Two Sides of the Spectrum: Recent Episodes
Meg Proctor
A place where we explore research, amplify autistic voices, and change the way we think about autism in life and in professional therapy practice. Visit learnplaythrive.com/podcast/
Here's what we know: assisted methods to teaching typing have been highly controversial in the field of speech-language pathology and simultaneously have been passionately defended by many non-speaking Autistics. In a recent paper, researcher Vikram Jaswal, along with a team including Dr. Kristie Patten, Dr. Barry Prizant, and several others, argued that we need more research on assisted communication methods so that we can get clearer answers. On the podcast today, Dr. Jaswal and Italk about what all of this means, why it has been so controversial, and what steps might help us understand the potential - and the limitations - of assisted communication methods.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Ever wondered how to apply Dr. Ross Green's model of Collaborative & Proactive Solutions to your work with PDA clients? Today's guest, AuDHD mental health therapist Stacey Curnow, is writing a book about it with Dr. Green's collaboration and oversight. In today's episode, we talk about what exactly collaboration looks like in practice with PDA clients. We also dive into supporting parents, teaching daily living skills, supporting PDAers with aggressive behaviors, PDA kids in burnout, and so much more.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
The folks at PDA North America recently surveyed over 2,000 families about PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance, or the Pervasive Drive for Autonomy). What they learned has major implications for your clinical practice. In today’s episode, you'll hear from Diane Gould, Ruth Hevelone, and Michele Kleinmann. We talk about what they learned from their PDA Experiences survey, as well as the practices that are supportive for PDAers. We talk about respect, partnership, flexibility, authenticity, congruency, and more. We also address in depth that question that so many of us get when we are accommodating our Autistic clients: "What about the real world?"
If you support PDA-ers, after you listen to this conversation, make sure to also check out our Patreon where we have providers talking in-depth about how they support PDA-ers in the context of everyday SLP, OT, mental health practice. They go into how to move through rupture and repair when they get it wrong, some of our guests talk about how to support PDA-ers in burnout, how to bring autonomy into everything including regulation, and more. It's just $7 for over 30-hours of content and you can find it at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Your support on Patreon helps us cover the cost of this podcast and keep it going.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
When it comes to helping neurodivergent folks find playful, engaging ways to do the things they need to do, ADHD content creator Dani Donoval is the most creative person I’ve ever met. By the end of this episode, you’ll be grabbing a 20-sided die and turning your neurodivergent client into their own Dungeons and Dragons character, springboarding them out of "stuck" and into action.
On this podcast, we know that our clients’ worthiness has never and will never be tied to our ability to do more and produce more. And at the same time, we know that many people struggle to do the things they have to do. Dani has broken the barriers down into five subcategories: stuck, overwhelmed, unmotivated, disorganized, and discouraged.
In this episode, she helps us work through what the different types of barriers look like, and we dive into what specific strategies can help.
Dani Donovan is an ADHD comic artist and the author of The Anti-Planner.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This episode is a deep and nuanced exploration into the seemingly competing needs of being Autistic and being ADHD. We call these folks AuDHD-ers, and they're often faced with both the need for routines that comes with being Autistic and the craving for novelty that comes with ADHD. In this episode, AuDHD psychotherapist, Dr. Bowen Marshall, helps us explore all of the complexities around AuDHD, including how ADHD and autism can be complementary and how that may change when one condition is medicated. We talk about what's tricky and what helps, and we look in every corner of this to explore the complexities of this topic, like dopamine, executive function, routines, estrogen, testosterone, gender identity, race, and more.
Dr. Bowen Marshall, PhD is a licensed psychotherapist, bestselling author, and consultant specializing in ADHD, Autism, relationships, and Complex-PTSD.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
{{Two Sides of the Spectrum is now Born to Be Free!}} This episode is a sweeping overview of the co-occurring conditions that Autistic people often experience, including OCD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, PDA, and more. Autistic Licensed Psychological Practitioner Matt Lowry helps us take a topic that can feel huge and overwhelming and reduce it to a few core themes that make affirming practice feel clear, grounded, and simple, even when we are supporting clients with more complex profiles.
Matt Lowry lives and practices in Kentucky, where he specializes in autism and ADHD evaluations, and Autistic-centered therapy. He is the proud parent of an Autistic child and works to promote an understanding of autism and the Autistic lifestyle.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
We have a new podcast name! Keep your eyes out for our first episode of Born to Be Free: Supporting Your Neurodivergent Clients to Learn, Play, and Thrive. The podcast is relaunching with an emphasis on all of the complexities our Autistic clients experience, and how we can support them in affirming ways. We're starting off with a focus on Autistic people who also have OCD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, multiple disabilities, motor difficulties, PDA, twice exceptionality, and more. Don't miss our first episode of Born to Be Free where we will talk about co-occurring conditions for Autistic people with Autistic LPP Matt Lowry, coming next week!
In the meantime, get more in-depth episodes about what affirming practices look like in action at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Or join an in-person or livestreamed training at learnplaythrive.com/trainings.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This episode dives into the specific needs of AuDHD-ers – that’s kids who are Autistic and have ADHD - tying in executive functioning, social-emotional well-being, and so much more. Vanessa’s take is detailed, creative, and deeply practical. You’re going to want to take notes! Vanessa Castañeda Gill is an AuDHDer and the cofounder and CEO of Social Cipher, where she and her team create social-emotional learning video games and curriculum for neurodivergent youth.
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum and recorded Q&As with our guests? Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
"Because therapy should feel like a collaboration and becoming, not a rehearsal and being less yourself in order to survive." - Chenai Mupotsa-Russell
In this short episode, you get a sneak peek into the audio from one of our most poetic and transformative summit talks. Our continuing education summit is now $100 off and available on-demand at learnplaythrive.com/summit
Selected Transcript:
"Normal is not a neutral baseline. It is a construct, a fiction, a colonizing force. Normativities function to flatten difference, discipline the body, decide who gets to be seen as competent, coherent, and worthy. So, when we center neurodivergent and gender diverse lives, we're not offering inclusion into a category of 'normal', we are refusing the category altogether. Divergence in whatever form is not a problem to solve. It is a truth. They are the most natural, beautiful, diverse, amazing ways of being rooted in sensation, relationship, rhythm, self-determination, expression. The problem has never been the child, the adult, the human. It's in the systems that punish difference in the name of order.
And so, the therapeutic task is not to bring the client closer to functioning - a functioning built on an idea of a human that is so far from them and so many other people. The idea is to undo the harm that normativity has caused. It's to let go of those normativities and start to reimagine what the world could be like if we allowed for the full spectrum of human experiencing, to make space for becoming on one's own terms, however they present or move through the world. Creative practice becomes essential here. Not decorative, not soft, but radical and necessary. Sensory-based creative engagement reaches the brain, the body, the heart, the soul in ways words can't. And for those constantly coerced into verbal or behavioral conformity, art, creativity, movement becomes a language of refusal, regulation, and reclamation. The work isn't to help the client survive unjust conditions. It's to help deconstruct the conditions that made survival feel like the only option. Because therapy should feel like a collaboration and becoming, not a rehearsal in being less yourself in order to survive."
From Colour Outside the Lines: Exploring Art, Gender, and Neurodivergence Beyond the Binary with Chenai Mupotsa-Russell MTAP, AThR in the Learn Play Thrive 2026 Continuing Education Summit
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Dr. Devon Price’s work sits at the intersection of trauma-informed care and Autistic unmasking. In this interview, he walks us through five core practices for unmasking, and shares how to approach them thoughtfully with Autistic clients who have experienced trauma - which is most of the Autistic community.
We explore practices such as learning your preferences and disentangling them from social norms, building resilience, cultivating distress tolerance, and shaping your life - both in big, structural ways and in the small, everyday details. A lot has been said about unmasking, but very few approaches hold the work with this level of care.
Dr. Devon Price is a social psychologist, clinical associate professor at Loyola University Chicago, and an Autistic person. His books include Laziness Does Not Exist, Unlearning Shame, Unmasking Autism, and his newest release, Unmasking for Life.
