it’s not gonna be offensive, but like financial planners, like all of a sudden you’re like, oh my gosh, they’re gonna sell it to me. I don’t know what to do. They’re go like, and sometimes it can feel like, and I don’t know cause then you’re talking about a topic that I’m already uncomfortable talking about because I’m not sure I wanna talk about my financial period, so or my financial fur future. So how do you kind of assess that? Because I think initially there is, unless you’re proactively like, Hey, I wanna do this, I’m more inclined to distrust someone because it’s my money than I am to trust. So how, what are things I’m not alone, right? This is how other people are, or I’m

Eunicia Peret: You are not alone. As a matter of fact, remember at the very beginning, I, I, I learned to distrust the financial services industry for that reason. Everybody unfortunately has something to sell, and the incentive in the industry is not for there to be collaboration across the financial team. Think about your cpa, think about your attorney, think about your financial planner. One of the biggest things for me, which, which really led me to this distrust was actually after I started working with individuals where I was a fly on the wall. And I cannot tell you how many financial advisory kind of interviews I, I just wanted to observe. Again, that was my, my strong suit as a financial a strategy consultant and, and financial in the financial world to say, you know, I just wanna observe, and I cannot tell you how many situations there were where clients would come in with a real estate portfolio and the conversation would go something along the lines of real estate is wonderful.

Here’s all the reasons why you should stay away from hardcore assets. Oh, by the way, you can still reinvest in real estate if it’s through a REIT or through some sort of a fund. Because that’s how the financial planner was getting incentivized, is to have the clients there at their disposal versus in the hard assets. Well, when I realized that, hey, by the way, my husband’s in real estate, we’ve been in real estate for a really long time, and I happen to be very passionate about real estate. Not to say that everything has to be in real estate, not at all. But it’s, it’s a it’s an area that I know that I trust that we’ve made money in, et cetera, et cetera. And so one of the different approaches that we take with our clients is I don’t ever want a client to be in a situation where they feel like their questions are stupid, especially when they talk to financial planners or financial advisors or anybody in the financial services industry.

Eunicia Peret: And so after clients end up working with us, they know that there’s no question and there’s no statement that is gonna get thrown their way, that’s going to make ’em feel tiny as a human being. Why? Because they’re empowered with the knowledge. They don’t have to know how to do it themselves, but they’re empowered with the knowledge to know that, as one of my coaches would say, they no longer will be bamboozled because they know better. They know that they have options. And so when somebody comes and says, well, this is best for you, because… Immediately the answer can be, well, I don’t think it fits me. Here are the reasons why. Whereas historically, people don’t know how to come back with that answer because they don’t understand the different options.

Financial Planning by Working BackwardsJenn DeWall: Yeah, I love that. Giving people permission to not know, being supportive and trying to build that collaboration that is absent of that feeling like, I don’t know, you’re just trying to get something from me and I don’t even know if I like you. I, I really appreciate your approach because I, I feel like that’s, if people responded like that, like I would build trust a lot faster and feeling like, yeah, I actually wanna do this and thank you so much that I feel like I actually understand what we’re doing or what these fees look like or what the consequences are, that nothing is going to come outta the blue. That’s going to surprise me. Like I really appreciate that approach. All right. I know that we have, I love, I love this conversation, but I know we still have to get to our final pillar. What is the final pillar?

Eunicia Peret: So the final pillar is what I would call the, the strategy, right? Whether it’s we’re we’re working on W2 job and we are looking at retirement, or we may be our business owners, or we want to build a business and we want at some point in time think about how do we, how do we pass that business on? Or how do we, how do we get to enjoy the fruits of our labor when it comes to the financial side of things, right? When it comes to being able to extract the money that we’ve set aside or the wealth that we’ve built. And so when we focus there as I mentioned earlier, we really start looking at both forwards but also backwards. We have to look backwards in order to understand where we’re at. And this is where I have a, a great example a client that came to us, and it’s funny because I just met with husband and wife two weeks ago and when the very first time they came to us one of the things that she said is, I, we talked about what, what do you think you you’re gonna wanna be when you retire?

And she said, well, based on everything that we’ve been told, again, by however many other people they’ve spoken with, we would be happy if we’re looking at somewhere around $5,000 per month. And I thought, okay, that’s, that’s not a bad number, right? Especially for people in retirement based on their lifestyle, et cetera. Well, here’s the deal. When we work things backwards and we made just a couple of small shifts in, in terms of their financial portfolio, not all of it, but some of the things shifted at the very onset on a very minimal basis, they were looking at a projected $8,000 in income. And that was very conservative. Wow. Can we honestly say that their life has ar automatically changed that their mindset is now in a totally different place. Because instead of thinking if I can get $5,000 now they know that at a minimum we’re gonna have almost a guaranteed $8,000 coming in.

Jenn DeWall: Yeah,

Eunicia Peret: Well here’s the beautiful thing. This was a few years ago when we met just a couple of weeks ago and we looked at, of course they’ve gotten better jobs and they’ve gotten better salaries and they’re setting more money aside and their, you know, their, their financial platform continues to evolve. Now, eight thousand dollars is gonna be there, but it’s gonna be a whole lot more than that. And so as we, I’m sure everybody that’s listening can think to, well, if I could, and the idea is you can, but you have to have the right strategies in place. And without working things backwards, there is no way that that’s gonna happen. Unfortunately, to work things backwards goes against the grain of what the industry as a whole does. And when we realized that that was one of the big blind spots for people, we just said, you know what?

We have to focus on it. We have to work things backwards as hard as it is. Because then we know we’re gonna, we’re either on the path to achieve the results or we’re veering off path and we need to come back to course. And it’s just a beautiful thing because that gives us that sense of we’re gonna be okay. And that sense of, of confidence in what the future is gonna hold is so powerful regardless of what happens in life with our careers, et cetera, they will bounce back. But if we don’t do things correctly on the financial side, we’re gonna constantly play catch up. And catch up is not a pretty thing to do.

