Blind Spots: Exploring What We Cannot See: Recent Episodes
Windrose Recovery
Exploring blind spots that exist in the cultural, relational, and therapeutic process, host Dr. Chantelle Thomas will have candid discussions that delve into the more challenging aspects of self-discovery. Filled with engaging and straightforward conversation, each episode features conversations with well-respected experts who examine what is commonly overlooked in the intricate and often inter-connected world of recovery, trauma and wellness. Join Windrose Recovery and its Executive Clinical Director Dr. Chantelle Thomas as we attempt to uncover barriers to personal growth from the perspective of both clients and clinicians.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas speaks with Jayne Gumpel about her journey into psychedelic therapy and her work leading ketamine-assisted retreats. They explore the power of group dynamics, the importance of integration, and how ketamine enhances mindfulness and healing. Jayne shares her innovative approach to creating spaces for connection, joy, and personal growth.
(00:07) Introduction to Jayne Gumpel and Her Work (11:39) Retreats for Healing: Philosophy and Structure (20:31) Group Dynamics and Connection in Retreats (32:01) Challenges of Post-Retreat Integration (49:08) Ketamine and Mindfulness in Therapy (1:17:27) Couples Therapy with Psychedelics
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Cultivating the Joy of Intimacy & Communication: A Ketamine-Assisted Retreat for Couples: https://www.relationshipresources.info/retreats/april-2025
‘Cultivating Joy’ Emerging Leaders Program: https://www.relationshipresources.info/emergingleaders
Cultivating Joy | Finding Beauty in Loss and Grief: A Ketamine-Assisted Retreat: https://www.relationshipresources.info/retreats/cultivating-joy-finding-beauty-in-loss-and-grief-a-ketamine-assisted-retreat-june-2025
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Dr. Chantelle Thomas and Dr. Evan Sola discuss the implications of the FDA's decision not to approve MDMA for PTSD treatment, emphasizing the nuances of the MDMA-assisted therapy model. They highlight ongoing clinical trials, including those at the Portland VA and UCLA, and the importance of accurate public and therapist education. Dr. Sola shares his experience with severe PTSD patients and the relational aspects of therapy, stressing the need for humility and supervision. They address misconceptions about the model, advocating for a non-pathologizing, participant-led approach that values the therapist's role in validating and supporting the client's process.
(0:00:33) Introduction
(0:07:30) Evan Sola and His Work
(0:18:13) Discussion on Public Perception and Therapist Education
(0:29:37) Challenges and Misrepresentations of the MDMA-Assisted Therapy Model
(1:11:45) The Importance of Relationality and Organicity in Therapy
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Frontier article:
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2024.1427531/full
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Evan Sola, PSYD: https://www.evansolapsyd.com/
Lykos: https://lykospbc.com
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Ronica Mukerjee, DNP, MsA, FNP-BC, PMHNP-BC, LAc, a family and psychiatric nurse practitioner and acupuncturist, discusses her multifaceted work, including holistic psychiatry, gender-affirming care, and psychedelic-assisted treatment. She highlights her work with refugees, particularly Haitians, and her efforts to establish a free trans care program. Ronica shares her experiences in Tijuana during COVID-19, providing medical care in a chaotic environment. She emphasizes the need for inclusive, culturally sensitive approaches to mental health and psychedelic therapy, particularly for marginalized communities. Ronica is also developing educational resources to make psychedelic work accessible to a broader audience.
(0:00:34) Introduction
(0:03:14) Work in Mexico and Refugee Health
(0:09:45) Challenges and Experiences in Tijuana
(0:25:16) Psychedelic-Assisted Treatment and Its Impact
(0:47:41) Challenges in Psychedelic Research and Access
(0:49:39) The Role of Psychedelics in Mental Health
(0:50:05) The Future of Psychedelic Therapy and Research
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Ronica Mukerjee, DNP, MsA, FNP-BC, PMHNP-BC, LAc, Assistant Professor of Nursing at CUMC: https://www.nursing.columbia.edu/profile/ronica-mukerjee-dnp
Lykos: https://lykospbc.com
Dr. Chantelle Thomas and Dr. Ingmar Gorman discuss the safety and ethical considerations of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD, including standardization, non-directive approach, and adherence to therapy protocol. They also explore complex power dynamics in therapeutic relationships, ethical nuances of supporting participants in psychedelic studies, and the importance of representing a diverse population in psychedelic trials.
(00:00:00) Introduction
(00:08:22) Therapist-participant relationships in psychedelic-assisted therapy trial.
(00:14:58) Challenges in supporting participants in psychedelic studies after the end of the trial.
(00:23:11) Standardizing therapy for MDMA-assisted therapy trial.
(00:32:11) The importance of non-directional support.
(00:36:37) Operationalizing therapy techniques to ensure consistency and address power imbalances.
(00:43:06) Psychedelic therapy adherence and rating systems.
(00:50:08) Therapist flexibility in the trial.
