Professional Chronicles with Patricia Kathleen

View Details

Today I am chatting with Kate Schnetzer. Kate is an award-winning video content producer and Top 100 Marketing Leader. She helps female entrepreneurs leverage their expertise to build their high-level personal brand empires through video, social media, and high end online marketing so that they can grow their profits, audience, and freedom. Kate believes that every woman deserves to live their life by their own rules and believes that online personal brands are the way to achieve it. She owns the digital marketing agency, Kate Schnetzer Marketing, and is the Founder and Director of Production for Female Entrepreneurs TV. She holds a Masters in Business Administration and when she's not fulfilling her passion for creating profitable video marketing for clients, you can find her gardening in her dream 6 acre woodland vegetarian homestead with her wife, son, and beloved rescue pets.

Key points addressed were

Kate’s professional chronicle that led to her launching her video content and marketing company
We also discussed aspects Kate believes to be crucial when considering video content and the myriad of venues and platforms ones content should be on and why each platform should host bespoke content for your company

View Details

Today I am speaking with Kasey Jones. As a leading thought leadership coach and growth strategist, Kasey Jones is on a mission to help aggressively humble business professionals find their voice, cultivate their confidence, and expand their influence to have a real impact in their industry.

She is founder of A Better Jones a growth coaching firm that helps startups generate demand and leaders expand their industry influence and founder of Our Galaxy, a Slack community and platform that empowers founders and ambitious business professionals create the careers of their dreams by helping them cultivate a supportive community with like-minded go-getters, while honing their skills and building their confidence as industry thought leaders. She is also host of Thought Leader Camp, a podcast where industry influencers share their journeys from obscurity to industry juggernauts and co-host of The Other Side of Sales, a podcast and resource on a mission to make B2B sales culture more inclusive by celebrating the stories of underrepresented sales professionals. Kasey serves as a mentor-in-residence for Portland Incubator Experiment and has coached social impact entrepreneurs in Cuba, Lebanon, and Bangladesh. She’s also been named one of Sales Hacker’s 35 Most Influential Women in Sales and Skaled’s LinkedIn Influencer to Watch.

Key points addressed were

Kasey’s mission to help aggressively humble business professionals find their voice and expand their influence and businesses
We also discussed both of Kasey’s podcast series called Thought Leader Camp and The other Side of Sales and the crucial conversations and platforms these podcasts are endeavoring to explore and bring into a public discourse with transparency and honesty in order to help form a better version of these industries

View Details

Today I am talking with Nina Purewal. Nina Purewal faced an unexpected childhood tragedy which inspired her mindfulness and meditation journey twenty years ago. After climbing the corporate ladder for nearly a decade, she took a sabbatical and moved to California for a year to unplug, live in an ashram and learn ancient wisdom. It’s been her greatest passion to help others find peace amidst adversity and day-to-day stressors. She is now the Founder of Pure Minds, a company that conducts mindfulness and meditation workshops for the public and corporate sector and the bestselling co-author of the book Let That Sh*t Go.

Key points addressed were

Nina’s core tenants regarding mindfulness and meditation that she bases her workshops and company coaching regimens on
We also discussed her book titled: Let that Sh*t go and how its insights inspires and encourages active dialogue with the self in addition to daily space for individuals to refocus and experience calm

View Details

Today I am talking with Heather Hansen. Heather helps her clients learn to advocate for themselves and their ideas. Heather has been a trial attorney for over 20 years and has consistently been named one of the Top 50 Female Attorneys in Pennsylvania. She has her psychology degree, is a trained mediator and an anchor at the Law and Crime Network. Heather has appeared on NBC, Fox News Channel, CNN, MSNBC, CBS and Sirius Radio. Heather is the CEO of Heather Hansen Presents, and has helped thousands of audience members in Kuwait, Ireland, Mexico and across the U.S. become their own best advocates.

Heather is the author of the best-seller “The Elegant Warrior: How to Win Life’s Trials Without Losing Yourself”, which Publishers Weekly calls a “template to achieving personal and career success”. She is also the host of The Elegant Warrior podcast.

Key points addressed were

Heather’s prolific career as a trial attorney and how she used that part of her life to crystalize the core tenants of her current keynote speaking and client coaching empire
We also unpacked the core principles of Heather’s book titled “The Elegant Warrior: How to Win Life’s Trials Without Losing Yourself” and the importance of asking oneself the right questions and forming one’s internal story and jury therein.

View Details

Today I am speaking with Kasey Kitchen. Born in Miami, and raised in Atlanta, Kitchen got her start in entertainment as a dancer and actress, which she pursued professionally. Her love of performing carried her to further study her craft at East Carolina University in Greenville, NC, and then onward to London’s Royal Academy of Dramatic Art, before settling in New York City in 2005. She was one of twelve individuals to sign with MSA, a leading dance agency that had just opened its New York branch. In 2009 she relocated to Los Angeles to further pursue opportunities in film and television, however a year later decided to change paths.

As one who has always had a fascination with the science behind human behavior, Kitchen, with the referral of a retired FBI agent, came very close to a career with the bureau as a communications liaison for the Behavior Analysis Unit. Needless to say, her calling to the world of entertainment couldn’t be ignored making her once again return to where it all began for her; however, this time in public relations.

Prior to founding Marque, Kitchen served as a Senior Account Executive at Advantage PR, ICON PR, East 2 West Collective, and Pinnacle Public Relations, spearheading campaigns for a myriad of talent across the realms of film and television. Through forward thinking and the utilization of creative narratives Kitchen has achieved great success for her clients in the acquisition of press spanning print and digital publications, radio, and broadcast interviews, and furthering that success into the space of branding. She aspires to go beyond traditional PR by implementing an artistic strategy that is uniquely catered to each individual client, with the ultimate goal of furthering their craft as artists while also maintaining longevity and relevancy in their careers—traits that are most vital in today’s vastly changing industry. Kitchen additionally spearheads publicity for The Cameron Boyce Foundation, and sits upon its Board of Directors. She is based in Los Angeles, CA.

Key points addressed were

Kasey’s personal and professional story in dance and entertainment industries prior to launching her successful PR firm
We also discussed some of the unique strategies Kasey employs in her work with her clients at Marque PR and how important it is for her to balance both the integrity of their craft with the longevity of their career and brand

View Details

Today I am chatting with Erin Ardleigh. Erin is the founder and president of Dynama Insurance, where she helps to make the insurance planning process more transparent and more accessible for her clients, meeting the needs of individuals facing complex life events, from marriage to divorce to a growing family or workplace needs (e.g. disability insurance). As independent brokers, Erin and her team represent the country’s strongest and most reliable insurance companies and provide unbiased access to the most competitive products. Dynama Insurance provides life, disability, health and long term care insurance, as well as reviews of existing insurance policies. Areas of expertise include private client products and cross-border planning for international clients. Erin is also a mentor for Women Unlimited, Inc. and a Board Member of the Estate Planning Council of NYC, and an Advisory Board Member of the World Music Institute. She has a Bachelor of Arts degree in Communication and Culture from the City University of New York (CUNY).

Key points addressed were

Erin’s experience setting up her prolific insurance brokerage firm in NYC
We also discussed some the specific areas of consideration a client looking for new insurance policies and/or insurance brokers should consider

View Details

Today I am speaking with Michaële Antoine. Michaële is working to take the training wheels off talk. She is a master facilitator, educator, leader, and creative focused on equipping the community with interpersonal tools to have conversations that matter. Michaële is the creator + founder of Curios, a consultancy aiming to curate experiences that foster curiosity, bravery, and intentionality through leadership/communication consulting, workshops + trainings, and retreats.

Key points addressed were

Michaele’s academic and professional history dealing in various forms of mass scale communication and public discourse that led her to develop Curios which is a consultancy that aims to bring curiosity, bravery, and intentionality to uncomfortable conversations on a public scale

View Details

Today I am talking with Sarah Ordo. Sarah is your not so typical millennial girl just craving to make moves and leave her mark on the world! She's a bit of a do-it-all kind of girl and seriously do ALL the things. She is an entrepreneur and the owner of 24Luxe Hair & Makeup in Detroit, an on-location hair and makeup team for weddings and events. Sarah is also a licensed makeup artist, self-published author, podcast host, YouTuber, life coach, workshop creator, and most recently has begun organizing live local events!

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with entrepreneur, author and owner of 24 Lux Hair and Makeup in Detroit, Michigan sarah Ordo. Key points addressed where Sarah's book writing regarding her personal journey through sobriety and launching of her businesses through self-awareness and unapologetic truth. We also discussed her new endeavor with her brick and mortar beauty bar that will augment her already established mobile business and the differences between these two endeavors. Stay tuned for my unabashedly honest chat with Sarah Ordo.

[00:00:35] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.

[00:01:35] And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Sarah Ordo. Sarah is an entrepreneur and owner of 24 Lux Hair and makeup in Detroit. You can find out more about all of her services and her books that we will be discussing today at W w w dot, Sarah or Dotcom. That is as a r h o r d o dot com. Welcome, Sarah.

[00:01:56] Hello. Thank you so much for having me on today.

[00:01:58] Absolutely. We're just talking before we started recording, and I'm really excited to claim to both your books as well as a lot of the industries that you're servicing and with your hair and makeup and Darrah's. So for everyone listening, I'll give you a bio on Sarah. But prior to doing that quick roadmap for today's podcast, you first look at unpacking Sarah's academic and professional life, and then we'll turn straight into kind of looking at her books. I'm going to have Sarah describe each of those and like the synopsis and as well as the ethos and the philosophy, what she was trying to communicate, who her target readership was, things of that nature. And then we'll unpack. Twenty four Lux hair and makeup and we'll get into the populations and the clientele that they have had in the past as well as their endeavors right now. They were a mobile company. And Sarah just let me know that it was a brick and mortar endeavor that's recently taken change, which is just opposite of everyone else. And I'm excited to find out about that. I like people doing things differently. And then we will kind of unpack everything that's going on within all of those endeavors before looking at Sarah's goals and advice that she has. For those of you who are looking to emulate some of her success or get involved in her efforts. A quick bio, as promised, Sarah is not yours. So typical millennial girl, just Hepp craving to make moves and leave her mark on the world. She's a bit of a do it all kind of woman. And seriously, to do all things. She's an entrepreneur and the owner of twenty four Lux hair and makeup in Detroit and on location, hair and makeup team for weddings and events. She is also a licensed makeup artist, self published author, post podcast host, YouTube, her life coach, workshop creator and most recently has begun organizing live local events. And Sarah, I will say that as I was kind of reading through one of your books, I got the feel of that. I had the I in the sense that it was written by someone who's an adviser and a coach. And I really love that. But before we start unpacking your books and kind of your authorship right there, I'm hoping that you can kind of carve out your early academic and professional life so that people get a sense of the platform that you came to writing the books and launching 24 Lux hair and makeup.

[00:04:08] Yeah, absolutely. So I definitely didn't start out with what I'm doing now, which I feel is the case for most entrepreneurs. I actually started I went to University of Michigan, Dearborn. I started as a psych major, shifted into early childhood and also started teaching preschool right after that. And then at some point during college, I decided I wanted to get my cosmetology license and my parents weren't exactly supportive of it. We're like, no, we're not paying for that. So, yeah, I have always been kind of a like, tell me I can't do something and I got to figure out how to do it. Person, though, I was actually taking night classes. Check out this other loan to go to beauty school at the same time as I was finishing college. So I actually was teaching preschool and then working at a salon on the weekends because I really wanted to do that. And I felt like I had to do both. Like I couldn't just do one. So around the time I was like a year into teaching, though, I was just like, I'm not coming back like. I made the decision. I loved the children. I loved that aspect of it. But I wanted to do something on my own. I wanted to be more creative. And I was not a sit at a desk and write lesson plans everyday kind of person. That just really wasn't me. So I left teaching. I started twenty four Lux hair and makeup in 2013 and it started in my one bedroom apartment at my dining room table and I would literally do people's makeup for forty dollars, anyone that would love me. And that was kind of how. By like Entrepreneurial Beast came to be. I kinda like to say like that's where it all started. I started this like, oh, I'm gonna hustle, I'm going to build this business. Yeah. And I started that 24 luck started to build. We've won awards like everything there just had continuous momentum and we started to build our team and everything. And then around 2015 was when I actually got sober. So I am five years sober now. And graduation's you know, around that time, I just kind of thought the beauty industry was what I was gonna do and that was it. And I got sober, started seeing a therapist, had a dream one day that I found a book on the floor and it was pictures of me in the book and it was me drunk. And it was my story in the book that I literally went to therapy and I was like, if I just write a book, is this a. Like, what do I do? And so I give my therapist was like very supportive about it. She was like, you know, if anything, maybe it'll be therapeutic for you. Like, maybe just process everything, go through all the feelings, the emotions journal about it. And I had created a YouTube channel because I want to be like a beauty blogger at some point. And I had that going. And it it wasn't big. Like not a lot of people were watching it. And one day I just sat down with my phone and I recorded a video called My Sober Story Why I Got Sober. And the video just kind of like blew up. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I was kind of like brought into this new world where there were all these women in the online space and in the online community kind of looking for help, looking for personal development, looking for support, especially in sobriety, because at the time I was twenty six years old, there weren't a lot of women talking about being sober at twenty six. Yeah. So instantly I had all these women reaching out to me like, oh my God, how do we. I was just like you. Like what did you do. What worked for you. Like asking me questions. And that was honestly what kind of opened my eyes to this whole other world I'm in now. Where I started, I self published my first book in 2017. I started my podcast. I started doing online courses and coaching. I started doing events and speaking from all my experiences. So I really didn't have to be like, you know, formal academic background for any of these other things that I'm doing now. You know, I have my cosmetology license and I have a degree, but something completely unrelated. So it's very it's very interesting where people are like, oh, did you go to school? Like, what would you do? And I'm like, oh, there's all this stuff. I just kind of like self learned along the way and taught myself.

[00:08:18] Well, I think 90 percent of it's like that, though, you know, and this is a whole nother podcast. But academia for me is about life of the higher mind. It's not really about applicable knowledge or on the job training. And so for me, it's incredibly valid for those that know me. I'm a passionate academic and I support the institution because I like the idea of it. But as far as like it honing a career that's trade school, that's totally different. You know, it's a completely different thing. And so it's funny for me when I think about jobs that require bachelor's degree and like, really? So are you hoping that they analyze that through that, you know, Confucius knowledge lens, then?

[00:08:57] It's like, no, why are you a five for it?

[00:08:59] But I think it shows other skills naturally. But I do agree with what you're saying. And there's no school anyway. Even if you had gone to school for there's no class called entrepreneurship, you know, build your own business. Those all of those things are self-taught as you have along the way. You could have dropped in that you in 2017. You wrote your first book. I have a down his inner bloom, finding the true inner happiness and creative and creating your best life.

[00:09:24] So sober as fuck was actually my first book, OK.

[00:09:27] Enter Bloom with second. So everything was in there. It was right in the beginning. Yeah. So it was the same year was it 2017.

[00:09:35] It was I want to say it was because I was a psycho, I have nine self publish pieces of Amazon now.

[00:09:42] Yeah, excellent. I have great.

[00:09:45] I mean, they're not awful like the books. I have workbooks. I have journals. Like, I have a couple of different. Some more like quick read books. But after I wrote over as spoke, I became so addicted to the process that I literally started writing interleave immediately because I was like, oh my God, I wrote a book like, I have so much more to say now. Like now I'm in it. I'm in a new place. Like I have different things to say after I'm past, you know, the beginning of my sobriety. So that was kind of what led to writing in bloom.

[00:10:11] So as sober as fuck your sobriety story and why and what it offer you. So if that's the case, does it begin with your bottom and then end with your final acceptance of sober life? And if so, what can you kind of draw us through like in ten sentences or less like what you kind of go through in that journey and when you choose to share as opposed to what you choose to exclude.

[00:10:34] Yes. So I'm pretty I'm pretty candid at it. Like it's a pretty, pretty open book, literally. It starts kind of talking about a little bit touching on my background, but it pretty quickly dives into my rock bottom. I was hospitalized. I had to be taken to the emergency room. I drink such a large amount and I took drugs, a lethal combination on top of it, and my body just started shutting down. So I did have a, you know, life threatening experience where I almost didn't walk out of it alive. So I walk everyone through that. And then also, you know, I decided to get sober and I was like, OK, I'm going to do this. I got to get sober, like, kind of naively thinking it was going to be easy and sober as fuck really dives deeper into the first two years of my sobriety, because the first I would say, like between six months to a year were horrible. Like I went into deep depressions. I got to the lowest lows I've ever been in. And it was because I was fighting the help. I wasn't open to accepting all the help and resources that were out there. I was trying to just do it on my own. After I opened up to that, it kind of follows the journey of going through my second year in sobriety where I really did come to accept everything and start this new life, which was ultimately so much better than what I left behind.

[00:11:46] Absolutely. Was that it? Was it inspirational for inner blue, like as you started to kind of come out of that difficult selves to a year? Absolutely.

[00:11:54] Because after that, I was like at the end of that book, like after two years, it became kind of like my relentless thing in life that I was like, I want to create my best life possible. Like, I'm here now. I did this. I have the second chance and I don't wanna take it for granted. So, like, how do I make it my best life possible? How do I make every day the best day? And that's what Inner Bloom really is about. It was how I started changing things in my life. What I started practicing in my everyday life that really gave me, like, true inner happiness. Aside from all the external factors.

[00:12:24] Yeah, I see the trend, the trajectory now. Like, especially between the books, because sober as fuck and enter bloom from what you just described. Those both are like the stepping stones up to. Not sorry.

[00:12:37] Which I'm hoping is, you know, somewhere around your third, because that's what I have in my notes as it's my rose. Recent one. So. Yeah. OK.

[00:12:43] Your most recent I looked at I looked through that and. Yeah. Yeah. And you and I talked before we got on and I want you to walk people through it, but it does have kind of the notes. So it's not sorry. Living your most confident, vibrant and unapologetic life. And you do have this. This. The rhetoric to me is so constant and powerful about like it's this is you know, this is your time now. Like, you need to tap into who you are and make sure that you stay very transparently, not only honest to yourself, but to your environment, like those around you, like keeping everyone on the exact same line and page. And so it makes sense that you start off, you know, with your sober journey and then climb into the inner bloom and really finding out you because it feels like not sorry is about putting it out there in front of your reality after you've come until the mental awareness. But I want you can describe for everyone listening. What inspired you to write? Not sorry, especially because you have such a body of work before it. And who is the reader? Who were you writing for or to in describing it? And what is like the shape and the body of the book.

[00:13:51] Yeah. So I went obviously from sobriety. I have a few books in between that are a little bit more like personal development still. But once I don't know what it was, once I got into my thirties, it was like. I don't know if it was age. I don't know. It just fully accepting myself finally. But I started to notice in myself and then it was ultimately who I wrote the book for was that there were so many women, myself included, that we were like, oh, I'm living my best life. And we're like sharing all the quotes. I'm like, Oh, I'm happy. You look at me. I'm doing all the things like, you know, if we're single, we're acting like we're happy, single. We don't need anybody. Like we're always posting and sharing all these things, talking about how great we are. But then I would catch myself at the same time, you know, having someone criticize something I did and I was internalizing it and being like, oh, my God, maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe I should change that. Maybe I should do this differently. Like, why is this person upset about it? And just taking on a lot of outside things? Again, whether it was criticism of people's opinions, whether it was trolls on the Internet. And I saw so many women out there that we were like acting like we were fully authentic, acting like we were unapologetic and we didn't care what anyone else was saying. But then at the same time, still internalizing those things and not fully stepping into that woman that we were wanting to be. And so that was what really inspired me to write the book. It was finally like I had no criticism. I had things happening in my life. I had boundaries that were getting crossed in my life that I didn't want to get cross. And it was finally like, you know what? Like I'm not fucking sorry. Like I'm going to live my life the way that I want to live it, the way that I feel confident, as vibrant as I want to be, if I want to be, you know, quote, extra, if that makes me happy, if I'm not hurting or harming anyone else, why does anyone get to have a problem with it? And why do I need to apologize for what that authentic version of me really looks like? And so it really did just become this book of like preach mode to, like, be yourself. Stop giving a shit about what everyone else thinks. Stop internalizing the things that don't really matter. Stop watering yourself down. Stop whispering when you want to scream and say things out loud and really just not apologizing for who you want to be in your life anymore.

[00:16:05] Absolutely. And it felt a lot to me. Like what, Deena? There is a stereotypical and it's a good stereotype that in your 30s you genuinely start to begin to live life for you, you know, and prior to that, we're just inundated and for good reason.

[00:16:19] You know, when you're five, you need to heed to all the advice around you so you don't get hit by a car. Like there's different things of that that are a good reason. In our twenties, we're still paying a lot of heed to social cues so that we can become valuable members of society and hopefully compassionate and things of that nature. But I think that it's I did get that kind of like, listen, you know, take stock in all of the lessons you've learned, but for certain, start to live life for yourself. And however that makes you happy. And the emphasis on, you know, making sure that it's it's good for you and your environment and stuff like that, I think that that's so crucial.

[00:16:53] And I encourage everyone to jump on and check it out. It sounds like you have an entire library I haven't looked at. Yes, I do. That's awesome. I love that. I think it's so rad to be self published.

[00:17:03] I think to have a prolific experience with it like you have is rare. And it means that you're probably meant to do more of it. You know, when people do things that such a prolific nature, it seems to be part of their DNA for the like zone of genius. I kind of want to get into 24 hour or twenty four Lux hair and makeup now because we were talking before we started. And a lot of people who know me or listen to the podcast knows that I have a history of fashion photography. So I run deep, you know, decades with makeup and hair stylist and makeup artists and cosmetologists, people all in that field as they approach fashion. And I was telling you, I haven't spoken to anyone in the industry that you have largely served, which has Freital.

[00:17:49] Yes. So I'll answer it, though. OK.

[00:17:53] Honestly, I've never been on a photography set that wasn't filled with enough frenetic energy, especially mine. People would call them like stressful, but like I like that energy. So that's exciting for me. I can handle that. I am actually productive. I ride that wave, but me too. I thrive on chaos. I always say that. I've got. That's right. Yes. But is your chaos, that actually freaks me out. And it's because your client is stressed and my client was usually never there.

[00:18:22] And if they were, it was a controlled environment. I had ways of dealing with the client. You know, I was gonna do my work. I was going to capture my artistry. I was going to capture all of my buddy's artistry with the makeup and hair, the models, artistry with their, you know, their dynamic and posing and things like that.

[00:18:37] But the client and being around was never my favorite and let alone the client being the receiver of the product. And on one of the world's most stressful days, my most favorite thing to say about brides is that the most innocent like Gandhi, Buddha like figure, we'll see for some reason try to mess with a bride or groom on their wedding day. It's the weirdest phenomena of life, but I promise you, someone's. Ram mother, who is normally a seat, her grandfather will just slide a little bit like something weird, like a comment.

[00:19:12] Yeah, a little common or like, hey, did you take out your trash? I think you need to re park your car and you're like homegirls getting married in two hours. And why are you doing this to them? So you have a very fragile creature already stressed out, usually underfed and under slept maybe a little a drinking thing or coffee. Take us what the other. And then you have all of these and then you're saying, now let me satisfy you. I'm like, I don't think you can create a more perfect storm of someone harder to satisfy. And that gives me hives thinking about it. I'm like, I can't. Like, I don't know how you perform in those environments.

[00:19:49] I want to get into why you chose that industry and some of the techniques that you use. And I'm like how your response has been. What are the pitfalls like? It's it's an area that everybody wants to tee off. So, yeah. Walk us through some of that.

[00:20:04] Yeah. So I first got into weddings because I started I have a cosmetology license. I was doing hair. To be honest, I like doing here. I still like doing some hair. I just didn't like being in like in a hair salon. I really liked the makeup side of things. I really liked the artistry side of makeup more. And I remember I was at a salon and I asked them, like, could I do makeup here? And they were like, oh, we are to have one that does it. And like, she was older and they were like, you don't want to hurt her feelings. And I was like, OK. So I kind of just started, you know, like I mentioned earlier, like doing girls for prom, doing things for events. And, you know, eventually someone asked me if I would do their makeup for their wedding. And I was like, oh, sure. Like, OK. And then someone literally asked me, they're like, why don't you do this? Like, why don't you just do this? And I was like, why don't I do this? Like, this is so true. And it was interesting because when I started the business in 2013, there weren't as many mobile teams. Now there's a ton. Everybody's got a bridal team now, like everybody has either a team from a salon that'll come on location or they're a strictly mobile teams. And the reason I honestly started the business was, I mean, No. One, I just loved doing makeup. But in the Detroit area, it's not like New York. It's not like L.A. It's not like Chicago where people have these glamorous events and they're not paying to get their makeup done for photo shoots all the time. There's not as much of a constant as far as just doing like everyday makeup for people. You know, there's people that don't get it for, you know, family photos, you know, for their weddings, whatever. But I learned very quickly that if I wanted some sort of consistent income doing makeup, I kind of had to get into a specific area of it. It was either going to be commercial. I was gonna work at a counter or then wedding popped up and it was like, oh, people are always getting married. There's lots of weddings every year. So that was what kind of got me into it. And to speak on what you said about brides and everything. It's really funny because we've definitely had the meltdowns. We've definitely had those people. For some reason, we always laugh. I, for some reason can handle really crazy people. I don't know what it is. I have a tendency to just, like, be very nice, like, OK, you know what? We're going to fix it. Everything's fine. Let's do this. Sit down, girl. Chill. We got it. Like, I'm just very good at diffusing things. But I will also say we always have everyone ask and be like, oh my God. Like, what's your bride zilla stories like tell us. You probably have so many bride zilla stories and we always laugh because we're like ninety five percent of the time. It's not a bride. It's like you mentioned, it's like an aunt that feels really over titled or like a random bridesmaid that's like, you know, maybe not feeling so great that day and doesn't like how our dress fits.

[00:22:47] And so she's like nit picking everything about herself and she doesn't like her makeup, just like her hair. And she feels like her face looks big, you know, just kinda like tearing yourself apart or, you know, sometimes there's a mom that's saying things that are not supportive on a wedding day. And, you know, brides start crying like there's so many dynamics because there's so many people and family members and emotions, which I mean, like you throw in a female family members in a room, you're bound to have some, you know, hormones going crazy. They're already and then throw in a wedding day.

[00:23:18] But, yeah, we always laugh because most the time it's not the bride, it's someone else that's either being overdramatic or feels over tight. Old adage kinda like blows up a situation, but I really do love weddings. I like fast pace. It's always somewhere different. It's always different people. It's change of scenery. We get to go to different hotels, then use downtown balms like we're literally always in different places, which I really love and you know. Ninety nine percent of the time the rides are really excited and they're really happy. And it's just it's a really cool experience to be there with them on such an important day of their life and to be in such an intimate position with them where, you know, you're doing something like putting on their makeup, where it's going to make them feel even more. Beautiful on their special day. And you get to be a part of that.

[00:24:07] Absolutely. And that's a good way of looking at it. You are bringing out a beauty and joy to someone's important day window.

[00:24:13] So I want to get into some of the logistics. I forgot to do that in my hyper activity to jump straight into the teeth. When was when was it founded? Like, did you have a year? Did you take any funding? And no. No funding. OK. And when was your first hire? When did you first kind of start. OK.

[00:24:31] So I this is totally not what I would recommend to anyone. But in the beginning when it was just me, I would call my friends. I knew that did hair and be like, hey, do you I do this wedding with me. I'll just give you cash. So it was very not legit for a very long time. Yeah. So obviously, as we got bigger, we had a little bit more legitimate. But because we were a mobile team, we didn't have any overhead in the beginning. So I didn't have to borrow any funding. We didn't have a location. We didn't have I mean, we literally had nothing. I had my makeup kit already. People at hair survive, like we literally didn't have to buy things started. So it was very low cost to start. I can say now that we've expanded and brought on more people within the last year or so and now we have more than one team that will go out on any given day. So we can do more weddings. And with this new chapter, with our beauty bar opening now in 2020. That was a whole nother monster. That was a whole nother beast for me to tackle because I had never had a brick and mortar. I had never had any experience with anything like that. And I just kind of being my go get herself like Dover. Like, yeah, we're gonna do this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, he's open to that. That was definitely a lot more expensive, a lot more moving pieces, a lot more legal.

[00:25:50] Signed the lease for this like just as Kofod set in.

[00:25:54] Yes. Huh. Like a couple of weeks before it started. Welcome. Yeah, I cried.

[00:26:00] Was it bare bones? Did you have to build out? Spaces can vary. You can get into it like an already outfitted space. You can take over a former beauty bar, which already has a lot of things tricked out. What was your space like? How much like did you have to do to deal with that?

[00:26:13] Yeah. So the. We found one space originally that we really, really liked and it was actually funny enough, like now looking back like it doesn't make sense. It was hundreds of dollars more per month than the one we ended up in. And it was literally bare bones. They were kind of like arguing with us every time we were talking about things we would want to change because he had done the renovations himself. It was like an older gentleman and you just start to get the vibe. He didn't really want you to change what he did because he felt like he did it and it was good enough. So he was kind of like beating down all these, like build out things we were proposing. And then ultimately, they just rejected our offer. And I was heartbroken because I loved the location initially. But within a few days, we found this new location and it was less per month. It's actually an old fire station. So it has original exposed brick. It has like these white beautiful pillars. It's got huge windows. It's in a downtown historic area. It's got the original wood like ship lap walling where they used to pin up like the papers and stuff. So it had so much character.

[00:27:20] You'd already had rooms built in it, wood floors, like it was like, oh, good thing this didn't work out for a reason because this was so much better. So we didn't have to do too much build out. We had to build one room because we are going to offer micro bleeding, which is very, very strict because it's considered tattooing. So you have to have the health department come out and inspect and license your facility. So that was the only thing we actually had to create a room for that. But other than that, all we had to do was we replaced some flooring and one of the rooms just really like had to furnish the whole place and decorate it and do all that stuff.

[00:27:58] So when you say a beauty bar, what kind of that's a blanket term? It can be a lot of different things. So what services do you offer? And how did you curate what services you were going to offer or not offer? Like you just mentioned, micro blading. I was thinking men's bar was stuck like that. So how did you kind of curious what services and what services do you offer?

[00:28:17] Yes. So I personally worked for a benefit cosmetics part time for seven years. I sold their cosmetics and then I also worked. They have a brow bar. They have a waxing counter. So I literally was doing eyebrow waxing and tending for seven years straight.

[00:28:31] Just part time as I was building all my other businesses as kind of like my safety money. So I had all this experience and I had all these clients. And when I left there, all these people were like, can we come in your house and get our eyebrows started? And I was like, no, I don't know what to do. That's weird. Yeah. And I but at the same time, like, I've always loved that client relationship and those people were like regular clients, like I knew them, like they knew me back before I even met my husband when I was working there. So I, I kind of had this thought of like I like I kind of want to keep these clients. So I definitely right off the bat was like, OK, we'll do a brow bar. We can do brow waxing and tinting there for sure. So that was gonna be like my component of it. And then obviously the makeup was going to come in there as well, because we're all and a couple of my girlfriends, like we all do makeup and we added spray tanning. One of my girls just got certified and spray tanning and then we have eyelash extensions. It's actually the girl that's been doing my eyelash extensions for almost two years. I've been telling her for at least the past year that it was my goal in life to get her to work for me. So that came through. I came there. Yeah. So, yeah, we have healthy brown our makeup tanning extensions. We have two. The microblogging process is taking a little bit longer just because it's so much health department regulation. So we go through a couple more in-depth inspections still and then we're also probably gonna offer facials in that room just because it's already going to be kind of set up for it. Yeah, and we kind of like the way I kind of decide what we going to do there. Like, I knew what I was going to do, but I took on this. I've always loved helping other women, like, build and expand. So I had, you know, these several girls I knew also in the industry, they're all a little bit younger than me. They're all in their 20s, very eager, very excited, very talented. And I was like, hey. We all want to come to this, if you like. I would love to help you build your business like you asked me in the face with me, like it'll be so much fun together. So that was kind of how we factored in who was going to be working there and what services we were going to offer. I definitely didn't want to get into the hair department. There is a whole other level of licensing that I was just like, I'm not I'm not a hair stylist anymore. Like, what are you doing here?

[00:30:45] So we unida here if it's just me, but I don't really like I don't like the mixture and maybe I'm just old, like, I don't know what it is, but like I don't intend to get. And yeah, the, the eyebrows or the eyelash extensions or at the hair salon, it's like waxing at the nail salon. I think a lot of people do, but I like different stories.

[00:31:09] Oh I hear that all the time.

[00:31:11] I would have so many clients that came to me at the Rahbar and they were like, can you fix my eyebrows? I got done at the nail place and I'm like, girl. Like when you pay for a seven dollar eyebrow wax, like you're gonna get a seven dollar eyebrow.

[00:31:22] Yeah, exactly. So you definitely have kind of like that.

[00:31:26] You should do it like it's more of like the beauty like pampering enhancement side then like hair maintenance kind of thing.

[00:31:33] Nice. What did you. How did you decide your business model? Does that something you learned along the way or did you like. I mean, that's all varies. That whole industry is like the Wild West and really rent space. You can do a salary. You can do an hourly. There's so many different things. How did you decide?

[00:31:50] So I literally clueless going into it. Didn't have too much business background about how to do this. I honestly just started researching.

[00:31:58] I looked at our costs, our expenses, talked to the girls about what would work best for them because, you know, if they don't have a full clientele, it doesn't really make sense for them to do booth rent because then they're losing money. So we all kind of just like power out on numbers. My husband is way more good on money stuff than I am. So he helped me with a lot of that, too.

[00:32:17] But we've actually gotten it set up to a place where we can cover a portion of our rent with our booth rent girls that are in there, which is really nice because a lot of places, you know, in the beginning, you're just struggling to like get to profit where it kind of gives us a leg up on that from the get go.

[00:32:34] Absolutely. That's really cool. It sounds like you've done it right, too. I'm curious with, like, the micro blending, it sounds like you already have like some future plans planned out.

[00:32:42] Have you looked forward to even just like daydreaming about the next one to three years, particularly in the brick and mortar, because it's your latest scene and baby, but also speaking to, you know, the and the hair and makeup with the bridal. Do you have future plans for the next one to three years? I think post covered, you know, with these restrained open backup buds as they start to do even more so in the winter and spring when we get a vaccination. What are your future plans with both endeavors?

[00:33:11] So right now, we were just talking about it today, were like were busy, we're busier than we. I mean, like I knew we were going to be busy, but like, it's becoming very quickly. Like it's catching speed quicker than we thought it was going to. So, like, we're in a point where people are literally already contacting me, like I want to get eyelashes and I can't get until the end of July. And I'm like.

[00:33:32] Sorry.

[00:33:34] That is all we have right now. I mean, we just opened.

[00:33:37] But like, so weird. It's funny. We were literally just sitting outside this morning having your conversation about it. We have the potential. One day there's a way you can sign these things with leases. Unstuff where it's a our building is conjoined with a second business. So we we actually signed something saying that if the other person was to leave, that we would have first opportunity if we wanted the business next door. So my husband is already reeling with the ideas. He's like, oh my God, we could open this up and then you going to have a whole other thing here. You could hire like four more last. So he's already like ten steps ahead. So that's something we definitely have in thinking about how we could expand that even more. The bridal teams, honestly, we I feel like we're just gonna keep growing that every year. I feel like at some point I'm gonna max out how many people I want to be on TV just because it's so many moving pieces with that and so many people traveling and scheduling it. It's a whole nother ballgame with that one. But I'm excited because, I mean, it's really it's taken speed a lot quicker than I thought it was going to as far as the beauty bar or so. It'll be interesting to kind of see how it goes from here.

[00:34:49] Yeah, it's a different beast and it should impact. You know, it's not like it's like having one child and keeping it separate from the other one you had. They're both going to have communication and conversation and movement between the two. It'll be interesting to see. So I'm curious, we're kind of at the point now and our podcast, that is my favorite part for this, if everyone who listens. But I wanted to when I designed this question, it was long before Cauvin and it was awesome to kind of show people amea back in their face and to give people that like your top three Bible pieces.

[00:35:22] But I'm curious if you were in a park in beautiful Detroit tomorrow and so save social distance and a woman or a female identified non binary individual. Anyone other than a straight cis gendered white man walked up to you and said, listen, I have you know, I have degrees in areas that don't pertain to what I'm doing now. I've kind of bounced all over. I have this incredibly prolific writing career that came out of like an original journey of getting sober and moving forward and launching businesses. I'm getting ready to do brick and mortar for the first time. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual? Knowing what you know now after everything you've gone through.

[00:36:03] Yeah. Chase your big dreams because they're not too big. Because I thought they were scary. I did it so I could do what anybody else. Definitely be open to help. Because I'm the one that tries to do all the things and think I can do it on my own and sometimes I can't. And I need to be open to people helping me.

[00:36:22] And to be daring but safe.

[00:36:28] Very contradictory. Yeah. But definitely, like, I just to like, unpack that a little bit. Like I am someone who is always daring. I jump in, I'm like, I want to try this. I'm going to try to do it. Here we go. Like I jump all in. But I also am financially not stupid about it, if that makes sense. Yeah. I'm not going to drain my bank accounts and be like, let's see if this works. Like, I would never put us in that situation. I'll figure out a way to make it work. But I'm not going to be overly risky when I do it absent like some people do.

[00:37:00] I did too.

[00:37:01] And I think it's the only piece of people really regret, you know, is when they lose the house. It's like it's everything else you're like. You know, I lost a lot of sleep that year. This that the other I had to bike to work, whatever it is. But where are you when you go financially to a place where you've kind of changed your quality of life, everything goes downhill. Even wanted to success story after that, they're like, oh, that was awful. Yes. No, I've got chase your big dreams. You're not as big and and obtainable as you think. Open. Stay open to help.

[00:37:34] And it sounds like tied into that is also like getting ready to outsource the. Jill. Of all trades, even though you can be and be daring but safe and be financially safe but emotionally daring.

[00:37:46] Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. Thank you so much for your time today, Sara. I loved learning about everything that you're doing with 24 hour le sorry, 24 hour 24 leks hair and makeup as well as the beauty bar. What is the name of the beauty bar?

[00:38:00] The same 24 hour Lux beauty, right? Yep. Oh, cool.

[00:38:03] I love that. I love hearing about all of that and your books as well. I encourage everyone to get on and check out at least the one I read.

[00:38:09] Not sorry. Living your most confident, vibrant and unapologetic life. Who's awesome. And I appreciate you talking to us.

[00:38:16] Thank you so much for having me on today.

[00:38:17] Yeah. And for everyone listening, I appreciate your time. We've been speaking with Sarah Ordo. She's an entrepreneur and owner and author. You can find out more about everything we've talked about today on her website. W w w dot Sarah or dot dot com.

[00:38:32] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself, Slainte.

View Details

Today I am chatting with Sayu Bhojwani. Sayu is a political scientist, author and outspoken advocate for shaking up the status quo in our democracy. In 2019, CQ Roll Call named her one of three people outside of the Beltway to watch. Since 2010, she has served as the founder and president of New American Leaders. In that capacity, she has recruited, coached and supported over 50 first and second generation Americans who now serve in local, state or federal office. A proven expert on diversity and democracy, she gave a widely viewed TED talk on immigrants’ critical role in our democracy. In 2018, her first book, People Like Us: The New Wave of Candidates Knocking at Democracy’s Door, was published by The New Press. A proud immigrant New Yorker, she also served as New York City’s first Commissioner of Immigrant Affairs from 2002 to 2004.

Key points addressed were

Sayu’s ambitious professional story beginning with analysis and implementation of immigration issues following 9/11
We also unpacked the goal of New American Leaders .or g and its effort to shine transparency and applicability on the process of running for public office for 1st & 2nd generation immigrants and individuals that identify with these communities
We also briefly explored her book titled People Like Us: The new Wave of Candidates Knocking At Democracy’s Door

View Details

Today I am speaking with Kim Woods. Kim E. Woods, MBA and Spiritual Consultant to high performing entrepreneurs and global leaders, has founded multiple 7 figure brick & mortar businesses. Her life truly began once she recognized that while she had checked all the boxes, so to speak, she still lacked a true feeling of satisfaction, power and contentment. When Kim finally embraced her own “Spiritual Coming-Out,” she was not only able to physically heal her son but also to help herself and her thousands of clients around the world to find their true purpose and step into their power, creating alignment, profit and a feeling of unparalleled satisfaction.

Key points addressed were

Kim’s advent into the world of spiritual advising and writing her 3 books that define, describe, and map out how the multitude of techniques and theories in the Wu and spiritual healing realm work
We also discussed how Kim herself approaches new clients and the plethora of techniques, methodologies, and doctrines she employees in her consultancy with each

View Details

Today I am talking with Crystal Noell. At the age of 4 with 20 words vocabulary, Crys was solidly in the foster care system. She graduated from high school as a valedictorian, obtained four college degrees, competitively swam and marched in the Fresno State Bulldog Marching Band. Numbers are magic to Crys and Financial Freedom is her life's purpose. In Crys' free time, she volunteers at Just In Time, a non profit organization for foster youth aging out of the foster care system. She also maintains her really fun hair.

Key points addressed were

Fundamental tactics employed by T&T in their work to bring clients from across all industriels from various forms of debt into the black
We also discussed the education Crys and her team provide to ensure best financial practices for her clients as they move into a debt free future.

View Details

Today I am speaking with Sonya Barlow. Sonya is the founder of LMF Network CiC, a global community dedicated to reducing inequalities and providing a foundation to succeed womxn and underrepresented individuals through life skills workshops, digital training, a supportive community, and access to expertise for everyone. She is also the founder of her own diversity consultancy and specialises in consulting on inclusive cultures, change management and confidence in the workplace.

Key points addressed were

The efforts that her non-profit: like-minded females network is currently involved in around life skills workshops, digital training, and the similar endeavors
We also discussed both of Sonya’s podcasts launched this year and how she achieved overnight success with the fluidity of the their launch and sponsorship

View Details

Today I am chatting with Tamsin Napier-Munn. Tamsin is an enthusiastic, skilled and energetic speaker and facilitator, whose business acumen and engaging style ensures that sessions are not only highly relevant but have a lasting positive impact. Tamsin’s eternal optimism for people and opportunities have helped drive her determination to successfully navigate her way through –like many people -a far from straight forward upbringing and career path.

Having had a highly successful sales career in B2B fashion, publishing and IT Consulting, Tamsin transitioned into training sales teams and management, and led a regional Dale Carnegie Training business. As host of The Women in Business Awards and Campaign for the last 5 years for The Business Magazine, Tamsin is passionate about tapping in to the power in us, pushing through doubts and taking charge of our careers and our lives. As a result of her experiences and determination to learn to speak up and step up, Tamsin has been inspired to reach out to those of us who haven’t yet found our voices to find the courage and skills to get seen and get heard.

Key points addressed were

Tamsin varied professional career as well as her some of her personal struggles that led her to design and develop Raw Talks academy, a program developed to inspire, impact, and enable her clients to create real impact on their careers and lives

This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I sat down with speaker facilitator and host of Women in Business Awards, as well as the founder and CEO of Raw Talks Academy, Tamsin Napier-Munn, among key points addressed where Tamsin's varied professional career, as well as some of her personal struggles that led to her to design and develop Raw Talks Academy, a program developed to inspire impact and enable her clients to create real impact on their careers and lives. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Tamsin Napier-Munn.

[00:01:33] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Tamsin Napier-Munn. Tamsin is a speaker, a facilitator and host of Women in Business Awards. She is also the founder and CEO of Rock Talks Academy. You can find out more about these issues and done some of the stuff we impact today at Raw Talks Academy dot com. Welcome, Tamsin.

[00:01:56] All right. Great to see you. I'm very excited. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:59] Absolutely. I'm excited to klotho everything regarding your business endeavors today. And for those of you that are new to this podcast. I'll give you a brief roadmap of where our line of inquiry will be headed towards in our 30 to 45 minutes today. And I will also read a bio on Tamsin before I start peppering her with questions. So the roadmap for today's podcast will first look at Tamsin's academic and professional background in history, leading her to the Rock Talks Academy and her work within that, as well as hosting of the Women in Business Awards. Some of those efforts and we will look towards unpacking those efforts in general, the logistics of when each was founded, the work that each is doing, all of that. And then we will turn our efforts towards goals that Tamsin has for all of those projects, namely the Raw Talks Academy over the next one to three years and will wrap everything up with the advice that she has for those of you who are looking to get involved or perhaps emulate some of her success. So as promised, prior to getting into my line of inquiry, a quick bio, Tamsin is an enthusiastic, skilled and energetic speaker and facilitator whose business acumen and engaging style ensures that sessions are not only highly relevant but have a lasting positive impact. Tamsin's eternal optimism for people and opportunities have helped drive her determination to successfully navigate her way through. Like many people, far from sight forward upbringing and career path, having a highly having had a highly successful sales and career in B2B fashion publishing and I.T. temps and transitioned into training sales teams in management and led original Dale Carnegie training business as host of the Women in Business Awards and campaign for the last five years for the Business magazine. Tamsin is passionate about tapping into the power in us, pushing through doubts and taking charge of our careers and our lives as a result of her experience and determination to learn to speak up and step it step up. Tamsin has been inspired to reach out to those of us who haven't yet found her voice or voices to find the courage and skills to get seen and get heard. In 2019, Roth Talks Academy was launched pioneering programs for people of influence. Tamsin has designed strategies, steps and processes as a part of a system to empower you to develop real confidence and real influence and have real impact on your career in business. By tapping into your personal power, you will have a life with greater passion, purpose and will truly unlock your potential and make what you say matter. Because what you say matters is a quote from Tamsin Napier-Munn. Man. So Tamsin. I do. I do want to drop straight in to everything that you're doing. However, prior to that, I'm hoping that you can kind of unpack for us your history, your academic background and early professional life that led you to what you're doing now with a long story.

[00:04:54] I'm sure it was a lovely, lovely, long story to tell. So, you know, I really didn't have much of an academic background, so we can swiftly go past that one. But I you know, I wasn't you know, it didn't engage in school. I was autistic. I think I had ADHD then. But I think people really understood it. So I had quite a dysfunctional and very abusive childhood. So my focus was very much on self preservation. And part of that was I wasn't really allowed to speak. So I was very much metaphorically gagged as a child. So I kind of lifted my head for a lot of time. So I went into Six-fold college and before I went to art college, which I dropped out of, I have to say I had other retsina of young girls, you know, really struggled with your own identity and all the rest of it. So it took me years of years to start to, I guess, undo a lot of the self-esteem issues. And that was probably the reason why I kind of dropped out of college. I went to college. I wanted to be a fashion designer. And so that was the path to go. So unfortunately, I didn't finish it. I don't think my parents were too impressed. Hey, that's that's my academic background.

[00:06:20] Yeah, well, listen, that's interesting because I frequently find in people that I speak to, particularly women or female identified or non binary individual, that doesn't necessarily denote a very prolific. And like a widely cast net as far as the professional life is concerned, you know, inquiry during that time period happens at any stage, regardless of the institution one finds themselves in. So how did you start your professional life?

[00:06:47] Well, interesting. You know, I think it teaches you. I mean, when you go through stuff, it teaches you resilience, determination. And I know although I fell out of college. I still wanted to be a fashion designer, I kind of went up it's sort of one of those romantic stories or not of running up to London and.

[00:07:10] Finding my fame and fortune, but unfortunately found it probably in the wrong places and found myself with the wrong with the wrong people. Just one morning, early morning when I was coming back from one of those all nighters, I was passing the rag trade in London and I happened to peer into the window of this fashion house. And this chap came out and we got chatting and offered me a job. At that point, it was simply a go for job. I was I was hanging clothes and go for a go for that to go for this and any thirty five pounds a week. It was. Wow. Yeah. Not a lot, but I was willing to learn. And I then went to work for Philip Green, the infamous Philip Green one stop shop. And that was an experience I think baptism by fire with that gentleman. And he you know, I'm no good to jumping into a defining moments in our lives. But, you know, that kick started my career in sales because although I wanted to be a fashion designer, I ended up talking to clients, selling clothes from the racks and to the wholesalers to top shop. I felt I had a knack of of influencing and how to understand people relate and connect. So I remember Philip Green wants to turn round to me and said, Tamsin, if you had brains that you'd be dangerous. I remember thinking, I don't think that was a compliment. But it gave me a real drive to start to say, okay, that I'll show you moments. And I from that moment, all my career started to kind of go forward, but I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to make money. The reason being is I want to be financially independent. I think a lot of women that I have met who perhaps happen to have a secure background have been driven to feel that financial security and independence that they haven't had. So that was my drive. More than anything else. So I went into sales more and more in the fashion industry in the 80s. So that was the boom time. The fashion business went into footwear business industry. So you can either very what they call a squiggly career. I mean, I did have no plan, no idea what I was doing. And so I went into the fashion footwear business with my cousin. And I became sales manager at the age of 21. And I was driving right round the country selling off samples. I mean, you talk about hard work and just to the grindstone. I mean, I, I was really working hard. I made some good money. Then I flipped into the publishing industry. I mean, you can get more books. Well, apart from, you know, photographs and fashion of fashion, I went into publishing. I was head hunted, so to speak, for you to start a contract publishing arm. And I ended up selling advertising space. The Haab no sales environment with guys. About 90 percent of them were guys sitting in a room smoking. In those days. I'm off to the pub at lunchtime and I'd go off with the media. I think, you know, then just a kind of short circuit. A lot of this. I bumped around in space, rode the crest of the wave of each wave of whether it was fashion, because then in the 80s we had the we had the crash. Now we had a publishing was on the up. And there was all sorts of wonderful things. I went to sporting events. Hospitality was just fun. And then I went into I.T.. So, you know, when the dot com boom started and I actually when doffs which was around, I was I was one of the first people in the software training industry working for a franchise in London from Atlanta, Georgia.

[00:11:18] So I headed that up for the sales team in London. And then the U.K. found I was, you know, again, honing my skills as a salesperson. I ended up training some of the people in sales around me. And again, it was the dot com boom time. Patricia. It was, you know, the time when you couldn't not make money. I had no idea about technology. I still don't. If I'm honest. And but I just knew how to connect with people. So that was that was that. So where are we? So the dot com boom and bust and then I previously taken a Dale Carnegie course when I was 21. And it had just just changed my whole view on me as well. So this is where I started believing in myself. Somebody else believed in me more than I did. And I know what is the deal.

[00:12:23] Dale Carnegie course forever.

[00:12:25] Dale Carnegie, of course, is Merican. He wrote the book How to Win Friends and Influence People back in 1936. I think it was and it's still be one of the most prolific early read books. And so Ballard now do. And what it did is it gave me tools and the confidence because it's all around public speaking. And that's, you know, when you talk about where did my when rule talks perhaps start? It started way back. This is the perfect storm. We kind of came to fruition because of a number of events coming together.

[00:13:02] But it started in my ability to start to speak up to find my voice, which is what I didn't have for many years since I was a child. To realize that actually I could influence and I could speak and I could have the courage to put myself out there. And so it boosted my confidence. So at the same time of when I've joined the technology company, the trading company, my my career just flew. I was having a lot of fun. My confidence was there. But I think, you know. When things fell to on rocky foundations. You know, the cracks in the mortar of the building can start to show you. If you don't dig those root, there's foundations out to rebuild.

[00:14:00] And that's that's simply what happens after a while. I was working really hard just to make money. I then decided I wanted to go into the training industry full time. So I went to work for Dale Carnegie. I opened the office in Windsor in the UK, and I then started to run seminars, which is then when I really found that I loved connecting with people and speaking up and speaking from the halls. And coaching people. And then you want me to go see Joy? Yeah, this is good.

[00:14:37] I mean, it does it does lead way into kind of what you did and how you were doing. How long did you carry that position?

[00:14:45] For a few years, this bit sort of vague about a few years, but I have been connected. Patricia with Dale Carnegie since I say 1988. So you could probably guess my age now.

[00:14:58] 1988 to still I'm partnering with them with Robert talks as well. Because what they did is was fundamentally changed. Was the change was permanent. So a number of the things that I'm working with now. Best practice is based on that. Yeah.

[00:15:15] So by unpacking of that, I want to skip over to because I kind of want to end with Unpacking Rocks Talks Academy, but I really want to get into your hosting of the Women in Business Awards. So really quickly for everyone listening. What is it. And how long you served as the host and how and why were you selected to host those awards?

[00:15:36] Okay, I'll start with a selection how that came about, because I just very quickly. I had my son. Things were going well. I was coaching one to one self-employed. And I have been since then. And then I got married. I did everything round also about face. My mother would call it, you know, I did things the wrong way around. Got married off I. Yeah. And then not long. You know, it was any of a short lived marriage. Got divorced. That was very painful. When I said the cracks started to show, that's when they started to show I self my anxiety.

[00:16:12] I was going through menopause and I pretty soon realized I was having a nervous breakdown, which I did, which was, you know, looking at a drawer full of pills that I didn't want to take. What was it? Another defining moment? I had to make a decision to do something. So having met the owner of the business magazines some years before. I got out one day, literally out of my chair, feeling absolutely paralyzed, picked up my phone, and I phoned him because I had a son who I had to look after. No one was paying for him but me and my finances were going backwards. And I was stuck and really wasn't sure what I was going to do about it. So something just propelled me into action. I just got up. I phoned David Murray and I said that to David. I think I've got some ideas for you, how you could expand your business ideas with your awards and your events because of my facilitation. And could I have some time with you to show you what I think that we can do together?

[00:17:28] And.

[00:17:31] He agreed and. He gave me an opportunity that not there wasn't an opportunity, that it wasn't a joke. I just created something. I created a need. And so that's one of the things that I think women, you know, we as women absolutely need to be doing. Moral is creating a need seeking. Finding and filling it rather than waiting until we're asked. Until we're ready. Until something comes up. So I. I sold myself and sold the idea. He then gave me three campaigns to run part time. So I was part time. He was playing me. I'm one of them was the Women in Business Awards now, which I have never, ever been interested in these women's groups, women's stuff. I think probably because I've never seen or felt that I've had any difficulty with in a man's world. Perhaps I used to, dare I say, my sexuality, my my you know, my charm. To my advantage. Rightly or wrongly, it worked for me and most of my clients, my customers were men. And so, you know, I this was alien to me and it was like ladies who lunch was not my thing. So I was kind of doing it because I liked the idea of of speaking, being in an audience and raising my profile. And I knew that the only way to raise my profile and start to get noticed.

[00:19:04] What I do is to step forward to grab this opportunity with both arms, which I did. So I started hosting the first one, which was then there was a second year and ever done it. And we had lots of sponsors. It was 2015 and was first time being on stage like that, you know, in front of two 300 people.

[00:19:34] And it was quite daunting. But I, I really broke a fear of standing in front of people. And that's a lot of conversation. Maybe some time, you know, about standing in front of an audience was one of the biggest fears that I ever had. Like a lot of people, I was humiliated as a child in front of my father, in front of groups of his friends. So I had this blog and I was determined to overcome it. So this was a real big one for me. So over the last five, five 1/2 years, I've been hosting and growing the campaign. So it's not just the awards, it's the whole writing, the newsletters, putting everything on the Web site, interviewing some really successful, amazing women. And I soon realized this is why it's come to this now, is I really realized how much women we as women tend to, I say, tend to not everybody hold ourselves back.

[00:20:35] Yeah. So that got me into the women and Business Awards and the hosting. So I started to build my profile, make amazing connections, interview lots of amazing women and start to kind of build a picture, not just from my own experiences of what it stands for, what we will talk stands for, which how I can come on to the reason for it. The drive for it.

[00:21:00] But, you know, I started realizing the DNA that could be captured with women who are successful to each of those.

[00:21:09] I think it's remarkable, too, that you came at it from this like, you know, you didn't feel incredibly blighted with your career, you know, based with the gender parity and disparity issues. Yeah. There's so many people talk about, I think, unique. And it's a brave platform to have to say I didn't really feel maybe I was using things to my advantage, but it worked for me. So I am curious now. Can we kind of I'd like you to unpack Raw Talks Academy. It was founded recently in 2019 with your love infancy endeavors are so fun, but it sounds like it was born out of like axiomatic principles that you were doing prior to that with the business magazine awards and things like that. So can you kind of like walk us through how it was developed? You also do it in partnership with and with the business magazine owner, or was this a separate thing where he's been very supportive of it and it's sort of run alongside?

[00:22:07] It is my own venture. And so, you know, I think what it comes at the core of it is about finding your voice. It is about courage. And it is about three things I did. I so I created a system, Latricia, that I identified as sort of I unpacked everything that I had done in my life. So this is, you know, wasn't an overnight success and still isn't. But it's it's something that I still look at. What have I achieved and how have I done it? How have I overcome things? And. To to then identify those processes and the mindset, the techniques that I use. And at the core of it is those two things, finding your voice and having the courage to act. I think that a lot of women, as I say, tend to we hold ourselves back, waiting to be ready, waiting until we're sure and waiting until we feel like it's waiting to be asked. Waiting until the all the lights turn green. We hesitate. We tend to think over and analyze underestimates our values. So there's so many statistics out there. And I started to read up about how women have held themselves back because they only go for something unless they're 80 percent ready or feel that they are ready. You know, someone a friend of mine said to me, a male friend, he said, you know what? Men have more of a subject button than women. You know, they have a kind of the more willing to kind of go for something. Yeah. Yeah. Rule talks is stands for real, authentic women. And what I can see in a lot of women, including myself, which is my journey as much as anybody's. Is to stop wearing masks, to start to rob and be fine when everyone says, how are you? You say, I'm fine. And we all know what that means. It's fucked up, insecure, neurotic and emotional. Or someone else has said is feelings inside not expressed. A lot of women have a voice, so they want to say something. They have ideas, but they hesitate waiting to think that I might be taken seriously. Overlooked for promotion, and this about time we stepped up, spoke up and identified these three areas, if you like. I believe everybody needs to master if they want to get ahead. But in particular, women know this. This is a game changer. I'm not one is to inspire the ability to inspire others. The ability to influence others. And the ability to impact change. So will the skills and the processes of the system are geared to support women in doing those three things?

[00:25:09] I got a lot of inspiration from at the core of this is I identified one thing that enabled me and I say enabled me. I empowered myself because this is one of the things that I know that I love. I come back to this, but. I accept the awards evening once, and this guy said to me. Young guy, he said, you know what, women have got to stop pointing the finger at everybody else, I'm saying they've got to change. You know, they they've got to and I. And I just looked at him knowing I was hosting a in business, he knew that, so hence the he brought it up. I looked at him and I said. Really? And you said women really got to be the change. They've got to be that that influence rather than waiting for other people to change. And I thought he's absolutely right. How? I have never it remind me of my career. I've never waited for somebody else to change. But I had to be that influence, that change in me. So I. I truly believe that they talk about empowering women. This is the this is the subtitle to everything. Women Empowerment and how companies are empowering women. And they don't. How can they? They can allow them to do to empower themselves. Only women can take charge to give themselves the authority to change. So my system is ultimately the ultimate self empowerment, personal power empowerment system because it's women taking charge for themselves and in a way not wasting time until they give them permission to. And that, to me, is how we can make change happen on a large scale. So the system, the academy is is about teaching women the skills, the courage, and ultimately to help them to find that voice and use it. So the core of this is this is a is a something I call it the power of three activation for me that was inspired. I have to say by Mel Robbins, her five second rule, however, comma. I realized that with a different process to this, and actually five seconds takes me three seconds to talk myself out of something. And if you can actually get out of your head into action and you can get out of your head and without overthinking in a way that is quick, that engages. Exactly. But you're locked in mental jail. For me, it was locked down for a lot of people as being mentally locked down. You know, I put myself in solitary confinement in my head for a long time. And what we have to do is to to break out of. Mental lockdown. And to get into action rather than carping, paralyzed by fear and anxiety. Yeah. And as I was so so the power of reactivation of formula. I teach the core of everything. So it is a formula, a three step process of becoming present and really being aware of your instincts. Being aware of the instincts to act. So whether you have an idea, then you have to put your hand up in the meeting. And you have that instinct to do that rather than what a lot of people do, is to kind of work for the break. Some say, should I put my hand up? Should I say something at the moment? Gone. Rather than not has to to follow your instincts and to count backwards three to one and physically move through the physical movements, changes your mindset as far as mental expounds is engaging your prefrontal cortex so that you can actually make those physical changes in that moment. This few seconds, an act, as you know, that's probably one of the drivers that most people will say from the testimonials you might see is somebody got rid of the excuses is to act on instinct, to honor your instincts with deliberate action so that if you like, the power of three, which is at the core of everything, and I think that is for me, the. The thing that I look back at, yeah, that's what's caused changes in my life. Yeah, I'm curious about.

[00:29:55] So I had the opportunity to read some pieces, some comments and testimonials from your previous clients. And it sounds like a continuous theme is that they all feel like you have offered them at, you know, a roadmap to self empowerment and also that you yourself lead by example that you're this very powerful speaker and things of that nature. And it caused me to kind of consider your client profile even further. And I'm curious to go noticed any trends even prior to officially launching, you know, Raud Talks Academy. Do you find that you have like a very niche or specific profile of individual that you work with? Or does it span all industry and genre? Like, how does that work for you? Have you.

[00:30:43] Good question. Yeah, that's a good question. Tricia B.. Profile of. My clients is women. I mean, that is the main profile of my clients. I say from I identify this, everyone suffers from the same things to a smaller or greater degree.

[00:31:12] And it's not just women who are all returning to work, not your career break, you lack confidence. It is potentially women who are starting out in their career as graduates. Women tend to still have those those fears and those doubts. I'm not sure where that's come from, whether that's a biological or that's your nature. You know, there's a lot to be said for looking into all of that. There's also aspiration. I'd say aspirational women are my my target audience. Anyone who is looking to influence, looking to find their voice, wanting to get ahead and is willing to commit to doing something and confronting situations. And part of this course in the program, the 12 week program that I'm now I'm now launching next month is a pilot when I piloted last year and very powerful program because it starts off with the first eye, which is inspiration. Now everybody wants to eat to inspire others around them. And I took my inspiration rather than motivation, because inspiration is the rocket fuel for this thing, for any endeavor. And if women want to to raise their profile, they want to be seen to be more influential. They first need to look at themselves and be inspirational. And so that's one of the things that women tend that I found tend to do, is they downplay their assets than strengths. So what I do is confront them with. Looking at what they've got going for them, you know, that's reminding them, rediscovering that that part of them, that they. They realize this is a strength. Take them through a five step process of self discovery and that when they come out of that and it's experiential, it's not theoretical process. So my coaching just to kind of the way it works and why it's so transformational is that I use best practice coaching in the sense of I use specific ways of disrupting and challenging their thinking. And then I do a little coaching in the Vegan.

[00:33:36] So from my Dale Carnegie days, it's all about stand and deliver. Well, maybe now as I sit and deliver an online book, stand and deliver, it is about building confidence through public speaking. So I coach them in the moment so they can actually feel the transformation and I challenge them to be better. Be bold. Be brave. And so take them out of their comfort zone is where the magic happens, I say, and you're right, it's it's it's something that I haven't I haven't by any means got to where I want to be. But also I'm also very conscious. This is my journey to I struggle and I'm very honest about it. I'm very transparent. Like you said, you are transparent, you know, very honest. This is about being authentic, but being vulnerable and being brave. To be doing that, the only way that you can inspire and connect with other people is by being those things. So that's what the program teaches. You know, this is our struggle, just as everybody else does still that and like you being very akin and, you know, human.

[00:34:49] Much like your clients, I'm wondering how is your process sounds? Very much so. Like it's about self identity awareness. And then these lily pad action item approaches as to how to change through the eyes. They're inspiring and and impacting and all of those things. But I'm wondering to that. And it sounds like, you know, it's it's kind of micro goal making to kind of get your behavior to change. And with you yourself, as you likened yourself to your clients just now. Do you find yourself transforming as the time goes on that you continue to kind of coach people in this? Do you find your theory's kind of retaining or accelerating in their clarity? And if so, how is that shaping your future goals with what you're going to do with the academy?

[00:35:39] So what I think you are what you say, because it was a little bit. I got a noise in the background. Is that because this is evolving? Is that is that really. Yeah.

[00:35:53] Setting is so I'm young. If the if if you have evolved as an adviser to your clients and if so, has that changed the future of where you're headed.

[00:36:04] I think, you know, well, I'm very excited about the fact that I don't have to be the person standing up that I am, Patricia. This is probably you know, you've hit the nail on the head. I see. And I talk about other women. They say they will go to talks. They'll listen to some very well known. Whether it's Michelle Obama, whether it's for Winfrey, or they'll have some iconic equal over the U.K. businesswoman because listen to get inspired. But inspiration tends to disappear, tends to sort of weaken as they leave the auditorium or they leave. That's because what they're saying to themselves is I could never be like that. So what I want from this academy is about storytelling, that hearing other women's stories in a way that is about then sharing it with passion and practice to inspire other women, saying I'm not nothing special. This is my story. And but this is where I've come from. So. For me, it's about the ordinary, I say ordinary, exceptionally ordinary woman.

[00:37:20] Who has an extraordinary capacity to share the.

[00:37:29] The golden nuggets of wisdom that are being hidden because they haven't had the courage of confidence to speak up. So this is about. So they learn to tell students about storytelling. So every session that they work through is they tell a story. They learn how to frame it and learn how to deliberate with passion and purpose. And finding their purpose as part of this. Is when you've got that, you've got inspiration. You become unstoppable. So that's the final icing on the cake. The Road Teams Academy will be something I'm launching next year. Hopefully it'll be something that if we can all go back on stage. Quite an amazing national program. And it's about sharing, watching people's journey from. From being sort of perhaps less confident person to being an inspirational speaker and seeing that person transformed because that's what inspires people, not maybe the Michelle Mon's or the current Bradys we have over here. Yeah. Been there. Done it. It's seeing someone actually grow. So I hope that people will see me evolve. You know, because, yeah, that's a pressure on myself to do that. I have to. I got to do what I'm asking other people to do. Absolute lockdown. That's exactly what happens, because I'm natural's for my notable line, libeled line. I'm totally out of my comfort zone. This is not where I want to be. Yeah. So there's another test.

[00:39:19] Absolutely. And I think a lot of people who can and are able to and fortunate enough to receive it that way and do it are growing. You know, and I think that's one of the offshoots that I very timidly try and proffer up, you know, as as nothing good ever came from pandemic. But something good frequently comes from the human struggle. You know, and and so within that, I think that we can kind of openly talk about those things. And it sounds like you've endeavored with that as well. Well, Tamsin, we're running out of time and we're at my favorite parts. For everyone who listens to my podcast regularly knows that I am unabashedly honest about the idea that this final question of mine, I don't change. And. And I've asked it of a million people. So I will ask you now today. I'm curious if you had a young woman or female identified or non binary individual approached you in a park or a garden tomorrow at a safe social distance and say, Oh, Tamsin, I'm so glad I found you. So check it out. I've had this career that has been this beautifully winding road throughout all of these different industries. I started off, you know, really wanting to be in fashion and was to some degree. And then I climbed through all of these different endeavors. I learned through marketing, I was very turned on to this course that I took and then worked for. I did it all of these different things. And now I'm getting ready to kind of launch my own enterprise and utilize all of the skills and the pieces of knowledge and and expertize and put it all together with the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now.

[00:40:54] OK. Since when did you say top three? Yes. OK. So I would I would absolutely tell her to find someone who is going to not take any excuses but is willing to push her because even eagles need to push mount. The second the second thing is to.

[00:41:21] To speak up.

[00:41:24] To absolutely speak up and find the courage to do so. I would say using this, I would I would chair that three step process with her of the formula, because in the moment of making a decision to step outside of your comfort zone, you have to have courage. And it's about the little things. So is having finding the courage to speak up. And I would say that thing would be. And there are lots of things I would say. It's about. I mean, I could squeeze a fourth one and be sure to yourself. To add to find your purpose. Two, to pursue finding a purpose. And when you do sue it all your might. Yes. Don't wait until you're my age, huh?

[00:42:20] I think you're killing it. So. And I love age. I've decided I'm very proud. I'm forty three. I think that a lot of my audience probably even knows my birthday by now because I don't think that you can accomplish what I've accomplished without being around 43. So to pretend to be happy young would be to be unaccomplished. And I would trade up any day. So I have your top three as find someone who won't accept excuses and push you. No. To speak up and find the courage to do so. And number three, be good to yourself and find your true purpose.

[00:42:56] Yes, I love those.

[00:42:57] I know you have a name for because I know what I'm going to be tapping into your zone of genius as to all of that. And so I thought it might be pressing you a bit hard. And I think it was beautifully done. I love those. And I want to say, Tamsin, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I know you're busy. Everyone is at once. Thank you. At home and available, but also very busy. And I really appreciate you taking the time, giving us your honest rhetoric.

[00:43:20] Appreciate you having me on. I've really enjoyed the time with you. Thank you, Patricia.

[00:43:25] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Tamsin Napier-Munn. You can find out more on raw talks, Academy dot com. And thank you for giving me your time today.

[00:43:36] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I sit down with Jessika Noda. Jessika is the Founder of Jiyubox, a clean beauty subscription box and online shop featuring Indie beauty brands. Jiyubox came to fruition in search of breaking free from the nine to five and following her life's goals and passions. Jessika is also the Founder of Jiyu Management which helps passionate entrepreneurs and side hustlers build meaningful communities. She is passionate about helping her peers and community to become their best self and strive for success.

Key points addressed were

Jessika’s varied occupational story that led to her launch of the clean beauty subscription box that is Jiyu box
We also discussed how she designed the process and curates the content of the box as well as how she defines key terms such as Indie Beauty, Cruelty Free, and Clean for the Jiyu box’s products

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with founder of Jiyubox Box, Jessika Noda, key points addressed where Jessika has varied occupational story that led her to launch of the Clean Beauty subscription box that is Jiyubox box. We also discussed how she designed the process and curates the content of the box, as well as how she defines key terms such as indie beauty, cruelty free and clean for the Jiyubox boxes products. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jessika Noda.

[00:00:32] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts, regardless of age, status or industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I'm elated to be sitting down with Jessika Noda. She is the founder of Jiyubox Box, a clean beauty subscription box and online shop. You can find out more about her products and her company as well. The other endeavors that we talked about today on w w w dot j. I y you box dot com g. You box dot com. Welcome, Jessika.

[00:01:54] Thank you for having me, Patricia. Excited to be here.

[00:01:57] Absolutely. I'm excited to unpack everything. We talk a little bit off-line before we started recording and I can't wait to kind of unearth what do you box does and all of that. We've had a lot of audience members write in about people who have kind of the accountability sustainability efforts that you look towards for everyone who is new to the podcast. I will give you a quick roadmap of where our line of inquiry will head today. And then I'll read a quick file on Jessika. Before I start asking her my questions. So the road map for today's podcast will follow the same trajectory as all of those in this series. We look at four main constituents. One of them is the first one. Her academic background and early professional life leading up to the founding of Jiyubox box. And then we'll look at unpacking. Do you box? We'll get into the logistics of when it was founded, how funding all of those things. And then we'll look towards the ethos and the philosophy of the company. Then we'll turn to unpacking and looking at goals that Jessika has for you box for the next one to three years. That's a conversation that's changed for a lot of people given the recent Cauvin 19 pandemic. We'll wrap the entire podcast up with advice that just came. We have for those of you who are looking to get involved with her efforts or perhaps emulate some of her career success. So, as promised, a quick bio on Jessika. Before I start asking her questions, Jessika is the founder of Jiyubox Box, a clean beauty subscription box, an online shop featuring indie beauty brands. Jiyubox Box came to fruition in search of breaking free from the nine to five grind for Jessika. Jessika is also the founder of Jehu Management, which helps passionate entrepreneurs and site hustlers build meaningful communities. She is passionate about helping her peers and community to become their best self and strive for success. So, Jessika, I was telling you prior to jumping on this call that I got on your Web site, and I do love it and I always like to tell people on air so people can check it out. I'm kind of a connoisseur or an appreciator of good Web sites. I hit I like close to two million a week. And when I come across one, that's really well done and elegant. I like to state that. So kudos to that. And I think that that kind of welcomes your your potential customer and client in so beautifully. But prior to kind of unpacking the Jiyubox box and and all of that, I want you to, if you would, describe, like your academic background, early professional life leading you to this point.

[00:04:15] Yeah, so when I mean, starting from the beginning, I first wanted to be a physiotherapist, sport science. Grew up playing sports, was in physio a lot. And it's like, OK, I want to help people. This is great. I'm going to do this. And I ended up failing Cam one hundred and. Well. It's not for me anymore. I hated science. And so then I kind of took a blind turn and went to an info session and it was on marketing. And at the time it was tourism marketing. It's like, well, I like to travel. So I was going to try it. And, you know, I was 18 or 19. So I did that. I ended up graduating with just a general business and marketing degree. And I went into my first job as a travel agent, and that was great. But what I found was that the travel industry is very hesitant and resistant to change. So I was working and booking people on their flights and their vacations on a system that was built in the nineteen eighties. So I was like hard coding in these different types of flight and there's no there isn't. You could get through your entire day without using mouse. It was all it was like those black screens with like green text on it. It was awful. So and everyone in that industry is kind of they're in their 50s and they're just doing it forever. So then one change. And what happened after bad is I kind of got tired of being in an industry that was resistant to change. So I ended up going into tech and I went into tech sales. At first I was working in a company that I was working with a lot of Winsor's with your tuba. So that was quite interesting. And then I moved into a more, I guess I would say, hardcore software sales position working, doing audit management software. And to be honest, I still couldn't really tell you what auditing is and how it works. So that's I was I was quite miserable at that job. I was working East Coast time and I work I live in the West Coast, so it was just not working out for me. And I kind of hit my my breaking point as like, well, you know, do I fit this job and make really good money in sales and be miserable or do I just try something? I've kind of got I'm still young. I've got time on my hands. Why not just try this? And so I ended up leaving the nine to five job and starting new management, which at the time was more about marketing. But I quickly realized that especially in Vancouver, and I'm sure and basically in all of North America, it's a quite a saturated market. And unless you're very passionate about it or an expert at it, you're going to have a really hard time finding clients and building up that business. So after about, I would say, six months of that, I was again miserable and I decided, OK, do I go back to a nine to five job and be miserable and make money? Or do I stick this out and really give it a good shot of being an entrepreneur and kind of running my own life? And I kind of decided as like, OK, well, what what do I really care about? What am I really passionate about? And it came back to me was skin care and beauty and makeup. And, you know, I that's when I was in high school. I was always watching these YouTube videos. And at that time there was never really a career folks giving into the beauty industry. You really only do it by making your own products. So I at that time, it wasn't feasible. But now in this day and age, there's so many different options. And so I think I was actually watching a YouTube video of someone unboxing during one of those PR hauls or something like that. And it's like I could do that and I could do that better. So that's kind of the spark of how you got started.

[00:08:14] That's amazing. So let's get into unpacking it. How was. I love that you've kind of bounced around and recovered and people of frequently view, you know, peppering of a bunch of different industries is a problem or lack of commitment. And I think it requires bravery. And it also offers this incredible seasoning to anybody who's experienced different industries. And the conversation with itself is key with most founders and to have a very fluid dialog with one's internal processes. But also it's you have peper different industries is always it's never been beneficial to anyone from an artist to, you know, a geophysicist. So I think it's fantastic that you did. And that's part of your story. I want to unpack. Do you box now? So really quickly, the logistics, when was it founded? Did you have co-founders? Did you take funding? Was it bootstrapped?

[00:09:07] So I founded in June of twenty nineteen. So we're actually just over a year old now. I am the sole founder. However, my boyfriend is a very big influence on the way the branding has gone.

[00:09:20] So we talk about that a lot. He's almost like an unofficial co-founder. And it's then bootstraps. No, no funding. No, no extra family and friends help.

[00:09:32] Amazing. Did you find any of it with your previous endeavors, or was it all just like as you went along?

[00:09:40] It's kind of I mean, I had a bit of a savings fund, but I do a little bit of, you know, consulting work on the side, which you managements. There were any all of my income is really going towards funding junior boxes. That's kind of the end goal is to just be working on your box.

[00:09:54] Did you did you launch it moonlighting with a different career or our job or did you quit what you were doing and sync all of your efforts solely into it in twenty nineteen?

[00:10:06] At the time, it was all of my efforts. And I quickly realized that I was running out of money. So I took on a part time remote job and I do still have that. So that's kind of also funding it. And they think, you know, from the outside, it looks very glamorous and it looks like a very well put together company. But in the background, it's me running around doing three different jobs, trying to just make ends meet.

[00:10:31] Yeah, absolutely. As one does in the infancy of any startup, I'm wondering. So Web sites, is it states that the word to you means freedom in Japanese? And D-Box stands for the freedom to explore and enjoy our lives while also living a life free from toxins, fillers and animal cruelty. And I feel like that and embodies, you know, a lot of the philosophy and ethos of your brand. Can you kind of unpack? So for people listening or watching this on the Vodcast, when someone lands your site, what are you hoping that they first notice? And what he what is like that, the site intending to do for your customer and then also kind of unpack the box for us, literally. Like what? Intel's.

[00:11:17] Yeah. So when you first get to the site, I, I kind of picture the site as it looks. High end, but it is still affordable and I fiddle with saying this, but it is quite the affordable luxury.

[00:11:32] So usually clean duty is more on the high end side. You've got your you know, there are brands that have cleansers for one hundred dollars, which they're great. But, you know, that's not always in everyone's budget. So the idea is to make it fuel and look like your your purchasing and engaging with something that's lovely, but something that's still attainable for everyone.

[00:11:53] And the idea behind that is just, you know, growing up, our parents don't really know any better. They were buying all the all the stuff with that had a lot of toxins in it. And I think today's in today's day and age, everyone is much more educated on what they're putting into and onto their bodies. So I want to kind of create a more of an educational platform for people.

[00:12:14] So we do a blog post every week on different topics within Clean Beauty. We interview the brands that we have in the box. So we want to make it eventually grow into not just being an e-commerce platform, but also a place for education to learn more about the ingredients and the brands that you're purchasing from. And in terms of unpacking the box, we we're a seasonal subscription. And the reason why I did that was today everyone is so inundated with so much stuff. And I am quite a minimalist.

[00:12:52] I don't use a lot of products. Of course, I'm testing a lot of things out all the time. But in my regular routine, it's really not that long. And to be honest, I'm a little bit lazy. I don't like to do so. All of these steps every night, every morning. So I did it as a seasonal thing. And they are full size so that in that three months, do you have time to really try everything rather than sometimes when you get sample size things? It's nice. You can't actually tell if it works because sometimes the samples just don't last long enough. So I did it every season so you can really fully try everything out.

[00:13:27] And then by the time the next season comes around, you're ready for something new. And we did it, by the way, I curate the box is by season. So our skin changes every season in the wintertime, especially here in Vancouver. It's so dry and cold, whereas in the summertime it is pretty hot and humid. So your skin's really looking for different things throughout the year. So that's kind of what I based the contents of the box around. And so when I'm looking to source different products for the box, first of all, I'm looking for I'm thinking I think about what products people and skin is looking for during that season. And then I go out and find brands that have that product that fit our criteria.

[00:14:12] So is it a rotating brand or do you use one until you find one that's better. How are you curating what makes it into the box?

[00:14:21] So I obviously I have a whole Rolodex and list of vendors that I would like to work with.

[00:14:27] But like I said, so for example, for summertime, I'm probably not going to put a heavy body creep in there that might be better for wintertime. So once I've decided what's what type of product is going the box, I'll go through my kind of Rolodex of vendors I like to work with and see if they have a product that fits our ingredients, fits our branding as well, and also fits to the price points. And then on top of that, I'm always searching on Instagram and I'm always looking at ads as well that come up for your new brands. And so, of course, I've got a huge saved folder on my Instagram. I've got tons of screenshots of different types of ads that come up. And then on top of that, I have gone to I went to the Indie Duty Expo last year and this year actually in January of twenty nineteen and was able to meet a lot of vendors in person and test out their products. So finding the brands comes from accumulation of a lot of different resources.

[00:15:30] Absolutely. I'm curious. I want to kind of unpack some terms for people listening who don't haven't heard of any of them before.

[00:15:36] Your site uses the following like phrases a great deal. And I'm hoping you can kind of describe what you mean by them personally. So you just mentioned indie beauty and they haven't. But I kind of want to unpack what that means for you, what indie beauty is and what you what you personally feel by you talk about being clean and cruelty free. And and so I'm hoping that we can kind of like what do those terms mean to you? Even though sometimes they seem transparent, they mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, particularly when it comes to beauty. So let's start with you. What does that term mean for you?

[00:16:10] So indie do for me are smaller brands who are not necessarily in the big box stores like a Sephora. And one of the reasons why is because I was kind of like, well, why would anyone buy a box if you could just go to Sephora online and grab it? And the other reason is because of being able to support other small businesses. So there's a lot of different terms for indie beauty, but in general, it means that it's a company that's usually bootstrapped. Maybe they got some, you know, loans from the bank, but they don't have investor funding and it's usually run, founded and owned by the original owner. So they don't have, like, a huge board of people running it. It's not like a L'Oreal where you've got this shoot like it's a very big glummer. They're usually local businesses who might my your next door neighbor who had started making soaps in her house and it started to grow her company. So being able to have that community aspect and, you know, some of the indie beauty brands, they are large. They they've been around for three, five, seven, 10 years, but they're still considered indie because they are still run and owned by the original founder.

[00:17:28] Right. Yeah. Okay. Now, let's get into what do you mean by clean when you talk about clean products? What how is that term like? What makes it into that.

[00:17:38] Yeah. So clean beauty is it's such a a blanket term. And when I actually first launched the company, I started off by marketing that we were all natural. And I did that because what happens in the industry is clean is a very flexible marketing word that a lot of companies use. And so I had originally gone with all national because there's a little bit more specific, because if you look up clean beauty, there's this thing called greenwashing, where when you say clean beauty or green beauty, you people automatically think, oh, it's fine, it's great for you. This is there's you. So in terms of clean beauty, what that means is not just necessarily having no, you know, sulfates or P G's or diametrical. It's not like it's not just removing the kind of the big bad ones, but it's also making sure that the ingredients are as close to their original format as possible. So, for example, something like citric acid. Usually it's an acid. So you usually find that in Citris like a lemon or an orange. And by and that is considered all natural. But what happens is it would take a ton of lemons to make just a little bit of citric acid to put into a skin care products. So that is something that we allow to be made in a in a lab or in a manufacturer because it's just not feasible to harvest that many lemons to make into the product that you need. So that's kind of what we mean by clean beauty, is keeping it as close to the natural source as possible and something that you could find. From the earth.

[00:19:21] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:23] I'm wondering when you go into it, so on your website, when you go into the starter box and you kind of look at things, you talk about cruelty free, and that's another word that I feel like can be flexible with marketing, you know? And so I'm wondering, is it PETA certified that's in the States. I know you're in Canada. But what what are the criteria you use to have it be cruelty free? Because there are people that outsource, as you've kind of mentioned here, with the with the clean aspect, you can outsource a certain part of the process to the cruelty or animal testing, which I think a lot of people subscribe to. Cruelty free, which is not to cruelty free, can be animal testing of humane animal testing. So how do you look at all those and what are your criteria for calling it cruelty free?

[00:20:08] Yeah, surfer crawl through free means that it's not tested like the products are not tested on animals at all in any of any of the process. And so that means that any of the products that we have in the brand are tested only on humans. And it's interesting, I was reading a few articles a few months back and they've actually come back. Testing products on humans is actually much cheaper than testing it on animals as well. So along the lines of cruelty free, I will mention that most of the products do tend to be Vegan, although we do have products that do have honey in them. So for some people that might not be considered cruelty free, but for Jue box, we consider cruelty free as not testing on animals. But some products may have Honea and they may have got some milk in them. So they're not necessarily Vegan, but they're not tested on animals.

[00:21:05] Okay. And moving forward, I'm wondering, you're so new now. And so I'm sure that it's something that will come up as you kind of go along geo box. But have you considered that as you as you start to think of your customer? Have you considered, you know, a curation aspect for people who are and I mentioned this, a lot of people listening who follow my podcast know that I have a podcast based on Vegan life that started up last year. And it was it was just coincidental. It started actually prior to Kovik. But it's kind of been this huge platform since the Koven 19 pandemic. People have had to return to conversations with themselves and their realities about health.

[00:21:46] And the Vegan diet has kind of cut risen as this flagship, you know, of the way that a lot of people are turning to to resume health and encourage immune responses and things like that.

[00:21:58] I'm wondering, are you going to be able to. Do you foresee in your future with you box like curating to people who have stipulations like Vegan or allergies or things like that, where you can start to substitute things out? Or do you want to keep it just standard?

[00:22:16] For now, it is standard, however, if a customer has allergy or they are, they only use Vegan products. We just ask that they let us know ahead of time. So then if there is a product that is not that may have an ingredient that they're allergic to or is not Vegan and has no honey in it. We'll find a substitute for them.

[00:22:38] Yes. Nice. So I'm wondering, given that we were just kind of discussing and I was rather the covered 19 pandemic, I'm looking forward to like your future goals and things like that.

[00:22:50] This is a conversation that people have had that has changed for everybody that I know of. You have this online enterprise, which was it's kind of a beautiful thing because it should be able to be more sustainable than brick and mortar situations and do moving forward with your goals. Do you plan on staying solely online? Would you ever go into a brick and mortar situation? And also, what are your plans for the next one to three years with D-Box?

[00:23:16] I do plan to stay online. That being said, I do do pop ups. Sometimes I do. We'll go to events. So having maybe a longer term temporary pop up is something in the future. But for the most part, it is. It is online. And that's purely most a lot of it. It's logistics. To be honest, it's a lot to run a brick and mortar store and have people running it. And so during this pandemic, I realized how. Oh, lucky and grateful that I have an online business that I didn't have to worry about staff running the store.

[00:23:52] And, you know, a lot of the beauty companies that I see who do have the brick and mortar stores, they've had to implement a lot of these different types of measures, especially for things like testing out products. How are you going to do that? So I don't foresee us having a permanent brick and mortar store about pop ups are definitely in the future when we can kind of go back to those types of events for the next one to three years. I would really like to actually move our operations to the US. That's kind of on been on my radar for the last year.

[00:24:25] There's just in being in Canada. It's great. I got it. But in terms of shipping things, it's quite a headache. There's just not as many options in terms of just getting the logistics up and running. So it would make more sense to be based in the US. And I joke that's where I'm in in Vancouver. I'm only a two hour drive from the border. That is just two hours to help. It could've been a lot easier.

[00:24:56] So it's necessary that with the really quickly we're ready to returning to that kind of the same aspect when you talk about clean. So where are you guys? Where do you get like the manufacturing process and stuff like that for the boxes and things like that? Are those is that in Canada or is it outsourced? And will that stay the same? You're saying moving it to the US? US. I'm assuming it's happening. It's manufactured in Canada.

[00:25:25] Yeah, our boxes are manufactured in Canada. They're actually back there just to drive away from where I'm at. So they're a local company, which I really love working with it. It's really nice to be able to go in and meet the people who you're working with.

[00:25:40] And when we could, I would anytime I was working with a local vendor here, I would always try and meet them in person and learn more about their stories. Oh, our our boxes are all sourced from from basically Vancouver here.

[00:25:55] That's awesome.

[00:25:56] I know that that attempting part, even with people who are trying to be very conscious, if I environmentally sustainability, accountability with products, they eventually just get kind of seduced, you know, by outsourcing to, you know, other than the place. And it removes that, like, indeed, if you will, you know, mentality to the whole thing. And I think it's you know, a lot of people do it to stay afloat, to stay alive as the last day or even just as to increase profits in the future. But it's very cool and still kind of rare, you know, that you're staying local and things of that nature. So you're planning on switching it up and going to the states for production, but just to make it easier for the shipping.

[00:26:38] Yeah. And there's just you know, there's just a lot more people in the US and especially in the dairy industry. There's a lot a lot more industry in places like California. So that's kind of where we are eyeing. But just to be closer to that, and I find that it is more difficult as well to work with American brands than just shipping things across the border in terms of paying duties and just getting it across customs. And we're finding that most of our customer base is in the US. So, of course, they're not going for our Canadian customers, but it's just the logistics. It would be a lot easier to be based there.

[00:27:19] How is that process going? I haven't spoken to anybody from Canada that's like trying to shift over into the states. I've talked to one person that was shifting back the other way into Canada, dealing with protozoans, things that we're coming from up there.

[00:27:30] But is it difficult for you or is it an easy like as an American citizen? I don't as a United States citizen, I don't know how that process goes when you start to get to international situations. Have you started looking into it? Is it going to be a hard drive or will it be kind of a seamless transaction?

[00:27:49] It's not going to be too difficult. It's actually better for cost saving. Shipping from Canada to the US is extremely expensive. There are some alternative methods to shipping. There's a service that's really great at shipping to the US. But I worry that because I'm in Canada and sometimes the shipping can take a lot longer to the US. And, you know, I know Americans are much more used to getting things a lot quicker. I worry about having too much of a shipping time and that impacting the customer experience. So the whole goal is to make it a customer experience as seamless as possible. We don't want people waiting, you know, two weeks or more to get their packages. And so just being able to do that would be a lot better and help me sleep at night and make sure that these packages of the Red Cross and you wouldn't imagine how many nights I've had about worrying if a package is going to make it through customs. So just having those kind of things set in stone would be a lot easier.

[00:28:53] Absolutely. So you're you're planning on looking at moving operations down to at least having a hub in the United States. Do you have any other future goals in regards to growth or anything? Do you do like the traditional one to three year plan, five year plan, or are you kind of taking it a day at a time right now because it's still in its infancy?

[00:29:12] Yeah. So I have one year plan. I mean, the goal is to, of course, make it to at least five years. I know a lot of hits don't make it that far. So it is true because I'm so small and I've just got a team of two other people.

[00:29:28] It's really easy to pivot, which has worked in our favor, especially during the pandemic. Being a year old when the pandemic started, we were we had enough of a basis to be able to stay afloat during this and also not be large and not be too large that we had to completely let go of our entire staff. So the goal is to continue to grow. And we do want to basically double the scale for us for the next year. But I do see it being a small team. I don't see D-Box being this massive company with hundreds of employees. Ideally, actually, I'd like to keep it as small as possible because working in being in companies that are like startups and seeing how nimble you can be as a small team and being able to pivot when things change. I don't foresee it being like this massive company that. You have to run through all the troops. And, you know, when you have a PR crisis or something that happens, it's so quick to be able to make the decision. Whereas, you know, if you're in a large company, you'd have to run through all these hoops and ask all these people and get everything approved. So growing, doubling our sales, but while keeping the team as nimble as possible.

[00:30:43] Nice. That's. I think you're right about that. A lot of people don't consider that for some reason, there's this largely held belief that the stability comes with this massive size and incredible growth. And I think you're talk and you're right in talking about, you know, being nimble and staying flexible, you know, that being part of, like one of the crucial parts of startups is absolutely true.

[00:31:06] You know, I'm being revived. Both feast and famine, I think, is is much more easily navigated with a smaller team. That a lot. Well, Jessika, we're wrapping up our time together. And I want to now turn towards what my one of my favorite parts of the podcast is for people who have listened to me before. No. And that is I'm curious if you ran into someone from a safe social distance in beautiful Vancouver tomorrow at some park or garden, and they came up and said, oh, I'm so glad I found you. I know I've been told that I should ask you for some advice. Here's the situation. I've peppered a lot of different industries and I've realized and to a lot of different pains and trials that they were not for me. And I'm that if I'm going to go out on my own, I have this great idea for a startup and I'm going to get going tomorrow. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give? Let's say for certain, it's a woman female identified or non binary individual, anyone other than a white man.

[00:32:05] What are the three top pieces of advice you would give that individual? Knowing what you know right now.

[00:32:12] The first one is a little bit cheesy, but I would say that you want to be passionate about what you're doing, because if you're not passionate about what you're doing when you hit those hard times, it's going to be really hard. And what has kept me going through the hard times now is knowing that, you know, I do still really, really care about what I'm doing. And I think a lot of founders kind of you need to use that passion to fuel you because it's all, you know, bunnies and rainbows. When you first start like, oh, is this great? I'm like running my own business. I own my own time. I own my schedule. But when things get tough, when you're, you know, money's tight, you're kind of like, why am I doing this? If you're really not passionate about what you're doing, you really don't care about what you're doing. It's gonna be really tough and can be tempting to go back to that nine to five job and just be kind of complacent with what you're doing. So I'd say one is to be very passionate about what you're doing. And obviously that can evolve. So that goes back to the really commonly word use. Now it's pivot, but making sure that you really care about what you're doing. The second one is, I would say, to make sure that you have a very strong support system around you. I find that as you start to really get into your business, it's harder to relate to your your friends and your peers who do have the time to find jobs. And so they may not always understand why you can't go out for happy hour every Friday or why you're working on Saturday and Sunday and can't go to the beach. So making sure that you've got really strong friendships, who can support you through that and understand why you can't be there all the time? Because you won't. You're just not possible. And every time you go out and spend money on how they're like, oh, man, that was like 50 bucks, I could've used my own company. So I think making sure you've got a really strong network of friends. And then the third thing is I would say to. Grow, expand your network in terms of business and finding other people who are also in the same position as you and maybe a few years along. Because what I found really helpful is because my friends, who are nine to five jobs, they don't necessarily understand the struggles I'm going through. Also, having a network of people who understand what you're going through and you can kind of work through those pains and struggles together. And then having someone, you know, who maybe a couple years ahead of you being able to be there, still, they're not so big that they don't remember what it was like to start, but they've just got a couple more years ahead of you to remember and give you some advice on what worked for them when they were in your in your place.

[00:35:09] Yeah, I like that. That's awesome. All right. So I've got be passionate about what you do.

[00:35:13] Number one, have a strong support system of people who can relate or at least show patience with your current struggles. And then, number three, expand your network, particularly with those who are a little bit further ahead for like a move in aspect, which I completely concur with.

[00:35:31] I think that those are all really strong. And there are a lot of those are about, you know, developing this this community, you know, that kind of it's an ecosystem for startups, I think. And when you realize that and you realize that, you know, there are other things that help it rather than just endeavoring more work towards the startup, but also having social aspects in your other pieces of your life kind of tie into that and relate to it. They don't just help with, I think, staying alive, which is the goal.

[00:36:00] I think it also it really encourages the the joy one receives from the process, you know, and the potential gains in the education that can go along with it, as well as the pain, which I think a lot of people have very well iterated. You know, the pain of starting a startup and sleepless nights and things like that are frequently spoken of, but there can be no rush and things like that. And I think it's exacerbated when you when you do things like include social circles around that type of thing and not fight it, but rather bridge it with, you know, like minded individuals like you're talking about. So that's clever. And I like it a lot. Jessika, thank you so much for giving us your time today. I really appreciate you kind of unpacking, do you box and giving us your story.

[00:36:45] Thank you so much, Patricia. That was awesome talking with you today.

[00:36:48] Awesome. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Jessika Noda. She's the founder of Jiyubox Box, a clean beauty subscription box and online shop. You can find out more at w w w Jiyubox boxed outcome. That is j i y you box dot com. Thank you for giving me your time today.

[00:37:05] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am speaking with Susan Hunt Stevens. Susan is the Founder & CEO of WeSpire, an award-winning employee experience technology platform focused on engaging people in purpose-driven initiatives, ranging from sustainability to social impact, holistic wellbeing, and inclusive cultures. She founded WeSpire to use her digital behavior change expertise to help people embrace healthier and more sustainable lifestyles after her son was diagnosed with serious food allergies. She was named an EY Entrepreneur of the Year for New England, a Boston Business Journal Woman of Influence, and to the Environmental Leader 100 list. Prior to WeSpire, she spent 9 years at The New York Times Company, most recently as SVP/General Manager for Boston.com, a $60M digital media division.

Key points addressed were

The core tenants of WeSpire and their goal to help companies actualize integration and processes increasing aspects of company values, positive work culture, sustainability, well being, and social impact under each company’s unique purview

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with founder and CEO of Respire, Susan Hunt Stevens. Key points addressed were the core tenants of Respire and their goal to help companies actualize integration and processes increasing aspects of company values. Positive work culture, sustainability and well-being. And social impact. Under each company's unique purview. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Susan Hunt Stevens.

[00:00:31] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:28] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I'm elated to be sitting down with Susan Hunt Stephens.

[00:01:35] She's the founder and CEO of Respire. You can find out more about her and the products that we're talking about on w w w w we Spier dot com.

[00:01:44] Welcome, Susan. It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:48] Absolutely. I'm excited to look at the services that we Spier we're just talking off the record and the endeavors that you have within that company.

[00:01:55] And everything that you guys do is is so on the market right now. On trend for what? I think that a lot of the economy, especially the United States, is headed into and I can't wait to unpack that with you.

[00:02:05] And it's an interesting time, needless to say.

[00:02:09] Absolutely. Before we get into that, for everyone listening who might be new to this podcast, we will first read a bio on Susan prior to prepping her with questions.

[00:02:18] However, before I get to that, a quick roadmap to you all. Follow my line of inquiry. We will first look at unpacking Susan's academic background and early professional life that led her to founding Respire. Then we will also look at unpacking Respire itself. We'll start with the logistics, the who, what, when, where, how and why of the founding of it. Funding all of those things. And then we'll turn our efforts towards looking at the ethos and the philosophy of Respire and what the company is and stands for, as well as the utility of it and the different industries and audiences they serve. Then we'll look at goals that Susan has for this next one to three years in regards to Respire and perhaps herself personally. We'll wrap everything up with advice that Susan has for those of you who are looking to get involved with Respire or perhaps emulate some of her success as promised. Before we get into questions. A quick bio. Susan Hunt Stephens is the founder and CEO of Respire, an award winning employees experience technology platform focused on engaging people in purpose driven initiatives ranging from sustainability to social impact, holistic well-being and inclusive cultures. She founded Respire to use her digital behaviors change expertize to help people embrace healthier and more sustainable lifestyles. After her son was diagnosed with serious food allergies, she was named an e. Y Entrepreneur of the Year for New England, a Boston Business Journal Woman of Influence and to the Environmental Leadership Leader 100 list. Prior to We Spier, she spent nine years at the New York Times company, most recently as an SVP, general manager for Boston dot com, a 60 million dollar digital media division.

[00:03:59] So this is not so exciting and I kind of actually want to start there.

[00:04:02] I'm hoping that you can unpack your academic background and professional life leading you up to the founding of Respire.

[00:04:10] Sure. So in high school, my passion was journalism and I was fortunate enough to be at a high school in Spokane, Washington, with an outstanding journalism program and ended up editor of the school newspaper. I interned for ABC News. I went to college to be a journalist at Wesleyan University in Connecticut and worked for National Public Radio.

[00:04:33] And then about halfway through college, I realized that the starting salary for a journalist and my loans didn't match and needed to figure out something else to do.

[00:04:47] And so I tried one summer in government working in D.C. and realized that was not for me. And so got into business thanks to on campus recruiting and companies coming to recruit. But I've always had this passion for impact and feeling like your job needs to make a difference in this world. And so I remember having an offer for an investment bank to go work in investment banking and a consulting firm that was going to try to fix health care.

[00:05:18] And I think, you know, most would have chosen the investment bank and I picked health care. And if I look at my career and when I have been happiest and most fulfilled, it has been when I feel like the job that I am doing is connected deeply to making the world a better place for people. And I have had times where that was not true and it took having those kinds of jobs to make me realize this is impact thread throughout my career has been a really, really key one. And so I worked in management consulting for a health care consulting firm based in New York City, then went to business school, like many people do after three to four years of management consulting. So I went to the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth.

[00:06:01] And then that is when I said I really actually think I want to go back into journalism and but on the business side.

[00:06:12] And so I worked my two years in business school to figure out how to get onto the business side of journalism organization. My dream in Life had been to work for The New York Times and to make a very. Long story short, because it was not an easy path. I did manage to land a job at The New York Times after business school in this thing. It was just getting started, called the digital side of The New York Times. They didn't even let us in the main building. We had this really rather lame office space over about four blocks away, you know, and at the time, there were people who would literally say out loud that they thought the Internet was a fad. It was that early.

[00:06:56] But I realized is that I got to be on the ground floor of building a digital news business is one of the earliest employees.

[00:07:05] And, you know, one of the things that I did that will connect my Weese by our experience is that we wrote the very first white paper on behavioral advertising and how you can use digital behavior to target at two people. And that makes them more effective. And things like that. And so I've got to write that white paper. And that really was an exciting place to be. New York City, early days of digital and so exciting that people start calling and asking if you want to help start new businesses and be an entrepreneur. And so one of the things that I did is left The New York Times after a couple of years to go be a co-founder of a startup. And that has the other connection to what I'm doing now with Weeds. Fire is I was an entrepreneur for two years. I co-founded a company with an amazing woman who is coming out of Microsoft. And we wrote it two very high pinnacles. And then 9/11 wiped us out literally and figuratively. We had all of our hosting and data centers in the basement of one of the World Trade Center towers and lost everything that day. But we had our lives. And that is something that I'm always grateful for, is that I lost a startup in the context of people who lost so much more that day, you know?

[00:08:33] And I think that's another life lesson that you bring into entrepreneurship, is as long as you're still alive and healthy, you can you can crawl back from anything.

[00:08:41] Absolutely. And similar things are happening now. You know, I think with the pandemic where I count myself among the lucky ones, even with having projects and things like that postponed and changed with it, to have my health, you know, and things of that nature.

[00:08:56] I'm wondering if you can really quickly. The New York Times, I've spoken to a couple of people that have had affiliations and things like that, but the time period in which you were there is so iconic to outlets for all media. You know, the change that happened during that time paired with the advent of digital changed. I mean, you know, the people still talking about the change with the advent of the Internet are the news outlets are people still talk and nobody else even acknowledges the change anymore. So I'm wondering just really quickly, if you would, I'm kind of indulgence. Can you describe the work environment like the the ether? I think it has a lot of mystique around it. And there are a lot of people that attributed to Hollywood, Eske, you know, moments. But did you find it to be an equal opportunity workplace? Was it behind the times? There's a lot of those industries. You know, long before Fox News was FOX, that was that was kind of the old guard. There was a lot of sexism. There was a lot of inequality of representation. And since your current company kind of deals with these issues, you can speak to not The New York Times now, but back then for working there to that effort.

[00:10:02] Yeah, so.

[00:10:03] So I had my first two years at The New York Times that I left and did a startup. But after 9/11, I actually went back to The New York Times and I spent another seven years there, but up in Boston.

[00:10:14] So what a lot of people don't realize is the New York Times company actually not only on The New York Times newspaper, but at the time a lot of other regional properties. And one of their biggest regional properties was the Boston Globe and Boston Dotcom up here. So I am extraordinarily grateful for my time at The New York Times, especially once I was on the senior management team in the properties because it was hindsight, 20/20 and incredibly progressive environment. So we had a chief diversity officer. You know, at this point I was there. This would have been 17 years ago who was really working to ensure that the company broadly had a very good career passing for women and underrepresented minorities. And our CEO at the time, Janet Robinson, was female, head of advertising, was female. So I had really strong female role models in in the company for for leadership. In fact, the person I came to work for in Boston became the chief customer officer for The New York Times.

[00:11:25] She's amazing. And. I feel like as a female executive, I had three women, at least, if not more, that I could look to who were just really, really amazing people and really good at their jobs and who were navigating, to your point, a company through just a extraordinarily painful transformation process. As you know, the digital side was growing, but the economics of the ad model are just completely different.

[00:12:00] The economics on the consumer side were very different. You know, when I was there, we weren't charging for any of the content in either location.

[00:12:10] You know, ads, you know, per impression costs. Even in digital, we're starting to get disrupted by ad networks and things like that. And so you were seeing the switch from prints to digital. But what was falling apart was the business model at its core. And being in an industry where a business model is falling apart is is really challenging. Some people, you know, embrace that that change and can really navigate through it and other people just implode. And I saw bubbles happen.

[00:12:43] But what I was always convinced of in my heart to heart and still am today is that the world needs journalism organizations like The New York Times and anyone on the business side who worked there had to be committed to this idea that if we don't figure out how to keep what our newsroom does alive is regardless of which format it's in, then who is going to give a voice to people who don't have one? Who is going to stand and check the power of businesses who may be doing things that they shouldn't be doing or governments that are doing things that they shouldn't be doing? And so it was a very mission driven business organization, in my experience, who really felt like we had to figure this out in some way, shape or form. And what was interesting about being at the Times versus a regional property is that the idea of charging for the content was in credibly challenging and political. And there were people who wanted to and people who didn't want to and all of this. But there was always this sense that what the Times did was truly unique and therefore very chargeable. I think when you started to look at the regional properties, it it was a it was a much it was a harder set of numbers to run. They didn't come out as strong, you know, and so it was. I actually think it's a harder decision. It was a harder decision to charge at the regional properties than it was for The New York Times. And then The New York Times has been extraordinarily successful at it and has proven you can do it, which is great. But I think some of the regional properties are still struggling. You know, there's a lot of free substitutes to regional news.

[00:14:31] Well, and everything needs to be, I think, measured when it comes to the evaluation of something like that against a different metric.

[00:14:38] And I think it's this similar concept of real estate trying to develop numbers for like houses that are incredibly different, you know. Now, on these very disparate characteristics and everything has to be, I think, each unique metric unto itself, especially when it comes to something like a powerhouse, like the Times, it's still being kind of tweeted about by our president from time to time.

[00:15:01] So which just means it's having an impact.

[00:15:05] That they weren't having an impact. It wouldn't upset people so much. But it's you know, the one thing I did get to do when I was at Boston, at the Boston Globe in Boston, dot com is Marty Baron, who is the editor at The Washington Post with the editor here. And he was an incredibly forward thinking editor about digital and really was a strong partner for me on the digital side. And so, you know, there was never a question about, you know, time and energy and resources being put into digital. And he really encouraged his team to embrace digital and to think about what digital recording does and can look at. And so I think so much of that mine is. Who did you get to work with? And were they resistant to what digital could do? Or did they see digital as a new opportunity for storytelling?

[00:15:57] Absolutely. And what a world that changed without maybe even having the foresight of that. I want to turn now to unpacking Respire, and I want to start with the logistics. So if you can tell us when it was founded. Who were the original founder? If it was you, other co-founders or additional sub founders, things of that nature. And did you take funding when you initially started out or was it bootstrapped?

[00:16:18] Yeah.

[00:16:18] So in I left the New York Times company in the fall of 2009, and then we Spier was a. Really incorporated in February of 2010. And my co-founder was Jason Butler, who I had worked with at Boston Acom, and then a few months later, another woman, Seraphine Robinson, joined the team as one of the members of the founding sort of group of people sitting around my dining room table. And the vision originally was that we were going to create essentially, you know, RunKeeper or Strata or Weight Watchers for sustainability, an app that you would use to motivate, inspire yourself to be more sustainable, to reduce energy and waste and eat healthier from organic and pesticide standpoint and things like that. And for about 18 months, that's what we did. We launched on Mother's Day 2010 because we thought moms would be the ones that would be most interested in being sustainable. We had some amazing partnerships with people like NBC Universal and Real Simple and others.

[00:17:29] And, you know, really, we're excited to see some explosive growth in the early days. And then we got into this really cool incubator space. But we were bootstrapping this entire time.

[00:17:41] And then right after we signed the partnership with NBC Universal, I did raise a seed round of capital from Converge Venture Partners here in Boston, which is a syndicate.

[00:17:52] It's a fund with a syndicate of most of the high tech successful CEOs and founders. So it's really this idea of founders funding founders. And it was was that 11 2012 when the seed round was the fall of 2010.

[00:18:09] OK, so you launched 10 and then seed round after round after we launched.

[00:18:14] Yeah, yeah, exactly. So right after the partnership with NBC launched in November, it was around that time at the end of 2010. But the challenge was that by 2011, I kind of knew this model wasn't going to work. I had spent a long time in digital consumer products. I knew what you needed to have from a viral coefficient. See, you know, how many users invite other users. And we had really high people loving the app, but really low recommending it to others. So we did a bunch of consumer insights. And basically what we learned is that people were hesitant to recommend the program, even though they liked it for themselves, to others, because they thought people would think they were judging their lifestyle or that they were a hippie liberal or would be like telling somebody they need to go to Weight Watchers. You could maybe say that to your sister or your mom or your best friend in a loving way, but you really can't broadcast it widely. But when you lose weight, people see it and then say, what did you do, you know? And then you have permission to tell them, well, when you are now buying organic chicken, nobody knows. So, you know, when you've just turned down the thermostat on your water heater, nobody, you know, this isn't something you see when you're being more sustainable. We didn't have that same. We had the stigma, but not the benefit of the visible changes. So I almost shot it down literally this month where I was just grubby. But we got on. We were able to on Earth Day 2011, got on to NBC and thought, OK, this is going to be it. You know, we're going to this is gonna give us thousands and thousands of users. And it didn't. It got a, you know, a few thousand, but not what we would have hoped.

[00:20:03] But the phone started ringing. And it was companies asking if we had an enterprise version of our sustainability program that they could use with their employees. And so after the first call, you kind of ignore the second one. You're like, huh? By the third call, I'm a big believer in three.

[00:20:20] By the third call, I'm like, all right, maybe there's a they are there. And so I started interviewing the chief sustainability officers and companies, thanks to some folks that have been helping us and some investors who knew people. And sure enough, companies forward thinking and kind of early companies like Seventh Generation and Organic Valley and folks were really struggling with employee engagement in sustainability and needed tools and technology to help them do it.

[00:20:47] That could measure the impact and tell them the benefit that their employees doing these things are having. And that's what we did. So we did a classic pivot, which I think happens a lot. 18 months in to two founders and decided to focus on running enterprise sustainability programs.

[00:21:06] And that's what we did exclusively from 2012 to 2016, is just run know large global companies from Disney to Caesars to eBay and others, their sustainability engagement programs.

[00:21:20] What techniques do you use? Because I understand the ethos and the philosophy of what you're talking about. But as far as the action items and you know, I'm also putting it into latter day times. This is back in 2011.

[00:21:31] I'm putting in 20, 20 times when you would start a Twitter campaign or launch a YouTube campaign or something of that nature would do that then.

[00:21:39] Yeah.

[00:21:40] So the whole behavior change component of we Spier is really based on some of the science and research that's come come out of B.J, Fogg's lab at Stanford on persuasive technology. And these techniques are most notably used in a lot of the social media apps.

[00:21:58] And the idea is that we combine a combination of game mechanics so and social mechanics and targeted personalized content to essentially close the gap between intent and action. And so it not only helps you understand and a specific pathway what the different micro choices are. So say you're wanting to, you know, eat less meat or eat more plants. What are the different decision points that you need to be thinking about? What are the different actions that you can take? That's the first piece. But then we have a point system, you understand which of these is most impactful? Do I want to do something that has a lot of impact or, you know, something that has smaller impact? And then as you do on your end points and as you do it more, you are an achievements that give you a sense of accomplishment to get a pat on the back. And then the social mechanic, you can see who else has done it. And when you see that a lot of other people have done something, it makes it so it's not so impossible. And then when you do it and somebody likes it and gives you a positive comment, you know, keep this up where you can share your story or things we see is that motivates people to keep doing more. So there's a lot of behavioral science behind how each of these campaigns, competitions or even events and idea boards is designed. But it can be that template, that behavior design template can be used for any sort of behavior change that you're wanting to make. And we sort of joke that at its core, we Spier is about, you know, helping people be better and helping humans make more positive choices. And we've chosen to focus now in four areas sustainability, social impact, well-being and inclusive culture. But it could be applied to almost anything.

[00:23:42] Yeah. Absolutely. I'm wondering this this. Do you have an algorithm that you employ or did you just look at the Stanford research so it it and this idea of looking at chain of command. You know, these micro choices that kind of end up in fruition to this end goal, this backtracking, if you will.

[00:23:59] I think it's been employed across industry for years to great. And it's one frequently overlooked. I think with social media can be a tool or can be a distraction. You know, in a lot of people have this miscommunication where they just immediately go to it before doing this kind of reverse action that it looks like you guys are doing. Do you have an algorithm that you currently plug in for companies once you've actually kind of crystallized the goal of the area that they need to reach out in or what they want to do personally, the kind of develop this game plan? This roadmap, if you will, of what needs to happen or is it's just research that you look at in order to form your own techniques.

[00:24:38] Yeah. So there's. There's algorithms kind of all over the platform that make the right things happen at the right time to get people to take action. And so baked in to the you know, the whole user experience is a lot of personalization that's driven by algorithms. A lot of understanding what content needs to be shown, at what time, what triggers need to be sent, at what time to make things happen. So there's a lot around that.

[00:25:08] But in terms of the actual wheel, we don't want is we don't want our customers who are largely, you know, program managers inside big global companies to have to suddenly become behavior designers. That's a complicated field. And so what we did is we baked all the behavior design elements automatically into the templates.

[00:25:31] They know what they want their people to do. They know generally that, you know, they're trying to drive energy efficiency.

[00:25:38] And the seven things in this role in this plant or in this property for these housekeepers is that this set of activities, what they didn't know is how to order them in a way that that got people moving and getting them the right feedback so that they could do more than they ever expected from the beginning. And then they get the sense of satisfaction and achievement that comes from active participation in the program. So what we say is that we use social mechanics, but it's not social media, per say. It's much more like what you would use in a game, you know.

[00:26:16] So I don't know if any of your listeners are big overwatched players or Destiny or Worlds of Warcraft or things like that.

[00:26:24] But all those mechanics that you see or even Mario, part of, you know, having levels and having quests and having challenges and having points and having ceremonies, all of that is are game mechanics and social mechanics of what you're doing with people. And we use those same kinds of things. We're just wrapping around real life behaviors as opposed to behaviors in a game.

[00:26:48] Yeah, absolutely. And it's exciting. I mean, looking at it from that standpoint, you know, there's a really measurable statistics to that.

[00:26:54] You can absolutely you can alter and tweak. And really, I feel like when you can take a process and make it more uniquely suited to an individual company, the more successful the process that's out of the can, out of the box moment is destined to be flat. As far as figures or yield or social impact return is which all of this?

[00:27:16] Well, one of the biggest AHA's I have and I know it tops a little bit into your background, and I'll never forget the day I was I was driving down from Santa Barbara to go to the airport in L.A. and I was coming through the Hollywood Hills.

[00:27:28] And one of the things that we were thinking about at that time were our programs, you know, the actual campaigns that people were running on the platform, because when we first started, they were just actions. And then it was like, well, these actions need themes and campaigns. So then it was the pathways with the actions. And one of the things I thought about was the studio approach, which is that, you know, no, no, no one can start a studio just for one movie.

[00:27:59] You know, a studio to survive needed to be a specialist in making lots of different movies and things like that. You didn't necessarily know what the public was going to want or what the interests were gonna be and things like that.

[00:28:10] But you had to kind of design it to to create these different things.

[00:28:14] And then these campaigns could have authors just like there's different directors and different producers and things like that. And what that gave us was really this idea that the content library of these behavioral programs should be a library that is open to all of our customers.

[00:28:31] And when they use the tools to design their own custom campaign, they should be given a choice. They can keep it private to themselves or they can share it back into the library and get credit for this great campaign that they just created that others can run. And so one of the things that's been really just fascinating to see is how customers, when they create something really successful, are very willing to share it to other customers and let them use it. Who then tweak and edit it and who put it back in. And so not only when you license the platform, you're getting access to these great tools to create these great content, but you're gaining access to the expertize of those who have gone before you and been successful. And you can modify and edit, you know, because some people use the word associates and others team members and things like that. You can always make those tweaks or modifications, but you're not starting from scratch every time.

[00:29:21] Absolutely.

[00:29:22] I'm wondering, given that and it sounds like it's this evergrowing platform and with the advent of it, it's got to affect the verbiage for all of your clients on the, you know, covered 19 pandemic end inclusive city of acknowledging reality has reached every industry I've spoken to, regardless of. One thinks of the applicability or not ignoring it is alienating someone's reality. I think it does. Absolutely. And I'm wondering, moving forward, what are some of the goals that you are employing with Respire or recommending that your clients kind of look at in shaping their particular reach or expanse or their own personal kind of social choices?

[00:30:01] Sure. So I'm going to paint a picture of what kind of our world was like immediately prior to Coalbed and then how Cobbett has influenced that. So we've been doing this for 10 years. But candidly, it was a niche business that was very small. There were certainly companies that were embracing sustainability and all of these things, but they tended to be large companies. The teams were understaffed, underfunded.

[00:30:29] But with the advent of the UNSCR GS, which really started to gain more momentum in twenty seventeen, we started to see companies coming together around this idea of responsibility and purpose, and they were bringing together these teams that had been really siloed. So we'd been working with sustainability for years. But now the sustainability officer was having responsibility for their social impact efforts there. Inclusive inclusively efforts and often even well-being and things like that.

[00:30:59] And so we're seeing this consolidation in the enterprise. And then in the last 12 months, whether it's been the letter that BlackRock has sent to all their portfolio companies about the importance of purpose, or Jamie Diamond and the Business Roundtable saying that business needs to have a purpose in addition to profit. The rise of ESG investing. There's just been this tailwind into people understanding the importance of purpose and therefore activating purpose in their enterprise. Like I had not seen in 10 years. So we came into COGAT thinking 20, 20. I was just going to be the most amazing year ever then covered, hit. But what was really fascinating to me is, is, you know, we obviously went rmo every single one of our clients that went remote.

[00:31:49] Some of our clients, everybody got furloughed because they were hospitality organizations or auto manufacturing.

[00:31:56] But digital engagement now became the only way of reaching your employees. And they had to engage and get them doing things related to health and safety, managing stress and stress and anxiety, remote work, best practices. And so we, thanks to our clients, were sitting there with the right tools at the right place at the right time to design these campaigns and programs to get their employees doing the things they absolutely needed them to do during combat. And so we've been almost countercyclical in the sense that, you know, yes, we got hurt by clients shutting down and not having any employees to charge for. But we also had these clients where, like, we need you up and running in two weeks and we need to launch this fund to do employee assistance in two weeks. So we need to launch this giving campaign or we need to launch this thing. And just as life was calming down, all of a sudden, the George Lloyd.

[00:32:50] Protests began and companies started responding and acknowledging that they have not been doing enough to build inclusive cultures and to create an anti-racist workplace. And we are sitting with a whole module that's around in reducing implicit bias, increasing allies, ship and all these programs we work to create immediately for several clients, you know, an anti-racist workplace program and have been now beginning to work with them, wanting to fundraise for donations to racial equity organizations. And so there's been, you know, in another module now a lot of momentum and change. And so, you know what? What it's done, in my opinion, is pulled forward the future by five years.

[00:33:41] If you had asked me where organizations were going to be feeling about remote work, digital engagement, equity and inclusion, mental health, you know, and then sustainability just continues to be more urgent and pressing, given we have very little time left to cut 50 percent of carbon emissions. So twenty, twenty five has started to happen in twenty twenty. At least, you know, for for these kinds of programs.

[00:34:10] What are the future goals for what you're doing with Respire like? And now that you feel like there's been this hyper consideration, what are the future goals?

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:17] So I have beliefs from day one that at some point in time every company of any significant size was going to need a technology platform like we Spier, having come out of marketing and seeing this transition in the 2000 to 2010 around marketing automation platforms.

[00:34:37] Companies have not had something to do, this level of sophisticated engagement and behavior change with metrics that prove business value for their employee efforts and were so I have just felt like this category was going to emerge. She'd been speaking about it for eight years, mostly to small groups of people. And so, you know, to me, it's really about how do I take us from being a relatively small organization with the right product, the right customer base into something that can service the global demand that I think it's going to be there. And so I'm looking very closely at, you know, who do you partner with, who you raise capital from? When do you do it? Because I also believe fully that we are not out of this anytime soon. And the economic dislocation that is going to occur over the next few years is going to be profound. And so, you know, I lost a business after 9/11. I manage the media business in the middle of the Great Recession. You know, this this this next few years is gonna be tough for everyone. And we need so we need to be prepared to work with the right people who understand that and yet recognize that by 20, 30, you know, this will just be a default piece of technology in every major workplace. Exciting loft. It it's exciting. It is exciting. It's just how do you make it happen? But the challenge is not to prepare.

[00:36:03] Right. Well, Susan, we're running out of time.

[00:36:06] And I wanted to kind of wrap up today with asking you and Craig that I have for most people that I speak with on this particular series, and that is if someone approached you from a safe social distance tomorrow or the day after and it was a young woman or female identified non binary individual, and they came up to you and said, I'm so glad I found you. I wanted to ask you, we have a friend in common. And I've spent the early part of my career, the bulk of it actually, you know, in this heavily steeped media and news company, it is once you're one of its most important transitions throughout all of history. And now I'm looking to go out on my own. And I've got this great co-founder. I'm thinking about a startup with one of the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now.

[00:36:46] So the first would be to keep your day job as long as possible. Wow. Validating your hypothesis with a test group of users.

[00:36:59] One of the most important things I did with we Spier was 100 users. We called them the motherboard. And we we started with product paper prototypes of what we're gonna do and put in front of and got feedback. And then we built a really, really late prototype and put it in front of them, get feedback.

[00:37:19] And, you know, and I was still consulting on the side and bringing in because I didn't know and I don't think anyone knows until you start to put a new product or solution into somebody's hands, whether you have a there, there. And I think if you talk to most entrepreneurs, they pivot. You know, you don't.

[00:37:37] Your first idea usually I guess that's my second piece of advice, keep working because your first idea may not be the one that sticks.

[00:37:44] But if you have the right people around you and you're passionate about the problem, you're solving, not necessarily the product you've come up with to solve that problem. But if you're passionate, the problem, just keep going. You will find a way to solve that problem that will work. And then my third is, is that this is a marathon, not a sprint. I speak somewhat frequently about. The prevailing messages that come from tech media in particular. But I think all startup media, which is that we glamorize the successes, that we generally tell the stories of those where it was an, you know, a relatively instant hit and three to four years. You're a unicorn. And that is not most entrepreneurial journeys. The vast majority of underground journeys are slow, long, painful processes of twists and turns and navigations.

[00:38:44] And you only hear about the company once they hit that inflection point. And you don't hear about the eight years it took to get there. And so, you know, sign up for and realize that this is a marathon. And so take care of yourself. Take care of your family and realize that what what you want to enjoy is the journey of being an entrepreneur, not just the destination of having a successful business.

[00:39:09] Absolutely. All right. I've got keep your day job while testing your idea, number one. Number two, surround yourself with people and be prepared to pivot.

[00:39:17] Keep the problem alive, but don't be overly married to the product. And number three, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a game of endurance. And pay attention to your quality of life. Will you go along that marathon?

[00:39:28] Perfect.

[00:39:30] I love that so much. Well, Susan, thank you so much for coming on and giving us all of your information. I know you're busy. Everyone's at once these days kind of home, but twice as busy. And I really appreciate your time.

[00:39:41] It is so true. Exactly. Well, thank you for having me. It's been wonderful to be here.

[00:39:45] Absolutely. And for all of you listening, thank you so much for giving us your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slaínte.

View Details

Today I am talking with Laura Khalil. Laura is a speaker, teacher and host of the Top 100 Apple Podcast, Brave by Design, focused on helping women achieve incredible success in their careers and lives. She is a master storyteller, consulting with clients such as Twitter, GE, and Intel on how to use storytelling to improve the lives of their customers. Laura’s training unlocks the code to becoming magnetic to help ambitious women learn how to rise, lead with empathy, and live abundantly.

Key points addressed were

Laura’s business and podcast both called “Brave by Design” and how she has used the core tenants of her public speaking and coaching advice platforms to influence her podcast narrative
We also discussed Laura’s expertise in Podcast hosting and how she leveraged her skills based out of her former career in content marketing to become one of the top 100 Apple Podcasts on the market.

View Details

Today I am chatting with Lauren Smith. Lauren is a passionate event planner, connection creating expert, and lover of all thing’s events + travel. Lauren helps busy entrepreneurs create in person connection with their online community so they can strengthen their relationships, provide incredible value and turn their community into raving fans. With over 10 years of event planning experience working with Canada’s largest financial institutions, Lauren brings countless unique and innovative ideas, and an impressive tool-box of skills to the table for her clients, spanning from an unmatched ability to pivot on the spot, to killer negotiation skills and the creative ability to think outside the box.

Key points addressed were

The particulars of the event planning industry and how her company uniquely addresses the requirements in the industries she conducts events with
We also examined some stereotypes of the event planning’s industries’s past and how Lauren endeavors to redefine some of these attributes in the future

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with event planner and founder of Modern Collective, Lauren Smith. Key points addressed were the particulars of event planning industry and how her company uniquely addresses the requirements in the industries she conducts events with. We also examine some stereotypes of the event plannings, industries past and how Lauren endeavors to redefine some of these attributes in the future. Stay tuned for my informative chat with Lauren Smith.

[00:00:32] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status. For industry, we aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM. You can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. My name is Patricia and I am your host today. I am excited to be sitting down with Lauren Smith. Lauren is an event planner and founder of Modern Collective. You can find out more about it on her Web site. W w w dot. Modern collective dot. S.A. Welcome, Lauren.

[00:01:50] Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here.

[00:01:53] Absolutely. I'm excited to unpack what you're doing, too.

[00:01:55] We've had a lot of audience and listeners reach out over the past year, actually, and talk about wanting me to talk with speak with the founder regarding what you do and your industry with events and things like that. And so I'm really excited to help unpack it all for everyone listening as well as for my own education. Before I get to unpacking everything with Lauren, for those of you who have not listened to before, I will give you a quick roadmap of today's podcast and then I will read a bio on Lauren. Before I start peppering her with questions. Today's podcast will follow the same trajectory as all of those in the series. Our inquiry will first look at her academic background and professional life. And then we will start unpacking everything that is based on a modern collective. We'll get into the logistics for those young entrepreneurs out there who, what, when, where, why, how. As far as when it was founded, funding all of those co-founders questions. And then we'll turn into the ethos and the populations and some of the industries that Lauren's company serves. And we'll then look towards future goals and endeavors that she hasn't. We'll wrap everything up with advice that Lauren has for those of you who are looking to get involved or perhaps emulate some of her success. A quick bio on Lauren. As promised, Lauren Smith is a passionate event planner, connection creating expert and lover of all things, events and travel. Lauren plays busy, helps Ari learn, helps busy entrepreneurs create in-person connection with their online communities so they can strengthen their relationship, providing credible value in turn their community into raving fans. With over 10 years of event planning experience working with Canada's largest financial institutions. Lauren brings countless unique and innovative ideas.

[00:03:37] And an impression, too impressive tool box of skills to the table for her clients, spanning from an unmatched ability to pivot on the spot to killer negotiation skills and the creative ability to think outside the box. So I love the idea of modern collective learn. I know you've been in the game for quite some time. But before we get to that, I'm hoping that we can start off with you describing a little bit about your academic and professional life that brought you to founding it.

[00:04:10] Yeah, totally.

[00:04:11] I love it. OK. So I remember when I was choosing a profession or degree to go into when I was entering college. My dad always said to me, I don't really care what you do, I just want you to do it for yourself.

[00:04:23] So pick a field that you love that inspires you. And just figure out what that path looks like for you. So I've always been quite sociable. I love experiences. I love creating connection with people. So the event industry of just like popped up on my plate and I was like, you know, I think I'm going to explore this, but I need the business background to it as well. So I took a business management program with a specialization in event planning, management and marketing through that. I went to it was a three year program. We learned literally everything behind the scenes of events. We had internships of all of the stuff that you do when you were in college, university. And then I from there went and worked for a financial institution where I started as coordinator. And within two years, I worked myself up to director and then got promoted to V.P. right before I left. And I was running all of the events for this brand who actually had three brands in total nationally across Canada. So that meant incentive programs, golf tournaments, conferences, owner meetings, kind of everything that they had to do with events is what I would run. And it was so fun. It was traveling the world with these beautifully big budgets that I could really do what I wanted with and explore the world with, quite literally. And then when I left there, I went and worked for Scotiabank. I was high level management, same thing running events, marketing and customer experience in one of their large divisions. And I was only there for about six months until I realized that. The corporate world wasn't me. I really wanted to follow that entrepreneurial path. And I knew what I wanted at this point, and that's kind of when I jumped and went on my own.

[00:06:14] Nice. That's cool. So sounds like you had. I like the idea of playing with big budgets in my career path. Past when I the larger the budget.

[00:06:23] I think that the smaller the budget, it creates a creativeness and a, you know, feistiness that one needs. But the larger the budget actually allows you to play around with what exactly that? More power, larger budgets, bigger scales. And it can be unnerving. And so it's a great way to kind of get your feet wet into still keeping some of the core concepts from smaller budgets that you need. You know, getting the best bang for your buck and making sure that you're really pushing all of the budgeting aspects. You can spend a lot of money on events, you know, with food or with venue or just different things like that, and really funding out per industry where you want to add per event where you want to spend money works at a larger scale with bigger budgets. So what pushed you into starting? Let's start with the logistics. When did you launch Modern Collective? Which year? And did you have any co-founders? And did you have any startup capital?

[00:07:16] Yes.

[00:07:16] So I I launched the idea, bought the Web site, did the domain sort all the branding in 2016? So that would have been four years ago now. And I knew that that was my fallback plan. But being young, traveling the world, I had moved my whole life out west to live in Vancouver. I was still living that gypsy life. I wasn't yet ready to leave that secure income until I actually just hit my one year mark of completely being on my own, running my own company. So Modern Collective officially launched in April of twenty nineteen. And no co-founders, no starting capital, just me and a belief in myself. And I just quit one day and made it happen.

[00:07:58] How did you start with your client acquisition? Was it people you'd known before? How did any of that work?

[00:08:06] So quite a few of the clients were people I'd known before who had said to me throughout my entire career. When are you going to go in on your own? I can't wait to work with you like it's a dream come true to be able to work with you now that you have capacity. And then the other half of them came. I also run a women's networking group in Toronto where we focus on supporting female entrepreneurs in business by giving them the tools and resources that they need to be successful. So quite a few of my clients came through there because it was just such a natural fit that the people I was serving were perfect with people in my community.

[00:08:38] Nice. And so did you relocate relocate from Vancouver to Toronto when you went full time for yourself? And if so, what? Was there any business reason for the geographical change?

[00:08:48] So I'm from Toronto. Naturally born and raised, my whole family is here in my early twenties. My dad actually suffered a stroke which took away his ability to speak. So from twenty one into twenty five, I was a full time caregiver. I gave up the early 20s that all my friends tied with the backpacking through Thailand and doing all that stuff to really stay home and support my dad in his stroke recovery. So with that, when I hit twenty five, he was healthy. Life was feeling a little bit more stable. So at that point I said to my parents, like, I need to go and do something for me and I need to to be a kid. And the head office of the company I was working for at the time was in Vancouver. So they packed up my car and drove out west and worked up there and lived out there for a couple of years. And then things started to go south with the company and it was ready for me. Ready? I was ready. Sorry to come home. So it kind of just like transitioned. I transitioned home in twenty seventeen while I was still working for Scotiabank. So the entrepreneurial journey didn't come until after I had already moved on.

[00:09:54] I picture it being something that, you know, it would be helpful to have like a lot of contacts and networking and colleagues, but it sounds like it worked well for you to come back in and within a couple of years launch. I want to climb into it. First of all, when I hear events that we and I talked a little bit off the air before we started about this, but when I hear events and event planning, it's just such a massive industry and end back in the day. You know, you'd say events and people immediately thought wedding planning, massive events, personal events and then corporate corporate events, corporate retreats, all sorts of things like that.

[00:10:31] And it sounds like you've had you've spanned those genre are the industry and the different aspects of it while you were working for corporate. What does the term events mean for your your company modern collective as it is right now? And do you have areas that you specialize in, specific events that you specialize in, or a profile of client that you help with their events?

[00:10:53] Yeah, I do. So I will not touch a wedding with a 10 foot pole. I have trusted friends and colleagues that I will hand off any wedding, whether that's a travel destination, wedding, intimate wedding or like a big one. I just it's not it's not what makes me happy. And that's not going to serve my client in the long run. I have friends, like I said, that are incredible wedding planners that I would very gladly hand that off to. I also don't typically do PR events, so I won't do a red carpet. I won't do social events from that perspective. My happy place and my my skills are really best to use when it comes to corporate retreats, incentives, conferences, meetings, and then supporting female entrepreneurs in doing similar events to corporate. But obviously on the entrepreneur budget. So I just did a retreat in Bolly for a female owner and we really worked together on building the entire program, budgets, all that stuff to serve her her clients. So it's a little bit of both. A lot of it is female entrepreneur focused. I love supporting women doing incredible things. But then I also still have that side of me that loves the large corporate unique events, the trouble, the incentive program. So it's twofold. I do female entrepreneur events that are mostly retreats and then large corporate incentives and conferences.

[00:12:11] Nice. So what do you what falls under the purview of an event planner? And how does that. Is it a widely accepted understanding of the curriculum or does it change per event planner? So for everyone listening. What? Like you just mentioned, budgets and things like that. I know that some event planners don't work with that aspect or they only work with the aspect of the budget in so much as certain things where they have people under their umbrella that work within it. So what all falls in under the purview or the umbrella of event planning for you?

[00:12:43] Yeah. So again, it's an it depend on the program. Let's see. As a female entrepreneur, for example, who's building a retreat, I will take her literally from IDEO all the way through to execution. So we will build the budget. We will build the ticket pricing. We will talk about transfers, gifting their sponsorship, build out. Really, everything that encompasses the event is something I want to support them with because I love the control of it. I don't want me to be working on one aspect of the event and someone else be working on another. I just think for events like that small, it's not cohesive and is going to get dropped or I'm better managing the entire aspect of it and then having someone on my team help me with the logistics of it. And then from like call our corporate conference, you're gonna have your in-house planner who has done the budget, who has really worked through what those numbers look like. And then I'm just executing on the numbers that they've given me. So for me and for my company, we do it all. That being said, I have some other people in the industry that I know are event managers. So you're not doing the full buildout. You're just fully executing. You're not hands in, you're kind of just like data. So for me, like I said, it's it's all. Management of the program. But for others, it might just be Dave.

[00:13:59] Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's the discrepancy that I'm thinking about as well. There are a lot of people that don't have their hand in that. And then you're gonna need someone else to communicate. An event manager would need to communicate with an event coordinator or budget or something like that. So I'm curious, with moving into it, you have like this you have a clientele that you are working with, you know, this some kind of describing who you prefer to work with, female entrepreneurs and things like that.

[00:14:27] It kind of begins to take on an ethos of a branding. And you think a lot about how your branding events and things of that nature. And I'm interested to see how people like that kind of take it and flip the mirror on themselves. How have you chosen to brand yourself as a company, especially as you've kind of honed into your niche markets and things like that with that kind of plays into the ethos of the philosophy of of who you are and your brand for your clients.

[00:14:52] Absolutely. So the big thing for me is I want my brand to feel comfortable. I want people, people to look at me from your Instagram. I want to get to know me personally. I have this very genuine and authentic feeling, and I wanted my brand to represent that. It was super important to me that when people saw my brand, what does it matter what background you come from, your skin color, your religion, none of that stuff. I wanted them to immediately feel comfortable and like they wanted to have me in their corner. So in coming up with my branding, it was a warm feeling. It was an inspirational feeling. So there's you'll see lots of troubled photos and lots of funny quotes, because that's also who I am. I'm a little bit goofy and I really want people to feel comfortable with me. And I kind of pulled off of a lot of the feelings when I was corporate. A lot of the things I'm so proud of and that draw people to work with me. Used to be things I would get in trouble for. And I found that once I started to, like, follow that authentic and not real vibe in that real part of who I am. My people started to find me. So my clients are people that I end up becoming really good friends with because it is such an intimate experience and they become some of my closest friends. And that's what I wanted in in building my business was I didn't want it to be a cold and not personal experience. It's quite the opposite. It's warm and it's funny. And we're talking all the time and we're literally traveling the world together and building these incredible experiences that people will remember for the rest of their lives.

[00:16:17] Yeah, absolutely. And to that end, kind of pulling on that thread further. You talked about, you know, becoming close with your clients, new client acquisition, new business development. Do you find that a lot of it comes to you or are you developing it through social media like Instagram? How are you kind of developing new business?

[00:16:33] A lot of it is is me. I don't have a sales team that really sells events for me yet. That is definitely on the plan for the future. Honestly, a lot of it right now is people that have said to me, working with you is on my vision board. And I followed you on social media. I followed your journey. And I really genuinely just would love to create something incredible with you, which has really benefited me. I've literally not really had to put money in ads or any of that type of stuff. It's all been word of mouth. Someone so knows a person. They introduced me. And it has kept me completely at capacity since I launched, which is so cool.

[00:17:11] Nice. I'm wondering, like you talked about a story where a vision board. I think about storyboards with design and things like that. When you talk about an event, truly beautiful events that I have attended over the past few decades have been one that was the thoughtfulness is conveyed. And I think that comes through with them, you know, kind of developing a storyline and a theme and a thread. And it sounds like you you you do that like you consider it and you do things. What is that process like? Were you taught it in your career, in your corporate life? Did you teach it to yourself? Did you develop like this kind of mold or boilerplate that you bring everything to that you can kind of unpack it and follow like a proper outline? How does that all work?

[00:17:57] So a lot of it is very much a brainchild of mine. So when I first have a client, come on, we'll hop on a call and I'll say, what's your vibe? We use Pinterest quite a bit. I have Instagram folders saved on my phone. So if I'm scrolling and I see something that I think might be the vibe of one of my clients, I'll just shoot over to them and say, like thinking about this for your retreat. And they're like, yes, you've nailed it. So through conversations like that, I start to understand what they want. We also get very specific on our first couple of calls. What are huge no knows what our dream brands that you want to collaborate with. Talk to me about sustainability. Talk to me about colors and vibes. And let me see your sales page. Let me see your branding. And let me help you build out this experience for you, because it is such a personal and one off experience. I don't really put it through. I mean, I do have a process that my team goes through, but it's more so than me letting my creative brain explore and build these really cool things out for people. The other thing I like to do is how would I feel attending an event? What would make me feel special? What would make me say, oh, my God, this was a one off experience, which in turn reminds me of who was with me during that experience. So my end goal for clients is for when they're their clients. Think of Bolly, they think of the client because it was this incredible experience that they gave them. Then they'll refer to them. So when I'm thinking of things, it's not just from a beautiful experience. It's how is that experience going to directly affect my client and make their business stronger?

[00:19:33] Yeah, absolutely. So you going to expand with your like your head count? How many can you take on at this point if there starts to become more of a damn demand?

[00:19:45] Will you grow your business? And if so, do you foresee any issues in managing teams underneath you?

[00:19:52] Great question. So I actually just did a huge restructure of a client clients, we're taking on what it looked like after one on one planning and I cut it in one quarter. Twenty five percent of the Americans I was bidding for is who I am taking right now, because I will to give those clients that tailored experience. That being said, if someone wants company so involved, but not from a Wannna active, I do have a coordinator that she's incredible who can work with me for about six months now. She understands my process and she often will come to me with ideas that I've already had and we work really well together. So from one of my perspective, I've actually gone back. But going forward, we will be expanding our team to facilitate the increase in onboarding of clients.

[00:20:42] Yeah, absolutely. I was wondering when there's a growth because you have such a, you know, founder's fingerprint on what you've done so far and people who have thought about it. Sometimes it's a seamless transition and sometimes it's a little bit of a growing pain, you know, because so much of what you're providing right now is you and and things like that, when you even when you have the initial intake or you develop the ad structure and have someone else implement it. It can be tricky. And that's one of the handoffs that a lot of young founders find to be, I think, seamless because they thought so much about it and they're concerned with it or, you know, a little bit of a growing pain and a hiccup. I'm curious, what are the most difficult aspects? So this is reaching into a lot of we had a lot of people write in regarding my speaking with event planners and and people of that industry. And we kind of collated all of their questions. And so I'm just going to kind of rapid fire them at you. And so one of them is what are the most difficult aspects of event planning that the person, just the lay person or someone outside of the industry doesn't know about from the outside?

[00:21:51] So when the issues when something goes wrong, so I always give the example that an event planner is very much like a duck on the surface. We're super calm and collected in life. Just looks beautiful. But underneath we're pedaling so quickly to try and make something happen or not cover up a mistake. But when I'm onsite with a client and something goes wrong, I do not want my client to worry or stress or think that I don't have the situation under control. You're coming up very quickly with a solution to this problem. And then once the problem has been solved, then you presented to the client, hey, this just happened. I want you to be in the loop. It's been completely covered. Nothing to stress about. But this did happen, and I think you should know about it. That is one of the hardest parts of the job because you still have to have that smile on your face and be your fun, goofy self on program. Meanwhile, someone could be in the hospital and you're trying to manage what that looks like. So people think event planning and then especially travel event planning is that it's all beautiful in this. I'm on a beach drinking margarita all the time when really that problem only happens one percent of the time. And that misconception, I think, is the hardest thing to manage.

[00:22:57] Yeah, absolutely. And enjoying that margarita when you're still working is a little bit different. Even being on addict locations when you're there working, I think that's no better way to kind of ruin, you know, the idea of a vacation, depending on what you think vacation is, I suppose, to top things to keep in mind when planning an event of any size. So we do a lot of people reach out and say they wanted to know kind of how to vet event planners. You know, there's what questions to ask.

[00:23:27] And one of them was saying, like, what are some some areas to really keep in mind for what the event planner is paying attention to versus not. That helps them decide who they'd like to go with.

[00:23:39] I think the biggest thing is going to be asking that flat question of, hey, when have things gone wrong and events and how did you handle them asking for referrals to their past clients if they're comfortable. It's gonna be a huge thing. And then the other thing that I think is so important is have them actually do a little assignment for you. So this is a little bit unconventional, but it's how I practice all of my either hiring a team member or working with a new company is OK. Okay, here's the situation. Let's say here's a budget that I want to work with or here's a destination I want to go on. Can you just send me a mock idea of what this might look like? And then through that process, you'll see how they think about things. You'll see how their problem solving your transportation, or you'll really start to see what they think about and the questions that they come back to you with. So if they say, yes, no problem, here it is. And they have it to the next day, I might raise some concerns that there was no questions asked if there was no deep diving and getting to know the client at the end of the day before they they jumped in and started making all these these plans and expectations for the client without actually getting to know to know them.

[00:24:48] Interesting. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm asking questions back. Sounds like it would be a major one, especially in getting able to pitch the correct aspects. So I'm wondering what's unique about your team and your event planning, like aside from this thoughtfulness that we talk about and things of that nature?

[00:25:08] When you think about your business and you compare it to other event planners that, you know, what kind of aspects do you think about that really set you apart that are unique with you?

[00:25:18] I think the biggest thing is I'm not in it for the sale. I don't need to pad my bank account any bigger. I just want my client and them to really genuinely have an incredible experience. So that for me is something I've learned throughout my career working for other third parties, working corporate, as everyone just seems to go through the process so quickly. And it's OK, we're done. This event, what's the next one look like? But for me, it's more how is that experience? How can we make it better next time? How can we build on that and start to increase the client experience or customer experience at that point? Another thing is, I'm super, super goofy. I'm professional. And I'm all that stuff, but I'm always laughing. I think being polite and being nice to your service staff, to your suppliers, to everyone involved in the event is what sets any event planner apart. And it's actually the thing I pride myself on the most is any venue, vendor or supplier service. I've worked with has always thanked me for being so nice, which confuses me because I feel like everyone should just be that gracious and nice and understanding that issues are going to happen. And it's not how or is not when the issue comes up, it's how you deal with it that is going to set you apart. So I think that's something I'm super proud of, is that I don't yell at people. I'm not mean. I'm just really nice and fun to be around. And I like to set the stage for the experience. So I'm fine. And I'm always dancing and laughing and like really making people feel welcome and like that. This is about to be a once in a lifetime experience.

[00:26:44] Absolutely. Listen, let's get into Kovar talk. You know, you hear events, you think, wow, that's going to be an industry that was heavily impacted. Have you been asked or approach to kind of curate an online event?

[00:27:01] And is it something that you would consider kind of pivoting and looking towards? And how has that covered 19 pandemic affected you? Have you had. Have you encouraged people to delay until there is a vaccine? How has how have you kind of navigated through all of those waters?

[00:27:19] Yes. So when Cauvin first hit, I had a couple of clients with massive events for this year. We had one scheduled for June one for August one for October. And I remember sitting down with my client and this would've been like early March when we were having the conversation and they didn't know what was going on. I didn't know what was going on. But as a professional in this situation, I had to come up with a plan and make them feel comfortable that, you know what? Nobody knows what's happening right now, but we're going to navigate it the best that we could. So. Right. Right off the bat. Hundred percent. We had events to reschedule. Cancel. Have those conversations with venues. I think that's also what's going to set an event planner apart from someone who likes to say their event planner. And I'm not saying that you just disrespect, but I know some people that say, oh, I'm an event planner, but you've been doing it for a year because he planned your wedding. And that's completely different than someone who's been doing it for 10 plus years, went to school for it knows the lingo is is dealing with these suppliers. There's such a difference. And I can't I can't stress that enough. And it all came out during coalbed. So negotiating these contracts for my clients. There was one client. I got them out of a fifty thousand dollar contract that they would have been out of pocket for, but they couldn't sell tickets. So it literally would have been a personal expense. And through experience and relationships and all that stuff, we were able to push it to next year. Which is what they wanted to do. So Kofod hit and it was super scary for the industry. And obviously we're still recovering and we will be for years. But I think it kind of weeded out a little bit of the people that we're putting on that face that they knew what they were doing when they kind of were defined by the seat of their pants in terms of online events. Yes. One hundred percent. We're launching an online event in the fall for that collective that I also run for the women's events and community. That's a whole other ballgame, but it's also a good thing because you can reach more people, you can reach bigger sponsors, you can really increase your revenue that way. Of course, you're gonna be missing that in person connection. But there's definitely ways to do that online that you couldn't even do before in person. So it's an interesting time for sure to be in the event space. But I'm quite excited about what the future looks like. It's going to be a transition. It's not going to happen tomorrow, but it is going to get better. And I think we'll come out of this stronger.

[00:29:38] Yeah, absolutely. And I agree. I agree. If what you said across all industries, I think that one of the things that has happened is that people who you can stay in the industry and are the ones that ought to you know, it's shaking up out of people with mediocre talent and leaving the ones here around.

[00:29:54] I think that our expertize at what they do. I'm curious looking towards the future, because things have kind of changed a lot. Everyone's had a new conversation, given the pandemic about where the future goals are headed. And it sounds like we've already talked about a little bit about this, about you cutting back down 25 percent things of that nature. But do you have any other future goals for the next one to three years for where you'd like to see your company and skills headed?

[00:30:19] I do, I do, and this is such an exciting question for me, because I have been having this on my vision board for for probably over five years. I've always wanted to launch and add another arm of my business that is a boutique, high end travel agency. I currently have to partner with another travel agency because the law is that I can't if I'm not licensed, I can't book flights and I can't collect money for travel unless I'm I'm licensed as a travel agent. But the way I run my business and with the retreat's and all of that really intimate type of events, it's so hard for us to make that seamless transition when partnering with an outside travel agency. So I have always wanted to become my own troubled agency story and just make that experience a very incredible high touch in-house experience. So I'm running my test this week and that is going to be launched fully in the fall. And then with that, obviously, comes the build out of hiring on other travel agents and really making that kind of its own standalone travel agency as well. So that's a big one. That's coming up.

[00:31:26] Does that change? And are you based out of Canada? Does that change for working with clients who are based other parts of the world? I'm in the States. Would that change for someone in the United States as to what you can provide them with? Or how does that work?

[00:31:43] It will only get better from here on out. So the event space is one of those industries where it depends who you ask and how how you run your business. There's loopholes for sure. And a lot of things I'm there are very transparent person. I would rather spend an extra year and an extra ten, ten thousand dollars in school to be able to do it right and provide that experience for my clients. So it's more so based on where I'm based and the services that I can provide. So by doing all this testing, I will then be able to provide services worldwide, legitimately.

[00:32:15] That's exciting. So we are ready.

[00:32:18] So the end of the podcast and I get to ask my favorite question that I always ask, and that is if you were at a safe social distance at a park or a garden tomorrow and someone walked up to you and said, Lauren, I'm so glad I caught you.

[00:32:32] I am. I've been hanging out. I went to school for I love events, planning. I was in corporate for several years. I had these huge budgets. I really garnered and gleans a lot of information. I think the time has come for me to branch out on my own. What are the top three pieces of advice that you would give? Let's say this person is a female female identified or known by an individual, one of the top three pieces of advice you would give them, knowing what you know now.

[00:33:02] That's a good question. I would say jump before you're ready, because if you wait until you're ready, you'll never do it because they'll always be an excuse. Well, I can't do it now. I have to save money. Like there's so much that we tell ourselves. That keep us from doing what we want. So I'd say just do it scared. The second thing is invest in a business coach. I could not do what I have done and I would not be where I am without my coach literally being my my greatest support and guiding me through the process. Because here's the thing. I can I can run an amazing event and I can put together an incredible budget and get all this incredible sponsorship. But if you talk to me about email funnels and building a business, it's just it's like a foreign language to me. But the opposite goes for my coach. She is incredible at that. So I do what she tells me to do and I don't fight back. I literally will do exactly what she tells me to do. And it works like the first three months in business. I had already hit six figures because of what she had told me to do. So invest in a business coach. As your first thing to do and then the third thing, I think you have to be your own biggest cheerleader. There's been days when I don't want to get out of bed because Cauvin happened and I'm like, what is going to happen for my business? How am I going to show up for my clients right now? I'm scared. I don't understand what's going on. But you just have to do it. And. I don't see this to be insensitive, but being a business owner, you have to be able to get through the tough days. There are days when I don't believe in myself and I don't think that it's possible, but I do it anyways. And I think that some people get scared of that. And they're like, well, I don't believe that I can push myself through it. And that's the biggest thing is learned to be your biggest cheerleader and show up when you don't want to show up.