How to Connect with Eunicia to Learn MoreJenn DeWall: Oh my gosh, catch up just sounds, we have less time and we’re not as energetic as we used to be. So catch is gonna be hard at that point in time. Work it backwards, be open to a new approach. Check your scarcity mindset. Talk about those three pillars of reducing and minimizing your taxes and optimizing your financial portfolio. And of course just retirement planning. You’ve shared a lot today. I have really enjoyed our conversation. I think probably because it felt like confession for me, I really had to own some of the mistakes that I’m making. But how can people get in touch with you?

Eunicia Peret: The easiest way is to check us out on our website, empowerfinancialplanner.com. We’re also on social media. You can find us under Eunicia Peret we’re quite active, especially on LinkedIn for our listeners, I’m sure you guys are all on there. Reach out to us, message us and it would be our pleasure to help you out. And we also have a, a giveaway for you guys. The five biggest pitfalls that we see in individuals. They’re a very easy read. I encourage every one of our listeners to go in there, check ’em out, and after you have a chance to read them, it’ll also give you an opportunity to schedule a call with one of our team members. It would be our pleasure to just answer some questions that you guys may have and you can find that at empoweredfinancialplanner.com/pitfalls. And it’ll also be, I think in the meeting notes.

Jenn DeWall: Yep. It’ll be in the show notes. Thank you so much, Eunicia, for just sharing, stopping to give us your expertise, your time even to probably entertain the random questions that I asked. I just really appreciate your approach to financial planning and really thinking about how can we maximize our future so we can live those best years in the best way possible. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Eunicia Peret: It was my pleasure, Jenn. Thanks for having me.

Jenn DeWall: Thank you so much for listening to today’s podcast. I know that there were so many insights that I gained. I know that I obviously have a big opportunity to maybe be a little bit more assertive in how I manage my finances and even if it is just starting small, just like Eunicia opened with starting small. Now, if you want to get in touch with Eunicia, you shared a resource, the Five Pitfalls to Avoid in Retirement. So if you wanna connect with it, it’s going to be in our show notes. You can find that resource link at empoweredfinancialplanner.com backslash pitfalls. And of course, if you enjoy today’s podcast episode or maybe you know someone else that could benefit from hearing this message, share it with them, leave us a review. We would love your feedback.

And in closing, if we could do, do anything for you or the leaders to help you develop, let us know. In January, we’ll be doing a free webinar open to the public, all about growth mindset. And of course we offer a complimentary two hour leadership skills workshop that we will be willing to come in virtually or in person to any of your organizations because we are so committed to developing and making the world a better place by developing better leaders. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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Creating a Work Culture that Accelerates Performance with Jessica Kriegel Jenn DeWall:  Hi, everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Jessica Kriegel to talk all about work culture. We talked about where people get it wrong, what’s maybe some language that we need to […]

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Unexpected Leadership Lessons from ‘80s Pop Culture with Chris Clews Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we’re talking about something a little different, and I am here for it. We are talking about unexpected life lessons from the music and movies of one of pop culture’s […]

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Reprogram Your Brain with Neuro-Hacker, Iris Polit Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Iris Polit to talk about how to reprogram your brain. Iris Polit is an award-winning author, speaker, and career and personal branding strategist. She is an advocate of brain […]

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How to Promote Yourself with Authentic Communication, with Sonja Stetzler, Executive Communication Coach Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Sonja Stetzler to talk about how you can promote yourself in an authentic way. Sonja Stetzler is the CEO and founder of Effective […]

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How to Operationalize Kindness in the Multi-Generational Workforce with Phillip Kane On this week’s episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Phillip Kane about managing the great resignation by looking at it from a generational perspective. Listen in to learn more about how employee expectations have changed in the multi-generational workforce, and […]

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How to be a More Influential Leader with Anthony DeMario, Speaker and Brain Health Strategist Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Ant DeMario to talk about how to be a more influential leader. I love Ant. He’s a colleague of mine. He’s […]

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Transforming Your Crisis Response with Workforce Wellness Expert, John Robertson In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with John Robertson to talk about how to transform your traditional crisis response. John Robertson is the founder and president of FORTLOG Services, and John built his services with a focus on […]

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How to Be a More Effective Leader with Gena Cox, PhD On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Gena Cox and I sat down to talk about how to be a more effective leader. And hey, here’s one tip that you can hear right from Gena— stop using 2019 behavior to address 2022 […]

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Building Resilience to Navigate Change with Dr. Steve Yacovelli Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we are talking about building resilience! I feel like it’s a message that so many of us need right now. And to have this conversation, I sat down with Dr. Steve […]

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Six Paths to Leadership with Meredith Persily, CEO of Aspire@Work On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sat down with Meredith Persily to talk about her newest book that she co-authored, Six Paths to Leadership. Let me tell you a little more about Meredith. Meredith is the CEO of Aspire at Work, […]

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What Leaders Need to Know About Cyber Security Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Corey White, CEO and founder of Cyvatar AI. We talked about a slightly different topic— one that we need to be more aware of, especially in our roles as […]

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Making More Ethical Choices with Christopher Gilbert, PhD Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Dr. Christopher Gilbert to talk about how we as leaders can make more ethical choices. Now, let me tell you a little bit more about Dr. Gilbert. Dr. […]

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Making More Ethical Choices with Christopher Gilbert, PhD Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Dr. Christopher Gilbert to talk about how we as leaders can make more ethical choices. Now, let me tell you a little bit more about Dr. Gilbert. Dr. […]

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How to Give a Great Speech with Attorney Brian Beckcom Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Brian Beckcom to talk about how to give and deliver a great speech. Now, I know what you might be thinking. You might be thinking, well, […]

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Strategic Self-Awareness with Leadership and Career Strategist, Lillian Davenport, SPHR, SHRM- SCP, Certified Coach Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Lillian Davenport to talk about the power of strategic awareness. Now, let me tell you a little bit more about Lillian. Lillian […]

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Solving Problems Through Faith, Family, Fitness and Finance with Preston Brown Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Preston Brown to talk about how to solve your problems. Now, let me tell you a little bit more about Preston Brown. Preston is a […]

