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Most agency owners probably haven’t thought much about shadow AI (the name for when employees use their personal ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini accounts to do work). In fact, owners may be doing it as well. In this episode, Chip and Gini walk through what the risks are and how to respond without overreacting.

The instinct to crack down is understandable but wrong. Employees are going to use their own tools regardless, often because personal accounts are better trained or more accessible than whatever the company has set up. The goal should be education, not elimination. Most employees don’t know that personal accounts default to feeding data into training sets, or that a single toggle can turn that off. That one fix alone is worth a conversation with your team.

Vibe coding and a plain-language AI policy get discussed, in addition to educating your team. Gini’s team runs weekly micro-learning sessions to help people use AI as a thinking partner, not just a drafting tool. Both Chip and Gini advise that owners and employees who aren’t using AI meaningfully within the next year or two are putting their careers and businesses at risk. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 312: Managing “Shadow AI” at your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Veteran communications leader Mark Dollins joins “On The Same Page” as co-host. Mark and Shel address the “voice” leadership applies internally, as opposed to (or consistent with) the voice they employ with external stakeholders. Should it be the same? How different? What considerations drive the inside-the-company voice? And why does it matter?

Leave comments below, or send them to https://fircommentes@gmail.com, where you can attach up to a 3-minute audio file. (You can create that audio file right here — look for the “Send Voicemail” tab on the right side of this page.)

Learn more about Mark at his LinkedIn profile and at the website of his consulting firm, Northstar Communications.

Links from this episode:

• A Message from Airbnb Co-Founder and CEO Brian Chesky
• Better.com CEO to take time off after firing hundreds of employees over Zoom

Raw transcript:

Shel Holtz: So, Mark, an executive’s voice. I’m curious: In your experience, do you find that executives use the same voice with internal stakeholders as they do with external stakeholders?

Mark Dollins: I think in most cases, they do not, and that’s actually a great point for us to talk about—why that is. Because when an executive uses one voice on the outside and changes it on the inside, people know, and they want to know why. It sounds incongruous to them.

So I don’t think executives do it all the time. Sometimes it happens naturally, and sometimes I think it’s intentional, so we should talk about that.

Shel: When I’m talking to my wife, it’s a different tone of voice than when I’m talking to, say, my accountant. Is it inappropriate to talk differently to investors than to employees?

Mark: Is it inappropriate? Probably not. But you have to really think about the nuance of the tone, because people know when they’re being “messaged,” and internal stakeholders don’t want to feel like they’re being messaged. They also want it straight.

They’re going to hear a lot of the financial implications from the external stakeholder version of the story. What I find is that often those things aren’t included in the internal communication. There’s almost an assumption that internal stakeholders aren’t listening to or aware of what’s happening externally. That’s a problem.

Shel: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Episode 5 of On The Same Page. I am Shel Holtz. I’m Senior Director of Communications at Webcor. We’re a commercial general contractor operating in California and headquartered in San Francisco.

And I would like to introduce you all to the new co-host of On The Same Page, Mark Dollins. Mark, it is awesome to have you here.

Mark: Shel, thank you. I feel like there should be confetti and a marching band, but thank you for that introduction. I am honored to co-host this with you. I’m really excited about it.

Shel: I think we’re going to have a great time and cover a lot.

I want people to get to know you a bit before we jump into this topic of finding your leader’s voice—and, in fact, even your own voice—for internal stakeholders.

You and I met—I can’t remember how long ago this was—but it was in Chicago at what was then Quaker, which was owned by Pepsi. You were VP of internal communications at Pepsi. That’s where we got to know each other. It was through Sharon McIntosh, who brought me in at the time.

But tell people about yourself. What has been your career trajectory?

Mark: The big picture is that I started as a journalist. I worked for ABC News in Washington and then went to the Midwest as a newspaper reporter for a couple of years. I couldn’t make enough of a living to support myself, so that’s what brought me to the world of corporate communications.

I spent 10 years in gas and electric utilities—a lot of fires, gas explosions, power outages. After all that, it was a lot more fun talking about Cap’n Crunch and Rice-A-Roni, so that’s what brought me to the world of consumer packaged goods, with Quaker Oats Company in Chicago.

I loved working at Quaker. Quaker became part of PepsiCo in 2001, and I did a couple of stints back and forth. I ended up being their chief communication officer for food, so Frito-Lay in addition to all the Quaker and other food products in the portfolio. Then I was their chief communication officer for the beverage division as well.

From there, I began my consultancy. I got pulled back into the corporate world and ran executive and global employee communications for DuPont as it went through a $130 billion merger with Dow in 2017.

So there was a lot of change communication, which we’ll talk about at some point in this series. Then I went back to consulting. Now I’m doing work in employee and change communications, and employee engagement is really where I’ve found my sweet spot. I have a great love, passion, and expertise in this area, and there’s nobody better than you to partner with to talk about it.

Shel: It’s going to be great. You’ve also written a book that I really enjoyed.

Mark: You mean these?

Shel: Yeah, the ones on the wall behind you.

Mark: Yes. I partnered with John Stemmle at the University of Missouri School of Journalism. I’m an adjunct there as well these days and have been teaching a class based on this book, Engaging Employees Through Strategic Communication.

The first edition came out in 2021, and the second edition just came out a few months ago this year. I’m really excited to have added new case studies and a few new chapters, including one on artificial intelligence and how employee communicators are beginning to use it in lots of different ways, and another new chapter on crisis communication.

So there are lots of new things. It’s constantly evolving, and I think we’ll be doing a third edition before you know it.

Shel: And I know that you also do a survey on the use of AI for internal communications.

Mark: We’re about to release our fourth consecutive annual study on AI and communications, specifically looking at it through the lens of employee communicators: how we’re using it both for productivity and for more strategic applications, and what our attitudes are toward it.

There have been lots of changes in four years, as you might imagine, so I’m excited to talk a little bit about that at some point as well.

Shel: In fact, for listeners to this podcast who also listen to For Immediate Release, Mark is going to be talking about that survey on an FIR interview coming up in, I think, just a couple of weeks.

Mark: I think we’re recording it next week, Shel, so I can’t wait to talk about it.

Shel: I know Neville and I are both looking forward to that as well.

One more thing about you personally before we start talking business. In your personal life, I know that you’re into wrestling.

Mark: I am. They have Masters tennis and Masters swimming, and they actually have Masters wrestling as well. I’ve been active in that space for about the last 10 years or so. I wrestled in high school and college. I coach. I also just got my Gold Level certification from USA Wrestling.

It’s their highest level of coaching certification. I went with the Under-23 national team to the Pan American Championships a couple of months ago, and then helped run a development camp at the Olympic Training Center for under-18-year-olds.

So my coaching journey continues, as does my athletic and competition journey in wrestling. I love it. It’s a lot of fun.

Shel: Great. People should get to know you better as we carry on with this podcast over the months.

But let’s talk about this idea of voice. In my framework, I think it fits very nicely in a couple of places. One is consultation, as we work with executives to help them become better communicators. I also think it fits really well with the channels we use. If executives are a channel for communicating, they have to do that effectively, and we need to manage that channel.

Mark: And we need to help other communicators. If you work in executive communications, there are ways now to accelerate your drafting process and put content more into a comfortable voice that works both for you as the counselor and coach, and for your executive, who needs to find his or her voice and stick to it.

I’ve spent some time working with CEO types on how to do exactly that. Anything we can do to help our colleagues advance their productivity, become more efficient, and get better at supporting their executives—while still preserving their role as coach—I think would be helpful.

Shel: I went looking for examples of an executive employing a great voice with internal stakeholders and then an example of executives not doing it so well.

The positive example I found is Brian Chesky, the CEO of Airbnb. This is not an obscure example.

This was around a layoff in 2020. It was really awful news that he was delivering. They were eliminating nearly 2,000 jobs, about 25 percent of the company.

His May 5 employee message was very human. It didn’t sound like somebody had crafted it. He explained what the business circumstances were. He talked about the uncomfortable truths concerning the future of travel. This was just as COVID was sending people home.

He explained how the company decided which jobs they were going to eliminate. He laid out the principles that guided the cuts, and then he gave an extraordinary amount of detail about severance, equity, healthcare, and job assistance.

And he was willing to say that he felt real emotion—a real connection to the people with whom they were having to part ways.

That could have sounded mawkish in some other CEO’s remarks. But in the context of their culture and everything else in the message, it sounded like him. It was very authentic.

Authenticity, I think, matters a lot in how an executive talks to employees.

Mark: I agree, Shel. The thing is, a lot of executives don’t have that authenticity naturally when they’re communicating to large audiences.

If you’re talking to them one-on-one, they’re as authentic as they can be. But you put a couple more people in front of them, or they’re talking in front of thousands, and all of a sudden—if they’re shy or struggle to find a tone that fits the situation—it becomes more than apparent. You think, “Okay, this person is either not telling the truth, or they’re just a crappy communicator.”

That’s where the role of an executive communications coach comes in. We’re the ones helping them by saying, “Gosh, that feels a little stiff. Let’s use this technique to help you come across more naturally.”

There’s the tone—making sure it’s transparent—and then there’s the content, to your point. Are we actually moving the needle with content that’s believable and transparent?

Or are we sugarcoating it? Are we telling one thing to shareholders—“Hey, we’re taking a $130 million charge. We’re going to cut 13,000 jobs,” or whatever it’s going to be—and then the internal message is, “We’re going to try to save as many jobs as possible”?

It’s incongruous, and employees pick up on that very quickly. That’s not transparent. It’s just bad practice.

Shel: It’s funny. I met somebody who was in a room with Hillary Clinton—just a small group of three or four people and Hillary Clinton—and this person said she was absolutely shocked at what a great communicator she was, how warm she was, how conversational and authentic.

She said, “I’ve seen her speak so many times. I was expecting this distant, cold, on-message sort of person.” But that’s not what she was like in person.

So it is important to work with executives so that they can convey what they’re like in front of one person or a small group when they’re talking to hundreds or thousands.

Mark: Yes. And I’ll tell you someplace where I see this popping up more. There are examples where that authenticity and care for internal stakeholders are brought into an external environment.

You and I both know that employees today are getting information from their companies and their leaders on channels like LinkedIn as much as they are on their internal channels. They’re watching. They’re listening. They’re reading that kind of stuff.

A couple of examples: I’ve been working with Pittsburgh International Airport. Their CEO makes it a point, every time she’s talking about what’s happening at the airport, to acknowledge the hard work of her team members and internal teams. They just built and opened a beautiful $1.8 billion terminal there, but every time she’s out talking to stakeholders, she acknowledges the hard work her team members have done to make that happen.

Another example is Signet Jewelers. They own Jared, Kay, and Zales. Their CEO, J.K. Symancyk, when he’s doing quarterly earnings, talking to CNBC, or doing something on LinkedIn, invariably talks about the contributions of their team members.

That’s authentic. Our job in helping and coaching executives is to say, “Make sure you don’t forget that,” because in the heat of the moment—maybe it’s live broadcast TV—putting a little note or even a sticky note that says “team members” is a great way to help them bring that authentic voice forward so it doesn’t come across as scripted and unbelievable.

It sends a huge message of authenticity to internal stakeholders: “Yeah, you had a great quarter. Yay, shareholders. But don’t forget who actually made that happen. That’s us—the people behind the scenes doing the work.”

So I’m a big believer in not forgetting the channels that cross over, and in providing that kind of coaching to an executive leader to ensure his or her voice comes across as appreciative of the hard work of the company—but more importantly, the people behind it.

Shel: Do you remember Jacques Nasser by any chance?

He was with Ford Motor Company, and he would send an email to employees—I think it was monthly. I read about this in a Fortune magazine article. It had to be 20 or 25 years ago.

He would not let anybody review it. Not his communicators, not his lawyers, not HR. He said, “I want this to be me, unfiltered, straight to the employees. I don’t care if there are typos. I don’t care if I say something you don’t want me to say. I’m willing to risk that in order to be completely unfiltered and authentic.”

They told a story about one of these emails where he said, “I know there’s a lot going on in the company, and I should be talking about what’s happening at work. My daughter is graduating from high school this afternoon, and that’s all I can think about. So I want to tell you all about my daughter and everything she’s done in her school career.”

He got notes of congratulations from union shop stewards.

But I think he is an exception to the rule. I don’t think being unfiltered and being authentic are necessarily the same thing.

I think executive voice is disciplined authenticity.

Mark: I agree.

I’m going to jump a little bit to a different topic: how you find that voice.

I worked with the CEO of a major company in the last 12 months who couldn’t really describe his voice. I said, “Tell me what you think your voice is.”

I went through a lot of things that were publicly available, and I ran them through some reviews using what we’ll call artificial intelligence. It was able to help me identify things like tone, pacing, timbre, word choice, and things like that.

Then I was able to go back to the CEO and say, “Is this how you would describe your voice? Does that feel right?” And I had specific examples pulled forward.

“Yeah, that sounds like me. That sounds like me. That doesn’t really sound like me.”

So it was interesting to arrive at a definition of what that voice was.

The purpose was, first, to get alignment with him, but also to help the executive communications professionals working with him. They were having a really tough time getting him a first draft that was close to his voice.

The content was roughly okay, but the voice was all wrong.

So there are ways of doing this. It’s about helping executives recognize and reflect on what their voice is and what works for them. Then sometimes you have to say, “Yeah, it might work for you in some cases, but it’s not so great in others. You’re pretty stiff, so let’s come up with some agreements about how we can fix this.”

You still retain what works for them and their voice, but add some nuances that let you polish it and make it work for other stakeholders.

Shel: One of the problems is that we tend to try to label an executive’s voice with adjectives, right?

“You’re approachable. You’re conversational.”

I think you need to get more detailed than that. You need to ask questions like: Does this executive explain why before saying what? Do they use stories or evidence? Do they acknowledge uncertainty? Are they funny or self-deprecating? How do they sound when they’re taking responsibility for things?

Mark: How often do they say “team”?

Shel: Exactly. What would they never say?

Then you bring all of that together and ask, “Is this your voice?”

If you’re going to use AI to help with this, those are the kinds of things you have to feed it. These are words they use all the time. These are words they never use. These are the approaches they take to supporting a point they’re making.

Mark: And the world is changing constantly.

It could be a new CEO who comes from outside the company. It could be a very senior-level person who has moved into a CEO role and needs to refine that voice because maybe what worked in the previous role doesn’t work as a CEO.

We have to keep those things in mind as we provide that counsel and coaching: “Okay, you have a great voice for this, but you know what? You’ve got a whole new world here that you have to work with. Let’s talk about how we can refine that and make it work for all the stakeholders, including internal employees, whom we have to reach and who have to believe in us.”

Shel: One thought before we wrap this episode up: It doesn’t matter what the executive’s voice is if what they say does not align with what they do.

They can be heartfelt, and they can get choked up when they’re talking to employees. But if their behavior is inconsistent with that, that is a failure of integrity.

That creates a say-do gap.

Mark: We’ve seen examples of that, right? People who want you to believe, “I’m open, transparent, and a decent human being,” and yet they do conference calls or send out a blanket email to fire 35,000 people at once.

I’m not really seeing the connection there.

You’re right. Their actions have to be consistent with how they want to be seen.

Shel: By the way, you mentioned bad layoffs. I had said I found an example of an executive doing this badly.

Vishal Garg, with Better.com, laid off 900 people at the same time. He invited them all to a Zoom call—this was in December 2021—and told them they were part of the unlucky group whose employment was being terminated.

Then he accused some of the terminated employees of stealing from the company by being unproductive.

There was considerable backlash, so much so that he had to apologize for failing to show respect and appreciation. The board actually announced a leadership and cultural assessment as a result.

That’s what executive voice looks like when it goes badly wrong.

Mark: Not a lot of love shown there.

I think a lot of people are familiar with that story, but it’s good to be reminded that this is real stuff that happens. It makes you wonder: Was there an internal or executive communication person even there in the room?

And if so, was he or she ignored?

There’s a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking about that stuff, but you just wonder: How the heck does that happen?

Shel: You have to believe either there was no communications perspective in the room or it wasn’t listened to.

This is why I think we have to talk about the “seat at the table,” even though I get really sick of that conversation.

Mark: Me too, Shel. We definitely have to talk about that.

AI is a great example of where people are saying, “Yeah, we never get a seat at the table.”

And I’m thinking, “You have no idea the opportunity that is in front of you right now, this very second.”

Shel: We’ll definitely do an episode on that.

But that’ll do it for this episode. I hope listeners will send us your comments and questions. Just head over to firpodcastnetwork.com and find the show. You’ll get all the information on how to comment.

And until next time, Mark, this has been great. I’m really looking forward to continuing this.

Mark: I’m loving it. What a great partner. Thanks, y’all. I look forward to continuing this journey with you.

The post OTSP #5: Finding Your Leader’s Voice for Internal Stakeholders appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Episode 132 of IABC’s Circle of Fellows examines what the newly released Reimagining Tomorrow 2026 report from the Global Alliance for Public Relations and Communication Management means for the profession. The report surveyed 536 communication professionals across six global regions and found a profession that has embraced AI in practice but not yet claimed AI governance in leadership: 95.9% of organizations now permit AI, yet only 8.6% have communication professionals leading the formal governance structure. One in four organizations discloses AI use to no one at all.

Joining moderator Shel Holtz are Bonnie Caver and Adrian Cropley OAM, both Global Alliance board directors and the research partners behind the survey, along with Theomary Karamanis and Mike Klein. Together, they dig into what the data means for the profession, what it will take to move from adoption to accountability, and what it takes to be a leader in the AI era.

About the panel:

Bonnie Caver, SCMP, is the Founder and CEO of Reputation Lighthouse, a global change management and reputation consultancy with offices in Denver, Colorado, and Austin, Texas. The firm, which is 20 years old, focuses on leading companies to create, accelerate, and protect their corporate value. She has achieved the highest professional certification for a communication professional, the Strategic Communication Management Professional (SCMP), a distinction at the ANSI/ISO level. She is also a certified strategic change management professional (Kellogg School of Management), a certified crisis manager (Institute of Crisis Management). She holds an advanced certification for reputation through the Reputation Institute (now the RepTrak Company). She is a past chair of the global executive board for the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC). She currently serves on the board of directors for the Global Alliance for Public Relations and Communication Management, where she leads the North American Regional Council and is the New Technology Responsibility/AI Director. Caver is the Vice Chair for the Global Communication Certification Council (GCCC) and leads the IABC Change Management Special Interest Group, which has more than 1,300 members. In addition, she is heavily involved in the global conversation around ethical and responsible AI implementation and led the Global Alliance’s efforts in creating Ethical and Responsible AI Guidelines for the global profession.

Adrian Cropley is the founder and director of the Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence, a global training and development organization. For over thirty years, Adrian has worked with clients worldwide, including Fortune 500 companies, on major change communication initiatives, internal communication reviews and strategies, professional development programs, and executive leadership and coaching. He is a non-executive director on several boards and advises some of the top CEOs and executives globally.

Adrian is a past global chair of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), where he implemented the IABC Career Road Map, kick-started a global ISO certification for the profession, and developed the IABC Academy. Adrian pioneered the Melcrum Internal Communication Black Belt program in Asia Pacific and is a sought-after facilitator, speaker, and thought leader. He has been a keynote speaker and workshop leader on strategic and change communication at international conferences in Canada, the U.S., Europe, the Middle East, Malaysia, Singapore, China, India, Hong Kong, Thailand, New Zealand, and Australia. He has received numerous awards, including IABC Gold Quill Awards for communication excellence, and his Agency received Boutique Agency of the Year 6 years running.

Adrian is the Chair of the Industry Advisory Committee for the RMIT School of Media and Communication and a Fellow of the IABC and RSA. In 2017, he was awarded the Medal of Order of Australia for his contribution to the field of communication.

Dr. Theomary Karamanis is a multiple award-winning communication professor and consultant with 25 years of global experience. She is currently a full-time senior lecturer in Management Communication at the Cornell SC Johnson College of Business and regularly delivers executive education programs in leadership communication, crisis communication, and strategic communication. She has held several professional leadership positions, including Chair of the GCCC (Global Communication Certification Council), Chair of the IABC (International Association of Business Communicators) Academy, and Chair of the IABC Awards committee.

Her academic background includes a PhD in communication studies, a Master of Arts in mass communication, and a postgraduate certificate in telecommunications, all from Northwestern University, as well as a bachelor’s degree in economics from the Athens University of Economics and Business. She also holds professional certifications as a Strategic Communication Management Professional (SCMP), online facilitator, and executive program instructor. She has received 40 professional communication awards, including 12 Platinum MarCom awards, 7 Gold Quill awards, 4 Silver Quill awards, and a Comm Prix award. In 2020, she received the Award for Excellence in Communication Consulting by APCC (Association of Professional Communication Consultants) and ABC (Association for Business Communication). She is the author of several books and academic papers on communication, and she also regularly delivers presentations at international conferences and other business forums.

Mike Klein is the Editor-in-Chief of Strategic Magazine, Founder of #WeLeadComms, and a communication consultant specializing in internal and social communication based in Reykjavik, Iceland. A former US political consultant, Mike shifted direction toward internal communication while pursuing his MBA at London Business School. Since then, Mike has been one of the leading voices for empowering communication professionals, and advocating a focus on internal influence and social connection as drivers of communication, integration and performance. His 2011 book, From Lincoln to LinkedIn remains relevant as organizations recognize that personal credibility and connection are critical to communication success in a world where content volumes are increasing and instability flourishes. Raised in Chicago, Mike has lived and worked in seven different countries, and is also a Fellow of the Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence and the Institute of Internal Communication.

The post IABC Fellows Explore AI and the Leadership Moment for The Communication Profession appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Most companies are experiencing some level of turmoil over their adoption of Artificial Intelligence. They should be able to lean on their managers to interpret these issues at the ground level. Research, however, finds that training has left managers out. They may be getting some of the same training all employees are getting, but nothing to help them guide their teams. That will become more and more problematic as challenges continue to mount—like the two issues that have emerged recently: companies shifting the models they’re using, and employees stepping out of their areas of expertise because AI can give them information they would normally turn to internal subject matter experts for.

Links from this episode:

• ‘Tokenmaxxing’ hits limits as workplaces look for cheaper artificial intelligence
• Workers are crossing job boundaries with AI, OpenAI research shows
• Managers say they don’t feel ready to lead an AI-fluent workforce

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR is tentatively scheduled to drop on Monday, August 24.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw Transcript:

Shel Holtz:

When companies change something they’ve been extolling for the last six months, managers are expected to support that change. When employees step outside their lane, managers are supposed to manage that. But can managers do these things when they haven’t been prepared?

That’s the case with some of the fallout from the introduction of artificial intelligence in organizations. The details are coming up in this short midweek episode of For Immediate Release.

Hi, everybody, and welcome to episode 524 of For Immediate Release. I’m Shel Holtz, and you’ve got just me again this week.

I have three artificial intelligence stories to share with you. Organizational communicators are going to have to live at the intersection of all three of these issues, whether we’re ready or not, so let’s tackle them as parts of a bigger whole.

I’ll dive into these stories right after this.

Let’s start with the whiplash.

For the past year or so, companies have been in what some have come to call the “token-maxing era”: Throw AI at everything, reward employees for burning through as many tokens as possible, and worry about the ROI later.

Nvidia’s Jensen Huang was quoted as saying that if your half-million-dollar engineer isn’t burning $250,000 in tokens, something’s amiss. Meta reportedly ran an internal competition rewarding token usage.

That was the mood last spring.

Summer’s mood is different.

The Associated Press—and, by the way, this same reporting ran in The Washington Post, The Philadelphia Inquirer, and elsewhere—describes companies now hitting a wall. Costs went up, productivity didn’t keep pace, and the bill is coming due.

We covered this in episode 517 back in early June, but just as a reminder: Uber blew through its entire annual AI budget in four months, according to its CTO, and has since rolled out spending tiers starting at $1,500 a month per employee.

Some companies aren’t just tightening budgets; they’re switching platforms entirely. One AI startup called Lindy moved 100% of its traffic off Claude and onto DeepSeek, the cheaper Chinese alternative. Its CEO told CNBC that the cost curve “crashed to the ground.”

Multiply that kind of switch across every company currently having the same conversation, and you’ve got a specific communication problem: How do you explain to a workforce that, after spending months enthusiastically evangelizing one tool, you’re now moving employees to a different one—possibly overnight—for reasons that are mostly financial and don’t actually involve the employees who have been building things on the original tool?

That’s problem number one.

Problem number two is going to make problem number one look simple, because it’s not just about which tool people use. It’s about what people are allowed to do with it.

Axios got an exclusive look at new OpenAI research drawn from more than 800,000 work-related ChatGPT messages from business users. The finding is that workers are routinely doing other people’s jobs.

Roughly 44% of occupation-specific requests involve tasks typically associated with a different profession. After stripping out generic activities such as drafting emails, customer service employees, designers, and HR professionals are the biggest boundary crossers. Something like three-quarters of their profession-specific prompts touch work that belongs to somebody else’s job title.

People are using ChatGPT to draft marketing materials, troubleshoot software, run financial calculations, and interpret regulations—jobs that used to require reaching out to a specialist for help.

OpenAI’s chief economist told Axios that the boundaries between jobs are already becoming more flexible because of this.

Now, if you’re in communications, you can probably already hear the governance questions stacking up.

Who’s accountable when a well-meaning employee uses AI to draft something that touches legal, financial, or regulatory territory in which they have no training?

What happens to your carefully built subject-matter-expert review process when everyone feels like a generalist?

And when something goes wrong because of bad advice, off-brand sentiment, or a compliance miss, who owns that failure? Is it the employee, the tool, or the manager for not seeing it coming?

That brings us to the third piece, and honestly, it’s the one that worries me most.

HR Dive reported on new research from Indeed and YouGov. The headline number is that 43% of managers say they feel poorly equipped—or not equipped at all—to lead a workforce that’s fluent in AI.

More than half of workers say they’re not getting the AI training they need. Employer expectations for what workers should be doing with AI are running two or three times ahead of what workers actually feel comfortable doing.

Indeed pointed out that companies have spent two years building AI-ready workforces. The next challenge—and arguably the harder one—is building AI-ready leaders.

Now, put these three stories together and you get a pretty clear picture.

Companies are going to keep switching models and vendors as the economics shift. Employees are going to keep wandering across job boundaries because the tools make that easy and, honestly, tempting.

The people standing in the middle of both trends—the frontline managers who must explain the switch, catch the boundary problems, and answer the “Wait, am I even allowed to do this?” questions in real time—are the group companies have prepared the least.

That is a communication problem, and it’s ours to fix.

If managers don’t understand why the company moved off the model they spent six months championing, they can’t credibly explain it to their teams. They’ll either go silent, which breeds suspicion, or they’ll improvise, which is worse.

If managers don’t have clear guardrails explaining what kinds of AI-assisted work outside someone’s lane are acceptable and what kinds require a specialist’s involvement, they’ll either rubber-stamp everything or block everything. Neither option serves the business.

And if leadership training lags this far behind workforce adoption, managers become the bottleneck at exactly the moment the company needs them to be the translators and interpreters.

Here are three things I’d be pushing for internally right now:

First, build the change narrative for platform and model switches before you need it. Develop a plain-language explanation of why these decisions happen that managers can use without having to invent their own justification on the spot.

Second, give managers an actual decision framework for cross-boundary AI use. Provide a simple test for determining when an employee’s AI-assisted work needs specialist review so managers aren’t left guessing.

Third, take the Indeed numbers to leadership. Make the case that you can’t roll out AI training for the frontline while skipping the people who manage the frontline.

It’s the difference between an AI rollout that sticks and one that quietly falls apart at the manager layer.

Thanks for putting up with a lone voice again this week. With luck, Neville will be back in the saddle next week.

As I mentioned last week, Neville and I are set to have lunch in San Francisco on Thursday. It’s the first time we’ll have seen each other face-to-face in almost seven years, if I’m remembering correctly. I’m looking forward to that. Watch for photos.

And that’s a 30 for this episode of For Immediate Release.

The post FIR #524: Are Managers Ready to Lead an AI-Fluent Workforce? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

View Details

Neville has been ill and unable to record, so Shel is on his own in this episode (except for Dan York’s Tech Report). This shorter-than-usual monthly long-form episode includes reports on rethinking thought leadership, maintaining “brand sovereignty” in the AI era, and whether hedging in your communication can serve a useful purpose. Dan’s report was recorded in Vienna, Austria, where AI was front and center at the 126th meeting of the Internet Engineering Task Force. Dan also reports on Bluesky’s Attie AI feature, Instagram’s plans to charge for AI access, Beehiv’s new community feature, WordPress’s plans for version 7.1, and some UK social media regulatory updates.

xx

Links from this episode:

• How Marketers Should Rethink Thought Leadership
• Treat Thought Leadership as a Lasting Asset, Not a One-Off Campaign
• A 5-Step Framework for Genuine Thought Leadership
• Why thought leadership is no longer optional for tech companies
• The ROI of Thought Leadership
• CEO thought leadership can drive $367M in value
• Why Thought Leadership Is Failing — and How to Solve It
• Reclaiming Brand Sovereignty In The AI Era
• The paid brand mention problem in GEO
• Can Hedging Make You a Better Communicator?
• Effectively communicating uncertainty: The persuasive impact of different types of hedges
• The Role of Different Markers of Linguistic Powerlessness in Persuasion
• Hedges, Tag Questions, Message Processing, and Persuasion

Links from Dan York’s Tech Report

• Bluesky’s AI assistant Attie expands into an open social research tool
• Attie: AI for the Atmosphere
• Instagram will charge for AI access
• Newsletter platform Beehiiv now lets subscribers chat with each other, adds AI
• Roadmap to 7.1
• Investigation into TikTok’s compliance with duties to protect children from encountering harmful content under section 12

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR is tentatively scheduled to drop on Monday, August 24.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw Transcript:

Shel Holtz

It’s an unusual FIR episode today, with just me and three reports for this long-form installment.

Thought leadership isn’t what it used to be—or at least it shouldn’t be what it used to be. With AI summaries increasingly becoming the way people get the information they’re looking for, how do you maintain your brand’s sovereignty over the information that gets shared about it?

And do you hedge in your communications? There’s actually research into whether hedging is a good or a bad thing.

That’s what’s coming your way in this shorter-than-usual monthly long-form episode of For Immediate Release.

Hi, everybody, and welcome to episode number 523 of For Immediate Release. I’m Shel Holtz in Concord, California. This is our monthly long-form episode for July 2026, and I am on my own.

You may have noticed that we didn’t post a short midweek episode last week. Neville has been quite ill, with an infection in his chest and some other issues, some of them related to the ridiculously intense heat they have been suffering in England. It has kept him from being able to record.

He is planning a trip to the U.S.—here to the Bay Area, in fact. We are scheduled to have lunch on my birthday while he’s here, and right now he is focused on doing everything his doctor has told him to do so he can make that trip. That’s a decision I fully support.

It has been way too long since Neville and I have seen each other face to face in the same room. I am really, really looking forward to it. I hope you’ll join me in wishing him a speedy recovery.

Rather than skip this episode, I’ve decided to do it on my own. We used to do this fairly routinely back in the day, when both of us were full-time consultants and traveled a lot to meet with clients.

Frequently, one of us wouldn’t be available on the day we were recording. The other would record solo, or occasionally, if I had enough notice, I would find a guest co-host.

But today, you get just me.

At this point, we usually start with Neville providing a wrap-up of the episodes we’ve recorded since our last monthly long-form installment. I will take that on, along with a comment or two we have received related to those episodes.

Episode 520 was our long-form episode for June. It covered the PR meltdown that was going on among the big AI frontier labs.

There were five other topics, including one about Wowcher, a U.K. coupon company that sent an email with a promotional statement that upset just about everybody.

It was related to a young child who had been picked up and put into a crocodile enclosure and was in critical condition, the last I heard. Wowcher’s email said, “Snap up these deals quicker than a croc can catch a kid.”

Yes, if you didn’t hear the episode and you’re hearing this for the first time, this is not a joke. This is not The Onion. This was a real promotional message from the company, and it got hammered over it.

Tim Sutton left a comment saying:

“Your closing line is the whole thing, Shel. The ‘AI approved it’ defense itself is never enough. An approval step is not bureaucracy. It’s where a human asks the question no machine thinks to ask: How does this read on the worst possible day? Strip it out to move faster, and you have not saved time; you have removed the brake. I have seen the aftermath.”

Episode 521 focused on Ford rehiring people it had previously let go, ostensibly because AI would be able to do their jobs. AI was not able to do their jobs.

Rick Segal found it interesting that Microsoft, his alma mater from the 1990s, had decided to let the graybeards and their institutional knowledge walk out the door through early retirement rather than undertake the hard-core and honest “Oops, we overhired” cuts.

The decades of knowledge walking out Redmond’s door, he said, are going to be felt eventually.

Eric Carroll replied to Rick, saying:

“They will pay for replacing expertise with engines of mass satisficing. Just as you say, how long will the blast take to propagate? From what I am hearing and seeing, the return on misinvestment is way faster than I expected.”

