LifeShot Health & Wellness: Recent Episodes
Clint Grove
Guest interviews on personal development topics like the mind, health, nutrition, fitness and our consciousness
As we age we lose muscle mass, joint movement and bone density. This is a slow and gradual decline. Some older people are in care homes because they cannot fully care for themselves physically, but that does not have to be the case if you start now to maintain and build muscle mass and joint mobility.
Listen to the interview I had with Daniel Rollins. He is an Osteopath that I myself visited and had treatment with. He is so intune with peoples bodies, it's unbelievable. You may have never thought of visiting an Osteo, but after this interview you may just think about going to get advice and remove those niggles like back pain
https://www.dynamicosteopathy.co.uk/daniel-rollins
Also, check out https://lifeshot.co.uk/shop/
for your dose of collagen to keep and feel young!
Vitamin D is so vital to our health that it is the first vitamin supplement recommended by many health governing bodies such as the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency and the World Health Organisation.
It is also the first supplement that biohackers like Dave Asprey would recommend in your pursuit of living longer and healthier.
Vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin that is naturally present in a few foods, artificially added to others like milk and cereals, and available as a dietary supplement. It is also produced endogenously when ultraviolet (UV) rays from sunlight hit your skin, this triggers what they call "vitamin D synthesis"
I have a link for you to get the vitamin D that I use by love life supplements. (this is an affiliate link, thanks for supporting)
Before you listen to the podcast I would like to tell you about the collagen powder that I sell. Its made from PEPTAN, the worlds leading collagen producer, it is the highest quality collagen you can get on the market. Collagen protein is the building blocks to your bones, skin and joints. You can increase muscle recovery, look great and feel great when you supplement your diet with Lifeshot Collagen powder.
Mix it in your smoothies or coffee, or with juice or add it to some recipes. I have a few of them on my blog, check them out here. If you are looking for top-quality coffee we sell that here too, its called Lifebrew coffee, it's our own brand here at lifeshot and its speciality grade, medium roasted micro-lot coffee. From farms where we have a relationship with the farmers and where we can track the quality and consistency of the coffee beans. Get yours here.
Mari Williams The Mind Architect. Learn how to become a better leader for your family and your business or your career.
I am now selling my own brand collagen peptides. I chose to sell this product because I believe in what it does. It helps me to keep my skin more elastic, it helps reduce fine line wrinkles and it helps me with muscle recovery. I also believe strongly in the benefits of drinking top quality coffee, and that is why I started selling organic whole bean coffee too. See my links below
Lifeshot Collagen - buy now
Lifebrew Coffee - buy now
Liz and Clint are at it again in this weeks episode of the lifeshot podcast
Should losing weight make you feel great or make you look great? Find out how we suggest you go about this week on the lifeshot
Get your lifeshot live well and age well collagen protein right here
https://lifeshot.co.uk/our-protein/
Muyiwa (Muui23.com) has interviewed over 100 people on his Day in Day Out Podcast. Let's learn from him about all the nuggets he has taken away from talking to so many experts in their fields.
We speak about mindset, body focus and the spirit of community and relationships.
Check out my collagen powder that can help you age well, feel better with healthier skin, bones and hair. 100% pure bovine collagen peptides is what I take every day to slow down the ageing process and keep my skin looking good.
A podcast episode about losing weight.
George is a personal trainer and runs online as well as face to face training.
After coaching hundreds of people he knows what he is talking about and he shares his knowledge with us in this episode on how to lose weight the right way.
Sean has a therapy practice where he helps people heal from injuries and pain.
When he was playing rugby he hurt his back, he was not able to play for months until he went to see a person who did alternative therapy, much like Bowen Therapy. Listen in to how he helps people with this neuromuscular style of therapy
Sean's website http://www.structuralmedicine.co.za
Check out my website here http://www.lifeshot.co.za
Please subscribe so that you don't miss another episode. You can also like my pages here
https://www.facebook.com/lifeshotpodcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_CaqSgs8t2LVJik4ztPg8w
In this podcast episode, I speak with Martyn O'Dare from Firetree Chocolate. An artisan chocolatier who sources the beans and produces the chocolate himself along with this team in Peterborough UK.
Listen in to some fascinating aspects of chocolate production and the makeup and composition of my favourite snack.
You can get a 10% discount on https://www.firetreechocolate.com when you checkout (over £10 purchase) using LIFESHOT10 until the end of October 2020
Find out the best water to drink for optimal health and which water to consume that is best for the environment.
There is so much hype about water, alkaline and hydrogen water, sparking and still, mineral or spring. Listen in to this short podcast about what water you should be drinking.
Here is a link to the water I suggest at the end of the program
This week on the lifeshot podcast I speak to Hannah Danielle who runs her own dance business up in Doncaster UK. She is super passionate about dance and all its benefits to your life. Benefits such as feelings of accomplishment and belonging to the physical and mental benefits it provides. She is also keen to advance into the area of dance movement therapy which is a great way for certain people to overcome fear or get in touch with their emotions, and of course many other purposes. Listen to the podcast now and hear how Hannah has taken her life long passion and turned it into a business of helping others have fun, feel free and dance their way to wellness. Article about the benefits of dance here (as you may have heard in my intro)
This week we welcome endurance athlete Jamie Marais who has written a book called Determination, and he wants to inspire people to reach for their dreams by being determined, and by having a belief system that says I can achieve anything I put my mind to.
Jamie is a very determined person. He is helping out as much as he can during this coronavirus pandemic, two of the ways he is doing it is by helping to raise awareness of poaching and raising funds for the anti-poaching unit at Kariega Game Reserve.
He is also raising money to help feed almost 1000 people in the communities surrounding the game reserve who are finding life very difficult at the moment with no income coming in from tourism.
You can help by donating money to this great charity here https://www.kariega.co.za/about/save-the-rhino
See his other interview about his climb on table mountain in Cape Town.
https://www.facebook.com/jamiemaraisSA/
http://www.awesomesouthafricans.co.za/jamie-marais-summits-table-mountain-22-times/
I had the privilege to talk to Breathing Expert Tim van der Vliet on lifeshot! It was a great talk as I am super passionate about breathing exercises ever since I discovered the Wim Hof Method almost 2 years ago.
Check out Tim and Wim Hof doing a video together here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-4qfTtOb8s
His website is here for enquiries into coaching and counselling https://www.timvandervliet.com/
Confidence coach Scott Hardiman joins us in this episode of lifehsot. We are talking about mental health and wellbeing today. Find out how Scott leads his clients to success and how he holds a vision for his clients so that they can overcome the problem or hole they have dug for themselves, it's the reason we say we are in a rut sometimes.
We tend to carve paths or ruts by our actions and Scott coaches people around carving new and more exciting and beneficial paths for their lives.
Listen in now to this exciting podcast.
Visit Scott's page here if you are interested in coaching with Scott. https://www.scotthardimancoaching.com/
Remember to check out https://www.lifeshot.co.uk for supplements which can also help with your mental wellbeing. One product that I recommend is Ashwaganda, you can find it here
Liz Marsland from https://www.LMFIT.uk talks to us about our Nervous system.
It is such a vital aspect of our daily motion. How we function, whether it be muscle function or brain function our central nervous system is the central point of all interactions.
Learn how to look after your nervous system so that you can perform well in your job and have great relationships
As an employer do you provide a healthy and exciting work environment?
Do you encourage your workers to look after their mental health, and what steps do you really take to make your company a great place to work?
Find out in this talk with Sally Acton from https://www.torque.pro
Check out my online store where you can buy health and wellness products
https://lifeshot.co.uk
In this episode of the LifeShot podcast, we explore holistic health.
How does your mental state affect your health, and how does your gut affect your mood and mental health?
I speak to Leanne Spencer from Body Shot Performance who runs us through things like healthspan vs lifespan.
Check out my online store where you can buy health and wellness products
https://lifeshot.co.uk
I speak to Liz Marsland from http://www.evolvingwellbeing.com
Don't die early by not doing the right thing during the day at your office job.
Things we spoke about during this podcast session
- Getting out in nature
- Standing up and moving during meetings (active meetings)
- Massages at work
- Habits that help your wellbeing at work
- Movements that promote health (primal movement)
Check out my online store where you can buy health and wellness products
https://lifeshot.co.uk
I spoke to DJ Eazy in a live Facebook stream and I thought I would upload it here on my podcast. I hope you enjoy the stories and are inspired to keep living and working on your dreams!
I am running a free live webinar "How To Kick The Sugar Habit" this Saturday the 16th May 2020 at 4 pm UK time. Please register here
https://clintgrove475.clickmeeting.com/how-to-kick-the-sugar-habit/register?_ga=2.63489644.2125437440.1589185206-550713875.1589185206
Check out my online store where you can buy health and wellness products
https://lifeshot.co.uk
I speak with Dietician, Dalia Maori from Cambridge, United Kingdom.
We had a very interesting conversation about lifestyle choices, what to eat and possible lifestyle changes we might encounter on our return to normal life after Coronavirus lockdown
For more info on Dalia check out https://www.dalianutrition.com/
I speak to Lee Grigsby today about goal setting and finding meaning and purpose in this turbulent time
You can find Lee here on FB https://www.facebook.com/liveallgood44-100619014748685
I speak to Julie Langlois, a life coach and Qigong specialist. We spoke about meditation, diet and movement in this live Facebook streaming session.
I watched an interview with Peter Attia on Health Theory and I loved his tag line "Kicking ass at 100" I thought, yes, that is what I want to do! I hate thinking of getting old when I look at the norm in society, sure there are some guys who defy that like Hélio Gracie a Brazilian jiu-jitsu master who is 95 years old at the time of this recording and he still does jiu-jitsu.
But sadly for most the prospect of getting old fills us with dread when we see old people crippled over and using zimmer frames, walking sticks and the usual oversized waist area.
Listen in this week to find out why it's beneficial to both yourself and to our earth to have people living longer and longer!
https://www.clintgrove.com
Social, economic and political turmoil. We are in the biggest pandemic our generation has known. It is unprecedented. No one knows what just hit them.
Will life carry on as usual? Will life be forever changed?
I speak to Wayne Dilles, a scholar in political science and economics.
It's so important to look after your body in a time like this where we have a pandemic running riot around the world. Learn 3 things you will get and benefit from when you do a detox body cleanse.
You can join my online group program which starts sometime mid-2020 subject to the Coronavirus situation.
Click below to access more information about my online group program
Register your interest in the online group program here
In this session, I answer a question from one of my clients who has just gone through my 14 Day Body Reset Program.
You can join too by clicking on this link, spaces are limited and the course begins on the 15th April 2020
https://www.clintgrove.com/coaching/14-day-body-reset/
The question was "How can I stop craving sugar after my main meals". Have a listen to this short podcast to gain some inspiration on how to kick the sugar habit.
A weak core is one of the main reasons why people have back issues.
What nutrients and supplements do I need to maintain a healthy back -> Omega 3, Magnesium and Calcium
Stress is what walks through the door each day at Dr Warren Jordan's office!
In the Cambridge area, playing touch rugby a few weeks ago, I swooped down to pick up the ball. As I pounced up off the floor an amazing pain shot through my body, I knew immediately it was a herniated disc and that it would see me out of action for a few days.
Never did I think it would keep me off work for 4 days and actually make it difficult to walk in the first few days! I asked my old friend Dr Warren Jordan who I have known for over 15 years about how injuries like mine can be prevented, if at all. I had a really insightful and great chat with him. I am sure you will learn so much from this highly experience holistic Doctor
Read more about Warren Jordan here
Join me on this fun and fast-paced podcast where I speak with previous guests, whom you might know. George O'Farrell, a Fitness and mindset coach, is first at 2:44 into the podcast.
I then speak to Lee Grigsby who is a Health Coach from the USA (6:18) about his lifestyle where he works nightshifts
Dr Carmen James shares her views on CBD and how it can help you get better sleep (11:05). And lastly, I have Dr Ian Tennant who challenges us to keep it dark at night and fill up with good light during the day.
Book a free coaching session with me, I can help you understand other ways to balance your blood sugar levels. You will discover what you really want from your life and health. It's a breakthrough session and you will gain so much from this which might even take you on a new journey! https://calendly.com/coachclint/60min
Thanks to Podcorn who is our sponsor for this episode. Explore sponsorship opportunities and start monetizing your podcast by signing up here: https://podcorn.com/podcasters/
Today’s session is slightly different in that it looks at a different set of relationships that influence our health. If you’re someone who likes to ‘treat their body as a temple’ – today we’re challenging where the temple is – and where your body/temple/home starts and finishes.
We’ll talk a lot about microbes – which I believe are the interface between your inner and outer worlds. The interface between the biology that makes you ‘You’, and the biology of food that makes food, ‘Not You’. From this example, we will see how we can only be as healthy as the environment that we’re bathed in. (Goldfish example)
Putting this session into the context of this 6-week series – which has been all about health. The first five episodes we’ve spoken largely about common behaviours, habits and lifestyle choices we can do day to day that affect our physiology, our biological rhythms and support our wellbeing. From getting a good night’s sleep, meditation/mind/emotion/relationships, cold/heat, light/dark, movement/rest etc.
In this session
- Gut ecology and health - we want the right team of buddies supporting us from the inside. [wild fermentation bridge]
- Soil ecology and plant health – plants need a ‘dream team’ of buddies to help them stay robust and to provide us with nutritious food.
- Glyphosate and health – the main component of the herbicide, Roundup, has detrimental effects on soil ecology and our gut ecology.
- Other ecosystem services – forests, rivers, cloud systems working for us. What is the monetary value of these?
- Gaia hypothesis – the earth is a self-regulating organism that supports life
- What can you do? - Daily choices and the use of purchasing power.
The book from where we get the topic for this episode is available here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Restoring-Balance-return-natural-health/dp/1089556977
A link to Ian's site is here https://restoringbalance.life/
Your body is an orchestra and the conductor is everything it is exposed to, the environment, the ingredients you put in your mouth, the images you see and the sounds you take in. Some bodies are playing a great tune, others are off tune.
Most of the time we can sense when we are off, something does not feel right, we lack energy, we feel inflamed, maybe a little heartburn. I speak to Dr Ian Tennant about a topic in his latest book - chronic inflammation and chronic illness.
Everyone is susceptible to becoming chronically ill, if you expose yourself to bad toxins, bad food or a bad environment for long enough you are in danger. Learn about how you can balance your body with some techniques such as breathing, good food choices, how you rest and how you sleep.
The book from where we get the topic for this episode is available here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Restoring-Balance-return-natural-health/dp/1089556977
Ian's website is here https://restoringbalance.life/
With so much man-made wifi, 5G and other signals what are we to make of all this is it affecting our health and if so what should we do about it. This is session 4 of 6 of the Get Healthy series with myself Clint and Dr Ian Tennant a professional healthcare practitioner. Listen to this week's show and leave us some comments on what you enjoyed the most!
The book is available here
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Restoring-Balance-return-natural-health/dp/1089556977
Ian's website is here https://restoringbalance.life/
See www.clintgrove.com/podcast for more details on this episode
Ian Tennant website is here https://restoringbalance.life/
Music on intro: I Saw Three Ships by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
Artist: http://audionautix.com/
Ian Tennant website is here https://restoringbalance.life/
Listen here or on your favourite podcast app. To see more detail about this episode before you listen navigate to my site www.clintgrove.com/podcast for more
Ian Tennant website is here https://restoringbalance.life/
Listen here or on your favourite podcast app. To see more detail about this episode before you listen navigate to my site www.clintgrove.com/podcast for more
Listen here or on your favourite podcast app. To see more detail about this episode before you listen navigate to my site www.clintgrove.com/podcast for more
Listen here or on your favourite podcast app. To see more detail about this episode before you listen navigate to my site www.clintgrove.com/podcast for more
With guest, Jamie Bower and Lee Grigsby.
When you think of your future self what do you see? Do you see a vibrant, confident, giving and fulfilled person? Or are you too scared to dare to dream? If you want your future self to be different to your current projection then you need to start making small incremental changes to a better you in the future.
Behaviour change leads to belief change which ends up in identity shift. Having an identity shift is a great thing, but it comes with some downsides like others not liking this new you, and others not liking your new success.
I speak to Jamie Bower and Lee Grigsby about their thoughts on this matter
Listen here or on your favourite podcast app. To see more detail about this episode before you listen navigate to my site www.clintgrove.com/podcast for more
In his short time here on this amazing planet, George has accomplished a lot. He has started his own coaching business at 18 years old. He already has an established list of clients and has entered a bodybuilding competition called the USN classic 2019 where he won the category for Teenage Men.
His drive and ambition is inspiring and I hope that many young people watching will go on to do great things like George has.
We speak about nutrition, and how important it is to educate yourself so that you know what is good and what is not good to eat. George gives us an insight into how taxing it is on the body when going into a bodybuilding competition.
Training and how to keep motivated. If you are a coach then hear about how George guides his clients through routines. All this and more in this week's episode.
This episode is sponsored by Phoenix Fitness https://www.clintgrove.com/recommends/phoenix-fitness
Check out more episodes at www.clintgrove.com
I recommend Inov8 Running and walking shoes, get them below (this is an affiliate link)
https://www.clintgrove.com/recommends/innov8-running-gear/
James has a varied background. He was a combat soldier for 8 years and left the military in 2009 and has been somewhat obsessed with food ever since. He has used food as medicine in order to counteract the effects of PTSD. James told me that when you reduce the inflammation in the body by eating foods that are anti-inflammatory you will give your mind and body a better chance to overcome depression and other chronic diseases.
After speaking to James over a month ago, and then subsequently doing this podcast I was intrigued by the concept of building gardens that supply food on a continual basis. I came across a TED talk where a lady from the UK decided that she wanted to do this in a town called Todmorden.
What is a Permaculture garden?
Permaculture gardens are engineered as self-sustaining systems for growing food. By utilizing processes inherently found in nature, we can increase productivity and reduce energy input. Plant Guilds are designed into the food forest system working together to produce food or support the production of food.
I hope you enjoy this episode and that you are excited about perhaps starting one in your community
Join my facebook community here
Links here
This is an example here in the UK
https://www.incredibleedible.org.uk
http://www.fao.org/agroecology/en/ https://www.groundswellinternational.org/approach/agroecological-farming/ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Syw1yfaWieQ
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9ZukMyejLk
I hear from Lee Grigsby and Jamie Bower about their personal stories, and how life has led them to become health coaches.
Lee found himself close to having full-blown diabetes and has pulled it back with great diet and rigorous exercise, Jamie's story is not dissimilar, he fought arthritis and asthma in the same way, the battle still continues but both men are in great shape and are an inspiration for those fighting the same battles
Our sponsor is Phoenix Fitness Please check our their great store online for great equipment for keeping fit at home https://www.clintgrove.com/recommends/phoenix-fitness
For more great episodes check out https://www.clintgrove.com
Our sponsor Phoenix Fitness(Paid link)
How do we know what our optimal energy level is? In reality we do not know what our maximum potential is. We can however have a feeling of bliss and feel a state of high energy and I suppose in this state we can use it as a measure to compare our previous states or alter states with.
Claudette is a psychologist with 19 years of experience dealing with patients who have varying issues they wish to overcome or goals they wish to accomplish. In her past experience she has covered many topics and speaks to us today about her passion in the field of nutrition and energy levels
We also speak about my favourite subject which is heart coherence. Meditation and breathing can increase the ability to connect with your heart. What was interesting in our conversation is that I discovered that Claudette is a an affiliate to them at the heart math Institute and uses one of their eMwave pro’s to guide her clients on creating better heart rate variability.
I talked to several friends of mine this weekend about the joy of music, what it does for us and how it helps us in our every day lives. I truly believe that music has the power to move us out of bad times and into good times. Allow the music to do this for you, don't forget to put the radio on when you are feeling low, don't forget to use it with your kids and use it at a party, don't even have a party without one! And when you are trying to get romantic with the wife, put those jams on man!
In this episode, I speak to my wife Esther Grove, Mark Bell, Colin Young, Angharad Bell, Karen Peachey, Mel and Tom Petie.
This week's episode is sponsored by Phoenix Fitness https://www.clintgrove.com/recommends/phoenix-fitness (this is an affiliate link)
To help you manage stress, my step program that I offer in my coaching consists of
1- meditation
2- breathing exercises
3- moving (core body strength)
in this episode I mention rest, the ability to say no and balancing blood sugar levels.
Your ability to deal with stress and relieve it so that it is intermittent and not continuous is the key to a sustainable life filled with happiness and joy.
We should enjoy our food, we interact with food at least 3 times a day. Our relationship with food is so important and we cannot neglect to spend time on really being honest with ourselves about how we feel about the food we eat.
Your body is the most powerful, least expensive and BEST dietary experimentation lab in existence. Why? Because the body has innate wisdom beyond any book or authority. No matter which phase of life you are in, your body is the ultimate dietary authority (HCI Stacey Morgenstern)
There is no perfect diet, every person is different and you should not feel that eating is a chore or that you need to restrict yourself. You need to find what is right for your body, listen to and feel your body as you try certain foods. Mix and match the guidelines from different diets and see what works for you.
In this episode: Intuitive eating, emotional eating. Alcohol, cakes and why it's important to enjoy your food
Dalia's website
The future of AI and our creative minds. Antony Wootten speaks to us from an authors perspective. Creative thought is still needed to write, draw, paint and imagine worlds beyond what experience. It's not all futuristic or science fiction, but also nature. When Antony speaks about the beautiful environments that have been created in video games he is talking about scenery. The amount of effort and creative energy that has gone into making these stunning sceneries is phenomenal and it is a testament to the fact that creative energy is still alive and kicking in the UK and around the world
Children in our modern day do not always have the time to express themselves artistically, although well meaning schools have provisioned time in their curriculums for this it is almost seen as an inferior part of a child's learning, and rather SATS are put at the forefront of what is measured and what is seen as a successful school is the marks that children get for reading, writing and maths. Reading and maths are not as creative as creative writing, painting and drama. Allowing children to express themselves artistically is vital to our future world.
Our future creative minds lie in the hands of parents now. We need to take time to nurture our children's minds by allowing them the freedom to play, create and build whatever they want and with guidance from us to encourage them on their journey.
I found an article about this topic on Forbes https://www.forbes.com/sites/annapowers/2018/04/30/creativity-is-the-skill-of-the-future/#6ffa49034fd4
https://www.antonywootten.co.uk
Ron Wallwork is the 1966 Commonwealth 20 miles walk champion. On a hot day in Jamaica in 1966 Ron went on to beat the favourites Ray Middleton and Don Thompson when he decided to not take a drinks break and carry on walking to gain a lead. This move was first thought to be a bad move and would cost him the race or worse cause him not to finish, however it paid off for Ron and he went on to claim the victory.
I spoke to Ron about his life and about how a champion is born. What it takes to live the life of a champion and what it takes to win on the day.
If you are looking for great walking or running shoes. I highly recommend Inov-8 (paid link). These shoes are superb and will leave you comfortable and supported during your walking or running activities.
For gut health and better overall wellness, I recommend Sense Nutrition products (paid link)
(This description contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.)
Helen runs retreats several times a year in the beautiful Cornwall coast. As a well-seasoned Yoga instructor, Helen coaches people in order to be able to enjoy running more by using Yoga as a means to prime the body and get it into the right shape to enjoy running even more.
Running shouldn't hurt the knees is something Helen said during our interview and running should not be a burden on your system. Cardiovascular training is not all bad and it should not be totally deleted from your training routine. If you are a strength trainer like me you should also find time once a week to really get the heart pumping.
Check out Helen's website here
https://www.runbetterwithyoga.com
Ever hear of Inov-8 running shoes? Check out our TRAILROC range: back and better than ever!
If you are into contact sport of any kind I recommend Safejawz mouth guards. Get them here
(This site contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links)
Transcription: Interviewer: Helen Clare from 'Run better with yoga', it's good to have you on the show. Interviewee: It's great to be here, thank you for inviting me. Interviewer: And is it sweltering hot in Cornwall as it is here in the East of England? Interviewee: It is, Cornwall is amazing today. I spent a little time in the garden today, it is sunny. Interviewer: I know, it's beautiful. But it's actually a bit hot in my office. Interviewee: It's been a warm [00:00:39] I think. Interviewer: I think it would be good for our listeners and our viewers to get a background of who Helen Clare is, the business that you set up. It's quite inspiring to see your posts on Instagram, that's where I started following you and saw your different posts. I am quite jealous on where you are running, all of these beautiful hillsides and seasides. What was it like growing up, where did you grow up and what led you into this path?
[00:01:10] Interviewee: Okay, sure. That's quite a story. So I actually grew up near where you are now. I grew up in Essex, up until I went to university and I did a lot of travelling. And I started practising yoga around that time, so my early twenties were when I started practising yoga. Throughout my youth, I was a competitive swimmer, so I came to yoga from quite an athletic background and I wanted to use that as a way of balancing out all the athletic endeavours and training sides of things that I was doing. I ended up living in Japan for a year after university. And that was the time where I started to get further into the meditation side of yoga and started to really experience the well-rounded practice that it is. I travelled for a few more years longer, I started running a lot more than swimming. Running is much easier to do when you are traveling, you can do it anywhere. And then I ended up down in Cornwall. I've been in Cornwall for 10 years now. Just before I arrived here, I trained as a yoga teacher. So I trained as a yoga teacher from Scotland after all my travelling through Australia and New Zealand, Japan. I came down to Cornwall and that is where I started teaching. I started working with a lot of runners here and that's where my yoga has grown from it, the last 10 years. It evolved into what it is today. But taking my athletic background, going deep into my yoga practice and then see what I can share with people. And now, what I love to do the most, is help runners to run better using a lot of the principles from yoga. So helping them to avoid injury and helping them to run in a much more natural way. And a lot of that can come from a yoga practice. Interviewer: And less injuries, I suppose? Interviewee: Absolutely. Yes. Interviewer: So tell us about your business, you say it's been going 10 years. What was it like in the beginning? Has there been a rise or has it been a steady growth?
[00:03:28] Interviewee: Yeah, I think there has definitely been a growth and an interest in yoga over the last 10 years. I think there's no denying that. And I think, from a personal point of view, when you're growing the business in a location, people start to hear about you and that's another reason why your business is going to grow. So yes, my classes have definitely grown in size over the years and it is lovely to have word of mouth recommendations. So I have a lot of students now and I get to see a lot of students on a one-to-one basis as well as in group classes. And I have retreats down here as well.
Interviewer: So do people travel to your retreats from around the country? Interviewee: Yeah, they do. From around the country and from around Europe as well. So I've recently had a few people who were from Belgium and Holland. And definitely all around the UK. I've done a couple of retreats over in Portugal as well where we've had international students there as well.
Interviewer: I saw your website, you've got a digital business going on as well. Are you offering videos online? [00:04:37] Interviewee: Yeah, apart of my weekly blog, I send out a free video each week, yoga for runners, a specific aspect of yoga that they can do at home or sometimes a running tutorial. I've started this digital aspect of the business to try and help more people experience 'Run better with yoga' and the things that I do. So yeah, I have an online program now, where I can get on track and I have people around the world using it and getting all benefit from it. Interviewer: So the reason I ask is because it would be good to get some of your business advice. Because there's a few people doing this type of thing and obviously the market's wide open and there's a lot of need for online training. I'm going to be also providing some video training on my platform under my personal brand. So what kind of advice can you give for people who are just starting out, they want to do this e-learning or video series, what is the first step that they're going to take?
Interviewee: The number one thing has to be your free content. So make sure you are offering something free and valuable every single week. So whether that's a blog post or a podcast, like what you're doing, or a video in my case. So people have to be able to see that, that you have somebody really valuable to offer and then they're going to start following you and eventually go further with you and perhaps buying a product or course. Interviewer: It's about getting that brand loyalty first. Giving some value. [00:06:10] Interviewee: Yeah. You've got to show people what you can offer and they have to know they can trust you. Interviewer: Yeah. Building that trust is a big thing. So I had some questions lined up. Thanks for telling us about yourself and it's great to get to know you. I want to know the benefits to the cardiovascular system, also the benefits to your mental and your physical being with running. Because you hear a lot about running being bad for the knees. Cardiovascular is not that good anymore, you always hear conflicting advice, don't you? And as the years go on, advice changes. Because yours is called 'Running better with yoga', what do you have to say about running in particular and cardiovascular?
[00:07:08] Interviewee: Okay. Well just first off, running should not hurt your knees. If it does hurt your knees, you're not running in the right way. That's one of the main things I help people do. I help them to get strong and balanced, so that they can run with correct alignment. Then you won't getting any pain or serious injury. As for the cardiovascular, I believe that we definitely need a cardiovascular element. We have to have that in order to have sufficient fitness to strengthen the heart, improve the whole blood pumping system and lower our cholesterol and lower our blood pressure. It can strengthen our immune system. So I think it's definitely still an essential part of what we need to include in our weekly, daily activities.
Interviewer: So would that look like doing a bit of strength training, but not totally neglecting high cardiovascular, breathing really heavy type stuff? Interviewee: Yeah, definitely. I teach runners yoga routines that are strengthening and mobilizing. So that might be something they do in the morning. They get their strength work. They might do a longer strengths session on a day when they're not running. Or they might do a shorter one and then go for a run and get that heart rate up. They're working their spiritual system and they're getting the body moving. And then after that, they might do a post-run yoga session, which is going to be a recovery session to stretch out, release the muscles and the tissues then. Interviewer: I've been listening to a doctor, Joe Dispenza and I haven't yet got to the part of his book where he talks about walking meditation and it just sprang to mind, is there such a thing as running meditation? [00:09:08] Interviewee: Yeah. So when you get into the flow of it, it becomes like a moving meditation. And I think for me, I have to be here in Cornwall along the coast path, when there's no one else around and I have the wildlife and the ocean crashing against the cliffs and I don't have to think about anything else. I can just go into my rhythm and follow the coastal path and flowing with the environment. And it becomes this really peaceful, calming state of mind. So that I would relate to and call that a bit of a moving meditation. Interviewer: What if people that aren't in such a beautiful part of the world, what do you suggest? Interviewee: That's a good question, because I know not everybody is as fortunate as I am. I would say that you can probably still find at least an element of that. Most cities are going to have a park at least to run around. I know a lot of people who actually prefer to run on roads. It depends on your personal preference and maybe there is sort of this rhythmical sense of running on a flat road just with that buzz and the traffic in the background, maybe that can be meditative as well. We've got to experiment, give it a chance. You've got to get into it and you'd have to be able to run in a comfortable way. If you're dealing with injuries and niggles and complaints, it's not going to be quite such a meditative experience, is it?
Interviewer: Yeah. You don't want to be thinking about pain in your joints when you're trying to zone out. Interviewee: Exactly. Learn to run properly and then it can become really, really enjoyable. Interviewer: So what are some of the things that you would do for somebody who might come to you, they might say that they really want to do this, but have had knee problems in the past or hip problems. What are some of the exercises that you'd give them?
[00:11:02] Interviewee: That can vary so much from person to person, which is why I love to work on a one-to-one basis. Most of the times though, I would run someone through a series of very simple tests. I would test the strength of particular muscles, particularly around the hips. I would test for tension and over-tightness in the muscles, again, particularly around the hips. And then I'd watch and observe them in a simple yoga routine and I can see further where areas of potential weakness and potential tightness are, and then I can tailor a sequence to suit them. Where we are going to strengthen the areas that they need to strengthen and release tension in those other areas where they need to do that. Interviewer: Do they get almost immediate feedback from doing these exercises? Because I'm thinking it's hard work sometimes. And if they don't see results, they might tend to give up. Interviewee: Yeah. So, in many cases you can see results really quickly just from a session or two. Depends on the situation, obviously. But if there's a real either weakness or tightness, you'll start to see results quite quickly. It might take a few weeks, but all of my students have seen positive results. Interviewer: What does it take mentally to do this? Because it's one thing to say "Alright, do this stretch". But sometimes that's hard and sometimes it takes more than just trying to do it. How do you teach them mentally to go beyond and really push past the limit? [00:12:46] Interviewee: I think where yoga is different to just doing a series of stretches, is that it does encompass much more than just the stretches. You make it part of your routine. It involves breathing, finding focus and awareness, really becoming aware of your whole body and feeling what's happening. And those poses can become really enjoyable and very calming. And there's that relaxation element of it as well. So, I make a sequence for someone and then I suggest how they can make it part of their routine. And if you can start to implement it at the same time regularly each day or every other day, or whenever, it becomes more of a habit. And because you're getting more from it than just doing a stretch, you're getting all the other benefits, enhanced awareness and the mental benefits, more clarity. You're getting the relaxation side as well. It becomes a more enjoyable process and you can feel more benefit. I think when you feel benefit from something, then you have motivation to continue. Interviewer: Yeah. What's going on in my head is this world where people come to you every morning and you are like their guide and then they do the yoga with you. Like the old aerobics thing where you go to a class and everyone just follows the leader. Is it similar to that or do you just say "Hey guys, come for a few sessions. This is the routine and you've got to go and do that at home"? What does it look like for you? [00:14:23] Interviewee: If I do a weekly class - which I do, I have weekly students that come see me every week - I will lead the class and I'll walk around as I'm teaching and I will help people as I'm teaching them through the sequence. So that's a little bit different. They are following my instructions for an hour and a half. If I see someone on a private individual basis, they'll come to me perhaps with an injury or post-injury and I'm trying to help them through something, then I'll give them a personal sequence and then I'll send them home with that sequence with suggestions of how to implement it. And I'll stay in touch with them throughout the week to motivate them and answer any questions that they have. And then we'll meet up the following week and we'll see what differences there are and do some other tests and I can tweak and modify the sequence that they have. And then on a retreat, I get to spend longer with the groups, I see them for a morning strengthening and mobilizing session and in the evening for this relaxing session and then get to speak to them individually in between about their own little individual things. So that's a lovely experience, because you get to spend much longer with someone and learn more about how you can help them. Interviewer: And the relationships are strengthened, then people get to know you better. Great way to build rapport with your following. Interviewee: Yeah. It's lovely to spend that time with people. Especially if they've been coming back for retreats for a few years or if you know someone's been following you online for a while. Interviewer: How has this type of training - yoga and running - helped you to overcome any challenges in your life where you could say "Doing this type of thing has really helped me to overcome this challenge"? Is there anything that comes to mind? [00:16:16] Interviewee: I don't think I've had any major challenges to overcome in life, but I know that both the yoga and the running seems to have enhanced my life greatly. I can't imagine my life without them. And I know that there's definitely been a mental and emotional shift since I started practicing yoga. I think yoga has this amazing ability to allow you to just sit back and become more mindful. You start to observe yourself more from within and you start to respond more carefully to other people and throughout life rather than reacting instantly. So it's definitely been that, that I've noticed. And similarly with running, we already talked about that moving meditation element. You get to go out and just run and then everything feels much better. Interviewer: That's brilliant. Let's go on to nutrition. Do you have advice to give our listeners? There's lots of different advice out there now. You've got the keto, which is good for some people, but maybe not for others. Some people need carbohydrates, maybe. And there's the Paleo diets and there's so much different advice out there about what we should be eating, vegan diets. I spoke to a guy from the Original Gym here, Jon Nicholson. And his advice was simple and it didn't really have any kind of rules about it. It was just to eat, as much as you can, whole natural food, not processed food. But he didn't mention anything about meat and fish and all that, but as far as nutrition goes, to make sure that your body is primed, in tune, as in best performance. What do you think? [00:18:14] Interviewee: So my opinion - and in my experience from both personal experience and my experience from seeing results in my students - I recommend a plant-based whole foods diet. So it's a vegan diet, but rather than just using that word vegan, we say plant-based whole foods. So, completely natural foods, unprocessed. Lots of high alkaline foods to keep our PH-levels up. If we allow our PH to drop too much and become too acidic, then that's when we're at much higher risk. Interviewer: What would those foods look like? The high alkaline ones? Interviewee: You want high alkaline foods, which are really dark leafy greens. Spinach and kale in particular, spring greens, that kind of thing. And other vegetables as well. Fruits for carbohydrates. Interviewer: I found this difficult, because I'll wake up in the morning and I want to follow this. I've been challenged to try the vegan diet. I did it for a few weeks and I just wanted rump steak on the barbecue. But then after that, I think "Let me try the keto". And that's also difficult because I wake up in the morning, I'm like "Okay, cereal". No, cereal is not going to work. It's processed first of all. And if I was on a vegan diet, having eggs is not an option. Breakfast is quite a tricky one, isn't it? What do you have for breakfast on your mornings? [00:19:56] Interviewee: Well, for breakfast, I do tend to have porridge most mornings. I try and find the most unrefined oats that I can and then I put in chia seeds for protein. So I think that's a good breakfast. Or if you had the time to make a chia seed [00:20:14], coconut milk overnight, then that's also a great really high protein breakfast. Interviewer: And no sugar? Interviewee: No sugar. Interviewer: That's tough. Interviewee: Maybe you could add date syrup, that's good. Interviewer: Okay. So you recommend a vegan diet and has that not hindered you in a physical way as in doing sporting things? You don't lack energy? [00:20:41] Interviewee: No, I have enough energy for sure. Interviewer: You are getting enough protein in there? Interviewee: Absolutely, you don't need to eat meat for protein. We get more than enough protein from a well-balanced plant-based diet. And we need to think about also digestion. If we can eat foods that digest easily, then we are left with more energy. So if you go and eat your rump steak, that's gonna put a lot of effort on your digestive system, you are going to be left with less energy. But if we can eat something that's much, much easier to digest like vegetables, then we have much more energy to go run then. Interviewer: Yeah. So I read the Sadhguru book, 'Inner Engineering' and he mentioned that fact, when you eat a raw vegetable, that digests in a quicker time than a cooked vegetable, I think you said that. Which is quite an interesting thing. They said that fruits and vegetables digest within two hours in the system. So that's very quick and that we should chew our food a lot, as much as we can, so that our stomach doesn't have to do as much work. I thought it was interesting advice. And I have seen the results myself where I've eaten vegetables and I find that my energy is good after a while, but you don't get that immediate satisfaction, like eating a doughnut, for example. You don't get that immediate rush. And maybe it's an emotional thing. Do you think that we are emotionally attached to our food in the way, we've got maybe a bad relationship with food? [00:22:18] Interviewee: Yeah. I think many, many people have an emotional attachment to food, for sure. And that can take a while to get over. Perhaps it shouldn't be a case of cutting off the stuff that you love and enjoy 100% straight away. But doing it gradually, cutting down on those high sugary foods gradually is going to be much easier process. You're not cutting yourself off straight away, but you're starting to feel the benefit. Interviewer: How long have you been doing the vegan diet? Interviewee: Almost 10 years. Interviewer: 10 years. And this is about as long as you've had your business going on? Interviewee: Yeah, yeah. So I was mainly vegetarian before that. Then, when was vegetarian, I adjusted a couple of years and then it just came about naturally, really. I just felt like I naturally didn't want to eat dairy anymore. Realized that I was then living pretty much a plant-based diet. Interviewer: Let's talk about getting older now. How do you see the future going for yourself, doing this type of exercise? Are you like "I want to stop when I'm 70" or "I'm going stop when I am 80"? How do you see yourself aging in this process? [00:23:56] Interviewee: That's a good question, because I have thought about that, too. I can't see myself stopping what I'm doing for a long, long time and I would like to think that I am still definitely practicing yoga through my seventies and eighties and possibly even still teaching it. There are plenty of yoga teachers that have gone into their seventies, into their eighties and still been teaching yoga. I think it does have a way of keeping you young. So fingers crossed that happens to me as well. And running as well. I know plenty of runners who are running into their old age. I think if you have that proper efficient strength and mobility, you look after yourself, you're eating the right foods, then there's absolutely no reason why you would need to stop running. Because running is a natural thing to do, we were made to be able to run and move across the land. So yes, we're going to get older, obviously. And that is going to have its effect and we might start to run a bit less or a bit slower, less often, but I can definitely see myself still running. Yeah, definitely until 80, let's say. Interviewer: Not giving up. I think you've done well in your business, you obviously have these retreats, have people around and go digital as well. Is there a plan for the business to go into different areas or expand or are you happy at the moment that it is as it is? [00:25:35] Interviewee: It's going to expand, but within what I have already. So I'm gonna stay with my retreats, but my retreats might go to some different venues. I might adjust the content. I regularly do long weekends here in Cornwall, maybe I'm going to extend them to four weeks. Because there's a lot I want to teach on the long weekends, particularly this year, I felt like I needed more time. So I might extend those. I've just launched my first online course and I'm about to film my second online course, so that's going to be launching in October. And then I have ideas for another one for next year. So retreats and online courses. Just giving people more value and looking at what my students really need and I want to be able to offer them that. Interviewer: So what is it that you want to teach people at these retreats? You said you didn't have enough time. What is it that you think you missed out? What's the most important things that you want to get across to people? [00:26:39] Interviewee: It just a lot that we can cover in terms of the yoga practice and different ways of practicing that I want to share with people and that is going to ultimately enhance their running ability. Obviously, you're never going to be able to teach everything on a retreat. A retreat is always going to be an infinite amount of time. And the idea really with it is to inspire people to continue with it. But on these retreats, as well as the yoga, there's also the running workshops. And it was quite hard to fit in all the elements of natural running that we want to cover in a long weekend. So just having maybe a bit more time for that would offer people more to take away with. Interviewer: I interviewed a lady, Joyce Crawford, she walked a hundred miles in 24 hours. And I spoke to her about the mental challenge of doing that race over 24 hours and trying to stay awake and get there in time. She does nature walks all the time. So always walking out in nature. I'm interested in that connection we have with nature. I just wanted to explore that a little bit with you before we go. How important is it and what benefits do we get from being out in nature? Do we have to think about it differently? Do we have to take our shoes off and walk on the ground sometimes? What do we need to do? [00:28:18] Interviewee: Well, I think if you have the opportunity to go barefoot outside whenever you can, I would. The physical perspective of strengthening your feet, I think is an absolutely great idea. But if you don't want to go to barefoot, and it's not always practical to do so, just being outside in nature has incredible benefits to your overall well-being. So it's definitely been shown that being outside in nature boosts our mental well-being, it boosts our inner joy that we have. It makes us feel happier. Interviewer: What do you put it down to? Is there a reason for that or can't we put our finger on it? What is it? Why does it do it to us? Interviewee: I don't know exactly why nature has that effect on us. I think we could maybe find out, but I would say it's where we are meant to be. We're not really meant to be cooped up in boxes and in buildings. We need to be outside in nature. And I think that's our natural habitat and that connection with wildlife and with trees and being in the grass and listening to the ocean and feeling the sunshine, all of that together gives us an incredible boost. Interviewer: Yeah, I think that the very fact that we need to breathe every few seconds shows our reliance on nature. And the fact that the trees give us oxygen and we give them back carbon dioxide. It's a beautiful relationship. [00:29:58] Interviewee: Yeah, that's exactly what it is, that relationship. Interviewer: Yeah. So, Helen, it has been great talking to you. I'm going to put your links on the YouTube description. So for anybody watching on YouTube, check out the description. You'll get some links to Helen's business and a go for a retreat in Cornwall. That'd be great. So I don't know if they get booked up pretty quickly, do they get full quite quick, Helen? Interviewee: They do tend to sell up pretty quickly, yes. So dates for next year will be up in the autumn, so September or October are released then, the 2020 dates. Interviewer: So people have to wait a whole year pretty much, if they want to join? [00:30:44] Interviewee: There will be two or three retreats next year. But yeah, just a couple of months to wait to find out when the dates are to book. Interviewer: And how do people follow you? What's the best way? What's the single point to say "Hey, I want to get a hold of Helen", if they don't click on the link, where would they look for you? Interviewee: Well, the best place is the website runbetterwithyoga.com. And Instagram @runbetterwithyoga. I'm on there regularly. Interviewer: So you got that name nailed. This is it, Run better with Yoga. Interviewee: Yeah. Nice and clear, to the point. Interviewer: Brilliant. Helen, it has been great talking to you. Thanks for being on the LifeShot podcast. Interviewee: Thank you so much.
Public speaking can be some peoples worst nightmare. It is important that if you are going to be an influencer or if you are going to run a successful business or climb the ladder in your company, that you learn to communicate in a more effective and powerful way.