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Heart-Powered Sales with Robin Treasure Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I sat down with Robin Treasure to talk all about heart-powered sales! Now, maybe you’re like me, and you hear the word sales, and you want to run. I don’t have the greatest confidence, or maybe […]

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Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall and in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. I sat down with Mark J Silverman to talk about how you can confront your to-do list to transform your life. Now, let me tell you a little bit about our guest today. Mark is an executive coach, an author, […]

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Meet Dr. Janet Polach, PhD, Author of The Seven Mistakes New Managers Make Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s so great to have you here. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down to talk with Janet all about The Seven Mistakes New Managers Make. Let me tell […]

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Learn to Lead with Heart and Empathy with Roberto Giannicola, Author of You’ve Got Algorithm, But Can You Dance? Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Roberto Giannicola. Drawing on his experience as a software developer and project manager and his own journey […]

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Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Laurie Sudbrink to talk about Leading with GRIT. Let me tell you a little bit more about Laurie. Like you, leadership expert and author Laurie Sudbrink has seen effective leadership that makes people want to step […]

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Building Relationships with Better Networking On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sit down to talk with Carol Parrish, all about building relationships and networking. Let me tell you a little bit more about Carol. Carol Parrish helps female leaders and male-dominated professions like aerospace manufacturing and tech achieve financial freedom and […]

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Creating High-Performing Teams Like a Jazz Band with Gerald J. Leonard Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, I sat down with Gerald J. Leonard to talk about creating high-performing teams like a jazz band, and his book Workplace Jazz: 9 Steps to Creating High-Performing Agile Project Teams. […]

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Communicate and Connect Through Story with Richard Newman, Founder of Body Talk Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Richard Newman to talk about how to lift yourself and others through story. Now, I just wrapped up this podcast, and I […]

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How to Bridge the Confidence Gap with Sinead Sharkey-Steenson   Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Sinead Sharkey-Steenson to talk about bridging the confidence gap. Now, I know what you’re thinking. Actually, some of you might be […]

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Two Things Leaders Need to Know Now with Gregory Offner Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Gregory Offner to talk about the two things that leaders need to learn now! Gregory Offner is one of the most in-demand experts on […]

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Harness the Power of Stewardship with David R. York On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sat down with David R. York to talk about The Gift of Lift: Harnessing the Power of Stewardship to Elevate the World. David is an attorney, a CPA, and a managing partner of York Howell & […]

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Minisode: Leadership Presence with Jenn DeWall Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall! And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, we’re doing a minisode on leadership presence, which is actually something we just discussed in Crestcom’s monthly webinar! You’ll have to go to crestcom.com/leadership-resources/ to check those out! Today the topic is leadership […]

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Leading From the Jumpseat with Peter Docker On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sat down with Peter Docker to talk all about his newest book, Leading from the Jumpseat: How to Create Extraordinary Opportunities by Handing Over Control. Peter is passionate about enabling people to unlock their natural talents. He teaches […]

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The Future of Work is Empathy with Work Innovation Specialist Sophie Wade In this week’s episode at The Leadership Habit, we are talking with Sophie Wade about what’s next now that the future of work has arrived. Sophie Wade is a work futurist, an international keynote speaker and a Workforce Innovation Specialist at Future of […]

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4 Words to Transform Your Sales with Merit Kahn, CEO of SELLect Sales Development Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Merit Kahn to talk about the four words to transform your sales. Merit Kahn is the CEO of SELLect- emphasis […]

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How to Make Strategies Stick with Executive Coach, Liz Kislik On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn Dewall sat down with Liz Kislik to talk about how to make strategies stick. Liz Kislik, a Harvard Business Review and Forbes contributor, has over 30 years of experience speciaLizing in developing high-performing leaders in […]

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How to Make Confident Decisions with Mo Hamzian, CEO at VEL Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Mo Hamzian to talk about how to make confident decisions. Mo is a London Business School Sloan Fellow and the co-founder and CEO […]

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How Organizations Can Get DEIB Right with Martine Kalaw, Elevation Strategist Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Martine Kalaw to talk about how organizations can get DEIB right? Martine is a DEI top leader and learning and development expert who […]

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Business Performance and Mindset: The Game You Must Win Now More Than Ever with Will Matthews Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Will Matthews to talk about the game you must win now more than ever before. Will Matthews helps […]

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Executive Loneliness and Mental Health with CEO and Author, Nick Jonsson Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Nick Jonsson to discuss a very important topic, how to overcome executive loneliness. Nick Jonsson is the co-founder in managing director of one […]

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The Four Pillars of Leadership with Leadership Coach Nils Vinje On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sat down and talked with Nils Vinje. Nils accelerated from an individual contributor to vice president in 30 months. And every team that he ran became a high-performing team. So what did he do? He […]

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Managing Dissenting Opinions to Make Better Decisions with Dr. Tom Tonkin, CEO of The Conservatory Group On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sat down with Dr. Tom Tonkin. Dr. Tonkin considers himself a recovering executive and an aspiring Renaissance man, as an executive in the professional services and software sales arena. […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sits down with Chris Castillo to talk all about addressing recurring patterns that are sabotaging your success. Chris is the founder of Empowered Achievers, where she works as a career clarity coach, helping millennials build professional lives in small businesses that fulfill their true calling—originally […]

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Set Up Your Team for Success in 2022 with Leadership Team Coach, Nikhil Paul In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we talk with Nikhil Paul. For those that may not know him, Nikhil is a leadership coach who founded We R Human to help senior executives and their teams strengthen their focus […]

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How to Show Up as a Confident Leader with Award-Winning Author and Speaker, Bridgett McGowen Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Bridgett McGowen. Have you ever experienced someone’s energy that made you move to the edge of your seat, or […]

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Prioritizing Mental Health at Work Full Transcript Below: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we are talking about how you can prioritize mental health at work for yourself and others in this coming new year. There is no better time than now where people are very […]

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DEI and Leading Below the Surface LaTonya Wilkins, Founder of the Change Coaches Intro: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with LaTonya Wilkins, who is the founder of The Change Coaches, LLC, and LaTonya works with C-Suite and executive leaders, teams where human […]