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Learning from Chenai Mupotsa-Russell will absolutely transform you. Chenai doesn't just teach us how we can use art of every kind to support well-being for our clients, she also embodies everything she teaches — art, liberation, anti-colonial practice, and so much more. In today's conversation, we explore the role that art can play in our work as providers with concrete examples, and ideas, and stories from Chenai that you can use right away. Chenai Mupotsa-Russell is an art therapist, community builder, advocate, and PhD candidate in community psychology. Her research reimagines mental health through decolonial practice, collective care, and intersectional justice.
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at https://patreon.com/learnplaythrive
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Ableism is ingrained into our society, and many of us wonder what we can do about it. Occupational therapist Sara Zielinski decided that a huge celebration - centering disability pride - in her small town would be a great place to start. What happened next was transformative. In this episode Sara teaches us how to throw a disability pride event, why events like this matter, and how we can all be change agents in our workplaces and our communities.
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
When your Autistic clients have trouble identifying the emotions inside of their bodies, emotion-based regulation systems aren't always helpful. This episode is all about how regulation can be guided by energy levels. Specifically, how we help our Autistic clients match their energy level to what’s needed for the things they need or want to do.
Our guests are the two incredible folks behind Autism Level Up. Jacquelyn Fede, who is an Autistic advocate and developmental psychologist and Amy Laurent, who is a developmental psychologist, a registered pediatric occupational therapist and co-author of the SCERTS model.
Amy and Jacquelyn’s work show us that there’s no one right way to be regulated. And this model gives a profoundly impactful alternative to traditional models of regulation. This is an updated release of Episode 7 from 2020.
Amy and Jacquelyn are also speaking at our 2026 Continuing Education Summit. Grab a ticket at learnplaythrive.com/summit
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum and recorded Q&As with our guests? Join us on Patreon at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Your support on Patreon helps keep the podcast going.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
We all know that the plans and goals that we write deeply impact what our students and clients get access to learning. Joyner Emerick – a parent and openly Autistic school board director - has completely transformed the planning process in the best possible way. Joyner has a 10 year old who is minimally speaking with high adaptive and communication support needs. In this episode, you'll hear them talk about the future visioning process they created for their child. They’ll show you how it works, how you can implement it, and the 12 valued outcomes - as Joyner calls them - that they wrote for their son. This is not a process that's for sale. We're sharing it with you in its entirety so you can take it and use it in your work too. Don't miss the show notes for this one where we share a lot of the documents, and details, and language at learnplaythrive.com/podcast.
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This conversation with Autistic OT Sorcha Rice covers regulation for Autistic PDAers from absolutely every angle. The theme Sorcha kept bringing us back to is how we can provide more autonomy for our clients in how they identify their regulation needs and how they access their regulation tools. Sorcha walks us through a case study detailing how she supported a client who was deeply in burnout to help them access regulation, communication, connection, and safety. And at the end of the conversation, Sorcha shares five deeply transformative and practical things that you can try tomorrow in your work to help Autistic PDAers feel safer. Sorcha Rice is an Autistic PDA occupational therapist in Ireland.
This is the second episode of our new twice monthly Patreon series where we showcase the people putting neurodiversity-affirming practice into action in their work. We'll explore their guiding principles and their practical strategies through conversation and case studies so that you can translate your values into your own work. Patreon subscribers also get access to recorded Q&A sessions with some of our most impactful podcast guests, and a Discourse forum to connect with other podcast listeners.
Visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive to keep learning and support our podcast.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Have you ever thought about what it would look like to put respect for the Autistic children who are your clients – respect for them as full human beings – front and center in your work? This episode goes deep into what that looks like in practice. Mick Olds (The OccuPLAYtional Therapist) helps us learn how to translate therapy goals into kids’ native language: play. They also share with us what exactly it looks like to put child-affirming values into practice, how they support PDAers, and what they do when they feel stuck in their own skills. This episode will change you.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This isn't one of our normal podcast release days, and it isn't one of our typical topics, but this conversation is just too good not to share. This bonus episode is all about Autistic representation in media. In this episode, you’ll learn what comic books, TV shows, and more you should be recommending to your Autistic clients of all ages. Our guest Britton Payne is an entertainment attorney, recently of Warner Brothers Animation and Nickelodeon. On the side, Britton runs The Autism Scene, a non-profit advocating for the inclusion of explicitly, authentically Autistic characters in pop culture. This winter, The Autism Scene is running The AuSPEC AWARDS, which is a script competition…that maybe YOU will win! This episode is incredibly fun and impactful.
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need at least 100 people to join to keep the podcast running! Patreon.com/learnplaythrive
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
So many of us feel unsure how to best support Autistic kids who have aggressive behaviors. But often, what we are missing in the most foundational need for all humans: to feel worthy and to feel loved.
In this powerful interview, Autistic educational consultant Rabecca Hand shows us how to examine the environment and adult interactions - before looking at the child themselves - when a child is struggling.
Then she teaches us how we can use this knowledge and the research behind it to create real change in the schools and the larger culture. Patreon subscribers also get a copy of Rabecca's thoughtful classroom management framework and her extensive resource list.
This is the first episode of our new twice monthly Patreon series where we showcase the people putting neurodiversity-affirming practice into action in their work. We'll explore their guiding principles and their practical strategies through conversation and case studies so that you can translate your values into your own work. Patreon subscribers also get access to recorded Q&A sessions with some of our most impactful podcast guests, and a Discourse forum to connect with other podcast listeners. Visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive to keep learning and support our podcast.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
SLP Christina Schmidt strives to work in a way that centers a client's regulation, their identity, and their dignity. If that resonates with you, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Christina shares in detail how we can best support our clients with communication needs, our AAC users, non-speakers, kids who communicate through delayed echolalia in ways that are both neuro-affirming and culturally responsive. And she shares a model for supporting clients who don’t share our identities, applying it to a real life example of a client she supported who was deeply in burnout from being subjected to compliance-based practices. Christina Schmidt is a Black, African-American Australian, multicultural, and multi-dialectal AuDHD woman who proudly embraces her identity across all facets of her work and advocacy. She's the founder of Free to Be Me Speech Therapy where she provides neuro-affirming support to both kids and adults in a way that honors each person's unique communication needs, strengths, and ways of being. Her work is rooted in justice, joy, and the ongoing commitment to amplifying diverse voices and stories, always with the belief that we deserve to be seen, heard, and free to be.
Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need at least 100 people to join to keep the podcast running! Patreon.com/learnplaythrive
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
All behavior makes sense, we just have to make sense of it. In this conversation, psychologist Dr. Gillian Boudreau helps us see that underlying nearly any behavior is fear. And so often, the fear is related to a child being startled, feeling trapped, or being shamed. But if you aren’t looking for it, it’s easy to miss. In this conversation we explore the nuance of each of these - especially for PDAers - and Gillian's exact roadmap for concrete ways to avoid them (complete with clever acronyms for each). This is a must-listen episode to help you understand your clients' experience in their lives and during your sessions.
For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com
For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Episode 67 was one of our most impactful episodes ever, and today we invite you to re-listen. Often as OTs and SLPs we skip right to teaching our Autistic clients new skills. But what about their experiences of felt safety while they are with us? What work do we need to do so that we can show up calm and connected and ready to support our Autistic kids to feel truly safe before they are ready to learn? Psychologist and school psychologist Dr. Gillian Boudreau talks us through this essential and often overlooked first step to supporting our Autistic clients. This is a re-airing of episode 67 in preparation for our next episode, which will be a new conversation with Dr. Gillian Boudreau that builds on this incredibly impactful episode. Check out Dr. Gillian Boudreau's full course at learnplaythrive.com/calm and her Spring reflective practice group at learnplaythrive.com/practice
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
If you’re anything like me, you learned how masking can harm the mental health of your Autistic clients….and then you never learned anything to put in its place. This leaves a huge gap for our Autistic clients who need us to know how to support their social and emotional well-being in an affirming way.