(00:56:54) Inclusion of diverse participants.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Dr. Ingmar Gorman: https://www.ingmargorman.com/about
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Ingmar Gorman about their experiences working as clinicians in MDMA clinical trials. They discuss the controversial Institute for Clinical and Economic Review (ICER) report and the impact it may have on treatment availabilty in the future.
(00:00:00) Introduction
(00:10:13) Overview of MDMA trials
(00:27:10) Details of dosing sessions
(00:35:16) Adverse events
(00:56:34) Clinician Administered PTSD Scale (CAPS)
(01:12:11) Inner healing capacity
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Dr. Ingmar Gorman: https://www.ingmargorman.com/about
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Chris Stauffer about his unique path to becoming a provider of psychedelic therapy, which began in the theater.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Dr. Chris Stauffer, MD, Director of SNaP Lab: https://www.chrisstauffermd.com/
Dr. Stauffer (he/they) is Associate Professor of Psychiatry at Oregon Health & Science University (OHSU) and dual board-certified in Psychiatry and Addiction Medicine. Dr. Stauffer is an OHSU medical school alum and completed Adult Psychiatry Residency and an Advanced Neuroscience Research Fellowship at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). Dr. Stauffer is an MDMA-assisted therapy supervisor, trainer, and educator, is a member of the Oregon Governor's Psilocybin Advisory Board, and has served as an expert psychedelic therapy consultant for various federal agencies. Dr. Stauffer has served in curriculum development, teaching, and mentorship roles for many programs, including the Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research at the California Institute of Integral Studies, Integrative Psychiatry Institute’s Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy Training, and Naropa University’s Center for Psychedelic Studies.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas and Nick Brüss chat about the common aims and integration of internal family systems therapy (IFS) and psychedelic-assisted therapy.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Nicholas Brüss, EdD, LMFT: https://psychedelic.support/network/nicholas-bruss-edd-lmft
Dr. Chantelle Thomas and Kevin Franciotti have a wide ranging conversation about new opportunities, risks, and political implications of using psychedelics in recovery.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Kevin Franciotti: https://www.kevinfranciotticounseling.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Blind Spots producer Andrew Isham about her experience providing ketamine assisted psychotherapy (KAP) at Integrata. They also discuss what the direction of the podcast will be in 2024.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies: https://maps.org/
Polaris Insight Center: https://www.polarisinsight.com/
The Ketamine Training Center: https://theketaminetrainingcenter.com/
Psychedelic Research and Training Institute: https://pratigroup.org/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas connects with Dr. Willa Hall. They discuss their experiences facilitating psychedelic-assisted therapies.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery:
https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Willa Hall, Clinical Psychologist:
https://www.nautilussanctuary.org/about#&gid=1326960091&pid=1
Dr. Chantelle Thomas has a wide-ranging conversation with Dr. Chuck Raison about how consciousness plays a role in psychedelic-assisted therapies.
Dr. Chuck Raison, M.D., Mary Sue and Mike Shannon Chair for Healthy Minds, Children & Families in the School of Human Ecology and a Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin – Madison:
https://www.psychiatry.wisc.edu/staff/raison-charles/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery:
https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Peter Hendricks about the use of psychedelics to treat substance use disorders.
Peter Hendricks, Ph.D., Department of Health Behavior University of Alabama at Birmingham
https://www.uab.edu/news/experts/all-experts-category/item/10947-hendricks-peter
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery:
https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Tammy Limbach about the combination of somatic experiencing with ketamine assisted therapy.
Tammy Limbach, Certified Roller, Yoga Practitioner and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner: http://tammylimbach.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Dr. Steve Thayer, Ph.D. about his early years as a therapist in the military, his involvement with psychedelic assisted therapy, and how it relates to his experience growing up in the LDS church.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Steve Thayer, Ph.D.: https://www.drstevethayer.com/
Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers Podcast: https://numinus.com/podcast/
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies: https://maps.org/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Andrew Isham about her experience providing ketamine assisted psychotherapy (KAP), and about Integrata, a new outpatient KAP service.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Integrata: www.integratahealing.com
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies: https://maps.org/
Polaris Insight Center: https://www.polarisinsight.com/
The Ketamine Training Center: https://theketaminetrainingcenter.com/
Psychedelic Research and Training Institute: https://pratigroup.org/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas has a wide-ranging conversation with therapist Rachel Rubenstein.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Rachel Rubenstein, LCSW, CSAT-S, SEP-C: https://changesfc.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Lea wolf, who assisted in her child birth process and is now teaching doulas and training to be an internal family systems (IFS) therapist.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Lea Wolf: www.leawolf.com
Lumos Birth & Baby (classes, workshops, support): www.welcometolumos.com.