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Minisode: How to Cultivate a Growth Mindset with Jenn DeWall Full Transcript Below: Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we’re doing a minisode all around cultivating a growth mindset. And this was created as a result of one of Crestcom’s monthly webinars. So if […]

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How to Recover from a Crisis with Communications Expert Zach Giglio Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Zach Giglio. Zach is a communications expert with more than a decade of experience in public relations, public affairs marketing, and both digital […]

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How to be an Effective Leader In Your Life with Barbara Dalle Pezze Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we are talking about how to be an effective leader. And joining me in that conversation is Dr. Barbara Dalle Pezze. Dr. Barbara Dalle Pezze […]

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Scale Up Your Business with Jonathan Goldhill, Author and Certified Growth Coach Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Jonathan Goldhill. Jonathan is a masterful scale-up business coach and personal strategist specializing in guiding next-generation leaders of family businesses to scale […]

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Changing Organizational Culture with Steve Frenkiel, President of Dynamic Connections In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall sits down with the president of Dynamic Connections and Crestcom leadership development client, Steve Frenkiel, to talk about how you can change organizational culture through leadership. Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And […]

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Achieve Behavioral Change by Shifting Your Patterns with Adele Spraggon Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with top  behavioral change expert, Adele Spraggon. Adele is an award-winning author, thought leader and international speaker and trainer. In 2020, she was awarded the […]

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Managing Conflict with Kevin Mowers, CEO of Extended Management, a Crestcom Franchise In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sat down with Kevin Mowers, the CEO and President of Extended Management, a Crestcom franchise located in Northeast Ohio. In his business. Kevin focuses on leadership development, using a specific process that ensures […]

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How to Drive Your Career with Leadership Coach and Author, Ed Evarts Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit. I sat down with Ed Evarts, who is the founder and president of Excellius Leadership Development, an organization focused on coaching mid to senior-level leaders and their teams […]

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Become a Better Storyteller with Chief Story Enabler, Keith Bailey Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall here, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, we are going to be sharing with you tips to tell better stories. I sat down with Keith Bailey, who has a passion for it was had a […]

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Tap Into Your Deep Genius with Executive Coach, Nancy Marmolejo Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Nancy Marmolejo, who is an award-winning Latinx, executive coach, and keynote speaker. She teaches leaders and entrepreneurs how to tap into their deep genius, […]

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Building Relationships for Sales Success with Kelly Mark Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone! It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, I sat down with sales, leadership expert and strategist, Kelly Mark. Kelly has over 25 years of experience in solution selling and managing successful sales teams. She helps them to focus […]

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Minisode: 5 Tips for Hybrid Leaders Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we are going to talk about hybrid leaders and managing hybrid teams. Yes! A Minisode devoted to the challenge and change that many of us are making in leadership today. Why does this […]

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Building Psychological Safety and Resilience in Teams with Executive Coach, Brad Reed Jenn DeWall: It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Brad Reed to talk about building resilience in creating psychological safety on your team. Brad is an Executive Wellness and Performance Coach, who after […]

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Overcome Confidence Killers by Tapping into Your Unconscious with Michele Molitor On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast,  Jenn DeWall talks about confidence killers with Michele Molitor. Michele is the Founder and CEO of Nectar Consulting, Inc., and co-author of the best-selling book, Breakthrough Healing. She works with executives and entrepreneurs bringing over […]

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Self-Care for Leadership Resilience with Jill Cruz, MS, CNS Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Jill Cruz. Jill Cruz, MS, CNS, specializes in weight loss, and she helps professional women over 40 enjoy the process of becoming the best versions […]

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Play to Your Team’s Strengths with Strengths Performance Coach, Chris Failla Jenn DeWall: It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Chris Failla. As a Gallup Certified Strengths Performance Coach, speaker, and trusted advisor. Chris helps unlock you and your team’s full potential through strengths. Chris […]

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Achieving High-Performance Through Emotional Intelligence with Neuro-Leadership Expert, Maureen Chiana Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone! It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Maureen Chiana, who was the neuro-leadership and emotional intelligence consultant, speaker, and facilitator. She leverages brain science insights of how the brain works to […]

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Discover Your Hybrid Professional Identity with Creative Disruptor, Sarabeth Berk Jenn DeWall: Hi everybody, it’s Jenn DeWall here, and on this week’s episode of Crestcom’s The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down to talk with Dr. Sarabeth Berk all about our hybrid professional identity. For those that might be unfamiliar with Dr. Sarabeth Berk, she […]

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The Paradox of Choice with Chief Choice Officer, Justin Hilton Jenn DeWall: Hi Everyone, It’s Jenn DeWall, and today on The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Justin Hilton. Justin Everett Hilton is a triple degreed alumnus of Kent State University and began his professional career as an architectural designer in Cleveland. Mr. Hilton […]

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Design a More Productive Workspace with Biophilic Design Expert, Oliver Heath Jenn DeWall: Hi, it’s Jenn DeWall, and in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with an industry-recognized expert in the field of sustainable architectural and interior design, Oliver Heath. What? Are we talking about architecture and interior design on […]

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Turning Your B.S.(Blind Sides) Into Leadership Success with Carla Romo Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Carla Romo. We talked about turning your B.S.— your blindsides— into leadership success. Let me tell you a little bit about Carla. Carla Romo […]

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The Art of Caring Leadership with author Heather R. Younger Full Transcript Below:  Jenn DeWall: Hi Everyone! It is Jenn DeWall with The Leadership Habit podcast for Crestcom. On today’s show, I sat down with Heather Younger. For those that may not know Heather Younger, she recently spoke at Crestcom Leadership Summit. We are so […]

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Becoming an Unapologetic Leader with Bold Move Expert, Rick Clemons Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with unapologetic leader Rick Clemons. Rick is a culture disruptor. He shakes up the status quo. He’s a closet-buster. He’s shattered those silly beliefs and […]

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Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, I sat down with Dr. Romie Mushtaq, and here’s what we talked about. Or maybe a little teaser. Do you have trouble focusing on your to-do list? Are thoughts are racing through your mind when you […]