[00:34:42] Nice. I like that. As far as the investing a business courage, I just saw another little question there I want to grab before I let you go.

[00:34:50] For people, I've I've heard this a lot. And then we've had feedback from audience. And I'm always mean to ask, how did you find yours and how again, how did you get a business coach?

[00:35:01] So I do not recommend Googling business coach, finding one right away and purchasing whatever they have to offer. I think your business coach very much needs to vibe with you and who you are and your goals and your values and and who you are at the core. So my business coach, I actually found her through Instagram. She's Tronto based as well. And I started to digest her content about eight months before I actually hired her. So I downloaded her freebees. I joined her email list. I engaged with her through Instagram, responding to her stories. And I really wanted to feel how she was going to interact with me, because if she was just going to blow me off just like whatever, like this girl's not paying me, so I'm not going to provide her any of my time or attention. She wasn't the fit for me. But throughout the process of us engaging, we actually became quite good friends. She spoke at an event for me, and then she's actually one of the ones that helped me. Be ready to jump and do it on my own. I had the belief and I knew and I was ready, but I knew that having that support in my back corner that I couldn't fail. So it was about eight month process of figuring out what that looks like and don't just narrow in on one. Like if you think that there's three or four that you might enjoy, engage with them. Download older stuff. See if their content actually works for you. Like some coaches might teach in a way that you're not going to understand. So take the time to get to know them. And Instagram is a beautiful thing and ask people for recommendations. If you see someone that has a business, folks, just ask them, hey, what do you think? I'm thinking about it. I have questions. Were you effective here or were they effective there? Be open and ask as many questions as possible, because it is a very important relationship that you're going to get into.

[00:36:39] Yeah, absolutely, I agree. And the right ones everyone swears by, you know, they always make these top three pieces of advice. All right. So I have no one jump in before you're ready. No. To invest in a business coach, as we just talked about.

[00:36:51] Number three, be your own cheer squad and love that. That's so perfect. Lauren, we are out of time, but I want to say thank you so much for giving us all of your information and relaying your story today. I really appreciate it.

[00:37:04] Chris, thank you for having me. This was so much fun.

[00:37:06] Absolutely. For us, too. So for everyone listening, we've been talking to Lauren Smith. You can find out she's an event planner and founder. You can find out more about everything we've been talking about online. It's w w. W w. Modern collective. Dot. C, a..

[00:37:20] And thank you for giving us your time today until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am talking with Renata Joy. Renata is a personal trainer, nutrition expert, and the founder of Pure Joy Wellness—a community-based lifestyle brand that helps women over 50 improve their lives through fitness, nutrition, and self-care. A former Emmy-nominated television producer, Renata started Pure Joy Wellness to teach women the importance of taking care of themselves, and to show them how to regain their health and revitalize their bodies and spirits. She’s on a mission to change the conversation around aging, and to give women who have been left behind a voice. At 63, Renata is living proof that you can be confident and healthy at any age, and she’s created a space where women can talk about whatever issues they’re dealing with—everything from menopause, nutrition, and fitness, to supplements, skincare, and mental health.

Key points addressed were

The philosophy and core values around Renata’s lifestyle brand and consultancy work in her company Pure Joy wellness
We also discussed Renata’s current work and future endeavors with women over 50, a population that is largely underserved and under heard from in contemporary health venues

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with founder, nutrition expert and personal trainer Renata Joy. Key points addressed were the philosophy and core values around Renata's lifestyle branding consultancy work in her company, Pure Joy Wellness. We also discussed were not his current work and future endeavors with women over 50, a population that is largely underserved and under heard from in contemporary health venues. Stay tuned for my enthralling conversation with Renata Joy.

[00:00:33] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back.

[00:01:32] I am your host, Patricia. And today I'm elated to be sitting down with Renata Joy. She's the founder, nutrition expert and personal trainer behind her website and her work. You can find out more about it. W w w dot. Pure joy, wellness dot com. Welcome, Renata.

[00:01:49] Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:51] Absolutely, I'm excited to pepper you through. I was just telling you off the air you are the encapsulation of the proof in the pudding. And our audience will kind of understand what that means as I am. Pack everything with you. But before I do that, for everyone listening, if it is your first time listening, I will read a bio on. We're not set to kind of give you a foundation of where we're coming from. Before I start peppering her with questions. But first, a roadmap for today's podcasts. You can follow the trajectory in which I based my inquiry out of. I will first look at asking her not to describe her academic and professional history, kind of bringing her up into founding and developing pure joy, wellness and all of her work within that, and then will turn straight to unpacking the Web site to the particulars of the business, everything all the logistics for those early followers about the founding aspects, the who, what, when, where, how, why, founding cofounding, all of that. And then we'll turn towards the ethos and the philosophy behind the company culture and some of the theory there that I think that we're not to herself as a walking testimony to. And then we'll look at the goals and plans that we're not set has for the next one to three years. That is a dialog that has changed for all of us drastically with the advent of the COVID 19 pandemic. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice that we're not to has. For those of you who are looking to get involved with what she does, as well as emulate perhaps some of her career successes. So, as promised, a quick bio on Renata. Renata Joy is a personal trainer, nutrition expert and the founder of Pure Joy Wellness, a community based lifestyle brand that helps women over 50 improve their lives through fitness, nutrition and self care. A former Emmy nominated television producer. We're not a started. Pure joy wellness to teach women the importance of taking care of themselves and to show them how to regain their health and revitalize their bodies and spirits. She's on a mission to change the conversation around aging and to give women who have been left behind a voice at sixty three. Renata is living proof that you can be confident and healthy at any age. She and she's created a space where women can talk about whatever issues they're dealing with, everything from menopause, nutrition and fitness to supplements, skin care and mental health. So we're not. I love what you do. We have a lot of platforms that indeed have serious intersections and parallels. But before we get into unpacking your brand, your lifestyle brand and pure joy wellness, I'm hoping you can kind of give us a description of your academic background and professional life that kind of brought you to developing pure joy wellness.

[00:04:23] It's really interesting because my academic background really didn't have anything to do with what I'm doing right now. I went to school for radio, television and motion pictures. So that was sort of like my goal. I was going to be. Never thought I would be on to TV, which I ended up going into. I thought I would be and to radio, which music was always really, really important to me. I play piano and music with everything to me. So I was a disc jockey in the early eighties for Jazz Radio Station because I was very passionate about jazz, but went to school for radio, television, a motion pictures and did really, really well a week before I graduated. I got a job at my first television station in Charlotte, North Carolina, as a production assistant. Now, some would say if you think about this climate that we're in right now and back in the actually nineteen seventy eight is when I got my first job in television. I was hired because of affirmative action. So the television station needed to hire a black person and I knew that. And so going in and I was hired for that reason. But I was also qualified to do the job. So I went from a production assistant to a producer to senior producer to executive producer of a show called Evening Magazine. An Evening magazine at the time was the first show that had a male and female co-host. I know it's hard to imagine that now, but back then only men were posting television shows. And so this is the first time a male and a female co-host did a show. And so through that particular show, I traveled all over the world. I was one of the wall pickers at the Berlin Wall to knock that sucker down. And so I have parts of the wall. I got to spend some time with Anwar Sadat and Egypt because we went to do a story on him because he had an Arabian Egyptian horse farm. And so we went there and, you know, covered that kind of story. So I traveled to every continent except for Antarctica. After or even a magazine, I started working for NBC and I was working for NBC News. I worked there for a while, then came to New York to help start a network called America's Talking and America's Talking was embassy's answer to CNN because at the time, CNN was the only network that had 24 hour was the only 24 hour cable network. So at America's Talking, we were none of us knew when we went there what show we were going to produce. So we go we go there, we come to New York and we're sitting in this room and Roger Ailes was the head of the network at that particular time. And so we're sitting in this room and he hands us an envelope and they start playing the Mission Impossible music. You know, the Mission Impossible music. Yeah, they'll go, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. And so we open the envelope and we find out at that particular time what host we were having and what kind of show we were going to produce. So I got aging, Carol, an aging Carol. Who is the advice columnist for Elle magazine? She's been in the news a lot lately for other reasons. We took her column, advice column and we brought it to television. And we were the first show of the network to be nominated for Cable Ace Award. This is before cable and regular television merged. It was the Emmy Awards. We were cable ACE Awards. And the reason we were nominated for cable ACE Awards is because Jane had found a lump in her breast. And she was terrified. And the only reason that she would go and have the surgery is if we kind of followed her along. And so we ended up doing a story about what breasts mean to women and what it means to lose your breast as a as a woman. Did that mean that you're less feminine now? Anyway, we got this award. Here we are, this little itty bitty show of like five people and we're out in Hollywood on the red carpet. It was such a surreal moment. But NBC decided they were going to turn America's talking into what is now MSNBC. I opted not to stay on for news because I wanted to branch out from news. So I decided to leave and I went to Fox and worked for a little show called Fox after breakfast and Fox after breakfast. Was this really a wacky show in a six to five hundred square foot apartment on Fifth Avenue in New York City? And it was the first show that kind of constituted the outdoor concerts, curbside concerts. Now, the Today Show is doing them on. Good Morning America is doing them. And if you add Tom Bergeron and Laurie Hubbert were the co-hosts at that particular time. Now, that show eventually was canceled. And then I went to The View and I was one of the original producers of The View at that time, it was Barbara Walters. Joy Bay Hard. Meredith Vieira. Star Jones. And Debbie Matenopoulos.

[00:09:58] I left The View. To start pure joy, wellness. So that's kind of the trajectory of my career.

[00:10:07] That makes sense to me a lot more so now. I wasn't I wasn't read in on The View. A lot of your other points I had my my crew had done some good digging. But from what I understand of pure joy, wellness, that transition makes a lot of sense to me. Did it to you then when you did it?

[00:10:25] Oh, it it it it kind of did.

[00:10:28] But tell me why it makes sense to you. OK.

[00:10:31] So I am an early I watched the first season of The View and this guy goes into my own testimony about coming up. The reason why I endeavored this podcast in the beginning was I, growing up as a young, strong feminist woman, was most moved and taught by most people like me hearing other women stories. Any stories. Kalinda's to astrophysicists? Yes, women sharing their stories and their platform and their voice was. It was like food and water to me growing up. And I did not have an oppressive household. I came up as a third generation feminist, but I couldn't get enough of it. It was I was, you know, the the society I grew up in deprived me on such a regular basis. So the view was something that I was anticipating as it was coming out. But for me, the. OK. So it's changed a lot.

[00:11:22] Get into any of that. And I won't fall.

[00:11:26] And I like I like shows I think shows that don't change die, you know. And I don't mind metamorphosis and that that's a whole different conversation. But the first season of The View for me. It kind of endeavored to do Oprah roundtable. Like I felt like there was like they were going to bring in. And I liked the kind of even though there were different levels within it, they had these multiple host formats. And I liked the idea of like this roundtable of women all coming together and having this conversation. And for me, it felt like, first of all, flagship of its kind, seeing I was the lieu of women in front of me instead of just a token one or two. Yes. Monumental the audience as well. You know, all of these like this this female kingdom moment. And then also it felt like even though the first season was a little bit more shy about how they coded it, they were really going to start talking about women like not women and men, but like women and issues that women dealt with.

[00:12:27] Yeah, I think I think the concept of the show was there were the opinions from five different generations.

[00:12:35] So from 20 on. What the reason that I.

[00:12:44] Decided to get out of television, which was twofold. One, I felt like there was a bigger purpose for me, right? As a child, I grew up in a family where I like to say, if you ever saw the movie Sixth Sense and they say, I see dead people. I grew up, I saw sick people and everyone around me was sick and my family. And it scared the crap out of me. And I really did not want to become sick. So as a child, I studied everything that I could find on exercise and nutrition and anything, any reason that I could prevent being sick like. Like my family. And so I got into television and went on to television. And while I liked it.

[00:13:35] I didn't love it.

[00:13:37] And what I found television to be for me, for me, I found it to be a very.

[00:13:47] I do want to say an abusive business, because I. I'm all about women taking care of themselves. And I just saw television being anti that. Yeah. Unhealthy food, long hours. You work yourself to the grind. You're only as good as the last thing you produce. You could have produced like a thousand award winning shows, but you missing one little thing on and you're berated. And I just was just like, this is just too much. So I was always drawn to a bigger, bigger passion and I really felt it was important for me.

[00:14:22] To teach women. The importance of taking care of yourself and also putting yourself first.

[00:14:32] I saw many, many, many, many women who who put their husbands first, who put everybody above themselves and they always put themselves last.

[00:14:42] And the generation that I grew up in, that was kind of the thing you were brought up to. You know, you you are the spouse that does the cooking and the cleaning. And I can tell you how to iron a shirt like crazy. My mom taught me how was shirt without creases in him and all that kind of. But I used to tell her, I said, what? I'm not going to be that, you know, I'm not going to be that woman who is going to be ironing her husband's shirts. But at the same time, I also grew up on the cost of the women's movement where it's like burn your bra. Hell, no, we're not going to do this anymore. And so I kind of saw both sides. So when I decided I was going to leave television, it's really interesting because I did not have a plan.

[00:15:27] I do not have a plan. I just was like, this is my passion and I'm just going to leave and I'm just going to do it. And that's what I did.

[00:15:39] So when you say you didn't have a plan, did you have an idea?

[00:15:42] Well, I mean, I knew I knew it. You've done it right? Well, I was going to be health and wellness related, and I knew it was going to be helping women get healthy. But in terms of what I know about business now and coming, you know, having a business plan and, you know, all that kind of stuff. No, that's not how I started. I just decided, OK, I'm going to do this. And my friends helped me. They're kind of like, OK, you can work with me. And through that, people would see me and I just organically started gathering a clientele and only until recently. To be perfectly honest, we only until recently did I really think about in terms of, OK, how am I going to market this business? I get a whole clientele without any marketing, without any funding, without any anything. Just by pure passion, believing and knowing that what I had and what I am here to do was much bigger than me.

[00:16:43] And it was so important for me, for women to understand their worth, their importance. Why why health was so important that without your health, your quality of life suffers. You know, I watch women and my family's quality of life suffer because they do not have their health. I didn't want any other woman to have to fall through that path if I could help it, if I could reach them, if I could talk to them.

[00:17:10] Yeah. And I think the quality of health is packaged in other ways. It's appearing beautiful, being fashionable. It's never for the happiness of love. But what I hear is that they I was thinking about it.

[00:17:22] So interesting. I would think about this. And I went back through my health journey and in my 20s, it was all about me being really, really fat. And how then can I be? And I did all these drastic things where I took like diet pills and I wouldn't eat because that was that was, you know, beauty, healthy, whatever. In my thirties. I learned weight training. That totally changed my body. But the eating thing was still not there in my forties, I started gathering and. OK. You got to do cardiovascular work. You got to do strength training. You got to look at what you're eating. And then I hit my 50s and I went through menopause and all hell broke loose. Everything changed when I went through menopause. So what I tell women.

[00:18:16] I see women who are exercise like my thousand hours a day. I don't. Their bodies look great.

[00:18:26] I don't necessarily consider them healthy, though. No. You know, I look at health. It's a balance of a lot of different things. You know, yes, you have to, you know, eat well. Yes. Movement is really, really important. Yes. You need to get sleep. Yes. You need to drink water. But you know what? You need to balance it all out. You know, it's like with anything if you're all here and all they are, you know, it's all about. I don't consider that very, very healthy. You know, you need to have connection with with your friends and your family and, ah, have some kind of passion for some type of cause or some kind of purpose. You know, all of those things for me encompass what it means to be healthy. And that's what I tried to teach my clients. So where I am right now, and the reason I like to focus on women over 50 is because as I started with my training and working with women and naturally I started hearing certain things, women started saying to me that we're over 50. They feel invisible. The health and wellness industry catered to women in their 20s, in their 30s and left this whole demographic out. Yeah, they were going through things like menopause. They were going they were empty nesters. Some of them were going through divorces because their husbands were, you know, leaving them for younger, younger women.

[00:19:48] They had careers. And now because of the shift in the way, you know, the corporate structure is, you know, they didn't want to pay them the amount of money that they were paying them when they could get somebody younger to do it for less amount of money. They were having hard times finding jobs and interviewing with people that were younger than they were and had less experience than they were. And so here are these all of these women. Who had no voice. Who had no place to go. Who felt invisible? Who felt. Work with. And I'm like, hey, we need to do something about that. Yeah.

[00:20:25] And so that's where the business is now focusing on that.

[00:20:29] OK, I want to get into for every of my earlier audience. I will cover it. Per your request.

[00:20:37] So when do you feel if there wasn't a confirmed time. When do you feel that pure wellness joy was launched? Did you take funding, including your own? Did you bootstrap? Did you have founders? Did it launch with a Web site or just a Rolodex of clients?

[00:20:55] So there was pure joy, wellness. That went for many years and then there was. OK, now I'm turning this into a business. OK, so in 2014 I decided, OK, this is really a bona fide business. This isn't something I'm doing on this side. This is a bona fide business. So the first thing I did was figure out the branding of the business. You know what that was going to be? What was going to be my brand promise? What? And so I came up with this thing. Well, one of the things I thought, you know, like what sets me apart from everybody else that's out there because there's so many health and wellness scorers out there.

[00:21:39] And the thing that set me apart was a thing that in the beginning I didn't want to say. And that was my age.

[00:21:50] So the thing that in the beginning, it was like, don't say that you're this age because that means that you're old. I said, No, no, no. That's my calling card. So what's my brand promise? My brand promise is.

[00:22:05] Be young because I'm like, I'm 63, so young. You know? Yeah, strong. I really want women to be strong in all areas of their life. Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, to be strong and sexy. Every woman wants to still feel like, you know, hey, I have it. So the brand promise will be young, strong and sexy for life.

[00:22:28] That was it. So I started off by building the Web site.

[00:22:35] You were gonna say something? Yeah. Well, I was. I mean, I know I think you're going to get there with it. So I'm gonna hold back. Which I'm not sure I'm doing. And I just wonder this at a young, strong and sexy.

[00:22:50] And that cell into me, you're gonna you're gonna climb into the website. But first of all, did you decide that you were only going to work with people over 50. Up front? Was that something that was naturally happening in the kind of informal phase of, I think, wellness?

[00:23:09] I think that sort of naturally happened in the ongoing phase now. I still work with with women that are in their 20s and in their thirties. And they're but the bulk of my clients now are women that are 50 plus. One of the reasons that is, is because I'm over 50. So I think there is this parallel of what kinds of things that I have experienced that they're experiencing. What have I gone through that they may be going through now that I can share that experience with them?

[00:23:38] You know, I'm a mom on a grand mom.

[00:23:42] I've gone through menopause. I've lost my husband. You know, all of these things. I've switched careers, you know, all of these things that they are experiencing.

[00:23:52] I share my as well. So I I felt like they could relate to where I was and I could relate to them. So it was a natural sort of thing. The other thing is that I'm really good at listening. And they really needed to talk. They really needed to talk. And they really needed a place where they could settle and feel like that. There was someone there that was listening to them because, again, society says once you're past 40.

[00:24:22] You know, basically, what's your worth?

[00:24:24] And so and a lot of women were feeling that way. And I'm saying, hey, I'm 63 and I haven't fallen apart. I'm sixty three and I'm still doing this. I'm 63. I'm still doing that. The other thing is to say that I'm 63 and say out loud and proud and not be like I'm 64. I don't tell anybody, you know. And say to women, be proud of your age. Be proud of the life that you've led. Be proud of that and not shrink down from it. So that's how that came about.

[00:24:56] Absolutely. Well, and I mean, if yeah. Those two things equate for me as an academic as coming from a family of academia. You know, if you've published 52 works and have three pages in your twenty seven.

[00:25:09] Yeah. You're kind of a sevi. You're not really you're not taken that seriously. You'd better be about seventy five instead.

[00:25:16] Yeah. I equate age with a lot of brevity that I want as well in this world. You know, if you meet a 22 year old that has four kids, it's like, ah, you've had kind of half life. You meet a 40 year old that hasn't seen a so those types of things kind of way out. And I think it's a reminder of that. It's weird in my Mother's Day, this, you know, this compliment that you look so much younger for your age. Why and why are those things attached to beauty and requestion ing? Those things I think are good. I'm curious how you tie in the sexy part, because I've haven't looked a great deal into menopause and I've had a lot of conversations with women organically when they talk about their career. They talk about menopause either approaching, going through or having gone through it. It plays into one's life in all aspects, regardless of how much we think we can hide or taught to hide from it. But the sexy aspect is something that a lot of women talk about when they when they have a successful outcome with menopause, even before experiencing a reclaiming, it feels that they have this relationship where they felt like they were kind of detached from it because the conversation, they couldn't have an honest dialog with their environment. And so they couldn't be sexy within that. And I'm wondering how you include that into your philosophical structure with your clients, because it seems like a more difficult aspect with women over 50.

[00:26:33] Well, it is. I struggled with that when I first went through menopause and my body went nuts, literally. It went nuts. And I went to my doctor and I said, what the hell is going on? She goes, Oh, you're going through menopause. You know, just, you know, exercise more and eat less. Well, I'm like, have you let me know what exercises work or better? And so then she said, you just have to deal with it.

[00:27:02] And literally my libido. Was non-existent. So I'm with this man who's nine years older than me.

[00:27:14] And we're not having sex anymore because I just don't. I don't have the desire. And so he's coming to me and he's saying, you know, what's going on? You know, you're not attracted to me. I was afraid to tell him that I was going through menopause because I'm kind of like, he's gonna think I'm old now. He's nine years older than me. And I'm worried about him thinking that I'm old. So. So I had to figure out how to get my body back and feel like myself again so that I could feel like I could have a normal sex life and I can have a normal relationship and not all of those kinds of thing. And that's where I talk about the sexy part. I think that every woman still wants to feel like that there the desire of their man's eye or the desire of their partners eye or whatever. They still want to feel like that they're a woman in every sense of in every sense of what that means. I remember the first time I realized my mom was a woman. And I was like, just, you know, that she had those wants and desires and all those kinds of things. So the sexy part I say, is recapturing yourself and feeling good and wanting to still have that part of your life. Like it hasn't gone away.

[00:28:35] Absolutely. And I think it's it's a crucial and integral one that a lot of people important look.

[00:28:41] Yeah. It's really it's really, really important, you know, the sexual beings of us. It's also important. And it's good for your health.

[00:28:49] Yes, it is. Health is really old. Optimal health is happiness.

[00:28:53] And from all different aspects, I agree. And I think that you do a good job of incorporating that. I want to pivot and go back to your Web site development and what? Because I think that so here is my assumption. And this comes from 20 years of, you know, sitting around Silicon Valley and kind of bird's eye view with very little invested myself just watching people develop businesses for 20 years. And my interest in it is that there seems to be a great deal of conversation that people have with their brand when they go into develop a Web site that they hadn't had before. He has even as tincture based as someone can think that they are, they've gotten to the core axiomatic principles of what their brand is when they go to develop a Web site. It is completely reanalyzed there because it's a it's a visual process. It's a noncommunist captive verbally. It's a you know, the whole platform changes like with any art that imposes on the other senses. And so I want to know if that happened for you, if it kind of fine tuned what your brand was as you start to develop the Web site and indeed take it from this informal to the formal brand. And if so, what things came out of that time period?

[00:30:01] The Web site is always evolving as the brand evolves. It will change probably in a couple of months somewhat to be more engaging towards my specific audience as I become more clear, as I became more clear on what it was that my target audience was. The Web site changes should go towards that. Like right now, the Web site talks about what we offer, but it doesn't really go into the specifics of where I'm really catering towards women over 50. I really want to change this conversation about aging. I really want to build this community, a community where women can, you know, meet up with other like minded women that aren't afraid, that are brave, to have real conversations about issues that that concern them the other day. I had everything going on in the country right now. I've started my community on Facebook. And one of the members says, hey, you know, I want to have a conversation about about race and racism, you know?

[00:31:11] And so people are thinking, well, why would I have a conversation about race and racism on the health and wellness, you know, lifestyle brand? Well, you know, that creates a lot of stress. I am a black woman. So I get a bunch of women together, half black, half or white. We have the zooming we have this intense conversation around race. I was really terrified that having to be honest with you, because I'm like, is that a hot button topic? But I'm glad that I did, because here are these women that are part of this community, the pure joy of this community. They want to have dialogs about different things. They're not women who are just you know, I'm interested in having a bikini body in six weeks. That's not who we are. That's not it. These are women who have live lives. They're interested in what's happening in the country. They're interested in politics. They're interested and in climate change if they want to have conversations about it. So we frame it in terms of how does it affect your health? You know, the race issue where the black women, how does it create stress in your life? Yeah, no, how does that how do you manage that climate change? How is that affecting you? Is it are you having clean drinking water? How is this affecting your life? And if it's affecting you, what can we do about it? So, you know, when when when I look at other brands that are health and wellness brands, they're dealing with things. And maybe it's because we're older, you know, because I'm older, because I have a broader interest. And I know that these women do, too, that our brains are not just a one dimensional, but they are mohie dimensional. We have lots of different interests. But all of these things do affect our well-being and it always comes back to that.

[00:33:01] Absolutely.

[00:33:02] I think I'll go back to answer your question. The Web site changes as the brand gets clear on the focus of who our target audience is and what it is that they actually want.

[00:33:19] Yeah, and as it changes, as you fulfill that, the dialog between those two. Absolutely. That should be ever changing.

[00:33:25] I'm as powerful as we talked about a little bit about The View. You know, I think that brands that don't change don't represent real people behind them. It's toilet paper. It's very rare. You know, it's not it's not a real thing, especially in service industry. People get into conversations about wanting strongholds and, you know, the Coca-Cola emblem and all of these things. And I'm like, if it's not changing and constantly being evaluated, it's not video walls because as human beings, we evolve.

[00:33:54] Like what I felt about health and wellness in my 20s is certainly not how I see it in my 60s. I mean, I can see elements of that. You know, I talk about like in my 20s, Jane Fonda was really big and everybody was following Jane Fonda. But Jane Fonda didn't talk about that. She was Billy Mick. No, that would have been a real conversation. Yeah. So everybody's trying to get to where Jane Fonda is without having all that information. Right. So would you say that was really healthy? It could have been if we would have had that real conversation, but we weren't having that conversation around me. Right. And how many women trying to.

[00:34:40] Buy into this norm that we're supposed to be a certain size and everything we did to try to fit into that size. You know, no one was really talking about that until Karen Carpenter died of anorexia. It was like, what? What is that? You know what I mean? So it's it's like. What I want to do is before we get to that, wait, let's have those conversations like how are how do you feel about your body? Yeah. You know, I know how I. Sometimes I wake up in the morning, I look at my body and I ask. You know, I hate this, I hate this, I hate that. Other times I like up and I look at my my I'm like, I'm gorgeous. Yeah. You know, but there are a lot of women out there that are.

[00:35:28] Don't like the way that they look. I have women in their 70s bringing me pictures of what they look like when they were 18. And I'm going, really? This is this is your goal? Yeah. They're really framing it for them that, you know, when I look at my body when I was 18, yeah, it was great.

[00:35:49] I would look horrible like that right now.

[00:35:53] And you'd have to, Benjamin. I mean, the whole concept of looking how one wasn't emotionally. Do you really want your emotional state at 18?

[00:36:00] That's absurd. Thinking about people are thinking about that. That's that's that's the missing link. So it's like tying it all together. This is why I'm saying looking at the whole picture. Most people fragmented and they go, OK. Their body, they want this part, but they're not making that connection to be, you know. Well, what does that mean exactly? Like I've had I've had women say things to me and I'm going I don't I'm not connecting to that. And then I meet their moms and then I get it. So it's a complicated we're complicated, you know, creatures. And the the big thing for me, it's about acceptance. You know, getting to the point where. OK. You may not have thighs that are size zero, but your thighs are OK because they're moving you, they're taking you around in the world and you're getting around in that. And that's a beautiful thing.

[00:36:59] Yes, absolutely. I'm curious throughout that, because you have kind of this legacy. You started off informally and then went to this formal aspect. You have your hands in all the different parts from the business aspect to the emotional, the spiritual, the physical health. What are some of the trends that you've seen change over the past decade regarding all of those things, particularly in women, about 50? Like, have you seen a growth of like four interest, for example, interest in menopause or things of that nature change over the past 10 years? Like what? How is that industry and that presented?

[00:37:34] Are you're just now starting to talk about menopause? I think I saw there was an article that Vogue magazine published a couple of months ago about menopause being the new frontier in women's health and was like, oh, my God, people are starting to talk about menopause. I see other practitioners starting to really engage in that conversation around menopause, which I think is a really, really good thing, because when I went through menopause, no one wants to talk about it. Right. There was no one wanted to talk about. It was like, hush hush, you know, secret thing you don't you don't talk about. I think the more we open up or we expand and we talk about those experiences, like what is that like? What does that mean? Menopause to me in the beginning, it was very scary. Now I see it as an opportunity, you know, one I don't have to have a period a word.

[00:38:27] Thank goodness I have to go through that. But it kind of frees me up a little bit, you know, so I think it's important for us to start having that conversation. And when it starts going mainstream, you know, that the shift is the shift is coming. When Vogue starts publishing articles about menopause, you know that that shift is starting to come as more women are becoming older. You see things like people are starting to embrace being fifty, like the celebrities are starting to embrace being 50. Jennifer Lopez just turned 50. And there was a big thing like, oh, Jay loads turning 50. And so that becomes the conversation that getting older is not a bad thing. And a lot of celebrities are kind of embracing that. But then that brings on a different kind of conversation because women are going, well, I don't I'm over 50, but I don't look like that. Right. And and am I supposed to look like that at 50? And I feel like a failure because I don't look like that at 50. And what I say to that is, you know, we have to stop comparing ourselves to other women. Women are we're our worst critics. We have to go here. This is where I am and embrace where I am and be the best that I can be. And one of my favorite books is before agreements. And in the four agreements, there's this one thing that says always do your best.

[00:39:59] Knowing that your best is going to be different from day to day. But as long as you do your best. That's that's all you can ask for. And so if I'm trying to compare myself to Jennifer Lopez, I'm going to feel horrible. I'm going to fail.

[00:40:18] But if I only compare myself to me, then I'm kicking ass, I'm rocking it, you know? And so.

[00:40:26] I think that's bad.

[00:40:28] That's kind of where we are. So as the celebrities start embracing 50 then and they look a certain way. That brings on a whole other thing for women who aren't celebrities on what the expectation is supposed to be.

[00:40:43] And I'm saying. The expectation is all on ourselves.

[00:40:48] Yeah. And I've seen a trend speaking to that.

[00:40:50] I think that this is from my own personal testimony, but I'm 43 and I felt like when I started having children, I started relatively young because in the Bay Area, the average age from women starting to have children was in their thirties and I was 27. So as I was cutting that that curve, I it wasn't spoken about. There was very few baby clothes to choose from. Everything was incredibly sexist, everything. And then it felt like within seven years all of Hollywood started having children and the market just boomed.

[00:41:21] You can get organic diapers this year. It was this like a wakin strollers used to be really almost barbaric. And now our light and gorgeous machinery, like practically jogging coffee. Yeah. So the celebrities decide they're come up. Then it's like, oh, OK. No, it's OK. So I feel like female issues are slowly.

[00:41:43] And with that, what happens? Everyone starts studying birth, IVF. All of the new forms of family start to become talked about and engaged within accepted.

[00:41:53] And so I'm hoping that that comes with menopause as well, because we don't really study talk about menopause, you know, and that's the issue and all their lot talking about menopause, we need funding as well.

[00:42:05] No one studied it. You know, I had an M.D. go on record with me saying you don't understand. Like, we haven't even studied the female heart. We study a group of hearts largely are white men. And we say that's what we know about the human heart.

[00:42:20] There is like there are fundamental differences between male bodies.

[00:42:24] I know that I've spoken to women that were very angry. And they say, like when a man reaches a certain age, they develop that low blue pill so they could still get out and insurance pays for it. There is nothing for women in that regard. Absolutely nothing. So we have to learn how to figure that out on our own. But that's still the difference between men and women. As long as men are, like, empowered, they're thinking about themselves. They're not. We'll find out. Well, do we have to get there? We're where we are.

[00:42:59] And we're a campaign, you and I, we're gonna get there and all of us. And I'm wondering, moving forward with the future, because you've had this growth and you had this natural growth in the beginning and then you implement it and you're very good about being tangible and changing everything up and really listening to the community and your goals. Do you make goals for like the next one to three years? Is that the way that you look at the future and your company and your work? And if so, what are some of those now?

[00:43:26] Some of my goals are expanding the community. I really want to do sort of like a talk series, you know, have a place where women can come and have these conversations, bring in speakers and do that kind of thing. I also want to compile the Pure Joy Wellness Center. And that center encompasses all the things that, sure, joy wellness is so there would be an auditorium where we would have those conversations. There would be a test kitchen where you bring in different chefs and you teach how to cook, you know, healthy meals and also talk about nutrition and that kind of thing. They would also be, you know, a training floor for movement exercise, but also for mobility, because as women get older, more mobility and flexibility and balance is really, really crucially important. So there would be an emphasis on that. Then we have I'm I'm off or pampering and spa services and things like that, too. So I believe and, you know, face shows and the sizes and all those things to take care of yourself as well as, you know, meditation. We'd had sleep pods where women can come in in the middle of day where they just want to get away from their husbands or their kids or whatever. They can come in and take a nap, that sort of thing. And and like acupuncture and stuff like that. So it would be a place where women could come together. They can kind of hang out if they just want to hang out or they can participate and in all of those other things. So I believe in there being a very heavy educational component to it. This is why I would want to bring in speakers and again, have a place where women can come and they can really talk. I think there is this hunger for women to be able to talk about what they're feeling, what they are experiencing, what they're going through. And so that they don't feel alone and they don't feel invisible. Yes. Samantha and I really do want to change the conversation about aging being a bad thing.

[00:45:36] Yeah, I do, too.

[00:45:38] I think our key to happiness and because I know that it's happened is one after like we we it's going to happen. You can lie about it.

[00:45:47] But but but but we're still in denial of it. And I just want women to embrace it. And and, you know, and I'm gonna do that part to try to make that happen. Now, people say to me, oh, well, you can say that because you look the way that you look like you're 60 something, but you don't look like you. And this is all true. But. I've been working on it for a very, very long time, and a big part of that hasn't been my exterior. It's been my interior. Working on my from the inside out because I believe that the help from it. From the inside out. Not from the outside.

[00:46:23] Absolutely. Where will it be? The center. Which state. But the flagship will.

[00:46:29] I'm hoping for it to be in Manhattan. I've already done the renderings for it and all of that. My goal ultimately, if it works in Manhattan, we would kind of have it in different cities around the country. And it would be. Yeah. So it'll be a place where women over 50 to come to beautiful all mine.

[00:46:48] Bring here. San Diego or L.A.. I'll go for it. You bet. Yeah. Well we're not at we're out of time. We're off to my final question. And for those of you that follow the series, it's some of your favorites as well.

[00:46:59] And everyone knows it's one of my favorite things to ask. But I'm wondering, particularly with the most recent state of affairs, both with the pandemic as well as the social uprising and unease and things like that happening right now, I want all of those things considered in your answer, because I don't think it's fair to kind of do it in a vacuum. But if you are to social safe social distance tomorrow in a park or a garden somewhere and a young woman or female identified non binary individual, anyone other than kind of assist Ginger White man walked up to you tomorrow and said, listen, I'm so glad I found you. I've got this incredible background. I started off. I you know, I thought I was gonna go into radio. I went into television. I had this prolific career. I spanned multiple different enterprises. I flagship did a great deal of things. And then one day I up and on the heels of a great success, turned around and started my own wellness journey. And I'm just getting ready to kind of launch in and do that now. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?

[00:48:04] Number one, make sure you're passionate about it. Because being an entrepreneur and starting a business is really, really hard.

[00:48:15] So you have to have that passion for when things because there are times you're going to wonder, you know, maybe I should go out and get a real job. This is so so passion is really, really important to.

[00:48:28] Find a mentor. Surround yourself with.

[00:48:33] Either other entrepreneurs or a mentor or someone who has walked that path. Because it's a lonely place to be. It helps when you have other people that understand what you're experiencing because your your friends really don't share you. It's a you need people that that understand. And the last thing that I would piece of advice that I would give is as long as you believe.

[00:49:03] That's possible, and you believe in yourself, then go for it, girl. Just go for it.

[00:49:09] Absolutely. I completely concur. And I think that people can hear those kinds of words and not really resonate with it. Believing is is everything.

[00:49:18] It's really I mean, every cult founder knew that.

[00:49:21] I don't know. I can't figure it out. You know, there are some people who probably have some evil, crazy things. Yes. All right. So I have no one.

[00:49:29] Make sure you're passionate about it. No. To find a mentor, you need a community. You need people to advise you as well. And number three, as long as you believe in it, go for it.

[00:49:37] Girl, that's so perfect.

[00:49:40] I love it. Run out. Thank you so much for speaking with us today. We're out of time. I'm devastated. I could talk with you all afternoon.

[00:49:47] You're wonderful.

[00:49:48] Absolutely. And for everyone listening. This has been Renata Joy speaking with us. She's the founder, nutrition expert and personal trainer. You can find out more about all of her endeavors and her Web site.

[00:49:59] W w w dot. Pure joy, wellness dot com.

[00:50:03] Thank you so much for giving me and us your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slaínte.

View Details

Today I am speaking with Sheena Russell. Sheena is founder & CEO of Made with Local, a health snacks company based in Nova Scotia. What started as a farmer's market table in 2012 has grown into a nationally-distributed brand known for delicious Real Food Bars and their innovative social-impact production model. You can find Made with Local's products in 1000 retailers all across Canada!

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with founder and CEO of Made with Local Sheena Russell, made with Local as a health snacks company based in Nova Scotia. Key points addressed where Sheena's launch of Made with Local and the ethos behind the company culture and brand. We also discussed her incredible efforts to keep made with local, sustainable, responsible, made locally with local ingredients and filled with good intentions and love. Stay tuned for my awesome chat with Sheena Russell.

[00:01:31] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today we are sitting down with Sheena Russell. Sheena is the founder and CEO of Made with Local. You can find out more about it and our conversation about everything we impact today at w w w dot made local made with local dot s.a. Welcome, Sheena.

[00:01:51] Thank you so much.

[00:01:52] Thanks for coming on. I'm excited to talk to you and unpack everything for everyone listening. And we'll give you a brief bio on Sheena before I start peppering her with questions. But prior to that roadmap for today's podcast, just so for those of you that are new, can kind of follow along and realize we're we're kind of pulling all of our inquiries from we'll first look at unpacking Sheena's academic and professional background and then we'll turn straight to unpacking made with local and we'll first look at the logistics and then turn some of our inquiry towards the ethos and the philosophy behind the company, which it pulls heavily for it being a B corp and things of that nature. And then we'll turn towards goals and plans that Sheena has built for herself and made with local moving forward for the next one to three years. This is an area that has changed greatly with a lot of people with the most recent COVID 19 pandemic upon us. And we'll wrap everything up with goals, advice that Tina may have for those of you who are looking to get involved, maybe emulate some of her success and OK. So before we get started, a quick bio on Sina Sina. Russell is founder and CEO of Made with Local, a health snacks company based in Nova Scotia. What started as a farmer's market table in 2012 has grown into a nationally distributed brand known for delicious real food bars and their innovative social impact production model. You can find made with locals products in a thousand retailers across all across Canada. So again, their website is w w w dot made with local dot C eight. So she not prior to R before we jump in to kind of unpacking meat with local and I love it. I like, I really kind of climb through all of the aspects of your website and I can't wait to kind of pepper you with questions.

[00:03:33] But before we get to that, I was hoping you could kind of describe your academic and professional background prior to launching the company.

[00:03:42] Sure. So I grew up on PTI. Born and raised, rural Prince Edward Island girl. And out of high school, I did one year at the University of Prince Edward Island and then recognize that it kind of felt like high school 2.0.

[00:03:58] Now, I got home Hometown University and applied to go to Dalhousie University here in Halifax and got accepted. Which is really exciting. So I was one of the first people in my pretty large extended family to go off island for post-secondary. So I got accepted into DOWL to do a Bachelor of Science at the Focus and Environmental Sustainability.

[00:04:21] So that was perfectly in line with, you know, my passion as even as a kid. Now, I've always been really sustainability and, you know, environmentally conscious minded even as a 10 year old. So that was always my path. Right. I ended up at DILE to do a bachelors degree and then pretty quickly moved into a great job for a young person, especially after having just graduated. And a government municipal position doing education for the City of Halifax's recycling program. So it was kind of like felt like the jackpot at the time. And and. Yeah.

[00:05:03] So that was, that was the job that I was working when I started. Made with local as a side hustle.

[00:05:10] Nice.

[00:05:11] So I'm wondering, even though you know, and we'll get into the ethos and how much that really does unite with this, like recycling education program that sounds like you just started with. But it seems like entrepreneurship is not just necessarily a progression will step in a lot of people's lives. It's this kind of different trait that one has to have starting to farmer's markets. We've talked to a couple of companies over the past three years that have really gotten their footing in farmers markets. And I think it's an area that a lot of people who start with a product based startup don't realize is like this wonderful nesting place, at least in the United States. I don't know how much it varies in Canada. I have not meant to a Canadian farmer's market, but it's this great place where you get this culmination of testing for immediate feedback. You know, there's there's all of these very quick things that larger companies or companies that don't have access to their consumers or their customers get at a farmer's market. And I'm wondering, when you started, did you intend on going beyond the farmer's market or were did you just want to bring a product to farmers market?

[00:06:16] Yeah, I completely agree with you in that the farmers markets are like the ultimate CPG incubator. Right. And I can't imagine having started a brand without having the invaluable experience of being a farmer's market table for two years. Because, you know, you get to test your pricing.

[00:06:34] You get to literally see your customers with your own two eyeballs and hear how you know, what questions they have about the product and what flavors they tend to gravitate to and how many they buy at a time. And it's just like so juicy. But at the time, I didn't realize what was happening. Right. It's all hindsight for me. At the time, I was 100 percent was just like, this is just this fun little thing that I'm doing on the side. And it felt it felt, you know, really comfortable. Right. And it was definitely tons of work, but not having. Not ever imagining that I was going to be an entrepreneur as a kid. And the young adults like I could be, I really just couldn't even fathom how far this company has gone. And those really early days, like every step we took from the farmer's market, get into wholesale relationships with cafes and some small grocery stores. Every single step felt monumental. And yeah, and, you know, it still feels like that sometimes today, even being in a thousand stores. Coast to coast. But the intention was not right off the get go to get huge. But now I look back and I cherish those farmer's market days because they just were so important.

[00:07:50] Yeah. One and probably for the better. I think that the problem with a lot of entrepreneurs and I do love dreaming big and so there is that other side of it. But I think a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, particularly of Latter Day, like, they tend to be like, you know, it's it's a one point two million gross.

[00:08:06] You know, it's this these great, huge dreams. But it seems like everything underneath that is depressing or less then. So this idea that you had that you were just kind of going to keep going in and celebrating every small success along the way sounds like a happier route, maybe definitely more Canadian. I have a new Canadian friends that sound very like I like that kind of optimism.

[00:08:28] I want to start unpacking it now, since we've kind of hinted all around it and we've got into made with local. So my interest in it. So in the beginning, for all the like nerdy little founders listening out there, can you get into the logistics of the when was it founded?

[00:08:43] And did you have co-founders? Did you bootstrap? Did you take funding and and what products did you launch with?

[00:08:50] Sure. So we started in 2012. And when I say we I co-founded the company with a friend at the time. She was also working for the municipality of Halifax here. So we were work buddies that turned into co-founders. And she she became pregnant with her first child pretty early on in the business. So and I at that point had been fully bitten by the entrepreneurial bug. So pretty early on in the life of the company, I started moving more into like a primary founder role. We launched at the Halifax Seaport Farmer's Market with four Skewes while editing call excuse the time for flavors of bars that were made with local ingredients.

[00:09:27] So Canadian grown oats, honey, from a local supplier, Canadian made nut and seed butters, cranberries, blueberries, just as many ingredients as we could sourced from our region as possible. And this was really at the beginning of the locavore movement. Farmer's markets were becoming much more of a mainstream thing and it was just perfect timing.

[00:09:49] And in 2012, there also weren't the endless number of energy and protein bars that exist today. Like now, it's arguably the most competitive category within natural food, but then it wasn't. So we really did stand out and we continued to stand out in that way and that we've retained those local suppliers. Many of the same suppliers we started with the farmer's market are still our suppliers today, and we've grown their businesses because of our growth and also our process. Our manufacturing process is is still very high touch and and has this incredible social impact, ripple effect that happens because we partner with social enterprises to run our production bakeries. So that happened in twenty fourteen. We started with our social enterprise model that allowed us to scale the company because as most founders know, when you're in the food products space, at a certain point you're gonna have to hand off your manufacturing to somebody else.

[00:10:51] And it feels scary as hell. But it's the only way that you can get out of the weeds and start growing your company. And that's what we did in 2012. But instead of nursery in 2014, but instead of going to, you know, a big Copac or a big manufacturing plant, we created this beautiful relationship with an organization here in Nova Scotia that employs folks who have barriers to the mainstream workforce.

[00:11:17] And they started making our for us and that, you know, six years ago they were making a few hundred birds a week and now they're doing, you know, 10, 20 times that. And we've scaled them up as our growth has continued on. And it's just been a really beautiful partnership.

[00:11:36] Yeah. And I want to make this clear for everyone listening, because I think some of these terms can be glossed over. And to understand it from a manufacturing or from a founding point of view is crucial. And you have a video on your website, Riverlands Listening, that actually does a very good job.

[00:11:49] I'm very into visual interpretation of things like that, and this does a very good job of that as well. So for those of you listening, we want to hit it, hit that video up on made with local thought s.A.

[00:11:58] But the every one of your products is handmade. It's this is not a machine made process, you know. And I think that that's crucial to understand as you start to ramp things up and as you've. Source. I think immediately when people go to outsourcing, they go to this this industry manufacturing warehouse machine made moment. You know, that's just what happens. And it's about quality control. Is it does it taste the same? And you have this very obvious link with the ethos and the philosophy of your company that it needs to be, you know, human to and touched human intended. Your website states love, period, nourish, period, community, period. And it seems like, you know, that you have stretched and and really fought to maintain those three core aspects. And that's even through like the making and packaging of these things in the communities that you've outsourced to do that with.

[00:12:52] And I think it's kind of crucial. I want to get into. I am curious because this is a realm that I've never worked with or funded or done anything like that. Food is something I tend to stay away from. I study it from afar, you know, and I eat very well. But as far as making it in mass quantities, it be terrifying for me.

[00:13:11] I want to know how when you started creating the products. There's so many things to consider, right? There is there is not just the source that it comes from sustainability, agriculture, things that you've obviously considered, you know, being a B corp and things like that. But what about allergies? How did you select flavors? What made you even go into bars? Did you. Were you just making these on the side, like for Fonzie's with your, you know, the recycling and education program? Like, how did all of it come to be as to that was the product that you were going to do?

[00:13:41] Right. So I you know, I look back to 2012 when we first started and all of it was just like so pure, you know, and like innocent, like, I never imagined that I'd be running, you know, a seven figure company today.

[00:13:57] Like, it's just, you know, and so the intentions in the beginning were just to create this really beautiful products using as many local ingredients as we could.

[00:14:08] And another time, I wasn't thinking about, oh, you know, we should do raw bars instead of baked because that will be easier to scale, you know, or we should use this type of sweetener instead of this because, you know, it'll work better in equipment like it was never like it was none of that conscious thought in the beginning, because that just really wasn't on my radar. But, you know, when it comes to, you know, allergens and key features like the differentiator for us in the early days and it continues to be so is that we're using, like, literal food, no foods like ingredients. So things like oats, peanut butter, honey, cranberries or Fairtrade organic dark chocolate, real ingredients with no preservatives. No, no weird shit. Yeah. And in that, you know, we weren't. And local. Right. Handmade. Local and real life. These are the things that we're going to differentiate us from the countless number of bars that sit on store shelves that are literally like kind of like a paste that squeezed out of a tube and then just enrobed and some like weird chocolate esq kind of layer. That is the vast majority of protein and energy bars that you're seeing in most grocery grocery store shelves. And there's a reason why there's so little variation in the flavor and texture of so many bars because they're all kind of squeezed on the same extruder machines. And you have to reverse engineer your formulations to work with the equipment. The the way that's mass manufacturing is means that you are restricted to a certain type of texture and and an ingredient stack. And we've just kind of, you know, so screwed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:15:51] You have to you they all taste. I have to say, I'm probably a little jaded. I'm not a fan of like over ninety nine percent of the bars out there. I feel like they actually got worse after the launch. And then you had labels and different things.

[00:16:06] And I don't want to call people out, even the billionaires out there, because I'm not looking to hate on anyone, but even the ones with simple names, you know? And that seemed like like like honest or whatever, like all of these different. I taste them and they don't they don't taste like anything that was on the label. I don't taste any of the nuts in there. I don't taste any chocolate. I don't taste. It's just like sludge. I think you have the most perfect description for what I taste. It sound it feels like something that came out of a tube like astronauts. It literally is known to live. Yeah. Like it was not intended to be like fresh from my organic farmhouse table. It was more like.

[00:16:44] Yeah, that type of.

[00:16:46] That's what the experience feels like. And I think you train yourself to like it, like people who are very in dubah as I have some girlfriends that are extreme athletes and it's a lot like that gel that they eat when they do their extreme running, it's kind of slam them. It's not an experience of food. It's different from eating. It's like and that's kind of how they've trained themselves to have it.

[00:17:05] And so I agree with that. And I think what you're saying is right, that's the manufacturing piece that I got from your site that I was kind of educated into very briefly without putting identifying key factors to that. We did a really good job of just pointing out what you do and then bringing out an awareness in the viewer of what obviously is not being done with other people. You know, this is handmade hand touched. Like, it's very clear that that would make a difference between yours and someone else's. And to that end, I'm wondering, it sounds like your growth has been like organic, but also just like a rag you've been piloting. But kind of as you fly like this like pathway. And I'm wondering, because it has been this, you know, your growth has been this crazy trajectory from farmers markets to now being available everywhere else. And then you have covered, you know, pandemic reaches back into like online. First of all, are you available anywhere internationally? And is that on your horizon or sites? And is it possible, given that your product is so handcrafted?

[00:18:08] Sure, yeah. We are available online to ship internationally. So folks in the US can order through our e-commerce shop and we'll ship to your door. Easy peasy. And we are, you know, be extensive expansion into the US is a couple of years out for us at this point.

[00:18:27] My my intention with this company is to to go deep with the retailers here in Canada first because it's a sustainable way of doing business. And, you know, there's two ways to grow a company. You either sell more in the same stores or you sell into more stores. Right. And ideally, you're doing both. But what you see in a lot of a lot of situations is distribution, growth, but not depth at retail. And we excel at nourishing relationships with retailers like our independent health food stores. We we love that. You know, we work very closely with them. We make sure the staff have have snacks to sample and that they really understand and experience the brand. And we it just feels so much more rich as a brand and as a company. And for me as a founder, to know that we're focusing on really doing really well at the stores that we're in before we take on the next, you know, whatever B chain or next market. So that's our kind of two year goal for now, is to continue to to enrich the relationships here in Canada. But, you know, as has happened many times in our in our past so far, you're speaking to our growth trajectory. We can pull the long and not that we're not pushing the pace. Of course we are. But there's lots of things that have come up for us where we've been pulled into the market by by incredible demand for a product. So, yeah, yeah. We'll we'll see what happens. The intention for now, though, is, is to be a Canadian brand for the next two years in terms of retail. But e-commerce is fair game. Yeah.

[00:20:07] I mean, you say yeah. And you have a lot of like sage wisdom. And I wonder where did you learn as you go? Did you enter? Were you ever in an incubator?

[00:20:15] Where did you capture all these little nuggets? You're like. You know, we want to develop this really solid home base. Like, that's the number one thing that investor would advise, you know, unless they were trying to grow you too quickly and bankrupt you like it's to develop that really sturdy root threshold so that, you know, you have this base to kind of always return to. Where did you. Did you take business courses? Because, I mean, as as awesome as the education for recycling, sounds like it would have tied into that and things of that nature. It feels like you've acquired a great deal more of education. So what I'm curious about is, did you ever go through an incubator or any type of, you know, a like minded system in Canada or any take any business classes? Do you have a mentor or you lean on anything like that?

[00:21:00] So I've never been part of an incubator. I've never taken a business class in university or college, and I read a lot of books and I've had coaching, I've invested in coaching for myself consistently throughout the course of my entrepreneurial journey. You know, I've been at this for for a while. You know, eight years is not nothing, especially, you know, in this day and age where you see businesses kind of come out of the gates guns blazing and, you know, two or three years after already looking to get acquired. We're we're again, like you mentioned earlier on, this kind of organic path. And I think, you know, this this desire to form rich relationships is.

[00:21:45] Is the culture of made with local as well? Right, it's who I am as a person. You know, we have rich relationships within our company with our suppliers like love nourished community. That's the community piece. Right? You don't want to just blast in a load in two, you know, hundreds of stores at a time and then just be like, cool p.c. Good luck with those. That doesn't work. You have to nurture nourish those relationships.

[00:22:06] And so it's just really it's the cultural alignment that that we make sure touches all points of me with OKL, not just among our team members or suppliers, but to the retail space as well. Again, no, I read books, listen to a lot of podcasts and have had some incredible coaches over the course of my business. So that's cool.

[00:22:29] Yeah, business coaching, mentorship. Like, I think that that good old fashioned reading, dear someone returned to it. And I'm curious, I got on your site and I saw the bar.

[00:22:41] And then you also have bar mixes and. And I'm wondering when the advent of those came along. I can't believe it. It seems weird. I would think that in the beginning you just had the bars. But I may perhaps I'm wrong and I would like to know when the bar mixes came along. And with that, if there is a lake coming along, another sibling with another product, or if you're just going to stay with those two for right now.

[00:23:03] Yeah, the bar mix has been something that we've had in kind of like a beta format for now, about two years. My came up with the idea standing in my kitchen at home. I was making bars at home like two and a half years ago. Don't ask me why. I'm like I've thousands of boxes in my office, but for some reason I was at home making bars. And I was just thinking, like, how annoying is this that I need to have all these little bags of different seeds and little odds and ends and it's just like annoying and convenient, right? What if I could literally just dump a pouch into a bowl and make it like a cake mix and make granola bars? So that was my my aha moment home and I could do that. So we launched our real food bar mix back in twenty eighteen. And it was it was challenging to get off the ground. You know, it's a total first a market like there is no other granola bar mix in Canada at that point anywhere. And just even then, looking back, you know, the packaging wasn't descriptive enough. It wasn't educational enough. The name Real Food Bar Mix was like way too much of a mouthful because it's not really descriptive either, because people are like, just what is this thing? So we we iterated on that several times. And then just this year, in the last couple of months, I said, you know what, like we've learned so much through these various iterations of the real food bar mix, like let's let's bring this baby together and completely fresh design of the packaging that includes photography of the finished product. We rebranded it to be called Granola Bar Mix because that's much more palatable. And also happened to launch it in retail during a time when the Nielsen data was telling us that baking categories and grocery stores were experiencing like seven X growth. So we just launched it into a chain of grocery stores here in Canada called Loblaws. They have about 500 stores across Canada.

[00:25:00] And, you know, we all know Cauvery your era, we were seeing the baking aisles ransacked. Right. So we have this super awesome, perfected, tried and tested product that's now on the market are granola bar mix and ready for people to.

[00:25:16] To enjoy so auspicious that time. I mean. Unbelievable. That's amazing. And I do like I did. I saw it and I thought, this is. I like that. Like, I wonder why I hadn't seen more of it. And it seems more trustworthy when you're bought with your bars. Like, I don't the sludge we were talking about, the toothpaste, you know, the stuff that's coming out of you can't get that in. It's like baking mix format because then it would just be a whole bunch of different weird piece like fake powder Slainte. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Of we to your product.

[00:25:48] That granola bar mix is literally like the one tenth batch size of our real of our real food bars. Like it is our recipe. We are teaching you how to make real food bars in your own kitchen. And that's something where. So corvids had also shut down our product, a real food bar production facility here in Nova Scotia on March 13. So three months ago, we lost all ability to make our packaged bars. And it was terrifying because our grocery purchase orders were going through the roof and we were just like, you know, hands up and like, we don't have anything to sell you.

[00:26:21] But again, just being able to to really put the turbo charge behind the granola bar Viks and for it to pick up the slack, so to speak, in that time was was pretty amazing. You know, we were joking like we can't make our bars for you, but you can make our bars for yourself now. So we have granola of our mixes. It was an amazing launch and it's ongoing still. It's really exciting.

[00:26:43] It is. It's clever. And it's it's necessary. It's cool that you came up with it. Just doing in your kitchen. I like the idea of. I thought about it because I am by no means a Martha Stewart, but I have a very creative brain where I would say it's a very like wandering brain.

[00:26:58] And so when I saw it, I was like, oh, you could make them into any shape you wanted. You could do like a cube. You could do like a a bunny mold. You could do like anything you wanted with when you're making your own bars, you know, you can play around with different visual aspects that I thought are like it's creative, it's cool and absolutely back into, like making it one zone.

[00:27:18] Like the one thing that that's the end. You're absolutely right. Like, we we talked to people and have an entire recipes section on our Web site so people can look up recipes with fun and creative ways to make the granola bar mix super easy to make like a little energy balls. We've had people around Christmas time do that with gingerbread man. Like there's just so many fun ways to play with it.

[00:27:40] And my favorite thing about the granola bar, Max, aside from it just being an amazing product, is, again, we've really embedded embedded our values right in the and the execution of this product in that, you know, when we're making our bars, we know that there's literally well baked into them because we have these social enterprise partnerships. But when you buy our granola bar mix to make it at home, you're going to see on the preparation instructions on the back, there's step number four, which includes a little note about taking a 10 second pause to send vibes of love and gratitude and jam bars.

[00:28:17] And then you just move on into pressing them into the pan and putting them in the oven. So we inspire our customers in that moment when they're making our bars to take a little moment to be like, OK, you know what this is? This is real food made by real people and I'm grateful for it. And just a little cute prompts. Take a little pause.

[00:28:36] So I love that I ended up loving. I love it, too. And I don't think it like I would go beyond saying it's cute. Like I used to think I was the only one I would say I can taste. Angry food in restaurants. But I just felt like I could taste food where someone was just like enough with that, you know? And I was very sensitive to it. And I thought I was being frilly and stupid and silly and stupid, just a little silly. And I was Fletching Top Chef. And Tom Colicchio was like that. Food tastes angry. And I was like validated. This amazing American chef is like, now I can taste the anger in it.

[00:29:10] And it's like this hastiness with he was describing even the shock value of the vegetable and things like that. But it's the antithesis or it validates what you're saying with this intention. I think every wonderful chef from, you know, the home chef to the greatest Michelin star would say like that intention and the accuracy and the emotion flowing into it, you can absolutely. It's it's an art. You can feel it. You can interpret it as a person eating it later on. So I love that you put that in there. I think that's. I'm wondering with goals, we talked about how you want to, like, really root into your Canadian stronghold before you start branching too far out. But outside of that. Have you looked at your next one to three years because of the cove? It. You know, it started it must have re solidified this conversation with you where you're like, I'm really glad we launched the, you know, the mixes and things like that. Do you have any other goals on the next one to three year horizon? Aside from like cementing into Canada with product development or anything like that, you're going to look at or are you just going to stay on the path that you've kind of described?

[00:30:16] Yeah, I'm really excited to continue on with developing some more products around this baking mix line. I've joked to some of my team about wanting to dig in on this concept of like millennial baking mixes. Right, like the baking category. It's super dusty.

[00:30:33] And it's just it needs to be there needs to be some reinvigoration in the baking mix category because, you know, man, I know for sure that I can use some kitchen hacks in my life. And I love and I'm very committed to feeding my family simple nourishing foods. But like, sometimes you just different. You need help. You need to act. So I feel very strongly about creating some products that align and extend that product line as a granola bar is doing. So from an R&D perspective, that's where my heart is kind of leading me right now. And then, you know, other things that we're working on, on the manufacturing and our social impact side include creating a second production hub in central Canada and Ontario. And that's something that definitely bucks the trend also of large scale manufacturers, where it's all about centralizing and efficiencies. And, you know, it's just these massive food systems that are efficiency over everything. Right. We've seen through covered that these massive corporate archaic food systems get fucked up whenever things go sideways. Right. Like, I look at all these meat packing plants and these huge conglomerates, like as soon as there's something really dire happening in the world, they can't they're not agile enough to respond. And who is picking up the slack for that? All the small farmers and food producers and entrepreneurs who can pop up an online shop and a night on Shopify and all of a sudden can service a community or can bring their entire farmer's market online and are now delivering thousands of boxes through community every week. Like it's just incredible, the agility of small scale, decentralized food systems. And that's something that we are using as our model to scale our production, because, you know, people hear our story and they hear about how our bars are handmade. And the number one thing I get asked is, well, how are you going to scale that? And it's which is a valid question. And we have right. We've we've successfully scaled the business to this point. And instead of, you know, deciding, OK, you know, we've gotten to here, but now it's time to finally, you know, take the big leap to full automation and a centralized plant. We are going to build out a second production hub with the model that we've created here in Atlantic Canada on the East Coast and replicate it with local farmers, local food producers and a social enterprise in central Canada that will service more customers in that market. So, you know, creating some redundancy, which is a good thing if you have a tight system and engaging more farmers and food producers and also reducing our climate footprint because you're not shipping ingredients and finished product criss crossing, you know, coast to coast, which is what we're currently doing.

[00:33:27] So that is something that we're working on right now. And we've identified a really amazing social enterprise partner in Toronto that is turning to our new partner. Yeah.

[00:33:36] And then really, I will be Vancouver after that, do you think?

[00:33:39] Yeah. Yeah. That's the plan.

[00:33:41] Nice. That's. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that idea. And I think you're completely right. You know, I think that it's and it is antithetical, but so is your entire company.

[00:33:52] And it's working out beautifully. You know, so I say stay the course. Thank you.

[00:33:57] Absolutely. Well, our time is running out and we're to one of my favorite pieces of the podcast, which is I get to describe to you, if you were at a safe, socially distanced place in a Gardiner Park tomorrow and a young woman or a female identified or non binary individual and anyone pretty much other than as cis gendered white man walked up to you and said, listen, Gina, I I've I've done my schooling.

[00:34:25] I've I've had kind of like this wonderful dream job. I was educating people and recycling environmental issues. But I mean I mean, I launched this great startup. I I'm not sure exactly where it's headed. I would take it to the farmer's markets. There's a good situation. I feel pretty confident in it. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?

[00:34:47] So no one would be like mentorship and coaching is so credit has been critical to my journey. So I very early on was lucky enough to receive some funding that I could invest in. And a pretty high powered coach who is now one of my very close friend of mine. It doesn't have to be like that. It can be, you know, coffee with a mentor. But but finding mentorship is, I think, one of the most critical things because it can be really lonely. You know, entrepreneurship can feel very isolating and which is a crazy thing to say in this day and age where, of course, there's podcasts and Instagram and like more information than any of us really need.

[00:35:25] But it can still feel isolating. And I know I've been through it myself. So I would say mentorship is huge. What else? You know, if we're talking about a product, race based product, I would say like have a have a production plan in place for understanding how eventually you or you will hand off your production when it's time for you to, you know, work on your business instead of in your business.

[00:35:52] Doesn't have to be something that happens right away. And I actually suggest to any entrepreneurs and food that you yourself are very invested and very involved in manufacturing in the early days because then you intimately know your process and the costs associated with that and then how to create and invest in efficiencies. So that would be, you know, the succession plan out of your own. Manufacturing is one thing I would say is really critical. And, you know, just being unabashedly your own brand, you know, keeping your blinders on to an extent on what other people are doing and just double down on what makes you you and not being scared to use a voice in your brand that you haven't seen anywhere else because that will be your superpower.

[00:36:37] Yeah, absolutely. And it has been yours, at least, I think. And it really is. I want people to get on your website because I really like I think people will agree with me. I always think people will agree with me after I've explained myself.

[00:36:49] But I think in this case, they really well, when they hit your website and kind of get a feel for the video and understanding, you guys do a great deal about talking about the ethos of your company. OK. Back to the advice I have. Mentorship and coaching is crucial in the beginning. Number one. Number two, I have a production succession plan in place for the future handoff. But be very aware of the process as you begin it yourself. Number three, be unabashedly proud of your own brand and aware. I love than I am.

[00:37:21] I think those three are so crucial and they speak to think people really get lost sometimes in like these like, you know, make sure your funding's down, like all of these kind of crazy logistical things that for your story were possibly less crucial. And also, like you lose the the the beauty and, you know, and the three, the love nourishing community, your three on your Web site, you know, in that. And with that, you lose the taste and you lose the flavor and you lose all of those things along the way.

[00:37:52] And with your three with mentorship and production succession and really being unabashedly proud of your own brand and and siccing with it is crucial. I love the story. I think they're perfect. And they describe you. You emulate them perfectly. Shanna, we're out of time today.

[00:38:09] But I want to say thank you so much for meeting up with us and talking and walking us through made with local. I know you guys are really busy, and I do appreciate your time.

[00:38:17] Thanks. This has been so fun.

[00:38:19] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been talking with Sheena Russell. She is the founder and CEO of Made with Local. You can find out more on her website that I have touted nonstop. It is w w w dot made with local. Dot. You can order stuff online at very least get on and check out the company's story. I frequently speak with a lot of companies I love, but I rarely meet with one that I can really get behind their ethos. And this is one of them. So I do appreciate it. And for everyone listening today, I appreciate you and your time.

[00:38:48] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am speaking with Ariel Garten. Ariel is probably one of the most interesting people you will meet. She is a psychotherapist, Neuroscientist, mom, former fashion designer, and the female founder and visionary of an amazing and highly successful tech start-up Muse. Muse tracks your brain during meditation to give you real-time feedback on your meditation, guiding you into the “zone” and solving the problem most of us have when starting a meditation practice. Muse lets you know when you are doing it right. When Ariel is not reading brains (literally) or investing in, inspiring and advising other start-ups and women in biz, you can find her on stages across the world, from TED to MIT to SXSW. She inspires people to understand that they can accomplish anything they want by learning what goes on in their own mind. Ariel is also the co-host of the Untangle Podcast.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their perspective. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts, regardless of age, status or industry. We intend to transparently investigate the evolving global dialog regarding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad by hosting these stories and conversations. We aim to contribute to the changing platform and representation of these individuals for the future. If you're enjoying this podcast series, be sure to check out our subsequent series called Roundtable with Patricia Kathleen, where we talk with a panel of guests regarding key topics that arise in these individual interviews. You can subscribe to all of our podcast series on iTunes, Stitcher or Pod Bean, as well as our Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. And you can also contact me directly via this Web site or through my media Web site. Wild dot agency. That's w i. L. D e dot agency. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:30] My time will be off to the races.

[00:01:38] I said your name right? Ariel, Garten.

[00:01:40] You did. You're actually like the only person ever. So great job.

[00:01:45] I wonder if my little mermaid like, The Little Mermaid with Ariel. Is that how people like to say it?

[00:01:52] People say air-i-el. I say you say r-e-el, which is the right way, but nobody ever does it.

[00:01:57] So, yay, I'm glad. OK.

[00:02:00] Make sure. Yes. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Ariel Garten. Ariel is the founder of Muse, which is a tech startup, a device that gives you Real-Time feedback during and post meditation. You can locate it online at w w w dot. Choose News dot com. Welcome, Ariel.

[00:02:23] Thank you, Patricia.

[00:02:23] It is a joy to be here. I am excited to climb through what you're doing. I'm really excited to have you on today for everyone listening. I will read a brief bio on Ariel.

[00:02:32] Before I do that, though, a quick roadmap of today's podcast will follow the trajectory that all of those in these series do. Namely, we will first unpack oriels academic and brief professional life so that we have a basis of a platform understanding where she came to developing news. Then we will look at unpacking news and the device. What it does, the data that it captures will also get into the nuts and bolts of her enterprise, which is the who, what, when, where, why and how. For all of you entrepreneurs out there, you guys like to hear about founders ship funding. We'll get into all of those logistics and then we'll turn our efforts towards looking at the ethos and kind of the philosophy behind the company. Then we will look towards goals that Orio might have towards the next one to three years. How she's kind of reconceptualizing goals, though, that dialog has changed for a lot of you. Given the recent pandemic, and it's interesting to hear for all of us about that change, and then we will wrap everything up with advice that RTL might have for those of you who want to get involved in what she's doing and perhaps emulate some of her career success. So a quick bio on Orio before I start peppering her with questions. Ariel Garten is probably one of the most interesting people you will meet. She is a psychotherapist, neuroscientist's mom, former fashion designer, and the female founder and visionary of an amazing and highly successful tech startup Muse. News tracks your brain during meditation to give you real time feedback on your meditation, guiding you into the zone and solving problem most of us have when starting a meditation practice. Mused, Let's you know when you are doing it right? When Orio is not reading brains literally or investing in inspiring and advising other tech startups and women and bears, you can find her on stages across the world, from Ted to M.I.T. to south by Southwest. She inspires people to understand that they can accomplish anything they want by learning what goes on in their own mind. Oriol is also the co-host of the Untangled podcast. So Orio, I want to climb through all of that. You have such a prolific history and and what isn't in your bio that I do know from our research is that you have even more history on the back end before Muse was in two realities. I'm hoping right now you can unpack some of your professional and academic background to develop like your own personal platform.

[00:04:57] Sure. So my whole life, I've been kind of split between arts and sciences when I was a teenager in high school. I excelled at the arts. I excelled at sciences. I had a job in a research lab doing embryonic stem stem cell research on knockout mice in the 90s. And I also had a tiny clothing line that I sold on consignment to stores in downtown Toronto where I lived. So I was always kind of parlaying between the world of art and the world of science. And back in the 90s, people would say, well, you can't be an artist and a scientist. You have to choose. You can't do both. And when I went to school, when I went to university, I chose to go for neuroscience because I felt like if you went to arts, you couldn't go back into the sciences yet to continue on with the sciences and then keep doing the arts on the side. So in university, I studied neuroscience at the University of Toronto. I also had an art gallery that I ran. And then as soon as I graduated, I opened a clothing store in basically the front of my house. I was just like, OK, I need to do this clothing thing because I've done the science thing for four years. Yeah. I then continued to work in research labs part time while I ran a clothing line that what I was selling across North America and a store retail store in downtown Toronto. All of this being entirely unable to sew. So it's like I'll just start a clothing line, even though I've no idea how to sew. But I love fashion and I can figure it out. And my family business was very, very small scale real estate. So I was also helping out the family business at the same time. So I was had these multiple career trajectories going simultaneously. I was fascinated by all of them and always kind of felt like I could do what ever I put my mind to.

[00:06:44] So in my mid 20s, I started collaborating with Dr. Steve Mann. He's one of the inventors, the wearable computer. And he had an early brain computer interface system. I began working in his laboratory, working on basically concerts that you made with your mind. These artistic endeavors with real scientific information from the brain and really started to marry. My art and science approached the world. And from there, I became inspired to take this technology that was letting you literally interact with the world directly with your brain.

[00:07:18] It was a brain computer interface and try to take it to market and create my own business. And that's how myself and my two co-founders, Chris Emeny and Trevor Coleman, created news.

[00:07:29] Fantastic.

[00:07:30] So you have two co-founders that kind of dropped us into the next question that I have, which is the top three tiers of logistics, which is co-founders funding and year you launched.

[00:07:43] So I started working in Steve's lab in 2000 to 2002, 2003. And in those early days, we were creating concerts using this early brain computer interface system. And I began collaborating at that point with Chris. Amy. Chris was Steve's master's student. And he was just the most brilliant engineer you could ever meet. And also had an incredible understanding about humanity and art and the soul. And so as I started to think that this technology could come out of the lab, I got together with him as the CTO, the company. And Trevor Coleman, who is my boyfriend at the Times, best friend. And the three of us founded Muz. But before founding Muse, we spent many years playing around and Trevor's basement and in Steve's laboratory, figuring out what this technology could do. And so probably 2007, we really agreed that, yes, reforming a startup. In 2009, we incorporated and had our first big project, which was at the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics. We the first funding that we had came in twenty twelve I reck. I was the CEO of the company and recognized that we would need to raise funds. We got paid for Olympics projects. We were able to bootstrap for many years. And when we started to raise funding, I went out first to New York that Boston, San Francisco to raise funds and ultimately probably. Or first. Yeah. First round is four million dollars from FEC in New York. And our very first investor was actually Chad Menteng, who was at that point. Google's jolly good fellow. He was the guy who started Google's meditation program. Also search inside yourself. Since then, yes, it was amazing. So since then, we've raised I personally raised eighteen point two million dollars as the CEO of the company from, I guess, 2012 until 2015. In 2015, I stepped down from maternity leave and brought in another CEO. And to date, the company's raised probably around 30 million dollars.

[00:09:54] Wow, that is amazing. What round are you guys on? Moving into Runcie. Brilliant. That's amazing.

[00:10:01] I mean, and it's it's an incredible. I think there are a lot of people that get to a certain position and phase out, particularly with that kind of longevity in a career. You know, you can kind of very few founders anymore kind of staying on and hanging around past that point. I'm wondering, in the beginning when you said you were going to I don't know if it was trade shows or in 2009 or 2012 when you started kind of getting out there. What was the gradual change of the product or was there a story like how did it you know, companies grow with funding traditionally on a lot of different levels. But I'm interested in before we describe the product of it as it is now, the device.

[00:10:44] What was the original product or device like?

[00:10:48] So this is pretty funny. Originally, we started with a technology and a technology that was in search of a solution. So we had this device that let you put an electrode on the back of your head. And by focusing or relaxing, you could change some element, sound, light, etc.. So initially we thought we were going to go after a thought controlled computing. As you shifted your brain state, it would allow you to control the lighting in a room or control, you know, a cursor on a computer screen. And we did a lot of demos and experiences showing people that you could literally shift your brain state and make music or brighten a light. The project that we did at the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics let people in Vancouver control the lights on the and tower Canadian prime buildings and Niagara Falls with their brain from across the country. So we had tens of thousands of people literally interacting with the lighting on these massive icons with their mind. So when we came off the Olympics, we were on a high. And we're like, we can do anything we want. Yeah, we just succeeded at the Olympics. And so we went on to try to thought control everything. We made like a thought controlled toaster and which was really stupid. But it was a fun trick and a thought controlled beer tab, which is awesome to have at Christmas parties, but not really useful in real life. You'd focus on it. It would pour. You would relax or clarity. It would stop pouring. We made all sorts of great thought control, things like, you know, trying to grasp. But what is it that we're really going to do with this? And that's when we sort of had that light bulb moment that it wasn't about letting people control the world outside then. It was about the fact that this technology could actually show you what was going on in your own mind and give you real time feedback on your brain. Because as we were teaching people to focus and relax so that they could, you know, make a light bulb go brighter. What we're really doing was taking these internal states that were intangible and making them tangible and visible, showing you when you're focused, showing you when you're relaxed and doing so, essentially giving you BuYeo or neurofeedback to teach your brain and body to do that more. And that's when we kind of had the recognition that this was going to be most useful for the world as a meditation tool, because meditation is this amazing activity that is so powerful for you. But most people don't really know how to do it, and they're not good at it, per say, because you don't know what's going on in your mind. And there's nobody showing you what's going on in your mind and telling you when you're in the right zone and when you're not. And we have technology that could really do that.

[00:13:22] Well, there is a year when I feel like there was a year, it may have been a couple of years or a day, but where Silicon Valley began leading this or Silicon Valley like areas started leading this charge where they had meditation rooms developed in Google, you know, places like that where it felt like it took meditation out of this Eastern philosophy yogi realm and placed it like squarely into like productivity. Corporate America like this is now like a break room moment. And I'm wondering when your device when it switched over into, like, focusing on the meditation and inward movements and recognition moment and how well that paralleled with you think the industry kind of accepting this new form of meditation being just as important for productivity and things like that in the workplace as a break.

[00:14:14] We were so lucky. We completely followed that curve. So, as I mentioned, our first investor in 2012 was Chad Menteng, the guy who literally made Google's meditation program before 2012 when somebody would ask us what we were building. We felt like we had to say it was a cognitive trainer and are really like our early das. Our early pitches all had pictures of brains with like big muscles on them. Going like this is going to make your mind strong. It'll help you focus. And then people would do the demo. And on rare occasions I would be asked, like, is this meditation? And we'd be like, Do you like meditation? Yes, I meditate. I would be like, it is meditation. Just don't tell anyone. I was like, you know, we whispered background conversation. And then over time, I think for us, what I really kind of count is the tipping point was meditation being on the cover of Time magazine. It was around 2013. There was a photo of a woman on the cover of Time magazine, and Tom got in trouble because it was a very, you know, white woman doing this. But she was sitting there with his eyes closed and the lotus position meditating. And that, to me, really marked the moment when the world took notice. And all of a sudden you had big CEOs meditating and athletes meditating and celebrities talking about it. And then the you know, first the kind of vanguard corporate meditators like Google and then the slow trickle of every company having a meditation program that they'd offer to their staff. And we just, by chance, were entirely in tune with that wave and were able to capitalize on it from 2012 moving forward.

[00:15:53] Yeah, that auspicious. Right.

[00:15:56] I mean, I think it would have done well without. But like I said, when you mentioned into cognitive training and things like that, I think that's esoteric and confusing as well. You know, and it's funny when you have to fight against terms like that just to kind of make sure that you're alleviating communication gaps or bigotries. It's fun to kind of look at those things. So now let's get into the device. Let's talk about its structure. I mean, for everyone who's looking to get a picture of it, obviously, if you jump on w choose News.com, you're going gonna get some of that. But if you can kind of describe for everyone listening right now briefly where it sits, what it looks like and how it outlook as an experience as a user. I come to your house. I sit down. We put this thing on me. What's going on?

[00:16:40] So news is basically like a Fitbit for your brain. So it's a slim little headband that sits on your head and it tracks your brain activity during meditation and gives you Real-Time feedback to know when you're focused and when your mind is wandering. So you slip on the news. It would connect to an app on your phone. You'd plug in your headphones. And then as you meditated, you'd be able to hear the sound of your mind through guiding sounds. And the metaphor we use is your mind is like the weather. So when you're thinking or distracted, you hear it as stormy and as you come to quite focused attention, it quiets the storm. So you're getting Real-Time feedback, letting you know when your mind is wandering and killing you back into the meditation zone and then reinforcing you for staying there, reinforcing you to that state of calm.

[00:17:27] Then after the fact, you get data, charts, graphs, scores, things that show you what your brain was doing moment to moment and really help you track the progress of your practice.

[00:17:37] Yeah, it is exactly like a Fitbit, and it's exciting.

[00:17:40] I mean, it it almost just lends to I don't know if it's the human mind or the American human mind or the entrepreneurial mind, but I already when you pitch it that way or when you describe it, I start thinking, oh, I get into training it more. I have areas I want to tap into immediately. It's like this, you know, nice little green pill that I could, like, do something and take and like focus and train or even like a muscle and focus on that. Do you find that people immediately, the people who congregate towards the idea are those that want to tap into certain resources in their brains most quickly? Or is it just the curiosity?

[00:18:17] A people come from both directions. So, you know, people who are performance oriented obviously love the performance aspect of it that you can measure and through measure improving.

[00:18:26] There are people who are very experienced meditators and they come at this more from the perspective of being a consciousness explore, of understanding the process of the mind, of being able to hone the observation of the mind through a new year on their internal state. So there's lots of different experiences that people get out of it. The app is completely customizable, so you can either use the Real-Time feedback during your experience or you can turn off all the feedback and just after the fact, see what your brain was doing through your own silent meditation. We also started with the brain and now have sensors for the heart, the breath and the body so you can hear the sound of your heart like the beating of a drum and be able to track its increases and decreases and really learn your heart's rhythms. You can find stillness in your body and track your movement. There's breath patterns and now there's also hundreds and hundreds of guided meditations that you can use along with the device to actually track your brain, heart, breath and body during your guided meditations as well.

[00:19:29] And are those developed by ever in in collaboration with your company Muse?

[00:19:34] Yeah. So we have dozens of top teachers from all around the world who build meditations for performance, stress, anxiety. We have a cancer collection that males currently testing for finding morning joy for sleep and on and on.

[00:19:50] Nice. What is so I want to you have a topic that you've addressed in the past and I kind of want you to enumerate on for our audience. What is the the mindset of an entrepreneur like it?

[00:20:03] How does that relate to the collection of the data that you've looked at? That's a fascinating question.

[00:20:10] So the mindset of an entrepreneur is different than the mindset of an average individual. And the mindset of an entrepreneur has to be one that A is willing to handle a whole lot of risk and B, is able to have emotional flexibility because being an entrepreneur, you have so many demands on you. And a lot of those are emotional demands. You know, you're you're at the high of success. You're at the low of your business crashing or at the moment before funding. So you need to be able to navigate all those smoothly. And you are typically not afraid in the same ways that other people are afraid that this goes back to the risk piece. So one of the things that I noticed in myself with the mindset of an entrepreneur was that I really believed I would be able to accomplish what ever I wanted. And, you know, occasionally I'd have thoughts that came and come into my mind, like we all do it, like, oh, that's gonna be too hard. You're not good enough. You know, somebody will judge you for it. But I was very easily able to overcome those thoughts. Was variable easily. Is able to say you're just a thought. That doesn't matter. I'm not going to let that hold me back. And I was able to move out into the world without really being held back by a fear that something wouldn't work without being held back by the thoughts in my own mind. I think that's a that's a fundamental feature of entrepreneurs, because the people who aren't entrepreneurs are the people who have a great idea and then just get overwhelmed by the thought of doing it, get bogged down in the feelings that it will work, get held back and not knowing what to do next.

[00:21:47] Yeah. And it doesn't work. We'll just move with it.

[00:21:49] So how would an entrepreneur. Most quickly utilize Muse? What would be, you think, one of the first steps of using it? Is it just articulating areas that they could tap into through meditation?

[00:22:01] Or what do you think, given, you know, the dialog you just created about the entrepreneurial personality and mindset? How would it be most beneficial or collaborated with using Muse right off the bat?

[00:22:14] Sure. So we have literally hundreds and hundreds of entrepreneurs that use Muse and top CEOs and CEOs will buy them for, you know, their top executives and muse together. So it's it's something that entrepreneurs have really tapped into. So one of the reasons is the idea that the thoughts in your head don't need to govern how you live. So most of us just have the thoughts in our head and we assume that they're supposed to be there, like this isn't gonna work out or I'm not good enough for, you know, this is gonna be too big for me. We just assume that that's the truth, because that's a thought in your head. As an entrepreneur, you learn how to move your mind away from those thoughts and overcome them by taking actions. And that's a big part of what Muse teaches you to do, Muse, cuz you when your thoughts are wandering and then gives you a cue to say, hey, you don't need to follow that thought, you can come back and focus on the thing in front of you.

[00:23:04] You can move your mind away from that and focus instead on something you care about or the task in front of you. So it helps you shift into that mindstate of possibility and lets you move out of your negative thoughts and into a neutral space. And it also significantly increases your productivity because every time your thoughts wander away, that's a little procrastination. That's a micro distraction. With music, get very good at saying like no distraction, back to focus, distraction, back to focus. And then on the emotional piece. What meditation teaches you to do is to ride your emotions without getting bogged down by them. So you might, you know, have just lost a big deal and you might, you know, feel a lot of emotion in your body. And what you learned to do with meditation is to observe that emotion, you know, see the sensations and feel the sensations that it brings in your body without ramping the thought cycle in your head. It's not like, oh, my God, I just lost that deal. Oh, my God, I feel terrible. Whoa, that's really bad. And cycle cycle down with meditation. You. You observe the sensations without getting sucked into the feelings in a way that's going to drag you down with a negative feedback loop between thought, feeling, thought, feeling, thoughts, feeling. So as an entrepreneur, it becomes an incredibly valuable tool to ride through the lows and to let yourself relish the highs.

[00:24:25] And I'm interested about the feedback that it provides through the app and collect collecting that data. What would the average user do with that feedback? Does it help growth? I mean, if you have the cues on obviously there should be some in the moment change and, you know, change of of mental status. But I'm wondering, accumulating that feedback. Do you see how quickly you are able to return to focus and meditation? What what would someone apply the feedback to and what all is collected?

[00:24:57] Sure.

[00:24:58] So when you do a mind meditation, what you're looking at is the times when your mind has wandered in the times and you return and. We celebrate the ability to notice that your mind has wandered and to return back to a place of focused attention and calm.

[00:25:15] We also reinforce and celebrate staying in that calm spot. So it's OK that your mind wanders all of our minds. Do what you want to do. Say like, nope, I'm going to come back to focus. And what you end up seeing over time is a graph that starts looking really jagged. You've got lots of distractions and your mind's bouncing all over the place. And as you progress in your practice, that curve gets smoother and smoother and lower and lower as you're spending more and more time and focus calm. So when you look back to your graphs, you can identify the things that trigger you, the kinds of thoughts that distract you or the sounds that might have been in your environments. You can become very aware of your internal state and you can also really acutely see your progress over time. And you can then also see, you know, OK, this was a great meditation today. What was I doing differently? What what does this mean? How do I reinforced this in the future? Yeah. With the heart meditation you're actually seeing when your heart rate increases and decreases moment by moment and you're learning the things that will get your heart to speed up, things that cause you stress and anxiety and things that get your heart to slow down. And by seeing the patterns of your heart, you learn the kind of relaxation and breathing patterns that get you into optimal HRB and an optimal, beautiful, smooth, sinusoidal rhythm and allow you to relax your body more effectively.

[00:26:33] Right. And when you say that I picture things that I'm more than likely, everyone listening has had glimpses into either the Buddhist monk that was hooked up to electrodes that kept, you know, his heart rate at a certain way, or the deep sea diver who she was, you know, controlling heart rate so that she could dove deeper and things like that. Is that kind of the area that you're headed towards in this kind of lowering of the heart rate or raising it back up? Is it this mind body connection and control?

[00:26:59] Yes. So you learn you learn that mind body connection and that mind body connection is called interception. It's the ability to sensitively understand your internal state. And there's studies that demonstrate that people who have improved interception actually have less stress because you're much more able to sensitively understand where your body is at. Check in on your body.

[00:27:21] And then if you notice stress, tension, increased heart rate, say, hey, I have an exercise that I've learned like a breathing exercise or guided meditation that I know will bring me back to that state of calm. So we start to become master self regulators, noticing where we're at. Having a set of tools to use at that moment, applying them and then shifting into the state that we choose to be in.

[00:27:42] Yeah. I love that. It's perfect master self regulators. You know, that's the call. I think the key right to everything. I'm sure nobody hears that and doesn't think that sounds fantastic. I'm wondering, you you talk a little bit in in some of your the numerous different speaking engagements you've had about how to be empowered in your own mind. And I you know that it's that's a beautiful statement, but it's more a theory than practical, you know, engagement for me. And I'm wondering, since this is kind of tying into that idea of being master over over one's own mind, body relationship, if you can kind of enumerate further on what you feel the empowerment to be empowered in one's own mind looks like in reality, like some of the benefits beyond being able to connect with stress and therefore lower it. You know that the mind body connection. But even further than that, some of the the practicality of what that looks like.

[00:28:41] Sure. So being empowered in your own mind to me means not being at the behest of the crazy thoughts that you consume most of us. Much of the time, you know, most of us just go through our lives with our brain generating a bunch of content in there that often makes us feel unhappy, like we're not good enough. Like things aren't good enough.

[00:29:03] And generally, you know, frustrated, not feeling great. Our brain is constantly telling us that makes us feel things that make us feel a little bit shitty. And frankly, there is no reason for that to be the, you know, existence of your life. There's no reason it needs to be that way. What you learn in meditation is to change your relationship with your thoughts. So rather than being sucked in by them and just listening to all the stuff it tells you and assuming that that's what you need to hear, you actually learn that you can rise above your thoughts. You can create metacognition, you can observe them, and you can make choices about where your brain goes. You can make choices about the contents of your own mind. And when you start to do that, you can now start to orient yourself towards the positive. You can now shut down those negative narratives that weren't serving you. You can now begin to recognize that the narratives that you had about yourself probably aren't true. And you can choose new narratives. It becomes an incredibly. Liberating way to live. And as you start to make better choices about the contents of your own mind, your body follows suit. You start to sort of shut down the negative narratives that keep you small and frustrated. You start opening yourself up to freedom and joy and possibility and the emotional experiences that come with it. And meditation, taking you out of your head and putting you in the present moment really brings an aliveness to your life, to the things that are right in front of you and the things that that are here and real rather than the problems that we worry about that probably will never happen. And so it's it's an incredibly empowered place to be.

[00:30:47] Yeah.

[00:30:48] And when you said, you know, and change the relationship with your own thoughts, a piece of me, I felt like a piece of that was a description or about as rather a piece of a description of happiness, you know, of the human condition to be had to change the relationship with your own thoughts is to change ones that are in disparate nature or causing discomfort. And so to change that back into something, it sounds like a control over one's unhappiness, which is exciting to the human condition.

[00:31:19] You know, across the globe, I think I don't think that's just approaches one particular genre of person, though. I'm sure that there are many that utilize it better than others. But changing the relationship with your own thoughts is is a power that I think a lot of people come to when they start meditation and don't realize that will be one of the benefits.

[00:31:37] You know, it's yeah, it's an extraordinary power. It makes such a difference in your life. You know, most of us are living in self created jails in our own mind, getting caught up in thoughts that truly create our own suffering. And it just doesn't need to be that way.

[00:31:55] Yeah. Who are the clients that that muse has so far reached? You talked about CEOs and people that are really looking at it, as you know. I mean, one of your a jolly good fellow. You know, he's he's brought it up with the Google meditation and stuff like that. But, um, who else do you have industries or populations that have really tapped into being clients? And who do you see it going towards next?

[00:32:18] Sure. So there are literally hundreds of thousands of people that use Muse regularly. And it's from, you know, moms and just awesome everyday people to corporate. So as I mentioned, you know, what CEOs do with their exact we have corporate programs in healthcare. So we have over 200 studies that have been done with Muse, both as a meditation tool and as a clinic. Great. E.g.. So we have a whole hospital systems that have been engaged in testing news. Mayo Clinic has written papers on breast cancer patients awaiting surgery using news. We have thousands of doctors and clinicians that recommend it to their patients. Oh, in an athlete's pro golfers, skaters, footballers, Olympic soccer teams, Olympic swimmers like really quite across the board. So we've we've been we've been very, very lucky that both from just average people who want to learn how to meditate to really top experts. All have been able to find value in the tool.

[00:33:27] Definitely. And I I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't be able to find value in it. Even children, you know, young not children, but adolescents and people who are just learning to have that dialog. I think that there's such an opportunity there with young minds that people don't necessarily look at. And to that end. I'm wondering how young the youngest age group that, you know, that studies with Muse have been done on?

[00:33:52] So Muse used to be able to be used for anybody, but now we are GDPR compliant, which is Europe's privacy standard. So we say Muse is not for anybody under 16. Certainly, I've seen no photos of people using Muse of their very young children, though, according to label. It's not not not not till over 16. There have been studies done using Muse in schools. The Denver school board did one. Kansas State University did a study of grade eight students using news, and they saw a 72 percent decrease in kids being sent to the principal's office after using use in their classroom.

[00:34:28] Yeah, and that's kind of what I was suspecting. You know, I think a lot about some of these different ailments that afflict children who tend to be disturbing in the classroom environment or group settings. And it's more just about the therapies applied to social therapies apply to these children are very much so the feedback that it sounds like news would provide. It's about being in touch with the thoughts and reading relationship with the thoughts, which we just clarified. And so that kind of feedback sounds like it will be instrumental. What is there when someone gets on? How much can they explore on your Web site? Like, what are the price points and how does one go about purchasing it? Where at what phase is all of that in?

[00:35:07] So Muse's in market and has been for since 2014. We now have. So we have two devices, Muse two, which gives you real time feedback on your heart, breath, body and brain during meditation. And then we have a new device that we just launched, which is Muse s one of the things that we noticed as people were using Muse before going to bed to help them sleep. And so we now built this beautiful purpose-built device that does all the same things as Muse two. And it also gives you guided meditations and Real-Time feedback in a way that's designed to help you fall asleep faster. So it's a very soft, comfortable band that you were in bed to help you fall asleep. And then we're building more and more sleep features that are going to be released over the next year. So Muse 2, is somewhere around two hundred and fifty bucks. And Muse S is somewhere around 350.

[00:35:59] Nice. So not going to break the bank. You know, I mean, not inexpensive. But for the feedback it's providing and given, can you use one device, I'm assuming for different family members or definitely individuals or does everyone. OK. So you can change application.

[00:36:15] Yes. So we typically see, you know, device. Mom brings the device home, dad starts using it. Kids start meditating. Now you have the whole family using the one device together.

[00:36:24] Absolutely. That's so exciting. I'm wondering to that. And given that you just came out with muse s. What goals does Muse have on the horizon between the next one to three years? And has there been any conversation of application between the global dialog about the pandemic and Muse, or has that kind of been something that it's just obviously addressing within the functionality of the device? Or has the company come out and kind of looked towards efforts as to have a dialog with that?

[00:36:51] Oh, we're definitely dialoging with it. So since the start of the pandemic, we've obviously seen a massive increase in Muse usage, both people purchasing new devices, buying them as gifts, and people who had Muse's really starting to use them very, very regularly. And so we're really looking to how we can build more support and content to help support pandemic specifically. We have a collection of actually free content available to anyone called our S.O.S. Com collection with guided meditations for dealing with uncertainty, working at home, cetera.

[00:37:28] And then we also have monthly challenges that we run with both users and nonusers where you can be guided through a week of support on a particular topic focused around coalbed. So it might be finding peace working from home. Kofman the mind and uncertain times, etc..

[00:37:48] That's fascinating.

[00:37:49] That's a great idea to a monthly challenge, you know, focused around things that are particularly found within it. That's an interesting take on it. I think that a lot of people have tried to get there but haven't quite gotten there with a lot of their business endeavors. Monthly challenges are interesting. And are there any other goals for with the company has that is aside from the covered conversation? Are you guys going to come out with new models? What areas are you reaching further into? I feel like and this might be incredibly naive, but like diet and certain things that are affecting, you know, that the greater health and relationships certainly would be kind of this trickle down effect that would happen when being in conversation with one's own thoughts and their thought relationship. But has there been any movement towards, like diet and exercise or using it, showing people the utility of using it and other major areas of their life?

[00:38:39] So on our podcast that I co-host with Patricia Karpas called Untangle, we approach questions like diet, relationships, etc. every single week with guests in those areas. So, you know, we try. Give you more information around how the brain and the mind work and how to kind of optimize them in relationship to all these topics. And then in our guided content, we also have content specific for different areas, performance, work from home. We've a mindful eating collection. We have lots of relationship collections. So we also try and the guidance to give you new insights, new tools to help with specific areas of your life. And then the thing that we're really diving into now is sleep, because people don't realize how fundamental sleep is and was.

[00:39:28] Sleep has really gotten disrupted. Also, as an entrepreneur, sleep gets disrupted as well because you sit there as you're falling asleep and you can't help but think about all of the problems of the day and the problems of tomorrow and that poor sleep and poor sleep hygiene and poor ability to fall asleep actually depresses your immune system and decreases your emotional self-regulation and cognitive function the next day.

[00:39:51] So for us, we're really looking at how we kind of help people optimize this 24 hour cycle, how you can fall asleep more effectively, stay asleep longer, have more restful sleep, and then be more cognitively and emotionally capable the next day. Do your meditation, you know, enhance them further, sleep well at night and feed forward. Absolutely.

[00:40:13] And it's key. I think Muz asks coming out sounds perfect. I mean, the populations that need sleep most are the ones that always receive it less. It's new parenting entrepreneurs, people making very heavy handed decisions. There was in 2005 a report came out that said the average American president and all of our history got about four hours a night.

[00:40:33] And it was like, no, I need them to get so much more than that. They've got very hands on the button.

[00:40:39] You know, it's a it was just daunting. These. The more important the position, the less sleep. And it was and it was a reverse dialog. It was in conversation to some of the most prolific people that they had discovered in the arts were these people that got massive amounts of sleep. Some of these founders that were coming out saying, I get like nine hours a night and I can't believe anybody wouldn't. And these were the people that were changing the world at the time. And it was this kind of dialog, a back and forth. The article was. But I think it's it's so crucial. Young parents, people like that, Warriors' in all places, you know, don't leave. You have to be the founder of a billion dollar company to be a wildly important individual. And those people in those high stress, high stakes environment are usually not getting sleep. And so I think that feedback is crucial. And I'm glad you brought up your podcast, because I'm wondering, I haven't had the opportunity to dove in and explore more. And so for everyone listening, join me in that endeavor. It's called Untangle. And I really want to climb into a little bit about that experience, how long it's been running. And also, do you bring users of Muse on to have like an actual conversation with a user?

[00:41:48] So the podcast actually started with Patricia Karpas. It was a podcast that she had started building. And when she joined our company as the head of content, I joined as the co-host. And we love doing it because we get to speak to experts, neuroscientists, meditators, top athletes, top artists and unpack the practices in their life that allow them to be effective. And my particular passion is talking to neuroscientists and through with them, unpacking how the brain works and then how we can use that knowledge and understanding the brain to be able to optimize our behavior and our functioning. It turns out that a fair number of the people I interview are users. You know, my my colleagues and peers and in neuroscience and in arts or athletics, they tend to actually also use music. And often I don't even know that.

[00:42:39] I interviewed B.J. Fogger, a top behaviorist, and when he got on the music, oh, my God, you make me use I'm like, oh, my God, you know that I made music crazy. And Dr. Stan Kotkin, he's a top relationship therapist. He was like, I love you. I'm like, oh, my God, you know what news is like? Yes, I use it every day. So it it ends up being kind of serendipitous and typically slightly embarrassing moment for me. I'm sitting here like, what am I supposed to wonder? But it's lovely.

[00:43:06] Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's exciting. I'm glad to know that. And I'm glad to know that you guys kind of interview people who you don't know have used it as well just to garner the information around it without this kind of marketing standpoint. And I look forward to getting on and I look forward to purchasing it because I'm sold. I'm all in. And I practice my station and I have for 10 years based on my spiritual following. So I I'm wholeheartedly looking to jump into this. I think it's important for people to understand that regardless of what you practice and how you do, you can always change your relationship with meditation. You know, there have been people who've meditated for 50 years that are constantly changing their relationship with it. And this device sounds like it could do that and should do that as well. I'm wondering if you can if you can answer our final question on this series is always one of my favorites and it's one that people usually think that they won't be able to answer.

[00:44:01] Perhaps, given that your life has been dedicated to research and and proffering up solutions, you'll be able to more easily than one often thinks. But if someone approached you tomorrow and it's important, we didn't get into it today. But you also have a lot of dialog about women in business. And I do want to ciAriele back around one day and pepper you with that, because that's the platform that we run a lot of our series off. Patricia Kathleen, podcasts. But if you were approached tomorrow by a woman or a female identified a non binary individual, essentially anyone other than a white CIS gendered man. And the person said, listen, I started my career off in this wonderful science and I've I've done a peripheral amount of work there. And I'm thinking about launching this new device, this tech device feedback company. So something remarkably similar, perhaps not identical to what you've done. But she was headed. They were headed that way. And they said, can you give me your top three pieces of advice? What would those top three pieces be?

[00:45:02] Knowing what you know now, sure, that's easy.

[00:45:06] So number one is you don't need to know everything. So I think as a founder or an entrepreneur, it can feel daunting when you start a business because you feel like, OK, well, I need to understand finance. I need in the case of my business, manufacturing, engineering, technology, neuroscience are logistics. There were so many pieces to this puzzle and I really only understood one piece. Got educated and learned myself several of those pieces like fundraising and being the CEO of a company, having ever worked in one myself. And then I was able to attract and hire individuals who knew how to do everything else.

[00:45:44] Experts in their own domain who understood manufacturing in China and logistics and customer care and whatever the role was. So tip number one is you really don't need to know everything. And frankly, there's very few things you do need to know because you can bring on the people that matter to do the job. Yeah. Number two is do not let your own thoughts of not being good enough or not accomplishing enough. Hold you back. We are all amazing capable creatures, but we are held back by the stories in our own mind. You know, the stories that say, oh, you know, we shouldn't take the risk because or people will think this of us or what if it just doesn't work out? And so it's normal for those thoughts to be there. But the person who becomes a successful entrepreneur is the person who is overall to able to overcome those thoughts, who is not held back by them, the person who takes the step and moves forward despite the thoughts and fears in their mind and body. And number three is lead with inspiration. So you may not know most of the things that you need to know to do this. Totally fine. But if you have an inspiring vision and you're able to articulate it and that inspiring vision is going to make the world better in some way, people will want to come along and join you and follow you and work with you and work for you and bring this vision to life together. So the most successful entrepreneurs are those that are able to see a vision that the world needs, that people agree is going to be good for the world and inspire people to come along with them.

[00:47:23] Nice. I love that. So I have. Don't. No one.

[00:47:29] You don't need to know everything. Number two, do not like negative thoughts. Hold you back. And number three, let lead with inspiration and let your vision inspire your audience. And I have to say that, as you said, those things as as silly or interesting as it sounds, I feel like if your device muse could speak, it would say that's exactly what it does. I think so. Yeah. I think that you've you've got the idea in tune and chip with what your craft and your knowledge have all developed in this embodiment of the device. And we are out of time today. But I really want to say I appreciate you taking the time.

[00:48:09] I know everyone is at once available and incredibly busy, you know, during this time of stay at home. And so I want to say thank you so much for all of your knowledge and time today.

[00:48:21] Thank you for the opportunity to share it. Much appreciated.

[00:48:24] Absolutely. And for those of you listening, we've been speaking with Ariel Garten. She's the founder of Muse. You can located at W w w dot Tewes Muse dot com.

[00:48:36] And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I chat with Leisse Wilcox. Leisse is a transformational mindset + success coach who helps high-potential women courageously become the vision of themselves they can’t stop dreaming about. A passionate speaker, dynamic thought leader, author, NLP practitioner, top podcast host, cancer survivor, mom of three, and taco enthusiast, her entire experience has been about coming home to her truest self and to call herself “beloved,” knowing intimately that changing the world starts by making the changes we want to see within ourselves, first.

Key points addressed were

Leisse’s podcast titled “To Call Myself Beloved” and how it explores and speaks to some of Leisse’s core tenants she has based her Coaching, advising, and speakership career out of
We also explored her book which was launched hours ago titled “To call myself beloved: A Story of Hope, Healing, and Coming Home” and how it not only unpacks what Leisse terms difficult conversations but also provides action items and real life utility for solving unhealthy and unhappy aspects of life.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with transformational mindset and success coach and author Leisse Wilcox. Key Points addressed where Leisse's podcast titled To Call Myself Beloved and how it explores and speaks to some of Leisse's core tenants as she has based her coaching, advising, and speakership career roles out of. We also explored her book, which was launched hours ago, titled To Call Myself Beloved. A Story of Hope, Healing and Coming Home and how it not only unpacks what Leisse's term terms as difficult conversations, but also provides action items and real life utility for solving unhealthy and unhappy aspects of one's life. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Leisse Wilcox.

[00:00:48] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM. You can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:45] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I elated to be sitting down with Leisse Wilcox. Leisse is a transformational mindset and success coach. And a recent author, you can find out more about all of her services, as well as her book on her website. LeisseWillcocks dot com. That is leissewilcox.com. Welcome, Leisse.

[00:02:09] What a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

[00:02:11] Absolutely. I'm so excited to climb through. I'm elated for everyone listening. Leisse's book just dropped today and I can I'm just cannot get enough of it.

[00:02:21] I can't tell you how excited I am to be this kind of baptismal moment of one of her first few podcasts to kind of climb through all of it. And I will do just that with you before I get to asking her questions. I will tell everyone who might be new to the podcast. I will read a quick bio on this. But before I do that, let me give you a quick roadmap for today's podcast, inquiry and line of trajectory in which that will follow. We'll first look at unpacking Leisse's story. So I'll ask her about her academic, professional and personal history. It pretends particularly close to her career at this point. And then we'll look at unpacking Leisse's career right now. We'll look at her coaching. I want to get into her podcast and then also, of course, her most recent book titled To Call Myself Beloved A Story of Hope, Healing and Coming Home. Her podcast, also under the same vein, is titled To Call Myself Beloved. And we will call kind of climate, too. We'll get first to all the logistics of those endeavors. So the who, what, when, where, why? And then we'll climb into some of the more specifics about the ethos and the philosophy. So we'll cover both aspects of that spectrum. And then we'll turn to as all of the podcast in this particular series, we'll turn to unpacking goals that list has for the next one to three years for herself. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she has for those of you who are looking to kind of garner some of her wisdom and perhaps emulate some of her career success. So before I question her, I start peppering her with questions, rather a quick bio. As promised, onlies Leisse Wilcox is a transformational mindset and success coach who helps high potential women courageously become the vision of themselves. They can't stop dreaming about a passionate speaker, dynamic thought leader, author and LP practitioner, top podcast host, cancer survivor, mom of three and taco enthusiast. Her entire experience has been about coming home to her true self and to call herself beloved, knowing intimately that changing the world starts by making the changes we want to see within ourselves.

[00:04:26] First, an expert featured on Simple Habit and an entrepreneurial advisor with Startup Canada. Leisse's intention is to guide people to come home to themselves, giving them permission to live authentically. Leisse's first book, To Call Myself Beloved, is available now, and you can watch her on season two of Amazon Prime's The Social Movement. So please, I can't wait to unpack everything. As I said, I am become positively giddy with new authors and particularly like I don't think I've ever had a guest on launch that day and I'm into your book.

[00:04:59] But before we get to all of that, I was hoping you can draw us a narrative however you see fit of your personal background. You know, briefly how your childhood spilled into adulthood, leading to you, to the endeavors that we will speak about today.

[00:05:14] Absolutely. That was an amazing intro, and I got to tell you, I was sweating a little because I was like, well, we are going to get very real here.

[00:05:20] And also, how much time do I have?

[00:05:22] This is like a major, major suitcase or series of suitcases that we're going to unpack. You know, my story that has informed that has informed my present. Absolutely. Without dictating my future. If I had a I had a really difficult childhood, as so many of us do. My mom left very, very early on and for a while it was just my dad and I. Which was amazing. And a few years later, he reconnected with somebody like our high school sweetheart and they kind of partnered up together and it felt like my dad died and it was like Cinderella story kind of living out in my real life with this new stepmother there who openly did not want me in her life. They had two more kids together. I was such an inconvenience to her life and her lifestyle that I really felt like I had to minimize my entire existence. And that might not sound like a big deal if I wasn't physically abused. And I was like, OK, right. I also wasn't loved. And she shut everybody out of our lives who did love me. So she created this weird dynamic, which is classic and narcissistic abuse that she isolated me. So I had nobody else to turn to for any help. And she the way that the environment she created, I suppose, was one that made me question my own sanity. And so it was just this really, really uncomfortable place where I learned that I wasn't a person of value and if I wanted to get the love I so desperately needed. We also desperately need, especially as kids. I was gonna have to radically change my personality. And so I learned how to put on all these masks and learn how to please other people. And as I say, like minimize my own existence and stop listening to my own intuition and only listen to what I thought other people would expect from me. Well, guess what? That's not a great way to live your life. It was survival mode for sure. And what that survival mode taught me as I grew up was that that's how we find love. We develop these patterns of attachment that when I would meet somebody who is like, OK, here's a person for whom I have to fight for their love. I have to prove myself. I have to be who I am not. Oh, this is familiar.

[00:07:31] This is what a healthy relationship dynamic looks like.

[00:07:33] So, you know, fast forward a few years. I got into a marriage and that just absolutely was so included by his family. And I absolutely felt like I was home for the first time. But the marriage itself, even through beautiful vacations and three wonderful children together and this picture perfect dream life, we had created you so lonely, it was so lonely inside. And one day I had this genuine wake up moment of, you know, we're our seven bedroom house. We're in this beautiful, tiny little town with beltless property, wonderful family around us. And I remember lying on the floor of my little girls, looking at my good looking husband in the kitchen and making coffee at our, like, Karara career, a marble bar. And I had this sinking feeling of like. If this isn't enough for me, what the hell is wrong with me? I had this moment of intuition. Hi yourself. God universe what everyone is. I heard this little voice and that little guiding voice was saying, none of this is enough for you because you are not enough for you. And in that moment, it really did feel like I woke up and I knew at that point that I had some painful decisions to make and some painful conversations to have. And ultimately, I ended the marriage right. I called time of death on the merits of this kind of already dead and started Life 2.0 in a brand new direction.

[00:09:11] That's amazing. I mean, I can't recall.

[00:09:14] You know, I've heard a lot of particularly for this series over the past three years, I've spoken to a lot of women and women, identified individuals, non binary individuals included in that. And I none of them have come to their point.

[00:09:27] And perhaps it's just not spoken about as much because it feels almost privileged. But this idea that, you know, you come to this ultimate success, you know, you had the money, the family, the the mate, all of it. And to realize at that point to be brave enough to call, to just say it's not it's not working on me is kind of amazing. I'm wondering first steps when you headed down because your book is about, you know, the lessons from this journey. Right. As you said yourself, the difficult conversations and this began, it sounds like this is the one of the first difficult conversations you posture to yourself in order to come to all of these realizations. And I'm wondering, did you first have a mentor? Where was the first place you looked to guide yourself? Because your book is about guidance and helping other people have these conversations. Who guided you?

[00:10:24] Google, which is why I wrote the book.

[00:10:31] You know, in fairness, I had like a new friendship at the time with a woman who was very spiritual and kind of one of those other worldly people. I mean, you live in California.

[00:10:41] Maybe you just grew up with these people. I didn't grow up with these people. And I bear in my life now, like, I totally get it now.

[00:10:46] But at the time, she was the first person who really started talking to me about there being another way or about, you know, increasing my faith in the process and trusting what was unfolding. And she's like the first person to ever use those words with me. And I remember I I had a lot of conversations with her which helped me feel like I wasn't crazy.

[00:11:05] I have an incredible art. I have an incredible extended family. But I have one aunt who is such a rock. And when I got through all the Google searches, like, what will happen if I stay? What'll happen if I go? How do I know it's time for divorce?

[00:11:17] Like, what is marriage supposed to feel like and other assorted Google phrases?

[00:11:22] You know, I phoned my aunt and I was like, I think I know what I have to do and I need to know if you will support me in this. And I don't know why I chose to have that conversation with her. I don't know why that was important for me to do. But, oh, man, am I ever glad that I did. Because it it kind of it kind of forged a contract. To be honest. So it kind of forged this emotional contract that I knew I had her support as my person to go and talk to. What's interesting is that, you know, you mentioned that this is the pain that we don't talk about because it sounds privileged and absolutely like you're familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs. When you have your physiological needs met, you have your physical needs met, your needs for safety and security. You have all those needs met. You're still having a human experience. And this is what's so fascinating to me is that pain is relative. So absolutely, you can call it a privilege because there is a lot of privilege in there. But we're still having a human experience and that human experience is rooted in our emotional health and our feelings. And I work with so many women who are like overachievers. Right. We're all high achievers. And we've learned through our lives that you do achieve, do achieve, do achieve. And if you want to achieve more than you do more. And suddenly so many women get to this point where they're like. Oh, I did everything right. I climbed all the right ladders and made all the right moves and made all the right connections. I have this list in front of me of all the things I was supposed to do and I checked us. So how can I feel like shit? And then that's wrapped in shame because you're like, well, I obviously can't talk about this because who am I to complain? Like, look at my life. And what we're not looking at is like, Sure. Look at the outside of my legs. Look at the outset of my world. But what does my inner world look like? And for me, it was like overriding that shame or feeling the shame and healing through it to allow myself permission to be like, listen, you do have a loving and supportive in-law family. You do have you know what? At that time, felt like a really huge group of friends and support. And you're not happy. And you've been to therapy and you read the books and not the podcast. The time that, you know, you you've taken all the steps to heal this. And, you know, I remember having a notebook full of things that we had tried to like, quote unquote, make marriage work. And Amber, getting to the final page in the notebook and being like, oh, shit, I know what has to happen. And what has to happen is that either he has to radically change his personality or I have to radically change mine.

[00:13:57] And like I had this visceral reaction as somebody who had had to change her entire personality for the first 30 years of her life.

[00:14:05] I was like, you know what? I think I'm done. I think I'm going to have this really, really painful conversation and make a decision that is, for the first time in my life, rooted in what honors my needs. And I'm going to act in a way that is actually advocating for who I am and what I need. And that was the beginning of this. Like, I get shivers still talking about it. It was the beginning of this, like, wild trajectory of tapping into more of that. Because no matter how difficult that was, once you rang the bell. You can't hear it. Right. And as a result, my piece is the most valuable thing I own. And I paid dearly for it. And I still wouldn't change that for the world.

[00:14:53] No, it's life shattering. And I think anyone who hasn't felt it are the only population that wouldn't get that. He who has gone through a life, regardless of, you know, judgment from the outside, which I like to abstain from altogether, but to to come out in adulthood to a sense of self knowing and peace and compassion wrapped within that for the self, you know, a lot of times in this world, particularly covered pandemic talk. People get into compassion, which I love. I want to help spread the word. But it begins with compassion for the self, you know, and a self awareness that, like you said, you know, once you've tapped into it, it leads onto more of that. And that actually feeds your society more than anything I think ever would. But it's so it's so powerful to hear you talk about that. I do want to start climbing to you. So I first want to look at the podcast because the book launched just today. And I want to kind of unpack the book after we've talked a little bit about the podcast. And I want to start off with some of the nuts and bolts of it. So when was it launched? I have down I saw the last up with the first episode is last August. I'm not sure if that's accurate. So if it was launched a year ago, what the impetus was for it. Did you take any funding or capital? How did you get going with it? Did you have a guest host? Did you have an idea as to how many you were going to release? How did you know about any or end or all of it? Or did it just all come to fruition naturally?

[00:16:18] You are not going to like the answer I'm going to give you because I Googled it once again and I Googled it, though very honestly.

[00:16:24] I remember August sounds about right, but I can't quite remember. I there's somebody who's, you know, used to be actively in my life is now kind of on the periphery of my life. But I have a lot of respect for her. And there've been so many moments in my life where she's such a boss and she's just kind of popped in and be like, oh, you should start a blog. And I'm like, OK, so I write a blog. And then she'll be like, you know, people aren't reading long form content anymore. Usually start an Instagram account. So I like durin Instagram into a microblog. And she popped up one day. She's like, you need a podcast like you, you need a podcast, period. And I was like, I don't want I don't want to do this. I don't have a podcast. What would that be like? And fast forward a little bit, which we can unpack this, too, because it's the third major cataclysmic event of my life, which is also the third in the book. I got a breast cancer diagnosis at age 36 and I had like a week before my 37 birthday or something like that. And it was during chemotherapy that I a decided, well, I have some time.

[00:17:28] And now I guess I can to write a book proposal up. I'm wondering how I'm going to fit that into my schedule.

[00:17:34] And I also use that that time, four months of chemo to research. I literally did. Google had. Casts. I just like went through a checklist and I follow that I ordered a podcast kit from Amazon. People are always shocked to hear this, but I read in a podcast kit, you know, I ended up meeting somebody locally who's a musician, really talented. And I was like, oh.

[00:17:56] You literally sound like John Mayer when you play guitar. Would you would you write a song for me? Europium song for me.

[00:18:03] And he does on my audio. And I chose to do a solo show because the effects of the work we're talking about, I have a in a former life, I have a background in Montessori education. I am naturally an educator. So for me, you can see that went from the classroom to a parenting column to a blog, to Instagram, to a podcast, to a blog. And the podcast effectively is my blog. So I don't have a co-host. It's just me. It's a solo show. I've had one guest on to one episode when I did like Life Coaching Session. But otherwise it's me because I feel like I have a pretty unique standpoint on emotional health and how to genuinely feel your feelings and how feeling your feelings at their core is what changes the manifestations of all the shit you don't want in your life. You know, we experience something. I really. Oh, can you believe this happen? And I was like, yes, let's trace that back to what is actually happening internally. Heal that and then blammo that so naturally starts to disappear.

[00:19:08] So basically, I'm so arrogant that I'm like, what I have to say is so interesting. I'm just going to deliver this product. In fact, it was a hard fought for.

[00:19:18] I don't think it's arrogance when you've gone through the kind of battles that you fought for. Those are badges, you know. And to think that other people wouldn't glean information from them, I think is largely what's wrong with women across the world. And there's nothing wrong with women across the world. Let me clarify and quantify that's put on my tombstone. What I mean is there are a lot of unification factors that I find with oppressed populations. And when I look at women, I've been studying women, female identified, non binary individuals for the better part of 20 years. And throughout feminist lenses and all different kinds. And the truth is, is that one of the narratives in the threads that is in common with all of us is that even those of us that become successful not speak about those stories, they're not important enough and they're not applicable enough. And so I think to fly in the face of that is so very, very important. But there's still even a small dialog with you. You know, as a joke saying, you know, and I'm arrogant enough, like, no, it should be an end. Women need we need to hear each other's stories. You know, the whole point of this particular podcast for any of you that haven't listened is everyone who says there's two people in this world, ones that say, oh, my God, they're so fantastic. I can't believe you're doing that. And then the others say, what is it for? What are you doing? And it's just the difference of people that understand women. Women identified Banan by individuals. We need to hear each other's stories. It's been completely isolated and cut out of rhetoric from marketing to cinema for so long. We don't understand how deprived our own personal narrative is, not gleaning the stories of any other people like us. And so I love that you've done that. And I. I mean, it sounds so stressful for me. And I love the idea that you've described it as arrogant because the concept of taking your own podcast, which is I love your narrative because it is this I'm the most recent one for anyone who hasn't. Listen, jump on really quickly because she narrates one of the chapters in her books that we'll talk about. But it's you have these moments you have to really design and then get into these specific you've got lessons that you're delivering, you know, and you're coming out with these and they're all between 20 and 40 minutes. And that's a lot of work. It's a lot of dialog. It's a lot of choreography, especially when you need it to be fluid. And so I have to commend you on that level. And to that end, I want to talk about you. You release, give or take, it looks like once every two weeks. And I wanted to talk to you about what made you decide that. And I have to say, before we get into that, as a side note, as a total nerd who loves them on a story program, you Googling things is so much right. The self fed that is Monta or any of you out there. I have four children who all went through the Montessori school and they all like it's a very self led education model. So the fact that everything in you, everything in your life has been this self led model, it does not strike me as odd at all that you're Moniz's.

[00:22:12] But I want to climb into. What? Who.

[00:22:15] How did you decide for your own. Was it a conversation with your personal schedule? Like once every two weeks you release. And how do you develop the choreography of what you're going to talk about? How do you curate that?

[00:22:26] So I am currently a solo printer. Right. Like I'm the queen. I run the show. I have three little girls. For the last entirety of their lives, except the last five months, I have had them in my custody. Eighty percent of the time. With like minimal financial support. So the stuff that I have done in four and a half years with three kids in tow. Frankly, I am clapping for myself because it really is remarkable. And the. That's from a brand. You know, when you're an entrepreneur, you wear so many different caps. Right. Like you were the genius cap where you really shine. Then you got to put on like the CFO cap, which is not as much of a strength area strength for me. And then I've got a strategy hat. And so strategically, I'm also very Dutch and I'm very much a Taurus. So when I put on that strategy cap, it is like is rooted in the earth. And that root tells me what is the intention behind what you're doing? What will this lead you to or what will it return? I'm really very spiritual. So what it leads me to. There are so many options in front of me. Most of those options are. Who knows? But I trust my gut to go for the podcast. I only do it once every two weeks because it is very difficult to turn a profit and to convert with a podcast. I think. And so I have to balance out. And I've looked at sponsorships and like I don't want to do sponsorships online. That, frankly, it seems like it's going to add an additional layer of effort on my behalf. And frankly, I look at what is the content? What what is the intention? Why am I creating this? Who am I serving? What am I doing? And how does it align with my value? That's my feel today. I use online literally every decision of my life, especially in my business. And so for the podcast, I believe it's very important to have the podcast as one of the moving pieces of my business. But there's only so much energy I can give it. If somebody else was footing the bill or if they was really converting a lot of clients back to private clients, it would absolutely be at least once a week, if not more. But right now, it's like I really want to have it, but I'm also keeping my eye on it to make sure what I'm doing is actually worth my time.

[00:24:41] Yeah, and those are really good points. I have to say, I get asked to speak a lot about developing podcasts because I've done so many that I know four years ago that I was a little podcast maven. But and what I quickly surmised and kind of speak to and advise you on is everything that you've spoken of. I think that the most important thing is consistency, tone and rhetoric and authenticity as well as like really having a point. And yours are so polished, like, you know, you kind of just quickly prattled off. But you have this original sound music, you know, to your podcasts and then and these sound quality of them, like everything sounds so amazing. And I think that people need to realize that it's still the Wild West. So I realize that I'm speaking to rules I've made up for my own kingdom. But within that, as far as podcasts go, I think consistency and tone. You know, you can have a change in the podcast, but to go from one week to one kind. And then for another, which another is very jarring. And then there's this idea that, you know, people can just not release or stop or do whatever you some random Thursday. And that seems a little immature as well. You know, and just holding yourself accountable, sponsorship, like you mentioned, is another big one. I myself am not attached to it. But funding is not an issue for me because the majority of my projects are self-funded.

[00:26:00] But as you've mentioned, a lot of people think that it's going to be this cash making machine and sponsorship in partnership or a ton of work. They frequently align you with a brand that may or may not be in sync with your brand.

[00:26:11] There's just a lot of things that decimates my brand. I'm so authentic that if I start talking about paper towels, my brand is dead and like the me-ness of me is dead.

[00:26:24] Yeah. And I like your Yankee. I like that whole concept. I was just seems that Yankee know how and you're in Canada, but either concept of ingenuity and kind of like out of the box off Amazon. And then I met a friend and they wrote the music and that that's really what you can do with podcasting. And I encourage people to get on and listened to Leisses because it is a sense of professionalism that is astounding that you did. I for sure assumed that your publicist with your book had hooked you up with an entire crew. So it's hats off to you. It sounds amazing and I love it. I want to turn now to unpacking and to call myself beloved. A story of hope, healing and coming home. The book it just launched today and everyone who has listened to me before knows that I'm an absolute bookworm. But I haven't read it as it came out today. And I am excited. Excited because this will be what I call an airplane conversation. So if I just met you on an airplane and we and I had you quarantined for an hour and a half next to me, I would be able to ask you all of these questions, hopefully without you getting away or putting on your headphones.

[00:27:21] I just, like, leaned closer because I'm so excited about this.

[00:27:27] Oh, I love it because I don't know anything about it. And so this is very off the cuff, which is my favorite kind of conversation. I'd love research, but I do far too much of it. OK. So I first want to talk about this. My introduction to the book was through whatever we could grab Off-line. And I want to read a quick line that I found to myself that kind of explain to me what the book was about and you can tell me if it's correct or not. So it says, To call myself beloved is informed by lessons learned through navigating the most cataclysmic events of woman's of one woman's life and realizing throughout each one that I am still OK. So we've kind of climbed through some of that. You know what you said earlier and things like that. But that for me, kind of gave me the impetus of what I expected the book to be about. I then listened to the most recent podcast, which is about one chapter of that, and it's called The Myth of Competition. And this actually speaks to a great deal of my heart. And I think a lot of people that listen to this podcast series will identify with it. So I first want you to hear what I would like to hear from you. Before we unpack, I want to talk about the myth of competition and all of the other chapters. But when you were writing it, did you keep your audience in mind or did you just read it for yourself? Because you do have this kind of self-serving platform, which is a plausible. But I want to know if you did keep your audience in mind, who was that audience? And as you were composing it, how did how were you speaking to them? How did it help transform her build the book?

[00:28:54] Well, until very recently, I used to introduce myself as a professional human and real ethical because frankly, that's what I am. My dream has always been to get paid to be me again. I spent so much of my life, arguably the first half of my life denying who I was and proving who I was and hiding who I was.

[00:29:12] That now I'm like, Oh, no. Here I am. It took so much.

[00:29:16] I'm so happy to be this person. I love this person so much. Let me share that. And let me see if what kind of opportunities arise. And the cool thing is, lots of opportunities have arisen from that place of genuine authenticity. So, yes, the book. I absolutely kept my audience in mind because I am also my ideal client. I'm very passionate about the fact that just like we said, if I'm having this feeling and I'm really struggling and I can't even Google the answer, I can't figure it out.

[00:29:49] Oh, man. If I can't figure it out, there about to be thousands, if not tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of other women who are struggling this that for some reason don't have the right genetic makeup that compels them to figure it out. So all this stuff I figured out, I went back to school for coaching. I read every book. I did all the things. I saw so many therapists. I ended up creating this incredible healing modality for myself that I started to use of my clients. And I watched how it was affecting my clients lives in this earth. Shatteringly simple way. You know, all of my clients this week, for example, I got on the phone with them and they're like, I am not doing well. It has not been a good week by the end of the conversation. Fifty seven minutes later, they're like, oh, my God, this is a dramatic difference. I feel so much better. I thought I felt stuck. But actually what I see now from talking to you is that I'm not so trapped. I have so many options. So I am my ideal client because those are all pain points that I, I had so close to me. So when I was writing it, it was really important to me, too. Like when it says like somehow I wrote about like, it's just one woman's life. I'm just a woman. Like, I'm just a person living a life as a human on this planet. And I was an episode on my block that's got to be where the female empowerment brand, because when you start to scratch the surface on the female empowerment brand, like you are not going to like what you find in so many that people who are championing themselves as just regular people.

[00:31:23] Are not. So let's take a look there. They're not just regular people, and I feel like I just kind of a regular person living a life.

[00:31:30] And so, again, to write from that place of wealth, here are the three things that ultimately tried to define my life childhood abuse, a really painful divorce, and then this experience with cancer that the treatment for which included chemo, full hair loss and a radical mastectomy. If I remove both of my breasts and what I learned through each of those things was how to heal and not only how to heal from trauma and pain, but how to come home to. So when you read in the space of like, all you have to do is self lollypops. Just love yourself. Just take care of yourself. Just start to prioritize. I'll just set boundaries. My personality is like, yeah, but how? Like tell me how to do that. Nobody is telling me how to do that. They're just creating a listicle. Is that gets great MCO ratings. And so suddenly I was like, well fuck it, I'm going to write this manual on how to do this. So the book is divided and I would call a book like a self love manifesto because it's almost 400 pages and it's literally a compendium of everything and every healing modality, mindset, HAAKE technique that I learned about spotted figures. And it's divided into these three sections, understanding where you've come from, making peace with where you are and then healing forward. And each section opens with one personal essay. So, like, here's a glimpse of what my childhood was actually like. People think because I had such like an engaged Instagram audience, that I must be like very extroverted and very public. I'm insanely private, like I'm an insanely efforts. And so this is a big deal to them actually sharing stories of what it was like in childhood. And then, you know, the second part opens with what does divorce actually feel like? Because if you want to polarize a room real quick, just ask for people's opinions on marriage and divorce, and you will find you'll find basically it's always the woman's fault.

[00:33:22] There a lot of things in the marriage. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that was it was just so it was so intense.

[00:33:28] Divorce was literally the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. And that includes cancer. It was way harder than cancer. And then just as I was building momentum and doing all the right things and navigating that divorce, a lot of grace and kindness and compassion. I got breast cancer, like I got breast cancer the day my ex-husband got married and I was like I was so ready to give up. I was ready. I was like, I'm out. My life is a Kafka novel. And I've read it. And I don't like how it ends. I'm not gonna be this beetle trapped in my back because that's stupid. I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I came home from one of my appointments. There are many, many, many appointments at the very beginning of cancer. And I was so young and no family history that the treatment was going to be super aggressive. So I came home from one of my appointments. I hadn't picked up my kids from school yet. I was just like once again, once again lying on my living room floor. A different house was one I bought by myself, lying in my living room floor rage, screaming like primal rage. But that anger that you're never, ever allowed to feel, particularly as a woman. Like, I was just rage screaming. And I was screaming out like, how the heck am I going to do this? How am I going to do this? Yeah, I wouldn't you know, it. This little voice came back. Again, and the voice this time was like you were going to make this beautiful. And I remember like stopping and being like, what? And I heard it again. You're gonna make this beautiful. And it was in that moment where I was like, oh, my God. The only expectations I have to meet are the ones I set for myself. So I actually get to defy what anybody else's expectations of are of my cancer experience. And I'm going to make it my own. And I'm going to make it so fucking beautiful. Nobody's gonna know what to do. So from that, it was such a turning point that I realized I'm sure you read The Alchemist by Paulo Pueblo. If you're a reader, that's my favorite book. And I remember going through that process of deliberately making everything about the cancer experience and single parenting. And I was like, this is emotional alchemy. This is taking this dark, painful, really heavy stuff. Allowing enough trust and flow and expertize and intuition to consciously transform it into something beautiful and golden. So to kind of answer the question a very long way. That's the third part of the block. It's full of how you do that. You know, it's very easy to be like if you want to heal and move forward, all you to do is forgive your parents. Do you know what it's like to forgive your parents? Do you know what it's like to forgive an ex-husband who doesn't treat you very well? That's hard. Do you know what it's like to forgive people who you thought you could trust? And then they violated all your trust. So in the book, it's I am so proud of it because it's like. Lots of personal essay, lots of anecdotes. There's so many little funny examples, just like it feels like you're kind of talking to your girlfriend on the couch because it's just kind of a casual conversation. We're intensely practical hands on information that anybody can do, that anybody can just teach themselves how to think. Definitely.

[00:36:40] And as a single mom of three, when I say things like it's lifestyle friendly, you better believe it's lifestyle friendly because, like, ain't nobody got time to get up an extra hour and a half to do a workout and make a great movie and then a bulletproof like, I'm like, no, I can't do that right now. So just tell me, how do I teach myself how to think differently?

[00:36:58] I wrote the tome on it. That's amazing. I love. I'm obsessed with anyone who knows.

[00:37:06] Mayors had the unfortunate experience of hearing me ramble on either in front of a crowd or not. I'm obsessed with action items and utility and and it's because I get lost very easily personally in despair. And, you know, and I look at really, really hard subjects and I don't mind doing that as long as we've got a ladder out what path towards that ladder. And so this this call to to action that you have that, you know, you've insisted on fitting into schedule and things like that is kind of. And it's I'm I'm obsessed with the concept. A lot of books that kind of dove into narrative and things like that. We'll tell you how that particular person kind of came out of it. And frequently it'll be like time passed and things changed and fell in love again or something. And I'm like, this is not a solution, you know, with the dot, dot, dot.

[00:37:55] I what what the hell is happening in the dot, dot, dot that nobody will tell me.

[00:38:00] Yeah, exactly. And so I can't I cannot wait to kind of pull it up and and look at your action items because it sounds like it's it's built that way because that's how you're leading, you know, a lot of your coaching. If you're coming out of fifty seven minutes saying this is a lot better, you know, that does not happen just from saying so my life sucks. You know, it it comes finding solutions out how we can toxify like it was will end.

[00:38:26] Because, you know, I really believe that all of us are soul children and we just, you know, live in bigger houses and drive fancy cars. But I think we all stay kids. And because I have these little girls, my inner child got so neglected as a kid that my inner child was so alive and well because she's fostered in this incredible environment that we've created as a little family, that I didn't want the book to be preachy either.

[00:38:50] So all of those action items I like sometimes if you say homework, people actually do get triggered or really these are activities they get.

[00:38:58] They kind of get put off.

[00:39:00] So I was like, well, listen, I love tacos. If you look at my branding at all, it's a very common thread that weaves itself in I love tacos. When I went to California, eight tacos, like all the way up the coast from California to L.A., but to Seattle.

[00:39:13] Yeah.

[00:39:15] So each of the activities or whatever.

[00:39:17] No, no, no. I was just saying you're right. And I mean, tacos are like more than our air state flag like me very well anyway.

[00:39:26] And so each of be like activities or the action items in the book are called taco activities because everybody likes soccer. And so it like sparks this like Tuckerton. It is so cool.

[00:39:35] Oh, not to forgive my friend, ok. It's like it's so it's very unhealthy because I, it's like I make it a very safe environment for you to trust me.

[00:39:45] And then all of a sudden you're like, oh my God, I'm doing the work and doing the work. And I am really proud of that.

[00:39:51] Absolutely. As well you should be. I think that that's exciting and finding those things. It's interesting you talk about creating a safe haven within, you know, your family, where you're it's it's dancing a fine line. When p when adults you I think you've been the first adult in the past few months has talked about being a child that hasn't irritated me. And I myself felt a little robbed of a childhood, you know, and for it for loving reasons. I came from a beautiful family of six children and it was crazy and dynamic. But my parents definitely did, you know, all that they could. And and I and when people talk about really their childhood, I'm like, oh, so your children hate being them, like, because you get to be the kid in the situation or there's those adults that like, I guess living out their dream. And so their kids are like having to make dinner.

[00:40:35] And I think like what's why are you taking out your problems on the next generation?

[00:40:38] But I like the way that you describe this environment where you're like we all get to kind of feel safe and experience and you're fostering that inner child without, like robbing it of your children, I think is so cool.

[00:40:49] Yeah. And like, my kids and I are not friends. We are not friends. I'm definitely their mother. They are definitely my children. But there it's so Medda because. I am the mother that I didn't get. I am the mother naturally, that I need it. And through my Montessori education, I totally started reparenting myself. And all of this healing is like it's essentially me re mothering myself and against all odds, because, trust me, I heard a lot of negative feedback and a ton of judgment when I when I did get divorced, people were like the worst thing you can do for your kids, you're gonna ruin their lives. And I'm like, well, not like I'm a really good mom. And that's just not that's just natural to who I am with my clients is the same thing. It's a very mothering energy. I'm not going to be like, oh, good. Did you set a goal this week? No. Like, let's be real. Like, what are you actually intending to do? I'm not your hype squad for my kids. I'm like their back them. Right. There's a lot of structure. There's there's this firm ness with a lot of flexibility. But there are these meta moments because we'll be sitting around writing like song parodies, like taking one of the new tillers with songs and making it up. But our cats instead, we're like watching a movie or something. And we all have this moment where it feels like all four of us are systems. Sometimes I'll go take them out for ice cream before dessert.

[00:42:07] First I'll be like, Oh, you do? Don't tell our mom, because there are those moments of like it's so insanely joyful and playful that none of us can believe that I'm your mom. But trust me, there's like so much mutual respect. Everybody is very, very clearly aware of, like, who the mother is.

[00:42:25] It's like it's a beautiful balance. I like the description that you have. You know, I can't wait to kind of unpack it even further in your book, and I feel the same way. I think there's a way to experience such a think, complete companionship with your children, but always remain. I always tell my kids I'm not your friend. So it's not supposed to be fair friendship.

[00:42:45] Frankly, this actually isn't a democracy. So thank you.

[00:42:48] I've heard what you had to say, but ultimately I make you assertion and I don't know what you like. I think, again, this is yes, this is rooted in my own past with the way that I apply emotional alchemy to it is like I was never, ever allowed to be myself or I felt punished and shamed and exiled for being myself. So with my kids I'm like. What do you like? What makes you happy? Let's do that. You want to do dance? OK, cool. Let's explore that. You know, you want to do karate, whatever. Let's explore that, because it's what makes you feel. I have no expectations of my children other than they are showing up as kind, lovely individuals and whatever that means for them. You know, if they're being of service and they're treating other people with respect, that's cool. They each have their own nuances and passion and style of clothing and and interests and hobbies.

[00:43:39] And to me, that individuality, while live, is the purpose of relationships to be completely whole on your own and independent while sharing an interdependent existence. Yeah. Grunting Right. And that is definitely the little environment that we've created in our home is gorgeous.

[00:43:58] That's got to be your next book. I mean, I'm putting it out there. There you go. Well, it's amazing.

[00:44:04] I love it. And I love the dynamic. It's like I said, I'm very sensitive. When things get described, I get like. But that it sounds wonderful. I love the idea of it. I want to climb into one of your chapters because it was narrated. I felt like I read it online and on your podcast, The Myth of Competition, because it really taps into something that we've actually had a lot of conversation on this particular podcast about. This was something I've looked at and a lot of different angles from a lot of different angles through a lot of different lenses in the past. And them if I would be so bold as to quickly just tell you what I heard from it and when listening to the podcast, is that there is this concept that we are all aware of, of women, that we get pitted against each other. And then you unpack it in a more interesting way. I haven't really heard this before, at least not that I can remember reading this kind of angle, but you get into the perception of what competition is. And Dina. And the takeaway for me was there will always be someone better and worse than you. So competition truly doesn't exist and it doesn't foster you in the way that you think it will. It delineates you from your society, from your fellow sisterhood. It can you know, it can actually slow things down. And it actually removes you from the goal that you're probably headed towards in the competition like circus anyway. And so I wanted to kind of talk about how you came to this chapter. Like, it's such a pivotal, crucial thing. It feels like the conversation, even as I tried to make it simple, is still so complex and dynamic per individual. How did you come to writing about this and what kind of made you come to the realizations you came to with it?

[00:45:36] So I have been basically single for about five years. Like, I've dated a couple of people since. Since my marriage ended. But ultimately, I've been single for five years. And while that has been a massive pain point for me over the past few years, because, like, oh, my God, I didn't think I was ever going to be single, like I.

[00:45:52] Where is this football player I've been dreaming about what five years is talking to? It has done.

[00:45:59] It has enabled me not only to be with my family and create a business and all the rest of it go through cancer. It has enabled me to use my thoughts. So I think about this stuff all the time. But because I spend a lot of time in solitude, it actually allows me to kind of tap into the cultural knowledge of what we're experiencing or what we're being told. I have a love hate relationship with Instagram because that's how I created my business. But also, there's so much bullshit on Instagram. Like, it pains me to watch it happen. And so for me, it's like when you start to strip it back and you strip it back and you strip it back. We are a we are animals. We are social animals at that. And so we are naturally inclined to always look to the group to see that what we're to see if what we're doing is in line with what everybody else is doing, because that means we're being accepted or we're not. And if we're accepted. Cool. You get to live. And if you're not accepted. Oh, you're dead. And so I to ignore competition is so stupid to me. It's like, wait a second. We're kind of wired in our DNA to have this litmus test of, like, is what I'm doing. OK. OK. So that's part of us. But the other part of us has to zoom out and realize, yes, we're social animals, but we've also really evolved as a species. So while we are looking out to make sure we're surviving, we actually have to look in and see what am I doing, why am I doing it? And like, what's the whole purpose behind this? If you spend your time looking at what everybody else is doing, you're only witnessing a moment in time. Right. And, you know, like, success is a long game. You can't you can't measure yourself. You can't measure your words and your progress by anybody else's standards other than your own. Because we're all just comparing weird moments in time and that each of us is walking this individual path. Why the hell would I look at anybody else's path, see where they are and why would I internalize that to make that like a metric of my success as my own? So if you understand that, like. Success as my own in this moment and that moment is like a series of moments over a long period of time. There's always gonna be somebody who's doing way worse than I am. And there's always going to be somebody who's way far ahead of me.

[00:48:18] So to me, it seems pretty stupid to do any of that.

[00:48:22] And instead take all that energy and all that focus and be like, OK. Was this my best? No, it wasn't. OK. Then how could I have done that better? Or what would I tweak to make that smoother? Or is this my best? You know what? Given what I had at the time, the resources that I had, this is my best. Look, I'm going to stand confidently in that. And it's so freeing. Just to be at peace with who you are and what you're doing that I really wanted to frame it for people as like competition. Isn't this you really only have to be to value what you're doing and why?

[00:48:56] Yeah, and I love it because it unpacks it. I think a lot of people have different terminology. You know, people who have a really positive relationship with competition don't actually mean the same thing by that word. As someone who has a negative relationship is where I get very into people like defining their terms. Yes. Least this chapter seems to really define the way that you have started to look at and use these words moved beyond them. And I think that that is so crucial. You know, when you're having particularly self dialog, you really need to ask yourself what you mean by those words. And if you're comparing yourself with somebody else, what they mean by those words and if they give you they haven't defined themselves. You can't possibly believe that you're speaking about the same thing.

[00:49:34] Well, then the second part of that chapter is like, I been controversial.

[00:49:40] But the second part of that chapter is that like collaboration over competition. Is like even more of a myth. And I would argue is rooted in such patriarchal roots that it just it makes me want to vomit because I feel like living in this Instagram generation is Instagram culture that we are told over and over again like, don't worry, girls, that we know we put you against each other for so long. But now all you do is collaborate. And then you don't have to feel, though, that bitter pain of rejection from somebody doing better you better than you.

[00:50:10] And to me, I am like I don't even have a good analogy for it. I feel like I'm like a mere cat looking up, being like, is anybody else hearing this shit? They show me a room full of men.

[00:50:22] Show me a fuckin cafe table with two men where they're being told that, OK, boys, you just need to collaborate instead of compete. No, it doesn't exist. That that's not a thing. And it's like, OK. So if that conversation is now a movement for women to champion collaboration over competition, what I hear is playing nice girls. We don't want you to Slainte nobody's feelings to get hurt. You really can't handle it. So why don't you just work together? And I'm like giving middle fingers all over the place. And like, if you want to collaborate for your brand because it's good for your brand or it's good for your soul.

[00:50:57] I work with people sometimes because I love working with them and it's so fun. I don't care what the outcome is. I just want to be in that energy. That's a fucking awesome collaboration. But if something isn't good for my brand, just because I think somebody else might do it better than me. Does that mean I'm gonna then work with her to get ahead? It's like it's so condescending and it's so misogynistic that I like a want bar. Right. I'd like to see it on.

[00:51:26] Well, and it's wrapped in this beautiful you know, it's wrapped in this message of like women lifting up women. You know, that's bullshit. Drag and all of that. And I think that you're right in saying that one must now collaborate. It's just silly as saying one must compete in. And eventually exclusive. Yeah. And they've taken, you know, a word that didn't used to mean, you know, your week and then called it week like collaboration used to be how NASA was built. It wasn't how, you know, we have the population that couldn't get ahead because of, you know, hundreds of years of misogynistic implementation at micro levels, you know. Oh, it's crazy. I want to turn I could talk all day.

[00:52:07] I could have you unpack every chapter, read it, and we'll do just that, too.

[00:52:14] I love asking coaches and people who have done so much self dialog and then turned into, you know, advisers and and mentors of that nature.

[00:52:24] I am obsessed with how you look at goals yourself. So I want to first know as a business person. Do you have one to three your goals for your business endeavors? And second of all, do you use the same structure in which you advise your client tell when it comes to looking at the future or goals or whatever terminology you want to supplement if you hate the word goals.

[00:52:44] Yeah. So I think for me, interestingly, like today's book launch day for me. Right. And I, I had ordered a bunch of copies in advance for pre sale and they arrived a few days ago. And so the from the time they arrived to today has been such an emotional time because you're confronted with it. And I read about this in the book, like the failure, the fear of getting what you want. Suddenly it's like, oh, my God, I've been focused on writing a book, even if on the back burner on my periphery. I've been focused on writing a book for four years. I did it. It's in the world. Last time I checked, it's like number three already arms in self esteem. Like I think it's going to be a bestselling book now to go back into it.

[00:53:27] And at first that, you know, the roller coaster of emotion is like, oh, my God, what do I do now? And the flip side is like, oh, my God, what do I do now?

[00:53:37] So for me, the next one to three years are so interesting because today was the pinnacle of what my goal was, was like. Right. I look today I'm like, I did it. Oh, my God, I did it. Like I created this brand. I started hiring people to run Facebook ads and build online course or build the ads to promote the online courses. You can work with me privately. I have a Quantcast I have a book I do speaking as soon as I can get back on a stage. It's like. Oh, my God. What is next for me? And so I don't know what that looks like. Really, what it feels like is more freedom, more thought leadership. I feel like all this self dialog, all of this work. All this granular attention to the emotional experience we're having. I really feel like my purpose on this earth is to change the global conversation on emotional health and self-love. And to me and this answers the second part of your question as to how I support clients with their goals. I'm so intention based. And, you know, the spirituality component ties them because I know what I want this to feel like. I know what I want how I want to honor my family. I know the level of financial freedom that feels really good for me. I know how I want to be of service to not only my local community, but my global community. And if I'm really clear on that intention, which I am, and if if that intentional why and so beautifully with my values, which it does. Then I almost don't really care what happens next, because I know it's good thought, leadership to me is always possible on my radar. I'm going to be on this TV show. We're shooting it in October. And it's called the Social Movement. It's getting like 60 people together. We're divided by expertize and we're given four days to solve a major problem like education, pendent, how to stop a pandemic. And then we pitch those ideas to a team of investors. So part of me is like, oh, man, what if I get, like, my own Netflix docu series to come out of that or wouldn't wouldn't it be cool? I get on my own Amazon mini series that's just sharing what I know about the emotional experience. I don't know, but I know that it's gonna be so fun.

[00:55:56] It's going to be like lots of work and also lots of fun.

[00:55:59] It sounds like it. I love that and I love that. You know, it came and you had a very clear thought that was just also based out of intention like that faith and knowing what that framework for yourself and understanding that, you know, you could move forward out of that confidence and grace. I think that's everyone's goal is to feel like, you know, that regardless of how clear their goals are, they will be obtainable because they've developed this platform. Well, I wanted. We've got like a few minutes left. And I want to finally climb into my last question, which everyone knows I ask on this particular series, and I'm excited to find out what yours is going to be, your answer. But so if you were walking tomorrow outside of Toronto on your beautiful lake community at a safe social distance and someone ran up to you and it was a woman or a woman identified or non binary individual, they said, listen, I am so good, least I found you. We have someone in common. They've told me to come and talk to you. I have undergone this, you know, like this litany of personal difficulty and triumph from that. And I'm getting ready to kind of pull myself up and pivot and start this huge empire for myself. And it's going to be based on all of my knowledge and all of my findings. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual? Knowing what you know today?

[00:57:19] That's a powerful question. I think it would be. Trust yourself.

[00:57:26] Don't pay more attention to what you have to say than what anybody else has to say, and I appreciate that. It is a long game, and just because it's a long game doesn't mean that you're failing. It just. Sometimes things take more time than you think. And if you can keep yourself present and really, really be in the process without focusing so much on the end goal.

[00:57:55] Beautiful. So I've got trust herself. Appreciate that it's a long game. And stay in the process. Stay present. That's great. All of those, you know, speaking to self-knowledge and then endurance and looking at like the true livelihood of everyone's struggle. And then obviously staying present, which I think a lot of your advice does. I am so thankful for you speaking with us today. It's been such a pleasure for me. And we're out of time. But I just wanted to say I really appreciate your candor. I know that your empire is developed on it, but I feel like you stay present with that. It's very easy. I think when you write as much as you do when you podcast's and things like that to fall into these like very Klip things that we say over and over again.

[00:58:39] But I listen to a lot of information on you online before we spoke. And I've never heard anything that you've given me today. So I just want to say thank you for that. It's it's really appreciated. Your authenticity is amazing.

[00:58:50] Thank you. And what an opportunity to be here. I wish we weren't coast-to-coast because like I want to go for tacos with you or like go get coffee right now. What an amazing opportunity to be here and share the space from across the world.

[00:59:03] Absolutely. And that will happen one day. We are absolutely getting tacos. Soul Sisters, for sure and for certain.

[00:59:12] But yes, I appreciate it. And for everyone listening. Thank you so much for giving us your time. I do appreciate all of you. And we've been speaking with Leisse Wilcox, who's a transformational mindset and success coach and author. You can find out more about her book, her podcasts and her coaching different courses and things like that on her Web site. Leisse Wilcox dot com. That's Leisse i. S s e w i lcross dot com. Her book is called To Call Myself Beloved. A Story of Hope, Healing and Coming Home. Jump online. Grab it off and we will come back around. I always serve. I, I know my audience is like, how could you not have read it. I will grab Leisse back up again before COVID ends and so that she's somehow still at home and I'll trap her into having a conversation with me. Guaranteed.

[00:59:58] With pleasure.

[00:59:59] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:00] So thank you everyone for giving us your time again until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am talking with Stormi Scott. Stormi is the Business Development Manager for Leverage, a software and education platform designed to help small business owners and property investors make more informed and empowered financing decisions. Stormi began her career at one of the largest financial institution in 2016 and through hard work and determination, she advanced herself within the banking system and became a Branch Manager at a Regional Bank.

During her time in the banking industry, Stormi saw firsthand some of the struggles business owners face when seeking financing and her experiences inspired her to want to help create a system to empower better outcomes for all small businesses seeking financing going forward. With Leverage, Stormi hopes to provide small business owners, entrepreneurs, and property investors an advantage in the financing process - and empower them to start their funding conversation like never before.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with business development manager at Leverage Stormi Scott. Key points addressed were Stormi professional history in retail and banking industries that brought her to her work with leverage. We also address some interesting fundamentals in the world of business, credit and financing that are largely unknown by the communities in which they are meant to serve. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Stormi Scott.

[00:00:30] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:27] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia, today I am excited to be sitting down with Stormi Scott. Stormi is a business development manager at Leverage. You can find out more about the company and everything we talk about today at leverage calc dot com. That is l e v e r a g e c a l c dot com. Welcome Stormi.

