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Pride brings out many people trying to show their support for the LGBTQ+ community and an interesting conversation about how churches show up at Pride inspired this week’s episode. In this conversation, we explore the role of churches supporting and engaging with the LGBTQ community during Pride Month. We have some practical insight on how churches can show genuine involvement, service, and inclusivity, while showing up meaningfully at Pride events and beyond.

Takeaways

Pride Month is celebrated globally, creating a sense of connection among queer individuals.
Churches should actively participate in Pride events to show support for the LGBTQ community.
Involvement should be led by queer and trans individuals within the church community.
Churches must avoid centering themselves and instead focus on the needs of the queer community.
Aesthetic presentation at Pride events matters; churches should invest in their displays.
Service and support should be prioritized over recruitment at Pride events.
Churches can provide tangible support, such as water stations for marchers.
Engagement with the queer community should extend beyond Pride Month.
Ongoing education and training are essential for creating inclusive church environments.
Churches should explore diverse ways to incorporate queer culture into their programming.

Chapters

(00:56) Churches and Their Role in Pride Events

(04:00) Guiding Principles for Religious Groups at Pride

(07:08) Tangible Support and Service to the Queer Community

(10:02) Engaging with the Community Beyond Pride Month

(12:59) Creating Inclusive Spaces Year-Round

(15:56) Ongoing Education and Awareness for Inclusivity

(19:10) Broader Engagement with Queer Culture

(22:07) Building Lasting Relationships with the Community

Resources:.

Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Tips for Churches at Pride appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Communities can be complex. We delve into the complexities of relationships, the nature of goodness, and the challenges of community dynamics. We explore the idea of labeling people as “good” or “bad,” and emphasize the importance of understanding inherent goodness and the health of individuals. We also touch on the necessity of boundaries within communities and the role of compassion in navigating difficult relationships. Ultimately, we are advocates for a nuanced approach to community building and self-reflection, and encourage y’all to embrace the complexities of human interactions.

Takeaways

The distinction between good and bad people is not helpful.
Everyone imagines themselves as the good person in their narrative.
Understanding inherent goodness can help navigate complex relationships.
Communities should create spaces for health and healing.
Boundaries are essential for maintaining healthy relationships.
It’s important to differentiate between beliefs and actions in community dynamics.
Compassion for others can coexist with the need for boundaries.
Self-reflection is crucial in understanding our impact on others.
Navigating relationships with family can be particularly complex.
Embracing the gray areas of life can lead to healthier communities.

Chapters

(00:00) Exploring Relationships and Polarization

(07:00) Understanding Goodness and Health

(13:57) Navigating Community and Boundaries

(20:51) Compassion and Complexity in Relationships

Resources:.

Join the Queerness Everyday Challenge
Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Complicated Communities appeared first on Queer Theology.

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It’s Pride month and we’re sharing some of our thoughts about it in this week’s episode. There are a lot of complexities with Pride Month and we especially want to explore the dual nature of celebration and resistance within the LGBTQ community. With recent funding cuts to arts organizations, the challenges of sustaining movements without corporate support, and the importance of balancing joy with activism, it can seem like there isn’t much to celebrate. But sometimes you have to mix that joy with the hard work and really lean into community engagement.

Takeaways

Pride Month embodies both joy and exclusion.
Funding cuts to arts organizations threaten queer activism.
The nonprofit industrial complex complicates funding for movements.
Local and small-scale initiatives are crucial for sustainability.
Joy can be a form of resistance against oppression.
Celebration and activism can coexist meaningfully.
Spirituality provides grounding for activism and community.
Historical context enriches our understanding of current movements.
Art and community are essential for resilience.
Collective joy fuels the fight for justice.

Highlights:

(02:25) The Impact of Funding Cuts on Arts and Activism

(05:41) The Complexity of Funding Movements

(08:02) Balancing Joy and Resistance in Activism

(12:45) The Dual Nature of Pride: Celebration vs. Resistance

(16:18) Spirituality and Activism: Finding Balance

Resources:.

Join the Queerness Everyday Challenge
Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how Tuning each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. All right, y’all. It is June 1st. It is the first day of L LGBTQ Pride Month, and there’s a lot going on in the world and with pride and in our little brains, and I’m sure in your brains and in your hearts, and we, as we were getting ready to record, we just we’re like noticing that there are like lots of truths that are all true at the same time.

00:00:54That like, for many of us, pride month is a time of joy and Celebration and inclusion and sort of like festivities and partying. It’s also true that for many of us, pride is a place where we have felt excluded or unsafe or unseen for. It’s also true that like corporations have been sort of throwing money at Pride to sort of use the LGB, the LGBTQ community as consumers and to sort of get us to buy their business. And maybe there’s this sort of pinkwashing and corporate washing of pride that’s like not great. It’s also true that lots of corporations pulling out all their support from L-G-B-T-Q people and organizations is not a great sign.

00:01:38It’s also true that Pride got its start over 50 years ago as a remembrance of the Stonewall Rebellion uprising. It’s a protest march. So there’s like this history of, of resistance that is part of pride. It’s also true that pride oftentimes features artists and musicians and creative types of all sorts that like come together to create beautiful political soothing, subversive, entertaining art. And that was all sort of like swirling around in our heads as we’re like getting ready to head into pride month and thinking about like, what does Pride Month mean now this year in 2025 with everything we’ve got going on in our local lives, in the USA globally with the arts, with the police, with the government, with immigration, like, it all just feels like so like ripe.

00:02:38And so we’re, we don’t have an outline today. We’re just gonna dive in. And so, so sheiks we’re like, where’s your like, head out? Like what are you excited about? Worried about holding onto, like as we head into Pride month? Yeah, yeah. You know, as you were talking about artists, I, I was thinking a lot about all of the cancellation of the NEA grants, which happened, you know, yeah, a little, little close to a month ago as, as this is coming out, but which as we’re recording is very fresh. I’m on the board of an arts organization that lost their funding.

00:03:20Another organization that has been a huge support to me in the past lost their funding two weeks before the conference that it was supposed to fund began. And it’s just like, you know, this is money that was promised to these organizations. So they planned their budgets around it and they’ve been doing their programming and now, you know, all of that is in question. And lots and lots of these organizations are, are supporting queer and trans folks. Some of them are specifically and explicitly queer and trans led. And so, you know, that’s, that’s really concerning. And, and there’s this kind of narrative, I think in some of these organizations of like, well, donors will step up and, and fill that gap.

00:04:09And, and for many of these organizations, I do think that that is true. That, right? Like individual donors will step up and and close the gap. And also that’s complicated, right? Because what if you’re a scrappy queer tramp organization that doesn’t have donors that can step up and write thousands upon thousands of dollar checks, like, then what do you do? And I think that that is always the complicated nature of philanthropy. Yeah. And it’s also right, the complicated nature of grant making where we can see a granting organizations quote unquote priorities change in this case with a message that was clearly written by AI and is incomprehensible and coming from the government.

00:04:57But, you know, we’ve seen this in, in other places in the, in the past even with corporate sponsorships where for a long time, target, for instance, really cared about education and then Target stopped caring about education and all of these organizations like went sideways. Anyway. So I thinking about all of that, but it, it, the thing that is underneath all of that is like, how do we fund the movements that allow us to do the things that a, make life worth living? Like I think that art and artists are what, what make life interesting, but also like how do we fund, for lack of a better word, the revolution, right?

00:05:37And it’s, and it’s not, it, it’s not target, right? Target, target, the revolution will not be funded by Target and Bezos and et cetera, et cetera. So like thinking through, which Also feels like a very, sorry, which also feels like a very Christian early Christian question, right? Of like, yes, this like scrappy early church movement. I’m thinking about like doing sort of revolutionary subversive work and like how do, like how do they keep it going and fund the people who are sort of not working at fisherman because they’re working, doing, being community organizers. Yeah. Which, you know, as, and as you were talking about, right? I was also thinking about like the early Christian movement and how it did start as a protest movement and how that too, in, in many ways, like pride got commodified and became corporately funded and became organized in a way that Right, in some ways has been really helpful and useful and in other ways has really like taken, taken the wind out of the sails of the movement.

00:06:40And I think that that is, that’s so complex and it’s so complicated, right? Because there, there are ways in which churches as organizations or as denominations have been able to do really cool things because they banded together and they funded really cool things, right? Like organizations that have built affordable housing or created food pantries or whatever. And also like that is complex as well. I, I’ve been thinking a lot. I, I read Dean Spade has this really great small book on mutual aid, and one of the things that I really appreciated in that book is that he talks a lot about how, he talks a lot about like how in some ways dangerous the nonprofit industrial complex is.

00:07:33But his big takeaway is that it, we have to be thinking more small and more locally. And I think that that is one of the things that is, that is really on my mind and heart as we think about all of this, right? Like Ashley was saying the other day, like, yeah, we’re gonna need a lot more artists who can just like, create and make things where they are and it’ll be scrappy and it’ll be messy and it’ll be in found spaces. And and a friend of ours at the table was like, yeah, and, and no one’s gonna get paid for that. Like, we’re going backwards. And it’s like, yeah, you know what, probably yes. And that is also I think, yeah, organizing, right?

00:08:15Like the, the professionalization of everything where we have to get paid to do, to show up is like, I think a problem. And one of the, the things that we’re really gonna have to like figure out moving forward. So those are some of my initial messy thoughts. Does that spark anything for you? Yeah, I think all of that sparks something in me, you know, And I I I think to get a little personal, like we feel that tension here at this work we do@cardiology.com, right? Where it’s like The time that we spend on this project is like time that we can’t be spending, like earning a living elsewhere, but also, like, we also can’t always count on or trust or expect to be able to earn like a full living from this work.

00:09:03And so we’re constantly working multiple jobs in addition to the work that we do here to make ends meet. And so sort of like scrapping it together And I would like, I would love for this to be like my day job, right? Like that would be Yeah, fantastic. Like, and also it’s like not currently, And I, you can also see like the, the, the, the times in which we’re like more supported by the people who listen to the podcast or consume our resources or use our resources at their churches or buy our books or whatever. Like the more, the more like the more we’re able, the more time we’re then able to spend here doing this work. And in the times where for whatever reasons, like we get less support from the community that, that, that’s okay.

00:09:46There’s like no judgment on that, but like it also then means we have to spend more time doing other types of work, which then like pulls us away from this work. And so there’s this sort of like, like, yes. And like, it’s like maybe like not a bad thing, quote unquote, like that not everything is professionalized. Like, and also it does mean there’s just like less time to do stuff and sometimes like less quality or to, to your point, like less reach. Like there is something about like an economy of scale that like bigger organizations or groups of people, collectives are able to accomplish more sometimes than because there’s just like less redundancies. It’s like, how do you That’s true. But also we, we don’t wanna dehumanize everything and make it like the most efficient thing possible Right.

00:10:28And gonna be responsive to local needs. So I like, so that’s sort of like, yeah. So I’m just like, I, yeah, I feel all of that. And I, And I feel like that that is also like attention with clergy too, right? There there is, yeah. There was this push for a while of like, well, clergy shouldn’t be making their money from the church because if they are being paid by the church, A they like can’t be prophetic in the way that they can if like, like they weren’t relying on the church for their income or like b churches could do more if they weren’t having to pay insurance and retirement packages and full-time, you know, salaries for clergy. Yeah. But then the, the trade off of that is like, yes, but then if your pastor is working a nine to five and you have an emergency, they can’t just like leave their nine to five to come be at the hospital with you.

00:11:17Right? Yeah. Or like if they have to work, you know, Sunday and prep a sermon and they also have to work 40 hours a week, like you’re gonna get the sermon that they can write in their evenings and weekends. Right? Like it’s just a different Yeah. Type of thing. And that I, I think for some people that works, for some communities that work, but I think also like to your point about scale, like that doesn’t work for everyone and it, and, and or the people whom it does work for, like have they, they have other privileges, right? Like it can’t probably work for the mom of three kids, especially not for a single mom of three kids, right?

00:12:03It’s probably not gonna work for the trans person with no family support, right? Like it’s, we expect that there will be other things in place and that just gets really, really complicated. Yeah. It just, it gets to it like when art or ministry like isn’t funded, it just makes it so that rich people and people with like generational wealth are the ones that have the easiest time at doing those things. And so then, then also then like informs the art that gets created in the ministries that get started and like, you know, we see the terrible, terrible evangelicals are able to like run Super Bowl ads, right?

00:12:44And yeah, and like the, the like trans lifeline is not because like of funding priorities, right? So that’s all. Yep, yep, yep, yep. I’m also just like sort of thinking about like the tension between like pride as like resistance and pride as Celebration. And I don’t think that they actually, like those two things are like necessarily opposites. Yeah. I think that especially for queer people, I think like queer, like one of the beauties of queerness right? Is that we sort of like, we turn like oppression into camp and we like dance and we like laugh at like as we organize and resist and like the Celebration sometimes Celebration I think like can also be a form of resistance in and of itself to say like, yeah, like life is hard.

00:13:40Like, and also you’re like, not gonna steal my joy. And, And I, And I think like, so I think it comes down to like, a lot of it is like intentionality, right? Because like you can sort of have like a frivolous celebratory, let’s all just get drunk all month long go to brunches and this amazing, right? And like, it that’s like, not necessarily like resistible, but like if you can sort of like celebrate, keep your eyes wide open at, at, at the horrors that we’re sort of living through. Like, and also choose not to, not to turn away from that and hide from that, but just sort of like to dance in defiance of that feels important. And then also like how do you like organize such that like, it’s not just Celebration that you’re also like taking it into action outside of the dance floor.

00:14:29I’m like thinking about like, right, right now the scene, I think it was in a movie, but like in the like eighties I presume, or like maybe the nineties, like a gay men health crisis would host like these like big fundraisers to like support people living with hiv aids like in the, like the gay clubs, the gay bars. And so places where like they used to just sort of like drink and dance and had night away they were still drinking and dancing the night away, but now they were raising money to get food or medication or they were like organizing information sessions outta these like same like dance halls and gay bars. And so like, it feels like, like I want it to be like a yes and of like, I don’t, it doesn’t, if we, if we like, if we stop, if we erase all of the joy from our lives, there’s like no point in living and they’ve already won.

00:15:17Right. And also like if we, if we just sort of tune out and try and drown our sorrows and get drunk and only dance the night away, like things will just continue to get worse for us until we all die. And so like, we, like it can’t be either of those extremes. And so I’m, I’m thinking a lot about like, how do I cultivate joy while like that that turns into like resilience that like fuels the resistance as opposed to like either burning myself out with hardness and sadness or just sort of like sticking my head in the sand. And so like I’m, that’s sort of like the energy that I’m trying to bring into pride 2025 of like dance in the streets and like march in the streets and like throw dinner parties with your friends and also like host mutual aid, like groups with your friends and get to know your neighbors so that you can like bring them food when they need them.

00:16:11And also like, so you can talk to ’em about local citywide elections, you know, it’s, it’s like, it’s all, it feels all swirling together and sometimes like easier said than done. Yeah. It it that I feel like we also talked about those exact same things when we talked about worship and, and ritual, right? That like, it’s the same thing of like if you’re, if your worship and your engagement with spiritual practice is just about comfort and safety and warmth, then like you’re missing something really, really crucial. But also if it’s always about like ex extend yourself and go, go, go and resistance and resistance and resistance, like you, you, that’s not like not sustainable for the long term.

00:16:55You need some fuel there. And so that there, there’s something in the, like in the mix of being able to find comfort and peace and safety and grounding in your spiritual practice. That is the thing that like connects you to the world and inspires you to go out and to do things and take, engage in justice work. And so like, you know, I think that these connections, like all of the connections that we talk about in queerness, like this is, I think this is also like why faith? Why this, this intersection between faith and queerness is like, yeah, so important and so special because like it gives us a grounding to talk about these things and, and it gives us an even an even deeper history to tap into right there, there is a history in both of, in both of these spaces, but like we might miss that history and tapping into that history if we’re just thinking about the here and now.

00:17:53Yeah. And you know, I’m, I was also just struck right now about like, about whether it’s like joy or Celebration or partying, whether it’s pride or whether it’s worship. Like it’s not just like, so that we don’t burn out and are able to like keep doing their work. I think that there’s also like a spiritual element here that that, that you’re keying into, like Christians might call it like the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. Like Jews might call it like the world’s of come Ola Haba, right? Like that like there are these sort of like glimpses of what is like not yet fully here, but like in this moment we could see like how it could be and it like reminds us of like, oh yes, like another way is possible. Like we can do more of this.

00:18:34Like, this is worth fighting to protect and nurture and kindle because like this little thing that we’re seeing here, whether it’s like, I don’t know, man, like I wish people could go back in time and go to the Philadelphia Transgender Health Conference in like 2011, right? Like, that felt like a vision of a world, of the world to come that was like worth like fighting and protecting, protecting or like a really like, like subversive inspiring like drag show that like makes you see the world in a new way or like a powerful sermon or just like that feeling of community that you feel and you’re like with your like queer chosen family, right? Like over a shared meal. There’s like these like moments where you’re like, oh, like this is, like, this was what, like makes worth life worth living And I want everyone to experience this and how can we sort of like fight for this specific thing and also continue to like, make it bigger and more widespread so that like everyone gets a taste of it.

00:19:28

Amen. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post Celebration & Resistance: Let’s Talk About Pride Month! appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re exploring the multifaceted nature of prayer by reflecting on our personal journeys and our evolving understanding of spirituality. There are so many emotional complexities tied to prayer. It can be powerful and so connective to community when we really look at it. And when you are able to queer prayer, this can help break down boundaries and really let you reimagine what prayer can do.

Takeaways

Shannon shares his evolving journey with prayer.
Prayer can be a means of personal transformation.
The emotional impact of prayer can linger long after beliefs change.
Community plays a crucial role in spiritual practices.
Collective prayer can create real-world change.
The allure of traditional prayer can be comforting but also damaging.
Engaging with diverse prayers can expand one’s spiritual practice.
It’s important to reflect on the theologies we carry.
Building community requires intentional action and vulnerability.
It’s never too late to form meaningful connections.

Chapters

(03:46) Revisiting Prayer and Theology

(06:35) The Emotional Landscape of Prayer

(09:44) Community and Collective Prayer

(12:36) The Allure and Challenges of Prayer

(15:24) Expanding Notions of Prayer

(18:36) The Power of Shared Experiences

(21:34) Building Community Through Prayer

(24:42) The Role of Action in Spirituality

(27:34) Invitation to Connection and Growth

Resources:.

Join the Queerness Everyday Challenge
Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from Genesis, revelation, the Bible declare good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how tuning Each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Queer Theology Podcast. We are excited to talk about Queering Prayer today. I feel like, I don’t know about you, Brian, but I have had a journey with prayer over the course of my life of different Yeah. Like ways that I believed prayer worked or didn’t work, or how it made me feel or didn’t make me feel.

00:00:56And I’ve been, I’ve been working with, with some folks lately who have a very different view of prayer than I currently do, but it’s very similar to the view that I grew up with, which is making me like, I don’t know, revisit some, some thoughts on prayer. And so thought this would be interesting. So I, I, I’ll, I’ll start by sharing, you know, like I grew up in a tradition that really believed that prayer worked, and it was everything from like praying that God would make it sunny on the day of our, like church picnic to God would provide a parking spot to, like, prayer would make God forgive us our sins and, and get us into heaven.

00:01:40And so it was very and Really quickly, like not to be too like pedantic, but like you, I already have questions. Like you said, we believe that prayer worked, right? Like, And I feel like a lot is hanging on and maybe, maybe I’ll get to that, but like I look a lot is hanging on the word worked. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was this sense of like, you, you prayed and you asked for things and God would do it, but that, and then even when it, like you didn’t get the answer that you wanted, God was still doing something right. It was this very like, twisted logic around. It was Like, God, the answer is he God always answers. It’s just like, yes, no, or not yet. Yeah, exactly. A line I Got and, but I, there was like a, there was both a safety in that right, of like, of feeling like you were heard and believing that God listened to every single prayer.

00:02:33There was also a sense of like, I don’t know, sometimes whatever the solution was did feel like a miraculous intervention, right? Like I, I’ve heard so many stories of people being like, I needed exactly $500 And I prayed and like I ran into a stranger who offered me $500, right? It like God is, is actively working on our behalf. And so like I, I grew up with that and but also like baked underneath that for me was always the sense of fear that I wasn’t praying right? And not if I was praying too selfishly that God would not only not give me what I wanted but would gimme the opposite.

00:03:19And like there were times when that happened And I felt like I was being punished because I was like selfish with my prayers, yada, yada, yada. Flash forward a bunch of years to where I was like, prayer doesn’t work like that. We shouldn’t be praying like that. That’s like a bad, that’s bad theology. It’s bad theology of prayer. Like prayer isn’t to get God to change, it’s to get us to change. And that’s, I, I’m, but now I find myself kind of somewhere in the middle, right? Of like, I, I don’t know, like I don’t know entirely what prayer does. I don’t think that like we have to try to like convince God to give us things by begging in prayer.

00:04:03Like that is definitely not what I believe. But I do think that there’s something about like trying to tap into that which is bigger than us, that helps me like potentially reorient myself to what is already going on in the world. And, and sometimes I think it does like make me aware of things. It makes me pay attention in ways that I might otherwise miss. And then that sometimes feels like God is answering the prayer, right? Like I think that, you know, what’s that? There’s that old joke about a guy who’s like on a house and the yeah, the thing is flooding and a boat comes by and he doesn’t get in the boat and then whatever.

00:04:43And he finally is like, God, why didn’t you save me? And God’s like, well, I sent you a boat. I sent you a helicopter, right? Like, I sent you all these things and you weren’t paying attention. And I think that there’s like that to me, there’s something to that in prayer. All of that to say that I also then think that like as I’ve, as I’ve gotten more settled in my theology and my thinking, I also see a lot of things as prayer, right? Like there, there like music can be prayer and poetry can be prayer and liturgy is prayer and extemporaneous praying, right? Like just having a conversation with whoever is out there is prayer and, and so is like swearing, right?

00:05:28Like all of all of these different things, like all of this can be prayer. And so like that too, I, I think has, has led me to a more expansive, And I think that is where like queerness feels like it comes in of like, I can, I can pray and engage bodily in prayer and because I’m queer and trans like that automatically queers and trans is my right. Like all of all On prayer from me. Yeah. There’s like, like a blurring of boundaries and binary shown sort of like what is prayer? Yeah. It also reminds me of that like, you know, I wanna sing that’s, it’s that song.

00:06:08It’s probably like Michael W. Smith or Jar of Clay. It’s like, like, like breathing out and breathing in before we start again. You know, that song in it’s let us Pray. There’s, if you’re listening and you know what song I’m trying to get at, it’s like pray without ceasing. And, and now when you get to the end, let, let us start again. Like, like it is a, a very conservative Christian song about prayer, but there’s also like, I like, I think that also if what you’re talking about feels like very queer and also it’s like, I do think that, like, I would imagine, I don’t know, I would imagine like Pope Francis also sort of feels like he prays in in times other than just when he’s like on his knees holding his hands talking to God, right?

00:07:01That like, yeah, yeah. You like, you don’t, like, I think that queerness helps us to sort of like blur boundaries and break down binaries and forces us to reimagine this. Like, and also like, again, this is like what’s so beautiful Queer Theology, I think like everyone can, like everyone can sort of like queer prayer, reimagine prayer. I, I think like you, I’ve had a few phases of relating to prayer. I think like from childhood through, I don’t know, like somewhere around like 16, 18, I definitely had that sort of like there is a person that I call God, he dad, Abba, who is like listening can hear my thoughts.

00:07:41I don’t even have to speak them out loud, who can like hear my thoughts and will like do or not do or give or not give the things to me, right? Like, I don’t know, sometimes I wanna like ice cream for desert dessert and my parents were like, we don’t have ice cream. Like have a cookie. Like I can have a cookie, but at least my parents for me, like at least there is someone, even if I don’t get what I want, there’s like someone listening. And because I’m a Christian and I’ve accepted Jesus, this person like in general has my back. Even if I like don’t always understand it in the moment. That was like my like v version one of Brian Praise. And then I think like around 16, 70, 18, certainly by the time I was 18 And I went to college as I was like realizing ’cause I was queer and realizing that that wasn’t going away and realizing that I didn’t want it to go away, I sort of like moved into this sort of like, and it coincided with my shift to my understanding of God is for like more agnostic.

00:08:34Like, I don’t know, like, I don’t know, I don’t know like if there like is quote unquote God in quotes. Like, I don’t know, like if there is a God, if God is listening, I don’t know if God is granting or not grant anything. I just sort of like, I don’t know. And so sometimes I like wouldn’t pray at all or sometimes I would pray and just kind of like hope, like very stereotypically like, God, are you there? It’s me. I’d really like this. Or like, I mean my, in my co like 18th or 22, it was probably a lot of like, I think that it’s okay to be gay and so like that’s why I’m like dating or having sex, but like, if it’s not like I am listening, so like please just let me know and like I’ll, I’ll if I need to.

00:09:14But there was, I definitely spent a few years being like, I think I’m on the right track, but like, if you want me to stop being gay, like give me a sign, I guess. And then I think like you, I moved into this like version three, which was like there’s no one listening, no one’s granting us anything. It’s just about like, if you pray that God will solve poverty, like inspires you to like give away more of your money or feed the people in your neighborhood or organize for better policies. Like it’s like you alone, like you are praying to God ostensibly, but it’s about changing you individually. And I think now I don’t think that there’s like a conscious entity that is like listening to my words, like on a telephone, right?

00:10:04And I do think a lot of the change is happening within me, but I also kind of like, you think that like there’s some sort of like tapping into something and like, I don’t know, I don’t really think that there’s like vibrations that I’m tapping into. And if you think that there’s like, like there’s vibes like tap into tap into your vibes, right? But like, so I, I don’t know, like if you were saying it’s just sort of like I’m paying more attention and so I like notice things that I might not not have otherwise noticed or I say yes to things that I might not have otherwise said yes to, or I say no to things that I might not have otherwise said, said no to. I don’t know if it’s a, it like when I go in places that fuel prayerful, whether that is like a religious congregation or whether that’s like a community board meeting or a drag show.

00:10:50Like I’m surrounded by people who share values or worldviews and so like I’m more likely to then be able to be inspired by them or lean on them or be supported by them. But there does, like now I do feel like there’s something that changes within me, but there’s also something really powerful about praying together and I’m putting all that in quotes, right? Like that could be literally like at a church service or if you’re Christian or like in a minion if you’re Jewish, like saying a sort of traditional prayer. But like it could also be like, I don’t know, like sitting around our Josh’s hospital bed as he was dying and like looking through a scrapbook with our best friends and his parents and like reminiscing like and holding his hand and like that felt in some way prayerful or like, I’ve already used this example, but like being at like a drag show or a gay bar or having sex and like, is that worship or prayer or both?

00:11:51But like that there’s like something about the other people, this of it all that feels important. I know we were talking about this last week also, but there’s like this sort of like communal element to it that feels important that I really feel like only in the past few years have I connected sort of like the importance of community and like prayerfulness in particular. Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I keep thinking about, you know, going back to my old views of prayer where it’s like you’re asking for what you want and trusting God will give it to you and then, you know, rationalizing whatever answer you get.

00:12:32Yeah. Like I, I think about both the comfort of that, right? There is a real sense that you’ve got someone on your side and that It’s powerful and that, you know, miracles will happen. But I also just remember the feelings of like, well why did, why did God give that person the $500 that they need and not my family? Or, you know, why did that person get cured of their cancer? Someone from my family didn’t. And like how that has the theological and emotional power to, to like really destroy people, right?

00:13:15And a real sense of like, especially when it’s coupled with like, well maybe you didn’t pray hard enough or maybe you didn’t pray with the right attitude, or maybe God is trying to teach you a lesson or maybe you were living in sin and that’s why you didn’t get the things that, that you asked for. And I think that like, this is why it’s so, so, so important for us to like really examine the theologies that we carry with us and the beliefs and the ideas that we carry with us, right? Because like that emotional response to prayer lingered in me, in my body for a hell of a lot longer than like the intellectual belief about that type of prayer.

00:13:58Yeah. And so like, I think that that’s, it’s, it was so important to like do that work and I’m just like, I’m struck by because I’m, I’m hearing people talking about, about prayer in that kind of way, like every day these days. And I’m, I’m just, I’m struck by how the allure is still there, right? Like the allure of that kind of, especially when in moments when like the world is feeling out of control and my life is feeling a little all over the place. Like there’s, there’s a, there can be an impulse to be like, oh, well if I was just back in that space, everything would be clear and safe again.

00:14:42And I just have to keep reminding myself like, yes, and it’s so, so bad for you. So like, don’t, don’t do that. But, but I do think like, again, it becomes then an invitation to to also say like, what is it about that that was so attractive? And like where, where are the places in me that either I need to like continue to do work of healing so that I don’t need that and or where are the places in that I can like engage in that kind of like, in something that will meet that need or that emotional space in a way that is healthy and good and that like doesn’t take me down bad, terrible theological places that like do damage to my psyche.

00:15:27And so, and so I think that like, again, this is a, this is a thing you And I have say all the time, like the work doesn’t end right? Like you don’t eventually arrive at healed and whole and yeah. Like there’s no more work to do. And so like I think that this, like, we, we keep coming back to the things and things keep coming up for us. And so it again, like this is an invitation I think for me to like really reflect on what do I mean when I say prayer? What do I think I’m tapping into? What is the practice that is good and life giving and healthy and does lead toward wholeness? And how can I like really engage in that?

00:16:10And I think that this is why over the last couple of years, probably more like a decade, like I’ve really loved reading, written, written prayers by other people because there is something of, you know, when you talked about praying together, like whatever kind of air quotes we wanna put around that. But there is something about like, if we’re all using, if a bunch of people are like praying the liturgy, even though we’re not in the same room, we’re like still engaged in that practice together. And like we’re, we’re orienting ourselves, especially if we’re praying prayers of justice or for peace. I do think that that like does something in the world, right?

00:16:51Like if a bunch of people are orienting themselves toward envisioning a more peaceful world, committing to nonviolence or committing to being more loving toward one another like that is gonna make a, an actual physical difference in the world. Yeah. Whether we’re engaged in that practice physically together or like individually on our own. And I think it’s also an invitation to like expand our notions of whose prayers we’re reading, right? Like book of common prayer is great, but I also think that like, there’s a deep power in reading Col Arthur Riley’s Yeah.

00:17:32Black liturgy’s prayers or prayers from, I, I have this prayer book that was written by someone that I went to union with who like collects prayers and liturgies from all over the world. And like there’s something about reading prayers from like a poor community of people who fish for their, their livelihoods, right? Like from another country that me praying that prayer, even though I have a very different experience, like it orients me in a different way. And I think that there’s a real power in that. And like, this is a, this is a time when I wanna like tap into that more deeply.

00:18:13Yeah. I keep, I keep thinking about what you said a little while ago about sort of like the emotional response to prayer, right? And like you are intellectually reoriented before maybe you like totally emotionally reoriented and, and so like, you like intellectually didn’t believe that God was like giving that person $500 instead of you while you’re still like, can’t make rent this month. But like emotionally it felt like, oh, did I like do something wrong? And so I just like, I just wanna like go, I don’t know like go back and underline that. ’cause I’m, I bet you a lot of people can resonate with that. Yeah. And then, because I definitely went through that experience and for me there’s also like a second phase of like emotionalness where like, like when, when, when Josh was dying, like, which it’s, it’s still kind of fresh ’cause it was like f four, four years ago, like a month ago, two months ago, I both didn’t intellectually believe that God was curing some people with cancer and not his.

00:19:11And I also like emotionally did not feel that either, like he didn’t do anything wrong. And so, but like in the like two years before he died when it was like very clear that it was terminal and in the, like the six months after maybe like I was still, I had would have like an emotional reaction when people would talk about either before he died, like I’m praying for him, I’m praying for a miracle, like to hold out hope, like never give up. Like God can heal. I’d be like, you motherfucker, that’s not how it works. Because like body is withering away in real time. He has like three tubes coming up and it’s fucking terrible. Like how dare you? And then afterwards, like, don’t, you know, like, or when people would like, oh, like I prayed and like God cured my, my mom or me or my uncle.

00:20:00And I’d be like, that is fucking terrible theology. Like no, God didn’t like, I’d be like righteously angry. Like no God didn’t like, do you know what that says about like everyone in general and also particularly Josh, like, and now that it’s been four years, I think I can hear people say that and not get so emotionally activated, but I just like wanna name that like, even if you don’t believe in any five of you being that God is doing it, like you can still be sort of like trigger triggered, like activated about other people’s sort of like stuff around theology in general on prayer in particular. And I felt like I was like, I probably text you every single time someone said something like that to me.

00:20:40And I think like that was, that was like part of it, right? Was to like recognize sometimes I would like be a little bit short with people if they said it to me either in person or in real life. But I mostly when I try to like be like, you don’t mean it like that way. Like you don’t have any, anybody, these are the best tools that you have. Like I know that’s not how it works. Like that can be good enough. And I would just sort of be like, okay and move on and like send you a three paragraph text. But so like how, like, do you have places people who in your life who both are like on board with you emotionally, that you can be your whole vulnerable self with that you can like vent to your trust friends, so you’re not like taking it on a stranger.

00:21:21And you are also, I’m still stuck in this emotions and you were talking about like, it does sometimes feel like now that you’re around these people who are imagining porn, this like, god, like that does feel lovely. Like what if there was someone looking out for me? Like I think that we don’t have to feel bad if we think that sometimes, right? Like we don’t have to beat ourselves up for that. There’s like nothing wrong with it. It’s, it’s very human that like in a hard world to want someone even bigger and even more loving and even more powerful to have our back. And so like wouldn’t it be like, I don’t know, like wouldn’t it be nice like I think we can say like, wouldn’t it be nice if I could pray to God and like I just like really knew that God would like make my rent payment happen.

00:22:05Like maybe it will, but like maybe it won’t. Like, but I wish I had that certainty or, and I’m thinking also about just sort of like beyond prayer, like, like afterlife. Like I really don’t, I don’t think that I’m gonna ever get to like see Josh and talk to Josh again. Like, and sometimes it’s like nice to like, whether I say it to myself or to my journal or to my partner or to other friends who knew him, like, man, like fuck, like I wish he was here. Or like, I wish he was looking down. Like I don’t, I intellectually don’t think that he was looking down on me, but like, I wish he was, or like I was just listening to the podcast episode so that we recorded like a few weeks after he died. It was right around this time of year actually the, the, the lectionary text was on the like post-resurrection exper appearances I think.

00:22:48Or we just, I just brought that up because I was like sitting in his old apartment and feeling like, oh, like he feels like he’s like here still. And like I know that he’s like, not here, but like to, it’s, it’s like, it’s okay to use metaphor or or poetic language or to like, imagine if like I, you know, I remember my, before he died, my therapist would be like, you know, maybe you just like now when he couldn’t travel anymore, like you could just like have an afternoon like talking about like, oh, like what if he would like went back. It was also the pandemic. Like what if feel like we went back to fire island. Like wouldn’t it be lovely to like go to the beach or go cruising for guys or what place would we want to see? Or like, you know, that trip that we never got to take to France, like what would we eat? And at this point he couldn’t eat. He had like got obvious nutrition intravenously. So it was like, oh yeah, like remember that like pot roast you made three years ago.

00:23:31Like, like it is okay to sort of like indulge our emotions and tell stories and use poetic language and metaphor and imagine and wish and dream. Like there’s like something really beautiful and human about that. Even if you as you intellectually are like, yeah, like he, like he’s gone. And also like I sometimes I still talk to him like, and that’s like a yes. And, And I, it also, as you were talking about like the wouldn’t it be nice if, if God like if if someone was looking out for me, I think that too is like an invitation to me to think about like, how do we be that for each other? Yeah. Right.

00:24:11That there is this sense of like, yeah, maybe, maybe God isn’t gonna miraculously drop 500 bucks for my rent in my lap, but like maybe a bunch of my friends will, or like, maybe I can do that for someone else. And that like, I don’t know that that doesn’t get to your point about grief and loss and that Yeah. But, but there is, I don’t know, even in that it’s a sense of like, when you and your friends get together and you talk about what you remember and what you experienced with Josh, like that is a, a way of calling him back and recalling him and keeping his, keeping him alive in, in the midst of your community.

00:24:53And I know that you’ve talked a lot about how much he taught you all and how you continue to live out those values together. Yeah. And that, that too is like a way of, of carrying that forward. And so I think that there, there is like the thing that feels so appealing about that prayer of like, it a miracle is just gonna happen, but it, it always required people, right? Yeah. So I think that the, the like beauty of, I don’t know, maybe the beauty of progressive theology or the honesty of progressive theology is to say, well, it’s always been us, right? Yeah. It’s always been up to us to like make that happen and to show up and to be be the justice, be the community, be the whatever in the world.

00:25:42And like, I don’t know, we can, we can still do that. Even, even when things are the way they are now. Shay that is, I, I’m such a fan boy, I can’t believe I’ve known you for so long. Like, that was so it’s al like if, yeah, ’cause I like it was never in my mind, it was never a man in the sky intervening, which then means like, it’s always been us, which is actually like, God, I could cry. That’s like really fucking beautiful and like, I, it just reminds me of like last week, right? Also we were talking about like community and community care and effort and like, I feel just like infinitely lucky that I, like I do feel held by these like five guys that like we went through hell with, right?

00:26:28And I’m aware that like not everyone has that and like doesn’t feel as held by their like this like beautiful queer chosen family that I have. And also I’m aware that like 15 years ago I didn’t, I didn’t know Josh 15 years ago. Like, it, like, it is not something that I’ve always had. It’s something that like partly I lucked into partly we all put a lot of effort in. Like, I, like I tell a story in my book, love Beyond Monogamy. Like I absolutely, like Peter met Josh, we like first met through a, like a dating and hookup app. Like I would’ve vetoed him if I had that power and like got him outta my life because I was like jealous and uncomfortable and like, but I didn’t. And like we grew up And I became one of my best friends, right? That like, it was not without trial and error and turmoil and heartbreak and you know, hurt feelings along the way.

00:27:15Like, and also like a decade later, like we emerged or something really beautiful and like it took, it took work and like I had many other iterations of friend groups over the years, right? Like that I’m still friends with many of those people just like in different ways. And so like, if you’re like, God, I like I that’s like well and good Brian, you’re not this beautiful queer family in New York. Like, like that. Like it might mean taking some actions to go either meet some people or like deepen the connections that you already have. I just shared a Instagram post today from a black woman educator who was talking about like communal care and friendship and it was like, you have to stop splitting your lunches on Venmo down to the penny.

00:28:01Like that makes your relationship transactional. You have to like, you don’t Venmo your friend to dog your cat, like you dog sit their cat there, there a dog one weekend, like the house pick up your groceries the next weekend. Like you need to sort of like, there are some things, especially now with technology and social media and sort of like on demand everything. Like, it is really easy to sort of like isolate and we really have to like push against the sort of commodification of every single thing. And that means like sometimes like I buy a this round of drinks and you buy the second round or you buy the round next week or like you crash on my couch, like crouch on your couch.

00:28:41Like I pick you up from the airport, you pick me up from the airport, I ask you how you’re feeling. It’s vulnerable, it feels scary. Like I bet you were to my house for dinner. Like, I mean, we could, that could be a whole series or a whole like immersive something or other, but there like, it does feel like you, it takes action and it’s never, it’s like never too late to start my mom not to get too personal and share her shit. She’ll be, would be so upset. But like my mom has made some like really beautiful friendships just over the past like five years that are like super, super meaningful to her and she’s pushing 70 now. So like, it’s never like, there’s always time to, to start forming the community around you.

00:29:22Friends. Don’t forget that coming up in the first week of June, we’re doing the Queerness Everyday Challenge. It is a six day challenge where we encourage you to do something to infuse and integrate your queerness and your spirituality every single day. And you can do it five minutes a day or less and have a great community of people that come around and come together to, to do this challenge. It’s only $7. So we would love to have you as part of Sanctuary Collective to Join the Queerness Everyday Challenge. You can find out more by gonna Queer Theology com slash challenge and you can also sign up there, hope to see you inside of Sanctuary Collective. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters.

00:30:05

To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

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Besides just being BUSY at the moment, we’re both feeling the anxiety of the daily current news. And it is exhausting, y’all. So, yes, while we do need a good nap, we also get into the themes of rest, self-care, and community engagement amidst the challenges of modern life in this episode. There is a tension between the need for personal rest and the demands of activism, and as with most things in life, it is important to find balance. We also talk about the value of micro rituals in daily life, even if they are much more micro than you would like them to be. We’re holding another round of the Queerness Every Day Challenge and it’s a great opportunity for folks to participate in small, meaningful practices that connect queerness and spirituality, especially amidst the busyness!

Takeaways

Both hosts express a shared feeling of being emotionally and spiritually drained.
The conversation highlights the importance of self-care amidst life’s demands.
There is a tension between the need to rest and the need to engage in activism.
Marginalized individuals often have less ability to rest due to survival pressures.
Quality engagement with community can be more rejuvenating than passive consumption.
Micro rituals can help maintain connection to spirituality and self-care.
The busier one is, the more they need to engage in self-care practices.
Finding a minimum viable ritual can help maintain spiritual practices during busy times.
Community connections are vital for emotional support and rejuvenation.
The Queerness Every Day Challenge encourages small, meaningful daily practices.

Chapters

(07:18) Balancing Self-Care and Activism

(13:28) Quality Engagement vs. Passive Consumption

(19:27) Micro Rituals for Daily Life

(22:27) The Queerness Every Day Challenge

Resources:.

Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from Genesis, revelation, the Bible declare good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how tune In each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome back, Shannon. And I just, before we hit record right now, or I asked Shannon, what do you wanna talk about on the podcast today? And I wish we were already recording so I could have a screenshot of the face he made and he said, napping.

00:00:50And, you know, God, that hit me. So that was, felt just like, felt so real And I was like, yeah, let’s talk about that. Like, and so we’re not gonna talk only about napping, but I think, and, and let us know if this resonates with you, that like, we’re both kind of like literally tired a lot of the time, emotionally tired, sometimes feeling like spiritually drained and despondent. I mean, I think like for all the obvious reasons that everyone is feeling. And then also we, we probably each have our own sort of like, particular versions of that in our own lives. You know, this is something that happens at all points throughout history and throughout our lives. And also like at this particular moment, it feels maybe it’s more acute for many of us.

00:01:34And also, right, like I still gotta pay the bills And I still have like family and friends that I care about and who care about me. And I still want to like experience joy and connection and community. And I still wanna, like, I don’t wanna give up and just crawl into a hole. I want to continue to fight to make the world a better place. And so like, we wanna explore this sort of like tension between the very real need to sometimes take naps and to take care of ourselves, and also the importance of taking care of each other. And maybe how those two, like you actually can’t separate as much as maybe people want you to think you can separate and, and just sort of like, like how are we doing this in this moment?

00:02:16We don’t have an outline. This is like very unscripted off the cuff. I was working on my other job like until like 9:00 PM last night. So we’re like, this is like, you’re like, you’re Shay’s been driving a bunch for work. Like you’re getting, this is real. So Shay like you said, I want talk about, or I don’t, if you see this, wanna talk about, I think you said what I wanna do is nap. Yes, yes. So like what’s, like, what’s going on for you? Yeah, yeah. It’s just been a really, really busy season. You know, as we’re recording this, we’re recording this a little bit ahead of, of when it’s gonna go out, but like, I just launched a book a couple of weeks ago. I started a new job about a month ago.

00:02:55I’m like you said, I’ve been driving a ton. The, the work that I’m doing has me in, in a bunch of different places. A, a play that I have been working on for two years, like just had its premiere, right? So there’s just been a ton going on and we were both kind of joking, you know, I think there’s that meme that goes around that’s like adulthood is just saying things are gonna calm down after next week over and over again until you die. Yep. And that’s, I feel like the two of us have both been in that space of, like, I was just telling my wife today, I was like, yeah, now this play is open. Like the the last thing I have to do is like rewrite the Queer Theology book. And we were kind of like laughing and then I can take a break and it’s just like, you know, it’s just, It’s just a small little thing of rewriting a whole 65,000 a book, Not 60,000 pages, Lord, Sorry, 60,000 words.

00:03:49Yes. Be like, what publishing. But I think that, you know, I, I think, I think that this feeling that both of us are laughing about is like not uncommon with a lot of people. And I think that like, in addition to all of the just logistical and whatever things, it’s also like we are living in a time of increasing whatever this is. And there’s a lot of, you know, anxiety and fear and uncertainty and just a lot of unknowns. And like that also takes a toll on your mental and emotional and spiritual health. And so like, I’m just, I’m carrying all of that.

00:04:31Yeah. And I think, I know that there’s been a lot of conversation online about like, rest over the past. I don’t know, it, it feels like over the past couple of years there’s been kind of this rest discourse, some from the like Nat Ministry folks, but like that it’s, it’s a lot broader, more broad than, than just that. And I’ve, I’ve really struggled with that because I think that there is a tension between, yes, we have to take care of ourselves, we have to like actually sleep and eat and drink water and all of those things. And also like, the more marginalized you are, I think the less ability you have to rest.

00:05:14Like, there’s just always something to do. And like often that’s something to do feels very tied to survival, right? It’s not just like, I don’t have the luxury to just like check out because people are trying to legislate trans people out of existence. Right? Like, I don’t have the luxury to just whatever. And It’s like not choosing between like, I’m only gonna go go to one brunch this weekend instead of two brunches this weekend. Exactly. Right. Exactly. And like, and sometimes it feels like, I dunno, this is maybe my bias showing, I mean, sometimes it feels like some of the folks using the rest idea, especially online, are people who are like white, white, able bodied, cis and like not actually doing anything anyway.

00:06:01And so it like, so it’s like whatcha resting from Yeah. Like, because you’re like not out in the streets and you’re not defending trans people and you’re not like fighting for existence. And so all I’m saying, and you work Like, and you work at Google, like Yeah. Like, you’re, you’re, you’re fine. Yeah. Maybe, maybe what you need to do is like, rest less and yeah, work more so that the rest of us can rest Anyway. So I, so I, I’ve struggled with that tension, but I do think that there is a, there’s something here for marginalized folks at figuring out, like, what is that balance? Like how do we care for ourselves and invest in our communities and like center joy and celebration in the midst of also not checking out of the work and continuing to show up for justice causes.

00:06:54And I don’t, I don’t clearly with how tired I’m today, like I have not achieved that balance. But I do think that it’s like, that’s an important thing to be thinking through and and wrestling through for all of us, especially in this moment. So those are, yeah, those are some of my initial thoughts. Yeah. Something that you said sparked in me, this totally unrelated idea that I use in my relationship coaching practice, but it, it feels like an apt analogy. And I, I wanna share that and then like, then I’ll share a little bit about my own shit. But like oftentimes, especially in long-term relationships where the partners live together, what will happen is they, because they live together and they’ve been together for a while, they’ll end up spending like most of their time together.

00:07:37And so every day they like come home from work or they work all day at home anyways. ’cause they’re, they’re remote working and so they’ll sort of like be at home and like, maybe they’ll cook dinner and maybe they’ll order dinner in and they’ll like watch a TV show or like not, or sort of like be on their phones. And so they’re like spending a lot of like physical time together, but it’s like very like the same old, same old every single day and kind of monotonous and, or they’re like physically next to each other on the couch, but they’re scrolling on Instagram if they’re open or polyamorous, like they’re scrolling on Grindr or Tinder or they’re like Snapchatting with like strangers, right? Like, and so you’re like together, but you’re like not having quality reconnection time, nor are you actually having quality, like meeting new people time or stimulating your brain through hobbies or like resting.

00:08:31And so this sort of like seemingly paradoxical coaching that I often give folks is like, you probably need to spend like more both like more time together and less time together, like less physical time together. Even if that’s just sort of like go into separate rooms and like read a book over there and like, you play your favorite video game over here, but like, don’t just like sit on the couch kind of doing nothing together. That is nice sometimes, but like, that shouldn’t be your every day. And, and then spend more time like, like cooking in the elaborate meal rather than just like reheating pizza or like making a picnic in the park or going for a walk around the block or like putting your phones away and sitting on the couch and like holding hands or using one of those like intimacy card decks by Best Self co like asking each other a few like sort of deep questions, like to actually get some quality connection.

00:09:16And so I think that there’s a, an analogy here where sort of like, when I feel the least the when I sometimes, like when I feel the most in need of rest is like when I’m like not doing anything where it’s like I’ve like caught myself in a doom scroll and I’ve been like reading the news and reading all these, watching all these like reels about how terrible things are and wars and bombings and prisons and like feelings sort of like helpless and hopeless and disconnected and like, my eyes literally hurt, but I am not actually napping. And so like, like I think that, and I’m saying this just as much to myself as I am to you or anyone else is like, I probably need like both more naps and also more picnics and also more protests.

00:10:02And also let’s spin another p like, and also like more pottery, right? Like, like I think that like what I, what like I think I like need to unhook from is this sort of like mediocre, there’s a Bible verse about this also, like, right, like, don’t be there, don’t be be be hot or cold. Don’t be lukewarm God lukewarm. Or like, I think that this like, sort of like lukewarm, I feel like I don’t have enough energy to go to the park, but I like, don’t wanna take a nap ’cause it feels like there’s too much to do. So then I kind of do like neither. And so I think like the, like how can I both rest and then also like rejuvenate and like those like might be two different things and Instagram reels and YouTube videos as much as I want them to be rejuvenating or not actually rejuvenating, right?

00:10:51It’s like a talk with friends of like fresh sour of like watching the sunset, like whatever it might be. Like going to like a community meeting and meeting my neighbors, like getting outside of my house. I always, I hate sometimes leaving my house. And also 95% of the time if I’m leaving my house as long as I’m home by 8:45 PM like I I’m glad that I, I’m glad that I left the house. So there’s like something there about this sort of like, yes ending, it’s like not either or. And like the times that I feel like most in need of support, like going, whether it’s to a book club or services or just like meeting up with friends and offering a listening ear, like giving support also sometimes then allows me to get support and asking for what you need.

00:11:43And like, like now more than ever, community connections just like feel super important and that does take like work, but it’s like a different type of work than like your day job work. You know what I mean? Yeah, that’s that’s what I was gonna say. Like I, it feels to me that sometimes the things that take energy, like showing up at a protest or a community meeting or, or even like engaging with friends while while those do take energy, it takes, it’s a different, it’s a more engaged energy, right? And the recovery from that is different. It feels a lot different than like doom scrolling or tweeting or getting in involved in like in raging conversations online.

00:12:30Yeah. I in a way that like, that too can sometimes feel like you’re doing something like quote unquote doing something. Like you’re staying informed, you’re bringing a Awareness stand, speaking your voice. Yes. Yeah. Like all of those things. But like those take a different type of toll And I think that like lead I, I’ll, I’ll speak for myself, like often lead me to a feeling of, I don’t know, like blah is the best Blah god word For it. Right. I’m Just like, a lot of the time that’s like, Yeah. Where it’s just like I, I I get like, I guess I’m engaged, I guess what, but it doesn’t, like I’m not rejuvenated and I’m also like not spent in a way that feels right.

00:13:14There is a way in which like when I’ve done a really good thing, I had a hard conversation with someone Yeah. That I do feel spent, but it it’s like a good kind of spent Yeah. That like, like after a really good workout, right? Like you, your body feels spent, but it also feels Yeah. Strong and engaged and you feel in it. And I think that like, that feels like an important distinction for me too. Yeah. You know, I, so I used to, there was a while a few years ago where I was like praying every day. I mean, and also like praying, I am not a talk to God prayer. I’m like a read a liturgy prayer. So I, but like, so it wass like the same liturgy every day or like for a while with poems.

00:13:54Like, so when I say pray, like I really mean like spending like some amount of minutes in sort of structured mindfulness. And I was like doing like every day And I was like, really great. And I like have been doing it for a while and like, like a few weeks ago I like, I was like, oh, like maybe I should like, like dab in this morning. And I like did it And I was like, oh, that felt great. Like I wish I did this more. And then like I did it then like the next day maybe, And I was like, oh, this is awesome. I’m gonna keep doing this. And then like the third day I didn’t do it. Like, And like it does, like, you do have to sort of like keep your foot on the pedal a little bit and like, I don’t know, I like, I, that is something that speaks to me like reading, whether it’s like liturgical prayers or poetry, but like, it could be journaling or knitting or crafting or like hosting weekly meals with your roommates or your chosen family or just like your friends.

00:14:44Like I know that we’re like a little broken record here, but like, what are the like practices that like support and sustain you and like you the like weird paradox, right? Is that like you do have to like exert some amount of effort on it. It’s just that like, kinda like you were saying like a workout, but it’s like a workout for your heart, like your, your, your soul that like, you exert a little bit of effort for your soul and then like the, the payoff is so much more than the effort. Like, we invited a few people over for dinner on a Friday night a few weeks ago, and it was like, oh, there was just five of us and like my husband made a crockpot chicken, like pulled chicken thing like that we put on store-bought rolls and it was like just, it was very simple and pretty cheap and like, but so like, so lovely, right?

00:15:41And I was like, oh, I wanna do more of this. And like, then we had friends over for drinks before a bunch of ’em went over to out to their Kylie Mano concert. Like that night I didn’t, I stayed in, but like some of them went to that And I was like, oh, we should like, we should like move this thing like every Friday. Of course. Like I haven’t, so like for as much as I, as much as we like talk about rituals, we have like a whole workshop inside of spi, study hall, sanctuary collective about rituals and the power of them. Like even I sometimes need to sort of like go back to those checklists and worksheets and sort of like recommit to them. And so like, I think like, I guess I didn’t start out this conversation thinking that I was gonna like end here, but I was like, oh, like what are the, and whether it’s like spiritual rituals are just sort of like communal care.

00:16:26Like what are the things that actually make me feel cared for, protected, safe, seen, supported part of something bigger and like how might I put in a little bit of effort to get those and then also like maybe say no to some stuff that like isn’t gonna actually fill me up and like go to bed early. Like, I’m so glad I didn’t go to the sky Le Monroe concert. Like if you feel like I went to bed like on a Friday night at like 9:00 PM it was fucking amazing, right? So like sometimes it’s saying like, that does sound like fun, but like, let’s do an afternoon thing this weekend instead of getting together at 9:30 PM for drinks. You know, like, and or maybe you’re a night owl at 9:30 PM works great for you and an afternoon thing wouldn’t be good for you.

00:17:08But like figuring out like what, like how can you sometimes do rest but also not like resting without retreating I think is, I guess what I’m figuring out. And that also makes me think of like, I, I think often when I’m as stressed and as busy as I currently am, it can feel like, what do you mean you want me to have rituals on top of this? Like I don’t even have time to Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sleep I like and now I’ve gotta do this new thing. And one of the things that I’ve been working on and not always succeeding with but working on over the past couple of years is like to use a kind of businessy term is like what’s my minimum viable ritual, right?

00:17:50Where it’s like in an ideal day, right, I would love to sit down before I go to work and write three pages longhand in my journal and while having a cup of coffee and then light a candle and read some prayers and read a poem and meditate and do like all of these different things. And it’s like, okay, that’s the perfect, so like what is, what is the like thing that I can keep in practice? And so it’s like, great, I can write three sentences in my journal and it might be at the end of the day, not in the morning, I can do five minutes of meditation instead of 10. I can read a super short poem or nothing.

00:18:32Right? Like yeah. That there are ways for me to stay engaged in these practices even if it’s not ideal. And, but it, that is still like keeping me engaged in that, in that practice so that when I do have more time, you know, then I can do the full thing. There was also some meditation teacher that, that was, had this thing of like, anyone who said, I’m too busy to meditate. He’s like, you should meditate for 20 minutes a day and if you’re too busy to meditate for 20 minutes a day, you should meditate for two hours a day. Right? It was this sense of like, the busier you’re, the more that you actually need the thing. And I, I’m sure that that teacher was maybe being facetious, but Yeah.

00:19:14But I think that there is something there of like, it’s in the times when we’re most stressed and the, and when we feel most, like I do not have time to go out with my friends. I do not have time to engage in spiritual practices. I do not have time to do X, y and Z. Yeah. But those are the times when we most desperately need to figure out how to do something, something to connect something to practice something to whatever. Yeah. And I don’t know if this is like an a DHD hyper fixation thing or if this is just like an everyone thing, but like, I often find myself like wanting to, like when I have like an idea of like wanting to like really go big, I wanna like watch 12 different YouTube videos about it.

00:19:55I wanna like read some articles about it. I want some checklist. I wanna like make a spreadsheet or a plan or start a new project in my like to do app and like we’re like, go big, right? And it’s like, yeah, or, or like, could I just like do one thing? Like could I just like text it, right? Like I don’t actually have to have a whole system for like how I’m gonna send every single person I know a birthday card in an anniversary card And I just thinking of you card all year long, I could just send like one card to the next person whose birthday is right. Or like for my mornings like to sort of like pray the morning like prayer service and, and Judaism it like takes like about 15 minutes if you’re like by yourself and kind of going quickly. But like, if I like wanna get like my prayer show out, it’s like, it’s like at least 18 to 20 minute like endeavor, right?

00:20:36Like, And I have to like find my per on then fold it back up afterwards. So I’m like, that’s like my ideal. But like, okay. But so I don’t, I don’t either, like I don’t have time for that or I’m just like, do all energy And I don’t feel like that, that feels like overwhelming wherever I am, like sitting or laying down. Can I just like use the timer on my watch for five minutes and just sort of like count my breath and then maybe say thema, which is like one sentence, two sentences before or after that and like call that a day. Which, which like leads me, I guess like, which like leads me into this thing that we have coming up The Queerness Every Day Challenge. One of the things that we talk about is like finding affirmations or like literally like micro rituals that you can sort of like remind yourself of ways in which your queerness and your faith are like already intertwined.

00:21:29And like starting with something like super, super small as like a really powerful reminder of the, like that you’re good, that you’re holy, that you’re deserving of love and rest. That you’re like, your body is good. Like whatever is like fuels important for you. Like whatever, like the word is that you need to hear. Like how can you find these like tiny little practices that you can sort of like smush into your life that don’t feel like they’re add-ons that you can do laying down, that you can do on the bus, that you can do before bed that you can like do before tired, but you don’t have to do anything. All you have to do is like open your eyes and like look at the thing you already put out like three weeks ago.

00:22:09Right. So that’s coming up soon. I Shay you wanna share a little bit more about this? Yeah. You know, one of the things that I love about The Queerness Every Day Challenge this is will be our what our third time doing it fourth. So yeah, third time. Is that like, it, it’s a good reminder to me about how about returning to the same practices? Like, and we, we switch it up a little bit each year, but, but the, the functional thing is kind of the same. So like, how do we do these small things that can infuse queerness and spirituality and the intersections between them into our daily lives in like five minutes a day or less? And what I love about this is like, it’s a reminder to me that a revisiting and returning to the same practices reveal something deeper every time to me.

00:23:00And also like, because I have changed in the last year, even though I’m doing the same thing, like I’m gonna have a different experience of it because I’m different. And it’s a reminder that like even small things can, when when they add up, can make a really big difference in that. Like re-engaging in this work, reminding myself of these intersections and why they matter to me, like is deeply, deeply meaningful. And so whether you’ve done it with us in the past or whether you’re like brand new to it, really encourage you to, to join this queerness everyday challenge. It’s super fun. We have a community space collective, something, something small that you can do.

00:23:47There’s some advanced player moves if you’ve done it before or you wanna take it even deeper. And we do it together every day for a week and, and come together and form community around that. And it’s, it’s really awesome. It’s a, it was a really special time every year and so we hope you’ll will join us for that. Yeah, and it’s the first week of June, so it’s a great way to kick off your pride month. It runs Sunday, June 1st to Friday, June 6th. It’s just $7 and you can do it from anywhere in the world. We have folks in the US and Canada and South Africa, and Denmark Australia, Germany, South Korea, like really, really from all over. And so we would love to have you be a part of that.

00:24:29

You can go to Queer Theology dot com slash challenge to learn more and sign Up. Yeah, we’d love to have you. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To Dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

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View Details

We tackle a series of questions from listeners on this week’s episode! The questions focus on the intersection of faith, identity, and community for LGBTQ+ individuals. We discuss the challenges faced by transgender individuals in church settings, the misconceptions surrounding sin and sexuality, the experiences of agnostics in religious spaces, and the nuanced understanding of the Holy Spirit in the lives of queer individuals. We also get into grief, demons and the importance of personal agency and community in navigating these topics.

Takeaways

No, it’s not a sin and you’re not going to hell.
Conservative views often equate same-gender relationships with addiction.
It’s important to find an affirming community.
God didn’t make a mistake in creating trans individuals.
We co-create our identities with God.
Agnostics are welcome in many progressive churches.
Defining God can vary greatly among individuals.
Community and rituals can be meaningful without belief in God.
The Holy Spirit’s role is often misunderstood in evangelicalism.
The working of the spirit is a mystery, not a certainty. Activism can inspire students to take action and create change.
Transcendence can be felt in everyday experiences, such as dance and community.
The concept of demons and possession is often tied to mental health and societal issues.
Rituals can provide comfort and connection in times of grief.
Praying for the departed can be a personal and meaningful practice.
Understanding the historical context of spiritual beliefs is crucial.
Personal agency should not be undermined by the concept of demonic influence.
Grief is a non-linear process that requires compassion and understanding.
Community support is vital in navigating spiritual and emotional challenges.
Rituals can help honor the memory of loved ones and facilitate healing.

Chapters

(1:04) Agnostics and Their Place in Church

(8:21) Navigating Church as a Transgender Individual

(15:57) The Role of the Holy Spirit in LGBTQ+ Lives

(26:05) Exploring the Concept of Demons and Possession

(31:28) Praying for the Departed: Grief and Rituals

Resources:

What’s the Deal with the Pigs?
Want to submit a question? Go to queertheology.com/listen to submit your own.
Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts From Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how tuning In each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Queer Theology Podcast. This week we’ve got a q and a episode. You all have been sending in questions through our Google Voice number, and we’re super excited to tackle some of them today. We’ve got some really great and interesting questions, and we’re just gonna take ’em one by one. And if you would like to submit your question for a future episode of the podcast, you can go to Queer Theology dot com slash podcast and there will be instructions on that page with how to submit your question.

(1m 4s):
Our first question is an anonymous one from Tumblr. For anyone who is still on Tumblr, you can submit questions to us there. We, I think Tumblr is still in existence as of the recording of this episode. So this question is, can a agnostics go to church? I wrote a whole novel of a question with backstory and everything, but deleted it because that’s the crux of my question. I realized I was queer after I became agnostic. So that combo doesn’t hold much angst for me luckily. But every now and then I circle back around to religion and the thing that always stops me from engaging completely is that I am agnostic. And I don’t think that’s going to change at this point. I’ve done a lot of soul searching and a lot of research, and it doesn’t matter which religion, I just can’t believe things I don’t believe.

(1m 48s):
That wasn’t very eloquent, but I hope you know what I mean. But something’s obviously calling me back over and over. So yeah. Can agnostics go to church? I think that’s actually quite elegant, actually. Yes. I love this question. Yeah, yeah. Yes, definitely. I would say that in, in a, in many, most like progressive liberal mainline churches, the pastors and priests there were like, absolutely love for agnostics to come. It’s not just me saying this. I have talked to many Agnos and many pastors and priests at, at churches that are like, yeah, sure, come on. There’s like lots of reasons to come to church.