Tamara is a Communications specialist coach. Day in and out she is teaching people who work in business about how to communicate, how to make a speech or do a presentation without losing your audience. It is quite a job to keep the attention of an audience. We see all these Ted talks and they make it look so easy. But it takes time and dedication to really nail the art of speaking
Tamra teaches about breathing, taking a pause, using different words, our comforters and learning new things to get the neurons firing in our brains. If you are interested in improving your communication this is your first step in your journey. Find out what a person like Tamara Wentzel could do for you or for your business.
You can find Tamara on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamara-nicola-wentzel-28293212a/
Or
on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tamaranicolawentzel/
Transcription:
Interviewer: Welcome to the LifeShot podcast. We've got Tamara Wentzel. Tamara, welcome to the show.
Interviewee: Hi Clint, thank you for having me on your show today.
Interviewer: My pleasure, all the way from South Africa.
Interviewee: Yes.
Interviewer: In sunny Durban, I take it? Or is it raining there?
Interviewee: A bit. Slightly cold. I think it's about 16 degrees, but you know, that's warm in the northern side of the world. But yeah, in Durban we're having Winter at the moment, so we're quite enjoying it. It's still sunny outside. You can still go to the beach. It's quite enjoyable.
Interviewer: Oh man, I miss the beach. I like this type of thing, because communication is one of my things. I'm speaking to a communications person here, but I just want to introduce you to the listeners. So Tamara is a communication specialist who helps people in corporate industries to communicate better. So using speech development, vocal range and tone, body language, gestures, eye contact, speech formula patterns. And her top four skills are public speaking, vocal management, customer service communications and English development frameworks. Tamara, it's so good to have you on the show. And today we're gonna talk about communication, like listening and speaking. You were telling me that you're gonna be traveling soon, just tell us about your travels that are coming up.
[00:02:35] Interviewee: So I train different types of groups for different trainings in Durban and also locally and internationally. So it all depends on different workshops that we do. Sometimes it's customer service, sometimes it's communications and public speaking. For example, I taught a one day eight-hour public speaking conference yesterday with 10 people from a transport company and there are all different types of conflicts. Sometimes people are sales managers, some of them are executives or some of them are in management and they just don't know what to do when they come up to present in front of a class or in front of their team. And they freeze or they start stuttering.
Interviewer: Stage fright.
Interviewee: Stage fright. And yesterday we had one example of a man, he was a sales manager and he came up and I just asked him to read one passage. It was a speech from Nelson Mandela and three times in the passage he ran away. Because he could not keep standing there. And it's really this fear that we have of conversations, of dialogue, of public speaking. So I travel to all different places. I've been to Nigeria, I've done training there. I've done a training in Sao Paulo in Brazil. I'm often called after Johannesburg or Cape Town for training. I work with different corporates, like in Empangeni and Richards Bay and Kokstad. And at the end of September I will be going for a mini conference. One of my clients are setting up a public speaking forum at their academy and I'm going to just be talking about the aspects of accent neutralization as well as different phonic sounds when it comes to the English language. So that will be happening in Tel Aviv, in Israel. And I decided that I'm not just going to go for one day, fly all the way there for one day. So I've also joined a touring company. So I will be exploring Israel, Jordan and Egypt over 12 days. It will be my first time in those countries. I'm quite excited. But also, I'm going to be going looking at the history, historical aspects of different religions as well and obviously through the Christian religion as well. But I'm quite excited for it, because what I like about my job is that it takes me places. And wherever I go, I try and squeeze in an extra day or two to find out about the cultures, about the people and the languages. And I think people are amazing. You're really out of your comfort zone when you get to travel. And you also miss home a lot more when you travel.
Interviewer: And you're taking your kids with you?
[00:05:10] Interviewee: My son, Luka, he's 21 months old, so he won't be able to come with me. But I've got my grandparents and my parents and his nanny will be watching him. And this will be the longest away from him. I have normally gone five days. Last year I went twice to Nigeria for five days and I travel and I come back. So this will be the longest, but he is used to me traveling and then I often take the week off of work when I come back to spend time with him. He's still young, but I do like to take him when I travel as well. When I go to Cape Town, he comes with me. We're going back to the UK next year, hopefully in May. So he's going to come through. You've got to juggle it.
Interviewer: You have to come see us.
Interviewee: Yes, I will come through. We're mainly looking to go to family in Bristol and Colchester and obviously Monmouth and Wales. But we will definitely find out where you are and just try and map it through.
Interviewer: We can collaborate in something.
Interviewee: Yes!
Interviewer: You've got a small child and obviously the way we communicate can really help us in life or hinder us. Just give us a framework of why it's important. I think we all know intuitively why it's important to communicate well. But I suppose from your perspective, you're trying to teach people how to communicate well, maybe doing a speech or something like that. But just from the life perspective, would you encourage people to get better communication just for general purposes?
[00:06:45] Interviewee: Yes, I would definitely recommend them because if you look at the human form in all types of nature, even when you're looking at animals, they communicate. Dogs through barking, lions through roaring, different gruntings. And when it comes to humans and the psychology, if we look into it, we have to communicate through eye contact, through gestures, different cultures have different gestures. You might find that Italians or Brazilians like to use their hands more. Different people like to have closed-off gestures. But your body without you even speaking is giving off signals all the time. Your body posture, your eye contact, what your eyebrows are doing, whether you're smiling or not, your head position. So that all comes into factor before even someone starts talking to you. If someone starts to talk to you and already they're squinting their eyebrows, you already feel, "Okay, this is quite serious. What are they saying?" And you might even think that the person is... Maybe they've lost their glasses and they're actually squinting at you because they can't see you. But you think, "Oh my goodness, they're so rude, so disrespectful". So communication is key to all elements because for you to be taken seriously, whether it's a conversation between a husband and wife, between a kid and the parent or a boss and his employee, we've got to take into effect our communication. And with having cell phones, we constantly have the screen in front of our face. So when we go to a restaurant, the first thing we do is we sit down and we put our phone on the table. And even though you're talking to a friend or a spouse or child, you are already adding a third person into the conversation. We've also stopped describing. So before we used to say to people, "You know what, I watched a beautiful movie on the weekend, it starred Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. And it was in Venice. It had great stone walk areas. They had little cafes". Nowadays, we don't even describe colours or pictures or sizes or shapes. We just say, "I watched this movie on the weekend, now here's the trailer". So we're actually going back, we're not learning anymore. So then people coming to the workplace, often enough... There was a communication expert called Dr Leo Buscaglia, and a lot of his videos - he died in 2006 - so his videos are quite old on YouTube. But 30 years ago, he was talking about how we need to communicate better. And nowadays, can you imagine what he would say if he was here? So a lot of the time we stop using face to face interaction. We treat people like robots or machines, in a machine type of way and we are not like that. And I think it's so essential, even myself, we all make mistakes as parents, but I'm trying my best with my son. I only really look at my phone or laptop when he goes to sleep.
Interviewer: Oh, that's tough.
[00:09:51] Interviewee: It is very tough.
Interviewer: I'm there with my phone. I'm thinking "I should get off this phone, but I just got to do this thing quickly". You always got to do something quickly. Why?
Interviewee: And you always feel like saying to the child or kid, "Just wait for me to finish. I'll be with you right now". Which is fine to some point, but I always say, even when you're out with the kids, I know myself when Luka's flown on the airplane, he had my phone and he watched Postman Pat. Because it's the only way for him to not scream and cause havoc. But when we go to the restaurant, it's also looking at the element of play as well with the kid. Describing things to your kids. Even on the table, you might have a salt and pepper. You might say, "What shape is the salt? What colour is the salt? What does salt taste like? What does salt smell like?" It's a simple thing like salt, you could really describe with your kids. The other night when I was in Empangeni, I was by myself and I went for supper and I found a couple and they had three young daughters. I think the oldest was nine. There was a five-year-old and a two-year-old. And the parents, the whole time, were on their phones. And there's these three little daughters waiting for their food. And the whole time the parents are like this. And I just felt so sorry and you can't intervene. I mean, I'm a communication specialist, I feel like saying "Get off your phones", which you can't, because they've got to realize it themselves. But these three daughters ended up playing with themselves and the youngest one obviously being two years old, running around and the parents disciplined her about three times. But I looked at that and I said, "You don't realize that you are the problem, being on your phone". So I always say, if you don't need it, if it's not urgent, you need to prioritize your time. So you can say to the child, "Look, two minutes. I've just got to message this person. I've just got to send this email". Then put it away and try to spend time with them. And we need to prioritize our kids and the communication factor. And I always say it starts at home because whatever starts at home is related to work. If you're successful at home, you're successful at work. If you communicate well with your spouse and your kids and your parents and whatever, you communicate well at work. A lot of people don't think it's interrelated to them. And every day a lot of people in corporate go to work for eight hours a day. You're spending eight hours with someone that is a colleague and you might not like that colleague, but you spend more time with your colleague than you do with your own spouse. Because you only see them at night, in the morning and the weekend. You spend more time with your colleague than your child. So say if you can practice communication at home and at work, it has a bounce-off effect and you'll find that you're more open with people. And life is to be lived once. I mean, tomorrow - if you think about it - if you didn't go to work, they would replace you. But if you had to pass away, God forbid, the next day, your family would suffer. And I always say, "No one ever remembers what you have to say, but how you said it". When people pass away, a lot of my clients, they always look at pictures of their moms and their dads, their brothers, but they say, "I just want to hear their voice one more time". And I always say to clients, "Make sure you record your voice". All our iPhones, all our devices have recordings. It's free. And sometimes it's just life advice, which I like, it's what you do, Clint, your podcasts. Because your kids, can you imagine, in maybe even 10 years’ time, they are going to want life advice. And maybe you're traveling and you can't always talk to them. At least they can have somewhere to download your files, to inspire people. Because audio is so important when it comes to psychology and memory.
Interviewer: That's brilliant. I spoke to Carvin Goldstone. I labelled him the master storyteller, he's really good at telling stories and it just really, really struck a chord when you said, "We don't describe things anymore". And for me, I find it hard to describe things, with all these pictures. So is it something that we could work on? Even now as adults, is the dog too old, basically?
[00:14:02] Interviewee: No. We always have the saying "A dog is never old for new tricks". I've got clients, I had one neurologist, he was 74 years old and he spent his whole life figuring out the brain and surgeries and dealing with people with back injuries and strokes. And he came for an eight-week communications course and he said it was the first time ever in his life that he's actually heard his voice. Because every day you're in conversation with people, every day you're listening to what the person has to say, how to respond, how to diagnose. You're not paying attention to your pitch, your volume, your control, your breathing, your dynamics.
Interviewer: It's almost embarrassing, in a way.
Interviewee: It is. Because he's this professed neurologist in our country and he goes to tons of conferences and he's like, "Oh, I didn't know that, my r's, I over-pronounce it". So what happens is, with our words, we need to be aware of how we sound, like recording our self every night. But also, what we can do is look at synonyms. A lot of clients, I say to them, "You need to get a thesaurus". And they go, "What, is that a dinosaur?" And I said, "No, thesaurus is a dictionary". They said, "What?" I said, "Yes, it's a dictionary for all the synonyms". So they're like, "What's synonym? Is it an ingredient?" I said, "No, a synonym is another word to describe something similar". And for example, we get very mundane. We say "That's very good. That's very great. That's good. That's good". All the time. I say change it up every week, adopt a new synonym.
Interviewer: I caught myself on my podcast. I always said the word "Interesting". I said "Clint, you have to stop saying the word 'interesting'.
[00:15:47] Interviewee: Yes. So all you can do with Google, it's amazing. And when people use 'good', I say "Say perfect, say fantastic, say phenomenal, say amazing". All these words, you can even just Google every week and say, "What's another word, or what's the synonym, for interesting?" And then there will be at least 12 other suggestions and choose one of those. And every day, implement it. So every day say 'phenomenal'. "Oh, that is phenomenal. That's a phenomenal cheesecake. Oh, that was a phenomenal talk".
Interviewer: So you have to change it every week or something?
Interviewee: Yes. So say 'phenomenal' at least nine times a day with different circumstances applied to the right situation and then the next week choose another synonym. And you'll find that, "Oh wow, I'm learning new words". And also, the best place to learn and the cheapest place to learn is the newspaper. When we read, our attention span is so short, because on Instagram and Facebook we just swipe all the time. And I say, get the newspaper down, choose the front cover and read every single word out loud from every article on the front cover from the top to the bottom. And then you start to realize, "Oh, there's words there that I've never heard before. What does the word 'methodology' mean? Okay, let me Google it. Oh, it means this". I mean, Google is so amazing now, you've even got the Cambridge dictionary, you've got the normal Google, and it gives you the audio. So you can hear the pronunciation, the American and the British pronunciation of it. It's incredible. It's actually just us reteaching ourselves and keep on inspiring. I've got a bachelor of arts in English literature and a lot of people think, "Well, once you've studied there, that's enough". I'll still be learning new English words until I'm 90 years old. One of my goals in life is just to master myself. And that I think that's the process of it. No one can fully understand each language. And I believe also expanding our languages help. I'm fluent in Portuguese because I spent some time in Brazil and through that, a lot of words are similar. The letter structure...
Interviewer: You see similarities, don't you?
[00:18:08] Interviewee: English came from Latin. So in English you will have the word serpent. And in French the word serpent means snake. And then in Portuguese, there'll be a word 'differentia', which means differences. So it's not completely different. But I think the most important part of life is that we learn all the time, continue learning. My mom is one of the great examples. She got her PhD two months ago, in oncology nursing, in compassion fatigue. So she's looking at burnout for doctors who have cancer patients, so they get suicidal and depressed. So she looked at interventions and my mom's 56 years old and she got her PhD and she's continually learning all the time. And I get sick of it when people my age or in their thirties or forties say, "You know what, I've got a masters, I've got a PhD, I'm done for life". You're never done. And the learning is not always just at a university or courses. Learning is for anyone. Around us. I always teach this to my clients, in an office - like yesterday - I had 10 clients and within those 10 clients there were four languages, English, Afrikaans, Zulu and there were two Chinese people that spoke Mandarin. And I said, "Sometimes, if you notice someone who speaks another language, just ask them every week or every day, "What's the word for sugar, or milk, or conversation?" And you just get a little book and write it down. And then you've completely learned and you're starting to learn a new language". There are apps that are free, like Duolingo as well to help you with languages. But once you keep on learning, your brain develops new neurons and the more you have new neurons, the more intelligent and wiser you become, because you are more sensible and humbler to the world and it's understanding.
Interviewer: We did have a whole lot of questions. We kind of covered a lot of ground already, which is great. So I mean, we can always repeat some things. I was listening to one of the guys you recommended.
[00:20:11] Interviewee: Yes, Julian Treasure.
Interviewer: Yeah. And I really liked what he had to say and I know you learned from him and others. So when I was younger, I got a Larry King book and I was like, "Yeah, I want to learn how to speak better". And in that book, he was talking about something like prosody and all that. So I want to get down to that question, why is the use of vocal intonation or prosody important? For people to hear our voices so that we're not monotone and we're so boring? What do you have to say about that?
[00:20:44] Interviewee: So prosody, we normally simplify it in South Africa as emphasis and infliction. So when we're looking at the voice, there's all different aspects that you need to work on. Breathing, there's resonance, for example, if you're speaking from your chest resonance, your throat resonance, your nasal resonance. And then you look at all different aspects of the voice. But the most important we look through is prosody and modulation, which is really to say how your voice sounds different. So a lot of people are monotonous. They speak on one tone all the time. So their pitch is not falling through. And sometimes we practice pitch exercises, like when you're singing. Highs and lows, like if you can say the word 'sweet' for me?
Interviewer: Sweet.
Interviewee: Very good. And can you say 'low'?
Interviewer: Low.
Interviewee: So your e's and vocal range are normally higher pitch and your o's and ow's are lower pitch. So can you try say 'sweet', but say it low?
Interviewer: Sweet.
Interviewee: Can you say 'low', high pitch?
Interviewer: Low.
[00:21:53] Interviewee: Okay. It's uncomfortable. So what happens is, with our vocal range, you often find that we need to practice those through. So what we start doing is using infliction, because we use infliction every day. If you think about Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory, he was very sarcastic. So he was never asking the right questions. He might ask a question like, "Do you want a cup of tea?" You're not like, "Are you stating that? Or are you asking it?" So we have the rising infliction on "Do you want a cup of tea?" which is part of prosody, because it's an infliction. But if you have to denotate someone's name or let's say we have a really bad relationship with Larry, you'll put a falling infliction, you'll say, "Don't speak to Larry". So the Larry goes down at the end, the last R and the Y. So that's the importance when it comes to prosody because people know what you're saying. And they also have emotions to it. I'm not saying to you that Larry's a negative person, but just from the falling infliction of Larry's name, you know that you can't speak to him. So there's really a huge psychology behind prosody and how our mind wires it and it comes from parents as well. Because we have grown up with parents that speak a certain way. When we communicate at school, the teachers used to say to us, "Say the sentence". And we used to practice questions and answers as a child at school. So from there, our memory comes in and we know the differences between prosody high rising and falling, but sometimes when it comes to life, that falls away and we forget. So we really have to go back into that and make sure that we are asking right questions. I have a lot of corporate clients that end up asking this question, "Is the report finalized?" But they'll say, "Is the report finalized?" And you're like, "Is that a statement? Is that a question? Are you interrogating me?" If you want to talk fast paced, make sure that it sounds like a question. "Is the report finalized?" You might emphasize report. So 'is the' will be quite plain, 'report' will be emphasized, 'finalized' will then have the rising or falling infliction. Naturally, when there's quite a severe circumstance like death or if there's been an accident or something very negative, our voice will automatically go to falling inflections. Like "I'm so sorry to hear that". So it will continue to go up and down, up and down, but it's important to have prosody, so people can understand the emotion also behind it.
Interviewer: Very good. You spoke about speech formula patterns that you teach. Let's say there's somebody listening to us right now. They want to get better at public speaking or they speak at their work, they do lunchtime talks, whatever they do. It's quite popular at my company where I work. And they want to be better at talking. So do these speech formative patterns play into that scenario?
[00:25:09] Interviewee: Yes, they do. So speech formula is looking like the mathematical equation of how to make something. When you look at for example a cake, you need the ingredients for the cake to make the cake. Because if you don't have ingredients, the flour, the eggs, the milk, the sugar will just sit there. So when we look at the ingredients and we look at the cake, we need our method and that's what we look at speech formula for. We have our ideas in our brain on one side and then we have our speech on the other, but we're really not sure how to patternize it. So some people come on and say, "Hi everyone. Today I'm going to talk about..." The next minute as they're talking, something else comes up or someone talks to them. So they need sort of a structure. And that's what we call 'speech formula'. So there's all different types of speech formulas that you can find online that you can apply for. You do have your basic speech formula, which we also use for essays. So we normally say with that assignment or your speech formula, we have your special start. So you always start with your audience - be it in person or on radio, or whatever - with something special, to get their attention. Because you have seven seconds to get your audience's attention.
Interviewer: That's not a lot of time.
[00:26:30] Interviewee: So if you start "Hello everyone, welcome today...", you've lost the audience. A lot of people end up doing that. They'll say "Today I'm going to read..." and then all of a sudden everyone's off. So you can start a speech, general speech formula, special start, people like to use humour. Like a joke. Some people use statistics. I had a client once, she runs Blue Sky Society Trust. So they look at elephant conservation in Africa and she started with a statistic and she said "Did you know that 42 elephants are killed every day in Africa?" And then the whole audience kept quiet. That's the special start. Now you've got your audience's attention. So once you've got your audience's attention from the special start, just do your introduction. So you say "Today I'm going to be talking about..." And your introduction shouldn't be long. Normally with writing, we write a paragraph, it should be two sentences. So you can say like "Today I'm going to be talking about how to effectively use your voice for public speaking". Very simple. And then the basic speech formula you go through is your middle. So you cover a couple of points and then you summarize at the end and that's it. But I've managed to come through different speech formula patterns with different clients. And as the one I discussed with you here, I'm just gonna read it out a bit, as prep. So I've got a couple of clients that are in government as well. And what happens is, they need to have a type of acronym. And I love acronyms. I think they are fantastic because it helps you remember what you have to say. So the one that is often used is 'prep'. Like a preparation. So the P is 'presenting that idea', what are you presenting? So you might say, "I'm presenting a new water system to happen in the city". And then R is for the 'reason of the idea'. So you put statistics, the needs, the complaints, the recommendations. So you can say, "We've had a dire situation in Cape Town where there were water problems. There was dehydration and they're all statistics. Everyone knew about it. It was all over the world". Complaints, recommendations. And then you talk about the 'efficiency'. So you're going to say, "How will this idea be implemented?" The time frame and quality controls. So you can't say, "Oh, we will get it fixed next week". You've got to say, "Okay, it's a five-year plan or it's a ten-year plan and the Department of Waterworks or the local government or the different water companies across the world will be coming in. They will be constructing a dam or constructing new pipes". So you've got to talk about the efficiency of it and then you end it off with the 'purpose'. You have to sort of re-incline why we need it. So who will benefit, how the community will find purpose with this idea and where will this idea factor be within the next 5 to 15 years? Because we've always got to look to the future aspect if you want something positive. And this prep-acronym that we use as a speech formula has helped so many clients. Because sometimes they will get people asking questions at the R or at the E, the efficiency. And then they just summarize and remember, "Oh, I've done P, I've done R, I've done E. Well let me finish up, I've got five minutes left, let me finish the P". And it helps you in your mind to just gauge control of what you have to say, how you've said it. And also ending off on a positive note, making sure everyone will benefit. Because when people listen to you, they want to benefit in some way. So that is the speech formula framework. I'll go through them again, for the listeners out there, P: to present the idea, R: the reason for the idea, E: efficiency, and P: purpose, that is prep. So you can try and shape your speech patterns or formulas into that. It could be that you're talking at your school, it could be that you are talking at your office, it could even be a wedding speech or that you are doing it for a friend. That speech formula will help you to summarize and be concise. And it will help you summarize what you have to say and coherent in what you say.
Interviewer: Yeah, that's a nugget there for the listeners. So go ahead and use that from Tamara, prep. So Tamara, we've spoken about some really good things thus far and I'm just conscious of time here. So I want to move on to eye contact, because it's something that I'm not the best with, at the best of times when I should be doing it. Because it probably takes a bit more effort to do it. But with eye contact, we talk about when we talk to someone and when we are listening. People who are not confident, they struggle with that. But how do we deal with it? How much emphasis should we put on eye contact?
[00:31:34] Interviewee: I think quite a lot of emphasis on eye contact is very important, because within the digital age, we do become very distracted. So our eye contact is always going somewhere else. Even right now, I'm talking to you on Skype, if I just had to - while I'm talking to you - start looking over here, you can see that my eye contact is completely away from the screen. So then you feel like the person's not listening. So that often happens, I've got clients who like to take notes on their phone when they're in a meeting, so they're taking notes and then I say to them, "But then your team doesn't feel that you're interested". And they said, "Yes, that's so true". Because often they get told, "Are you listening? Is that important on your phone?" So I said "Rather take notes so they can see that you're not just distracted, but you are listening and they obviously have something valuable to say if you're taking notes", on paper and pen. Getting back to the importance of writing. Writing is so important. Typing is using the one side of your brain. Writing is using both sides of the brain at once. So writing is so important, as well as people feel that you're listening, especially with eye contact as well. So if you're taking notes, you're looking up to the person and you're writing, they can see it's more important than if you were on your phone. Because how often do we also just look on the phone for other things? We get distracted and see messages and emails. So with eye contact, you can also practice this through. So for example, the tellers at the shops, I don't know if it's in the UK, I know sometimes they have those self-service tills, which I got very confused about two years ago when we were trying to use them. But what I liked to say is, often enough when we go to the tellers, we don't think we need to look into their eyes. We just say "Hi, here's my card". We're almost too scared to use eye contact and I say use it as a practice with people around you. We do have like a cultural cloak sometimes to some cultures, especially in South Africa, they're told not to use eye contact, because it's disrespectful. For example, in the Zulu culture, in the Islamic culture, young women aren't allowed to use eye contact. But when it comes to the professional climate, I say we have a cultural cloak. And what we do is we take off our cultural cloak and we hang it on the door and we ask people permission. We are going to say to them, "Every one, I'm going to be using eye contact today. Not to be flirtatious, not to be disrespectful, but to talk human to human". And then you've got to work on your eye contact as well. Practice going through every person in the room, one by one. You don't want to bulldoze someone and give them direct eye contact or intimidate them, because they're probably going to run away. But you also don't want to avoid them. Because sometimes you don't like someone in the office. We all have people that we don't get on with, it's human nature. But if we completely avoid that person and talk to everyone else, that person who you are avoiding will take out their phone, take out their laptop and start talking to the person next to them. If you don't like the person, give them eye contact. Obviously don't be demeaning eye contact, but give everyone adequate eye contact and that's something you need to practice. You also have to assess it. I know there were studies being done at Cambridge University that children and animals, pets at home, they felt to be important in more adult contact. They felt that they needed a screen in front of their face. Because when you get home after a long day at work, you have your phone in front of your face. So kids and animals are growing up thinking that this digital device is important to have contact. And you know that when you come home from a long day, if you have a dog, he'll probably look at you and your eyes. The same with your kids. So we know eye contact is important, but somehow through awkwardness and all sorts of different types of disrespect, we think we can't use it. So it's something for you to practice with, making sure everyone feels included in the audience, as well as just practicing and implementing it every day.
Interviewer: Yeah, I notice that, the other day I was in a social environment. There were a few guys talking. But one guy kept on talking at me and I'm quite conscious of body language and eye contact. And so, is it important that that person be rather looking at all the people in the group? Or is it just natural that people are like, "Oh he's an interesting person, I'm talking to this guy"? Even when there's three other people around?
[00:36:14] Interviewee: It is hard, because I'm also a body language specialist, so I do assess the whole element. People who are tilting their heads, moving their hands, which fingers are moving. So sometimes you might find that someone's more comfortable with you, because you get people that are socially awkward. So they might find that by looking at you, you might not even know it, maybe in the circle of group of friends, you might have had someone who doesn't like eye contact. That they grew up in a family that doesn't use eye contact at all. And I think it's a British nobility thing, as a British culture, that if you don't like something, you turn your head away. So often we don't see things, like class and being superior and that's all to do with eye contact. So you might find that someone's grown up in an environment where they don't like eye contact. So this person might've been talking to them and they're looking on the floor, they're looking up or they're looking away. It's also very militant eye contact as well. So, in the military you don't use eye contact, you don't look anywhere but at the target. So when it comes to eye contact, sometimes that person might have felt more comfortable looking and talking to you because you're engaging with them. But then you feel like, "Okay, he's just talking to me" and you might then see that those people actually move off. And then it becomes a one-on-one conversation. And then they are probably thinking, "Did I say something wrong?" Meanwhile, it was just eye contact. You never looked at them. It's so important.
Interviewer: We spoke about the body language and our posture and folding arms. And I find that quite difficult. And you had something to say about that as we were growing up. About when we're crossing our legs. What is it that you tell your clients about the actual body itself?
[00:38:09] Interviewee: When we are speaking in public, so public can be one-on-one or it could be quite a few people, you might find that you are feeling uncomfortable. Now this could be for various reasons. It could be that you don't know the person. It could be climate, that you're actually quite cold and you need a jacket. It could be that you're just tired. But your body language, without you knowing, is sending off signals. Let's for example say that I don't know the person, or even in public, we're having a conversation, I'm feeling uncomfortable. So your body, psychologically, if you think about it when you were a child, we were hugged, we were held. When we fell on the floor, our parents would hold us. If you think of a baby, when they were born, they were swaddled, they were held. So in our subconscious, we have those psychological emotions that come through. So when we're feeling uncomfortable in public, you might find that you actually hold yourself. So that is crossing the arms, this is a comforter. So right now, I feel very good. So I have clients that sometimes sway. And that goes back to the swaying mechanism of when you were a child. So right now, I could have a really good voice and I could have correct pronunciation, a great facial expression. I could have a fancy suit on and amazing jewellery, but me just swaying and closing my arms is really distracting you. So it doesn't matter how you sound, your body has to be in sync with your voice. So what we always say is looking at gestures, finding out the right gesture to use, descriptional gestures. Because sometimes people use their hands too much. But also having your hands just on the sides of your body is better, so you don't fidget too much, we are not closed off. I do find a lot of clients, especially in corporate, they end up putting their hand here. And they think it's to be taken seriously. But if someone's looking at you like this, it's almost a closed body posture. So that's the most important thing that we need to look at, getting rid of our comforters. Some people use words as a comforter, like 'hmm' or 'ah'. A lot of people use the word 'so' or 'like'. So, to continue. So, so as we, so, so, so or like, like this, like that, like that. So the words are often used as a comforter for something you're feeling. Like insecure, you're not practiced in your speech, you're not practiced in public speaking. And it happens. But we always say, take a deep breath in, go back to your normal body stance, and you carry on. And it's about letting you have a deep breath. And you know, [00:40:55] said "There's nothing wrong with silence". A little bit of silence can't do any harm, especially if you're rushing and rushing and rushing. Your breathing will be fast, your heart rate will be fast. There's nothing wrong with just doing a pause.
Interviewer: Pause, get your thoughts back together.
[00:41:12] Interviewee: And then re-engage with your audience. You would probably know that, with all your experience and radio and recording. But a lot of people don't know that, and they feel that they have to talk fast because people aren't listening or they're wasting someone's time. But the faster you speak, the more that you can make mistakes. So you need to take that pause, that deep breath in and then re-engage with your audience.
Interviewer: No, the audience is not going to go anywhere.
Interviewee: No, they're not.
Interviewer: Not within two seconds.
Interviewee: And people can always go over-time, as long as you ask them. If you're really engaging, you might say to everyone, "Look, I'm just going to be an extra two minutes. Is that okay with everyone?" And more than likely, no one - unless they're very rude - will say "No, you can't". So you can always ask the audience and just remember, when you have an audience, it's like having a conversation, everyone thinks it needs to be a performance. And within drama and performance, what I've studied, it's important to see the audience and yourself as a performance. But also, it's a general conversation. Can you just have a conversation with 50 or 100 people at once instead of one-on-one? So if we can treat each other just like a general conversation, be more comfortable, you'll feel more comfortable and they will listen to you more of what you have to say.
Interviewer: And then it could be more influential.
Interviewee: Yes.
Interviewer: Which leads me on to listening and being influential. So... There's that word 'so' again.
[00:42:43] Interviewee: It's fine. Don't worry. It also happens to me. And I'll be honest with you, because everyone thinks that when you're a coach, you supposed to be 100% perfect. I also review and analyse people in public. If you watch Prince Harry in the UK, he often has a comforter where he puts his hands in his pockets and he's been taught in public speaking because you can see it. Look up a couple of videos with Prince Harry, you'll find that he'll try put his hand in his pocket and then he'll take it out. So it's somewhere in the back of his head and he's like, "Oh, I shouldn't do that. Let me undo that". So even people in big public areas, people in monarchy, they also make mistakes, but it's knowing about how to make your way around it. We're human, we're going to make mistakes. But it's about comforting, the thought of it afterwards, to practice. There's even the king of Jordan, king Hussein, he has a comforter and it's in speech. He likes to say the word 'tremendous' all the time. "It was tremendous. It was a tremendous time. We had a tremendous number of people". And that's his comforter and he's been doing public speaking for 34 years. So there's always areas that we can all improve on. So it doesn't matter if you're top in the monarchy or just an average person like me, you will always find ways to improve.
Interviewer: Yeah. So this is going to be a good lesson for me. I'm on a journey. So my journey is one of self-exploration, in a way. I've been intrigued by a lot of podcasts that I've been watching myself, with the London Real and Lewis Howes and Joe Rogan and Impact Theory, I've been watching all those guys. And so what I'm trying to do for my listeners, is to help them to be a better version of themselves and also to be confident about who they could be in the future. So when it comes to being somebody of influence, this is what I want to tackle right now, which is listening. Because sometimes we think that we always have to speak and speak to inspire and talk so that people can hear us. But what is it about listening? I've been listening to you awhile and I'm gaining a lot of information. But what could we do as listeners in a conversation? And it would also help us to influence people to say, "Hey, this guy is a good guy", even without saying words. "This guy is somebody who is influential".
[00:45:18] Interviewee: Well, a couple of listening techniques I just jotted down here earlier this week that's important, it's also just about knowing that the person is listening. So sometimes when you're talking to someone, you know they're listening if they're doing something like vocal or verbal signals like 'ah hah', 'yes, really', or nodding their head. I always say, put digital devices away. So, if you are influential and you know that you're making an impact to your audience, not a lot of people will be on their phones. And you are allowed to, as the speaker, to ask everyone to put their phones away. It's okay, I often say it. The biggest group I've ever taught was about 400 students at UK's Den, they've got this new thing where every student has a laptop. And I just say to everyone, 'I just want to this to be a professional climate. Please, could you just put your laptops away? And then once I'm finished, you can open them up again". I think it's very important information. You don't need your digital devices. You might find one or two people might have to take a call that is urgent, which is okay. But if you can address it in the beginning, you're going to help with problems later on. So I always say, put all digital devices away. Use your posture inclined towards another person. So what happens is, my body posture is right now to the computer to you. You know I'm talking to you. If I just had to swivel my body posture just over here, you can see my shoulders are posturing towards - obviously you can't see - the door. But if I had to talk to you like this, I can turn my head, but you will know that I'm not really listening because my posture's inclining towards somewhere else. We always say: Don't let architecture stretch your body. If a chair is stuck or even a podium is stuck, you can still move around on stage. There's nothing wrong with a short walk to get your audience's attention. I have a lot of clients, who have podiums at the city halls, who are stuck on the stage. And I say, there's nothing wrong with walking forward, backwards. Don't get stuck behind the podium or the microphone. Sometimes, if your audience is quiet enough, you can talk without a microphone. It's all about vocal projection. Or I get a handheld microphone. We'll try walk through with a microphone on a cord. But make sure your posture is always - we call it sometimes the performance V - so everyone is in your V. Make sure your audience is in your V, that no one's behind you, your posture's inclining towards everyone and that you can be open and talk to them. Because a simple thing like a square, if you have a boardroom and no one's in your performance V, then someone is going to feel left out. And then they won't be listening. Another one is use open arms and hands to show that you're listening. If you're pointing at people, people will start feeling a bit destructive, "She's singling people out". Also, if you have your hands closed, a lot of people do this, which shows sincerity, but at the same time it is closed. So, you know people are listening also when you mirror their body language. If they're open, they're like, "I agree with you". Then you know they are listening. Make sure your back is always straight, your shoulders are composed, it shows you are awake and listening. There's nothing worse than talking to an audience like this.
Interviewer: Slouched in their chairs.
[00:48:56] Interviewee: Because they are going to fall asleep. With some presentations, especially if I'm presenting towards the end of the day and people have been sitting in six and seven hours of meetings, I say to everyone, "Everyone stand up, take a deep breath in, breathe out and sit down". And then they're like, "Oh, that was refreshing". And that was a couple of seconds and their backs are straight, they're listening again. So sometimes you physically have to put them in that element. Nodding your head, using vocal or verbal signals like, 'aha' or 'yes, really'. And then also ask for clarification. So I often use this with my clients and I think it's so important. When you're talking to someone, get your fingers out of your hands and you portray it as 'what', 'when', 'how', 'where', 'who', and also 'why'. So we always say what happens. So when you're talking to someone and they are over-expressed and emotional, they are rushing you say "Okay, can you tell me what actually happened?" And then you move on to "When did it happen?" Time, what part of the week, the day, whatever. Then you say "When did it happen?" And then you say "How did it happen?" "Where, who was there? And do you know why it happened?" And with those simplistic things, already they know that you're listening, because you're asking for specifics. So you are reverting back questions to them. And that really helps with listening skills.
Interviewer: There is a steep rise in podcasting. I think it's because people, maybe they want to learn more. I don't know. Is there more of an appetite for education? I'm not too sure. Maybe there is, because for me personally, I'm starting to listen to more podcasts. I want to learn more, I want to become a better version of myself, I want to transform, I want to be on this journey of bettering myself. And so, there's this rise in podcasting and with the rise in podcasting, people need to talk and people need to listen. It's important then that, if you're going to be a speaker, that they take on some of this advice that you've been into. You've given us a lot of recommendations already today, but are there some resources out there? What could people do as a next step, to take their communications to the next level?
[00:51:29] Interviewee: There are a lot of free resources on Google, there are also different vocal coaches in the world. And there's all different types of training companies that you could join. You could also always follow me on Instagram or LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn as well. There's a lot of places like the New York business insider, the London insider, they talk about communication skills, because if we look at soft skills, everyone used to call them soft skills. So people thought, "Oh, it is to be softer". So they've re-branded it as communications skills, which is much better. It all has to do with listening, to speaking and reading and writing and all these types of things that you need. But I think the most important is being aware of how you speak. And I think if anyone wants to do a podcast or any type of audio or going to speak in front of people, you need to go home tonight, take one page of a book, choose a random page, number 72, and read it out loud and record it on your phone. And after that, listen to it. And if the first thing that comes to your head is, "Oh, my voice sounds horrible!", then you know you need to work on it. Because you don't have a relationship with your voice. We're born with a voice and we die with a voice. But a lot of people end up not knowing how they sound. So you need to build a relationship with your voice. And that's what I do as a vocal coach, I often train people, but you can do it yourself. And through that, you need to start recording every week how you sound. So you can start to hear if there's improvements. The most important factors I look at is pace, modulation as you know is prosody, breathing and emphasis. So rarely looking at the pace of your voice, notice that most influential speakers use pace. If you are on a podcast and two minutes in, you are hearing, [talking fast] "Welcome today, and as we go through here, we're going to, la, la, la, la, la". That's all you hear. You'll switch it off. You know, so look at your pace. You don't always have to stop at the full stop or the commas. You can choose pace whenever, there's a difference between written and spoken language, like written and spoken English. So maybe after every two or three words you might pace yourself.
Interviewer: So changing the pace?
[00:53:52] Interviewee: Yes. Changing the pace, you create your own pace. You might have a sentence, for example that will have no commas and only a full stop. "Hello today we're going to talk about the world". So there are no commas, just a full stop. Now if you had to talk with that on one breath with no pace, it would sound like this. "Hello we're going to talk about the world". So maybe for my example I'll say "Hello. Today, we're going to talk about, the world". So I've already added in two pacing lines. You, however, might do differently. You might say, "Hello, today, we're going to talk about the world". So you've got to figure out your pace. But pace is so important with speaking. You obviously don't want to be too monotonous with pace, like saying "Today.. we.. are.. going to.. par-ti-ci-pate in..", obviously those are the politicians, because they've been taught about pace, but they do it incorrectly because they're not practicing it. So you really have to figure out, where does your pace come into? And the next would be then modulation, the prosody. So looking at how you say words, are you going to be influential? Or are you just going to speak on one tone all the time? Because if you have good pace but you are speaking very low, you might find that your audience will doze off. If you're talking for 20 minutes and you really want to look at the fact that you want to sell something or you want to talk about the importance, you've got to find out when you can re-invite your audience to feel enthusiastic about what you have to say. For example, a song. You get the chorus of the song, that's the part when everyone goes mad, they love the chorus. You've got to find a part of your speech that has a chorus. If we had to take the song Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen, the whole Bohemian Rhapsody doesn't really have a chorus. But it continually goes up and down and up and down and up and down. But everyone knows that the most amazing part is the opera 'Galileo' and that guitar solo at the end. So obviously they emphasized to that point, but if Queen took the Galileo and the guitar solo by Brian May and put it in the beginning of the song, it wouldn't have the same impact. So you've got to look at your speech like Bohemian Rhapsody, which part of it do you want to emphasize? How are you going to emphasize it? Through pitch, through influence? You might play a song, you might even stop for a pause. It's really important. And with those things, you're going to look at inflection, asking your audience questions. And one thing you should do is ask your audience questions, you shouldn't lecture. When I was working at UK [00:56:51], I found that every time I did workshops or lectures, you've got to influence your students to keep awake. And the way you do that is with questions. Ask people questions. Don't always state the facts. Say to them, "How many of you got eight hours of sleep last night? Did you get to sleep last night or did you suffer from insomnia?" But if you had to state "Many people don't get to sleep at night, they suffer from insomnia", it's completely different when you turn it into question, because you personalized it in your audience. So they want to listen. And then I forgot what other elements I was talking about. [laughs] Mainly modulation, asking questions. And pace is the most important part when it comes to speech. And really also being enthusiastic.
Interviewer: Yeah, you have to love your topic, don't you?
[00:57:40] Interviewee: We've got to have more fun as people. We're so boring all the time. And then we have this Instagram post and we go and quote this amazing quote. I say every day should be enthusiastic. Like Leo Buscaglia, who I completely loved. If you watch this video online, it's called 'Only you can make the difference'. It's on YouTube, but it was recorded many years ago and he was saying that he would love to greet people on campus. He was the type of person that would say "Hello!" And he sometimes would get strange responses from people and they would say, "Do I know you?" And he says, "No, but wouldn't it be fun?" And the person said, "No, it wouldn't". So he walked off and then he said the next day he would go along the campus and say "Hello!" And the person would say, "Do I know you?" He said, "Yes, we met yesterday". So the whole element of it is just being fun again. You never know when that person comes back into your life, that audience member. They could end up being your next boss, your next partner in work. Maybe your family ends up marrying them. But the amazing thing about people is that we need to keep connected and we need to be enthusiastic. And if you're enthusiastic in your podcasts, you will find that people will listen to you. Also start to assess people that you listen to, on podcasts, there might be a certain people you want to listen to more. If we look at political figures, like Barack Obama in the USA, he had a very soft, comforting voice. Donald Trump, he has a very loud voice. Some people like it. Some people like Barack Obama, we may never know. But when you listen to your podcast, think of the people you currently listen to and assess their voice. Not to be a copy of their voice, but look at the elements. Do they talk loud or soft? Are they enthusiastic or boring? Do they use high pitch? Do they use low pitch? Where do they speak from their resonant passages and what do they have to say? Look at the words they use. Are they simplistic words, are they academic words? Maybe they repeat words throughout. And those elements apply to your own podcast and see how you are talking, how you can inspire others around you.
Interviewer: Tamara, it's really been great talking to you and I'm really going to take on board some of this advice that you've given. Hopefully improve the podcast, yes. It's been really good.
[01:00:12] Interviewee: That's great. I'm so glad I can help you inspire. And I love to inspire people everywhere, to realize that you don't need a lot. You just need your voice to inspire. And certainly as people, we have a lot of noise around us. A lot of the time, we have audio clips or we have pictures and we have things flashing. But the most phenomenal people, if you think about it in your life, talks you've gone to, people you've listened to, they didn't have all that noise. It was just themselves. And that's the phenomenal part of about life. I think one of my most amazing performances, I have watched many people across the world, I've watched U2 live, Coldplay live, Foo Fighters live and if I look at U2, Coldplay and Foo Fighters, who happen to be my favorite bands, and I've watched them live and I've also watched Elton John and Mariah Carey. I've watched performances like Cats, all sorts of things. But within U2, Coldplay and Foo Fighters, the lead singers, Bono, Chris Martin and Dave Grohl, the most important part of the concert is when they get personal with the audience. When they sit on the edge of the stage with the guitar or they just sing with the audience. And that doesn't cost a lot. There's no noise, there's no extra lights. They normally black down the stage and people love that, because they're like, "Oh, they actually know their audience". And I think sometimes we need to take that sort of performance act and apply it with our audience. Be more personal, be open, but also be happy and enthusiastic.
Interviewer: That's great advice. Tamara, it's been really, really good having you.
[01:01:51] Interviewee: Yes, I'm so grateful and yes, if you ever need to contact me, you know where to contact me from. And I think it would be great when I cut through next year, we need to meet up. I just want to finalize my flying dates and then I'll let you know where I'll be running around. [laughs] And we can definitely collaborate or do something. And I wish you well on your journey with podcasts. I will be listening more tentatively. I haven't had time to go through it, but that would be great. And well done for inspiring people, I think you're on a great track. I see you interviewed quite a few people so far. And I'm glad I got into the beginning phase with you, because I know Clint will be up there in the big podcast world.