[00:01:49] Hello. Thank you so much for having me today.

[00:01:51] Absolutely. I'm excited to claim through everything that you're doing at leverage for everyone listening. This podcast will follow the same in the series with the trajectory and the inquiries based out of the similar direct trajectory, namely a roadmap for that will be. We'll look at stories, academic and professional background, and then we'll turn towards unpacking her work as a business development manager at Leverage and what leverage is we'll get into when it was founded. The transitions, how it's grown, all of those things. And we'll talk about funding for it and it being a financial company, it's quite interesting. Then we'll unpack Stormi's goals and plans for the future. We'll look at how those have changed, perhaps with the most recent COVID 19 pandemic wrap everything up with a half an hour with advice for me has for those of you who are looking to get involved or perhaps emulate some of her success before I start peppering her with questions. A quick bio on Stormi Stormi. Scott is the business development manager for Leverage, a software and education platform designed to help small business owners and property investors make more informed and empowered financing decisions. Swarmy began her career at one of the largest financial institutions in 2016, and through hard work and determination, she advanced herself within the banking system and became a branch manager at Regional Bank. During her time in the banking industry, Stormi saw firsthand some of the struggles business owners face when seeking financing, and her experiences inspired her to want to help create a system to empower better outcomes for small businesses seeking financial financing. Going forward with leverage, Stormi hopes to provide small business owners, entrepreneurs and property investors an advantage in the financing process and empower them to start their funding conversation like never before. So start me. I'm excited to kind of climb through that. I think that now is a really appropriate time to be talking about the work that leverage is doing. But before we get into that, I'm hoping you can draw our audience kind of academic and professional background of who you are and who you have been up until your point of working as a business development manager for leverage.

[00:03:57] Yes. So let's just dove right into that. So I come from a family that had very little money growing up. You know, I had to be very, very independent and grow very fast. I learned at a very young age that if I wanted something more out of life, you know, I really would really have to rely on myself. So I got my first job at the age of 15 at Subway, which I have to tell you was the biggest deal to me at that time to earn my own money, you know, and at that time, I actually did have to pay rent to help my mom with like household expenses. But I didn't mind that whatsoever. You know, I continued working throughout my high school, and once I graduated high school, I actually landed a job at a family owned department store. And I continued by getting promoted. And that's what everyone was going off to college. And I just made the decision at that time not to. And really because at that age, you know, I was making good money and I actually had people who worked under me at the time who just graduated from college, who couldn't get a job in their field. And, you know, they would tell me about the struggle that they went through, having all of the student loans and having to pay them off. And, you know, I just decided that if I continue to work hard, I could get where I wanted to. You know, my my experiences and, you know, I did take classes here and there. But, you know, then I did get into like you said, I started my career in banking and I started off working for one of the largest financial institutions. And I found such a passion for helping people with their finances. And one of my favorite parts of my job was actually teaching financial education classes. I went to different businesses and talk to their employees, and I taught at different schools in organizations like Dress for Success and Homeless Shelters. You know, I just I just loved providing that, you know, free financial education because we don't get taught that and, you know, throughout our school years, I just think it's so important. So I then became a branch manager. I actually I'm originally from Iowa. And a couple of years ago, I made the loans to the East Coast, and that's when I became a branch manager for a regional bank excuse me. And that's when I really started working with small businesses. And, you know, I meant many business owners and belt really great relationships. And I just learned the struggle that business owners face when it came to obtaining. Saying, first off, some business owners just honestly didn't know what business credit.

[00:06:31] You know, that that was even a thing which was kind of shocking, but it was true. So it was all about educating them and learning kind of how to build business credit, which is great. Being able to help them do that. But the part that was kind of frustrating for me was when I had a business owner apply for any type of funding and they were being declined or they were being approved for like only a portion of what they would apply for. And that, unfortunately, happened a lot. It was mainly just due to the fact that my finance institution at that time, they are a very, very conservative lender. So you really need to fit in that bank box to be approved. And what I mean by that is, like you really have to meet the requirements. And of course, that's not the case everywhere. Every lender has different loan options, different requirements that you need to meet. But anyways, I wanted to just always be on the side of supporting and educating business owners and entrepreneurs. And I didn't want to do that bad guy delivering bad news. I mean, if anyone is listening and has ever gone to that financing process and got I got a no, it's a horrible feeling. And, you know, so I sat there and I was like, is this really what I wanted to do with my career?

[00:07:46] Or do I want to get into a position where I am able to go out kind of on my own and help more people? So my father in law has a family owned business in the real estate world and in software. And so I decided to get involved with a software company because I loved what it offered business owners. And I didn't really want to stay in that corporate world and limit my career. So when I had the opportunity, I became the business development manager for the financing software. And here I am.

[00:08:17] Yeah, absolutely. So I want to be clear. Going back over as a quick description and I'll have you kind of unpack it for us as well, looking at leverage. But it's a software and education platform designed to help small business owners and property investors make more empowered financing decisions, according from your bio. Yeah, and and I want you to kind of unpack the the real terms of what that means and what it looks like and point to examples and things like that. Before we get to that, I do want to cover the logistics for everybody listening. This podcast series started three years ago with founders and entrepreneurs. And so we always cover the same top three, which was when was it founded? Who were the founders and how long have you been working there?

[00:09:01] Yeah. So a little bit of background on the company. So, John, my father in law, like I said, he's a very successful real estate developer and had when he was actually creating the software, he had plenty of like venture capital, capital and investor interest in the software. But he truly just decided to self-funded to maintain 100 percent ownership and keep it a private company so he could really keep it family owned. And, you know, that really gave us a lot of flexibility with what we offer and for us to have our mission be our own and not have to answer to, you know, to anyone. So we really like that. And we allowed it allowed us to determine where our product is a best fit and like enter the market. So I personally started with leverage back in December of this year, and leverage was really created to level the playing field for everyone who was going for business, finance or commercial property financing. So our mission is all about empowering people for the financing discussion because we know that or in five businesses fail within the first five years due to not getting the capital that they need. So, you know, we we all know how it goes when you initially start that conversation with the lender and the feeling that people get. And even for the most experienced bah bah, we're it's a little bit of trepidation all the way to absolutely dreading it.

[00:10:26] And it's like, why is that? And it's because, like, you're going and not knowing what the lender is going to say.

[00:10:32] You walk and having no idea of the outcome. So how it started was John actually partnered with a commercial banker to write the algorithm for the underwriting and our calculators that we offer. So our original platform was created in 2016 and it was named commercial loan success. And that actually had thousands of customers who vetted over a billion dollars worth of deal flow through that original form over the years. But that platform really was for that experienced borrower who, you know, that experienced business owner who was connecting to a traditional bank. And we know that many, many businesses cannot get a loan from like a traditional bank due to, you know, this or that. So we wanted to create leverage, which is our platform now that allows business owners and property investors at any point in their career. You know, if you're. Starting out or you've been in business for 30 years, either way, you have the ability to determine if you are pre qualified for the financing that you're seeking. And what was really cool that I loved and like when I got involved was, you know, we got told by third party reviews from the software that, you know, it's a look under the hood of commercial underwriting and that has never been done or seen before. You know, most people don't realize how a bank underwrites you. You know, how does your commercial loan long get underwritten? Like what factors determine how much they give you? You know, people just don't know. Patricia, you are such an experienced business owner, like have you ever been through the process and you know.

[00:12:09] Yes, absolutely. I mean, I do have a familiarity in this just because I'm not a young entrepreneur anymore, but I do understand that the actual ignorance of what's entailed and things that are considered is daunting to people and not really thought of until they go and do it. And once they do have the information, it's usually based on things that they wish they had altered or changed prior to applying for loans. And I'm guessing that that's what your company has gone in and kind of solved then and suggested. Do you guys suggest that people get on and find out what their business credit is prior to even thinking about a business loan just out of ways to fix it? And curiosity? I'm thinking of these ways that people credit karma in places that help you clean things up. Does your company advise to that end as well?

[00:13:03] So no matter what with anything. I always recommend that a business look at their credit. I mean, it's actually kind of shocking because like I said before, and my banking for talking to business owners and they had no idea business credit was even a thing. And when I looked into it further, it was like half of all the small businesses didn't even know that business like you have a business credit score. And it's like, why is it important? So definitely because obviously building business credit is so important and part of growing your business, you know, a good business credit score can enable you to move easily to acquire financing. And it also like increases the value of your company and all. And another reason, protecting your personal credit. So the first step is always ensuring if you want to finance the financing process to go very smoothly for you, start with your business credit. Really see all your business credit reports. You can go to the three credit bureaus for business as Experian, Equifax, and of course, of course, that in Broadstreet I always recommend, hey, you can go in there, get your business credit report, see what's on there, see what's affecting your credit. You'd be amazed. I mean, it goes as well as personal credit. You'd be amazed if you see any errors that are just sitting there and nobody knows the look and pull it. And then you just find this area that's been affecting you and that's why you can't get business financing. So definitely. Yes, start there.

[00:14:33] Yeah. When someone arrives at your site, how are they already in need of business financing or do you have people that are also just kind of perusing educational basis of how to kind of look at business financing and business credit?

[00:14:49] Usually they're ready to take that step. They're ready to find financing, especially with the with the business calculators. You know, you're able to go and see if you qualify for a loan line of credit, Tahmoor equipment, like whatever you're trying to jail. But what about another thing that I do find for our property investor calculators is that if you are a property investor and you're thinking about getting involved in a property, are screeners are going to be able to allow you to know if you're able to get financing for that building, which is so valuable. So you don't want to get involved in a transaction and find out you're not going to be able to get financing for that property. So that kind of you know, you can go in and sanity check a property as much as you like before getting involved. So that's kind of where that educational piece would fit and suit bound for that property investor.

[00:15:41] Right. Do you find with them? I mean, you mentioned property management. And I think anybody who's been on the news over the past three months has recognized that it's kind of a tenuous time. What have you guys spoken to the COVA 19 pandemic opening properties and, you know, some of them were major cities and having, you know, a fluctuating rent coming in and things of that nature. People not able to provide rent. The government stepping in a little bit later. Landlords taking the bill for that. Do you have any have you implemented any new verbiage or considered any new systems given there, like the recent state of affairs in dealing with property management, things like that?

[00:16:20] Yeah. So actually, I'm glad that you brought that up. So we heard from a lot of a lot of businesses, a lot of property investors who had who had a lot of issues. And one thing that we did on the property side is we actually added refinancing calculators to all of our property calculators. So therefore, that's what a lot of people were doing. They're like, OK, I'm not going to be able to get rent, what am I going to do? And they want to park cash from their building. So they went in and tried to see if they could refinance a out cash to kind of weather the store.

[00:16:53] And then when it came to the business side, a lot of businesses were like, I'm going to you know, I'm applying for the BPP. I'm trying to see if I can get help from the government. And we were just I was sort of saying, hey, like you came out. Wait. You have to be proactive like it's your business if you are needing financing now to kind of bridge that gap. With everything going on right now, it was hard, though, because we had a lot of people who came to us and was like, why went to my lender that I banked with and been with for years? And they're not able to give me a loan right now. So that was a huge hard part was we didn't know who was lending and what the rules were. They were constantly changing. So we actually dropped Cauvin.

[00:17:37] We partnered with a loving capital because we wanted to create a database which is called Leverage Connecting, and we wanted to create that database for those people who were struggling to find the lenders that were lending.

[00:17:51] And we were just saying, go and see if you can see, you know, trying the software green. And if you can, you can for a digital platform, connect with a lender that is ready to lend to you and find you really faster.

[00:18:06] Nice. Do you have. Do you have areas of aid when someone comes in and discovers that their business, credit or lending capital isn't what they wish that it was? Do you have affiliates or people, other companies that you work with in order to help people kind of repair their credit?

[00:18:26] So we don't have that like we don't work with any other companies at this time. But we do have a really good resource center. So it's kind of like, you know, different articles, different blogs and different. I'm just giving free education on kind of what your first steps are. And I always like to provide my information. If anybody wants, like, a 30 minute consultation with me and sit down and kind of look to see where where things are at.

[00:18:52] I'm always happy to do that because that's what I enjoy doing, right? Yeah.

[00:18:58] I mean, to look at what you said, to look under the hood of the underwriting community. What can you kind of illuminate for everyone listening today about what that entails? When you're looking at business, credit and business loan industries.

[00:19:13] Yeah. So let's kind of go back in the day like you were really able to sit with the decision maker. You know, you could walk into a bank and sit down with, like the head of commercial lending and do a transaction. And that person you were sitting with had the authority to pretty much give you the deal right now with, you know, oh, and everything. Like, so much has changed. And you have that relationship banker, you know, out in front to do all the paperwork. And then the underwriter is just completely a ghost, in my opinion. You know, the banker will advocate and fight for your loan. But they do not make the decisions at the end of the day. You know, you have a customer comes in and applies for an eighty thousand dollar loan and they're like, oh, you know, we can only approve you for 50. And then the customer sitting there like, why? And you can't have you don't have any communication with that underwriter to really provide a solid answer. And I can't tell you how many other customers I would come to me in my drinking days who would go to try to get something from a different financial institution. And they didn't receive they just received a letter in the mail saying, oh, your your transaction has been declined. And that was no reason. So I just think, like, a huge, huge, huge problem is the miscommunication of what they were really needing from from the customer.

[00:20:37] And I mean, I feel like the two biggest reasons that it's difficult for people to get approved for a bank loan is just them themselves walking in not prepared, you know, not knowing what they need and how much they really think is realistic for their business.

[00:20:53] People come in with unrealistic expectations. And when you go in for getting any type of financing, you never want to walk into a situation being unprepared and not knowing the outcome especially like, women.I feel like it is so much harder for us to dive into something completely blind and not knowing what will happen in the at like we as women would probably not do it. We're like, no, thank you. I'm good. I'll use my personal credit credit cards, which is horrible. Horrible idea, but true because, you know, you're going into a financing system that at times are stacked against you.

[00:21:30] And so you need to level the playing field and navigate that system with confidence. So that's why, you know, we have the technology now that's available to you. And we just with leverage, we want to answer a simple question like, are you financeable, yes or no? And if it's a yes, you know, and maybe you're having a bank tell, you know, you need to feel comfortable with going to the next lender because like I said before, every lenders are different. There's so many different alternative lenders out there. You know, you can get the financing you need, but you we have to say no because you don't fit their aren't requirements. And, you know, maybe you've only been in business for a year and a half and they need you to be in business for. Two years and, you know, you never know what they're looking for.

[00:22:12] And I mean, now, if you are not getting financed instead of, like, bearing embarrassing yourself in front of a lender, you can take the steps inside the software to become finance. Also, you can go back in the software and see where things must improve to realistically move forward before speaking to a lender. So maybe you need more revenue, maybe a cosigner come into play. If it's credit on, if you have high expenses, like how much do you need to cut back on your expenses, do that. That question is answer within the software. So really, just doing what you can do on your end to be fully prepared before going and speaking to a lender is going to change that conversation and you are going to have such a better outcome. And I always like to say, like, nobody knows the outcome when you're going in and putting your dad into the software because, you know, you're at home, you're at your office desk and you run an analysis. And if you're prequalified, like you go out, when you get freaking empowered, you take that report and give it to that lender. And what we tell our customers is to say, I use a third party software that tells me I'm qualified for this loan. Would you like to continue the conversation with me? And that's pretty much just saying, you know, can you do this deal? Yes or no? And you, the borrower, we're just completely turned the table around because that wonder why you're coming in as one of the most prepared borrowers. And that's not like us. You know, asset leverage saying no. But that's actually feedback that we've received from banks because, well, they've hit up our customer service line being like, where can we get more of these leverage customers? Because they're coming in prepared. And it's making light on them easier, right?

[00:23:55] Yeah. And I think it's crucial to remember that banks are as humaine or as responsible or exploitative as we make them. Yeah. As people. And they haven't been required to be they've been draconian. You know, two thousand eight pointed that out. But even since the repair and things like that and that industries is far from good. And I think that companies like this that return information, education and power back over to the borrower is crucial in moving forward with their financial systems. On the whole. I'm wondering, how does your model work personally with the software? Is it subscription? Is it a one time purchase? How does all of that happen with the and other aspects of tools for free? The calculators. How does all of that play?

[00:24:41] Yeah. So when John was actually pricing the software, how many people actually were telling him to put a one in front of the prices just because like because of the value of what you get from from the calculators. But he didn't want to do that because we didn't want price being a way of getting people into the software and becoming empowered. So it is on a subscription base. So for fifty seven dollars a month is a monthly plan. And that's great for anybody doing like a short one term financing transaction with no additional financing or refinancing predicted.

[00:25:15] And that is a pay as you go cancel any time. And then we also have the one 97 four annual plan. And that's perfect for that person who wants to like sanity, China's new financing opportunities. You will be doing more than one transaction in the year.

[00:25:31] It allows you to preserve your dashboard of data for refinancing purposes. And that plan does include like a 30 day. No questions asked. Money guarantee as well with our software. So anybody who is looking at business or business finance calculator is a cash flow tool that really determines that first reaction of a lender. So you go in and how you use as you input your business information, your expenses, revenue, any add backs that you can put back and you can pretty much string that software green, that means your business is lendable and you can walk into a bank feeling confident. And like I said before, if it's not green, you can really see where your numbers must improve to realistically afford. And then with our property calculators, we have three different ones, multifamily, commercial and mixed use.

[00:26:23] And they all have refinanced calculators, the tops of them, like I said, due to Coalbed. And those actually do really, truly do prete underwriting for those properties. So it really depends on who you are and what you're looking to do for those those type platers. It's an awesome tool for anybody who is looking to invest in commercial property to determine if you're able to obtain financing for that property. Like I said and in addition to that, with each calculator also provides you a leverage report, which is just personalizing financing for containing the transaction metrics that lenders are looking for to initiate and completely jump start that funding conversation. And when a lender receives a leverage report. Look at it and understand it and read exactly what you're wanting to do. Less than two bet. So really, like I said, yes. An opposition gets going.

[00:27:18] Absolutely. I'm curious, what are the plans for leverage for the next one to three years? Is there going to be growth within the utility? And also, before I let it go about the conversation. I mean, it begs the question, especially with the breach some four years ago. Do you guys sell information even anonymously about your accounts or do you share it with other people, lenders, things of that nature? Is it all private and confidential?

[00:27:43] It is all private and confidential. We are a cloud based software, so everything is protected with your username and password. And one thing that we really wanted to be clear about was that when it comes to when you connect with a lender like that, is you connecting with them? We are completely not in the line of loan detail. So once you utilize our software and take that leverage report and then from there it's on you. We don't want to be involved in any other life long process. But so far, our goal is so what?

[00:28:21] With leverage. We've only been in the market for a couple of months now with this new platform leverage. Calkin and you'll like it. This is the sister app from the original, you know, and it's been getting a lot of good traction. We figure that we can be over a thousand users by early fall and hoping for 10000 by next spring and just kind of continuing from there. And some may say that's a little ambitious by our platform is really unique. And, you know, there is nothing in the marketplace that allows business owners the ability to become prequalified. You want to go out and buy your first home without getting prequalified first. Right. So same same kind of thing. But what that also comes like our challenges. You know, when you have a product that no one's really searching for because they don't know what's out there, you really have to you know, it's my job as the business development manager to really organically spread the word. You know, I work on that every day, connecting to people, making connections with people to just helps spread the word of what our software can do. And in an expanding and other goals that we have. We definitely do want to expand into developing some more calculators. There are some unique calculators that we want to kind of get into for different business settings that we can create to serve and empower those businesses like company on building, self-storage, mobile, home, park flippers as a flipping is huge right now. But our our property circulars are really geared toward commercial properties. So that's five units and up. It's not that residential. Wanted to add those flippers. So that's definitely what we want to get into for sure.

[00:30:05] This sounds wonderful. It sounds advantageous since it's going to be a busy ride. Yeah. Closing in Stormi towards the end of the podcast and I have my final question that everyone who listens to this series knows. I always ask and that is if you were out and about this a social distance tomorrow and you bumped into another woman or female identified by another individual who said, listen, you know, I've I have gotten a really great footing in the occupational industry. I've I've done a lot of different career paths. I started off in retail, managing people. I went on I did a bunch of the banking information industry and I now I'm gonna kind of go into this and family run and bad business, credit, financial enterprise.

[00:30:51] What are the top three pieces of advice you would give the individual knowing what you know now from your endeavors?

[00:30:57] That's a really good question. I would have to say for me, giving advice throughout kind of going around that the same career path is really just getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. Like if you don't get out of your comfort zone, you might find yourself staying in one place and never seizing different opportunities because you are scared. Like, if I didn't do that, I would not be where I am today. And I really, truly believe that being that discomfort brings engagement and change. And it means that you're doing something that others are and do not be scared of failure if something is not very new to you. Like go out and treat failure as an asset and learn from it. And when you go out of your way to experience new things or when you let things happen to you, you gain so much in terms of personal development. So my advice is get out there and show up for yourself.

[00:31:56] Nice. I love that. I've got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Do not be scared of failure. Use it as an asset and get out there and engage. You'll love it.

[00:32:11] That's so wonderful. Well, Stormi, we thank you so much for taking the time to meet with us and discuss leverage. I really appreciate it. I think it's been eye opening and kind of considering these aspects of business, credit and lending. And I'm hoping that everyone in the audience found as useful as I did. I appreciate your time today.

[00:32:29] No, thank you so much for having me. And like I said, if anybody wants to reach out to me, please reach out to me personally. My email stormi s-t or am I that Scott ncdot at leverage kelts and that's c a l c dot com. I'd be more than happy to talk to anyone.

[00:32:46] Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that little personal reach out and I'm sure there's plenty of people that need your advice. So thank you again. And for everyone listening, thank you for giving us your time today. We've been speaking with Stormi Scott, business development manager at Leverage. The company's Web site is again leveraged seei l.c dot com. Until we speak your next time. Thank you for your time. And remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am talking with Ahyiana Angel. Ahyiana is the Founder of Mayzie Media and host of the personal growth podcast Switch, Pivot or Quit. A traditionally published author and speaker, Ahyiana and her work have been featured by Apple, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Girlboss and more. Quit Playing Small is her latest highly buzzed-about book that's a must-have for morning routines.

Key points addressed were

Ahyiana’s professional chronicle that took her from a prolific PR and jewelry design career into writing 2 books, hosting an influential podcast, and launching Podcast Production company Mayzie Media
We also discussed Ahyiana’s advice when it comes to the particulars of book writing and publishing and the various experiences she encountered producing both of her books

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with founder, author and podcast host Ahyiana Angel. Key Points address whereAhyiana's professional chronicle that took her from a prolific PR and jewelry design career into writing two books, hosting an influential podcast and launching a podcast production company, Mazey Media. We also discussedAhyiana's advice when it comes to the particulars of book writing and publishing and the various experiences she encountered producing both of her books. Stay tuned for my invigorating talk with Ahyiana Angel.

[00:00:37] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and nonbinary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM. You can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:34] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.

[00:01:37] And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Ahyiana Angel. Ahyiana is the founder. She's a founder, a podcast or and an author. You can find out more on one of her Web sites. I'll have her bring in the other one later in the podcast at w w w dot. Switch, pivot or quit dot com. Welcome, Ahyiana.

[00:01:57] Thank you, Patricia, for having me.

[00:01:59] Absolutely. I can't wait to unpack. I know that our audience has written and we were talking off the record about a great deal of aspects of different endeavors that you've kind of climbed through recently. And I can't wait to look at that, namely your book and the process of writing that and getting it published, as well as looking at your podcast. It's got a prolific history and following, as well as your Web site, some of the core tenants in the ethos behind what you do and for everyone who's listening who might be new to the podcast. I will read a quick bio on Icona to kind of give you a platform before I ask her to kind of expand on that herself. But before I do that, a trajectory in which the line of inquiry for today's podcast will come from a road map for all of you to follow. I will first ask Ahyiana to kind of unpack her personal, professional and academic history as it relates to the work that she's doing now. We'll then dove straight into unpacking her professional chronicle. So we will look at all of her endeavors, writing the book, her website, as well as her podcasts and anything else she's involved in this kind of forming the ethos of her brand, her business, and perhaps her future endeavors will then turn to looking at goals that I own a house for the next one to three years, with all of her work spanning across all of her different activities. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice at Ahyianami. For those of you who are looking to get involved, perhaps emulate some of her career success as promised. A quick bio on Ianna. Before I start peppering her with questions, Man Angel is the founder of Mazey Media and host of Personal Growth podcast Switch, Pivot or Quit, a traditionally published author and speaker,Ahyiana and her work have been featured by Apple, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Girl, Boss and more Quit Playing Small. Is her latest hype highly buzzed about book? That's a must have for. Morning routines and we'll unpack all of that. Ianna, before we get to the book and all of the kind of exciting things you're doing. I was hoping you could draw some a stage or a background platform of your personal history, your academic history and your professional history as it leads to and pertains to what you're doing now.

[00:03:59] So that's a great question. I haven't I haven't had it posed like that.

[00:04:05] So my personal background is that I am from California, born and born and raised, and I am the oldest of four siblings, which I think plays into. I think you could say my leadership tendencies. You know, you have to become a leader early on in the household when you're the oldest. Right. And have a lot of responsibility and all of those things. So I think that's a part of that foundation has helped me to sort of navigate all the different challenges that have come our way. And not that there's been a ton. It's just life happens. Right. So my undergrad, my undergraduate degree in business administration and my concentration was marketing. But funny enough, I was one of those people. And this ties into sort of my whole growth getting to where I am now. I was one of those people who heavily consulted with my parents, namely my father, about my career choice, what I was going to do. And he obviously wanted me to do something. I was going to make any money, but also that I would be remotely interested in. So when I first initially went to college, I thought that I was going to be in a physical therapy program. I thought that that was gonna be my route that I was going to take. And then I got into my very first physics class and I was like, girl, this is not for you. This is not going to work. So science wasn't my thing. So then I said, okay, I'm gonna go to the College of Business. And I thought, OK, I see my dad. He's in that whole tech sort of I.T. space. And so I said, OK, I could do this, I can make good money. And then I got into the first class and all these zeros and ones and I was like, this does not make any sense to me. So once again, I had to switch things up and I ended up finding myself in marketing because for me it was a nice compromise between doing something that was business related, but also creative. And I just found myself feeling like this could open up a ton of different avenues for me. And I really didn't know where it was going to take me. So I ended up taking internships and marketing spaces. I had an internship at Showtime Networks through this amazing program called the T. Howard Foundation. And I also ended up getting an internship at the game show network just as I was graduating my senior year. And that's what introduced me to PR. And so when I was introduced to PR, I didn't really know what I could do with it. But I quickly realized that there were a lot of crossover with the skills that I had and the skills that were required to succeed in that field. So I ended up staying in that field and eventually making my way to New York from L.A. to New York and working at the National Basketball Association, doing sports entertainment PR. And so that was very exciting at the beginning, that the first three years. It was just like this amazing experience. It was a dream job. It was a dream company to be working for. But then eventually, this is where it comes back around. I started tapping back into how I really felt, what I really wanted to be doing and what was in like an alignment with me as a person as I was starting to get to know myself. And in the midst of that, I realized I wanted to tap into my creativity more. And so I did just that. And I started a jewelry line while I was working my nine to five. And it did really well, like our stuff. Our jewelry was worn by beyond, say, and like Lauryn Hill and some amazing people. But what that did was that introduced me to the idea of entrepreneurship and what could be possible with it. It also introduced me to other people who were doing it successfully. So eventually I got to a point where I said, you know what, I want to do something more. I feel I'm feeling I'm having this strong tug that there's more that I should be doing. I just don't know exactly what it looks like. And then that's what led me to making the transitions, because at a certain point, I felt like I had checked all the boxes. I had done everything that was expected of me. So now was time for me to start to venture into the space of what do you really want? What really feels right to you? And so that's sort of how I started coming into this journey of creating the switch, pivot or equip podcast and doing writing and doing all the other things that I do now.

[00:08:38] It's interesting because your story, you know, a lot of people think that they quit something when they're miserable or whatever, but you've got this magnificently successful career. And then you've got this magnificently successful moonlighting endeavor with the jewelry. And you still chose to kind of switch and ask to have that internal dialog about self happiness and things like that.

[00:08:57] What do you think promoted you continuing on? You know, you have two forms of success that you came into. But this is this persistent issue that you have with kind of re dialoging with yourself about what makes you happiest and things like that. Do you have an impetus that kind of caused you to continue to question or do you think it was just kind of an inborn thing?

[00:09:18] I think it was kind of an important thing, I think I'm just that type of person that's always looking for freshness. That's always. It's not that I'm not settled in spaces. It's just that I feel like I could be doing more. And it's not that perfection or, you know, really driving yourself and not really ever appreciating your accomplished accomplishments type of. I feel I could be I could be doing more. It's more along the lines of what's out there. This is a huge world with a ton of options and possibilities. And the more that I get introduced to things, the more that certain things may piqued my interest or I may feel called to a different direction. Or I may feel like I could be of service or I could really succeed in a certain space, or I start to see and learn things about myself that I didn't know before, which helps me to get interested in how I could pull more of that out. So I think it's more of an internal thing versus something that's coming from the outside in making me think that I need to, you know, switch favorite or quit.

[00:10:24] Yeah. And they talk I mean, a lot of people talk about the mystique of entrepreneurs, you know, and the spirit of entrepreneurism kind of being something that's just this hunger within or things of that nature. So it doesn't come with that. OK. So I'm curious, you switch out of both of these endeavors in the jewelry and the PR. And I'm wondering what happened. First, you have this prolific podcast. You have, you know, hundreds of episodes. And did that happen? Did you immediately develop this brand? Did you write your first book? Which Endeavor Came First?

[00:10:57] So while I was working, I was working also on my first book so I would wake up an hour earlier than I needed to get ready for work, which I hated because I'm not really a morning person. And I would work on this book. I would be writing and I'd be half asleep writing, but I had this goal to finish.

[00:11:17] So it took me about nine months of working on this book while still working in my full time job. And once I was done with the book or I felt like I was in a place that it was done. That's when I started entertaining, putting in my notice and just really taking this series in terms of trying my hand at becoming an author. And for me, it wasn't about entrepreneurship. It was more about finding my happiness. You know, I was no longer satisfied doing what I was doing day to day. It wasn't making me happy. And so I said, I need to figure out what's going to make me happy and I need to go in that direction. And I don't know what that's going to look like. There was a ton of uncertainty, but I was open to it because I also had confidence in myself. I said I can't control everything. I don't know everything that's going to come our way. Or what I do know is that I can give my best. And I know the things that I'm skilled at and I can use that to make this a better situation. So the book writing came first and then I quit the job. Then luckily, I was really, really extremely blessed to have an opportunity about four months after I quit the job to get a traditional book publishing offer. And I was completely novice to all of this. I didn't even know when I got the offer. I called my editor and I was like, is this like, good?

[00:12:40] Like, is this something I should be like doing? And she's like a yarn. Are you kidding me?

[00:12:44] So many authors that I'm working with right now who would kill to be in your position? I was like, OK, I'm happy. OK, this is good. This is good. So for me, it was a process of just taking things as they were coming and doing what I knew I needed to be doing and following sort of like that internal voice as well. Because when I first quit, I didn't know that I was going to get this publishing deal. But I remember having a conversation with my dad and I was deciding on investing in this. This editor.

[00:13:12] And it was a lot of money at the time, seeing as how I had just quit my full time job. And so I was like, you know, should I do this? And he just asked me a question. He was like, Do you believe in yourself? Do you believe in this project? And I was like, Yeah, of course I do. And he's like, didn't do it. What decision is there? If you believe in it, do it. And I was like, OK, I'm gonna do it. And that's sort of like what kicked off all all the other things falling in place. And then eventually, once I wrote the book once again, I was very, very fortunate to have the book come out a little less than a year of me starting this process. Usually it takes minimum a year for a book to be published. And so for me, it came out. I did this book tour and I was starting to realize how people were gravitating to my story and the changes that I had made in my life and the decisions that I made, because I also not only left my job and rurals, this book, I left my job, wrote this book, or got an opportunity to get it published. But I also left New York and went to London and lived there for about four months. Traveled around and had some amazing experiences, so people were like, how are you doing this? And I want to do more of what you're doing, maybe not follow the exact same path, but I'm interested in shaking up my life, basically. And that's what eventually brought me to the podcast and to switch, pivot or quit, because I realized that I was uniquely qualified to tell that story, to tap into what that looks like and to be that person to help share those stories with other people. The stories that I would have wanted to listen to when I was sitting at my desk on Fifth Avenue in midtown Manhattan trying to figure out what the heck am I going to do next? So that's how I got to the podcast. And this switch proved that a quick conversation, because I knew how it felt to be having these feelings. But you don't exactly know what to do with it. And then you don't know what other people are doing and your peers may not be experiencing the same thing at the same time. So then you start to feel isolated and alone in these feelings as well. So I wanted to create a conversation that let people know that they weren't, you know, going crazy.

[00:15:22] Yeah, absolutely. Really quickly, before we drop into the podcast and some of its particulars, what how did you find your editor for the first book? Did you do a search?

[00:15:30] Did you have a referral? We've had a lot of people write in. Namely, people who want me to ask authors to come on this show. Asking about locating it can be a predatory situation. Finding an editor. Finding a publisher. You know, self publishing. And we can climb into that later when we talk about your second book. But I want to get into how you personally found your first original editor and how you knew whether or not the price was fair. You talked about having this long conversation with your father about it, but how did you find that individual and how did you deduce that they were legitimate and fair?

[00:16:00] Sure. So what even brought me to an editor was when I was maybe three quarters of the way done with the book. I started querying agents and the query process can be a bit daunting and intimidating as well, because you read all this stuff that says tons of people query these agents and their query letters and all the time, and then some agents don't even accept unsolicited queries. So you also it's a combination of you having to find the right agent who represents the projects in your genre, as well as them being interested in what you're pitching. So you have to pitch them and they have to believe in you because they ultimately have to sell the project. Right. So I had gotten quite a few responses where people were interested. But I remember this one rejection. I was sitting in a hotel room in Miami at the NBA finals in the office room, basically working. And I checked my personal email and I got a rejection from this agent and he basically said, I love this story. I love where it's going. But I unfortunately, I can't take this to my editors sees me. He said, I can't take this to my editors right now as it is. That crushed me. But what I have to do is take a step back and realize, OK. So he's saying it's a good project with potential. It just needs to be cleaned up and tightened up by an editor. So that's what brought me to actually hiring my own editor, because unfortunately, publishing is very similar to the music business right now. You see all these indie artists that you picked up or labels want to pick them up? Well, it's the same thing with publishing. They want you to come to the table with a project that's pretty much ready to go, ready to hit the shelves, ready to be sold and ready to be pushed. So I had to hire my own editor and that's where the process came in and the conversation with my dad. But how much do you believe in this project? So what I did was I started doing the research about editing, what types of editing, because I didn't even know that there were different types of editors who edit for different things. Right. And so I started to realize what type of editor I needed. And then I also started to get an idea of what type of fees editors were charging. This editor that I decided to go with. She was a recommendation. A quick other little note that I think I should mention only because it was very random, but it worked out in my favor. I was at work doing some research, found this thing called office hours. I don't even know if they do it anymore, but it was where professionals lend their time and their expertize to people just simply for nothing because they want to do good. So you can sign up. And so I did that and I got in touch with this woman who was an agent. Her and I ended up becoming friendly. We met up for drinks one evening and she is what I told her everything that was going on, my process. She's the one that told me about this, Ed, that ended up going with. She told me about the Ed come to find out that Ed and I also had another mutual friend. So at this point, I felt comfortable with her that she wasn't going to, like, take my money and run or, you know, that she was a reputable person. And she was also on a higher end because she had worked at a lot of the larger publishing houses and still was working with them. So she was not just an editor who says, hey, I can edit your work for you. She was someone with a proven track record. So that's why the price point was there as well. So when I ended up hiring her, it was actually a great process and an easy process, working with her and her, giving me the feedback. We met up in person a few times. So that's nice. If you're in the same city as a person or you can meet on Zoom. But I think the main thing is you need to do your research and you need to see who else is vouching for this person, because it can be a situation where someone tells you that you're an editor, but maybe they're not qualified to edit your work. That's the other thing. Just like with an agent, you want to make sure that the editor that you choose, that they are also interested in the genre, that you write it because you don't want to get a sci fi editor and you're doing a romance novel. They may not edit the same way or see the potential or see where you're trying to go with it. So I know that that was a lot, but I really want to share the full process because there's layers to getting to where you have to actually or where you actually want to be, right?

[00:20:35] Yeah, absolutely. And no, I think it's wildly useful information. I know a ton of entrepreneurs and savvy business established people like, you know, looking at writing books. And it's an area that just keeps transforming itself and needs to be discussed before we let it go. I do want to ask you personally, did you the utility of your editor and did they indeed edit your work? Did they guide the refinement? What kind of a role did they play for you?

[00:21:01] Absolutely. So she went through and she did the editing for the words Escape Me right now, but she did the editing for this specific, like sentence structure and everything. And then she also did the editing for the continuity in the story, like I remember, for one example. Couple different places in the novel. I mentioned a cab, but then I mentioned a taxi in another place and she's like, you have to be consistent if you're going to call it a cab. Call it a cab. If you're going to call it a taxi. Call it a taxi. And those types of things I would have missed. I didn't know the importance of that. But that's the kind of attention to detail that she had. And also she in her note, she asked questions. Maybe you want to think about adding this. Maybe you want to think about fleshing this out a little bit more. It feels like there could be more to this portion to paint the picture. You know, so she was really, really thorough. She was very thorough. And I appreciated her for that. And her name is Ricky Reynolds. If anybody is thinking maybe she could be the girl for me, too. She and she's really amazing. And she's no nonsense in the sense that she's not here to be your best friend. She's here to do the best work possible. And she's serious about editing your work really well.

[00:22:16] Nice. That's a great shout out, Rakeysh. So I want to turn now I want to pivot to looking at your podcast. It sounds like it came about, you know, with the advent of your first book.

[00:22:28] I want to know, can you kind of cite a rough year or time period in which it was launched and the scope of it when it was launched, if you had a clear, concise idea or if you just wanted it to accompany your current endeavors, what was the whole motivation behind launching it and kind of the structure? Oberon's the original launch.

[00:22:46] Sure. So I launched in twenty seventeen January twenty seventeen, if I'm not mistaken. So it's been about three and a half years that I've been doing it. And when I launched, I was running a program running a platform on social media by a different name. And so I thought this could be a good continuation of those conversations via the podcast. But I also was a podcast listener, so I knew that I wanted the structure to be in such a way that. You knew what you were gonna get when you started listening to an episode, just how, you know, you ran down at the top of the show, what people can expect to listen to. That's what I liked to hear when I was listening to a podcast because was nothing more frustrating than looking at a podcast title, being 20, 30 minutes in. And they're still talking about their weekend with a all these, you know, things that don't matter to me, you know. And so I said, I want to have a very tight structure and I want people to get the most that they can get, the most goodness that they can out of these podcast episodes. So I'm not here for the fluff. I do not want the fluffy stuff at all. So for me, I knew exactly where I wanted to take the podcasts and the conversations. When I started it, I, I did have some hiccups in the beginning because it was called it had a different name and switch privative quit was just a segment. And then I realized, no, this is with this switch, pivot or quit name is really speaking to the real conversation that I want to have. The overall theme of everything. So this needs to be the name of it. So I ended up switching the name a few months in. And for me. I just wanted to create a conversation that would be beneficial to other people. And I realize that with so many people coming to me asking me about my story on my journey, people wanted to hear these types of stories. So I just knew that I had to be the person to tap into them. It wasn't like I had this, you know, extreme grand thought out marketing plan as to how I was going to use this podcast. Really, this podcast was just a channel for me to be helpful to other people.

[00:24:54] Yeah, so I and I've listened to episodes. I went back in your history to listen to some old ones and I've listened to the most recent ones. And and you do have this as you said, you've kind of created everything around the ethos. And I'm curious about the curation because you still have a lot a huge arena that you can draw from and you're still going to have to edit it down, as it were. You know, you've spoken to people about utility, about efficacy of their work schedule. You bring on women, or at least the ones I listen to where women are female, identified individuals with them. All of these different caveats as to, you know, how to increase your span and climbing in the workforce. A lot of people talk to I listen to one where you had two women on and one was advising that you start, you know, taking meetings with people and writing those those meeting notes down for yourself so that you keep them accountable. All these little tidbits that people can kind of incorporate into their wife. But I'm wondering how you curate who you bring on. I mean, how do you compose? Because you bring specialists on or people from different fields that have these really great pieces of advice for all umbrella. But how do you yourself compose that? Do you sit down on a monthly or weekly ledger? Do you let it kind of play out organically? How does that work?

[00:26:05] I actually let it play out organically. You would think that I have a much more like.

[00:26:11] Involved scheduling process or anything, but no, I think that a part of the beauty for the Switch to Quit podcast is the organic nature of it. I truly speak to people that I'm interested in hearing their story. Someone may have a great switch, private equity story, but if it doesn't move me and if I'm not interested, then unfortunately I don't want to hear from them because I don't think my audience will want to hear from them. I want to hear from people who I would have wanted to hear from or who have something to say that I think would have been useful when I was in the midst of transition. That's simply what it comes down to. That is the guiding light for the podcast. It's like so many people now are pitching to be on podcasts because they think it's a great way to market yourself and get yourself in front of other people's audience. And while it is, it has to make sense. People people who don't take any time to listen to our podcast before they pitch me, they pitch a man to me and they don't even realize I've never interviewed or spoken to a man on the podcast. Never. Never. So you could save yourself some time, you know. But what happens is people just get so caught up in the me, me, me of things that they don't think about. I'm trying to serve an audience here. I don't care about what your story is. I don't care about what your product that you're selling is. If it's not going to be beneficial for a group of people, if it's not going to be beneficial, I don't care about it. So that's really what my process looks like. I don't have some extreme process. I don't vet guests like, you know, get on the phone with them first and ask them 90 questions. No, it's about the feeling that I get. And do I think you're coming from an honest and authentic space? Do I think when I ask you questions, you're gonna give me cookie cutter answers or do I think you're gonna give me the raw answer that you didn't think about before a day before getting on this podcast interview? You know, I want people to come from a very honest and genuine and raw space so that other people can really connect with what they're saying, what they're sharing, because we're all trying to figure this life thing out.

[00:28:15] We don't have perfect answers for everything. But what we can share is our experiences. What we can share is what we've learned from our experiences. And if you're not willing to share that in an honest way, I don't want to talk to you. That's just what it comes down to.

[00:28:29] No, and it's marketing, too. You know, I always say I tell a lot of people I speak on a lot of podcasts about, you know, how how to start out podcasts and things like that, because I have so many and I say it's still the Wild West and confusing for people.

[00:28:42] You know, a podcast can take any form, it can be any length. They can do anything it wants. But the truth is, is that the true divisive line is that you have some podcasts that are truly about marketing and then you have others that are investigating something. Any number differences. And I think that some people get confused and try to go with their marketing agenda onto an investigative platform. And that's where the disparity can come up that you're talking about. And I truly agree to its podcast. For me, one of the most beautiful things about them is the transparency. It's supposed to hostile rhetoric, you know, and it's supposed to do so without having to have a degree in broadcast journalism. Anybody add up and share their story and their voice and it becomes authentic and real and some you tenuously a whole new genre of media that no one really knows what to do and how to classify it. And I love it for all of that. And so I think the marketing I feel like we just need channels for the marketing. So it kind of stays separated a little bit from the more authentic and real voice that you're talking about. Is that when you started just for people who are out there and listening about some of the logistics, how did you decide how many episodes you were going to release a week? How did you decide some of those earlier things? Did it change as you started doing? You know, if you started classing over into the hundreds mark? What episode do you know roughly are you on right now? And what's been some of the like the transformation that's happened with it?

[00:29:58] Sure. I think I'm about to 60 something right now. Two hundred and sixty something. I started off doing twice a week, so I used to do well. It was once a week and twice a week, sort of like this short timeframe. They blended together. But I started off doing weekly episodes because I at first I thought I could do like every other week. But then I quickly realized, like, why would you hold back? Go full throttle. And these are conversations that need to be heard. And if you really want to get people engaged in this conversation, you have to keep showing up for them. You can't give them too much time off. Right. So that was me trying to introduce the podcast and the conversation to people. Then I started doing this thing called Seven Minutes Sunday, because at the time I was having these musings that I really wanted to share in the podcast wasn't about me and my voice. Right. So I was from the beginning, I was interviewing people that it was very interview heavy and it wasn't about telling my stories so much so or giving my perspective so much. So when I started the seven minute Sundays is because more people wanted to hear from me and my thoughts on different things. So I started sharing those on Sundays because Sundays were the days that I dreaded the most. Right. A lot of people call the Sunday Skerries all these different things. Right. I have to go back into the week. Oh, my gosh. I don't feel like doing this. Or like, I just want Sunday to never end. Right. So I started off with that mindset of if we're talking about a switch, pivot or quit, we're talking about people who are in the midst of transition or entertaining a transition. So they may be feeling that way on a Sunday. Right. So what can I do to help serve them on a Sunday? To give them something to be motivated to go into the week or maybe shift their outlook on things or give them something to be excited about or positive about? So I started doing seven minute sundaes, did those for a while. Well over a year. And then eventually I got to a point more recently.

[00:32:00] So about two years, I would say to two and a half years I did weekly episodes without fail. And then I got to a point where I realized that especially some of my new listeners, they were having a hard time keeping up. You also have to pay attention to the landscape. Like you said, podcasting is still like the wild, wild west. You have some shows that are daily. You have some shows that are multiple times a week. You have some shows at their frequency is really, really high. Right. They have a loyal listenership. You have to pay attention to your listeners and your audience and who they are, what they have going on in their life. I realize there are a lot of working mothers in my community of listeners, and a lot of times people can't make the time to listen to a podcast like they want to. The intentions are there. The intentions are good, but sometimes they just can't make the time or now they're being torn because there's a lot of different options of things that you can listen to. And, you know, before when I first started, I feel like it wasn't as many options. Right. So now there's more options. There was more voices in the space. So they have to decide where they're going to go and how much time they're going to devote to these different podcasts. So I started to pull back and I started to do every other week for a little while because I wanted to give people time to catch up. And I wanted to give people time to actually listen. I'm not producing this stuff just to say that I produce it. I did it. I'm producing it so that it can bring value into your life. But if you don't have the time to listen to it or if you haven't had the time to catch up and I just keep producing more episodes, is it really benefiting you? So that's where I have sort of gotten to at this point. Right now I'm doing weekly episodes for like the next two month months because I'm also incorporating older episodes. I'm doing reboots so that people who haven't been listening from the beginning can tap back in to some of the great conversations that were had way early on and that are still relevant.

[00:33:51] That's very clever. And I've talked to a lot of people that have done this, the idea of kind of, you know, and they've they've edited down, they've spliced it back in. They've come back in with commentary. And it's some of my most favorite work with some of the most prolific podcasters I've spoken to, because you grow as a podcast or any way and to reflect back and say, you know, at this point and I'm not sure how you're doing yours, but this kind of editorial content and weighing in on yourself or the other previous formats is I think I love it. I do. I mean, I'd love it for someone else. You know, people ask why I'm not doing it. And I'm like that nerve wracking, you know, looking older version of me. I'm always like who is she.

[00:34:29] I know right. Ha!

[00:34:33] I love the idea and the ones that I've listened to, there's nothing better than someone going back over their older work and giving you a latter day commentary on it. It's just a beautiful thing, particularly for me, for a female voice, because the female mind has always been so reflective in my life. I wanted to ask you about. We have a lot of people who write in, and because you're such a prolific podcast and you have such a like a wonderfully bird's eye view of everything, you have this PR background and things like that, sponsorship and partnership and all of these things, again, still very undocumented. I've spoken to a lot of people who have gone. I spoke with someone who had three episodes out of a podcast and immediately was acquired and she was on her history in PR and marketing. And she just started reaching out like with this ferocity, you know, and it was just responded to by these major conglomerates is with excitement. So there are people that want to do as such and at least receive some kind of compensation or partnering with people but don't know. How did you yourself how long did it take? Did you have you reached out? You have sponsorship or partnership? If so, how long did it take you to do it? And who advised you? How did you know how to reach out to. How did you find your applicable partners? How did all of that work?

[00:35:46] So I was podcasting well over a year before I started doing hosts read ads. So there were ads running on my show, but they weren't read by me.

[00:36:00] So that it wasn't about. It wasn't until about a year. And then I started doing that and they started coming my way. Actually, I had a agency come to me and want to represent me, and I was like, OK, we could do this. And so that's where I sort of started my introduction to it. But for me, I knew that there was potential to incorporate ads and to be able to generate revenue in that way. But it wasn't a focus of mine. And I think that that was beneficial because. It didn't make me alter my content early on to please a certain audience. You know, my ah, my content was already flowing. It was already in the vein that it was going to be in. Once these people came on board. And so it's like either you like what I'm doing and you want to be a part of it or you don't. And we would never have a conversation if you don't. Right. So it's fine. So for me, it was a very natural progression. But I do think that a lot of people start podcasting because they think that it's going to be a money maker. And I think the thing you have to realize is that the average podcasts and numbers have probably changed a little bit. But the average podcasts, let's just say you're somebody who starts a podcast. Nobody knows you. You're trying to build traction with this podcast. You're probably gonna get less than 200 people listening per episode. That's normal. And so many people see some of the larger podcasters and attraction that they have and they start podcasting thinking that that's where they should be going. That's what they should be aiming to do. But what you have to realize is sometimes people that come into this space who are able to do large numbers like that, either they've already been in the space in another way, showed up on another show, whatever, they have some history. They may be already have some type of celebrity or following some type of fan fair behind them, and they're able to transfer that over. So I say don't put pressure on yourself to get advertisers from the beginning because you want to make sure that you maintain the integrity of your show before you start looping other people into the conversation. Podcasting is a very intimate experience. We all know that it's just like you and this person. It feels very one on one. So before you start bringing in an advertiser and potentially tainting that relationship, you want to make sure that the listener has a chance to get to know you first before they start getting to know all these other brands that you're potentially working with. And that's just how I feel being on the indie side. I know when you go into a space where you get acquired by a larger network or things like that, you don't have as much say. So it's about the money. It's about the dollars. What how can we do numbers? How can we get more advertisers and. Right. So those are the things that you need to be mindful of as well as well. It's like where are you showing up in the podcasting space? Yes. And yet I kind of like my I don't answer your questions.

[00:39:05] It does. No, it does. And I think there's a lot there's a lot to explore there. And, you know, you can Google it and it comes up with kind of a bland stereotypical like here's how here's what you want, pictures which want to do. But I always like to encourage people as well to really think about the tradeoff.

[00:39:18] I am very protective, creative property, you know, and also ID if you know, if you have someone if you're going with them, there is these like as you kind of mentioned, I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but there's these kind of conglomerate agent type people that, you know, if you have a certain amount of listeners or you're in a certain genre, want to attach ads. But then you have to ask yourself whether or not you identify with those ads. I like you. I'm in a huge space with female film identified, not binary individuals. There's a lot of major companies that have A.I. rhetoric for trans communities. And, you know, my podcast was inadvertently attached to that. Then I would immediately not service that community. Or so you have to be a little bit more cognizant rather than just kind of looking for getting funding. You know, I think that it's hysterical. The idea of of of making money off of it is you probably not in the right game. I'd say play like the craps tables in Vegas before asking if you're looking for money, like that's your better odds are over there.

[00:40:15] Yeah. What we didn't touch on and what I should say is that in order to in order for a typical advertiser to be interested in you like the big box guys. Right. That it may lead the B to C, people like Casper Madres, all these different people we regularly see show up in the space. Right. Those people want you to have them. They do it by cost per thousand CPM. And that means that you have to have a minimum of, let's say, two thousand, not even 1000, let's say a minimum of two thousand people listening per episode. And what did I tell you before? Sometimes it's hard for most people to get two hundred people listening, let alone two thousand. And that's not to be negative. And it's not to bring you down and shoot your dreams down. It's just to say, let's be realistic. Realistically, this is what these people are looking for, because this is industry standard, if you will, even though it's the wild, wild West and it's what makes sense for them to try and get there are a wide. So you have to be mindful of what you bring to the table and what they're looking for you to bring to the table before you start trying to enter these conversations about potential advertising sponsors, because you might be getting in over your head if you do it too early, especially.

[00:41:34] Most definitely. And there's coaches, there's all sorts of things out there now for podcasters and things which again, I encourage people that invest heavily, you know, really look at people's background as much as they're going to be looking at yours and your numbers. Quickly switch over to talking about your most recent book. Before we run out of time. Quit playing small. Yes.

[00:41:57] There for people who are watching the vodcast. It's right there. We were talking you gave me like a little bread cart before we started recording. And you talked about the cover art. So I want to start with that. What is the story behind that?

[00:42:09] So I actually went to ninety nine designs and had this cover art drawn up.

[00:42:16] What I did was I found someone who creative projects similar to what the feel was that I wanted to go for. They had a little fun. They had a little creativity. But the thing that I think people think they can do, especially self publishing, this book is self published. This is my second book is self published. But I always knew from the very beginning that when you're self publishing, you want your book to be able to sit on the shelf next to a traditionally published book. And no one can tell the difference. That's what the goal is. So I knew with my cover, I wanted it to give a certain feel. I wanted it to pop. Had you ever been in a bookstore? Most of us don't go on bookstores as much anymore. Right. But if you're walking them out and you see something and it pops out to you and then you look at the back cover. Right. I knew that it needed to pop. I knew I didn't know anything about the color combination that I wanted or anything. I just gave the designer direct. I told him told her what projects that I like that she had done. And then I told her what kind of look and feel I was going for. And I also told her what the vibe was of the book. What type of content we were delivering. You have to sort of like basically give this background or what you're looking for the designer to create because you can't just say this is the name of my book, create something. You have to give them an idea of what the feeling is that you want the reader to have when they look at the book. This book is supposed to be for your morning routine. Right. Daily inspiration for your morning routine. When you look at this, I want you to feel happy. I don't want you to feel like home. I'm going to pick up that book off my nightstand. I want you to be excited, like, oh, look at this. These big red lips, it just gives me fire and energy. Let's go for the day. Where am I gonna flip to? That's how you want to look at it. And then you also want to be conscious of with a cup with the back cover, looks like as well. What's going to make it pop? Have your picture on it. Have a great picture. A really high resolution picture this side, the spine of the book as well. When this is on a shelf and you can't see the cover, is this still going to pop out to you at least enough to where it catches your eye a little bit? So all of these things are important when you're talking about the cover of a book. You can work your hardest and put the most amazing content in your book. But if the cover does not speak to people, nobody is going to open it and you want them to open it.

[00:44:49] Yes. Absolutely, and also I love that those pieces of information. It's so true. I mean, we haven't even talked about the kind of the core aspects of the book. And we've already climbed through like a great deal of the ethos of it. You know, I can kind of get a feel for all of it. It also strikes me, as you know, you've kind of zoned in on an audience with the art alone, whether or not you intended to. It feels directed towards my people, you know, feels it towards women of a certain caliber of a professional statue. Those types of things without even reading the verbiage, you know, the colors, the art, everything that you're talking about. It does speak to all of that I want to climb into. Well, when you were writing it. Who were you writing it for? What did you keep your audience in mind? And what are they like them? Five main key points. If you were forced to boil it down or are less than five that you want people to take away from it.

[00:45:37] So when I was writing it, I was definitely writing it for my switch, pivot or quick audience on that podcast we talk about, we ask guests about their morning routine. I've talked to them before about my morning routine. We talk about staying motivated and just things that are going to make you continue to go throughout this journey. We talk about the fact that our careers, our lives are a journey. Right. So I wanted to create something that would accompany people on that journey. It didn't have to be. This is the other thing. Like you guys may have figured out about me by now. I don't like the fluff. Right. I can't stand when you're reading a book and you're like this far in. And you still haven't gotten to the meat of what they're trying to tell you. It's like, no, I just give me the goods. Like, that's all I need. So I decided I want to create. I wanted to create something that would be able to kind of like smack people in the face, sometimes, lift them up other times. Tell them grow. Get it together sometimes. Give them a little hug. Other times, you know. So all of these entries are super, super short. Like, it's very, very, like approachable in the way that it's position. And that's because I also knew that my audience was ambitious women who are out there on the go trying to get things done. Sometimes their morning routine cannot consists of an entire hour. They may have fifteen minutes. And if they can spend two of those minutes reading something from this book, getting their mind right and getting them positively pushed in the right direction, then I did my job, you know. And so when it comes to like, what do I want them to walk away from this book with? I want them to walk away encouraged. I want them to walk away inspired. I want them to walk away feeling like they can. I want them to walk away understanding that a lot of this comes from what I've learned off of my journey. So you're not alone in the things that you're experiencing or even things that you're thinking. Right. So I just want them to feel like they're a part of a community and that somebody gets what's happening with them.

[00:47:48] Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that. It's I mean, how could anyone not want that? You know, I do love the concise. I do. I get very into these, like, grabby. You know, I do like the novel as well. But I think that right now, especially for that genre, you know, getting these really quick tidbits of like empowerment and structure and just things to kind of set the intention for the day and really requestion and reorganize like you're talking about is amazing. I want to turn now really quickly to. You have so many things that you've done thus far. And so I love asking people, particularly of your candor, because I'm curious as to what the next one to three years do. You look at your life that way? Do you. Do you put it in form of format? Do you do vision boards? Do you just say forget it? I'm taking it as it comes. How do you set up your goals and what do those goals look like for you?

[00:48:37] You know, I wish I could tell you guys that I'm more of this goal oriented person that just breaks everything down and goes, what? I do write things down and I do write some goals down. And I have an awareness of what I want and where I want to go. But I don't dwell on it. I don't stress myself out about it. So for me, a lot of I have those goals and those things that I identify with. A lot of it is. I just have faith that I'm gonna be OK, that things are going to work out in my favor. I say every morning I got this from Jen and Cheryl. I say I receive all the good that life has to offer me. That is how I move. So I feel like if I'm moving in, that space is really is it is really hard for a ton of bad things to just be, you know, and I and I'm going I don't have the time to let my mind swirl and worry about what's not going right and what's not happening. It's like, let me focus on the positive. And in the back of my mind, having an idea of where I want to go with things. So for me, I want to continue to build amazing media. That's something that I know. But I'm even pivoting in the way that I'm structuring mazy media, in the way that I'm going about doing the work that I do with Mazey media. But the only way that you can pivot is if you start somewhere. I had to get started in order to see some things that I would potentially want to do different. So I'm a big person that loves I'm big on action, I should say. So I think that's why sometimes I don't get stuck on the goals in writing everything down and all this stuff because I'm too busy doing I'm doing well all the time. Somebody else is set their thought about a vision, board it, it and everything else. I'm done. And I now I figured out what works and what doesn't work. Right. So sometimes I think we can hold ourselves back and we can play small when we try and do too much planning. Right. So for me, that's one of my big goals, is expanding mazy media and really digging more into the corporate side, because I think that there's a lot of conversations that can be had over there that are not being had internally. So I'm digging way more into that now, working with corporations, a lot more to develop conversations via a podcast. And I'm also working with more original content now, working on developing a lot more original content for the mazing media platform. And when I say original content content that has come from within the company and not outside the company, somebody bringing it to us saying, hey, we want to see if you would want to, you know, help us produce the show that we're already producing. And then I'm also working on just speaking of quit playing smart, there's going to be a podcast for this. There's going to be a podcast for this with quick doses of inspiration. So I'm working on that as well. That'll come toward the end of the year. And I'm just working on obviously just trying to be the best version of myself. That's what I'm always trying to do. And I feel like as long as I'm working on being the best version of myself, nothing but goodness is going to come from that or as a result of that, absolutely good intention to the light of enlightenment.

[00:51:44] I love it. All right. So we're fine. We're wrapping up at my final question. Ask every guest, and I can always ask you, because you're your last book was based on advice. And so I'm wondering if you walked up to someone in a safe so so distance in a Gardiner Park tomorrow. And for the sake of this question, it's a female woman identified or non binary individual. And they said, listen, I'm so glad I found you. We have a friendship of a mutual friend in common. She's recommended I talk to you. I've had this prolific career and I had, you know, a side hustle that did very well as well. And I've decided that even though both of them are going swimmingly, I was going to pivot and go on into. I've started writing a book and doing these things, but I really want to just change into true answering of my happiness and kind of developed my kingdom within that. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual? Knowing what you know now?

[00:52:37] That's a great question, I would say. One thing that I have learned and that I share with people at the end of the quit playing small workshops that I do. Is your greatest success, Lives behind your greatest fear.

[00:52:53] And I realize that I learned that because the things that I may have been intimidated to try or to do, those are some of the things that have made me felt feel the most proud and have given me like the most boost in my person and feeling like, wow, you're really doing something. You know, you're really making some kind of headway or making some type of difference. So I would say that. I would say. Really start to know and understand yourself, because when you know and understand yourself, it's easier for you to make decisions. It's easier for you to identify where you're going and where you want to go. Just like what we talked about before, having these goals and winding down and all of that stuff. If you don't know yourself, the goals that you identify may not be in alignment with who you are and what you're truly capable of achieving. So I would say really start to explore and get to know yourself. And then finally, I would say. Back away from the comparison game because nobody else has lived this life before you. You are the first to do it. You are uniquely in only you. So who are you comparing yourself to realistically? This person that you maybe compare yourself to or these people you don't know their background. You don't know their history. You don't know their story. You don't even know what lies ahead of them. So if you really thought about it your while you're sitting here comparing yourself to them, would you really want to change positions with them? I wouldn't I wouldn't, you know, so I think so many of us get caught up in. I want to do this or I think I want to do a version of this. And so until I was over here doing it and it looks great while they're doing it, so maybe I should try and do like them. And then when I try and do like them, I'm not getting the results that they're getting. My results don't look like their results do. I'm a failure. No, your you your results look perfect for you. You actually have nobody to compare to because there isn't another Aiyana Angel who live this life 100 years before me. And I'm comparing myself to what she did back then. No. Just doesn't exist. It's not realistic. So that's what I would share with someone who walked up to me six feet away and asked me that question.

[00:55:30] And I love your last point because it speaks so much in the face of this whole, like, competition value culture that we have, which, you know, you got to you have the best competition.

[00:55:39] Who's your next competition? Who you fighting against this idea of like. OK. So really quickly, I have your greatest success lives behind your greatest fear. Number one, which I love. I think that that one can sit on so many different planes with so many different areas of one's life.

[00:55:54] Number two, know and understand yourself.

[00:55:57] It will create fluidity between your reality and your desires. So truly knowing and understanding yourself. And number three, back away from the comparison game.

[00:56:06] Absolutely awesome. I love those so much. I know we are out of time, but I wanted to say I know you're horrifically busy and beautifully busy at the same time.

[00:56:15] So grateful that you took the time to sit down with us. You have your own thing going on your own podcast. I want everyone to attach themselves to that. Have a listen to several episodes at the very least, and check out your books really quickly. Will you give us the name of both of those?

[00:56:33] Absolutely. Thank you so much Patricia for having me. This has been a great conversation. Great. In that your questions were just so thoughtful. So thank you. Everybody can find me at Yana Angel dot com and that she's h why I a in a angel dot com. My very first book, the one that talked about early on, was a novel and it's called Preseason Love. And my second book, which I self published, is called Quit Playing Small and it's available on Amazon everywhere now. And be sure to check out the switch, pivot, a quick podcast. And if you are on Instagram, you can follow me at a Yanta Dot Angel on Instagram. I tend to hang out there. We go live sometimes and I just talk my talk and do my thing. So hang out with me.

[00:57:21] And for everyone listening. Thank you so much for giving me your time today. I really do appreciate all of you. We've been speaking with Ahyiana Angel. She's founder, podcast and author and another one of her Web sites, W WW, Dutch Switch, Pivot or quits. All of the others that she mentioned as well.

[00:57:37] Thank you for giving us your time today. And until we speak again, remember, just stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am speaking with Louisa Deasey. Louisa is a twice-published bestselling memoirist, editor and non-fiction writing coach. Over the past twenty years, Louisa has worked as a magazine editor and features journalist, ghostwriter, newspaper columnist, digital copywriter, online editor and media and publicity consultant to major brands, personalities and experts in the health, travel, lifestyle, design, medicine and psychology space.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with Best-Selling, memoirist, editor and nonfiction writing coach Louisa Deasey key points addressed where Louisa's incredible journey throughout writing her first memoir titled Love and Other U Turns. We also looked at these self-taught and honed education and subsequent skill set that Louisa developed in order to write her following and Best-Selling memoir titled A Letter from Paris. We also examine how Louisa used her education and self-taught knowledge in order to develop her online memoir, a nonfiction publishing programs that she now offers online. Stay tuned for my enthralling interview with Louisa Deasey.

[00:00:44] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status. For industry, we aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:42] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Louisa. Deasey Louisa is a Best-Selling memoirist, editor and nonfiction writing coach. You can find more about all of her work as well as the services she offers on her web. W w w dot. Louisa Deasey. Dot com. That is l o u i. S a d. A s. E y. Dot com. Welcome, Louisa.

[00:02:09] Hello. Thanks for having me.

[00:02:10] Absolutely. I'm excited to climb through everything that you're doing. We were talking off the air and I told you that we've had a lot of audience and listeners right in over the years and talk about writing coaches and people who can advise about writing rules a great deal in our past. I know that everything that you share with us today is going to be received in the highest regard. Oh, that's good to know. Absolutely. For everyone listening who is new to the podcast, I'll offer up a quick roadmap of the direction of my inquiry's will head. And then I will read a bio on the so that everyone can garner a brief sense of her background before I start peppering her with questions. So the roadmap for today's podcast will first look at Louise's academic and professional background, leading her up to the services that we will then unpack. Then I will turn towards, of course, unpacking Louise's suite of online memoir, a nonfiction publishing programs, where I know a few of those are currently being used up and changed a bit. Then we'll look at unpacking the goals that Louisa has for the next one to three years, professionally and personally. Those have changed a lot for a lot of people in regards to the current climate of the Kovik 19 pandemic. And then we'll wrap the entire Adva podcast up with advice that Louisa may have for those of you who are looking to get involved with some of her services or perhaps emulate some of her career success. A quick bio, as promised on Louisa. Before I start peppering her with questions, Louisa Deaseyis a twice published bestselling memoir list editor and nonfiction writing coach. Over the past 20 years, Louisa has worked as a magazine editor and features journalist, ghost writer, newspaper columnist, digital copywriter, online editor and media and publicity consultant to major brands, personalities and experts in the health, travel, lifestyle, design, medicine and psychology space. More recently, Louisa has created a suite of online memoir and nonfiction publishing programs for writers at every stage of the publishing journey. Her work has been featured in Vogue Body and Soul, The Guardian, Cosmopolitan, The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and Hundreds More Publications. She is currently at work on her third memoir. So, Louise, I cannot wait to unpack a lot of that with you. I'm excited. I haven't had anyone who actually self identifies as a memoirist on and I cannot wait to climb into that with you. I find it such a valid and noble profession. But before we get to that, I'm hoping that you can describe for all of our audience members listening and those watching on a vodcast a little bit about your academic and professional background leading up to where you are now.

[00:04:51] Sure. So. Well, I went to high school, which is pretty normal here in Australia. Then I took a year off and just worked. I lived in a share house and I worked and I did a few little short courses in acting and drama. And then I started an arts degree, which I think it's the same in the US liberal arts. I thought I wanted to do drama and acting. I can't believe I've never even noticed how much I loved writing. But it wasn't until I was in my third year of my arts degree that I realized I actually loved writing about the place that I was studying rather than being in them because I didn't really like people looking at me. So I had a bit of a switch and I ended up doing a double degree in literature because I'd accidentally taken on too many drama subjects before I realized that I didn't really want to do that. And then because I realize sort of it took three years of writing essays for me to realize that I actually love that part of studying. I applied for a really well at that time. It was really prestigious writing postgrad writing degree in Melbourne. And I thought I didn't get in because I looked in the newspaper on the wrong day. So I applied to work on a cruise ship because I thought, well, look, I will just travel the world and write about that, you know, Harry instead. And I literally made it through to the third round of interviews for this job. Crystal Cruises or whatever it was. When my aunt called me and said, congratulations, I just saw your name in the paper for the riding college. So I had actually got in. So I had to cancel that at the last minute. And I started this writing postgraduates. To you, to you, that's called Tife. I'm not sure what that is in the US, but it's more hands on than university. And the whole reason that that's cause it was RMIT, which is Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, professional writing and editing. And I think the reason that it was so highly regarded was because the teachers in the. It wasn't academic. It wasn't philosophical. It was actual hands on how to get published, which, you know, I don't know. That was just sort of the Holy Grail when I was at university, nor one, you know, they talk about writing and publishing, but no one could actually tell you how to get published. Yeah, it did. I started that course. And I loved it. But I ended up being quite disappointed because it wasn't all that it was sold to me to be. And I sort of thought, wow, well, look, this is one of the best publishing courses in Australia, even though it's not very good. And I got a lot of sort of the wrong advice in that course.

[00:07:45] And I ended up sort of staking out a lot of stuff on my own. And remember, this is before the Internet was, you know, the Internet existed, but it wasn't big. It's 2001. And part of the costs was a topic called industry overview. And we needed to do a few hours. So I think it was two weeks on site at a publishing company. So other a newspaper or a book or magazine publishing company and all that that caused told me to contact with these tiny little publisher in Melbourne and see if I could get a couple of weeks unpaid work there. And I didn't want to work at that tiny little publisher. That just sounded miserable. And I didn't want to work that. I wanted to work for magazines at that time. That was my passion. And all the magazines, all the women's magazines, offices were in Sydney. So I bought a copy of the reader's marketplace, which was like this like fifty five dollars an hour. Remember, saving up my waitressing money and buying it and just going through the list of phone numbers and calling every single women's magazine until I could get someone that would take me on for a couple of weeks work. And then I went back to RMIT and I said, OK, I've got two weeks at Elle magazine, I've got two weeks at Bay magazine. And they were like, what are you talking about? They don't take interns. And that's it.

[00:09:01] Yeah, they do. I just tend to call fifty so fifty seven times.

[00:09:06] And then so I flew up to Sydney and did that and that was I guess you'd say I was off to the races because I got my first byline in that work and I'm sort of simplifying it now. But that really taught me that, you know, I just there's only so much that you can learn at university and and time. You know, you really have to do it yourself in a lot of ways. And the other thing is the people that are teaching you often, there's a reason that they are teaching, you know, that they've obviously had their career or they're having a break or so. I just found a real gap between what I was being taught and what I really wanted to do. And I learned so much as soon as I actually started working in, like I think it was the following year, I got my first job at a newspaper back in Melbourne and I learned more about writing for publication in a week. They have had it five years at university. Yeah, it was just really interesting to me. The gap between academic learning and actual actually being inside a newspaper or magazine office.

[00:10:14] Yeah. In the States, we call that on the job training. Oh, T.J.. Yeah.

[00:10:20] Yeah. And I think it's so true, though.

[00:10:23] I mean, I can't say it enough and I'm a big I'm really big on internships or any type of apprenticeship, things of that nature. There are so many fields that I think do this as well. Computer I'm married to an original Silicon Valley computer nerd. A lot of people asking to me know that. And the most hysterical thing for me, and I think it might be changing right now, but it's not nearly quickly enough.

[00:10:48] Computer programing, as studied in university, has absolutely nothing to do with the code that is written that affects you die and changes the range. They are very likely ayari. And that's the same thing with writing. I think you're right in literature and all of my university degrees. And what I love about university is that you do study philosophy and theory, but there's absolutely no practicality. There's no applicability in that knowledge. And I think that writing is a crucial one. And I think your story also brings up a really interesting point, which I've always described. There's a certain amount of entrepreneurship, even to the writers of old to going Artley, Walden, you know, all of those things. That is a very kind of like gusto, greedy. And I think that people leave that out when they talk about writers, you know, and what it's really necessary to be a writer and successful. You running off to city, you calling fifty seven times.

[00:11:44] I would have been more than that, but yeah, it's so interesting that you say that I have all of this. I have all three of Steven Pressfield books. Have you read the war of arson, Tony? And I love I love these books and hate. I love. I think it's in the war about. He says, find you. You know, there's nothing braver and more entrepreneurial than sitting at a blank screen and, you know, trying to put your heart out there and in a way that's palatable for the world to rageous story. He says, find yourself an entrepreneur to chat to for some motivation. I know why that is so true, because it's very similar. You're putting yourself out there. You trying something that's never been done before? Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with you there.

[00:12:30] And you have to have a certain amount. It's it's a crazy tightrope for.

[00:12:34] Right. For authors. I find you have to care deeply about your audience, but you also have to have this kind of devil may care genessee quar about like I'm just going to put it out there. I don't care what anyone says, like, here it is. Here's me, you know, because if you worry too much, you don't release it. You don't put it out. And if you if you don't worry enough that you're not capturing your audience in the way that you ought to. You know, this is kind of given take is so difficult. I'm wondering, how did your career after you kind of launched into doing all of these, you got your first byline from this, you know, very greedy, like something tiny. Yeah. So how did that kind of launch into did you start to pepper into taste as to know which areas of writing you were most suited towards? How did you find, like, your memoir this moment?

[00:13:20] Well, it's so funny because I didn't actually know that I loved memoir until a few years ago. But I say that, you know, I've simplified it a lot. But I you know, I went to Sydney. That was actually a six month process when I was working, interning, trying to get a job, a paid job, because I was working like 40 hours a week at a restaurant in Corkle by Sydney while I was doing days unpaid at these offices. And my Driton, the thing was back then, because it wasn't there was no you know, the Internet wasn't as big as it is now. You had to actually be working on staff to say the stop job ads in Pacific publications and all of those places. And nothing came up in the times that I was there. And I made some contacts and I was like, can you please let me know if something comes up? And I ended up running out of money and just being exhausted because I was working so much because Sydney is so expensive. I came back to Melbourne and got a waitressing job here in Melbourne and then just started sending out because again, no Internet sending out kulla photocopied packs of my tiny little byline. So I think by then I had had a review of a film, an essay, a first person essay, which is Memoir in Runner's World. So I used to run quite a lot. And maybe one other thing and. Oh yeah, quiz. I had a quiz published in Playboy magazine and I would send out these color coordinated packs and that must've cost me so much money because it was all my past. And eventually I got a job. I think it was eight or nine months later at the Herald Sun, which is our major daily newspaper. And I actually had a hiring freeze on at the time, which I didn't know. But now I'm glad I didn't come after got the job there. And that was fantastic. That was a baptism of fire. And I got mobile ones there. And what I found that I really enjoyed writing about was health and wellbeing and psychology, because I think I knew the health editor from school and she'd said, if you want to write a couple of columns, you can do that. And just a bit like you. I loved interviewing people. So I think one of my first articles was on iron deficiency or something, and I had to find a medical expert to interview on why women have less often than men typically. Well, something like that. And I just love the whole process of putting together a story and formulating the argument, getting experts to give you information. That's something. And I'd seen in my time at the magazine offices that freelancers, you know, that you could freelance the health magazines or women's magazines on health topics and get paid quite well. I think in feature articles, this is still when we have print. But, you know, people read print, so you'd get maybe a thousand dollars for a health feature. So I made it my goal to to make a living writing health features and psychology features. There's a magazine in Australia called Good Medicine, and I pitched to them. I just pitched lots of articles and I'm still waitressing. And then I eventually quit the Herald Sun because I didn't want to do news journalism. I found it quite. I really couldn't. I just couldn't handle it. I was there when the Bali bombings happened, which was a major news story here in Australia because Bali is so close to Australia. And yet I just I couldn't take it. I'm not I'm not cut out for news journalism. So I'm trying to fast forward, so after that, I started freelancing, I loved writing about health and psychology. I loved interviewing people at sort of the same as, you know, it just it felt feels like such a privilege when people opened up their lives to you. And, yeah, it's very mutually inspiring. And I, I find the whole process of interviewing very interesting. I think I was working for an architecture magazine and I interviewed this architect and I could see him actually transforming in front of my eyes when I was interviewing him because he was he was considering something he'd never considered before just because of the way I'd framed the question. And I've always found that really interesting. So then miraculously and I'm making it sound quick. But this took a few years. I've gathered enough work to actually just be living off my freelancing. So I no longer needed to waitress. And I met this comedian who he lived out of his car and he excellente basically just performed in outback rough pubs around Australia. And I fell in love with him really quickly and basically moved him to his car because I was like, well, I can write from anywhere. And at that point, I was making enough money and it was just a huge adventure. And so I went traveling with him for about a year. And that was sort of when my career took off in terms of freelancing. So it was quite strange. I got all these weekly columns, fashion columns. Would you believe in a in another newspaper called The Age? And I was traveling with him through these really, really rough redneck sort of places and having to write sometimes from the front seat of the car or lack of a room at the back of the pub. And eventually I came back to Melbourne because, yeah, I couldn't I could only leave out of the car for so long. I missed Melbourne. And I'd always thought, like, I sort of thought, well, wait, I'm always looking for the next thing. And I sort of thought, well, the only thing that is left for me now is to write a book, because I had been freelancing at that point for two or three years, I think, which I loved. But I just wanted to do something bigger. And I always wanted to write a book. And I think I was getting close to 30 years old and I didn't. It's those those significant voices that make you sort of think, oh, yeah, I've got to do that thing that I always said I'd do. So I started writing a book about traveling around Australia with GM, which was a memoir travel memoir, because I always loved reading travel memoirs as well. Mm hmm. And long story short, and I sort of talk about this a lot in a lot of my memoir, blogs and trainings and things. But, you know, it took I didn't know how to write a book. Crooner's knows how to read a book when they stop. And I had a really, really. So I had a few really fortuitous connections. A woman on the street introduced me to her literary agent, like who was one of the top literary agents in Australia. That was a very amazing fluke. But I also had the most brutal rejection that you could actually imagine. One of the top publishers in Australia, a great arrange to meet with me. She contacted my agent. She said she'd been reading my manuscript. She agreed to meet with me at a cafe and she flying down to Melbourne from Sydney. And I thought, wow, she's going to offer me a book deal. And I told my family, my friends, and after an hour of her telling me how bad my writing was, why I'd never be published, I had to actually say, well, I might go now.

[00:20:48] Yeah, what a malicious moment.

[00:20:51] It was pretty awful. It was really awful. It took me six months to get over that. I couldn't even look at the manuscript. I was just humiliated, absolutely humiliated.

[00:21:00] Well, at that point, I wonder, looking back now that you have success under your belt, what was the point of her make going to such effort?

[00:21:08] Well, this is a thing I didn't know at the time. You know, I was so naive, which I sort of think you have to be to get anything done. It took another year when I did actually sign the book deal for that book. And I met with my new publisher and she gave me the background to that particular person and said, you know, she's she's been put on on leave for bullying. She's got a mental disorder and various other things. And I was like, oh, my God, because I never I thought I would go to the grave without knowing why she had flown down to basically put me down for an hour in a cafe.

[00:21:50] The power hierarchy in publishing is ridiculous. I mean, it's all right up there with my mother, most antiquated, you know, DHT and subject kind of. Ships that happen. And I is I am excited about it being overturned and we can get into this later.

[00:22:04] I've spoken to a lot of authors that self publish because that did this system, it was abusive at its finest.

[00:22:11] So abusive. I'm wondering, are you describing the beginnings of love in other U turns? Yes. Yeah. Oh, my God. That book was published. Yeah. So after I got over the brutal rejection and everything.

[00:22:25] I actually rewrote the book and then pitched it on a cold pitch Friday. And it was like she called the publisher, called me on the cheese day and offered me a book deal and I just cried. And it was published, I think, six months after that, which is pretty quick in publishing, really fast.

[00:22:42] What caused you to, like, finally kind of regroup after six months from your lashing and think. No, no, this is good. I know so many people that would abandon a piece of work with that kind of abusive moment in their life. You know, it doesn't. I would have abandoned it.

[00:22:56] And yet, my friend Dave. He's no longer alive. I ran into him just on the straight and. Hey, hey. I'd gone to school together and he was there. And the other student who studied literature in our country, high school, and he was a good four A's, like a sole friend. You know, I hadn't seen him for about five years. And I ran into him on the street and just said I said I wrote a book. But it got no love lost or something. And, you know, I just vaguely told him the story, but I was still crushed. And he said, you wrote a book, you write, you actually finished it.

[00:23:28] You got to pick it up.

[00:23:29] And he was determined. He took it on like it was on him. But I get that book back to a publisher. And if it hadn't been for him so passionate about getting me. And he looked at it and gave me feedback and he was like, you need to stop the story here. And he was so passionate. And he was actually dying of liver cancer at the time. And he passed away before that book was published. He was only thirty two, but if it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't picked it up. But he was just so determined like you wrote it and you finished it. You can't just chuck it out. And I think about that now. And I think that's how I want to be for other people, because it is I think it's just it's a tragedy when people get so crushed by rejection that they just put it away. And I've seen that happen. And it's.

[00:24:18] It takes a long time to finish a book. It really does. Just labor.

[00:24:23] And bless Dave for knowing that, you know. Yes. You, too. I think you're right. I think voices of encouragement are so necessary. People don't realize, I think, how important that they can be, you know, from outside. So after you had your initial success, did you immediately catapult you into a letter from Paris or did you take some time? How did that play out, the aftermath of success?

[00:24:50] No, sir. This is sort of a complicated I mean. Yeah. So the book so I love another U-turn came out.

[00:24:59] It was a very odd time in my life because my mom died at the same time.

[00:25:06] And also publishing had switched completely online. So everything that I used to do for money, which was pitch FHA radicals, I went down from first the word count stopped. So we went from a nineteen hundred word FHA to 700 words. So that means if you getting paid by the word, you're now getting three hundred and fifty dollars where you used to get twelve hundred. So it just became less and less. It was harder and harder to live off freelancing. And I knew that I had to retrain in the digital world, but I had no idea where to start because, you know, and a lot of people that I had worked at the Herald Sun with or had who'd been freelance journalist or had been journalists, it was a really hard time. Everyone was like, you know, they just suddenly lost their jobs. I know a woman who started a funeral home after losing her 20 year job, you know, in this type of some editing, because she was like, well, that's never going to you know, there's always gonna be a need for a funeral home. Yeah, but I sort of and I saw some of the bloggers coming up, and I think Sarah Wilson had just started blogging in Australia. She's the I quit sugar lady. And I could say that some of these people were really taking on the digital world and harnessing that. But I have no idea where to start. Like, I'm such an on tech savvy person, like, you know, and I didn't know anyone who did it. And I ended up taking this. And the thing was, my book came out and I talk about this a bit later, but I had no idea what I should have done when that book came out to really make it a success. So a lot of people don't know when a book comes out. You know, you basically get three months, if you're lucky of time, chop shop shelf space. Yeah. And you've got to do with many interviews, as much publicity as you possibly can. I had like a website that was stuck in the 1970s. I had to ask people to actually update it for me because it was all hyped, humoral card. I didn't even know I couldn't even update my website, wasn't even a word press or anything was on some something that I don't even know. Yeah. So, yeah, I was really shocked. The book came out and it sold a few copies and then by October that year it was like I'd never done anything and I was starting from scratch again. And so I was really crushed, actually. It was quite depressing because I sort of thought, well, I spent so low on this book and, you know, these are these things that people don't tell you about publishing, but you need to be stuck thinking a year ahead. You need to be doing your publicity count down. And then this is the full podcasts really were a thing as well. And I do do a lot of radio interviews, but. But because I did I had this weakness in the tech sphere.

[00:28:05] I didn't have a good website. I didn't know how to how to set up a blog. I yeah, I didn't know how to do any of that. I basically went back and got a corporate job at an accounting company because they would take they taught me how to do web editing. And I had to use like six different content management systems.

[00:28:25] And I learned a lot. But it was the most boring job I've ever had.

[00:28:31] Yeah.

[00:28:32] Yeah. But, you know, I just I needed to get a job and I needed to learn how to use the Internet, you know, digital publishing. And so I was sending out seven weekly tax newsletters at these incredibly boring job. I don't think I really lasted like three months. That got I learned a lot. And then I went to Byron Bay because, as I said, my mum had died not long. You know, maybe a year and a half earlier. And I still very, very wounded from that. So I sort of packed up all of my things and moved to Byron Bay and just sort of lived in this shed that overlooks the forest, which didn't cost very much money and started writing digital copywriting. So I, I transferred the skills that I've been doing as a journalist to that and got quite a lot of stuff published. The only difference is your byline isn't on it when it's copyrighting. And at that point, I started writing a fiction novel. Sorry, this is such a long winded way now.

[00:29:33] Love. Yeah.

[00:29:36] So I started writing a fiction novel because I thought that was the other thing. So publishing a memoir. It was actually also quite a bizarre psychological process when Love another U-turn came out, because, as I said, my mum had just died and I was doing all these interviews based on the person that I was when I wrote Love of a U-turn. So it's all these free wheeling and it's a quite a funny book. Quick. It's it's all about the wackiness of outback towns and how I liked not having many possessions and just living out a car. Banks are free in Australia, but after my mum died, I, I really changed. My character changed. I think everyone loses a parent without changing a lot. And so it was quite hard doing those interviews and trying to be all cheery and promote that book when I had changed so dramatically. So I thought, well, gee, I don't think I can write in another memoir because it's just so personal and, you know, people are asking me about my relationship with Jim when really. And saying, you know, your mom must be your parents must be so proud of you. And I hadn't even properly grieved. And it was all just was really hard. It's it's very hard for me writing a memoir because it is so personal and you need to have a lot of. Not protective, but you need to know what you're doing. And I didn't know what I was doing. I hadn't. I didn't really know anyone else who published a book. I though the lady on the street who'd interviewed, introduced me to the literary agent had sent me some great advice. But aside from that, you know, I there were no writing coaches at that point. There were. Yes. So I moved to Byron Bay and I started working on a fiction novel, which was sort of a thinly veiled fiction. It was about trauma and grief and processing, sort of what I was processing. And the only way I could write it was to make it a fiction, even though it really wasn't. It was all just a metaphor. And then I sort of did what I needed to do in Byron Bay. And I came back to Melbourne about a year later. And, yeah, just just went back to work. And I was pitching that fiction novel around. I ended up going to the US, going to this incredible writer's retreat because I wanted to get it to a publisher in the US because I thought, well, the reason my book Eleven of a U-turn wasn't a success is because it was only published in Australia. That's such a small market here. But that didn't really eventuate. And then that book was sort of messy. And I think I really didn't. I'm not supposed to write fiction. It's not. I didn't have the genre right. I didn't even know if it was a thriller or a romance or what or like a supernatural. It was just it was a bit of everything. That book was kind of my therapy writing that.

[00:32:32] Well, yeah, it sounds cathartic. Maybe maybe not being published in any way.

[00:32:40] And so I came back to Melbourne and I just got lots of different jobs editing and ended up working in media, sort of media training and marketing for Melbourne University, which is really big. But it's I think it's one of our biggest universities. And I loved that job. And, you know, I really just threw myself into my work and thought, you know, like a cat published a book. But I'm probably never gonna do that again, even though I wanted to. I sort of stuffed that down because I'd been so disappointed with what happened with love. Another U turns anyway. Long story short. I had just finished a year working at Melbourne Uni and I'd quit because of something really awful that happened there. We've with this boss and I received this email from a woman in Paris about my father. And so my dad died when I was very young. And she said our grandmother died yesterday. And in her apartment, we found a stack of letters written in nineteen forty nine about a man named Dennis in Deasey Are you any relation? Is he your grandfather? And that was my dad. And I said, well, I wrote because this was on Facebook Messenger. She contacted me and I said, nineteen forty nine. That's right. So she was telling me he'd been in London. I didn't know any of this stuff about my dad. I didn't know that he'd been in London when he'd he'd been to France. I knew that he'd had a French wife, but I didn't really know when or how or how that had connected. And basically, as soon as she started e-mailing me and she sent me all of these translations of the French letters that her grandmother had written and she said, you know, grandmother was talking about your father until the day she died. And they actually sent me a recording of her in the hospital talking about my death. And this had been 36 years since he died. And I just couldn't. It was all a bit crazy. And I remember thinking in the pit of my stomach, if I'm going to have to write another book.

[00:34:54] I just I was like, man, but I've done it.

[00:34:57] And it was so hard. Yeah.

[00:35:00] And I think this is sort of where why and where the whole memoir coaching and the courses that I do now, where it will come from. Because at that time as well, a good friend of mine, she'd won a competition, a writing competition for a piece of memoir she'd written about running away from. So she her dad was a Vietnam vet and had very serious PTSD. And so she and her siblings and her mom had had to run away from home because he was very violent. And she'd want to competition for this pace. And long story short, that led to her publishing contract for that book. But she'd never published a book before either. And I saw her going through everything that I'd gone through with Love, another U-turn. So she didn't know that she would have to organize the launch event and do as much public. She felt the publisher was going to do everything. You know, she she really didn't know anything about the promotion. She was really upset and kind of stressed and. Yeah, that sort of thing. And so, like, I sort of took it on myself to try and educate her for what she should be doing up to the launch and that sort of thing. And then. Yeah, we just talked a lot through through the launch of her book and everything. And that was when. I was working on a letter from Paris, but I was determined that I would not write the book the same way that I did love another U-turn. So I didn't want to write the whole manuscript and then stop pitching it. I was like, I need a deadline. I need an FUC advance. I need you to pull this stuff. So I was really, really strategic, which I'd never been before. And I pitched, I wrote, I got things published. I used that to leverage publishers interest, which then led to a documentary. There's a show in Australia called Australian Story, which is documentaries of I don't know if you've ever seen it. I have. OK. Well, one of the producers of from Australian Story contacted me about this story about my dad, which I've been how to make. Leveraged into the contract for a letter from Paris. Because I really want to. Yeah, yeah. And I'm shortening it. There are a lot of very stressful phone calls and emails. But I was determined that I would have a deadline and a contract before I sat down to write that book. So I worked on a letter from Paris. And it was it was a bestseller when it came out in Australia two years ago and it's still been up and down a bestseller here, and it's come out in the UK and the US and Canada as well. But the reason that I'm sharing that isn't too advanced. It's because I was very, very specific and determined and strategic in everything that I did with Boris. How I pitched the book, how I avoid it to how it was published. How I went to the editor, what I did pray, publicity, all of that sort of thing, because I had had such a bruising experience with love and other unions. And the thing is, most people don't get a second chance to write a memoir or publish a memoir. So I was very lucky. But this is what led me to create these courses. And so the coaching that I do with authors is because what I saw I saw what happened with my friend Bruce. I know what happened with me. And so many people think the story's over when you sign that book to Sharon. And I know what you're saying about self publishing as well. If you actually if you want a lucrative publishing contract, self publishing is the way to go. And if you've already got a platform and you've already got an audience, you might be better off self publishing. But for a lot of people, like it was to me, you want to be traditionally published because that's, you know, this it's pretty amazing to have the backing of a traditional publisher. And it's you know, it's one of those dreams you want to be published by a publisher. And, you know, they do things that. I mean, just the quality of working with the editors on a letter from Paris taught me so much that I would have learned if I'd, you know, I would never of self publish that book anyway, because it's too important to me that it be produced in a really quality, beautiful. I just really wanted it to be traditionally published, but I understand that a lot of people. If if the purpose is to make money, then I would say sure. So publish or even spade, if you want to be speedy.

[00:39:55] No. And I also think there's a great deal more to be learned. I think both processes have education.

[00:40:00] But certainly the old still old school, there was, you know, a valid moment in that two to be had. And I think that there is there's a great mystique. It's just like academia. It's just like any race. You know, there is still a great deal of pride that one should take out of executing those systems. And it sounds like, you know, your qualifications. What I love about the difficulty in this journey that you've just unraveled for us is that you couldn't come from a more qualified source, you know, to have love another U. Turns and then a letter from Paris and and being on this bestseller, you know, international list is amazing. And I love. I don't really trust teachers that haven't had some kind of a struggle.

[00:40:46] Well, that was the thing.

[00:40:47] That was the thing with me and I, you know, and that was what made me so angry, actually, when I was at uni was none of those teachers had been published. And I was like, what do you know, except for, you know, bizarre academic journals. But I was like, but I want to see your book in a shop.

[00:41:03] Yes.

[00:41:04] And I want to hear the story. The difficulties are, you know. Yes. This horrible moment of someone flying from Sydney to kind of train crash you until this friend uplifted you and all of that back and forth.

[00:41:15] And yet I'm wondering. So we're getting to your Web site and kind of crawling through the suite of online services that you have. Can you kind of crawl? Anyone who hasn't visited your Web site yet or knows anything about it? What are the different services that you offer your clients?

[00:41:34] So it's it's funny that we're doing this podcast now because I'm actually raised configuring a few things because what I've realized. So I always wanted to offer memoir coaching and courses to show someone step by step how to write a memoir, because I know how overwhelming, how overwhelmed I felt at the beginning of a letter from Paris. I was like, how do I even put the sample chapters together for a publisher? How do I know? Because it's such a personal thing. You write, it's so overwhelming to go well, how do I, you know, jump into my entire life story and pick out the most relevant or interesting peso's to this story. And so I sort of came up with a process and a method for that finding the quote which know most storytelling. You would find the same with documentaries. You finding a hook, you finding where the story actually begins like that is more crucial than anything. You're finding the universal themes, finding the they really unique personal aspects to the universal themes. So I'm always sort of obsessed with finding like creating a mathematical or strategic formula to something to make it less overwhelming. So I originally started I created a course called Memory Academy, which was a six month step by step course for writing your memoir and getting it ready for a publisher. And I've had a few people take that course and I realized that it sort of needs to be three courses because it's very layers. There's three layers to writing and publishing a memoir is the actual writing of it, which anyone can can do. I love writing and craft is really fun to study. Yeah. Great to sit in your room and write a memoir. And this is something that I noticed with my students who took the program last year, which I'm really doing is if I hadn't got over their visibility issues, if I hadn't won, one of my students didn't even have a website that had her name on it. She was too scared to use her real name for any of her published paces. And I realize visibility is one of the biggest aspects of writing and publishing a memoir. So I sort of have to put that into a separate program, which is all. And I didn't realize that I'd done all of this with you. So all those years that I spent pitching articles and following up and writing freelance articles. That was me getting comfortable, being visible, pitching and following up. So I created a another smaller program, which is all about getting getting published and getting visible because that is actually going to lead to your book deal anyway. So, you know, if you want to be traditionally published and if you want to self publish, you really need to get visible, too, because you'll sell more books. So I separated that. And then this is the new program that I'm working on, which I'm really excited about, because it's everything that I was just sort of. Describing to you about my friend Bruce and then what I went through with love, another U-turn, which is people who signed the book deal, right? That's amazing. That is a huge accomplishment. But there's actually a six to 12 month process that they need to go through to ensure that that book sells for longer than two months, because that might be the book. The only book that they ever publish and you want to give it the best chance of success. And self care is a huge part of that process because otherwise, how are you going to go on TV or radio or podcasts and talk about your incredibly personal, sometimes traumatic story? Because a lot of memoirs are about very traumatic experiences or Newtons. You know, sometimes if it's a travel memoir like Love, another U-turn, that is a happy that is a really happy story that I wrote. But, you know, for example, with a letter, letter from Paris, I did a lot of talks, library talks. I did some events in Sydney at the Ambulance Française, because my dad was connected with the aliens from sides. And I had complete strangers coming up to me afterwards and asking incredibly personal questions about my family. And if I hadn't been prepared for that and if I hadn't done it all before, I would have just fallen apart. And I still was extremely exhausted after promoting that book, but. I had all these methods in place and I knew what I was getting into. And I think there's a real gap there. People think as soon as I've signed the book deal, that that's that's a fantastic I'll just hire a public system. I can take care of the rest. Yes. Or you actually have to do a lot, particularly with memoir, because you you are the story. It's not like I didn't invent with a really well-known historical fictional son. Attach a list of documents. You've heard of her. She's hit the bestsellers in the in the US with her latest book, The Paracel Orphan. And we didn't have into the library. And, you know, she had always it was the same library that I'd done an event at two or three months earlier. And she had members in the audience asking her questions and she looked so relaxed and so happy. And I realized, oh, my God, it's because she didn't because hers is a fiction. And I was like, oh, man, you have to be so different.

[00:47:16] And she wasn't, like, absolutely ruined after the event and, you know, just meeting. And I never thought about that. She's just discussing the story. She told you she's not discussing her history.

[00:47:29] I would feel personally, I would feel sorry personally, sort of pried open after every media appearance or event, which is fine, you know? And they will. And I did certain things to strengthen myself before that. And there were questions that I wouldn't know, that I wouldn't answer them, but I'd sort of come up with because I've worked as a journalist. Sort of come up with deflecting ways to turn them back. But, you know, it's all this stuff that people don't know. And I really want to educate people because. Yeah. A bit like the legacy project thing. If this memoir if this book is the only book that you ever have published, you want to give it the best chance of success. And you you owe it to yourself as well to to really look after yourself and really promote it to the best of your ability, your ability, and make it a really joyous, glamorous, wonderful thing because. Yeah. I mean, a lot of memoir groups on Facebook, which is sort of showing me how. How damaging that whole launch process can be if people aren't prepared properly. So that's that's the new program that I'm working on. How long is it? How long does it last? At least six months. I haven't. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't completely fine tuned the the material yet, but it has to be at least six months. I'm thinking of possibly extending it to 12 because most most publishers give you at least 12 months lead time before the book comes out. Yeah.

[00:49:08] And it's it's more to cover not just the marketing and the publicity, but self care. And you know what you want what you want to say. Media training from that perspective of, you know, if this is the only book that you publish. If if this is what your children and your grandchildren are going to hear about your story, what would you like them to take away? So, you know, I like politicians. Get trained to. Sure. Your press conferences. Authors may need that sort of training as well.

[00:49:42] Absolutely. Well, given that you're revamping a couple of things right now and kind of extending into its proper time, length and category, sectioning with the three different courses, and what are their goals and plans do you have for yourself moving forward?

[00:49:56] Are you looking at any new works yourself or are you kind of honing in on this some coaching role, this advisory role that you have for the next few years? What do you see for yourself?

[00:50:06] So I'm always I'm always thinking of the next project. At the moment, I'm actually working on a proposal for my third memoir, which is actually a Joel memoir with my dad. So as I as I worked through a letter from Paris, I found his manuscript in the library. I found a memoir that he'd written. And this is part of the reason I'm so passionate about memoir. And even though he died when I was six through writing his memoir, I feel like I've got a relationship with him. I know my dad again. So I really am so passionate about the value of memoir in terms of writing. You know, if he if he hadn't left his memoirs, I wouldn't know so much amazing stuff that happened to him that, you know, even things about this character that I've just really, really been important to learn. So I'm working on a proposal for that to be published as a follow up to a letter from Paris. I've been transcribing all the material because it's suddenly pipe up at the library. So over the last year, I've been transcribing it and into digital files and now I'm just polishing it because it's sort of from the 1940s and 50s. So, yeah, it's pretty, pretty fun to work on that. And also working on. Yeah. I'm really excited working on these memoir programs. I have one of my programs that I'm not revamping. That's just there. Evergreen for anyone is for beginners and that's a memoir journaling program. So that's a 30 day program because I couldn't have written any of my memoirs without my journals. And it sort of teaches you how to write in sort of how to ask yourself those questions that are going to get you writing in a way that you can then use for for a future published book if you want to turn things.

[00:52:02] Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love the call and response that you're having with your with your father as well.

[00:52:07] You know, I'm I'm a big believer in closed doors and death being maybe one of the most astute ones that we're faced with in this sphere, not closing conversations in relationships. You know, I think it it's it's very finite. To view it that way. And I love the idea that you're having this newfound conversation in relationship with your father all these years later. It's amazing.

[00:52:30] It's set a work of love. It is. So I mean, I was working on it yesterday and I I published a couple of the chapters from his first trip to Paris in 1940. I was just like, Ma going out. This is this is incredible. It's like a Paris that is from a made up story buttons because it was in his diary. I knew that it was true. And I just.

[00:52:53] Yeah. Yeah. The Paris. I want to go to everybody from Paris. I want to be there. I can't.

[00:53:00] You know, I can go and read some of the stories. I want to go back to Simone de Beauvoir as Paris like I want.

[00:53:05] Yeah. That this is like. Have you seen Big Night in Paris, the Woody Allen film? Yeah. This is like that. It's like, you know, he's just walking into a cafe and people are like, oh, god, my car coming. I will, I will take you somewhere better. And just hopping in the car with people and.

[00:53:21] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:22] Absolutely brilliant. Well I cannot wait for it to come out at all. And Louisa, I am sorry to say that we are wrapping it up on time because we could I could sit here for our days with you.

[00:53:36] I probabley talked way too much.

[00:53:37] No, not at all. I'm not editing any of this out. Am I going to let my team do it either. I want to know. I this is my final question. I wrap everything up for those of you listening the same question. It's my favorite. She's never going away. I'll never stop asking it. If you were in a park or a garden somewhere in beautiful Melbourne tomorrow to socially safe distance given the pandemic and a young woman or female identified or non binary individual walked up to you. So anyone other than a straight, white, cis gendered male and said, listen, I you know, I went to university, I would do this writing program. I think people have it wrong. I don't think there's enough application applied there in a mean I'm going to launch out on my own. I'm going to write my memoirs, and then I'm going to get them published and I'm going to do all of this and I'm going to use the grit and determination that doesn't hasn't been taught to me before. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?

[00:54:34] It's so funny because I did actually run into a. A girl who sounded very similar to that at a bookstore a few months ago, and she was so sweet and asking me questions because she wanted to be a writer. The first thing I would say is. Persevere. It's like it's like what what Dave said to me. You have to persevere.

[00:54:57] You probably get rejected the first 10 or 20 times. So perseverance is more important than having a quick win.

[00:55:07] The second thing is to always be learning. So I take everything as a learning opportunity. Even the most brutal rejections or feedback try to take the good and drop the bad because you can't take it personally or you'll just be wounded. So I try and just treat everything as a learning experience. And lastly, only speak to people who've been published in terms of advice, if that's what you want to do. Just get your advice from people who've been published. Don't be listening to, Someone whose Aunt Jenny, maybe Wrote a letter once 50 years ago. That was maybe put in a newspaper. Yes. Find some people that you can model or and even if you can't talk to them, read on their blogs, listen to their podcasts. We're sort of lucky in the Internet era, we can find mentors and not even make them. And learn all their best stuff. So, yeah. I my three pieces of advice persevere. Take the good. Drop the bad. When you learn and find someone that you can model what you want to do. Find someone actually published that you can model.

[00:56:28] I love this. Three pieces, especially the last one. Only speak with people who published about publishing like I love them.

[00:56:33] I shouldn't have this now. I believe it is last or. I know. I agree.

[00:56:40] Thank you so much for speaking with us today, Louisa. I appreciate it so much. And I know that everyone listening will as well.

[00:56:47] Thank you, Patricia. It was really good.

[00:56:49] Yeah, absolutely. And for everyone listening. Thank you so much for giving us your time. I have been speaking today.

[00:56:55] I've had the brilliant opportunity to speak with Louisa, Deasey and you can find her at w w w dot. I'm going to spell it out. L o u i s a dea s e y dot com for all of her services, as well as information regarding all of her bestselling books and works. And thank you again for giving me your time today.

[00:57:15] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay well, stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am chatting with Maggi Thorne. Maggi is an American Ninja Warrior 5X competitor who was the 2nd Mom up the warped wall and first to beat the salmon ladder, NBC Spartan Ultimate Team Challenge 2X championship competitor, and a previous Mrs. International 2014. In 2013 she placed 2nd at The World’s Toughest Mudder running 75 miles and completing 330 obstacles in 24 hours. Maggi served as a Global Ambassador for feedONE traveling the world in an effort to further feedONE's mission of helping others with the gift of a nutritious meal. Recently she created a BOW patch with the Girl Scouts to inspire female entrepreneurship, empowerment and community engagement, which thousands of scouts have earned since 2019.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with elite athlete and motivational speaker Maggi Thorne. Key points addressed were Maggi's history as a track and field college athlete and the subsequent career that followed it at the University of Nebraska. Maggi explains how both of these opportunities led up to her becoming one of the most famous American ninja warriors to date. We also unpack the ethos behind Maggi's brand and how her phrase never give up serves not only as a guiding light for her present and future endeavors, but also remains a constant theme throughout her past, which was riddled with obstacles itself. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Maggi Thorne.

[00:00:42] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen. And this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM. You can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:39] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I'm elated to be sitting down with Maggi Thorne. Maggi is an athlete and motivational speaker. You can find out more regarding her, her services and all the information we talk about today on her website. W w w dot. Maggi Thorne dot com. That's w w w . m a g g i t h o r n e . com. Welcome, Maggi.

[00:02:05] Hello. Thank you so much.

[00:02:07] Hi. I'm excited to unpack everything through. We're talking off the record and I have your famous in my household. I have four children that worship American Ninja Warrior as well as all of the other games that you've been involved in with your story. And so I can't wait to kind of unpack that. You're there, our first ninja warrior on the show. So I'm excited to kind of climb through everything with you.

[00:02:25] Oh, I love that you just climb through everything, because we are certainly going to unpack some obstacles today. So thank you for the opportunity.

[00:02:31] You bet. For everyone listening who might be new to our podcast, I will read a bio on Maggi to give you a brief background before I start asking her to unpack her history with us herself. But prior to doing that, a roadmap for today's podcast and the trajectory of inquiry that we'll be following. We'll first look at Maggi's academic and professional background as it pertains to where she is right now. And then we'll look at unpacking all of her endeavors. We'll look at. I'm packing her athletic endeavors with American Ninja Warrior, Spartan race, things of that nature, as well as her professional life and getting into motivational speaking, some of the ethos and philosophy that motivates both of those things that she's kind of known for. And then we'll look towards goals that Maggi has for the next one to three years. This is an area that's changed for everyone. Given the pandemic climate that is upon us, as well as for Maggi herself, given her history with them competing and all of her activities, we're up everything up with advice that Maggi has for those of you who are looking to get involved or emulate some of her dynamic success. So, as promised, a quick bio on Maggi before I start peppering her with questions. Maggi Thornee is an American ninja warrior, five time competitor. She was the second mom of the Warped Wall and the first to be to beat the Salman letter, MBC Spartan Ultimate Team Challenge, two time champion competitor and a previous misses International 2014. In 2013, she placed second at the world's toughest mud rent motor running seventy five mile, completing three hundred and thirty obstacles in twenty four hours. Maggi served as a global ambassador for Feed One, Traveling the world in an effort to further feed one's mission of helping others with the gift of a nutritious meal. Recently, she created a BO patch with the Girl Scouts to inspire female entrepreneurship, empowerment and community engagement, which thousands of scouts have earned since 2019. Maggi is a previous Governors Award winner for inspiring community engagement and her American Association Heart of Gold Award recipient. Professionally, she speaks to hundreds of thousands on inspiration and never giving up. In addition to engaging volunteers globally, a mother of three, she and her kids love serving, being active, traveling together and in her spare time, she loves to eat chips and salsa. So I have to say, as possibly one of the most fantastic things to just kind of put out there about yourself. Thank you. I love for your career and everything that you've done and a lot of the particulars that I have to inquire with you about. I'm wondering if you can kind of give us a general background of your academic and professional history prior to becoming the American ninja warrior that kind of propelled you into this.

[00:05:12] One of the biggest misnomers about myself and any success is people say, oh, man, anything you do, you're successful at and you have the golden touch. But they don't really realize is where I started at. And to jump back to the good old days of the 1980s that we all love to be nostalgic. I was born in San Diego and grew up in a low income home. We lived with another family and I actually never played sports growing up at all. I wasn't an evolved child. I did Girl Scouts. I was a Girl Scout and loved that time as a Girl Scout. But it wasn't until a teacher in high school at the age of 14 who thought I looked fast in PE and gave me an opportunity to become a California state champion. I became one of the top runners in California. Or that ties in for me academically is both of my brothers were high school dropouts, the highest grade completed, and my family was high school. So college wasn't something immediately on the radar for me as a kid. And I thought I was going to enlist in the military and become some kind of Air Force person who would serve our country. And it turns out I got to be a professional athlete later in my life who ended up having a college degree. And that was the first person in my family who ever had a college degree, which was just of all the accomplishments, if I look back. A school was a huge challenge for me. I really struggled with it. I didn't have a lot of academic support, support and really looking at the academic history of my family around me. It was a little hard to be motivated when you think, well, both my brothers dropped out. There wasn't a huge push for me to go further academically. So it started to be a series of choices that I really had to realize. I'm going to write my own story that I'm going to have to choose where I end up. There's nothing else around me that is going to determine my path but me, I decide. And so that played a huge role into a lot of decisions I made going forward.

[00:07:12] Yeah. I mean, being a trailblazer that early on was something is, I think, college. You know, for those that don't come from a family of it is daunting, you know, that the prospect of anything at that level without having someone to kind of refer you as to, you know, the process, even silly things, financial aid forms, you know, those used in the day. Things have gone electronically. But it was that kind of thing. When you don't have anyone who's done it before, it can seem almost intermountain insurmountable. What did you end up majoring in?

[00:07:45] Well, I wanted to be a PE teacher, and two weeks after I got to the University of Nebraska, they unfortunately dropped that major. And the only other thing I could do was get a bachelors degree in community health without entirely starting over my academic career. I had a huge support system at Nebraska that was actually one of the top reasons that I chose Nebraska. It wasn't just that I got a full ride or they had a great check her room, which they absolutely did. But I had to take a step back and look at the academic support that they had. And it was off the charts. They have more academic all Americans than any school in the country. And that's even over Ivy League schools. And, you know, you're surrounded by cornfields and counselors. So they really help set the table for that. And then being able to decide that degree.

[00:08:29] What was that experience like as a college athlete? I haven't spoken to too many, particularly guests on this show that speak to the experience. We've heard stories in the news where things, you know, on Olympic teams and things like that can be horrific. And I've also heard stories of camaraderie. But for you, what was that experience like?

[00:08:47] Number one, I love my experience in Nebraska from the moment I stepped on campus for my recruiting trip. It was so welcoming. I do remember I'm a pretty sharp, quick, funny story. They got me a sandwich after I got off the airplane. And unfortunately, there had been a hair in my sandwich. And I think they thought I was never going to sign as a recruit. After that, they were mortified. When this big, long hair came out of their mouth.

[00:09:11] But from day one, they're like, we're so sorry. We'll make you right.

[00:09:14] And I remember walking around, everybody said, how are you? But then they stopped. They keep moving past you to mention it. They were really invested in your life. They knew. How's your family doing? Whereas when I was a student athlete, my brother had died by suicide. And the support I got from people, everyone writing personal notes, you know, not just a group card, but. Other people were on academic staff pulling me and my coaches. Do you need any support? Are you OK? So I really had an amazing experience there. There were things that were hard. Absolutely. There's things that we did as an athlete that we got push. But I think that it's shaped part of who I am. I had a coach that was from Russia. And at the time, I got so hard on me because there are other athletes. If it was snowing or raining, you know, we're in Nebraska. And I would see them not having to practice inside or outdoors. When we were or, you know, they would get some back out of the meat if it was snowing. But one day, because I was complaining I was being such a big baby. He goes, Maggi Easterday was big truck championship was run. Yes, Vector's absolutely. I'd run. If today was a national championship. Would you run? Yes, that was. He goes then today you run and every day you run like a champion regardless. I was like, OK, I think I just like five accents. He's Russian and he was fantastic. But I remember that because I think one of the reasons I've become successful is it wasn't deciding to be my best when it was always convenient or it was the most opportune time. It was learning to be my best when I was at my worst consistently, and that some people might have to wrap their head around that for a little bit. But my time at Nebraska shaped me for ever. It launched me into careers and what I did next, which will probably talk about in a second. But I love Venus student athlete, the discipline. That was a part of it. I was in the weight room by five thirty in the morning that I was in class and I took a power nap for 30 minutes every day and then I was practicing again. So I spent six to seven hours or whatever. Was NCW allowed? I don't want to. I'm sure we stuck to that. But I spent you know, I was a part time, full time job, if you really want to say it, being a student athlete and then working and then doing your academics. And then I also served on the Student Athlete Advisory Committee. So there was there was a lot involved that it taught me how to have practical life skills that really applied to the real world.

[00:11:45] Yeah. And for the real world, you encountered, particularly right in your future to come, this one can be taken on a lot of levels. I think there are a lot of people that it's a it's an interpersonal dialog. That word conjures up different things for anyone that it's asked to, you know, and for athletes, it's a very special relationship with the word discipline. So I'm wondering, after you came out of college, what did you go into next? What was your first kind of professional encounter?

[00:12:13] When I was a student athlete, I had one class left before I graduated. And at that time, I actually thought I was going to end up being a personal trainer. And I was going to enroll in graduate school to get a graduate degree in nutrition and health science. I wanted to do nutrition counseling at the time, but I had that one class and then I had free time. And even as a student athlete or, you know, a college senior, I was so uncomfortable having so much free time, I thought I should really get a job. So I asked my coaches if they knew anybody on campus that needed worker. And it turns out the facilities and construction crew needed a worker. So I started as a student worker for Nebraska athletic department, picking up trash. I used to vacuum suites.

[00:12:57] I'd set up tables. And this turns out 10 years later, I ended up managing 340 million dollars in projects and designing and managing the facilities I used to clean. So that's in a scope of it. So I'm going to go back to literally no. How did that really happen? I was this do when I was a student worker on the grounds crew. They had a secretary that was gone one day and I was the only female. So they brought me in to answer phones. Yet we can all chuckle at that one. Only girls can answer phones, which isn't true. One of her puts, but there was a group of guys talking about projects and I had an idea. And so I spoke up. And I think it's so important for people to do that, to not think that you're not qualified enough, you're not good enough, your ideas aren't good just because you're not a person standing in the room with the suit. I mean, I had a T-shirt and jeans on and they all looked at me and then one of the persons who was in charge of that department said, I want you to start coming and bringing a suit and still bring your grounds to float, browse through clothes. And he would just give me projects, no instruction on the projects. You just tell me something to do and see where I would take it. And that's how it really started. It was because someone missed a day of work, which I'll say to this day, I can't transfer a phone call. There are so many notes that we could people they were out. They were busy like too many buttons. But eventually he asked me, said, what do you want to do with your life? I said, well, I'm not I'm not super sure, but I know I will never spend every day in an office wearing a suit. And I spent the next 10 years in an office wearing a suit. So I learned never say never. You have to open yourself up for opportunity because that could change the world literally can't count ourselves out. But it came down to. There was a one day when I think this is the day that I really got hired. We were working on the Nebraska football lounge. We were redesigning it. And it was a meeting that I wasn't even invited to. I'll see it right now. But I was hungry for it. And so what I did and keep in mind, you heard what my degree is. I had a bachelor's degree in community health. I never had any experience in construction, architectural design, engineering. But every day when they left office, I sat down and I taught myself how to use every single program that they used AutoCAD, 3D design, Photoshop, all of the Microsoft programs. And then I taught myself how to read for plants. And so it came down to that meeting. And my boss and they had a intern get a master's degree in architectural design. And I walked into his office with the floor plans and I said, are you ready to go? And he he didn't want to tell me no. So he's a. Yeah, sure. Come to the meeting. He was being so kind. And when we showed up, the thing that happened is I was prepared. No one had asked me to be prepared. No one told me what to do. If you want something, you've got a deal to figure it out. You can't sell yourself short. I didn't have the degree. So that was the day I think I got hired because the there is the principal of a firm who said, does anyone else have any other comments on the drawings? And no one expected me to say a thing. And I pulled up my floor plans and I said, I actually have some comments. And everybody, again, they looked at me. And after the meeting, they came up to me and said, I have to tell you. Nobody ever catches things like that except me. And he's a senior principal of a firm. And so my boss looks and eventually, six months later, I had to compete for that job against that intern that had a master's degree in architectural design. And I had a bachelors degree in community health and I got hired. So I spent my next 10 years doing that. And it was amazing. All the cities that got to use this student athlete, I got to create awesome environments, build an arena, expand a football stadium, build a volleyball arena. So if anybody ever wants to tell me, I can't I'm not equipped. I don't have the degree. My family was too poor and really the wrong person to say that, too.

[00:16:59] Yeah. Absolutely stacked against you. And those software, not for nothing but AutoCAD.

[00:17:04] I mean, when my partner in life is, you know, one of the original Silicon Valley computer nerds and I feel like I've touched almost every software piece out there. AutoCAD is my least favorite. It's not friendly. It is like in the arts. It is like too much there, too much utility. So teaching that to yourself is I mean, the grit that is required with that alone is is astounding. So you you went onto it. You were you were an employee through this department of the University of Nebraska for ten years. Yes. And universities are an interesting umbrella to work under because they're kind of their own microclimate. But they have a lot of the similarities as far as the aspects and the software and things like that. But they have their own hierarchy. I think, you know, I worked for the University of Utah for a spell and it's just its own microclimate. I tried to explain it to people like, you know, there's it's you have the professional industry and then you have the university bubble as well. And everything functions under boards and committees. And this and there's a lot of different boxes that get checked for things.

[00:18:04] So it's it's it's a lesson, I think, in patients as well as process. Right. They sometimes when I think about universities. So what happened? What caused you to leave the job?

[00:18:16] I love that job and I actually loved it so much that sometimes I would really choose it over friends or family in gatherings and there's a lot of things that got pushed aside. And I started to have this whole of every day. You know, we're building the east stadium expansion. And I watched it go up from the first piece of steel that went in. And I love something being built from the ground up. My heart space is on a job site. But as I watched it construct, I'd walk over this bridge every day from where I parked. And it's like that start to say, don't just build buildings, build people. And every single day I was on a job site and I felt it. And eventually, unfortunately, my best friend in the world, she was the maid of honor at my wedding when I had got married. She died by suicide. And she was the second person who in my life, my brother had in 2005. And then she died in 2011. So within 10 years, I lost two people to suicide. And the day of her funeral, I was standing over her casket. And I thought, I can have all the success in the world. But what if I lose people, I get. It just doesn't matter. I could put my name on every building in the city of Lincoln, Nebraska, on. I've been a part of so many, quote unquote, important projects, but when you're a part of building someone's life. That's it's amazing, there's nothing that compares to being able to just share love and empower someone. So I made a commitment that day that I was going to love people. So I thought about three years we were in the middle of the biggest capital campaign that had ever existed for Nebraska athletics. And I wanted to be committed to what I was assigned. I was at the helm of a lot of the projects with my boss, John Ingram, who's fantastic and definitely inspired me in so many ways as a male leader supporting a female in a male dominated industry. But I had told him, I said, I think I'm going to leave eventually. And it's really my passion to go love people and build people and not buildings. And he knew that. So I started getting involved outside of work in Mrs. International. I wanted to take the skills that I had.

[00:20:34] And I learned over time because as a part of Nebraska athletics, that role grew a lot, whereas a part of hiring committee is a part of the rebrand for the entire athletic department. When we made our move to from the big twelve to the Big Ten contracts, you know, I ended up leading our recycling initiatives as a university. So there's a lot of things that I'd never had experience with. Yet there I play and I bet you these are skills that can translate and impacting lives. And how do we do that? And so I wanted to find platforms. I had a marketing background. Now there are things I knew how to do. You didn't know how to do makeup to save my life. I used to call eye shadow I powder. I mean, it took me like an hour in several minutes of tears to, like, not get my eyes glued together, putting my lashes. So patents was a great platform. But then I also felt like it was going to teach me how to speak well from that platform. And if you really want to impact lives, you need to sharpen those skills in 30 seconds. You should be able to tell anybody what you want to do with your life and how you're going to do it quickly and concisely. I think that's important for people to know that to always have an elevator speech because you need to live ready if you want to live with purpose. So I ended up competing for Mrs. International. I got top 10 my first year. And what I did was I stood back as I watched the other girl get crowned, because at that time I thought, well, I'm ready. You know, that was the athlete in me. I'm ready. I'm going to win.

[00:22:06] I didn't realize how ready I wasn't. So I just stood back and I was watching everything unfold on stage. And that's kind of how I learned. If you'll hear this theme over time, as I just learned and invested. So the next year I came back and I won. I wasn't a pageant girl. It had been about 15 years since I had done was as a teenager. And I'd also spent the last decade having babies. I have three children. So I decided to become a professional runner that time, too, because that makes sense. Let's do that. It really set the stage. This is all before American Ninja Warrior. They started to tie in together, but I really wanted to broaden myself to be able to have a broader audience and a broad impact and see how it could uniquely and creatively impact lives. Yeah.

[00:22:59] And it sounds like it. It all sounds very like a path that makes sense, you know, now that you're kind of unpacking it as to what you became, even the public health aspect of it, because, you know, I mean, what you went on to do, which is kind of affect public health. How did you first come into contact or how did American Ninja Warrior enter your radar zone?

[00:23:22] In college, I was roommates with Jesse Graff, which for you as a Ninja Warrior fan and for your kids. She is one of the top female. She she's absolutely amazing. And so people don't really realize we've actually been friends for 17, 18 years now. So we were roommates. I knew she had competed on American inj work. And I had someone tell me all you should do that. So I talked to Jesse and I applied. And the first year I really thought I was going to go out and crush it. Jesse was by my side. She helped me train. She flew out to Nebraska. She was trying to make sure I got ready and she had not competed. That year is actually an off year for her. But I went out and I fell on the very first step. My very first year. And they aired it. Luckily, the girl at this planet. Yep, yep. Yep. Little did we know five years later happened again, but in a much more traumatic way. But I applied the next year for Ninja Warrior and I actually got rejected. And then I applied the next year for Ninja Warrior and I got rejected again. So I was three years into it. And I can't tell you how many people at this point. My journey on the outside. It wasn't making sense to anybody. You're doing pageants for your in races now you're doing American means where and you're getting rejected and yet you're still going for it. Clearly, they don't want you.

[00:24:36] You should give up. And if anybody knows me, they think about my brand. It's never give up. And I believe that with every part of my fiber and my being and my soul and I believe that for people, if you have to know who you are and your passion so much that it's such a part of you that you can tell people, I'm going to continue it. I was not supported at that time. I will just say that it was a really challenging journey to keep going. So four years into it and came back as the top female. So I went from one of the worst to one of the best and the only one who had beat crank it up. And all those people who said you shouldn't do this shit is not right. How did you do it? And so it was just it was really important, as I learned, started to learn as a teenager, that I had to make a choice for my own journey and and also for me, knowing what God wanted for my life and that path and where it was going to go. So Ninja Warrior has been such an amazing platform to reach families, empower women. Bill, people in a real way of overcoming obstacles above and beyond.

[00:25:47] Of course, I remember when you were first the first time I saw you on, and I'm not sure which year it was for you, but I remember when I first saw you on watching it with my little girls. They were we were talking about. They had mentioned your story and they were talking about how you had three young children and you were a single mom. And. And I kind of paused. And the only thing that really big I've I've just met so many prolific, wonderful, amazing women in my life. It wasn't shocking. I just thought, I wonder when she sleeps, because if she's training for this and working and I'm a full time parent as a single parent would be. It seems to me like you would need some kind of help with some of it. What kind of aid did you have during that time period? And can you kind of describe your training routine? Was it similar to training in college? I mean, you have to do kind of design your own training. I would think the circuit, even if they're shared, prolific, you know, passes and things like that on line between the different ninjas, you're designing your your schedule, your training time, your routine. What did life look like during that time period when you went from, you know, unknown to the top female ninja warrior?

[00:26:57] It was really challenging. I, living in Nebraska, do not have any family here. So it was really hard to do it. I mean, there's there's no way to put it. And one time I actually got asked an interview. What do you like about being a single parent? And I didn't realize I was going to react this way, but I about had it like a nervous breakdown in front of them, like no one had ever asked me not. It hit me in such a way that I just I started sobbing. And I looked at them and I said, I hate it. I don't like this like it's not what life's supposed to be like. And they're like, just once you take a second, what's different, Krista? Because it was it was an in-person interview, actually, by the TV show. And I don't think they realize, you know, the number one I told the show, I never want to promote divorce. It was the hardest decision I ever had made. And I can't express enough the amount of counsel that I had surrounding that. If you can really work it out, why in both parties are willing. I want to encourage. I just need to say that now. And number two, it wasn't training like an athlete because I it was really hard to have set schedules. You know, my kids came first. So if I'm dropping off or someone says, hey, we've come have lunch with me today, mom, I forgot my bag. We bring it to school, you know. And then I freelanced for work doing what I could and find sponsorships. And so for me, really, it was the minute they went to bed is when I got to train. You know, if I could fit in an hour during the day or 30 minutes during the day, no one else will. Maybe I can give the rest of it. And tonight. So I didn't have these dedicated training sessions and then tried. The most difficult part for me was I. There is no ninja gym here.

[00:28:44] The entire time time I competed on American injured warrior. So all the equipment I trained on, I got from thrift stores attire I found on the side of a road, a truck tire. Really, if someone wants it, you can make it work. I just had to figure out how to adapt once again and thankfully my kids all of being active. So when I did travel, people notice like I'm a package deal. There's a really hard line in the sand. And if my kids can't be involved, I won't do it. And I have to trust God to, like, say no to some really hard thing sometimes that given the wow, that would be so financially good for the guy. It just might not be the best with your kids around him, like. Well, then it's a. because we are. I mean, you know, as a parent, you get such a short window of time and I'm just not willing to trade that.

[00:29:39] Absolutely. I wonder, though, when you talk about doing it on your own there, not being an engine there, the micro muscles, did you have to learn more?

[00:29:48] Did you study more about getting into because it feels like so looking at some of the obstacles over the years, especially how they've changed and things like that, it feels like you have to kind of fine tune in different regions. Jesse Graf is talking about it. I think a shoulder injury or something, or maybe it was someone else and they were talking about like slowing down their reps of their pull up so that they could get an absolutely perfect form so that the micro muscles and all that whole area would rehab correctly. And I think of in terms of the different obstacles, how would you get your body ready for the task at hand and get to the place that you did so prolifically without testing any of the courses or the activities themselves out? Did you find yourself studying anatomy or were you just doing what you could and hoping that there would be some kind of cross pollination effect?

[00:30:34] There's probably a mix of it. Jesse's always been a huge influence. And even to the point of what you just said, she's actually the one who taught me, hey, this is how you really do a pull up focus on these mechanics. So she's just always been a huge influence and have competed as a ninja.

[00:30:51] But also I think that's where being a track happily came in. I was a hurdler, which is a really it's a technical event. You have to even as you warm up, what's your mechanics go slow. Repetition, repetition, repetition. So repetition was very important for me. And what I learned to do was say flexible, build the muscle groups, especially I'm an older athlete. I mean, people to remember, both ninjas are in their early 20s. I am now thirty nine years old. So I had to make sure I don't want to throw myself eight feet in the air and catch something and rip both of my shoulders up. So that was something that was so important for me to make sure to build all of those groups, the dynamics, the functions. I didn't have a warped wall. Well, what muscle groups am I gonna use in a worthwhile what will most replicate it? And then absolutely, we spent a ton of time on playgrounds. I mean, people want to ninja Werdum, go swing around in a playground. So that was always super fun for us. And then I did have lots of opportunities to get out to ninja gyms as I was starting to speak. My kids will come with me. And so I would train on the road and try to get in some time in competitions. I will say, yeah, there's ways where I could see where it affected me, where I wasn't as fluid or I couldn't be able to cast myself as well on a laschet. And those are just things that eventually an owner of a gymnastics gym here in Lincoln, Nebraska, gave me a key to his gym just so I could try to practice Lachaise. And you can get creative. Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:20] And you have to. And it sounds like you've honed in on that skill your entire life. I'm wondering, you're starting to speak. You know, you're you're starting to compete. You didn't get in then you are. You got in on the walk on line for Ninja Warrior. This is prior to you taking the title. I'm wondering.

[00:32:39] You're starting to do public speaking and things like that. Recovery wise, like I think a lot of ninjas are starting to speak more about this. But in the past, I had a friend who is an Olympic hopeful in gymnastics, and she talked a lot about like the devoutness of her gym, about recovery after meats. And it's the reason why she thinks she went so far and a lot of fellow athletes that didn't have the same focus on that. And I'm wondering, how do you personally come at recovery? Because it kind of plays into your story as it lies now. But back then, when you were just beginning this first few years in seasons and things like that, what was recovery like for you? Like you trained nonstop? And then how long did you spend in recovery? Was there rehabilitation that had to take place? How did that all work for you?

[00:33:25] As a student athlete, it was a high priority. I will say I had to learn for ninja word because I was doing different muscles in different groups. I mean, I spent 10 years turning left and jumping over sticks. So there's a little bit of a different dynamic. But after practice and I think it's one of the reasons when I was a Division one athlete is I was an ice bath. Every day I made sure to do my cool down a stretch to eat right. I hydrated. I got sleep. So translate you had to binge warrior. I struggled to learn what to do, what was right or what my shoulders needed. And there were points where I didn't know when to stop. And now I've learned to listen to my body. But I did get to the points where I hurt my shoulder so that I put on or take off a sports bra was just about excruciating for me. And some days even just lifting my shoulder up. And that's when I started to make sure, as you mentioned earlier, building the muscle groups around, like it's basically building a body of armor around you for when you compete. And then I have to know when to say no on things. You know what? I did just spend eight hours in a car, and this course looks fun. And I want to play with all my friends, but I think I need to say no right now unless I'm dedicated to spending the next forty five minutes to warm up. So you learn. Sometimes the hard way.

[00:34:45] That rotator sounds bad. Not for arms up like that. That's a no. There are a lot of activities that would be limited with that. So I want to get into your kind of the pinnacle of the American ninja where as where as well as the Spartan Games. So for people who are listening that maybe haven't seen the show or been living in a cave somewhere. American Ninja Warrior is this multiple obstacle course. How would you define it if someone was like, I've never heard about what it do? What is that? Whatever you want.

[00:35:17] For American, each word and the one thing I'd say, it's a family friendly show, that is stories of people who are not only overcoming obstacles in their life, but they have an opportunity to do it on a global platform to overcome obstacles, literally physically in person as people cheer them on. And that's what it is. A who we all debate about. This is an injustice for it. Yes, I do believe it is a sport, but it's also also this blend of it's something that you can turn on and, you know, you never have to worry about it with your family. And I've appreciated that as more. But there's these feats of physical strength that you can tell.

[00:36:01] You see it in my eyes when I compete like my knuckles are white. And I'm holding on with everything I have. And you feel it. I think you feel it as the audience member where you're like, oh, just hold on.

[00:36:12] Oh, you can oh, you can do this.

[00:36:15] And then they make it through. And that's like everybody's chairman of the Libyans are with you. And you know that as an athlete, you know that you're part of something that's so much bigger than stepping onto a TV show. And that's such a core responsibility. I think I just took it long there. But when people ask you to talk about it and nerd out a little bit because I love it so much.

[00:36:34] Absolutely. And from that, your family, you're kind of ninja warrior family spilled over into the Spartan Games, right? You were on a team of people that was formerly ninja's.

[00:36:44] Yes, we were Team Ninja for the Spartans show competed for two seasons. It was such a cool experience and I will say things like Spartan or I haven't competed on Titan games. But those are actually more up my alley. I love brute strength, mud, grit. Not that you don't have great ninja. But it's definitely different with Spartan or something like a Titan games. It was more suitable to my comfort zone. Believe it or not, too. Yes. I want to have six people stand on my shoulders and a tilted wall.

[00:37:19] So it's fantastic. It really actually does. I loved it.

[00:37:24] Yeah. It's it's I think it defines a personality type. For sure. You know, and it's it is uniquely different hormones. Like it's the same thing right there. UPS, of course is another very, very different Rehov.

[00:37:34] So different. Yeah. Spartan it was brutal. We were just exhausted. And I think people saw that in our last race. We actually competed back to back nights and got home at seven a.m. and had to be back on set at four p.m. after we competed night after night and then compete again. And yeah, it's we were tired.

[00:37:58] Yeah. It's an indoor as it looks like an endurance game. You know, Ninja Warrior feels like there's a lot of technicalities that can go wrong and and your your run early. But the Spartans, it seems to just leave it all out there on the course, as they say. I'm wondering if so, let's Kleman to you had kind of this now very famous moment in you finished. You know, you became this this titleholder for how far you went up until that point. Can you kind of describe the run? Is it Oklahoma City that that run happened in?

[00:38:30] Oklahoma City in 2019 for American Ninja Warrior.

[00:38:35] It was my fifth year competing in the show officially and I was excited, but I'd also say I was probably the most relax I had ever been. I was really, really intense there before from Minneapolis and my training to the point that maybe overly intense. So going into this year, I thought, you know, I'm just going to really. Soak this in news in God's hands. But on the prelims night had actually fallen and saved myself by like two pinky fingers or I mean something ridiculous. And I didn't realize I could he'll hook my leg up to pull myself up up on the diving boards. But then what happened? Actually, the next night and finals going into it on the same obstacle, the diving boards, I tripped and I face planted. And with the diving boards are is there pieces of steel that are covered for traction, traction, not padding. And what that caused was a brain injury. So we didn't know it at the time. And I don't remember most of my run. I've tried to get parts and pieces of it and I got to experience it with the rest of the world. So I didn't see it before it aired. No one had video of it. The producers, you know, they don't share film with us. We don't get to see our runs or how they edited it.

[00:39:57] So watching it was really emotional. I watched it first in public. There was a watch party and I tried to actually not really watch it. And then immediately after I was in Virginia, I went to my hotel room and I watched it.

[00:40:10] I just cried because, as I said, I had spent the last oh, it was four or five months as an outpatient at a brain trauma hospital in about 20 hours a week of rehab, doing speech and cognitive physical PTO t. I ended up having a psychologist or a therapist and then vision. So pretty much almost everything that they had in the unit was a part of my life. And so those emotions were just felt so strongly because not only did I go to the E.R. that night from set, but I went to the E.R.. That's. Oh, Thursday, I had a friend come and check on me because I don't even remember driving home for no Oklahoma City, one of my friends found someone else to drive. Me and my kids got us home. I was another person we had been training with. And there was this terror van and the leg. The last thing I remember is being on stage for the starting line. And then I was standing in my kitchen in Lincoln, Nebraska. So it was so surreal and confusing. And I finally got to see why I had been so miserable, so to speak, for so many months and. Then just started to talk about it because I didn't realize how many people are actually affected by being in by brain injuries, but the number two, it also forced me to stop in such a real way and think about how fast I was going in every area of my life. And I can say right now, I think it's actually a gift. I had a brain injury because I didn't prioritize self care. You asked me about that. How how were you a single mom? I was training 40 hours a week, working for an hour as weak as parenting, you know, 40 hours a week. I, I did. I was living in a constant state of survival mode. And I think it was such mercy and grace that God's like, I love you too much to let you keep living like this. So it's it's such a gift for me today to slow down and make sure. I continue to build in arrests and slowing down and say no to something so I can allow for other yesses in my life.

[00:42:28] And I think that sometimes as simple or maybe even trite as it sounds, slowing down can require more discipline. You know, for someone who is prolifically moving through life, young parents, people who just are constantly juggling things, actually taking space and holding still and really continuing thought through, thinking about things like self care can be much more nerve wrenching, you know, than running a marathon because it's, you know, motion stays in motion is constant and things like that.

[00:43:01] But when you stop and you question can be a daunting place, even if you're doing well, you know perfectly well with all of these wonderful titles and this incredible career to sit and actually really question yourself and re identify and revisit those conversations. Is it can be a lot, you know, to handle brain injuries. I just spoke off the record. I do have a colleague and friend who suffered from one. And I think you mentioned in a prior interview that I read of yours that it's incredibly painful because it's not seen on the outside frequently that the individual looks incredibly normal. But the suffering on the inside and the therapy is particularly with my colleague and friend. She post and recovery from the actual therapies themselves sometimes would take her a day and a half, you know, just to kind of reorient it was a very painful recovery process. It wasn't just laying in bed, taking time, getting well. You know, all of that was amazing. Has have you incorporated that kind of dialog and conversation into your public speaking now? Do you think it will change how you go on to relate to your audiences and what you do?

[00:44:17] It absolutely has impacted it in a great way were a lot of people. They want to know how can I survive something traumatic? There's a lot more to my story.

[00:44:29] People want to dig deeper. It's probably on some interview somewhere. But I had a history of trauma from the time I was like five years until adulthood of different things that happened from rape, assault, abuse. And so that brain injury. It really literally forced me to sit still in the very first day I ever had and sit still, which I can't tell you the time I remember doing it before, that I legitimately can't tell you what I told you. I rested before that I screamed and it was so scary. And the next day I went into the hospital and told them, I think I'm on the verge of an emotional breakdown. But I said it in such a casual way they didn't know what to do. And I was like, listen, I'm not vulnerable. I'm an athlete. I'm trying to tell you I need help. And I will absolutely advocate for that in such a real way to not burn both candlesticks, you know, from both ends, I guess. Success is success. But if you can't have peace in your life, it's really all for naught. Kind of is what I believe. And I echo with what your friend said. For me, my vision was the hardest hit. I hit on the right side of my face. It affected some of my nerves and my eyes didn't communicate with each other. So it forced me to not be on my phone. I couldn't even answer an email. I couldn't look at technology. I physically couldn't handle the scroll of a screen. I had to reach out and ask for help. Being away from my technology. Yes, away from my emails. Gifts in it. It really restructured my entire life. And I know I still do have effects. I talk about it a lot less because I get that people say, Oh, you're so strong.

[00:46:13] Can you come back?

[00:46:14] You look amazing. And I just want to be healthy. I can't focus on that. I called the producers before I told anyone else I was going to announce. I said, you know, this is what I'm going to say. I'm so grateful for American injurious. But like, I'm I can't even think about anything beyond recovery right now because I was at the point where I was literally losing my vision. I wasn't having double vision, but my eye therapy was so aggressive I would go home and not be able to see for forty five minutes. And that was Harry. So I, I want to make sure that first and foremost, I'm the most physically healthy mom I can be because I can go out and train like I know to train. Know how to do well. But if I do that and then get hurt again, then. So my health is such a Purdie and I want to advocate for that for all people to build that in behalf phones. It's great. So, um.

[00:47:12] Yeah. And it's honorable. I think that, you know, this is the athletic spirit is celebrated, but sometimes I think just one piece of it celebrated just that moment on top of the mountain. You know, sometimes maybe the training and the climb up. But there's another piece of that.

[00:47:28] You know, there's another there's always growth. And I think that the story of the athlete that has for any reason, injury or not, kind of hit the the moment where they're they're moving on to something else. It's another pivot, you know, that that's equally as as celebratory. The story is, you know, continuing. You're not ceasing to exist because you're not on American Ninja Warrior 20, 21 or whatever. And to that end, I want to ask you, what is your your future? Have you thought about the next one to three years? I know a lot of times in recovery, even a therapist will encourage you to just keep your sights on this one goal. And so if if it isn't out there, I don't want to encourage you to not to have one. But have you thought about, professionally speaking, more any of those types of things for the next one to three years for yourself? What do you see?

[00:48:16] Within the last couple weeks, I've definitely set goals for what the next one to three years look like. I will say before that. That's the number one question I got from everybody when I spoke. What's next? What's next? What's next? And I had to be OK telling everybody. I don't know yet. And that was my answer for awhile. My next thing is to not have a next thing. And I think that's actually what is going to set me up best for what will eventually be a next. And that sounds like a big tongue twister riddle, but it was so important to not have a nexus for a little bit and be OK with that. Well, now. Yes. I want to continue and I will continue to speak and engage with people on a global scale, including Girl Scout partnerships. Empowering youth to be healthy. Goal setting individuals. Writing a book is on the table for me. Has been for a long time. I know God told me that for a while that I just need to be able to focus enough to get something specific. But most immediately, I'm actually applying for a master's degree in biblical studies with Colorado, Christian University. I want to know why not get a brain injury and go back to school? That sounds about right. So that's it. I am going to be focusing on is I'm going to be searching for scholarships to go back to school as a single mom and get a master's degree. I think it will be important for my kids to be a part of that process as well. And then I think it will honestly help me as a TBI survivor. It is going to be challenging. I do still have cognitive challenges, but I think it's going to be healthy to face them. I don't want to live in fear of them or worry or or be scared. I think that I'll continue to need the right people to support me as I try to get a masters degree. And it's going to be exciting. And then I'll have something I'll be launching in the next couple months. I'm partnering with some media teams. So I think ultimately my goal this is going to sound weird is to like a race myself and not have Maggi Thorne be the brand. But something else exists that last beyond me that can pass on as a legacy for other people where it becomes their own thing. And they're not just how I go to your page and it's so inspiring. Yes, I love it and I appreciate it. What can I help other people make their own? And that becomes their legacy within themselves. So that's a goal.

[00:50:44] That's a beautiful thing. I love that. And I love legacy. And I think it's I think as parents, you get to a point where you start to actually think about it. You know, you have this this breath. And I say the second, you know, you come up as a parent. You know, when you the toddlers are sleeping through the night. You have like a year. And you start saying, what am I going to do with my life? And then you immediately become enveloped with, like, what's my legacy? What am I leaving on Earth? There's never, ever an expectation or break for me anyway. And so I. Yours is beautiful. I love that. We're running out of time. But I do want to ask you, Maggi. What do you if if you ran up to someone next tomorrow and safe social distance at a Gardiner Park. And it was a young woman and she said, listen, we have a friend in common.

[00:51:33] And they said, I've got to come talk to you. I've had this wonderful career as a student athlete. I then spent the next decade involved in this area that at the beginning I didn't necessarily have the training for became prolific at. And I was very proud of all of those things. But I'm going to actually pivot now and do this wonderful, you know, obstacle course slash television show and hope for the best. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?

[00:51:58] I would ask her or him what, number one? Why do you want to do it? What's your purpose behind it? Because the training and commitment for it is so hard. If that is it behind it, it's gonna make it all that more difficult. So I'd really want to know that first and have a compass of Wohlsen here. Here's where you go from there. And being able to make it, it's 24/7 training. And what I mean with that is your rest is training your waters, training your nutrition. The people you surround yourself with is training. It's a full time commitment. It's not something you turn on and off during the day to the point that I stop wearing high heels for a while because it was to impact like my legs couldn't handle it. And again, I'm older. But there's those three things. Why do you want to do it? Letting them know it's a full time commitment and then building a really solid foundations are able to get the experience and have the best experience possible. As if if I think if you go into it and I'll say this for anybody, anything you go into. If your expectation is is just to win, I think you walk away with a loss. You have to walk into it with purpose and passion, because if you don't win, but you still know, you give everything you've got. That's a victory. Absolutely.

[00:53:31] Yeah. A thousand percent, I think with everything in life, two measurements are, you know, first of all, usually not constructed by the person competing in them. So developing your own son's very solid. So loosely, I have no one know your purpose in why training is hard. So you need to know where all of your passion and purpose is coming from and what they are identified. Number two, training is 24/7, 365, encompassing all aspects of your life. Remember that. And number three, build a solid foundation for the best experience possible. And the goal isn't just to win. I love. That's why you're the pro. Good job. Thank you very much.

[00:54:08] I'm so thankful that you spoke with us today. Maggi, we're out of time. But I just wanted to say again, I really appreciate everything that you've you've given us today. And I know that there's a lot of personal narrative tied into your professional story. And I really do appreciate your candor and honesty.

[00:54:23] Thanks, Patricia. I appreciate what you're doing to educate, empower and equip people across the nation and globally.

[00:54:29] Absolutely. For everyone listening, we've been speaking with Maggi Thorne. She's an athlete, motivational speaker. You can find out more regarding everything that she is doing on her Web site. W w w dot. Maggi Thorne, dot com. That's m a g.g i t h o r and e dot com.

[00:54:48] Thank you for giving us your time today and until we speak again next time. Remember to stay healthy, stay safe and honest. But yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I chat with Tamara Klink. Tamara’s life purpose is to empower females working in technology to live a balanced and purposeful life. She founded FIIT Collective to create a global support network for females working in tech, or considering information technology as a career.

Along the way Tamara spent 8 years as a circus performer, graduated from Bond University with a Bachelors of Business and Accounting, then moved into recruitment, before finding her joy in technology. Tamara now works for Salesforce, one of the leading technology companies globally, as a Senior Solution Engineer.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with Tamara Johanna Klink. Tamara is the founder of the Global Support Network. F. I. I. T. Fit Collective. Key points addressed were tomorrow's professional history and current dream job with Salesforce. We also discussed her founding the Fit Collective, which stands for females in information technology and serves as a global support network for females working in tech or considering a career in tech. Stay tuned for my talk with Tamara Johanna Klink.

[00:00:37] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com , where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod, Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:35] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Tamara Johanna Klink. She's the founder of Fit Collective, a global support network for females working in tech, are considering a tech career. You can find out more about her and fit collective at fit collective dot com. Welcome, Tamara.

[00:01:56] Oh, thank you so much, Patricia, for having me.

[00:01:58] Absolutely. I look forward to unpacking fit collective and everything that you're doing there for everyone. Listening and perhaps new to the podcast series will follow the same trajectory, a roadmap for today's podcast and follows the same trajectories, all of those in the series with our inquiry line. First looking at unpacking tomorrow's academic background and early professional life leading leading her up to father founding of Fit Collective. Then we'll turn straight to Unpacking Fit Collective. We'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, why, how, funding all of those things that may pertain to it. And then we'll get into the ethos and the philosophy behind what Tamara is doing with her vision there. We'll then turn our efforts towards unpacking and looking at the goals and plans that she has in the future for both the collective and her other work endeavors. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she may have. For those of you looking to get involved with fit, collective and or emulate some of her career success. Before I begin peppering Tamara with questions, I'll read a quick bio on hers that can garner a bit of her background prior to her describing herself. Tomorrows life purpose is to empower females working in technology to live a balanced and purposeful life. She founded Fit Collective to create a global support network for females working in tech or considering information technology as a career. Along the way, tomorrow spent eight years as a circus performer, graduated from Bond University with a Bachelors of Business and accounting, then moved into recruitment before finding her joy in technology. Tomorrow now works for Salesforce, one of the leading technology companies globally as a senior solution engineer. Since founding her business, Tamara has been awarded the top five leading ladies in tech on Instagram by women who code top blogs. Young women in technology should follow by code like a girl, a finalist for the air and women in I c t awards and a finalist in the Emerging Leader category of the Empowerment of Women Awards. So tomorrow, that's really exciting. You've had some like really quick early on success and I'm excited to kind of climb through what you're doing now and find out more about it. But before we do that, could you please, for our audience listening and watching today, kind of describe your academic background and early professional life that led you to where you are right now?

[00:04:23] Yeah, no problem. Did you want me to start back in the circus is that way?

[00:04:28] Yes. I want all of it. I do. And you can't drop a little tidbit like that without me just dying to hear more about it.

[00:04:35] Or I said so ever since I was a little girl, I was a sporty kid and I really enjoyed it and excelled in professional sport. So I went to state swimming, water polo. I was very good at dancing, gymnastics. But none of them had my heart. And it was one day when I was walking down Queen Straight and All in Brisbane and I saw these kids doing circus tricks. And I looked at my mum saying, Oh, my God. That is so cool. That's exactly what I want to do. And she's thinking, my gosh, tomorrow you are already doing a million other things. But okay, let's go to the game. So I started doing circus. At the age of 10 and by the age of fifteen, I moved out of home and was traveling all of Australia with a circus school. So I would still go to normal high school. But the teachers would come and tour with us to ensure that we did allow exam the same as every other normal kid would. At the same time. And we would schedule our tours and performances around those exam timetables. And my ultimate goal at that point was to be in display. That was that was the dream. And in my graduating year, when I was 18 years old, I had an injury and it wasn't surveyed. But it was enough for me to wake up and realize how dominant or how much my body needed to be fit and healthy for me to have a sustainable career at Circus.

[00:06:15] And everything that my parents said about moving out of home. I mean, at the time I was going to an all girls Catholic boarding school before I went to sex. So it was a big shift for them emotionally. So, yeah, everything just came rushing back of them saying that I needed a back. So I decided to listen as much as I didn't want to and put my head in the books and studied really, really hard. In my final year at school and ended up going to university in the Gold Christ, where I studied business management and accounting, and the goal was to just get my degree and then head back to circus. But that wasn't the case at all. I fell in love with university and left my circus career behind. And naturally, I excelled in accounting. So as any, I guess, university student would think. What you excel at. You should pursue. So I ended up getting a part time job in a tax accounting firm and then studying part time and then having three other casual jobs on the side to ensure that I could sustain the party life and buy all the new dresses that I wanted. And at the end of my degree, I realized how much I hated accounting and I thought it was really dull and really boring. And it wasn't for me and I could not stand to look at another tax or 10. I needed some more human interaction. So I was really, really lost at that point and I had no idea what I wanted to do. So I went to my parents for advice and I had two opportunities on the table. One was in change management at one of the top four firms here in Australia, and another was starting up a recruitment firm for an international recruitment agency in Melbourne. And I spoke to them at the time. I was like, what do you think I should do? And they said, Mary, you have two options. You can either be really small fish in a really big pond and start consulting on change management. When you have zeri industry experience and work really, really, really long hours, or you can really step outside of your comfort zone and start a recruitment firm and they you're going to learn how to sell, how to negotiate and build a really, really thick skin because not everyone likes recruiters.

