Fishers of Men: Recent Episodes
Lara Sumera/Mary Ashley Burton
We all have to deal with rejection, and we can probably all agree that it sucks. Mary Ashley and Lara talk with therapist and friend of the show Daniel Johnson about how to mitigate those awful feelings when we get rejected.
Lara and Mary Ashley talk to Lara's mother-in-law and closest therapist family relation, Deana Samms, about Attachment Theory, how we develop attachment styles early in life, and what we can do to heal if we find ourselves with a less-than-ideal attachment.
Mary Ashley talks with Amanda Vernon, co-author of the book When God Wrecks Your Romance, about what it was like to be THAT girl when her teenage crush became a priest, as well as chastity, flirting, the nature of infatuation, and God (obviously). You can find out more about Amanda and find the book here: https://www.amandavernon.com/
Come see Amanda and Fr. Matt in person on August 17th! Register for tickets and get details here! https://www.facebook.com/events/1232822490230890/
Anna Hitchings unexpectedly went Catholic viral with a piece about the simple fact that, well, there just don’t seem to be that many men for single Catholic women to marry. Mary Ashley chats with her about her thoughts on why this is and what can help. Please check out her blog at https://agonyandhope.com/.
The Four Man Plan is a methodical way to date. Author Cindy Lu talks about the plan, her book, and even dishes out some dating advice from her years as a dating coach to women and men. You can find her at thefourmanplan.com.
About the Book: THE FOUR MAN PLAN is a bullet-proof system for attracting and finding love. It combines the certainties of math and human behavior into a functioning system for finding Mr. Right. The Four Man Plan uses the woman’s linear and creative mind to support and guide her emotional and reactive heart. More importantly it helps transform dating into a process of self-awareness and discovery. Learn the Wait for Sex Index, The Yes Factor and the Chick’s Chick Angle. Don’t worry, it’s FUN! Math nerdiness is not required.
Lara and Mary Ashley lead a round-table discussion on the recent documentary "I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye," about Joshua Harris' attempts to learn about the damage that resulted from his famous book and make amends for it. You can view the film here: https://www.isurvivedikdg.com/
After a lengthy hiatus, we are back! Mary Ashley talks with Liz Galvao of the Bachelor discussion podcast My Wife Is In This Room on the lessons we all might be able to take from everyone's favorite reality show to hate-watch.
Therapist and author Katie Jo Ramsey talks through the Enneagram, the importance of knowing yourself in order to heal and grow, and how knowing your Enneagram type can help you be better in your relationships.
You can check out the articles we mention in the podcast here: https://relevantmagazine.com/god/enneagram-makes-sanctification-specific/ and https://relevantmagazine.com/god/3-ways-of-finding-your-enneagram-type-that-are-better-than-taking-some-online-quiz/
You can also find Katie Jo at katiejoramsey.com as well as on Instagram and Twitter at katiejoramsey.
We talk again with Daniel Johnson, MFT, about how to communicate respectfully and effectively in relationships, including arguing! You can catch Daniel's podcast The Color of Thought and contact him here:
https://danielmft.com/author/magisterdgj/
We talk with Paul Fahey, contributor at Where Peter Is (https://wherepeteris.com/) about the ins and outs of Natural Family Planning: what's great, what's tough, and where can the Church grow?
UPDATE: Paul has two addenda and some advice for couples below.
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I briefly spoke about Providentialism, that is, a couple not using NFP or any kind of family planning and leaving everything up to God’s providence. In the podcast I made it sound like that was against Church teaching. I misspoke there. Providentialism is not obligatory, expected, or even encouraged by the Church, but it is allowed.
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I was asked about how couples who struggling with prolonged abstinence due to the ineffectiveness of NFP can best make it through that difficult situation. I gave a couple of points in the podcast, but since this was recorded I have come up with more. Here is my current list of suggestions based on my personal experience of struggling with prolonged abstinence and it triggering a real crisis of faith:
Talk with people you trust about this struggle, don't go at it alone. If you can talk with flesh and blood people about this you will be better off.
Talk with a priest (or spiritual director if you're lucky enough to have one) about this, putting all your struggles and doubts on the table.