Today’s guest, Katrina Martin, Ph.D., helps us answer questions like:
- What do I say when a parent is asking for traditional “social skills training”?
- What do I do when a school is using Zones of Regulation in a way that doesn’t feel affirming?
- Should I ever have kids match emotion words to faces? When is this helpful, and what is it missing?
- And so much more.
Our guest, Katrina Martin, Ph.D. is a neurodivergent parent to neurodivergent kids, the creator of our online course Bridging Perspectives: Transformative strategies for neurodiversity- affirming social-emotional learning, and the founder of Bridges Learning System.
Katrina speaks from her own experience and her extensive work to show us all how we can support social-emotional well-being while respecting authentic Autistic ways of being, connecting, and communicating.
And a big update from Learn Play Thrive: All Learn Play Thrive courses will be available for sale only through December 16, 2025, with our final CE summit taking place in February and March of 2026. This is your last chance to take any of our affirming continuing education course. All courses include one year’s on-demand access and various CE board approvals. Visit learnplaythrive.com/trainings before registration closes forever.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
This bonus episode is just for the parents you support, and it is all about meltdowns. A meltdown is a full body response to feeling overwhelmed. In a meltdown, our kids' nervous systems are in survival mode. They are going to fight for their lives or flee for safety. One way or another, they are physically releasing the energy of their intense emotions. When this happens, what is in our control, and how can we respond to signal safety to their nervous system? How can we turn down the temperature and bring the child back to safety?
In this bonus episode, you’ll Amanda Diekman teaches parents a mindset shift and safety planning strategies to help you manage aggressive meltdowns in a way that helps bring your kid back to safety, without overextending your own nervous system.
Join our caregiver community and access Amanda’s full on demand course, Supporting Autistic Kids in Distress, by visiting parents.learnplaythrive.com/community
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
We are back with a bright, glittery, colorful, and inclusive dose of hope for your professional practices. Our guest Emily Zimmer is one of the most creative, inclusive speech language therapists you’ll find. And in this episode she teaches us how we can all access more creativity in how we connect with our neurodivergent clients. One of Emily’s projects is a Drag Story Hour MN. (See photos - including an AAC-using phoenix - at learnplaythrive.com/podcast). Here’s what Emily’s spouse Grady had to say about it:
"Drag Story Hour is a demonstration that each and every one of us is essential. When I was young, I only knew that [queer] 'people like me' died alone and too soon. I should have known we danced. I should have known we sang, I should have known we can grow and flourish and love and be loved deeply."
This episode is beautiful, powerful, and full of hope.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In a complicated time when so many of us are feeling disempowered, this interview is a guiding light. Nessa Hill from Neurodiversity Ireland shares her story of how she used what she learned on the podcast to change the way Autistic kids are supported in Ireland on a national scale. Her story and her message are empowering for providers everywhere. Plus, listeners from all over the world share the creative, impactful ways they have applied what they’ve learned on the podcast to their communities and their work. This episode is heavy dose of real-life inspiration. After listening, check out our three newest courses at learnplaythrive.com/new
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
We miss you! Get the updates on what's happening at Learn Play Thrive. And download our free packet of parent handouts at learnplaythrive.com
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
This episode dives deep into some of the more foundational questions around being Autistic and neurodiversity, tying this into the larger systems we are embedded in. Our guest, Dr. Devon Price, helps us explore the concepts of masking and authenticity and how we, as professionals supporting Autistic people, can push back against these pressures. Dr. Devon Price is a social psychologist, professor, author, and proudly Autistic person. He has written 'Unmasking Autism' and 'Laziness Doesn't Exist'.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In this episode, we talk about why and how part-time AAC use can support authentic participation for many autistic people. We also explore Dr. Alyssa Hillary Zisk’s insights on teaching AAC from their perspective as an engineer, as a researcher, and as an AAC user.
Dr. Alyssa Hillary Zisk is an Autistic part-time AAC user, using a variety of text-based tools. They are the AAC research team lead at AssistiveWare. Their doctoral dissertation was on brain computer interfaces for people with ALS.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In this episode with autistic AAC user Tiffany Joseph (they/them, she/her), we cover functioning labels, AAC access, how race intersects with disability in the Autistic community, aggressive behaviors, and so much more. But the thread that runs throughout the conversation is empowering our clients to participate more authentically in their daily life. Tiffany Joseph, or TJ, is an Autistic educational consultant, and runs the Instagram and Facebook pages 'Nigh Functioning Autism', where they post about AAC, being Black and Autistic, epilepsy, ADHD, OCD, and more.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In this episode (a repeat of one of our earliest episodes, episode 4), Dr. Kristie Patten takes us to the foundations of what it means to be strengths-based and the impact that it has on the lives of our Autistic clients. Dr. Kristie Patten is Counselor to the President and professor of occupational therapy at NYU and the Principal Investigator of NYU Steinhardt's NEST Project, supporting New York City Public Schools’ largest inclusion program in the United States for Autistic students. In this episode Dr. Patten shares why it's really easy to be a bad therapist and really hard to be a good one (plus some concrete steps to take to help get us there!)
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In this episode (a repeat of episode 44) we dive into interoception, our ability to understand the messages we are getting from inside our bodies. Our guest, Kelly Mahler, makes the connection between interoception and truly neurodiversity-affirming therapy practices. Kelly Mahler presents internationally on interoception and has authored 12 resources, including The Interoception Curriculum. This episode covers how a deeper understanding interoception can help us support authentic self-regulation for our autistic clients. It’s a must-listen for any professional who supports Autistic clients.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
How can we center the needs of our Black Autistic clients? And how can we create spaces that allow for joyful, authentic participation for all kids? Heather Clarke has a deep analysis of the barriers that exist - especially for Black Autistic youth - and a vision for how we can move towards making our spaces safer, more inclusive, and more joyful.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Many of us have never seen strengths-based, neurodiversity affirming goal writing in practice. In this episode, Autistic SLP Rachel Dorsey walks us through the ins and outs of how to write truly affirming goals for our Autistic clients that contribute to their well-being, not to burnout. Check out the newest version of Rachel’s CE course, Goal Writing for Autistic Students, (co-taught with an incredible team of OTs and SLPs) at learnplaythrive.com/goals.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Ido Kedar is a non-speaking AAC user who chronicles his experience in therapies both before and after he learned to type to communicate. In this re-airing of episode 9, Ido shares concrete advice on how therapists can be more respectful and effective when supporting non-speaking Autistic clients. Ido Kedar is an autistic-self advocate and the author of two books.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
What is “neurosupremacy” and “neuronormativity,” and how does this differ from the idea of “neruotypicality”? What does peer counseling offer that traditional therapy misses? How can creativity help us break seemingly firm limits set by the systems of power and oppression that exist around us? In this episode, Honey Schneider helps us see the path to reclaiming our own wholeness, and to helping our clients do the same. Honey Schneider has an MA in Mental Health Counseling from NYU. They're white, disabled, and transsexual. Honey currently works as a peer coach.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Our practice frameworks are supposed to guide our work…but what happens when their authors of our practice framework haven’t analyzed their biases? In this episode, we discuss how ableism is built into the practice framework of occupational therapists, and what it looks like to do something totally different. Today’s guest, Dr. Bryden Carlson-Giving, wrote the first neurodiversity-affirming practice framework for OTs – and there’s something to learn from it no matter what field you work in. We also dive into the cultural model of disability, the limitations of evidence-based practice, and so much more. Dr. Bryden Carlson-Giving is a queer, neurodivergent, and disabled occupational therapy practitioner who developed The EMPOWER Model.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
We talk a lot about neurodiversity-affirming practice…but what does this look like for physical therapists? Should their work be guided by developmental milestones? Is it ethical to use physical prompts and assistance? How do you know when toe walking is really a problem? And how exactly should we go about finding affirming physical therapists for referrals? Join Autistic PT Iris Warchall in episode 89 to tackle this and more.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