[00:08:46] And so yeah, I decided to start a recruitment firm. I thought it's going to give me a really good perspective of all the industries out there and first hand knowledge of all of the different corporate coaches. And then after that, I'll know where I want to go and guide my career that way. So funnily enough, the recruitment side of the business that I was starting with s schools recruitment. And at the time I had no idea what SAS was, was I was like, what is it, CRM? I just don't understand. And so in the first week, I had to do a presentation to my managers at the time and about sousveillance and the type of candidates that we would hire by the end of the presentation. My manager said to me, When can we get sound? Supposing we need it as a CRM? And I was just so passionate about it. I would be the first one in the firm to be there in the morning researching about Marc Benioff and what technology he's just bought and the latest innovations. And I ended up spending more time learning about Salesforce than actually recruiting. And one day I decided to do what I did best. And that was take a day off and recruit. And I recruited myself into all of the different organizations that I knew had samples so specialized in samples, implementations and just said, look, I'm a junior. I don't know a lot. I've been studying sounds and really passionate about it. Would you give me a chance to work at your firm and I'll do whatever it takes? I work the long hours. I'll do whatever course. And two organizations had said yes. And I decided to go with the organization that specialized in marketing cloud, which is what I specialize in today. And I wouldn't say could not believe that they hired me. I had zero technical knowledge, zero technical skills. And within the first two weeks they put me on site with clients and building the platform. And I just fell so deeply in love with it, ended up being a developer. And then after two years, I got a job at Salesforce. So that's my career journey. I guess where I went, especially where I want to talk about, is with it. Collective came into that.

[00:11:13] Yeah, absolutely. What was the inspiration for launching a collective or was it something that germinated for a long time, or was it just something that kind of hit you one day?

[00:11:23] Well, being in recruitment and specializing in tech recruitment, it sounds folks recruitment. I started to notice how many men I was talking to, and at the time it wasn't an issue at all. I love men. I think they're great. I think they're really intellectual and very smart. And when I started my job at Kaleido, which was the partner that first hired me with serious technical skills. I very quickly realized that my team were olman, and that wasn't an issue at all. They didn't discriminate against me. They really looked after me. They gave me so many different opportunities. I wouldn't be where I am today without them. But I couldn't say what I couldn't see. And there was no senior management there at the time that were female. And I was lusting where my career path could go. So I started looking online for some tech events that I could attend and meet other women who were in tech. And I found some really, really great events with girls in tech and cried like a girl and they were just phenomenal. But the issue at the time was that I didn't have time to attend these events all the time working in tech. You do have implementation projects that require later hours at times. And I found myself signing up to these events, but not being able to go. So I looked online looking for some other career stories about women in tech. And the ones that I found I didn't feel were authentic. I felt like it highlighted all of the success, but it didn't talk about the challenges that women have to go through to get to where they are today. And they missed such a big piece of the puzzle, which was the life aspect. You know, it focused on the career. But what about the life? And what about falling pregnant and going on maternity leave and what it's like to come off maternity leave and the guilt that you have behind that? Why aren't we talking about that? Like, why is that seen as a weakness? So I started off with an Instagram account just to save. That was an audience out there. And if there were other women in tech who wanted that holistic view in that work life balance and being more purposeful in life, work and life. And my Instagram account just blew up and I thought, OK, this is an opportunity. Started a website and now it's time to into a podcast, which I absolutely love. And yeah, there's just so much that I want to do with it.

[00:13:51] So I'm curious, when your audience started to grow. Was it local? Did you. Did you make it immediately global or was it Australian?

[00:14:01] And was it largely women or female identified? Or did any of those profile elastic characteristics matter?

[00:14:09] Yes. So I thought that my audience would be predominantly in Australia. But it's actually masked mostly in the US, which is amazing. I love. I definitely want to go to the US again one day. I think it's such an incredible country. And. But I do have a lot of men as well. And that's not a problem for me at all because men are part of the picture. And that's what an equal workforce looks like. And we need them to have that do best by thinking when we need them to help us get to the levels that we deserve. So it was global. Straight away, us predominant. And then I would say Australia and then the Asian countries.

[00:14:53] OK, let's get into some of the logistics. So am I correct? It's a fit collective stands for females in information technology.

[00:15:03] OK. And so that's where you're getting the acronym. When was it founded? Did you take any funding? Do you have any co-founders and. Yeah. Let's start with those three.

[00:15:15] OK. Awesome. So the website started May 2018 and that was just made blogging about my experience as a female in tech and talking about the different areas of life. So tech well-being and balance and getting other women in tech to share their stories and their advice and how they got to where they are today and what I found in doing that. It was very time consuming and I'm not a natural writer at all. That's something that I've struggled with. Having a mother who comes from the Netherlands, I guess her English wasn't his strong suit, ADA. So it was very time consuming for me. And I thought I was doing a disservice to those women by not sharing their stories to a wider audience. So that's when my partner, Joe Norson, thought that launching a podcast would be a great idea. So the podcast launched in September 2019, and it's absolutely skyrocketed since then. And I love doing it.

[00:16:21] And then your last question was about the fandoms reality. Yeah. You and what did you found it alone. And since have you brought on other founders? If so, and did you bootstrap or get funding?

[00:16:33] So will I. So I founded it by myself initially, but my partner, Joan Auton, I would also classify him as a puppet found on whether he likes it or not. But it honestly wouldn't be where it is today without him. I wouldn't have slept through so many hoops outside of my comfort zone to launch the bug and the website. And he's very technical and helped me a lot with the Web site and is a very good writer. So you raids and edits everything that I write. So I definitely classify him as a founder, if not the same, when helping me lead the way. And in terms of funding, no, it's all self-funded by myself. So I'm very grateful that I do have a very good salary at Salesforce to help fund my business. But it is getting to the stage where, you know, I am looking for sponsorship. I'm really hoping to increase the amount of podcasts that I release and start advertising on there. But it's a fine line of adding ads to a podcast and making sure those ads are helping my audience. I don't want ads that aren't relevant or that are disrupting their listening and it's not bringing value to them. So, yeah, it's a very fine line. And if you have any advice, I'd love to know how.

[00:17:57] Well, I. The same. No, I think you're right to be very considerate.

[00:18:01] I host four different podcasts and I, I take myself seriously because of the communities that I'm speaking with. Not on the whole as a person, I don't think I take myself that seriously. However, working with women and female identified non binary individuals such as yourself and telling the professional chronicles over the past three years, it's been a struggle. I haven't done a lot of partnerships and sponsorships. We've had offers for acquisition that couldn't go through simply because I couldn't guarantee the authenticity and value staying the same to those audiences. I think it depends on the niche market. You speaking to women? I think that's getting better. I think that the actual industry is growing up before our eyes. Podcasting is was very much so still the Wild West three years ago. And now there seems to be some kind of a tenor, you know, and an appropriate following and things like that. And even though there's still variance in how people put them out, I was always like, where's the structure? Like, how do I know what I'm getting? And I think a lot of those things are carrying over into sponsorship and partnership as well. I think the people are starting to get that. You don't want to just go rogue and have some anti female ads suddenly on your, you know, female podcast. That would be daunting. So I do think that that is happening before our eyes. But I do think you are also very wise to consider those kinds of aspects before you just kind of throw it all into the wind, because you do you have an onus, you have a responsibility to this community that's been sharing stories with you and listening to each other's stories and things like that. And so there's there's a reference, at least for me, that I think is required. I love your work, like your website design. I think it's very clean. There's been a lot of change. I originally came up in Silicon Valley and, you know, the newest rage and stuff like that with website design can be like the worst color of orange for a prom dress that you've ever seen. Like, it's just kind of like you can't fall too quickly for, like, the new things because they're very fad, like. And so I like that your site has like a classic timelessness to it, which I feel like any site that's supposed to be for a collective or that kind of a word has a lot of heti meaning for me. And so I like the the design and what it looks like. But I also like that you very judiciously and succinctly get into like a clear mission, you know, about what you what you're meant to do, what you what you're intending for, the collective and things like that. And I want to kind of ask you about that. I grabbed the quote you it's from your site. It says, Our vision is for 50 percent of the global information technology workforce to be female. And I think that that kind of a mission is cool. I think it's important to say those kinds of things, even though it's it's a lot, you know, it's it's a lot of people would say that and be like maybe, you know, there's a lot that goes along with that. But I like that you're stating it. You also talk about transparency and communication and all of these values that you really you uphold in the collective. And I want to kind of unpack that a little bit more and see where some of the future or current action items are in how they're meeting up with those philosophies. So can can you kind of speak two main areas of conversation that your collective is happening or are there initiatives that people are getting behind? Is it as much as petitions being signed or are there any things that people are actually doing to start putting some of these goals into actual work, real action items?

[00:21:36] Yeah, there is a lot that's happening. And I'm so grateful that a lot of Mella allies are running these petitions and pushing for regulations to be changed. So in Australia, there's a lot happening with equal pay and southpaws. That itself has you know, I think they've balanced the pay by twelve million dollars now to ensure that all of the employees, no matter what race, gender, religion, that they're paid the equal as their colleagues. There is a lot of movement like that happening and having paternity leave. So giving men the option to be able to take that paternity leave. Scandinavia's definitely leading the way. Then they make it mandatory. So you either use it or lose it. So when an employer is looking to hire male or female, both of them could have the opportunity to take twelve months of the year. So there's no discrimination and there's no unconscious bias when hiring a male or female. So that's knocked off the park straight away. That is a lot of it's not. Some organizations are a little bit more aggressive, and that's not the approach that I would like to take. Like I mentioned before, men are out of the picture. And Fickett Collective isn't about females taking over the world. It's just about simple equality.

[00:23:03] And it's funny when you look more and more into it and say how many aspects of the organization molded to fit a man's world. So, for example, the air conditioning, that's at a level that is most comfortable to men and not women. Women like it a little bit more woma. So it's just simple things like that that organizations are becoming more aware of. And I don't think any organization is purposefully making unconscious bias or discriminate discrimination against any gender or religion or so forth. I think it's just more about being open and aware of what is equal and that we're not asking for anything more than what a man would ask for. So there is a lot happening. I wouldn't say this petition, so forth. I don't think we need to get ahead. But there are slightly changing regulations all over the Web.

[00:24:00] Do you make goals? And if so, is it a collective? How does it work when you have so many people kind of belonging to this union? And has that changed since the launch?

[00:24:12] Do you make goals as to what you would like to see it be a part of what you would like to see fit? Collective have. It's like some print on its like signature too. Or are you still kind of forming that?

[00:24:28] Yeah, it's, it's funny because I'm so passionate about it collective and I'm so passionate about Salesforce. I could not think about losing one of the other. So I'm very big goes by. But then it comes that whole lot of balancing and fame really stake in what you can and can't achieve. So I guess within the first next three years, what I would like to do is really increase the cost, because that is saying such an incredible shift. And the reviews and the direct message, things that I get on Instagram and on LinkedIn, I just mind. And I have a best selling authors contacting me, asking me to be on their podcast. And I have women messaging me, opening up to the stories that they've had that they resonated with some of the guests that I've had on the show. Like, it's just it honestly, those guys would cry because I'm so grateful to be able to have that impact on a female and make them feel like that they can have it all and that they can pursue their wildest dreams and they are worthy of receiving that. So the first one to call is increasing that tech podcast frequency. So currently it's fortnightly and so hopefully get it to weekly, then create a number of eight learning programs to really help women in tech accelerate their career. So I've got one. Got a few ideas, but I've got one that's due to be launched soon. And then I have a really ambitious idea, and that's to develop an and pay for a female centric productivity app. So I'm super excited about bots and as well as, you know, really big goals for Salesforce as well. So really big goes there. And I'm very ambitious to get them. But as long as I'm putting my mental and physical health as a priority, because that's everything that I talk about and it's really important and then not intact, then you can't possibly table the goals that you want to.

[00:26:37] That's absolutely true. And it's it's good to recognize it young.

[00:26:41] I think a lot of the women that I speak to and female identified individuals are, you know, in a place of of a little bit more pain and sacrifice after they've come to that conclusion. It's good to recognize that at a younger age. I'm curious about your podcast. And I'm I so I had the opportunity. You're in Australia. We talked about this prerecording and I had the opportunity to be in Sydney and actually do a couple of podcasts there. And I went to a meetup group based on local podcasters there and had the opportunity to speak in and kind of share the platform idea. I wasn't sure how different it would be where you're at versus my side of the globe. But I did learn that there is a lot of different networks and there's a lot of different ways, like you said, ads and things like that. There's a lot of podcasters in the states that are just, you know, cow people. They will just kind of up and bootstrap it all and just figure it out as they go. And they don't really think about those things. And I found at least a lot of my Australian counterparts to be very thoughtful and particular. At said that at that pace that they were finally out. When I am when I met up with them at the Meetup group and I'm wondering with you. Are you on? So I know your podcast is you can locate it on your website. But are you hosted on other networks? You. Australia has a very famous podcasting female network that Kelly Glover. I interviewed her and she used to work for it, but it was one of the first ones I had ever even heard of, even including in the States. But I'm wondering if you have if you host it yourself or if it's nestled in different indexes, how does that work for you guys down under.

[00:28:25] Yes. So I didn't know about that old female podcast racing. You'll have to have to look out for her up after this episode. That's really interesting. Sorry, it's just on all the regular podcast channels like Apple and Spotify and Stanzler and Chain I Heart Radio. So on my Web site. I do think that. I have had a few emails lately that it is opening up into the Scandinavian countries and I just assumed that they would be there already. I don't know if you've had the same as well. So I would assume that it's that it's available globally. But that could be naive of me to think that.

[00:29:08] Well, I wasn't sure either.

[00:29:10] I actually did podcasts about a year and a half ago out of Sweden and Ireland, and I wasn't sure when I was there. And the people that I contacted, I gave them just my natural like I tune Spotify address. And and I did get notifications. They were all able to access it. But I also got notifications that they're kind of doing their own hosting of channels and things like that. I think people again, you know, you're kind of witnessing the toddler doom of of podcasting. It's growing up before our eyes, which is kind of a ride. I mean, you how how frequently can you say that? It's like being around when the computer first launched, it would have been a riot. So that's interesting. So I'm wondering, given that you're doing this within the podcasting, as you know, this kind of beloved creature of yours, how is it based? Are you doing an all interview based? How are you running a length? Are you picking topics? Are you lousing the collective to weigh in on what is spoken about? How does all of that work when you're doing your fortnightly podcast?

[00:30:10] Yeah. So it's a combination. So when I first started, because I was a bit nervous thing behind the mike, I thought that someone would just be my partner, Joel and I, talking about some of the challenges that women in tech face and how to overcome them, as well as acknowledging some of the discrimination that men have as well. Second, for example, you know, I don't know if you have them in the States, but Father's Day Marquises is typically at seven a.m. and then Mother's Day breakfast is at 10 a.m. So there's discrimination on both ways. Assuming that the father is working and the mother is not just talking about some of those things and that it's also difficult for men to leave work early to pick up that child, it's often that thinking, well, why isn't the female doing that? So this discrimination bikeway. So I really want to have him on the show to have it ensure that we have that collective, at least from a male and female standpoint. And just in my preliminary launch, I hadn't even launched a podcast yet. It was just all marketing and showing little sound bites of the podcast. I actually had the CIO of Susan Group, which is a huge Aussie fashion brand here in Australia, contacted me saying I wanted to be on your cost and I'd love to be interviewed. And I'm looking at my Poncho's thinking what this was meant to be. Season two, I'm not ready to interview people, especially not a CIO of a major fashion company. You're kidding. And then just like, what are you doing? Forget season one. Get her on the show. You just need to learn and guide for it is sort of being ad hoc since then. I definitely get the input of my collective. I ask all the time on Instagram what are the topics that they want me to talk bad? Or I ask specific questions like what are some of the challenges that they're facing currently right now and get their input. And we do talk about a lot of those topics. And then with the interviews with the guests, I've been very fortunate. A lot of them have come to me to be on the podcast, and I initially have a 30 minute conversation with them and look at their background and had some ideas of the topics that we can talk about and then get a feel of what they're comfortable in and what they're passionate about and what is the impacts that they want to make. When the podcast is finished. How do they want to transform a female and text lives? Or how do they want to help a male ally help women in tech get to the top?

[00:32:43] So, you know, it's it's definitely very collaborative. And I am. Very proud that they guess that I've had on the show a very authentic and talk about the challenges. That's really, really important to me. And I do try my best to pull them out and be vulnerable and open because that's where people really start to relate. So, yes, it's definitely a combination of everything that you talked about.

[00:33:10] Just fantastic. I think the goal to I mean, you know, Melinda Gates was telling David Letterman on his inquiry's show that launched a couple of years ago.

[00:33:19] She just said, listen, if we have to keep women at the table, there's less women in tech right now than 10 years ago. And it's a huge concern for, you know, women who are allied to women in tech or women who are in tech. I have two daughters for that reason alone. I mean, you know, it's it's scary to think that we're losing our place at the table because we will lose our voice in the future. And the future is tech. And we want to have a seat at that table. And we need about 50 percent of those seats. Not one, you know. And so I think it's so crucial to have organizations like yours and Fit Collective like out there sharing stories, making sure we're still having these important conversations.

[00:34:02] And to be clear, you know, pay parity, sexism across all boards, across all genders, it services nobody. Men lose out, women lose out. Non binary people we all lose. There I can show everyone that paradigm very, very quickly. Any kind of bigotry actually doesn't service to society very well. And that's why ones that go about eliminating it have a happier work life balance and just a happier citizenship in general. So it's definitely for you know, I have two boys and two girls and it's for everyone. But I do think that your mission is as audacious and awesome and I love it. Olympic collective. I love everything about it. We're wrapping up and running out of time, which I wish we weren't going to. I mean, I'll go into my final question, which I am I'm known for. It's one of my favorite. Everyone's like, are you ever going to change it? I was like, No, never. And I'll be forever. So if you were at a safe social distance from someone and a gardener a park tomorrow and they walked up to you and it was a young woman or female identified not by an individual, anyone other than a straight white male for purposes of this podcast. And they said, listen, tomorrow, I'm so glad I caught you. So check it out. I know I had this incredible background in sport. And I am. I went in to uni. I got my stuff done. I thought I was gonna go back to the spa and up not doing it. And then it turned out that I was setting something at uni that I had to kind of pivot. Then people gave me two options and I chose the harder of the option. I found my niche. I found this company. This works that I'm obsessed with. And I'm getting ready to launch this this side Passion Hustle project that I'm just I'm related to do it, but I'm getting ready to do it without a whole lot of mentorship. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?

[00:35:57] I would definitely say ensure that this is your purpose. The purpose is very different to following your passion. And I think a lot of people get confused between the two and your passions change, just like in my story. My passion was circus than it was accounting. But they change your purpose, doesn't it? And I was very, very grateful to find that very early in my life. And it is tough finding it. You have to dig really, really deep and open all the skeletons out of your closet to understand what that is. Because if you follow your passion, you end up just creating a job for yourself. And that's no different to what you are doing today. Whereas if you follow your purpose, you're intrinsically motivated to continue even through the most challenging times. So I'd say that would be the first piece of advice. The second is just get started. It's so easy to get caught in a trap of striving for perfection, whereas you just need to get it and they pay out that test the market. Is there an audience? I start with an instant. Family can do whatever way that works for you. And then just test it. Right. Test it. Right. And then you evolve and build a product that you're really, really proud of. And the third one, if I can only choose three to get a mentor, I wouldn't be where I am today without my mentors. So with that, my partner, John Wharton, and the mentors that I have at schools and outside of Salesforce, they are a big part of where I am today.

[00:37:29] Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not sure the end the word mentor, like there's a lot of people calling it different things, but I, I don't know of anyone who got to happiness or the top of a mountain or hill without some kind of an advisor, teacher, a mentor that they could really guide themselves by.

[00:37:47] All right. So I've got to ensure that this is your purpose. It's different from your passion. So recognize what your purposes and make sure that this endeavors that just get started and get a mentor. Absolutely. Yeah. Fantastic. Those are perfect. Three, I love this. And they really do cross like industry genre. Like you could tell that to a young artist. It's perfect. The next biochemist.

[00:38:12] Well, Tamara we're out of time, but I wish we weren't. And I thank you so much.

[00:38:16] I know you got up early for this and I know you're busy. Everyone is. But you in particular. And I really appreciate you sharing your story and your candor and all of your information with us today.

[00:38:28] Thank you so much, Patricia. I've had a lot of fun, and I wish you all the success that I'm looking forward to here in the process when it gets launched.

[00:38:35] You bet. You as well. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Tamara Johanna clink and you can find out more. She's the founder of Fit Collective. And you can look it up online. It's Ficke collective dot com.

[00:38:48] Thank you for giving us your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte!

View Details

Today I chat with Lynn Power. Lynn is a longtime ad agency executive with a love for beauty. She's been fortunate to work on many iconic brands, including the Gillette Venus global marketing launch, Clinique global, L'Oreal Natural Match launch and VIVE relaunch, Nexxus repositioning, Vichy positioning and La Roche-Posay and St. Ives. She has done lots of other categories too including American Express, Hershey's, Campari, Kimberly-Clark, Nestle, T. Rowe Price. . . She loves building teams, reinventing cultures and disruption. Lynn is currently the CEO of MASAMI (Botanical hair products).

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with CEO of botanical hair company Masami Lynn Power. Key points addressed where Lynn Dynamic 25 year history as a top level exhibit in New York City's elite ad agencies and her new endeavor at Masami, an organic and Vegan hair care line with a devout backing and responsible and ethical ingredients and ethos. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Lynn Power.

[00:00:32] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:29] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia, today. I am so excited to be sitting down with Lynn Power.

[00:01:34] Lynn is the CEO of Masami, which is a botanical hair product company. You can find out more about her and the company at w w w dot. Love Masami dot com. That is l o v e m a. S a. Am I dot com. Welcome, Lynn.

[00:01:51] Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:53] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of climb through your personal background as well as Masami, the company. I actually really like a lot of the direction that it's headed and it has a lot of very similar constituents to the work that we do. Patricia, Kathleen Podcast's, in regards to responsibility towards the Earth and everything that it's doing for everyone listening. I will read a brief bio on Lynn before I start peppering her with questions. But prior to that, a quick road map for today's podcast. For those of you that are new, it's following the same trajectory. The four core constituents that all of them in podcast series. This one do cover. So we will first look at Lynn, academic background and early professional life. Then we'll turn towards and packing Masumi. We'll get into logistics about who, what, when, where, why, how founders', how long it's been around all of those things, what it is, the products. And then we'll turn to the ethos and some of the philosophy that this particular company actually enumerates on quite beautifully and has a lot to say about that. Our third point, we'll reach in two Lynn's goals and plans for the next one to three years and both with Mussomeli and maybe personally. And how this to kind of intertwine. We'll wrap everything up with advice that she has regarding her success, her legacy, what she's done with her professional life and her current work. But prior to that, as promised, a quick bio on Lynn. Lynn is a longtime ad agency executive with a love for beauty. She's been fortunate enough to work on many iconic brands, including the Gillette, Venus Global Marketing Launch, Clinique Global L'Oreal Natural Match Launch and Veev Relaunch Nexus Repositioning, Vicha Positioning and Larocque Laroque Post say. I'm probably not saying what is right. I'll let Lin correct me in a second. And St. Ives. She has done lots of other categories too, including American Express, Hershey's, Campari, Kimberly Clark Ness, Nazli T. Rowe Price. She loves building TMD and reinventing cultures and disruption, which I love that you can contact her at her current position and find more about the website again at w w w dot love Masami dot com. So Lynn, I. You've had an amazing career you've worked with. There's not a personal life that hasn't heard of one of these brands and the ad agency. One can only imagine the kind of wealth that you've developed. And I am hoping that you can prior to unpacking less of me, I'm hoping you can kind of walk us through an understanding or summary of your academic background and professional life prior to go into Masami.

[00:04:32] Yeah, sure. So unlike my children today who are 19 and 17 and are kind of now having to figure out what they're wanting to do and figure out their majors very early.

[00:04:47] I had no idea.

[00:04:50] And I actually was a double major of criminal justice and English. And I was thinking for a hot minute that I was going to go into law school. But then I was like, oh, that's just boring. I can't do that. So then I decided I wanted to go into the FBI and I went through the whole application process and it was nineteen eighty nine. And there was a hiring freeze. It was a recession. And I got kind of a form letter back saying thanks but no thanks. You know, you've kind of you've made the you've made the list supposedly, but we're not hiring. So check back in in six months kind of thing. I was living at home at my parents' house, so I was like, that's just not going to work. So I met a recruiter who sent me on an interview for advertising and she said, this is what you're gonna do. And I was like, oh, I hadn't really thought about it. It was interesting, but I didn't go to school for it at all. I've never taken up advertising or marketing class and set me on an interview. And I was a really good typist. And so they hired me as a receptionist. And from there, I just love the culture, the creativity. And I kind of was able to just work my way up and I just I just really enjoyed it. So, you know, I went from a small agency in Chicago to a bigger agency in Chicago. And then I met my my boyfriend now husband at the time we moved to New York. And then, you know, I was able to at least stretch stretch my wings at the New York shops. And I worked at several of the of the large funds all the way up until. My last job at J. Walter Thompson, I was CEO of the New York office.

[00:06:32] Wow, amazing. It does. So it is for everyone listening. You know, I have this very Hollywood version of the advertising agency.

[00:06:40] I must say, like, my internal knowledge is probably limited to what I've seen on, like, Mad Men or something.

[00:06:46] But I'm wondering, is it is it is it is New York City really the kind of the nexus of advertising its kind of perceived? You know, I think among a lot of lay people as like this heart, this heart throb heart center of the advertising world, would you concur with that?

[00:07:02] Yeah, I absolutely would. And I think if you're really serious about the business, you just can't beat the experience you get at a New York agency. So you don't have to do it forever. I thought I was going to do it for two years maybe. And then I ended up being in New York for 25 years. You are kind of just grabs you and doesn't let go, you know, and you just have to go with it.

[00:07:25] It's amazing the time period that you were in as well. I mean, and it's probably it's probably my age. I'm forty three.

[00:07:31] But, you know, that time period and advertising, it went through almost a diabolical, like up and down. I feel like the 80s, the 90s and the 90s in particular, you know, it was a disconnect, a reconnect. It is particularly because the society itself was like having these schizophrenic breaks with health and things like that that were so pushed, you know, in the advertising industry. But like fat free, sugar free additives, this that preservatives, like all these different things that were kind of chronicled in a lot of different caveats in society. But I imagine it would have been a really wild ride to be involved in during that time period. Would you? Do you think you feel that way now or looking back, do you think now the advent of social media really shook things up? It was the OTS that really changed things?

[00:08:17] No, it was definitely an interesting industry to be in for sure. It's changed massively. I mean, there's so many things that have changed about it since I started. You know, primarily the the way that the industry was was monetized was through people and hours. And clients just don't pay the kind of fees anymore. So you don't have the ability to put the people in the hours and all that stuff. So there's a lot of there's there's a huge sort of seismic shift happening and things being much more accountable, things being working, obviously digital and more analytical, you know, so creativity has become more analytical. But I was definitely very much in still felt like the Madmen era, looking back where I didn't you know, I grew up with two brothers. I'm very comfortable around men. So I wasn't sort of as overtly aware at the time of of the sort of sexism. I mean, I knew it was there. But looking back, of course, I go, oh, my God, I can't believe that happens, you know, because today you wouldn't you wouldn't allow those some of those things to happen. But, you know, at the time when you're in it and you're kind of looking around and there aren't many other women, you just sort of try to do what you can do to to, you know, prove yourself. And I'm lucky that I never had any sexual assault or any, you know, any anything other than, you know, sort of verbal and verbal dressing down kind of things happen.

[00:10:03] I'm wondering, as a female who climbed through the ranks, did you know of any others? Were you friends with other women or women identified or non binary individuals that were also hitting like this successful stride of climbing that corporate ladder?

[00:10:19] Or were you all alone? It was changed throughout the years. You know, there was a time when I was in one of the agencies I worked at, I was pretty much the top woman there. And I will say, unfortunately, a lot of the female bosses I had in my early years were really bad bosses. It's almost like they felt they had to operate like men and be these tyrants. And it actually helps form my leadership style because I didn't want to be like that. I was like, wow, if that's how you think you have to behave to get people in line, that is not good. So, you know, it's almost like when you're raising kids and they do the opposite of what you tell them, you know, it's like I had a lot of role models that were really bad, actually. And I kind of decided when I got to senior enough point that I don't want to emulate this very rough, rough male swagger, arrogance, you know, that's not at all who I am. And if people don't like it and I don't get promoted anymore, well, then fine.

[00:11:37] That's just the way it is. But I think I was lucky that.

[00:11:44] I think the female leadership traits are more effective, ultimately listening, being more transparent, you know, having vulnerability. I think those are things that people actually appreciate. So, you know, I think any women listening out there, you know, those are things you should embrace. You should not shy away from.

[00:12:06] Yeah. Particularly for your industry.

[00:12:08] It's always shocking to me when someone says, you know, that the creative or more discussion oriented or ideas sharing personality doesn't survive in creative endeavors like advertising. I cannot see a doctor, you know, who chain smokes and drinks like a fish. It's just like what does your her expertize isn't being lived out, you know? And I. I wonder when as you climb up through the ranks, you yourself be turned to hiring and things of that nature. What kind of personalities were you kind of bringing on to work with you and under you to kind of facilitate what you're describing here, which is just a more. It sounds to me like a more communicative environment.

[00:12:49] I mean, I was always overtly hiring women and diverse people. I would demand my H.R. teams find those candidates, even though it's harder to find. And, you know, I wouldn't always hire them, but but I made a point of, you know, really trying to lean in heavily and bring in women and bring in people of color. And I heard a guy in a wheelchair. People said to me, you're crazy milk travel. You know, what are we? He was great. No issue. But I think I think you just have to kind of demand that. And then in terms of the traits of the people, I always look for people that are curious, you know, that that are not close minded people that want to learn, people that are not afraid to, you know, learn from above, but also learn from the people under them in the sense of like I get a lot of learning these days from my children and from younger people that I that I work with. And it's really a two way street. So as much as, you know, sometimes they look to me for my experience. I look to them for their know how when it comes to tick tock or. And yet many other things that I don't understand. Right. So I think it really is about that vulnerability of admitting what you don't know. Being open and willing and curious. And I think those traits will get you pretty far.

[00:14:20] Yeah. And cognitive functioning, you know, and studies done. Geriatric communities would back you up on that one. You know, staying curious, which are people you hired and then you're doing yourself, you know, is linked to longevity of the mind of the vital mind and cognition.

[00:14:35] So I think those span all throughout life, not just the advertising industry. I think that's fantastic. I'm wondering with the I like what you said, and I'm hoping to just get you to enumerate a little bit on it, because it you just reverse the power structure that I think most people feel like H.R. and hiring has. You said I would make my H.R. team go out and find those people. And I think that there's a lot of conversation, particularly in female female identified and non binary communities where people say, like, well, I want to hire a woman led company, but I can't find any like I don't know. And it's it's becomes this crutch, you know, not just for these communities, but for people outside of those communities to not say they're not represented. You know, I'm not most familiar with female female identified, non binary and computer engineers, people saying I want to hire more female tech nerds, but they're not out there. They're not, you know, and you switching that dialog and taking that power and saying, no, you go find them to H.R. is such a novel idea.

[00:15:37] I've never heard anyone describe it that way. What what kind of incited you to do that? Were you just determined to have it and you made them go out and find it? Because I could. Eight years is very good at saying. Here you go. This is all we got.

[00:15:49] You know, any industry what I figured out is like shit in, shit out. Right. So, you know, if you give them a shitty brief, they're gonna give you shitty candidate. I'm not saying, look, good shit, but they'll give you what you ask for. Yeah. And usually it's the same old. Same old. And what I believe in and I'm actually quite good at it. It's one of my superpowers is building teams and I'm really good at identifying talent. And thankfully so I don't have to do everything to bring in people that are great. And I've always hired on potential, not on proven capability, meaning you just have to widen the net a little bit, you know, because if you only hire people for the Campari account that have worked in liquor and, oh, I need somebody who actually worked in brown spirits, you know, that kind of thing. And, oh, I want them to be this kind of education. You're going to find candidates that look exactly alike, that are just like the people that left that job. And a lot of times they do tend to be very, you know, either their. I want to say, you know. Maybe they're white guys. But but but but even beyond that, they tend to go to the same schools. They tend to have some of the same experiences and have worked at similar places. And I've just always believed that you're going to get better creativity when you find people that come from different, completely different walks of life, different industries, different. So I never cared about where I went to school. I literally couldn't care. And so I think once you open up the ability to find candidates that look a little different. And I'd say, you know what? I actually don't want to hire someone for that job that has any lack of experience. I want to bring in somebody that, you know, maybe they've works in event marketing or maybe they've done something in PR or, you know, something related. But but useful. Then you can find those interesting candidates and then, you know. It was a lot easier for the H.R. people because if I if I was hammering away at finding me that same candidate but, you know, find me a black woman who's done it. That's hard. Hanukkah's because she hasn't been given the opportunity to do that job before. Absolutely.

[00:18:06] I'm wondering, how did you. Do you have any. I'll leave this point alone. I promise. I know this is my third question to her, but I'm so taken with it, I.

[00:18:14] Do you have any, like, tricks that you developed, even subconsciously in order to help you? I mean, this superpower of, you know, super hero power, a building super tenuous, is like everybody wants that. You know, that's the key to success. People build industries just to try to take a taste of it. And so I'm wondering, did you personally ever develop this kind of technique or specific thing that you did when you went looking to build these super teams that enabled you to do that you can share?

[00:18:47] You know, I wish I did. I wish I could say, oh, it's just this, you know, do one one, two, three. And you're you're there. But I think a lot of it is intuition. And part of it is building that muscle of knowing what works. And what I would say is one thing I did. That is a very tactical, tangible thing anyone can do. And I've done my pretty much my whole career, but much more aggressively in my later years of my career. I would meet with. Anywhere between three and five new people that I didn't know a week, and sometimes it would be for a job, but a lot of times it wasn't. It was just I got introduced to this person from somebody else and they sound interesting. And let's grab a coffee. And I think when you do that, you can start to your brain creates these like neural networks where you can connect the dots. And I go, oh, the thing that person did was so interesting. I would love to have that skill set. And in my team, I find somebody who's got some of that, you know what I mean? And you just start to build these bridges and start to become inspired by by all these different. But I think I think a lot of that came from meeting all these different people all the time. And I would meet people outside my industry and I would just meet interesting people. And, you know, I think people started to kind of know like if they reached out to me on LinkedIn, chances are I'm going, oh, sure, I'll meet with you, you know. Now, I can get a little crazy, obviously. Yeah. You got to protect your own schedule somewhat. But no. But I think, you know, it's not that hard to carve out a few hours a week. And, you know, sometimes nothing would come from it. But a lot of times it would either be like, oh, I actually know somebody who could help you and what you're trying to do or you just inspired me to give me a great idea on something that I'm working on. Or it just there's a lot of serendipity, but it kind of forces the serendipity. You know what I mean?

[00:20:46] Yeah, absolutely. And I like it. And it was I think it was a lot trickier to do that back in the day, you know, without social media and things like that.

[00:20:54] You kind of had to do this seven degrees of Kevin Bacon thing and, you know, so said what's going on there? And I'm curious, I want to start looking at unpacking Masami and and all of the cool things that that company is doing. Is that your sole endeavor at this moment is serving as their CEO or do you run any other side gigs or consulting firms, anything like that?

[00:21:17] Yeah, I wish I could say it was my sole endeavor because I love it. It's my baby, but I probably spend about 90 percent of my time doing that.

[00:21:26] I still do a little consulting because I had started a brand consulting firm after I left J. Walter Thompson. It's called the HMS Beagle. So we work almost exclusively with startups and helping them get their kind of foundation and narrative and go to market plan.

[00:21:39] So I still do a little bit of that because I need like everyone else, you got to pay the bills. And on Masami, we when I met my partner. So my co-founder. So he and I basically are the co-founders of friends. We decided to do this together, but we decided to self-funded, you know. So we haven't taken investment money. I mean, my husband is basically our lead investor. I could say that, but. So, you know, it literally is our baby. And every every dollar we get back, we're putting back into the business. So tell us. A little strapped. Yeah. Super bootstrapped. But this is where, you know, I am lucky because I've built a team that is pretty committed to the business that is all kind of equity based. So they're all sort of partners in the company. And I could not do it without them. Or sure.

[00:22:42] Let's get into it. I want to know. So you were a CO felt you were a founder.

[00:22:46] How many other founders were there and when was it launched?

[00:22:52] So it's just James and I were the two founders of the company. James is my partner. He had been working on these hair care formulations for almost 10 years. When I met him, he's he's a bit of a nutty professor in the best way possible. I say that with love. He worked at Clairol for about 20 years and worked on a bunch of other Pudi brands. And he was the guy, the Uber producer, that would book a lot of the models and would be the one that would get yelled at when he had to color their hair and colored back and it would be fried. So he just started to feel like there's got to be a product out there that's not going to, you know, that's going to actually hydrate and help their hair. And also not have all the toxins that the products on the market have. So he started doing research into formulations. And our product is really inspired by his husband, Mozza. Hence, the name Masami Massa is Japanese. He's from northeast Japan.

[00:23:55] And Masami also means truly beautiful, by the way, in Japanese. So that was another serendipitous moment when we found that out. Yes. But, James, you would go home with Mozza. And he was always amazed at how young massas family looked and how healthy. And, you know, the Japanese have the lungs. Life expectancy in the world. And so James started doing some digging into their diet and saw that they were consuming this ocean botanical comic copy that comes right out of their bay pretty much every day.

[00:24:22] But they would also grind it up and put it in their skin care in their haircare and began playing around with that as potentially the answer for hydration, which it was.

[00:24:33] But by the time I met James, he had the products about eighty, eighty, eighty five percent done.

[00:24:40] And he just didn't know what else to do. He's not a marketer. He's not a brand guy. And he. Yes. So we met and he was kind of taking me through everything. I was super skeptical. Because as someone who's done a lot of marketing. I usually have a product that's kind of shit. And you have to make it sound great. And I'm just I'm not used to having a product that's absolutely amazing already, you know? And so we did a little more tweaking to the formula to just clean it up a little bit more.

[00:25:12] We follow EU standards, which are much stricter than the US in terms of what goes in in the US market.

[00:25:18] People don't realize about 90 percent of the products on the market have toxic stuff in them. So, you know, people don't think it's much about the hair care.

[00:25:27] I think it's a little more there's more awareness and skin care casino. It's absorbing into your skin. But the reality is your scalp is actually one of the most absorbent areas of your body. And when you shampoo, when you're rubbing it in your head and it's got sulfates, impairments of phthalates, that's not very that's not very good. So part of what we wanted to do is, is create a product without that. But one of the reasons why it's it's so it's so disruptive is that most hair care products that are clean as we are are actually not very good performing products. Right.

[00:26:06] Yeah. And this in line is the dichotomy. And I spoke to you earlier about this, and I have another podcast.

[00:26:13] I'm tempting you on exploring Vegan worlds. And, you know, here Vegan they think of food. And if there's clothing designers that are sustainability, environmental impacts, there's all different angles and conversations with the Vegan empire. And this is one of the ones that they talk a lot about Vegan products. You know, people assume a couple of things. One that is naturally non toxics, which isn't always true. And also there tends to be on the plus side, there tends to be more of a conversation about what exactly the the Vegan conversation furthers responsibility and things like that. You know, they're supposed to be more of a packaging and things like that. And I'm curious how I looked at the philosophy. And I want to kind of climb into the institute and the studies about getting back into the environmental impact with Masami. Can you kind of speak to is it James who kind of led this research part institute to the product is actually James's husband, Mozza.

[00:27:18] So when we launched the brand and one of the things that was really important to us is to have a mission and a purpose and not just sell product. And we just are very big believers that when you take from the earth, you have to get back. It's just as simple as that. And so the area in northeast Japan where we get our my Cabu and we get it from a local family owned seaweed company, we've actually gone and visited them and saw their facility and really were very impressed with how they manage everything.

[00:27:51] Anyway, where were we get that? We they were devastated by the tsunami back in 2011. That still has not they feel that they haven't fully recovered from, believe it or not. So we were against serendipity, fortunate to find a guy named Kazoo Yoshino who moved from Tokyo. He was an I.T. director. And when the tsunami hit, he felt this calling to move up to Atsushi, this little tiny town, and it was facing flat. The town was pretty much flat.

[00:28:27] And he decided to go up there and help in his way of helping as he dives into the bay and he documents what's going on there with the growth with the ocean botanicals. And he was the one that figured out probably now would have been about two or three years ago that there was a huge sea urchin problem. The sea urchins had been washed into the bay and we're applying and we're basically eating all of the stuff that the people there relied on and had thrown the ecosystem completely out of balance. So anyway, we decided to form the Masami Institute, where we can donate part of our sales to help his research so that he's just got more resources to continue to do what he's been doing. And a lot of it is educating people. So the way he saw the sea urchins problem is he had people eat the sea urchins. So, you know, we're the top of the food chain. And it was like, wait a minute, you know, they're eating all of our good stuff. We should just eat them. And so he created a magazine and had all these sea urchin recipes because apparently in that region, people would eat sea urchins like on Christmas Day. It was like a delicacy. You know, it wasn't something they did all the time.

[00:29:44] And he really helped change it and get it basically get that whole bay back on track. So that's been really interesting. So, you know, in a perfect world, we'd like to not just fund his research, but but also move beyond that little tiny area of Japan that we're focused on. But one thing at a time. You know, our feeling was let's start where we can make an impact and then we'll move out from there.

[00:30:13] Cool. Can you speak to given, you know, your advertising and marketing career prior to coming on with Masami, I'm wondering, how have you kind of sculpted it's got this beautiful narrative that you've just kind of walked over with us with the environment and sustainability. And if you take you give back. And how has that played into the rhetoric that you try to communicate with marketing or packaging or any of those endeavors that you've looked at?

[00:30:42] Have you allowed that that dialog to carry through or pushed it through?

[00:30:47] I think there's a place for where you tell that story and then there's a place where people just want to know, does it work, you know?

[00:30:54] Yeah. Like, is it going to actually work? Does it hydrate my hair and all that stuff? So beauty's funny that way. I think that's why a lot of beauty brands have that way without having to have any purpose or give back because people are just, you know, want to just know that it's going to perform. Mm hmm. So, yeah. So I think as we've developed our content strategy and narrative, we've figured out when and where it was. World Ocean Day on yesterday, on the 8th. So that's a great place where we could kind of reinforce that message. And, you know, we try to do that regularly. I mean, my biggest challenge on us being a pro ocean brand is our plastic because we're in plastic bottles. You know that the hard part about being in hair care is that you're in the shower. So you have a limited number of aerials that you can work with. And glass is usually the go to for beauty brands. Right? Can't really be in glass bottles in the shower.

[00:31:51] So we are actually creating a large size, refillable, sustainable bottle that's beautiful.

[00:31:58] That will go in the shower that you can refill with cardboard packages. And I'm excited about that because I feel like that will help us. Yeah. And mitigate ah ah. Plastic issue.

[00:32:12] I've come to that myself. I dabble in depends on my ambition for the month.

[00:32:17] But I dabble in making I make all of our own hand soaps and I've dabbled in shampoos and conditioners. They don't work well. So I kind of quit. But I did get into the idea that I didn't want to keep filling plastic containers. Even reusing plastic, regardless of how safe, doesn't rub me overly well.

[00:32:35] And I came into this glass thing exactly that, you know, and a lot of metals, rust like there isn't a great solution there. So I really like the idea of this one. I think it's groundbreaking.

[00:32:47] I hope it is. I mean, we ended up because of exactly what you're saying. We looked at all different kinds of materials. And, you know, there's bamboo material. It gets moldy. There's there's just different issues. And so we ended up doing a ceramic bottle, which people say to me, and it can still break Mike. I know, but it's not going to have little shards of pain that you're gonna step on. It's going to break into chunks that you can just pick up and throw out and we'll send you a new you know what I mean? Yeah, it's a great idea. So I'm hoping I'm hoping that it sticks. I've had a fair amount of interest so far for preorder, but we're gonna try to get that thing made it out the next time. I hope for five months. It's hard to say with Kobe going on because timelines for a supply chain are all kind of out of whack right now. But anyway, supply chain is out of whack.

[00:33:32] However, I wonder, has interest peaked? You know, health has had Vegan community for any reason.

[00:33:38] Vegan by default, Vegan because of a montera has peaked, you know, over the past three months. Naturally, when you have a pandemic, breaking out makes everyone kind of requestion their own personal health all the way down to, you know, I think a lot of people started with food and things like that. It's just a natural dialog. And then very quickly got into, you know, I myself took and I've I've I've I fancy myself incredibly healthy and have had, like, new analysis and lenses applied to areas that I hadn't thought about with nail polish, you know. Yeah. Things that I should have been thinking about. But I imagine it has spiked for you. Have you guys been able to kind of at least have some chartable measure as to interest since the pandemic has taken hold?

[00:34:21] I mean, yes, but the tricky thing for us is we launched in February. It's sort of like we don't really have a benchmark because we launched at New York Fashion Week a couple weeks right before everything was shut down.

[00:34:35] And we had a you know, in March, it was very up and down. There were two weeks where it was crickets. And I was like, oh, shit. Now then. But then business would pick up again. And I. I do think what you're saying is true, though. The conversations and searching.

[00:34:52] Or solutions that are less toxic, that are clean beauty, that are blue beauty, I think are all happening right now and obviously we are a brand that fits all that. But on top of that, we actually work. So to me, that's like our Holy Grail is.

[00:35:08] Yeah, that's the thing with it, at least with shampoo. And mind you, I'm not a mixologist and I don't pretend to be a chemist, but it's kind of an issue for anyone that's tried to go that route due to toxins or any other thing.

[00:35:23] You know, I flip over free trade, great like sounding shampoos. And the ingredient list is like ninety thousand. And I'm a, you know, masters educated woman and I don't know what half of them are. It's just it's it's lunacy to think that it's still out there like that and not being vilified. So yours working is clean enough. You know, like there's amazing being Vegan it working, like having all of these things. The new ceramic thing, it sounds it sounds amazing. Have you guys projected. I know it's. This is like asking someone about another child when you're in labor. People like how could you ask that? But right now, because, you know, Cauvin has just thrown everyone through an incredible whirlwind. But have you kind of looked at your next one to three year projections as to where you guys would like to be even considering the pandemic and the change that that's happened? And if so, where do you where do you see your sights for your goals for the future?

[00:36:22] Yeah, I mean, I think we're pretty good about doing the rigorous, you know, business metrics. So we have got five year projections.

[00:36:31] I think part of it for us is expanding our footprint and really developing some Ceylan partnerships here in the US. But also launching some more products were we're very much into the Japanese simplicity had space, meaning we're not going to launch another shampoo.

[00:36:49] We're not going to be a brand that has five variants of shampoos are one variant works for virtually everyone. And when it when you get the hydration, you get shine, you get manageability to get volume. It works for color treated hair like you don't need another version of our shampoo. But we are going to launch things like a hair mast, you know, a beard bomb because our products are gender neutral. So I really want to lean into that a little bit more. Yeah. We've got some stuff in the pipeline there, so I would love to get those out. We were gonna try to get them out this year again, but I don't think that's going to happen now. So next year. But and then we'd love to to to go international, you know. I think right now, you know, the priority is to really nail the US. Yeah. But I, I think our products we tested on every ethnicity, every hair type, you know, multiple types of Asian hair.

[00:37:44] And we just got such great response across the board that I do think the audience is much wider than just here and it is gender neutral.

[00:37:53] So we actually I'm I'm surprised we the orders we got today were all men. Yeah. Again, like, we actually have about 40 percent of our sales are men.

[00:38:03] Good. You.

[00:38:05] I think that men's products smell. I think they're discussing they remind me of something that we should have left behind with the thirties, I guess like lime in it or something. That just terrifies me. It's always so daunting.

[00:38:16] Why does it always have to smell like Drakkar from the 80s or something? It's just this awful smell to your shampoos that have been marketed to men should be taken out and given a strong lecture or two. Am I a pain? In my humble opinion?

[00:38:29] I would agree with you. I'm wondering, given everything that you're doing. Well, first of all, can people purchase it? Can we can they have a website? Can they pre order?

[00:38:41] All in all, our full line is is for sale. The ceramic bottle right now is on. I fund women, but we're about to. We're gonna slide that over to our site for pre purchase. But, yeah, everything is for sale. And we're also on Amazon.

[00:38:57] Yes. Excellent.

[00:38:59] And final question before I wrap up and ask you my final final question, which is on your site, you wouldn't be answering to my community if I didn't say, you know, I hit your Web site.

[00:39:11] I do a lot of research for these these chats I have. And I always pull up those pictures. I whites, our team, our story. Who are you? Yeah. Give me. Give me. And I did notice and I told you before we started, I said, why are you the only woman with four men on there? And that's rhetorical. You know, this is how it happens. A lot of industries. But you had some interesting news. So can you kind of speak to your executive staff and what your team looks like right now?

[00:39:38] Yeah. That is not been updated. As I said to you, I was literally just having that conversation with myself this morning thinking, oh, my God, you know, we don't have the right outward reality of our team. So, yeah, I have three other three other people that need to be on there that that are all women that are that are really haw haw, haw, haw to the team.

[00:40:00] One heads up our digital marketing. One heads up our content strategy and one heads up our PR.

[00:40:06] So I am going to be updating that to reflect the full team, which I'm excited about. And we work with, you know, when I hire.

[00:40:18] Editors and photographers and things like that, we're always trying to look for, again, diverse, diverse people, we.

[00:40:26] We do try to make a point of of casting a wide net and finding finding those people to kind of help us when we need help.

[00:40:35] Whether that's, you know, I've got two different women who are people of color, once a designer who's helped us quite a bit, actually. And the other one's an editor who did our brand video for us. So I don't put those people on our website.

[00:40:48] But that's just part of, again, you know, the the magic of finding finding those talent.

[00:40:55] Yeah. And your legacy. It sounds like from your entire career history of what you did in the past. I must say from a bird's eye point of view of looking in and being married to an original Silicon Valley computer nerd and having looked at that industry for the past 20 years from the outside, it's safe to judging distance, is what I like to say. Overly judgmental right here. And I do love your site.

[00:41:19] So they did amazing work. You know, these women, I think it's it's it speaks the esthetic of a stereotypical esthetic of like a Japanese, you know, this simplicity and all of that, which actually sounds like is a lot of the narrative throughout what you're doing. You're not launching, you know, five different shampoos. You've got this one like that clarity from an art historical point of view, which is what I have my master's degree. And that seems very true as well. So it's comforting. It's very interesting to kind of receive that wash over as well. So we're at the final point. My question, my favorite question, they're all my favorites. But if I had to pick one, this would be her. And wondering if you walked up to someone in such safe social distance tomorrow or they walked up Dan Rather and it was a woman or a female identified or not binary individual, pretty much anyone but a straight standard white man. And they said to you, hey, Lynn, you know, I'm so glad to run into you. I've I have this amazing thing I'm doing this 20 year career climbing up the ranks and the ladders in the ad agency. You know, I the epicenter of that world. And I've just left it. I'm endeavoring on this new startup. And I'm so excited with the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now.

[00:42:38] Yeah, I would say build a network, find a support system for yourself.

[00:42:46] You know, that's been really helpful. I'm a I'm part of several female founder groups and, you know, just having other women to talk to about the journey that stress sometimes what happens in my personal life, my teenage casino, all that stuff is is is very helpful. So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing is build your team, which we talked about earlier. But I think the peace around that that I would just reinforce to people that are looking to start a business is it's obvious that you need help. But a lot of people, a lot of women, I shouldn't say, a lot of people, a lot of women think that they need to figure everything out themselves first and then bring in the help. And I would just challenge that and say, I understand what you love to do and what you don't love to do.

[00:43:40] And if it's if there's stuff that you don't love to do, don't feel like you need to get it and understand it and master it, find somebody else to do it. And just like, don't be afraid to acknowledge that you don't want I don't love spreadsheets and numbers and I'm going to bring in somebody and they're going to manage that. Like, that's not a weakness. That's actually really good because you can focus on the things that that you're really good at. And then the third thing I would say is find a mentor, which is a little different than than, you know, you're just getting your network. Find signed several mentors, not just one. And don't wait till once presented to you, you know, go out and find people that you think you know, will help you will inspire you that you can learn from, that have done something that you want to do. And I've had people reach out to me on LinkedIn and say, hey, would you mentor me? I just need an hour. A month. And I'm like, yes, of course. And that's that's it's rewarding for me. It's rewarding for them. And you'll be surprised how generous people can be, I think.

[00:44:46] Absolutely. I love those. I will say that in 200 episodes plus doing this, you're the first person to talk. And your advice, your three advice about your team, about building the team. And I love that because I think it's everything for success.

[00:45:02] Very few people are just the solo producer of their ideas and how quickly we grow.

[00:45:07] And also, you are in company with well over 90 percent of women who say women don't outsource enough. This whole got to do it all. And a lot of people have argued that it's built baked into, you know, the stereo gender roles that we're given in this society where he had to be wife, mother, you know, entrepreneur, like all of these things, you're just expected to do all these things, whereas them stereotypically the male gender has been very, very good about outsourcing, you know, about very, very happy to get a housekeeper. You know, when they don't feel like they clean their house adequately and women assign value to being able to do it themselves in areas that actually deplete businesses. And I would argue even their own livelihoods and happiness in their personal lives. Yeah. So I have no one build a network and a support system. Number two, my favorite, build your team. You do not need to know everything and do everything before you hire out for it. Rather, focus in on what you're good at and what brings you the most success and happiness. And number three, find several mentors and don't wait for one to be presented to you. And those they're very actionable items to it's all very like get to work. Get going. Like, I love that.

[00:46:17] Yep. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for speaking with us.

[00:46:20] Lynn, we're out of time today, but I really appreciate your candor and your advice and you sharing a little bit of your wonderful history and your current endeavors with me. I love it.

[00:46:32] Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

[00:46:34] Absolutely. For everyone listening. We've been speaking with Lynn Power. You can find out more about Masami, her company on w w w dot love, Masami dot com. I myself am going to be jumping on and grabbing some for certain.

[00:46:48] Thank you for giving me your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am chatting with Sallie Holder; acclaimed bestselling author of “Hitting Rock Middle: The Roadmap From Empty Success To True Fulfillment” (Advantage 2020), podcast host, and founder of The BRIMM. She is a sought after coach, speaker, trainer, and guide to her clients breaking out of their silent scream in success and into true fulfillment. As a nationally-recognized public speaker and business coach, Sallie has spent more than fifteen years helping businesses, entrepreneurs, and employees identify what’s getting in their way and then breaking down those barriers to success.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with bestselling author, podcast host and founder of Brimm, Sallie Holder. Key points addressed were key aspects of Sallie's book, Hitting Rock Middle of the Road Map from empty success to True Fulfillment. And we also discussed Sallie's current endeavors to massive online training platforms she is currently leading and developing to help entrepreneurial women move their businesses to a solely virtual platform. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Sallie Holder.

[00:00:35] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.

[00:01:35] And today I am ecstatic to be sitting down with Sallie Holder. Sallie is a best selling author, podcast, host and founder. You can find out more about her and all of her efforts on her Web site. W w w dot. Sallie Holder, dot com. Welcome, Sallie.

[00:01:52] Thank you for having me, Patricia. I'm really excited to be here.

[00:01:55] Absolutely. I'm excited to unpack everything that you're doing. It's really exciting. You know, we were talking prior to recording and you have a very unique situation is having launched your book at the beginning of the covered pandemic breakout. And so I'm actually really interested to find out about some of the conversation that exists between that relationship as well as unpacking your book for everyone listening. I will give you a brief bio on Sallie. But prior to doing that, in case you're new to the podcast, a roadmap for the way that we will be following our trajectory and inquiry. Within that, we'll first look at unpacking Sallie's academic background and early professional life, bringing her up to writing the book, Hitting Rock Metal, The Roadmap from Empty Success to True Fulfillment. And then we'll turn straight to unpacking that book and I'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, why, how, funding all of those kind of more back end logistical author based things. And then I'll also turn towards the philosophy and the impetus of the inspiration behind it. Writing it, what community she intends for it to serve and all of those things. And then we'll look at unpacking her podcast and again, some of the logistical issues or questions around that. And then also the ethos, the I guess the content matter. She's getting into all of those things. Then we'll turn towards unpacking what's called the brim. And this is a coaching experience that Sallie offers as a technique. And I'll kind of climb through all of those things again, industries, client profiles, people that she's helping out. And what's new on the horizon with all of that? Maybe any more books in that arena. And then we'll turn our efforts towards asking her about goals and plans and then we'll wrap everything up with advice that Sallie may have for those of you who are looking to get involved with her or contact her about her work or perhaps emulate some of the success that she has had over the past year. A quick bio, as promised on Sallie. Before I stop peppering her with questions, Sallie Holder is an acclaimed bestselling author of Hitting Rock Middle the Road Map From Empty Success to True Fulfillment that came out in January of Twenty Twenty, I believe. She's a podcast host and founder of The Brim. She is a sought after coach, speaker, trainer and guide to her clients, breaking out of their silence screen in success and into true fulfillment. As a nationally recognized speaker and business coach, Sallie has spent more than 15 years helping businesses, entrepreneurs and employees identify what's getting in their way and then breaking down those barriers to success. Sallie earned a degree in human and organizational development from Vanderbilt University and followed that by earning her law degree while spending more than 10 years practicing labor and employment law, advising small companies as well as giants like FedEx and Michelin. She grew passionate about the growth of businesses moving beyond her law practice. She became an entrepreneur, starting her own business and coaching here. She discovered her true passion, helping others make the bold choice that lead to lasting success and happiness. So, again, you can find out more on her website. W w w dot. Sallie Holder dot com. That is s a l l i e h o l d e r dot com. So, Sallie, before we kind of launch into your book, which I am excited to kind of ask you about the core of, and seven I had the privilege of looking at over the past week, I'm hoping that you can dress an academic and professional background, which I know is kind of leading straight into your book and its narrative, but so that everyone can garner an understanding of where you were at prior to writing and launching your book, Hitting Rock Middle.

[00:05:41] Yeah, sure.

[00:05:42] So I feel like I came into this world following society's mold.

[00:05:53] Of success that, you know, while my father was an entrepreneur, my family had a very rigid view of what success looks like, what it felt like, what it showed up as to the outside world. And I learned quickly on that success meant that you achieved external accomplishments, that it came from a lot of awards and accolades, and that success really only meant one thing and that it was all that external kind of shiny penny stuff. I never really grasp that success meant that you got to feel words and feelings like happiness and joy and contentment. And so I believed for a very long time. More than 30 years. That you needed to work hard enough. Be very focused on those external accomplishments. And when you did, eventually you would be rewarded with the feelings of happiness and contentment. But after the 30 years of work and sacrifice of time and energy and getting many of the awards that I thought would lead me to that place of happiness and contentment, you know, after getting all of those, I didn't feel any of the things that I wanted to feel. I didn't feel fulfillment. I didn't feel joyful or happy. And I felt robbed. I felt frustrated and mad and angry and really dissatisfied. And I kept all of that to myself. You know, I kept quiet about all of those feelings because I felt like there must be something wrong with me because I had checked all of the boxes along the way that everyone else told me to check. And yet I didn't get all of the feelings back that I assumed came with checking the boxes. So, you know, eventually, through my own internal hard work of turning inside instead of spending all of my time focused externally and kind of we can talk about this part later. But, you know, eventually turning internally, I did the even harder work to figure out who I was and what I defined as success and who I wanted to eventually become in this life and made a big career change from, you know, focusing on things that I disliked in the corporate world and began my entrepreneurial journey. And I always had said to myself, Patricia, that if I figured it out, if I figured out how to make this sincere, switched and change that, I would write the book on it, that I would help other people be able to do the same. Because when I was out there struggling and floundering, I looked for the external solution. I looked for a book or someone just to say, I've been there, too, I get it. And I couldn't find that. And so this was my attempt to be authentic and raw and open to say if you have landed in this place, I get you, I hear you. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with you. All you need to do now is just a little bit of different work than you were ever told you needed to do to get to that place of happiness and fulfillment.

[00:09:21] I'm curious, and this is an area that the book doesn't really pass out. You do a really great and very candid.

[00:09:27] I think you have a lot of bravery and your honesty in the book describing, you know, what what could be seen as a nonproblem and really unpacking the problem within that. You know, the book begins with this kind of description of this incredible young success. It like twenty seven years old that you had and then just this this feeling of a disconnect at any rate. It felt to me I felt as a reader, like there was an emptiness behind everything that obtaining everything you had achieved before the age of 30, including the accolades and being recognized by society for that, and then the disconnect between what true happiness actually was and why you hadn't reached it with your bench markers that you had set forth at a younger age. And I thought a lot about that after reading that particular, because it's something I'm not even certain we're instilling in our own next generation. You know, for those of us that are lucky to have figured out what, you know, our zone of genius or whatever phrase you want to come up with, it is. I'm not certain that we have learned it well enough to do what this book is, as you've put forth, meant to do, which is to kind of help others go about doing the same thing, you know, and then instilling it in the next generation. I'm curious, how long did it take you? Because the book does this beautiful job of mapping things out, and I want to unpack that. But how long did it take you personally to kind of get to a place where the books written? In hindsight, you've kind of come to this revelation, you've walked into your zone of genius. How long would you say that journey took you from the bathroom floor that night until writing?

[00:11:00] Oh, gosh. I would say probably 10 years. Yeah. You know, I think that from.

[00:11:10] I had that bathroom floor moments that you're talking about after receiving the young professional of Year of the Year award. And I came home and just collapsed in tears because I felt like nothing was going to be different. And yet I wanted so desperately for things to be different and.

[00:11:30] My greatest fear was that I didn't have the power to make things different for myself. And I didn't realize all along that I did. I possessed that power all along. But I stayed exactly where it was for eight more years. I stayed practice law. I shifted things slightly. Right. You know, I kind of describe this concept in the book of staying in the loop that, you know, I would investigate other careers, other areas and believe that they would be the solution, that it was just the people I worked with or the job or the city I lived in.

[00:12:05] And if the problem wasn't that I was following someone else's model of success.

[00:12:12] And so I stayed there eight more years doing those slightly different things, running a law firm. I ran several companies after that as their chief operating officer, real estate company, retail company. But I still felt all of those same things because they were still always chasing someone else's model. So it took me 10 years after going through several other iterations to realize, OK, if it's not just practicing law and it's not just, you know, the people I work with in it, I take me wherever I go. And so if it's if I'm finding the same feelings every single time over and over. It must be something within me that needs to be resolved.

[00:12:54] And I finally began actually working with my own business coach, and she really helped me unlock that and make the realization that I need to do to do the work myself.

[00:13:07] And so over the next two years, I saw more growth and more rapid change in my life and career than I had from the previous 10. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:18] I'm curious to your book does a good job at posturing questions and even on your Web site, you know, as as a viewer, when you land and things like that, you've got a survey and things of that nature that I know that ties into probably work with the brim.

[00:13:32] But I'm wondering how much of it it it seems like you have a very therapy approached basis to it in that the solution is within. We just need to kind of unlock these, you know, and I'm referring obviously to to normal social therapy that a lot of people receive. But you have a lot of these questions about like looking in and answering it for oneself, you know, and it's it's also checking these factors that I think you talk about in the book as well, these kind of smile and nodding moments that people do and they really don't feel that way inside and kind of coming to terms with that, identifying it and then identifying true questions. Once you've detached it from stigma that a lot of us have about what we ought to be doing or what one was planned to do because of means from like a desperate moment in childhood. And so I wonder if you can speak to how much of that is is accurate. What I just said in clients that you've already worked with and things like that, is it? Very much so. Bringing things into consciousness to help one let go. Are there other steps that they need help with along the way?

[00:14:39] I love the way that you put that it. It is a bit of a therapeutic approach. And what I've come to learn and really resisted for so long in my kind of 10 year journey prior was the fact that I thought that there was some kind of tactical solution and that it could only come from some sort of tactical solution. And if I just worked hard enough that the solution would appear.

[00:15:03] And and yet the solution wasn't coming. And yet I still stayed in that loop. Right. The definition of insanity. And what I've come to realize in working with female entrepreneurs is that it is absolutely a combination of both. Right. It is a combination of tactical solutions that we are generally, as you know, and I primarily work with women, just I'm because I'm fascinated with female entrepreneurs and really passionate about helping them increase their revenue and income.

[00:15:35] And what I've come to realize is we aren't necessarily open to the tactical changes that we should or may need to implement until we have resolved many of the mindset issues. The limiting beliefs.

[00:15:49] And, you know, kind of exactly how you put it. The therapy puter approach and the therapeutic work is done first. You know, I have a mindset course that I offer. And, you know, I generally recommend that people start there because and many entrepreneurs say, well, it's not my mindset.

[00:16:08] You know, it's my, you know, lack of sales or my inability to have a lead funnel or lead generation. And I'm like, don't worry, I'm going to get there or I'm going to talk to you about all of those things and help you implement those. But the reason why you haven't created those first. The reason why they don't exist now is because right of these blocks, these mental blocks that you have, these assumptions you've made about yourself, your self-worth, the worth of your business. And it's driving many of the decisions that you're currently making in your business. So when we when we can resolve those, then we can implement some really great tactical tools that are, I find, small tweaks that can create massive success for you. But it all does begin with what's between your ears?

[00:16:58] Yeah, absolutely. And to that end, I'm wondering, who is the who is the ideal candidate for your book when you were writing it?

[00:17:07] Did you have your audience in mind or you were you just writing your truth?

[00:17:12] My actually, I always had my audience in mind because I was always thinking about the person that I was, that if there was another twenty seven year old woman out there who was doing it and trying to force that square peg in a round hole, staying in a career that she disliked. So to me, it is that younger audience, not where I am currently, which is OK. I have other things that serve them. But to me, ideally, it is the younger audience, you know, the, you know, twenty seven to thirty five, twenty five to thirty five where they're questioning and sitting there saying, you know, I like what I do but I don't love it, I'm not passionate about it.

[00:17:51] I don't know where I'm going from here. Do I stay here or does it really invest and double down in the career that I've chosen?

[00:17:59] And, you know, I want them to be able to read this and know whether it's right to stay where they are or whether creating the wholesale change may be right for them.

[00:18:12] Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think anybody can benefit from that, even if the answer is, you know, a lovely like, I'm great. I'm right where I should be. A check in is is really necessary and wonderful.

[00:18:24] And what has been the greatest success with your book that you hadn't anticipated? What has been like some of the happier moments that took you off guard?

[00:18:35] Oh, what a great question.

[00:18:37] You know, I did have the pleasure of getting to do a book tour, right. That ended the literally the week before it hit. And, you know, I think an unexpected just do away with seeing women probably who are of an older generation who were in their 60s and 70s coming up and saying, I read this, or they enjoyed the talk that I gave relative to the book.

[00:19:08] And coming up in tears saying, I don't want to give up. Right. I don't want to make the change. I still want to do the work to create the life I always wanted. And to me, just to be able to inspire one person to take the risk on themselves and to go and do that is beyond what I could have ever hoped for.

[00:19:33] You know, I'm thinking in particular, one woman that just like, held my hand and she was just in tears saying, you know, I've been wanting to do this for myself for so long. Thank you for giving me the courage to do it. And I mean your smart eyes right now.

[00:19:49] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And as well, it should be moving. Anybody like that, I think is wonderful. I'm wondering, you mentioned Kov It and the book I have written down January 20, 20, I myself didn't find that fact.

[00:20:05] But if it if indeed launched, then you kind of, you know, gracefully partnered Cauvin into the existence of kind of the global pandemic that it is right now. And I'm with your book launch. And I'm curious, as I started thinking about it, I don't come at anything always pessimistic. And I was wondering if it was I'm sure that there was some fallout and some issues in canceled tour dates and things of that nature. But has there been like a shift? Did it cause you to pivot and look at your book differently? Has there been a dialog that wouldn't have existed without that extreme and rare circumstance as launching the book right then?

[00:20:46] Patricia, I think you were the first person I have talked to about this in this manner, so I love the question. Yes, yes and yes and yes, all of the above. Like I said, I was fortunate to get to go to twenty five cities.

[00:21:01] I did a full book tour. The difference that I didn't expect was I thought that I would still be talking about the book at length from, you know, January throughout the entire year when things hit in March.

[00:21:19] What became apparent was that I needed to help my clients and even potential clients and just any female entrepreneur in an entirely different way. And very fast. And so I wanted to be able to offer help. And that wasn't the time for them to take that wholesale risk and change to, you know. And some began the thought process. I will say I had some people reach out to me and say, you know, now is the time where I'm, you know, deeply thinking about whether or not I might want to make a change. And that's great. But but the immediacy that Cove had created of meeting to create income and needing to have, you know, an ability to take businesses online really trumped the other message of, hey, go out and feel the freedom of creating whatever career it is that you want to have. So I did switch gears much faster than I anticipated. It's been interesting. You know, I had a bit of mourning over that. I didn't have a lot of time to let it sink in. And it really came after the fact. So I pivoted so quickly to offer a free five day workshop.

[00:22:34] I did it. Online, just on Facebook. I did five full days of training. Two female entrepreneurs. How to. And taught them how to take their businesses online to immediately create revenue. And so, you know, getting that content written and up and running and the whole thing going for a little over 300 people took a lot of work. And so. And then from that came obviously different as things always do, that Ben takes you in a totally different path. And so now I'm going to offer that again because people said it was so great. And so, you know, I I'm sad a little bit that I haven't gotten to continue to focus on the book. But I am a big believer that, you know, whatever path that we are given is the one that we were meant to be on. And so, interestingly enough, I'm just walking this to my pack and with curiosity and with interest, will you return to the honeymoon phase or try to with them with with your book?

[00:23:41] Once Kove It is over and social distancing is more of a distant past. Would you think you'll ever return and try to do some of the activities you were planning on doing or just move forward?

[00:23:53] I don't think I will. I've thought about this very recently because we are actually in the process of a Web site revamp to focus less on the book. And even before getting on this. That's exactly what I was doing, is changing the message again and revamping. But, you know, and I think that's one of the things that you've got to be willing to do as a female entrepreneur. You know, I love the quote, be clear on your intentions, but fluid on how.

[00:24:21] And I thought I knew how how it was going to go, how I was going to execute my ultimate intention, which always has been to help change the lives of female entrepreneurs and help them increase their revenue and make the biggest impact in the world that they possibly can. And how I thought I was going to do that was through the book.

[00:24:42] Interestingly enough, that was not my life plan. Now, in May, it may still but again, some of the other ways that the book was going to make an impact was through conferences and book speaking engagements and places like that, all of which have since been canceled. And so many of in-person events, you know, maybe those will come back and maybe they will come back and the book will be relevant then. But but I'm different now. And that's, I think what you have to always be open to is open to the growth that you can get to experience along the way. If you don't see it, as you know, with a victim or negative mindset of, oh, no, this happened to me rather than this is happening for me. And so that I may reach that ultimate destination. I didn't expect it, but somehow it will be a gift. And we all expect to be able to see that in the moment. And you don't get to write. You just have to have faith and then trust. And then you get to see it as an as a reflection.

[00:25:48] Yeah.

[00:25:49] Well, so as your message is growing with the new Web site development and things of that nature, does that will it also affect areas that you've done with your podcasts that you've launched? Is that affect some of the work that you're doing there? Are you going to continue with it? And if so, can we get into discussing some of that?

[00:26:08] I would love to. Gosh, you are getting me to open up about things that I have not talked about at all. And excellent. Yes, I am actually in the process of completely revamping the podcast. It the title was hitting Rock Middle and when Cobh it hit and I saw the need to, like I said, pivot to offer a different resource, something that would live where people could provide interaction. Then I did the live versus having just simply the audio format. And so now I want the podcast to be both both visual and so that there is a way to watch it. And then I and then have the audio format as well. And then my idea is to Wharfe reformat it to be something like that. I can test out the name on you. The keester earning more. And so that it is all centered around, you know, giving women more of the keys to their own success. And, you know, helping them with what I find are really typically the three most predominant areas that are problematic for female entrepreneurs there. They'll trouble with their time. The trouble with their earnings, which goes into many more different facets, you know, through pricing and sales. And then the last is through their mindset, which is everything from leadership to boundary setting.

[00:27:44] Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and it does. Exactly. I was going to say I love the title as long as it does what it says and it does. You know, I'm all about utility, especially when someone is going to talk about keys and functionality. You know, especially I mean, I have a very poetic waxing and waning heart, don't get me wrong. But when it gets into, you know, career talk or business or anything like that, I. Mike, let's not use metaphors. Let's be straight. You know, let's talk about what we're really talking about. So I like it a lot. I'd like the title and I think it'll be fun. To that end, do you think the format will be interview? Will you make it a hodgepodge? Will it be interview? Will be some of you. Are you shooting for a specific type of format in the beginning or have you even thought it through?

[00:28:23] I have I. I want to do one interview a month and then I'm going to do the rest.

[00:28:30] The other three will be me talking about both things that, you know, are tools and assets that people can, as you said, implement right away and are very utilitarian.

[00:28:46] And then I would love to be able to use one of the episodes as a way of implementation of the tools that hopefully have been shared by the guest. So by the prior guest so that we could talk about what they said and and give you some some ways to implement their tips, which we all know. There is another step to the process when you're interviewing someone. They're gonna give you a lot of awareness, which is fantastic. But then beyond awareness comes implementation. So I want to be able to follow through with that. And so that's the idea is that I would have two new concepts a month and then an interview and the implementation of the interview.

[00:29:28] This is a great format. Will you ever take kinds of questions and answers from your audience as you grow? Like it will ever be like a Q&A where people can kind of write in about things that they're questioning?

[00:29:39] Love that idea. Yes. That is such a fantastic idea.

[00:29:43] Yeah. Implementation and action items that you're talking about. I think it's so imperative with everything, you know, the social turmoil our nation is under right now, not just the morning, but like the actionable like what can we do moving forward changes. You know, you're coming from the body of water of change. And so I think that it's some the action items that you just mentioned, implementation and everything, and then coming at it from answering Q&A later on. That sounds fantastic. It's so great. I think that that's. It seems like a really beautiful marriage somehow, philosophically, between what your book, you know, strove to do as well, which was help people implement it into their lives. So I like the idea that you're kind of carrying that ethos over. So I want to unpack the brim. I'm not sure if that I'm sure it will. I believe it's what you were mentioning when you said Kovik hit. You need to help your clients. You went on this Facebook. I'm guessing it's from the same kind of coaching experience that you're doing towards. Can you draw a little bit out about maybe an average profile of your clients? You like to work with female entrepreneurs, but maybe a little bit deeper within that within that area. And also, I'm curious about like what, the top three to four main issues some of your clients always have.

[00:31:00] So the brand really is intended to serve female entrepreneurs. Traditionally, I find that they fall. My age range, 40 to 50.

[00:31:10] Obviously, everyone is welcome on either end of the periphery. We have some, you know, one that I can think of. That's twenty three and one that is 58. But typically, it's somewhere around the 40 to 50 age range where I find that many of them also grew up like I did with this very external focus and with this thought process that, you know, I'm smart.

[00:31:36] I've got the degrees generally. They may have succeeded in a previous career and now they're trying to apply a lot of that to their entrepreneurial experience. And it's not really working and they aren't sure why. Much of the time they have between zero and 10 employees. Maybe their revenue is. I've several companies that I work with that have up to 10 million dollars in revenue. But what is consistent about them is they're all missing the leadership support. So they still remain the primary decision maker. They still are. You have very little they have support staff, but they have very little people to delegate any type of decision making or other leadership responsibilities, too. So they still bear much of that burden. And so they're looking consistently to someone like myself to turn up to because they don't want to complain down. They want to be able to turn up to someone else and they don't have anywhere else to turn. And so I can serve within the broom as that person, guide them through the next stages, which really are all about helping them with those three main problems that I find. They are always almost undercharging. Very consistent issue. Know female entrepreneurs tend to earn fifty six cents on every male dollar in the entrepreneurial world, whereas in the corporate world we earn 76 cents on every male dollar. And I constantly put it back to my female entrepreneurs to say, and who set the price? Who did that? We did. We're doing it ourselves. It's fantastic to know that, because then we get to change it and then we have the power to do so. So, you know, we were well aware because of the loud think, gosh, voices of women everywhere saying, hey, we deserve to be paid. You know, in the corporate world, what we know is equal pay. But when we are given the choice, too often we are diminishing our own talent. And so that is a big focus of the brim is helping with pricing structures and then also with becoming familiar with and passionate about sales, which is not an icky word, but something that women need to lean into and know that the the fantastic sales process is being able to serve the people who need what you have in a way that's thoughtful and creates a Win-Win relationship.

[00:34:14] And then the other is certainly about time management.

[00:34:22] And so, you know, we break that down over several weeks of work on productivity tools, time management tools and efforts that I have found that have changed my business dramatically. And so I teach those. But I also deal a lot with the mindset issues that that are incorporated in the time management problem of not valuing ourselves. And so we do dove into the third issue, which is mindset, which is around self care. And the idea that when you care for yourself first, your business will actually flourish instead of operating and making decisions constantly from a place of fear, believing that, you know, you can run yourself into the ground and do a little bit more and that will help you earn more.

[00:35:16] That is, in fact, wrong. And so we break down those three areas of main focus into smaller modules and deal with those.

[00:35:25] Yeah, and it's so true. And I feel like it's been told to me since I was in my twenties by Oprah and I just the implementation never. And. I remember the day it sunk in, you know, about self care actually coming out to be in fruition, to not just your bottom line, but your bottom line of happiness. It's amazing what self care does. And it's amazing how even as I think I was raised really liberally and incredibly privileged and I still wasn't raised with those values, women were taught to sacrifice. That's what you got to do. You better be multitasking. You better be making everyone happy ahead of yourself. And it was just so weird to realize that so many years into my career and thinking, oh, if I had done this. Earlier on, at very least, my happiness level would have been through the roof. So I have to ask you, I love to ask authors this having come from a family of writers and playwrights and things like that, it's one of my most favorite things because it's very agitating. But I'm wondering if it's like asking about someone's next meal as they've just completed supper. But I'm wondering if you've thought about another book on the horizon. A lot of times when you're going through the process, it's actually, you know, it can spark things in people or it's like, I will never do that again. You know, there's there's two schools of thought. But I'm wondering if you've thought about writing another book as you're kind of doing this beautiful metamorphosis and pivoting, you know, listening to the Times and the reality around you. Has it sparked up like the thoughts of maybe writing another book or. No?

[00:36:58] It has, and I think that that is so interesting because I always equate it to having children. I have a 10 and almost 13 year old, and I remember when my son was born first. And I said to myself, I will never do that again. That was really tough. And I'm glad that I have the child. And he is absolutely wonderful. But oh, my gosh, I can't imagine putting myself through that. And then you got enough distance from it and you say, well, you know, it wasn't that bad.

[00:37:26] It wasn't that hard to. I could do it again. And I think that now that I actually finished writing the book almost a year ago, I'm having a little bit of that distance to think. I have more to say. I have more I want to talk about. And so I definitely think that there will be another book. And I just began probably thinking about that within the last two weeks as this next probably third pivot since I've been in. And it is coming about. And that's what really stirred that thought. Process is good.

[00:38:06] That's exciting. Well, that's good for me. And I get to read another one for you. Welcome to your triumph and tribulation. Along with that, in addition to that, I'm glad I got that out of you.

[00:38:19] It's hard to get people even to admit that there's a very there's a secrecy when somebody's going to write something with so many authors. And I got you working on something. No, no, not really. Not really.

[00:38:28] You know, there's this. Don't judge me. Don't ask me about it next week. I ought to be accountable. I love it. But midway through even the first book, I was like, not many people know about this. We're just going to talk this away. We're just going to pretend like I only told about ten or twelve people.

[00:38:43] It's fine. Yeah, exactly. It happens.

[00:38:47] I'm wondering. So that's a plan. It's a goal for the future. And I'm wondering if you can kind of enumerate on other, like, goals for the next one year. This has been a conversation that everyone, you know, from a 12 year old two hundred and twelve year old has had with themselves. It's changed significantly for all of us in this world. And I'm wondering if your goals have changed drastically. Obviously, you've had this pivot that's come up, but do you have goals that you can kind of expand on for the next one to two years?

[00:39:20] Sure. I had huge goals around traveling and speaking, and so that was, you know, suddenly became a big X in the goal sheet and the income sheet as well.

[00:39:34] And so, you know, sometimes forced pivots are a really great thing. And, you know, it, again, forces us to dig deeper and do the harder work. Right. Speaking would have been easier for me because it's something I've done for a long time. And now the harder work is for me to figure out that next deeper layer of myself of where I can continue to push myself and to grow. And so I hope over the course of the next year that, you know, my goal has been, you know, my bigger life goal is to obviously impact as many female entrepreneurs as I possibly can and help them reach at least the million dollar mark of revenue or more since only two percent of female entrepreneurs ever get to that place. And I think that there should be so many more out there.

[00:40:26] And. But within the next year, I hope that. That seat. Now, I'm hesitant to put that finite goal out there. What I've been thinking about is that I hope I can at least help 10, right, 10 female entrepreneurs reach that million dollar mark. I know that we've seen in the last two months gotten two more there.

[00:40:56] So that feels really magical and amazing to know that they reached that threshold for the first time in their careers ever and had been in business prior to this for, you know, 10 years, 12 years and just never gotten there.

[00:41:12] And that's where we say sometimes it's it's a tiny tweak that can unlock that next level.

[00:41:18] So, yeah, I think that I'm going to focus very heavily on those three areas.

[00:41:24] That, to me, seemed the most evident in need of coaching courses, et cetera, of just the mindset, time and time and earnings sections. So those are going to be my three areas of a deep focus is really digging into those. I already have a course on mindset. I focus tremendously on earnings in the brim of helping women scale their businesses, develop new revenue streams and increase their pricing, develop sales funnels, et cetera, in the brim. And but I think it is time to introduce something that will be a like a six week course is what I'm kind of imagining on time that will incorporate slyly some mindset issues and things like that. But we'll rope you in telling you we're going to make you more productive.

[00:42:30] All right. My. Absolutely. That's awesome. Well, we've come to the part of podcasts. My favorite.

[00:42:37] Everyone who's been listening or following me over the past couple of years knows this. But I'm curious if you were at a safe social distance tomorrow in some outside outdoor space and someone walked up to you. It was a woman or a female identified or non biner individuals, anyone other than a man ad for purposes of this podcast. And they said, listen, I'm Sallie. I'm I'm so glad I ran into you. I went to law school. I had this amazing firm. I did great. I started questioning my, you know, my placement there about eight years prior to this. And I decided I know it was not the right path for me. I'm going to launch out on my own to try and figure some things out, find my path. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now about your own life?

[00:43:29] The first would definitely be dream big.

[00:43:34] And I know that that has been a phrase that we have, you know, probably overused. But what I mean by that very technically is start with the Indian mind. Begin with your end of life, end of career, everything. And look at two things. Both your income goals and your lifestyle goals do not leave your lifestyle behind. And that's how very often. If I had defined those things and said who I wanted to become. At the end of this wild and crazy life. Thank you, Mary Oliver, for that quote. And I love it. Is. Then I never would have practiced law. I would have skipped that entire part of my journey because I wanted to become a woman who was a million dollar earner. A woman who traveled internationally made an impact on other women in business and, you know, changed the world. That was not going to happen within the type of law practice that I chose. So I would have known, oh, OK. Wait a minute. My lifestyle goals do not match up with the direction that I'm heading. And so I would tell her, don't get back in the same loop by just getting started. You know, very often I hear people all the time say to entrepreneurs, just begin. And I'm like, OK. That's like telling someone to get in a car and just start driving or you're gonna go left or right. Where are you headed? If you know the end destination is California versus Europe. Sure. Just start driving and enjoy the the winding route.

[00:45:07] But you always have a direction, and that is really different than just begin. Right. And so so, again, that's about creating that final destination. I've kind of wrapped up a couple of a couple of other things. And there is always set both income and lifestyle goals, not just one. And then. I would say the third is, gosh, I think one of the biggest mistakes that I have made, even as an entrepreneur along the way, is still continuously believing that someone else has a magic pill or a, you know, expertize out there that can fix me and they can't. Right. Sometimes you've got to just take the bumps and the bruises along the way and learn as you go. And you don't need to pay someone else, you know, thousands of dollars to fix you.

[00:46:09] Now, you know, is it more joyful to get to experience the journey with other female entrepreneurs and be part of a community that's challenging and growing themselves to.

[00:46:20] Absolutely. But just know when you go into that that and go into a coaching relationship or any of those that.

[00:46:30] You have all the power, you have everything within you that you need to be the best version of yourself already. And so really what you're looking for from the coach or the other person that you're hiring is just to bring that out even more, just to highlight it, to complement it.

[00:46:46] And so very often I see entrepreneurs, you know, looking for the PR firm go marketing.

[00:46:54] If I only had this or that, it would all be better. And that's just not the case. And believe me, I've wasted plenty of money doing those things, too. And I like that.

[00:47:06] And it's cool. I haven't heard that from anyone before. And I think it's obviously indicative of the work that you've done in your book and the work that you'll continue doing.

[00:47:16] All right. So to sum up, I've got dream big and what you end up with as a side note. Start with the end in mind, which I love. Number two always said income and lifestyle goals, not just one. Number three, nobody outside of you can fix you or your career. It's merely those people's tools that release your own power and prowess.

[00:47:38] Oh, I love that.

[00:47:40] That's awesome. That's you. Yeah. That's you. Like you. Back to you. I like that a lot, too. Sallie, that's so awesome.

[00:47:46] I know we're out of time, but I just wanted to say thank you so much today. I know that you've got a bunch of balls in the air and nobody is busier than someone revamping their life, which everybody is doing. And I really do appreciate you taking the time to speak with me and have our audience hear your wisdom.

[00:48:00] Well, thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.

[00:48:03] Absolutely. For everyone listening. We have been speaking with Sallie Holder. She's a bestselling author, podcast, host and founder. You can find out more about all the stuff that we've been talking about on her website. W w w dot. Sallie Holder dot com. I myself eagerly await her next book and can't wait for all of the future wisdom that comes from that and for everyone else listening. Thank you for spending your time with us today. I do appreciate you.

[00:48:30] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay in love with the world and always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I am speaking with Jesse Draper. Jesse is a mother of 2 boys, founding partner of Halogen Ventures as well as creator and host of Emmy nominated television series, The Valley Girl Show. Draper is a 4th generation venture capitalist focused on early-stage investing in female-founded consumer technology. Among her 55 portfolio companies, are the Skimm, Carbon38, HopSkipDrive, The Flex Company, Eloquii (recently sold to Walmart) and This is L which recently sold to P&G. She stars on SET's television series Meet the Draper's currently in it's second season.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the fortunate opportunity to speak with Jesse Draper. Jesse is the founder of Holligan Ventures and the creator and host of Emmy nominated The Valley Girl Show. Key Points addressed where Jesse's founding of Holligan Ventures and its work as a Los Angeles based venture capital fund focused on investing in early stage consumer technology startups with a female in the founding team. We also unpacked Jesse's extensive knowledge of creating and hosting what was the first tech talk show, the Valley Girl Show, and what the industry was like a decade ago during the show's inception and growth. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Jesse Draper.

[00:00:43] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:40] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Jesse Draper.

[00:01:46] She's the founder of Halogen Ventures and the host and creator of Emmy nominated The Valley Girl Show. You can find out more about all of the endeavors that we talk about today and her on Hellgren v.C dot com. Welcome, Jesse.

[00:02:01] Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I love what you're doing.

[00:02:05] Absolutely. I love what you're doing. So the feeling is mutual for everyone listening. We're going to climb into a quick bio of Jesse. But before we get to that, in case you're new to our series, a quick roadmap for today's podcast, we'll follow the same trajectory as all of them in the series. First, we'll look at and packing Jesse's academic and professional background leading to the launch of Helen Ventures. Any pertinent information that we can garner from that? Then we'll go jump straight into unpacking HelpAge and Ventures. And for everyone listening, all of our nerdy little founders, not crew, is out there. We'll start out the logistics, the who, what, when, where, why funding all of that, the logistical stuff up front. We'll get into the ethos of what they're doing with halogen and how all of it's working. The impetus. Some of the markets that they've service and the populations that they kind of look at working with. And then we'll also unpack the Valley Girls show it is Emmy nominated. It's it's got a really cool impetus. Jesse spoke with a bunch of really fantastic people over the past decade. And I have a lot of production questions for those of you who are looking at it, the medium of kind of mixing in YouTube with everything that everyone's doing has been a very real part of the integration model and as as you could, particularly entrepreneurship and followership. But we'll kind of look at all of that and then we'll unpack other media like endeavors that she and her prolific family that she comes from have done. Then we'll turn our attention towards looking at goals and plans that Jesse has for the next one to three years. This has changed for everyone, entrepreneurs and successful titans alike. Given the recent Koban 19 pandemic and how some of that has changed and what her conversation with her company and herself has been like in reassessing those goals for future plans, we'll wrap everything up with advice that Jessie has. For those of you who are looking to get involved with her, what she does, or perhaps emulate some of her careers. Magical success, as promised. A quick bio on Jessie before I begin peppering her with questions. Jessie Draper is a mother of two boys, founding partner of Logan Ventures, as well as a creator and host of the Emmy nominated television series The Valley Girl Show. Draper is a fourth generation venture capitalist focused on early stage investing in female founded consumer technology. Among her fifty five portfolio companies are the skim carbon 38 Hop, Skip, Drive, the Flex Company and Eloqua recently sold to Wal-Mart. And this is Elle, which recently sold to PMG. She stars on Essie's television series Meet the Draper is currently in its second season. It says here it might be in its third or fourth. We were just talking. We'll get Jesse to clarify that later on.

[00:04:43] Draper was listed by Marie Claire magazine as one of the 50 most connected women in America. Draper has been a contributor to Marie-Claire Matchable Forbes and is a regular investor and tech personality on shows including TLC, Girls Starter, The Katie Couric Show. Fox is Good Day, L.A.. CNBC sees Who Wants to be the Next Millionaire. Invest in Ventor and Freedoms Startup U.

[00:05:10] She proudly sits on the Board of Directors of Enterprise Technology Company Work Blue Fever PREE Madonna, creator of Nale Bought and the nonprofit board biz world. Draper supports the Parkinson's Institute and is very involved with growing UCLA as female entrepreneurship community. Now, Jesse, I know if I am if I stumbled over any of that, you can absolutely clarify. But before we get into unpacking halogen and everything that you're doing there, I'm hoping you can draw us a roadmap for everyone listening or watching the vodcast today of your early academic and professional life that led you to launching Holligan.

[00:05:49] Yeah, I. Hello, everyone. I'm happy to be here. And, you know, I think like most career trajectories, it's it's not you know, it's not a straight line by any means. But it does make sense for you here. Sort of like you have moved me. But I grew up in Silicon Valley, as you mentioned. I'm a fourth generation investor and the first female in line. I didn't think I could go into that profession, although I had many venture capitalists in my blood. And that was sort of all I knew growing up in Silicon Valley. I grew up around incredible entrepreneurs. It was, you know, a very privileged human being. And I. But again, I didn't think I could go into this profession because my mom worked incredibly hard raising four children. And my dad was very he really opens the curtains to me in terms of educating me about startups. I worked with him a little ice or steels for him through my show, like Paperless Post and numerous others. And I I worked at an asset management company just after college, but I just didn't think that I could go directly into that career because I didn't see any women around me. And so I saw my Aunt Polly and they say, you can be what you can see. And my aunt was this very successful actress. And, you know, it's sort of funny, but I thought, oh, as an eight year old child, like, that's what a traditional job for a woman, you know, because she's something and I'm very close to and that's what she does. And she was on the show called 30 Something in the 80s that was really popular. It's coming back on Netflix, actually. Shameless plug. And she I just idolized her. So I went into entertainment and I, I went to UCLA. I studied theater, film and television. And I my dad was always kind of in the back of my head saying, Harvey can make this a business. How is this a career? You know, he was supportive, but he was sort of like, you need to figure out how to make a living doing this. And it's a very difficult lifestyle. If, you know, she's like, it's rare that Polly had such a successful career and still has. And so I went to UCLA after UCLA was on and a glowing show was acting, was going to cattle calls. And I very quickly was like, OK, I love and respect to this profession, but I go to these cattle calls and there's a thousand girls who look just like me and are probably much more talented. And my heart is really good with this world of technology. And so I kind of combined my two passions and I basically said, OK, I have a third season of this Nickelodeon show and then I have a six month hiatus. And instead of auditioning this year, I'm going to go start a technology talk show. I've never seen one. I always thought these people should be idolized. And I say it's the first technology talk show. You know, people can kind of come at me and prove to me that there was one before. But I had the former CEO, Eric Schmidt, in two thousand eight on my show and no one cared. So I bet it was like one of the first in these like early, early days after two seasons of the show online. And, you know, you were alluding to asking about distribution, et cetera. You know, this was my own entrepreneurial print, unreal journey. It was like early days of digital distribution. No one knew what they were doing. It was a complete disaster to get your content out there. And I was looking for eyeballs, but because I was on a no gloating show on Nickelodeon, was owned by Viacom. And I anytime and Viacom was in a lawsuit with YouTube. And so anytime I put something up on YouTube, it would be taken down because my identity was owned at that time by Nickelodeon, essentially like my IP. It was this weird thing that everyone was still figuring out. So I didn't really focus on YouTube, but I was like, where else can I find eyeballs? And so I ended up working with Forbes, Mashable, numerous others, and we created content. I was one of the first shows to do a deal with all those airports and hotels. Now it's much more normal, but we were getting millions and millions of users through those. And I was just it was this really discombobulated situation. After two seasons of the show, we then took it to television, were ultimately nominated for an Emmy, but also after two seasons of the show. So we did a total of. Seasons, sorry, I feel like I'm all over the place today. The world is in shambles. That's right. I'm sure it would be bad not to even address that. These are horrible. I mean, these wonderful protests are going on. But just like there's so much horror in the world right now in the last word of all these problems. So so basically, I sat through the show after two seasons of interviewing incredible men in technology. I was like, this is still the problem. There's a huge problem here. Like, I just didn't viewed men in technology for two seasons. I didn't think I could go into technology because I didn't see any women. And I need to change this. So I made an initiative to interview 50 percent women in technology on the show. And this was like. Long enough ago that it was impossible to get the Meg Whitman's of the world. It is so difficult because they did not want to put themselves out there. This was like a generation of women who were like, I'm not going to help you. I had to fight so hard to get to where I am. And I was dying for mentors. I was dying for advisers. And I just got shot down and shot down again. And I'm forever grateful to the women of fashion technology because once that started booming a little bit, it was Jen Hyman from Rent the Runway. She came on my show. That made it OK for Rebecca Minkoff to come on my show. That made it okay for the guilt girls to come on my show. And that made it OK for Sheryl Sandberg to come on my show before she'd written Lean In, before she had really gotten out there. She was a new CEO at Facebook and that changed my life. I got all of a sudden it was like celebrities and Jessica Alba and the CTO of the United States of America and like really put me on the map. And it was a fun, silly talk show. Very different than most technology talk shows. But I started doing this like Rock in Women series. And I look back to that first Rock and Women series. It was so cool. It was Sheryl Sandberg. It was this woman, Beth Cross, who started area. If anyone is a horseback rider, that's like the biggest horseback riding brand. It was really a heart. So I'm still pretty close with from Eventbrite, which has now gone public, like looking at these women, just like me chills. And that was the beginning of this journey that I was just striving for more for women. I grew up again in this family of investors, and I knew what a good deal looks like. And I was sending my dad all these deals because they pitched the show as a technology company. And I'd say you're too early for the show, but maybe you should go talk to some investors. I know. And then I was like, I can do this. I don't have any money, but I can do this. And so I, I started seeing some deals. I'd say you're a little early for the show. Love what you're doing. Can I write you a Penneys check? A thousand dollars, a thousand dollars, whatever I could afford at the time. Sometimes I would negotiate sweat equity and get some advisory shares and, you know, help them with PR and media exposure. And I created this nice little track record. I'm one of those companies I sold for a twenty five X return in less than 18 months on the secondary market. And that was like just a huge moment for me where I realized. The show was going OK. I was barely breaking even. Media is still pretty broken, although everyone's eyes are on online. So this is it's booming right now. But I was like, there's something wrong. I've never been on television. I've been online. No one knows how to make this a really profitable business unless you're selling tons of swag. And we were too, you know, early to, like, have that brand recognition. And so we. So I just sort of put the show on pause. I had to be I got married, had a baby simultaneously while raising my first fund. So I used the track record from those little angel investments I'd made to raise fund one. I pitched five hundred investors, closed, maybe 50 of them. And the first people I went to were these people I had created relationships with through my talk show. And so Alexis, moving from Gilt Group was one of my first investors, you know, and I got this nice group of people who had watched and gotten to know me through my sort of media channel. And that was how I began to build my network in terms of raising capital. We're now on our second fund and we've invested in 62 companies, all female founded. There has to be a female on the founding team of five. We've had about six exits to date. Two were one hundred for one hundred million dollars. And that's still pretty early in terms of our trajectory. And I just want to keep thinking about investing in women as an opportunity. A lot of women are going out and saying, oh, poor me, I'm a woman. Invest in me. This is an opportunity. This is not a charity case. Investing in women is not charity. You are going to make a lot of money. Women raise half as much capital. They double the return. And and so that's where proving that out day by day. I'm also really proud of the fact that because I went off of I live in L.A., we I went off of the traditional Silicon Valley Road, which I literally grew up on and totally love and respect. But again, there was no gender diversity whatsoever. And I'm I put out this. We are investing in women. And it was like this bat signal. This magnet for thousands of female deals because women are looking for women investors is they're starting companies that often men don't relate to. And you need we need men. There's not a man hating club we need, especially because they control the majority. But we really need people to invest in more women. And so I started thinking about, oh, wow, we're getting all these women from all over and we're investing in the best deals and completely just that was our beginning strategy. And we have over 60 percent minority led companies because we were looking for the best. And I'm so proud of that, especially today, because it is so important to we always say, you know, invest in diversity. We invest in diversity of gender, race and age. And I think that diversity breeds success. And it's really important to give everybody a shot. We are we're very easy to get a hold of. You can hit me up through the website. You can, you know, purchase through the website. You can find me on Instagram. I'm taking pitches through Instagram at Jessee. See Draper dot com. Jessica Draper from all over the place today. Goodness, Patricia. But I'm I at. But we take pitches everywhere because I never want people to feel like you have to have an introduction to me. I think it's really important that everyone has a shot and we might miss out on the next, you know, Uber or something even better if we don't look at every deal we possibly can. And so anyway, that is my that's how I got here.

[00:18:24] Now you're here.

[00:18:26] I well, I think it's interesting when you talk about the culture of, you know, you can see we can get into the statistics that everyone's heard a million times over about the consumer dollars and the power that women and women identified non binary.

[00:18:38] Those communities have in what they're spending and how they're not taking advantage over that power and things like that. But you and I were talking off the record before we started filming about this kind of I was kind of baptized into the concept a little bit too late for my comfort. But this concept of the lifecycle of the female entrepreneur and founder and how the matriculation should naturally turn into when I say female, I mean female identified non-binding as well. Pretty much anyone other than the white man. It's kind of been represented and spoken about as 50 years. Not that I don't care about them, I just don't. Not speaking to them right now. The responsibility that they have in the life cycle about eventually matriculating all the way through and becoming investors themselves and becoming, you know, part of this like giving back into that system where they invest in. Melinda Gates has talked recently on a very open platform. Is this being one of her major issues and concerns as of late? And I think that it's so important to kind of unpack that. And one of the most interesting things, we have all these correlations and nothing is causation and a member never claiming that. But there are these correlate of values. When you say, you know, we were just looking for the best and we wanted it to be female or some kind of woman involved in the original founding of it and to have it all of this and also be represented and, you know, minority representations in populations as well as just it's proof, as you're saying, diversification works and it drives. And, you know, there's a lot of different. I come from a huge psychology and sociology background. So a large part of me wants to pass out like who? It's because those people fought harder. It's because they were more used to hearing those because they had to do that. And then if that is neither here nor there and it's again, it's all correlation. But I do think that there is truth in that and people can talk about it all day long. But until you put your effort and your money down as you have, the change is not yet happening. And I think that there's been a lot of discourse in the communities that I have spoken with in women investors and ventures and things of that nature where there's still a lot of chat. There was a lot of hyper conversation about the Metoo movement, you know, and how people were terrified that it was just going to go away, it was going to get all this publication, were going to take down a whole bunch of horrible abusers. And then it was just going to kind of go back to business as usual.

[00:20:49] There wasn't gonna be any law, there wasn't gonna be any change and things like that. And I think the same thing is true with investment.

[00:20:55] And I'm looking at changing the seat at the table, as Gates said, you know, putting the change out there is your your fund has been and talking about it, I think is a crucial part of the process because we can all have these summits and discuss things as women and female identified individuals. But until we start putting those things into motion, it won't change for our children's generation. And that's my goal. You know, mine is is happening right now and playing out well. But my daughters need to come up in a different world where they see people looking like us and female identified individuals at the table, because when I was coming up, I didn't see nary one female in tech until Oriana with Huff Post, like I did not I did not know of one.

[00:21:37] And I hung out with nerds from Atari days up like I was kicking it with with the kids that were playing it, then programing the games, then in their parents garage. And it was always meant and, you know, it was usually always white men. And so even from the visual aspect of the archetype that I saw in person and on TV, you were saying your daughters are clearly going to be fine.

[00:21:59] I'm glad you're even thinking about that. I mean, one of my biggest frustrations, running a fund that focuses on women is that. Fund one. I went out and thought, oh, I'm going to go meet with the female billionaires and all the women investors I can find. And, you know, I'm not saying I sat down with every female billionaire, but quite a few. And what I found is women are more comfortable writing a multimillion dollar check to charity than investing in a fund. And I started asking why. Why are you bragging to me about how you wrote a three million dollar check to that charity you believe in? And why have I had six meetings with you and it's taking you so long to get across the table here. And, you know, they say, well, I don't know that much about venture capital. I prefer if you talk to my husband and it's like meeting six, I now have this rule that after three meetings, you know, you know, if they're in, you know. And I'm like, OK, well, let's meet with your husband, you know, and usually the husband's game. And it's it's fascinating to me. But we started a dinner series. Now you'll have to come to one. And now it's very easy because they're all in to where I was really frustrated that women are not taking enough risk with their capital. And so, anyway, fund, you know, my investors overall are the majority are male. It's probably 60 percent male to female. And that's what's frustrating for me. I, I would love to have, you know, much larger female investor base because of what we're doing. But again, I do love men. I was raised by incredible men. I just got and men control the majority of the capital that we needed changing at those levels. We need it. I walked into a workers comp fund somewhere in the middle of the country and I was like laughed at, like the coffee came out of this guy's mouth. And he's like, I can't believe that you're investing in women. And why would we invest in this fund? You only invest in women. And I was like, OK, well, I guess, OK, I just went back and. So here's why it's a great investment. They raise half as much capital. They double the return. Here's all the data. And I was so grateful because about halfway through that meeting, one of the associates came in and it was a younger guy. And he said, oh, my wife uses that company. And, oh, yeah, I've heard of that one, too. And so I do see it changing. But we need more women in those conversations because these are the pension funds and the did partner investors who invest in capital, in women and make those giant endowments. Those are all run by men. And now they're hiring, you know, a few more women. But we need more women investors. We need more women to understand investing and try. Like, the more you try, you know, big risk equals big reward. Buy some stock. Go on, Robinhood. You like Starbucks? Go buy some Starbucks. That's a public stock. You know, Bitcoin, too, is like one to 17 in terms of female to male. And that is a huge opportunity as well. Like what is Bitcoin? I'm sure everyone's thinking right now on this. Like, go figure it out. You don't have to buy a whole Bitcoin. You can buy a little piece of a Bitcoin. But I think women need to be playing in these circles and taking this risk with their capital. And it makes you feel more comfortable the more you're exposed to it. So I always say like to the men, you know. Bring your sisters, your daughters, your mothers into these conversations, your wives, champion women and wives and significant others should be in every single conversation with your financial manager. I don't care if you don't understand it. Sit there. You will understand it. After you go to a few of these meetings and we'll learn more and you can ask questions about why you're invested in that or what it means to be invested in a real estate fund or whatever it may be. So I just say, like, expose yourself, take more risk with your capital and talk about money. I mean, my friends clam up when I'm like, hey, you guys want to talk about, like, what you're investing in right now. And it's like it's like the air is sucked out of the room. You know, that some people work in finance and it just blows my mind that they don't own any stock. And so I really believe women need to build their pool of capital, build their own family offices, and also know as a woman that you have you own 50 percent of your you know, however, the wealth was created. If your husband worked and you stayed home, you own 50 percent of that. You can decide where that goes. And so I think women just clearly I'm on my soapbox now, but they need to take more risk.

[00:27:02] Yeah. And I think risk aversion is one of the things that, like you were saying, like we need to matriculate out of the next generation coming up.

[00:27:11] You know, it feels like it was baked in and finding out those levels. I think it's bred any kind of a version for me is always bred through ignorance. Right. Anytime you have an exposure, like you're saying, just go along, go to the meeting, become exposed. Make those terms start washing over you. They become very un mystified. Once you hear them enough and you put in the sign value to them those kinds of things, I think that integrating into the high school measurements, you know, young women leaving high school should understand the stock market. And I can promise you about zero point two percent of my entire graduating class from high school, including and the women will probably point zero zero one percent understood or even grasp that the tenants of the stock market, let alone how to how to garner them, you know, and then you say people clam up like even people who are in finance and things of that nature. I do. I think it's based out of fear. Because I think it's fascinating to talk about, especially the areas I don't know of airline ticket until I climb through, but I don't have this kind of like fear based reluctance towards it. And I believe that education is the great equalizer. And so I think that encouraging young women who I run into a lot of artistic circles and encouraging artists like that, that does not give you a get out of jail free card from understanding the ins and outs of the American banking system.

[00:28:29] What are you talking about? We all function in this society, you know, and understanding the tenants, the core tenants of an axiomatic values of some of those are imperative to breaking down the gender bias.

[00:28:41] Yeah, it is interesting, having come from the acting career where you make a large you know, I'm just thinking of artists because I've learned a lot about them, especially through being a venture capitalist. We have a lot of celebrity investors in my fund. And it's interesting, when I pitch a potential investor and they happen to be a celebrity and you fall in two buckets, like either one is like the celebrity who made a chunk of change and spent it. And every time they make a chunk of change, they spend it. And then there's the celebrity who is like, I, I know I need to save this. And I am going to learn a little about investing. I am going to find a financial manager. And those are the like, you know, all the biggest celebrities, you know, who've had these like careers of longevity, who are able to then invest in their own pieces of artwork and produce their own movies because they then have the capital to do that. And so I find it's this sort of like up and down thing in terms of how artists invest. And yeah, it's I do know a lot of artists as well who just kind of check out and it's like, no, you will have. You'll have more flexibility in your career, too. Like investing is for everyone. It's not. And you don't have to have millions of dollars to invest. You can go buy a stock for, you know, 20 to 50 to 100 dollars, whatever you feel like putting aside. And I always like to talk about that. There was this Fidelity study done where they studied Fidelity, did this big study and said who made the most money in the stock market? And it was the people who forgot that they were invested in the stock market. So I like to think I like to tell people that so that you can think about how to invest. Don't get hung up. If the market goes up and down, just hold on. You're in your 20s to thirties when you like, you know, most people don't have any cash. They're just starting to try and build their careers, et cetera. Just every once in a while to go put some put some cash in the stock market. Fifty dollars, hundred dollars, whatever you read about some stock, you know, that seemed interesting to you or you believe that, you know, whatever some sort of like you buy some PMG because everyone's scrambling for toilet paper or whatever it is like. Just think about a reason why you might buy that stock because you believe in that company. And then just leave it there, leave it there, watch it grow, and then you take it out as needed. But I think that that's how you should think about investing in the stock market.

[00:31:26] Absolutely. I want to pivot a little bit before we end up rapping because I have my own personal demands from this podcast. And one of them is to pick your brain on my head. The area that is is kind of near and dear to me. And I kind of want to unpack a little bit of what you did on the Valley Girl show because of when it was started. And we got this little preview of you were talking about like nobody was doing it. And it was this weird monopoly between being pulled down off YouTube and all of these different things. I'm curious, when you went to curate, were you the sole curator of your interview? Questions and research? And when you went to speak to these people, where did you draw your inquiry's from? Did you have this written script? Did you look at everything that you guys were garnering about them and think, I'm going to ask them this, this and this? Like, how did you kind of choose you interviewed Elon Musk. You interviewed a lot of like it wasn't just what you got into the flow was like early.

[00:32:21] And they were all such early stage startups. And Elon Musk, I think, and I both probably feel like that is an interview we wish didn't still exist.

[00:32:32] That's what it is.

[00:32:34] I don't know. He was very cool. It was probably one of his first press interviews. No one had even heard.

[00:32:39] Yeah. He looks like a babe in the woods on. Yeah, that I did. Watch that one. Yeah. Jessica Alba too. I was telling you, I was like. She looks good. Then I was like, well, she always looks good. But then I realized it was a little bit older. But I'm curious, how did you kind of curate your interview question process and who did the editing? Did you have any handle in how the editing and production was done or were you simply the host?

[00:33:03] Such good questions. So season one, I, I went to my Nickelodeon show and then filmed it on a hiatus out of my parents garage. It was a disaster. I hired my brothers were much younger than me and duct taped lamps to the wall. It was such a mess. I knew these sort of editor guys from high school who helped me out and put together those first episodes, which I just cringe thinking about. And then after that, I went back to the Nickelodeon show and I I am so grateful because like Alby Hecht, who's now runs HLN, the Ajoy Network. But I basically said to him, I said, hey, can I sit in on production meetings? Like, I don't know how to run a show, it turns out. And he was so nice. He just kind of was like, yeah, sure. So I went in and I learned about, you know, the production design and lighting and just how they thought about that. And then I started studying like The Ellen DeGeneres Show. I mean, she's still one of my idols forever. Like I would just say to me. And just what she did. And I liked that it was so positive. And then it sort of became this like we called it the Valley Girl because of Silicon Valley. But then it became this like a Valley Girl thing where everything turned pink and we just ran with it. It was a very pink talk show. But every season got a little better. So then I came back and I hired a small production team and they helped me film. And that's when I learned about, you know, like a multi camera shoot and how that worked, because on the Nickelodeon show, it's just a different style of filming. This is like, you know, I'd be like, how many cameras do I need? How. What's the least amount of cameras that I need? Yeah. I don't want to pay any more rent movies than I have to. And so we started a three camera shoot. And then every you know, once you create a really solid format and you know what you're doing in terms of format, then you can kind of branch out from there. And just thing came to fruition. Games that people liked to play, we continued to play. We just continue trying to get people to eat. Edible cockroaches like that did not go well, you know, like your true story. Like there were things that people freaked out. People are really scared of reptiles. It turns out I just was like this any fun anymore? We're not going to do nothing, but. So you you build upon that, so every season I'd come back with new sponsors or whatever and be like, OK, we can use a lot of the props and things from last season and just like put a nice shine over it, you know, and there are certain seasons that definitely stand out to me, especially once we got to television was just like a different level of production. But then we would you know, I remember we we got a jib, we borrowed someone jib, which is like sort of hanging camera so you can get that cool hanging shot has a tiny, tiny room. And it just made it. It like brought it to a whole nother level. We from the Nickelodeon show, there was a lot of music and I had one of the music guys helped me put together like a music thing is like a valley girl. Little funny sound. Intro song that we cut together some fun clips of the show on. And in terms of the questions, I mean. I'm sure you're asking also because as a talk show host, there is no books on this. Right. I read everything. There was like the art of the interview was like that wasn't helpful. Hi. You know, there's really no books on it. And what I would say, having done thousands of interviews and and also been interviewed thousands of times. I really appreciate that you do your research. I think that says everything.

[00:37:03] I'll never forget this one interview I had on Fox Business and. We were on camera when I realized she had not done an ounce of research. And sometimes those shows move fast. So we give everyone the benefit of the doubt. But it's like, you know my name. Know what I'm doing.

[00:37:19] Like, know why I'm here? And it's fine in those situations. If you ever are being interviewed, you should just know that as soon people have no idea and just kind of interrupt and like, give them your whole spiel. But I really appreciate people doing the research. I did just we would book and we would film like, you know, a whole season in a week or two and I would do up to five interviews a day. I don't know how I did that in my early 20s. Like, I now think about that. There was I did some international interviews, too, at conferences and stuff. And I remember there was one day I did eight interviews and I was like, I can't do that again, because you're right, you're on camera. People expect a lot of you. You need to be on point. But yeah. So the first probably Four Seasons, I wrote all the questions myself. Of course, I would get input. I would ask PR. I work with the PR teams. I would always try to get different things so like that no one had talked about. So like with Sheryl Sandberg, I found this weird tidbit online somewhere that she had formerly been an eighties workout instructor. And I saw it and I apparently had I broke that piece of news. And if you watched that episode, she is shocked. She's like, I don't know how you bounce. And I was then quoted like three times in The Wall Street Journal or the show was that was the moment I sort of like, wow, this is crazy. It's like according to the Valley Girl show, you know, Sheryl Sandberg used to be a workout instructor. And I think you want to find those tidbits. And for me, I didn't want the PR fight a version. We would interview these CEOs who had been trained and trained and trained. And I would go in with a bunch of questions and know what I wanted out of the interview. And in the beginning, if you watched those first episodes, you know, I mean, they really haunt me because I didn't know how to do an interview. I just write a whole bunch of questions. Then I started being like, OK, these are topics. And here's the questions I'd like to ask under every topic. And then also, can I make it funny? And so, you know, it evolved like anything. No one's good at it the first time or the second or the third time. But I worked really hard on those interviews, especially at the end and then when we were on.

[00:39:37] We were on Fox in local Fox and appearance's go in and we were poached by. CBS CapEx in San Francisco. And when that happened, I was working 24/7 around the clock. The stories I could tell you from that season. I had moved the show to L.A. and then we would have to turn it around and get it to San Francisco. We would have to close caption it. I was not sleeping. I was newly married, had a baby and was contemplating raising this fund. And I my husband finally sat me down and was like, so this is not humanly sustainable. Yeah, you can't actually do this. But that was when I brought on a writer just to help me with, like monologues because the format had changed a little bit and I couldn't turn around these episodes in time. And the writer who I brought on her name is Liz Hanah, and she is currently b hottest like writer in Hollywood. After she wrote the Valley Girl show, she'd probably like, please never talk about this again. She's after her. She wrote the Valley Girl show. She wrote the Post with Meryl Streep. And so now she's written The Long Shot. She's on every cool show coming out as a writer. She's just she's awesome. And I am so excited to continue to watch her career. But she was funny and she did a really good job coming up with some jokes. And you need other people in there, too.

[00:41:00] At a certain point to just get all of the work done. But I really did. Ultimately, if you're an interview host, you're the one saying it at the end of the day. So if someone else is writing your questions for you and you should think about this in terms of moderating panels or giving presentations, like if someone tells you to say something that you don't feel comfortable with, you're representing yourself. So never say that.

[00:41:23] So we had not with necessarily with Liz, but there were situations where someone would say, oh, you have to ask them about that or you just need to go with what you feel comfortable with. And those were the lessons I learned. Mainly like those are more of like public interviews. When you do it in front of a large audience or what have you.

[00:41:42] Yeah. So I did all the writing for the most part until it came on and I did an extreme amount of research. And then also just how do I come up with an idea like I mean, some things worked and some things didn't because I was trying to make technology approachable. And at that time, it wasn't. It was. People just didn't get it. They didn't understand hardware. They didn't understand software. And so I tried to make crazy analogies. I remember we had these, like, equal guys on one time.

[00:42:13] They were running this company called Equal Field. I filled like a wagon with sugar, like equal like the steps, the sugar steps to sarco.

[00:42:23] It's not even funny when I'm telling you about it, but there are things like that were it was just it was fun to come up with and we would come up with just crazy games. And some people still bring up the Fab Cup to me, which was basically just like a rapid fire questions game. And I think we ultimately at the end call it rapid fire questions. But in the beginning we called it the fluff cut because it was this fluffy bucket. And then I learned that that was like a porn term. And so you just I mean, yeah, like I could tell you all day, but yes, I, I had my hands on everything. I thought I had to be the last person to really work with the interviews, even when Liz came on. Yeah. I just needed to know these people through and through and really figure out what made them tick. And if I didn't feel like I had enough information, I'd like reach out to their assistant or I would just be like, give me something. Give me some, like, fun fact. Like, I don't know, you know, I don't know anything about this. Yeah.

[00:43:24] And it does. And it differentiates. I mean. Well, back when you were doing it, as well as social media, I feel like I can find any little skeleton. I need to know if I'm looking for something.

[00:43:34] But back in that point, it is I think there was a lot of like old school reach out to even just five years ago. It was just a different game.

[00:43:42] And I think it's it's awesome because it's still the Wild West. But I also think I did a podcast recently where I was interviewed about I've started, you know, five podcasts over the past two years. And people are asking me about, like, you know, you seem to have this down. And and I'm a very organized individual. I get very creative in my organized space, you know?

[00:44:02] And so I have these these ledgers, which is why I tend to redo systems that I have. But I it's actually a pet peeve of mine. And I used to think it was because I'm a nerd. I love academia. You know, I always did. I have a master's degree in art history, which just means I like to go to lectures. That's pretty much it. You know, I like to just go and sit around those people and talk and and and essentially my issue with podcasting is not that it's the Wild West, that there's all this like anyone is doing anything. It's that the lack of structure. Like I just a lot of times if someone had pulled up a podcast that it was two hours and ten minutes and I was like, girl, you are asking it from me, but I will give it to you. I will give that to you. But I for the first 10 minutes, the host didn't tell me anything about what I was expected to hear. Whether or not there was gonna be more than one or two guests, like I couldn't figure out the format. Was she going to start reading her diary? What was going to happen there? You know, and I'm down with a lot, so I just. But there was no forecasting. And then when she did get her first guest on, I had realized very, very quickly that she didn't even know she hadn't even spoken prior to hitting record, like she didn't know how to pronounce one's name, let alone anything more than a bio that she had scrubbed off line. And I saw in the interview, I keep telling people, you know, I think that there is a slight onus for anybody who's going to get online and interview someone else that you you should do research. And how much that is, is however much time you have or how much you want to invest in it. But as someone put forth some kind of a structure and research, otherwise, let's not call it a podcast. Let's call it your daily musings. My twelve year old has a podcast. It's got more structure than 90 percent of what I find, you know, and maybe that's because she doesn't want to upset me in here. What you're hearing right now. But I think that there is a responsibility to start passing things out and it will probably come, like you said, with your show, eventually you start to find a beautiful narrative. But I do think that podcasts lack research and structure, and it is kind of daunting, especially to be interviewed when you go on someone's show and they're like, so what is it you do?

[00:46:07] Why am I? Did you find my name in the White Pages? How is this happening?

[00:46:12] You know, I completely agree. And people like being able to depend on something. You know, you get like that carpool karaoke show and it's a very simple format thing. Carpool karaoke in the car. And people love it, you know, hook off with a happy show. Very simple to follow. And I think people. Yeah, I think you're you're completely spot on that people need that structure. And I was actually thinking when you in the beginning, when you're like, this is what we're going to talk about. There's that like sort of like just a good general format to go by is tell what you're gonna tell him, tell him and tell him what you told him. And it's like a very simple format for any show and any research paper.

[00:47:02] It's the perfect paragraph.

[00:47:04] I'm bummed we have to wrap up, but I want to turn now towards goals that you have for the next one to three years. And it's important. I will not ever omit or dodge the current contemporary times. And you were alluding to earlier. So not only are we in the midst of the Cauvin 19 pandemic, how we are also in the midst of the tragedy, the pre cursing and post khaja and that tragedy with George Floyds murder and some of the riots that have happened.

[00:47:31] I'm in San Diego. You're in L.A. There has been a great deal of unsettling and disease with American society. And I'm an optimist. I believe that we're going to come out of this better. I hope for the sake of honoring George and as well as the entire community that he is representing, you know that we can do that. But I'm wondering with your company and your your goals reaching forward with both of those two things kind of compounding and coming into our reality, has it shifted or transformed your goals for the next one to three years or have they stayed the course? Have you doubled down? How does anything look for you? I mean, for all of your endeavors, you know, but for halogen in particular.

[00:48:15] I mean, yeah, like our goals changed at the beginning of Cauvin. And I am I'm devastated about what's going on and I'm uncertain about what's going to happen. Now, we may have to completely transform our goals again. You know, we invest in early stage companies and sometimes there's three people with an idea in a room. It's the riskiest asset class, which is why we do 30 deals per portfolio. And, you know, but it hedges in terms of like if you're an angel investor and you invest in a one off deal right now, it's probably not a good time to invest in a one off deal because, you know, at that stage, it's very likely that I'll go under. They say you need to do 10 deals in order to really see some payoff. And so I feel like our strategy has worked thus far where we invest in these early stage companies. We do 30 deals per portfolio, but week one of co bid. When you deal with early stage companies, you're getting the calls first because we move faster, our companies move faster because they're smaller. So we're hearing 60 percent hits to revenue, 90 percent hits to revenue depending on the business. And so we had two in one week talk to all 62 of our founders. We just called them, got a hold of them and ah, one hundred and fifty item checklist for diligence. Quickly transformed into three things. Yeah. And. Does this company have run or cash through January because we don't know how long this is going to last, too? Based on our experience, you know, pretty quickly, like in a year or two, if a founder can perform, and that's something to keep in mind for founders out there thinking about taking on investment, like prove yourself follow through, especially in the first year or two, because your investors won't give you more money if they feel like you didn't follow through in those first couple of years. So we say based on our experience with these founders, can they execute and take this thing all the way regardless? And then the third thing was, is this business covered, sustainable and beyond? And so while we were about to invest in three new very risky deals that we didn't have experience with the founders, I basically said I put those on hold, which was devastating for the founders.

[00:50:40] And I said, hey, I'm not saying we're not going to we just need to go check out our current portfolio. And then we chose our top performing performing deals. We doubled down on those. And then we were we're early stage fund. We don't have billions of dollars to invest. You know, call me in 10 years. And that's definitely one of my goals. But we're still growing. So we have to be really, really thoughtful, as you always should with your capital. But we we tried to support every founder in every in some way. So we invested in some we hosted a pitch day for some and our our investors invested in some of those. We put together a whole list of resources from debt opportunities to credit lines to banks they could talk to. We had someone tracking the SBA loan, which changes still sort of daily. And we also, like, offered everyone a free hour of PR and other business services just to support whatever they needed.

[00:51:45] My team, Alexis and Ashley from my team, actually one of our companies was growing so fast. So some companies are doing really well. We have this company called Pride. That's like it's like a teenage zoom zoom call. So they're obviously taking off. And they were taking off a little before, but they were growing so quickly that Alexa and Ashley kind of took over their marketing arm for a minute. And now we've helped them put some people in place there. So we were actually helping operate some companies, doing whatever we possibly could. So in terms of goals, we're still hashing those out. But what I'm really proud of is that we put together those goals in one week and we've already executed the plan.

[00:52:27] And that's in two months. We've, you know, invested capital into our best performers and we've supported everybody else to the extent we can. And we continue to do that. And it was not our normal plan at all.

[00:52:42] I do hope, you know, down the road we're on our second fund. I do hope, you know, we raised fund three. We raised fund for and they continue to grow and we continue to grow our team because we're still a startup as well.

[00:52:56] I hope that investing in women is seen more as an opportunity. And I hope we hope that we can help prove that we already are a little with our data that we're collecting on our founders and female founders in general. And and then also just, you know, goals for the world. I hope everyone sees diversity as just an asset to every single business. That's something we're constantly thinking about. So, yes. So that's that's what I would say in terms of our goals. But setting goals is pretty important.

[00:53:28] Yeah. And way to pivot Scullin's 60 companies in one week into transitioning all of that over.

[00:53:33] I mean, do we have a team that all of it. Yes, it was a lot.

[00:53:36] It was I would not want to stare that down on that Monday, and that would be a little bit less. It's a several it's like a whole new cappuccino machine. That's not coffee. I measure everything in coffee cups or especial shots. That's like a machine has a whole nother purchase. That's your own personal barista.

[00:53:53] I'm wondering. So this is my final question. It's my favorite part. And everyone knows who's been listening to me for the past couple of years. But I'm wondering if you walked up to someone in office, a safe social distance or they approached you sometime this week and it was a young woman or a female identified or non binary individual. And they said, listen, Jesse, I'm so glad I caught you. I just finished up learning the entire ins and outs of the film industry. I went to UCLA. I got everything done by buttoned up. I know all bit about it. I've gone to a ton of auditions and I have film industry experience and I've decided I'm going to keep all of that. And I'm also going to pivot now and going to starting my own investment fund and come from a family that's got some background there. But yeah, I'm just going to like, you know, bootstrap it and get going. One of the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know today.

[00:54:49] I would say go for it. I really think especially women, we need more female investors across the board. I would say baby steps just go one step at a time. There are mountains and mountains to climb. And then this goes for fundraising across the board, whether you're fund raising for a fund or for a business, because most people don't have a million dollars to do starting a business in their back pocket. In fact, the majority does. So they typically go raise money. I, I am sort of frustrated when women in particular come to me and say, well, everyone said, no, no one will invest in my company. And I say, OK, well, how many people have you talked to this l. Like, eight. OK, so that's not enough people. I talked to five hundred for my first fund. No joke. And you should plan on going out and talking to at least one hundred. If in 20 meetings you are hearing no's still go back to some of those people and say, hey, like what was the issue here? And it may be such a simple. Fix that, you could, like, throw a slide into your deck that addresses it. And it's no longer an issue. It could be something you haven't thought of before. But definitely listen in those situations. If you plan on going out and having 100 meetings, you'll raise it. You'll raise your your capital, whatever the number is. Just don't get weighed down by the nose. There's going to be a lot of that. And that's in any profession. But somehow it feels very personal when you're raising money and don't look at it that way. Look at it like I kind of talk to these incredible people. And then when they don't invest, say, can you tell me why? And usually shoots, like, has nothing to do with you. It's like, well, actually, like, most of my money is tied up right now, so I don't have any cash to invest. It's like, OK, well that's simple and it has nothing to do with my business or like we already invested too in too many consumer focused funds. And I'm like, oh, OK, I get that. They're trying to diversify their portfolio. I'll go back to their next fund. So I'd just say get through the nose and plan on having a hundred meetings.

[00:57:05] Nice. That's good. And I think you're being realistic, too. That's the scary part. And it's good. It's good to say those things.

[00:57:12] I think people can do at least 40 or you're like 100, 100.

[00:57:17] It'll probably be less so like that.

[00:57:20] Yeah. There's something probably vitally wrong with what you're doing if it's if it's 100 and all knows. But I think that's right.

[00:57:26] That's kind of the attitude of just go until, you know, there's the Hollywood formula. It's not about like, you know, quick breaks and stuff like that. It's like seven years where there's a mathematician that broke down. How long if you audition? Three to four times a week in Hollywood, it takes to make a big role, a main leading role.

[00:57:43] It's like an over. It takes 10 years to have an overnight success.

[00:57:47] Yeah. Exactly. And then it's like everyone's like, oh, they just got here and you're like, no, I've been holding it down a thousand percent. Okay, so I've got go for it baby steps and plan on talking to one hundred people and don't get weighed down by the nose. Just adjust as you go. Those are perfect. I love that Jesse. It went by too quickly. I'm going to have to have you back on. This was fascinating.

[00:58:12] This was so fun. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I'm glad you're, you know, showcasing all of these incredible women because we need more people doing that.

[00:58:20] Awesome. Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that. And for everyone listening, I appreciate you. We've been speaking with Dressy--- Jesse Draper. She's the founder of Halogen Ventures and the host and creator of the Emmy nominated The Valley Girl Show.

[00:58:35] You can find out more about Jesse and her team and her fund on Halogen vc dot com.

[00:58:42] I appreciate all of you listening. I appreciate your time. And until we speak again next time, remember to stay in love with the world and always bet on yourself. Slaínte.

View Details

Today I am talking with New York Times Best Selling Author Eve Rodky. In her New York Times bestselling book Fair Play: A Game-Changing Solution for When You Have Too Much to Do (and More Life to Live), Eve Rodsky applies her expertise in organizational management to a problem closer to home – a system for couples seeking balance, efficiency, and peace in their home

Social media handles Twitter: @eve_rodsky Instagram + Facebook: @everodsky

View Details

LINDSAY LUV, labeled the “DJ to the Stars”by MTV and a “Turntable Goddess” by Victoria’s Secret, is a celebrity DJ, Music Supervisor, Influencer and WSET Certified Sommelier with a devoted following. Luv made a name for herself by spinning the hottest nightclubs, private events and star-studded parties in NYC before relocating to Los Angeles and becoming one of the most sought-after names across the industry and around the world. Lindsay Luv is favored in fashion, beauty, lifestyle and celebrity circles: some of her top clients include Bentley, Chanel, Twitter, Equinox, Spice Girls, Guess, Valentino, Paramount, Rachel Zoe, Naked Cashmere, CBS, WhoWhatWear, Refinery29, Rodeo Drive, The Emmys, Victoria's Secret, Express, Maybelline, Kim Crawford Wines and Elle to name a few.

@lindsayluv (Instagram) Website: www.lindsayluv.com

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with DJ, music supervisor, influencer Soma Yei and digital media strategist Lindsay Luv key points addressed where Lindsay's career that has spanned over a decade in the music industry, serving as a DJ to some of the most elite venues around the world. We also looked at Lindsay's roles as a music supervisor, Influencer Somaiya and her most recent endeavor as a digital media strategist or for some of the most famous names in Hollywood. Stay tuned for my chat with Lindsay Luv.

[00:00:37] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status. For industry, we aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:35] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Lindsay Luv.

[00:01:41] She is a DJ, music supervisor, influencer, suddenly a and a digital media strategy. Sir, you can locate more about her and what she's doing at w w w dot. Lindsay Luv dot com. That is l i n d s a y l u v dot com. Welcome, Lindsay.

[00:02:01] Hi. Nice to. Nice to see you guys.

[00:02:04] Absolutely. I'm excited to have you one. And we were talking pre production and I was telling you that you're a first DJ.

[00:02:10] We've spoken to over 220 women, female identified non binary individuals for the series. And we finally have our first DJ on. So I cannot wait to pepper you with all the questions for everyone listening and who may be new to our series. I mean, first, I'm going to offer you a bio on Lindsay before I start peppering her with questions. But prior to that, a roadmap for today's podcast. You can follow along the trajectory in which we form our inquiry out of. We'll first look at Lindsay's academic and professional background that kind of brought her to her current endeavors of being a DJ, a music supervisor, influencer, and most recently, the digital media strategist, as well as a solmi, a demo unpack what being all of those things means to her and her life. And we'll get into some of the industry specifics, kind of based along what a lot of our audience members have asked in regards to Los Angeles and the New York scenes in music and how it pertains to DJs and kind of just some basic questions as a novice that I have, as well as maybe some music particulars that she read us in on. And then we'll look at goals and plans that Lindsay may have over the next one to three years. They did digital media strategizing and position that she's reaching recently embarked on. We'll wrap everything up with advice that she has for those of you who are looking to contact her, maybe emulate some of her success, things of that nature. So as promised, prior to peppering her with questions, a quick bio on Lindsay Lindsay Luv label the DJ to the stars by MTV and a turntable goddess by Victoria's Secret is a celebrity DJ, music supervisor, influencer and WECT certified Somaiya with a devout and a devout following Luv made a name for herself by spinning the hottest nightclubs, private events and star studded parties in New York City before relocating to Los Angeles and becoming one of the most sought after names across the industry and around the world. Lindsay Luv is favored in fashion, beauty, lifestyle and celebrity circles. Some of her top clients include Bentley, Chanel, Twitter, Equinox, Spice Girls, Gas, Valentino, Paramount, Rachael Zo Naked Cashmere, CBS Who What Where Refinery29, Rodeo Drive, the Emmys, Victoria's Secret Express, Maybelline, Kim Crawford Wines and Elle, to name a few. So that's a massive list. Lindsay, I Luv that. It's so exciting and I expect nothing less. I'm so am so excited to kind of climb into everything that you've done in your past with DJing and stuff. But before we get to that, can you drop everyone that's listening into kind of a brief overview of what your academic background and early professional life was prior to your current endeavors?

[00:04:50] Yes, I grew up in Boston, so I grew up on the East Coast and both my parents were educators. They both worked in the public Boston public schools and then the high schools, you know, suburban high schools and so forth. They actually worked on a Navajo reservation before that. So I spent a lot of time visiting there as well, which is. Yeah, which is really cool. But I grew up in Boston, suburbs of Boston. I went to school there. And then I went to first I went to Miami University of Ohio. I decided I wanted to get out of Boston, try something completely different. So I went for a year to Miami University of Ohio, and then I kind of missed home, which I wasn't expecting. And I ended up transferring to UMass Amherst and I graduated high honors from UMass Anvers. And then I went on to take I finished my last year of college with an internship at Comedy Central in New York City. So I finished I was at Comedy Central because I originally want to work in comedy and sketch comedy. Right. So big transition. But that was where I kind of started out everything.

[00:05:50] It's still a rowdy scene, though. They both feel very rowdy. Rae comedy writing and the ones that I know, the comedy writers that I know are based out of L.A. and stand up comedians alike. Still, it's very comparable to like the music scene as far as things are moving very quickly and nightly, even in the corporate like I was at comedy, such which is a very corporate company.

[00:06:09] But, you know, the disposition of the people coming through all day is definitely really kind of wild. So I was there during the first season of Chappelle's Show and some of the nine one one some of the big show was really a cool time to be calm.

[00:06:21] Yeah. I don't think there's a bad time, but that sounds like an epic time. Chappelle's Show really changed the industry. I'm wondering, so how did you do the transition? How what was the great switch into.

[00:06:34] Yeah. So when I was finishing up my internship at comedy, I kind of I've always been a big music nerd. I mean, growing up, I was. My parents are both super hippies. I went to Woodstock and all that. I grew up with, like, incredible records. My vinyl collection today is everything they've collected through their lives. So I have this, like, unbelievable collection of all the best. You know, the Grateful Dead and the Bruce Springsteen and Neil Young and all that. So I grew up in a music household. So for me, music had always been a threat in my life. And as I was finishing the comedy thing, I kind of did an internal look and was like, what do I really want to be doing? And I realized that music was calling to me. And there was a job posting for a music development director at what? A company that's still around called The Orchard. They do. They basically do all the digital music, you know, on Apple, Apple Music and all that. They do a lot of cataloging for all kinds of artists, independent all the way up. So I went in there and I was this super young girl and I kind of went in and I just said I went in for a secretary job and I kind of sold them on the idea that they really should hire me to be their kind of music development director, going dance festivals and conferences and so on, and connecting with new talent and kind of weeding out some amazing musicians and things to get involved in the catalog.

[00:07:46] And while I was there, the owners of the orchard at the time were also working with the band called The Raven Ettes, which were a huge rock band on Columbia Records. And I said, how can I get involved with you guys helping kind of grow that as well. So then I was kind of putting myself both on the corporate side of my day job and then kind of injecting myself into essentially their management team for this this big growing rock band. And that was kind of where it started. And I actually am still close friends with that band stay. They played at my wedding. And it was just kind of this amazing kind of introduction on both sides, the talent side and then the corporate side of the music industry right away.

[00:08:26] Do you find that you're. I mean, so did a lot of your techniques in which you started offering the industry start to change within, like the natural evolution of what you were doing?

[00:08:35] When I first started at the orchard, it was about seeds still. So that gives you any idea? It was really crazy because right at that time, they were trying to they were just starting to try and get all of the artists, because, remember, a lot of these people are independent artists. So it wasn't like the Lady Gaga of the world. It was like these very kind of artists. So they were trying to get them to get all of their music digital. So they were trying to get them to get their C.D. placed online. And it was right when Apple Music was opening up to letting like a full catalog of anybody get their music on Apple, because remember, originally it was just Apple was choosing which artists kind of could be on Apple. So this is when it was opening up to everybody. So our job went from essentially just getting artists and their C.D. or whatever it was to getting all these people to transition into the new era of digital music. So I really was kind of at the forefront of watching that entire thing unfold. It was it was really interesting trying to get people to understand it's not that you have to give up your C.D. or whatever it is that we have to get you on line two. And what a great world that can be and how it can reach so many more people. And then, you know, it's singles and a whole new world of how music runs kind of.

[00:09:41] Absolutely. And deals for the artists their whole lives change with the different record deals and things like that attached to it. So where did it when did you start becoming a DJ? Like, when did you start getting your feet wet with that?

[00:09:53] So I from that job, I moved into another job where I worked for a big music marketing agency. They had lots of major clients from like liquor brands to Kosofsky, Socky and all these different lifestyle brands. And they wanted to start a music based kind of marketing program. So essentially, I got hired. It was a company based in Chicago. I was in New York armed to kind of create music events throughout New York City, around up and coming artists, not people who have necessarily already completely exploded, but more of the people right under them that we're like right on the cusp of full kind of exclosure or what we thought at the time. Some of those people went on to be huge. Some of that you never heard of again. But I'll I'll take you through just a few quick ones. At the time, I was booking artists that now here are some of the ones, you know, Chromeo Justice Future Islands. You know, there was a bunch of these artists that were just kind of like starting out. So I was essentially reaching out, trying to find cool independent artists to create events around to tie in with these brands. So essentially brand marketing through music in New York City. So it was an epic job. I have to tell you, it was maybe my very favorite job of all time. It went on for a while. And what happened was I connected with some really great DJs while I was doing this, including the late D.J. AM, who was a massive club DJ. He's huge in the L.A. scene. He was he kind of got famous for being engaged to Nicole Richie, but he was like a very revered DJ. He ended up. Plane crash. I'm sure you heard about all the things that happened to him, but he became a friend of mine. And what was happening, and this is how I got started DJing, is I was sending him a lot of music that I was finding all these independent artists. I was. Collecting through my jobs, I would say here, check this band out, check this band out there from Toronto or whatever, and he'd say, this is great. And then one day he turned to me, said, you know, you know a lot about music. Have you ever considered DJ? I said, oh, my gosh, that sounds crazy. I'm such like a business girl. I can't even imagine trying to take on a talent job. And at one point, my company that I have been working for folded. So they ended some major funding situation. And I was looking for a new job in New York City. I was looking for that new corporate job. It was very neat. So it was very hard to find. And I'll never forget, I went into interview advice one day for a job with them doing music marketing. And I stood outside in the snow after the snow was coming down. I said, you know what? Screw it. I'm just going to try it. I'm just going to go get the equipment that my friend D.J. Am said. I'm going to call my friends who own a nightclub. I'm going to ask me if I can go practice during the day when the club is closed. And I'm just going to teach myself how to DJ. I'm going to get to use my Vinals and I'm going to learn the proper way and I'm going to do it. And there was like very few female teachers at this time. It was like this was over 10 years is like 12 years ago. So there was female DJs, but they were like few and far between. And I've always been somebody that likes to take on industries that are not necessarily known for being super female oriented. I'm just that person I like to take, I guess like I like to take a challenge. And so I say, you know, I'm just going to try it. And so I went everyday with my headphones at my stuff and I'd sit there trying to learn how to DJ. And in the middle of this club, with nobody in it, in the middle of the day, while waiting to hear if I got this corporate job, which I didn't end up getting at the time I was interviewing for all these corporate jobs. I started building up kind of momentum around my DJing. The club said, Would you like to take a night? You got to do everything. You've got a DJ. You got your people to come out. And it started to just parrello and poni and snowball from there into where I am today. So we kind of just kind of just took over. And eventually I just said, you know what, I'm paying my bills and I'm making more money doing this than I did in the corporate world. So let's just keep going. My parents said, hey, you'll figure it out, you're gonna be moving home. So I worked my butt off. Really.

[00:13:44] There were times when I want to climb into it now because there's I think there's a lot of misconceptions. And you just alluded to one and I don't know the current climate, but I do know as of like five years ago.

[00:13:54] Well, I think that I do know of a couple in L.A. right now. They're still doing it. But when people hear a DJ, there's first of all that the position has transitioned a great deal just with tech. You know, and what people are employing there is completely different, you know, and a certain individual autonomous tracks, all sorts of things. But before we get into some of the specifics, the actual job, as you just kind of mentioned, of D.J. was supposed to it back in the day, like they did a lot of their own marketing for the club for the night that they were doing DJing on both coasts. Yeah. So you really had to train yourself up in advertising. Word of mouth. How did you start doing that for yourself back in the early days as opposed to how it's done? Now, it seems like social media and a lot of things like that will take place. But back before, social media was like the go to for which club to head, you know, how were you doing that?

[00:14:47] That's so true. So, I mean, social media was still existed. It was probably more like MySpace and Facebook and MySpace was very music oriented. So I actually had a really incredible profile. I probably I would say I was the most quote unquote, you know, MySpace famous in the sense that I had a lot of eyes on them. And I think a lot of that had to do with all my work and music and being such a music friendly profile. You went on it? I had a playlist playing, you know, so it was very conducive to that world. But so that was very helpful. But the big thing was I just injected myself into the scene. I live downtown. I lived in New York, downtown, and I just injected myself. And part of this is just being super young, super single and just kind of going out and talking to people and seeing what was out there. But I essentially just injected myself deep into the scene of getting the word out. I made my own fliers. I would call the clubs and say, I need you to do this, this. And the other thing I was doing everything from start to finish. I was calling all my friends, texting my friends with the fliers. It was like a no holds barred kind of self campaign. I mean, I was barely getting paid any money, but I just kind of kept my head straight. I didn't focus on money, which I think is important. I think when you start out, there's this conception today that you're supposed to go from zero to one hundred overnight and it's OK to just start at zero and kind of just, you know, work your way up. And I mean, I had to do a lot of work to make the money to pay the bills because, you know, it wasn't what it had to move home. But I was working overtime trying to get my little bits of money working, maybe sometimes three gigs in one night. I mean, I would go from one club, play like a two hour set, march over to another club, play a two hour set, because, you know, New York's open so late. So I was, you know, staying up, you know, and drinking Red Bull to stay awake because of. So tired and I never drink what I DJ really sorry. I was very focused and it's a lot of work. It was a lot of work.

[00:16:41] Did you develop a persona early on or is that something that came later? You know, persona is kind of blew up. I feel like in the arts, in the early author, it became like this Daft Punk, even though they're not DJs, this kind of like, you know, full on costume. But I grew into that. Did you have your own persona when you began?

[00:16:58] I feel like I did because I was of the era that there were DJ names. It wasn't just like your classic actual given name. Right. That's why I'm still Lindsay Luv. Sometimes I look at my go, God, this is kind of corny being ones you Luv still, but it's just who I am. You know, I mean, maybe not my personal home, but it's who I am as a as a brand at this point. Yeah. My DJ friend, DJ A.M. actually gave me that name. That was kind of how it worked. Is that another DJ? What kind of name? You know. So I just went with it and it's stock and it just it just made sense. I was just always really friendly and talking to people. And I guess that was kind of what it was. It kind of rhymed. Lindsey Luv. It was L.L.. A lot of people call me L.L. still, so I just went with it.

[00:17:40] Did it correspond at all with the style that you played in? And also, did your style change per venue?

[00:17:46] Did you kind of morph into the venue you were going into or did they expect you to bring the Lindsay Luv style that touch you so well on everything in my career?

[00:17:54] So I would say, like, you know, some DJs are just they're known for one thing, like when you think of TSA or you think of house music. Right. Or you think of like, you know, some people, they're like really known for their technical skills. They scratch like crazy. You know, you going to flash or somebody is like really famous scratchers, OK? For me, it was that would I would still say is my greatest asset as a DJ is my understanding of how to place the right to soundtrack, my set around the room and around an event and around the people there and around the mood and the moment and the time of day. And I still do that today. So it's really for me. I've never used a setlist. So I go into every gig and I just go with I feel it out as I go. So sometimes just to be super focused because I'm trying to think of the next song of what what makes sense, which to me makes it so that it's never stale. Said you never hear the same set over and over and over again. But yeah, I feel like that's been a huge part of my career, why I've gotten such traction with so many different types of clients and clubs.

[00:18:56] Yeah. And that kind of drops into one of the greats ask questions. And according to Google Analytics that I was we were my team was looking at to see kind of what the ethos of the entire Internet was asking DJs.

[00:19:08] And one of them was and if given a choice to play a song that, you know, we'll make the crowd go crazy or play a song that you like, that will get a lukewarm reaction, which would you play? And I'm guessing it's the crowd or would you at some point choose you?

[00:19:24] I feel like I do a little bit of both. I am I have to say that I have never fully. I don't want to say kowtow to just like the mainstream, because I feel like that would just make me feel bored, honestly. I love to interject music that people aren't expecting or I Luv to surprise people by, like, jumping from a song that they Love, like that, that, you know, that Justin Bieber track that's really hot right now would then do a crazy remix of it and mix it into maybe like an old school prince song and then move it back into like AC DC and then bring it back to something current, you know, like Chromeo or whatever. So that's kind of been my thing. So, like, I kind of feel like what I do well is touching on everybody's needs a little bit. And you can't be a complete people pleaser in any job. You know, you're always gonna make somebody want something else and whatnot. But for me, I like to just run the gamut and kind of surprise people and surprise himself. So, yeah, it's cool.

[00:20:25] I would say, well, I'm starting from you know, you mentioned your beginning story. I'm just going to your friends club and getting practice. But I'm curious. Do you have. Did did you have any mentors in the beginning?

[00:20:35] Aside from yourself and in a lonely club? And also, do you have inspirations still that you draw from?

[00:20:42] Yeah. So that was actually and still is one of the hardest parts. So teaching is such a solo career in so many ways. It's not like you have like a squad of I mean, other DJs are there to, like, mentor you. A lot of the time I feel like DJ A.M. was the first person who kind of took a chance on me in the sense of like, you know, really giving me that kind of boost to go after it. And more importantly, he gave me a bunch of like tips and tools, but he lived in California. I lived in New York. So it was kind of a remote mentorship in that way. There were few male DJs that helped me out in the very beginning. I would ask them for advice or things. But I have to tell you, I actually think one of the hardest things was I started getting a lot of gigs, especially ones that other people might have wanted. It's very competitive. And so what happened was, especially with the male DJs. A lot of them chalk it up to, oh, they're just hired her because it's a novelty. Right. Which now, 12 years later, not so novelty anymore. Right. I've been doing it for twelve years. So it was a bit of that feeling of like, you know, there was a lot of like competition. And so what happened was sometimes you feel like as a talent, you almost get stuck. It was like you got to this point where you're getting this work, but you're too scared to then go backwards and ask for help. Is any help that it looks like weakness, like I've got to this point, but I don't know how to do this. So was a lot of like self teaching, self navigating, sometimes even the very beginning, kind of fake it till you make it like just figure out as you go and get better. And it was like people were watching me kind of learn as I went. But if the music's good, that is the most important thing and you can't teach that. So I always had a great ear for great music and I feel like that's why I was able to thrive even when other skills weren't quite there. And even today, I would say there's things I could learn that I never really felt comfortable asking help for. I never went to a DJ school, which might have been helpful. The time it was very like. Novelty, it wasn't something that a lot of people did. So I kind of just got like, all right. I got to teach myself.

[00:22:43] So I just sit there with those listening over and over.

[00:22:46] It's crazy. Plus, those kinds of things change. I mean, that industry has changed so much, Cheena, that education. It seems like everyone, regardless of what's going you have or haven't had and have to educate regularly taken seriously, too.

[00:22:59] That was another really big thing. As a female, I wanted to make sure that I learned properly, properly. So that's why I was really big on using vinyl and then vinyl. What's with the computer programs and all that? I already had like one thing against me almost being like a female DJ that they were gonna say always this a gimmick or whatever. So I was like dead set on. Let me do this the proper way. I'm going to show up to the basketball court with a basketball instead of a tennis ball. I'm going to make sure that I am like, yeah, you know, showing them that I know what I'm doing.

[00:23:27] What's been your greatest whom and what or whom has been your greatest inspiration to date?

[00:23:33] Woo!

[00:23:37] You know, from a personal standpoint, I feel like obviously the artists that I worked with, the DJ and the raven that's watching people that I cared about that and they all really started from humble beginnings. And a lot of ways, you know, they all really put in the work and put in the time. So that was on a personal level, very inspiring on a kind of broader scale. I actually remotely was in the same scene as Lady Gaga. So she kind of ran circles in kind of the same circles as me in New York City. We were not like friends by any means, but I kind of saw her from inception almost all the way through to the point that we actually played together at the Victoria's Secret fashion show in Paris. And we talked and we you know, we connected. I was very friendly with her. She's godmother to a of trumpet players, kids. And we had a lot of like six degrees of separation. And she was also I'm a I'm Italian and she's Italian. She's from Italian American family. And she's just kind of always had this very all guard kind of New York scene, New York kid running around New York vibe to her. And I felt like I really connected on that level. I really understood that. Obviously, she went on to be much bigger than me, but I felt like watching her. She's been so honest about a lot of her struggles personally and professionally. She's been a great voice for the people. She's been such a strong and powerful woman. She keeps reinventing herself. So for me, professionally, I feel like watching Lady Gaga is great. And also she's a Luvly person. She's just a nice person. So I Luv seeing good people thrive.

[00:25:11] Absolutely. Me too. And I feel like the documentary kind of got to some of that that you just never saw even she had. She does have a very authentic air.

[00:25:20] But I do think that that centric. But that's kind of what makes her you know, it makes every artist that right.

[00:25:28] Yeah. And do you have any preparatory mash ups or remakes? Is that you use or do you kind of just function in a realm of other.