Episode 522 was about Podcasting 2.0, a new set of protocols Adam Curry is working on with an engineering colleague named Dave Jones.

We talked about whether this would be good for podcasting and podcast listeners, the likelihood of widespread adoption, and some of the obstacles standing in its way.

Vincent Bruneau wrote:

“The slower-than-hoped-for adoption is the most interesting part of the Podcasting 2.0 story. Richer metadata, transcripts, chapters, and better accessibility are genuinely useful features. So why hasn’t it moved faster? That gap between good technology and actual adoption is always where the real communication lesson lives.”

Juraj Schaefer, a podcast producer and editor, wrote:

“Interesting perspective. As podcasting evolves, ownership, discoverability, and meaningful connections will become even more important.”

And Dakshina Senadheera, a podcast editor and manager, shared this thought:

“Interesting conversation, especially around keeping podcasting open while improving the listener experience.”

Thanks to everybody who commented on our previous episodes. You are always welcome to comment.

You can leave comments on LinkedIn, where we announce the episodes, as everybody whose comment I read today did.

You can also send us an audio or text comment by email at FIRComments@gmail.com. You can record a comment directly from the FIR website, FIRPodcastNetwork.com, by clicking the “Send Voicemail” button on the right-hand side of the screen.

Or you can leave a comment in our show notes. There are all kinds of ways you can comment and participate in the show.

I also want to let you know that the interview we did with Pete Blackshaw about the Answer Economy is now available.

It has been getting some really good reactions. People have found real value in this discussion about how AI answers are now the answers people are getting about your product, regardless of where the information the frontier models accumulated came from.

You can find that in FIR Interviews.

The latest episode of Circle of Fellows is also available. Episode 131 is about the evolving media landscape and what it means for media relations.

Our panelists included Diana Degan, a new IABC Fellow from the 2026 class of Fellows, along with Ned Lundquist, Martha Muzychka, and Jennifer Wah.

They talked about whom we reach out to when there are fewer reporters available to tell our stories through the mainstream and trade press we have been accustomed to.

The next episode, coming up on the third Thursday in August at 6 p.m. Eastern, is about AI and the kinds of pivots communicators will have to make as AI becomes a more widely used tool in the communication toolkit.

The panelists will be Bonnie Caver, Adrian Cropley, Theomary Karamanis, and Mike Klein. I’m looking forward to that.

Now I have three reports, as I usually do in the monthly long-form episode of FIR. You just don’t get three from Neville.

As I mentioned earlier, this is going to be a shorter episode than usual.

Two pieces landed in the search press recently that I think belong together, even though they were written a few weeks apart by people who probably weren’t talking to each other.

The first is by Bill Hunt at Search Engine Journal. Search Engine Journal has been around a long time and has been a great source of information about search and adjacent topics.

Hunt points out that, for 20 years, digital strategy meant driving people to webpages. We deliberately fragmented our information across dozens of pages, each optimized for a different stage of consideration.

The example Hunt uses is Ford and its F-150 pickup truck.

The homepage sells the lifestyle. Model pages introduce the trim levels. A configurator lets you picture yourself owning it. Feature pages handle towing and off-road performance. Specifications live even deeper in the site, next to regional offers and financing.

For a human being, that architecture is beautiful. Every page does a job.

For a machine, it’s just friction.

When an AI can’t find a dense, complete answer on your own domain, it doesn’t give up. It assembles the best answer it can from whatever is easiest to retrieve.

Consider the story that broke last week about an OpenAI model escaping from its sandbox and hacking its way into Hugging Face.

What was it looking for? It was looking for the answer sheet—the cheat sheet for the test it had been told to solve.

Rather than do the work to solve the test, it went hunting for the cheat sheet that had all the answers in one place.

That’s no different from this.

Hunt searched for the gas mileage of an F-150 Raptor. The AI Overview built its answer from Reddit, an automotive publisher, and a local dealership. It never touched the Ford website.

Ford has that number. Ford has every number.

Gemini just found it easier to assemble an answer from somewhere else where all that information was in one place.

Hunt calls the thing you’re trying to protect “brand sovereignty”: your ability to remain the authoritative source about your own products, services, and expertise, no matter where the answer eventually gets delivered.

He is emphatic that this is not a search engine optimization problem. It is a governance problem, because no single team owns the whole picture.

Product information, documentation, customer support, legal policy, and commerce are all owned by different parts of the organization. All of them shape how your organization gets represented, and they have been evolving independently for years.

His summary line is one I would hang on my wall: Your website is no longer your digital asset. Your knowledge is.

Communicators have spent 30 years arguing that the corporate website is the front door.

Hunt’s case is that the front door is now a machine reading whatever knowledge it can find. If yours is scattered across content management systems, PDFs, and support portals, the machine will find the gaps—and it will fill them from Reddit.

Meanwhile, Gaetano DiNardi, writing in Search Engine Land—not Search Engine Journal, but another great, longstanding search-focused publication—looked at what is being sold to companies that want to fix exactly this problem.

Once the industry decided that off-site brand mentions drive AI visibility, a market miraculously appeared to sell them. He audited several highly rated vendors selling brand-mention services.

What they are selling turns out to be variations on one thing: renting space on websites nobody reads.

Some of it involves placement on what the SEO world calls private blog networks. These are clusters of sites that exist for no purpose except to sell mentions and links to whoever is willing to pay for them.

DiNardi found those going for 10 to 15 times what a comparable link cost in the old SEO market.

Some of it involves placement on sites with no actual subject-matter focus.

One example he cites has a page about learning-management software sitting alongside listicles ranking the best crypto wallets. That is basically a billboard that will print anything.

Some of it is Reddit astroturfing.

Agencies use what are called aged accounts—profiles built up over months so they look like real community members—and use them to post brand mentions in subreddits that have nothing to do with the brand.

Those posts are frequently removed within 30 days for violating community rules, which tells you exactly what the communities make of them.

Then there are the mechanics.

There is a Slack workflow. The agency generates a placement opportunity. A junior marketing assistant with no way to evaluate whether the publisher is legitimate approves a fee.

In DiNardi’s example, that fee is $250 to add the mention. The agency pays the publisher and then invoices the client to recover it, on top of the retainer.

The Federal Trade Commission’s endorsement guides—and that is a U.S. agency, so these are applicable only in the U.S.—require clear disclosure of paid placements.

These pages generally are not updated to say that the mention was purchased.

Lily Ray, who is quoted in the piece, says this is another evolution of spammy link-building. We have seen this movie before, going back to Google’s first Penguin update in 2012.

The reason it appears to work right now is that large language model citation systems are still immature compared with Google’s spam detection.

Volume from low-quality sources may be rewarded in ways it would not be in old-school search.

DiNardi puts that window at perhaps one to two years before the platforms build countermeasures. He also notes that marketers chasing volume may be confusing the models about their own entities in the process.

Here is why I mashed these two stories together: They are the legitimate and illegitimate answers to exactly the same question.

Who controls what the machine says about us?

One answer says: Organize your knowledge so you are the most useful source available.

The other says: Pay strangers to say your name.

The first is a governance project, and it is the one you should be focusing on rather than waiting to be invited to participate.

Nobody else in the building has responsibility for how the organization is represented as a whole. That is within the purview of the communication function.

The second is going to show up on your desk as a pitch or proposal, probably coming from the marketing department, probably with a persuasive percentage attached to it, along with a deadline.

When it does, the questions you should ask are the old ones.

Is it disclosed?

Would we be comfortable if a reporter published the invoice?

Are we buying a spot on a page that also sells spots to our competitors?

We spent a couple of decades getting pay-for-play out of media relations. I would hate to watch us import it into AI visibility just because the metric is new.

Dan York

Greetings, Shel, Neville, and FIR listeners all around the world. It’s Dan York coming at you from Vienna, Austria, where I’ve been attending the 126th meeting of the Internet Engineering Task Force, or IETF.

These are the engineers and others who make the internet work through all the various protocols—HTTP, email, and all those kinds of things.

One of the big topics this week, of course, was AI. There were a number of sessions looking at what kind of work needs to be done.

For instance, in a world where everybody talks about “agentic, agentic, agentic, agentic,” do we need new protocols for communicating when an agent goes to book airfare and interact with all sorts of systems? Are new protocols needed?

Part of the genius of the internet is that it is built from small building blocks that can be used to do things and then reused in many different ways.

One of the things people are finding is that many of the existing protocols work well. But we are still trying to figure out, in this new world, what is happening and what new things are needed.

One thing happening in the standards world is the same thing we are seeing throughout the rest of the communication world: a lot of slop.

There is a positive side to this. The IETF conducts all of its work and develops all of its standards in English. If you are not an English speaker, or English is not your primary language, it can be challenging to help create new standards.

Back in the early 2000s, before we had all these new tools, I helped some people for whom English was not their primary language. It was painful because they were trying to create standards and describe how they worked, but their English was difficult to read. I helped them improve it.

Now, with these tools, people can contribute in English. They can put their material into the large language model of their choice and get good English back in the format of an internet draft or standard.

That is the positive side. Suddenly, millions or billions more people around the world are able to participate in the standards process in English.

The negative side, of course, is that people are generating so many contributions that they take a long time to triage. This creates a tremendous amount of work for reviewers, leaders within the IETF, and others. Everything is taking much longer.

We have seen this in many other areas. Put up a job advertisement and you get a bazillion applications. Publish a blog post and you get a ton of comments. All these things are happening.

One thing I had not paid as much attention to was the fact that all these email tools now have a feature that says, essentially, “Write a better email.”

People are using that feature, turning what might have been short, not particularly well-worded emails into big, voluminously long messages. That is generating a lot more traffic on the email lists people use within the IETF.

It gets us back to the situation we have seen many times: You have five bullets, feed them into an LLM, and it generates a long block of text. Then the text is too long for someone to read, so they use another LLM to turn it back into five bullets.

There we are, with the snake eating its tail.

There have been a lot of interesting conversations. We’ll see where all this goes.

Speaking of AI, a couple of other things have happened in the broader industry.

First, you may or may not have noticed that Bluesky announced Attie—A-T-T-I-E—its AI assistant. It started as something you could use to build social feeds within the Atmosphere, the broader AT Protocol ecosystem.

You could use Attie to create these feeds. Bluesky has now announced that it is expanding Attie into more of a chatbot that you can ask for information and news from across the broader Bluesky network—the Atmosphere, as it is called.

I don’t have access yet. I’m on the waiting list.

They say these are not chats. They are “quests.” Yes, you heard that right. They are quests—a new way to explore the Atmosphere.

You could ask questions such as, “What’s trending in my network today?” “Who’s worth following in climate tech?” or “Put together a daily briefing on indie game development.”

We will have to see what this looks like, how it works, and all those kinds of things. But it is another example of AI coming into the Bluesky space.

AI systems, of course, cost money to operate. Instagram chief Adam Mosseri has said this is really expensive and that the company will eventually have to throttle people or ask them to pay.

If you are a communicator who has been using Instagram’s built-in AI to generate campaign content, create images, or perform similar tasks, casual use is still free right now.

At some point, however, if you use it at high volume, you will probably wind up being charged for credits or have to take those costs into account.

Stay tuned on that.

Switching to newsletters—but remaining on the subject of AI—Beehiiv, B-E-E-H-I-I-V, one of Substack’s competitors, had a major release this month.

It rolled out something called Communities, which lets you create a community around your newsletter that people can join, where they can chat with one another and do those kinds of things.

At the same time, Beehiiv added AI components, including an AI assistant that can help you examine your content and subscribers, particularly on the administrative side.

Again, we are seeing more AI appearing in different places.

Speaking of AI—as that seems to be the theme of my report this month—I’ll also tell you that WordPress 7.1 is currently scheduled to arrive on August 19, before my next report. The timing aligns with WordCamp US here in the States.

The release will bring a number of new features, including more of the collaboration functionality that was part of the original plan for WordPress 7.0.

It will include notes and other features, along with more collaboration and AI elements. That is coming on August 19.

Finally, let me close with a policy topic.

The U.K.’s Ofcom is pursuing two different initiatives. It has announced a forthcoming ban on anyone under 16 using social media. I’m not entirely sure what that means in practice.

It has also announced that it is investigating TikTok’s compliance because it does not believe the platform did enough to prevent people under 13 from using it.

This will be a test of the U.K.’s law, so we will see where it goes when it reaches the courts.

There is also a proposal under which people younger than 16 would be banned from social media, while 16- and 17-year-olds would somehow magically be blocked from using social media between midnight and 6 a.m.

It remains to be seen how any of that can be turned into reality.

The other problem people have pointed out is that all you are doing is blocking children from seeing some of the harmful material. You are not actually getting rid of the terrible content on the internet.

Everybody else is still exposed to it, including seniors and others who may have as many issues and challenges with it—if not more—than some of the young people in that space.

Anyway, that’s all from here, Shel. I think I’ll go get some Wiener schnitzel and a beer.

Until next month, that’s all. Back to you.

Bye for now.

Shel Holtz

Thanks, Dan. I really enjoyed that report. I was particularly struck by two of the items that you reported on. The first was Addy for Blue Sky. I just really like the idea of using AI this way within social networks. That would come in so handy if I could do that with, say, LinkedIn, rather than use the current search tool, which is fundamentally worthless unless I’m just looking for a person.

Or a company, but if I’m looking for threads around certain topics, it’s really tough, and something like that would be very useful. I’m not on Bluesky enough to really make a difference, but you know, on LinkedIn, maybe even Facebook, that would be awesome. Maybe they’ll pay attention to this and follow suit. Also, beehive with the communities, I think, is terrific because building a community around a newsletter can be tough.

And I think this might signal a way that Substack and Ghost and the others might be able to play in that space. So it was all interesting, Dan, but those were the two that stood out for me.

We talk about thought leadership from time to time on FIR. It has been a tried-and-true content marketing tool for a long time.

It has also been a source of some cynicism.

A stack of research has landed over the past few months that says two things at once: Thought leadership is producing measurable financial value, and most of what organizations are publishing under the label of thought leadership is utterly worthless.

Since two things can be true at the same time, both of those things are true.

The gap between them is where the opportunity lies for those of us who do this kind of work.

Let me start with the number from Axios that got my attention in the first place.

In April, Axios reported on a study from a firm called Cardinal 40 that found high-quality CEO thought leadership was associated with an average of $367 million in shareholder value in a single week.

Here is how the researchers got to that number.

They analyzed more than 1,000 examples of CEO thought leadership from S&P 500 companies and measured each against abnormal stock returns, deliberately excluding anything tied to market-moving news or disclosures.

They were trying to isolate the effect of the words themselves.

Then they did something really interesting.

They tested more than 60 common writing traits—tone, readability, and the kinds of things we all obsess over when we are editing copy.

They found nothing that explained why some pieces outperformed.

So they used AI, because of course they did.

They compared each document with a curated canon of genuinely standout thought leadership and found that communications that sat semantically closer to that canon were associated with stronger returns.

The gap between top-tier and bottom-tier thought leadership worked out to about a nine-tenths-of-a-percentage-point swing in stock performance the following week.

For the biggest companies, that is not a rounding error.

The report estimates as much as $25 billion across the Magnificent Seven—the seven megacap U.S. technology companies: Nvidia, Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, and Tesla.

The research also found that more thought leadership does not produce more value.

Weak or low-quality communications correlated with neutral or negative outcomes. In the age of AI slop, volume is not merely useless. It can cost you.

Compare that with The Harris Poll’s research on the ROI of thought leadership.

Nine in 10 executives say thought leadership is critical to building authority, and only 20 percent say theirs is actually effective.

Executives in that study estimated a 14-times return on investment, and Fortune 100 executives put the annual value at about $3.6 million.

I need to hedge here a little.

The Harris fieldwork was conducted in May 2022 among 500 U.S. employees at the director level or above. It is still being cited in 2026 as though it is fresh, and it is not.

Second—and this applies across the board—nearly every organization publishing research on the value of thought leadership sells thought leadership.

Harris has a thought-leadership practice. IBM’s Institute for Business Value is a thought-leadership shop. Cardinal 40 evaluates thought leadership for a living.

That does not invalidate the work, but it should temper any enthusiasm you feel about the research.

For what it is worth, IBM’s research is the most consistent of the batch.

Eighty-eight percent of executives consume thought leadership, 87 percent say it shaped a purchase decision within the previous 90 days, and about half of C-suite leaders credit it with driving revenue growth.

One more data point from the Axios piece is something I cannot stop thinking about.

Mentions of “storytelling,” “narrative,” and “storyteller” on corporate earnings and investor calls are up 65 percent since 2020, according to AlphaSense.

The language of our discipline has migrated into the language of capital markets.

It is important to treat the dollar figures as directional rather than literal. Correlation is doing a lot of work in these studies.

Coherent, original executive communication may well be a proxy for a well-run company rather than a cause of its performance.

But the through line across all this research is consistent, and it is the one you can actually act on: Quality is doing the work, and quantity is doing damage.

If the value is real, why is only 20 percent of it working?

The Content Marketing Institute brought together a group of practitioners in July to work through exactly that question: Jill Roberson from Dataweavers, Andrea Ames from Eaton, Lindsey Hagen from Conductor, and the Content Marketing Institute’s own Robert Rose, one of my favorite people to read and listen to.

I love This Old Marketing with Robert Rose and Joe Pulizzi.

Jill Roberson made a point that stood out for me: We have to reset expectations for what thought leadership even is.

Hagen’s point was that the bar has simply risen.

You have to be useful and unique now, and the standard for what qualifies as valuable is much higher than it was.

Roberson recommended putting the hypothesis at the beginning of a thought-leadership piece and making it unmistakable, then delivering on it immediately.

If people are not getting the insight they came for, and getting it quickly, they are gone.

But delivering quickly is not the same as creating quickly.

Ames’s advice was to slow down and be genuinely intentional about the topic.

Robert Rose made the observation that I suspect a lot of you have been waiting for someone senior to say out loud: Our industry has convinced itself that speed is its foundational value, and it just isn’t.

Then there is gating.

Ames said Eaton does not require contact information for its content. There are no forms you have to fill out before you get the download link.

Her reasoning is the reasoning of 2026: She wants large language models to be able to include Eaton’s thought-leadership pieces in the results they produce.

Being exclusionary, she argues, mostly hurts you.

That means the lead-capture form—which has always been a tax on distribution—is now also a tax on being cited by the systems your buyers are querying before they ever contact you.

The Content Marketing Institute also ran a piece in the fall by Abid Rahman, written with Kate Houston, who runs executive thought leadership at Amazon Web Services.

Their diagnosis is pretty blunt.

AI can draft, polish, and structure this content with remarkable efficiency, but it cannot supply credibility, lived experience, or judgment.

It reads as though anyone could have prompted it because anyone could have prompted it.

They offer three ingredients for the real thing.

The first is credible experience.

I talk about “genuine lived experience” somewhat derisively because I read people on LinkedIn saying, “AI has no lived experience,” and then I look at the kinds of things they are writing, which required absolutely no lived experience.

But in the case of thought leadership, it really does matter.

You have to have credible experience to support your ability to make these proclamations.

You also need a genuine audience need and an insight that not many other people can provide.

Then you apply a five-step framework: Define the goal. Choose the focus. Shape between one and three core themes. Build a voice ecosystem of leaders, customers, and advocates who actually have some standing. And map the stories to the right channels.

Their measurement point is one I would like to tattoo on a few people’s foreheads: Thought leadership is not an engine for marketing-qualified leads.

In one of their programs, they do not blast out content at all. They put a CEO in credible venues.

Under those circumstances, brand awareness among the ideal customer profile rose from 17 percent to 51 percent in one year, and request-for-proposal volume increased three-and-a-half times.

Could they attribute a single article to a single lead?

Of course not.

That is the honest answer most of us should be giving.

Now, a different angle.

Yogesh Shah, writing in Entrepreneur—and this goes back to January—argues that the problem is not the thinking. It is the container.

We are in a zero-click world. Audiences do not leave the platform they are on.

Roughly 90 percent of decision-makers say they are more receptive to companies producing high-quality thought leadership, yet engagement keeps declining anyway.

His question is: If a report can be summarized in ChatGPT in seconds, why would anyone read it?

His answer is what he calls experiential thought leadership.

Turn the insight into something people are in rather than something they open.

Think of a live discussion, a workshop-style webinar, a tightly curated roundtable, or a podcast that puts listeners inside a recognizable scenario instead of offering an expert monologue.

He is emphatic that this does not require a large budget. It requires one well-designed moment in which attention is protected.

You can see the tension between these two pieces of advice.

The Content Marketing Institute says to slow down and do the deep work. Entrepreneur says the document is the wrong delivery mechanism.

I do not think those ideas conflict.

There is a line in a Savanta piece from June that I think captures the entire argument in 12 words: You can replicate a product, but you can’t copy a point of view.

The case study from the author of that piece, Matthew Mott, is aimed at technology companies, but I think it applies elsewhere.

A competitor can reverse-engineer your features, match your pricing, copy your positioning, and even hire your people.

What it cannot copy is a track record of saying interesting things that turned out to be correct.

That builds slowly, and it compounds.

His second observation is that buyers cannot really evaluate an AI product.

The technology is opaque, and every vendor’s claims sound alike. Buyers stop assessing the product and start assessing the people behind it, looking for evidence of judgment.

They are conducting that assessment before they ever talk to you.

The sales conversation does not start from zero. It starts from whatever reputation you have already built.

He also argues that relatively few companies are publishing practical, original research on AI right now.

Most of what exists is either so hedged that it is useless or so optimistic that it is not credible.

In a few years, everyone will have a program, and standing out will cost far more.

So, if you are already publishing thought leadership or planning to, what does all this mean for you?

I have a list.

Of course I have a list.

First, audit your top pieces from last quarter and apply the swap test.

If a competitor could have published the same piece with its logo on it, you did not produce thought leadership. You just cranked out content.

Second, find your proprietary data.

This is where I think communicators sell themselves short.

You have more than you think: your own operational data, customer-service logs, field observations, and the ability to conduct surveys.

Survey your employees. Survey your customers. Survey the industry.

The Content Marketing Institute’s Jasmine Williams makes the case for treating thought leadership as a platform rather than a campaign.

One flagship study becomes the hub, and articles, webinars, sales enablement, and employee advocacy become the spokes.

That is a repeatable model.

Third, put the thesis in the first 60 seconds.

Not the context. Not the setup.

Put the claim in the first 60 seconds.

Fourth, reopen the gating conversation and reframe it.

It is no longer lead capture versus reach. It is lead capture versus being cited by the machines your buyers consult first.

Segment your library.

Some assets should stay gated because a download genuinely signals buying intent. But your flagship research probably should not be among them.

Fifth, take one asset you published this year and turn it into an experience: a roundtable, a working session, or a recorded session with someone who disagrees with you.

I think we call that a debate.

Sixth, change what you are measuring—and change it before someone asks you to defend it.

Measure speaking invitations. Measure journalists citing your framework. Measure analysts referencing your numbers. Measure employees sharing the work without being asked.

Denise Brosseau of the Thought Leadership Lab calls the underlying discipline “stick-to-itiveness”: the willingness to keep showing up long enough for any of that to accumulate.

Seventh, protect the executive’s actual voice.

This is the piece only we can do.

AI is a genuinely useful accelerant. It can turn an interview into an article, sharpen the structure, and catch the flabby paragraph.

What it cannot do is have a point of view.

If your CEO’s byline reads like a competent prompt response, you put your CEO’s and your company’s credibility at risk.

Let me end this segment with a little history.

The term “thought leader” is generally credited to a fellow named Joel Kurtzman, who was editing Strategy+Business back in 1994.

He meant something specific: someone addressing the questions senior executives were actually wrestling with.

More than 30 years later, the term has become a punchline.

It became one because we industrialized it. We turned a description of rare people into a content category with a production quota.

The research that came out this year is essentially the market telling us it can still tell the difference—and that it is willing to pay for the real thing.

That is not a bad position for communicators to be in, is it?

Now for another awkward transition to my final report.

I’m going to end with something a little lighter, although there is a real point buried in it.

Knowledge at Wharton wrote up a new research study published in the Journal of Consumer Psychology titled “Effectively Communicating Uncertainty: The Persuasive Impact of Different Types of Hedges.”

You know hedges: “That could work.” “That might be a good approach.”

We all hedge.

Yet most communication training treats hedging as a bug to be trained out of us.

Jonah Berger’s research team ran seven studies and split hedging into two dimensions.

The first is likelihood.

Is your hedge low-probability—“might,” “could,” or “it feels like”—or higher-probability—“likely,” “should,” or “arguably”?

The second is perspective.

Is the hedge floating free, as in, “It sounds like”? Or is it attached to a human being, as in, “In my opinion,” or “It sounds likely to me”?

All seven studies agreed: Higher-likelihood hedges and personal-perspective hedges are more persuasive because they make the speaker seem more confident.

Berger’s example is a mechanic saying, “The repair might work,” versus, “I believe this repair will solve the problem.”

Both statements convey uncertainty, but they have a completely different effect.

The personal version means someone is taking ownership.

Berger describes this as a communication sweet spot. You get the protection of not overclaiming without paying the credibility tax.

It is important to point out that the effect weakened when the communicator was a brand rather than a person, because confidence mattered less.

That is one more argument for having actual humans deliver your message.

I went looking for research that either supports or contradicts this, and it turns out the findings land right between two camps that do not agree.

On one side are decades of work on what is called powerless language: hedges, hesitations, and tag questions.

This research suggested that hedges may be the most damaging of all the powerless markers.

Researchers found something genuinely alarming: When a topic mattered to people, powerless markers did not merely make the speaker less appealing. They flattened the arguments.

Strong arguments performed no better than weak ones once the hedges were added.

On the other side are the uncertainty-communication researchers.

Researchers at the University of Cambridge’s Winton Centre have spent years studying how to convey uncertainty in facts and numbers.

Another study involving more than 10,000 participants found that putting a numeric uncertainty range around COVID statistics slightly reduced trust in the number itself but had no effect whatsoever on trust in the source.

Being candid cost the communicator nothing.

A meta-analysis published this year finds the overall effect small and highly dependent on how uncertainty is expressed, with verbal hedges doing more damage than numbers.

Put all of this together, and here is my take: The problem was never uncertainty. It is vagueness.

Saying, “Here is what we know, here is what we do not know, and here is what would change my mind,” reads as confidence.

Mumbling, “It could go sort of either way,” reads as evasion.

It is the same actual state of knowledge, but the way it is expressed produces the opposite effect.

I would argue that this matters more for us now than it has in years, because the machines drafting our first drafts hedge constantly—and they hedge in the weak way: low likelihood, no perspective, and nobody’s name attached.

You may have noticed that Neville and I hedge our way through every episode of this podcast.

We say things like, “This is correlation, and correlation is not causation.” We say that you should treat a figure as directional.

We note, as I did just a few minutes ago, that a survey being cited is four years old.

It turns out that hedging might have been the right call.

Or let me try that again.

In my view, that was almost certainly the right call.

I would love to tell you when the next monthly episode will be, but Neville and I have not settled on that yet.

Nor do I know when he will be up for recording a short midweek episode.

I may do one solo. We’ll see how it goes. We’ll see what kind of news or research crosses the transom.

Until I get answers to all those questions, that will be a 30 for this episode of For Immediate Release.

The post FIR #523: No Brand Is An Island appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Local newsrooms keep shrinking, journalism schools keep closing their doors, and the reporters who remain are stretched thinner than ever. For organizational communicators, that shift changes the math on media relations. It’s no longer enough to know how to write a pitch. You need to understand who’s left to receive it, what standards still govern their work, and how to build the kind of relationship that gets your story told well instead of not at all.

Circle of Fellows #131 features four IABC Fellows with deep backgrounds in journalism and media relations. Moderated by Shel Holtz, SCMP, the panel discussed what’s changed in the newsroom, what hasn’t, and what it means for the way communicators do their jobs.

The panel dug into what that means day to day for communicators, including:

• Thinking local and strategic. Where does your story actually need to go, and which relationships and networks get it there?
• Knowing journalistic standards and principles (JSPs). Understanding what reporters can and can’t do — and where the real limits are — makes for smarter pitches and fewer frustrated calls.
• Respecting deadlines and information needs. How communicators and journalists can work together, rather than at cross purposes, to produce the stories both sides actually want.
• Getting to know the people in your “journalism ‘hood.” In a shrunken media landscape, personal relationships with the reporters who remain matter more than ever.

About the panel:

Diana Degan, IABC Fellow, ABC, CAAP, BAAJ, is the founder of Diana Degan & Associates. Diana is an award-winning communication leader, educator, and strategic advisor whose 35-year career has strengthened communication practice, elevated professional standards, and advanced human-centered communication across Canada and beyond. She has led work spanning the full spectrum of the profession, from strategic planning, brand development, and integrated marketing communications to crisis communications, stakeholder engagement, internal communications, and accessibility-focused communication design.

Edward “Ned” Lundquist is a retired U.S. Navy captain with 43 years of professional public affairs and strategic communications experience. His company, Echo Bridge LLC, which provides outreach and advocacy support to government and commercial clients. He served on active duty for 24 years in the U.S. Navy as a surface warfare officer and public affairs specialist. Captain Lundquist was a Pentagon spokesman with the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs, Director of the Fleet Home Town News Center, and director of public affairs and corporate communications for the Navy Exchange Service Command. His last tour of duty was commanding the 450 men and women of the Naval Media Center. He is an accredited business communicator and award-winning communicator who served as president of IABC/Hampton Roads and IABC/Washington, director of U.S. District 3, and chair of the International Accreditation Council. He was named an IABC Fellow in 2016. Captain Lundquist received the Surface Navy Association’s Special Recognition Award in January of this year, for his service on SNA’s executive committee and chair of the SNA communications committee. He writes for numerous naval, maritime, and defense publications and chairs and presents at communications, naval, and maritime security conferences around the world.

Martha Muzychka, ABC, MC, speaks, writes, listens, and helps others do the same to make change happen. Martha is a strategic, creative problem solver seeking challenging communications environments where we can make a difference. She helps her clients navigate competing priorities and embrace communication challenges. Martha offers strategic planning, facilitation, consultation services, writing and editing, qualitative research, and policy analysis. Her work has been recognized locally, nationally, and internationally with multiple awards.

Jennifer Wah, MC, ABC, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. With more than two dozen awards for strategic communications, writing, and consulting, Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare and academia to financial services and the resource sector, and is passionate about the strategic use of storytelling to support business outcomes. Although she has delivered workshops and training throughout her career, Jennifer formally added teaching to her experience in 2013, first with Royal Roads University and more recently as an adjunct professor of business communications with the UBC Sauder School of Business, where she now works part-time to impart crucial communication skills on the next generation of business leaders. When she is not working, Jennifer spends her time cooking, walking her dog, Orion, or discussing food, hockey, or music with her husband and two young adult children in North Vancouver, Canada.