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Get to Know the Featured Speakers for Day 2 of Crestcom’s Upcoming Virtual Leadership Summit! Jenn DeWall:  Hi everyone! It’s Jenn DeWall. And if you’re tuning in with us each week, we know that you’ve invested in yourself and furthering your leadership journey. At Crestcom, we believe great leaders aren’t born, they’re made! They turn skill […]

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Get to know Heather R Younger and Debra Fine, Featured Speakers at Crestcom’s Upcoming Virtual Leadership Summit Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And if you’re tuning in with us each week, we know you’re invested in yourself and furthering your leadership journey. At Crestcom, we believe great leaders aren’t born; they’re made. They […]

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Full Transcript Below: Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Vanessa Parker, who also is known as a Chief Chaos Organizer. Vanessa is a serial entrepreneur, wife, and mother currently holding an executive director position. She is a walking billboard for […]

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Stress Management to Prevent Burnout with Speaker and Coach, Aditi Ramchandani Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: It’s Jenn DeWall. And in this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down and connected with burnout thought leader, Emotional Wellness Speaker and Coach, Aditi Ramchandani. And for those that might be new to Aditi, oh […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we did our first three-person interview! Host Jenn DeWall sat down with Hilary Blair and Dr. Robin Miller, who co-own the organization ARTiculate Real & Clear. They coach corporate teams and individuals to elevate presence, communication, and connection. ARTiculate clients include AWS, Lumen, the ACLU and […]

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Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we are talking about a much trending topic, the topic of imposter syndrome. And it’s interesting. This is actually a topic that, you know, has been around for quite some time. It was actually coined […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn sat down with Steven Van Belleghem. Steven believes in a bright future where companies play the long-term game with their customers. His passion is spreading ideas about the future of customer experience. Steven believes in the combination of common sense, new technologies, an empathic human […]

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Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall with The Leadership Habit. And today, I’m talking about a very important issue and an issue that likely you may be experiencing yourself. And that topic is burnout. That’s right. We know that burnout was an issue prior to the pandemic, but that the pandemic has actually made it worse. […]

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The 4 C’s of Peak Performers with Val Jones, Former Elite Figure Skater Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down and talked to the expert in peak performers, Val Jones. Val is a former elite figure skater, and she has shared the podium with […]

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Values-Based Leadership with Dr. Christine Galib, Founder of Plan My Plate Intro: Hi Everyone! On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Dr. Christine Galib about values-based leadership. Dr. Christine Galib serves as the senior director of programs at the Ion. And in this role, she oversees the development and […]

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The People Side of Business with Brad Montgomery Full Transcript Below: Intro: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, I sat down with Brad Montgomery, and here’s what you need to know about Brad. Like you, happiness expert speaker and author Brad Montgomery believes happiness pays. It makes […]

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Full Transcript Below: Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It is Jenn DeWall here. And this week, you are going to listen to a “minisode” all about authentic leadership. Authentic leadership is actually quite a buzzword these days. And really, it’s just because people are craving to have more of a genuine connection with their colleagues. I […]

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You’re Not Lost – Finding Your Direction Your Own Way with Author, Host and Executive Producer Maxie McCoy Full Transcript Below:  Intro: Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of Crestcom’s The Leadership Habit podcast. In this episode, I sat down and talked with Maxie McCoy. For those that are unfamiliar with […]

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Running in the Rain with Time Freedom Coach and Author, Paul Weston Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Paul Weston. Paul grew up in Yorkshire, England, and after a youth absorbed in music and sport- at the age of 16, […]

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The Fine Art of Small Talk with Bestselling Author, Debra Fine Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with Debra Fine. Who is she? Well, a former engineer, Debra Fine is the author of bestselling books. The Fine Art of Small Talk: […]

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Happy New Year From The Leadership Habit! Full Transcript Below:  Jenn DeWall: Happy new year! Happy 2021! I know that myself, and I’m sure many of you listening are so happy to put 2020 in the rearview mirror. And for this minisode today, we’re going to be talking about how we want to show up […]

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Meet Curiosity Instigator, André van Hall Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, I sat down with André van Hall. Let me tell you a little bit about him. Backed by 40 years of five-star leadership experience as an executive in the hospitality industry, André […]

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On this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, I sat down with Nora Burns. And let me just tell you a little bit about why this is going to be such a great episode, because we’re going to be talking about bias and hiring, but here’s why you need to listen to Nora. Think about […]

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The Power of Because with Marketing Expert Gerry O’Brion Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone, Jenn DeWall here. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit, I sat down and talked with Gerry O’Brion. Let me tell you what this conversation is going to be about. Here’s the pitch- today, we’re going to learn a framework […]

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Emotional Intelligence for Sales Leadership with Colleen Stanley Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall! Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, where I sat down and talked with Colleen Stanley. She is just one of my favorite people to talk about emotional intelligence with, for those […]

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Achieve Your Goals Using the Success Formula with Executive Coach, Andy Fell Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone, it is Jenn DeWall. Thank you so much for tuning into The Leadership Habit podcast. This week, I sat down with Andy Fell, and what a great inspiring conversation it was. Andy is the founder of GiFT631, a virtual […]

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Practical KPIs with Bernie Smith, Author, Consultant & Trainer Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning into this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast. It’s Jenn DeWall here. And this week I sat down and connected with Bernie Smith. Bernie coaches businesses to develop meaningful key performance indicators or KPIs and […]

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Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone. Welcome to The Leadership Habit podcast. It’s your host Jenn DeWall. And in today’s episode, we interview innovation thought leader Stephen Shapiro. You might remember him from a past episode that we did about a year ago, but for the refresh, Stephen cultivates innovation by showing leaders and […]

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Elevate Your Virtual Presentation Skills Jenn DeWall: Hi, everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we are talking with Tanis Roeder, who is the founder and president of Elevate Your Communication, an international training and consulting company that focuses on educating individuals to become exceptional communicators. Couldn’t we […]

