Latter-day Peace Studies presents: Come, Follow Me: Recent Episodes
Latter-day Peace Studies
Ben Petersen and Shiloh Logan’s long friendship has coalesced around a deeply shared love of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. They’ve spent countless nights together with their families talking about the wonders of hope, love, and peace that come from the gospel of Jesus Christ.
In these podcasts, we are searching for moments to sit with the Divine. As we contemplate each week’s readings, we look for how we can understand and use the Sermon on the Mount and the atonement of Jesus Christ to more fully understand the greater narratives of the scriptures.
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Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudy
Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
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Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudy
Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudy
Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudy
Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudy
Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudy
Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/
Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudy
Latter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
2 Nephi 31-33
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2 Nephi 26-30
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2 Nephi 20-25
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2 Nephi 11–19
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2 Nephi 6-10
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2 Nephi 3-5
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2 Nephi 1-2
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1 Nephi 16–22
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1 Nephi 11-15
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Website: https://www.latterdaypeacestudies.org/Latter-day Peace Studies Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaypeacestudyLatter-day Nonviolence, Pacifism, and Peace Studies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/854473174913930/
1 Nephi 1-5
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Introduction to the Come Follow, Me curriculum for 2024. Dan and Marianne will be co-hosting this year, covering the Book of Mormon.
Ben and Christopher are joined by Riley Risto, co-host of Latter-day Contemplation, and Marianne and Dan, the next co-hosts of Latter-day Peace Studies Presents: Come, Follow Me.Forgive the poor audio quality of this episode. We had some technical difficulties and were pressed for time to publish it.
Ben flies solo in this episode on 2 Samuel and 1 Kings. The reign of David and Solomon are the golden age of Israelite history. Despite civil wars and brutal rebellions, the monarchy persists and grows in its prestige and splendor. David’s sins bring great tragedy and sorrow, but seem to have some profound and timeless lessons. Solomon fulfills his father’s promise to build the temple and the project takes on cosmic themes that remind us of the creation in Genesis.
Ben and Christopher continue with a discussion of the first book of Samuel. The various sources that make up the book portray multiple perspectives on monarchy and the kingship. Saul is anointed as the first king of Israel. His military success initially endears him to the people, but his disobedience causes him to lose favor with Samuel and God. David is anointed to succeed Saul and the narrative recounts stories of his bravery, piety, and military prowess. The story of David and Goliath is the unmistakable source of literary allusion in Nephi’s account of slaying Laban in the Book of Mormon. What might this say about Nephi’s intent, message, inspiration, and actual experience?
The book of Ruth is a love story about a particular kind of love. Hesed is often translated as loving kindness, but it is also loyalty, grace, and courage. It is the kind of love that characterizes the covenant relationship of God with the people or of a man and his wife. Ruth exemplifies hesed in her relationships with Naomi and with Boaz, counting her a worthy ancestor to the Davidic line despite being a foreigner. Hannah pours out her soul to God and is filled. The life of Samuel prepares him for the unique role he will play in transitioning Israel from being ruled by judges to being ruled by kings.
The book of Judges traces a pseudo-history of the Israelites after the conquest of Joshua. Israelite judges are more often legendary military heroes than arbitrators of justice. The people follow a cycle of obedience, success, idolatry, bondage, and deliverance. The message is that while God will always deliver his people, the cycle of disorder and bondage can only be broken by a centralized monarchy. “There was no king in Israel” foreshadows the arrival of an anointed king and also evokes a Christological hermeneutic. The symbolism of trees returns in the account of the prophetess Deborah, the calling of Gideon, and the fable of the trees in search of a king. The stage is set for the book of Samuel and the creation of the Israelite monarchy.
The Book of Joshua recounts the Israelites’ story of their conquest of Canaan. The Israelites are tasked with creating a sacred space for God’s presence. Ben and Christopher discuss the perennial question of Divine Genocide as presented in the text. How does the rhetoric of the text match up with actual known history? If the Israelites didn’t actually kill the Canaanites en masse, then why does the text say they did? What does the Book of Joshua have to say to modern peace-loving Christians?
Deuteronomy, Devarim, Words. Moses’ words recall his uneasy relationship with speech all the way back to his conversation with God at the burning bush. Moses recounts Israelite history from the Exodus on, continually reiterating that he will not cross into the promised land with his people. This melancholy reminiscing of Moses is likely a product of later editors who crafted this text to fit their contemporary religious reforms around the 7th Century BC. God is more narrowly defined and religious practice is centralized under the authority of the temple priests. This context provides interesting possibilities for the narrative of Lehi and his family in the Book of Mormon. To what degree might Lehi’s persecution be for what are deemed by the Deuteronomistic reformers to be unorthodox beliefs and religious practices? How might Nephi’s vision of the Tree of Life relate to the Divine Feminine that is so systematically subverted in Deuteronomy? This final book of the Torah calls for interpretation as much as it is itself a complex work of reinterpretation and reform of the Israelite tradition.
Numbers, Bamidbar, In the Wilderness. The children of Israel journey in the wilderness, encountering death, failure, rebellion, and hope. In this largely imagined past there are profound ties to psychological and philosophical questions. Moses struggles with his responsibility as leader and prophet while the people murmur. The threat and reality of divine violence are ever-present, even when God’s mercy and love shine through the cracks. The staff of Moses has been a consistent symbol of divine authority and force, but does God have a new way to offer Moses that involves persuasion and gentleness through speech? The Brazen Serpent is raised in the wilderness, offering to heal all who look and typifying the persona of Christ. How are we to perceive divine violence in scripture, even when it is explicitly justified in the text?
Can we properly understand the Old Testament if we skip reading some of its chapters? In this longer-than-usual episode, Ben and Christopher tackle Exodus 35-40 and the entire book of Leviticus. This intimidating section of scripture was difficult to approach, but with some help from the great Rob Bell, much of the seemingly irrelevant and bizarre has taken on relevance and profound meaning. In this Priestly manual, the sons of Aaron are invited to participate in the tending of the sacred space created in the Tabernacle as part of a new creation extending beyond it. Israel is called to be this new creation because the LORD has delivered them from slavery in Egypt. Their new system and society respond to the injustices of their captivity, establishing the weekly, seventh-year, and 50th-year (Jubilee) Sabbaths as signs of Israel’s covenant relationship with the LORD. All of this in about an hour and a half. As a bonus, Ben and Christopher spend about half an hour more responding to the above question, first raised by Christopher’s daughter (though already on Christopher and Ben’s minds) by delving deeper into what scripture is, and what to do with it in our own covenant relationship with the LORD.
Ben and Christopher discuss the laws put forth in the Book of the Covenant. These laws have an Ancient Near Eastern context mirrored in contemporary legal codes in the same context. The general exceptions are in how they treat the disadvantaged of society. Nephi’s killing of Laban finds its justification in these verses. The LORD gives instruction on how to construct the tabernacle, being a representation of the cosmos in creation and Eden. Moses wins an argument with God after the people worship before a golden calf. What are we to understand about God and His relationship with the people from this event?
Moses and the Children of Israel have been delivered from slavery and brought out of Egypt by the power of the LORD. As Moses struggles to bring the people into a relationship with the LORD, he receives wise counsel from his father-in-law Jethro: By creating a bureaucracy, Moses might better govern the people. While this counsel is timely and practical, it also leads to the loss of a deeper experience and relationship Moses was modeling. The Messianic type here is reminiscent of the ministry of Jesus. What moments with God do we lose out on in our daily quests for efficiency? As Moses ascends Mount Sinai, the people are invited to follow him, but they are fearful of the presence of the LORD. They content themselves with second-hand expressions of the divine experience. Do we? The Ten Commandments provide a model for how we might approach scripture avoiding common pitfalls in our approach to interpreting it.
Ben and Christopher combine two weeks’ readings into one podcast on the core of the Exodus narrative. The LORD afflicts Egypt with 10 plagues before Pharaoh agrees to let the Israelites go. The God of the Hebrews triumphs over all others and displays his matchless power in their deliverance. The narrative is summarized and repeated in the poetic verse of chapter 15, which is likely a much earlier source of the story that could be attributed to Miriam as a prophet. The LORD continues to deliver his people in the wilderness from thirst, hunger, and enemies.
In this episode, we begin the Book of Exodus. God begins to fulfill the promises made to the patriarchs when he raises up Moses to lead his people out of bondage in Egypt, and while they won’t make it to the promised land until the Book of Joshua, Exodus provides the foundational story of the creation of the nation of Israel.
The Book of Exodus can be divided into three parts: First, we witness the power of the Lord as he extends his arm against Pharaoh, sending the ten plagues and finally parting the Sea of Reeds, which swallows up Pharoah and his army, letting Moses and the Israelites escape into the wilderness. In the second part, Moses will ascend Mount Sinai and receive the law (Torah). The final section of the book is devoted to the construction and description of the tabernacle, or the portable temple the Israelites will carry with them over the next 38 years they spend in the desert.
A three-part division is also seen in the Sinai episode where the people are gathered at the bottom, the elders are part way up, and Moses is on top speaking with God. We see a similar tripartite division in the third section’s description of the tabernacle with its courtyard, Holy Place, and the Holy of Holies.
Later mystics and teachers would use these three-fold divisions to describe the soul’s journey to God, labeling the stages with terms such as ‘purification,’ contemplation,’ and ‘union’.
After giving a brief overview of Exodus, we discuss some of the main themes of the book as a whole, and briefly touch on their importance for Israelite religion, later scripture and theology, mysticism, and world literature.
This week’s reading, chapters 1-6, gives us the background to the story of Moses, with his people enslaved and him in Pharaoh’s court. His life takes a drastic turn when he kills a man and has to flee to the desert where he marries Zipporah and lives with his father-in-law, Jethro, as a lowly shepherd. God speaks to him from a bush that burns without being consumed and calls him to lead his people out of Egypt so they can serve Him instead of Pharaoh. God overcomes all of Moses’ objections, reveals to him the name by which He will henceforth be known, and Moses makes his first attempt to convince Pharaoh, which fails miserably and makes the situation even worse for the Israelites.
As promised in the podcast, here is a link to an article describing the connection between the Feast of Trumpets and the giving of the gold plates to Joseph Smith.
The story of Joseph in Egypt is found in texts outside the Bible. Not only do we see it woven deeply into the Book of Mormon narrative, but the account in the Qur’an adds fascinating details. Comparing and contrasting these narratives, Ben and Christopher develop the central point of the story: forgiveness. Despite all that has happened to him, Joseph finally sees God’s influence in bringing about the salvation of his family from famine. Even if not every single thing that happens to Joseph is specifically orchestrated by God, Joseph’s willingness to forgive his brothers is ultimately the mechanism by which God works the miracle of reuniting and saving his family from destruction, keeping his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
This week the Come Follow Me curriculum omits a few chapters in Genesis. Ben and Christopher discuss these anyway since they touch on important themes. Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah in turn all make choices that put their legitimacy as heirs in question. Jacob returns to Bethel to establish a mode akin to temple worship. Isaac dies, and the presence of both Esau and Jacob hints at final reconciliation between the brothers. Joseph’s story begins, interrupted by the narrative of Judah’s impropriety. This contrasts with Joseph’s character and legitimacy as the heir of the birthright of Israel. Joseph is sold into Egypt and the Lord is with him through it all. Joseph’s story is a fundamental narrative underpinning the story of the Nephites in the Book of Mormon and the development of the Latter-day Saint ethos.