Raw Transcript

Uh, hi everybody, and welcome to episode number 131 of Circle of Fellows. Uh, this is the monthly panel discussion featuring usually four fellows of the International Association of Business Communicators talking about topics of interest to communicators, especially those pursuing certification or looking to, uh, further themselves along their career paths. And we have a topic that should resonate with a lot of communicators today, especially those engaged in media relations, uh, and that is the shifting landscape of media, uh, and media relations, and have four great panelists to discuss this. Before, uh, we get to their introductions, I’ll let you know who I am. Hi, I’m Kjell Holst. I am senior director of communications at Webcor, a commercial general contractor headquartered in San Francisco and operating throughout California. Uh, I’m also the vice chair of the Global Communication Certification Council, which explains that little SCMP that you see after my name. And, uh, if you are watching live, I hope that you will participate in the conversation. The best way to do that through YouTube is just to, uh, use that live commenting feature. I’ll see it here, and I will be able to share that on the screen, and always nice to be able to digress, uh, to answer a question from somebody who’s watching in real time. Uh, and with that, let’s meet the panel, starting with Diana. Hi. Hi, Kjell. Thanks for having me today. Thrilled to be here with my illustrious, uh, group of, uh, other people, f- other fellows. So I am an IABC fellow. I am a, a IABC Canada Master Communicator. I’m based in Guelph, Ontario, um, just an hour west of Toronto. I am the founder of Diana Deegan & Associates, and I am also a professor at Conestoga College, teaching, um, a number of different, um, communications and, um, public relations and marketing courses. Great. And a special welcome to you, Diana. You are a member of the 2026 class of fellows. I am. I am. Thank you very much. So exciting. So exciting. Martha, you’re up. Hi there. Thanks for having me. It’s always a pleasure. I’m actually the, in the far east of Canada, in Newfoundland and Labrador. I run my own consultancy in strategic communi- communications and policy research, and I also teach communications and writing skills with the local business center at the university, Memorial University of Newfoundland Thanks, Martha. Ned? Uh, good day, everybody. Uh, I’m Ned Lundquist. Uh, I’m an accredited business communicator and an IBC fellow. I’m a retired naval officer, and my wife likes to tell me that I’m retired, period, at this point. Uh, I still have, uh, a few clients. I still do some writing. Uh, just attended a conference on maritime security and safety in, of all places, St. John’s. And, uh, Martha and her husband, John, scooped me up and, uh, I got a whirlwind tour of, uh, the far eastern segment of Atlantic Canada. It was fascinating. So, uh, Kjell and I and, uh, Jennifer go way back. Diana, uh, is, uh, a new colleague that I haven’t connected with, but, uh, as a fellow fellow, I’m sure we will going forward. So Kjell, thanks for doing this, and thanks for having me. Well, thanks for being here, Ned. And Jennifer? Hi. I’m in North Vancouver, Canada, and I’m pleased to be here today on a warm summer day. Um- Mm … I’m also an SCMP. Uh, I’m proud of that certification, and, um, really happy to have some listeners here who are pursuing certification. Uh, I specialize in strategic storytelling as a consultant, and, um, like, like many of you, also teach at the Sauder School of Business, uh, business communications to, uh, to business school students. I love that intersection of business and communications, which is, of course, something we’ve all, we’ve, we’ve all been working toward and uplifting for a long time. Looking forward to today’s discussion. It’ll be a great discussion, Jennifer. Thanks. And, you know, um, in, in my early days doing media relations, uh, whether it was for an employer or after I moved into consulting, uh, for a client, it was pretty routine to hear somebody say, “I want the front page of The Wall Street Journal,” or- “I, I wanna be here,” or, “I wanna be there.” And that was the remit, right? That was what you set out to do, at least to get them good coverage that could show them that they moved the needle. And you had built relationships with reporters at the various, uh, mainstream media publications and trade publications and the like. Uh, and you knew how to pitch, you knew how to do a targeted press release distribution, and you got that coverage. Not so easy today with these media outlets constricting, uh, considerably and, and many of them vanishing. Although it was interesting, I just read that I think it’s The New York Times is opening a local newspaper in Minneapolis, so we may see a new model emerging here- Wow if there’s revenue, uh, that they can derive from that. But, uh, for now, uh, it’s a challenge to earn that third media coverage. Third media or, you know, uh, earned media coverage is, is critical, uh, if we’re going to show up in AI search results, the, the overviews and the research results and the like, uh, because, uh, I’ve seen data that says 85% of what, uh, the AEO and GEO engines are producing come from earned media, only about 12 or 13% from a, a, a, a brand website. So we have challenges in front of us. So let me, let me start by asking you, you know, what’s changed most fundamentally? When we, when we say that media relations has changed, which change matters most? Is it, is it the loss of journalism, journalists? Uh, is it the collapse of, of newsroom business models? The, the fragmentation of audiences? Something else? What are you seeing out there? Well, I’ll jump in. Uh, my, my feeling is that, uh, we’re, we’ve lost a whole segment of, I’ll call it local media. Uh, small town papers, small town dailies and weeklies, uh, sec- sec- uh, supplements, uh, with local news in the large papers. Uh, so I’m not exactly sure where people go for that news. I know there are online sites that provide local news, but I, I just think we’ve lost a whole tier of connectivity to connect citizens with, with government, with business, uh, uh, with things to do. I, I don’t think that people are going to the web to fi- uh, to these new, uh, sites. They’re, they’re just browsing and, and finding what they can anywhere, kinda hit or miss. I agree, Ned. It’s been a huge loss to see the decrease in the small town papers, because one of the best things I found with my media relations work was connecting those editors with local people on the issues that I was trying to promote. And being able to provide local content, local contacts, um, and that local context was really critical, uh, to the success, because you don’t want to always just having, coming from head office or the principal city, because, uh, sometimes there are resentments that all the news gets funneled one way. And, uh, it also meant that people could see in different areas how the story could play out depending on that regional context Yeah, I would, I would agree. Um On the, on the community news reporting, uh, element of things, uh, we had a tragic event here just in, in my community, which is not a small town, uh, this week, and what I noticed was that in the absence of, um, hyper-local reporting, so in other words, metro-wide reporting was existing, that nuances around the community that I live in were… went missing. So, you know, the name of the shopping center where the, where the tragedy happened, um, the, uh, you know, even the way that streets were referenced and businesses were referenced. Those kinds of things became slight inaccuracies that added up to a broader sense of, you know, if you’re in that community, kind of go, “Okay, well this doesn’t feel… This doesn’t pass the sniff test.” Um, right through to, uh, you know, important things like traffic reports and, um, and, and those kinds of things. We, a local, I’m sure as in, as in many markets, uh, we had the news a couple of weeks ago of, um, several local radio stations shutting down that are all serving local, local markets. And, um, so that amalgamation and consolidation continues to really shape the way our communities and, and the way our communities show up and the way we show up with each other. I was gonna bring up that point, Jennifer, and um, and it was all the r- it was five Rogers stations across Canada were shut down, and at one of them was the Kitchener station, which is right next door to where I live and, and has a huge impact on this entire area because it was a major radio station, and the outcry locally was huge. So many of the community members were so upset that this station had closed down because it had been around for a very long time and had a very, um, long history in the area, and everybody was outraged. And this goes to how the business model has changed for so many of these, uh, for the media, um, and how that, uh, corporately is changing journalism, right? And that the reason these, I mean, it was so coincidental that this happened the day after Rogers announced that they were buying back a lot of the stock and taking over the Rogers entertainment and sports, uh, franchises. And so, well, look at that. They do this one day, and the next day all of these stations are being closed. And you can’t look at that and go, “These, this is not an isolated situation. These are tied together.” And so there was a lot of outcry going on because of the effect that it has on the daily lives of a lot of these people because of the communication, because of what is, um, the role that these network, uh, networks, that the papers, that the radio stations all play for the communities that they’re in. My community, Guelph, does not have a, a printed daily paper anymore, and we’re not a small community. What had d- has cropped up in the meantime are two online newspapers. Um, what is interesting is that this week, um, because I’ve got my eyes open because we were talking about doing this podcast today, Village Media, which is based, uh, out of, uh, northern Ontario, um, announced that they’re launching 15 local newspapers in the United States along with the Knight Foundation. So they’re taking this model of being online, and they’re now taking it into the United States because it has done so well here in Ontario. So that was really interesting because it is a not-for-profit organization, a charitable organiz- that is providing the funding, and they’re going into, I think it’s three states, uh, Wisconsin being one of them, in, in the US. Um, because they’re recognizing that a lot of these smaller communities don’t have anything anymore. The media are being pulled from these communities. Uh, so it is, there’s a lot of changes that are happening that are robbing the communities of the information that they have traditionally had. I’d like to just add to that when we’re talking about radio stations, and I think it’s true for TV and, and, uh, and print, but particularly with radio, there are companies that are buying up. There’s no restriction, uh, for how many, uh, media outlets you can own anymore in the United States. So we have companies that are just buying up all the licenses, uh, and they may be converting them all to, uh, the same format such as the K-LOVE format, which is now virtually in every market. And, uh, this has really had an impact on local jour- journalism and local programming i- uh, for, for, uh, radio, TV and, and print. Yeah, yeah. When the funding for public radio, public media was, was cut by Congress in the US, it didn’t put an end to NPR and PBS. What it did was it shut down, uh, small local, uh, stations, and a lot of those were in news deserts. It was the only access to local news that people had. And we have a comment from Brian Kilgore, uh, and, and he makes the point that wh- when, when you look at what space is available in the publications, a lot of it’s being fill- filled with what he says is, is repetitive politics. Uh, I, I subscribe to our local newspaper, the East Bay Times, uh, here in the San Francisco East Bay, and as I flip through it, it’s AP and it’s Reuters and it’s other wire copy. Uh, it’s from their affiliate partners with the, the New York Times and, and the Washington Post, which means that we’re not learning about what happened at the zoning commission. We’re not learning what happened at the school board, and I think that stuff is important. I don’t know how important it is from a media relations or a corporate communications standpoint, but, uh, yeah, I think from a democracy standpoint, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s absolutely critical. Um, I’ll tell you what I’m doing is I have, uh, s- set up, uh, a, a skill in Claude, the AI large language model, that scours all of the local government websites for both upcoming meetings and what they’re going to be talking about in the minutes of past meetings, and it builds me a little newspaper, uh, that I can read every day. It also covers things like where there’s gonna be street closures around me. Uh, it does a little police blotter. Um, I’m- I keep tweaking it, and one of these days I’m just gonna set it up so it automatically publishes to the web, not just to, uh, my Claude implementation where, where I can see it, uh, so that there is a local newspaper here that, that does cover that stuff. Um, just, you know, because I can. But y- it, with, with this introduction of, we’ve now heard of two, uh, Diana, what you mentioned and what I heard about The New York Times doing, it’s, it sounds like there’s a bit of a resurgence underway. Are, are there parts of the media ecosystem that are still healthy or, or at least healthier than, than people assume? You know, Shel, just to build on what you’re talking about, I do think this, uh, perhaps, um, uh, responsive rise in citizen, citizen journalism, uh, is probably the wrong terminology in this particular case, but what you’re describing. I mean, uh, like many of you, um, I’ve switched to following a lot of independent journalists. Um, and while that’s in response to shifts in the media, the media landscape to do with what you were talking about, Ned, that kind of broader ownership issue and the influences and independent thought, et cetera. I like the varied and diverse tone that that brings to my understanding of issues in a way that, um, in a way that is, uh, perhaps more insightful than I might have had previously. Now, is that sustainable? I have no idea, honestly, how some of these, in some cases, very well-respected, um, high-profile individuals are funding their independent ventures. But, um, but I do think it’s, uh, it’s not an unhealthy shift in terms of, again, that, uh, diversity of, of, um, presentation of thought. Uh, Shel, I just wanna add something to what Brian said. Thanks for listening, Brian. I know you’re our, our, our, our best patron. Uh, y- an, uh, a news hole abhors a vacuum, and so they’re gonna fill it with something. Uh, that’s why I’ve always said, uh, give ’em something, uh, ’cause sometimes they, they just need to plug a hole. But, uh, you’re, we’re all right. Th- there, there’s no longer the local, uh, budget, uh, going around for, for covering things like the school board and the city council and those types of things that… And, uh, that, that was a, a mission for local, uh, journalism for decades You know, and I’m saying, and h- that was always the reason for, um, local media, right? Like it was, they were always the reason th- why we had the local reporters and the local papers, was to make sure that they were there to cover off what was happening locally for politics, locally for, um, what was going on in your city so that you knew what was happening. My 85-year-old mother constantly talks about the fact that she is not computer literate, and quite frankly, I don’t want her on a computer because she’s been the victim of fraud several times now. Um, and I just know if she was on the computer it would be so much worse. Um, and sh- but she’s constantly saying, “I don’t have access to the news. I, I am not, I don’t know what is going on.” So she’s getting it through me, um, because there is no other way for her to get any information, um, because we don’t have a, a local newspaper anymore. And, um, because of that she’s not getting the information that is coming out about what’s going on in our city. Um, and there are a lot of other, um, vulnerable people in our society who are not getting the information ’cause they don’t have access to getting anything online because they don’t have, um, internet or, or what have you. And, you know, and that is a sign of democracy within, uh, a community and within our countries. Um, and if you don’t have that, how are you getting that information, right, about what is going on in your city? And nowadays it is so important to be making sure that you are getting true information, truthful information, and not misinformation. Um, and when you’re not getting that provided, how are you ensuring that what you are getting is proper information? Um, now the other side of that as well is that, um, there… When I’ve been doing media relations over the last couple years, one of the big changes that I have found is that publications that were always, um, you were able to talk to to get, uh, information to work with with your clients now all of a sudden are wanting money. You know? They are wanting advertising. You can only get a story if you are going to b- be buying advertising, and that has been the other change that I have found that, uh, shocking in some ways, um, because that was not what was happening prior. Um, and so that has been another business model shift that I have found that has happened. And Dia- Diana, you’re 100% right about that because, a- and, and when you have a publication that goes to pay to play, uh, I personally- Uh, view it as just a big, uh, publication of press releases, and I think a lot of other people do. So I think the journalism still has a place for professional journalists And, and it was not even, um… And it’s not because that’s not what they look like. If you’re reading it as a consumer, you would not know. I mean, there’s certain publications you look at and you go, “Okay, they’ve paid for that spot.” These are not publications that when you look at, and traditionally they were never that way, and when you’re looking at these publications, you’re not looking at it going, “Oh, they’ve paid for that, that placement.” Right? Uh, and it’s so disheartening to see that that is now what is happening. Um, and interesting enough as well, I was, um, scrolling through my Instagram, uh, on the weekend and came across, uh, She Would Be a Beauty Editor, and she had put a post up about how often now she is running into, um, PR people, um, from product companies saying, “Where’s my coverage? I sent you product. Where’s the coverage for the product I sent you?” And she’s going, “Hey, hey, wait a second here. You don’t automatically get coverage because I sent you… Because you sent me product. That’s not the way it, it works.” But this is a change with these expectations now because of social media. So, uh, it’s interesting, uh, th- how social media and influencers and have changed this dialogue as well. I, uh, I thought that was a r- really interesting comment to come from an editor, uh, at a, um, a beauty magazine as well with these expectations too. I would, I would say to them, “You gotta, you gotta give me more than just product. You gotta give me a real story with, you know, has news value.” Well, and it was interesting ’cause she actually said, “You don’t just get by sending me product. There actually has to be a reason. There has to be, you know, I actually have to try it. I actually have to like it. Um, you don’t just get.” Like, it, it was… Uh, and I actually responded to her, um, and said, “Yeah, there has just been this change.” Um, and these, these like, you know, and, and, and it’s one of these things like, okay, I, I remember the… Like, I feel like, you know, my grandmother now. Like, “I remember the days of, you know, when we walked in snow and it was 15 feet high.” You know, it, it, it, you know, it’s like I’m now, I’m now of that era, right? But because, uh, it, th- just the way the expectations have changed because of social media and influencers, and you give me something, I’m gonna say something, right? And it’s gonna be nice, right? Well, yeah, yeah, there’s also the expectation that you’re gonna pay for play, uh, not, uh, uh, in a more traditional context. I’ll give you an example. About a week ago I got a call from a production company. They’re under contract to CBS News. So I mean, CBS News is embroiled in its own stuff right now. Uh, but it’s still one of the major news outlets, uh, am- among the broadcasters. And they’re doing 35 segments around the America 250 theme. Uh, and each segment’s about four minutes, and they wanna do one on construction. They wanna come out and highlight our company. I’m on the phone 20, 25 minutes with this guy, talking about, you know, what we could talk about and what we’re doing in, in sustainability and, and things like this that would be of interest to an audience. And the producer is, is getting very excited and, and we’re starting to make arrangements and, and then, and this is, this is a, a classic example of bearing the lead. He says, “By the way, there is a $60,000 buy-in.” Uh, yeah. It’s like, “I thought you were under contract to CBS?” Well, yes, they’re under contract to produce the items, but they have to raise the money to handle the costs of production on their own. So you’re seeing more and more pay to play like this in order to play in traditional mainstream and, and, and trade media I’ve been approached by two different publications since I’ve become a fellow Um, for, you know, the story. Um, and my qu- you know, and it’s like I’m now asking the question of, “And is there a cost to be involved?” Because I’ve- Yeah … you know, we’d like to- You gotta- … feature you. Yeah. Right? And it’s like- Gotta, gotta start with that. Well, exactly. Yeah. Right? I clicked in pretty quickly. Um, and it’s like, lovely opportunity, what’s the cost? Right. Right? Um, which is unfortunate. I think a really big question here is we need a broader conversation about ethics when it comes to media coverage, when it comes to communicators. Um, our association, we have a code of ethics. Um, there are a number of news agencies. CBC, for example, has the JSP, which is standards and principles, journalism. And, you know, a number of news organizations and practicing journalists, for example, have been working with, uh, mental health agencies on how they can, uh, cover appropriately, uh, news stories in which, uh, individuals have died by suicide and what can be done. And often now you see at the end of these stories, um, a link to mental health resources. So there’s a, a conversation happening around how we can approach conversations ethically. And the other side for me about, um, the changes we’ve seen in, uh, media ownership and how stuff is covered, um, the flip side of shrinking organizations means that you have a loss of triangulation. So as a social policy researcher, I try to collect information in different ways. What are the studies that have been done? Can we do a survey? How about testing some of those results in a focus group? What about consulting and holding public meetings with key informants? So that you can test what you find. And the loss of multiple media services means that ourselves as consumers of media, we don’t have the ability anymore to test what we learn against other sources. And when you have media influencers, when you have, um… And I’m not talking about the journalists who are doing really interesting work on their own and publishing that through Substack or other means. But when you have people who say, “Oh, I’m gonna whip out a phone and cover this and tell you the real truth,” to provide the hot take on issues, that’s not necessarily grounded in knowledge or evidence-based, uh, information and research. Um, w- we have a deficit of critical thinking and analyzing because we also lack all those sources in which to, um, assess. And so in my work with media relations is I try to connect people with different kinds of sources, so at least within a piece that results- Um, there can be multiple sources of information about the issues from reliable, trustworthy contacts. And I think that’s part of the bigger conversation when we encounter pay-to-play, because then we’re only getting single source, uh, information I, uh, I’d like to add something to what you said, Martha. I’m so glad you brought up the IBC Code of Ethics, because it really does underpin everything we do. Uh, and, and that is, uh, when we’re dealing with the media, whether we’re an editor dealing with, uh, one of our journalists, uh, or a source, or we’re a journalist dealing with, uh, uh, sources or readers, uh, it all comes down to trust, and trust has to be truth-based. Uh, when, when we, uh, are writing or we’re reporting, uh, we’re consuming information and sharing it, it all has to be based on the truth. And that’s where a, a, a lot of media have, uh, gotten away from fact-checking and gotten away from, uh, uh, ensuring sources are legitimate. Uh, but, but as a communicator, uh, dealing with our bosses a- and, and dealing with our, uh, consumers, our readers, writers, uh, viewers, uh, uh, listeners, it’s, uh, it’s gotta be truth-based and we, we gotta build trust with our, with our, uh, constituents, and we, uh, you have to keep earning it all the time. If you lose it, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s something that’s extremely hard to, to restore. Right. And when we put that, our own professional communications code of ethics, when we use that as our, um, as our, as our filter, as our, our compass, et cetera, in these discussions about, um, the media landscape and, um, the value of ethical communications and, and journalism as it relates to that, uh, really that can, that can help guide us in a kind of a, a, a, a more meaningful way than even some of the tactical, uh, examples some of us are discussing, right? So pay-to-play, for example. Um, uh, you know, I think our code of ethics gives us some guidance about that. And, uh, and that will be, you know, you’ll need to… Will each of us need to figure out how to apply that within our organizations, uh, uh, whether they be educational, um, corporate, not-for-profit, uh, et cetera. Um, so yeah, I think we, we have that guidance within us. And Martha, as you say, and I’m sure all of us speak to students about this, you know, I say like fi- if whatever community you find, whatever path you choose, there will be a code of ethics. So it’s not just ours, it’s, it’s, um, it’s the journalistic code of ethics. It’s all of those things that, that keep us true to the truth. Yeah. Uh, um, Jennifer, you and Martha both raised something I want to talk about for a minute, and then we have a comment from a listener. Uh, but, uh, you, you, you both talked about what journalists are doing, uh, if they don’t want to be associated or affiliated with a mainstream publication anymore, or if they have been let go. A lot of them are starting their own media companies, uh, or they’re just starting to crank out a Substack. Uh, they’re continuing to employ the practices and principles of effective journalism. They’re just doing it, uh, through a different channel. And I, I haven’t checked, but I don’t think that Cision and the other PR services companies that are configured to help you reach journalists are making this transition and identifying all of those newsletters on Substack and Ghost and all of the other platforms that are available for this, uh, all of the YouTube channels that are being set up a- a- as media outlets for some of these journalists creating their own media outlets. Uh, and it, it, it seems to me that it would be a lot of work, uh, to identify those. Um, you know, where I work, uh, we are trying to shift, uh, the perception in the marketplace of the kind of markets where we are active, because that has pivoted. Uh, so that wasn’t that difficult, you know, 10, 15 years ago. It’s a nightmare now. How do you find those? And how effective is it if you pitch one journalist with their Substack newsletter as opposed to the journalist who’s in the publication that’s being read by for- far more people And that is why we do a lot of work. That’s the relationship building part of what we do, right? Um, and that is, that’s what we do. That is, that is what media relations, um, that’s our job if we’re doing it well, is to stay connected and to find out, uh, who is doing what and where people are, and to, to build those relationships, and to understand the areas that we are working in and who is doing what in any given, you know, at any given time. It has always been part of our job to understand who is where, because they were always moving around, always changing, um, and they were. Um, people within the media, uh, were moving from beat to beat to beat within, um, you know, newspaper or TV or whatever at any given time, and it has just become, m- you know, more complex and more compounded and more fragmented than ever before. But as you are doing, you know, building those relationships, and that is, that is what we have to do today. We have to maintain those relationships, and we have to stay on top of that, and we have to, um, understand who is where so that we can, um, be the type of person, um, um, who makes the journalist’s job easier. Um, so that we can have those relationships, foster those relationships so that we can do our jobs. And one of the things I used to do, Diana, when I handled media and communications for a public health organization here in the province, is I tracked the issues that might, uh, attract attention. And so one day I, I… well, I’ll sign up for different Google alerts for different topics to see, A, what’s being said and how they’re writing about it, or how it’s being covered, or what are the kinds of things that people are latching onto. And, you know, came across my, my email that there were, uh, there was a report from out west in Canada of a type of a vaccine that they were experiencing some shortages with, and it was a vaccine that’s used often in the schedule for children, uh, aged one to five. And so I thought, “Oh, this is interesting.” Um- I’ll go and talk with the medical officer of health. And so I went and I said, “Hey, um, you know, this came across my desk. Are we having any issues?” And he said, “Where’d you hear that?” And I said, “Well, it was a reliable report from CBC up in the western part of Canada.” And he said, “As a matter of fact, we just got an update, um, about the shipment of vaccines and how it’s gonna be rolled out because of the supply chain issues.” So I said, “Oh, well, very good. You’re on top of it. No worries.” Anyway, two hours later, I get a call from a local reporter who does this exact same thing, but from a different perspective as a journalist, to call me up and say, “Hey, Martha, I read this story on our sister website. Um, are we having any issues here in this province?” So there are ways that you can use, and, and this is one of the things that I think is positive, um, about search engines and subscribing to updates, is that it can do the work for you of trawling a number of sources so that you can then take time to evaluate and say, “Okay, I regularly want to receive information from this person because I’ve reviewed their content and they’re a reliable source.” And so there are tools that we can use. Um, and as Diana said, one of the things I would always do is also get to know the people in your neighborhood, and sometimes move out of the neighborhood, and sometimes new people move in. So you have to cultivate those relationships and see what their understanding is. And I’ve never had an issue cultivating a particular reporter with an aspect of a story, because different reporters are intrigued, attracted, uh, drawn into a story for different reasons. And so being able to provide multiple angles that might serve my multiple journalistic audiences, uh, was always a helpful approach, because people like something that’s different. They don’t want to be sharing the same information, uh, as their competitor. And, uh, it’s an advantage for you, and it’s also a plus for them. Martha, you raise such a great point about that reporter who called you. Uh, he called you because he trusted you. Uh, and also, and ’cause you already had a trust- a trusted relationship. Yeah. But also, uh, if you hadn’t heard that, that could’ve been the first, uh, information you had received about this, and you could have gone to your boss, who may not have heard about it as well, and become the bearer of this information that came from someone who’s connected with the issues, uh, and, and contacted you as a reporter because he or she trusted you. Um, Kjell, I wanted to just quickly come back to your initial question around, um, you know, where do we as communication professionals focus our time in this, in this new landscape with a lot of independent and, um, perhaps sing- more singularly focused, uh, journalists? Um, do, do you, do you nurture the relationship with someone in their Substack audience or do you look to more mass-market, uh, media choices? And like everything we do, I would say that needs to be audience-driven. So it’s about finding where our audiences are for our particular message, in your case, construction. Um, I used to do a lot of work in healthcare media relations and, um, nurtured some long-term relationships with reporters who were looking for very specific health research stories that I, you know, over a period of time, uh, they would, they would learn to come to me and say, “Okay, it’s, um, heart, a heart month. Um, you know, what have you got?” Or I would have come to them kind of thing. Um, but it is a, it is building, building the trust and also from an organizational perspective, knowing how, what the best channel to my audience is. Yeah, as some of you may know that I am a podcaster and have been for a long, long time. Uh, and I probably get six or seven pitches a day for guests to appear on my podcast. Uh, generally they’re at least somewhat on topic, sometimes completely off topic. Uh, every now and then we’ll actually respond to one that looks good. Uh, I would say probably one out of 50, uh, we’ll, we’ll respond to. Uh, are you- pitching podcasts? Uh, have, have you heard of other communicators doing it? Because I’m doing it now. I’m trying to get our subject matter experts and our thought leaders onto the appropriate podcast. One of the, uh, markets that we’re active in is aviation. We do a lot of work at airports, uh, building terminals and things like that, and, uh, we want to have the, the people who understand what it’s like to be doing construction airside with the security and the safety issues there. Uh, we wanna get them in front of the people who are making the decisions about who are we going to invite to bid on this project. Uh, and, you know, trying to find the aviation podcasts that they might listen to is a bit of a challenge. Uh, AI is, it has been helpful. Uh, but I’m out there actively pitching, uh, podcasts. Is, is that something you’re hearing about? I’ve been building some media lists, um, and I’ve actually been sort, trying to find some podcasts as well, uh, some very specific podcasts. It is on my radar because, um, the, you know, some of the podcasts may be small, um, but they are the target audience that I’m trying to reach very specifically. So again, I think it’s, we’re trying to h- I think when you’re doing, um, the job of media relations, um, that we want to do, uh, you’re trying to get to your audience, right? And I think podcasts are one very specific way to do that Um, and I think, you know, it, it getting to, um, I was looking at Cision’s State of the Media report that was done this year. Um, and it’s interesting the point that you just made, Shell, about, um, whether or not the pitches that you’re getting are the right pitches. Um, and in the, in the report, it said most journalists say that less than 25% of the pitches that they’re getting are actually relevant to them, and so that’s really key. Um- Yes … right? So, uh, and n- not that that has changed, ’cause I think that, that is what most journalists have said for many, many, many years. I think that’s one of their pet, pet peeves. Um, and so we always have to keep that in mind. And I, I just wanted also to point out that, um, 80- in the same survey, that 84% of the journalists actually said that they wanted, um, media communicators to reach out to them via an email and introduce themselves before they ever pitched them, and, um, start a relationship with them ahead of time- Yeah before they actually ever started pitching them. Um, and to start that relationship, introduce themselves, um, and to put some context around why they might be reaching out to them. Um, and so it’s all part of that relationship building ahead of time. So yeah, you know, identifying who you could be reaching out to, you know, and if that’s ca- uh, that podcast is the right source for you to be, um, connecting with the end audience, then that’s the right way to go It’s, uh, a- as, as a writer, I, I write for a lot of trade professional journals, and, uh, if you have a relationship with an editor, they, that they know that you’re gonna write something and send it in that’s gonna be, uh, pretty good and pretty close to on time, uh, th- then they, they don’t say, “What is it? Just send it along. I, I got a space for it.” Uh, but if you don’t know that editor, uh, it’s very hard to crack, uh, crack the nut. You, you really have to send all kinds of clips and, uh, examples of, of things that you’ve done and, uh, answer a lot of questions about what you’re gonna write. Uh, so, so b- getting that relationship, once you’re there, uh, it makes all the difference in the world. I think that’s the absolute key to having a, a successful media relations, uh, component to your communications practice. It’s connecting with the people and understanding what their needs are. They get hundreds of emails, and lots of them get funneled into the spam folder. Um, they don’t have time to read, uh, a pitch from someone who’s just sent out 1,000 emails hoping something will stick or catch somebody’s eye. And- Pray and pray … respecting their time is critical, and also understanding how they want to receive information. I once got a comment from a journalist who said, “You know, I can’t actually do anything with your news release.” And I said, “Oh dear, you know, what did I do wrong?” And he said, “No, this is exactly how I would write it as a story, but I can’t just run it 100% as is.” And I was thinking, “Well, okay, that’s pretty cool. I haven’t lost my journalism training,” ’cause that’s, I did go on to do a journalism degree after my undergrad. But, um, being able to present the information in the way that they can use, and so I do a lot of work supporting people who want to write op-ed pieces. Um, and space is a consideration, and word count is a consideration, and being tight and concise and focused is huge. And sometimes people call me up, and they’ve got 1,500 to 2,000 words, and I said, “Guys, no one’s gonna publish that,” right? Even though there is a market for long-form journalism, and there’s been some really incredible work done, but when it comes to an editorial piece or a commentary, you need to be really tight. And so being able to work with people who know that the stuff I’m going to send them is going to meet their specifications is already a step ahead in, in being able to achieve that coverage. ‘Cause then if it attracts the attention of the op editor, then they can move into, “Oh, well, maybe we should pursue this in the news section.” Um, and sometimes I’ve done that, and I’ve pitched that and say, “Hey, you know, this person has written this piece. It’s being published on Wednesday. But there are other nuances or aspects to the story that you might wanna consider as a separate standalone news piece.” So being able to cultivate those relationships, to have the trust, but also to respect their time and what their needs are is, is super important. Just to go back to the podcast thing, Shel, for a second, um, I will say that, uh, at least in my observation of the next generation of, of business leaders, communication professionals, and, and our audience frankly, in other words, the, the students I’m seeing in the classroom, when I ask them about channels, you know, “How would you get… If you were, if you were in, imagine you were working for an organization, how would you get your message out?” I would say podcasting would, would be, the vast majority of them would, it would be in their top two or three, if not their number one, in part because that’s their, they have a more intimate relationship with podcasts and podcasters than perhaps previous generations have had. And so in fact, there’s this, um, there’s this, uh, new form of, of connection and trust that is built between liter- listeners and audiences and, and podcasters, uh, that I think needs to be taken into account in the ways that we show up as communication professionals. I’d like to add to that, Jennifer. You know, we, we’re Luddites, right? Uh, if you’ve been around long enough to be considered to be a fellow, you’re, you’re, you’re entrenched in, in the old ways. Uh, except for Shel. Oh, come on, Dan. Speak for yourself. He’s always… So I, next, I’m sat next to this w- young lady on a plane. She was an influencer. She had millions of followers on Instagram and, uh, and Facebook, and I’m watching her and she’s going like crazy with her thumbs. And I, I said, “How do you do that?” She said, “What do you mean?” I said, “You go so fast with your thumbs.” And she goes, “Well, how else do you do it?” And I said, “Like this.” And she gives me the, she gives me the, “Okay, Boomer” look, you know? Right. Yep. Uh, yeah, the other thing to think about with podcasts is, is that they do end up getting quoted now in the mainstream media. It’s, it’s, uh, sort of the, the new man on the street. Uh, you, you end up seeing so-and-so said on a podcast. Uh, in fact, I’ve started listening to some podcasts because they get referenced, “Oh, you need to listen to this interview with this guy on this podcast,” said Paul Roetzer on his podcast, right? So, uh, I, I think there’s a, a way to get amplified if, if you’re on a podcast. Uh, I do wanna share a couple of the comments that we got, starting with, uh, Mirko Pecevic, uh, who says, uh, yeah, basically kudos to me for my little local online initiative. Uh, he does say that it doesn’t fill the gap of critical reporting, and, uh, it, it absolutely does not. Uh, it’s, it’s just finding facts and, and publishing them. Uh, what practices can comms pros adopt to support local reporting? And I’ll, I’ll turn that over to all of you in a sec, but I, I do wanna direct people to Alabama News Center at alabamanewscenter.com. It was started by Alabama Power, uh, because they saw a vacuum in local reporting where they could get their own stuff out. So you’ll see a lot of Alabama Power coverage in here, but you’ll see coverage of other things. Business, community, innovation, food and drink, and weather, uh, are the categories they have. There’s no politics addressed here, but, you know, if there’s a, a parade, I, I’m looking at a, a story here that, uh, you know, Run for the Wall motorcyclists stopped in Tuscaloosa, Alabama to honor veterans. Uh, those types of stories. So, you know, this is, is one model is if you’ve lost the local media outlet that you relied on to get information to your stakeholders, start your own Uh, all news is local, and if you can find a way to find someone in your organization who’s, who’s, uh, achieving something, accomplished something, uh, has an interesting story to tell, uh, that localizes your, uh, main messages a- and, and gets you some opportunities in, in more local media. Uh, some of, uh, in, in an earlier lifetime, uh, in the Navy, I was responsible for the fleet hometown news center, and we sent 1.13 million individualized press releases a year to local media, to, uh, radio, local, local newspapers, high s- uh, college alumni associations, uh, about the accomplishments of someone localized or, uh, someone who went to that school, who lived in that town. Uh, these are their parents, uh, and this is the accomplishment. They, they won an award, uh, they graduated from a special course, a- and this was local news. And the vast majority of our newspapers, our editors, uh, used it because it was local, and people will look for something that they can connect with locally The problem becomes now that the end source to be able to put that into something is now gone, right? So- Yeah … right? ‘Cause I, I know exactly what you’re talking about, and now those papers or those places are no longer existing. So where do you send something like that, right? Um, and they’re just not there. They’re just not there anymore. Um, it’s funny ’cause Martha was just talking about, um, uh, news releases that, you know, they can’t run them anymore. Now, I, I actually wrote a news release for becoming a fellow, um, and I actually sent it to the local, um, online newspaper, and they actually ran it word for word. Um, so y- you lo- you gotta love it, right? It’s always, it’s… Y- you love it when they actually run the, the news release you wrote word for word. Um, and they actually ran it in the online, um, local newspaper that I had become a fellow. Um, and so it is that same kind of local story. Um, and they, you know, so them doing something like that, but there’s a lot of places that just don’t have, um, the capacity to actually be able to do that anymore. Um, I have seen a number of, uh, as a judge for the Gold Quills or, uh, an evaluator, I have seen a number of, of submissions come through where corporations or companies are actually including in their, um, corporate newsletters, uh, places where they’re talking about what is going on in their local cities. Um, and so there are companies that are, are taking up that gauntlet and including information about what is going on within their company newsletter, so that’s always nice to see. Um, um, doing something like that. It’s a good way to humanize your organization. Yeah. People like to be seen. People like to be recognized, and organizations that have, uh, departments or divisions or teams, um, in different parts of the country or, or their provinces or states, um, do well to include those perspectives rather than always seeing it come from head office. Um, it’s a challenge in Canada where a lot of the media outlets in terms of national coverage are concentrated in central Canada. Um, it means that the local voice gets lost, and it’s a bigger challenge if you want to, um, really get some national coverage. And I work with a, a company in Ottawa, and one of the things that we have found is that the, uh, what media wants is something that will connect the issue to the people in the area that they are servicing, um, in terms of news, however it is, in terms of the web or an actual publication, a radio broadcast or a podcast. And sometimes you’re finding crossover where some former newspaper outlets are now including, uh, video coverage in their stories so that they can show the progress of a news conference. Um, so being adaptable and responsive, I think, um, is challenging when that funneling thing is happening with centralization of news sources. But if you can connect people to other people in their different regions, then it, from an internal communications perspective, it really does build solidarity, uh, and humanizes, as Ned said, the, the workplace because people see that their employer recognizes that unique aspect of them in terms of if you’re in the south or the north or the west or wherever. Let me, uh, get this last comment in from Brian Kilgore, and h- this is fascinating, and I, I don’t disagree with this at all. Uh, this is looking at this from the other angle. Sources at the decision-making level won’t talk to reporters or appear on camera, and instead only issue statements. I remember a few years ago, I, I read a, a piece, uh, I think it might have been in, uh, the Columbia Journalism Review or, uh, the, the Nieman Labs or, you know, one of the journalism reporting outlets, uh, that said that, uh, The Washington Post had approached a big company, I think it was Clorox, about participating in a, a report that they were doing, and the response from Clorox was, “No, thanks, we don’t need you,” to The Washington Post. Uh, if coverage is important, how do we convince our, our, our leadership that we need to be doing this even as, as, as we see the erosion of the, the media landscape? Well, I think, uh, it’s funny, I had, uh, I had coffee with a journalist friend yesterday morning and, um, she was talking about an article she was working on for The Economist, so, you know, pretty high-profile piece. Um, and she approached a, um, a federal cabinet minister whose, whose, um, purview it was, it is to, to, um, uh, who is a subject matter expert and, um, and his office, uh, said, “We’ll provide a statement.” And she said, “This is The Economist.” Um, “I think I can … I th- I, you know, I think an interview is warranted.” Um, to which they agreed, uh, but it sort of took that ri- reminder. But what I, something related to this, Shell, that I wanted to mention is the, is this kind of, um, dissemination of responsibility for sharing the news, which we’ve been talking about in a, in a variety of ways, that comes to us as organizational communicators, but it also ne- it also takes into account the weaving, the new, the new look of the, of the media landscape. Um, the, uh, the same journalist friend is, runs a major journalism program here in, in British Columbia. It’s a recognized program across Canada, and they’ve stopped intake of their journalism program and are reevaluating its, um, its role, its relevance, its purpose, et cetera. However, one of the really interesting things she’s been talking to us about is the, is the distribution, the desire to ensure that the distribution of those skills continues at the s- at the school. So in other words, um, they still want, uh, uh, to ensure that students have good writing skills, uh, critical thinking skills, all of those things. So where this comes back to your question about the executive level presence is the, is the reminder that we are, uh, like with many roles, we’re wearing many hats, uh, and executives need to see themselves that way, um, need to see themselves as part of, um, not just a contributor to or an observer of or a bystander of the news cycle, but an actual participant in the news cycle, which we as communication professionals are in a new way as well. We’re partners with journalists. Many journalists are working in communications. Um, and, and so I think we can bring a re- a refreshed understanding of the way that landscape works in a way that means we build trust and community within each other to get those important messages out. Uh, uh, no, no other thoughts on Brian’s point? Well, I think we’re seeing more of it. Sometimes it’s because people have less time and it’s easier. They feel that way they can control the message because it’s the statement, so the statement gets quoted. Um, and I think it’s interesting what Jennifer said because there is still a lot of fear in terms of how you might get treated by the media and how your words may get used. And so I think people see it as the easy way out to say, “Okay, we have, um, a statement. Um, they have a photo of the person who’s speaking. They can run with that.” And so I work with media relations coaching and performance presentation, and getting people over that fear, uh, is one of the things that comes up every single time. And I had to throw up on the screen a comment that we got from Diane Chase saying, “Yes, Jennifer.” So. Thanks, Diane. We are about out of time. Uh, less than 90 seconds left. Uh, so I do want to let everybody know what’s coming up in August on Circle of Fellows. Episode number 132 will take place at 6:00 PM East Coast time. Uh, the time shifts based on who’s on the panel, and this time on the panel, uh, we have Adrian Cropley, uh, from Australia, so the time has shifted to accommodate his participation. I still think it’s gonna be a, a, a very early hour for Adrian. But, uh, we will be talking about artificial intelligence issues in communication, notably pivotable, pivotal points for the profession. Um, and I’m, I’m not gonna guess what we’re gonna be talking about in a month because the whole landscape could change again, uh, in, in, in 30 days. I mean, you look at the news just recently and it’s all about open weight models from China. Um, reading Chris Penn saying, you know, y- y- you can’t block them because they’re the only ones that people can use to develop their own models, uh, even if it’s a US, uh, research company. Uh, so I mean, all kinds of interesting things that, that we can talk about. That panel, in addition to Adrian, uh, will include Bonnie Caver, uh, Pia-Mary Caramanis, and Mike Klein. So it should be a great panel. And to Diana, uh, Martha, Jennifer, and Ned, thank you so much for your participation today. I think this has been a great discussion. Uh, just a, a, I, I think a sign of what a really good conversation does. I didn’t get off question one on my list of- … of questions. It just kind of snowballed from there, and we had a, we had a great conversation. Uh, so, uh, until next month. See you all later, everyone. Thanks, Sal. Always a pleasure.

