Road to Wine Expert: Recent Episodes
Brian McCann
Follow host Brian McCann as he interviews people whose wine experiences dramatically changed their lives. You'll learn how better understanding of wine can make an impact in your own life.
Rich Frank, founder of Frank Family Vineyards, shares his story of how wine changed his life. Rich's first tastes of great wine while traveling the world led him to Napa where he's faced multiple challenges including starting out, fires and selling wine during pandemic.
Remember to support your favorite wine producers, and buy and drink great wines made by great people.
This episode was edited by the talented James Gralian — jamesgralian.com
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This episode is not a normal Road To Wine Expert episode. It’s an episode where I talk about my thoughts and feelings related to some heavy topics. It’s probably not best to listen to this one with the kids.
Also, the topics covered here may be sensitive to certain listeners. I’ve titled the episode and listed details in the episode notes as such. But I want to be fair to everyone, and make it clear that you do not have to listen to this involuntarily.
If you’re unsure, it’s probably best to skip this episode and stick to the regular wine content when we return.
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When I read one of the recent headlines from the New York Times:
The Wine World’s Most Elite Circle Has a Sexual Harassment Problem
My immediate response was which one.
I couldn’t even pinpoint who they were talking about.
The world of wine has a sexual harassment problem. Alcohol and sexual assault are so closely tied together.
We have to talk about the bigger interconnected issues of our industry like sexual harassment, sexual assault, gender equality, racism and sobriety.
I want to start by saying that I’m incredibly proud of the brave women in this story for coming forward and the journalism of Julia Moskin and the team at the New York Times for making this happen.
If you are part of this story and you’re listening, know that before this you were one of my wine heroes and your journey as it continues to evolve will continue to inspire me. So thank you.
But, circling back to this headline. Let’s not kid ourselves. It’s not just the Court of Master Sommeliers.
This ugly problem goes far deeper. We can’t brush it off as something only affecting a greatly outnumbered group of women inside a tiny circle of people employed in the wine industry.
This is something bigger.
I recently reread Bianca Bosker’s Cork Dork. I was listening to the audiobook while rucking, which is walking and carrying a weight on your back. I was huffing and puffing on a cold Autumn day, trying to stay warm. The following passage stopped me dead in my tracks.
“I never finished the beer. By then, it was near midnight, and aside from a girl who had come with her boyfriend, I was the only woman left. The combination of the late hour plus the alcohol plus the gender ratio was moving in a predictable direction. I was learning that while the job does have its perks, for women, who are still in the minority, it can come with less pleasant side effects. Already a judge had volunteered to let me spend the night in his “big” hotel room. (I hadn’t asked.) And it was also getting increasingly difficult to ignore one of the sommeliers, who far from sober, had escalated from awkward attempts at flirting to openly groping me. So I went home. To my regular-sized hotel room.”
If this article and this passage don’t make you angry, unsubscribe.
I feel like we have this expectation that men can behave badly because they’ve had too much to drink. Which is ridiculous. This isn’t Mad Men or Animal House, this is today. It’s 2020.
And boys can no longer be boys. And frankly, men all over need to be doing a better job.
As someone who has worked in retail and other parts of the industry, this behavior is not limited to men with fancy pins on their lapels.
My friends have shared their horror stories from working in restaurants, wineries, hospitality and beyond. Even going out with your friends to a bar, you shouldn’t have to worry about protecting yourself.
When you see an intoxicated man at a tasting making a fool of himself, and you have to step in. Cut him off, throw him out, it can’t be tolerated. Don’t tell me it’s a bar or it’s a wine tasting. That’s not an excuse, and it’s definitely not an invitation.
We have to do a better job of identifying this behavior and stopping it immediately. Being a poor excuse for a human being, shouldn’t afford you an opportunity to get a warning, have that get reviewed by committee, get kicked around and be undecided. It has to stop now. It must stop now.
As someone who is trying to help people understand and navigate wine education, I can no longer endorse or support the Court of Master Sommeliers.
I’m going to amend my materials.
I’m going to continue to highlight and amplify other forms of wine education.
There are so many avenues out there, so many more welcoming and inclusive communities.
And that’s what I hope to build here on the Road to Wine Expert Podcast.