Interviewer: I'll never forget. So how can people get a hold of you? What's your handle at Instagram?
Interviewee: My handle on Instagram is very simple. It's @tamaranicolawentzel. That is the handle.
Interviewer: I'll put it on the screen as well.
Interviewee: Thank you. It's the same for LinkedIn as well. Because I'm quite active with LinkedIn. And yeah, you can get a hold of me, you can follow me on my journeys, I always upload wherever I'm traveling to. It could be just a cup of tea with a zebra in the background. [laughs] Wherever it is, I like to make it fun and interactive.
Interviewer: Well, thanks Tamara!
Interviewee: Thank you so much, Clint. Bye.
I want to share 3 keys, plus two other tips on how you can make it possible to start to explore ways to find your passion or answer that elusive question "What am I a supposed to be doing with my life?"
- Move more and get active, get fit, improve your thinking
- Be still, meditate, get away from technology. Start to have focus time without any agenda
- Expose yourself intentionally to uncomfortable situations. Like doing a presentation at work or getting into a cold shower
Tip 1 - write your passions and what you really like doing or what you are interested in on paper, this will force you to really think about it
Tip 2 - to make the right decision on all of your findings. Should I pursue this passion or idea? Then you will need your heart intuition. So work on creating greater coherence between your heart "brain" and the brain in your head.
James Cutting has been involved with football coaching since the age of 19. First going to the USA to coach and then working for Cambridge United for 9 years. James speaks to us about his life story and how he came to starting his own coaching business. He is now training up young kids with life skills such as discipline, good attitude and mental awareness as he does the many coaching sessions throughout the week in the East of England.
In this episode we want to help you by giving you the inspiration you might need to go out and do the things that you love doing, whether that be a hobby, or a sport, or even turning your hobby or sport into a business. Whatever it is that drives you, whatever your passion and your love, don't neglect it and let it lie dormant. If you are a good artist, then draw, paint, make music, dance. But don't let that talent go to waste.
Reward does come to those who take risks, the risk does not always have to be high. You should not put your families lives at risk to the point where you could become homeless, but if you have calculated it properly and you have the right plan in place and you are sure there is a market for what you want to get into then what are you waiting for? Just try as Coach James Cutting says
https://www.thefootballfunfactory.co.uk
Transcription:
Introduction: Hello everyone. Welcome to LifeShot. Have you ever wanted to break out, leave the job you're doing now or perhaps try something new? Maybe it's a new hobby or something. And you feel not quite confident enough to do it. I spoke to James Cutting this week and this is his journey, he used to do football coaching for Cambridge United, which he loved. And then he moved on to a job that he didn't like as much and then decided to get back into doing what he loved. And perhaps you're in a similar situation where you might be doing a job that is okay. Maybe you used to do a job that you really loved and now you're finding out the job is not the best. How do you get the confidence within to go further to say, "All right, that's it, I'm taking the next step. I'm going to break out. I'm going to get free of these things that limit me, these fears that I seem to have put on myself. Let's get out there and try something new"? So today's about James talking to us about do what you love doing. And even if it's something on the side, like what I'm doing now, I'm doing podcasting and interviews on the side, I've got my day job. And it's just about making a difference where you can, if spreading a message is your passion like mine, do this. If helping young kids is a passion, like what James does, then do that. So it's about pushing you, challenging you guys, go and do what you love doing. Welcome to this week and I hope you enjoy James Cutting, football coach from the Football Fun Factory.
Interviewer: James Cutting, welcome to the LifeShot podcast.
Interviewee: Thanks very much. Great to be here.
Interviewer: Yeah, good to have you. And for the listeners, James Cutting is a football coach here in the UK, in Cambridge. I'll let you do your own introduction actually, James, because you've got quite a history within football and coaching. Do you want to give us a background as to your time with Cambridge United?
[00:03:55] Interviewee: I'll try and keep it brief. I'll try to skip further in the different stages. I started football coaching at a really young age, stopped playing football at about 16. I realized that I wasn't going to play football to the level I wanted to. I haven't got a sub story like lots of people, a bad knee, dodgy ankle, those kinds of things. Just wasn't good enough.
Interviewer: Did you come to terms with that?
Interviewee: Yeah, came to terms with that quite early. And then it was like "What's the next best thing you can do if you can't play?" So, coach. So I turned to coaching at 16, did some volunteer coaching, knew I wanted to be a football coach or be involved in football at some level. So then I went off to America to gain some more coaching experience. I was in Chicago, in New York, worked for a company out there that trains British coaches.
Interviewer: It's quite like a coaching culture there, in America, they train a lot of coaches, don't they?
[00:04:49] Interviewee: They do and they like British coaches. You're a bit of a hero if you go over there. They think we're really good for some reason. You go over there and you coach and work for a company, they send out loads of British coaches. You stay with host families and do coaching camps throughout the summer.
Interviewer: And that was in your younger years?
Interviewee: Yeah, so I was 19 and did that only for about six months. It's was a temporary position really, but gave me opportunity to coach every day. To then gain loads of experience, came back, and then began work at Cambridge United Football Club. So, I tried to force my foot in the door a little bit.
Interviewer: What, did you just knock on the door and say "Hey guys, is there a new job?"
Interviewee: Well, while I was in America, I sent a few emails, contacted all the local professional clubs. I was living in Kingsland in Norfolk at the time. Contacted Cambridge, Norwich, Peterborough, I think they all got back to me actually. And had the meeting with Cambridge and then didn't go to the other meetings because I was sold on the place and the people at the time. They basically said "If you want...", so, I had no commitments. I came back, I was 19, I was living at home, no real commitments. And it was just like "Throw yourself into it". So there were some paid coaching hours. But a lot of it was just like "Go and volunteer your services, go and get involved as you can". And I was in a brilliant position to do that.
Interviewer: Were you were living with your parents at home or did you have to move away from home?
[00:06:11] Interviewee: No, I was traveling from Kingsland to Cambridge every single day up and down the 810, which is the worst road in the world.
Interviewer: Oh, you didn't take the train?
Interviewee: No, because I needed equipment in my car and all those kinds of things. In fact, the first ever coaching session I got was in Baldock, in Hertfordshire. So it was an hour and 40 minutes from my house. I got paid about 15 quid for the hour and probably spent 40 quid to get there and back.
Interviewer: The sacrifices we take, right?
Interviewee: Exactly. I wasn't doing it for money, I wanted to do it for the experience and for the opportunities.
Interviewer: Not everyone's privileged enough to be able to just to do that. Because actually, today's episode, we're going to call it 'Do what you love doing'. And it's not necessarily that we want to put guilt on people to say, "Hey, why aren't you doing what you love doing as a job?" But it's doing what you love doing, even if it's not your job. You're doing something else outside of the things you love doing.
Interviewee: Absolutely.
Interviewer: So even if you were working at some other normal job, you did football just because you love it. I think this is the message we want to get across today, just do what you love doing. If doing what you love doing pushes you outside of your comfort zone to try a different job, then so be it. I think you're going to give us a message today about how you did that, how you started your own business and that journey from there. Before we get onto that though, I've noticed and I've seen you coach, I don't know if you know it or not, but you've got some very good skills with young people.
Interviewee: Thank you.
Interviewer: And my wife's a teacher and so she can pick these things up and say "James is a really good coach and he controls the kids well". So did you learn this by osmosis, through the years or was it something that was particular in your training in there?
[00:07:55] Interviewee: Both, really. I think as a football coach, really the root to become qualified is to go on FA courses. So you do your FA level one, FA level two. I did my FA level three, which is the UEFA for B-coaching license, which basically qualifies you to coach a youth level for any club in the country basically. So at Cambridge, I had to work within the academy, but then running a number of different programs as well there. But the qualifications are great, being around other people and FA mentors and all that kind of stuff. That's all great. But actually, what really matters is on the ground experience, throwing yourself into it, watching other people, putting hours in where you go and just watch someone else coach, ask them questions, "Why did you do it like that? Why didn't you think about doing it this way?"
Interviewer: Did you analyse yourself as well afterwards?
[00:08:44] Interviewee: Oh, massively. Massively. And that is part of the FA qualifications as well. They say you have to assess all of your coaches and be assessed. So all of your coaching sessions and be assessed as well. But really just doing that every single day, every session that you deliver, you question everything that you do. And you just learn from success and failures. You try something and it just doesn't work and then that's your best coaching session because the next time you'll do something differently and you think, "Right, I'm not going to do that again" and you find a way to make it successful, it might be a small tweak that you make.
Interviewer: If you think about professional sports, you think about golfers, for example. The difference between them is so small, in that who's going to win the game. Because they're all professionals, they all play very well. And in coaching, I think it might be similar, what differentiates you from being one of the top coaches. Because they are teaching you all these things, right? Like how do you assess yourself and be assessed? How do you think you're going to take yourself to that next level, if you want to get there?
[00:09:57] Interviewee: Yeah, it depends what the next level is. Most football coaches aspire to work in an academy, probably with a younger age group, gain the experience, then work with an older age group, maybe with a youth team, maybe work with a first team. That's never really been my aspiration. I don't particularly - sounds like a funny thing to say - I don't particularly like adult senior football. I don't particularly like the culture and environment that surrounds it. Obviously, there are some brilliant cultures, I'm sure there are some football teams that do things brilliantly well. But that's never really been my progress route. That's not really what I'm interested in. So my passion has always been around participation, enjoyment. And that leads on to obviously the organization that I've created.
Interviewer: Because it's Football Fun...
Interviewee: Football Fun Factory, yeah. Three F's. Football Fun Factory. So we explain that to kids who say, "Okay, what's football?" Kick a ball on the go. "What's fun?" Run around with a smile on your face. "What's a factory?" It makes things. So Football Fun Factory makes football fun. That's the idea. That's the sort of ethos of the organization.
Interviewer: Speak about your aspirations for you, particularly for Football Fun Factory.
[00:11:09] Interviewee: I'll give a brief summary of where I have got to, and then I can talk about where it's going and where it's heading now. It's a really good time to ask that question, because there are a few things bubbling away. So, where I've got to, often working full time on this for 12 months, that's it.
Interviewer: Just dedicated to it, fully focused.
Interviewee: Yeah. So I left the job, last June, started running my own business full time before that. I had a year, but only really six months out of the year where I have taken it seriously, building up the business, walls and employment. And in that year, what we've managed to do, is start a number of different football programs for children aged two years old, all the way through to 12 years old, boys and girls, all abilities. A number of different programs, evening coaching sessions, Saturday morning coaching sessions, school holiday courses, all of those things outside of school hours. So nothing during the day.
Interviewer: You're focused on children.
[00:12:11] Interviewee: Yeah, so we can't do anything during the day unless we go into schools. And that's not an avenue we want to pursue. So, within that, it's been building up those programs. I live in Red Lodge, in Newmarket, we've got a whole host of programs that we run there. But we've also built up other communities, Football Fun Factory communities - as I like to call them - in St Ives, Cambourne, Waterbeach, all of these areas are surrounding Cambridge, basically, without being in Cambridge itself, actually. So the idea is that I run my area, my Football Fun Factory community. I've created a bit of a blueprint and business model for that. And then the idea is that we'll replicate that. So we're at the moment creating a franchise model in that we'll have other head coaches, I sort of turned myself the head coach for the Football Fun Factory community of the Suffolk area, really. And we want to create that working from Cambridgeshire outwards. So Cambridgeshire, Suffolk, Norfolk, Hertfordshire, Essex, all of those areas. Eventually, we could have one of those in all counties of the country. So that's the aim. And the reason for that aim is simple, as I know the benefits that the programs that I deliver bring to a few hundred children. But actually, if we could do that for hundreds of thousands of children, then that's a game changer. So that's what we're looking to do.
Interviewer: What are the benefits and why?
[00:13:53] Interviewee: Football's an interesting game, because you've got football participation for children and then you've got football participation for the children's parents. [laughs] And it's a really interesting one, we could easily do a podcast on parenting and football, which would be really interesting. Less than half a percent of children that participate in football then go on to become a professional footballer. Less than half a percent.
Interviewer: Especially in this country, because it gets taken over by the other internationals.
[00:14:42] Interviewee: Yeah, that's it. And there's challenges around that. And again, that's another topic of conversation. So, loads of kids have the aspiration to play football and they see their idols on TV and they watch Tottenham play or whoever, and they're inspired by that. And that's great. That's brilliant. And they aspire to become a professional footballer, perhaps. But the opportunity is actually minuscule. It's tiny. Even the most talented might not necessarily make it. So my thought is that every single one of those children can have fun. Every single one of those children can develop social skills. Every one of those children can enjoy themselves, make their parents proud, learn how to become part of a team, how to be respectful to others and to their coaches. So it's life skills. It's just through football. You could almost strip away the fact that it's football. Football is almost for us the vehicle of child development, rather than football development. And the reason it's football is because there's such a huge passion for it. So it's a combination. It's almost like child development through football and there's all of those life benefits and life skills that it brings.
Interviewer: My son goes to one of your classes and I'm just thinking of an obvious development, I can see he's improving in the game itself. But I suppose it's hard to measure when they're that young. Is it more measurable as they get older?
[00:16:20] Interviewee: So what's really interesting is, I've been involved in football academies in England, started in the under nine age groups. That's eight-year-old children playing football, that play for a local professional club. The worst player in the under nines team, by the time they're 18 - old enough to sign a professional contract - could be the best player. They might have had a really early growth spurt. They might hit 12 and be tall and gangling and uncoordinated, but they might end up being the best players as they grow into their body when they're 16, 18. 20 maybe, even. And there's players that released by professional clubs, dropped down the leagues, play non-league football and rise back up at 25 years old.
Interviewer: There's no set way that it happens.
[00:17:07] Interviewee: No, and it's so immeasurable. It's a skill to know talent levels and spot progress. I would say the best way of measuring a child's successful development within football would actually be their progress rate, rather than their level of talent. So if for example, they could hardly kick a ball six months ago, but now they've got good levels of technique, they might still be - horrible term - the worst player within the group of children.
Interviewer: But still, he's or she's a lot better than what they were.
Interviewee: But because of the progress right there that's going on, they might end up being the best player in 10 years’ time. And that's the thing, it's such a long game. If you do want to become professional footballer, and if that's the outcome, it's a really long game. It's a long journey from six years old to 20-something years old.
Interviewer: So behavioural changes, I'm sure there must be many topics and discussions about this, how it actually helps kids who might be struggling in school. Maybe they're not so good at academics, and then they find some kind of meaning or purpose in football and what it does for their person, for themselves.
[00:18:22] Interviewee: I think it's the structure that it brings. Your son comes along on a Saturday morning, and the session that he is within is three, four-year-old children. And at the start of the session, they have a free play, 10 minutes at the start, where they come in, enjoy themselves, kick a few balls around. That's to settle them into the environment. At that point you'll notice that we always bring them in and sit them down. That's not because we want to show that we are the coaches, we are in charge, we're the boss, you've got to listen to us and all that kind of thing. We do that every single week religiously, because those children then get used to structure. They get used to the fact that they have to show respect and they have to listen. And if another child is talking and answering a question, they need their eyes on that child because they might have something valuable to say. So it's those kinds of social skills, life skills that come out of it and those kinds of benefits that it brings with it.
Interviewer: That's good. James, I looked at a little bit of history of your past and you worked with Cambridge United Football and you were into youth development. And from what I gather, you really enjoyed that piece. And then you've got a different job within the same company and you didn't really enjoy that, because it was taking you away from what you loved, right?
Interviewee: Yeah.
Interviewer: So tell us about that little journey between changing jobs and then saying, "Hey, screw this".
[00:19:43] Interviewee: Okay. So, the process for me was from the job that I loved, Cambridge United, to where I am today, literally went in probably four steps when the job that I love and got loads of passion for and get up for every day and am really motivated for, a promotion into a senior role that was glitzy, glamorous...
Interviewer: And you thought it was good at the time, right?
Interviewee: Yeah. And was sold to me as, "Wow. What an amazing thing to do". And it was, it was. It was a brilliant thing to do, for someone that's got a passion to then have a job in management and business and all those kinds of things.
Interviewer: But that taught you something then, didn't it?
Interviewee: Oh, massively, don't get me wrong. I never have any regrets in anything that I do in life, because it will have taken me on a journey that made me realize that's actually who I am and what's important to me and what my passions are. So I took that job, did that for a year and a bit and worked across business development across the whole football club, hospitality, retail, ticketing, loads of different things, loads of different sectors and markets that I have not been involved in and learned a lot of lessons along the way. Probably realized that actually I couldn't have as big an impact in those areas as I could within what I could have in my area, which is giving amazing football experiences to kids. So did that, realized that actually I probably made a career defining mistake in taking that job. Because I then realized that I had lost my passion.
Interviewer: How soon did you realize that?
[00:21:17] Interviewee: Pretty soon. And then probably spent nine months, twelve months to come to terms with it.
Interviewer: Thinking "What should I do?”, struggling with yourself?
Interviewee: Yeah, a little bit. From that point then, I left. I've been there nine and a half years, so I'd literally had one organization that I've worked for, apart from six months in America.
Interviewer: You were part of the furniture there, weren't you?
Interviewee: Yeah, absolutely. I'd literally grown in the football club, from a non-league club to getting promoted, to play Manchester United in the FA cup, I have had quite a really good period of history for the club. When I went on a journey of growth at the same time the football club did, and that was really good for me, took a job completely outside of football. And actually, what I was seeking at that time was the next stage, which was to be somewhere different and to be around a different organization, different structure. That taught me so many things because football is incredibly fast paced, 60, 70 hours a week, it borders on ridiculous on your lifestyle.
Interviewer: But in all aspects of the club, no matter which part of the club you're working for, it's pretty much.
[00:22:30] Interviewee: It's nuts, I can't even begin to explain what the football industry is like. This is nuts, a professional football club. Brilliant and the best learning curve I could ever have hoped for. But that's all I knew, from age 19 to 29, that's all I knew. So to take a step outside of that, to work for an [00:22:48] organization, I actually worked for the National Trust. A charity that looks after special places across the United Kingdom protects the heritage of the country. I was a consultant for them. And the reason why, probably my CV was how I got that job, I have no idea.
Interviewer: Yeah, because it's football National Trust.
Interviewee: Yeah, random, seemingly random. But the reason why they gave me that job was because they could see that I have passion for a cause. So I could speak passionately about the cause that I had within football and I could transfer that across to the passion of the cause of protecting the country's heritage. So, I worked for them, was there for a year, realized that I missed football and I missed giving opportunities to kids and create a big impact.
Interviewer: So you moved away almost totally from working with kids, because at National Trust, we work with families, but you're probably speaking to adults most of the time.
[00:23:44] Interviewee: Yeah, absolutely. And it's an internal job. So I was only dealing with people within, I was an internal consultant. So people within the company. So I then had a couple of years at Cambridge, not coaching, another year in that job, not coaching. And then I started a one-hour coaching session on a Friday night at Red Lodge Sports Pavilion.
Interviewer: Where you just thought, "I'm gonna get back into this"?
Interviewee: I thought "Do you know what? I live in a village. It's got an AstroTurf. I'm a qualified football coach".
Interviewer: [laughs] What am I doing?
Interviewee: "Let's put on a session". So I put on a session, and then that turned into the Football Fun Factory.
Interviewer: Oh, we've got to hear more about that. So do what you love doing. This is what we're talking about today. Let's go back to that. So you're in this job, but again, we're not telling everyone, "Listen, quit your job and do what you love doing". It's not easy, some people, they might want to go parachuting. And how you gonna make a living from that, right?
Interviewee: Absolutely. You can.
Interviewer: You probably could, I think people do need to try to chase. It doesn't have to happen tomorrow. It doesn't have to happen next year. For me, I've always been into media and then I stopped doing media. And now I want to get back into it. And that's why I'm doing this. And you know, I've got aspirations of where I wanted to go, but I just got to enjoy every moment, you know?
Interviewee: Absolutely.
Interviewer: We're enjoying this moment right now, enjoying the moment when it goes out and just not thinking about the "Oh, when it gets there, then I want to be happy" type of thing. So for you and your coaching, how did you follow that path? I want to get into your head about the decision you made, about saying, "Hey, this is it now, I want to do the Football Fun Factory".
[00:25:32] Interviewee: Well, there's an awful lot of good fortune that sat beside that. So the journey that went up from there is start one hour coaching session, in a village with 2000 people in it. I put on the session and it was full.
Interviewer: Really? Like what, 10, 15 kids?
Interviewee: There were 15 kids. So one hour coaching session, it was full. It was actually a session. I just thought, "You know what, let's just open the age range five to twelve and we will foster a coaching session. We had a five-year-old girl who'd never played football before, who really struggled, to be honest. And we had a 12-year-old boy who was really talented. Somehow we made it work and obviously that's the skill of coaching then, how can you create a session where you can do something where each individual can gain something from it? So I put on that session, that worked. I'm putting another hour in place, that became full.
Interviewer: How did you market it?
[00:26:34] Interviewee: Facebook groups.
Interviewer: You said "Hey, I am putting a thing on"?
Interviewee: Yeah.
Interviewer: The village groups are pretty powerful, aren't they? Because people are always looking at those village groups.
Interviewee: And if people see something that they're not interested in, they'll tell someone that will be interested in it and they'll tag and call people and all those kinds of things. So, I started that. We now have 150 children in Red Lodge alone that train and participate with the Football Fun Factory.
Interviewer: So that's a tenfold increase.
Interviewee: Yeah. So that's happening over the course of a year and obviously, there's a finite number of children, that's not going to keep growing. I'm not going to have a thousand, because there's not that many people. [laughs] Although that is developing, every time they build more houses, I'm like, "Yeah, great". So, that's what happened there. I was then really, really fortunate that I was in a job where I had a good relationship with my boss and good relationships with the people in the organization.
Interviewer: Doing the National Trust work?
[00:27:36] Interviewee: Yeah, at the National Trust. So they offered unbelievable personal development opportunities, it blew me away. There are training courses, CPD programs, all sorts of things, all the time. I was like, "Wow, I've got more training next week. Brilliant". And I've never been in that environment. I'd gone from a job where I had none of that in 10 years to that thrown at me every couple of weeks.
Interviewer: So during your Cambridge United football, you had to develop yourself?
Interviewee: Yeah, it was too fast paced to even stop and think about your own development, because you're thinking about the development of the company. So yeah, it was too fast paced, and to be fair, the club had been on such an upward trajectory itself that there was no time to stop and think. It was like a start-up business, which was handy.
Interviewer: I was going to ask you about that, but I suppose we've gone off topic.
Interviewee: We could easily, yeah. [laughs]
Interviewer: Okay, so the National Trust gave you this personal development thing, which is awesome. And then that helps you.
[00:28:39] Interviewee: So National Trust gave me loads of opportunities to develop myself. I was also in a job where I was massively out of my comfort zone because I was in an industry and organisation that I knew nothing about. It's the most complex organization in the world, I think. It's just nuts. It was brilliant for my development. Just missed that football fix and that child development fix that I needed. I could have easily stayed there and had a 10-year career there, easily. And been very happy doing that. But the bit of good fortune I was talking about was that I had an honest and open conversation with them and they said, "Well, if that's your passion, we want to keep you here as long as we can, but we want to support you and your aspirations". So they allowed me to set some stuff up outside of my working hours. They even tailored my working hours slightly so that I could then get to the sessions on time. They allowed me to book holiday to run school holiday courses. And then it built itself up to a point where we were just keeping constant dialogue and they just said, "Okay, we want to keep you for as long as possible, would it help if you went part time?" And obviously, when you're talking about someone having a passion and then doing that for a living, the biggest jump from there to there is that I've got to pay myself. I need a salary, I have to pay my mortgage. I was in the fortunate position where I was building up a business at the same time as I then became part time in another, in my job. So basically, they helped me transition from full time employment into full time running our company.
Interviewer: So as you're saying this, I'm thinking there might be a chance for people who are listening to do something similar.
Interviewee: Absolutely.
Interviewer: Because I think most of my listeners would probably either have a job or be self-employed. So yeah, that's a fortunate position that you were in and it all worked out. I'm just thinking some people could do that. If you follow your passions and even if it's just a hobby and you want to turn it into a business, then just transition slowly, you think?
[00:30:46] Interviewee: I wouldn't necessarily say slowly, but certainly transition at the rate which you need to. So that could be quite a quick transition. It might take five years to do it. The biggest thing I would say is, it then comes down to hard work. Because I was doing a full-time job.
Interviewer: But a sacrifice somewhere. A social sacrifice?
Interviewee: Yeah, absolutely. Because I was doing my 40 hours a week, which felt like a part time job to me, having been at Cambridge for ten years. I was like, "Okay, I've got all this spare time". So in the evenings and weekends I was then setting up my sessions and running my programs and taking holiday, but then working it, running my business.
Interviewer: Were you married at this time?
Interviewee: Yeah!
Interviewer: Your wife was like "When am I going to see him?"
Interviewee: So, there's two big things here, right? Two things. People think, "I'd love to be able to follow my dream and just start up that business". And they think they have to jump from full time employment to running a business. And they can't make that jump because how can I make enough money to pay my mortgage next month? When I went on that journey from employed to self-employed, effectively, I did that at a time where I had not long ago bought a house for the first time, just got married and spent a lot of money for the wedding. And we were about to have a baby at the time. So we've got a six month old now. So if you can do it in those circumstances, then it's possible to do and you don't have to jump from A to B. You just have to put the graft in and you just have to work really, really hard and do things in your own time.
Interviewer: People need to know that what they're going to do, they're not going to give up on. So, for example, you might have an idea to do something that you love doing, but you think, "Well, I love doing a lot of different things. Which one should I choose?" But for you, fortunately, football coaching was your thing, right? So I think people just need to assess in their minds, "What do I really love doing? What could I turn into a business?" And then just go with that. And stay dedicated to that path. Once you decided, maybe stick on that? Do you think? Because you can't just throw yourself everywhere, can you?
[00:33:05] Interviewee: No, no, no. And I think I'm unfortunate that I've had one real passion. And sometimes people, they're passionate about a number of different things and think they would like to run a business in, "Oh, I could run a business in this, this and this". I'm fortunate I've had one burning passion and that's me. That's just me. That's what I wanted to do. I think that the first question you have to ask yourself is, is it a viable business? I knew that it was, because I'd pretty much already done what I do now in a job for a number of years.
Interviewer: There's definitely a market for it. There are people wanting football training. Their parents want to send their kids.
Interviewee: If you take each program, school holiday courses, to some - we don't really market it as this and we don't really want it to be this - but to some it's childcare in the school holidays. I hate to think that, but it is.
Interviewer: Do you do an all-day-course?
Interviewee: Yeah, 9:00 until 3:30 and it's like a school day and effectively for some working parents that makes it a bit of a God-send, it's a solution. Luckily the children come along and have a great time and they want to come back. So even better for the parents, but it's more than just a childcare service. And we don't really like to think of it as that, but to some it is. That's never going away. In fact, there's going to be more demand for that than ever before, because people are busier and busier in their lives. Football is just the national game. People love it and people have got a real passion for it. And kids love playing football. When people inquire about the [00:34:41] program that we run on the Saturday morning, the first thing they say is, "Hey, she loves kicking a ball around in the garden", therefore they want to bring them to the session, because they just find that that's their child's passion at that time. And it's up to us to then just harness that passion. So the markets that we operate in, football coaching and an aspect of childcare, are not going anywhere. There's nothing that's going to happen, there's no recession. There's no Brexit. It will be here in 50 years, 100 years, 200 years’ time. And if anything, I think that every aspect of business is becoming more experienced-led, in my view. So what do people want to do for an evening out with their friends? Are they wanting to go to escape rooms, are they wanting to have an experience rather than going out for dinner? Maybe. And people are going very more towards experiences than they are just the norm. And I think that the way that we do our sessions, it leads itself more to the experience market, because it's football with a twist. It's not just a football coaching session. It's a session in an inflatable pitch with a giant football and inflatable goal and a football dartboard and all of these kinds of things that nobody else really does. And that's the USP of the organization. So all of those things are never going away. So I knew it was a viable business. So because I'd had that absolute confidence, my mind was made up that I can do this. Which is a fortunate position to be in.
Interviewer: You spoke about, this is a good time for people to take the plans, really. I don't want to go along the lines saying everyone should start their own business, but even if it's just a side business, and you're happy to do your other job, the tech that's available to us nowadays is just so good. Although it does take a bit of money to start up, because I'm building my own website now, because I've got big plans for it, it's costing a bit more money. But tell us about these little tech tips that you can give entrepreneurs starting. Because you've just started a year ago.
[00:37:07] Interviewee: The biggest thing I would say is that you can run a business from a smartphone. Depending on the business, you don't necessarily need a laptop. And that sounds like a crazy thing to say. How can you run a business without a computer? But I do a fair amount of my work on my phone. And that's the way that entrepreneur-ism is going. You can capture, edit and upload your social media content from your phone. You can answer your emails from your phone, you can use free apps, you can capture five videos throughout the day, put them into an app and it creates a video for you. We use loads and loads of free apps or we use apps that we pay 99p a month for, and they do brilliant, brilliant things. My advice would be just to do your research, download loads of apps and try them all out and see which ones work best for you. I've got a photo editing app, where we put text over photos. iPhones now capture brilliant content, in terms of the quality, photos and videos. You can have blurred backgrounds and all sorts on the new iPhone and stuff like that. There's a fantastic app, where we literally select the photos and videos from the day, when we have a school holiday course, we capture loads of content throughout the day on a phone, we put it into an app and it makes a one-minute video that looks like it's professionally made.
Interviewer: There's AI, just right there, in operation.
Interviewee: Absolutely brilliant. So my advice would be, obviously I talked about I started a business at a time where there are so many reasons not to and that's the biggest thing about entrepreneurism as well, there's so many reasons we just go, "But I can't because...", and for me it was that I just got married, just bought a house, about to have a baby, I can't do it. It's crazy. What if I can't pay the mortgage next month, what am I going to do? So if someone's 19 years old, if they were me, just before I went to America, living at home and no commitments, no mortgage, the phone bill might be the only thing that you have to pay or whatever it might be. Then my advice would be just do it. Just do it. Just try.
Interviewer: I wonder if it's the confidence in being able to say, "Well, I might not be the best coach". I suppose confidence comes over time, but you may find some younger people who are more confident than others. Because for like me, if I want to become the expert in my field and I'm thinking of what field I am an expert in, you know? I know what I'm good at. I'm good at fitness, I'm good at strength training. I know a lot about nutrition and I know about meditation and all those kinds of things. I'm thinking, "Well, am I really a professional in this field?" And I suppose it's just about finding that confidence within yourself as a young person saying, "You know what, I can do this". Maybe they lack mentors, maybe they lack people like yourself, who would be able to say, "Hey, you can do this".
[00:40:29] Interviewee: And to be honest with you, that goes on at different levels. I'm someone sitting here in my first year of business. So absolutely, if there was a young aspiring entrepreneur, I could sit down with them having a chat and sort of mentor them. But also, that's something that I've identified for me that I need to find a mentor and I need to find a coach and people did develop me. I think that's something that people are opening their eyes to a lot more now. Those people are really, really valuable, because the biggest thing about doing what I do now, the most exciting thing at the moment, is that when we begin to franchise and expand across the country, I'll be doing that with a business partner. And I'm really, really looking forward to doing that because it will be the first time where I can actually collaborate with someone other than my head. [laughs]
Interviewer: Have you found someone like a venture capitalist or something?
Interviewee: Not even that. It's just someone that basically I've known really well for a while. They're going to come on board, they're going to help me run the whole thing. And they're better at some stuff that I do well than I am. And that's what it's all about, surrounding yourself with really good people. And when people talk about a coach or a mentor, it doesn't necessarily have to be someone you pay loads of money to be able to do that for you. It could just be someone that you respect or someone that your dad works with that's got experience in doing what you do or starting their own business or something like that.
Interviewer: So I think, one thing I've learned is that if you want to find a mentor, look for somebody and serve them and ask what you can do for them. So instead of, "Hey, I'm looking for a mentor, can you help me?" Let's say I'm a young 19-year-old and here's James, "James, how can I help you? Can I help you coach?" So for young people listening, or people who are looking for a coach, it's go and serve, go and help those people that you aspire to.
[00:42:31] Interviewee: Yeah. And that's all experience, isn't it? It's not me talking about when I first began at Cambridge United, a young 19-year-old coach. I went and watched as many coaching sessions as I could, because all the coaches, they were better than I was. So what I had to do was go and watch them. So on that trip to Baldock, that I was talking about, that cost me more money to do than actually earn. On the way home, I'd then take a detour and stop and watch the academy train for three hours and then get home. So my nine hours working day, it cost me money, it was actually my personal development. It was my opportunity to go and see, you wait for qualified coaches at work and that's what I needed at that time. It's a compliment if someone said to you now, "I know you've got a podcast lined up with James later on in the week, I'd love to sit in and watch it and just see how it works".
Interviewer: Yeah, that would be a compliment.
Interviewee: Yeah, it'd be a compliment to you and I'm sure you'd say to someone, "Absolutely. Why not?"
Interviewer: Yeah sure, push the buttons on the camera.
Interviewee: Yeah, absolutely [laughs]
Interviewer: If you can help us out, that'd be great.
[00:43:40] Interviewee: So all those kinds of things. If someone is thinking about, "I'd love to run a business. I know what my passion is, that's what I want to do, but I don't think I'm ready yet and I need to get an experience". Just ask people. Ask people, because people will take it as a compliment. If someone said to me, "I'd love an hour of your time once a month to talk about what you've done in the last 12 months, because I'm just about to go on that journey myself", I'd give him an hour. Absolutely. As long as they were respectful in the way that they position that.
Interviewer: Because you want to give back, don't you?
Interviewee: Exactly, yeah. Absolutely. Because I wish someone would've done that for me.
Interviewer: Yeah, exactly. That's true. Because you're like, "I'll just do it for this guy". So James, just to end off today, thanks for being with us. Before you go, I just want to know, what does your day look like? Do you have a routine in the morning that you do or maybe it's not a routine, but how do you invest in yourself personally, at this point? Besides football and business? Do you invest in yourself in other ways?
[00:44:41] Interviewee: Yeah. One of the most important things out there is get up and go to the gym. And you might say, "What's that got to do with running a business?" It gets you into a mindset, it gives you head-space. So I drive to the gym, it takes me 10 minutes to get there. I've got that time in the car. I'm in the gym for 45 minutes, an hour. It gives me time to think. And actually, it's the one place where you can get the results and rewards as an outcome of your work, guaranteed.
Interviewer: You can see the physical rewards.
Interviewee: Yeah, so you go to the gym, you work hard, you get fitter. It's a really simple process. You can't really break them at all. Now in business it's been more difficult, in that you work really hard and you might not get results. But in the gym, you can. So I find that a really good way to get into a positive mindset for the day. I don't do that every day. I wish I had time to do that every day, but at least three times a week, so I'll go and do that. I'm fortunate that I work from home. I think that's a nice environment to be in, where you feel more relaxed. It's not so formal. I don't have to get up and have to iron a shirt to put on. I can get up at 7:00 o'clock and I can be working at 7:02.
Interviewer: You don't have to drive anywhere, you just walk to the office.
[00:46:06] Interviewee: Down the stairs, yeah. So investing in myself is something I probably need to do more of and you need to find time to do that. Reading books I think it's really important. Again for me, something I'd love more time to do.
Interviewer: And books on different things, not just business books. Books on spirituality, whatever it is.
Interviewee: Absolutely, yeah. Books about passion and what your goals might be and all those kinds of things. So I think that everything you do in life can apply to business, actually. I think it's the one thing, or spending time with your family. So I give myself a Thursday off every single week. What does that do for me? The reason why I want to be successful in business now for me, I'm at a new stage in my life, I've got a six-month-old, a wife that I married a couple of years ago. And for me, I'm doing it for them. That's my inspiration. On a Thursday we go to swimming lessons, take my daughter to swimming lessons and it just reminds me all the time, when it's getting really hard on a Wednesday night and I'm on that AstroTurf and it's freezing cold and it's raining, I know why I'm doing this.
Interviewer: That's so cool and while you were saying that, I'm just thinking there's always a question why. Simon Sinek said it, "Why, why, why?" And the 'why' you've answered earlier, you said you want to help kids have fun playing football and it's for their development. And at the same time, the 'why' is also for you personally, for your family, spending more time together. So there's more than just one 'why', isn't it?
[00:47:41] Interviewee: Absolutely, yeah. There's five according to Simon Sinek.
Interviewer: Oh, five, is it?
Interviewee: The five why's. He said five why's and he goes into all that. I think it was him, it might be someone else. But yeah, it's the why, but then also having the discipline of when it gets tough, when things don't go as well as they could. One thing you need is resilience. And I think that's so important, because when you are, paint the worst possible picture. So I'm running a football coaching business and football is my passion, but we haven't got the numbers on the courses that I needed to get to run my business effectively. I'm standing there on an AstroTurf, the kids don't want to listen tonight. They're not interested. It's freezing cold, it's raining. And at the end of the session, I've got to pack all of this stuff away by myself. Put all the goals away, get into my van and drive home. Doesn't sound as glamorous, does it? I've sat here with you for half an hour to talk about what sounds like a really glamorous, brilliant way of life. And it isn't. It will be for me, but none of that is possible without resilience and hard work.
Interviewer: You have to go through the slur sometimes.
[00:48:48] Interviewee: Yeah, absolutely. And you go through that slur literally every single day. And there are so many ways where you could go. Somebody offered me a job, "Just take that nine to five and get holidays and whatever else". But if you've got real passion for it, I think you'll stick at it. And that's the key.
Interviewer: Chris Ducker says that being an entrepreneur can be a lonely business.
Interviewee: Oh, so lonely. And as I said earlier, when I've got someone on board to come and work with me on it, I can't wait. Someone I can have a conversation with. It's very lonely, very, very lonely. And again, that takes resilience to say...
Interviewer: It's not always going to be like that.
Interviewee: Yeah. You'll get there in the end.
Interviewer: Yeah. James Cutting, it's been great having you.
Interviewee: Pleasure!
Interviewer: Football Fun Factory, I wish you all the best in the future.
Interviewee: Thank you very much.
Interviewer: Thanks for being on the show.
Interviewee: Cheers, pleasure.
Massimo is a martial arts expert who has been training in kickboxing and other disciplines since the late 1970's. He started a blog about martial arts called http://www.martialwhat.com as he is so passionate about this type of physical and mental exercise he wants the world to know about it and engage.
Martial arts, in particular, is very good for the body and the mind. Your wellness is greatly increased when you engage in any martial arts discipline. In this episode, we tried to delve deep into the psychology of this type of training and what it does for the mind.
Resilience is something that can help you cope in times of trouble. Whether it be resilience against an attack on your body, like a virus, a disease or a big punch to the face! And then there is emotional and mental resilience, who wouldn't want to be mentally tougher and yet at the same time more loving!?
If you live in the Cambridge area then check out http://www.salus-wellness.com to find many types of healing and physio or wellness treatments with Massimo's 79 practitioners
If you are a martial arts fighter or contact sports person you need great mouthguards. Invest in top quality mouth guards here
This site contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
transformyourself #lifeshot #resilience
Dr. Carmen James gave up her job as a General Practitioner (GP) as she could no longer work within the system that was governed by the big pharma's and where most people that came to see her where sufferers of chronic diseases which ultimately must be cured not through "cover the symptoms" type medicines but by sound advice that gets to the root cause of the disease.
This cuts to the very heart of people though as telling them that their eating and other lifestyle habits need to drastically change to cure their disease is not something they want to hear, and what is worse is that change is not quick and people want a quick fix for their sleeping disorders or other ailments. But a more holistic and natural approach would be for people to do the hard work in transforming their lives by forming better thought habits, better eating habits and better activity habits.
Dr. James also spoke about morning routines such as journaling, meditating and yoga and her enlightenment on a trip to the Far East
loveyourself #lifeshotpodcast #alternativemedicine
Transcription:
Interviewer: Carmen O. James, I've seen your website, carmenojames.com. So you have to tell us what that middle name is in a minute. Welcome to the LifeShot podcast. How are you doing?
Interviewee: I'm very well thank you. And thank you so much for inviting me. It's awesome to be here.
Interviewer: It's convenient because you're in the country. And normally, you live in?
Interviewee: Durbin, South Africa.
Interviewer: Durbin, South Africa and you're here in England. What's your reason for the visit?
Interviewee: Okay, so Carvin’s friends are getting married, which is the primary reason why we came. But then I was also offered a little opportunity to do a little talk at one of the churches. A family friend of ours invited me as well, so I got to do that while I'm here and Carvin also did a show. So we've been really busy.
Interviewer: It was really awesome for me to find out that you actually like the same things that I like. I was like "Awesome!" I want to ask you just straight off the bat, what is the main message of the Carmen James brand?
Interviewee: Good question. I've started this, trying to formulate a personal brand around the things that I value and one of the things I think that encapsulates everything that I stand for. And one of the things that I'm really passionate about is self-love. And so, for me, everything that I want to do through the brand is to help people learn to love themselves. I really, truly believe that once we can get that done and once everybody's on board with that, will be better people for it, will be in relationships, will rock up in relationships even better as better human beings. And I think the way we do everything, going on from there, is going to be way better. I think that if you have a good relationship with yourself, you have good relationship with other people and the world basically is built on relationships.
Interviewer: Where's that borderline where it goes into narcissism? Because some people say, "Oh, that might be a little bit selfish". If I look after myself a lot, I may neglect my family. How do you talk to people about that?
[00:02:19] Interviewee: So often, this is the misconception about self-love, that it's very selfish and that it's very inward pointing and inward focused, kind of navel gazing, I guess. But the way I see it - and I think the way we need to be seeing it - is first and foremost, looking at what our opinion or our idea of love is in the first place. And I think the problem is that we have a very selfish opinion of love. We love people because of what we can get out of them. I love you because you give me things or you make me feel happy and comfortable and it's kind of like this relationship where you're getting something out of the relationship all the time. As opposed to it being an unconditional love, where it's open and it's not tied down to what I can get out of it. It's an expression of who you are. And so, narcissism is very different to self-love, because narcissistic people actually have very low self-love. They actually have low self-esteem and they need other people to validate and improve their opinion of themselves.
Interviewer: And they might put others down.
Interviewee: In the process, exactly. So they actually build themselves on the downfall of other people. They manipulate, they put people down. They do all kinds of things that really disadvantage other people as opposed to being self-loving, which is, I believe, a way of taking care of yourself. And I truly believe that. It's like when you go in a plane, right? And they say, "Oh, if we lose cabin pressure, put your oxygen mask on before you help other people", I truly believe if you take care of yourself and if you are in a good relationship with yourself, and if you know and accept and love yourself, then the way you show up in your relationships and the way you interact with other people and from the way you do your job to the way you raise your children, for example, I think that that spills over from a place of genuinely, unconditionally loving yourself.
Interviewer: I read on your website that you're into integrative medicine. And I've never heard that term before, what is that?
[00:04:33] Interviewee: I've been practicing general regular medicine for almost 11 years now, I think. And I became incredibly disillusioned with the model. I really, truly felt that when it comes to chronic disease, we weren't doing enough or all you have time for in a consult, you pretty much have 15 minutes to see a patient. And all you can do in that time is fix the symptoms, give them some medication, barely scratch the surface with some of the lifestyle things that they can do and then send them out on their way and they come back six months later for a repeat prescription, that's basically the model. And really, we're tackling the symptoms. We're not tackling the root cause. So the difference between traditional Western medicine and integrative medicine is that in the integrative approach we are more holistic. So we look at every component of the person's life, from their spirituality to their career, to their relationships, to the level of physical activity, to the food that they're eating, what's actually going on, their previous trauma. Things that, if we were to break it apart like that and focus a little bit more on each individual piece of the puzzle, you can actually achieve healing in a more well-rounded, in a more holistic way. So integrated medicine really focuses on things like: What's the patient story? What are the stories that they're telling themselves and what has actually happened in that patient's life to lead them to the disease process that they find themselves in?
Interviewer: So the chronic diseases sometimes are built up over time. You don't necessarily know that you're doing bad to yourself but it eventually manifests itself in your body, saying "Hey! Please, wake up".