The post Circle of Fellows #131: The Evolving Media Landscape and What It Means for Media Relations appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Podcasting 2.0 is the open-source movement launched by Adam Curry and Dave Jones to preserve and extend podcasting’s open, RSS-based ecosystem. In this episode, Shel and Neville explore the initiative’s core features — including the Podcast Index, enhanced RSS metadata, transcripts, chapters, podrolls, live notifications, and listener-supported “Value for Value” payments — while weighing its potential to reduce dependence on dominant platforms such as Spotify, Apple, Amazon, and YouTube. The discussion also addresses obstacles to adoption, including limited awareness, uneven support across hosting providers and apps, added complexity, and the need to demonstrate clear benefits to listeners. For communicators, the larger implications involve channel ownership, accessibility, content reuse, AI discoverability, resilience, and the risk of building audiences entirely on rented platforms.

Links from this episode:

• Podcasting 2.0 — Making Podcasts Better for Everyone
• What Is Podcasting 2.0? And Why Should I Care?
• Podcasting 2.0
• What Is Podcasting 2.0?
• What You Need to Know About Podcasting 2.0

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 27.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw Transcript:

Neville Hobson: Hi everyone, and welcome to For Immediate Release. This is episode 522. I’m Neville Hobson

Shel Holtz: I’m Shel Holtz, and Neville, we’ve been doing this show for more than 21 years. When we started, there were maybe 400 podcasts. There was no Apple Podcasts to help people find and subscribe to shows, and every podcaster was what today they seem to be calling an indie podcaster. What’s not an indie podcaster? That would be Joe Rogan, for example, on Spotify collecting money. He’s not an indie, he’s mainstream media. So I try to follow the podcast industry. I subscribe to some newsletters. I read some people who talk about it. But somehow I only recently encountered Podcasting 2.0. This thing has been around since 2020. Despite the name, it’s not a new audio format. It’s not a new app or a replacement for RSS. It’s an open source movement launched by, guess who? Adam Curry, the podcasting pioneer, along with a developer named Dave Jones. God, there’s a lot of Dave Joneses out there. Its mission is to preserve, protect, and extend the open podcasting ecosystem. Now, that word open matters. Traditional podcasting works because creators like us publish an RSS feed that many different apps can read. Nobody has to upload a separate master copy to each player. But over time, discovery and listening have become concentrated in large corporate directories and platforms like Apple, increasingly Spotify, Amazon, and YouTube, but there are others. These companies set their own rules for their own services. Spotify’s rules explicitly say that it can remove content and suspend or terminate accounts. You can call that moderation, deplatforming, censorship. There’s no denying the underlying power these services have. Spotify can remove a podcast from its service. If the creator independently controls the RSS feed and hosting, Spotify can’t erase the podcast from the entire internet. The danger comes when creators and audiences become so dependent on one proprietary platform that removal there is effectively removal from public view. Podcasting 2.0 was designed to reduce that gatekeeper risk. Its answer isn’t that every app has to carry every show, it’s that no single app or company should be able to make a show disappear everywhere. Now, the initiative has several major pieces. The Podcast Index is an open directory that apps can use instead of depending on one company’s catalog. I checked, and FIR is listed, as are our other active shows on the FIR Podcast Network. The podcast namespace adds new backward-compatible tags to RSS feeds. Those tags can provide creator-controlled transcripts, richer chapters, information about hosts and guests, live stream notifications, alternate audio and video versions, licensing information, and a podroll of shows creators recommend. Remember blog rolls? This is podrolls. There’s also PodPing which alerts apps quickly when a feed changes, and there’s a really much-discussed thing called Value for Value. It’s a model that lets listeners support creators directly, often through tiny Bitcoin payments called sats, S-A-T-S, and attach messages known as boosts or boostagrams. And, yeah, I was listening to the Podcasting 2.0 show with Curry and Jones, and they were shouting out everybody who gave them a boost the Bitcoin element gets disproportionate attention, but it’s optional. Podcasting 2.0 is much broader than cryptocurrency. And by the way, there’s a vertical market application of Podcasting 2.0 called Godcaster. That’s a defined community of religious podcasters who have embraced Podcasting 2.0. The question is whether this model could work for, say, corporate ecosystems, universities, trade groups, nonprofits, and the like. And that explains why communicators should care or at least know about all this, because this really is a conversation about channel ownership, interoperability, accessibility, and resilience. Accurate transcripts improve access and make our content easier to search and reuse. Chapters and person tags make expertise more discoverable. Podrolls let organizations recommend trusted voices without surrendering discovery to Spotify or YouTube and their algorithms. And open distribution reduces the risk of building an audience on rented space. Now, there are caveats. Support remains uneven. I didn’t even learn about it until a couple weeks ago. Hosts like Libsyn, which hosts FIR, and podcasting apps implement different subsets of the standards. Open infrastructure doesn’t eliminate legal obligations. It doesn’t change hosting company policies. There are other choke points. And decentralization doesn’t automatically make the content accurate, ethical, or responsible. But the core idea is important, and that’s that podcasting began as an open medium, not a collection of corporate content silos. Podcasting 2.0 is an effort to modernize that open model without giving up what made podcasting distinctive in the first place. For communicators, the lesson extends well beyond audio. Distribute widely, but retain control of the source, the identity, and the relationship with the audience

Neville Hobson: Yeah, it’s quite a story, Shel, I think. Like you, I hadn’t really heard of this other than the fact I did come across Podcasting 2.0 website when Adam Curry launched it back in, what was it, 2021, 20- 2020. But since then, no, haven’t heard anything about this at all really other than some kind of, aside comments here and there on on a couple of tech podcasts. And I’m thinking what you’ve outlined or makes complete sense to me. So why hasn’t this been thought about before even? I think it has in part. I’ve read people talking about this online, particularly on making content more easily consumable as they see it and there we’re talking about an idea that’s not new. Apple’s been offering this for a while, which is chapters, splitting up your content into chapters. But that’s only Apple. It doesn’t transport, and therein lies one of the issues with this, I think. How could you put it? There are some concerns I can see. I’ll come onto the pros in a minute. But I think is this not fragmentation of something that’s going to require quite a bit of a learning curve to figure out what to do with this? I’m also thinking that, is this going to open another standards race? Open standards only work if enough people adopt them, otherwise there is becoming another well-intentioned technical layer that only enthusiasts use. We’ve seen that. But, A broader, top-level question is, are we looking at the next stage in podcasting’s evolution, or are these features primarily serving podcast creators rather than podcast listeners? In other words, who’s getting the greatest benefit? That’s what I’m wondering. And I think it, it does… The fragmentation issue I think creates complexity. Features, bolting on new features more metadata doesn’t compensate for weak storytelling, and you have to have that sorted out. And I think there’s a risk of enthusiasts becoming excited by all this, while listeners simply want worthwhile content. The interesting thing, though, a-and you pointed this out in your intro, that the where we’re at now with podcasting is the marketplace is largely controlled or dominated by big platforms. You mentioned Spotify, you mentioned Apple. If we go to look at the analytics on Libsyn as to where, how people get our content, there’s a long list of 20-plus podcast platforms. Some of them, some of them never even heard of, yet there’s, you can imagine an episode has got, six downloads on that platform and 200-and-something on another platform. So it’s like we like to say, “Listen to us wherever you get your podcasts.” So how do we introduce this into that landscape in a way that literally isn’t complexity from the fragmentation? Because it will be fragmentation. And not– And who’s not– who’s to say that Spotify and the others aren’t going to respond not in a positive way to this, ’cause this is their control slipping away. So this is what I spot as some of the issues. I think the… Another standards race is maybe- more concern one of podcasting’s great strengths has always been its relative simplicity. Wasn’t like that when we started, mind you, but that’s how it is today. This introduces another layer of standard, certification, and implementation. We’ve seen this before. Social media standards, RSS extensions, schema markup, countless proprietary platform features. So it’s not a pretty looking landscape, I would say. Plus as we are talk– We’ve talked about this ourselves, but others are talking about this. This is podcasting’s time. It’s going to play a bigger role in organizational communication, particularly as podcasts play a growing role in organizational and employee communication. So how does this all work, where you’ve suddenly got these things that sound appealing to very appealing to creators? I think probably not so much from listeners whose sense complexity is what they’d be looking at. So you’ve have to make it very easy and simple. That said, I think there are some big advantages from it. You’ve mentioned some. One that strikes me immediately, richer, more accessible content. It turns an audio file into a more complete communications asset, it seems to me. So transcripts, chapters, structured metadata makes a podcast easier, and this is a big appeal, Shel I would say. Easier to search, easier to quote, easier to repurpose, easier to reference internally, and make accessible to people who cannot or don’t want to listen to something. So you make it broader. So you could also say, many organizations already struggle to maximize the value of long-form content. These features make it much easier to reuse a single conversation across newsletters, blogs, social posts, knowledge bases, internal communication. We’re always talking about content reuse as communicators. Podcasting 2.0 makes that much easier because the structure is built into the episode itself. There’s tons more we could talk about in this vein, but I think that’s enough for now. I think there are some major cons that would worry me if I were thinking about, let’s see how we can take advantage of this. It’s got a homebrew feel about it, which isn’t a criticism by any means. That’s how podcasting started. The landscape’s way different now. I could see a big role for AI in constructing the landscape, if you like, constructing it and helping you bring this into your plans. But this again it’s big work to get this done, it seems to me.

Shel Holtz: yeah, I think the biggest challenge that Curry and Jones face with this is building awareness and support. If I’m a podcaster for 21 years and hadn’t heard of it, you heard about it when it launched and heard nothing since then there’s a serious awareness problem here. And that’s what’s going to keep this from adoption. I’m not worried about fragmentation. Podcasting started with the RSS feed. This is something that Dave Winer came up with working in hand-in-hand with Adam Curry, who developed the podcatcher that would recognize that extension that Winer created. This did not render those RSS feeds useless to the RSS newsreaders that were out there. They still got them. They just ignored that extension because they didn’t have any way of playing a media file. So they still saw it. I have to believe that an RSS feed with all the new stuff in it is still going to be an effective RSS feed. The problem is that you have the hosting services, as I mentioned, we have been hosted with Libsyn, not since the very beginning, but pretty darn close

Neville Hobson: Yeah

Shel Holtz: Right. Let me start that thought again. The problem is convenience. If you make Spotify the place you go for podcasts and they’re listening to FIR and we say something offensive and they decide to take us off they’re not going to go look for us elsewhere. They’re just going to find other podcasts because they use Spotify. If you do a deal with Spotify, and you have to be pretty good, pretty famous guarantee a lot of downloads. But if you do a deal with Spotify, that’s the only place people are going to find that podcast. And again, you do something that violates the terms of service or their standards and they take you off, then you’re off. You’re gone everywhere. So I like the idea of this standard. I would just like to see some agreement across all of the hosting platforms and the discovery platforms that we will enable all of these on our platform so that listeners get the benefit. And you articulated some of those benefits to the listener. They don’t have to know that’s courtesy of Podcasting 2.0 any more than they need to understand that there’s an extension in the RSS feed in Podcasting 1.0. They just know that this is what they get when they subscribe to a podcast. But I love the idea of they’re not having to go to the show notes on our website to get the transcript. And frankly, I like the idea of people who love the show being able to support it with a micropayment that sends a message to us. I think that enhances the listener-podcaster relationship more than just commenting on a LinkedIn post or on our website or whatever. So yeah, I think there’s a lot to, to recommend this, but I think there are lots of obstacles in the way. And as you mentioned, there are also issues that don’t get resolved because of this Yeah, and Dave Jones is a developer, so I’m sure he’s working on all of this and probably has answers to some of those questions. I think it’s largely in his and Adam Curry’s hands to get the word out about this. If I were them or if I were counseling them, I would suggest that the audience that you need to be aiming at is podcasters the creators. And the message is tell your hosting service that you want these features implemented. The more they hear this and the more they see their customers changing hosting platforms to one that does embrace all of this, the faster they’re going to adopt the standard, and this will work for everybody. But I don’t see that effort underway, and I would advise listeners if you’re curious about this, visit their Podcasting 2.0 website, but also give a listen to the Podcasting 2.0 podcast. It’s typical Adam Curry. There’s a lot of digression and a lot of talk about completely off-topic subjects. But when they do zero in on Podcasting 2.0 it’s really interesting to hear them talk about this and where it is and where it’s going.

Neville Hobson: I would say Libsyn, we’ll be in touch

Shel Holtz: You can count on it. And that’ll be a wrap for this episode of For Immediate Release

The post FIR #522: Is Podcasting 2.0 The Future of Podcasting? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Your brand is no longer defined solely by what you say about yourself. Increasingly, it is defined by the answers AI gives when someone asks about you.

That simple but profound shift lies at the heart of The Answer Economy, the forthcoming book by Pete Blackshaw, entrepreneur, founder of BrandRank.ai, and former Global Head of Digital and Social Media at Nestlé.

As AI assistants and agents become increasingly influential in how people discover information, evaluate products and make decisions, organisations face a new communications challenge. It’s no longer enough to tell your story well. Your organisation also needs to be accurately understood by the AI systems that increasingly act as intermediaries between brands and the people they serve.

In this FIR Interview, Pete joins Neville Hobson and Shel Holtz to discuss why AI should be viewed less as another marketing channel and more as an auditor of organisational credibility. Together, they explore why trust, transparency and evidence are becoming more important than marketing claims, how different AI models develop different perspectives on brands, why communicators need to think beyond traditional search optimisation, and what organisations can do today to prepare for an increasingly agent-driven future.

For communicators, the implications are profound. Success in the answer economy won’t depend on producing more content. It will depend on whether an organisation has earned the evidence, transparency and trust that AI systems increasingly use to evaluate every claim it makes.

In this conversation, we discuss:* Why Pete believes AI is becoming an auditor of organisational credibility rather than simply another information retrieval tool. * What he means by the idea that “your brand is as strong as its answers.” * Why evidence increasingly matters more than messaging in an AI-driven world. * The concept of a “book of truth” and why organisations need to make trusted information easier for AI systems to understand. * How and why ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, Grok and other AI models can develop different perspectives on the same brand. * Whether communicators need to understand AI “worldviews” as well as human audiences. * Why corporate communications could become one of the most strategically important functions in the age of AI. * How organisations should prepare for AI-generated reputation challenges and new governance responsibilities. * What AI agents could mean for marketing, purchasing decisions and brand influence. * Pete’s advice for communication professionals on becoming “answer ready.”

About Pete BlackshawPete Blackshaw is founder and CEO of BrandRank.ai, an AI visibility and brand intelligence platform that helps organisations understand how AI answer engines evaluate brands.

A two-time technology entrepreneur, Pete previously founded PlanetFeedback, one of the earliest consumer feedback platforms, which was acquired by Nielsen, where he later served as a senior executive. He also established Procter & Gamble’s first interactive marketing team before spending nine years as Global Head of Digital and Social Media at Nestlé, leading the company’s worldwide digital transformation initiatives.

Throughout his career, Pete has focused on the intersection of consumer trust, digital communication and brand reputation. His forthcoming book, The Answer Economy: How AI Agents Will Decide Your Brand’s Future, published in September 2026, draws together more than two decades of experience helping organisations navigate the evolving relationship between consumers, brands and digital technology.

Resources Pete Blackshaw on LinkedIn * BrandRank.ai * The book: The Answer Economy: How AI Agents Will Decide Your Brand’s Future * Pete’s The Answer Economy* newsletter * Search previous FIR interviews with Pete Blackshaw (2005, 2007 and 2009) on the FIR archive site.

TranscriptA transcript of this conversation follows, lightly edited for clarity and length.

Shel Holtz (00:04)
Hi everybody and welcome to a For Immediate Release interview. I’m Shel Holtz.

Neville Hobson (00:09)
And I’m Neville Hobson.

Shel Holtz (00:11)
And we are thrilled to have Pete Blackshaw back with us. Pete, this is your fourth appearance, I believe, on FIR. And it’s been a while. I think is what? It was 2009, I think, was the last time. But it’s great to have you back. I’ve been following you ever since then. Certainly read your content on LinkedIn and subscribe to your newsletter. So very happy.

Pete Blackshaw (00:21)
It has been a while.

Yeah.

Shel Holtz (00:38)
Anxious to have this conversation and the reason we reached out to bring you back on FIR interviews is because of some research that you have been doing for a couple of years that has resulted in quite a LinkedIn post and a new book coming out in September. tell us about all this and yourself.

Pete Blackshaw (00:57)
Yeah, sure. Well, I’m a native Californian who’s here in kind of adopted Cincinnati as my is my home. I have kind of had a mix of is my s you know, two time startup founder, first one I sold to Nielsen, which was in that space that you and I were talking about, you know, viral complaints and early social media. And and I’ve always been, you know, if there’s any through line across my career, I’d say it’s

The consumer meets trust meets digital. And both of the books that I’ve written kind of cover that. But in addition to being a startup founder, I’ve also worked in a large lot of the large, you know, multinational corporations, you know, many of whom I’m, you know, the types of companies I’m selling to. So I co founded P and G’s first interactive marketing team. Remember when we called it that back then? I

was a senior executive at Nielsen after I we sold my first startup to them. And then most significantly I spent nine years at in Switzerland as the global head of digital for Nestle. And ironically that kind of came in the wake of a a bit of a crisis that we all remember, you know, with Greenpeace, where they kind of recruited me in to kind of help to address all of that. And then I did a five year stint

Neville Hobson (02:18)
Ha ha.

Pete Blackshaw (02:22)
after Switzerland was recruited by P and G and Kroger and some of the Cincinnati companies to launch a startup accelerator and did a little bit of work in venture capital. But I’ve loved being back in the startup world and yeah, looking forward to the conversation.

Neville Hobson (02:39)
Terrific. So we should to kind of warm us up. I’ve got a question to start with that is a very, very simple one, actually, Pete. when I was looking into the the book that you’re publishing and looking at the content, what you’re covering and all that stuff, I saw I saw some huge kind of resonance with what we talk about in FIR. And there’s a lot of overlap, which I which I found really, really exciting because that that’ll fuel some of what we’re gonna talk about today, I think. But

Pete Blackshaw (02:45)
Yeah.

Neville Hobson (03:09)
First question, which is kind of a framing question. You’ve been talking about consumer trust and digital influence since the early social media era, if not earlier than that even. So this question this is my question. What feels genuinely different about this AI moment compared with previous platform shifts?

Pete Blackshaw (03:29)
Yeah, it’s a great question. I think what’s fundamentally different this time is

Is accountability. You know, I often say that, you know, the big aha for me when I quit my last job to launch brand rank, my current startup, is that I was shortly after Chat GBT came out, kids were asleep, we were skiing, and I was just doing what I typically do, what I’m sure you guys do all the time, just exercising my curiosity. And then typing in things into ChatGBT like, can Nestle be trusted? Are Pampers diapers really sustainable?

And it dawned on me within seconds that this medium that is evolving is the world’s greatest BS detector. And and we started to see some of the platforms are really on the extreme side of that, like anthropic cloud, where you just can’t throw spinner slogans at them. They just kind of cut through it. And that was like the big unlock for me. It’s like, my gosh, this is not only gonna become a new purchase funnel.

This is going to become really tricky terrain for marketers that are used to controlling the message, managing the spin, maybe getting away with overflated claims. And and I was like, my gosh, I gotta measure this. Someone’s gonna have to create like a Nielsen ratings of what these answer engines say. And I really wanted to focus. I know there’s a lot of players that are out there doing.

you know, AEO or GEO, but I really wanted to focus on the hard issues, like, my gosh, are brands going to be held more accountable for sustainability? Are these very sophisticated LLMs going to just digest an entire supply chain and either say thumbs up or thumbs down? Are, you know, and and maybe and and maybe, just maybe, will brands finally be forced to do some of the things that you all three of us have been talking about across the four sessions.

Which is, are they finally gonna kind of start responding to feedback? Are they gonna start inviting questions? Are they gonna start acting more with empathy? Because remember, digital started there. Digital started, we called it interactive. And the whole promise was like, we’re gonna be able to answer questions for consumers. They’re gonna come to us. And I remember when I started interactive marketing at PNG, that was like the North Star. And then we kind of moved into targeted advertising at scale.

We got very programmatic, we got digital, we kind of forgot about the consumer in control. And now I think that’s really waking up. However, one of the things I say in my book is

Listen, we totally messed up search two point And I’ve talked to the folks that wrote books about that, like John Battel, or like, my gosh, that quickly became a tragedy of the commons. Nobody could tell the difference between organic and paid and and even when it moved to mobile. And we as an industry are gonna have to decide like, do we want to preserve this incredible gift to consumers? And the things that are good for consumers are also really good for business, where they’re getting, you know.

reliable, trusted, you know, answers that are just solving like everything for them. Or do we want to pollute the commons by moving too aggressively the paid advertising? Do we want to dance in the gray zone? And so the book is kind of a the answer economy is this true shift and we have got to get in front of it.

To make sure that it is nurtured in the right way. And the timing couldn’t have been better because just last week, you know, all the folks from OpenAI are running all over cons trying to grab ad dollars. And that’s that’s good. You need, you know, you need an advertising model, but marketers have a historic tendency of dancing in the gray zone. And I just think we need to really get in front of it. And that’s like the heart and soul of the answer economy. We are in a world where the brands that actually answer the questions win. It’s such a basic

pre-digital concept that now is kind of getting extra life. Brands that tell the truth win. Why? Because the answer engines kind of call your BS. you know, so so that’s kind of the heart of what I’m getting into. And I just think it’s a really important conversation. And I’m hoping that it dusts off some of these conversations that we had in the past that maybe just were too damn early.

Shel Holtz (08:06)
Yeah, I remember those days, what, around 2004, when everybody was talking about how we were now going to have brands and consumers engaged in conversation and this was going to change everything and really didn’t. But Pete, you outlined this prescription of making everything sourced, timestamped, structured, LLM findable. that’s good hygiene for sure. but you’re describing how to feed the model, the inputs it

reward. So if a brand does this well enough, hasn’t it just learned to pass Claude rather than actually be trustworthy? I mean, how how would how would Claude or or you tell the difference between a brand with real substance and a brand with just a really great brand book of truth?

Pete Blackshaw (08:50)
Yeah, well, I think a lot of that goes hand in hand if you do it right. And again, you know, there’s a difference between a verified, trustworthy book of truth and marketing. I mean, they’re not the same thing. And so what I’ve learned, you know, I’ve I’ve been at this for two years, have worked with about 80 of the world’s top brands, big brands that you know that really, you know, have really challenging issues.

In fact, the whole business model started on sustainability, you know, Nestle Canada. And I they kind of invited me in for Earth Day. And we really took a hard look at, okay, will Nestle be rewarded or punished? And the good news is that they were severely rewarded. But there are ways where you need to market. I and maybe not the word market is the wrong term. You need to make your the good work that you’re doing.

Discoverable. So for example, I have found that a lot of the companies that I’ve worked with are getting lower sustainability scores than they deserve. You know, if you look at their science and their commitments, it’s actually pretty damn good. However, they’re so backwards on digital strategy that they put all of their science in PDFs, which LLMs can’t read. And we call that content liquidity. So there’s it’s not about manipulation. It’s a lot of it is like about getting the credit that you’re due. Now, I say that.

I don’t want to sound naive with that because I realize there’s a whole industry that’s mushrooming around me that’s all about manipulation and gaming and whatever it takes to kind of get credit you probably don’t deserve. I’m not playing that game. I think there is so much upside for companies that are actually already doing good things, have products that actually work, have credible supply chains, treat their employees well, that aren’t getting the credit they deserve. And I like those.

Challenges and we’ve been able to significantly move the needle with a lot of big companies just by making sure that they load up their FAQs with their sustainability commitments that are already verified by third parties or by these LLMs are very biased towards trust signals. And so we’ve always known that quality seals, BBB, you know, fair trade,

Good housekeeping, those have always mattered, but they’re really important to the LLMs. Because if you think about what’s happening right now,

They’re in a arms race to be the single source of truth. And so they are very, very biased towards trust signals. There’s a lot of misinformation out in the marketplace that everybody goes to Reddit first. That’s not true at all. They go to the brand websites first because they know those are places where content is typically vetted, reviewed by lawyers. Brands kind of are close to their stuff and they look at that. And then if they don’t have what they want, then they’ll go to other sources.

So what marketers do, what we do is we focus on three simple metrics. And I try to, yeah, I think a lot of us in the industry are just throwing too much vernacular, too many metrics. And I try to keep it really simple. Visibility. Are you visible? So what’s the best podcast show that has to do with, you know, you know, public relations or crisis? I suspect you would probably show up. If not, then I may become your digital coach to make sure you do.

Neville Hobson (12:14)
Yeah.

Pete Blackshaw (12:15)
You know, vulnerability is the second one, which is how do you show up? And it’s different than sentiment because I often say the visibility gets you seen, vulnerability gets you remembered. And I think companies underestimate the degree to which you can be visible, but in a very negative context. And a good pre-AI example is that when I was running digital at Nestle, Wikipedia was a big pain in the butt because you type in

Nestle into Wikipedia and like 40% of the entry had to do with the company’s history with activist. And so it was like the gift that kept on punishing all the time. And so you know, A and and AI kind of compounds that it’s almost like you can’t. so that gets into misinformation, hallucination, and then what I call brand alignment, which is do the LLMs fundamentally agree with the promise that you’re putting out there on your website, your Amazon page, your TV ads?

And this is very, very humbling. Sometimes executives throw chairs at me, but that’s where the big unlock takes place. And the third area is readiness. Do you head out and market to algorithms? and then we focus on three buckets. You know, availability, do you even have available content that algorithms can read? clarity, do you speak in a consumer language? And right now, at least, they’re very biased towards conversational vernacular, which I think is good. And then the third one is depth, where

You have to have substance, the third party seals, the the validation. And so I think right now the criteria they’re using is good for the consumer, because I think it means a consumer’s more likely to get a good and a trusted response. And I think for the good actors out there that actually really that don’t BS and actually live up to their claims, I think they’re benefiting as well. but it’s gonna be very tricky environment where you’re gonna have lot of bad actors that don’t deserve to be at the top. They’re gonna

fight the bloody hell to get to the top. And there’s going to be a million vendors out there kind of say, we will get you to the top. And so it’ll be interesting. But that’s why I think we have to really think about like what this is our this is our moment right now. Like what type of digital space do we want? We messed up the previous ones. We’re 25 years into us. We still are like deluged with spam. My entire phone is loaded with artificial voices pitching me on stuff. None of them are real. And

So now we’ve got this chance to like really nurture something special. Can we do it? I don’t know.