(2m 28s):
Like if you believe in the mission of Jesus, the work that we’re doing here at the community that we’re forming, the rituals speak to you. Like, come on in. You don’t Have to. And and honestly, a lot of those pastors and priests might also be agnostics. Yep. So that’s just know that, Yes. I would also, also also gonna say like a lot of pastors and priests are potentially agnostic, And I think this really gets down to like, how do you define God? And so like if God is a man in the sky that like used magic spells and conjured up miracles to create, to form the world in his hand and intervenes in the affairs of the world, then like many, many, many Christians, Jews, pastors, priests, rabbis, imams, like don’t believe in that God.

(3m 21s):
But many people still say that they believe in God. But it’s something else. I, for probably the entire time that we’ve done Queer Theology, I’ve been like, I don’t know if I believe in God. And so for a while there was like, can I still call myself a Christian? And, and Shannon, you’ve always been like, yeah, man, like you, like believe in the ministry of Jesus and like you’re down for a Christian community. And so like, come on. I’m like, good enough for me. Obviously at some point I converted to Judaism And I think like, actually like, like when I was still a Christian, it kind of felt important to be like, well, I don’t believe in the conservative Christian version of God, but there’s like a different version of God that I do believe in.

(4m 5s):
And it’s definitely not anything supernatural, but it’s like, I don’t know, when you like hold a baby in your arms and it cries like it’s just sound waves reverberating through the air and then into your eardrum. Like, and also that it’s like something more, right? When you like have a really like special meal with your like queer chosen family, there’s like something sort of like sizzling in the air. There. There are things that we have been told are impossible, and then a group of people who are willing to sacrifice everything for it come together believing in the impossible. And then somehow the what what seems to be impossible becomes impossible, right?

(4m 49s):
And so like that sort of like whatever that is, I like people call that, some people call that God. And so like, I think like you get to define what God is and you can still be agnostic or even an atheist and believe in the power of community or unpacking and diving into religion or seeing what you can learn or the rituals or what whatever it might be for you. And like you don’t, you don’t have to believe in God to do that. And also a lot of the people who say they believe in God, like there’s so many different definitions of God that is important to ask. Like, well, what does that, what does God mean to you? Because you might be closer in belief to a lot of the people at these churches than you realize.

(5m 33s):
Yeah. I, I echo all of that. I, I think that too, like just also, you know, kind of being clear with folks about who you are, which doesn’t mean you need to like walk in announcing you and agnostic, right. And I believe that. Yeah. But like, you know, being clear about with folks there about like what is it that you are invested in and, and how you want to engage and why you’re, why you’re there. And I think I would also add that finding the right community is gonna be really important too, because like if you’re in a community that is really, really big on proselytization, like you are just gonna be miserable, right?

(6m 15s):
Yeah. And they’re gonna be, yeah, they’re gonna see you as a project and they’re gonna try and save you. So like, you’re gonna wanna be in a, in a congregation that like allows for a diversity of belief and that is about the practice of creating community. So I just encourage you to, to kind of look for that as you’re joining a place or, or even attending, because that’s gonna be the thing that’s gonna make a difference between whether you have a good experience or a bad experience. But I, I think that there’s something in your question too about like, I’m feeling drawn to this. Just listen to that, right? Like, and, and again, like whatever that thing is that’s drawing you, whether that is community, whether it’s ritual, whether it’s justice, whether it’s whatever, there’s something there.

(7m 4s):
And so listening to that and finding out the places that you can live that out are, are gonna be important. And you might find that it’s actually not a church that you’re looking for, that you are looking for, I don’t know, a queer game night or a food not bombs community, right? But, but you might find that out by spending some time in churches and figuring out where to plug in and and how to connect with people. Yeah. And I would just offer at most churches the pastor is, would be like down for, maybe, I shouldn’t say most, but at many churches, probably most the pastor or a pastor at the church would be like down for having, setting up a meeting at some point, like for 30 minutes or a coffee or something.

(7m 48s):
So like if that doesn’t intimidate you, if that would feel good, like just to sort of like talk it out and be like sort of, here’s where I am, this is what I’m looking for. Like if it’s a smaller church, they’re probably like hungry for new members and so they would be like, excited to have you. And if they’re a bigger church, there’s a good chance that they have like multiple pastors or staff to like, do just this. And so like at any size church, you’ll probably be able to find someone to like talk to about this, to sort of get a sense of like what do they feel about your agnosticism. So our next question is from Darby. I am a transgender male who went back to church after my wife’s sister died back last March.

(8m 28s):
I believe in God and heaven and felt really good going to church until the beginning of this month when one of the pastors stated We need to help and save our family members and friends, those who are addicted to alcohol, pornography, and same sex relationships. It really made me uncomfortable. I didn’t even listen to the rest of the service and haven’t been back to church but want to go. I feel people judging who I am is definitely a sin to, and why can people be ugly toward us when all we do is love for love? Is being gay or trans a sin? Will I not go to heaven for being me? When people say God made you in his image and didn’t make a mistake making me, it really confuses me and he response to help me. I would appreciate it. Absolutely. Darby, we feel you.

(9m 8s):
Yeah. This is a hard one, right? Like it’s, it’s so hard when you’re in a space where you’re hearing aff affirming messages. So first of all, no, it’s not a sin and you’re not going to hell. So that’s, you can just take that off the plate. Yep, yep, yep. Right off the bat. And, and you know, I think that anytime someone is talking about being addicted to pornography, I always, that always raises red flags for me. I I really think that conservative folks are like obsessed with this idea of being addicted to everything and like clarifying very natural and normal sexual expression as addiction.

(9m 52s):
And so like that, that in your question raises red flags to me for sure. And of course like equating same gender relationships with other addictions is also like this person is, has some bad theology and would really encourage you to like seek out a, a new church. Yeah. There’s, there’s multiple questions sort of all wrapped up in this question, right? There’s this one question of I wanna go to church, but this church like says that it’s a sin to be gay and trans. Like, so I have been back, but I want to go back what, like what I do about that there’s like the question that then that church is bringing up in, in Darby, which is like, is it a sin to be queer?

(10m 38s):
And then there’s also this question of like, isn’t it a sin for you to judge people? Like what’s, like, what’s the deal with them judging me? And then also this other, this final question which is like related to the sin question, but feels different, which is like, did God make a mistake when making trans people? And I know that that’s a question that you’ve addressed multiple times, but so like it feels maybe like worth it to, to tease apart those Yeah, I mean when it comes to the, is it a sin question, right? Like I I I echo yha, no definitively no, this is a question that has been asked and answered for decades. And so like, I would encourage you, there’s a, there’s a lot of great scholarship out there if you are still really wrestling with that, that’s been written about this.

(11m 21s):
And also one of the things that I have found is that getting into this sort of like back and forth arguing about the academics and the translations and this word and the theology and the hermeneutics and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like can be really difficult and unsatisfying. Not because there’s anything wrong with queerness or our arguments or our positions, but just that like conservative Christianity has like so warped the conversation around not just this issue but like, like the bible in general and theology in general, that like they’ve kind of rigged the rules to the game and then are asking you to play this like rigged version of the game with them.

(12m 3s):
And so trying to like answer the question dead on of like, is it a sin by looking at their arguments on their terms is gonna be like crazy making. And so I would encourage you if you are a person who like cares about church community, the Bible, faith, et cetera, that it’s really important to find an affirming community, not so that they’ll tell you what you want to hear, but because like they have different tools for reading the Bible and different ideas about theology and who God is and how God acts in the world. And it’s really like a holistic thing that you need to sort of like unpack. It’s not just like, you can’t just sort of like trade one answer for another answer.

(12m 45s):
It’s about reading the Bible with fresh eyes and re-imagining theology outside of this sort of like vindictive, punitive, small-minded, judgmental god. And so like that takes a bit of work, that’s work that we do inside of sanctuary collective and spiritual study hall. So like if you’re interested in coming alongside some LGBTQ folks from across the country, we love to have you Queer Theology dot com slash community, but there’s also lots of books and resources written about that. We have some, a few listed on our website. You can go to Queer Theology dot com slash Is it okay? And there are be some, some resources there for you. And then what about this? Like, is it a, like did God make a mistake, Shay if that feels like an important question to, to Tackle?

(13m 27s):
Yeah. I, this is such a complicated question, right? Because I I, my initial response is like, no, God didn’t make a mistake. And also I know for some folks their transness doesn’t necessarily feel like something that they are excited or happy about or that it’s a gift, right? Like I, I now have come to feel that my trans identity is a real gift that, like me being trans was God’s design and intention. And that I learned a lot through that process. And like that is really beautiful and helpful for me. But I know for other folks who have experienced right, a lot of dysphoria who really struggle with their trans identity, it, it feels like saying that God made them that way is like some kind of punitive or punishing thing and right.

(14m 17s):
So like I wanna tread carefully in that space. And so like if, if that’s how you’re feeling about your trans identity, like it can be really tricky to hear that like God intended you for, for you to be trans, right? But I do think that there is something for me in like, I learned a lot through the process of transitioning about myself, about what it means to be a good man about what it means to be a good human in ways that I don’t think I would have learned if I were cis and, and had been born a cis guy. Like I, I’ve often shared that had I been born a cis dude, like I would be an asshole even more than I already am because like I was born in a, in a tradition, right?

(15m 2s):
That trained cis guys in a different way and like without having to kind of question my own masculinity, like I, I had those giftings that would have led me down that path of, of being kind of an asshole. And so like, I’m grateful for my trans experience, but I, so all of that to say that like, I think that this is a really complex and complicated question and where I land on it is that like we get to have a say in co-creating our identities with God. And I think lots of folks have have talked about that over the years and like have experienced that. And so it, it is you, you transitioning or choosing to transition whenever that looks like for you is not you going against God des God’s design.

(15m 54s):
And I think that for me is the bottom line. Amen. Our next question is from Tam and Tam asked, hi, I would like to know if you all believe in The Holy Spirit. If so, how does he work in the life of someone who identifies as an LGBTQ plus person? Yeah, It’s, it’s so interesting because we get lots of messages from lots of different types of people. And so when messages are like super short like this, it’s always hard to like parse out like who the, who the asker is and what sort of assumptions they might be bringing to the question and what they’re getting at. And are there any sort of unasked questions or like agendas.

(16m 39s):
And so like for instance, with this question, it could be asked from someone who is a conservative anti LGBT person who is trying to like look for a gotcha moment for us to trap us into saying something wrong about The Holy Spirit. Or it could be someone who is queer and like is wanting to know how The Holy Spirit could function in their life, or it could be from some other thing. And so given the lack of information, we’re just gonna take this at face value as a good faith question. If this was you or if you have a similar question, you can always like write in, in with more details, but we’re gonna just sort of do the best that we can with the limited information that we have. So Shay what would you, how would you answer this?

(17m 20s):
Yeah, it, so growing up, right, The Holy Spirit was a big deal, right? It was very much a, a part of my evangelical world and, and worldview and like The Holy Spirit was God’s indwelling in each believer to base honestly often mostly to convict us of sin, right? I think The Holy Spirit was supposed to do a little bit more than that, but like in our conception it Was stick back. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And so, and so I don’t believe in The Holy Spirit in that way anymore.

(17m 60s):
So I’ll say that to start, I do think that there is, you know, back to back to the last question of like, it depends on how you define God, right? For me, there is a spirit in the world, something bigger than me. I, I believe in that And I do believe that that spirit is working in the world in ways that I might not be able to understand or see. And I also believe that like part of what we often call The Holy Spirit or what, especially in evangelicalism we call The Holy Spirit, right?

(18m 40s):
Which was like conviction of sin or nudges to do certain things are also like our own intuition and the the ways that God has wired us to like seek community and to want justice in the world. And so when I think about like how God works, where the spirit works in queer and trans folks, like, part of that for me was like, this spirit helped me understand that I was trans and have the courage to pursue, pursue transition. Like the spirit calls me toward community and toward justice and toward working for the least of these, the spirit, you know, sometimes does let me know that I’m being a jerk and that I should maybe apologize to someone and like show up in a different way in community.

(19m 32s):
And so I, I do believe in that, but I don’t necessarily believe that it’s like a unique to Christians or BI don’t know, like the cartoon of the little like angel on your shoulder right. Telling you things, right? And, and so I, so I think that this question has a lot of nuance And I think there’s also to me of like, part of what I think evangelicalism does wrong is it creates a sense of certainty around things that are actually supposed to be quite mysterious. And I, and for me, like the working of the spirit and what the spirit is, is absolutely a mystery.

(20m 16s):
And like I’m not afraid of that And I don’t feel the need necessarily to define it while also like living in it. I don’t know that, I don’t know if that, that doesn’t feel very eloquent, but that’s kind of like my thoughts on The Holy Spirit at this moment. Yeah, I think for me, similar to our first question, it’s like, well it depends on how you define all of these terms. And I like, similar to you, I think that I used to have this idea of The Holy Spirit as like both a voice, I guess like in my head, mind, spirit, soul, that like, since I had accepted Jesus, like was talking to me in some way to like convict me of my sin or tell me what job I should take or this is the girl that you should date or whatever.

(21m 3s):
And then like, maybe also somehow there was this sort of like war like, like supernatural war between like The Holy Spirit and like Demons. So like maybe somehow like The Holy Spirit was like, I don’t know, moving and making things happen out in the world also. And so like I like don’t believe in that. And so then I for a while was like, okay, I’m like, I don’t believe in any of that. And then I did this activism where I was traveling across the country doing direct act, non-violent, direct action activism at schools that discriminated against queer people. We were stopping in Ellendale, North Dakota at, it was an Assemblies of God school, I think it was, it doesn’t matter, yellow doesn’t matter.

(21m 48s):
This school, this Assemblies of God school in North Dakota and like the day before we got there, the police chief of this like small town like came to our hotel and was like, we gotta talk like the towns folk have heard you’re coming. And we got wind of a plan that some guys are gonna like bring their farm combines and literally run you off the road with their combines. So we need to make a plan. So that’s like the city erected these like concrete barriers kind of like blocking off the road where we were gonna be so that the combines couldn’t get to us so we could still be like protesting outside of the school. And then we heard that there was this Christian knitting group in South Dakota called Hook and for Jesus, and they also heard we were coming.

(22m 37s):
And so for like months leading up to our visit, they were like knitting prayer shawls each in a different color of the original pride rainbow. And as they were knitting them, they like prayed over them and thought about us and wished us well and infused all of their good vibes into it. And then they drove up from South La Dakota, North Dakota, and they gave us all these, these like six or seven prayer shawls. And so different people took them. One of them was like a Jewish guy, one of them was a, an atheist person. And we sort of like wrapped ourselves in these prayer shawls and stood at the chicken wire fence that the school had erected to sort of like demarcate the property line.

(23m 19s):
And like a, a van full of guys did end up coming and they got to the barrier, they realized they couldn’t get through. They like, they ended up leaving. And I, I remember like some just being like, oh, something is sort of like moving here and three women in our group three because like, this is a, a sacred number on the trinity. And they, they took these prayer shawls and that like, it’s important to be women because the Assemblies of God is, is like deeply sexist. And so they like brought these prayer shawls onto the campus and laid them out on the center lawn and then got arrested because they weren’t supposed to be there. And like you, I was like, oh, I can like see The Holy Spirit descending onto this campus and like, I couldn’t actually see it, right?

(24m 6s):
But like there was this like thing that was happening and the administrators and the students watching and the police and like the protestors and like months later we heard from students and parents of like various different schools along the way that were like, I saw what happened to you all. I transferred schools. I, like, I started talking to my administration, we started an underground gsa, like it stirred something up. And I remember thinking like, oh, maybe when the writers of the Bible said like The Holy Spirit dis descended upon Jesus like a dove there like wasn’t actually a Casper the ghost thing that you could see with your eyes that like literally floated down from heaven and at got onto Jesus, right?

(24m 54s):
Maybe the writers of the Bible had a same experience as me where like something big and epic happened that like seemed to be larger than the sum of its parts. And they like were grasping at language to describe what was happening. And the only thing that they could do was sort of like rise to this metaphor in the same way that it was like the flames of Pentecost were on this campus or this, or The Holy Spirit had come down upon us that I felt like I could see it, right? But I couldn’t actually see it. And so like, I think there’s a, like that whatever, like that thing is, I see it on the dance floor at queer clubs when I’m like on the sidelines getting a drink of water, like looking out at my friends dancing and kissing and hugging and making out and grinding.

(25m 38s):
It’s like something is moving here that is transcendent and sacred. And so like I think people throughout the ages have heard have called that still small voice that like nus like nudging of the conscious that sort of like energy in a room or a space or a protest or a revolution like that is The Holy Spirit moving. And so like hell yeah, I believe in that. Amen. Okay, so our next question is from Destiny. And Destiny recorded an audio, so we’re gonna listen to that now. Okay, so I remember one of you in previous episodes giving a new context for hell and hell isn’t what we think of it as today.

(26m 24s):
But my question is what then do you do with that, with the concept of Demons? I’m talking about like the whole possession knowledge. I dunno, I’m just curious what your thoughts are around that. Thanks. Okay, so question about Demons and possession. So I full caveat, I am obsessed with exorcism movies. My, one of my favorite book series is the Merely Watkins series, which is by Phil Rickman, which is about a episcopal priest in Wales who is also the diocesan exorcist.

(27m 8s):
Like I love this shit. And also I don’t actually believe in any of it. And so it feels like, it feels like an important distinction of like, you can enjoy paranormal shows, exorcism movies, like scary creepy things. Like if that’s your jam, like I don’t think that there’s anything necessarily wrong with that. And also I, I think that the idea of of Demons and possession is just really complicated and that probably like when, when it comes to talking about scripture, right? That I think probably in almost every passage that we have about Demons, there are like two things happening.

(27m 53s):
One is either someone is having a mental health crisis in a time when like mental health crises weren’t a thing or like we didn’t know how to categorize them or talk about them or write about them. And so I think think that that is like one thing or the idea of possession is being used as an analogy, an allegory for something political. Che Meyers in his book Binding the Strong Man talks about this a lot. We talked about it a lot when we did our, our our long series on the gospel of Mark.

(28m 34s):
So if you wanna like dive really deeply into some of the things about possession, we, we talked about it in that series, but like it often folks are talking about possession as living under empire, right? And they’re using that language as a way to talk about it subversively. And so I, I think that that is is important. That’s s episode, that’s episode 4 28 and it’s titled What’s the Deal with the Pigs Mark Week two if you’re looking for it right. Put a link in the show notes to this episode. Yeah. But yeah, I mean I I think that like there are things in the world that we can’t explain and that people sometimes have experiences that, that feel bigger than than them.

(29m 22s):
And like I, so I don’t wanna necessarily discount all of that out of hand, but I think like we have to be really careful when we’re talking about things like this because I think that like the idea of people, people being demon possessed is just really, really dicey and has been used to like, cause a lot of harm to people, especially marginalized people. And so like I think we just gotta be, we gotta be careful on that front. Yeah, I would, everything that you said so eloquently, I don’t have much to add other than to echo to, to sort of be mindful that you’re, that you’re not using or that other people aren’t using Demons and demon possession to dehumanize other people to remove their agency, to remove your agency.

(30m 12s):
It think it can also be like a way that folks let themselves off the hook, right? Like the devil got to me, right? It wasn’t me, it was the devil or a demon. And so like, it’s important that you take personal responsibility for whatever the things are that you did or that if like people are being mean to you, they, and that they try to use Demons or being possessed or the devil got to them as an excuse or justification for it. Like that’s, I don’t know if that feels like BS to me. And So just to to to be mindful of like your own, the importance of your own agency in the midst of all of this. But if it, it’s if those like, so like all of that, like, and also, I don’t know, given everything that’s going on in the world right now with like the Trump administration and Elon Musk and all that, like it does, it does sort of feel like there’s this sort of like battle of like powers and principalities playing out right now.

(31m 5s):
And so like if that sort of like language is like meaningful to you, cool, tap into that. But just like make sure that you like know how it’s being used and how you’re defining all the terms and that it’s, that it’s like moving you somewhere and not sort of like disconnecting you from your intuition, from your agency, from your wisdom. Alright, and we’ve got one more question. This is another one from Destiny and also we’re gonna listen to it now. What do you all think about the Divine Mercy prayer for context? I pray the Chapel of Divine Mercy. It what first used to me to pray for my dad because I was afraid he wouldn’t be in heaven.

(31m 45s):
And it was like my granny way of consoling me, but now it just kind of fell into a thing I do to commemorate a day when I’m grieving someone. My dad dealt with an opioid addiction And I was back in a lot more scared for his soul than I am now. All right, so Brian, what do you, what do you think about this divine mercy prayer and praying for praying in Grief and praying for people who have departed? I love it. The first thing that comes to me is just like, it’s really lovely that you found something that is like meaningful for you to help you move through your Grief.

(32m 32s):
And so like, if that’s working for you, like yes, pay attention to that. Shannon And I are both big proponents of virtual for all sorts of aspects of our lives. And like this is an example of a ritual. We have more information about virtuals and how you can build your own inside of spiritual study hall. Again, that’s Queer Theology dot com slash community to find out more information. But I, and also I’m just sort of struck that like, this is a thing that lots of traditions have like figured out that like Grief, like death is enormous and Grief is hard and having some things to help move you through that, it is powerful.

(33m 14s):
It reminds me of Judaism, we say the mourner’s Scottish for a year after a person dies traditionally every single day for a year after a person dies, and then every year on the anniversary of their death. And like, I think that probably thousands of years ago, and maybe still today amongst like some orthodox and super super, super religious Jews, there’s this sense that like, you ha it’s, it’s an the obligation of their survivors to pray the mors Kaddish on behalf of the deceased person so as to like ensure that they get to heaven. Jews, most Jews these days like don’t really believe in heaven in this, in that sort of like way anymore.

(33m 56s):
And certainly don’t believe that. Like if no one prays for you, you’re not gonna get to, to get into heaven. I, And I think like many Jews now recognize that like it’s mostly for us, like we, we do this thing to help us move through this process and also as a way to honor these people and to keep their memory alive. And so like you’re also like not alone in like being like afraid of the, the FTA that your dad’s soul, right? And wanting to do something, to pray a prayer on this side of death to help your dad out. That’s a beautiful impulse. I think the message that I would give is that like your dad is like, okay, and you don’t have to worry that your prayers will get him into heaven or that your prayers will keep him out of heaven or that like he didn’t get into heaven because it’s something that he did.

(34m 47s):
I just really don’t think that that’s the way, like heaven and hell works. And also like if this is something that is like honoring of your father and meaningful to you, then like that’s a beau I think it’s a beautiful practice. And I say mourner’s, Kaddish for my, my best friend who is sort of like the heart of our chosen family. I, I view him as a sibling. It’s like every year in the anniversary of his death, I say kadish for him because like, ’cause like, we need, we need tools like this. And so like, absolutely. It’s beautiful. Yeah, I I fully agree with all of that. I, I remember, I think it was Marcus Bork who said something like, you know, I, I don’t know what happens after we die, but I trust that the love that held us in life continues to hold us after, after death.

(35m 28s):
Mm. And and that to me, I, I used to really think that like you couldn’t pray for those who departed. But there, there was also Madeline Engel, I think had had this quote where she was talked about, she’s like, I don’t stop loving someone after they die. So like, of course I’m going to continue to pray for them because like I continue to still love them. And I think that was really helpful for me in, in realizing that, again, like, it, it feels like it’s mostly for me, right? Like it’s, I am, I am I am praying for this person that I love who isn’t here any longer And I don’t necessarily know that it’s doing anything for them, but I definitely know that it’s doing something for me and it’s connecting me and reminding me of them and the love that I had for them and the love that they had for me when they were still alive.

(36m 20s):
And like, I think that that’s a really beautiful thing. And I think whatever helps us to move through Grief is really important, right? Grief is a tricky, tricky beast and it, it’s not linear and it’s not clean and it’s not any of those things. And so like rituals can help ground us in that. And like Brian said, you know, I, I think that, I think that we don’t have to do it out of a sense of anxiety that if we do it wrong or we don’t pray it enough or we whatever, that this person won’t be cared for. Like, I think that we have to let, we have to let go of that kind of pressure and anxiety.

(37m 1s):
But this sense of using prayer as a connective tool, as a way to move through Grief as a, a reminder of love and connection, I think that that’s a beautiful and healthy and really powerful thing. And for you, destiny, if you’re worried that your dad is in hell, or if any, to anyone listening your life, if, if you’re worried that someone who has died has like maybe gone to hell or that you might go to hell, or that if they were to die, they would go to hell. That is a really terrifying thought and like, understandably, understandably, super worrisome. And so we have an episode as part of our scary Things you might have learned in Church series all about like, will you end up in hell? And so it might be helpful to sort of revisit that topic. That’s episode number 4 26 and the title is Scary Things.

(37m 42s):
Will You End Up in Hell if you wanna sort of tackle this topic of hell and people ending up there, head on On. All right. And just as a reminder, if you have a question that you want us to answer on the podcast, go to Queer Theology dot com slash podcast. There are a couple of different ways that you can submit questions, you can submit them in writing or through a a voice note. We would love to tackle your question on an upcoming episode. And until then, we will see you next time. See you next week. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To Dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com.

(38m 23s):
You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post Grief, Demons, Agnostics at Church: Listener Q&A appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Fr. Shannon shares a sermon exploring the story of Doubting Thomas from the Gospel of John for this episode. He delves into themes of fear, doubt, and faith, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging doubt as a natural part of faith, particularly in the face of suffering and uncertainty. May we be a little more like Thomas in the sense that it feels like he was being reasonable. And may we embrace our doubts and continue to show up for our communities, promoting peace and justice despite challenges.

Takeaways

Doubt is a natural part of faith.
Thomas’s demand for proof is reasonable.
Historical context is crucial for understanding scripture.
Fear can lead to isolation and doubt.
Jesus offers peace in times of fear.
Community support is vital during struggles.
Faith can coexist with questions and uncertainty.
Showing up for others is an act of faith.
We are loved despite our doubts.
Our actions for justice matter, even when we doubt.

Chapters

(03:46) Exploring Fear and Doubt

(06:32) Historical Context of the Gospel of John

(09:46) Thomas’s Reasonable Doubt

(12:36) Faith Amidst Suffering and Questions

(15:25) Benediction and Reflection on Doubt

Resources:

Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how Tuning each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello and welcome back to the Queer Theology Podcast. Today we’re gonna do something a little bit different, and I’m gonna offer a sermon based on John 20 verses 19 through 31. You’ll recognize this. This is the passage famously known as the Doubting Thomas passage, and this is a new take on it.

(50s):
So let’s start by reading John 20. It was still the first day of the week. That evening while the disciples were behind closed doors because they were afraid of the Jewish authorities, Jesus came and stood among them. He said, peace be with you. After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. When the disciples saw the Lord, they were filled with joy. Jesus said to them, again, peace be with you as the Father sent me so I am sending you. Then he breathed on them and said, receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven. If you don’t forgive them, they aren’t forgiven. Thomas, the one called Didymus, one of the 12, wasn’t with the disciples. When Jesus came, the other disciples told him, we’ve seen the Lord, but he replied, unless I see the nail marks in his hands, but my finger in the wounds left by the nails and put my hand into his side.

(1m 38s):
I won’t believe after eight days, his disciples were again in the house and Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were locked, Jesus entered and stood among them. He said, peace be with you. Then he said to Thomas, put your finger here. Look at my hands. Put your hand into my side. No more disbelief. Believe Thomas responded to Jesus, my Lord and my God. Jesus replied, do you believe because you see me happier? Those who don’t see and yet believe, then Jesus did. Many other miraculous signs in his disciples presence, signs that aren’t recorded in the scroll, but these things are written so that you will believe that Jesus is the Christ God’s son, and that believing you will have life in his name.

(2m 23s):
I was kind of a nervous kid. Maybe it was growing up with a steady diet of people talking about the imminent return of Jesus or the threat of hell, or the ridiculousness of eighties satanic panic or growing up in a rural area where there were strange sounds at night and the darkness felt impenetrable, And I was a sensitive child attuned to the moods of everyone around me, which meant I was often afraid And I tried to overpower that fear with faith. If I could just do all of the right things, I would be okay. If I could just believe harder, believe all the right things, I’d be filled with favor. I remember distinctly hearing today’s story from the gospel of John growing up, every sermon focusing on Thomas’s doubt and saying how wrong he was.

(3m 10s):
Every sermon too, focusing on the line you believe because you have seen, but blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe, and the pastor would encourage us all that the writer was talking about us. We were the ones who hadn’t seen and yet believed, and so we better keep believing or else, okay. They didn’t say it quite like that, but that’s how it sounded to a nervous kid sitting in a pews. So what do we do with this story? What do we do with doubt and faith and poor old Thomas? Now, some of you might be looking around a sanctuary that you’re sitting in, which was really full on Easter and is well less full this week and patting yourself on the back because you showed up on the weeks after Easter.

(3m 55s):
You are obviously full of faith, but maybe even as you sit there in the pew or listen to this podcast, you are feeling these secret doubts nagging at you, wondering why things are so hard, wondering why you’re suffering the way you are. Wondering why it feels like there is silence from God. You look around at the world and you see the violence. You see the inequality, you see the suffering, and you wonder what good faith is and where is God in the midst of all of this struggling. But then you feel guilty for feeling those things, chastising yourself for your lack of faith, feeling like if you just believed harder or did more or prayed with more fervor, then God would show up for you.

(4m 41s):
You feel caught between your desire for faith and your very real doubt, and you worry that the Bible condemns you at every turn. So let’s look at the story from John 20. It can be easy sometimes when we know a story really well to gloss over the details. Yeah, yeah. We know this. We’ve heard this a million times before, but as we enter into a text that might be well known, let’s try to see it anew. The Easter story ends on a triumphant note. Jesus is risen, risen, hallelujah. But today’s story starts back in a place of fear. Jesus’. Friends and followers are huddled together, hiding in a locked room.

(5m 22s):
They haven’t yet received the good news of the resurrection in their minds, in their bodies and souls. They are in a place of despair and fear. Their friend, their leader has been killed and they’re afraid there. Next, it’s important for us to start there to sit with them for a moment in that place of fear. And just a note on some historical context before we go further, the gospel of John was the last of the gospels to be written about 20 to 30 years later than the other gospels. It’s drawing not only on a large body of oral history and testimony, but also on a theological base that was still evolving and changing. It was also written in a community that was separating further and further from the Jewish communities.

(6m 7s):
It had started out belonging to as these divides deepened and conflict grew, we see more and more blame cast on Jewish authorities in John whereas other earlier gospels more rightly blamed Rome. We have to center our understanding of this anti-Jewish sentiment in its context. These stories were written by folks and two folks still who still considered themselves Jewish, but who had probably been expelled from their Jewish communities. After the destruction of the temple by Rome, these Jewish people who were now devoted to Jesus were angry at what they felt was an unfair expulsion from their home communities. So they lashed out at the religious leaders. So on the one hand, this is an intercommunal argument written by a group that considered themselves still part of the Jewish faith.

(6m 53s):
On the other hand, at the time this was, this text was written, both of these communities, the Jewish communities and this new community of Jewish Jesus followers were both marginalized communities under the occupation of Rome. So we have to be really careful when we read and speak about these texts today in our context, which is very different, and where especially in the United States, the Christian Church is dominant and Jewish communities are still marginalized and oppressed. We also come to these texts with centuries of antisemitism, often done in the name of Christianity, and using these very texts as justification of that bias. The writer of the gospel of John is writing to a very specific community with very specific concerns, and sometimes those concerns get heard differently.

(7m 41s):
The further we get from their context, the further we get from their context. So we have to tread with care. So this specific community existing a generation after Jesus’ death and resurrection, trying to keep the faith as they are isolated and alienated from the communities they once called home are also afraid. They would’ve identified with those terrified disciples locked into that room wondering where it had all gone so wrong. And let’s note too that while the women were going to the garden to bear witness and to attend to Jesus’ body, these men were hiding away. The men were giving into their fear. They’re hiding away.

(8m 21s):
They’re in a locked room, and it’s in this place, in these circumstances that Jesus appears to them and his first words are peace be with you. These are people who needed to be offered peace. Jesus offers them peace and then reinstates their mission. As God has sent me, now I am sending you, he gives them the Holy Spirit by breathing on them. It’s as if he’s saying, get out of this room, get back to work. The mission isn’t over. Jesus is telling his friends that they are to carry on What he started. Started. Then we’re told that Thomas wasn’t with them when Jesus appeared, we don’t know why.

(9m 1s):
We don’t know where he was, but he comes back and the disciples tell him what he’s missed, and Thomas basically says, unless I see him for myself, I’m not going to believe I need to see that Jesus is alive. I need to see that he’s the same person by seeing the wounds in his hand and side, I need to see Thomas gets a lot of flack for this. Here we are over 2000 years later and we’re still calling the guy doubting Thomas, and it’s easy to focus on Thomas’s disbelief, his desire to see it for himself, his demand for physical proof. It’s easy too, because of how we’ve often been taught the story to blame Thomas to say he’s being unreasonable to say he should have trusted his friends in their story to say he should have trusted God.

(9m 49s):
It’s easy to blame Thomas for his doubt and say, we would’ve been different. But as I’m reading this text, again, there’s a part of me that wonders if Thomas is the only one who’s being reasonable. Thomas wasn’t willing to just believe because he’d been told to. Thomas wasn’t willing to get swept up in popular opinion. Thomas was looking around and saying, I need to actually see. I need some proof. And it makes me wonder too, where Thomas was while the others were hiding. It makes me wonder if he was out there trying to keep things going, if he was checking on other people, if he was continuing to spread the message.

(10m 31s):
It makes me wonder if while people were hiding, he was working, he was being brave. We don’t know of course, but I wonder, And I wonder if the writer of the story felt guilty and wanted to take Thomas down a notch or two, it wouldn’t be the first time. We’ve seen a dig like that in the Bible and even in the gospels as rival communities tried to tell the story that made their founders look the best. What if we consider Thomas as behaving reasonably? How does that change how we read the story? So now it’s eight days later, the disciples are again in a place with locked doors, pay attention to that Jesus has appeared to them, given them a mission, given them the Holy Spirit, and they’re still hiding.

(11m 17s):
They’re still behind locked doors, and we’re gonna say, Thomas is the one dropping the ball. Thomas is the one who’s doubting. These other guys have seen Jesus. They’ve heard him give the continued missing mission and they’re still hiding. So now Jesus enters again. He again offers peace, and he offers Thomas the proof he asked for, and here’s what I find striking Thomas said before, unless I put my finger in the wounds, I won’t believe Jesus says, here you go, touch away. And Thomas doesn’t. He simply says, my Lord and my God. Now, this too is important because calling someone Lord in the time of Rome meant something.

(12m 2s):
It was a treasonous slogan If you were calling Jesus Lord, it was because you were saying Caesar wasn’t. So, Thomas not only immediately believes, but also offers a statement of belief that is stronger than anyone else. I also find it striking that Jesus was willing to give Thomas what he needed in order to believe He didn’t tell him. He shouldn’t have asked Jesus’s statement, do you believe because you see me happier? Those who don’t see and yet believe, while some people read it as sarcastic, it could just as easily be a statement of fact or a later addition to provide comfort to a community, a generation after Jesus’s time on earth, people who definitely hadn’t seen, and yet were still believing sometimes in our rush to move past hard feelings.

(12m 49s):
We intentionally or not shame people for being reasonable. I don’t know about you, but sometimes when I look around at the world, it’s easy to feel despair. It’s easy to feel hopeless. It’s easy to feel doubt when we see wars and threats of wars, when we see children getting sick and dying, when we experience the death of people close to us, when we see attacks on the vulnerable, when we see people filled with hatred, it’s easy to look around and ask, where is God? Where is God in all of this? Where is the hope? Where is the promise? In fact, to look squarely at the pain of the world and simply shrug our shoulders is the antithesis of being reasonable.

(13m 31s):
And yet, that’s what so many want to ask us to do. Just keep going. Keep your chin up. Keep the faith. God is in control. What if the reasonable thing to do, the faithful thing to do is to ask for some proof or at the very least, to acknowledge the pain and the suffering? Thomas waited for eight more days to see Jesus eight more days without the proof. But you know what? He stayed. He didn’t leave. He didn’t run off. He didn’t abandon them. He stayed in the midst of not knowing. In the midst of waiting for proof, in the midst of the questions, in the agony, he stayed. And that to me feels like the most faithful act of all to stay when it’s hard to show up when you don’t know how it’s going to turn out to keep doing the work, even when it doesn’t seem to be making any difference, to love to do justice, to promote peace, even in the face of all that’s hard, and sometimes it’s going to seem unreasonable, and sometimes we’re going to want to ask for proof or encouragement or a sign, and that’s okay.

(14m 38s):
So no matter what you’re feeling today, no matter what doubts you carry, no matter what despair you feel, no matter what situations, feel hopeless, show up like Thomas, filled with doubt, filled with questions, and willing to be there with your community. Anyway, we are not condemned by our doubt or shamed for our questions. We are loved in the midst of them, and still we show up still. We follow in the way of justice still. We follow in the way of the justice of Jesus. Still, we are given peace and we offer that peace to others still. We believe that nothing we do for the benefit of others, no matter how hopeless or unreasonable it seems, goes unnoticed or undone, it all matters.

(15m 25s):
So let us show up in all of our messiness with all of our questions, with all of our frailty. Let us show up and do good as best we know how. Amen. I offer today as a benediction, a prayer for our wounds from the Reverend Mike abuse. Thomas gets a bad rap, holed up in that room, hiding from harm. Everyone knows you shouldn’t believe everything you hear. So why do we dismiss his doubt? Trust but verify worthwhile rumors. Don’t mind being investigated. Justifiable. Faith doesn’t mind being substantiated. Not everything deserves your, not everyone deserves your vulnerability, but you still deserve to be touched no matter the depth of your skepticism or the depth of your pain.

(16m 17s):
Don’t preach, reach out and in the story isn’t over for worse and better. Let it stretch you like the scar you are. Perhaps we don’t need a solid savior, but rather a salve that simply tells the truth about the trauma and leaves room for us to hear the healing happening in the heartbreak. Amen. May you go in the peace of God, the love of Christ, and the power of the Holy Spirit. Amen. The Queer Theology Podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for BTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com.

(16m 59s):
You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post Maybe Doubting Thomas Was The Only Reasonable One appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re honored to have religious scholar, preacher, teacher, and activist, Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney on the pod this week. Rev. Dr. Gafney is a biblical scholar whose work focuses on translation of the scriptures for congregations and lay readers, womanist and feminist biblical interpretation and women who prophesied in ancient Israel and the ancient Afro-Asiatic world and their reception in rabbinic literature. She is the author and translator and wrote “Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to Women of the Torah and of the Throne” and its sequel, “Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to Women of Joshua Judges, Samuel and Kings.” She co-edited “The Peoples’ Bible” and “The Peoples’ Companion to the Bible.” Dr. Gafney is an Episcopal priest canonically resident in the Diocese of Pennsylvania and licensed in the Diocese of Texas and a former Army chaplain and congregational pastor in the AME Zion Church. Her lectures and sermons are widely sought after in academic and Jewish and Christian congregational spaces in the US and in the UK. In this conversation, Dr. Gaffney discusses the Womanist Midrash project, exploring the intersection of womanism and biblical interpretation. She emphasizes the importance of context in understanding scripture, the role of translation, and the significance of centering marginalized voices in religious narratives. Dr. Gaffney also introduces the Women’s Lectionary project, which aims to highlight women’s stories in the biblical text, and addresses the challenges of biblical illiteracy in contemporary faith communities.

Takeaways

Midrash fills the spaces between the letters and gaps in the story.
Womanism is invested in the wellbeing of the entire community.
Biblical interpretation is not just about facts but about the stories that shape identity.
Translation is inherently interpretative and should be approached with awareness.
The Queen of Sheba’s story reveals the richness of shared religious traditions.
Understanding context is crucial for interpreting biblical texts.
The Women’s Lectionary project aims to center women’s voices in scripture.
Marginalized voices enrich the understanding of biblical narratives.
Biblical illiteracy can be addressed through guided reading programs.
Engaging with scripture can be both devotional and academic.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction to Womanist Midrash

(03:03) The Intersection of Womanism and Midrash

(06:04) The Role of Translation in Biblical Interpretation

(09:06) Exploring Biblical Stories: The Queen of Sheba

(11:54) Understanding Context in Biblical Narratives

(14:56) The Women’s Lectionary Project

(17:56) The Impact of Centering Marginalized Voices

(20:59) Navigating Biblical Illiteracy

(23:56) Conclusion and Resources

Resources:

Learn more about Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney at https://www.wilgafney.com/
Womanist Midrash Volume 2 by Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney
Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how Tune in each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Okay. Full fanboy disclosure alert. Shannon And I have been wanting to get today’s guest on the podcast for many, many years, and today is finally the day. I’m so excited to share this conversation with you with Dr. Will Gaffney. We had a really powerful conversation about sacred stories and sacred communities and the intersections between those two.

(56s):
How to see ourselves in those stories and in the traditions, and to really look at the importance of going, looking for people that have always been there, but that perhaps the dominant powers straight, cis, white, male, European, have tried to silence or play down, or I ignore. They’re so, so, so, so, so many insights from this conversation. I think you’ll hear me say summary here, that we could keep on going for a, you know, a few more hours. There’s just so much to dig into. So after the episode, pop on over to our Instagram and leave a comment on this post for what was your most meaningful insight from today’s conversation, because I know there are just so many.

(1m 36s):
It is a jam packed conversation. Today we’re joined by the Reverend Dr. Will Gaffney, who is a biblical scholar whose work focuses on translation of the scriptures for congregations and lay readers, womanist and feminist biblical interpretation, and women who prophesied in ancient Israel and the ancient Afro Asiatic world and their reception in rabbinic literature. She’s the right Reverend Sam b Halsey, professor of Hebrew Bible at the Bright Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas. She’s the author of a Woman’s Lectionary for the whole church years A, B, and C, and a novel year W, which is a standalone volume and translator of its biblical selections.

(2m 17s):
She’s also the author of a Womanist Midrash, A Reintroduction to Women of the Torah and of the Throne, and its sequel Womanist Midrash, A Reintroduction to Women of Joshua Judges, Samuel and Kings. She co-edited the People’s Bible and the People’s Companion to the Bible. Dr. Gafney is an Episcopal priest, canonically resident in the Diocese of Pennsylvania and licensed in the Diocese of Texas, and a former Army chaplain and congregational pastor in the AME Zion Church, a former member of the Dorsha Dera Reconstructionist Minion of Germantown Jewish Center in Philadelphia. She has co-taught courses with and for constructionist Rabbi Seminary pa.

(2m 60s):
Her lectures and sermons are widely sought after in academic and Jewish and Christian congregational spaces in the US and in the UK. She’s a public facing religious scholar, preacher, teacher activist, and an amateur watercolorist. Thank you so much for being here with us today. Dr. Gaffney, Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. We’re so excited to talk about your work and introduce hopefully more people to it. So thanks for being here. My pleasure. I’d love to start by asking if you can just tell us a little bit about the Womanist Midrash Project. You know, how did that project come about? And maybe for folks in our audience who might not know what Mid Rush is, if you can give a brief description or definition of that.

(3m 41s):
Alright. Mid is a Jewish classical practice of biblical interpretation that continues into the present and it has delineated rules for rabbinic literature, and in the contemporary context, it has become much more wide open. One way to think about biblical interpretation in this context is to imagine a page of Torah if you’ve seen one or even a page of your own scriptures, and think about the letters and the spaces between them.

(4m 24s):
Midrash fills the spaces between the letters and gaps in the story, making stories more complete, rich and full. I did study rabbinic literature in my PhD program with Jewish faculty members, And I spent a decade as a member of a synagogue while I was teaching in Philadelphia, and I’m now a member of one here. And I say that to make it clear that this is not an opportunistic, but that I am not appropriating a Jewish practice, but rather in some contemporary modes of thought in Jewish scholarship and Jewish biblical interpretation, sermon writing, that anytime anyone expounds on the Hebrew scripture, they are doing midrash.

(5m 24s):
So that, that’s a brief overview of the origins and contemporary use of midrash. Womanism is black feminism, a feminism that is richer, deeper, thicker, and more complex, while classic white women’s feminism really centered on breaking through power structures, getting a place at the table, black women’s feminism womanism is much more comprehensive. It is invested in the wellbeing of the entire community and it centers black women’s thoughts and experiences because if a policy is not good for black women than it is not good for anyone, womanism will look at the complex array of identities, often focusing on two or three in a particular project while attentive to the intersectional harm that comes from the way the dominant culture wields its force against those identities.

(6m 41s):
That, by the way, is the proper definition of intersectional, the harms that accrue as a result of the different identities not having multiple identities. Yeah, yeah. So then, then you embarked on this bringing these two ideas and fears of, of knowledge together in the Womanist Midrash project. And I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit about, you know, how that came to be and and what your hope is for that project. Really, they came together in me as a biblical interpreter because of my roots in the black church.

(7m 24s):
I was very familiar with the preaching practice known as the sanctified imagination. And when I began to study biblical interpretation as a scholar, I intuited that the sanctified imagination was an indigenous form of mid rash, if you will, that it was the way black folk interpreted scripture, particularly black preachers who were brought up in the black church, and they had a lot of similarities in their storytelling aspect. So it was natural for me to fuse my academic work with my religious life.

(8m 8s):
That’s a very common practice among black folk in the religious academy. We are more often than not, practitioners of a faith tradition, and even those who are now outside of a faith tradition tend to remain on good terms with it, and it informs their own work. So the way that I attend to biblical translation, which became something that I found that I loved and would become a hallmark of my own scholarship, focused on getting everybody on the page in the story with my first book, women Prophets, daughters of Miriam Women Prophets in Ancient Israel.

(8m 56s):
Because when we say the word prophets or the corresponding Hebrew word ne, it’s a collective. And so many of the biblical expressions have been translated in virtually 1960s English as mankind. Some old Bibles, you’ll see the Sons of Israel. Well, they didn’t leave the daughters behind. So I began translating in a way that made it clear. So for those expressions that were called masculine, plural, I, I renamed them as common plural because they were grammatically, the rules of grammar are you have to have at least two people, and only one of them has to be male.

(9m 42s):
But just as an English grammar, I could say to a bunch of women, you guys, let’s go biblical Hebrew does that, and Naomi uses masculine form for Ruth and Opa when there are no males among them. So I would translate something like the Children of Israel, which you would see in a lot of Bibles or the Israelites, but I found those to be unsatisfying, And I started writing The Women, children and men of Israel. So then I would need to explain in my writing why my translations of the scriptures look different from other people’s.

(10m 22s):
And that combination of translation and explanation, deep linguistic based exegesis, and then telling a story about the character, those became the key components of Womanist Midrash. Hmm. Yeah, this is a little bit of like a, it may be in the weeds, I’m Jewish, and it, it just like what you’re doing like reminds me of how I think like in Christianity there’s sort of like this focus on sort of like getting the translation like exactly right. And is arguing over translations. And if you read any sidor, there’s like the Hebrew and the English, and they’re like basically the same thing, but like sometimes they’re not exactly the same thing.

(11m 5s):
Sometimes they’re like wildly different. Like I think that, and, But we all, there’s for millennia we’ve called these translations because there’s a recognition that all translation inherently is interpretation. And so I just like love that what you’re doing, like you were saying, like adds more nuance and color and depth to the, to the text. But part of the baked in antisemitism of the Western Enlightment Biblical Guild is that they were scholars and scientists and not moved by religion, and that they could determine what the precise translation was, unlike the people before them who laid claim to the text.

(11m 49s):
And so there’s a lot of this, we know what we’re doing with your text and we’re right baked in. And my early academic career was sort of under the umbrella that translation should be without interpretation, which is yeah. You know, impossible and nonsensical. So it was brushing up against that. That’s also easier to understand in Judaism because you are very much aware that the text, and indeed half the liturgy depending on what kind of Jewish community you belong to is in another language.

(12m 28s):
It’s been a joke, but it’s also true that there are Christians who have not known that the scriptures they read have been translated from other languages. Yeah. You know, people who not only just say that, you know, the King James is, is perfect and itself revealed from heaven, but you know, think that Jesus spoke English and yeah, for that matter was a white person and all this, this kind of thing. So one of the lectures I give now regularly is called the Invisibility of Translation, where I introduce people to translation and how it affects the text that they read.

(13m 9s):
And it’s always an eye-opening experience and shock and some other things. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I would, I would love to listen to that lecture. I feel like that would be so good for so many people. Well, it, there’s probably, there’s probably a version of it on will gaffney.com. Okay. I tend to post my things after the event. Great, great. I’m curious, as you were doing this, this Midrash project, what maybe some of your favorite stories were to dive into or the ones that maybe revealed something new that you hadn’t noticed before?

(13m 52s):
Oh my goodness, so much. In so many, especially now that there are two volumes. So I’ll, I’ll say something about the second volume. I decided to do The Queen of Sheba, and she can only be done properly with, she appears a little bit in the Quran, but it’s the hadit where her, the big part of her story is. But even bigger than that, in the Ethiopian sacred tradition, there’s basically an entire sacred work that tells the story of her encounter with Solomon and their child and all of these things.

(14m 39s):
So I put all of that together, that Keppra Nagas from Ethiopia, the Haddi from Islam, the Hebrew Bible, and a little bit of New Testament, she’s named a couple of times in the gospels. And so that was a different project because I was working with a whole lot of source material. And some of it is quite humorous. The, there is a tradition in the Haddi that the world’s first depilatory hair removing cream was invented for her because Solomon was dismayed by the amount of hair on her legs, which became visible when someone did something sneaky and had her walk over a surface that was smooth, reflective water, and they saw up her dress a little bit.

(15m 35s):
So, you know, those kind of things are humorous, but it calls us to recognize that this is a shared religious tradition, and our scriptural version of the story is only one ancient version. And people at the point when all of this literature was extant at the same time, very likely entertained the multiple sources together. The way we entertain multiple gospels that can’t even get their story straight about the resurrection, which is kind of the thing, right? Yeah. How many angels, Mary, Peter, John, who was running, who was there, who she was there clinging onto him by himself, at what point did she leave?

(16m 22s):
Did Peter run then where did the other angel go? I mean, it’s like a car wreck where you’re trying to get the same story out of the witnesses, but people will tell you with sincerity in their eyes that there are no contradictions in scripture. Yeah. We’re always like, it starts with Genesis one and two. Like they, they have different orders of creation. Like, come on, come on. I remember studying theology in undergraduate and learning about, oh, like the Jesus seminar where they were sort of like trying to just like get at like what was the real Jesus, right. And what was later on.

(17m 3s):
And I think that feels connected to this sort of like, project of white academia. And I, And I, but I, I know that for many people in our audience, they’re like, well, what actually happened in the Bible? Or which version of the story is correct? And can you just like talk a little bit about like what happened when you held all these different versions of these stories together? Not with the goal of like, well, which, which version was right, but sort of like what happens in the synergy amongst all the different tellings. And, and you, you also kind of hinted that this happens with amongst the gospels also. Like how do you, like, how, what do you make of these different versions of the stories and what sort of bubbles up from there?

(17m 44s):
Well, there’s a saying that I use in class, A text without a context is a pretext. Ooh. In order to understand the text, you have to understand the context. Just as a person who hadn’t been exposed to the speech or the character would not know what we meant by four score and 20 years ago, right? You’re in part of the American context, either by your education or by living and being raised in it, so you know what to do with those words. But if you are not a part of ancient Afro culture, you’re not a part of ancient Israelite culture and religion, which is not Judaism.

(18m 31s):
Judaism derives from it. But there are different religions, different cultural practices to some degree, different languages. The differences between modern Hebrew and biblical Hebrew, our legion, a whole present tense was invented for modern Hebrew. Biblical Hebrew doesn’t have one. So in knowing that context, one of the things that you’ll know, and this does apply to the gospels, this applies to antiquity. They were not a fact-based era of, of being, people told the things that were important to them in a narrative to compel and convince you.

(19m 22s):
They were not interested in what would be a hallmark of the post-enlightenment, just the facts. So you see differences across gospels, between gospels and epistles. Paul just mixed stuff up. My favorite one was what? That Sarah bowed and called Abraham Lord. Well, that’s not in there. He took a story of a verse in Deuteronomy about the commandments. And because this commandment was referred to as this word, he goes, oh, that’s Jesus.

(20m 9s):
And when it’s clearly clear, it’s very clear that it’s at the end of Moses giving not just the commandments, but retelling all of Israel’s story in a way that doesn’t line up with the previous books of the Torah, by the way. Yep. And Moses is saying, keep all of this, this whole thing, this word, this word of God, that whole thing is not Jesus. There’s a relationship between them, but not the same. So the way that people who are earnestly and faithfully and sincerely telling the most amazing story and experience they’ve ever heard, and the ancestral stories that are important to pass down to the children is not even intended to be read as factual as we say today.

(21m 5s):
Certainly not literally. So people make straw houses out of the, the bricks of scripture by trying to read them in ways that they were not intended to be read missing. Thank you. Stephen Colbert, the truthiness, I use that word with my students. What is the truthiness of the Exodus story? If there is no archeological evidence and there isn’t that 2 million people stomp through the desert going that way. The truthiness is that this is a foundational narrative that shapes Israelite identity and subsequently provides a basis for faith, for African slaves in the us and subsequently becomes a paradigm for coming out of the closet for gay folk.

(22m 1s):
And subsequently becomes, it holds all these truths in it. The archeological piece is irrelevant. Ooh. Yeah. Amen to that. I think there’s also some arrogance to like, to think that we now get outta objective truth, and we don’t do that anymore. Like you turn on Fox News versus CNN versus NBC, right? Like we’re, even today news is propaganda history books are written by the victor. Like it’s just like we’re, we’re, we’re still doing that. We just maybe kind of like dress it up in the guise of objectivity, right?

(22m 43s):
Sure. But this notion of literal scripture and truth comes down from what we call plantation religion, that it’s important to have an irrefutable source and an irrefutable hierarchy. And so those kind of readings were used Not just to, to invade, invent the American’s slovo, but also to set up these colonizing empires that presaged it. So these were strategic readings that would confer Godlike power on monarchs.

(23m 30s):
Nevermind they weren’t in the Israelite Judean monarchy family history. But now all of a sudden, all the crown heads of Europe are divinely anointed heads of the church, et cetera, et cetera. Well, except back to the point where you had popes, but you get this divine authority that becomes unquestionable and particularly for the, the Western church and the Western powers gets fused with scripture. There’s a thing in, in British history, well, you know, the national song is O Jerusalem.

(24m 13s):
There aren’t, they aren’t anywhere near Jerusalem, right? Yeah. And there’s a thing that the European wave of painting biblical characters as Caucasian wasn’t just, every culture gets to see God and the holy people in their image. But there is a period that the faces of the monarchs were used for the faces of the saints and the biblical characters to make a, a claim on divinity themselves. And then that became a very powerful witness to people who were not literate. That’s what stained glass did.

(24m 54s):
It told us the story of the scriptures that people could see when they couldn’t read themselves. And so there’s this fusing of monarchial identity and biblical authority. This is all just making me think like we talk a lot as part of our project of that storytelling is the way to change people’s hearts and minds that, you know, people can debate facts, but they can’t debate your story. And it also brings in this thing of like, it’s so important that we pay attention to the stories that we’re telling about ourselves as both as individuals and as a people.

(25m 35s):
Because those stories really impact our ethics and how we live our lives. And you know, we’re seeing that kind of writ large in the United States right now. So, so thank you for, for bringing out this, this piece of stories. I think it’s so, so important. Can, can you tell us, you also have this, this women’s lectionary project, which is both the, the cycle of lectionary texts, but then also a, a standalone year. And we started this podcast to do a queer reading of the Lectionary every Sunday. And we did that for a couple times through, and then decided we were gonna take a break from the lectionary for a while.

(26m 15s):
Yeah. But I’m wondering if you could talk a little bit about why that project and maybe what you felt was missing in kind of the quote unquote traditional lectionary that, that you wanted to create something different for folks Women. That’s the answer. Yeah. Well, you, you can restart with the lectionary because after we finish this year, your A will be up and you can start with a women’s lectionary. Yeah, yeah. I was preparing to preach, I don’t know what the RCL texts were, but they were wholly inadequate.

(27m 5s):
And I went on Facebook and Twitter and whined about them And I tweeted something like, what would it look like if someone built electionary around women’s stories? I have the exact wording somewhere. I have the tweet archived as an image. ’cause God knows what’s gonna happen with that site. Yeah. And everybody got in my mentions and responses, you do it, Dr. Gaffney, you do it. I was writing a grant for an extended sabbatical, and it was not going well because I found myself writing what I think they might want to hear to just give me the money so I can get this sabbatical, which is, you know, not a passion project that’s a failing and flailing desperation project.

(28m 3s):
So I just started scribbling it out and then I couldn’t stop writing. And that, and the timing was perfect, that that happened in 17. They did their considerations and made the awards in 18, And I had 2019 the entire 12 months to do the consultations, travel, get away to write, do all of that before I was locked in my house for three years. Yeah, yeah. The blessing is I didn’t lose that sabbatical year to covid. I had it. So that was 2019.

(28m 43s):
And in 2021 I published both the standalone and year a ’cause that’s all I was doing, you know, teaching class online of course. And then this is, so it was, and then B in the summer of 23 and see in the summer of 24. And what the lectionary does is it raises the whole thing to the ground as much as possible. I am an Episcopal priest And I wanted it to be particularly useful for those with the similar structure. So I didn’t wanna do a New Testament, an Old Testament, because that would limit it to who could use it.

(29m 28s):
So I had to have a first reading from the Hebrew Bible, a psalm or Canticle and epistle. Oh, I’m talking with my fingers And I can’t see them. This was, this was my trial during Covid because I talk with my hands And I learned to talk with my hands all the way up here. Yeah, yeah. All the way up here. Okay, three, Three, top up my face. So we’re up to the epistle and of course the gospel. And then, because I’m a Hebrew biblical scholar who specializes in translation, translation notes, so the preacher could, or the person reading devotional could immediately see why did that verse look like that? Oh wait, she says it right here.

(30m 9s):
Okay. You know, and then there are preaching prompts from people who’ve read a whole cycle and said, I never thought about these texts together. I’m still reeling over that translation. I don’t even know where to begin. I got you. The lectionary was characterized by being Hebrew Bible driven as much as possible. The asterisk with that are that we’re reading a for a Christian calendar sequence. And I really try to negotiate and hold a tension of how Hebrew Bible is used by the Christian Church.

(30m 52s):
And I wanted to demonstrate that it’s not a magic eight ball predicting Jesus. Right. So yeah, for example, I started with advent and instead of saying, what’s a Hebrew Bible text that works for advent, I thought about the story that we tell an advent and the annunciation is a huge part of it. Don’t get me started on why we tell the annunciation in December and not in March takes nine months to make a baby. But the Marian Annunciation in the New Testament is not a new thing.

(31m 33s):
This is something God did regularly in the Hebrew Bible. And so that notion that let me teach people Bible, let me see if, if I can take a chunk out of biblical illiteracy in the church, especially with the way they use the Hebrew Bible that can be super secessionist and co-opting and all of these things. So the four weeks of Advent had three Hebrew Bible annunciations, and then Mary’s annunciation building that pattern. So I wanted to translate in a way that people could hear everyone on the page. So the crowd surrounded Jesus, the crowd of women, children, and men.

(32m 17s):
And so then you find out that women are in all of these places. ’cause what’s a crowd? Everybody outdoors. So it has to have all kinds of people. Those translations, Joshua Annihilate, annihilated the Canaanites, women, children, and men reads very differently when you’re just saying, you know, Canaanites parasites hit tides, hitite, you know, all the ites. Then you start to come to account of the layers of genocidal violence in the text. So I picked hard pairings sometimes on Good Friday we read the Death of J’s daughter at the hands of her father, and we read the crucifixion story and we think about what it means to claim the death of a child as a religious necessity.

(33m 22s):
How horribly that can go wrong, how horribly that’s gone wrong in Christianity. So that’s the, the broad structure one, there are two other unique pieces with it. And that is I decided to use the female pronoun in the Psalms for people who have never heard God presented as themselves or as other than themselves. And because of the way that the title Lord functions as a slave holding title, I look to Jewish tradition, which does not say the divine name, it’s not knowable, it’s not pronounceable, but instead said Lord, not as God’s name, but as the thing you say, because you can’t say God’s name that got lost somewhere.

(34m 16s):
And that there are other things you can say like Hashem and Ham. Mako. And I developed a whole list of divine titles, some drawn from my experience from the black church, like the arc of safety, others drawn from the work of a Rabbi Rosenberg, things like wellspring of life. I made them explicitly feminine places, womb of creation. So all of those components characterize the lectionary, the women’s lectionary, a women’s lectionary for the whole church.

(34m 58s):
Yeah. So powerful. We, we had coherent Ro Shapiro on a few months ago and, and they also have a list of names for God. And I took a, an online course with them, and when I was reading through theirs, I was like, oh, just like thinking about all of the different ways to think about God, like womb of creation. Oh my God, that like really hit me. It’s just like so much richer than like, Lord God, you know, even like be universe. Right. Which sometimes in progressive spaces would be like creator. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So it, it’ll be interesting to see if where we’ve come up with some of the same names.

(35m 38s):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. I’m wondering if you can talk a little bit about what changes for a congregation, for a people when voices that voices are centered that maybe they’re not used to having centered, you know, we talk a a lot about how queer and trans theology and readings of scripture aren’t just good for queer and trans folks. They’re good for cis and straight folks as well. I’m wondering if you can just reflect on that a little bit. Well, that was one of the basic underlying principles of the lectionary, that there are something like 111 named women in the Hebrew Bible and only 52 weeks a year.

(36m 29s):
So there was no reason for the RCL to be as male focused as it was. And so the of the texts I was putting together in these different ways were all texts with women, or that addressed women, or as close as I could get them. So they were, these congregations were then hearing the gospel through stories of women, many of whom they never knew existed. They’re hearing the First Testament told through other people. And under the principle that we as women and other folk who were not identified at the time were supposed to have gotten the gospel right by only listening to stories of men.

(37m 14s):
Well then surely it worked the other way around. And I did that with gender in the lectionary. But it’s also the case that as my theology professor Kelly Brown Douglas said that where you sit in the arena of life either gives you view to what’s happening on the center stage, or your view is obscured by a pillar. And if you think you already know what this text means and what it can mean and what it should mean, then you’re closing off layers of illumination.

(37m 56s):
I mean, it is part of what we see on television with all of the specials telling this person’s story, whether it’s a crime story or a human interest story, because that person and that producer want the viewing public to learn something, see something, hear something, and people come away from those programs saying, you know, I never knew it was like that. I had no idea this culture was like that. I didn’t know that this religion did that. That same discovery, when you share another person’s story, is true when the story is a biblical interpretation.

(38m 39s):
I was thinking about this question made me think about why I started going to synagogue in the first place. I had an encounter with seminarians of different religious traditions that was curated for seminarians. And, And I was very taken with the chanting of the Torah, the chanting of Psalms, which is what we heard then. And later I heard the chanting of the Torah, but the discussion in the synagogue that I would become a member of the discussion of the texts, the people were drawing from a whole different set of knowledge and authoritative books and authors and doing some of the best text grappling I had ever heard.