[00:06:18] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. And I mean chronic, as the name suggests, it's something that actually builds up over a period of time. And that's the thing, when you're sitting in a doctor's office and I test your blood sugar and I tell you, "Hey, Clint, you have diabetes", at that point, the wheels have fallen off and this is now a life changing diagnosis that I've just given you. And my next step is to tell you, "Here's the medication that you're going to take". We are not even scratching the surface with regards to, "Well, how did Clint actually get into the situation? What is his lifestyle? What is his family situation like? What are his stresses? Is Clint sleeping? Is he taking care of himself? What is his relationship with food?" And all these things are vital. If you think about health, we often think that health is the absence of disease, right? So you're not sick, so you're healthy. And then until that moment, you get the diagnosis and then you're like, "Oh whoa, I didn't realize, all the while". Things are building one on top of the other and at the end of the day we're hoping to just give a magic pill and make it all go away.
Interviewer: So when I spoke to you on Saturday night, this was an issue that I was eluding to, because I thought "I might save it for the podcast". When I heard that you had walked away from the usual GP practice, it's interesting to hear you say that and I thought that might've been what it is. All the doctors have obviously got a good heart and they want to help people, but they are just stuck in that system. What should we do?
[00:07:50] Interviewee: So the system is actually designed - unfortunately, this is the big problem - the current system is based on the pharmaceutical model. And the pharmaceutical model holds the keys to the kingdom. So they call the shots. It's all about the money at this stage. It's really not the doctor's fault, as you say. Doctors, they go into medicine with the intention of helping people. You don't often get people going into medicine where it's "Oh yeah, I'm just going to go and make money". No, usually the intention behind it is, "Okay, I'm going to go and do my bit to help people". But you get into this model and the whole structure is based on pharmaceutical drugs. And the pharmaceutical industry runs everything, from our food, to our advertising, to health care. So ultimately, when you're in the system that's based on pharmaceutical drugs, it's very difficult to break out and be like, "No, I'm not going to prescribe these drugs". It's not a popular position to hold. The tide is changing, slower in South Africa than it is in the rest of the world, but it's still very much... I once spoke to a doctor who said to me that medicine or being a doctor is not just a profession, it's an identity. And so people, when you immediately walk into a room and tell them "I'm a doctor", the mood changes. People just look at you in this light. And a lot of doctors have built their identity on what they do. And to come in now and tell them that, "Hey, there's maybe something a little bit broken with your model", you're stepping on the toes of giants in the field and it's like, "Whoa, what is this new thing, that new age kind of thing that you're coming in with now that we don't really have much science about?" And that's a lot of the argument.
Interviewer: In control over it, I suppose?
[00:09:53] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. I basically got to a point where I couldn't with a clear conscience continue to do something that I believed was going against what my value system is based in.
Interviewer: And this reminds me of a talk I listened to with Gregg Braden, and in one of his books called 'The signs of self-empowerment'. And in there, he speaks about the scientific evidence that suggests that humans - as we know them in our current form - suddenly appeared 200,000 years ago on the earth. And there is no link between the Neanderthals and humans. Now some people, they are like, "What are you talking about? Evolution is a fact", but actually, he speaks about it and says, "I know it's not". And that challenges all those people who have built their careers based on this evolutionary theory that Charles Darwin put forward. And I suppose it's similar in medicine. So it's like, "Well, this is what we are used to. This is what all the books say". Now how do we break out of that model?
[00:10:55] Interviewee: Yeah. And I guess the problem or the issue here is that, traditionally in medicine, I remember when I was in medical school, things like homeopathy and naturopathy and acupuncture and all those things were kind of like "You guys are playing games here". I remember being once on a ward round, and the consultant was reviewing the chart of a patient and he was creating the antibiotic dose that the doctor had prescribed. And he said, "Are you prescribing homeopathic doses of this antibiotic?" And so, we've been kind of brainwashed to know that the way we do things is the right way, and it's the only way. And everything else, it's kind of like, "Where's your science? Where's your proof? Where are your randomized controlled placebo studies?" And so, ultimately in medicine, we've had this kind of inflated ego. And now what's happening is that science is actually catching up, the studies are now to prove the benefits of meditation and mind/body healing, energy healing, that kind of stuff is actually now starting to come through with scientific studies that are showing, "Hey, look!" and case studies. Things like spontaneous remission for example.
Interviewer: Spontaneous remission?
[00:12:24] Interviewee: Yeah. So there's a whole body of evidence of people who've come forward saying, "Hey, I was diagnosed with such and such condition and now I don't have it anymore". And more and more people are coming out with all of these radical stories of...
Interviewer: A miracle healing?
Interviewee: A miracle healing, right. So then where do you put that? And you go and tell the doctor, "Oh, it's gone now". And they're like, "Nah, there was something wrong with your results", or "The lab got the test wrong", or "Maybe we mixed up your radiology results, you didn't have that tumour to begin with". So we're still quite closed minded and we're still kind of egotistical in "This is our territory and this is ours and you can't have it". And I really think that the way we should be moving forward - and I think it is starting - is that we need to be much more open minded. I'm not saying that there's no place for traditional western medicine, because if I get into a car accident and I break my leg, I want an orthopaedic surgeon. [laughs] But if I've got a chronic medical disease, then it's different. And the majority of the stuff that walks into a GP's office is chronic disease. And we just, the model is broken. We're just not serving patients properly.
Interviewer: I got into a little bit of Wim Hoff. I don't know if you've ever seen Wim Hoff? So he put himself up for science. He's called the iceman.
Interviewee: Oh yeah?
Interviewer: Yeah, so he swims under ice sheets and he says that if you do meditation - what he calls concentration - breathing, and then cold showers or ice baths. So there are three pillars to the Wim Hoff method and he reckons you'll never get sick again. It's a lot to say, you won't get sick if you do this. I've been doing it for a while. I started in January doing the Wim Hoff method and I must say, I'm feeling pretty healthy, but you don't always see the immediate benefits of doing things. You just give me a pill, it works straight away. Whereas if I have to do concentration, meditation, ice baths and whatever, on top of integrated medicine that you're talking about, it takes a while, doesn't it? So how do you consult people and say, "Listen, just give it a while. Maybe you'll see some benefits"? Do they see them immediately, after two months, three months? What do you think it is?
[00:14:56] Interviewee: So this is the problem. We live in a society of immediate results. We want the quick fix. You have a question, you go on Google and you get the answer. We don't really want to do the hard work that is necessary to get the results that we're looking for. And pills have been proven and shown that they will give you results almost instantaneously. So my answer to that is twofold. The first part of that is yes, the pill may help to alleviate your symptoms. You're going to feel better, your pain is going to go away, your sugar is going to come under control. Blood pressure numbers will come down. But if you haven't dealt with the underlying cause of your symptoms, it's only a matter of time before your body continues to destroy itself, essentially. So, in other words, if you're going to start taking the pills and not do anything to change your lifestyle, then literally you can expect that for the rest of your life, you're going to continue to add more diagnoses onto your list of chronic disease. It was not uncommon for me to see patients coming in with three, four chronic diseases clustering together and having at least I'd say between seven and ten prescription medications that they took every single day. So ultimately, that's the way it's going to work. Today, you have hypertension, a couple months or a couple of years, maybe you're going to have diabetes and then after that you are going to have cholesterol, then your heart's going to be the problem. Basically, if you continue on that continuum, it's pretty much guaranteed. As opposed to, if you look at it the other way, where you do the work necessary to change your lifestyle. The point is not adding years to your life. It's adding life to your years. Because I don't want to be a 90-year old person who's shrivelled up and can't function and is relying on ten medications to keep me alive. That's not life, right? You want to be able to be vital. You want to be able to have energy. You don't want to be tied down and thinking, "Oh, I can't go here, I can't do that, because I need to inject myself with insulin every few hours". So doing the lifestyle work is harder. That's the problem. People don't want to do the hard work.
Interviewer: Yeah, it takes work, doesn't it?
[00:17:13] Interviewee: Yeah, however, if you look at the projection going that route, ultimately the benefits far outweigh that hard work that you need to do. Because in the beginning it's difficult. Anytime you change, it's hard, it's uncomfortable. But once you get into a lifestyle and once you start eating healthy and you start looking after your body and you start doing all these things, meditating, practicing all kinds of reflection and that type of thing, it becomes natural to you.
Interviewer: Yeah, it becomes almost a routine. So I want to talk to you about morning routines. But before we do that, I was thinking, gratefulness and reflection. So I was also reading a few of your blogs on your website and a few of your 'about' pages and also through watching all the videos I'm watching on YouTube and such, Dr Joe Dispenza, talking about being thankful. And be grateful about things. So what is your stance on being grateful and reflection and all that?
[00:18:17] Interviewee: So what I've found is that gratitude is the ultimate mood stabilizer. You can't be disappointed and be grateful or angry and be grateful or frustrated and be grateful. And it speaks to our emotional intelligence, when you are experiencing something that's putting you in a very negative head space, one of the easiest things to pull you out is to reflect on the things that you can be grateful for. And so, it has an almost immediate effect on changing your state. Because yes, things could be worse. And maybe things are bad at the moment, but ultimately if you have things that you can focus on and say, "Wow, I actually woke up this morning and I can breathe on my own, there are other people who are dependent on oxygen", for example. Or "I have the use of all my limbs".
Interviewer: Small things to be thankful for.
Interviewee: Yeah. And for me, gratitude is something that helps to lift your mood, it improves your state of mind, your mental state. But it also helps you to kind of put things into perspective. Oftentimes we are bombarded with negativity. People on social media, for example, this compare and despair cycle that keeps happening, right? You look at people on social media, "Oh my gosh, this person has a perfect life". You're comparing your whole life to a snapshot of a person's life and you think, "Oh, I wish I had that". But then we forget to focus on what we actually do have. And there ultimately are a whole bunch of people - not to say that you are putting yourself on a pedestal and saying, "Oh, I'm better than these people because I have all these things". But really, it helps you to put your whole life into perspective, if you able to focus on the good.
Interviewer: People don't always make the distinct or the connection between gratefulness and health. So how does great gratefulness actually help our health?
[00:20:20] Interviewee: So gratitude has been shown to increase your mood and elevate your mood. Which ultimately helps you to do things like relax and also to have better sleep. I think Oprah started this thing of keeping a gratitude journal. And before you go to bed, list five things that you're grateful for. Oftentimes I used to have patients who would suffer from insomnia. This is an actually increasing thing that we're starting to see, lots and lots of people just coming in, "I need medication to help me to sleep at night". And you'll find that a lot of those people, if you tease it out of them, the reason why they are unable to sleep is because of their thoughts spinning around in their head. So they're ruminating, they're constantly thinking of the same thing over and over and over again. "What if this happens? I haven't done that. I'm stressed about this". And because the mind is in the active state of running over things over and over again, what ends up happening is that the mind can't shut off. And part of writing five things down that you're grateful for is a way of reflecting, of actually putting your thoughts out onto paper so that you can see them. But that helps you to stop that cycle in your mind, that keeps going and it's keeping you awake. I'm a big fan of journaling. Journaling of any kind.
Interviewer: What do you journal? I mean, what type of things do you journal?
[00:21:46] Interviewee: So gratitude journaling's really awesome. Listing the things that you're grateful for. I really love that. But then also things like, there's a practice that I read about called 'morning pages', I don't know if you have ever heard about it. Basically, immediately when you wake up, take a journal and you write three pages, whatever's going on in your mind. Whether it's writing about what you dreamed the night before or what you've been thinking about, or how you're feeling, what's going on in your life. Something powerful about reflecting on your life and putting it out onto the page and putting it out onto paper. Especially in that early stage of waking, when the mind is kind of still floating between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind, has a tremendous potential to open you up to the things that you maybe didn't even realize were going on or that you were processing in your mind. I started doing that practice of morning pages as part of my morning routine and literally just writing three pages. And you would think like, "Oh, what am I going to write about?" But it's amazing how, just in that reflection, you're able to process. I feel like what happens is that we get stuck. Our minds kind of just get into this loop and you keep thinking about the same thing over and over again. But once you see it on the page, you're able to say, "Oh, hang on. This is actually what I'm thinking about. What am I going to do about this? Oh, this is how I actually feel about that". And something about still coming out of that sleep phase, an unconscious way of tapping into like, "Okay, what's really going on in my mind?" So I enjoy that. And then I also enjoy just trying to figure myself out. For example, you're dating somebody or you're just getting to know somebody, you want to spend all this time with them. You want to figure out, "Oh, who is this person? What do they like doing? What makes them tick? What are their aspirations or goals or dreams in life?" You spend a lot of time focused on getting to know the person better so that you can create a connection with them. So part of getting to know ourselves is reflecting and trying to answer those questions for ourselves. That's how you get to know yourself. It's a fantastic opportunity to get to know yourself better. So reflecting on, "Okay, what are my goals? What do I want to do today? How am I feeling? What are the things that I enjoy doing? Let me do more of that". And just getting into that relationship with yourself. Journaling is a fantastic way to take care of yourself.
Interviewer: So in the morning you wake up, you do your journaling. What else do you do in the morning that's part of your routine?
[00:24:42] Interviewee: I do meditation. I use an app called 'one giant mind', literally just for the timer. The way I practice meditation, it varies from time to time. Sometimes it's just focusing on a word and usually the word is love. Other times, it's a process of visualization, what do I want to see in my future? Trying to bring the things that I want to see happening into the present moment.
Interviewer: So you're projecting your future self and saying, "That's what I want to be"?
Interviewee: That's what I want to be, that's where I want to go. That's how I see myself in the future. I meditate about 15 minutes in the morning after I've journaled. And then another thing that I do is my devotions. So I read the Bible and I do a daily devotional plan. Sometimes I get it on an application, other times I have just a little book that I go through. And then I also do some exercise. Robin Sharma, 'The monk who sold his Ferrari' author, he speaks about doing 20 minutes of exercise first thing when you wake up. 20 minutes of reflection and then 20 minutes of reading. And then another guy that wrote a book called 'The miracle morning' speaks about something called 'life savers'. Where 'savers' is an acronym, S for silence. So that would be meditation, A for affirmations, V for visualization, E for exercise, R for reading, and then S for scribing. So basically a combination of reflecting, meditating, calming the mind, and then exercising. I usually do some yoga in the morning. I'm not a big exercise person, unfortunately.
Interviewer: I was impressed, I was training my skills last night, "Check me out, I'm 40 and I can still do this".
[00:26:48] Interviewee: [laughs] My old gymnastics days I suppose helped me, which is why I like yoga. I really feel like it helps me to kind of connect again with my body and some of the stretches and the things that I used to be able to do when I was a gymnast. It kind of feels similar to that. So I really, really enjoy doing yoga in the morning as well. And that's basically what my routine is like.
Interviewer: Do you travel a lot?
Interviewee: I used to, so I used to work on the ships. So I used to travel while I was working then. And then since coming back from the ships, I've tried my best to make sure that I do a bit of traveling every year. I'd say I don't travel as much as I'd like to. But I'm hoping that that's going to change.
Interviewer: The reason I asked is because traveling kind of messes up your routine. Not just traveling, I work in London sometimes and then I've got to be up earlier and then I'm like, "I can't do my routine this morning". So it messes it up a little bit. I suppose you just have to be disciplined and wake up earlier.
[00:27:57] Interviewee: That's it. And Robin Sharma speaks about the 5:00 AM club. I'm not a morning person at all. I've never been, I don't like waking up in the morning. But one of the things that I needed to do while I was still working and trying to figure out my life and figure out where I wanted to go. And then I started studying health coaching. So there was work that I needed to get through and I found that by the time I came back home from a day's work, I couldn't study. I was just completely tired and there was just nothing that was going to go into my brain. So I started waking up at five o'clock in the morning to do this morning routine and to study and that kind of thing. I think that the momentum is important, because if you're going to create a habit, they say takes 66 days to form a habit. Before it used to be 21 days.
Interviewer: Yeah, the number keeps changing.
Interviewee: Yeah, the number's changing. But I think it's English Journal that came out with the 66 number, 66 days to form a habit. So say for example you are traveling, I do find it difficult when I'm traveling as well to stick to a routine. But I think even if it is just for five minutes, just to keep the momentum going. Even if you are traveling and you wake up five or ten minutes earlier, just do a little bit of meditation and maybe a little bit of yoga, just to keep the momentum going, I think it's important.
Interviewer: By the way, thanks for introducing me to the word 'ikigai'. And that's Japanese for 'a reason for being'. You said you had an experience.
[00:29:30] Interviewee: I first came across the word 'ikigai' when I was working in the ships. I was reading this book called 'The happiness equation'. And they were speaking about all different parts of the world and what is happiness to different people. And they mentioned the word 'ikigai'. So it kind of was in my brain in some way. And then when I came back from the ships and I was doing this journey of self-discovery and watching all these things and people like Jay Shetty, the ex-monk, speaking about ikigai and that kind of thing. And so, a reason for being, very important, because they voted on studies on the blue zones and some of the Japanese people live in the blue zones. They're centenarians, so they live until over a hundred years. And aside from their diet, the fact that they are still active etcetera, they have a reason for being or purpose, basically, it can be translated into that. And the way Jay Shetty broke it down is: What are you good at? What do you enjoy doing? What does the world need? And then what can you get paid for doing? And kind of where those four circles intersect would be your purpose, your ikigai, your reason for being. And so, I was randomly just doing a search on the internet, came across this website called lavendaire.com, downloaded this worksheet and literally filled out all the circles and then put it away. And I just didn't think about it again. I was just like, "Okay, this is just one of the things I'm doing in my journey of self-discovery. I'm not really going to pay much attention to it". Fast forward a year later, I look at this thing and I'm now studying health coaching and I'm trying to eat better and trying to be a more conscious person. And some of the stuff that I wrote down there, I was like, "Wow, it's almost manifested". A year later, I could definitely see parts of it taking shape. And so again, it comes down to self-reflection. Because we don't often ask ourselves those questions, "What am I good at and what do I think my purpose is in this life?"
Interviewer: Some people might feel like "I'm not good at anything", because they don't have self-esteem.
[00:31:56] Interviewee: Yeah. And they don't value themselves. Part of that is that we believe the lies that other people tell us and the things that we've been told as children, for example.
Interviewer: And even like "We're just matter and there's nothing, we're meaningless".
Interviewee: That's it. Yeah, so what's the point? Exactly. And so, part of that is coming back to trying to figure out, "Okay, I'm here and the time is going to pass anyway. What am I going to do with that time?" I suppose that's essentially what came of the ikigai thing for me. But I think it is important for us to ask ourselves those questions. Because ultimately, you can choose to live a life that essentially, yolo, doesn't matter what I do with this life. But I feel like, if you have the opportunity to make a difference and to do awesome things, why wouldn't you choose to do that?
Interviewer: Some people are happy just to wake, do their nine-to-five, come home, I mean, it's not for everyone what we're talking about, I suppose. I think it is for everyone to be healthy and to love themselves. But I think some people don't want to necessarily change the world, which is fair enough.
[00:33:06] Interviewee: I don't think it's everybody's place to change the world. I think there is place for people who are doing those tasks that need to be done and serving in their own way. But I definitely feel like there's a way of showing up to a nine-to-five that fulfils you and another way of showing up that brings you a lot of anger and a lot of dissatisfaction and disillusionment, that causes you to be sick. It doesn't matter what your ultimate purpose is. And people say, "Find your purpose", like it's this huge thing that everybody's supposed to do.
Interviewer: And they might be stressed about finding their purpose.
Interviewee: Correct. And really, I think that that's missing the point. Because we each have a role to play. And whether that means you're stay at home mom, taking care of your children, that's huge. It's one of the biggest jobs, but we don't view it like that because it doesn't have all the status and everything else that comes with it. And so, it comes down to, "Okay, what's my opinion of success? What do I actually think success is?" And then showing up as the best version of myself to do the role that I'm called to do.
Interviewer: So let's talk about your interest in women's wellness. Because I think that's one of your aims or one of the branches that you go down. Why women in particular?
[00:34:25] Interviewee: Firstly, being a woman, I think I can relate a lot to some of the issues that women go through. Health coaching and wellness coaching is a broad thing to tackle. And I felt like I needed to zone in on a particular group of people. So part of the reason was because of that. But also, I feel strongly that women are for the most part - and that may be a controversial statement to make - but for the most part, the traditional role - I hope I don't step on people's toes by saying this - has been to be nurturing and to care for the home, for the family, for the children. And one of the things that I care a lot about is how we are growing up our children. And in particular how we are teaching our children to love themselves and how to eat. Sitting in the GP practice and seeing so many children come in overweight, to me it was heart-breaking. Because I felt like we're missing the opportunity here. And this is really the grassroots level, where the foundation has been laid. It's incredible how much you can get done by starting off on a good foundation and a good footing. And a lot of the parents would come in to me and this is a sensitive topic to discuss with parents. Because people generally tend to get defensive about "They are my children, I'll do what I feel is the right thing to do". But I would raise things like junk food, etcetera. And they'd say, "Well, my child doesn't eat vegetables. They only eat this type of takeaway food". Then the question becomes, "Okay, but where did the child learn to eat that?" Because a child cannot go to a fast food chain and buy the food for themselves. Not in a judgmental way, but I feel like we need to start taking more responsibility for that at a young age. Because it truly does lay down the foundation.
Interviewer: And mothers are vital, they are so important because they spend the most time with the kids.
[00:36:39] Interviewee: And they are responsible most times with the meals that are prepared in the home. I think there was a study or something like that, that said, "If you educate a woman, you educate the village", because they take that education and they don't keep it to themselves, but it gets passed on to children, to their families, to their friends. Women love speaking about, "Oh, I'm trying this new thing". The word kind of spreads quite rapidly with women. So that's I guess the reason why my focus was primarily on women as a target audience.
Interviewer: So, Carmen, if people want to get to know you more, to find it about what you do and get in touch, where do they go?
[00:37:28] Interviewee: So I've got a website, carmenojames.com, my middle name is Odette. So that's why the O is there. And then I've got another website called dare2loveyourself.com and then on Instagram I'm @dr.carmenjames.
Interviewer: We're not here to promote products or anything, but I do want to know, are you working just in one place in South Africa? Do you see people face to face? What is this personal brand that you're building? Is it going to be international and digital?
Interviewee: Oh, I hope so. I really hope so. Well now, when I get home after this trip, it's really going to be doing the hard work. Because the vision is to have group sessions, workshops, seminars and retreats for people to just learn about health and wellness. And so, I'm hoping that that will also translate into online courses and books and hopefully that will be available internationally. That's my dream.
Interviewer: So Dr. James' next book is...
[00:38:43] Interviewee: Yeah, I do have a book actually coming out. I'm not quite settled on the title yet, but I'm in the process of writing it. It's pretty much written, I'm editing it at the moment. It's about self-esteem. It's about loving yourself. It's about not comparing yourself to others and just literally living the best version of yourself without feeling like you're not good enough, basically.
Interviewer: And people from different backgrounds will relate to those topics, it's not a religious thing?
Interviewee: No, it's not religious. It's got little anecdotes about my life, which do have a religious tone, but it's not a religious book at all. But I definitely feel that it's a book that is more for women. I guess women would relate a little bit more to some of the things that I discuss. But it's not strictly for women.
Interviewer: Brilliant. It has been great having you on the Life Shot.
Interviewee: Thank you so much for having me, I appreciate it.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Dr. Carmen James gave up her job as a General Practitioner (GP) as she could no longer work within the system that was governed by the big pharma's and where most people that came to see her where sufferers of chronic diseases which ultimately must be cured not through "cover the symptoms" type medicines but by sound advice that gets to the root cause of the disease.
This cuts to the very heart of people though as telling them that their eating and other lifestyle habits need to drastically change to cure their disease is not something they want to hear, and what is worse is that change is not quick and people want a quick fix for their sleeping disorders or other ailments. But a more holistic and natural approach would be for people to do the hard work in transforming their lives by forming better thought habits, better eating habits and better activity habits.
Dr. James also spoke about morning routines such as journaling, meditating and yoga and her enlightenment on a trip to the Far East
loveyourself #lifeshotpodcast #alternativemedicine
Carvin Goldstone is a master story teller, his talent lies in telling stories that bring joy, laughter and comfort to his audiences, the world over. Listen in as he gives us a glimpse into his experiences and the ways in which he tell stories to influence others.
My interview with Carvin Goldstone the Comedian was filled with life lessons. We spoke about building your personal brand, being able to laugh at yourself, facing your fears and getting in front of people to have conversations. Why story telling is so important and forms the basis for good natural conversations.
http://www.carvingoldstone.com
Transcription:
Interviewer: Welcome to the LifeShot.
Interviewee: Happy to be at the LifeShot.
Interviewer: So you are here, in England, you are visiting. You came to do a show.
Interviewee: Yeah, it has been fun, hanging out with the people of England. Such contrasting experiences in different parts of the UK.
Interviewer: You have been here before then?
Interviewee: It's been a long time, though.
Interviewer: Many years ago?
Interviewee: Yeah, it's changed a bit. London is still very particular compared to the rest of England. It's so friendly and peaceful out here where you are. In London, it's still very...
Interviewer: Everyone's competing, right?
Interviewee: It's very aggressive, actually. You can't just get on a bus. There is no politeness there. You have to basically push people out of the way, which I am pretty good at. But I am also conscious that I don't want to be seen as the 'pushy guy'. But it's almost encouraged.
Interviewer: You have to push to get ahead.
Interviewee: Yeah.
Interviewer: Sometimes that is not a bad thing, though. But we don't want to step over each other as humans.
Interviewee: Yeah, it feels like that.
Interviewer: When we met, we started doing music first. And then, a few years later, you started to do comedy and it was a bit weird for us guys in the music group.
Interviewee: Yes, this transition.
Interviewer: It was like "Why is he doing comedy?", it seemed totally different to what we were doing at the time. So why did you like the media type, the comedies, now that you have carried on doing it, you have been doing it for many years now.
Interviewee: Yeah. When we did music, it was difficult for us to really make a living off it, if you remember. Especially if you have a group with three guys or four guys. And you are getting paid a fee that is not even enough for one person and you split it among three or four people. We were eventually old enough to find jobs. Actually, I had a job.
Interviewer: You were a journalist.
Interviewee: I was a journalist, yeah. I was doing it more for fun. So the music and the comedy later were just side hobbies, just for fun. Because I had my full-time job, which I was quite passionate about.
Interviewer: Why were you passionate about it?
[00:02:28] Interviewee: Because I enjoyed it. I enjoyed journalism. I was a young reporter, I was excited about discovering new things, uncovering new things, telling stories. I was quite wrapped up in my journalism. The music was a different way of telling stories. And eventually comedy, the three fields that I find myself in - music, journalism and comedy - actually have the same base. They are just different ways of telling stories. I am essentially a storyteller. I am not so much a comedian or maybe a musician or journalist as much as I am in my core a storyteller. So these are just different ways of expressing my core. And I think I am about to discover a fourth one.
Interviewer: Do you want to tell us now or later?
Interviewee: I think the next step is going to be movie making.
Interviewer: I remember you talking about making movies.
Interviewee: Yeah, I was writing scripts a 15 years ago.
Interviewer: I remember you wanted to do something with it, but never got around to do it.
Interviewee: Everything runs its course, right? I think the music has run its course and so when we were getting toward the end of our album to be released, I could feel the shift and I can feel the shift again. So I don't think I will be a comedian for the next ten years. Maybe for the next few years and then the next phase of storytelling will take over. I think it's going to be definitely a movie or series-based route that I will find myself in next.
Interviewer: So, as a storyteller, what message do you want to get out there? Is there something that you want to teach or do you just want to entertain people? Is it entertainment mostly?
[00:04:18] Interviewee: Yeah. It's an important question, why do you do whatever you do? Why are you doing it? Is it to make a living, is it to pass the time, is it because you chose it early on in your life and now you are stuck with it? Because comedy wasn't a career choice, it was a hobby that has gotten out of hand. If I can call it that. I had to ask myself lots of questions, why am I doing this? Because I can drop this at any time and go back to my career. And I realized that my reason for doing comedy is comfort. I am here to bring comfort. Some people use comedy and storytelling for some sort of social justice or for an artistic expression. Or for conveying a message, political or otherwise. Mine is primarily to comfort the people that listen to me. So to bring joy and that is why my comedy is the way it is. It's clean and family-friendly. Because I pride myself in being able to perform to an entire family. Because it is a family experience, I am creating family experiences that are comforting. People that are going through difficult times, you can trust me with an hour of your life to make your life feel a bit better. To comfort you. And that is what the purpose of my comedy is.
Interviewer: It's a shame to lose that if you stop comedy then.
[00:05:47] Interviewee: Yeah, but you see, that is the core of what I am. Or why I am doing this. So my storytelling, a lot of it evolved in nostalgia and the warm, fuzzy feeling as you are hearing the story of "Ah, I remember that". It creates memories of your childhood or your Mum or your Dad. A lot of people say to me "You remind me of my Granny", or "You say things that remind me of my grandmother".
Interviewer: It makes them feel warm and cosy.
Interviewee: So the storytelling that I am going to do, and the movie scripts that I am working on, involve the creating of similar experiences and feelings. Because I feel it's more important to leave people with a feeling and an experience. Because that can last a lifetime.
Interviewer: It's very influential, you can sometimes watch a documentary or a film and it can be inspiring. You walk out of the cinema and you feel a little bit elated.
Interviewee: Exactly. And that feeling that I want to leave you with, is why I am here and why I am doing this. I feel that is my purpose in life.
Interviewer: And that's a gift. You get on stage to make people laugh. Is that not something we should do in our everyday life, not take things so seriously and to laugh? And sometimes, to laugh with each other is to tell stories, I suppose.
[00:07:02] Interviewee: Yeah. If you think of any home situation, you grew up in a family with lots of brothers. And then something happens and one brother comes and he says "You won't believe what happened today!". And he tells the story and the whole family laughs about what happened. The story that one of your brothers brought to the family, it wasn't necessarily a joke. It's a story. But it created an atmosphere of warmth and joy and laughter. And laughter is something you can't control, it just pops out. It's almost like your brain isn't able to process what has happened and the automatic response is laughter. So you can't really fake it. If someone says something and you laugh at something, even if it is inappropriate, your brain is like "I don't know how to answer this" and so you laugh.
Interviewer: Are there any life lessons that you have learned while being on the road doing comedy that has changed your outlook?
[00:08:05] Interviewee: Yeah, I think we are scared to take risks in general. We enjoy the comfort and the security of what we know and what we have always done. The comfort just to be sure of the outcome of whatever we are going to do.
Interviewer: Be it worldview or our jobs.
Interviewee: Yeah, your family, where you grew up, the people you hang out with. The familiarity makes you feel comfortable, sometimes too comfortable, safe. And comedy is one of those fields where you are judged immediately. You came to the show in the weekend, for example. You watched me and you judge me immediately. I tell the story or the joke and I know immediately whether it is good or bad. Because there is no later on to see the ratings. We know, all of us in that room, "That was not great". [laughs] And so, the feedback is so immediate that you have to stay on your toes, but you also have to take risks and be willing to fall.
Interviewer: And that is the lesson that you can take outside of that?
[00:09:15] Interviewee: Yeah, so that supplies now in every aspect of life. You have to take the risk to take the reward. The famous saying "Fortune favours the brave". Whether it is on stage telling a joke or if it is in business or relationships. Just taking a risk with someone you see in the train and have an opening conversation, "So what are you doing there on your computer?". That is a risk you take, right?
Interviewer: Yeah, because they could say "None of your business".
Interviewee: They could say that, but they could say something that changes your life or impacts or creates a new relationship. So the ability to face fear and not be too perplexed by the outcome.
Interviewer: How do people handle rejection then?
[00:09:59] Interviewee: This is the thing, the more you get rejected, the more you will be okay with rejection. And I think that is one of the things that you learn in comedy, because you tell a series of jokes over a period of years. And not all of them are great. And a lot of them are actually rejected. Maybe not the whole show, but that joke in particular, people are like "No". I have had a case where once I told a joke, I told a story as it happened. So at the Boston Marathon, there was a bombing at the Boston Marathon. And I had this joke about running the Boston Marathon myself. I will tell you the joke. But I told them on the day it happened. So the people were like "It's too soon". So I am one of those people in comedy who believes it is never too soon. It is just how well you contextualize what has happened and how quickly you give the feedback. If you wait, then you lose the shock and the impact of it. So something happens today, good or bad, you as the performer have to take the risk to decide how you contextualize the commentary. But the commentary is happening, no news agency is not reporting on it. They are saying something, just contextualizing in a way that makes you - the receiver - okay with discussing this. So the difference with comedy is that there is a laugh-element to it. We are further victimizing the victims and I am very conscious of that. In Africa, we had Oscar Pistorius who shot his girlfriend and there were a lot of jokes about Oscar Pistorius being a paraplegic or not having legs and how he shot his girlfriend. And I felt a lot of those jokes further victimized the victim, which was Reeva Steenkamp, who was killed in the incident. And I felt as if those jokes were not intelligent. So I did tell jokes, but it was never about the fact that Oscar tried to shoot his girlfriend. It was rather elements around the incident. So for example, back to the joke about the Boston Marathon, the joke was about me having a hard time running or taking part in the marathon. And I'd be so tired and if I heard "Hey guys, have you heard there is a bomb?". I would be like "I don't need to finish the race" and peeling off on the side. [sighs] "At least I don't need to finish, no one is watching anymore". And when I started it - now it's not in the context anymore, it doesn't sound so cool - the moment I said 'Boston Marathon', the crowd went "Ooohhh". The interesting thing was, I told the joke the next day, but I rephrased it, because I realized that I presented it in a way that it made it seem as if I was being insincere to the victims. The joke was more about me, being in a race. And the context of 'If this happened'.
Interviewer: So was that a current contextual story, which people could relate to and you were trying to make it about yourself, not about the victims?
[00:12:39] Interviewee: Yeah, the secret sometimes with telling sensitive stories, comedy lives in the world of controversy, of prejudice, of polarization. "You're from Manchester, you have a Welsh accent". He is black, he is white, he is male, she is female. A lot of those polarizing topics is where the prejudice of comedy lies. But it is the way you present that, it is a fine art and there is a very fine line between being prejudice, being racist and being observant and contributing to the conversation in a way we both laugh. Because it is our differences that make us so interesting. Sometimes, a comedian tells a joke on a topic that you have heard before, but it lifts you in a different feeling. It made you feel "I don't feel uncomfortable listening to this person". And maybe the context is even similar. It's because these topics, there is a fine line how you present them in a way where people feel a part of the conversation. And it's very powerful if you get them right. You can have a career that can transcend your own culture, countries and you can develop a fan base that spreads across the world.
Interviewer: I remember talking at work once about it, a political, religious aspect of life. And people were a little bit like "Why are you talking about this in this context?". And they were a little bit uncomfortable with that, but the reason why I like to talk to people about things that are outside the normal conversation is to try and influence people to think outside of the box. And to think "Maybe what I am thinking is not right". I am not saying I have it right. But I just like to challenge people's thoughts. Do you do that a little bit?
[00:14:27] Interviewee: If you have an office space and you are standing at the fax machine with a cup of coffee, and you are having a discussion and you say "Hey, what's up with this religion thing?", it's like "What is he going on about?".
Interviewer: Don't start this topic, or that kind of thing.
Interviewee: That is a risk and probably a risk I would not take in a conversation. But I would take that risk on stage. The topics of religion, politics and race, I would present them on stage. Only because I understand that humour is disarming. If you want to discuss those topics, humour is actually the best way to approach those topics. Because humour puts people at ease and a few laughs would make you more accepting about what I am about to say than if I come up at the coffee machine, it would be like "Oh, this guy really has some racist topics right now". You have to live in a world where you discuss polarizing topics, but you have an advantage in that you know people will be laughing. Because of the way the dynamic of a room works, I'm on stage, I'm elevated, I have a microphone. People have paid to come see me. I'm in a position of power. So, there is a power imbalance in the room the moment I step up. Which everyone has accepted by buying a ticket. But it's my job as the entertainer to level us. I will make a few jokes about myself. The reason for doing that is to level the room, so that you feel equal to me. And my style is very conversational. To anyone watching, it is almost as if we are having a conversation. It didn't feel like a performance. Because that is my style.
Interviewer: You are engaging with that guy in the audience somewhere?
[00:16:13] Interviewee: Yeah, it's a levelled room. It's bringing the room together. And then I know I can discuss topics where you are using humour. I am a flawed person. And the flaws make me easier to accept. So when I present my flaws to you - whatever they are - in humour, you then relax as an audience. You are like "Okay, this person is flawed like me. We can have fun".
Interviewer: Should we do that in life as well, how do we do that in a social environment? Let's say we went to a party where we didn't know the people very well. If I went with my partner to a party and it's like "Some people I don't know there".
[00:16:54] Interviewee: You see it often, you visit someone and they have a big house. And then you are like "What a beautiful house" and they are like "Oh, it's nothing, my Dad bought it". They try to play it down, so they are not on a pedestal. Or they bake a cake "Oh, it wasn't much". What they are trying to do socially, is trying to level. "I am not better than you because I made a cake", or "I am not better than you because this house is big". They try and give context "Oh, my Dad bought it", or "It's from the shop down the road", or "It's an old recipe my Gran had. It's not my intelligence that made this cake. It's my Gran's old recipe". Then we are all like "Yeah, I also have a Gran". So we are finding those common threads that make us equal. Comedy and good comedians are very good at creating that. But those social skills don't just exist in comedy, they exist as you rightly pointed out in social interactions between human beings. And there is a lot to gain from it. Even somebody who believes that they are socially inept or awkward or have no social skills. Those little titbits can be taught, you can learn those little tricks here and there that makes it a bit easier. And sometimes, all that is said in between us is that I see you as above me or you see me above you and therefore you have difficulty engaging. We'll meet someone, maybe someone who's famous and then you hear the comments after engaging with them. "Oh, they are so down to earth". Because in your mind, that block has been broken that the person is above you. You say "What a nice, down to earth person". The down to earth part is basically saying "He is just like us", or "She is just like us". That is the most important little leveller in social interactions, the ability to see people as you see yourself.
Interviewer: You do a lot of shows and you must get a lot of different types of people coming to these shows. I am just assuming what might be going on in your brain is "These people have everyday jobs, they are going through struggles, I need to make them feel comfortable for the night and have a laugh". Everybody struggles in their life with wanting to be successful or wanting to make the most of this life. How should we see this life that we have? We have a limited time here on this planet. What is the best attitude or outlook we should have in this life?
[00:19:24] Interviewee: Clint, I have known you since 2001. We are now 2019. So that is 18, almost 19 years that I have known you. We did music together, you made music as a band, I wrote some music for you. You made music for me, were part of the group that I was a part of. And at the time we had different goals, right? We were hoping to break through, maybe break through internationally, create a little label. We had little goals that we had set for ourselves, most of them retrospectively - after looking back 19 years - we haven't achieved. We never created the label. We don't own massive pieces of sound equipment that we could hire out. We have moved on with our lives. That whole experience that we endured, I look back at it so fondly, because it made me enjoy every moment as it happens. What we always do as human beings - and it's good to have goals - but we live in expectation and we are in-orientated "This is the road to there. Ah, I can't wait". The actual important part is the destination. But the true destination is actually the journey. So when I look back on the last twenty years or the twenty-year period or for the most part, the 10 years we did that, a little bit less, I realize that the goals weren't the destination or the joy. It was what was happening at the time. It was us in the actual bus traveling. That was the beauty. That was it. It was sitting in the studio and making the music. It wasn't the end goal, that was it. So our lives as 70, 80, 90 years if you are lucky, when you look over the course of 90 years, those moments, those five or six years we spent making music intensely, that was the beautiful destination. That was it. There was nothing necessarily coming off that, that we should have been ignoring this way. Not living in this moment, because we were waiting for the end. So I try as much - and for everyone - to live. Right now, we are doing this podcast. For me, this is the most important thing. Whether this podcast is getting 256 views or 256,000 views, the most important thing right now is you and me, my friend, we are doing this podcast and we are having this conversation. This is it.
Interviewer: That's awesome! Do you think at the time when we were younger, we were enjoying those times at the time?
Interviewee: Yes.
Interviewer: But also, we probably think back more fondly on those times.
[00:21:51] Interviewee: Yeah. Fortunately, we were enjoying ourselves. So it wasn't like we were having painful sessions, because we were looking for the goal. I think that's what happens to a lot of people at work. If you think about a job, a 9 to 5 job, you think of how many hours you spend at your job over a period, or if you have been at a company 20 years or in the field 25 years. If you don't like your job and you sleep 8 hours, you spend 8 to 9 hours at work, 2 to 3 hours traveling to and from work, you are looking at the half of your life awake, spending on something that you don't like. For 25 years, that's way too long. So people who are in that position are actually missing their moment. Because they are living in a world where they can't look back on it fondly and say "Wow!" What we fortunately were doing was, we were also building something. Building our lives and creating something. We were having as much fun as possible. So even retrospectively looking back on our lives of joy, of our complete life, you enjoy where you are now, you enjoy where you were then. What I am saying is, I wish I could have known this now and we would have enjoyed it even more then. Because we enjoyed it - fortunately for us we did - but we could have enjoyed it more if we understood "This is it".
Interviewer: That's amazing, I love this message, because it helps me as well. Because obviously, I have goals and visions for what this might become. But you have to enjoy it right now.
[00:23:19] Interviewee: You have to enjoy it right now. Just enjoy every interview, every podcast, every mic-setup, every lighting-setup. The anticipation of the guest coming, the meeting with guests, off-camera conversations, your pre-preparation when you are writing your notes. That's all the joy. The joy is this whole experience. It's not one day when this thing is a big deal and when you are like "This is what I did it for ". No, you are doing it for this moment.
Interviewer: You built a personal brand.
Interviewee: Yeah.
Interviewer: Carvin - as we will see in the interview - has built a personal brand. I am building my personal brand. Do you think that even if people don't start their own business, that they should be thinking about their personal brand?
[00:23:59] Interviewee: Yeah, definitely. I am in a position now where I am able to turn my brand into a legitimate business. So I have an accountant who says to me "Okay, your brand Carvin H. Goldstone, comedian, is an established brand. There is money coming into the brand". So you set up a business in the name of the brand. So my business set up is Carvin H. Goldstone. The money coming in or the income that comes into the brand is then now building up the brand's portfolio to do other things. So Carvin H. Goldstone, not me, the company, can at some point buy property. It can open a school.
Interviewer: It could be a media company, maybe.
[00:24:47] Interviewee: Yeah, it can open media, it can teach podcasts, it can do talks. Because the Carvin H. Goldstone brand that has been built - because it is not a company now - doesn't have to go through all the tedious processes of making its name known. It exists because it's quietly being built in the background for the last 10, 15 years. Now, all it has is a structure and a home to really expand. I plan to open a school of comedy and media. And I'll do it in the brand that has been built, not necessarily myself Carvin Goldstone being present all the time teaching and whatever. But the brand will be powerful enough to do the work. To do the work that I would have had to pay for if I started a new school, to open up a school of comedy. That is now rebuilding something from the ground, what is this? Who is Carvin Goldstone? So people have an idea, there are these clips that they can watch back, so they know what the product that I produce is about and they can expect it in this brand.
Interviewer: So it's about leveraging all of this hard work in the past?
Interviewee: Exactly, leveraging everything. Everything you are doing leverages for later on. But you have to be conscious to enjoy it while you are creating it. And that's the key.
Interviewer: You were brought up in quite a religious background. And then you broke out of that, from what I see. Being in a religious setting can sometimes restrict you or limit your worldview or your outreach. So now that I am out of it, I feel like the world is a much bigger place. But there are obviously things that come with it, like family. So how do you deal with that?