The story of Jacob repeats previous themes from the stories of Abraham and Isaac. How does Jacob view his relationship with God and others and how do these relationships affect each other? Why might Jacob struggle to forgive and what other things does Jacob struggle with before and after being named Israel (one who struggles/strives/perseveres with God)? Jacob often fears the outcomes of situations that work themselves out. Does Jacob learn to trust God?
As Abraham’s heir, Isaac models the same values of peacemaking and hospitality as his father. Rebekah is an example of these values and is sought as a wife for Isaac. Previous themes of Genesis re-emerge in these chapters. Jacob receives the birthright even though he is the younger son. Jacob and Esau echo the story of Cain and Abel.
The story of Abraham continues with the narrative of Lot and the destruction of Sodom. The ambiguity of the characters and conversations makes interpreting events difficult. Abraham models appropriate hospitality while Lot imitates it. Ben offers a potential historical reading of the Sodom account that might help explain the strange sequence of events. What was the explicit sin of Sodom as opposed to the traditional view? Did God really command Abraham to sacrifice his son? Christopher brings in additional versions of the story from other traditions. Studying these additional versions and the story of Abraham in The Pearl of Great Price opens up a new interpretation. Might we be reading both too much and too little into this story?
The Biblical narrative of Abraham follows a chiasmic structure common to ancient Hebrew literature. Events proceed to a climax and then repeat in reverse order. The Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price offers some enriching perspective to the overall story and highlights the key concept of Priesthood as a recurring theme and mode. Abraham is not only blessed, but is given the responsibility to bless all of humanity. The climax of the narrative centers on an unlikely person and offers profound insight into the character of God and his mercy. What is Abraham learning about God and what is significant about his literal and spiritual journey?
Readers of the Bible have wrestled with the narrative of the flood for centuries. How do we approach a text that portrays a God who does such things? What deeper understanding can we see in the symbolism of the story that doesn't require us to view God as vengeful and angry? In attempting to answer this question, a pattern of order, disorder, non-order, and reorder emerges. How does the text of the narratives of Noah and the Tower of Babel reveal an evolving understanding of God and humanity's relationship with the Divine?
Ben is joined by guest Dan Meehan in a discussion of Moses 7, the second half of the canonized “Book of Enoch”. In his vision of the divine, Enoch sees a God who expresses emotion and feels sorrow. Enoch experiences the vastness of eternity and comes to know the bitterness of hell, as well as a fullness of joy. This chapter touches on some difficult themes that are often related to racism in scripture. What might these verses have meant to the early Saints and what can they mean to us today? Zion is taken up in process of time and Dan proposes an alternate interpretation of this concept that fits well with the common scriptural narratives of testimony and non-violence.
Christopher and Ben return to the previous week’s reading to touch on some themes from the Garden of Eden: trees, cherubim, and the flaming sword. The genealogy put forward in Genesis 5 presents more questions than answers about ante-diluvian longevity. The Book of Enoch as recorded in our canonized Book of Moses is but one of many Books of Enoch that have come to light over the centuries. The narratives and themes it presents are both unique to the Latter-day Saint tradition and similar to other apocryphal texts. What pearls of meaning do we find in the story of Enoch, his travels, his calling as a prophet, and his sermon on the baptism of “Adam”? Once again, we are invited to consider ourselves as Adam and Eve.
In approaching Genesis 3-4 and Moses 4-5, Ben and Christopher continue their discussion of these creation and fall accounts as temple texts. We are to consider ourselves as Adam and Eve, recognizing our life in their experience in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve are created as ontological equals, as priest and priestess in the presence of God. What is a serpent doing in the Garden and why do our narratives equate the serpent with Satan? What can we learn from the differences between how Adam and Eve converse with God versus how Cain converses with God?
The Latter-day Saint tradition has canonized five different creation accounts. Despite intriguing differences, each of them can function liturgically—as does the temple account in temple worship. Christopher and Ben discuss all four creation accounts as descriptions of the dedication of the cosmos to God’s purposes rather than accounts of material origins. The teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the manner of dedicating a temple in antiquity fit well with this understanding of creation accounts. In discussing these creation accounts, Ben and Christopher lay a foundation for a discussion of humanity’s place in the cosmos and God’s purposes for humanity in the next episode.
Moses 1 and Abraham 3 both give accounts of an experience of God and of God’s creation. Each is a prologue to a corresponding creation account. In this episode, Ben and Christopher raise and answer questions about God’s purposes in creation and how and where humanity finds its place in the cosmos. Moses’ encounter with Satan opens up a discussion about our own psychological experiences. Ben and Christopher lay the foundation in this episode for a discussion of the purpose of the four differing creation accounts in LDS scripture in the next episode.
Ben and Christopher begin this year’s LDPS Presents: Come, Follow Me podcast on the Old Testament by introducing themselves and their background for Old Testament studies. They cover where they’re coming from, how they’ll be approaching the Old Testament, and where they’re going with their approach. This wide-ranging discussion deals with many of the questions on the minds of Latter-day Saints approaching the Old Testament such as: What is the Bible, or even scripture, in general, and the Old Testament in particular, and what do we do with them? How does revelation work? Who were the authors and what are the genres of the books that make up the library we call “the Bible” and what was the context and purpose of those authors in writing the texts? Who later chose which books would be included in the Bible and which would be excluded and why? What role did manuscripts and translation play in this process of canonization and continue to play in ongoing reading and interpretation of the Bible? What are apocryphal and pseudepigraphical texts and what do we do with them? What assumptions are made by ancient interpreters of the Bible that were carried forward in Christian history and are still with us today in the Church? How will Christopher and Ben read and interpret the Old Testament applying nonviolent hermeneutics to deal with “the angry violent God of the Old Testament”? How does Ancient-Near-Eastern thought differ from modern Western thought and what does that mean for reading and interpreting the Bible? What are the major themes of the Bible? And finally, what do we do with modern critical Biblical scholarship in faithfully reading the Bible?
This is an unusually long episode for LDPS Presents: Come, Follow Me, but it is well worth the listen in coming to terms with the Old Testament before jumping into the reading.
Intro/Outro: Sweeper by Blue Dot Sessions
Ben and Shiloh close out this year’s discussion on the Doctrine and Covenants and Church history with guest co-host Christopher Hurtado. It is evident in many places throughout Joseph Smith’s life just how much of an impact the death of his older brother, Alvin, had on the way that Joseph saw the world. Section 137 gives us a lot of things to think about concerning how Joseph saw and experienced what he called were his “visions”. In this section, while in vision, Joseph sees the great things and the great people in the celestial realm, and he even sees his parents there. It is interesting that his parents are still alive on earth while Joseph is having this vision of the celestial kingdom. Yet, it is not even the fact that he sees his parents in this glorious realm prior to their death that seems out of place for Joseph, but it is upon seeing Alvin in the celestial world (without having been baptized on earth) that seems to stop Joseph in his tracks mid-vision. What can this tell us about Joseph and his understanding of family, earth, and heaven? What Section 137 opens the door of understanding to, Section 138 elaborates upon gives greater awareness to what happens beyond the grave. As we close out our discussions on the Doctrine and Covenants, everyone reflects on their favorite episode, moment, or learning experience throughout the last year, and they have some exciting announcements for next year’s Come, Follow Me episodes for Old Testament!
Shiloh and Ben discuss some historical context and the memorial passage from John Taylor dedicated to Joseph Smith after his death in Carthage, IL. How we remember and memorialize those who have come before us are powerful tools in how we frame current identities, and how we remember and memorialize Joseph Smith still speaks to the strong identity that Latter-day Saints have to the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is an interesting shift between Joseph and Brigham between Sections 135 and 136, and in 136 we see Brigham taking practical advice and standards that the Saints should keep and observe along the long journey westward and adding a sacred modality and meaning to these standards. This says much in how we, today, add meaning to our own observances and in we choose to have gratitude in seeing God in the little and big things in our lives.
Ben and Shiloh discuss the many repeating themes found in Section 133 from the beginning of the D&C, and they muse over how Section 133 is an interesting original bookend following Section 132. This is as if to show that Section 133 is how things start, and Section 132 is how things ended in Joseph’s experience as the leader of the Church. The “declaration of belief” concerning government found in Section 135 has an interesting historical context to the Saints when it was first written and voted on by the Saints while Joseph was away. It shows a very interesting window into the beliefs of the early Saints concerning how they saw themselves as Americans in not only belief and socio-political identity but as the literal embodiment of the virtues portrayed in American Republicanism.
Shiloh and Ben discuss the instructions given from Joseph Smith to the Church concerning how to deal with angels, the physical nature of God, the state of the earth during the millennium, and other end-of-days prophecies. The “revelation” on polygamy pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, written by Joseph directly to Emma, merits a bit of historical context. Polygamy is never an easy discussion, and there is still currently a lot of pain and trauma silently endured by Church members concerning these narratives and doctrines. The Church still believes in and continues to practice polygamy today. As one church leader once told Shiloh: “The church still believes in and practices polygamy, but they just practice it one wife at a time”. These doctrines, beliefs, and practices still impact Church members’ identities and views of eternity today, and not always in positive ways.
Ben and Shiloh talk about the letters from Joseph Smith to the Church while he was in hiding concerning the new and unique doctrine of baptism for the dead. These letters show an increasing complexity in Joseph’s understanding of the “Mormon Cosmology” and in how the Plan of Salvation operates. By the time these letters were written in 1842, Joseph had already started secretly engaging in the practice of plural marriage (showing that he had been thinking of the eternal nature of men and women and of humanity’s eternal relationships) and had participated in the rites of the newly established Freemasonry lodge in Nauvoo (which added a new layer of symbolism, rite, and ritual than was ever presented to him before). Additionally, the pain and trauma of losing his brother Alvin had strongly impacted Joseph throughout his entire life. Before Joseph was able to obtain the gold plates, Alvin died rather suddenly prior to choosing to be baptized into any local church. At his funeral, William Smith (Alvin’s and Joseph’s brother) wrote that the Presbyterian minister who presided over the funeral had “intimated very strongly that he [Alvin] had gone to hell, for Alvin was not a church member”. Years later, after the Kirtland Temple dedication, Joseph received a vision wherein he saw Alvin in the Celestial kingdom, and Joseph wondered how Alvin could be in heaven given that he had never been baptized. Joseph was instructed in the vision that those who had died without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ would have the opportunity of hearing it in the next life. As Joseph would later contemplate over certain passages in the Bible (as shown in Section 128), he mused that “the baptism for the dead” was a “subject [that] seems to occupy my mind, and press itself upon my feelings the strongest.” This is interesting wording and a unique and rare insight into how Joseph received his own divine inspiration. Certainly, we can see that Joseph had used the love and memory of his brother as a mode to find further insight from the divine.
