Five Star Counsel Podcast: Recent Episodes
John Strohmeyer
What would a law firm built by the founders of Disney, Four Seasons, Amazon, and Zappos look like? Lawyers (and other professionals) aren't in the same "service" industry as those companies, but that doesn't mean we can't benefit from employing their rigorous service mindsets. We give you inspiration and tactics to smooth out your processes, bolster your reputation, and increase your revenue - every episode of Five Star Counsel has actionable tips for you to build the firm that clients rave about!
The Five Star Counsel podcast is prepping for a little break while we wrap up season two and prepare for season three, which will focus on the practical implementation of building a modern, high-level legal firm.
As we dive into the day-to-day nuts and bolts, we'll share a range of tools and methods, from budget-friendly to more costly options. We recognize that every firm is different, so we'll provide non-prescriptive guidance and explore various approaches that can be adapted to your practice.
Stay tuned for the upcoming season, and let us know your specific concerns and interests by using the Typeform link below. See you in May!
https://strohmeyerlaw.typeform.com/to/yNnu98Qg#episode=xxxxx
Our show has tackled client service by framing it around one big question: "What would a firm created by the founders of Disney, Amazon, and Four Seasons look like?"
Today we try to summarize our Five Star Bootcamp by answering that question. Building a law firm requires starting with the business foundations of mission, vision, and values. The mission should be clear and consistent for both employees and clients. The values should guide the behavior of employees and drive the business forward.
We need to provide results as a lawyer, but also humanize those results with great service so that your firm can quickly recover from mistakes and build a strong brand.
Five star service isn't easy, but it will reward you, your employees, your clients, and ultimately, your firm's bottom line.
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How do you handle client-facing mistakes? As much as we try to avoid them, mistakes are inevitable, even for us perfectionist attorneys.
And because they are inevitable, attorneys need to have a plan for how to respond when they happen. My experience working at the Four Seasons provided a great framework for how to deal with mistakes, using "glitch reports" to document errors and review them with our staff at regular meetings.
There are three steps that attorneys should take when mistakes happen: apologize and take ownership of the mistake, empathize with the client by acknowledging how the mistake has affected them, and show how you will make it right.
It's important to not apologize, but also give clients a concrete plan for how you will correct the mistake and meet their needs.
I conclude the episode by repeating the magic phrase I learned at the hotel: "I'm sorry this happened, but there's nothing I can say right now that will undo what has happened. What can we do to make this better?"
By following these steps and showing genuine concern for their clients, attorneys can recover from mistakes and continue to provide excellent service.
Closing Exercise: Consider the last client-facing mistake you dealt with.
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Magic Words: "There's nothing I can say that will undo what happened. What can I do now?
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What options are there to fix things for your clients? What's in your toolkit? Should you reconsider your processes?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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There's a common misconception and fear we see in attorneys. Attorneys can fall prey to thinking that becasue they're well-paid and well-respected, they don't need to think about making their service better. Many risk-averse, pessimist, perfectionist attorneys simply fear the potential failure that comes with change and growth. Neither of these is a good reason to avoid thinking about improvement. This episode, we discuss the ways you can approach gradual improvement, how to identify what needs to be improved, and how to get yourself started. We'll even tell you how you can save a bundle in consulting fees! Closing Exercise: Ask yourself, "What can we do better?" 1. What do you see out in the world that you've enjoyed? How can you implement or translate that to your own service? 2. When do you ask employees for improvement suggestions? 3. When do you ask clients for improvement suggestions?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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Now that you have addressed your standards, and you've implemented processes that should lead to those standards being met, how do you make sure your firm is hitting your standards on an ongoing basis? Standards won't do much for you if they're never being met. I'll walk through the ways you can think about consistency in your service, ways to measure and track consistent service, and even what do when someone is regularly missing the mark or if your standard is just too lofty to begin with. You'll constantly be testing, measuring, and tweaking your service, with an aim to be as consistent as possible, and to deliver the same high standards, day in and day out. Closing Exercise: How do you test yourself? We're setting up the secret shopper program. 1. What could be tested? 2. How often will you be testing? 3. What will you do to be sure that people know and execute? 4. Determine training and scoring methods.
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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Now that we've discussed the components of our firm's service, it's time to think about how we measure successful service. Setting these standards not only helps you track that everything is happening correctly, but helps your employees know if they're doing a good job. Most importantly, it helps ensure a consistent and high-quality experience for your clients.
We'll discuss touchpoints - the places where you and your client actually interact - and how to start measuring there. We'll talk about what to do if you're not hitting your standards, and how to consider adjusting your standards as your business changes.
I'll get into some concrete examples that I use in my firm, but you'll really want to come up with your own standards that work for and support your firm's values, vision, and mission (see how it all comes back to those?).
Closing Exercise: What adjectives do you use to describe the delivery of your physical and technical components? Delivery is the adjectives and adverbs used to describe delivery. Let's think of three (I use "Clean, Fast, and Easy," but make these your own).
Now, how can we quantify the delivery so we can measure how it happens? Some examples:
- How long does it take to respond to an email?
- How long to get from initial meeting to draft documents?
- How long to return a phone call?
- How long to get an engagement letter out?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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We've built the pieces of the machine for great service, but now it's time to focus on the fuel - your employees. People are the most important thing in your business, and we can't skimp on it.
I break this episode down into two main parts: how to hire and how to train and manage.
The most crucial single point is in your hiring process - most law firms hire based on skillset, which, of course, is important, but technically skilled lawyers aren't that tough to find. You want someone who understands, shares, and demonstrates your firm's values right from the get-go. At the least, someone who can get there quickly and naturally. You don't just want someone who you'd like to have a beer with - that's not a culture fit, that's just a person you like. I'll get into the kind of questions, both technical and personal, that will determine a quality hire. Once you've got the right people, it's like a fleet of Rolls Royces. That's great, but even Rolls Royces need maintenance and tune-ups. This is where your training and management come in. How are they continuing to meet the firm's values and work toward the firm's mission? How you are managing them in a way that upholds the firm's values, works towards your vision, and keeps your employees - your firm's most valuable asset - happy, motivated, and fulfilled?
Closing Exercise: How do you know you've got the right people in your firm? How are you delivering the working experience for your employees, and how do you know that they can carry out the firm mission?
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During your hiring process, what is one behavioral interview question that you can use to evaluate for this?
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Status check: can your employees recite your Mission and Values?
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Schedule weekly one on one meetings with your employees.
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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Have you progressed beyond the dark ages of stodgy, antiquated law practice? If you're listening to this show, I bet you have, but has your service delivery fully embraced the current experience economy? What does that even mean? Our guest, Joe Pine, is here to explain. Joe is a distinguished author, speaker, and management advisor. We focus our talk largely around his influential book, The Experience Economy, and what that means for law firm owners.
As our economy has shifted from a simple commodity-based one to a much more refined experience-based economy, our offerings and service delivery must change. Joe explains the five tenets that should guide your offerings in the modern economy. You should be:
- Robust 2. Cohesive 3. Personal 4. Engaging 5. Transformative
That final step, transformation, is crucial. You need to be defining the outcome of the experience and how you change your clients' situations.
Joe explains each step in detail, and gives examples of how you can employ each one in your firm.
Find Joe at https://strategichorizons.com/, on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/, or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/joepine.
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Now that we've laid the groundwork for building great service, and talked about how to avoid pitfalls, we should really define the scale that we're grading service on. We are, after all, the Five Star Counsel Podcast! So what makes a "Five Star" experience?
I'll give some detailed examples of what goes into an exemplary, five star experience for a law firm, and even work backwards to talk about the ways firms earn less than great reviews. All of this is setting the stage for the next few episodes, where we'll dive deep into the service component of a law business, and get into the nitty-gritty of service delivery.
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Before we dive deeper into what service is, let's take a look at what service ISN'T. I like to classify these distractions, marketing ploys, and wow-factor missteps as Red Herrings. This is something that you give to your client that doesn't actually move the needle for them. Your law firm isn't a procurement agent, so don't buy stuff for clients that they didn't need as a part of your service.
The misconception we've got to address here is that great service means great gifts, or over the top moments of shock and surprise. Or that you have to wow a big client with fancy touches and palatial offices. It's just not true. I'll walk through a handful of common red herrings that come up in the legal field, and differentiate service from marketing (marketing is okay too!) from flat-out wasted money and time. Closing exercise: Examine your firm's red herrings and eliminate the things that aren't moving the needle for your clients or your bottom line. Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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Before we dive deeper into what service is, let's take a look at what service ISN'T. I like to classify these distractions, marketing ploys, and wow-factor missteps as Red Herrings. This is something that you give to your client that doesn't actually move the needle for them. Your law firm isn't a procurement agent, so don't buy stuff for clients that they didn't need as a part of your service.
The misconception we've got to address here is that great service means great gifts, or over the top moments of shock and surprise. Or that you have to wow a big client with fancy touches and palatial offices. It's just not true. I'll walk through a handful of common red herrings that come up in the legal field, and differentiate service from marketing (marketing is okay too!) from flat-out wasted money and time. Closing exercise: Examine your firm's red herrings and eliminate the things that aren't moving the needle for your clients or your bottom line. Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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What does it mean to have "your process"? How do you make sure that everyone on your team knows what to do, and when to do it? We're getting in the weeds on how to set up your practice so you know what's happening with all of your clients, at a glance.
The reason we're spending the time on this is to make sure that everybody on your team knows where every client is at their particular stage in the process. Most of us will have many more than just one client, and we need to be able to know who is responsible for what and that person needs to know what happens next in our process.
Your process is indelibly tied to service - it creates a framework for repeatable, predictable service for each client and a failsafe to keep things from slipping through the cracks.
Closing Exercise: What is your firm's process? How are you going to manage the forest? Detail out your actual stages and who is responsible for each within each practice area of your firm.
Find a copy of John's stages on this episode's podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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What does it mean to have "your process"? How do you make sure that everyone on your team knows what to do, and when to do it? We're getting in the weeds on how to set up your practice so you know what's happening with all of your clients, at a glance.
The reason we're spending the time on this is to make sure that everybody on your team knows where every client is at their particular stage in the process. Most of us will have many more than just one client, and we need to be able to know who is responsible for what and that person needs to know what happens next in our process.
Your process is indelibly tied to service - it creates a framework for repeatable, predictable service for each client and a failsafe to keep things from slipping through the cracks.
Closing Exercise: What is your firm's process? How are you going to manage the forest? Detail out your actual stages and who is responsible for each within each practice area of your firm.
Find a copy of John's stages on this episode's podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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Five Star Counsel recorded live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We were joined by Clio's VP of Financial Services, Ben Brideaux to chat about what he sees happening in the payment space around legal services.
I think most attorneys know that getting clients to pay and handling those payments is a challenge. But largely, payments are an afterthought in client service.
If we want to meet the client where they are, payment is part of that - 65% of clients want online payments and 72% want payment plans! Ben shares how Clio and the modern legal industry at large are making payments more frictionless, simple, and giving everyone more choice.
Find Ben on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/benbrideaux/
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Five Star Counsel recorded live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We were joined by Clio's VP of Financial Services, Ben Brideaux to chat about what he sees happening in the payment space around legal services.
I think most attorneys know that getting clients to pay and handling those payments is a challenge. But largely, payments are an afterthought in client service.
If we want to meet the client where they are, payment is part of that - 65% of clients want online payments and 72% want payment plans! Ben shares how Clio and the modern legal industry at large are making payments more frictionless, simple, and giving everyone more choice.
Find Ben on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/benbrideaux/
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Now that we've defined our firm's mission, vision, and values, we need to really hone in on exactly HOW we help our clients and how we measure it. How exactly do we move the needle for our clients and define success?
As customers grow more savvy, the legal industry is not immune - potential clients have problems, and they want to know that this expensive work is going to solve them. It's not enough to assure a client that you do mysterious shadowy work for them, bill them for it, and that they'll be better off in the end. You need to spell out where they are, the problems you're going to solve, and what success looks like.
I'll discuss how expert status and the idea of Value Over Replacement Professional (VoRP) plays into this, and ways you can turn a potentially unknown and vague conclusion into a clear path of value for your client.
I know you probably can't guarantee a particular outcome for your client as an attorney, but you CAN spell out what your client's journey from problem to potential solution looks like. You can even guarantee your work, even if you can guarantee a legal outcome.
Closing Exercise: Define your needle and your guarantee.
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What problems do your clients come to you to solve? Where do your clients get stuck in the process? And how can you help them get past those problems more easily?
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How will people know if you've succeeded? Have you defined "success"?
-
We've created the Estate Score so people know what we've accomplished. What kind of qualitative/quantitative, concrete value increase can you demonstrate to your client?
-
Even if you can't guarantee an outcome, can you guarantee your work? Your service? Your client's satisfaction?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
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Now that we've defined our firm's mission, vision, and values, we need to really hone in on exactly HOW we help our clients and how we measure it. How exactly do we move the needle for our clients and define success?
As customers grow more savvy, the legal industry is not immune - potential clients have problems, and they want to know that this expensive work is going to solve them. It's not enough to assure a client that you do mysterious shadowy work for them, bill them for it, and that they'll be better off in the end. You need to spell out where they are, the problems you're going to solve, and what success looks like.
I'll discuss how expert status and the idea of Value Over Replacement Professional (VoRP) plays into this, and ways you can turn a potentially unknown and vague conclusion into a clear path of value for your client.
I know you probably can't guarantee a particular outcome for your client as an attorney, but you CAN spell out what your client's journey from problem to potential solution looks like. You can even guarantee your work, even if you can guarantee a legal outcome.