(39m 26s):
It was a well-educated congregation. It was seminary professors and seminarians, but still lay people well, good chunk of rabbis, but still people had who had not studied these texts academically. And the conversation was so much richer. But I wouldn’t have had that if I believe that Christians, whether my black church upbringing or the dominant white church I find myself in, now that we know what the Hebrew Bible says. Yeah.

(40m 6s):
I’m, I’m thinking about what you just shared now, and like the past few things, there’s been this like through line, right, of at, at some point you mentioned trying to sort of like weave in a corrective to people’s biblical illiteracy. And the enunciation was like one of many enunciations that happens in, in throughout Hebrew scriptures. And I’m thinking about, we hear both from pastors and also from lay folks, similar themes from pastors. We hear like, well, I can’t like teach the Bible while I’m preaching like that. Ha. Like, it’s just too much work to do all of this biblical education, like from the pulpit, I just have to preach a good message. And maybe they’ll come to Bible study later and then from lay folks will hear like, the, this all sounds like well and good, but like I just wanna like read the Bible and have it feel comforting to me.

(40m 50s):
I don’t wanna like do all of this homework to read the Bible. And I’m, I guess I’m like wondering, like, do you have any words of wisdom for like either like why that’s important to do this sort of work or how to get started if it feels like daunting or overwhelming? Like how, like how do you begin to peel back your own sort of like biblical illiteracy either in your congregation or within yourself? So I would say use the church fathers as a model. You know, they had a fourfold way of reading scripture. They read scripture differently depending on what they were doing with it.

(41m 32s):
So reading scripture devotional is fine. And I would encourage people to do that. And I would say what you, what you find or discover for yourself is meaningful read prayerfully guided by the Holy Spirit, but understand that that meaning is not then what the text means for other people. What it has meant, what it means when you understand the language and the culture so that there are multiple levels. But I would certainly not say, well, you know, you can’t read the Bible unless you know, know all this context that I’m talking about.

(42m 17s):
But you need to understand what kind of reading that is that you’re doing. And the same with most Bible studies in church. We’re doing a church-based Bible study in this, and this is gonna be different from the way that you would study the Bible in university or in seminary and make the point that all of those are valid and like a layer cake. They add a lot when you read them together, which is why the church fathers would sometimes do all the readings at the same time. But we’ve lost that bit of our tradition to the people, to the literalists who say, and even the non literalists, the pastors who want the, the religious churchy meaning to be the only meaning.

(43m 15s):
Yeah. And in terms of you don’t have to have time to teach when you preach. I strongly disagree. Yeah, I think so. Do we? So I I do, I do both. I do both. And I’m not the only one who does both. But pastors are negotiating popularity contests in the pulpit and a whole host of other things you can and the constraints on their time and that that’s real. So pastors don’t always have time to do the kind of study on a text.

(43m 58s):
Yeah. That’s necessary. Yeah. That’s that’s different from I can’t do it in this one sermon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I I’m thinking of folks that like want to want to read the Bible expansively or are queer or are women or folks of color and they open up the Bible and because they haven’t studied in seminary or because they haven’t had a pastor do this sort of work for them, they open it up and they see, they read a passage and they think like, oh, here it says that like, because they just absorbed from the mainstream conservative Christian media, white media, like evangelical media. Like, oh, well here it says God as a man, or I’ve heard this passage say that sex is bad, or I can’t trust my desires.

(44m 42s):
And there’s not sort of like, maybe they don’t even want to believe that, but like, that’s just all they’ve ever heard. And I mean, obviously I’m gonna start telling people to, you know, go through The Women electionary as one starting point. But like, do you have a, like a, like what’s the, like the good word for people who when they open up the Bible, it like feels scary or they see condemnation or, or an angry God or an empire God in it. So those things are there, those things are real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it’s very much like going into a foreign country without a map. And that doesn’t always turn out well. You know, people begin these reading projects and they get to, sometimes it’s usually Leviticus Yeah.

(45m 30s):
That they, they fall apart. I had a Jewish men’s study group tell me that they made it all the way through. They go, they said, we go through the Torah, you know, during the year. So we decided, we decided, okay, we, we are doing all of this. I had a men’s bible study group in the synagogue say that because they go through the Torah during the three-year cycle, they wanted to read more. And so they started with Joshua because that was next after the Torah. They were so horrified by the violence and the calls for violence from God that they stopped.

(46m 14s):
And I had a talk with them about reading Joshua as a veteran, telling his stories. I was an army chaplain and we talked about the way that soldiers experience battle in the middle of it after it. And all the ways their stories differ from the official histories and how they are often the hero in their stories as a way of understanding the type of literature. Joshua, is to give them one way of looking at it. But it’s very difficult to just read without a guide.

(46m 55s):
Sometimes people have a very good experience of it, in part because of their prayer life or whatever is within them as an individual. But it is frightening and disappointing to other people and can be easy to be heard in prescriptive rather than descriptive terms. So what I would say is use one of the reading programs that does like a chapter of Hebrew Bible, a Psalm, and a chapter of New Testament a day. So you’re not just slogging through Leviticus For four weeks.

(47m 41s):
You’re encountering this difficult text along with a psalm that makes you, can make you feel better or more familiar territory. And something from the New Testament. I find that works fairly well. I love that suggestion. Thanks. I, I feel like we could keep talking forever, but I, I wanna be honoring of your time and so if, if folks wanna know more about you and and your work, where is the best place for them to connect with that? Will gaffney.com. Excellent. We’ll put that in the show notes. Thank you so, so much for the time that you’ve given us today. This is, this is gonna be really meaningful to a lot of folks, so we really appreciate it.

(48m 23s):
The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post Putting Women Back In The Story with Rev. Dr. Wil Gafney appeared first on Queer Theology.

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For this episode of the podcast, Fr. Shannon has a sermon for Easter to share with y’all as our sort of virtual community and congregation of sorts! And there isn’t a coffee hour after, but if you would like to join in discussions, come on into our community at Sanctuary Collective.

In this sermon, Fr. Shannon explores the significance of the resurrection of Jesus, emphasizing its relevance to our daily lives and the transformative power it holds for individuals and communities. This call is to revolution and to live out the principles of justice and love in the present. We encourage you all to actively participate in creating a better world, rooted in the hope and empowerment that the resurrection brings.

Takeaways

Easter is often viewed as a future promise rather than a present reality.
The resurrection of Jesus has implications for how we live today.
Women played a crucial role in the resurrection story, becoming the first evangelists.
The resurrection signifies a shift in community dynamics and relationships.
The movement of Jesus continues to inspire hope and action against oppression.
Living out the resurrection means engaging in justice and community service.
The promise of resurrection is a message of hope for the marginalized.
Fear should not prevent us from living fully and courageously.
We are invited to participate in the work of creating a better world.
Embracing our fears can lead to transformative action.

Chapters

(03:44) Easter’s Impact on Daily Life

(06:31) The Role of Women in the Resurrection

(09:30) The Shift in Community Dynamics

(12:25) Living Out the Resurrection Today

(15:29) Embracing Fear and Living Fully

Resources:

Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts From Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people and we want to show you how Tuning each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Alright. Happy Easter y’all. So a little piece of Queer Theology podcast history is when we first started this podcast a million years ago, episodes used to come out, I think on like Tuesday or th on, I think it was on Tuesday, and we had this idea that like folks who were preaching that coming Sunday as we were going through the lectionary could sort of use it and be inspired by it and incorporate that into their sermons if they wanted to.

(1m 2s):
And what we quickly found was that some pastors were listening to it, but there are a lot of non pastors, a lot of just like regular Christians were listening to it in lieu of what were in addition to going to their church services that it became sort of a Sunday sermon for them that they listened to on Tuesday. I know some folks would say, I actually wait until Sunday to listen to it because it’s kind of become my queer church. That whether they don’t have a, maybe you don’t have a church in your area that feels inclusive and affirming or you that so you don’t go to one at all or you do go to one, but there’s just sort of like they’re affirming, but maybe it’s not like as queer forward as you would like, and so you would like a little extra queerness in it. And so sort of like in that style as an homage to that, Shannon has a sermon for Easter that he’s going to preach for you and share for you today as our sort of like virtual community and congregation of sorts.

(1m 57s):
And this is a podcast, so there isn’t a coffee hour unfortunately after this, after this. But if you would like to join in discussions, not just today, but all throughout the day and the week and and the years coming into our community at Sanctuary Collective and you go to queer thou.com/community to learn about that. And with that, I’ll turn the mic over to Shannon for today’s sermon. Our gospel reading today is from Matthew 28 verses one through 10. After the Sabbath at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the tomb. Look, there was a great earthquake for an angel from the Lord came down from heaven coming to the stone. He rolled it away and sat on it. Now his face was like lightning and his clothes as white as snow.

(2m 41s):
The guards were so terrified of him that they shook with fear and became like dead men. But the angel said to the women, don’t be afraid. I know that you were looking for Jesus who was crucified. He isn’t here because he’s been raised from the dead justice. He said, come see the place where they laid him. Now hurry, go tell his disciples he’s been raised from the dead. He’s going on ahead of you to Galilee. You will see him there. I’ve given the message to you with great fear and excitement. They hurried away from the tomb and ran to tell his disciples, but Jesus met them and greeted them. They came and grabbed his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, don’t be afraid.

(3m 21s):
Go and tell my brothers that I’m going to Galilee. They will see me there. I grew up in a church where Easter was a big deal. We dressed up and had sunrise services and pulled out all of the stops. And yet at the same time, my church kind of sort of believed that the really important stuff theologically had happened on Friday with Jesus’ death. Sure, we believed in the resurrection and thought it mattered, but it mostly seemed to be about something that impacted what happened to us after we died. If we believed the right way, then we would get to go to heaven, but this idea of Easter of Jesus rising from the dead didn’t entirely have an impact on how we lived right here and now.

(4m 7s):
It was a future thing, so we celebrated but mostly about what would happen later. Well, I know the church that I grew up in was different than a lot of the churches you might have grown up in. I think for a lot of us, we carry the same kind of belief with us. The resurrection matters, but we’re not entirely sure why or it matters, but for the future, not for today, and before we can even get into that, it feels important to name that. I know Easter might bring up some disparate feelings for folks. For some of you, you absolutely believe in the resurrection of Jesus. No questions asked for others.

(4m 48s):
You might have some doubts or questions, some might not believe in it at all. Know that whatever you’re coming into the space with your questions, your doubts, your confusions are welcome here. And not only that, but centuries of scholars and theologians and pastors have had these conversations and don’t all agree. And yet we still have these stories that we keep on talking about and debating and telling year after year. Some of you might be hoping this sermon goes super fast that you can get back to music or to lunch still, others might feel like there is nothing new in this story.

(5m 30s):
You’ve heard it every year. You know the ending, And I hear you like Christmas. We know these stories. We think we have them all figured out, but I believe if we continue to grapple with them, we might still find ways to be surprised. So no matter how you’re entering this space today full of belief or full of doubt or just here to please your family, I hope we can go on a journey together to see what this story might have to say to us. Still in the newer testament, there are four stories of Jesus’ life and ministry called the gospels. Each of these stories tells about the resurrection of Jesus in a completely different way.

(6m 11s):
Each of the writers were trying to make sense of this story for their community and what they were going through. This story that we read today comes from the gospel according to Matthew. And we’re going to look at just this story and not try to cram all of the different stories together. Now in this account. Before we get to this moment in the garden, we need to pay attention to a few other things. Jesus’s disciples, the people who had been following him for years, the ones who left homes and families and businesses in order to join Jesus’s ministry and mission in this account in Matthew, the writer tells us that when Jesus is arrested, they all run away.

(6m 54s):
Peter Jesus’s right hand person is present during the trial, but he denies Jesus and then he too disappears. These men are now in hiding gone. They are not present at the cross. They don’t help to bury Jesus. They run away. And we can understand why Jesus’s ministry happens in the context of Roman occupation, the Roman government heavily taxes the people, earns money off of their labor and oppresses them at every turn. And when someone tries to fight back, they are killed. There are stories of lines of crosses. Lining the roads into towns is a symbol of what happens when you try to fight back.

(7m 36s):
Jesus comes onto the scene in this atmosphere picking up the mantle of many other prophets and activists and healers who say, we don’t have to live like this. We can live in a world where there is enough for everyone. We can live in a world where there isn’t oppression. We can live in a world where there is food and clean water and healthcare. We can look out for one another and well like many other prophets and activists and healers. This message doesn’t go over super well with the folks who are sitting at the top of the keep. The ones who are making money off of other people’s work, the ones who already have everything they need and worry. This call to help others means they’ll have less.

(8m 19s):
We’ve seen this story before. We see it still. And so Jesus is arrested. He’s tried as a criminal, as one who’s stirring up descent and his followers, his friends know that they might be next. And so they run and they hide. They’re heartbroken that their friend and leader is dead. They are terrified that they will be killed next. They feel like this movement that they have given everything to is a failure. They thought this time it was going to be different, but now here it is ending up like all of the other movements. Rome is still in power. They are still being crushed and now their friend is dead.

(9m 1s):
And so we can understand their desire to hide, to protect themselves. And yet after the Sabbath is over, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary come to the tomb in this account. They don’t come to anoint Jesus’s body because that’s already been done by the woman with the perfume before Jesus’ death. In this version of the story, they come to sit vigil. They come to make sure that no one can steal the body of Jesus. They come to make sure Jesus is not disappeared like so many others, they come to make sure their friend’s body is left alone. They come to the tomb knowing there will be guards there knowing they will be at risk and they come there anyway.

(9m 45s):
And when they arrive, they’re met with an earthquake and an angel and the angel rolling the stone away. This is an echo of stories and prophecies and language from Daniel language that the community would’ve known and recognized. Not only is something incredible happening here, it’s happening as part of our tradition. The women are given the call to go and tell the brothers that Jesus has risen. This is really beautiful for a couple of reasons. First, Jesus calls the disciples, his brothers, even after they ran away, even after they left him, even after they didn’t show up and denied. Jesus is saying restoration is possible. Not only that, there is still work to be done.

(10m 27s):
The movement isn’t over. So Jesus restores these men to relationship. And second, it’s the women, the faithful ones, the ones who showed up who get to be the bearers of this good news. They’re given the role of evangelists and as they turn to go and fulfill their role, they see Jesus in the garden and become not only evangelists, but also the first witnesses to the resurrection. In a time when women’s word wasn’t allowed in the court of law, in a time when women were on the margins, they become the first ones to see Jesus. They become the ones given the message and told to share it with others.

(11m 7s):
Share. In this story we see that something new is happening, A new way of being community, a new way of showing up for one another, a new way of organizing ourselves that doesn’t fall into the old notions of power and hierarchy. It’s important to pay attention to how radical it is that we even have this story. The gospels written years after Jesus’ life and death could have covered this up. They could have realized that this story would’ve made their claim about Jesus less likely to be believed. And yet they left it in. The fact that we have this story tells us that something new is happening, something important, something beautiful.

(11m 47s):
As we’ll see over the next several weeks, if you keep reading the lectionary texts, that even though Jesus is alive, people are still afraid, they’re still doubting, they’re still in hiding. Jesus was resurrected, but the church didn’t spring up, ready to go. They’re still floundering and nervous. They still didn’t quite know what to do. They still couldn’t really absorb how the resurrection changed things. One thing was clear, though nothing would ever be the same because the empire, the kings, the rulers had killed a poor prophet and leader of a nonviolent movement. And in the past that would’ve been the end of things. The movement would’ve scattered or changed directions or found a new leader.

(12m 27s):
But this time the leader comes back to life, the powers that be tried to quell a movement. But God said, no, not this time. And in the moment it became about more than a movement. People started to realize that now everything was different. This inbreaking of God into the world in Jesus shifted it all before the powerful always won. The poor were always beaten down, the people who had the most weapons and soldiers and might always won. But now it’s the little guy, the marginalized, the poor, the women, the oppressed living in occupied land. Now there something to hope for because if the empire can’t kill you, there is nothing really to fear and a people who aren’t afraid of dying, a people who cannot be killed, these people are dangerous.

(13m 21s):
As that started to sink in, the whole movement of Jesus followers shifted. They started carrying themselves differently. They started speaking with more confidence. They started making noise and making changes. And one could say that they changed the world. And we are inheritors of that. We are part of that movement that when lived out is still shaking things up and is still striving to bring about the kingdom of God right here and right now. And that my friends is good news and that is also our invitation. Will we do what’s right for each other, for our communities, for the least of these, even when it’s hard, even when it’s scary, even when it’s dangerous?

(14m 4s):
And that is the message for us here and now. It’s not about some future reward, it’s not about heaven when we die. It’s right here in this moment, in your city, in your state, we are called to continue the work of Jesus, which he laid out for us in Matthew 25 to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to visit those in prison. A reminder that when we do things for the least of these, we do them for Jesus. And a promise that if you are one of the least of these, if you live on the margins, if you are oppressed or left out or beaten down, that God is on your side. The promise of resurrection is God’s yes to you and God’s no to the powers that oppress.

(14m 48s):
And so whatever you’re carrying today, grief or stress, doubt, fear, know that God is with you. There is a word of hope for you in this ancient story. And know that the invitation to create a better world, to participate in the kingdom of God is open to anyone who will do their part. You are invited to play a part in the new creation right where you are by planting a garden, by feeding your neighbors, by working for justice, by standing up for someone who’s being beaten down. Every little bit helps. Will you answer the invitation? Will you do your part where you are? Can you imagine what would happen if we really lived this way, if we really believed that we can make a difference if we really believed that none of us were too small or too unimportant or too afraid, and instead did whatever we could to bring about the kingdom of God here and now, that would indeed be good news.

(15m 47s):
This call of Easter is for all of us to believe that God invites us into the work to believe that we can carry on the mission of Jesus, to trust that we can do it scared or full of doubt, the mission is entrusted to us just as we are. So may you play your part. May you seek justice. May you be a witness to the good news you have seen and invite others to join you in the work. And may we bring about the kingdom of God right here, right now, right in our midst. Amen. And I offer as a benediction a prayer for a remembered death by the Reverend Mike Abusey.

(16m 29s):
I was hemming and hawing about my fears. Will my body be safe? Will my mind be safe? Will my heart and lungs be safe? Should I make this choice? Should I raise my voice? Should I put my privilege and my life on the line? And my sweet and my sweet sister smiled and said, I once met a woman who shared that when her fear for her own life started to pull her back from actually living, she stopped and said to herself, I am already dead. And my brain broke open. I am already dead. I am dust And I am stardust. A fragile collection of glitter crumbs, ages old already honed by countless supernovas who decided to come together and dance for a short sacred time as one magical me made shape.

(17m 17s):
My cells and my soul will move together until the moment they tear apart and drift off to become another star, another shape, another fear-filled already dead living thing. So live you are already dead. And every tiny shiny particle that makes up your parts knows how to dance a revolution because they’ve done it all, endured it all and danced it all before you are new and you are infinite and you are finite. And that is freedom. So move with the courage of the supernovas who continue to shape this world. You were born to die like the brave beings who have blazed before, who looked fear in the eye and said, I’m already dead, so I’m gonna go outlive in.

(18m 4s):
You are dust in your stardust. And to both will you return. So turn it out while you’re here. Feel the fear, but also feel the fire that is not only burning you alive, but burning you to life. Amen. Alright, thank you so much for that message, Shannon. And to everyone listening who is celebrating Easter today, I hope you have a very happy Easter. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q, Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram.

(18m 45s):
We’ll see you next week.

The post The Revolution Starts Here appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Fr. Shannon’s book, “No One Taught Me How to Be a Man,” is out April 15th and he can’t wait to share it with y’all! In this episode, we delve into the complexities of masculinity, particularly from a trans perspective, and discuss the societal expectations and pressures that men face. Shannon emphasizes the need for a new understanding of masculinity that is inclusive and healthy, addressing the crisis many men experience today. This discussion is especially important as we head into a new era of men defined by evangelical Christian beliefs.

Takeaways

This book is about unlearning harmful masculinity.
Trans perspectives can offer new insights on masculinity.
Many men feel a sense of not being enough.
There is a crisis in masculinity affecting men’s health.
Healthy masculinity can improve relationships.
Men often struggle with societal expectations.
The book aims to provide practical steps for change.
Courage is needed to redefine masculinity.
Men’s closest relationships reflect their overall behavior.
The conversation about masculinity is ongoing and necessary.

Chapters

(02:08) Exploring Masculinity: A Trans Perspective

(06:44) The Crisis in Masculinity

(12:47) The Need for New Masculine Models

(17:02) Identifying Male Suffering

(19:25) Romance and Relationships in Masculinity

Resources:

Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community
Grab your copy of No One Taught Me How To Be A Man at https://www.queertheology.com/books/

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts From Genesis, revelation, the Bible declare good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how tuning Each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello. Hello. Hello. I am so excited for today’s episode of the Queer Theology Podcast because if you listen to this on the day comes out, it means that Shannon’s newest book, No One Taught Me How To Be A Man is coming out in just two days. We’re gonna share a bit of a sneak peek. I think this is an exclusive sneak peek the first time it’s been Anything from the book has been shared at length publicly, so you’re in for a treat and we’re gonna just like jam on masculinity and the book and more.

(1m 2s):
So I’m really excited about that. Shannon, before we dive into your book, your, your, your selection in just like a sentence or two. What is this book and who is it for and what do you hope to accomplish with it? Yeah, this is a book about masculinity mostly for cisgender men, but for trans and queer men of all stripes to think about what are the things that we might need to unlearn in order to be healthier men for ourselves and for all of the people around us. So it looks at like different models of masculinity and what they’ve taught us and what in those lessons might be good and what in those lessons might be bad. And so I’m really hopeful that it opens up a conversation for men who have been thinking that their masculinity or the way that they embody their masculinity might need, need to change, but they’re not quite sure how to navigate that.

(1m 53s):
I love it. And would you share a, like a selection from your book with us? Yeah, so this is, this is the introduction of the book, so it’s a, it’s a way to kind of let you know a little bit more about what I was thinking and who this book is for. When I posted online that I was writing a book about masculinity, someone commented, I’m sorry, you have nothing to add to this topic when you hear that I’m a transgender man, you might agree with that random internet commenter. As a trans man, my credentials might seem to some to be suspect, yet it’s this very identity that has helped me to see and understand masculinity in a new way. As a transgender man, No One Taught Me How To Be A man. I wasn’t raised as a man, nor was I indoctrinated into masculine spaces when I figured out my own maleness.

(2m 38s):
After a lifetime of wordless, not enoughness, I had to make a masculine space for myself. My sense from talking with many other men and extensively studying the research on masculinity is that even those who were raised as men feel they too had to figure it out on their own. The struggle to figure out what it means to be a man and how to feel like you’re enough gets more complex. As the world changes rapidly, we continue to look for models to help us sort out how to be in the world. As I tried to figure out what being a man meant to me, I went first to the various streams of conversations about men and masculinity, but in each of them I found something to be lacking. Some fundamental piece was missing. There were residences, but none of them fully explained my experience of the world.

(3m 20s):
Some were centered around body parts And I knew from experience that it wasn’t those parts that made me a man. Some were centered on healing relationships with other men, but I had close male friends and that wasn’t doing it either. Some were focused solely on how to get and maintain relationships with women, and that too felt like not the whole picture, something was missing. I did what many men tried to do. I experimented. I tried on lots of different ways to be a man from the hyper-masculine man to the fierce protector to the gentleman, until finding some kind of mix that felt authentic and didn’t do harm to the people around me. On that journey, I look to other men to media portrayals of masculinity, to feminist conversations about toxic masculinity.

(4m 0s):
And in each place I try to figure out where I fit and what was missing. I realized that my unique upbringing, my own journey and what I’ve experienced in moving through masculine spaces might help unlock something for men who have that same sense that something is missing but can’t quite figure out what. You might be wondering why we need another book about masculinity. Haven’t we spent enough time talking about men and men’s issues? On the surface, it certainly seems men have been centered in far too many conversations for far too long. And the spate of books about the various crises and masculinity seem designed to make that center hold. And yet, in the midst of all of these conversations, we seem to have found very few solutions talking about masculinity isn’t new.

(4m 43s):
While there haven’t been the same well-defined waves as there have been in the feminist movement, there have definitely been streams of conversation that overlap, argue with one another and try to solve the problem of masculinity. In this work, the question often becomes, is it masculinity that’s the problem, or is it men? Is it possible to separate the two? Is there a way to encourage healthy masculinity? And what happens if we disagree on what healthy masculinity means? People have posited all sorts of solutions to the issue. Some thinkers say, if we could just, if we could simply recover some kind of warrior ethos, we’ll be alright. Others say, we just need kinder and gentler men. Some have theorized that it’s about connecting with an absent father or healing your father wound.

(5m 25s):
Others want us to engage in initiation rights, often stolen from indigenous communities. There are some who believe the way forward is to eradicate gender entirely. Some say everything masculine is toxic, while others say toxic masculinity doesn’t exist, and people are just shaming men for being men. What’s often lost in the midst of these schools of thought is the average man just trying to get through the day. Men who feel like they’re floundering and don’t know where to turn for help. From my conversations with other men, many of us feel like something is missing, something isn’t right. We feel like there should be be more, But we have no idea how to get it. We continually feel like we’re not measuring up to what our partners want and are expecting to the other men in our lives.

(6m 6s):
To a society that seems to keep moving the goalposts, it feels like hyperbole. But when we look at the statistics, there is indeed a crisis in masculinity. This isn’t some far right talking point about how we need to man up, nor is it simply a liberal left viewpoint about eradicating all of gender. No, this is a real crisis that is threatening the health, relationships, and wellbeing of men. And because of the way many men have been raised and indoctrinated, when men are hurting, they tend to hurt the people around them. All you have to do to see that, that this threat is real is look at the data from men delaying going to the doctor, to men having few to no friends outside of their romantic partners to the high rates of suicide.

(6m 46s):
Not only that, but men are also struggling with how to parent, how to date and find partners and how to connect. These statistics affect not only men, but also everyone in those men’s lives. There are direct links between the ways men are suffering and the harm they do to other people. If we truly want a healthy society, we have to address this crisis. What we’ve been doing hasn’t been working. We need a new kind of thinking and intervention that will allow men to show up for themselves and others. This book is an examination of masculinity that isn’t centered on biology or body parts. It’s an exploration of what it might take to be a good man in this world that seems filled with toxic men. It’s about masculinity that centers women and other people of marginalized genders, but that also makes space for men to be themselves.

(7m 30s):
It’s a plea for a healthy masculinity, a wholehearted masculinity and a gentle masculinity. And it’s written by a man who had to figure out on his own what masculinity was. This book is for men. If you identify as a man, if you move through the world as a man, then you’re welcome here. We’re not going to define what makes a man in this book. I don’t care what body parts you do or don’t have. I don’t care who you’re attracted to or not attracted to. I’m not worried about your testosterone level or your chromosomes or your DNA if you’re a man. This book is for you. If you’re wondering if you’re man enough, you’re, if you’re wondering if I’m going to try to tell you to stop being a man, I’m not. If you’re wondering, if I’m going to prescribe a one size fits all version of masculinity, that once again leaves you out, then fear not.

(8m 13s):
And keep on reading this book, book won’t argue that there’s only one way to be a man and that trans men, queer men, and anyone who doesn’t fit the stereotype aren’t men. Nor will it say that masculinity is just fine. And the real problem is all the women getting so upset about things. I don’t think the way forward is to reclaim the past and bring back old notions of chivalry and manliness. So if you’re open to the conversation, then let’s have it. If you’re hungry to think about being a man in new ways, if you’re feeling lonely in your masculinity, if you’re feeling like there’s no room for you in the world anymore, this book is for you. If you’re feeling like all of the old ways are dying out and you just don’t understand why, then read on. If you’re wondering why it seems like so many men are dying by their own hands or struggling to form relationships or feeling isolated, then we’re in this together.

(9m 0s):
If you’re a trans man who’s trying to figure out how to inhabit your new id, if you’re a queer man who senses, you’ve got some unhealthy practices or coping skills to unlearn. If you’re still figuring out what masculinity means to you, you’ll find a place here. What we’re not going to do in this book is decide who gets to be a man and who doesn’t. That’s a losing game for all of us. It sets up walls. You might be surprised to find yourself on the outside of them for too long. This idea of one right way to be a man has left too many of us feeling like we’re not enough, we’re not tough enough or cool enough or strong enough. But on the other hand, there are men who feel like they’re not sensitive enough or quiet enough or gentle enough to fit in anymore. This book is for all of us as we try to figure out what it means to be men in our current world.

(9m 43s):
I’m not going to ask you to stop being a man. I’m not going to tell you that we need to abolish gender or get rid of the binary, but I am going to ask what we mean by masculinity. I’m going to invite a conversation about how we’re showing up as men, and if that’s actually serving us. I want us to open up the doors to the secret places where many of us are wrestling, but are afraid to say it out loud. Yes, we’ll talk about how to be better husbands and fathers, but in some ways that’s a side note. It’ll happen automatically if we learn to be healthier Men, if we learn to be healthier men, our relationships, all of them, friendships too will deepen. Our physical health will get better. Our mental and spiritual health will improve. We’ll see a shift in our relationship to ourselves and our communities.

(10m 25s):
Does that seem miraculous? I promise It’s possible if we show up, if we do the work, if we allow ourselves to ask the questions and really listen to the answers and change the ones that we don’t like. This book is inclusive of transgender men, obviously, as it’s written by one. And it’s inclusive of men who are gay or queer and of men who are straight and who have never questioned either their gender or their sexuality a day in their lives. Our experiences of masculinity will differ from each other based on our class, our race and ethnicity, and the ways we were raised. Instead of trying to flatten the experience of masculinity, we should open it up. We all have something to learn from one another. It’s no secret the world is changing and many of us are feeling left behind the jobs that were once highly coveted for, their security, longevity and high pay don’t exist anymore, and they’re not coming back.

(11m 13s):
The ways many of us were taught to be, to speak, to act, to treat others aren’t seen in the same light anymore. The ways we formed relationships in the past aren’t available to us. In a world of fast and easy connection, we are lonelier than ever. After years of struggling exploring and experimenting, I’ve come to an experience of masculinity that I dream of for all men. I want us to have ease in our bodies, to feel like we are enough to have solid partnerships, to feel capable and competent in our workplaces and our in our households. To have deep friendships, to be physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy and to be content. While this might sound like a far-fetched dream, I do believe it’s possible.

(11m 53s):
Make no mistake. It’ll take courage. Courage to go against the grain, courage to face our deepest selves. Courage to shift generational narratives. When we do these things, people will push back. It will be uncomfortable for us and others. We’ll have to learn new ways of being and speaking and hold tight to them even as it disrupts the those around us. Change is hard. It’s easier to just keep doing what we’ve been doing, even if it doesn’t work anymore. We need courage now more than ever. Courage to face what’s no longer working for us. Courage to shake off ways of being that are holding us back. Courage to lean into discomfort and take charge of our growth so we can be the people we wanna be. Here’s what I promise, it’ll be worth it.

(12m 35s):
Amen. That’s that’s, I mean, I read it and I’m still like big tingling from that. So I have, so a bunch of questions. One is you do a lot of different types of work and you have written and preached and taught on a bunch of different topics. Like how did you end up wanting to write a secular book about masculinity out of all the other books you could, you have written and might write and will write? I feel like this was a topic that just wouldn’t leave me alone. It, it’s one that I started thinking about like a while ago, but didn’t feel ready to write.

(13m 21s):
It’s, it’s funny how like sometimes that just happens, right? We, we have this idea, but then we have to kind of grow into the idea. And part of it was that, you know, when I started my transition, I started reading a ton of books about masculinity. Like I even did a, a self self-guided study on masculinity as like part of my seminary education, education. And from the very get go I was reading these books and being like, I don’t, something is missing here. Like even as I was still very new in my own masculine journey, I just, I was like, I, these, I feel like these men are just, they don’t, they can’t even see what they can’t see, right?

(14m 8s):
And that I am seeing something else like as a trans person reading these books. And so that kind of planted the idea in my head that it was like, I think that something about transness is opening up a new window. And then I read some, some more recent books that were like trying to help men be better partners, right? And these were books by women, cis women who were very much like in touch with wanting men to be healthy. And yet they too were making all of these assumptions that were really based on societal expectations and not reality. Right? Like Fair Play, which is a book about like yeah.

(14m 50s):
Household, which I love. I love it too. It was like a super, super help helpful book. And also there’s all sorts of stuff in that book that I was like, this is not, this is not gender. Like this isn’t gender that you are assuming. Yeah. Like you’re making all of these assumptions. And and then there was another book also by a cis woman also, not To, not to knock on fair play, but like my partner And I read it and we had to, we’re like, well, we have to do a lot of translating ’cause this is like very clearly Yes. Meant for a like man, cis straight man and a cis straight woman and their kids. Right. Also, like at the end of the book, she kind of concludes it with like, I don’t know, like if you can get your husband to like carry like a third of the weight, like that’s a win.

(15m 35s):
You should really sell it. Like that’s like, that’s as good as it’s ever gonna get. Yeah. What, there’s some wild stuff in that book. There was also like a whole chapter about like identifying what type of husband your husband is. And one of them I was like, well, that’s my wife And I am, I’m the, I’m the wife in this situation. Yeah. Right. And so it’s just like these things. And then there was this other book also written by a cis woman that was like, you know, about how to, how men could be healthier. And she had something that I found really striking of that there was a man in her life that was being vulnerable and it upset her.

(16m 16s):
And I was like, okay, the, so we have these like double standards, right? And we have these expectations that cis folks are bringing to the conversation that are just like not serving anyone. And it feels like there is a space now for a, a book that tries to get rid of some of those assumptions, or at least to to name the assumptions. ’cause I think that was the thing that was bothering me is that people were making assumptions, but they weren’t naming them as assumptions. They were just saying like, this is how it’s, And I was like, oh, trans folks bring something to the conversation because like, we don’t, we don’t get to just say, this is how it is.

(16m 57s):
Right. We had to figure out who we are from, from the jump. Yeah. In that passage you read, you said, I believe this is what you said that you, you mentioned like the secret places where many of us are suffering, but are afraid to say out loud. And can you like sort of name some of the ways in which you’ve been suffering or you’ve seen not to like make you like bleed for us? Or the ways that you’ve seen like men suffering that this book seeks to like shine a healing light on? Yeah, I mean, I, I think, I think this sense of not enoughness is one that has been true for me. And I, I think is also true for other men as well. Like this sense of like, that you were somehow going to be found out, right?

(17m 42s):
Like for me it’s often like I am very deeply concerned in spaces with a lot of cis men of like being found out as trans and not putting me in danger. But I, but I think that there’s something else, right? Of like, people looking at me and, and, and judging me and saying like, oh, he’s not really a man or his masculinity is, is not authentic. And for me, again, it’s like, because of my transness, but I’ve seen in other men, like queer men who are worried that the ways that they’re carrying themselves are gonna reveal that they’re quote unquote not enough or too Effeminate. Yeah. All of the like no femme, like I Exactly. I want a real man. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, And I think that like even for cis straight men, there’s this sense of like, if I, if I am too emotional, if I am gentle, if I like, enjoy being with my kids, someone is gonna question my masculinity, my, so I think that that is a big one for a lot of folks.

(18m 41s):
And I think that there’s also, the other kind of big one that I’m seeing is like the world changing so fast and men, especially men of a certain generation, but not only like being unable to keep up, right? And that is both like technology and jobs, but it’s also like, what am I expected to do now? Am I expected to pay for the date or not? Am I expected to, I don’t be gentle or, or a protector? Am I like, what am I expected to do and how do I manage all of those expectations?

(19m 21s):
And I think that that’s a place that’s causing a lot of anxiety for men. Yeah. It’s, it sounds like a lot of that friction is happening in the context of like romantic relationships of what, and is that, is that like the true of this book? Or like how, like how is it about romance versus other spheres of life? Yeah, I I, it, there is a lot of, of like romance and partnership in the book, but I think that like, it, it’s because our, our re our closest relationships become a microcosm of how we act everywhere. Yeah. Right? So it’s like if you are someone who is not carrying your weight in your household, there’s a good chance you’re also not carrying your weight in your workplace, right?

(20m 9s):
So I think that whether you are partnered or not, this book like looks at the places where you might be feeling entitled to certain things because of your gender and how that might be playing out like in the, in all of the places you inhabit. So, you know, thinking about, there’s, I I tell a story in the book of my wife worked at a seminary and the seminary had like a shared kitchenette and she was like, it was only and always the men who would leave their dishes in the sink, in the kitchenette with the assumption, right? That like someone else would clean up after that in A progressive, a progressive seminary also, And this is a progressive seminary, right?

(20m 52s):
Like lots of queer and trans men working there. And she was like, it was striking to me that it was only the men that did that. And, but like that, and that was, but again, like, and so I can imagine that these men were also doing that at home, right? That there was this assumption that someone else would clean up for them. And I think that that assumption too of like, who in your workplace is in charge of remembering birthdays and getting the card and like bringing snacks for the whatever or organizing the annual potluck or whatever if, if we even do that at work anymore, but Right. Like, yeah. All of these ways that expectations are gendered and that I, I think we just need to be paying attention to the ways that those things are playing out.

(21m 37s):
Yeah. And you, you mentioned in, in the passage, like, we need a new kind of inspection, I think is what you said, or analysis. And you also like if we, if like we will do the work. And so like, I’m wondering, I mean I know that that’s like the book, but like, I guess like what, what is like new about this analysis and also, and like relatedly, I know that you’re not prescribing a like one size fits all approach, but like you said a few times, like something was, has been missing. And so like what is that missing piece and like what is the type of work that we, is it, is it like literal manual labor?

(22m 18s):
Is it like in our minds work? Like is it interper? Like what is, what is the work that we’re doing? Yeah, I mean, I, I think the work is like all of the above, right? There is, there is some unlearning we need to do about, or many of us need to do about like what it means to be a man and, and how we play that out. And so then as we do that unlearning work, some of it does become like manual labor to show up differently in our households and in our workplaces to like, you know, make sure that there is a fair distribution of labor or to learn for, for some of us who are not partnered it, it might be like to learn how to take care of the spaces that we live in, right?

(23m 2s):
Like, can you cook? You should be able to, right? Like whether you are living alone or with someone like you should be able to make some meals and do your own laundry and like pay attention when things are messy and, and not just assume again that that is like gendered labor. And so I think some of what is new is asking us to really examine, you know, what are the things that we are assuming about what it means to be a man and can we pay attention to those assumptions and, and hold them up. Some of, some of this is also like examining the different models of, of masculinity, which I think is not entirely new.

(23m 50s):
And also I think the way that I brought together like a bunch of different things is new right? There, there are folks that now that are starting to talk about like how growing up on sitcoms, right? Like taught men learned incompetence, right? And so like that is definitely part of this. But I think that there’s also, like, we got messages from our church and from evangelicalism about masculinity that like, whether you are in the church or even evangelical, that is now taking center stage in our country, right? Assumptions about what it means to be a man and how you interact with other people.

(24m 32s):
So I think putting all of that together and then, and then the other piece is that I’ve, I’ve tried to be really practical in this book of saying like, here are some next steps and here are some things to try and here are some things to like pay attention to and answer for yourself in a way that I hope it won’t just be like, great, now I’ve read this book And I don’t know what to do with it, but that it’ll actually like, give you some next steps and, and lead you into action. Ah, I love it. So it’s out tomorrow or it’s out in two days? If you’re listening to this, what is the exact date that it comes out? It comes Out Tuesday, April 15th. Fantastic. And so right now it’s already on sale. Obviously you can get it wherever books are sold.

(25m 13s):
We have some links to like the major retailers on our website at Queer Theology dot com slash books. But like you can go to your local bookstore and if they don’t have it in stock, every, all indie bookstores would be delighted to order it for you. And you can have it picked up there. Like it might be a few bucks more expensive than Amazon. Sometimes it’s the same price if you’re picking it up in, in store. So buy wherever books are sold, request from, from your library and stay tuned. I think we’ll be doing a book club about it at some point. So hop on our mailing list if you’re not already on there to get all of the details about that. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters.

(25m 54s):
To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post Exclusive First Look at “No One Taught Me How To Be A Man” appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week we are joined by Rev. Benjamin Perry on the podcast. Benjamin is author of “Cry, Baby: Why Our Tears Matter,” and an award-winning writer. His work focuses on the intersection of religion and politics. They hold a degree in psychology from SUNY Geneseo and a Masters of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary. He is married to Erin Mayer, they live in Maine with his brother and best friend. They are the editor of the Queer Faith photojournalism series, curator of an art exhibit by the same name, and a passionate advocate for building Church that lives into God’s blessed queerness. His two proudest achievements are skydiving with his grandmother and winning first prize in his seminary drag show. In this conversation, Benjamin discusses their journey as a queer minister and author, exploring the intersections of queerness, spirituality, and social justice. They share insights on the importance of emotional expression, particularly through crying, and the need for progressive voices in the face of rising Christian nationalism. The discussion also delves into Benjamin’s book, which examines the cultural stigma around crying and advocates for a world where emotional vulnerability is embraced. We explore the multifaceted nature of crying, discussing its physiological and social implications, the shame surrounding masculinity and emotional expression, and the intersection of queerness and vulnerability. Benjamin emphasizes the importance of grief and emotional balance in a world filled with anger and anxiety, advocating for a deeper understanding of our emotional lives and the connections they foster.

Takeaways

I have to come out as queer and Christian.
I joke that I professionally fight with evangelicals.
Crying is a deeply human experience.
We need more prophetic voices.
The answer to hypocrisy can’t be silence.
I didn’t cry for more than a decade.
What would a world shaped by more open weeping look like?
I made myself cry every day for months.
I became a person who cried more easily.
We need to create moral clarity. Crying serves as a physiological release and a social signal.
Emotional tears contain higher concentrations of stress-related proteins.
Crying can create unexpected connections between individuals.
Public crying often invites empathy rather than judgment.
Shame around crying is often rooted in societal norms and expectations.
Men experience a double shame regarding their emotional expression.
Crying can be a radical act of vulnerability and authenticity.
Grief is a natural response to love and loss.
Balancing grief and anger is essential for emotional health.
Crying can be a deeply queer act, challenging societal norms.

Chapters

(01:56) Introduction to Benjamin Perry

(04:54) Spiritual Journey and Queerness

(15:10) Intersection of Religion and Politics

(27:15) Exploring the Book ‘Cry Baby’

(32:55) The Complexity of Crying

(36:00) Crying as a Connection Tool

(44:59) Crying and Queerness

(51:00) Grief, Rage, and Emotional Balance

Resources:

Learn more about Rev. Benjamin Perry at https://www.benjaminjperry.com/
Cry, Baby: Why Our Tears Matter by Rev. Benjamin Perry
Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts From Genesis, revelation, the Bible declare good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how Tuning in each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hey there. Before we get into this week’s episode, just a reminder that Shannon’s new book, no one taught me How to Be a Man, what a Trans man’s experience reveals about masculinity is coming out very soon, on April 15th. Pre-orders are so important, and we would love for you to grab yourself a copy now, Shannon, in like a sentence or two, what is this book about and who is it for?

(53s):
This book is about my journey of figuring out what masculinity means to me and what that journey might open up for other people who consider themselves men or on the masculine spectrum as ways to embody and inhabit their gender in ways that feel good to them and are also healthy for people of other genders around them. So, really excited about this book. You can get that book wherever books are Sold. So if you’re an online shopper, you go to Bookshop, Barnes and Noble, or Amazon, we have links to all those three at Queer Theology dot com slash books, so you can get easy access to those. You can also go to your local bookstore, and if they don’t have it in stock, you can request it. Ask them to either like ship it directly to you or have it shipped to the store.

(1m 33s):
Putting in requests at your local bookstore will help booksellers know that this is a book that people are interested in, which really helps get the word out about this important book. Again, the title is No One Taught Me How to Be a Man. What a Trans Man’s Experience Review about Masculinity. It officially comes out on April 15th. If you pre-order, you might get it a few days early. So go ahead and do that now. All right, onto the episode. Welcome back to the Cariology Podcast. This week we have a special guest, Reverend Benjamin Perry, and you are really gonna enjoy this conversation. So here’s a little bit about Reverend Perry. Reverend is the Minister of Outreach and Media Strategy at Middle Church and author of Cry Baby, Why Our Tears Matter published by broadleaf books in May of 2023.

(2m 18s):
Benjamin is an award-winning writer. His work focuses on the intersection of religion and politics. The writing can be found in outlets like The Atlantic, the Washington Post slate, the Huffington Post, sojourners Bustle and motherboard. And he has appeared on SNBC Al Jazeera and New York one. They hold a degree in psychology and a Masters of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary. He’s married to Aaron Mayer. They live in Maine with his brother and best friend. They are the editor of the Queer Faith Photojournalism series, curator of an art exhibit by the same name, and a passionate advocate for building church that lives into God’s blessed queerness. His two proudest achievements are skydiving with his grandmother and winning first prize in his seminary drag show.

(2m 57s):
Welcome, Reverend Benjamin Perry. Welcome to the podcast. We are so excited for this conversation. Thank you so much for being here. It’s a delight to be here. Thanks so much for having me. So we love to start by asking, you know, we’ve heard your official bio, but if you were at a fancy queer cocktail party or a not fancy queer cocktail party, you know, how do you generally introduce yourself and your work? And in that, what are some identities that are important to you that you would like our listeners to know? What a loaded question. I feel like I, I, I always joke that I have to come out as queer and Christian spaces, And I come out as Christian and queer spaces like, like many a person.

(3m 39s):
And so I would say that usually I, I don’t lead with, I’m a minister because especially at a cocktail party that immediately launches into a whole bunch of, lots of throat clearing and other conversations that, like, especially at a cocktail party, I don’t necessarily wanna get into. Yeah. So I often, now that I’ve written a, a book I lead with, I’m an author, I write about crying and emotional intelligence, and then as we sort of get to know me a little bit better, then I will sort of peel the layers of the onion back and say, I’m actually, I’m also a minister. I do a lot of Queer Theology. I work a lot with how we can build religious communities that welcome and embrace all people, how we can use religion as a force for liberation and a collective flourishing as opposed to lot of the ways it is, it is currently being used by other shorthand way of saying that, particularly in, in a cocktail party setting is, I will joke that I I professionally fight with evangelicals, which sometimes is how my work fuels on the internet, even if it’s not the, the work of my spirit.

(4m 40s):
If you’ll Yeah. Yeah. O yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned that you, that you have written this book Cry Baby, Why Our Tears Matter, and we’re gonna get into that in a bit. But before we do, we would love to ask you just to share, you know, a little bit of your spiritual journey, what that’s been like for you and how queerness has intersected with that. Yeah, thanks so much for that question. I came out pretty late publicly. I was out to a lot of my friends by the time I was 18, 19, but I was still grappling with a lot of internalized homophobia and shame and moving through all that, all that good stuff. And then by the time I was in my early twenties and starting seminary, I had largely started to unravel a lot of that for me.

(5m 29s):
But then I started dating a woman and all of a sudden had all sorts of other feelings and, and fears and concerns like, oh, well maybe I don’t belong in the queer community and, you know, I, am I taking up space if I’m, you know, publicly identifying as queer, even if I’m in a hetero passing relationship. You know, went through a, a whole cycle of these new worries and doubts and fears. And so it wasn’t until I was, you know, 27 or so that I actually came out publicly and started doing Queer Theology from a more authentic and explicitly personal place. Prior to that, a lot of my work was around the Intersection of Religion and Politics.

(6m 9s):
Part of that actually ended up just being a, a function of a rather bizarre and unexpected series of, of life events. My third year of seminary I went to to school at Union Theological Seminary in New York City, and my third year there was the year of the Eric Garner non-decision. And so a lot of folks in my community and myself were involved in organizing and protest efforts. And one night, myself and another seminarian were out protesting, and we were on the FDR and the Riot Police showed up and, you know, charged with their shields and do what riot police do. And my friend And I were, you know, locked arm in arm.

(6m 53s):
And then we sort of got tackled and broken up and thrown into the pavement. And the officer who initially apprehended me whispered in my ear, like, get outta here. And I stood up And I turned, And I saw my friend who’s black in handcuffs, And I was like, well, like, see you later, Sean. Like, catch you in the morning. Have fun in jail. So I literally just stood around the FDR for another, you know, five, 10 minutes until another officer was like, what are you doing? And I was like, waiting, waiting for you to arrest me, I guess. And because this was so emblematic of exactly the same circumstances that we were in the street protesting in the first place, the story really caught on in a way that I was not expecting.

(7m 35s):
And so the New York Times ended up writing up a big story about it, and we were on Melissa Harris Perry’s show, And I was NBC in New York one and Al Jazeera and did the whole, you know, media circus, if you will. And this was right as I was applying for pastoral jobs. And all of a sudden all of these nice Presbyterian churches who I had been interviewing with mysteriously moved onto other candidates. And so I found myself graduating seminary without any, you know, fucking Yeah, that’s Presbyterians. That’s it. Maybe. So I was, you know, I literally, I graduated and was like, oh, I guess this past spring thing might not work out.

(8m 16s):
And because I had written some pieces around the same time that this was happening and that had gone fairly viral and it seemed like, you know, there was a place for me to write about this Intersection of Religion and Politics, I said, well, I guess I’ll do that. And so I worked as an editor at Time Inc for a couple years doing more editorial things. And I eventually, when Trump was elected, realized I couldn’t, you know, edit my Ford magazine and Caesar’s Total Rewards and these other, you know, magazines for time anymore. And so I, I approached Union and said, well, listen, you know, this ascendant Christian nationalism needs to have robust voices and engagement, people calling this out and saying, this is not Christian.

(8m 57s):
This is not faithful to the gospel. This is a perversion of everything about who Jesus was and what Jesus lived and died for. And I think that union could be the place, or a place that, you know, robustly amplifies this message in this presidency. And they were, I was fortunate enough that they, they took me on with that crazy idea, And I went and did public theology with them for a number of years where I, I was laughed when Trump would yell about paid protestors because that was, you know, largely a, a lie and a silly thing to say, but actually kind of accurately characterized a lot of my work for like the first three years of the Trump presidency as I would go around the country, you know, profiling the Poor People’s campaign and other popular, you know, religiously motivated uprisings against the, the violence of the Trump administration.

(9m 49s):
So that actually was a lot of the work that I, I did for a long time And I kept my own queerness. That was something I was sort of moving through personally, but it wasn’t explicitly a part of my public work. And then the United Methodist Church made their decision in 2019 to, you know, re entrench the homophobia that then was, you know, guiding their book of disciplines saying that queer folks couldn’t serve as ministers or be ordained. And we had a number of queer Methodist students in the ordination track at Union who were obviously very hurt and fearful and, you know, at, at a loss for exactly what to do with, you know, what this meant for their futures.

(10m 35s):
And I realized I, I needed to do something. I was, you know, in the communications office and we collectively needed to do something to respond to this. And I got, I’m so tired now and then of the same conversations about, you know, unpacking the glob or passages. And I just, It’s very funny when you invited me to this podcast, I was like, oh, I’m so grateful to both of you because oftentimes when I don’t wanna have that conversation, I point people to episodes that you have done. So I’m like, they do it so well, and then I don’t have to have this conversation with you. I can have a different conversation that is more life giving. But it took Us like five years before we, we were, ’cause we also were so over that. Yeah. We started this work to not have to do it and then like, so we just like ignored them for the first many, many years.

(11m 19s):
And then like, just everyone is obsessed with ’em. So I was like, we’re gonna record a handful of Things. Fuck, we might as well do it, Never do, never do them again, because like, that’s not where the life is. Yeah, exactly. And so, so I wanted some sort of response that would be, you know, affirmative of the place that I knew in my heart that queer people had in the church. And so I put together this photojournalism package called Queer Faith, where I had a, an incredible photographer, Mohamed Mia, who was an intern in, in our department at the time. And he took these gorgeous headshot of faculty, staff and students, all queer faculty, staff and students at Union coupled with testimonies about how we understood our own faith journeys and our queerness and how we saw those not as somehow contesting forces, but very much wrapped up in the same mission to live authentically and to nurture, thriving.

(12m 15s):
And I was reading all of these beautiful profiles and testimonies from students who had so much to lose by coming out. And I had so very little to lose that I, it it made my ongoing silence feel really intolerable. And so I, I came out publicly as part of that project and I’m so grateful that I did. In some ways I’m a little curious as why it took me that long because it then opened up this whole, you know, trajectory of my career since then that has become such a, a core part of the work that I do. That to that point I was sort of keeping locked up in inside of myself. And so I, I became a minister at Middle Church in New York, which is a very queer congregation.

(12m 57s):
I gotta do all kinds of incredible Queer Theology there. And, and now I’ve written this book about crying, but crying becomes this refraction point where I can actually talk about all of these other things that I’m so interested in discussing, like masculinity and queerness and power and race and, you know, whose tears are, are privileged and whose tears are cast aside. And how do we create a world where that kind of tenderness and softness that all people should enjoy is in fact the, you know, the water in which children grow up, the, the circumstances in which all of us experience life. Hmm. Love that. Yeah. I, oh man, I wanna just like jump right into that.

(13m 37s):
But I also, like a, a few minutes ago you touched upon the, like, intersections of religion and politics and it, it feels like perennially important, like when you were first coming up right? With Eric Gardner, I remember I like came out as queer right around the time of like the George Bush’s reelection campaign and all of the anti gay state constitutional amendments. Yep. And now we’re recording this before the election, but like Christian nationalism is alive and well it sure is. Like, it’s all just sort of like mixed up together. And so like, can you, And I know it’s complicated for, for progressive folks because on, we’ve seen the ways in which religion gets weaponized in public spaces by the, by the right.

(14m 27s):
And so I think there’s this like reluctance for some progressive folks to like, we, we don’t wanna like voice our religion on other people Right. But like religion and politics are mixed up together. And so can you talk about like why religious literacy is important for politics and maybe why political literacy is important for like religious folks and how those two are, are, are intertwined historically, but I also like what’s like, what’s the word in this moment? Yeah. And doing some time traveling. We we’re recording this before the election, but it will be coming out After election right. Days before Yes. Much trembling and trepidation. Yeah. You can like feel it in the air on the call. Yeah.

(15m 8s):
Yeah. I’ll say as a, as a Christian and a pastor, when we allow Christian nationalists to be the only people who are talking explicitly in public about religion and politics, we seed the moral center to people who are defining Christianity in a egregiously harmful and bigoted way. And as someone whose faith means an awful lot to me, I, I can’t personally sit and listen and not say something. So there’s just a personal part of myself that, that feels like I, I have, you know, Martin Luther here I stand, I can do no other, like, when I hear people talk in explicitly religious terms about how we need to deport millions of, you know, immigrant neighbors like that, that is a violation of some of the religious principles I hold most dear.

(16m 7s):
And so when I hear that, I feel the need to talk in explicitly religious language because otherwise people who do not have a lot of religious literacy will hear who might, you know, identify as Christians loosely and feel that that identity has some importance for who they are in the world. That they then may experience cognitive dissonance where they say, well, you know, on the one hand I don’t really want us to round up families and, you know, use military police to, to go after my neighbors. But if, if that’s the Christian thing, like, oh, I, well what, what am I to do?

(16m 50s):
And so I think creating a moral clarity where we actually accurately talk about like what is in the Bible, you know, pointing to passages where, you know, the Bible is very explicit about the command to welcome the stranger about that there shall be one set of laws to, to rule both the, the citizen and the, the non-citizen resident. You know, that these kinds of explicit commands are not somehow anti-biblical. They are the very substance that, you know, grounds our, our faith. Those kinds of things are really important also, when you have a, a movement of Christian nationalism that is using explicitly, you know, salvific terms to talk about Donald Trump again and again.

(17m 42s):
Yeah. And again, that kind of heresy, And I don’t use that word like freely or loosely, but like that is, that is what it is when you’re talking about any political leader, but particularly this political leader in these hagiographic terms as if, you know, he is in fact, Jesus, come again, if I as a minister do not say, I should probably just turn in my collar and and go do something else. Yeah, yeah. I I think that, you know, in this time we’re just, we’re in a space where We need more prophetic voices.

(18m 23s):
And, and when I, when I was, I was working at a, an an ELCA congregation in Minneapolis, and one of the things that I was finding is that my congregation was like super, super justice oriented, right? They cared deeply about their neighbors and the political sphere and they were working in all sorts of ways, but when it came to articulating that they were doing that work because of their faith. Yeah. Like that step was just missing for so many of them. And I think it was because of this reticence of like, we don’t wanna be like those other people that are in the public sphere that are talking about their faith so ridiculously, right?

(19m 9s):
Like, we don’t wanna be lumped in with evangelicals, we don’t wanna be lumped in with the Christian nationalists. And I think that there are a lot of people that are listening that are feeling that tension. Yeah. It’s like, yeah, of course I care about justice. Like of course I’m doing these things, but like, how do I make explicit that faith connection? And I’m wondering if you have advice for folks who are wondering like, how, how best can I have the conversation that is grounded in my faith? Yeah, Yeah. But to avoid being those other things. Yeah. Well I think it’s, it’s exactly what you were just, what you were just laying out that, you know, the answer to that hypocrisy can’t be silence and it can’t be a feeling of shame that somehow these justice commitments are made at odds with our faith that they are in fact expressions of our deepest values and beliefs.

(20m 3s):
I’ll share a little story from here in the woods of Maine where I live. There was a school district nearby that had really wonderful policies protecting trans kids. And I mean, basic common sense stuff. These are not radical policies that you, you know, teachers should use Children’s Pro the correct pronouns. Kids should be able to use the, the bathroom that is appropriate for their gender. I mean, you know, really, you know, don’t bully kids for being trans, like these kinds of policies. And a number of fundamentalist Christians ran for the school board and won school board seats and won a very narrow majority and decided to make it their first act as school board members to go after this policy and rescind it to replace it with nothing.

(20m 60s):
And so there was a, a big outcry from the queer community in the, in the area and a series of like seven hour hearings where we, I mean literally like, you know, a Parks and rec episode. We were there from 7:00 PM to like 2:00 AM and people, you know, open comment, everybody’s talking for three minutes and saying all kinds of things. And there were a lot of pastors who got up and spoke very explicitly about how Jesus condemns these children. And so, like in a context like that, it’s really important to talk about your own faith and not to do someone who say that, listen, everybody needs to believe what I believe or even that, like, my beliefs as a Christian should be, you know, addressing school board policy because they should not, you know, public schools are public schools.

(21m 47s):
Religion has no place in them. And when you have a open hearing where pastor after pastor is saying, oh, you know, God hates trans people and there are trans kids in that audience, it is really important to talk about your own faith. And I, I didn’t do it in a, when I testified at those hearings, I didn’t do it in the kind of way where I was at actually at all talking about what they were saying. ’cause I didn’t really care. I mean, I, I do care, but I, that’s not what I wanted the kids to hear. Didn didn’t want them to hear me talking about these toxic odious things that these other speakers had said.

(22m 28s):
I wanted them to hear that this is a community that cares about you, that God loves you, that this community is here for you. And hundreds and hundreds of people showed up to testify. And to say that this is, these are the values of our community by a, a measure of, I think it was like 80 or 90 people spoke against rescinding the policy to like 10 to 15 people who spoke for it. And those people were for all other parts of Maine. They had been Boston, they were not local to the community. And the, the school board heard all of this and they voted to get rid of the policy. Anyways, literally, children were coming up to the microphone begging them, please don’t take away this policy.

(23m 12s):
It’s what helps me feel safe in school. And these adults who listen to this after they heard teachers and social workers and pastors and all sorts of folks say, please, please keep this policy. They got rid of it. And what the kids in my community got to see next really speaks to what happens when we live into our values. Because there was an election the next Tuesday and there weren’t enough progressive candidates running. And there was very quickly a writing campaign organized, again, we’re talking small town Maine, it’s like 5,000 person towns A a writing campaign was organized.

(23m 55s):
And the, the can, the progressive candidate who everyone was encouraging folks to write in won by like 60 something votes. And kids got to watch adults in their community. So, you know what, we’re actually not going to sit and let these values that we cherish be trampled. Like that is the kind of pro proclamation of values that means something. And I don’t have to talk about Jesus to do it. I often do talk about Jesus, but it’s not essential. What is important is living into my own Christian values and explicitly articulating how my commitment to people, to kids is something that I’m willing to fight for and something that we collectively are not going to ignore.

(24m 43s):
What I think is so important about what you just said is, is that I, I think often people think that they have to combat or argue against the things that are being said by the other side, right? And that, and that part of the concern is why don’t, I don’t know how, like I don’t have the right argument. And I think what’s so vital about what you just said is like, it’s not about the argument, right? It’s in fact, we don’t even need to dignify their argument. Instead we speak from our own convictions and our own values. And I think that that, that also like gives people a sense of like, you don’t have to have all of the right answers, right?

(25m 25s):
Like, you can just share your story, you can share what, what matters and it’s important to you. And I think that’s really, that’s Important. Well, the other thing that happens when we feel like we need to have the right argument is we let the worst actors in our society dictate what all of the rest of us are talking about. And I’m really tired of that. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Amen. And, and not only do you like not have to have the like with the right argument or the right response that actually that, that is like a poor tactic. I remember before I did a lot of direct action activism. I like got Glad media training and they’re like, absolutely do not ever repeat back the opposition’s talking points. It like, just reinforces it in a public consciousness.

(26m 6s):
And I just like, I learned that in, I don’t know, 2007 And I feel like I’m still trying to teach people that ’cause it just like, you then say it. And now Twitter didn’t exist back then, but like every time you quote tweet something or you stitch a Instagram or a TikTok, you’re just amplifying the like, the garbage. And I like, I, I so appreciate it. You were talking about this school board meeting, you’re like, I don’t need to address these passwords. Like, that’s not what I want these kids to take away. I don’t want them, you, we need to like speak from the positive and like it’s more effective strategically. I also think that there’s like a, a faith-based and a pastoral reason to like not subject yourself to that, to not subject other people to that that, and, and also like, to your point, like lets the wor it lets the worst actors like define define the terms and define the parameters and define the assumptions of it.

(27m 1s):
And it’s just like I, I’m not willing or interested in like, seeding the moral framework to the assholes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for, thank you for bringing, bringing that up. We’d love to talk a little bit about your book Cry Be, And I’m wondering for folks who are hearing about it for the very first time, can you just give us a brief snippet of like, what is Cry Baby about and what inspired you to write this book? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for asking. So Cry Baby begins with my own journey being someone who didn’t cry for more than a decade, learning how to cry again, learning how to feel again. Then it goes into the physiology of crying, crying in literature, all to say, if crying is this deeply human experience, if it’s good for us, if it’s linked to transformation, why do so many people feel so much shame about crying?

(27m 57s):
And then the middle chunk of the book gets into all of these social forces that affect when and if we feel comfortable crying. And then the last third asks, if we could get rid of all of that, What would a world shaped by more open, weeping look like, inspired by the communities where that is already vibrantly present. And so the, the book came about in part because of an essay I wrote in the, the very beginning of the pandemic. I was living in Washington Heights at the time, and Columbia Presbyterian Hospital was two blocks away. And in the early days of the pandemic, they were parking more trucks in the street right in front of my window.

(28m 42s):
At the same moment that I was hearing all of these governors talking about, we need to get back to business, business as usual. And it was this perverse juxtaposition that sparked this recognition in my own spirit. I was like, oh, I, I know what that is. Like, that’s an inability to deal with Grief, an inability to, to really feel anything at all other than, you know, intellectually this desire for, for the thing that you are grappling with to no longer exist. And it reminded me viscerally of the time in my life that I didn’t cry. So between when I was, you know, 12 years old or so until I was beginning seminary, I didn’t cry at all.

