Inspiring Women In CX: Recent Episodes
Clare Muscutt
Get set to feel inspired by host, Clare Muscutt and her weekly inspiring guests, on the Women in CX Podcast.
Listen-in as we share our career journeys, look back at the moments that shaped use and voice our opinions as loudly as we like, about all manner of subjects (including customer experience).
Sit back and listen to the only female led, managed and produced podcast on the internet made for women, by women in customer experience.
Discover how Katie Stabler built a thriving CX consultancy through resilience, authentic leadership, and a human-centred approach to customer experience.
In this special edition of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast series, celebrating the winners of the Inspiring Women in CX Awards 2025, Katie Stabler joins Clare Muscutt to explore what it really takes to build a successful customer experience consultancy rooted in humanity, resilience, and authentic leadership.
Named Solopreneur of the Year 2025, Katie reflects on her journey from unexpected redundancy to running a thriving independent CX consultancy for over five years. Together, Clare and Katie unpack the realities of solopreneurship, navigating personal adversity, and maintaining a human-centred CX philosophy in an increasingly AI-driven world.
The conversation also dives into Katie’s book, CXism, which challenges traditional views of customer experience by reframing CX as a cultural belief system rather than simply a business function.
Whether you're a CX consultant, leader, founder, or someone navigating the future of customer experience in the age of AI, this episode offers honest insights into resilience, leadership, and building a values-led business.
Key Insights:
- Building a customer experience consultancy in an AI-driven world requires more human connection – not less.
- Resilience in business is often about continuing to show up through uncertainty and personal adversity.
- Human-centred CX creates stronger long-term customer relationships built on trust and empathy.
- Solopreneurship can feel isolating, but it also creates freedom, adaptability, and authenticity.
- Visibility, relationships, and reputation can become more powerful than traditional marketing strategies.
- CXism reframes customer experience as a mindset and cultural philosophy rather than a department or process.
Timestamps:
02:07: Career Inspiration & Human-Centred CX Leadership
05:48: Staying Human in an AI-Driven Customer Experience Industry
10:03: Why Women in CX Technology Matter More Than Ever
12:19: Starting a CX Consultancy During the Pandemic
19:42: Burnout, Grief & Building Resilience as a Solo Entrepreneur
29:19: Writing “CXism” & Growing a Global CX Brand
37:17: Advice for Women Starting a Business in Customer Experience
About Katie Stabler:
Katie Stabler is an award-winning customer experience consultant, speaker, and author of CXism. As the Inspiring Women in CX Awards 2025 Solopreneur of the Year winner, Katie is passionate about helping organisations create more human-centred customer experiences through culture, empathy, and authentic leadership.
Resources & Links:
- Explore the Women in CX Community
- Learn more about the Inspiring Women in CX Awards
- Discover upcoming Women in CX Events
- Listen to more Inspiring Women in CX Podcast Episodes
In this episode of WiCX Talk Trends, Clare Muscutt is joined by Sierra Modro, Sr. Director of Software Engineering at ujet.cx.
As one of the few women building the technology that so many CX teams rely on every day, Sierra offers a unique lens on one of the biggest tensions in customer experience today: are we using AI to fix customer experience, or just speeding up what’s already broken? And why who builds the technology matters just as much as the technology itself.
Many organisations are racing to implement AI, but few are addressing the fragmented systems, siloed data and agent-experience challenges that limit its potential impact.
With extensive experience across Intel, AWS, Wacom and several EdTech companies, Sierra shares how her career has been shaped by one core question: what happens at the moment a human touches technology – and what does it cost when that experience breaks?
Clare and Sierra unpack why today’s CX challenges are deeply architectural, and what it takes to move beyond “shiny” AI solutions to a more holistic, human-centred approach that reduces friction for agents, improves customer outcomes, and delivers meaningful business value.
A must-listen for CX and technology leaders navigating AI transformation and looking to build smarter, more effective customer experiences.
In this special edition of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, celebrating the 2025 Inspiring Women in CX Awards Winners, Clare Muscutt sits down with Judy Bloch, VP, Industry Executive Advisor and our Women in CX Tech Award Winner.
In this insightful conversation, Judy shares how her background in industrial engineering shaped her structured, results-driven approach to customer experience. From early process improvement work to becoming a global CX advisor, Judy reveals how she connects CX initiatives directly to commercial outcomes – helping organisations prove the value of experience-led transformation.
She also reflects on the power of influence, storytelling, and executive presence in driving change, particularly for women leading in technology-driven environments.
Together, Clare and Judy explore:
- Connecting CX investments to measurable business value in regulated industries.
- Why modern CX leadership requires balancing innovation with empathy.
- The evolution of personalisation – from basic segmentation to real-time, individualised experiences at scale.
- The growing role of AI in enabling proactive, human-centred experiences.
- The importance of thinking like a business leader, not just a CX leader.
This episode celebrates Judy’s pragmatic and commercially savvy approach to CX. Packed with practical wisdom and inspiration, it’s a must-listen for anyone who wants to strengthen their strategic influence, demonstrate impact, and shape the future of experience in their organisations.
In this special edition of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, celebrating the 2025 Inspiring Women in CX Awards Winners, Clare Muscutt sits down with Shannon Knowlton, Voice of the Customer Manager and this year’s Innovation Award winner.
In this uplifting conversation, Shannon opens up about her journey of overcoming imposter syndrome, owning her accomplishments, and leading meaningful customer experience innovation in a traditionally risk-averse sector.
She reveals the innovation that earned her this year’s award: a bespoke GenAI Copilot agent she built from the ground up to revolutionise VOC workflows, enhance the depth and reliability of customer insights, and strengthen strategic collaboration.
Together, Clare and Shannon explore:
- Stepping outside of your comfort zone to overcome imposter syndrome and accelerate your career.
- The core capabilities of modern leadership – from empathy and curiosity to collaboration and impactful storytelling.
- Practical, human-centred ways to use AI in customer experience while keeping people firmly in the loop.
- Sparking innovation in risk-averse industries by focusing on the problem before introducing technology.
- How CX professionals can stay future-ready through networking, mentorship, and continuous learning
This episode is a celebration of Shannon’s refreshingly practical and deeply human approach to CX, offering listeners the confidence to lead innovation in their own organisations. A must-listen for anyone wanting to grow, innovate, and make a real difference!
In this episode of WiCX Talks Trends, Clare Muscutt speaks with Jennifer Buffaloe, Senior Director of Customer Success at CallMiner, about what it really means to prepare our organisations for an AI-enabled future of work.
While most companies are focused on building AI capability, few are actually preparing their people for the change — and this conversation flips the script.
Clare and Jen discuss the skills, culture, leadership behaviours and practical steps required to help teams work confidently with AI — and how to build trust, readiness and adoption in a way that empowers people rather than replaces them.
A must listen for CX leaders who want to future-proof their teams, beyond hype and beyond fear.
In this special edition of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, celebrating the 2025 Inspiring Women in CX Awards Winners, Clare Muscutt sits down with Susanna Baqué, Senior Director, Global Customer Experience and our Culture Award winner!
Shaped by a profoundly personal experience, Susanna shares her inspiring journey, revealing how vulnerability and empathy transformed her workplace – and customer experiences.
Clare and Susanna explore:
- Leading with empathy and inclusion to drive meaningful connections with employees and customers
- The courage of vulnerability in leadership and how it sparks transformative cultural change
- Practical strategies for building psychological safety and fostering thriving teams
- The power of authentic, people-first leadership in shaping extraordinary workplaces
- Lessons on collaboration, belonging, and lifting others as you rise
This episode celebrates Susanna’s remarkable leadership and the thriving CX culture she’s built. Packed with real-world insights, it’s an inspiring listen for anyone looking to create genuinely human-centred workplaces.
In this special edition of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, celebrating the 2025 Inspiring Women in CX Awards Winners, Clare Muscutt is joined by Stine Marsal, CEO & Founder of InklusioNordic and Experience Management Consultant, and our Inclusion Award winner!
With unwavering commitment and fierce passion, Stine has devoted her career to breaking down barriers for marginalised people in customer and employee experience. Drawing on her own lived experience and the voices of those too often overlooked, she is a true advocate for designing inclusive journeys that work for everyone.
In this powerful episode, Clare and Stine explore:
- The personal motivation behind Stine’s fight for inclusion and why representation matters
How designing for the edges creates smoother, more accessible experiences for all - The commercial power of inclusion — and why accessibility is as profitable as it is ethical
- Tackling cognitive overload and removing the “burden of explanation” from marginalised customers
- Standing firm in the face of global DEI backlash and why resilience is key
A conversation marked by honesty, passion, and practical insight, this episode demonstrates the power of inclusion in action.
Stine’s story is a rallying call for CX leaders everywhere to put inclusion at the heart of their work – not as an afterthought, but as the foundation of truly great customer experiences.
In this powerful episode of Inspiring Women in CX, Clare Muscutt is joined by Kerry Sudale, a leading CX and Contact Centre recruiter and passionate advocate for inclusive, people-first hiring.
With the market more competitive than ever, Kerry shares her expert insights on why so many talented CX leaders are currently on the open market—and what it really takes to stand out and secure the right role.
Together, Clare and Kerry explore:
- The real reasons behind the CX job market squeeze
- The most common mistakes job seekers make (and how to avoid them)
- How to build a personal narrative that balances confidence with authenticity
- Practical strategies for resilience, self-promotion, and staying visible during a tough search
Kerry also opens up about her own journey, the challenges she’s overcome, and the role that community has played in shaping her career and mission.
Whether you're actively job hunting, navigating uncertainty, or thinking about your next move, this episode is packed with real talk, actionable advice, and inspiration for women in CX at every stage of their career.
In this episode of Inspiring Women in CX, Clare Muscutt speaks with Obi Santos, a passionate CX leader and cross-functional change agent, about one of the biggest challenges facing customer experience professionals today: silos.
Obi shares her perspective on why, despite all the talk about alignment and collaboration, silos still persist—and what it really takes to overcome them.
Together, Clare and Obi explore:
- Why silos are so hard to break—and why they’re still everywhere
- What actually works when it comes to uniting data, teams, and processes
- The common traps that derail CX collaboration
- One powerful change that could help organisations truly deliver joined-up experiences
Obi also reflects on her personal journey, a challenge she’s overcome, and how being part of a community has helped her grow both personally and professionally.
If you’re tired of CX efforts that feel disconnected and want to create real impact, this episode is for you.
In this intimate and inspiring episode, Clare reconnects with Freya Finnerty—agile product leader, CX professional, queer woman, and proud solo mum to baby Fox.
After first working together at Sainsbury’s, the two reconnected when Clare shared her own IVF journey on LinkedIn—opening the door for a conversation that goes far beyond career.
Freya opens up about choosing solo motherhood, navigating IVF as a gay woman, and how her background in agile product management unexpectedly prepared her for the emotional complexity and unpredictability of the journey. With warmth, honesty, and reflection, she explores how becoming a parent has reshaped her sense of identity and leadership.
A must-listen for anyone considering IVF, solo parenthood, or simply doing life—and work—on their own terms.
“They have to start acting like leaders before they actually get the title or get the position. They have to take the opportunities. They have to be curious, agile, flexible.”
In episode #806 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare is joined by Managing Partner Michelle Ansell for a refreshing and honest conversation about the winding road of career progression, the realities of leadership and what it really takes to thrive in a competitive landscape.
Michelle shares her story of navigating a non-linear career path–starting out in insurance, moving into recruitment and eventually launching her own business. She credits her success to persistence, mentorship, and seizing opportunities, even when she didn’t feel completely ready.
Together, Clare and Michelle unpack the myth of the ‘perfect’ career path and why so many women feel pressure to follow a linear trajectory. They discuss women's tendency to undervalue their potential and wait until they feel 100% ready before taking the next step.
Drawing on her extensive recruitment experience, Michele dispels common misconceptions about career growth and highlights the importance of visibility. She shares how learning to feel comfortable being seen and heard can open new doors—and why taking ownership of your career means showing up, speaking up, and trusting your instincts.
🎧 With real talk, practical advice, and empowering insights, this episode is a must-listen for anyone feeling stuck or underestimated in their career. Tune in now!
In episode #003 of the WiCX Talk Trends podcast, Clare is joined by Anne Dawson, seasoned leader and Sr. Manager, Employee Development & Training at CallMiner, for an insightful conversation on the power of mentorship, sponsorship, and leadership in the workplace.
Anne shares her personal journey, from starting in entry-level roles in the telco industry to becoming an advocate for employee development and a champion for women in customer and employee experience. Her story is a powerful reminder of how far determination, passion and the right support can take you.
Clare and Anne explore the differences between mentorship and sponsorship, highlighting how both play an essential role in women’s career advancement. They also touch on the significance of allyship in tackling bias and fostering an inclusive leadership culture that uplifts everyone.
Their conversation emphasises how community support and a personal board of directors provide guidance and perspectives beyond the workplace, which help women navigate their careers with confidence and intention.
This episode is filled with actionable advice on how to build meaningful mentorships, advocate for yourself and pay it forward by supporting others along the way.
If you’re looking to make a lasting impact on your career and empower others in their journey, this episode is a must-listen! Tune in now! 🎧
“There is actually a growing issue called presenteeism. It's when people are showing up at work, but they're either unwell, or they're burnt out, or they are just not able to do their best work. There was a recent survey which was conducted, it's a government survey. And it's shown that presenteeism…has cost UK businesses 25 billion pounds since 2018.”
In episode #805 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare is joined by CEO and Founder Clare White for an insightful and energising conversation about building human-centred organisations through culture, leadership and employee empowerment.
Clare shares her “wiggly” career journey, from a passion project in horse racing to leading large teams and shaping CX at global brands like P&G, Microsoft and Disney. A defining moment came when she led a culture transformation at an organisation struggling with poor performance, unhappy clients, and disengaged employees. This experience sparked her passion for culture and employee experience, reinforcing the vital role of a healthy, supportive work environment and ultimately inspiring her to launch her own company to help others do the same.
She offers game-changing insights into creating workplaces where people thrive, highlighting the power of psychological safety, continuous feedback, and truly empowering employees.
Together, both Clare’s—without the ‘I’—unpack the role of leadership in embedding company values and the real cost of neglecting employee wellbeing, particularly the rise of presenteeism. They also explore the often-overlooked link between customer-facing and back-office teams, revealing why CX success depends on the entire organisation working together—not just those on the frontline.