Shiloh and guest co-host Christopher Hurtado talk about the early Saints’ consistent divine call to create sacred space. Whether in Kirtland, Jackson County, Caldwell County, Daviess County, or Nauvoo, the Saints are instructed to construct a temple in order to perform sacred ordinances or to have revealed sacred things. When, in the New Testament, the Jews asked for a sign of authority for Jesus Christ’s actions in driving out the money changers of the temple, he answered by saying “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The people, thinking he was talking about the physical temple of stone, did not understand that “he spake of the temple of his body” (John 2:13-22). The temple is symbolic of each of us individually and of our own sacred journey. Each act in the sacred temple drama is our own story. By commanding an outward and physical edifice to perform sacred rites, rituals, and ordinances, God is presenting an outward observation of our own inward sacred, divine adventure. But what is the “sacred” and how is it created? Is it an objective thing in and of itself (sui generis) that we can step into and out of by our choices (sui generis)? Is it something that we create, experience, and deem as sacred? Perhaps it is a combination of these two things? But what would that even mean or even look like?
Ben and Shiloh are excited to talk about D&C 121, and they find that there are always new rich and beneficial conversations about the scriptures whenever we approach them with excitement. This week’s readings come from the time when Joseph and his companions were in Liberty Jail. Liberty Jail becomes a pivotal moment in Joseph’s life as he is not really the same person who comes out of that experience as he was when he went into it. In these particular sections we can see, hear, and feel Joseph’s trauma, and we can see that God is responding to and comforting Joseph in specific ways that are unique to his own fears, pain, and worldview. By seeing D&C 121 as God’s comforting Joseph’s particular fears and concerns in a language and way that Joseph comprehends, we can more clearly make sense as to the stark transitions that this section makes from a seemingly wrathful, vengeful, and spiteful God that doesn’t seem to necessarily follow through on his wrath to a comforting God that speaks of his own cosmic power and authority in terms of persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, love, kindness, and pure knowledge that are all without compulsory means. What do we as a community actually know about the priesthood? We have all had many lessons about the differences between the power and authority of the priesthood, supporting the priesthood, and the administration of the rites/ordinances of the priesthood, but D&C 121 offers a very unique moment in discussing the meta-narrative and principle of God’s priesthood.
Shiloh and Ben discuss some history of the early Saints’ early persecution that is not often talked about in Sunday school. These sections comprise the period in Missouri after the Saints left Kirtland in 1837 until the Missouri “Extermination Order” in October 1838. While the relationship between the early Saints and the Missourians was not perfect in 1838 it was functional and, some historians argue, had begun to heal and mend since the Jackson County expulsion in 1834 and the Clay County expulsion in 1836. However, relationships between the Saints and their Missouri neighbors took a radical downturn in the summer and fall of 1838 leading to Governor Boggs’ famous Executive Order 44 (the “Extermination Order”) that forced Mormon settlers out of Missouri in late October of 1838. While the legality and judiciousness of this Order was in question even in Boggs’ day among many Missourians it was not signed and administered in a vacuum. While the mass expulsion of an entire community—depriving them of their legally protected natural rights—is unjustifiable, there were many actions performed by the Saints (and the Danite vigilante group) that gave many substantive reasons for the Missourians’ and the Governor’s legitimate concern about the growing population of Mormon settlers in the region.
Update This is the updated episode. We apologize that the previous Episode 71 somehow accidentally cut off approx. 10 minutes early.
Ben is joined again by Christopher Hurtado in a discussion about D&C Sections 111-114. The Saints are anxious about their future and ability to establish the Church according to the revelations. The Lord tells them that they need not be concerned with outcomes. He will take care of their debts and the destiny of Zion. They are invited to simply labor with Him. They are to take of their cross and feed His sheep. As we take upon ourselves the name of Christ, the scriptures about Christ become scriptures about us. The priesthood is the power of God to redeem Zion through gentleness, meekness, and love, without compulsion. How does God offer us power versus how the world offers power?
Ben is joined by Christopher Hurtado for a discussion about the Kirtland Temple dedication. How did the early Saints view the temple and what does the Lord invite us to by way of the symbolism of the temple itself? Does God need a building or is the structure a mode by which we manifest our intention as a people? Prayer is often perceived as a way to inform or persuade God, but if God’s knowledge and will are perfect, prayer can only be a mode of changing us and our perceptions to align with God’s. How does Joseph Smith’s dedicatory prayer show us a pattern of worship and prayer? What can contradictions and inconsistencies teach us about the purpose of prayer? What is the veil that covers our minds and how are we to understand the purpose of the appearance of Jesus and other prophets in the Kirtland temple?
Shiloh is joined with guest co-host Christopher Hurtado to discuss modality in terms of the priesthood. Modes are, in a sense, stories that we believe in as real and that we pour our intentionality into to produce experiences. By “story” it is not necessarily to say a “fiction,” but it is a narrative that frames our belief(s) and that we combine with our faith unto action. When we say something as simple as “I am going to go pray to God,” we often do not take into account the richness and complexities of the assumed stories and expectations that go into that short phrase. In that statement is the assumption of what we construct as the “I” (the thinking, acting, believing, and producing thing that is conscious and aware), the assertion that the “I” has intentionality and that that intentionality and hope matters, that there is a “God” (and all of the beliefs, assumptions, expectations, experiences, and thoughts of what that entails), that we are in an important relationship to this “God,” and that this “God” is of a type of entity, being, or thing that cares or is in response to our own intentionality and purpose to have a conversation. Just the simple concept of “prayer” is a rich story full of narratives, experiences, assumptions, and expectations. So, what of “priesthood”? Modality is not the only way to think of priesthood, but it certainly opens a new discussion than what we typically have in recognizing the richness of that conversation and of the sometimes unexamined assumptions and beliefs that we have concerning this part of our religious experience.
Ben and Shiloh discuss some of the history and context of Zion’s Camp. These were unprecedented times for the early Saints, and there was a lot of uncertainty about the problems in Missouri. Were they to abandon Jackson County entirely? But what of the prophecies of the New Jerusalem there? How would they get their property back? Would they have to fight? Would the law support them? The Missouri governor, Governor Dunklin, was somewhat sympathetic to the Saints and had made certain promises to help them regain their land, but these promises ultimately failed. There was a lot of violent rhetoric and metaphor used by the Saints and church leaders right up to the point of actually committing violence. Their confusion in what the Lord wanted from them is understandable. The Lord commanded that “the redemption of Zion must needs come by power” (D&C 103:15), but the Lord stops short at defining what kind of “power” he means. Was it the power of the sword? Of the law? Of… what? To add to the seeming confusion, the Lord states that his “presence” would be with the Saints “in avenging me of mine enemies” (D&C 103:26), but the Lord stops short at defining what “avenging me of mine enemies” entails. And then something interesting happens: the violent rhetoric turns to divine commands to “sue for peace, not only to the people that have smitten you, but also to all people” (D&C 105:38). How are we to make sense of all of this? Is it possible that the Lord never intended violence at all and that something else entirely was going on? How does the Lord avenge himself of his enemies?
Shiloh and Ben open up about their experiences in studying the Constitution as BYU students and their journey into peace studies. Section 98 is a type of bridge in their life between the Lord’s justification of his people to follow the principles in the Constitution that protects the rights and freedoms of all people and the Lord’s command to “renounce war and proclaim peace.” How often do we really “renounce war,” and does it mean to “proclaim peace.” How often do we unwittingly assume that “peace” is what naturally follows when everyone finally agrees with us? How often do we think that “peace” is what Jesus Christ brings when he returns to violently kill all of the violently evil on the earth? Are there no tools that God has given us to preach and establish peace during times of contention and warfare? Are we to only “renounce war and proclaim peace” in times of “peace”? What does it mean and what would it look like to “renounce war and proclaim peace” during wartime, and how popular would that be? There are always justifications for war. There are always reasons that we can deem the justice and rightness of our particular cause. War is rarely lacking for initial supporters. What answers, if anything, can the Sermon on the Mount provide us to answer these questions?
Ben and Shiloh discuss the concepts of “unclean” and “chasten.” Are these concepts to be taken as metaphysical reality, or are they epistemic ideas that help us break through the layers of perception of the false self? The gospel of Jesus Christ provides many modalities of experiencing God, and in the restored gospel narrative, such as in Section 89 with the Word of Wisdom, we have a front seat view in learning how many of these modes are created. As we pour our intentionality into these modes, we awaken and are made aware of the reality of God that is always already existent around us at all times. God’s work leaves nothing to waste, and all of His creation is reincorporated back and into His purposes.
Shiloh and Ben discuss topics of truth, grace, light, intelligence, God’s nature, knowledge, agency, glory, the spirit, Satan’s nature, the true/false self, obedience, and family obligations. There is a lot to unpack in Section 93’s few pages. In our religious observances, it is common to ponder over the question of God’s existence. It would seem that the most powerful experience we could have in this life would be to actually see and physically converse with God face-to-face. But is this really so? Consider the many theophanies documented in the scriptures. The rapturous and celestial event fades away and the person is left again to its own devices, weaknesses, and reality. While the memory of the event may remain, the day-to-day struggles impact the same after as before the divine manifestation. Individual nature is not forever changed by these angelic or divine manifestations. So, is seeing the face of God really such a long-lasting and transformative experience? What types of experiences are long-lasting and transformative? The 6th Beatitude tells us that the pure in heart will see the face of God, yet there are still Beatitudes beyond God’s appearance to experience. Are there possibly metaphorical ways that we can experience and see the face of God that is more transformative than a direct heavenly visitation?
Ben and Shiloh talk about the Word of Wisdom and in how we create our modes of worship. The Word of Wisdom is a fascinating conversation, but it is often criticized because of its seeming inconsistencies. The Word of Wisdom has evolved and has been through various revisions, interpretations, and levels of enforcement, and this has sometimes caused a lack of belief in its importance or its power. However, when we understand the Word of Wisdom by means of creating religious modality, we can also create space for historical changes and nuance while also strengthening our choice to adhere to the Word of Wisdom. Any seeming incongruity or inconsistency in our modes of worship need not necessarily derail or detract us from finding deep meaning and purpose in those modes that we experience God through.
Shiloh and Ben talk about the law and light of Christ. We often think of “law” as a list of rules and standards, but does D&C 88 offer us a new insight into the nature of God’s law that isn’t commonly addressed? In what possible ways does understanding that the “light of Christ”—which is in and through all things”—is the law by which all things are governed” change the way that we view the law? Here in D&C 88 we also have a rather rare short description of the nature of God that describes God’s omniscience, omnipresence, and a type of panentheism that we don’t commonly equate to an embodied God. Is it possible that the parable in D&C 88 also offers a glimpse into a universalist understanding of God where the various “degrees of light” often metaphysically equated to the three degrees of glory has more to do with our perception of those glories than of the metaphysical nature of those glories?