Closing Exercise: Define your needle and your guarantee.
-
What problems do your clients come to you to solve? Where do your clients get stuck in the process? And how can you help them get past those problems more easily?
-
How will people know if you've succeeded? Have you defined "success"?
-
We've created the Estate Score so people know what we've accomplished. What kind of qualitative/quantitative, concrete value increase can you demonstrate to your client?
-
Even if you can't guarantee an outcome, can you guarantee your work? Your service? Your client's satisfaction?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
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Five Star Counsel recorded live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We were joined by data guru and Clio's in-house Decision Scientist, Nika Kabiri, who walked us through The Top 6 Factors Clients Use When Hiring a Firm, as determined while collecting data for this year's Legal Trends Report.
Nika used client feedback and data metrics to order the six factors thusly:
-
Reviews - These matter most by far. Specificity and authenticity in the review is most valuable, and total numbers of reviews may scale based on practice area, geography, etc.
-
Geography/proximity to clients - This makes sense, especially where particular jurisdictions are a factor.
-
Responsiveness - People hate uncertainty, and you can minimize it with communication, by prioritizing returning calls and emails, and systematizing your responses.
-
Billing type - Alternative billing structures like flat fee or subscription may remove uncertainty and open doors for certain clients.
-
Schedule availability - Flexibility in meeting hours and allowing virtual can be a factor for some.
-
Commercial office space - Almost completely negligible, and did not make a significant impact to potential clients.
Find Nika on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikakabiri/
FiveStarCounsel.com
Ask a question and we'll answer on the show!
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Five Star Counsel recorded live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We were joined by data guru and Clio's in-house Decision Scientist, Nika Kabiri, who walked us through The Top 6 Factors Clients Use When Hiring a Firm, as determined while collecting data for this year's Legal Trends Report.
Nika used client feedback and data metrics to order the six factors thusly:
-
Reviews - These matter most by far. Specificity and authenticity in the review is most valuable, and total numbers of reviews may scale based on practice area, geography, etc.
-
Geography/proximity to clients - This makes sense, especially where particular jurisdictions are a factor.
-
Responsiveness - People hate uncertainty, and you can minimize it with communication, by prioritizing returning calls and emails, and systematizing your responses.
-
Billing type - Alternative billing structures like flat fee or subscription may remove uncertainty and open doors for certain clients.
-
Schedule availability - Flexibility in meeting hours and allowing virtual can be a factor for some.
-
Commercial office space - Almost completely negligible, and did not make a significant impact to potential clients.
Find Nika on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikakabiri/
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Your Mission is your guidance for your future clients as to you act for them. This will guide their decision to reach out and hire you and your practice.
The idea that your firm can do anything really means your firm can do nothing - you won't stand out. You need to know what you do best, and so do employees and clients. It helps you stand out and build towards your goal.
No matter the size, style, or area of practice of your firm, you will benefit from a clear and explicit mission visible to your clients. Your mission should be front and center on your web page on your home page and for my website you'll see it's right there as the first thing in bold text.
We'll talk about what should go into your mission, share some disparate examples from Four Seasons and McDonalds, and share my "top 3 in the city" philosophy on specialization.
Closing Exercise: What's your mission? Finish this sentence. We help [targeted clients] [solve targeted problem].
- What's the mountaintop that you're actually helping clients to get to?
- What pain point(s) do you address?
- How does your firm solve that problem?
- Who are your clients?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
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Your Mission is your guidance for your future clients as to you act for them. This will guide their decision to reach out and hire you and your practice.
The idea that your firm can do anything really means your firm can do nothing - you won't stand out. You need to know what you do best, and so do employees and clients. It helps you stand out and build towards your goal.
No matter the size, style, or area of practice of your firm, you will benefit from a clear and explicit mission visible to your clients. Your mission should be front and center on your web page on your home page and for my website you'll see it's right there as the first thing in bold text.
We'll talk about what should go into your mission, share some disparate examples from Four Seasons and McDonalds, and share my "top 3 in the city" philosophy on specialization.
Closing Exercise: What's your mission? Finish this sentence. We help [targeted clients] [solve targeted problem].
- What's the mountaintop that you're actually helping clients to get to?
- What pain point(s) do you address?
- How does your firm solve that problem?
- Who are your clients?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on the podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
Ask a question and we'll answer on the show!
Get our FREE client service whitepaper!
Five Star Counsel recorded live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We were very excited to be joined by Clio Co-Founder and CEO Jack Newton for a dive into his latest
We define and make distinctions between client service and experience and discuss how to make your service delivery CREATE the experience you want your clients to have.
Jack pulls lessons from his earlier workshop session at ClioCon and gives concrete tips and examples of the ways service can work for the experience you want your firm to deliver.
We discuss how process is related to and dictates your client's experience and journey. We talk about annoyance mapping and how it can help remove friction points from your service. We lastly get into how iteration, experimenting, and a willingness to fail on small levels can be a key to your success.
Find materials from Jack's workshop at https://community.clio.com/ and find Jack on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackbnewton/ or Twitter at https://twitter.com/jack_newton
Five Star Counsel recorded live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We were very excited to be joined by Clio Co-Founder and CEO Jack Newton for a dive into his latest
We define and make distinctions between client service and experience and discuss how to make your service delivery CREATE the experience you want your clients to have.
Jack pulls lessons from his earlier workshop session at ClioCon and gives concrete tips and examples of the ways service can work for the experience you want your firm to deliver.
We discuss how process is related to and dictates your client's experience and journey. We talk about annoyance mapping and how it can help remove friction points from your service. We lastly get into how iteration, experimenting, and a willingness to fail on small levels can be a key to your success.
Find materials from Jack's workshop at https://community.clio.com/ and find Jack on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackbnewton/ or Twitter at https://twitter.com/jack_newton
Five Star Counsel is live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We'll start the week by welcoming Joshua Lenon, Lawyer in Residence at Clio, to discuss the 2022 Legal Trends Report.
We'll get a deep dive into the survey and Clio usage data collected around work/life balance, and stats on flexible, expanded work hours and workdays. Firms leaning into a self-managed workday will likely be the most successful in hiring and retaining great staff.
Office use has dropped dramatically, never having returned to 2019 levels. Law firms are becoming a state of mind, less a physical place.
They also found higher level of satisfaction from firms using cloud-based legal management software, Clio or otherwise. Lawyers delegating more and less time being business managers.
Lastly we discuss how clients and lawyers prefer to handle payments in today's market, and how a preference for flat fees, clear budgets, and subscription models may present opportunities for your firm.
Five Star Counsel is live from Clio Cloud Con 2022 in Nashville, TN! We'll be talking with experts and execs in the legal community about what's next and how it will shape the future of client service.
We'll start the week by welcoming Joshua Lenon, Lawyer in Residence at Clio, to discuss the 2022 Legal Trends Report.
We'll get a deep dive into the survey and Clio usage data collected around work/life balance, and stats on flexible, expanded work hours and workdays. Firms leaning into a self-managed workday will likely be the most successful in hiring and retaining great staff.
Office use has dropped dramatically, never having returned to 2019 levels. Law firms are becoming a state of mind, less a physical place.
They also found higher level of satisfaction from firms using cloud-based legal management software, Clio or otherwise. Lawyers delegating more and less time being business managers.
Lastly we discuss how clients and lawyers prefer to handle payments in today's market, and how a preference for flat fees, clear budgets, and subscription models may present opportunities for your firm.
When we think about the three-legged stool that makes up each of our practices, we think about the owners (which is probably you listening to this podcast right now), our employees (the staff who helps us build this), and our clients (the people we are serving)
We first talked about our vision, which is what guides us as the owners of the practice in what we're building.
VALUES are what our employees will use to guide their actions on a daily basis. Think of values as how you build culture - culture is how you consistently act, and values are the basis of your culture and provide guidance to your employees when you are not there.
Occasionally your employees are going to be in situations where you haven't specifically prepped them for. The values should guide them in making the right decision every time or at least a close- enough-to-right decision that the client gets what they need until your employee can get a better answer.
These are simple maxims that guide your firm's behavior and help make good choices. Let's not confuse the firm's values with your own personal values. Personal values may be occasionally at odds with your firm's (or with any job, or work in general).
Closing Exercise: Values are the shorthand for how your firm behaves. What are they? 1. Write two sentences about what that means 2. Include two examples of what that looks like in practice.
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on our podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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Join John and Five Star Counsel at Clio Cloud Con on October 10-11th in Nashville, TN! Click this link to save $300 on your registration! http://www.eventbrite.com/e/177608530897/?discount=Five-Star-Counsel-Podcast
When we think about the three-legged stool that makes up each of our practices, we think about the owners (which is probably you listening to this podcast right now), our employees (the staff who helps us build this), and our clients (the people we are serving)
We first talked about our vision, which is what guides us as the owners of the practice in what we're building.
VALUES are what our employees will use to guide their actions on a daily basis. Think of values as how you build culture - culture is how you consistently act, and values are the basis of your culture and provide guidance to your employees when you are not there.
Occasionally your employees are going to be in situations where you haven't specifically prepped them for. The values should guide them in making the right decision every time or at least a close- enough-to-right decision that the client gets what they need until your employee can get a better answer.
These are simple maxims that guide your firm's behavior and help make good choices. Let's not confuse the firm's values with your own personal values. Personal values may be occasionally at odds with your firm's (or with any job, or work in general).
Closing Exercise: Values are the shorthand for how your firm behaves. What are they? 1. Write two sentences about what that means 2. Include two examples of what that looks like in practice.
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on our podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
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The first three modules of the Five Star Bootcamp address three core building blocks for your firm's success - your firm's VISION, VALUES, and MISSION.
This episode covers your firm's VISION.
Your Vision is guidance for you, the owner. What are you building towards? This will guide your behavior as you build your practice, even if it's just a practice inside a larger firm.
This may seem very obvious and fluffy, but we're here to set out where you, as the leader of your practice, are going.
That practice may be one person, it may be 100. But we need to get down in writing what your ideal, successful firm should look like.
We want to detail what your firm's mountaintop is, but not why are you're trying to get there. You'll have whatever exterior goals you want (work less, more money, etc), but you as the owner wouldn't share that with the employees because it doesn't serve the firm. You wouldn't tell a prospective employee that the firm exists so I can work less.
As the leader of your practice, your job is to align the resources available to get to that mountaintop. This is what you're building towards, and why you're making the particular choices you make.
Exercise:
What does your ideal firm look like, in your words?
1. How many employees?
2. Expert or volume practice?
3. Expert status?
4. What is your goal for the practice (even if you're inside a larger practice?)
5. Whom do you serve, and how do you serve them?
6. What don't you do?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on our podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
Ask a question and we'll answer on the show!
Get our FREE client service whitepaper!
Join John and Five Star Counsel at Clio Cloud Con on October 10-11th in Nashville, TN! Click this link to save $300 on your registration! http://www.eventbrite.com/e/177608530897/?discount=Five-Star-Counsel-Podcast
The first three modules of the Five Star Bootcamp address three core building blocks for your firm's success - your firm's VISION, VALUES, and MISSION.
This episode covers your firm's VISION.
Your Vision is guidance for you, the owner. What are you building towards? This will guide your behavior as you build your practice, even if it's just a practice inside a larger firm.
This may seem very obvious and fluffy, but we're here to set out where you, as the leader of your practice, are going.
That practice may be one person, it may be 100. But we need to get down in writing what your ideal, successful firm should look like.
We want to detail what your firm's mountaintop is, but not why are you're trying to get there. You'll have whatever exterior goals you want (work less, more money, etc), but you as the owner wouldn't share that with the employees because it doesn't serve the firm. You wouldn't tell a prospective employee that the firm exists so I can work less.
As the leader of your practice, your job is to align the resources available to get to that mountaintop. This is what you're building towards, and why you're making the particular choices you make.
Exercise:
What does your ideal firm look like, in your words?
1. How many employees?
2. Expert or volume practice?
3. Expert status?
4. What is your goal for the practice (even if you're inside a larger practice?)
5. Whom do you serve, and how do you serve them?
6. What don't you do?
Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on our podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
Ask a question and we'll answer on the show!
Get our FREE client service whitepaper!
Join John and Five Star Counsel at Clio Cloud Con on October 10-11th in Nashville, TN! Click this link to save $300 on your registration! http://www.eventbrite.com/e/177608530897/?discount=Five-Star-Counsel-Podcast
We're thrilled to be starting our 7-week bootcamp for your firm’s service, all based on the grand unifying theory of Five Star Counsel. This first module is a high-level overview of our approach to client service, why great service crucial in today's legal market, and how to think of your firm as a three-legged stool - something we'll be incorporating in every future episode. Most small/solo firm owners know they have room to improve their service, but determining how and where to begin is tough. John explains how we can look to amazing service companies like Four Seasons or Disney or Zappos for inspiration, but we shouldn't be blindly copying their tactics. You don't need to go above and beyond for every client or dazzle them with unexpected delights and services. You are hired to solve your client's problem, and you need to focus your firm on doing that in the most attentive, effective, thoughtful, communicative, and consistent way possible. We'll end every module with a brief exercise to help you incorporate the lessons and reflect on your firm's current status and goals. This week, John asks you to write down the three biggest areas where your firm can improve service. If John could give you a magic wand, what are the top three things you would change about the service your firm delivers right now? Now answer that from the position of your employees. Last, answer from the viewpoint of your clients. Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on our podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
Ask a question and we'll answer on the show!
Get our FREE client service whitepaper!