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Meet Natalie Dumond, Leadership Coach, Facilitator, and Speaker Jenn DeWall: Hey everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I talked to Natalie Dumond, whether she is helping you go after the life and dreams you were always meant to be living or showing organizations and leaders that there’s […]

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Buzzwords like Scrum and Agile are often misunderstood by leaders and workers alike. Jenn DeWall talks to Scrum Master and Agile Coach Lizzy Morris to bust some common myths and share some real ways to bring Agile to the people Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall. And on this week’s episode of The Leadership […]

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This episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast is taken from a recent Crestcom Webinar. You can also view it on YouTube here: How to Apply Agile Principles to Any Organization If you would like more information about future Crestcom Webinars, check out a trainer in your area, or click here: https://crestcom.com/leadership-trainer/leadership-team/ Agile Leadership Hi, everyone. It’s […]

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Lean Out with Bestselling Author and Leadership Speaker, Marissa Orr In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Marissa Orr, a former Google and Facebook executive, bestselling author, and leadership speaker. Spending 15 years working at today’s top tech giants, she’s conducted talks to thousands of people in the US, […]

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Ethics in the Era of AI with Innovator and Author, Matthew James Bailey, In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall talks to Matthew James Bailey about ethics and AI. The audio for this episode is taken from a recent Crestcom Webinar: Leadership in the Age of Artificial Intelligence.  Matthew James Bailey […]

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Leadership in the Age of AI with IT Architect and Data Scientist, Ivan Portilla In this episode of The Leadership Habit, Jenn DeWall welcomes guest Ivan Portilla. Ivan is a Senior IT Architect and Data Scientist with the Cloud and Cognitive Software Group at IBM. He is also a prolific author and speaker, and he […]

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Understanding Common AI Myths On today’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall discusses a common AI myth with AI thought leader, Sarah Alt. Sarah is the founder and CEO of the Ethical AI Consortium, a nonprofit membership organization of industry partners, institutions of higher education, and professionals who are dedicated to the awareness […]

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Reduce Stress and Burnout with Laughter Yoga In this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we are talking to Jenna Pascual. Jenna is a certified Laughter Yoga leader, yoga teacher, and life coach based in San Francisco. She discovered Laughter Yoga after being diagnosed with repetitive stress syndrome from working at tech startups for […]

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Now more than ever, it is time to embrace inclusive leadership. 70% of Executives now say that diversity and inclusion are important issues to them, and 67% of job seekers say a diverse workforce is important when considering a job offer. Leadership should be inherently inclusive at all times, tapping into the vast resources of […]

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What will it take to create a truly inclusive workplace today? How can leaders step up now to understand and improve the current and future state of work. In this episode, our host, Jenn DeWall, continues to explore the issue of diversity, equity, and inclusion in a conversation with Alicia Jessip, Inclusion and Diversity Manager […]

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Bias in the workplace affects us all. 70% of Executives now agree that diversity and inclusion is an important issue, and 67% of job seekers say a diverse workforce is important when considering a job offer.  Bias in the workplace can cause an increased turnover and reduce productivity. In fact, highly inclusive companies see 1.4 […]

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Hacking Your Biased Brain In this week’s episode, The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall talks with diversity and inclusion expert Maureen “Mo” Berkner Boyt, who’s the founder of The Moxie Exchange. Maureen spent over 25 years helping organizations grow by creating more inclusive workplaces where talented people can thrive. People around the world are using […]

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In this special minisode, The Leadership Habit host, Jenn DeWall shares her tips for embracing a growth mindset to strengthen you resilience as a leader. Full Transcript Below   Embrace a Growth Mindset to Strengthen Your Resilience Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It’s Jenn DeWall, and I am so excited to bring you another minisode for […]

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Developing Resilience in Yourself and Your Team In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews Heather Younger about building resilience. Heather is the bestselling author of The 7 Intuitive Laws of Employee Loyalty, and the founder and CEO of Customer Fanatix. Heather is an Employee Loyalty and Leadership Evangelist. In this episode, […]

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In this special minisode, The Leadership Habit host, Jenn DeWall, shares her top 7 tips to build a more resilient team. In the face of the unforeseen challenges with COVID-19 and the economic fallout from the pandemic, it is more important than ever to foster resilience in yourself and others. Full Transcript Below   7 […]

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On today’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews Marilyn Sherman, the founder of Front Row Leadership, a hall of fame speaker and author. All over the world, we are all going through a tremendous amount of change.  Join Jenn DeWall and Marilyn Sherman as they discuss how leaders can support our organization […]

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Conscious Leadership with Kaley Warner Klemp In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews Kaley Warner Klemp, who is a highly sought after speaker, certified Young President’s Organization (YPO) Forum Facilitator, and transformational executive coach. Kaley advises senior executives on how to uncover and address core challenges, provides them with proven tools […]

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Finding Your Everyday Innovator Style with Tamara Ghandour In today’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall sat down with author, speaker, and founder and president of Launch Street, Tamara Ghandour to discuss being and everyday innovator and her newest book, Innovation is Everybody’s Business. Innovation is Everybody’s Business is for those looking for […]

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Meet Productivity Expert Neen James Jenn DeWall:   Hi everyone, Jenn DeWall here, and on this week’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, I was lucky enough to interview Neen James. Now for those that don’t know Neen, she is a leadership expert who delivers high energy keynote presentations that challenge audiences to leverage their focus […]

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Workplace Culture with Undercover Employee and Leadership Expert, Nora Burns What would you learn about workplace culture and leadership if you stepped out of the executive suite and out to the front lines and mopped the floors, stocked the shelves, or made the deliveries? Nora Burns, a leading expert in leadership and workplace culture, did […]

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Leadership During Coronavirus In this episode, Jenn DeWall talks about leadership during coronavirus with Crestcom leadership trainer and facilitator, Abdulrahman Edrees.  He received his degree from ASPU in Jordan. He began his training and facilitation journey at IKEA Saudi Arabia in 2008, where he was one of the key employees in their HR department. He […]