I thank you all for listening. I look forward to the continued dialog about this and other big issues. I truly believe that much of the spirit of the wine industry is welcoming and I know that spirit will allow us to create a better version of this industry in the future.
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/// About this episode
October 9, 2020 marks the four year anniversary from my first wine education course. James Cluer's wine education company, Fine Vintage, was the program provider for WSET Level 1 which I took in Chicago. The program would be a catalyst for my own wine journey, so I thought it would be fitting to republish my conversation with James as it highlights what it takes to create a wine education company from scratch and what it truly means to be a "wine expert."
Apologies for the potato quality of this recording. If you'd prefer listening to reading, click the show notes link above.
/// About the Road To Wine Expert
The Road to Wine Expert documents the career paths of people in the wine world. We'll uncover the success stories, the pitfalls and the shortcuts to learning wine fast. I like to say, "If you drink wine, you are my friend." So grab a glass, and let's dive in.
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As I was getting ready to release this episode, Napa and Sonoma, along with the rest of California were hit by more fires. Support your favorite winemakers—buy and drink California wine. If you'd like to support those affected by California wildfires, you can find causes to donate to here: https://www.calfund.org/norcal-wildfire-relief/
In this episode, I answer some of the most common questions for planning your first trip to Napa and Sonoma. Both places had a huge impact on my wine journey, and I dive deep into how both places got me unstuck.
- Getting Unstuck in Napa and Sonoma - 2:47
- What's the best way to travel to Napa or Sonoma? - 9:40
- When should you go to Napa or Sonoma? - 14:06
- Which is better: Napa or Sonoma? - 15:41
- Where should you stay when you visit Napa or Sonoma? - 19:45
- What wineries should you visit in Napa or Sonoma? - 22:29
- What's the one piece of advice you'd give to anyone traveling to Napa or Sonoma? - 33:07
For complete transcription and show notes of this episode visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/napa-sonoma-plan-trip/
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Living with the Road to Wine Expert Summit and now podcast is like living with a time capsule.
Or maybe more appropriately a high school yearbook.
Every so often, I can go back to listen to the knowledge my guests shared and see where I was in my journey.
For those new to the podcast, these interviews were originally recorded as part of the Road To Wine Expert Summit: a 10 Day virtual conference with 34 interviews from varying voices in the world of wine and spirits.
The Summit was a hit list of my heroes and influences who I reached out to in order to better understand their wine journey.
There was no one more influential than Cal Fussman.
Cal Fussman is one of my all-time favorite guests of Tim’s podcast. And if you haven’t listened to it already, you can find it on Tim Ferriss's blog here.
Cal’s interview with Tim pointed me to Cal’s article Cocktails Before the Collapse.
It always gives me the chills and it brings me to tears every time I read it.
It was a piece that inspired me to go on a wine journey. To say, screw it all. And, I actually did.
I quit my job to freelance. Then stumbled into a part-time job in a wine shop. I started taking wine classes, and then I landed on the idea to do a summit.
So this interview is several years old. It was originally recorded on June 7, 2017.
For most of my interviews, I started with the question of “what was the transformative experience that got you into wine?”
But in this interview, Cal jumped right in and answered some of my pre-interview questions.
For those of you who have read the article and listened to the original interview, Cal compares wine with music.
So, I had asked Cal in the pre-interview, “What wine pairs well The Rolling Stones' Satisfaction and Hanson’s Mmm Bop?”
Cal came out firing with his response.
So, here for the first time, is my interview with Cal Fussman completely unedited.
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Nikki and Erica created Yes Way Rosé, a lifestyle brand that has skyrocketed with success. Looking at their journey in the past two years, that even seems like a bit of an understatement. Yes Way Rosé now has wine of the same name that can be found virtually everywhere. They are living proof that "wine experts" come from all walks of life.
One of my favorite parts of their story is that they weren't looking to create wine, but rather interested sharing wine and having fun.
Success is a combination of factors including great ideas, luck, timing and execution. For Nikki and Erica, everything came together in the perfect pink-colored storm.
To learn more about Nikki and Erica, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/yes-way-rose/
GIVEAWAY - I'm giving away $1000 worth of wine books and resources. To enter and for complete contest rules, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/1000/
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Steve De Long is a great guide to have by your side in the wine world, because after all, it can be scary, overwhelming and complicated place.