Ben and Shiloh discuss the parable of the wheat and the tares as found in Matthew 13 and D&C 86. A common interpretation of this parable is that the “wheat” and the “tares” are people, and in this interpretation, we typically include ourselves as wheat and those who we disagree with or who are not living our standards as tares. However, is this really the point of the parable? How often do our interpretations and assumptions of scripture serve to unnecessarily “otherize” us from our brothers and sisters? What if the point of this parable was not to “otherize” but to show how God leads, guides, and builds each of his children with compassion, patience, and watchful care? How can we learn from this parable of the universal and unconditional love of God that leads his children out of sin not through guilt, shame, or punishment but through charity, reconciliation, and unity? What would that even look like?
Shiloh and Ben talk about the many ascension themes on priesthood found in Section 84 and compare these themes to Section 76. Whether discussing priesthood, the kingdoms of glory, the Beatitudes, or temple ordinances, the theme of ascension plays a prominent and central role in scripture and in our religious experiences. But what is this “ascension” talking about? Is it only or mostly metaphysical? That certainly seems to be the way that we discuss these themes when they appear. However, what could be gained and seen if we look at these themes in terms of epistemology? What if, metaphysically speaking, we were always already worthy and that repentance and our construct of “worthiness” was a matter of our perception and worldview? What if our construct and idea of “sin” was far more epistemic than metaphysic? What would that look like? Would it necessarily tail-spin our theology into hopeless relativity or “eat drink and be merry” hedonism? Does the way we perceive reality have more to do with our behavior than what reality is itself?
Ben and Shiloh talk about the love, mercy, and compassion of God in our weakness. How often do we find ourselves believing that disappointment, pain, struggle, or sadness are because of our sin and wickedness and that if we were just more righteous then we would be happy, joyful, and always feel like rejoicing? How often in our weakness, self-accusation, and trauma do we imagine a God that is various shades of disappointed in us or that is disinterested in our pain and struggles because we deserve the consequences for our actions? What if pain, struggling, sadness, etc., were not merely the consequences of sin and wickedness, and what if the idea of a disappointed and apathetic God was not God’s nature at all? What would change in our behavior if we knew that we were always already completely, fully, and unconditionally loved by God and that what was needed was merely for us to recognize, believe, and experience this love uniquely in our own lives? What if we don’t have to bind God down to bless us, but what if God is naturally and hyper-actively vigilant in creating that which is good in our lives at all times and places? What if we didn’t have to use covenants to hold God’s feet to the fire to bless us in ways that God wouldn’t bless us otherwise, but what if covenants were merely modalities (read: ways and means) by which we can overcome our own fear, distrust, and unbelief in God’s already hyper-active work in our own lives?
Shiloh and Ben discuss revelation. What is it? How did Joseph report receiving it? What is it like in our own lives? How we view revelation also influences how we view and experience the scriptures. It has been said that the scriptures are always true, and sometimes the scriptures are even historical. What does this mean? Is the truthfulness of scripture primarily held in their historical literalness, or is there a way to view scripture that makes them even more true for reasons beyond whether the stories literally happened as they are told? How scripture is made is a history in itself as we learn discussing the history of the “United Order/Firm.”
Ben and Christopher undertake a discussion of section 76, known as “The Vision”. The content and implications of this section can be intimidating. D&C 76 delves into the narrative of life after death and the concept of the degrees of glory. They discuss various ways we can understand and contextualize this doctrine. Is this a strictly metaphysical reality that we will experience after death? Or is there something to be said for an eternal-now epistemic experience as it relates to varying degrees of glory? What does this vision tell us about the nature of salvation and our destiny as children of a supremely loving God?
Shiloh and Ben open up a discussion about the scriptural-based idea of “shame” and what it means to “speak our trauma.” The Lord commands the early Saints to “confound your enemies” privately and publicly, and through our faithfulness our enemies’ shame will be demonstrated and “made manifest” (D&C 71:7). There are many things to unpack from this verse alone in how the Lord posits “enemies” and “shame,” but is this verse as simple as it sounds? There are many assumptions that we make in our interpretations that are unwittingly culturally informed. Through modern scholarship, we can see another way that we do this in how we approach the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. Was Joseph’s “translation” an actual translation? Did Joseph borrow from modern sources? Was it a combination of both?
Ben and Shiloh discuss how God pours through the pages of modern revelation even while sometimes awkwardly through the voice of those who receive and dictate the revelation. During this time in Church history, Joseph Smith and others had been compiling the revelations together to print them in the Book of Commandments. As the time approached to write the preface for the Book of Commandments, there was some disagreement among the early leaders of the Church as to who should write it. A few brethren did not like the language Joseph used. These brethren were then challenged to write a preface and revelation of their own that they thought surpassed Joseph. It didn’t go well, and Joseph’s preface stood (see our first podcast of the year—Episode 32—for more insights into the subtle intricacies of Section 1: The Preface and in what it means for the Book of Commandments). While much of Joseph’s own vernacular, idioms, and popular phrases entered into much of the early revelations, and while we see much in the Doctrine and Covenants (as well as scripture in general) of how the Lord spoke directly to the needs of the early Saints in their own time and understanding (which is quite different than our own), it is up to us to glean and interpret what God’s meaning is for us today through these scriptures by the companionship and voice of the Holy Spirit.
Shiloh and Ben have a discussion concerning the assumptions underlying the principle of forgiveness. What is forgiveness? What assumptions does the false-self make that forgiveness releases us from in manifesting and recognizing the true-self? At least in part, forgiveness is the giving over and releasing of the feelings of anger, resentment, or judgment caused by trauma that we perceive has been inflicted upon us by another. But what does this say to God’s forgiveness? Do we inflict trauma upon God? Or is God’s forgiveness something else entirely? If it is something else entirely, then is there something for us to learn and to expand in how we perceive and utilize forgiveness in our own lives? We often think that we have offended God and that God forgives us for this offense, but to think that God is offended in the same way that we are and forgives for the same reasons that we do causes many complications. Yet, underlying the way we generally speak of God is an implicit perception of an angry, wrathful, and vengeful God that comes against us for our sins, and that we satiate God’s wrath and destruction (e.g., “the burning” as talked about in D&C 64:24) through our obedience that qualifies us for His love. Is this really, however, the best way to understand these scriptures? Is this really what God is trying to communicate with these verses?
Ben and Shiloh open up a discussion on Section 63. The early Saints “in these infant days of the Church” sought for the word and direction of God for every particular thing. They sought for temporal answers for how to build Zion and the Lord responds with spiritual direction.
Shiloh joins with guest co-host Christopher Hurtado to discuss and question the nature of God. Is God as wrathful, vengeful, and angry as the scriptures say that God is? Why is God angry with and ready to destroy people in one area for one type of sin but seemingly more lax or merciful with others committing far more grievous errors? We know that we are only responsible for the truth and commandments that we know, but does this really explain the complexities of a God that is still so seemingly inconsistent? Is there room in these scriptures for us to learn to see God differently? Is there enough space for us to consider that perhaps God’s wrath, vengeance, and anger have more to do with our own perception(s) about God than it actually has to do with God’s true and eternal nature? Is God as transactional and as quid pro quo as scripture often makes God seem, or is God’s transactional nature more about a projection of the way that we already view ourselves? What do our views of God tell us about ourselves? Rather than seeing and experiencing a purely transactional God, what if we see and experience a universally transformational and unconditionally loving God that is not wrathful, vengeful, and angry in the way that we generally attribute to God in scripture, then what does that say about how we also are learning to see ourselves?
Guest co-host Christopher Hurtado fills in for Ben and talks with Shiloh about meaning and identity. It is prior to and through suffering and sacrifice narratives—”For after much tribulation”—that we create meaning of traumatic experiences that form the strongest aspects of our identities. In August of 1831, the early Saints were still learning what their new identity was and what it means to belong to “Church of Christ” (the formal name of the church that we know today—the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—wasn’t revealed until 1838). God reveals the first foundational principles of the Saints’ relationship with secular government, and it varies from known axioms of political philosophy. From D&C 58 we learn that the Saints were to be “subject to the powers that be” not out of any civic obligation or matter social utility but because God had commanded. This conversation has an old and deep intellectual history in Augustine’s City of God and City of Man distinctions that would later be addressed by Aquinas and Luther/Calvin. What does it mean that “God is offended”? Can God really be “offended” as we experience offense? Elder Bednar has said that being offended is a choice, so does God choose to be offended or is there something of about D&C 59:21 that calls for greater clarification?
Christopher Hurtado joins Ben again this time in a discussion of D&C sections 51-57. The Saints of New York were commanded to move to Ohio and settle on the land of Leman Copley. Leman promised to consecrate the land to the church but later returned to the Shakers and revoked his promise. The Saints were commanded to leave rather than contend for the land. What identities of ours are tied to membership in the church? How do those identities affect our relationships with others? How does this relate to the principle of consecration as the early saints experienced it versus how we may experience it now? What role do ordinances play in our religious experience? How can we develop individually and uniquely in our relationship with God while maintaining the order of the collective modes provided by the church? When the Lord commands the Saints to go to Missouri and settle on the border, what might this mean for the cause of Zion and the purpose of the restoration?
Guest co-host Christopher Hurtado joins Ben in a discussion of D&C Sections 49 and 50. Ben and Christopher discuss how our view of the Doctrine and Covenants as scripture can be informed by historical context and why it is helpful to do so. Leman Copley left the “United Society of Believers in Christ’s Second Appearing”, otherwise known as the Shakers, to join with the Saints. What was it about the beliefs of the Shakers that warranted a special revelation? What is the role of marriage in our faith and how does our conception of Adam and Eve inform our overall view of our relationship with God? Christopher comments on the eating of meat and how we might view equality as God intends us to. We can look to other religious traditions for truth. How might new “scripture” come about and how can we be open to receive it? The preaching of the gospel can only be done when accompanied by the Spirit of Truth, otherwise it is not of God.
Shiloh and Ben continue their discussion on how these new revelations in the early days of the Church established the new Latter-day Saint identity. These revelations gave function and form to the lived religious experience of these early Saints who lived on the frontier. Whereas the Saints could already find passages of scripture concerning the gifts of the Spirit in the Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12, the Lord brings these back to the minds and memories of the Saints. At least in part, the Saints are reminded of these gifts to focus their minds and hearts onto God. They are reminded to not seek for signs (because there is nothing transformational about a sign), but to “always remember, and always retain in your minds what those gifts are, that re given unto the church” (D&C 46:10). The “restoration” of the gospel is also a “repentance” process insomuch that God is restoring–as he has always done–the knowledge of himself. God consistently asks us to see him differently, to see ourselves differently, and to see each other the way that he sees us. To train the mind and heart away from the things of the world (where our ideas of God are typically created) and onto the things of God (that run counter the worldly ideas of God), he pleads with us ask of him and talk with him liberally, to walk in holiness of heart, to walk uprightly, to consider our salvation, and to give thanks (D&C 46:7). In short, God asks us to focus on the good for our own sake, and he has provided us many means to do this thing for our own benefit and joy.