[00:26:43] Interviewee: I think growing up in Africa and growing up in African Christianity, we grew up Christian in Africa. We grew up with a very restrictive and legalistic form of the belief system. Christianity has its confines and its rules and laws. But in Africa, some of those things are exaggerated. So we grew up in communities where if you are Christian, you don't drink alcohol in any way or form. The legalistic framework kind of gives us a specific way of approaching and puts the God experience in a sort of box. And that box is everything to the people in it. So anything outside of their box is going to be offensive, it's going to be wrong. it's going to be demonized. And it's going to be seen as breaking down the comforting safe structure. Because that's what you are doing, when you challenge it. You are not just challenging, you are challenging the pillars on which people have built their homes. And when you pull those pillars away, the danger is that everything they have stood on and everything they have believed in collapses. That's why they fight it. That's why you fight it. Cognitive dissonance. The brain's inner ability to even take something that's logical and understand it, because it destroys your world. So your brain finds different ways to just prove it.
Interviewer: You are so heavily invested in that thought.
[00:28:14] Interviewee: Yeah. So I say "The sky is red". And you are like "No, actually it's blue". I'm like "No, it's red". And my brain convinces me that it's red, because the sky being blue is going to destroy this business that I've made, selling paintings where the sky is red. And this is impossible to now be blue. It messes up my whole world. But breaking out of that is very difficult if your society and the community you come from is very entrenched in it. So it takes a lot of courage to think differently. But I think, at the same time, sometimes you are just ahead of the curve, right? So new ideas and new thinking, it requires a few mavericks who step out of their comfort and think differently. The way we think now might be seen as evil or demonic or whatever. They demonize it. But in 10 or 15 or 20 years from now, you might find that we are not alone in our alternative thinking. Because we live in a generation where access to information is so much easier. So people will basically have access to alternative thought. You think of the reformation, people like John Calvin and Martin Luther, they were sort of the alternative thinkers of their time. Because they were questioning existing in a versatile church structure.
Interviewer: They didn't get treated very well.
[00:29:42] Interviewee: Yeah, they were ostracized, they were put aside, some of them were put to death, in those times. But if you think of the thought processes that they put forward back then, not all of them refined, but on the base, a lot of those thought processes found life way beyond their death. And the way of doing things was fundamentally changed for a large part of the population. Instead of everyone moving this way, and two guys moving that way, we now see a split where a lot of people are now protestant. Because those protestants, their thinking eventually found ground. So I think when it comes to thinking about how we think about God, I think the traditional Christian and especially in Africa, that way of thinking what God is in a very humble almost hand-out kind of way, that is going to be challenged by people being able to live a life where they have things. Christianity thrives in Africa, because poverty and disease thrive in Africa. So what do you do when people are poor and sick? You offer them hope. And religion is hope. And hope is always welcome in a time like that. In countries where maybe poverty is not such an issue and medicine is readily available for disease, you find less dependence on spiritual hope. Because the practical solution is right there, it's easy to take hold off.
Interviewer: So there could be a paradigm coming?
[00:31:13] Interviewee: Yeah. There is definitely going to be a shift. But I think it's going to depend on how Africa in particular - and maybe the third world - is able to come to grips with its core issues. Housing, water, sickness, poverty, hunger is a huge problem in Africa. What do you when someone's hungry and they have no option? What would you do? You pray, that's all you can do, because there is no other practical way of getting stuff. You live with last resorts, really. And a lot of people in religion find themselves at last resort situations. And so, they call on that. And look, it is comforting to at least think that there is a way out of this that is beyond your control. I think as human beings, in our darkest moment or in our trying times we want to know that there is a superior force that will bring us through this. That will take care of our needs. And the greater your need, the greater your basic need, like [00:32:19] hierarchy of needs, the base needs, the greater you are going to need your faith and your dependence. Because you need so much.
Interviewer: This is what I am thinking at the moment, this is my world-view: Like you said, people reach out to a God that might help them at the time, which is like "It is my last hope". I think where we are being guided now, is to think that we can solve these things at a human practical level. So we should challenge what's going on in the banking system, in the world government systems, where it's causing poverty, it's causing inequalities. So we as human beings, the citizens of this world should get together and really make a movement that starts to eliminate poverty, starts to decrease wars, because of our actions on this Earth. So we can - in a sense - save ourselves.
[00:33:22] Interviewee: Yeah. So the move toward a new humanistic approach to saving ourselves, as you point out, it comes from a disillusionment. This illusion with the state which has this unholy alliance with religion. So matter what first world country - the big ones, like the UK and America - if they get to the core of their religious relationship, it's with a Christian partner, so Donald Trump is quite big on Christian ethics. And he's got a good relationship with the Christian community of America. And the relationship between the Christianity and the government is very entrenched. In the UK, the queen is the head of the church, the Anglican church, which is directly connected, they can't be separated. State and religion and church cannot be separated in the big nations. And in the Muslim nations, this is the same thing. It cannot be separated, they are intertwined. But what is the result for the majority of people around the world? This alliance that they have has not brought relief to the people of the world. So what do you do? Do you keep supporting it? Do people keep quiet when they see governments that are intertwined with religious belief systems? Do they just let them continue? No, people are thinking "This is not working. If the world is the biggest government in the world and some of the wealthiest ones have this relationship and there is still so much poverty, then maybe this is not the answer". So I think people are thinking of other ways. Because if we think about the three big religions, or the ones that influence our way of thinking, our way of life the most, the Jew and Christian tradition, Islam being the third, they come from a similar sort of area, region of the world. The Middle-Eastern region, the Middle-Eastern religions and they offer exclusivity. So whether you are Muslim or Christian or Jew, you have exclusive access to a God through your faith in that belief system. Which is quite different to the Eastern or the Indian religions, Buddhism or Hinduism, which allow for a polarity of Gods and allow for different belief systems. These ones that are very exclusive, they spread the widest.
Interviewer: Because they can control?
[00:35:47] Interviewee: Because they are selling you almost admission to a club that you can't get in, unless you are a member. So you can't go to heaven unless you have faith in this particular thing. And that's got a lot of appeal. I am not sure what the rates of evangelism or Hinduism is, but I am pretty sure it's nothing near the rates of Christianity, because it's selling hope. But the countries where this is practiced the most, the relationship between government and religion, the benefit to the world is not tangible. Especially in Africa. You will find that people are as poor as ever. And if we look who colonized us, it were the nations who had this relationship. So what did they really bring? They brought religion and they brought slavery. So how do you reconcile their God with good, when the result has been bad? There has been a lot of disease and poverty. It's very difficult for people to reconcile that. At a thinking level, the more education you get, the more you begin to question "What was this all about, really?"
Interviewer: Is it also maybe keeping them dumb, in a way?
Interviewee: The power, I think it was Livingston who was quoted, who famously said, or in reference to Livingston...
Interviewer: David Livingston.
[00:37:13] Interviewee: He was a missionary and a colonialist and an explorer. It was "When they came to Africa, we had the land and they had the bible. Now we have the bible and they have the land". So the African story is one of exchange of the good. So Africa gave up a lot of national resources to visitors. Whether it was Jan van Riebeeck who came with the Dutch or the English, the British, the Portuguese, all the visitors ended up with a lot. And the people of Africa didn't end up with as much. In fact, until today a lot of them don't have any land or any possessions over time. What they do have, though, is their religion. Africa is deeply religious. Their love of Christianity and a lot of them are Anglicans and Catholics and Charismatics. And so, the hope is in this thing that they have over time really had to exchange their national wealth for.
Interviewer: I think we need to break out of that. And I think, as humans, we need to fix the problem. Hopefully there is an enlightenment coming within Africa. Do you see that or do you still see that it can be hidden from them somehow by those who want to control?
[00:38:35] Interviewee: This is the thing about breaking the chains of your oppressor, Africa is going to find itself a new master if they don't get to grips with themselves. Because the Chinese will not let Africa just pass by. Africa is rich with resources. They are basically offering to pay off debts of African countries, "Take a loan from us, we'll board your harbour. And then, if you can't pay back the fee, we'll own the harbour. Or you'll give us rights to fish off your coast". Chinese fishing nets are cleaning up the natural resources in the ocean, the sea creatures.
Interviewer: So they could be aware of this?
Interviewee: Yeah, that's actually happening at the moment, Africa now finds itself with a new sort of master that's on the doorstep.
Interviewer: It's an alarm bell, really.
[00:39:34] Interviewee: It's an alarm bell, and I'm not sure how Africa breaks out of it. Because if you look at the history of Africa, there was a time in Africa when Africa was powerful. There was a time when Africa was a trading point, places like Tanzania and Zanzibar were travel routes between the East and Africa. So trading between Arabia, trading between India. Those routes existed before colonials came. You saw places like Timbuktu and Kush where Africans established kingdoms and dynasties and Egyptians had lots of technology, mathematics and hieroglyphics. What would have happened to Africa if it wasn't colonized? Would Africa have eventually developed? I don't think so. I think technology development is a combined effort and we are all basically a combination of all the great ideas and thoughts. So today we have microphones and we are doing podcasts. Podcasts are a great idea. How many little pieces had to come together to design, before we got to podcasts? Microphones had to be designed, ideologies, psychology had to be thought out. Conversation had to be thought out, cabling, cameras. There are so many little pieces that eventually got us to this. So the podcast itself might be a creation of something awesome, but there are so many little bits and pieces that had to be created before we got to this point. So I think likewise for Africa to have thrived, it couldn't have stayed in isolation. What could have happened, though - I am not sure if you have ever been to Dubai - but whenever I go to the United Arab Emirates, I always think "This is possibly what Africa could have been". Because the United Arab Emirates, Dubai in particular, was like this little fishing village, where guys would dive, open clams, pick poles. That was the trade of the Emirate people. And then, in Abu Dhabi they discovered oil. Once they discovered oil, they realized that oil is a massive resource and this is going to make us very rich. But the structure they put in place was how they were going to take it out and stay in control of the wealth. Which is very different to the African story. For example, they got the British involved and a few other people to come help them get the oil out of the ground. So they can't get the oil out of the ground, they know who can. But they don't want them to completely own it. So they have these laws in place where if you open up a business in Dubai, you have to have an Emirate partner. And I don't know if it is still in place, that partner had to be the majority partner. So if you wanted to take any wealth, you made sure that you were also enriching a local person. Africa's story is completely different. If you ever go to Kimberley, the big hole where they found the Cullinan diamond, that sits in the crown, they found in Kimberley these masses of diamonds. And it was just like wild, wild west. It is almost like crypto-currency in a way. because everyone just goes and takes whatever they need and you trade it and you move. And people are building these digging areas and little rigorous [00:42:43] there and someone digs next to it and they get a little breach. And there were just holes everywhere. Until, I think it was the De Beer, he got the idea that no man can form a diamond company and we can control how the digging and all that is happening. But when all of that stuff came out of the ground, it went everywhere except to people. You went to Kimberley, right? It's a dead town, it's hard to believe. I think it's the second place to have street lights in the world, I think the first was Philadelphia or something. So Kimberley was ahead of its time, you had the Kimberley stock exchange. It had its own stock exchange, it was trading diamonds, trading gold before Johannesburg was a thing. It was a city ahead of the world in many ways. And it had this amazing resource of diamonds. It was discovered I think in a river. The story goes like this: There were kids playing in a river and they found a stone. They gave it to a traveller. So the kids were playing with it, the traveller said "I'll give you something for it". The man checked it out, they were diamonds. So they knew. And diamonds, they obviously were kicked out of the volcano at some point. So they formed out of a volcano and pushed out. So they were in the river that flowed down. So they knew there was something there and they were 100% correct. Now there is a massive hole. The hole represents the wealth of South African Kimberley. But none of that wealth exists for the people of Kimberley. That wealth has been exported to particularly Britain. I sometimes wonder if diamonds and gold had been discovered in a time like today, like how Dubai or Abu Dhabi was set up, that Africa would have been a better place. It just makes you wonder what type of world we would have lived in. Because if you go to the UAE, you find that foreigners or visitors and local people, there is a relationship they enjoy or they experience that is so different to Africa. They don't see foreigners as colonists, they see them as helpers. It's co-laborers in mining the wealth of Dubai. Whereas in Africa, the people see the colonists as oppressors. I don't know if that relationship will ever change, the way the African people view Europeans in particular, who came to the different countries, like the French, some parts of the Congo, the Belgians and obviously the British and the Dutch. The Portuguese in [00:45:24] and Angora. I don't know if there ever will be a time when African people will be able to hold hands with these people. Because for the most part, the African people until today are still poor while a lot of these great-grandchildren and grandchildren of the original arrivals are still wealthy. And that gap in South Africa is probably the worst, that gap between rich and poor.
Interviewer: I think it's probably up to these countries now, in a way, to redistribute technology, wealth, knowledge into the entire world, so that we can all benefit. If Africa is stronger, the whole world is stronger. So I don't think there is any point in people and powers that be controlling this wealth and trying to control people. It is probably beneficial to them right now, but our future, as our planet, as our children and our grandchildren, we need to build a place that is equal all around the world. And we have to make this movement, we have to do that.
[00:46:24] Interviewee: Well, the problem with that, Clint, political systems that exist... Socialism - which in a slight sense is what you are hinting at - is not popular in the Western world. The idea that the Westerners would somehow give up their resources to help the less, I don't think that is going to catch fire. I know America already has a problem with any form of socialism among their own people, their neighbours, people at the border, you read every day of how they don't want to offer healthcare to immigrants at the border. That is what you are suggesting, that's probably the closest that they can practice it, and they don't want to practice it. I'm not sure how the UK feels about moving from where it is now to a more socialistic approach to solving world peace. Democracy remains the preferred political system. Capitalism remains the preferred financial political system. And as long as those exist, it will always come down to who has more knowledge, who knows more, who has better connections. And those who don't, will fall back.
Interviewer: Not that I am a socialist, I haven't really thought about this a lot, but I think that we are going to evolve a different type of political system. It may not even be a political system. But there is going to be a new way of... Not governing people, because I think that's the wrong word. A new way of living.
[00:48:08] Interviewee: Well the idea of democracy was that people chose the government. Democracy was that the people shall vote and the people shall govern. But the problem with democracy is that you can't have democracy with an under-educated election. So if the people don't know the deal, what's going on, they shouldn't really be allowed to vote. That might sound like a very dictatorial thing to say, but if people don't know what is on offer and who stands for what, how can they make an informed decision on who should lead? And so, political parties prey on that, they prey on the ignorance of people. That's why you have these far right leaning and far left leaning parties and movements that keep rising up. The fact that Donald Trump is in power is a direct response to Barrack Obama being in power. So the left ruling for two terms, the right being so agitated, they don't really care necessarily what the policies are. They just feel like they are being isolated. And so the voting is along racial lines and it's along really personal lines about who I am as a person, what I look like. In South Africa, too. As opposed to "What are the policies the party is offering?"
Interviewer: Well, it has been great talking to you, Carvin. I like this thought-pattern and I think that the more we talk about it, the more we start to think about it and hopefully, the more people listen, the more we think about it. I don't have the answers. No one has the answers right now. But as we collectively think, we might come up with something that is going to work, that is going to help.
[00:49:52] Interviewee: As a political system - just to round it up - what I think should happen, in a country like mine like South Africa, we have the unfortunate legacy of apartheid and being freedom fighters. And then a government that needs to pay or thank freedom fighters for what they did. So there is a payment system that's paid through government, the government positions and head of departments and mayors and premiers. So these positions at this point in time are not necessarily going to the best people that could take a country like ours forward. There is a list of people that haven't received any benefits for fighting in the struggle and giving up their lives and losing partners. A lot of the older freedom movements like the ANC, there is a big struggle of how the party moves forward. Because when they elect people like Jacob Zuma to the presidency, any thinking person in and outside the ANC will ask themselves "Was this really the best foot forward? When they looked through all of the ranks of the party, with a legacy of people like [00:51:11] and Walter Sisulu, Nelson Mandela, then Jacob Zuma? This is our best step forward?" And I don't think that necessarily is the best step forward or anyone else that comes afterwards. I think we are just in this awkward age of still having to pay people who help fight for freedom. My wish is, once we get through this tricky period, that we start appointing some ideals governments. The best doctor in the country is the minister of health. And the most decorated police man, active working, is the minister of police. And likewise, the most decorated judge is the minister of justice. So I think a very professional [00:52:02] EO private type approach to government is the only way we are going to fix our political system. Because I think in that case, we will at least get a lot of experience, firstly, in those fields. And logical thinking towards the best systems. I think as long as it's politicized and the people put into these positions are actually politicians and not professionals in those industries, we are going to keep running around in circles. So my ideal political system in South Africa - and I suppose in most parts of the world - would involve the best available person in that field being the minister of that. So I will give you a small example of a little political situation. There are ten of us and we are friends and you are good at making music, I am good at telling jokes and Pete is good at break-dancing. You are not going to ask me to be the break-dancer. In our little political group, it's going to be him, he should be the minister of break-dancing, because he is the best break-dancer and that makes the most sense. So that's a microcosm. On the grand scale, if we could get that sort of thinking into our political system, the best results for us to get the best police results is to have the best police man. Kind of conducting, because all the experience and the know-how is what's going to give us an advantage. Because knowledge is power and it gives an advantage. That's why you have knowledgeable people in high positions. Because the knowledge and that experience just makes us more dynamic, more sharp, makes us think better on our feet. And we don't have that.
Interviewer: Carvin H. Goldstone, comedian, friend, thanks for being on LifeShot Podcast.
[00:53:52] Interviewee: Thank you, it has been fun.
Interviewer: And I wish you all the best for the rest of your trip in the UK. And if people want to see more about you, where do they go?
Interviewee: I have a website, it's carvingoldstone.com. And you can find everything you need there.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you very much.
Interviewee: Thanks.
I speak to Jon Nicholson about his gym and methods which he says give a more well rounded type of body fitness, which has better outcomes for your life. Jon believes that awareness of movement is a powerful thing to tune into.
He suggests that we eat only natural whole foods and try to eat what our ancestors ate. If your ancestors were from a certain region of the world, find out what they used to eat and eat similar things as your stomach will be more attuned to those types of foods.
We spoke about why some of us give up on gym and how we can break bad habits. His 3 tips from Bruce Lee were pretty cool where he said that you need 3 things from your physical training, something practical, health benefits and personal and spiritual development.
When thinking about gym, you need to think whole body fitness such as mobility, flexibility and strength.
Transcription: LS07 Gain a more well rounded view of fitness and gym with Jon Nicholson
Interviewer: This is Live Shots podcast. Today we've got John Nicholson with us. John is from the Original Gym. And when I looked at your About page John, I saw a whole lot of things going on there, Jujitsu fighting, MMA and you've done psychology at school or at university. But welcome to the live show.
[00:00:32] Interviewee: Cool. Glad to be here. It's going to be a lot of fun.
Interviewer: Yeah. John, off camera, we've been talking about these exciting things about the body and the mind and being in sync. And I think it's some really exciting stuff that our listeners are going to be just like "What? I can't believe it. That's awesome". And so let's just dive in. So, tell us about yourself and also about the Original Gym. Where did the name come from? How did you start it? Just give us a bit of background about John.
[00:01:03] Interviewee: That's kind of two questions. The first one is a fairly kind of longish history, lots of things along the way. Where I would start things is, I started some martial arts quite a long time ago. It's over a decade ago now. And I tried a few different martial arts, ended up doing some MMA, which is really good, mixed martial arts. And when I was learning that, it was a big problem for me. I was weak. I was uncoordinated, couldn't move well. And I just felt like I wasn't really making progress, I was really struggling. So I started looking into things, how can I move better?
Interviewer: And this was in the early 2000's, or when was this?
[00:01:55] Interviewee: I'm going to say this is early 2000's, yeah, very early 2000's. So I started looking at things or how grapplers should move better, this kind of stuff. There was one kind of accident, really big accident. I heard someone say, "Oh, you know, you need a good awareness of your movement or control of your movement" or something like this. And that was the early days of the Internet, so I went to Google and I was just searching for all these things and I came across this awareness through movement and I completely got it wrong, actually. What I was looking for was awareness of movement. So I wanted to develop the ability to learn how to move my body, and it turned out to be something a lot bigger. But that got me into things like kettlebells and very early on, like the first CrossFit and people doing pistols and all this kind of stuff of body weight conditioning. So that's what I was looking at then. I bounced around with some stuff. I had a lot of injuries. So I had a surgery on my shoulder, all these kinds of things.
Interviewer: Where did the injury come from?
[00:03:03] Interviewee: From grappling, from martial arts. You get thrown around, Jiu jitsu for example, literally, you are trying to break the body. You take a joint and try to snap it the wrong way. It's a lot of fun, you are playing around.
Interviewer: So someone got you?
[00:03:17] Interviewee: Things go wrong, yeah. They do. That's part of it. It's high risk, high reward. And things went wrong a few times. I think, looking back, I know that I had a predisposition, my posture was terrible. So it was waiting to happen sooner or later. Because I was moving really badly. And I had done other sports before, like riding a bike. So BMXing was actually what I was doing before that. And it's great, it's a lot of fun. And I was moving, but it is a very limited thing. You're holding these handlebars all the time. And your shoulders are really forward, your upper back's really rounded. It's not a very well rounded wide moving.
Interviewer: So even doing the grappling, your body wasn't able to cope, you felt like you couldn't move properly?
[00:04:07] Interviewee: Yeah, just even learning movements. It's just everything, some people are natural athletes, we call them natural athletes. There's just that kid that can pick up any sport and play it well and we think they're natural athletes. And to me, I didn't like the idea that I was an unnatural athlete or that kind of a thing. I was thinking "You've got to figure this out. You'll be able to learn to do this, to become a natural athlete". And it's sort of a funny thing. Now, I'm going to do things and people are like, "Yeah, but you're a natural athlete". I've literally heard people say that, I just don't think it's true.
Interviewer: So your childhood maybe, you weren't doing sports? Or were you?
[00:04:47] Interviewee: No, not particularly. When I was in my teens, I took up BMX. But like I said, it's not a very well-rounded thing, in terms of the movement. It's a lot of fun and all this kind of stuff, it's great. But you do get injured doing that as well, obviously. But the big thing is, it's very limited. You are holding a handlebar and you got your feet on some pedals. It's not that much you're moving your body. And then you've got something like grappling.
Interviewer: It's a next level movement.
[00:05:19] Interviewee: Yeah, and you're really moving your body all over. You are having it cranked on and twisted and all this kind of stuff. I'm not a particularly big guy. And I was a beginner, thrown in with the big sharks a little bit. And it wasn't up to scratch. So I was like: "I have to fix this". So I quickly picked up the physical conditioning, it was something I really needed to do.
Interviewer: So we're going to get onto the [00:05:44] thing about how you also try to heal your body with that. Before we get onto that though, tell me about this name, Original Gym.
[00:05:54] Interviewee: Ah, okay. So the Original Gym. Okay. From there, we fast forward a little bit, there's some other things. I was looking at physical conditioning, the MMA turned into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I was more and more interested in the mind and body, all this kind of stuff, doing what I'm doing, my training. I decided that I just needed a break. It changed my life essentially, a break from a career in this kind of stuff.
Interviewer: So you were fighting almost like a professional? You were an amateur fighter?
Interviewee: Amateur, yeah.
Interviewer: But it was your full-time thing? Semi-professional?
[00:06:30] Interviewee: No, I had a career, I had a day job. A conventional, 9 to 5 job. And I was more and more interested in this stuff and I realized "I'm spending 40 hours a week doing something that I just don't care about. That is a waste of time". Of course you have money and with money you can do things. But...
Interviewer: It was not really what you were passionate about.
[00:06:50] Interviewee: Yeah. It was just a waste of time, really. And there were some things, like the things that had to do with funding and education in the UK, were changing. So I was like "While it's financial a little bit more viable, I'll go and do a degree. Blank slate, clear the thing".
Interviewer: So you weren't fresh out of school?
[00:07:13] Interviewee: Yeah, I had a corporate career, for nearly a decade. So I decided to go back to uni, do a degree in psychology, studying a really important subject. It wasn't that I wanted to be a psychologist. I just wanted to understand.
Interviewer: Understand the mind?
[00:07:33] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. And it was something that I wanted to do for myself. And I knew that I could apply it everywhere. So funding for that, I'm like "Well, I am spending a lot of time learning about this strength conditioning stuff. I'll train as a personal trainer, so I qualified as a personal trainer so that I could earn some income while studying. So going from like full-time income to very, very part-time income. And I'm working in the university gym, which is great. Like it was a really great life. It was right next to the library, so I was studying and then going to the gym, either working or training. And just living that life training Jiu Jitsu at night and doing that for a few years.
Interviewer: Did you have a social life?
[00:08:17] Interviewee: Well, it's a very social thing. Like these things are very social things, so yeah. But not really in the conventional sense. No, I didn't do the whole uni kind of thing. I've missed that boat. So anyway, I was working in the gym at the university which is really good, big learning experience. I was going from sweeping the floor to delivering PT sessions, gym inductions. So it was right at the bottom, kind of rung of the ladder, but learned a lot. I just watched a lot about what goes on in gyms in those couple of years.
Interviewer: These were mostly students and they weren't paying you as a person trainer. But did the university pay you?
[00:08:56] Interviewee: Yeah, the university paid me. But they delivered personal training as well, which was mainly lectures and stuff, using the gym as well. So it wasn't just students. But I saw what was going on a lot there. And then anyway, I did my graduation and it was kind of a coincidence, when I graduated, an opportunity came up to rent a space, a room on the other side of town. And I thought about it. And I did some other work in a commercial gym as well. One of the big chain gyms, that was horrific. And one of the things I realized was, I want my own thing, my own space. So that I can really set the tone, set the environment and clear everything out. So the gym is very minimalist, it doesn't look like a chain gym. There is a very minimum amount of equipment.
Interviewer: It's stuff that you don't normally see in a normal gym?
Interviewee: Stuff that you don't normally see, yeah.
Interviewer: Like rings, like you've showed me.
[00:09:56] Interviewee: Yeah, rings, barbells, weightlifting equipment. A couple of minimized squat racks and bars, plates. The horses, gymnastics benches, really very minimal equipment. And it's funny, because when I was studying for my psychology degree - it was a real pain in the ass, actually - the nearest psychology part of the library, the bookshelf, was right next to the sport science section. So I read as much sport science as psychology in the end. And these are all Russian books. And they had everything. I really saw how they were using this whole gymnastics stuff. Like guys doing back extensions on benches and all of this kind of stuff. And I just saw, with a bit of creativity, you don't need all of this nonsense that's in gyms. You don't need it. And it's just a wrong approach. So anyway, I got my own space, I start putting equipment in, a couple of people just popped their head through the door and were like "Oh man, it's like the old-school gym". There were some other influences as well. One thing was, there was a really old Paul Chek interview. He's a famous fitness industry guy, really interesting guy. And I read this interview with him and it was really interesting. He was talking about the original bodybuilders and what they were doing in the 1920's, maybe earlier than that. It was a spiritual pursuit. So they weren't just building the body, they were building the mind and the soul and this whole physical culture thing. And that just stuck in my mind. And then it came out as "This is the Original Gym". And it was just a bit funny, really. It was with comedy, with a sense of humour anyway. It's something that can be as deep as you like it to be. But this whole Paul Chek thing was just very, very funny.
Interviewer: Before I forget, we were talking off camera and you mentioned that thing about Bruce Lee. And you mentioned the three things for...
[00:12:11] Interviewee: Ah, yeah, yeah. This is a big thing. There was another thing that really stuck in my mind, it was from a Bruce Lee thing. He was talking about martial arts and he said "Martial arts should have three major kind of areas of benefit". And the first one is practical. So in martial arts, you should learn how to defend yourself. If you're doing a martial art and you can't defend yourself, you probably aren't doing the martial art right. You are doing something else or something wrong. Second aspect is, it should be good for your health. Now, I've done a lot of martial arts, that can run into some problems. Injuries, that kind of stuff. But basically, it is really good for your health. And then the third dimension he talks about, is self-development. So you can train and you use this as a vehicle for self-development. And there is a book "Zen in the art of Archery". It's not a true Zen text, but it talks about a simple thing, which is archery, and how you can use this as an activity for self-development. And it mentions that you can use anything. You could be knitting and use that as a form of self-development or a spiritual pursuit. So for me, it's "You want to do something for your health, you want to go to the gym". Make it tick these three boxes. Again, if you are going to the gym, maybe you pump your muscles up a little bit. But if you can’t jump over a fence or get up from the floor, or sprint down the road...
Interviewer: Your back gets hurt from just tying your shoelaces.
[00:13:42] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. That is a classic one. If you go to the gym and you have nothing to show for it, or no physical abilities to show for it, you can't operate practically. You were doing the wrong thing.
Interviewer: So you are not ticking off that first box?
[00:13:56] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. And if you look at somebody a little bit older, one of the first things they can learn is things like getting up and down from the floor. That sounds ridiculous, but how do you get up and down from the floor if you trip, if you fall? That is a really, really big thing for someone who is a little bit older. If you are a little bit younger, you need to be able to move, you need to be able to do things. Like someone has a heart attack, you need to run to the end of the street.
Interviewer: So there is no use being very muscular?
[00:14:27] Interviewee: It's one dimensional and that is another thing. Same thing like, you might be able to run a marathon but if you can't climb a tree or something, it's not going to help you. It is very one dimensional, I would say. So you should develop practical abilities when you are training. And obviously, the second thing is your health. And health, I think, with the conventional notion of exercise... Again, I think it is a very big thing in the west, we are very number-oriented. So people have these recommendations, these ideas "I need to do 3x 20 minutes of cardiovascular exercise for my heart", this kind of thing. And it's really myopic. You've plucked out this one number and you've hammered it and you see people going running and I'm like "Yeah, but you've screwed up your knees and you've screwed up your back. And you can't do a pull-up".
Interviewer: So your health is not really generally well. It might be well in certain areas, but not generally?
[00:15:26] Interviewee: Yeah, you've taken one metric and you've improved that. But you missed everything else. Or you look at somebody who's lifting a lot of weight and they can't touch their toes or this kind of thing. They only have a singular focus and they don't zoom out to look at the bigger picture. And the health problems, there are musculoskeletal health problems. So when people are doing certain forms of exercises and they come with the same injuries or a degradation over time. Cycling is great, it is a great way to get from A to B, but if you sit at a desk all day and you are hunched over, and you think "I am going to do something about this". And you continue to sit like that - on the bike - for a couple of hours, you're not really doing the right thing. Don't get me wrong, riding a bike is great. But again, you need to zoom out and look at the bigger picture, for your musculoskeletal health and your metabolic health as well. You see people especially do tons of either high intensity, which is very popular or marathon running, that kind of stuff. And you combine that with chronic dieting, there are some health issues that can come with that down the road.
Interviewer: So they're putting a big strain on the body all the time.
[00:16:49] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly, they are not balancing thing out very well there. It's all about psychological health, that is another whole can of worms. But then Bruce Lee's third model is the self-development thing. And again, that's the same thing. Getting into the gym or not the gym. The gym is just one place. It's used as a vehicle for self-development. And this is where I really decided to do what I am doing, for now anyway, was in my psychology degree. We were studying psychological therapies, there is a lot of lessons that you can learn essentially, that are very, very good for one's psychological health. And I realized that most of these things you can learn through physical training. One of the big things is a growth mindset, as a Harvard psychologist, Carol Dweck, wrote a very book. It's this idea that we have a theory about ourselves that we then enact or are limited by. She would talk about some kid, he goes to school and has math, for example. And the kid is good at math, he can do it. So he continues being good at math. And as he keeps progressing through school, keeps being really good at math and he doesn't ever do his homework. And he builds up this self-image of "I'm good at math". There is no known reason why, he's just good at it. And then he hits a point all of a sudden, where it gets hard. And how do you react to this sudden change? All of a sudden it's difficult. And what happens with some people, they build a story of "While I was given this ability of being good at math, I didn't work for it, it just came out of the sky. And now I've used it up". So it is like you were born with a fixed amount of mathematical ability and you were good and then you stopped. You hit the ceiling and now you're done. And you never learn to study and improve. So you have this idea that you have a fixed quantity. And this is a self-story, this narrative. I hear it. It's a little different thing, age is the same kind of thing. People build this self-story.
Interviewer: So, thinking about something now, I am in my early 40's. And I used to be very flexible and used to move a lot in my childhood. And even in my 20's, I could do stuff and then I stopped training. And then I couldn't do it. And I thought I would never be able to do that stuff again. But as I am doing this stuff that you are talking about, I find that my body can do it again. So I limited myself thinking "I'm too old".
[00:19:41] Interviewee: Yeah, of course. And it doesn't matter what the story is, there are lots of stories. "I’m just not good at this". Well, did you try? And if you go into something with the attitude that you are not going to be able to do it, why bother trying? You shouldn't even try. "I'm weak, I'm this, I'm that". Physical training should be a real vehicle to teach that, because it's fairly simple. You pick up one kilogram. If you pick up one kilogram enough times, guess what? You can pick up two kilograms. It just works. There's a very simple message in that, which is: There is a thing that was impossible, you couldn't pick up two kilograms. But you did some work and now you can. And that is this idea of a growth mindset. It's a very simple, embodied, physical way of teaching that concept. You learn, you're like "I couldn't do this thing and now I can". And there are lots of other things like this. Juggling is a great example. Juggling or a handstand for example.
Interviewer: I tried juggling with three balls, I just couldn't do it. I'm not saying that I can't do it, I probably can, but I just need to practice, right?
[00:20:52] Interviewee: Well, yes and no. Yes, it's as simple as that, but it's more complicated than that. Juggling, for example, if you take three balls and you try and juggle is probably going to be pretty hard. You are probably going to give up fairly quickly. Because there is no process. And if you break it down into parts, with juggling you'd start with one ball. And you just learn to throw the ball between one hand and the other. Like a really smooth arch. And again, you practice and you do repetitions. Until you've got that really perfect. And then you introduce a second ball and you throw from one hand and with time you throw the second ball. And you practice that. And again, it's built off the first skill. So, if you get that wrong, it's probably because you didn't practice the first one enough. And you back to practice. Then from there, once you can do two balls perfectly, you add a third ball and with a bit of timing, boom, you've got it and you can juggle. And you've taken something that seemed impossible. And you break it down into steps and you put in the work and you are going to have a process, you are going to understand it. You have broken it down and you are going to be motivated to do it. And then, all of a sudden, whatever your time frame is, you can do something that was previously impossible. And that for me, this is your life lesson. And this is what you should be taking and applying elsewhere. And I've had people say that since training with me, they look at things differently. And that is what I fundamentally believe. There are limits. We can't fly yet. Yet. But yeah, you should be able to... Any kind of problem, you see it as just a problem. It's not a big problem, it's just a problem. Problems can be solved. You are going to break it down into parts, practice, continue. And it's a very, very big thing. And that growth mindset then has huge impacts on psychological health. Problems at work, all these kinds of things. You see the world as full of possibility, rather than this impossible kind of thing. This is one of the areas where the psychology influenced my choice to do this. And essentially, physical training has big cognitive and emotional components and benefits. But again, only if you do it a certain way. You have to have that stuff in mind, in order to choose your activities correctly. And again, a lot of people, what they are doing doesn't really teach them that. Because they are doing the same stuff over and over and it is very limited. And then they run into problems.
Interviewer: Jon, I'm intrigued by the movement, the emotion thing, the awareness. Loving the rings, by the way. I wish I had them in my house. I was looking at the About page on your Original Gym website, you mentioned somebody called Moshe Feldenkrais. And he talks about movement and awareness. I've never even heard of that.
[00:23:51] Interviewee: Yeah, this a big thing. It was kind of an accident that I came across his work. And I was looking for awareness of movement. Which is a really big thing. And it does develop that. But there is a much bigger thing beyond that. This goes back to a lot of psychology, essentially. It actually goes back to guys like William James in 1891. And they are talking about this idea that all of our thoughts, emotions and thinking are rooted in the body. And therefore, if you believe that and actually working with the body is the best way of working with the mind. So for example, some of Feldenkrais' early work, he was writing stuff in the early 1940's. He is one of the first judo black belts, European. So he looked at judo, he looked at body development, he looked at psychology. He was engineer trained, so he really looked at the body from an engineering perspective. And his big thesis was essentially, if you are not addressing the body in psychotherapy - one of his books was a critique of Freud - then you are not going to change someone. Because our whole self-identity, our thoughts and emotions are embedded in the body. So you might do some talking, therapeutic work until someone feels better, but the minute they get up from the couch - which is one thing that he said Freud got right - they go back into their body pattern and all of their problems come back because it is associated with how they're holding their body. It's a really interesting idea. And it goes way back. The real yoga, the early yoga texts, this is a big thing.
Interviewer: It's almost like we've lost that connection to the body in the industrial age?
[00:26:07] Interviewee: I would say, the one biggest thing that I believe in and that we need to do, is to reconnect. And this idea of connection is a very powerful idea. People aren't connected to their bodies. They are in their body, but they don't feel it. Recently I was at a train station. Having coffee, waiting for a train. I was looking at people walking. And what's really interesting, you look at a crowd of people and how many people are hobbling and dragging their legs along? Or body builders in a gym, they've pumped themselves up and it just looks uncomfortable. It looks like they are wearing... Like I hate wearing a suit and a tie and this kind of stuff, it just kills me. I can't move. People are living in uncomfortable bodies. You might have expensive clothes, but your body just looks really uncomfortable. And they just have uncomfortable bodies, I think. And I think it's because they are disconnected from them. The same thing with for example food and nutrition, this kind of thing. I think that people don't know what is good and bad for them. They don't have a good felt sense. And you can look at the psychology literature, which is really interesting, because it looks at interception. Which is our sense of our self. So our physical self. The classic way of measuring this is how accurate you are sensing your own heart rate. So some people have a very good sense, they can just feel "Ah, my heart rate 'Boom, boom, boom', like this".
Interviewer: Without even touching it?
[00:27:54] Interviewee: Yeah, without touching. Just internal feeling. It's a measure of one's interoceptive ability. And there are big correlations with greater interoceptive ability and low interoceptive ability. A big one is eating disorders and that's both being very, very overweight and very underweight. It's the same kind of thing, a feeling for how much should they be eating. They have just disconnected from this idea.
Interviewer: And some people don't feel full and I can't even relate to that, because when I eat a meal, I feel full after it.
[00:28:38] Interviewee: Exactly, it's the same kind of idea. Actually, you have the same thing emotionally. Our body is like a theatre for our emotions. So when you experience an emotion, it's like it's played out in your body. And then that's something you are supposed to paying attention to. And we can see this a lot in the way people talk, the way people move, they put their hand on their chest a lot when they're saying one thing.
Interviewer: Are there techniques to connect back to our body? Or is it nothing you can put your finger on?
[00:29:17] Interviewee: Yeah, in terms of techniques, it's more of an approach than a technique, I would say. One of the big things is essentially to meditate upon the body. And it sounds like a wacky concept, but it's a really simple thing to do. There is an exercise that a lot of meditation teachers teach. In this exercise you take a raisin and you chew on it. And you chew and you chew, you just pay attention to it. and when your mind wanders off, you come back to it and you keep chewing. And there is a very similar exercise that people use. Creative writing, where you take a simple act, like lighting a candle is the classic one. And you have to write four pages on lighting a candle. And you think "I lit the candle", right? That's four words. That's someone who's "I live in my body". As opposed to write "I pick up the match and I feel it, the wooden texture. I lift it from the box". And you can write all day about it. The noise of the match brushing against the thing and it's sparking and bla, bla, bla. And it's a very simple idea, it's about depth. So you can take a very, very simple thing and you just try and feel deeper and deeper into it. And there's a process I teach with this, you can take - as a simple example - lie on the floor and take a very simple movement, like rolling an arm or a leg. And pay attention and just keep doing it and keep doing it until you feel more and more layers. You feel ripples through the body. So I would cue through this process.
Interviewer: Is this something you do at this gym or do you just tell people to do it at home?
[00:31:02] Interviewee: It's a process that I would teach. But once you have done it, it's more an idea that you should then apply, in general. As an exercise it is very, very useful. And there is more to it than what I am saying. But it's a good place to start with this idea of connecting, feeling your skeleton. You can do a very simple movement and you're like "Ah okay, which muscles can I feel doing this? Can I feel my skin moving? Can I feel that as my clothes, my weight is shifting? I'm moving my wrist, do I hold my breath? Do I shift my weight around? Do I feel something else going on?". And you're becoming more connected to your body, to your musculoskeletal system. There are other things as well. There are meditations where you pay attention to your heart rate, to your breathing, all this kind of stuff. So it's a very, very big topic. And there are some things that I like and there are things that are very ancient practices, that go back a long, long way. And there are things that the contemporary neuroscience spends a lot of time looking at what's going on in the research.
Interviewer: Do you find that these ancient traditions and ways of doing things almost... Science is explaining that now, like "Oh, this is what's actually happening when you do this type of thing"?
[00:32:21] Interviewee: Oh, for sure. Yeah, 100%. There is a very big question there.
Interviewer: So it's almost as if science is taking us away from the voodoo kind of spiritual thing and saying "Hey, this is actually real stuff"?
Interviewee: Yeah, for sure.
Interviewer: It's comforting people, because if they want to break out and connect back, they don't have to think "Well, I have to get all wacky, weird and religious". It's science.
Interviewee: Science is one thing to look at. It's not the only thing to look at, it's a process.
Interviewer: A scientific learning?
[00:32:57] Interviewee: Yeah, they are learning new things and they'll go off dead alleyways. And then the tide of evidence changes, this kind of thing. So it's definitely something to look at. But you can look at all of this stuff in a much simpler way. We want to move, right? I think we've got an innate drive to move. Maybe some people have really lost it. But a lot of people, you put them in the right kind of situation and they want to move. Like people going out on a Friday night. In the UK, people go out to clubs and they dance. And maybe they drink a little bit or whatever, that's the thing. It takes that shift in what is going on in your brain, to get people to dance. But why is that there? I think there is an innate drive that people have to want to move. People do want to play sports, they do want to go on a run. And move around, all of this kind of stuff. I think what has happened, is just because of the way our society is now...
Interviewer: There are not many opportunities.
[00:34:10] Interviewee: There are not many opportunities, or they are formal, or the fun has been taken out of it. Sports can be very competitive, I think the gym in general, a lot of people aren't in the gym. In a sense, the whole gym and fitness industry is kind of a failure, really.
Interviewer: Let's talk about that. Because I want to ask you, people will go to the gym. And they will only go for like three months. And then people will drop off. Why do you think that's happening? How do we stay motivated?
[00:34:56] Interviewee: What I would do, I would question the original motivation. And if people start doing something and stop doing it, then they didn't really want to do it. That is the honest answer. They didn't really want to do it. If you really want to do something, you'll do it. You'll find a way. Those motivations are ones that I think are kind of shallow and I don't see them as so sustainable. If people want to lose weight or look good or this kind of thing. Or maybe they just have a realization of "I need to do something for my health". You're doing something for something else. You're not doing it for its own sake. Like people in the fitness industry, the last people on Earth to ask about this, the motivational memes and stuff that they share, they want to be there. I don't know why, they just love lifting some weights and doing whatever and going for a run. So they are the last people to ask. I think, for this kind of thing, the fitness industry is a big failure, actually. You've got a lot of people who aren't interested in it, from every part of the spectrum. If you can actually move, if you are a decent mover, you're not going to go to the gym and do that nonsense. You're going to be dancing, doing some parcours, doing a martial art. You're going to be doing something where you're really moving. And the idea of going into a gym and getting on a treadmill and doing some bicep curls, you just think it's nonsense. For good movers, they just look at this thing and it's just kind of dumb. You see people who can move well and they're ex-athletes and they didn't quite make it or whatever. And in the fitness industry you can be king. If you can do some elementary gymnastics, you look like the Messiah in the fitness industry. So it fails those people and then equally, it fails ordinary people or people with injuries. I think they are failed by it as well. And it goes back to the self-development aspect. They're not engaging in the process. They don't want to do it, because it's not interesting. And it's not learning anything, it's like a form of self-punishment or something like that, that only lasts so long. Really, if all you want to do is losing weight for a wedding or something like that, don't come to me. It's not what I do.
Interviewer: So you find that the people who come to you, the style of gym, the longevity, the commitment, do you think it's quite long?