If you're on any journey, it's important to know where you are going and have a map to help you stay the course. Steve can help you do exactly that. He makes some of the finest wine maps in the industry today.
Funny thing though, I didn't meet Steve because of his wine maps initially. I met him because of his Wine Tasting Notebook. Before I learned about the Systematic Approach to Tasting Wine from WSET and Deductive Tasting from the Court of Master Sommeliers, I used Steve's book to track my first tasting notes in the wine world.
Beyond maps and tasting notebooks, Steve is also the creator of the Wine Grape Varietal Table, which is like a Periodic Table of wine.
So, if you're wondering how your passion or crazy idea might intersect with the wine world, you need to listen to Steve's interview.
To learn more about Steve, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/steve-de-long/
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Randy Smith is better known as The Wine Writer across the internet. He focuses his blog on winemaker, wineries and other people based in the Central Coast.
Beyond telling great stories about the wine industry, Randy does something admirable which is niche down into a very specific region. With the wine world being so large, I think many people struggle with where to begin. This is something I talked about with Chappy Cottrell during on our podcast episode.
If you're like Randy, then choosing a region to discover is going to help you understand wine much better than picking bottles at random. The next time you taste a wine you like, I'd recommend that you ask yourself questions about what you're drinking.
- Where is this wine from?
- Who made this wine?
- Have I had other wines similar to this one?
These questions will lead you down exciting avenues, and paying a bit more attention is going to serve you in the long run.
If you're starting out, listen to the wines that speak to you.
Then, dig in.
Discover what makes wines you love special and then learn as much as you possibly can about each one. You'll thank yourself later because you'll begin to establish a basis for knowledge while pursing something that is making you happy (win-win).
If you're ready to start a wine blog or wine-related project, you'll want to listen to Randy's interview below.
To learn more about Randy Smith, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/randy-smith/
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George Taber is the author of the Judgement of Paris, his extended version of the three paragraph article in TIME Magazine. As the only reporter to cover the 1976 Paris tasting, George's reporting of the event sent shockwaves throughout the wine world. In this epic head-to-head battle, Napa Valley Chardonnay and Cabernet went up against White Burgundy and Red Bordeaux. California came out on top. The rest, as they say, was history.
I was fortunate enough to sit down with George two years ago on the 41st anniversary of the Paris tasting.
To learn more about George, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/george-taber/
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Richard Hemming is a fantastic wine writer. He is also a pretty fantastic wine musician. What is a wine musician? I'm glad you asked.
After going down the Richard Hemming rabbit hole, you'll find yourself listening to his fabulous Wine Grape Variety Song. He wrote that while studying for his MW, and it clearly paid off.
Richard is now a Master of Wine, he write for Jancis Robinson and has a personal blog that's worth following if you enjoy his sensibility, charm and humor like I do.
A great person, a great story, a great time. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Richard.
To learn more about Richard, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/richard-hemming/
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Thomas Monroe is more than just a mustache (@winestache on Instagram). He is the co-owner, co-winemaking and co-founder of Division Wine Making Company based in Portland, Oregon.
Thomas went from the "financial cube game" to winemaker. It's a journey that we all envy, especially because he makes delicious wines.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/thomas-monroe/
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Richard Betts has a laundry list of achievements and accolades. He makes wine: An Approach to Relaxation and My Essential Wine. He makes spirits: Sombra Mescal and Astral Tequila. He passed the MS Exam on his first attempt, the ninth ever to do so.
My favorite project Richard has ever done is the Scratch and Sniff Guide to Wine. This book was cornerstone to my wine education, and, I dare say, it got me my first wine job. It's simple, elegant and genius.
And if you love books, help us get to 1,000 downloads for the first season of Road to Wine Expert. As soon as we cross into 4 digits, I'm giving away $1,000 worth of my favorite wine books and resources.
How can you help? Share your favorite episode with someone you know will love it!
To learn more about Richard Betts, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/richard-betts/
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If you're passionate about cocktails, wine and booze in general, it's impossible not to get inspired by Elliott Clark. His Instagram feed is a cultivation of deliciously handcrafted cocktails made in...you guessed it...his apartment.
Even though his drinks look beautiful and his photos are stunning, it's his unpretentious attitude and belief that anyone can make better cocktails at home that aid Elliott in inspiring others.