[00:25:35] OK. So there was I feel like I kind of drew a line in the sand at one point in my career. I feel like there's different types of DJs. And this is where it got interesting because at the time it seemed like it was just club DJs, right. Club DJs or like people like. Yes. Who produced music. And then they play it like a DJ live. OK. So there's like two types of DJ. DJ A.M. was essentially a club DJ. It's not that he never did any personal productions, but he was famous for playing other people's music, mashed up, mixed up, remixed live in clubs. I was the most interested in that. And at the time, it made sense for me to be in the club scene. And at the time I started trying to do some production of remixes. But to me, production, being a music producer or even just for remixes is a very different world than like live club DJ. Afghan remixes for a few clients, including the Raven Ettes on which was with Colombia, which was a great opportunity. I said to myself, you know, where do I see myself? Down the road. I always knew I wanted a family and I didn't want to be like, you know, doing the festivals when I was older and being on the road all the time, never being with my kids. I kind of drew a line in the sand at some point. I said, you know, there's this great world of corporate DJ gigs, meaning like with brands, fashion brands. And that was kind of who was gravitating to me. And I was gravitating towards. They Luvd that I could dress up. I Luvd what they were balut together. It was kind of interesting marketing for me, bringing back my marketing roots. So at some point I said, where am I? Where am I going? Where do I want to be? And I kind of started to transition out of the club scene, which I felt like was essential to get me kind of the notability as a DJ or what. But I started moving into, you know, more of the corporate DJ world, which became bigger money quality over quantity. I'll put it like that. It was like less gigs throughout. The mother wasn't working every night at a nightclub. I wasn't working till 4:00 in the morning. I'd be working from seven to 10, you know, for like a Chanel or whoever it is. And that kind of became I knew my new normal and that led into music, supervision and all these other kind of behind the scenes work. So I moved away from production.

[00:27:38] OK, where do you get your songs? Where do you get the exposure? Where do you where do you go? What do you listen to?

[00:27:45] I spend hours online reading blogs, music blogs. I'll do the general Apple Music and just see what's like what's hot. And then I'll do the all the intricate music blogs. I will spend a lot of time just downloading like a million remixes of each song I like. And then I literally listen through them and delete all the ones I don't like, so I could raid the best of the best. I know if there's a song like Yummy by Justin Bieber, which sometimes I'm like, oh God, you know, I'll sit there and I'll download all the remixes of that and then I will delete all the ones I don't like until I find these like, perfect remixes to me that make the song that much better. And so that's kind of how I do it. I just kind of sit there and try and find all the best, best new music. And then I obviously have a crazy catalog of all the old stuff. I've been DJ for 12 years, so I don't even want to know. I've had to get like terabytes.

[00:28:34] Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:28:38] For sure. Do you? I'm wondering throughout the past.

[00:28:41] I can't decide which one I think would be more applicable towards having an agent. Have you ever had an agent who has ever been prescribed for you to have an agent? And if so, in which endeavor the club scene or more now the corporate?

[00:28:52] Actually, interesting. So I had a lot of meetings early on with D.J. specific agents in New York City. And sometimes it was like I wasn't enough of whatever they wanted. And sometimes it was like I felt like they were trying to put me in the wrong zone, like I was trying to tell them this is where I want to head. And they were like, well, this is what we do. And the two weren't working. So I was the first to say, like, I'm not interested. The hardest part for me is that I started on the business side and the corporate side. So I really understood the prescription of being kind of a talent management agency, marketing, all of that. So I made it very hard for me to work with certain people and let them kind of push me to the side and run the ship. It was like nobody knows my business better than I do. So one year of my career, I went with an influencer specific agency. They wanted somebody that and their a major agency. They rep huge people. They didn't have anybody that was music oriented. They really wanted a music person. So when I went with them, I was looking to get more things like headphone endorsement deals. I was trying to branch out to this whole new zone and I didn't really need help with the DJ. That was kind of like, I'm doing that. Now help me kind of get in music supervisor jobs and play listing for Spotify. And that's what I wanted to be doing. Being a hotel music supervisor, they didn't quite they didn't quite know how to wrap their head around it. And additionally, they were kind of, I don't say screwing up my DJ flow, but they didn't understand the DJ world. So together, the two were not symbiotic. And I eventually parted ways respectfully. Since then, I've talked to people and each time I feel like, you know what?

[00:30:32] I just at this point, 12 years and I feel like I get what I'm doing, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't. I always think if you don't know how to run your own business really effectively, there's nothing wrong in knowing when to ask for help and to know who's great at that. So I would be the first to say, if you feel like you can't manage it, absolutely reach out to somebody that seems like the right fit the cab.

[00:30:51] Nice. So I'm wondering and with getting into with a music supervisor, I'm hoping you can clarify a little bit of that role. You did just a little bit. You know, Spotify playlists tell music and curation management, things like that.

[00:31:04] But you can you can define that term even more.

[00:31:07] Yeah. So I originally I called a brand music supervision and it kind of morphed into a bunch of different name sounds, styling, sound design, music supervisor. What was happening is beyond just the playing live. There were so many moments. I call it like sound tracking moments. You know, even when my daughter was born, I had a playlist playing when she was born. So when I think of her birth, I think of her coming out to Rumble by Link Wray and then, like, Born to be wild. Like, that's how I see almost the birth. Right. And I feel like life is full of these moments or these these experiences and music the same way smell kind of set the stage in your memory and your sensory memory of what's going on. So what was happening is a lot of brands started reaching out and saying, like, can you help us soundtrack this moment or what?

[00:31:52] What not? I did it for a lot of hotel groups so I would help them with Spotify stations. You know, maybe people were going in their rooms and they wanted a chillout playlist or they're on a work trip. And so there would be in the room there, we would talk about, you know, I did it for the W hotels. Ian Schrager, public hotels. I was doing a bunch of different kind of play listing of different types of like chill out, you know, at the W or whatever for people to listen to when they were in the rooms or whatnot or working out. Then Equinox hired me in 2018, as there are Spotify music director. So I was essentially putting together all types of fitness playlists for them. So if somebody went on a machine, the goal? I don't know if they ever reach this goal because a lot obviously has happened. But was for you could take your phone and you could put it over like a fruit with a barcode and it would pull up the playlist and then there'd be playlists for running or for lifting or what not that I was curating for them in. And I've had a lot of these one off projects. I did it for major trade show in Vegas, all the music that was running through the trade show. So for all these fashion projects in Vegas, I was doing all their music that was running through the trade show and then some of their online marketing and then celebrity clients. I've actually had some celebrity clients where I literally curate music for them, for their fitness workouts. And so when I worked a lot with a Spice Girl, Mel be doing her fitness playlists in the past and other clients like that.

[00:33:18] So nice. Yeah. How did people find you or how do you feel? How do you connect with them without an agent. Is it. I mean, you've been in it so long. I feel like your art of mouth now, like a good, you know, source just happens.

[00:33:29] But in the beginning, did you just kind of search out certain industries or certain areas? Unity.

[00:33:36] I think that it's definitely I have to be honest. I'm like a crazy I would say I'm like a hustler, really. I really hustle my game. You know, I don't come from some of the people you see, like a lot of these celebrity DJs. And it's no fault to them. But they come from these, you know, their kids of famous parents or whatnot. So maybe they're already in the mix. And I come from two teachers from Boston. So there was nobody in my family who was remotely connected to this world. And from a young age, if you look at what it said in my high school yearbook, it's like everybody knew that I was going to go off and try and do something kind of wild. Right. That was always a given with with me. And it was I've always been just a crazy hustler in that way. I've always put myself out there and and tried to go after things. My biggest thing that I've given, and I'm sure this will go in the end advice is that you don't know until you ask. Now, there's a level of asking, but you you have to put ideas into the universe. And I know it's a secret, but you really do have to put stuff out there because a lot of times people just aren't thinking about it. I've literally pitch myself for most of the biggest things I've ever got in my entire career. I've told people you don't have you thought about having me for this? That the other thing and then they like somebody, they just sit with it and it percolates in their brain and they come back to you and they're like, huh? I never thought you'd be like, that's perfect. Yeah, we could be great. You know, that's when, like I would say, 80 percent of my success has been me just putting stuff out there to people because they're just not. People just aren't really thinking about you right now.

[00:35:04] I think that that's true for at least 90 percent of the people I've spoken with that have really not just broken in, but made tracks in their industry. So I think that that's absolutely true. I'm wondering how becoming an influencer and Assoli has kind of played into the influence. Are things kind of organic?

[00:35:21] I feel like, you know, once you become enough of that figure, that's influence that you're at. You're at these massive attended events. It seems natural that people would want you to kind of serve as their ambassador.

[00:35:32] Yeah. Can you speak more to that?

[00:35:35] It's that's been an interesting development because each each media, each platform is so different. So when you have huge success, like I had really big success on MySpace because it was so music oriented. It was actually harder for me to transition it to Instagram. You know, Instagram with this whole new world. And it was about these Flatley photos. And it was a totally different kind of world. So, you know, that took me some time to kind of figure out what how do I connect the dots here? This is now like I'm DJing with then, you know, OK, it's about me taking a photo of. I immediately realized I wanted to capture what I was doing versus making content just for Instagram. Now I do a little of both just to keep up with it, especially during obviously we're in a quarantine.

[00:36:18] So I'm really spending a lot of time creating content. But, you know, a lot of influencers are creating content for Instagram. I was kind of creating content around what I was already doing and trying to make it beautiful to look at and all the things. So, yeah, that that's been it's unfortunately the only part that's hard about it is that there's so much pressure to have your social media kind of be so grand and grandiose and amazing. People are getting gigs on some levels based off that. And, you know, that can be can be challenging. You have to keep up with it even when you're exhausted with it. You're just like, listen, I'm a great DJ, just hired me for my skills or whatever it is. You know, there's such a tie in now and the two are not separate. You have to, like, put so much work into all of the elements. I find that tough.

[00:37:05] It is. I mean, in the advent of the micro influencer being at the nexus of those crossroads, I will say that the word around the kids in Silicon Valley and know and Gen Y and Gen I following up on their heels, is that the kind of polished Cardassian instant moment that was so exhausting for everybody to keep up with is like out.

[00:37:26] It's all about the reality non filter photo, like the real real, which should lessen up on some of it. And also, I don't like what it did for public perception of those generations coming up. It was just as bad as the fashion magazines that had, you know, an anorexic little white girls my whole life. So I don't 100 percent agree there.

[00:37:46] You know, I had an intern that was a lot younger than me. And, you know, you would hear not just from Harvard, just there was this expectation that they had to go from zero to a hundred, that they should be Kylie and Gucci shoes. They should be wearing Gucci shoes when it was complete. They're living at home. It's completely unaffordable or whatever the situation is. You know, there was there was this expectation and not at a fault of theirs. There was this expectation that I have to get these things to match up to what's happening on online. And I felt like that pressure, like I never even was thinking about hoochie shoes, you know, when I was 19, you know, but there was this pressure to kind of like go from zero to a hundred. Career wise, fame wise, appearance wise, everything that pressure, especially as a mom of a daughter, you know, is is just is disturbing. And I try to keep my feet as authentic as. But, you know, it's even for me, it's challenging at times, you know?

[00:38:39] Yeah. I'd like to see a fall of it. It's also just transparency. It's not bringing us closer as humanity. To have a whole bunch of you know, I have plenty of beLuvd friends and colleagues and family members that put up hyper edited photos of reality that I'm like, girl, that's not you.

[00:38:54] I know. It's so it's fine.

[00:38:58] It's it's neither here nor there. I think it's just part of Americana iconography that's now headed in our rear view.

[00:39:03] Thank goodness. I want to turn towards your new digital media strategizing moment. You kind of dropped on me right before we started this, that that came into your life recently. And I'm like, oh, hot tip scoop. So let's climb into whatever you can tell us about that.

[00:39:17] So I I've done some consulting in the back end with clients on their social media. What's happened is because I'm running my own business and I haven't been with an agency, I've had to get up with the program all the time, understanding social media, understanding how to properly, like, manage my feed, went to post social calendars, getting verified on all the different elements of making your social media really fabulous. I've had to kind of understand for myself and what's happened between that and then all the jobs I've done over 12 years with all these major brands, I realized I have relationships so I could write to somebody at Twitter. And you're back in half an hour because of my relationship with them or somebody at Victoria's Secret or Chanel or Maybelline or whatnot. And so I said to myself, wow, you know, this massive Rolodex, I've all these personal relationships that have grown and built. And I said, you know, it's great for me at all, but that might be useful for one gig here and there, whatever I said. What if I took those relationships and found a way to monetize that for myself and also help other people connect and be the connector? And so so a friend of mine who is a big Hollywood publicist, Casey Kitchen, she reps a lot of she actually reps one of our good friends and actor Peter Falcinelli, who was in Twilight. Nurse Jackie and all these great greats, content and great movies and film. He kind of connected us. And then me and her just grew mutual respect. Long before this pandemic hit, we were talking about me helping her clients that she does traditional publicity for. She's doing all the, you know, Daily Mail or People magazine or, you know, the all the red carpet, all that stuff and all the big high end editorials. It was one of those things where she said, you know, why don't we kind of collaborate and help these people with their digital media strategy? A lot of her clients, as you know, as fitting and so and more of a freelance fashion. I have come on board officially her PR agency, she went solo was called Mark PR. It's based out of here in Hollywood. And I've come on board and more of a freelance aspect, but come on board as her digital media strategy director. And I am already I don't know if I can name the clients yet, but I'm working with some very, very top, high and verified clients helping them. I call it like the Ray Donovan of their social media. I'm like a fixer. I kind of come in and I help them. I feel all the things that maybe they're doing right.

[00:41:36] Somebody these people, they have amazing talent, amazing concept, but they don't necessarily know how to apply it to the platform that is Instagram, where that is Pinterest or that is Twitter. And I could put them in there and fix it up for them and help them understand how to better themselves. So it's a very good company.

[00:41:51] I mean, it sounds like there's you know, the clientele is similar to who it's been before. Just more specifics, the Ray Donovan social. So I like epic. I Luv it. That's fantastic. Well, Lindsey, we're running out of time.

[00:42:06] And I want to turn towards quickly a conversation that I've been having with everyone given, as you've mentioned earlier, the current climate of that covered 19 pandemic. And it's kind of allowed everyone to reassess. Even people who have like this virtual enterprise, you have a huge, prolific career based, a large part in this kind of performance oriented things. I know it must have had an impact on you, but I'm wondering if you've had a conversation with time for a conversation with yourself and moving forward as to how you might alter or start to edit what your life's work will be in the future based on what we're doing. Or are you kind of waiting until there's a return to normal and a vaccine and then going back out?

[00:42:45] So this has been such an amazingly interesting experience for me. Very challenging. Being a parent to a toddler during this quarantine is really hard because me and my husband, he has a job and I've kind of taken on this new job, plus all my other stuff that's still kind of existing. So we're bouncing back child care all day long and making sure that she gets the best of the best because we want her to still thrive during, you know, being a little bit more confined. So that's created a massive challenge that and the house and the cooking and all of it. However, like I said, I'm like always five steps ahead and I'm such a Hossler. So of course, I decide to take it on myself to really move forward. These were things, though, that I talked about doing for a while. And this kind of like gave me the push to take that rip the band. Off. And actually, it's I've been, I would say, kind of thriving in that way that I rip the Band-Aid off and I drove straight headfirst into all these new ventures that I've wanted to take on this digital media strategy. I've been studying more about why, and I just Luv wine. And I think there's something interesting there. Wine and music. They go well together. So, you know, there could be some interesting work there. And I'm I've always been the kind of person who I talk about stuff. But I also my husband says you need to pat yourself on the back because there's a lot of people say they want to be a star my age. But you actually signed up for the class and showed up and you took the test and you did it. And for me, it's kind of like that. I try and do that with the things on the most serious about. I get a lot of ideas, but what I'm actually really series on something I put in the work. And during this time I've taken every five minutes I've had to myself when my baby's napping or late at night after she goes to sleep and I sit there trying to, you know, get work done for my clients, for digital media strategy, because D.J. right now in the way we know it is on hold and it's like it's like a bike.

[00:44:37] You know, I can DJ.

[00:44:39] I can DJ any day till I'm 90 if people want me to. You never stop learning how to do a musical instrument or talent or not. Obviously, you have to refresh yourself. But, you know, so why not spend this time where I'm not being requested to DJ to really get the other stuff going and eventually kind of open up to everything again?

[00:44:59] That's awesome. And I want to wrap up with asking you when I ask all of my guests for this series, and it's me, mainly if someone walked up to you tomorrow maintaining a safe social distance and said it's a woman or female identified, non binary individual, pretty much anyone other than a straight man and said, listen, I'm getting ready to get into you.

[00:45:21] I think I'm just gonna take the plunge. I want to get into DJing. I've been in the music industry for a long time. I've kind of come at it from the business background. I think I just want to do this. I'm going to take the leap. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that person, knowing what you know now?

[00:45:35] OK, number one, I would say don't overthink it. Just do. I think the big thing that holds a lot of people back is I mean, everybody knows this, but somebody you really have to say a lot. I think fear holds people back from trying things. They say when you look at like bloggers, for example, the biggest tendency for bloggers to start a blog and never finish. You have to keep going. You can't just start it and then just fall off because you're not seeing, like, you know, the overnight success. If you really care about it and you really Luv it, even if it's not your full time job, even if it's just something you do for your friends at a barbecue in the beginning, don't give up. Like, if that's something you really want, then just keep going and understand that each of those little things is a success in themselves. You did it. You bought the equipment you're teaching yourself or you're going to was class or whatever it is you played for a bunch of your friends. They liked it. That's enough. That's OK. And and, you know, even if that's as far as you ever take it or as far as it ever goes for you, it's still good to know that you gave it a shot. So that's first and foremost, you got to give it a shot. Secondly, I'd say I am a strong believer if you're gonna do something, do it properly. So whatever that means to you, it may not be the same way I saw DJing with learning with, you know, vinyl and this and that. But if you're gonna do something, give it give it its its purest form. Let yourself really learn what it means to be a DJ.

[00:46:57] Research DJs, watch DJs, listen to music, get get yourself immersed in it and whatever that means to you. It may not be the same to me, but immerse yourself in it and do a proper give it its full go. And then third, I would say don't be afraid to put yourself out there and ask for things you want. There is a proper level to do that. Obviously, if you're not getting the response you want, you have to have some kind of social know how when to pull back and to redirect or to go after something a little bit different or somebody a little different. But don't be scared to put yourself out there. Pete, you're only as good as the ideas that you have. Right. You have to put those ideas out to people and say, hey, I thought about myself in this way. How are you? Do you see it back and let them think about it and sell yourself because you're your own best cheerleader. Nobody's ever going to cheerlead for you the way you are going to, surely for yourself. So do it with a respectful understanding that it won't always get accepted. That's OK. You know, no one to pull back and no one to push.

[00:47:55] Nice. All right. I've got. Don't overthink it and just do it and give it a shot. Number two, if you're going to do it, do it properly, whatever that means to you. But make sure you research it and get it done properly.

[00:48:06] Number three, don't be afraid to ask for what you want. Got to put it out there and make sure you listen to the cues and love those as you're perfect. Very, very. New York. I have to say, it sounds very Pskov. Yeah, I love it.

[00:48:20] Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for giving us your time today. I know you're extremely busy and I appreciate all of your stupendous candor about the music industry and everything that you're doing.

[00:48:28] Thank you so much. And you're such a great leader, too. We love watching your podcast. Thank you for having me. It's a true honor to be on here. Thank you for that.

[00:48:36] Thank you. And for everyone listening, we've been talking with Lindsay Luv. You can find out more about her and all of her services on w w w dot. Lindsay Luv dot com.

[00:48:47] You can find my Instagram. It's just at Lindsay. Luv at Elyon dsa y o u v. And there I am.

[00:48:53] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay in Luv with the world and always bet on yourself. Slaínte.

View Details

Today I speak with Shahira Marei. Shahira is the furthest person from your typical Betty Crocker. In fact, in her past life, she was an aerospace project manager. The Dirty Cookie was born from the desire to turn something small, into something meaningful. It was born from her personal aspiration to change lives.

When she was 10 years old, on vacation in Egypt, she witnessed the devastation of hunger and homelessness first hand. She was shocked that children my age were living on the streets, that they were deprived of basic food and shelter. Shahira begged my father to give them money, and he conceded, but not before engraving the single most important statement she would hear, to date.

“If you really want to help them, give them jobs, not money.”

It was monumental enough for Shahira to decide to build a company. One that she vowed would be centered around the people she employ. Today, you’ll see that aside from a unique and delectable cookie, her business is about personability. From the customization options on their shots to the creative freedom I give to my employees, Shahira has worked to drive home the idea that anything is possible. She's always open to trying new things, and she employs her customers and team to challenge her, as they work together towards a common goal. The Dirty Cookie is more than a dessert haven, it’s a home for those who are searching for themselves and what they love.

www.dirtycookie.com

TRANSCRIPTON *Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with founder of the Dirty Cookie Shahira Marei. Key Points addressed were Shahira's is unlikely background as an aerospace engineer. And her plunge following it into the world of cookies. We also discussed Shahira's crucial pivot into e-commerce in 2018 and how that is playing out in the climate of Covid 19 and the pandemic's effect on her business and its future. Stay tuned for my talk and interview with Shahira.

[00:00:34] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status. For industry, we aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen dot COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, PodBean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:31] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Shahira Marei. She is the founder of the Dirty Cookie. You can find it online. W w w dot. Dirty cookie. Dot com. Welcome Shahira

[00:01:47] Patricia, how you doing?

[00:01:48] Good. I'm excited to kind of unpack what you're doing. We talked off the record prior to this.

[00:01:52] But your Web site video I was researching prior to speaking with you and my entire household lit up over. So we will get into every all the goods that you're providing there and particularly the cookie shop. Prior to doing that, though, for everyone listening. I will read a bio on Shahira. But before that, a quick roadmap of today's podcasts for any new listeners will follow the same trajectory as all of them in the series. We will first look at unpacking Shahira's academic and professional background that brought her to launching Dirty Cookie. Then we'll look at unpacking the dirty cookie. We'll get into the logistics for all of you entrepreneurs and founders out there. The who, what, when, where, why, funding growth, all of those early stage things. And then we'll kind of turn our efforts towards the ethos and the philosophy behind it and some of your as motivations there. We'll also look at some of the current and contemporary issues about Covid 19 and how that has impacted everyone's businesses. And then we'll look at goals and plans that she has for the future, for both herself and her business and how those intertwined sometimes and segregating others were up everything up with advice that she has. For those of you who are looking to get involved, purchase some of her gorgeous products or emulate some of her success. So, as promised, a quick bio before I start peppering her with questions on Shahira, Shahira is the furthest person from your typical Betty Crocker. In fact, in her past life, she was an aerospace project manager. The dirty cookie was born from the desire to turn something small into something meaningful. It was born from her personal aspiration to change lives. One year it was 10 years old on a vacation in Egypt. She witnessed the devastation of hunger and homelessness firsthand. She was shocked that children her age were living on the streets, that they were deprived of basic food and shelter. She begged her father to give them money, and he conceded, but not before engraving the single most important statement she would hear to date. If you really want to help them, give them jobs, not money. It was a monumental enough for her to decide to build a company, one that she vowed would be centered around the people that she employs. Today, you'll see that aside from the unique and delectable cookies, her business is about personality from the customization options on their shots to creative freedom that she gives her employees. She has a work group to drive home the idea that anything is possible. She's always open to trying new things, and she employs her customers and team to challenge her as they work together towards a common goal. The dirty cookie is more than a dessert heaven. It's a home for those who are searching for themselves and what they love. Again, you can locate it at dirty cookie dot com.

[00:04:35] And so she heard before we get into unpacking it, which I am super excited to do. I'm hoping you can draw for everyone listening your background of academic and professional life prior to launching the dirty cookie.

[00:04:48] Yeah, so I went to coffee for 10 years in California for my undergrad. I majored in business marketing and then I got my MBA in management while I was working full time at Boeing.

[00:05:03] I was a aerospace project manager for about six years at the Boeing Company. That's my I guess.

[00:05:13] So what is the connection? Draw me the annexation.

[00:05:16] How did it go from Project Interna, an aerospace engineer at Boeing, to launching a cookie company when you're not Betty Crocker?

[00:05:26] Yeah, so I'm definitely not a baker. Do not put me in the kitchen.

[00:05:32] I, I like I said, since I was really young.

[00:05:36] That was in engraved in my mind that I was gonna be an entrepreneur. You know, my father told me, like, if you really want to help people, you're gonna have to give them jobs. And the way to do that is employer, not an employee. So I had that really early on because he was an entrepreneur. He was a retired entrepreneur. So with that being ingrained in my mind, when I had my daughter at twenty twenty six sorry, I started Boeing at twenty three, I had my daughter at twenty six.

[00:06:07] I went to the Slainte panic mode. I was like, OK, I have this awesome corporate job, I have a kid now but like whereas my business. Like how am I going to help people and give people jobs. So that's when I went into this on maternity leave, got five months of maternity leave, just trying to figure out how I'm going to start a business. That's all I did for five months. And I manifested it and I was like, it's coming this year. It's happening. So. Within being backup Boeing within like three weeks, I had met someone who introduced me to a landlord of my future storefront. And I signed a four five year lease to the store. A big jump. Yeah. I had no idea what I was going to do. But I use my experience at Boeing and my friends there to help me design a mold. You get into cookie shop shape. So we got on the mall and I picked a cookie because I wanted something unique and different. And I have the biggest sweet tooth in the world. Like, I just love dessert. I eat dessert first before ordering my meal. That's just who I am. I knew it was going to be in the dessert field. So, yeah, I signed my five year lease and then just kind of work backwards from there, figuring out what I'm going to put in there and what your normal story would like a whole business plan. And here's what we're going to go do.

[00:07:24] No, it sounds like you didn't lack bravery at all because it hit a hit. There is like a lot of empty space in between these sentences, and that's cool. You know, that's kind of what you need. They say in the beginning you have to be, like, brave enough to or short sighted enough to take the leap and then have enough energy to fulfill it. Once you're terrified. So as an entrepreneur, I'm wondering, you love cookies. That's what started you off there. You have. So if you for everyone listening, like getting into unpacking the dirty cookie, because surety kind of drops that little crumb, pun intended, if you will, about the mold she has. So Shira has this cookie shot and it's essentially like it looks like I want to say like a shot glass, a very tiny tumbler that's based out of a cookie. And it looks like it's it's lined with chocolate. And then the video, as you and anyone who sees when you hit her website, is milk being poured inside of it, which is simply, you know, ingenious. I think it's a it's a very clever take. Cookies have had a revitalization. Right. I'm old. I'm forty three. Back in the day, there was Mrs. Fields in the mall, and that was kind of it, you know, and then they went silent for a while. And then then there was this rebirth along with cupcakes, their sister. And I feel like people just kind of started making them again. They didn't start re engineering them. And that is what you've done. And it's clever and it's whimsical and it's cool and it's fun. And that's what dessert usually is. I'm wondering, what was the impetus behind it? Like, how did you come up with the cookie shot?

[00:08:53] Well, I actually was inspired.

[00:08:56] I signed this five year lease and I'm looking at my future store front and I'm like on Pinterest scrolling through like, OK, I have to find something in the dessert world to put in here.

[00:09:06] And I saw this lady molding cookie dough on bowls, you know, like you're trying to pull out of cookie dough. And I'm like, oh, I'm like the biggest, like milk and cookie dough birth in the world. I could put the milk and cookies together as one. And that's when I called my engineer at Boeing. I'm like, hey, help me make this mold. I want to do a cookie cutter basically and fill it with milk. And he's like, sure, no problem.

[00:09:29] We went to his house and, you know, designed it, 3D printed it. And then my best friend from high school had talked to him like ten years. She was one of the best bakers in the country like she is. She went to the top culinary school and pastry chef. You name it. So I went to her with the more than I'm like, hey, can you, like, develop these recipes for me? Because this is what I really want to do. And I signed this five year lease. Yeah. She started coming up with the recipes.

[00:09:54] She was on board for a while and then she got really busy with her own work and just handed me over all our recipes and the whole team of bakers. And then I started learning how to bake. So within two years, I became a baking expert.

[00:10:10] You were broken. You have to become Betty Crocker. Fantastic. And so can you unpack let's get into the logistics for all of our nerdy entrepreneurs out there and founders alike. And first of all, let's talk about when it was founded. You said did you have co-founders? Did you take any funding? And is it brick and mortar or is it solely online?

[00:10:34] Yes. So it was founded in 2015. July 30, 1st, 2015 is when I open the storefront. And I actually started it with my best friend from Boeing. And she ended up leaving after a year because of the entrepreneurship. Life was very challenging.

[00:10:54] No, just some people have this idea of wanting to start a business. But then when you really get into it and you see the challenges, she's like, no, you know what? This is your dream. Go for it on your own.

[00:11:06] So she she left about a year into the business. And then we had the store for four years. I had the store for four years. I closed it in December twenty when I just felt like I didn't want to do this anymore. I didn't want I saw my company as bigger than this little tiny store in a terrible location.

[00:11:28] I wanted to go into, like distribution and I wanted to go into online. So store and decided to shift to e-commerce right away.

[00:11:38] I had no idea how to run an e-commerce business. So that's a whole other story.

[00:11:43] And it changes, right? You're in a very specific thing. It's not a closing a clothing boutique and switching to online, which has its own unique challenges.

[00:11:50] But you're in baked shipping, baked goods or shipping any kind of edible. It's a very different conversation with even the process and what you're making.

[00:12:01] And I think I didn't realize at that time, you know, like Facebook as an Instagram ads are kind of like a pay to play game.

[00:12:07] And we don't have extra money to play with all the big boys online. So it was we and we went from like three or four different ad agencies, couldn't find the right person to help us. So that I think we lost a lot of money online, just trying to understand how online, you know, e-commerce business works. But I'm glad we did all of that homework because that's what's really helping us right now after. Right. And this is really we have all that data from Facebook ads back from twenty nineteen. Early on when we played around with it. And now we're really on the right person to help us really grow that and use it to our benefit.

[00:12:44] So, yeah, it's auspicious. It's crazy. The timing, given that, you know, it seems like you were kind of this flagship perhaps for different reasons, but switching to e-commerce and having that be your soul moment. I'm curious, when you went, did you take a break at all from closing your brick and mortar in 2018? Was there any kind of a break or did you go straight over to your e-commerce, straight over into e-commerce?

[00:13:07] And then we still had catering like a huge part of our business was catering.

[00:13:11] We did weddings, mitzvahs, corporate events work with like clients like Facebook and Netflix. So we had a ton of catering. I just wanted to grow and have an online presence like a big one.

[00:13:24] Did you take any original funding when you founded the brick and mortar?

[00:13:27] No. That was like fifty thousand from my best friend. Maxed out all my credit cards, pulled my four one kay bootstrapped.

[00:13:37] Yeah. That's old school. Excellent. Okay. So that which is cool too because you retained a lot of autonomy and authority was that right. No investors, fewer voices, which is also kind of draws into. It's interesting the voices that you did kind of want to bring in and listen to within the ethos, behind the philosophy behind you, people who are working with it and things like that. Can you kind of speak to the open creative process that you and your crew have when you're developing products? And also, what kind of products do you offer right now?

[00:14:09] So I do, too. Just doing a little pivot with covered. We just started we just launched our decorating kits like DIY.

[00:14:19] You get a set of cookie shops, you fill them with chocolate, you get them and sprinkles and then decorate them with characters. Like we're really big on the customization part of our quick shots. We brand them for, you know, birthdays, events. So now you can put like a little happy birthday characters and birthday presents and balloons on them, their fondant characters or royal icing characters. So you can just eat them. They're basically sugar. So they're really good and fun activities. I was inspired to do this because primarily I was at home now with my daughter and she's six and I'm just like trying. She's almost six. I'm trying to keep her entertained all the time. We did brownies, we cook, we've done everything, you name it coloring. And I'm just like, OK, how about you just take some cookie shots and decorate them for me? And she love her and her friends, like our neighbors. They were playing with it and they had a blast. So that's what you know.

[00:15:10] So it's a delicious craft that they can do counts as art, exact coloring craft dessert. It's covering bases. I love that. Do you have you have you had people reach out? I feel like you're inches away from some kind of a collaboration or someone saying, like, here's what I want you to mold next. You know, I think that you've, like, hit the tip of an ice. Here. Have you had anyone reach out and try to collaborate? Are you interested in those kind of forward or future motions or are you going to, like, hold tight to where you're at?

[00:15:41] You know, I love collaborations. I love collaborating with other companies. I did one previously. I did a bunch previously.

[00:15:49] I love love. I think the future partnerships and collaboration with brands. I love supporting women owned companies. So I do look to my female entrepreneurs and say, hey, how can we, you know, collaborate and support each other? So I tend to do that. I have a giveaway with a donut company this Friday. I have another one next week with just giving out our products. And then also trying to infuse two brands together, whether it's a flavor or a unique idea.

[00:16:21] So nice. I love that. Well, so looking. We've spoken a little bit about how you you've changed your product a little bit, given the recent Kofod situation to this, you know, the social engineering aspect of what kids should be crafting with this their home.

[00:16:36] And you also have there been other things, other ways that I'm curious with people who had products, you know, there was an onus, if you will, of a responsibility to communicate in some degree as to how Colvard was affecting you or how you wanted to communicate to your audience and your customers that it was affecting them. How did you personally deal with that? Was there anything that you communicated with your clients or customers as it hit and moving forward? Has it changed anything about outside of this new endeavor with the decorating kits? Has it changed anything else?

[00:17:11] Yeah. Excellent question.

[00:17:13] So when I first got the news of social distancing, I think that was like a I had all my clients cancel all our events. We had like 30 events scheduled out for the last few months. So it felt like overnight all my events were canceled that were on the calendar. And then we had just been working so hard and getting until all these really big hotels like Four Seasons and Marea and Cosmopolitan Vegas. And we just you know, we were starting to really pick up with hospitality. The food and beverage structures were going crazy with our products. You know, like trying incorporate it into their events and the weddings and the parties and some of these major hotels. So things were like getting really exciting. And then they also just canceled like overnight, obviously. So I think that week was really, really difficult for me. I I walked in, I remember March 13th, Friday the 13th. I walked into my production facility like you couldn't stop crying and told all my team members, I'm just going to have to let them go right now. I can't I don't know what's on the books for us. I don't have any business. And I got scared, like I mean, to be honest, I got super scared.

[00:18:21] And I just said, I'm so sorry. I'm going to let you guys know if I get any business and bring you back immediately. But right now, I just have to let everybody go.

[00:18:29] And it's a sad day. I cried a lot and cried with my team and it took about a week off and didn't even think about work. It just that a lot of meditation and a lot of praying and just tried to kind of like say, OK, what can't how can we, you know, come out of this and come out of it stronger? Because I'm a very positive person. I'd like to believe, like everything happens for a reason and there's always good and everything. So after that week, I call it my week of mourning, I got the idea for the decorating kits. Actually, during my meditation. So it was Easter, like our cut off for Easter was Monday. I launched the kits on Friday. And within those 48 hours, we sold like 400 Easter cookie kits. Wow. This leg. Oh, my God. This is my direction. This is what I've been praying for the whole week. And this is what we're gonna do. So I brought my team back. I brought four, you know, four people back. And they've just been working on the kids in the kitchen right now. So nice.

[00:19:33] Great. I mean, what a great success with a quick turnaround from, you know, and a moment of pause and reflection. I don't know of anyone who hasn't taken time to reflect.

[00:19:43] And. And it really has pivoted. It's a lot of people have changed. And it seems like there's been a great deal of it that was good, you know. And at least there's that coming from such a tragedy as a pandemic. I'm curious. Moving forward, particularly because you have this recent kind of pivot growth, change, you know, success on your heels. What are your plans for the future? Have you looked. Have you gone back to the board and said, let's look at the next one to three years? Must have changed from what there was before.

[00:20:14] Oh, 100 percent. Definitely, definitely changed. I think we're going in the more DIY direction. The decorating kits have inspired me actually for years like her since I started.

[00:20:28] People have been asking me to buy our molds. Right. And I was always. There's no way I'm ever going to sell my Mon's, but I was like, no. This could be an opportunity to carry a smaller version of my molds.

[00:20:42] A six piece kit.

[00:20:44] Make it at home yourself. With our proprietary cookie mix and all the decorating character, stuff like this one big awesome activity box, you know, with the molds that cookie makes and the decorating stuff. So that's kind of where I'm going. And this could be sold in retail stores. You know, Target, Bed, Bath and Beyond, wherever.

[00:21:05] And I don't have to deal with what I deal with right now, which is a lot of shelf life issues for a big good a major distribution because of the fact that we have a short shelf life. And I'm not really open to putting a kind of preservatives in my product. So I'm like, oh, this could be the perfect solution. You know why people make it themselves and then we can get into a ton of distribution. So. Right. Kind of what I'm working on now.

[00:21:32] That's exciting. Yeah. And it changes. It's interesting. You know, I always find every time I've gone back on something I've said, I will never do that. It's always for a good reason. You know, it's always a happy end. It's not you know, I am selling my hair limus Arab style. It's more like, oh, but it worked out well for me to go back on what I said I thought I didn't want to do. And it's adorable to kind of see those early perceptions of, you know, just, hey, that brings us all the same. Like, I would never. And then being like, wait, this could work out.

[00:21:59] Well, you know, there's everything. And this is like the perfect time to roll this, especially because there is a need for. I've been if I show you how many e-mails and the M's on Instagram asking worldwide, Brazil and Europe, you name it, asking for our molds, every day we get messages about it.

[00:22:18] So I'm like, you know what? This is where we should focus on a little bit now.

[00:22:22] Yeah, absolutely. Well, good on you for being open to it. You know, part of life is just staying open, right? Exactly. Well, we're at the point. Well, first, I actually wanted to ask you I forgot and neglected my other community, but I myself am vegan and gluten free joy. And I know people like what? No. And I'm like, no, I still eat baked goods. I'm still allowed. I still get in there. And and there's a you offer some Vegan. Are you used to some vegan and gluten free? Will you stay along with that characteristic? And did you see an increase in that market over the past year?

[00:22:58] Definitely. We have double chocolate being gluten free right now on our site. We just we had a ton more being gluten free products.

[00:23:07] But just because with the limited stuff right now, we've decided to just get one item that's being equal and free and focus, just trying to streamline the process a little bit more. But my sisters, Vegan, and she told me when I first started, just like you are not launching a store without a Vegan product. So and my other sister, Bree, and I needed to satisfy both of them with one cookie. So that's kind of how that Vegan gluten free cookie shop was born.

[00:23:33] Wonderful. Well done. Two sisters and right mind. That's awesome. I love that they made it about them. That's fantastic. I know. And you listened. It's as you said, the three of you are well suited. I'm wondering. So we've gone to the place, whereas my kind of my favorite part of the podcast and and I'm known for asking this, but I'm curious if you were in a public space, a socially, properly distanced from person who came up to you tomorrow, and it is a woman or a female identified or non binary individual, anyone other than a man for purposes of this podcast endeavor and who said, listen, I'm I've got this history in, you know, some science based areas in business administration. I'm doing quite well. But I've always wanted this is security and intrigue and expression of having my own business. I'm going to launch when I find a place. And that's about all I know. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that person, knowing what you know now?

[00:24:32] Number one, I wish I would have talked to someone in the industry before launching my store and didn't think I knew at all, but I didn't know that there were people willing to help.

[00:24:45] You know? I think that was a big oversight on my part.

[00:24:50] So I'll go talk to people who are doing it first and get their lessons learned and get their feedback, because when I learn that later on when I it's just helped me so much not make further mistakes or limit them. You know, Biden is open to receiving from the experts. Having a mentor is huge.

[00:25:12] I have like four different mentors in four different areas where I utilize all of them.

[00:25:17] So getting a mentor is really, I think, aligned with that. The second thing would be.

[00:25:26] Don't rush into it. I was very. I didn't want to take my time. You know, I, like, totally rushed into everything. I didn't think twice because I was so eager.

[00:25:37] I was the type like I would just jump. And because of this burning desire I've had for, like, 15 years of just swarming, I.

[00:25:47] I mean, I'm glad it happened because I'm the type that, you know, I would have I needed to get my feet wet to learn, but it cost me a lot of money. A lot of mistakes. So if you can hold onto that desire a little bit and just get the right help along the way, that would be really great.

[00:26:06] And networking, I think networking. I lived in a bubble for the first two years. Business like I don't even like client networking meant just building relationships. You know, I, I was so focused on making a business like successful that I didn't get out to talk to anybody doing anything great. Didn't have a system.

[00:26:25] But when I met these group of amazing entrepreneurs, I just it was just like magic happened between us. So that support system, whether it's entrepreneurs or family. But I like to tend to hang out with more entrepreneurs because they understand choose whether it's payroll or rent or whatever. I convince that and not my family. They're like, OK, we I want to hear another word about your business.

[00:26:49] So you have to be around people who get it for sure. Yeah. And they're scrappy. Other entrepreneurs are going to come up with that like Yanqui know how. Had those exciting like dictate moments.

[00:26:59] OK, so I've got to talk to someone in the industry and there are people that are happy to advise and mentor as you get started. Don't rush into it, preserve your passion, but get some information first. And number three, network, find out people. You're awesome. You're trying. You drive. There you go. I love those three pieces. And I think they're so true. It's a you know, you come across axiomatic like tourism. It's just like that works for every industry. Does it matter what business you're in? Well, thank you. Sure. I appreciate your time today. We're out of time. But I wanted to say I really appreciate your story. I loved hearing all about it. And I'm encouraging everyone to get online and check out your stuff. Thank you, Patricia.

[00:27:41] I had a blast. Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we have been speaking once again with show here, Marietje, as she's the founder of The Dirty Cookie.

[00:27:49] You can find out more online. W w w dot. Dirty cookie, dot com.

[00:27:54] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay in love with the world and always bet on yourself.

View Details

Today I speak with Annie Scranton. Annie is President & Founder of Pace PR. She has 8+ years experience as a TV producer at major networks including CNN, Fox News, CNBC, MSNBC & ABC, where she booked guest appearances for popular shows like Good Morning America. For the past decade, Annie has been leveraging this experience and expertise to grow her own agency, Pace PR, where she focuses on getting her clients regular TV and media coverage to build their brands.

Personal LinkedIn | Personal Twitter | Company Twitter | Company Facebook | Company Instagram

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with founder and president of Pace PR, Annie Scranton. Key points addressed were Annie's tenure in major news network industries and how this launched and propelled her now decade old PR firm. We also spoke about the importance of relationship maintenance and client education throughout the shifting landscape of the global climate. Stay tuned for my talk with Annie Scranton.

[00:00:31] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen dot COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, PodBean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:28] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Annie Scranton. She's the founder and president of Paice P r.

[00:01:36] You can find it online at W W W Dot Pace Public Relations dot com. Welcome annie.

[00:01:42] Thank you. Thanks for having me. Definitely. I'm excited to climb in to what you're doing. Your company has a lot of unique characteristics that I can't wait to unpack with you and for everyone listening.

[00:01:53] I will read a brief bio on annie to give you a preview. However, prior to that, here's a roadmap for today's podcast that you can follow along in its trajectory. We'll first look at Annie's academic and professional background and history to kind of garner a sense of her platform. And then we'll turn our efforts towards unpacking Pace PR and some of its logistics. The Who, What, when, where, why of founder ship the growth since then. And then we'll look at unpacking the ethos and the full philosophy behind the endeavor of the company. And then we'll look towards Miach Industries and other areas that pays PR might be servicing. Then we'll look at goals that Annie and Pace PR separately or together have for the next one to three years. Those are changing rapidly in today's landscape. We'll wrap everything up with advice that you may have for those of you who are looking to work with her, get involved on some of her levels or emulate some of her success. As promised, a brief bio. Any Scranton is president and founder of Pace PR. She has eight plus years experience as a TV producer at major networks including CNN, Fox News, CNBC, MSNBC and ABC, where she booked guest appearances for popular shows like Good Morning America for the past decade. And he has been leveraging this experience and expertize to grow her own agency, Pace PR, where she focuses on getting her clients regular TV and media coverage to build their brands. So any I love that because it's very succinct. It feels very much so. Like you indeed own a PR firm. It's like the exact tincture of the axiomatic truth of your bio is like right there. But before we get into space PR, which I have a litany of questions for, I want to ask you to describe for us what you find to be the pertinent points about your academic and professional history that led you to the development of Paice PR.

[00:03:48] Well, I started undergrad when I went to Smith College. And so I studied English there as this small liberal arts school. There wasn't a journalism or a PR major which they do offer at a lot of universities now. But back then, I don't think it was as prevalent and it wouldn't have been an option anyway because it was a liberal arts school. So I think that really just started the foundation for me with critical thinking, my writing skills and communication. When I was there my senior year, I was the editor in chief of the SOFYAN, the college newspaper. So that kind of got my first taste of sort of, you know, the journalism world. And along the way, when I was in college, I had different internships at Condé Nast and I w ABC in New York. So I pretty much knew from early on I wanted to be in the media, I should say, even before that, when I was a little girl, my parents and I would always watch Katie Couric every morning on the Today Show. And, you know, I was like, I want to be her.

[00:04:55] I want to I want to work on the Today Show.

[00:04:58] So when I left Smith, it took me five separate interviews for five different jobs.

[00:05:06] But I finally got my first job at MSNBC as a production assistant. So that was sort of my launchpad for working in TV news. And then from there, as you read in the bio. I you know, I bopped around to a lot of different networks. I did that for eight years. And then I started my firm at the age of 30. We just celebrated our 10 year anniversary in business.

[00:05:34] I just turned 40 in quarantine, which was interesting. And and then along the way, about two years ago, I finished my masters at NYU. And there I did get my masters in PR, which everyone was like, why did you get your Masters NPR? You run a successful agency. But I did it with the intention in mind of hopefully in the next chapter of my career teaching and actually being able to go to the professorial route and to let people know more about PR or what I do.

[00:06:13] Absolutely. And I think some of the best professors in academia, I come from a long line of stuffy academics and, you know, I returned to it is an incredible retirement plan and my favorite professors were returning from the field.

[00:06:27] You know, we're coming back in from from abroad, if you will. So I think that's an awesome plan. And it's weird that anyone would ever ask you, like, why go back to school? Like, why aren't you my dad?

[00:06:38] To learn to think just to hang out.

[00:06:41] Yeah, it's. Well, as you were saying before, it's such a privilege to be able to learn, you know, and to get that education. So, yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:53] So looking at unpacking it a little bit further, let's get into some of the logistics for all of our little founder, entrepreneurial audience members listening. Let's start off with. It sounds like it was founded around 2010.

[00:07:05] And did you have co-founders? Did you take funding? Was it bootstrapped? How did all of it begin?

[00:07:11] No co-founders. Just me from from then until now, I'm 100 percent owner. No funding. Good.

[00:07:19] The good thing about PR is that it's a service industry, so you don't really need a lot of startup capital. I worked for the first year from my studio apartment where all I needed was my laptop, my phone and Wi-Fi.

[00:07:33] And that was that was. That was my startup. Those were my costs. So. And yeah. And then over the years. No, we haven't had to go to funding router or anything like that.

[00:07:46] So. Yeah. OK. And here's here's where here's the rub.

[00:07:49] So while you don't have funding, Pyar requires a lot of cachet. Right. And this is where the growth of PR firms is always astonishing to me because it's about relationships. It's built into the title is Plenty People Forget. But what you're providing your clients is only as so far as your relationships extend. Otherwise, you're cold calling people to get them more PR. You know, there's this duality that you have. I'm wondering, do you feel like your work with with all of your networks before helped establish your PR, or was that something you independently did after you launched Paice PR as we know it at Cisco?

[00:08:26] No, I mean it absolutely 100 percent. If I hadn't spent those first eight years working at all of so many different networks and building so many relationships with producers and bookers and journalists who many of whom are my friends, you know. And then there would have been zero chance that I would have been as successful. As we are today, because you're absolutely right. You know, as a former producer, I would get in one single day, hundreds of pitch e-mails, hundreds of e-mails from people. Put me on your show. I have something to talk about. Book me. And I deleted ninety nine of 100 every single day because if I didn't know the person, you know, it's just it's too much. There's just too much to keep up with. You can't get your work done. So having relationships is absolutely. I think it's a critical part for any business to be successful because you're only as good as your reputation, you know, and the people who will kind of go to bat for you. But NPR, it's it's even more critical, obviously, because of the, you know, the nature of being facing an external fee saying. But, you know, especially for a broadcast television, which is a big part of what my firm does. It's a very challenging you to get yourself booked on a TV news show if you don't really have an in with the right people.

[00:09:50] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that it appears as such, especially if you if you Google these things, you know, it's not getting published on Huff Post. It's a different beast unto itself is still remains, I think, kind of the unknown and misdefined.

[00:10:03] I think it's due to those old school relationships, which are very similar in Hollywood as well. I'm wondering the growth from the time, you know, you have these early relationships that definitely impacted, I'm assuming, the success for the first year. But did you have a spike at some point over the past decade of growth that you significantly remember? And if so, what do you think it was attributable to?

[00:10:30] There was a period of rapid growth. Yes, there were. It was probably about four or five years into my business where we went from four employees to like twelve employees and about maybe a year, year and a half. So it was just big. Get a big job then. And doubling our revenue. You know, in a three years doubling doubling our revenue. And what was it attributed to? I think it was just I think like in in the early days, you know, it was just me. So it's a little slower to kind of keep it moving and me or to keep it growing, I should say. And I'm a very risk averse person. So it took me a while to hire my first employee. And then it took me even longer to hire my second employee. And kind of so on until I got to there was four of us. And then I. I don't know. Something just clicked where I said to myself that if we were really going to continue to grow, I had to have faith in myself that the new business was going to keep coming and that the clients were going to say and that, you know, I had to just believe that the trajectory was going to keep going because there was no way with the current staff that we could keep up with with the workload.

[00:11:57] So I'm wondering, you you just mentioned that you have, you know, kind of a niche in obviously television, you know, representation and things like that.

[00:12:08] Does that kind of form what profile of client or industry that you work best with over 10 years? You must have at least ranged a small gamut. But do you have a niche that you prefer to pull your clients from?

[00:12:25] Yes and no. I mean, if we're talking cable news, then the best types of clients for me to have are print journalists and political pundits and lawyers. You know, people with past government, you know, or national security expertize so. Or, of course, I'm wealth managers and different financial experts for like the CNBC is and Bloomberg's of the world. So that's a very, like, linear, you know, sort of path. But our firm represents all different types of clients from lifestyle brands and products, you know, all the way to a you know, wealth managers managing a billion assets under management. So it's a very two tech startups, you know, so it's a very wide ranging base of clients. And, you know, it's I I think what makes us really good at what we do is it's a lot easier to get a wealth manager on CNBC or a political pundit on Fox News, but it's a lot harder to get, you know, a tech startup CEO or, you know, somebody with a rising product or brand, a prominent TV placement. And I think that that's that is an area where we excel. It could take a little more time, you know, to achieve. But that's where I think, you know, our connections and relationships with the different producers. But also just really, you know, feeling as though we are an extension of the media. And, you know, with that, watching all the shows, understanding what kind of content they want. You know, I just I say this all the time is just like you want to be on a certain show. You have to, like, watch the show and know what kind of stuff they do every day. So you run and present yourself with the, you know, in the right manner.

[00:14:14] Well, and into that same vein. I'm curious if you.

[00:14:16] I always feel like PR specialists educate their clients a great deal when they're doing a good job, you know, and they're they're kind of honing and refining the client's knowledge of what pieces of them need to be put in, which areas of the market to get the best price possible. But in what you just mentioned, I also wonder, knowing this show and seeing, you know, a natural progression that happens, you ever pitch networks on why they should kind of, you know, there are naturally heading somewhere. Is there an education to the other outlet as well, the news sources?

[00:14:52] Has that ever been or do you just try and fit the holes that they're developing? Well, it's easier to just sort of plug and play with what they're doing. But at the same time, we've certainly pitched ideas for like a recurring segment, you know, a once a week or something like that type of idea. And and we've we've certainly also pitched counterintuitive ideas, but we obviously make that connection, you know, at it to make it seem relevant for their audience. But, you know. Yeah, like if we. Having a good idea is is proper, is having the relationships is the most important part, but having a good ideas is very, very close second. So if you have a good idea and it's kind of interesting and they haven't done it yet. Yeah. Like, we've definitely had success with that in the past.

[00:15:44] Yeah. And that that being said, I kind of want to get into over the past decade that it's been around actually.

[00:15:53] You know, there's been this this behemoth called social media that turned marketing, PR branding, everything kind of inside out twice over again. And it allowed people to become creative in ways that weren't creative. It turned a lot of old ideas on its head and it actually allowed some, I think, of the pillars of non change, you know, to rise within our media structure.

[00:16:17] I'm wondering, can you speak to what was the biggest change regarding social media that you shifted or used creatively in regards to the process of pace PR? Where did you implement strategies that were interesting? Was it just the advent of all of them?

[00:16:35] Well, I mean, yes. I mean, when social media happened, I mean, it was you know, obviously it became sort of life life changing. You know, and kind of all consuming. Four for me. One of the best parts has been able to follow journalists and producers and show hosts on Twitter or Instagram or whatever, because it gives you a really personal look into who they are and what their interests are. And so that's such a critical component, because if you see that an anchor at MSNBC was just tweeting about some story and what their point of view is, and you represent a client who can speak exactly to that same sentiment or has the complete opposite sentiment, then that's a very that's a great in you know, to present that to the producer that you're going that you're reaching out to to make the case for, you know, well, the anchor feels this way. You know, she should really interview my client who will, you know, kind of go one on one with her about, you know, about the topic. So that's definitely been been one of the major ones. But for me as a business owner and being active on LinkedIn has been absolutely the number one besides a CEO, which is exactly social media, but sort of related has been the number one way that we've grown our business in terms of just cold outreach, you know, from percent perspective clients, because I'm very active and I post a lot. And so we've gotten a lot of inbound leads from that.

[00:18:18] So that was leading into my next question, which is new business development.

[00:18:22] Do you feel like it's what percentage of it do you think is is from your own marketing and PR efforts on behalf of yourself or happy good business clients referrals?

[00:18:35] 10 percent. What I do on my own 90 percent referrals and being a beautiful life. That's fantastic. It's yassa. Knock wood. That that it always stays that way. But. I mean, you know, we work hard. We we we pretty much always get results for our clients. You know, when you were talking about, like educating the clients, that's also, I think, like one of the reasons why even if we have an account that doesn't go exactly as well as we had hoped prior before I sent any client, I, I just try to be as honest and forthright and explain the process as as much as I can, because many clients, some have a good understanding of the media, but some have like no idea, you know, what goes into it and what to expect. And then what it's going to do for their business. You know, a lot of people may hear PR and they say we need PR because we're going to get, you know, so many new customers, you know, after we hire this PR agency. And you might. And we hope so. And and maybe but it's also the way that we look at it. It's really about getting these great placements in really well respected publications or TV shows or podcasts. So that way, your brand, your CEO, your company can have an elevated level of credibility, you know, and legitimacy among any others in in the field. So, yeah, you know, I think I think that's why, you know, but I. But I will say that. But being active on social media and making an an investment in FCO has absolutely paid off in terms of getting inbound inquiries.

[00:20:16] Yeah. What happened to a CEO? Everyone stop talking about her. Everyone is used to the buzz word, you know, for about five minutes, five years ago, social media took it away. I'm wondering when you mention the different clients that you work with.

[00:20:33] You know, you spend a lot of industries really quickly. And I'm curious, there's always a tenants of commonality, you know, that you run into. And and I like that unifying factor. I try to talk a lot about unifying factors because diversification is easy. And I'm wondering, over the past, while we don't have to go back 10 years, but we can. What are like the top three misperceptions or issues that most of your clients have regarding PR or what they should or should not be doing when they come to meet with you?

[00:21:08] I think a lot of people think that when they hire a PR firm or a publicist, it's it's they're going to very quickly be on the Today show or be featured in The New York Times or, you know, whatever insert dream media outlet is and end it. And they don't understand that. How I see PR and hiring a firm is that if you try to do your own PR, there's like maybe a one one to five percent chance that you're going to be successful. But like you're you're probably not going to see the level of success, you know, but hiring a PR firm, it's not only about pitching and using the right connections and relationships that we have, but it's also like taking a look at how you present your brand and the messaging that you're using and the the sort of a holistic approach of your of your company and saying, you know, I think that if we go and promote this one singular area of your firm, we're not going to have this success as opposed to us, you know, building it out in a way that's a little more attractive and also not even just attractive to producers. But I find a lot of times when clients come to me because we work with a lot of startups and smaller to midsize companies. It's really hard for them to actually describe what they do, you know, succinctly and in a way that's going to get someone interested, you know, because it's like no one really cares. Like everyone's so busy. There's a pandemic. Like, it's just, you know, there's there's so much noise. And so even though you think what you do is the most important thing ever, and maybe it is like me as a person listening, I want to know what's in it for me, you know, and what am I going to get out of it. And so, you know, the misconception is that, you know, a lot of clients think that we're gonna be able to get in an article in Forbes that's going to be just all about their company. And so we have to explain, no, that's advertising or that's sponsored content. You know, that's not editorial earned media. And so educating them that it's it's also just as valuable to have placements and interviews where you are seen as a thought leader in your industry and maybe you're talking about different trends in this space or, you know, you're weighing in on a current news cycle news story that's related to your field. And and also, can you provide me with happy customers, with people that you've worked with and you've helped them in their business because, you know, any any self respecting journalist is going to say, well, that company sounds great, but can you actually prove it to me? Can you put me in touch with somebody that they've worked with in that they've helped? And, you know, so without all of that sort of understanding and those factors. It's it's pretty much impossible. You know, it's, again, the PR that you're looking for. And so, you know, I said that in like 60 seconds, but it takes a long time to kind of get that in in a person's brain, you know, to really just make them understand everything that goes into it.

[00:24:25] Yeah.

[00:24:25] And with what you just explained, a core tenet of what you, you know, impart or educate your clients with has just ultimately changed due to what you just said. You know, you see, we're all in the middle of a pandemic. And I immediately think of when I think of PR is how many of your clients you need to go back in and say you need to embrace this dialog, you know, to alienate people by not speaking about it. I don't know of one commercial that I've seen and I try very hard not to see them. So I've only seen a few. And they've all incorporated the dialog of some type of of nod or acknowledgment or how it's playing into their customers. And I imagine is it is it like that for you or you? Are you going through and helping your clients are advising them to revamp and include this dialog of the Kovin 19 pandemic?

[00:25:13] Of course. I mean, for literally every single one. I mean, even if there's not a tie in or even if they don't need to address it, you know, like one of our clients is a direct to consumer 24 karat gold jewelry company. There is no there's no, you know, tie in really to the IRS. But we did advise them that when they were getting ready to send out there their newsletter with their latest collection, that it would be beneficial for them to address the pandemic even in just a very short way to their customers and say, we're thinking of you, we're here for you. If, you know, if if you know, just to kind of acknowledge it. Because if you don't, then I think that's where the reputational issue can come into play. But for every single one of our clients. Who stayed on as a client because we definitely lost some clients when this all hit. Like in the travel or luxury or real estate space. But for all of our other clients. You know, yeah. Their businesses changed as much as mine did where it became about that and about how how can we do we have a way to add value to the conversation? Meaning can we help? Is there a way that we can offer assistance in some way, whether that's financial expertize or in remote learning or in psychology or whatever? You know? And, you know, there is not. Then you have to just continue to find the journalists and the media who are not covering the pandemic. And just really be extra super careful that they are still writing about their previous topic and not incorporating the new news cycle.

[00:27:00] Yeah, absolutely. I want to turn now. I do a quick pivot into some of the demographics, and I'm not sure if this is dated because my research comes strictly from your Web site.

[00:27:11] But I got on and it looks like you have a crew of female or female identified individuals working for you. Nary a male or male identified face to be found. And I'm wondering if that statistic is true and if you can speak to whether or not I have to believe that that was a conscious thought at very least. And I was wondering if you can kind of open up that story.

[00:27:33] Sure. So it's so it it it wasn't it wasn't a conscious decision when I first started out. I actually had two different male employees on and they were great like but it was just when it was two people, me and them, you know, so. But then really what happened was once we started growing and then it became, you know, two female employees, three, four and so on and so forth. It just felt like it was a comfortable dynamic in the office. And also PR is a very heavily female dominated field. So, you know, the 80 percent of the resumes I was getting were women, you know, and not and not men. And then and then it just honestly, like, I kind of got to the point where it felt like it might be like weird if we were in, like, one office with nine women and one and one guy. But but now it's become something that's, you know, not not that is more serious and more intentional because now we are a female led company. And, you know, I'm I'm open to hiring men. I mean, I want great talent and great employees. But I think it's I think it's powerful. And I think it's it's been really inspiring to work with other working moms, to work with, you know, other really impressive women and to be in it in a situation where we actually are all, I believe, supportive of one another. And there's just kind of like that understanding, you know, woman to woman.

[00:29:16] Yeah, there's a camaraderie for sure. There's plenty of sociologists that have made their pitches on nothing else. So absolutely.

[00:29:23] I'm wondering, do you have you certified with any of the women and minority certification firms?

[00:29:31] And not only that for you, that question to you, but do you advise any of your clients to go and get certified with? I mean, a few are the WNBA or the WB e WB and see like all of these female and minority certification processes. Do you think it's a good source of PR? A lot of the processes are very lengthy and can be expensive, but there are a lot of companies now, particularly on the West Coast where I am, that are directly hunting these these companies out in order to make an impact.

[00:30:04] So I, I, I actually really pains me to say that I'm not part of any of these organizations because it's Dom and I should be and I have started the W MBT application like five times, and it is very lengthy. And you need a lot a lot of documents that go back a long way. And it's it's just been nothing but lack of time or interns who can help me to do it. So. So no, but it is on my list. It is on my to do list, although it's been there for a long time. I have to say admit. But yes, we do actually bring up those types of organizations to our relevant clients. And it's a common question that clients are asking us because they want to see and are a why from what we're doing and from the media heads that we're getting to them. But a lot of times, by being able to share a media clip in different organizations like that, that's a really impactful way than to build up your client base and to get new Kofman new customers.

[00:31:14] Absolutely. Yeah. And it's it's a new shift. And it's it's always interesting to see. I know that a lot of the companies that I've spoken to, the founders that are involved in them, take it really seriously.

[00:31:25] It's it's one of their greeting cards. You know, it's it's right there on the landing page. It's right there on the business card. And I think it's it used to be seen as kind of a fraternity status, kind of this, like nobody cares unless you've been in it. And then and now it's actually being sought out. I've hung out with a lot of venture capitalists and angel investors, probably too many over the past year. And. But it is this especially female which are largely underrepresented. And it's a part of fulfilling that economics and that environment of female founders turning into female investors in the lifecycle continuing. And there's a lot of talk about these certifications being necessary and important so that, you know, women investors, minority investors can turn around and do and fund firms that are doing it. You know, there's not a shortage of people to invest in. I've seen in the states as much as, you know, finding the right people that represent what you want.

[00:32:19] Now, you're right. And like, I'm going to as soon as we end this, I'm going to like e-mail myself a reminder that I need to actually do this and like, it has to get done. Yeah, you're going to everybody do it.

[00:32:29] You're like, that woman gave me homework. I cannot stand her. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, I think it's interesting and I appreciate your candor on that subject. I'm wondering, everyone's dialog has changed.

[00:32:40] I know that your workload increased with the pandemic, with your clients and things of that nature, even with losing some of them, having everyone had to go back and kind of rebound their message and consider what their message even was anymore.

[00:32:52] How you personally with pace PR, how has your dialog changed, if at all, considering the pandemic? And what do you see your goals for the next one to three years being?

[00:33:07] Well, you know, I think the dialog has become it hasn't changed, but it has become more even more intentional or even more pointed where, you know, we're we're trying to to make an impact and we're trying to work with clients and put out messaging that is going to be helpful and useful. And and and even if it's a a brand or a product or something that isn't directly related to, you know, these big global issues, making sure that we that we do it even more thoughtfully and even more carefully. And and so that way, we're we're always being proud of the work that we're putting forth for our clients and leading them in the best possible direction for their reputation as possible for me in terms of how what my goals have, my goals have changed. I don't I don't know. To be honest with you, because we're still sort of in the middle of all of this. But, you know, I have had to clear both sides of the spectrum of, like, you know, wanting to get back to work so bad full time and wanting to keep growing the business and go, go, go. You know, as far as we can go. And then on the other hand, you know, I'm I'm home now with my daughter, who's almost two. And it's been really nice, you know, on some days, not all days, but on some days it's been really nice. And so I'm not sure I think I think, like, you know, for me, as as a working mom trying to find that balance is, you know, who can who can find the balance like it's impossible, you know, ta ta ta perfected. Even though I always strive to perfected. But I think now. I don't know, I think I think I'm I think that things are shifting for me a little bit. So we'll have to have to see.

[00:35:04] Yeah. Well, and therein is the gift. Right? Just even the reflection and the privilege of being well enough to reflect and things of that nature.

[00:35:13] I'm wondering. So this is my favorite part of this podcast. Series is known for it.

[00:35:17] And so you'll have to indulge some of the joy, venality of the question. I am wondering if you were, you know, walking up within a safe social distance of someone tomorrow and they said, hey, listen, Annie, I need to ask you a couple of questions. I know you through so and so. You're in the PR game. You probably know everyone in Manhattan. So they walk up to you and they say, listen, it's a young female female identified, non binary individual, anyone other than like a standard white male. And they said, listen, I am I'm getting ready to launch into my own PR firm. I've had this great, you know, buffer of almost a decade in news and media and stuff like that. And I'm just looking to hit the ground running. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give the individual knowing what you know now?

[00:36:05] Make sure you have a safety net, a financial safety net, if at all possible, lay the groundwork while you are still gainfully employed. And don't undervalue yourself. You know, I think that getting to a point where I'm really proud of and comfortable with the rates that clients pay for our services has has has taken many years. And so, you know, I think it's maybe even more true for women out there. I don't know.

[00:36:40] Yeah, I hear that a lot. And I've spoken to over 200 over the past two years. And one of the top five things I hear from women who are in much more advanced and seasoned positions as a founder such as yourself.

[00:36:54] The number one thing they say is that life got a lot easier when they charged more and were available less, you know. And that's not some weird, twisted, dynamic of psychology. I think it was that they were saying that they just underwhelmed themselves. I had a lot of stories about people saying the first year and they were like on call 24/7 with their clients. People could text them at 3:00 in the morning. They would respond, Oh, yeah.

[00:37:17] Like, sometimes I would be on my computer like literally 16 hours a day. You know, I mean, little breaks here and there. I mean, is crazy. I mean, I was blessed because I loved it and I still love it. So it didn't feel like so much work. But I do actually think there's a little bit of psychology there because you're if you're not available 24/7, that means that you're respecting yourself and that you're setting boundaries for yourself and making family or whatever else a priority. And I think once you start to carry yourself in and live with that intention, other people pick up on it. And, you know, that's when things get a little easier in some ways. All right. So I have guys.

[00:37:59] So I've got a safety net. Lay the groundwork while you still got your day job, if possible. And don't under underestimate or undervalue yourself.

[00:38:09] That's awesome. Those are fantastic. We're out of time today, Andy, but I want to say thank you. I know you're busy. I've got a little one.

[00:38:15] You've got a massive company and you're sitting in New York, which is, you know, it's it's own hot pocket of issues, as we all have. But I just want to say thank you for your candor and your story and all of your information. I appreciate it. I know my audience does as well.

[00:38:29] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:38:31] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Andy Scranton. She's the founder and president of Paice PR. You can find it online at W W W Dot Pace public relations dot com.

[00:38:43] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay in love with the world and always bet on yourself.

View Details

Today I talk with Jennifer Longmore, Leading Authority on Soul Purpose, and Elite Business Coach to enlightened entrepreneurs, is a sought-after media personality, 3-time best selling author, is world-renowned for her laser-like clarity in seeing into the depths of your soul and bridging your connection to universal consciousness.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with media personality, best selling author and elite business coach Jennifer Longmore. Key points addressed were Jennifer's books regarding her rhetoric and knowledge on identifying and realigning one's to one's purpose professionally, personally and spiritually. We also discussed some of the reflections and thoughts Jennifer's had as she has launched a massive effort to help individuals traverse the Kovik 19 pandemic and begin future visioning again. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jennifer. Long more.

[00:00:38] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen dot COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.

[00:01:38] And today I am sitting down with Jennifer Longmore. She is a media personality, best selling author and elite business coach. You can find out more about her endeavors and all of the work that she's involved in in w w w dot soul journeys dot ca.

[00:01:54] Welcome, Jennifer.

[00:01:56] Thank you. I'm excited to be here. We're going to have a great chat today. We are. I can't wait. I've really climbed through a lot of what you've done, and I'm excited to ask you so many questions regarding your work and your future endeavors.

[00:02:09] For everyone listening, I will read a quick bio on Jennifer. But before I get to that, a roadmap for today's podcast. For those of you are longtime listeners, it will follow the trajectory that we always follow for this series. Namely, we will look at Jennifer's academic background and early professional history leading to right now. Then we'll look at unpacking soul journeys. We'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, funding growth, client base. And then we're get to some of the more specifics of the ethos and the philosophy behind the work that she's doing there. And we'll also address some of the at least a few of the plethora of books that she has written over the past decade. And we'll then turn our efforts towards asking Jennifer about any goals that she may have for her businesses and her her own personage for the next one to three years. That's an area that's changing for a lot of us given the recent Cauvin 19 pandemic. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she has for those of you who are possibly looking to get involved with what she's doing. Ask her for some of her services or maybe emulate some of her success. A quick bio on Jennifer before I pepper her with questions. Jennifer Longmore and leading authority on sole purpose in elite business coach to enlighten entrepreneurs is a sought after media personality. Three time bestselling author is world renowned for her laser like clarity in seeing into the depths of your soul and bridging your connection to universal consciousness. For more than 15 years, she has served clients in permanently shifting the limiting beliefs and patterns that prevent them from being who they really are so that they can live their most abundant, aligned and accelerated soul's journey with over thirty thousand sole purpose sessions, including the Who's Who of actors, professional athletes, CEOs of leading companies and other influential influential luminaries. Jennifer continues to offer these high level sessions to souls who are really committed to shine their light. And again, her website is w w w dot. Soul Journeys Dossier.

[00:04:11] Now, Jennifer, it's this three time bestselling author. But I think I saw five somewhere on another one of your bios lost your beloved author.

[00:04:21] And I love that because I think it somehow it becomes it's more than just a body of work and something that you've you've clearly honed the skill of. But it also becomes very relatable to the way you communicate your information. It's not just this business coach, one on one person to person verbal. It becomes written. And it's a different form of, you know, a pedagogical lens of an instructional lens, which I, I adore. And I kind of get into the minutia of a little bit too much. But before we get to all of that, I was hoping that you could dress like a narrative of your academic background and early professional life prior to starting the soul journeys.

[00:04:59] Yeah, I'd love to. I love that you point that out about the books, because when I did my master's thesis, I just dillydally on that thing like my my professor contacted me and she said, you realize that you've got about six months to write this and hand it in before you have to redo your entire masters. Like, I really it's OK if you don't want to do your thesis, but you're going to have to pick a lane now. Right. Because it just felt so daunting to me having so much material. And it's so funny to me that I've published 10 books. Now, like, that's just because I really thought I was done with writing. After I finished my thesis, I was like, I am never writing another book again. That was, you know, like total birthing process. Here I am.

[00:05:41] So when I was younger, my parents decided that my mom would stay home with me because they would actually was more financially advantageous for them, for her to stay home than go to work and pay a babysitter. So she stayed at home with me and my mom, I think secretly always wanted to be a teacher. So she taught me and I was reading and writing and, you know, basically at a grade five level, by the time I got to kindergarten and I was asked to constantly sit in front of a class and read to the class, which as a shy kid was actually really painful, to sit on a chair above my other peers and read a story to them, like a teacher would read and people would come in and gawk at me and they would bring in people from the school board. And let's look at this. This girl, they wanted to skip me ahead to grade for my mom was like, no, that's not going to happen because she's going to miss all of those social things that she needs. So I was in gifted classes for a long time and I didn't view myself that way. In fact, it was really embarrassing and it made me other. And I really because I was already very spiritual and wew and very intuitive, I already felt like an outsider and I was doing my best to fit in. So every time I got taken out of a class to go to a special class, it just was it was super uncomfortable for me. So I feel like I spent a great chunk of my time in school trying to figure out who people needed me to be so I could fit in because I felt like a really old school. I got along way better with adults and I felt like kids. My own age groups were kind of annoying. It was refreshing to me when I would finally find a kid that could have deep conversations with me. So I ended up in grade 11 having a call up and I went into a class for developmental services and all of these parents asked me to be their private worker for their kids. So these kids had Down's syndrome or autism or, you know, various things. And so I, I got hired by all these parents and I ended up working like forty hours a week doing these one to one contracts after school. And then I got approached by other agencies who want me to come and work in group homes and stuff.

[00:07:50] So then they all wanted me to go and get a developmental service worker diploma at college and my parents had a meltdown there, like, you know, you're going to university.

[00:08:01] You're the first kid in our family that's gonna go to university. That's how it's going to be. But up until then, I always thought I'd be a teacher. And then I ended up going through social work and I specialized in forensic social work and went into forensics for many years investigating crimes against children, which I know you've you've read about my history. Yeah. And so that was an intense job. And fast forward to what's going on in the world right now. I was a crisis worker. I just responded to crises all the time. I got promoted into management positions, director positions, and and then I knew how to lead other leaders through crises. And I never thought I'd repeat that. Right. It's just funny how life has these ideas of throwing things at us. And in hindsight, how our skills for Paris for this. So. So I worked in that for many years. And then I just couldn't my adrenals just couldn't handle that anymore. So I went to work in corporate for two years and did sexual harassment investigations and I ran. Or maybe not. Ironically, that's probably not the right word. But to my surprise, I was shocked that textbook sexual harassment cases were still happening at that time. It was really shocking to me. Yeah. And I know they still happened to this day, but comparatively, the stress that I had in forensics was far different. You know, I maybe got one case every six months of sexual harassment, which was too many, of course. Right. But like from a scale perspective, I was used to investigating hundreds of cases a week of child abuse, too. You know, once every six months. Sexual harassment. That gave me the gift of working a true nine to five. So every night I can or not every night, but most nights I can go to business networking events because I kept feeling that I needed to start my own business. But I thought that everyone was speaking alien. I really didn't understand this language of entrepreneurs. It freaked me out. I. I didn't even know it was a possibility for me. But I knew I needed to get into more of the woo side of things, which is what I do now. And. And so sure enough, I would go at night and I realized, oh, I do have I do have what it takes. And that was a great gift for me to still be getting a paycheck while determining whether I really could do this thing. And so after about two years of working in corporate, I left that. I took the leap and trusted that that would catch me. And it did. And I was busy pretty much right away and became I was referral based and I had a waiting list because all of the same things people were dealing with when I worked in forensics, I was now dealing with them as adults, all of the long term effects of sexual abuse and and gaslighting and, you know, cycles of violence and being parenticide and all the things that were happening that I was seeing. So actually is I'm way more prepared than I realize. And but then I thought, well, I'm gonna go get my masters and I'm going to be able to claim my services under extended health benefits. OK. So I only wanted my masters because I wanted to appease the insurance companies. I was interested. Don't get me wrong, I, I liked academics to a certain degree. But like anything, you know, there's kind of pros and cons, in my opinion and always at academics and. So I went off and did my master's in education because I just needed something, I was already registered with my body, like my associations. So I just needed to have a masters really in anything. But by the time I got my masters, I realized I didn't actually like to work with clients that only wanted to come and do the work when their insurance would cover it. And when their insurance would run out. And sometimes it would be nine months they would instead of just, you know, continually investing in themselves, they only wanted to come if someone else was paying for it. And it's not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that for me, I like to work with people that are constantly moving forward and not finding obstacles to do that. So anyway, so I did my Masters and realized that I didn't need it after all. But still great. Oh, that I did it. And now, 16 years later, here I got that book.

[00:12:10] That was your Everest. Yeah.

[00:12:16] I'm curious, do you believe that the.

[00:12:18] I'm wondering if you, in hindsight, do attribute your immediate success and waiting list and things like that from your you kind of quickly dropped that you had done this business networking and, you know, in nights and weekends when you went corporate. Do you attribute some of the success to that or have you passed any of those pieces out as to why it's so very fluidly took up for you?

[00:12:42] That's a great question.

[00:12:44] I think that job, probably an aspect of that, eliminated some of my learning curve because when we first start a business, there's such a steep learning curve and people will always say, well, I don't know what I'm doing. And I say, well, that's amazing. None of us know what we're doing, which is part of the exciting journey that we get to split test and we get to throw spaghetti against the wall. I'm not saying that that's a long term strategy, but if we go into the energy of on wonder in our first year of business and say, OK, well, I wonder what's going to happen if I join that networking group for a year. And I wonder what's going to happen if I knock on these doors that I don't think we're going to open for me. And I wonder what's going to happen if I take a leap in this way. I kind of call it business yoga. Right. We're really stretching ourselves and kind of developing these muscles and getting more comfortable. But I think that because I really could empathize with people and have a understanding of the psychology of abuse and why they'd be experiencing what they did and people feeling safe enough to come to me and now that I could hold space for them and I wasn't going to make it about me and my discomfort in hearing their story, that I had the actual capacity to hold space for them and let them talk about anything without being judged or without making them feel like they needed to tend to my emotions from like Chris trauma or any of those things that might have happened. They were able to talk about anything. And believe me, I I heard a lot of stuff. I had seen a lot of things. And I still see it. And of course, to this day now, I just know that nothing really surprises me.

[00:14:22] But I I think to the other thing that happened then, which is also happening right now for me in my business in light of the pandemic, is that I didn't focus on the money at all.

[00:14:32] I just focused on. On serving people. And I was so grateful that I got to make my own living.

[00:14:39] I didn't know what I was doing, but I was so grateful that I got to create life on my terms and just help people. And that's all I focused on, was getting myself out there and helping people. And that's what I've been focusing on the last several weeks. And I didn't do it for this reason. But I I've generated a lot of income, unexpectedly, generated a lot of income over these last few months, because my focus really has been on all. My goodness. I've got to get into crisis mode again. I'm going to help people not freeze. And the trauma helped them work through the trauma that was already there before this and then all the trauma buttons that are being pressed through this. And let's get you to the other side. We don't know what the other side's going to look like, but let's find a way to have you feel a semblance of being able to be in the moment or the moment being. So panic and anxiety. Rhythm.

[00:15:29] Yeah. At which it can ebb and flow. I don't think it was just in the beginning. There's a lot of different societal trends with that. And I've been to that end. I want to kind of start unpacking for people.

[00:15:39] And I'm not certain about this current work that you've done because I haven't been able to research any of that. But I do want to start our audience off with them once you approach your Web site. One of the first taglines that I was struck with as a researcher was it's the number one training school for Akashic Records. And I don't know if I'm saying that word right, but I defined I looked up that word in the dictionary and a very general and accepted definition for that is a supposed universal spiric field in which a record of past events is imprinted.

[00:16:13] And that's Akasha.

[00:16:15] So and you and you have this tagline of the number one training school for Akashic Records. So my assumption in looking into it and then going forward with your books is that you're you're kind of engaging this philosophy and this this paradigm in order to help your clients heal on different levels. And indeed, your books envelop everything from spiritual, emotional, financial, you know, in this very they're all interconnected moment. But you kind of pass out each of these things and speak to those through the feminine, you know, energies and things to all the way up to the financial discord and how we have financial DNA and things of that nature within us. And I'm hoping you can break some of it down. I may have just murky at all of it. And I do apologize, but that was kind of my my bird's eye view with all of it. And I wanted to bring that particular term forward because you put it right out there for your audience to hit right when you get to your landing page on your Web site. So I'm hoping you can break some of that down. Pass it out, make it bite sized for people listening and then talk about how you're implementing it.

[00:17:22] Yeah, I love that. And I forgot that was on my Web site because, you know, Web sites change every few years.

[00:17:30] So I sometime I should, you know, go back in and see what's on there because. Yeah, we change all the time and I change my business. I don't just kind of stay in one niche or like have one central offer that I have consistently through the years, although Akashic Records are one of them. I actually follow the pulse of my clients and then say, OK, well, do I feel qualified to offer this? I just have a firm belief that I don't want to offer anything that I don't have a semblance of mastery over. I'm not talking about being a master of or being perfect at.

[00:18:04] But I do feel that my knowledge of certain areas needs to be beyond satisfactory for me to feel good and feel and integrity about, you know, giving people information or holding space for people in a certain way. So, for example, I didn't talk about money until I felt that I'd done enough internal work and done enough outer staff with money to feel like I can guide people. Of course, I'm not a billionaire and I don't pretend to be a billionaire. And a billionaire is probably not going to hire me to help them with their money story. But I can help people that, you know, are still navigating that. And the reason I focused on money was because in doing all the sole purpose work, which is ultimately what I'm doing right, it's all about consciousness, the consciousness of our soul, the consciousness of money, the consciousness of our business. All of these things have an energy or an intelligence to them. And I'm helping people tap into these different areas to live their life with. So many people were saying to me time and time again, I don't know what my purpose is like after eight sessions with me when we keep talking or your purpose. I know there's a question behind the question, which is why are you living your purpose? You know what your purpose is? And people were throwing money, money under the bus all the time. And I say that obviously you don't play by play, but people with money becomes an easy thing to hold us back. And there's a lot of things we don't do in the future because we decide we're already not going to have the money. Well, what I've learned is money is just a neutral energy and it becomes whatever we project onto it based on what we've been taught about money, based on what society tells us, vote money, based on what happens when we have money and how other people respond to us when we don't have money or how they respond to us when we don't have money. There's so much that influences that. And if we can untangle ourselves from all the projections and just see money as a clean source, as a tool that helps fuel our dreams, then we actually have more freedom. Doesn't matter how much money we have, as long as we have peace of mind and freedom around money, that actually is true financial freedom.

[00:20:01] Yeah, and that's interesting. So one of my questions was going to be your diagnostic tool set.

[00:20:07] And I don't know if it's a questionnaire or when you have a new client intake. Let's say one on one, because I know you offer a few different services on your Web site. And I always wonder when someone like you with this this vast array of education and this growing tool kit, if you will, knowledge base, how you correctly ascertain which prognosis and implementation or activities or techniques is appropriate per each client. Do you have a set kind of rule list or intake thing that you do with every client or does it sounds like it varies. You said you follow the pulse of your clients. And so what does that mean in reality, like realistic, tangible terms?

[00:20:55] Well, I'm glad you asked that because I think it is important understand our process. I am very intuitive so I can always tell whether someone is asking me the things that they really want to know. And it's not because they're trying to mislead me. It's just because we have so much wrapped end around even asking. Right. You've been told to be seen and not heard or we get in trouble when we ask questions or we're afraid of looking stupid. There's all kinds of reasons why we don't just directly ask for support or directly ask questions. So I can tell whether someone's question is really in service to them or whether there's something underneath that. And I'll always reflect it back. I'm not going to decide for them. You know, here's here's the truth and you're going to receive it. But we have a conversation. And what I'm looking for is synergy and I'm looking for a dissonance. So when someone tells me that they want to create certain things, I'm I'm checking into the pulse of that to see if that's actually in alignment with what they truly want with their soul truly wants. And I'm also looking for a dissonance that they may or may not be telling me meaning, whereas their incongruence between what they say they want or what they're telling me they want versus what they're actually doing in their life. And then I kind of work probably counterintuitively to what maybe people would think I should do. But I want to know what what's the worst case scenario? You want to have a seven figure business or you want to, you know, find a soul mate or you want to do whatever it is people are telling me they want. Tell me what the worst case scenario is of you having that and it stops people and it snaps them out of whatever neural pathways they're into, open them up to what the actual fear is. Because the reason why we don't do things in life is because we have fears. Usually they're unconscious. So once we eliminate what that actually with that fear actually is, then we can heal and reframe and create perspective and also receive perhaps intuitive guidance around.

[00:22:49] OK, well, how do we help you create that? So that fear is no longer an obstacle, though?

[00:22:55] A common fear would be, you know, fear of being attacked. Right. If I have it all, then I'm hot.

[00:23:03] PICKENS Basically for other people to criticize me and take me down. So people are already expecting to be taken down. When they succeed, they're going to respond as though they're already being taken down. They're going to dramatically slow down their progress with their goals because they're just trying to keep themselves safe. So we find a way to help people see that they're safe in being successful, for example, then they can take that path more easily. Because what happens is when people don't know why they're responding in fear, they then beat themselves up. Oh, I'm stupid. I'm not capable. I'm not enough of X or I'm too much of Y. And they instantly make themselves wrong because we learn that at a very young age that when in doubt it must be my fault. So if we're not moving forward in whatever goal we have, we instantly start beating ourselves up. And then that's a that's a vicious cycle. We just are on a hamster on a wheel. Then we just have our time moving forward because it's really hard to get motivated when we're also telling ourselves that we're stupid or incapable or unqualified or whatever, you know, things we're telling ourselves.

[00:24:07] Yeah. And you talk a lot. Not a lot in the book that I did read.

[00:24:12] And I should clarify for everyone listening, I read Quantum Leap for the Soul Manifesting Miracles Through the Power of Concretion, which was written a number of years ago, I believe, two thousand fourteen thousand fifteen, maybe earlier, I can't remember. And then I also had to look at Helier money story, but not incompletion. And so I'm speaking, namely about quantum leap for the soul. You start off in this introduction of the feminine divine, you know, and this this feminine power. And I'm kind of defining it. And even for myself, who had heard the term and indeed done some studying around it, it clarified and demystified some attributes that I had wrongly associated with it. And. And then you talk it, you pass it out through all of the different metrics that it's represented in our life and different areas. You give examples of things like that, and it's in order to apply it to this. This manifestation process, you know, of of miracles in this creation of one's own path and destiny. And I'm wondering how much of that looking at your library of books that you've produced that I haven't had the privilege yet of reading. How much of those kinds of principles are applied and intertwined with one another as someone who's coming into your work and really trying to apply some of your core tenants? Is there a similarity or do you feel like everything is kind of a separate journey, a stepping stone, if you will, into the path?

[00:25:38] That's a great question.

[00:25:40] I think it's important to look at feminine energy. But I would say that overall my general philosophy is around oneness. And I recognize that as humans, we have this innate need to get it. Get out our label maker, 3000 thousand. And I know you'll appreciate this because we both grew up in the same time frame.

[00:25:59] Right. We just are so attached to putting labels on everything.

[00:26:04] And I remember being young and. Really just thinking, why can't we all just be one? Not that we have to be the same. But why do we have to use. He, she, B, B and all kinds of things like why do we have to identify? There's nothing wrong with identifying that. But every time we create separation by way of labels, we.

[00:26:28] We know how we do one thing is how we do others, and so we start to see separate. I mean, we're seeing it right now in the pandemic. Holy cow. Week by week, it changes that. There's a lot of polarity and there's a benefit to polarity for sure. But I think that the ultimate goal is to have unity conscious as where we're really just all operating from our heart center and our hearts are what speaks truth as opposed to all of the other things. And of course, intellect is important and our physicality is important and so on. It shapes who we are. But I want to help people understand how. How does all this stuff shape who you are? And then who are you beyond that? At the core of who you really are? Yes, of course. You know, I am white. I was born in North America. I had working middle class parents. Of course, my my viewpoint of the world and my experience in the world and how other people treat me is predicated on all of that stuff that shaped who I am as I'm not rejecting it. But I also want to move beyond that at some point. And so that is part of, I think, the work that I do. And the soul's journey with folks is is allowing ourselves to constantly evolve and releasing attachment to who we were or who we thought we were. And being in the moment of who we are now and that I would say to with what's going on the world is it is a gift. I know that the way it's being delivered, it doesn't feel like a gift. But if we're going to look at silver linings in this, it's that we have an awareness and we're coming to various degrees of this awareness that who we were before just isn't coming back. And there's a level of almost ceremony that we need to have around saying goodbye to the aspects of us that were just we can grace and bless them. Thank you for bringing me to this point in my life. But what matters now in a lot of ways is so different than what was mattering twelve weeks ago, for example. And and so how do we live beyond labels and and connect to the truth of our identity on a soul level, which is that we're infinite and expansive and creative beings that are here to string together a bunch of moments and make every moment count?

[00:28:47] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:48] And I think that the reminder of our return to humanity. I have a personal belief that we are all born with an infinite capacity to love. And these types of situations bring about a lot of fear that can manifest in both negative and positive ways, depending on the person who is experiencing it. But I do believe that a reminder of our camaraderie as a civilization, you know, is at the epicenter of every good thing that ever happened. And so I think there's a key moment to be done with that. I'm wondering, given the Cauvin 19 and you talked about briefly earlier on, you mentioned working with people and things of that nature. Can you kind of speak to some of your observations when you've I don't know what work you've endeavored in recently, but since the pandemic hit? Can you kind of speak to some of your observations in what's happening or what's potentially possible to happen that could be of benefit or the ways that you're helping people during this particular crisis?

[00:29:55] Yeah, I've noticed that people overall are having an existential crisis. So people like me are busier right now because people want to know what's the meaning of life. Did my sense of the meaning of life actually match up with what the meaning of life is? What is my purpose? Now how can I express my purpose more? Part of the reason why I got into business coaching years ago was not because I want to be a business coach. I never envisioned that. It still kind of shocking to me today. But it's a way of me helping people get out of their own way and spread more light and help more people. So I had a massive deepening of conviction of purpose when this all went down. When I really when we had that moment, because I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world. But here in Canada, it was kind of this thing that was happening somewhere else. It was really, really downplayed it. And we went from literally one day it was being downplayed to the next day. You're all in lockdown and we're like, what's happening? Right. And it was in that moment that I had a lot of the things happen. One of them was what's called almost like a solar feminin rising where we just get this like fire in us. Right. And I thought, oh, I instantly thought, you know, I could see it all playing out almost in like a 30 second movie of the decimation of small and medium sized businesses. What it was the amount of people that were going to be without jobs, the massive financial hit. We had no we still had no idea that time with the virus was going to be or not be. But just the follow it. I could see it. And I had this feeling of I need to help humanity this deep, like primal mother energy almost come over me. And I've talked to a lot of women who had a similar feeling. So I've been busier than ever because everyone is initially it was presented as, hey, everyone now at your home for two weeks, why don't you learn some things? But that was never the angle I took, because I can see that the long term cause and effect was already bigger than what we were being told.

[00:31:59] And and so I really started promoting much more of the spiritual trainings that I had creating spiritual community, finding affordable ways for people to have access to me so that they could take the edge off and have some clarity, because I'm well known for speaking truth. And a lot of people came back from years ago saying I needed the truth and I knew I knew exactly who I needed to come to. So I always tried to deliver it with love, of course. But the truth, there's nothing really convenient about the truth, you know, uncomfortable.

[00:32:31] But a lot of times we're not ready to hear it.

[00:32:33] So people still know they needed it. So I've been spending a lot of time guiding people. Towards what their purpose is and what their purpose is now, and like I said, having almost like a ceremony of greeting the aspects of our lives and the aspects of ourselves that are not they're just not going to be able to come with us. But also really celebrating and honoring and honing the aspects of ourselves and our skills that are needed more now than ever. I think one of the things people are noticing, especially in my community, is that they were made for this time. They really have gone to see with 20/20 vision that, oh, my goodness, my whole life has prepared me for this moment. And that's certainly how I felt when you know what I shared with you about all the crisis work that I used to do. So that's a piece of it, the existential piece. And then the other piece is really keep, you know, people live from trauma anyways. They don't know they are.

[00:33:30] But something like this that really pokes a lot of trauma buttons and there's so many layers of trauma. If we don't deal with that, we just freeze. And there's a lot of people that are frozen and then they're making themselves wrong because they're frozen and they know they need to move, but they just can't move. I think we've all had that experience when we wake up in bed and we're just lying there and we like we're sinking deeper and deeper into the bed. A lot of people are feeling that they're living life that way right now. And so they feel guilty that they're not out there helping, but they can't bring themselves to. Everything feels like an effort because they got adrenal fatigue, brushing their teeth feels like an effort. Getting groceries feels like an effort, right? That's all. Those are all signs of adrenal fatigue. And so how do we keep folks out of their own way so that they can get to do the things that they know they're feeling called to do? So there is no playbook for this. It's it's complex and flavored. It's it's profound. And there's a lot of GIFs on this and there's a lot of suffering and tragedy in this, too. And. It's and then you put social media on top about. Yeah, and the fact that Freddie Prekop, that we had fake accounts and A.I. that were purposely yeary information to us, people that run Vickki accounts to try and guide the narrative and get us for leadings things. And so we're seeing that now with just the ways that. And then you've got people that are scrolling or hypnotized and they're scrolling. They're highly susceptible because they're in a more have not state. And they're reading headlines on one camera. The other does even matter. And they're taking it as truth because they're not at that level of a sermon because they're in their theater brainwaves. Right. Essentially being hypnotized by the alone. So they're taking and things to be true. That may not be true. I'm not saying they're not true. And then if they're getting news from there scrolling that would suggest that they should be more afraid, then the fear is giving more and more magnified. Which means the adrenals are getting more and more burnt out, which means that they're more and more frozen and then making themselves more and more wrong for not getting out and doing the work. So it's there's a lot of getting off. Like I said, that there's there's a lot of fallout. And I decided last week. When talking with my guides that this conversation isn't coming to an end. You know, we we know that although we'll go through stages of this beyond the virus, even when the virus finally runs its course. All of the aftermath, we'll be we'll be going through stages with that, just like organizational change. Right. Having worked in corporations, I know that changes really slow. And there's many layers of it or phases of it. And so we can probably expect to be dealing with the fallout of this for at least two years. Like the immediate fallout. Right. And trying to recalibrate to some semblance of life as we knew it, although most people are saying we won't ever see that changing economies, that actual currency is going to change. There's a ton of people that are gonna be jobless. And then they have to decide what they're going to do or are they gonna start a business or are they going to farm what you know, what are they going to do with their lives and knowing that this conversation isn't going away. But we don't want to be living and immersed in this conversation. What do we do? So I decided last week this will be the week and I need the announcement to my community that we're going to start future visioning again. Well, you know, gas is going to look different. Yes, our marketing message needs to look different. Yes. The way we serve people and how we present our services to people needs to be different. And we can't be tone deaf. But we do have to get back into visioning the future instead of literally being in a holding pattern waiting for more news. I remember in 9/11. Being so addicted to the news for weeks because we kept waiting for when's the next attack and when is anthrax going to be on my doorstep, and it just became very consuming for a long period of time. And then I eventually had to pull myself out about and I know many other people did, because otherwise you just kind of drive yourself crazy, right?

[00:37:46] I just. Of what's going on. Yeah. And it's a state of suspended animation.

[00:37:51] You know, there's a moment to car calmly sit, reflect, marinate in the potential outcomes, you know, as as every good, you know, wonderfully logic or imaginative mind should and ought to. But after that, you need to maintain that sense of suspended, you know, outcome is it's treacherous on the human mind. Right. It's it's a form of torture. It's the best way to brainwash someone to never let them know when or what something is coming. So and I agree with what you're saying. I'm really interested in talking about the future visioning again and that you're pushing people to do. But before we get to that, I was dying to know, after all of my research, I always ask myself, what is the number one thing that you yourself, Patricia, just cannot reach? Ask Jennifer.

[00:38:37] And one of them was and I had about five. I never get justice done. But now my top one was.

[00:38:44] Do you yourself have a mentor or a guide? I'm very fascinated with these prophetic symbols in people in our life, people who are coaches, guides, presidents, mothers, fathers who they look to for advice. And I'm wondering you yourself, do you have guide or mentors or teachers that you draw upon still?

[00:39:09] Absolutely, I. I never want to be in a position where I think I know it all or I've come to realize at all. And I feel that being a student and a teacher at the same time, although it may look different, is important for our growth. That's just my perspective. And so, yes, just before all of this happened, I hired one of my long term friends who's a financial adviser. He's very woo like me.

[00:39:35] And we were building the company to sell it and. And creating a plan and getting ready to buy some apartment buildings and turn them into affordable housing. And we had all these big plans. And then this hit. And I know that happened to many people, by the way, where it's almost like the universe gave us the nudge to make the move. And we thought the move was about one thing, but it was really about another thing. Yeah. And like, I was guided to sell all my rental properties. And I thought it was because I was retiring my husband. It's really because I need to get out of the rental market right now. Right. With everything that's happening and the government telling people they don't have to pay rent and that kind of stuff. Right. Like, it's it ends up being costly.

[00:40:17] But that's a story for another day.

[00:40:20] Anyways, I am I a pretty discerning now about who I let into my life, because I think that even the most clean energy and people, they still will bring their own filters to us. Right. Just as I do with my clients. I don't mean to it's just going to happen. And so I have to get really clear myself. What do I want to be creating? And then who is the best person to help me create that? Sometimes I know, sometimes I don't. But I can. I think to all the people I've listened to over the years, I'm so grateful for people like Oprah. You know, she was a huge part of my journey. I don't know what it was twenty five years ago or so when she was introducing us to all those self-help worker, her authors, I should say, and that and even just who she was and what she stood for, the energy that she held. Right. Showing us what's possible as women. And so that's just an example. There's all kinds of people I haven't personally hired that I look to. I appreciate someone like Shirley MacLaine, who took a lot of leaps of faith by talking about some pretty loose stuff in an environment and at the time in an era where was very much on the down low. And boy, Louise Hay starting her own publishing house. Think about how much energy and what a mountain she had declined to create that type of a publishing house at a time that she did. So there's a lot of people I admire. There's a lot of people I'm grateful for anything. Aside from being grateful for my parents, for Amy onto this planet, regardless of what our relationship was, I think I'm most grateful to myself, honestly. And I and I would invite people to look at that for themselves because. We've all been through some stuff, but in hindsight, you know, we got to look at it differently. But at the time we've been Coleco. Like what? You know, why am I going through this?

[00:42:17] And and so I'm grateful that I have dedicated myself to grow so that I can move more and more towards the person that I want to meet when I'm not in a body anymore. When I when I greet that version of me, when I'm out of a body, I want to look at her in the eyes and I want her to look at me in the eyes and say, Good job, champ.

[00:42:40] You did a good job. You did what you came there to do.

[00:42:42] I love that. I love that analogy. I can see it like dancing before me. You know, that that example is so epic to talk about who you want to be when you're no longer in a body anymore and run into. So normally I talk about goals that you have for your future business endeavors and things, but because you dropped a little nugget, I'd like to pick it up and ask you just a little bit with whatever little time we have left. And you said you wanted to start future visioning again. And and you wanted to start putting that out there and implementing this kind of what sounds to be action item based or at least this cohesive vision of the future. Can you explain to the audience what that means and how that that will take like implementation or even theoretical form?

[00:43:29] I'm I'm grateful that you asked that and I kind of have to hold myself accountable by saying this out loud.

[00:43:35] So it was an early you said you just decided and I was like, oh, hot off the press.

[00:43:42] Yeah. You know, I am I've moved towards having my own TV show for a while and things happen and it interrupts it. And I was I was on course to do that this year. And again, Koban hit. So I know I'm meant to be visible in the hilarity of that is I'm actually a very quiet kind of private person. I was very shy as a kid. If you told me that, I'd be on stage speaking to people or beyond podcasts or anything like that, I would have probably cried myself to sleep like the thought of that would have been so horrendous for me. And yet here I am. But I. In light of what's going on in the world and in light of how important I think it is to have. Have certain people's work showcased. I was already looking at this, but I'm going to be creating a platform for Lightworkers than censorship free platform for people to speak the truth. And that'll include more of these collaborative books. My clients will often say to me all I totally some of that. Were you having your own publishing house? I did. Well, it's kind of more than that.

[00:44:49] I want to be able to have a platform for people to have podcasts. And when we can finally get back to being in person stages for people to speak on and just find a variety of ways for people to use their voice in a way where they don't have to be censored. No, I'm not talking about inviting in rude and crude and violating the sort of things I'm talking about a platform for Lightworkers where they can speak truth and not worry about, you know, coming back to Facebook, for example, and seeing their video taken down or, you know, having to to pray to the YouTube gods and things like that. We hear about this. So don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for those platforms.

[00:45:26] But I do think where we're going in society, we need to have, you know, just safe places for people that speak their truth and help build.

[00:45:37] So I've always wanted to be a resource for people. And so I really like collaborating. I like having I'm.

[00:45:46] I have this in my Facebook group. I'll transition this onto my Web site, where I have an astrologer that provides weekly forecasts for people and a tarot card reader. And I'm numerologist and shway expert and these kind of folks just to add some light into people's life.

[00:45:59] I don't feel like I have to be the source of everyone's information. And, you know, I like introducing my community to other people. So it'll be kind of like bad not a psychic hotline by any means, but something where people can also have sessions with people that they resonate with. It makes sense, you know, for what they're wanting to create. And and then I will be buying up some companies, you know, to sort of recreate the wheel, just buying companies that can kind of come under that umbrella of overall helping people evolve their soul. And instead, again, instead of me spending a ton of time creating something that someone else Saari created for those people that are ready to step out of it, they're just not interested in having it anymore. But I can renumerated them for their sweat equity, basically. Then I'll bring those those companies into the fall this fall.

[00:46:49] And that's exciting. That's a powerful umbrella, you know, of like. It sounds like in a collaborative effort, the voices sound like they'll be fascinating. And it's a really exciting goal. And it's so it's I just got it first. I scooped and talked to him. That's exciting. I'm wondering as we wrap up today. I always ask and I've kind of changed this scenario a little bit because of the pandemic.

[00:47:17] But I'm curious if you yourself were advising yourself back after you had just left corporate and you were beginning this entire journey. Not one book was written.

[00:47:29] You were just starting everything out. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that person knowing what you know now?

[00:47:39] I love that you ask that there's very little I would change about that, but I would definitely hire a mentor. I was five years into my business before I then hired a mentor. And anyone I talked to that successful says that that's their biggest regret. There has yet to be a single person I've spoken to that didn't. Because mentors really, first of all, remind you what your goals are and hold you accountable to them. But they also they they shorten your learning curve because presumably you're hiring people that have already created what you want to create. So I. I would have done that. There was a point in the beginning where I was kind of swimming in fear and fear became like Groundhog Day. I got so bored with it that I eventually just said, okay, well, fear is boring me now. So I'm just going to put myself out there. What do I have to lose? So I guess I wouldn't say it's a regret that I. I couldn't easily. Allowed myself more speed, and I also, as I mentioned, went into a place of all I'm wondering the beginning. So instead of deciding people were going to say yes or no, I just decided I was in control of the doors. So I decided that I was in the driver's seat rather than other people were inviting me to their table. I had my table that I was going to invite people to. That makes any sense. Yeah. So I, I, I definitely knocked on doors and some doors flew open up that surprised me and other doors that I thought would open didn't open. And so I needed to learn how to be unattached to the whether the door is open or not. But I definitely could have been way more relentless about the doors that I knocked on and really just created an abundance of opportunities. And then I also would have hired someone more quickly, meaning like an assistant. I got really bottlenecked and it stagnated my growth and I just didn't know how to hire an extension of me.

[00:49:26] And then I realized I don't need an extension of me, I need to be me, and I need to hire someone that knows what to take off my plate. It wasn't my job to know what they could take off. My my it was they worked out what they could take off my plate.

[00:49:40] So my my growth definitely slowed down because like I said, I was the admin and the janitor and the bathroom cleaner and the chance of something wrong with those things.

[00:49:52] But at some point I became problematic because I was too busy, so.

[00:49:57] All right. That's it sounds.

[00:49:59] And to that last point, I find it I speak primarily for those who are familiar with my work. I speak largely with women, female identified, non binary individuals and children. So I can't speak with great authority to this end. But what I do know about women is that they are bred to do that. They are bred not to outsource. You know, you are mother, breadwinner, wife. All of us, daughter, caregiver, all of those things. And I've never spoken to a woman from any culture that I've visited and I globe trot regularly that isn't brought up with that idea and also takes great pleasure in it. It's not always this, you know, horrible cross to bear. But I will say that most female entrepreneurs and founders of the highest echelon are still saying, I really should have hired someone long before I did. And as it's a common theme. But just you realist's what I heard is hire a mentor. And number two, allow more speed. Don't let fear roadblock you let off and wonder. Open the doors, invite people to the table and hire an assistant quickly.

[00:51:08] I love those. That's like a that's an incredible outline. There's your next book.

[00:51:12] From Me to Get an Assignment.

[00:51:17] I really appreciate your time today, Jennifer. We are out of time, but I could talk forever. And I just want to say I really, really appreciate you sharing your voice and your wisdom with us.

[00:51:27] Well, thank you. It was a great honor to be here. I really appreciate you inviting me on today.

[00:51:32] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been talking with Jennifer long more. You can hear more about what she's doing and contact her on w w w dot soul journeys, dot CAA. And thank you for listening to our show today.

[00:51:47] I hope you all stay well, stay in love, stay in peace and remember to always bet on yourself.

View Details

Today I speak with Tina Brown. Tina began to provide financial wealth, empowerment, and health wellness resources for women through My Sister’s Keeper Expo created in 2015. Tina’s life has been a display of strength and courage mixed with compassion and love. Tina has always dreamed of being able to help teenagers reach their dreams.

TRANSCRIPTION *Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to sit down with founder and CEO Tina Brown. Key points addressed where Tinas convention called My Sister's Keeper Expo, which was launched in 2015. It was providing a yearly expo filled with financial wealth, empowerment and health wellness resources for women. We also discussed Tinas nonprofit Starbound Inc, which is an endeavor that reflects her passion for helping teenagers at risk. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Tina Brown.

[00:00:36] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen dot COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Being and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia.

[00:01:36] And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Tina Brown. She's the founder and CEO of a couple of different companies. You can find out more about her companies and her nonprofit on w w w dot. My Sister's Keeper Expo. Dot com. Welcome, Tina.

[00:01:51] Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:53] Absolutely. I can't wait to kind of climb through. You have a production company and you have this nonprofit, Starbound, and then you have my Sister's Keeper Expo and they all kind of have this beautiful narrative between the three of them. And I want to dove into each of those. But before we get to that, I want to tell everyone listening. I have a bio that I'll be reading on TNA to give everyone this kind of platform of her professional history. But before we get to that, a roadmap of today's podcast. We'll follow the same trajectory as all of those in this podcast series. Namely, we'll start by looking at Tinas academic background, early professional life and personal narrative that kind of draws as to where she is now. And then we'll start look towards unpacking her nonprofit, Starbound Inc, her production company, Tina Brown Productions, and her My Sister's Keeper Expo. And we'll get into some of the logistics of who, what, when, where, why, how, with funding, founders, co-founders, all of those things, growth that all of those endeavors have received since they've been launched. And then we'll turn our efforts towards looking at goals that she has for the next one to three years for herself and her business endeavors. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice that Tina and I have. For those of you who are looking to get involved or contact her or emulate some of what she has done. A quick bio on Tina. Before I start peppering her with questions, Tina Brown was born in San Francisco, California. Three days after her birth, she was abandoned by her biological mother and left on the doorstep of of couple Mr. and Mrs. Walker, who raised her as their own. Later, a runaway teenage mother, Tina, still continued her education, taking up criminal justice at San Francisco City College. She has been employed with the city and county of San Francisco for 25 years. Tinas nonprofit organization Starbound Inc is a true reflection of the passion she has for helping teenagers. And her love of music made her dream come true come true. When she founded her own production company, Tina Brown Productions, where she serves as CEO after receiving a vision from God, Tina began to provide financial wealth, empowerment and health wellness resources for women through My Sister's Keeper Expo created in 2015. Tina hosted her third annual expo in October of 2018 and offered women the resources and support needed for their success. In spite of her busy schedule, Tina always places her Christian life first. She's an active member of her church as a servant leader for the women's ministry. Tinas life has been a display of strength and courage mixed with compassion and love. Tina has always dreamed of being able to help teenagers reach their dreams.

[00:04:33] So it's, you know, I think it's such a powerful bio that you have. It's it's such a mixture of the endeavors that you're currently involved in and your pursuit, an ethos that you run your life by. But before we get to all of that, I'm hoping that you can draw a numeral a little bit further on what I spoke about in reading your bio. If you can tell everyone listening about your academic background and early professional life that brought you to launching your first business endeavor.

[00:04:58] OK. I will start off by saying that I was a young girl 10, 10 and a half turning eleven. I end up being homeless in the streets. I didn't have many.

[00:05:14] I didn't have I didn't go to school at that time. And when I type there was like a two and a half year time period. I became a teenage mom. I had my children. And at that time I started to pursue going back to school. I went to teen pregnancy school and then I would finish high school. And then I attended city college. And that's where I got my criminal justice information, my classes. I didn't I didn't graduate from there because it became the fact that I had to work and take care of my my children at that time. So I wasn't able to finish that. And of course, life goes on.

[00:05:52] Say it's never too late. So that's life. Just calm down a little bit when it calms down.

[00:05:58] That's something that I will entertain pursuing to go back.

[00:06:01] Absolutely. It never is. And for me and the older I get, the more, you know, I get out of my educational training returning. I kind of feel like we do it backwards in this country. I've had a lot of professors speak to this as well, but saying, you know, you should work when you're young and go to school when you're older and can handle it. And all of those thoughts I'm wondering about. So which you've had three endeavors that I want to impact here today. I'm sure you've had a gazillion more than that. But a Starbound Inc, I want to know. Did your nonprofit. Come first, did the production company or My Sister's Keeper Expo?

[00:06:38] Nonprofit was first, actually. And when I listened to you read the bio, I'm like, Oh wow, this, you know, three different companies. But each one represented a piece of me where I was at at that particular time and how I developed that particular company.

[00:06:55] So what was the impetus for starting it? I mean, it's it's obvious that it was connected to your own pursuit in your own life as as a young teenager undergoing more than the average stressors. And did you have a directional goal when you launched that nonprofit as to how you were going to implement it and which communities or groups you were going to address?

[00:07:14] Actually, no. It was actually suggested to me. I've always wanted to help young girls because I was that young girl that didn't have anyone to feed into me or, you know, to talk to. So with that, I always worked with young girls and I was talking to her name was Jamila, actually one day. And just like you should start a nonprofit online. What's a nonprofit? Yes. And to explain. And so she offered to help me do that. And that's how Starbound each was incorporated. And even though it wasn't corporate, I still didn't have the knowledge or didn't use it to its full capacity at that time because it started in 2012. I just continue to help the girls on my own funding because I know how important it was. And with that, Starbound starts to, you know, take effect and get donations for, you know, like Tripps going to a game or just that type of thing.

[00:08:09] It's a major undertaking. Did you go through any type of an accelerator or how did you garner all of the knowledge? Nonprofits are such a different beast, right?

[00:08:17] They're like their own form of business. They have their own set of laws and rules. Did you have an advisor or a mentor that advised you or just kind of figured out as you went?

[00:08:26] No, I figured it along the way. She Djamila set up the whole nonprofit. So when I received my paperwork, I was already a nonprofit. So it was just at that time where I had to, you know, get a duns number and get it. Yeah, no. Oh. Type of things. But I learned as I go everything I must say that everything in my whole life, unfortunately, was like self-taught.

[00:08:51] Yeah.

[00:08:52] That's amazing. I mean, it's the information and the utility of knowledge when self-taught is usually much more deep, much more deep. It runs deeper. You know, it has a different effect on the person in the way that they run the business. In my humble opinion, I'm wondering. And so have. Has there been kind of a growth with it since you launched in 2012? And it's a nonprofit which has some flexibility. Has it changed and manifested over the years? Have there been some quieter years and some heavier years? And also, do you ally with other nonprofits who have similar goals and motives?

[00:09:29] Actually, I did not. I didn't network at that time.

[00:09:34] I'm just starting to really take advantage of the nonprofit and collaborate with different nonprofits. As I've gotten older and seen how it really works and how much more it could thrive more with the collaboration's like Larkin Street Youth that's in San Francisco, where, you know, they have their teeth. They have their youth programs focus on housing. But it also focused on speakers coming in and those type of things. So I've been able to collaborate a little bit with them. And then we have Huckleberry House, which is a house for runaways, which was right down the street from where I reside. Where I grew up. That and so I'm able to talk to young kids from there as well.

[00:10:16] That's awesome. So when did the production company. Tina Brown Productions come along that came along in the in?

[00:10:25] Actually, it twenty's 2014 because as I was homeless out there in the streets, I've always had music.

[00:10:35] So I have a great love for music. So I will listen to particular artists and things like that. And I wanted to see how I can make that happen and bring it to the Bay Area. So I started off with my church, like doing a church prayer breakfast, and I will bring in certain artists to come in and perform. And then it became like that was just like second hand. I just knew how to do that again. It's crazy. I was blessed to have that skill set. I worked at a B.F. F. as a volunteer. So I've had different people that were able to pour into me to where I was like, I think I want to have my own production company. I think I want to, you know, do that. I wanted to do film, but it's just I still haven't graduated, so I got to tell my story and to tell other stories that people encounter in their life span.

[00:11:25] Absolutely. So that's storytelling. The production company, does it have like a specialty or an area population, a group that it centers more towards? Or is this is it kind of anything that lands in your lap or any projects that you find interesting?

[00:11:41] It's really RB music and Christian.

[00:11:45] OK. Yeah. Sounds like that from the basis of launching within the church. I'm wondering, when did it when do you feel like that production company launched if you don't have a specific date. Do you have a year that you kind of felt like it was founded? And how long before was it before My Sister's Keeper Expo came along that launched in twenty.

[00:12:08] Fourteen. I was the summer was the summer because my first show was in November, November 4th in twenty fourteen. So.

[00:12:20] Yeah. Okay. And then my Sisters Keeper Expo. When did the idea for this come along and what was the impetus or the story behind developing it in 2014.

[00:12:33] Once I launched launched Tina Brown Productions.

[00:12:37] I found out I started to really get to know myself because in life you're just dealing with hunches that come along along the way.

[00:12:45] So that's when I start to realize that I was really a broken person and my self-esteem was really shocked to extent so because it got to a point with the shows, I wanted to do more. But then I would hear that little voice that says you could do it. You know, all my past failures came to creep up behind me. So with that, I realized when I realized that I was broken. I started to go out and get help. I started to go to workshops and listen to different people speak. And I went to Dallas for T.D. Jakes. He has a woman that are not loose a bit mega fest every year. And that's where I went there. And I had a vision that night from God. There was a room full of women. And I was like, well, I do that with my prayer book. So I really, you know, she did off. However, later on I went to a symposium and the girl there needs to be show Warner. She talked about how drain's impact us, how they're from, you know, God has things that he wants us to do. And afterwards, I connected with her and she had just shared little pieces of me and how I was fearful and how I didn't feel good enough. I felt less than and we talked a lot. And then there formed My Sister's Keeper because I had a conversation with a young girl and she was pregnant and she didn't think she was going to make it. She did that life. There was no life ahead of her. She just thought it was over. And I began to share my story with her and she ended up saying, I wish I had a sister. And when she said that, that resonated so well with me because I did so there was my sister's keeper. And it's really to build women up where I'm at. Like, I, you know, in the 40s, you think your souls have it all together. Some people wife showed up, though, and I didn't have it all together so as to help get our finances going. I care about money. It was as I was doing money given, you know, doing my girls programs and my production company. I really didn't have the solid knowledge of how I'm supposed to save or what stops a lot. So what is stocks about things like that? So when my sister's keeper up on that message to the Bay Area, for them to to hear the different speakers speak about things that was relatable to us and how it affects our community.

[00:15:06] That's exciting. And I think it's it's so crucial that people think that everyone's connected to all pieces of knowledge. You know, with the advent of social media and there is. Clearly, you know, in the industries and the people that I work with, which are women, female identified, non binary individuals, there are huge pockets, still completely mystifying. You mentioned the stock market and things like that. I have very seasoned sage colleagues, you know, who are female or female identified that are still terrified of those systems, don't understand them and claim that they don't want to get involved with them, you know. And so I think that breaking open those systems that have been largely dominated by, you know, a different gender or group is is really important. I'm wondering, can you kind of unpack or at least give us, like, a bird's eye view of what an expo event would have been like? Did it change from, you know, the first one to the last one that you had and was the last one in 2018 or 2019?

[00:16:02] Well, I actually was in two thousand eighteen. I didn't do one last year. I was working on the one for me, twenty twenty within Corona of it. And we, I say can work over 19.

[00:16:15] Absolutely. So what was the bird's eye view for the last one in 2018? Was it multiday?

[00:16:20] Was it one day don't breakout sessions. One day breakout sessions, different speakers come in and talk about different topics. Lunch was provided. We had we honored that that year. We are on it.

[00:16:35] Renel, she's a local deejay in the Bay Area. We we honored her. We honor Carolyn Tyler and wanted to rent was our keynote speaker for that year.

[00:16:47] Nice. So how does has the structure changed since you created it in 2015? I mean, you had this three year stint, but I hear frequently from people who host festivals or founders of events and things of this nature. You kind of massage it to the you know, to the industry and to the needs of the attendees and things like that. What changes existed over the three years that it was going up?

[00:17:12] Actually, the interest really grew. It grew probably because of the the not the topics that were discussed. My first one, you know, was like all day and I had M.S. like I keynote speaker and I massage it, too, because I always want it more. So I'm always reaching a high bar, reaching high. So I always wanted to be better than the last year. And I focus on whatever topic we're going whatever is going well in this particular season.

[00:17:43] Those are the speakers that I want to come speak and share with us today.

[00:17:47] Give us that knowledge and that insight to make us feel better is the hard part was is getting sponsors and stuff on board, because there again, I spent all my money on on into the program itself, but eventually that'll come.

[00:18:04] Do you think that moving forward you'll move some of it into a virtual space or do you think that you're far enough out from the next one? There will be a vaccine. People will return to nonsocial. This isn't saying. Also, do you think that the format could be conveyed as powerfully if it wasn't in person? I've spoken to a lot of people that say even if I can employ this Zoome aspect, the point of it was being in this group of people.

[00:18:27] I totally agree. I totally agree. That's why I haven't done it. I had the option to deliver Virtual for this year, but I declined because it's the atmosphere at the buildings. It's not as real. I mean, it's not as authentic as it's being there in person.

[00:18:43] Yeah, absolutely. So will you postpone the lineup that you were getting ready for in 2020 or will you completely revamp the entire thing for twenty, twenty one?

[00:18:53] I'm going to revamp it for twenty, twenty one because I think this year is pretty much halfway gone. And I want to focus on getting, you know, a fresh start. So Angela Davis was our keynote speaker this year. Hopefully she'll still be able to be on board for next year, but it'll be May 1st, 20, 21. Best to date scheduled May 1st, 2021.

[00:19:15] Excellence. And I'm sure you'll update it on My Sister's Keeper, Ex Baucom, everyone listening information from the vendor.

[00:19:23] But best that that data's available at that space. But as soon as I get the green light and that's the Tenzer.

[00:19:29] OK. And do you have other social handles that people can kind of follow some of this across with you?

[00:19:35] I have my Sister's Keeper XPO on Instagram, my sister's keeper on Facebook and link in my schools.

[00:19:43] Yes, yes. Everyone can kind of connect on their favorite and then follow it. Yeah. It sounds like a dynamite, at least Keano. So is everyone who's in the area should look into attending. I'm wondering. I've spoken with a lot of founders and over the past couple of months with the Koven 19 epidemic pandemic. And it's given people, in addition to the sorrow and the sadness, a lot of people have taken the time to reflect and and even reassess business, personal re. Conversation wise, their life with itself, with the outside world, and I'm wondering if you have done that with some of your endeavors and any changes that have come up for you over the past couple of months or any goals that have surfaced as a result of this kind of forced meditation that people have been having?

[00:20:36] Actually, I haven't had much time to sit because I'm a central worker. So they I'm out there front line. I work for the city and county homeless department. So I've been out there every day.

[00:20:51] Yeah. That's. So you are a unicorn in the people I've been speaking to. And I first want to just say thank you for your service and for being, you know, brave and and helping us all out and being an essential worker has its own incredible bag of baggage. I can't even imagine. So I do kind of want to dove into that because you're the first person that I've spoken to that is frontlines thus far since the pandemic hit. Has the how has the rhetoric within your department ban regarding the safety and the way that the city of San Francisco is handling it?

[00:21:33] I think I think the city of San Francisco's handled it very well. I'm really, really supportive of our mayor. When Mayor Brait, our department, actually is focused on homelessness. So, of course, it has like tripled as far as because our main goal is to get the people off the street and into hotels. So we're setting that up. And that takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of patience. But in the end, we'll get through. It probably will hit everyone at Nesto Reality part of it, but we'll hit majority.

[00:22:06] Has there been any talk about post? I live in San Diego and likewise we have these efforts to help individuals who are in homelessness. Reconvene right now to our International Conference Center and a couple of other places that they've loosened up. But there have been a lot of grassroots movements to give these individuals an opportunity not to return to the streets or start implementing mental health systems. Now that, you know, we've done this move. There's been a lot of talk about not having a return to prior moments. Has there been any of that in the city of San Francisco?

[00:22:41] Yes. Yes, there is. There's talks about it as far as because it would be ridiculous to house all these people. And then once the Cold War is over, we release them back to the street where we worked and basically in vain. So they are working on programs to keep them house. It's just a matter of budgeting and all the federal and all of these other Congress in votes. And it's beyond my control. But it is there. There are plans in place.

[00:23:11] Interesting. So you haven't had time to sit and reflect, as I very naively asked. I'm wondering, as you've gone in day in and day out with the kind of scarcity of people on the streets and things like that. Have you ruminated to yourself? Have there been thoughts that came over you about. Anything that's uplifting, things that you've noticed, you know, during this this incredible time of hardship for people, particularly people who are homeless, the idea of sheltering in place when you don't have a shelter is abusive and mean, you know, and having those thoughts you must have had early on. I'm wondering if you can share any nuggets of hopefulness or even lessons that you kind of washed over you or that you had with yourself.

[00:23:57] Well, for me, being homeless on the Akesson and a homeless community, my community, I could take that real personal because I walked those streets that they walk. I lived on some of those streets that they sleep on. So I get that part of it. And quite as a kid, we have our own community.

[00:24:14] So the hopefulness comes out of, you know, well, we're going to be OK. We're you know, we're going to survive this. Whether you have your your your people that are in addictions, your street walkers, still, there's a sense of that community sticking together and trying to go whichever way is beneficial to them and how we can stick it like I know people that want to stay right here in this area. So I take it back to my office where, you know, we've got to find hotels. We have to find a spot where you could just stay right here because this is their comfort zone. We can't move people out of their comfort zones. It's it becomes a that's a whole nother beast. So I see people on the street. Yes.

[00:24:54] But they're still hopeful.

[00:24:55] They're there. They're they're hopeful that things will get better.

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:01] Absolutely, and everyone needs hope, you know. And I think to be able to be hopeful is is crucial. I'm wondering, where do you see the production company? You said you were heading into film. Do you see any? Like, I feel like there's an opportunity for cross pollination between some of your companies. Have you ever thought about bringing your production company into the expo and utilizing some of that there in your future? Or is it still kind of disparate, separate measures?

[00:25:32] I've thought about it, but I would be wearing too many hats at one time.

[00:25:36] So I have to reach I'll have to learn to delegate and pick different people that those are in their field. I right now, my mindset is focused. I want to do a best me housing. I want to provide housing for young women. I'm trying to get capital to to purchase a building or you're going to lease a building for five years because I want to start that process because again, that's the walk that I come from. So at the end of the day, that's that's something that I didn't think I could do. Essential work were being put in a position where now I'm a project manager for starting up a hotel and putting people in it almost like I could do this. And I could help. I could give back. I always, always, always want to just give back because I know that I know that journey.

[00:26:22] So that's all that's on my pipeline now. And as far as Tina Brown Productions, I'm trying to work on Skilling starting my own podcast.

[00:26:29] I just have to figure out a day at a time. And yeah. And talk about things that go on in the community and how how we're affected by that and what change to take place for us all to be able to thrive, not just thrive.

[00:26:41] Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. It's a powerful topic that was never ending for a podcast. I would tune in immediately. Do you. So would you do it? This kind of dream that's formulating right now because of all the access that you have in implementing these structures for your current work with the city of Sandy at San Francisco? Would it be under Starbound? Would you do that under your nonprofit? Yes.

[00:27:07] Yes, definitely. And I would actually have to quit my job. So there goes that fear again, because I would be a topic of interest right now. There goes a fear again, because I'm like, I can't just do it because I don't have a funding to get a bill or to finance ability. So, you know, that kind of makes me kind of nervous. But, you know, people told me to do fundraisers and, you know, I probably will, but it just takes me a while longer. But that's that's that's a goal that I would love to accomplish. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:36] And for everyone listening, if you're interested in getting involved in any of those activities, reach out and, you know, throw some some lifelines into the water with Tina. I think that there's a lot of collaboration that can happen when someone's you've got a lot of the wisdom and stuff like that. And you need some of the energy that there are a lot of people out there with energy and resources that you can collaborate on partnering up. I think as good as a forty three year old woman, I haven't done half the collaborating and partnering that I ought to have done that a lot of my male colleagues have done because I was too busy working twice as hard as them, you know, and doing different things. And as women coming together as well, there's unity there, you know. And so. Yep, reach out to Tina. I'm wondering I want to wrap everything up with I always ask this in the end, and I don't know if this doesn't resonate with you. I can come up with a different analogy. You. But you'll bear with me. I am wondering if someone came up to you tomorrow without the covered concerns, they were actually able to speak with you without being concerned within a six foot radius. And it was a woman or a female identified non binary, pretty much anyone other than a cis gendered male man. And they said, listen, I am you know, I've had this this very interesting past and it's been riddled by a lot of struggle, but a lot of lessons and a lot of accumulation of knowledge. And I've been gifted with this faith and all of these things that I have. And I now I'm looking to launch like a nonprofit and maybe another company. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?

[00:29:15] My first one was the to plan A.. I just did everything just off a thought process vision, just I think I will say plan. I would say you have to put on.

[00:29:30] Let's see your armor because you have to be strong because everything doesn't happen just like that.

[00:29:35] It doesn't. And focus on finances so that you won't be in the struggle and. The business will take such hard hits and so, so many hits to keep it going.

[00:29:53] So those are finance strengths. You definitely need strength to get through whatever journey you're trying to start. I mean, and faith, you've got to believe if it's something that's on you, you've got to believe, then you'll get through it and then we'll have nice.

[00:30:08] I like that form of armor being strength. That's both internal and external. Yeah. And I mean financial knowledge. And to be able to alleviate early stage struggle with any endeavor is another form of armor. That's a really great visual. Well, you know, we are out of time, but I just want to thank you so much. I really appreciate everything that you're doing. Your goals in all of your endeavors.

[00:30:32] My Sister's Keeper Expo, your nonprofit, Starbound Inc and your production company, they all align really great deal with what a focus of Patricia Kesling podcast and my film company do. And I really appreciate the work that you're putting into humanity. We need it.

[00:30:49] Oh, thank you. And I thank you for having me, Miss Patricia. Thank you.

[00:30:53] I appreciate that. Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Miss Tina Brown. She's the founder and CEO of My Sister's Keeper Expo dot com. You can find her online at that Web site as well as across her social media handles.

[00:31:09] Thank you for giving us your time. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself

View Details

Today I am chatting with Chana Ginelle Ewing. Chana is cultural entrepreneur, marketer, and author working across film, books, retail and tech. She is the author of the bestselling book, An ABC of Equality (with illustration by Paulina Morgan; published by Quarto, 2019), introducing identity and social justice concepts to children. She believes that identity is a lever to pull to unlock human potential. And entrepreneurship is an opportunity to make dents that move culture forward. She’s currently pivoting GEENIE to maximize value for diverse consumers and small business owners.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:40] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status. For industry, we aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen dot COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:38] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. Today I am sitting down with Chana, Ginelle Ewing. She is a founder, entrepreneur and author. You can find out more on her website. Chana Ewing dot com. That is C h a n a e w i n g dot com. Welcome, Chana.

[00:01:57] Thank you for having me, Patricia.

[00:01:59] Absolutely. I'm excited to unpack everything that you do. I know you've got a like of several different areas that you work within. And I also look forward to unpacking your book, which was a very unexpected surprise when I was doing research on you for everyone listening. A quick roadmap of today's podcast. I will read a quick bio on Chana. But before I do that, we will first look at unpacking and looking at her academic history, as well as early professional career that brought her to where she is now. And then we will look at unpacking her different endeavors, namely Chana's book an ABC of equality. Then we will look at her company titled Gini. And the interesting pivoting point that is at now and then, we will also look towards another endeavor that I will have her explain and enumerate on called Little Big Girl and Company, which is based out of New York City. Then we'll turn our efforts towards looking at goals that China has for all of her endeavors, as well as personally for the next one to three years. This is an area that has been changing for every business owner globally. We'll wrap everything up with advice that China may have for those of you who are looking to get involved in some of her endeavors or perhaps emulate some of her amazing success. A quick bio on Chana. Before I start peppering her with questions. Chana Ginelle Ewing is cultural entrepreneur, marketer and author, working across films, books, retail and tech. She is the author of the bestselling book an ABC of Equality with illustrations by Pollina Morgan, published by Quarto in 2019, introducing identity and social justice concepts to children. She believes that identity is a lever to pull to unlock human potential and entrepreneur. Entrepreneurship is an opportunity to make dents that move culture forward. She's currently pivoting GENI to maximize value for diverse cust consumers and small business owners. I kind of dropped that a little a little bait for everyone to listen in the beginning because I love companies that are in transition and pivoting moments.

[00:04:02] I think it's so fun and I want to go into that.

[00:04:05] But before we get there, I'm hoping you can draw just a quick description of your academic background and early professional life that brought you to the launching of Little Big Girl and Jenie and writing your book. Yeah. So I'm going to start earlier in my academic background because I think the sort of weaves together nicely around like my professional interests over the letter. It has since graduated anthologies over the last 50 or so. But very early in life, like I think third or fourth grade, I've learned about this word called screenwriters likes screenwriting without my mother, like, you know, who are the people? And I don't know what how well, what was it or the people writing the movies, you know, like I was whatever reason. I realized that I was watching something that was constructive and that fascinated me. And I wanted to figure out how I could become a screenwriter. So that was kind of like from being a very young child in elementary school.

[00:05:13] I got just. Got onto that cap of like, you want to create content, you know, like that was my goal. And so that was sort of the driving force throughout, like, you know, middle school and high school and then eventually college, where I majored in African-American studies and media studies at the University of Virginia. So and then, you know, while I was at you, B.A., it was like really like a focus on developing my storytelling craft. And I thought that I was going to become a director of a writer director.

[00:05:56] And that was that was going to be my professional career. And so the other pieces that I knew that I wanted to live in New York, because if you want to, you know, want to work in the film and television industry, it's like either two spaces, New York or L.A.. And I just knew that I was a New York girl. You know, Slainte L.A. was not going to be for me. I'm from the East Coast. I'm from Boston. I love big cities. I love being in a city. So, you know, New York is going to be west, establish my career. So I came to New York on about two thousand five. And this is before. And the reason why this is important, because I think the today's landscape around filmmaking is a lot different. Bulik, right. Right. Then it was still more the traditional filmmaking trajectory, like where you would be become a P.A. and then, you know, work your way up that, you know, pick a production supervisor or manager, you know, like you kind of work up the production track, like professionally and then somehow figure out how to create your, you know, become a director or a writer on the side because it wasn't a real, like, clear professional through line for writing directing where you could get paid for it. Right. It's always like prete Kickstarter and priede like. Yeah, indigo go and pre like like let's let's do it yourself. You know, it was right when that when, where people were still figuring how do they you know, if you weren't independently wealthy and you didn't have huge connections. Like how does a 20 something year old, you know, make our first film. And so without going to school. So I did a lot of that. That production work in New York realized very quickly that I did not like being a producer.

[00:07:47] And like at all, like I described no desire for work.

[00:07:53] And then also, like, coincidently like as I was doing the, like, full time job piece. So, you know, you could do production work over the weekend. And then I had a full time job. And one of the last full time jobs there has was at McKinsey and Co., which is the largest global management consulting firm in the world. Let me even though I went to UBS. Like I was a creative at heart. I didn't know anything about McKinsey until I got there, like what a big deal was to be there. Right. And I was an executive assistant and their media entertainment practice. So it was like, just by coincidence, I'm in the media entertainment practice. I want to be a media entertainment, but I want to be in media and saying it from the creative end. But I'm in the I'm now working for folks who are thinking about the business. Right. And they're thinking large clients like Viacom and Disney. And you're thinking about, you know, media and entertainment from a global perspective. And I'm serving the partners who are doing this work. So I'm going to look fantastic. Lives on like what the industry that I want to be in. But as a creator. And so I'm like, this is really like this is really interesting. And another thing that was interesting to me was that, like the partners maybe a few years older than me, you know, like they were like, you know, my eight needs. You know, I was like, OK, this is interesting. These talks are like, you know, using their brains. You've met creativity. And so with this man's results, there is some creativity there. And, you know, they're they're basically getting paid to use their minds. And I thought that that was like who had not even he didn't even know that was even a possibility as a career, you know? So when the like, recession happened in 2009, he got laid off. And I always tell people this is really interesting because we're in the middle of another recession right now. Like laid off. And I mean, this is this is a very privileged perspective to have. But being laid off was a game changer for me because things happened as a result of me being laid off. I got a severance package, severance package. I was I had unemployment. So for the first time in my life, I had a little. Money that I didn't necessarily have to like Ryan for, you know. So that meant that I had some space to think about what it is I want to do. Right. And so that. So that's what I'm usually like with you. You grew up working class. You grew up without, like, you know, someone being able to just, like, pay for you to explore. You know, it was like that was my moment to actually explore what are my true interests. And so in that year, after being laid off, I spent it really learning about entrepreneurship, learning about basaltic, because I had got like that entrepreneurial, even those in a company, you know, the way that that company is shaped. It's like, you know, there's a small teams that are going out and supporting other businesses. So I was like I was like that that was bit by that. Like, I got that book. It was like, OK. What is it that I know that I could serve other people with? And what I know really well is storytelling. And so I that's where I decided to develop Little Big Girl. And it was like our first initial piece was we were going to use the hero's journey like this, really simple. We were going to utilize the hero's journey to help small businesses tell their stories online. And that was it. Like, you know, we were this was like 2009, 2010. Everyone felt like I need to be on social media. How do I being social. Yeah. All right. Well, you can create a narrative around your business and connect with your consumers using the hero's journey as a as a kind of for the day.

[00:11:57] Let me grab you really quickly right there just to get some logistics out of the way for our nerdy listeners. So 2009, 2010, a little big girl launches.

[00:12:06] Were you the sole founder? Did you get any funding or did you bootstrap with that severance package? And and who were some of your first clients?

[00:12:17] Yes. So much of no funding. It was a services company. I think, you know, I don't think it does not a lot of like a funny resources for a service based company. Right. But I bootstrap with the money that I that I had from my severance and a portal to get out of my for one care. Pretty good. Hey, I was like, I don't know, late 20s at the time. Feels like, oh, I don't make up for this at some point, you know, like of like, you know, just thinking about like how I can get going. You know. Yeah. And I your first client.

[00:12:56] It was the was this entrepreneurial program that I was in. So I was in this program called Ladies Who Lunch. And I don't know they're familiar with them, but they are. I don't know. They're as active anymore. But essentially they were at that time, there was like a global organization that taught women how to become entrepreneurs. And they had like this membership community online. And so we like seeing the opportunity. I was like, well, you all have this great community. The social media doesn't seem to be as tight between the online community, the offline events and those social media handles like, you know, would you what would you be open to me? You know, coming you guys coming on board as like your digital marketing strategist? You know, these guys would be my first client. I'll give you a huge discount in order to come on and come on board as my first client. And they said, yes, they went for it. And I mean, the insight is that like which I feel like I don't take a lot of credit for it now, but like, I maybe I kind of knew it organically. But that was a really good move, because starting with a organization that has a bunch of other entrepreneurs that they serve meant that that was an embedded customer pipeline. Right. So if I did a good job with the organization, obviously they would recommend me to go with an entrepreneurs that would are attending their programs. And that's actually what happened.

[00:14:38] A lot of my first clients were women that were coming out of that program. It's genius. I mean, and it's it's built in. It's baked in right there, you know, and to be able to turn on it and pitch them and then have that index of clients that are already coming through.

[00:14:54] You know, and I'm not intimately I have heard about ladies who launch from previous times. I'm not sure what the current statute looks like, but it was almost the earliest forms of like the current day. I want to say, like accelerators and incubator programs, you know, where they kind of draw you through these this these techniques. But it was more of an earlier format, as I understand it, from. But your take on it and your approach to just re pitching it is just it's so astronomically powerful and also to catch people in their infancy, there's something about people that grab companies while they're young. It's a dynamic space. There's usually more room for creativity because they haven't locked into certain things. And also seeing that growth, those, you know, those lifetime colleagues and customers and things of that nature, it's it's one of the most rare forms, you know, to kind of bump into your company. And I love it. I love that you started there. You didn't tell us why yet. I'm going to ask you a little big girl. Tap the name.

[00:15:52] Where? That company. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess, like, I have this picture. I don't know. We got to eat bitches. Look at the logo. But that picture is like the logo is a picture of like the top of my head and like I'll throw but it's my baby picture of me actually that's illustrated. And the picture is like it was taken on my kindergarten graduation day. And I like sitting there with my hands on my head. And for whatever reason, it just made me whenever I look at that picture, it makes me feel strong in line. It makes me feel like, hey, you already know what you're doing, because when you're an entrepreneur, you're always second guessing yourself.

[00:16:36] And so, you know, having the like North Star of my business baked in to the title like that, you know, this I'm this little person, like this little business, this little person, you know.

[00:16:50] But I'm big. I'm a girl. And like, this is it. It was like it enabled me to like Bill to feel playful about the work and to also, like feel like I could do it, you know. So it was really just like a it was a nod to my own inner child and like in given her permission to do the work that I was doing.

[00:17:14] That's awesome. And it's a constant reminder. You know, you have the logo. I do like it. I like your art. Which is rare because I've been around way too long. And I do like I like the art. I like the name. It verges. It's like it's it's right on that line of like I'm going to love it or hate it.

[00:17:30] And I love it. It's like the dividing line, which is brave. Right off the bat, which I am.

[00:17:37] And I'm wondering. So the growth.

[00:17:39] Can you speak just kind of generally to the bro with the growth of a little bit girl from its soft launch from 2009, 2010 until now or right in 2020, pre covered 19 pandemic. Let's take that chunk.

[00:17:52] Yeah. So it's always been a fairly small business. I mean, I think we've never had over like five or six kinds at a time. You know, what we've done is like we we do projects. So residents like one of our recent projects were like around Afro punk when they launch their podcasts. So we will do a rollout like that or will be with a film from it's like festival premiere too. It's even Oscar can't be. So that could be like an 18 month window that a will on a project. And we also had some theaters like where we're worked with with a nonprofit like the Andrew Goodman Foundation. We work with them for a number of years around how their messaging to millennials and building internal capacity and programs within that organization that directly targeted millennial audiences. So it really, because of the nature of the work, you know, we we can be sustained by like several kind of ongoing contracts. And then, you know, some spurts, like some splits with projects that have a defined beginning and end. I would say. I mean, people use this word pejoratively, but I think, you know, it's.

[00:19:17] It's been like a lifestyle business, if you will, like, it hasn't been like on a huge growth trajectory or anything like that, but it's enabled me to sustain my my life and then it's enabled us to have folks, contractors and other folks who work with us. So that's nice.

[00:19:34] Yeah. It sounds like you can you can grow and shrink to clients needs with, like you mentioned, contractors and things of that nature. What would you say? The bulk of a large part of what you do for the majority of your clients is with the branding and the marketing and such a massive field. Are you handling social media campaigns? Are you developing imagery? Like what areas do you find yourself working most in?

[00:19:55] Sure. So the bulk of our work is actually around marketing. And what we're doing here. We're doing Web sites. We're joined on social media campaigns with jewelry, social media management.

[00:20:08] We also do an influence on marketing. We're just thinking about what typically will work in collaboration with an impact producer who is thinking about how to get that film out to different partners. And we're thinking about a while they're thinking about how to like how that film is a gauge in partners and communities and building community. We're thinking about how the how the film is engaging general audiences. What's the messaging or general audience?

[00:20:41] How do we target them on social? What sort of revenge should we do? Or the different influences that we should bring to the table? You know, what might we do with your partners? That could be a little bit more like audience specific and like talking about the film itself. So just really shaping the film or consumer already hoping to shape the film. What consumer audience in partnership with Impact Producers and Impress? Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts there. It's got to be really customizable, right? Depends on the project as to which area you push harder on to understand the film.

[00:21:19] I want to pivot right here since we're talking about, you know, film and cultural changes really quickly and talk about your book, which at first at first blush, when I went to buy it and look at it, I thought it was gonna be an adult book. I just didn't have any reference or anything else because the name for me, knowing that you were an entrepreneur and this founder, I had assumed it was almost going to be this How to Woman's Guide. I don't know, something like that. And so I was shocked to find a children's board book. And and I love it because I think it's so necessary and it's just beginning. What I see to be a new wave of children's books coming out, and I don't think we can get enough to them. And because it's not that long, I'm going to ask you to kind of walk us through. But it's called an ABC of equality. And it starts out with very it's very, very friendly, appropriate across all. Even the youngest children's ages. And it goes through the ABC and it starts to assign a value to each letter, a word value. And then it kind of enumerates on that. And it brings it into this societal like environment within a paragraph. And then it goes to the next letter.

[00:22:33] Is that correct, like observation of your description? I'm actually quite a description. I love that look. I love the idea. It's like I've never heard anyone describe it quite that way, that it assigns of value to each word and then enumerates and then like and it draws to society like I think is really a perfect description.

[00:22:55] Well, it's genius for me. That's exactly how young brains and audience members who have been listening to me for a couple of years now know I have four children and I knew nothing about educating children.

[00:23:11] But when I started having them, there were no classes taken. But what you learn very quickly is that you have to place things in a value in an environment. You can't just hold something up and say orange and drop it, because the next thing you pick up, they'll be like orange. There's no way you need to kind of describe what you're saying. And that's what this does. It takes very philosophical concepts about, you know, important terms that are difficult citizenship or something like that, you know, where you can kind of like those are deep terms and empathy or those kinds of words. And you have to put them in an environment and really relate them back in. And that's exactly what the book does. It's everything that the exact pedagogical lens, if you will, about teaching children about global citizenship and responsibility and empathy and compassion and diversity and all of these transparency and all of these things that we look at and dida of describing this to a six year old brain. And it really does that beautifully. I think it's so remarkable. And I'm wondering, what was the impetus for that for you? What was the philosophy?

[00:24:12] I'm just I'm truly honored. I just to say I'm truly honored and. That you've really, really got it. I like I'm just like, honestly, I'm like taking a moment that is like really, really gone. And so thank you so much for spending time with it. So to the first thing I like to tell people is that it actually was an opportunity that came to me. So I'm a I'm not a religious person, but I am I have just to give you a sense of like how woo woo I could be I have a Monday sessions that I do right now with a group of friends that it's called Let's Get Metaphysical. Like like how would you like to be meaning that like there's work that you do but there's also you need to leave space for the universe. Leave a leave space for just magic to happen. Right. And the this book was literally one of those open spaces that just dropped in my lap. I literally looked in my own my in my inbox one day in twenty eighteen and there was a note from a publisher that said, hey, are you interested in writing a children's book. And I was like, like, OK. I had to look them up to see if this was real. I actually thought it was what it is like spam emails. And I looked him up. They were real prolific publisher of children's content. So then it became like, well, why me? You know, because, you know, you have to the whole, like, insecurity around like why I didn't write it positioned myself as an author. But actually, I've been calling myself a storyteller my entire life. So it it it makes sense. But I was it because I didn't actually actively pursue it. It felt like. Can I step into this moment? Can I do this? And so they have the idea. They were like, you know, we want to do a children's book about equality and we want to know if you would like. This is something that you'd be interested in. And so we had some conversations. And it was like, yes, I will do this. Like, let's do it. And so in terms of the construction of the book, it is for children. But like, if you can, I think that it's. My idea when writing it was that it was going to be a book that parents were going to read to their children. So for me, I was always thinking about that first audience, which is the parent. You know, I was thinking about not necessarily. It was like, how does a parent think about how to talk about these times in the simplest way possible? And so that is the way I approach the book. And I think about it as a bit of like cultural instigation, cultural intervention, you know, cultural inspiration. You know, like I want parents to look at the book and be like, wow, I can do this. I can think about how I am thinking about belief and race and xenophobia. You know, it's a lot of the words or words that you may not even like.

[00:27:31] But before writing the book, I might have known all these terms just intuitively because as an adult.

[00:27:37] But I didn't know if you had asked me before, like how to quickly describe xenophobia, like I would, you know, like I would have kind of told you this large, you know, big conversational piece, but I wouldn't be able to drill down.

[00:27:53] And so it's like, how do you drill down on the term, on the conversation and then be in conversation with yourself?

[00:28:01] But also do children around these ideas was and that's delivered.

[00:28:05] You know, it's awesome because that's how I received it. And when I when I read it to my child, that was exactly it. And it was such a sigh of relief, because even when you do have those conversations, you know, about my seven year old said, what's the stock market?

[00:28:21] And I was like, oh, my, breaking this down.

[00:28:25] Like, there's so many turns and systems we live under in this society. And even then, the more theoretical, you know, what is what is honesty, what is valiante like, those types of things you go to to find them. And it's very interpersonal and it changes throughout life. And you end up having this dialog with their eyes spinning. And so it's just so nice to see someone that's had that conversation and written down this various distinct narrative about some of those terms, especially the negative ones, you know, and having like a very honest rhetoric without getting too brutal. It's it's tricky. It just is. You know, I'm find much more comfort in those subject matters in higher academia where you can kind of just let it go, you know, and just throw everything at the wall. But with young minds, that is the true annexation, you know, between those concepts in that Terramin honesty and gentility being provided even in the explanation. So I love it. I want to pivot now and look at Geni, and I know it's in a transitional moment for you, and I love that. And so I want you to first describe for everyone what Jenie is the company and when it was launched and what it originally did.

[00:29:34] Yeah. So just another word about the book. Oh, yes. No, look, just because earlier you were like the expectation as an entrepreneur is that you do like a business book. Right. But I've now started to see this book as a foundational text for entry for entering my world, you know, and that like, you know, the way I'm the way I've set up my life, the little the way I have set up the work that I do. And my interests are all around this idea as of like being a cultural adds, cultural instigation and of like difference being something that should be embraced and as a point of connection versus as a point of Dubai. Right. And so I think that book does a good job of kind of laying out the way in which I see, like, that lens that, like identity and difference are literally saves that you as a human being, you should lean into and utilize for your own personal growth.

[00:30:44] And utilize your own personal curiosity, you know, and as a means of connecting with others. It's not something that, you know, we should run away from. It's like we should totally embrace. Expanding our lens are vocabulary around how we describe ourselves. Our vocabulary around how we engage each other. You know, we should totally embrace that. There's enough space for all of us, you know, and that if we create equitable, you know, equal and equitable spaces, that doesn't mean that I lose, but that there's actually a lot of space, you know.

[00:31:25] And so that's you know, I wanted to kind of like clarify that a bit because lots of.

[00:31:30] They love that. They get that take. I wish that was mine. You're like, here's my intro. It's not an entrepreneurial guide. It's a children's book. It's so easy and it ties beautifully.

[00:31:39] And with your logo. Like, it's all a theme about you. This return to identifying as, you know, this strong young child and things like that. I love all of that. The wisdom within children. You've got this this environment going that's very copacetic to itself. You know, I really do love that. I mean, I'm going to say it a ton and a ton.

[00:32:00] I can't wait for people to write. It's going to be the right time for your book. Yeah.

[00:32:05] Unpacking, Jeannie. Yeah. Yep. So aware that you do use a lot with genius. Right.

[00:32:12] So Jeannie is like about the.

[00:32:15] It started off with the idea of the genius and genius, the like magic of black women. That was like, you know, the play on that. Right. And the idea is that, like, you know how to be the original hypothesis was like there are all these like small businesses that exist, like, you know, think about the Etsy business or think about like the e-commerce business. They don't really have that many platforms for sharing their products. Like, what would be how could you do that? I was really interested in that piece. And then the other piece of ground celebrating the stories of black women before. I started doing this thing called Michelle a brunch for fun. We started that, like, literally. That was I think. Yeah. That was 2009. And it was really when Michelle Obama and Kate Lightstone round her inauguration.

[00:33:17] When she got into the white White House right now, I was so excited about her and her new sort of model that was on the public stage.

[00:33:27] You know what a black woman could be like a new black shoe starting a new mythology. Really? And so I developed this brunch series. Just kind of celebrating her. But also, we would have different women like, you know, little Oprah is a little Michelle's, you know, would cure rate the brunches and tell their stories, share their leadership techniques. And we did that in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania did for a number of years, about five or six years. And it was just for fun. Like, literally, we're not even we would never make any money off of it, would we? Would pay to whatever you paid to attend the brunch was what would cover expenses. So we got about like 2014. So while I think five or six years and I was like, you know, could this be something like. Is there clearly you're interested in this, you know, women's entrepreneurship piece like ladies who launch it is just this other narrative that you see strand in your life. Could this be a thing? And I looked at the subscription box model and I was like, well, what if we package that branch? Like, we gave you the inspiration, the product recommendations, the storytelling, and we could ship it to you, you know? And so that's that's the that was the genesis behind Cheaney box. And it's always a subscription box company that we launched in 2016.