Join John and Five Star Counsel at Clio Cloud Con on October 10-11th in Nashville, TN! Click this link to save $300 on your registration! http://www.eventbrite.com/e/177608530897/?discount=Five-Star-Counsel-Podcast
We're thrilled to be starting our 7-week bootcamp for your firm’s service, all based on the grand unifying theory of Five Star Counsel. This first module is a high-level overview of our approach to client service, why great service crucial in today's legal market, and how to think of your firm as a three-legged stool - something we'll be incorporating in every future episode. Most small/solo firm owners know they have room to improve their service, but determining how and where to begin is tough. John explains how we can look to amazing service companies like Four Seasons or Disney or Zappos for inspiration, but we shouldn't be blindly copying their tactics. You don't need to go above and beyond for every client or dazzle them with unexpected delights and services. You are hired to solve your client's problem, and you need to focus your firm on doing that in the most attentive, effective, thoughtful, communicative, and consistent way possible. We'll end every module with a brief exercise to help you incorporate the lessons and reflect on your firm's current status and goals. This week, John asks you to write down the three biggest areas where your firm can improve service. If John could give you a magic wand, what are the top three things you would change about the service your firm delivers right now? Now answer that from the position of your employees. Last, answer from the viewpoint of your clients. Find a PDF worksheet for each episode's exercise on our podcast page at https://strohmeyerlaw.libsyn.com/ -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
Ask a question and we'll answer on the show!
Get our FREE client service whitepaper!
Join John and Five Star Counsel at Clio Cloud Con on October 10-11th in Nashville, TN! Click this link to save $300 on your registration! http://www.eventbrite.com/e/177608530897/?discount=Five-Star-Counsel-Podcast
We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around.
Service guru Lee Cockerell sat with us for a freewheeling chat about his service career and what we can learn from his time at Disney and beyond.
Lee Cockerell is a customer service icon, and I was thrilled to have him join our show. Lee served as the Executive Vice President of Operations for the Walt Disney World Resort for ten years. This means he ran 20 resort hotels with over 24,000 Guest rooms, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, 5 golf courses, a shopping village & nighttime entertainment complex - pretty much every aspect of the resort you can imagine.
Now, Lee clearly isn't an attorney, and his focus has never been in the legal field, but so much of what he does is at the heart of what I preach here: a holistic take on service that involves your clients, your staff, and your executives.
We discuss how a little something extra can go a long way with your clients, but over-the-top gift giving is a wasteful distraction.
We talk about the mistaken idea that customer service is a department. It's not just there to answer problems. It's how we deliver, and limiting it to just problem resolution means that we're doing nothing when everything goes right.
Lee's got decades of experience, and an easygoing way of discussing and thinking about integrated service techniques. He understands the true value that service can bring a company and how happy customers make for easier business and bigger bottom lines. All of this can and should be translated to you, and your firm's overall approach to service.
Find Lee at https://www.leecockerell.com or on Twitter: https://twitter.com/leecockerell
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around.
Service guru Lee Cockerell sat with us for a freewheeling chat about his service career and what we can learn from his time at Disney and beyond.
Lee Cockerell is a customer service icon, and I was thrilled to have him join our show. Lee served as the Executive Vice President of Operations for the Walt Disney World Resort for ten years. This means he ran 20 resort hotels with over 24,000 Guest rooms, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, 5 golf courses, a shopping village & nighttime entertainment complex - pretty much every aspect of the resort you can imagine.
Now, Lee clearly isn't an attorney, and his focus has never been in the legal field, but so much of what he does is at the heart of what I preach here: a holistic take on service that involves your clients, your staff, and your executives.
We discuss how a little something extra can go a long way with your clients, but over-the-top gift giving is a wasteful distraction.
We talk about the mistaken idea that customer service is a department. It's not just there to answer problems. It's how we deliver, and limiting it to just problem resolution means that we're doing nothing when everything goes right.
Lee's got decades of experience, and an easygoing way of discussing and thinking about integrated service techniques. He understands the true value that service can bring a company and how happy customers make for easier business and bigger bottom lines. All of this can and should be translated to you, and your firm's overall approach to service.
Find Lee at https://www.leecockerell.com or on Twitter: https://twitter.com/leecockerell
FiveStarCounsel.com
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Join the Five Star Counsellors FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1575616019297055
Here's a link for you to get 20% off your first year of using TextExpander! - https://fivestarcounsel.com/textexpander
As you know, we’ve been on a little break while we put together the next season of the show, and we’re super excited to share a sneak preview of what you can expect when we have our new episodes at the end of September. Season 2 will be different than what you’re used to. We won't have any guest interviews, and no cheeky diversions (well, maybe a few).
This is going to be a 7-week bootcamp for your firm’s service, all based on the grand unifying theory of Five Star Counsel. John will get into the basic outline and what to expect this season - it's exciting stuff! See you when we get back from the beach... -----
FiveStarCounsel.com
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Join John and Five Star Counsel at Clio Cloud Con on October 10-11th in Nashville, TN! Click this link to save $300 on your registration! http://www.eventbrite.com/e/177608530897/?discount=Five-Star-Counsel-Podcast
We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around.
Mike Whelan sat with us to discuss expert status, what it can mean to you, and how to market it.
We know that attorneys are respected (and paid) for having knowledge of the law. But as a lawyer, you have a defining choice to make: create your market value as either an exceptional technical expert or as an accessible relationship builder. Today, we focus on the former choice, and how to make sure folks know you're the expert.
Lawyer Forward's Mike Whelan joins us once again to unpack the various, often contradictory, ideas about being an expert that we as lawyers are constantly being told. We discuss where to draw your lines, where to focus your time and effort, the VORL (Value Over Replacement Lawyer) model, and ways to focus your expertise into products.
Find Mike on Twitter or LinkedIn
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around.
Billie Tarascio joined us with a boatload of incredible tips for supercharging your intake process.
Is your intake process getting your firm the results it needs? Is your intake process creating barriers for potential clients? Could it be refined or totally reworked?
This week, we're joined by Billie Tarascio, successful attorney and co-author of Tiger Tactics: Powerful Strategies for Winning Law Firms.
Billie is a master of the intake process, and gives us a really insightful breakdown of her own intake process, making things easier for the clients, the employees, and the owners.
We talk about how to work backwards from the total volume your firm needs to succeed, in order to create and perfect your process.
We also discuss running sales and specials on consultations, creating referral programs, optimizing your advertising spending, reframing your intake team as "advocates," and much more.
Billie even challenges me on my own approach to intake - it's a great chat full of actionable tips for your firm.
Find Billie at https://modernlawpractice.com/
or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billie-tarascio-62322bb/
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around.
Paul Kortman details out the process for turning your inbound leads into actionable data in this super-valuable chat.
Not all leads are created equal. What if you could use technology and data to qualify, predict, and automatically parse out the bad from the good from the great potential clients? With a combination of human sense, digital data, and a little bit of setup, you can have a powerful, time-saving system for scoring your leads.
Friend of the show and automation expert Paul Kortman returns to explain the concept of lead scoring, and how lawyers can use their existing client management systems and marketing platforms to create valuable analytics.
Find Paul at https://connex.digital or @namtroK on Twitter.
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. Molly McGrath joined us to deliver A TON of invaluable tips for hiring the perfect addition to your firm. Great employees + a great fit = great service.
Do you want to know how to make your job postings pop? How do you weed through a sea of applicants and land that dream employee? How do we make the hiring process better and easier for law firms?
Our guest this week is Molly McGrath of Hiring & Empowering Solutions. For nearly 25 years, she's coached and consulted law firms to get the best results from their hiring efforts.
Molly gives us a ridiculous number of tips and tricks to level up your hiring & interviewing game. Seriously, it might be a record for a Five Star Counsel episode. We cover how to approach the job posting itself, what information to put out there, how to set expectations on the interview process, and ultimately how to attract the ideal new employee for your firm.
Learn more about Hiring and Empowering at https://hiringandempowering.com/ and find Molly on Twitter at https://twitter.com/HireAndEmpower and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-hallmcgrath/
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. Molly McGrath joined us to deliver A TON of invaluable tips for hiring the perfect addition to your firm. Great employees + a great fit = great service.
Do you want to know how to make your job postings pop? How do you weed through a sea of applicants and land that dream employee? How do we make the hiring process better and easier for law firms?
Our guest this week is Molly McGrath of Hiring & Empowering Solutions. For nearly 25 years, she's coached and consulted law firms to get the best results from their hiring efforts.
Molly gives us a ridiculous number of tips and tricks to level up your hiring & interviewing game. Seriously, it might be a record for a Five Star Counsel episode. We cover how to approach the job posting itself, what information to put out there, how to set expectations on the interview process, and ultimately how to attract the ideal new employee for your firm.
Learn more about Hiring and Empowering at https://hiringandempowering.com/ and find Molly on Twitter at https://twitter.com/HireAndEmpower and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-hallmcgrath/
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. We talked to entrepreneur David Heinemeier Hansson about how to sanely grow and manage your firm.
Do you find yourself slogging through the days and weeks, buried in work? Are you frustrated at your current growth? Is your company culture simply some version of “Work hard. Bill hours. Make money?” Are you happy with that?
Our guest this week is a brilliant entrepreneur, David Heinemeier Hansson. David is the cofounder of Basecamp & HEY, creator of Ruby on Rails, author of “It Doesn’t Have To Be Crazy At Work”, race car driver, and the list goes on. But this conversation is really rooted in lessons from his book and his experience with Basecamp and work culture.
We tackle the mindset of modern firms that there just aren't enough hours in the week. You don't need more time. You don't need to work MORE. You need to work better and you need to have a mission. You need to understand why you're truly even doing this work, and at what point you're satisfied.
David walks us through his growth strategies and mindsets that led to his success, and lessons from many different companies. If growth is what you want, it doesn't need to happen all at once, or even at a constant rate.
Find David at https://dhh.dk/ or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/dhh
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. Check out our great Season 1 chat with Maddy Martin about getting your paying clients in front of the expert (you) as quickly as possible.
Great client service requires making the client's process as easy and efficient as possible. We should aim to minimize the time it takes for prospective clients to go from first contact to face-to-face expertise from you. Our friend Maddy Martin of Smith AI joins us to discuss the ways to increase that "speed to expert," and why it benefits both you and the client.
Find Maddy on Twitter or LinkedIn.
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We're on a brief break while we gear up for Season 2 of FSC, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. Check out our crucial Season 1 chat with Adam Anderson about growth stages in your business.
If you want to effectively grow, scale, and improve your business effectively, you need to understand where your business lies in the growth continuum from scrappy startup to mature, thriving company.
Adam Anderson of Hook Security has an amazing take on this spectrum, broken into The Four Stages of Business. We share that today, so you can plug your own firm in, make the right growth moves, and determine the next profit levers to pull.
Find Adam on YouTube, Twitter at https://twitter.com/AdamAndersonCEO or at www.AdamAndersonCEO.com
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It's Five Star Counsel's 100th episode!
We're amazed and thrilled to have shared the last 100 shows with you. We've had truly incredible guests, and we hope you've learned a whole lot along with us.
We've used our time thus far to talk through John's big ideas on service, get inspiration and guidance from smart people in the legal field, and continue our quest to help imagine the kind of firm the founders of Amazon, Disney, and Four Seasons would build.
We'll recap some of our favorite episodes, and main guideposts, and then give a preview of what to expect from the show going forward. We can't wait for you to join us.
In the mean time, we'll be replaying our favorites over the summer before resuming new episodes in the fall. Stay tuned!
Why do we attend legal conferences? What makes a great conference? Where do we find the most value? How can we make the most of legal conferences and how do we make the mediocre ones better?
After a couple recent conferences, I got to talking with friend of the show, Mike Whelan, about what makes bad conferences bad, and makes great conferences great.
We all know that designed learning sessions can sometimes be a waste, and the current CLE system is pretty broken.
Sometimes it's hard to even remember why you're at a conference in the first place!
But networking and community are still a huge value source from conferences, especially post-pandemic lockdown. Making and strengthening your connections, gaining knowledge, and learning together with colleagues makes the shared experience even more valuable.
Mike and I discuss how and why conferences are succeeding and failing, and what organizers and attendees can do to ensure all the effort is worthwhile.
Find Mike on Twitter or LinkedIn or at https://www.lawyerforward.com.
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Where should we be looking for inspiration when improving service in our firms?
If you've been listening for a while, you know, I've spent a lot of time talking about my time with the Four Seasons Hotels, but of course it's not the only place you can get high-end experiences.
This week, we're bringing you a conversation between me and Ernie Svenson, otherwise known as Ernie the Attorney.
Ernie spent the first part of his career as a commercial litigator and a large New Orleans firm. He left in 2006 to start a low overhead paperless solo practice. In 2009, he created Law Firm Autopilot and made helping his lawyers build their own practices his full-time mission.
But even before he became "Ernie the Attorney," he was "Ernie the Waiter" at the high-end restaurant Commander's Palace in New Orleans.
Commander's Palace is one of my favorite restaurants and he and I talk about the things that happened there and the things that we can take into our own practices to use to structure things in order to make it easy for owners, employees, and guests to get the best service possible.
We shared this conversation between our two podcasts, Ernie's being Law Firm Autopilot, which you should definitely check out!
Find Ernie at https://ernietheattorney.net, on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ernieattorney or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/ernieattorney.
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Does customer service ever feel extraneous to you? Does it seem like too much effort and too lofty a goal for your busy work week? How can you achieve amazing service and why should you bother?
Our guest this week is Shep Hyken, Chief Amazement Officer of Shepard Presentations, and an award winning author, speaker, and consultant on customer service.
Shep and I have a really fun back-to-basics conversation about customer service in the legal field. Shep has consulted for firms huge and small, and has so much great insight on how you can achieve a high level of service in your own business.