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Virtual Leadership in the New Normal In today’s episode, Jenn DeWall talks to Dave Lawrence, President of Apogee Leadership, a Crestcom franchise. Apogee works with over 30 small mid-market and fortune 500 companies to develop critical management skills and train leaders in areas like effective communication, developing people, managing change, problem-solving and strategic thinking. He […]

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The Six Keys to Success with Karl Mecklenburg In today’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews former Denver Broncos Captain and All-Pro linebacker Karl Mecklenburg. Karl Mecklenburg rose from being a college walk-on, and a 12th round draft picks to a pro career that included six pro-bowls and three Super Bowls. Considered […]

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Grow Your Sales and Influence with Merit Kahn In this episode of the Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews Merit Kahn. Merit has more than 20 years of sales, sales management, coaching, training, consulting, writing, and speaking experience. She has worked with thousands of clients across multiple industries, with one goal in mind: grow sales […]

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Learning from Failure at Work with Tamara Ghandour In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we’re continuing our work fail series because we know that if we’re working, we’re likely making mistakes, and it’s important not to live there but to learn from failure along the way. Jenn DeWall interviews Tamara Ghandour, the author, […]

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The Future of Leadership, Technology and the Workplace with Futurist, Thomas Frey In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn De Wall interviews Thomas Frey, founder of the DaVinci Institute. For those that don’t know Thomas, he’s a futurist and considered Google’s top-rated futurist speaker and is IBM’s most award-winning engineer. Over the past […]

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On today’s episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, we’re continuing our “Work Fail” series because we know that we all make mistakes at work. And it’s important not to dwell on that, but to learn from it. So we interviewed Marilyn Sherman, founder of Front Row Leadership, Hall of Fame speaker and author of our […]

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In this episode, our host, Jenn DeWall speaks with Dr. Tyrone Holmes, a professional speaker, consultant, and author. Dr. Holmes teaches about diversity and inclusion and how to connect with others to reduce unconscious bias. Full Transcript Below Jenn DeWall: Hi everyone. It is Jenn DeWall, and I am so excited to interview Dr. Tyrone […]

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In this minisode of The Leadership Habit, we turn the tables on our fearless host, Jenn DeWall and let our Video Specialist, Christian Wearly interview her about her career missteps and work fails. Listen in as they discuss lessons Jenn learned the hard way early in her career! Jenn DeWall:                      Hi everyone, it’s Jenn […]

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On today’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn speaks with ethics expert Amanda Jo Erven, who goes by Jo. Amanda is the president and founder of Audit. Consulting. Education. LLC. During today’s episode, we discuss her newest book, Our Choices on the Road to Life. This episode is a favorite because the importance of […]

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Work Fails with Video Specialist Christian Wearly In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast continues our newest minisode series, Work Fails. We’ve all had experiences when things did not go as planned in the workplace, but people don’t talk about it. Great leaders know that failure is a part of life and eventual success […]

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On today’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews Daniel Kasper, the CEO of wishlist rewards. During the episode, Dan shares how Wishlist Rewards is changing the way organizations recognize and reward employees to offer more meaningful and experiential rewards to valued employees. Daniel Kasper, CEO of Wishlist Rewards Jenn DeWall:   Hi everyone. […]

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we continue our newest minisode series, Work Fails. We’ve all had experiences when things did not go as planned in the workplace, but people don’t talk about it. Great leaders know that failure is a part of life, and eventual success depends on how we handle the […]

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Meet Tamara Ghandour, Everyday Innovator In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn DeWall sits down with author, speaker and founder and president of Launch Street, Tamara Ghandour. Tamara shares her insight as an innovation expert on the four traps of certainty that leaders and organizations fall into that jeopardize innovation efforts. I’ve found […]

The post Episode 19: Everyday Innovation with Tamara Ghandour appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Work Fails: What to do When You Make Mistakes at Work On today’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we are going to be continuing our “Work Fails” series. We are interviewing Emily Hastings, who is the Executive Assistant to Crestcom’s CEO. She has a background in the hospitality industry, specifically both restaurants and hotels […]

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Kelly Swanson – Business Storytelling Speaker In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn DeWall interviews Kelly Swanson. Kelly is an award-winning storyteller, speaker, author, and comedian. Kelly’s wacky wit and powerful stories have charmed hearts and tickled funny bones for over 15 years. In addition to her role as a funny motivational speaker, […]

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The Leadership Habit Podcast Minisode Series: Work Fails Hi everyone, it’s Jenn DeWall and I am so excited to announce that The Leadership Habit Podcast is starting a new series of minisodes about Work Fails, Work Fails! We’ve all had experiences when things did not go as planned in the workplace, but people don’t talk […]

The post Minisode 1: Work Fails with guest Jenny Bridges appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Finding Success in 2020 Happy New Year! We are excited to be in 2020 and know you have plans and goals for everything you want to accomplish to make sure that the year is meaningful and successful for you! To support you in that goal, on today’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we’re talking […]

The post Episode 17: S.E.A.T. of Success with Marilyn Sherman appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Customer Service and The Convenience Revolution with Shep Hyken This December, The Leadership Habit Podcast has been taking a look back at our first season and reflecting on all we’ve discussed so far. We picked out some of our favorite episodes from the past year to share with you. I hope you enjoy this look […]

The post The Leadership Habit Podcast: A Look Back at 2019 – The Convenience Revolution with Shep Hyken appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Andy Bounds – Sales, Love and Enjoyment The Leadership Habit Podcast has been taking a look back at our first season and reflecting on all we’ve discussed so far. We picked out some of our favorite episodes from the past year to share with you. I hope you enjoy this look back and can’t wait […]

The post The Leadership Habit Podcast: A Look Back at 2019 – Sales, Love and Enjoyment with Andy Bounds appeared first on Crestcom International.