[00:34:51] The idea was that we'd have little Oprah's little Michel's in there.

[00:34:55] Everything would have a different woman curate the blogs featuring our favorite products. So we'll do two things. One, you know, increased the visibility of these influential women and their stories and the way to increase the sales capacity of small businesses by diverse, by diverse founders. And so we did that until like our last box shipped just last year. So just about three years.

[00:35:23] I'm not uninterrupted. Mind you, like, there was plenty of challenges in that business, you know, ship monthly, like I would have loved to. It was, again, another self-funded endeavor. I was using the money from Little Big Girl to support Cheaney box. And, you know, we we didn't really go out for funding until last year because, you know, one of the things that we realized early on. Hey, people would consider this to be a niche audience. So they're not going to necessarily want to back this company based on the fact that we're dealing with a niche audience. And so we didn't get a little bit of angel funding last year through a pipeline. Angels, who is a you know, I can't recommend them enough for anyone who is thinking about doing, you know, doing an unofficial raise for their for their startup pipeline. Angels is a group of women, of women and non binary folks who invest in women, a non binary folks. And they invest in. Scalable companies. But they also invested in like say like a food and beverage or fashion business. It doesn't have to always be bigger. Hi, Wolf. Tech company. So people should look into pipelining deals. But all that to say is, you know, we got to the end of last year and we thought about, OK, you know, where do we go from here?

[00:36:52] So this is even before albeit, you know, we're like, no, we're doing this for a little bit. Our margins have been really small. You know, there are so few opportunities here that we see in the business model. One was we noticed this big it became an advertising channel for larger companies who were interested in doing multicultural marketing. They wanted to do advertising. We noticed that. We also noticed that we were, you know, providing a discovery vehicle where consumers who wanted to shop their values, who wanted to shop from women, diverse folks who wanted to be able to have an easy way of doing that. So we knew that it was kind of serving those two needs in the marketplace. And so we just kind of like, could there be a bigger business model, you know, such that our margins, our margins would be healthier? And also, there were you know, we could develop a hardware company. And so we've been on that Kivett journey for about six months now. And we are near ready to release our of NBP version of the new model. But I can't say exactly what that will look like. But I think you could tell from the two problems that we're trying to solve, which is, you know, creating an opportunity for diverse business owners to reach consumers and also create an opportunity for larger brands to connect with multicultural consumers.

[00:38:33] So, you know, it you know, we're building a marketplace around those two ideas and you'll see more in the coming months.

[00:38:42] Yeah, that's a good teaser. That's exciting anyway. I like that. And anyone who is who is wanting to follow that, like we should definitely. Do you have a favorite social media platform that people who are Twitter.

[00:38:53] Yeah, Twitter. Instagram. I've been a little quiet or both.

[00:38:56] But like Twitter. Instagram. What are your handles?

[00:38:59] Also at China, you go so that CIJ and EWR energy.

[00:39:05] Cool. Yeah. That's awesome. I can't wait for a good launch, especially right now because nobody is launching when they said they would. So anyone who is going to I'm like, no problem. I'll wait.

[00:39:15] I'm wondering where I'm going to pivot now and kind of wrap everything up. I know that everyone's dialog has changed and some for better and some for worse in some. Just because you know, but this time for reflection that you had your first, you know, layoff in 2009 and people have kind of globally experienced or that's where the people I've spoken to that women female identified non binary individuals over the past three months have kind of said, I've taken the time with this forced isolation to really have a dialog with myself about my company, about my happiness level, things that they just weren't taking the space and holding the platform to do. And so I find this next question to be fascinating because it changed for a lot of people. It changed back. It never stayed the same. So I'm wondering, can you tell us anything about your goals for the next one to three years, given your endeavors and what change has taken place over the past couple of months with those goals?

[00:40:11] Yeah, so I think the biggest change is taking place for me during this pandemic has really been around centering myself first and foremost to my life in a way that I have not done ever like literally like I am for the first time in my life.

[00:40:29] Cookie lets you out there like, you know, like I just think it's the like biggies.

[00:40:37] I'm just so you know, I'm so. Excited by the fact that I'm finally cooking like this. So this is a major step in the right direction around like how I want to and I'm not doing it every day. Like, you know, there's some type like maybe once or twice a week or a really bad week. I might order out. But I, I have developed a new habit around cooking and shoveling a shadow. Hello, Fresh. They're not giving me any money, but like, hello fresh has been fantastic because they send you meals and then they send you all the ingredients and then you cook the food. Right. And they give you recipes is a really great way for novice cookers. But I guess the reason why I say that is because my my large goal is now to operate concentrically like I am, like I want to operate from the inside of me outwardly and before. I think my entire career I've been and I think this happens to most people, most entrepreneurs, most like every all of us. I was just so like caught up in what people think about me. How am I coming off to the general public comic, coming off to my friends, to clients, to investors like so invested in, you know, and what that might mean for my business. Right. And now I'm like. It doesn't matter. It starts with me. Right. And I truly believe that and I truly have seen that in a way that I haven't seen before. So my biggest goal is to hold that hold on to keeping myself centered and central in my own life and listening to my own wisdom and my own advice around how to take care of myself. So that's my first and foremost goal. Second to that is continuing to build and grow the communities that I have nurtured before the pandemic, but definitely within this space. So one one one such example is that like I created on a peer group of other entrepreneurs and we meet every Saturday around developing our business such that we continue their survive and also thrive post pandemic.

[00:43:04] And so I think that, you know, creating community creating team for my businesses are like my kind of.

[00:43:16] My money like immediate goals, you know, like. And then in terms of like, well, you know, I would love to see Cheaney skill to like, you know, hundreds of thousands of customers survey, you know, tons of, like, entrepreneurs.

[00:43:35] So but really, it is about like this operate a concentrically it's more like a value-based school level. Yeah. Well done. Materializes too.

[00:43:45] That's so great. Such a visual for me. For some reason as well. I picture all of those the maps that you start off of with a problem or meditation maps and kind of go out. Do you know at the end you figured yourself out or even the other way.

[00:43:59] But you're always trying to reach the center of one's self in that work. It's a great it's a great goal. I love it. And it's it's so, so different from those that I've heard recently. And I'm a wrap everything up today with a question about advice that I pose to every person I speak with. And I'm curious if a young woman or female identified or non binary individual, essentially anyone other than a white man walked up to you tomorrow and said, listen, I know I've had this history, had this dream. I wanted to get into writing. I was going to do film work. I came to New York and I wanted to get all of these things done. I'm keeping my mind open. I'm looking at it from every different angle. I'm doing different things and think I'm going to start my first company right now. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?

[00:44:54] So the concrete piece of it is get a bookkeeper and accountant early on. So so, again, the peace around that is basically get people on your team that you know, that are not your skill sets. So even if you can't necessarily hire it, you can't necessarily bring on folks as employees, figure out a way to get folks around you that are not your core skill set.

[00:45:30] So if that's like, you know, trying to find a friend's mother who's also a bookkeeper or it's like, you know, trying to find an intern who can who's an MBA, who's a CFO, you know, working that way to be a big guy.

[00:45:46] I don't know. Find a way to surround yourself with people who who have disciplines that are not at all. So that would be one. If you're about to start a business and the disciplines that are not your own, that really impact your business could be like five years we go, you know. Yeah. Like any of those sort of domains, they may not be your, quote, core competencies. So that's one. Two is. Follow your your inspirations, you know, like really follow them. I love Toby was the founder of Shopify story is like, you know, he was into snowboarding and gaming. You know, the gaming taught him how to become a coder. And then snowboarding was like, oh, I want to go to snowboard shop. So in those two things, he then built, like his shop was e-commerce platform that he, for Guilford's own shop, was so good that it was like, OK, well, maybe we can build this for, you know, millions of shops, you know. And that became Shopify. So I was like, how do you not like if you had not followed his interests, he would it be Amazon's competitor today? You know, to me. Yes. So it's like, so follow your interest.

[00:47:05] Even if they don't seem like they make a lot of sense or they don't necessarily or they're not traditional just following interests. And the third thing is build a community, stay connected to community, you know, at all levels. So you know what you want visors. So people who are a few head few years ahead of you or have some who've done what it is that you're that you're doing or think that you might want to do, you want peers, you know, so you want people who are right in the trenches, trenches with you. You want friends who don't have anything to do with what you're doing, maybe. And you want mentees. So you want like you want to grill 360 degree community around you as you build out your vision.

[00:48:02] Yeah, I love those. It's true. And you kind of cover every aspect that I think is really important when you are starting out.

[00:48:08] So I've got, number one, get a good bookkeeper or an accountant, meaning get people on your team that have skill sets other than your own that you're going to need never to follow your inspiration. And number three, build and stay connected to your community because those are the people you're gonna be functioning in. I love that. And I think it's so true. And those approaches, everything from all angles. And Chana, we are out of time today. But I want to say thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time. I know that everybody's firing on all cylinders right now, and I really appreciate your candor and your time and all of your rhetoric and story today. This is a complete pleasure, Patricia.

[00:48:51] I really appreciate your thoughtful questions and the time you spent with me today. Absolutely. It was my pleasure. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with China, Janelle Ewing. You can find out more about her and all of her endeavors on her Web site.

[00:49:06] Chana Ewing, that is C, h a n a e w i n g dot com. Thank you for giving us your time today. Thank you for listening.

[00:49:16] And please stay safe. Stay well. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. It's lunch.

View Details

Today I am chatting with Beth Noymer Levine. Coaching people to use their brains before their mouths is the sole focus of Beth’s work at SmartMouth Communications. After more than a decade in PR, IR, and Corporate Communications in New York and Atlanta, Beth established SmartMouth in Salt Lake City in 2005 to offer Speaker Coaching, Presentation Skills Training, Media Readiness™ Training, and related services.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:06] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia.

[00:01:07] And today I am sitting down with best Beth Noymer Levine. She is the founder and principal at Smart Mouth Communications. You can find out more online at w w w dot smart mouth communications dot com. Welcome Beth.

[00:01:22] Thank you, Patricia. It's good to be there.

[00:01:24] Yes, absolutely. I'm excited to kind of climb through what you've done. I just discovered that both of us have had a tenure in Salt Lake City, Utah. So I'm excited to get into that for everyone listening. I will read a bio on Beth. But before doing that, a quick trajectory of today's podcast, the roadmap, if you will. It's going to follow the same as all of us in this series. Namely, we will look at unpacking Beth's academic background and early professional life before turning our efforts towards and packing smart mouth communications and other current endeavors that Beth has going on. She's got an IOS and Android app I'd like to look at, as well as a suite of communications and presentation skill courses offered. And then we'll turn our efforts towards looking at goals that best may have for the next one to three years regarding her companies and work endeavors. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that Beth has for those of you who are either looking to get involved in what she's doing or perhaps emulate some of her career success. A quick bio on Beth before I start peppering her with questions. Coaching people to use their brains before their mouth is the sole focus of Beth Levine's work as smart mouth communications. After more than a decade in P.I. and PR I. R and corporate communications in New York and Atlanta. Beth established Smart Mouth in Salt Lake City in 2005 to offer speaker coaching, presentation, skills training, media readiness training and related services. Beth is the author of the award winning book Jock Talk Five Communication Principles for Leaders, as exemplified by Legends of the Sports World. She is also the creator of the IOS app, as well as the now Android app Smart Mouth Community, Smart Mouth, public speaking tool kit and a suite of communication and presentation skills courses offered online through open sesame, dot com and g o one dot com. Beth has lectured and taught at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth and the University of Utah and New York University in 2015. Beth was one of Utah Business magazine's 30 women to watch. She has been featured in Forbes Harvard Business Review, the BBC, The Wall Street Journal and is a regular contributor to Forbes.com. So, Beth, that's fantastic. I know you join a huge legendary list of people we've actually spoken to that contributes regularly to Forbes.com. And I love that. I love everything that you're doing right now, too. But before we get into unpacking some of that, I'm wondering if you can draw us just a quick platform of what your academic life and early professional life that brought you to smart mouth communications was like.

[00:04:03] OK, thanks for Tricia. Yeah. So I actually have a degree in economics with a minor in German, and I got that at Franklin and Marshall College in Pennsylvania and went to work in New York right after college. And a little known story is that my very first colleague in New York was a guy named Barack Obama. And we shared an office and went over Wang Computer Terminal and the telephone, the Wang computer terminal actually dates us. Wait a minute. Because they they owned the market and then just faded out quickly. And at the time, I thought I wanted to be a writer and editor. And that's what Barack and I were doing. We were working for a company called Business International, but was a research publishing and consulting firm for multinational corporations. You know, it's a sort of something I don't share often, but it's sort of a fun little tidbit. And it allowed me to have a real life lesson for my kids when I was raising them to say, you really need to be nice to everyone because you never know who's gonna be the leader of the free world. Right. So and then I eventually worked my way in New York to different communications roles on Wall Street. So I did public relations for financial institutions and I did investor relations also for financial institutions and other publicly traded companies. And it was during those years when I was very young and. Pairing investment bankers, their corporate clients and people who are very smart and successful for interviews with the media, presentations in front of investors. And I remember feeling like it was second nature to me. But it seemed to be so appreciated by them and they couldn't figure out find their way through a paper bag to a clear and concise message. And I remember making a note to self that this by itself could be a business someday. So that's sort of the. Germ of where the idea for Smart Mouth came from was those guys on Wall Street, which were very exciting days because it was the 80s and there were deals galore and initial public offerings and hostile takeovers and all kinds of mergers and acquisitions and things going on. It was quite, quite a time.

[00:07:04] Yeah, very changing time. Lot of lawsuits coming up. Lot of interesting things happening, particularly on Wall Street.

[00:07:12] I'm interested in this idea of like refining one's message, because I do think that that started to take off, particularly as people started to re understand the idea of branding, which is a term I don't feel like was really heavily discussed outside of the, you know, Madison Avenue moment in the mainstream until about the early 90s and then not even heavily until the early aughts. It sounds like you were there as this concept of branding and, you know, refining one's message and kind of really honing in on the clarity and that reaching into branding was right when you were there. Do you feel like you were on the beginning of understanding what is now perceived as branding, even as personal branding or things like that, as you were doing these kinds of techniques and systems of helping people train their media professionals?

[00:08:05] That's such an interesting question and why we could go into a very deep dove. One of the interesting things that I want to share is that when I first started Smart Mouth. Fifteen years ago, I and I would train either professional athletes or Olympians. It was always a media training and it was geared toward training them to speak to the traditional media report. Television reporters, newspaper reporters in the last. I'm going to say it's been at least six years or more since I've done that with athletes. I worked with a lot of Olympic athletes. I have a ton of corporate clients also. But with the athletes in particular who are, you know, young and ambitious, I've turned that traditional media training session into a personal branding session because they are responsible for most of their own media coverage through social media. And so, you know, I've I've I've sort of come to the two thousand tens plus to answer your question that. Yes, very much so. It is a branding thing. If I were to look back at the messaging we did in the 80s and the early 90s, I would say that, you know, it's funny. Branding was a term on Madison Avenue at the time. And the the political arena version of that was spin. And I can't remember the guy's name, but he was a press secretary for Bill Clinton. And he called spin a self-interested selection of facts. And so to that extent, we were engaging in spin on Wall Street for sure. And then, yes, I think all of that morphed into branding. And for a very long time, I've been telling clients these messages that we're creating for you. These are your verbal. This is your verbal branding. So the simple answer to your question is yes, but it's been a morphing and an evolution over time and to the point where I don't bother with media training anymore. I just work on personal branding with one on one clients.

[00:10:42] Yeah. Well, and that's I mean, that's was trained into the industry. I'm not sure the industry had had a say in that.

[00:10:49] You know, the advent of social media exaggerates, trumped every part of it. Doesn't matter what, you know, damage control campaign you were putting out there. So I think something we all engaged in and I'm wondering. So you launched in 2005. You kind of mentioned the beginning of smart mouth communications. I'm wondering if you can walk us through some of the nuts and bolts of the beginning times. Were you the sole founder? Did you take investment? Did you bootstrap? How was the first year of growth? I know that the the platforms that you changed on, as you just described, took on this think life and change. But in the beginning times, what were the logistics like?

[00:11:28] So the beginning of Smart Mouth was what I thought was just my latest harebrained idea in a long string of hair brained ideas. I was it was 2005. I had moved from the East Coast where I had established myself personally and career wise for my entire life. I had moved from Atlanta to Salt Lake City in nineteen ninety eight. So 2005 was seven ish years later. And I had been at at home with my children for about. I'm going to say 10 years, give or take a year or so, so smart mouth was actually my career reentry strategy from motherhood.

[00:12:23] And it worked.

[00:12:25] And I was doing it in a city where I had no network, no relationships professionally, no relationships from school or college or anything. I knew some parents through Little League brat preschool classes and things like that. So in that regard, it was incredibly challenging. And I you know, I have never forgotten that there were a couple of dads that I knew through Little League and basketball for my son, who is my oldest, who heard that I had started this business and gave me a shot. And one of them was the president of the Utah Jazz, the NBA team at the time.

[00:13:22] And I you know, we've often talked.

[00:13:26] I've often said to him, I don't know why or how you gave me a chance. I was just a mom in the stands with little kids running around. And. And another guy was in advertising and had a lot of clients. And they were two of my earliest clients. So this pardon me, a big fish for our first client. Yes. Well, my actually my very first big client was the U.S. ski team. And right when I started the smart mouth, I saw that they had put out an RFP for somebody to do media training for the athletes. And but I don't think these other guys knew that I had done that. But I was competing. I was invited to make a presentation to the executive committee and the board to get this bid. And I was competing with a worldwide public relations firm and a woman in North Carolina who had decades of media training experience with athletes alone. And I knew that I couldn't bring in PowerPoint that showed anything because I had nothing. So what I did instead to pitch the business and myself to the executive committee and board was I decided to go in there and give them the training that I would give to the athletes. So I sold myself by offering them the experience that they would be buying. And I got the business. So they were actually my first big client.

[00:15:18] That's excellent. It's a clever take on it as well. You know, kind of shaking things up like that. I remember in my youth, prior to photography and film, working for a billion dollar architectural firm in San Francisco. And going into pitches that, you know, for basic city scaping, essentially these Australian dollar projects. And. And my boss would say flip off or flip on the lights because everyone was running these power points. Right. Exactly. And he would say, turn on the lights. And I would turn on the lights. And it was just this this kind of you know, you had this kind of look at me moment and it shocked everyone else. But I, I tell you, it worked so many times. It's ridiculous to get tunes of billions of dollars. And so I like this kind of leg, you know. Quick attention getting devices that kind of flip people into thinking like that's clever in the consideration that it does, it takes a lot of uniqueness.

[00:16:16] Well, at the time, it was sort of more out of desperation, but it turned out to be a stroke of genius. And I continued to do it after that because it they were just floored, right. That the lights were on and they were being asked to do things. Yeah. And so I have used it since. And it. Yeah. So it turned out to be you know, one of those necessity is the mother of invention type of moments.

[00:16:43] Absolutely. That in bravery. I'm wondering when you so you started out you've had this growth with how you advise your clients as trends to shift mainly into this personal branding, which takes place largely in social media as it does the world over, I think, for a lot of that majority of clients anyway. People in different industries and wondering the ethos of the company, did that change the philosophy behind it? I'm always interested in people in communications companies because the advent of the social media platform and things like that did not really no one really saw it coming, certainly not the utility and the impact that it would happen so quickly within the five years from the aughts to 2005 to 2010. But I'm wondering if your company and the ethos behind it changed or did you have a really you fine tune? That's what you do for your clients, right? You funnel out and siphon out these very tinctures, moments of brand and things like that. You yourself for smart mouth communications. Did you have a very crystallized brand and did that have to change with the change of your platform?

[00:17:48] So I would say if this is an interesting question, because I've reflected on it especially lately, when I think I for my business and most people for their businesses are considering pivoting. Right. Because we've got such a an unusual set of circumstances in front of us. I would say that for the first five years of smart mouth. I was probably 70 doing 70 percent media training, and then that morphed into personal branding and 30 percent presentation skills training or public speaking coaching, and the coaching is usually done one on one. And the presentation skills training is usually done in groups and. After the first five years, and I think this does coincide with exactly what you were saying about the onset of social media and how it literally swooped in and took over, there were far fewer requests for media training. Far fewer at all. Or personal branding and way more requests for. Please help our people be concise. Please help them stay on point. Please help them know what a mess, how to use it. And so the evolution became that the presentation skills training I was doing became about 70 percent of the business and media training became more 30 percent, with adding still sandwiched in the middle. When branding is always part of it, because even when a client, an individual client and I coach on the C suite level and then presentation skills training for the groups is done at a usually a medium to high level within the company. But they'll come to me with what they think are their messaging platforms or or a series of messages. And I do challenge that. You know that as a as just an anecdote to digress for a second, when I have worked with a nonprofit executive who says one of their messages is we make a difference. I literally go berserk on them. If you have a nonprofit and that's the best you can say and the best you can do, which is the most trite commonly and I would say overused statement if they don't have something better to describe their work and the difference their work makes than, you know, we've got all we've really got to dig in and do better. But so I do I poke and prod a lot. I don't let people get away with trite Kofman or really used phrases and message points.

[00:21:05] Yeah, well, and hence their clarity of message, hopefully yielding in something to their bottom line.

[00:21:12] I'm wondering, with the IRS and Android app, Smart Mouth public speaking tool kit, can you kind of unpack that or enumerate the utility of it or what it is for everyone listening? And also, when did it come to be in existence with your company?

[00:21:27] OK. I would love to unpack it because I think it's probably for a and I do still charge for it. It's a dollar ninety nine in the Google Play store. And also I saw the app is a combination of lessons, kind of like how there's a how to section but and various tips and strategies and ideas, everything from how you want to organize your thoughts on your content to how to manage your nerves. But it's the functionality of the app that really is a standout. And believe it or not, it was built about seven or eight years ago. I mean, this is actually an old app. But a couple of highlights of the functionality are that you can go in to what's called the speech builder section and. Using the prompts and dropdown buttons, you fill in the blanks to answer this series of questions, and it produces the outline for a presentation. And the outline is based on some proprietary methodology that we've developed at Smart Mouth Communications. And it's how to organize your thoughts and your material in a way that work for people's attention spans and their ability to retain and which is, I think, something that is all too often forgotten by speakers, presenters. They you know, they're told what the topic is. They're invited into the room. They're the subject matter expert. And yay! They just go about sharing their expertize without really thinking about the audience. It could be the 10 millionth time the speaker has gone over this material, but it's usually the first time the audience is hearing it. And so this idea of really knowing how to shape and present your material in a way that works for the audience is absolutely key. And that's the smart mouth methodology. And so this speech builder inside the app, like literally prompts the user to create an outline that they can then email to themselves. They can duplicate it. And so that they can adapt it for a different audience. There are all kinds of functions within that. And the outline just sets them on their way to a great speech or great presentation.

[00:24:22] Yeah, it's amazing. I think that there are a lot of this doesn't get discussed in us. Everyone talks about in communications and at building in particular, how it's burned and dead and gone in two years. However, like good code or good theory and evergreen content sticks around. And it sounds like that's what this is. Because even though the platforms have advanced and things have come out and the new darlings of the platforms, those change daily. Don't get me started on the new trends. Instagram's out. Pinterest is in like everybody's got. These continue to do. And within that kind of hyper frenetic community. You still have these evergreen content truth, which is you still need concise, accurate, eloquent speech building and things like that. And so things like this would make sense to stay around. It sounds fascinating to I can't wait to get on and buy it.

[00:25:11] Blowing is something that I know it actually sort of is. You know, it's funny because I so I built it about I'm going to say it was seven or eight years ago it came out and I was thinking it would be great. I used it with client groups. I had them loaded on their phones. And and then eventually I had to build the Google wanted to my developers at the time when we first started, said to me, oh, gosh, no one's going to no one uses an ad for it. Well, that's not entirely true. So we build out the Google version. But the interesting thing was I sort of just let it do its thing. You know, I would occasionally recommend it to a client group to buy if they wanted to do there. We do a lot of interactive exercises if they want us to do it. Me up. And then one day, about a year, year and a half ago, I realized, oh, my gosh, I get money deposited into the Smart Money account monthly from Apple and Google. This is this thing has legs. This has been years. This has legs.

[00:26:28] So there have been a variety of kind of startups that I've.

[00:26:36] Sort of explored whether or not they could use the intellectual property and build it out further, and that's an that's an exploration.

[00:26:45] I'm still in no way will everyone. You heard it here. Beth is exploring acquisition of some sort.

[00:26:50] So, um, you know, allow me to be the matchmaker that facilitates that contact. Smart mouth communications, if you're looking for that tech, which everybody should be. That's such a beautiful addition to anyone in that space, in branding and in personal branding development or even higher level, you know, corporate branding development. It could be modified towards so many different sectors.

[00:27:15] I'm not one of the ideas. What started it for me was I thought, you know, in something like Slack or teams, they should have a presentation collaboration tool and this would be the intellectual property for that. So I went to a good client of mine. That's a very large West Coast venture capital firm. And I said, what do you think? And he said to me. I think you're not even a rounding error and you're better off looking for something that's newer starting out that really could use the, you know, the head start on your intellectual property. So gentle attached to it. I. I know. I love honesty, though. So it was OK.

[00:28:06] I do too. Yeah, I do too. Well, honesty can be laced with fire or bunnies, as my grandmother always said. You know, it depends on how you want to package it. I'm wondering the suite of communications and presentation skills and the courses that you offer. I'm assuming those are online. And then I wonder if they were kind of born out of the app because it sounds like it's kind of an extension of that. It's kind of getting into these, like, courses that drag you through this process, just like it kind of extracts the speech out of you with the app. You know, and you have described the course is a little bit more and the things that come of it.

[00:28:43] Yeah, some of those I developed in 2016, which now seems like a really long time ago. And the idea behind those was to expand on the app and merge in the. What I tend to deliver in a training when I'm in the room with a group of people. And it was an idea to scale my ability to reach people and give them the presentation, skills training and the tools they needed without people having to put seats and butt butts in seats. Excuse me.

[00:29:22] And so I used to host the courses on my own on my Web site.

[00:29:30] But to be honest, we found with my small staff, we found that we were providing an awful lot of tech support. So we put it on open sesame go one dot com, which is a fast growing platform for professional development and personal development courses. And we had a few months before the pandemic were loading them onto you, Timmy's business site. And they are on there. They're really behind right now in their review and approval process. So we're waiting to get onto you to me as well.

[00:30:11] Well, they exploded, you know as well. I thought I was like fringe when I was, like, having my 10 year old son learn how to program his first program on you to me. And all of the sudden, I think I heard it like cast upon like it at a coffee shop right before the pandemic. It was like, let's I'm no longer leading that wave. But, yeah, it's those platforms. I mean, and Facebook started to compete with that. You know, they're really trying to get everyone to host their courses and things through there, which is a monopoly unto itself. But there's a lot of opportunity out there and different platforms that kind of cater to, I think, different industries and utility of depending on the populations you're trying to serve with what you're doing. So that's interesting. And yeah, you too. Me, I can't wait to find out what you think about that after you if you do the over. I'm wondering it sounds like we're kind of already dodging or slipping into the goals, which is my very next question. What are your goals for Smart Mouth Communications and its apps and all of its services for the next one, two, three years in taking into consideration the Cauvin 19 pandemic that swept over the world? Have you shifted things for the entire company or just some of the immediate goals?

[00:31:24] So I would answer that by saying that I am going to gauge that based on what my client's goals are. So I have a lot of clients in tech. And there's a huge tech and very active, successful, robust tech quarter in Utah that not a lot of people know about, but have a lot of clients there and a lot of other corporate clients. I have clients on the East Coast as well. And to be honest, Patricia, I feel like it would be arrogant for me, too, or presumptuous for me to set goals before I finish sort of surveying them. And I've been talking to. Last week I had conversations with two of them. This week, I'm going to have another two conversations. And these are with the larger clients who consistently, you know, we renew over and over. What I'm hearing from a few people is that there will be an indefinite moratorium on gathering in conference rooms. Which is interesting. So my own thought process is that I'm going to need to go virtual. I love being in a room with people. I love feeding off the energy of the groups and the individuals I meet and talk with. But I think that I'm going to need to shift it to more of a virtual delivery, which is easy to do with one on one clients. Obviously, Zoom's is an incredible platform for that. And I you know, it's funny, I've been using Zoom's for probably two or three years and used to be clients would say to me, well, I have Skype, can't we Skype? And I would say, well, Zoom's better if you just don't mind getting on zoom. Zoom is a household word and a verb and all of that that I. I am looking at different options and different platforms for delivering trainings, virtually live trainings virtually. So we'll see. It's challenging, but I'm waiting to hear more from my clients before I decide exactly what the pivot will look like if there is a pivot.

[00:33:52] Absolutely. Is there any works in the apps? Are you are you can just keep that evergreen content as it. Have you ever thought of developing another app?

[00:34:00] No, I'm going to keep that as is for now. I hope that's how it works. The methodology really works for people. And I you know, I sometimes run in to former clients five years later and they'll say, oh, my gosh, you have totally changed the way I communicate in business. And, you know, I'm still using map Avrum, still using your approach to, you know. So that's very rewarding and gratifying.

[00:34:29] Absolutely. It sounds like I'd like an outline concept that, you know, stays with one's brain even when they're not using it anymore. I'm wondering I'm going to wrap everything up today with asking about advice. And I like this piece most because it should always be changing. And given the current climate and everything that's going on for everyone, I think it changes a great deal daily. But I'm curious if you did this podcast was developed for female female identified non binary individuals, pretty much everyone other than white men. And not because I don't adore everyone on this Earth, but because we've done a lot of effort towards that area. So I'm wondering if an individual of a female form identified or non binary origin came up to you tomorrow and said, listen, Beth, I've had this career that took place on the East Coast, Wall Street communications and things of that nature. I went off. I had a family. It took some time, took a breather, getting ready to launch my company and get my feet wet. And I'm just gonna see how it goes. It's a reentry moment for me. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual?

[00:35:35] Knowing what you know now, that's a good one. I would say that, you know, an idea I haven't very often talked about the fact that Smart Mouth was my career reentry strategy after taking time off for motherhood. But I think it's something I should talk about more, because I think a lot of women write themselves off after they've had a long break. And what I did at the time was I just read a lot. I went back to school. I went to the Tuck School at Dartmouth for a host MBA certification, which means that it's a mini MBA program based for people who either had an MBA and hadn't used it in a while or had MBA level experience. And that's where I qualified. So then that refreshed my vocabulary and perspective and gave me new ideas and new ways of thinking to help sort of dust off the cobwebs. So I would tell women if they've taken a break or a break has been foisted upon them for family reasons, that you're never out of the game. You can always get back in the game. That's one thing, I think, for people who are starting their own business. I had a great piece of advice X that accidentally came to me when I was talking to an acquaintance when I first started Smart Mouth and I was telling him what I was doing and I said, and I really, really need to get out there and market it. I know I need to do that. And he said, you know, at the beginning. Why don't you just let it happen organically and until you're really comfortable with what you've got and what you're offering. Let it market itself organically. And that's probably the single best piece of advice I got because the business did morph and evolve and it did grow organically. And he was 100 percent right. I don't think that I would want to market. I would not have wanted to market what it was in the very beginning, because now it's so much more and it became so much more pretty quickly. So I think that rut, that rush to market yourself or market what you've got can actually be limiting. So the organic growth was great and. Then finally, I would say remain open. We'll learn to be vulnerable, you know, put yourself out there, fall down, learn from it. Get back up. Try something different. Nobody ever grows, expands, moves forward or succeeds without, like, multiple failures and embarrassments and cringing moments. And, my goodness, I have had my share.

[00:39:00] As have we all. And they become more fun. The older you get. You know, I sit around with my female colleagues and ruminate over our failures far more than our success. Because they're funnier. Yeah, absolutely. And they humanize us. Yes. Yes. So I have just to recapture number one. You're never out of the game and always get back in number two. Let it happen organically in the beginning until you've got a solid identity developed. Let the building and the unraveling of it. Number three remain open. Learn expansion requires failures.

[00:39:39] Absolutely. I love those. Yeah, I do too. Those are fantastic.

[00:39:43] That's that's got to go in your your immediate memoirs. That's the first three chapters. I love it. From me to you. That's what we're out of time today, Beth. But I wanted to say thank you so much for giving us all of your time. Everyone is immediately and at once busy and available right now. It's a very odd turn of events. And I really appreciate you giving us your time.

[00:40:08] Thanks for having me, Patricia. It's fun.

[00:40:10] Absolutely and for everyone listening. We've been speaking with Beth Noymer Levine. She's the founder and principal at Smart Mouth Communications. You can find out more again on w w w dot smart mouth communications dot com. Thank you for giving me your time today. And until we speak again next time, please stay safe. And remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Today I speak with Eva Chan, the founder of Launch Pop. Eva and her team at Launch Pop help high potential founders launch brands that change our lives - From new categories to disrupting them, founders can find themselves partnering with Launch Pop to build a company that is not only backed by science but also fuelled by passion and community.

www.launchpop.com

View Details

Today I am chatting with Mariela Katz. Mariela is the founder of Montreal's leading social media agency Frenzr. She also teaches a variety of professional workshops on social media, content creation, personal branding and influencer marketing hosting over 1500 unique students.

www.instagram.com/ellakatzz www.instagram.com/frenzr www.facebook.com/frenzr

View Details

Today I am speaking with Makini Smith. Founder of A Walk In My Stilettos, Makini, is an award-winning entrepreneur. She has successfully crafted a business in personal development as a mindset coach helping women reach their goals, a certified Proctor Gallagher consultant for her mentor Bob Proctor, and 4-time published author.

View Details

Today I am chatting with Madison Eker. Madison is a trailblazer in the lgbtq+ wellness industry and the visionary behind Sum of Us Festival. As the first-ever wellness festival for women, trans, and non-binary folx, Madison is revolutionizing the way in which wellness and authenticity manifest within her respective communities.

www.SumOfUsFest.com

View Details

Today I am chatting with Merrily Orsini, Pres/CEO of corecubed. Merrily is considered a thought leader in the healthcare at home industry and is involved in numerous organizations, providing insight and advice. Orsini is a leader in the Help Choose Home initiative and podcast creator and host in which she focuses on educating how and when to choose healthcare at home.

http://www.helpchoosehome.com/

View Details

Today I am talking with Alyssa Atkins. Alyssa is the founder and CEO of Lilia, an egg freezing concierge that helps women explore their fertility options. Lilia provides research and guidance, making it easy for women to decide whether to freeze their eggs or not — and then supports those who move forward.

https://www.hellolilia.com/

View Details

Today I am speaking with Aisha Addo. Aisha founded Power To Girls Foundation, a non-profit organization to offer young girls the mentors and role models that were absent during her own youth. The Ride-Sharing Service “DriveHER” is Aisha’s latest initiative created for women by women, and the next step in her journey to continue to empower and protect women.

aishaaddo.com | driveher.ca | powertogirls.com | thinkerjournal.com

View Details

Today I am talking to Scout Sobel.Scout is the founder of Scout's Agency, the host of SCOUT Podcast, and a co-host of the Okay Sis Podcast. After starting Okay Sis, which focuses on female guests, Scout fell in love with spreading women's stories. She started Scout's Agency with an emphasis in podcast PR to do just that with 90% of her clients being women.

www.scoutsobel.com

www.scoutsagency.com

View Details

Today I chatted with Katina Mountanos: founder of On Adulting, a viral blog and community of over 23,000 millennials who are figuring out how to navigate adulthood in a conscious, happy way (@onadulting). She is an entrepreneur, writer, and mindset coach whose work has been featured on HuffPost, Fast Company, Teen Vogue, Elite Daily, Mindbodygreen, and others. https://www.onadulting.com/ https://www.daydreamerspace.com/

View Details

Today I speak with cosmetics and beauty industry expert Heather Fink regarding her 25 year career in the most famous and renowned cosmetic companies in the world before turning our attention to her own exhilirating cosmetic line under her company The Sexiest Beauty. https://thesexiestbeauty.com/

View Details

Today I spoke with Carina Glover, founder and CEO of HerHeadquarters, a brand partnership platform connecting women entrepreneurs to brand partnerships with women-owned businesses. Carina shared her tremendous growth since launching her app and her plans for the next year regarding expansion. https://herheadquarters.app/

View Details

Today I sat down with Iva Teixeira is Co-Founder and CEO of The Good face Project. At the Good Face Project, Iva, and her co-founder, Lena, use artificial intelligence to help people find clean cosmetics that will work for their needs. Their team is on a mission to transform the $400 billion dollar cosmetics industry by putting consumers at the center of product discovery and formulation. www.thegoodfaceproject.com

View Details

Today we spoke with Annette Klososky Consultant and Executive Coach. Annette is a sought-after consultant and executive coach in all facets of organizational culture and leadership development. She is the owner of the Women’s Executive Board, a leading peer advisory groups for executive women and Chair for the Oklahoma chapter of the Womens’ Presidents Organization. Her forums include female executive members representing companies with over 40,000 employees and $23 billion in total annual revenues. www.fpov.com & www.annetteklososky.com

View Details

Today we spoke with Cassandra Shuck regarding her personal history as a serial entrepreneur and entrepreneurial advisor. We also explored her advisory business and brand as a growth and profitability expert. CassandraShuck.com

View Details

Today we spoke with Cassie Owens is the owner and operator of Cassie Owens & Associates, a private therapy practice in Dunwoody, GA. Cassie is a licensed professional counselor with a specialty and certification in maternal mental health and a focus on serving the needs of all women. www.postpartumatlanta.com

View Details

Today we speak with Kate Gardiner. She is the Founder Grey Horse, a boutique agency building holistic communications for media brands globally. Kate is also known in the worlds of media, technology, and broadcast for her understanding of journalism, audience engagement, and social media. http://greyhorse.cc/

View Details

Janice V. Rodriguez is a Chicago based entrepreneur and comedian. As president of Adelante Live Inc. (adelantelive.com), a nationwide event marketing agency celebrating its 15th year in business. Janice is also a founder and producer of Las Locas Comedy, a comedy showcase that features Latina/Latinx comedic talent and other favorite ‘locas’ of any background. Las Locas Comedy recently celebrated their 3 year anniversary.

View Details

Today we speak with Tori Dunlap. Tori is a millennial money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. https://www.herfirst100k.com/

View Details

Today we spoke with Gigi Diaz. Gigi is a Radio Personality, Podcaster, and Founder. Multifaceted journalist and entrepreneur with experience in TV and radio as both on-air talent and producer. Gigi is also the founder of GiGi's Academy, a performing arts center ranked Top 3 in Hialeah dedicated to providing children a safe and fun growing environment. Gigi Diaz is also the founder of Seizing Happy, a coaching business with the goal of teaching women how to tap into their inner happiness source to lead a more empowered and purposeful life. Gigidiaz.com

View Details

Amy-Willard Cross is the founder of the Gender Fair Index. Like the Good Housekeeping Seal, Gender Fair is a consumer rating system for equality. Genderfair.com

View Details

Amanda Boleyn is the founder and CEO of She Did It Her Way. Amanda’s signature course, Ultimate Leap Suite Academy is designed to help women take massive action on their business idea, turn their passion into profits and create freedom in their life. https://shediditherwaypodcast.com

View Details

Interview with Rachael Kay Albers is a digital strategist and business comedian. She's the founder and creative director of RKA ink, a branding, web design, and digital marketing studio based outside Chicago. And she's the host of Awkward Marketing, a business comedy show blending fun-sized business advice with storytelling and sketch comedy. Think of her as the one-woman SNL of biz TV. https://www.rkaink.com/

View Details

Shelby Stanger is the host of the award-winning outdoor podcast, Wild Ideas Worth Living, a show that interviews people who have taken wild ideas -- from sailing across the Pacific Ocean, to running across the country, breaking records, surfing giant waves, starting businesses -- and made them a reality. www.shelbystanger.com

View Details

Interview with Dr. Nicola Nice: Founder & CEO at Pomp & Whimsy, a gin liqueur company. Pomp & Whimsy brings modern sensibilities to the tradition of gin making, by infusing classically distilled gin with a natural, delightfully flavorful botanical liqueur. https://www.pompandwhimsy.com

View Details

Interview with Sadie St Lawrence: Founder of Women in Data, a non-profit organization with a mission to increase diversity in data careers.

View Details

Interview with Patricia Sinay: Founder of Community Investment Strategies, a consulting firm that connects entities and individuals' passions to impactful action in the community.

This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women (including female-identified & non-binary individuals) to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

View Details

Interview with Chrystabelle: Founder of Chrys Media, a Messenger Marketing agency for high-ticket service providers. She helps her clients increase conversion by scaling engagement with Messenger marketing. www.chrysmedia.com/

This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. The series interviews women, female-identified, and non-binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. We have designed this to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

View Details

Interview with Crista Grasso: Founder of The Lean Out Method, a consultancy firm that helps growing businesses achieve more by doing less through a combination of strategic planning and lean business practices. http://leanoutmethod.com This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. The series interviews women, female-identified, and non-binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. We have designed this to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

View Details

Interview with Kate Raiford: Founder of Prenursing Smarter, an online test prep designed for Prenursing pre-nursing students so that they can score higher and get into nursing school. https://www.prenursingsmarter.com/

View Details

Interview with Alexis Piotrowski: Founder of Good Time Cocktail Co., an online company sending a Cocktail party in a box, delivered. Everything you need to make 8 delicious cocktails minus the liquor./www.goodtimecocktailco.com/

View Details

Interview with Gitta Pazar: Founder of Blue Surf I.T. : A full-service information technology company that specializes in on-site and remote support for small-to-medium-sized businesses, nonprofits and home users. www.bluesurfit.com

View Details

Rashidah Abdul-Khaliq: Founder of AK Commercial & Construction Cleaning. Also the founder of: Rashidah's Unique Broom-R.U.B., Inc. (Sweeping the Competition Out the door!) AK Commercial & Construction Cleaning, your preferred Janitorial & Construction Cleaning company utilizing Enagic's Water Ionizer as the toxic-free cleaning system of choice. Akcommercialcleaning.com rashidahak.enagicweb.info

View Details

Interview with Jackie Potter: Founder of Jackie Jaye LLC. www.jackiejaye.me

View Details

Interview with Robyn Koenig: Founder & CEO of Rare Find. Rarefind is a Leadership Coaching company that helps professional women combine mindset and self-confidence with intentional action to create powerful change in their life. https://www.robynkoenig.com/ This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women (including female-identified & non-binary individuals) to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

View Details

Interview with Evona Niewiadomska: Founder of Gifting Made, a Strategic gift marketing company with campaigns featuring gifts that clients will keep, use, and enjoy for at least a decade! giftingmade.com

View Details

Interview with Kristiana Tarnuzzer: Founder of The Cause Bar. The Cause Bar in 2018, a platform integrating digital and in-person touchpoints for social giving. www.thecausebar.com

View Details

Interview with Liz Edwards: Founder of San Diego Spirits Festival. San Diego Spirits Festival® has grown into one of the largest cocktail festivals in the USA and is a SIGNATURE event for the city of San Diego. SanDiegoSpiritsFestival.com

View Details

Interview with Roz Huang: Founder & CEO of Dandelion Global. Dandelion Global, LLC is a global business development, consulting, and advisory firm with a track record of successfully working with US companies to effectively compete and gain access to strategic Asian funders. https://dandelion-global.com/ This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women (including female-identified & non-binary individuals) to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

View Details

Interview with Jacqueline Twillie: Founder & President of ZeroGap.co, a global training, and development firm that specializes in women's leadership within male-dominated industries. https://zerogap.co/master-class

View Details

Interview with Courtney Caldwell: Co-founder & COO of beauty-tech startup, ShearShare, the first on-demand salon and barbershop space rental app. https://shearshare.com/

View Details

Interview with Carrie Phair: Founder of Stated, a marketing consulting firm partnering with small and medium-sized clients to create smarter, insightful, and compelling outreach at every stage of the funnel. https://statedmarketing.com/

View Details

Interview with Kendra Swalls: Founder of Girlmeansbusiness.com (http://www.girlmeansbusiness.com/) a business education guide for the female entrepreneur and Paisley Layne Photography https://paisleylaynephotography.com/.

View Details

McKenzie Valenta is a psychology-based life coach who uses a combination of psychology, science, and life coaching to help women achieve stability, regulation, and resiliency in their emotionality. Valentacoaching.com

View Details

Brianna is President of the Northwest Region of the Keiretsu Forum angel investment community, the largest and most active venture investor globally, comprising over 50 chapters with over 2,500 active members investing over $75 million annually into over 180 companies.

View Details

Interview with Suzy Carroll: Mentor to Mission-Inspired Women. Suzy Carroll is a mentor to (often overwhelmed) mission-inspired women, a recovered “busyness” addict, and the founder of the Alchemy of Feminine Leadership™ - Programs that Give Women Permission to Shine. suzycarroll.com

This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. The series interviews women (& women-identified & non-binary) entrepreneurs, founders, and gurus across all industries to investigate those voices in business today. Both the platform and discussion are designed to further the global conversation in regards to the changing climate in entrepreneurial and founding roles.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company website Wild Dot Agency. That's why Elle DEA agents see for my personal website. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:25][77.9]

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back, this is your host, Patricia, and today I'm sitting down with Suzy Carroll. Suzy is a mentor to mission inspired women. She's president of Suzy Carroll Inc and she can be located at Suzy Carroll Dotcom. Welcome, Suzy. [00:01:45][15.1]

[00:01:46] Hi. I'm so excited to be here. [00:01:47][1.6]

[00:01:48] I'm excited to interview you as well. For everyone listening, I'm going to read your bio on Suzy to kind of introduce her before I start peppering her with questions. But first, a quick roadmap for today's podcast. We're going to follow the same trajectory as we do with all of these in the series. We're first going to look at Suzy's academic background on professional life and then we're going to unpack the work that she does and some of her current endeavors with her mentorship. Then we'll turn towards goals that Suzy has for the next three years, both personally and professionally. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice that she may have for those looking to emulate her career or get involved with her current endeavors. So a quick bio on Suzy before we launch into questions. [00:02:32][44.1]

[00:02:33] Suzy Carroll is a mentor, too often overwhelmed mission inspired women, a recovered business addict and the founder of the alchemy of feminine leadership programs that give women permission to shine. Suzy is a suicide survivor. This is a life event as a young child ignited a lifelong quest to be enough. In her late 40s, she completed, burned out and suffered adrenal fatigue. After juggling it all for decades, she sold her brick and mortar business and began a quest of a different kind. Opening her eyes to the societal legacy that indoctrinates women and so often leads to overwhelm and to women diminishing their own light. Suzy calls on her thirty five years of business leadership and life experience to guide women to further mission by revealing what's getting in their way and letting and then letting go of the millennium of messages and legacies that women carry forward. [00:03:34][60.8]

[00:03:36] So I'm excited to kind of climb into that. Suzy, I think you have your website, which I adore, by the way. [00:03:42][6.2]

[00:03:42] I really find it very as a viewer of millions of websites a day, I find an amazing and the set up and the you know, your concept in your brand is is so well relayed in that initial landing there. [00:03:56][14.6]

[00:03:57] But before we climb into all of that, I want to look at your academic background and your early professional life prior to you finding this life college. [00:04:06][8.7]

[00:04:06] All right. Well, you're going to get a laugh out of this, given your background. My early academic life was I went to college for fashion design and commercial design and realized I have I could care less about fashion. [00:04:23][16.3]

[00:04:24] Yeah, excellent. [00:04:25][1.4]

[00:04:27] I need fashion those in my life. So that was actually kind of a short step for me. And then my my early twenties, age twenty three, I began working for a printing company. And I've always had something in me where there's always been this little inner piece of me that is striving for more. And I was I was watching the sales staff and I love that freedom they have so that they can go inside and out and didn't have to sit at their desk all day long. And they happened to be in the area that this printing company was. There was a woman on printing company and we got along very well. And she offered me a position and I went to work with her. I cut my teeth on sales. And by the time I was twenty five and this is a long time ago, I'm fifty six. By time I was twenty five, I'd broken the six figure income level. Wow. I never looked back as far as school goes. And in a way for me that was probably a good choice. I'm not saying it was a choice for everybody. I'm so nonacademic. I'm a very, very kinesthetic. So I learned by doing. [00:05:37][69.6]

[00:05:40] Interesting. So with the how did you switch over from I mean, that's a it's an interesting life to lead and leave. I mean, a twenty five getting into six figures. [00:05:51][11.7]

[00:05:52] Is it unto itself a special reality? You're running with a certain crowd at that point. What during that time period did you acquire skills that you are now employing or did you acquire skills that you definitely did not want to employ? What was the reality of that like? [00:06:11][18.8]

[00:06:12] I am one of the. [00:06:13][1.4]

[00:06:16] A skill that has stayed with me my entire working life career has been a really good work ethic because I was at that point in time in my life, I was working on one hundred percent commission. I don't even recall this pay, to be quite honest. Wow. So in a way, even though I was working for a company, I was a solo entrepreneur and I learned at a very young age that how I showed up affected. Impacted in a huge way the level of income coming in, so that was one thing. Another thing I learned and it was actually in my early twenties, I went to a training put on by a company called Context Training, Pursuit of Excellence. I believe they're still around. And in that I learned it was there's so many different personality trait programs, methodologies out there. But I learned how to identify if somebody was in the analyzer, promoter, controller or supporter and that I've used my entire life. Mm hmm. And in a way, it's just it's behavioral science. It's a way of putting somebody at ease. And I love to do that. I like people to be comfortable around me. [00:07:36][80.1]

[00:07:37] Yeah. [00:07:37][0.0]

[00:07:37] And sales, I mean, I think people who last as long as as you did in sales or find any happiness in it frequently, like those profiling traits. And there's I know there's a lot of different pedagogical lenses that kind of break it down as to how to look at things like that. But yeah, having those five or six subsets of people and realizing that that's how you break down interactions differently with each one, given what their personal motives are. And it trains everyone to be really observant. Right. This kind of in that, of course, as we know, age and communication when we're actually serve someone. [00:08:10][32.7]

[00:08:11] Yeah. I mean, if you if you can identify where your client is in that spectrum, you're able to serve them better. I remember one of my biggest clients way back then was he was an analyzer and he needed information. He needed to come out to the plant. He needed to see how our file systems worked. And that was what he needed to feel comfortable. My clients that would have fallen into that more controlling category. And this is just like giving the information straight. Shoot it. Just don't waste my time. Mm hmm. [00:08:45][34.1]

[00:08:47] Did you ever find I'm curious as as a kind of a tangent, but what happened when personalities did you have overlaps of people that represented a little bit of both? [00:08:56][9.7]

[00:08:57] And if so, were you able to accommodate that or did the you know, I don't remember specifics. [00:09:01][4.1]

[00:09:02] I don't remember ever having a problem, like, misidentifying, OK. But absolutely, I know even with myself as I've gotten older, I realize, you know, I kind of draw from all quadrants, right? [00:09:21][19.5]

[00:09:22] But there's still a dominant OK, yeah, there's still a prevailing. So did you stay with the same company for that entire time period? Did you stay with or did you bounce around? [00:09:32][9.2]

[00:09:33] No, no, no. I've had a very twisty turny career. I tend to shake everything up every seven to 10 years, OK. I love new. Yeah. So I don't. How long did I stay with that company? I don't remember, but I got married and we moved actually to the town I live in now. And so that, that predicated me partying. But I brought a lot of my clients with me. I had such good relationships that I worked out of a local company and I continued on serving my clients and that went on for several years. And then I got pregnant. Mm hmm. Come on. And everything changes. [00:10:18][45.4]

[00:10:20] So is that when you launched your your your mentorship or how did that kind of climb into that so twisty turny? [00:10:29][9.2]

[00:10:30] I worked in advertising print media, and then I went from there into I was a national sales director working for a manufacturing company and flying around the country and training groups and working with rap groups. And then they went from there, came back to the company where I worked in advertising, came back as their advertising director. And so all told, I worked for that particular company for 15 years and then I. Was really getting the itch, I wanted to own my own business. And I remember I showed this a lot now I just launched a thought like, OK, I want to own my own business. I'm really clear of two things. I want to help people and I don't want it to be retail. And I'm lacking because two years later, I ended up purchasing a nutritious nutrition and wellness center, which is retail. Yeah, but you don't you get what you need. I always get what you ask for and I own that for ten years. In fact, it was July 30, December thirty, first of twenty nineteen. It was five years since I sold that. And that was extraordinary. It was, it was hard. It was where I learned so much about building teams and I navigated that business through the recession. [00:11:55][85.1]

[00:11:57] A rough time to grab your your first retail. [00:11:59][2.5]

[00:12:00] No kidding. Yeah. Well, I've had it for a few years up until then. [00:12:03][2.7]

[00:12:04] And so was your first business, the retail store? My first, yes. [00:12:10][6.0]

[00:12:11] So you launched the thought. I want to own a business. I just don't want it to be retail. [00:12:14][3.4]

[00:12:15] And then you acquired a retail store excellence and you managed it through the recession. That's amazing. [00:12:21][6.1]

[00:12:22] Yeah. Thank you. I feel really good about that. It was a tough time in our small town. We're very cut off. So we're about we're about eighteen months behind the trends that hit Seattle. So our recovery was almost eighteen months after everybody else started to recover. But I did it. I did not do it unscathed, though. I think that's a really important piece, is that that store, that experience carrying it through the recession is where I really tuned in. It was brought to my awareness that I had I had a problem with business. I was very addicted to it. And how I kept my sanity was I would stay busy. I needed to feel like I had had control of everything all the time. It was the juggling of all those balls. So she's a woman, as a mom, as a wife, just keeping those all up in the air. And if I dropped when, I would have felt like I had failed. And I remember a friend of mine who's a master coach said, Suzy, you're also a psychotherapist. You said you're addicted to business. And we sat down to work together and she she asked me to write down everything I felt responsible for. Like this was this was the weight I was carrying. And it was a notepad, single spaced notepad, two sites that I filled in. And then she asked me to pare it down to five. [00:13:55][93.2]

[00:13:59] About how that's hard. Yeah, I mean, even my mind swims, here's what I want to clarify. [00:14:03][4.4]

[00:14:04] I want to clarify with how you're defining busyness, is it physical and mental? Is it everything in your life? And also, how did she differentiate between what you thought you were responsible for versus what you were genuinely responsible for? [00:14:19][15.2]

[00:14:20] So how I define business, like what I teach is there's a difference between unhealthy, busy and healthy, busy and so unhealthy, busy, which was the realm I was in at that point in time, is when you're using busyness as an avoidance tactic to feel what you don't want to feel. Right. It becomes it's an addiction. It was my addiction of choice. I don't have any drug or substance addictions, but my addiction was business. I was raised by a narcissistic mother and I had a lot of childhood trauma that the busyness just covered up and healthy. Busy is a type of disease that lacks focus and lacks intention. Whereas healthy, busy is you have an idea, you have an intention, you've got to focus around it, it's it's not scaring about massively on the hamster wheel from the minute you wake up till the moment you attempt to go to sleep. And if you're in an unhealthy busy, you have a hard time sleeping, right? Of course. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What was the second question? [00:15:28][68.5]

[00:15:29] So I was wondering how she defined what you were. She said, you know, write everything down that you're responsible for. [00:15:34][4.9]

[00:15:34] And I thought that's tricky because a lot of people can say they're responsible for things that someone else can say. That's not necessarily your responsibility. But if there's no one involved in your system that's fulfilling them. This is a bit of projection coming out. [00:15:46][12.2]

[00:15:48] And I think unabashedly, I think I my list, too, would be both sides of the page. And and it's not that I desire that. [00:15:56][8.6]

[00:15:56] It's that I think well, I've set up my life in my system in that, like, I I am kind of tasked with that because I took that task on so many years ago and things of that nature. And so I'm wondering how she helped you because it sounds like you pared it down to five. And part of that is parsing out what you truly are responsible for versus what you're just so self assigning. [00:16:16][19.2]

[00:16:16] Yeah. So if I remember correctly, this was quite a while ago. Now I'm an idea person. And so I was jumping on every single idea. I have a very, very creative I have a creative mind. I can go into different directions. So for me it was really just narrowing that all down and say, let's get focused. What is most important to you right now? And so is identifying your core values, essentially. I don't like to use core values, what I see when working with women, if the minute you start talking about core values or looking at a values list because women are so hard on themselves, let's say you say, OK, integrity is one of my core values. Immediately women go into, oh, my God, I'm not doing enough. Mm hmm. So I call it core importance. What's most important to you? So what's most important to me and that point in time was the viability of my business, my family, my relationships, my health and well-being, which had completely it wasn't anywhere on my list. And furthering the growth of my business, I think that's how I paired it all down and taking care of my my house, what I would call a household, making sure you're on top of your finances and you're building that sort of thing. But I was just I was volunteering everywhere I was at that point. I was on three boards. I said, yeah, any time anybody asked me to do anything, I was saying yes. And I was saying yes, because I had yet to understand this unmet need I had, which I know what it is now with of appreciation. So and again, that's from childhood trauma that I just need to feel appreciated. And I got that fixed by going out and helping everybody. So I had Durata way back on the helping. I learned how to say no. Eventually I learned how to say no without feeling guilty. [00:18:13][116.8]

[00:18:14] So that's interesting. That's nice. [00:18:16][2.4]

[00:18:16] Yeah, I think a lot of people, women in particular I've spoken to over the past year would struggle with that. You know, people can say no, but there's there seems to be a guilt attached to it all the time. [00:18:27][10.2]

[00:18:28] And the guilt is attached just because of our social conditioning as women. So we have women, we have these three beautiful, innately inherited traits of being nurturers, givers and pleasers. [00:18:41][12.8]

[00:18:42] And that's also been. [00:18:43][0.9]

[00:18:47] Extra impacted by this social conditioning that we are supposed to take care of, we women take it to the next level and think we need to fix everything as well, which we don't. But those are also the traits that often trip us up. Mm hmm. So, yes, we're we're nurturers, we're givers, are pleasers, and we overdo it so often and forget about ourselves. [00:19:10][23.3]

[00:19:11] Yeah. Anything in excess. Right. Anything can dress in assessing. [00:19:14][3.4]

[00:19:15] Yeah, I am one of the courses I was teaching. [00:19:19][3.6]

[00:19:19] I did this, I call it over and we're overwhelmed. We're over it. We're over giving or over offering. And I, I did this graphic that had ovaries. And then if the topic of our overrating we own this, I like that. [00:19:37][17.3]

[00:19:37] That's a coupon. [00:19:37][0.4]

[00:19:38] So when you when did you launch, when did you find you have this meeting, you were exiting your retail experience. Did you know that you were going to climb into into coaching and mentoring or did you have you realized your company yet? [00:19:53][15.0]

[00:19:54] No, my life never goes quite on the trajectory. I think it is going to go I'm going to accept that. So when I sold my store, I had the idea I wanted to take a month off. This has been a dream of mine to take a month off and one month passed. And I was so darn tired. In that month, I was diagnosed with level four adrenal fatigue. So, yeah, I had completely blown my adrenals out. Long story short, my my mother became very ill. My mother passed away. I was September rolled around and I was so extraordinarily tired and I had a dream and a crazy dream. And before I even got my head off the pillow, I knew I was supposed to take a year long sabbatical, called my husband at work. And I said, hey, I was coming home at lunchtime. I said, when you come home, just hang out for a minute. I need to talk to you. And so I had the I was very lucky. I had the monitoring means to be able to take a year off without worrying at all about finances. I took everything off my plate and I called it my year of No. Actually, I started it in the fall of two thousand fifteen, I had a mantra for the year and my intention for that year, what I had already unwound quite a bit from my business habits, but I wanted to learn how to be with myself and how to to sit, how to not feel agitated. If I wasn't doing anything. And it was from that year that really everything I do now was born out. It I learned things. I'm very intuitive because it being in that quiet space, as hard as it was, was extraordinary. One of the things I realized is women especially, we have such a skewed sense of how much we can accomplish in a day. Yeah. Yeah. So I embarked on a herd of a one woman research firm and she helped me with the questions and I embarked on interviewing, which I have no background and it turns out I loved. It gives you permission to ask people questions. And I interviewed women around the world on the subject of overwhelm and busyness. And out of that, the first renditioned was born and that was the practice of sacred selfishness. Which I love that, yeah, so it is sacred selfishness is the practice of prioritizing self giving to yourself first so you have more to give to the world, but not from a place of resentment and depletion, from a place of health and happiness. [00:22:47][172.2]

[00:22:49] So was that a philosophy, was it a coaching oh, like lens that you used or was it a book? How are you employing the practice of sacred, selfish as both a philosophy and a coaching lens? [00:23:01][12.2]

[00:23:01] I have yet to write a book that's bubbling up to the surface now, but definitely a coaching lens during my sabbatical. I have a lot of random conversations here, I live in a small town, so walking down the sidewalk and, you know, somebody and I'd ask them how they are women and 90 percent of the comeback would be I am so overwhelmed. So that's where this all came from. And I began to notice even within myself, I had taken everything off my plate. The only thing I was responsible for at that point in time was my health and my relationships. That was it. And I still felt overwhelmed. And when I learned from that was overwhelmed. Isn't necessarily all the stuff that you're doing overwhelmed is your emotions, all these emotions that we're navigating, the should, the half truths, the need to choose, the self comparison that I'm not good enough and I need to do more. I need to I need to be more. [00:24:12][70.9]

[00:24:15] Yeah, absolutely, I mean, it's it's incredibly powerful, I think that anyone who sat with a laundry list of things to do and then sat with nothing could easily say that being overwhelmed is a state of mind, that we've all had places where most of us have had places where you're getting a million things done and you still feel like you have time to get more things done. And then you've got two things on your plate and you just feel like you can't handle any of it. I think you're right. It is a state of mind and sounds simple, but it's a very powerful realization when you get there. And then the next step is for me, the next logical is, well, how do we get to the state of mind where we don't feel overwhelmed when I see the path to that to constantly living and not being overwhelmed? [00:24:56][41.4]

[00:24:57] Right. Well, you start with the fact this is an exercise I take people through in my calling and clarity, which is my newest body of work. And the very first thing we do, and it sounds very simplistic, in fact, when I first offered, I thought, well, this is actually going to work. It works. Amazing is I have clients, brain dump and brain dead to me means just taking everything that is not going about in your head and putting it down on paper. And I have them just go for five minutes and write every thing, every thought that is that they're holding in this mental space and get it down on paper. And almost always when that exercise is completed, they'll look at it, go, wow, this is very random and unconnected. Yes, it is. It's and then through the process, they take them through. We start to break those random, unconnected thoughts down into categories. Mm hmm. And then another piece of that is looking at, all right, what is essential and what is choice, because often we think we think what is essential is actually choice. I've made this choice. And a really important element in this is I was talking about earlier, is your most what I call your most important. So I have my most important for me are unscheduled time, meaningful connection, forward movement, inspiring others and healthy living. And then I have things underneath that. So before I make a decision to do anything, I look at my list, whether it's an idea I've had or I've been asked to do something or participate in that, I'll look at my list. All right. Who am I going to have time for my unscheduled time, or will that will that impede on my own schedule time? Or is this connection in a way that I like to connect? It's a way of staying in alignment with your your true self. [00:26:55][117.7]

[00:26:57] Yeah, I mean, and looking at it in those terms, essential versus nonessential is interesting, it's kind of crucial, right? And it does. I like it because the metrics on it are a little bit more loose, but it does confine things into two funnels. I mean, the concept of deciding that a task comes up and is it is doable because it follows it meets the curriculum of these things. You've decided before you even knew the task. So you don't assign value to the task before you've given yourself this correct kind of funnel to put things into. I think it would it should, in theory, provide a reality that is an uplifting if 90 percent of what you're doing is falling into the essential category that meets the criteria of what you have there. [00:27:48][50.9]

[00:27:49] Something I am so passionate about in regards to women is we're extraordinary beings. We really are. And if we're going and doing everything for everyone and not and not practicing this piece of sacred selfishness, we're deluding our ability to make an impact. Mm hmm. So if you've got your your hand on so many burners, whatever that thing is, and you're going in so many different directions, it's like you're taking water and watering it down and diluting your impact, right? [00:28:25][35.9]

[00:28:26] Yeah. Without realizing it. Realizing it. And that's what I had done. [00:28:30][4.9]

[00:28:31] I had so diluted my innate ability, which for me is just really my innate ability is to be able to put women at ease and connect on a deep level. And I can really quickly start to see what's overwhelming a person and help them find their own plan. I'm not about telling a person how to do it. This is all about finding your own way. But I get to guide women through that and I love that. But leadership is so important in with ourselves in our own little personal sphere, in the outside world. And we're not going to be effective leaders if we're going into so many different directions. Yeah, kind of wiped out. Right. [00:29:13][42.5]

[00:29:14] So when you're taking on a new client or someone like that, is everything kind of tailor fit to what they need? [00:29:22][7.6]

[00:29:22] Or do you have an Ontake process where you ask about goals? How do you start the process in helping your clients or in workshops and helping people kind of unearth their own individual plans? [00:29:34][11.3]

[00:29:35] When I'm working one on one with the client, it's all very specialized custom. So it starts with a conversation, just finding out where they're at, you know? What is it that they don't they would like to be seen and talking about that they don't really have anyone in their life that they can talk that way with, what is this overwhelming them? What is it that's keeping them up at night? And that's where we start and we go from there in my in my chorus calling in clarity, I do have it's an eight session course and there are definitely specific steps I'm guiding a woman through, starting with how we've been socialized and having them go through some processes to understand how socialization has impacted them. Mm hmm. [00:30:26][50.2]

[00:30:27] And then is the in the courses goal the end of the eight sessions? Is it to have this kind of clarified view with all of these things that we've talked about that you've done with these essential versus nonessential and things of that nature it's to have. [00:30:41][14.5]

[00:30:42] Yeah, yeah. Like, I, I beta tested the course this summer and one of my beta test clients, she she's just extraordinarily smart. I didn't even know why she was calling me because I my perception of her, she really had it all together. Well she did have it all together helping everybody else. And she had this business she wanted to launch and she couldn't get it off the ground. So yeah, taking her through this process, she was able to see how she was getting in her own way. So she she realized that she was giving all her time away. Yes, she has put a label of importance on her own endeavors, and I'm just going gangbusters. It's just really fun to watch. But you know what's most important to you? What matters most to you and where can you listen, loosen your grip on other things in order to to keep what matters most to you for for you in front of you and keep the focus on that. [00:31:42][59.8]

[00:31:43] Are there physical activities that you recommend you have? [00:31:46][2.8]

[00:31:47] Because I think that that is that concept, as hefty as it is, it in speech is even heftier in physical practice, particularly when it comes to people who are by very nature, as so many women and women identify roles, they're living five different realities. If they're if their parents, if their spouses and even single young women seem to have just more roles that they're fulfilling in their young lives than some other people that I've looked at in our society. And I'm wondering, because you have people with all of those things, it seems to be hard to tell someone or to advise someone. And without some kind of a physical activity like I've had people suggest, other coaches I've talked to say I always tell my clients, can we get to you first in the morning? But can we cut your time? Where is the things that are servicing you for this role of prioritizing your essential things to happen first thing in the morning rather than later in the afternoon where they're most likely to be pushed back? Do you have any physical attachment that you put to these things, or is it all still based on when you're done with clients on a person to person basis? Artec, you have me with me when I'm talking about with your advice, when you when you advise in your mentorship with your clients, do you have like do you recommend people meditate frequently? Are there any other, like, activities that kind of accompany your method? [00:33:18][91.6]

[00:33:19] OK, you know, there's a really simple one. So what is so becoming so popular, which I'm thrilled about, is in neuroscience and how how our brains are. So this plasticity with our brains. So especially for a woman who has been out there in the world for a couple of decades, we've literally been talking about myself and actually every woman I work with, we have trained our brains to be busy. And when we we try to rest, we become agitated. So one of that and this is actually how I started I when I had my nutrition well, wellness center, I was often offered free opportunities. And in this case I was offered up. Somebody new to town wanted to offer me a Thai massage. But sure, I love massage. I had the massage from them. And then when I was out there, they said, would you be interested in going on a journey? It was a shamanic journey. And I'm always up for anything new. And I knew like that much about that. But I was like, okay, sure, why not? And it got one of those big didgeridoos out Australian didgeridoos and started playing that. I don't remember the rest of it. All I know is I went somewhere at. It was very quiet, my mind stopped, I at that point in my life, it was the first time in my entire life my mind had ever stopped. And when he brought me back to present, I said, I want more of that. It was just extraordinary. So how do I start? You start with ten minutes. And so I this is a starting point for everybody to work with them. And just taking 10 and in the morning is the best time. If your mom if you can get up a little bit earlier than your kids, think about things that if you say you don't have time. What what? Why are you saying you don't have time? Social media is a huge time suck. You don't need to go on social media in the morning. You don't need to check in. What what can you clearly everybody can find something in for ten minutes. Just sit with yourself. I don't call this meditation because people get freaked out about meditation. I can't do this right. So how I suggest is take a deep breath in through your nose and out came out and do that three times, have a pad sitting next to you, because in the beginning you're going to give a thought and you're going to get stuck on it. There's no right or wrong way to do this. If a thought comes in, just write it down. Don't beat yourself up, just write it down and then just go back to your quiet space of breathing. So that's how I started with ten minutes. Within two weeks, I was up to forty minutes. That's how fast you can train your brain to be quiet. And then I have to course correct a bit because it was such a peaceful place. I didn't want to get up and go to my office. [00:36:15][175.7]

[00:36:16] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's, I mean it's a powerful it's a common thread. I ask because it's just become an absolute staple, you know, to people who are helping others find clarity through a myriad of lenses from everyone I've spoken to, people finding clarity through bringing new technology platforms and things that you wouldn't think would bring clarity all the way down to. People have this this small side note of like this meditative, if you will, like activity. If it's not meditation and it's the common thread is five to ten every day. Yeah. And people say, you know, try to get it done in the morning because that way it's not on your to do with meditation, to not become something that is on your to do list. [00:37:01][44.4]

[00:37:02] It'll be something before that starts. So and I like the irony of that because I am the kind of person that would probably put it on the to do list if I wasn't already such a believer in it. [00:37:13][11.0]

[00:37:13] It would definitely be something that was just hanging out there at 10:00 pm at night where I was like, I got to meditate. [00:37:17][3.7]

[00:37:18] And then I think about doing in the morning. It sets the tone for the day. [00:37:21][3.1]

[00:37:22] Yeah, absolutely. Well, so after looking back over everything that you've accomplished so far with your the business, it sounds like you kind of hinted you dropped a little bit of a carrot about a book maybe on the horizon. Do you do three year, three to five year goals planning, or is it more on a one year or one month basis? And if so, what is what are your plans or your goals for the next future? [00:37:50][28.4]

[00:37:52] You know, those are such good questions. I no longer do a five year plan. And in all honesty, part of that has to do it. Just this point I'm at in my life, I. I do feel like I'm in a transition currently, so I have a quite happily been working from home for the last few years, but I'm part of that was healing my adrenals. But I'm craving more connection with people. So what I say is currently I'm playing with ideas. I'm kind of itching to get into a little bit more the corporate world and work with women who are overwhelmed women in leading teams. So that's something I've been playing around with. Definitely this year I'll be leading a couple of retreats and. Thinking into the best way to get my message out there that feels authentic with me, I'm I'm not a lover of social media. So, yeah, I am I really feel like where I sit right now, today, I am in a transitionary period. And I really believe when I when I went on a sabbatical, a friend of mine asked me how I was doing. I said, you know, I'm just hanging out. And the space between what was and what will be. And I'm back there again. We never hang out there once. Right. Yeah, of course, that I love that space, though. [00:39:29][97.3]

[00:39:30] I love the space of transition and possibility, particularly when you can uncouple it from anxiety or expectation. [00:39:36][6.7]

[00:39:38] And I'm not the word curiosity. So I'm really curious. Last year I went to the it's called the World Changing Women's Summit. And Elaine Elaine, a clothing designer. Elaine. [00:39:50][11.8]

[00:39:51] What is her last name, Eileen Fisher. There we go. Eileen Fisher was there. [00:39:56][5.2]

[00:39:58] And you know how you go to something and you are you listen to something and you walk away usually with one pearl and the pearl. I walked away from witnessing a live fisher with that woman is so extraordinarily curious. It's in her nature. Mm hmm. And it was watching her being interviewed up on stage. And they were asking her, you know, some of the questions you're asking, how she's a bit of a bumbler, which I loved. So she didn't she didn't say, oh, yes, this is what we did. She said, well, we tried this and that didn't work. We tried that and that didn't work. And we tried this. And that worked when. Oh, yes. It was almost like it was it was just a breath of fresh air for me, because that's how I operate a bit. Right. I'm going to try this. I'm going to try that. I like to experiment, but I'm always curious. And I was really reminded watching her to always be curious. [00:40:54][56.5]

[00:40:55] Absolutely. I agree. I think it's the the key to vitality as well as I climb through middle age, put myself I think I'm in and curious, breathes a lot of the familiar life that I need that we let go of throughout stress and things that it sounds like you approach. So and in the name of curiosity, I'm curious with you, if you were in the park somewhere in the beautiful northwest that you live in and tomorrow and a young woman or a female identified individual or non-binding or individual walked up to you and said, listen, we have a friend in common. And I just wanted you to know that I've spent some time in sales. I killed it. I made a fantastic living and I had a child. I've done a bunch of different things. And now I'm looking to kind of go off on my own. I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to take some time for myself and figure it out with the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual. [00:41:52][56.6]

[00:41:54] Well, of course, going on a sabbatical, if you're able to, is essential, even if it's a month long. To be quiet with yourself. To allow that that the peace to settle over to you and. [00:42:11][17.7]

[00:42:14] It's like when you go to a salad bar and you make your salad by picking all the things that you love and leaving the things that you don't, I think before you can take the next step in life, it's really important to look at your life and go, you know, I really love that. I didn't like that so much. This really lights me up. I wrote a blog actually about this unconventional steps to taking your next step in life. And even if you're currently working, it's an opportunity to feel into what lights up and what doesn't. [00:42:46][32.0]

[00:42:49] And what do you want more of and what do you want less of and start there? [00:42:53][4.0]

[00:42:54] I love that. That's wonderful. And I like that visual visual person. [00:42:59][5.0]

[00:43:00] So I have to take a sabbatical of Abel, be quiet with yourself and listen and then finally look over the buffet of your life and pick what lights up. [00:43:09][9.3]

[00:43:10] Yes. And that's wonderful. I love that. [00:43:13][2.7]

[00:43:13] That kind of I think that's one of the first times people have talked about maybe a calmer approach, this kind of to sit and be still and then per view what has come before and pick from that. It's such a steady way to actually move forward. And that kind of advice, you know, people are usually action items are usually very, very hyperbolic, you know, and this is very calm and collected. [00:43:38][25.1]

[00:43:39] That's wonderful. Well, this incredible advice and unfortunately, we're out of time, but I have a million more questions. [00:43:44][4.5]

[00:43:44] And so I hope that we can persuade you in the next year to come back on and get more into detail with some of the work that you're doing and the work that you've done. I really appreciate your time today, Suzy. I'd love to. Thank you. It's nice to meet you. Absolutely. And for everyone listening, you can learn more about Suzy and contact her at Suzy Carroll dot com. That is s you z y c a r r o l l dot com. [00:44:10][26.1]

[00:44:12] For anyone listening, thank you for your time today. And until we talk again, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte. [00:44:12][0.0]

[2543.2]

View Details

Interview with Rebekah Sager: Award-Winning Journalist. Rebekah Sager is a nationally published journalist. Her work has been featured in Playboy, AARP, NBC Latino, The Los Angeles Times, Bustle, VICE, Hemispheres, and Cosmopolitan magazine. rebekahsager.com

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company website Wild Dot Agency. That's why L DEA agents see or my personal website. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:25][77.9]

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Rebekah Sager. [00:01:34][4.9]

[00:01:36] Rebekah is an award winning journalist with over a decade of experience covering breaking news, lifestyle, entertainment and human interest stories. Welcome, Rebekah. [00:01:44][8.4]

[00:01:45] Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you. [00:01:48][2.9]

[00:01:48] I'm excited to get into is with you as well. We've spoken to so many writers and I know a bunch of people in the audience and everyone for everyone listening. You guys really pressed us to find more writers out there. And Rebekah, is the answer to that call a quick roadmap for today's podcast and it's going to hold the same trajectory as our usual format, where, first of all, look at Rebekah's academic background and early professional life. Then we're going to turn to unpacking her writing engagements and also look at some endeavors that she's got a company called Beseen. But we'll get into the logistics of how her career came to be. Kind of the who, what, when, where and why of her journalism story areas that she covers genres, population, specialization, all the range, everything like that. And we'll turn our efforts towards unpacking some of the goals that Rebekah has for the next three years regarding her writing and her businesses at hand. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice that she may have for those of you looking to get involved or emulate some of her life work. So, Rebekah, you have so much going on and read a quick bio before I start peppering you with questions for everyone listening so they have a healthy background on you. Rebekah Sager is a nationally published journalist who work has been featured in Playboy, AARP, NBC, Latino, The Los Angeles Times, Bussel, Vice Hemispheres and Cosmopolitan magazine to name a few a culture and lifestyle writer. Sager's started as an unpaid blogger in 2007. She has covered the renaissance of the US California Mexico border. Our Bazil ComicCon Coachella, New York Fashion Week, California's wildfires and the Flint water crisis. She profiled such luminaries as actor Billy Porter, fashion designer Jason Wu, jazz greats Arturo Sandoval, iconic drag queen Rupal, actor and restaurateur Danny Trejo, Randy Jones of the Village People model and activist Amber Rose. David Joyner, the man who lived inside Barny costume and later became the top sex practitioner, and Jonathan Goldsmith, sickies most interesting man in the world. [00:04:02][134.0]

[00:04:04] For more information and to view a full list of her stories, you can visit her website, Rebekah Sager and dot com. So, Rebekah, before we get into your current writing and kind of the story that got you there, can you start us off with your academic background and early professional life? [00:04:18][13.9]

[00:04:19] So I had we talked about earlier, kind of like an odd trajectory to journalism because I went to a high school for the performing arts. [00:04:28][9.3]

[00:04:29] I grew up in Washington, D.C., was called Duke Ellington High School for the Arts, and I studied theater. And then when I graduated, I really only wanted to go to either Juilliard or Carnegie Mellon was my backup. I did not get into Juilliard, gave a horrendous audition to get I did not get in and then was really depressed when I got into Carnegie Mellon because I didn't know so much about it. My mom and parents were like, this is this is thrilling. This is amazing. Carnegie Mellon's wonderful school. So so I only applied to to school. So I ended up at Carnegie Mellon. And it is a conservatory training program for actors. It's really competitive. I didn't know any of that when I went. And overall, I, I mean, I got a great education, but I, I kind of quickly discovered that I kind of didn't want to become an actor, but I was already going and I was a junior by the time that happened and didn't really couldn't think of another thing to do with my life. So finished what New York tried my hand at acting got very, very close, met a lot of directors. Spike Lee was one at the time. I met several times for auditions and but it just never really hit with me. So part of it was as a biracial person, not looking really black enough or white enough. And at the time now maybe that might be OK in twenty twenty. [00:06:01][92.0]

[00:06:01] But back then it just there weren't a lot of people look like me, so it wasn't a great fit. So I ended up kind of just easing my way out of it. And, and at around the same time, getting married, having a starting a family. We were in Washington, D.C., moving out to California. And my and, you know, I was a mom. I was a stay at. Mom and my now ex-husband is a journalist, and so I was around a lot of that, I edited a lot of his work, I saw his process. He was really successful. I think I kind of gleaned all that, but never thought of myself as a journalist, never really thought that's where I would end up. I I was living in San Diego and so I was volunteering at different with different organizations. And one of them was a school for homeless teenagers call the Monarch School in downtown San Diego. And initially the idea was that I would put on a play. Well, the problem with the homeless community is that it's very it fluctuates. So you never know who's going to be there from week to week. So a play is pretty difficult. You cast to play. Somebody doesn't show up. It's pretty difficult for those who are there. So I started I took the idea of kind of my life experience at the time of interviewing people and creating this narrative and and with theater, which I was really well trained to do, and combined that and had the kids do kind of written journalistic monologues so they could interview each other, but they could write their own stories. And then we ended up hiring actors to act out their stories for them. And I think that was kind of my first real taste of, you know, I I think I could maybe be good at this, but I wasn't the one doing the writing. But what I learned was I was really good with people. I was good at listening to people and kind of finding good stories. And I had kind of a knack for stories. So so that that's kind of the I can go into from there. I can kind of transition to how I started as a journalist. But do you want me to continue? [00:08:23][142.1]

[00:08:24] You know, I think it's fascinating that it kind of began with you encouraging these youth around you, the population at large, homeless high school youth is an amazing exercise to examine in and of itself, but to encourage that kind of a journalistic enterprise through monolog because you couldn't put on a play, it's very creative of you, even in its inception. [00:08:47][23.1]

[00:08:48] So all of this predated you becoming an actual journalist. You were encouraging these young children to, via journalistic efforts, develop monologues. So I like that that like the obtuseness of that. I wonder, so how did that kind of stretch you into developing pieces on your own? Was it enough editing, come ahead, come up that there was an opportunity that came about? [00:09:12][24.5]

[00:09:14] I mean I mean, I was helping them to edit their work. I think that is something that was kind of innately part of it. I think I found it to be something that it was a way I could use acting for something that was I could do on my own. But it was still highly dependent on other people. And I think I turn to to writing when I really decided that I wanted to get that program ended. And the thing that's the most frustrating thing to me about acting is that although I love working with other people and working on a team, you can't do it by yourself. You can't just put on a show by yourself for no audience. You need an audience. You need lights and sound and costumes and direction and a script. So, you know, it was around that time that actually I was working on the Obama campaign and I was just a volunteer making phone calls, trying to get people to sign up to register to vote. And I was just politically charged up at the time. And so actually somebody said, hey, why don't you why don't you write a blog? And I, I was like, Huh? That's interesting. That's an interesting idea. And, you know, my mother had said to me years and years and years before, it's interesting that you married a writer because you always love to write. I didn't remember her saying that until years later. But when I started to write the blog, I thought, well, you know, I'm not really a mommy blogger. I'm not really writing about parenting stuff. It's interesting to me personally, but I don't know. I didn't it wasn't interesting enough for me to write about it. So how who do I find that I can write about? And at the time the Obama got elected and and the economy crashed and we're in San Diego living in San Diego. And I started to hear about this renaissance that was happening on the US Mexico border. Those were a lot of the kids that I'd also been working with. So I was. And I've been crossing the border just out of interest, just to go over for the day, but what was happening was there was gang violence, people weren't crossing. So there was a there was this just transformation of Tijuana at the time. And so I thought between that and this economy, there's all these people I know who are struggling to make businesses work in a time where the economy has crashed and they've dependent they've depend on tourism. In the case of the border, they've they're depending on people with money, expense accounts. None of that's happening. So how are these businesses going to stay afloat? And it became a fascinating beat where you could really there were tons of young, independently owned businesses. [00:12:21][187.3]

[00:12:22] Many of them are owned by women. So it was a fantastic way to highlight their business, hopefully bring business. And it was interesting to me because I thought, how are these people going to survive? [00:12:33][10.7]

[00:12:33] And everybody had different mechanisms for trying to make their lives work and their businesses sustain themselves. And so and at the same time, Tijuana started and these coffee shops and record stores, and it was like these millennial kids had spaces now that were cheap to rent where they could open things for themselves. And it became, well, if we're not going to we don't have tourism anymore, how do we make our businesses survive? We focus on ourselves. What do we want to do? And that kind of became what happened in San Diego. Prices came down at some restaurants. People band together doing interesting pop ups kind of sprouted out of this time because it was all a way of like just how do we survive? And no one was writing about it. And so I got lucky because somebody saw what I was doing and I was literally writing these blogs and I didn't we didn't have social media. It was just starting so many years ago. So I just would do a mass email with a link to the to the blog. And my friends would say, oh, good job, or, oh, I have to try that store. Would I have to go to that boutique and try that or. Oh, now we'll cross the border. It's whatever. So it just kind of blossomed from there and somebody picked it up and said, why don't we make this a column? And an editor who left because of downsizing at San Diego magazine started as editor in chief of a dot com. [00:14:11][97.6]

[00:14:12] So he said, why don't you make this a blog? And it Kofman. We changed the name from my way or the highway, which is what I called it, to shop local SD for San Diego. And and that's really how it kind of that's how it started. That was the start of it. I was in San Diego and it was really kind of just trying to find that unique angle. And I think if anything, if there's any through line for me, that's what it's been. It's trying to find that because I didn't wasn't trained as a journalist and I didn't have years and years of writing experience under my belt. [00:14:51][39.4]

[00:14:52] So I fit. So I was learning how to be a good writer with editors kind of being kind of out of the kindness of their heart. They knew I had good ideas, but I was inexperienced. Yeah. [00:15:05][13.1]

[00:15:05] So that's Yanqui though. That's awesome. That's that's cowgirl style. It's the old West. [00:15:10][4.8]

[00:15:10] It's like that's how people you know, it's Dorothy Parker. It's how people used to jump in. It wasn't this massive amounts of training necessarily learning in the right, particularly in something like journalism. You know, it's filled with Zakk Gaist. I mean, it's the spirit of the times in journalism now certainly isn't what it was 15 years ago. And so it's changing daily. So it's one of those things that I think almost might be more fortuitous to learn in the field. How long did you stay with? Well, first of all, how long did it my way or the highway before it became shop local SD. And then how long did you stay with shop local SD? [00:15:45][34.6]

[00:15:48] I mean, I think the transition was pretty quick. It was like under a year that that that this editor picked it up and then it became shop local SD and I still have shop local SD, but since I'm not really covering. But that that was a great calling card because it got me to San Diego magazine and it got me to San Diego Union Tribune. So San Diego magazine gave me this really, really tiny little contract of ten thousand dollars for the year. That was my salary. And believe me, I was really excited and but I wanted to. So they wanted me to cover local fashion. So I said, OK, fine, so. Kind of covered like the fashion designers and the boutiques that were opening whoever whatever big designer would come to San Diego to fashion Valley Mall, I would go and interview them. And then I suggested, why don't I fly myself to New York and cover Fashion Week? And I had no idea what I was doing, but it had just moved to Lincoln Center from from from the park, Bryant Park to Lincoln Center. So it was and there was like this tiny little space in the middle of Lincoln Center where there was Wi-Fi because no one knew that you absolutely needed wi fi then. So it just kind of started and no one was going because it was all very new. And so I had access and I had a friend. I could sleep on the couch and basically blog from Lincoln Center live to San Diego magazine's website. So I did that for a few months. I covered that for them. And then they felt ended up I ended up leaving because they felt that it was too big. Like it was like we want to focus on local. Why are you trying to push us? So so I kind of OK, fine. So I ended up but when I went well, back when I was in New York, I met a woman who at the time was the fashion features editor at InStyle and met her through their friends. And so she I reached out to her and I said, I need a mentor. I need like someone to kind of guide me. And she was like, I'm all about women helping other women. So she's like, I cannot leave my desk. I do not have time to go to lunch or coffee with you. But if you come to my desk, just I'll eat a sandwich while we talk. I have 15 minutes. And she basically gave me a a template of how she did it and how she thought I should do it. As I said, I want to sit on your side of this desk, like in New York. How do I get there? And she said, OK, you need to build your clips locally and then those will give you eventually enough credibility for a national outlet to publish you. So that's what I was like. OK, so all the money I made basically went back into, like, sending myself places and then hopefully connecting those stories to an editor locally initially. [00:18:53][185.3]

[00:18:54] And then she would doing ad hoc, self assigned, ad hoc work basically. [00:18:59][5.5]

[00:19:00] Yeah, she connected me with Fox News Latino who wanted everything from the border because no one was willing to cross the border at the time. And so I did the first like want to designers and they took it and they were willing to take everything. And that's how I kind of started writing nationally, even while I was basically since I've been a freelancer, even through the last few jobs that I've had as a full time staff writer, I never really give up my freelance. I probably nine months out of the year that I worked at Fox News Latino in New York because I eventually did work for them as a staff general assignment reporter. During that time I stopped because I was writing every single day. That's how I covered the Flint water crisis. I met you're in New York, so it's kind of like you're doing it's not really local because they're a national website, but you have access locally to just like you do in L.A., to celebrities and to big events. So I could kind of get out of the office, but also I didn't have to get out of the office to cover Flint, so. Everything has kind of built on everything else. I mean, San Diego got me I worked in San Diego, then I got to Dr. Phil. Then from there, I got from from Dr. Phil. I ended up going to New York to Fox News Latino than Fox News Latinos. [00:20:42][101.5]

[00:20:43] I end up coming back to L.A. Did you write for the Dr. Phil show or did you interview for them? [00:20:49][6.5]

[00:20:50] So I was working on the Dr. Phil, Dr. Phil, Dr. Phil Dotcom has a website that promotes episodes of the show. But then at the time, he had a vertical on Huffington Post and so he needed a ghostwriter. So he had a ghostwriter that he'd hired in New York. She was kind of like my editor. But my my idea to her was we have all these expert guests that come on to the show and no one really does anything with them. You know, he talks to them on the show and they're happy because they're on Dr. Phil show. But they'd be even happier to have additional coverage in Huffington Post. So I kind of convinced her that we could take some of those people and do like breakout columns for Dr. Phil because they were doing they needed constant content on Huffington Post. I was doing that. Plus I was doing social media because it was kind of like just an all hands in situation and so in the control room doing so. [00:21:53][62.3]

[00:21:53] I want to talk a little bit about that, because your career has the unique and fantastic. Well, perhaps even demonic moment of entering into social media. I mean, it, you know, and people there are going to be novels and encyclopedias dedicated to this. [00:22:11][18.6]

[00:22:12] And I don't have to go through all of it. But the way that writing changed in particular, we can get into social decorum and things of that nature changed absolutely everything. I think that news and hard news and those were kind of the final people to fall foul but really acquire it seems like there was a stronghold for a long time of like NUPE. We're doing things this way. And then it kind of came to be when you had it come about because you had this kind of self made journalistic, you know, career and background. Did you find the absorption or the incorporation of social media in your writing career to be more fluent than your colleagues? Or was it strange you say like, you know, you're doing some social media for Dr. Phil? [00:23:00][48.1]

[00:23:02] Yeah. All of a sudden I was in charge of the Twitter account, and I have no idea how that became my purview. [00:23:05][3.4]

[00:23:06] Well, that was kind of what I mean when I started the blog, I had I I threw myself into social media because you couldn't not I mean, you had to. [00:23:17][11.2]

[00:23:18] So for me, I got the job at San Diego Union Tribune, not because I wanted to be a reporter. They had plenty of those, although I had to beg them to let me be a reporter. But I really got in there because they thought I knew so much about social media because I had been I was given this the awarded best blogger in San Diego by San Diego magazine. [00:23:40][22.0]

[00:23:41] And so they thought best blogger, she must know about social media. And I mean, I knew whatever I had was self taught. And I guess that was probably more than other people now. I mean, I have friends who their kids are like they have a master's degree in public relations and they understand Facebook in a way that I cannot comprehend. I mean, they just are way above me in terms of analytics and their understanding is much deeper. But at the time I was at the at the Union Tribune, I was training other reporters who were begrudgingly going and having to do social media. They were pissed. They were like, we have to go on the field. We have to tweet about the story. We have to come back and file the story. And then, I mean, Dr. Phil, I got thrown into it in a major, major way. I wasn't the one directly posting, but I was editing someone who was posting all of the content. All of it had to go through everybody's hands before anything could go on. So on on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. So I, I was learning as I was going, but I was also expected to be an expert in it. And then at Fox, basically you put it up on Facebook or Twitter. I did launch their Snapchat channel that they came to me and asked me to do that. And I needed a tutorial from my friend's daughter. And we sat at Chipotle for like thirty minutes. And then, I mean, I liked it. It was actually really fun. I did an entire I did a Snapchat was supposed to be covering the Puerto Rican Day parade. I was going to be fun. I was just taking pictures and doing little drawings on it was so easy and then Pulse nightclub hit, so I get a call from my editor like stop the Snapchat of the Puerto Rican Day Parade. It makes us look like we don't care about because when pulse broke, nobody knew at first it was like, oh, there was a shooting. Oh, my God, there's a catastrophic shooting. So I said, I'm not going to stop. But what I'm going to do is we're going to cover this. We're going to use Snapchat. We're going to cover it by interviewing these huge contingents of gay people who are at the Reunion Day Parade who are from Miami. So it was perfect. So we used Snapchat, which was an odd kind of thing, but it worked. If you're fluent enough to make it work. Now, Snapchat is kind of I don't even know if anyone's using Snapchat anymore. I guess maybe a little bit, but it's kind of veered away. [00:26:21][159.8]

[00:26:21] It's getting Dalbandin. It's not the darling that it was supposed to come. Instagram is no longer the darling. People are getting off. [00:26:29][7.5]

[00:26:29] They're tightening up their algorithm. Right. Which is great. But yeah, it's supposed to turn to Pinterest and YouTube or the next. Yeah. Girls of them. [00:26:38][8.7]

[00:26:39] Yeah. Oh, God. Pinterest was I mean, there were editors at San Diego Union Tribune who were they had design columns and I and I had to teach them how to use Pinterest. And it seemed like the most important thing in the world at the time. Now I'm sure they're happy that it's not. But but now in my job now, half my job is spent making sure that the news is socialized and looking at Sharpey, looking at Google Analytics, my my supervisor's news directors and program, and they're all want to know what's working and why. [00:27:18][39.5]

[00:27:20] I still don't know if there's an answer to that. I mean, I've told him regularly that I think it's like throw it on the wall and see what sticks. I mean, I think timing is knowing your demographic is, but thinking that you can game the system by figuring out every Wednesday at noon you're going to capture that audience. Not necessarily. [00:27:38][18.4]

[00:27:39] You know, especially in that I mean, in your industry, I think there's a lot of money made and a lot of tears shed over someone promising years based on Google Analytics, because they're they're real numbers. [00:27:54][14.4]

[00:27:54] But interpretation of them is archaic Latin to most people and say, look, they mean this, but they may very well not necessarily be correlated. [00:28:04][9.3]

[00:28:05] Yeah. So I love everyone I talk to talks about the Google analytics numbers, but no one quite knows exactly what that means in correlation to their career. [00:28:13][8.0]

[00:28:13] Self enough. Not really. Yeah. I mean, it makes people happy when there's lots of engagement, but and it makes me happy if I, if I have a story and I really want to have a reach. [00:28:24][10.5]

[00:28:24] But I mean, I think now it's impossible to well, maybe not impossible. But from the people that I know, I don't know any journalists who have the great good fortune of not having to be a part of social media. I don't know anyone now. I mean, it's just I just don't think it's become their they're they're kissing cousins. You have to be able to understand both. And it's the way that you promote yourself and your work. Absolutely. [00:28:56][32.2]

[00:28:58] Yeah, it is. It's a tool of communication. And you can kind of get past some of the laboris. I think in the beginning it was the informality. It was a lot of the idiosyncratic details of the childishness attached to it. But once you get past that, it's another lens. It's another language of communication. [00:29:15][16.9]

[00:29:16] Yeah. And I'll just kind of move on with it. I'm wondering, with your so you've started you've launched into another endeavor called Beseen. Can you kind of walk us through that a little bit. [00:29:26][10.4]

[00:29:27] So, you know, I love what I do as a journalist, but I'm dependent again on pitching to editors. And what are the limitations? [00:29:38][10.2]

[00:29:38] I mean, now we have about five. So in California, which limits freelancers to thirty five stories a year for that outlet content, brand content marketing, if you love, as I see it, if you love to write, this is just another avenue where you can write about something. You're not dealing with the kind of budgetary constraints that you're dealing with. An editorial journalism. I mean, I've I was laid off at Dr. Phil with thirteen other people. Three of them were pregnant women. I mean, it's ruthless. I then went to New York for Fox News Latino when Trump was elected, Fox News Latino went under because. It just wasn't in alignment with their brand any longer to refer to Latino people as undocumented as opposed to illegal, and so it the site went under. [00:30:34][56.1]

[00:30:36] But if it wasn't a political or ethical decision, it's a monetary decision. If it's not a monetary decision, it's somebody buys it and just decides to go with it, go in a different direction with that outlet. I think it's just too it just fluctuates too much. So if we can open ourselves up and I'm doing this with my husband because he's a fantastic editor and and a great writer and a photographer, we thought, let's try to see if we can take these years of experience that we have and create something where we have a little bit more control and we can make money that we deserve to make for what we create. I think we all got hit in the head when in two thousand eight journalism fell and you did have bloggers like who just kind of, you know, watered down the content to the point that. People who are professional journalists for a very long time were competing with people who just were like, you know, people on the street who could just throw something up on their phone. And I think we're getting back to that. I know an outlet like Medium used to anyone can write for medium. You can sign up for medium. If you want to write, you can put your content there. But if you want to pitch to an editor, you get a dollar a word. Now, we should be way past a dollar word because that's what it was a really long time ago. That was a starting point for writers. And then we have to go through all this other stuff to get back to this. But it's still just to it's it's just a career that's in flux. And I'd rather try to open more avenues if you have a skill. And, you know, it seems to me like the more places you could try to to to garner money, garner opportunities, garner ways of just getting your content out there. To me, if you love to write and like to work with words, it's just one more big opportunity that makes sense. Just makes sense. [00:33:06][150.0]

[00:33:07] Yeah. So what is beseen what's the nesh how does it is it content marketing. Who can approach it. [00:33:13][5.7]

[00:33:13] Who can work for it. How do you help people out. Who. Your clients. [00:33:16][3.4]

[00:33:17] So we've just started, we're hoping to target business like one of the we're internally kind of going after people that we know right now. We're starting with our own network. So that would be, for example, a company that has clients like Rebel Mouse, which is a platform. So Rebel Mouse is a platform where you can launch your your website and clients come to Rebel Mouse to launch their website. But the clients don't have enough content. And one of the things they have this great product, but they just don't have enough content. So we would go in and we would say, OK, let's clean up the CEO bio. Let's look at your website. Are your is is what you're saying about your brand really representative of your brand? We we're targeting non-profits. We'd like to target universities. I mean, we're kind of open at this point to see where things go. I don't know. It could end up technology. It could end up medical. I mean, I think health and wellness, you know, it'll be interesting to see where we end up kind of falling. I think we're we're at this point, it's just feels like it's a wide open. [00:34:43][85.3]

[00:34:44] Well, it is. And I think it's because of and I don't know which one happened first, if the industry became that way and then you you guys decided to move in and clean things up or vice versa. [00:34:55][10.9]

[00:34:55] But there's this incredible need to kind of flush out some of the more succinct nature of even some of the best websites for communication. Companies are just lost and convoluted. You know, I myself doing research. I fancy myself a really fast researcher. I've been in the game a long time and everyone is pitching themselves as a coach and a mentor here and all of these terms that are just useless. Now, right in the beginning, we're pretty hyperbolic to begin with anyway. And nobody's defining themselves, defining their terms, defining their services. And so I think that this kind of watchdog service is coming in and really fleshing out the axiomatic roots of what someone is, what they're providing, their service, their tool or anything like that, their brand. All of that unification is wildly necessary on every side. I think you're right. [00:35:55][59.8]

[00:35:56] And I think helping people tell their story. I think as a journalist, it's one of the things that when you sit down and talk to someone, you know, as you know, on a podcast, you start to get people's stories. [00:36:08][11.9]

[00:36:09] And they didn't even know that they had that story. If you have a brand, for example, it may be a fantastic brand, but it's not reaching communities of color. Well, OK, but maybe that they're doing something every day and every year and they maybe they contribute money or maybe they have stories from the people who work there that they just never mind those stories. [00:36:33][23.8]

[00:36:34] And it's that kind of thing where we can kind of go in and using just plain kind of who, what, where, when, why journalism to try to clean up what they're the the. Their voice and voice and help them find their voice and yeah, so I mean, I think that's kind of that's that's what we're hoping to do. [00:36:55][21.5]

[00:36:56] So given that, are your goals for the next three to five years to just clean up American literature at large, copy on the Web on the planet? [00:37:08][11.9]

[00:37:10] I mean, I think it's hard to say the three year goal. Always. It always you know, it's a toughie. But I think if I had any goal for us is that we would be able to talk to work from wherever we live. That's kind of where that's really the number one thing that we're focused on now is to be able to go on vacation, get up in the morning in our great hotel and work and and say we're going to spend X amount of time in this place and still be able to work. So it's partly I think the goal for the company is to make enough money that we can obviously survive and do well and feel great, but also to have the freedom so that we're really just not so dependent on one organization. We can kind of we have multiple sources of income and and we get to kind of be creative and pick and choose. And to me, that would be like the dream. That's the dream. [00:38:16][65.8]

[00:38:16] Absolutely. Freedom, global citizenship. I like that. Yes. [00:38:20][3.5]

[00:38:21] So if you ran into somebody tomorrow who she was walking along, caught your attention for a minute and said, listen, I just got done with Carnegie Mellon and a stint in New York City, acting was not my gig. [00:38:35][13.7]

[00:38:35] Appreciate the time there. I'm going to return to doing some writing. I'm not sure exactly what to do or how to get started. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give her? [00:38:45][9.4]

[00:38:48] I would say to her, find what you really are most interested in writing about, first off, because if you're if you're dedicated and devoted to that thing and that thing help you wake up in the morning excited to do that thing, then you'll be willing to and and somehow prepared to face the challenges of that, the pitches that get rejected and the people who say no to you, but you can keep going. So I think finding that thing that you love to do is critical. I also think we live in a world where you can do so much without other people. You can start a blog. You can you can put it on a website, you can do a podcast, and then don't think of those things necessarily as the as the end, but as the beginning as the modern form of a calling card. [00:39:47][59.4]

[00:39:51] You never know where things will lead and lastly, and absolutely make your friends close, keep your friends close and your enemies closer, because those connections, the networking and and meeting people and not burning bridges has been to me has been pretty vital. Like, you never know when you need that person to help you out in some way. [00:40:17][26.8]

[00:40:18] So put your ego aside, because this is not a business that is I don't think you can thrive on having an ego. I mean, I think you have to take jobs sometimes that are less money than you want to take. And certainly in the beginning and you have to be willing to accept that this Ed may love what you did. And this Ed may not like what you did. And you have to make those changes and those adjustments or this client, if it's beseen whatever to or if it's to me. I have a huge ego about my own self personally, you know, but I don't have it in my work because it's not going to help me, you know? I mean, it's just not you have to be able to accept that, you know, you have to be able to accept that kind of criticism. So absolutely. By three things. Yeah. [00:41:14][55.8]

[00:41:14] So find what you're most interested and passionate about so you can wade through some of the beginning muck. [00:41:20][5.1]

[00:41:21] And there's plenty of mediums to get out there and start writing to keep you going and keep your friends close and your enemies closer. [00:41:28][6.9]

[00:41:32] We're out of time. But I want to say thank you so much for taking the time this New Year. Twenty twenty is a is going to be a good one. I can feel it in my bunk. So to thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. [00:41:43][11.8]

[00:41:44] Guys, we've been talking with Rebekah Sager. You can contact her at Rebekah Sager dot com and. Yeah, thanks again, Rebekah. [00:41:52][8.4]

[00:41:53] And until we talk again next time, everyone, thank you for your time. And remember to always bet on yourself, Slainte. [00:41:53][0.0]

[2437.7]

View Details

Interview with Abigail Jones: Co-Founder of Cairn Leadership. "Cairn Leadership harnesses the unique power of shared outdoor adventure to develop business leaders and their teams. Abigail drives Cairn Leadership's process to activate leader and team potential through team development, coaching, and retreats for organizations."

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company website Wild Dot Agency. That's why L DEA agents see for my personal website. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:25][77.9]

[00:01:29] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Abigail Jones. Abigail is the co-founder and CEO of Care and Leadership. Welcome, Abigail. [00:01:39][9.9]

[00:01:41] Thank you. Thank you for having me. [00:01:42][1.4]

[00:01:42] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of climb into what you're doing and what your company does for everyone listening. I'll read a quick bio on Abigail, but also tell you a roadmap for today's podcast. We're first going to look at Abigail's academic background and early professional life. Then we'll turn our attention to unpacking current leadership and the current endeavors within that logistics of who, what, when, where, why and how. And then we'll also look at kind of the ethos and the more philosophical structures behind the company. Then we'll look towards Abigail's goals that she has for Karen leadership and perhaps herself over the next few years. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she may have. For those of you looking to get involved or kind of mirror some of her structural history, you can locate every more information regarding Karen leadership on their website. Karen, leadership dot com. That is c i r n d e r s epeat dot com. A quick bio on Abigail Karen leadership harnesses the unique power of shared outdoor adventure to develop business leaders and their teams. Abigail drives Karen Leadership's process to activate leader and team potential through team development, coaching and retreats for organizations. [00:02:55][72.8]

[00:02:57] So I like that. It's very tight and neat, Abigail. But first I want to get before we get into Karen leadership, I want to climb into your academic background and early professional life. So can you start us off with where you went to school? [00:03:11][13.9]

[00:03:12] Yes, I went to undergrad at UC San Diego right up the road and studied international sociology and linguistics and just fascinated by how people make sense of and understand the world and the capacity, the sort of range for how people live and make meaning and really how people develop and learn best. So near the end of my academic time there, I started taking classes in the Education Department and with a lab that was situated to do university and community partnerships called the Lab of Comparative Human Cognition. So it's really the sister science to cognitive science which was born. So it was this interdisciplinary academic. Playground for me to be able to develop skills where I had to definitely learn how to balance priorities when working with both the university and the community and develop programing in a multicultural setting down in southeast San Diego. So I was the Community Wellness Research Lead there for five years after I graduated. So that was a really good way to stay close to academia. I've always been really close wanting to know what's happening in the research and and turn around and be able to apply that and whatever work I'm doing to help people. And that's where I started off. And through that, I actually attended a mindfulness conference and I was doing some work with the community in southeast San Diego with yoga, social emotional literacy and healthy cooking and these sorts of things. But it was at this mindfulness conference that I learned improv as a tool to teach mindfulness, particularly loud group. Mindfulness is another way to sort of look at improv. And so that's where I got to taste that and then dove fully into improvizational comedy as a way to develop my skills as a facilitator and public speaker. [00:05:27][134.7]

[00:05:28] So that was an amazing pairing. I never think of improv when I think of mindfulness. I mean, the person who created that kind of pedagogical lenses is fascinating into the concept itself. [00:05:40][12.4]

[00:05:40] But how so? You brought that more into full fruition and started like endeavoring into improv. Did you do standup? Did you what did you do with that one? [00:05:50][9.3]

[00:05:50] Standup is distinctly different, right? That's a singular, more ego based, prepared line of work, whereas improv is necessarily group necessarily spontaneous and develops this kind of trust in your teammates. So I took workshops, started performing with a small group locally, not affiliated with any theaters, but I have a great teacher. And then we just broke off and continued to do improvizational work and small shows as just like a private group. And so that just grew. And from that I partnered with a fella up in North County who was doing consulting work for educational leaders at a higher level for a long time. So we developed Mindful Games for Leaders, a series of workshops that was based on teaching mindfulness through improvization and traditional, like contemplative practices based on the research. So they were affiliated with Stanford's Medical School Program on Mindful Research Awareness and up at UCLA, the programs associated with compassion, cultivation and that the brain research around that. So that was fun to be able to, again, stay close to the research and apply it to people in everyday life and just see what that same practice really flexing my facilitation on what it means to lead a group, REM and within now I'm getting I feel like I might have some limited understanding as well. [00:07:30][100.0]

[00:07:30] So you're going to have to bear with my naiveté. But with improv, I always think of comedy. [00:07:34][4.0]

[00:07:35] And so I think that I feel like maybe your definition of improv is encompassing other things, or I am like misunderstanding because I'm wondering how you're putting action items behind, like the concept of mindful improvizational development within action, you know, within community. Can you point to specific examples of how that's kind of embodied so I can understand it? [00:07:59][24.4]

[00:08:02] Well, what's funny is it's true, right, what gets an audience to laugh is more of relatable actual things. And so one of the activities that I've done this year more than once is to use the disc assessment. That's a tool that older style, communication style and work style preferences. And so once you've taken that assessment, you can identify who you are and you break off into groups. We use roleplaying as a way for folks to make this short, somewhat improvizational role playing scenario of each other so that they can in this kind of way, like use hyperbole, use exaggeration, use this playful sort of in the moment raw and fun, really, to to exaggerate the qualities of their teammates and sort of name these general preferences and be able to then use them and apply at work. Knowing that Sally prefers she'd make deliberate information processed with charts and graphs and sort of things that are that are general and that can help you operate more efficiently as a team just knowing these patterns. [00:09:28][86.0]

[00:09:29] So is that to what end is is it to increase the dynamism and communication within teams, these kinds of tasks and team building and exercises? [00:09:40][10.6]

[00:09:40] Is that like is it to increase the productivity via communication within a group of people? [00:09:47][6.4]

[00:09:48] It is if it comes from professional development. What I love about improv, too, is it translates so much into the intangible capital of personal relationships that people can apply in their everyday lives. So building that sort of productivity efficiency ahli is that is the end game especially and the first conversations. [00:10:12][23.7]

[00:10:12] But what's so great about the work that we do and now as we'll get into taking that work outside, is that people are developing holistically. So they're engaged and they're having fun and they're recognizing the value of the skills they're building for their entire team of their relationships. [00:10:28][15.9]

[00:10:29] Because what are we other than our relationships are relational lives and how we choose to organize ourselves both at home and at work. So it's fun to be able to. [00:10:41][11.6]

[00:10:42] Tells make things OK, so you were at you did the lab of the human cognition and then it sounds like you went to one of their actual centers and for five years did more of the public implementation, which I think is arduous unto itself. [00:10:56][13.9]

[00:10:56] For people who don't know the intersection between where academia meets public utility and employment is so convoluted and sometimes can be the most congested. [00:11:07][10.8]

[00:11:08] And it's tragic because it's the I feel like it's the most necessary to where theory meets practice in every form. And academia is kind of famous for having these verbose theories that when they go to implementation, don't make a ton of sense. The entire field of computer programing to get a degree in computer science and computer programing, at least back in the OTS, was studying a whole bunch of theory that had nothing to do with the code you were going to write for the next 40 years. And so and that's like the impetus because it's such a prevalent field right now that I like to use for people and saying getting that utility out of academia is is crucial, but it's also really hard done. [00:11:47][39.0]

[00:11:48] And so it sounds like this lab that you were at, the was it the lab of human cognition, one of their cognition? [00:11:56][8.5]

[00:11:57] Yeah, OK. Yeah. And then you were doing that for five years. What happened with you after that? Did you take some of those lessons and form KARREN leadership or what was the kind of the birth of it? [00:12:07][10.4]

[00:12:09] Yeah, and the huge lesson there, too, is that qualitative research being able to take observation of a situation, of a space of the tools, activities and environments from almost an anthropological viewpoint and be able to observe the world and look at data points that are more in the field capacity. So that was a huge take away from that training as well. But I stayed close to 60 and personally and invested in giving back to the military. It's not coming from my family, but a later relationship has my heart and given back to the military. And so UCSD Rady School of Management offers a Veterans Ventures program for military service members to transition into entrepreneurship. And I was concurrently taking business management certificate program at UCSD, just interested in business, interested in staying close to academia, but also using the power of business and. To to drive change, really, and through that program, I started just with helping them develop the program from the ground up and seeing what that was needed for this accelerator type program through the years, they would have a full cohort and a spring cohort. And I it was the second year that that was happening. This was last year. Exactly. And they gave me rain to lead a multiday retreat that was professional and personal development for the fall cohort of twenty eighteen. So I put together a series of speakers. I got the venue and coaches to fly up to Reno, Nevada, and we had this retreat and it was actually I had been also working as an intern in the leadership development firm here in San Diego, which is a boutique offshoot that was a small team, mostly from the Center for Creative Leadership. So I got to see through the years some of that corporate training, the coaching, the and how a company like that grows from the ground up. And it was a great experience. I was grateful to learn from them. And we had some values that were distinctly different. And so that was an interesting point to realize that they didn't necessarily see professional and personal development in tandem and the value that would happen in this holistic development kind of way. There was a lot of overlap between us, but I ended up leaving that small boutique company. I've got my wilderness first responder training to do some more corporate retreats, just consulting sort of work. It seems random. [00:15:02][172.6]

[00:15:03] Have you always been a wilderness person? The wilderness? [00:15:05][2.6]

[00:15:07] They are. But I was I was sort of I got consulting work throughout the years in leadership development because of my facilitation in the corporate world. And they just happened to have like semi outdoor venues and be working at camping retreats. And they suggested that I get a wilderness first responder training. And I, I, I acknowledge the power of being able to have that first aid, have that like caring for people. [00:15:37][29.6]

[00:15:37] And I'm not opposed to the outdoors. I snowboard, I surf, I like but I don't I didn't necessarily grow up that way. It's something I cultivated later in life. I just I have a craving for adventure for sure. [00:15:49][11.6]

[00:15:49] That's been the through line throughout. But I didn't necessarily think that that could be built into the company until I met my business partner night. So he I met him and I hired him for the retreat that I ran for UCSD Veterans Ventures program. And then he was already running this leadership development company that was using the outdoors to activate potential to build trust, to do all the things I was used to doing in a conference room used to doing in these very corporate settings with PowerPoint, these sorts of things. [00:16:21][32.4]

[00:16:22] And he was just taking it to the next level with that outdoor venue, essentially. [00:16:27][5.5]

[00:16:28] And so he is a national outdoor leadership school. Noles, have you heard of that company? [00:16:33][5.3]

[00:16:34] I have. Where did you guys meet? You hired him for this, but where did you find him so funny? [00:16:40][6.0]

[00:16:41] It's it's actually we my girlfriends were visiting from Minnesota where I grew up, and we took a Lyft ride from a restaurant down the street. And I talked to everyone. That is my I just am interested in people. I'm unconscionably curious. And so talking to our Lyft driver, I told him somehow by the bulk of what I was doing in the fact that I needed one more coach, one more person. And he was a fella who is in the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce. And he said, You mean if you just connected us so it's a live driver and basically talk to strangers and then the rest is history. We just started to after that after that retreat and seeing him work, we started to hike and climb and realize our values. And we created a flagship program for people to open and roll and be able to come on adventures with us. Sort of. Separate from their teams so that we could really get the ball rolling and create what we needed in the kind of way to it's like we want professional development that is not contrived, that is not based on these transactional situations, that's just going to be more fulfilled. So. [00:18:05][83.6]

[00:18:06] Right, OK, so let's climb into it. So it sounds like it was launched with you and Knight. When did you guys launch Karen Leadership? [00:18:14][8.8]

[00:18:16] He had started the company late in twenty eighteen, almost just right when we left. He'd come from the Naval Academy, launched the business and sort of built the structure of the business and was not was a singleton. And his wife was involved too. But she's also an orthopedic surgeon, so she's got her own fish to fry. And so he had built the structure of the business. And we officially partnered in April of last year of twenty nineteen. [00:18:46][30.5]

[00:18:48] And did you reach did you rename it or was it just being called Karen Leadership. [00:18:53][5.0]

[00:18:55] It was our knight named it Karen Leadership. [00:18:56][1.7]

[00:18:58] All right. And let's get to the name really quickly. Where did the name come from? [00:19:01][3.5]

[00:19:03] So tonight is trained as a mountaineer through Noles, and he's done countless backpacking mountaineering expeditions throughout his personal life, and it was with one particular expedition with his wife, Leanne, where they were on a glacier in Alaska and windblown zero visibility. And then in the process of looking for a name as a backdrop to the story, but saw the glimpse of these stacked rocks. And that is the universal sign that you are going the right way, that somebody has been here before and that you are on the path. And so that that visual of that stacked rocks is what Karen means. And for me, that also just resonates so strongly of it's just such a powerful symbol to. To to define leadership, and so it's it's a cool symbol to stand behind, I'm proud to do so, yeah. [00:20:11][68.2]

[00:20:11] Blocks being built on one another in all symbolic formats. I mean, in art history as well. Rock formations and rock towers have been built since the beginning of the beginning. And they've they've always stood for kind of a solidified strength and a signal of of unity and strength. So that does that does resonate with me as well. So the two founders, are you and Knight, is there anybody else who who's come on board or is just the two of you as far as the foundation goes? [00:20:40][29.0]

[00:20:41] Just so the foundation goes and then we'll bring on coaches, facilitators and guides on a contract basis as we need. [00:20:49][7.7]

[00:20:50] OK, so walk me through the structure a little bit, because it feels like if you're going to spend enough of the industry, you're going to have to call in as you're as you just said, you know, a lot of different special specific specialized coaches and people to do different things to, depending on who your client is, is kind of going to manicure what particular outdoor event you suggest for this. [00:21:15][25.0]

[00:21:16] Right. And even the activities within that event. [00:21:18][2.3]

[00:21:19] To a certain extent, and I have a pretty large capacity for what we eat, for the ground that we cover, so that's what's helpful is we are able to do a lot and the weather is mostly permitting here in San Diego. So that's also a huge help. But we have permits and insurance and gear for up to 20 people to take rock climbing out in Mission Gorge. And we can easily do that. He and I and similarily for hikes, we can do that for up to 50 people up in mission trails between the two of us. And then as far as kayaking stand up paddleboarding, that sort of thing will bring in and hire a company or a few expert guides to take on that kind of rain. But as we're developing more into our comprehensive leadership development programs for scaling companies, what we really are coming to is just hiring on coaches and making sure that we're on the same level to do that one on one work and then all coming together at these periodic times, six months, one year later to do these team development events. But we can we can pulsate pretty easily in terms of we are the foundational structure and have aligned coaching methodologies. And then we just deploy about one on one. We have meetings to make sure that we are consistent in our structure. And then we're able to you know, we've built we build these relationships over time and make sure we have the right people on board to to outsource the coaching. But the the guiding and the facilitation, we do that ourselves, too. So we're not coming in cold, hiring people, doing something we don't wouldn't do or couldn't do ourselves. So we have a pretty good read on it. [00:23:08][108.4]

[00:23:08] How long does it take you to write? Kind of a diet? You come, you have a client that comes in. I'm assuming you run some kind of a diagnostics as to what could benefit their company most with one of these excursions. [00:23:19][10.6]

[00:23:20] And then within that excursion, you're going to have I would imagine it's not just the hike or just the climb or just the Paderborn. It's these kinds of activities, this communication building activities that you did back with improvizational, mindful development of those types of things. How do you construct you have boiler plate mentalities where you can kind of just curate everything to the client's needs or do you start from scratch each and every time? [00:23:47][27.5]

[00:23:49] Yeah, I mean, there's it's a little bit of both. There is some custom design based on our discovery phase of the process, which we build in to the bid. But we we do have just plug in place solutions that sort of buckets of conversation. So if a team comes in and they just want one single team development event, we have a roadmap to say what are the skills you want to work on? What's the activity you want to do and where do you want to be? Just boom, boom, boom. It's so easy. One page sort of back and forth where we don't do that in depth discovery. But if you ideally want to be with us for comprehensive leadership development, for instance, or a scaling company that we just put this together is going to be a year long process. We'll do multiple team development events based on where you start and where you want to go. And then so there's more of that discovery phase. But we still have these buckets of categories of sort of where, depending on where the company is at, if they're more senior versus more brand new, fresh managers, fresh leaders who have never, you know, had to harness the power of a team and get everyone aligned. And on the same page, we can start from the beginning a little bit more. So it's a little bit of both. [00:25:09][79.9]

[00:25:10] Do you have any powerful, like stats or any ideas like how you pitch? Because I always having been around the block and back again twenty two times over, I'm always telling people you can never have your team to take, you know, even the most loquacious and best of friends. Team of five, you know, making a unicorn salary can still benefit from team building, I would say at least a bi yearly checkup. Every six months of getting out and doing some kind of an excursion or having another lens applied to your company always yield something. So, you know, this being Karen leadership's lens and things of that nature, what do you tell your clients when they approach or how you do guarantee them that it's going to lend information or knowledge, or do you provide them with tangible resources in the end? How does all of that work? [00:26:06][56.2]

[00:26:08] Yeah, I mean, as far as for the implementation process, they we give them a report based on where they're at now, that sort of diagnostic for where they're at with the actual it's hard to quantify necessarily the results of these relationship building skills, but we tend to I mean, there's really great research just on overall engagement and turnover and retention in these sorts of things. But we have the the testimonials speak pretty highly in terms of our clients and what they've gained. And so it's a lot of quality to feedback that we're getting. And we're figuring out measures on how to quantify the results of our programs. But it's if you're not investing in developing your people at this age of employee experience, where there's this expectation that people will feel appreciated and get that sense that their leaders are looking to actively develop their skills. And so we tend to get that. We tend to get leaders on board who are who know that they have to do the stay any kind of current, especially with this millennial leadership starting to emerge. So we haven't encountered too many of the nonbeliever's yet. There's there's a pretty strong group of scaling companies that already are on board with this. [00:27:39][91.0]

[00:27:39] But, yeah, absolutely. And the literature is there anyway from other aspects. I'm wondering, looking forward, just because you've come on board this year, you're headed it and we're now in twenty twenty, you're headed into your next year. [00:27:52][13.3]

[00:27:53] What are the goals that you personally have for yourself in dealing with current leadership and then the company? What does KARREN leadership aspire to over like let's say the next three to five years. [00:28:05][11.9]

[00:28:06] Yeah, we're excited actually. Just before the holidays we signed a contract with new CSC School of Management to teach there the same Veterans Ventures program through which I met. We are now running that accelerator program starting in February. And we have done we did work last year with UPS and we'll be doing so again this year at their convention in twenty twenty. So really what we're looking at is three or four core clients to do comprehensive leadership development, which we really want to build that relationship with the team and stay with as they're growing and scaling. So getting those core company alliances that we have and then we're building society to have these quarterly adventures mixed with leadership coaching where we are offering that rhythm for people to open and roll and do that leadership development on their own, regardless of their company. And so right now, that's rolling. We have quarterly trips planned for this year. And so making that internationally available and moving outside of Southern California is something we're already looking at for twenty, twenty one to move into, especially the Pacific Northwest, to have KRUX society chapters and other cities to have leadership realms that are in these different quadrants of the United States running these outdoor adventures mixed with leadership coaching to go on. [00:29:38][92.1]

[00:29:39] It sounds like with your international clients like ups and stuff like that, that'll be a natural transition as well. [00:29:44][5.5]

[00:29:44] It's going to have an easy momentum, a self momentum of its own, if you will, and think. Yeah. [00:29:51][6.2]

[00:29:52] All right, one more piece, but we don't we are just starting to unveil two is just this executive leadership retreat. These these sort of off the books, private expeditions that people are starting to hire us to do instead of going on, say, like an eight day Noles trip in Wyoming, which leaders can do to hire us for just weekend retreats or semi smaller retreats just for like high level executive teams, which we're already starting to see where we have one in March. [00:30:24][32.2]

[00:30:25] I can hardly believe it sold out and then is just scaling from there in terms of higher level leadership offerings that absolutely have sound like they would be a lot more applicable to smaller companies or things like that as well. [00:30:39][14.3]

[00:30:39] They can't take a full week off without kind of going under. You know, it sounds like your client base is going to be bigger. So if you were bumping into someone tomorrow, let's say another woman or female identified or non binary individual, and they asked you for your top three pieces of advice as far as getting into and launching their own kind of coaching or leadership coaching company. What are the top three pieces of things that you've kind of acquired over the past one to five years regarding this process that you could tell that person? [00:31:15][35.6]

[00:31:19] Definitely to ask questions, ask more questions and stay curious and in whatever role you're in and. [00:31:30][10.7]

[00:31:33] To. [00:31:33][0.0]

[00:31:37] Especially in that same sort of vein, challenge the assumptions about what is possible, so pushing boundaries and and I think that comes from this place of curiosity, but being bold in the kind of way that you take action from the answers that you get from those questions and knowing that there's more room likely to move than you think at first within the structure of even how you organize your day to the structure of where you sit in your company and what you could be doing. There's often more room than you think and. [00:32:14][37.3]

[00:32:17] I mean, I get outside is very cliche, but what I mean, I think by that our values are explore, connect and excel. [00:32:27][10.0]

[00:32:28] So moving beyond the boundaries is this explore piece connecting building bridges both with people and between disparate ideas like leadership in the outdoors. You wouldn't think they could go together, but what would a bridge between those ideas look like and then do absolutely everything with completeness, with full attention to detail and care, care about the way that you do the small things and it just translates up into the daily habitual quality of attention you cultivate. That's what gets you to be able to sort of. Between low level tasks and these high level, intense conversations is the care you take along the way in the process of taking care of yourself and your professional development at the same time. Does this care? Absolutely. [00:33:16][48.2]

[00:33:18] Those are awesome. I've got ask questions, take serious challenge assumptions. [00:33:21][3.5]

[00:33:22] There's more room to move and create than you would think and get outside, explore and then connect, develop all those things that you have. I like those three pieces. I think those are awesome. And they're much more philosophical than a lot of people come up with. So it's like another mantra unto itself. We're out of time today, Abigail, but I wanted to say thank you so much for all of your information and speaking with us today. [00:33:47][25.6]

[00:33:48] I know it's just after the new year and people are still kind of in recovery from all of those yummy treats and sweets and partying. And so thank you for talking with me. [00:33:56][8.6]

[00:33:57] Yes. Thank you so much for having me. [00:33:59][1.7]

[00:33:59] Absolutely. I'll circle back around. I love the newness of what you're doing. And I think in a year's time, it's going to be a grand experience, an adventure to kind of climb back over your last year. [00:34:12][12.5]

[00:34:12] So we'll try to circle back around next January and see where you're at. See if we can make some time for another quick interview with you. [00:34:19][6.9]

[00:34:20] Sounds good, looking forward to it. [00:34:22][1.7]

[00:34:22] Awesome. And to everyone listening, thank you so much for your time. And until we speak again. Remember to always bet on yourself, Slainte. [00:34:22][0.0]

[1979.6]

View Details

Interview with Ashlee Ammons: Co-Founder of Mixtroz a data collection and integration company that increases engagement and collects data at gatherings. Mixtroz services dozens of industries including education, enterprise, and events. Mixtroz.com

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company website Wild Dot Agency. That's why L DEA agents see or my personal website. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:25][77.9]

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back, this is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Ashlee Ammons. She is the co-founder and president at MCS TROs. Welcome, Ashlee. [00:01:39][8.9]

[00:01:40] Thank you, it's good to be here. [00:01:42][1.2]

[00:01:42] It's good to speak with you. Before I get into a quick bio on Ashlee, I want to give everyone a road map for today's podcast. We'll follow the same trajectory as the majority of the podcast. In this series, we'll first look at Ashlee's academic background and early professional life. Then we'll turn our attention towards unpacking, mix TROs. We'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, why and how, and then turn to the ethos and some of the philosophical structures of the company. Then we'll turn to the goals that Ashlee has for the next three years with mixed truths regarding scaling expansion, expansion, brand analysis and maybe some other more personal ones. And then we'll wrap the entire podcast up with advice that Ashlee has, looking for those to garner some knowledge from her history or also get involved in what she's doing, perhaps working in tandem with her. A quick bio on Ashlee before I start peppering her with questions. She's name to Entrepreneurs magazine inaugural's list of one hundred powerful women in twenty nineteen. Carrie Schrader and Ashlee Ammons are a dynamic mother daughter duo in the new wave of entrepreneurs creating services. [00:02:49][67.2]

[00:02:51] To make work and play simpler and more satisfying without formal tech backgrounds, they've blazed trails in the male dominated tech startup space with their company mixtures, which increases engagement and collects data at gatherings following remarkable progress in twenty seventeen team extras kicked off twenty eighteen by joining Alabama's prestigious Velocity Accelerator and starring on an episode of an E series Rooster and Butch. In May twenty eighteen, the duo was selected to pitch to AOL co-founder Steve Case during the Rise and Rest tour stop in Birmingham, Alabama, and secured a one hundred thousand dollar investment from Casey's revolution fund. The team went on to close a one million dollar round of funding, making them the thirty seventh and thirty eighth black females to ever close a one million dollar plus round of funding. [00:03:45][54.5]

[00:03:47] So it's exciting, actually. I want to climb into mixtures and kind of get into the ethos within that. [00:03:52][5.6]

[00:03:52] But first, before we do that, anyone who's looking to kind of pop into their website and get more into in depth information you can make Stroh's dot com is the domain mctear o.z dot com. And before we begin all of that, actually I'm wondering if you can walk us through a little bit of your academic background and your early professional life following that and before launching mixed Troas. [00:04:15][23.0]

[00:04:17] Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for the overview. I'm excited to have this conversation. So I am from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm actually here right now in Cleveland. And I went to undergrad in a small town in Ohio called Birria. It's about 15 minutes outside of Cleveland. The schools called Baldwin Wallace University. It's a it's a private liberal arts college. It's really well known for musical theater. Actually, we were the first college to get the rights to the Phantom of the Opera. And Andrew Lloyd Webber actually came out to the school when they performed it, which was pretty awesome. So a lot of my classmates are on Broadway. I see them often during like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. But I went to school for broadcasting mass communications and public relations. So those are the degrees that I graduated with. So my goal was to be a news anchor. That's where I thought I was going. But I ended up landing a an internship during my the like the spring of my sophomore year, and I became LeBron James first intern, actually. [00:05:22][65.7]

[00:05:24] Amazing. I mean, that's such a crazy first internship. Was there any other connections for that? [00:05:30][6.4]

[00:05:30] Did you I mean, did you have Connector's college professors, people hooking up with that or was it just a blind application? [00:05:36][6.0]

[00:05:38] So what's so crazy about this is this kind of feeds into why I'm so passionate about not just networking, but connecting with people, being able to connect with anyone agnostic of where they come from, what they look like, any of that. Like I believe that everyone should be able to talk to anyone. And so the internship actually came from a random conversation between an upper classmen and myself. He and I looked nothing like one another. If you just looked at us, if you just looked at us dead on, you'd be like, oh, there's no way that these people would buy. But actually, me and the classmate had a great conversation one night and he sent an email and about three weeks later, I was the Browns intern. It's as simple as that. So I tell people all the time that ability to be able to connect with people is so important because you never know who is going to open the LeBron door. Let's call it for you. [00:06:29][50.6]

[00:06:29] Absolutely. And that's power networking, right? Blindly and openly. I guess that's amazing. So after your how long does the internship last and what did you do after that? [00:06:39][9.6]

[00:06:40] Yeah, so two and a half years in that internship and it was such a cool time to be with LeBron because, you know, in Cleveland and in Ohio, he I mean, he's such a huge deal with such a huge deal. [00:06:53][12.5]

[00:06:53] And it's funny, I was kind of nonchalant about the whole thing because I was just like, OK, I mean, he plays basketball cool, but just understanding how huge he actually is, the global appeal he actually has. I was working on things like his marketing summit when he would bring the biggest executives from Coca-Cola and Nike to Akron, Ohio. I remember we had to do that summit at the Hilton. That was like the nicest hotel in Akron, Ohio. So, I mean, it was just very it was just very, very interesting. So after after I graduated, I stayed on with LeBron about six months postgrad. And it's funny, I live with my aunt here in Lorraine, Ohio, and I'm literally walking around her living room right now. And then I start a job for job hunting in New York City. For whatever reason, I had always wanted to go to New York City, like I was like, you know, spent the majority of my life in just smaller places in the burbs and I was just ready for city life. And so I went on three different interviews and I would like basically save all my money. And I would get I would take one which I would buy like one way ticket back and forth from Cleveland to New York. And I would go on interview and then I would fly right back. And so I did that three times. Third time was a charm. And so I got a job as an executive assistant. The person that I was working for was quite extraordinary. His name is no whatever word. You can certainly Google him. He owns a hospitality group, was part of the hospitality group called Tao Group. Tao is a huge brand name in Las Vegas. At one point it was the highest grossing restaurant in the United States, and that's where I grew my career. I was with you within your group for about eight years. And over the course of that time, really in the first five years, I went from being an executive assistant to director of events over that company. [00:08:49][115.7]

[00:08:50] Wow. That's an amazing ride. Did you were you based out of New York City at that time? [00:08:54][4.1]

[00:08:55] I was, yes. [00:08:56][0.7]

[00:08:57] So you've garnered this communications publications degree and then you've turned into an intern for LeBron James and navigating that kind of high famous high profile sports network and then turning to Noah's kind of industry. [00:09:11][14.9]

[00:09:12] And within five years of that going over events, it seems like you would have crawled into starting an event or like a marketing company. [00:09:22][9.5]

[00:09:22] How did you come up with mixed pros? [00:09:24][1.5]

[00:09:25] Yeah, so mixed race is funny. It's just, you know, I think it was another step in life. Like, I am very positive right now that I am doing my life's work, like as we speak. And I think everything before Mitros was just getting me prepared for mixed race. So the way that mixed race came about was I was at a conference in twenty fourteen. It was a conference that was put on by Cosmopolitan magazine. It was like their first in-person conference. They had a killer lineup of speakers, including Sara Blakely. She was actually the keynote. She founded Spanx. And I was just sitting there listening to it all. And I was like, wow, this content is really great. But my my purpose for going to that, like spending my own personal money and going to that was to meet people in different industries. I was very well connected and like nightlife events, you know, spirits, that kind of deal. But I wanted more connections and like beauty and fashion. And so when it came time to network, the event organizers said go up to someone with the same color dot on their nametag as you. And I found that to be so awkward because it was an all women's conference mostly. And women inexplicably put their name tag on their boobs like that's what we put it in you like you like go up to a woman that you don't know. And you you look you to take a close look at her breast area and then you say, I'm blue, you're blue. Let's talk about it. That's so weird. And at the time I was living in New York, I was too cool for school. And I was like, well, I'm not doing that. So I went to lunch by myself, which is completely normal. And I, you know, I caught up on the news and whatever. But when I was speaking to my mom about that later, she was asking about my experience and I told her and she was like, well, what a waste of money. She was like, wasn't your purpose to go there and network? And I said, Yeah, but it was awkward. And my mom and I had this conversation that kind of turned into like a four hour conversation. And by the end of it, we had come up with a very primitive idea for what would be mixture. [00:11:25][119.6]

[00:11:26] Yeah, and I love that because I think that I have not spoken with anyone who isn't kind of filled with, you know, this I go to huge conferences and things like that, usually with the sole purpose of interviewing people. For mining company, and even I sometimes have this moment and the idea that you're given Dotts or I think it was the early movement of we're at a conference to socialize and not even just to market oneself, but just to, like, connect with people. And people just get really shy, even very loquacious people in those events. You know, we want our own circle to talk to you and things like that. So how long was it before that kind of fortuitous conversation with your mom until you launched? [00:12:14][48.0]

[00:12:16] So it was actually very quickly, because on the same night, my mom had had an experience as well that kind of just challenged her thoughts about how do people actually connect with one another while they're there. And so that basically we came up with the idea on November 11th of twenty fourteen, continued to talk about it between November and December when I came home for the holidays that December of twenty fourteen, I was actually trying to be at home and rest. I was I was going to see my parents who lived in Nashville, Tennessee at the time, and I was like trying to chill because for me the top of the year is that like with the way my career was, because right off the bat I was going to go to the Sundance Film Festival. After that, I would go to Grammys and after that I would go to Oscars to do activations. So the top of the year was crazy. And while I was home, my mom and I, we were really grinding out like, first of all, what is an app? How do you get one produced? Like, we had no tech background whatsoever, but we tell entrepreneurs all the time, Google will tell you everything you need to know. You need to be willing to spend the time to find it. So that's what we did. We figured everything out via the University of Google. Yeah. And my mom, we we realized while I was home that the CEF, which is the Consumer Electronics Show, it was happening in January of twenty fifteen. That's probably the biggest tech conference that's held in the US annually. It's in Vegas. It's huge. And so my mom actually went there solo because I was working and my mom happened to be on sabbatical at the time and she went there just to educate herself on technology because I would say both of us were very casual consumers of tech, like we had iPhones and stuff, but we were using them like bare minimum to text and whatnot, really not knowing anything about building the back end of software and all of that. So that was really the first step. My mom going there. And it's funny as the story goes, my mom was at this conference and you have to imagine this is twenty fifteen. This is pretty neat to us, to them, to there were no movements about people of color, women in tech, nothing like that. It just kind of was what it was. The status quo was if you go to a tech conference, 90 percent of the people there will be white males in their 20s, 30s. And so my mom kind of felt like a fish under water, out of water. You know, we are women of color. Obviously, my mom is a much older than I am. So she's in that age demographic, all of that. And so she was sitting at a table. She went to a table and there were two drinks on the table. My mom was like, well, that's odd. Like, who leaves drinks open on a table in twenty fifteen? So she just kind of sat at that table and then a bit later and she was kind of thinking to herself at that point I wish Meckstroth existed today because I feel so awkward. I don't know who to connect with. You're like no one here is really like me. And so later these two gentlemen, white guys, they come up and they're they're like in my mom's age group and they all start talking. And then after a while, my mom said to them, why did you come to this table of all of the tables? And the two guys say, well, those were our drinks. Actually, you're at our table. [00:15:27][190.9]

[00:15:30] And lot of people have been our app developers since twenty fifteen. Still, I love it. [00:15:36][6.1]

[00:15:37] It's such a shame. I can't even imagine in twenty fifteen just given who your mother was. [00:15:42][5.2]

[00:15:42] But the idea of being a novice and going to like this Mecca center for the industry just to educate yourself is like learning how to swim in the deepest part of the ocean. I mean, it's really daunting. [00:15:55][13.0]

[00:15:57] I mean, it is, but the thing about my mom that I love and I think I said this at where you and I actually met in person, if you're looking for a co-founder, try a woman over 40 because women over 40. Figure it out and they get stuff done. And I find them to be quite fearless. And so my mom even to go to CBS, she looked up the ticket cost to go to see but crazy like fourteen hundred dollars, something for a ticket to see if my mom was like well paid for two hundred dollars to go to the conference. And so she found the email address for one of the heads of CBS and she just called, emailed this person and just explained, hello, my name is Shrader. And I just came up with this idea and I'm really trying to come out to see what's going on. And it was funny because at the time my stepfather and I both were like laughing at her. We were like, just pay the money, just go whatever. And the person emailed her back and gave her a free ticket. And so it's just like all those things, it's like the willingness to ask and not be afraid of. Someone says no, because really, when you ask the likelihood of someone saying yes or at least opening a door, it's high. But you have to be vulnerable enough to put yourself out there for that. And I I'm my mom is so great at that, as I've learned from her so much in just watching her work. [00:17:14][76.9]

[00:17:15] Yeah, I agree with you. And there is such strength in that vulnerability as well. [00:17:19][4.1]

[00:17:19] You know, the shyness that kind of plagues a lot of at least a lot of the female entrepreneurs and industry experts and founders, seasoned people that have a reluctance to outsource or ask for help. It's there is there's a weakness in that as well as a drain of time and money. As far as founding it, it was you and your mom. Was there anyone else brought on or there's just the two of you cofounding or just the two of us cofounding it. [00:17:46][26.9]

[00:17:46] So for the longest time, actually, except for this past year, literally, Alex Rose was my mom, myself and our team and the dev team consisted of two gentlemen met in Vegas at the twenty fifteen seats convention. [00:18:00][14.2]

[00:18:02] So, yeah. So they're actually based in El Dorado Hills, California. Belrose is the name of the dev, our dev lead. I mean, for all intents and purposes, he's our interim CTO and the rest of our team is actually offshore. It's very interesting because in the digital age we've actually only met Bill like four or five times in person over the course of all of these years. But we're incredibly close to him, close to his family and all that kind of thing. Now, so close that like when he visited Nashville, he actually stayed at my family home. So it's just extraordinary what work you can get done with all of the tools we have at our disposal. Like I look at entrepreneurs like Sara Blakely, who did all of this like early two thousands. They didn't have all the software at their disposal. So I'm like, hats off to y'all like having to go to, like a library and stuff like that for us. [00:18:55][52.7]

[00:18:55] Absolutely. [00:18:55][0.0]

[00:18:55] Everything is everything is able to be done digitally, which is pretty awesome. [00:18:59][3.8]

[00:19:00] It is. Entrepreneurship has really changed. It's a global environment if you're willing to, as you and you and your mother did, like jump in and really suss it out. [00:19:09][9.3]

[00:19:10] And it's awesome because I think that really educating yourself before you do bring on a team, you know, knowing how all of the finances are working and your business doesn't mean you necessarily have to be the bookkeeper. Twenty four seven. But being naive to any of those facets is ludicrous in that I think there are a lot of founders out there of tech companies that came up with the idea and have nothing about ideas about their backend. They couldn't tell you how things are being written or why. So I think it's awesome that you guys kind of started with that. And I'm wondering. So give us can you give us an overview of what makes Troas is we have a little bit of the back story now. Can you tell us what it is? [00:19:49][38.8]

[00:19:50] Yes, so one of my favorite ways to explain next Rose today, and this was an evolution, of course. So I look at a company like Slaínte and of course, Black is the messaging app that is used at so many different organizations today. And what I think is interesting about black is they're not selling messaging. That's not what they're selling. They are selling being very efficient. They're they're they're selling efficiency and being and connecting organizations, empowering and empowering employees to share information quickly in a way that is beautiful and graceful and all that. That's what Kodak is selling. Similarly, McShera is when you look at it, it is a tool that takes people from their phone to face to face in real time, that increases engagement and collects data. And so what I'm telling you is the potential of a more connected workforce, a workforce where synergies are uncovered, a workforce where there is open dialog, that sort of thing. So I am really a proactive tool across our main verticals, which is enterprise and education. So the way mixture is worked and I think using the use case of college is a good one because most people can relate to high school, college, some sort of schooling. So at a certain point when you start school, there's like an orientation. And so our quickest ways to get into a university system is for mixture is to be used during freshman orientation. And the way that this works is students will come into one of their orientation sessions. They will launch the next growth app and they get a nice branded feel. It feels like the app belongs to the school. They joined the mix, as we call it, and they quickly fill out a virtual name tab, which is name, email address and snapping a selfie. They then answer questions inside of the app that have been customized by the university ahead of time. And this is really where the magic of mixture of lies, those 10 questions can be anything that the university wants. So if they ask very smart questions, they are able to derive very valuable data. And I'll give an example of that in a moment. So the student does that and it takes them about students are fast so that that whole thing might take them two minutes and when they're done, they reach a countdown clock. And so while they're going through whatever this orientation session is about, when it's time for them to get together and network, let's say all the students at the same time will get a push notification to their phone. It will then show them of the students there who they've been matched with, where they're going to meet that group of people right then. So then all the students get up, they go to their grouping, and then this magical phenomenon happens. The volume in the room increases significantly because you have all these connections happening all at once. I love seeing it every time it happens. And then all of the data that's been collected from those surveys, the questions that were asked inside of the app, it is immediately available to the school so they can see exactly what there's, who their students are and what they care about instead of what they think. So some of the questions that our universities will ask are things like, I picked this school because of what they give them five answers. One of the schools we work with, it was overwhelmingly that students pick the school because of career opportunities postgrad. That's great information that that school can share with their career services department, like, wow, this is something that's really attracting students here. And here's the data that supports that. We should pour more money here or whatever the case is. But the whole thing with this is mixed. Rose is a tool that connects students on campus. We know that when students feel connected on campus and this is really exactly the same for employees, they're more likely to progress, retain and graduate and schools that can make data based decisions they perform better. So mistruth is a win win like that. So we have really moved networking into the digital age where it belongs right now. This kind of work is still done by hand. Students are getting put into groups for orientation, for class, whatever, and it's kind of done in an antiquated way. You know, you take a alphabetized list of students and count off by ten and that's it. And we knew that there was a smarter way to go about doing this, because when you can give people just one piece of familiarity with one another, they're just more likely to connect in. The last thing I'll say, Rose, is the first. Let's take this case I'm about to say so mistruth is the difference between this and that with what I'm about to say. So imagine that you are a woman and you're in a parking garage and it's late at night and you have to take an elevator. You get on the elevator and the doors open. And let's say that there's like a big burly man in there. He's all like, tatted up and he's kind of intimidating for you. So if I got on that elevator, I would get on it. I would turn around it. I'd be like, please don't let anything happen to me. However, if that same scenario happens and the elevator doors open and it's that same guy, but he have the Cleveland Cavaliers. [00:24:49][298.7]

[00:24:50] Head on, I'm going to be like, yo, what's up? How are you? [00:24:53][3.5]

[00:24:54] Because now we have we have something in common. We have a tie that binds it changes that whole situation. That is literally what mixture of dust plus data. [00:25:04][9.7]

[00:25:04] I like that. I like that in the metaphor. I'm wondering and analogy, do you do you have to it with a tool like this? [00:25:13][8.4]

[00:25:13] One of my my first thoughts as as a founder is you. There's certain genres or industries where you have to kind of come at the education component of the pitch more heavily than others. You know, you don't have to pitch a deodorant as much as you would say like this tool because it's so useful. But the utility of it, because it's boundless, feels like do you guys have to sit down and coach universities or schools in how to develop their question composition so that they can glean pieces of useful information? Do you do you do any of that kind of preemptive education before introducing mixtures to universities? [00:25:53][40.1]

[00:25:55] I would say our our customer success is really, really in depth with it, because we recognize that in implementing a tool like make sure you're going to ask people, be it students, employees, whatever, you're going to ask them to rethink the way that they have done something for a long time. So it's going to be a bit of buying and whatnot. But what we find is after they run, that first makes people lean into the opportunity because they were usually delighted that they have met someone who is quote unquote like them for whatever reason. So so that I would say for sure. But the other thing is we and this is something that happens over time. As an entrepreneur, you realize that you cannot boil the ocean. And so you really have to get narrow on who your customer is. So when I'm looking at schools, I am looking at schools on the extreme ends of the bell curve. So schools that come to us, it could be schools that have just experienced a crises like where perhaps students have done something in blackface or something like that. Then they're reaching out to us so they can put in DNA programing into the school. So that's one extreme case. Then on the other extreme, I have schools that are little, probably unlike the Princeton Review's most innovative campuses, like we've worked with Georgia Tech, we've worked with Ole Miss, we've worked with schools in Alabama. Those schools are schools that are just always looking for what's next. They're always thinking, how can we improve from where we are? And with those schools, they're my favorite kind of customer because there's very little explanation I have to do with mixed race. They understand the power of engagement. They understand that when you have a student that's engaged on campus, they will progress to retain and graduate. So I don't really have to do like a very light list for me that let's say and then all those schools that kind of fall in between, like they'll trickle into me, like as they're hearing about mixed growth. But those are the ones that we're actively going after. I'm looking for those schools on either end of that bell curve. [00:27:59][123.7]

[00:28:00] Yeah, absolutely. So it sounds like the the areas and the populations that you guys are mainly looking at are having the beginning. [00:28:08][8.0]

[00:28:08] Our universities, do you see with this this round of funding or the next do you see branching out into other industries or are you going to stay tight with the kind of academics university system? [00:28:20][11.6]

[00:28:21] So actually, academics, I would say, is our second largest market. Our first largest market is actually enterprises. So enterprises with five hundred or more employees, that is a huge, sweet spot for us because those human resources folks understand that when you increase in engagement points within the enterprise, that really hits bottom line profitability, because the more positive your employees feel about their workplace, they're more productive, there's less absenteeism, safety incidents go down, et cetera, and so on. All those factors lead to profitability. [00:28:57][36.2]

[00:28:58] So looking at big enterprises like we've done work from everybody from Deloitte to Alabama Power, for example. So in inside of those enterprises, our easiest entry point, I would definitely say, is somewhere in H.R., but certainly diversity, inclusion, if they have a median and US department inside of the enterprise, huge hit there, because there we can do everything from when you have like a meeting where you have paid the money as the enterprise to bring in your employees from north, south, east and west. What we know happens like sociology back this up is if you bring in employees from all areas of the country, they will automatically segregate themselves like people from the west. We'll see what the W e will say with E, and that's not what you want. You really need those people to be mixed up. So, again, that synergy becomes unlocked. So mixture helps there. When you're talking about diversity, inclusion programing, they say if you build it, they will come. I'm like one hundred percent, they'll come, but they will not network. And so that's where mixed growth plays a key role in this. And another one of our customers favorite use cases is using the extras to facilitate luncheon or dinner seating because we're sending a set number of people to a set location. So we're seating chart become a hot mess because somebody is trying to do that by hand. Make sure we can do that in seconds. [00:30:19][80.3]

[00:30:19] Yeah, clever. Sounds like a good wedding. [00:30:22][2.9]

[00:30:24] People have reached out to us for wedding. [00:30:26][1.5]

[00:30:26] I was just going to say I like the utility is is going to be just exponential. You know, there's just so many social environments that this can be kind of tweaked and applied to. [00:30:36][10.1]

[00:30:37] What do you guys looking out for the next three years from scaling and expansion? I'm speaking of like reaching into other industries and things like that. What do you foresee on your horizon? [00:30:46][8.5]

[00:30:47] Sure. So I think as we look so realistically, 20, 19 has been the first year of real business because at the end of twenty eighteen our business, we were able to complete a massive round of precede funding, just over a million dollars, which was exciting. At that point. My mother and I became the thirty seven thousand thirty eight black female to ever raise a million dollars or more for a startup in the US, which that number makes me cringe because like how in the world are we still in double digits? Go crazy. So I'm proud of that. And it also makes me cringe. But after raising that money, basically what we were able to do is take a business that was totally working in concept, but it wasn't really functioning like a business. Mitros was built on hustle and it was running out of hustle and we had to go back and put process where there was none. So today there are processes behind how mix growth is working and our business has continued to grow. Over the course of this year, we're eyeing opening another round of funding as we look to Q1 one in the new year here. And that is again, so we can pour some more gasoline on what we know is working in the next year. But I mean, realistically, as I look forward, there are enhancements to the software that are coming, including we are currently at best, mixed growth is both on iPhone and Android. But in future, we also want to have a Web version of Mix Road. So that will not require a download. Specifically, we're working with our customers who are doing one off events like conferences and this kind of thing that include that continues to reduce friction for the product. [00:32:26][99.2]

[00:32:27] So those sorts of things, but also bringing on our team members full time, that is something we will do with this next round of funding. We were very smart, I would say, with this million dollars, with my mom having an H.R. background. I don't know that I mentioned that my mom is a twenty five year plus veteran in human resources. She has been working for a Fortune five and one hundred companies over the course of her career. [00:32:51][23.1]

[00:32:51] She led a global HRR transformation for like over one hundred thousand employees. So she's no joke. And so she HRR is something that's kind of forgotten in the startup world because everybody is like the wild, wild west out there. But our company is different because my mom had that expertize. So most of the people working with us today, like our team, they are ten, ninety nine employees. With this next round of funding, we'll look to bring them on full time because we have an awesome team that we built in Birmingham and also some of our team members are in California as well. So just looking to scale the team that way. But then to your point, all these other markets, the thing about startups specifically, when you're in the early stage, the growth stage, you really have to be narrow. [00:33:34][43.1]

[00:33:35] You have to be narrow because you only have so much money and the world is really big and you can't try to chase everyone down. But with further scale, like you said, the wedding industry, that becomes a thing. Another place we love is like the travel industry. If you look at like cruise ships and things like that, wouldn't it be great before you got on a cruise ship to be able to know, is there another family on this boat like mine, like to have kids that will get off at the port, stop that we can hang out with? I find that like when you're on a vacation like that, people meet their favorite people, like the night before the vacation is over. And it's like, where were you this whole time? And the reason why these vacation brands will buy into that is the more engaged someone is on your property, the more money they're spending. [00:34:18][43.2]

[00:34:19] Yeah, absolutely. And the happier the experience, the more likely is the customer ship, all of those good things, right? [00:34:25][5.8]

[00:34:26] That's right. So, you know. [00:34:27][1.4]

[00:34:30] I think that I'm wondering, like seeing how much and how well you guys have done things, it feels like you and your mother have before you even launched this enterprise, you did things so well, like even this last concept of staying lean and things of that nature. It's like the top 15 pieces of advice that the best thing a young startup could do. Did you guys have any knowledge about a startup? I mean, you said you were kind of green in the tech world, but in startups in general, had you or your mom, either one of you started up a business? Never. [00:35:04][34.1]

[00:35:05] And we actually have like everyone in our family is. And I'm going to talk about my mom's side of the family. Like all her siblings, they went to college like my grandparents. They were like, you all need to go to college. They paid for college for everybody. And you guys need to get jobs and you need to work yourself up to those jobs to go as far as you can. That was the goal in our immediate generation of family. We don't have someone who just opened a restaurant or anything like that, like there is no entrepreneurship there. And so my mom and I are really the first to do it. What's amazing is some of my mom's siblings have gotten behind us as early stage investors and that sort of thing. So that's been awesome. But my mom and I, I would say, are really pioneers there. And so everything that we've learned is come from our friends and family. Investors are awesome. Our friends and family investors, they were really betting on the jockey opposed to the horse. I used to tell them, OK, that's great. But I do believe we're riding Seabiscuit, so we should be all right. So, you know, they they they help our friends and family investors. We were able to raise two hundred thousand dollars with them at a time when on average, black female starting a business, we're only raising thirty six thousand dollars, which is insane to me because comparatively a white male at the same stage was raising one point three million. And so that in itself was extraordinary. So although we didn't have that expertize right there at our fingertips, we did have quite a network of people who who gave us their expertize and different things, like one of my mom's best friends is a CFO. So she advised us early on on things. So we have just been really, I would say, blessed in that way to have these people in our circles who were there early on to fill in the gaps of things we didn't know. I mean, the thing about being a founder is you have to recognize really quick, you have to hire other people who are smarter than you in different areas. [00:37:09][123.7]

[00:37:09] Yeah, absolutely. Or to your peril. Right. I mean, you better find someone who's doing it better than you could otherwise. [00:37:17][8.0]

[00:37:19] It's yeah, I agree to your detriment. You guys have amazing gut checks. The issue needs to be like ironclad because it sounds like there is a lot of. But even to know who to ask. There's a lot of I'm not even sure who to ask and then to look through one's personal Rolodex and find out that you have experts within your own layer and things like that. I think it's it's just a phenomenal example of being able to self educate and then really reach out and ask the right questions and hire the right people. So given that and given that you guys are kind of this this wonderful example of how to do things right, if someone came up to you tomorrow, a woman or a non binary individual and said, listen, I'm going to I've had this background in communications and publications, I was this intern to this really incredible sports star. I've done the big city thing and I'm going to launch my own startup. I have this idea for a texting. I'm going to do it with a family member. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual today? [00:38:19][60.9]

[00:38:21] The and let me just be super clear, there have been potholes and road blocks and all the things go like this journey hasn't been without its many tears. Many I suffered from a bout of depression during this, which I as soon as we saw those things, like presenting itself, like I got checked. I think that's so important to say because people don't talk about that sort of thing enough in this journey. My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer over the course of this journey. And I promise you, it's the way she approached breast cancer. The reason that Mr. Rose is still here today, because at that point I was like, you know what, I think I'm good. I'm ready to, like, throw in the towel. [00:38:58][36.6]

[00:38:59] So, yeah. [00:38:59][0.6]

[00:39:01] So I think that's very important. But thinking about advice that I would give someone, I mean, one of the big things is find your spot in Nashville for us wasn't the best market for us to be. And when we moved to Birmingham, our business completely changed. So you have to as an entrepreneur or one of your first jobs is finding an ecosystem that gets you support to feels you go there and conquer. So that's one to I would say just start. People will come up with all sorts of reasons why they cannot do something. Figure out a reason to just start whatever that means for you. Is it doing the research to get yourself started? Is it filing for Licenciado again? Have to boil the ocean when you're starting a business, take those steps to get you to where you're going. And then I do think it's really do not people are going to have all kinds of opinions where you like people have give us the craziest advice before really take heed to the opinions of those who are up with you in the midnight hour. Like, don't put so much weight into those people who just come in. They're kind of looky loos and give nonsensical advice. [00:40:07][65.9]

[00:40:09] Yeah, absolutely. [00:40:09][0.6]

[00:40:11] I love those three pieces. Find your spot, just start and take heed to those that are truly invested in you. That's fantastic. [00:40:19][8.5]

[00:40:21] We are out of time, I wish we could talk more, and I did want to say that I don't believe that any entrepreneurial journey is without incredible pain and suffering. And I think that what you guys have done on paper and some of the story points out that even while you can kind of trudge through, people love to talk about the startup journey. And at the end of it is sometimes when you go to these conferences where you hear the testimonials, you think, why would anyone do that? But every every single person has talked about starvation and bankruptcy and all sorts of crazy things. And that it's not that it's not without more. But I think that there is also, you know, there's a rush from successes that we easily can forget to tell when we tell our story. And so I like that you're able to kind of articulate those in and throughout what sounds like has been an incredibly trying launch of the company. I think that having those to work in connection with each other makes it reality. [00:41:25][63.8]

[00:41:26] Right? It makes those real life. [00:41:28][2.3]

[00:41:30] And it absolutely does. You know, we've been able to see and do so many extraordinary things, I think having this partnership with my mom has been cool because, you know, we were really close anyway. I mean, close to the fact that, like, sometimes I would talk to her like several times a day when I was in New York and she was in Nashville. But this is like a different kind of close because it's it's really hard as an entrepreneur to, like, try to explain this journey to someone who's not in it with you. And so I love that whatever happens, good or bad, whatever, in the middle of my mom, she's usually right there experiencing it with me and vice versa. [00:42:05][35.0]

[00:42:06] Absolutely. Well, I want to say thank you so much to meeting with us today, Ashlee. It's actually I mean, she is the co-founder and president at Mastro's. [00:42:14][8.0]

[00:42:15] You can locate her at mixed TROs dot com. And thank you so much, Ashlee. And happy wishes for your new year. I'm going to circle back around and see if I can get you and your mom on a podcast in the future with 20, 20. [00:42:27][12.3]

[00:42:28] Sounds like a plan to me. Thank you so much for having me on. [00:42:31][2.6]

[00:42:31] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, thank you for giving us your time. And until we speak again, remember to always bet on yourself, Slainte. [00:42:31][0.0]

[2466.8]

View Details

Interview with Kelly Glover: Founder and Podcast Guest Booker for The Talent Squad. The Talent Squad arranges Podcast Tours for Entrepreneurs allowing them to: "Incorporate podcast guesting as part of your PR strategy! We book you on podcasts so you can be the go-to expert in your niche, get media exposure, build credibility, and squeeze that SEO juice from every interview."