(29m 28s):
A lot of that was, you know, my own internalized homophobia. The ways that I, I feared, you know, crying would expose parts of myself to other people that frankly I was not ready to deal with my own internalized transphobia and discomfort in my own gender. My, you know, all of this stuff had calcified into a point where feelings felt really threatening and dangerous. And so I, I didn’t do them for quite some time. And I then I learned, you know, I told this story in the, in the book that I had this experience at the beginning of seminary when I was in a Hebrew Bible class. And a professor asked us to share moments in our lives that we had wept in small groups.

(30m 11s):
And I listened as folks went around the circle and shared these beautiful experiences of crying. And as the, you know, proverbial baton was coming around to me, I realized that I had nothing. I I had vague memories of crying as a child, but nothing more recent. And it was this moment that crystallized for me that something inside of me was, was broken. And that if I was gonna provide effective and compassionate care to other people, I needed to figure out why I was so emotionally numb in the first place. And so I, I went back And I abused myself emotionally into crying that first day.

(30m 51s):
I had this euphoric experience of feeling something for the first time in a very long time in a, in a deep and real way. And it felt so good that I decided to engage in this odd spiritual experiment where I made myself cry every day for months. And this really interesting thing happened where over the course of, you know, days into weeks, my entire emotional baseline shifted And I just became a person who cried more easily. So whereas I, you know, went years and tears and years without crying, all of a sudden I would hear a beautiful piece of music and start to tear up. Or a friend would share a, a moving story And I would find myself in tears.

(31m 33s):
And so many days I didn’t have to go back and make myself cry at the end of the day. ’cause I had already cried at some other point. And so I, I wrote this article sharing this story of learning how to cry again as a microcosm for what I thought we needed to do culturally. And an editor approached me and asked, you know, would you be interested writing a whole book on crying? And I hadn’t thought about it at, you know, up until that moment. But the more I thought about crying, I realized how wrapped up tears are in all of these other social forces that I, I care a lot about writing about. You know, crying is rarely just about crying. And so it, it became this really beautiful opportunity to explore so much of what makes us human through this uniquely human act.

(32m 17s):
Hmm. Love that. I, I’m curious if you can, obviously people should just go read the book, but please do, if, if there is a, a a nugget of like, what, what is one thing that crying can or does do for us? I don’t, I don’t know if there’s like one thing that you could point to that would be A Yeah, it, it’s really interesting. In my, my chapter on physiology and crying, I talk about this sort of two camps in the psychological world. There’s, there, there’s folks who believe really strongly that crying is a physiological process that helps to release pent up neurotransmitters associated with stress.

(33m 2s):
There’s this scientist, William Fray, who in the, the eighties did this very famous experiment where he compared emotional tears to tears that you cry if you’re, you know, chopping an onion or you get dust in your eye. And he found that emotional tears have much higher concentrations of these various proteins. And so hypothesized that tears were actually detoxifying the body in, in literal ways. And then there’s folks on the social side of things exemplified by this Dutch psychologist Aho, who talk about crying as an interpersonal process. They’re evolutionary psychologists who talk about things like the fact that emotional, those that same elevated protein content makes emotional tears have a higher viscosity.

(33m 51s):
So it slows the rate at which they fall down our cheeks and makes it more likely that somebody else is gonna see that, that signal for a need of assistance. And research has repeatedly shown that when people see other folks who are crying, they feel more tender towards them, they’re more likely to offer help. That crying can be this invitation to connection even where it didn’t exist before. And in the book, I tell some stories about times in my own life where I cried with a stranger and all of a sudden felt tethered to that person who I did not know in ways that simply would not have happened from a, from a normal conversation that there seems to be something about the act of crying and particularly the act of crying with another person that builds these tender yet durable social interweaving.

(34m 44s):
That is something that I think is such a gift that we don’t talk about enough. I think so many of us have this shame and fear that if we cry openly in public, we are gonna be judged for it. That we’re gonna take up too much space in the room and not have a whole chapter devoted to times when that certainly is the case. I’m not saying that that’s never true, but more often than not, I think that when people cry in public, that’s actually not the reaction that other people have. That people are generally empathic. That we long for connection, particularly in this time of isolation and alienation and polarization that we yearn for interpersonal connections.

(35m 24s):
And so when we cry, it’s this invitation to a different kind of world that isn’t shaped by that kind of divisiveness, but is instead grounded in our common humanity. Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I, I I think that you’re onto something there and that, that when people cry, that it, it triggers a, I dunno, like a natural sort of empathetic thing. And other people, and also like, I I think that we’re not people who are worried about being, I don’t know, a judged, for instance, or like, not entirely wrong, like, I don’t know if judge is the right word, but like, I’m thinking especially around like, tears around like Grief. Like one of my best friends died a few years ago.

(36m 5s):
My a family member’s family member died recently. And I’m just thinking in a way of like, people are like really, really, really uncomfortable with Grief. And so like, if you’re, like, once you’re crying, people can comfort you. But if you’re like, not crying, I, I found that people really want to like jump into like problem solving mode. Like make it, make it like kinda how you were saying like, I’m just gonna like not do the feelings, like make the feelings go away and fix it. And like, whether it’s like they’re in a better place, or at least they didn’t suffer, like whatever, like bullshit they used to try and shut it down. And so like, I do wonder if there’s like a communal response that it’s not just like you by yourself have to like, figure out how to cry more often, but like, how can we make space for like sadness without, and to sort of like really feel into that in a way that doesn’t try to solve it Well.

(37m 0s):
Yeah. ’cause Because if we can sit with that, like we, like you were saying, all of these really beautiful important things like come out of, come out of that space Yeah. And we learn so much about ourselves and one another. Yeah. And I think part of it, you’re, you’re not at all wrong. There is this collective aversion to, you know, going there, quote unquote. Yeah, yeah. In part because we don’t do it. And so people Like, it’s a muscle like anything else. And if you’re not, you know, well versed in accessing your emotions and being able to hold them, they can feel wildly unmanageable. And not to say that we should all have Yeah. You know, nicely controlled emotional lives, that’s not the point.

(37m 42s):
But the more that we are open with our own emotions, the more we become mindful of them, the more that we can, you know, have interactions that affirm what people are feeling without that reflexive need to fix. Yeah. In the book, i, I share one of my favorite little bits of, you know, things, practical things that you can do for the people in your life. This is a piece of advice that my clinical pastoral education supervisor shared with me. For folks who don’t know about CPE, this is something that pastors do as part of your training, oftentimes you’ll serve as a chaplain in a hospital. And I was working in the, the pediatric ICU and had lots of experie like moments where I was crying with other people.

(38m 28s):
And my supervisor pointed to this thing that so many of us do when someone else is crying, which is that we put, put our hand on their back and we rub in a circle. And this is not, you know, an evil act in and of itself. It’s not like I’m, I’m saying, oh, how, how dare you do that? You, you villain like this comes from a very emotional and empathic place of, oh, I see you hurting And I I want to take that away from you. I don’t want you to feel so much pain that you are clearly currently experiencing. But what that does is it communicates through this circular motion that like, I would like you to stop crying when in fact what we can really do to be there for someone is to instead sit with them in that feeling and say, you know what?

(39m 16s):
This is, this is okay. Like this is natural, this is normal. Of course you’re feeling this and I’m going to be here with you beside it. So what she encouraged to do instead is in, you know, still put your head on their back. But instead of rubbing in a circle, just hold it there. And what that communicates is, I am here for you as long as this takes and it changes the tenor of that interaction. And so I think there are little things like that and big things, but like, there’s so many little things that are just baked into the fabric of our own collective discomfort with, with Grief, with big emotions that we need to be really intentional about how do we create different kinds of interpersonal paradigms that don’t continue replicating these forces that I think all of us on some level know are damaging.

(40m 3s):
It’s really interesting. I have a whole chapter on masculinity and crying And I was talking with all these men who were sort of reporting these, these double shame that they had all of this shame about crying when they were growing up because it wasn’t manly, because it wasn’t, you know, associated with femininity. ’cause it was, you know, called gay what, what have you, they had all this this shame about the act of crying and now they are adults and they have all of this shame about not being able to access their emotions and not being able to cry. You know, see, you get it coming and you get it going. And, and part of what I’m trying to get across in this book is like all of that shame is not yours. Like this is something that has been handed to you by generations of patriarchy and white supremacy and all these other toxic forces that have taken something that is beautiful and human and loaded it with so many ambivalent at best feelings.

(41m 0s):
And just because it isn’t ours doesn’t mean that we don’t have a responsibility to do something about it. And so the question becomes how can we sift through all of that wreckage and excavate a more authentic relationship with our tears and with one another? I’m wondering if, for you, is there something inherently queer about crying? Yeah, it’s a really great question. I I would say queer in the sense of destabilizing supposedly fixed boundaries, boundaries and borders like that, that sort of academic queer theory definition of queerness.

(41m 43s):
Absolutely. One of the things that I love about crying is that it unearths things is quite literally, you know, moving through our bodies and dredging up all of the stuff that, that feels stuck. You can feel that experiential thing when you have that, that really good cry and all of a sudden you feel, you know, both drained but also in some ways almost like purified afterwards like that. I think there are, there are experiential ways in which that’s true, but it’s also true on a, you know, a, a more metaphysical level. I mean, that’s sort of going back to what I was talking about earlier. That’s what I was so scared of when I was a kid.

(42m 23s):
I had this sense that if I cried, other people would know this thing about me, that it would reveal parts of myself that I was not ready to tell them or tell me. And while that can be scary, it’s also this beautiful opportunity. And it’s interesting, I, I just finished, I got, I had the, the great fortune of getting to, to read Shea’s book before it, it is out in the world, but you should absolutely pre-order it this beautiful, beautiful book about masculinity. And it was so interesting reading the way that you talk about masculinity. ’cause it was bringing up so many of these forces.

(43m 3s):
For me it’s, you know, you frame the book as this journey of, you know, always knowing that you are a man and sort of finding your way into understanding masculinity for yourself and understanding what that means culturally. And I found myself reading it from this sort of opposite perspective of someone who has never felt at home in masculinity, who is, you know, a assigned male and is, you know, relatively masked in my presentation. And so it gets read by the world as, as male in a lot of ways, but it’s always been deeply uncomfortable in groups of men has never felt comfortable with, you know, I always joke with, you know, queer friends that I identify as a tomboy. And I think that’s about, as about as close as I can sort of, you know, put a label to it.

(43m 47s):
But it was this, it was this really interesting, like, there’s so many of these social forces that sort of like get stuck inside of ourselves that we don’t have great language for that, you know, oftentimes, you know, I’ve been wrestling with these feelings for 35 years And I still don’t have good words to put around them, but there’s something about crying and these emotional, these kinds of emotional authenticity that in some ways can help affirm who we are before we even have the language to, you know, put a name on it. Or even if we never have words that feel exactly right, we can still feel right in our bodies in ways that transcend language. Yeah. It’s so, it’s so fascinating as you were talking about, you know, crying and, and masculinity.

(44m 30s):
Like my experience was I wasn’t able to cry until I started a transition and then as soon as I started to get more comfortable in my body and be in touch with my masculinity, I became a crier. Right. Like Hallmark commercials, whatever films like I am just, I’m like, I cry all the time. Yeah. And so it’s so interesting that that piece for me, right, it’s so tied into my masculinity, like the, the ease of which I cry Yeah. For me is very much centered in my identity, but I think it’s more about like being comfortable in myself, right. And being able to be vulnerable because that is a, it is a sharing of vulnerability.

(45m 10s):
Well it’s so interesting you say that because one of the comments I’ve I’ve gotten from a lot of particularly trans men is that when I’m fit on tour and, and things is that they used to be big criers until they went on tee and then all of a sudden they found, they found themselves unable to, to cry. And so there does actually seem to be some sort of hormonal link between, you know, estrogen, testosterone and tears. Like it’s, it’s not very clear in the research. There isn’t really good studies because nobody funds crying research ’cause crying is effeminate and not linked to things we can use for the military. And like why, why would we fund research about it then? So there’s not a whole lot, you know, really crystal clear picture of what exactly is happening. But there seems to be some sort of link between, you know, elevated le levels of testosterone and you know, a reduction in, you know, the number of tears that people cry.

(45m 59s):
But I think that what you were talking about is so interesting because I also think at the same time that that is true. There is a, an a simultaneous truth that if we do not feel comfortable in our bodies, it does not matter what the hormonal balances are like. We are not going to feel comfortable enough to weep that in some ways crying is this experience of oneness with, with who we are physically. And so I think the more that we can sort of cultivate this authentic and tender relationship with our own bodies, we learn so much of our, about ourselves and who we are and we can create different ways of, of feeling and being embodied. Even if we go through periods where for any number of reasons, we end up not crying.

(46m 39s):
’cause I also never want to, you know, hear people when I’m talking about crying, have people who have a hard time crying hear me saying like, oh, like shame on you. Like that’s terrible. Like I, I people get enough of that from the world. I, I don’t need to add on to it. And that’s actually not what I’m trying to say. You know, people will often ask like, oh, should everybody be crying more? And I’m like, I dunno, maybe. But like, that’s not actually not what I, what I really want, what I encourage people to do is sort of be curious about their relationship to tears. You know, when do you feel comfortable crying? Why, you know, think about times in your life where you cried, but more frequently or less frequently, how did that situate you within the world? How did the world respond to that?

(47m 19s):
What were the lessons you learned from those kinds of relationships? Like these kinds of things. I think crying dredges up. And so, so to go back to your earlier question, you know, is crying queer. Yeah. I think there is something radically unstable about crying in a way that, that is deeply queer. And I think that’s partly why, you know, I have a whole chapter in the, in the book on Crying and Queerness And I, I talk a lot about, you know, the ways that, for example, movements like Act Up used Public Grief as a way to galvanize political action, you know, to tie together a lot of the threats we’ve been talking about today. But, you know, there’s, you know, the, for folks who are, who are too young to, to, I mean, I, I was not alive so, or or barely alive, so I’m, I am counting myself in the, in folks too young to, to physically remember, you know, act Up was a, an organization in the eighties and that was founded in the eighties and nineties that was really marshaling around the Reagan administration and subsequent Bush administration’s lack of response to the AIDS crisis.

(48m 22s):
And one of the really public demonstrations that activists engaged in repeatedly were these public funerals where they would carry the bodies of their friends who had died through the streets. There was a very public action where folks from all over the country brought ashes of people who had died and scattered them on the White House lawn and wept. And I interview people who were there at that and they talk about that, that link between tears and action, but between crying over the way that the world is as a proclamation of the way that the world might be. And so there’s something deeply queer about that too.

(49m 4s):
Yeah. I, for folks who haven’t seen that, we actually have a clip of this on our website at Queer Theology dot com slash ashes. I think it’s so, it’s so powerful And I, I go off a whole tangent about how that was like, that was part of my Queer Theology journey in terms of like seeing faith and queerness And I was like, oh, like this is, this is a conversation another day, but I was like, this is like Palm Sunday, right? Like yeah, this is what it means to like put your, like your faith in action and oh God, it’s so powerful. Deeply liturgical. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. And I, this is, you’re leading me right into my next question, which is like, you know, we’re in, we’re in a world where there’s a lot happening where, you know, we’ve mentioned we’re recording this before the election, so there’s lots of anxiety around that.

(49m 47s):
Too Much happening, happening all over the Place. Yeah. Yeah. We’re in the midst of climate collapse. Right. And, And I think that often people’s response is to head right towards Rage and often like a very righteous Rage. Yeah. Right. But I think one of your points is that, that we need to also make room and space for Grief too. And I’m wondering if you can just share a little bit about why that is and, and how maybe Rage and Grief go together if there’s a way to balance them. And I guess like along with that, not to add too many things into one question, but like, is there, there, is there a risk of like getting stuck in a place of Grief, right?

(50m 31s):
Like, can there be too many tears? Yeah. These are, these are great questions. I dunno what you do with all of this. Yeah. I mean, one of the things, you know, to, to stick in that, that chapter where I’m interviewing folks from Act Up, one of the things I heard over and over again and Act Up was a place where there was all a, a whole lot of righteous anger on display. Yeah. Regularly. And it was interesting talking to some of the folks who I was interviewing saying like, yes. And that, like, that is in some ways a lot of the public recollection of Act Up. And that was absolutely there and an essential part of, of how folks were fighting for change, for dignity, for recognition, and also folks who share these beautiful stories of tenderness and Grief and the way that folks held each other in the midst of, yes, you just went to a protest, but you also just heard that another friend of yours had, you know, tested positive like that.

(51m 30s):
It couldn’t be one or the other. I think that, you know, as someone who’s been involved in, you know, organizing work in, in various capacities for, I I guess a while now, years, years creep up on you, staying in the anger place exclusively is unsustainable. That doesn’t mean that I don’t feel angry. Like who, boy do I feel angry? Who, boy do I feel angry right now? But I think part of what it means to be human is to access a full spectrum of emotional life.

(52m 11s):
And so Grief becomes also this way of, of, of naming loss. You know, it’s, it’s become a, a little cliche at this point, but I I don’t think it can ever be mentioned enough that Grief, the act of Grief is in some ways a proclamation of love that we grieve because we love something deeply. And so giving ourselves that space to grieve is a way of naming the magnitude of what is on the line and what we are losing. You know, think talking about the climate crisis, I’ve, I’ve done a few lectures now explicitly on climate Grief that folks have invited me to give.

(52m 55s):
And it’s a question I hear a lot because I, it’s something that I think is inside of a lot of people’s bodies that like, even if we do all of the things that we should be doing right now, which we are not doing, even even in the, the imaginary world where politicians actually start to do something now, we are still going to be moving through all kinds of unpreventable Grief and loss. And so if, if we ignore that or we refuse to sit with it, we’re actually not being honest about what we’re moving through collectively. And we don’t give ourselves the space to build those kinds of interconnected ties.

(53m 40s):
’cause one of the other things that is, you know, anger is, is great and righteous and has its place, it’s also phrase social fabric in ways that sometime are really important. Sometimes things are ossified that need to be frayed or, or shattered or broken. And if we just are in this place of constantly breaking things down, we don’t actually get to a place where we can start to build new things. And I think the Grief becomes this really fertile place where we can talk about what we love, what we want to invest in, the kinds of things that, that nurture life. You know, that that literal metaphor of tears falling and watering something new feels really important and salient in this moment of how can we grieve in ways that move us closer to the kind of world that we deserve.

(54m 38s):
And what’s, you know, to sort of answer your last question there about, you know, is there ever a time where we get stuck in, in Grief or we get Yeah, yeah. Like we should not sit and just like cry every day, all day on, on the ground. Like that’s, you’re not particularly conducive to getting things done, you know? And that’s true of crying. I I think sometimes we don’t cry in part, especially for those of us who cry more frequently. ’cause you’re like, not today I have, have things I need to do. Like today is not, it’s not a crying day. Like, I need to stop weeping. I need to do, I have like a whole list of stuff that needs to happen and like, I can’t just this weekend. Yeah. Like I can’t just be crying for two hours right now. I got like stuff, but it needs to get done.

(55m 19s):
And so yeah, there’s a degree to which if we are always just perennially in this sort of solipsistic place of just weeping in a circular pattern that just, you know, ends up sort of being weeping about weeping. Yeah. That’s not great. And I think also sometimes people need to go through that season to get to a place where they can find balance between like their various emotions because the opposite isn’t great either. The sort of anger that feeds on itself and becomes more deeply entrenched. You know, I I think that there, you know, are, are lots of folks who very righteous anger over the, over the course of decades turns into a place where all of a sudden it sort of twists upon itself.

(56m 1s):
And then you end up with, you know, all kinds of unintended ramifications where people become kind of toxic as a product of having just stewed in that anger place for so long. And again, I don’t wanna, you know, I’m not trying to like demonize anybody. I think there’s so many different ways that, you know, folks can get stuck in that in ways beyond, you know, their own agency or volition. So many times that’s not a thing that somebody chooses, is just the way that, you know, their life exists in friction with the world. But, you know, as much as we are able to consciously and intentionally shape our own emotional lives, I think trying to find balance between these various forces and knowing that like there is, there is holiness and all of it.

(56m 41s):
And unless we are able to access the fullness of our humanity, you know, what we’d say in like the, you know, the Abrahamic traditions of, you know, that, that the mago de that, that being made in the image of God, you know, that image of God is wr large across all of these things. It’s not just one of them. And so, you know, that righteous anger is part of the image of God, but so too is that Grief. And if we want to be, be faithful, and if we wanna live sustainably, we need some sort of balance that allows us to hold all of these things in tension.

(57m 23s):
Amen and amen. Or we could, I, I could talk about this topic all day, every day. If people want to find you and your work, where is the best way for them to connect with you? Yeah, you can find me online@benjaminjperry.com. My book is Cry comma Baby. Why? Our Tears Matter. You can get it wherever books are sold. I narrated the audio book, if you’re an audio book person, it’s on Audible. And then you can find me at Faithfully BP on Twitter and Instagram, although I’m using social media less these days. So you, you go give me a follow, but know that I’m not always, I’m not always on there.

(58m 5s):
Awesome. And we love to close by asking what’s one thing that’s been bringing you joy lately? Last Sunday, I went to a folk song circle here in May, And I showed up at the, the Steam and Sail Power Museum of all places. And there were, I love it, you know, 15, 20 folks, mostly like in their sixties, seventies and eighties, some younger folks, but like all playing different instruments, banjo, guitar, fiddle, and singing old folk songs. And it was healing in ways that I did not even know I needed.

(58m 46s):
Just hearing these songs that were being passed, you know, a lot of the songs that these folks had heard as children that they are now singing and, and sharing with me that kind of enduring liturgy, that, that intergenerational thread that gets passed through music is a place where I find deep joy and tenderness. There’s, there’s something beautiful about music that helps us invite different ways of, again, being in our bodies, being in relationship with one another and proclaims the possibility of, of hope in a fractured world. Thank you so much for being here. I, I think folks are really gonna resonate with and appreciate this conversation, so thanks for having it.

(59m 30s):
My pleasure. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration, Fort Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post Cry it Out with Rev. Ben Perry appeared first on Queer Theology.

View Details

We delve into the complex interplay between church teachings, gender identity, and masculinity. As we explore the subtle (or not so subtle!) messages received in church environments regarding gender roles, we look at the impact of gender segregation and the challenges of navigating masculinity in a world filled with conflicting expectations. Shannon’s book, “No One Taught Me How to Be a Man,” comes out April 15, so this conversation emphasizes the importance of redefining masculinity and gender identity. We are advocating for a more inclusive understanding of gender that allows for personal expression and self-discovery not confined, or defined, by Christian ideas of what are masculine or feminine.

Takeaways

Messages about gender in church are often subtle and sneaky.
Gender segregation in church settings reinforces patriarchal structures.
Navigating masculinity involves conflicting societal expectations.
The solution to masculinity isn’t to double down on traditional roles.
Self-discovery in gender identity is a personal journey.
Trans experiences can teach valuable lessons about masculinity.
Gender expression should be intentional and authentic.
It’s important to hold gender identities loosely and explore them.
Conversations about gender should be inclusive and open-ended.
The journey of understanding gender is ongoing and evolving.

Chapters

(04:25) The Impact of Gender Segregation

(10:38) Navigating Masculinity and Expectations

(18:24) Redefining Masculinity and Gender Identity

(26:41) The Journey of Self-Discovery and Gender Expression

Resources:

Order Shannon’s new book, No One Taught Me How to Be a Man
Join our online community at Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts From Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how tuning In each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Queer Theology Podcast. This week we are gonna be talking about church and theology and gender. So exciting, exciting things. We’re getting ready for the release of my new book. No One Taught Me How to Be a Man, but a trans man’s experience reveals about masculinity.

(50s):
It comes out in just two weeks from when we’re recording this on April 15th. So it, it’s available for pre-order now if you wanna get that. And so we thought it would be a good time to talk about church and gender and all of those fun things. So Brian, I’m curious for you, like when you think about church and gender, especially growing up, what kind of messages did you get? I, I, I feel like I know your ans my your answer to this of like, the messages that you got at home were very different from the messages that you got at church. Yeah. And so I wonder if you could just talk about that a little Bit. Well, I think the messages I got at church were subtle and sneaky.

(1m 32s):
It wasn’t until, I don’t know, when I was maybe like in high school or college that my mom pointed out to me. Oh yeah. Like they start segregating Sunday school by gender starting in fifth grade. And from that point on, boys are never taught by women. Like, and the, in the group, in the groups, in the combined group settings, like a man is always teaching. And then when you have like your breakouts, it’s like men lead the men’s, the boys groups and women lead the, the girls groups. And it had just like, not occurred to me that part of the reason for that was to keep women from teaching even like 13-year-old boys.

(2m 19s):
Yeah. I just as growing up thought like, oh, like, it’s like fun to be with the other boys, like boys and boys together and girls and girls together. Like, that’s just like how it is. Even though as like a closeted gay boy, I had close friendships with people who were girls. And so like, but I, I just like, I, I never questioned what function, like gender segregated classes or small groups might have, other than it being just sort of like a positive thing. And my mom was like, oh yeah, that’s like definitely part of fourth, this theology that like, women can’t teach men including teenage boys. And that just sort of like blew my mind.

(3m 0s):
And I think that like had she not pointed that out to me, I might not have ever stopped to even think about that. Right. And I know that, like, obviously I know that sexism is a thing, but like that particular way of like the ways in which small groups Sunday schools were like leveraged subtly in, in service of like the patriarchy just totally, totally slipped my, slipped my view. And so then I, I think that that, that was sort of like my church’s approach was like a very sort of like show don’t tell. They never outright said women can’t be trusted. They’re the lesser stacks, but they definitely like the ways in which they talked about men or women in terms of like nurturing and caring and the family and men being strong and leaders and protectors.

(3m 55s):
It was all this sort of like subtle reinforcement that like, definitely like wheeled its way into us, but without having to ever say like, men should be this way and, and women should be this way. And, and one is better than the other. But like the message that you walk away with is like, well, I never saw a woman preach before. Right. Like, but I, but I did, like, I, like Susan Tawa was like the, I don’t know what her title was, but like, she like helped with music and like, she would kind of talk like she was around and like, I had, like, I had relationships with female leaders, whether they were staff people or like college volunteers, but they were always like, upon reflection, like informal leader mentorship relationships, just ’cause I like gravitated towards those people.

(4m 44s):
They like didn’t actually have any authority over me and definitely weren’t in any sort of like decision making capacity in the organization. And so that’s just like a, a snapshot of the messages that I got from church. Yeah. And I imagine too that because there was so much gender segregated space, you’re also getting messages about gender simply by being segregated. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like yeah, like that, that is also the sneaky kind of influence too. And it, it, it feels all like, like it is true, right? That sexual orientation and gender and gender identity are like two separate things.

(5m 27s):
Like, and also they’re very much like wrapped up in one another that a lot of the ways in which my, like gayness or bisexuality is policed is around gendered expectations. Right. Like, I’m not like being a man in the correct way. And a lot of the ways in which that, like, that gets seen or things get processed is like via my gendered relationships with other genders. Right. Like I, I remember there was this, we took this, we rode our bikes from, from Maryland to North Carolina one summer, And I just like was friends with a lot of the girls. I would like ride ride my bike with a group of like four girls and one other guy maybe. And I remember I was at one point like sort of like lounging on a girl in the hotel, like on our last like few days in North Carolina.

(6m 14s):
And, And I don’t know if like the, the youth director said this to me or said this to someone about me or said it to my parents, but like, somehow it got back to me that like, someone had called me like a Casanova. ’cause I was like always with the girls And I was like, I’m just a gay boy. Like, like, but like the fact that I was like spending time with girls, like could, in this world you could only be read through like the lens of like, ladies man, which was just like fa fascinating. Yeah. I’m, I as you’re saying that, right? Like, I’m remembering my summer mission trip from hell that I talked about in, in at length and in the margins.

(6m 56s):
Right. And there was, I also got in trouble for hanging out primarily with the girls because I was violating gender expectations. Yeah. Right. Like, because I was visibly gender nonconforming. Something about me hanging out with the girls violated the norms of that community, even though technically I was doing what I was supposed to be doing. Right. Like, I, I wasn’t hanging out with the boys, which was also frowned upon. Yeah. Right. So I, I I, And I share that because like, I, I think that this is why, this is why like gender and evangelical spaces is so fucked up, right.

(7m 41s):
Because it’s so, it’s almost impossible to do it. Right? Yes. I I I have a story about that also. Yeah. No matter who you are, right. Like the, you there is always these like bizarre rules that you find yourself violating without intending to because like the rules aren’t real. Yeah. Right. And they’re not, they’re, they’re like made up in some white cis man’s head Right. Of like what he thinks masculinity and femininity should look like. And so that then gets enforced on everyone else. Like, even though it’s not even real for cis folks. Yeah. And I think that that’s what’s so interesting And I it varies from person to person, right.

(8m 26s):
Like, like leader to leader. Because I remember in, in seventh through eighth grade, I had a girlfriend at church and we were like together a lot. I mean, we only ever, it was months before we made out. We had our first kiss at, at church camp. But like I was, I don’t know what that was doing. I was like, probably not all that into her, but like, we were at least like holding hands and had our arms around each other a lot. And I remember in like seventh or eighth grade, like once or twice, people making comments about sort of like us being like attached at the hip. And it, it was like, it was like said in kind of like a bad way. Like we were spending like too much time together or we were like too close or we were like too physically affectionate with one another and like, maybe that was like starting to border on like sinful or lustful or something.

(9m 12s):
But then like fast forward a few years, I’m on this bike trip and I’m like laying on a girl’s lap and that a different leader is telling is calling me like a Casanova in a positive way. And I, I I, in hindsight, I wonder if like in seventh or eighth grade, they hadn’t clocked that I was queer yet. And so being too sexual was like a bad thing. But by like 10th grade they were starting to wonder maybe I was queer. And so me being close with a woman, they wanted to sort of like Yeah. Contextualize that in sort of a like, oh, this must be romance. We’re gonna positively reward this behavior because we want, we want you to say like, oh, you can do it like you with these ladies.

(9m 55s):
And like Yeah. It’s just so, ugh. I was 14. Like, get off my back. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I, I think like you, I grew up in a church that like talked about gender all the time without ever talking about gender. Right. And so it was also like super sneaky and super, you know, under the radar did lots and lots of things that were gender segregated. And like as a trans kid who didn’t have language for that, I just remember always feeling out of place. Right? Yeah. Because I was expected to be in certain spaces, but then I would get in those spaces and be like, I dunno what to do in this space.

(10m 36s):
Like, I’m deeply uncomfortable at the 17th baby shower of the year for, you know, 20 something year olds. Like, can I please go play foosball with the boys? But, and, and then, and you know, lots of things about like leadership. There were a lot of conversations about leadership, I think especially because I was a kid that was loud and upfront and very much gravitated toward the leadership role. And I do, like, I will give my youth pastor credit, like he gave me a lot of leeway and space to be myself And I think protected me from some folks who did not want me doing those things. Yeah.

(11m 16s):
But I definitely also got the sense of like, yes, you can do that because you are doing music or drama or whatever less. So when you’re doing other things though though, I, I do remember when I came, I did an internship at the church that I grew up in my late in my, maybe my sophomore year of college because I was studying youth ministry and in my youth ministry classes at college, I, so I’m getting a degree in youth ministry. And every single year in almost all of the classes, they would say to the people that they assumed were women in these classes. You can get this degree, but you can never be a youth pastor.

(11m 57s):
So you’re letting me get a degree in youth ministry while telling me I can never use second degree. Oh my god. I’m like, oh, so you’ll take my money. But anyway, so I had to do an internship and so I went back to the church that I grew up in And I remember they let me like lead, we went on a beach retreat and they like, let me lead all of the bible study sessions for kids of like all genders. But then I got back to college And I tried to tell my, my advisors like what I had done over my summer and a, they like ignored all of the stuff that I had done and then asked me what I wanted to do when I graduated. And I was telling them like, I’m feeling called to doing like theater and, and using whatever.

(12m 43s):
And they’re like, oh, you know, you should really work with children. I’m like, I don’t, I don’t want to work with children. And they were like, no, but like that’s really you, like you should work with kids. And I was like, I don’t think you’ve ever seen me work with kids. No one wants me working with children. It turns out that I did actually then work with children quite a bit Yeah. In my career. But, but it was this sense of like, I I, I remember really distinctly standing in front of them saying like, this is what I feel called to. And them just ignoring that because they had in their mind of like what women did quote unquote. Yeah. And again, it was like really sneaky. You know, I, I’m thinking about like, when I was, when I was doing research for my book, I read John Eldridges Wild at Heart, which now has had its 20th anniversary.

(13m 34s):
It has a fancy new updated edition with even more homophobia in trans great than the original. But you know what I was so struck by in this book, you know, which has sold like 20 million copies, right? So many churches have, have done book studies around this book is that I think there are some ways that Eldridge like really names the problem of that a lot of men experience of like being bored and angry and disconnected and not knowing why. And so I was reading that and I’m like, yeah, this is great. And then he’s, his solution is like, I don’t know, go camp a lot and buy a ceremonial braveheart sword and do more dude stuff.

(14m 22s):
Yeah. And like that will fix you. And I just, I, I remember, you know, reading that and thinking like, how depressing would it be if you were already struggling to read this book and feel seen? And then to have the solution be like, probably the thing that you’ve already tried to do that didn’t work. Right? Yeah. Like, you know, you’re, you’ve already tried to like be a better leader in your household. I’m using air quotes or like be more spiritual or like do more dude stuff. And like that hasn’t fixed it. And so now you’re reading this book that then says, because that hasn’t fixed it, you are like failing at masculinity and you’re probably sinning too.

(15m 5s):
Like, it’s just such a Yeah. It’s bad for men and it’s bad for like everyone that men interact with because then like no wonder they’re angry. Yeah. I, I’ve been thinking a lot because of your book and its title, No One Taught Me How to Be a Man, like, who taught me how to be a man. And like the message I received around masculinity growing up. And I remember being like, feeling very adrift. Like there were these messages that I was getting from pop culture that was like, you should be suave and you should be like sexually active and you should be macho. And then I was getting these messages from church that were like, you should be chased and you should be like a leader, but in sort of a like servant leader humble sort of way.

(15m 52s):
And I was like, which like, you should be like not having any sex. You should be having lots of sex. I’m like, which one is it? And, and, And I will pre pre preface this by saying like, my dad And I have like a great relationship now, but like growing up I like didn’t like, he had like a set of things that he liked to do probably that he did with his dad. Like he fished and he played football. And so like if I was like willing to do one of those things, like we could spend quality time together, but like he didn’t know how to talk to me about like my interests. He definitely didn’t know how to talk about either of our interior worlds. Like, I even remember being like, oh, I’m like starting to like grow facial hair. Like I don’t know what to do with this. Like, I think somebody just like started stealing my dad’s disposable razors and like shaving.

(16m 35s):
I mean, I, I have very fine facial hair, not very much of it. So I could get away with just sort of like shaving in the shower without any shaving lotion. And then at some point, my grandma bless her heart one year for Christmas, she gave every single grandkid a razor. So like my cousin who was like pre like, did not have any facial hair and like my other, my youngest cousin and then my oldest cousin, like, had been shaving for years and years and years and probably had his own razor. Like we all got razors. And so now I was like, oh, like now I have a razor. And so like maybe at that point I started like getting my own shaving cream, but there was like a long, like many years where I was just sort of like secretly shaving, which like feels like I don’t, like why was I doing that? Like why, like, did, did Noah notice?

(17m 16s):
Like, it was just like weird, you know? And in my dad’s defense, I don’t think he had a very great relationship with his dad. Like his dad was also just sort of like macho. And, and so it’s, it’s I And I, And I think in the nineties and two thousands, like the message was like, well that makes you gay. Like if you don’t have a good relationship with your dad, it makes you gay. But like, I know a lot of people in the nineties who didn’t have good relationships with their dads. But also like the, the thing that has like made my dad And I have like an incredible relationship now is like us being able to like, talk about things beyond the surface level and for him to like show up and support me in like, all areas of my life and for him to like grow a little and me to grow a little.

(18m 1s):
And like the funny thing is now like, because we have such a good relationship, like I, I like want to go fishing with him sometimes in a way that, like when I was a kid, I just absolutely hated it. But I mean also I’m a, you know, I’m maybe more more mature now, but it’s like, because we had this sort of like mutual relationship, like it, it allows us to sort of like see each other. And so like the, the solution to like the problems of like masculinity is not to like double down on all of the things that cause the problems. Like Yeah. Harshness of becoming an island onto yourself. Not like, not being vulnerable, not collaborating. Like we, that’s just like crazy. Like all the things that cause the problems that are being proposed as solutions.

(18m 41s):
And I’m not like any of those queer now, but I have like a great relationship with my dad and it’s not at all because like we got a sword or like went on a men’s retreat, you know, or like, he like taught me how to read the Bible, like disciples and whatever that that means. It’s like, ’cause we care about each other and we figured out how to talk about that and we like show up for each other. Yeah. Yeah. I I think that you’re right, like the thing that I’m really advocating for in the book is like not a one size fits all depiction of masculinity, but like an opening up of like what masculinity means and can look like, because I think that that’s what’s actually healthier for folks. Yeah. Right.

(19m 21s):
And I think too that like, I don’t know, as someone who very much identifies as a man, I also think the solution isn’t, And I know that this is controversial in some queer spaces, like the solution also isn’t to like abolish gender, right? Yeah. Like I, I personally believe that there are always gonna be people that identify within the binary somehow, and that that’s not a bad thing, right? That, but opening up like what that means and what that looks like and how we can embody and inhabit that while also paying attention to like how we show up for people of other genders. Like that’s where the real work is. And as someone who like very much had to fight for my masculinity and to claim my identity, like I, I get really like a little crabby when people are like, you shouldn’t exist.

(20m 10s):
Like, we should just get rid of gender entirely. And it’s like, no, actually, like my gender actually matters quite a bit to me. And I really had to work to figure out what it means to me and how to like carry it well and hopefully in a way that like doesn’t do harm to people of other genders. And I think that there’s a lot of people that at least feel, if not comfortable, they feel like, oh, like this is a word that does, describes me, right? That this is a word that I inhabit, whether that’s masculine or feminine or man or woman. And obviously of course there are also lots of people for whom those words don’t feel right. But yeah, I I I think it’s, it’s complicated to say like, what, what does this and what can this look Like?

(20m 56s):
Yeah. And I mean, I feel like I have bit of a broken record here, but I just feel like trans folks in general and like trans guys more specifically, and you even more specifically have like, taught me so much about like, I like what it means to be a man, but also like what it means to be a person. Like what it means to have a body, what it means to think like critically about open-heartedly about gender. Like I, I, one of my, my first roommate in New York and one of my best friends how we met, like came out as trans while we were living together. And like then like via him, I just ended up with tons of trans guy friends and going to the a trans health conference and really sort of like thinking critically about gender and my gender and my body and like what gender affirming care looks like for trans folks and what gender affirming care looks like for cis folks and like gender euphoria and like I is wearing a dress or painting my nails, like giving myself and like wearing makeup, like giving myself permission to experiment with those things.

(21m 59s):
But also like, not necessarily having those things necessarily mean that I am a woman or that those parts like have to are like inherently feminine, right? Like I can be a man who wears makeup, a man who with painted nails. Yeah. Like, I think that there’s a real gift there to sort of complicating our conversations around gender, you know, and, and you talked about sort of like, there are always gonna be, you think like some people who fit within the binary And I think even calling trans guys or trans women sort of like binary, binary trans folks, right? Like, I don’t know that even that feels a little reductive that like, like if gender is a spectrum, right?

(22m 39s):
Like people exist on all points of that spectrum and just because someone identifies as a man and not non-binary, just because someone wears in our culture traditionally masculine clothes, like also like, doesn’t necessarily even, you know, that person is like, believes that gender is a binary or in all aspects of your, their lives as like ascribed to the gender binary, right? Like I, you know, I think about you, you’re someone who is like definitely a man, right? And also, like, you’re kind and you’re thoughtful and you’re creative and like sometimes you’re grumpy, but also there’s like a real softness to you. And I think a, those are things that are like often not ascribed to like men in our patriarchal culture.

(23m 24s):
And also like why shouldn’t they be male traits? And there is like, yeah, it doesn’t make you, you less of a man or those traits less masculine, but it just is sort of like a whole big picture, right? And I wanna like, take all of it into consideration. And I, what I appreciate from you and many of the trans folks that I have learned from is like, we don’t have to seed compassion to femininity and we don’t have to seed leadership to masculinity. And perhaps like some folks, and sometimes I’ve wondered like, am I non-binary or am I a gender or gender queer? Like you can have a constellation of different traits and some like, those could maybe even be separate from how you like, identify inwardly.

(24m 8s):
And that like gender is like so much richer than like a checkbox. And like there’s like some real value in like thinking critically about your own gender. And I will say like, there’s, I’m so excited about your book because like as a cis person, our four cis people are for people who have like mostly thought of themselves as cis or like are unsure. There’s like some real power in like learning about gender or hearing about gender and generally masculinity specifically, like from a trans person that I like, I’m thinking about being at the Philly Trans Health Conference in like circa 2009 and being like out to dinner with like 12 people and being like the only cis guy there.

(24m 52s):
And just sort of like the different types of conversations that get had in a, in a room full of trans people and one in one cis person. Right. Or to, or there were times where we were like, I’m pretty sure people just like assumed that I was trans because there just like, that weren’t many cis guys at the trans health conference. And So just sort of like, what does it mean, like to have people assume that you’re trans and then to like figure out how to navigate that in a respectful way, like in an honest way, but also like not in a defensive way and like what does it mean to be trans? And like what would that mean? Most people can’t like transport themselves into a room of 12 trans folks and be the el cis person there. And so I think like your book is a great moment, like a great learning opportunity for folks to sort of like, see it through, like to see the world and to see gender and to see masculinity through this sort of specific lens that I think has a really universal application.

(25m 46s):
I know it’s been so meaning like the work of you and other trans folks has been so meaningful to me in my own sort of like gendered and embodied experience. Yeah. And I think that that’s like the biggest thing that I hope that this book does for folks is like, just offers the opportunity to reflect. Yeah. Right? Because I think that, I’ve said this before, but like one of the great gifts of of being trans is that you get to be intentional about how you inhabit and embody your gender. Like, because nothing is assumed and for me, like no one wants me to be a man. Yeah. And so I get to like be whatever kind of man I want because like, it doesn’t really matter, right?

(26m 29s):
Like, yeah, people don’t expect me to be in that space anyway, so like, I’m just gonna show up how I wanna show up. But I think that that’s been a real gift of, of saying like, oh, I can be this thing without having to like, to take on any of the things that other people say I have to take on And I can just like be myself. And, And I will say like, that has gotten significantly easier now that I primarily, you know, quote unquote pass as a, as a cis person, like that was definitely harder. It was harder to like inhabit myself in my fullness when I was still early in transition and constantly being mistaken for a gender I didn’t identify as, like, that was a lot harder.

(27m 15s):
But now that I’ve moved past that stage, it’s like I just don’t worry now, right? Like, I don’t worry if someone’s gonna think I’m effeminate or gay or whatever, like, that doesn’t bother me. But I wanna inhabit and embody my gender in a way that feels the most comfortable to me. And I, and that’s what I want for everyone, right? Like, I want everyone to be able to walk into a room and feel like they’re not policing their own gestures, that they’re not worrying about how they look or how they’re moving their hands or what their voice sounds like, right? Like that, that they can just show up and be seen as who they are and be welcomed in those spaces. And I think that what it takes to get there is for all of us to, to approach gender with more intention, and especially for men to approach gender with more intention.

(28m 7s):
Yeah. I’m, I think, I think there’s like something really wholly about the like reflecting and the like questioning and the, like, sitting in the uncertainty of it all. I mean, I, I know that like when I found the word queer, found the word bisexual, right? It like, I was like, oh, that’s like something that like makes sense to me. That’s just feels like it describes who I am. That is a way, like way by which I can find other people and like it, but even, even in that, right? Like, I don’t know, I’m like technically bisexual, but sometimes, like the word gay feels like more accurate. Sometimes the word queer feels more accurate, right? Like, so I kinda like hold all those labels loosely.

(28m 49s):
And I feel like with gender, like I, I I hold things even more loosely that like, am I cis? Am I, am I trans? Am I a gender? Am I gender queer? Am I non-binary? Like, for me at least feels like, like coming to a hard and fast like decision around like an ident like a gendered identity that is right for me feels less important to me as does sort of like holding it all kind of lightly and asking questions and experimenting and trying things on and seeing like, if I do this, how does that feel? How do, like, if I do that, how does that feel? How can I, what qualities in people in general do I admire?

(29m 32s):
What qualities in men do I admire? What qualities in women do I admire? What qualities in gender queer folks do I admire? What do I wanna sort of try on for myself? And sort of existing in sort of like a state of always becoming rather than feeling like I have arrived. And you know, there’s, there’s this, I know, I forget who said it, I think it was a Jewish, a queer Jewish per person was like, you know, we, we like say there’s a blessing in Judaism for, for bread, and it’s like, blessed are you, Adam And I are God sovereign of the universe who like brings forth bread from the earth. But like, obviously like bread doesn’t like literally come from the earth where it’s like wheat and flour and you have to, you have to like make the bread.

(30m 17s):
And there’s this, there’s this saying of like, it’s a reminder that like we join in the co-creation of creation like with God And I, And I know you’ve talked about like your transness being this sort of like, you take an active part in co-creating yourself and your gender and your body with God. And that is something that I have like taken on for myself in a less extreme way. I’m not like trans, I’m not on hormones, I’m on medication to keep my hair from falling out, which is like, you know, gender affirming care in its own way. But like, there’s something of this sort of like active ongoing process of like creating ourselves and creating ourselves a new, and the person that I am today is different than the person that I was a year ago and five years ago and 10 years ago.

(31m 0s):
And like, that’s like really cool and exciting And I don’t know who I will be in 10 years from now, but I want to get there with some intentionality. And I feel like the questions that you raise in this book are gonna help me, help, help me do that. I hope so, I, I hope that this book becomes an, an invitation to deeper conversation for folks, right? That it’s, it becomes a, that it’s a starting point, not a, not another manual of like ceremonial swords and parties that instead it’s like a, hey, how do we, how do we enter into these conversations? Yeah. So if folks wanna get this, it comes out officially April 15th, Amazon in particular, and some other booksellers in general sometimes send things out early.

(31m 46s):
So if you pre-order it, you might actually get it earlier. So hop on there now. You can get it anywhere books are sold. If you go to Queer Theology dot com slash books, it’ll be right at the top of that page. And there’s links to Bookshop and Barnes and Noble and Amazon to help you find those links quickly. But I know we’ve said this before, but pre-sales really help with authors in general. In particular, like new authors, newer authors, authors with marginalized identities to let the publisher know, to let potential booksellers know, like, this is a book that matters. These are stories that matter. These are types of authors that people are like interested in, in taking seriously. And like fortunately is a business, right? And so like, like, yeah, like queer authors get asked to write books because other queer authors sell books.

(32m 30s):
And so a think that this book is gonna be really exciting for everyone who is a man or is in love with a man, or knows a man who has had to work with a man. It would probably be more useful for, for men and masculine folks, but I think really for anyone. And also an added bonus of supporting you in particular and queer and trans authors in general. So Queer Theology dot com slash books to find all the links to No One Taught Me How to Be a Man, which comes out on April 15th. And if you happen to be in Minneapolis or thereabouts on April 14th, so the day before it officially releases, I’m gonna be having a launch party at Moon Palace books in Minneapolis.

(33m 9s):
You’ll be able to get the book a day early and I’ll be signing, there’s gonna be some special guests and some performances. It’s gonna be a really fun event. So if you wanna come to that Moon Palace books on April 14th and masks are still required at Moon Palace, so tuck a mask in your pocket and come on out. It’s gonna be really fun. Awesome. The Queer Theology Podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for L-G-B-T-Q Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post Failing At Gender appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re joined by author Elizabeth Jarrett Andrew (@elizabethjarrettandrew) on the podcast this week. Elizabeth is the author of “Swinging on the Garden Gate: A Memoir of Bisexuality & Spirit” and the chapbook, “A Map to Mercy,” due out in 2025. She is also the author of three books on writing. She is a founding member of The Eye of the Heart Center for Creative Contemplation, where she teaches writing as a transformational practice and hosts an online writing community. In this engaging conversation, Elizabeth shares her journey as a queer contemplative Christian and how her spiritual path intertwines with her identity and creative work. She discusses the importance of spiritual direction in her personal growth, the practice of rewriting one’s narrative, and the role of creativity in spiritual exploration. Elizabeth emphasizes the value of community and rituals in tapping into creative energy, and offers insights on how anyone can approach writing as a spiritual practice, regardless of their perceived creative abilities. We totally agree with Elizabeth’s understanding that there is power in creativity and personal practices in fostering change in a complex world.

Takeaways

Identifying as a queer contemplative Christian shapes my worldview.
Coming out is a lifelong process of spiritual growth.
Spiritual direction provides a safe space for exploration.
Rewriting our narratives is essential for personal integrity.
Creativity is a fundamental aspect of the spiritual journey.
Rituals help connect with creative and spiritual energy.
Writing can be a private, transformative practice.
The process of writing is often more important than the product.
Community support is vital for spiritual and creative growth.
Sharing personal stories requires discernment and care. Be intentional about who you share your writing with.
Writing is a process that requires multiple drafts.
Our identities are multi-dimensional and complex.
Revising our stories adds depth and richness.
The journey of publishing can be challenging yet rewarding.
Sexuality can be a sacred aspect of our identity.
Faith and sexuality can coexist harmoniously.
We are interconnected and part of a larger community.
Creativity is essential in times of uncertainty.
Personal practices can lead to meaningful change.

Chapters

(03:18) Exploring Queerness and Spirituality

(07:20) The Role of Spiritual Direction in Personal Growth

(10:38) Rewriting Your Narrative: A Spiritual Practice

(14:36) Creative Work as a Spiritual Journey

(16:43) Rituals for Tapping into Creativity

(19:27) Writing as a Spiritual Practice for Everyone

(23:20) The Process of Sharing Your Story

(30:42) Swinging on the Garden Gate: A Memoir of Identity

(34:18) The Journey of Publishing and Reissuing a Memoir

(39:08) Sexuality as a Seat of Sacred Knowing

(42:06) Faith and Identity: Lessons from Bisexuality

(45:00) The Next Horizons of Queerness and Faith

(47:57) The Power of Creativity in Challenging Times

Resources:

Learn more about Elizabeth Jarrett Andrew and her work at https://www.elizabethjarrettandrew.com/
https://www.spiritualmemoir.com/
Eye of the Heart Center for Creative Contemplation
Elizabeth’s online writing community
Be part of the workshop, The Politics of Jesus by joining the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts From Genesis Drug Revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how tuning In each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Welcome back to the Queer Theology Podcast. Our guest today is Elizabeth Jarret. Andrew Elizabeth is the author of Swinging on the Garden Gate, A Memoir of Bisexuality and Spirit. Now, in its second edition, the novel, Hannah delivered a collection of personal essays on the threshold Home, hardwood and Holiness, the Chapbook, A Map to Mercy.

(53s):
Due out in 2025 and three books on writing, writing The Sacred Journey, the Art and Practice of Spiritual Memoir, living Revision, a Writer’s Craft, A Spiritual Practice Winner of the Silver Nautilus Award and the Release Finding Creativity and Freedom. After the writing is done, She is a founding member of The Eye of the Heart Center for Creative Contemplation, where she teaches writing as a transformational practice and hosts an online writing community. She’s a recipient of two Minnesota State Arts Board artists Fellowships, the Loft Career Initiative Grant, and is a Minnesota Book Awards finalist. She lives in Minneapolis with her wife, daughter, and two rambunctious cats. You can learn more about Elizabeth at Elizabeth jarret andrew.com and spiritual memoir.com.

(1m 38s):
You’re really gonna love this conversation, so let’s get to it. Welcome, Elizabeth. We are so happy to have you on the podcast today. Really looking forward to this conversation. I’m really grateful to be here. We love to start by asking, if you were at a queer cocktail party, how would you introduce yourself and your work? You know, we’ve already heard your kind of fancy official bio, but you know, how do you introduce yourself casually? Are there any other identities that are really important to you? Yeah, I would probably say that I’m a queer contemplative, queer contemplative Christian, identify as bi, but actually that kind of bisexual lens and my contemplative lens feel very much the same to me.

(2m 31s):
So it’s really about seeing the world non dually and practicing, you know, kind of, kind of this intentional practicing becoming, you know, like we come out, we come out in a big way as queer people, but I think of the contemplative practices coming out all lifelong and bringing out what’s within us. So yeah, I would say I am a queer contemplative Christian. We’re gonna talk a little bit more about in depth about your work and your books, but first I’m wondering if you’d be willing to share a little bit about your spiritual journey and how queerness has intersected with that.

(3m 17s):
Yeah, it’s been critical. So I was raised in a liberal United Methodist church by a loving family, and it was a dying congregation, so, you know, super small, racially diverse, financially strapped, and so every person who showed up on a Sunday morning was precious to them. In my late teens, early twenties, I began in college, I began exploring my sexual identity and really didn’t have words for it.

(3m 58s):
I knew that that something was not right with the story that I had told myself in my head about who I am, and it wasn’t matching up with the truth of my body and, and attractions. So I ended up doing two things, just kind of out of instinct. The first was putting myself into spiritual direction, because really I had the sense that I couldn’t grow in my spiritual dimension without addressing my sexuality. And, and so that safe listening space was really critical to my coming out.

(4m 43s):
And then the second thing that I did just instinctually was get myself to a reconciling United Methodist Church. Again, another really small congregation. I I had moved, I grew up in New York And I moved to Minneapolis. So the big irony of my coming out, or, or I should say the huge grace of my coming out was that one day after church, during adult ed at this, at this little United Methodist Church, they, they were already a reconciling congregation, so they were already overtly welcoming gays and lesbians, but they had a panel discussion to help them consider whether to also intentionally welcome trans and bi folks.

(5m 27s):
So after church, there was this panel of trans folks and a couple bisexual people who were speaking about their experiences and their faith. That was the first time that like the light bulb went off in my head, oh, I’m bisexual, so I am, I like one of the blessed people that church gave me language around my sexual identity. So from there, it was really a matter of I’m a writer, and so it was really a matter of rewriting my, my narrative.

(6m 9s):
You know, here’s this story that I told myself about who I was and the story that my parents assumed for me and my culture assumed for me, And I had to extract myself that from that and, and rewrite it. So I did a lot of that in spiritual direction. I did a lot of that in what became my first book, which is a memoir, but coming out. So I came out during joys and concerns at church, Love that. And, and coming out for me really was intricately connected to my, what I would then have called my, what I did call my relationship with God, that, that I had this sense of, you know, stepping into my own integrity and my own truth, aligned myself with the integrity and truth that I think really is the source of our life, a source of life and source of love.

(7m 14s):
And so, so coming out for me was the start of my spiritual journey. I’m, I’m so fascinated by the fact that you intuitively went to spiritual direction only because I, I feel like as a college student, I didn’t even know that that existed. So I’m, I’m, where was that in your kind of consciousness? Like how did you know to seek that out? Yeah. And and what did that do for you? How, how did that help unlock things for You? Yeah, I was actually outta college at that point. I think I was 22, 23, so still really young. And it was, again, through this church, this, this United Methodist church.

(7m 55s):
We were on retreat and this man by the name of Jim Dodge, who was a, oh, he was a retired United Methodist pastor in a, wh he’d been in a wheelchair his entire life. He was also trained as a spiritual director, and he had started a ministry doing spiritual direction with people on the streets. And so he was leading this retreat for us and offered to do, we brief one-on-ones with participants, and there was something about the words spiritual director, spiritual direction, or spiritual director. It just set my heart, like thumping, you know, I was just, I had never heard of anything like it before, but I think I, again, just intuited that I desperately needed direction, and I’ve since, you know, I’ve since kind of backed away from that term, because actually I think the spirit is the one directing and the, the person who sits with the spiritual directors had is really just kind of a, a mirror or a good question asker.

(9m 1s):
Yeah. But, you know, I think, so I’ve written my whole life, And I think what spiritual direction did for me was kind of create this human blank page where I could test my story, kind of write the rough draft of my story, and have loving open-ended questions be asked of me, such that I could listen more deeply. So, so in many ways, and, And I was very fortunate because I landed with a very good director right away, but in many ways, spiritual direction really functioned for me, like the blank page as a place to be messy and be heretical and cry a lot, and, you know, like, really question my beliefs about God and, and actually not believe, and, you know, like, it just was this permission giving space where, where I could grow.

(10m 4s):
Yeah. You, you’ve said a couple of times used the phrase like, rewriting your story or Rewriting Your Narrative, which I love. And we just did a, a journaling workshop literally called Rewrite Your Story, which is all about like how to do that. But I can imagine that there are some folks listening who are like, I don’t know what that even means. Like, how, what it, how do you do that? It, it sounds a little maybe wooey or, or, or fictitious, right? That you’re just like pretending to be something. And so I’m, I’m curious how you would, how you would talk about or explain this practice of rewriting your own narrative.

(10m 48s):
And I know that’s a really big question, but It’s a big question. But, you know, I think in some ways people who have done the hard work of coming out, or people who have done the hard work of, of being in recovery, we, we know what it means to rewrite your story because we’ve lived it, you know, it’s like there’s, there’s just one way of being in the world, and then you go through this really difficult process, but at the other end, you are living in the world in a different way. That that’s so, so, I, I think, I think to some extent, any of anyone who’s had major internal personal change knows the experience of rewriting your story, but, but the dimension that I think being a writer I can bring to that conversation is, and, and, and being a contemplative, is that we can be intentional about how about participating and how, how our stories get written.

(11m 59s):
So just to give you an example, I coach writers in book development, and lots of times when a writer puts a, puts down a first draft of their story, it’s kind of the story that they’ve told themselves. You know, it’s, it’s like, this is, this is who, you know, how I’ve understood my life. But over the course of writing it, all these insights come up, you know, like you realize all of these things that you didn’t know and all of these memories come up that you didn’t remember. And then you start seeing themes like, oh, this mirrors that. And, and there’s these patterns across my life that are really remarkable.

(12m 41s):
And then if you do the hard work of revising that story, you, you can take those themes and say, okay, well, I noticed that this theme cropped up here, here, and here, but it’s not here, but I know it should be, and so I can, I can add it here. So we then can like, find continuity and integrity in, in our stories simply by looking for it. That, that we didn’t know we held. Here’s, here’s another, here’s another good example. You know, lots of times when people are writing memoir, they just write a bunch of little fragments of, of memories, right? That, and that’s a great, that’s a great way to start. And then, then they’re like, well, how does this all fit together?

(13m 24s):
And at that point, we get to make choices, right? Like we can fit all those fragments together in a story that says, woe is me. I’ve been so neglected and hurt, and you know, I’ve had such a bad lot in life, and I’m gonna lick my wounds in this story. Or you can frame the story as, oh my goodness, look at all the, the people who came into my hard life to help me along. Or you could frame the story as how did I become who I am today, given where I started? You know? So there’s all these different ways that we can tell the same story, and as writers, we get to choose, right?

(14m 7s):
So, so then in the process of choosing one frame or another, we kind of live into the frame that we’ve chosen, which is just like miraculous. And it is kind of, but it’s a really beautiful process. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You know, so you’ve already started talking about the fact that you coach writers. You have several books out on writing and memoir, and specifically writing and even revising as A Spiritual Practice. And I’m wondering if you can just say a little bit more about specifically the intersections you find between creative work and spiritual practice. Yeah.

(14m 48s):
This is, this is the intersection that I just find infinitely mysterious and, and exciting. So I experience the spiritual dimension, the sacred dimension as, as creative. So, you know, I think that’s where with my coming out experience and kind of coming into myself, it essentially was this co-creative process where I was willing to, you know, with a lot of, having gone through a lot of anger and disappointment and, you know, loneliness, but willing to, to do that work, to be able to name who I am today, I was participating in what I understand to be kind of like this basic human spiritual thrust, which is to become more alive.

(15m 54s):
And so, so I think that the spiritual journey really is ultimately a creative journey that, that we get to participate in who we’re becoming, and we get to participate in who the, you know, what the world is becoming. And it’s relational, you know, it’s relationship relational with our bodies. It’s relational with our, our partners. And it’s definitely relational with the, the natural world. And, and with, with the sense of mystery or inspiration or, or life force or energy that’s kind of everywhere and kind of waiting for us to, to be open enough to to, to invited into our lives.

(16m 43s):
Do you have any particular ways that are rituals for you to tap into this creative or spiritual energy? Well, journaling, journaling’s a big one. I, you know, I usually start my morning with writing down my dreams. So that’s, that’s a direct way of listening to that mystery, because dreams are so peculiar and, and instructive and mysterious. And it’s not that I try to interpret my dreams necessarily, but just writing them down is a way of paying attention. And then also, you know, just checking in with myself in the morning.

(17m 25s):
I usually do a little bit of spiritual reading first thing in the morning, and then I do silent prayer practice. That’s, you know, it’s a lot like meditation. So those are, I light a lot of candles. And so, so that’s kind of the personal dimension, you know, as a, I’m also a very strong believer in community. I think that’s my, my Christian upbringing and that tiny dying church that kinda loved me into being, they has just really made me convicted, I guess, that, that we need each other in order to experience the spirits movement.

(18m 13s):
And so, you know, church is, has, is and has always been problematic for me. But, but I do attend church and, and my partner And I are raising our daughter and church, but honestly, it’s a circle of women, two other queer women, and a woman of color who’s straight, who we pray together weekly, and we’re working together, and we we’re sharing a vision for a creative community together. And that’s the place where I, I feel that that kind of bigger creative force where I’m part of a bigger movement.

(18m 54s):
So, so it’s that, you know, kind of gathering, listening, listening to the spirits movement and silent prayer, or sometimes we make art, sometimes we dance, and then also listening deeply to each other, you know, our personal stories and, and, you know, our longings. And it’s hard work. It’s, you know, it’s not, it’s not like it’s bliss, but community communicating. Oh, to me, that’s the word in church. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I, I’m, I know that there are some folks who are listening who are probably thinking, well, I’m not a writer, or, I don’t consider myself a creative person.

(19m 38s):
And so I’m wondering if you have any specific advice on like, how to start writing as A Spiritual Practice, especially for maybe someone who like doesn’t consider themselves already prone to writing or, or to being creative. Yeah. Well, I would first say that lots of times we have too narrow an idea of what creativity is. So cooking a good meal or, or, you know, initiating a great conversation or, or, you know, rearranging a room or, you know, there’s all sorts of ways to be creative starting a business.

(20m 25s):
So, so I think that creativity is really about kind of stepping forward and being willing to put your particular fingerprint on something beyond you. In terms of writing the, you know, we come to writing with so much baggage because it was a, a means of testing what we’ve learned in school, and we also assume that what goes down on the page is meant for an audience. And so, so it, we, I mean, I could go on and on about all of the incorrect assumptions that we have about writing.

(21m 8s):
You know, like we, we also have the incorrect assumption that like what we put down on the page, it has to be perfect somehow, or that, that it’s, that it’s somehow static when in fact, writing is fluid, it can always be changed. You know, we, it can always be kept private. I used to work with a writer who, a woman who really wanted to write, but was super stuck and, and just was terrified to put anything onto the page. And so we would sit together and write, and then we’d go out to the street and burn it, just because, because it’s like, you know, it is totally, the process is valuable. There’s another assumption we make about writing.