Tune in now to discover why, if your employees aren’t thriving, your customers won’t either—and what you can do about it.
“I think my piece of advice would be to take a real honest, hard look at…either yourself or your business. If you are communicating that you want to be a customer-centric company or organisation, then take a real honest hard look at, are we actually that?”
In episode #804 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare is joined by CX Consultant Joanna Carr for a candid and insightful discussion on customer experience strategy, the pitfalls of “CX-washing”, and the reality of delivering on brand promises.
Joanna shares her career journey, from beginning behind the tills in Tesco to shaping CX at retail giants including Estee Lauder, Selfridges and Rituals. She also reflects on the community's pivotal role in her transition to CX consulting, proving the power of connection and support.
Clare and Joanna unpack real-world CX failures, from frustrating self-service checkouts to rigid corporate policies that hinder customer satisfaction. They discuss the critical importance of aligning operating models with CX strategy and ensuring that technology is a tool to enhance, not replace human connection.
This conversation serves as a powerful reminder that creating a seamless customer experience isn’t by accident—it takes intention, investment, and a genuine commitment to turning brand promises into reality.
The episode wraps up with a compelling call to action: businesses must take an honest, reflective look at their customer-centricity and ensure they don't make promises they can't keep.
🎧 Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation on building CX strategies that make a real impact and truly deliver for your customers!
“Imposter syndrome normally shows up when you're exposing yourself in a way that you haven't exposed yourself before. And what it's telling you is…'Hey, you're uncomfortable, maybe you need to practice a bit more of this’.”
In episode #803 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare is joined by Executive and Leadership Coach Natalia Cerezo Martin for an honest and empowering conversation about imposter syndrome, emotional intelligence, and building confidence as a CX professional.
Natalia shares her inspiring journey, from boldly transitioning from events to the cybersecurity industry - a space far outside her comfort zone - to starting her own business. She discusses cultivating her “Shine File” as a tool to combat self-doubt and celebrate her wins. Natalia opens up about the emotional challenges of stepping into unfamiliar territory, the value of embracing vulnerability, and the power of asking the right questions to fuel personal growth.
Together, Clare and Natalia explore the realities of imposter syndrome and how it can be a powerful catalyst for success—pushing you to grow, learn, and break through limitations. They discuss the importance of psychological safety on fostering success and how community can be a game-changer. Natalia also reflects on how her connection with WiCX gave her the courage to pivot into coaching and entrepreneurship, proving the transformative power of support and shared experiences.
Packed with relatable stories, actionable tips, and a reminder to trust in your own abilities, this episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to navigate challenges with confidence and step into their full potential. 🎧 Don’t miss it!
“With all the will in the world, you cannot change the organisational strategy. It's not up to you to decide. Even if you are fortunate enough to be on the board, you are a contributor to a decision that other people will have a say on. So contribute effectively.”
In episode #802 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare is joined by Founder and CEO Olga Potaptseva for a thought-provoking conversation on aligning customer-centricity with organisational strategy to drive impactful change.
Olga shares her expertise on uniting people, processes, and technology under a shared purpose, breaking down silos to empower teams and enhance the customer experience. Together, Clare and Olga delve into the human side of transformation—exploring how empathy can bridge departmental gaps and foster innovation and collaboration.
Reflecting on her own leadership journey, Olga opens up about embracing her strengths, nurturing potential in others, and evolving her approach to driving meaningful change.
Packed with practical insights and heartfelt reflections, this episode is a must-listen for leaders and teams striving to build purpose-driven, harmonious workplaces. Tune in to discover how to transform your approach 🎧
“I wanted to leave to almost grow. I was part of the furniture… I didn’t like the feeling of being that. I wanted to have the confidence to step out of the shadows… and believe more in myself.”
In episode #801 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare is joined by Chief Operating Officer Katie Costello for a heartfelt discussion on navigating career transitions, facing redundancy, and turning uncertainty into a powerful opportunity for growth. 💪
Katie shares her personal story of stepping out of her comfort zone after leaving her long-term role at Waitrose. She opens up about the emotional highs and lows of job searching, the importance of self-belief, and how she found clarity by taking things one step at a time.
With practical tips on updating your CV, preparing for interviews, and embracing expert support, Katie offers listeners a roadmap for navigating career changes with patience and self-compassion.
Clare and Katie also explore the power of community and connection - how networking and leaning into professional communities can offer not just practical guidance but also emotional support. Katie’s message is clear: be kind to yourself, seek support, and remember your worth.
This episode is packed with insight, inspiration, and actionable advice for anyone facing change in their career. Don't miss it! 🎧
Can women really have it all? 🫣
In episode #002 of the WiCX Talk Trends Podcast, sponsored by CallMiner, join Clare Muscutt as she talks to Jill Donahue, Senior Director of Business Strategy & Analytics about:
👩💻 Jill's journey to CallMiner and the importance of diverse experiences in career development.
👨 How allyship, especially male allyship, is crucial for advancing gender equality.
💸 The pay gap and the societal expectations that impact women’s career choices and progression.
⚖️ How the pandemic has exacerbated challenges for women, particularly in balancing work and caregiving responsibilities.
⭐ If the 'trad wives' movement reflects a societal shift in how women choose to define their roles.
👭 How mentorship and sponsorship are essential for women's career advancement.
🔮 The future of gender equality and how it relies on changing the system, not just individual behaviour.
On a mission to ensure women are at the centre of important industry conversations, join Clare Muscutt, and inspiring guests as we debate the hottest topics and explore current trends, helping you to stay ahead of the curve of the latest developments shaping customer, employee and women’s experiences.
Interested in being featured on the podcast? Reach out to us at partnerships@womenincx.community.
“The biggest challenge I think the CX industry has got is the fact that it’s become an industry.”
Joined by John Sills, Managing Partner at The Foundation, in episode #709 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, we explore the alarming disparity between the booming CX technology market and actual improvements in the experience felt by customers.
Sharing his perspective on the state of CX today, advocating for real immersion into customers’ lives over endless feedback surveys, and emphasising the role of empathy and understanding over technological solutions, listen to the full episode now.
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today.
Would you rather?
- Clean the bathroom 🧽
- Contact customer service 📞
Joined by Danita Belcher, VP of Sales, Worldwide Contact Center at RingCentral, in episode #001 of the ‘WiCX Talk Trends’ podcast, a new series dedicated to bringing you the latest news and insights from female leaders in CX and technology, we delve into the results of RingCentral’s recent study on customer service experiences, explore the potential upside of AI-enhanced customer service, and foreground some of the challenges associated with integrating AI into customer service operations.🔌
With almost one-fifth of respondents saying they would prefer to deal with a vermin infestation in their home than contact customer service, is it up to AI to save the day? 🤔
Want more? Check out the full survey results here: https://www.ringcentral.com/us/en/blog/can-ai-fix-bad-customer-service/?BMID=CMRCXINMCM
Continuing our mission to amplify the voices of women in CX and technology, sharing diverse perspectives on the latest trends shaping our industry, we’d love to hear from you! If you’d like to be featured on the podcast, please contact us at partnerships@womenincx.community.
Does culture eat strategy when it comes to customer service transformation? 🤔
Joined by Leonie Williams, Co-Founder of Customer Service Solutions Group, in episode #708, we explore the role of culture in delivering excellent service and experiences. 🤝
Having worked for global hotel chains Hilton and Intercontinental before joining the Institute of Customer Service, Leonie states that “If you get the EX and the CX right, the business results follow.” 📈
But for businesses that don’t have this customer service culture already embedded throughout, is it really possible to drive this mindset shift? 🧠
And if so, how?
Emphasising the importance of the “tone from the top”, focusing on systems and processes to facilitate customer orientation (or whatever you want to call it), and questioning whether actually, culture change is too heavy a burden to bear, listen to the full episode now.
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today!
Does the othering of women and minorities contribute to imposter syndrome? 🤔
Following our epic International Women’s Day event in London and expanding on the panel discussion that took place, in episode #707, we talk to Ewa Davenport, CX Senior Transformation Director at Kantar about systemic bias, how often there isn’t malice involved, and using our own power to educate others, call out inappropriate behaviours, and stand up for those less privileged than our selves. 📣
Focusing on imposter syndrome throughout Women’s History Month and beyond, we aim to draw attention to this very real issue, foreground the very real consequences, and by doing so, inspire those who have the power to effect change to join the movement. 🤝
To learn more about our mission and become a member today, visit www.womenincx.community/membership.
Are you ready for the rise of the machine customer? 🤖
With Gartner predicting that by 2027, 50% of us will be using AI personal assistants in our daily lives, they could be here much sooner than anticipated!
Joined by Sirte Pihlaja, CEO of Shirute, listen to episode #706 now as we explore what machine customers are, how they’re set to impact the future of CX and EX, and as CX leaders, what we should be thinking about now to ensure we’re equipped for their arrival.
So, with employees and agents set to interface with AI in the near future, is it machine customer experience that we instead need to be designing for? 🤔
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today!
With fewer barriers today, why aren’t we making the inroads that we should be? 🤔
… that’s the question raised by today’s inspiring woman in CX, the Co-Founder of Neos Wave, Maria McCann.
Citing the stagnant transformation failure rate, a lack of reduction in cost to serve, and declining customer satisfaction, Maria explains why she believes that industrial-sized CX frameworks are to blame. ❌
Sharing a ‘cringe-inducing’ anecdote and shining a light on the state of CX today, in episode #705, Clare and Maria discuss our obsession with metrics and KPIs above and beyond using common sense and providing kind and compassionate service, how frameworks intended to unify and elevate benchmarks are instead killing our creativity, and whether we’re losing sight of the end goal – improving experiences for customers.
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today!
TW: Please note, this incredibly courageous episode contains discussions of abuse and childhood trauma, as such, listener discretion is advised.
If empathy isn’t the answer, what is? 🤔
Joined by Andreena Leeanne, a Lived Experience Speaker and the Author of the poetry book ‘Charred’, in episode #704, she and Clare explore the concept of intersectionality and its importance when creating spaces for others to show up as their full, authentic selves, discuss whether it’s truly possible to empathise with someone whose lived experience is different to that of our own and foreground why “not seeing” race, colour, and gender isn’t enough if we’re to create a kinder, more inclusive world for everyone. ❌
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today.
“What do you need Women in CX for?” 🤷♂️
In episode #703 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, we’re not prancing around…
Joined by Global CX Specialist, Ian Golding, he and Clare discuss the need for support and collaboration in an industry that often leaves us feeling isolated, foreground the importance of recognising our own privilege, and address the scepticism surrounding the need for women’s communities in 2024.
As well as explaining why we can’t wait for the day that Women in CX doesn’t have to exist, Ian shares his thoughts on today’s “highly political and divisive” CX landscape, whether current CX competencies are a rod for our own back, and ponders the question “In its current state, is CX on the road to extinction?”. 🤔
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today!
Why is CX failing, and as leaders, what can we do about it? 🤔
With some “cheeky” questions for former CEO of the CXPA, Diane Magers, in episode #702, Clare and Diane debate the metrification of CX and how it’s become synonymous with a score, the mindset, skills and capabilities we need as CX leaders to succeed not just today but in the next generation, and how we can create clear business value in the here and now, ensuring, that like marketing and sales, our jobs are safe.
So, rather than a focus on lagging indicators, NPS and certification, how can we be proactive, collaborate, and adapt to the business problem to meet the customers’ needs and demonstrate the financial impact of the experience too? 💲
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today!
What’s Beanboozled got to do with customer experience?
Armed with disposable lab coats and with the warning sign in place, in episode one of our fully reloaded, increasingly audacious new series, Sandra Thompson details all about her “highly sensory” employee experience workshop and how, through a game of bean roulette, she served up a stark reminder to us all about the taste we leave in customers/employees’ mouths.
As well as highlighting the importance of psychological safety and the significant impact that our actions have on others, Sandra shares her thoughts on the current state of CX, her predictions for 2024 and explains why brushing up on our business acumen is key if we’re to influence the agenda.
To join the world’s first online community for women in customer experience and technology, visit www.womenincx.community/membership and sign up today!
“All complex problems are solvable when you really understand the flow of value to the person being designed for […] it makes the complexity start to fall away quite quickly because you’ve got something to anchor in that is very real.”
In episode #609 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Christine Hemphill, Founder and Managing Director at Open Inclusion, about…
👂 Her experiences working in the mining, shipping, and banking industries and how CX and listening to the customer were woven throughout her career
♿ How her own personal experience gave her a real understanding of the breadth of human diversity and disability
❌ Founding Open Inclusion and setting out to challenge the dichotomy that experiences can either be delightful or accessible – but not both
🔗 The definition of inclusive CX and how different dimensions of our identity profoundly change our experience of disability
👣 The exclusion footprint and the importance of being conscious of our own when making business decisions
🤔 The limitations of current practices and what CX practitioners can do to make insights more accurate to the breadth of customers’ experiences
🧑 Her thoughts on ‘inclusive personas’ and how these are actually in danger of misinforming design
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
“All of us are people, and if on a personal level, we don't follow principles or values of health and well-being, it’s very difficult to build a corporate culture of well-being in our companies. So, I believe that personal and organisational are very much related.”
In episode #608 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Marina Bezuglova, the Executive Director of Healthcare, CEE, at Ipsos, about…
📚 How she found her way into the Women in CX community and found help and support in publishing and translating her book
⚕️ Her background in Psychology, holding a PhD in Medicine, and how an interdisciplinary approach allows for the formation of new knowledge and innovative solutions
🤝 Combining her interest in research, medicine and people working in social and market research at GfK, before becoming a top manager and leading the development of customer experience research and continuous improvement
🗯️ Growing from “useful crises” and the importance of being a mindful and empathetic leader, particularly in times of disruption and transformation
❌ The relationship between stress and creativity and how if we neglect our most basic needs, we’re unable to negate mental blockers and develop out-of-the-box solutions
🗣️ The role that both cognitive and emotional empathy play in decision-making and how storytelling can bring the customer/patient’s reality into focus
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
“It's true that one of the biggest fears is when you decide that you want to do things differently, you don't want to be in a system where you're stuck to two walls, especially when you become freelance and you say, from now on, I just depend on myself.”