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia, and today I am speaking with Kelly Glover. Kelly is the founder and podcast guest Booker for the talent squad. Welcome, Kelly. [00:01:41][11.2]

[00:01:42] Hello, Patricia. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. [00:01:45][2.7]

[00:01:46] Absolutely. I look forward to speaking with you. Kelly is based out of Sydney, Los Angeles and New York City. So we're catching her today from across the globe, over in Sydney, Australia. And I'm glad that you had the time to sit down with us. I'm going to read a quick bio on Kelly. But for everyone listening, the road map for today's podcast will follow the same trajectory as all of them so that any of you looking for continuity can follow it. So first, we'll start off with Kelly's academic background and early professional life following that. And then we'll turn to unpacking the talent squad. We'll get into the logistics of the who, what, when, where, why and how. And then we'll get into more of the ethos based questions that I have regarding clientele and the branding things of that nature. And then I will start my attentions towards Kelly's goals that she may have for the next three years regarding scaling expansion and other areas that she might see for see changes or growth within the talent squad, as well as other endeavors she's involved in. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice that Kelly has. For those of you looking to get involved in what she does, look towards employing her or simply mirroring some of her technique and style. So a quick file on Kelly before I start peppering her with questions. Kelly Glover Books, Podcast Tours for Entrepreneurs. She is the founder of the Talent Squad Podcast Agency and has 18 years of experience working with the media. Kelly has been in a celebrity interviewer, talent agent, radio host and podcast producer. She is here to give you the behind the scenes look at how you can pitch podcasts and your interviews and leverage the results. [00:03:21][95.3]

[00:03:22] And so I can't. [00:03:22][0.4]

[00:03:22] It's so apropos, Kelly, I must say, before I start asking you questions, you are one of the first people whose industry deals with what the format of what we're actually the platform in which we're speaking on today. And so I love the the play over and it's a booming industry. And so I do want to climb all throughout the talent squad. But before we get to that, for everyone listening, we walk us through your academic background and early professional life. [00:03:46][23.3]

[00:03:47] Sure. So, yes, I'm Australian. Right now, I'm in Sydney, so I first started university at the University of Newcastle. It's about two hours north of Sydney and then I was an exchange student to Ohio University. [00:04:02][14.8]

[00:04:03] So I was doing a communications degree, got to Ohio University, loved it, transferred and graduated from there. So with internships being so big and being wanting to work in entertainment, I did an internship in Los Angeles for Miramax that was back in 2000 and then picked up a second internship interviewing celebrities on the red carpet for a company called Zap to a dot com. And then I followed that up with doing an internship in from Miramax in London. And when I graduated, I moved to London and worked there for a while. We were speaking a little bit of that. I took a year to be a tour guide in Europe for a company called Bus About. So I think I got to say forty three cities. I was on to a coach every single day, taking 52 passengers across Europe. I got to see basically Europe for free and do all the every walking to a bicycle tour. I've seen it all, which is amazing. Move back to Australia and then worked for a talent agency when Avista got into Community Radio Improv. And then I realized I'm pretty good at this radio thing. I'll just take a crack at the National Graduate Radio School and take ten people a year. I will never get it and it might take me a few years. First application got in. I'm like, OK, well, I guess I'm going to radio school now. I went to radio school, became a radio announcer and then moved back to Hollywood. And then I quickly discovered, after having been a radio announcer for years in Australia hosting a syndicated show that with this accent, nope, can't get a radio job in Los Angeles. So that's how I got into podcasting. I actually got into podcasting in 2007 and throughout radio school. But that's when I got into it professionally and I haven't looked back. That was around 2013, 2014. And I launched the talent squad in two thousand and seventeen and went out on my own after being a podcast producer for the world's biggest women's network in Australia. Mamma Mia! So yeah, resprout of 18 years of academic and business achievements. [00:06:20][136.7]

[00:06:22] How was Mamma Mia? Just a quick tangent. How was I mean, when you look into it, you know, it's it's a pretty heavy hitting, as you said, a female agency. How is your experience there? [00:06:32][10.8]

[00:06:33] Yeah, it was really, really interesting. I describe it as The Devil Wears Prada crossed with The Hunger Games. And I don't even necessarily mean that that's a bad thing. [00:06:42][8.7]

[00:06:43] The person that runs it is Mia Freedman, and she's very, very big media personality in Australia. She used to be the editor of Cosmo. So it's run like a magazine, even though it is online. So they cycle through people pretty quickly there. But it is the best education you can ever have in media. I loved it. What was your role? That I was the senior podcast producer and it's the world's biggest women's network for podcasting. So I produced eight podcasts. Two of them were branded podcast. One of them was award winning. So it was the best learning possible. And with amazing people, everyone that goes through their ends up in big media agencies. But make no mistake, like I said, it's The Hunger Games Crossed with The Devil Wears Prada. But what a great education. [00:07:33][49.8]

[00:07:34] Were there any key differences with working with such a heavy female lead in? [00:07:41][6.8]

[00:07:41] I imagine there's a few token males running around. [00:07:43][1.9]

[00:07:43] But yeah, there was the opportunity of males. [00:07:46][3.0]

[00:07:47] Yeah, the opportunity of working in an environment that is so flipped, you know, where everyone in power and things like that is predominantly female. Was that at all shocking or inspiring or did you find it to be ironically similar to that of a male one? [00:08:02][14.9]

[00:08:06] I think that. [00:08:06][0.6]

[00:08:09] I kind of was just the norm, you didn't really think about it when you were there, it didn't seem like anything was missing. Nothing really seemed like it was off. It was pretty great. And I'm also a member of the wing, which is the female coworking space. So it's not unusual for me to be in that environment. So I kind of loved it. Yeah, no, I did love it. I loved it quite a bit. And yeah, you're right, there were a few token males there, but it was, I think three out of 100 women. So it was yeah it was in its everything that you said, but also highly competitive, which I don't think is what people may expect. But it was, it's sort of the competition was to be the best to get the best idea, you know, take no prisoners, just the best of the best of the best. So I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. [00:09:00][51.4]

[00:09:01] No, I like the idea of that. You know, I think the stereotype with a lot of people and a lot of people's heads is that a woman's powerhouse industry like that would have a lot of different key fundamental differences in competitiveness and things like that. So to hear you say that it was you know, it was it was raw. [00:09:19][17.8]

[00:09:19] It was incredibly competitive and intense is I like that. [00:09:24][4.8]

[00:09:24] I welcome the you know, the similarity between everything else that you would find on Madison Avenue or something like that. [00:09:30][5.3]

[00:09:31] Yeah, and I think the key word you just said there was raw because so Mamma Mia is it's a lot about personal stories. [00:09:39][7.7]

[00:09:40] And there were I learned a lot about having different meetings and transparency and radical candor so that have the morning you get up because it's sort of it's a content agency, a media agency. So you'd get up and do the morning meeting. Everyone stands in a circle and everyone pitches their ideas of what's going on in the day and reflecting what's happening. [00:09:58][18.6]

[00:09:59] It was really exciting, absolutely radical candor and talking. That's fantastic. I'm going to run catchphrase as well. Yeah. [00:10:07][8.6]

[00:10:08] You launched the talent squad in twenty seventeen. Did you take any funding, any seed money, did you do anything or was it all bootstrapped or bootstrapped. [00:10:17][8.9]

[00:10:18] So my Mamma Mia contract was six months to come in and help with the podcasts as a producer, a senior podcast producer. [00:10:26][7.7]

[00:10:26] And then it got extended for three months and then I launched my own business. So I just I launched it at podcasts movement, which that one was in Anaheim. I'd been to podcasts movement before, so I just got all the collateral, made it myself, got a desire to do the logo, showed up, had no clients and got my first clients there going back. Ridiculous. Yeah, I have a journey like what was I thinking, how did I do that. Would I do it again. Probably no. But I just was kind of a bit clueless on clueless because I've been in the industry for a long time. I guess I was confident and then I knew I could make it and I was confident in myself. And I just one of the values I know we're getting to that later. One of them is radical candor and the other is just biscuit for the biscuit. And I always think of reverse engineer and think, OK, what's the worst that can happen? Well, I spend my money, I get my clients and I come home. [00:11:21][55.0]

[00:11:22] Yeah. Biscuit for the biscuit. I love it. [00:11:24][2.2]

[00:11:25] Well, how did you when you went to any time someone's completely self designed and self founded, was there a moment that you kind of thought, OK, I'm going to build this? [00:11:36][10.6]

[00:11:36] I mean, the impetus for the talent squad and then the structure behind it, these are two very different things. Right? So you have this I'm going to have this talent squad agency and help people promote their podcasts and things of that nature, however, or promote themselves via podcasts. But designing how you go about that and the structure within it is a completely different beast. And usually in companies, it's two different people. So did the impetus come first or did you think I know exactly how to get people? I see this one, this desire kind of the back end come first. [00:12:08][31.9]

[00:12:09] So I had works for a podcasting agency when I was in Los Angeles and I mentioned I went there to be in radio and I couldn't get a radio job. I got a job writing show notes for podcasts. From that, I started booking guests on podcasts. I've been working for that agency for a while and they took all their people in-house. I'd also started working for Mamma Mia! And I knew that was a contract job and I thought, I love the podcast bookings. The favorite thing that I do, it's one element of the producing. And I thought, well, instead of relying on someone else, I can rely on myself. I know I can do all this stuff in that way. I get to do the way that I want. And I also like the idea of the remote lifestyle. I love Australia, but I know that it's in Los Angeles, in New York. And this way I can move where I want, when I want and work in my prime productivity. So it's sort of like you said, it's taking my skills also not being at the behest of others and also designing the work and the life in the best way possible. [00:13:09][60.5]

[00:13:10] Absolutely. OK, so let's unpack it a little bit. Can you tell us what exactly the talent squad is and what it does and what like a typical client of yours would look like? [00:13:18][7.9]

[00:13:19] So so we're a podcast guest booking agency and it has evolved. So we book podcast tools for entrepreneurs. When we started, we were doing full podcast a month ongoing. And what we've discovered over time is that because podcast is relatively new to most people, the idea of signing up to an agency for the rest of your life and having ongoing and the possibility of doing 50 interviews a year is too much. But people can handle a podcast tour of 12, 20, 30, fatchett spread it out. That's OK. And they they can manage that. And so we've turned it into podcast tours. And so somebody would come to us and then a entrepreneur, they want to reach niche audiences. So it's not about broadcast getting on like the equivalent of the to the Today Show. Everyone comes and says, I want to be on the team first year and you look at Tim Ferriss and go, Well, the last people. And there were Oprah. Gary Vaynerchuk. Are you in that league? No. OK, then you're probably not going to get on that show. Why don't you go for the shows and reach those people? So we're more about that. So and then it's not only getting people booked, it's my. Making sure they have the assets, so have you got your online press kit? Have you got your one sheet? Have you got your call to action? What's your messaging? So it's helping people through the process and nailing the interview. And also, OK, so the interview goes out then what? Because if you do nothing after it or don't promote it or leverage repurpose, then you've lost the opportunity. So it's not just the booking, it's the entire strategy surrounding being a podcast guest. And again, all this is learned over time because to me, it's easy and I get it. But to other people, it didn't occur to me that people wouldn't know these things and would need help with these things. Absolutely. And also it's built in along the way. [00:15:11][112.0]

[00:15:12] Yeah. [00:15:12][0.0]

[00:15:12] And the coaching that you're talking about, I think is more it's it's very and like appropriate that you came up in in Hollywood a little bit with your career because it sounds a lot like an agent, like an ATF. You know, the coaching that goes along with like, let's make sure you have your materials at play. Let's make sure you're polished and your your message and deliver is good instead of just booking the appointment, it sounds. [00:15:35][23.4]

[00:15:36] Yeah, absolutely. One stop shopping. And I think it's more manager than agent because I think. But yes, you're right. Yeah. My Yes. Manager. [00:15:46][10.4]

[00:15:47] Yeah. I agree with you. And that's getting into Hollywood particulars. But you're absolutely right. Yeah. Someone who was just thinking about the entire picture of how it's getting going down with the talent and the audience and everything in between. And that's awesome. So who who was your target originally when you up and came up, did you identify an audience that you knew would need this? Or how did you start your advertising after developing the talent squad? [00:16:10][23.8]

[00:16:11] So the originally it was kind of the anyone that wants to get hooked on podcasts. [00:16:17][5.6]

[00:16:17] I wasn't out there to convince people that they needed this because they needed to come to me or see me at a conference and a booth in the conference knowing what podcast is, how it works, and knowing that they want to use this already. And then it's turned into entrepreneurs and really entrepreneurs and authors. But the authors that come to us generally are entrepreneurs with a book, not an author first, although we do have one client who is of a fiction author with series, and that's been quite successful as well in The Wire. So it's mainly entrepreneurs now. Absolutely. So people are using it to elevate. Sorry to interrupt. So people are using it to elevate the authority, but also it's a way to get clients. Yeah. What is the growth been like since twenty. Seventeen. Podcasts have I cannot believe it blows my mind the change in podcast, even in the last few years, because like I said, I've been in it since 2014, 14, 13, 14. So it just is every year it seems to just get faster and faster and bigger. And even at the conferences, that podcast movement, how many changes cities. So it is a little bit different. But so the last one, all of Hollywood was there and this was in Orlando and all of Hollywood wasn't there, even when the podcast movement conference was in Anaheim. So people have been doing things behind the scenes. I call it Trojan horse hosting and then just popping up. But I can tell you all the agencies, the Endeavor, William Morris, CIA, all the big dogs were at podcast movement in Orlando in August. So that tells me a lot if they willing to travel there and do that and then just all these companies popping up all the time. Yes. So the growth from business, the growth from Hollywood, the growth from the growth and then also the consolidation has already started happening with Spotify is coming in and everyone buying all the big companies like Pineapple Media has been bought. So I guess this is industry talk a little bit, but yet the growth, the consolidation, the different industries coming in. And I think podcasts are also people think podcast equal audience equals downloads. That's what they think. But the other aspect they're not looking at yet is internal podcasts for corporations, internal podcasts, training for human resources, for advertising to get people to work for you for HRR perspective. So I think that they're looking at it as an entertainment, but not necessarily as a medium for other avenues. [00:19:01][163.1]

[00:19:01] And I think that we'll come to I, I think the utility is I equate it to Instagram. You know, we're Instagram originally started with just this utility was to share pictures and video clips. And now it's like one of the number one places in the United States for the upper level echelon of corporate America to find out about job postings. And the irony there is the creativity it took for someone to say, I'm going to use this platform because we have all of these followers as a way to put a job opening out there, you know, and that kind of like really just kind of cross pollinating utility and things like that. I think that's coming into play with podcasts. I think you're starting to get into this. It's no longer just two people sharing ideas. There's motive, there's goals. It's not just promotion or like you say, entertainment. There's all sorts of education and different things. It's like YouTube. It was originally started to share family videos and then it quickly became the go to for all informational instructional video sources. [00:19:55][53.6]

[00:19:57] Absolutely. [00:19:57][0.0]

[00:19:57] It's I am obsessed and I can see the potential and sometimes I think I can. [00:20:03][5.2]

[00:20:03] I've been talking about internal podcasts for corporations for years and now I can see it start seeing people do it. Yeah. So I think that and that leads to technology platforms for how do you do it, protect it and you know what I mean. So there's all these things that from one idea, all these other things that I didn't even know how it works with the tech will get invented. [00:20:20][16.7]

[00:20:21] Yeah. So looking at your company, particularly at the talent squad, can you describe a little bit of the ethos behind it like we all have, you know, these very founder based things where you've mentioned radical candor and risk it for the biscuit and these kind of catch things. [00:20:36][15.6]

[00:20:37] Can you kind of unpack some of that for us? Yeah, so we have I don't again, I don't even know the technical terms are a lot of these things, but I guess I just beliefs some people will say that's not a value. Well, I don't know. [00:20:51][14.0]

[00:20:51] So we go by radical candor because having been Australian, I just can't deal with it. Like, just tell me the truth. If you go and dance around it, I don't even know what you're talking about. Tell me the truth. Let's be open. If there's a problem, let's solve it. Let's roll with it. If website website's not good and you're my client, or if you do a podcast interview from the car, we're going to have a talk about it because you need to be the best that you can be. And I can't push you out to shows if your website looks like a dog's breakfast and you need a new headshot. So that's what you can expect from me. And if you don't like it, then I'm not the person for you. But I want you to look amazing and I want you to sound amazing. So they're the conversations we're going to have and in the best way possible, like, I want your headshot to be amazing. I want you to sound good. So when I start working with people, sometimes I'll say I love you. You're amazing. Your website doesn't reflect that. We need to fix that first and then we can get rolling. Yeah, continuous continuous improvement. And that is, like I said, just from the beginning of getting started with the booth at podcast movement. The branding has changed. Who we're working with changed how we've works, changed the packages. But it's still the same concept. And I think that will change with you can't just start with something two years ago, especially in an industry that's moving so fast and have it state. That's something I didn't realize that business, I'm like, oh, I can do this, I know how to do this, I'll do it. And then but it's been amazing and I wouldn't change it for anything. For us, it's produce a mindset because there are other agencies doing this, but they aren't necessarily radio producers background. I think they because and come from a VA and have no background in this area. So for us, we think like it because I've been a producer. So I'm a bit like you, Patricia. People pitch you. So I'm like, OK, I'm getting pitch this. How would I react? So we reverse and reverse engineering is very big for us, and then something else we say results over time. I don't do like I don't do it if you book someone and it takes you one minute because you can pick up the phone or send an email and it's an awesome show, why should you get, like a couple of bucks yourself? So we we do results over time. So it's more of a flat phase than you should be rewarded for your relationships that you've built over 20 years, not for the two seconds it takes for you to get that booking because you've put 20 years in to be able to do that. [00:23:18][147.1]

[00:23:19] Yeah, a long game right out of Journal of Media. Like even though we live in a short game environment of half a sentence, Twitter remarks and things like that, relationships are still a long game and they always will be because humankind has not changed their plot. Yeah. [00:23:34][15.5]

[00:23:35] So we don't believe in office hours nine to five, sit at the desk, jam it out and whatever, because I know when I work for someone else, I have to show up at whatever time, do whatever time. But that's not necessarily my prime productivity. And often I'd be sitting there and my brain would clock out and I'm still have to wait. [00:23:54][18.7]

[00:23:55] And, you know, especially at the agency outweight everyone because no one wants to leave early and it's that whole thing. But if I'd have done if I could have shown up earlier and gotten rid of the meetings and done the stuff, I probably could have cut two hours and done double the work. So we talk about your prime productivity time. And because I've got someone that works for me and she loves working at night really late at night to me, I get up at three thirty in the morning. So for us to work at the same time is ridiculous because bit by the time she's even woken up, I've put in a day's work and have nailed it. So we talk about prime productivity results, overtime and flexible lifestyle. You don't have to be in the same office. So I'm in Los Angeles, New York and Sydney, and that's fine. Like if I want to go to the zoo with my niece and nephew, that motivates me. If I want to be in New York, that motivates me. I'm going to get my work done in the amount of time. And if you're in Los Angeles, if you're in. Dallas, or if you want to travel like one of my girls traveled over to London and worked there for two months, awesome. I think you need to be tied to an office for at least for what we do to do that. So this is a flexible lifestyle is very big on us. [00:25:06][71.3]

[00:25:07] I like the idea, too, that you talk about reverse engineering and kind of said, yes, from the standpoint of every environment that you're coming into again, it goes back into the manager. I feel like that that relationship with someone, I'm wondering like looking forward to goals that your company has over the next year and this idea of reverse engineering. One of the first things I think of with podcasting that hasn't been done, at least not a ton yet, is relationships with people who would need podcasting. So like publishing houses and things like that. Like, have you ever thought about taking the talents God into not an exclusive, but like an alliance with people who are going to immediately need, especially entrepreneurs like with when you say you're focusing now, your specialty is towards entrepreneurs. I'm wondering if the idea of getting in bed with angel investors or that type of like funding investment firm would be interesting to be on their roster. Has that ever come up in your purview? [00:26:08][61.1]

[00:26:10] To to get funding for the agency or to go to an agency to book their clients no to just to be in tandem with you. [00:26:18][7.6]

[00:26:18] So if an angel investor or some kind of an investor, venture capitalist of any form is getting ready to invest in a company, the concept of putting it on some kind of a podcast tour. Oh, right. Yeah, I like enlisting your services. There's all of these different relationships, right. That we can build and we do. [00:26:38][19.8]

[00:26:38] It depends because a lot of people have their own PR agencies, but PR agencies kind of don't really know how to deal with podcasting because it is a different beast. So oftentimes it will be not necessarily the angel investor, but their PR company that contacts us. And so we often work with PR agencies and you're talking publishing houses, the same with publishing houses. All the big ones have their own PR people or they have in-house people. But then those people come to us and we are supplementary to them because we need to know what they're pitching out and what they're doing. And that might have a few top level, but they don't have this, what, seven hundred and fifty thousand podcasts a lot of them have provided. So this difference, like they might know the big few networks, but they don't know all the other aspects. So so yeah, we kind of do partner with people, but not necessarily is their sole agency. It's usually in tandem with what they're working with already. [00:27:34][56.2]

[00:27:35] OK, and looking forward to the your future with the goals that you have. Do you do do through your goals. I always try to, I do them and so that's where I put things. But I'm looking towards the horizon. Where do you see it seems like you have a really good grasp for trends in podcasts. And so that must play into the dialog of where you see the talent squad headed over the next three years. [00:27:57][22.1]

[00:27:58] It is Patricia, but it's also tricky because I have to tell you, I should put that back as one of the companies stay in your line, because I find that really hard to do, because the podcast for corporations that I've seen for ages, that is completely different to guest booking, that is making podcasts. [00:28:15][16.6]

[00:28:16] So then it's what can you do? What do you focus on? How many things can you do? And so, yes, I've done branded podcasts. Yes, I've been a producer. Yes, I'm a talent booker. Yes, I can see that potential. But you kind of have to pick a lane and stay in it if you want to be the best and keep going at one thing. [00:28:31][15.2]

[00:28:32] And I find that very hard. So because then I get distracted and then I might well, hang on, I'm I'm only one person. I do have people working for me, but so I stay in your lane. So for us, we're sticking with the guest booking at the moment. At the moment. [00:28:48][15.8]

[00:28:49] Mm hmm. I mean, you're going to stay there and just kind of grow that with the entrepreneurial kind of basis or lens attached to that. [00:28:56][6.7]

[00:28:56] Yes. But the other element is talking about scaling. And I don't want to have hundreds of clients and not be able to give the person like if you talk about a manager, they don't have hundreds of clients like an agent might. So for us, it's we've been heading towards that. And one day I just went I didn't even want that amount of people. I like knowing exactly what everyone is doing. And I can follow them and know what's happening and send them visit them and send them a text and know that their daughter is going to Christmas pageant tomorrow and that they're going to the the thing as opposed to having one hundred people that I can't get. Chuckles So for us, we're keeping it boutique size. And that way I can be all up in everybody's beeswax and they can be the best possible rather than having one hundred people and being a sausage factory and not be able to know what's going on. So I know every booking that all my clients have and I'm and like you said, reverse engineering it. That was a great booking. OK, what was the pitch? What was the subject line? What was the content? What was the interview like? What did the house look like? We actually analyze that on a quarterly basis. So we know. So we did recalibrations. [00:30:00][64.2]

[00:30:02] So do you know your maximum amount of clients that you could feasibly handle given your crew size right now? [00:30:07][5.0]

[00:30:08] So, yeah, I think for us, it's about 10 clients per person that is comfortable for us to get the level of service that we have. Yeah, so that's our capacity. Anything beyond that, people aren't getting the attention that they need, not even that they need that they deserve. So we're very boutique. Absolutely. [00:30:26][18.4]

[00:30:28] It sounds like you've got I mean, you have everything battened down. Do you see any. [00:30:31][3.6]

[00:30:32] It doesn't feel like that. I don't know if anybody ever does. Figuring it out. I could change my mind next week. Next month about going that was and that's the problem a little bit with podcasting. You say stuff and look back and think, well, I believe that at the time. And I could see that at the time, but that's completely different now. [00:30:51][18.7]

[00:30:52] Well, you've already stated that you've talked about the ever changing landscape and the change. You can't stay still with something that's moving as quickly as the podcasting empire. And yeah, I'm holding that. [00:31:03][11.5]

[00:31:05] But what are you saying when you're saying it from Angle and with your show and your case and you're getting pitched and you having multiple shows? Yeah, it's from the opposite angle and you're coming from the documentary background. So your perspective is completely different to it is. [00:31:20][15.5]

[00:31:20] And I think I have always seen podcasting, like I've seen the majority of social media since with the advent of the arts and Silicon Valley's boom and the change of alliances and and legality issues and everything that everything has gone through Facebook, all of these things, I have seen podcasting as getting ready to enter into the exact same exercise, to go through a bunch of metamorphosis for creatives and creative minds to take that tool and do things that none of us thought. Someone hands you a paper clip and says it's used to keep papers together. I know engineers that would take that and make an earring out of it and forty five seconds. And so there's people that will take a tool and just reimagine it. And that for me is podcasting. It's this idea that it's it's a way of conveying information. But one of the most beautiful things for me that's been done with humanity over the past 50 years is our reanalysis of what information is, how we vet it and how we want to receive it. And podcasting is a player in that. And so I look to the creativity of people utilizing it, people like you, people reimagining it, coming into a business format internally. You know, that's an interesting one. I haven't really thought a lot about the utility there is limitless. [00:32:37][76.5]

[00:32:38] It affects everybody because company sizes, the way I think about it, is connecting people globally. So if I think about companies, I'll go, I'll say a UPS driver and thing. All those people are in a van driving around and they're in every city in America. And I think if there was a podcast or I think of Facebook and I think you've got Zuckerberg, well, not everyone can get 10, 15 minutes with him every week, but he can do a podcast and be in your ears and you can hear directly from the horse's mouth. So I think that it's going to be used in the company newsletter hearing from the people that people don't necessarily get access to. I think podcasting is a companion piece now. All the TV shows, they're all coming out with podcasts, with commentary on that. It can be used for historical as voice archives or family archives, everything, which I. [00:33:30][51.7]

[00:33:30] Yes, and I also think speaking to that point a little bit on my podcasts are very structured because that is I come from an academic history and background and I like a structure and then narrative within that. I personally, as a listener, I get very frustrated with podcasts where I don't really know where we're supposed to be headed, even with fascinating individuals. Just to someone, news is not really in my the purview of my schedules time allotment, regardless of how fantastically funny you are and things of that nature. But so I think that the idea of directorship with podcasting is going to start coming into play as well, because I think that people have realized that there needs to be more of a director. So you have these talents, you have these host, you have people who are doing things very, very well. But then content hasn't really been curated or thought about in that way. [00:34:21][50.6]

[00:34:21] And so having someone kind of lead this directorial message throughout the podcasting is is useful. [00:34:26][5.2]

[00:34:27] Yeah. And I think that having come from a broadcast radio background is an on air announcer, I think where I don't know when it will happen, but I also can foresee podcasts. [00:34:36][9.4]

[00:34:37] People are just two people chatting at the moment. But this view for segments as well, it doesn't have to be a chat. I to be you can make it anything you want. So I think that the big question all the time is how long should a podcast be? Who cares? You don't have a TV schedule to listen to. It's as long as it has to be. But it also doesn't have to be just one thing. You can put multiple segments in there. So I think it will become more of a show as well in certain areas. So that's a huge potential for multiple. [00:35:07][30.2]

[00:35:08] All things absolutely, I agree. And genre's specific and all sorts of things. Sounds like just got into a few a few more that have come about just due to the success of the current podcast that we're you're on right now. Yeah, you're talking you're talking roundtables. [00:35:24][16.0]

[00:35:24] That's not just to people chit chatting with no direction. That's a completely. And that's that's rare. Yeah, but it can't be. So I think people are just getting used to it, getting in there. And then, like you said, it's going to turn into something completely different in a few years time, which is so exciting. [00:35:40][16.0]

[00:35:41] I agree. Yeah, I think so too. [00:35:43][1.6]

[00:35:44] So if someone walked up to you tomorrow in the park or in the zoo with your niece and nephew and said, listen, I you know, I've had this huge background in advertising or in radio and podcasting, and I've got my feel for Hollywood and New York and I'm living in Australia and I'm thinking about launching my own company, one of the top three pieces of advice you would give her just kind of off the top of your head tomorrow. [00:36:08][24.0]

[00:36:09] I would say get this is just on my mind at the moment, but get an accountant and bookkeeper up front because so many of us just figure it out as we go along. [00:36:20][11.2]

[00:36:21] But if you're not an expert in something, having that foundation from the beginning is hugely important. And it's worth that investment up front to have the mechanics and skeleton of your business set first and build around it. Because if you're bootstrapping and doing things yourself for a couple of years, you're going to have to go back to the beginning and do it all from the start. Also for me, presence is everything so that having an awesome website and professional designer up front is important, especially for me. I look at the look I got was the company name, then the logo in the website, and I was able to create the brand around that. So I just think where you want to spend your money and don't cheap out on stuff, that is your brand and company's identity and structure from the beginning. And also that goes for Legal's as well. Don't DIY that kind of stuff, so know what to DIY and know what to outsource. Absolutely. [00:37:17][56.3]

[00:37:19] Those are great. All right, so I have got an accountant, a bookkeeper up front. [00:37:22][3.4]

[00:37:23] Presence is everything, getting awesome website and brand identity virtually up front and know what to DIY and know what to outsource. [00:37:31][7.7]

[00:37:32] Yeah. And the other thing that I found hugely important that I realized is missing that I didn't know in the beginning is online press kits. People don't have that ready, especially for podcast interviews, but it goes for any media is having your and that's something we make for our clients, but people just put it on their websites as well so you can make your own. [00:37:56][23.9]

[00:37:56] And that's having your headshots, having multiple versions of your bio, having a scheduling link, having videos of yourself as you as a speaker, having passed interviews, having links to the articles that you've been featured in and or written, having all your socials in one spot. If you've got your personal, social, your brand social, your podcasts, social, sometimes that can be 15 things. So make it easier for somebody looking for you to have everything in one spot and you're going to have more opportunities. So, Patricia, for you, with having so many guests on your show, having that would make your job so much easier and you're going to get more opportunities from that. So I think an online press kit seems like the last thing. But if you are looking for media, especially as an entrepreneur and also, like you are saying, a startup, I think having that up front and thinking of that and collecting all your assets along the way is important. [00:38:53][56.9]

[00:38:54] Absolutely. I do think people overlook press kits a lot these days. [00:38:57][2.9]

[00:38:58] In fact, even as they're seen on the website and things of that nature, we are just getting ready to launch a much, much needed updated version of Patricia Kathleen and pointed out that even someone who spent the last 16 months speaking to some of the most prolific women and female identified people across the world, I myself wasn't the website. Nothing was very clear. I was in more of the dealing of the information than branding oneself. And so it's good to see that we all can go in and out of struggling with that. It's a lot of work to, you know, the social media management and then everything I always tell people like. You can try to be everything to yourself up front, but always quickly, as quickly as possible, outsource, delegate, find people to do the right tasks, not just a task. What who's good at what? Make sure they do that kind of what you were speaking to your people working during prime productive productivity time. The same thing with tasks in my in my enterprise and with my crew. It's all who does what. Well, let's let. Yeah. [00:40:05][67.0]

[00:40:06] I don't want you to be a nine to five Monday to Friday. Seat warmers sitting around being switched off for two hours from three o'clock because your brain doesn't work that way. I'd rather you do five hours, get the results, go to the to the zoo or whatever it is, go out on a bus in London for the of the three hours and have a great life and be excited to come back for those five hours tomorrow or three hours, whatever it is. Then just sit in the chair looking out the window going, oh, I can't leave until everybody leaves. And I'm like, what's the point in that you're not happy you're getting the same results. Yeah. And the other thing is or it's so what you were saying about your website, get other people to look at it and give you feedback and treat yourself as if it wasn't yourself. So what's your website? What's your social? What's the copy? Is it consistent? Do you have everything in place? And it is adding things individually, but it's all to yourself. [00:41:00][54.3]

[00:41:01] Yeah, I agree. And I think that a lot of people have opinions about style and things that are very like taste specific. [00:41:08][6.9]

[00:41:09] But I think that another great place to hit up is to check your industry and YouTube and blogs and people of that nature who are especially your clients, like what information are your clients looking for when they hit your site? Because it's very different than what your grandmother would like to see. [00:41:23][14.5]

[00:41:24] Yeah, and that comes back to reverse engineering. Yeah, exactly. I agree. But if there's something you like, I will look at it and go, Oh, I like that. And then I think, why do I like it? What is it that I like about that? What is working, what isn't working and then appropriate to what you want and think, oh, it's the font, OK, is it that particular font or is it just the font. It's the font. OK, well I'll choose my own. So I think I don't I don't know what it is about brains or whatever, but that's how it works for me and other people's brains might work in a different way. [00:41:55][30.7]

[00:41:55] But I love reverse engineering everything I do and I love, you know, I do with like my wardrobe, like one of my relaxation techniques. But I put things on the calendar. [00:42:05][10.6]

[00:42:06] The first of every month. I'm going to start just looking back over the tech. You know, you can you can have one font, one moment and another and the next keeping something up is. [00:42:17][10.5]

[00:42:19] As long as it's consistent, like you are talking about style choices, again, personal taste, not everyone likes everything, taste changes. I get that as long as it's consistent, then that's the important thing. [00:42:30][11.5]

[00:42:31] But you don't want to have your website, your personal website, different to Facebook, different. Do you linked in to all these different photographs? Just consistency, because people are clicking through and looking at things and they're looking for a crosscheck and verify moment. So the lack of. Does it look good? Yes. Is it consistent? Yes. Is the photo and I guess is the message right? Yes. So it's like check, check, check, check, check, check, check. And that's what you're looking for. Absolutely. [00:42:54][23.3]

[00:42:55] That press kit of continuity. I agree. Well, we are at the end of our road with this road map. Kelly, I wanted to say thank you so much for taking the time. It's a busy holiday season. [00:43:06][10.6]

[00:43:06] You're a busy founder and and you're across the world. Thank you so much for stopping everything and just chatting with us about your history, about the talent squad. You guys can find it at the talent squad dot com online and reach out to calibrates. Want to say thank you so much, Kelly. [00:43:22][15.8]

[00:43:23] Thank you. And thank you for this amazing platform. You're changing people's lives you will never meet and never know about. And there's some founda that's business is going to be different because of you. So thank you, Patricia. [00:43:34][11.0]

[00:43:35] Absolutely. And your story as well. Right? It's you and me helping those people. I agree. And to everyone listening, I'm going to piggyback on Kelly and say thank you for your time and listening. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte. [00:43:35][0.0]

[2521.7]

View Details

Interview with Mary Fain Brandt: CEO and Founder of The LinkedIn Bakery and Mary Fain Brandt Coaching and Consulting.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company website Wild Dot Agency. That's w i l d dot agency or my personal website. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:25][77.9]

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. [00:01:31][1.2]

[00:01:32] This is your host, Patricia, and today I'm sitting down with Mary Fain Brandt. Mary is the CEO and founder of the LinkedIn Bakery, as well as founder of Mary Fain Brandt Coaching and Consulting. Welcome, Mary. [00:01:44][12.3]

[00:01:45] Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here talking to you. And in this space where female founders and future entrepreneurs and business owners can help level each other up. [00:01:57][11.9]

[00:01:57] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of unpack everything that you're doing. I think your story is going to really nicely be a nice addition to the stories that we've had so far over the past 18 months on this podcast. [00:02:08][10.8]

[00:02:09] For everyone listening, a really quick roadmap of today's podcast going to follow the same trajectory as all of them in that the roadmap will be investigating various academic background and early professional life. And then we will turn to unpacking their LinkedIn bakery, as well as Mary Fain Brandt coaching and consulting those two different endeavors of hers. And we'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, how, why. And then we'll kind of get into the ethos of both companies as well. Then we'll turn our attention towards the goals that Mary has for the next three years in either or both of those companies regarding scaling expansion, Brandt changes, anything she has planned for the horizon. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that Mary may have for those of you looking to emulate what she does or currently get involved with her work. Now, so quick bio on Mary. Mary Brandt is the CEO and founder of the LinkedIn Bakery and Mary Fame Brandt Coaching and Consulting. She's a national LinkedIn trainer and strategist who works with savvy business women, not to mention a few guys here and there who want to stand out as experts in their industry and get more clients using LinkedIn. She has worked with over five hundred plus clients worldwide. Mary is the host of her own live show, Bite Sized Tips for Busy Entrepreneurs, as well as the creator of two online courses. The courses are the Job Seekers Guide to Building Your LinkedIn Profile and How to Find Clients Using LinkedIn. The Entrepreneurs Guide to turning your LinkedIn profile into a lead magnet known for her fun and informative style. She is an energetic speaker and workshop facilitator who creates engaging learning environments. So I am so excited to kind of climb into your companies and what they do. I have had some recent experience with, I think, companies of a similar nature and I can't wait to kind of unpack it. But first of all, you drop us into your academic background and your early professional life. [00:04:02][113.3]

[00:04:03] Sure, I'd love to. Again, just thank you so much for having me on your show. And I hope everyone listening gets a nugget or two of tips or inspiration or motivation. [00:04:13][10.3]

[00:04:14] So I didn't go to college right after high school. I, I tried and it just didn't work for me at the time. I was the sole provider and so I worked full time and going to school just didn't work. I went back to school. I went to a junior college to get all my lower credits done. [00:04:34][19.7]

[00:04:35] And then I transferred to Chatmon and I got my first degree when I was I want to say thirty eight. Nice. So I got my bachelor's at Chapman University in Organizational Leadership and I did that via satellite campuses, but it was in person classes. And then I had such a great experience at Chapman. [00:04:54][19.5]

[00:04:55] And I love organizational leadership learning about people and cultures. Right. And how we're perceived by people and how we learn differently. And so I went on and I got my master's and I did that with Chapman again, with a blended classes of online and in person. [00:05:10][14.9]

[00:05:10] I'm still in touch with some of my peers from my classes, some nice some of them came to my wedding. I got married only six years ago, so. Yeah, so my education was a little different. It's not that. [00:05:24][13.7]

[00:05:24] Go to high school, go to college, get a job. Mine was work y I was in high school, my parents were divorced. So again I was working to support myself, help my mom out, went back to college, learned so much and I think I valued it because I paid for it myself. I was working full time going to school. [00:05:43][18.2]

[00:05:43] So talk about those late nights. But it was I always say that education. No one can ever take that away from you. Right? It's yours. You've earned it. You own it. And no one can ever take that away from you. [00:05:57][13.5]

[00:05:57] And I am a big proponent of education, all types of education. So whether it's college or seminars or conferences, I'm what they call a lifelong learner. I love to learn. And if I could get paid just to study and and share what I learn, I would just do that. [00:06:13][15.8]

[00:06:13] And I guess to do that and I truth that is everything. If there's a free lecture, I'm there. I'm early now. [00:06:21][7.9]

[00:06:21] I just want to soak it up and then I want to share it with the world. So I'm a very enthusiastic person and when I love something, I tell. [00:06:29][7.5]

[00:06:29] Everyone about it, so whether it's a process we studied a lot of change development as as human beings, we do not like change. We do not embrace change because we fear it. But once you kind of understand that, then there's different ways to look at change in different ways to put change into a process. So that was a huge for me in my organizational leadership classes. And just understanding the high viewpoint, we talked a lot about the view from the balcony versus the view from the dance floor, which are two totally different viewpoints for people. [00:07:07][38.0]

[00:07:08] And they strategically put that into. I'm wondering, because that metaphor for me speaks to like the view of a company and what it is from within as opposed to what it is to your customer from without. [00:07:20][12.6]

[00:07:21] Well, it's also what the management sees here. And the team players are down here. And you've got to bring your view down on the dance floor where everything's happening. [00:07:30][9.8]

[00:07:31] The view's pretty up from the balcony. Right. But the work is getting done down on the dance floor. So you need to have a view down there. So, yeah, there's just I, I could talk about organizational leadership development, change management. Like, it brings me back to what I learned in college. And obviously I really, really enjoyed what I learned. And I take it to heart. I get to use some of that now in my business and in my personal life. [00:07:57][25.9]

[00:07:58] Did your did your degree kind of launch you into your starting up the LinkedIn bakery, or was it like a kind of a winding path? [00:08:05][7.1]

[00:08:07] So it definitely did not. Get me to start my business, my entrepreneur journey is much different, I feel for most people I did not want to be an entrepreneur. So when I when I graduated with my master's degree, I was working at the Bishop School in the great private school. I really thought I would probably stay there and see my years out there. I had a pool to swim in at lunch. We had milk break and lunch brought to us. I mean, it was a sweet gig. I went on by The Cove after work. And so when I got my masters, everyone was like, well, what are you going to do now? And I'm like, I'm not going to do anything. I have a great job. Right. And it was two thousand two thousand eight, you know, and two thousand seven and then two thousand 11 when I got my masters. So, you know, the economy up and down, I wasn't going to do anything. So I stayed put. Yeah. So I stayed put for a while and then things shifted at what caused the shift management there. My boss and I just never saw eye to eye. And so this is what I work with, with my clients. I tell them life is too short. It's not a dress rehearsal. Don't be stuck in a career that doesn't fulfill you. I was walking on eggshells. I had anxiety, I had insomnia. And I have something. It was called The Sun 60s, where you get so full of anxiety on Sunday night about going to your job on Monday that you get sick, you can't sleep. You call in sick on Monday because you're just full of tension. So those of you that are listening, you can't see me. But Kathleen can say, like, I'm clenching up about it and I do that naturally, like not even thinking about it. It was so bad. And I thought I had to stay there. And we don't we have options. But taking a chance, making a move, making a change is scary, right? We are unknown. And so what happened was my mother got sick, so I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. My dad had his own real estate company I tried working for. I was like, no, because he had great months and then he had bad months. So it was like you were rolling in the money. Everything's great. Oh, we don't have any money. Health care is four hundred dollars a month. This was way back then. And so I saw my dad go through the struggles and so it wasn't a journey I was ready to take. And so that's why I say my journey to entrepreneurship is a little different. I didn't seek out to be an entrepreneur. I was kind of forced or thrusted into it when my mother got sick. But a lot of strain on me at my job. I decided to leave so I could be her caregiver and take care of her. [00:10:53][166.6]

[00:10:54] And I had already coached some people out of jobs at bishops. I was meeting with him at lunch. We were talking through what they liked, what they didn't like, and two of them left the school for better opportunities. And this was all for free. I was kind of like just that go to person. So it made sense that I would want to help more women find fulfilling careers. [00:11:15][21.2]

[00:11:16] And so at that point when I left, I couldn't get a nine to five job because I needed to be there for my mom. She had Alzheimer's and I wanted to keep her at home as long as possible. And so what I did is I worked part time at another school. Why I launched my business and launching a business. You guys, it's not easy. I can't lie. It's hard. It takes a lot of your time, your resources, your money, and you don't know what you don't know. And one day I'm going to write a book about how to save ten thousand dollars your first year. Because I bought every program out there. I spent a lot of money that I didn't need to because I thought everything had to be perfect to launch websites and logos and and you do need to work on all that. But I've already changed my work. I changed my website and my logo within two years of launching because it wasn't right the first time, because I didn't do the homework. [00:12:06][49.9]

[00:12:08] Yeah, absolutely. And that evolution is it can be a lot a lot more gentle if it is allowed to be more malleable in the beginning and grow that kind of like just get something up and you can change it later, I think. [00:12:21][12.9]

[00:12:21] Absolutely highly recommend that. Just go for it, get something out there, work with a branding expert to establish your Brandt like I know my brand. Now I can describe it in four words. It's fun and informative, casual and conversational. That is who I am. That is who my Brandt is. I was trying to fit myself inside a box. [00:12:41][20.2]

[00:12:42] So my advice to you is be you in this day and age, just be you. [00:12:48][6.0]

[00:12:49] Don't try to be somebody else, don't try to put yourself in a box and look like everybody else out there in social media because there is only one you and you have something valuable to bring to the table. [00:13:00][10.9]

[00:13:01] Yeah, absolutely. So when you how did it kind of come together? How did you recognize. So the LinkedIn bakery first give us a little bit of a background. So exactly what is it? [00:13:13][11.3]

[00:13:14] So the LinkedIn bakery, that's a second division of my company, Mary Faceprint Coaching and consulting. [00:13:19][5.5]

[00:13:20] I started as a career coach helping women because I didn't want to see I didn't want women to go through what I went through, feeling stuck, trapped, didn't know how to execute a job search, didn't know what platforms to be on. So I started as a career coach. And one thing I found is all my clients needed help with LinkedIn like they either weren't on the platform or they had a profile that was probably four years old and didn't showcase their true talents and skills. So I started learning about LinkedIn and then I was doing some seminars and conferences and I had this light go off that, oh, my gosh, entrepreneurs need to be on this platform. And it was always thought of. Lincoln was always thought of as a platform to put your resume. Yeah. Up your resume up there. Right. And find a job. So when I started this five years ago now, I always would say that LinkedIn was the ugly duckling of the social media platforms. It was clunky. [00:14:20][59.9]

[00:14:20] Absolutely. I would agree. [00:14:21][0.8]

[00:14:21] Yeah, it wasn't user friendly. It wasn't it wasn't valuable content out there. And thankfully, it's really improved. So what happened? I was working with clients. They needed help with LinkedIn. And so I went into full training mode and then I saw an opportunity for entrepreneurs to stand out. You don't have to pay to be on LinkedIn. You can do everything. You can do it using the free version. And so fast forward to April 30th. Twenty sixteen. And my mom passed and I hadn't rebranded yet, but it took me a couple of months to work through that. And to be honest, I was like, OK, God, I had a lot of conversations with God. I was like, OK, if I need to go get a job, I'll go do this now because I'm not tied to taking care of my mom. [00:15:11][50.3]

[00:15:12] And I had no clients at the time. Right, because I was taking care of her and my clients had wrapped up and I wasn't really marketing and I got one client for seventy nine dollars. I know that sounds hilarious, but it was like an intro strategy session. And then I got an opportunity to do a workshop for one hundred and fifty dollars. Again, it sounds ridiculous, but it was these little breadcrumbs that were coming into my path that got me excited that like, OK, I'm supposed to do this. I have a purpose. [00:15:42][29.3]

[00:15:43] I'm supposed to use what I learned to help other people. And so we rebranded in Twenty Seventeen and the LinkedIn bakery that honors my mom because she was this amazing baker and I inherited that skill. [00:15:56][13.1]

[00:15:57] So the LinkedIn bakery serving up bite size tips, I wanted my Brandt to be more of who I am. A little more fun, colorful. I didn't want most people think LinkedIn is boring and it's it's just all professional and it is a professional platform, but it's OK to infuse some of your personality. So I wanted to reBrandt with a fun name that would get people thinking like, oh, what is that? And I wanted to honor my mom. So when we rebranded, we also give three percent of all sales to the local Alzheimer's Association. [00:16:29][32.2]

[00:16:30] Oh, wonderful. That's a great that's a great contribution to her and her memory and her name. [00:16:35][4.9]

[00:16:36] I think that all companies should give back, like, that's just part of who I am. Like every company should be set up from day one where you're giving back something. [00:16:43][7.3]

[00:16:44] Absolutely. So differentiating the bakery for me are the two the two online courses are those through the bakery? Are those through the coaching and consulting? [00:16:54][10.1]

[00:16:55] Well, there they're actually on teachable, so they're both there so anyone can find them. So the career coaching one. Right for the job seekers, that is through Mary Fain Brandt coaching and consulting. And then the one for the entrepreneurs is really through the LinkedIn bakery. [00:17:10][14.6]

[00:17:11] And how to both of those courses come about? Was it just a collective action of knowledge over the past two years that you just wanted to put into course? [00:17:17][5.9]

[00:17:18] So I started this journey in twenty fourteen. We rebranded in twenty seventeen. So it's been about five years, four years of learning about LinkedIn and. I used to hold live workshops, write monthly LinkedIn labs, and we get 10 to 12 people together. We did that for two years and then they started dying down and I. I couldn't serve the masses. Right. There are so many people that could do so well on LinkedIn, but I don't have time to serve the one on one coaching takes up a lot of time. And so I wanted to create courses where people could go and learn everything that I teach in a one on one. But the beauty about my courses is I've taken so many online courses half the time you don't finish them or you get stuck, right. You get stuck and you have paralysis analysis and you can't move forward. So with my courses, they all come with live office hours. So once a week I go live. Students can tune in, they can ask questions, they can get immediate feedback. They can share their profiles. Or if it's a job seeking course, they can share their car statements or their day in the dream job. Whatever course you're in, we have leave office hours so that you have a accountability feedback and immediate help. Right. Right. Have you ever taken an online course where you get stuck or you don't use it? Oh, sure. [00:18:47][89.7]

[00:18:48] Yeah. And it's also I get bored if it's not written beautifully, if the interaction isn't correct. [00:18:53][4.6]

[00:18:53] I mean, there's an absolute elegant I've I've I've taught online courses as an art history professor and there is an art to it. There's it's a completely different platform. It integrates some of the same axiomatic details as the knowledge taught in person or in class in lecture. But there is there's different tools that you can utilize to your benefit. But there's also ways that you can really lose your audience in just this constant reading of a script or too many articles that could have dead links. I mean, you have to have a fluidity. You've got to make sure everything's buttoned up. And I've taken online courses that didn't have any of those things. And I thought, this is a waste of my time. [00:19:31][38.0]

[00:19:32] I can't exactly. Mine has PDF templates because nobody likes writing about themselves. Right? It's hard. It's hard. It's like my clients are always like, well, I don't like to sell myself. I'm like, you're not selling, you are selling yourself. We all have to sell ourselves. So I have all these exercises, templates, video tutorials that walk them through whatever the module is about. [00:19:55][23.7]

[00:19:56] But I think the the magic, it happens in the office hours and the private groups. So we have private groups set up where people can put their homework and stuff. And I just I don't want to just have a chorus to have a course. I want to have a course that makes a difference. I want to have a course that people actually like and they finish and they get results. [00:20:14][18.2]

[00:20:15] Yeah, absolutely. The implementation. So now tell me, what kind of a profile is someone who's who's best for your courses or for your consulting, or are you looking for people who are in sales driven enterprises or product driven? [00:20:29][13.6]

[00:20:32] So for the for the LinkedIn Guide for the entrepreneurs, how to turn your LinkedIn profile into a lead magnet sales is great. [00:20:39][7.2]

[00:20:40] Consultants, coaches, speakers, social media managers, contractors, freelancers. Also, we could do sales training, how to teach your your sales team to lead on LinkedIn and have those leads coming to them directly, right? [00:20:59][19.1]

[00:21:00] Absolutely. [00:21:00][0.0]

[00:21:01] So from both of these, you, I'm guessing, was a bootstrapped or did you in the very beginning in launching in 2014, did you have any funding, any seed capital or anything like that? [00:21:12][11.1]

[00:21:14] I'm like, I'm going to write a book of what not to buy your first year. You don't need to hire expensive coaches, I believe, and coaches. And I think there's a time and place for them. [00:21:25][11.5]

[00:21:26] But that first year you're trying to unless you already have a coach, you're really trying to figure things out. Yeah. What are your services? I think that you need to have a tribe. You need to have a community. I was a member of a hub. And I have to say, like, that was a great starting space for me to bounce ideas off of and to get feedback. I presented some workshops there which helped get my feet wet. [00:21:48][22.3]

[00:21:48] And listening is a kind of a female focused. I know that you can join as men as well, but it's a coworking space that I'm not sure it's internationally. I've interviewed two people. [00:21:59][10.8]

[00:21:59] It has viewed the founder, Felina Hansen, as well as love her hub in Sweden and in Washington, DC, Orange County three here in San Diego, Mission Valley, Sorento Valley, Carlsbad, Arizona. There's one in Phenix now. Yeah. [00:22:16][16.5]

[00:22:17] So anyone listening? Listening, that's the basis of it. And anyone who wants a back story on the founder of that, listen to Felina Hansen. So you are a member of that community. That's an interesting one, because I've always wondered. [00:22:28][11.4]

[00:22:30] What the utility like, it feels like out of a hub, I mean, the office coworking environment has been heavily utilized for kind of what it sounds like you were doing, bouncing ideas off of people, getting useful information that they offer during lecture and things of that nature. But what did you personally receive from it? [00:22:46][16.6]

[00:22:47] Well, I received a place where I could practice my speaking skills so I could go and I could do these business boosters. And there was a guideline and a template of how Felina like some structured and that helped me get in front of small groups to practice my trade. Right. I could practice what I'm teaching. Was it valuable? They gave feedback. I also was one. I was the LinkedIn guru. They have guru hours. So I was a LinkedIn guru and I would sit in the lobby and people could come and ask me questions again. That practice that you need in the beginning of sharing, what information are you sharing for free and what information does someone need to pay you for? Because it's hard when you're starting off. You want to be known like I want to be someone that provides value all the time. We drop a Tuesday tip every Tuesday at nine a.m. you can follow me. And every Tuesday we were at one hundred and seven tips. And so we drop free tips. But how much? When I was starting off as an entrepreneur, how much do I give away? How do I give that away? So they want to work with me. And I think that is something that a lot of entrepreneurs when they're starting up. That's something difficult like, well, I don't want to give them everything because I want them to hire me or I want them to buy a contract with me. So how much do you give to be shown as that expert versus. Saying it in a way of like, you need to have a profile and here's three tips, but there's so much more that you need, this is just the tip of the iceberg, right? So I feel I feel like Karaba allowed me to practice my trade there in front of safe. In my opinion, it was a safe environment. [00:24:30][102.8]

[00:24:31] You know, it wasn't the big stage being thrown there or in an environment that I wasn't familiar with. [00:24:35][4.5]

[00:24:36] Right. I'm curious with the like getting into your platform, reaching back to what you said about LinkedIn. [00:24:42][5.7]

[00:24:43] It reminds me of when when I first started seeing job postings, what, four years ago on Instagram. [00:24:49][6.2]

[00:24:50] I thought, this is so why is someone doing this? [00:24:52][2.3]

[00:24:53] And now it's like the number one place, aside from LinkedIn to learn about new job positions or. Yeah. And I think that the creativity in that is that someone took a platform that was largely just based for photo sharing and small video files and decided that because they had a business account, they were going to put a job piece up there. And and since then, I've talked to doctors that have switched hospitals based on a job they found on Instagram. I mean, just so many different things. But I feel like LinkedIn has the same prophecy built in. And ironically, it hasn't been fully utilized by at least not the people I know of. Even to date. You can get some background information and people such as myself will research someone's academic history or something like that if you're if you're trying to get more information on a guest. But. I think that there are moments of kind of exactly what it sounds like the ethos of Billington Bakery is in your coaching and consulting, is that the tools not being utilized to its fullest capacity for you're given NEACH instead of a guide is is, I think, crucial. [00:25:58][65.8]

[00:26:00] People tend to put a profile up. They'll even spruce it up, create a custom headline, make that custom URL so that you'll rank higher on Google and LinkedIn because we all want to rank higher on social media. [00:26:11][11.4]

[00:26:12] But then they do nothing, know they do nothing. They wait until they need the platform and then they want it to work for them. And that's not how it works. I tell people that LinkedIn is a long game. It's not a short game. [00:26:25][12.5]

[00:26:25] Right. Get in it for the long game for the payoff in a year, two years, three years. Grow your strong and strategic network now and it will serve you in the future. So for my job seekers, even once they secure a new job, I'm like, don't give up on LinkedIn, keep building your network, keep posting on there because you still want to stay top of mind and tip of tongue, as my girl Stephanie says. And you want to be ready. I love that saying top of mind, pipitone. You want to be ready for that next career move, because most jobs, the average length of a job these days is about three years. Two months. That's from manpower. So my job seekers need to be ready all the time. And for my entrepreneurs, you're always want to be filling your your pipeline. Right. And somebody might be following you on LinkedIn. They're not ready to buy from you, to work with you, to hire you yet. But if you're top of mind, Antiproton, and you're known and if you're niche down, you know, female entrepreneurs, that's my target market. Right. Niche down. And they're seeing that I'm constantly providing value and I'm letting them into who I am because I am on a couple other platforms. When the time is right, I have people that will reach out to me and say, I've been following you for a year, Mary. I'm like, wow, and they are silent, like, I don't know, they're following me, I don't I don't they're not commenting on my posts and stuff. They might be watching. I do my live show twice a month, know, and I'll get a lot of use. I don't know everybody who's watching, but they're watching. And you want to feel your pipeline not just for 30 days, 60 days. I'm talking long term goals. [00:28:06][100.8]

[00:28:07] Yeah, a thousand percent. So what are speaking of goals over the next? [00:28:13][6.0]

[00:28:13] That's a great Segway. You led me right into it and I'm going to return it back to you. [00:28:18][4.4]

[00:28:18] So over the next three years, what are your basic plans also? Do you look at goals that way? Do you go as far out as three years? I feel like coaches and people like that have a really refined sense of goals and horizon tasks and things like that. So what is your particular flavor of that and what are your future goals for your company? [00:28:37][18.8]

[00:28:37] I love goals, so I usually attend Felina Strategic Planning Day where we map out the goals for the year. And it's hilarious because I have these huge posters still in my office with my goals for this year made. [00:28:52][14.1]

[00:28:52] Some of us didn't make some of them. I really believe in setting goals. I believe in setting six month goals, reviewing them at six months, because most likely you're going to pivot a service, worked a course work, of course, didn't work. You want more speaking gigs, so set at least your first six months of goals. My three year goal is that we leave San Diego and we're moving to Lake Havasu City, Arizona, where my dad is, and a humble friends have bought houses. We have a boat out there and I'd like to be closer to the boat, to the lake and the goal next year. I have like I said, I have a virtual assistant and a resume writer. I'd like to have a small team. I'm not looking to build the Amy Porterfield of LinkedIn. Right. If you guys don't know who Amy Porterfield is, she's local. She started with Facebook ads and now she has a digital course academy and she's fabulous. I love her podcast. I'm looking to build a small team of about five to eight people where we're producing done for youth services and something that we tested out this year because there's a lot of busy professionals out there that need no they need to have a better LinkedIn presence, but they don't have the time to write it so we can do that for them. So that is something that I see next year happening. I see more courses coming and I see me reducing the number of hours I'm working because the packages are bigger and I have a team doing the work. That's the three year goal. [00:30:18][86.3]

[00:30:19] Excellent. How do you like your virtual assistant? I love her, yeah. [00:30:23][3.7]

[00:30:23] Do you find that there's a ton of I'm curious because it's kind of just burgeoning. [00:30:27][3.6]

[00:30:28] I've had friends using virtual assistants without having even that name on it for several years now. But I've talked to people who've said, oh, it's genius, depending on the kind of work you need done. And I've had other people say, you know, it took so much explanation. It was just it was the delegation. I said, I feel like it's task oriented. [00:30:45][17.5]

[00:30:46] It is task oriented. So so I learned that to hire a VA the right way. So this is my third one. Is that you? Actually, here's my tip, you guys. If you're thinking about hiring a VA first, you test them. You give them a project that will take less than an hour and you tell them that you want to see their work. So I did not pay her. I gave her a specific task that I knew was about forty five minutes. And you see how long it's going to take them. And do they do a good job? Is it 90 percent right. If they can do that then give them a try. If they can't get that done in the time and it's less than 90 percent, maybe eighty five, maybe eighty percent. Right. That's probably not the right person for you. Also, a VA can't do everything you need to have different views. So my VA does email marketing the social media. We're working on transcribing all the videos and she's taking over, like creating the Facebook events, all the social media stuff. She is great. I need someone else for videos. Right. She's not a video expert. So so my advice is hire the right VA for the right job. Don't hire one VA to do everything. Test your VA, give them a tax. It'll take an hour. And if you don't think you can afford VA, I'm telling you, it is the best decision that I made over a year ago. Start with two hours a week. That is how we started, because it's scary to hand your business over to a stranger in a different country. That mine is in the Philippines and I've heard that the Filipino visas are the best FFI, so I've heard that as well. Yeah. So start with just two hours a week or an hour a week hand over something simple that isn't going to ruin your business if there's a mistake and then just build on that. So we're up to eight hours a week. No. [00:32:37][111.0]

[00:32:39] Yeah, absolutely, that's amazing and I yeah, I think outsourcing anyone who's looking at outsourcing, it's kind of a burgeoning industry and there's a lot of chatter online. [00:32:47][8.7]

[00:32:48] I know that people can cross reference. When I first started thinking about a virtual assistant, things of that nature, I felt like it was a big thing. People had people with them. I just spoke I just interviewed someone who had an issue with identity theft through an assistant that was and stateside that was here and working with her. And I think that the greatest fear of VA is when you're handing over, for instance, to social media manager account, things of that nature, you're handing them over the identity of your business. [00:33:16][27.9]

[00:33:17] And that's true. And you have to. [00:33:18][1.3]

[00:33:19] But I think there's vetting happening, right? [00:33:21][1.6]

[00:33:21] Yeah. And you have to you have to be smart. So I use a password manager. She doesn't have any passwords. I can lock her out at any time. [00:33:28][7.2]

[00:33:30] OK, and you do that for all your social media accounts. It's interesting. [00:33:32][2.7]

[00:33:33] She yeah. She has access to all my programs that I use. I have a ton of different programs that we use for producing shows and the just the video stuff and transcriptions. [00:33:45][11.9]

[00:33:46] So everything's done via last pass. So she doesn't actually have a password the same. I also have a web designer on my team. Right. So my Web person, she has access through last pass. You never give your passwords out. You don't need to in today's technology and get a password manager. When I start working with entrepreneurs, I'm like, here's the basics. We go through it. Every on my checklist is do you have a password manager? When they say no, I'm like, that's your number one priority. A business email and a password manager. Yeah, right. You got to have those things when you're launching your business. [00:34:22][36.1]

[00:34:23] Absolutely. For protection. I agree. And it's peace of mind. So I'm wondering if someone kind of stumbled into you tomorrow at the park or at the lake next time you're out on your boat, right up next to you and said, you know, I was kind of late to some of the game. [00:34:40][16.7]

[00:34:40] I had a professional life and I went back to school. And now things have kind of turned and it looks like I'm going to start my own company. [00:34:45][5.5]

[00:34:46] And I'd be like, yes, congratulations. [00:34:48][1.3]

[00:34:49] What are the three pieces of advice you'd give her? [00:34:52][2.2]

[00:34:56] One piece of advice is if you don't have a big chunk of money, you should probably work part time while you build your business, it takes longer to build the business to profit than you think. That is the biggest thing. And there's no shame in that, you guys. [00:35:13][17.0]

[00:35:13] There is no shame in working full time or part time when you launched your business. A lot of people do it. What? They just don't talk about it. So there's no shame in that. No. To really work with a branding marketing person, get your Brandt down the first time and it can change as you go along. But I think the the more that, you know, your Brandt and your Brandt is on point, the better, the easier it is for you to market and for you to sell it. Third, you don't need to be on every platform. That was one of the mistakes I made. I thought I had to be on every platform. And before I had a social media tool, I would get up in the morning. I'd like tell my husband, oh my God, I got to post on all these different platforms and I would be copying and pasting until I have a social media tool. Pictou. Don't you know what, Pictou That you are a rock star on my two hour LinkedIn and Facebook, I have an Instagram account, I post some stuff, but I don't engage. If you are not going to engage with your network and your community on that platform, don't be on it. [00:36:17][63.9]

[00:36:18] Right. [00:36:18][0.0]

[00:36:19] Yeah, engagement is key, so I've got if you don't have a chunk of dough, it's there's no shame in working part time or full time work with a branding marketing person. And you don't have to be on every platform. Pictou Like that. That's really cool. [00:36:34][14.8]

[00:36:34] You're the first person, I think in the past year and a half that I've spoken with at one of the top three pieces of advice is based. Well, it's very apropos given what you do, but is based on limiting the social media platforms that I think you're right. People really waste time doing this necessary post because the advice is the kind of YouTube advice is like you've got to stay present and there is a difference between staying present and just kind of manically posting these half baked ideas across all platforms. [00:37:03][28.9]

[00:37:04] And you do have to say stay present. But where are your clients? Like my clients, my career clients, were they there on LinkedIn looking for jobs? Right. My entrepreneurs that don't know they need to be there. [00:37:16][12.0]

[00:37:16] I love LinkedIn because I find so much value in content. I started with Facebook and for my generation were on Facebook. The younger generation, they're on Instagram. So if your clients are twenty five, right. Twenty five to thirty five, they're going to be on Instagram. So no, your clients. And that's not to say you guys, that you won't find clients on those other platforms, that you won't get referred. But don't, don't spend hours, hours every day trying to be on every platform. Be good on two. [00:37:45][28.6]

[00:37:46] That's awesome. I love it. Well we are out of time, but I wanted to say thank you so much, Mary. I know you have a crazy schedule with the holidays upon us, it's magnified or amplified by ten. And so I just wanted to say thank you for giving us your time and your advice today. [00:37:59][13.5]

[00:38:00] Oh, thank you so much for having me. And I hope that everyone has a wonderful year end wrap up and you guys start setting those goals. [00:38:07][7.3]

[00:38:08] Absolutely. We're looking forward to the new year. Let's get goal making. Well, we'll circle back to I would love to find out in about six months how how your goals are looking and kind of reaching further to some of your advice. [00:38:20][12.1]

[00:38:21] Sweet. I would love to chat again for everyone listening. [00:38:24][2.5]

[00:38:24] Thank you so much for giving us your time. And until we chat again, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte. [00:38:24][0.0]

[2210.0]

View Details

Interview with founder and author Lisa Hyde. Lis is the founder of The Confidence Crown and a health and beauty expert as well as an advisor to next-generation entrepreneurs. Her recently released book BE #StrongHER - A Guide to Building Confidence is a workbook illustrating how readers can implement her strategies and techniques in building confidence.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it. Histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company Web site. Wild Ducks agency. That's w i. L. D e. Dot Agency or my personal Web site.

[00:01:20] Patricia. Kathleen. Dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down Lisa Hyde.

[00:01:35] She is the founder of the Confidence Crowd and a health and beauty expert, as well as an adviser to the next generation of entrepreneurs. Welcome, Lisa.

[00:01:44] Thank you so much for having me on, Patricia. Screech Absolutely.

[00:01:47] I'm excited to climb through everything that you're doing for everyone listening. I'm going to read a bio. Only said it really quickly.

[00:01:52] A roadmap of today's podcast will follow the same trajectory as all of these, which is we will cover Lisa's academic background and early professional life, and then we will turn to unpacking her current endeavors and company and all of the pursuits within the confidence crown and nuts and bolts all the way until the ethos of the company. Then we'll turn to the goals that Lisa may have for over the next three years, scaling expansion and brand changes. Any areas that she foresees, any changes or evolution. And then we'll wrap everything up with the advice at least we have for those looking to get involved or follow her or kind of mirror what some of her company's successes have been. A quick bio only cell at Lisa Hyde is a serial entrepreneur, beauty, health and wellness expert and founder of the Confidence Crown, a lifestyle brand and weekly podcast delivering authentic and compelling content for women as a motivational speaker and inspirational coach. We say uses her infectious energy to empower women to become the queen of their life, a form as a former Hollywood talent agent and manager. Lisa traded her corporate life for more time and financial freedom through her work as an independent consultant for the North America's number one skincare brand, Rodan and Fields. Now she is able to live freely and most importantly, help women across the globe pursue their passion of owning their own business while improving their competence inside and out. Lisa resides in Los Angeles with her fur baby Weegee. For more information, visit the competence crown dot com. And I'm not sure if I said his or her name, right?

[00:03:26] No, you did that perfectly. I would thank you.

[00:03:29] And I was like, oh, my gosh, which virus? Now, that's fantastic. That was spot on. And he is witty. And he's fabulous. He's fantastic. What brand would broad brand. He's superior.

[00:03:43] What breed? A Chihuahua rat terrier rescue.

[00:03:48] And honestly, the sweetest guy in the whole world. And he just turned twelve.

[00:03:53] Thanksgiving and night. Yeah. He's a fifth rescued, but by far the best. He's just fun. Really, really smart. And just makes my day. He's not. He's such a good guy. He sounds small. He sounds like a smaller swallowing. Fourteen pounds. But he's got these long legs so he tricks everyone. People think he's a lot bigger, but he's a mighty with his bark.

[00:04:20] And that's what counts, right. Yeah, absolutely. Well so will you cross into. Before we jump into like everything that you're doing right now.

[00:04:27] I know you've got some exciting stuff happening on your horizon as well, but were you close to your academic background and your early professional life so you can get a feel for where you came from?

[00:04:37] Sure. And I thank you for asking because it's funny. People don't want to know, like, well, where did you start?

[00:04:43] This is a long road. I will try to make it short for you. But I grew up here in L.A.. I'm a third generation Los Angeles now, but also a third generation talent agent. So I had my eyes on being an agent from a very young age.

[00:04:56] At five, I sort of scribbling the logo of the company I wanted to work for. Well, so my whole path was how quickly can I get into the mailroom to start one of the hardest jobs I've ever, ever tackled in my life.

[00:05:13] And it required a B.A. So I went to USC. I actually graduated in four years. It took me 10 years to pay off, but I did it.

[00:05:23] And I'm old school, S.C., so no, no thinking. I'm part of the new crew.

[00:05:30] No one paid anything to get you in there. No. On the serious OGE. No, I got it.

[00:05:34] Took me 10 years to pay off. There were no no bribes happening. But I love the school. I knew again I was gonna have a career in entertainment. So I actually went there to look for anything else besides entertainment to interest me. And in fact, except for Austin sociology class that happened with a visiting professor from Harvard. I was pretty gung ho and took.

[00:06:01] Everything I could to study and, you know, just get done in four years. But ended up with a film minor so I could learn about my clients. So I want to kind of understand their side of it. And the passion was there. I started in the mailroom at William Morris.

[00:06:17] A week after I graduated, which is boot camp. So. They don't teach you what I want to do for her, hear her in any class. There's nothing in school you can learn. I could have gone to law school to maybe get some more. Excuse me. Apologize. Better negotiating tactics. Yeah, but truly, it's a job that you learn on the job.

[00:06:43] And part of that is why you saw it in the mailroom, which is again, the lowest rung you are.

[00:06:49] Is it literally the mailroom or is that it? Is that Apple? Oracle.

[00:06:52] No, it is literally the mailroom.

[00:06:55] And you get promoted to dispatch, which means you actually get a car and you can drive around town and deliver scripts to clients or to studios. But no, you were in the mailroom.

[00:07:05] You it's part of it is it's it's it's funny. It's like this whole Hollywood history. You go through the mail. Not that you're breaking any laws, but you want to see contracts.

[00:07:17] You want to see communication between agents and studios or clients. And so before you turn him, before you hand in their Daily Mail, you actually are going through it. And that's that's part of how you learn. And then you try to befriend and find your mentor in one of those agents. And it's divided into departments. So I was very, very Oji. And I always wanted to be in motion picture talent because of my vision of life, was to have my client getting her or his Academy Award and thanking me for on that.

[00:07:52] Yeah, it's about my mother. Right. Right.

[00:07:57] So unfortunately or fortunately, I had such as crazy tunnel vision about motion picture talent. The agency was going through a huge change of the time. Television was actually picking up speed. Actors, film actors were finally getting to start to kind of like transitioned to doing TV. And so I'm like, it's such a period where things were changing.

[00:08:17] That probably took me a little bit longer to get through what I wanted to do. I could have picked an easier route, like jumping on the television or jumping into commercials or something else. And I was like, no, I need professionally trained.

[00:08:32] So, you know, some of it was I remember that, though. And I actually look, I come from an old film family myself.

[00:08:40] My father did documentary filmmaking in the 80s. And I recall thinking, why are they switching over to DTV there? There's also there was a snobbery in my figure attached to it. There was like a minute. And no, she does not do that kind of acting. She is a strictly film actor. Like you should not be seeing her on primetime. She should not do a cameo. God forbid a commercial.

[00:09:02] Well, know everybody has found their cash cow. It really was a classist, kind of like weird.

[00:09:07] And I never knew if it was in my head or not, but.

[00:09:10] Oh, no, no. And this will be weird. The industry fought it as well. But you started to realize the television department was doing packaging and they were starting to make more money than the motion picture town department. You're like, mm hmm. Maybe there is something in this, because if you're packaging its meaning, you're you're representing the showrunner and the producers and the talent. So you are double and triple dipping and that is how agencies become so lucrative. And you know, we had not only this is a horrible representation of sorry if I'm offending Cosby. Right, Bill Cosby, but we had the show, The Cosby Show so we can show runners, the writers.

[00:09:51] And so you can imagine that the cash cow that that was at the same time, at the same time we had. Actors like Kevin Spacey, who is coming from Broadway and starting in film and, you know, these are also horrible examples, I just realized it. Oh, my gosh.

[00:10:09] My background, my my era is nine, really. I do have a lot to me, too. I am bad history.

[00:10:18] It is in my bio as well, because that was the era that I was there. Yeah. I can't believe the two examples I just gave you. Hang on. It was also tons of womanpower. Ashley Judd, Mira Sorvino whistleblower, actually. Oh, good. I see. And can I tell you, these were my clients at a time and they did not say anything. Wow. They didn't tell. So that's a whole other episode.

[00:10:40] I'm sorry, but I know now. And yeah, you're texting them.

[00:10:46] And you know how powerful he is. I heard the horror stories from my friends who worked at Miramax like I knew what was happening there, but my clients weren't saying anything. So unless they tell you. Yeah, I don't know. And then. Sometimes it was kind of like, well, are you it. It was happening to me. And it was happening to them. But none of us really saw what was happening at the time because the threat was and this was for me and for them. If you speak up, you're a woman. You're going to be blackballed and you can say bye to your career.

[00:11:23] Of course, that's that to me as an agent dorm environment, aping everyone calm, keeping the masses like quiet is it's a very delicate dance with a lot of moving parts.

[00:11:33] Know, I was I was told point blank if I wanted to stay in entertainment, keep my mouth shut, if I was going to pursue a lawsuit. I could say goodbye to my career. Yeah. I wasn't ready to walk away. I kept my mouth shut. So how long did you spend in the mailroom before you found your. Did you find her?

[00:11:53] And I did. I did. I'm sorry. I said jump way ahead of the times.

[00:11:56] So, yes, I found a mentor. She was a few years older than me, which was great. We're kind of close in age. She was really into this developing young talent, which ended up being my specialty as well. And we just had a great time. So you go from Traini like mailroom to being an assistant and you're on someone's desk and then you're a junior agent and then you're an agent. But the whole time. Agency world is about bookings, so there's a very short window to how long your client survive. So if they don't pop in six months, you have to let them go. And I was seeing this cycle and I'm like, this is so funny. I would go deliver scripts to one of my childhood crushes, George Clooney. And he was still doing television. Right. He hadn't really made the break the leap yet. And so I had this like young actresses who were breaking through. And then like Kevin and George and these actors who were transitioning. But it was not just a really, really weird period. But what I noticed was like when I would go find someone who I thought was really talented, like someone I went to school with name Will Ferrell, and I brought him in, is like that. That was the first kind of one to sign. And the comedy department told me I was off my rocker and he wasn't funny. I was like, OK. He's the only guy because we'd be left. And here's the other instead. So it was funny.

[00:13:29] Is that really quickly, is that formula? The six month formula. Is that unproven or is it just. OK. Cause I was like I feel like it's malleable. Like I feel like some people took longer to pop.

[00:13:42] As you guys were saying, just seeing it from an outsider point of view, there are people that have had careers in Hollywood that it seems like it took a good six or seven years before it kind of came into fruition to.

[00:13:53] Oh. And this is again, I'm into the developing of town. This is a long road. So the popping is you've got about six months for the clients to pop. They've got a book. You're a booking agency. If they're not booking, they're not making money. You have to let them go or you hip pocket them and you you continue to try to grow. But what I realized I needed to transition into management because I loved the development process. I love taking that raw talent and helping them find that career goal if they wanted. So Jimmy Fallon is a great example. He came to me when I was a manager, fresh off of an open mike in upstate New York. My office manager said, you have to meet this kid. I'm like, okay, send him out. And we did. And we're like, oh, he's adorable. SAT down with him. He knew exactly what he wanted. Like, I want to be on SNL. I love Adam Sandler and I want to be on The Tonight Show. I want to be the next Johnny Carson and I'm not shitting you. And I said, excuse me, I'm not kidding you. And I say this, but he he knew his path. That was rare. People came to me. They one does fascinating stars. And I wouldn't be famous by. But the ones who like new like James Gandolfini, like I know what I like, these guys were serious. It was awesome. Awesome, Felicity. I can't believe how many bad names I'm throwing out, you hear?

[00:15:15] Good. I like it. It's amazing. Who's who. But I feel like I have the Hollywood moment. So you you manage it with my love.

[00:15:22] And I did that from twelve years. It was only the agency for a couple of years. And it was so funny because it had been that pursuit of like what I had to do, had to do, had to do, I had to do it. And then I was there and I was like, I don't like it. Like it wasn't it did not bring me joy.

[00:15:37] When you said that my condo. Yes.

[00:15:40] Did you. When you say management, did you matriculate all the way through becoming like a senior top agent and then go into actual being like these stars managers? Or is there a difference? I think I'm confused about the term.

[00:15:53] That's OK. So it doesn't matter. But there is kind of a ranking. It really goes to like how big your client list is, how many studios or networks are covering as an agent. But again, I only ended up doing two and a half years in the agency world. Then I was a manager for the rest of my career, which is another 10 years. I was in production for a minute and it was too boring and went on.

[00:16:12] No difference between being someone's manager versus their agent.

[00:16:16] So that's the developing of talent, right? I could take somebody raw, a comedian, and I could like working with Jimmy. Right. He had zero credits. He but he was talented. He had a very strong Y. And so we would work on his set for his audition for SNL and we would have him meet all the casting actors in town and get him bit parts so he could have real success. Then you had to submit a real. And he start to create credits and that is developing of talent. Now, Ashley Judd is another great example. She was a young actress coming off of an indie. That she was already getting great at Sundance or. Whatever vessel at the time of recognition. And so then you're transitioning her from independent features into full length features. Right. And two studio features where money is.

[00:17:08] So that transitioning was what I was really loving and being able to take someone as a manager. Listen, I worked for free for years. Right. And then they pay you a commission when they book something. So you have to believe in these people, too, because you're investing years of time and probably not getting paid. So it's it's it's definitely like a different road. But as a manager, you also have the opportunity to be a producer for your clients. So I had some great writers and comedians. Funny, funny, funny women who were awesome writers, who wrote their own roles. So I got to help them, you know, produce projects as well. And so, yeah, it was very creative, super fun, always challenging.

[00:17:54] Then 9/11 happened and. Everything, obviously, the whole world changed. But in this world, everything that was this studio project got put on hold, which means you're not gonna get paid. There's even like client deals where they're put on hold with a with a studio so you can be an actress and get paid to do nothing for a season so no other network can have you. So anyway, all those kind of things went away and reality televisions are to come in and coming from my oji world. I was not on board with reality television. Never were my professionally trained clients. They were like mutts. You want me to do what I like? It's kind of scripted and not scripted. And so. There was a big decision to be made and we were I was watching just the whole climate change and where things were going, and it was a really kind of dark period. And then it got doubly dark for me because my mom became ill and I actually closed my management company to become her caregiver. So this career that I had spent my life, I want to say basically on it stopped abruptly and I had to just completely. Switch gears. I mean, my my brain went from caring for thousands of people to caring for one specific person.

[00:19:21] Yeah, it sounds like the ethos of the confidence crown was taken from your experience, helping people cultivate themselves, though, like when you talked about what you loved most about managing, you know, was helping people realize their dreams and kind of come into that clarity.

[00:19:37] When did you watch it? When you launched the confidence crown?

[00:19:41] We are only two years old a year and a half ago. OK. So I don't think I don't think we're two years old yet. Sorry. That's so funny. I mean, a year and a half ago. And oddly enough, when I think back of history, of who I am, what my background is, I have been doing this my whole life. I have. I was a fixer and a caregiver my whole life. My parents got divorced when I was two. I was always taking care of my mom in in different ways. I was always the adult and so the caregiver part of me and the fixed part of me. From elementary school on, I remember I used I used to call it like taking like wounded birds or something like I could I would fix my friends, I'd fixed my boyfriends.

[00:20:25] I was fixing everyone around me. Yeah.

[00:20:28] And it didn't really click into a few years ago when I started actually working with coaches for the world I'm in now, where I was like, holy crap, I've been doing this my whole life. I just never gave it that title I used. It was called a mentor back then. Right. Yeah. Agent or your manager. I was your mentor. I did. Wasn't your coach know the coach was the acting coach. So it's so funny. The title didn't even make sense to me until a couple of years ago.

[00:20:58] And I was like, oh, crap, I've been doing this for free for, you know, it's time to make some money off of that. So can you kleiman's through like what the like the core tenants of how it's built. You're a coach, but do you have like kind of like a structure to what your company offers your clients or how that all is formed.

[00:21:18] Yeah. So again it came out of a need to help eight. Eight and a half years ago of drug sales, business fell in my lap and I was a huge skeptic and really resistant and was but I needed something because I had gone through this big loss, not just my mom. I've been a caregiver now a second hand from my grandmother. And so I was I was in a dark fog and didn't know what or where to go.

[00:21:46] Obviously, far gone from entertainment. I didn't really have a direction that B.A. doesn't get you anything in the real world. And I actually gone back to school. I was trying a new career in health care when it landed on my lap. And it was amazing timing. I had four months left in my program. I didn't like it. I just lost my grandmother now. And I was actually in panic attacks. And I was like, I can't tell anyone. I just spent forty two thousand dollars going back to school to get this degree. And holy crap. I don't like this. And I had skin issues at the time when my mom got sick. I got adult cystic acne. I got treated by my dermatologist who got rid of it. But then that left me with my plasma, which is a brown, patchy, hormonally charged issue.

[00:22:35] On your skin. It looks like you have dirt sometimes women get when they're pregnant. I didn't have a baby to show for it. It was just a mess of hormones. Yeah, and medications. And when the products were introduced to me in this brand was introduced to me. One of the things she said to me actually two one I could do it as a hobby was like ding, ding, ding, because I'm gonna hate my new career. And to the products are going to work. And I was like, sure, wink, wink. Nothing works. OK. And in three weeks, it's going to change dramatically. A bunch of nurses tackled me at the hospital. What are you doing, what are you doing? And I realized, oh, I've been washing my face of this new stuff and was so bizarre because, again, I didn't know what I was getting into. I just knew that I was seeing some changes. They're seeing changes. Now they want to buy products from me. And I realized, oh. But just keep sharing this stuff. There could be something here, and that was honestly this. That's how this all kind of came about.

[00:23:35] So I started building this business and I would have a business partner and then I have more clients and another business partner. And it was interesting to see people who. Ran with it. And people who would get stuck. And I'm talking about professionally educated women who in their day jobs are mavericks. The minute you put them in charge of their own side business, they are terrified by people's opinions and suggestions and thoughts. And I started to watch them kind of go flat like that light, that spark. They had the reason I wanted to work with and the reason I want to mentor you, because I see the special thing in you. You can do this. They would just kind of go flat and the deer in the headlights. And I'd lose them. So I started kind of keeping notes and trying to figure out like, what was the common denominator? Novenas. These women lacked confidence in themselves. Every limiting belief, every every crazy, tragic, bizarre thing that you were either imprinted with at birth or happened to you on the playground, at school or from some boyfriend or someone important in your life that said to you as you were developing was actually showing up later in life with these women. And I was like, what is going on? Yeah. I, I don't I don't laugh at it cause but I laugh because I'm like I have been through the wringer and I, I'm so used to people telling me no, I came from a career of where you're told No. Every single day. That's just part of business. Why are they getting paralyzed. So. The confidence crown really was created as a way to structure. A path and a habit, a discipline, a way for women to get over it and to realize that they have the qualities, that they are superior. They are worthy. They just have to listen and and, you know, feed their mind, their body and their soul. And that is what they've given up on. And so it's it's interesting. It helps you in business. It helps you in life, helps with your relationships. You're not taking care of yourself. You're not winning. And it's just so many failures in my life gave me a story to be able to adapt and help that person understand that I understood it. And the empathy and the kind of intuitive behavior I have as well. But the empathy is strong. I feel people's pain like again. I had that adult acne. That was rough. Like, I get it. And Malaysia was like a horrible side effect. Like, really, really. The cystic acne is under control. And now I've got this. It was it made me close down on conversations with people. I didn't want to have eye contact with people. I didn't believe in myself. And I wasn't used to that. Mm hmm.

[00:26:46] Is there a down in fields like tight into the confidence crown? Is it. Like part of what the company functions off of? Or is it more of a separation?

[00:26:54] Is it in addition to your ego in addition to it? I just happened to have learned a lot about women's behaviors in particular. There's men too. But women in particular. And what was what was keeping them from succeeding? And that became kind of like this passion of mine. No, you don't have to be in business with me in network marketing side. But, man, if you want to if you want some good products and you want to have a side business, that's really simple to create. I'm here for you.

[00:27:28] But also, I learned how to say that the company from my my British friend. Is it. How do you say Redan infields. Is it. You said it perfectly OK. She says, Doctor, I don't know why we're dying.

[00:27:39] No. Exactly. Now, there is a road around that I think is just.

[00:27:45] Road in a road. There is the high end department store. So Dr. Kathy Fields and Dr. Katie Redan are the creators of Proactiv. These dermatologist have been buddies and friends for 30 years since they went. They were in Stanford together doing their residency, and that's why they created proactive. And then in like 1990, they started to get rid of their shares and sell it off. And they finally completely separated themselves. And they created this legacy brand, which is just their name, brand and fields. And it is really addressing the issues they were seeing in their clients and their patients offices because sorry, their doctors patients and they were seeing what was happening as they were used to treating acne. But the acne user has grown up and now she or he are dealing with some other issues. So this became an anti aging. Brand. And it's been fantastic.

[00:28:43] And it does help all kinds of skin, and I, I don't need to sell it. It sells itself. I mean, it really. Again, my skin has been crazy different. I just turned 50. So I'm like, really, really happy that I found this when I did because it got me over the hump of some crazy aging issues that I wasn't expecting. And. Again, it's a great lucrative income, I mean, it is the background of what I do. I mean, it's I work from home. It enables me to do that and enabled me to pursue starting a podcast, branding the confidence crown, writing a book. I mean, everything I do now is because I did that. And so the great vehicle.

[00:29:28] Absolutely. Well, I come from my great Aunt Delilah was one of the like back in like the fifties was one of the first, you know, believers. And she made millions on network marketing for, like Mary Kay.

[00:29:44] Some of the old Brasi.

[00:29:46] And so and what it enabled her to do, though, because it's kind of hysterically tragic. Her husband was not much. He suffered from alcoholism and things like that and just wasn't much of a producer, a contributor to the household. And so at an age when women weren't able to do much more than allowed more to do than be a secretary. She was making millions of dollars off of doing what women's business is. At the time, people had really undervalued, which is networking with her.

[00:30:18] You know, and yes, she but she made a killing.

[00:30:21] And the story is one of my favorites because it kind of opens up this idea holds true across what you're kind of what you're explaining as well as if you're looking for something to augment, and especially with people who are entrepreneurs, you know, the concept of needing flexible time and still providing for yourself and and perhaps a family. You know, you do need to look towards those businesses or a setups that are slightly different than the corporate nine to five, you know, totally. So it sets up that kind of a paradigm as well. But it is there. There are offshoots to that where you have to be the self driven person. And it sounds like the confidence crowd was built out of like this, people who can't run their own show. You know, right away it's like this. Like what happened there. Where's the disconnect? You're such a powerhouse when you're working for corporate or when you when you've got, like, this mommy or daddy to answer to. But when you become your own boss, suddenly everything kind of fades and your heart goes out the door.

[00:31:15] They get a tough couple of no's side glances from, you know, people close to them. And they freeze. They freak out. And I'm so impressed by your aunt. Like, that is such an awesome story. Again, I was the skeptic, right? I, I am from again, the olds keep saying, oh, gee, world, you go to college, you get a degree, you work in corporate and then you retire. Now the ability to make millions was available as an agent. But not it's not your salary. It is your bonus is your bonus was like triple your salary. Right. So you have the potential to earn a lot, but you also potential to earn zippo.

[00:31:57] And as a manager, when there's no salary and you are simply working off of street commissions, you learn to hustle and you you know that. It's like it's like betting full time. Right? You're like at Vegas and the stakes are high and you're gonna have some years that are great, some years that are horrible and that's just normal. So I think for me, the transition into this world, even though I was again, I keep saying I was a skeptic because I pyramid scheme and all the crazy things that I heard of. And there were a couple of companies who are based here in L.A. that were going there, were having horrible lawsuits. And I was like, really? How is this any different? But you go back to who created this brand and who these people are. And this was a retail brand that was super successful. And they just wanted to reach the masses because at that time there were not.

[00:32:47] And there still aren't enough dermatologists per capita for people, for humans. And the way insurance used to be even more than it is now, which is you have to go to your primary to get the referral to see a DERM. So for them, they were like, we had to just make this easier for people. We're going to do the same things we're doing in our office and we're going to create them for home. And they're entrepreneurial and they love supporting women in business. So it became this very positive environment. I went from negative, Nancy, you know, agency world where no one helps you to being in a world where there's a bunch of women, there's men, too, but a bunch of women who were there cheering you on, helping you out, supporting you, giving you ideas, recommending things. And you're like, where was this when I was growing up? Why didn't they teach us about this in college? I wish I had known about this is the best part. If I had only known about residual income in college, the only people I knew who received residual income were my active clients who refused to pay me on those checks for the gig. But they do not give you the residual income that residual income paid for their houses that paid for their kid's tuition. That's where the money is. So once I understood that that's how this business model works, I was like, oh, my God. Bring it like this. Fantastic. So I do find it interesting that people still have a negative connotation. I do think it's interesting that people don't see it, again, as this flexible opportunity, particularly for a career driven woman who maybe wants to take time out to be at home with their kids or has left that career, has been home as a mom and then isn't feeling like she doesn't know herself anymore. Right. She's been talking about diapers and poop for too long and she's like, can I have an adult conversation? And a lot of it is just community. When you're home and you're taking care of your kids, it's hard to see your girlfriends. You're not getting that time. So this gives you an excuse to get together. So, yeah, I mean, it it it's so funny how it all stacked up.

[00:34:59] Yeah. But for me, the turning point.

[00:35:05] I went through my big education. I knew what I wanted to do. I had my career path and then I start this thing and I realized very early on. That if I'm going to be successful, I've got to learn how to deal with public speaking. And that was my biggest fear. I don't know, speaking. I used to get flop sweat. I would panic. I'm in college. I avoided it like the plague. I made sure it wasn't part of a major. I would never, ever, ever, ever do. I was in a sorority.

[00:35:35] I would never, ever speak in front of that. I mean, nothing. You know, I made films, but I was behind the camera. I did not want to be on the side. And now I'm getting paid to do public speaking for the two biggest powerhouses, Tony Robbins and Negroes EEOC. So I am like, well, circle proof that you can get over your fears. You can absolutely overcome obstacles and have fun learning. I mean, this has been a personal development path with a paycheck. That's really what this business turned out to be for me. I had no idea that I was going to be dealing with this. So do you.

[00:36:17] So when you're when you have these major clients that you're now doing public speaking for, is that under the same kind of umbrella? Is the confidence Croner? Is that like a separate offshoot that just came out from it?

[00:36:28] So that just came out and that's just about to happen. So I was in a master. I'm actually I'm sorry. I'm currently in a mastermind with Brendan Bershad and Dean Gross, IOC and their other partner, Ethan Willis, which I absolutely love. It's been one of the best investments in my coaching career. Mastermind's are fantastic. And I'm really, really into self education because I realized self education is what was happening to me at the agency. Right. I told you I couldn't learn about what I wanted to do in college, but it was listening in on phone calls, reading the emails, watching, watching the posturing of the agents. That's how I learned my job. Right. It's so amazing that that is exactly what I'm doing now.

[00:37:15] And I'm doing it. I'm I'm now the teacher. It's it's it's this weird thing that's happened, so. Last spring, like late April, early May, Dean and his friend Tony Robbins partner together and they released a new program called KBB and it's a blueprint on how to build mastermind's.

[00:37:36] And it's really a big push about self education. And I decided to do it because what was really cool for me was, again, I've been doing all this stuff for free. Right? I've been coaching. I've been teaching, you know, for my redan. I don't pay. My team doesn't pay me to train them. Right. But I've been doing this for years.

[00:37:55] So what KBB taught me was how to actually put together all the steps of the course that I would want to release and launch into the atmosphere. It would tell me how to create a mastermind. It would tell me how to do community, how to form communities. So for me, I saw this as this bonus, like I love a blueprint. Tell me the steps. I'll do it. And that's what this is. And so in August, they started talking about. Wanting ambassadors and people to kind of talk about how the program has helped them create things. And I put my hand up right away. It's like, oh, you definitely I'd love to be an ambassador in L.A.. Like, please, I'd love to have hosts and meet ups and. Oh, yeah. This is this has been an amazing experience for me, because if I can do it, you can do it because at 50, you know, I am great at a bunch of this stuff.

[00:38:55] But the marketing and, you know, elements about, you know, creating funnels and stuff like that stuff takes me a long time. But I was given all the tools and it helped me to launch a couple of online programs. And I was like, well, if I can do it, you can do it. Seriously, this is awesome. And then it became, okay, so now you're going to be auditioning for speakers and trainers because we're growing so fast. There's 20000 of us in our Facebook group. April. Wow. Yeah. And Dean and Tony are being asked to speak about this program all over and their schedules are crazy. So they basically need ambassadors to do it for them. So I put my hand up right away. Yeah, sure. No problem. Then like, okay, there's gonna be audition process. I'm like, OK. So first audition, you put yourself on video and, you know, had a certain time to cover certain part of the topic. Sent it in. OK. And I saw Dean probably a week after I submitted it. We were in Sundance at our mastermind and I kept going up to him, probably made him crazy. He just got married, his wife, same as Lisa.

[00:40:09] So I'm on the other Lisa. Like, don't forget me. Don't forget me. You're gonna go back and you're gonna have to go watch those videos.

[00:40:17] Don't forget me. And by the end of the week, he was like, I got it.

[00:40:21] I will be watching you open a bag. Yeah.

[00:40:25] And I thought too around, too. And then there was another video and you're like, oh, God. Okay, here we go. So it went from six hundred to fifty.

[00:40:37] Applicants and eight of us. I think we're up to eight, eight of us got picked. And we go to boot camp and about it we can have. That's so exciting. Yes. So a national circuit, like a speaking tour. I believe so. We don't know anything. We just know there's a lot of trust we have. Yeah. Actually, we just got dropped homework on Monday night. I have to produce nine videos in the next five days. So after I hang up with you, I'm a little bit.

[00:41:09] Yeah. Tell me to do. Exactly.

[00:41:13] So it is what I want. I, I'm sharing this because not because I got the gig and yes, I'm super stoked and I, I just want the experience. Right. I want to learn from the best. Yeah. But I'm going to go back to if I can do this. You can do this. And that's the kind of coaching and training that I like to do with people, is help them get on stuck and building that confidence from the inside out. Because I can help them with their skin. But if they're still messed up inside and they're not feeling worthy and they're not giving good self care and self-love practice to themselves, they're not going to succeed. And that's across the you know, that's across the board. It doesn't matter, again, if it's career or personal life. So for me, it's just. All right. How can we get you unstuck? Let's figure this out. And I love it because it goes back to that time of developing talent. Right. I can see the light in you. I can see what you're good at. I love to serve. So let me help you. Yeah, that's that's really my message. And I've shared a lot of.

[00:42:23] Wounds and failures and craziness in my podcast. The first season was just my story. And then I started doing interviews in the second season and I'm rotating back and forth in the third season and about, you know, again, sharing my story, things I'm going through, but also interviewing other women business owners and how they got there, how they got over it. Right. How they got over that fear of taking that leap. Yeah. And it's I just find it super rewarding. I'm I'm loving all of it. And I wrote a book.

[00:42:53] I mean, like. Yeah, let's climb into. I'm wondering if your book is called Be Hashtag Strong.

[00:43:00] Her guide to building confidence. And what kind of like what are the core tenants of the book? Because Confidence Building eight is a universe unto itself.

[00:43:10] Like there's so many ways to come at it. Totally. And so I try to cover a bunch of it in the eight chapters. It is a workbook because you need to do the practices. So it's kind of an overview of how I got over things right. We go over some basics about, again, learning like maybe what your issues are or are these limiting beliefs? Are you dealing with some kind of block? Is it not feeling worthy? Like where where where are your issues? When I identify them, there's an assessment at the beginning and then we're gonna go each chapter and I'm going to share some nuggets of things that have helped me overcome certain issues and then make suggestions about ways if this is bother, if this is what's affecting you. Let's go this direction. And then every chapter has a workbook so that they have a worksheets, I should say. They said there's you've got to answer. Right. You've got to be interactive for this to work. But what it should help you do is come out of it feeling like you have a better handle on whatever was holding you back, feeling more confident in pursuing that dream. That vision that you had that you didn't think you could really do. And then hopefully you. You work the book over and over, and so you really get through all those pieces, because I find it to be multileveled in the sense that you think it's just one thing that you're trying to improve about yourself, but it's because you have a few other things going on as well. So it it again, it's more it's an overview. I do dig in deep. I keep, you know, from the daily habits. Right. How to start your day. And so that you're winning. To how to take time out and really practice proper self care. To also learning how to feed your mind with positive messaging. So there's affirmations and there's suggestions about, you know, how to. How to care about how you're feeling and to acknowledge it with the people around you. And.

[00:45:25] I don't know. It just awesome, and I like a work style, I like yeah. I'm a big action item person. I never get to leave any powerful meeting or anything without tasking myself with some way.

[00:45:35] I'm going to implement an action item from it because I think it really serves not just to do something physically about it, but it also serves as an incredible reminder, you know, totally a core tenant that you've kind of learned. So I like the workbook style about it moving forward, like over the next two years, because you have this new horizon kind of sitting on your lap. Do you have goals for what you see happening with the confidence crown or this new endeavor with KBB? Like what? What are your plans for the next three years?

[00:46:05] Such a great question. So the KBB thing obviously came out of nowhere. Again, kind of like the book. Yeah, the pod cast I knew was gonna do. I just took my time getting it done. I. You know, it's gonna be sporadic. I'm not I'm not a full time hire in any way, shape or form, it's going to be like wherever they need us.

[00:46:23] We just gotta get shipped out. So I'm still gonna be doing everything else I'm doing here. So developing more coaching programs, probably doing more workshops and mastermind's, because it really is the best way for me to conquer more people and probably more in a webinar format, because that way I can keep costs down for people not renting space and we can just make it away again for people to get the tools that they need to succeed from there. Getting that stage time will probably. Mike makes me want to tweak a few of these things. And I could say something different to you in six months. But I do know in a perfect world, there are gonna be there's gonna be more of logging. I have a IJI TV series that I'm about to launch. So there's gonna be more video content and ways to hopefully interact better with everyone. And then. In the perfect world, I'm absolutely, positively hooked on Reese Witherspoon's shine on. And I would like to create something very similar to that. It was incredible, powerful interviews with important women up and coming and successful already. And it's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend it. But I am that that clicked for me as something that made sense for where I want to take this.

[00:47:57] Practice and where I want to take my story of seeing other women, and they're they've been empowered, so that would kind of be the perfect world. More travel, more, more, more goodness. Just, you know, giving back as much as possible. I love I love to be able to help others.

[00:48:18] Yeah.

[00:48:18] When you were covering it on a lot of platforms, if someone walked up to you tomorrow and said, listen, I spent a good decade in the talent agency industry and managing talent in Hollywood, and I'm turning now into kind of my own development of a branded company where I'm going to help people. Essentially, you walked up to you. Yeah, I would. What are the three pieces of advice you would give her starting out this journey?

[00:48:46] It's so interesting because the industry has changed so much. So I feel like I almost can't speak about it. It's all digital now, right? It's all virtual. You barely even go in for an audition anymore, which I found baffling. So I would probably cost. What would it. Talk to me some about. I think I'd have to remind myself about being open to change and understanding that the medium is changing and that I need to be more flexible. And to, you know, not say no to the reality shows that I now enjoy. And really, I guess, get with the times because it's going to keep changing. And so if you're gonna be successful, you have to be adaptable. And if that means learning other elements, then you've got to keep that self education happening. Or hire the right people to do that for you. So, yeah, I it's it's it's a different medium now. I that's a that's a great question. I'm not sure how I'd look at myself and be like, do not make that same mistake and not be open to trying.

[00:49:52] And what about forming your business, the confidence crown. What advice would you give someone kind of starting out like doing the self branded moment, like core tenants that helped you do that?

[00:50:04] Yeah. So, again, a leap of faith. I think ignorance is bliss. I think the hardest part, I think, in all of us has been stuffing. Finding the right team of people to help you pursue your goals. When you're branding a product and a lifestyle and this whole thing and I went through the ringer this past year and a half with different assistance veejays, including having a horrific experience with identity theft from my personal assistant. So. Oh, yeah.

[00:50:37] Yeah. The V.A. from the V.A. angle. The virtual assistant angle.

[00:50:41] This was actually truly personal. Was in my house. Wow. That. Yeah, it was bad. Yeah. So. So choosing the right people. Staffing right. Choosing the right people. Really vetting people. Really having your S.O.P as your systems of operation setup prior.

[00:51:01] Because for you to grow and scale quickly, you need to basically duplicate yourself. And if all you're doing is spending time training those people to understand you, you're wasting time. So it's always about income producing activity here. The talent. Right. You're the creative part of this. So you again, you have to know when where your limitations are and when you need to hire out for certain things. And learning to delegate was probably the hardest thing I've ever learned or had to had to learn because. As a business owner in the past and as an agent, I've always been, you know, I have to do it all or it doesn't get done right. I mean, I always had assistance, but you always like hitting your head. Like, why did I give them that? They still made a mistake or even with the A's, like I get you know, there's always typos and there's there's it's really hard to find quality people to work with you. And if you have your escapee's and you have great vetting conversations and actually add a third party that like quit having the emotional connection and bring in someone else to help you with the vetting part. I think it really helps because, you know, I might see someone again see qualities in them, but I need someone who can hard core ask them, X, Y and Z about their abilities, because I might give someone a chance to show me versus actually seeing somebody who's already ready to go. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:52:33] So I've got RMI and be open to change.

[00:52:36] If you're going to be successful, you have to be able to adapt, change and adapt and then finding the right staffing, setting up your S.O.P and learning how to duplicate yourself.

[00:52:47] If you doing that self education, part of it is you're again, you got to be adaptable and you got to be constantly learning about new things or again, knowing those limitations and getting those right people in to help you like funnels and adds. And, you know, if you didn't have a marketing background, don't try to tackle every step of it. If that's not your world already, right? Absolutely. Outdoors, super time consuming. Absolutely.

[00:53:15] We are all out of time.

[00:53:17] But I want to say thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me, albeit over Zoome online today. It's a rainy, rainy day in SoCal.

[00:53:25] I'm in San Diego. You're in Los Angeles right now, I guess. Yes. So I really am thankful that you were able to take the time out of your busy schedule. And we will circle back around because I can't wait to find out what happens with the mastermind development piece speaking circuit. And I have a feeling we will be seeing you a lot. And I just want to say thanks so much for taking the time today. For anyone who wants to contact you or find out what you're doing, what is the best route for people to do that?

[00:53:50] Find me on Instagram at the confidence crown and you can find everything else about me there because it's great.

[00:53:57] Yeah, it sounds fantastic.

[00:53:59] Thank you. I really appreciate this has been wonderful.

[00:54:02] Absolutely. For everyone listening. Thank you for giving us your time. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slaínte.

View Details

Interview with Michelle May: Founder & President of Seva Foods (Sevafoods.com) Seva Foods produces Space Ice Kream, the world’s first non-dairy, freeze-dried ice cream and Coconut Jerky, a plant-based jerky that appeals to vegans and meat-eaters alike. Seva Foods hopes to help improve the lives of individuals and the health of the planet through the way we eat.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it. Histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company Web site. Wild Ducks agency. That's w i. L. D e. Dot Agency or my personal Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Michelle May. Michelle is the founder and president of Sabra Foods and Benjy's canine cuisine. Welcome, Michelle. Hi. Hi.

[00:01:44] I'm so glad to have you on the show for everyone listening. I'm going to read a brief bio on Michelle.

[00:01:50] But before I do that, a roadmap for today's podcast will follow the same trajectory that all from these series do. We'll first look at Michelle's academic background and early professional life. Then we will unpack SABR foods and we'll get into some of the logistics. The who, what, when, where, how, why funding all that stuff and then will come into the kind of the ethics and the philosophy behind it. And then some of the other particulars that accompany it. And then we'll look at goals that Michelle may have for the next three years. We're begging SABR and Benjy's Koening cuisine, namely scaling expansion, branding and goal making. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice that Michelle may have with those who are looking to either get involved in one of four industries or kind of mirror what she's done with her professional life. So a quick file on Michelle with a lifelong love for food. Michelle is passionate about helping improve the lives of individuals and the health of the planet through the way we eat. She's a graduate of culinary nutrition programs at Matthew Kenney Culinary and is also certified in plant based nutrition through Cornell University. Having worked for over a decade in tech as a web developer and graphic designer, Michelle is transitioned to the wellness industry in 2015. Prior to founding Sabr Foods in 2017, she was a recipe developer and provided community cooking classes, nutrition workshops and private chef services. In addition to being a nutrition geek and plant based chefs, Michelle is also a longtime yoga animal rights activist Dog Mom Vegan, community organizer and founder of Benjy's Canine Cuisine.

[00:03:30] And I can't wait to kind of I'm going to crawl through all of that with you, Michelle, because it says, I love. We have so much in common as people who listen to my podcast. Now, I'm an avid animal activist, animal rights activist and proud Vegan. And so I really I'm really excited to unpack everything.

[00:03:48] But before we get into your current endeavors, will you drop us into your academic background and professional life following that?

[00:03:54] For sure. So I've never really followed a straight trajectory. I actually went to school for art history and Russian ice, OK?

[00:04:06] And those were things that I was interested in.

[00:04:09] But I had also happened in Web design while I was in school. I never took any courses on it, but I kind of just taught myself through Google and YouTube and started. And so I transitioned into a career. I started doing websites for small businesses primarily and became kind of a one stop shop. Most small businesses need some someone who can create something from start to finish. So it helped you some logo design and marketing and, you know, all of their tech stuff set up. And I did that for about 15 years.

[00:04:50] Wow. OK. So did you get your degree in art history in Russian or did you get. I ended up it's you know, I got really into the web design and development.

[00:05:00] And actually, I didn't finish. I was just. I did I wasn't going to be used that degree and was so busy immediately. This was gosh, this was like 2004, 2005.

[00:05:14] And so the heyday for Web site development for a lot of people that were doing it.

[00:05:19] And so I just I started I hit the ground running doing that. And then there's the art history. And I said, I think I'm only about a credit away from my B.A.. I've never really had time or really wanted to look back. So I was doing the web design and the development and I really enjoyed it. I loved the freedom it gave me in terms of where and when I could work. I love, love, love my dogs and being with them. And so I'd say, well, you know, they're one of the driving forces of that. Her choice was just to be able to work from home and be good like dogs and be outside during the day and and do all those sorts of things. But I never was really passionate enough to grow that company to where it needed to be. You know, I started to realize as I got a decade in, you know, that I needed to really scale it. This was going to be my my long term career, you know, hiring other people and getting bigger accounts. And for whatever reason, I could never really motivate myself to do that. Looking back, I'm super grateful that I developed those skills and that I'm able to do graphic design and web development. And obviously, it's been really helpful in my current path. But. It's interesting that I was never able to really get myself to grow that business because it just wasn't something I was inherently passionate about. For the sake of itself, you know what I mean? Absolutely. So I was working in and really had a good career at that. But in 2015, a series of events had led me to decide that I needed to actually move out of that out of that career path.

[00:06:54] And then so did launching. Well, did.

[00:06:58] Which one came first savors or Benjy's canine cuisine?

[00:07:03] Well, so in 2014, I was in a horrible car accident and it hit me that my car was stopped and one of my dogs was killed. His name is Benji. It's really frightening to talk about five years later.

[00:07:21] But when he died and I think everyone experiences the loss of some either really close to it just made me realize me, evaluate everything.

[00:07:31] You know, I just I realized how short life was. And I wasn't really happy and thriving in my job. And I decided I wanted to do something that I was passionate about. And so I love food. I love dogs.

[00:07:46] And so the intersection of that is certainly my happy place. And then he was a rescue. He was such a pig. I mean, he really just so much I can't imagine it. A better testament to have a dog food company and after him.

[00:08:01] And also the realization that what I was providing for my own dogs was really a necessity because I couldn't do, you know, I literally could not get that anywhere else if I didn't feel like cooking for myself. And I wanted to go down to a restaurant or a grocery store, I can relatively easily find something that met all my standards to eat for myself. That's not the case for dogs. And so I decided at that time that I want to start working on dog food that was close to what I was providing for my own animals.

[00:08:30] Absolutely. So the development of I mean, as a startup, it's daunting. Anytime you get into food related startups, I my head kind of starts to swim because a startup and, you know, from the get go with a piece of paper is difficult enough.

[00:08:44] But you add in things like just all of the production aspects and the different materials and things of that nature.

[00:08:53] I just feels like it would be very difficult to get off the ground without having, like, a really serious seed capital. Did you have any funding? Did you bootstrap? Well, let's start with Ben. So since we're talking about Benjy's canine cuisine, did you have any seed capital when you started doing that?

[00:09:11] Very, very little. My mother in law provided a couple of thousand dollars for me to get my first freeze dryer and get my business license and all those sort of beginning things. And really just did it on a very minimal budget.

[00:09:31] I'd say the most challenging thing about that whole project was I forgive the pun, but I really kind of did, you know, bite off more than I could chew. I mean, I handled it. But I think I made things much harder for myself.

[00:09:43] I needed to be developing a complete dog food that doesn't that doesn't have any artificial synthetic nutrients is probably the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, especially because I don't have a dog nutrition background. And so, you know, that was what took up the bulk of the time in development was and I don't think that's ever been done. I don't think anyone is ever commercially produced any companion animal food that doesn't rely heavily on the synthetic nutrients. And so that in conjunction with, you know, as you said, trying to do anything in the food startup world is always gonna be really challenging. The most challenging aspect of Benjy's is an aspect that still is challenging for me with SABR. And that's the Freeze-Dried component. It was much more challenging with with Benjy's with the first the first product, because I was trying to create enough food to feed a dog, all of their nutrients, these tiny little freeze dryers that I have. So ultimately, I put Benjy's on hold in 2017 for that reason because it was going to be really challenging to scale without a co packing partner. And I wasn't able to find that partner at that time. And I'm a little bit of funding to launch SABR, which definitely came out of Benjy's. You know, I had these freeze dryers. I had finished culinary school. I had learned how to do really amazing things in culinary school, including making plant based ice cream. And I had grown up in Texas going to the Johnson Space Center. Always love food. So I was the most excited about the end of the day to get the gift shop and I'd get the astronaut ice cream. And so I have these freezers that I was getting pretty prototypes for Benjy's and but also kind of playing around with other things to see what would happen. And the feedback I got from my close circle of family friends on the ice cream was what really gave me the encouragement and motivation to launch SABR, which I did in August 2017.

[00:11:47] So can you walk us through the nuts and bolts? Did you found it alone? You took a small amount of investment and tell us how it's based. Is it e commerce? Is it strictly online?

[00:11:58] Are you also in places? How does the whole thing look?

[00:12:02] Well, I would say it's about 50 50, maybe, maybe 60 40 with 60 percent being online and 40 percent being in brick and mortars. You know, one of the great things about today for anyone that's interested in in selling products, especially niche products, is that you have the whole world as your potential customer base. And so Amazon has been a big channel for us from almost the very beginning. For that reason, just because they have so many eye balls on there, that even if you have sort of a niche, newer product like mine, I was all I was very surprised by how many sales we got from the very beginning, even before I started really utilizing the advertising. So we do quite a bit on Amazon. I also launched with a a WordPress site, e-commerce site, which I liked because anyone that knows Web design knows that with commerce and WordPress has a lot of functionality that you can build into it, but ultimately decided to move the site over your Shopify best business decisions that I've made. It definitely going a big boost in terms of organic traffic. I believe that's because the connection with Google and Google servers, it just seemed like my site visits went up three fold as soon as I moved to Shopify. So I didn't realize that I had enabled international international shipping when I started that shop by site. I just didn't realize it was any bold. And so I immediately started getting purchases from Australia. A lot of purchases from Australia, actually. They follow all these places. So that's been really cool, too, just to see. I don't do any advertising currently. And so to see these people from all over the world finding my products and paying a lot to ship them has been really cool as well.

[00:13:54] So it's funny you mention that because any new Hillstrand from physical training, you know, any type of new like band that you're going to constrict a muscle with for growth or anything like that across that, two diets and new trends.

[00:14:07] I mean, I first heard about the RA movement and when fasting started getting picked up from all of my Aussie friends, they all contact me first. They do have this like avant garde health fitness trend. So it's not shocking, but it's funny that you had that experience by accidentally not employing the international.

[00:14:24] Sounds like a happy problem because maybe you wouldn't have in the beginning and therefore not really known that there was this audience that would pay so much.

[00:14:32] So when you do brick and mortar you, how how did this how does it differ from when you sell online?

[00:14:39] Well, you know, it's definitely a to be honest, I really enjoy the direct to consumer better. I do feel like it. I mean, from a from a founders' point of view, from a creative point of view, it gives me a better sense of who my customers are. Obviously, the margins are better as well, because you're not selling it for you, selling it for a bit more than you want when you're selling it to wholesalers and selling it. But I also I think that both are good. I think they both will be valuable. I think a lot of people like to say, oh, distribution is dying. You know, traditional retail is dying. I would say that it's important not to put all of your focus on traditional retail, especially as a younger, leaner company. It's really expensive to get into places like Whole Foods. That's why we're not in there yet. Yeah. It's just not a priority of mine, because the direct to consumer approach is is a lot more manageable. I think for smaller producers like myself, once I start, once I scale, which I'm planning on doing, I'm working on right now and planning on really launching early next year with our with our co packer and really ramping up our volumes. I think we'll be working with a lot more wholesale customers. Right now, we're in about 60 stores nationwide. Mostly smaller independent stores, a lot of Vegan stores, obviously natural food stores. And then some of our our bigger customers here on the West Coast are air one. And then Jimbo's here in San Diego. But for it's been primarily smaller customers with our wholesale channel. And then I am available online through a couple of specialty Vegan retailers. Milk guys who are really great have just a bazillion different Vegan products, a really fun website to look at our partners that we've really enjoyed working with.

[00:16:29] Do you? So let's get into for our audience listening like.

[00:16:33] So can you describe the products that you have and the and the inception of how they came to be like the ethos of you have? It's a plant based site. Can you kind of give everyone listening an idea of what SABR Foods offers?

[00:16:47] Yes. So we are the world's first and only manufacturer of dairy free, freeze dried ice cream. As I spoke about a little bit a few moments ago, astronaut ice cream, which is just a dairy based, you know, freeze dried ice cream product that was developed in the 60s for the Apollo missions and never actually went up into space. But that's why it was created. And now it has kind of a cult following.

[00:17:16] The ingredients are really terrible. They're just way the worst is really, really unhealthy.

[00:17:23] Gradients, artificial colors, artificial flavors, whey corn stir up just things that you wouldn't want to eat on a regular basis. And so I created space ice cream to emulate the the texture and the the all the great things about astronaut ice cream and all freeze dried foods. But I wanted something that obviously had an ingredient panel that is in alignment with the way that I eat. The really great thing about restrike foods. And the reason I think that we're going to start seeing a lot more of it in our in our food just on a day to day basis is because it's one of the best ways to preserve food. Unlike conventional methods of preserving food, freeze drying retained up to ninety five percent of nutrients, which I think makes it a really valuable way of feeding people, especially, you know, when you're traveling or even, you know, going to space. I do hope to Cruz's position say that to be a pioneer in the space tourism industry, I think that our products are ideal for space. I think that the products that are going to be in space are going to be mostly based on all plant based. And so I think that we have a great opportunity there and also freeze dry and make things really lightweight. So when you remove all the water, you remove at least a third of the weight. And so it makes things more portable. So the space ice cream are these little cashew coconut milk based nuggets. It's probably want to explain to people. I say it's kind of like a meringue in terms of texture. But then once it starts to melt in your mouth, you're like, oh, ice cream. So it's a really interesting experience. And, you know, most people are a little bit confused at first. But once once it starts to break down and it has that very familiar ice cream flavor, right now we have strawberry and vanilla. And obviously we want to expand that range out as we scale with chocolate. And there's just sky's the limit. There's so many different flavors that we'd like to do our other. The bright side of the spectrum, it's coconut jerky. So we are the only manufacturers of organic coconut jerky in the United States. It is it's a really simple snack, but one that I think most people seem to really enjoy. I know that jerky in particular has really become a popular snack. This will get busier and they don't want to eat meat, chips or fried things. That's something that's really easy to take on the go. We use the same young coconuts that I think most people are familiar with the water. We take the meat out and then marinate it, dehydrate it. And then it's very similar to most conventional jerky use that people have had. I've even had long term bigos and vegetarians be a little off put by it because it's it's so similar. I mean, when I'm touching it, it's it's crazy how much it feels like skin, like flesh. So I think that coconut jerky. The other thing that I really like about it, I think both products have the potential to be mainstream products. I'm not really interested in creating products for vegans specifically. I know vegans because I'm one of them and we find our products. I really want to have a big effect on our food system. So I'm looking to create apps that appeal to, you know, not only begins with the other 300 million Americans and globally as well.

[00:20:47] Yeah. And I think that, you know, the advertising community and the economic and ecological world is behind you on that one.

[00:20:56] This shift. I mean, the obvious shift with a friend of mine, his Vegan the other day had something on saying Vegan or a plant based depending on who you vote for. And it's like this idea that, you know, the idea behind not saying things are Vegan is that it just got a really negative connotation for a great deal of people. And so everything I have so many people say, what's the difference between plant based and Vegan Signa? Huh? The same thing. Not neither one is more healthy or not, you know, then then you can still have preservatives. I always try to tell people like Vegan just they were talking about ingredients. It's not it's not necessarily healthy. Everyone can still get fat and horrible. You know, it's like we all still have those horrible elements at our disposal.

[00:21:39] So the freeze dried ice cream. My brain, like, I start to get imaginative with things that we haven't freeze dried yet. When you said that it's retaining over 90 percent of its nutritional value. Have you ever thought about expanding into other areas? Are you going to keep it tight with your main core items that you're offering right now?

[00:22:00] No, I definitely want to expand. I have lots and lots of snack ideas. I spent quite a bit of time in my kitchen just recreationally. I really love being in the kitchen and always have. And for me, it's a place that I feel relaxed in and that I love to get that. That's definitely where I express the bulk of my creativity is in the kitchen. And so there's so many other products I want to bring to market. And it's really important for me to bring VegFest to market as well. And I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know if Benjy's will merge with Save at some point or become the world's first human and dog food company. Would you be pretty cool? I'm always going to have 100 percent human great ingredients with any any dog products that I create. That would be a possibility or if I will not launch Benjy's separately. But it's really important to me to create something in the dog food space as well, just because I feel like it's so needed.

[00:22:54] Absolutely. Well, that's what's shocking for me, is when you talk about dog food and you talk about, you know, freeze dried ice cream and even like the coconut jerky I always go to with my and I've you know, I've educated myself for the past decade and a half, but I always think of a synthetic ingredients for those those those three main categories.

[00:23:14] I'm always I I'm left with the assumption that you simply cannot make those items without that. So I steer clear of them. And I'm wondering how you. Was it just a creative endeavor? Was it research? How did you come up with being able to make these products without synthetic ingredients?

[00:23:31] Well, the reliance on synthetic ingredients is really just a reflection on on people trying to save money, lot out of necessity, because it's not possible. It's just way, way cheaper. And that's definitely been a huge challenge for me. With save my primary ingredients or our organic cashews, coconut, organic maples or up like, those are three of the most expensive food items on the planet. And until I really scale, I'm not going to see a huge drastic decrease in my Coggs, which is going to allow me to price my products in a way that is more in alignment with the way that I feel about food and accessibility. You know, I want to create products that everyone can enjoy and I want to get my price points down, which is why I do need to scale the feeling weighted. But I don't see the pattern that we've seen and most produced food and most processed foods. The reliance on synthetics is really just because people are trying to save money. It's and it's just a convenience. It's not because it's not possible with the ice cream, it's five or six ingredients depending on the flavor. And that's all that you need. You don't eat anything else. You know, I have a bunch of fillers in there, and I could save money by using cheaper sweeteners. But then it wouldn't be the product that I want it to be. It wouldn't be something that I would eat. Same thing with pet food. Pet food is a bit more complicated. Just because I'm not a dog. So I'm not as familiar with the nutritional needs as I am when I'm formulating for humans. But dogs as well, dogs have like all animals that we have ingredient we have I'm sorry, we have nutrient requirements on ingredient requirements. So as long as we're getting those nutrients, it doesn't really matter where they come from. But it's much easier, especially in the pet food industry where it's all about saving a buck. Unfortunately, even the most high end foods are just made. Yes, audience. And definitely not to throw shade at any of the Vegan cable companies because I love them and I'm so grateful for what they're doing. I'm just not comfortable feeding my talks kibble every day. And I don't think anyone should be. Yeah. That any people where they're at. Is everyone going to spend, you know, three or four hours a week home cooking for the dogs like I do? Probably not. And they shouldn't have to. I enjoy it. I love doing it. But if you don't like doing it, shouldn't have to do it or if you don't feel guilty about it. You know, and so the cool thing about a formula like that, like Benjy's, is that it's the best of both worlds because it's convenient. It's dry. You can store it in her pantry. You can travel with it. It's lightweight, but then it's real food, you know. And so and I also really than I've toyed with the idea of maybe even doing like a fresh dog food company, like you see so many of them at the meat based ones now, you know, basically meal delivery for dogs. Mm hmm. Oh, I struggle with the waste in terms of packaging around something like that. But I mean, it's something that I think I don't know. I mean, it's something that I think at some point we have to start eating dogs, real food, and and we have to figure out a way to do it in a way that's that's convenient. Easy for people saying eat those behind SABR. You know, it's like if you're starving. I know the way that I am in the past. If I'm starving, I'm going to eat whatever's around. I just want to eat. And so having foods like save that travel with you, if you're in the middle of a food desert or in the middle of an actual desert, there's just nothing around that you can eat. These are foods that will satiate you, that provide your nutrients, that will take away the hungriness so that you can focus on what you're doing in between meals, which I think is something that's also needed.

[00:27:23] Absolutely. I agree. I wonder with your company, I talked to you a bit before.

[00:27:28] Off the record, I feel like sometimes some of these companies, or particularly yours do.

[00:27:35] How did you approach the education aspect of it? You know, there's a lot of like explaining to people like we were talking about the synthetic ingredients, you know, how that's usually for cost savings and what it can do to you health wise. You know, people's auto immune. Are the first people that always bring up synthetic ingredients with me because they have an incredible turnaround when they removed diets filled with synthetic ingredients. And it's because auto means I'm on the rise. There's a lot of these, you know, these people in these communities really investigating.

[00:28:05] But how did you approach and how do you currently approach, like the educational aspect that would seem like it would accompany, you know, your representation and say that?

[00:28:15] Well, you know, it's a fine line because you only have people's attention for so long. And so that was something that was particularly relevant when I was designing the packaging. You know, it's like, OK, how much stuff.

[00:28:26] I get. Yeah. Right. How much information are.

[00:28:30] Because if you call outs, you know. And so I really did in our packaging, really try to make it clean while still obviously educating people about all the benefits. I think one thing that that people get without really needing to explain to them is that when they turn over the bag and there's just a few ingredients and they actually know what they all mean, that that doesn't take any explaining. People understand. That means that it's real food and that their body is going to recognize it as such. And I think people, regardless of where they are in their health journey, everybody knows that. Everybody knows that real food is always going to be beneficial. I'd say the biggest you know, the biggest education around our foods because they are plant based would be about plant based foods and about how great they can be for everybody. And I feel like so much of that work is being done for us recently with documentaries like what the hell? Well, now. Everybody starting to get so interested in a plant based diet. And, you know, what I'm seeing is not droves of people going vegan, which would be amazing, but still really great as I'm seeing so many people that are just maybe they're not ready to make that 100 percent commitment and call this self begins. But they're really interested in infusing as much plant based food into their diet as possible. And they're interested in not only doing it with plenty of salads and juices and smoothies and things like that, but pop looks like save a creates that are fun and tasty and and accessible so that they don't have to think too hard about it. I think most people want to do the right thing. It just has to be simple for them. And so, I mean, so much about, you know, obviously the information is there. People can get as deep into sabr as they want to. And we have so much information out of our products on the Web site. But I think the most important thing for most people to understand and take away that they can enjoy eating and still feel really good about it.

[00:30:30] Absolutely.

[00:30:31] And I think that and you're right in that there is a lot of educating happening documentaries like you're mentioning what the health conspiracy, those types of things, like really drawing the full circle about, you know, it's the health, it's the environment, it's the future of the planet.

[00:30:46] It's it's a bunch of other things. You know, it's. And I think that that's where the term veganism put a lot of people feel like it's a political platform and it's the diet of being plant based and things like that. It ties into, you know, this the trickle down of I truly believe that good systems are good, usually all the way through. And if something's healthy for you, it's going to be better for the environment. It's going to be better for your dog. You know, it's all of these things. And we're all systems, you know, in disjointing. Those are treating something stratified. Just doesn't work out.

[00:31:15] I agree with that. See, we talked a little. You talked about scaling and things like that as far as goals. Do you have like a three year plan as far as what you see with scaling or product expansion or anything else on the horizon?

[00:31:29] Yes, for sure. I mean I mean, even sooner than three years, like as I was saying earlier, early next year, we hope to move our production out of our own kitchen and begin working with our co packer, which we're getting ready to do. Now, the CO packer has just been allow us to create so much more volume than we do now. And I'm unfortunate because of the nature of my products. I don't have to produce all year. And actually it's beneficial for me to produce seasonally when my ingredients are the least expensive. And so we're going to be moving to that co pocker producing bigger volumes. And I'm really excited about not being in the production business anymore and just focusing on the marketing and selling, which is the part that I'm good at. But I want to be doing absolutely. And then I just I really within the next year, just want to expand to as many channels as possible, not only those bigger big box retailers and bigger grocers that we spoke about, but also there's so many more channels that we could be on. I mean, obviously, the schools and universities and hospitals are a great market for us because our products are so healthy and because they do have a lot of appeal with with young people as well. I do want to be working with NASA or Space X or so. Cool.

[00:32:47] Who can say that? Who can say they're developing something that's going to go into space? I want to do that as I fantastic my dream.

[00:32:53] That's my dream partner. And so starting to look more into that. I actually had the opportunity to demo some ice cream a few months ago, a launch party for the space, the ISIS, the International Space Station. And so that was really fun. And I look forward to having more opportunities to partner with with NASA and with companies like that, because I really do feel like that's the future and it's going to be here really soon.

[00:33:22] Yeah. Save it now. Space. Yeah.

[00:33:26] And then just to expand globally with SABR obviously is a. My mind, I think that there's we've seen just little hints of it, but I know that our products will do really well, particularly in Asia, Japan. So I'd love to be able to tap into those markets. And then I don't know if it's going to happen the next three years, but certainly sometime very soon to be able to to officially launch Benjy's as well and be able to. My dream with Benjy's is to not only have Benjy's Inc, which is going to be a corporate entity that's doing what I call for profit activism in creating these great products that are good for all animals on the planet. But then eventually my dream is to launch Benjy's foundation and to be able to facilitate international dog rescue.

[00:34:15] And then it's an interesting tie into the Asian markets, you know, who have, you know, some really big issues with animal protection and rights and things like that of being a good contrast, I think, and a good way to go about it, having that buddy relationship between the two companies.

[00:34:31] So you it's you. It sounds like you've gotten like a really tidy, like fast and hard history and degree and, you know, your startups and how to go and how to grow and do things like that. If you were advising someone tomorrow who was going to start up a like non synthetic ingredient, plant based foods start up one of the top three pieces of advice you think would be most useful for them to have out the gate.

[00:34:58] Well, immersing yourself in the community as much as possible, that's going to be different for everyone, right? It's going to have where you live, what your time looks like. So that can be as simple as joining groups on Facebook. You know, I love being a part of a different industry type groups on Facebook. So I there's a there's a couple of groups that are just focus on on Vegan professionals and and begins running big companies and things like that. So that kind of community, I'm just in terms of networking and seeing what other people are doing, getting inspired is really great. Obviously, if you had the opportunity to have direct involvement with people in similar industries as you locally. That's really great, too. Mentorship is something that we hope strive for and look for. And even if that's not accessible to you, just reaching out to people that that your you want to emulate, you know, and and just trying to make connections with people that have done or are doing things that you're interested in can be really helpful. And almost as good as that is, is listening to interviews on podcasts like yours. I can't tell you how much I've learned so much that I've learned listening to podcasts that focus on on Vegan industry, because there's a lot actually a lot on the Vegan food industry. But in all industries, I think there's just so much available on podcasts. So I think listening as much as you can and just taking in all that free information, I think is one of the one of the best resources we have out there. And let's see. And then the third would be make sure that whatever you're doing, you're extremely, extremely passionate about and that you would do it for free because you're most likely going to be chokey. No, I think it's important because it's there's so many reasons to quit and there's some good reasons to stop. And people are going to tell, you know, a thousand times. And so there has to be some really deep fire that is under all of that. Otherwise, it is really easy to burn out. I feel like when things get tough because the life of an entrepreneur isn't easy and it can often feel like you're on a rollercoaster from day to day even. And so there has to be a deep love and a deep commitment, I think, to really be successful, because it's not only about so much of it, it's just about being in the right place at the right time and having the right connections. But the tenacity is also just as equally important. And I think that the only way that you can that you can sustain the level of tenacity that's required to build a business from the ground up is to not be able to do anything else.

[00:37:38] And that's like passion. Yeah.

[00:37:40] So I've got immerse yourself in the community, find mentorship and reaching out to people and then listen to as much free information, interviews, podcasts that you can and make sure that you're passionate about it.

[00:37:54] Those are awesome. I like those three pieces. Sabr foods scum scv a f o o d. S dot com. Is that where everyone can find you?

[00:38:03] That's all social across all social channels as well. Yes.

[00:38:08] Awesome. We are out of time, Michel, but I just wanted to say thank you so much. We're coming up on a Thanksgiving holiday. And I really appreciate. I know you're busy, everyone.

[00:38:17] Our producer is and every entrepreneur around the holidays is busy. Times a million. And so I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today about saving foods and Benjy's Koening cuisine and your story with. Both of us. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks. And for everyone listening, thank you for taking the time and hearing us today.

[00:38:38] And until we speak again, remember to always bet on yourself.

View Details

Interview with Flossie Hall: Founder of AMSE, the Association of Military Spouse Entrepreneurs (amse.co). AMSE connects MilSpouse influencers and freelancers with organizations who want to make an impact with their products and services in the military community.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it. Histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company Web site. Wild Ducks agency. That's w i. L. D e. Dot Agency or my personal Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I'm sitting down with Flossie Hall.

[00:01:35] Flossie is the co-founder of AMCC, the Association of Military Spouse Entrepreneurs, which is located at HMS Echo online, as well as the founder of Time for Table, a healthy recipe book and guide for Health. You can read more about Flossie on her personal Web site. That is Flossie f l o. S s i e hall h a l l dot com. Welcome, Flossie.

[00:02:01] Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[00:02:03] I'm excited to kind of climb through all of your endeavors as well. The military spouse and active duty kingdom is is so fascinating in the world of entrepreneurship.

[00:02:11] It's really taking off. And the organization AMC that you developed the association is. It sounds fascinating for everyone listening. I'm going to read a quick bio on Flossie. But first, I'm going to give you a roadmap of today's podcast. It follows the same trajectory as all of the podcasts in this series. We are first going to cover Flossie's academic background and early professional life. Then we'll dove into unpacking AMCC. Time for Table and a lot of her other endeavors and ventures. And the Flossie's had over the past her past professional career as well as currently. And then we'll turn our attention towards goals that Flossie has for the next three years. In all of her projects and endeavors regarding scaling expansion, pivoting, all of that will wrap everything up with advice that flossing may have. For those of you looking to get involved with current projects and associations that she's built or perhaps mirror some of her particular maneuvers. A quick bio on Flossie. Flossie is an accomplished entrepreneur specializing in e-commerce, marketing strategy, business development, growth of operations and sales.

[00:03:14] She generated over seven figures revenue revenues within the first year of launching her meal prep and delivery company Healthy MoMA in 2015. She went on to sell over five hundred thousand meals, create over one hundred military spouse jobs, donate over 10000 meals to homeless veterans and mentor numerous individuals. Flossie is now known in her role for the National Mall. Military spouse advocacy and public speaking across local and national venues such as Fox News, NBC, CBS and PBS. Her most recent venture is the development of the Association of Military Spouse Entrepreneurs. So spouse. We're going to dove straight into Flossie. I do want to get into all of those associations and things that you felt when you first take us through your academic background and early professional life.

[00:04:04] Yeah. So I actually wasn't supposed to be an entrepreneur. I was I was an accidental entrepreneur. So my academic background. I'm actually a biologist and a psychologist. Trade. So totally crazy. But I went to school with the intention to become a doctor. And I have an EMT license and being a military spouse. You often don't have control of your own path in your own career.

[00:04:35] So was dragged all over the country and went from school to school and state state to and wound up in San Diego, finally graduating after 10 years and took my catch. And I realized that my husband is getting to play again and left for kids at home. That medical school was probably not the right path for me at that point in my life. And I started an accidental business out of my home, which was no prepping and cooking for other families. So my academic background and genetic research and I'm doing psychology and toxicology research. I had absolutely nothing to do with starting a business. So I was totally unprepared for being an entrepreneur in every way possible. That you could. Tinka, huh?

[00:05:25] So what was the impetus for that particular meal prep like? Was it going ever with a buddy? Were you thinking this sounds like something I could do? And what year was that?

[00:05:36] It was in 2015 and it actually was out of. I was going through my own weight loss journey and I had been prepping for years. Was there a main weight loss journey? A few years before that, I started a Facebook page called Healthy Mama. I just would chronicle recipes and going to the gym and working out for friends. In 2015, I wasn't going to school anymore. I had graduated. I was home. We were in San Diego living on a measly military budget for a family of six. And I needed to make money. And a friend of mine who owned a gym said, hey, I'm paying a ridiculous amount of money for this really gross food and you make delicious food. I'm going to pay you to do this for me because you're doing it for your family anyway and you need the money. And I was like, OK, this is great. And get paid to do what I'm already doing. And I posted it on this Facebook page that I had created over the years with a pretty good sized following. And the response was just astronomical.

[00:06:37] My Facebook just lit up with every mom and friend and military spouse that I knew that said, oh, my God, you will cook all my food for me every week, please. Here's all my money. You take it. Oh, like bonds.

[00:06:51] Good. Yeah, exactly. So you didn't know you didn't have any of the ins and outs. Did you have any kind of a mentor or someone that you look towards or did you kind of make it up as you went along and as you garnered clients?

[00:07:04] Well, I say I went to the school of Google and YouTube, so all hours of the night scour the Internet.

[00:07:10] And I definitely failed every way possible that you could think of.

[00:07:15] And after about my first year in business, I did finally stumble upon business ventures, which are beautiful things that I didn't know. They existed because I didn't know anybody in business. I didn't know business owners. I didn't know about Score and the SBA. And I didn't know there was this whole world out there. And once I found them, I latched on to everybody I could find.

[00:07:40] And I was like, help me. I need to know everything in your brain because I don't know what I'm doing. But that first year was definitely really, really tough for me.

[00:07:50] Absolutely. And so who is to introduced you to, like, score an SBA and things that were providing the business? Was that just something you stumbled across after researching for a year?

[00:08:00] Yeah, I just stumbled across through referrals and friends and I had found somebody to score, but it wasn't a fit because I was such a new style company.

[00:08:11] I was an e-commerce company, but I was also a food company. So I was also kind of technology, but I was also brick and mortar, but was also meal prepping. So Score didn't really know what to do with me either. So yeah, right. I didn't really get matched with the right people, so I didn't have the best mentoring experiences. But then luckily through us friend, I was referred to an attorney who was like, I love everything you're doing. Here's this, you know, a really high level business mentor who then referred me to five more people who referred me to five more people who just wrapped their arms around me and said, like, here's all the good people.

[00:08:50] Better startups like this is that the young people are starting businesses today. You know, the 60 plus retired generation that don't know what you're doing. Not to knock anything, but it was definitely people that were more in tune with what I was doing.

[00:09:06] So it helped tremendously when I think it is vital to be involved with people who have young companies when your company is young, particularly because the Zaat guys like the the cultural norms of what a company is like. You were saying all of these different, you know, different categories that your company fell within.

[00:09:25] That's kind of the new norm. You know, this this cross pollination and like weaving different concepts of e-commerce into like this mill prep and delivery and all of those things. That's kind of where the new I think the new business is, at least on a large platform are headed.

[00:09:41] And so to have someone advise you correctly, you have to have someone who has that kind of agile, you know, flexibility and not just being so like, well, we're a retail store, you know, all of these like very specific categories, I suppose, that businesses traditionally fell to. I think startups are very traditionally not fitting in or fitting into five of them. You know, it's it's not this very clean and tidy moment. So the concept for mentorship, I mean, having someone who's really at least flexible to all of those areas or ideally, you know, someone who's involved in them.

[00:10:12] Yeah, and that was hard because the very first mentor I was given was like somebody who owned a bunch of pizza shops and it was somebody who's very much older than me and old brick and mortar, is it? But he was in the food business and I was like he told me everything I was doing was wrong, but he didn't understand anything that I was doing. He didn't understand that we were delivering our food, that we were a physical location. But you couldn't come get it, that it you know, that it was being ordered online, that it was meal prep, that he didn't understand anything about what we were doing because it was all so new. So everything we did was wrong and everything I was doing was the wrong way. And it just didn't make sense. Social media marketing didn't make sense like there were so many things.

[00:10:52] There was like, this isn't a good fit for me. It's not working. I, I need somebody else to help me here.

[00:10:59] And you mentioned marketing and I'm interested in some of that. With the meal prep.

[00:11:03] I feel like the meal prep, farm sharing, crop sharing, all of those kinds of industries really blossomed under, you know, the boom of the past ten years of social media marketing because it kind of allowed people to be in geographically similar areas but connect them on a different platform other than like your traditional, you know, posting up a sign at the local Whole Foods or something.

[00:11:28] And I'm curious, how much did you which platforms did you find most useful and how much did you lean on social media marketing in the beginning?

[00:11:38] And how much do you think it contributed to your growth?

[00:11:41] Well, I lead on Facebook and it was the sole basis for all of us growth. And I contribute all of it to social media marketing because I had built a brand before I ever had a business. So I built a brand in myself as helping my mom because I built community trust with sharing my recipes and sharing my knowledge. Healthy eating and exercise and all these great things that I had, you know? Fifteen thousand followers. And I was reaching several hundred thousand people. So then all of a sudden when I had a product, everyone was like, oh, my God, I want your product. And then when my product was really good, people would share my product. And then my product was very mission driven. They were focused on selling healthy, affordable food so that it was accessible to the people who really needed it. So it was half the price of products anywhere else in the market in San Diego. So people just couldn't the leads that. So we didn't have to do anything except give our food away to people who needed it to or sell it to people and then let them talk about it. And then social media just spread like wildfire. And we could not make the food fast enough. And I was drowning to keep up. So Facebook is the sole reason that we did a billion dollars in revenue our first year in business. And I. I seriously couldn't make the food fast enough.

[00:13:04] Yeah. And it's what I mean, did developing your own brand and having that be a self brand identity, I think is. I don't know if that was premeditated by you or not.

[00:13:13] But I think anytime you get into the health and fitness industry, it's crucial, you know, people buy into an individual and kind of that person's philosophy and the company's ethos is born usually out of that. You know, it's it's never in divorce from those those two attributes.

[00:13:30] If they divorce, I think don't don't function is fluidly with your actual like what you were doing. Do you have. Did you ever start with a target audience like you?

[00:13:40] You said that, you know, your initial client was this gym owner trainer that said, I've got some really horrible stuff. Come make me things. Did you take that initial customer and say, I'm going to target people in my area that are going to gyms? Or was it just anybody?