[00:37:51] Interviewee: Yeah, on average, yeah. I would say, I have people who come and they do a little bit and they don't come back. Maybe it's not for them. What I do isn't for everyone. They are maybe not in the same place as me or someone has come here for whatever reason. But I've got a lot of people who have been with me for a very, very long time and have realized their journey. Again, if you've got a process, it's endless. And that's not to say "I'm going to keep taking your money forever", or that kind of thing. It's not about that. You're engaging in a process where you're constantly learning things, there is always a refinement to be made, you're learning new things. You hit a roadblock, you can't do this thing, we work around it, you learn something new. If you have a moving perspective, there's so much to learn. You'll never run out of things to do. And fitness is this really small thing. It's like a little drop in the ocean. And movement is such a bigger picture. For me, going back to [00:39:07] work, for me, what I liked finding, I liked finding something that I can't do. Something that I am rubbish at. Because to me, it's like "Ah, okay, this is a thing that I can improve". So I can't do this thing. Maybe it's my ego as well. Maybe I feel shitty that I can't do something. I am a fairly competitive kind of person. So if I can't do x, that is something that I can improve. And if I improve that thing, as a by-product, I get all of these other benefits. If we are looking at the dance world, for example, for me - I have done a lot of martial arts - beginning to dance is very interesting, because it's very similar, there are a lot of common threads between the two. Working with a partner, pushing the opponent, that kind of stuff. But I began to feel like I am very uncoordinated. It's just really interesting. So you get this bigger picture of movement. And again, when I was working in conventional gyms, looking around I would see people who had been going there for years and they were doing the same stuff for years. And I would say "Let's take you out of here and see what's the product of this". So I can't dance and how do you get on? If all I had been doing is workouts on a rowing machine and all of a sudden you have to do something different, you are maybe not going to do so well. Go rock climbing, go swim, go do all of these other things. It's a big, huge world of movement. The body, there are so many articulations and joints, there is so much to learn. That one kind of thing is really small.
Interviewer: I find that when I play touch rugby just once in a while, the next day I'm like "Oh, I didn't know I had that muscle".
[00:41:09] Interviewee: Yeah, of course. There is the thing of getting the depth of things right. And that's a tricky question. And for me, I suppose I was a product of a lot of work and I guess I was the guy for this, really. It's bringing these different things together and seeing the connection between them and making it a coherent thing. So what a lot of people are doing, they are maybe lifting weights on Monday, they go for a run on a Tuesday and do some yoga on a Wednesday. And that's good, that's a better approach than only doing one of those things. But again, for me, I've got a different purpose. So the choices that I might make within one area are formed by a bigger picture and connections to other things, if that makes sense.
Interviewer: So let's just move on to the nutrition now. Because if somebody is interested in your type of workout, let's say someone's like, "I'd like to be more flexible, more mobile. I want my body to last longer into my 50's, 60's, and 70's. So then when I'm 60 and I don't trip over and break my hip and then die. So I'd be interested in this type of thing, what do you suggest? Or maybe you don't have suggestions, about diets and nutrition?
[00:42:37] Interviewee: It's really, really important. I would go beyond nutrition. Nutrition and movement are part of a bigger thing, which is our lifestyle. Nutrition is similar to fitness in a way, it's a very tricky area. The nutrition world especially, with books in the shops and the internet, it's very tribal. When we spoke, you mentioned keto or vegan, these are very tribal things.
Interviewer: Because they are trying to build an industry about it, maybe?
[00:43:26] Interviewee: Yeah, I think that's a big thing. Looking from a psychological perspective, diet is something that people might use to construct their identity. It's like "I'm a this. I'm a that". It's very common to see certain kinds of exercise to go hand in hand with certain kinds of diet. Like it's very popular and there are some popular connections there. But as opposed to where to start with nutrition, there are details, right? In everything. But I think the big places to start, I think there are two or three big things to look at. Starting places for how you are going to eat. One of the first things would be essentially, what I would call the ancestral or evolutionary perspective on eating. Or a historical look at eating. People nowadays come out of the supermarket with trolleys full of foods. Well, food...
Interviewer: Packaged, processed?
[00:44:40] Interviewee: Yeah, packaged products. So what they've done is, they've got food products. A hundred years ago, those products wouldn't exist. And we're looking at a risk thing here. For x thousands of years, we've been eating these things called 'food produce' and the last little while we've been eating these products. And if you are eating something that doesn't have a long history, you are kind of taking a chance with it. They say it's safe.
Interviewer: But they are just saying that, right?
[00:45:14] Interviewee: Yeah, I think it's a very powerful perspective, looking at risk and to have a historical perspective. There have been some horrible, horrible things. In medicine, for example, fertilizers, you go back to the 50's with the DDT. Thalidomide. There have been these real horror stories. There are certain things that concern me. I was listening to someone the other day, who was talking about GMO. I really want to get into a specific thing about GMO itself. But one of the interesting things, there was a study done on GMO grains and they fed it to some mice. And they see the effects in the third generation.
Interviewer: So it's not immediate?
[00:46:07] Interviewee: Not immediate, no. The first generation that had this GMO stuff were fine, they were happy as Larry. And you only see the effects after three generations, most of them were infertile or something like this. A big problem. I think that's a very powerful filter, look at things that come from nature and avoid things that don't. It's a simple filter. It's not 100% right or wrong.
Interviewer: Sometimes when you eat too often, you might be a little bit too full to do this type of thing. Do you suggest intermittent fasting as well? Some people have strict times when they eat and they don't eat in between. Do you suggest that?
[00:46:54] Interviewee: No, again, this is one of the dietary tribes, you've got 16-8 and warrior and all of this kind of stuff. There are lots of different kinds of approaches to intermittent fasting. I think a lot people feel a lot of benefits from intermittent fasting. Most of the benefits are simply digestive. You are giving the digestive system a bit of a break. People broadly feel better, but I think there are some big problems with that. A lot of people who are doing intermittent fasting - and I would actually say the same thing, when I mentioned the ancestral, primal, historical approach in nutrition, evolutionary - that often gets tied in with some other things that I don't think are particularly great. Low carb, for example. Whether it is Atkins, whether it is keto. I kind of put low carb and intermittent fasting together. I don't think they are a good idea. And we'll get into some fairly technical reasons why.
Interviewer: We could probably talk about that on the next episode.
[00:48:12] Interviewee: Yeah, maybe another time. Yeah, I don't think it's a great idea. It's something to play with, for sure. It actually goes back to my second point that I would make in terms of nutrition. And it is the connection with the body. And the connection should also be with our food, for example. Literally like holding your food, making it yourself with your hands. It gives you a sense of the quantities you are eating. Say you had to pick all your food, if you literally had to go and get it, you probably wouldn't overeat. Because you'd be like "Okay, I've got enough food now, I can carry on". It just doesn't make sense, to spend more energy than you are getting from your food. So I think there's something about the embodied connection with the food. A big thing I think, is a whole picture of stress and energy. And this is another kind of thing, very basic evolutionary psychology. Every faculty on our mind exists for a reason. It has a history. Like cravings for example. Why do we have cravings? Why do we think, "Oh man, I really like this one thing”? And sometimes you got a taste for something "I want something a little bit salty" or "I want something a bit sweet" or this kind of thing. And I think that those exist for a reason and they're not to be ignored.
Interviewer: So our body needs that at the time?
[00:49:43] Interviewee: Precisely. I think that is something not to be ignored and it's something to embrace and look it at it and go "Ah, this is what my body needs right now. And I am going to eat that. But I am going to do it in a smart way". So I am not going to do something, maybe have some health problems, like pig out on x, y, z. And it just goes back to your connection with your body. I think stress is a huge thing. There is a very interesting connection of studies that look at stress and sugars. It turns out that sucrose brings down our stress hormones. There are some studies, physiology shows this. And then there is a theory, essentially, most people are pretty stressed and this is product of our current environment. You have to drive to work, you have a boss that you hate but you have to make money to pay the mortgage. All of this kind of stuff. So people are pretty stressed and the paper title was "Self-medication by sucrose". There was a journal article on this. And the theory is that we learned to bring our stress levels down by ingesting sweet things. And then people go and do this and they overdo it and they get into a cycle: "This is bad for me, I've done something bad, I've sinned".
Interviewer: And then they are down on themselves.
[00:51:14] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. And you can end up in some bad places with that, versus accepting it and looking at what you're doing and being like "Okay, this is what I need, now I am going to eat something that is going to nourish me". One of the things I learned in psychology is the power of an important metaphor. Metaphor in our language is this really, really important thing. Things like clean eating, this is a moral metaphor. There is a dirty cheat or a dirty liar, disgust is very tied in with morality. And this goes back to the whole embodied kind of thing. All of our thoughts are rooted in physical experience and inside of mental scaffolding, we're into intellect and body commission here, that we actually think through the body. So, a good example of this, someone's a warm person or they're a bit of a cold person, our situation is heavy, a lot of our language is using words that are connected to our physical reality. And this plays out in our bodies. I was talking about this the other day. A very, very simple experiment, they took people to the bottom of a hill. And they are asked to estimate the angle on the hill. And they had two conditions. So they will give you a sugary drink, it contains energy. And they give you an artificial sweetener. And in the condition where you have this drink that contains calories, it gives you energy, you look at the hill and people judge it as less steep. Why? Because they have resources, they have energy. When you have energy, you look at the world and it doesn't look as hard. You've got possibility. And then you have this whole thing about energy and metabolism and stress and learned helplessness. So the intermittent fasting, a similar kind of thing is, there was a study showing that people who skip breakfast spontaneously move less. So you see people getting up, walking around, fidgeting, you're moving throughout the day. And if you skip breakfast, you move less. Now you could say our calorie for calorie is the same thing. And again if your only focus is weight loss for example, you're going to have a very myopic view on nutrition and you're going to be lacking in energy and the world is going to look like hard work.
Interviewer: And you're going to give up in the end.
[00:53:50] Interviewee: You're going to give up. There are bigger picture things going on there. The other part of that study, it was very interesting, is through social support. They did the same kind of thing, they were at the bottom of the hill and if you are on your own, you think the hill is steeper than if you are with a friend. So it's about this embodied sense of resources. If you're running up a hill and you trip over and you fall, you've got your friend to help you up. But we really think in those kinds of ways. And there is a whole body of work there, that I think a lot of people are ignorant of. And again, it's very simple, the underlying message is to pay attention to your intuition, feel your body. It's a very simple message. But there's a lot of fairly hard science backing it up.
Interviewer: So habits, daily habits. Just give us the Jon Nicholson habits, when he wakes up, when he goes to bed routine. If it's not the same every day, just give us a flavour of what you do? Is there something that you do every day?
[00:54:59] Interviewee: So, I'm going to give you the horrible answer: Habits are our compulsion. And you don't want to build in habits, unless you need to. That was a bad answer. Spontaneity is a big thing lacking. With aging, what people tend to do as they age, they become more and more routine, they are doing the same things. So I think that habit thing, there's a little bit of a flip side to that. But to answer your question, the number one thing that I do every day, or try to do every day, is to simply lie on the floor. It's a very simple thing. Flat hard floor, rug or something and I just lie on the floor, close my eyes and connect to my body. Like the stuff that we talking about. And I start from there. And why I'm doing that, I kind of feel what's going on and this takes time to get there, but I can feel "Ah, I've got some tension here", or "I'm feeling stiff here", this kind of thing. And I just check in with myself. Maybe I go off into more of a kind of a meditation. Maybe I start to move a little bit and maybe I'm like, "Man, do you know what I need to do? I need to get up and really move and do something more physical and more full on". But that's the number one thing I would say. A good place to start, connect your mind and body, lie on the floor.
Interviewer: Part of the journey, isn't it?
[00:56:35] Interviewee: Yeah. Part of the journey. Normally my cat comes over and jumps on me. That's great. I would say that's a big thing. And obviously from there, if you've got musculoskeletal issues that you need to address, you probably need to be doing that every day. There's some mobility work. There are things we should be doing every day anyway. You should make sure you move your body through a full range of motion all the time. Sit down and kneel, roll around, hang from something. We should be moving, we should be walking, all that kind of stuff. And there's a time to be structured about it. There is a time to use formal tools to do a specific stretch, to do some strength training, to do some very structured work. There's time for that where you say, "Right, I've got this goal, I want to achieve this thing, I've got this problem I need to do for me every day. I need to spend 10 minutes doing x, y, z". Of course that's a thing. But the biggest thing is just move more, live in your body.
Interviewer: Jon, our listeners are predominantly in their 20's, 30's and 40's. What advice would you give them - as a parting shot to sum it all up - this is what you should really focus on? Because they are not going to be able to focus on everything we've said today. But some key take-away nuggets for those different age groups. If it's all the same, it's fine. What's your nugget?
[00:58:18] Interviewee: I am going to give two answers. First of all, I am going to dismiss the question and say that age is just a number. And that's a corny way of saying it. There are some physical realities. But if you're engaging with the process of working with your body and your movement, there's no end to improvement. You should always be learning new abilities, new skills. You may not be improving certain kinds of psychical characteristics. But you can always be engaging with the process. And not box yourself into age as a kind of thing like "I'm 40 now, I shouldn't be doing this". Well guess what, you just made yourself 40. You just put yourself in that box and there's only one way from there, which is to climb. One of the things with aging is, if you look at everything that increases with age and try to decrease it, you'll be anti-aging. And the same thing, if you look at everything that decreases with age and try to increase it, that's the other part of an anti-age strategy. And a very obvious example of that is one's movement repertoire. So traditionally, you look at someone, a young kid and they are jumping around and bouncing around and playing around. And then someone in their 40's, they are wearing jeans that are too tight and a jacket. And they can barely move. They're only going one way and that's less and less and less, and they're doing less and less and less and less. And eventually, you're doing nothing. And that's when you die. People give up a sport or they give up this or they stop doing that or "I'm older now", this kind of thing. You're either growing or you're shrinking, as far as I'm concerned. So that is my first answer. For the 20-year-olds, it should be fairly simple, keep moving. Play, do lots of different things. Play sports, move around, all this kind of stuff. Although, I've had some 20-year-olds through the door whose body is literally a disaster. I mean, just insane. It is really sad to see. I think that the impact of things like computer games, kids that are spending a lot of time indoors and not moving. And it's kind of shocking to see, I think, 20-year-olds whose bodies are really in a bad place.
Interviewer: Almost like 40, 50-year-old bodies.
[01:00:50] Interviewee: Yeah, exactly. Really big problems. But they can work on it, that's fine. 30-year-olds, one thing I would say to probably most 30-year-olds, make sure that what you're doing is giving you more than it's taking from you. But you're probably not going to hammer your body in the same way that you could in your 20's. I see that kind of people in that age group probably hammering things a little bit too much. Start to think about being a bit smarter in your training, essentially. 40-year-olds, that's the best place to be, right? The 40-year-olds are the best. Because there's no ego. You've lost whatever competition that you wanted to. That kind of competitive thing is gone. So then you're in a place to really change yourself and move forward and develop your movement, develop your body. You're probably not going to try and squat more than the brother next to you and screw your back up. You're a bit smarter and wiser by then. So the 40-year-olds, just bear in mind that it's all possible, that you can change your body, you can move, you can improve. And if you have growth mindset and you have the right approach, there's definitely no reason at all a 40-year-old shouldn't be moving really well.
Interviewer: Jon, I'm intrigued. How old are you?
Interviewee: Oh dear, this is the million-dollar question. I'm actually 40 this year.
Interviewer: The big four zero.
[01:02:31] Interviewee: It's pretty funny, literally, so many times people have been like, "Yeah, you know, when you get to my age...". There are certain things that for a long time, I guess, health and lifestyle wise that I've done for a long time, that probably helped. I haven't drunk alcohol in decades. And I've been pretty physically active. And diet, nutrition and that kind of stuff. I was a vegetarian for quite a long time and I think that was probably a positive thing. And then that's kind of changed. But it has been a big thing for a long time. Just paying attention to nutrition, that kind of thing. Obviously not smoking. Yeah, still alive.
Interviewer: Jon Nicholson, it's been great having you on the Lifeshot.
Interviewee: Cool, wicked.
Interviewer: Thanks mate.
I speak to Dr Alex Archibald from the Emmanuel College, Cambridge University about Chemical Kinetics. A term that many of us may not have heard of, but they are involved in making better batteries that last longer and are more efficient and better for the environment. They do this by the research done into the rate of chemical reactions, which is what chemical kinetics is. Even medicine is related to this topic, such as how quick does the medicine take to have an affect on your body. In fact all aspects of life are relatable to chemical kinetics. One of the research topics that Dr Alex is doing is into air quality, and they see how climate change is affecting our air, and how our air is affecting climate change. Listen into the conversation I have with Dr Alex and gain a better insight into the world of cutting edge research and development
Health: Joyce Crawford has a social walking group, on which they talk regular walks in Britain's most beautiful and serene places. In this episode she tells us how invigorating a walk in nature can be, and it helps people to socialise and get well. Not all of us can run or do vigorous exercise but most of us can walk, increase your number of steps each day and start to feel alive
Transcription:
Interviewer: Joyce, welcome to LifeShot.
Interviewee: Thanks, Clint.
Interviewer: How are you today?
Interviewee: I'm good, thank you.
Interviewer: Very good. We've got Joyce Crawford, who runs 'Joyce Weekly Walks', a social walking club. You've done the London marathon, you've done the Centurions1911, which is an interesting one, it's a walk for amateur athletes who have walked 100 miles within 24 hours in a judged race. So that's quite an achievement. Joyce, it's good to have you on the show. And today, we want to talk about walking, how people get something out of it, what they get out of it, how important is it to be outdoors and to be active and to move? So we'll talk about that today. I was just reading up about walking and how it can put you into an elevated state of a different mindset. Or in an altered state of consciousness. And I mentioned a person called Sri Chinmoy, who started a marathon in 1977 and the races are still going on today and people experience hallucinations. So I wanted to ask if you've ever experienced something like that or something similar in your walks?
[00:01:24] Interviewee: Sleep deprivation does do some mind-altering things. It really does. No, I don't think I've ever had hallucinations. You do become locked into a zone that's not quite the real world. That's for sure. And your mind plays tricks on you as well. You won't give up way before your body will actually give up. So you need to be the master of your mind, I believe, in those situations. And I am pretty good at that. I am pretty good at talking myself out of some negativity, when I am doing a race or a competition. But hallucinations, no. Delirious, you could become delirious if you don't watch the amount of hydration you are taking on. That's a side effect of that, very, very quickly. And you can't run out of energy either, otherwise that does some mind-altering things to you as well.
Interviewer: You said you tell your mind to get rid of negative thoughts. That's an interesting thing you said, because it's almost like you're telling yourself something. Almost two things going on there. One thing is telling the other. How do you see that?
[00:02:47] Interviewee: What you think and say to yourself affects how you feel about something. So you need to be in charge of what you are thinking, because then you generate the feeling. Does that make sense? If your body is feeling worn out and tired, if I continually allude to "I'm tired, I've had enough", then that's exactly how I continue to feel. If I get on top of that and tell myself "I can do it, I can beat it", it's all in the mind, that really does alter things and it puts a different perspective on it. And you find that you can just re-energize yourself that way, that's for sure. You can do impossible things. I would never have done that 24-hour, 100-mile race if I didn't train my mind to do that. Endurance is... I don't think everyone can do it. Especially in a race or a situation where it's very repetitive, very boring. And you are doing the same thing over and over again. That's a real struggle with the mind. You have to master that.
Interviewer: Was that race around a track?
[00:03:55] Interviewee: It wasn't around a track, it was on a two-mile-loop, because it had to be measured, and it had to have judged officials at various points. There were always four officials out on the route to check that you weren't running it and that you were race-walking it. That's 50 times around there. So immediately, you start to think "Do I count up to 50 laps? Do I count down to zero?", that's what goes through your head.
Interviewer: How did you feel at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning? Was it 24 hours, so you...?
[00:04:30] Interviewee: Yeah, it started at midday on a Saturday and it went through until midday on a Sunday. And I finished with just about 17 minutes to go. I really enjoyed seeing the sunset. I enjoyed seeing the moon rise. And I enjoyed seeing the sunrise.
Interviewer: It was a clear night?
[00:04:48] Interviewee: It was a beautiful night. It was a cold night. But I loved the dawn. And the dawn comes before the sunrise. And it can come very, very early. It can be 3:30 in the morning, 4:00 in the morning and the sky changes colour. And that just motivates you. So there weren't many dark hours, really.
Interviewer: Was it during the Summer time or Spring?
[00:05:11] Interviewee: It was August, mid-August. And I had a great team of supporters that came and there wasn't any time when I didn't see someone out on the course. They would have a camp, because I could only be fed in a certain area of the two-mile-loop.
Interviewer: You could stop?
[00:05:30] Interviewee: I could stop. And some people can build in enough time to have a proper rest. But I didn't have that ability to go that fast and build in any extra time for myself. So within those 24 hours, you have to do all of your housekeeping things and all of your food. And you are allowed to be handed food, but you are not allowed to have anyone walk beside you. Because that's considered pacing.
Interviewer: That is interesting, where you said that there was always someone there, egging you on, encouraging you.
Interviewee: Yes, always.
Interviewer: I am interested in that. How does that invigorate a person to have a sense of others around?
[00:06:06] Interviewee: Well, on a two-mile-loop, you are always 25 minutes away before you see the next person. And because those people changed all the time, that motivated me to say "Who is going to be around on the next loop?". And I couldn't stop and say "Hi" to them. But I could wave them on and they were intrigued by the whole idea of people doing that for 24 hours. And so, people would come for an hour, they had seen me twice. They had seen a whole load of other people as well. But to me, that is quite something, isn't it?
Interviewer: You live in Mildenhall, which is considered countryside, to an extent. And we've got the Mildenhall Forest, Thetford Forest. Obviously, you've walked in the Brandon Forest and such. What is the place where you've walked where you feel most inspired?
[00:07:08] Interviewee: I did an interview last week for a local magazine in Suffolk, about the Suffolk Walking Festival, which I contribute to quite a bit. And the guy that has that up works for Suffolk County Council and he works for Green Access Department. So we want to get people out into the countryside. And one of his questions was where I like to walk. And I love [00:07:36], which is about 10 miles away. Because it has the pine forest there. It has the river Ouse, I love walking by water. I think a lot of people do. I think they find that really peaceful and tranquil. And it has a railway line. And I love a train going through a walk. I love a towpath that runs alongside a canal. There is also a lot of wildlife by a river. More perhaps than in a forest.
Interviewer: Do you walk just by yourself?
[00:08:13] Interviewee: No, I don't. No, I'm not very brave when it comes to that. I do very little walking by myself outside of a town or a city. So I can go to Cambridge and walk for miles and miles, because I feel safe there. But I don't go alone into the forest at all, no.
Interviewer: Do you suggest that others do walks by themselves or is it just a personal thing, if you feel safe or not?
[00:08:43] Interviewee: A lot of people take a dog with them or walk with their dog. And that brings a sense of security. These days, we all carry phones with us. But I do like to go for a walk without a phone. I just don't want the distraction. I do just want to disconnect. So for me, I would cycle solo. But you just have to weigh those risks up for yourself, don't you?
Interviewer: How difficult is it to get people go on a walk with you? Is it not difficult, or is it difficult?
[00:09:15] Interviewee: It's not difficult at all. I think because I can tempt people with a walk that is the right distance for them with a coffee stop. With somewhere which they wish to explore, that they haven't thought of.
Interviewer: Do you have a mixture of people coming or do they come to your club walks?
[00:09:42] Interviewee: Oh, that's interesting. Just last week, I did a walk, I'd grade it as a 10 out of 10 walk. It was perfection, I thought. And I had 19 people come along with varying abilities. But I e-mailed out to the group or used some social media and I told them exactly what's expected. They always want to know the length of the walk, they always want to know if there is a coffee stop or where we stop for lunch and the gradient, etcetera. So I think I give them plenty of information before they come on a walk, so they know whether they can do it. And some people choose to challenge themselves. So I had a lady who had never walked 9 miles before and she wanted to walk 9 miles. And she got round and she has written to me and said "I'm so pleased with myself, that I was able to do something I had never done before". And this Friday, I happen to be doing a 10-mile walk. Will she come, will she not, I don't know.
Interviewer: I am thinking about the mental benefits of doing walks out in nature. In your walking club, are there people who are - maybe they don't say it to you - are dealing with some mental things and this helps them? Do you think that walking out in nature does help with mental problems or situations?
[00:11:12] Interviewee: Oh, it definitely does. It's a difficult thing to quantify and measure, because it is different for everybody. But I always smile and say "There are no mirrors in the country". You are never checking your reflection. So if you go into town, you've got shop fronts and glass and mirrors. There is always that tendency to just check if your hair looks okay. But in the countryside, there are no mirrors and so there are no distractions like that. I find that most people walk with their phones on silent. I very rarely hear a phone go off at all. And I know that some people have lost as well, and they are grieving. And they are at different points in their lives. And it helps being with people that not necessarily will become your best friend, but they are the right person on that day. And often the walk is the right walk for that day as well for them.
Interviewer: I read a book by a Franciscan monk, Richard Rohr. And he talks about going on walks with the people who I suppose are in his church or whatever it is. But they walk behind each other and in silence. Have you ever heard of anything like that?
[00:12:34] Interviewee: No. Personally, that is not my favorite way of walking. The processional walking. I love a really wide field edge where you can walk through abreast. That's my kind of walking, where everyone's interacting and chipping in and joking and smiling and pointing things out.
Interviewer: You prefer the social side of walking.
[00:13:01] Interviewee: I do. I prefer pointing things out to people, that they wouldn't be tuned in. So I can hear a buzzard, the noise of a buzzard and immediately, my head's upwards and finding that buzzard and pointing it out. And last week, it was pointing out a red kite. Well, they are becoming more familiar, but people were quite interested in seeing a red kite and a little bit of bird song. I am not very good at that, I admire people that know birds just from their song. But it's good to keep your eyes open for things like that. Like hares at the moment, they are prevalent.
Interviewer: At this time of the year?
Interviewee: Very much so. I am always looking for hare.
Interviewer: In the Spring time?
Interviewee: Yes. And deer.
Interviewer: Must be a beautiful time to walk.
[00:13:52] Interviewee: Oh, if I could walk solidly for the next three weeks, every day, I would not be happier. I lap up the Spring, the greenery. It's a different green at the moment, isn't it? The fields are really virgin, we have fields around here, oil seeds, that are just turning yellow.
Interviewer: All the colours.
Interviewee: Yeah, the patchwork is just lovely, really nice.
Interviewer: We'll talk about your diet. I've been listening to a lot of different things about nutrition and sports and performance. So you've been on this Centurion 1911, so the 24-hour race, walking 100 miles. Now, you don't eat meat per se, you eat fish sometimes. Did that diet hamper your endurance or do you think that eating a mostly vegetarian diet is okay for your performance?
[00:14:51] Interviewee: That's a really interesting question. I was iron deficient for many years. And I worried that because I wasn't eating meat, that that was the cause of it. But I was told that wasn't the cause of it. I just couldn't absorb some nutrients and some vitamins.
Interviewer: Because of your body or because of the food?
[00:15:10] Interviewee: No, just because of my body. So I had to take some vitamins for that. But I haven't been iron deficient for a while now. And that's something you need to get checked out, if you are doing a lot of sport, you do need to make sure that your B12 and your ferritin levels are good. I'm not scared of food groups. I'm not someone that cuts carbs out, at all. My body actually works really well with carbs. And sometimes very heavy carbs. So bread works really well for me. I can digest it well. I can digest it well when I am walking. I had to try lots of different variations. I find that my stomach is quite hardy. So for me, on the Centurion, I had to make sure that I got enough salt in, because I need quite a lot of salt. And I needed the sweet stuff and the savoury. So within 24 hours, you have to have all of those elements in your food. Because otherwise, it's very bland, very boring. And you quickly shut down and don't want to eat. But you need to eat, because you need to get to the end.
Interviewer: Was the salt for your cramping?
[00:16:34] Interviewee: Yeah, it was for the cramping. So I would make bread rolls with cheese in them. But then I would put jam in them as well. So I would have the carbs, the fat, the protein and the sweet.
Interviewer: Oh, yeah, I like a little cheese and jam.
[00:16:47] Interviewee: And you probably heard people say that normally they wouldn't think of drinking Coca Cola. But when you are racing that long, Coca Cola is just amazing. It has to be flat, you can't have the bubbles in it. But it gets you round. It really does. The caffeine, the sugar, it just tastes like liquid gold, it really does!
Interviewer: So your choice on not eating red meat and other meats except fish, is that a bio-conscious decision? Or is it more "I just don't like the taste"?
[00:17:24] Interviewee: It was a decision I made when I was about 19. And I started comparing how America prepared their chickens, fed their chickens, grew their chickens and how we did it here. And I remember going to America and someone said to me "If you just pull back a chicken's skin, you'll smell fish food, because that's one of their elements of feeding them". And I did, I tried their chicken, our chicken, their beef and our beef. And many years ago, there wasn't this organic movement with meat or free-range. And certainly at 19, I couldn't afford that. So I cut those food groups out. And the only vegetarian food you got out and about was an omelette or a jacket potato. And now, it has grown into quite a movement, hasn't it?
Interviewer: So at first, you found that it was difficult to find food to eat.
[00:18:23] Interviewee: Yes, it really was. So you just cook at home and adept. But these days, vegetarianism, veganism is quite a movement, really. And a movement for morals, for ethics, for the environment. All sorts. But mine was, it was my choice. I didn't mind other people eating meat. I prepared meat for other people. But I didn't like the way they pumped the animals full of hormones and antibiotics.
Interviewer: So that was the main decision?
Interviewee: Yeah, it was, I think.
Interviewer: Are you proponent of that kind of diet for people more widely nowadays? Not necessarily exactly yours, but less meat?
Interviewee: That's interesting. I don't give it an awful lot of thought. I think less red meat, definitely.
Interviewer: And that's for people who eat red meat every day? They should eat less red meat? If you eat it once a week?
[00:19:35] Interviewee: I don't have a problem with people eating burgers or steak. Things like that. I think we have to be careful about how much bacon and how many nitrates we are putting into our body.
Interviewer: So it sounds like you don't want the hormones, you want to eat natural food, whole foods. Foods that are good for your body. Foods that don't hurt the body. So if people are making those choices, then they are making better choices?
Interviewee: Yes, there is nothing better than seeds and nuts and fruits. They're great. They feed the mind.
Interviewer: So what sorts of people go on walks with you, do you have younger people coming? Young parents, or is it more the older generation?
Interviewee: No, it's [00:20:22] people. So I'm 51, it would be people that have taken early retirement. They are maybe in their 50's. And older. I would say, I would say we are in perhaps the 10-year span between 50 and 60, most of us.
Interviewer: Although, there are times also when you have some young people with you? I've walked with you New Year’s Day.
[00:20:50] Interviewee: Yeah, so my husband and I, we've done a New Year’s Day walk for the last ten years, easily.
Interviewer: It's very popular.
[00:20:58] Interviewee: It is popular. It's just a day of getting together. And you can't say 'Hello' to everyone. There are too many people. Last year we had over 80 people on the walk. And we had a simple three mile walk down to the local pub. The local pub made some sandwiches for us. There were lots of dogs on the walk, lots of strollers. It was a walk for everyone. And for people that didn't want to do more than three miles, then there was the option of driving back from the pub and they got a three mile walk in with some friends.
Interviewer: So it's three miles there and three miles back?
[00:21:39] Interviewee: Yes, it was 6 miles. But when you are with people, the time goes quickly. You're not adding up, until your body starts aching and your feet feel slapped on the bottoms. You can walk for a quite a while without thinking about it.
Interviewer: Do you have big walks like that during the year as well, that people attend? Like maybe Easter?
[00:22:03] Interviewee: We have done Easter walks. We don't have anything planned for this Easter. I have a walk happening in May, which is along a river. And there is also a railway running along the riverside as well. So people can opt to have five miles or eight miles or three miles. And we have a breakfast stop and there is a pub at the end. And it's a nice walk.
Interviewer: It sounds like you are too easy on your walkers.
Interviewee: I am too easy.
Interviewer: "You can stop at three!". [laughs] "Come on, guys, all the way until eight miles!"
[00:22:40] Interviewee: I know! Not many do. They do feel bad about opting out. But if you have a young family and they all want to bring their little kids, you don't want to carry them for eight miles. But three miles is good. And they get to ride on the train back. It's good.
Interviewer: I might come to that one.
Interviewee: You might, you know the area well.
Interviewer: Do I?
Interviewee: Bishop's Stortford.
Interviewer: Oh, okay.
Interviewee: That's where we start.
Interviewer: It's a lovely area.
Interviewee: Yeah, it's lovely. Plays right down in the river leap, which goes to the Thames in London.
Interviewer: I shall see you there. What advice do you give people on where to focus their attention when they are walking? Is it more a social walk or do you think they should focus on something in particular?
[00:23:30] Interviewee: That is interesting. You can put the most interesting walk on, if somebody has found someone to talk to, they will literally walk with their heads down, chatting. It amuses me all the time, because people just want different things when they are walking. People just want the exercise or the social side is really big. And so often, people just walk with their heads down. And I try to elevate them, very often I'll stop the group and we'll do a panoramic, because it's just beautiful. I've brought them up, we've ascended, so we can get a real good view over a valley.
Interviewer: And then people's attention breaks on that point on whatever they were doing.
Interviewee: Yeah. They affirm that it's a lovely view.
Interviewer: "Oh yes, lovely. Look at that!"
Interviewee: Yeah. And "Aren't we lucky?", and then they resume their conversations. But that gives me joy as well.
Interviewer: To see people enjoying that time, gives you joy as well?
[00:24:27] Interviewee: Of course. Yeah, it does. It's like they found kindred spirits. And I was walking with a lady the other day. And she lost her husband about three and a half years previous. And she wasn't having a good day. And I was really happy to be a listening ear. Just to affirm that of course, there is no length of time that she has to finish her grieving at all. And the activity that she was doing and the route we were doing, it just brought memories back of how that would have been something they'd have loved to do together. So you have to adapt to those situations and just feel a privilege, that you were able to walk with them that day.
Interviewer: So it was an impromptu counselling session?
[00:25:18] Interviewee: It was just a really, really nice time with her. It really was. And at the end of the walk, she came on the next walk with me, three days later. She came on my walk. And she is also coming on a holiday we are doing in Spain, in October. So we are going to walk in Spain in October.
Interviewer: That must be quite different.
[00:25:43] Interviewee: Yes, it's my fourth time of going. I don't organize the walks. They are four days of walking, organized by a Dutch group. Which is strange, because the Dutch walk on the flat. But Marbella is not flat, it's very angulating, very hilly. And it is warm there.
Interviewer: Is it arid? Or is it quite green?
[00:26:04] Interviewee: No, it is lush enough. It is dominated by a beautiful mountain. And we go into that, although it is looking a little bit more dried up. But it's fun and you can choose the distance of 30 kilometres, which is 18 miles, every day for four days. That's a challenge. Or you can drop to 20 kilometres. And there are 2200 people descending on Spain for this walking festival. It's really vibrant, it's really good.
Interviewer: I can imagine that.
[00:26:37] Interviewee: Very good. And it's warm. Most temperatures are around 25, which brings a different challenge of its own as well. We have all day to do it. And the Dutch are very sociable. They bring their own bands with them.
Interviewer: Really? Music is playing while you are walking?
[00:26:53] Interviewee: No, at the end of the four days. It's really good. I am quite evangelical about it. So the last two years, I have taken about a dozen people with me. And this year looks similar or even more.
Interviewer: I'd like to go, but having a young family could be tricky. Kids walk on that?
[00:27:14] Interviewee: They don't. On the weekends, they have a little 10k for them, I think. So they do a little 6 miler. I have never seen that happen, because we've started walking earlier in the day, just to try and get some cooler temperatures.
Interviewer: Wow, so you start early, when it's cool and by midday you are like "Phew!".
[00:27:33] Interviewee: We start about 8:30 and we try to finish around 2:30. So we probably have about 6 hours of walking a day. But we go [00:27:43], so you can stop for a coffee anytime, ice creams. But I quite like getting back so I can swim and read and just get ready for the next day.
Interviewer: So in your walking club, has there been anybody that you have seen a drastic increase in their health from walking? Or have you not had that privilege of being with someone that long?
[00:28:10] Interviewee: I can say I definitely have. I was involved in the Stafford walking festival last year, 2018. And I led seven walks for them. And from a couple of those walks, I've been walking with the same people for a year nearly. And some of them are really challenging themselves on steps per day or miles per year, hugely so. So yes, people have really got a tiffy over the last year of walking with me. Which is great. I had some other people joining me that have just taken an early retirement. And their mileage is increasing. They are walking with other groups, such as the Ramblers. And there is a long-distance walking association locally here. They are walking with them. So sometimes, they can be walking twice or three times a week. And certainly, I am walking five times this week with people.
Interviewer: How long do you think you will be walking for until your old age? Do you plan on stopping?
[00:29:23] Interviewee: No! People say to me "Don't your hips hurt? Your knees?". Because the side line is race-walking for me as well. Which is a technical sport. But no, my hips don't hurt me and my knees hurt me. And all the time, I think I am exercising my heart, I'm keeping diabetes away. I'm keeping the risk of stroke low. I am just doing something that hopefully keeps all of that in check. There are lots of benefits to that. So I don't think I will give up until I can't.
Interviewer: [laughs] I bet you don't feel 50.
Interviewee: Oh, what does that feel like, Clint?
Interviewer: I don't know.
Interviewee: You don't know yet, do you?
Interviewer: Yeah, exactly. But do you feel young?
[00:30:18] Interviewee: I think I feel younger now than I did years ago, when I didn't do that much exercise. All my exercise was a bit more hard on my body, badminton and squash. That was a little bit more harder.
Interviewer: So how long have you been walking? Because I have known you for many years.
[00:30:35] Interviewee: Well, I have been walking long or mid-distance for close to 20 years, easily. And then in my younger age, in my teens, I did lots of aerobic sports. And then there was a period when I was iron deficient where I really didn't do very much at all. Until I got on top of that.
Interviewer: It's interesting, because I think that cardiovascular sports, they make you breath really heavy. I run once a week. And I think the reason why I limit it to once a week is because I don't want to put too much strain on my body. So I rather use strength training and mobility. So I'll keep my muscles strong and flexible and mobile. I think that's important. But walking sounds like it's a good exercise, because it doesn't put too much strain on your joints. Whereas a heavy cardiovascular - like you mentioned, squash and running and badminton - do you think it puts more of a strain on the body?
[00:31:33] Interviewee: Yes, I think it tears the muscles quicker. And the recovery can be a bit longer. So apart from walking, I still go to the gym and so some 30-minute circuit classes. But I will choose whether I want to do - as you say - a conditioning class or a strength class or one that concentrates on keeping my heart rate up high. Or I do a Pilates class.
Interviewer: So variety is good to have?
[00:32:00] Interviewee: Oh, definitely. You have to keep tricking your body. If you do something all the time, then it always knows what to expect. That muscle memory is there. So my body knows how to put one foot in front of the other. But I need to keep tricking it into other exercises. Because walking, it's good for bone density, because after 50, we can't seem to repair that bone density. But we can certainly try and halt it. There is still other body conditioning that you need to do, definitely. The flexibility, the all-round strength.
Interviewer: Are those things good for the brain as well? I heard something about doing something with the hand that is not the dominant hand, to try and help the brain to reinvigorated.
Interviewee: Right. You trick it again, you mean?
Interviewer: You just mentioned that and it sprung to mind. When you said 'trick the body'. And I am thinking, it's good for the body. But I think it's good for the mind, too.
[00:33:07] Interviewee: I think you are right. You reminded me of something I read in the paper once that said: When you are on holiday, how come the days always seem longer? And it's because you are doing different things. And it is this trickery that the days are longer, because the brain is suddenly engaging in different activities. And the same day-to-day, when it is doing the same thing, the days just seem shorter. But on holiday, the routine is mixed up, you are doing different things and that is reinvigorating. That's good. That's why retirement sounds good, doesn't it? Doing different things every day and not keeping it in a routine. But certainly, when you are exercising, the oxygen circulating is mentally a really, very good thing.
Interviewer: For your body and your mind, the brain.
Interviewee: Absolutely.
Interviewer: We'll go onto something slightly different. Just more personal to you. This is all personal to you, but we also try to encourage people to get out there and walk and be with nature. But I want to talk about other aspects about Joyce. Which is, you seem a very organized person. And my wife, Esther, said to me one day: "How do you keep a house clean? Don't move anything more than one if you can avoid it". So tell us about the way you do these types of things.
[00:34:35] Interviewee: I know Esther is remembering if you are washing up and wiping the dishes, you don't put the dish down and then pick it up again and move it into the cupboard. You put it straight into the cupboard. That's what she means by 'Don't move it twice'. So I look for shortcuts like that. They are called life hacks. They give you a bit more time, because you're just executing something faster. And then you can spend more time on other things.
Interviewer: Do any more come to mind? If you have little bits of advice or certain life hacks?
[00:35:12] Interviewee: Oh, I could have written you a list of life hacks. I've got some life hacks on all sorts of things. But nothing comes to mind at the moment. But am I organized? I think my personality is just wired that way. But then also, I have to try and be spontaneous at the same time. So my brain is always going to "What are we doing Friday? What are we doing Saturday? What are we doing Sunday?" And sometimes, that doesn't leave enough time for being spontaneous. So there is a balance there, it's nice to be organized but it's really nice to do something on the spur of the moment as well.
Interviewer: So that's putting yourself back and saying "Just be in this moment"?
Interviewee: Yeah. And see what happens.
Interviewer: Instead of worrying about what's happening in the future.
[00:36:10] Interviewee: Yes. Don't try and keep orchestrating things that you are in control of. Let someone else bring up something. Otherwise you will never... If someone does say "Would you like to come over to barbecue?", you already have to say "Oh, we already promised here" or "We already have people coming around". You just have to keep it a little fluid.
Interviewer: Freer. So what are you passionate about at the moment and why?
Interviewee: What am I passionate about? Interesting question.
Interviewer: Something that has recently come up that you have been thinking about?
[00:36:52] Interviewee: I am always planning new walks. I've always got an ordnance survey map somewhere open or photocopied and ready to do a new route. I am involved in a young adult’s group at our church, which I am passionate about. Seeing them connect with God and growing in their faith. I am passionate about that. I am passionate about family members. Cooking. Reading. I set myself a goal to read about 20 books this year.
Interviewer: 20 books in a year?
[00:37:31] Interviewee: Yeah, all of the books that you started and never finished. I won't buy another book until I finished the 20 that are on that book list. And I've got through four at the moment. And I am reading the bible in a year again, which takes some commitment.
Interviewer: Every day you are going to read something?
Interviewee: Yeah, I do. And some texts around it, some commentary around it.
Interviewer: So I am going to talk about the young people that you have. They come to your house every Friday. You obviously talk about a range of different topics. What do you think they are struggling with the most at the moment?
[00:38:11] Interviewee: Ah, that's interesting. So the young adult’s group that we facilitate, they are aged between 19 and 24. It's a group that years ago, perhaps many of them would have been married and settled. But these days, they can't afford to leave home. Lots of them go to uni and are starting on a career path. So everything shifted a little bit.
Interviewer: So they are younger for longer?
[00:38:40] Interviewee: Yes, I think they are. We address our group, we address life schools with them, really. We hit some hard subjects like self-harming, eating disorders, pornography, things that we don't expose. We don't want to know their trials. But we want to put in some ways to help them out with things like that. And ways to get some help. But they struggle with the distraction of social media. And the fact that everything seems to be bite size and soundbites all the time. And we find it really difficult to stay on topic for 10 minutes, 20 minutes without changing or checking something or looking elsewhere. They struggle with self-image. They struggle with comparisons. They struggle with not looking perfect all the time. They struggle with low self-esteem. And we are there to just put them back online, really. I always say "Nobody died of a big head". I just keep complimenting them. Genuinely, authentically, tell them what they are good at. Give them hope.
Interviewer: Just hearing what you are saying about social media and always being connected to that virtual world, being disconnected from that for a while, just going out into nature. They do like going on camps, don't they? If they were given the opportunity, I am sure they would say "Yes, let's go!".