More importantly, we discuss WHY you should focus on service delivery, namely that your service is being compared to great brands in peoples' everyday lives, not just other law firms. You need to rise to a higher level of service than you may realize, and making your service delivery AMAZING might be easier than you think.
Shep and I are largely aligned in our approach to client service, but we differ enough to make this a fun chat.
Find Shep at https://hyken.com and on Twitter at http://twitter.com/Hyken and LinkedIn at http://www.linkedin.com/in/shephyken
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Are you a believer of the old idea that "the customer is always right?" What happens when that rule comes into conflict with a trusted employee? Is there room for a better, more holistic approach to your firm's service?
Our guest this week, Stephanie Everett, is here to advocate for a people-focused, not just client-focused, approach to running your firm and serving your clients. Stephanie is the VP of Community Success at Lawyerist and runs her own law firm consulting and growth coaching firm.
Stephanie and I discuss what it means to be people-focused and how many firm owners and managers often miss the mark by putting their employees second. Your employees are a truly valuable resource, and understanding their goals and needs is crucial to your firm's success.
This doesn't mean you're ignoring your clients' needs; rather, it's about finding the right balance between all three legs of the stool: owners, employees, and clients, and aligning your values with your employees.
Find Stephanie and Lawyerist at the following links:
https://www.facebook.com/stephanie.everett.79
https://www.facebook.com/Lawyerist
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanieaeverett/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/lawyerist-media-llc/
https://twitter.com/StephAEverett
https://twitter.com/lawyerist
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How do you interact with your clients? Is it a clinical, business-only relationship? Could you be more empathetic with your clients? Should you? What is the true value of empathy with your client, both to the client and your business?
Our guest this week is Jordan Furlong of Law Twenty One. Jordan is a legal sector analyst and advisor who’s deeply invested in a better future for the legal profession and the society it serves.
Jordan joins me for a fantastic and lofty conversation about the ways that attorneys are trained to approach clients, care about them and their needs, and view their role in their clients' lives.
Lawyers are trained to be emotionally divorced practitioners of the law. We're trained not to display empathy for our clients, and to remain neutral and professionally distant. Empathy is often even seen as irrelevant or a waste of time.
But Jordan argues that we should let those empathetic conversations be our guide as counselors and build trust with the client. We are both a problem solver and anxiety reducer for our clients.
We discuss ideas on how we can teach the next wave of attorneys to re-think empathy and a general willingness to do things differently. We discuss the value of failure, and how it's hard to accept failure in the legal field, even when innovating. It takes courage to be willing to fail, and taking small risks is the only way forward.
This is a great chat, and we could all get a lot out of approaching our work this way.
Find Jordan at https://www.law21.ca or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/jordan_law21.
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When's the last time you looked at your website's privacy policy? Do you even have one? Are you automating tedious tasks like this?
Our guest this week is Donata Stroink-Skillrud, founder of Termageddon, a company that automates the creation of Privacy Policies, Terms of Service and more, and keeps those automatically updated on your site as your website and regulations change.
We talk about how Termageddon helps to cover your bases legally-speaking, and why you, as a firm owner of any size, should even care. But more broadly, we have a great conversation about how attorneys should be using technology to automate and create iterative processes for their practices.
We want to automate the least valuable and most annoying work, but also as a safety net to ensure high-level service and ensure your firm's standards are consistently met.
Check out Termageddon's very cool privacy bill tracker here: https://termageddon.com/us-privacy-bill-tracker/
Find Donata on Twitter at https://twitter.com/DonataSkillrud or on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/donata-stroink-skillrud/
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Are you comfortable with your online presence? Can you effectively separate your business and personal personas? Should they be the same? What are the Rules and guidelines for playing online, especially on Twitter?
Our guest this week is attorney Ruth Carter of Carter Law and GeekLawFirm.com. Ruth's practice covers IP, social media and internet law, and they have a great set of best practices to help you avoid the pitfalls that are so easy to slip into online.
We'll talk about their very unique terms of service for receiving cold email requests, and simple ways you can protect your personal and professional brands while still maintaining your natural personality and humor.
No matter how frequently you're putting yourself out there online, these are great tips and steps to keep in mind to keep yourself safe and sane.
Find Ruth at http://www.GeekLawFirm.com, on Twitter at https://twitter.com/rbcarter or LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruthcarter.
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John is back, delivering some fun, quick-hitting tips, tackling a host of great listener questions.
How do you respond to clients who want to go to the front of the line and skip your normal intake process?
How to respond when you've screwed up?
You mentioning Disney and Four Seasons makes sense when discussing service, but why do you include Amazon?
Do you have any tips on creating internal training materials?
How often do you follow up with potential clients after an initial contact/call?
How rigid or flexible do I need to be with clients who ask for payment plans?
What are the top three things a new attorney should have figured out before starting solo?
What's up with all the Legos?!
As we mention at the end of the episode, if you have questions for our next Q&A episode, please send those our way at john@fivestarcounsel.com or on any of our social channels!
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Do you come from a non-legal professional background? Wonder how you can build a practice that draws from that knowledge you have?
Our guest this week is Boyd Shepherd, founder of Legal Dental.
Boyd started his career as a dentist, and eventually transitioned to practicing law, focusing his specialty on helping dental professionals with their particular legal issues. Sitting in the Venn diagram overlap of attorneys and dental practice, he's found a successful niche practice, and has launched a repository of information and related paid courses designed exclusively for the dental profession.
Boyd tells us how he's structured his online courses as part of the LegalDental.com Law Library, and how that’s making it easier to better engage with his specific clientele. This is not just a great bonus income stream, but one that cements Boyd as an expert in his particular niche.
Ultimately, this is a great case study on how you can come from a wildly different professional background, deeply specialize, and thrive as an attorney.
Find Boyd at https://www.legaldental.com, email him at boyd@legaldental.com, or give him a call at 832-788-4100.
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This week, we're once again taking a look back at the last nine episodes of the show, recapping the main points, and adding a little more perspective and discussion.
We've had such great guests, and want to really sink these lessons and takeaways in, and give you a chance to hear the main points on any episodes you might have missed.
- The Art of Email Delegation w/ Lizzy Brooks
- Email Delegation for Attorneys w/ Maddy Martin, Jess Birken, and Tyson Mutrux
- Finding Your Email Solutions w/ Jess Birken
- Delivering Real Value with Subscriptions w/ Jonathan Tobin
- Going Solo and Thriving with Your Practice w/ Carolyn Elefant
- Tech Trends You Shouldn't Spend Money On (Yet) w/ Jess Birken and Jared Correia
- Building the Data-Driven Law Firm w/ Ed Walters
- FSC Live from ABA TECHSHOW!
- The Consumerization of Legal w/ Kim Bennett
As we mention at the end of the episode, if you have questions for our upcoming Q&A, please send those our way at john@fivestarcounsel.com or on any of our social channels!
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Do you understand what legal consumers actually want? What level of service they need? What potential clients are afraid of? What can we, as attorneys, learn from other non-legal industries?
Our guest this week is Kim Bennett. Kim is the founder of K Bennett Law LLC, a boutique subscription legal services law firm that helps small businesses protect their brands and grow profitable and sustainable 7-figure organizations.
We discuss how to get out of the lawyer mindset and look at your practice from the outside. We have a lot to learn from other industries, and the potential for growth is tremendous.
We discuss how the legal industry is stuck in a mode where we act as a scolding parent to our confused and petulant clients, instead of anticipating their needs and understanding their concerns.
We need to find ways to focus on what the clients are actually looking for and meeting clients where they are, and let that transform our approach to legal services.
Find Kim at https://www.kbennettlaw.com, Atlanta Legal Tech, https://www.fidulegal.com/ or on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kybennett/) or Twitter (http://twitter.com/kbennettlaw).
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In March 2022, I attended the fabulous ABA Tech Show in Chicago, and I had a chance to hear from some amazing speakers, and even chat with a few for our show. I asked our guests the same four questions:
- Describe the topic you’re talking about at the conference
- Give me one takeaway from your session
- Tell me one thing you've learned here at ABA Techshow
- And lastly, what's one of the biggest distractions facing lawyers today?
I spoke with some familiar names, and a few new guests: Gyi Tsakalakis, Jeannine Lambert, Ivy Grey, Jon Tobin, Jacqueline Schafer, Josh Weaver, Ann-Marie Rabago, Maddy Martin, and Bob Ambrogi. The answers I got were pretty fantastic, and I want to share them with you here this week. -----
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How often do you make decisions based on a limited sample size? A hunch? A loose smattering of options and outcomes you've experienced?
It's time you start making your business and legal decisions based on hard data. Our guest this week, Ed Walters, is the founder and CEO of Fastcase, a legal intelligence company, and author of the book Data-Driven Law.
He joins to tell us how to get started and go from anecdotes to anec-data.
We discuss how you can start using data that's currently available to start making better-informed decisions, win more cases, and attract more clients.
Data can even provide a new class of legal services, growing the entire market for legal services, and reduce the risk your firm and clients take. We even discuss what AI is likely to bring to the practice of law.
This is a fascinating interview, and one that could change the way you practice, for the better.
Find Ed at www.fastcase.com, www.docketalarm.com, or Twitter at https://twitter.com/EJWalters
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If you spend any amount of time online, you're getting bombarded with every new tech invention that's out there, but should you be investing any of your time as a lawyer in getting these new technologies invested and integrated in your business?
I've brought back Jess Birken and Jared Correia, because they both have strong thoughts on how and when we should be integrating new tech. We tackle how lawyers should approach the metaverse, VR/AR, NFTs, Crypto, Web3, and subscriptions.
It was fun sitting down with two frequent guests on the podcast and really letting loose on what we think about a lot of the tech trends that are out there, but might not be ready for prime time for lawyers just yet.
Find Jess on Twitter @JessBirken or at https://hackyourpractice.lawyer
Find Jared at RedCaveLegal.com and subscribe to The Legal Toolkit Podcast.
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Are you toying with the idea of going solo, but scared to take the leap? How do you know when it's time? How do you know where to start? How you do effectively serve your clients and run a business by yourself?
Our guest this week is Carolyn Elefant, and she's a guru for lawyers ready to start their own practice. She's the author of "Solo By Choice," which is being re-pressed and founder of MyShingle.com, a resource guide for solo attorneys.
Carolyn and I dive into our respective journeys into going solo and breaking out of the big firm paradigms. Going solo is about creating something that custom fits your strengths and goals, and at the same time creating a better, more dedicated client experience and better access to justice.
We talk about a range of challenges, like how to create frictionless client experiences, getting the ideal client to self-select, and controlling your own hours, pricing, and sanity. We also cover the tools and systems we use to stay successful - virtual assistants, tech tools, and a great team.
Ultimately, it's all about the freedom to create the kind of practice you want, and the myriad ways you can shape that and be set up for success.
Find Carolyn at https://myshingle.com or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/carolynelefant
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Could you be making more money with a subscription service? Possibly, but how do you create one tailored to your client base? How do we make sure we're delivering value for subscribing clients?
Our guest this week is Jon Tobin, founder of Counsel For Creators, where he helps creative businesses on legal matters involving intellectual property, technology, or the arts. Counsel for Creators is centered around an affordable subscription program, with more specific legal services offered from there.
We know that subscription-style legal services can work in a large variety of practice areas, but how do we actually deliver value for those subscribing clients? How do we price it right and set it up to make sense for the firm? It's not just mailbox money - you need to make it worthwhile for everyone.
Jon has a ton of experience and success in the subscription world, and he shares a lot of tips and lessons he's learned along the way.
Find Jon at https://counselforcreators.com/, on Instagram @counselforcreators, or Twitter at https://twitter.com/jontobinla
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How many hours a week are you spending on your email? Think about it. Is that time spent really your highest and best use? How are you going to find YOUR email solution?
If you've been listening to the last two episodes, I think you know that you should be thinking about outsourcing your inbox. But there are still so many questions about how to really put this in place without dropping the ball in the meantime. You have doubts that you can really hand off your possibly most important communication channel.
In this, part 3 of our series on outsourcing email, I sit with attorney Jess Birken to have a fun, expansive discussion of the challenges of handing off your email to an assistant, how to get started, and how to ensure that you're even more productive and responsive to clients, colleagues, and your own team.
Find Jess on Twitter @JessBirken or at https://hackyourpractice.lawyer
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How do lawyers get started with an email-focused assistant? How do we overcome the biggest personal mental roadblocks to handing off those reins? What’s stopping YOU from doing this today? This week’s episode is a little different than normal - it’s episode two in our three-episode series on outsourcing email. I took part in a panel discussion hosted by our friend Maddy Martin at Smith AI, focused on how to integrate a virtual email assistant. I’m joined by attorneys Jess Birken and Tyson Mutrux. Our discussion gets to the heart of the unique challenges attorneys face with regards to email and communication in general. It’s tough to let go of that control, but as we discuss in last week’s episode, the benefits are tremendous. Our panel discusses how to ensure consistency with an assistant, how to find, train, and get started with your assistant, and even how to address confidentiality and security issues. I’m a fan of everyone involved here, and I think our discussion is very worthy of your time. Let’s get to it. Find Maddy on Twitter or LinkedIn.
Find Jess on Twitter @JessBirken or at https://hackyourpractice.lawyer
Find Tyson on Twitter at https://twitter.com/lawyertyson or LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/tysonmutrux
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Are you spending half your day replying to emails? Are you staring at a big red number in the thousands on your email app? How can you possibly get your emails under control and even off your plate?