[00:13:56] It was just anybody, because at the time I didn't know you're supposed to have a target audience so you could target consumer. I just said I looked at the food that was out there and I said, it's really expensive. It's kind of bland. It's chicken and brown rice and sweet potatoes.

[00:14:12] And there's nothing for families. There's nothing for kids. There's nothing that is affordable and there's nothing that looks like it tastes good. So I'm going to make something for everybody. And I just felt like all the meal prepping services out there were very niche to the gym goer and there wasn't something that was cooked and fresh and delivered to your house. And there is things like boyfriend. But I didn't understand that concept of paying fifteen dollars a meal to cut and cook your own food. I was like, it's still just groceries delivered to your house. I was like, I want something that's six to seven to eight dollars meal. But it's already cooked. It's already delivered to your home. All you have to do is heat meat and it tastes good. And I just saw really big gap in the market. And I want something for families. And that's what I created. And every person I could think of, from individuals to gym goers to, you know, military members to moms to, you know, I've said UFC fighters, too, you name it. Our everybody bought my food. There wasn't a target demographic because everybody wants healthy, affordable food. Nobody apparently wants to cook and nobody wants to spend a lot of money on it and everyone wants good food. So it was kind of a win win for everybody.

[00:15:27] How was your growth? Was it sporadic or did it take off? And within that growth, how did you adjust with your company size?

[00:15:36] Did it start off with just you and someone else or. And how did you adjust once the growth adjusted?

[00:15:42] So Weaver in my home for the first eight months. And B, which was insane. So we went from seven months, went from my home kitchen to just me and a few friends, military spouses cooking out of my home kitchen, making eight hundred meals a week. And then we rented a commercial kitchen and went from our first day of commercial launch to within six months having 50 employees.

[00:16:10] Which is insane, to say the least. So when I say I've gone through every growing pains possible. Our growth was pure, straight. I mean, straight out. We we grew week over week over week over week. And then we just couldn't keep up with it. We had to close early. We had to, you know, run second batches to keep up. We had to deny people that we just couldn't make enough food. We couldn't hire enough people. It was really, really great. The first year, the second year, we ran into a lot of growing pains and took a really big hit with some problems and had to lay off staff. And we had a bad e-commerce site launch, which, you know, took a huge hit. And our revenues and all those problems you you don't pay attention to in the first year. Catch up in the second year. Yeah. Growing pains and things that happen, but, you know, it's it was definitely a learning experience, to say the least. But I feel like it was. I tell everybody it's a crash course MBA, but mass food production, as much as I love everything that we did in such a short amount of time. That was not my dream business. I loved the impact that we did. I loved that we, you know, sold healthy, affordable meals. I love that we gave away thousands and thousands of meals to people who needed it. I love that we helped so many organizations. We did so many good things. I have so much PTSD from that company. And every time I see Rogich and I get a little bit of a twitch.

[00:17:49] Well, and I think that some businesses that are developed out of that, you know, you have this immediate start with someone just saying, I'd like to pay you for it.

[00:17:57] You think this could be cool? I mean, earn some scratch. I'll do this. I'll do this. And then you have this wild success and suddenly it's this beast, you know, this hungry baby that you had never thought it was your life's calling anyway. I think that that is can be a lot of conversations that startups and founders and entrepreneurs, young and old, have with themselves. You know, when you think that something could be profitable or interesting to do for a year, it's not necessarily your life's passion. Right. It's just something that you're doing along the way. And the lessons there and I think are just as valuable. But I do think that having like that clear and concise conversation with yourself is good, because it sounds like I mean, especially in your case, you turned, you know, your efforts.

[00:18:37] You have time for table. I want you to just walk us through. I know that that's a work in progress, but it's it's a health. It. What we feel like a healthy recipe book and a health guide that you're writing. And then you also want to turn for after you tell us a little bit about time for Table. And when you think that or what it's kind of based around or about in case someone wants to reach out to you. And then we'll look at AMC. So time for table after.

[00:19:02] Healthy momma. So healthy momma. I had an exit that was available to me after taking some pretty tough hits for a little bit. And I kind of ran for the door as fast as I could. Yeah. But health and food is in my blood. And I'm really good at it. And people love my food. And they wanted more. So I was.

[00:19:26] But I won't be in the kitchen again. That's not a thing. I figure out how do I get what I did to the masses. So time for table was kind of worn. And it's a meal prepping guide, teaching families how to meal prep.

[00:19:42] And the goal of it eventually is going to be a company that some of my fitness sources and CEOs names that I created through Healthy Molvar, which are all homemade and tastes great. And they're going to be affordable. But with the entrepreneurial life that kind of got pushed to the backburner because the past year and a half I've been teaching military spouses how to start and launching grow their businesses all over the country. And I've been helping programs and helping national companies and helping mentor and advocate and do all these great things. And that endeavor got pushed back and I ended up launching another company on accident.

[00:20:25] As well as the Association of Military Spouse Entrepreneurs, which is a program to support military spouses in launching their businesses. So that is now a full blown beast of a business.

[00:20:38] So time for Table is still a passion project of mine that will get completed now that I can take a little bit of a breath. But food will always be my passion and meal prepping. I think it's crucial to American society today to help families stay on track. We just don't have time to cook every day. And I think, you know, prepping a bunch for food one day a week together as a family teaches you better eating habits. You grab it, go you. No excuses. And just teaching people how to do that. It's affordability. There's all these great things to it. So eventually I'll get to that. But right now, I have this whole other great program that I'm teaching other military spouses how to start and grow their businesses, which is really great.

[00:21:22] Yeah. And what an industry for it. First of all, I think you have contagious entrepreneurism. Like, I think you have this ability like this this inability not to be an entrepreneur or, you know, there's this that you're constantly backing into, which I think is kind of the state of like a true entrepreneur or just has to create things.

[00:21:40] Right. It's that you just comes out of them. And so I think it's awesome that it developed out of this kind of just organic growth.

[00:21:48] And also the industry of military spouses. It was such a ripe community of people built for entrepreneurship. You know, these these people who have spouses, all kind of a line under that their career, you know, modus operandi. And then most of them with families, all of them in a geographic area. Like I just think there's a lot of there wasn't a lot of talk in the 90s in the aughts about like that community. And since then, I've learned so much about people that are reaching out and they themselves networking within that, you know, the military spouse, community and things like that. It seems like it's ripe for doing what you're doing, which is, you know, teaching people, as you say, with your, you know, self acquired MBA of how to launch a startup.

[00:22:35] It seems like the perfect avenue for it. I'm wondering, does your interface happen virtually so that you can reach military spouses across America? Or is it all done more face to face? How is it all setup thus far? So everything is virtually.

[00:22:49] And we actually have spouses globally. So we even have spouses that are stationed overseas because spouses are all over the world. And that is the problem. Military spouses have the highest unemployment rate in the country at nearly 30 percent. And it's because of our lifestyle. Like I said earlier, we often don't have control over what we do, where we live, where we're going. Our timelines, our resumes are spotty, the demands on our lifestyle. We have kids at home. And I truly believe that entrepreneurship is just a huge answer to that, because we are our own bosses. We don't have to answer to anybody. We can take our kids with us to work. We can work remotely from home. We can work from a laptop and Wi-Fi. And we can do things like, you know, develop our own social media businesses or build websites or be graphic designers or, you know, do all these great, amazing technology based businesses and do it from all over the world. And spouses are now starting to realize that entrepreneurship is an option, that they don't know where to start. So the association military spouse entrepreneurs is just a way to say.

[00:23:59] Hey, we understand you, we get your lifestyle, you're not just living or the hard lifestyle, which is known spouse lifestyle, but you're also living the entrepreneurship lifestyle, which is really hard, too. So let's come together and support you. Let's show you what resources are out there, because you're very disconnected from your community.

[00:24:20] So here's some great programs here, some great tools here, some great discounts here, some great events. And then here's other people doing it. So ask your questions. Here's some great webinars. And here's a lawyer and you can talk to.

[00:24:34] Here's, you know, a virtual coworking spaces. Here is a private channel like go in and talk to other photographers that are running their own photography businesses. It's just a great place of community support of people that get you in your lifestyle.

[00:24:50] Absolutely. Yeah. The select channels. It's a really good point. I love it. I love where the industry has gone, especially the virtual industry.

[00:24:58] There's I mean, I you know, I just interviewed a personal trainer who's speaking to me from Bolly, and half of her clients are located in the Americas.

[00:25:06] And she just I was I hadn't even occurred to me, you know, that someone could do. And that's ridiculous. Of course, you can do anything, you know, online. I'm an avid member of Peloton and I do all of my cycling online. All of a sudden, you know, I'm talking to this woman just like you have. My clients aren't here. And I thought, that's so true. It's such a good point.

[00:25:25] And I think that most businesses have an avenue where, you know, you can have more of a virtual basis. And introducing people to do that is awesome. When you look at I mean, I knew that the association is young, but when you look at goals or growth, I mean, you sound like a fairly goal oriented individual for like over the next few years.

[00:25:45] Where do you see an AMC going? Like where would you be happiest if it was to be in the next three years?

[00:25:52] So I tend to not aim small. I don't know if you have heard that. Right. I've got it. World domination kind of hurts.

[00:26:01] And so my goal is for AMC to be a part of something affiliated into the government, into the Chamber of Commerce that is supported and backed by, you know, the SBA and score. And we have a lot of great partnerships already with great programs like Halo, Atlas and Founders Institute. And we have a lot of amazing people supporting our military spouses. And we just want to get them all of the great things to help them launch and grow their businesses. So whether that's grants for them specifically to get their business license or, you know, get that legal paperwork or file that LLC or whatever it is, my goal is pretty vague. But anything it takes to get them to have control of their own path, to have a stable career and to bring financial stability to their families. That's my goal at the end of the day.

[00:27:00] That's another way that we can service to as a you know, as a country to give back.

[00:27:04] I mean, it's I'm of the staunch opinion that we don't do enough for our active service members or veterans. And it's always been a state of propaganda and platform during elections. And then I think it gets pushed to the side during the reality after those and not to become political at all. But there's just hard figures that support that. We don't give enough attention. And I think these kinds of second, you know, grandfathered in moments of saying, like, let's look at the spouses as well in order to give back to our military service members is a really unique and clever way to go about it. I mean, I can imagine that the payback to to the economy and to the entire veterans and active members. Population would be nothing but good for everyone. So I think it's it it's not just a lofty goal. I think it's a good one. You know, I think it would service everyone involved to have this. The spouses of military members be really engaged and looked at and offer, you know, these moments instead of kind of, like you said, stripped of the ability to do things that require one to be geographically present all the time.

[00:28:17] So people don't understand the ripple effect that it has. When a military spouse is lost and hopeless and feels defeated, that that rolls down to, hey, I want you to get out of the military. This isn't the life for me. I think you need to get out. I think for Don, because I want to move back home, I'm miserable. And you know how much money that our government looses because they've spent time and money to put into that service member in training. And after six years or eight years, that service member gets out because their spouses, miserable and lonely and defeated, doesn't have a career, doesn't have a path. But when that spouses are empowered and has their own path and their own identity, then that spouse isn't saying, hey, I need you to get out of the military. They say, I'm going to support you because you support me. You live your life. I live my life. We're both happy. We're both leaving our path. And then the military retention rate goes up and that saves our country billions of dollars. And the mental health in that family impacts the children because they have happy parents. They have happy mom. They you know, just the ripple effect of what it does for spouses is is 10. And the statistics that we have behind it is is insane. It's like, let's just give our spouses something that they can call their own. And I'm just trying to empower them and say, hey, you don't have to wait around for somebody to hire you. You don't have to take a job at a local coffee shop just to feel like you have something. Take take your career in your own hands and go do it yourself. Here's the tools. Here's what you need. Go do it. Your time is now.

[00:29:49] Nice. Yeah, absolutely. It sounds it sounds exciting.

[00:29:53] I mean, I think it can branch even beyond the community. But the community that you're looking on, I think is so valiant.

[00:30:00] I wonder. So given the massive amount of self education that you have in startups and things of that nature, if someone approached you tomorrow on the street and said, I'm going to go off on it and do this entrepreneurial thing, you know, I'm a military spouse.

[00:30:15] What are your top three pieces of advice you would give that person as they were like headed out into the beginning moments of that journey?

[00:30:22] I would say to find a mentor. First of all, mentorship is key to lean on mentors. I am a firm believer in having people guide you to. Don't be afraid to take the leap. It's never going to be perfect. But you always have to just go. You can build it and fly it with people in it. But you have to least jump off the cliff, right? Yeah, absolutely. You can build it on the way down. And I think third is protect yourself. Always a lot of people that I've read into, a lot of startups, a lot of entrepreneurs, they don't protect the things that they build. And that hurt me a lot in my first business. And now it's the foundation of everything I do and I teach legal is very, very important in business and it's a very sad part of business.

[00:31:12] But you have to protect yourself in so many different ways and protect everything that you've worked so hard to build. So I think that's a really important aspect of businesses. Protect yourself even if your your husband is your co-founder. You should have a founders agreement cause you always prepare for the divorce and everything that you do, right?

[00:31:35] That's absolutely true, I think. And it's good it's good to keep your eyes not always, you know, starry and also not always pessimistic. So find a mentor. Don't be afraid. You can build it after the jump. And then protect yourself. Button up your legalities. Those are great pieces of advice. I completely concur. I think that those are exactly what young entrepreneurs need to keep in mind. Well, we're out of time, but I wanted to say thank you so much, Flossie.

[00:32:03] I really love your endeavors and what you're doing, and I really appreciate you giving me. I know we're approaching a holiday and I really appreciate you giving us a little bit of your time, even though you've got a hectic life and a hectic house.

[00:32:17] Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you for all that you do. And I'm so grateful and I hope you have a happy Thanksgiving with your family.

[00:32:24] Absolutely. Right back at you. And thank you. Anyone who's looking to hear more about the AMC, the Association of Military Spouse Entrepreneurs, you can get on a m.

[00:32:35] S e co or you can visit Flossie's Web site, Flossie Hall dot com, and learn more about Flossie and her own personal brand within that.

[00:32:45] Thank you for everyone listening. I appreciate your time. And until we speak again. Remember to always bet on yourself.

View Details

Interview with Kathryn Cloward: CEO & Founder of Kandon Unlimited. Kathryn is an award-winning book series author, performing songwriter, media publisher and producer, and serial entrepreneur. Kandon Unlimited is a heart-centered mindful media company intent on creating positive and empowering media for people of all ages. (https://kathryncloward.com/)

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it. Histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company Web site. Wild Ducks agency. That's w i. L. D e. Dot Agency or my personal Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Kathryn Cloward. Kathryn is CEO and founder of Kendon Unlimited. Welcome, Kathryn.

[00:01:41] Hi, thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to be on your show.

[00:01:44] Absolutely. I look forward to speaking with you. I'm going to read a brief bio on Kathryn.

[00:01:48] But before I do that, for everyone listening, I always proffer up a roadmap of where today's podcast is headed. So if you want to return to it and go to a specific part, it's a little bit easier to do. Today, we're gonna have four main sectors. First, we're going to address Kathryn's academic background and early professional life. Following that, then we'll launch straight into unpacking Kendon and limited, namely the who, what, when, where, why and how of that company and kind of get into the structure and then more about the minutia of of the ethos and what the company is all about. Then we'll go straight to the goals that Kathryn has, both for Candan and Limited and personally, as well as some of the other areas that she's in in her life. And then we will wrap everything up with advice that Kathryn has for those looking to get involved in her work, work with her or a kind of mirror what she's done with her career thus far. We offer a quick bio on Kathryn. Kathryn Cloward is an award winning book series author, performing songwriter. Media publisher and producer and serial entrepreneur Kathryn is founder and CEO of Kendon Unlimited, a heart centered, mindful media company intent on creating positive and empowering media for people of all ages. Founded in 2010 to independently publish her Kathryn the Grape series of books, Candan and Limited has expanded to become a full spectrum media company that owns and or represents media assets for over two hundred published books and songs, has three trademark brands and manages multiple independent artists. It also produces the Ripple Effect with Kathryn Cloward podcast series offering listeners refreshing and authentically transparent conversations about cultivating sustainable fulfillment personally and professionally. To date, Kathryn has earned 14 national level awards and six regional level awards for her books and music. Raised by her parents to have a spirit of giving back. Kathryn has consistently channeled her energy into graciously helping others by donating her time and resources to a variety of nonprofit organizations and enrichment programs for youth. In recent years, she's Porter Energy into helping raise awareness and money for local and national charitable causes by writing and producing impact songs that often feature youth performers and are fueled for fueled forward in part by community support through her company's charitable arm. So I'm excited to kind of climb into all of that with you, Kathryn. But first, we talk to us a little bit about your academic background and early professional life following that.

[00:04:23] Sir, sir, will I?

[00:04:26] I actually am from San Diego. I'm a native fan, Diegan and I attended San Diego State University.

[00:04:32] I actually funded my own college. You know, I was raised in a family with three older brothers. And so there's four of us largely on one income, most of our of our lives. And my parents just didn't have the money to send us all to college, which we all knew.

[00:04:49] And I kind of followed in my brother's footsteps and doing what they did in the sense of figuring out how to get to college, do college and do it without tremendous debt. So I went to our community college for two years and then I graduated from ACSU with a degree in communications. So I was very involved in college. I was the president of the School of Communication Network. I was on the water ski team. That was a lot of fun. And I and I worked all through college.

[00:05:18] So I worked as a food server, as a waitress, and I graduated without any debt. So I'm really proud of that.

[00:05:25] Nice things.

[00:05:28] And then, you know, around that time, because I had been in San Diego my whole life, I had gotten that travel bug. I had gone to Europe in between my junior and senior year of college. And I was like, all right, you know, I don't want to go to grad school. I wanted to travel. And so, sure, my first job out of college at FSU, I went and worked for Club Med and had so much fun working for Club Med, had a regular, you know, customer service, public relations job during the day, and then got to perform at night and all the shows. And then I went and worked and lived in New Zealand for a year. I worked I was there with a man I was dating and lived there for a year. And that was great fun. And then I was kind of like, all right, I want to get back to this track. And so I started my career as a corporate headhunter for my first three years of my career.

[00:06:26] My entire career has always been this entrepreneurial, you know, unlimited uncap earning, potential risk reward, high commission sales type structure. And that's exactly what I got involved with.

[00:06:41] If recruiting and I and I loved it and I I thrive in that unlimited possibility base. Some people freak out, not faith, and rightly so, because there is no guarantee. Right.

[00:06:57] That's why I started my career and I started I worked my head down and learned that business and. And I learned the real basics of sales and marketing and relationship building and client management and keen organization all within this, you know, hard core, I think hard core.

[00:07:18] Just because it was like sink or swim, you know, environment. Yeah. Took me nine months to my first commission check and. And I worked on the weekends and I just knew I could do it. I saw other people doing it. I saw other people hitting any sales awards. These achievements, these you know, they were figuring out the business and. And I eventually did, too. And I ramped up very quickly after that. And I very much enjoyed that, that segment of my career.

[00:07:45] Yeah. There's a lot of PR involved. Or as a corporate head hunting.

[00:07:49] And, you know, my my knowledge in that industry is strictly based on kind of after the bubble burst in the Bay Area and the corporate head hunting game kind of changed after that, at least in San Francisco. And I was amazed at how much like a public relations and relationship building is kind of based or at least was in that area during that time. I had a very good friend who was kind of involved in it, and she would she had a very firm as far as business relationships are concerned. She had, you know, a very tight knit relationship with a lot of her clients. And it was kind of based on because finding talent and making that right. It's very matchmaking and, you know, kind of the understanding that the client as well as the talent, it becomes this. You know, it it works. People trust you. They return. There's a lot of money. And if it doesn't, you're done.

[00:08:44] And so she had it. She did a lot of courtship in the beginning with those clients. And it was like this, the constant dinners, just constant dinners and lunches and things of that nature.

[00:08:54] And then really feeling it was she was she felt like she was a counselor, like us, a psychotherapist or something to bulls people. So I found it fascinating. But never, never. Time off. It was like a real estate agent. I felt like she was always on. She was always accountable, you know, on those times. Do you think that well, first of all, is that similar to your experience? And do you think that you gleaned things from your earlier career with even Club Med, Ms. Communications degree your travel. Did those lend to becoming successful in corporate headhunting or was it kind of all learned during those nine months before that first commission check?

[00:09:33] No, no. That's a great question. No, I think I would say I resonate with the relationship.

[00:09:41] Is everything in business across the board? I don't know that that's been the common thread for sure. I definitely have a rooted from when I was growing up. Just rooted, if you want me to earn it mentality. And so that that's translated into this entrepreneurial spirit I have.

[00:10:01] But for sure, I believe wholeheartedly that relationships are everything. And so people, you know, people don't do business with people they don't like.

[00:10:07] Right. I mean, that's I remember he said that by Steven Govey or somebody. But, you know, as far as I was part of that bubble, I got into corporate recruiting right before the dot com bubble hit and we learned to cold call. And so, you know, there were a lot of recruiting agencies that, you know, they would advertise and warm leads. We literally were the headhunting ones poach you approach a V.P. of sales out of another company and bring them over. Yeah. I mean, so you're right. As far as the metaphor or the similarity of of real estate agents, where you're you're dealing with, you know, the clients would be somebody who has the house. Right. And then you've got the the the the talent would be the person seeking a home. And so it was it was definitely matchmaking that way. And the the. The way I grew to be extremely successful in that time, especially when the dot.com hit, because when the dot.com hit and everybody had money, right. All these beasties had come and go. All right. We need to bring in all of you sales people. And all these people can grow our company. We need 25 people who can do this, this, this and this. And because we had I had rooted in the skill of what I was doing, I could be I could figure that out and make a call. And also my team could do that. And so we were just we were just hitting it. But at the end of the day, it was the relationship with my clients. Right. That. Why would they want to come back to me? Why would they trust me when there were some when there were other agencies trying to offer the same thing? And that kind of year they're going to buy from me or not buy for me if I can provide you with a great service. That mentality is always served me very well in my career. You know, there's no ancient myths about it. It's just kind of like, you know, hey, I just want the opportunity to be in the ballgame with you. And I mean, you know, and if you like doing business with me, you're gonna keep coming back and you like me. We're gonna grow this relationship. You know, they're obviously going to come to me first. And that relationship building side of what I do has, as I said, has been a common thread. And I'll tell you where I learned that. I actually learned that I will always give this credit with by waitressing and by food service. So those jobs that seeded, you know, those kind of early those early skills that I got, you know, I learned how to be very to turn on my intuition and what people needed. I know that was the time where there wasn't a line on the credit card thing that said tip. Nowadays, everywhere you go, there's like. Tip your tip included. Tip, tip, you know, work really hard for that money. And so I learned how to small talk with people, how to build relationships. And that just naturally say great over into corporate recruiting. And sure enough, the next position when I didn't want people to be my product anymore because that, you know, there was a lot of variable there. And I you know, I've been selling manager. I promoted up to be a selling manager. So I was not only leading and developing people, I was also accountable on sales, which was always good for me without competing against my people, which kind of felt weird to me. But I didn't want to be in the people business anymore. And sure enough, one of my clients who I had who had done a lot of work for somebody I brought on and did close a lot of deals with them, brought them a lot of talent when I was looking to make a move. I called, you know, that V.P. of sales and said, hey, I'm ready to make a move or, you know.

[00:13:31] And sure enough, boom, I might work for that company. So it's the relationship piece of everything matters.

[00:13:37] Yeah, absolutely. Networking within those relationships as well. So Clemetson to Kendon Unlimited. What was the impetus for launching it? Did it happen gradually? When was the actual official year that it launched?

[00:13:49] And can you give us like some background as to you know, we mentioned in the bios that it's this kind of heart centered, mindful media company. What what do you what services do you provide? And let's start with when it was launched. If you founded it alone, did you take any funding?

[00:14:10] Yeah, it's a great question. My first started my first company to go need a backup a little bit. I started my first company in 2005. It started when I'd gone, worked for my client that was a food marketing company, worked for them for three years. And then I went out on my own basically in direct competition with them. They've cut a bunch of commissions on sales reps and you just don't do that. And I went out on my own.

[00:14:30] And so I started my first company and grew that to be hugely successful over the course of the next five years. And again, Doug indeed made relationships, clothes, deals, and that was all self-funded. I, I, I launched and funded that company by borrowing money from my own savings account. And then one of my clients who I was. Had his own company. I had my own company. He actually financially backed the first few deals I did that were, you know, in the in the five and six figure range, which I didn't have in my company at the time. And he he funded those we split those deals. And then, sure enough, within about six months I'd paid myself back and I was running my company on cash. Yeah, but then then, of course, the Great Recession hit, you know, which really impacted my company in 2009, 2010. And I just was kind of. And that was about the time when the creativity side of me was really coming to light where this idea to bring my childhood nickname, Kathryn the Great into children's book series of books and music and videos and whatnot, that all was taking shape in in that time.

[00:15:42] And so I was at this kind of choice point, moment precipice in my life going, you know, I I was really good at the food business, but I didn't want to switch segments and I didn't want that to be my future. I just I was good at it, but I just felt I didn't feel fulfilled in that. But I had this other piece of me that was growing. And that's when I was like I started writing books and. And I actually formed Candan Unlimited originally because I didn't I wanted to own the rights of Kathryn the Great.

[00:16:13] The whole reason I did that company was when I first started writing and I, of course, thought I was going to go that traditional publishing route that a lot of people do. And some people find own validation and somebody else saying, another publisher, go, you're a worthy, we're going to publish you. But we're going to hold everything you've got. Hard for me. I was. I started down that route. The help. That was the only path. And a I was a speaker at a conference one time and the keynote speaker and I spoke and I was asking her about how she got her book out. She advised me to independently publish.

[00:16:44] And next thing you know, I started looking into that, you know, a few months down the line. And once I realized that, hey, going with somebody else meant they own the rights to my character at that early stage in development. And I hadn't really sussed out the whole vision yet. I just was like, you know what? I don't want anybody else to own Kathryn the Great, because my vision has always been very expansive. And so I once I got onto that path, I was like, no, I'm going to do this on my own. And so I started Candan Unlimited originally as a publishing company and a book publishing company specifically. And and I didn't need any outside funding for that. You know, I've you know, I parlayed parlayed some I'd had success previously, so I was able to I didn't need to seek outside funding. Originally, some of the people who were onboard my team had shares in my company, kind of like in that kind of work equity trade. And then as time went on and those people were a part of it anymore, I bought my equity back and thereby got them out there. You know, they they got out and I got them out of the equity. And I own my company 100 percent. So as time has gone on, the company has has expanded and taken shape. And so originally I was publishing other people's books because I was good at it and I could do it. But it got me off focus, quite frankly. And so I, I kind of I. I actually although I own half those rights to those books, I actually gave all the rights back to anybody in business who would do that. But I was like, I got to focus on what I'm doing. And I was very accountable that way. I was like, I want you guys to be successful. But, you know, I don't want I need to focus on what I need to do. And I'm to give you back my rightful rights in your project. And that's just the way I see things. You know, I I wanted to help other people be successful, but I needed to to kind of cut those branches so I could have my tree grow in the direction and the integrity that I foresee. So I got into the music business. You know, put it all under my own label. The music is published under the company for Candan. Unlimited is really an umbrella company. It's the S corporation. It's a you know, it's it's an S corporation, which is really good for for what I do. And and the cat, Kathryn the Great, is the lead pony on that. And then also I represent and then Candan Global Publishing is the music side of it. You know, Candan Unlimited holds all the publishing rights to the books. And then I also represent other artists who are on my label and I publish their music. And so it's just it's just taking shape and and growing, but all on the seeds of my own creativity. And and then bringing in other people have like minded missions in their life with their creativity. And we're just growing and expanding that way. But I took my time. I didn't I didn't rush it.

[00:19:50] There wasn't this like Napster, like these are the 10 ball that we have to achieve in order to reach. I just trusted, just like I did previously, that I could grow something to be successful in my in my own way.

[00:20:04] That I think that's important. A lot of people get discouraged if things don't grow as fast as they expect it, because I've been I've had this kind of track record of digging in deep and doing the work and knowing things take time. And now Candan, you know, we're up and running. You know, we're doing we're doing great things on the planet. I'm really proud of the work that we do.

[00:20:24] Yeah. And this summer in October, my this series has been interviewing in an acknowledgment in honor of Women's Health and Breast Cancer Awareness Month. And we've talked to a lot of people specifically geared towards health and healing and longevity and things like that. And throughout all of the different industries that we've been speaking to, ranging from, you know, people who are health practitioners all the way into people who are wealth managers and wealth, health and things like that, there's a constant dialog about kind of holding a space for yourself in order to kind of allow things to organically, you know, develop. And I think that there is not a great need in female entrepreneurs for goal setting. There's more of a need for this kind of like holding that space open for your creativity on every spectrum to kind of reveal itself, you know, and take for a little bit more organically than I think that in this day of like, what's your elevator and what you pitch deck with your elevator pitch, which is, you know, constantly rehearsed and did it.

[00:21:32] And that's, you know, that's all the incubators and all the accelerators. Do you know quickly, you know, get everything done mixture that I've done in five sentences or less. It's a canard and it removes creativity.

[00:21:42] And it also creates this hyper activity that I think sometimes can stand in direct conflict with this, like what you're talking about, you allowing yourself to do, which is allowing these things kind of envelop, you know, develop to what they need to be. And in the time space that they have, we have you have the music branch and you still have, Kathryn, the grapes that you developed Canon and Limited for. Do you ever bring on any other authors or is the publishing side strictly for your literature?

[00:22:15] Right. Well, originally, I did bring on other authors. Right. And as I mentioned. But I not. And then I could that kind of like, close that door. OK. Ironically enough, that's exactly.

[00:22:25] That's we're kind of coming back into that. And the reason why I say this is and that's actually we've got two books on the on the pike in the pipeline for 2020 that are other people that are written by other people. But why I bring light to that is because why?

[00:22:44] This is an important point to make for for any entrepreneur or female or male.

[00:22:49] But that that while I'm really good, I'm really good at publishing. I'm really good at projects like I can I my mind is like this. It's like I have all these computer screens up. I can see everything and you know, up there and then what comes down the pipe to get produced. And I was really, really good at book publishing. However, I didn't at that time, sometimes over really good isn't necessarily the path that that is going to give us the greatest level of fulfillment. And where we need to be focused. And so I had to learn that to like what you were saying, like when you were talking about elevate your pitches.

[00:23:24] And it's like I literally felt inside my body that like. Right.

[00:23:28] Like I said that just because that's kind of just a place I used to be like I could, you know, I used to lead sales seminar, the marketing seminars, all that enough. I could still do that. But that's not where I want to be. That's not where where I want to be for my future. And I think it's really beautiful for that, that I have this for for all of us to to hold space for ourselves with as and knowing that that that at any given time we can we can charge for it with the hustle. Right. There's I've got a lot of determination and grit and I can make it happen. And at the same time, in the same Kathryn's space, I'm able to sit with myself and go, what? Who am I now and what do I represent now? And how does that going to carry me forward? And so this constant the road is, though I'm always traveling forward, but sometimes there's a little bit of a shift that I go over here and then I come back and I go over here. And so allowing myself that that wide open journey ahead without it being like and while I do have goals, they're not these like these like these that I'm on a call I'm going to make today and my weekly goal a month, I go, I mean, that's just so antiquated to me and feels very like sales when I wanted to me. Now it's not it's not where I'm at. And I think you're right. I don't think it's for a lot of people are out anymore.

[00:24:51] So as your structure has changed with that, even the genre expansion from publishing and music, have you employed people to kind of assist you with that or have you kept your ski or crew tight? How many people are you working with?

[00:25:06] That's a great question. I am definitely a team oriented person. I always keep. You know, I know how to dig in deep with some really quality people. And depending on what aspect of the company, there are different people who do different things.

[00:25:23] And so, you know, I can 99 everybody, because that's the world we're in, especially with creatives. And it keeps my company and kind of working the way that we do. But one of the, you know, for instance, like this is a fun part of it. I love performing. I write my own casting Cloward music as well. And I have four albums out for that. And so in my Kathryn Floured and the Royal Ballet's, my bass player is a graphic designer and web developer.

[00:25:53] And so David does designs. He he kind of moved into the position of designing doing the graphic design layout for all my books in the past year where, you know, I had somebody else doing that in the past. And so I love like the team. Family oriented base. I'm really good at something now. People who are really talented and I love working with. With oftentimes people who are green on experience, yet on fire with with the talent and working with people who perhaps are shadow college or or whatnot, but not David, but other people. But, yes, I have I have a whole kind of I call it like a stable of people that I work with. And a different aspect, whether it's on the music side, the publishing side, we do a bunch of videos. So it's just it's like this kind of team of people who are part of a media company, but they're in different aspects. And there's also some crossover. And that keeps everything, everything moving along beautifully and keeps people working.

[00:26:59] And while they're able to do other stuff as well, yeah, it's it's an ideal kind of format. And for everyone listening. Ten ninety nine that Kathryn mentioned is kind of a tax filing system for people who are working as project to project or freelance basis.

[00:27:17] And it's kind of it's the ideal status for someone who has. I would say changing projects and a changing flow of work for their business instead of just a, you know, a full time employee. And I agree with what your like what your assessment of that is. Do you have areas or genres that you found that you guys have started focusing on? You have yours. You have Kathryn the Grape, which I want to climb into in a minute. But do you find that you guys have started to get into these very specific either you're welcoming you, excited with helping other people publish. Now, it sounds like a couple more people are coming on. Do you find that you attract as a business like a specific musical genre or artist or even these new authors are coming on board, or does it span the gamut?

[00:28:07] That's a good question. It's more about the ripple comes from me, about what I want to put my energy on to. And I'm very specific about wanting to work with people. Why I haven't wanted to expand it because I'm very specific about what I want to do now. And, you know, my heart is to put out heart centered, mindful, heart centered media.

[00:28:30] That is that's the scope.

[00:28:33] And so, like, for instance, I worked with Jennifer Klein is a woman who's on my music label. We publish all of her music. I work very closely with her. We've dug in deep with her career in the last year. And so she's a she's an artist under Candan Unlimited. And in her music. And here's the thread. I met her like.

[00:28:58] Quite a long time ago when I was working at that food marketing company. You know, my second my second career job. So we've known each other for a long time.

[00:29:05] Well, and she's a creative. She's a mom. You know, she's she's the, you know, on fire businesswoman. And she has this beautiful heart for sharing life lessons and messages through music and her songwriting. I see a lot of myself in her. She sees a lot of herself in me. So it's a natural, you know, harmonious relationship.

[00:29:27] And so she's she's one of our lead. You know, she she works closely with me. But I work with her because we have that synergy as far as character, integrity go and our work ethic. But also and equally important, her message aligns with what I'm sharing in the world. So I want to represent other artists, other creatives, other projects that fall within that. And and that that's a line of integrity for our mission that I'll never waver on.

[00:29:59] Nice. Yeah, that's. I think it's important for that kind of clarity. I think is what keeps companies from being happy. You know, because happy and wealthy are not always in tandem. And so I think a lot of people can have a very successful financial company and be very unhappy with it because they let go of that ethos.

[00:30:19] You know, they let go of their original view of what their ethos should be. And keeping track of that. I think always lands. And it also lends clarity and transparency for future clients. You know, when someone is very constantly revolving around the goals in which they wrote the company and not just the bottom line or the financial specifics, you know, but really understanding what they emotionally intended for their company and keeping that always at the forefront is it lends to its authenticity, its clarity for everyone involved. So I think that's fantastic. Did you.

[00:30:55] I think it's important. I just want to plug in there. And I think it's important to also give yourself Grace that I didn't necessarily have that that overall spectrum clarity early on. Right. I had to develop into that going. This is what I as as I as Kathryn now and Kathryn is have been evolving over the last 10 years as I was getting more and more clear about myself and the footprint I want to leave on this planet and what my living legacy is. Personally, I got more and more clear about the type of work that I wanted to do. And I agree with you. You know, you can I can I read a very, very, very successful company that had crazy, amazing sales achievements. And there were some people that I was working with that I always say were kind of like snakes in the grass, you know, like there was like some unethical stuff that was happening that came to light. And I was like, I don't wanna be a part of this. And but there was a there was a time in my career I had to go, you know, why do I pull out? When do I stop doing this? Because I got mortgages. I got a mortgage and all these different things. You know, I think I think sometimes I hear some of these young, you know, aspiring entrepreneurs like, well, we have to have this all mapped out now. And I'm like, you know, all of it. You know, you just get on the road. Don't overthink the whole the whole map. Just start traveling down the road. And clarity will become part of of those those signposts as you go. And then you'll get more and more and more clear about why you're on the road, what you plan to do on that road. And instead of that analysis, paralysis of I got to have this all figured out, you know, and. But you're. But I did add I've been on the road. I got more and more clear.

[00:32:42] And as you pointed out, now people are very clear about what I work with. You know, some absolute numbers not going to come to me. They gather me, published my book. It's about this, you know, X, Y, Z, completely out of scope of what I do. You know, it just wouldn't have and they wouldn't even present.

[00:32:57] Absolutely. That. And it keeps them in your time tight as well. She's not feeling well. Did you. So really quickly, I feel like we skipped over or I don't have a clear in my. And when was it launched, when we unlimited was at two thousand eleven.

[00:33:12] Well, Cabinet Limited launched in 2010. We we filed in 2010 specifically and I launched that was January 2010 and officially launched eleven eleven, 2010. So I built behind the scenes meaning like, here's our first product launch. Here's our first character launch was on 11 11, 2010. And that was it took some time to to get that going, which is appropriate. And I'm always very aware of making sure that that I am litigious, really about, you know, that I get to take care of all the important pieces of what we're doing, the trademark copywriting mantra. Everything's buttoned up legally. Some people I know, they skip these steps. And it's like this this stuff. It's the it's the framework of your company. It's the framework that protects you, brand. And so, you know, all of that stuff gotten to places where building, building, building, and then, poof, here we are. And that's kind of how I like to do things. I like to go like, you know, we we cultivate behind the scenes and all of a sudden, boom, here we are, you know, and I just I have I have a big vision for where we're going. And I have a real Lustick idea of how how we're gonna get there and continue getting there. And, you know, we've done some really great stuff so far and we're gonna keep doing it, doing great stuff.

[00:34:42] Absolutely. So can you tell us a little bit about the character of the series, rather, of Kathryn the Great? Yeah, it was it was the impetus for launching all of this. And so I think it it's it weighs heavily on the story of the narrative and the story as well. So without getting too much into the minutia, because I do want to get into the future goals for Canon Unlimited. But can you tell us a little bit about that series?

[00:35:08] Yeah. There Kathryn the Great. Thank you. I'd love to. I'd love to share about her. But you know, Kalvin, the group really came to life. It was this idea that my mom had to take my childhood nickname into being this character to Great Neck.

[00:35:21] I am actually a softball coach when I was 11 years old.

[00:35:28] She called me Kathryn the Great because I wore purple all the time. So, you know, like a fun little play on Kathryn the Great.

[00:35:34] But, you know, my mom had this idea and it wasn't until 10 years later, which was 10 years. So she had this idea like 20 years ago. And and then 10 years later, I started writing. And it's kind of like always in the back of my mind is it's like you've got to do this, you got to do this. But it just never took shape then. And then I started writing and this is what why I brought Kathryn the great life with this. I was going through a challenging time of my own life. I had I checked all the boxes, I had achieved all these incredible goals. Right. And I was. And life was I wasn't fulfilled. Like I thought I was just kind of. I was on this treadmill, to be quite frank. I felt like one of those rats that just goes run out. You know, there was just tremendous responsibility. And during this time, you know, pieces of my life were just or were. I needed some help. And I and I started seeking additional modalities for understanding myself, some therapy or seeking a lot of different things. And as I was accepting some changes in my life, I was also accepting these and discovering more specifically rediscovering some beautiful pieces about myself, about who I truly am. I was I was really getting filled up with self-love, like accepting, accepting, suffering. And as I was getting these tools of self love for myself as a grown woman, I so desperately wished I had these this awareness when I was a child. And as I'm raising my son, my son was just two, three years old at this time. I wanted my son to have these tools. And so that's where kind of like the cogs in the wheels clicked together. And now I wanted to make Kathryn the great children's book character that would give these mindful messages, the heart centered, loving messages to children. You know, if you go into any bookstore right now or you Google it, there's all these resources for adults to heal our lives, you know, self-love, whatever the buzzword is right now. But at that time, you know, I go into these kind of self-help sections and there's so much for adults so that we can, like, heal our lives and do all this work. But really, what are we giving to our children? And I was like, and I like children to have it, because also if children have it, adults have it, too. And we're getting the same message. And so my hope was, gosh, you know, if I can help help give people these tools early on, perhaps we'll be doing less repair work in adult hood. And so that's where that's where the that's what energizes me with the great period. And so that's what I've created. So and it's taken me some time to really create this sink series. So I and I, we have Kathryn the Great Affirmation series. Are seven books in the series. Every book has an affirmation. I am magical. I am colorful. I am love. I am kind. I'm unique. I'm grateful. I'm joyful. Each one of those affirmations has it like a metaphorical tool, which will be a toy coming in 2020. But so there's these tools that go with that.

[00:38:46] And this character goes on this like self discovery journey of figuring things out about herself. But she's very much an everyday kid, you know, who goes to school and play sports and you know what not.

[00:38:58] And I just age the target audience reading age. Perfect.

[00:39:04] The Affirmations series is really geared towards that younger elementary school age child. And so the sweet spot for me is really the kind of that first and second grade grader who's still interested in who's perhaps reading a bit more in my book. The Affirmation series is wordy. I mean, it's got it's I kind of get Dr. Seuss book out quite a bit of words. But as far as that in-between for young readers, where they're the illustrated series in the chapter book series, this is kind of fill that gap where children are ready for more word rich books yet are still excited about illustrations. That's what Kathryn the Great Affirmation series is and does. And then I just launched literally last month the Kathryn the Great.

[00:39:51] Let's Read Together series, where I age the character down into a preschool aged child. And those books are geared towards the youngest readers, so toddlers and preschoolers.

[00:40:06] So we went out with a few traditional books and then the same the same lessons that I teach in the Affirmations series are taught in a book called My Treasure Box, A Tool to Love All. All we simplified down for that age. And that is exactly what I do kind of in a nutshell, is I share age appropriate messages, heart centered, loving messages right on age down and aged up.

[00:40:35] So I was going to say I'm going to do the same in reverse and go into, like, the way into like middle school and all of that.

[00:40:43] Yes. Yes. That's exciting. Yeah. We're good. Yeah, so. And we have the framework. So the framework is there. The message is clear, you know.

[00:40:52] And I only just finished the this this whole seven book series in two thousand nineteen. It took me that long to really learn these messages. You know, it's not this like crude. This is the buzzword now. And this is what we're doing is just what I've always been doing. I just had to learn the message. You you can't teach children about joyfulness and gratitude and being unique and in an authentic way unless you're really learning those lessons, too.

[00:41:22] Yeah. And that's what I've that's what I've done.

[00:41:24] That's exciting. So what are the goals for the next three years, not just four. It sounds like it's going to to move forward into the older audience range for the Y.A..

[00:41:34] But what about the goals for the global publishing, for future authors or for the music? Do you have anything that's kind of just on the horizon?

[00:41:46] Yes. So the as far as Kathryn the great brand, there's quite a few strains on the car. So the cast, Kathryn the great brand in 2020 will be coming out with the merchandizing for Kathryn the Great. So we've got the Kofman a great ball and then the merchandizing for those toys. I see Kathryn the Great becoming in my vision for Kathryn. My great is for Kathryn the great to be a household name worldwide. And so one of the ways that we're going to be doing that as well is all the books are being translated first into Spanish.

[00:42:18] And that's what will happen in 2020. So doing our first full series, translation in Spanish and releasing those 2020 toys flushes is 20/20 and often doing way more of a video kind of mini series focus. We've been pitching for some shows in that way. So to take half of the group to where we need to go next, there's some help that we need in that in that and that way.

[00:42:46] And so that's what kind of getting cultivated behind the scenes right now. Who's the right person to come onboard and help us in that way? That's Kathryn the grape over here. Yes. And and I'm working with other artists. So we've got you know, we've got this another young woman who is on my label right now who who is living with a rare disease. And we're her name's Michelle Hopkins. She was. She sang lead on our Hero song, one of the songs that you mentioned when you first started about how I do work with nonprofits. And, you know, I met her through the National NPF Society, an organization that helps raise awareness for. And P.S. Amale and some other rare diseases. So we're doing an album for her right now. And getting that out in 2020.

[00:43:35] And then also we've got a lot of stuff happening with the ripple effect brand. So there's just a lot happening now under the umbrella. And so it's like I don't know how to explain it other than, you know, when you see someone like Tyler Perry. Right. Tyler Perry opened up the studio in Atlanta. And I kind of have this basket of inspiring people that I would kind of carry around Dre. And I was like Tyler Perry and Baskette, because he's doing exactly what he has done with his with his media over the last 20 years is exactly the vision, similar vision for what I have with what what we're going to do it. Candan Limited with Kathryn the Great. With all these other pieces of the puzzle that we have and the same way that Oprah did it with Harpo Productions. So and everything takes time. And so we have some very defined goals for each of these segments on on the car. But not necessarily going like this has to happen here. This has to happen there. Because if you would if you know, when I started out this year, I had some defined goals and we already blew them out of the water. And I'm like, this is so exciting. So just taking shape and they're moving. And, you know, I plan on on on writing writing this up. This is what I do. This is kind of like I have no intention of ever selling. I've no intention of. I don't have any desire to like, you know, I hear a lot of people like I want to be an entrepreneur fro this company and sell it. I have no desire whatsoever to do that at all. This is this is who I am.

[00:45:07] Everything I am coming to this company, you know, and and that's that's what I want for the next, you know, 40 years of my life.

[00:45:17] Yeah. Absolutely. That's exciting. I mean, when you have something that answer your forever home, when you have something that you don't ever want to leave, it's exciting because I think that, you know, you're on that.

[00:45:29] You're on that for the ride, Eminence. It truly can take form. You know, when there isn't a price tag attached to something, it really becomes a different endeavor, particularly when it's a work and passion mix together. I want to wrap up with asking you if you came across a young woman or non binary, pretty much anyone other than a white man, and they came up to you and they said, listen, I got my degree in communications. I've kind of played around in a bunch of the different hospitality and even some corporate headhunting world. And I'm going to go out on my own now. And what I want to kind of unleash this artist within and explore myself and start my own my own agency. What would be the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual?

[00:46:18] They'll be great. I would assume I would say, number one. Give yourself time. No, everything is about you need to give yourself time for things to grow. You know, you don't become a fully bloomed garden, you know, within a month. You have to give yourself time to grow. I also would advise people to have another. Complimenting during the revenue for yourself.

[00:46:49] That you that you have, you know, sometimes I feel like I've got to focus only here. But if you're not seat, if you're not having revenue coming in. You need to give yourself time to grow, to grow and create revenue within your company. And so that you're okay having something else going on. I fully believe that everything I've ever done, I've always had multiple streams of revenue coming in. Until until art or multiple things happening. And I think that's what I've observed lately. Some people who don't think that they they are focusing on some people who have had tremendous success. And look at me. I'm influencing. I get this you know, this thing, this one thing. But they're not really sharing like, hey, but I have to be seven other things to help feed this. So I suggest that especially for somebody who is is is young. Like when I first started my career and I was growing up growing it, you know, I was serving tables for the first nine months till I got my first commission check. And my second year doing that, I was making six figures. So I'm proud of that. I'm proud that I stuck it out and knew that I could be I could I could have I could achieve those financial goals, the sales goals. And there but if I didn't have something else kind of helping me pay for my everyday life, then I probably wouldn't have stuck it out. I would have gone and gotten something different, and I never would have achieved those goals. So give yourself time. Allow yourself the opportunity to have other streams of revenue as well. And number three, I would say focus on being inspired by people who have loved who are doing what you want to do that have longevity in their career. And what I mean by that is. People who have who have demonstrated. Have demonstrated that they have that they've kind of held a steady line in their career. We're seeing a lot of people who are, quote unquote, influencers. I think that's the weirdest thing I'll be going to get.

[00:48:58] The weird thing right now. But that have, like, you know, 12 months of experience in the in the business world. Right. Yeah. So that's cool and all.

[00:49:09] But I love to people that I want to emulate a life in your professional life, the way you see some of your heroes and heroes. Right. And so to have some other influences, what is it that you're watching and observing? Like someone like an Oprah, let's say. Right. Or a Marianne Williamson. I love following some really wonderful women who've had long careers of being change makers on our planet that I don't necessarily touch. But then I also have some women in my life who have demonstrated, hey, I've I've I've read in the ways and the peaks and the valleys. And this is how you get through it, because if you have a mentor who has never, ever dug himself out of a valley, when you're in the valley, they probably can't help you authentically.

[00:49:59] Least that's my opinion. Absolutely. And and modeling yourself after someone who hasn't had a trajectory is dangerous.

[00:50:07] It's very face value, right? Absolutely.

[00:50:12] And I think people who are successful, like people who who have ridden those waves, you know, are success. Somebody who has that heart for helping other people.

[00:50:22] They're going to encourage you. They're going to help you be a beautiful life that you are. And they're going to help you draw that out for yourself and give you kind of some steam to keep moving without being a part of what you need to be. Without without being part of your train. They can inspire. And even from a distance.

[00:50:41] Absolutely. I like it. I like those three pieces. Give yourself time.

[00:50:45] Allow for another stream of revenue to keep the lights on and focus on being inspired by people who've been doing what you want to do for a lengthy period of time. I think those those are really crucial and unique. I haven't heard those pieces from anybody else. I appreciate that. We're all out of time today. But I do want to say, Kathryn. I will. We'll circle back around within a year and I'll try and convince you to talk with us again and find out where Kathryn the Grape is at as well as, you know, the merchandizing and everything else. Because I love what you're doing. And I think that it's. You're so prolific and it's so exciting to kind of drop back in and see what your landscape looks like again. Thank you so much for meeting with us today.

[00:51:27] Absolutely. Thank you so much. I appreciate your your podcast and your willingness to put messages out into the world to help others.

[00:51:35] Absolutely. I'm positive this will be a great one, too. I know there's going to be a lot of people in our audience who benefit from it. And happy anniversary in a couple of months to Candan Unlimited. You guys coming in on a decade?

[00:51:47] That's so awesome. I love. Very exciting. Yeah.

[00:51:51] I want to end with one of my most favorite things that you said, and I'll quote you back to you. You said, I thrive in an unlimited possibility space. And I think that that there's nothing more true about her story and what you've said about yourself. My love that. And and I really do appreciate you sharing your story. And I'll I'll circle back around. I'll convince you to talk with us again.

[00:52:13] Thanks for everything. Thanks very much. And for everyone listening. Thank you so much for giving us your time today.

[00:52:19] And until I speak with you again, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.

View Details

Interview with Cassie Carlisle: Emmy Award-winning reporter at KGTV in San Diego.

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it. Histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company Web site. Wild Ducks agency. That's w i. L. D e. Dot Agency or my personal Web site. Patricia. Kathleen. Dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.

[00:01:29] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Cassie Carlisle.

[00:01:35] Is an award winning reporter at KGTV in San Diego. Welcome, Cassie.

[00:01:42] Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:44] Absolutely, I am excited to have you on, Cassie. You are one of the first members of the press that we have spoken to and a lot of people in our audience reach out and really want to unpack what we're doing. What you've done with your your story. And I'm just kind of what roles in the media look like for everyone listening. I'm going to give you a bio on Cassie. But before that, a quick roadmap of today's podcast. We are going to it's going to follow the same trajectory as all of these interviews with founders and entrepreneurs and people in business across all industries that we're doing with Patricia Kathleen Podcast's. We're going to talk about Cassie's academic background and early professional life, and then we'll turn straight towards where her work with KGTV and we'll go through the logistics of that, as well as some of the particulars as they pretend to Cassie and her career in particular. Then we're going to turn our attention towards goals that Cassie has for the next few years regarding her career and other endeavors that she is involved with. We will wrap everything up with advice that Cassie may have for some of those of you looking to emulate what she's done or get involved with her today. So a quick bio on Cassie. As a journalist, Cassie has covered stories that range from major crime scenes and snowstorms to hanging out with the Globetrotters while working at Scripps affiliate W. M a r. She created the segment made in Maryland highlighting unsung trades. Cassie has also worked in Bakersfield as an anchor and life desk reporter at Katie R o. Cassie got her hands on almost every job, trying out whether casting sports, anchoring, producing and editing. She won an Emmy with the 11:00 a.m. team leading the coverage in the Highway 58 mudslide outside of work. Cassie loves most outside activities hiking, boating and maybe soon surfing. She was a gymnast as a child, winning a bronze medal in the California State Games. Cassie feels fulfilled being a journalist, hoping to help people through providing information. Her favorite quote is by Ralph Waldo Emerson. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm. I love that Cassie. And I'm so excited to kind of unpack some of that. You've really gotten like you're a teenager. You've done like a smorgasbord across a ton of media. And while I do want to get into your media and like did the really deep trenches of that experience, you've had your first drops into your academic background and early professional life following the.

[00:04:12] Absolutely. So while I went to the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at Arizona State, I do have to say I have to think Michaela Pereira, who was a producer and anchor at KTLA back when I was in eighth grade. She's the reason why I'm a reporter today, because she took the time to take my phone call when I was a little kid and tell me everything about this industry.

[00:04:35] So it's from that moment on that I've been pursuing this career and putting a camera in my hands and editing and trying out everything, if that's what you have to do as we evolve as an industry. Media has changed a lot in the last 20 years.

[00:04:51] Yeah. Was, you know, just funny. Just really quickly. I did the Walter Cronkite School. Yes. You just recently launched on PBS.

[00:04:58] West Coast Edition with that, like, they have a lot of really prominent things still coming out of that particular branch at LSU. Was it like that when you were obtaining your degree there?

[00:05:10] Yes, we were so lucky. It was incredible when I toured the school with my father and he asked the dean at the time, we found out that my freshman year I could get my hands on the camera. So growing up in that school, my junior and senior year, I was fortunate enough to be a part of the Walter Cronkite School's Cronkite News Watch program. So we were turning stories every day, just like a normal reporter, like we do like I do now. So it was absolutely incredible to have professors guiding us and helping us tell real stories, because the coolest part of being a student there is seeing your story picked up by one of the stations in the market as a student.

[00:05:53] So that was unreal.

[00:05:55] Yeah. Getting that workflow out into the market as you're still kind of learning about the industry, I think is what makes news and writing so cool for the potential, you know, a potentiality for students if they're driven enough. I think it's also kind of daunting for people who are still in the curriculum, but that is really cool. Did you know as you were obtaining the degree, were you always confirmed that you were going to go into media? Were you convinced that it was always going to be news or did you think about other outlets?

[00:06:23] I always wanted to do news because I grew up watching news in the morning. I always want to know what was going on. And I know that everybody's kind of changed the way that they obtain news these days. And sometimes still more difficult with social media. But I've always wanted to be the first person at the scene, find out the most information and and really be able to help people understand. I mean, when there's a fire, we're able to tell people, hey, you're home safe. Hey, you guys are going to start working with an insurance agency, you know? And those are critical moments as things are developing where we can provide information. So I have always been driven to be in news, not public relations or advertising or marketing or anything like that as well as neat as those companies are.

[00:07:07] Right. What did you some direction like as you were wrapping up your degree and leaving? Where did you go to you first? Do you go to the first job you could get? How did you, like, kind of develop your path?

[00:07:19] I actually got really lucky. I interviewed in Helena, Montana, for Helena. Yes. In Montana. And they were a teeny, teeny, tiny town. And it was snowing when I was there. I was like, oh, dear. I don't know if I could live in snow. And then I got a job offer over in Bakersfield, which was just an hour away from my hometown. And so I left at that opportunity. They had a pathway through the Cronkite school. So it was amazing to go straight from school to Scripps. And then everywhere else I've jumped to has been through the Scripps Company. So it's been a very easy path for me when it comes to being able to move around and experience different locations, because that was part of the reason I wanted to be a journalist, was to explore and have adventures, right?

[00:08:05] Absolutely.

[00:08:05] Now, did you set out knowing that you wanted to kind of sample or pepper into your your Rolodex, if you will, your skills, Rolodex, all these different areas, or did you do that because you weren't finding your niche?

[00:08:20] Oh, I knew that the more things I could do, the more valuable I'd be. Right. Oh, I want to make sure I was the most valuable piece of putty that they can put into any mold. So when I was at Chiaro, I had so much fun figuring out jumping in wherever they needed me, because in a small market, I mean, you really have about five people on a weekend show working double. It's really easy to plug in if somebody had to call out or have to go somewhere and just try out different jobs and really see kind of what called your name. And for me, it was still always recording. So I was just fortunate enough to be able to try being a sports anchor or try being a weathercaster and then get job offers in different realms. But I always want to stay true to reporting because that's just what things to me.

[00:09:06] Yeah. When did you when you landed KGTV?

[00:09:11] I just came here, goodness, about a year and a half ago. So it was me. I started my first day a little over a year ago. So it's been amazing. I serve now. Not well, but absolutely it feels very different from Baltimore.

[00:09:26] And I think that's the amazing thing is I've gotten to go to or have had the opportunity, rather, to go to these different towns and these different locations. I never would be otherwise in my life and really get on the ground floor and understand what builds communities and what makes them run. And it's just incredibly beautiful.

[00:09:48] Yeah, you've done it a lot of different outfits with different, like you say, varying different sizes of the shows that you were working with and things of that nature.

[00:09:55] I'm curious, do you find a continuity across a lot of the different projects and people that you've worked with as far as the ethos goes of the company in the news, or does it change from state to state, from city to city? Do some of the greater goals or the lenses that are applied to the news change? Can you speak to that through a through all of the different ones you've worked for?

[00:10:17] Absolutely. So I feel like the lens kind of changed on a national scale. So when I was in Baltimore, I read a little more threatened as a reporter. I had eggs thrown at me right before I did a live shot when I was standing in front of the police headquarters here. I'd gotten accosted by people who don't believe that I'm an unbiased reporter. And the thing that I have to say about that is I just wish that everyone gives others an opportunity to share what they're doing because it's not one sided. So many people come at the news and say, you hate or love Trump, you hate or love these policies. And this is politics where when you're a local reporter, your focus is the story, getting the facts and sharing that with others. And I know that that sounds extremely idealistic, but that's what I strive to do and what I believe I do every single day. So when someone can give me the opportunity to tell them, here's both sides. I'm just putting it out there. It really helps me because, I mean, again, I went to the Walter Cronkite gold journalism. We were instilled with just the facts, ma'am, and that's what I try to do.

[00:11:31] So you get in, you know, in your bio and some of it talks about, you know, mudslides and you mentioned, you know, whether or not this house is safe or whether or not they're calling the insurance company and the store is really meaning a lot to you.

[00:11:43] Have you cultivated a certain type of reporting or a story that you find is kind of your niche, that you very specifically are driven towards reporting or the human interest stories? What area do you find yourself more drawn to the further you get into your career?

[00:12:01] I really love stories that help people, and I know that that sounds kind of silly, but these days there's a lot of people who are struggling and they don't have the information or the connections to get what they need done done so. Perfect example was in Bakersfield, there was a 12 year old boy named Alex who had cancer since he was four. And we did a story on him. I was doing it all by myself. And because that's what happens when you're in a small market. And I went out Menaged family and he had no teeth because of all of the cancer treatment. It had made them fall out. So just by sharing his story, he actually had this incredible singing voice. And I really, you know, showed that in the beginning. At the end of the story, it was very poignant. So many people fell for him and felt for his family and just started doing this as one go on. He was brand new and he got cards from around the world because his story got picked up by so many people. And that is that is why I'm here, is to help somebody who doesn't have a voice.

[00:13:11] Yeah, absolutely. So do you even speaking back to, you know, having things thrown at you and saying that news changed on the national level and it feels like you were kind of tying in the tone of know recent politics and things of that nature.

[00:13:25] But I do know that the press, you know, there has been kind of a a voice about regarding a lot of the mainstream press feeling very unsafe. And for female reporters such as yourself or those who identify as female or non binary. I think the stakes are even a little bit higher because it was always, you know, an area where I really wasn't feeling safe. But do you feel like there's a tide or a tenant of change that could be happening? Or how is how are women reporters or women looking to go into news and reporting supposed to be addressing this kind of rising climate of of danger? You know, that seems to be encouraged sometimes, at least was in the last presidential campaign by the candidates. Right. And you feel like there's a climate there's a way that we can react as change. Or do you and your colleagues, as women reporters, you guys speak about how to react to that?

[00:14:22] Absolutely. I think it's about being smart. And I know that that sounds really straightforward and kind of silly, but you need to look at where you're going. If that neighborhood is a bad neighborhood, if you're going with somebody, because often we do because we have enough wonderful people in position to know you shouldn't go to certain areas by yourself. But you are your own advocate, right, in that sense. So it's so important for you to get your mind around the story and then around your safety. So it's all about changing your mindset as well. It's not just the job, it's also your safety. I actually just saw on Facebook, I don't know if you've seen this video. It's very upsetting where a woman is an MSJ reporter, which means multimedia journalist. So she's shooting her own stuff, doing interviews and editing herself. That's kind of what I do here in there. And she was hit over the head by a homeless person while she was carrying her tripod and turned away. So in those moments, we just have to be very much like police officers or anyone else is a first responder where you're headed on a swivel no matter where you're at. And I've been in a couple situations where I've been in NJ reporting by myself, and I've called my boss and said where I am and just kept them on the phone until I got to my car. They're extremely understanding, extremely supportive because they don't want anything to happen to you either. So I hope that that answers your question.

[00:15:48] Yeah, it does. And I think they're just opening the dialog. You and I talked off the record when I first pitched you to come on the series and speak with us about it.

[00:15:56] We had a little bit of a conversation regarding, you know, the danger of of women employees across all industries and anyone who's going into the field. And just this there was a concept early on, I think, with a younger and maybe not even younger, just less experienced reporter or anyone who's working for a company when you're were asked to go into certain neighborhoods. Is that right? Surely it would be safe because they're asking you to go there, you know, and then this this exemptive having to kind of provide self protection and self awareness because it's actually not in the company's best interest sometimes to think about your welfare or whether or not you should be taking someone else. And I'm wondering about and I think I'm interested in systems that are put into place, particularly across things like broadcasting and things like that and, you know, areas that can be more monitored as to the standards that, you know, that we use. And the news is hard because it's been disbanded and you've got a lot of, you know, different people doing the different kinds of reporting like this Facebook movement. You mentioned the digital DMM, Jay.

[00:17:05] Yet a multimedia journalist. Yeah, I think that point is so valid that systems need to be put in place. But I think it's as a female reporter, it's just creating that relationship with your bosses. And what the assignment desk, who generally knows where you're going and hopefully knows the area well enough so that you can be protected and you're not put in a compromising position.

[00:17:30] Yeah, absolutely. And I mean. And when. Because people are kind of outdoing their own stories that do get picked up. I think it's about kind of being aware yourself. Like you're saying, and putting some of this in order.

[00:17:41] How do you feel about the way that that news has kind of disbanded largely and gone with these, you know, M-m Jay reporters and different Teno people that are kind of picked up these these ad hoc reporters? Do you agree with it? Do you think that it's going to come back? I've talked to people that have said that it might come back into being more of an in-house umbrella eventually once media starts to kind of make sense all the way across the boards. Where do you where you forecast that?

[00:18:10] So that is the question I have asked every CEO I can get my hands on. All right.

[00:18:16] We're in the media in five years. Where do you see media in 10 years? And right now, a lot of people don't know because we're sticking to what we know right now. And that is changing so rapidly. So I see a lot more online content. I mean, you can see different companies like Disney just came out with Disney. Plus I see us having some sort of streaming. We already do have a lot of streaming that we're doing. So, I mean, you've got the impeachment proceedings going on right now. But our evening newscast, if it is if it's the impeachment proceeding, it's still going on. We'll still be live online and through the app so people can still watch it if they choose. So I feel like we are getting most of our audience from social media. So that would be Facebook. We don't really have as much of a hold and Instagram, which is where a lot of people have moved. And I think that there will be a lot of figuring out to do in that realm as well. It's just also kind of figuring out what the tide is, because Facebook was really popular and then it kind of waned a little bit. And then Instagram has become the big cheese in that realm. So I think it's going to be I don't think we're going to have the old days ever again of two man or three man crews going out. There used to be a three man or four man crew that would go out for a live shot. You'd have an audio guy, maybe a field producer, a videographer and a reporter. That's national status. And on the local TV level, I think that we're just going to get smaller. We're not going to have many stations and that's going to have pros and cons. I think people eventually, 10 years down the line, are going to realize the true value of news when it starts dissipating. So it's going to be a huge gamble to stay active. Still trying to provide that information that people find useful and find an audience who want to use it.

[00:20:06] Yeah. And I mean, my mind tends to tangent when I play around with some of those, you know, potential outcomes and they goes towards. Right. Hit like A Clockwork Orange moment. And then you can also, I can picture coming to completely full circle and coming back into that embodiment of, you know, trusting establishments and institutions that actually up until now have all. But as a woman, I feel like kind of betrayed me.

[00:20:31] You know, in a certain degree. And I kind of want to shift our focus for a second towards that realm. And you may not have a story here or anything to comment, but I am always curious. And you you've come up in the industry, you've you've gone to school for and I'm wondering if there's a market difference between your career and any of those of your male counterparts. You know, we've kind of touched on this issue of like, well, it's it was horribly dangerous to go into that area and I needed to call someone to get them on the phone. But can you cite over particularly because you're the span of what you've done thus far has come up throughout the, you know, me to burst open and prior to that. You've kind of you've got a leg on either side, if you will, of what and what could be seen as this very monumental time in history. And I'm wondering if you can kind of speak to the differences that were before or the change of the voices now or any of those things that are kind of very key in your career right now.

[00:21:30] In my career, I haven't necessarily seen a ton of the media movement inside. I've seen a lot of it outside. We've covered it a time. I think more people are speaking out now because they feel empowered, too, and they feel like someone will actually listen. But inside the news business, I have been extremely fortunate where every counterpart I've ever had is always treated me with respect. So, I mean, I'm sure that there are stories out there, but I'm very, very thankful that I don't have one.

[00:22:03] Yeah, absolutely. And I've talked to a lot of people who have experienced the same. They're like, it's cut. We're covering it. We know it. We're speaking to people. But I have not been one of those, you know, unfortunate people. And that's that's great, too. I think it's it's important to kind of know and put out there and realize and have it on the record because it could be a sign of early change. You know, there's a lot of people who feel like there's a lot of talk and very little change actually being implement implemented or worse yet, a backlash, which is, you know, the the the Tony Robbins kind of, you know, speaking with people that are too terrified to deal with women because they don't want to have any issues going forward and victimizing the victim, victim and things of that nature. But it's good to, I think, kind of get some stories out there where people are fortunate enough not to have had some egregious major incident happen, especially since you are covering a lot of them.

[00:22:56] I think there has been a lot of change, though. I think that human resources. I think they've gone through a change as well when it comes to how to handle those situations. And I think that people, again, are going a little bit more frequently to speak on those issues.

[00:23:15] Yes. I think there has been can can happen enough. Definitely. I hope there is change. And there have been a lot there's an advent of new industry in, you know, in corporate business, building and making and, you know, things like emotional intelligence and discovering that the job landscape has really opened up under. I believe, some of the tutelage of the aftermath of Neetu and things like that. But I definitely think that there is a I know that there's a lot of work yet to be done, but it's good to hear people say occasionally that they haven't had, you know, major moments, at least with the the difficulties that we had just learned about kind of being oppressive for so many women and non Byner individuals. I'm wondering what some of the greatest difficulties for you have been thus far in your career? Was it was it job hunting, scouting and jumping from different places, making yourself available? What have been your difficulties thus far?

[00:24:14] The biggest challenge and anyone who's been a reporter who's jumped from market to market can tell you this going to a new place, a brand new place. You've never been you don't know anyone. You don't know a soul and you don't know much about the city. It's so hard to get grounded and make friends and find your. What do we call it? You you girl.

[00:24:42] Describe your tribe.

[00:24:44] Thank you. And going and picking up and moving again. It's just it's really hard to find your tribe. Be supportive of yourself. It was a huge learning experience for me about myself and finding myself, because that's really how you find yourself. You go somewhere by yourself and you kind of are open to all these different facets. Yeah, that makes any sense.

[00:25:12] Absolutely. Did you find that social media was any help with that? Did you ever find that we'll meet ups or anything like that, or was it always just still a little jarring?

[00:25:22] You know, I I was always kind of nervous to do something like that. I know that that sounds silly, cause instead what I did when I joined the junior league and I joined in Bakersfield and then transferred over to Baltimore and then transferred over here. And that was a huge help, women helping women in community. And it was just really nice to meet other women who are professional and are college educated and just had a lot in common. So that was everything to me in Bakersfield. I actually felt like I was home there.

[00:25:55] Yeah. Let me unpack that a little bit. Can you tell us what Junior League is and kind of about the mentorship model that you do with that?

[00:26:03] Yes, I mean, it is an organization of women helping women. So we do training as well as we help others in the community. I mean, in Bakersfield, they created the zoo out there, which was incredible. In Baltimore, they have a wonderful. I think it's called the wise penny. Sorry. It's been a few years where they so partially used clothing to help, you know, underserved women out here we have today, which is transition age, foster youth. And it's just so great to be able to mentor other women in the community and help them find a place. Really? You know, when it comes to volunteerism and then growing themselves.

[00:26:46] Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that it's a it's a direct outlet. Like you're saying, and it helps you put people. I mean, it's an incredible way to socially network. Right. To contribute to a little bit and find people who are involved in what you want to do. So you get involved with it in Bakersfield. And then did you did you continue being involved with it? And when you came to San Diego?

[00:27:07] Yes, absolutely, I'm actually. We had a training tonight for the new girl that are coming into the league. So it's very exciting to see people come in and be excited and want to volunteer. I love it.

[00:27:20] Absolutely. That's a cool way to do it as well. And a cool way to meet people, as you're saying, when you when you have a job that moves you from place to place.

[00:27:28] I was speaking to write this the other day who got her bearings in the army, which had more of a camaraderie and a family build. And then she was a cosmetic nurse. And then she did time on the burn ward as well in the children's hospital here. And she said that her biggest struggle wasn't the know. She had these very high intensive jobs and her biggest trouble wasn't that what exactly we're talking about? It's like reacclimated to these social environments that she would drop into because she was this kind of R.N. for hire. So she had these six month stints everywhere she went. And she said it was just nice, you know, trying to really find two in the process of knowing one surroundings. And I just as naively asked her what I asked you. I thought, you know, what's this social totally help with that. She said, no, it doesn't. On that level, she felt like social media kept her connected globally with her friends, but not actually to develop a microcosm of a community within the places that she was landing. So it's interesting that that obviously there is going to be a lot of jobs that have that in common with one another. Looking forward, what do you have? Like do you have goals with what you're doing, a KGTV in San Diego or just as a media professional in general? You know, is this multimedia journalist, you have future goals that you want to see yourself kind of uncover, or are you just moving along the trajectory? Is it set in front of you through KGTV?

[00:28:49] I would love to set roots here and build and continue being a reporter and growing my sources. And just what I can tell in the community and eventually I would really love to make something bigger. I mean, I have a couple of leadership positions currently, and I would just love to see where that takes me and what opportunities open up. And I know that that sounds really vague, but we've got to be careful right now.

[00:29:18] Now it is. Everyone's got to be careful when you're referring to anything specifically. But that does make sense in setting in routes and dealing with sources.

[00:29:25] You know, that's it. And that's a long game, right? That's like something always out over 20 years. So I respect that process.

[00:29:35] Thank you. Well, it's amazing when you when you foster a relationship with a source and you start learning more. There's just so much more that we can talk about. I feel like in this day and age, everything's covered up under so much red tape that it's very difficult to do real investigative journalism. But once you create those relationships and the door would open up, there's ways that we can help, you know, and really start to monitor things that aren't necessarily correct or the way that they should be running.

[00:30:06] Right. So it's important.

[00:30:07] Absolutely. What do you think some of the like the core tenants, like the ethos of KGTV are that you have in common with. Is there Ed, is there kind of like in an essence that happens at the station that you kind of continue on with with your career? Or is there like a divergence? Can you speak to any issues like the environment behind the scenes at K.g?

[00:30:32] We have. It's so funny that you ask that, because since the first day I walked into the building, I have known that this is where I'm supposed to be. It is so. And I'm sorry. I know this sounds so tremendously dramatic, but it's there is so many leaders. There's so many people who are just so good at their job and they're so creative. I am so lucky to work with the people I work with. When you walk in. You see Emmys on celebrity guests and different awards. And it's just incredible, the talented people. I am fortunate enough to be a mom and to learn from. I think that's the best thing about our station, is I can go up to anyone and say, hey, I love how you did this. How did you do it? Can you teach me? How did you kind of get someone to open up on this question? You know, it's just a huge learning environment, a huge growing environment. And we have some incredible leaders who really want everybody to grow. It's it's very supportive, which is huge and is huge.

[00:31:34] And a little rare sometimes, I think. Oh, very brave. Yeah. A ton of news rooms, but in a lot of environments in general. In business, I think that that's rare, you know, finding people who are really good.

[00:31:45] They do. That's a little bit of a search. But that can be done by finding people who are good at what they do. And we'll walk you through it. You know, that's lovely. Absolutely. So if you were running into somebody tomorrow who was just coming out of you, the Cronkite school, and just they said, listen, I'm gonna get you no neck deep into news and I can't wait, I'm going to learn everything I can. What are the three pieces of advice you would give her?

[00:32:14] Three pieces of advice I would give her. What would I want to know at that time? I was so lucky when I interviewed with McKillip her when I was in eighth grade because she told me everything I need to know. It's going to be hard. You're going to work weekends and holidays, not gonna get paid a ton. A lot of people think we get paid a ton and we make up people. Not true. But you know what? We do love what we do. And when we get to cover some really neat things and go on some extreme experiences like Meghan Perry, our meteorologists got to fly with the Blue Angels. I'm waiting for my turn in the seat. Yeah. And I'm hoping for it. I mean, you read that I got to hang out with the Globetrotters. They were so nice and so funny. Oh, my goodness. And it'll be it'll be hard because sometimes you're going to be talking to people on their worst days. I cannot tell you how many mothers I've interviewed who've lost their children and how horribly upsetting and traumatic that is. But in a way, we're kind of therapists and we can try and help them a little bit and maybe give them some solace that the memory of their child will live on and our peace as brief as it is. I would also say keep trying. Don't give up, because things will seem hard in a moment. But that's what it is. It's just a moment. So always continue. Striving and find what makes you happy, find your niche and own it and never stop working hard to get better because that's what's going to keep you valuable is your drive to continue to work hard.

[00:33:47] Nice. So it's going to be hard. Discover new things.

[00:33:53] You're going to discover new things and do great things. Keep trying. Things are hard in the moment. Find your niche and persevere.

[00:34:00] I like it. Yep.

[00:34:01] That's very cool. Have a great pieces of advice. I love that. Well, we are all out of time. But Cassie, I want to say thank you so much.

[00:34:10] I've got you in the middle of a cold in the middle of a train in San Diego. And I know you're horribly busy. And I just want to say dry. You drive by. All three of those things for meaninglessly.

[00:34:21] Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.

[00:34:24] Thank you so much. And for everyone listening, thank you so much for your time until you speak again. Remember to always bet on yourself. Slaínte.

View Details

Interview with Stephanie Su: Founder & Designer of Persu Collection, a company producing functional bags created for modern-day hustlers, fitness lovers, and wanderlusters. (www.persucollection.com)

View Details

Interview with Julie C. Seal-Gaustad: CEO & Founder, Mirus Promotions, Inc. Mirus Promotions is an award-winning, nationwide level, field marketing company representing over 100 different brands and providing thousands of jobs each year. (miruspromotions.com/)

View Details

Interview with Jessica Joines: Holistic executive coach and author of Dare to Believe. Jessica is a keynote speaker, on-air host, author and coach with a single mission: To help people step into the most expanded state of their soul purpose. (jessicajoines.com)

View Details

Interview with Dawn Ressel: Founder of Aurora Love. Aurora Love provides meditation coaching and metaphysical healing and guidance under the practice of it's founder Dawn Ressel. Dawn helps her clients have a greater sense of peace, empowerment, and spiritual connection. She is certified with the Modern Mystery School. (www.auroralove.life/)

View Details

Interview with Annie Morhauser: Founder of Annieglass. Annieglass creates handcrafted glass sculptural decor and dinnerware. Sustainably handcrafted in California, Annieglass incorporates a myriad of designs and products including lines with precious metals and upcycled glass and materials in their collection. Sold all over the world and known for her iconic aesthetic, Annieglass is a representation of the artist herself. (https://annieglass.com/)

View Details

Interview with Susanna Peredo-Swap: Founder & Executive Director at Vanguard Culture. Vanguard Culture is an inclusive 501(c)3 nonprofit dedicated to advancing San Diego’s Creative Industries. We provide quality arts journalism, cutting edge events, and professional development that create arts jobs, bring diverse communities together and inspire collaboration among the visual, performing, and culinary arts. (https://vanguardculture.org)

View Details

Interview with Shairi Engle: Award-winning Playwright & Freelance writer. Shairi won the 2019 Bridge Award with her play: TAMPONS, DEAD DOGS, AND OTHER DISPOSABLE THINGS. (http://shairiengle.com/)

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company website Wild Dot Agency. That's w i l d dot agency or my personal website. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:25][77.9]

[00:01:29] Hi, everyone, and welcome back, this is your host, Patricia, and today I am sitting down with Shairi Engle. Shairi is a playwright, freelance writer and teaching artist with a literary nonprofit. So say we all welcome Shairi. [00:01:44][14.7]

[00:01:45] Hi, how are you? [00:01:46][0.8]

[00:01:46] I am so excited to have you on today. For those of you listening, I attended a reading of Shari's play that we will get into today entitled Tampons, Dead Dogs and Other Disposable Things at La Hoya Playhouse in October. Twenty fifth of this year, twenty nineteen. And I reached out and convinced her to speak with us today. I'm so excited to get into everything with you. Shairi for everyone listening, I'm going to give you a quick buy a roadmap of today's podcast which follows our traditional roadmap for this series. And then I will give you a quick bio of Shairi and then we will start with peppering her with questions. The roadmap of today's podcast will be an academic background and early professional life of Shairi. And then we'll turn to unpacking some of her professional and personal story, which is a really diversified and dynamic story. Then we'll turn to discussing specifically her play tampons, dead dogs and other disposable things, which I attended a reading to. And I have a myriad of questions for her about. And then we will shift our focus towards goals that she may have for more plays, books, freelance writing, brand expansion, all of those things over the next three years. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice that she has for those who are looking to get involved with Shairi, kind of mirror what she's done with her history and all of that good stuff. So a quick bio on Shairi herself. Shairi Angle is a teaching artist with the literary nonprofit. So Say We are an organization helping individuals tell their true stories. Shairi tells her own stories while providing while provided any variation of seasonal coffee drink. She's also a member of La Hoya Playhouse's Gang of veteran playwrights, a group of writers fuzed by their shared love of cheese and crackers. Shery won the twenty nineteen bridge award with her interestingly titled Play Tampon, Dead Dogs and Other Disposable Things Afraid. This makes her sound as though she hates canines. You can find her awkwardly stopping strangers on the street to pet their dogs. Shairi also created the Fingerprint Project, a community art project addressing the science surrounding sexual violence. This project inspired her new podcast, the loudest, softest sound and outlet for the secrets that need to be heard or told while providing the option of hiding storytellers identities coming out in January 20. Twenty. Having discovered her own voice through the arts, Shari's work is driven by her deep personal understanding that storytelling can save lives. For more information on her podcast stories or events, visit Shairi and Gold dot com. [00:04:30][163.4]

[00:04:30] That is s h a i. R i e n g l e dot com. [00:04:36][6.0]

[00:04:37] So sorry. I am so excited to kind of get into everything. I look forward to listening in as much as you're providing them with the loudest, softest sound. I know that's a line from your play, which I really like. Your podcast series sounds amazing. I'll be looking for that in January. Twenty twenty. But before we get into all of that, can you drop us into your academic background and early professional life? [00:05:00][23.4]

[00:05:02] Oh, what a twisted road this has been. I don't think so. I, I have never I've never followed a traditional academic path. I grew up in a household that didn't necessarily support my continued education. And but I always kind of had this thing inside of me that knew that I was searching for something I didn't know. So I have a lot of classes under my belt and I only just received my bachelor's degree about five years ago. And regulations. Yeah, thank you. But even even that wasn't really the destination. [00:05:41][38.9]

[00:05:43] What really happened? My real education, I think, came through just a series of experiences. I dropped out of college when I was 18. I had my son Treston, and after I worked at a factory in the south, I worked at a subway making sandwiches. And after a while I just started to see my future kind of closing in on me and not really knowing where I was headed. I decided to join the Air Force and specifically become the air traffic controller and the thing that that provided. [00:06:18][35.4]

[00:06:20] Was this idea that I was very capable of challenging environment, of doing things that scared me, and so I spent six years in the Air Force and the night I separated honorably and came back to San Diego and. I took an office job and I was working in a cubicle, and that's very, very unsatisfying work. [00:06:50][29.7]

[00:06:51] And then. [00:06:51][0.2]

[00:06:53] I kind of just one of those moments that you hear about, like the cliche midlife crisis where you realize that. Where you're headed is just straight to your grave, and I was at a dinner party. [00:07:09][15.6]

[00:07:09] I think that I'm going to be turning thirty seven that year and I've been replaying in my head all of these different things that I was missing out of my life. And somebody mentioned that I was actually turning thirty six, not turning thirty seven. And I've got my hands underneath the dinner table using my fingers to count all of the years that I've been alive. And it dawned on me that I had a whole extra year. And so I decided to quit my job and go back to school for something that was a little bit more interesting. And I dubbed it my ghimire. So I like that. So I went back to it's a small private arts college here in San Diego. And it wasn't necessarily the work that inspired me so much as the people that I was introduced to. And the dean, I got the chance to know her pretty well, that she actually asked me to apply for an internship at the San Diego Repertory Theater as a graphic designer. And so I applied and the first day of my internship was on my birthday. [00:08:21][71.5]

[00:08:22] And so I decided to give a year had been such a successful year for me. I was going to continue this pattern for the rest of my life. [00:08:28][5.5]

[00:08:29] So I decided there that I would start thinning my years and I would come up with a series of tests to kind of challenge myself to grow and whatever specific area was the theme that year. And so that first year, it was the year of my voice. And this was in the year. Yeah. And and so I started at San Diego Repertory Theater, and it was the first time that I had read a play and had a chance to see how they are developed. [00:09:00][31.3]

[00:09:01] And my eyes were just wide open and I fell in love instantly. I love the collaboration and the just. [00:09:13][11.3]

[00:09:15] The amazing ability to tell powerful stories, so I went through the year of my voice, but during that year. [00:09:25][9.5]

[00:09:26] I think the biggest moment in terms of education was that I had stumbled upon a storytelling event here in San Diego, so say we all. [00:09:37][10.3]

[00:09:38] Yeah, it's a little dove bar in South Park, a small neighborhood and cash only and go in and they select. [00:09:46][8.7]

[00:09:49] About seven or 10 people to tell their stories on the last Thursday of every month. And if your story is selected, they provide you writing coaches and performance coaches to help you build your story and tell the what you need to tell. [00:10:03][14.8]

[00:10:05] And so I am. [00:10:05][1.0]

[00:10:07] I decided that one of my tasks for the year of my voice was to tell my very first difficult story. And so I, I wrote it and it was selected. And then for a month, I worked on my voice and prepared myself to stand in front of a microphone in front of strangers to tell a very difficult truth. [00:10:33][25.1]

[00:10:34] And while this was considered a short story by you, what kind of a format was it written in a monologue? [00:10:41][6.7]

[00:10:43] They're all true stories, kind of a requirement, although even that sometimes of a coach is to help you in order to prepare for the reading of the story. [00:10:56][13.0]

[00:10:56] Right. And so, yeah. So I was actually serendipitously assigns a writing coach who's an amazing director and performer here in San Diego, who heads up Intermission Productions and. She she was the perfect person to help me tell this story. It was a story about me confronting my abuser when I was in my early 20s, a man who had tormented me from the age of eight until I was 15. And it was the first time that I had ever said the words out loud to anybody other than very close friends and family. [00:11:38][41.9]

[00:11:40] And it was terrifying. Terrified. And what happened after that? [00:11:49][8.1]

[00:11:52] Was pretty phenomenal. As soon as I left the stage, I felt completely numb. And. Didn't really process what had happened for me, it was the next morning. [00:12:04][12.4]

[00:12:06] It it just I just sensed it in my body, it wasn't that a weight had been lifted or anything like that, it was more of a sense of self and. And in the following weeks, I became more and more interested in this feeling that I had that was just kind of starting to blossom and so. [00:12:29][23.3]

[00:12:31] That was when I started the fingerprint project. I had been in my garage painting and maybe had a couple of glasses of wine that I had been leaving my fingerprint on a canvas. And I noticed how the first fingerprint was this bright red print. [00:12:50][18.9]

[00:12:50] And then as it as I kept marking my finger on the canvas, it just dissipated the paint. [00:12:57][7.2]

[00:12:59] And in the way that I first saw it, it looked almost like a sound wave with that first initial print thing, very strong and angry and loud. [00:13:08][8.9]

[00:13:08] And it just kind of echoed out from there and. [00:13:11][2.8]

[00:13:13] To me, it looks like what had been going on as soon as I was chosen for the story and started talking to people about this performance that I had ahead of me, people started telling me their own stories. [00:13:25][11.3]

[00:13:26] And it surprised me how many how many of us have experienced silence in a way where you are in a bubble and you don't feel like. Any other person has ever experienced. [00:13:43][16.7]

[00:13:46] This form of trauma and that you are alone and. [00:13:52][5.4]

[00:13:54] An oddball and your symptoms, your your fears, all of the things that kind of surface as a result of this need to stay hidden because you feel shame around them. [00:14:05][11.3]

[00:14:07] And. [00:14:07][0.0]

[00:14:10] Just understanding how many men and women are out there that have similar experiences. [00:14:16][6.3]

[00:14:18] It was very upsetting. But at the same time, I didn't understand why I had been so quiet for so long when there was this. The sense of relief of having been heard and. [00:14:35][16.5]

[00:14:38] And I just wanted to kind of continue that, so I quickly posted this event on Facebook where I decided that I was going to set this canvas up in a public spot and just invite anybody that had experienced. [00:14:53][15.1]

[00:14:56] Any type of violence to come and just leave a print on the board and I just stayed there all day at first time and a lot of people came up to ask what it was about. I had a chance to share my own story, but a lot of times. [00:15:13][17.3]

[00:15:16] People. [00:15:16][0.0]

[00:15:19] It seemed like they. They really. Needed something simple to break their own silence. And. So it was just really. A powerful, powerful thing to watch. [00:15:37][17.6]

[00:15:39] Absolutely. [00:15:39][0.0]

[00:15:40] And as you're saying this, it's interesting and I know that this is kind of the trajectory and the road that is is leading us towards your play, but kind of discussing this abusive silence that prevents self truth, that heals victims from entering into the dialog is reminiscent for me of how your main character repeatedly is what we'll get into the structure of the play, but repeatedly silencing herself from actually getting into the story. [00:16:16][36.4]

[00:16:17] I mean, the majority of the play is with her therapist talking about how, oh, I know you want me to get into it, but I don't even know I need to. It's just this constant diatribes and this is a play kind of unfolds under this avoiding of talking about the final the final point or the final action of the play. But it's interesting because it seems like a point of silence, too, that she's silencing herself or silencing moving back away. [00:16:44][27.1]

[00:16:44] And so you having this earlier prewriting the play experience of having a silence and then finally putting voice to what you had and then living in that reality, that truth that comes about when you actually put it out there in your voice in the universe, it sounds like it was kind of the birth place for some of the dialog that you wrote into tampons, dead dogs and other disposable things. Did you find your. [00:17:13][29.0]

[00:17:14] Well, first of all, did the story in the monologue format that you had at the cash only pub did that turn into tampons, which it's been shortened by the La Hoya Playhouse's tampons with tampons, dead dogs and other disposable things. Did that turn into that or was it a story from within that personal monologue that turned into tampons? [00:17:35][20.1]

[00:17:36] So what's really interesting is that I am in my path as a writer, and I think that this story is also it's not just talking about therapy. It's also talking about the journey that I've had to walk to get to myself as. As a more realized person, that story, the one that I told many years ago, and so Sabil, I actually just reread it not too long ago and it still gets to me. [00:18:11][35.2]

[00:18:13] It's not that is not the tampons and duduk story. [00:18:16][2.8]

[00:18:17] However, um, about a year ago, I had a table read and it was one of those table reads that I know a lot of writers go through where you walk away and you just question life itself and it. [00:18:34][16.8]

[00:18:36] It wasn't the story that I was trying to tell. There was there was, I think, a little bit too much dishonesty in it still. [00:18:43][6.8]

[00:18:44] And so I went home and I started pulling out my own therapy notebooks and all of my, you know, my work that I've done kind of processing my own personal history. [00:19:00][15.9]

[00:19:01] And I started pulling out details, the most difficult details and injecting them into. [00:19:08][7.5]

[00:19:10] The memory of the character in this play and an even still, when I when I hear or see certain gestures as we're working on this play, it's. [00:19:25][14.3]

[00:19:26] They're intense. Yeah, so it's. [00:19:30][4.1]

[00:19:32] But, you know, as I mentioned to you before, after after the reading, it's. It's not about trying to conquer my demons, it's about trying to kind of find. A realistic and honest way of residing alongside them and and keeping that the power dynamics where they should be. So, yeah, it's a. My own personal history is in there, but it's it's hidden where I don't think you can really see it. [00:20:07][34.6]

[00:20:08] However, if I may, the whole premise of the story came after the year of my voice was the year of my strength, and I went on a solo backpacking trip and it was some. [00:20:23][14.6]

[00:20:25] Again, just kind of going off of my gut instincts that I needed to do something and it. [00:20:34][8.6]

[00:20:35] That was inspired by a moment after a very intense period of therapy where I was sitting in my shower bawling my eyes out, it was that kind of cry where it just comes through, you know, it's like you're just throwing up and just feeling exhausted in my body and my spirit, my mind. [00:20:56][20.2]

[00:20:57] And I all of a sudden just remembered this moment when I had been a little girl. [00:21:06][8.1]

[00:21:07] I I grew up on the East Coast with my mother and my stepfather, who happens to be a Baptist preacher who was my abuser, and my father lived out here on the West Coast and we would spend our summers with my father. And it was just great break from all of the chaos that was going on at home. [00:21:27][20.1]

[00:21:28] Yeah, and. [00:21:29][0.9]

[00:21:31] My father really loved the outdoors, and so we were up in Yosemite hiking and I have this very vivid memory of hiking up the trail ahead of my dad and yelling after me saying, look at that girl, go look how strong she is. [00:21:48][17.1]

[00:21:49] And I remember that feeling that I had this that little girl and. That day in the shower, I was thinking about that, and it had occurred to me that she kept going with the trail and I had veered off into the woods and I was suddenly overcome with this great urge to go catch up to her. [00:22:11][22.2]

[00:22:12] And I needed to physically close that metaphor. So that's when I decided that I was going to go on my solo backpacking trip. And and I did and and as I was driving up the three ninety five, I didn't go to Alaska, I went to a just outside of Bishop Lake Sabrina and we can hike up into the mountains from there. [00:22:38][25.3]

[00:22:39] But on the way up, I was listening to this podcast and I don't remember what the story was about, but it was this older gentleman that said in order to get anything, you have to give something up. And for whatever reason, the whole time I was hiking up a steep climb, it just kept repeating over and over. They had to get something up. [00:23:01][21.8]

[00:23:01] Do you agree with it? I do, and I don't. [00:23:04][3.1]

[00:23:05] I think that sometimes there are things that pop into our head and stick with us and they serve a purpose. And, you know, but I don't necessarily think that that's always the case. [00:23:17][11.9]

[00:23:19] Yeah, I think it's actually and I think I could spend some time with it and massage it and make it pretty and make it something that I agreed with. [00:23:26][7.5]

[00:23:26] But the first my first impulse when I heard that was that's what I've been told as a woman since the day I could leave the house was that I had to give something if I was to get anything in this world and preferably give more than I get. That was the consensus of the world that I walked into. And so part of me, you describing an old man on the podcast, kind of proffering that up. I'm like an old man, have been telling me that for the past forty two years and moment there. But I think I could also make it pretty. I just think it's an interesting thing to use as a mantra as you're hiking up a trail. Yeah. Yeah. What's your relationship with that statement as it was going through your head? [00:24:05][38.6]

[00:24:07] I felt like I was I was carrying something with me that I've had this thing inside of me that I've wanted to purge. And at that time, I had this idea that I could purge it because I think a lot of my therapy was based around, you know, getting rid of my symptoms, getting rid of my pain as if it's somehow not a part of me. And and that's been my journey over the last few years, is trying to figure out what really is the deal with. With the part of me that exists with this experience and the part of me that this idea of myself without that experience and you know, it's funny, can I digress just a little bit? Yeah, please. You said something. So just as last year, speaking of men kind of having conversations with you and giving you advice. [00:25:02][55.3]

[00:25:04] Yeah. [00:25:04][0.0]

[00:25:05] So after I won this award was you know, I had a lot of people in my ear about what I should or should not do now that I'm officially a playwright of. [00:25:18][13.0]

[00:25:20] This one particular person. A gentleman whose intentions, I think were very, very good. [00:25:28][7.5]

[00:25:28] I know that they're very good, but he sat down and sat me down and wanted to hear my whole story because he has this idea that I have this, you know, a powerful story that needs to be heard, yadda, yadda, yadda. And so I tell him I tell him my experience growing up and just how I come to myself as I know myself right now. [00:25:52][23.7]

[00:25:53] And, um, and after I get done telling this story. He says that's that's a really powerful and amazing tale. [00:26:03][10.3]

[00:26:05] But the thing I think you need to work on is telling your story from a place of power, you're still telling your story coming from a place of something broken. [00:26:15][9.9]

[00:26:18] And at the time, I just sat there just listening to him, and that one sat with me for quite a few days and. [00:26:25][7.7]

[00:26:27] And I could sense in my gut that it just didn't fit what he said, well, I just thought I mean, it's remarkable that you met the owner of power and he got to show you exactly how you could use it and employ it, like who deemed this individual the decider of what power was or is and that you are not yourself in your own existence exhibiting power. [00:26:50][23.5]

[00:26:52] So definitely fantastic. [00:26:54][2.0]

[00:26:56] And the more I thought about it, the more I started to think I really think that it has to do with the fact that I was crying when I was telling my story, that I was showing my pain. And then just that week, I had been coaching a woman who is going to be telling her own personal story of pain. And she kept apologizing about crying or getting upset. And I stopped her. And you know why? [00:27:24][28.4]

[00:27:24] Why would you apologize for that? And this is a part of your story and this is a part of your truth and that right there. And and so that's how I kind of answered my own question. [00:27:36][11.5]

[00:27:38] And I think that, you know, fairly recently I have discovered that. [00:27:42][4.5]

[00:27:45] My vulnerability and my pain and my hurt over my experiences, sharing and being able to express that is is definitely a powerful act. [00:27:59][14.8]

[00:28:00] I find it to be the ultimate power, you know, having the courage and stamina to exhibit and then stand in the face of your own exhibition of any painful account that you've had is unnervingly hard for me to comprehend. [00:28:19][18.3]

[00:28:19] And I'm big on physical and emotional displays of power that are anything but that. So I'm very clear on the pillars that describe what power is on a very traditional masculine sense. And you kind of just captured what we were talking about prior in our pre production of this podcast. I told you that tampons, dead dogs and other disposable things were it was by far and I'm an avid theatergoer and I come from a family of writers and playwrights. And so I read a great deal in that area as well. But this is by far the most difficult production for me to. It was a reading. I can't imagine if it had been a play, but because I think my comfort level, I would have held my breath through some of it. But I am very rarely confronted with something that is both artistically moving and on a literature scale, enthusiastic and creative. And then also incredibly difficult to the point that I think about leaving and think I couldn't possibly and I just don't believe I told you before we started that I'm not sure that line even exists anymore. I think it's what made old writers so great sometimes with that that difficulty. And that's what it did for me. And what you just described, ultimate power or the power that you were receiving at that moment was being able to describe it and to honor it with the accompanying emotions that it had and then sit in the face of that. And I think that that's what we should immediately call up that gentleman and tell him that we've just discovered the true definition of power. And so he can now go forward and evangelize and really share the message that you are the one exhibiting the proper form of power, because it was it was incredibly powerful and daunting for me to. Sit through your reading. Not it's not the subject matter, it's not all of those things as women like we would be fools to be our friends, our sisters, our mothers, our cousins have all had trauma in that area. It's I think it was the truth. I think it was sitting with your character's truth was and this was kind of enumerated ironically by it's not, is it, Jack? Who's the male character? [00:30:40][140.6]

[00:30:42] Sorry, Jack is the character of Joe, that particular reader, that actor. He said afterwards that part of his his difficulty with the character was the evolution of that character. And what it eventually became and how he is a person was like, this is going to be a hard read because of where he had to go and how he had to take the audience with him through this disguise and and that kind of sitting. So I feel like your characters had their own honesty. That's, I think, what shocked me about the play. I think most of the time I'm looking at the narrative of a play. I'm looking at the overarching lessons, the artistic angles, the the theoretical backgrounds. Who are what people are they pulling from? Where are they developing these characters from? But the characters had like a genuine sense of honesty to me that I just found kind of daunting. Even the play the stage instructions, I just really believed them. It was like this authentic voice without pretense. It was really designed. I couldn't figure out how you had done it or how you had imparted that with me after hearing it. But I did feel like the characters themselves were being honest about their role. And that's a very complex and dynamic relationship to unpack. As as a viewer, I do want to climb into. Writing your trajectory, so I want to get into some of the logistics before we climb into the meat of the story. When did you start writing it and what was the kind of timeline with between that as to when you did your first read, who was the group you were working with? Like, let's just do all those little details really quickly? [00:32:29][106.9]

[00:32:30] Well, yeah, it's been a little over two years. [00:32:32][2.3]

[00:32:33] The play's actually started off with me trying to have a conversation between somebody that had assaulted a woman and coming to apologize to her. I could not write that story because I don't know that story. And there was no way that I could ever be honest about that story, not knowing anything about that story. So who tasked you with that? [00:32:58][24.5]

[00:32:58] Was that just something an exercise you put on yourself? [00:33:00][1.8]

[00:33:01] Yeah, yeah. [00:33:01][0.7]

[00:33:02] It was a, um, you know, I started going to a lawyer play playhouse as part of a writing group for veterans. [00:33:12][9.9]

[00:33:13] And really, that's. [00:33:14][1.5]

[00:33:16] That's where I started to become very brave with my work, because it was we'd sit around and we share stories and they were very difficult stories, but. There is a sense of honesty at that table. That is really. [00:33:36][19.8]

[00:33:39] It was it was like a responsibility that we had to be honest at that table and and I feel so very fortunate, I was very intimidated the first time I sat at that table. Everybody else, they're all writers. I did not consider myself a writer at all. [00:33:56][16.9]

[00:33:57] I definitely felt like I didn't belong. And they'd figure it out pretty quickly, but. [00:34:04][6.3]

[00:34:05] We all showed up with pages and we got to work, and they had no time for my insecure bullshit, so. So yeah. So I started writing that story. [00:34:16][11.0]

[00:34:18] And. [00:34:18][0.0]

[00:34:20] And then abandoned it pretty quickly and then I decided that I was going to start writing a little bit closer to what I was experiencing and what I was experiencing was after I'd gone into the mountain on my solo backpacking trip, I decided that it was time for me to go to the VA and start following through on PTSD treatment program that I had started and stopped many times over. [00:34:53][33.3]

[00:34:55] So while I was going to that, I was also attending these writing groups at my house. And so as I was uncovering and dealing with a lot of ugly things, I was able to start processing that very honestly on the pages and. [00:35:16][20.6]

[00:35:18] So the first the first iteration of this play was. [00:35:23][5.1]

[00:35:25] Pretty far removed from where it is right now, but. My desire and what I was trying to say. Was very clear early on that I wanted to speak honestly about what it means to be a survivor of trauma. [00:35:40][15.3]

[00:35:41] Yeah, and I wanted to be honest about. [00:35:43][2.3]

[00:35:46] My experience, and because as I've worked with other people telling their stories and have worked on telling my own stories, you know, it's. [00:35:56][10.6]

[00:35:57] They all vary, but when we can be really honest about the things that scare us most, I think we find common ground. And it brings us to. [00:36:08][10.7]

[00:36:10] To share and expose some of these ugly things, yeah, kind of hiding was it was it two years from writing the first draft until winning the twenty nineteen bridge award? [00:36:22][12.5]

[00:36:24] I would say it was a little bit more than two years. You know, just because those first few months, I don't remember the exact day that I had started, but maybe two and a half years at most. [00:36:37][13.7]

[00:36:41] Can you tell us a little bit about I want to kind of cover, I want to drop in to the player, your synopsis of it, after kind of looking at the award. Can you tell us about receiving the bridge award or how you applied for that? The reception of it? You flew out to New York to receive it or no. [00:37:00][19.0]

[00:37:01] Yeah, the idea is actually quite an amazing gift. [00:37:05][4.0]

[00:37:06] I so November 4th of last year is when I had a, um, a reading, a very small reading at a play house of this play. [00:37:17][10.8]

[00:37:19] And I didn't even tell any of my friends or family to come and I didn't. [00:37:25][6.0]

[00:37:26] I just wanted to experience it for myself. And and that was my accomplishment. That was it. But I continue to work on it after that, it was actually one of my veteran writing cohorts, Franscisco, that. [00:37:42][16.3]

[00:37:44] Told me that I needed to start getting my work out there because I have been sitting on a lot of writing for a very long time and. [00:37:54][9.7]

[00:37:56] So he's a retired Marine and we listen to retired Marines. [00:38:01][4.8]

[00:38:01] Yeah, yeah. [00:38:02][0.5]

[00:38:03] So I, I submitted my play just a handful of hours before the deadline. And and, you know, but I will say that November 4th of last year, after that reading of I took my notes and the cover page of that play from that day, I had framed in my house immediately because I understood that I had overcome something really amazing and and it was a very private thing. So I'm submitting this play for the bridge. I'm looking at that little framed picture. [00:38:37][34.3]

[00:38:38] And I just think it's amazing that I have a close to finish work. [00:38:44][5.9]

[00:38:45] And so I went out of my mind because I did not think for a million years that that what I had written would. Get any attention, and so, yes, I received a phone call telling me that I was a finalist and then I found out who the judges were and and that was just amazing to know that it was being read by people that I did not know. [00:39:12][27.6]

[00:39:13] Absolutely. [00:39:13][0.0]

[00:39:15] And then the day that they called the winner, I. I took the day off from work and I went to the San Diego Public Library and I was in the elevator on the way up and I had to get off on the fourth floor. [00:39:29][14.2]

[00:39:30] And, um, it was a really beautiful moment. [00:39:34][4.0]

[00:39:35] Erica, you house the founder of the bridge, a word. [00:39:38][3.3]

[00:39:40] She spoke to me for some time on the phone, but Tony Kushner was the final judge and he had written something about it and she read it to me over the phone. And it was a really beautiful moment because people had told me that they. Loved it and they said other things, but what he what he. Said It made me feel seen in a way that I had never felt before, and it was just a really beautiful moment, and then I called my dad right away. [00:40:20][40.2]

[00:40:21] But part of their part of that award was to put me in touch with amazing prolific artist, playwrights, writers, people that I think. [00:40:33][12.3]

[00:40:36] Would have intimidated the hell out of me had I met them just a short while before. [00:40:43][6.7]

[00:40:47] And I know a lot of times I was meeting with people and I didn't know who they were and which was nice. Yeah, absolutely. And you just start talking about your process as a writer and your challenges and you find out that these are these are problems that we all kind of suffer from. And at the end of the day, these amazing and prolific artists are suffering from the same ailments that I am and the same struggles. And so that was that was an amazing gift. [00:41:18][31.4]

[00:41:19] Absolutely. When did you decide to have a rereading of it? Was that done for you? [00:41:25][6.2]

[00:41:27] The second one that I attended just this past October at La Hoya Playhouse asked if they could do a reading after the award, the Bridgeboro Charcoal Kitchen, the artistic director at Luhya Playhouse actually flew out to New York. [00:41:44][17.0]

[00:41:44] I had a reading of it at the public, and so she was there. [00:41:48][3.7]

[00:41:48] And so what would what would be the next step like? I'm not even certain how it goes from reading to production. Are you introduced? Are you interested in pushing it through to production? [00:42:00][11.8]

[00:42:02] Absolutely I am. [00:42:04][2.2]

[00:42:05] The reason why I want it to go to production is because of the conversations that I get to have with people after the story. [00:42:11][6.2]

[00:42:14] I think my two favorite moments out of all the moments have been women coming up to me and just saying the words I felt seen them and. [00:42:26][11.9]

[00:42:29] That. [00:42:29][0.0]

[00:42:31] It's just incredible, but I don't know, much like everything else, I don't know what I'm doing until I get there. [00:42:39][8.1]

[00:42:40] And, you know, I'm fortunate to have an amazing group of people that are very supportive of my work and this play. [00:42:51][11.3]

[00:42:52] And so I have two directors that are interested in it and are looking to shape it. And I actually just sent my latest draft out yesterday and I got really good. [00:43:07][15.2]

[00:43:08] Will you start work on other writing? Will you start on your next project, on your next play or your next book while you're kind of looking at putting this in production? Or will you do one thing at a time? [00:43:18][10.2]

[00:43:19] No, I have already started as soon as I. [00:43:22][3.4]

[00:43:23] I constantly have a thousand different stories going on in my head and I just don't have enough time in the day. So I've already started working on my next few projects. But the so I have my my second play that I think my first round, my first draft will be done in a couple of months and we'll be ready for a reading by the end of December. And, and then this this year I'm going to be a. Working on my very first screenplay, and I'm incredibly excited about it, and this last year, I was commissioned to write a 10 minute play for Those Without Walls Festival here in San Diego. And through that story, I was able to start unpacking a lot of my experience in the Air Force. So I'm looking forward to sharing those experiences and telling the story of a female combat vet, which is a story I don't think we get to hear enough of hardly ever, hardly, particularly in the theater arts and I think on screen as well. [00:44:35][72.1]

[00:44:36] And it needs to be told, you know, honoring our service members can not be done enough. I'll let everyone know when we've done it too much. It's never going to happen. But female service members just see the unspoken heroes. I mean, it's it's I think it's a story that is wildly untapped. And I can't wait for your analysis of it and for your words to reach it. [00:44:59][23.5]

[00:45:01] I'm wondering, do you want to give a synopsis of tampons, dead dogs and other disposable things? Do you have one? Do you have, like, this kind of sentiment regarding the storyline that you can give the audience listening today? [00:45:13][12.2]

[00:45:15] You know, I've been really struggling with that because, you know, the way that this place works, it works best when we don't really understand what we're going through. [00:45:25][10.6]

[00:45:27] And, you know, and I think. [00:45:30][2.6]

[00:45:32] I still have yet to really land on exactly the right words for it. [00:45:36][3.6]

[00:45:37] I sense that. And I didn't want to kind of get too much into the characters because it is part, at least for me. [00:45:44][7.2]

[00:45:44] I went in blind. I read a review that said nothing about the storyline, which gave an idea that you were not meant to. And and I don't know I don't know if my personal reception was because I went in blind. That could be argued for every artistic endeavor, someone I don't know anything about it, but we can't all do that because we got to know a little bit. But with this particular thing, I kind of think like, no, you just have to kind of go into you know, you can know a little bit about you and the inspiration that we've kind of uncovered here today. But I think it's just it's kind of imperative that people look at it. You know that they go in a little bit more under red than not, and that's never my advice. I'm I'm a big researcher and to that end, I wonder if, you know, whatever happens with production and things of that nature, if you would ever consider doing a reading either on YouTube or as a podcast of the play, would you ever consider putting it out on any other medium other than the stage? [00:46:48][63.3]

[00:46:49] Yeah, actually, I've considered that. And I have a group of friends here in San Diego, filmmakers that are also interested in that particular conversation. [00:46:58][8.9]

[00:47:00] So I am. And I think. [00:47:04][3.4]

[00:47:05] Again, the thing that drives me is just being able to reach people and tell a story that I think needs to be told and so that other people can tell theirs. [00:47:14][8.6]

[00:47:16] But, yeah, I, I even have this insane idea of making it a site specific play. That sounds fantastic. What what do you mean by that. You mean a Yeah. [00:47:27][10.9]

[00:47:27] Like an actual going on a little bit of a hike, not, not an insane hike but am an easy short hike through nature to kind of experience the snippets of the play as you walk along. [00:47:42][14.7]

[00:47:43] That'll be amazing. [00:47:43][0.4]

[00:47:44] I endorse that. That's you. No, I think it's it spans genres, to be honest. [00:47:52][7.4]

[00:47:52] You're taking theater and pushing it into, like, living art. Like, I think you're really questioning the lines between the two different genres of performance art and theater. [00:48:04][11.5]

[00:48:04] I fully support that. Fantastic. As an art historian, like, I think that sounds like something that needs to be done, particularly with this play, because it does work. Obviously, it almost begs it now that you've said it, I'm like asking for it. That would be fantastic. [00:48:21][17.0]

[00:48:23] So looking forward, you've mentioned kind of in our talk that you're looking at production of tampons, dead dogs and other disposable things. You're starting work on your next play. It sounds like the reading should be coming out in December or something through the house, I'm assuming. And you're working on your first screenplay. [00:48:41][18.5]

[00:48:43] Do you have like when you look at your life as a writer and all of the projects that you're doing, do you look forward? I mean, you have the year. What year are we? And we have the year of what is this year. Do you have an idea of what next year will be? A will that drive your goals? [00:48:59][15.6]

[00:49:00] Yeah, actually. So I'm I'm in the year of bravery. And my task was to actually agree to do a lot of things that terrify me. And the the bridge award opens up on December 1st, which is actually my birthday. So I am that was my first act of bravery this last year. So I'm coming to a close of a very successful year in bravery. And yeah. [00:49:28][27.9]

[00:49:30] And it was right after I got back from New York the first round, I sat with Adam Driver and and Tucker and Steven Balbir and a few other amazing artists for a reading of this play at Juilliard. [00:49:45][15.1]

[00:49:46] And I was just high on all of this artistic energy. [00:49:49][2.8]

[00:49:49] And as soon as I got home and went camping with a family and I took a little run through the woods and sat down and next year's theme came to me, next year is going to be the year of the screen. [00:50:05][15.4]

[00:50:08] And that coming. That's excellent. [00:50:09][1.4]

[00:50:10] Yeah. And you you saw the play or listen to it. And so you probably have a better understanding than your listeners might of what that actually means. [00:50:21][11.1]

[00:50:22] I do. [00:50:23][0.2]

[00:50:24] And so the first task is to to see tampons that dogs and other disposable things stage somewhere. [00:50:33][8.8]

[00:50:34] Somehow I will make it happen. And another part is working on this podcast, the loudest, softest sound so that I can help other people use their voices. [00:50:46][12.3]

[00:50:47] Yeah. And and then the screenplay. [00:50:51][3.5]

[00:50:53] It's I'm I'm in love with this character, like I was in love with the main character of tampons and dead dogs, and I cannot wait to share her with the world. [00:51:03][10.1]

[00:51:05] Absolutely. I'll be at the first reading. I can't reference center with me as well. [00:51:11][6.4]

[00:51:12] Well, as we wrap up today, I want to ask you, I always kind of draw a little picture for those who maybe don't know how I've received the past hour or so. If you were walking down the street tomorrow and a woman or a female identified individual or non binary individual, essentially anyone other than a white man, if someone like that walked up to you and said, listen, I I've I've I've had kind of a diversified past. I left college early. I did a bunch of interesting kind of odd jobs. I had a child. I returned to school. Then I turned back and I served in the armed services. I did a bunch of things. And I think it's time for me to start like this creative writing endeavor. And I know there's something in me and I need to get it onto paper. What would do to the three top pieces of advice that you would give me on? [00:52:07][55.2]

[00:52:09] To open up a Google doc immediately and start writing the very first thing that comes to your mind and don't stop to allow everything to come out, everything to never second guess how shitty something might be and just really understand that any self-doubt that's going to arise is perfectly normal. [00:52:32][23.0]

[00:52:34] And another thing. [00:52:35][0.5]

[00:52:37] I think would be to look at your writing as kind of going into a rabbit hole. We're no bottom to it. And. [00:52:46][9.7]

[00:52:48] Trust yourself to go in as deep as you possibly can and know that through your writing, they're going to be questions that are unanswerable questions, but. [00:53:00][11.5]

[00:53:01] They're so worth exploring. [00:53:02][0.6]

[00:53:05] And then. [00:53:05][0.2]

[00:53:07] Put yourself in the way of luck. I think that I. [00:53:12][4.9]

[00:53:14] I was hiking with my kids one day and this swarm of ladybugs kind of came across this field and we were standing just like a million ladybugs all over the place. [00:53:27][12.8]

[00:53:27] And we're just standing trying to get them to land on us because we know that that means you're going to have something like is going to happen. But they weren't landing on us. And so I kind of looked far up in the distance and I saw that it was really there was just a little bit of a gully and they had kind of centralized in this one area. So is grabbing the kids. And it's like one over here because sometimes you just have to put yourself in the way of luck. [00:53:55][27.8]

[00:53:56] And and so I really I really think that. Going into spaces that scare you, going into the spaces that you feel that you don't belong, talking to people that you feel are more educated than you, more than just come from a deeper understanding of the world than you don't ever. Make those assumptions. Because you will always be surprised by other people and ultimately yourself. And I think those are the three things that. I have made so much of a difference for me, absolutely, I have put everything onto the page, leave nothing off, do it immediately. [00:54:40][44.3]

[00:54:41] Number two, never second guess how wonderful or shitty what you're writing is. Look at your writing as a rabbit hole and trust the journey and put yourself in the way of luck. [00:54:52][11.0]

[00:54:54] I love that. I love that those takeaways, those are really genuine. That last one in particular, clever. [00:55:01][7.1]

[00:55:02] And you can I think that the idea of waiting for something wonderful to happen while we all slave away is sometimes kind of silly, like go find one stand in front of you so much as the power is so reversed there with the idea itself kind of controlling it is absolutely awesome. [00:55:22][20.1]

[00:55:24] I want to thank you so much for your time today. I know you're busy and we all are, but I know that your schedule is sensitive and I really appreciate you taking the time, inviting me out to see the reading of tampons, dead dogs and other disposable things. And, yeah, just you kind of going down this journey with me and all of your candor regarding your work. [00:55:49][24.7]

[00:55:49] I know it's difficult even when your work is based on being candid, but I do appreciate your time today and speaking with us. [00:55:58][9.0]

[00:55:59] Thank you so very much for the joy. [00:56:01][1.4]

[00:56:01] Absolutely. For everyone listening, you can reach out to Shairi and learn a little bit more about everything we talked about today. Again, Shairi Angle, dotcom h a i r i n g e dot com. And thank you for giving us your time for the past hour. I appreciate it. And until we speak again, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte. [00:56:01][0.0]

[3071.5]

View Details

Interview with Kristen Knepper: Founder & CEO of Kristen Knepper Consulting. Kristen Knepper Consulting is a dual professional development firm specializing in diversity & inclusion and career coaching for women. Kristen facilitates workshops on inclusive leadership, emotional intelligence, team synergy, and subconscious bias. (kristenknepper.com)

TRANSCRIPTION

*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors

[00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with female and female identified entrepreneurs, founders, co-founders, business owners and industry gurus. These podcasts speak with women and women, identified individuals across all industries in order to shed light for those just getting into the entrepreneurial game, as well as those deeply embedded within it histories, current companies and lessons learned are explored in the conversations I have with these insightful and talented powerhouses. The series is designed to investigate a female and female identified perspective in what has largely been a male dominated industry in the USA to date. I look forward to contributing to the national dialog about the long overdue change of women in American business arenas and in particular, entrepreneurial roles. You can contact me via my media company website Wild Dot Agency. That's w i l d dot agency or my personal website. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:25][77.9]

[00:01:29] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. This is your host, Patricia, and today I am sitting down with Kristen Knepper. Kristen is the founder and CEO of Kristen Knepper Consulting. You can locate her at Kristen Knepper Dotcom. That is Cristie and K and E p e r dot com. Welcome, Kristen. [00:01:48][18.6]

[00:01:49] Thank you. I'm excited to be here. [00:01:50][1.1]

[00:01:50] I'm excited to have you. I look forward to getting into your company. And for everyone listening, I'm going to do a quick file on Kristen. But before we do that, the roadmap of today's podcast will be similar to the roadmap that we've done for the entire series. We're going to talk about Kristen's academic background and early professional life. Then we will go straight to unpacking Kristen Knepper consulting, and we're going to hit the big pillars there. So the when, where, who, what, why? So everything regarding founding and funding and all of that good stuff. And then we'll turn our attention straight to the goals that Kristen has for both Kristen Knepper consulting and maybe even some personal goals for the next three years regarding scaling expansion, branding, all of those things. And then we will wrap everything up with talking about advice that Kristen has for those who are either looking to work with her alongside her or model some of their career after what she has done. We drop into a quick bio. [00:02:43][52.4]

[00:02:43] And Kristen, before I start peppering her with questions, Kristen Nupur is the founder and CEO of Kristen No Consulting, a dual professional development firm specializing in diversity and inclusion and career coaching for women who facilitates workshops on inclusive leadership, emotional intelligence team synergy and subconscious bias. Kristen served both Senator Edward M. Kennedy and Senator Debbie Stabenow advising on a variety of policy issues while perfecting her negotiation and mediation skills as founder of Christian Network Consulting. Her mission is to help organizations retain and engage the talent of the modern workforce while assisting individuals in articulating their value. She speaks in a variety of topics surrounding women in business, including self advocacy, empowerment, feminine leadership and intersectionality. I am so excited to get into some of this with you, Kristen. I think that your firm, it sounds like the ethos of it is something that we so desperately need. But before we get into that, can you drop a straight into your academic background and early professional life following that? [00:03:47][64.4]

[00:03:48] Yeah, absolutely. So and I like to share the story just to tell other people, don't be afraid to take a chance and really listen to your inner gut. So I was six years old. [00:03:58][10.0]

[00:03:58] I saw Marilyn Monroe on TV. I decided I wanted to be an actress and my parents being the overachiever people they were. [00:04:04][5.7]

[00:04:05] And they said, well, you can either go to Juilliard or Western. And Northwestern was closer to where I was growing up. So I went to Northwestern, studied theater, and I hated it. And while I was there, I became involved into political campaigns and I'm dating myself, but it was ninety two. So it was Senator Carol Moseley Braun who then became the first African-American elected to the US Senate, African-American woman elected to the US Senate, and then Bill Clinton and Al Gore. And that really set me on a path. I left college at that time, decided to take a leave of absence, moved to D.C. with, able to apply for and obtain an internship with Senator Kennedy. [00:04:41][36.1]

[00:04:42] And I changed direction and did it. It wasn't really a whim, but it was it was really a risk. And I'm so glad I did, because that set me up that way as I transfer to school in D.C. And then that was my first job after college, working for the senator. And I stayed there through my first year of law school, got to work on a number of policy issues and just really observe leaders in the field, people who were really excellent at their craft. And that set a very high bar for me as I went through. [00:05:11][29.4]

[00:05:12] Did you find it difficult to get I mean, it sounds like a prestigious internship and I just never know how difficult it is working in D.C. like a Kennedy internship. Your first round in was that rough or was it difficult to get or was it connected? How did you get there? [00:05:25][13.5]

[00:05:26] Yeah, I think that's a great question and so might just tell you. So I grew up on a farm in Indiana, so I did not have connections in that regard. And I was just too young and stupid, for lack of a better word, to know that that was supposed to be super prestigious and it wasn't something that I was supposed to get. So I just submitted my application and I had a roommate. I didn't even know how to do a resume, really at the time I was 19 years old and he saw me, saw what I was doing, and I said, I'm going to move to D.C. and I'm going to do this. I'm so excited. And she's like, well, don't do it that way. And he helped me. And so it was being open to not knowing anything and allowing myself to be put in the hands of people that were really helpful, had my best interest at heart. [00:06:15][48.7]

[00:06:15] And following that gut instinct and how you said that you you had pivoted very quickly from realizing you didn't like the theater program and that you get swept up in two campaigns, but do you remember how you became swept up in. The two campaigns was based on college politics on campus or how did that happen? [00:06:31][16.2]

[00:06:32] No, it was my sister was really influential in that and she was already in D.C. She was actually younger than me. And she had applied to be a page on Capitol Hill when she was a junior in high school and seeing what she did and her enthusiasm. And I think, again, that young and naive in some ways, but very, very hopeful idea of this can be an instrument that can really change the world. And it was a time. So this was the Anita Hill hearings in my first year of college and seeing what she went through and just knowing in my gut that you don't take risks like that when you're an established professor, law professor would throw your entire career away to condemn somebody that she must honestly be telling the truth and to see so many people not believe her. That really fired me up. And obviously a lot of other women in nineteen ninety two that was known as the or the woman. And we tripled the number of women senators. Of course it went from two to six at that time, but it was really that movement and seeing someone else's struggle, I think that really motivated me. [00:07:40][67.8]

[00:07:41] Yeah, absolutely. Well and I think that, you know, things come around. I'm a big believer in that. And being in my 40s, I can attest to the fact that I'm finally living to a place where even politically I'm seeing happen, because the Anita Hill issue is very big. When you're considering the Democratic candidate of Joe Biden and how he treated her in those hearings, those things don't go away. And I will never forget how I felt watching how she was treated within those hearings and how she was to be proven right rather than understood or heard. She had to validate even kind of being able to say what she said or being a woman. It was it was amazing for feminist history to see that go down on a very political scale. [00:08:26][45.8]

[00:08:27] Absolutely. Yeah. I remember that very distinctly myself. And I remember thinking at the time, this woman has a law degree. Why are you not giving her credit for her education and everything she's struggled to achieve? And it was just so anxious and I felt so defeated after that and that something needed to be done. [00:08:42][15.2]

[00:08:43] Yeah, I agree. And I think that contributing to our stories and even putting it out there works with that. I mean, we had Brett Kavanaugh kind of reintroduced the entire thing just yet once again. So history is going to keep doing this until we can start to change. And I think getting women in office is the fastest way for that change. And have we started that work in the 90s, the year of the woman? [00:09:02][19.4]

[00:09:04] Awesome. That's great. Let's have another one, maybe double down. But I do I do love the idea that we had the the gusto. [00:09:12][7.6]

[00:09:13] And I was like, oh, look, we've got six new six senators that are women and it's darling when people say that. But I believe in change. And if it's slow, I'll take it that way, too. But I'd like to speed it up. And that's a fantastic I think that setting up in Washington, I'm always curious with people who get that kind of breath, because it seems to be like a microcosm climate. It's like it's oh, yeah, it's its own little universe. It's like it's a little country. [00:09:36][23.1]

[00:09:36] I went to D.C. for the first time when I was 19 on separate business. And I remember thinking they have different like Hollywood here, like different people, Amus. [00:09:45][8.2]

[00:09:45] They have different ugly people, we call it. [00:09:47][1.9]

[00:09:48] Yeah, it's crazy. It's cool because I love it when you get into an environment and you don't have to leave our country where the importance of things shifts. It's who's working for who, it's who's got what agenda. It's it's a very different dynamic than you get in other parts of the country who have their own agenda. [00:10:06][17.4]

[00:10:06] Absolutely. I remember traveling to Austin when I was still on the Hill and still in DC and we were at a wine bar and I was with someone and the waitress came over and she started chatting with us and was very friendly and was telling us about things to do and everything. [00:10:20][14.0]

[00:10:21] And she walked away and I turned to my companion and I said, what's her problem? And he looked at me and he's like Kristen. [00:10:26][5.4]

[00:10:27] Outside of the district, people are nice to each other, mind blown. I was like, Oh, people are. Plomley OK. [00:10:34][7.2]

[00:10:35] Yeah, right. I know that people say that in New York is rough. And I was like, oh, I've had some pretty scathing comments in D.C. People can get pretty intense. Very. Which is good. It's good to have that kind of passion behind it. So I want to turn now. [00:10:51][16.6]

[00:10:52] We can kind of double back into some of your I think we will kind of drop back in as we're climbing through it. But back into your affair with Washington, DC. But I want to look at unpacking Kristen Knepper consulting. And I want to start with when it was founded. So a year who founded it? And in addition to you, are you alone and funding? So those three things, did you bootstrap, did you get funding and when was it founded? [00:11:16][23.8]

[00:11:16] Yeah, great question. So this is another kind of pivot that I made. So when the business was initially founded, it was founded with three gentlemen. [00:11:25][8.4]

[00:11:25] It was a consulting at the. Time, and we did that in 2014 and then parted ways in early 2016, and that's when, you know, I had some pivotal things going on, I knew I still wanted to be an entrepreneur, entrepreneur and a business owner. I had always been passionate about feminism, and I knew that there was something more that needed to be to be done and that the gifts I had to give and I was having a conversation with my friend Luke, and he had gone to a personal development workshop and he came back from Denver. And I said to him, what was your aha moment? What was one of the pivotal things you learned? And he's a very thoughtful person. So he paused for a second and he looked at me and he said, men think they're great and women think they're unworthy. And he could have told me that the sun rose in the east. I was like, we all know that. [00:12:11][45.7]

[00:12:11] Yes, great. Great. But he looked at me again. He was like, why is that? And rather than giving a flippant response, I you know, I thought about it and I was like, I don't know. But I sure want to find out. And that was when I committed to going in this direction of working with women, not exclusively but fundamentally making that my focus. [00:12:33][22.2]

[00:12:34] And as I started to unpack what that would look like, one of the things that we always do with regard to teaching women how to make it in the workforce is we put all the responsibility on them. And the reality is at the top, you have white men who are not changing and don't understand the power of a diverse team and how that will change the dynamics of your business for the better 10 times over. [00:13:01][26.3]

[00:13:01] And so I realized that it had to be a dual consulting agency where we were teaching those who already had power while also working directly with women. [00:13:11][9.7]

[00:13:12] Did you bootstrap when you shifted over to just. [00:13:14][1.9]

[00:13:15] Oh, did I? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. [00:13:18][3.2]

[00:13:19] OK, and then twenty sixteen. You went off on your own and did you bring anyone else on underneath you or were you a single person team for a sec. [00:13:26][7.7]

[00:13:27] Single person team. [00:13:28][0.8]

[00:13:29] Well it's interesting because you started off with like a perception, like an idea of what you wanted to incorporate into it. And I love that. But it also seems very obtuse, you know, thinking about I want to take this inclusive city and liked and change and understand this kind of status quo of like, women just don't feel the same as men in business. [00:13:49][20.1]

[00:13:49] It seems wonderful, but it also seems very obscure to kind of make it part of your business model and thread that through. Did you do that best with obtaining your new clients, like looking to work with women, or did you start off with like a structured set of tools that guided your ethos? [00:14:06][16.4]

[00:14:08] That's a great question. So it was it grew very organically, but it was asking it was kind of the same way I landed in Washington, D.C. and got a prestigious internship. It was asking questions. It was not knowing enough to be guarded. And I would say something and some would say, no, absolutely don't do that. But we do it, you know, and and having just some guidance early on from people who had gone before me, both in the consulting industry and in the diversity and inclusion industry as well. And in previous jobs, I had always I had led the internship program for Senator Kennedy. I had always managed teams. And then I was working with law students. And to career counseling was something that I had always done. And one of the interesting things that kind of guided the way I did this, so I had been divorced and after I was divorced, you know, you really kind of unpack what was my part in this. And so I took a number of dating classes and that was really fundamental. There was a woman I worked with. Her name is Dr. Pat Allen, and she talks about femininity and masculinity. And I think that that's something that we don't really talk about a lot, especially in the workplace. But I took those elements and I studied how those would impact a workplace and how much more power and prestige we give to masculine traits than we do to feminine traits. But that having a balance of both, just like in any relationship, is really what makes a team dynamic and move forward, is having that diversity of thought, diversity of perspective. [00:15:38][89.8]

[00:15:39] And rather than teaching women to be more masculine and to fit into this mold, we really need to teach them what. And not every women, obviously not every single woman conforms to this, but teaching the other side of that coin and the value of femininity and what that can contribute to the workplace. [00:15:55][15.8]

[00:15:56] Yeah, absolutely. And just, I think removing or trying to reassign the power of the values that we're calling masculine and feminine. You know, I think everything has a value in the place. But to ascribe a higher power to traits that are traditionally seen as masculine is where we get into the algebraic breakdown of why the unevenness of of power exists and why men don't feel as excited about adopting feminine traits which are incredibly healthy. [00:16:29][33.4]

[00:16:30] There is someone who did a recent study regarding what is considered a feminine trait, and there's a lot of them that are much more attuned to things that we're trying to implement back into the workforce, meditative and calm and things of those nature. And I don't I don't ascribe to anything being masculine or feminine anymore. I try very hard to reprogram myself in that direction. But I don't mind having looked at things that way or having people look things that way in the past, so long as we can move forward with a new value assigned to them. [00:16:58][27.9]

[00:16:59] Yeah, I think we have to kind of backtrack and understand that history before we can move forward and make it. [00:17:03][4.6]

[00:17:04] Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. So I'm curious with your firm, since twenty sixteen, as you've acquired clients and kind of implemented this, this ethos of diversity and inclusion, you it says that you have you in your bio, it talks about running different workshops and leadership kind of things, talking about emotional intelligence and team synergy. Did all of those products, let's call them for lack of a better are techniques that you kind of implement with companies. Did those develop organically and do they change depending on your particular company's need or have you found this boilerplate that everybody simply needs? [00:17:45][41.0]

[00:17:45] Yeah, that's a great question. So it was trial and error at first that I really established what was necessary. And when we talk about diversity, inclusion, being trained as an attorney, I think in a very linear fashion. And I think about, oh, these are the statistics and this is what we need to do, and that doesn't change hearts and minds. [00:18:02][16.5]

[00:18:03] So having the emotional intelligence component that I was, one of the things that I drew on early on, I don't even remember how that that came into play. I think I was probably giving a lecture and somebody said, that's really interesting, but you're not really facilitating a conversation with other people when you just throw statistics at them that doesn't change their minds. [00:18:23][20.8]

[00:18:24] So implemented this format that I start off every workshop, emotional intelligence. So talking about self awareness, self regulation and empathy, because change always starts with the individual. So if I have a CEO that doesn't understand that he or she is becoming defensive and we're talking about something that triggers him or her, you know, nothing's going to change. It has to be top down. So I make every individual accountable in that way. And then once we go through that section of the training, then we can start talking about statistics. [00:18:55][30.8]

[00:18:55] Then we can start talking about what the reality is for different marginalized communities and how we want it to look instead. Right. [00:19:03][8.1]

[00:19:04] It's tricky. I mean, I think it's it when I. Here, things like that, I think this is great, but how it's delivered and received, like you said, the defensiveness you first prepare someone to not receive something in a defensive manner is crucial and key. And when you get someone who may have been unknowingly kind of guilty or belonging to a system that was unknowingly guilty of discrimination, everybody gets very shifty every moment. [00:19:32][27.8]

[00:19:34] So it's important that we talk about that up front. And that's one of the things that I've learned over the years, that we have to start up with a conversation about emotional intelligence. We have to understand that all of us are guilty of behavior that was less desirable than our highest self would want and that there's nothing good or bad from that. [00:19:53][19.0]

[00:19:53] We take that, we learn from it. We move forward and we make another choice instead. [00:19:58][4.3]

[00:19:59] I think, you know, the worst pieces of my job is when I start to leave an event or I start to leave a training and I have somebody say, and this is thankfully not going would only happen to a couple of times, but have somebody say, well, I just don't really see color and I have to go back and say, well, that means that it doesn't matter to you. I see them. Exactly. Or I had one time this gentleman who is from Australia. So I hope that that plays a part in it. But he we were talking he's like, well, I don't really pay attention to gender. I just hire the best man for the job. Yes. [00:20:35][35.3]

[00:20:35] Yes. Put that on a t shirt. That's gorgeous. I love that. So I'm glad he was he was brave enough to just put that out there. [00:20:44][9.2]

[00:20:45] Like that subconscious slip is so vitally important because I think that people love to love themselves. Men love to love themselves. And I think that that is if I could bottle something and drink it and pass it around my sister had, I would that like self love. It goes into anti bigotry that there is no I'm not discriminatory. I'm just better than everyone else. It's just beautiful because it's so ironic and weird. But I think great things come from really believing in this childish way that you are queen and you can do anything and all that. Like I love that idea. [00:21:21][36.4]

[00:21:21] It's just the way you understand how preposterously they they certain people just don't have that logic mindset. When you hear things like like, oh, you're not home at all. [00:21:31][9.7]

[00:21:34] Yeah. The competence of a mediocre white guy. [00:21:36][1.9]

[00:21:38] Bottle it, sell it on your unicorn on the way. [00:21:42][3.9]

[00:21:44] I agree. [00:21:44][0.2]

[00:21:45] So when you know, as you've had a couple, you're in deep you're in three years, you're heading into your fourth year of Christian Knepper Consulting. What has been can you draw like looking back, it's not a ton of time, but it's enough to look at the road and how it's changed and what you've done. Can you draw us through some of the changes that's happened with it? [00:22:03][18.6]

[00:22:04] Yeah, so I had a big breakthrough. So I had a friend who was a writer at Universal Studios and introduced me to some of the diversity and inclusion team there in the summer of twenty seventeen. And then lo and behold, in October of two thousand and seventeen, we know what happened. And the Harvey Weinstein story broke and I was in high demand at that time. And it was one of those things where I'm like, oh my God, I'm going. I need to hire more people. I'm gonna need to expand. I'm going to need to make this look different. We're going to need to do a train, the trainer workshop, et cetera, et cetera. And as soon as that started to build momentum, it just as quickly died. And everybody remembers the Tony Robbins video that went out and how he had been speaking to people in Hollywood and they were scared to hire women or be alone with women or talk to women or promote women. I really felt that shift in my business in a very visceral way. [00:22:54][50.6]

[00:22:56] And so I guess that taught me that you just have to to to ride the horse. [00:23:00][4.5]

[00:23:01] You're given to throw a cliche out there because it's slowly starting to come back. [00:23:06][5.4]

[00:23:07] And I think that that is what makes having a dual income consultancy really sustainable, because when that source of income went away, it had to be the the women's leadership workshops. It had to be the group coaching and had to be the individual coaching that sustained me over that period of time. So just making sure that your audiences is more than one sector of the population can be really, really valuable in that regard. [00:23:33][26.2]

[00:23:34] Absolutely. And being able to ride those waves, I mean, the irony of what you're talking about, I think hasn't been fully explored. I think a lot of people kind of bump into it by saying, oh, yeah, after it affected them. But this backlash after me to really took off and things like that of people being scared and on a whole nother level. [00:23:53][19.1]

[00:23:55] First it was discrimination and then it was fear of bringing women on to retaining women that were already in businesses for fear of lawsuits that were just gaining traction and, you know, dismantling financial. [00:24:07][12.2]

[00:24:07] Actually, companies and things like that, I there was a massive back wave that Tony Robbins indeed explored on a superficial level, but it affected a lot of people and yourself being a consulting person, even people in house that had contracts that were coming up or things like that, I knew of a lot of people that believed that their job was on the line, even though they women and women identified individuals simply because they just became the communities, especially those that knew things were a little dicey and weren't sure how quickly they could fix their issues were terrified. [00:24:42][34.5]

[00:24:43] You know, everyone started looking inward. And it's ironic that the I mean, it's not ironic. It happens. This is history. But as we victimize the victim and to go back in and do that is it is tragic. So it is interesting that your company did that and that you pivoted with it. And they always say the true test of of the boxer is the fight, not the reception of the champagne afterwards. So this was indeed one of your fights. But it is interesting. I also I had this like it's funny as I think about what you do and dealing with diversity and inclusion. I always picture your clients being diverse and like inclusion. I like women, people of color, but it seems like your work would be best had with those that didn't have those elements. I had it backwards. I had it flipped in my head. Do you find that to be true with your history? [00:25:31][48.7]

[00:25:32] Yeah. So it's interesting because some are ready to have this conversation and it's well received and some people get very, very defensive. So if I'm in a room full of the sea level suite, it's usually going to be white men and me. And there's one or two women. And a lot of times those women will identify with the more masculine parts of themselves. [00:25:52][19.7]

[00:25:52] And they'll have this attitude of, well, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and I don't see why everybody else can't do it that way as well. And so you're really having to Ginger Rogers, the situation, do it all backwards and in heels, making sure that they are comfortable and and don't become triggered, as you are introducing very slowly in these baby spoonfuls, this idea that maybe what we're doing isn't really working, because this is the survey that we took and this is what the people at your company said. And you called me in here for a reason. So it's a very, very fine dance. [00:26:28][35.7]

[00:26:29] Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think the best way to show anyone that they should talk with you is to either have no money attached, altruistic efforts like this podcast series, or to have their bottom line impacted. [00:26:44][15.1]

[00:26:45] Are you able to go in and show statistics because it's a tragedy? Is is that that's still the fastest way to move any company? Right. Is to be like this is going to affect your bottom line. [00:26:54][8.6]

[00:26:54] Yeah, and it does. It affects everybody's bottom line, whether they know it or not. Because if women don't feel as though they have a chance to be promoted, to be appreciated and to reach their full potential, they're going to go elsewhere. [00:27:05][10.5]

[00:27:05] And that's going to cost you as far as hiring, recruiting, retention at any company on the planet. So it's one of those things. And not just women, obviously, any marginalized community. So it's really important to be having these conversations and to paying attention to this because we live in a global economy at this time whether we want to or not. And the country is becoming more diverse. [00:27:24][18.9]

[00:27:25] Yeah. Do you do you describe value to there's a lot of organizations that have popped up that you can apply to to show that you belong to their margins and and statistical requirements for diversity and inclusion. You know, there's people seeking specific labels from companies that it's like you apply, you go through this process, you prove that you belong to it, and then you can use that as a badge. Do you think that that's a good way to go for people to start being able to? Because I know that there is equally as much people and as many people looking to employ companies that have those those values involved in them, and not just the verbiage on the landing page of like, yeah, we're totally about diversity, but people who actually have proven metrics. [00:28:07][41.8]

[00:28:08] Yeah. I think, you know, and I'm hesitating because it depends on the metrics and they can vary and you might be able to show something in writing that you're not doing in reality. And so that's my hesitancy that I think it's very well-meaning. I would just be cautious about what's going on behind the curtain. Absolutely. [00:28:30][21.9]

[00:28:31] So with your the kind of changing growth that you've had with Christian Knepper consulting, do you think that because it seems like you're I don't know. I can't tell if you've diversified. I don't know if you're transitioning to be more it sounds like you have like this workshop base, but then you have you have a serious work like a girl and of online courses like when did that come above about? [00:28:55][23.6]

[00:28:55] And was that part of an evolution that came out of your workshops? [00:28:57][2.1]

[00:28:58] That was so that was early on as I was bootstrapping things and thinking of different streams of income that I started the the workshop series and just getting more people. [00:29:07][8.3]

[00:29:07] To pay attention to my work and understand the need for it and to subscribe to it so it would do a series of weekly videos and I did a couple of classes, including a sexual harassment class, before the whole Harvey Weinstein thing broke, going over the legal and what you can do when it's microaggression and it might be something that is impacting your work, but it's just not quite there where it's going to be actionable in a court of law. And let's face it, we don't want to we don't want that to be the channel that we have to go down. We would like this taken care of long before that becomes a necessity. So it was that model. I really like doing things in person more so I can put a less than premium price. If there are women that want to work with me and they don't have the means to do so by having the online courses. But I really like being able to facilitate these conversations and making sure that people understand the impact that this work can have. And it's interesting because a lot of times people will say, well, what are the results when you go into the company? And, you know, it's like hiring a personal trainer. That really depends on you. You can take this routine and you can go to the gym every day and you can see fantastic results, or you can do it once and say, well, that was fun and never do it again. And you're not going to see that change in your life. So it just depends on the motivation that the industry really has. Mhm. [00:30:21][73.5]

[00:30:21] Yeah, absolutely. And I mean the fluidity of the course laid out, I feel like a lot of people who advocate for change and want change, particularly younger people, there's, there's a lack of like a roadmap, there's a lack of like let's do this first, then that first grassroots here. And the same is true with business. It sounds like you're coming in and actually providing like a really solid boilerplate that people can follow and kind of investigate and learn. I don't think I think the fear around exclusivity and examining these things, there's a lot of energy around. Oh, it's so nerve racking. But when you can actually get into it and do it, it's it's built to make life easier. It's built so that everyone can breathe. And I think that people reminding themselves of that, you know, at the end of all of this, we're all going to feel a lot better. [00:31:11][50.0]

[00:31:12] And that's usually when we start off these workshops, one of the things that I do is I ask people, you know, was there a time where you felt like you couldn't bring your authentic self to work? And what was that like? Or can you name three childhood memories? And and what if you couldn't talk about this one? So and I remember in one workshop, it was somebody who was a fan of San Diego Padres and he said, oh, I used to go to all these games with my dad and I really loved it and et cetera, et cetera. And then it was crossed off his list. And I said, well, what does that mean to you? If you couldn't talk about that at work? And he's like, those are all the memories I have of my father. That was my childhood. It gave me this depth in this meaning. So even something that may seem superficial can really hit people in a way where they understand and they can have empathy for others who are being marginalized, who can't really fully talk about what they are, you know, it is happening to them and really uncover a layer that otherwise they wouldn't be able to. [00:32:09][57.3]

[00:32:10] Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's and it's that that examination I mean, that individual being helped beyond just the workforce. Like I said, you know, when when the efforts are going to help one system, it's going to help all systems. [00:32:21][11.2]

[00:32:22] Yeah. There's no personal and professional anymore. It's all there. Yeah. [00:32:27][5.1]

[00:32:28] I truly believe that that was hosted or aided incredibly by the removal of the office environment by virtual workplaces. It just the melding was was sort of happening this ridiculous Mad Men divide of work and home that never really existed anyway. It just led to like alcoholism and depression. [00:32:47][19.1]

[00:32:47] But I mean, trying to sever an individual like that and be like work, daddy home, daddy work, mommy home mom. [00:32:54][6.4]

[00:32:54] It's so ridiculous. [00:32:54][0.4]

[00:32:55] And so but I think that the melding of, you know, working from different environments, even in the same environment, in different ways, not everyone at a desk or different things like that really just started breaking down the walls of realizing that there isn't really the difference between the individual and personal and individual in business, at least not when it comes to values that we're talking about. Absolutely. Are going to carry those over. I agree with that. [00:33:20][24.5]

[00:33:20] So let's look forward to the next leg, if you could like. Very. Optimistically, like, let's not talk reality here, like optimistically over the next three years, if you could say you wanted several things done or what you what you envision for your consulting firm, what would they be? [00:33:37][17.5]

[00:33:39] That's a great question. So one of the things that when we had the ME2 backlash that I started doing last year, I did a retreat with a friend and fellow entrepreneur in Costa Rica. [00:33:52][13.6]

[00:33:53] And it was really it was such a wonderful experience. [00:33:55][2.4]

[00:33:56] And I'd really like to do more of that, of bringing women together so they can have this shared experience and understand that what has happened to them, whether professionally or personally, is very similar to what has happened to other women. I think one of the things I experienced early in my career when I was a young lawyer, it was sexual harassment, but it was the marginalization of Gore. Not good enough to do this work. It wasn't sexual in nature. But we're not going to include you because you are female. [00:34:27][31.1]

[00:34:28] And there was shame in that. And taking that shame and riding with that for such a long period of time throughout my own career. And I know a lot of other women do that as well. And to understand that there's nothing that you have been through, that someone else has also been through and there's nothing wrong with you, you didn't do anything wrong. Let's unpack this. Let's get to the root of it and let's empower you to go out there and be different in the future. And so I would love to be doing more of the group coaching workshops, retreats in particular, and empowering other women to help themselves and then to reach back and take other women along with them. [00:35:04][36.7]

[00:35:05] That's one of the statistics and one of the things that just as a personal goal for myself I'm working with right now, one of the things that is appalling is we see when women are promoted into leadership positions, it's fifty one percent less likely that another women woman will be promoted behind them. And so we have this idea of if we see 10 seats on the board and only one is filled by a woman, it's that one seat that we're competing for rather than realizing that there are actually 10 seats. And we need to visualize 10 women. As Ruth Bader Ginsburg said, how many women are too many on the Supreme Court or are enough? And she said nine. So now it's moving in that direction and helping our sisters out and realizing that it's our job to whom much is given. Much is expected to mentor and educate and assist younger women coming up the pipeline rather than excluding them. [00:35:56][51.2]

[00:35:57] And yeah. And being the only one. [00:35:59][2.2]

[00:35:59] Yeah. I mean, who is the change that we need to like? You've got to look forward to the next generation and in coaching and getting more evangelists out there as Microsoft likes to use what is a Microsoft evangelist. [00:36:11][11.9]

[00:36:12] And I was I haven't met one yet, but I just can't wait because I hope they evangelize Microsoft. But I think we need we need more female evangelists. Exactly like you're saying. I think it's the next stage to really changing and and still doing like the grassroots thing, but really changing and leading up people to go out and change their communities is you get those micro influences and things like that happening. That's awesome. That sounds like a really fun three years with you. [00:36:38][26.5]

[00:36:40] So if you ran into someone, let's say it was a young woman or a non binary individual or a female identified anyone other than not a white male, and they came up to you and they said, listen, Christian, I bounced around, said I was going to do some acting. Turns out no. And I I did some great work in DC. [00:37:02][22.3]

[00:37:03] I got my juris doctor and I'm doing some stuff. [00:37:08][4.4]

[00:37:08] I'm looking at it looking around. And I think I'm gonna start a consulting firm. I'm not sure where I'm really at, but I really want to get a superceding inclusion. [00:37:14][5.8]

[00:37:14] What are the top three pieces of advice that you would give that individual if they were starting a diversity and inclusion firm? [00:37:22][7.2]

[00:37:23] First of all, to listen. That's I think when we communicate, we think we're holding conversations. [00:37:29][5.7]

[00:37:29] And what we really need to be doing is taking in with the other person is saying so going to communities and ask them what they need, what they wish was different, what that would look like for them and how they would do it, and then creating a platform and a process in which that can actually happen. So it's going to the audience that you would like to serve or the community would like to serve and asking them what they need. [00:37:53][23.9]

[00:37:55] And I think to it's the other thing that I would I would add to that is you have to take risks and you have to do it before you're ready. I remember when I was first starting off as an entrepreneur, I had dreams of being an entrepreneur and everything had to be perfect before I started and had to look a certain way. And if I was going to make a video, the lighting had to be a certain way. And some of the best advice I got was you need to do it before you're ready. And if you're not embarrassed by your first offering, then you've waited too long. And so just go out there, do it, put it on the table, because that is the best way to learn it. It feels very raw. It feels very vulnerable. I'm not going to tell you that it's comfortable and that it's a great feeling. But but do it anyway. That's where you get the best advice and the best forward momentum. [00:38:42][46.9]

[00:38:43] Absolutely. So, listen, create a platform based on how you can solve your people's client's needs and move before you're ready. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Yeah, I follow is I can't remember if it's LinkedIn or who is it. It's one of the big the big cats in Silicon Valley, but their motto is move quickly before they're engineers. [00:39:09][26.2]

[00:39:10] It's move quickly and break things like that's my mantra. [00:39:13][3.2]

[00:39:14] I love it because it's opposite of everything, especially as women that we've been to like, be quiet, don't touch, don't look, don't break. Don't, don't, don't, don't, boys. We're allowed to be a little bit more rowdy. In fact, they were defended when they were too rowdy. But the idea that someone came forward in their business model of computer programing and said move quickly and break things, it's this idea of like stop tiptoeing around it, like build it fast and then come back in and reanalyze. And I think that what you're saying with your business career is crucial, especially for women or any other underdog. That's coming up. It's like you cannot second guess it and you can't think about the backlash or being shy. You have to just. Yeah, and can I say something to that point? [00:40:01][46.2]

[00:40:01] Because it's interesting, because that motto usually does serve men and it doesn't serve women because of the implicit bias that goes into being female. So educating ourselves on that and then being able to say, would you have said that if I were a man? Because there's this thing called likability versus competence. There's this thing called potential versus accomplishment. There's this thing called the maternal bias. So I don't think you'd be saying that to me if not for and really laying it out there and educating as you're having to push forward and push forward. [00:40:30][29.3]

[00:40:31] Absolutely. I completely agree. I love those three pieces of advice. I think there's something to move forward with for everyone. And I really appreciate you speaking with me today. I know that you are wildly busy and I don't know anybody who isn't. But from your calendar, it looks crazy. And I thank you so much for speaking with us today and lending us your voice and your story and your candor. [00:40:52][21.1]

[00:40:53] Oh, thank you so much for having me. [00:40:54][1.2]

[00:40:54] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, thank you for giving me your time for the past half an hour. And until we speak again, remember to always bet on yourself. Slaínte. [00:40:54][0.0]

[2355.7]

Professional Chronicles with Patricia Kathleen: Recent Episodes

Patricia Kathleen