Neville Hobson (14:42)
It’s good one. It’s a good one. Pete, one thing that really struck me is how you describe AI as an auditor rather than simply an information retrieval system. So you say, for instance, AI answer engines are now the auditors of brand credibility. We’ve talked a lot on FIR about organizations needing a human in the loop for AI. But and indeed, there are examples that are large, highly visible, very prominent of organizations who’ve really screwed up on that area.

by not having a human in the loop. But what you’re suggesting, I think, is almost the reverse. AI is now putting organizations themselves in the loop, constantly evaluating whether their behavior matches their claims. Is that how you see it?

Pete Blackshaw (15:28)
Yeah, no, it no exactly. I think the and I think there’s a number of different yeah, so what we’ll do, it’s it’s my favorite part of the model. It’s a little bit evil, but but it really is crazy insightful to clients. So we’ll take your brand promise, and every company has one, and then we’ll take like the top 10 comp claims. Oftentimes the things that you you’re sending out to the marketplace or the analyst, and we will kind of have each of the LLMs interrogate.

those claims. And then we’ll come up with scores one to ten. And it’s absolutely fascinating. And this is the ultimate unlock in understanding how the algorithm thinks. Like, you know, and and again in the book I get into all these different segments, like how does Claude think? How does Grot think? I mean, you know, right now at least, Claude is like the student radical who just is like doesn’t believe the man is like

y they’re just not gonna believe marketing whatsoever. And so I did a brand alignment test on our dashboard with Amazon. I’ve got a dashboard with Amazon. I can send it to you afterwards where I had Amazon has this statement like Earth’s most consumer centric company and then you know blah blah blah. And then I had the LLMs interrogate it and you know who gave it the lowest score? It was Claude. Claude gave it like a four out of ten.

Shel Holtz (16:47)
Claude?

Pete Blackshaw (16:51)
And then they got into all these specifics about why they simply don’t measure up. Now, the irony and the beauty of that is that, you know, Amazon is a huge partner with Claude. In fact, Claude is what undergirds Rufus or Alexa for shopping. I think Amazon’s even put some money into Claude. But, you know, this is like the beautiful irony of these, of these crazy systems. They’re kind of holding everyone accountable. And I’m like,

And what I’ve been telling brands lately is that, you know, you got to be really careful before you spend a ton of money on paid advertising, where, you know, people are just one question away from calling your BS. and then the other thing that I think is getting really tricky, and you’ll love this. One of the things that I’ve been doing lately is really telling.

Corporate communications teams, CEOs, boardrooms design for Clyde, because this is one platform that continues to grow and influence.

They act like a college radical and they are absolutely loved for better or worse by journalists, NGOs, determined detractors, yeah, financial analysts. And so I always say, like, if you can pass the Claude test, you’re probably in a good place. And I’ve actually done briefings with clients before earnings calls where I’ve literally looked at the data from like Claude, where they’re just like, no, we don’t believe it. We don’t believe it.

And they’ve almost become practice fodder to kind of figure out how do you really but the point is that yeah, we’re in this tricky environment where you got to be really accountable for what you say because these very, very smart algorithms are like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don’t necessarily agree with you. And marketers have never lived with that type of accountability. I mean, it’s like Spin City, and I’m I’ve been part of that. And so I do think, yeah, the marketers that really have superior products can back their claims.

But they’re also gonna have to think about all these other areas that are gonna creep into the algorithmic judgment. Like I do think you talked about human in a loop, and you had a lot of CEOs. You know, you have Mark Pritchard was talking about that at Khan. I mean, I think everyone’s gonna be talking that, but these algorithms will kind of know whether you’ve completely sold everybody out to AI or whether you’ve kind of kept a blend. And I think some purchase behavior is gonna be based on that.

I mean, I could I could see I could see frustrated teenagers that are like already skeptical about AI creating shopping tools that say, I’m only gonna buy from companies that don’t go go too far on AI. It’s not difficult to hack, you know, on on one of the vibe coding tools.

Shel Holtz (19:32)
Pete, you out you outlined the the concept of a brand book of truth, mentioned that a few minutes ago, and I’d I’d I’d like you to sort of articulate what that is. But if every brand builds one and f and floods the zone with sourced timestamped LLM findable proof, does does Claude’s discernment survive that or do you end up in an arms race where the brands with the biggest content budgets win again? And

Pete Blackshaw (19:56)
I did.

Shel Holtz (20:01)
That’s the dynamic that that you’re saying is dead.

Pete Blackshaw (20:05)
Yeah, I do. I think a lot of the listen, I think some of the LLMs will submit to the chaos that you described. But I do think yeah, I think I think these, you know, it’s interesting because Claude is not as dependent on a paid ad model or getting all their money from subscriptions. So I think the ones that’ll get really trickier are are open AI and some of the other, you know, Google’s already a little bit fuzzy.

but they’re still, you know, wowing consumers with, you know, you know, AI overviews. But yeah, they’re just gonna have to be really careful about how they they blend. But I think it’s, you know, it’s a fair point. But I do think that you know, when I talk about book of truth, it’s not just the marketing slogans, it’s like how the product’s made. It is literally, is it truly superior and can you verify that?

You know, yeah, how do you stack up versus competition? Who are the people behind the brand? What’s the supply chain behind the brand? They’re kind of looking for all those different ingredients, even even for the purpose of like Amazon. I mean, this stuff is so real. I just put out a note to my clients this morning. I put a little blurb on LinkedIn as well, but

Amazon Prime Day was really insightful. I didn’t go, I couldn’t, I didn’t go to con last year, but I did stay glued for four days straight on Prime Day. And it was probably the biggest conversational boost we’ve seen in the history of commerce. Almost every single, you know, now it’s like every product you look at is surrounded by questions. I mean, what the hell’s going on? And then a lot of the you know, I’ve saw a lot of advertising trying to work into that. But on that platform, you can go in there and say, is this product sustainable or should I buy sustainable products?

Or should I I mean in and it’ll really give you very, very deep perspective before they start shoving products your way. And that is an absolute game changer. And so and I do think like the smart retailers will want to make sure that that the consumer kind of gets what they need. So so I may be, you know, long way of saying I’m optimistic. Where where it can get scary, you know, is if where everything got out of whack.

before was it Google was a monopoly and they had like 90% market share screw they can do whatever they want. I do think because you’ve got genuine competition, there is this real effort to like provide maximum value to the consumer. And that’s why I say we’re in a moment. You know, the answer economy is a moment. Either we’re gonna screw it up like we did before, or we’re gonna kind of turn it into a true win-win for consumers and business alike. But it’ll take some work to do that right.

Neville Hobson (22:53)
Interesting that is. I’ve been thinking when I listen to what you’re saying, Pete, a question I need to I I’m really curious about this because it I’ve been asking myself this question as I try to figure out where we’re at with all of this. What do you think? Could two different AI models, whether it’s Claude and ChatGPT or any any two, develop materially different views of the same company, the same brand?

What will that look like, do you think?

Pete Blackshaw (23:23)
it I I do this every day for clients. I we literally kind of give them we filter them through all the major LLMs, you know, from ChatGBT to Deep Seat to Perplexity and Grok. They all have different personalities. It’s no different than going after influencers, right? And influencers kind of, you know, they beat to different drummers. And so and and again, I would say Claude is the extreme librarian. They just don’t like marketing BS. They kind of just focus on the facts.

The credentialing, the science. you know, Grok is almost like hard to predict. And they do lean on a lot of the former tweets that kind of fall into it. but they are a little bit, they’re definitely they almost like personify not the politics of Elon Musk, but definitely like the almost like the unpredictable side of him and what you see. It’s like a different personality.

Gemini still, you know, you know, it’s it’s you know, the the it depends on if you’re looking at Gemini AI overviews. I mean, they all have different thinking processes in terms of the way they synthesize data, but absolutely, and I would say the new, you know, just in the same way that like a PR term might you might say we gotta we’ve gotta figure out how to break through the New York Times, the Financial Times.

And so and so you gotta think the same way. It’s like they they they think differently, they source differently. And so this is I spent the whole weekend doing this fascinating source analysis where I looked at, you know, tens of thousands of prompts and then I analyzed the sources and they have different favorites. And just recently the New York Times is finally starting to to creep into open AI, which does start to impact the character of their output.

You know, Claude tends to look a little bit more seriously at consumer reports than Joe’s review site. And so you have to know this. I mean, this is like the new PR. This is like the new influencer management. If you do not know how these LLMs think, if you don’t know what their brand archetype is, if you don’t know what they eat for breakfast from a content perspective, you’re not on top of what your client needs, in my view.

Shel Holtz (25:42)
I have a follow up to that question. Does does does this mean a brand needs to have a message strategy for every LLM or is there a through line that satisfies them all?

Pete Blackshaw (25:44)
Yeah.

Know if they have to have different messages, but they need to be very attentive to how they are filtered. I do think all the LLMs, like for example, in my analysis this weekend, they all pay a lot of attention to your brand website. Far more than I think the media has let on. And I know because I’ve just run like a million audits and I see this all the time. And so

Brands have a lot of leverage in influencing the story, especially when there’s bad information out there and the brand website or the own media is in a position to kind of correct the record. And we’ve done some really interesting work around crisis or recalls where some brands have been able to actually train the LLMs within 12, 24 hours based on getting that right information in there. But but yeah, I mean you’ve got

So I don’t think brands need to overcustomized. I think they need to be very, you know. I mean, if I were, you know, if I were heading corporate communications today, I would probably say, yeah, there’s some that I would focus on the ones that are most critical. You know, and the the ones that are most critical often have also tend to be the most loved by other influencers.

that we care about, like journalists and NGOs and the like. And so, so that’s where I would kind of put the focus on in that. Now, now that said, they’re all going to be introducing, with the exception of Claude, advertising models. And so those will be micro opportunities to influence. And we saw, you know, a lot of that, you know, OpenAI is already doing a lot of that. And there’s gonna be, you’re gonna have they’re gonna have to study like, you know,

Is it appropriate to advertise? I do have a strong point of view there that if you have high vulnerability, you shouldn’t advertise. If you have low vulnerability but low visibility, I’d say, yeah, spend all the money you want on advertising. But brands are gonna have to be really sensitive about they’re gonna have to learn the art of not making things worse. And I don’t think brands, I mean, again, going back to the conversations that we’ve had for 20 years, brands don’t know how to manage conversations. I mean, they’re like, I mean, they’re like.

Most brands are maybe are barely there on like the first question. But in the answer economy, I have this term that I use in the book called ask through, not click-through. Click through is like if I can just get that one click. You and I know we’re we’re using these tools all the time. It’s a sequence of questions. You go in there with a health query, and it’s like multiple. And every single additional question that’s satisfied that gets you further down the sail.

Or further down the path of happiness. And like brands don’t know how to do that at all. and so, but the the second you submit to these ad models where you’re sitting right in the middle of the prompt, you almost have to figure that you always have to know that stuff. So this is gonna be really tricky. It’s not gonna be one of those push a button kind of get media. You know, there’s gonna be a whole accountability that comes with it when you’re kind of in the answer stream.

Neville Hobson (29:05)
Hmm. Let’s I let me talk go back to I I guess something we discussed just a short while ago. In fact, Shel’s question about should brands ever tailor themselves differently for different models, which I if I understood you right, Pete, you basically say that’s ultimately a dead end, not really what what what they should be doing. So I’m thinking you mentioned Claude hates marketing BS or corporate spin or whatever whatever it might be.

and you describe the models like Claude or like Grok, etc., almost as having editorial personalities or or value systems. But that’s fascinating, I think, because I’ve sometimes questioned that myself, because organizations, brand managers have spent years trying to create one consistent narrative about their brand or or their organization. So I think

The question I had originally was worded are we, in other words of question. I think it’s more like we are as opposed to are we, which is entering a world where communicators have to understand not just audiences, but different AI worldviews. And I think it’s it it is interesting. my experience in this is not deliberate trying to get an answer to this, but I use myself usually a mixture between Claude and Chat GPT. So I I alternate between the two.

Claude is more rounded and rich because I fed it with so much information about who I am, a lot more than ChatGPT has. That I I I’m okay with I’m literally asking vague questions a lot of the time, and it never disappoints my experience so far. Chat GPT needs a little bit more nurturing in that regard, although it does surprise me at times with the depth of answers I get to some things when I’m doing research. So I guess I I

confuse myself even because I have no idea what the answer to this is. But I think it is something communicators should think about. Those who haven’t settled on one, you know, notwithstanding the topic Shawn and I’ve talked about recently where, you know, shadow AI is is growing like crazy in companies as people use their own thing, ignore what the what the company says. So it what what would you what would your advice be to communicators in this earth? Yeah.

Pete Blackshaw (31:25)
No, it this is the new this is the new you’re knowing it. I mean, this is the new influencer

marketing, right? That’s always been at the core of like issues management and communication and and you know, you have to know your influencer, you have to know their hot buttons, you have to know their biases, you gotta know you know, how they evolve and there is a lot of evolution and and again this is where I think we may find a year from now that hey, you know.

They’re patty cakes with brands because they want the ad dollars. Who knows? I don’t know. But but yeah, and so and brands need to think this through. And I didn’t want you to think you made the comment about dead end. I I obsess with the nuances of the platforms, but I’m not convinced brands need to over tailor the message to different…

I again I think there’s a few where they gotta be really careful about the BS factor, like anthropic, where it’s just they just gotta make sure that their claims can hold water with these judges and these filters that are processing their their information. And I think I really think brands are just they’re not ready. In fact, what I’ve concluded is that across all the major, you know, Fortune 1000 companies, they’re only like 20% AI ready.

I mean, the most obvious thing is, you know, and sometimes companies get, you know, annoyed with me. And I have been doing this all the way back from my plan of feedback days, but like most companies cannot answer questions. I mean, you can go go to your after this podcast, go to your favorite brands and like type in a really basic question, like, how do I use the product? What’s in the product? Is it sustainable? But 90% of the time they’re gonna slap you in the face with a pop-up ad. They’re not gonna, they’re either gonna fire a blank.

Or they’re gonna answer something completely differently. Like brands don’t know how to do this. In the last 25 years of digital, the most basic human need of interactivity, I want to question brands can’t do it, including the big ones. They get all the awards and spend all the money. It’s crazy. And there’s a lot of people on the inside that are like, hey, that doesn’t matter, that doesn’t pay out. Or consumer services was always considered a non-strategic call cost center.

But again, I’m sort of saying the answer economy, that’s the new purchase funnel. Like this is the new skill that we need to learn. So it’s not only how to influence the algorithms, it’s almost like how do we fundamentally change our mindset where we’re more receivers of intent. And then we have to use that as the new engagement. You know, to some extent, when someone casts Amazon’s CEO had a great quote that everybody in marketing should put on their forehead, where he basically said it was so beautifully simple.

Neville Hobson (33:59)
Mm-hmm.

Pete Blackshaw (34:12)
He was doing an earnings call and he’s talking about the progress of Amazon Rufus, which I think at that time was already generating like $10 billion in incremental sales. And he said, Hey, it’s pretty simple. Every consumer that asks one question is 60% more likely to buy. And this is almost like the North Star that brands have always been looking for in terms of engagement, right? A click half the time you’re trying to get rid of the brand, right? So get out of my face. A question is like a big lean in.

Where if you can’t convert that. And so I think brands need to understand that, like, you know, inviting the consumer to ask a question, making the website more receptive to questions, not only wins with the consumer, but it builds your database to feed LLMs. You know, because where brands are underrepresented in all the LLMs, if they that book of truth is partly an inventory issue. It’s like you have to have enough.

Scenarios, you know, how to use the product, what’s it made of, blah, blah, blah, to even start to market the algorithms. And brands don’t do that. They you’re lucky if you see maybe 20 FAQs. And of course, brands could be problem solvers for like a million things if you do it right. Tech companies are very good. So I’m I I want to be careful here. Tech companies, I think, are very good. Apple has a fantastic and have for many years, pre-AI, have just

Bent over backwards to make content available when you have a challenge. And that’s why almost every app Apple question you ask through an LLM is like pretty much right. Same thing with Microsoft. I think tech companies have always been good at having a lot of FAQs and knowledge. Bigger brands that spend the big bucks on the Super Bowl are really, really, I gotta be careful what I say, have opportunities.

Shel Holtz (36:08)
Yeah.

Pete, in in chapter nine, see, I I actually went through the book, y you argue that the next big comms crisis isn’t going to be a social media firestorm, but an AI generated answer, a brand can’t correct. because the infrastructure for rebuttal was never built. This is really interesting. I was just on a panel in Covington, Kentucky, by the way. If I’d known you were in Cincinnati, I’d have given you a call. where

Pete Blackshaw (36:33)
no way.

Shel Holtz (36:37)
We talked about pre bunking as a way to address crises, that you’ve all got all this content out there already. but y you’re saying the crisis is going to come because they haven’t done this. The con the content isn’t there to rebut what the the LLM is is saying. Can you walk me through what that crisis actually looks like and why the old crisis playbook is not gonna be effective in these circumstances?

Pete Blackshaw (36:55)
Yeah.

One of the big issues that I’ve had with a lot of our top clients is about kind of crisis and governance, which is that

You know, winning with answers is a governance issue. And it’s a big reason why I’m been really hesitant to

you know, suggests that this is all about SEO 2.0 or this is something that the search manager deals with. I mean, and you know, if your brand is as strong as your answers, a lot of people are implicated. And I think where companies really struggle in crisis is figuring out who owns it and who’s accountable.

And I do think, you know, I do make a pretty strong pitch in the book that brands have really got need to get in front of this. And, you know, there is a there’s an accountability. Like the they’re they’re bullshit detectors, who’s accountable? they’re kind of saying your products aren’t made the way you claim. Who’s accountable? there’s there’s all sorts of legal liability issues, and I think we are just in the very early stages. At some point you’ll need to interview my

My co-founder Hank Hudipol, who’s doing some really breakthrough breakthrough work around hallucination and accuracy. But you’ve got states that are now filing laws that if if the answer comes out wrong, even through an LLM, you are liable. Think about that in the health zone, right? And so so who so who is responsible? Is that the marketing team? Is that so there’s a you know, I think brands need to start thinking now, and I’m having a lot of leadership meetings and summits on this topic, they’ve really got to figure out the governance area here. And, you know, and it’s one reason why we’re trying to keep the metrics relatively simple so they really have a clear eye into what’s going on. It’s a big reason why we put almost I’d say vulnerabilities is kind of at the top of the list. But let me tell you what you get if you have governance. So without naming names, yeah, we work with some brands that have had

Very, very severe crisis issues where misinformation is even from the government is kind of stirring up the pot in terms of, you know, how the answer engines. And you’ve just you’ve got to get RD to the table, you gotta get legal compliance, marketing, even the CEO, you know, they need to kind of play a critical role. And the good news is there is I’ve done a lot of boardroom discussions and

There’s a lot of heightened sensitivity when a CEO says, My daughter just typed in this and they say we’re this. And they’re like, Why the hell is that? And who’s responsible? So But yeah, these these issues are really, really tricky, and a lot of stakeholders need to come together. And and that is and I think it’ll probably be a little bit blurry in terms of who owns it. Like right now, brands have these AI

Heads of AI. I don’t know if those jobs will last very long. Sometimes you know are they gatekeepers, are they enablers? Are they just, you know, I mean AI is now kind of part of everything. So I think who owns what will be a bit fluid for the coming years.

Neville Hobson (40:17)
Yeah, that’s that’s really good. I think it is. Yep. So it actually interesting Pete what you’re saying, listening listening to how you describe it it amazes me how some companies just are so off the trail with with a lot of what they need not to be in that position. They need to to truly pay attention to where this is all going. And we’ve mentioned this in a number of episodes where we could

Pete Blackshaw (40:24)
That helpful?

Neville Hobson (40:51)
you know, share many examples of where we see instances where that is simply not happening. so let’s talk about AI agents. Yeah. Mm.

Pete Blackshaw (40:58)
But but in fair but in fairness, in fairness.

Let’s just put this in perspective. We’re still only what a little over three years into this. I mean, we’re up to like five billion prompts a day, and this stuff started three years ago. So yeah, companies are always gonna be slow. But the good news with this, I do feel like

There’s a feeling of a sense of urgency. Like there it’s it’s a bit of an shit moment. Like we’ve got to figure this out. And so and then, you know, how do you, you know, how do you really capitalize on this? And even it’s funny, like launching a startup, the one thing you dread is like, my gosh, it’s gonna take forever to get to get a vendor number. And we’ve had some companies that typically take like three years to get a little small startup in Cincinnati a vendor number to literally three weeks. So I do think there’s

There’s a memo, there’s a bell that’s ringing inside the organization. It’s like, shit, the purchase funnel has changed. we are really accountable. Every stock analyst is now digging up dirt on us. Or good news, through these tools, we’ve got to act. Then they’re like, Well, who owns this? Is it wait? It’s digital, right? No, well, wait, maybe it’s RD because they’ve got the most substance, you know, to kind of put to the table, but we don’t really think about them as marketing.

Neville Hobson (41:55)
Mm mm.

Pete Blackshaw (42:22)
Or may is it sales? You know, it’s just like it’s a bit of a cluster right now, but it’s a good conversation. Companies really haven’t had this discussion in earnest for a long time. I think digital is a little is like conveniently tucked into marketing. And now you’ve got a whole different world order that companies need to think through. And it’s gonna be a really big test for like CEOs out there. Who gets it? Who you know, CEOs are gonna play a critical role in orchestrating this stuff. And

And, you know, we’ve been working with a few companies that I won’t name where the CEOs have made a massive difference and in kind of leading, you know, organizations where nobody’s really accountable for doing it to like getting organized around it.

Neville Hobson (43:08)
Yeah. I’d love to hear more stories of people, you know, organizations who really are on the ball with all this because I’m getting tired of hearing all the stories about these companies who are not. They’ve the not that they’ve dropped the ball, they haven’t even grasped the ball yet. In fact, Shel and I’ve talked on a couple of episodes, two conflicting surveys. One about how CEOs are are really coming to the fore and taking control of developing AI rollouts in their in their companies.

and are providing leadership and are doing all these things. Then another survey has completely conflicting information to them. So I mean you just gotta go visit LinkedIn and you’ll see conflicts all over the place, including everyone’s got an e book they want to sell you. That’s that’s the kind of magic, magic bullet handbook.

Pete Blackshaw (43:52)
It depends on how you

classify it. Yeah, I’ve I’ve read all those studies too and you know, and and my view is like a lot of this is it’s is it an AI strategy or it’s something you should have been doing a while ago? So I posted something last week, you know, and you know, almost as a little bit of a counterpoint to the con lions, because I was kind of like, why don’t they ever give love or rewards or recognition to brands that just answer the boring question?

Neville Hobson (44:05)
Right, right.

Pete Blackshaw (44:22)
Right. At some point we’re just gonna say, God, that brand really went out of went out of their way. We should have a recognition. So I just created what I called, you know, the answer cans. And so and I started like and and I and I cited some of the companies that I wrote about in the book that and I don’t even think they use the word AI. Like, yeah, w what do you think is one of the most the best index companies on the web right now in in AI that just shows up consistently.

Neville Hobson (44:34)
Yeah.

Pete Blackshaw (44:49)
Well, I’ll give you a little hint. So if you ask anything related to like sustainability, like what company shows up first?

It’s like Patagonia. They’re everywhere. They’re everywhere. Now, I don’t, I doubt they even use the word AI there. You know, but they have been absolutely committed to driving radical transparency in their products, flooding their content with meaningful content. and they have been training the LLMs for years. Sephora, a brand in beauty that’s always been very

Neville Hobson (44:59)
Okay.

Pete Blackshaw (45:26)
Come to the calendar and I will answer you questions. I think that that model lives in the way they approach digital as well. They are severely rewarded by the LLMs. I mentioned a few of the the the I mentioned a few of the tech companies that do that particularly well. A lot of young companies that don’t have big bucks for advertising, they are very intuitive about.

Everybody that goes on my website could be my last customer. So let’s just give them the love of knowledge, of guidance, whatever they want. They are being disproportionately benefited. In fact, one of the things that I have found is that and I work with a lot of big companies that own massive budget. I’ve consistently found that, you know, for big companies, market share under indexes, over, you know, over indexes answer share.

Which means that the younger companies are actually they’re kind of winning on answer share, partly just because they’re it’s not like that they’re trying to spike the system. They’re just wired to answering questions. And so this is where the the the thesis of the book is really simple. I’m almost trying to say this without all the buzzwords and the tech gobbledygook. It’s sort of like if you treat the consumer, you know, if you kind of

Create a bit of a Wikipedia to kind of help the consumer answer every question, you will win big time in the AI world. I have seen that correlation left and right. Instead, most brands make it really complicated. We need an AI strategy. We need an AI strategy for the AI strategy we need. They create all these damn layers. And then you go to their website and they still can’t answer a question. And so this is why it’s almost like forcing the question. It’s like, you know.

The answer economy, not the AI world, the answer economy. And so we’ll see if I’m successful or not.

Shel Holtz (47:24)
All of this when I picture somebody actually doing the things that you talk about, not not from the brand perspective, but from the consumers perspective, I see them going to a chatbot and and entering a question. Sam Altman has been laser focused on the transition from conversational assistance, the chat bots, toward autonomous workflow executing agents. and he says this is a shift you’re going to see.

in the front end of Chat GPT. God knows I spend as much time in Claude Cowork as I as I spend in Claude. what is this shift toward agents, assuming all of the LLMs move in this direction, what does that do to this whole concept?

Pete Blackshaw (48:12)
Yeah, listen, I mean, I write about it a lot in the book and you know, the the tet the subtitle is, you know, how AI agents will decide your brand’s future. yeah, so a lot’s gonna be delegated, but I don’t think it’s gonna I I think there’s a little bit of overhyping that consumers are gonna completely like delegate everything to agencies. I’m not. And and I frankly, I enjoy, you know, the ask through of asking health questions. It’s sort of like, you know, and so I don’t, you know, there are gonna be certain areas where we’re gonna be totally comfortable with like

Delegating the agents, or there are other areas where we’re just gonna wanna be more in control of it. And so, but I don’t think what I’ve said earlier.

impacts any of that. I would say that i in an agentic world, brands still need to catalog their truth and make it marketable and make it visible. And and and you could almost argue that it’s going to be more important to get your act together on marketing the algorithms. Cause here’s one of the things that’s going to be really, really tricky for brands, especially in like these industries that I’ve worked in, like consumer goods and

Food is the algorithms have a very strong bias towards store brands and private label. Now it’s not because they’re tilting the scale in their favor. It’s just that in an agentic world, think about what consumers are going to do. They’re almost going to be brand agnostic. And they say, give me good product at a good price for my family of four, right?

And they’re they might even set a spec, like it’s gotta have X percent product performance. And then the algorithms are gonna do their homework and they’re come back and they say Kirkland. And then they’re gonna be saying Kirkland, Walmart equate. Because you’re gonna find that these store brands where where the and retailers are getting really good at volunteering what their products do, even their green scores, where you know, if you if we overdelegate to agents, I do think brands are in for a really rude awakening that a lot of the

Neville Hobson (49:54)
Mm-hmm.

Pete Blackshaw (50:13)
Grocery lists are full of private label. you know, where it may be the Kirkland product may be 90% of the product superiority of the comparable brand, but at like half the price. And so this is where, you know, so brands, so what brands are gonna have to do, whether they’re preparing for tough questions from consumers like us, or preparing for these agents that are gonna go looking for relevant data to kind of render a judgment, they’re still gonna have to train them.

They’re gonna have to really think about, you know, how to do that the right way. Now we may see different things evolve. Like I’ve talked a lot about the word rep website. I’m probably gonna write a column that suggests that maybe we need a new name called, you know, like a an inventory locker that’s kind of like very, very agent, agent, agent friendly. But but yeah, I think I think brands, yeah, everybody’s waxing poet have got agents, but I keep reminding brands like careful what you ask for on this one.

because you are not prepared and you are going to be really, really surprised at what these agents are recommending. And you’re going to probably lose even more control. So brands are going to have to really think about that one carefully.

Neville Hobson (51:24)
So to that point then, if AI agents increasingly recommend products, services, suppliers, even employers, companies to work for, for instance, what happens to traditional brand marketing?

Pete Blackshaw (51:38)
Well, think it’s gonna have to wrap around a lot of that. I mean these some of you know, listen, I mean branding has always been in the you know, content marketing’s been a big thing well before AI, but they will have to, you know, keep doing some of that, but they may need to dial down the BS factor, they may need to dial down the hyperbole, they may have to dial down the exaggeration.

I mean, here’s one of the things that’s happening. You’ve got two very interesting trends going on. You’ve got the answer economy, you got the creator economy. Everybody at con was gaga about the creator economy. And there’s no question the creator economy is creating massive reach. But hey, one of the interesting things about the creator economy, they do not index in answer engines. Maybe a little bit meta because they’ve got tick to they’ve got, you know, Instagram and but generally, you know, the creators are not getting the love from the answer engines. And why is that?

I think they’re very hesitant. There tends to be a lot of hyperbole and a exaggeration among the crater economy about what the products do. And I think and and sometimes they’re paid, but they’re not disclosed. And so it’s just it’s just it’s a it’s a less it’s a complicated area for the algorithms to kind of take seriously. And so I just think, you know, all these things are gonna have to be really, really carefully thought, you know, thought through, you know, as pr as brands try to

Neville Hobson (52:35)
Hm.

Pete Blackshaw (53:00)
You know, you know, I th I I probably haven’t used the word trust enough. I think what’s gonna be more important than ever goes back to our very, very conver very first conversation when we’re talking about the the rise of blogs. But yeah, brand trust will be critical. And I do think the brands that really think hard about what that means are gonna win. And I know brand trust tends to be a little fluffy. Every I’ve even had investors like, what the hell? How the hell the hell does trust sell cases? But we all know that.

Trust is the currency of advertising in all relationships. And I think AI is just gonna magnify that in a big way. So brands are probably gonna have to really double down in that particular area.

Shel Holtz (53:43)
What about B to B? is is it the same situation? do they need to think differently? No different.

Pete Blackshaw (53:47)
No different.

No different. I mean, every B2B supplier is using Chat GBT to vet other suppliers to vet. If anything, I think B2B is gonna get a massive turbocharge. I do think AI systems are, you know, you know, I I have to worry about that too. It’s like I got RFPs with other, you know, big companies, and you know, they’re kind of using AI to basically kind of, you know, do their research on us versus competition, but

No, I think it’s it’s kinda shy. I mean, I and I’ve done scorecards. I’ve done I have all sorts of indexes that I’ve created, including a B to B one on what are the best vendors across all these different areas, who shows up, who doesn’t. And now there may be certain my guess isn’t on the B to B side, Claude will again probably be the one that is most most focused on. Actually I th I think copilot isn’t bad either, but

But yeah, there probably will be some favorites that the procurement officers use as they’re trying to figure out who’s the right vendor that’s that’s that’s out there. But zero difference in my view.

Neville Hobson (54:55)
Hm. Okay. So what would you advise communication professionals to start doing differently tomorrow morning?

Pete Blackshaw (55:03)
Well, I think they need to look in the mirror, which is, you know, an AI is a mirror and they should, you know, really get their organization internalizing this new reality that your brand is as strong as its answers and these new influencers are shaping their answers. And so I would number two, I would tell every communications professional that they have more leverage than they realize. That brand website, especially the corporate website, which I think generally are more optimized for curiosity than brand sites. Brand sites are very optimized for conversion.

If you go to a corporate site, you know, Nestle.com, I think they’ve done a really, really good job. They even have a section called Ask Nestle, which I love, and have encouraged them to kind of take to the next level. But all that probably is more valuable than it was a year ago. And I would I wouldn’t, you know, and I think some of those things are underfunded. some of them are afterthoughts. Some of those are like, that’s the brochure, but that is really.

powerful. And I also think corporate communications in particular has a lot of leverage to lead because it’s really hard to get like fifty brands within the franchise to kind of like get their act together. And I do think the book of truth may be best developed at the corporate level. But then again, it has to be tomorrow’s definition of corporate communications. I think if you ask brands, they’d say corporate communications is is backwards. They slow things down.

They’re naysayers. They’re not a progressive force in the organization. They’re overly conservative. And if I were heading corporate communications, I would be, no, no, no, no, no. We can actually, we are the lever to win in the answer economy. We have always been sensitive about substance, you know, you know, doing what we say, checking off the compliance boxes. Those, those are all the things that really matter to the LLMs. So yeah, if I were giving that that.

Neville Hobson (56:44)
Mm.

Pete Blackshaw (57:10)
that college football speech to, you know, corporate communications, I would be saying, My friends, this is your day. And let’s look in the mirror and let’s go. And let’s make our CEO a hero because, you know, the the the stakes are going to go up. We’re not going to get the credit we deserve unless we’re more proactive. But we can. Something like that.