In episode #607 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Sonia Etxebarria, Founder and Strategist at Akuyari, about…
👭 How she made her way into the Women in CX community and went on to found her own customer-centric design agency, Akuyari, collaborating with other members to do so
👩💼 Working in Telco and Logistics before making the leap from corporate to entrepreneurship and doing things her own way
💪 The importance of recognising the value that you bring and playing to your strengths to win in business
🗣️ Challenging the negative connotation around ‘selling’ and self-promotion, particularly as women
🎨 Her passion for service and experience design, the importance of research and discovery, and fashioning her own methodology
💬 Why it’s critical to conduct qualitative research to understand feelings and motivations and use quantitative research to validate findings
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
“P is the positive emotion, but that's short-lived. What we want is that lasting impact. So, we want to be thinking about other elements of well-being that will help our products and services have that lasting, ongoing impact that means people love using them.”
In episode #606 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Susannah Simmons, The Software Adoption Doctor, about…
👩💻 Her career journey so far and how her ability to ‘make the complex simple’ enables her to support software companies “to do a better job”
💭 Working on both the customer and supplier side of software adoption and how this experience informs her approach
🗣️ Challenging her introversion by stepping outside of her comfort zone and having to fight for credibility as a woman despite her expertise
🤔 The difference between experience and well-being and why it’s important that businesses consider customer, user, and employee well-being when implementing technology
🤝 Practical steps that businesses can take to consider user well-being in change management to support ‘commitment, not compliance’ and reduce the threat
🚀 How, through considering user well-being, we’re able to think beyond just the transactional level and create products and services that enrich lives
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
“As a woman, I didn't behave, act, or talk like my male counterparts. Oftentimes, I was the note taker, or the one coordinating beverages, but the silver lining… I was in the room, I was hearing the conversations, and she who controls the pen controls the actions.”
In episode #605 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Lauretta Campestre, Associate Vice President, Success Strategy at CallMiner, about…
📞 Her career journey so far, starting out on the frontline at a debt collection agency, quickly realising her skill and desire to help others, and working her way up to Client Success
👩💻 Making the move from contact centres to software and tech and how she leaned upon her own resourcefulness and resilience during the transition
📊 Connecting the dots between conversations that happen in the contact centre and how CX professionals can leverage this data to inform their CX strategy
🏫 Dropping out of school, entering the workplace at 17 and how her gender and inexperience shaped peoples’ perception of her
👭 How women are shaping the future of CX and Tech through diverse collaboration and the role that women’s communities play in this
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
“I experience the world as a black woman; can a white man fully empathise with that experience? Probably not.”
To what extent are we able to empathise with a person who looks different from ourselves or has a different lived experience from that of our own? 🤔
Well, that’s just one of the discussion points raised in the latest episode of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast!
In episode #604 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Ejieme Eromosele, GM, EMEA at Quiq, about…
📰 Taking calculated risks, discovering Customer Success as a career path, and her role in driving digital transformation at The New York Times
⛔ Her perfectionism and desire to make her parents proud and the debilitating impact of this
🧠 The importance of emotional intelligence and managing your own emotions and activations as a leader
🤖 How advances in technology are actually allowing us more time to ‘be human’ and to connect with one another
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
In episode #603 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Samantha Conyers, the Chief Experience Officer at EXCO, about…
🇹🇹 Pioneering CX in the Caribbean and the growth of the industry in recent years
🧰 Her practical approach to CX having led, designed, and implemented experiences from scratch
🗯️ The negative reputation that surrounds the term ‘consultant’ within the region
⚖️ Bootstrapping, burnout, micro-managing in the pursuit of perfection, and the elusive work-life balance
⏩ Implementing AI to ‘shorten the route’ to human connection and empower agents and employees
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
In episode #602 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Charlotte Kennett, the Senior Director of Global Customer Experience at SS&C Blue Prism, about…
✨ Embracing your uniqueness and using it to your advantage
🤝 The relationship between CX and Marketing
👩💼 The importance of authenticity, especially in leadership roles
👨👩👧👦 Federating communities and accelerating the time to value
📊 How metrics indicate that the work being done is tangibly improving revenue
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership.
⚡ Season 6 is here ⚡
In episode #601 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Natasha den Dekker, the Lead User Researcher at Santander, about…
🆚 The similarities and differences between CX and UX and the intersections between them both
🪓 The various disciplines User Experience is split into and what those roles look like
🆘 How failure is one of life’s biggest lessons and is vital for our personal development
🗣️ The importance of being an assertive leader and using modal verbs to communicate more efficiently
🤝 Embracing and celebrating our diversity and the unique insight it brings to CX/UX
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
In episode #510 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to DeAnna Avis, Founder of Starfish CX and Engagement Lead at Watch This Sp_ce, about…
💼 Her impressive career trajectory from working at Teledyne e2v and leading the CX transformation at Solus ARC (Aviva) to becoming an independent consult
🤝 Her integrative approach to coaching and how this enables her to view the ‘whole’ person
🙋♀️ Her experience as a Mexican American immigrant and how this informs her passion for blending CX and DEI to drive positive change
⚠️ The fundamental issues surrounding identify that need to be addressed and how Customer Experience professionals can pave the way for change
✨ Embracing the concept of being an intrapreneur – creating a vision for yourself, and your future, and stepping into it
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
In episode #509 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Fiona Blades, the President and Chief Experience Officer at MESH Experience, about…
📱 Participation Marketing and the deep impression this leaves on consumers
🎼 Viewing Brand Experience as an orchestrated score of multiple components that construct the brand in someone’s mind
🔤 Utilising text technology to reverse engineer Brand Experience and tailor investment
📊 How the experiences of today impact the metrics of tomorrow
🔮 The future of CX and how it lies in Share of Experience and agile working
Do you understand which areas of your brand resonate most with customers? If so, do you tailor your investments to this? Let us know in the comments! ⬇️
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
In episode #508 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt talks to Kristin Haynes, the CEO of Senyah Projects, about…
🤝 Her experience with Capability Co and their work on the shift from job titles to innate human capabilities
📃 How the Human Capability Standards are ensuring the workforce of tomorrow is focused on skills such as innovation, creativity, and leadership
🎯 Teaching young people to focus on their core skills to provide direction, rather than feeling pigeonholed by traditional education systems
🗣️ The importance of coaching in leadership and how leaders should embody vulnerability and courage
🔑 The three key levers essential for businesses to succeed and how they can be adapted for the workforce of the future
What are the innate human capabilities that make you effective in your role? Let us know in the comments below! ⬇️
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Lynn Hunsaker, the Chief Customer Officer at ClearAction Continuum, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her route into CX, overcoming shyness and allowing herself the permission to speak, the power of community and networking (getting out what you put in), and the operational and execution silos that exist within our organisations.
Listen in to the full episode as Lynn talks about…
👂 Her route into CX and role as a VoC Manager
🗣️ Finding her voice in typically male-dominated environments
💸 Reducing the need for remedial customer experience investments
🚧 The organisational silos that exist and the role we play as CX professionals in “smoothing” these
💡 Her 4 universal tips for engaging stakeholders and securing “win-win-wins”
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Crystal D’Cunha, President & CEO at The INSIDE View Inc., joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her WiCX journey so far, including coming on board as a Founding Member prior to our official launch and being a part of our early co-design phase, her route into CX, always putting her “team members” first, regardless of her role or title, applying DEI best practices, the similarities and difference between EX and CX Design, the importance of the onboarding experience, igniting leaders first to ensure that they’re properly equipped to lead, and the ROI of EX and EX metrics.
Listen in to the full episode as Crystal talks about…
💭 Challenging her own self-limiting beliefs on her route to becoming a ‘mompreneur’
🔥 Igniting leaders and exciting employees
🎨 The importance of EX Design from the point of interviewing, onboarding and throughout
🚀 Ensuring, as organisations, that we’re “good enough” to secure top talent
🤝 The similarities, differences and overlaps in EX and CX design principals
📊 The ROI of EX and EX metrics to consider
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Melissa Moore, Founder of The Retail Advisor, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about the moment she realised she’d been in CX all along, putting on her “brave pants” and launching her own podcast, ‘The Retail Tea Break’, the disjunct that exists between those in the “ivory tower” and our frontline workers, and how we must engage, empower, and listen to our frontline workers if we wish to ensure long-term success in business.
Listen in to the full episode as Melissa talks about…
👣 Her route into CX and realising she’s put the customer at the heart all along
🛒 Starting out on the shop floor and how this ‘operational grounding’ informs her role today
🚧 The disjunct between the ‘ivory tower’ and those working on the frontline (and how the pandemic accentuated the sense of ‘us versus them’)
💥 Experiencing bullying within the workplace and how she channelled this pain into power
🤝 Why we need more “joined-up” thinking to engage and empower our employees long-term
✍️ The importance of focusing upon qualitative and quantitative research, and service KPIs, as opposed to ‘productivity measures’
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Agnes So, the Head of Customer Support and Engagement at HotDoc, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her route into CX, starting in customer service, her lightbulb moment that subsequently sparked her passion for Customer Experience, feeling like a failure when making the difficult decision to deprioritise her art, before realising ‘art’ within CX through storytelling, problem-solving, and inspiring and engaging others, and her drive and determination to make a real impact within the health tech space in Australia.
Listen in to the full episode as Agnes talks about…
💡 The lightbulb moment that sparked her passion for CX
🎨 Deprioritising her art practice before realising the art and science of CX
💥 How the pandemic created a shift in patient behaviour and accelerated the adoption of digital
📱 HotDoc’s mission to become the “Uber of Healthcare”, creating a seamless, end-to-end experience for the customer
🙋♀️ The future of health tech, empowering patients to take control
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Alex Acosta, CX Quantitative Analyst at DICK's Sporting Goods, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk not only about her route into CX, having her sight set on consumer insights and her passion for using data to tell stories and influence senior stakeholders, but also a subject much closer to home, overcoming childhood abuse and living with an eating disorder.
With Monday the 10th of October recognised as World Mental Health Day, in this episode Alex shares a powerful message, not just for leaders, but for everyone, and that is “to lead with empathy”, create a culture of openness and honesty that enables employees – people – to show up each day as their full selves and to feel safe in sharing their challenges.
Because we never know what someone else is going through.
So, this week, and every other, be kind.
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Anne Gray, the Managing Director at Solutioneers, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her route into CX, recognising a golden thread of excellence woven throughout all of her roles, the importance of not just good but consistent customer service, her journey to motherhood and infertility struggles, finally allowing herself to be at peace, finding support on her solopreneur journey with someone “just a few steps ahead” and her research into Digital Transformation and measuring a transformation’s success.
Listen in as Anne talks about…
🧵 The ‘golden thread of excellence’ woven throughout her career
💯 The importance of consistently good service in maintaining brand reputation
🧪 Her research in the field of Digital Transformation and measuring a transformation’s success
👶 Her infertility journey and how her life came to a standstill for almost 10 years
✨ Finding your peace and being unafraid to reinvent yourself
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
TW: Discussion of abuse and childhood trauma. Listener discretion is advised.
In episode #414, Clare is joined by CX Design & Career Coach, Amélie Beerens, for what is both a challenging and inspiring conversation.
Suffering from what she believed to be burnout from work, Amélie recalls being diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) as a result of childhood trauma.
Confiding in one another, Clare and Amélie recall similarities in their experiences of trauma, discuss the enduring impact and share their individual journeys towards healing.
Because our experiences of abuse do not define us.
Listen in as they talk about…
🚩 The symptoms of PTSD and how it manifests
🤝 Seeking professional support to heal
🧠 Recognising trauma and the impact on relationships
💬 The importance of finding safe spaces to talk
💕 Hope, resilience and realising that trauma is not a life sentence
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Olga Potaptseva, Founding Director of the European Customer Consultancy, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about how her university studies sparked her interest in customer research, how she came to (somewhat serendipitously!) lead a loyalty development programme at GfK, aligning CX with the business strategy, failing forwards (in life and in CX!), what it means to be a ‘customer-enabled’ organisation and her advice to women in CX about creating the life that you want.
Listen in as she talks about…
🔬 How studying Marketing and Economics sparked her interest in Customer Research
🙋♀️ Leading a loyalty development programme at GfK, before rolling out a global methodology
📊 Utilising customer data and insights to deliver business results
✨ The importance of self-belief in crafting the career and the life that you want
🤔 What it means to be a ‘customer-enabled’ organisation
📚 Her library of CX ‘micro-actions’ – things we can implement with virtually no budget
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Ellie Sutton, the Senior Customer Experience Lead at Waitrose & Partners, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about Anthropology as a route into CX, realising that she had a different way of doing things, knitting together customers and operations, being her own advocate in a male-dominated environment and how she used this to her advantage, the importance of brand as a key differentiator, how digital and retail are no longer distinct business units and how we must harness digital to enhance our propositions.
Listen in as Ellie talks about…
🧠 Studying Anthropology – why people think the way that they do – before moving into food retail as a graduate trainee
🤔 How she approached things differently, listening to customer feedback and “knitting” this together with operations
🙋♀️ Being her own advocate and viewing CX in supermarket retail through a female lens
🛍️ Post-pandemic shopping habits and the acceleration of digital – using this to enhance propositions
📈 CX, service and proposition design, cherry-picking experiential elements and integrating these into a mass-market
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
BONUS CONTENT!
In episode #411 of the Inspiring Women in CX podcast, Clare Muscutt and Digital Experience Strategist, Anna Noakes Schulze take on the Metaverse! 🤖
Listen in as Anna talks about what the Metaverse is, where the term first came from, Gen Alpha as the “gateway drug”, the connection between Web3 and the Metaverse, and the complex terminology surrounding the tech at play (we’re taking it back to basics), and the impact of Web3 and the Metaverse on Customer Experience as a whole – what it means to us as CX professionals and practitioners and what we need to know to stay ahead of the game!
Don’t get left behind! Listen in closely as they…
🤔 Discuss what the Metaverse actually is
🗯️ Unpick complex jargon surrounding the technologies at play (5G, blockchain, NFT… 🤯)
🔦 Shed light on the recent “crypto controversies”
👉 Highlight the impact and the implications of the Metaverse on Customer Experience
🧠 And share a number of ways that we can increase our own knowledge and understanding in this space
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community/membership
Chelsea Costelloe, the Chief Excitement Officer at EXCO, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about co-founding the Caribbean’s first all-female-led CX consulting agency, the positive shift in the region as more CX titles are appearing, facing scepticism as a young, female director, gender equality in the Caribbean, experiencing sexist comments in the workplace and how, if ignored, these ‘blurred’ lines can become much more insidious and utilising journey mapping as a tool, as opposed to a goal in itself, to spur action, inspire your teams and avoid the dreaded journey mapping ‘burnout’.