When this episode first aired, it was just directed at OT practitioners. But it’s simply too full of insight to not share again with our broader audience. Jen Schonger is the part time operations manager at Communication FIRST and the mom to two daughters, one of whom is Autistic. In this conversation, Jen shares her insight about the important blind spots many providers have, and the concrete ways we can support parents to develop an empowering understanding of their Autistic kids.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
As professionals, we are always working towards something with our Autistic clients. But are we working on the things that will truly help them lead the lives they want to live? In this episode, Autistic researcher Dr. Monique Botha helps us dive into the nuance, meaning, and impact of this question. They also help us identify what research should guide our practice as professionals, and what research we can leave behind.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
We all know by now that feeling safe is foundational for learning, healing, and growing. But what does it look like to cultivate safety for our Autistic clients who have experienced trauma? LPCs Sharon Hammer and Lisa Hoeme help us get into the nitty-gritty of what trauma-informed care looks like in the context of neurodiversity. Get on the waitlist for their new CE course at learnplaythrive.com/trauma
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Happy New Year! We're giving away a FREE 1.5 hour continuing education course by Autistic psychologist Matt Lowry to every professional who wants to watch it. It's called Understanding the Autistic Neurotype: A Deep-Dive from an Autistic Psychologist. It's registered for ASHA, AOTA, NASP, and ASWB CEUs and it's available on-demand from January 10 - February 21, 2024. Fill out the form at learnplaythrive.com/summit and to grab your spot! We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In this conversation, Karina Saechao helps us understand what it looks like now for multiply marginalized kids to try and access and use AAC, and what concrete steps we can all take to try and change that. Karina gives the best advice to therapists on the ground who are collaborating with parents and teachers to improve access to communication for our clients. Karina Saechao is an SLP, researcher, scholar, and activist who's really passionate about increasing equity, access, and outcomes related to research, clinical practice, and course curriculum. She’s also a PhD student and a speaker at the upcoming Learn Play Thrive continuing education summit. Check it out at learnplaythrive.com/summit
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
So many therapists are grappling with how to reconcile our feeding therapy training with what we are learning from Autistic adults. On the podcast, we’ve heard that systematic desensitization - even when it’s play-based - can feel like torture. We’ve learned that what looks like progress towards accepting new foods can actually be Autistic masking. And we’ve learned that family meals simply aren’t best for every child. In this episode, Marsha Dunn Klein, creator of the Get Permission Approach, shares with us her own journey towards aligning her work with neurodiversity-affirming practices. We dive into what this looks like for her, what she’s learned from interviewing Autistic adults, and what affirming feeding therapy can look like in your work.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
At Learn Play Thrive, we are recognizing Native American Heritage month with an episode that centers how we can support the well-being of our Native clients. In this episode, Diné and Acoma Pueblo SLP Dr. Joshua Allison-Burbank helps us dive into Native views on disability, cultural responsiveness for therapists who are supporting Autistic people on reservation or off reservation, and ways that non-Native folks can build trust and connection in their relationships with their Native clients. To keep learning from Joshuaa, join us in the 2024 Neurodiversity CE Summit at learnplaythrive.com/summit.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Most of us who are trying to work in a way that is aligned with our values have so many moments of doubt. Are we actually doing a “skilled intervention”? Is the work we are doing truly making an impact on the child’s life? Are we inadvertently causing harm? Is there something we should know but don’t know that would help more in this situation? One of my favorite things to do is to find therapists who have really done the work to align their work with their values. Kelsie Olds (she/they) exemplifies this. In this episode, we dive into the details of Kelsie’s practice as a school-based OT and their journey to where they are today.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
On the podcast we often hear from Autistic mothers diagnosed after their kids. But today, Tiffany Hammond (@fidgets.and.fries) tells us a different story. We hear about her life at the intersection of being Black and Autistic; navigating services for her two Autistic sons; and her new book, A Day With No Words. Listen to the end for Tiffany’s takeaway to providers. It’s such a simple shift, but one we could go our whole careers without learning.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In this episode, Autistic psychology practitioner Matt Lowry helps us dive into what a strengths-based diagnostics process looks like for autism, and the incredible difference this can make. We also explore what parents and other professionals should look for to find a neurodiversity-affirming evaluator when making a referral. And Matt reads us a story that he wrote called The Legend of Autistica, which is his poignant, hilarious, and insightful origin story of the Autistic people. This episode is re-release of episode 51.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
In today’s episode, Autistic OT Kim Clairy talks about sensory differences, Autistic catatonia, and interdependence in a way that should be part of our life and graduate school curricula. She weaves in her clinical expertise with her personal story and her poetry, and even brings in a surprise guest at the end. Warning: the ending is so sweet it may leave you in tears.
View show notes and transcript at learnplaythrive.com/podcast
Pull up a chair for this conversation! We are going to talk about how intersectionality is like Rubik’s cube, what Plato’s Allegory of the Cave has to do with our therapy work, the Barbie movie, and so much more. This podcast episode was gentle, profound, and transformative. Our guest, ChrisTiana ObeySumner, reminds us that our biases do come out in our work. And, gently, she encourages us to examine them.
The 2024 Learn Play Thrive Continuing Education Summit has early bird tickets on sale now! Visit learnplaythrive.com/summit to see the lineup.
In this episode we explore the role of therapists in promoting positive sexual identity and reducing the risk of sexual assault for our clients. Our guest, Sarah Selvaggi Hernandez is an autistic occupational therapist and educator working to promote an intentional identity-first approach to autism and OT. Promoting bodily autonomy starts with what we teach our youngest clients and how we treat them in our sessions. This is a must-listen episode for all therapists no matter their setting. This is a repeat episode. Sarah Selvaggi-Hernandez' course, Ethics & Neurodiversity: Let's Talk About Sex is now registered for ASWB, ASHA, and AOTA CEUs. Check it out at learnplaythrive.com/ethics
If you work with kids, here’s the thing: Autistic kids become Autistic adolescents, who may become interested in sex and dating. And if we don’t take the time to learn about what this means for them, as Autistic people, we are likely to miss the mark in how we support them. And if we don’t support them, it’s likely that no one will.
The good news is that Autistic social worker Jen Harr is here to talk us through exactly what we should know about Autistic love, dating and romance.
And hey social workers, good news! Our course, Ethics & Neurodiversity: Let’s Talk About Sex, is now registered for ASWB CEUs (with more to come!). Check it out, along with our other courses (always registered for ASHA & AOTA CEUs!) at learnplaythrive.com/trainings.
In this episode, Autistic researcher Dr. Mel Heyworth guides us in completely rethinking the pathologized model of autism. We talk about how we can tell kids they are Autistic, how we can support their passions, and so much more. Dr. Mel Heyworth is the founder of the Australian organization Reframing Autism.
We know by now that Autistic adults are the real experts on how Autistic people experience the world. In this episode, Autistic SLPs Rachel Dorsey and V Tisi take us deeper than we’ve ever gone into how we can understand and support authentic, Autistic social communication in any context. If you listen to this episode and want to keep learning, check out their newly released CE course Let’s UNMASC: Understanding the Needs and Motivations of Autistic Social communication at learnplaythrive.com/unmasc
What can those of us working in behaviorally oriented spaces do to try and protect the well-being of our Autistic clients? What impact does shame have on the wellbeing of Autistic kids? What's it like to be a Black Autistic organizer in mostly white spaces? Why should we shift from a charity model to a direct aid model in supporting marginalized groups? In this episode, we dive into all of these issues with Finn Gardner, the Director of Policy and Advocacy at the Autistic People of Color Fund. He is a Boston-based queer, Black, and disabled writer, designer, community organizer, speaker, editor, researcher, advocate, activist, and more.
In this episode we talk about the experience of trans and gender non-conforming Autistic people and their voices. Our guest, SLP Ruchi Kapila, has a really unique practice where they support their clients to use their voices in ways that feel authentic to them and their gender identity. But this episode isn't just for SLP’s: the lessons about gender-affirming care are relevant to all of us supporting Autistic people.