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The Best of 2019: Legendary Career Coach, Aimee Cohen In December, The Leadership Habit Podcast will be taking a look back at our first season and reflecting on all we’ve discussed so far. We picked out some of our favorite episodes from the past year to share with you. I hope you enjoy this look […]

The post The Leadership Habit Podcast: A Look Back at 2019 – Legendary Career Coach, Aimee Cohen appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Love is Just Damn Good Business – A Look Back at our conversation with Steve Farber   This December, The Leadership Habit Podcast will be taking a look back at our first season and reflecting on all we’ve discussed so far. We picked out some of our favorite episodes from the past year to share […]

The post The Leadership Habit Podcast: A Look Back at 2019 – Love is Just Damn Good Business appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Multi-generational Leadership Featuring Stephanie McCauley, Millennial On today’s episode of the leadership habit podcast, we are concluding our multi-generational leadership series by talking with Millennial, Stephanie McCauley. Stephanie is a trainer and consultant and the founder of Unbenched, a Millennial community of likeminded adults with the mission to build a strong community that empowers each […]

The post Episode 16: Multi-Generational Leadership featuring Stephanie McCauley, Millennial appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Gen X and Multi-Generational Leadership On today’s episode of the leadership habit podcast, we are continuing our generational leadership series and talking with Steve Born. Steve is the VP of marketing for Globus family of brands. In today’s episode, Steve shares his insights as a leader and member of Gen X, and how he’s adjusted […]

The post Episode 15: Multi-Generational Leadership Featuring Steve Born, Gen Xer appeared first on Crestcom International.

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Baby Boomers and Multi-Generational Leadership In today’s episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, we are continuing our multi-generational leadership series taking a closer look at Baby Boomers, Gen Xers, and Millennials in the workforce today. We are talking with Baby Boomer, Jim Lopresti, president of CohereUS consulting and professor at the University of Colorado Denver […]

The post Episode 14: Multi-Generational Leadership Featuring Jim Lopresti, Baby Boomer appeared first on Crestcom International.

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The Leadership Habit Podcast is excited to launch a new special series of episodes focusing on leadership in the multi-generational workforce. Over the next few weeks, we’ll be interviewing Millennials, Gen Xers and Boomers to find out what challenges they face, what stereotypes they deal with, and understand how we can all work together more […]

The post Episode 13: Multi-Generational Leadership Featuring Manny Martinez, Gen Xer appeared first on Crestcom International.

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The Leadership Habit Podcast is excited to launch a new special series of episodes focusing on the multi-generational workforce. Over the next few weeks, we’ll be interviewing Millennials, Gen Xers and Boomers to find out what challenges they face, what stereotypes they deal with, and understand how we can all work together more effectively. Our […]

The post Episode 12: Multi-Generational Leadership Featuring Tyler Jones, Millennial appeared first on Crestcom International.

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit Podcast, Jenn Dewall talks to Mark Sanborn. Mark is the president of Sanborn and Associates, which is an idea studio dedicated to developing leaders in business and in life. Mark is an international bestselling author, keynote leadership speaker and noted expert on team building, customer service, and change. […]

The post Episode 11: The Intention Imperative with Mark Sanborn appeared first on Crestcom International.

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In this episode we interview innovation expert and speaker, Stephen Shapiro. Stephen cultivates innovation by showing leaders and their teams how to approach, tackle, and solve their business challenges. Applying the knowledge he has accrued over decades in the industry, Stephen is able to see what others can’t, opportunities to improve innovation models and the […]

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit podcast, Jenn Dewall talks to Crestcom faculty member, bestselling author, speaker, and President of Extreme Leadership Inc., Steve Farber. Steve Farber is a subject matter expert in business leadership and one of Inc. Magazine’s global top 50 leadership experts. Steve is here to talk about his newest book, […]

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The post Episode 8: Sales, Love and Enjoyment with Andy Bounds appeared first on Crestcom International.

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About Aimee Cohen In this episode of The Leadership Habit, we talk to keynote speaker, elite career coach, and bestselling author, Aimee Cohen. Aimee has coached hundreds of clients for more than 20 years with the near 100% success rate. She empowers professional men and women to take control and manage their careers like a […]

The post Episode 7: Take Charge of Your Career with Legendary Career Coach Aimee Cohen appeared first on Crestcom International.

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In this episode, Jenn DeWall talks to Customer Service expert and Chief Amazement Officer, Shep Hyken. Shep is a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author and has been inducted into the National Speakers Association Hall of Fame for lifetime achievement in the speaking profession. Shep is also a Crestcom Faculty Member featured […]

The post Episode 6: Customer Service and The Convenience Revolution with Shep Hyken appeared first on Crestcom International.

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In this episode, Jenn DeWall talks to leadership expert Ron Crossland about the role of Innovative Thinking in Leadership. Ron has over 30 years of experience in the field doing both original and secondary research and has helped develop better leaders, create more innovation, forge better internal and external relationships and inspire greater performance in […]

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In this episode, Jenn DeWall talks to Simon T. Bailey, Crestcom faculty member, author and Breakthrough Strategist.  Simon is one of America’s top 10 most-booked speakers on change, leadership, and customer experience. He’s shared his wisdom on cultural transformation, personal and professional leadership development, relationship building, and creating platinum service opportunities across six continents. Join us […]

The post Episode 4: Shift Your Brilliance with Simon T. Bailey appeared first on Crestcom International.

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In this episode of The Leadership Habit, we will be focusing on the topic of Change Management. We interviewed L. Bonita Patterson, the founder, and CEO of a company called Polaris Consulting. Bonita specializes in people optimization and organizational change. She joins us today to share her knowledge and experience on the topic of change […]

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In Episode 2 of our podcast, our host, Jenn DeWall speaks with talent management expert Kathleen Quinn Votaw. She is the president and founder of Talentrust. Talentrust is revolutionizing how companies find, keep and grow great people. After nearly two decades of earning accolades in the staffing industry, Kathleen determined that traditional models don’t always […]

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On our premiere episode of The Leadership Habit, Leadership Development Strategist, Jenn DeWall, talks to the CEO who authored the book The Leadership Habit, Tammy Berberick. Tammy tells us about the exciting mission of Crestcom International to develop stronger, more ethical leaders all around the world. She talks about common challenges facing CEOs today, and how they […]

The post Episode 1: Introduction to Tammy Berberick, CEO of Crestcom International appeared first on Crestcom International.