(21m 48s):
We assume that it’s all about product. And, and the process itself is infinitely valuable. It’s so transformational, so transformative. And so it, you know, yes, the product can do beautiful things in the world, and it’s really exciting to share, but the product does not have to be the point. The point can be the process. So even if you know, you, you can’t spell, and your handwriting stinks, and, and you’re, you know, like everything you put down on the page looks horrible. You know, even that, that practice of seeing our brokenness and, and loving it anyhow, and trusting that it’s valuable anyhow, is tremendous.

(22m 33s):
Like, that is spiritual practice, right? Is to, to see ourselves mirrored back in a, in a way that’s uncomfortable and to say, yeah, that’s still me. Yeah. Yeah. I Love that. So, so journaling, I’m a strong proponent of journaling or, or writing whatever, poetry or memoir, whatever, with no audience in mind, intention of no audience. So I also had a student one time who, like, she had her husband who was a welder, like weld all of her journals shut into a box. Oh, wow. Metal box, you know, so like, what, what does it take for you to feel safe on the beach?

(23m 14s):
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and we’re gonna talk about your memoir in, in just a second, but I, I wanted to ask like how the, kind of the flip side of that is that often I think folks are wondering when it’s time to share, right? Like, how do, how do I know that I’m ready to share the, either my memoir or this particular story? And so I’m wondering for you, you know, what, how did you deal with, with that question of like, am I ready to, to write this memoir? But then also, am I ready to share this? Yeah. Well, so I’m a little different because I have this compulsion to write, like I write, to find out what I think and what I believe.

(24m 2s):
And so, so it was, it, it’s never, it was never a question, you know, should I write this memoir or shouldn’t I, it was like I had to write it. The real question is, do I share it when and how? So, so the writing of it, so, so essentially I came out to myself by writing, and, and it was, it was in the journal, but it was also literally needing to write out my life story so that I could see it with new lenses, you know, like, okay, if I, if I am bisexual, what, you know, suddenly that childhood friendship I had with the girl in my art class who I was totally obsessed with, you know, like I see it in a new light, right?

(24m 54s):
Yeah. Yeah. And so in any case, I had to, I had to write it out in order to, in order to even arrive at the place where I could say the word bisexual out loud. And so, you know, when I came out to my parents, it was this, you know, I basically said, okay, I’ve thought about this a lot. I’ve been like struggling with this for years, And I think I’m bisexual, and here’s my book. Read it. And so, so really the two were like, the writing got me to the point where I could come out, and the coming out process to me was the same as sharing my writing, at least, at least in my intimate spaces.

(25m 41s):
Yeah. But, you know, just kind of in general, like that process, like when do you share it? It’s a, a discernment process, right? Because the privacy of the page is so precious, you know, it’s, it’s like, it’s like the privacy of prayer and that there, you know, it’s, it’s ultimately permission giving and ultimately forgiving. And you, you don’t want to puncture that space too soon. You don’t want to, to, and you, and, and when puncture is kind of a harsh word, but I think of it as like a cloud or, or, you know, like this, I I call it like a cloud of privacy that I think is really important to write in.

(26m 29s):
And at some point I think you feel strong enough with the content of what you’re writing about that it’s like, oh, this, this can be shared. But, but it’s also super important to only share with people who are going to give you what you most need. And lots of times, family and friends are not, that the not the right people to share writing with. Lots of times it’s a writing group actually, you know, a bunch of strangers or, or a teacher or spiritual director or a pastor. You know, like lots of times it’s someone who can see through the, you know, whenever I would share my writing with my mom, she would always say, well, you weren’t, you’re exaggerating there, you know, she would kind of be nitpicky about these stupid details and totally disregarding kind of the heart what I was writing.

(27m 22s):
It’s like, I just didn’t need that. I mean, you know, she wasn’t disowning me, which is, you know, that’s also a possible reaction, right? But to, to be really intentional and careful and deliberate about who you share what with, when, and then, you know, so I, I write in this cloud of privacy, but then I, like Stephen King says, write with the door closed and rewrite with the door open. And I kind of gradually open the door. So, you know, at first I share it with my trusted writing group, you know, then I might share it with my partner, and then, you know, eventually I might choose some beta readers who are, you know, who understand my vision and, you know, go on down the line.

(28m 10s):
Yeah. I love that. I, I think that’s so important, right? Because I think often because of the internet, we, we think of sharing as, like, I write it in privacy, and then it’s for the whole world, right? And there’s no intermediary spaces. And so I, I love that kind of teasing out of there, there’s there gradations, right? Of, of how we share. I think that’s so important. Yeah. How we share and also gradations of how we write. You know, I, in some ways, I, I think of that as creative bypassing. So you write something and then it’s out there, right? And basically you’ve bypassed the whole revision process, that whole process of re-seeing and, you know, seeing a new, and seeing the different eyes.

(28m 55s):
And, you know, which to me is the, the, the bisexual lens. Okay, let’s, let’s look at this from many angles. Let’s embrace the many perspectives. There’s a, a really great Ted talk by, oh gosh, I’m hoping I remember her name. It’s Che is her last name, and it’s, she’s talking about how when she first came from, I think it’s Nigeria to the United States to go to college, her roommate had all of these assumptions about her. You know, like she was amazed that, that this woman could light, you know, use a stove. And, and so Adii says, okay, this, my roommate had a single story about me.

(29m 40s):
And, and prejudice is a, like a single story about a person. But actually what what we want is more than a single story. We wanna, you know, who we are is many, many stories, and we need that multidimensional multidimensionality of ourselves in order to really see ourselves as whole. And I think for writing, like when you write your first draft, that’s a single story. And the, the beautiful, hard, long, deep process of developing a book or, you know, any, any a poem or whatever, a longer work is about layering that first draft with many other drafts.

(30m 30s):
You know, like adding the multidimensionality to your story, not just, you know, it takes time, it takes commitment, but, but if, if you love writing, then like, that’s a fantastic journey. Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit about your book, Swinging on the Garden Gate, A Memoir of Bisexuality and Spirit. For those who haven’t read it, can you just say briefly what it’s about? Yeah, so I, when I was coming out, the biggest struggle for me was reconciling my sexual identity with my faith. Because even though I was raised in this very generous, loving, liberal Protestant congregation, I absorbed by osmosis all of the teachings that our culture somehow circulates.

(31m 25s):
That you can’t, you know, that it’s sinful to be sexually deviant or, you know, like the, and, and, and that, that somehow my attraction to women was wrong. No one ever told me that in, you know, from the pulpit, you know? So I, so I was really spared the direct teaching of that, but it did come through the culture. And so, and in fact, you know, I grew up with two men living in the house to the north of us and two women living in the house to the south of us. And I just thought they were two old ladies and two old men.

(32m 7s):
And, you know, never really meant anything to me. But one of my only memories of my mother talking about homosexuality was her standing at the kitchen sink peeling carrots and saying, oh, we’re surrounded by them. And, and So just, you know, just kind of like little, you know, microaggressions in, in the house that taught me that this was not okay. And I mean, it’s not to say, you know, like we always brought them Christmas kook in, so, you know, and they were good neighbors, but, but there’s just, you know, just that little sense of this is not right. And so, so in, in any case, the book is, is really about reconciling that kind of Christian indoctrination that I absorbed with my pure knowing of, of truth and, and energy and life.

(33m 11s):
And I was a really mystical child and had a very dynamic dream life and dynamic sense of, of the presence of something beyond me that eventually I called God. And so how, how to bring those two stories, you know, my, my embodied experience of the sacred and this taught doctrinal experience or, you know, lessons about God and morality and sacred scripture and all that, how, how to, how to reconcile the two of them.

(33m 52s):
So, so that’s, it’s kind of an intellectual perspective on what it is that it’s really my life story and, and how I was able to, to reclaim Christianity as true to my, it kind of rewrite the Christian language so that, so that it was mine and, and true to my experience. Yeah. So you, you wrote this book a, a while ago, it’s now in its second printing. I’m curious what your journey has been with the book, whether that is, you know, how you feel about it now, or what has changed since the book.

(34m 32s):
You know, it can be wild to like put something out in the world and that have, that be people’s only, you know, knowledge of you. And so I’m just curious, what, what’s that journey been like? Yeah, yeah. So I, it, it came out in the year 2000 when I was, how old was I? About 30. And it was really small, you know, finding a home for it was really difficult because, you know, most traditional publishers wouldn’t touch the Christian aspect of it, and most Christian publishers wouldn’t touch the bisexual aspect of it. I feel very fortunate that I found a home with the Unitarians, and they published, you know, like 500 copies.

(35m 17s):
It was a really small print run, but it served as this beautiful permission slip to me to go out into the world and speak. And so I spoke at so many unitarian fellowships and national reconciling conferences and my high school and, you know, so it was, it was an opportunity to be really at, not in a massive scale, but to be out in a, in a pretty big way for me, and almost entirely, it was a good experience. So I got to meet all kinds of people. I got to meet a lot of queer people, a lot of people really hurt by the church, and, and it felt really connective and good to be able to share my story.

(36m 10s):
Then, you know, the, they did a, they actually did a second print run, and so I think in the end it was maybe 1500 copies went out into the world, but it went on a print, And I had a bunch in my garage that I just, you know, sell a couple every year. And then, then, I don’t know, five years ago or so, a friend of mine asked me to do this tour through a bunch of two year colleges in Wisconsin speaking to, you know, the queer clubs and, you know, like little G-L-B-T-Q-A resource rooms, you know, that sort of thing.

(36m 51s):
So this was, this was, you know, 28 years after the book was published initially, And I just was heartbroken by the questions that people were asking me, you know, these, these young kids saying, wait a minute, are you saying it’s possible to be queer and spiritual? And you know, much less Wait, you mean you’re saying you can be queer and Christian? So just, just this, you know, this gulf between the life of faith and queer identity that just, it made me weep.

(37m 31s):
And I decided at that point that I was gonna just self-publish it the second time because it needed to be in the world, even if it was just, you know, a handful of people. And actually, you know, I wanna tell one other story from, from when it first came out. I was speaking on a panel at a local college, and this young woman came up to me with her copy of Swinging on the Garden Gate, and it was completely mutilated. Like she had underlined and highlighted and dogeared and, you know, like, it, it was, she had just used that book, and she asked me to sign it, And I was so moved by how, how she had used it.

(38m 17s):
And then that I ca got to know her eventually. And she, you know, she was raised Catholic, she came out lesbian, she left the Catholic church, became a Methodist, went to seminary, went into the ministry, you know, like she had this strong calling that she claims my book helped awaken in her. And so, so I, you know, I, I, going into the second printing, I, I knew that it didn’t need to reach massive numbers of people, it just needed to reach the right people. And so I decided I was gonna self-publish it. But before I did, I went back to scanner house And I said, you know, I’m gonna do this, and are you interested?

(38m 59s):
And they said, you know, I think that the time might be right now that maybe it was too early to publish it, and that the time’s right now, so they reissued it, which I’m really grateful for. You use this phrase in the preface to the second edition Sexuality as a Seat of Sacred Knowing. And I, I love that. And I, and I’m wondering if you can say a bit more about what you mean by that, or what that means. Yeah, I, I mean, I think one of the real gifts that gay lesbian by transgender, you know, non-binary, you know, that, that folks who have, who have had to claim identity in opposition to assumptions of the dominant culture, like one of the gifts that we bring to the world is this understanding of sexuality as a, an essential component of identity, right?

(40m 2s):
Like, and, and gender, you know, like this is an essential component of who I am and, and coming out forces us to be aware of it and be in relationship to it. And I think sexuality is just so basic to our life force that when we’re in loving relationship with it, it’s this really powerful sacred dimension of who we are. So, you know, we, I think this is also a, an unfortunate inheritance of, of our Christian, the Christian influence on our culture.

(40m 43s):
We’ve really kind of denigrated sexuality as not sacred, you know, we’ve separated it from the sacred. And so as you know, because of that, it’s, you know, it’s like everything else that we’ve separated from the sacred, it has kind of this, when I was studying liberation theology, it’s like, God, there’s this, God has a preference, preference for the poor, right? You know, like, like, and, and there’s something about the margins, those, those marginal places of our lives, of our culture where, where there’s real energy and creativity.

(41m 25s):
I mean, sexuality is also the source of our creativity, right? Like, and so to, to, I think think, I think when we heal that dichotomy, that division between sexuality and spirituality and reenter into kind of a loving, exploratory relationship with it, that it just has the potential to, to fuel us in, in a really powerful and healing way. You’ve talked a little bit about bisexuality and contemplative nature and how those two have, have gone together for you.

(42m 6s):
I’m wondering if you can say even more about what your sexuality and your identity has taught you specifically about your faith or how it has opened up your faith in, in different ways. One of the things that Christianity’s wisdom, tradition, you know, the, the legacy of the mystics and the, the desert mothers and fathers and, you know, kind of the, the, that, that current, that generally we don’t hear about in church, but that, that has preserved this, this teaching, which is that we can be in direct relationship with our source.

(42m 47s):
And so I believe that having to come out and having, having my embodied experience of attraction to people of many genders, and also having this embodied experience of, of sexual attraction to the world, you know, to to like, you know, that, that there’s a sexual dimension to like a, a, a beautiful sunset, you know? So, so to to, to live in this body teaches me direct relationship with the amazing embodied world in the embodied spirit of the world.

(43m 39s):
And, you know, in particular my wife and in particular my daughter and my cats. But, but, but you know, like there’s, there’s this way that being in our bodies is connects us to something beyond our bodies. I’m not being very articulate about this, I’m afraid, but it’s, it’s kind of, that’s okay. It’s so intimate, isn’t it? Like that, that place of, you know, I’m thinking about many of the saints who, who just, like, when they describe their relationship with God, or like St. John of the Cross is a great example.

(44m 19s):
Like, for St. John of the cross prayer is sneaking out of the house and going to the lover’s apartment and resting his head on his lover’s chest. You know, like, so, so there’s this, there’s this arena in Christianity where that is like, that’s devotion. That’s, that’s an alive faith. And of course it’s, you know, it’s scary to a lot of people. But to me that describes my, my experience of relating to my, you know, my partner and to the spirit.

(45m 2s):
I’m, I’m curious, you know, you’ve, you’ve been in this world of, of writing about the intersections between faith and identity for a long time. We have too, and I’m always curious, you know, where folks see the next horizons of the intersections of queerness and faith going. I’m wondering you I do. I’m so glad you asked that question. Yes. Because I think the next stage for us, And I think the queer community can be leaders in this arena, is really shifting how we perceive our identity as human.

(45m 45s):
We tend to understand ourselves as separate from one another, right? Like, my identity is a white, middle aged queer woman who’s a mom and a writer, you know? So that’s how I understand my identity. But I think ultimately we’re not separate people, you know, like I am my ancestors And I am my descendants, And I am my teachers, And I am in the people that I’ve taught. And, you know, it’s like, so, so we are vastly interconnected people, And I think if we could move, if we, you know, when we do move into really owning that sense of identity, that I, you know, a person is a person through other persons, that, that, that’s an evolutionary leap.

(46m 44s):
And the reason I think the queer community can and should be our spiritual leaders in that area is because we’ve already done, we, we already have practiced revising identity, you know, revising our sense of identity and participating in how we, how we name ourselves, and what we wanna be, how we wanna, who we wanna be in the world. And we could keep going, like, we don’t have to stop with whatever label we’ve given ourselves. Now we can continue to come out and to come into this much bigger sense of who we are. So, so that’s what I think about a lot actually, is how, how to encourage everyone, but queer folks in, in, in particular, not to kind of stop growing once, you know, to stop coming out once you’ve named yourself, but to keep exploring, you know, what more am I and what went, what might it mean if I kind of broke down some of the boxes, kind of the individuality boxes that, that I’ve assumed.

(47m 56s):
Yeah. Well, I love that, you know, we’re living in kind of a fraught time, and some folks might be wondering, why bother with things like writing or art making or, or being creative, right? Like, we have bigger things to worry about. And I’m wondering how, how you would answer those folks. The, you know, what do we really have power to change? And it’s ourselves, right? So what, so by, you know, what, what kind of, what kind of world do we want? You know, we want a world that is inclusive and uplifting and peaceful and, and connective and meaningful.

(48m 40s):
So where do you start? You start with yourself, you know, like you start with, you know, your interior, honestly, you know, like how is your heart? Is your heart connected and growing and peaceful? And the, in my experience, the practice, a creative practice or A Spiritual Practice, it seems self-centered. It seems small, but in fact, those practices connect us to the depths of who we are. And those depths feed us in ways that enable us to, and compel us to make change in the world.

(49m 29s):
So, so I would actually argue the opposite, that unless we’re doing these practices that connect us to our roots, anything we do in the world is gonna be ineffective. So, so it’s like tapping into what’s beyond us, you know, what’s bigger than us? We’re very small, kinda helpless. People don’t, you know, we’re pretty ineffective, right? But, But we can tap into the power of the natural world and the power of community, and the power of the spirit. The power of love. Like if you can, if you can root yourself in that, you’re just kind of, you can’t help but make, you know, bring that about, bring that into being around you.

(50m 14s):
So, so yeah, for me it’s like, you know, I, I love activists who are, who are doing really great work in the world, but I think nothing’s worse than an angry activist. And really what I mean, well, I should say, let me qualify that anger can be holy too, but you wanna root that anger and love. So it’s like, okay, where, where am I rooting myself? This conversation has been so lovely. I feel like we could keep going forever, but I’m conscious of time. If, if folks wanna know more about you and your work, where is the best place for them to connect with you? Yeah, Elizabeth jar andrew.com.

(50m 55s):
It’s Elizabeth with a z and Jarret, J-A-R-R-E-T-T, Andrew, without an s that’s my, my author website. And, and then I also have a website that’s spiritual memoir.com, that’s resources for writing and reading and publishing, spiritual memoir. So there’s all sorts of classes and an online writing community that, that I host for free. So yeah, there’s all sorts of ways to connect there. Amazing. We’ll link those in the show notes so that people can just scroll down and, and click. And we love to close by asking, what is one thing that’s been bringing you joy lately?

(51m 37s):
Baking. I amazing. I, after the election, spent the whole evening making all of my mother’s favorite brownies and blondies. And I think that that was my, you know, if I, if here’s what I can control in the world, I can make people smile by feeding them sweets. Love it. Well, thank you so, so much for taking the time to, to do this interview. I really appreciate it. Oh, Shannon, thank you so much for, for inviting me. The Queer Theology podcast is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LGBTQ Christians and straight cisgender supporters.

(52m 18s):
To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

The post The Power to Change Our Story with Elizabeth Jarrett Andrew appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re getting into the hot topic of faith, politics, and the intersection of both in this episode! There has always been an intricate relationship between politics and faith. We discuss how our upbringing shaped some of our views on patriotism, activism, and the current political landscape, especially in relation to Christian nationalism. We also talk about how faith and activism go hand in hand and the challenges of reconciling our faith with activism. The conversation wouldn’t be complete without getting into how the legacy of Jesus is a source of inspiration for social justice work.

Takeaways

Politics and faith are deeply intertwined in personal experiences.
The church’s engagement with politics has evolved over time.
Christian nationalism has influenced many church communities.
Activism can reignite a sense of spirituality and purpose.
The tension between faith and politics is a common struggle.
Historical context is vital in understanding current political dynamics.
The legacy of Jesus can inspire social justice efforts.
Navigating moral implications of political actions is crucial.
Community support is essential for those exploring faith and activism.
Understanding the complexities of faith can lead to deeper connections with activism.

Chapters

(05:34) Personal Experiences with Church and Politics

(10:38) The Shift from Faith to Activism

(15:46) Navigating the Tension Between Faith and Politics

(20:23) The Legacy of Jesus and Activism

Resources:

Be part of the workshop, The Politics of Jesus by joining the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re joined this week by Brian’s longtime friend, inspirational artist, and glitter enthusiast, Jamie Kushner Blicher. Jamie started creating mixed-media pieces in high school and continued to do so throughout her college years at New York City’s Fashion Institute of Technology. She creates abstract pieces by filling the same tool that brings many families hope and rainbow babies with ink (sterile IVF needles). Since 2016, Jamie has been using her art to help bring calm and happiness to others who have gone through, or are still going through, their infertility journeys. In this conversation, Jamie shares her journey through infertility and how it led her to create art as a form of therapy. She discusses the importance of community, the power of creativity, and how her experiences have shaped her artistic process. Jamie emphasizes the significance of sharing stories and supporting one another through difficult times.

Takeaways

Art can serve as a powerful form of therapy.
Creativity allows for personal expression and healing.
Community support is essential during challenging times.
Sharing stories can foster connection and understanding.
Different experiences should be embraced, not stigmatized.
Finding joy in small things can help navigate tough situations.
Art can be a medium for honoring difficult journeys.
It’s important to let those facing challenges lead the conversation.
Creating art can be a meditative and freeing process.
The future of art can focus on specific communities and needs.

Chapters

(00:35) Who is Jamie Kushner Blicher?

(06:15) Art as Therapy: The IVF Journey

(09:40) The Power of Art and Community

(11:10) Navigating Parenthood and Art, and Channeling Stories Through Art

(14:40) Spirituality and Community Support

(20:45) The Artistic Process

(23:13) Sharing Art and Personal Stories

(27:40) Future Aspirations for Glitter Enthusiast

(32:22) Messages for Those Facing Fertility Challenges

(36:24) Connecting with Jamie and Closing Thoughts

Resources:

Website: https://glitterenthusiast.com/
IG – @glitterenthusiast
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

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This week, we’re catching up on our personal lives and discussing some pretty significant milestones we’ve achieved. We also talk about our mental health journeys, and the importance of finding joy amidst the chaos of the world. Which can be really, really hard right now – we know! We’ve got an update on our upcoming book releases (exciting!) and how much we appreciate our community (ya’ll are so beautiful it makes us cry) and share some books and resources that are giving us inspiration and joy now.

Takeaways

It’s important to find joy in our lives despite external chaos.
Mental health is a journey that requires intentional care.
Writing can be both a deeply personal and collaborative process.
Polyamory offers insights that can enrich spirituality and relationships.
Books can serve as a bridge for understanding complex topics.
Community engagement is vital for supporting queer art and literature.
The process of writing a book can evoke a range of emotions.
Devotionals can be grounded in progressive theology and justice.
Curiosity can transform our understanding of others.
Sharing personal stories can create deeper connections in community.

Chapters

(04:03) Finding Joy Amidst Chaos

(06:47) The Journey of Writing: Books and Mental Health

(12:13) Exploring Polyamory: Insights and Spirituality

(15:43) The Process of Writing Together

(17:53) Upcoming Releases: Books and Plays

(22:40) Engaging with the Community: Mailing Lists and Support

(25:39) Media Consumption: What We’re Reading and Watching

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

PODCAST EPISODE

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We’re joined this week by R Scott Okamoto who is a writer and musician from Los Angeles. He is passionate about AAPI identity and politics, fly fishing, sex and sexuality, cooking, and religious deconstruction. Scott is the creator and host of the Chapel Probation Podcast and the author of Asian American Apostate: Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University. In this conversation, Scott shares his transformative journey from a conservative evangelical upbringing to becoming an advocate for LGBTQIA students at Azusa Pacific University. He discusses the challenges of deconstructing his faith, the importance of community support, and the impact of evangelical culture on identity. Scott emphasizes the need for critical thinking and openness in navigating personal beliefs and experiences. He discusses his journey of deconstruction from evangelicalism, the importance of community and storytelling, and the challenges of addressing systemic issues like racism within Christianity. He emphasizes the need for ongoing personal growth and the role of music and creative expression in finding joy and connection after leaving religious spaces.

Takeaways

Scott grew up in a conservative evangelical environment.
His journey of deconstruction began after meeting LGBTQIA individuals.
He became an advocate for LGBTQIA students at APU.
Community support was crucial for students facing rejection.
Evangelical culture often perpetuates harmful ideologies.
Deconstruction is a complex and personal process.
Critical thinking is often discouraged in evangelical settings.
Sharing personal stories can foster understanding and empathy.
Navigating faith and identity can be challenging for many.
It’s important to embrace knowledge and openness in personal growth. Once you start moving, it’s hard to stop.
Finding community is essential for continued growth.
Deconstruction is not just a personal journey but a communal one.
Storytelling can be a powerful tool for healing and connection.
Christianity has a significant racism problem that needs addressing.
Building relationships with diverse communities is crucial.
It’s important to engage in uncomfortable conversations.
Music can be a source of joy and connection after deconstruction.
Creative projects can help explore complex topics like sexuality.
Acknowledging suffering in others can lead to deeper understanding and empathy.

Chapters

(03:56) Journey of Deconstruction at APU

(07:22) Community and Support for LGBTQIA Students

(13:21) The Impact of Evangelical Culture on Identity

(16:01) Navigating Deconstruction and Its Challenges

(21:10) Encouraging Critical Thinking and Openness

(28:12) Final Thoughts and Reflections

(29:04) Navigating Deconstruction and Personal Growth

(31:10) The Challenge of Moving Beyond Evangelicalism

(33:27) Finding Community in Deconstruction

(37:44) The Power of Storytelling and Connection

(42:35) Addressing Racism in Christianity

(47:51) Future Projects and Creative Endeavors

Resources:

Asian American Apostate: Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University by R Scott Okamoto
Chapel Probation Podcast
Learn more about Scott at https://www.rscottokamoto.com/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

The post It Comes Back to Community: An Interview with R. Scott Okamoto appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we delve into the complexities of sex positivity within a spiritual context. We explore the damaging messages received from religious institutions regarding sexuality, the impact of purity culture, and the ongoing journey of self-discovery and healing. Our conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding one’s own desires, navigating shame, and fostering a community that embraces sex positivity. We also get into practical steps for healing and the significance of embodying a positive relationship with one’s body and sexuality.

Takeaways

The conversation highlights the absurd messages about sex from religious backgrounds.
Purity culture can create lasting shame and confusion around sexuality.
It’s essential to differentiate between healthy attraction and harmful lust.
Healing from sexual shame is an ongoing process that requires self-reflection.
Community support is vital in navigating sexual and spiritual journeys.
Understanding one’s own values around sex is crucial for personal growth.
Sex positivity can coexist with spirituality in a healthy way.
The impact of societal norms on individual sexual expression is profound.
Engaging in open conversations about sex can help dismantle shame.
Embodying a positive relationship with one’s body is essential for overall well-being.

Chapters

(02:31) Exploring Church Messages on Sex

(06:31) The Impact of Purity Culture

(10:21) Navigating Shame and Sexuality

(14:35) Understanding Lust and Attraction

(18:30) Positive Experiences and Community

(22:36) The Ongoing Journey of Self-Discovery

(26:36) Practical Steps for Healing and Growth

(30:26) Becoming a Beacon of Sex Positivity

(34:42) The Interconnection of Body and Sexuality

Resources:

Join the workshop: Sex-Positive Sexuality
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re going back to the Gospel of Paul and exploring Colossians 3:1-17 through a queer lens, discussing the implications of Paul’s teachings on identity, sexuality, and community. It is so important to understand the context of Paul’s letters and how they can be applied to contemporary issues of queer identity and spirituality. There is such a need for compassion, kindness, and the recognition of individual identities within the framework of faith, ultimately calling for a more inclusive and loving community.

Takeaways

The passage from Colossians has been used against queer individuals.
Understanding the context of Paul’s letters is crucial for interpretation.
Queer identities are integral to our understanding of spirituality.
We must not let homophobic interpretations dictate our faith.
Paul’s teachings call for a higher standard of behavior in community.
Our identities matter to God and should be celebrated.
Living out our values in relationships is essential for healing.
Compassion and kindness are vital in our interactions with others.
We are invited to build a new world that respects dignity and love.
The journey of faith includes recognizing and valuing our unique experiences.

Chapters

(00:00) Exploring Colossians 3: A Queer Perspective

(02:39) Understanding Paul’s Intentions

(05:00) The Intersection of Identity and Faith

(12:17) Queerness and the Divine

(17:14) Living Out Our Values in Relationships

(25:24) A Benediction for New Beginnings

Resources:

Join the workshop: Sex-Positive Sexuality
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Taking The Sting Out Of Paul (Colossians 3:1-17) appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re back to explore the intricate relationship between spirituality and sexuality! We share our personal journeys, societal challenges, and the importance of integrating these aspects of identity to reframe how to view sexuality. We also delve into the complexities of desire, agency, and the political implications of sexual oppression. Shame and desire intertwine within theological contexts, which makes it all the more important to integrate one’s faith with their sexual identity and experiences. There is an unmistakable sacredness to sexuality and it can lead to transcendent experiences.

Takeaways

Sexuality and spirituality can be integrated for deeper insights.
The journey of understanding one’s sexuality is often fraught with challenges.
Desire is often suppressed by societal and religious narratives.
Governments target sexual minorities to maintain control.
Personal sexual healing is a form of political resistance.
Communication about desires is crucial in relationships.
Vulnerability is necessary for authentic connections.
Queer joy and pleasure are vital, even in difficult times.
The work on self can enhance community organizing efforts.
Celebrating sexual autonomy is both personal and communal.
The work of unhooking from shame is often theological.
Desire and shame are deeply intertwined with spirituality.
Our beliefs about bodies and sexuality shape our ethics.
Integration of theology and ethics is crucial for a fulfilling life.
Sexuality can be a pathway to experiencing the divine.
The Bible contains rich sexual language that reflects divine relationships.
Transcendence can be found in intimate connections with others.
Experiences of sexuality can be sacred and holy.
First sexual experiences can be meaningful in various ways.
Gratitude for past experiences can lead to healing.

Chapters

(02:49) The Journey of Integrating Sexuality and Spirituality

(06:00) Desire, Agency, and Control

(08:52) Political Implications of Sexuality

(11:55) Communication and Vulnerability in Relationships

(15:11) The Intersection of Queerness and Spirituality

(17:00) The Intersection of Sex, Shame, and Spirituality

(19:52) Theological Contexts and Personal Experiences

(25:47) Sexuality as a Path to Transcendence

(30:04) Closing Reflections and Prayer

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

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We’re happy to welcome return guest Kaya Oakes back to the podcast for this episode to talk about her new book, “Not So Sorry: Abusers, False Apologies, and the Limits of Forgiveness.” Kaya Oakes is a journalist and author of six books. Her essays and journalism have appeared in many publications. She is also a faculty member in the College Writing Programs at UC Berkeley, where she teaches creative nonfiction, composition, and research writing. In this conversation, Kaya Oakes discusses her multifaceted identity as a teacher, writer, and cancer survivor, while exploring themes of forgiveness, the writing process, and the complexities of social justice. She delves into the nuances of apologies, the importance of empathy, and the often weaponized nature of forgiveness in queer and trans communities. Kaya also shares insights from her new book, emphasizing the need for specificity in apologies and the interconnectedness of forgiveness, repentance, and reparations.

Takeaways

Kaya Oakes identifies as a teacher and writer with a focus on gender and health.
Her writing is often driven by personal obsessions and societal issues.
The writing process for Kaya is spontaneous and research-driven, often starting with a question.
Research is woven into the writing process, helping to answer complex questions.
Forgiveness can be weaponized, especially in queer and trans communities.
A good apology requires specificity and acknowledgment of harm done.
Empathy is crucial for genuine forgiveness and understanding.
Theological insights reveal that forgiveness is often oversimplified in Christian contexts.
Forgiveness, repentance, and reparations are interconnected but often misunderstood.
Finding joy in small things, like pets, can be a source of comfort.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background of Kaya Oakes

03:00 Writing Process and Creative Obsessions

05:59 Research and Writing Balance

08:56 Exploring the Theme of Forgiveness

11:58 The Complexity of Forgiveness in Queer and Trans Communities

15:05 Understanding Apologies and Their Impact

17:56 The Role of Empathy in Forgiveness

20:54 Theological Insights on Forgiveness

23:56 Untangling Forgiveness, Repentance, and Reparations

26:54 The Importance of Specificity in Apologies

29:57 Finding Joy in Everyday Life

Resources:

Previous episodes with Kaya Oakes:
- The Nones Are All Right: an Interview with Kaya Oakes
- The Defiant Middle with Kaya Oakes
Interview episode with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg: Growing Up Suburban Jewish and Finding Your Faith
Not So Sorry: Abusers, False Apologies, and the Limits of Forgiveness by Kaya Oakes
Learn more about Kaya at https://www.oakestown.org/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

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We are joined by author Lucas Wilson for this podcast episode to talk about his journey from being a former evangelical to a queer academic. Dr. Lucas Wilson is a SSHRC Postdoctoral Fellow at University of Toronto Mississauga, formerly the Justice, Equity, and Transformation Postdoctoral Fellow at University of Calgary. He is the editor of Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy. He is currently working on two interrelated monograph projects that examine evangelical homophobia and transphobia in the U.S. discussing the intertwining of his faith and queer identity. In this conversation, he delves into the history and reality of conversion therapy, emphasizing the ongoing struggles faced by survivors. Lucas also reflects on the motivation behind his book, contrasting his academic work with personal narratives, and highlights common themes such as shame and secrecy in the stories of conversion therapy survivors. Our discussion aims to raise awareness about the continued existence of conversion therapy practices, despite legal prohibitions. Lucas also highlights the importance of sharing queer stories and finding hope beyond the struggles faced in high-control religious environments.

Takeaways

Luke identifies as an ex-vangelical and conversion therapy survivor.
His academic work focuses on queer history and the New Christian Right.
Conversion therapy is often misunderstood as only occurring in specific settings.
The term ‘conversion practices’ encompasses a broader range of experiences.
Many queer individuals have undergone some form of conversion practices.
Shame is a central theme in the experiences of conversion therapy survivors.
Secrecy and silence are prevalent in the narratives of those affected.
Luke’s book aims to shed light on the ongoing reality of conversion therapy.
The collection includes diverse stories from various queer identities.
Despite legal bans, conversion therapy practices continue to exist underground. Conversion therapy is a complex issue with many personal stories.
Shame can persist even after leaving high-control religious groups.
Academia can provide a space for critical thinking and self-discovery.
Understanding Christian theology is essential to grasping US politics.
The influence of evangelicalism on contemporary issues is significant.
Stories of conversion therapy survivors often highlight resilience and hope.
Not all stories have neat, happy endings; discomfort is part of the journey.
Community support is crucial for those recovering from conversion therapy.
Future projects aim to amplify queer voices and experiences.
Personal joy can be found in simple pleasures, like enjoying grapes.

Chapters

(02:27) Faith and Queer Identity Intertwined

(08:42) Understanding Conversion Therapy

(12:51) The Motivation Behind the Book

(15:30) Contrasting Academic and Personal Narratives

(17:49) Common Themes in Conversion Therapy Stories

(22:08) The Ongoing Reality of Conversion Therapy

(23:07) The Impact of Conversion Therapy

(25:37) Shame and Self-Reflection

(26:07) Academic Awakening and Relearning

(30:20) The Role of Christian Theology in History

(31:52) Understanding Evangelical Influence on Politics

(38:41) Finding Hope Beyond Conversion Therapy

(43:27) Future Projects and Community Engagement

Resources:

Follow Lucas on social media:
- IG: @lukeslamdunkwilson
- Threads: @lukeslamdunkwilson
- X/Twitter: @wilson_fw
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucas-wilson-2a0753b1/
- TikTok: @lukeslamdunkwilson
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/luke.wilson.96
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re excited to have return guest, John Dominic Crossan, on the pod this week to talk about his new book, “Paul the Pharisee: A Vision Beyond the Violence of Civilization.” We discuss the importance of matrix as a tool for understanding the context and background of texts and why that is so important when we look at Paul. Crossan emphasizes the role of metaphor in shaping our lives and how dismissing metaphor as less than literal impacts our theology. He explores the differences between ascension and resurrection and why they matter. He talks about how his book explores this distinction between ascension and resurrection, emphasizing the importance of focusing on the community of the human race rather than privileged individuals.

Takeaways

Understanding the context and background of texts is crucial for interpreting and applying ancient documents to new situations.
Paul’s significance and importance can be better understood by placing him in the historical and cultural context of the Roman Empire.
Metaphor plays a powerful role in shaping our lives and creating reality. It is important to be aware of the metaphors we live by and their implications.
Ascension and resurrection are two different concepts. Ascension is about special privilege for an individual, while resurrection is about the liberation of the human race from death.
The Easter images in Western and Eastern Christian traditions depict different understandings of resurrection, with the Eastern tradition emphasizing the liberation of the human race. The focus should be on the community of the human race rather than privileged individuals.
The evangelical conception of salvation should shift towards caring for the world and recognizing the role of evolution in running the world.
Paul’s belief in resurrection shaped the behavior and community of early Christians.
Reading Paul in the context of Roman imperial theology and studying Virgil’s Aeneid can provide a better understanding of the New Testament.
Paul’s vision of cosmic justice and the implications of evolution are relevant for our world today.

Chapters

(04:03) Reevaluating Paul: Importance and Significance

(11:14) The Power of Metaphor in Shaping Reality

(14:37) Ascension vs. Resurrection: Different Concepts

(24:28) Easter Images: Western and Eastern Perspectives

(29:18) Focusing on the Community of the Human Race

(30:28) Challenging the Evangelical Conception of Salvation

(31:31) Recognizing the Role of Evolution in Running the World

(33:47) Taking Responsibility for the World

(35:12) Paul’s Vision of Resurrection and Cosmic Justice

(44:52) Understanding Paul in the Context of Roman Imperial Theology

(52:39) The Relevance of Paul’s Vision of Cosmic Justice and Evolution

Resources:

Paul the Pharisee: A Vision Beyond the Violence of Civilization by John Dominic Crossan
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Taking Another Look at Paul: An Interview with John Dominic Crossan appeared first on Queer Theology.

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A while back, we sat down with the hosts of the podcast, Judaism Unbound. So for this episode, we’re sharing that interview with y’all! In this interview, we talk about how to queer theology, share some of our favorite bible stories and discuss how to do this work well. We also touch on how other theologies, religions, and faith practices can enrich and impact our lives in a deeply meaningful way.

Resources:

Learn more and join the course https://www.judaismunbound.com/2025-courses/p/queering-theology
Listen to the Judaism Unbound podcast.
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Brian interviews Marques Hollie for this episode of the podcast. Marques Hollie (they/he), is an operatically-trained vocalist, ritual leader, and theatre-maker, who has been telling and singing stories for as long he can remember. Following a course of study in homiletics, liturgy, Torah exegesis, and the canon of Jewish stories, Marques received ordination as a Maggid (sacred storyteller). Currently, he is a student at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College. Marques shares his journey as a queer clergy person who intertwines storytelling with spirituality. They discuss their experiences of coming out, exploration of faith, and how these elements have shaped their identity. We delve into the power of personal narratives, the significance of storytelling in understanding sacred texts, and the broader implications of these stories in personal transformation and community connection.

Takeaways

Marques identifies as a queer clergy person who merges storytelling and music.
The journey of queerness and faith is deeply intertwined for Marques.
Storytelling can reveal deeper meanings in sacred texts.
Personal narratives allow individuals to see themselves in larger stories.
Queer sacred storytelling offers unique perspectives on tradition.
The process of conversion to Judaism can be lengthy and reflective.
Storytelling is a powerful tool for personal transformation.
Everyone lives within their own stories, regardless of profession.
Understanding the agendas behind texts can reshape our interpretations.
Connection to sacred texts can be found through personal experiences. Midrash offers a possibility for diverse interpretations.
Storytelling is a powerful tool for connection and education.
Claiming one’s identity can transform personal and professional paths.
The journey to becoming a rabbi can be unexpected and profound.
Interfaith relationships challenge traditional boundaries in Judaism.
Jewish leadership is evolving to be more inclusive.
Creative energy thrives in liminal spaces of transition.
Engaging with art and literature can deepen spiritual understanding.
The importance of community in navigating personal journeys.
Finding joy in simple pleasures can be a source of strength.

Chapters

(02:58) The Journey of Queerness and Faith

(05:57) Exploring the Intersection of Storytelling and Spirituality

(09:03) The Power of Personal Narratives

(11:58) Queer Sacred Storytelling and Its Impact

(15:02) Finding Connection in Sacred Texts

(18:01) The Role of Storytelling in Personal Transformation

(20:54) The Broader Implications of Storytelling

(23:58) Conclusion and Reflections on Storytelling

(31:03) Exploring Midrash and Queer Perspectives

(32:40) The Art of Storytelling in Jewish Tradition

(35:14) The Journey to Rabbinical Identity

(39:58) Navigating Interfaith Relationships and Rabbinical School

(45:05) The Evolution of Jewish Leadership

(49:45) Finding Joy in Liminal Spaces and Creative Energy

Resources:

Learn more about Marques Hollie at https://www.marqueshollie.com/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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In this conversation, we speak with author, Eliot Schrefer, about his journey as a writer. We discuss his identity, influences, and the importance of queer representation in literature. He delves into his latest book, ‘The Brightness Between Us,’ and reflects on the creative process of adapting stories for film. Eliot emphasizes the significance of storytelling in providing hope and connection for LGBTQ+ youth, while also expressing his determination to keep producing this much needed content in the face of pushback from groups that want to ban books.

Takeaways

Eliot’s journey to writing was influenced by his mother’s struggles as a writer.
He discovered his passion for writing later in life after realizing it was his true calling.
Young adult literature often lacked representation of LGBTQ+ experiences during Eliot’s youth.
Eliot’s latest book explores themes of love and identity in a sci-fi setting.
The creative process involves drawing inspiration from various sources while creating something original.
Queer representation in literature is crucial for the mental health of LGBTQ+ youth.
Eliot’s work has been positively received, with a growing demand for LGBTQ+ narratives.
The adaptation of his book into a film is an exciting opportunity for broader reach.
Eliot believes in the power of stories to provide hope and connection.
He continues to be inspired by the need for inclusive narratives in today’s world.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction to Eliot and His Journey

(02:57) Eliot’s Path to Becoming a Writer

(06:01) Influences and Inspirations in Young Adult Literature

(09:05) Exploring Eliot’s Latest Book: The Darkness Outside

(12:05) The Creative Process: From Inspiration to Storytelling

(14:53) The Importance of Queer Representation in Literature

(17:48) Adapting Books for Film: The Journey Ahead

(20:46) Finding Joy and Inspiration in Writing

(24:05) Closing Thoughts and Future Connections

Resources:

Preorder The Brightness Between Us by Eliot Schrefer
Learn more about Eliot Schrefer at https://www.eliotschrefer.com/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re joined by Ann Russo, a queer therapist, who shares her journey of growing up in a queer household and navigating the complexities of identity, religion, and acceptance. She discusses the challenges faced by LGBTQ individuals in religious spaces, the importance of support systems, and the impact of religious trauma. Ann emphasizes the need for therapists to be transparent and knowledgeable about LGBTQ issues and offers insights into finding the right therapist. Our conversation highlights stories of transformation and the significance of intergenerational relationships within the queer community.

Takeaways

Ann Russo identifies as a queer therapist passionate about the intersection of identity, trauma, and spirituality.
Growing up in a queer household in the 80s was challenging due to societal prejudice and fear of violence.
Ann initially resisted her queerness, wanting to ‘pray the gay away’ until she embraced her identity in high school.
Religion was not a positive force in Ann’s upbringing, leading to curiosity about its teachings later in life.
Ann immersed herself in conservative Christian spaces to understand the messaging against LGBTQ individuals.
The transition from fear to acceptance involved social justice activism and creating safe spaces for LGBTQ youth.
Religious trauma can create barriers for LGBTQ individuals seeking acceptance in progressive religious spaces.
Support systems, including chosen family and older queer mentors, are crucial for healing and acceptance.
Finding a therapist who understands the intersection of queerness and religion is essential for LGBTQ individuals.
Transformation stories highlight the resilience of LGBTQ individuals and the importance of community support.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction to Queer Identity and Therapy

(03:02) Growing Up in a Queer Household

(05:47) The Intersection of Religion and Queerness

(09:01) Navigating Religious Spaces as a Queer Person

(12:00) Transitioning from Fear to Acceptance

(15:03) Understanding Religious Trauma

(17:54) The Importance of Support Systems

(21:13) Finding a Therapist for LGBTQ Issues

(23:56) Stories of Transformation

(27:10) The Role of Intergenerational Relationships

(30:06) Closing Thoughts and Resources

Resources:

Learn more about Ann Russo’s work at https://www.annrusso.org/
Accessible therapy at https://www.amrtherapy.com/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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In this interview, author, advocate, and therapist Chris Tompkins shares his personal journey of self-discovery as a gay man raised in a religious environment. He discusses the challenges of reconciling his identity with his faith, the impact of religious trauma, and the importance of awareness in parenting to support LGBTQ+ children. Chris talks about why he wrote his book, “Raising LGBTQ Allies,” and emphasizes the need for open conversations and practical strategies for parents to create a supportive environment for their kids, ultimately leading to a more inclusive society.

Takeaways

Chris was raised in a religious family with conflicting beliefs.
He experienced religious trauma and internalized homophobia.
His coming out journey was deeply intertwined with love and acceptance.
Chris emphasizes the importance of awareness in parenting.
Parents can inadvertently perpetuate fear-based associations.
Books and open conversations can help educate children.
Creating safe spaces for discussions is crucial.
Understanding societal messages is key to supporting LGBTQ+ kids.
Chris’s book aims to help parents change harmful narratives.
Healing from religious trauma is a journey that requires introspection.

Chapters

(02:40) Chris’s Journey of Self-Discovery

(10:13) Reconnecting with Faith and Spirituality

(16:32) Understanding Religious Trauma

(22:30) The Importance of Awareness in Parenting

(27:54) Supporting LGBTQ+ Kids: Practical Strategies

(35:00) Conclusion and Resources

Resources:

Learn more at https://www.aroadtriptolove.com/
Raising LGBTQ Allies: A Parent’s Guide to Changing the Messages from the Playground by Chris Tompkins
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

The post The Importance of Visibility An Interview with Chris Tompkins appeared first on Queer Theology.

Raising LGBTQ Allies: A Parent's Guide to Changing the Messages from the Playground

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We’re kicking off our winter guest series with an interview with Jeff Hiller, a hilarious actor and comedian in NYC, best known for his role as Joel in the Peabody Award-winning HBO show ‘Somebody Somewhere.’ If you haven’t watched this show yet, be sure to check it out! In this conversation, Jeff Hiller discusses his role in the show, exploring themes of authenticity, community, and the intersection of queerness and faith. Jeff reflects on his character Joel, who navigates life in a small town while fostering connections and grappling with personal ethics. We talk about the evolution of queer representation in media and the importance of finding joy in everyday moments.

Takeaways

‘Somebody Somewhere’ is about authenticity and real life.
Joel’s character reflects the complexities of queerness in small towns.
Faith in the show is portrayed as a source of community, not oppression.
The journey of faith for Joel is more about ethics than belief.
Jeff’s personal experiences shaped his understanding of community and queerness.
The representation of queer characters has evolved significantly in media.
There is a need for more diverse queer representation on screen.
Joy can be found in simple, everyday moments.
The show challenges traditional portrayals of faith and queerness.
Community and kindness are central themes in both the show and Jeff’s life.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction to Jeff Hiller and Somebody Somewhere

(02:49) Exploring Joel’s Character and Authenticity

(06:03) Faith, Community, and Queerness in Small Towns

(09:03) The Journey of Faith and Ethics

(11:59) Personal Experiences with Queerness and Community

(15:03) The Evolution of Queer Representation on Screen

(18:03) Joy in Everyday Life and Closing Thoughts

Resources:

Follow Jeff on IG @boomboomhiller
Watch Season 3 of Somebody Somewhere on HBO
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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As we head into the Christmas season, we invite y’all to really explore the meaning and significance of Advent. There is so much richness and depth to this tradition and (especially now!) it is a moment to reflect on what our role in this world is. We discuss the themes of waiting, anticipation, and introspection that characterize this season, as well as the importance of recognizing the realities of the world and dreaming of a better future. There is so much potential for personal and communal transformation during Advent.

Takeaways

Advent is a time of preparation leading up to Christmas.
It involves themes of waiting, anticipation, and introspection.
Advent invites us to reflect on what is not working in the world.
The season encourages dreaming about justice and peace.
Rituals during Advent help make visible what is not yet tangible.
Advent is a liminal space for personal and communal transformation.
The end of the year is a time for intention setting and reflection.
Queering Advent allows for a deeper connection to spirituality.
The journey through Advent can be inclusive for all backgrounds.
Community engagement during Advent enhances the experience.

Chapters

(00:00) The Significance of Advent

(10:12) Advent as a Time for Reflection and Introspection

(18:11) Queering the Advent Experience

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community and be part of our Queering Advent event
Soul Safe and Rewrite Your Story are both on-demand workshops available in Spiritual Study Hall

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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It’s that time of year when we often see family and need to navigate complex family dynamics. During the holiday season, this is particularly true for queer individuals. We talk about the importance of setting boundaries, and the necessity of prioritizing personal comfort over traditional expectations. We’re big proponents of self-care! And that can definitely look like setting clear boundaries that make you feel safe and happy during a time that can be fraught with anxiety and discomfort.

Takeaways

The holiday season can evoke feelings of angst and anxiety for many individuals, especially around family dynamics.
Setting firm boundaries can help mitigate holiday-related stress.
Even after coming out, feelings of discomfort around family can persist.
Juggling multiple family traditions can increase holiday stress.
It’s important to prioritize personal comfort over traditional expectations during the holidays.
Choosing to spend the holidays in a way that feels good is not selfish.
Self-care and introspection are crucial during the holiday season.
It’s okay to not participate in family traditions that feel uncomfortable.
Small changes can lead to a more positive holiday experience.
The process of navigating family dynamics is ongoing and requires experimentation.

Chapters

(00:00) Navigating Family Dynamics During the Holidays

(05:59) The Impact of Identity on Family Interactions

(11:01) Choosing Personal Comfort Over Tradition

(14:52) Self-Care and Reflection During the Holiday Season

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community and be part of our Queering Advent event
Soul Safe and Rewrite Your Story are both on-demand workshops available in Spiritual Study Hall

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post How To Handle Fraught Situations appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re queering the Book of Ruth in this episode of the Queer Theology Podcast. And y’all, this one can get really scandalous! We delve into its themes of agency, chosen family, and the complexities of tradition. Then we also discuss how the narrative can be interpreted through a queer lens, highlighting the scandalous elements often sanitized in traditional readings. Sometimes you gotta engage with scripture in a way that acknowledges the messiness and complexities to really get to the good stuff! As we head into Advent, this can be a time of deep reflection and looking at scripture through a queer lens can be a liberating practice.

Takeaways

The Book of Ruth contains themes of agency and vulnerability.
Ruth’s actions can be seen as scandalous yet empowering.
Chosen family is a significant aspect of the narrative.
The story challenges traditional interpretations of relationships.
Sanitizing scripture does a disservice to its complexity.
Queer readings of scripture can reveal deeper meanings.
Tradition is often rooted in messy and complicated stories.
Engaging with scripture requires acknowledging its messiness.
Community journeys can enhance spiritual reflection.
Advent offers a time for introspection and preparation.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction and Context of the Conversation

(01:12) Exploring the Book of Ruth

(03:30) Queering the Text: Scandal and Agency

(06:56) Chosen Family and Queer Relationships

(11:51) The Messiness of Tradition and Scripture

(15:35) Invitation to Engage with Scripture

(16:42) Queering Advent: A Community Journey

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community and be part of our Queering Advent event

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

TRANSCRIPT

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a brief reflection from Brian on fear, grief, and tapping into the power of our communities.

if you’d like a space to share / vent / grieve / process / be in community / otherwise be together with other LGBTQ+ of faith, I opened up comments on this reflection over in the public area of our learning and community hub. you’ll just need a free account to comment.

please come gather together to see and be seen, to hold and be held.

we are in this together.

much love,
brian (& shannon)

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It’s that time of year again when we have celebrations around remembrance and death. In this episode, we delve into the themes of death, remembrance, and the significance of rituals during this reflective time of year. We explore the meanings behind All Saints Day and All Souls Day, the importance of honoring those who have passed, and how queer communities have created their own rituals of remembrance. We share some of our own personal experiences of grief and loss and how rituals have been a resource of comfort for us. As we head into the upcoming Advent season, we’re going to really dive into the intention behind rituals!

Takeaways

Death and remembrance are significant themes during this time of year.
All Saints Day honors officially canonized saints, while All Souls Day remembers all who have died.
The veil between worlds is considered thin during this season, prompting reflection.
Trans Day of Remembrance highlights violence against the trans community.
Queer and trans individuals often create their own rituals to honor their community.
Remembering our lineages and communities is essential for personal growth.
Grief can be navigated through intentional remembrance and community support.
Rituals do not have to be complicated; simple acts can hold great meaning.
Advent offers a time for reflection and intention in our lives.
Creating personal rituals can help in processing grief and loss.

Chapters

(00:00) Exploring Death and Remembrance

(04:42) Queering All Saints and All Souls Day

(07:53) The Importance of Lineage and Community

(10:52) Navigating Grief and Loss

(14:55) Rituals for Remembering and Healing

(18:41) Advent: A Time for Intention and Reflection

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community and be part of our Queering Advent event

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

TRANSCRIPT

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The process of healing is a journey. And with a journey, you have to be willing to take the time to do what feels comfortable for you, but also push yourself. In this episode, we discuss the journey of healing, particularly in the context of coping with emotional challenges. We explore the importance of taking things slowly, the role of storytelling in healing, and the necessity of reflection after experiences. You gotta make the time for reflection and self-care! For us, journaling has been a sustainable practice to work through discomfort that helps lead to long-term emotional well-being.

Takeaways

Healing is a journey, not a race.
It’s important to go slowly in the healing process.
Stories shape our understanding of spiritual practices.
Redefining success can help in the healing journey.
Discomfort can be a part of growth.
Reflection helps us learn from our experiences.
Give yourself time to process and heal.
You can push yourself, but know your limits.
Journaling can provide clarity and understanding.
Sustainable practices are key for long-term healing.

Chapters

(0:00) The Journey of Healing and Coping

(7:15) Navigating Discomfort and Growth

(14:56) Reflection and Learning from Experiences

(22:42) Sustainable Practices for Long-Term Healing

Resources:

Register for the journaling workshop, Rewrite Your Story
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Healing When It’s Hard appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this conversation, we explore the profound impact of storytelling on personal identity, community building, and cultural narratives. We discuss how stories have been a fundamental part of human experience, shaping self-perception and fostering connections and community among individuals. It’s super important to craft your own personal narrative because of the transformative power of sharing those stories with others. Whether it’s a coffee chat with friends or delivering a sermon, having a well crafted story can make a huge difference.

Takeaways

Stories are deeply human and have been told since ancient times.
The narratives we internalize shape our self-perception and values.
Storytelling can change hearts and minds more effectively than facts alone.
Personal stories can foster community and connection, especially in marginalized groups.
Crafting narratives is essential for effective communication and social justice advocacy.
Everyone has a story, and storytelling is a universal human experience.
The act of storytelling helps us make sense of our lives and experiences.
Writing for oneself is a vital step before sharing stories publicly.
Workshops can help individuals refine their storytelling skills and discover impactful narratives.
Journaling can serve as a grounding practice for personal reflection and narrative development.

Chapters

(0:00) The Power of Stories in Human Experience

(3:51) Personal Connections Through Storytelling

(9:21) The Role of Storytelling in Community Building

(15:04) Crafting Personal Narratives for Impact

(18:40) Journaling and Storytelling Workshop Introduction

Resources:

Register for the journaling workshop, Rewrite Your Story
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post The Stories That Shape Us appeared first on Queer Theology.

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If you’ve been around for a while, you probably already know how valuable we think having a journaling practice is. Like, we can’t recommend it enough! There is just something about getting your thoughts down on paper without any fear of judgment and really letting it all out. In this episode, we delve into the transformative practice of journaling and discuss our personal journeys with journaling. We can’t emphasize enough its importance for mental health, self-reflection, and clarity! Feeling stuck on where to start a journaling practice? We have an upcoming workshop, Rewrite Your Story, that’ll help to get you started!

Takeaways

Journaling can be a powerful tool for self-reflection and mental health.
It’s okay to journal sporadically; consistency isn’t the only measure of success.
Finding a journaling method that works for you is essential.
Journaling can help clarify what you want in various aspects of life.
It’s important to create a safe space for unfiltered expression in journaling.
Journaling can reveal patterns in your thoughts and behaviors over time.
Starting with small, manageable journaling practices can lead to growth.
You don’t need fancy materials to start journaling; just begin where you are.
Journaling can help process emotions and experiences during tough times.
The act of journaling can aid in rewriting negative narratives about oneself.

Chapters

(00:34) The Importance of Journaling

(12:04) Personal Journeys with Journaling

(24:05) Practical Tips for Effective Journaling

(30:09) Rewriting Your Story Through Journaling

Resources:

Register for the journaling workshop at www.queertheology.com/rewrite
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

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In this episode, we address listener questions about navigating faith, family dynamics, and spirituality outside of traditional Christian frameworks. We discuss the challenges faced by LGBTQ+ individuals in maintaining relationships with non-affirming family members while prioritizing their own mental health and identity. We also get into a question about spirituality and encourage y’all to explore how to cultivate a sense of spirituality and community beyond traditional faith practices.

Takeaways

It’s important to prioritize your own mental health and wellness.
Surround yourself with affirming voices during deconstruction.
Setting boundaries with family can help maintain your mental health.
You deserve to be treated with respect and affirmation.
Finding community outside of traditional religious spaces is crucial.
Engaging in service and community work can fulfill spiritual needs.
Creating personal spiritual practices is essential for connection.
Rituals and actions can help cultivate a sense of the divine.
Community support is vital during times of spiritual transition.
You are not alone in your journey of faith and identity.

Resources:

Ask your own question to be featured on the podcast at queertheology.com/listen
Soul Safe workshop:
Rituals Workshop: queertheology.com/rituals
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re gonna revisit our roots of this podcast for this episode by queering the Bible! Specifically, the passage we explore is from Genesis, the story of Jacob wrestling with God. We discuss the significance of this passage in relation to queer identities, gender narratives, and how you can bring yourself to your own interpretation of scripture. Our conversation highlights the importance of personal experiences in understanding biblical texts and emphasizes the role of journaling as a spiritual practice. We encourage y’all to read this passage and reflect on what this passage brings up for YOU!

Takeaways

The Bible did not originally have chapters and verses.
Jacob’s story illustrates the holiness of wrestling with faith.
Wrestling with God can be seen as a trans narrative.
The Bible can continually surprise and teach us new things.
Personal experiences shape our interpretations of scripture.
Queer theology allows for diverse interpretations of biblical texts.
Journaling can enhance our understanding of the Bible.
Engaging with the Bible requires vulnerability and curiosity.
The intersection of sexuality and spirituality is significant.
Each person’s interpretation of scripture is valid and valuable.

Chapters

(02:58) Wrestling with God: The Story of Jacob

(05:59) Gender Narratives in Jacob’s Story

(09:03) The Bible as a Living Text

(12:04) Sexuality and Spirituality in Non-Monogamy

(15:02) Diverse Interpretations of Scripture

(17:53) The Power of Journaling in Spiritual Practice

Resources:

In the Margins: A Transgender Man’s Journey With Scripture by Shannon TL Kearns
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

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Recently John Green posted a YouTube preview for “Crash Course Religions,” and since this is something we are really passionate about (also Brian is a huge fan!), we answer his question, ‘why religion?’ in this episode. We also discuss what it means to be a religious person and explore the idea that everyone worships something, whether it’s a traditional religion or something else that guides their lives. It’s about what you infuse with meaning that can turn it sacred and holy! We’ve been talking alot about the importance of being intentional in practices and rituals and this is another example of why it is so important. We invite you to also cultivate a deeper sense of connection to the sacred in your life.

Takeaways

Religion is not limited to traditional religious institutions; everyone worships something that guides their lives.
Being intentional about our practices and rituals is important, regardless of our religious identification.
Queer experiences and LGBTQ+ community events can be seen as sacred and have religious significance.
Cultivating a deeper sense of connection to the sacred in our lives can bring meaning and purpose.

Chapters

(0:38) Brian’s confession: Being a “nerdfighter”

(1:14) Crash Course series on religion and its relevance

(3:36) Helping LGBTQ+ folks heal from religious harm

(5:21) The idea of worship and its broader meaning

(9:32) Importance of replacing old beliefs with new intentional stories

(17:00) Queerness as holy and sacred practices in queer culture

(22:03) Encouragement to practice intentional rituals and find meaning

Resources:

Crash Course Religion Preview by John Green
Rituals for Resistance & Resilience online course
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post John Green Asks, “Why Religion?” We Answer appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This time of year is a great time to do a bit of reflection and in this episode, we discuss the importance of taking time in the fall to reevaluate and reconnect with what matters to us. Taking this time for reflection, introspection, and planning for the future can be a great way to really look at what you want to keep and what you want to change moving into the end of the year. We share our personal experiences and discuss the significance of rituals, boundaries, and forgiveness in this process. The most important part of this is being intentional and gentle with yourself while engaging in this self-reflection.

Takeaways

Fall is a time for reflection, introspection, and planning for the future.
Taking time to reevaluate and reconnect with what matters to us is important.
Rituals, boundaries, and forgiveness play a significant role in this process.
Being intentional and gentle with oneself is crucial while engaging in self-reflection.

Chapters

(00:00) Reconnecting and Reflecting in the Fall

(11:27) The Importance of Rituals and Boundaries

(18:10) Navigating Forgiveness and Making Amends

(24:43) Being Intentional and Gentle with Oneself

Resources:

Rituals for Resistance & Resilience
Queers the Word – devotional available on Amazon.com
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Habits For Changing Seasons appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We get into the concept of love and what it means to love well in this episode. We explore the idea that love is not just a feeling or a word, but an action that requires intentionality and commitment. We have to challenge the societal norms of prioritizing romantic relationships and biological families over other types of relationships. It is also so important to show up for others, by being intentional in our actions, and creating systems to support our relationships.

Takeaways

Love is not just a feeling or a word, but an action that requires intentionality and commitment.
Societal norms often prioritize romantic relationships and biological family over other types of relationships, but it is important to challenge and question these norms.
Showing up for others and being intentional in our actions are key aspects of loving well.
Creating systems and using tools like calendars and reminders can support our relationships and help us remember important dates and commitments.
Polyamory wisdom can offer valuable insights and practices for all types of relationships, including monogamous ones.
Clear communication, time management, and intentional living are essential for building and maintaining healthy and loving relationships.

Chapters

(00:35) Exploring the Concept of Love

(03:40) Challenging Societal Norms

(06:06) Being Loved Well and Loved Poorly

(11:10) Love Beyond Traditional Family Structures

(14:28) Prioritizing Relationships and Denigrating Friendships

(18:27) Love as Action and the Importance of Systems

(21:20) Intentionality and Upending Norms

(24:13) The Role of Systems in Loving Well

(26:18) Synergies Between Poly Wisdom, Faith, and Love

(29:37) Being Intentional and Explicit in Relationships

(33:19) Using Tools and Systems to Support Love

(35:27) Polyamory Wisdom for All Relationships

(35:48) Clear Communication, Time Management, and Intentional Living

Resources:

Join the Poly Possibilities course at queertheology.com/poly-possibilities
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTThe post Love is a Verb appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Shame is a huge part of culture and we discuss the role of shame in sex and relationships, particularly in relation to purity culture, and the political repercussions of shame. We explore the historical context of shame, such as the Lavender Scare and the rise of the religious right, and how shame has been used as a tool for control and manipulation. There is such an importance to understanding shame as a systemic and political issue, rather than just a personal emotion. But there is power and resistance in self-acceptance and combating shame by embracing our desires and bodies!