A Good Birth: Finding the Positive and Profound in Your Childbirth Experience by Anne Lyerly: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A6WV4AC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Dr. Larry Leeman about psychedelic assisted therapy.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Lawrence (Larry) Leeman, MD, MPH, Medical Director, Maternal Child Program, UNM School of Medicine: https://fcm.unm.edu/administration/people/profiles/larry_leeman
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Dr. Joe Kort about the role of sex in a therapy.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Joe Kort, PhD, LMSW, Clinical Director and Founder, The Center for Relationship and Sexual Health: https://joekort.com/
"Smart Sex, Smart Love" podcast: https://joekort.com/podcast/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Blind Spots producer Andy Isham about how the HBO series "Succession" demonstrates intergenerational trauma.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Derek Bylsma, Executive Director at Millennium Counseling Center, about issues that come up when working with athletes in recovery.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Derek Bylsma, Executive Director, Millennium Counseling Center: https://millenniumhope.com
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Mike Thalasinos about providing psychotherapy for children, adolescents and families.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Michael Thalasinos, MS, LMFT: https://www.psychiatry.wisc.edu/staff/thalasinos-ms-lmft-michael/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to colleagues about how to address trauma in treatment.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Pam Peckham, APSW, CSAT, SAC, ASSISTANT CLINICAL DIRECTOR, The Manor
Peggy Nies Scargall,MSW, LCSW, SAC, PRIMARY THERAPIST, The Manor
Victoria Ariens, LPC, CSAC, ICS, NCC, PRIMARY THERAPIST, The Manor
Dr. Chantelle Thomas chats with Andy Isham about how the new documentary "The Wisdom of Trauma" featuring Dr. Gabor Mate, relates to her experience with addiction treatment.
See the documentary here: https://thewisdomoftrauma.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Body-Centered Psychotherapist Sheila Johnson about the various types of dissociation that present in patients and how to work with them.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Sheila Johnson, Body-centered Psychotherapist, Winding Path Psychotherapy: http://www.winding-path.com/about
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Andy Isham about how the film Sound of Metal relates to her experience with addiction treatment.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas continues the discussion with certified sex addiction therapists (CSAT) Oren Matteson, Tara Lemasters, and Pam Peckham about their experiences with sex addiction and process work.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Oren Matteson, Vice President and Clinical Director, Millennium Counseling Center: https://millenniumhope.com/millennium_team/oren-matteson/
Tara Lemasters, Licensed Psychotherapist Relationship Coach and Life Coach: http://www.taralemasters.com/
Pam Peckham, Assistant Clinical Director, The Manor by Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Jessica Del Pozo and Sara Tripalin, MS, LMFT about their professional and personal experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director, Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Sara Tripalin, MS, LMFT, Peace of Mind Therapy: https://peaceofmindtherapy.com/therapists/sara-tripalin/
Dr. Jessica Del Pozo, Psychologist, Lemke Health Partners: https://www.lemkehealth.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to certified sex addiction therapists (CSAT) Oren Matteson, Tara Lemasters, and Pam Peckham about their experiences with sex addiction and process work.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Oren Matteson, Vice President and Clinical Director, Millennium Counseling Center: https://millenniumhope.com/millennium_team/oren-matteson/
Tara Lemasters, Licensed Psychotherapist Relationship Coach and Life Coach: http://www.taralemasters.com/
Pam Peckham, Assistant Clinical Director, The Manor by Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to her mom about her experiences as a child and how those experiences carry through to adulthood and the raising of her own children.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Andy Isham about how the series Queen's Gambit relates to her experience with addiction treatment.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Ed Tilton about intensive treatment with men at the Begin Again Institute.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
https://www.beginagaininstitute.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Megan Thompson Kates PhD, Anu Kotay PhD, and Brooke White PhD about navigating the challenges and opportunities of being both a mother and a clinical psychologist.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Anu Kotay PhD: http://www.anukotay.com/
Brooke White PhD: http://www.fullcirclehealth-wellness.com/dr_brooke_white_-_montpelier_office.
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Molly Rossignol about what it’s like to work with an interdisciplinary team treating addiction and trauma.
Dr. Molly Rossignol, Family Medicine Doctor and Addiction Medicine Specialist: https://www.catholicmedicalcenter.org/find-a-doctor/molly-e-rossignol
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director of Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
A Long Walk in the Woods by Adam Hill, M.D.: https://www.amazon.com/Long-Walk-Out-Woods-Physicians/dp/1949481220
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Dr. Marcus Earle about a unique intensive approach to therapy, blind spots therapists might deal with in their personal lives, and opportunities for growth in the time of COVID.
Dr. Marcus Earle, Clinical Director of Psychological Counseling Services in Scottsdale, AZ: https://pcsintensive.com/therapist/marcus-earle/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
The Mind of a Therapist Podcast with Andrew Earle: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mind-of-a-therapist/id1500333162
Dare to Be Average by Ken Welles: https://www.amazon.com/Dare-Be-Average-Brilliance-Commonplace/dp/0578634600
Dr. Chantelle Thomas talks to Tammy Limbach about the role of somatic experiencing in addiction treatment.
Tammy Limbach, Certified Roller, Yoga Practitioner and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner: http://tammylimbach.com/
Dr. Chantelle Thomas, Executive Clinical Director Windrose Recovery: https://windroserecovery.com/
Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van Der Kolk, M.D.: https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748
Hillary Jacobs Hendel's the Change Triangle:https://www.hilaryjacobshendel.com/what-is-the-change-triangle-c18dd