Listen in as Chelsea talks about…
🤝 Co-founding the Caribbean’s first all-female-led CX consulting agency, EXCO
🙋♀️ Being a ‘Chief Excitement Officer’ (and what the role entails)
📚 The state of CX in the Caribbean and her personal mission to drive CX awareness and education in the region
🗯️ Gender equality, gender-based violence and experiencing sexist comments in the workplace
🛠️ Journey Mapping as a tool to achieve your goals, not a goal in itself
😩 Journey Mapping “burnout” and how to avoid it
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Serena Riley, the Vice President of Experience Management at SkySpecs and the Founder and CEO of Joy & Moxie joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about starting out in IT – a typically male-dominated environment – her role as the VP of Experience Management within a start-up and navigating the scale-up phase, building her personal brand, Joy & Moxie, her mission to empower women to design for the future that they want, becoming a role model for her young daughter, removing the barriers that she faced for the future generation of female leaders and leaning into your own power by being who you truly are.
Listen in as Serena talks about…
💻 Starting out in IT before “maxing out” and needing something to reignite her fire
📞 CX and customer support in a tech start-up and the scaling-up phase
👭 Stumbling upon the Women in CX community on LinkedIn and feeling immediately aligned
🙅♀️ Being a “people-pleaser” and beating her perfectionism
💪 Becoming a role model for her daughter and being able to help her to get where she wants to go “quicker and easier”
♀️ The differences in the way that we parent owing to gender and the impact that this has
✨ The importance of being yourself and acknowledging that you have the power to design the future that you want
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Gemma Colby, the Head of Customer Experience at YELL UK, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her route into CX, recognising only in retrospect that she’d been doing it all along, putting theory into practice as she ran a contact centre, her own experiences with great leaders and how these shaped her approach and, in her opinion, the key skills and capabilities necessary to be a successful CX leader driving changes and improvements that impact the business’s bottom line.
Listen in as Gemma talks about...
🔮 Being ‘predestined’ to work in CX, realising only in retrospect that she’d been doing it all along
😊 Starting out in operations and wielding her passion for people to make customers feel special
🙅♀️ Combatting her Imposter Syndrome and redefining what success “should” look like
🧠 Adopting a growth mindset and how creating a sense of “interconnectedness” is key to being a great (CX) leader
💬 The importance of trusting ourselves and recognising what “drives and drains us”
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Naima Mwina Mwawasi, the Founder & Managing Director of Content CX Consulting, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her CX journey – from working on the frontline as an Inflight Manager at Emirates to founding her own CX consultancy – experiencing CX within different countries and cultures and how this sparked her desire to raise the bar in Kenya, being ‘derailed’ by love at a young age and dropping out of school before returning to complete not only her undergraduate but her Master’s degree too and dealing with disapproval as she challenged African society’s rigid gender roles.
Listen in as Naima talks about…
🛫 Her CX career journey, from working on the frontline at Emirates to founding Content CX Consulting
🗺️ How experiencing CX and service delivery within different countries and cultures sparked her desire to raise the bar in Kenya
💍 Being ‘derailed’ by love, consequently dropping out of school and getting married at 21
🙋 How – from humble beginnings and with her parents as her inspiration – she became a financially independent woman “slaying life” and following her dreams
📈 The current state of CX in Kenya and the impact of sudden economic growth, rising customer expectations and technological advancement
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Thirza Schaap, the Founder of CX Unraveled, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about taking a leap of faith as she left her role in corporate and co-founded her own CX consultancy, talking with a psychologist about juggling motherhood and work – and what this looked like for her – the 7 factors key to achieving sustainable ‘customer-obsessed’ culture, including identifying those onside, those unlikely to be convinced and those sitting on the fence about Customer Experience and its impact upon an organisation and about the importance of empowering frontline staff through the communication of strategy, training and rewards.
Key talking points include…
💪 How Thirza ‘took the plunge’, leaving her corporate role and co-founding CX consultancy, CX Unraveled
⚖️ Discussing “mum-guilt” and what a healthy work-life balance looked like for Thirza
📋 Outlining the 7 factors key to achieving a ‘customer-obsessed’ culture, including the importance of empowering frontline employees and targeting those “in the middle”
🤔 Thirza’s advice on where to start when creating culture change within your own organisation, analysing your current state and identifying areas for improvement.
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Elena Rozanova, the Head of Customer Relations at Rosbank and Women in CX community member, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about escaping the war in Ukraine and the realities experienced by Ukrainian female refugees.
Elena was in Kharkiv when the war started and spent a week living in bomb shelters with a friend and her daughter before beginning the journey to Poland as a refugee herself.
In this episode, she shares her lived experience and calls on other CX specialists to use their skills to aid crisis efforts and help refugees to settle in new countries.
Listen in as Elena…
👉 Recounts her own experience fleeing Ukraine under the constant threat of bombardment
👉 Shares the contrasts in humanity she experienced as a refugee
👉 Discusses empathy for others in light of her escape, not as a Customer Experience professional, but as a ‘Human Experience’ professional
👉 Puts forward how CX thinking can help in crisis situations, mitigating fear and uncertainty for those affected
👉 Highlights what we can all do to help, from offering accommodation to removing language barriers
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Stine Ringvig Marsal, the Founder & CEO of Experience Management Consult, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about ‘tripping’ into CX (didn’t we all!), her passion for Service Design, how to ‘do’ CX and make it work without having an astronomical budget, combatting the ‘fluffy bullsh*t’ to reclaim credibility as an industry and viewing CX as a ‘support function’ as opposed to a religion or culture.
Bye-bye CX blabber!
Key talking points include…
🧰 How Stine applies her Sociologist’s toolbox to CX
🎢 Her journey to becoming Tivoli Garden’s first-ever Customer Experience Manager
🤝 The importance of ‘fusing’ employee and customer experience in a regulated industry
💡 How her own life experiences enabled her to ‘step out’ of the mainstream
🙅♀️ Why, as practitioners, we must challenge how CX ‘should’ be done
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Hayley Pugh, Senior Research Executive at Kantar, UK, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her journey into CX via a Graduate scheme and trialling different rotations, thriving in a sink-or-swim scenario, ‘embracing’ uncertainty, her passion for UX and the pillars necessary for businesses to provide seamless omnichannel experiences – particularly with ever-changing consumer expectations in the digital space! Thank you, Amazon!
Key talking points include discussing…
🎓 Graduate schemes as a route into CX
💥 The boom of digital transformation since the pandemic
✅ Meeting customer expectations at every touchpoint (and identifying barriers!)
📳 The pillars necessary to deliver seamless omnichannel experiences
🤖 The consequences of cutting corners in tech implementation
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to womenincx.community
Liz Berks, Co-Founder of 4Sight CX, Saudi Arabia, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about her journey from Market Research and Insights into CX, the ‘energy and drive’ for Citizen Experience in Saudi Arabia, the dangers of an over-reliance on surveys, ethnographic research and the emerging technologies available to us, and the difference between a VoC programme and the ‘true meaning’ of customer voice.
Key talking points include discussing…
🛠️ The development of CX in Saudi Arabia
💬 The use of qualitative insight to drive CX
📳 How mobile ethnography and ‘insight communities’ can help organisations to build a comprehensive picture of who their customers really are
🙅♀️ And how to leverage the data available to you to get closer to customers, even when you have zero budget
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to www.womenincx.community
Jennie Lewis, Strategic Services Lead at Airship, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX podcast to talk about navigating the CX tech space as a woman, finding her niche – understanding not only the technology but the customer perspective too – and dealing with dismissal by finding her voice and ‘partnering up’.
Key talking points include discussing …
🤖 The challenges faced by women in tech
🤝 Driving customer centricity in SaaS companies
💡 Applying the principles of Design Thinking
🤨 And how to be more customer focused in product-led environments
For more information on joining the world’s first online community for women in Customer Experience, head over to womenincx.community
womenintech #womenincx #saas
Sarah Sargent, Director of Customer Services at Swan Housing Group, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX Podcast to discuss her own CX journey, beginning in hospitality, how she challenged traditional gender roles and paved her own way to success despite societal expectation and resistance, and how she now draws upon this personal strength and past experience in order to action CX initiatives within the housing and not-for-profit sector.
Additionally, Sarah talks about how the Grenfell Tower tragedy sparked change within the social housing sector, the importance of co-creation and community engagement in centralising the voice of the customer, and also how we can harness data and tech as a tools to deliver value for the customer, employee and business.
Tune in to hear them talk about:
👉 Hospitality as a pathway to CX.
👉 The switch from business to customer measures.
👉 Challenging traditional gender roles.
👉 CX in the housing and not-for-profit sector.
👉 How the Grenfell Tower tragedy sparked change.
👉 The importance of co-creation and community engagement groups.
👉 The challenges presented by data (or lack of!).
👉 Breaking down the stigma surrounding social housing.
👉 Harnessing digital to support customers.
👉 Sarah’s advice for women in CX.
For more information about how you can join the world's first online community for women in customer experience, visit www.womenincx.community
Adi Tobias, Head of Customer Experience Strategy & Operations at Uber, joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX Podcast to discuss her own unpredictable pathway into CX, how she dismissed existing boundaries to carve out her own role, and the importance of CX agility in platform-based businesses. She also examines how, retrospectively, her ADHD diagnosis was a catalyst for where she is now: feeling blessed to have a brain that thinks differently when it comes to CX.
Tune in to hear them discuss:
👉 Blank-sheet-of-paper CX jobs
👉 Hybrid approaches to CX
👉 CX in platform-based businesses
👉 The power of test-and-learn in CX
👉 Being diagnosed with ADHD
👉 Neurodivergence as a CX superpower
👉 Coping skills for living in a neurotypical world
👉 Building neurodiverse teams
👉 The importance of finding a sponsor
👉 The power of partnering with different thinkers
👉 Adi’s advice for businesses to create equity and inclusion.
For more information about how you can join the world's first online community for women in customer experience, visit www.womenincx.community!
Gita Samani, Director of Strategy at Astound Commerce joins Clare Muscutt on the Inspiring Women in CX Podcast to discuss Digital Transformation from a CX point of view and how to avoid the pitfalls of making technology led decisions and evolve your tech stack to enhance customer and employee experience. In this episode Clare and Gita talk about their similarities as women in tech, including experiencing the perils of perfectionism that led them to both recently experiencing burnout. Tune in to hear them discuss:
- How Gita got into CX
- The relationship between Business Analysis and CX
- The challenges with digital transformation
- How to stop CX being the outcome of technology choices
- How to make tech drive customer, employee and business value
- The importance of delivering brand through digital touchpoints
- How to avoid technology-led decisions
- Evolving your tech stack to enhance customer and employee experience
- Managing burn out
- The pandemic impact
- Overwhelm, perfectionism and retesting priorities
- The importance of self care
- The difference between being selfish and setting boundaries
- Gita’s advice for women in CX
To find out more about joining the Women in CX community, visit www.womenincx.community
Sarah Curran-Usher MBE joins Women in CX Founder and podcast host Clare Muscutt to discuss the evolution of retail customer experience from bricks-and-mortar to pure-play online stores over her 20 years working in the fashion industry. From the importance of getting the basics right to the opportunities presented by the latest data and technology advances, this podcast highlights what it takes to 'sell' CX to senior leaders by balancing the emotional and commercial aspects of CX initiatives, and vitally discusses the need for more women at board level who appreciate the balance required to support decisions that value people as much as numbers.
Tune in to hear more about: - The moments that shaped Sarah's career - How she embraced her 'disruptive' nature - Using her different thinking to fuel success as an entrepreneur - The highs and lows of starting, scaling, and selling her own business - Becoming an 'entrepreneur in residence' - The dangers of CX 'gimmicks' - Acquisition vs retention in retail - How to get C-suite onboard - The differences in female leadership - Balancing customer, brand, and commercial priorities - Using behavioural customer data to drive better decisions - Developing your own resilience - Sarah's advice for women in CX
You can find out how to join the world's first online membership community for women interested in CX by visiting www.womenincx.community
Amy Cashman, CEO of Kantar UK's Insights Division, joins Women in CX Founder and podcast host Clare Muscutt to discuss the importance of establishing 'red lines' to create work–life balance, challenging the perception of female senior leadership to set positive examples for women in the workplace, and how brand values impact both the customer and the employee experience.
“Lean into who you are and don’t feel that you have to change to be successful.”
The conversation also delves into…
• The evolution of CX insights
• How brands can amplify or undermine women’s confidence
• The creation of proof-points to deliver on brand promise
• How Amy reached CEO level
• Using CX to create (and to prove) ROI for organisations
• How to create environments within which women thrive
• How evidence of D&I is more important than brand statements
• The importance of authenticity
Visit https://womenincx.community/ for more inspiring content, and to find out how to join the world's first online membership community for women in customer experience.
womeninbusiness #ceo #customerexperience #research #insights #kantar #womenincx #womenincxpodcast #inspiringwomen #inspiringwomenincx #femalelead #leadership #cx
Have you ever felt excluded? Been interrupted? Or felt shamed?
We have all felt this way at one time or another. But for minorities, this can be a regular occurrence.
Thankfully businesses now recognise the value of diversity and inclusion.
❌ But inclusion isn't an HR policy, D&I training or a hiring initiative.
❌ It isn’t flying rainbow flags during PRIDE.
✔️ Inclusion is creating a space and culture which enables all employees to feel safe to fully bring themselves to work.
✔️ To be seen, heard and celebrated for our differences, and valued for who we are.
My awesome guest on the podcast this week, Lara Hussblebee, identifies as a Queer Woman in CX and came on the show to share how she is using Design Thinking and Human Centred Design to help companies understand and empathise with minority groups, on her mission to include the excluded.
This episode reminds us that the most powerful way to include others is to remember the feeling you experienced, at the moment you felt excluded, and connect with it.
As the most fundamental capability needed to include others is quite simply, Empathy.
The biggest barrier to get over is often language.