If there's peripheral things that are making this burden worse (stress from kids or work or whatever) then see if you can lessen those burdens (asking people to help watch kids for example).
Try and spend more quality time with each other (going on dates or whatever), but if that makes things worse then don't be afraid to try doing things separately instead (take turns staying home with the kids so you can spend time with friends or hobbies individually).
If you think there's any postpartum depression or anxiety (for you or yourself) then go to a doctor or counselor. These things make long term abstinence way more difficult than it already is.
Pray for healing for your cycles and any other factors that may be contributing. Take advantage of any healing prayer ministry in your area.
And cling to each other. In times of doubt and spiritual desolation you can be Christ for your spouse. When you have nothing but anger towards God then lean into your spouse and the real tangible love you have for them. In other words, when your spouse isn't feeling God's loving presence then make an effort to be more lovingly present to them. If you find yourself unable to love God in the moment at least you can love your spouse.
Lara talks to Melody Michalski and Anthony Laurel about starting their relationship long-distance and the challenges of waiting for every part of their relationship. They speak about their journey from spiritual struggles, to figuring out how to do long-distance, to moving to be in the same city, to dating in person (finally!), and then to engagement. They are on the last leg of their waiting period before getting married, and this is Part 1 of their story. We’ll catch up with the lovebirds in a few months after their wedding to see how they’re doing.
Ghosting: one of our most painful and confusing modern dating rituals. We talk to MFT Naphtali Roberts at her office in Montrose about why it happens, what we do when someone is ghosting us, and how to draw appropriate boundaries so that we don’t become a ghoster ourselves. You can find Naphtali at helpforyourfamily.com or email her at naphtali@helpforyourfamily.com.
We interviewed Megan Harrington for the Dating Project way back when and, let's face it, we need a refresher for when we see it on Tuesday, April 17th! Get your tickets here! https://www.fathomevents.com/events/the-dating-project Go see it! We're not getting paid to say this. We genuinely loved it and think you will too!
We talk with Raymond and Ashley from the Mass Box (http://www.themassbox.com/) about their unique vocation story and why fathers are important for a family's faith life.
Lara talks with Deana Samms and Melody Michalski about anxiety and depression, their roots, and some helpful tools to combat them. We touch on the illusion of control and where we ultimately can find our peace. You can find Deana at the Kanawha Pastoral Counseling Center in West Virginia at kpcc.com.
Music provided by Melody Michalski Website: www.melodymichalski.com Facebook: @melodymichals Instagram: @melodymichalski YouTube: www.youtube.com/melodymichalski
Info about the Dating Project can be found here: https://www.thedatingprojectmovie.com/
We speak with Christy Samms, a counselor out of Cleveland, OH, about how to spot abuse and define boundaries, including an in-depth discussion of the book Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend, which has been an amazing resource for so many clinicians. You can find more about Christy at www.christysamms.com.
We talk with Becky Murdoch, who shares the ins and outs of growing up in purity culture.
Faced with the end of her marriage, filmmaker Erin Dooley walked across Spain in order to be able to fully forgive her ex-husband. Join us as we talk forgiveness, the film she made about her journey on the Camino de Santiago, and her latest project Broken & Beautiful, a Christian musical!
You can connect with Erin or follow her projects here:
A Way to Forgiveness http://awaytoforgiveness.weebly.com/ https://www.facebook.com/AWayToForgiveness/ https://twitter.com/Way2Forgiveness https://www.instagram.com/awaytoforgiveness/
Broken & Beautiful http://www.brokenandbeautifulmovie.com/ https://www.facebook.com/brokenandbeautifulmovie/ https://twitter.com/Brokn_Beautiful https://www.instagram.com/broken.beautiful.movie/
D.A.S.H. Entertainment http://www.dashentertainmentllc.com/ https://www.facebook.com/DASHEntertainment/ https://twitter.com/DASH_Entertain
We talk with young priest Fr. Tim Grumbach about sexuality and the need for intimacy within celibacy.