Shel Holtz (57:30)
Yeah, remember Richard Edelman saying that about social media and it just didn’t happen. Pete, you probably remember from your previous appearances that we always end with the same question, and that is what didn’t we ask that we probably should have, or that you were expecting us to?

Neville Hobson (57:31)
Yeah.

Pete Blackshaw (57:48)
gosh, what didn’t you ask?

I don’t know. Fair You you do I was surprised you didn’t ask, so Pete did you use AI to help write your book? You know.

Shel Holtz (58:02)
Yeah.

Neville Hobson (58:04)
But

but but you did. In fact, you got a really good page in the in the galleys that I saw explain yeah. Yeah, i that is super what you wrote, really, really and truly. It a it adds

Pete Blackshaw (58:08)
Did you like that? I love that page. I love that.

I love that. And I

did well the funny thing is like I’ve been listening, I mean, you know, sometimes I’ll take a chapter, throw it in a clod and say, Tell I’m fully shit. You know, it’s like but it was all me, but it did help me navigate. And I have this term that I use called dog walk journalism. I’ll take my dog on a walk and I’ll bark out my random thoughts. And AI is wonderful at connecting the first thought with the last thought and kind of giving you a starting point. But but I did have this really intense editor, her name was Angela Morrison.

And she was actually the editor, the partner to William Sapphire, who wrote the column on language. So she was really good. She had this really intense long island draw. And she’s Pete, don’t take it personally, but I am totally blunt. But my gosh, she like took me to town on indefinite pronouns. I thought I felt like I had never learned writing, but that was like the great, it was like a great human in the loop epiphany because she was hitting things that even the LLMs

Neville Hobson (58:59)
Yeah.

Shel Holtz (59:04)
Ha ha ha.

Pete Blackshaw (59:12)
Could not catch. And I I was reading the book. I was like, my God, I’m so blessed to have had a really good editors. So

Shel Holtz (59:19)
If I ever work with her, I’ll

Neville Hobson (59:20)
Brilliant.

Shel Holtz (59:21)
be sure to have my copies strunken white by my side.

Pete Blackshaw (59:24)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And if you know of any, you know, you guys bump into all sorts of folks and cor my one of my goals, I really want to wake up a lot of corporate communications departments. That’s that’s my sweet spot. I’ve always loved the balance of brand defense and offense. But the offense, the defense side is I I think more urgent and more challenging. So yeah, as you know, you know, I’m doing a lot of I’ll be doing a lot of wake up calls, speeches and workshops. But yeah, if you know folks that need the help, let me know.

Shel Holtz (59:53)
And how can people get in touch with you?

Pete Blackshaw (59:56)
just Pete at brandrank.ai or the answer economy dot com. or they just type my name into an answer engine and you know they can they can they can vet me first and but yeah, it’s in in I’ll I’ll give it to you as well when you advertise the the the the the podcast. But yeah, it was great talking to you guys. I miss I miss our conversations.

Neville Hobson (1:00:16)
Guys.

Yeah, likewise. That was good. Appreciate it.

Shel Holtz (1:00:22)
Yeah, thanks so much, Pete.

Pete Blackshaw (1:00:23)
You bet. Always.

The post AI, trust and the answer economy – Pete Blackshaw on the future of brand credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Everyone from CEOs to politicians has been talking about the likelihood of AI-related job loss, and several companies have already let people go in anticipation that AI can do their work. Ford Motor Company is the latest to rehire those workers when AI proved inadequate for the job. Elsewhere, many of the managers who have let people go regret their decisions, and some companies are revising their hiring plans. To remedy the chaos, Neville and Shel discuss the importance of strategy and knowledge management systems, among other things.

Links from this episode:

• ‘Talent refresh’ | Ford rehires human staff after AI quality-check tools fail to deliver
• Ford rehires human engineers after AI fails to match quality checks
• Return of the ‘greybeards’: AI backfired – so Ford had to rehire humans
• Ford Has Been Rehiring Quality Inspectors After AI Fell Short
• Ford rehires ‘greybeards’ after AI tech fails to deliver

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 27.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw Transcript:

Shel Holtz
Hi everybody, and welcome to episode number 521 of For Immediate Release. I’m Shel Holtz

Neville Hobson
And I’m Neville Hobson. Here’s a story that should make every one of us pause before we get too comfortable handing things over to AI. Ford, the automaker, has just rehired somewhere between three hundred and three hundred and fifty veteran engineers. Note the word rehired. The company had let them go in recent years as it leaned into AI-driven quality checks. Ford calls them greybeard engineers. That’s not a throwaway nickname. It’s the whole point of the story. These are the people with decades of experience across multiple product cycles, and Ford let a lot of them go only to discover it needed them back because the AI wasn’t working the way Ford expected. We’ll look into what happened right after this Charles Poon, Ford’s vice president of vehicle hardware engineering, put it plainly on a call with reporters. Here’s what he said: “Mistakenly, we thought that by just introducing artificial intelligence and ingesting the design requirements that we had, that would produce a high-quality product.” Think about that for a moment. Ford didn’t skip a step. They fed the AI everything that was written down, every design requirement, every documented specification. It still wasn’t enough. And it wasn’t just one system. Ford had installed around nine hundred AI-assisted cameras on the production line specifically to catch quality issues. Nine hundred cameras, and still they couldn’t replace the trained eye of an experienced technician who knows what a problem looks like before it becomes a visible defect. Ford’s chief operating officer, Kumar Galhotra, added more context. He said the company had been leaning more and more on automated quality systems, and the results were disappointing. Teams across software, hardware, manufacturing, and supply chain had also been working in isolation from each other, which meant defects were being caught late and fixed under pressure rather than prevented early. Galhotra described this as a find and fix mentality that Ford is now trying to move away from towards genuinely preventing problems before they start. The returning engineers sit right at the center of that shift. They now run mandatory weekly quality and design reviews, hunting for failure points before a single part reaches the factory floor And here’s the part I think matters most for us. A lot of the people who held that hard-won judgment had already walked out the door to suppliers, to retirement before anyone at Ford thought to capture what was in their heads. Poon admitted as much. “Over prior years, we didn’t pay as much attention as we should have to the experience of our most knowledgeable engineers who have been with us through many product cycles,” he said. So Ford had to buy that expertise back three years into this process at real cost. Was it worth it? By Ford’s own numbers, yes. The company has just topped the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey for mainstream brands for the first time since twenty-ten. That’s sixteen years. CEO Jim Farley says the rehired engineers are already contributing what he called literally hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in savings, largely through reduced warranty and recall costs. Ford’s even projecting around a billion dollars in cost reduction this year on the back of this quality push. Now, here’s a tension worth sitting with. This is the same Jim Farley who said publicly on other occasions that AI is gonna replace rough-roughly half of all white-collar jobs. And yet here’s his own vice president standing in front of journalists explaining that Ford’s entire quality turnaround depended on bringing back the very human expertise the company thought it could do without. To be clear, this isn’t really a story about AI failing and humans winning. Ford isn’t walking away from AI. Those returning engineers aren’t just doing inspections. They’re training junior staff, and they’re reprogramming the AI tools themselves, feeding them the judgment that design requirements alone couldn’t capture. It’s a hybrid fix, not a retreat. But for anyone in our line of work, comms, knowledge management, anyone thinking about where AI fits into institutional expertise, there’s a sharp lesson underneath all of this. Documentation isn’t the same as judgment, and once the people carrying that judgment are gone, you don’t get it back for free or quickly or easily. I think there’s a bigger question here, too, about how organizations are handling this handover between human expertise and automation, and whether Ford’s experience is a one-off or a warning sign for a lot more companies than just car manufacturers. Shel

Shel Holtz
Yeah, I think it is a warning sign. But I, I don’t think it’s a trend necessarily, the idea that AI AI layoffs are being reversed everywhere. Yeah I’d just be careful about overstating that. There’s really only a handful of well-documented company examples of this. I think it’s easier to say that the way many organizations overestimated how quickly AI could substitute for the experienced judgment of their staff, I think that’s a reasonable way to look at it. Increasing number are recalibrating toward AI human collaboration rather than there are examples though. IBM has reversed course. They didn’t rehire the same people, but they’ve really reversed course on this whole replacement idea. An AI system deployed to take over HR work handled about 94% of incoming requests, but the 6% it couldn’t resolve including situations in- involving ethical judgment, really revealed the limits of all of this into the hands of a large language model. And then the company announced that it planned to triple its US entry-level hiring this year. That’s a pretty significant reversal. Klarna’s the one that … that’s the poster child for all of this. They were one of the first to announce that they were going to replace their customer service with AI. A year later their CEO publicly reversed course, admitting that customer experience had gone down the tank, quality had fallen the company had over-prioritized cost savings which most companies seem to be doing. They’re looking at cost savings and not other ways AI could really improve things or even help the organization grow and that human customer service remained essential. So they went back to hiring customer service representatives, and they expanded their human support. They la- even reassigned engineers and marketers into customer support roles while they were busy rebuilding the support organization that they had decimated. CEO, I think it was he who was quoted saying, “Cost, unfortunately, seems to have been too predominant evaluation factor.” that said I think it is worth noting that according to one research organization, I hadn’t heard of them before, but OrgView, 39% of business leaders made employees redundant due to AI deployment, and among that number, 55% admit that wrong decisions about those redundancies made, 32% of US hiring managers said they eliminated a role primarily due to AI later rehired for the same or similar positions, that according to Robert Half. This is definitely something we need to be looking at. I think what Ford has done is, as you say a warning sign, but I don’t think there’s a clear trend yet that people who off in order to accommodate AI are suddenly reversing and rehiring yet

Neville Hobson
No, I agree. That doesn’t seem to be a trend. What is a trend is the laying off element of it as opposed to rehiring. So the… I think there, there’s a good question for our audience in all of this. How many organizations right now are automating roles without first extracting what the people they’re letting go know, their knowledge? Ford’s mistake wasn’t using AI, I mentioned earlier. It was letting the knowledge holders leave before capturing anything from them. That’s a sequencing failure, not a technology failure. So is knowledge capture before AI rollout ever ac-actually built into transformation plans, I wonder? Or is it always an afterthought that only gets addressed once something breaks?

Shel Holtz
It’s an interesting question.

Neville Hobson
Yeah.

Shel Holtz
when we first started this show 21 years ago, knowledge management was a big issue, and we talked about knowledge management and knowledge management systems, and they have fallen by the wayside even though there are still efforts to build them out. I think the need for clean, consistent data in order to run AI inside your organization is bringing the idea back, although not with the kind of notoriety that it had. There were books being written about knowledge management back 20, 20 years ago. But knowledge capture is an interesting thing because, there’s so much ta- tacit knowledge walks out the door and goes home every night. It’s not implicit knowledge that you can store in a database, and this was the problem with knowledge management systems, right? Is you’re trying to capture tacit knowledge, and it had to be tagged, which meant the people looking for it had to know which tag was used in order to retrieve it. That knowledge could be sitting there, but if you’re searching with the wrong tag, you’ll never find it. So it, it remains a challenge how to do this. I remember one effort at knowledge capture. Was it Intel? I’m gonna struggle to remember, but it was an early wiki where people would just leave their knowledge that occurred to them. “Oh, this is how you do this,” and they were trying to capture it that way. I don’t know if that’s still around. I never hear about it anymore. I- like I expect, I can’t even remember for sure what company it was, but have been efforts at this.

Neville Hobson
Yeah

Shel Holtz
and with the AI situation and companies like Ford finding the knowledge isn’t there once the people leave and the AI isn’t equipped to handle everything just based on was in the databases that it had been fed, I think we’re gonna have to revisit this whole idea of knowledge management and get it right this time because it’s still far from perfect

Neville Hobson
Yeah. Thinking about Jim Farley and what he said that AI will replace half of white-collar work, while his own VP describes a turnaround built on rehiring the humans they’d let go. I-is this Ford being inconsistent, or is it actually a realistic picture, AI displacing some roles while creating new dependency on a smaller pool of s- pool of senior experts? I wonder if that’s it. There’s also a related point to that. Could this be a warning? You, y-you mentioned– You used that word a minute ago in this case about h-hollowing out effect. If companies keep pushing out mid-career and senior staff in favor of AI, who trains the next generation of greybeards when today’s greybeards retire for good? ‘Cause that will happen sooner or later.

Shel Holtz
There’s also this idea of institutional knowledge that is not necessarily captured in any systems. It’s because they have been there, as was pointed out in this article, through multiple product cycles. There are things that they learned that are not a specific quality measure or whatever it is that they’re using in their work that now is gonna be done by the AI. They bring that institutional knowledge to the job, and y- you may not need as many of them as you had before if the AI can legitimately do some of this work. But some of those people who have been there through those product cycles and have acquired that institutional knowledge, they’re still gonna need to be there. I don’t know how you capture institutional knowledge. I have seen this in an organization that shall remain unnamed, but that you and I are b- both very familiar with, that, that hollowed out staff and let its institutional knowledge go, and is paying a dear price for that

Neville Hobson
Yeah. It got me thinking a bit about I guess drawing upon some science fiction movies that I’ve seen over the years but also now looking at where we are with technology tools that make it very easy for people to literally dump their knowledge about something into a device or a system that records that saves it. Could we be seeing a, the beginnings of something or the idea certainly that may catch on with people that this needs to be built into behaviors in an organization that depending on your role, and I can’t say it could be everyone, but maybe it should be, that you’ve got some means that you work on a project and part of your in a sense, your the kind of conditions of your employment, let’s say, is that on completing a project or planning a project and then com- wha- whatever it might be, you’ve gotta record your thoughts on the planning and execution of that project how you did this or that. And that’s then saved. Okay. I haven’t– I’m not even getting into privacy i-issues or data protection or none of that. That may well be the case. I’m thinking of one science fiction film I saw where, a few, some years ago now, where people had, It reminds me of Plaud, actually, a little credit card sized tool.

Shel Holtz
say

Neville Hobson
Yeah.

Shel Holtz
that. Yep

Neville Hobson
That they spoke into, recorded something. It then saved it to their account, let’s say, on their employer’s website or someplace or whatever it might be, that then broke it down into all the constituent elements that the company needed to have in order to retrieve that information on demand or make use of it in some other way. So some of the tech exists to do that, but certainly not on an organized scale such as what we’re discussing that might be. But how long might it be before that happens?

Shel Holtz
Aside from the privacy concerns, wearing a device that captures everything you say, having all of that from all employees fed to an AI that’s able to sort it out and put it in the appropriate place so that now that becomes part of its knowledge base, I can see that. I just can’t see employees tolerating it very well. I certainly wouldn’t want to have every word I’m saying during the day recorded and saved by the organization, and I’m a senior executive. That’s just ethically wrong I think. But technically I think we’re not that far away from

Neville Hobson
No, we’re not. We’re not.

Shel Holtz
do that now

Neville Hobson
You raise a good point but I would counter that in a sense arguing that it’s gonna be if you don’t do it, someone else is gonna do it, and you’re out of a job if you don’t do that. I’m thinking of some of the things that you see around you nowadays as a matter of course, ranging from things like police, ambulance workers fire department people wearing video camera, body cams that record everything. I have a friend of mine who’s just bought one that he feels safe wearing this on his commute to work on the train. He goes to London and then on the underground train. I can, I can–

Shel Holtz
use case. These are, these f- yeah I think,

Neville Hobson
it’s not. It’s not. It’s rec- it records the picture of him. That could be– The purposes might be very different, but the tech would be the same.

Shel Holtz
Oh, the text’s the same. The

Neville Hobson
Yeah.

Shel Holtz
is

Neville Hobson
Yeah. For now it is. Yeah, it is. But this could become a matter of course. I’ve considered that too. If I were still actively working in a traditional job, getting in a commute to London or whatever it might be, I would probably get a body cam

Shel Holtz
Yeah, the okay, the use case there is voluntary, right? You choose

Neville Hobson
I do have that choice

Shel Holtz
Think of Meta, which was capturing the keystrokes of every employee in order to train its models, and the opposis- opposition to that grew so loud that they recently said, “Okay, this is now a voluntary program. Only employees who opt in will have their keystrokes recorded.” And it– now you’re talking about every

Neville Hobson
Yeah, I know, but,

Shel Holtz
the workplace?

Neville Hobson
sure.

Shel Holtz
gonna happen. Yeah.

Neville Hobson
so this is– enters that bigger debate precisely on is it gonna happen or is it not? So in the case of Meta, what they did, I’m thinking back now to the Cambridge Analytica scandal of twenty eighteen, they did this ov- covertly without telling people, and then they lied about it all. So why the hell would you work for a company like that in the first place? That, crosses, crosses my mind. But

Shel Holtz
Yeah

Neville Hobson
I think the one other point occurs to me that the in the case of Ford, that has got me thinking. The fix they had, i.e., rehiring the people they, they got rid of, works because those engineers were still available to rehire, right? So what happens to the next company that has the same realization five or ten years from now when the generation with that tacit knowledge has genuinely retired and isn’t coming back? That’s arguably the real warning sign, not this instance, but the next one

Shel Holtz
Oh, absolutely. They’re gonna have to go for the next best thing, which is hiring humans that can handle the more complex problems that arise, but they don’t have the institutional knowledge. They haven’t been through any product life cycles. Maybe they hire away from competitors. Maybe they hire their old engineers back by offering them more money than they ever dreamed of, but yeah, that sort of defeats the purpose too, doesn’t it? No, I think what has to happen is that the companies that are considering replacing people with AI don’t just count the number of who are doing the job and how much an AI can conceivably do, and then get rid of the equivalent number of staffers. You’ve gotta be really strategic about this. I think you need to inventory all of the tasks that you’re talking about performing and identify which of those are better done by AI. Heaven knows there are things that AI is not good at,

Neville Hobson
Yeah

Shel Holtz
pretty widely recognized sets of activities. So looking at what you’re gonna need people for and then determining, okay, if we’re gonna let people go how many we still need in order to avoid the kind of outcome that Ford experienced? And I think if they’re strategic, if they apply some formulas to this again, inventorying absolutely every task you’re gonna be looking at replacing and figuring out which of those are going to work with AI you’re probably gonna end up making better decisions and not have to do what Ford did. The other thing that I would look at though is how does all of this align with your values? Because no matter what you do, it is in conflict with your stated corporate values, which are hanging on the wall in the conference rooms and, employees have copies of them, and in my company, they’re on every truck that’s out there you’re gonna end up with a very disengaged cynical workforce

Neville Hobson
Yeah. The cynical part of me suggests that’s actually happening a lot already. G-question mark, do they really believe those values on the side of the trucks down the road, all that kind of stuff? So it’s a kind of fluid environment we seem to be in. And I’m wondering w- as well, will we begin to see, I don’t know on your CV or your resume on LinkedIn one of your major selling points is gonna be the fact that you have deep institutional knowledge. You probably wouldn’t wanna say about your employer, but what you really want to be saying is about the industry or about something that sa- that kinda says, “I’m very portable from the get-go.” So maybe we’re gonna see that

Shel Holtz
Oh, could be. It would certainly be better than open to work as a little arc on the pr-profile photo on LinkedIn. And that’ll be a 30 for this episode of “For Immediate Release.”

The post FIR #521: AI Layoffs Are Here. Wait. Strike That. Reverse It. appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Local newsrooms keep shrinking, journalism schools keep closing their doors, and the reporters who remain are stretched thinner than ever. For organizational communicators, that shift changes the math on media relations. It’s no longer enough to know how to write a pitch. You need to understand who’s left to receive it, what standards still govern their work, and how to build the kind of relationship that gets your story told well instead of not at all.

Circle of Fellows #131 will feature four IABC Fellows with deep backgrounds in journalism and media relations. Moderated by Shel Holtz, SCMP, the panel will discuss what’s changed in the newsroom, what hasn’t, and what it means for the way communicators do their jobs.

The panel will dig into what that means day to day for communicators, including:

• Thinking local and strategic. Where does your story actually need to go, and which relationships and networks get it there?
• Knowing journalistic standards and principles (JSPs). Understanding what reporters can and can’t do — and where the real limits are — makes for smarter pitches and fewer frustrated calls.
• Respecting deadlines and information needs. How communicators and journalists can work together, rather than at cross purposes, to produce the stories both sides actually want.
• Getting to know the people in your “journalism ‘hood.” In a shrunken media landscape, personal relationships with the reporters who remain matter more than ever.

Join us for this hour-long conversation, live on Thursday, July 23, at noon ET. You’ll be able to ask questions and share your own experiences with the panel in real time. Can’t make it live? The video replay and audio podcast will be available afterward.

About the panel:

Diana Degan, IABC Fellow, ABC, CAAP, BAAJ, is the founder of Diana Degan & Associates. Diana is an award-winning communication leader, educator, and strategic advisor whose 35-year career has strengthened communication practice, elevated professional standards, and advanced human-centered communication across Canada and beyond. She has led work spanning the full spectrum of the profession, from strategic planning, brand development, and integrated marketing communications to crisis communications, stakeholder engagement, internal communications, and accessibility-focused communication design.

Edward “Ned” Lundquist is a retired U.S. Navy captain with 43 years of professional public affairs and strategic communications experience. His company, Echo Bridge LLC, which provides outreach and advocacy support to government and commercial clients. He served on active duty for 24 years in the U.S. Navy as a surface warfare officer and public affairs specialist. Captain Lundquist was a Pentagon spokesman with the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs, Director of the Fleet Home Town News Center, and director of public affairs and corporate communications for the Navy Exchange Service Command. His last tour of duty was commanding the 450 men and women of the Naval Media Center. He is an accredited business communicator and award-winning communicator who served as president of IABC/Hampton Roads and IABC/Washington, director of U.S. District 3, and chair of the International Accreditation Council. He was named an IABC Fellow in 2016. Captain Lundquist received the Surface Navy Association’s Special Recognition Award in January of this year, for his service on SNA’s executive committee and chair of the SNA communications committee. He writes for numerous naval, maritime, and defense publications and chairs and presents at communications, naval, and maritime security conferences around the world.

Martha Muzychka, ABC, MC, speaks, writes, listens, and helps others do the same to make change happen. Martha is a strategic, creative problem solver seeking challenging communications environments where we can make a difference. She helps her clients navigate competing priorities and embrace communication challenges. Martha offers strategic planning, facilitation, consultation services, writing and editing, qualitative research, and policy analysis. Her work has been recognized locally, nationally, and internationally with multiple awards.

Jennifer Wah, MC, ABC, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. With more than two dozen awards for strategic communications, writing, and consulting, Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare and academia to financial services and the resource sector, and is passionate about the strategic use of storytelling to support business outcomes. Although she has delivered workshops and training throughout her career, Jennifer formally added teaching to her experience in 2013, first with Royal Roads University and more recently as an adjunct professor of business communications with the UBC Sauder School of Business, where she now works part-time to impart crucial communication skills on the next generation of business leaders. When she is not working, Jennifer spends her time cooking, walking her dog, Orion, or discussing food, hockey, or music with her husband and two young adult children in North Vancouver, Canada.

The post Coming Up on Circle of Fellows: The Evolving Media Landscape and the Value of Ethical Journalism appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Kenvue’s stock tumbled when U.S. President Donald Trump, with Health & Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., standing behind him, declared that its product, Tylenol, leads to autism in children when taken by mothers during pregnancy. As social channels were flooded with misinformation supporting the evidenceless claim, it’s easy to imagine the stock continuing to slide, mirroring the trajectory launched by attacks on Bud Light.

Remarkably, the stock recovered after one day, thanks largely to Tylenol’s savvy and almost perfect response to the crisis.

Tylenol isn’t the first brand to find itself in President Trump’s crosshairs. It is unlikely to be the last. In this short, midweek episode, Neville and Shel explore what the company got right, and what other companies can do to prepare for their turn in the glare of the presidential spotlight.

Links from this episode:

• The US President Called Your Product Dangerous. What Do You Do Now? – Darden Report Online
• How Companies Can Respond To Allegations Their Products Are Dangerous
• Tylenol says old post ‘taken of out context’ by White House
• Tylenol maker responds to Trump’s acetaminophen claims
• Tylenol is Just the Latest Brand Trump Has Picked a Fight With
• Tylenol’s Maker Shows How to Respond to Crisis
• Tylenol maker shares rebound a day after Trump’s unfounded claims about its safety
• Lawsuits against Tylenol’s maker get a boost after Trump’s comments
• Tylenol Issues Clarification After White House Resurfaces 2017 Tweet on Usage During Pregnancy
• ‘Highly concerning’: Major medical groups react to Trump’s claim that Tylenol is linked to autism

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, October 27.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw Transcript

@nevillehobson (00:00)
Hi everyone, and welcome to episode number 483 of For Immediate Release. I’m Neville Hobson in the UK.

Shel Holtz (00:07)
And this is Shel Holtz in the U.S.

If you manage a brand today, here’s a scenario you actually have to plan for. A single, high-profile figure with a massive audience declares your product dangerous without credible evidence. And the story just blows up across cable, X, TikTok, the news. This is not a hypothetical. That’s where Tylenol found itself after President Trump asserted that acetaminophen taken during pregnancy can lead to autism.

The claim doesn’t hold up to scientific scrutiny, but it did what these claims always do. It spread, it stuck, and it spooked people. So what do you do when your product is suddenly the villain of the day? The Darden School at the University of Virginia framed the choice starkly. You can keep your head down and hope the cycle moves on, or you can push back fast, clearly, and repeatedly. Their advice leans hard to option two, anchored in what they call the four Ts.

timeliness, transparency, trust, and tenacity. Respond quickly, show your work, over-communicate the facts, and stick with it longer than the news cycle would suggest. Importantly, don’t get into a personality contest with the attacker. Keep it respectful but firm, and put your history, your standards, and your science front and center. Crisis pros will recognize that playbook. Forbes Crisis columnist Edward Siegel made a similar argument the same day.

Assume confusion is your default environment. Get your narrative out immediately and synchronize legal, medical, and corporate voices before the vacuum fills with speculation. He also stresses preparation. If you wait to write the plan until you’re trending, you’re already too late. So how did Tylenol’s maker Kenview do? On speed and tone, they moved quickly and they stayed in their lane. In on-air and short-form video responses, they reiterated a constant message.

Acetaminophen remains the recommended first-line option for pain and fever in pregnancy when used as directed, and their guidance has not changed. No name-calling, no politics, just reinforcement of established guidance and a promise to keep sharing facts as they have them. They also benefited from credible third parties saying what they couldn’t credibly say about themselves.

And I remember this from my days at Allergan. We had a medical advisory board made up of ophthalmologists that we could turn to to make public statements. They didn’t receive money from us. They were volunteers, but they were tied to us. They were familiar with our products and could be very, very helpful as credible third party voices. In the Tylenol case, major medical organizations publicly pushed back on the claim.

@nevillehobson (02:39)
and

Shel Holtz (02:53)
emphasizing the lack of evidence for a causal link and the potential risks of not treating fever during pregnancy. That chorus was immediate and visible in mainstream coverage, which matters because parents weren’t going to go spelunking in PubMed in the middle of a scare. They wanted to hear doctors on the six o’clock news. Another thing Kenview got right, they didn’t let market rumors set the narrative. While the stock dipped on day one, as you might expect,

It rebounded the next day as cooler heads and clearer information landed. That’s a reminder to communicators that investors are another primary audience in these moments. You can’t let medical misinformation turn into a capital market story because you were slow to brief. There was also a potential booby trap that Kenview navigated reasonably well. An old context-free social post about pregnant women avoiding Tylenol started recirculating.

and was seized on by partisan accounts as an aha proof point. The brand clarified the context and restated its guidance. The lesson for the rest of us is that social archeology is part of the crisis prep. Now, you need a rapid old posts review the moment a story breaks so you can get ahead of whatever’s about to be resurfaced. Zooming out, there are broader takeaways for communicators whose brands could be targeted by a political figure or

anyone with a megaphone and a base. First, build your science bench before you need it. You want independent credentialed experts ready to validate or correct claims within hours, not days. That means pre-briefing medical societies, key opinion leaders, and credible third party validators about your safety data and your monitoring plan. The Darden piece got it right. Facts alone rarely win the day, but facts delivered by trusted humans stand a fighting chance. Second,

Treat employees as a primary audience. In moments like this, they’re your most important ambassadors and your most vulnerable stakeholders. Darden explicitly calls out the need to communicate aggressively with your own employees. Give them the message, the FAQs and the why, and equip managers to handle tough conversations at the school gate, the church picnic, and inside the store aisle. Third, scenario test the politics.

This is not a normal product risk issue, it’s identity content. You can expect pylons, boycotts, and gotcha screenshots. Prepare neutral, values-based language that focuses on consumer safety and evidence, not the personalities involved. Resist the temptation to litigate the attacker’s credibility. Let other people do that. In this case, RFK, there are plenty of people piling on him. You don’t need to do that as the brand. Your brand should sound like the adult in the room.

Fourth, integrate legal early, but don’t let them throttle your speed. You can say quite a lot quite fast without increasing liability. Reaffirm established guidance linked to authoritative sources, explain how you evaluate safety signals, and spell out what you’re doing next. The clock is your biggest risk variable. Finally, run an always-on listening program that’s tuned not just to your brand terms, but to the themes and communities.

that could turn you into the next culture war football. When the first sparks fly, rapid response should include fact cards, short explainers on video and exec posts that can be embedded by newsrooms and creators alike because that’s how information travels now. So what kind of grade would we give Kenview? On the essentials, speed, message discipline, reliance on credible third parties and investor signaling.

I think it’s a solid B plus, A minus. There’s room to go further on pre-bunking misinformation with evergreen explainers that can be resurfaced instantly and on employee and retailer toolkits for frontline conversations. But in a modern misinformation storm, their posture, firm, factual, and unflappable, was the right one. And for the rest of us, the homework is clear. Write the plan now, build the bench now.

and decide in advance how you’ll sound when that moment comes because at some point for some brand it’s coming.

@nevillehobson (07:10)
It’s quite a story, isn’t it, Shell? I mean, it’s listening to how you explained it all, thinking this is probably one of those moments for any large brand, I suppose, who could think that could be us because you have a critic in the form of the U.S. president who comes out with things, says things. And as all the reporting I’ve seen talks about with that, shred of car sign evidence to back up his claims.

but plenty of factual information has been around for long time that challenge it totally to dismiss it all. Could that happen to, let’s say, know, Ford Motor Company, one of their carts where President Trump is going to say this car is dreadful, they’ve had 50 recalls, which isn’t true, of course, and people have died needlessly through car accidents because they didn’t take care of whatever. The next day or the day after it’s dismissed as but in the meantime,

you know, 50 buyers across the US aren’t going to buy that truck anymore. So things like that. It’s that’s the environment, isn’t it? You can’t, you can’t plan for that normally. But we’re not in a normal landscape, are we? If this kind of thing goes on.

Shel Holtz (08:16)
No, not at all. And the Darden piece did make the point that you need to prepare for boycotts. They’re going to happen in this environment. this response that we saw from Darden and from others in terms of how Kenview, the maker of Tylenol, handled it, focused on products that are science-based. There are other products out there that are more engineering-based or based on some other field.

that could easily become targets as well. And we talk about Trump with this type of behavior, but remember this is something that his secretary of health and human services presented to him that then he then presented. And I think what you’re going to see in the post Trump Republican party is respect for his playbook. And you’re going to see this kind of behavior continue.

under a prospective president Vance, for example, or at the state level with the governors. And I don’t wanna limit this to the political right. I people who see this working on the extreme left could end up employing the same tactics. You can’t look at this as a communicator, as a political thing, even though that’s exactly what it is.

which is why the advice from Darden, which is exactly what Kenview did, was don’t engage at the political level, engage at the scientific level, engage at the fact level, but stay away from pointing fingers or getting into a one-on-one argument with a political figure.

@nevillehobson (09:47)
The difficulty though, particularly in the United States, I would say, Sheldon, is that we’re at a moment where everything is polarized completely. And so you’re out there with facts, scientific evidence, the works. And there is this group over here who’ve got their spin on the facts and they’ve got loud voices and a lot of people listen to them.

potentially, I would argue inclined to listen to that kind of denial, like the anti-vaxxers and all these conspiracy theorists. So we would bring out those kinds of people, in which case, it’s almost like you’re damned if you do, you’re damned if you don’t. If you don’t say anything, you’re damned. If you do say anything, you’re damned. But I think that that’s the additional challenge. And I would say you still got to go out there with factual scientific backed information or whatever, as advised by the

the folks you’ve been quoting. But it’s not a not a pretty place to be a player in. Because it could go horribly wrong. Your jet your attention is on you no matter what. And is it your story that people are paying attention to or the other guy’s story? Or is it a big question mark, people start then questioning all the scientific evidence which has already happened with this. So I seen quite a bit.

here in the UK of talk about this in the mainstream media, plus in medical journals, too. The medical journals actually have been extremely forthright in their dismissal of Trump’s claims, which is really mirroring what others are saying in dismissing it. There’s no evidence to prove this. Yet I wonder, as we’ve talked before, and it’s kind of the basics of how you plan a crisis communication.

approach, I suppose, where logic isn’t what is going to work. Ultimately, it’s the emotional element. I don’t know what that translates as something like this. You got to stick to your guns, of course. And if you do have facts, you shouldn’t not produce them simply because others criticize them and saying they’re denying them saying this is fake. So and in fact, challenging those people logically just doesn’t make much sense, I think. So it’s probably a storm. Somehow you have to weather.