In this episode, Reyma McCoy Hyten helps us explore the root causes of oppression for Autistic people, and sit with the discomfort of examining our role in it. Reyma McCoy Hyten is Autistic and was the first Black woman to ever serve as the US Department of Health and Human Services Commissioner for the Administration on Disabilities. After two decades as a helping professional, Reyma now focuses her work on "how systems create marginalization in the first place.”
In this episode, our guest, Dr. Devon Price, helps us explore the concepts of masking and authenticity and how we, as professionals supporting Autistic people, can push back against these pressures. We also explore some of the more foundational questions around being Autistic and neurodiversity. Dr. Devon Price is a social psychologist, professor, author, and proudly Autistic person. He has written 'Unmasking Autism' and 'Laziness Doesn't Exist'.
This conversation starts with books, then goes into more books, takes a turn into self-advocacy, and then finishes with a powerful message for therapists working with Autistic kids. And if you're wondering, we'll get to the narwhals too. Our guest, Lei Wiley-Mydske, is an Autistic and otherwise neurodivergent and disabled writer, artist, advocate, activist, and parent. Lei runs so many cool projects – including a neurodiversity library inside of a tattoo shop – that we discuss in this episode.
Often as OTs and SLPs we skip right to teaching our Autistic clients new skills. But what about their feelings of felt safety while they are with us? What work do we need to do so that we can show up calm and connected and ready to support our Autistic kids to feel truly safe enough to learn? Psychologist and school psychologist Dr. Gillian Boudreau talks us through this essential and often over-looked first -step to supporting our Autistic clients.
Autistic PDAers need different kinds of supports to feel safe. And before we can provide those, we have to get curious and learn about their needs. Casey Ehrlich from At Peace Parents helps us learn how to foster true safety for our PDA clients. Content warning: this episode includes a detailed description of Autistic burnout for a young child.
Far too often research centers outcomes that actually harm Autistic people. Today’s guest, Dr. T.C. Waisman, helps us move toward research that centers Autistic well-being as defined by Autistics.
In this episode, we field listener questions to Alex Zachos of Meaningful Speech to learn how we can more authentically and effectively support kids who learn language through delayed echolalia. This episode is a follow-up to Episode 40 on supporting Gestalt Language Processors.
Today’s guests, Meghan Ashburn from Not an Autism Mom, and Jules Edwards from Autistic, Typing, will be our guides in examining how we as professionals can create the world Autistic kids and their families deserve. Together we’ll dig through everything that is happening now for families of Autistic kids including going through the diagnostic process, finding a community of families for support, and looking for the right professionals to support Autistic kids in an affirming way. Check out Meghan & Jules’ new book, I Will Die on This Hill, at your favorite bookstore!
This episode is about how we as therapists build something different to support our autistic clients' social and emotional development, with our ethics and values guiding us and our autistic students as our co-creators. Our guests are SLP Carolyn Long of Social Optics and her student-turned-colleague, Nick.
We are gearing up for our OT Neurodiversity Continuing Education Summit and it's going to be transformative. Learn more about it here or visit learnplaythrive.com/summit
Dr. Winnie Dunn totally changed how we think about sensory processing for Autistic people. In this episode, we explore a person-centered, strengths-based way to consider our Autistic clients’ sensory needs in their daily lives. We also get Dr. Dunn’s advice on how to use her tool – The Sensory Profile II – in a way that will make your work easier and more impactful. This is a re-release of episode 16 of the podcast.
There’s a tool that is missing from most of our therapy bags: it’s lowering the demands for our Autistic clients. This tool is irreplaceable for helping Autistic people recover from the burnout cycle, and even for preventing burnout all together. Amanda Diekman (“Low Demand Amanda”) helps us figure out how to do just that.
How does the historical and present-day trauma of Native Autistic kids impact their experience of our therapy? And how does the linear worldview of non-Native therapists create a gap between us and our Native clients? In this episode, Jules Edwards, who is Anishinaabe and Autistic, talks about culturally responsive therapy for supporting Native Autistic kids.
In this episode, Dr. Kristy Coxon and Dr. Caroline Mills look at how we can support Autistic people’s meaningful participation in daily life as they enter older adulthood. And then they help us apply these lessons to supporting Autistic people of any age, in any setting.
EPISODE SUMMARY
The medical model is pervasive, and it asks us to silo the health needs of our Autistic clients. But our Autistic clients are full people, and their needs are intertwined. In this episode, Autistic primary care physician Mel Houser helps us reimagine healthcare and other systems that aren't working for the Autistic community, breaking down access barriers and implementing universal design for all neurotypes.
In this three part episode, we hear from parents of multiply disabled kids on their experiences of inclusion in the schools, collaborating with therapists, and AAC. This episode takes us back in time into the history of the disability rights movement in the US and then to the present day, with practical advice that should guide how we support multiply disabled Autistic clients. Our guests include Taina Moretti, whose son has Angelman Syndrome; Evie Jesperson, whose daughter is Autistic and has CP; and an anonymous caller.
Here’s the truth: if we aren’t engaging in a process to learn about our clients’ cultures and our own biases, we are likely causing harm. In this episode, intersex and transgendered SLP AC Goldberg helps us explore how culturally responsive care can be the difference between causing micro-traumas for our clients or creating meaningful, positive relationships. We talk about gender, race, class and more, bringing it down to the make-or-break moments in our sessions that we may not even notice are happening.
Ready to dive deeper into neurodiversity-affirming approaches to feeding? Our guest Laura Hellfeld, Public Health Nurse, explores the relationship between PDA and feeding, dives into eating disorders, and shares her personal experience with PICA. This episode will take you deeper into dismantling ableist approaches to supporting picky eaters of all ages.
In this episode, neurodivergent RD Naureen Hunani helps us unpack the harm of systematic desensitization for picky eating in autistic kids. Then she lays out a framework for what we can do to support picky eaters in a more affirming way. This episode will inspire you to reassess everything you thought you knew about best practices in feeding therapy.
Have questions on teaching AAC to your autistic clients? Kate McLaughlin, M.S., CCC-SLP has answers! In this episode we field listener questions to Kate and get her insight on the ins and outs of teaching AAC without prompting, where to start for beginners, getting parent buy-in, working with kids who hit the same button repeatedly, choosing the right software and grid size, paying for devices, and more. Kate brings us back time and time again to the key values of autonomy and authenticity in how we approach AAC.
In this episode, Autistic psychology practitioner Matt Lowry helps us dive into what a strengths-based diagnostics process looks like for autism, and the incredible difference this can make. We also explore what parents and other professionals should look for to find a neurodiversity-affirming evaluator when making a referral. And Matt reads us a story that he wrote called The Legend of Autistica, which is his poignant, hilarious, and insightful origin story of the Autistic people.
Lydia X. Z. Brown is an autistic attorney and disability justice advocate who specifically focuses on violence against multiply-marginalized disabled people. Join us as we explore how racism impacts the lives of Brown, Black and Indigenous Autistic people, and what steps therapists should take to move towards an anti-racist practice. This is a replay of episode 3 and we think you just can't hear it enough times.
This episode is the story of how an autistic physicist, an autistic occupational therapist, and a neurotypical speech language pathologist came together to try and break down the barriers to truly authentic inclusion for autistic kids in Durham, North Carolina. Our guests, Sam Brandsen, Janelle Fenwick, and Jenna Meehan are a neurodiverse group of therapists, researchers, and parents who set out to identify the barriers to inclusion for autistic kids and then to do the work to dismantle them. They share the resources they created and how we can do the same work in our own communities.
In this episode we explore how our ideas about disability – both as a society and as individual therapists - can deeply impact a parent’s relationship with their child and the child’s own view of themselves. Our guest, Chelsea Wallaert, is an occupational therapist and PhD student in disability studies who is deeply passionate about helping parents have more equitable and positive experiences with their disabled kids, especially during early childhood. Before we as therapists can show up fully for our clients, we must be able to identify ableism in our world and in ourselves and start the work to dismantle it. In this episode we talk about how to do just that.