Being a stay-at-home dad certainly has a stigma, and though it isn't unheard of to see men overseeing the home and children, what challenges are there still in this growing minority? We talk to Rick Bickerstaff and Gaylan Adair about their decisions to stay at home, educational choices, and even the difficulty of being the only guy they know in their stay-at-home networks.
We talk with Sonja Corbitt, the Bible Study Evangelista, about father wounds, the damage they can cause, and how to heal them.
We talk with producer Megan Harrington about the upcoming documentary release The Dating Project.
Mary Ashley commemorates both Halloween and the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation by doing something truly scary: sharing her VERY personal story. Yikes!
We talk with Jane the Virgin consulting producer Valentina Garza about the show's handling of sexuality and faith.
Mary Ashley talks with blogger Sarah Margaret Babbs about mother wounds, and how they can affect our faith. You can find her writing at Fumbling Toward Grace (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/fumblingtowardgrace/).
Professor and theologian Kevin Johnson explains how mystical theology can help us with dating and relationships. You can find his website here: https://kevinmichaeljohnson.com/
We talk with writer Marlena Graves about how to avoid making the wrong choice when it comes to marrying a Christian.
Mary Ashley talks with Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest Fr. Jason Charron about Eastern wisdom on marriage and the advantages and disadvantages of a married priesthood.
We talk with writer and professor Rebecca Bratten Weiss about the oft-misunderstood virtue of modesty and what it means for us today.
Psychotherapist and theologian Cissy Brady-Rogers speaks with us about shame and how it affects the culture around us, especially in the context of human sexuality. As spiritual beings, how do we reconcile our sexuality within the teachings of the Bible? How do we overcome shame?
We talk with podcast listeners Susie and Pat about their experiences going through divorces and getting back on the dating scene after 40.
Online dating can be a grind, and occasionally a nightmare, but sometimes it turns out to be worth it. Rawni and Ben Moulton talk about how they met online, how they dated, and what led to their decision to get married.
Mary Ashley talks with writer Chris Easterly, author of Falling Forward: A Man's Memoir of Divorce, on the male perspective on divorce, annulments, and the return to the single life.
You can find his book here: https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Forward-Memoir-Divorce-Kindle-ebook/dp/B00QMYEYW8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497887929&sr=8-1&keywords=falling+forward+a+man%27s+memoir+of+divorce
We talk with Salvation Army officer Danielle Strickland about her book The Liberating Truth: How Jesus Empowers Women and about egalitarianism within Christianity. You can find out more about Danielle and her work at the following links:
https://www.daniellestrickland.com/podcast/ https://www.cbeinternational.org/ https://smile.amazon.com/Liberating-Truth-Jesus-Empowers-Women/dp/085721019X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1496885693&sr=8-3&keywords=danielle+strickland
We bring back LA-area therapist Daniel Johnson, MFT, to discuss dealing with anger, especially when it leads you to do things you know you shouldn't do, like wearing a revenge dress.
Breakups. Why do they happen? How can you do them in a healthy way? We explore our own experiences with LA-area therapist Daniel Johnson, MFT.
In this mini-episode, we hear from Erika Vodvarka and Brian Henk about their two-minute speed date and how that led to their 5-year relationship.
We talk with Dr. Julie Hanlon Rubio about her book Hope For Common Ground, and how to maintain and nurture relationships with people on the other side of the political spectrum.
We talk with Jesse-Lee Yarborough about a recently ended dating fast, emotional healing, and whether or not God can make the best sandwich.
We talk with theologian David Cloutier about technology and its impact on modern dating and relationships.
We talk to podcaster extraordinaire Cameron Fradd about starting her podcast Among the Lilies, and the importance of keeping it real.
Mary Ashley sits down with her friend Alba Lopez over some mead to give two different perspectives on singlehood and the lessons God is teaching them through it.
What does it mean to form good men in the Church today? We talk with the spectrum of masculinity and masculine virtue with Professor Tim O'Malley, Director of the Notre Dame Center for Liturgy and founding editor of the Institute for Church Life’s journal, Church Life: A Journal for the New Evangelization. We also have Lara's husband Derek on to comment on masculinity from a Protestant perspective.