And I think there are examples you mentioned already on how you would do that. But I think you would you would likely be wise to assume or to say that we need to look at the worst case scenario here, not the best case scenario. What’s the worst case that could happen that it turns into a complete trashing of your company and all your brands, for instance. And there’s fake evidence being produced all over that. Yes, it does kill people if they take your product, this kind of thing.

So it’s not an enviable place, but that is the landscape, isn’t it? With regard to almost anyone with a brand and a good news story or making a product that’s beneficial to people, there are people coming out of the woodwork who have all sorts of things to say to trash what you’re doing and the fact that your product is not safe at all. It’s a hell of an environment show, that’s a fact.

Shel Holtz (12:42)
It is, but it’s the environment we’re living in. So being prepared, I think, is critical these days. I didn’t check, and I probably should have. When Tylenol was owned by Johnson & Johnson, they had a credo. It was four stakeholder audiences in the order that the company prioritized them, and patients were first. And you may remember, of course, this is not the first crisis that Tylenol has faced.

@nevillehobson (12:45)
you

Shel Holtz (13:08)
Back in the 80s, there was the product tampering in the Chicago area that led to several deaths. And even though we tend to look at this now a little more idealized than the response actually was, it’s still a case study that is taught in business schools everywhere that they eventually pulled the product nationally, even though there was no evidence that.

there were any tampered products outside of the Chicago area. And their public statements were that we’re doing this because our credo says that we put patients first and we’re not willing to put anybody at risk. The shareholder, by the way, was last on the credo list. think was employees were second, the communities in which they operate were third and shareholders were last.

And their philosophy said, if we take care of the first three shareholders will be just fine. And in fact, when they reintroduced Tylenol, it was with a safety cap that they innovated. And that led a lot of customers of other pain relievers to switch to Tylenol because their product didn’t have a safety cap. By the time the competition caught up and developed their own safety caps, these were all now Tylenol customers. So the shareholders ended up just fine.

@nevillehobson (14:12)
Hmm.

Shel Holtz (14:21)
And I like that approach. But the point is that what they ended up appealing to, even though they might not have characterized it this way, was the emotions of the public. It’s, they care about us. And I think as long as you can maintain that emotional connection that we care about you, not just putting out scientific data. And I think this is where a lot of that third party comes in.

These people want women to suffer with fevers and pain during pregnancy when there is no evidence that taking Tylenol will hurt. I’m waiting for that first report of somebody who would not take Tylenol, developed a fever and died or miscarried or what have you emerges. You know the media is gonna be all over that when it happens. So again, there’s so many dimensions involved in preparing yourself. The nice thing about

@nevillehobson (14:47)
Yeah.

Shel Holtz (15:10)
This story that I don’t think Kenview had to worry about was a lot of the third party reporting. You saw the doctors that the cable networks typically go to when there’s a medical related story and they were so contemptuous of this report that anybody who’s watching and of course the wrong people weren’t watching, but you didn’t need to hear from Kenview in order to understand that

This is bunk. I mean, it was third parties who made the point that autism existed before Tylenol did. So if Tylenol is responsible for this, where did all these previous cases come from? And for those who suggest that, well, there has been an increase in the number of autism cases, that’s not true. There’s been an increase in the number of diagnoses because autism is not that old a diagnosis and as more and more doctors.

recognize it, they are making that diagnosis. So leaving that information for third parties to convey while you stay in your lane, as Darden put it, I think is a good idea if you’re the type of organization that has those third parties available or already on the hook to go out and speak on your behalf.

@nevillehobson (16:20)
Yeah, I think one other thought that one of the links you shared is an Adweek report that Yahoo News reported that the headline says it all really, titles just the latest brand Trump has picked to fight with. And there are a handful of things that will be in recent memory for every listener to this podcast. We’ve talked about some of these on previous episodes. John Deere, the agricultural equipment manufacturer.

that Trump threatened them with 200 % tariffs on everything that they want to sell in the US if they move manufacturing from Iowa to Mexico because of the tariffs. They went ahead and did it anyway. I’ve not seen what the consequences were for them, but they went ahead and did it anyway. Macy’s, the department store, Mexican immigrants are bringing drugs and bringing crime and were rapists in America. That’s what Trump was saying about that.

So that’s a deal with that. Apple, well, they’re talking about manufacturing in China with the phones. Thailand, we’re discussing now. Boeing, talks about them. Jaguar cars, he has strong opinions about their new logo and rebranding. That’s extraordinary for a politician, nevermind someone who’s the president of a country with those kind of opinions. But he’s different kind of person. And I guess the latest probably, this American brand,

Cracker Barrel, we have a similar brand here in the UK, but it’s not to be confused with this one, that he talked about that he described it as woke, the rebrand that when they went through this rebranding, they should go back to the old logo, he said on more than one occasion. And people are trying to figure out why why why he bothered him so much. Anyway, it did. And he said they should admit a mistake and go back to the old one and the restaurant chain.

did in fact go back to the old logo. So that’s the nature of things. So hence, you’re a big brand, you’ve got high visibility, you need to factor this into your crisis plan.

Shel Holtz (18:13)
Yeah, it must frustrate a lot of brand managers to hear advice to stay in your lane when the person attacking you is in every lane all at once. We’ll absolutely not stay in his lane. So yeah, and that’ll be a 30 for this episode of Four Immediate Release.

@nevillehobson (18:25)
Extraordinary.

The post FIR #483: How Tylenol Handled a High-Profile Falsehood appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the impact of AI on small agencies, focusing on the high expectations and possible disappointments it poses. They reference a recent article from The Atlantic, which highlights a study showing that AI can sometimes decrease efficiency.

They caution against overhauling business models based solely on AI’s current capabilities, stressing that while AI can assist with tasks and improve efficiency, it cannot fully replace human judgment and creativity.

The conversation extends to the challenges of integrating AI without sacrificing the development of new talent and ensuring that the evolving role of AI adds value rather than causing disruption. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 284: Avoiding your agency’s own AI bubble appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Communication professionals today face an environment characterized by rapid change, emerging technologies, and evolving workforce expectations. In Circle of Fellows episode 121, “Evolving Roles and Strategic Goals,” a panel of Fellows from the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) will explore how communicators can adapt to emerging challenges while staying aligned with their organization’s objectives. From navigating the impact of AI to addressing ongoing change and strengthening internal communication, this discussion will offer insights on keeping your strategies relevant in a digital-first world.

The Fellows will also tackle significant issues facing the profession, including leading change within organizations, supporting business adaptation in an unpredictable global landscape, keeping pace with a transforming workforce, and the importance of certification in advancing careers and enhancing credibility. Whether you’re refining your strategic communication goals or looking for practical ways to enhance your impact, this conversation delivers guidance you can put to work immediately.

The session is scheduled for noon ET on Thursday, October 23. You will be able to participate in the conversation using YouTube’s live comment feature. If you aren’t able to join us for the real-time session, you will be able to watch the video replay or listen to the podcast shortly after the panel concludes.

The panel features Fellows Laurie Dawkins, Mike Klein, Robin McCasland, and Martha Muzychka, with Shel Holtz moderating.

About the Panel

Laurie Dawkins, ABC, MC, SCMP, Fellow, is vice president of Communications & Engagement with the Provincial Health Services Authority (PHSA), one of the largest public sector health-care organizations in western Canada. She leads a team of close to 50 communication professionals in delivering timely, strategic and meaningful internal and external communications, media relations, crisis communications and C-suite counsel to meet the needs of more than 29,000 employees and 5.5 million citizens who turn to PHSA for specialized health-care services provided by BC Children’s Hospital, BC Cancer, BC Emergency Health Services, the BC Centre for Disease Control, and more. Laurie has more than 25 years’ experience in the communications industry, and holds the professional designations of Accredited Business Communicator (ABC) and Strategic Communications Management Professional (SCMP). In 2017, she was delighted to be named a Master Communicator of Canada (MC) by the IABC-Canada. She has hands-on experience in partnering with First Nations and Indigenous leaders to co-create communication strategies that are foundational to PHSA’s organizational vision to “Boldly create an equitable, anti-racist and culturally safe health care system where everyone thrives.”

Mike Klein is the Editor-in-Chief of Strategic Magazine, Founder of #WeLeadComms, and a communication consultant specializing in internal and social communication based in Reykjavik, Iceland. A former US political consultant, Mike shifted direction toward internal communication while pursuing his MBA at London Business School. Since then, Mike has been one of the leading voices for empowering communication professionals, and advocating a focus on internal influence and social connection as drivers of communication, integration and performance. His 2011 book, From Lincoln to LinkedIn remains relevant as organizations recognize that personal credibility and connection are critical to communication success in a world where content volumes are increasing and instability flourishes. Raised in Chicago, Mike has lived and worked in seven different countries, and is also a Fellow of the Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence and the Institute of Internal Communication.

Robin McCasland, IABC Fellow, SCMP, is Senior Director of Corporate Communications for Health Care Service Corporation (HCSC). She leads the company’s communications team and the employee listening program, demonstrating to senior leaders how employee and executive communication add value to the business’s bottom line. Previously, Robin excelled in leadership roles in communication for Texas Instruments, Dell, Tenet Healthcare, and Burlington Northern Santa Fe. She has also worked for large and boutique HR consulting firms, leading major communication initiatives for various well-known companies. Robin is a past IABC chairman and has served in numerous association leadership roles for over 30 years. She was honored in 2023 and 2021 by Ragan/PR Daily as one of the Top Women Leaders in Communication. She’s also received IABC Southern Region and IABC Dallas Communicator of the Year honors. Robin is a graduate of The University of Texas at Austin and a Leadership Texas alumnus. Her own podcast, Torpid Liver (and Other Symptoms of Poor Communication), features guest speakers addressing timely topics to help communication professionals become more influential, strategic advisors and leaders. She resides in Dallas, Texas, with her husband, Mitch, and their canine kids, Tank and Petunia.

Martha Muzychka, ABC, MC, speaks, writes, listens, and helps others do the same to make change happen. Martha is a strategic, creative problem solver seeking challenging communications environments where we can make a difference. She helps her clients navigate competing priorities and embrace communication challenges. Martha offers strategic planning, facilitation, consultation services, writing and editing, qualitative research, and policy analysis. Her work has been recognized locally, nationally, and internationally with multiple awards.

The post The Future of Communication: Adapting, Leading, and Aligning appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss how to handle situations when the problems affecting an agency’s client relationship stem from external contacts like procurement, IT, or the sales team.

They emphasize treating client contacts as allies and not enemies, and provide strategies to navigate bureaucratic hurdles and internal politics. The discussion covers creative problem-solving techniques such as using MSAs, having biweekly calls with VPs of Sales, and understanding cultural differences. The importance of having a collaborative approach and pre-building relationships to effectively manage challenges is also highlighted. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 283: What to do when your client contact isn’t the problem appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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We’ve all heard of AI slop by now. “Workslop” is the latest play on that term, referring to low-quality, AI-generated content in the workplace that looks professional but lacks real substance. This empty, AI-produced material often creates more work for colleagues, wasting time and hindering productivity. In the longform FIR episode for September, Neville and Shel explore the sources of workslop, how big a problem it really is, and what can be done to overcome it.

Also in this episode:

• Chris Heuer, one of the founders of the Social Media Club, is at work on a manifesto for the “H Corporation,” organizations that are human-centered. A recent online discussion set the stage for Chris’s work, which he has summarized in a post.
• Three seemingly disparate studies point to the evolution of the internal communication role.
• Researchers at Amazon have proposed a framework that can make it as easy as typing a prompt to identify a very specific audience for targeted communication.
• Communicators everywhere continue to predict the demise of the humble press release, but one public relations leader has had a very different experience.
• Anthropic and OpenAI have both released reports on how people are using their tools. They are not the same.
• In his Tech Report, Dan York looks back on TypePad, the blogging platform whose shutdown is imminent; AI-generated summaries of websites from Firefox; and Mastodon’s spin on quote posts.

Links from this episode:

• Neville’s remarks on the human-centered organization, along with Chris Heuer’s original LinkedIn post
• Building a Shared Vision: Organizations Advancing Human-Centered AI
• Defining the Human Centered Organization
• The Birth of the H-Corp
• The Effects of Enterprise Social Media on Communication Networks
• AI misinformation and the value of trusted news
• Corporate Affairs is Ripe for AI Disruption
• AI-Generated “Workslop” Is Destroying Productivity
• AI ‘Workslop’ Is Killing Productivity and Making Workers Miserable
• AI “workslop” sabotages productivity, study finds
• AI isn’t replacing your job, but ‘workslop’ may be taking it over
• workslop: bad study but excellent word
• An Explainable Natural Language Framework for Identifying and Notifying Target Audiences In Enterprise Communication
• How smart brands are delivering Netflix-level personalization with AI
• We Tested a Press Release in ChatGPT. The Results Changed Everything.
• LinkedIn post from Sarah Evans on press release performance in AI search results
• Sarah Evans’ 10 PR myths
• Ethan Mollick’s LinkedIn post about how people are using AI for work
• Here’s How People Use AI, Per OpenAI, Anthropic And Ipsos Data
• OpenAI and Anthropic studied how people use ChatGPT and Claude. One big difference emerged.
• Anthropic Finds Businesses Are Mainly Using AI to Automate Work
• How people actually use ChatGPT vs Claude – and what the differences tell us

Links from Dan York’s Tech Report

• Typepad is Shutting Down
• Vimeo to be acquired by Bending Spoons in $1.38B all-cash deal
• On Firefox for iOS, summarize a page with a shake or a tap
• Introducing quote posts
• Quoting other posts – Mastodon documentation

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, October 27.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw Transcript

Shel Holtz:
Hi everybody, and welcome to episode number 482 of For Immediate Release. This is our long-form episode for September 2025. I’m Shel Holtz in Concord, California.

Neville Hobson:
And hi everyone, I’m Neville Hobson in the UK.

Shel Holtz:
As I mentioned, this is our long-form episode. That means we’ll be reporting on six topics of interest to communicators. Interestingly, I think all of them are connected either directly or indirectly to artificial intelligence. I also have Dan York here with an interesting report. You and I both have a few things to say about one of the topics that Dan is reporting on.

As always with our monthly episode, we have some housekeeping before we jump into the topics. Neville, you’re going to catch us up on the items we reported on since the last episode. And we have some comments on some of these reports. That’s an opportunity to remind everybody that we love your comments—please participate in this podcast by sharing them. It doesn’t have to be about something we reported on; you can introduce a topic. This used to happen all the time in the early days of the show—someone would say, “Why don’t you guys talk about this?” and we would, and it became the content of the show. So please leave a comment on the show notes or on LinkedIn—which is where most of our comments come from these days. People leave a thought or some feedback on our announcement of the new episode. You can also do that on Facebook in multiple places. And you can always go to the website and record a comment—there’s a button that says “Leave voicemail” and you can record a 90-second comment. Or send us an MP3 file to fircomments@gmail.com. Lots of ways to participate in the show, and we really hope you will. We’ll share some of the comments we received in the last month, Neville, as you remind us what we talked about.

Neville Hobson:
Indeed. September was kind of an odd month because you were on holiday for two weeks and we didn’t do any live recording during that time, but we had a couple of short recordings tucked in our back pocket to publish in the interim. Let’s share what we did since the last monthly episode for August—that was on the 25th of August, episode 478. Our lead story explored when corporate silence backfires and how communicators can help leaders make better choices. We also discussed AI PR deepfakes and more, including Dan York’s report. That was a 90-minute show like this one is likely to be.

Episode 479 on the 1st of September—“Hacking AI Optimization vs. Doing the Hard Work.” Amid the rise of GEO, we discussed how brands are seeking workarounds to appear in AI-generated answers, but shortcuts don’t build trust. Old-school PR and marketing still matter. We got a comment on that one, right, Shel?

Shel Holtz:
We did, from Frank Diaz, who’s become one of our loyal listeners. He said, “This was my conclusion as well. Once I filtered everything…” He shared a checklist on mastering AI citation strategy for SEO on LinkedIn. We’ll include a link in the show notes for context.

Neville Hobson:
On the 9th of September we published episode 480, “Reflections on AI Ethics and the Role of Communicators.” You had already gone on holiday. This was a conversation between Sylvia Cambie—who was a guest co-host back in July when we interviewed Monsignor Paul Tighe from the Vatican about artificial intelligence—and me. We picked up where that interview left off with reflections on AI dignity, what really matters, and what caught our attention. Interestingly, that episode got more listens and downloads than the interview itself—perhaps because people were catching up after summer.

Episode 481 on the 24th of September—so you can see a nearly two-week gap there—“The M-Panic: AI Writing and Misguided Assumptions. Can Tone and Authenticity Survive AI Polish?” We dove into the “M-kerfuffle” that’s had communicators divided much of this year. You also explained how you turned 28 blog posts into a forthcoming book with AI’s help—classic AI-assisted writing in action. We had comments too, didn’t we?

Shel Holtz:
We did. Daniel Pauling wrote that the dash doesn’t solely come from training data—a point I’d made, saying the reason you see so many dashes is because the training sets include a lot of dash-heavy content. Daniel said it also comes from how generative AI is programmed to be more friendly and what it associates with friendliness. He referenced a post where he went into detail—we’ll include that link. John Cass had a thoughtful comment about how writing wasn’t rigid in the 17th century—Shakespeare even spelled his name multiple ways—arguing that language is a visual representation of speech and we should speak the language of our audience, not the textbook. He suggested anxiety around AI and writing often comes from our best writers, but human creativity is collective. I noted that Chris Penn recently wrote that AI won’t hurt creativity because creative people will keep creating. We saw that on a cruise art auction: people bidding thousands on works by young artists. The creative impulse persists. John replied that’s true, though some high-level creatives feel AI disrupts their thinking—maybe true for a few people; not everyone thinks the same way.

Neville Hobson:
Good essay-comment from John. And between all of that we recorded a new interview just before you went away—Stephanie Grober in New York, quite an authority on GEO—Generative Engine Optimization. The anchor for the conversation was: is GEO the next SEO, a passing fad, or good comms practice in disguise? We talked about what GEO means for communicators today and what to do about it. That was published on the 16th of September. So we had five podcast episodes since August—not bad, considering you were away half the month.

Shel Holtz:
Not bad at all. We are a content machine. And that machine continues with Circle of Fellows—the monthly panel among IABC Fellows. I was at sea for this one; Brad Whitworth moderated a discussion about what it means for communicators that hybrid appears to be winning as the preferred workplace configuration. Priya Bates, Ritzi Ronquillo, and Angela Sinickas participated. It’s up on the FIR Podcast Network.

The October episode sounds great: number 121. I’ll moderate at noon Eastern on Thursday, October 23. The topic: evolving roles and strategic goals. The description from Anna Willey: communicators are adapting alongside new tools and channels; strategic goals must align with organizational objectives as they impact brand reputation, enhance internal communications, and address ongoing change. Panelists so far: Lori Dawkins, Amanda Hamilton-Atwell, and Mike Klein, with a fourth to be named. You can join live and participate or catch the podcast. That wraps up our housekeeping—we managed to do it in less than 13 minutes. Right after this, we’ll be back with our Topics of the Month.

Neville Hobson:
Our first topic for September: Throughout this year we’ve returned again and again to one central theme—AI must be about people, not just machines. Whether we were talking about the future of work, managers’ roles in an AI-enabled world, or the Vatican’s perspective on AI ethics (“the wisdom of the heart” in our July interview with Monsignor Paul Tighe), the question has been the same: How do we ensure technology serves humanity rather than the other way around?

That’s the context for Chris Heuer’s latest work. Chris is an internet pioneer and serial entrepreneur—many of you will know him from the Social Media Club nonprofit he founded in the early days of social media, which reached 350 cities globally. Building on an online brainstorm Chris led on September 17—more than 50 people connected worldwide to discuss defining human-centered organizations, which I joined and wrote about on LinkedIn—Chris has published a follow-up titled “The Birth of the H-Corp” (H for humanity). It’s a bold attempt to define what organizations owe humanity in the age of AI.

The central concern: efficiency has become the dominant corporate narrative. He cites Shopify’s CEO saying managers must prove why AI can’t do the job before hiring another human. We referenced that in an FIR episode this summer. That kind of AI-first thinking risks eroding human dignity. Chris argues for an alternative: organizations must enable humans rather than replace them, reinvest AI gains back into people, and make empathy and ethics structural rather than optional.

What’s powerful is the recognition of tensions—for example, how AI can hollow out junior roles and undermine leadership pipelines. Participants flagged cultural sovereignty—the idea that AI shouldn’t just reflect Silicon Valley’s worldview but the diversity of human society. Chris’s goal is to draft an H-Corp manifesto later this year—likely November—likening this to the naming moment of social media: a concept that crystallizes shared ambitions and sparks a broader movement. It won’t be perfect, but it could serve as a north star for organizations that want to put human flourishing at the center of AI adoption.

For communicators, this is an important conversation: How do we frame the internal narrative so AI isn’t just about productivity and cost-cutting, but about augmenting human potential? How do we give shape to something like H-Corp so it doesn’t remain an ideal but becomes practical reality? It’s not about resisting AI or slowing progress; it’s about making deliberate choices so organizations put people at the center of change. Will communicators, leaders, and organizations seize the opportunity to shape AI for human flourishing—or let the technology shape us by default? Could H-Corp become a rallying concept as ESG or CSR did—or will it get diluted into corporate sloganeering? What role should communicators play to keep it real and practical? I bet you’ve got ideas.

Shel Holtz:
Of course—otherwise why would we be here? First, I think AI is less responsible for this situation than the general nature of business, especially in a capitalist society. I’m not going to get philosophical about capitalism—I’m a proud capitalist. I like making money and would like to make more. If the goal of an organization—especially a public corporation with fiduciary responsibilities—is to earn a return for investors, then when AI comes along it makes complete sense that leaders ask, “How does this help us maximize returns?” Reducing costs and staff and having a machine work 24/7—of course that’s where leaders go first. It doesn’t mean that’s what organizations should do, but I get why they do it.

Also, with any new technology, the first thing we do is what we were already doing—but better. The earliest uses no one had thought of come later. I don’t think generative AI has been around long enough for that next phase yet. We’re still using it to do what we’ve been doing; later we’ll discover new, more human-centered applications. For some organizations that will come; for others, it won’t—they’ll stay focused on maximizing profit.

Another issue: most organizations aren’t tackling AI strategically in its early days. There’s ample data showing people aren’t looking at this holistically. I was just talking at my company about the entry-level construction job—project engineer. Much of that role may be automated. Submittals, for example, take time and expertise; AI could produce them in minutes with the right inputs. Does that mean fewer project engineers? Our conversation was: how do we redefine the role so they still learn what they need to move up—project manager, project director, superintendent, whatever? The job won’t be the same, but it remains foundational. Same in communications: the entry-level comms role won’t be the same job in five years. Does the job go away—or do we rethink it? Smart organizations will rethink it—that’s a humanistic approach because we’re not dispensing with the role; we’re redefining it.

Neville Hobson:
It’s a big topic. I don’t disagree that some companies will shut their eyes to anything beyond “we use this to make money.” But the conversation—at the heart of what Chris is talking about—is helping organizations see the people. Language matters, too—how we talk about “replacing” versus “augmenting” can devalue human work.

Another argument from the brainstorm: human-centered talk often defaults to privileged voices and excludes marginalized groups. There’s a perception that there’s one version of AI—English, global north. What about the global south? Some countries have launched Spanish-language chatbots relevant to their populations; ChatGPT may not be the relevant tool for them. We should stimulate conversations in organizations: “Yes, but think about this as well.” That can create discord, but it’s necessary.

This idea is worth promoting: don’t devalue people. Put them first. Yes, aim for profit—but how do we help our people help us make that profit? People suffer in change; they’re often last in line when tech is deployed. Let’s bring empathy back into organizations. The landscape is changing at light speed—new capabilities, “pulse” updates to mobiles, etc. I think Chris Heuer’s offering could become a rallying concept. With influential voices like the Vatican and others globally, maybe it gathers steam.

Shel Holtz:
It could. My skepticism is about incentives. Leaders are obliged to produce maximum returns. How do we connect the dots so they see something in this change aligned with their goals? That’s what I want to see in the manifesto—most manifestos dwell on what’s wrong and not how to fix it.

Neville Hobson:
Right—so the H-Corp manifesto expected in November becomes the template to address those questions: how do we include X, Y, Z? I sensed a groundswell of willingness on the Sept. 17 call. It’s a small group; getting the word out may persuade others to get involved. You’ve got to start somewhere. This could be a rallying concept.

Shel Holtz:
I’ll predict that in November this will be a theme for one of our FIR episodes.

Neville Hobson:
Maybe we interview someone—perhaps Chris.

Shel Holtz:
Could be Chris.

Neville Hobson:
If this strikes a chord, go to the Humanizing AI Substack (link in show notes), read Chris’s post introducing the H-Corp manifesto, and see if you want to get involved. It’s open—share ideas and see what happens.

Shel Holtz:
One thread running through much of our coverage is how digital tech is reshaping organizational communication, minute by minute. Three new reports over the last couple of weeks are fascinating on their own; together they create a big picture communicators must grapple with.

First: a major new study of enterprise social media (internal platforms like Slack, Teams, Viva Engage). Researchers studied 99 organizations adopting Microsoft Viva Engage (which grew out of Yammer). Enterprise social media made communication networks denser, more connected, and more democratic. Employees didn’t just talk to the same people—they formed new ties, especially weak ties across teams that spark ideas. Leaders and employees connected more directly, and influence was more distributed. Viva Engage, unlike siloed Teams channels, enables more open conversations around broader themes. This change breaks down silos and fosters innovation—critical when hybrid/remote work can leave people isolated.

Second: Boston Consulting Group estimates more than 80% of corporate affairs work, including communication, could be augmented or even automated by AI. The biggest gains come when organizations redesign processes around AI—not just bolt it on. For communicators: think proactively not just about writing faster, but re-imagining workflows with AI in the mix.

Third: VoxEU points to a serious risk: as AI makes it easier and cheaper to produce plausible misinformation, the value of trusted, credible information goes up—externally and internally. If employees can’t tell what’s credible—about competitors, market conditions, or even their own company—their decision-making is compromised. If misinformation creeps into internal channels, it can spread quickly through the very networks making us more connected.

Put together: enterprise social media can make networks open and innovative, but they’re vulnerable if we don’t ensure accuracy and trust. Hovering over that is BCG’s reminder that AI will disrupt a huge portion of what communicators do. The challenge: if we don’t take responsibility for credibility and quality, AI will amplify misinformation and mistrust. The opportunity: use AI thoughtfully to improve connection and personalization while leaning into our role as stewards of trusted information. Connection without credibility is fragile; credibility without connection is limited. Our job is to deliver both.

Neville Hobson:
Big challenge. The VoxEU report on AI misinformation and trusted news stood out. One interesting finding: once misinformation was identified, people didn’t disengage—they consumed more. Treated individuals were more likely to maintain subscriptions months later. The report’s conclusion: when the threat of misinformation becomes salient, the value of credible news increases. How do you put that in place inside an organization?

Shel Holtz:
I remember my first corporate comms job at ARCO. Our weekly employee paper had bylines so employees knew who to call with story ideas. Bylines also establish credible sources—names employees learn to trust. As networks flood with information, people will gravitate to known credible voices. The same is true externally with content marketing: put a person behind the content so audiences recognize trustworthy outputs. We’ll need to build credibility with our reporters, thought leaders, and SMEs—internally and externally—so they become beacons of trust amid misinformation.

Neville Hobson:
VoxEU (focused on media) says if outlets maintain trust, the rise of synthetic content becomes an opportunity: as trust grows scarcer, its value rises, and audiences may be more willing to pay. Translate internally: employees won’t “pay,” but they will give attention to reliable, trustworthy writing—especially when the author is identified and credible. That seems like common sense.

Shel Holtz:
Agreed. Some employees don’t care what’s going on; they just do their job and go home. But if they’re overwhelmed with plausible-sounding contradictions, internal communications can become the trusted voice. People who didn’t pay attention before may start following channels and authors they’ve come to trust—if we consistently produce credible content.

Neville Hobson:
One line from VoxEU’s conclusion fits perfectly: the threshold to trustworthiness rises with the volume and sophistication of misinformation, meaning media outlets can’t stand still; they must continually invest in helping readers distinguish fact from fabrication, keeping pace with AI. Fits internally, too.

Shel Holtz:
Combine that with the other two reports: use enterprise social networks as channels for credible information and conversation, and use the BCG disruption to redefine our work so our time remains valuable even as 80% of tasks change.

Neville Hobson:
Okay, another buzzword: “work slop”—content that looks polished but is shallow or misleading, created with AI and dumped on colleagues to sort out. Harvard Business Review argued work slop is a major reason companies aren’t seeing ROI from AI; 40% of employees are dealing with it. But there’s a critique in Pivot to AI saying the data came from an unfiltered BetterUp survey—calling HBR’s article an unlabeled advertorial that shifts blame onto workers while pitching enterprise tools.

So two threads: “work slop” is a brilliant label for a real problem; but some coverage may itself be work slop. Questions: Is work slop a real productivity killer or just a catchy buzzword? What responsibility lies with leadership vs. employees? And how should we treat research that blurs into marketing?

Shel Holtz:
I think it’s real, though I don’t know that it’s as dire as painted. The first time I saw “work slop” was from Ethan Mollick on LinkedIn. He echoed Pivot to AI’s point: the term can shift blame onto employees told to “be more productive with AI” without leaders doing the hard work of rethinking processes or defining good use. Poor output becomes “AI’s fault”—that’s not leadership. For communicators, we should advocate responsible AI use from the top down, not just coach employees to cope.

Also, this is new-tech déjà vu. Remember desktop publishing? Suddenly every department cranked out a newsletter—because they could. It created information overload until companies set guidelines. Today, many orgs haven’t offered training, guidance, or frameworks for AI. People are experimenting—good!—but without prompt skills or evaluation skills, they’ll create work slop. We’ll see a lot of it until organizations get strategic about AI and define expectations and verification. We even did an episode on “verification” becoming a role—someone checking outputs for accuracy and credibility. We’ll see if that shakes out, but that’s where work slop comes from. I don’t think it’s a long-term problem; it will resolve like the 86 departmental newsletters did.

Neville Hobson:
How do we address the eruption of AI-generated content? Even if it isn’t outright wrong, it’s too much to read—hurting productivity.

Shel Holtz:
Organizations need a strategic approach. Our CEO often says there will be a day the switch flips; if you’re not ready, you’re irrelevant. The orgs allowing prodigious work slop haven’t reached—or acted on—that conclusion. They need governance, training, and clear “assist vs. automate” boundaries.

Neville Hobson:
Thanks very much, Dan—terrific report. TypePad caught my attention. I was on TypePad from 2004, moved to WordPress in 2006, kept TypePad as an archive until 2021. Interesting—and urgent—to hear it’s ending. Migration is easy except images; that’s not trivial. I know three people still on TypePad with no idea the door’s about to shut. Good callout.

Shel Holtz:
I was never a TypePad user, but many early influential blogs were there—Heather Armstrong’s Dooce, PostSecret, Freakonomics before it became a podcast. We’ve been doing this long enough to cover birth, life, and death.

Neville Hobson:
We have. Dan also mentioned Mastodon introducing commenting—probably a big deal. I’m not hugely active there. What do you think?

Shel Holtz:
I still have a Mastodon instance—interested to dig in. I was more intrigued by the Vimeo item. They’ve struggled to define a niche in YouTube’s world—often pitching private, high-quality business video hosting. I still get pitched. But one constant headache in internal comms is getting the right message to the right people. If you’ve ever sent a company-wide update because you weren’t sure who needed it—or spent hours hunting down the right list—you know the pain.

That’s why a research paper from Amazon’s Reliability and Maintenance Engineering team caught my eye: “An explainable natural language framework for identifying and notifying target audiences in enterprise communication.” In plain terms: a system that lets you ask in natural language who should get your message, then the AI not only finds the audience but explains how it got there.

Example: “Reach all maintenance technicians working with VendorX’s conveyor belts at European sites.” The system parses that, queries a knowledge graph of equipment, people, and locations, and returns the audience—with reasoning (“here’s how we matched VendorX… here’s how we identified European facilities…”). Explainability is critical; in safety contexts you can’t trust a black box.

Implications: we struggle with over- and under-communication. We over-broadcast because we don’t trust lists; we miss people who need the info. A framework like this could make targeting as easy as writing a sentence—with transparency you can trust. It mirrors marketing’s move from “Hi, {FirstName}” to real context-aware personalization. Employees aren’t different from customers: they don’t want spam; they want relevant comms.

Challenges: privacy concerns about graphing people and work, the need to validate reasoning, and data quality (titles, records). But it’s a blueprint for rethinking audience targeting—imagine HR or IT change comms targeting precisely with explainability. It’s research, not a product yet, but communicators should watch this closely.