Elliott Clark has built an amazing following as The Apartment Bartender, @apartment_bartender, and in the two years since we spoke his following has continue to grow. If you know Elliott or not, you're going to enjoy this interview.
It's his passion and story that will surely inspire you to do more.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/elliott-clark/
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Ray Fister is not an amateur. Ray has over 40 years experience as an audio engineer and got into the podcast game before it was cool, trendy and barely a sensation. There's something about that kind of wisdom.
That's what I remember most about my interview with Ray.
His advice is like that of an old friend. It's not cutesy, but a reality check that slaps you in the face.
I had such a great time talking to Ray. In fact, he gave me over an hour of his time, so there is about 20 to 30 minutes that didn’t make the final cut. But that said, I had to take Ray’s advice and be ruthless as an editor.
Ray's interview is one I continued to revisit, and I hope you do the same.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/ray-fister/
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Elizabeth Schneider is a hero of mine and likely yours too! Despite my never-ending quest to become a "wine expert," I started out as a normal person who loved wine.
If you happen to fall in that camp, then you probably already know about Elizabeth's hit podcast, the aptly named, Wine for Normal People.
Elizabeth is a champion of making wine easy to understand and accessible to everyone. While there's dozens of episodes I love, my all-time favorite is her episode on Champagne. It's a great example of what she does best: provide listeners with great insight into the region so they can have the comfort and knowledge to explore it. And after all, we should all be drinking more Champagne.
To learn more about Elizabeth, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/elizabeth-schneider/
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Wanda Mann is the embodiment of all things wine should be: fun, happy, engaging, laid back, conversational and loved by my Mom. I have to laugh as I say that last one, but it's a fun little story.
As you might expect, my Mom was a huge fan of the Road to Wine Expert Summit. Having not heard of Wanda prior to her interview, she said that Wanda was someone she wanted to have a glass with because she her personality and enthusiasm was so infectious.
As a result, I've played telephone between them both, and it sounds like they will be getting together soon in New York, Chicago or Spain. I'm jealous.
Hopefully, Wanda can become your friend too. Wanda, I apologize if I inundate your social calendar.
To learn more about Wanda and read her Q&A, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/wanda-mann/
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If you listened to my episode of the podcast, you have a general idea of how I came to meet James Cluer. James is a Master of Wine and the founder of Fine Vintage, which served as the Approved Program Provider for my WSET Level 1 class.
WSET Level 1 served as a huge boost to my confidence in the early days of my wine career. While James wasn't the instructor, his team members made for a great day that would prove pivotal in my wine career. It was this early experience that would lead me to take WSET 2 and WSET 3.
I was fortunate enough to spend some time with James, and I was floored when he made the remarks that opened this episode. If a Master of Wine knows a fraction of a percentage, what chance do "regular folk" have?
Well, James lets us know that there are plenty of ways to get wine educated and become an expert.
Before I turn it over to James, one quick note. I had some technical difficulties when recording this interview, so the audio quality is low. That said, the content is great. If you can bear with it for the first moments, you'll be glad you stuck around for the entire interview.
To learn more and view the transcript, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/james-cluer/
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We tackle wine education in this episode. If you're new to the Road to Wine Expert, this is going to be a little bit different. Instead of hearing from one individual, we are going to hear clips from several interviews. Our guests have diverse backgrounds have a number of different certifications. Together, we combine their thoughts and feelings to answer some of the questions surrounding wine education and certification.
You'll hear from Elizabeth Schneider, Richard Hemming, Wanda Mann, James Cluer, Hillary Zio and Richard Betts.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/wine-education/
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Welcome back to Road to Wine Expert.
This episode is going to a little different. First, let me introduce myself. I am Talia Goodman, the Road to Wine Expert Podcast Manager. I work alongside Brian to deliver you fresh wine content each week. For this episode, I got to flip the script and ask Brian questions about his journey to becoming the wine expert he is.
From working at Vin Chicago to completing the first three levels of the WSET, Brian worked his way through the wine industry and has a boatload of knowledge to prove it. Tune in to hear how Brian left teaching and a steady job behind to follow his passion for wine.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/brian-mccann/
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Bianca Bosker and her book, Cork Dork, serve as this wonderful bridge between people inside and outside the wine community.
Everywhere I go, I run into people who rave about it. If I tell a stranger that I work in the wine industry, one of their first questions is, "Have you read Cork Dork?"