In this episode, we explore neurodiversity-affirming social-emotional learning through video games and stories. Our guest, Vanessa Castañeda Gill. Vanessa is autistic and the founder of Social Cipher. Our conversation goes into why game-based learning works, and how we can teach some of the most important social and emotional lessons in our work with autistic clients.
You can check out Social Cipher at https://www.socialciphergame.com/ and if you decide you want to purchase it, use coupon code LPT15 for 15% off.
In this episode we explore the role of therapists in promoting positive sexual identity and reducing the risk of sexual assault for our clients. Our guest, Sarah Selvaggi Hernandez is an autistic occupational therapist and educator working to promote an intentional identity-first approach to autism and OT. Promoting bodily autonomy starts with what we teach our youngest clients and how we treat them in our sessions. This is a must-listen episode for all therapists no matter their setting.
In this episode we explore how a comprehensive literacy framework can totally transform how we approach speech and OT goals around reading and writing. Our guest, Jane Farrall, is a speech pathologist and special educator with extensive training and experience in literacy. This episode covers how SLPs and OTs can support reading comprehension and writing development in the larger frame of literacy.
In this episode we dive into interoception, our ability to understand the messages we are getting from inside our bodies. Our guest, Kelly Mahler, makes the connection between interoception and truly neurodiversity-affirming therapy practices. Kelly Mahler presents internationally on interoception and has authored 12 resources, including The Interoception Curriculum. This episode covers how a deeper understanding of interoception can help us support authentic self-regulation for our autistic clients.
In this episode, we talk about what it means to cultivate an authentic life together with our autistic clients, from early childhood through adulthood. Our guest, Maisie Soetantyo, is an openly autistic family and inclusivity consultant who founded the Autism Career Pathways. She’s worked with families for 3 decades and believes that nurturing one's autistic authenticity is a critical first foundation to meaningful self-advocacy, career path and living the best life as an autistic person. This episode covers parent coaching in touch situations, cultivating a growth mindset, creating opportunities for meaningful work for our clients, and more.
In this episode with preschool director Corrie Price, we go into exactly how you can build neurodiverse, inclusive early childhood spaces from the ground up and from the top down. Corrie Price is a life-long advocate for children and families and the director of Evolve Early Learning, an inclusive preschool in Asheville, NC.
In this episode with autistic AAC user Tiffany Joseph, we cover functioning labels, AAC access, how race intersects with disability in the autistic community, aggressive behaviors, and so much more. But the thread that runs throughout the conversation is empowering our clients to participate more authentically in their daily life. Tiffany Joseph, or TJ, is autistic and runs the Instagram and Facebook pages 'Nigh Functioning Autism', where she posts about AAC, being black and autistic, epilepsy, ADHD, OCD, and more.
In this episode we deeply explore how therapists misunderstand kids who communicate using scripts, how traditional approaches just don’t work to support their language acquisition, and a totally new framework we can all use to support them in a meaningful way. Our guest, Alexandria Zachos, is a speech-language pathologist who has presented at ASHA and all over the world on delayed echolalia and gestalt language processing. She owns a private practice in Illinois called Social Butterfly Speech Therapy and runs Meaningful Speech, where she teaches an online course on gestalt language processing and shares tons of absolutely transformative content on social media. You can check out Alex’s online course at bit.ly/gestaltcourse.
Kat Harhai is a facilitator, educator, and writer, and currently works as the Neurodiversity Collaboration Facilitator at Bridges Learning System. She is multiply disabled and was late diagnosed as autistic as a young adult. Katrina Martin is the founder of Bridges Learning System. Katrina is fully dedicated to moving beyond the deficit-based model of education for autistic students and moving into a model that focuses on strengths and teaches the benefits and values inherent in diverse ways of thinking.
In this episode we talk about social and emotional learning from a neurodiversity-affirming perspective…and we don’t just talk about what NOT to do, we get really specific about a beautiful model called the Social-Emotional Acuity Bridge that Kat, Katrina, and their team have developed that everyone can use in their own work.
Sarah Selvaggi Hernandez is an occupational therapist and educator working to promote an intentional identity-first approach to autism and OT. She’s also a mother to three neurodiverse children. In this episode, we explore Sarah’s experiences as an autistic mother, the types of supports that help her thrive in her daily routines, and her own process of self-advocacy. Then we apply this insight to the clinical work of anyone working with autistic children, children with autistic mothers, and autistic mothers themselves.
Greg Santucci is an occupational therapist and the founder of Power Play Pediatric Therapy. Greg provides workshops and trainings to parents and professionals all over the country on compassionate, collaborative, and neuro-developmentally informed approaches. In this episode we talk about how restraint, seclusion, and behaviorism harm kids, and why they are more prevalent than we’d like to admit. Greg shares how he fights these practices on the ground as a school-based OT and at the policy level. And finally, we explore Greg’s Model of Child Engagement as an alternative to behavioral approaches.
Dr. Alyssa Hillary Zisk is autistic, a part-time AAC user, and a recent graduate from the interdisciplinary neuroscience program at the University of Rhode Island. In this episode, we talk about why and how part-time AAC use can support authentic participation for many autistic people. We also explore Alyssa’s insights on teaching AAC from Alyssa's perspective as an engineer, as a researcher, and as an AAC user.
Rachel Dorsey is an Autistic SLP in private practice, a consultant, and the creator of a new Learn Play Thrive course, Goal Writing for Autistic Students: A Neurodiversity-Affirming Approach. In episode 35, we cover the basics of the neurodiversity paradigm and why and how to write strengths-based goals. Rachel also gives us the inside scoop on her own journey towards neurodiversity-affirming practice.
Rachel Coley is an OT and mom of three kids, one of whom is autistic. She’s also the founder of CanDo Kiddo, where she gives strengths-based strategies for supporting infant development. In this episode Rachel and I talk about how her OT practice has grown and changed to embrace a neurodiversity-affirming, strengths-based approach. We dive into what it means to be strengths-based with very early development, and concrete ways that schools and school-based therapists can better support neurodivergent kids at every level.
Moyna Talcer is an autistic occupational therapist and researcher who conducted a qualitative study on the sensory experiences of autistic mothers. Her findings have implications for the ways we support not only autistic mothers, but all autistic people, starting in childhood.
Oswin Latimer is the founder and President of Foundations for Divergent Minds (FDM) and former Director of Community Engagement for the Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN). In this episode, Oswin and I talk about the specific executive function strategies we can use to support our autistic clients’ participation in meaningful daily activities.
Dr. Andrew Gordon is a cognitive neuroscientist specializing in memory, decision making, cognitive control, and misinformation research. This episode is a deep dive into a study conducted by Dr. Gordon and a team of researchers on how executive function differences really show up neurologically for autistic people. And what they found in the study wasn’t that autistic people had executive function deficits, but that they used their executive control networks differently. In this episode, Dr. Gordon explores this research and its implications. This is part one of a two-part series on executive function. In the next episode, we’ll go even deeper into the practical ways we can support autistic people in their daily lives.
Michelle Neuringer is mom to an autistic 6 year old and neurotypical 9 year old. She’s committed to deeply learning from and about her daughter throughout her parenting journey. Jane Sloan, who teaches Michelle's daughter, is a seasoned educator with a deep passion and gift for partnering with parents. Listen into the episode to discover what a collaborative parent / professional relationship combined with a strengths-based approach truly looks like, and the concrete ways that you can translate this to your professional therapy practice.
Dr. Stephen Shore is an autistic advocate, consultant, writer, professor at Adelphi University, and adjunct professor at NYU. His work focuses on aligning best practice in supporting autistic people to lead fulfilling and productive lives. He’s a co-author of the book Ask and Tell: Self-Advocacy and Disclosure for People on the Autism Spectrum.
Join us in Episode 29 where we:
- Learn Dr. Shore’s step-by-step framework for teaching self-advocacy
- Learn how to effectively scaffold self-advocacy so our clients feel supported and successful
- Explore how self-advocacy is an essential component for supporting our autistic clients
- Apply Dr. Shore’s self-advocacy framework to specific case studies
Timotheus Gordon Jr. blogs and posts on social media as The Black Autist. His posts center on autism acceptance, race, disability, and the latest news relevant for autistic people who are black, indigenous, or people of color (BIPOC).