Ben and Shiloh talk about the goodness and universal love of God. Although we often read and think that Christ is our advocate “to” the Father (as if the Father is the punisher and is either undecided or his hands are tied against us, and Christ is trying to change his mind), the scriptures are consistent that Christ is our advocate “with” the Father. Satan (meaning “adversary” and “accuser” — as if in a type of courtroom setting as the prosecuting attorney) stands against us to tell us that we are unworthy, unclean, and unforgiven from our sins. The choice is ours to whom we look to, listen to, and believe: Christ (and the Father) or Satan. If reasoning is what we need, Christ promises us that he will reason with us. Christ will manifest himself coming “in the clouds of heaven,” and he will come “clothed with power and great glory.” How many times have we, like the ancient Israelites and the Jaredites, followed the promptings from a God into the “wilderness” of our lives that we didn’t fully understand, comprehend, or grasp (like trying to mold or form a cloud)? When we think of God coming in his “glory,” do we think in terms of how it is described in Alma: “full of grace, equity, and truth, full of patience, mercy, and long-suffering, quick to hear the cries of his people, and to answer their prayers” (Alma 9:26)?
Shiloh and Ben talk about the growing pains of the early Church. Imagine while you’re reading the D&C through this time that the revelations you’re reading are all that these men knew about what this new church is, how it is organized, what its purposes are, and what its goals are. We often forget to contextualize these early church leaders in their proper space of experience. We have the vantage point of knowing when, where, and how their story unfolded, but as they were living these moments they lived having hope for a future that was completely undefined. The “restoration” was completely undefined, and even Joseph was consistently learning, step-by-step, what that meant. Once the Saints were in Ohio by the first of 1831, there appeared moments where new regulations needed to be set. In Section 42, we can gain some understanding of what pressures Joseph was up against against as commandments to not kill, steal, lie, or commit adultery were repeated twice. In all of their doings, they were all learning to see God in a new and wondrous way from what they had ever known, and we continually see how “restoration” and “repentance” are so closely related and often synonymous with each other.
Ben and Shiloh discuss the context of the early Saints being called to “the Ohio” in December of 1830. Barely 9 months old, the Lord commanded Joseph and the fledgling church to leave its home in New York and relocate to Kirtland. With so many farms going on the market and so quickly, the members knew that they would take severe losses on their farms — which many did. Some refused to go. Yet the Lord promised those who went that a “land of promise” had been “prepared” for them where “I hold forth and deign to give unto you greater riches, even a land of promise, a land flowing with milk and honey…” (D&C 38:18). In retrospect, “greater riches” and “a land flowing with milk and honey” likely had at least a double meaning to the mind of the Lord than what the Saints imagined. But why not just spell it out plainly for the Saints? Was it their own unfaithfulness that failed to produce the “riches” or the flowing “milk and honey”? The Lord knew the beginning from the end, so how does this language convince them and give them the fortitude to act and have faith? The text helps us resolve some of these questions and causes us to ask others in this week’s episode.
Shiloh and Ben discuss these revelations given to specific men in the first year of the Church’s existence in the latter-days. There are noticeable patterns in each revelation that we can use to understand a general sense and sentiment that these men were having at this time. Many of these men are called on missions to “the Lamanites” (the Native Americans in Missouri), to bring them the message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and the message of the Book of Mormon. The Lord consistently says that “the field is white already to harvest,” thus showing that God had already been engaged in His own work–tilling, fertilizing, planting, irrigating, etc.–the fields long, long before these men were invited to join in the harvest. We are invited to join the Lord in His own work.
Ben and Shiloh explore the theme the millenarianism in the early church. Apocalyptic language and literature are highly symbolic and rarely, if ever, to be taken literally. Prior to the imagery of apocalypticism, the Lord gracious informs us that He is our “advocate with the Father” (D&C 29:5, emphasis added), thereby informing us their common intentions, goals, and purpose for our benefit. Jesus Christ will come in his “power and great glory,” and we pause to reflect again on Alma 9:24 that offers evidence to what that “glory” entails: grace, equity, truth, patience, mercy, long-suffering, and quick to hear the cries of his people. Are the images of destruction really as we have deemed? Or is there room for us to see God and His purposes differently (i.e., repent) in the last days? Maybe God is eventually as violent as we have always thought He is… But, then again… Maybe not.
Shiloh and Ben talk about the early days just after the Church was organized. There were many new nuances and things to consider in building the Church and moving it forward, and with each new experience there were new inquiries asked of God in how to deal with these things. It is of interest that God tells us that it is not important what we use for the sacrament, only so long as we “do it with an eye single to [His] glory — remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins” (D&C 27:2). However, then the Lord spends the next two verses talking about what kind of wine to use and not use for the sacrament. Could it be that there is something more to this story? Could there be another meaning that the Lord is communicating? Is there a comparison to be made here to Christ’s New Testament command to not put “new wine” into “old bottles”? The restored gospel of Christ is about bringing new experiences to an old world. How are we experiencing the restored gospel of peace in our own lives today?
Ben and Shiloh discuss multiple sections that were given soon after the organization of the Church in 1830. There is a strong emphasis that the Lord gives throughout the Doctrine and Covenants that this is His work and that He invites us to be involved in His work. There is another prevalent theme throughout the text of Joseph and his companions seeking assurance of their place and good standing before God, and the reassurance is always forthcoming. It is like that for all of us at many times in our own lives. We seek divine assurance that our path, our pain, and our joy are seen by the God that gave us life. There are many times that this assurance seems delayed or withheld, but God is always there — even and especially when we feel alone or abandoned. This is not always easy to reason or conceive how a loving God would allow us to feel alone when He is right there with us, but there is a certain beauty in our learning process. The Lord is always there supporting us through all things.
Shiloh and Ben talk about the “Articles and Covenants” of Section 20. The Church was finally established, and the first 6 members had joined. While many structural changes within D&C 20 remain today, there were many structural changes to the Church in the ensuing years. Between the years of 1830 – 1838, the name of the Church changed several times (at least 6). The final name (as it appears in D&C 115:4) — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — was revealed by the Lord in April, 1838. President Nelson has recently stated that the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ is an ongoing endeavor, and there will yet be many changes. While “there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God” (D&C 20:17), He does speak to us in our “weakness, after the manner of [our] language” (D&C 1:24). Over time, our ideas also evolve, and we gain more light, knowledge, and truth as time progresses. Through D&C 20’s use of “justification,” “sanctification,” and “grace,” we are able to have a more comprehensive understanding of God’s eternal nature.
Ben and Shiloh talk about the revelations given to Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer in Section 18 and to Martin Harris in Section 19. The tones are very different in each of these sections, and it is of interest to pay attention to these shifts in how the Lord is speaking to them. Repentance is a primary theme of the Restoration. We tend to talk about repentance as a process of how to obtain divine forgiveness after committing sin, but is there more to it than that? Is God simply telling the world that it is sinful and that people need to obtain divine forgiveness? While this narrative is undoubtedly a part of that, there is a lot to repentance that we miss that limits us from seeing the joyous magnitude of the Restoration really was and still is. Repentance, in the LDS Bible Dictionary, is primarily defined as “a change of mind, a fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world.” The message of repentance throughout the D&C and the Restoration narratives has far more to do with learning to see God, ourselves, and the world differently and with a fresh few and a change of mind than anything else. God is revealing Himself in new and wondrous ways, and He is inviting us to experience that new way of being with us.
Shiloh and Ben discuss the Sections in D&C that are directed towards the Whitmers. These Sections, while short, hold a key to understanding the power of asking questions. The questions we ask are highly indicative of the understanding that we possess of how and what we perceive we need. The Lord speaks to us in our language and understanding, and He also answers our questions accordingly. He reveals unto us “line upon line, and precept upon precept,” and we receive that in which are willing and capable of receiving. Notice the different questions that the Whitmers ask and the different answers that they receive. One asks to know his “individual duty,” while the others asked “to know that which would be of the most worth.” In both answers, the Lord is kind, patient, loving, compassionate, and full of grace. What sometimes looks like “template revelations” (i.e., seemingly copy-and-paste revelations) really speaks to the general understanding of these men in their socio-religious environments in their relationship to God. What message did God see that this generation needed to know about the restoration of the gospel to give these similar revelations? Sometimes we assume too much of what these men and women possibly understood individual and as a whole, but if we slow down to reflect on why each verse was given we are not only able to see these men and women more clearly and humbly but the love and grace of God also stand out in the forefront of each revelation.
Ben and Shiloh open up an anticipated discussion of John the Baptist’s appearance to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. As Moroni’s thematic message to Joseph set the narrative and stage for what the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (as was discussed in Episode 34), John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus Christ who prepared the minds and hearts of the people to receive him. John the Baptist’s message, especially as contained in Luke 3, is often underutilized in understanding the radical shift the people required to recognizing the true Messiah. Until this time, the people had been expecting a violent, militaristic, and forceful leader to deliver them from their physical captors — the Romans — and to lead them to prosperity and prominence as a great national leader as a new King David. The Messiah that the Jews found in Jesus Christ was nothing at all like what their society anticipated, and the Messiah who will come again will not be anything at all like our own society anticipates. Christ’s forerunner has returned, and it is important for us to begin to ponder what this means. Oliver Cowdery, it very much seems, was able to taste the essence of what this means as expressed by his written testimony at the end of Joseph Smith – History.
Shiloh and Ben open up a discussion to consider God’s perennial nature and work. This discussion starts in an unlikely place by talking about the archetype of Satan. Section 10 contains more references to “Satan” than almost any other, and there is a lot to learn about ourselves through this archetypal recognition. Whereas Christ is our anointed advocate with the Father, Satan is “The Accuser” that interacts with and justifies the perceived existence of the “false self.” In these verses we see a beautiful revelation of God helping us identify and deal with the accusing voice within each of us that we feed, nurture, and cherish. It is this accusing voice that most commonly motivates our feeling to justify our opinions, put others in their place, and tells us that our worthiness/unworthiness has any conditional power over God’s love, compassion, and grace. Consider the point of view of Joseph Smith’s persecutors and those who had taken the 116-page manuscript. Surely they believed and felt their actions were motivated from a sense of justice in ridding the world of a charlatan, a fraud, a cheater, and a liar, and certainly they saw no problems in entrapping Joseph in his seeming dishonesty. Today, our society and culture completely accepts the same use and tactic of Joseph’s old persecutors in justifying lying-to-a-liar in our own “justice system” to catch supposed cheats, fraudsters, and criminals in the act. The Accuser teaches us to “Deceive and lie in wait to catch, that ye may destroy [evil from among you],” and that “it is no sin to lie that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him” (D&C 10:25). But our advocate with the Father has a different message. He tells us that the Accuser–the very founding and archetypal voice of civilization itself– cannot destroy or thwart His work (D&C 10:43), that He comes with good news “that there may not be so much contention” (D&C 10:63), that He is sent to gather in to protect (D&C 10:65), and that anyone who is willing to come and see Him differently than all the world has argued Him to be is already His church (D&C 10:67).