Emails are robbing you of your valuable time, and though it sounds impossible, you really can delegate and hand most of that work off to an assistant.
This episode is the first in a three-part series of episodes focused on email delegation.
To get us started, our guest this week is Lizzy Brooks, the founder of Virtually Brooks, a virtual assistant agency that specializes in taking all that email work off your plate.
We discuss the art of email delegation, and the challenges many folks find in getting started. It may be hard to let go of that control, especially when you're being addressed directly in an email, but the fact is, so much of email is task-related, and really can be outsourced. It takes a little time to get set up, and for your assistant to learn your voice and your business, but the amount you can save could be hours a day.
We discuss how to get started, the processes and procedures you need in place, and how to tailor an email assistant to you, so you can be focused on your highest and best use.
Find Lizzy at https://www.virtuallybrooks.com/ or on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizzy-brooks/.
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It's time for our listeners to get their burning questions answered! John delivers some fun, quick-hitting tips, tackling a host of great listener questions ranging from tech tools to gifting to Web3 to John's penchant for The Dillinger Escape Plan.
As we mention at the end of the episode, if you have questions for our next Q&A episode, please send those our way at john@fivestarcounsel.com or on any of our social channels!
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This week, we take a look back at the last nine episodes of the show, recap the main points, and give a little more perspective and discussion. We've had such great guests, and want to really sink these lessons and takeaways in. Join us for some quick-hitting breakdowns and service wisdom.
We break the episodes down thusly.
Workflow/Management/Employee Ops
- Nailing Your Interview and Hiring Process w/ Molly McGrath
- Training Your Staff for Tech Proficiency w/ Alicia Pierre
- The Eight Layers of Legal Cybersecurity w/ Tom Lambotte
- Reimagining Your Workplace for the New Normal w/ Anthony Davies
Business and Sales Ops
72. Growth Strategies Without Going Crazy w/ David Heinemeier Hansson
74. Optimizing for Google My Business w/ Paul Cashman and Wes Lungwitz
75. Perfecting Your Holistic Sales Process w/ Allison Williams
77. Utilizing Webinars to Land Your Ideal Clients w/ Paul Yokabitus
Potpourri!
78. Five Star Counsel Coaching Session w/ Greg Steele
As we mention at the end of the episode, if you have questions for our upcoming Q&A, please send those our way at john@fivestarcounsel.com or on any of our social channels!
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For the first time on this program, we're turning the tables a bit and inviting our guest to receive live feedback and consultation from John on their firm's client service systems and overall philosophy.
This week on Five Star Counsel, we're talking with Greg Steele of Greg Steele Law in Anderson, SC. Greg has some unique challenges as both a small-town Family Law attorney, and as a court-appointed Guardian ad Litem.
Greg has done a great job with his growing practice, and John's going to help him really tighten his focus and bring some clarity to his firm's overall vision, processes, and approach to client service. All the while, you get to listen in.
We want you to take this real-life case study, and put yourself in Greg's shoes. How many of these questions do you have your own answer to? What could be improved? What questions do you have?
If you have some questions or situations you'd like John to tackle in a near-future episode, or if you'd like a chance to have an on-air coaching session yourself, please email us at john@fivestarcounsel.com
Find Greg at www.gregsteelelaw.com or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/gregsteelelaw and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregrsteele/
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Are you curious about using webinars to attract clients? How do you get started? What's the right path for you and your firm?
Paul Yokabitus is our guest this week. Paul is the founder of Cary Estate Planning and Planwell Legal, where he practices Estate Planning law. Paul took what was looking like a disastrous downturn at the start of the pandemic, and turned it into a well-oiled client acquisition machine using webinars and lead-gen advertising.
Paul and I discuss how you can use webinars to attract the best possible clients for your firm, and how to get them signed up for your services. Paul details his journey into using webinars, how long it took get it up and running, and his iterative optimization process.
We cover reasons why your in-person presentations might not translate correctly for the webinar format. We get into the nuts and bolts of webinars: how to engage with the audience, how to time your webinars, how to experiment with format and ads, and perfecting your CTAs at the end. We even get into differentiation tactics that you can separate these all leads into.
These are very widely applicable tips that can be used for all kinds of practice areas, and I think you'll be really interested in hearing them.
Find Paul's work at
https://www.caryestateplanning.com
https://www.planwell.legal
https://www.discoverylegalmarketing.com
Follow Paul on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulyokabitus and Twitter at https://twitter.com/YokabitusLaw
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Is your office culture non-existent in a post-pandemic world? Are you struggling with a hybrid, virtual and in-person, work arrangement? How do you create a working environment that suits the new normal?
I think most of our listeners understand that the new expectation for many workers in the U.S. is a higher level of work flexibility, in both time and location. It's your job, and your prerogative as a business owner, to determine how much flexibility you can offer and what setup matches your firm's values and culture.
Our guest this week is Anthony Davies, Chief Revenue Officer at Forrest Solutions, where he follows outsourcing and staffing trends in the legal field, and consults on office processes and staffing arrangements for the modern law firm. Anthony gives us some macro trends he's seeing, and some real-life examples that Forrest Solutions is implementing in larger firms.
We discuss a wide range of office and staffing issues facing today's legal industry. We really focus on how to reimagine and restructure the workspace to fit the new flexible workweek, and how to do it in offices built for traditional 5-day workweeks. We discuss in-office incentives and perks, and ways to arrange and schedule the office to make it inviting and productive for your employees.
In the end, this is about service to your staff, which ultimately serves your clients well too.
Find Anthony and Forrest Solutions at https://www.forrestsolutions.com/law-firms/
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We're on a brief break this week after the holidays, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. Check out our chat with Jonathan Stark about how to ditch the billable hour pricing format.
What could your business be like if you were no longer chained to the billable hour? Do you think your business model is even feasible without the billable hour? Does making the leap away from hourly billing sound terrifying? Stupid? Suicidal?
Jonathan Stark is a former software developer who is on a mission to rid the world of hourly billing. He wrote Hourly Billing Is Nuts, hosts of the Ditching Hourly podcast, and writes a daily newsletter on pricing for independent professionals.
We've talked about the importance of being an expert, and how it's less risky than being a generalist, and we expand on that this week, and how offering fixed prices positions you as the expert who's seen this before.
This helps you differentiate yourself and your work, and avoid a race to be the cheapest option to a client.
We'll also talk about the three important questions you need to every new potential clients to answer
Why this?
Why now?
Why me?
This only scratches the surface of our discussion - I'm a big fan of Jonathan's work and I really hope you stay with us til the end - this chat could literally change the way you run your business.
Take Jonathan's free six-day email bootcamp here: https://jonathanstark.com/vpb and get on his mailing list. I am!
Follow Jonathan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jonathanstark
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Is your sales process structured? Do you even have a sales process? How can a sales process affect your overall client service?
Allison Williams of Law Firm Mentor joins us this week to discuss just that. Law Firm Mentor provides coaching services for solo and small law firms, and one of her specialties is perfecting their sales process.
We've talked before about the importance of this process, and I love how Allison breaks it down in two parts: intake then consultation. We discuss where to start training intake staff and handing off those responsibilities. Again, it comes down to process. Then once you get to the consultation, it's about understanding the underlying issue your client needs solving, and ultimately, how you'll deliver the results they need.
What I want you to walk away with is an understanding of how having a structured sales process leads to a better relationship with your clients. It helps set the expectations and norms, endears you to the client, lets you really understand their true needs, and sets you up as the expert.
Get Law Firm Mentor's free "Getting Prospects to Yes" series at https://www.lawfirmmentor.net/getting-prospects-to-yes.
Find Allison on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisoncwilliams and Twitter at https://twitter.com/law_firm_mentor.
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As a small attorney, you know how important Google is to your business. But you might not realize that your Google My Business profile - the info that pops up when someone googles or searches for your firm in Maps - might be your firm's real key differentiator between you and your competitors.
This week, I'm joined by Paul Cashman and Wes Lungwitz of Civille, a legal website, SEO and analytics firm with a specialty in Google My Business.
Paul and Wes detail not just the basics you need to consider when setting up your Google My Business profile, but how you need to maintain it.
Client reviews, Q&As, content posting, and how to make sure your firm is showing up first and foremost in Google and Maps searches.
This is super valuable info, and all things you can do easily and inexpensively as part of your regular digital and SEO work.
Find out more about Civille's services at https://getciville.com/ and find their GMB white paper here: https://getciville.com/law-firm-google-my-business-guidebook/
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What would happen if your firm's network, your email, your social accounts or your client files got hacked? How devastating could it be to your company? More importantly, what could you be doing now to protect your data and your business?
Our guest this week is Tom Lambotte, of Boba Guard Security, who joins us to discuss preventative measures lawyers should be taking to protect the client experience digitally.
Your digital security IS reputation management in today's world, and a breach affects not just your clients, but also your colleagues, your vendors, and even your competitors.
We discuss multi-layered approaches and straightforward, affordable strategies that firms can take across their digital footprint to make sure you're not one of the 29% of firms who experience a breach.
Find out more about Boba Guard at https://www.bobaguard.com/ and find Tom on LinkedIn at http://www.linkedin.com/in/tomlambotte and Twitter at https://twitter.com/legalmacit.
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Do you find yourself slogging through the days and weeks, buried in work? Are you frustrated at your current growth? Is your company culture simply some version of “Work hard. Bill hours. Make money?” Are you happy with that?
Our guest this week is a brilliant entrepreneur, David Heinemeier Hansson. David is the cofounder of Basecamp & HEY, creator of Ruby on Rails, author of “It Doesn’t Have To Be Crazy At Work”, race car driver, and the list goes on. But this conversation is really rooted in lessons from his book and his experience with Basecamp and work culture.
We tackle the mindset of modern firms that there just aren't enough hours in the week. You don't need more time. You don't need to work MORE. You need to work better and you need to have a mission. You need to understand why you're truly even doing this work, and at what point you're satisfied.
David walks us through his growth strategies and mindsets that led to his success, and lessons from many different companies. If growth is what you want, it doesn't need to happen all at once, or even at a constant rate.
Find David at https://dhh.dk/ or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/dhh
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We're on a brief break this week after the holiday, but we still want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. Check out John's take on setting your firm's standards.
You have standards and expectations for service in your personal life - shouldn't your firm have standards too? By formalizing these standards, you can ensure great service and communication, and make things easier for clients and within your firm. When we understand our own business models, our processes, and our desired outcomes, then we can create and implement these measurable standards - and they can help you day in, day out.
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Is every member of your staff on the same level when it comes to tech proficiency? Is it possible that you actually losing efficiency by employing tech?
This week, we're joined by Alicia Pierre of Legally Techie, who specializes in legal-focused tech training.
We want to get a lot out of our tech tools, but a lack of competence and a lack of training can lead to wasted time and wasted effort.
There are so many built-in features that firms simply overlook. And on the other hand, firms can also fall prey to duplicating tech. Alicia and I discuss how to avoid these pitfalls with tech training.
We discuss how to assess your firm's need for tech training, how to structure and start that training, templates and naming conventions for files, and even time management techniques for using your tech.
Ultimately, we shouldn't let the tail wag the dog where new tech is concerned, and we need to have our goals, our training, and our processes aligned before we employ tech in our workflows.
Find out more about Legally Techie at https://academy.legallytechie.com/ and find Alicia on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/aliciapierre/ and Twitter at https://www.twitter.com/legally_techie/
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Do you want to know how to make your job postings pop? How do you weed through a sea of applicants and land that dream employee? How do we make the hiring process better and easier for law firms?
Our guest this week is Molly McGrath of Hiring & Empowering Solutions. For nearly 25 years, she's coached and consulted law firms to get the best results from their hiring efforts.
Molly gives us a ridiculous number of tips and tricks to level up your hiring & interviewing game. Seriously, it might be a record for a Five Star Counsel episode. We cover how to approach the job posting itself, what information to put out there, how to set expectations on the interview process, and ultimately how to attract the ideal new employee for your firm.
Learn more about Hiring and Empowering at https://hiringandempowering.com/ and find Molly on Twitter at https://twitter.com/HireAndEmpower and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-hallmcgrath/
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We're on a brief break this week, but we want to give you something to think about (or revisit) in the mean time, especially if you missed it the first time around. Here's John's take on the importance of your firm's values, culture, and standards.
Client service should stem from an overarching goal or philosophy. Our firms' values, standards, and ideal culture are the starting points that guide our service. If those are wrong, or undefined, or ignored, then our service will follow. John walks us through the basic ideas, and explains how you can start defining and implementing these concepts in your firm.
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Has tech made traditional legal assistants and secretaries obsolete? Think your firm can slash costs AND improve productivity by letting that support staff go? Not so fast.
Law firms are laying off their support staff at alarming rates, thinking that automation is going to improve their service and efficiency. The big problem is, the automation infrastructure isn't really there yet.
My guest this week is Michelle Spencer, the Product Marketing Manager at NetDocuments, a leading document management tool. She's a huge believer in both the power of automation and the value of a great legal assistant.
Michelle and I discuss the evolving role of non-lawyers in the law firm. Now, if you've been listening to this show for any length of time, you know we frequently talk about humanizing our use of tech in regards to service.
In this episode, we focus on how traditional legal assistants can still function well with a high lawyers to assistant ratio. How? By both humanizing the tech and automating the human functions. There are still so many client communication and air traffic control tasks that are best suited for a real-life human assistant, and we'll explain why.
Learn more about NetDocuments at https://www.netdocuments.com/ and find Michelle on Twitter at https://twitter.com/txmischief and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/txmischief/
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Is your firm's efficiency still being judged by hours logged? Are your firm's flexibility policies still resulting in micromanagement and long hours? How can we get out of this paradigm of management by clock?