Takeaways

Shame can be a powerful tool for control and manipulation, and it is important to recognize the political and systemic implications of shame.
Understanding the historical context of shame, such as the Lavender Scare and the rise of the religious right, helps to shed light on its origins and effects.
Embracing one’s desires and bodies, and resisting societal shame, can be an act of resistance and self-acceptance.
Creating a supportive community and engaging in open conversations about shame and desires can be healing and empowering.

Chapters

(03:01)The Political Repercussions of Shame

(06:53) Unpacking the History of Shame and Purity Culture

(12:09) Resisting Shame: Embracing Desires and Bodies

(15:04) Creating a Supportive Community to Combat Shame

Resources:

Join the Poly Possibilities course at queertheology.com/poly-possibilities
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Undoing Shame appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this conversation, we discuss the intersection of polyamory, spirituality, and faith. We explore why monogamous individuals should care about polyamory, the importance of integrating spirituality and non-monogamy, and how polyamory can inspire new ways of structuring relationships and the world. We also get into the need for proactive positive messages to counteract shame and negative societal messages and highlight the importance of community, family, and intentional living. What would it look like to expand and imagine more expansive and inclusive possibilities for our relationships AND communities?

Takeaways

Polyamory can offer valuable lessons in communication, intentionality, and dealing with difficult emotions like jealousy, which can benefit monogamous individuals as well.
Integrating spirituality and non-monogamy is important to counteract shame and negative societal messages, and to define the goodness of polyamory on its own terms.
Polyamory invites us to expand our notions of community and family, and to imagine more inclusive and just ways of structuring relationships and the world.
It is important to find spaces where we can bring our whole selves, integrate different aspects of our identities, and cultivate connections with others who share our values.
Polyamory challenges us to question societal expectations and consider alternative ways of living and relating, fostering a sense of intentionality and joy in our lives.

Chapters

(01:26) Why Monogamous Individuals Should Care About Polyamory

(08:52) Integrating Spirituality and Non-Monogamy

(19:00) Expanding Notions of Community and Family

(25:19) Creating Spaces for Wholeness and Integration

(27:39) Imagining New Possibilities for Relationships and the World

Resources:

Jesus is Polyamorous
Join the Poly Possibilities course at queertheology.com/poly-possibilities
Rituals for Resistance & Resilience part of Spiritual Study Hall
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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In this episode, we discuss the importance of listening to the wisdom of our bodies. Really tuning in and paying attention to what your body is trying to tell you. We explore how societal messages of sex negativity and shame can lead to a disconnection from our bodies, and how reclaiming that connection can be a powerful act of resistance. It is so important to recognize the significance of joy and pleasure in our lives to fuel our activism!

Takeaways

Societal messages of sex negativity and shame can lead to a disconnection from our bodies, but it is important to reclaim that connection and listen to the wisdom of our bodies.
Reconnecting with our bodies and embracing pleasure and joy is a powerful act of resistance against societal control and manipulation.
Tuning into our bodies’ signals and sensations can help us set boundaries, navigate difficult relationships, and prioritize self-care.
Joy and pleasure are essential in our lives and in our activism, as they provide the foundation for a positive future and create resilience in the face of challenges.
Joining courses like Poly Possibilities and communities like Sanctuary Collective can provide support and resources for exploring these topics further.

Chapters

(03:58) Poly Possibilities Course: Exploring the Intersections of Polyamory and Spirituality

(08:29) Listening to the Wisdom of Our Bodies: Overcoming Sex Negativity and Shame

(13:12) Tuning into Body Signals: Setting Boundaries and Prioritizing Self-Care

(20:24) The Power of Joy and Pleasure in Activism

(25:39) Joy as a Form of Resistance: Creating a Positive Future

(28:59) Join the Poly Possibilities Course and Sanctuary Collective for Support and Exploration

Resources:

Rituals for Resistance & Resilience part of Spiritual Study Hall
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Listening to the Wisdom of Your Body appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re answering a listener question on the podcast this week: Have you always been so open minded? And if you haven’t, what was it that made you become this way? Not only do we answer this question but we discuss the importance of curiosity and open-mindedness in ALL aspects of life. We share their personal experiences of how we were able to cultivate curiosity and the role it has played in our journeys of self-discovery and growth. One thing that is so important is the need for courage to stay open to new ideas and perspectives, even when it challenges our beliefs. We’ve also got some practical tips on how to cultivate curiosity and how you can work on being more open to the world around you.

Takeaways

Curiosity and open-mindedness are important for personal growth and self-discovery.
Cultivating curiosity requires courage to challenge our beliefs and be open to new ideas and perspectives.
Reading books and engaging with longer-form content are effective ways to explore new topics and expand our knowledge.
Starting with low-stakes topics can help build the muscle of curiosity before diving into more complex issues.
Curiosity grounded in joy and connection is vital in an increasingly complex and interconnected world.

Chapters

(07:34) The Role of Courage in Challenging Beliefs

(13:25) Unhooking from Fear and Indoctrination

(19:45) Practical Tips for Cultivating Curiosity

(27:27) The Importance of the Micro and Connection

(32:26) Curiosity Grounded in Joy and Connection

Resources:

Get curious at queertheology.com/books
Ask your own question at queertheology.com/listen
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTThe post Cultivating Curiosity [Listener Question] appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this conversation, Brian and Shannon discuss the theme of unlearning and relearning. They share personal experiences and insights on the process of unlearning harmful beliefs and embracing new perspectives. They touch on topics such as masculinity, the fear of not being accepted by God, and the concept of abundance in Christianity. The conversation emphasizes the importance of self-reflection and the ongoing journey of unlearning and relearning.

Takeaways

Unlearning involves identifying and challenging harmful beliefs and perspectives that have been ingrained in us.
The process of unlearning and relearning is ongoing and requires self-reflection and intentional effort.
Masculinity and societal expectations can shape our beliefs and understanding of ourselves. It is important to question and redefine these notions.
The fear of not being accepted by God or facing eternal damnation can be a source of anxiety for LGBTQ+ individuals. It is important to explore alternative interpretations of religious teachings.
Abundance in Christianity is not about material excess, but about experiencing joy, love, and liberation in all aspects of life.
Unlearning and relearning involves letting go of guilt, shame, and fear, and embracing a more inclusive and compassionate understanding of faith and spirituality.

Chapters

(10:24) Unlearning and Relearning: Challenging Harmful Beliefs

(13:43) Redefining Masculinity: Breaking Free from Societal Expectations

(15:07) Finding Acceptance: Overcoming Fear and Doubt

(29:24) The Ongoing Journey: Embracing Unlearning and Relearning

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community
Why “Have you Accepted Jesus?” is the Wrong Question
Is It All About Getting Into Heaven?

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

The post Unlearning and Relearning appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Avra Shapiro (they/them) joins us for a fantastic conversation about God this week. Avra is a queer Jewish mystic and freelance Kohenet and discusses their journey to becoming a Kohenet. Avra shares their understanding of God as an ever-flowing source of support and the importance of cultivating a personal relationship with the divine, especially by using different names for God. Avra explains how exploring the power of using different names for God can unlock new perspectives and connections. They emphasize the importance of finding queer teachers and communities that resonate with your own experiences and desires to deepen this connection. Avra encourages listeners to engage in spiritual practices that connect them to something bigger than themselves and bring joy and grounding to their lives.

Takeaways

Cultivating a personal relationship with the divine is crucial and can bring support, grounding, and life-enhancing experiences.
Using different names for God can unlock new perspectives and connections, allowing for a more personal and intimate relationship.
Finding queer teachers and communities that resonate with your experiences and desires is important for spiritual growth and healing.
Engaging in spiritual practices that connect you to something bigger than yourself can bring joy, grounding, and a sense of rootedness.
Exploring the teachings and wisdom of different traditions can help reclaim and make them your own, while also acknowledging and addressing the harms of patriarchy and colonization.

Chapters

(05:10) Avra’s Journey to Becoming a Kohenet

(10:22) Creating Space for the Divine to Come In

(15:16) Understanding God and Using Different Names

(39:33) Finding Queer Teachers and Communities

(44:36) Addressing Harm and Reclaiming Traditions

Resources:

https://www.kohenetavrashapiro.com/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post Holding Space with Avra Shapiro appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’ve known Rev. Jes Kast for a long time now and it was an absolute pleasure to have her on the pod this week talking queer, country, femme ministry! Jes is a minister of word and sacrament in the United Church of Christ and shares her journey of faith and queerness in this conversation. She discusses her upbringing in a conservative Christian environment and her deep connection to her identity as a queer femme. Jes emphasizes the importance of faith in her life and how it has shaped her understanding of herself and her role as a pastor. Jes reflects on her transition from big city femme to rural queer life and the sense of community she has found in her small town. Jes discusses the beauty and challenges of living in central Pennsylvania and the importance of community and care in small town life. She emphasizes the need to recognize the complexities and realities of both small town and big city life, and to avoid idealizing or romanticizing either.

Takeaways

Faith played a significant role in Rev Jes Kast’s upbringing, and she found comfort and strength in her belief in a benevolent God.
Jes’s journey of self-discovery as a queer femme led her to embrace her identity and find joy in expressing herself through fashion and artistry.
As a pastor, Jes values the opportunity to journey with people through important moments in their lives and create meaningful rituals.
Jes’s transition from big city femme to rural queer life has allowed her to reconnect with her small town roots and find a sense of community and safety. Central Pennsylvania is often overlooked and misunderstood, but it has its own unique beauty and interesting people.
Small town life is more communal and caring, with a greater reliance on each other.
Living in a rural community as an out queer clergy comes with its challenges, but also a deep sense of respect and support.
Preaching in a small town requires a different approach, focusing on the realities and concerns of the community.
It’s important to recognize the complexities and realities of both small town and big city life, and to avoid idealizing or romanticizing either.
Visibility and representation are important, especially in rural areas where there may be fewer queer role models.
Finding joy in the presence of sapphic farmers and connecting with the history and spirituality of figures like Hildegard von Bingen.
Creating spaces for reflection and connection, such as an echo monastery, can bring joy and a sense of peace.

Chapters

(03:06) Exploring Identity as a Queer Femme

(06:01) The Role of Faith in Jes’s Upbringing

(08:01) The Intersection of Faith, Femme, and Fashion

(13:28) Embracing Queerness and Finding Strength in Faith

(25:03) Small Town Faith and Queerness

(27:34) The Communal and Caring Nature of Small Town Life

(32:13) Navigating the Challenges of Being an Out Queer Clergy

(36:02) Preaching with Honesty and Authenticity in a Small Town

(43:21) Recognizing the Complexities of Small Town and Big City Life

(45:17) The Importance of Visibility and Representation in Rural Areas

(47:41) Finding Joy in the Presence of Sapphic Farmers

(52:36) Creating Spaces for Reflection and Connection: The Echo Monastery

Resources:

Learn more at https://www.revjeskast.com/
Follow Jes on Instagram at @revjeskast
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTThe post Queer Country Femme Ministry with Rev. Jes Kast appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Rabbi Andy Kahn is on the podcast this week sharing their journey of self-discovery, faith, and the intersection of queerness and Judaism. They discuss their experience growing up Jewish, their path to becoming a rabbi, and their work in eco-theology. Our conversation delves into the concept of God, relationality, and the interconnectedness of all life forms. Rabbi Kahn discusses the interplay between God, ritual, and ethical practice, emphasizing the role of ritual in creating space for the divine. They also explore the practical impact of religious practices on daily life and the challenges of religious leadership in an anxious age.

Takeaways

Rabbi Andy Kahn’s journey of self-discovery and the intersection of queerness and Judaism.
The concept of eco-theology and the interconnectedness of all life forms.
The idea of God as an entity within which all things exist, and the relationality between God and the ecosystem.
The role of sacred space and rituals in Judaism, and the concept of God existing within the individual’s personal space. Ritual practice creates space for the divine and allows for a realignment of one’s presence in the world.
Religious practices, such as prayer and blessings, lead to mindfulness and a broader perspective, impacting one’s behavior and affect.
Empathy and reflection are essential in religious leadership, especially in times of disagreement and discord.
The practical impact of religious practices extends to daily life, influencing one’s internal world and behavior, and contributing to a sense of purpose and positive affect.

Chapters

(00:00) Exploring Identity, Faith, and Queerness

(06:28) Eco-Theology and the Interconnectedness of Life

(27:01) Sacred Space and the Presence of God

(28:54) The Interplay of God and Ritual

(42:13) Practical Impact of Religious Practices

(47:46) Challenges of Religious Leadership

Resources:

https://www.rabbiandruekahn.com/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post The Feedback Loop of the Divine with Rabbi Andy Kahn appeared first on Queer Theology.

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And the big announcement is- we’re writing a book!! We’re so excited that we can finally, officially announce our upcoming book, “Reading the Bible Through Queer Eyes.” This is a working title, the whole publishing process is full of edits and changes. But we’re excited, nervous, scared, ecstatic and we can’t wait to share it with our community. This book is going to offer a whole new way to read and engage with the Bible, drawing from our years of work with QueerTheology. So stay tuned as we go through the publishing process!

Takeaways

The announcement of the upcoming book ‘Reading the Bible Through Queer Eyes’ is a significant milestone for Shannon and Brian, marking a new chapter in their work.
Books play a vital role in the lives of the LGBTQ+ community, providing support, representation, and a sense of belonging.
Community support and engagement are crucial for the success of the book, including pre-orders, requests at local bookstores and libraries, and participation in launch teams.
The book aims to offer a new perspective on sacred stories from scripture, anchored in queer and trans experience, and to continue the work of the Queer Theology Podcast.
The significance of the book extends beyond its content, as its success will pave the way for more queer and trans stories to be published and shared in the future.

Chapters

(00:00) Announcing ‘Reading the Bible Through Queer Eyes’

(02:59) The Power of Books in the LGBTQ+ Community

(07:56) Community Support for ‘Reading the Bible Through Queer Eyes’

/Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post Brian & Shay: A Big Announcement appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Jennifer Knapp discusses her journey on the pod this week as a singer-songwriter in the contemporary Christian music industry and her subsequent shift to more mainstream music. She talks about the tension she felt between the inspiring messages of Christianity and the restrictive expectations and shame associated with it- particularly in relation to purity culture. Knapp shares her decision to leave the Christian music industry and the challenges she faced in reclaiming her own voice as an artist. She also highlights the importance of wrestling with faith and the need for diversity and inclusivity within Christianity. We discuss the importance of embracing one’s unique identity and finding community without the need for external validation and she expresses her desire to create music that is contemplative, heart-centered, and reflective of personal prayers. Additionally, she discusses her theological studies and the responsibility she feels as a leader in faith spaces.

Takeaways

Jennifer Knapp experienced tension between the inspiring messages of Christianity and the restrictive expectations and shame associated with it, particularly in relation to purity culture.
She made the decision to leave the contemporary Christian music (CCM) industry and reclaim her own voice as an artist.
Knapp emphasizes the importance of wrestling with faith and exploring spirituality outside of the confines of a specific religious market.
She advocates for diversity and inclusivity within Christianity, recognizing the need to acknowledge and appreciate different perspectives and experiences. Embrace your unique identity and focus on self-discovery rather than conforming to external expectations.
Finding community becomes easier when you are confident in who you are and don’t feel the need to defend yourself constantly.
Artistic growth and personal development can be nurtured in private, away from the public spotlight.
Revisiting past work can be a meaningful exercise to reflect on personal growth and share that journey with others.
There is a need for new, thoughtful, and contemplative music in faith spaces that goes beyond traditional hymns and contemporary worship songs.
Take responsibility for creating the community and spaces you desire, whether it’s in art, faith, or any other aspect of life.

Chapters

(02:52) Introducing Jennifer Knapp and Her Background

(03:00) Jennifer Knapp’s Introduction at a Fancy Queer Cocktail Dinner Party

(08:07) Navigating Tension: Inspiring Messages vs. Restrictive Expectations in Christianity

(13:08) Leaving the CCM Industry: Reclaiming My Voice as an Artist

(24:19) Embracing Diversity and Inclusivity in Christianity

(25:27) Embracing Identity and Finding Community

(27:21) Artistic Growth and Personal Development

(27:41) Revisiting the Past: The Re-recording of ‘Kansas’

(29:15) Creating Contemplative and Heart-Centered Music

(41:21) Theological Studies and Responsibility in Faith Spaces

(45:25) Taking Responsibility: Creating the Community You Desire

Resources:

Get more information about Jennifer Knapp and her music at https://jenniferknapp.com/
Patreon community with Jennifer Knapp
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post Growing Up with Jennifer Knapp appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We have Billie Hoard on the podcast this week for a conversation that explores the intersection of queerness, spirituality, theology, and delving into the impact of disgust and its connections with purity culture and fascism. Billie shares her personal experiences and insights, highlighting the role of disgust in shaping social boundaries and exclusion. The discussion also addresses the concept of ‘eucontamination’ and its relevance in religious and progressive spaces. We also delve into practical ways to lower pre-rational disgust responses within religious traditions.

Resources:

Find more of Billie’s writing on Substack: https://billieiswriting.substack.com/
Follow Billie on social: IG- @billieiswriting
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post Being a Good Contaminant with Billie Hoard appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Jessica Jacobs joins us this week to talk about her new book of poetry, “Unalone.” It’s a beautiful collection of poems that are inspired by and in conversation with Genesis. As you read through them, you move through Genesis. It’s such an incredible concept and moving poetry! Jessica also talks about her life and experiences as a queer woman who came to religion later in life as well as the power of words.

Resources:

“Unalone” by Jessica Jacobs
Learn more about Jessica Jacobs at her website
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

The post Conversations with Genesis with Jessica Jacobs appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are so excited to welcome Cassidy Hall to the podcast for a conversation about her book, ‘Queer and Contemplation.’ We talk with Cassidy about the importance of queering traditional religious concepts and practices. She shares her personal experiences with faith and queerness, and how they intersected in her upbringing. Hall defines contemplation as a sacred pause and emphasizes the need for both inner reflection and active engagement. She explores the idea of queering as a way to subvert dominant structures and embrace uniqueness and oddity. Hall also discusses the process of breaking up with traditional theologians and expanding the scope of voices in spiritual discourse. She encourages everyone to recognize the contemplative moments in their lives and to respond with love, justice, and liberation.

Takeaways

Contemplation is a sacred pause that allows for inner reflection and listening to one’s inner voice.
Queering is a way to subvert dominant structures and embrace uniqueness and oddity.
It is important to break up with traditional theologians and expand the scope of voices in spiritual discourse.
Everyone already engages in contemplation in their own way, and it is about recognizing and embracing those moments.
Contemplation requires both inner reflection and active engagement, responding with love, justice, and liberation.

Chapters

(05:57) The Harmful Messages of Evangelical Christianity

(08:08) Defining Contemplation

(13:09) Queering Traditional Concepts and Practices

(21:03) Breaking Up with Traditional Theologians

(32:29) Accessibility and Recognition of Contemplation

(39:24) The Importance of Action and Response

Resources:

“Queering Contemplation” by Cassidy Hall
Website: https://cassidyhall.com/about-me/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post Queering Contemplation with Cassidy Hall appeared first on Queer Theology.

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It’s officially Pride Month and we’re so excited to share how we’re going to celebrate it this year! We share personal stories of pride, acceptance and reflect on the power of queer elders and the generations that have come before us to make Pride what it is today. Not to mention, how they have made the world a better place. We also discuss the importance of finding role models and community support in cultivating pride in one’s queerness. We gotta separate the negative connotations of ‘pride’ as arrogance from the positive sense of self-assuredness and celebration of one’s identity. We encourage you to embrace the scandalous and resistant roots of Pride and to participate in the sacred rituals of queer gatherings.

Takeaways

Pride Month is an opportunity to celebrate and honor the generations of queer people who have fought for LGBTQ+ rights and acceptance.
Queer elders play a crucial role in the LGBTQ+ community, and their stories and experiences should be valued and celebrated.
Finding role models and community support can help cultivate pride in one’s queerness and create a sense of possibility and acceptance.
It is important to separate the negative connotations of pride as arrogance from the positive sense of self-assuredness and celebration of one’s identity.
Pride has its roots in resistance against discrimination and oppression, and it is important to remember and honor this history.
Participating in Pride events and queer gatherings can be a powerful and sacred experience that connects individuals to a larger community and history.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction and Pride Month Plans

(02:42) Celebrating Pride Month and Honoring Queer Elders

(09:35) Cultivating Pride: Role Models and Community Support

(15:06) From Arrogance to Self-Assuredness: Redefining Pride

(33:00) The Sacred Rituals of Queer Gatherings

Resources:

Join the Queerness Everyday Challenge at queertheology.com/challenge
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post Finding Your Pride appeared first on Queer Theology.

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It’s no secret that we’re really big fans of spiritual practice. Especially one that really makes you feel connected to your queer spirituality! In this episode, we discuss the difference between spiritual practices and habits. We explore how spiritual practices can connect us to ourselves, something bigger than us, and other people. We share personal stories and examples of how spiritual practices have enriched our own lives. It is so important to have intentionality and repetition in spiritual practices, so we offer suggestions for infusing queerness into existing practices. And if you are ready to go even deeper, join our Queerness Everyday Challenge!

Takeaways

Spiritual practices connect us to ourselves, something bigger than us, and other people.
Habits and routines are different from spiritual practices because they may not serve the same purposes.
Spiritual practices can be infused with queerness and can be personalized to fit our individual needs and experiences.
Repetition and intentionality are key in developing meaningful and transformative spiritual practices.
The Queerness Every Day Challenge is a great opportunity to explore and deepen our spiritual practices.

Chapters

(0:25) Difference Between Spiritual Practices and Habits

(8:18) The Power of Repetition and Intentionality

(12:45) Personal Stories of Meaningful Spiritual Practices

(26:16) Join the Queerness Every Day Challenge

Resources:

Join the Queerness Everyday Challenge at queertheology.com/challenge
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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We discuss the connection between queerness and spirituality in this episode… Yes- that is what we’re ALWAYS trying to get at! Here we share our personal experiences of feeling disconnected from queerness and spirituality in the past. Finding ways to integrate them into our everyday lives has been a journey and we’ve got some ways you can start to feel more connected to your queerness.

Takeaways

Queerness and spirituality can be integrated and connected in meaningful ways.
Taking intentional, embodied, communal, small and sustainable, and regular actions can deepen the connection between queerness and spirituality.
The Queerness Every Day Challenge offers simple actions to help participants integrate queerness and spirituality.
The challenge provides a supportive community and resources to explore the intersections of queerness and spirituality.

Chapters

(00:00) Feeling Disconnected from Queerness

(05:43) Integration of Queerness and Spirituality

(11:33) Taking Action to Connect Queerness and Spirituality

(19:16) Building Community and Taking Small, Sustainable, and Regular Actions

Resources:

Join the Queerness Everyday Challenge at queertheology.com/challenge
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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We are so excited to bring you a special interview on the pod this week! Not only did we get to preview the new season of “We’re Here,” but we got to interview one of the stars of the show, Latrice Royale. Latrice discusses the importance of the show and how it is shedding light on the struggles of the queer community as well as dispelling misinformation about drag. She also shares her journey of finding her purpose through drag and how it has allowed her to impact others’ lives. Our conversation explores the tension and pushback faced by the drag queens in Oklahoma and the importance of standing up for the community. Latrice emphasizes the need for people to step out of their bubbles, learn from one another, and be allies by voting for change.

Takeaways

‘We’re Here’ sheds light on the struggles of the queer community and dispels misinformation about drag.
Drag can be a sacred calling and a ministry that impacts and improves lives.
Religious teachings on homosexuality can create conflicts for queer individuals.
Inclusive churches provide a welcoming and affirming space for queer people.
Drag queens can inspire and motivate change in communities.
Allies need to step up and support the queer community by voting for change.

Chapters

(1:39) Introducing our wonderful guest, Latrice Royale

(3:01) Conversation on queerness, spirituality, and rural America

(15:16) Latrice discusses drag as a sacred calling

(19:39) Exploration of religious experiences in “We’re Here” and their religious background

(22:23) Discussion on rediscovering faith during challenging times

(25:43) Latrice reflects on their experiences in an inclusive church

Resources:

The new season of “We’re Here” is out on
Join the course From Affirmation to Liberation at queertheology.com/class
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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In this conversation we explore the topic of prayer from our different perspectives as an atheist and an ordained Catholic priest. We discuss what prayer is and why people pray, as well as the need for alternatives to prayer. We also got 13 alternatives to prayer that you can put into your spiritual practice today (hint- you might already be doing some of them!). The important thing here is the intentionality. And sometimes experimentation in finding a prayer practice that works for each individual can be a really rewarding way to deepen your faith and prayer practice.

Takeaways

Prayer is a way to connect with something bigger than ourselves and can take many forms.
There are various reasons why someone might need or want alternatives to prayer, such as feeling disconnected from a previous prayer tradition or feeling like their current prayer practice has become stale.
Experimenting with different prayer alternatives can help individuals find a practice that resonates with them and brings them a sense of connection and peace.
Intentionality and consistency are key in developing a prayer practice, and it’s important to give new practices time to develop and evolve.
Changing up prayer practices can lead to new insights and experiences, and it’s beneficial to try different approaches to prayer, even if you already have a prayer practice that works for you.

Chapters

(09:54) Reasons for Seeking Alternatives to Prayer

(35:38) Experimenting with Prayer Practices

Resources:

Rituals for Resistance & Resilience on demand workshop
Join Spiritual Study Hall to get access to all QueerTheology resources
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Y’all know we love asking questions. So in this episode we’re gonna to get into the importance of asking questions to deepen one’s faith. That might seem counterintuitive to what we’ve been taught because so much of conservative religious upbringing is to NOT ask questions. We explain how asking questions is crucial because it helps individuals clarify what is important to them and what they want to achieve. We also talk about one of our favorite practices (journaling!) and we have 7 questions you can ask yourself right now to start deepening your faith.

Takeaways

Asking questions is an important part of deepening one’s faith and clarifying what is important to them.
Writing down or speaking out loud one’s thoughts and beliefs can help in gaining clarity and making commitments.
Journaling is a powerful tool for self-reflection and tracking personal growth.
The seven questions discussed in the episode can be used to deepen one’s faith and explore different aspects of spirituality.Feeling close to God or the sacred is a personal and unique experience, and it’s important to reflect on specific moments, details, and emotions associated with those experiences.
Understanding what closeness means to you and what aspects of those experiences were meaningful can help guide your spiritual journey and bring depth to your faith life.
Curiosity plays a crucial role in deepening your religious tradition. Being curious about theological tenets, practices, or learning more about specific aspects can keep you engaged and open to growth.
Identifying what you want more of in your faith life requires specificity and clarity. Breaking down your desires into actionable steps and defining when and how you will engage in those practices is essential.
Recognizing and addressing barriers that have kept you from deepening your faith is crucial. This may involve external factors, such as lack of access or community, as well as internal obstacles, such as fear or uncertainty.
Taking one specific action step at a time can move you closer to your spiritual goals. Scheduling and planning these steps, even in the face of resistance or uncertainty, increases the likelihood of follow-through.
Being part of a supportive community and seeking accountability can provide encouragement and guidance in your spiritual journe

Chapters

(04:21) The Power of Journaling for Self-Reflection

(08:50) Question: When Have You Felt Closest to God?

(15:13) Question: Moments of Wanting to Deepen Your Faith

(20:51) Question: Continuing the Journey of Deepening Your Faith

(25:24) Reflecting on Moments of Closeness to God

(32:05) Cultivating Curiosity in Religious Traditions

(35:06) Identifying Desires for a Deeper Faith Life

(37:49) The Value of Community and Accountability in Spiritual Growth

Resources:

Join Spiritual Study Hall to get access to all QueerTheology resources
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post 7 Questions to Deepen Your Faith appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we get into our ever evolving relationship with the Bible. We reflect on our early experiences with the Bible as children, including the simplified and often traumatizing stories we were taught. As we grew older, both of us felt pressure to read the Bible regularly and experienced a ton of guilt when we didn’t meet those expectations. Brian shares how his discovery of his queerness led him to search for inclusion in the Bible, while Shannon explores his journey of reading the Bible academically and finding new meaning through artistic interpretation. We also discuss the importance of understanding the historical and cultural context of the Bible and the importance of knowing history to help make sense of faith.

Takeaways

Early experiences with the Bible can be simplified and traumatizing, leading to a need for reevaluation and reinterpretation.
Feeling guilty for not reading the Bible regularly is common, but it’s important to find a personal approach that feels authentic.
Exploring the Bible academically and artistically can provide new perspectives and meaning.
Understanding the historical and cultural context of the Bible is crucial for interpretation and avoiding misinterpretation. Having a grounding library of foundational documents provides a point of reference and a source of inspiration.
Knowing our history helps us understand how people have made sense of faith and navigate big questions.
Living with tensions and making decisions can be challenging, but community support and communal discernment can provide guidance.
Engaging in discussions and learning from diverse perspectives can expand our minds and lead to personal growth.

Chapters

(00:27) Early relationship with the Bible

(04:07) Searching for inclusion

(05:32) Viewing the Bible as a creative story

(06:02) Source material for creative works

(06:30) Reading the Bible from a Jewish perspective

(07:00) Different interpretations of the Bible

(09:21) Navigating Christian and Jewish perspectives

(10:48) Transitioning and reimagining the Bible

(13:23) Memorizing Bible verses and devotionals

(14:49) Engaging with the Bible academically

(16:14) Finding new meaning through artistic interpretation

(24:27) The power of texts and foundational documents

(30:07) Knowing history and making sense of faith

(34:20) Living with tensions and making decisions

(44:10) The importance of community and communal discernment

Resources:

Learn more and sign up for the workshop, From Affirmation to Liberation at queertheology.com/class
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Sometimes, it’s really empowering to look back on where we came from. With Fr. Shay’s upcoming lecture on the history of Queer theology, we wanted to dive into this a bit for this episode. It is so important for us to know our queer history, and we share our personal experiences with learning about it. How it shaped us then and how it continues to shape us now! We really want to highlight the significance of understanding the legacy and movements that queer people have been a part of throughout history. Because you are part of that, you will continue with what has been started.

Takeaways

Knowing queer history helps situate individuals within a larger community and movement.
Learning about queer history provides a sense of belonging and inspiration.
Understanding the co-opting of queer stories by straight and cis individuals is important in recognizing the erasure and distortion of queer experiences.
Drawing from past activism and movements can inform current efforts for LGBTQ+ rights and inclusion.

Chapters

(00:31) The Importance of Knowing Queer History

(06:48) Personal Experiences with Queer History

(13:54) Learning from Queer Movements and Organizations

(23:52) Learning from Past Activism

(28:30) The Queer Theology Movement

(31:01) Upcoming Course on Queer Theology

Resources:

Learn more and sign up for the workshop, From Affirmation to Liberation at queertheology.com/class
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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If there is one question we get alot it’s: where to find an LGBTQ+ Affirming translation of the Bible? Like, we get this question ALOT alot. So we’re going to get into it on this week’s episode! If you are deconstructing or seeking a more expansive view of God, it can lead you to question the Bible translation you are using. And that is actually really great! What we want to emphasize is that the problem lies not in the Bible itself, but in the lens through which it is read. We encourage readers to unlearn and RELEARN how to approach the Bible. And to do that you have to go deep. But we’ve got some great resources for you to help you do that!

Takeaways

The problem is not the Bible itself, but the lens through which it is read.
Readers must unlearn and relearn how to approach the Bible in order to understand its message.
Specific translations, such as the Common English Bible and the New Revised Standard Version, can be helpful in reading the Bible from a more inclusive and expansive perspective.
Books about the Bible, such as Rob Bell’s ‘What Is the Bible?’ and works by Marcus Borg and John Dominic Crossan, can provide valuable insights and help readers engage with the text in new ways.
Engaging with the Bible is an ongoing process that allows readers to make it their own and find resonance with their own experiences.

Chapters

(01:11) The Assumptions Behind the Question

(07:40) The Responsibility of Readers

(09:08) The Work of Reading the Bible

(10:17) The Bible as a Complicated Collection of Books

(13:04) Unlearning and Relearning

(15:37) The Joy of Foundations

(19:21) The Challenge of Finding Progressive Resources

(20:50) Specific Bible Recommendations

(22:48) Books About the Bible

(26:32) Making the Bible Your Own

(29:50) Additional Resources and Courses

Resources:

Learn more and sign up for the workshop, From Affirmation to Liberation at queertheology.com/class
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community
“What is the Bible” by Rob Bell
Any of the books Marcus Borg and John Dominic Crossan have written together.
Our Bible App
Bible recommendations
- Common English Bible
- New Revised Standard Version
- Oxford Standard Bible for an academic version

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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It’s Easter Sunday and we’re discussing the concept of Easter and how it relates to the struggles and questions faced by those in progressive faith communities. We explore the role of miracles and The Resurrection story in Christianity, and the tension between belief and skepticism. We really want to highlight the power of storytelling and metaphor as a way to convey deeper truths. We also get into the distinction between history and myth, and the importance of grappling with the complexities of faith traditions. Ultimately, we feel the message of Easter is seen as an invitation to participate in creating a new world of justice and liberation.

Takeaways

The Easter story raises questions about miracles and the resurrection, and how they are understood in progressive faith communities.
Storytelling and metaphor are powerful tools for conveying deeper truths and connecting with our human nature.
The distinction between history and myth is a modern concept, and both can contain elements of truth and meaning.
Grappling with the complexities of faith traditions is an important part of personal growth and understanding.

Chapters:

(00:55) Struggling with Miracles and the Resurrection

(04:29) The Truth of Miracles

(06:07) History vs Myth

(08:24) The Call to Action

(11:45) The Resurrection as a Radical Political Message

(14:51) The Persistence of Christianity

(19:09) The Mystery of Easter

(20:06) Living in the New World

(23:41) Upcoming Class and Community

Resources:

Join the waitlist for the workshop From Affirmation to Liberation at queertheology.com/class
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community
Queering Easter past podcast episodes:
- Easter 2017
- Palm Sunday and Holy Week

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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It’s Holy Week for many Christians, so we’re kicking it off with an episode on Palm Sunday. Palm Sunday is one of those things that we come back to. Like, a lot. The messy and powerful nature of Palm Sunday just lends itself to the parallels we see in the struggles of queer folk during the AIDS crisis and continuing today. On this Palm Sunday, we encourage you to stand up and confront oppressive theologies and injustices, even in the face of fear! We also want to encourage you to lean into your communities and networks during challenging times. But also to keep your joy, hope, and vision of liberation as we move forward. ⁠

Takeaways

Palm Sunday is a significant holiday that holds meaning for both Christians and those who have left the faith.
Queer theology can deepen one’s understanding and practice of faith, connecting it to activism and social justice.
Palm Sunday is a powerful example of marginalized communities challenging oppressive systems and theologies.
Fear is a natural part of activism, but it should not deter us from standing up for justice and confronting injustice.

Chapters:

(01:16) Palm Sunday and Queer Theology

(04:31) The Messiness of Palm Sunday

(05:25) Palm Sunday as a Mockery of Rome

(07:16) Palm Sunday and the Holiness of Activism

(08:20) The Misunderstanding of Palm Sunday

(09:48) The Context of Palm Sunday

(10:17) The Conflict Embodied in the Processions

(11:17) Confronting Theologies of Death

(13:00) Fear and Courage in Activism

(17:48) The Importance of Community and Networks

(19:13) Discernment and Making Decisions

(25:01) Hope and Vision in Activism

Resources:

Join the waitlist for the workshop From Affirmation to Liberation at queertheology.com/class
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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In this episode, we discuss the difference between affirming theology and queer theology. We talk about the origin of queertheology.com and explore the ineffectiveness of arguing for affirmation and the need for a more proactive approach. We also delve into the rich history of queer theology and its ability to save and transform faith. It’s important to emphasize the distinction between individual experiences and organizational priorities, along with recognizing that feeling of dissonance. We recognize the precariousness of LGBTQ+ rights and the limitations of assimilation, which leads us to believing in the proactive nature of queer theology and its intersectionality with other liberation theologies.

Takeaways

Queer theology offers a proactive and transformative approach to faith, going beyond the debate of LGBTQ+ affirmation.
Individual experiences may differ from organizational priorities, and it is important to recognize and reckon with this dissonance.
Assimilation is not a guarantee of LGBTQ+ rights, and the fight for liberation requires constant vigilance and action.
Queer theology is part of a larger tapestry of liberation theologies, contributing to a more inclusive and just world.

Chapters

(03:20) The Rich History of Queer Theology

(05:35) Queer Theology’s Commitment to Queer People

(06:37) Personal Transformation through Queer Theology

(08:43) The Importance of Individual Experiences vs. Organizational Priorities

(11:25) Distinguishing Between the Reformation Project and its Participants

(13:45) Recognizing Dissonance and Reckoning with Organizational Priorities

(15:13) The Importance of Community and Family

(18:13) The Precariousness of LGBTQ+ Rights

(20:01) The Proactive Nature of Queer Theology

(21:50) The Intersectionality of Liberation Theologies

(23:37) Queer Theology as a Call to Action

(26:48) The Transformative Power of Queer Theology

(29:04) The Personal and Pastoral Healing of Queer Theology

(30:33) Announcement of Workshop Series: From Affirmation to Liberation

Resources:

Join the waitlist for the workshop From Affirmation to Liberation at queertheology.com/class
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We got more big news: Fr. Shay is writing another book! In this episode, he talks about his inspiration to write, ‘No One Taught Me How to Be a Man: What a Trans Man’s Experience Reveals About Masculinity.’ We discuss the shifts in masculinity and how it is viewed among different groups, navigating masculinity as a trans man, and the crisis of masculinity. Shay shares how the gift of transness and the importance of intentionality has shaped his own masculinity. Cis folks can learn alot from a trans perspective on masculinity, you’re gonna want to check out his book!

Takeaways

Masculinity is a complex and evolving concept that can be explored through personal experiences and research.
There is a crisis of masculinity that affects men’s physical and mental health, relationships, and overall well-being.
Men can divest from harmful masculinities by listening to others’ experiences, examining their own behaviors and choices, and being intentional in their actions.
Trans individuals have a unique perspective on masculinity and can offer valuable insights into redefining and understanding it.
The journey of self-discovery and intentional masculinity can lead to a deeper sense of self and healthier relationships.

Chapters

(0:00) Intro

(4:09) The Inspiration for the Book

(8:29) Shifts in Masculinity from 2008 to 2023

(10:24) Navigating Masculinity as a Trans Man

(21:05) The Crisis of Masculinity

(25:34) Navigating the Fraught Conversation

(26:55) Actions for Divesting from Harmful Masculinities

(31:49) Staying Updated on the Book

(33:14) Outro

Resources:

Get more info on Fr. Shay’s book and join his email list at shannontlkearns.com
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We got some big news here: Brian is writing a book! He shares his big and exciting news of signing a book deal to write about polyamory and spirituality. A topic we have been keen to talk about for years now, even if it got us some pretty good push-back! Brian discusses his journey to polyamory and the lack of resources from a Christian and queer male perspective. We explore the challenges and stigma of polyamory in Christian spaces and the anxiety surrounding sexuality. Brian explains the unique approach of his book, which goes beyond a how-to guide and delves into the connections between polyamory and spirituality.

Takeaways

Brian has signed a book deal to write a book about polyamory and spirituality.
Polyamory is often stigmatized and misunderstood in Christian spaces.
There is a need for resources that explore the connections between polyamory and spirituality from a Christian and queer male perspective.
Integrating polyamory and spirituality involves understanding and aligning personal values with relationship structures.

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction and Brian’s Big News

(03:36) Brian’s Journey to Polyamory

(09:56) Challenges and Stigma of Polyamory in Christian Spaces

(14:11) Anxiety about Sexuality in Christian Spaces

(22:47) Brian’s Book and its Unique Approach

(25:21) The Connection between Polyamory and Spirituality

(29:23) What Monogamous People Can Learn from Polyamory

(35:43) Integrating Polyamory and Spirituality

(38:03) Stay Updated on Brian’s Book

(40:32) Closing Remarks

Resources:

Get more info on when Brian’s book at briangerald.com/book
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Fr. Shay talks with Angela J Herrington and discusses her new book, “Deconstructing Your Faith Without Losing Yourself.” Angela shares her personal journey of faith and the experiences that led her to write the book. She talks about her definition of deconstruction as the process of examining and questioning beliefs to determine what is worth keeping. She also addresses common misconceptions about deconstruction and explains why it has become a popular topic of discussion. We touch on the importance of slowing down, embracing uncertainty, and finding joy in the deconstruction process. Her book aims to support individuals navigating deconstruction.

Takeaways

Deconstruction is the process of examining and questioning beliefs to determine what is worth keeping.
Common misconceptions about deconstruction include viewing it as lazy or the easy way out.
Slowing down, embracing uncertainty, and finding joy in the deconstruction process are important for personal growth.
Angela’s book, ‘Deconstructing Your Faith Without Losing Yourself,’ offers a practice-based approach to deconstruction and aims to support individuals in their journey.
Deconstruction conversations have gained momentum due to the church’s failure to address issues of injustice and the rise of online platforms.
It is important to prioritize mental health and seek therapy or coaching support during the deconstruction process.
The book is for individuals who are questioning their beliefs, struggling with self-doubt, or feeling stuck in their deconstruction journey.
Angela’s website, angelajherrington.com, provides additional resources and information about her work.

Chapters

(2:54) The Journey of Faith and Church Experiences

(08:48) Questions and Doubts in the Church

(13:22) Understanding Deconstruction

(17:46) The Rise of Deconstruction Conversations

(20:32) Writing the Book and Its Purpose

(27:01) Embracing Uncertainty and Slowing Down

(35:07) The Book’s Audience and Impact

(37:38) Where to Find More Information

(40:20) Outro

Resources:

Deconstructing Your Faith Without Losing Yourself by Angela Herrington
Website, https://angelajherrington.com/
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re gonna queer Lent in this episode, y’all! We discuss how to make Lenten practices more inclusive and meaningful for queer and trans individuals and talk about our own personal Lenten practices. We got some ideas for you on how to connect your queerness with spirituality during this season. We also get into the importance of community care, the value of queer organizations, and the significance of reading queer and trans theology. One of our biggest themes is how important it is to take care of our bodies. So it is especially important to re-inhabit and care for our bodies as part of a queer Lenten practice.

Takeaways

Lent is traditionally observed as the 40 days leading up to Easter, and it is a time of fasting, prayer, and almsgiving.
Queering Lent involves making the practice more inclusive and meaningful for queer and trans individuals.
Additive practices, such as reading queer and trans theology or supporting queer organizations, can be incorporated into Lenten observance.
Re-inhabiting and caring for our bodies is an important aspect of a queer Lenten practice.

Chapters:

(02:28) Personal Lenten Practices

(09:21) Queering Lent

(16:16) Connecting Lent and Queerness

(19:38) Additive Practices

(24:08) Investing in Community

(25:20) Re-inhabiting the Body

(27:36) Conclusion and Plug for Sanctuary Collective

Resources:

Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’ve got our first crossover episode this week! Fr. Shay is introducing his new podcast, ‘In the Margins,’ and talks about how this podcast is set up like a weekly sermon, mixed with some storytelling, mixed with reading these familiar texts from the margins. For his first episode, “In Christ and in Colossae,” he is diving into Colossians 1:1-2 and confronting the harms these texts have caused. Follow Fr. Shay’s podcast for a new episode each week!

Resources:

In The Margins with Shannon TL Kearns
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

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It’s no secret that we’re big fans of all bodies and embodiment and in this episode we discuss the intersection of bodies and spirituality. We both have had personal experiences with shame and disconnection from our bodies, particularly in relation to gender identity. Fr. Shay talks about how transitioning helped him become more aware of and connected to his body and also helped him explore the concept of ‘embodied spirituality’ in Catholicism where there is emphasis on taking care of the body as it ages. We want to emphasize by having this conversation the need for self-care and the belief that the body is WORTHY of care.

Takeaways

Shame and disconnection from the body can be common experiences, particularly for queer individuals who have been taught to despise their bodies.
Transitioning can be a transformative experience that helps individuals become more aware of and connected to their bodies.
Embodied spirituality is an important aspect of Catholicism, with rituals and practices that involve the physical body.
Taking care of the body is essential, especially as it ages, and it is important to recognize that the body is worthy of care.
Starting small and building confidence in caring for the body can open up possibilities for self-discovery and self-acceptance.

Chapters

(01:01) Shame and Disconnection from the Body

(03:23) Transitioning and Reconnecting with the Body

(05:20) Embodied Spirituality in Catholicism

(06:28) Using the Body in Spiritual Practices

(08:21) Taking Care of the Body and Aging

(11:06) The Importance of Self-Care and Worthiness

(13:22) Viewing the Body as a Temple

(15:20) Creating Rituals for the Body

(17:20) Starting Small and Building Confidence

(22:05) Opening Up Possibilities through Small Steps

(23:18) Invitation to join Soulful Sexuality

Resources:

Learn more and join Soulful Sexuality
Join Spiritual Study Hall
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re coming to you this Thursday with a special episode and a special announcement! Registration for our new course, Soulful Sexuality, opens today! In it we’re gonna explore the intersections of sexuality, spirituality, and faith from a queer perspective. We invite you to join us as we reconnect to our bodies and challenge the negative teachings around sex and sexuality. This is a course that will be a sex-positive and inclusive space for open dialogue. You can learn more and register at queertheology.com/soulful-sexuality.

Learn more and register for Soulful Sexuality

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This episode explores the difference between rules and ethics in the context of faith and spirituality. We share our personal experiences with rule-based perspectives and the anxiety and fear that can come with them. We discuss the presence of rules in both conservative and progressive spaces, highlighting the moral purity often found in the latter. This conversation emphasizes the importance of shifting from a rule-based perspective to one rooted in values and ethics. And we’re here to help you with all of that inside Soulful Sexuality!

Takeaways

Rules and ethics can play a significant role in shaping our decisions and actions in matters of faith and spirituality.
Both conservative and progressive spaces can have their own sets of rules, which can lead to anxiety and fear.
Shifting from a rule-based perspective to one rooted in values and ethics allows for greater agency and personal growth.
Living out our values and ethics from a place of abundance and joy can lead to liberation and a sense of enoughness.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction: Difference between rules and ethics

01:26 Personal experiences with rules and ethics

06:15 Progressive spaces and rules

08:10 Fear and anxiety around rules

09:06 Shifting away from rule-based perspective

11:16 Living out values and ethics

17:13 Progressive spaces and moral purity

18:16 Religious and secular anxieties around rule following

22:46 Starting from a place of inclusion

25:02 Shifting from rules to ethics in community

29:08 Living out values from a place of abundance

30:18 Invitation to Soulful Sexuality

Resources:

Learn more and join Soulful Sexuality
Join Spiritual Study Hall
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

Episode Transcript

The post Rigid Rules Vs. Sexual Ethics appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we explore the genealogy of Jesus and the inclusion of “scandalous” women in the biblical narrative. Rahab, Ruth, Bathsheba, Tamar, and Mary. We dive extra into Rahab’s story, emphasizing her transformation from a sex worker to a great-(great…great…)grandmother of Jesus. The impact of Jesus’ family tree on his worldview and his encounters with scandalous women are discussed. The conversation also delves into the sanitization of biblical stories and the harm it can cause. We get into the power dynamics of controlling sexuality and the intersection of shame and silence. And finally, we talk about the importance of telling our own stories and embracing embodied spirituality.

Takeaways

The genealogy of Jesus includes scandalous women, challenging traditional notions of purity and righteousness.
Sexual scandal has often been used as a means of maintaining power and control.
The sanitization of biblical stories can lead to the erasure of the fullness and complexity of women’s experiences.
Embracing our sexuality and desires can lead to a more embodied and inclusive spirituality.

Chapters

(01:56) The inclusion of women in the genealogy

(03:25) The story of Rahab and his significance in the genealogy

(05:19) The impact of Jesus’ family tree on his worldview

(06:47) Jesus’ encounters with scandalous women and how sexual scandal is a threat to political power

(08:48) The sanitization of biblical stories and the complexity of biblical characters

(11:00) The importance of telling our own stories

(13:56) The intersection of shame and silence

(16:06) The inclusion of scandalous women in scripture and exploring sexuality and gender in the Bible

(18:43) The control of bodies and desires for power

(21:28) The fixation on certain sexual issues

(22:23) Reflecting on personal sexual histories

(24:52) Releasing shame and embracing embodied spirituality

(29:18) Creating space for sexuality and desire in spirituality

(30:16) Announcement: Soulful Sexuality Course

Resources:

Learn more and join Soulful Sexuality
Join Spiritual Study Hall
Join the Sanctuary Collective Community
In the Margins: A Transgender Man’s Journey With Scripture by Fr. Shannon TL Kearns

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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For this episode, we have a special guest! Brian interviews Kevin Garcia (they/them) about their new book “What Makes You Bloom?” They discuss Kevin’s background, their concept of God, and the importance of finding wonder in nature. They also explore Kevin’s Christian upbringing and their journey to freedom through deconstruction. Kevin shares the challenges of leaving the church and why they ultimately stopped believing in “staying to create change.” They discuss the heartbreak of leaving and the importance of spiritual practice. Kevin shares surprises they encountered while writing the book and who it is for, and emphasizes the power of learning and doing in spiritual growth.

Takeaways

Exploring the concept of God and finding wonder in nature are important aspects of spirituality.
Deconstruction is a challenging but necessary process for many individuals on their spiritual journey.
Staying in church can be a way to create change and support the LGBTQ+ community.
Slowing down and taking time to soak in spiritual teachings can lead to a more powerful experience.
The book ‘What Makes You Bloom?’ is for those seeking to connect with something greater than themselves and offers practical activities for spiritual growth.

Chapters

(03:19) Exploring the Concept of God

(06:00) Finding Wonder in Nature

(08:03) Christian Upbringing and Journey to Freedom

(09:44) The Process of Deconstruction

(13:05) The Challenges of Leaving the Church

(14:53) Staying in Church to Create Change

(16:58) The Heartbreak of Leaving

(21:58) The Importance of ‘What Makes You Bloom?’

(22:38) Flirting with Spiritual, Not Religious

(31:10) The Role of Practice in Spirituality

(34:06) The Importance of Slowing Down

(40:45) Surprises While Writing ‘What Makes You Bloom?’

(42:45) Who is the Book For?

(46:35) The Power of Learning and Doing

(48:21) Conclusion and Where to Find the Book

Resources:

Pre-Order What Makes You Bloom? By Kevin Garcia and get more information about them at their website.
Follow Kevin Garcia on Social: IG @thekevingarcia, Twitter @theKevinGarcia

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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In this episode, we’re exploring the topic of desire and going beyond sexual desire to encompass desire in all its various forms. We discuss the negative messages and fear surrounding desire, in both conservative and progressive religious circles and how that also reverberates into other areas of our lives. We emphasize the importance of reconnecting with and honoring one’s desires, as well as the role of intuition in guiding desires. We also explore the intersection of spirituality and desire, highlighting the connection between desire and the essence of creation. We also give you a heads up about our new course, Soulful Sexuality: Cultivating an Embodied Spirituality for all Genders and Sexualities.

Takeaways

Desire is often misunderstood and stigmatized, both in conservative and progressive religious circles.
Reconnecting with and honoring one’s desires is essential for personal growth and well-being.
Desire is not inherently bad or selfish; it can be a source of joy, fulfillment, and connection.
Exploring and embracing desire can deepen one’s spirituality and understanding of the divine.

Episode Highlights:

(01:17) Fear and disconnection from desire – a common challenge in self-discovery.

(03:13) Negative messages about desire can hinder personal growth and fulfillment.

(04:12) Cutting off intuition may obstruct the natural flow of one’s desires.

(05:32) Personal messaging about desire plays a crucial role in shaping our perceptions.

(08:07) Progressive circles and desire – exploring how societal influences impact our desires.

(10:01) The ongoing process of discovering desire is a lifelong journey.

(12:23) Starting small is an effective approach to tune into your desires.

(13:13) Being gentle with yourself is essential in navigating the complexities of desire.

(15:18) Journaling serves as a valuable practice for understanding and expressing desires.

(18:31) Saying yes and no to desire is a nuanced aspect of personal growth.

(21:59) Spirituality and desire are interconnected in the exploration of one’s inner self.

(25:50) Desire as the essence of creation – a profound perspective on the nature of desires.

(28:31) Reframing the story of desire can empower individuals to embrace their true selves.

(32:25) Desire and sexuality in Christianity – a complex intersection worth exploring.

(34:17) Upcoming course: Soulful Sexuality promises to delve into the depth of desire.

(35:04) Deepening spirituality through desire offers a holistic approach to personal development.

Resources:

Spiritual Study Hall
Set up your account on our new resource platform: https://my.queertheology.com/home
Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

The post Holy Desire appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re sharing our favorite aspects of queer and trans faith and spiritual practices. We talk about how we’ve developed our own spiritual practices over the years, really leaning into what feels best for us and how they align with our values. The important part of creating spiritual practices is that they must be in line with your values! And sometimes finding spiritual practices means going beyond the traditional notions of what those ought to look like. We also discuss the significance of planning and setting goals, starting small and building over time, and connecting to past and future generations. Shay shares his love for journaling as a spiritual practice, while Brian discusses the power of repeating prayers and wearing physical reminders of spirituality. We invite y’all to reflect on your intentions for queer faith in the new year!

Takeaways

Spiritual practices can go beyond traditional notions and encompass living in line with one’s values and engaging in intentional actions.
Setting goals and planning can help individuals be more intentional with their time and live into their values.
Starting small and building over time is a more sustainable approach to new spiritual practices.
Connecting to past and future generations can provide a sense of continuity and inspiration in one’s spiritual journey.
Journaling and reflective practices can be powerful tools for self-reflection and envisioning the future.
Queerness, transness, and Christianity can intersect and inform one’s spiritual practices and understanding of faith.
Reflecting on intentions for queer faith in the new year can help individuals set meaningful goals and engage in transformative practices.

Chapters

(1:00) Reflection on the past year

(1:28) Rituals and intentions for the New Year

(8:00) Living in line with values and expanding the definition of spiritual practices

(12:03) Planning and setting goals

(15:03) Starting small and building over time

(17:36) Connecting to past and future generations

(26:55) Journaling and reflective practices

(29:15) Queerness, transness, and Christianity

(31:10) Inviting queer faith in the New Year

Resources:

Spiritual Study Hall
Set up your account on our new resource platform: https://my.queertheology.com/home
Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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We’re queering Christmas for this episode of the podcast! First, we’re gonna explore the queer and political aspects of Christmas by examining the gospel of Luke and Matthew from the Bible. Then we discuss the meaning of Christmas and the birth of Jesus, emphasizing the radical and political nature of the story. Finally, we really dive into the birth narratives in both of these books of Luke and Matthew, highlighting the differences and the theological and political messages conveyed in each. This conversation explores the significance of the shepherds and the Magi, as well as the political implications of the angel’s message. We also get into the personal and pastoral relevance of Christmas for queer and trans individuals, emphasizing the importance of chosen family and the call to challenge unjust structures in society.

Takeaways

Christmas has a radical and political nature that is often overlooked in the consumer-driven culture.
The birth narratives in the books of Luke and Matthew offer different perspectives and emphasize different theological and political messages.
The shepherds and the Magi represent marginalized and powerful individuals, respectively, who recognize the significance of Jesus’ birth.
Christmas holds personal and pastoral significance for queer and trans individuals, providing an opportunity to reimagine traditions and challenge unjust structures.

Chapters

(0:00) Introduction and Meaning of Christmas

(5:54) A few points about the two scriptures that need to be said

(11:41) Diving into Scripture: Luke

(23:26) Diving into Scripture: Matthew

(25:20) Comparing the Birth Stories

(32:33) The Radical Nature of Christmas

(35:44) Personal and Pastoral Significance of Christmas

(38:31) Outro

Resources:

Set up your account on our new resource platform: https://my.queertheology.com/home
Join Spiritual Study Hall to access Reclaim the Bible
Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

The post Queering Christmas appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we discuss the challenges and stress that can come with the holiday season, particularly for queer and trans individuals. We share personal stories of past stressful holidays and how we’ve learned to navigate and set boundaries with our families. We emphasize the importance of having a plan and a support system in place, as well as the need to do the inner work to recognize one’s worthiness and the right to set boundaries. We share the outline of the four steps of Soul Safe, which include identifying what’s at stake, doing the inner work, setting boundaries, and creating a soul-safe plan. But we also want to highlight the importance of flexibility and the ability to change boundaries over time.

Takeaways

Holidays can be particularly stressful for queer and trans individuals due to family dynamics, pressure to be happy, and the amplification of past traumas.
Having a plan and a support system in place is crucial for navigating stressful holiday situations.
Setting boundaries is essential for self-care and maintaining emotional well-being during the holidays.
Boundaries can change over time, and it is important to prioritize one’s own health and wholeness.

Chapters

(1:10) Sharing stressful holiday stories

(03:31) The importance of having a plan and support system

(08:24) Finding support outside of family

(10:31) The amplification of family dynamics during holidays

(16:10) The challenges of setting boundaries

(19:11) The four steps of soul safe

(32:54) The importance of flexibility and changing boundaries

Resources:

Set up your account on our new resource platform: https://my.queertheology.com/home
Unaffirming Friends and Family resource: https://my.queertheology.com/checkout/unaffirming-friends-and-family
Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

Discuss this episode in Circle: https://my.queertheology.com/c/podcast/

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTThe post Help For When the Holidays Suck appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We both are huge believers in being life-long learners and not just for the benefit of expanding knowledge. We’ve found continued learning, curiosity, and asking questions has had a positive impact on our spiritual lives as well. One thing that really supports learning is being in community with others who are wrestling with and asking similar questions. So we invite you to join us! We’ve got a new and exciting way to connect with community and resources. And as you think about what role learning has played in your life, how can you take it a step further?

In this episode, we also answer a listener’s question about dealing with unaffirming family and faith.

Resources:

Set up your account on our new resource platform: https://my.queertheology.com/home
Unaffirming Friends and Family resource: https://my.queertheology.com/checkout/unaffirming-friends-and-family
Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

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It’s that time of year when people start thinking about setting goals and resolutions so Brian is taking this episode and discussing his thoughts on how we can take better care of ourselves and our communities! He invites you to reflect back on the year with some questions and reflections around loving yourself and loving your neighbor. Modern life is HARD and full of distractions so taking care of yourself and taking care of others needs to be an intentional priority.

Resources:

New resource platform: https://my.queertheology.com/home

Podcast series on Rituals for Resistance & Resilience:

https://www.queertheology.com/podcast/445/

https://www.queertheology.com/podcast/447/

https://www.queertheology.com/podcast/448/

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

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The post Learning To Love Yourself & Others Well appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Father Shay shares a sermon based on Matthew 21:33-46 for this episode. Has there ever been a time someone told you the truth about yourself that hurt you or you didn’t want to hear? Sometimes the truth can hurt or be hard to hear but we must learn to listen to the truth-tellers.

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTThe post Listening to the Truthtellers appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Worship music might be killing your soul, but attending an unaffirming church, reading material that is unaffirming, and hate-following accounts that are actively harmful against the LGBTQ community is killing your soul too! People often tell us that it’s hard to leave behind worship music and that it helps them feel connected to God, but we’re here to tell you that you kinda have to. Seriously, you’ll feel so much better and might even build some really life giving spiritual practices in the meantime.

We also answer a listener question: if the Bible can be wrong, does that mean that God can make mistakes too?

Resources:

Workshop: Digging the Details

Online Course: Journey Into the Bible

Book recommendations: https://bookshop.org/shop/queertheology

Want to have your question featured on an episode? Call or text us at (240)200-0922

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPTThe post Worship Music Is Killing Your Soul appeared first on Queer Theology.

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One of the things that comes up the most often in our work with people is that they have this feeling of loneliness, a feeling of not being connected to others or able to find a community. We very strongly feel that it’s important to be connected to a community, but what happens when you outgrow a community before finding a new one? We’re dedicating this episode to talking about making new friends and the importance of friendship and spiritual supporters! We got some practical tips for finding friends, deepening your friendships, and avoiding a few pitfalls in the process.

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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Thinking about your religion as only a personal relationship with God is dangerous to you and to others. There are so many ways claiming a personal connection to God can be powerful and life-giving, but you have to really examine if minimizing religions and rituals that come with other religions are actually a way to minimize communities and avoid accountability. In this episode, we talk about how important it is to have a personal connection to the Divine, but also how important it is to recognize the beauty of community that can come with religion and ritual practices.

Resources:

Podcast series on rituals:

Ep. 445: Rituals for Resistance and Resilience
Ep. 447: The Surprising Meaning Behind What We Have
Ep. 448: You Might Have More Rituals Than You Think
Ep. 449: Creating Your Own Rituals
Rituals for Resistance & Resilience on-demand workshop.

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Photo by Kaboompics .com

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We’re coming up on All Souls Day and this has us thinking about death, dying, and grief. What was your experience around death growing up? For us, it was all about celebrating the people who were now in heaven with little room for grieving. But the grief and loss was still very much there. We talk about the importance of rituals and community when it comes to grief. A supportive community and rituals can help you heal amidst loss and the good news is that these rituals do not have to be religious to be holy and healing!

Join us for an All Souls Worship Experience that comes when you join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

Podcast episode: Scary Things- The Great Snatch & The End of the World

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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It’s not enough to leave a church or faith that is harmful, you still have to unlearn the bad theology that was taught in those spaces. Why? Because that sh*t is going to keep coming up and having an impact on you and you’ll still be in a place of anger and fear! In this episode we get into the ways you can recognize where shame, anger, and fear are still coming up for you and what you can do next.. Psst- it has to do with learning HOW to read the Bible better!

We also answer a couple listener questions about the 1946 documentary film and how to get back to your Christian roots as an LGBTQ+ person of faith without returning to a harmful church.

Resources:

Want to have your question featured on the podcast? Send us a voicemail or text message at (240)200-0922 or submit through queertheology.com/listen
www.queertheology.com/resources
Digging the Details
Clobbering the Clobber Passages
Active Advocacy
Flip Your Faith waitlist
Book Recommendations at bookshop.org/shop/queertheology

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Photo by Tara Winstead

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

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Last week we talked all about harm reduction. But we don’t want you to just go from hurting to numb- we want you to get you all the way to thriving! And for this you really gotta lean in and parse out what exactly you want, what exactly you are feeling. Previous faith communities might have made you feel isolated and alone, but there may also have been moments of joy and love. What are those things? Can you name them and bring them out? It’s so important to recognize the nuance and how the places we came from that might have hurt us, can be complicated and multifaceted. You can reclaim some of that joy while also keeping strong boundaries in place. And, while we are talking about religion or churches that might have caused harm, this can be a really healthy practice you can apply beyond rebuilding a spiritual home.