Ben and Shiloh review the sections that speak primarily to and about Oliver Cowdery. Oliver has a rich history before and after coming into the LDS narrative as a scribe to Joseph in penning the Book of Mormon. In these sections we find an incredibly supportive, compassionate, and encouraging God that is patient, merciful, and forgiving. God speaks to His children not just through their own language but according to the context of their cultural, religious, and personal understandings. Both Joseph and Oliver were (or had been) engrossed in what we would see today as a “magical” worldview of experiencing God where imbuing random objects with divine power (e.g., stones, handkerchiefs, walking sticks, etc.) were not abnormal. Whereas Joseph had found a rock while digging a well that he used as a “seer stone” to assist in translation of the Book of Mormon, Oliver had had previous successful experiences before meeting Joseph in dousing (i.e., “witching”) with a stick. God does not reject these abilities and worldviews that were commonly understood and known to Joseph and Oliver, but, rather, He incorporates their worldview and focuses their own interests and talents on His own purposes. How does God do the same for us today? God encourages Oliver’s endeavors and gives him what was originally called the “gift of the rod” (as written in the 1833 Book of Commandments) but that was later recorded in subsequent publications of Section 8 as the “gift of Aaron” after 1835. God also blesses Oliver with many revelatory moments, and we learn much of how to recognize God’s love and promptings for our lives through Oliver’s experiences.
Shiloh and Ben open up a discussion about Martin Harris and the lost 116 pages of the Book of Mormon. There is so much to grasp of the grace and mercy of God throughout these three sections of scripture, and we often sidestep these conversations because they threaten the worldview of our ego-based false selves. Scripture is a beautiful thing, for it is the record of when mankind and God touch. Within the scriptural record we see God pouring through cracks of men’s foibles to reveal Himself again and again between the erroneous narratives of the false self. On each page of scripture we find both a documented account of the true and false selves in how they relate to and see God. Sections 3-5 reveal much of this tug-of-war between the true and false selves in how they see God. Once we begin to recognize the tension expressed in scripture between what God is revealing of what we really are (as created in God’s image) and what the world is propagating us to believe of what really are (as created “after the image of [our] own god” (D&C 1:16)), the depths of Joseph’s and Martin’s darkness at the loss of the 116 pages and of God’s reassuring grace and mercy begin to take on completely new meanings.
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Podcast edited by Kyle Swingle and Catherine Hamilton.
Ben and Shiloh talk about the entrance of “the mentor” in Joseph Smith’s journey through the angelic messenger Moroni. Last week was Joseph’s “call to adventure,” and the entrance of Joseph’s mentor sets both the theme and the stage for the entire restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the modern world. In our telling of this story we typically focus on three points: (1) Moroni’s multiple appearances to Joseph on the night of September 21, 1823, and one appearance the next day, (2) that Moroni said Joseph’s name would be for good and bad among all nations, and (3) that Joseph was shown in vision where the plates were buried upon the Hill Cumorah. What we commonly neglect is the main body of Moroni’s actual message to Joseph in quoting from four distinct passages of scripture and of what those scriptures are and mean. It is through these scriptures where Moroni reveals the power and need for the restoration. Through Malachi we discover that the power and authority of God are coming to heal the family of God on earth; through Isaiah we gain confidence that Zion will be established where violence will cease to exist and where all nature will be redeemed; Acts informs us that a new Moses is coming in Jesus Christ who will bring His doctrine (which doctrine is the Sermon on the Mount); and Joel’s prophecy makes us aware that signs and wonders will happen beyond our comprehension, yet we have no reason to fear for the Lord will deliver all who call upon His name. Truly, these are grand purposes and a glorious theme for the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ!
Shiloh and Ben open up a discussion about Joseph Smith’s First Vision and his “call to adventure.” Joseph lived in a day when there were arguments abounding over what was true and correct doctrine. People of all faiths around him seemed to exhibit “great love” and “zeal” at “the time of their conversion.” But whatever form or façade of conversion and love that existed soon digressed, and it became evident to Joseph that God is not discovered through argument and scriptural apologetics. Joseph had no context for how to gain more light and truth, but he realized that “the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible” (JS-H 1:12). The Spirit worked within Joseph, and Joseph experienced a type of contemplative lectio divina with God (i.e., “Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again.”). The First Vision was more than the imparting of truth through argument, reason, rational, and an appeal to the text. Through the First Vision account we begin to see what God truly has in store for us: To know truth by experience with Him. Whereas the world clamors to define and defend God through whatever perceived and appropriate methods of belief, argument, and dogma, the First Vision teaches us that truth is far, far more powerful and known through divine experience. As Joseph states, “For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it” (JS-H 1:25).
Ben and Shiloh are excited to get back into the Come, Follow Me discussion as the new year rolls around in talking about Church history and the Doctrine and Covenants. Whereas the Book of Mormon was written as a basic chronological narrative, the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants are not written and compiled in narrative form. This requires a separate historical conversation to contextualize each Section of the Doctrine and Covenants to really help us understand what is meant and being revealed to the early Saints in their time and place. As a Church, we have a fascinating and exciting opportunity every four years to study — in a modern context — how the Lord brings about a religious movement. We get to see and become a part of the birth of a restored religion. In no small part, we get to see how it is that we record the history of our modern progenitors and how that impacts our daily identities. How we tell the stories of the restored gospel follows the same patterns of the greatest epics of human literature, as we engage and find identity in our own “Hero’s Journey.” Section 1 — as the Lord’s 1831 preface to the Doctrine and Covenants — is a magnificent evidence of the Doctrine and Covenants’ divine authenticity, as it follows the same ancient patterns of Middle Eastern covenant/treaty making as written in 1831 that were not discovered by scholars of the Middle East until the 1950s. Through the next year, we will begin to see how much of Joseph’s personality and fingerprint made it onto the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants (e.g., Section 67), as this will lead us into a broader discussion as to how the Lord reveals His will through His prophets. The Lord speaks to us in our language, our learning, and our weaknesses, and the Lord realizes that “every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god.” Yet, even then, the Lord still comes to us and helps us repent in learning to see Him, ourselves, and each other differently.
Show Notes:
Discovering the Old Testament Podcast, by Dr. Sheldon Greaves: Episode 8 — Abraham’s Covenant.
Shiloh and Ben discuss Moroni 10 and finalize this year’s narrative in talking about the Book of Mormon. It is of interest that it seems that Moroni wants us to come with a heart of mercy to praying over the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Why would this be important to Moroni? At least in part is appears that Moroni is helping us to have a certain experience with the divine and that he is using us coming to God to pray over the truthfulness of the record as the catalyst to that experience. There are many things to say about the gifts of the spirit and of God, and Moroni repeats the need for faith, hope, and charity. We get a little window to see into Moroni’s life and what he finds valuable through his repeated emphasis on seeking for and witnessing miracles. Moroni’s final message and plea is really the overall theme and purpose of the Book of Mormon: “Come unto Christ, and be perfected in Him.”
Ben and Shiloh discuss Mormon's recorded sermon and his two epistles to Moroni. Throughout chapter 7, Mormon consistently uses Beatitude language in addressing the "peaceable followers of Christ." Faith, hope, and charity are invoked, as the Beatitudes also follow this same pattern. Chapter 8's discussion of child baptism almost seems a little out of place and strange to include at the very end of the Book of Mormon, but there is a lot of contextual evidence where this message fits in neatly and beautifully with the Book of Mormon narrative. Chapter 9 is an incredibly sad tale of how the Nephites and Lamanites treated each other, and we are left to wonder why Mormon would write about it to Moroni and why Moroni, in turn, would include it in the text. Why describe the scene of horror so intimately and vividly? These and many other questions are addressed in this week's episode. We look forward to your own thoughts as you listen.
Shiloh and guest co-host Christopher Hurtado talk about Moroni's final last words. Moroni bids us "farewell" a few times, as each time he believes will be his last. There is much to consider concerning Moroni. The text offers us quite a bit of his personality and of his possible insecurities and obvious strengths. The Lord lightly chastises and liberates Moroni in Ether 12 from his worry and concern, as we see a change happen in Moroni's final message. Considering Moroni's plight and situation, having seen the ultimate destruction of his people, it is not an uncommon question to ask of ourselves what we would have included as our final witness of Jesus Christ had we seen and experienced the same thing. What did Moroni deem the most worthy messages in his final farewell? His reliance and testimony of Christ, the importance of the Holy Ghost, his love and appreciation for the Lord's servants and their calling, his focus on the promises and blessings of the sacrament, and of his focus on the association of the Saints. There is a certain level of sorrow and a greater level of appreciation that we can extend to Moroni who found importance in writing down certain aspects of the Gospel that he found important but that he would never get to experience again.
Ben and Shiloh conclude talking about the Jaredite nation, as they spend time discussing several topics concerning faith, belief, charity, and reconciliation. Moroni, who is abridging the Jaredite text, laments that he was not powerful in writing like unto the brother of Jared, and he worries that the Gentiles (i.e., us) will not receive or believe his record because of his weakness in writing. Moroni's interpretation of the Lord's words on charity worry him that the Gentiles will not have sufficient charity. The Lord's response to both of Moroni's concerns demonstrate the kindness, love, and compassion that the Lord has with all of his children. The Lord reproves Moroni in such a way that lifts not only Moroni's burden but the burden of the modern-day Gentiles. Fools may mock, yes, until they empty and enter into the Divine existential conversation of the Beatitudes where they will be comforted and inherit the earth. We often read of and see God's "wrath" in terms of our natural man's perception of physical destruction, yet we see throughout the Jaredite narrative the same merciful and self-sacrificial God revealing himself as he did to the Jews and the Nephites. It is the natural man's willful perception to see an angry, violent, and vengeful God, yet Jesus Christ continues to reveal himself as the advocate with the Father, the Healer, and Divine archetype of He who mourns with those that mourn.
Shiloh and Ben continue the discussion of the Jaredite narrative, as we segue from the literary epic of chapters 1 - 6 into the political discussion of the the Jaredite kings. Whereas chapters 1 - 6 denote an allegorical process of repentance in how to come to see God and God's nature in new, fresh, and more consistent ways, chapters 7 - 11 speak to the fallout in our own lives when we choose to return to our past, refuse to continue emptying the natural man, and consistently rely upon the arm of flesh for our support. There has been much talk by certain leaders of the Church pertaining to political secret combinations and what they might be in our own day. While political secret combinations make for an important discussion, this singular way at looking at "secret combinations" often fails to (1) find relevance in the majority of people's daily lives (after all, how many people have actually been exposed to explicitly oathbound, secret, murderous societies seeking solely to get wealth and power?), and (2) never fully develops or identifies any meta-narratives that are directly applicable to people's daily lives, their identity, and that frame and underscore the myths, narratives, and stories of their culture, society, and civilization.