Not feeling awkward talking and avoiding conversations ‘just incase I say the wrong thing’
Lara talked passionately about the positive intent to include others being the most important thing.
We all feel awkward when we are more worried about what to say. So let’s lean into that feeling, start the conversation, feel for one another, ask questions and simply listen
Tune in to hear us geek out on CX Design, and talk about:
🌈 Finding our way into CX
🌈 Design Thinking and Human-Centred Design
🌈 The similarities and difference between design disciplines
🌈 The Future of CX
🌈 Being a proud queer woman in CX
🌈 Usability - serving practical needs
🌈 Empathy - serving emotional needs
🌈 Empathy and Gender
🌈 LGBTQ employee experience
🌈 Rainbow Youth
🌈 Co-creation with minority groups
🌈 Intersectional feminism
🌈 Including the excluded through HCD
🌈 Using our skills to support charities
🌈 Maxing communities stronger through HCD
🌈 Helping minority groups feel heard, seen and celebrated
🌈 What it means to be a great ally
LGBTQ #inclusion #humancentreddesign #designthinking #queerwomenincx #customerexperience #employeeexperience #diversity #womenincx #femaleentrepreneurs #inspiringwomen #womeninbusiness #womenentrepreneurs #girlboss #howtobeawesomeatcx #womenempowerment #womensupportingwomen #womeninbusiness #womenownedbusiness #girlpower #femaleboss #podcast #womenincxpodcast #womenincxcommunity #claremuscutt
“To break the cycle of female rivalry, we have to believe there is more than one seat at the table"
Female rivalry happens when a woman uses her power to keep another woman down, mistreats her, or competes unfairly.
Here are some from my own experience:
🙅🏼♀️ Being told by my manager to not share my thoughts and opinions in meetings or with the big boss.
🙅🏼♀️ A colleague who took full-credit for my work.
🙅🏼♀️ A senior manager took me to a side room to attack me until I was in tears.
🙅🏼♀️ Confiding in a peer about about a difficult stakeholder, who then told my boss I was “having trouble building relationships.”
It was great to have my latest guest Sharon Boyd on the show, to talk about our more difficult experiences, but even more awesome to talk how the community of women we find ourselves in now, is completely challenging the stereotype.
Tune in to hear us talk about:
💻 The lack of female role models in corporate
💻 Challenging stereotypes of female competition
💻 How amazing the CX community is
💻 Finding a mentor
💻 The importance of male allies
💻 The Internet of Things (IoT)
💻 CX in Facilities Management (FM)
💻 What it was like taking an MBA
💻 The benefits of coaching
💻 Other ways to invest in yourself
We love being Women in CX!!
To find out more, please subscribe to our channels:
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femalecompetition #moreseatsatthetable #zwomensupportingwomen #womenincx #femaleentrepreneurs #inspiringwomen #womeninbusiness #womenentrepreneurs #girlboss #howtobeawesomeatcx #womenempowerment #womensupportingwomen #womeninbusiness #womenownedbusiness #girlpower #femaleboss #podcast #womenincxpodcast #womenincxcommunity #claremuscutt
Talking about founding the first 100% black-owned customer experience consultancy in South Africa, giving back, speaking your truth, and using CX design as a strategic asset to strengthen township economies.
‘Apartheid’ and ‘Ubuntu’ are two South African words voiced in this week’s podcast that couldn’t be more different in meaning.
‘Apartheid’ is Afrikaans for separateness and was coined to describe the white supremacist regime of institutionalised segregation that existed until as recently as 1994.
Whilst ‘Ubuntu’ means humanity and oneness.
Ubuntu’s roots are in the Xhosa phrase ‘umntu ngumntu ngabantu’ that means "I am, because you are", and reflects the collective consciousness central to a 2000 year old humanist African philosophy.
It makes you think, doesn’t it?
My guest this week, the magnificently inspiring Mandisa Makubalo, grew up in the post-arpatheid Townships of Cape Town and has since dedicated her career to speaking her truth and healing divides, using her CX skills to unite the City and Township economies.
Tune in to her Mandisa talk about:
💖 Healing the separation caused by Apartheid
💖 Growing up in the townships of Cape Town
💖 Breaking stereotypes of black-owned business
💖 Losing everything and starting again
💖 Changing the definition of success
💖 Social and economic separation
💖 The rise of the ‘Black Diamonds’
💖 Using CX to heal social problems
💖 The power of speaking your truth
💖 Developing faith in times of struggle
💖 Giving back to your community
💖 Supporting young people to achieve social and economic mobility
This is a very special episode, indeed...
Read more and subscribe to our channels:
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Twitter https://bit.ly/3fzxLD2
apartheid #townships #southafrica #capetown #inspiringwomen #womensupportingwomen #inspiringwomen #customerexperience #womenincx #femaleentrepreneurs #inspiringwomen #womeninbusiness #womenentrepreneurs #girlboss #howtobeawesomeatcx #womenempowerment #womensupportingwomen #womeninbusiness #womenownedbusiness #girlpower #femaleboss #podcast #womenincxpodcast #womenincxcommunity #claremuscutt
Show Notes
Clare Muscutt – host:
Welcome to the 14th episode of the second series of the Women in CX podcast, a series dedicated to real-talk conversations between women in customer experience. Listen in as we share our career stories, relive the moments that shaped us, and voice our opinions as loudly as we like about all manner of CX subjects.
I’ll be your host, Clare Muscutt, and in today’s episode I’ll be talking to a woman who grew up in the townships of South Africa and is dedicating her life’s work to using her CX skills to heal the social and economic divides created by Apartheid.
Let me introduce you to today’s inspiring guest. She started her career on the frontline of customer experience in call centres before working her way up in management consulting until she broke out as the first entrepreneur to start a fully black-owned CX consultancy business that she aptly named Unlimited Experiences. Her personal story is one of tremendous strength and courage through adversity, so sit back and tune in for some serious inspiration.
Please welcome to the show CX sister, Mandisa Makubalo. Hey, Mandisa!
Mandisa Makubalo:
Hello, Clare.
Clare Muscutt – host:
How are you today?
Mandisa Makubalo:
I’m awesome. I’m amazing. Cape Town is beautiful. How are you?
Clare Muscutt – host:
I’m awesome, too. And yes, you are awesome. We are awesome! And welcome to the Women in CX podcast. And welcome to everybody listening at home, as well.
So, Mandisa, I’m so excited to have this conversation with you today because I know you’re doing some absolutely incredible work in your hometown of South Africa, in Cape Town, in bringing together the communities from the cities and the townships to really effect some social change. I think it’s a really important story that needs to be heard, and it needs to be shared. So, thank you so much for coming to share it with Women in CX.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Thank you. It’s an honour for me to be on the podcast. I’m excited.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, it’s an honour to have you here.
So, let’s begin at the beginning, then. So, we’re going to talk a lot about where you came from. So, your office today, where are you joining us from?
Mandisa Makubalo:
I’m joining you from South Africa. I’m in the city of Cape Town in the Western Cape Province – the country has nine provinces – I’m in the Western Cape Province in the beautiful city of Cape Town that has the notorious Table Mountain. And I’m in the township – I’m born in the township of Gugulethu, which means ‘Our pride’ – but I’m stationed, in terms of our offices, I’m in the township of Philippi, which a township that is… the office park itself is surrounded by tinned housing structures. We’re in a business park that is designed in a way that captures the beauty of our culture and our race in South Africa.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Amazing, amazing. I’ve been to South Africa. I visited Cape Town twice. It’s definitely one of my favourite places…
Mandisa Makubalo:
Really?
Clare Muscutt – host:
… on earth. Yes, yes! I’ve climbed Table Mountain. I’ve climbed the Lion’s Head. I’ve taken the thing from the top.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Oh, no!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, I came as a speaker. I did a solo drive all the way down the western cape up to Knysna…
Mandisa Makubalo:
Oh, nice.
Clare Muscutt – host:
… and I stopped in lots of different places, Stellenbosch. So, I’m a massive fan of the country. It’s a beautiful place.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Oh, nice.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And next time…
Mandisa Makubalo:
I’m happy to hear that.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Next time, I’m definitely going to come and visit you.
So, my first question is going to be about what it was like for you as a young woman growing up in the townships of post-Apartheid South Africa. But I think for the listeners, it’s probably important for us to understand what was Apartheid in the first place? How did the townships become the townships?
Mandisa Makubalo:
So, Apartheid was a system that was created to separate people. It was intended to create a system that separates the blacks from the whites. So, what you had was the whites would stay in one side of the city and the black, African blacks would stay on the townships. So, the system itself was intended to really segregate and separate people and to bring this division across humanity, across humans.
As a result of that, right now, we are still in that system – but we can talk more about that throughout the podcast – but really, Apartheid was a system that was created back then, which was intended to segregate and divide people according to their skin colour.
Clare Muscutt – host:
It’s absolutely disgusting, isn’t it, to think…? It wasn’t that long ago either when…
Mandisa Makubalo:
I know.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Nelson Mandela was freed in, was it the 1990s?
Mandisa Makubalo:
1994.
Clare Muscutt – host:
- Wow. Such a recent time. So, you were telling me about the beauty of the townships – I think you said the township you grew up in, the translation of the word means ‘pride’.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. So, I know you’re very proud of your heritage. So, tell me what it was like as a young woman growing up in the township.
Mandisa Makubalo:
It’s who I am; it’s my identity. It’s the most humbling and the most beautiful – I’m sure you could probably say the same in terms of where you grew up, as well – but for me, you know, we have been brought up in a community of people where there’s a term that’s called, ‘Umntu ngumntu ngabantu,’ which means that ‘I am because you are, and you are because I am.’
Clare Muscutt – host:
I love that.
Mandisa Makubalo:
We were brought up with those principles in our culture, in the black community. So, we lived in houses that were very attached to one another, so there was no detachment. Sometimes, we call it like a ‘train’, so the way in which the train is designed, that’s how the houses are: there’s no separation between the one house and the other house. But what that instilled in us is that unity and that family. So, if you lacked something, you would just stand across the fence and shout, ‘Can I have a spoon of salt?’ ‘Can I have sugar?’ ‘Can I have a slice of bread?’
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah.
Mandisa Makubalo:
So, we have that. And there was nothing shunned upon in terms of asking your neighbour because we were being brought up in a family and this homely set-up. So, for me as a mother today, and as a business owner, I am who I am because of where I grew up. I’m this family-oriented person. I’m a person that loves unity and being amongst people because I grew up like that.
I come from a family of nine. I have seven brothers… and two girls. I’m the second youngest. We grew up in a big house. My dad had a family-owned business, so we had helpers at home all the time. The house was constantly busy. We were the first house in our block to own a television set, so the entrepreneur in me actually kicked in at the time because when the guys came to watch programmes, I would charge them a fee.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I love that! So, entrepreneurial Mandisa started as…
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Love it.
Mandisa Makubalo:
And that’s really how we grew up. On a Sunday, we had this big pot of food that was prepared, and everybody was there. I think the only time the house was ever quiet was when we were sleeping at night, but throughout the day, there was constant traffic. But that’s the culture: there’s this constant traffic and constant movement. There’s never a dull day or a quiet day, and that’s how we grew up, and I loved that.
Even when I grew up and I moved to the city – and we can talk about that later on – but I found that it was so different to how I grew up: the structures, in terms of the way the houses have been built, there’s this separation between the houses, but I grew up in a space where there was attachment, you know, there was the next-door, the neighbour, the neighbour, the neighbour, the neighbour.
So, it was beautiful growing up as a black woman in the township.
Clare Muscutt – host:
It sounds idyllic. I was going to say, actually, that sense of attached-ness rather than separation, actually not many people get that sense of community growing up. So, it sounds like you were definitely on the right side of the…
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes! And you know what? Sorry to cut in! You know what happened? As much as Apartheid was intended to separate and segregate people, it actually worked in our favour because it brought us together.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Strengthened the community.
Mandisa Makubalo:
There was a homeliness, and now you have these mothers that are coming up from that kind of set-up. So, as much as racially we were separated, but for us as a black community, we grew to love one another, and there was this unity that nobody could break even today.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah. What about the expectation for young women in the townships? What was that like? Were women supposed to grow up and be entrepreneurs like you?
Mandisa Makubalo:
I would say yes, but as a black community – and this is something that I’m, this is a stereotype that I’m trying to break as a businesswoman today – there were these so-called ‘black businesses.’ So, if you set up a business as a black person, it’s either you’re doing hair, you’re selling food, or you would – what’s the other one? So, you’re cutting hair, you’re selling food. So, there’s these traditional set-ups that were created as for the black community. So, if you had a business, it was only limited to those things.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Wow.
Mandisa Makubalo:
And that’s how people grew up, you know, it’s either you were selling meat, you were selling food, you prepare food at home, or you were cutting hair, you’re plaiting people’s hair, or you have a barber. That’s all that was done at the time, but there’s been this evolution now, and there’s your consultants today – like a Mandisa Makubalo – which you wouldn’t have found back in the days.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah, amazing. And you created the first black-owned CX consulting practice in South Africa, right?
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes! Yes!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Go, girl!
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yeah!
Clare Muscutt – host:
I’m going to come back and ask you some more questions about that in a second, but just to go back to where we were talking about the townships and the cities. With that kind of model of separation, how is that shaping inequality and social issues today?
Mandisa Makubalo:
It still is. We have a long way to go – I can say that – but there’s been great progress that has been made. I think what it requires is a level of intentionality at an individual level. And we cannot outsource that responsibility of driving equality to a government department; it has to be something that’s owned, and Mandisa has to be intentional about driving equality.
Growing up at a young age, I did not see that because my dad took us to a private school. So, we were not schooled within the township, but we went to a private school, and we had a driver that would pick us up at home in the morning and drop us off at home at afternoon because our dad feared for our lives, but he could afford that.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, wow.
Mandisa Makubalo:
You know, it wasn’t safe for one to travel and use – I think as a parent, he had fears around us using public transportations and whether or not we would be safe. So, he then paid – we had a transport escorting system. The guy would pick us up in the morning and bring us home in the evening, in the late afternoon.
Just going back to your question, so what has happened – which I still see today – as a result of the Apartheid system or the regime, as we call it, what you do find is that… so, let’s say I’m now owning this customer experience consultancy, and as a result of this, I’m able to get myself this beautiful – build myself a beautiful big house. So, the definition of success at the moment – as a consultant – what had happened back then is that for you to be successful, one moves out of the township and into the city.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Right.