Flip Your Faith – join the waitlist

Rituals for Resistance & Resilience

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

The post Tools For Rebuilding A Spiritual Home appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re getting into our feelings in this episode talking about that sense of homesickness for a place/home/church you can’t go back to. A place that might have caused you harm, a place you are still healing from. And this is a great reminder that no matter how much you are thriving, there might still be some hurt that you are harboring or wounds that need to be healed. Are you healed from the places that hurt you? What ARE those feelings that come up for you when you hear or think about a former faith home or family? We have some tips on how to figure out where you are at in this healing journey and where to start if you are still activated by your former faith life. Because your feelings are valid- but you deserve to thrive!

Click here for the Feelings List

Join the community at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Photo by Alexander Krivitskiy

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One thing we often hear is that people are so overwhelmed they can’t possibly start making changes or living their authentic life right now. But that is often EXACTLY the time to start! We’re not talking about doing something rash or unsafe, but taking one small first step. Sometimes you might not know what the next steps will be until you take that first step!

In this episode, we talk about how to notice if “not the right time” is “exactly the right time.” We got some questions to help you determine if now is the time to begin the move from surviving to thriving and we’re here to support you in all this. It can be scary to start, but it is SO worth it. We’re encouraging you to take that bold, brave, baby step into growth!

We put together a checklist of a few different exercises you could try out — that all take less than 5 minutes — and it’s available to Patreon supporters and Sanctuary Collective members. If you’re not already a member, you can sign up at Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Photo by Andrea Piacquadio

The post Moving From Surviving to Thriving appeared first on Queer Theology.

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As we head into the new season we are reflecting and setting intentions for the fall. Maybe it’s the years we spent in school, but September just kinda always feels like the beginning of the year in a way!

This summer we hosted a bunch of amazing guests, we held the Queerness Every Day Challenge, and we kicked off a cohort of Flip Your Faith. One of the things that we continually notice is how often people feel they are alone. Alone in a journey, alone in deconstruction, alone in their questions. And when they find that they are not alone, that there are others going through a similar journey, it is a transformative experience of community building! So we encourage you to set some intentions with us and start something small that will lead to a much bigger goal or practice.

Add your name to our email list at queertheology.com

Have a question for us? Send a voicemail or text at (240)200-0922

Add your name to the waitlist for the next cohort of Flip Your Faith: queertheology.com/waitlist

Send us an email at connect@queertheology.com

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Photo by Ece AK from Pexels

The post Start Small… but Start appeared first on Queer Theology.

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For the final episode of our Summer Guest Series we are joined by Cindy Wang Brandt. Cindy describes herself as ‘someone who wants to find interesting things and do them’ and, as we found in this interview, she definitely does that and has so much wisdom from her experiences!

Cindy Wang Brandt is an author, podcaster, and speaker. She hosts conferences and communities that help parents heal from religious trauma to raise children with healthy spirituality.

We discuss how religious trauma shows up and how it can be defined. We unpack what it means to go forward with healthy spirituality and parent in a way that is not harmful. Cindy talks about deconstructing and setting boundaries after leaving the evangelical church and how that has made her a more gentle parent to the child within herself, and to her own children. We often get questions about parenting and it is a real pleasure to get some expert advice and wisdom from Cindy. This is for parents, the children of parents, and those who are thinking of the possibility of being a parent- everyone!

Resources:

Website: https://cindywangbrandt.com/
Book: Parenting Forward, by Cindy Wang Brandt
Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/parenting-forward/id1403686245
Parenting Forward online community: https://cindywangbrandt.com/
Substack: https://substack.com/@cindywangbrandt
Facebook Group: Raising Children Unfundamentalist

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

The post Recovering from Religious Trauma with Cindy Wang Brandt appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Candice Marie Benbow is on the podcast this week talking about growing up in the Black Baptist Church, Red Lip Theology, and the beauty of faith in marginalized folks.

Candice is a multi-genre theologian who situates her work at the intersections of beauty, faith, feminism and culture, giving voice to Black women’s shared experiences of healing and journeying toward wholeness. Reimagining how faith can be a tool of liberation and transformation for women and girls, she challenges Black women to think critically about how they see God, themselves and the world. She is the author of “Red Lip Theology: For Church Girls Who’ve Considered Tithing to the Beauty Supply Store When Sunday Morning Isn’t Enough”.

Candice is all about seeing God as so much bigger than the small God we were taught. How some churches need better doctrine, need better theology, and to stop preaching a faith that continues divisions. Her messages about inclusivity and critical questions are inspiring and beautiful!

Resources:

“Red Lip Theology” by Candice Marie Benbow
Social: Twitter: @CandiceBenbow, IG: instagram.com/candicebenbow
Website: https://candicebenbow.com/

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

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We are talking with Candace Simpson on this episode of our Guest Series about a God who gives a damn with no room for cheap, easy theology!

Candace (she/they) is a sister, educator and preacher. She went to Trinity College and Union Theological Seminary and served as site coordinator for the Concord Freedom School for several years. It is their joy to design immersive participatory experiences where people can “be responsible for their own learning.” She is one of the associate ministers at Concord Baptist Church of Christ in Brooklyn, New York. Most recently, Minister Simpson served on a team of Faith and Justice Educators at a faith-based non-profit. She’s most interested in the possibilities (and limits) of Christian Education infrastructure as a form of political education.

We are loving this conversation about finding queerness in the Bible and using that to connect with faith in really beautiful ways. Candace talks about what keeps them Christian, sleep as spiritual practice, and the existential anxiety that comes with facing a world that can’t seem to recognize how close the possibility is of heaven on Earth. In her words, “Heaven is a revolution that must begin here on Earth.” I mean.. SO MUCH YES!!

Resources:

Fish Sandwich Heaven website: https://www.fishsandwichheaven.com/
Website: https://faithandleadership.com/authors/candace-simpson
Social: Instagram: @candycornball, Twitter: @CandyCornball
Rev. Dr. Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes: https://www.gabbycudjoewilkes.com/about
Rev. Dr. Prathia Hall: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Eden-Collected-Sermons-Prathia-ebook/dp/B09VJSJTJ7
Rev. Dr. Courtney Pace: https://bwim.info/this-is-what-a-minister-looks-like-courtney-pace/
Dr. James Hal Cone: https://liberationtheology.org/people-organizations/james-hal-cone-2/

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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It is such a privilege to have Bishop Karen Oliveto on the podcast for this guest series episode. She describes […]

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It. Is. HERE! Y’all, we are at our 500th podcast episode and it just so happens to also coincide with […]

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We’re so excited to invite y’all to join us for our Queerness Everyday Challenge! It’s a big ol’ celebration of […]

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We have Kate Boyd as our guest this week for a conversation that will really resonate with folks who have […]

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One prominent voice in the polyamory community is that of Kevin A. Patterson. Kevin is an active member of the […]

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This week we have an inspiring interview with Madison Morrigan as part of our continuing Summer Guest Series. Madison is […]

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If you’ve been here with us for a while, you’ll know how much we like to highlight context and historical […]

The post The Heart Of A Scholar with John Dominic Crossan appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re so excited to bring this discussion with former colleague and activist comrade, J Mase III for this episode of […]

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We’re breaking into our Guest Series to give you an update on what we’ve got going on behind the scenes […]

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We’re so honored to get the opportunity to have Rob Bell on for this episode of our guest series! Some […]

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Claire Willet is a powerful storyteller. Her plays are insightful and her Twitter threads impressive! Brian met Claire at an […]

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We’re pretty passionate about storytelling over here so it was a real pleasure to sit down with Adil Mansoor and […]

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Tamice Spencer-Helms is a force and we are excited to share this interview with you as part of our Guest […]

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It was such an honor and privilege for Shay to sit down with the creators of “Somebody Somewhere”, Hannah Bos […]

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Rev. Solomon Missouri’s bio is succinct: Twitter pastor, play cousin, problem, and preeminent marriage counselor to wayward athletes. His ministry […]

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We kick off this guest series with a returning guest, Rabbi Denise Eger, who is also joined by Rev. Neil Thomas. Rabbi Eger is the founding Rabbi at Congregation Kol-Ami (Brian’s synagogue!) and Rev. Neil Thomas is the Senior Pastor at Cathedral of Hope in Dallas. They have co-authored a book, 7 Principles for Living Bravely, that brings together universal truths of faith and wisdom, giving readers a comforting framework to make sense of it all with smart tips for getting through difficult periods of life. They give us some insight into what went into writing a book from two different religious traditions, ones that are often at odds with each other or pitted against each other in our society, and how their mutual friendship and respect has underscored the values of the book. Both Rabbi Eger and Rev. Thomas were on the front lines in their ministry work during the AIDS crisis of the 80s and recognized the need to write this book during the COVID pandemic. They talk about the resilience of the queer community, the beauty of working together in respect of each others’ religion, and the absolute importance of rest in a non-stop world.

Resources:

7 Principles for Living Bravely by Rabbi Denise Eger and Rev. Neil Thomas
Cathedral of Hope – Dallas
Rabbi Denise Eger at her website
Congregation Kol Ami
Ani Zonneveld Muslims for Progressive Values
Join the online community Sanctuary Collective

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Episode TranscriptAvailable soon

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We close our series on Galatians with chapter 6 and it seems to be a bit of an abrupt ending- especially when taken out of context! We really see how Paul’s words can be taken and used in a different way than he intended and we discuss how conservatives and evangelicals often use these verses to condemn marginalized folks. They create a list of what NOT to do, but Paul is much more on the side of progressive Christians than it seems! It’s important to not seed Paul to conservatives and purity culture, but also important to learn to read the Bible well so we can wrestle with these questions in a constructive way. What does it mean for us today to have a community of mutual responsibility? Instead of waiting for people to show up for you, are we also asking how we’re showing up for others? Paul’s instruction to the Galatians is to be led by faith, not by rules, and we want to embrace that while being mindful of the nuance and complexity of the world we live in today.

Resources:* Digging the Details on-demand workshop * Journey Into the Bible on demand course * Join the online community Sanctuary Collective

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Episode TranscriptThe post A Community of Mutual Responsibility: Galatians Chapter 6 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We enter chapter 5 in the middle of a thought from Paul because (reminder!) this is a continuous letter being interrupted by chapter breaks that was meant to be read as a whole. This chapter is heavy. It’s where we get many of those lists of dos and don’ts. And this dualistic language, fruits of the flesh vs. fruits of the spirit, can be really harmful when read and interpreted out of context. We gotta look at this from the perspective of Paul framing an argument, using examples, imploring new Christians to live into this community, and wrestling with the trauma that came from the religion that he left. We talk about Paul’s continuous dialogue about circumcision and why he’s really the worst kind of convert… But how we can’t get rid of him completely because he does have an important message in there!

Resources:* A Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies Teaches Us About The New Testament, Dr. Amy Jill Levine Podcast Episode * Digging the Details, on demand workshop * Journey Into the Bible, on demand course * Join the online community Sanctuary Collective

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Episode transcriptThe post What Leads To Justice? Galatians Chapter 5 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Chapter 4 of Paul’s letter to the Galatians is full of dense passages and obscure references. It’s especially important in this chapter to pay attention to who his audience is- Non-Jewish, new Christians. We talk about how Paul makes the point that scripture is allegory (he literally says don’t take it literally!) and how Jesus is separate from God (the gospels and Paul’s letters were written before the Nicene Creed determined the Trinity!). So what does this mean for us today? We discuss how we can make sure our spiritual practices are not a distraction from moving us towards justice and also the importance of sacred storytelling in creating some productive discomfort.

Resources:* Join the online community Sanctuary Collective. * Rob Bell’s video Everything is Spiritual * Rituals for Resistance & Resilience Workshop

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Episode TranscriptWill be available soon

The post Holy Discomfort and Scriptural Allegory: Galatians, Chapter 4 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are on chapter 3 of Galatians and here is where we get Paul talking about the Law and equality. But can (and does!) he live up to the things he says he believes in? Paul is making an intricate and intense argument in this letter and this is where he starts to diverge from Judaism, the religion that he has inherited. This brings up some questions about how we understand the Law versus Faith dichotomy, the importance of faith versus works, and who is included, but then later excluded, as equal members in the community. What is interesting for us, is that reading these texts and looking at context gives us a much different perspective on Paul’s message than what we were taught growing up. We’re essentially getting a peek into a new religion and new theology being formed in real time and as with all things human relating to spiritual, they can get messy!

Resources:* Join the online community Sanctuary Collective * Podcast Interview with Dr. Amy-Jill Levine * Digging the Details Workshop * Why Did Jesus Die?

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

The post Scripture Arguing With Itself: Galatians Ch. 3 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are on Chapter 2 of Galatians- but really we are just picking up on an interrupted thought in a letter Paul meant to be read as a whole. (Reminder: this was a letter meant to be read in full with the nuance of the time, reference to stories that would be well known, and to a specific group of people!) In this text, we get a glimpse into the messiness of the early Christian church… The messiness that continues today mostly because it IS complicated and people ARE going to have a human response when trying to make sense of their experiences. We look at what this argument means in regard to a “common table”. How can we keep our distinctive identities but create a space of welcome? It’s a 2000 year old question and we’ve got to find that common rallying point!

Resources mentioned in the episode:* Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Episode TranscriptTranscript will be available shortly

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We’re kicking off another series, this time on Galatians! It’s been a looooong time since both of us have read these texts. And part of that has to do with Paul.. We’ll talk about what’s going on with him.. But it’s important to note that although we are approaching this by a chapter per week, this was originally written as a letter and would have been read in its entirety. There’s interesting tidbits of history in this letter, some interesting claims by Paul that when examined in context of his time are a little out of the ordinary, and a lot of crabbiness on Paul’s part as he addresses this group of his converts that seem to have been easily swayed to other beliefs in his absence.

We’ll have a worksheet that goes along with this series like we did with the Matthew series as well! I’ll post it in the comments, feel free to respond here if you want to share what these prompts bring up for you!

The post What’s the Deal With Paul? Galatians Ch. 1 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Finding a community or creating new friendships can be hard and it can be actual work to move out of your comfort zone or into a new zone. But the benefit of finding or creating a community with people who support you, cheer for you, lift you up, listen to you, and care for you is so rewarding. We talk in this episode about the people in our lives who have made us feel that more was possible, that pushed us to expand our understanding, and enrich our lives. Things just get easier by being in a community and we want that for you!

We also answer some more questions submitted by listeners:

How can I start bringing a new message to my congregation as the pastor of a small church? Are they ready?
I am in the process of deconstruction, but what if it ends with me not being a Christian anymore? (Note: Brian has a major life update in this section!)
I feel like I’ve checked all the boxes for being queer and coming out. How do I bring spirituality into my sex life without thinking that God is creepily judging me?

Resources:* Join the online community Sanctuary Collective. * Faithful Sexuality – on demand course * Christianity & Polyamory – on demand course

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

The post The People Who Shape You (+ some Q&A) appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We talk a lot about the importance of community. Like, a. lot. And we do that because we both have benefited from the support a strong community can bring during times of questioning, transition, deconstruction, reconstruction, and evolving faith. It’s why we created our community, Sanctuary Collective. And we’re so amazed by what the folks inside Sanctuary Collective bring to the discussion and community everyday. It’s a place for celebration, conversation, hard questions, support, togetherness, and learning. We’d love to have you with us!

In this episode we answer a couple questions submitted to us: Does the Bible even matter for a Christian? What do I do with all of this knowledge I’ve gained around the Bible and Christianity?

Resources:Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

Bookshop.org/shop/queertheology for a reading list we put together.

Lord Prepare Me to Be a Sanctuary: song

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We’re at the final episode of our eight part series on Matthew! And here is where we come to crucifixion and resurrection.. The End… but really, the Beginning.

It’s important for us to call out and recognize in these texts the significant polemic against the Jewish leaders, even if most of Matthew’s audience still considered themselves to be Jewish. The context is crucial here for us to not continue the anti-semitic rhetoric that “the Jews killed Jesus”, but underline that the Roman Empire killed Jesus.

We have stories of the anointing of Jesus, the last supper, his betrayal, the trial, and subsequent punishment of death. From the story of the resurrection, we really look at who Jesus entrusted the continued work of discipleship.

It is not to perfect angels that this work is given to continue, but to the doubting, flawed, messy, complicated people. How can we embrace that same call to follow Jesus today?

Resources referenced in the episode:Journey Into The Bible

Rituals for Resistance & Resilience

Celebrating Jewish Empowerment & Teaching the Masses Via Tik-Tok with @milli_no_so_vanilli

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

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The post The End. Or Is It?: Matthew Chapters 26-28 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week, we’re talking about Holy Week! But Matthew’s Gospel is so dense, we only get through Monday and Tuesday!

This passage starts with Jesus’s triumphal entry into Jerusalem (often called Palm Sunday but spoiler alert: it didn’t happen on a Sunday!). We look at Jesus’s temple protest and some of the ways that story has fueled antisemitism (sometimes even unwittingly).

We talk about what it means that Jesus left Jerusalem that night, the wild story about the Withering Fig Tree, and more activity at the temple. And the (in)famous passage about sorting sheep from goats and are you going to burn in hell for eternity?!?!

There’s lot in this passage about the cost of discipleship, who Jesus is, why he’s here, what this all means, and what this passage asks of YOU here and now.

New Interpreters Commentary Volume VII

Scary Things Series, podcast episode

Sheep and Goats podcast episode

Black Pink

Abolition Sanctuary, Dr. Nikia Smith and her podcast interview: Abolition As Spiritual Practice

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Photo by Soul Winner’s For Christ

The post The Cost of Discipleship: Matthew Chapters 21-25 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are on part 6 of our series on Matthew and here is where Jesus finally goes to Jerusalem! But first we get the Transfiguration, a bunch of familiar sayings, and questions from Pharisees. We have healing stories, references to children, temple tax, and some harsh words from Jesus. For the Disciples to say at that time that ‘I want to be at the side of Jesus,’ means in Rome that ‘you are going to be executed by the state.’ We look at what it means in the modern world to ‘follow Jesus,’ how we need to decide our level of commitment, practice doing small things to push back and resist empire, so that when it comes time to confront oppression and harm, we are ready.

Digging the Details

Tricky Questions About Sex

Clobbering the Clobber Passages

Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg On Repentance and Repair Ep. 435

Jewish annotated New Testament Edited by Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Zvi Brettler

In the Margins: A Transgender Man’s Journey with Scripture by: Fr. Shannon TL Kearns

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Photo by Mathias Reding

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For part 5 of our series on Matthew, we look at the death of John the Baptist, some miracle stories, and Jesus’ call to treason. We see Jesus in these chapters take a political and active stance against Rome. Here is where the Disciples are tested and called to really follow the teachings of this new community. There is so much in these passages that relate to the time, to previous stories of the Israelites, to the inclusive nature of Jesus’ movement taking in outsiders. With this, we can really examine what it means for us today to “take up the cross” and follow Jesus and to consider the treasonous acts we may be called to participate in.

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

Digging the Details Workshop

Peter Staley

How to Survive a Plague

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Photo by mahdi rezaei onUnsplash

The post Called To Treason: Matthew Chapters 14-16 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are on part 4 of our series on Matthew and these chapters include ministry stories of Jesus and parables. Something we keep talking about is context. And it is so important to reiterate that context really matters to the richness and density of these texts, that this message was written to a community who were trying to learn how to live under empire. So the world coming to an end, apocalyptic references, and final judgment are understandable when the audience was a marginalized and oppressed people! This message is just as important today when talking about standing up for justice and truth, fighting back, and paying attention to the spaces and places that are oppressive under empire now.

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

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The post The Sky Is Falling: Matthew Chapters 10-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are on the 3rd episode in our series on Matthew and here is where we get a long sermon followed by some healing stories! These are well known and well used passages, there is so much to uncover here. We have the Sermon on the Mount, one of the longest recorded speeches by Jesus, and it is so rich in nuance when you look at the carefully composed discourse and deliberate structure that will become the core of Jesus’ teachings. We look at what that meant for that early Christian community, how the themes of healing were exposing the sickness caused by the Roman Empire, and what it looks like in our world today to put your faith into action.

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

Photo by Patricia McCarty

The post Jesus Changes Everything. Or Does He?: Matthew Chapters 5-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In the second episode of our series on Matthew we cover chapters 3 and 4 and there is so much richness and goodness here. We really see Jesus as intentionally political and there is a theme of politics throughout these texts. We dig into what it means to follow the Kingdom of Heaven/God when you are living under empire, what discipleship and following the teachings of Jesus looked like in the time of Matthew and what it means to us now. Reading the Bible doesn’t have to be boring when you start to tease out some of the interesting bits here like the political implications of the word “worship” and how the temptations of Jesus by Satan were directly connected to the view a marginalized group had of the Roman Empire at the time!

Links mentioned:

Rituals For Resistance & Resilience: https://www.queertheology.com/rituals/
Scary Things Podcast Series:
- Scary Things: The Great Snatch and the End of the World
- Scary Things: The Devil and His Many Names
- Scary Things: The Fiery Pit
- Scary Things: Will You End Up In Hell?
- Growing up Suburban Jewish & Finding Your Faith With Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg
- What’s The Deal With The Pigs?: Mark Week 2

Here are the synoptic gospel images side-by-side in columns for your reference. Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

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We’re back in the studio and recording an 8 week series on the Gospel of Matthew! Prepping for this series reminded both of us how much we love diving into scripture and pulling out those beautiful, sacred nuances that make it so wholly (holy?) fascinating across generations. In this episode, we start with chapters 1 and 2. Yes, that genealogy that you might have skipped over in anticipation of the more meaty bits has so. much. depth. Follow us as we go deep into this sacred scripture, what it means for us, and what it meant for people during the time of Jesus, the Magi and the birth of Jesus and how this was a threat to religious and political power.

Matthew and the Margins: A Sociopolitical And Religious Reading By: Warren Carter

Join the online community Sanctuary Collective.

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Photo by Jeswin Thomas

The post The Meaning of the Beginning: Matthew Chapters 1 & 2 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We close out this guest series with the incredibly talented Mary Lambert. She is not your typical triple-platinum-selling artist. She had never recorded music formally when she received a call from Macklemore and Ryan Lewis to collaborate on their marriage equality anthem, “Same Love.” Lambert has a successful solo career, stars in an animated series, co-hosts a podcast, is an author, and facilitates a virtual workshop on body image. We talk with her about her tough childhood, her relationship with faith and the church, and how all this has influenced her work as an artist and her journey to healing. She is lovely; she is relatable, and she is just so talented! Trigger warnings apply for sexual abuse and suicidality.

Find more of Mary Lambert here:

Web: https://marylambertsings.com/

Arlo the Alligator Boy

Everybody is a Babe Workshop

Podcast: The Manic Episodes

1946 Documentary

Book: Shame is an Ocean I Swim Across

Spoken Word Artists mentioned: Shira Erlichman, Andrea Gibson, Buddy Wakefield, Anis Mojgani

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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Cole Arthur-Riley joins us on the podcast for an inspiring and insightful conversation about her work as a writer and poet. Cole is the creator and writer of Black Liturgies, a project that integrates spiritual practice with Black emotion, Black literature, and the Black body. She is also the author of the NYT bestseller, This Here Flesh: Spirituality, Liberation, and the Stories that Make Us. As a storyteller, Cole takes us on a journey of liberation to heed our calling and connection to the Divine by staying true to who we are. Amen!

Book: This here Flesh: Spirituality, Liberation, and the Stories that Make Us

Black Liturgies

@colearthurriley

@blackliturgies

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Jonathan Merker joins us for this episode of our guest series to offer his thoughtful insight on some pretty heavy topics. Jonathan is not only one of Brian’s good friends but a licensed therapist whose counseling style is rooted in relationally analytic psychodynamic psychotherapy. This style of counseling is indicated for issues around relationships, families, identity, sexuality, grief, trauma, and depression. He talks with us about his experience as an ex-gay experience survivor, feelings of shame, abuse, and how recovery involves radical self acceptance. Trigger warnings for this episode apply: conversion therapy and childhood sexual abuse.

Web: https://www.gaymenscounselingalliance.com/jonathanmerker

IG: https://www.instagram.com/gaymenscounselingalliance/

Book mentioned:

Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction by Patrick Carnes

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The post Surviving & Thriving After Ex-Gay Experiences with Jonathan Merker, LMHC appeared first on Queer Theology.

Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction

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We’re so excited to bring you a joyously enthusiastic interview with Rev. Micah Bucey for this episode of our guest series. Micah is a radically progressive faith leader who writes, speaks, and extravagantly celebrates the intersections between expansive spirituality, radical social justice, and unfettered creativity. He currently serves as Minister at Judson Memorial Church and has a book available, The Tiny Book of Prayer. Tune in as Micah talks prophets and performance art, inviting in weird queer storytellers, and wandering in the wilderness.

Grab a copy of The Book Of Tiny Prayer: https://www.fordhampress.com/9780823299225/the-book-of-tiny-prayer/

Web: https://www.micahbucey.com/

FB: https://www.facebook.com/micah.bucey

IG: https://www.instagram.com/revmicahb/

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For this episode, we had the pleasure of talking with Rev. Angela Tyler-Williams about her work as an organizer, the overarching importance of Reproductive Justice, and a little history of how we even came to this place of arguing for or against the morality of abortion. Angela is Co-Director for Movement Building at SACRED, an alliance of religious leaders, organizers, academics, and congregations. She is a queer pastor ordained by the Presbyterian Church into her call to engage people of faith to speak publicly and politically in support of reproductive health, rights, and justice and LGBTQIA+ equality. She inspires us to use our power to create positive social change!⁠

IG and Twitter @revangelatw

TikTok @queerladychurch

https://www.sacreddignity.org/

@sacred_repro

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We have the authors of You Mean It Or Don’t: James Baldwin’s Radical Challenge, Jamie McGhee and Adam Hollowell on for our guest series this week. Jamie is a novelist, playwright, and essayist and Adam is an author, ethicist, and facilitator whose work addresses social inequality and promotes collective efforts for a more just world. We talk with them about their inspiration for this project during the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, how they came to work together as student and professor, and the radical challenge from Baldwin in the 60s and 70s that is still relevant today.

Resources:

PrayingwithJamesBaldwin.com

@prayingbaldwin social platforms

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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For this episode in our guest series, we have a fantastic conversation with Rev. Nikia Smith Robert Ph.D about her transformative work as an abolitionist. Dr. Robert founded Abolitionist Sanctuary, a nonprofit organization and faith-based abolitionist movement committed to helping churches use public policy and transformative justice strategies to advocate for a more just and equitable society beyond prisons, policing, and punishment. We get into liberation theology, the importance of working together as a community, abolition as religion and also an ethic, and lots of alliteration! Dr. Robert is inspiring, invigorating, and absolutely committed to rethinking the indoctrination of a carceral system.

Resources:

Emilie Townes: Womanist Ethic and the Cultural Production of Evil (book)

Traci C. West: Disruptive Christian Ethics: Where Racism and Women’s Lives Matter (book)

Penitence, Plantation and the Penitentiary Harvard Divinity School Journal article

https://nikiasrobert.com/

If you enjoyed our interview with Rev. Dr. Nikia Smith Robert and want to support the work of Abolitionist Sanctuary, you can do so with a donation below. We’re collecting donations from podcast listeners to pass along to her to support her work.

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We’re so excited to welcome back Kaya Oakes to the podcast to talk with us about gender expectations, feminism, her choice to remain Catholic, and why we need to cast off harmful but accepted societal expectations. Oakes is the author of five books, most recently including The Defiant Middle: How Women Claim Life’s In Betweens to Remake the World. Tune in as we talk about the women of her book, the idea of God and big dick energy, finding the feminine in unexpected places, and starting a gender revolution.

Listen to The Nones Are All Right: An interview with Kaya Oakes: https://www.queertheology.com/podcast/122/

Find more of Kaya Oakes at:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/kayaoakes

Website: https://www.oakestown.org/

Grab a copy of The Defiant Middle on Amazon

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology.

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The Defiant Middle: How Women Claim Life's In-Betweens to Remake the World

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It was a real treat for us to sit down with the Rev. Jacqui Lewis, Ph.D – she just radiates […]

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Taj M. Smith sat down with us for an uplifting conversation on deconstruction, redefining leadership, and how the storytelling of […]

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It was so great to chat with Bishop David C. Strong in this episode of our Winter Guest series about […]

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For this episode of our guest series, we’re honored and humbled to sit down with Rabbi Denise L. Eger. Rabbi […]

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We’re so excited to kick off a winter guest series with an amazing line up of insightful and inspiring interviews. […]

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Welcome to another Q&A episode for the third quarter of 2022! Tune in as we answer a selection of questions […]

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Welcome to another Q&A episode for the third quarter of 2022! Tune in as we answer a selection of questions […]

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Welcome to another Q&A episode for the third quarter of 2022! Tune in as we answer a selection of questions […]

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For this episode, we are going to turn the interview mic on each other to share a little bit more […]

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For this episode, we are going to turn the interview mic on each other to share a little bit more […]

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For this episode, we are going to turn the interview mic on each other to share a little bit more […]

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We’ve been doing this podcast for 9 years now, so we wanted to spend some time talking about how we […]

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We’ve been doing this podcast for 9 years now, so we wanted to spend some time talking about how we […]

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We’ve been doing this podcast for 9 years now, so we wanted to spend some time talking about how we […]

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Do you still have questions about sex, relationships, and the Bible? We get it. And we’ve heard them all over […]

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Do you still have questions about sex, relationships, and the Bible? We get it. And we’ve heard them all over […]

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Do you still have questions about sex, relationships, and the Bible? We get it. And we’ve heard them all over […]

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For this two-part miniseries on Sex and Relationships, we’re kicking off this discussion by asking: what are the messages you […]

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For this two-part miniseries on Sex and Relationships, we’re kicking off this discussion by asking: what are the messages you […]

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For this two-part miniseries on Sex and Relationships, we’re kicking off this discussion by asking: what are the messages you […]

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This week’s episode is for the allies, specifically for all of those allies who want to be better advocates for […]

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This week’s episode is for the allies, specifically for all of those allies who want to be better advocates for […]

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This week’s episode is for the allies, specifically for all of those allies who want to be better advocates for […]

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This two episode mini-series is going to focus on how to be an active (and effective!) ally. In this first […]

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This two episode mini-series is going to focus on how to be an active (and effective!) ally. In this first […]

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This two episode mini-series is going to focus on how to be an active (and effective!) ally. In this first […]

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Last episode, we talked about the different ways to define calling and in this episode, we’re getting into the nitty […]

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Last episode, we talked about the different ways to define calling and in this episode, we’re getting into the nitty […]

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Last episode, we talked about the different ways to define calling and in this episode, we’re getting into the nitty […]

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For the next two episodes, we’re taking you on a miniseries about calling, leadership, and seminary. How do you know […]

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For our fourth and final episode in this series, we talk about the importance of moving from theory into practice […]

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There is no rule that every ritual needs to be old or a traditional Christian one performed in a church. […]

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We dive into a few of the rituals that already exist in the Christian church for this episode: Baptism, Communion/the […]

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It’s the official launch day for Fr. Shay’s book, In The Margins: A Transgender Man’s Journey With Scripture, and to […]

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Welcome to our new four part series on rituals! What are rituals? How can we use them for resistance? How […]

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It’s time for another Q&A episode where Brian and Fr. Shay answers a selection of burning questions submitted by our […]

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As we close this series on affirming parenting, we had the opportunity to talk with three different parents and get […]

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This episode is all about the simple actions parents can take to show their affirmation. We encourage you to have […]

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How can cis-straight parents be a better ally, offer more support, and be a better parent to kids who are […]

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We’re kicking off a new podcast series all about parents and parenting! While we may not be parents ourselves, we […]

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As we end this series of folks who have been moved by their faith to action, we share our own […]

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For the second interview in our Angelic Troublemakers series, we had the pleasure of speaking with activist, author, and recent […]

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In this episode, we get the pleasure of talking with a remarkable and influential Angelic Troublemaker of our time: Rev. […]

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“Power concedes nothing without demand” Frederick Douglass Happy Pride!! This month our series will focus on Angelic Troublemakers- folks who […]

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To close out our Jewish Leaders series, we have an inspiring interview with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg. We cover a wide […]

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For our third episode of our Jewish Leaders series, we are excited to talk with Millie, more well known as […]

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For this episode, we chat with Enzi Tanner (he/him/his), a trans, disabled, Black American, Jew living in Minneapolis. Enzi is […]

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For the month of May, we are starting a new series in which we interview Jewish Leaders. To kick us […]

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Welcome to another Q & A episode for the second quarter of the year 2022. We hope you are enjoying […]

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In the last episode of the Gospel of Mark series, Fr. Shay and Brian dive deeper into the story of […]

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Welcome to the third week of diving deeper into the Gospel of Mark. In this episode, Brian and Fr. Shay […]

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Binding the Strong Man: A Political Reading of Mark's Story of Jesus

The Disabled God: Toward a Liberatory Theology of Disability

Unclean: Meditations on Purity, Hospitality, and Mortality

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Welcome to another episode of the Queer Theology podcast! This week, we dive deeper into 3 passages from the Gospel […]

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We know you’re enjoying these little series that we put out each week, so we’re here with another one! This […]

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Welcome to the last episode of the Scary Things We Were Taught in Church series. If you have listened to […]

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Welcome to another episode about scary things you might have been taught at church—this time, let’s talk about hell. What […]

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What was your upbringing regarding your belief in Satan or the Devil? How were you taught (or scared) growing up […]

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It’s week one of another interesting series for you all! This time we’re talking all about end times, the rapture, […]

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Welcome to part three of the Deconstruction and Reconstruction series. In this episode, we talk about reconstruction and the importance […]

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In this week’s episode, we continue what we started last week on Deconstruction and Reconstruction. What do you do when […]

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Over the next few weeks, we will be talking about Deconstruction & Reconstruction which we know a lot of you […]

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Color of Violence: The INCITE! Anthology

Pedagogy of the Oppressed: 50th Anniversary Edition

The Irresistible Revolution, Updated and Expanded: Living as an Ordinary Radical

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Welcome to a brand new episode of The QueerTheology Podcast with your hosts Brian and Fr. Shay. If you are […]

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This is the last guest episode of this series! We’ve loved doing this series and appreciate you as our listeners. […]

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Rev. Dr. Pamela Lightsey has a stellar history as a senior administrator and scholar in higher education. She currently serves […]

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With his band Everyday Sunday, Trey Pearson has sold hundreds of thousands of albums and amassed millions of streams. He’s […]

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The Triad Fam, aka the Simbalas, is a polyamorous family consisting of 3 adults who are madly in love with […]

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Amir Yass is an LGBTQ activist and regularly hosts panels at the LA LGBT center battling transphobia, femme bashing, body […]

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This week, we have Emmy Kegler as our guest. Emmy is a pastor, author, and speaker called to ministry at […]

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This week, we have Rev. Dr. Justin Sabia-Tanis who is an assistant professor and director of the Social Transformation program […]

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Trans-Gender: Theology, Ministry, and Communities of Faith

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This week’s guest episode is with Jess Grace Garcia (she/they) who is a co-founder of Q Worship Collective, Co-Host of […]

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In this week’s guest series episode, we have the Gottesman Chair in English at Yeshiva University, Joy Ladin. She became […]

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This week, we have Alicia T. Crosby (she/hers), a justice educator, activist, and minister whose work addresses the spiritual, systemic, […]

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In this week’s guest episode, we have Trans singer and songwriter Namoli Brennet on the podcast. Her music has been […]

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In this episode, we have one of Brian’s oldest friends, Asher Kolieboi, and he’s got an inspiring list of accomplishments. […]

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Welcome to the first episode of the guest series that we will be putting out over the next couple of […]

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In this week’s lectionary podcast, we answer another listener’s question about unpacking shame. We checked our resources to see what […]

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We answer another question from Tumblr about hell, what happens after we die, and the fear and anxiety that surrounds […]

The post Don’t You Know That You Don’t Belong To Yourself? – 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we respond to an anonymous question from Tumblr asking for a queer-friendly Bible version that they can […]

The post Movement Is Messy – Mark 10:35-45 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week we received more of a comment from a Tumblr follower who wanted to say thanks for our article […]

The post Get A Little Taste of Eternal Life – Mark 10:17-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we answer another anonymous question from a Tumblr follower who used to veil a lot before knowing […]

The post Mythology vs. History – Genesis 2:18-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we answer another anonymous question from Tumblr about the Christian perspective of abortion. “I only ever heard […]

The post To Disrupt the People is To Disrupt God – Mark 9:38-50 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today, we answer a question from Tumblr that is filled with hopelessness and exhaustion. Coming from a lesbian and Black […]

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In this episode, we answer a question from Tumblr needing help finding proof that they can share with their mother. […]

The post Take Your Time To Figure Out Who You Are First – James 3:1-12 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are back from the Summer Series and we hope you enjoyed the throwback of some of our (and our […]

The post Do You Have a Good Reputation? – Proverbs 22:1-2, 8-9, 22-23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this exciting episode, Brian and Fr. Shay interview Elle Dowd, author of the kick-ass book Baptized in Tear Gas. […]

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And just like that our Summer Series has ended and we are ending it with the most popular episode from […]

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We are only a few episodes away from the end of this year’s Summer Series and today, we queer the […]

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This Summer Series of the podcast is from one of our long-time listeners, Morgan. She shares why this episode is […]

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Here’s another super popular episode in which Brian answers a listener question about Romans 1 (and anti-gay interpretations of the […]

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This week’s episode is a favorite of one of our podcast associate producers, Bishop Celena Spain. The scripture passage talks […]

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Here’s another great throwback episode and one that’s still one of the most downloaded! In this episode, we take a […]

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For this week’s episode, it’s another one of Brian’s favorites! The prophet Amos has some harsh words for religious festivals […]

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In today’s episode, we listen to one of Fr. Shay’s favorites which was published 8 years ago. This is a […]

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For the 3rd installation of our 2021 Summer Series, we have an episode that’s a request from one of our […]

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For this week’s Summer Series Favorites episode, Brian chose an episode from 7 years ago. This Palm Sunday episode had […]

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For our very first Summer Series Favorites episode, Fr. Shay chose one from 2018 where Jesus tells his followers to […]

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In last week’s episode, Brian shared his first experiences of what set his queer journey into motion. He also shared […]

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A few weeks ago, Fr. Shay shared with us how his conservative upbringing impacted his faith and sexuality and how […]

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This week’s episode will revolve around the text from Ezekiel 37:1-14. Before going into the text and the sermon, Brian […]

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For the past few weeks, I (Fr. Shay) have been sharing my story through articles on the website and we […]

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We received another question about polyamory, and we’re happy to be getting more and more of these types of questions […]

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Building Open Relationships: Your hands on guide to swinging, polyamory, and beyond!

Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help YouFind?and Keep?Love

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In today’s episode, we respond to a listener question: They ask us to elaborate on how we interpret a couple […]

The post Unhook From The Fear of Hell – 1 John 4:7-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today’s listener question is about “deeds of the flesh” which includes anger and sensuality, and how perplexing it is. “Is […]

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Welcome back to another episode! We hope you had a meaningful Holy Week amid the ongoing pandemic. Today we answer […]

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In this episode, we answer a listener question asking for a possible lead on a devotional specifically created for queer […]

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Wishing all our listeners a joyous Easter! We hope you celebrated the resurrection of Jesus the way that it was […]

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As we celebrate this year’s Holy Week in the safe confines of our bubbles, we will be sharing resources throughout […]

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It’s been a year since the pandemic shut the world and we’ve all been anxiously waiting for the curtains to […]

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In this episode, we share a quick 365-day reflection from when the lockdown started. How are things going and what […]

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In today’s episode, we answered a question from one of our Sanctuary Collective members about the Bible and how some […]

The post Queering the 10 Commandments – Exodus 20:1-17 appeared first on Queer Theology.

The Bible With and Without Jesus: How Jews and Christians Read the Same Stories Differently

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The question we received from Tumblr felt like it was created for Brian as he’s our resident expert on polyamory: […]

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In today’s episode, we answered a question from a listener about the Rapture and how we feel about it. “Do […]

The post Jesus, Suffering & Salvation – 1 Peter 3:18-22 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This episode is a little different because the question that we received from Tumblr is about a specific text and […]

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In this episode, we answer a question from a listener: Emma asks about the kingdom of God or heaven. It’s […]

The post God is Everywhere – Isaiah 40:21-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a question from one of our listeners about figuring out ways to come out as […]

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Today we answer an anonymous question from Tumblr about having to listen to their therapist go on about how being […]

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In today’s episode, we answer a listener question wondering about the concepts of sin and Hell, and how Christianity teaches […]

The post My Temple My Rules – 1 Corinthians 6:12-20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Happy New Year! We hope you had a lovely NYE celebration, hopefully, safe and at home. In today’s episode, we […]

The post Grow And Change – Acts 19:1-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer an anonymous reader question from Tumblr. The reader is a transfeminine nonbinary person who is […]

The post Body & Flesh Matters – John 1:1-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are taking a quick break from the lectionary to celebrate Christmas and New Year’s. In today’s episode, we share […]

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Today we answer a listener question about ways for affirming cishet adults to reach out to the LGBTQ+ community even […]

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In this episode, we answer a question from a listener and Sanctuary Collective member about money and how some churches, […]

The post What is Good & Right – 1 Thessalonians 5:16-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Queers The Word: A 40 Day Devotional for LGBTQ+ Christians

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Today’s question is from a Sanctuary Collective member who wanted to learn more about Revelation and its historical context. She […]

The post What Type of Ancestor Are You? – 2 Peter 3:8-15 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we received a reader question from Tumblr about the Bible not mentioning queer folks. “…if acting out […]

The post Wake Up and Pay Attention – Psalm 80:1-7, 17-19 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today, we answer a reader question from Tumblr who is trying to find peace with being gay. This reader is […]

The post Sheep and Goats – Matthew 25:31-46 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a listener question from Tumblr asking for book recommendations for their mom to read. While […]

The post Gender Expansive Leadership – Judges 4:1-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today we answer a listener question from someone who has recently reconnected with her faith. While she is building this […]

The post Wisdom Is She – Wisdom of Sol 6:12-20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a question sent through our email. This listener works in a homeless shelter where she […]

The post Tuning Fork – Revelation 7:9-17 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today we respond to a reader question: what’s the real deal with sexual ethics? They think that God is obsessed […]

The post Leviticus’ God – Leviticus 19:1-2, 15-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a question from a listener about Hillsong worship songs. Now if you’ve been listening to […]

The post It’s a Trap! – Matthew 22:15-22 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Happy National Coming Out Day! For those who haven’t come out yet, still deciding or about to, we will pray […]

The post Coming Out Day: A Comforting Word – Philippians 4:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today we answer a listener question about the pushback around the use of the word “queer” and how their pastors […]

The post Safety vs. Being Saved – Philippians 3:4-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a question from one of our listeners, “Why do LGBTQ individuals need to be the […]

The post The Uncomfortable Path to Healing – Exodus 17:1-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Happy Bisexuality Day!!! So to celebrate that, let’s start today’s episode by answering a listener question from a bi woman. […]

The post Is Your Anger a Good Thing? – Jonah 3:10-4:11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a reader question from Tumblr. He thinks that religions started out as anti-LGBT and over […]

The post Get Off The Hamster Wheel – Romans 14:1-12 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Once in a while, we have those off days/weeks when things don’t go according to plan and it’s alright. What’s […]

The post Queer Sacred Space #throwback appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We received a listener question via Twitter and it’s one that’s very timely with the unusual times we’re in right […]

The post The Power of Queer Community – Romans 12:9-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today is a very special podcast episode as we are joined by Indigo and Beatrice who share their personal stories […]

The post Blackness, Queerness & Following Christ with Indigo and Beatrice appeared first on Queer Theology.

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A reader asked us if there’s any truth to this statement from his favorite drama series Greenleaf, “The only way […]

The post What Is Our Salvation? – Isaiah 56:1, 6-8 & Romans 11:1-2a, 29-32 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a very interesting Tumblr question on why Christians continue to throw Leviticus verses and clobber […]

The post What Do You Dream Of? – Genesis 37:1-4, 12-28 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today’s listener question is something that we know a lot of people can relate to, but might be too afraid […]

The post Miracle or Mutual Aid – Matthew 14:13-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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A listener wants to know “How do you move past the difficulty of reconciling gender issues found in the Bible? […]

The post Learn & Change the World – 1 Kings 3:5-12 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Shadowshaper Legacy (The Shadowshaper Cypher)

Queer (In)Justice: The Criminalization of LGBT People in the United States (Queer Ideas/Queer Action)

Captive Genders: Trans Embodiment and the Prison Industrial Complex

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In your faith journey, when did you notice the Bible’s inaccuracies and contradictions? Did this somehow challenge your faith? Today […]

The post Step Into Fear, Be Brave – Romans 8:12-25 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a reader question from Tumblr regarding ways to talk about the Bible as communicative of […]

The post The Lamp, The Light, The Path – Psalm 119:105-112 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today we answer another Tumblr question on the types of questions to ask during Bible or Christian studies that will […]

The post The Bible is Sexy AF – Song of Solomon 2:8-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we respond to a reader from Tumblr about managing a long-distance relationship while living with conservative family […]

The post Responding To The Call – Jeremiah 28:5-9 & Matthew 10:40-42 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we answer a question from a Tumblr follower about finding a way to connect with God. For […]

The post Prophetic Troublemaking – Matthew 10:26-39 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we answer a question from a Tumblr follower about how the concept of being saved is uncomfortable. […]

The post Stand Firm and Be Saved – Matthew 9:35,10:8-23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Uprisings for Black Lives Matter continue across the country and around the world, after beginning last week in Minneapolis, where […]

The post Original Blessing, Not Sin – 2 Corinthians 13:11-13 & Matthew 28:16-20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We recorded this episode earlier in the week, before the murder of George Floyd by (now former) Minneapolis Police Officer […]

The post Christianity Checklist? – Acts 2:1-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Like most people who love music and art, we understand them as a “voice” or expression of our soul. Art […]

The post From Worship Songs to Protest Hymns – Psalm 68:1-10, 32-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we talk about very important topics like self-care and mental health as we answer an anonymous question […]

The post Your Inner Divinity – John 14:15-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This episode is filled with so much good stuff and we’re excited for you to dive in. We have a […]

The post Queerness is a Cornerstone – 1 Peter 2:2-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This episode is filled with so much good stuff and we’re excited for you to dive in. First off, we […]

The post Queerness is Caring – Acts 2:42-47 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a reader question about how certain ideas about what happened on the cross (what theology […]

The post Breaking the Bread – Luke 24:13-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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There is so much work that goes into reading the Bible from a queer lens, but why do we do […]

The post The Transformational Power of Queering Scripture – John 20:19-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Happy Easter, everyone. And while we are celebrating Easter very differently this year, we have hope that we can still […]

The post Women Take Center Stage – Matthew 28:1-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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There are times when we are faced with scriptures that don’t really make sense. It’s difficult to put two and […]

The post Jesus Gets Hangry – Mark 11:12-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a reader question regarding justifying your romantic or sexual desires through the scripture. Is having […]

The post The Humanity of Jesus – John 11:1-45 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Have you ever wondered how Queer Theology started? In today’s episode, we walk down memory lane as we answer a […]

The post Walking Through the Dark Valley – Psalm 23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a question from Forest on how to handle and cope with Christian friends who are […]

The post Safe in Stuckness – Exodus 17:1-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today, we talk about a question from a listener who wished to remain anonymous. We answer the question about being […]

The post When Jesus Came Out – Matthew 17:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s episode, we answer a question from Jesse who asked us what kind of historical context do we need […]

The post Knowledge Not Shame – Genesis 2:15-17; 3:1-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

The First Paul: Reclaiming the Radical Visionary Behind the Church's Conservative Icon

The Last Week: A Day-by-Day Account of Jesus's Final Week in Jerusalem

The First Christmas: What the Gospels Really Teach About Jesus's Birth

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In today’s episode, we answer a question from our listener – Charlie, who asked how to live as a gay […]

The post Crafty Myths and Inner Wisdom – 2 Peter 1:16-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode of the podcast, we respond to a listener question from Fee in Berlin who asked how LGBTQ […]

The post Jesus & the Male Gaze – Matthew 5:21-37 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This episode is special because we talk to Sarah, one of our Sanctuary Collective members. We talk about what it […]

The post Sex & Love with Sarah – 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s text, we look at a word from the prophet Micah! It’s a favorite passage of ours and […]

The post What Does God Require? – Micah 6:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s text, we look at Paul’s words to the church in Corinth where he stresses unity. Is unity […]

The post Unity In All? – 1 Corinthians 1:10-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s Gospel we explore Jesus’ invitation to “come and see” and how that might resonate with queer communities. […]

The post The Gospel of Queer Community – John 1:29-42 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Lumberjanes Vol. 1: Beware The Kitten Holy (1)

Pride: Celebrating Diversity & Community

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In this week’s episode, we dive into the unexpected Biblical foundation for queering theology. Reinterpreting scripture isn’t something that we […]

The post The Biblical Origins of Queer Theology – Isaiah 42:1-9, Matthew 3:13-17 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Happy New Year from the QueerTheology.com team! We’re excited to be back behind the mics and rolling out new episodes […]

The post New Year Goals, Sexual Resolutions, Trans Theology (and more!) appeared first on Queer Theology.

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As you may know by now, we’re taking a break this December to work on things behind the scenes. We […]

The post What Child Is This? Matthew 1:18-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This December, we are taking a break from the regular lectionary reading to recoup, regroup and redesign the website. We […]

The post Mary’s understanding of God – Luke 1:47-55 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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December is probably the busiest time of the year, but at Queer Theology, December 2019 is a time to work […]

The post Waiting on Advent – Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalm 146:5-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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As you all may know by now, Brian and Shay are taking December to regroup, redesign the website and prepare […]

The post Advent: What Are We Waiting For? appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Advent is starting and we share with you some ways that you can observe the season, even if you aren’t connected to a church or faith community. We also get into how Advent might be particularly resonant with LGBTQ folks and what the queer experience can add to the season. If you’re looking for a […]

The post 5 Ways to Observe Advent (and how queerness is part of that) appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Our podcast interview mini-series has come to an end and we had a blast sharing some listener stories with you. More’s coming (hopefully) if we can get the support we need over on Patreon. In this episode, Fr. Shay and Brian share some 2020 plans for Queer Theology, respond to a reader asking if it’s […]

The post Is it ok to lie? + Winter Is Coming appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today’s episode features one of the Sanctuary Collectives’ most active and loved member, Caryn Saxon. Brian and Caryn explore the intersections of queerness, singleness, and Quakerism. As 2019 draws to a close, we need your help to keep the podcast going into the new year. We’d love to produce longer episode, bring on more guests, […]

The post Finding God in Silence & Singleness, feat Caryn Saxon – John 15:12-14, Matthew 18:20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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It’s another exciting podcast as we feature another guest who has been a member of the Sanctuary Collective (since 2016!). This week, we have Brandon Beck who is an adult educator and trans student advocate from Central Texas. Listen on to hear about his journey and fight for a place to belong. We hope that […]

The post A Place to Belong feat Brandon Beck – Jonah 2:5-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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As a way to be more inclusive and expand these podcasts even more, we are going to feature conversations with Queer Theology podcast listeners. For the next couple of weeks, we will interview different folks and they will share with us their favorite Bible stories and their own journey. This week, we interviewed Indigo Rose […]

The post Divine in the Differences, feat Indigo Rose – Romans 1:24 – 2:8, 1 Corinthians 12:12-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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300 episodes. We can hardly believe it. In this week’s episode, we reflect on the past 6 years of QueerTheology.com, what the LGBTQ Christian space was like back then, how it’s changed, and what we’re looking forward to in the future. We give a queer take on each of our favorite Bible passages (of course!). […]

The post #300: LGBTQ Christian Progress – Matthew 7, Genesis 32:22-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s world where the poor stay poor, the oppressed stay oppressed, and the unjust are enabled to continue wreaking havoc, it is refreshing to hear Luke 18:1-8 where it shows us that God is just. May this passage inspire you to continue fighting the fight and always do what is good and just. Download […]

The post Embarrass Them Into the Kingdom – Luke 18:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In such a short yet beautiful scripture, we are reminded that life is full of uncertainty. That there will be obstacles and sacrifices along the way before we receive what was promised to us. All of these are very relatable points for us queer folks. On that same note, we keep the faith despite being […]

The post Settling Down & Surviving – Jeremiah 29:1, 4-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Oftentimes the LGBTQ community gets called out and shamed for our sexuality and the choices we make around it — enter, the clobber passages. Because of this, it’s very important that we know how to read the Bible and understand its context to protect ourselves and strengthen our faith. Download the transcript (PDF) In this […]

The post Gender, Shame, and Faith – 2 Timothy 1:1-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This is another special episode as we are going to read three different passages. Different, and yet they fit nicely together. Somehow these passages form a beautiful reminder that God is in our midst and is for us: the oppressed, the minority, and the marginalized. Download the transcript (PDF) This episode highlights: Who God is […]

The post Beautiful Reminder – Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16; Amos 6:1a, 4-7; Psalm 146 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today’s episode is a special one as we get a break from the usual Sunday lectionary readings. Fr. Shay and Brian answer some deep and riveting, queer-related questions. AND we are excited to announce that this episode holds a HUGE giveaway. Stay tuned to learn more! Download the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we dived […]

The post Q&A + Book Giveaway appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Day by day, the scripture reminds us to always find a way to reach out to others, be there for the underprivileged, and be present with the oppressed. It’s a blessing to be accepted, affirmed and be found, but equally (if not more) a blessing to find the lost and embrace them with love and […]

The post Being Found – Luke 15:1-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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When faced with tremendous pressure and issues in life, it sometimes becomes difficult to see past the pain, the anxiety and the stress. But luckily, we have been blessed to have the chance to choose life and choose who we surround ourselves with, in this life. Download the transcript (PDF) Today, we talked about: The […]

The post What does it mean to choose life? – Deuteronomy 30:15-20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Honoring marriage or a relationship is not only for straight relationships. More often than not, people who are in queer relationships take faithfulness even more seriously. This episode also shares how there are more important things to focus on in this world than to nit-pick other people’s relationships. Download the transcript (PDF) In this episode, […]

The post What It Means to Honor Marriage (and other important lessons) – Hebrews 13:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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When our need to help the poor, feed the hungry, and uphold the oppressed is strong, we sometimes forget that it’s okay to slow down a bit. To rest. To take care of one’s self. And this passage from Isaiah reminds us of that. Download the transcript (PDF) This episode talks about: A recap of […]

The post Take Care – Isaiah 58:9-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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It’s easy to misinterpret the scriptures, and even our so-called traditions and traditional ways of doing things can hinder proper understanding of the text. This episode highlights the importance of knowing historical and political context in order to truly understand the Bible. Download the transcript (PDF) This episode’s highlights: The importance of understanding historical and […]

The post Context Matters – Hebrews 11:29-12:2 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we look at… the importance of women in the Bible the way Jesus handles sexual scandal how and why queer people can see themselves in this passage Read the transcript (PDF) John 4:5-42 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to […]

The post God is in the Margins – John 4:5-42 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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As far back as we can remember, we were taught to read the Bible in a way that doesn’t always line up with what the passage actually says. Sometimes, people stop reading when they think that a particular part of the passage is enough to fit their “needs”. What’s worse is that some may take […]

The post Sexual Immorality – Colossians 3:1-11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Sodom and Gomorrah is one of the six or seven clobber verses that is commonly used to condemn homosexuality. We talk about what the verse really represents and how it is not about LGBTQ issues. When read using the correct lenses, it focuses on the injustice and oppression that is currently occurring in today’s world. […]

The post Sodom & Gomorrah – Genesis 18:20-32 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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People often call for the separation of state and religion, but in reality, we tread in the middle especially for LGBTQ+ Christians, every day. The scripture today calls for us to strengthen our faith while fighting for those who are oppressed. It calls for us to question the system and the politics that continue to […]

The post God Gets Pissed at Our Politics – Amos 8:1-12 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Remember how we were taught in church that in order for us to be good followers of God we simply need to follow what our priest or pastor tells us? That we need to do things exactly as what tradition dictates in order for us to be good in the eyes of our creator? In […]

The post Trust Yourself – Deuteronomy 30:9-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Have you ever felt exhausted and that the work that you do feels like it’s going nowhere? Or the things that you sacrifice don’t get the appreciation that you think it deserves? Yup, same here! But Galatians 6:1-16 reminds us that these efforts will pay off, if not today. It might sometimes feel like a […]

The post What really matters – Galatians 6:1-16 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This year’s Pride celebration is such an important one for queer people. Not only are we still fighting the good fight, but we are also remembering the Stonewall Riots that happened 50 years ago. We honor the strong and courageous queer folks behind that uprising and continue the work that they have started 5 decades […]

The post 50 Years of Stonewall – Pride 2019 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Depression is a difficult topic to discuss; while folks are (thankfully) talking about mental health more and more, there is still stigma even to this day. So it feels great to be able to see these issues explored in scripture. What’s better is that Psalm 42-43 tells us that we have the power to do […]

The post Depressed – Psalm 42-43 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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One of the reasons why it’s important for us to learn how to read the bible is so that we don’t miss the bigger picture. And Romans 5:1-5 is a perfect example of that. In this week’s passage, it talks about suffering gladly, and too often, it is taken quite literally. Listen on to hear […]

The post Holy Suffering – Romans 5:1-5 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Some Christians have misinterpreted that Jesus is the “new” God who will rule out the “Old Testament God.” That’s not what is happening here. But this gospel tells us that Jesus is the image of God and that we see God through Jesus… and Jesus brought receipts! In this episode, we explore what his message […]

The post Jesus Brought Receipts, You Can Too – John 14:8-17, 25-27 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The gospel is often perceived to tackle mostly spiritual or religious topics, but for today’s reading, it actually deals with real-life issues: slavery and economic justice. We love how this verse focuses a lot on the human side of the disciples of Jesus. That even those who were closest to Jesus, are still, human — […]

The post What Does it Mean to be Saved? – Acts 16:16-34 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In today’s reading, we hear that Jesus tells us that our physical self and our physical health is important to God, too! We also tackle the idea that sometimes we read the Scriptures quite literally, and how that can be a dangerous way of understanding what the Bible actually says. Read the transcript (PDF) Today […]

The post Jesus Heals (Literally!) – John 5:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Reminder: Christianity & Polyamory is back and registration is open. Registration closes on May 23. Learn more and signup here. This passage is low-hanging fruit when it comes to LGBTQ acceptance. It’s Peter’s vision where he comes to realize that nothing God has made clean should ever be called unclean. In this passage, he’s talking […]

The post God Is Still Speaking – Acts 11:1-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passage is beautiful and challenging and complicated and harsh and comforting and all of that is kinda like what it is to be queer and trans and read scripture. We explore the importance of those that have come before us and in what ways they live on (or don’t), offer up a helpful exercise […]

The post Those who came before us – Revelation 7:9-17 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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After two weeks of Easter Q&As (here & here), we are back to the lectionary! It’s really easy to get swept up in the moment of a movement — whether that’s for Jesus or justice (or both!). But at some point, the luster fades and the hard work begins. Then what? Are you really in […]

The post What happens when the excitement fades? – John 21:1-19 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Y’all submitted so many rich questions for our Easter Q&A episode and we couldn’t get to them all so we are doing a followup episode. In this episode, we respond to 2 questions on the same theme: Navigating a church that isn’t LGBT-affirming (or who might not be), and how that intersects with Easter Mentioned […]

The post Easter Q&A Part 2 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This year for Easter, we’re doing a Q&A episode to cover all things Holy Week and Easter. We really dig into a few amazing questions in this week’s episode. There were too many to get to all in one episode so we will be doing more Q&A episodes soon. Make sure you’re subscribed so that […]

The post Easter Q&A appeared first on Queer Theology.

Jesus the Forgiving Victim: Listening for the Unheard Voice - An Introduction to Christianity for Adults

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Palm Sunday is this Sunday and because this podcast follows the lectionary, we’ve looked at the same handful of verses this week each year over and over and over again. Why do we do it? What value is there in following the lectionary and how might we see a reflection of queerness in the lectionary […]

The post Easter Every Year – Why We Follow The Lectionary appeared first on Queer Theology.

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There’s so much in this passage that can related to queerness and LGBTQ+ Christians. What does it mean to be extraordinary in our service of God and the work of God? How can LGBTQ people related the bad faith questions asked by those who don’t care about it? In what ways is queerness inherently holy? […]

The post Extraordinary – John 12:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We are doing a special Q&A episode about Easter & Holy Week. Submit a question! Send it as an email to connect@queertheology.com or record an audio message here (or from the sidebar of any page on our website, including this one!). What happens when we re-encounter stories that we heard with different interpretations growing up? […]

The post The Extravagant Love of God – Luke 15:1-3, 11-32 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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If it feels like we’ve talked about this passage before … we haven’t! It’s just that social justice, taking care of people’s immediate needs, shows up over and over and over again in the Bible. If you’ve ever heard that you’re not really a Christian or that you’re “doing” Christianity “wrong” because of your progressive […]

The post All who are thirsty, come to the water – Isaiah 55:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The Church, where faith should thrive, too often kills — sometimes spiritually, sometimes literally — the very people working to keep the faith. LGBTQ, women, young people, people of color and others know this well. In this week’s episode, we explore Jesus’s thoughts on the relationship between prophets and religious centers. Referenced in this episode: […]

The post Prophets in our midst – Luke 13:31-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passage is the story of God’s people and how they relate to God. We see that they are instructed to start by remembering where they came from. It’s a reminder that all the writers of scripture had a place and a time and a family and a context. What were theirs? How is God […]

The post Who was scripture written for? – Deuteronomy 26:1-11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this passage, Paul is convinced that the world is ending within his lifetime and—spoiler alert—it doesn’t. Sometimes the writers of the Bible get things completely wrong. In this episode, we explore the implications of that for our faith and lives. 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 Listen, I’m telling you a secret: All of us won’t die, but […]

The post Sometimes the Bible is wrong – 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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“Turn the other cheek” is suuuch a “well known” passage but it’s so often quoted out of context. What else might Jesus be trying to teach us that we haven’t seen before? In this episode, Fr. Shay and Brian explore how this passage might inform activist work and even interpersonal dynamics. Referenced in this episode […]

The post Interpersonal Dynamics & Activist Strategies – Luke 6:27-38 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Jesus and Nonviolence: A Third Way (Facets)

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This passage is a reminder that God has an agenda — Jesus and the prophets proclaim a comforting message for some and a challenging message for others. In this episode, we peel back the flowery language that sometimes surrounds Jesus’s words and look at the heart of what he’s saying. Download the transcript (PDF) Luke […]

The post God has an agenda – Luke 6:17-26 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week, we have a special episode of the Queer Theology podcast: our first ever live episode! Brian was at the Q Christian Fellowship Conference in Chicago, IL a few weeks ago to speak about polyamory on a panel about Christian sexual ethics (the very first openly polyamorous speaker at QCF and the first time […]

The post LIVE from Q Christian Fellowship Conference with Sarah Ngu of Church Clarity – Acts 17:26-27 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week’s passage picks up where last week’s left off. We talk about the process of learning and growing and what it can be like to people and places from our past — how they can hold us back and how we can even end up holding them back. Read the transcript (PDF) Luke 4:21-30 […]

The post How to be a more effective prophet – Luke 4:21-30 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week’s Gospel reading opens with, “Many people have tried to tell the story of what God has done among us.” In this episode, we dig into what the Bible, what it is (and is not) trying to do, what Scripture meant in the time it was written, and what it might mean for us […]

The post The story of what God has done among us – Luke 1:1-4, 4:14-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Marriage as a metaphor for God’s relationship to us shows up again in this week’s lectionary reading from Isaiah. In this episode, we talk about the intersections of faith and sexuality, and how that plays out when it comes to marginalized people. In this episode Jesus is polyamorous (video) We expand on “What is it […]

The post Marriage Metaphors – Isaiah 62:1-5 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Referenced in this episode Picking a word of the year Setting spiritual resolutions Christianity & Polyamory resources Christianity & Polyamory course will reopen in early 2019 You can support this podcast on Patreon Brian will be speaking at the Q Christian Fellowship Conference – use discount code PODCAST19 for $10 off If there are any […]

The post Getting Personal + 2019 Preview appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this passage, the wise people encounter the baby Jesus and are so transformed by their encounter, that they return another way. In this episode, we explore how queerness can mirror that experience and how each can inform the other. Referenced in this episode: Brian’s article on LGBTQ activism + the wise people meeting Jesus […]

The post Activist Epiphanies – Matthew 2:1-12 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Another year is coming to a close and in this episode we share some of our end of year practices and how we prepare for a new year. Referenced in this episode How to pick a “Word of the Year” Photo by Ian Schneider

The post Closing out the year, preparing for the new year appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The Bible has a few accounts of Jesus’s birth and the differences in the stories, plus the context in which they were originally told, can tell us some important things about the life, ministry, and legacy of Jesus. In this episode, we explore the story of Jesus’s birth then and what it means for our […]

The post Jesus’s Birth: Then & Now appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Taking care of one another and acting kindly isn’t secondary to the gospel — it’s a central part of what it means to be baptized and “escape angry judgement.” We explore what that means for us as Christians and as LGBTQ people. If you want some support in your faith journey, you are invited to […]

The post How to escape angry judgement – Luke 3:7-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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When considering how LGBTQ people fit into Christianity, it’s tempting to fall back on questions of “Is it ok?” and get stuck in arguments of hermeneutics and exegesis (which are important!) but in doing so miss the forest for the trees. This passage offers us some guidance on how we might discern God’s will and […]

The post How do we know God’s will? – Philippians 1:9-11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This Sunday is “Christ the King” Sunday or “Reign of Christ” Sunday, depending on your church, and in today’s episode, we are talking about the “king” and “Lord” language used throughout the Christian scriptures and tradition to talk about Jesus. Why do we do that? What is it’s significant? And what are the political implications […]

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Transgender Day of Remembrance is a week away and in this podcast episode, we focus on three areas for LGBTQ Christians and straight, cisgender supporters (and churches as a body!) to get involved.