Join us in episode 28 where we talk about:
- Racism and exclusion within the disability community
- The stories of BIPOC autistic people interacting with police
- Real, replicable community-based alternatives to police intervention in crisis and the Community Emergency Services & Supports Act, expected to pass in Illinois
- Timotheus’s advice to therapists working with BIPOC autistic people.
This is an important conversation you don’t want to miss.
Kate McLaughlin, M.S., CCC-SLP (“The AAC Coach” on social media) is a Speech-Language Pathologist specializing in augmentative and alternative communication (AAC) for individuals with complex communication needs. She believes that autonomous communication, inclusion, and self-determination are fundamental human rights. Listen into this episode as we explore:
- The difference between autonomous and independent communication, and how understanding this distinction can open up new opportunities for our clients
- What it means to be an “emergent communicator” and tons of specific ways we can support them
- 4 concrete strategies we can use to teach robust AAC in a respectful and engaging way (Spoiler: not a single one of these strategies is prompting!)
Rachel Dorsey is Autistic and an ASHA-Certified Speech-Language Pathologist. Join us in episode 26 as we totally overhaul everything you thought you knew about the social skills of autistic people.
In this episode, we dive into:
- Rachel’s own experience as an autistic person with neurodiverse and neurodivergent friendships
- The subtle and insidious ways that OTs and SLPs are teaching our autistic kids to hide their own thoughts and emotions, even when we think we aren’t
- The surprisingly negative ways that traditional social and social/emotional interventions can play out throughout a child’s life
- How we can use a neurodiversity-affirming approach instead to support our clients’ strengths and their sense of positive self-identity and belonging
Elsbeth Dodman is an autistic artist, creative writer, and public speaker.
Tune into episode 25 where we talk about:
- Elsbeth’s own experience with autistic shutdowns, and the concrete strategies that helped her work through them
- Elsbeth’s brilliant reframe of what “Whole Body Listening” means and why autistic people are actually quite good at it
- What it looks like when we turn the mirror onto neurotypicals and examine concepts like rigidity and empathy
- How Elsbeth built a life on her strengths, and how we can support our clients to do the same
Kristy Forbes. Kristy is an autistic support specialist for neurodivergent people and their families and professionals. She is the founding director of both inTune Pathways and The Neurodivergent Co. Kristy is autistic with ADHD and a Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) profile. She is also the mother to 4 autistic kids.
Listen into episode 24 where we explore:
- Kristy’s experience as a PDA autistic person, professional, and parent
- How we can use a family-centered approach to both support our autistic clients and help meet the needs of the whole family
- Kristy’s biggest advice to professionals supporting autistic people with a PDA profile
Harry Thompson is a UK-based public speaker and writer who is autistic with a Pathological Demand Avoidance profile. Through his work Harry aims to bring more acceptance and joy to the lives of people who are autistic and have a PDA profile.
In episode 23, we dive into:
- What it means to have a PDA profile, and what those of us supporting PDAers should know
- Harry’s own PDA journey and his drive for autonomy and authenticity in his life
- The strengths and challenges of having a PDA profile
- Harry’s biggest advice to therapists working with autistic people
Christa Holmans is an autistic self-advocate from Texas who runs the neurodiversity lifestyle blog Neurodivergent Rebel. Listen into Episode 22 as we:
- Dive into Christa’s journey as a gender fluid autistic person
- Explore how gender expression and sexuality relate to authenticity
- Find concrete ways that OTs can support the development of positive identity around gender and sexuality for our autistic clients
- Learn Christa’s biggest piece of advice to OTs
Zosia Zaks is a certified rehabilitation counselor, author, and autistic self-advocate. He manages the Towson University's Hussman Center for Adults with Autism, where he teaches service-learning courses that examine autism through a social justice lens. Listen to episode 21 where we explore:
- How diversity education can truly shift the paradigm to make disability inclusion more effective and empowering for everyone
- Why attitudinal accommodations are the key to positive inclusion for autistic people
- The concrete ways OTs can support autistic people at work
- What true self-advocacy looks like and why and how to start it young
- How everyone benefits from accommodations and advocacy strategies used by disabled people
Jacklyn Googins is the cofounder of the OTs for Neurodiversity social media movement and the founder of B3 Coffee, an inclusive pop-up coffee stand in Chapel Hill, NC. Greg Boheler, who is autistic, is the cofounder of OTs for Neurodiversity and a board member for B3 Coffee.
Join us in Episode 21 where we:
- Explore the practical changes that OTs for Neurodiversity strives to make in the field of occupational therapy, and how these can completely transform the work we do
- Dive into concrete examples of the content that Jacklyn and Greg create, including how we can shift our thinking on both echolalia and sensory processing differences towards a more strengths-based, person-centered approach
- Look deeply at the B3 Coffee model and learn how inclusivity and neurodiversity can truly benefit everyone
Damian Milton is an autistic researcher whose idea spawned a huge shift in how we think about autism. In this episode, listen in as we explore:
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How Damian developed his hypothesis that the trouble with empathy and social skills is a two-way street between autistic and non-autistic people, not a deficit of autistic people
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What early research Damian did to confirm this hypothesis
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One thing Damian would love to see OTs stop doing with social stories and comic strip interventions with autistic clients
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A tip for how to better approach sensory processing challenges with autistic kids, with a cautionary tale from his own life
Jacquelyn Fede is a developmental psychologist and autistic self-advocate and Amy Laurent is a developmental psychologist and pediatric occupational therapist. They are the co-founders of Autism Level Up, where they push people who support and care for autistic people to take our work to the next level. This talk is an edited replay of their interview for the Neurodiversity in the New Year summit. Listen in to the episode to transform your idea of what it means to do play interventions with kids on the spectrum. We’ll dive deep into:
- How play interventions may be robbing autistic kids of the chance for true, restorative, freely chosen play
- How we can reframe developmental interventions that use toys or playful activities, but are not truly play for our clients
- What it means to truly watch, learn from, and listen to our clients as they joyfully engage in true play
Sarah McCulloch is an autistic occupational therapist based in London, the senior OT in a school for autistic kids, and the founder of The Autistic Empire. Listen in to episode 17 as we explore:
- The question we should all be asking ourselves before we start any intervention
- Why the best approaches to therapy require the perspective of both autistic and non-autistic therapists
- The important shift Sarah recommends we all make in our work around sensory aversions
- How The Autistic Empire is promoting self-actualization for autistic people (and how we all can too!)
Dr. Winnie Dunn is a distinguished professor of occupational therapy at the University of Missouri, the author of the Sensory Profile, and a trailblazer in occupational therapy research and practice. Dr. Dunn’s latest research focuses on parent coaching and occupations in everyday life. Listen in to episode 16 as we explore:
- How to understand sensory processing differences using a strengths-based lens
- How and why to support our clients in their everyday lives - even if we work in contrived settings
- Dr. Winnie Dunn’s surprising advice on how to use the Sensory Profile that may make your work so much easier
- Dr. Dunn’s advice to OTs that brought us both to tears
Sarah Selvaggi Hernandez is an occupational therapist and educator working to promote an intentional identity-first approach to autism and OT. Listen in to the episode as we dive deep into:
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Why we should be focused on the development of positive identity for our autistic clients, and what might be getting in our way
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Concrete strategies we can use to help our clients flourish, inspired by the occupational science philosophy of doing, being, belonging, and becoming
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Sarah’s powerful message to parents of newly diagnosed autistic children
Dr. Matt Braun is a speech language pathologist who owns a private practice in the Kansas City area. His doctoral thesis examined whether OTs and SLPs write our goals and evaluations from a strengths or deficits-based perspective. This episode is the third in a three-part series. First check out episodes 4 and 12, then join Dr. Braun in this episode we:
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Explore what real, strengths-based, in-context intervention looks likes
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Answer all of your listener questions about IEPs, reducing paperwork time, working with parents, and more!