[00:40:34] Interviewee: Yeah, maybe. They like leaders. In our group, we don't have any particular one person that leads. Whereas in previous groups, I've seen people that lead and they lead well. They seem to gather people to them and they seem to just take people along with their ideas. And at the moment, we don't quite have anyone that does that. But if you put an idea out there, they will go along with it. But they won't generate that idea themselves. Just even if we are going out to eat somewhere. I find that all quite interesting. So I planned something for Good Friday for our group. We are going to a concert type service in Barry. And we put the idea that we are going to eat out beforehand. And of course, they are all up for that. So would they benefit being disconnected? We have one person in the group, he is definitely disconnected and doesn't feel like they are missing out at all.
Interviewer: So they don't have a big social media aspect in their life?
[00:41:40] Interviewee: No, they don't have a platform at all.
Interviewer: They choose not to?
Interviewee: They chose not to for a while. And I asked them, "Are you missing out?", and they say "No". How freeing, I really admire them.
Interviewer: There are some beneficially aspects to social media. But then there are the negative parts of it as well. You become dependent on it.
Interviewee: There are some really beneficial aspects to it, of course. But these days, considering we are so connected, we are actually quite disconnected as well.
Interviewer: At the same time, which is really odd.
Interviewee: Yeah, "Let's pick our phone up". What? "To write a letter". What?
Interviewer: Yeah, those things are of the past. The world we see at the moment, with Brexit going on and there seems to be a bit of division. And hate seems to be a little bit on the increase. You could see it like that. Or you could see life in a more positive way. I think sometimes we see a little bit of both. But how do you see the future playing out for us in the world? Is there hope for our young people and for humanity? And what should happen? What should change?
[00:42:53] Interviewee: There is always hope. There is hope because I am a Christian and I have a faith in Jesus, so that's my hope. You're right, there is an uprising in hate in our country. I think views are steered by our press and our news. And that disappoints me, really. I wish there was more of an independent voice. But there seems to be... I am not sure if there is more of a tolerance about some things or an intolerance. But a sway between the two things as whether we should teach tolerance or intolerance. I'm not really sure. But people are very vocal, aren't they? That's a tough one, that's a really tough one. The answer to 'Is there hope?', yes, I believe there is. I think things will look different. But then everything has to keep moving. It can't just stay still. Travel will be different. We can't stay still. If you ask me what the world will look like in 10 years’ time, I have no idea. I want it to be secure and safe for all my nieces that are growing up. I want them to have opportunity, definitely. I don't want there to be parts of the world that aren't safe to travel to. I don't want a world that focuses on greed and colour and ethnicity and religion, tribes. I don't want that at all. I want us to be respectful of each other.
Interviewer: Just to round off then, I see you have some maps here. And I am just going to ask about some advice for people who do want to go on walks, I actually thought about this myself, I live in [00:45:10], there quite a lot of farms around. You would think "Well, where would I walk?", because I don't want to walk on the road with all these cars coming past. Are there things where you can say "People have walked here and this is a route where you can walk". Are there maps like that?
[00:45:23] Interviewee: Yeah, there are maps that have defined paths and in the UK at the moment, we have some categories of a footpath which can only be walked on. It cannot be cycled on. And a broader way which will let you cycle and a horse can go down there. But a motorbike can't go down there. That comes into another category of a byway. And I'm an advocate of that we need to realign the footpath and the broader way together, so that everybody on a bike, on a horse and on foot can enjoy those paths together. I think it's a very old-fashioned idea and I can see why they did that. Because if you ask people 30-40 years ago, they would have never assumed that we weren't getting enough activity during the week, that we had to hop on a bicycle on a weekend and cycle into the country. But that's the reality, people enjoy cycling and strictly, they shouldn't cycle on a footpath. But I would like to see that law changed, so that was accessible. But my rule is, I know my footpaths and my rightful way, but unless a farmer has got 'Private: No entry', then usually, the farmer will let you walk around a field. And they will leave a field edge. And you can see whether that has been walked on or not. So a track. Unless it has 'Private: No entry' on, usually you will find that a farmer is happy for you to give that a go. And if they are not, you will soon know. You'll find most people have walked the inside of a field edge if it's running by a road.
Interviewer: Do you use maps digitally as well?
[00:47:07] Interviewee: No, I don't do it digitally. At home I do, I research online. Because there I have a bigger screen and I can move around a bit quicker. But no, I love it. This is all the information I need, on this map. So for example, we walked yesterday. And there is a trick point at the top of a small hill that we were walking in Suffolk. And immediately, I look at my [00:47:32] map. And I can see it's 103, that's the height of it. That's where we are.
Interviewer: What is a trick point, for those who don't know?
[00:47:41] Interviewee: It's a measurement of how high you are above sea level. And it's a concrete pyramid.
Interviewer: Does it have any writing on it?
Interviewee: It was in the middle of a field, so I didn't walk over to it. So I don't know that it does, actually.
Interviewer: But the map shows you where you are.
Interviewee: Yeah, it does.
Interviewer: And that it is 103 meters above sea level, that point?
[00:48:03] Interviewee: Yeah, it shows you the contours and I find that really exciting and interesting. I like to see how much descent we have done.
Interviewer: From where you started to...
Interviewee: Yeah, the highest point and the lowest point.
Interviewer: Would it surprise some people that in this flat area that we are in, that there are some elevations?
Interviewee: Yes! It would, I think.
Interviewer: But how much do you think it differs? 100 meters? 200 meters?
Interviewee: 100 meters. Up and down, several times on a walk.
Interviewer: Up and down the rolling hills.
Interviewee: Yeah, they were rolling. It was a good walk, with ruins of an old castle around here.
Interviewer: Whereabouts were you walking yesterday?
Interviewee: Yesterday, we took in five villages. We started in called Barrow and we went to Denham, which is well known for its deer estates.
Interviewer: Actually, it is hillier there than it is around here, isn't it?
[00:48:58] Interviewee: It really is, yeah. So Denham is known for its deer estates and we walked through a path with deer on either side. And sheep and lambs up to Gazeley, which is a beautiful village with a fine church. And then we went over to Moulton, which is a beautiful village with a fine church and a medieval packhorse bridge.
Interviewer: Do you guys walk into the churches sometimes?
[00:49:24] Interviewee: Yes, we do, if they are open. We did yesterday. And then we went on to the final, which is Dalham. And it has a fine church with a beautiful avenue of chestnut trees that are just budding with the sticky buds. And so I have already booked this walk to do again, as a repeat in two weeks’ time. Because the chestnuts will just be magnificent.
Interviewer: Do you have to let anybody in the area know that you are coming? Or do you just pitch up and walk?
[00:49:49] Interviewee: No, I don't need to let anyone know. Unless I was doing it as an official walk for the Suffolk county council, like I did last year. And then, it's wonderful how well-stocked the churches. They will put tea and coffee there for you.
Interviewer: If they knew you were coming?
[00:50:02] Interviewee: Yeah. If there is a toilet outside, they will open it up for you. People want to showcase churches and where they live. And yeah, it's good. People are very, very good. I have a walk this year on the Elveden estates.
Interviewer: Yes, I know where that is. By the [00:50:23] forest side?
[00:50:26] Interviewee: Yes, just before, it's on the Suffolk, Norfolk border. And I've engaged with Elveden estates and they have given me access to parts that aren't open to the public. So we have a 7-mile-walk going around there. Breakfast before, which is locally sourced. And I get very excited about that.
Interviewer: And we mentioned that you have a club: Joyce's walking club. Do you have a way for people to contact you? Is there a website?
[00:50:53] Interviewee: I do have a Facebook group called Joyce's weekly walks, that people can join and then I would add you to an e-mail group. That's what I tend to do, just e-mail around. Or people know when they are on a walk they can ask me about the next one.
Interviewer: And lastly, just a bit of advice for somebody who might want to start their own walking club in their area. How do they go about it?
[00:51:19] Interviewee: That's interesting. Because I suppose my dealings with church gives me access to a couple 100 people, straight away. I have a big friends base as well. That's difficult. I would say, there are lots of clubs out there, there must be one around there somewhere, close-by, a group.
Interviewer: So if you are in an area, there is probably a walking group?
Interviewee: Yeah, I would think so. And then you can always have a spin-off of that. Or get involved in a local walking festival if there is one near you.
Interviewer: Who would have thought? Walking festivals.
Interviewee: Yeah, they are great.
Interviewer: Joyce, it has been great having you on the LifeShot.
Interviewee: My pleasure.
Interviewer: Enjoy the walking.
Interviewee: Thank you.
Wellness: Mari is known as the Mind Architect. She has amazing insight into the mind. But as she says, she uses the brain to get to the heart. This is a must watch for anyone wishing to go to the next level and break free from the chains that hold us down. In this episode we tackle issues like anxiety, gender issues, qigong, health and nutrition and how to become a better leader. Mari is releasing her book soon, see her website for more details.
https://www.mari-williams.com/
Transcription:
Interviewer: Welcome to the LifeShot podcast. We have Mari Williams, the mind architect for us today. Mari is an ACC ICF accredited coach, who also offers mentoring and supervision in Cambridge, UK and globally. And she speaks regularly on BBC radio and holds talks and workshops. Mari, welcome to the LifeShot.
Interviewee: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
Interviewer: Thanks for having us in your place of healing. I was interested in coming across you some weeks ago, months ago. Probably two months ago, roughly. I'm interested in the things that you do for people and the different types of people that you work with. I was reading a blog on your website: Why your brain is a computer. And anxiety (or anything else) really isn't your fault. That's the title. So you say that our unconscious runs 90% of our lives. And you also say that the unconscious can be trained or taught. And anxiety is not something that you have to put up with. Can you talk to our listeners about that?
[00:02:41] Interviewee: I think the issue is what happens as we grow up, very much like computers, we come out of the box fresh and new. But like computers, we develop glitches and coding errors. And actually it is possible through a variety of techniques to go back and correct those coding errors and glitches. If you think about the brain always having a positive intention for you, what it does is, it creates behaviours that it believes will save you or rescue you from a negative experience. So let's say for example, when you are at school, if you stand up to give a presentation and the children laugh at you, or the teacher makes a terrible comment, your brain might create a behaviour of "I will never stand up in front of the class again", to save you from that experience. And that might really hinder you in your job later on. But your brain still thinks it's actually protecting you. So it's never your fault. Because it's that 90% unconscious creating that behaviour. But its intention is always to protect you. So what I do at times, I might take them back to that event and actually rewrite that event so the brain doesn't feel it needs to have that protective behaviour anymore. So in that way, you are rewriting the code or the original memory that might trigger that behaviour.
Interviewer: Sounds a bit like a computer code that you just fix, like a bug in the system.
[00:03:57] Interviewee: Yeah, I think about it like a system, that's actually a really good way of describing it. Because I think very much it is like that. Because it's not whole experiences that causes problems. It would be a snapshot experience. So you might be in a traumatic experience for years, but actually there might be just one or two parts of that that have actually caused you the issue. So if you can go back and sort out those parts, it flattens out that code and the computer runs better.
Interviewer: More from an abstract point of view, you say that our brain does that so that we don't have to put up with that. There is almost a distinction between our brain and ourselves. Do you see it like that, that there are different parts of us?
[00:04:39] Interviewee: Yes, I do. We have a 10% conscious brain, which is us, sitting and thinking "I'd like to be not angry" or "I'd like to be not anxious" or whatever it is. And then you have this bit which is just running, behaviour patterns all the time. And so, I think our responsibility and our accountability comes in that 10%. It's that bit of saying "I recognize this behaviour, it's impacting others negatively or impacting me negatively and I am going to go and do something about it". Whether you can do that yourself or if you need help, what you are actually doing then, is working with that 90%. So I do see it as two different parts of us.
Interviewer: Is it almost like we make railway lines or tracks in our brain and then we have to turn to rewrite those tracks?
[00:05:22] Interviewee: Yeah. And it's the same, if you are a dogwalker, you probably walk the same path with your dog and there is probably no grass across the field where everybody walks their dog. But maybe one day somebody says "If I go this way, it's quicker or it's more beautiful, it's a better place for me to go", you will have to struggle over that path a couple of times. But the more you walk it, that path is going to be the one that is well-worn and the grass will grow over the other one and it will diminish.
Interviewer: Is that similar to learning a new skill? Let's say I just picked up a guitar and I want to learn how to play the guitar. So that is not in my brain yet, but I start to train it and then it becomes easier.
[00:05:59] Interviewee: Yeah. So you are practicing. And one of the things in my work is - and quite similar to other people - I say to my clients "If you want to work with me, it's a very active process. You will have homework, you will have books to read. You will be practicing mental changes". So I almost give them an exercise to do. Maybe if they have a negative thought that comes into their head, they will have an exercise to do with that thought. It's very active. So what we are doing is constructing new neural pathways in their brain, having more positive behaviour. And it will overwrite the negative one. But at the same time, it's doing the work to allow the negative one to go. So I see my work differently to others, I'm not just going through one solution or one model. I am saying "It's a little bit of this and a little bit of that and a bit of this which will cure that problem". So it's a very strong resolution. Because you are not hoping that one way will work, you are going three different ways into the same problem.
Interviewer: What is a type of clientele that you would work with?
[00:07:01] Interviewee: Normally CEO professionals. CEO level people, who want to create an impact on the world. So it tends to be people who are really bright, very smart, tend to be quite successful, who have a good idea of what they want in life. Some of them have lost a bit of direction. But they have an inkling that something in their life is not working as well as it could be. And they know what that is, most of the time. So they will come in saying "I think I have a fear of failure" or "I am anxious" or "I have a lack of this". They are bright enough, they know what is the issue. Occasionally I have someone who says "I'm not motivated anymore, I'm not sure what my purpose or my future is". But most people, they are smart and they are bright. And they recognize that if they leave this area that they are struggling in, it's going to go sideways into their personal life or into their professional life. So they are very driven people. They want to make that change.
Interviewer: You mentioned this before, about the techniques that you use. Are those the hypnotherapy techniques?
[00:08:03] Interviewee: It's a mix. The hypnotherapy that I learned is very NLP-based, so it's using some modalities, it's using colours and shapes that we tend to store. Our information, like you might say "I am having a blue day" or "I am feeling a little prickly". We do it without even thinking. One of the techniques of NLP is to look at how we are using those things to hold us in place.
Interviewer: What does NLP stand for?
[00:08:29] Interviewee: It's neuro-linguistic programming. And it's the way that our brain creates patterns and structures around who we are. For me, because I have a multi-disciplinary training, I am using elements of coaching and elements of NLP and elements of cognitive therapy, which in itself pulls on gestalt-therapy, positive psychology. For me, I have taken in many different techniques into my brain, many different models, with the idea that when I am sitting with a client, what's right for that client is what will come into my mind.
Interviewer: Even as a boss, you might treat different employees in different ways, depending on who they are.
[00:09:06] Interviewee: Yes, exactly. And in fact, a client said this morning to me "Do you do the same thing with all of us?", and I said "No, there are some topics that really come up often, but the way that you would manage them are very different with everybody". Because the way it is showing in their life would be very different. So for me, having that very wide experience of models and understanding is key, because I need to step into my client's world. Not the other way around.
Interviewer: Yes, that is very intuitive.
[00:09:37] Interviewee: Yeah. And I would say intuition is a huge part of what I do.
Interviewer: I want to talk about gender neutrality. You have a blog called "Where are all the men?", and in that blog, you write "Why has being a man and being masculine become so negative?" and then later on, you say "I wish we would drop the whole issue completely and move away from biological difference to just accepting people as people". Can you just tell us about that? The reason you wrote that blog and give us some thoughts on that.
[00:10:14] Interviewee: There are two different points. I work with a lot of male clients and I feel that a lot of them are coming to me saying "I don't really understand how I fit into the world anymore. Am I allowed to hold a door open for a woman? How does my identity fit anymore?". And that has an extremely negative impact on a lot of them. That loss of self. So that was what got me thinking about it. I have five children, three of them are boys. And my youngest child, he used to wear tiaras and beads and pink. And I watched over the years as he had to drop who he was, even to the point in secondary school - he had shoulder length hair like mine - he ended up cutting his hair.
Interviewer: And he had to drop it because of his peers?
[00:11:07] Interviewee: Through the peers. And actually also through other people around him. I remember there was the father of one of his friends, he would comment on my son's long hair on the playground. So to say "You look a bit like a girl today". I just became very aware by watching his journey that my son was changing to be something that he wasn't naturally. And I just became concerned, I felt there was a heightened state of being in between men and women now. I am a very demonstrative person, I cuddle people, I touch their arms, I am very tactile. And I know the men in my life are saying to me "I would never dare to do that with a woman anymore".
Interviewer: With a woman they don't have a relationship with, or an intimate relationship with?
[00:11:51] Interviewee: Yes. Whereas I am very tactile with people straight away. So for me, I guess it resonates with me, because I love to be tactile with people, obviously in appropriate ways. And I feel sad that the men I meet in the world are feeling unable to do that. So I am very pro men being men and what is that? In fact, I am doing a conference at the end of the year, bringing men together to discuss what it is being a man. And that's why. Because I see that there's a need for it. And it's quite interesting, I've had a backlash about that from women, in managing that. But for me, we all need to be equal in the world. And actually it has been proven that when women equalize up with men, everybody is happier. So from my point of view, we can focus on bringing women up, which we do need to do, I support feminism. But we need men to feel relaxed and calm with us coming up. Because they need to help us.
Interviewer: So it's not about dragging one down to meet the other level?
Interviewee: Exactly.
Interviewer: It's about men, be a man. Be where you are, and the woman will meet that level.
[00:13:00] Interviewee: Yes, and I think the issue is, for many men, they believe the word 'feminism' is very much about females. And it's not. If you look at the true definition, it says 'equality'. That's what it literally says. And again, that is one of my missions this year, to get that message out there. I have male friends who say "I am a feminist". And what they are saying is "I want equality". But unfortunately, we have some very pro-active feminists, who are giving a wrong message about what it actually means. And the second point there is "What is it to be a man, be a man?". If your version of a man is this, then be your version of a man. And that is where the gender neutrality came in. In my family, my aunt is transgendered. And I have friends that are. And I have to say, when they first changed, I was really confused about that and didn't really understand that myself. And so, I watched a friend of mine - who was very, very active in Australia - and read her blogs. And over a two-year process, my own understanding and education changed around that. I guess my point of view, it's an educated view, isn't it sad that we can't just be us? And why do we need to have labels of "I'm gender-neutral" or "I'm heterosexual" or "I'm gay" or boy, girl, why do we need any of that? Why can't you just be Clint and I am Mari and we just accept each other as we are? That's what I'd like to see.
Interviewer: The real value to the world when we are just ourselves?
Interviewee: Exactly.
Interviewer: Quirky as we are.
[00:14:32] Interviewee: Exactly. We have immense power, don't we? In being ourselves. For me and my work, that's what I want. I want as many people as possible to be truly themselves. Because I just believe that that is a very powerful state, even on an energy basis. That we then resonate that to others and allow them to be themselves, if we are our self. I allow you to be yourself. So for me it's less labels rather than more labels. But I recognize there might be [00:15:01] views still.
Interviewer: I'd like to talk to you about the ego and our self. Because sometimes, we put a front up. So you are saying it would be good for people to be themselves. But sometimes, the true self might be hiding behind a front. Do you deal with that as well?
[00:15:18] Interviewee: Yes, but I guess I don't see it so much as ego. I guess I don't label it. My training is about not labelling. It's more like: What is the issue? We are going to resolve that issue. Because when you start to label, people take on that label. So I had a client once coming in, she said "I am really anxious". And I said "What is the evidence of your anxiety?", she couldn't think of anything. So she sat quietly for about three minutes. "Maybe I am not anxious". And we never worked on anxiety again. And she just needed that belief-switch in her brain to do that. So I guess what I see is, if you came in and said to me "I feel like I am hiding behind myself", I would then be looking at "What has happened in your past that you suddenly decided to develop this wall that stops you being yourself?". So I wouldn't think "Oh, that's an ego thing". I would say "What happened there?".
Interviewer: Interesting. I want to move on to something a little bit different, which is altered states of consciousness. I don't know much about hypnotherapy. But I am interested in your opinion on using drugs to get to altered states of consciousness. Or do you prefer that people get there through yoga or sports or hypnotherapy?
[00:16:28] Interviewee: The cognitive therapy that I am trained in is slightly different to traditional hypnotherapy. So we don't believe that you need to put people to sleep. It's a believe that there is an everyday-trance. So when you are driving and you don't remember how you got there, that would be a driving-trance. Or when you are staring out of the window, that is a daydream-trance. So when you are very fixated on something that you are doing, then you are in that trance-state. And we also believe that if the brain is referencing a past experience to create a negative behaviour, then it's probably going to have that experience pretty lightly. This morning, I was working with a client about an issue and I asked him in a particular way, like "When did this start?", and he was out of the memory like a snap. Because the brain is saying "I am cross-referencing this memory all the time". So it is different to the traditional hypnotherapy, where they are putting you under. We don't do that. Your brain is running through different trance states all day, as you drive and you watch TV and you work. What you are saying to it is "What is the trance state you are in when you are struggling?" And drugs, that is interesting, I would never do that. It is not something that appeals to me.
Interviewer: On a personal level?
[00:17:42] Interviewee: Yeah, on a personal level, I wouldn't. I am curious. And I know someone who did Ayahuasca and found it incredibly powerful. And I had noticed a change in him before knowing that they had done it. So I am very curious about it. I guess my point of view - I have five children - I feel a responsibility to look after myself and I'm not sure about outcomes. It's an interesting one, whether I think other people should. I think people need to make their own decisions. For me, I feel the work that I do - and obviously, I have my own therapist and my own coach - it gets me where I need to get. And with clarity of thought and ability to understand the process of what my mind was doing to get me stuck. I don't feel that I would need to take drugs to get that outcome. And I think there's always a risk. That would be my opinion on it. But I am curious.
Interviewer: I heard there was something called cannabis for cathedrals, where people would smoke cannabis and go into cathedrals to experience a heightened state.
Interviewee: Interesting.
Interviewer: I am not trying to get from you that it's okay to take drugs. I just thought it would be interesting to know what you thought about that. You speak a lot about the brain and the mind. Do you have any thoughts on the heart? Because I read this evidence that it's got a neuron network and that you can have coherence between the heart and the brain.
[00:19:13] Interviewee: Stepping away from the science and the biology of it, yes. All my work is about the heart. I am just using the mind to access it. I say to clients: You have an emotional messaging system, which is your emotional heart, your emotions. And then you have a rational, mental message system, which is your brain literally doing your logic. You need to combine both of them. And what I tend to find is that clients come in, they are either stuck in their heart. So they will come in and stay "I am too emotional". Or they will come in and say "I am not emotional enough". And so, a lot of the work is about clearing away the stuff that stops those two working very cohesively together. Because what we want to be doing is listening to both heart and rational mind, to make the decisions that we need to make. Because we are humans, so emotions are important. And we are never not going to make decisions on an emotional basis. But if we rely entirely on our emotions, we might make the wrong decision, it's almost like Disneyland "Oh, I am just going to go with my heart". But if we are making it just with our head, we are not being human. So for me, if you sit in one or the other, you are losing half of the message. I believe we are more than our heart and our head. I believe that we resonate with everything that we take in, with all of our senses. So you can't just have heart or head either.
Interviewer: So on emotions, is the heart the seat of our emotions? Or do emotions exist in other places in the body?
[00:20:47] Interviewee: I don't know. I think our body is incredibly good at picking up emotions, very good. And I think your physiology is how those emotions get expressed. Again, I have worked with clients who said that their personal trainers have noticed they are more flexible after sessions. And when they haven't seen me two or three weeks, in the early stages, they tighten back up again.
Interviewer: Really?
[00:21:09] Interviewee: Yeah. Especially male clients, they are really lifting a lot of weight and are really moving. They come in and say "I can lift significantly more when I am doing our work". And one of the things I do with clients, I get into tune into their physiology. So if you know that you stick at maybe a three out of ten, you are on a nice, calm physiology level and then you hit a five, that's a message. So I teach clients, when you hit a five, that's when you need to start putting in some of the other tools that we have done, the rational stuff around "Okay, what is the message? What is going on with me?". And I teach them to have a clear line of thought so that they can tune into that, work out what the emotion is and then to do a recall as to where that emotion is coming from.
Interviewer: I recently got into a bit of chi gong. You work with your chi, with a chi ball. But you work with the energy within your body and they speak about emotions that might be stuck in the hips or stuff like that. It's quite interesting.
[00:22:14] Interviewee: I do agree with that. I do think we carry our stuff in our body. And one of the lovely parts of my job is, often when people come in, they will be quite hunched down, frowning and it's there, in their physiology. And then at the end, you'll notice that they are actually sitting up straight and often I will call their attention to that and say "Do you notice this difference in you? Your whole physiology has changed". So I would totally agree with that.
Interviewer: Amazing. Which leads me onto: Do you cross over into the spiritual aspects of being in with your clients?
[00:22:52] Interviewee: Wow, I am going to bounce that back to you. So how would you define spirituality?
Interviewer: It's a good question. Because what is the spirit, right? I think it's probably the soul, that is how I would define the spirit. It's that 'you' that you speak to. When I first asked you about the brain and you don't have to accept that. I think the 'you' is the spirit.
[00:23:19] Interviewee: I would agree with you, actually. So I am not religious, but I am very spiritual. I believe that human beings have a connection. I think we are very energy-based. And I think that we actually collectively have an energy and a spirituality about us. And again, it's one of the reasons that I do what I do. I think that if I can get enough people in a great mental state, they will connect their energy around the planet and look after the planet and look after humanity. So that is one of my core drivers, to build that. It's bringing all of that into every session with a client. "How connected are you to the planet? How connected are you to other human beings? How connected are you to yourself?" Absolutely, that comes into my work. And think that we, in this very busy, business, professional world that we are in at the moment, that space we are in, we have lost a bit of that connection. And I think it is up to people like us to help other people notice that and bring it back. I would absolutely say I work with a spiritual side of people as well. And I work with a lot of people who have a deep religious faith. And for me, it's another manifestation of what I believe in, we work very well with that. Even though that might not be my faith.
Interviewer: Was it Robert Kiyosaki, the 'rich dad, poor dad' author, his work is spiritual. So it's quite interesting. Because he brings the spiritual aspect into his business life. And I think that is what you were saying, we have lost that a little bit.
[00:24:49] Interviewee: Yes, I think we have. I see people who are really rich, really successful life, looks, you know, the textbook Disney life. And they are miserable. And they are miserable because they are not connected to themselves, they are not genuinely connected to others. They are not genuinely connected to their purpose. So it's doing the work where you might be saying "Your business is great, that's your business. What's the 'you'-bit? What is that internal 'you'-bit?". It might want to be in the garden, it might want to be helping other people. What's the bit that you need? And I remember a couple of years ago, I had a very wealthy man come in. And he said "I have lost all motivation. I have always been incredibly driven". And I was doing an exercise with him, where you tune into the unconscious. Not only "Here is my list of ten values", but actually "Why?" and we pull them all apart. And it came out at the end that he wanted to leave a legacy for the world. And I said "Okay, where is that in your life?", and he said "It's not in my life". And within two weeks, he went out and changed that and bring that in. And then the motivation came back up. So I think we don't look after the soul. And I'd agree with you, there is a strong sense of a soul in there. If you don't look after that, it doesn't matter what you are doing, you are not going to be happy.
Interviewer: You are going to lose yourself, in a sense?
[00:26:09] Interviewee: You lose yourself, yeah.
Interviewer: You keep feeding your business, but you never feed yourself.
[00:26:13] Interviewee: Absolutely. And there is an exercise I do with clients, where I get them to mood board themselves. There are some people that sit here and there just is no 'them'. They just don't have it. Which sounds terrifying, but it can also be very exciting. Because you can go exploring and find yourself.
Interviewer: I had a look on your site just yesterday, and I saw that you are about to release a book. I am not sure when it is coming out, 'The fulfilled leader': Becoming the person you want to be. What's the main theme and message that you want to convey with this book?
[00:26:44] Interviewee: The book is something I'm hoping that really anybody could pick up. And it would talk about the things that we are talking about, my model of working, helping people to understand themselves, helping them understand how they created these behaviours and stopping them. Hopefully, through that understanding, helping them move forward. So the main idea for it is - it's back to what I was saying earlier - around leadership. And I mean leadership even within your own life. If we have people out there who feel great about themselves, they will spread that. So for me, it's almost my mission to get as many books out to people, so they can read it and feel much better about themselves. And if they can't do that on their own, to reach out and get help through me or anyone else. But it's meant to be have people read it and have epiphanies and also that they lose guilt. Because I think a lot of people go through life punishing themselves for being a certain way. So if you have your 10% brain saying "You're stupid worrying about what people think of you" or "You're stupid feeling that you are not confident". That's your 10%, but if your 90% is running that other behaviour, where it thinks that it is protecting you, it's not going to change. So people live in this 10% with lots of guilt, lots of self-criticism and punishment, which actually makes it all worse. Because they are continually making worse behaviours. So my idea is, if they understand that, then actually this stuff in the 90% will start to shift. And they can drop the guilt. And it is not your fault, but it is your responsibility to do something about it. So I am hoping that the book will be a vehicle that people will pick up, recognize themselves in it. It would give them some learning and teaching in change. And there are exercises in it to do.
Interviewer: In practical steps?
[00:28:28] Interviewee: Yeah. It's a mix between the understanding of the neuroscience and this is how the brain works. Look at your mindset, look at your behaviours. But it is also, how has your past impacted you? And then I use case studies in it, people who've had fear of failure, things like that. So people can then actually see, "Oh, this is how this works". So I am really hoping it's a book that people will pick up and leave that book a changed person. That's what I'd like.
Interviewer: Would there be - like you mention - some things you would probably have to practice while reading the book?
[00:29:01] Interviewee: Yes, I am putting in lots of tips and tools and things that I teach clients. Like I said, when I work with clients, it's an active process. There's homework, there are other things to read. There is a very conscious experience to do with your brain. And the book is the same. I say to clients when they start: "If you can't do anything I tell you to do, you'll move quickly. Because your brain actually wants to change". The brain likes change.
Interviewer: So you spoke about guilt. Is it important to forgive ourselves? How do we do that? Do we also have to forgive each other verbally, sometimes?
[00:29:36] Interviewee: For me, guilt is if you have done something wrong and you genuinely think you have, apologize. I think 'sorry' is an immense gift. And I say to parents "Sorry is a big gift you can give to your children". But I think that you should forgive yourself, but you should also forgive the other people. And some people, it sounds terrible, their children are murdered and they are supposed to forgive. I am not sure that I am going to do that. But I know a lot of people say "I don't want to blame my parents for everything, yet actually the damage was done by my parents". But my belief is that we are all out there doing the best that we can with the internal resources that we have. So if we can just say "Your parents were doing the best that they can, it might not have been good enough for you, but they were doing the best they can", it releases your guilt from it being your issue. But also your guilt about blaming others. So it is more about stepping away from that and saying "Okay, so that has happened. How are we moving forward?". I used to say to parents "You are wasting your energy on guilt. Just move forward and be better".
Interviewer: In your book, what are the key traits to a leader who will not buckle under pressure when the going is tough? Are there certain traits to a leader?
[00:30:55] Interviewee: It is an interesting thing, because I am actually all about there not being key traits. It's about looking at who you are. The whole book is about you being the best version of you. If I had to look at key traits, I would say it's clear decision making, resilience, huge emotional empathy for others. But I think it's about knowing yourself. I don't believe there is a top 5 traits to being a leader. And I have been interviewing leaders for a few months and none of them come out with the same. So I always say to them "If there were 5 traits, what would they be?" and literally none of them have been the same. So to me, the key of being a good leader is to be a good person and know yourself. Because if you have good self-worth and you are able to determine what's going on around you clearly, you will manage those situations around you better. If you are living in a defensive state, you are going to act out your emotional baggage onto others. But if you are in a state where even when someone criticized you, you'd be able to say "Okay, can I grow in that criticism, is that criticism actually relevant to me? Is that their stuff?", it's a much clearer mindset. For me, true leadership, whether it's leading your own life or top of the world leadership, it's about you knowing yourself, 100% pure honesty, that is how I call it.
Interviewer: We probably don't know ourselves as well as we should. It is a continuing journey, right?
[00:32:23] Interviewee: Yeah. I think you should continue growing until the day you die.
Interviewer: And you never come to the end of the journey. It's continuing. But you get stronger and stronger. Lifestyle choices, what advice would you give people whatever their lifestyle choice is, to stay on top of their game?
[00:32:40] Interviewee: I think if you are doing the internal work, eating well, sleeping well and staying fit. The three basics. There is so much evidence at the moment around how we need our sleep and I certainly know that if I get mine, everything is better. Our bodies need exercise and you are what you eat, in many senses. So I always say to clients "Eat well, sleep well and exercise well". It is almost like a foundation base that everything can then grow on. But I think that also comes with self-worth. That you value yourself enough to look after yourself well. But those are the basic lifestyle choices that I ask people to look at.
Interviewer: So it's no understatement to say that that's the basis of what should get done?
Interviewee: I think it is. And for me personally, and what I have read, sleep is our baseline-key. Get your sleep first.
Interviewer: Quality sleep.
[00:33:34] Interviewee: That is what I always say to people. Get your sleep in first, if it takes you a few weeks to adjust to the exercise and the food, that's fine. But get your sleep. Because if you got your sleep, your whole mindset is clearer anyway. And then you are much more able to do the work. If you are not sleeping well...
Interviewer: You are not productive.
Interviewee: Yeah. Make good choices.
Interviewer: Go to bed early. Don't stay up until midnight.
Interviewee: Exactly.
Interviewer: What does the future look like for human species? I was watching Simon Amstell's Carnage movie on BBC. I don't know if you have seen it?
Interviewee: No, I haven't.
Interviewer: It's a wacky movie about veganism. The intro is quite funny, because you see these people walking up this serene countryside hill. And three people are holding hands and they go and join this other group of people. And they are sharing food and it's utopia-like, peaceful. In the future, in the year 2067. It would look a bit more like Terminator's world, where it's all dark and everything is burned up. The way you see us as humans on this planet, doing what we are doing now, what do you think is going to happen?
Interviewee: My future prediction?
Interviewer: Yeah.
[00:34:41] Interviewee: I guess I'm a bit torn. I heavily waited for the fact that I think humans look after each other and care for each other. I think there has been a lot of negativity globally, in the last couple of years. And I think people have risen to that challenge. People who weren't rising have risen, protests, marches, people supporting each other, donating money to each other. I think a lot of kindness and goodness is coming up in the world. I genuinely believe that. And I think it weighs a lot heavier than the negative stuff. And I also think the negative stuff is good to get out. That is where you learn to educate people and change their understanding. I have to say, I am concerned about AI. Again, that might be from an incredibly amateurish perspective, I'm concerned about the impact of social media on people. I sat on the train the other day, my battery on my phone had died and I had forgotten a book. And I sat there with three other people at my table, all on their phones. And I am a conversationalist, so I chat with people on the train all the time. But as I looked around, everybody had their mobile phone out and I thought "What a shame". I met some amazing people on the train, when I have had conversations. So I am a bit concerned. I think AI is such an interesting one, because I think it could have such an immensely powerfully positive impact. I think there are humans that might not use it for that. That would be my concern. So I think AI in itself will bring amazing... Even people being able to communicate who are very disabled, being able to communicate through their thoughts. Which they have already done, that's incredibly powerful. If you read 1984, that might be quite terrifying. I guess I am on this seesaw of hope, I very much believe that we will - as a human race - grow and develop in a beautiful way.
Interviewer: The AI, do you think there should be a moral and ethical committee, some kind of code or standard that it has to adhere to?
[00:36:42] Interviewee: I think there should be. I guess I think there is always corruption. There always will be in humans. And I think people, some of us look at humanity and think "There won't be". I think you are laughing, really, because it is never going to happen, we are never going to be a pure species. Because we also learn through growth. If you look at the animal kingdom, you can look at gorilla troops and you'll have a guerrilla leader who is great and a guerrilla leader who is not. We are still animals in that respect, there are always going to be evil people. There are always going to be people who are horrible to other people. We are not going to stop that. But my thought is, with AI, you are going to have the same corruption. Because ultimately, there is a human endpoint and money is very, very powerful for a lot of people. And AI brings money in many forms.
Interviewer: True, yes. That actually leads on to the increase of awareness, there is a lot of content out there now about how to become more aware in your current situation. Stop thinking about everything else, become aware right now. That is probably what you teach as well. Are people becoming stronger in mind by doing those types of practices?
[00:38:03] Interviewee: I think we are becoming stronger in awareness. I do think we are. I think the problem is, there is a flood of information out there. And a lot of it is wrong. I see lots of information on LinkedIn and I think there is no research backing for that.
Interviewer: Could you give us some ideas?
[00:38:23] Interviewee: This is a personal belief. It's an interesting one, because there is actually backing for that. So I am not a big fan of mindfulness. I am quite a busy person, I don't mean busy as in 'I have a lot to do', I just mean that I am quite an active person. So for me, mindfulness is that I should have that all the time, I should be mindful of where I am in my space, in my work, whatever I am doing. Even if I am busy. It's back to that core 'I am aware of myself in this moment in time'. And I think there is a lot of information out there, I see people who are using mindfulness with issues that are really quite severe. And actually, it is not enough. Those people need to be seeking professional help. Sometimes even psychiatric help. So it concerns me that there is this 'Mindfulness will cure everything'. Mindfulness, when you have done your deeper level work, I think is incredibly powerful and the research does show that. I guess for me, what my concern is, you have a lot of people who are not qualified. Coaching in itself is a case and point, there is no legal need to have any qualification as a coach.
Interviewer: You just become a coach?
[00:39:30] Interviewee: You can just become a coach. You could literally just call yourself a coach today. So for me, I am very pro qualifications. And it's not that I think that people need qualifications, it's that I think that very few people don't. And like you said, we need a basis of moral standards.
Interviewer: So you have five kids?
Interviewee: Yes.
Interviewer: Crazy!
Interviewee: Yep! [laughs]
Interviewer: I have four and I am like "Oh, well...", so I am not going to lie, it's hard work. Especially for my wife, she has them more often than I do. And keeping it together is not an easy thing. So how did you manage to keep it sane through those years of the younger kids?
[00:40:06] Interviewee: I don't think I did! I think I got to five children in many respects, through the damage of my childhood, actually. So I came out of a really dysfunctional childhood and I had what I call narrative stories, meanings in me that told me that I could never be alone. And I had very low self-worth. I always tried to create a Disney-life very quickly. I had my first child at 17. She is nearly 30 now and creating families. But I think for me, what I did was, through that time I was very aware of that damage. So I have always worked on that, being in a great place now. I think I was actually quite depressed when I had my first three children, who are now in their 20's. And I look back and reflect that I probably wasn't 'sane' in that respect at all. But I always got up every day and tried to do the best that I could. And that led me into the parent work that I did later on as a parent coach. It was that understanding that as parents, no one trains us, you are going to mess up. How do we make that mess up less damaging for our children? Which is why 'sorry' is an incredible gift. Did I stay sane through it? No, I don't think I do.
Interviewer: There is always hope. If you do go insane, you can...
Interviewee: I can sort myself out.
Interviewer: Yeah.
[00:41:32] Interviewee: I was actually talking to a client the other day and I said to her "I have worked as a parent coach, I have worked in schools. I know all about this stuff about the brain etcetera. And I still say the wrong thing". It is about learning how to manage the situation when you have done it. And not expecting yourself to be perfect. I know there is stuff that my kids probably have to go to a therapist and sort it out. But I am aware of that and I will say to them "I support you doing that, I recognize that in doing my best, it's probably not always been good enough". That is for me that honesty piece, about admitting that. And I think that is what parents don't want to do. And parents say "Why do I need to say 'sorry' in front of my child? Sure that is not good". And it is a really good thing.
Interviewer: Is that showing vulnerability to your child?
[00:42:17] Interviewee: Yeah! And I thing good modelling. Because don't you want your child to grow up and be able to apologize to their children and to colleagues around them? So I always say to parents "Imagine if you modelled a perfect parent. How much damage would that do to your child?", because when they grow up and they are not a perfect parent, then they instantly feel like a failure. Whereas I say to my children "Look at me, I am a human being. I am going to make mistakes. Take the pieces from me that are really useful for you. Ditch the rest of it and go on and be the person that you want to be". You have to be human. Be vulnerable, say sorry. My daughter and I, my 15-year-old, we had a big shouting, teenage match. And I actually said to her "I'm sorry, I am struggling at the moment. I have these stresses on. I haven't been sleeping well and looking after myself". So I am modelling "It's okay to re-calibrate, it's okay to say sorry and it's okay to admit 'I've messed up at this stage too'. I just think that's so important.
Interviewer: Mari, it's been great having you on the LifeShot.
[00:43:24] Interviewee: Thank you very much, great questions.
Interviewer: And I hope that the listeners really got something from us today and especially when you spoke about intuition, empathy and connecting with each other. Are there any parting words, if you were to give a message to people who are struggling out there with self-confidence, what would you say as a starting point?
[00:43:55] Interviewee: We are all unique on this planet and we are all us. We should resonate us, there is no 'you are better than me, you are worse than me'. We all have self-value. And we are just lovely, beautiful human beings. We should just go out and live and be our lovely and beautiful self. No one can put you down, no one can take away who you are. That's inside you. It doesn't matter what has happened to you, it doesn't matter what your experiences are, you are you. And you have every right to be on the planet.
Interviewer: It just reminded me of something about how nature is cooperative instead of competitive. And you said that it's not about being better than somebody else. Do you agree with that?
[00:44:36] Interviewee: I totally agree with that. And there was a beautiful image of Bill Gates standing in line behind somebody waiting for a burger. And lots of people were saying "Gosh, I can't believe he stands in line, he is so rich". And I thought "Why wouldn't he stand in line? That person was there first". I do genuinely believe that most humans cooperate and look after each other, care for each other. And that's the way I think most humans will continue to be. To be connected.
Interviewer: Positive.
Interviewee: Yeah, be connected to each other.
Interviewer: Mari, thank you very much.
Interviewee: Thank you!
Climate: Jake Ross is an international expert in education who has worked with several governments around the world to better the eduction systems that are provided for young people. In this interview I ask him about the education about climate change, our habits and the psychology behind our everyday choices.
In this episode I interview Julie, who is a life coach. We talk about who should get their life coached, we talk about the ego and energy. And topics such as qigong and breathing come up too. If you are thinking of getting your life coached then don't miss out on this episode
Visit Julie's website here
https://www.coachmejulie.com/
Transcription:
Interviewer: On this week's episode of LifeShot, we've got Julie, who's a life-coach from Florida, USA. Julie will be talking to us about our energy, our ego and why you might want your life coached. Welcome to the LifeShot podcast, we've got Julie Langlois with us, she is a life-coach from Florida, USA. Julie, welcome!
Interviewee: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
Interviewer: Good to have you on the show. We are going to talk today about why would you want your life coached. So I think that's what we might call the title of this show. Why you might want your life coached. So you are a life-coach, what does it actually mean? Why don't you tell us what it is?
[00:00:58] Interviewee: So I debated about that wording for a long time, life-coach. It's a hard thing, when someone comes to you and says "I need some coaching in my life", it is generally a mentorship. Looking for some advice or some mentorship in a specific area of your life. But I come from a slightly different angle, I'm like a psychiatrist who is nit-picking at your thoughts and bringing up the past. Life-coaches essentially will take you from where you are now and work with that as your baseline. And then go up from that place. Looking back at the past is important, but it's more about "Okay, this is where we are now and where we are going to. What do you want from your life? What do you want to achieve? What are your core values, belief systems and what will help you get to where you want to be fastest?".
Interviewer: What are you doing personally? Is it a calling, that you felt "Hey, I should be doing this"? What led you down to the path to start something like this?
[00:02:22] Interviewee: I have been mentored myself. And I have been to one or two life-coaches in my life time. And I'd say, the journey began when I was in my mid-twenties. I did these mindfulness workshops. The first one I did was a week-long experience, called 'The Human Touch'. And it sounds very airy, but the guy said "Okay, this is how the mind works", getting you to realize that you are not your thoughts and that you get to choose your thoughts. And he had a whole 5-day process in getting you to the point where you are, where you crushed your belief systems that have been added to you by everyone around you. And then from that space you start to develop exactly who you actually want to be, rather than this react of personality. So that's where it began. And then I have been through some very difficult periods in my life, where I have reached out to life-coaches.