We talk with screenwriter Jennifer Dornbush about her journey with infertility...the struggles, the unexpected, and what NOT to say.
Romans 12:12: Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Please visit our site fishersofmenpodcast.com for the link to Humanae Vitae, the document Jennifer refers to.
Mary Ashley and Lara talk with therapist Carla Rosckes Maldonado to get the low down on Narcissism and attempt to understand people that they may or may not know in real life.
Song credit: The Ego Song by Melody Michalski.
Mary Ashley hosts a friendly debate between Tommy Shultz of Novo Ministries and Seph Beal, a self-described expert on the porn industry. You can find Tommy at https://www.tommy-shultz.com/ and find Seph on Twitter at https://twitter.com/sidetrackmusik.
Mary Beth Bonacci, speaker, author and advice columnist for Catholic Match, stops by to give advice on online dating and even do a little commiserating with Mary Ashley.
Renowned author and speaker Matt Fradd lays down some truth about porn and human identity in a delightful way. Check out Matt's website at mattfradd.com, and his own podcasts Integrity Restored and Pints with Aquinas, as well as the books he writes and all the other stuff he does, because we're just really big fans.
Happy New Year from Fishers of Men! To kick off the new year, we thought it might be nice to talk to a new believer so that we could get a little refreshment. Mary Ashley talks with Megan Bitzer Iranpour, who got baptized with her husband in November of 2016. Megan talks about how becoming Christian has impacted her marriage, parenting, and family life, while Mary Ashley tries to bask in her post-baptismal glow.
Mary Ashley talks with Jessica Gerhardt and Kateri Lirio from the newly formed collective Hidden Leaven about vocation, art, music, and their recently-released EP of Christmas songs! To hear the songs in their entirety and donate to Share a Meal, please visit http://www.hiddenleaven.com/.
Everyone knows that long-distance relationships can be tough, but if you've never been in one, there might be a few things you haven't considered. We bring back Morgan Ayres, long-distance relationship expert, to give us an insider's perspective.
We talk with actor and writer Jacquelyn Zook about the pain of an unexpected divorce and the healing that allowed her to find love again.
NOTE: Due to weird unexplained technical difficulties, and because the Devil is apparently very busy, this is a re-upload.
In this episode we welcome divorce recovery expert Lisa Duffy to talk about what we in the Church can do to help prevent divorce and minister to divorced people, as well as what those going through a divorce can to do cope. Lisa is the author of Divorced. Catholic. Now What?, The Catholic's Guide to Dating After Divorce, and A Road to Healing: Daily Reflections for Divorced Catholics.
What differentiates a marriage inside the Church from one outside of it? What can the Church as a whole gain from promoting the sacrament of matrimony? We talk with Fr. Tom Vandenberg, author of Rediscovering the Pearl of Great Price: The Surprising Sacrament of Matrimony about the value of marriage and the lessons it can teach all of us.
Join us for a very special Halloween episode in which we mine the internet for the best worst date stories.
In this episode, we talk with writer Maylin Tu about some of the real-life implications of complementarian views and discuss feminist critiques of them.
So...what's up with this Complementarianism deal? What's it about, and why do people believe it? We talk with Paul Moorhead, who calmly fields our questions.
Christian singles have it soo hard, right? Yes. BUT there are other communities that have it even worse. We talk with one of Mary Ashley's coworkers to get her perspective.
What are the automatic "nos" when you meet someone? Lara chats with her bridesmaids about the red flags to pay attention to, and Mary Ashley weighs in, because she can't resist.
We talk with Joseph Barkley on the human search for intimacy, finding fulfillment and redemption in God, and loneliness in the absence of human intimacy.
Can Christians come up with a Theology of Dating? What does hookup culture look like at Catholic universities? In this episode, we talk with Dr. Jason King, author of the books Save the Date and the forthcoming Faith with Benefits, chair of the Theology Department at St. Vincent College in Latrobe, PA and also Associate editor of the Journal of Moral Theology about his research on culture, dating, and marriage.
The number one topic that couples fight about is money. Gary and April Clemmer talk about the importance of communicating about money matters in relationships, specifically in marriage.