I'm so grateful to Bianca because her book came out around the same time that I was working on the Road to Wine Expert Summit and my next move in the wine world.
Bianca is insightful, bright and disarming. I had the most fun interviewing and talking to her. So if you've read the book, you'll love this interview. And if you love this interview, you'll love Cork Dork.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/bianca-bosker/
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Chappy Cottrell is the man behind the mic at Cru Podcast. Listening to Chappy's interviews was a source of inspiration for The Road to Wine Expert Summit. After all, here was someone seeking out wine stories of industry folk.
Chappy Cottrell is someone who I got to meet in real life when I made my first trip to Sonoma, California in July 2018. We got coffee, shared some laughs and some vino. An all around great time.
I'm thrilled to see his continued success with his podcast and his wine career.
But let's take a step back before we go forward. To hear how Chappy started in the wine industry, listen to his podcast episode.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/chappy-cottrell/
The following songs were used in this episode:
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Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/jFMCyqKF-EE
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Hillary Zio doesn’t just have an Instagram account, @hillaryzio, that leaves you inspired and envious. She is a wine educator and consultant.
Her book, The Unfiltered Guide to Working in Wine, is a roadmap that outlines her career path and documents the ins and outs of different jobs in the wine industry.
Upon reading, I decided to double up and take the WSET Level 2 and the Introductory Sommelier Course and Exam at the same time. I registered and then passed both in 6 weeks.
She’s single-handily helped me jumpstart my wine career. So, thank you, Hillary.
Let's turn it over to Hillary Zio and learn about the twists and turns in her wine journey.
To learn more, visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/hillary-zio/
The following songs were used in this episode:
Funky Souls by Amarià
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Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/Funky-Souls
Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/jFMCyqKF-EE
chill. by sakura Hz
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You might know Yannick Benjamin from his years of stellar service in the New York restaurant scene. Or maybe, you know him from the TV series Uncorked. Perhaps, you have been to one of his amazing wine events in support of his non-proft, Wheeling Forward.
Yannick Benjamin is a master of the art of the hustle. He’s an inspiring figure in the wine world, and every time I talk to him I feel blessed and motivated.
I’ll let Yannick take over to tell his story and hopefully leave you inspired too.
To learn more visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/yannick-benjamin/
The following songs were used in this episode:
Funky Souls by Amarià
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Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/Funky-Souls
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I'm continually impressed by Chel Petras and the wine knowledge she's gained in the past two years.
One of the most rewarding parts of looking back on these interviews is to witnessing the continued growth of many of the speakers from the summit.
When I listen back to this interview compared to my recent conversations, Chel seems like a different person. And I mean that in the most positive sense.
Her maturation as a wine personality is due in large part to her dedication to wine education. So much so, that WSET made her an ambassador and she's sharing her studying on Instagram. You can follow along and take her quizzes by checking out @chelloveswine.
She's due to take the test in August so please wish her good luck.
So, let's rewind to connect with Chel and discover how she got started.
To learn more visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/chel-petras/
The following songs were used in this episode:
Funky Souls by Amarià
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Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/Funky-Souls
Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/jFMCyqKF-EE
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I first encountered Cal Fussman on The Tim Ferriss Show. In his chat with Tim, Cal briefly talked about his wine experience for his column in Esquire Magazine. Exploring those show notes, I read Cocktails Before the Collapse, the article in which Cal writes about his time as Sommelier at Windows on the World.
That piece is cornerstone to my leaving the corporate 9-to-5 in order to chase this crazy wine dream. Some might be wondering, “A magazine article changed your life?” It certainly did.
When I created the Road to Wine Expert over two years ago, it was with the hope that I might be able to do the same for someone as Cal had done for me.
Cal is the host of an amazing podcast, Big Questions. You can listen to Cal as he uncovers the heart, head, and soul of his guests in thoughtful, deep and entertaining conversations.
To learn more visit: https://roadtowineexpert.com/cal-fussman/
The following songs were used in this episode:
Funky Souls by Amarià
https://soundcloud.com/amariamusique
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Free Download / Stream: http://bit.ly/Funky-Souls
Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/jFMCyqKF-EE
chill. by sakura Hz
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Music promoted by Audio Library https://youtu.be/pF2tXC1pXNo