Ben and Shiloh start discussing the fascinating story of the Jaredite nation. With so many things going on, this episode is longer than most of the others. The beginning of Ether reads like many historical accounts of ancient nations, as the creation of the earth is mentioned, a need for a formal and unified language is identified, and the divine promise of a land of inheritance are all specifically invoked to justify the creation of the Jaredite nations. Allegorically, there is so much to unpack from these stories, not the least of which is how God manifests himself as a cloud before them in their journey's into a place where no man has ever gone. Initially, our coming unto God is not to see God as he really is, but that the formlessness and shapelessness of God as a cloud represents how we are drawn to and set out by faith to follow a God that we don't fully understand yet. However, as the brother of Jared continues in his journey in understanding the true nature of God through trial and error, the shapelessness of God in a cloud is refined into seeing and experiencing the embodiment of God. In seeing God's finger and the conversation that ensues, we see the Book of Mormon offering, once again, a type of anti-Cain Narrative, as the brother of Jared exemplifies the Beatitude life and unwittingly parts the veil of unbelief. As Elder Jeffrey R. Holland wrote, "The brother of Jared seems to have thrust himself through the veil, not as an unwelcome guest but perhaps technically as an uninvited one."
Shiloh and Ben discuss Mormon's finale chapter before he is killed in battle, as Mormon's son, Moroni, steps in to finalize Mormon's personal history. If all you had known in your lifetime was wickedness, death, carnage, and the extinction of your people, what would you feel are the most important messages to leave future generations who will one day read your record? Mormon and Moroni focus in on themes of repentance, baptism, the atonement of Jesus Christ, faith, and resurrection to name only a few. In our wickedness, we view the consequences of our actions as the punishment of a wrathful, vengeful, and violent God. But are these true descriptions of the eternal nature of God? Both Mormon and Moroni speak of this wrathful God, as was surely the common belief in God in their day by those who lament that they cannot find happiness in sin (i.e., living their 'false self'). Yet, this is one of the most powerful messages of repentance from the dust: to avoid the fates of civilizations long since extinct, we need to learn that repentance (as the LDS Bible Dictionary defines) is to see God in a fresh and new way -- a way that he revealed to us all through the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon at the Temple.
Ben and Shiloh move into discussing the destruction of the Nephite nation and of Mormon's graphic description of their final extinction. What can we learn about who Mormon is, his life, and his experiences in these chapters that go into framing and contextualizing the rest of the Book of Mormon? Ben observes that Mormon 2 is basically describing the "Anti-Beatitudes," as Mormon witnesses the depravity, pride, and wickedness of his people. Mormon leaves evidences for us that he's trying to recreate Captain Moroni's defense of the Nephites, but Mormon soon realizes that too many elements in his own society and civilization are missing to be successful even to Captain Moroni's time. Even in Mormon's commentary of detailing the end of his people, we can also learn how to see God as kind, benevolent, and always proactively running towards us to reconcile, heal, and protect us. Mormon observes that the "day of grace" had passed by the Nephites, but while the wicked may observe their state as divine abandonment - this was not God abandoning them. The Nephites exhibit the unrepentant lives of God's children who willfully reject seeing God's glory as he has always been: full of grace, equity, and truth, full of patience, and long-suffering, quick to hear the cries of his people and to answer their prayers (Alma 9:26). Therein is the real tragedy of the Nephite destruction.
Shiloh and Ben finish their discussion of Jesus Christ's visit to the Americas. Christ quotes from both Isaiah and Malachi, and they explore themes from these scriptures using a Beatitude / Sermon on the Mount hermeneutic to more deeply understand both Isaiah and Malachi in seeing God in a new way. Jesus Christ teaches that the Father's purpose of sending Him to earth was "that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me" (3rd Ne 27:14), and we see that Christ's doctrine -- reflective of Jacob's prior desire that "we would to God that we could persuade all men... [to] suffer his cross and bear the shame of the world" (Jacob 1:8) -- calls us all to follow Him to Gethsemane and to Calvary. We suffer for each other in temporal and finite matters what Jesus Christ exampled in spiritual and infinite matters, as we learn more intimately His descriptive call: "What manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am" (3rd Ne 27:27). Ben and Shiloh, once again, lament that only 3 pages are dedicated in 4th Nephi to addressing the time of the Zion-type society that occurs after Jesus Christ's appearance. Shiloh imagines sitting down with Mormon one day to ask him why he included so little about this glorious time of righteousness, to which Shiloh imagines Mormon responding: "If you think too little is written in 4th Nephi, perhaps you don't really yet understand all that is in 3rd Nephi."
Ben and Shiloh continue with the discussion of the Sermon at the Temple. When Jesus Christ visited the people in the Americas, he was doing more than bringing them a great new message. He taught, identified, and led them into a completely new way of experience and being. All too often, we unwittingly interpret scripture through the biased lens of our own language, culture, past experiences, and a host of other filters that often distort the intended message as it was given. Through this episode, Ben and Shiloh use Jesus Christ's message in the Sermon at the Temple as the lens to view and understand Isaiah, Malachi, and the rest of Jesus Christ's message throughout 3rd Nephi. Using the Sermon at the Temple as the lens produces some fascinating new insights into the nature of God, the end of days prophecies, the building of Zion, and of how God views the state of the wicked.
Shiloh and Ben continue the discussion of Jesus Christ's visit to the Americas. It is incredible how naturally flowing the events of these chapters are, as one moment gives desire and experience for the next natural moment. Jesus Christ perceives that the people are "weak" and that they would not be able to "understand all of my words which I am commanded of the Father to speak unto you at this time" (3 Ne 17:2). The people are told to go to their homes to ponder on the Beatitudes and the Sermon at the Temple that He just gave them, but then, instead of leaving them, He leads them through one experience after another. First, He heals their sick; Second, He gathers and blesses their children; Third, He gives meaning to and offers the sacrament; Finally, he gives instructions on how to unify the people under His name. The pattern here is profound. As the Christ Archetype makes its appearance in Chapter 11, He then identifies the entirety of the gospel and what it means to be "Christ" within the Beatitudes, shows what a Beatitude-type person is throughout the rest of the Sermon at the Temple, and then, instead of just leaving the people to their own thoughts, he leads them through multiple experiences that allow them to actually participate in what it means to take upon ourselves the name of "Christ." Chapter 19 concludes with the newly chosen Disciples of Christ instituting the same sacrament, as Jesus Christ reappears and we then are shown several examples of the power of prayerful contemplation with the divine. Jesus Christ walked the path with them at every step of transformation.
Ben and Shiloh continue their discussion of the Sermon at the Temple, as they discuss the various vignettes that Christ reveals pertaining to what a Beatitude-living disciple of Christ looks like in various situations. They discuss various topics of the Sermon pertaining to alms giving, prayer, forgiveness, fasting, the doctrine of two masters, anxiety, seeking for the kingdom of God, judgment, the Golden Rule, action and iniquity, and the wise and foolish man. As the new Moses, Jesus Christ declares that the law of Moses has been fulfilled in him, as his life and example was what the law of Moses had looked forward to as a type and shadow. Shiloh and Ben also discuss how often we participate in the rites and ordinances of the priesthood as experiences in themselves (which is perfectly fine), but that we fail to actually experience in our daily lives what those rites and ordinances can and have only ever represented and symbolized. As such, we live below our privileges and never live beyond the observance of the law through rites and rituals in what it means in our real lives. It is through our experiencing these things in our real lives wherein we can only begin to recognize what it looks like to build Zion in our hearts and lives.
Shiloh and Ben embark on discussing a favorite topic: The Beatitudes and the Sermon at the Temple (equivalent to the Sermon on the Mount in the Book of Matthew in the Gospels) . The Beatitudes are the Preamble to the rest of the Sermon at the Temple, and it is impossible to really understand the rest of the Sermon if we miss the importance and setting of the Beatitudes. In both the Sermon on the Mount (in Matthew) and in the Sermon at the Temple (3 Nephi), the settings are symbolically the same: a high place / the temple. Whereas we often glance over the Beatitudes are simply random and unconnected virtues, they are infinitely more than that. In fact, within the story of the Beatitudes is the entirety of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as the rest of the Sermon at the Temple are little vignette's of what a Beatitude-type person (i.e., someone who walks the path of the "Christ") is like in various situations. The coming of Jesus Christ is the most important story in the Book of Mormon, as it is the apex of the Book of Mormon's reason for existence. Central to that message is the Sermon at the Temple, and, for that reason, we've made two parts out of this week's Come, Follow Me. There was just too much great stuff to talk about! We hope that you enjoy!
Ben and Shiloh tackle really interesting and difficult chapters in the Book of Mormon where the sign of Christ's death comes to the Americas. Most Book of Mormon scholars conclude that a possible volcano is what caused every mentioned calamity from the mist of darkness, to the lightning, the geographic upheaval, the liquefaction of cities into the sea, fire from heaven and consuming cities, cities being covered with earth, etc. There are a few lack-of-congruence issues in the text concerning Samuel's prophecy of the signs of Christ's death and the interpretation of events of those who lived through it. A few ideas are discussed on how to resolve the congruence issues, as Ben formulates a completely different, rather bold, and shocking possible explanation of Jesus Christ's seeming destructive nature in chapters 8-10 that requires us to re-engage the text in a completely new way and to see both the events and Mormon (as the compiler of the story) in a new way. Neither Shiloh or Ben make any claim that any of these ideas are actually "the way" things happened, but it was a rather enjoyable exercise in looking for patterns in the scriptures to and trying to shake new ideas loose to see what possibly appears.
Shiloh and Ben move into talking about the fulfillment of Samuel's prophecies concerning the birth of Jesus Christ. Nephites who were baptized into the Church because they had seen signs did not experience deep conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Nephites and Lamanites combine forces to thwart the Gadianton Robbers. While Mormon explains that "it was the custom among all the Nephites to appoint for their chief captains, (save it were in their times of wickedness) some one that had the spirit of revelation and also prophecy" and that "Gidgidoni was a great prophet" (3 Ne 3:19), there is still ample evidence that the depth of the Nephite "righteousness" may not be as deep as perhaps we generally read into it. Ben brings up, once again, a rather poignant possibility that the Nephites/Lamanite duo had a great missed opportunity (once again) of how to reclaim the Gadianton's prior to the seemingly necessary need to kill them. The Nephites and Lamanites triumph over the Gadiantons but ultimately everything crumbles into tribalism, as the Reign of the Judges comes to an end just prior to the destruction of the land.
Ben and Shiloh talk about Samuel the Lamanite preaching to and calling the Nephites to repentance. Why did the Lord send a Lamanite to call repentance to the Nephites when they already had Nephi, the prophet, there preaching the same message? The pattern of Samuel's preaching reflect the same patterns of Abinadi and Alma the Younger, as he preaches the good news and signs of the Savior's birth. Shiloh and Ben discuss the nature of God in how it relates to Helaman 12:3 and to Samuel's words of God's active vengeance. Is there a different way to view God than as an actively vengeful God?
Shiloh and guest-host Christopher Hurtado talk about the state of Nephite affairs after the official "War Chapters" conclude. Political intrigue, pride in the Church, international conflict, and a failed military bid to regain lost lands find the Nephites at a loss. Christopher and Shiloh discuss myth narratives and find interesting verses that combine the Garden of Eden myth together with the Lehi/Nephi Dream myth in how to become one with God. Nephi and Lehi go out to preach the world of God and follow the pattern set forward by their great-grandfather, Alma the Younger, as the Lamanites repent and become converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ. We see another Lamanite conversion so deep that they, like the Anti Nephi Lehis before, also bury their weapons of war. The Gadianton Robbers begin to plague both the Nephites and the Lamanites, but the converted Lamanites have a powerful weapon that they use to destroy the Gadiantons from their land.