Mandisa Makubalo:
So, you get yourself this beautiful job. You study. You have a degree or you have a diploma. And then, you get yourself a beautiful job as an accountant or a financial manager, whatever the profession is. You buy yourself a car, you get yourself a house, and you move out of the township. And that is deemed as success. And what that does for us within the same race, what you find is that a black person that lives in the city and moves out of the township now comes back into the township to visit, and there’s almost this sense that ‘I’m better than them.’
Clare Muscutt – host:
Right.
Mandisa Makubalo:
And it’s what the system has done in a sense. You look at these young kids that listen to what their mums and their dads say at home, and they are schooled in these private schools, and they have a specific accent in terms of how they speak. Now, they come back into the township. And then, there’s a young boy that the parents cannot afford to take them to private school, and they don’t have that accent that the other one has. And you see how they interact with one another. These two are both blacks, but you see how the one looks down on the other. The other one would have an iPad; the other one doesn’t even have exposure to any tech device.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Wow.
Mandisa Makubalo:
And that’s what the system has done, but that responsibility has got to be owned by the parents, has got to be owned by Mandisa. It cannot be outsourced to anybody. So, as a result of what happened back then, you still find that there’s this inequality amongst us within the same race, and it’s quite bad. But I can also… yes?
Clare Muscutt – host:
Sorry! Just to kind of play that back, so what’s been created is a kind of social inequality based on economic status…
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
… that means people have been conditioned to believe, ‘The only way for me to be successful is to get out of here,’ and then of course the people who do succeed leave, and it leaves the social and economic challenge ongoing.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Right.
Mandisa Makubalo:
And at the same time, look, the reasons why people move out of the townships isn’t only because they want to now start separating themselves from everybody, but from a security perspective…
Clare Muscutt – host:
Safer.
Mandisa Makubalo:
… there’s a lot of a crime in the townships. It’s not safe. You find that it’s much safer in the city for understandable reasons because if you look at the population of the cities and the townships, there’s a vast difference between the two. So, people don’t only move out of the townships because they are now saying that ‘I’m successful. I’m moving into the city,’ but they move out of the township for security reasons, and it’s not always the case that ‘Now, I’m all of a sudden better than everybody else.’
Clare Muscutt – host:
I remember when we first talked, you told me about the ‘Black Diamonds.’
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Tell me more about those people. They’re bucking the trend, right?
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes. So, the University of Cape Town, which is one of our very esteemed institutions in South Africa, has done studies – and you can go back and take some time and read up on this – there’s so much more interesting insights about these individuals. But they are between the ages – I think it’s between the ages of 25 to 35; I might be wrong. They are your Mandisas, I would say – although I’m outside of 35 years old – but they are your graduates, and they hold quite senior positions in corporates. They earn a good salary, and they have this massive contribution that they make towards the country’s gross domestic product and the total consumer spending of the country; they have a massive percentage that they make towards that.
But this group of people, some of them choose to stay in the townships; they don’t move out of the townships. Some of them do move out of the townships. But you do find Black Diamonds that are staying right in the heart of the townships and they haven’t opted to move out, which is a fantastic thing. But again, not saying that it’s a bad thing to move out, but let it be for the right reasons, and that when you do come back and visit your family, it’s not a case of you perceiving yourself to be better than everybody else, and now that you have achieved life and you’re better than everybody else. It’s not about that. It’s really about saying that I want better. And if there’s better, then we will choose better, but I’m still true to who I am: I’m an African black woman that recognises that I was brought up in this place, and I’m a product of this place.
Clare Muscutt – host:
It sounds like there’s a real sense of giving back for you, and also some of the people that choose to stay in the townships, I’m sure, to provide excellent role models for the next generations coming up.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
So, I think I’d just really love to understand a bit more about the challenges you faced in kind of breaking through the stereotype and setting up the first black-owned CX consulting practice. What was that journey like for you?
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yeah, it was – it’s the most beautiful journey. I’ve had a lot of challenges, I would say, but what had happened is it started off at a time when I had lost my job. The previous company I had worked for had liquidated, so I lost my – actually, no, I was laid off before the company liquidated. And here I was, a very senior head of department in this consulting firm, and then I lose my job.
At the time, I was staying in the city – and my choice to move to the city was again for security reasons, but not because I’m now trying to deem myself as more successful than anyone else – so, at the time then, when I lost my job, I lost my house; I lost my car; I had to move out of the city and go back to the township.
But when I moved back, I had no place to stay. So, I was staying with friends, and I had to ask people to look after my furniture. That went on for about three years, where I had no place to stay. At that time, what kept me going was my faith. I’m a very strong believer. I have an intimate relationship with God. So, what kept me going was my – I had this peace that still I have today in the midst of whatever happens, I have this peace that just surpasses all understanding. A lot of the time, people would tend to ask, ‘Mandisa, it’s like you’re in your own space.’ But I had this peace inside and this knowing that ‘I’m okay, and I am not my circumstances.’
It was difficult, though, for my daughter and my 75-year-old mum, who had to go and stay with a friend, and my daughter had to go and stay with me with a friend. I remember I used to sleep on a couch in the front of the house, and she shared a bed with my friend. And my mum had no place to sleep; she had to sleep on the floor.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, no.
Mandisa Makubalo:
It was terrible. But at that time, I knew what I had is that ‘Mandisa, you might be going through this season right now, but there’s so much intellectual property that you had in you. How can you then use that to build something for yourself?’
So, I remember hopping around from place to place with my laptop every single day trying to find a Wi-Fi spot. Sometimes, I would go to meetings hoping that they would have food for me to eat, and I’d pack some food for my daughter to take home.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Wow.
Mandisa Makubalo:
But in the midst of that, I was building this business. And my mum kept on saying to me, ‘Mandisa, what are you doing?’ Like, ‘Mum, I’m starting a consulting company.’ ‘But my child, that’s for white people; that’s white people stuff.’ She grew up at the time of the Apartheid system, so I would understand. I took no offence because I knew that there was this big age difference between myself and her and she wouldn’t understand. But I was protecting of my daughter because she didn’t understand what was happening. You know, we had everything. She had everything that she needed and all of sudden, we don’t have anything; we just lost it all.
So, that was a challenge that I had. But at the time, my faith grew stronger and stronger. I prayed like I’ve never prayed before. There was this knowing, Clare, that ‘This is just a test. I’m going to come out of this beautiful and shining.’ I knew that. I knew. I knew. ‘Mandisa, this is a test.’
Clare Muscutt – host:
This is, like, touching my soul right now. It’s so inspiring, and that piece that you’re talking about, I think especially for people who’ve lost so much through the coronavirus pandemic, you know, to hear of your struggle and how you overcame that. To think there was a time when you were worried about being able to eat, you know, and where you’ve come from and where you’ve come to and your multiple successes. Honestly, this is touching my heart right now. I’m so incredibly proud of you.
Mandisa Makubalo:
We found a place to stay, but you know what? As we stayed there, there were days where there was no electricity, and I would go out with my laptop – sometimes I’d even have soap to wash my body. I would wash in cold water. This was two-and-a-half years ago, eh?
Clare Muscutt – host:
Wow!
Mandisa Makubalo:
And I would get home only to find my mum and my daughter sleeping. There’s no power at home. There’s no food at home. But I had the most beautiful support from friends because I’ve always been the person that always led to give, to give, and to give. And I guess I was just sowing the seed at the time not knowing that there was going to come a time where that seed will speak for me. I had people just coming, giving food from all different sides, and people clothed me – they know how I love looking beautiful – and I had just people saying, ‘Go get your hair done,’ or ‘Have your nails done,’ ‘Let’s sort you out. Do you have data? Do you have airtime?’ But in that time, even up until today, we stayed in a one-room home. We actually moved out of that structure, Clare, in December last year, 2020.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, wow! Wow.
Mandisa Makubalo:
I promise you. As I’m doing those sessions with Jonathan and everybody else last year, we are staying in a one-roomed structure, and it’s four people in that space, and I kept on pushing this business in that space. Only in December, on the 22nd of December 2020, we moved into a bigger house that’s fully furnished.
Clare Muscutt – host:
I never would’ve known that that struggle was going on behind the scenes because everything you’ve been doing over the last year, you know, your profile was really raised, you’ve been contributing to all these amazing global conversations, that I think all our listeners will be genuinely surprised to know that you were doing it from that place. I have absolutely nothing but absolute huge respect and admiration. And there is a light that just shines from you, Mandisa. It is incredibly powerful.
So, tell us about how you’re using customer experience to change the social inequalities in South Africa? You’re healing some of these divides between the cities and the townships; how are you doing that?
Mandisa Makubalo:
You know what? I think what I went through is what has ignited this – it has always been there to want to help; I’ve always felt compelled to help. I’ve always been that person that always gives advice and helps other people. I think what I went through during that three-year period actually just ignited that even more. So, what I have been doing – and this I’ve been doing when I had absolutely no money – I ran workshops last year training local businesses at no cost. I needed the money so much, but I felt, ‘Don’t do it for the money.’ And I would use my last money and buy cookies and soft drinks, and I would invite these guys to come in. I would go to different hotels and ask them for marketing material. I would set up the room. And I would train these guys on customer experience because I’m saying to them, ‘Don’t set your eyes on just running a salon on this tin structure; try and think of running a beauty parlour. How does it look like?’ You know, I’m teaching about the principles of different touchpoints they have within this shack that you are running your salon in: ‘Make sure that your mirrors are clean. Clean the combs. Make sure that your floor is clean. When people come in, greet the people.’
So, CX – that’s what CX is about. Those guys would do journey mapping with me. One lady standing of the corner of the street, she’s selling food and she’s selling chicken feet, and I would tell her how CX looks like for her. You know, I’m saying to them, ‘Don’t set your eyes on small things; there’s a world that’s out there. And I’m trying to get a lot of you guys into these bigger supply chains.’ I sit in different forums and conversations where these big companies would say, ‘We are looking for black-owned businesses, but we can’t find them.’ And I’m saying, ‘But they’re there,’ and I realised there’s a disconnect somewhere.
And I had to sometimes say, ‘Mandisa, what do you have that you can give back and empower these guys?’ There’s this bad thinking that branding is about printing of t-shirts and caps, and I’m saying to the guys, ‘Branding is not about printing t-shirts and caps; branding is actually bigger than that. The psychology behind colours…’ and I would teach them all of these things about how you get the feedback. You know, you don’t have the tools to run an expensive service, but you can create a shoebox, and when your customers leave, ask them to leave a note. How do you take those insights and build a product and a solution for them? And that’s what I did. I mean, they will tell you today, they know the difference between CX and customer services.
Clare Muscutt – host:
That’s more than a lot of businesses!
Mandisa Makubalo:
And I set up about 60 entrepreneurs at that time with absolutely nothing – I was getting nothing back. But I just felt led to do that. Every time I had done that, at the end of each of those sessions, I would attract an opportunity.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Yeah.
Mandisa Makubalo:
That’s why I always say, ‘Blessed is the hand that gives, not the one that receives,’ and that’s the principle: give, give, and it will be given unto you. But you don’t give because you want to receive; you give because you have a heart to give.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, Mandisa. Honestly, I’ve got – you know when the hairs on your arms stand up listening to you.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Such an incredible connection between your purpose, your passion, and giving back and making a difference, and it’s so genuine. Honestly, I feel like I’ve got a little tear coming at the back of my eyes. I’m so moved by you and your story. There’s so much for us to learn from the realness of you, your story, and your purpose. Ah, it’s amazing.
So, how are you bringing in the corporates, then? I think there’s – just basically there’s this gap where they’re looking for black-owned businesses, they can’t seem to find them… are you filling that gap by being the connection?
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes. So, what I do once I’ve engaged with them, I will actually help them in terms of – if they don’t have a social media footprint – and I will say to them, ‘Look, nobody knows who you are if you don’t have any visibility online. That’s the reality.’ So, I would offer to help them around creating posts, how to capture images – some guys don’t even have phones – and I would say, ‘Look, I have an iPhone. Thank God!’ And I would give them my phone to use, I’d give them access to Wi-Fi, and I’d showcase their businesses either on my company website or I will showcase them on my socials, as well. I have also offered, when I have free capacity, I would sit with them and teach them how to write, to do blogging, how to create articles, how to actually just market themselves through content. They have found it helpful. I might not ever meet them again. Some of them I have met, but I know that I’ve made a difference in the lives of those businesses because I’m saying to them that, ‘Who said you have to be stuck in the township, in that small, tinned structure, for your business? You can actually own an office space.’
I started off at home, and I used to put my laptop on my lap and type. Sometimes, there was no power. I would walk around the house trying to find a stronger connection. But now today, I’m sitting in an office structure, and I’m not paying anything for this office structure. I believe that if I had not given back and been that intentional about giving back, I wouldn’t have attracted all the favour that I have been given. It’s absolute favour that I’ve been getting.
Clare Muscutt – host:
It’s so, so true, isn’t it? When you focus on the outside world and getting things for yourself, or like material gains, the world always acts against you. When you get to a place of being and giving and sharing, the opportunities find you. So, the things you may want, you don’t focus on them; you focus on being the kind of person you want to be and being in service of others. I totally agree with you.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
There’s so much power in attracting the good stuff when you’re doing the good stuff yourself.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Exactly.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Love it. So, my final question, really, is about how do you think you can support more women in historically disadvantaged communities to achieve social and economic mobility? You’ve talked a lot about creating workshops and free training – is there anything else that you’d add about supporting women to rise up?
Mandisa Makubalo:
I think – you know what happens? And something I share with my – you know, I get quite emotional, I think because there was a reason why God allowed me to walk through that season because if I had not gone through that season, I probably wouldn’t have this heart that I have; it’s been there, but now it’s at a different level. I’ll be quite honest. And it’s as a result of what I went through. And as a result of that, I would say to other women that have been through the corporate space that you don’t always have to give people money; just give them yourself. I know that my daughter has the luxury of having me to hold her hand; some young people don’t have that.