Our guest, Jody Thompson, is the founder of CultureRx and creator of the Results-Only Work Environment or ROWE - a management strategy anchored in 100% accountability and 100% autonomy for employees.
This is a mindshift in how we work with our employees and how to get the most out of them, where results are all that matter, and you're managing the work, not the people, and not their time.
Jody has a fantastic outlook on how we should measure our employee's success, and why hours worked aren't a badge of honor, especially if they aren't delivering on the company's goals.
We discuss ways to start to implement this mindset into your firm and get buy-in from employees by tying the employees to the outcome and purpose of the company.
Find more about ROWE at https://www.gorowe.com/ and Jody on Twitter at https://twitter.com/jodyrowe or LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jody-thompson-48a5827/
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How much do you earn every year from referrals? What if you could dramatically increase that number with some simple steps?
Our guest this week is Stacey Brown Randall, Referral Ninja Master, and creator of the Referrals Without Asking strategy. Her program is designed to generate referrals without asking, without manipulation or feeling inauthentic.
We discuss the finer points of this strategy, and how to make a consistent and easy process for us, our clients, and our referral sources. We define and differentiate terms like "referral" vs "word of mouth buzz" vs "introduction" vs "warm lead" - and why your response to each should be different.
Referral clients are vetted, easier to close, and have that transfer of trust from the referral source, so we should put extra effort into maintaining those referral relationships.
Find Stacey at https://www.staceybrownrandall.com/ or LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceybrandall
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Throughout the first year in our podcasting journey, we've learned a lot from our guests, and our core tenets have been honed and adjusted.
We thought we'd take this time to refresh our growing audience on the essentials, and talk about the core concepts of Five Star Counsel that have come into even clearer focus.
We'll discuss our show's goals, our definition of service, how to think about your product, and how to think of your service holistically across your business. We'll also discuss the spectrum of tech and humanity that should drive your service, and the pitfalls and red herrings you need to avoid.
Our service paradigms will to continue to evolve and grow, and we're thrilled to have you along for the ride. We're very excited about our upcoming guests and future episodes.
As always, email your thoughts and feedback to john@fivestarcounsel.com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
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Are you fearing a new future where big tech companies push you out of business? Where the Amazon of legal services makes you obsolete? My guest and I are here to tell you to put those fears to bed.
Conrad Saam is the founder of Mockingbird Marketing, an agency focused on marketing for the legal industry. He previously spent 6 years running marketing for Avvo, and he really gets the role big tech and automation can and will play in the legal services market.
Conrad joins us this week to discuss the future of big tech in the legal space. Since seeing brands like LegalZoom actively enter the legal practice in Arizona, there are some alarm bells going off and lawyers fearing the Amazonification of law, and being made redundant and overpriced.
We discuss why these fears are unfounded, and how big tech can actually expand the whole market for legal services. Automated services can make the whole pie bigger, instead of just stealing your slice. We see parallels in the medical and even accounting industries proving just this.
The sky isn't falling, but you may have to embrace new tech and really think about your differentiation tactics and unique value propositions.
Find Conrad at https://mockingbird.marketing/ or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/ConradSaam
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Are you ready to bring on new associates? Great! Now, how do you expect those new employees to know and understand your firm's processes, values, and work culture? You can't just throw them in the ocean and assume their law school knowledge will keep them afloat. That is old-school, 1984-law firm stuff, and we have to be better than that.
Modern onboarding practices are all about giving new employees direction, but also giving them agency, and letting them come to conclusions and propose solutions themselves. Yes, it's a little more work on your part, but your firm and the employee will be so well-served by it.
Defense attorney and friend of the show, Justie Nicol, is back to give us insight into her innovative onboarding processes, and how we can adapt these ideas into our own unique practices.
We'll discuss how to approach client service and firm-values training, and how to balance that with the more obvious operational and law-focused lessons. We'll end on a broader focus on your employee's long-term goals, and why we should let those guide the short-term goals we set together.
Find Justie at https://colawteam.com or on Twitter at https://twitter.com/justie4justice
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Is a client going to pay for a service they don't value? Even if they do, are they going to be happy about it?
Ed Kless is the Senior Director at Sage Accountants Solutions and host of the Soul of Enterprise podcast. Ed has fantastic takes on pricing and billing for professional services, and we had him on the show this week to discuss the concept of value pricing.
Put simply, value pricing is a method of setting your price not based on a multiple of your cost, but based on the client's perceived value of the work. What are they really willing to pay for it?
Attorneys can stop setting prices and just hoping a client will go for it. If we base our prices on the perceived value, we're much more likely to land those potential clients, and that they'll be happy to pay us.
Find Ed at https://www.edkless.com/ or on Twitter: https://twitter.com/edkless
Check out Ed's excellent podcast The Soul of Enterprise here: https://www.thesoulofenterprise.com/
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Lee Cockerell is a customer service icon, and I was thrilled to have him join our show. Lee served as the Executive Vice President of Operations for the Walt Disney World Resort for ten years. This means he ran 20 resort hotels with over 24,000 Guest rooms, 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, 5 golf courses, a shopping village & nighttime entertainment complex - pretty much every aspect of the resort you can imagine.
Now, Lee clearly isn't an attorney, and his focus has never been in the legal field, but so much of what he does is at the heart of what I preach here: a holistic take on service that involves your clients, your staff, and your executives.
We discuss how a little something extra can go a long way with your clients, but over-the-top gift giving is a wasteful distraction.
We talk about the mistaken idea that customer service is a department. It's not just there to answer problems. It's how we deliver, and limiting it to just problem resolution means that we're doing nothing when everything goes right.
Lee's got decades of experience, and an easygoing way of discussing and thinking about integrated service techniques. He understands the true value that service can bring a company and how happy customers make for easier business and bigger bottom lines. All of this can and should be translated to you, and your firm's overall approach to service.
Find Lee at https://www.leecockerell.com or on Twitter: https://twitter.com/leecockerell
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Does the term "Sales" make you shiver? Are lawyers, law firms, and legal services somehow above a lowly sales process?
Sales is all about need fulfillment, and your clients have needs! That you can fulfill! You're not selling them on something they don't need, you're helping them solve their problem, or move their needle on an important issue.
Steve Fretzin is here to explain why sales isn't, in fact, a four letter word, and why you don't need to play used car salesman. Steve runs Fretzin Inc., where he acts as a “business development therapist,” coaching and training lawyers in modern-day business development skills.
On this show, we talk all the time about how systems are key to keeping your firm running smoothly, and the sales, marketing, and biz dev side of your firm is no different. Steve delivers some tactics for approaching and setting up those systems, and some common missteps that he sees his lawyer clients making before they come to him.
Steve really wants you to email him your prospecting plan, which he'll review for free (listen around 19:00 in the show)! Email it to steve@fretzin.com
Find Steve at https://fretzin.com/ or https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/ and the Be That Lawyer podcast at https://fretzin.com/podcast-episodes/
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How much time could systems and processes save you every week? If one new program or app or template could save you 2 hours a week, would you use it?
Stacy Carlson is the Partner Manager at TextExpander, where she helps businesses consistent communicate smarter and faster across all their channels. She focuses on systems and processes, and is a self-proclaimed productivity nerd.
We really dive into our own philosophies and approaches for implementing and setting up new processes and productivity tech.
This requires a detailed look at how your business currently runs, from unlocking the office door, to answering the phones, to writing a deposition for a client, to asking for payment.
There are ways to drastically compress the time these tasks take, and it's more than just using TextExpander or any other app - it's about assessing your current systems, and implementing small, gradual changes to find that optimum workflow.
It's time to eliminate those repetitive, time-sucking tasks from your work life.
Stacy drops so much incredible time-saving knowledge on us - this is a can't-miss episode.
Learn more about TextExpander at https://textexpander.com/
Find Stacey at Stacy@SmileSoftware.com or on Twitter @Stacy_Carlson
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Do clients need to understand the process, terminology, and documents we're creating for them? Of course they do, and clients are much happier and less stressed when they understand what's going on. And, as a bonus, they appreciate us and the value what we bring to their situation.
But how do we make it easier to explain and translate the specific info they need to know?
Tiffany Christianson is a corporate law attorney who had clients who didn't always understand everything she did for them--getting clients educated to make better decisions wasn't always easy. So she created a tool for attorneys to explaining documents to clients by secured screen recordings--it's now available as DocuPlayer. Tiffany is an emerging expert on attorney-client communication, challenging attorneys to demystify the law for clients to make our advice more useful and the experience of practicing law more rewarding.
We discuss how we can explain the primary pieces of our work in plain English to enable client understanding. We don't have to give a full legal education to take out the mystery for our clients. They just need to understand the nuts and bolts of the narrow slice of law that applies to their situation.
This saves tons of time on both ends, clears up confusion for our clients, and leads to a happier, less-stressed client relationship.
Find Tiffany at https://docuplayer.com/
or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffanychristianson/
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Is your intake process getting your firm the results it needs? Is your intake process creating barriers for potential clients? Could it be refined or totally reworked?
This week, we're joined by Billie Tarascio, successful attorney and co-author of Tiger Tactics: Powerful Strategies for Winning Law Firms.
Billie is a master of the intake process, and gives us a really insightful breakdown of her own intake process, making things easier for the clients, the employees, and the owners.
We talk about how to work backwards from the total volume your firm needs to succeed, in order to create and perfect your process.
We also discuss running sales and specials on consultations, creating referral programs, optimizing your advertising spending, reframing your intake team as "advocates," and much more.
Billie even challenges me on my own approach to intake - it's a great chat full of actionable tips for your firm.
Find Billie at https://modernlawpractice.com/
or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billie-tarascio-62322bb/
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You don't have the time or luxury of slowly getting new employees up to speed. You owe it to yourself and your firm to get new hires trained efficiently.
This week, Matt Gjertsen joins us - he's a former U.S. Air Force instructor pilot and Manager of Training and Development for SpaceX who's founded Better Every Day Studios, focused on transforming how companies view learning and development.
We discuss the best ways to leverage your existing employees (and their existing institutional knowledge) to quickly and effectively train your new employees. Learning by osmosis doesn't work, and people are changing companies, jobs, and careers more often than ever. We cover:
Bringing top performers out of rotation to train the new people
How to impart knowledge to someone, and prioritize this training
Ways to Incentivize and certify top performers to be trainers
Learning in the flow of work - YouTube style
Finding the time to design your training systems
Focusing on the behaviors that produce certain results
Using the right environmental context for training
Stick around til the end for Matt's one big tip for training!
Find Matt at https://www.bettereverydaystudios.com/
or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewgjertsen/
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What kind of questions are you asking in your interviews? Do you know what are you even looking for?
This week, we're chatting with Davis Nguyen. Davis is a former consultant and founder of My Consulting Offer, where he coaches recent graduates and students on how to get through the interview and promotion process at management consulting firm McKinsey, where the competition for jobs is possibly more intense than at law firms.
Davis sheds light on how these prestigious firms, as well as companies like Google, approach hiring candidates, how they determine a good fit and appropriate skill sets, and how we as firm owners and hiring managers should think about our own hiring practices.
We discuss hard and soft skills, how consistency and structure is essential, and how case studies are super useful tools in an interview process.
Find Davis at https://www.myconsultingoffer.org/
or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davis2/
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Is your website god's gift to legal world? Perfect in every way? I'm gonna bet there's at least a little room for improvement, if not a lot. You could be leaving a lot of deals on the table, and passing on a ton of revenue by not optimizing your site for conversions. Our guest this week gives us some simple changes and things to consider when designing or redesigning our websites.
Quinn Zeda is the founder of Conversion Crimes, a service that does usability testing to help you see and evaluate your website from the client perspective, and how you can improve that communication, clarity, and ultimately, conversions.
We discuss the finer points of converting prospective clients into paying ones, and the specific challenges attorneys face, including:
Why clients bounce from your site
Why putting too much info on your site is a mistake
How clients connect with video
Even how you can adjust the length of your forms to work as lead qualification
Follow Quinn on Twitter: https://twitter.com/quinnzeda
or at https://conversioncrimes.com/
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How do we integrate new tech in a way that improves the experience for clients and makes it easier for you and your employees to serve your clients?
Colin Levy is a legal technologist and former in-house attorney who explains how not all technology, even legal-specific tech, is appropriate for every practice. Tech can be a distraction and a roadblock to service if it's a bad fit or poorly integrated. We all get the lure of shiny objects--so we need to avoid that.
Understanding your people and processes is the key to making the right choices about new technology. Also consider not just the monetary cost of a tool, but the time cost and learning curve involved in the setup and integration, which can be deceivingly costly and distracting to your practice.
There's so much to think about and absorb here, and it's more relevant than ever, as firms continue to innovate and employ technology post-pandemic.
Follow Colin on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Clevy_Law
or LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinslevy/
or at https://www.colinslevy.com/
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How can we delegate and distribute more work off our plate so that things get done faster and more consistently?
This week, we're talking with Sam Mollaei. He has started and currently runs seven virtual law firms, outsourcing work without the massive overhead.
He's also served over 7,000 legal clients gathering over 2,500 5-star Google reviews. Sam will be sharing his secrets for how he's built these practices and the things to watch out for.
One of the things that had confused me, but we get into more, is even though these firms are virtual and automated, it doesn't mean that everything is being done by robots. There's still plenty of space (and need) for us to deliver the services.
You'll want to stick around to the end because Sam will be sharing a lot of the secrets and tips he's used to build out these virtual law practices while keeping great service.