The post Transgender Day of Remembrance 2018 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passage reminds us that God has a particular care for people who are marginalized, vulnerable, disenfranchised, and oppressed. In this episode we dig into why that’s important and what that means for our lives and relationships. Jeremiah 31:7-9 This is what the Lord says: “Sing with joy for Jacob; shout for the foremost of […]

The post Your identity matters – Jeremiah 31:7-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passage is a sultry seduction and we do scripture a disservice when we try to “clean it up” and make it chaste. But it’s not necessarily fun and carefree. In this episode, we take a close look at sex and seduction. Ruth 3:1-5, 4:13-17 Naomi her mother-in-law said to her, “My daughter, shouldn’t I […]

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This episode is for the lectionary from October 21 — after recording this episode, Brian had a death in the family and was unable to publish it on schedule but we wanted you to hear it. Scripture is filled with folks wrestling with their place in their universe and their relationship with each other and that […]

The post Making Meaning – Job 38:1-7, 34-38 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In these two passages, we see that the “Old Testament God” and the “New Testament God” are one and the same. In Mark, Jesus is in conversation with his sacred text, the Hebrew Bible. Take a listen for some new insights that emerge when these passages are read together. Deuteronomy 6:1-9 Now these are the […]

The post The Greatest Command Is Old – Deuteronomy 6:1-9 & Mark 12:28-34 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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How do we relate to God? As Christian’s, we have a unique model for understanding the divine in the life and ministry of Jesus. In this episode, we clarify some misconceptions around what is “God’s word” and dive into the significance of the Christian message. Referenced in this episode: Polyamory & Christianity online workshop happening […]

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We’ve look at this text a few times before (here, here, and embedded below). This week, we look at this section of the creation narrative and focus in on a few important themes: choice the power of names the purpose of this story marriage, monogamy, and purity culture Read the transcript (PDF) We’re hosting an […]

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Read the transcript (PDF) Mark 9:38-50 John said to Jesus, “Teacher, we saw someone throwing demons out in your name, and we tried to stop him because he wasn’t following us.” Jesus replied, “Don’t stop him. No one who does powerful acts in my name can quickly turn around and curse me. Whoever isn’t against […]

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In this week’s episode, we take a break a from the lectionary to talk about queer sacred sites. A few weeks ago, Brian released a video about his experience on Fire Island and how he realized that it’s a sacred place. Fr. Shay talks about his holy experience at a small town gay bar. And […]

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Don’t write off this passage as being another silly, outdated exhortation to simply “not say bad words.” Rather, it’s an important reminder that words matter and that they have powerful effects. Read the transcript (PDF) Join Sanctuary Collective, our online community + premium resources Support the podcast by pledging monthly on Patreon James 3:1-12 My […]

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Read the transcript (PDF) Mark 7:24-37 Jesus left that place and went into the region of Tyre. He didn’t want anyone to know that he had entered a house, but he couldn’t hide. In fact, a woman whose young daughter was possessed by an unclean spirit heard about him right away. She came and fell […]

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We’re on summer vacation! The Queer Theology podcast has been “on air” for 4 years and over 200 episodes. All summer long, we’re releasing a throwback episode that looks at the upcoming week’s lectionary. Stay connected with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and inside of Sanctuary Collective. We’ll see you with new episodes in September! Jesus gets a little […]

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The post Wisdom is a Woman – Proverbs 9:1-6 #throwback appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The post It’s Okay to Not be Okay – 1 Kings 19:4-8 #throwback appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The post Use Your Gifts – Ephesians 4:1-16 #throwback appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The post Do the Easy Thing – 2 Kings 5:1-15 #throwback appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The post With His Body – Ephesians 2:11-22 #throwback appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re on summer vacation! The Queer Theology podcast has been “on air” for 4 years and over 200 episodes. All summer long, we’re releasing a throwback episode that looks at the upcoming week’s lectionary. Here’s your first one! This week Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a short (and rather random) passage from the book of […]

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This passage, where Jesus tells his followers to leave and shake the dust of their sandals if they encounter towns unwilling to listen to their message is one that we’ve talked about a few times in podcasts episodes and articles over the years. But there’s still new insight to be found which is why we’re […]

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Read the transcript (PDF) Referenced in the ep: Queer Theology resources 3-part video series on self-care even more self-care resources Psalm 130 I cry out to you from the depths, Lord— my Lord, listen to my voice! Let your ears pay close attention to my request for mercy! If you kept track of sins, Lord— […]

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What do the parables of Jesus about the Kingdom of God have to do with queer and trans organizing for justice? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about activism, patience, and justice work in this week’s podcast. Read the transcript (PDF) Mark 4:26-34 26 He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. […]

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Our second-ever throwback episode… this time as a 2nd, bonus episode for the week. This episode originally aired in 2015. If you enjoy the podcast, you can help us reach more people by leaving a review of the show on iTunes. Visit queertheology.com/review and it’ll take you there! This week Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a passage […]

The post Even When Your Family Doesn’t Get It: Mark 3:20-35 – Throwback appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This story is about a marginalized group of people finding a bit of liberation, then seeking to recreate some of the very systems they escaped, and in the process turning their back on God and oppressing themselves. In this week’s episode, we explain the meaning and significance of this story and explore what it might […]

The post When liberation turns into oppression – 1 Samuel 8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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LGBTQ people are intimately with pain, suffering, trauma, and death; it’s part of our collective history and for many of us, it’s part of our personal history too. This passage talks about how Christians “carry Jesus’ death around in our bodies” and that is something LGBTQ Christians are particularly suited to viscerally understand. In this […]

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This passage starts off talking about being born again” … what does that mean? And why must one be “born again” in order to enter the Kingdom of God? And what about Matthew 19 where Jesus says a rich person can’t enter the Kingdom of God and must sell everything and give it to the […]

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We’re trying something new with the Queer Theology Lectionary Podcast… our first ever throwback episode. We first released this episode on Ezekiel 4 years ago. It’s one of the texts for this week’s lectionary and we know many of you weren’t tuned in 4 years ago so we wanted to give you an opportunity to […]

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What does it take to be a happy person and lead a righteous life? We think there’s more than meets the eye when it comes to this psalm. Read the transcript (PDF) Psalm 1 The truly happy person doesn’t follow wicked advice, doesn’t stand on the road of sinners, and doesn’t sit with the disrespectful. […]

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Peter has a vision and realizes that the lines he drew around what was clean and unclean, pure and impure, in and out, needed to move. We see this again and again in the Hebrew and Christian scriptures. It’s a process that continues even to this day. Read the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we […]

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It’s easy to think of Christian doctrine as eternal and unchanging, but we see throughout Scripture that our understanding of God, our relationship to the divine, and our relationship with each other shift and grow. That happens over the course of Jesus’s ministry and even after, such as in this passage in Acts. In this […]

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In this episode, we take a look at what it means to be a follower of Jesus, as told by 1 John. The text tells us to love with action, not words. What does that mean? How does belief fit in with action? Is there a heart change involved too? Read the transcript (PDF) Links […]

The post This is his commandment… – 1 John 3:16-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we reflect on what we’ve learned from 2 months of looking at the politics of Jesus and look ahead to what we’ll be focusing on next: activism. How does our faith turn into praxis? How does the politics of Jesus motivate us into and guide our activism? Read the transcript (PDF) As […]

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When talking about deeply held religious beliefs, it’s only human for all sorts of emotions to dust up. If we’re going to grow as Christians and live into a healthy faith, we need to be able to examine our beliefs to make sure that they’re serving us and serving God. In this episode, we explore […]

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We’re smack in the middle of Holy Week and want to make sure you hear these two messages!

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Too often, government protects the already-powerful, rather than the vulnerable who need protection. This week, we take a look at the trial of Jesus and uncover the religious and the political meanings inherent in this story. If you’re interested in learning more about “why Jesus died,” we’re doing a webinar on atonement on Tuesday April […]

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Here are some highlights from this week’s episode: “They tried to bury us, they didn’t know we were seeds.” – poet Dinos Christianopoulos When you do what is right, it has repercussions that are so much bigger than you might live to see, and you do it anyway We’re reading The Last Week in Sanctuary […]

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The personal is political and everything is religious. In this episode, we begin to tease out the political implications of our spiritual conversions to following the way of Jesus. Read the transcript (PDF) There’s a lot to discover when it comes to the politics of Jesus, so we’ll be talking about it for the next […]

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In this episode, we look at the story of Jesus turning over tables in the temple, as told by John. Why did he do this, who exactly was he protesting, and what can his actions teach us about how we live our lives today? In the podcast, we mentioned that we’re reading The Last Week by Marcus Borg and […]

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This week, we tease out the tension between “living a good Christian life” as has been come to be defined by the white, straight, conservative status quo and the consequences of following Jesus’s message. We also look at “taking up your” cross and what that means. Following Christ is risky, but in the end, we […]

The post What will you give in exchange for your life? – Mark 8:31-38 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In Mark’s gospel, Jesus gets his understanding of himself and his mission confirmed by God… and then forced out into the wilderness. He is baptized into a movement by John the Baptist, who is then arrested. It’s tempting to see “figuring out” ourselves, our call, and our relationship with God as the goal, but in […]

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In this episode, we are challenged by 2 Corinthians 4:1-6 to inspect our faith, our lives, our churches, our communities, and our politics to see if it truly reflects the glory of God and Jesus Christ. Read the transcript (PDF) Show notes This is God’s good news This is my good news… Change your heart […]

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Paul is super passionate about spreading the gospel and so are we! Asking what our queerness can teach us about Christianity doesn’t taint Christianity, it unlocks a greater, more profound, more prophetic dimension that we might otherwise miss. Read the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we mention this year’s Synchroblog Harvey Milk’s “I’m here to recruit […]

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Fr. Shay recently wrote an article about why you should make spiritual resolutions and in this episode of the podcast, we respond to a reader question and dive into how you can go about doing that. Read the transcript (PDF) In this episode, we reference: Rob Bell’s What Is The Bible? Sanctuary Collective

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The Gospel of Mark — the earliest written of the gospels — jumps right into the action with the arrest of John the Baptist and the start of Jesus’s public ministry. He calls his first disciples and asks them to change their heart, change their life, and trust the good news. What did that mean […]

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Brian and Fr. Shay experience this passage in two different ways — and that’s ok! For some, this passage is comforting and for others this is creepy and overbearing. It’s a passage that’s been used against queer and trans people but also maybe has a poetic message that can connect you with King David and […]

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Happy New Year from Fr. Shay and Brian! In this week’s episode, we’re talking all about the start of the year and how to enter it with intention without setting a bunch of overwhelming resolutions. This might sound a bit “secular” but living with intention is important for our spiritual life as well, and we talk […]

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This week’s passage is part of Mary’s Magnificat — a badass hymn that shows how she understands God. Already, before Jesus is even born, we see the seeds of what will become his ministry planted and nurtured by his mother Mary. Holidays can be tough for LGBTQ folks with unaffirming families or churches. We […]

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This passage from Isaiah will become the opening thesis of Jesus’s ministry (as told in Luke 4). In it, we get a sense of God’s priorities (and what will become the priorities of Jesus as well). This is the work that we’re called to be part of. Read the transcript (PDF) Isaiah 61:1-4 The Lord […]

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The Gospel of Mark opens with a political statement and goes on to connect the ministry of Jesus to work that has come before. In this week’s podcast, we examine the context and implications of this gospel message and how that relates to our lives and work today. Read the transcript (PDF) In this episode, […]

The post John the Baptist & Building on Queer Activism – Mark 1:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We hold a few things in tension with this passage: the beauty of the poetry, the devastation of their situation; our identification with suffering, our disagreement with who is “at fault” here. We dive into it all! Read the transcript (PDF) Show Notes In this episode, we talk about… parallels between the ancient Hebrew community […]

The post Your oppression is not your fault – Isaiah 64:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passage in Matthew has some pretty harsh words about God separating out the sheep from the goats, and damning the latter to eternal fire. But who exactly are the goats? And what does one do to end up there? You may have been told that people who haven’t accepted Jesus are the ones damned to […]

The post Can you be anti-LGBTQ and a Christian? – Matthew 25:31-46 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week, we take a look at a few listener questions about the intersections of transgender identity and Christian faith. Do you have a question you’d like to see covered? Email connect@queertheology.com. Read the transcript (PDF)

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This passage from Amos is one of Brian’s all-time favorites. The prophet has some harsh words for religious festivals in the absence of justice and that’s a message that continues to be needed many millennia later. If you want another take on this passage, we looked at it a few years ago. Read the transcript […]

The post Faith & Justice – Amos 5:18-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This month we’re focusing on trans issues at Queer Theology. In this week’s episode, we talk about why that’s important. Read the transcript (PDF)

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Read the transcript (PDF) In this episode we talk about… Let’s get this started right: sex can be awesome! Questions we get about sex are second only to questions about “is it ok to LGBTQ” here at Queer Theology … we get them almost every single day In order to be your full, authentic self, […]

The post Why Should Christians Talk About Sex? appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we look at More snarky Jesus how we get the same few questions at Queer Theology, how that relates to this passage, and what that means for LGBTQ people how Jesus doesn’t really answer the question — and why that’s important Questions that LGBTQ people get from Christians and how we see […]

The post Don’t get trapped by anti-LGBTQ Christians – Matthew 22:15-22 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we take a look at the fallacy of the dichotomy between the “Old Testament God” and “New Testament God” who God’s feast and comfort is for a connection between verse 8 and a passage in Revelation the through-line we see in the Hebrew and Christian scriptures the political context which makes this […]

The post God’s Comfort – Isaiah 25:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we look at… Violence. in the Bible and in the lives of LGBTQ people seeing parallels between anti-LGBTQ Christians and LGBTQ people in this passage anti-LGBTQ teaching has real-world, violent consequences queer Christians are the cornerstone that the kingdom is built on! Queer people are a people of resilience and resurrection Read the […]

The post Queer Christians are the cornerstone of the Kingdom – Matthew 21:33-46 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week, we look at … how Jesus takes no shit! parallels between the conversation Jesus has with the elders and the conversations queer people are often asked to have with straight, cisgender Christians what it means for queer folks to guard ourselves and guard our hearts how to recognize when a question is […]

The post Jesus takes no sh*t – Matthew 21:23-27 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we look at… is this passage about when you say “the prayer” to accept Jesus and then get into heaven? the economic themes that run through the Hebrew and Christian scriptures God’s generosity God’s generosity extends beyond salvation, it also includes physical and economic well-being is salvation scarce? and where does its […]

The post The Generosity of God – Matthew 20:1-16 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, we talk about… this month our theme is “back to basics” of Christianity and of queer theology “The First Crack” how one of Brian’s religion professors (a rabbi) was pivotal in changing his understanding of the Bible (and this passage specifically) what are assumptions you’ve made about “what the Bible says” or […]

The post The Exodus didn’t happen. The Exodus is true. – Exodus 14:19-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode… this month at Queer Theology, we are going “back to the basics” of what it means to be Christian, what it means to be a queer person of faith, and what it means to queer theology Fr. Shay’s difficulty in finding resources for LGBTQ Christians who left conservative/fundamentalist Christianity but wanted to […]

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In this episode, we take a look at one of the lectionary readings for Sunday September 3. We dig into Romans 12:9-21 and talk about… how parts of this passage are pulled out of context and abused by some white Christians in response to white supremacists and Nazis marching on Charlottesville love is not a […]

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In this episode, we look at… the importance of women when they are named in the Bible how “compliments” can be laced with racism how queer people have used humor, campiness, and covert language to survive (and parallels to the story here) God working in the margins this story isn’t about the Israelites “transforming” Egypt […]

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In this episode we look at… LGBTQ Christians are told that our sexuality is dirty and defiling — Jesus disagrees Brian makes a blowjob joke ? What this passage might say about whether we should stay in unaffirming churches to try to “fix” them Matthew 10:14: “ If anyone will not welcome you or listen to […]

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In this episode, we talk about… the temptation to look for big signs from God how Elijah is going through a depressive episode in this passage, how that’s not often talked about, and how that contradicts what some of us our taught about faith & mental health the taxing demands of justice work (and how […]

The post A Depressed Prophet – 1 Kings 19:9-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week Brian and Shay talk Jacob wrestling with God. What is it about this story that is so meaningful to both of them? Why does the idea of wrestling with God matter? Listen in and then share your comments! Read the transcript (PDF)

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In this episode, we look at what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, according to Jesus’s parables how these parables can help us judge whether anti-LGBTQ theology is of God or not Jesus’s audience in his parables (and what that means for us today) what to make of the bit about “burning furnaces” that follows […]

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In this episode, we catch up on… what the Wild Goose Festival is how (un)affirming Wild Goose was in its first year and how things have changed since moving folks from unaffirming to being advocates for LGBTQ justice our workshop on “Queering the Gospel” Click here to get the worksheet Read the transcript (PDF)

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In this episode we talk about… We’re heading to Wild Goose Festival in Hot Springs, NC. If you’ll be there, come to our session “Queering The Gospel” at 10am on Saturday in The Landing. Session info here: wildgoosefestival.org/sessions17-78 Our theme for the month is “Reading the Bible Queerly” — look at for articles, a webinar, […]

The post Why you should read the Bible queerly appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode we look at… LGBTQ “Welcoming” churches who is responsible for making churches welcoming for LGBTQ people queer people are prophets! the divine right that all LGBTQ people have Read the transcript (PDF) Matthew 10:40-42 “Those who receive you are also receiving me, and those who receive me are receiving the one who […]

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In this episode we look at all things Pride! Shay’s struggles with LGBTQ Pride and Pride celebrations how “anti-pride” religious messages and internalized shame can get in the way of pride the lack of trans inclusion in many pride celebrations the resilience of LGBTQ+ people the history of police & pride parallels between Christianity and the queer […]

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In this episode, we talk about… how perseverance and hope can take on special meaning for queer and trans people the anniversary of the shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Florida the resilience of the LGBTQ community — we’ve been persecuted for so long but we are still here the tension between suffering producing character and also […]

The post LGBTQ Suffering & Pulse Shooting, one year later – Romans 5:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode we talk about… why the creation stories are a pet peeve of Brian’s how this passage sets the tone and expectations for the rest of the Bible (and what that means for queer Christians) How God uses language to create the importance of sabbath and rest how queer people are made in […]

The post LGBTQ People Are Made In God’s Image – Genesis 1:1 – 2:4 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode we talk about… different types of diversity within the queer community (and why that’s important) the importance of recognizing and celebrating different identities (it’s a “melting pot” not a “tossed salad”!) Read the transcript (PDF) 1 Corinthians 12:12-13 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form […]

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In this episode we look at… how to understand the resurrection Surprised by Hope by NT Wright what the resurrection might have meant for the earliest followers of Jesus echoes between resurrection and the queer community the importance of bodies Resources for a queer Holy Week Read the transcript (PDF)

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Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church

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In this episode, we talk about… how our experience of Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday is changed when we consider the events in between the historical context of Jesus’s ministry, Palm Sunday, the crucifixion, and resurrection echoes between Palm Sunday and LGBTQ Pride parades what happens when we nonviolently stand against power Roundup of resources […]

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In this episode, we look at… Brian’s doubts about resurrections miracles the historical context of the Gospel of John (and why it matters to this story) What the resurrection means to Shay (and why he really believes in it) What this passage reveals about what God thinks about death Parallels between the queer experience and resurrection […]

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In this episode, we talk about… our upcoming webinar on learning to read scripture from a queer perspective (register at queertheology.com/queerbible) different ways to read the Bible figuring out who we are in Bible stories Brian’s first experience of finding liberation in the Bible Read the transcript (PDF) P.S. if you want to read Walking Toward Resurrection, […]

The post Queering The Bible appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode we look at … the power that comes from leaving parallels between Abram’s descendants becoming a great nation and the LGBTQ community the ways in which queer people are a blessing to the world Get even more queering the Bible—and learn how to do it yourself!—inside Sanctuary Collective, our online community. Learn […]

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In this episode we look at… how this passage resonates with folks who have been in the closet a message of hope for those who feel shame the importance of naming our sins, of bringing are shame out into the light what sin is and what it isn’t what to do after your sins are forgiven […]

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In the coming year, we’re going to be hosting an interactive course on how to read the Bible through a queer lens to understand it more deeply (and faithfully, even!). This passage is one that we’ll look at more closely — and then give you the tools so that you can find your own queer […]

The post Transfiguration: Jesus Comes Out – Matthew 17:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode we look at… “This is a passage that every LGBTQ person — or any person considering being a sexual being — has heard before” How this passage has been used against LGBTQ people How this passage might give us hope in our current tumultuous political reality What does it mean that “your […]

The post What does it mean to be God’s temple? – 1 Corinthians 3:10-11, 16-23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode, Shay and Brian discuss this week’s reading from Deuteronomy and the hard truths to think about. God of the Old Testament is not all judgement and consequences for sin. In this week’s episode we discuss a life of community, healing, wholeness and the weight that can be lifted when we choose life. […]

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Sometimes it feels like what the Bible asks of us is disconnected from what religious culture asks of us. What does it mean to be a light to the nation? How do we act as God’s ambassadors in our world? Read the transcript (PDF) Photo by Jyrki Salmi

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Micah 6:1-8 Hear what the Lord is saying: Arise, lay out the lawsuit before the mountains; let the hills hear your voice! Hear, mountains, the lawsuit of the Lord! Hear, eternal foundations of the earth! The Lord has a lawsuit against his people; with Israel he will argue. “My people, what did I ever do […]

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We are back from our winter break and talking about what’s on tap for Queer Theology in 2017: it’s all about identity. In this episode, we talk about our identities and share information about this year’s synchroblog

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In this episode we reflect on Advent, Christmas, the changing season, and waiting for 2017. Plus, we share some of our Queer Theology plans for the new year!

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James 5:7-10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, you must be patient as you wait for the coming of the Lord. Consider the farmer who waits patiently for the coming of rain in the fall and spring, looking forward to the precious fruit of the earth. You also must wait patiently, strengthening your resolve, because the coming […]

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Sometimes Scripture comforts us, sometimes it convicts us, and sometimes it does both. In this episode, we look at what sort of king (or president) is God looking for and what role do WE have in doing the work of God? Read the transcript (PDF) To learn more about Sanctuary Collective, take a look at https://www.queertheology.com/sanctuary-collective/

The post Psalms, Kings, and Donald Trump – Psalm 72:1-7, 18-19 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week we take a break from the lectionary readings to focus on self care, why self care is important for LGBTQ Christians, some ways to get started taking care of yourself, and how self care fits into the season of Advent that we’re now in. Show Notes 8 Queer Tips to Get Through the Holidays […]

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This week, we take a break from the lectionary to talk about Transgender Day of Remembrance which is this Sunday, November 20. You can find some sermons, podcasts, and a toolkit over at queertheology.com/tdor

The post An important Transgender Day of Remembrance message for Christians appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this passage, Isaiah lays out God’s vision for a new Earth. How does it sound to you? And what is our role in ushering that I? Listen to our “A New Heaven and a New Earth” podcast episode on Revelation 21:1-6 Help us out by leaving a review on iTunes at queertheology.com/review Isaiah 65:17-25 Look! […]

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We hear often that “The Bible says X about marriage” and you know what? The Bible says allllll sorts of things of about marriage. In this passage, we learn of a marriage tradition that seems bizarre by today’s standards—and one that Jesus seems to agree with. What gives? What can this passage teach us about marriage? And […]

The post “The Bible says weird things about marriage” – Luke 20:27-38 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passage has some pretty harsh words for Sodom — but they aren’t what you might expect — and ends with a popular verse about red sins being washed white as snow… that also has a twist you haven’t heard about. Isaiah 1:10-18 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom; listen to […]

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This week, Brian takes a look at the essence of Christianity: is it all about getting into heaven? He weaves together his own experience, that of his friends, and passages from Scripture to lay out how he sees Jesus’s ministry and God’s kingdom. If you want to dive deeper into how LGBTQ genders and sexualities […]

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Show Notes We focus in “Every scripture is inspired by God” and look at what Scriptures exactly this passage is referring to Call out some intellectually dishonest ways this passage has been used We look at what it means for Scripture to be in inspired Other places we find inspiration How understanding what this passage really means about scripture […]

The post What does it mean to be inspired? – 2 Timothy 3:14 – 4:2 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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2 Timothy 2:8-13 Remember Jesus Christ, who was raised from the dead and descended from David. This is my good news. This is the reason I’m suffering to the point that I’m in prison like a common criminal. But God’s word cannot be imprisoned. This is why I endure everything for the sake of those […]

The post This is my good news … God’s word cannot be imprisoned – 2 Timothy 2:8-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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When you look at your life (and your work and your passions), what makes you come alive? where are you most useful and most of service? In what ways might you be holding yourself back and in what ways might God be inviting you to use your gifts to serve the world? That’s what we look […]

The post God did not give you a spirit of timidity! – 2 Timothy 1:6-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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On the one hand, we want to be happy with what we have and trust God to take care of us. And on the other hand, one day we will likely get old and need to have a plan for our retirement. How do we “live Biblically” when it comes to money without falling into platitudes? Show Notes […]

The post Don’t Worry Be Happy? – 1 Timothy 6:6-19 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In Luke 16, Jesus tells a parable about a dishonest account who ends up being praised by the master he swindled. We get some seemingly contradictory messages. What's up with that?

The post What the F*#k Do You Do with Money? Luke 16:1-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Sometimes what you think about God reveals something about what you think about yourself or the world around you. In this passage, a petulant God plans to rage destruction upon the Hebrew people but Moses gets God to change God’s mind. Huh? What might we learn about God—and ourselves—from that. Dive in with Brian and Fr. Shay and let’s unpack it […]

The post Changing God’s Mind – Exodus 32:7-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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For Brian’s last episode alone while Shay comes back from his speaking travels abroad, we dive way in and take a look at two passages (Jeremiah 18:1-11 & Philemon 1-21) PLUS closing out the episode with the Collect for Sunday. Read the transcript (PDF) Show Notes Leave a review for the Queer Lectionary podcast on iTunes. It really […]

The post You are not ruined – Jeremiah 18:1-11 & Philemon 1-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Sometimes Fr. Shay and I feel like we’re a bit of a broken record. I mean, how many times can we possibly talk about justice? Today’s lectionary text reminded Brian that we talk about many of the same themes and issues at Queer Theology because those issues come up OVER AND OVER AGAIN in the Bible. In this episode, […]

The post Psalm 68:4-7,10-11 – God’s Recurring Priorities appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We got an email recently asking how to understand Romans 1 and whether that passage means that it’s not ok to LGBTQ and Christian. They wrote, This for me is the hardest passage to wrap my head around. I understand with the other passages there are translation issues and so on but Romans seems pretty […]

The post How do you justify Romans? LGBT Clobber Passage appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passages seems full of contradictions: freedom in Christ but also controlling your desires. What does it mean to experience freedom in Christ and how might your desires lead you toward God’s will? Photo Credit by jeronimoooooooo

The post Love & Freedom – Galatians 5:1,13-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Two days after the massacre in Orlando at Pulse Nightclub, we’re still reeling as a community and looking to find ways to move forward in unity and toward justice. This is what is on our hearts. We’d love to hear from you. Suicide Prevention Lifeline – 800.273.8255 Trevor Project – 866.488.7386 Trans Lifeline – 877.565.8860 […]

The post “Go Off Script” – on the Orlando Massacre at Pulse Nightclub appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this passage, Paul boasts about his former life as an oppressor (and murderer) of Christians before becoming one himself—and a leader at that. What’s required of a person who has harmed a community? How do you go from being an oppressor to an ally or a leader? Dig in to those juicy questions with […]

The post How to go from oppressor to ally – Galatians 1:11-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Looking looking particularly at verses 6 – 10, Brian & Fr. Shay seek to figure out what’s REALLY from God and how to know what the true “Gospel” is. And, of course, what that means for queer and trans people. Show Notes Galatians 1:1-12 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but […]

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In this special episode of the Queer Theology podcast, we talk with the Rev Liz Edman, a lesbian priest and author of the new book Queer Virtue: What LGBTQ People Know About Life and Love and How It Can Revitalize Christianity. Buy Queer Virtue Amazon | inSpirit | Indie Bound

The post Queer Virtue: An interview with Rev Liz Edman appeared first on Queer Theology.

Queer Virtue: What LGBTQ People Know About Life and Love and How It Can Revitalize Christianity (Queer Action/ Queer Ideas)

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For the past three years, we’ve given an queer perspective on the Bible. So what did we learn from this weekly LGBTQ Bible study? Why is queering scripture important? And how can you be part of that? Take a listen to this week’s episode!

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Sometimes the rules are unjust and need to be broken. Queer people know that well. In this week’s episode, Fr. Shay and Brian explore the queer activist connections to this passage from Acts 5. Read Acts 5:27 – 41

The post Obey God – Acts 5:27-41 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Is there a place for doubt in the life of faith? The story of Doubting Thomas was a catalyst for Fr. Shay to find his queer self in Scripture. In this episode, we dig into Thomas’s doubt, coming into LGBT identities, and how to write ourselves into scripture.

The post Doubting Thomas – John 20:19-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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On Ash Wednesday, we proclaim “remember that you are dust, and to dust you shall return” but in this passage, we are told that we’re part of a new creation. How do we live in the tension of mortality and resurrection? Photo by MichaelTapp

The post Are you a new creation? – 1 Corinthians 5:17-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this passage, Moses is confronted with the voice of God coming from a burning bush. Did that REALLY happen, what might God be telling you, and how can you share that story with others? Read the transcript (PDF) Photo by thintruman

The post What’s your burning bush? Exodus 3:1-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this passage, Jesus gets a bit sassy as he insists on pressing forward with work despite death threats. Brian and Fr. Shay explore the queer implications. Photo by thetimeisnow2

The post Sassy Jesus Gets Sh*t Done – Luke 13:31-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week, we look at Jesus’s temptation in the desert and Paul’s writing in Romans about calling Jesus Lord to be saved. Is it about personal declarations of piety? Or is there something political going on there? Photo by sfkjr

The post Piety or Politics? – Romans 10:8-13 & Luke 4:1-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Isaiah tells the fantastical story of God asking whom God should send. There are angels and wings and flying and smoke and earthquakes! How might stories change YOUR world? That’s what we look at in this week’s queer lectionary podcast. Photo by schmollmolch

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In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about different types of gifts and how those gifting play out in community. What do different gifting teach us? How can this passage be applied to our relationships as well? Find out on this week’s episode! Photo by foghornleg90

The post Gifts for the Common Good – 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about different types of activism and which ones are acceptable/most useful. What does this passage say about how we should interact with the world? All that and more on this week’s podcast. Read the transcript (PDF) Photo by snakegirl productions

The post Different Types of Activism – Isaiah 42:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Happy New Year from the Queer Theology guys! In this week’s podcast we take a look at a poetic passage from the Gospel of John. What does this passage say to queer and transgender folks? How might it be a comfort and an encouragement to us? Check out Brian and Fr. Shay’s responses in the […]

The post The Light In Us: John 1:1-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay take on one super problematic passage. What do we do with a passage like this? How might we be able to read it differently? Queerly? Find out in this week’s episode! Are you dealing with family or friends who aren’t affirming or don’t respect your LGBTQ identity? Get our […]

The post Submit to What?? Colossians 3:12-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about how they’ve navigated difficult family situations and what self-care practices they find to be most helpful. They tackle tricky conversations with parents, navigating boundaries, and reveal a new resource from Queer Theology that just released. Learn more about An LGBTQ Christian Guide to Self-Care and […]

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about World AIDS Day. What are the implications for the church? What can we learn from people with HIV? All of this and more on this podcast. We made a shareable graphic for social media and a cover photo for Facebook. Click each image to get the full-size (or right-click and […]

The post The Body of Christ Has AIDS appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s podcast we announce our annual Queer Theology Synchroblog theme and how you can participate! This is one of the most popular things we do each year and each year it gets bigger and better! This year our theme is Sex and Bodies. Write an essay, share a story, make a video, or […]

The post Queer Theology Synchroblog 2015 Announcement appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week’s passage is all about justice. But what does this Psalm teach us about our images of God? What do we learn about the character of God? Find out by tuning in to this week’s podcast! Read the transcript (PDF) Photo by dying regime

The post What Kind of God? Psalm 146:7-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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On this All Saint’s Day, Brian and Fr. Shay tackle an oft quoted passage from the book of Revelation. How do we make sense of this passage? How do we understand the afterlife? All that and more on this week’s podcast. Photo by Stuck in Customs

The post A New Heaven and A New Earth: Revelation 21:1-6 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s lectionary podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about one of the healing narratives in Mark. What does the healing of a blind man have to do with queer and trans liberation? What can the reaction of the crowd teach us about what it means to be in solidarity? All this and more […]

The post Your Faith Has Made You Well: Mark 10:46-52 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s podcast we interview Kaya Oakes, author of the new book “The Nones Are All Right”. We talk about what it means to be religious, how we build community, and more. Check out this week’s special podcast.

The post The Nones Are All Right: an interview with Kaya Oakes appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the power of morning prayer and meditation. What does this Psalm teach us about beginning our day? How can we set good intentions for our lives? Listen in! Read the transcript (PDF) Photo by Nithi clicks

The post Make the Work of Our Hands Last: Psalm 90:12-17 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does it mean to be childlike? What can we learn from children in our worship spaces? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the meaning of children in this week’s podcast. Photo by Tom Maisey

The post Welcome the Children: Mark 10:2-16 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Talk about a mic drop! The author of James lays it all out in this week’s lectionary text. How does this text speak to queer and trans people? What do we do with texts that are at once comforting and challenging? We struggling through this passage together. Photo by Adib Roy

The post Weep and Moan: James 5:1-6 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about one of the “angry Psalms”. Can there be a space for anger in faith? What is the place for anger/rage? How does this Psalm speak to queer/trans people? All that and more in this week’s podcast! Read the transcript (PDF) Psalm 54 For the music […]

The post A Place for Anger: Psalm 54 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This passage from James takes on the idea that you can believe things without living them out. What good are intentions if actions don’t back them up? What does it mean to really live out your faith in the world? How is this passage both comforting and challenging at the same time? All this and […]

The post Faith Without Works Is Dead: James 2:14-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week’s lectionary passage sounds like it could have been written yesterday. With problems of favoritism still popping up in our churches and political movements, how do we move forward? In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about respectability, favoritism, and more. Photo by Beth

The post Who Do You Favor? // James 2:1-5 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What makes someone unclean? How does this passage about food relate to queer sex? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about being clean and what makes something clean or unclean.

The post Does Queer Sex Make You Unclean? – Mark 7:1-8,14-15, 21-23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Jesus gets a little snarky in this week’s Gospel reading and Brian and Fr. Shay respond. What happens when Jesus makes demands of the people following him? What does that have to do with us today? In this podcast we talk about solidarity, living on the margins, and more.

The post Does this offend you? – John 6:60-69 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Why does it matter that Wisdom is personified as a woman? What can we learn from this passage? Who have been the people who have spoken wisdom into your life? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about all of this and more. Photo by MjZ Photography

The post Wisdom is a Woman – Proverbs 9:1-6 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s passage Brian and Fr. Shay talk about admitting that you’re not okay and what it means to take care of yourself. What does self care look like? What are the messages we’ve been taught in our churches about mental health and depression? All that and more in this week’s podcast. Read the […]

The post It’s Okay to Not be Okay – 1 Kings 19:4-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What have you been taught about the things you like to do? About the ways to stand up for justice? Have you been discouraged or feeling like you have to be someone you are not? Then this is the podcast for you. Brian and Fr. Shay talk about using your gifts and doing what you […]

The post Use Your Gifts – Ephesians 4:1-16 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Why did we choose to focus on the lectionary for the podcast? What does it mean to queer the lectionary? How does the work of queering texts impact our daily lives? In this week’s podcast we take a meta look at why.

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In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the resonance of the phrase “with his body he broke down the barrier of the hatred that divided us.” Why does this phrase have so much meaning? What does it mean to break down the barriers with our bodies? Listen in now! Read the transcript […]

The post With His Body – Ephesians 2:11-22 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a short (and rather random) passage from the book of Amos. What does Amos’s response to being called a prophet have to teach us today? What does it mean to be a prophet in our own communities? All this and more on this week’s podcast. Read the transcript […]

The post I Am Not A Prophet – Amos 7:12-15 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this week’s lectionary text, Jesus gives his followers explicit instructions on what to do if they are not welcome in a place. What might the LGBTQ community learn from those instructions? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about welcome, inclusion, being unwanted, and more in this podcast. Photo by itchys

The post Shake It Off, Shake It Off – Mark 6:1-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week the lectionary gives us two stories of healing. What do we do with stories like this? What do they have to say to our modern context? How do they apply to the lives of queer and trans people? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about their reactions to these texts in this week’s podcast.

The post What Does Healing Look Like? Mark 5:21-43 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What is the meaning of Pride for queer and trans people? Is there a conflict between Christianity and the celebration of Pride? What about the corporate sponsorship of Pride? In this week’s podcast we’re talking all about Pride!

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a passage where Jesus struggles with his family. What can we learn from this passage? How does this relate to the struggles of queer and trans people? All this and more on this week’s podcast! Read Mark 3:20-35

The post Even When Your Family Doesn’t Get It: Mark 3:20-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does it mean for us to be children of God? How do we move past the fear of coming out and of hell and embrace a healthy faith? What could it do for us if we embraced a spirit of courage? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about what it means to be afraid and […]

The post God Did Not Give You A Spirit of Fear – Romans 8:14-17 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Today the church celebrates Pentecost. What does that have to do with Queer Theology and our growing community? And how might we dive deeper into community? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about all of this and tell you about a new initiative for support and growth. Learn more about Sanctuary Collective

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This is our 100th podcast! This week’s passage is all about LOVE! What does it mean when we say that God is love? What does that look like? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about where they see the love of God.

The post When Queer People Love Each Other, There God Is: 1 John 4:11-16 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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How can a story of visions, Gentiles, and baptism relate to the struggle for inclusion of LGBTQ folks? What does this passage teach us about God’s circle of welcome? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the story of Peter and Cornelius and what it might have to teach us about queer and transgender inclusion in […]

The post Nothing God Makes Is Unclean: Acts 10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does the story of Paul have to teach us about what it means to be in solidarity with marginalized people? What does it look like to do the work to be a supporter and advocate for queer and transgender folks? In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay look at a passage from Acts […]

The post What Does Solidarity Look Like? – Acts 9:26-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay talk about “the stone the builders rejected” and how that relates to queer and transgender people in the church. Where does salvation come from? Who has the good news? Could it be that good news comes from us? Photo by Jason Pier in DC

The post Queer People Bring Salvation: Acts 4:8-12 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the importance and complexity of the post-resurrection stories. What does it mean that Luke stresses the bodily-ness of Jesus’s resurrection? What do we do with these stories? Is there room for doubt here? All this and more on this week’s podcast.

The post Jesus’s Body Matters – Luke 22:35-48 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Have you ever been in a community where you felt really cared for? Where all your needs have been met? Where there was, truly, no needy among you? Is this just a dream or could it be reality? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about this famous passage from the book of Acts and how what […]

The post A Community of Care – Acts 4:32-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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John 20:1-9, Matthew 28:1-10 What does Easter mean to you? What does it mean for the Christian community today? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about their impressions of the Jesus story, especially as it relates to the resurrection.

The post An Empty Tomb? // Easter 2015 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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John 13:1-17, 31b-35, 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the origins of the Eucharist and the different traditions they grew up with. What does footwashing mean? How can we reframe the traditions of the bread and the cup? Listen in and then leave your comments on the show page.

The post Why Do We Do This? Maundy Thursday appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What stories have impacted your life? How can storytelling be a powerful tool for change in the world? Brian and Fr. Shay share about stories that have impacted their lives and about the power of telling their own stories. If you want to support the Kickstarter for Fr. Shay’s new company, you can go to […]

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What do we do with the violence and anger in a text like Psalm 137? Can anger be a good and holy emotion? How does this passage relate to the stereotype of the “sassy gay best friend”? All this and more as Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a complex text.

The post Your Sassy Gay BFF? – Psalm 137 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does Jesus turning over the tables in the Temple have to do with the modern protest movement in Ferguson? What is our definition of nonviolent activism? Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a complicated passage in this week’s podcast. Photo by Daniel Arauz

The post Bodies Are More Valuable Than Windows – John 2:13-25 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The post Jesus Comes Out – Mark 9:2-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does it mean to be God’s ambassadors? What are God’s priorities and what does it look like live those priorities out? Brian and Fr. Shay tackle the lectionary passage for Ash Wednesday and talk about what it means for us at Queer Theology.

The post We Are Christ’s Ambassadors – 2 Corinthians 5:20-6:2 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’re still dwelling on the New Year and what it means for us. In this week’s podcast Brian and Fr. Shay talk about forgetting the things that came before so you can focus on what’s new. We share stories about the shame we carry and how we’re leaving it behind. We also offer an exhortation […]

The post Behold I Am Doing Something New! Isaiah 43:18-19, 21-22, 24-25 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Why do we praise God? Often we are told to praise God because of power or might, but this week we read a Psalm that puts a different spin on why we praise God. Brian and Fr. Shay talk about this gentle and comforting passage.

The post God Is To Be Praised: Psalm 146:1-6 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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We’ve got another doozy of a passage this week, again from 1 Corinthians. What do we do with this section that says that marriage is a distraction from the things of God? Does this passage imply that queer sexuality is wrong or that celibacy is required for queer Christians? Brian and Fr. Shay tackle these […]

The post Marriage is a Distraction: 1 Corinthians 7:32-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay look at Jesus’ radicalizing moment and what that has to teach the modern Christian movement. What are the moments that you can look to in your own life that changed how you moved through the world? How have those moments continued to impact your life? Photo by Derek Purdy

The post After John Went To Jail: Mark 1:14-15 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What do we do with passages that talk about sexuality immorality? As queer and trans folks how do we reclaim passages that have been used against us? Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a passage that talks about sexual immorality and what we do with passages like this. Photo by sjon

The post Your Body Is A Temple: 1 Corinthians 6:13-15, 17-20 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay are kicking off a new year of the Reading Queerly podcast and Queer Theology by sharing some of their hopes and dreams for the new year. What did they love about 2014? What are they looking forward to in 2015? You can also share your goals in the comments!

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay talk about Advent and present the final podcast for 2014! What about this church season resonates? What does all of this waiting call us to do?

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It’s the third week of Advent and we’re talking about Mary! What can we learn from Mary? How did Mary influence the thinking of Jesus? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the power of Mary’s song and what it means for us today.

The post Mary, the Fierce Mother of God – Luke 1:46-48, 49-54 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the end times and what it means to be human. If the world is ending, what does that mean for us? What kind of people are we supposed to be? How do we make the most of the time we’ve been given? Photo by Gruenewiese86

The post What Kind Of Person Do You Want To Be? – 2 Peter 3:8-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Often queer and trans people are told that their experiences of faith are suspect because they are “biased”. This week Brian and Fr. Shay tackle this insidious talking point by look at what 1 Corinthians has to say about trusting your experience and gifts.

The post Trust Your Experiences – 1 Corinthians 1:3-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay talk about a well-known passage. Why are some folks so quick to push this passage aside? What does this text have to say about interfaith dialogue? All this and more!

The post Who Gets Eternal Life? – Matthew 25:31-46 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Almost a complete opposite of last week’s passage where God calls religious festivals trash; this week we see a passage all about prosperity and well-being. Can a passage like this be of any use to the queer community? Listen in and find out! Read the transcript (PDF)

The post God Wants You To Be Happy – Psalm 128:1-5 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Is there something inherently wrong with performative worship? What kind of worship is pleasing to God? How do we get people mobilized for justice work? Lots of questions in this week’s podcast about justice movements! Listen in!

The post Does God Really Hate Worship Bands? – Amos 5:18-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay record a special podcast for All Saints Day. What does the Sermon on the Mount have to do with sainthood? What is the value of honoring saints? And how is the view of Sainthood that’s presented in this passage different from the one we usually get. All that on this week’s […]

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the complexities of how we read Scripture, especially when we read messages about insiders and outsiders and God’s wrath and destruction. What is the point of passages like these? What can we learn from them? How do we read them? Listen in on this week’s podcast. Read the transcript […]

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay talk about finances, work, and money. What does it mean to have enough? What is our responsibility around money as queer people? As people of faith? What does it mean to be content? Let’s dig into these tough questions together.

The post Need and Plenty – Philippians 4:12-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week’s lectionary text is one of Jesus’ weird parables. Brian and Fr. Shay share their ideas on what it means for queer people to be the stones that the builders rejected. The Kingdom of God belongs to those who bear good fruit so what does that mean for the queer and trans community? Matthew […]

The post The Kingdom Is Ours – Matthew 21:33-43 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay go off book this week to talk about a theme that has been percolating a lot for them. What does survival mean for the queer and trans community? What would it look like to move past survival into thriving? We’re exploring this theme in several ways this month, so be sure […]

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A short little passage that packs a lot into a few verses. What do we do with Paul’s ambiguous messages around the body and his desire for death? Brian and Fr. Shay tackle the complexity this passage. Show Notes Spit & Spirit HOPE (DESPAIR) #FaithInTheFog If you’re thinking of hurting yourself, taking your own life, or […]

The post Paul’s Ambiguous Message – Philippians 1:20-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the difference between historical fact and truth. What does it mean for our faith if things like “The Exodus” aren’t historically factual? What particular gift do queer people have to offer in the realm of Biblical interpretation? All this and more on this week’s podcast. Read the transcript (PDF)

The post How Do You Know What Is True? – Exodus 14:19-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does it mean to love one another? What does it mean to stand in solidarity with one another? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about caring for one another and what it might mean to “let no debt remain.” Photo by Justin Lowery

The post Let No Debt Remain – Romans 13:8-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Do we feel alienated because of our queerness or because of God? What is it that compels us to stay in the church? Brian and Fr. Shay take on a tough passage from Jeremiah and interpret it with hope. Read the transcript (PDF) Photo by Johan J.Ingles-Le Nobel

The post Fire In Our Bones – Jeremiah 20:7-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay look at Romans 12:1-7. What does it mean to be a living sacrifice? How can we talk about and work for justice in the face of situations that feel overwhelming or far away? How can we look at all of this, especially in light of what is happening in […]

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the refugee crisis and immigration. How is immigration a queer and Christian issue? What does the Bible have to say about the plight of immigrants? What is the responsibility of the United States in the face of this current crisis? Photo by DryHundredFear

The post Is America A City On A Hill? – Isaiah 56:1, 6-8 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Do queer and transgender Christians have a reason to evangelize? What does it mean to share the Good News in our own context? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about what evangelism might mean for us today. Read the transcript (PDF)

The post Redefine The Missionary Position – Romans 10:5-15 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The podcast is back and we are looking at Matthew 14:13-21 and Isaiah 55:1-5. What do these passages have to teach the church about living into abundance? What is the vision here around food justice? What can the queer community teach the church? Brian and Fr. Shay share their thoughts on this week’s lectionary texts. […]

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For my day job I work at a mainline church with a mostly older, wealthy, white, congregation. It’s a place that has been good to me, but where I sometimes feel out of step. This year I was asked to be the guest preacher for our annual Pride Sunday. I don’t get to preach at […]

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What does it mean that God is on our side? How can this passage be a comfort to queer and trans* people of faith? Brian and Fr. Shay talk about persecution, feeling oppressed, and how this passage gives them hope.

The post God is On Our Side – Jeremiah 20:10-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The Genesis Creation story is often used to condemn queer folks for their sexuality and transgender people for their gender identities. In this week’s podcast Brian offers an imaginative retelling of the Genesis story and offers us a new window into how to be imaginative with the text. Read the transcript (PDF)

The post God Is Your Wingman – Genesis 1:1-2:4 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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It’s Pentecost 2014 and Brian and Fr. Shay are talking about dreaming dreams and having visions! What does this text have to say to our modern church and the modern queer and trans movement? How have our visions become narrow as we’ve seen success? How can we dream new dreams and new visions to create […]

The post Get A Bigger Vision – Acts 2:1-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay base an entire podcast on three verses. What in the world do these verses have to say to us today? How do we deal with our families and our queer identities? What do Mary and Jesus’ Brothers have to do with queer activism? All this and more on this […]

The post Mary Was With Them – Acts 1:12-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the Gospel reading for May 25th. What does it mean that a Comforter will come to us? How does this passage speak comfort to queer and transgender Christians? What does it mean to keep the commandments of Jesus? All this and more on this week’s podcast.

The post A Comforter Will Come – John 14:15-21 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about Peter’s altar call and what it has to say to queer and trans Christians today. What do we need to repent of? What does it mean that death no longer has a hold on us? What does all of this mean in our movement for liberation? Listen in!

The post Repent & Be Saved! – Acts 2:14-41 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about the disciples on the road to Emmaus who have an encounter with Jesus. What do we do with these post-resurrection stories? How do grapple with what is “true” and what is “real”? What can the encounter on the road to Emmaus teach us as queer and trans Christians today? […]

The post When the Work Begins – Luke 24:13-35 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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The Queer Lectionary Podcast turns ONE! Brian and Fr. Shay celebrate the one year anniversary of the podcast! What can the queer community learn from the early church in the book of Acts? What can the church learn from the queer community? We tackle a popular passage and share how we think it can be […]

The post And There Were No Needy Among Them – Acts 2:42-47 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Happy Easter! Brian and Fr. Shay queer the resurrection. What does it mean that Jesus first appears to women? How can we read this story as inspiration for queer and trans people? Tackle these questions and more on this week’s podcast! Photo Credit: Mike_tn

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What does the Palm Sunday story have in common with ACT UP and Queer Nation? How is Palm Sunday similar to political protest? Brian and Fr. Shay queer a familiar passage and talk about the implications for queer and trans organizing.

The post Jesus Steals a Donkey – Matthew 21:1-11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week Brian and Fr. Shay tackle a well known passage from Ezekiel. What does this text have to say about queer and trans bodies? How can we queer this passage? All this and more on this week’s podcast! Read the transcript (PDF) Ezekiel 37:1-14 The Lord’s power overcame me, and while I was in […]

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Brian and Fr. Shay talk about what it means to be Children of Light. How do we reclaim a text that people could say condemns queer and trans people? How does shining a light on our queerness alleviate shame? In this week’s podcast we queer and reclaim a text in a powerful way. Here’s the […]

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Brian and Fr. Shay tackle the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman. What does this story tell us about the Kingdom of God and the mission of Jesus? How do we push past a trite reading of the passage? This week’s podcast raises questions of inclusion, pushing boundaries, and preaching hard truths. John 4:5-42 […]

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Brian and Shay take a look at a comforting passage from the Psalms and share what it has meant to them on their own journey. Then they raise the question, “What might we be inspired to do if we believed God is on our side?” Read the transcript (PDF)

The post God Is On Our Side – Psalm 121 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay tackle the temptation of Jesus and what it means to us today. What do these temptations have to say to the church? Are the temptations personal or political? Does buying into the system protect us? All this and more on this week’s podcast.

The post The Temptation of Christ (and Us) – Matthew 4:1-11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about Jesus’ Transfiguration and what it means. If the Transfiguration is Jesus’ coming out moment, what comes next? How can the Transfiguration be read in a queer way?

The post Jesus Comes Out – Matthew 17:1-9 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does it mean to be God’s Temple? Is the way to honor God’s temple simply not smoking, drinking or having sex? Brian and Shay queer a popular passage from 1 Corinthians and show how it can be read in a whole new way. Photo by shrff14

The post God’s Temple – 1 Corinthians 3:16-23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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With this week’s podcast Brian and Shay pull back the curtain and reveal some of the inner motivations that led to the creation of Queer Theology and why they do things the way they do. What does it mean for theology to be “devotional”? What issues are “queer issues”? They tackle these questions and more. […]

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What does it mean to be the salt of the earth? Is it a good thing or a bad thing to be a “Christian in public”? Brian and Shay tackle these questions (and also recount their stories of “See You At the Pole”) in this week’s podcast. Photo by @Doug88888

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Brian and Shay tackle a passage from 1 Corinthians that they think has special relevance for the queer and transgender community. What does this passage have to say about queer and transgender people being used to do the work of God? How are our identities uniquely valuable in doing work for justice in the world?

The post The Low Class & Low Life Followers of God – 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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How is Jesus’ call to “come and follow” different from his call in last week’s passage to “come and see”? What does it mean to leave everything and follow Jesus? What does this call say to queer and transgender people in today’s world? Listen in to the conversation! Photo by Leo Hidalgo

The post Come & Follow – Matthew 4:12-23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay share what resonates with them in this passage from John. What does the call of Jesus to “come and see” have to do with queer theology? What does it mean for us as queer people to invite others to “come and see”? Photo by mugley

The post Come & See – John 1:29-42 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What does the baptism of Jesus have to say to queer and trans people of faith? What is the importance of having rituals to mark changes in life situation? What new rituals do we need to develop as a church? Brian and Shay tackle all of this and more on this week’s Queer Lectionary Podcast.

The post Marking Moments – Matthew 3:13-17 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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How does history treat heroes? What do Martin Luther King Jr., the Stonewall Riots, Jesus, and Harvey Milk have in common? What does this John passage mean to queer and trans people? Tune in for a lively discussion about what it means to be prophetic.

The post Sanding Down the Edges John 1:1-18 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Merry Christmas from Brian and Shay! Today we’re talking about the lectionary passage for December 24. What kind of future does the prophet Isaiah paint? What message does it have for those of us working for queer liberation?

The post What Kind of King? Isaiah 9:2-7 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What’s up with Matthew’s birth narrative? What does it mean that Jesus was born where and when he was? What can we learn from this story as queer people? Brian and Shay tackle a common Christmas story and put a queer spin on it.

The post What Child Is This? Matthew 1:18-24 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Isaiah 35:1-10, Psalm 146:5-10 Brian and Shay talk about the meaning of Advent and how counter-cultural it is. What can we learn from waiting and longing? How does the Christmas story go against our American sensibilities?

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Brian and Shay tackle the Gospel passage for the second week of Advent. What is it about John the Baptist that is so captivating? What can queer and trans people learn from the message in these verses?

The post Prepare the Way of the Lord – Matthew 3:1-12 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What about the story of Jesus crucifixion between two thieves is so compelling? Brian and Shay talk about this text and how it confronts us and forces us to change.

The post Choosing to Die – Luke 23:33-43 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week we talk about what it means to be persecuted for your faith. Is there really a war on Christians in the United States? How do we understand Jesus’ words in Luke that say we will be hated by those around us?

The post War on Who? – Luke 21:5-19 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay have a special podcast for Transgender Day of Remembrance. They talk about what this day means to them and offer specific ways that you can observe this special event. To learn more about Transgender Day of Remembrance visit www.transgenderdor.org

The post Transgender Day of Remembrance 2013 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Who Are Your Saints? Brian and Shay talk about the festival of All Saints. What does it mean to have a day to remember and celebrate the saints? How can All Saints’ Day be commemorated queerly?

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Brian and Shay tackle this week’s uncomfortable Gospel reading. What is the difference between the tax collector and the Pharisee? What does this passage have to say to us today?

The post What about sin? – Luke 28:9-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay take a look at the story of Naaman and explore how it compares to the queer experience. Why do we sometimes believe we have to make things hard on ourselves? What would it look like if we simply decided to do the easy thing instead. Read the transcript (PDF) 2 Kings 5:1-15 […]

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Brian and Shay talk about the gift of queer testimony and making space for queer and trans* people to tell their stories. Check out this year’s Queer Theology Synchroblog!

The post Fan the Flame – 2 Timothy 1:1-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man in this week’s podcast. What are the importance of names in the story? What are the importance of names in the queer community? Tackling issues of Transgender Day of Remembrance and more, Brian and Shay queer this familiar story.

The post Names – Luke 16:19-31 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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What is the role of negative emotion in the life of a Christian? Is it ever okay to be angry and rage? What is the role of a preacher in creating space for anger? Brian and Shay tackle a passage from Jeremiah. Photo credit: Original by Moyan Brenn, modified under Creative Commons

The post Is There a Balm in Gilead? – Jeremiah 8:18-9:1 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Jesus tells two parables about lost things and Brian and Shay wonder about where we find ourselves in Jesus’ stories. Are you the shepherd or the sheep? The widow or the coin? Or are you one of the legal experts listening? How does our social location determine how we hear Jesus’ stories?

The post Where do you fit in? – Luke 15:1-10 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay tackle a tough discipleship passage in Luke. What is required of us when we follow Jesus? How does this passage speak to people who consider themselves allies of the queer and/or trans* community? We think the call to discipleship is harder and more exciting than we’ve been taught as of late.

The post A Cost Involved: Luke 14:25-33 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay tackle a passage that talks about marriage and sexual immorality! We talk about overcoming our own fear in reclaiming this text and also about the propensity of people to miss the point of this passage. With a dash of queer sexual ethics thrown in and a shifting of focus to radical politics, […]

The post Missing the Point – Hebrews 13:1-8, 15-16 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week we talk about how the prevalence of texts about justice and how much that means to us as people of faith. We also ask questions about what our communities think of us and if we’re really making a difference. Read the transcript (PDF) Isaiah 58:9b-14 Then you will call, and the Lord will […]

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What does it mean to have faith? Who belongs in our “great cloud of witnesses”? Brian and Shay talk about the lectionary texts for August 18, 2013; Hebrews 11:29-12:2 and explore how they can be read queerly.

The post Run The Race – Hebrews 11:29-12:2 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about the prophetic call of the Isaiah passage. What does this passage teach us about the Biblical interpretation of Sodom and Gomorrah? What is our responsibility when it comes to being the church? What does conversion mean? Read the transcript (PDF) Isaiah 1:10-20 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers […]

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Brian and Shay talk about how the Psalms can bring meaning to community. What role do the Psalms play in communal dreaming? How do these songs give hope in the face of oppression. Read the transcript (PDF) Psalm 107 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; his love endures forever. Let the redeemed […]

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Brian and Shay talk about the importance of dreaming big dreams and asking for audacious requests. What are the things we’re asking for from our church communities? Where should our dreams be bigger and our asks more daring?

The post What Are You Asking For? Luke 11:1-13 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about Mary and how she violates gender roles in order to be closer to Jesus and what the implications are for the church today.

The post What’s Your Role? Luke 10:38-42 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about the message that queer people have been given. We talk about learning to trust ourselves, to trust our experiences, and to speak from our truth. Read the transcript (PDF)

The post It’s In Your Heart: Deut 30:9-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about what it means to leave a church or a community as a form of protest. When you decide to leave, how should you do it? What does it mean to leave a community? Read the transcript (PDF)

The post Shake It Off – Luke 10:1-11 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about how important it is to honor the people who came before us and also to pass off the work to a new generation. How can we handle transitions well? How do we create rituals to mark important moments in our lives? Read the transcript (PDF) 2 Kings 2:1-2 Now the […]

The post Passing the Mantle – 2 Kings 2:1-2, 6-14 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Brian and Shay talk about the political overtones of the casting demons into the swine and what it means for us as American citizens. What could it mean for us as queer people, as Americans, and as Christians to “de-colonize” our minds? Read the transcript (PDF) Luke 8:26-39 They sailed to the region of the […]

The post Got Demons? – Luke 8:26-39 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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This week, Brian & Fr. Shay look at Jesus’s encounter with a “sinful woman” and — perhaps more importantly — Simon’s reaction to the experience. What sins are forgiven? How? And why? We cover all that and more, queerly as often, in this week’s podcast. Take a listen! (6:01)

The post How are sins forgiven? Luke 7:36-8:3 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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Galatians 1: 11-24: In this podcast Brian and Shay talk about recovering from fundamentalism and what it means to be converted. We also talk about asking for permission and trusting our own stories. (4:48) We’d love to hear your thoughts on this week’s reading and on the episode, leave a comment below or shoot an […]

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This week on Reading Queerly, Fr Shay and Brian give unpack Galatians 1:1 – 12 and offer a few tips for pastors looking to preach on this text. We talk about defining the Gospel of Jesus Being courageous to preach a costly Gospel and the rewards of following Christ (4:54)

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It’s Pentecost this Sunday and this week on Reading Queerly: The Queer Lectionary Podcast, we’re talking about the story of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-21) and Romans 8:14-17. This episode is–suprisingly–flaming pun-free. We do talk about The Spirit of God Trusting that we our children (and heirs!) of God Is there a “right” way to be gay/queer/trans? […]

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Welcome to the very first episode of Reading Queerly, the Queer Theology podcast. In each podcast, we take a queer […]

The post Introducing Queer Theology’s Weekly Bible Podcast – Psalm 23 appeared first on Queer Theology.

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In this episode of Reading Queerly: The Queer Lectionary Podcast, Shay and I look at Acts 16:16 – 34 from this Sunday’s lectionary. Here’s what’s in store for you: Paul & Silas come into conflict with businessmen and the government — what does that mean for us? How are faith asks us to do risky […]

The post Faith In Action & Costly Conversion: Acts 16:16-34 appeared first on Queer Theology.

Queer Theology: Recent Episodes

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