Last year, Clare – not last year – in 2018, I got to train a group of 16 to 18-year-olds. I realised, then, that what these guys, what we see is manifestation of a deeper problem. I’ll give you an example. I had a young boy in that group – I remember giving them an exercise to do – and I said to them, ‘These are strength cards, so pick up a card with the name that picks your strengths and your areas of development.’ And these guys were struggling to find their strengths, and I observed them. These guys would walk from home to come to this programme. They had no means to get here. And this one boy says, as he’s standing in the front, that he doesn’t believe in forgiveness, and everybody else started judging him. And I said – I knew there was something deeper. I asked him, ‘Talk to me. Why is that?’ This young boy says he lost his mum at the age of five. After his mum died, his dad passed away at the age of six. And after his dad passed away, his aunts and uncles took him in, but they abused him, and he had to leave this place and go live in the streets, and that’s why he struggles with forgiveness. But if I had not taken the time to really unpack and understand, I would have judged that poor boy…
Clare Muscutt – host:
Written him off.
Mandisa Makubalo:
After that programme, he came to me and he said to me, ‘Thank you,’ because he had given up hope that there are people that still believed in him, but his unforgiveness was framed by a lot of things that he did not ask for, nor did he deserve.
So, I always say to women that are in my position, ‘You don’t have to give money back to people; there is so much of you that you could give back, but we have to hold these kids by hand and walk with them.’ I do this all the time. My daughter gets tired of me sometimes because I’m always giving pep talks to her friends, but I’m also invited to different graduation ceremonies and different institutions here, where I go and speak to the youth. I share my story with them, and I think I’ve seen that it hits home and carries much more weight because I come from the township. I grew up here and I’m occupying international spaces. They see that it can be done. The fact that I did this at a time where I had absolutely nothing to my name besides Mandisa. I say to them, ‘You are not where you grew up. I did it.’ There were times at home where it would be pouring, and the rain would come in, and I would have to pick out water from the house, but I will get dressed, get up, and walk out of that house, and go fight for what I want.
So, that message really resonates with all of them in such a way that these institutions keep on saying, ‘They just want you; they don’t want anyone else.’ And I guess that’s why God had allowed me to go through that so that I can be that healing oil to all these young people. That’s why I’m so passionate about the township set-up. I believe that I can only give back here and nowhere else. So, that’s Mandisa, yes.
Clare Muscutt – host:
Oh, wow. Mandisa, honestly, this has been the most moving episode I’ve ever recorded. Just reflecting back on all of your story, your personal story, for anybody listening, it really seriously puts into perspective our struggles. You wore yours like warrior, with the absolute faith that something was going to come from it. You’re living proof that continuing to follow the path, the right path, the path of giving back, is having such a huge impact on the world. I don’t think many people can stand back and look and say that they have achieved as much as you.
So, I am absolutely so thankful that you came, and you shared this with me today and you shared it with our listeners. You’ve also really got me thinking… I’d love to have you onboard as a consultant for the Women in CX Community to think about how we can make sure that what we’re creating is accessible to women who perhaps don’t have the access to pay for a membership. How can we make sure this is available to people who really need it? So, we can have a conversation about this afterwards.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Oh, yes!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Honestly, I feel this light that you’ve shared has filled my heart, as well. So, all the way over there in South Africa, that Mandisa power is here with me right now. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on the show.
Mandisa Makubalo:
Thank you, Clare.
Clare Muscutt – host:
And thank you for everybody listening and watching along, as well, too. We’ll see you all next week! Thank you, Mandisa. Bye bye!
Mandisa Makubalo:
Thank you, Clare. Bye!
Clare Muscutt – host:
Thanks for listening to the Women in CX podcast with me, Clare Muscutt. If you enjoyed the show, please drop us a like, subscribe, and leave a review on whichever platform you’re listening or watching on. And if you want to know more, please join us at womenincx.community, and follow the Women in CX page on LinkedIn.
Join us again next week, where I’ll be talking to a woman in CX about investing in yourself, CX in FM and IoT, and her journey to becoming a Chief Experience Officer. See you all next week!
Talking about talking about CX in tech, the importance of communities for women, and the power of women supporting one another to succeed.
'When women support each other, incredible things happen.'
While both men and women benefit from having a network of well-connected peers, women who also have an inner circle of close female contacts are more likely to land executive positions with greater authority and higher pay.
Why? Women trying to rise up into leadership face cultural and systemic hurdles that make it harder for them to advance.
We overcome the hurdles by forming close connections with others, and learn from the shared experiences of women who have ‘been there and done that’.
Communities for women are special places that make it easier to meet others, share our challenges and find the support we need to make headway.
That’s why I was thrilled to have Anita Siassios on the show to talk about her experience of building communities for women in Cyber security in Australia and how she is working to include indigenous women too.
Tune in to hear us talk about:
🤖 How Anita got into CX
🤖 The growing B2C cybersecurity risks
🤖 Creating communities for women
🤖 Supporting indigenous women in Australia
🤖 Acknowledging white privilege exists
🤖 The future skills needed by WICX
🤖 Building your CX peripheral vision
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womenincx #femaleentrepreneurs #inspiringwomen #womeninbusiness #womenentrepreneurs #girlboss #howtobeawesomeatcx #womenempowerment #womensupportingwomen #womeninbusiness #womenownedbusiness #girlpower #femaleboss #podcast #womenincxpodcast #womenincxcommunity #claremuscutt
Talking about joining the circus and how creating magical employee experiences and engagement drove guest experience at Cirque du Soleil.
“Roll up roll up, ladies and gentlemen the show is about to begin!”🎪
Do you remember the thrill of hearing those words?
Live entertainment was undoubtedly one of the hardest hit over the last 12 months, but with a vaccine in sight, I for one can’t wait to be entertained and experience the wonderment of big iconic events again.
I was thrilled to be joined Carolene Meli as my guest on the Women in CX podcast this week as she spent 10 years living and working on the road, leading teams of employees in cities all around the world to deliver the unforgettable guest experience that is Cirque du Soleil!
Tune in to hear us talk about:
🎪 Why Carolene left home & joined the circus
🎪 What it’s like to live and work on the circus road
🎪 The challenges of delivering temporary live experiences
🎪Overcoming cultural and language barriers
🎪 How to manage employee engagement with temporary staff
🎪 Recruitment, onboarding, training, reward and recognition strategies
🎪 Creating magical guest experiences
🎪 Connecting employees with purpose
🎪 Experiencing your own CX
🎪 Carolene’s top tips
🎪 Where she is up to now and heading next
We hope you enjoy the show!
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Will the obsession with customer experience metrics be our downfall? 🤔
When you’re part of a discipline which is less than 30 years old in terms of practice and thinking, especially one suffering seismic shifts due to data, technology & digital, it is reasonable to assume nobody truly has all the answers.
Perhaps this is why most customer experience initiatives hinge upon programmes of measures & insights?
CX not being well understood in business means having something tangible to evidence what we do in numerals & characters we can communicate easily to executives, is of high value to us.
But without resources predominantly allocated to using data to take action- to improve, change, innovate and show the commercial impact of action taken, is CX really of value to the organisation?
That’s why I was excited to have an expert like Chloe Woolger from Kantar on the show to have the debate & get her perspective on how to use insights and metrics to drive action.
Tune in to hear us talk about:
⚡️ Her career journey
⚡️ What it’s like working agency side
⚡️ The importance of networking for women
⚡️ Which CX metrics are most useful
⚡️ The NPS debate
⚡️ How to drive action using insights
⚡️ How to prove CX ROI
What are your thoughts?
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Amanda Riches talking about CX tech and life lessons, including being a young gay woman in the 90's, succeeding in male dominated industries, and surviving cancer to become the UK’s #1 CX Professional.
‘Life is short and time is precious’
With the CRUK statistics that 1 in 2 people will receive a cancer diagnosis at some point in their lives, almost everybody's life will be or have been touched by it in some way.
My guest this week, Amanda Riches shared her personal story of surviving cancer 3.5 times and that amazingly, she is able to reflect on the positives of such a harrowing experience.
Her appreciation of just how precious our time on earth is, was so inspirational.
Especially how it has become the driving force behind her desire to make people’s lives better through her work in Customer Experience.
Tune in to hear more of Amanda’s story, including:
- The challenges she faced in the 90’s
- Coming out as a young gay woman working in a male dominated industry
- Her thoughts on the future of CX and tech
- Her insight into what lessons she learned along the way
- Her advice for women in CX
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‘There are no ‘women of colour’ in Africa’
This week’s Women in CX Podcast guest, The CX Queen of Nigeria, Debbie Akwara came on the show to share her career story and share the moments that shaped her into the formidable woman she is becoming.
Including her shocking recent and first ever experience of being referred to as a ‘woman of colour’ when she dared to challenge the status quo of how the CX community functions in the West.
Whilst being well known across her home continent for years, in the last 12 months she broke through to become globally recognised as a thought leader. And earned her place at the table.
Yet as a woman from Africa, she was made to feel her voice was deemed as less valuable.
More women all over the world are rising up to take their rightful place on global stages, being better enabled by the digital communications and collaboration revolution.
I’m proud the women in CX community is here to amplify the voices of women who are ready to be heard. And those who aren’t ready for us, best get set. As women like Debbie, will not be ignored.
Tune into the podcast to hear:
- More of Debbie's fascinating backstory
-The African CX perspective
-Technology and CX growing pains
-The similarities with Western CX challenges
-How she started her first CX projects
-The importance of business focus in CX
-Finding the right business metrics to aim for
-The lessons she learned from her mentors
-Finding your confidence -Owning your success
-Dealing with racism as she broke through in the West
-The secret to her unstoppable girl power!
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Trigger WARNING- This episode includes describing experiences of domestic violence and abuse.
This week I had the pleasure to talk to Russian born, Georgian resident Olga Potaptseva who delivers Agile CX programmes for clients globally. Discussing growing up in a Communist state and surviving domestic violence to start one of the first fully virtual global CX consulting agencies delivering Agile CX.e and surviving domestic violence to start one of the first fully virtual global CX consulting agencies delivering Agile CX. Our conversation included:
-What life was like growing up in a Communist state. -How her father’s Rocket Scientist career shaped her aspirations. -How Olga found her way into CX. -The journey to setting up one of the first fully virtual CX consultancies. -The principles of Agile CX. -The main challenges and opportunities for WICX in Eastern Europe. -The global issue of Domestic Violence, our experiences and how we escaped it. -Our advice for women facing a similar situation.
This episode was a very special one for both of us as Olga and I are two women who silently experienced years of domestic violence, but never spoke about it publicly until now.
‘Your silence is an abusers greatest weapon’
As this week marked the start of ‘16 Days of Action’ on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against women, we decided it was time to talk about it.
Domestic Violence against women and girls (VAWG) is one of the most widespread, persistent and devastating human rights violations in our world today remains largely unreported due to the impunity, silence, stigma and shame surrounding it.
In general terms, it manifests in physical, sexual and psychological forms and according to statistics, 1 in 3 women will experience violence at the hands of a man during their lifetime.
And, during lockdown, made up 1 in 5 crimes reported to police. This conversation was hard for both of us, but comes with a clear message that the only way to stop it, starts with telling somebody.
Thank you, Olga for being brave enough to share your story, and helping me share mine too.
For more information on ending violence against women visit: https://www.un.org/en/observances/ending-violence-against-women-day Read more and subscribe to our channels:
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How Jeannie made her way into the world of CX
How she first discovered her ability to adapt to new situations.
Discussing the current climate and changes in the world of CX and business more broadly.
The growth of brand integrity and required congruence with customer experience.
How to adapt your life and business to meet challenges and change.
The pivot consultants are making into content creation and providing thought leadership outside of conferences and events.
The importance of inclusive design and representation in decision making groups.
Jeannie's advice for WICX to help us develop resilience and adaptability.
We had the pleasure of having Founder and Chief Experience Officer of Experience Investigators, Diane Magers on the show to share her incredible years of wisdom with us.
I really enjoyed our conversation which included Diane revealing something few people know about her past that had a huge impact on her approach to life.
We covered so many topics, including:
- Her journey from clinical psychology into Marketing and CX and what she learned along the way.
-What it was like to be part of the early CX revolution alongside the Great Matriarchs of WICX.
-Diane's theory on ‘The swimming pool moments’ of life. Hers and how it effected her.
- The importance of keep giving back to the CX community.
-Diane's views on how CX evolved and where we are heading as a discipline.
-What it was like being the CEO of the CXPA.
-Her top pieces of advice for budding CX professionals to build their skills.
One of the most poignant moments was when Diane talked about the time she spent as a Clinical Psychologist taking care of people's mental heath at the end of their lives.
She got to talk to hundreds of people at this stage and listened to them talk about what they 'wished' they had done differently.
"Nobody ever wished they had spent more time at work" She said. Which serves as a reminder for all of us to get busy with the 'Business of living'
We hope you enjoy the show!
See ya'll next time!
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🧁"You are the cupcake, everyone else is just the sprinkles"🧁
Launching today’s podcast with a backdrop of uncertainty about the US election, Corona deaths rising again, whole countries returning to lockdown and facing heightened terror threats, I wanted to focus on something lighter.
I met the CX pocket rocket, Head of CX and Employee Engagement and Schindler, Founder of DoingCXRight and all round rising CX star, Stacy Sherman, earlier this year and when she told me this piece of advice passed down from her stock trader mom, it was not only delightful, but it really stuck with me.
As women we are so often guilty of prioritising others, building our lives around partners and careers that we sometimes lose sight of the fact that WE are the cupcake.
Wherever you are today, whatever is going on around you, put yourself first and ensure you only invite people, jobs, relationships, friends and co-workers into your life who add value to your experience.
We can learn a lot from the ‘Stacy’s Moms’ of the world who struck out in pursuit of the lives they wanted to lead. Tune in to hear us talk about more of the lessons we learned from our mothers, Stacy’s metric rise to CX fame and her advice on female leadership now.
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Globally, the average workforce participation of women is 50% compared to 75% of men. With such clear evidence of inequality and lack of parity, we need to be asking, why?
The simple fact is women bear the majority of unpaid responsibilites for childcare, get paid less than men for the same work and in some cultures, despite high levels of education, are not afforded the freedom to work due to gender stereotypes.
According to McKinsey, disparity is particularly apparent in the Middle East, where women are the lowest work force participants in the world at just 24.6%.
I was fascinated to hear from this week’s podcast guest, Gulf CX Professional of the Year, Maya Kalifah, about her views on how female empowerment is the key to shifting male attitudes, and how changes being made by GCC leaders will facilitate a brighter future for women to rise up and take their part in the fourth industrial revolution.