Shiloh and Ben discuss the last half of the War Chapters in the Book of Mormon and question some possibilities that the War Chapters may have been the first thing that Mormon compiled in the Book of Mormon as a young military general. Why and in what way are the Anti Nephi Lehis talked about differently in Alma 53 and 56 than in Alma 26? Captain Moroni is a complicated character that is often quick-to-anger and condemnation, but he consistently expresses a strength of heart and mind to cease bloodshed and fighting mid-battle to let the enemy go free with an oath. After Captain Moroni breaths many threatenings and admonitions against Pahoran that turn out to be unsubstantiated, as Pahoran's humble response to Captain Moroni also has some very interesting parallels worthy to juxtapose from the Beatitudes in Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount. While we have the Nephite record of what happened, what new insights would we have into the every day lives of perhaps the majority of Lamanites who didn't want to fight (read Alma 47:2). We don't get their story, but if we did would it soften our hearts towards them?
Ben and Shiloh continue their discussion on the first half of the War Chapters in the Book of Mormon. There is a lot to say about the the Nephite narratives and identities in how they view themselves and the Lamanites that frame and contextualize the discussion and that are sometimes taken for granted in analyzing the text. Were there missed opportunities for the Nephites to end war through other non-military means? Were the Nephites always truly expressing the seeming justness of their cause? Did the Nephites always live up to their standards of belief concerning war? Just how much like the Nephites are we today, and can we gain any insight into our own individual and national characters so that we do not have to meet the same fate as the Nephites of old? These and many other ideas are discussed in the podcast. We hope you enjoy!
If you missed your chance to listen to the first podcast, you can listen or download it here: https://latterdaypeacestudies.org/podcast/episode-11-alma-43-52/
Shiloh and Ben begin a preliminary discussion to contextualize the war chapters. They explore the observations for the Lord's stated means of deliverance in Mosiah 7:33, the Lord's standard for "justified" self-defense and warfare in D&C 98, and what it means to go beyond what is merely justified into the realms of what is counted as "righteousness." In Alma 43:47 it states "the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed." Yet, in this seeming universal command to take up arms to spill the blood of brother's or sister's life in defense of our families, we see righteous examples counter to the popular interpretation of this commandment in the fires of Ammonihah and with the Anti Nephi Lehis. Ben and Shiloh explore a more consistent interpretation of this scripture justifying "bloodshed" where the women and children of Ammonihah and of the Anti Nephi Lehis are not just outliers and seeming contradictions but are the very archetypal witnesses of this commandment.
Shiloh and Ben talk about the conclusion of Alma's words to his sons, as they talk about the principles spoken to Corianton. Ben introduces an idea that Corianton's main "sin" was in "forsaking the ministry," and that he did this by losing focus and traveling after the lusts of his own heart. Shiloh uses the definition of the Godhead in Lecture 5 of the Lectures on Faith to talk about the "sin against the Holy Ghost" and what it takes to become a "son of Perdition" as a matter of epistemology rather than metaphysics. As Corianton was admonished to "cross himself" against sin, Ben and Shiloh talk about the sad loss of symbolic imagery in the Cross of Calvary from Church Culture.
Ben and Shiloh talk about Alma's fatherly admonitions to his sons Helaman and Shiblon. They talk about clues that Alma leaves us into the foundations of his own testimony, and discuss about the nature of and doctrine of "Christ" as found in these chapters. While we typically talk about the "doctrine of Christ" in general terms as simply the gospel, there is another more nuanced discussion that Shiloh and Ben explore as to what "Christ" is as the archetype of our humanity and what it means to take that name upon ourselves.
Ben and Shiloh continue their talk about the Zoramites, as they explore the concept and principle of faith in Christ. What is the relationship of faith and hope, and how do we regain our hope if we feel that we've lost it? They explore ideas pertaining to experiencing God and of how to develop a relationship with the Spirit. Amulek warns that "this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God," and Shiloh and Ben discuss various transactional and transformational ways of interpreting the meaning of this passage of scripture and how that impacts how we see God, ourselves, and each other.
Shiloh and Ben discuss the conversation between Alma and Korihor, Korihor's teachings, and how Alma sees that all of creation denotes the existence of God. Alma is seeking to give Korihor an experience with God, whereas Korihor is looking for rational proof that -- in itself -- will never lead to true conversion and the experience of just sitting with and being enveloped in the love of God. Through this story we can also begin to see different ways of viewing God from transactional and transformative ways. In chapter 31, the Zoramites pray from the Rameumptom in glory of their separation from those less spiritual, as Alma prays to God to unify all people in the glory of God.
Shiloh and Ben discuss the story of the Anti-Lehi-Nephis, the Beatitudes, the Doctrine of Perhaps, nonviolence, and the history of how the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has viewed and used the story of the Anti-Nephi-Lehis over the last hundred years. There is much more to the story and conversion of the Anti-Nephi-Lehis, and we are very excited to have this discussion. We hope you enjoy!
For extra reading/listening material, also check out:
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"Buried Swords: The Shifting Interpretive Ground of a Beloved Book of Mormon Narrative," by J. David Pulsipher (in Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, Vol 26 (2017), pp. 1-47). shorturl.at/yCV14
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"On Faith, Knowledge, and the doctrine of Perhaps," by Ben Petersen and Shiloh Logan (in LDS Liberty Podcasts, May 26, 2017). shorturl.at/rRVXY
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"The Myth of Redemptive Violence," J. David Pulsipher and Laura Hales (in LDS Perspective Podcast). shorturl.at/oyIV2
Shiloh and Ben discuss the journeys of the sons of Mosiah as they take the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Lamanites. They discuss the myth of cosmology in how it relates to establishing authority, and how this may have been a familiar tool and understanding to convince King Lamoni of the incorrect traditions of his fathers. Both Ben and Shiloh want to know more about Abish, and Shiloh resolves to ask Mormon (at some point in eternity) why we have so much about geography and Nephite coinage in the Book of Mormon but we're left wanting to know more about Abish and the Zion-type people in 4th Nephi. King Lamoni and his household, as well as Lamoni's father and his household, tastes of the love of God, as it is the love of God that leads to conversion.
Ben and Shiloh finish with the sad discussion of Ammonihah. What were Alma and Amulek trying to open up a space for with the people? Could it be that they were offering the people of Ammonihah nothing less than a Zion-type community? The angel of the Lord had sent Alma back because the people of Ammonihah were studying to destroy the liberty that God had given, as Alma and Amulek take this charge and bring a message of true liberty, justice, and mercy to the people. The response to this Christ-centered message reflects the injustice of Calvary, as we discuss the relationship between witness, testimony, and martyrdom that is seen in Alma 14 and as practiced by the earliest Saints after Christ’s ascension.
Alma ventures to the city of Ammonihah where he is confronted for the first time with a people who adamantly reject his message. As he leaves the city, an angel appears and tells him to return, because the leaders were studying how to destroy the liberty of the people. Shiloh and Ben discuss the messages of Alma and Amulek in this context, and Ben finds some interesting parallels between Alma 8 and the Beatitudes that we hadn’t seen before.
Shiloh and Ben discuss Alma’s first missionary experience to the people of Zarahemla and to Gideon. Alma was not only the High Priest over the Church, but he was also the Chief Judge of the new Nephite government. Once Alma saw the social inequality going on in society, he abdicated the socio-political power to Nephihah and resorted to being a missionary -- seeing “no way” that he could reclaim the people except by bearing down pure testimony. But what value does testimony have to change the course of civilization and society? That’s what we’re here to discuss today… We hope you enjoy!
As the Nephite government transitions from kings to the reign of the judges, there are many subtle and nuanced narratives that are going on below the surface of the text. Alma the Younger is experiencing a transition in his own discipleship and growth, as he soon recognizes the power of what bearing down pure testimony has on the course of civilizations. How does Alma learn these lessons to apply them? This is the basis for our discussion in this week’s episode of LDPS Presents: Come, Follow Me.
Ben Petersen and Shiloh Logan are back from their time podcasting together for LDS Liberty, and they’re excited to start talking about Come, Follow Me every week.
Ben Petersen and Shiloh Logan’s long friendship has coalesced around a deeply shared love of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. They’ve spent countless nights together with their families talking about the wonders of hope, love, and peace that come from the gospel of Jesus Christ.
In these podcasts, we are searching for moments to sit with the Divine. As we contemplate each week’s readings, we look for how we can understand and use the Sermon on the Mount and the atonement of Jesus Christ to more fully understand the greater narratives of the scriptures
TRANSCRIPTION OF PODCAST (This is not a verbatim transcript. Some wording has been modified for clarity, and timestamps are approximate.):
Ben Peterson 0:00
Did we call each other at the same time?
Shiloh Logan 0:02
I think so.
Ben Peterson 0:03
Okay.
Shiloh Logan 0:06
All right.
Ben Peterson 0:07
We are recording.
Shiloh Logan 0:09
Every single podcast I feel like, you know, when every single morning you're like, your first two doors, "Oh my gosh, can I do this? Can I do this? Can I do this?"
Ben Peterson 0:18
Wait! How do I do this? Sure. Yeah, I get it.
Shiloh Logan 0:24
I feel that way every single time we start this, and then once we get rolling, I'm like, okay, keep talking about this. That's awesome.
Ben Peterson 0:31
Yeah. It may take us a few podcasts to get into the swing. I feel like our third and fourth ones with LDS Liberty started getting better. So ...
Shiloh Logan 0:42
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. We've just got to get started and do it.
Ben Peterson 0:48
Okay, so here we go.
Shiloh Logan 1:00
Hello and welcome to Latter Day Peace Studies. I'm Shiloh Logan.
Ben Peterson 1:03
And, I'm Ben Peterson.
Shiloh Logan 1:04
So, Ben, we are ... we're going to do this again. This is a thing. We're going to do this all over again.
Ben Peterson 1:10
Yeah, I'm ready for it. I loved doing it before, and I'm excited for where we're going with it this time.
Shiloh Logan 1:19
Ben and I had been involved in a podcast before with LDS Liberty, where we talked a lot about different scriptures and different principles of the gospel. We decided to shift gears and go a different way. It's been, I don't know, how long has it been? It's been three years. Has it been three years?
Ben Peterson 1:36
Since we recorded our last one?
Shiloh Logan 1:38
Yeah.
Ben Peterson 1:38
That's certainly possible. That would fit the timespan about right, I guess. We kept saying we were going to do more with it. But the timing, and mentality, and other obligations - and then the right topics, and material that fit right in it - didn't quite present themselves to us all at once. So, it didn't quite happen.
Shiloh Logan 2:05
Yeah, it's true. Yeah, we were both called as [early morning] seminary teachers, so that wasn't ... you're in Missouri and I'm in California and so that made for some strange late-night conversations.
Ben Peterson 2:15
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