Interviewer: So could you tell us about those? Because it's probably good for our listeners to hear that. Why was it that you had to go to a life-coach? Why did you feel like you had to go?
[00:04:11] Interviewee: I think the first time that I went to a life-coach was when I was in South-Africa. And I was working for my family business. Starting out in university, my dad took me inside and said "Jules, I'd really like you to work for the company". And I am so grateful that I did, I learned so much from him. But after three years, I had this nagging voice in my head saying "No, I am really not happy. This is not my passion, I don't feel like I enjoy what I am doing". And a lot of people feel that in their own jobs. I started having a feeling [00:05:01] after an additional three years working in the family business. The company wasn't in a very strong financial position. Often you can do a job if you are getting a good pay check, and you can ignore that burning desire to find something that actually ignites you. Because you are comfortable. You are getting paid and you are financially secure. But at the end of six years working in the company, I didn't feel financially secure. I had a lot guilt knowing that, and I felt a huge responsibility in the part that I played to get the company where it was. I think I completely misjudged the amount of responsibility that I should have been carrying on my shoulders. And I just was in such a bad place and I sat down with my dad and mom and I had a very emotional weekend, my skin was bad, my body was reacting to the stress in a huge way. At that stage I was very emotional, I would cry easily, I was weak. I didn't know who I was, I didn't know what I wanted to do and I didn't have a lot of money. So I said to dad, "Listen, I have this desire to be a life-coach. I have a great passion for people and I think this is something I want to do". And he gave me great advice. He said "Well, why don't I assist you in the next six weeks or so. And you can go see a life-coach and see if this is something you really want to do with your life". And within six weeks, the lady that I was working with got me to see life in a completely different perspective. How I was living, how I was creating my life. The things that I was doing that would help me to get to where I wanted to be. And from that experience, from the place that I was to where I had come out of that coaching process, I was a completely different person. And that led me to my next journey in life and working on super yachts and traveling all over the world. That experience fundamentally changed my life.
Interviewer: It is amazing sometimes, how you meet a person, either a friend or like you said, you went to see a life-coach and just that one encounter could change the whole course of your life going forward. I always find that quite fascinating. It's not every time you meet somebody that your life is going to drastically change. But there are certain people, you think back and you think "If I hadn't met that guy or if I hadn't spoken to that person, then I wouldn't be here today", right? It's just amazing. I'm sure everybody has got an example of that in their life.
[00:08:26] Interviewee: Exactly. I listen to a lot of these amazing guys, podcast guys, and they say that the people that you spend your time with, help mould your life going forward. So have a look at who you are spending most of your time with in your life, the closest five or six people. I believe in that in some regard, but I think such a responsibility and leading our life to where ever we want to go and that you can't really blame others. To where you want to go, enjoying life any less.
Interviewer: What I want to talk to you about next, you talk a lot about energy. I see a lot lately that a lot of things are connected. The universe is connected in many ways. We are all made out of the same stardust, as they put it. It's almost like something, like you say, you meet someone and your life changes. It's almost like fate, in a way. But let's not talk about fate just yet. But I want to get your view on energy. So you use that quite a lot. What is energy and why is it important?
[00:09:50] Interviewee: That's a good question. I think the word energy means many things. But the first one, the most practical one that everyone can essentially relate to, is energy to do things. When you wake up in the morning, do you have energy to get up and can you accomplish all the things in your life that you need to? It's an important word for me, because I've often felt a lack of energy. So my excuse to often not accomplish a task is "I'm tired, I don't have enough energy to do this".
Interviewer: It's kind of a go-to excuse, isn't it? "Yeah, I'm tired".
[00:10:38] Interviewee: Exactly. And I feel sorry for myself for not doing it. And those are the same things that are going to completely change my life. So energy, in the form that I study it, it also is an invisible source. So it is something that is around us and that we feel. And what's interesting, a lot of the work that I study, especially the Chinese-based approach to energy-healing, a moving meditational wellness practice, Chi Gong, that practice itself gives you a very good idea of what different energies feel like. So you also have the Chinese coming up with different elements in life.
Interviewer: Like water, air... What are those elements?
[00:11:43] Interviewee: It's air, water, fire, wood and metal. Essentially, they believe, in that culture, that we're all at some form of amalgamation of all the elements. But it's like the astrological thoughts, you have your base element. So let's just take fire for example. If your base element is fire, you'll still have all the other elements within you. But that is your leading call guiding.
Interviewer: Does everyone have a different element? Not everyone is based on fire?
[00:12:28] Interviewee: Definitely, it's sounds very airy fairy, but the Chinese do such a good job of bringing it back down to earth and it's directly relatable to that thing. So if you think of fire, you'd think of passion and anger and life of the party and someone who walks into the room and really lights things up, right? So we all know someone like that, but they can fly off the handle really quickly, especially if they are tired and things aren't going their way. And that's just a cool way to think about it. And we all know someone who's a bit of an airhead. Some people might be an air element. And you know that their head is going to be up in the clouds. You have to bring those creatives back to the point. Because they will be playing up in the sky, and you need them to try to get their tasks done. That relates back to the practice in which you can feel that energy. I don't know if you have ever walked around one day and really felt like you were walking on clouds. You just feel like you are floating around sometimes. Or sometimes you burn up, like you have a lot of energy and you feel a bit of heat within you. It's funny, we all experience these things, but we have never been shown or given a tool to really link what it means to what it feels like. Energy is many things. But it's essentially what kind of fuels the body in, fuels the soul. And within my coaching, I use a meditative practice to help and balance out the different energies, so that it releases blockages in the body, which builds life energy and people can really walk into their day with more life energy. So they are able to accomplish more.
Interviewer: Hearing this sometimes, it might be hard for me to attain, for example. Like if I listen to Wim Hoff, he's like "Never get sick again and save your life. Just follow these steps. Cold showers, meditation". And then I am like "Cool, I am going to do it". And then you think "Will I ever get there? How can he get injected with a virus and not get sick?". That is what he went through. And you talk about getting these energies and stuff. So how attainable is it for somebody to do it? Is it hard? Does it just take a little bit of practice? Is it like exercise? What is it?
[00:15:39] Interviewee: In my experience, because I am going through the process and I go through it every day, it really is super simple. It comes down to really being in tune with your body. It's almost like a holistic approach to your life, or just an understanding of your body, how it works. It doesn't even require much thinking. So it's very much a feeling thing. I don't know if you have heard the phrase "What you focus on expands"?
Interviewer: No. What you focus on, is what you get? That's what I have heard.
[00:16:23] Interviewee: That is exactly it. That is the same thing, yeah. So when you are trying to not eat sugar...
Interviewer: Then you probably eat sugar, right?
Interviewee: More sugar than you normally eat, generally.
Interviewer: Because you are thinking about sugar.
Interviewee: Exactly.
Interviewer: I've been there.
Interviewee: Me too. You just have to think about nice vegetables and then those will come into your mind.
Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. Vegetables, vegetables, come to me!
Interviewee: Basically... I've lost my train of thought now. What were we talking about?
Interviewer: It was how easy it was for people to attain. You said it was about feeling, isn't it?
[00:17:07] Interviewee: Yeah. For example meditation. When you meditate, you actually start to feel your body. You start to really listen to it in a way. And by listening to eat, I just mean notice. So let's say for example, your hand gets goose bumps or pins and needles for example. It's the very practical thing of actually just feeling that.
Interviewer: Or feeling a pain in your kidneys or something. You are sitting there and think "Oh, I have a little pain there". So it is noticing those things, right?
Interviewee: Exactly.
Interviewer: It is noticing what is happening at the moment, in the body.
[00:17:50] Interviewee: Yeah, and then often... I want you to try this. So the next time you have a headache, I want you to sit down and instead of taking a pain killer, I want you to sit there and feel your headache. Try to pinpoint where it is at. So really think about "Okay, the pain is there". And then put a size to it, put a colour to it. And then do the process again. Go back to where it is and go through that process. And what you will often find, is that it completely goes away. So often, what you focus on expands. And I feel like when you focus on the body, you are giving it a chance to heal itself. Whereas, we are so used to taking drugs and whatever we can to get rid of pain, when in fact, your body is telling you something. It's saying "Hang on, there is something wrong there that you need to look at".
Interviewer: You need to address it, yeah. I want to ask you about what you think about global consciousness. I listen to a Franciscan monk, his name is Richard Rohr. He talks about units of consciousness and it's an idea of our consciousness being united as a human race. Neural particles come together to form molecules and molecules come together to form atoms. And so, we as humans come together to form something as well. I was wondering if you have ever heard of that. Because we have got social consciousness, we've got personal consciousness. And then this idea of global consciousness. Is that something that you've thought about or something that you teach?
[00:19:41] Interviewee: In essence, what makes me believe in some form of social or group or global consciousness, is how people will say things that other people are thinking. So let's say you and your partner, you've been spending a lot of time together, sometimes you have that field experience where you were like "I knew you were going to say that" or "I knew you'd be here", or whatever the case may be. I don't think those things are coincidental. I believe that thoughts become things. If you thought something badly about someone else, for example, I believe that in a way they can feel it. And it affects them.
Interviewer: So it is important to watch what you are thinking then, is it? In a way?
[00:20:39] Interviewee: I think that if everyone took note of what they were thinking, you can't control what you are thinking. Initially, you have to correct yourself. So when you start becoming conscious of your thoughts, then you know "I am not that thought". And then you can choose to change that thought. And then you can say "Okay, I know my mind automatically generated this thought of how I hate beetroot". And then you can say "Actually, I do like beetroot. It's so good for me and I am willing to try it". So it's almost having a conversation with your thought process. And a lot people haven't separated themselves from "I can choose my thoughts" to "I am my thoughts". The first step is becoming aware that you are not your thoughts and that you can control them. And then once you can control them, you can really start to create a positive environment where you can consider others. and you can consider the planet.
Interviewer: Does that make a person less inward-focused and more focused on others? As themselves, but also as others in the world?
[00:22:05] Interviewee: I think so, hugely. I think your goals can then align with the way to go. And then you are not just me-focused. Because if you are thinking about yourself all the time, you are not going to care that you've thrown a plastic bottle into the ocean. Because chances are that you are not going to be seeing it again. But someone else will or kill an animal in the ocean. Once you move from being just focused on your own interests all the time, then we can work towards having more of a global awareness.
Interviewer: That leads me on to another question, which is that I am on a particular journey at the moment. I grew up as a Christian and then a few years ago, my world rocked a little bit. And I really had to start searching again, as it were. My journey at the moment is quite... I am going through a season where I am looking more inward at the moment. But I think that is an important season at the moment, to look inward and say "What do I think? What is this all about? What is my body saying to me? Where is my soul, where is my spirit? What is going on?". And what I want to ask you, I wrote it down here, I just want to make sure that I get the question out. You have to search yourself and look inward sometimes, but it can be seen as maybe selfish with your loved ones. I am spending all this time doing my breathing exercises, I spend a whole hour in the morning and it's all about "Clint is now going for his cold shower". What is the balance? Do you think it's necessary that we do that? How do we balance that with our loved ones? Should we say "Listen, I am just going through a bit of a period now, can you just give me a little space?". I don't know.
[00:24:10] Interviewee: That is a really cool question. Because I have been through one or two difficult times on the yacht that I was working on. And I was dealing with a crew of nine, they really feel your absence or they feel it when you're there. When you are in a bad mood, they'll pick it up.
Interviewer: You can see a person in a bad mood straight away, can you?
Interviewee: Yeah, and it can change your mood.
Interviewer: And a good mood.
[00:24:43] Interviewee: It can be contagious if you are not aware. I think it's important to communicate, always. You can make it a little bit lighter and say "Listen, I am going through some thing and I need this space. Is it okay if you can give me this time?". The other thing is, these practices that you are doing, they are really beneficial to your body and they are beneficial to who you are and in your ability to contribute long-term to your family. Anyone that is struggling with their family, you can say "I could be out drinking and smoking and doing lots of things that are really bad for me. But this journey that I am going on is a beautiful self-discovery journey and I am really figuring things out about myself. And why don't you join me?". You can make up for it maybe at another stage and say "Listen, you have given me all this time as a dad and someone who is also trying to contribute to this family at the same time with the kids". Maybe you can give back in another way. I think it's wonderful. I think the journey will only enrich your life.
Interviewer: It's an exciting journey. And I am really looking forward to more of where I can actually... I am going through something and I want to be able to maybe share that with somebody else on the other end. And it is difficult to share with your most closest ones. And I am sure you maybe experience this. But it is difficult to convince them. Because they know who you are, in a sense. You know? But it's an exciting journey, definitely. I think it's leading me towards being a more well-rounded person. Whereas in the past, I was quite... Because I am choleric as a personality, so I am probably a bit more of a fire, with the Chi Gong. And so, I'm quite like 'shoot from the hip' and I'm 'go go go'. And so I think I am a little bit more calm, a little bit more compassionate. I think I am feeling that. And also at the same time, a bit more like 'go and get it', but in a different way. Like "Stop making excuses, just do the thing you know you are supposed to do". So that has been really good. On the same topic, about the ego. I'd like to talk a bit about the ego. Because I think that some days I feel on top of the world. So I will be walking through town and I feel quite confident about myself. And then, on other days, I might walk through town and I feel quite low about myself and I look at other people and I think "I'm just nothing compared to them". Or sometimes I walk through town and maybe I am a bit elevated about myself but maybe I am feeling good, maybe I am feeling bad. But I think the ego has a little role to play there. This front that I am putting up to the world, it's feeling good right now. And on other days, this ego is not feeling so good. But I think that the ego is not something that we should totally get rid of, but at some point, we should move away from it and realize that we are not our ego. But I wanted to ask you what your thoughts on ego are. And how important is it to have it? And not to have it at times?
[00:28:47] Interviewee: I think the question here is, how do you feel authentic? If you are trying to get rid of your ego, it's like sifting through it, like "What's my ego? And what part of it is actually true? What part of it is the real me? The deeper part of me that is authentic?". And another thing you have to be careful for is comparison as well. They say comparison is the mother of all evil. And it really is. I think if you are comparing yourself from one day to another, or if you are looking at yourself compared to others, you are always going to be left wanting. A very powerful thing to use with this, to more develop who you are, is using intention. If you start living with more intention in your life, you are going to be guiding that ego essentially. Guiding your authentic self. Let's say that at the moment you have realised that you have an ego. What I would say to you is, the first thing I want you to do is to get out of your head. Because once you are out of your head, you can actually start to live from your intuition and who you are. You can listen to your gut. You can do all those wonderful things. And notice what you are reacting to. Often, you'll have a bad day, because something happened or you had a thought. So, I would say, try and pin-point what that thought was. Try and see who pushed your button.
Interviewer: What do you do with it once you know that? Because let's say you realise "Okay, it's because I had a fight with my better half". What do you do with that?
[00:30:57] Interviewee: You have a fight with your better half. You can choose to carry that fight with you for the rest of the day or you can drop it. Tell her you love her. Come to some common ground and move forward. And I think the biggest thing with that is also realising that you are breaking habits with the ego as well. So you are going to fall back into that habit at some stage. And then you just have to breathe through it, bring yourself back to the ground. Take a deep breath and say "Okay, what do I actually want to produce here? How do I want to be in this world? How do I want to feel?".
Interviewer: Taking control of your emotions and thoughts?
[00:31:40] Interviewee: It's also labelling the feeling. So we are very good, as humans, at labelling feelings. So let's say you feel your heart's racing and your skin is hot. That can be mistaken for anxiety. But it could also be excitement. So how are you looking at that reaction? Often when you are in a fearful situation, it's actually your body giving you everything you need that you'd have in the same situation if you were really excited. So look at those feelings. And the cool thing is, you can label them however you'd like to. If you have this stuff welling up inside of you, you can say "You know what? I know I am scared, because this has changed and I am excited about this". And then you can try and use your mind and your ego to put a spin on it and just say "Actually, I love my partner for her opinions and the fact that she's strong in her belief systems. Do I have to change her?". So you become aware of what is pushing your buttons, how do you want to label your feelings, taking a deep breath, really look at who you want to be in the world and then working towards that every day. Because it's a daily journey. And some days, you'll get it right. And some days you won't. This is a lifetime journey. It's not over in a day. You can't get it right in a day.
Interviewer: With you being a life-coach, how long do people come and see you? If I needed help to do the things that you are saying right now, do I need to see a life-coach once a week for a year? Do I have a six-week stint? What do you suggest for someone who might be thinking about "Maybe I should get a life-coach, I need a bit of one-on-one"?
[00:34:00] Interviewee: Initially, I work with a six- to ten-week program. That gives me enough time to figure out really what their intention is. Because initially, when people go into some form of - I know, I experienced it - if you go into coaching, when you have committed to it, you find out "It actually wasn't about the thing I went into coaching for, it was something completely different". The mentorship could be a lifetime's worth. My aim is to give someone enough solid grounding for them to walk out and make those decisions on their own. So I wouldn't want to see someone for a lifetime. I'd want them to come in, get that strength and understanding of who they are and what they want in their life. And then just see them go off and concur the world. That's my aim.
Interviewer: It's brilliant. I suppose different people would have... Someone would take a lot away in six weeks. And some people might say "I might need a bit longer". So I suppose it's different for different people. You probably see that. I think people are at different stages in their lives and it's interesting to see how some people might receive something. You teach something in the same way to two different people. You'll get two different responses from those people. And that is quite an interesting dynamic. It's like "I am giving the same message, but someone is using it in a different way". I just find that quite fascinating. I was just telling my wife yesterday. I read a book the other day by that Franciscan monk, Richard Rohr, and it was really earth shattering to me. And I gave it to a friend and he said "Oh yeah, it's not that out there". And I was like "Okay, well I thought it was way out there". So some people might think this life-coaching and stuff is way out there. And some others might think "It's probably just what I need". And other people might say "I don't need life-coaching". But maybe in a few years they do. It is interesting to think about the human mind and where it is taking us. And not just the mind, but our souls and our spirits are leading us into the different places. That's interesting. I think there is a trend now for life-coaching, isn't there? Do you see that there is an increase in the number of life-coaches? And why do you think that is?
[00:36:48] Interviewee: Oh my gosh, there is such an increase in life-coaches. It's unbelievable. There's some form of social global consciousness that's heading that way. I think a lot of the messages that Tony Robbins and Oprah and the internet, everybody has access to all of this information now. And I think humans are really searching for something better. I think we all fundamentally know that we deserve a good, happy, wonderful life. And I think a lot of people are going to life-coaches and being inspired to share. A lot of life-coaches have experienced what I have. This incredible feeling of having direction, having purpose. And doing something with significance. And I think that significance has a big pull for a lot of people.
Interviewer: Yeah. And you've been through the depths. So you have been down to hell as it were and you've come back and you were hurting and you got healed and now you are helping others to heal, right?
[00:38:16] Interviewee: Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. It's definitely not for everyone. Some people are inspired by interior decorating and being creative. And I just have this deep longing to connect with human beings. And that's really what drives me. And the beautiful thing about coaching is, as a coach, I am merely just a guide. The person does all the work themselves. And I guide them on to the infinite time they put into the homework that I give them all. The introspection that they do is what they get out of it. It's like you can lead a horse to water but only the horse can drink. I got a bit side-tracked on the question there. But for me, it's about connecting with people. And I think a lot of people are feeling the need to connect.
Interviewer: We are going to end it of in a few minutes. But just a few last closing things. If we said why you might need your life coached, what type of people would need - not necessarily a life-coach - or let's say they do. Because you are a life-coach. Let's talk about that. What type of people do you think most need a life-coach and what are the different levels? So some people might need a life-coach just for a few weeks. Some people might need one for longer. Are they people that are down and out? Or could it be executives, to be able to get an edge? Why would they need a life-coach?
[00:40:15] Interviewee: There are so many different reasons. Some people are just looking for someone, an external person, to talk to. It could just be conversations about situations that they want to sound out to somebody else. So that's one reason. Another reason would be, someone was dealing with very stressful situations. As a life-coach, you can really help give someone a perspective on how someone is dealing with anxiety. Give them tools to sort out or to really handle situations in a way that is going to be healthy for them. Personally, I have experienced loss in my family. And I know how beneficial it is to talk to someone else who has also experienced loss. Or who can lend an ear for that healing to happen. There are so many reasons. When I did my first coaching, I did eight weeks. But by the eighth week, I actually thought "You know what? I'm done. I'm actually done with coaching". Whether it's a career change, that's another thing. Are you actually doing what you love to do? Leadership, are you being an effective leader? Do you feel like you are contributing towards a team in a way that is meaningful, that will build the team and create a sustainable future for your company?
Interviewer: So just trying to be a better 'you', a better version of yourself?
[00:42:14] Interviewee: Exactly. Someone looking to do some introspection, really figuring out who they are and what they want in life. That's the biggest reason, I would say that someone would come see me.
Interviewer: Excellent. Julie, before you go today, where are you going to be in the next five years? Are you still going to be in Florida, USA? Are you going to be life-coaching there? Are you going to work nationally, or just in your area? What are your plans?
[00:42:52] Interviewee: Initially, my plan is to target the yachting industry. I am currently working on board of a super yacht as a stewardess, on top of being a life-coach. And the beautiful thing about my yachting job is, it takes me all over the world. For the next five years or so, I aim to fulfil my business and really start to become more accessible to people online. Most of my work will be online. So it will be Skype interviews or Skype sessions. Everyone is on WhatsApp now and Facebook. So basically, I have an online platform. And the clients that I have worked with are based in Johannesburg and on other boats and I have only probably worked with one or two in the same location that I am in, so I can actually see them face to face. So I am hoping to build something awesome in the next five years. Definitely not be sailing the seas still. But we'll see what happens. I am really excited about the future, where ever it takes me.
Interviewer: Good. We hope to have you back on the show at some point. And maybe we could see a part two of your life as a life-coach. And give some more advice for our listeners then. But Julie Langlois, it has been great having you on the show. And we wish you the very best there in Florida and in your travels around the world. Thanks for being on the show. Do you have any last thoughts that want to leave our listeners? Maybe a nugget of information? Or advice or something like that?
[00:44:47] Interviewee: One last thing is, just do whatever makes you happy. Just spend one week following happiness. That is my one piece of advice. If you wondered what made you happy, this will be incredible.
Interviewer: So I want to go out and just drive my dirt-bike now for a week. Is that okay?
Interviewee: Do it!
Interviewer: I am just going to phone my boss quickly, where is my phone? Alright Julie, have a good day!
Interviewee: Thanks Clint!
Interviewer: See you around.
DJ Brentano gave up his day job and became a DJ, its something that he wanted to do for many years, from the first time I met him in the year 2000 it was his dream. He never gave up and kept at it, today he is doing it full time. He produces his own music and he mixes other music for his sets on radio stations and in clubs. Join us for an inspirational journey into the heart and mind of this awesome world class DJ from South Africa, Durban.
Transcription:
Interviewer: Welcome to LifeShot, broadcasting from the United Kingdom. We are interviewing today DJ Brentano, from South Africa. He DJs for radio stations like KISS FM Australia, Durban Youth radio and other radio stations around the world, including Ibiza Radio. So here we go, an interview with DJ Brentano, telling us how he got into it. And he may just inspire you to go out and do what you love doing.
Interviewer: Welcome everyone to LifeShot podcast. Today we have an exciting show, we have DJ Brentano on the line. DJ Brentano, how are you doing?
[00:00:46] Interviewee: Mister Grove, I'm well, thanks. And yourself?
Interviewer: You know. It's good to talk to an old friend. Long time, bro!
Interviewee: Yeah man. Makes my heart happy speaking to you.
Interviewer: I've known you for... I'd like to say 18 years, I think. It might be about that long.
Interviewee: I think it is.
Interviewer: 2001. I think we met in 2001, didn't we?
Interviewee: 2000, 2001, yeah. You walked into your mum's place of work with an audio CD. And I was like "Who is this dude with the audio CD?".
Interviewer: It's brilliant, 18 years I've known you. I wanted to get you on the show. I think you have an inspiring story. Your story is not finished. You are still on a journey, of course. But I think your journey is something that can inspire other people. Especially in the country where you are from. And all over the world, of course. Tell us who you are, for the listeners who don't know DJ Brentano. Tell us a bit about you and what you are doing right now.
[00:02:05] Interviewee :I am a DJ producer. I make dance music. I am currently just releasing singles, with a label called TR Records, out in Rome. That's my focus for now, just putting out good music and following my dreams.
Interviewer: Not everyone can do that, right? Everyone should do that.
Interviewee: I think everyone can. People are just afraid of the unknown. I think that's what it is.
Interviewer: So fear draws people back, you think?
Interviewee: Definitely, it's the only thing.
Interviewer: Since I've known you, you've always wanted to be a DJ. And it took you a while to get there. Certainly in the last few years now, you have gained a success. But you never gave up. I take my hat off to you, because you really pushed it and you kept going. So tell us a bit about that.
Interviewee: You want to know why I started or where I started?
Interviewer: I just want to get a glimpse of your tenacity to not give up.
[00:03:42] Interviewee: Firstly, my first focus was actually football. I have always loved music and I have always been into music, but my first love was soccer. I played football. And I only had a dream to play in the UK, that was my only focus. And when that dream died, I broke my leg when I was coming out to the UK. I had to change focus in terms of my dream. Because I couldn't continue on that path of being a soccer player, I had broken my leg. So the next talent I had was DJing and I knew I enjoyed it, I loved it. And I said, "I am going to do this until I die". I think that was the decision for me. I just decided that I will die doing this thing. I watched a documentary recently, and they said that DJs only peak in Ibiza at the age of 45. I mean, Carl Cox is in his 50's, he is almost 60 years old. And he still rocks crowds in Ibiza and worldwide. The thing is, I studied all of that and I knew that the goal was reachable. I saw the timelines and figured it out. if I put time and effort and research into it, I can definitely make it happen. And networking was also key.
Interviewer: And that takes a bit of work, doesn't it? I think a lot of people are not willing to put that effort into doing that.
[00:05:44] Interviewee: It is frustrating, because you are going into the unknown, you don't know what to expect. You just know "I want to reach the top". How are you going to get there? You have no clue. You don't know how you are going to get there in terms of the obstacles, in terms of the setbacks. Things like that. You just know "My destination is there and I will meet people along the way. Some people will help me reach it, some people will slow down the process. But eventually, I will get there".
Interviewer: You mentioned networking, it is an interesting thing. What did you do with networking? Did you say "I want to connect with this guy on social media"? Or did you actually approach people at shows? How did you actually network?
[00:06:35] Interviewee: I found people who were passionate about the same things as me. Like yourself and the crew that we used to have with Remixd and Spin the Flava crew. Everybody was in the industry that I wanted to be in. So I became friends with them and learned what I could from everybody in an organic way. Not in a forceful way, but just letting the process take control.
Interviewer: It's inspiring to hear that, because if you just keep pushing, keep networking, do your research. And that is something that you just said now, it's quite interesting. It takes a bit of effort, but you put the research in: How do people do it? What are the keys to their success? And then you follow that as much as you can. Or maybe that's a recipe for success. It doesn't always work for everyone, but it definitely helps.
[00:07:39] Interviewee: I think the hunger plays an important role. Because the hunger for success and the hunger to make this work, I recall not having the equipment for DJing. What I would do, I would download the notes about the DJing. Find out about beat structures, whatever it had to do with DJing, I would find out about it. The equipment, even if I didn't have it, I knew about it. So that was also important. The hunger and the drive. Every time people spoke to me, it was "Hey, are you still DJing? Is the DJ thing still happening?".
Interviewer: I lived in Port Elisabeth and I really wanted to get into music production. And this is before I knew you. So this is in the 90's. And I had a Ford Sierra. And I saw this keyboard that I really wanted. It was a Roland JX305. So it was one of those workstation keyboards. And that is the same price as my car. So I am like "I am going to sell my car and I am going to get that keyboard and I will start making music". And that's what I did. Is it something like that that you've done? That you have sacrificed things to get what you need?
[00:09:05] Interviewee: Yes! And it's a funny thing. I remember that story of yours. I remember it and it was key to me doing something in my life when I went to Dubai. I sold my car and I went to Dubai and I went to every club in Dubai. And I gave them a profile and I met with promoters, with club owners, with everybody in the industry. And by the time I left Dubai, I had a licensing agreement with one of the biggest record companies in dance music, which is TR Records.
Interviewer: Amazing.
Interviewee: Yeah! So thank you for selling your car and following your dreams. [laughs]
Interviewer: And cars are very important when you are in South Africa. You have to get around, it's a big country, right? So it has not always been like this for you. We've set the scene now, it's DJ Brentano, he is a successful worldwide DJ. Playing in KISS FM in Australia, and I am not even sure where else you play, in other stations around the world. Maybe you can mention a few.
[00:10:18] Interviewee: Ibiza. I play on Pure Ibiza Radio. Every week I am on the local station, which is Durban Youth Radio, that is actually still around.
Interviewer: East coast radio?
Interviewee: East coast radio, I don't think the style that I play is specific to their audience. I think it's a bit different. Mine is a deep soulful house, which is really a niche, if I might say. And dance music, because you have electro and the commercial stuff. Mine is just there, you know? I'm not sure if it is underground, but it finds a nice balance.
Interviewer: So it's almost commercial but a little bit underground at the same time. We've set the scene now, you are at this point successful in many people's eyes, but I am sure that there are different levels of success that you are going to attain. But it has not always been like that. Can you just tell us a bit about your upbringing and the neighbourhood you grew up in and I will ask you a bit more about your family in a minute. But just tell us about the neighbourhood that you grew up in.
[00:11:56] Interviewee: I grew up in a place called Greenwood Park. I did my primary school in Greenwood Park. And I then moved to a place called Bonella in Mayville. Which was one of the first communities that was integrated after Apartheid. So we had colored people living with Indian people and black people. And a few white people, but very few white people. And that's where I grew up.
Interviewer: What was it like to live in a racially mixed Apartheid designated area? The opportunities, I suppose, at the time... You grew up near the tail end of Apartheid. So as a young teenager coming out of that, I think you were just experiencing the democratic South-Africa of the early 90's. But was it still difficult for you to shake that off and then move forward? How did you overcome that mindset, of "This is where we are from" and you are looking at the privilege at the other side of the fence? How did you deal with that, internally?
[00:13:19] Interviewee: I think it wasn't that difficult, I was probably thirteen years old. Kids are kids. So whether you are colored, white, Indian, black, the kids were cool. I think it was more the parents that had the issues, because of the systems, the Apartheid systems. I would say there was some teasing, but nothing really hectic. Guys would say "Oh, you are a white guy", or give you a nickname, stuff like that. But nothing hectic. I was going to say, everybody was more or less on an even plain field in our community. Because there were teachers, doctors, nurses. Professionals, who lived in the community. So everybody was more or less on an even plain field, in terms of lifestyle and economic ways. Which makes things better to get together socially, to integrate.
Interviewer: So your mum and dad, have they given you inspiration to follow this dream?
[00:14:39] Interviewee: Yeah, I think parents would be the hardest people to convince that you want to do music as your career and as your dream. And I actually had a real job. I had a really good job, earning really good money. And one day, something just said to me "You know what, that is enough". And I walked into my boss' office and said "I am not doing this". And I told my parents afterwards. And we really had a fight. They were like "How could you do something like this? Are you sure? Is this really what you want to do?". And I said "Yeah, I have been thinking about this for quite a while". And it has fuelled my ambition in a way, not getting full support. It fuels your passion and your hunger to succeed. Which I think was necessary. I think you need opposition and doubters and that is what I found in my parents. Not that they didn't support me, just out of concern. And I will tell you more about my dad. My dad is a guitar player, son of a pastor, also plays the banjo. A very religious man, prays every single day. For us, for the community. But also keeps a balance in growing us up, he would sacrifice going to church on a Sunday to go and play football for the club, for the local soccer club. Or if you are involved in any instrumental activities, he would make sure that he got involved. He is definitely a pillar of strength.
Interviewer: He helped to shape your character, which is awesome. I think that part of what makes you strong or what makes you go and get it is the probably the way you were brought up, a little bit. So credit to your mum and dad for being good parents. Supporting you, giving you that good character, where you say "Yes, I am driving for this, I am going for this. I am not taking 'no' for an answer. I am just going for it". Which is awesome. I don't know where you live at the moment, but you live in the Durban area, what are the opportunities like for people in their 20's now, do you see a shift going on? Are people getting frustrated? Or is there an opportunity at the moment for people in South Africa to do something different? What do you think?
[00:17:58] Interviewee: I think that everybody with a cell phone has an opportunity. That's how small the world has become. Somebody in rural South Africa could create an app that could change the world. You don't need anybody, just a cell phone and the internet and you could do whatever you want. You could contact the biggest celebrity in the world on Instagram, on Facebook. I think people just limit themselves. But a cell phone and the internet is everything you need. You have the same opportunities.
Interviewer: Yeah, that's a good point, actually. So some people might make an excuse like "I don't have the capital to start up" or something. But I think what you are saying is "You have internet, you have a mobile phone. Do a little bit of research, start learning how to do things. Contact people and network", right?
Interviewee: Yeah, everybody around the world does the same thing.
Interviewer: Yeah, it's a much smaller world, like you say, because of the internet. How did you overcome the fear? When you gave in your resignation that day, something must have driven you to that point and you overcame that fear by saying "I'm just going to try this, I'm just going out on a limb here". Tell us a bit about that little journey, that you took.
[00:19:27] Interviewee: That journey actually started the day I started working at a cooperate company. I realized when I started my business, "I can't do this". But it took me five years to get the courage to walk into the boss' office and say "I'm done, I can't do this anymore".
Interviewer: Because you had a stable income, and you are like "Well, life's a bit cushy right now, don't know if I want to give up just yet".
Interviewee: Yeah, I decided that I wanted to leave a legacy. And I didn't see myself leaving a legacy sitting at a day-job. That was it. That's all I decided. It took me five years to get the courage to just go and say "No, I'm done".
Interviewer: Better late than never. Now you are here where you are, this is your job. Tell us what you do on the daily. Is there a practice that you do every day that keeps you sharp and keeps you creative? What do you do?
[00:20:46] Interviewee: Yeah, definitely, On a daily, I work on the software that I produce music on. So every day, I make sure that I at least have a structure of a new song with it. It's just adding drums or keys or synths, I make sure I try and learn in terms of production and stuff. And then also search out new music, see what's happening on the scene in terms of the dance music, culture and stuff. Where I want to be, who is actually doing what I would like to be doing. So I check up on them, what are their moves and stuff. So that is my daily routine. And I try to spend a lot of time in the studio. Like you know, back in the day, I was always in the studio. Even if I wasn't involved. But I would always watch and try and learn. And I still do that. I go into the studio a few times a week, even if it is a hip-hop recording, or whatever, I go in just trying to stay sharp and keep up with the times.
Interviewer: So you are hanging out with guys who have their own studio, they might be recording some hip-hop album, or whatever, you just go in and watch what is going on?
Interviewee: Yeah. And just take numbers, "Who are you? What are you doing?". And that's how I think we can build up bands and our networks.
Interviewer: At the moment, how do you market yourself? Do you have people doing that or do you have to market yourself at the moment?
[00:22:35] Interviewee: No, I have to market myself. So I do little videos, I do animation videos. I taught myself a bit of animation. So that is part of my daily routine, I spend a little time on that. Put out a little video. Things like that. It helps being at TR Records, because they license my music and they will do a little marketing. They are obviously in the international market and in Europe and the States. Locally, I struggle a bit. But I am making hit way. It's taking a minute, but I am making some hit way.
Interviewer: So you'll find some parts to break through locally there. Are you traveling a bit? Do you have any plans coming up for travel?
[00:23:33] Interviewee: Yes, at the moment, the record label is setting up a European tour. So I am waiting on them to release my single and then give me tour dates.
Interviewer: Are you coming to see us in the UK?
Interviewee: Definitely, I want to do some shows out there.
Interviewer: We are going to connect to you in the UK some time. Carvin H Goldstone is coming soon.
Interviewee: You told me, you didn't give me the date. We are actually leaving tomorrow morning on the MSE for a week. And then we are back on the MSE on the 18th.
Interviewer: Is there something that you do, not related to music? Do you exercise, do you walk on the beach? Do you take your dog out? Do you cycle? Anything like that that you do, that is disconnected, that gives you a bit of calm, or something?
[00:24:31] Interviewee: I play a bit of basketball every now and then. And also the ocean, I love the ocean. So I am always swimming and going to the beach. But not as much since they saw a bull shark. So I won't be swimming as much.
Interviewer: You obviously DJ in front of crowds, maybe at night clubs or venues or on ships. So there may be some people that know you and follow you. Not necessarily from gig to gig, but I think that people would recognize you and see you at the gig and talking to you afterwards. Is there a sense of mentorship, now that you have gotten to this place? Where you see "Those people, they want to be a little bit like me", how do you deal with that? How do you intend taking that forward?
[00:25:33] Interviewee: I do realize it and I try and engage each person on a personal level. So each interaction. But I also speak to younger kids who want to get into DJing, like in my community. I have recently been approached by Boston Media College, to come and speak to the kids who want to get into dance music and production and stuff like that. I just chat in different situations as they come.
Interviewer: If a young person would come up to you, would you encourage them? "I want to become a DJ". From your particular point of view, would you encourage that or would you say "First get your university degree and then DJ"? I am not saying which way is wrong or right, I'm just asking what you think.
[00:26:39] Interviewee: It would depend, I think I can pick up the hunger. And I've done it in different ways, so if I realize you really want this and this the only thing you want, I would definitely encourage you to follow your dreams, do your research, set a goal. If a DJ or a potential DJ says to me that they want to be the best DJ, I think that's more than enough. That is it. I think that's the starting point and the ending point. If you want to be the best, I can help you and show you the ropes. That's all you need.
Interviewer: And people who are really persistent and don't give up on that and would follow it through. They would be the ones who succeed.
Interviewee: At anything.
Interviewer: Yeah, at anything, really. It doesn't have to be anything in particular, but if you really focus your mind on "That's what I want to do".
[00:27:45] Interviewee: Also write it down and read it out to yourself. Write it down and read it out to yourself on a daily. And it will happen.
Interviewer: Did you do that?
Interviewee: Yeah, I did. And my dad has been telling me to do that for years. And eventually when I did, I started seeing the doors open.
Interviewer: I have a whiteboard next to me here and I've taken it down since, but I had this saying that was "Don't ever take shortcuts". So it talks about "Always see it through to the end. Don't try and get shortcuts on things, do it properly". And it really helped me, because my personality is to do things as quickly as you can, get them done no matter what. And cut corners if you need to. And it doesn't always help me. I could do stuff and then it fails and then I give up, because I am trying to cut corners. But if I don't cut corners, it might actually go better. So I've learned a lot. Let me just reiterate. I think what you are saying is; write your goal on a piece of paper, put it somewhere where you see it every day and that is going to help you through it. It's going to say "This is what I want to do, this is where I want to get".
[00:29:15] Interviewee: Definitely, some days you don't feel like doing it. And when you see that, it changes something in your mind, and you realize "This is what I want". Even if you don't want it as much, you end up wanting it passionately, after reading it.
Interviewer: Creativity is something that is key to your work. What do you do when you hit a writer's block, in a way? You try to write a song, but it's not happening. What do you do?
[00:29:53] Interviewee: I just keep going. My first single - the one with The Nudes, Infatuation - took about three or four years to actually get to where I wanted it. I think just be consistent, know that you want the best.
Interviewer: Are you saying that song took you a few years to perfect?
Interviewee: Yes. Because I had given it to a writer who wrote for it and we were supposed to get into the studio, that person delayed for another year and a half, almost two years. Then I had to give it to a new writer, which I did. They wrote and came into the studio, back and forth, back and forth. But eventually, that song gave me a deal with TR Records. It was worth it.
Interviewer: So my personality probably would have been "Oh, this is not working. Let's just try a new one". That's me. So there are probably good things about my character and really good things about yours. Pushing through and saying "I'm not giving up on this thing. This song is good, I know that I just need something on top of it to make it work".
Interviewee: The world needs people like you, though. Because shortcuts are what we need.
Interviewer: We need a few shortcuts, right? Why do you do what you do?
[00:31:56] Interviewee: Why do I do what I do? It makes me feel alive, like I am worth something. Everyone wants to feel worthy, feel valuable, to their fans, their family, to their communities. I found that this showcases a bit of value to the people around me. And I enjoy it, I like it.
Interviewer: You enjoy it and you feel valued when you do. And you feel like you are giving value to other people. And then leads me on to my next question. Do you think your music helps people and can help people? What can your music do for people?
[00:32:54] Interviewee: I try and put a message in each song. Not necessarily my own message, but sometimes the writer's. When they have written a song, I sit down with them and I hear the story behind the song. I kind of co-write, so there is always an underlying message. I have a song called 'Freedom', which speaks about following your dreams. I am not sure if you have heard it. And my next one is 'Praises go up', I try and keep an inspirational theme, almost. The first song is called 'Infatuation', it's talking about a girl that likes a guy, because of the looks and now she has moved on to better things. Each song does have a message and at the same time it's fun and it's dance music. So you can listen to it for the message or you can listen to it just for the vibe. That's what I want to put out through the music. Just good vibes, good messages.
Interviewer: And music is very important to many South African communities. I noticed that when I started to integrate with races besides my race, the white race. And like I say, we grew up just like young teenagers coming out of that separation. We didn't ask to know about it, I must admit, when I was 10, 11, 12 years old. I didn't know anything about Apartheid, necessarily. We just didn't realize it. And then Mandela got released and I started to hang out with people of different colour and I was intrigued by their love for music. And just how music was so important to them. Everybody would have a HiFi stereo at home and it would be pumping music. And as much as they could, they would have a system in their car, that had a big bass. Music was everywhere. And people were dancing. And I think that music is something that frees up people and gives them - like you say - a good vibe. If people listen to music, it gives them a bit of a boost and happiness. That's amazing. Has it changed since then or is it still similar? Is it important to people in those communities?
[00:35:38] Interviewee: Definitely, 100%. I think that's where the music actually lives, in those communities. Now it has become more commercialized where you have venues, showcasing artists in the locations and the former disadvantage communities. It has very much become an industry, which makes a lot of money. But the actual vibe at people's houses and stuff, it still goes on. People play their music loudly, neighbours, party until late. It's part of our culture.
Interviewer: Next time we have a chat, I'd like to get into that a little bit more, about how music is so important to many South Africans, like we mentioned. Since I've left, I've been in the UK since 2010, I was really impressed. People who don't know me, I am a music producer as I mentioned that earlier. I was really impressed by the quality of music, since I have been away. And I want to talk about that the next time we get together, about how the opportunities are abounding within the music industry. Like you say, there is a lot of money and it's more commercial now. Maybe we could talk about how that could be of benefit to many people out there. But as an ending note, DJ Brentano, if you were to speak to your younger self, your 20-year-old self - not that you are that old - what advice would you give him? You have just come out of school, you are two years out of school, you are searching for what to do, what would you say to him?
[00:37:41] Interviewee: I would say "Follow your heart and don't listen to anybody. Follow your heart, it is going to show you the right way".
Interviewer: My mum used to say that to me, "Just do what your heart says". I'm like, "What does that even mean?". I just realized, your heart does actually have a brain, I think. Your heart tells you something, doesn't it? And your head is telling you something. If your heart says "Do it", follow it.
Interviewee: Do it, yeah.
Interviewer: I love it. My man, it has been a privilege talking to you.
Interviewee: Thank you, Mister Spin. It's lovely, man.
Interviewer: We'll definitely connect again.
Interviewee: Yeah, I will try to get up there, we must do some shows there.
Interviewer: You know what, I might just quit my job and do it.
Interviewee: And follow your dreams.
Interviewer: Yeah, definitely, I'm looking forward to round two, so I want to speak to you in a few months’ time, maybe two years. Let's say not more than two years. We'll have another chat, see where you are and let's get more people inspired to follow their dreams, listen to your heart and take it forward. It has been really good having you on the show. I wish you all the best.
Interviewee: Thanks, Clint!
Interviewer: Adios!
Interviewee: Peace, bro.