Elizabeth is an autistic adult and licensed occupational therapist who specializes in trauma-sensitive practices. Elizabeth is a lifelong learner with an innovative OT practice informed by so many areas of study. Listen in to this episode as we explore:
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Why trauma-sensitive practices are essential for our work with autistic people
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What Trauma Center Trauma Sensitive yoga is, and how Elizabeth uses it her work
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Concrete, easy-to-apply trauma sensitive practices we can all start implementing right away
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How mutual aid and autistic community can (and should!) play into our work with families
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Elizabeth’s simple but profound takeaway for OTs (hint: it’s not that we should be doing more in our sessions)
Dr. Evan Dean, PhD, OTR/L, is Assistant Research Professor at the University of Kansas and Associate Director at the Kansas University Center on Developmental Disabilities. His research focuses on promoting community participation for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities through enhancing self-determination, supported decision making and career design.
Dr. Scott Tomchek, PhD, OTR/L, FAOTA is Professor of Pediatrics and Assistant Director of the Weisskopf Child Evaluation Center at the University of Louisville. He co-authored the AOTA practice guidelines on autism. Strengths-based, family-centered care is central to all programs he touches. Listen into this episode as we dive deep into:
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The question you’ve all been emailing me to ask: How do we write strengths based evaluations and goals!?
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And then the other question on the mind of U.S.-based providers: How do we get insurance to pay when writing strengths-based evaluations?
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And most importantly: Why is a strengths-based evaluation process so important, and how does impact everything that follows?
This episode is detailed and specific; we talk about everything from early intervention to early adulthood. Including those handwriting goals you may have been writing for your middle-schoolers. Warning: this episode is likely to inspire you to do something totally different in your very next evaluation. Are you ready??
Emily Lees is an autistic speech and language therapist and an advocate for pro-neurodiversity approaches. Listen to the interview with Emily as we explore:
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The unique challenges and strengths that being autistic presents to girls, and Emily’s own journey of being misdiagnosed in her adolescence
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Emily’s experience with job interviews and work, and the types of supports we should consider for other autistic adolescents and adults in the job interview process
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How Emily teaches self-advocacy to her students, and her unexpected response when a student says “Leave me alone”
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The ways that Emily’s autism can be a strength for her as a speech language pathologist and as a role model for girls
Jen Schonger is the Program Manager at the New Jersey Autism Center of Excellence and the mom to two daughters, one of whom is autistic. She is so insightful and is an incredible advocate for parents and for autistic children. Listen to this episode as we:
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Explore the surprising blindspots many OTs have when working with parents
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Learn about the concrete things that helped Jen develop a positive, empowering understanding of autism, and how we can help other parents to do the same
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Discover the shifts that therapists can make to transform the parent experience starting from the very first session and continuing through their work together
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Get Jen's savvy advice about working with parents who want something different than the neurodiversity approach
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Dive into Jen’s suggestions for school-based OTs about the most important thing they can be doing to support autistic students
Ido Kedar is an autistic-self advocate and the author of a two books. He is a non-speaking autistic person who uses a voice-output typing device to communicate. Listen to my interview with Ido as we discuss:
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His experience with OT, speech, and ABA before he had a way to communicate when no one was presuming his competence
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How learning to communicate changed everything, and why learning to spell and type isn’t a simple as it sounds
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Why Ido doesn’t like labels like “high functioning” and “low functioning”
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What sensory and executive functioning supports Ido found helpful in his journey, and what outdated strategies he wishes therapists would leave behind
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Ido’s advice to therapists who write goals to suppress stimming
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Ido’s concrete challenge to our listeners who want to better understand the perspective of our non-speaking clients
Deirdre Azzopardi is an occupational therapist with over 25 years of experience who has invested years into continuing education related to social and emotional learning for kids with disabilities. Join into the conversation as we explore:
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How we are missing out on a huge opportunity for our autistic clients by overlooking exercise in favor of non-aerobic “sensory processing” activities.
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Why the stress and boredom that school-based therapists often bring to our sessions may be negatively impacting our outcomes, and what to do about it. (Spoiler: the answer is super fun).
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How and why to teach simple mindfulness activities in our sessions and in our whole-class instruction.
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How to love your job more and better connect with your autistic students starting tomorrow. Listening on the way to work? You can even start today.
Jacquelyn Fede is a developmental psychologist and autistic self-advocate and Amy Laurent is a developmental psychologist and pediatric occupational therapist. They are the co-founders of Autism Level Up! where they challenge OTs to listen to autistic voices and level up our work with people on the spectrum. Join in the conversation as we:
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Explore why the emotional model of regulation may not connect with many autistic people
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Dive deep into how to support autistic clients using three the Autism Level Up tools: the Energy Regulator, the Person in Context, and the Power Plan
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Breakthrough the myth that “calm” is the right energy state for every context, and get clear on what we can aim for instead
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Move towards a context-driven and empowering model of intervention for self-regulation
Joy F. Johnson is a black, autistic behavioral therapist who runs Spectrum Support Services. She brings a new perspective to the podcast in so many ways. Join into the conversation as we discuss:
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How joy uses her behavioral training to help keep black autistic kids safe when interacting with the police, and what strategies we all should be using to do the same
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Joy’s take on behavioral strategies that we've been critiquing on this podcast like planned ignoring, using reinforcers, and using hand-over-hand assistance from her perspective person who is trained in ABA and also black and autistic
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Joy's experiences with racism and ableism in the United States
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Why Joy loves watching credits, the surprising doors her interests have opened for her in adulthood, and several important reasons why we shouldn’t withhold an autistic person’s interests from them
Greg is a pediatric occupational therapist who presents workshops nationally on topics related to sensory processing, challenging behaviors, and improving school-based therapy services. Greg is a huge advocate for best practice in OT. Join us as we discuss:
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Why OTs already have the skills we need to work effectively and respectfully with our autistic clients, but often don't use them
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How behavioral approaches such as planned ignoring and token boards can be harmful to our autistic clients
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What empowering strategies we should all be using instead
Kristie Patten is the chair of the Department of Occupational Therapy at New York University whose cutting-edge work focuses on using strength-based approaches in autism. Join us in this episode as we delve into:
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How most OTs wound up using a deficits-based model with autistic kids and why this is not serving our clients well
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Why we should move away from withholding kids' interests from them. We'll also talk about how first-then schedules and even limiting screen time may fall into this category
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How we can support autistic clients to build from their strengths to support their joy and participation in life, leisure, and work
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What we should be doing instead of social skills groups
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Why it's really easy to be a bad therapist and really hard to be a good one (plus some concrete steps to take to help get us there!)
Lydia X. Z. Brown is an autistic attorney and disability justice advocate who specifically focuses on violence against multiply-marginalized disabled people. In this episode, join us as we:
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Dive deep into how white supremacy and white privilege play out for autistic kids
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Learn how systematic racism and trauma impact the diagnosis and treatment of autistic kids, including the unexamined racism of many OTs
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Explore the role that police and prisons play in the schools and lives of autistic black, brown, indigenous, Asian, and POC kids
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Discuss concrete steps OTs can take to become anti-racist in their work
Damian Milton is an autistic researcher whose idea spawned a huge shift in how we think about autism. In this episode, listen in as we explore:
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How Damian developed his hypothesis that the trouble with empathy and social skills is a two-way street between autistic and non-autistic people, not a deficit of autistic people
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What early research Damian did to confirm this hypothesis
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One thing Damian would love to see OTs stop doing with social stories and comic strip interventions with autistic clients
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A tip for how to better approach sensory processing challenges with autistic kids, with a cautionary tale from his own life
Welcome to episode 1! In this episode Sarah and I dive deep into how our OT practices can better reflect our respect for autistic voices and our autistic clients. Join us while we:
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Revisit how the podcast idea was born and named
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Explore the most pressing reasons not to use hand-over-hand assistance with autistic kids (I'll also talk about why we say "autistic" not "kids with autism")
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Discuss autonomy, sex, race, the foster system, and so much more
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Explore the most pressing changes needed by OTs working with autistic people, and what concrete steps we can take to get there