Follow Sam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sammollaei/
Automate Your Dream Virtual Law Firm here: https://legalfunnel.com
Join Legal Funnel Members Facebook Group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/legalfunnel
Subscribe to Sam Mollaei, Esq. on YouTube here: http://bit.ly/legalfunnel-youtube-subscribe
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Is your practice going to be replaced by robots? Should we run screaming away from the impending tech overlords?
This week, we're talking with Joshua Lenon, the Lawyer-in-Residence at Clio.
Earlier this year, Joshua reviewed dozens of new legal technology options across various categories, looking for the best of what's coming next. When we recorded, he hadn't published those reviews yet, so we didn't get into specifics in our interview, but he sheds light on the general trends of new legal tools, including integrated suites that create a seamless ecosystem that you'll be using in the near future.
But if you're listening to this, you know it's not just the technology that clients come for - we are more than the middleman that knows how to use a particular piece of tech.
We'll discuss the human element of applying legal tech and how we should should pick tools that enable us top better serve our clients, both the average clients and the exceptional ones.
Finally, we'll examine how to approach integrating new tech into your practice, and how to evaluate whether a product is a good fit or even necessary.
Follow Joshua on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshualenon/
Check out Josh's 31 Days of Legal Technology here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6oxyfLv-RI&list=PLuYxGiM4s431n2qNRgeVKZbZJmaj0NDgG
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When you get on an initial call with a new client, do you know what questions you must have answers to by the end of that call? How much time do you spend building rapport and understanding?
In this episode, we're talking with Brock Hendricks, and he'll share how the best practices of premium sales and service can help your legal team focus on the right clients. Now, Brock's background is about as far from the legal industry. He's the top Premium Salesperson for the Staples Center, home to the NBA's Los Angeles Lakers and Clippers, the WNBA's LA Sparks, and the NHL's Los Angeles Kings.
Brock explains what he calls the Premium Way--his method of structuring repeatable fundamentals of sales teamwork and rapport-building for your practice. We have a fun, wide-ranging talk about premium sales and all the parallels between Brock's high-dollar clientele and how attorneys should approach their sales process.
Follow Brock on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brock-hendricks-1588b7b1/
Check out the Hot Coffee, Cold Beer Podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hot-coffee-cold-beer/id1515312925
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Are you a firm owner with feelings of burnout? Are you an attorney with work-life boundary issues? It's so common and easy for us attorneys to let our mental health take a backseat to our work and our businesses.
Dr. Sherry Wallinghelps smart people do hard things. She is a clinical psychologist, speaker, podcaster, angel investor, entrepreneur, yoga teacher, and mental health advocate. Her company, ZenFounder, provides mental health-related resources to leaders and entrepreneurs as they navigate transition, loss, conflict, or any manner of complex human experience.
Sherry joins us to help navigate the mental pitfalls of legal entrepreneurship and practice. We discuss the subtle exhaustion, stress, and burnout that founder/owners experience, and the choices we make about boundaries and workload management.
There are ways to deal with the mental-health pain points of running your own firm and reset your approach in a healthy way, and Sherry delivers a lot of insight. These are incredibly important topics that affect every interaction of your business and certainly affect your client service. All that said, this conversation isn't a 30-minute slog - we keep it light and hopefully you connect with a lot of what we cover. I think you will.
Find Sherry at https://www.sherrywalling.com or on the ZenFounder podcast here: https://zenfounder.com/category/episodes/
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Does the idea of sitting before a state bar grievance panel sound like a fun time? About as much fun as a root canal or an IRS audit, right? But what can we do to help avoid grievances altogether, even from those high-maintenance clients?
Lisa Gonzalez is a defense attorney and Associate Judge who served as a member of the State Bar of Texas Grievance Panels.
We'll spend a few minutes going through the grievance process in Texas. Now, you may not practice in Texas like me, but these lessons - and these pitfalls - are universal. Our focus here is on how to keep attorneys out of these problems, and we do that by documenting your work and operationalizing systems, allowing you to consistently deliver for your clients.
And if you haven't listened to episode 6 with Meghan Zavieh, this is a good companion--we're going through the ethics process from the Bar's perspective this time.
Elevating your level of service and communication to your clients will very often be your biggest source of protection against grievances.
Find Lisa at https://www.legallylisa.com/lisa-gonzalez
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What could your business be like if you were no longer chained to the billable hour? Do you think your business model is even feasible without the billable hour? Does making the leap away from hourly billing sound terrifying? Stupid? Suicidal?
Jonathan Stark is a former software developer who is on a mission to rid the world of hourly billing. He wrote Hourly Billing Is Nuts, hosts of the Ditching Hourly podcast, and writes a daily newsletter on pricing for independent professionals.
We've talked about the importance of being an expert, and how it's less risky than being a generalist, and we expand on that this week, and how offering fixed prices positions you as the expert who's seen this before.
This helps you differentiate yourself and your work, and avoid a race to be the cheapest option to a client.
We'll also talk about the three important questions you need to every new potential clients to answer
Why this?
Why now?
Why me?
This only scratches the surface of our discussion - I'm a big fan of Jonathan's work and I really hope you stay with us til the end - this chat could literally change the way you run your business.
Take Jonathan's free six-day email bootcamp here: https://jonathanstark.com/vpb and get on his mailing list. I am!
Follow Jonathan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jonathanstark
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Great client service is the bedrock of great marketing. It's the core of the snowball of referrals, reviews, and happily returning clients.
Legal marketing specialist Jordan Ostroff of LegalEase Marketing and Jordan Law Fl joins us today to connect the dots between our marketing strategies and our client service standards. When we understand what our clients' actual goals are - moving the needle on a divorce, a recovery, or a lawsuit - we can combine that goal with our empathy and understanding to better market our services, with a focus on solutions.
We discuss how lawyers should approach using case examples and testimonials in marketing, and how your marketing can and will attract certain kinds of clients - it's up to you to craft the right brand to attract the right clients, and portray it consistently, both externally and internally.
Find Jordan on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-ostroff
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Are you thinking about building a course for clients, colleagues, or your own employees? Where do you start? How do you even approach what can be a huge undertaking?
Stephen Ladek of LMS Pulse joins us - he's an e-learning expert with loads of experience in the structural design of courses, testing of skills, and e-learning tech. He's got a unique take on e-learning, and has some really great advice on how lawyers can use different methods and platforms to achieve their goals, and some concrete ways to get your course off the ground.
We'll cover:
Ways to teach both hard skills and more nuanced soft skills
Limitations and benefits of online learning
Even how to outsource the content creation to your own students
Find Stephen at https://www.lmspulse.com/ or https://www.elearningsuccesssummit.com
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What if your head wasn't full of stressful thoughts all day? How would it change your work? How would it change your approach to clients, judges, employees, challenging situations?
This week we're joined by Olivia Vizachero, the Less Stressed Lawyer. She's here to discuss stress management, understanding what truly causes your stress, and helping us clear the negative emotions so we can make a plan of action in stressful situations. Ultimately, our own thoughts cause our emotions and stress, and with a little practice and guidance, we can control those thoughts and avoid things procrastination and overcome indecision.
I know this might take you out of your comfort zone, but it can be a really powerful tool to improve your practice in so many ways.
Sign up for sessions with Olivia (you want to do this) at https://www.lessstressedsessions.com/SIGNUP
Find Olivia at http://thelessstressedlawyer.com/ on LinkedIn
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Not all leads are created equal. What if you could use technology and data to qualify, predict, and automatically parse out the bad from the good from the great potential clients? With a combination of human sense, digital data, and a little bit of setup, you can have a powerful, time-saving system for scoring your leads.
Friend of the show and automation expert Paul Kortman returns to explain the concept of lead scoring, and how lawyers can use their existing client management systems and marketing platforms to create valuable analytics.
Find Paul at https://connex.digital or @namtroK on Twitter.
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Your service and your marketing are intertwined much more than you think. Your marketing tells clients what to expect, who you are, and how you operate. That expectation sets the stage for your actual service delivery. Gyi Tsakalakis of AttorneySync joins the show to explain how you can reduce client anxiety, friction, and uncertainty with your marketing - and gain new clients by doing so.
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Your marketing explains your unique qualifications and whether that's what the client needs
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High stress situations warrant clarity and respect, and your marketing efforts should show that
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Low stress and less friction can be your market differentiator!
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Explain your process clearly ahead of time
Follow Gyi on Lunch Hour Legal and On The Road here: https://legaltalknetwork.com/hosts/gyi-tsakalakis/ or @GyiTsakalakis on Twitter.
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You might think the billable hour is your only option. You might think that legal subscriptions will be an easy ticket to free, passive income. You might think your practice isn't even suited to subscriptions. Dan Lear of Gravity Legal joins us to challenge all those assumptions about subscriptions, and give you tips on how you can make them a reality in your practice.
We discuss:
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Why you're really not locked into the billable hour
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How subscriptions work with different law practices and focuses
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How subscriptions can change your entire client-attorney dynamic
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How to start approaching and actually building a subscription system in your own firm
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Tons of great inspiration for re-thinking your billing and work structures
Find Dan's subscription white paper here: https://www.gravity-legal.com/financiallylegal/the-gravity-legal-subscription-legal-services-white-paper
And follow Dan online at https://www.gravity-legal.com/financiallylegal/ or @rightbrainlaw on Twitter
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Great service and growth starts with your firm's team. The way you screen and attract applicants, and ultimately hire and train your team shapes the entire customer dynamic. Get some invaluable tips on the interviewing, hiring, and onboarding process for your employees - an even a few things to think about from the applicant side.
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Is your marketing plan a slot machine or a vending machine? Are you just tossing money at marketing efforts hoping to strike gold? Or do you know what results you'll get every time?
Chelsea Williams of Core Solutions Group brings knowledge from the accounting & tax world to discuss some really powerful ways to critique your marketing strategy, make incremental improvements, and track your data.
Stick around for some great intake chat (filters are good!) and KPI pitfalls to avoid.
Find Chelsea at https://www.yourcoresolution.com/ or on their Instagram @core_solutions_group
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Building out a legal-focus course sounds great, right? A couple hours of work, and the checks keep coming in! Well, not to burst your bubble, but there's a lot more to it than that. You first have to consider WHY and FOR WHOM you're even making it - then get into the details of making, marketing, and sustaining a course.
Trademark attorney Joey C. Vitale gives us A TON of invaluable secrets for creating, marketing, and launching a course that actually moves the needle for your clients and continues to sell. There's a whole tier of potential clients that you can help, and it dovetails so perfectly with great service.
Find Joey on Twitter or IG @joeycvitale or at https://www.joeycvitale.com
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Your to-do list is never-ending, and it's really easy to get down on yourself for not clearing it (or for not even making it in the first place). Priorities change, new work comes up, and life gets in the way, bogging you down.
Making a simple list of limited things you can and must do in your day can help ground you and achieve real, tangible progress with small tasks and lofty goals alike.
Jess Birken of Birken Law explains how she adapted this approach for herself, and how other firm owners and attorneys can employ her tactic to win their days. Checklists and automation FTW!
Find Jess on Twitter @JessBirken or at https://hackyourpractice.lawyer/
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As lawyers, we have so many self-imposed limits on our communication, especially about showing personality or humor. We fear the air of informality will make us look unprofessional or immature. But, clients don’t want to deal with a robot! Empathy and humor ASSUME trust, so why not use that to your advantage with your clients?
Copywriter and comedian Lianna Patch joins us to give us all the reasons we should be injecting humor and humanity into our communication - and finding the right balance for your practice.
Plus, learn some great tips on how to work with copywriters!
Find Lianna on Twitter @punchlinecopy, at https://punchlinecopy.com or https://snapcopy.co/
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Great client service requires making the client's process as easy and efficient as possible. We should aim to minimize the time it takes for prospective clients to go from first contact to face-to-face expertise from you. Our friend Maddy Martin of Smith AI joins us to discuss the ways to increase that "speed to expert," and why it benefits both you and the client.
Find Maddy on Twitter or LinkedIn.
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Hand-drafting your documents is rarely a great use of your time. You need to be automating this stuff - and you can do it without knowing a lick of code! Our guest Dorna Moini co-founded Documate to help attorneys automate their own most common documents with custom, logic-driven workflows, all without needing to code yourself. Making our service delivery more efficient AND more consistent is double-win.
Since then, Documate has also become a platform for legal practitioners to create and market their own automated legal products, without needing to be coders themselves. We had a great chat about the future of legal products (they're not your enemy) and all the benefits of automation in the legal field.
Find Dorna on Twitter, Dorna@documate.org or https://www.documate.org/
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Attorneys often fear specializing and drilling too deep with their focus, concerned that they'll miss opportunities and steady work.
But casting too wide a net carries just as much downside: you stretch too thin, taking on work you're not the best at, and probably don't love.
Finding a practice niche can create expert status, steady referral streams, perfectly suited clientele, and hopefully, more fulfilling work.
Our guest, Emily Albrecht, has developed a very unique niche, funeral law, and she shares her story and the myriad ways that a great niche can transform your career.
Find Emily on Twitter or Instagram @funerallawlady or at funerallawlady@gmail.com
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You can't deliver great service if you don't have time. And you won't have time if you're constantly juggling fifty tasks by yourself. Talitha Gray Kozlowski of LAWCLERK joins to talk about finding your highest & best use, making that your focus, and finding ways to remove the work that isn't.
With solo & small law firms, figuring out what you can and should get off your plate, especially without staff, isn't easy. Automation, delegation, and outsourcing can get a lot of your work 80% there (especially the repetitive, time-sucking minutia) - and that's a huge win for your productivity. And productivity means delivering a better technical product for your clients.