Maya is one inspiring woman in CX, so tune in to hear her story of growing up in war-torn Lebanon, witness her incredibly powerful feminism and see how she is using her voice to leverage opportunities for other women, as CX grows at pace in the Gulf Region.
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Discrimination against women in the workplace is a very real problem in the UK, & according to the most recent statistics, it’s getting worse!
🤰 54,000 pregnant women have been made redundant, a figure doubled since 2005
👶🏾 The gender pay gap is widening for women returning to work after children at 33% less than men in the 12 years following birth
Whilst there are laws protecting women’s employment rights, The Women and Equalities Commitee says “Urgent action” is needed to give pregnant women and new mothers more protection!
In this snippet of my interview with Jo van Riemsdijk she shared her experience of experiencing stigma from recruiters about being of ‘child bearing age’, becoming pregnant one week into a new job and going into labour whilst at work!
This isn’t the first woman I’ve heard share such a story, or felt the pressure to go back to work immediately or before she is ready, so as not to miss the opportunities of her peers.
Jo and I talked about her experience of becoming a working mother, how she started her own recruitment business CX Talent Ltd with her BFF & her top tips for getting hired during these crazy Covid times.
Feel free to share your thoughts!
(Links in comments below 👇)
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According to Huffington Post, it’s a sad reality that women have been harder hit by the coronavirus pandemic, whether that’s dealing with higher unemployment and job insecurity as a result or bearing the majority of the burden for childcare, homeschooling and other unpaid care work at home.
However, female entrepreneurs and women determined to be their own bosses and change the world around them with their businesses are a silver lining to emerge from the clouds of Covid-19.
That’s one of the reasons I was thrilled to have serial entrepreneur Lara Felix-Omonubi on the show, inspiring us with her latest new venture, starting a new product-led business during a pandemic.
I just loved the way she describes the side hustle… as a way for us to explore creative passions we might not otherwise had chance to, had we not experienced COVID-19.
Tune in to hear more about Lara’s story of becoming an independent black woman, side hustling, patriarchy and the resilience handed down through generations of Nigerian women and find out more about Women in CX by following the links below.
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‘Just because you have 50k followers, it doesn’t make you right about everything’
With influence comes responsibility, so why do some people choose to abuse it?
In the age of social media, ‘influencers’ seemingly have the power to dictate what is right and wrong in their sphere of influence and sometimes even ‘cancel’ people who disagree with their point of view.
Debate, intellectual challenge and solid argument are the cornerstones of freedom of expression and without it, we can’t make progress, especially in fields like Customer Experience.
The game-changers are those whose original thinking goes against the grain of established concepts to yield a fresh perspective and disrupt the status quo with positive effect. This is where true potential lies.
That’s why I was excited to haveI Claire Durrant on the show to talk about her unconventional career journey and lifestyle as a freelance digital nomad, including her story of being cancelled by one such influencer after she was bold enough to call out the misuse of personas in experience design.
Tune into this week’s episode of the Women in CX Podcast to listen-in to Claire’s story, hear about her experience of going freelance, her world travels, our thoughts on the relationship between CX, UX and Service Design and importantly, how she learned to stand up for herself.
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Who you work for makes all the difference.
Strike it lucky with a true leader who endorses, champions and supports you gives you all the confidence in the world to go out there and reach for new heights.
But if you have the misfortune to work for someone who micromanages you to the point of distraction, it can leave you doubting your own abilities and if anything, curb your ambition.
For every tale of awesome female leadership, we all have one story of a fellow female who made our lives HELL and in some cases, even bullied.
Thankfully these examples are few and far between. But bouncing back after such an experience isn’t necessarily easy once the damage to our self-confidence is done.
What we need is a community of women who network, support and inspire each other to succeed and as my guest on the show today, Cultivate CX founder Katie Stabler demonstrates, support one another to rise up.
I was thrilled to have Katie on the show to hear her career story, find out how she introduced CX to some very unexpected places in a highly male dominated environment and share our experiences of women supporting women.
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Society demands women to be perfect.
Our bodies, our careers, our relationships, our homes and even our mothering skills are all scrutinised and held to impossible standards.
The more we take on, the more the more pressure we feel to be perfect at everything. Which ultimately means we feel we are failing at some (or all) of what is expected of us.
The reality is we are all human and therefore flawed and fallible. And that’s ok!
I was delighted to have founder of Yak CX, Hannah Foley on the show for some real talk about the pressure we feel as women in business to ‘have it all’ and the reality that we probably can’t. (Unless we get Kardashian-rich and outsource all the hard stuff).
Tune in to hear Hannah’s story of building her career in the notoriously male dominated industry that is construction, her adventures in Nepal that led to the birth of her company, Yak CX, and her very honest perspective on the juggling act of motherhood with solopreneurship during lockdown.
She is one inspiring Woman in CX!
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“There’s a point when you finally decide it’s great to love other people but sometimes you have to love yourself just a little bit more and you have to choose yourself”
Some people may say putting yourself first is selfish. But when it comes to living a happy fulfilled life and career, it is essential.
We have probably all been in this position at some time or another, where we have had to choose between ourselves and a relationship that whilst being important to us, is no longer serving our happiness and prosperity.
It could be a romantic, a friend, business partner or even a boss. But staying stuck somewhere we don’t want to be for the sake of another never works out for anyone in the end.
Choosing to leave is often the most difficult decision we ever have to make, so how can we find the strength and courage to do so?
It was an absolute pleasure to have UX Matriarch Gavin James on the show to share her wisdom about how she has developed her values and intuition to support her in making better, more courageous decisions. Whether it be in her personal life, business or customer experience, developing a true north enabled Gavin to achieve remarkable things on her journey so far.
Tune in to find out more about Gavin’s story, growing up as a woman alongside the tech that shaped the world as we know it, her mantra, her views on what makes great CX and the challenges of living in Trump’s America, today.
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What if the bottom line in Customer Experience isn’t the customer... it’s still the bottom line?
It may seem counterintuitive, but what if the best way to get a business on board with focussing on customers, isn’t by focussing on them at all?
In the penultimate episode of the series I got to talk to a CX commercial queen Jo Boswell about her approach to getting investment in CX that had CFO’s raving about her— And she didn’t start with talking about fixing customer pain points.
Listen-in to her British Airways career stories from riding Concorde on the ‘Bob Job’ serving as a graduate assistant to legend Bob Ayling, to reclaiming an unintentionally sexist slight in the 90’s and being known as one of the four horsewomen of the apocalypse to her eventual senior roles leading the way to better customer value management through data, insight and technology.
You are in for a treat, my CX friends!
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Women rise by lifting others up. But do you always receive the helping hand you need?
As a woman working to create a safe space for women to network, inspire, and support each other, I’m a firm believer in the power of sisterhood. But when it comes to female leadership, not everyone is on board with that philosophy.
For those of us with the privilege of success, we can do so much good if we ‘send the lift back down’ and help others to achieve greatness. Yet for every tale of sisterhood, we all have at least one story of a fellow female-- being at best unsupportive, or at worst doing all she could to tear us down.
As you will be able to tell when you listen to this episode, I was so excited to have Ingrid Lindberg on the show, as she is the embodiment of what the podcast is all about. Strong, confident, authentic, unapologetic women who aren’t afraid to take up space and support / inspire others to do the same. A brilliant role model of a female CX leader!
Tune in to hear Ingrid’s story, from the moments that shaped her in childhood, to her experiences of being the only woman at the table, her methods of overcoming fraternity culture and the amazing work she is doing to aggregate supportive female executives at board level through her passion project ‘Tatas at the Table’
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Contrary to popular belief, Customer Experience is not the answer to everything.
Most people in business have worked it out already, but some CX professionals seem blind to the truth.
Is it because many of the traditional frameworks ‘taught’ are out of date and serve to perpetuate the myth? Or, that CX dogma coupled with lack of challenge is leading our profession in ever-decreasing circles of inaction?
Either way, the outcome of failing to treat the right problem can only be more failed projects, frustrated practitioners, and disappointed executives who risk losing faith in CX efficacy, full-stop.
Undoubtedly we have to be far more focussed on the problem space in order to engineer value for customers, employees, and the business. But to date, true CX Design is the least understood and practiced CX competency.
I was interested to talk to fellow ‘Design Thinking Evangelist’ Michelle Badenhorst because of our shared view on postmodern CX thinking but also because she unusually came from a business analysis background and transitioned into CX. I was curious to understand the level of pragmatism she brought with her from her career in the no-nonsense world of IT.
Listen in to this week’s episode to hear more about Michelle’s career journey through troubled times in South Africa and her thoughts on blending the CX and BA approach to drive action and results.
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“And the feedback that I got was that I was a bully”
Despite our intentions, the way we communicate has a profound effect on others and their perception of our character.
Depending upon our level of self- awareness, negative feedback can come as a shock. It can rock us to the core. But how we react and bounce back from it is a far more powerful statement about who we are.
In this week's episode, Janelle Mansfield shares her experience of being an ‘Alpha Female’ and how this has served her during her career. From her directness being an asset in male-dominated environments to having to re-learn how to work with women, Janelle’s is a story of courage, truth, and authenticity.
You’ll also hear about making her way up the ladder from humble beginnings at Burger King, how this experience fuelled her passion for a future career in CX, how you can harness commercial acumen to transform your CX influence and how she is using digital tools to make remote CX workshops transcend the current barriers we are experiencing with face to face ways of working.
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We are told the ‘think before we speak’, ‘look before we leap’ and not act before considering the consequences. But when emotions rise up and overpower our better judgment, what emerges can be an unwanted reaction.
Emotional control is an admirable quality, usually possessed by happy successful people. But to what extent is it nature or nurture?
I was fascinated to talk to the UK’s only certified Emotional Intelligence coach, Sandra Thompson, to understand more about this field: its application in personal development and its many connections to customer experience.
In this episode, Sandra shares her own experience of learning to control her emotions, her insights into behavioral psychology, the future opportunities for AI and EQ, and the inspirational work she is now doing to educate others in applied emotional intelligence and customer experience.
I learned EQ is in fact a skill that begins with self-awareness. But mastery means we have the power to redefine all our human relationships. Importantly including employees and customers. But most importantly, with ourselves.
Tune in to the podcast to find out more!
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It is a fact that the privilege we were born with affects our chances of success. Not just our socio-economic status, but the colour of our skin, our sexual orientation, and gender all have the potential to be benefitting or limiting factors, due to the oppressive systems that govern the world at large.
It’s interesting how some people manage to succeed no matter where they start in life, or what knocks them for six on their journey. Whilst others are beaten by the odds. But what is it about the individual that tips the scales?
Through my conversation with today’s inspiring Woman in CX, I was able to see clearly that one of the determining factors is the drive of the person, and their ability to use any limiting opinions from others as fuel to propel themselves and others towards betterment.
Listen in to the incredible Shameem Smillie and I discussing the feminist intersection between race and gender as she shares her journey to becoming her authentic self.
From a tough childhood being raised with an absent father and being one of the only mixed race-kids at her town, to dropping out of school at 15 in order to earn money Shameem didn’t let anyone or anything hold her back from building the life she wanted and a successful career as a woman in tech. Get ready to be inspired!
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What does it take to have the edge when it comes to customer experience leadership?
This is a question we continually ask in CX but seldom receive a straight answer. One usually hears the same old CX dogma of ‘needing the CEO on board’, ‘customer-centric culture’, or some kind of organisational design that puts CX itself in a position of power and authority. But few of us have ever sat close enough to the top table to really know for sure what it takes to influence at that level..
That’s why I jumped at the chance to talk with a woman who’s career led her to become a Chief Customer Officer, who ‘earned her stripes’ and who’s inspiring story has much to teach us when it comes to not only learning the secrets to being a true CX leader but also what it takes to become one.
Kate Thornton is an incredible role model, who’s clarity and realisation of her own agency meant she started asking for what she wanted as she climbed the ladder to success. But the most inspiring thing is her perspective forged by her experiences of working in Scandinavia, that real success doesn’t come at the expense of others. In fact, the key to winning can be found by individuals and organisations who have higher goals to operate from a place of community, where success is shared.
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One of the existential challenges of the human condition is our preoccupation with the future.
We have the unusual capacity to envisage entire narratives. They mostly stay within the confines of our minds as dreams and goals until one day we find ourselves standing in the very moment that always seemed so far away. But the experience is seldom what we imagined it would be.
For women, our dreams often come at a price. We have to make choices and trade-offs between our careers and if we choose to have families, our freedom when it comes to having children. But these decisions are also timebound by our fertility. An inescapable truth that the decision can’t be put off forever.
In Episode #003 of the Inspiring Women in CX Podcast, guest Ines Martinez shares how she imagined her future career, how it turned out differently than she imagined, and how now childfree at 35, her thoughts on what happens next.
In our conversation, we talked about Ines' journey from psychology and academic research, through corporate life in UX and into co-founding a tech company where she often finds herself to be the only woman at the table. And, as a self-confessed girl geek, her insight into the once sci-fi world of robots, droids, and machine learning, with her insight into how human-centered design has the power to create a better future.
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There comes a time in life where we all evaluate where we are with our life choices and careers, and sometimes, have to decide if we want to stick, or twist.
When you are young, free and single, this can be an exciting adventure. But if you have a husband and children in tow, that decision is invariably a difficult one to make as the upheaval involved in changing the status quo affects more than just yourself.
In Episode 002 of the Women in CX podcast, guest Claire Boscq-Scott shares this moment in her life and more importantly how she used it as a catalyst to build the life she wanted to lead.
In this conversation we talked about Claire’s early days in Disney Land, how she created her first business in mystery shopping, her philosophies on CX and her passion for bringing a more holistic approach to business. And then having to let it all go and start over again, in a new digital world, facing a pandemic.
Claire’s passion, resilience and ability to pivot is truly inspirational, and will no doubt inspire other women in CX to not settle for less than what they really want, in order to succeed on their own terms.
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Host Clare Muscutt and Guest Rebecca Brown discussing what it means to create a happiness centered career. Covering topics including personal values, beating imposter syndrome, the perils of the gender pay gap, the desire for motherhood, living life on your own terms, the challenges of being a visible woman on social media, and the power of sisterhood.
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