In this episode, we talk with some of the cast and crew of the musical I Love You Because. We talk about the play (a modern re-interpretation of Pride and Prejudice), the life lessons it calls to mind for the cast and crew, and the interaction between faith and secular art for Christian artists.
I Love You Because will be playing at The Grove Theater Center in Burbank September 15th-October 2nd. For tickets, please visit http://iloveyoubecausemusical.brownpapertickets.com/
We talk with filmmakers Maggie Hart and Luke Cheeseman about their projects and discuss male and female perspectives on love and relationships, especially when portrayed in the media. Maggie has a web series in the works called "The Relationship Method", and Luke and his writing partner Jim Frye are writing a screenplay called "Bad Boy Up".
What does a male feminist look like? How does he act? How are his choices different than the male that does not consider himself a feminist? In this episode, we talk to one of Mary Ashley's old friends, Marshall James, on the specifics of being someone who, at first, sounds like a walking contradiction.
We continue with Brian and Jenny of No. 13, exploring their dating backgrounds and chatting about the virtues associated with masculinity and femininity.
Is courtship still a thing? Is it better than conventional dating? What does it look like? We talk with Brian Bielawski and Jenny Larson, two people who switched from dating to courtship, to find out about the whys and hows of courting.
What happens when you grow up being taught that sex is bad? Morgan Ayres shares his experience growing up in a purity-focused church, living outside of those teachings, and recently realizing that there is a healthy and holy way to view sex in relationships, whether single or married.
Frustrated single women want to know: why aren't guys at their churches making any moves or asking them out? We posed the question to two guys and a lively discussion ensued which included commentary on the book Wild At Heart.
Have you ever dated someone that irritated you? Did you then go on to marry them? Mary Ashley sat down with her friend Becky Nixon to hear her recount the tale of a romance that defied expectations and seemed to go wrong at every turn, from a dating life filled with doubt and irritation to a marriage that faced infertility, miscarriages, and a cancer scare, and how God has been with them every step of the way.
In this mini-episode, Lara and Derek talk about getting engaged! Derek talks about when he knew she was the one, when he talked to the parents and best friends about proposing, and how he prepared.
How can gratitude help with dating or relationships? What's the right attitude to have when dating or developing a relationship? How can we improve the way we're dating today?
We talk with Dr. Sarah Schnitker, Associate Professor at the Thrive Center for Human Development in the School of Psychology at Fuller Theological Seminary to talk about gratitude and its impact on relationships and happiness.
Lara shares a poem she wrote about her grandparents, and Mary Ashley interviews her Grandaddy in order to see what we can learn from his experience.
Singer-songwriter Jessica Gerhardt of the band Feronia stops by to talk about how her faith and love life have influenced her songwriting, and along the way shares her thoughts on purity, feminism and God's mercy.
We interview Catholic author Heather King about her wild life, finding Jesus, and her choice to serve the church in her celibacy.
We talk with Jeannie and Bruce Hannemann about their journey through porn addiction and recovery, and their recovery ministry which combines science and prayer. Their ministries can be found at:
www.reclaimsexualhealth.com www.elizabethministry.com
On today’s episode, we interview Catholic author Dawn Eden about her books Thrill of the Chaste and Remembering God’s Mercy: Redeem the Past and Free Yourself from Painful Memories.
You can find Dawn at her blog, The Dawn Patrol, or on Twitter @dawnofmercy.
Then, Lara’s boyfriend Derek stops by to correct Lara on the detail of when she friend zoned him and chat about the role of chastity in his life.
What is dating? What is a date? What is the difference between dating and hanging out? Why is this so confusing?
We posed these questions to our friends, as well as pastor Jon Ritner of the Ecclesia church in Hollywood, to try to get a handle on it. The result? We’re even more confused than before, but we sure had fun trying to figure it out!
Thank you to everyone who allowed us to corner them and shove mics in their faces while asking impossible-to-answer questions.
Here is the Reddit survey on Catholic Dating that we mention in this episode:
https://drive.google.com/…/0B48GcXkufsnbMjEyRFI0LXhHbEU/view