Find Talitha at https://www.lawclerk.legal/ or tgray@lawclerk.legal
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How often do you hear clients complain that they don't know where their matters stand or what's happening next? Keeping your clients informed is a crucial component of your service, and it saves us time and headaches too. Clients deserve to know where they are in their legal process, what to expect next, and to have clear instructions.
But how do we find the time to give our clients all this info? We can't custom draft it all by hand - we need structure at a minimum, and automation at best. Lawyer-Human® Colin Ley gives us the layout of his excellent client communication approach, email sequences, frequency, and more.
Find Colin on Instagram or at https://www.layroots.com/
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You have standards and expectations for service in your personal life - shouldn't your firm have standards too? By formalizing these standards, you can ensure great service and communication, and make things easier for clients and within your firm. When we understand our own business models, our processes, and our desired outcomes, then we can create and implement these measurable standards - and they can help you day in, day out.
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We talk a lot about meeting clients where they are. There are a lot of ways we can take that concept - sometimes we even mean that literally. Usually, it's just speaking plainly and finding ways to make things easier for your client. We're joined by Colorado defense attorney and systems whiz Justie Nicol to discuss her approach to prepping clients, how she uses Typeform to automate intake, and how you can use all these simple techniques to serve your clients, even if you're never setting foot in a courtroom.
Find Justie @justie4justice on Twitter and at https://colawteam.com/
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Client service should stem from an overarching goal or philosophy. Our firms' values, standards, and ideal culture are the starting points that guide our service. If those are wrong, or undefined, or ignored, then our service will follow. John walks us through the basic ideas, and explains how you can start defining and implementing these concepts in your firm.
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We all know we should have laser-focused goals, informed by razor-sharp relevant data and metrics. But here in the real world, tracking our business's growth and overall well-being can leave us with a confusing mess of well-intentioned KPIs, random data, and unmet goals, all scattered amongst our various programs and platforms. And that's if we're even trying.
Legal business coach Melissa Shanahan helps firms find their focus and create measurable, effective benchmarks. She joins us to discuss KPIs, tracking progress, finding the discipline needed to keep it all up (hint: delegate it), and how to keep it all from swamping your time.
These success metrics don't just help the bottom line - they create a better, more efficient business that can help clients better meet their goals.
Find Melissa at https://www.velocitywork.com/ and the Velocity Work Podcast.
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As attorneys, we're not always speaking our clients' language. A lot of what we say can go over their heads, even if we're trying to speak in lay terms. We ought to be meeting clients where they are, communication-wise, and employing empathy and compassion in our client service, particularly in criminal defense.
Our guest, criminal defense attorney Jennifer Longtin, shares some insightful lessons learned from dealing with clients with mental, physical, and psychiatric issues. The attention and care she uses to communicate with and empower clients that need extra attention should be the same standard we use for all clients. It's a powerful way to rethink our everyday interactions with the people we serve.
Stick around for bonus tidbits about data insight from case history, and even internal revenue reporting!
Find Jennifer at https://www.jlongtinlaw.com/ or on Instagram.
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Legal interns offer much more value than low-cost back-office labor. They can also be the future of your firm. Giving interns a well-rounded experience isn't just good for the student, but can create consistent client experiences and trustworthy associates that understand your firm's process and clientele. IP attorney Erik Pelton joins us to discuss his excellent approach to intern hiring and training. Stick around for some killer tips on the filtering & application process!
Find Erik on Twitter, LinkedIn or at https://www.erikpelton.com/, his podcast at https://www.erikpelton.live, and his book, Building a Bold Brand, here.
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It's common these days to hear that we should be "client-focused." While that's not bad per se, if we only focus on the client, we miss a huge part of what makes great service possible. We need to set up our firms to be a three way agreement between clients, owners, and staff. By focusing solely on clients, you're cutting off two legs of the tripod.
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We all generally know that our digital security is important But running a secure business is more than locks and passwords. Our clients expect confidentiality and our businesses rely on it.
Zach Eikenberry of Hook Security joins us to explain the different aspects of physical, psychological, and informational security, and tactics for shoring up your firm's security. One of the coolest takeaways was Zach's twist of using a hacker's mindset to motivate your clients to respond, sign documents, and keep their matters on track. Brilliant!
Reach Zach on LinkedIn or at zach@hooksecurity.co
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Great service starts within your own firm. By providing your staff with reliable guidance, time, and attention, you empower and encourage them to provide that same high level of service to your clients. Regular check-ins with staff can help ensure that work is getting done correctly and balls don't get dropped. Matt Ludt of Atticus Family Law joins us to share some incredibly insightful tips on the process of "rounding" - regular reviews that employees love - and why you should implement them now.
Find Matt at https://atticusfamilylaw.com or LinkedIn
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Great service requires more than just focusing on the end journey of your client. Yes, seeing your service delivery through the client's eyes is very useful, but it's not the end-all-be-all for analyzing your service and operationalizing efficiency. You must be thinking about every touchpoint along the way - people, places, process - and optimizing those as well. You have to think 'behind the scenes' about all the mechanisms that feed your overall service delivery.
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As a lawyer, good service requires delivering clear communication and effective documents to your clients. Writing technology can act as our assistant and our failsafe when drafting our writing. Ivy Grey joins us to discuss her experience at WordRake, and her wealth of knowledge about ways attorneys can improve their writing. We discuss loads of useful document and writing programs & platforms that can help save you time, ensure privacy, and most importantly, deliver clear and accurate documents to your clients.
Find Ivy on Twitter or LinkedIn
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Every firm has its own unique challenges, but this episode focuses on the three biggest choke points that we see across law firms. These three points, while broadly defined, are what prevent firms from growing and efficiently serving our clients. Our guest, John Grant, the Agile Attorney, pulling from lean methodology, helps us identify these bottlenecks, and how we can address these roadblocks to success in ways that works for our firms.
Find John Grant at https://www.agileattorney.com/, LinkedIn, and on the forthcoming Agile Attorney Podcast.
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We know that attorneys are respected (and paid) for having knowledge of the law. But as a lawyer, you have a defining choice to make: create your market value as either an exceptional technical expert or as an accessible relationship builder. Today, we focus on the former choice, and how to make sure folks know you're the expert.
Lawyer Forward's Mike Whelan joins us once again to unpack the various, often contradictory, ideas about being an expert that we as lawyers are constantly being told. We discuss where to draw your lines, where to focus your time and effort, the VORL (Value Over Replacement Lawyer) model, and ways to focus your expertise into products.
Find Mike on Twitter or LinkedIn
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Legal skills and rote knowledge aren't everything. To be a truly effective lawyer, you need a well-rounded set of traits and behaviors, and as we're evaluating staff to hire for our firms, we need to consider applicants more holistically. Jordan Couch of Palace Law joins us to discuss a 26-factor rubric he discovered via LSAC, and how he translated that into a checklist of behaviors every lawyer he hires should have.
Find Jordan on Twitter or LinkedIn, and Palace Law at www.palacelaw.com .
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We all know the power of technology to help us deliver our product, but creating a (mostly) automated legal tech product requires nuanced development and critical thinking about our clients' needs. Erin Levine of Levine Family Law and creator of Hello Divorce, discusses the process she went through creating her automated collaborative divorce platform. Now, we're not all going to make our own digital legal product, but we can learn a lot about our own processes from this chat - balancing tech and human elements, building trust, our role as experts, honing your leads, SEO, and the future of the legal landscape.
Find Erin on Facebook or LinkedIn, and Hello Divorce at hellodivorce.com.
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We small and solo law firm owners don't have the time, money, or bandwidth to try out and implement every shiny new idea that we think of, no matter how great they seem. Our guest Mike Whelan, of the Lawyer Forward Podcast, has developed the Legal Innovation Canvas as a way to chart out the likely effectiveness and success that any new iterative idea might deliver, and keep you from wasting precious resources. Listen in as he shares his excellent system and powerful innovation tips.
Get the free Ebook containing the Legal Innovation Canvas here: https://www.clio.com/newnormal
Find Mike on Twitter or LinkedIn
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It's time to reframe your management approach to incorporate great service to your employees. This pays so many dividends in the long run: team morale, work ethic, efficiency, and more. In turn, all of that flows down to your clients as well. John discusses ways to make your firm a place your EMPLOYEES rave about.
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As lawyers, we strive for perfection in our work - details are crucial to our practice - but in running a business, the perfect is often the enemy of the good. This is especially true with marketing our businesses, where experimentation and a willingness to try new things can really set you apart and deliver results. We're joined by Ryan McKeen of Connecticut Trial Firm and author of Tiger Tactics, to discuss his take on novel marketing efforts and give some great tips on getting social media traction.
Find Ryan on Facebook or LinkedIn
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Jack Newton and George Psiharis spend a lot of time thinking about the future of the legal profession – as CEO and COO of Clio, it drives what they do and directs their company goals. John spoke to them both on the heels of the recent Clio Cloud Conference about the future of the tech/service dynamic.
We discuss Clio’s approach to legal tech as a way to bolster firms’ ability to deliver great service – and recognizing service itself as a key differentiator in the marketplace.
Follow @jack_newton and @GeorgePsiharis on Twitter
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Catch John speaking LIVE at Law Firm Growth Summit 2021, and help future-proof your law firm! Go to https://www.lawfirmgrowthsummit.com/fivestarcounsel
It's hard to know where to start improving your business sometimes. This week, we'll build on our Four Stages of Business, and help you figure out where to focus your efforts based on what stage you're at. We'll also tackle how you need to tailor your actions for appropriate risk and ROI, with client service in mind.
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The lawyer mindset makes attorneys great at their jobs - questioning, pessimistic, risk-averse - but it can make for huge roadblocks to building a successful firm and innovative client service. Moshe Amsel of Profit With Law and The Law Firm Growth Summit joins to discuss this mindset and how we can reject it selectively to benefit our business.
Find Moshe on the Profit With Law Podcast
Catch John speaking at the 2021 Law Firm Growth Summit!
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Your firm's business is an evolving entity, progressing along a continuum. John explains the four stages of business, helps you determine where your firm sits on that continuum, and explains what that means from a service and growth perspective.
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Your intake process sets the stage for your entire client relationship, and can make or break your rapport, your trust, and your business together.
When it comes to getting a client to choose you over other firms, not all leads are equal, and you should have very different approaches for warm referrals vs. your marketing leads.
Seth Price is a master of both of these crucial client inflection points, and he gives John some invaluable tips on his process.
Find Seth at https://blusharkdigital.com/, seth@pricebenowitz.com, or his cell (!) 347-661-9999.
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In order to operationalize your firm's service delivery, we have to understand what really matters to clients. There's an important distinction - that your client's experience, though important, is only a subset of service, or how you deliver your physical and technical product. A holistic understanding of your service operations will make your business more efficient, more consistent, and more desirable to clients.
The legal market is shifting, but the legal industry is slow (or resistant) to change. But YOU, nimble, independent, fearless listener, you can be the change and enjoy the benefits of dropping hourly billing. Jared Correia of The Legal Toolkit Podcast and Red Cave Legal Consulting joins us to discuss. Behold, The Top 5 Alternatives to Standard Billing!
Find Jared at RedCaveLegal.com and subscribe to The Legal Toolkit Podcast.
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Ethical issues can arise from incongruent communication standards and expectations set between you and your client. Lawyers are keenly aware of their ethical duties, but how do these duties impact and reflect on client service? Megan Zavieh of Zavieh Law joins us to explore this interaction and many ways we can improve (and avoid bar complaints).
Find Megan online at www.ZaviehLaw.com or @ZaviehLaw on Twitter.
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Your product is the core of your firm. We need a deeper understand of what we're actually delivering clients, and what clients are paying for, before we can improve our service and our business. It's incredibly common for attorneys - even very successful ones - to have an incomplete, or even incorrect, view of their own product.
John walks us through the basic types of products and how attorneys need to perceive their own deliverables and value to clients.
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There are a litany of soul-crushing and time-stealing tasks that you're doing every day in your practice. These tasks are using valuable brain power and time that you should be putting towards your clients and growing your business.
Chances are, with a tiny bit of time and basic-level skills, you can automate those digital tasks using Zapier, Airtable, or other widely available services. Let Paul Kortman of Connex Digital introduce some of these and start you down the right path.
Find Paul on Twitter or paul@connex.digital
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If you want to effectively grow, scale, and improve your business effectively, you need to understand where your business lies in the growth continuum from scrappy startup to mature, thriving company.
Adam Anderson of Hook Security has an amazing take on this spectrum, broken into The Four Stages of Business. We share that today, so you can plug your own firm in, make the right growth moves, and determine the next profit levers to pull.
Find Adam on YouTube or at www.AdamAndersonCEO.com
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Service, as a concept, takes many forms; some obvious, some less so. We were so happy to have Maddy Martin of Smith AI on the show to share the best service-driven tactics she's seen from her time in the legal marketing world.
We cover, among many other things:
1) How and why to qualify your potential clients (hint: it'll save both sides a lot of time and money).
2) The benefit of clearing that fancy legalese out of your communications with clients.
3) How to outsource the work that is devouring your time. You don't have to (and shouldn't) do it all alone!
Find Maddy on Twitter or LinkedIn.
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Client service can be your practice's best market differentiator, bringing in more clients, better clients, and clients who are excited to refer you. In order to start improving, we have to have a baseline understanding of service and what it means in today's legal landscape. John walks us through a working definition, the three types of products businesses offer, and how we can correctly think about service in the legal field.
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Welcome to the Five Star Counsel Podcast! We're excited to help you fine-tune and level up your client service. Our host John Strohmeyer gives us the show's main focus and a brief preview of what's to come on our podcast.
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