Neville Hobson:
Good explanation. I couldn’t find a simple one online—Amazon’s site doesn’t surface it well. Amusingly, an AI Overview explained it best, which is a good illustration of why traditional search is fading. My question: is this live at Amazon?

Shel Holtz:
I don’t think so—it’s a framework for consideration. Presumably they’d build it for Amazon first, then maybe market or license it. If you’ve worked in internal comms, you know targeting is hard; the info you need often isn’t accessible. This gives you the ability to do it—and verify it. I can’t wait to try it someday.

Neville Hobson:
Calendar marker set. Share that AI Overview with me—I’ll screenshot it.

Shel Holtz:
Copy and paste works, too.

Neville Hobson:
In recent episodes we’ve explored how the press release keeps reinventing itself. Far from dead, it moved from media distribution to SEO—and now, according to Sarah Evans (partner and head of PR at Zen Media), into a generative-AI visibility engine. In a long read, she describes testing a press release about Zen Media acquiring Optimum7, distributed via GlobeNewswire, then tracking how it was picked up not just by news outlets but by AI systems like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Meta AI. Within six hours, ChatGPT cited it 40 times; Meta’s external agents 17 times; Perplexity Bot and Applebot twice. Evans said there were 61 documented AI mentions in total in that period.

Implications: press releases aren’t just reaching journalists or Google—they’re feeding AI systems people use to ask questions and make decisions. The key metric becomes: is it retrievable when AI is asked a critical question in our space?

We’ve covered this angle a few times—from “Is PR dead (again)?” to the reinvention of releases for algorithms—and now this: the release as a tool for persistent retrievability and authority in the age of AI. If AI engines are the new gatekeepers, how should communicators rethink writing and measurement? What do you think, Shel?

Shel Holtz:
I’m glad you’re citing Sarah Evans—she’s terrific. We should invite her on the interview show. In another post—“10 PR myths I’m seeing”—she debunks “Press releases don’t matter.” She says they matter more than ever. We’re seeing early results with releases averaging about 285 citations in ChatGPT within 30 days. That suggests LLMs treat press releases as credible sources—especially when picked up in reputable places.

She also talks structured information. Gini Dietrich recently suggested having a page on your site not linked anywhere—meant for AI crawlers—with structured/markdown versions of the content so AI can better understand and apply it. Bottom line: press releases aren’t going anywhere. Every time someone proclaims them dead, they persist. (Side rant: embargoes aren’t real unless we agreed in advance.)

Neville Hobson:
I ranted about embargoes recently too. One question: what does retrievability mean for communicators? If AI engines, not journalists or search engines, arbitrate visibility, how do PR teams measure success differently? Are AI citations more valuable than traditional pickups?

Shel Holtz:
Both are valuable. Search has declined, but not to zero—not even to 50%. People still search. Some haven’t adopted AI for search; some queries are better served by ten links than an overview. (When we were in Rome, I searched for restaurants open before 7 p.m.—classic Google links job.) Sarah Evans’s myth list also says “Choose traditional or modern PR” is false—the strongest strategies use a dual pathway. As Mitch Joel says, “and,” not “instead of.”

Neville Hobson:
Worth reading Sarah’s Substack—and the link you’ll put in the notes—to make you think.

Shel Holtz:
Absolutely. I’ll probably be doing a press release in the next week or two—can’t say more, but it’s coming. One more debate: how people actually use AI. Ethan Mollick argues people lean on AI for higher-level cognitive tasks—framing, sense-making, brainstorming—rather than just automating grunt work. Recent usage studies from OpenAI and Anthropic offer fresh data.

OpenAI’s analysis of ChatGPT usage shows augmentation—writing, editing, summarizing, brainstorming, decision support. “Asking” (decision support) has become the largest slice—aligning with “thinking partner.” Anthropic paints a different enterprise picture for Claude: businesses use it chiefly to automate workflows, coding, math-heavy tasks, document processing, and reporting pipelines. Automation exceeds augmentation; some quantify ~three-quarters of enterprise use as automation patterns.

Zooming out, Forbes’s overview with OpenAI, Anthropic, and Ipsos notes adoption is broadening fast, trust is uneven, and behaviors vary by context. ZDNet frames it succinctly: ChatGPT is mostly used for writing and decision support (often non-work or para-work tasks), while Claude skews toward structured enterprise automation—coding and back-office flows.

So where does that leave Mollick’s claim? Both realities are true depending on the user and context. Among general knowledge workers, AI is a thinking companion; among engineering/operations teams and API-wired apps, AI acts as an automation substrate.

Implications for communicators:

1. AI is in the room at the idea stage—become editors, synthesizers, and standard-setters.
2. Automation is marching into comms-adjacent workflows—govern quality, provenance, and accountability.
3. Don’t pick a side; design for both—declare the “assist vs. automate” boundary, instrument the pipeline with checks and tags, build a “thinking partner” prompt bench, and mind the labor story by narrating changes transparently.

Neville Hobson:
Good advice. ZDNet’s split between personal and non-personal use was interesting. I’m a mixed user—lots of research that’s kind of work-related. I use ChatGPT mostly; not Claude lately. One note: I used ChatGPT for coding when I rebuilt my website on Ghost—editing theme templates with Handlebars. ChatGPT was astonishingly good—especially after GPT-5—at brainstorming workarounds and generating CSS/JS tweaks that worked perfectly on first publish. Claude also pinpointed issues following theme dev instructions. For a non-coder, that was huge confidence. These tools were brilliant alongside Docker and VS Code. I’m impressed.

Shel Holtz:
No question ChatGPT does very well with code; all frontier LLMs do. Claude currently tops some benchmarks (SWE-Bench, HumanEval, etc.) and is marketed heavily to developers, with strong APIs and tool integrations. OpenAI pushes ChatGPT more broadly—consumer and enterprise—so you see “what should I wear tonight?” and recipes alongside enterprise tasks. I’ve read that Gen Z uses AI to make basic day-to-day decisions—fascinating.

Neville Hobson:
The report says ChatGPT usage hit 700 million weekly users as of July. Growth is relatively faster in low- and middle-income countries. Early users were ~80% men; now about 48%, with more active users having typically feminine first names (their method). Useful metrics—but what does it mean to the average communicator? Hopefully they don’t walk away thinking “ChatGPT is only for coding.”

Shel Holtz:
Right—the point is not either/or. There are two valid use modes—collaborative and automated. Provide resources, tools, policies, guardrails, and governance so people can use both modes effectively. You can’t have a Wild West; you need standards you can support. But beware of swinging too far. I spoke to a company restricting staff to an internal AI that can’t do what NotebookLM does—hamstringing themselves. Organizations need to be pragmatic.

And that will wrap up episode 482, our long-form episode for September 2025.

Neville Hobson:
Market conditions will impact that approach, I bet. Okay.

Shel Holtz:
Right now we’re planning to record our long-form October episode on Saturday the 25th or Sunday the 26th—depends on Neville’s schedule. Either works for me. That episode will drop Monday, October 27. We’ll have short mid-week episodes in between, maybe even an interview—we’re lining up one or two. Until then, that will be a 30 for this episode of For Immediate Release.

The post FIR #482: What Will It Take to Stop the Slop? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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As hybrid work transitions from pandemic necessity to permanent business strategy, communication professionals face a dual challenge that’s reshaping the entire profession. Not only must they master the art of reaching and engaging a distributed workforce scattered across home offices, co-working spaces, and traditional workplaces, but they must also learn to function effectively as hybrid communication teams themselves.

In the September Circle of Fellows panel, four IABC Fellows and moderator Brad Whitworth, SCMP, IABC Fellow, will explore both sides of the hybrid communication equation. You’ll discover strategies for creating inclusive, impactful messaging that resonates equally with remote and in-office employees, avoiding the common pitfall of defaulting to those who are physically present. The panel will share proven approaches for maintaining a consistent brand voice and organizational culture when your audience is experiencing your company in fundamentally different ways.

Equally important, the discussion will delve into the operational realities of leading communication teams in a hybrid environment. Learn how to foster collaboration and creativity when your team members may never be in the same room, how to maintain the strategic thinking and relationship-building that drive communication excellence, and how to ensure that hybrid work enhances rather than hampers your team’s ability to serve the organization.

Whether you’re leading a fully distributed team, managing hybrid operations, or advising executives on how to communicate with their own hybrid workforces, this conversation will provide practical frameworks and real-world insights from communication professionals who are successfully navigating this new reality.

About the panel:

Priya Bates is a senior communication executive who provides strategic internal communication counsel in order to ensure leaders, managers, and employees understand the strategy, believe in the vision, act in accordance with the values, and contribute to business results. She is president of Inner Strength Communications in Toronto and previously served as senior director of Internal Communications at Loblaw Companies Limited.

Ritzi Villarico-Ronquillo, APR, IABC Fellow, is a Fellow of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), an Accredited in Public Relations professional, and a senior leader in Philippine organizations and in IABC. She held key roles as VP for Communication and Corporate Affairs in the manufacturing sector, and was PR Head for Communication and Publications, Advertising and Special Events, and General Public Programs in the energy sector. A multi-awarded communication professional, she has experience across corporate, community, associations, advocacy, and academia. With more than four decades of experience to date, she is a consultant, adjunct faculty, professional lecturer, training professional, speaker, and mentor on communication and public relations in prestigious educational institutions in the Philippines. She is a graduate of the country’s national university, the University of the Philippines’ College of Media and Communication, a center of excellence in the field. She is a contributing columnist of PR Matters, a weekly column of IPRA Philippines in the Business Mirror, a national broadsheet and online news platform.

Angela Sinickas is the founder of Sinickas Communications, which has worked with companies, organizations, and governments in 32 countries on six continents. Her clients include 25% of the Forbes Top 100 largest global companies. Before starting her own consulting firm, she held positions from editor to vice president in for-profit and government organizations and worked as a senior consultant and practice leader at Hewitt and Mercer. She is the author of a manual, How to Measure Your Communication Programs (now in its third edition), and chapters in several books. Her 150+ articles in professional journals can be found on her website, www.sinicom.com. Her work has been recognized with 21 international-level Gold Quill Awards from IABC, plus her firm was named IABC Boutique Agency of the Year in 2015. She holds a BS degree in Journalism from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and an MS in Leadership from Northeastern University.

The post Circle of Fellows #120: Hybrid is Winning. What Does That Mean for Communicators? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel dive into one of the hottest debates in communication today: what happens to tone and authenticity when artificial intelligence steps into the writing process? From the surprisingly heated arguments over the humble em-dash to fresh research on AI’s “stylometric fingerprints,” we explore whether polished AI-assisted prose risks losing the human voice that builds trust. Along the way, we look at how publishers like Business Insider are normalizing AI for first drafts, how communicators are redefining authenticity, and how Shel used AI to turn years of blog posts into a forthcoming book.

Links from this episode:

• Human-AI Collaboration or Academic Misconduct? Measuring AI Use in Student Writing Through Stylometric Evidence
• Distinguishing AI-Generated and Human-Written Text Through Psycholinguistic Analysis
• Some people think AI writing has a tell — the em dash. Writers disagree.
• AI is breaking my heart: Why authentic writing matters more than polished words
• The Em-Dash Responds to the AI Allegations
• Business Insider reportedly tells journalists they can use AI to draft stories

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, September 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw Transcript

Shel Holtz (00:01)
Hi everybody and welcome to episode number 481 of Four Immediate Release. I’m Shel Holtz.

@nevillehobson (00:08)
And I’m Neville Hobson. In this episode of For Immediate Release, we’re going to explore the question of tone and authenticity when artificial intelligence becomes part of the writing process. That seems to be a bit of a hot topic these days from what I see online. AI tools don’t just generate text. They also polish, rewrite, and shift tone to make communication sound warmer, more professional, or more concise. But what happens to authentic voice when AI smooths the edges?

Do we risk losing individuality, nuance and trust if everything starts to sound the same? We’ll talk about that right after this.

It’s a debate playing out among communicators. This year, the humble M-dash has become a flashpoint. Some insist that overusing M-dashes is a dead giveaway of AI altered text. Others push back saying that’s nonsense and unfairly stigmatizes a perfectly good mark of punctuation. Washington Post ran a feature in April with the headline, Some people think AI writing has a tell. The M-dash writers disagree. Then in August, Brian Phillips wrote a lyrical defense in the ringer.

pleading, stop AI shaming our precious kindly M-Dashes, please. And McSweeney’s even joined him as satire, publishing the M-Dash response to the AI allegations written from the dashes own point of view. That is really, really very amusing, worth a read. The fact that such debates exists highlights how sensitive people are to the signals of authenticity in writing. Fresh research in 2025 suggests this is more than speculation.

Some recent studies show that AI leaves stylometric fingerprints in writing that can be detected, raising questions about authorship and voice. A stylometric fingerprint is the unique combination of statistical linguistic features within a piece of text that identifies its author much like a human fingerprint. AI can make writing clearer and more polished but risks homogenizing style and raising ethical questions. Beyond academia, commentators argue that polished words without voice

risk-leaving communication hollow. And while researchers are busy analyzing stylometry and psycholinguistics, communicators are having a very different kind of debate about punctuation. So while academics study the fingerprints AI leaves on writing, the popular imagination has latched onto something much simpler, the punctuation choices we make. The M-debate may be tongue in cheek, but it speaks to a serious point.

How sensitive we’ve become to the signals of authenticity in text right down to a single line on the page. For communicators, the challenge is not whether to use AI, that ship has sailed, but how to preserve authenticity when tone shifting tools are in the mix. The call to action is to define what authenticity means in your context, decide which writing tasks AI should support, and ensure human voice and accountability remain front and center.

In the end, and authenticity aren’t about perfectly polished words. They’re about whether people believe there’s a human voice and accountability behind the message. Your thoughts, Shale?

Shel Holtz (03:19)
I have a lot of thoughts on this, ⁓ beginning with, well, at least it’s not the Oxford comma, because that’s a source of debate without artificial intelligence. The dash has found its way into AI outputs because of the AI inputs. The training sets include this massive corpus of writing that has been scraped from the web.

@nevillehobson (03:28)
Don’t start on that.

Shel Holtz (03:49)
that includes dashes. This is what it learned from. It saw a lot of ⁓ dashes used in writing, and that’s a pattern that it recognizes. It recognizes where they’re used and implements it in the outputs it creates. It did not think to itself, you know, I haven’t seen many dashes in my training set. That’s a shame. I’m going to start using more of those. That’s absurd.

When I was in college, I had a part-time job setting type. Yeah, I’m old enough that I actually set type. And I remember learning when to use the ⁓ dash based on the copy that I was transcribing into typeset. And there were a lot of them, even back then, when most people were still working on typewriters. So I think this notion that it’s a tell is ridiculous.

It’s, as you quoted somebody saying, a perfectly serviceable bit of punctuation. But let’s go beyond this notion of punctuation. mean, leave it to communicators where we have some really weighty issues to deal with that we’re going to spend most of our time talking about punctuation. I think this is one of the reasons leaders don’t take communicators very seriously. They’re thinking about business decisions and we’re thinking about

⁓ letting and kerning and things like that. We really need to get more focused on business outcomes and how communication and the use of AI contributes to that. This is what the Business Insider has done. Business Insider, I don’t know if you saw this, it’s a very recent announcement, have ⁓ officially given permission to their journalists to use AI to write the first drafts of their articles. They were already…

@nevillehobson (05:44)
Yeah.

Shel Holtz (05:47)
allowed to use AI for research, but not for any of the drafts they produced. Now they can produce the first draft. Now, why was that decision made? I’m not privy to what was going on in the mind of the president of Business Insider who made this decision and communicated it through internal memo to her staff. But I have to believe a couple of things are in play. First of all, journalism is in financial difficulties and you need

fewer people to crank out more stories. And if you can get it done faster by having AI generate a first draft, you then go in and fact check and clean up and apply your own writing to, I’ve done this, I’ve done first drafts in AI. And by the time I’m done rewriting, it’s a completely different piece. Still took me about an hour and a half less than it would have if I had had to sit there and write the first draft. I don’t do that for every kind of

article or other material that I need to produce, but on some things it just makes sense and it makes life easier. But the other reason I think Business Insider decided to go down this road is because AI is getting better at producing these kinds of drafts and it’s going to continue to get better. In the world of business, and I’m sure you’ve had this experience Neville, I know I have, is outside of the world of

communication when you are dealing with people in other parts of the business. And I don’t mean this in any sort of pejorative way. This is not an insult. These people are brilliant when it comes to the areas of specialization that are the focus of their jobs. But they can’t write their way out of a wet paper bag. They’re terrible, terrible writers. And if using AI can help them write a memo, write an email, write a report, write an article,

better than they could have on their own, I think we’re at a point where that’s fine. And as I say, it’s going to continue to improve. If AI can generate a good first draft now, how many months or years before it can generate the good final draft? I heard Casey Newton talking about this on Hartford saying, yeah, maybe ⁓ there’s not going to be work for us journalists anymore when the AI can write all the drafts.

don’t think that’s necessarily the case because the research still involves talking to people and that sort of thing. the writing with AI is getting to the point where I think this is a very transitive conversation that we’re having about authenticity and human writing. think AI is fully capable of doing this in a lot of circumstances and we need to stop our hand wringing about it and figure out how to do it well.

So that it produces the best results we can possibly deliver for our clients and our companies

@nevillehobson (08:50)
I agree. But we’re talking about human beings here who don’t exhibit some of that sometimes. I think the key thing to me is this kind of phrase I found last on my own mind, AI assisted writing. That’s actually pretty accurate phrase to describe in a sense what we’re talking about here. The issue of tone and authenticity is really the point that I’m keen to explore, where

voices more than grammar, for instance, AI can clean up text, sure, it can improve text. And you could argue that’s a subjective way, phrase, improve. Others might not see it as improvement. And therein, you get into rabbit holes, without question, which is where we’re at in a lot of this, I think. But AI can clean up text. But I think authenticity demonstrates itself through word choices, rhythm.

even the imperfections. I did something the other day that ChatGPT5 assisted me with, and I thought about this when I mentioned that. Did I assist it or did it assist? No, it assisted me because I asked it to do things. And I noted, kind of taken aback slightly, that on the first draft of what it did, it told me what it was going to do. And it said, I’m going to give this to you in your tone of voice.

And it did. And I read this, goodness, I could have written this myself. And that did take me back a bit. Maybe I’d not noticed that before. But that example also prompted a lot of my thinking into leading up to this discussion today. Because tone ⁓ and authenticity or rather tone, yeah, I mean, it is authenticity.

even though the debate is still there about what defines authenticity, I’ve had discussion that with lot of people is what do mean authentic? What does that actually mean? And it means different things to different people. I think this discussion or debate or whatever we might call describe it is likely to be one of those never ending ones, the dash, you mentioned the Oxford comma, that’s been around for decades, it’s still a major issue for some people. But being clear on this,

And for the reasons I think are quite clear, you mentioned, you know, the large language models, they scrape all this stuff off the off the internet, and it’s got m dashes in, it’s got all this stuff. No one really noticed that until recently. Most people don’t even think about that. I see writing and I even used to use this where I didn’t do m dashes, because that’s not in my background of writing. I do, for instance, on a keyboard.

using WordPerfect back in the day, I might do double hyphen that would convert that into an M dash. I never thought of that even, I didn’t even think about, hey, that’s an M dash, I didn’t even notice. So I don’t like M dashes, actually, the formal way people use them, or the historical way which I see AI doing the same, you got a word, there’s another word, and there’s an M dash in between, and then they’re touching the word. I don’t like it. I don’t like the look of it. So I don’t use M dashes, I use N dashes mostly.

when I do my writing. So this looks neater in my mind and I don’t care about it’s some ⁓ grammar geek is looking at that thing here that alters the meaning of what you’ve written. No, it doesn’t.

Shel Holtz (12:19)
Yeah, and

just to point out when I was doing typesetting, and I don’t remember what the rules were because I was 19 at the time, but there were definitely rules about the M dash is used in these conditions and the M dash in those conditions. I don’t remember what they were, but they existed.

@nevillehobson (12:22)
Sure.

I know,

of course there are rules, of course there are rules. So, but today in 2025, we’re looking at something that is, I guess, out of out of anyone’s control. Now, this this thing will evolve the language. I’m pretty certain of that, particularly. And typically we talk about the English language. The same thing applies in other languages, but English language as the world’s most spoken language.

meaning not native, it doesn’t matter, second language, third language doesn’t matter. It’s different everywhere. And so the rules are shifting. So, you know, I look at ⁓ the economist guides, the APs guide and all this, and indeed, I’ve got a copy of the AP guide from 15 years ago. don’t think anyone follows that now. It’s different. It’s different what you see now. So the ⁓ the web we’re at now is ⁓ beyond ⁓

can you say the the use of AI? I mean, it’s a given, as I mentioned in my intro, whether to use AI that ship has sailed long time ago. But we’re talking about preserving authenticity that exercises a lot of people in right, hence the criticism. I did read a piece by ⁓ I’ve forgotten who it was. It might have been Anne Handley, I think might have been the grammar girl actually talking about this recently. That’s right, right, exactly.

Shel Holtz (14:00)
That would be Minyung Fogarty.

@nevillehobson (14:04)
that ⁓ was pretty ⁓ bullish about the use of this in ways that we shouldn’t be wasting energy and time talking about this. Yet there are many people, because I see them talking about it online and social networks, who are convinced that an end dash anywhere they see an AI has written it. And I don’t think we’re to be able to get rid of that anytime soon. In which case, my advice is just do not worry about that. No one, know, right, ignore them.

Shel Holtz (14:28)
Yeah, ignore them. Ignore them.

I recently finished the first draft of a book. people who have been following writing. Oh, no, I’ve finished lots and lots of books reading, no, writing. This is a book on employee communication. And it is based on a series of 28 blog posts I wrote based on a framework I developed about 10 or 11 years ago.

@nevillehobson (14:39)
Do you mean reading it or writing it? Reading it or writing it? Writing it.

Right, okay.

Shel Holtz (14:58)
to aid me in the consulting work I was doing at the time. I wrote all these blog posts before AI was available to help you write. So they’re all in my voice, but they’re blog posts. They’re not book chapters. So I didn’t have the time between my full-time gig and FIR and a couple of volunteer activities that I have to sit and rewrite everything. I started, I tried, and it was just way too time consuming.

And I was listening to Chris Penn talk about how he did a book that Amazon could not challenge him that it was his, even though he leaned heavily on AI for the work. I didn’t do what he did because I already had a first draft with those blog posts, but I adapted his concept. So here’s what I did. I first created a very hefty document that contained a lot of what I have written.

⁓ I still had PDFs of a couple of the books I had written before. I had all of my blog posts, ⁓ many, many articles, this type of thing, even transcripts from some FIR episodes. And I put them in a PDF. And then I created a document ⁓ that said, these are approaches I take to writing. These are words and phrases that I use. I do a lot of parenthetical statements.

And here are things that AI tends to do in writing that I never do and don’t do any of this. And then I created a gem over on Gemini called Write Like Shell. And I loaded both of those documents into it. This was just for this book. And then chapter by chapter, and I started off by giving it the instruction that I’ve got 28 blog posts. I need to turn them into chapters of a business book.

I also need to update case studies because many of these are 11, 12, 13 years old and no longer relevant. And I need to come up with the kinds of elements that you see recurring in chapters of a business book. So I’m going to give you my blog post one at a time using these documents that I have shared, my corpus of my writing and my instructions on my writing and AI writing and how to apply that. Rewrite this post.

as a book chapter. And I was knocked out at how well it did. I still needed to spend an hour on editing and rewriting and making revisions. But I ended up doing that for 28 chapters. Is that an AI written book or is that a shell written book? I would argue that that’s my book. It based what it did on my writing. It did its new version based on how I write. And then I went back and made sure it was my writing.

@nevillehobson (17:48)
Right.

Shel Holtz (17:55)
So, you know, when we talk about using AI to write, the question is, what is your process? Are you saying write this and then you go publish it? I would never do that, but I think there are a lot of people who do.

@nevillehobson (18:03)
Right. No, no, ⁓

I agree with you. In fact, what you described is to my mind fits precisely the the label of AI assisted writing. That in my mind, what you’ve just explained is what’s the difference between what you did and between what you might have done if you’d hired a human being assistant to help you do this? What’s the difference? The AI is faster.

Is it accurate? Well, you only you will know that and you’re going to review it all anyway. And this to me is is is totally fine. And you’ve got no you would have no alarm about well, should I kind of write this chunky paragraph explaining that I’ve done it like this? No. Why? Why would you do that? Because similar tools have existed until now that were nowhere near as good as this. I mean, I think if some of the grammar assistance you

get from even in Microsoft Word back in the day, we’re Grammarly now that’s evolving that uses AI. And it’s, ⁓ you know, we got all these tools. Right, you’ve got all this there, which kind of neatly circles back to the main issue here, which is tone and authenticity, how do you still bring that along? And I think that is something where the the the user, the prompter, the communicator, whoever who is

Shel Holtz (19:01)
Yep. Hemingway is another one.

@nevillehobson (19:25)
engaging with the AI is his or her absolute responsibility to set the parameters for the AI in that context, to educate the AI on you. I’ve done that a lot. spent a lot of time on chat GPT. And that was one of my big bug bears, by the way, about chat GPT five, it seemed to have forgotten half of what I told chat GPT four about. So I’ve redone all that with chat GPT five. And I can see that in how it

ask me questions, how it prompts me and how responsible I ask it to do stuff like that. So that to me is is one way in which you can be confident yourself that the tone and authenticity of your AI assisted writing is okay. And that really is really what it comes out is not about creating a kind of a corporate manual for everyone has to follow. And I think it’s also to do with the comfort levels you have in your perception of that.

piece of writing or reading that someone has written that may have been assisted by AI may not more than often than not, it’s likely to have been assisted by AI. What is wrong with that? Well, a of people find something wrong with that nevertheless. So go back to right.

Shel Holtz (20:38)
Yep. And again, I think that’s that transitory issue that I think we face. I think in three or

four years, no one’s going to be talking about

@nevillehobson (20:45)
No, I’m sure you’re right, Shell. I mean, I think now we’re seeing things emerging in these academic papers. One of the examples I mentioned about stylometric fingerprints. think we’ve hopefully I think we’ve passed now through the phase of people saying, hey, I’ve got this software tool that could tell instantly if something’s written or not. No one cares about that unless you are being deceitful and seriously trying to game something. You ain’t going to succeed with that even. So things have changed. Things are evolving real fast. And people’s

if you like, expectations are evolving too, particularly the younger you are. And according to one of the papers I read, younger audiences are comfortable generally speaking with AI polish, but care deeply about whether a message feels authentic. And that’s what we need to be paying attention to. So help in defining authenticity is one job communicators could take on. We’ve got through the training, yes, we know, here’s how you do this with this LLM.

Here’s what you could do with that. Now let’s pay attention to the tone. Are you paying attention to that? So I think the kind of road is shifting in a slightly different direction than otherwise we might expect because of this. And the academic research seems to be backing this up as well. Things are changing fast, it seems to me, and you’ve got to be on the case.

Shel Holtz (22:03)
Yeah, and by the way, I have sent this first draft of my book to a group of thought leaders in the employee communication space. I asked them for their input. You know, what needs to be fixed? Is it terrible or should I proceed with this? And if you like it, please write a testimonial. ⁓ And so far, not one person has come back to me and said, I could tell you used AI in this. Not one.

So, you know, if you do this right, if you use it as a tool and do it right and come up with a workable process, I guarantee you all those people who say, can tell when it was written by AI, they can tell when it was written by AI by somebody who didn’t know what they were doing when they prompted the AI to write something. That’s what they can tell.

@nevillehobson (22:32)
Maybe we should ask them.

Yeah,

that’s the watchword, I think. And so, by the way, I see this year, I think there’s been at least six books published about internal communication. So everyone’s on a book bandwagon. I hope yours is gonna be slightly different, because they’re all saying the same thing about strategy, what’s important, how to use AI. Yours will be different, right?

Shel Holtz (23:13)
Mine does, I think it barely references AI. No, mine is about a framework for how to, if you read those other books and you go, okay, I understand the models and I understand how to develop a strategic plan, but I still don’t know how to apply this on a day-to-day basis. The framework is how you do that. One the very first things I say in the book is you’re not going to learn the models of internal communication in this book.

@nevillehobson (23:30)
Perfect.

Shel Holtz (23:42)
Go back and read something fundamental, then come back and read this to figure out what to do with all of those models that you’ve learned about. So yeah, it’s different.

@nevillehobson (23:51)
Cool. Excellent.

Shel Holtz (23:54)
So hope people like it. ⁓ If I actually, I don’t know how I’m gonna publish it yet. I don’t know if I’m gonna self publish this or look for a publisher. I’m waiting for the feedback from the thought leaders that I have sent it to who have agreed to read it. ⁓ But it wouldn’t be done. And this is the point. It wouldn’t be done if I didn’t have AI to help. It would still be sitting there as 28 blog posts. So, you know, criticize it all you like. ⁓ It works.

And that’ll be a 30 for this episode of Four Immediate Release.

The post FIR #481: The Em Dash Panic — AI, Writing, and Misguided Assumptions appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the common practice of providing free proposals and baseline ideas to clients. They argue that professional service providers should charge for these services as doing so adds value and ensures a thorough diagnosis before providing solutions.

They share personal experiences and compare the situation to doctors who would never prescribe treatment without proper tests. They emphasize the importance of understanding a client’s business through a paid discovery phase and making adjustments along the way to deliver effective results.

Additionally, they discuss the risks of providing overly detailed plans in early stages, the benefits of quarterly assessments, and the importance of maintaining clear communication and trust with clients. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 282: Stop providing solutions before understanding your client’s challenges appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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GEO – generative engine optimisation – is suddenly everywhere. Is it the new SEO, a passing fad, or simply good communication practice in disguise?

In this FIR Interview, Shel Holtz and Neville Hobson talk with Stephanie Grober, Marketing & PR Director at Horowitz Agency in New York, about why GEO matters, the competing narratives surrounding it, and how communicators should prepare for the impact of generative search.

What we discussed

• What GEO actually is – and how it differs from (or builds on) SEO
• The hype versus the reality: is GEO a genuine discipline or simply “snake oil”?
• The importance of authority, credibility, and tier 1 media coverage in shaping generative search results
• Why trade and niche publications are still crucial for visibility
• Practical steps for PR and comms professionals to get ahead, from media training to message consistency
• The evolving role of content marketing, press releases, and multimedia in a GEO-driven environment
• How law firms and professional services balance credibility with regulatory and compliance requirements
• Where GEO may be heading over the next 12 months

About our Conversation PartnerStephanie Grober is the Marketing & Public Relations Director at Horowitz Agency, an integrated marketing and public relations agency with offices in Los Angeles, New York City, and Vancouver (B.C.). Her team works with law firm clients ranging from BigLaw to boutiques, designing and executing content and communications strategies that generate bottom-line growth in measurable ways.

Leveraging deep relationships with the press, she delivers high-quality earned media placements for clients and utilizes her extensive marketing background to amplify these results through a multi-channel approach.

Stephanie joined Horowitz Agency in 2021 after serving as Marketing and Communications Manager for a Top 50 accounting firm in New York City.

• Follow Stephanie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniegrober/

Relevant Links

https://searchengineland.com/what-is-generative-engine-optimization-geo-444418
https://www.geekytech.co.uk/what-is-generative-engine-optimisation/
https://www.reddit.com/r/seogrowth/comments/1m6k4gx/is_anyone_actually_doing_generative_engine/
https://zapier.com/blog/generative-engine-optimization/
https://a16z.com/geo-over-seo/
https://www.searchenginejournal.com/stop-trying-to-make-geo-happen/554629/

Audio TranscriptShel Holtz (00:01.989)
Welcome everybody to a For Immediate Release interview. I’m Shel Holtz. I’m here with Neville Hobson and our guest today, Stephanie Grober, who is marketing and public relations director at Horowitz Agency. Stephanie, it is terrific to join you today.

Stephanie Grober (00:19.33)
Thank you guys very much for having me very excited to be here and chat a little bit about what we are calling GEO.

Shel Holtz (00:27.471)
We are, even though some people are disputing that particular moniker. But before we jump into this, Stephanie, I think our listeners would appreciate knowing something about your background.

Stephanie Grober (00:40.748)
Absolutely. So at Horowitz Agency, we specialize in working with law firms and select individuals. So very much rooted in legal marketing. I’ve been in professional services marketing for about six years now, and I’ve been a marketer for my entire career across several different industries. So I was fortunate to be able to continue honing my craft, focusing on communications and now communications, marketing, NPR for law firms and leading attorneys.

Shel Holtz (01:13.837)
And what got you into studying this field of AI and generative engine optimization?

Stephanie Grober (01:22.7)
Well, it’s a very exciting time for public relations professionals. When you are talking about AI and generative engine optimization, you’re going to hear the words authority and credibility, right? And authority and credibility are core principles of public relations. So that right there should signal, wow, this, this sounds like a PR play. And so as research has come out and we’re learning more about generative engine optimization and essentially the AI overviews that are populated when somebody puts a search term into a search engine, we’re finding that the AI is creating a brief summary using sources from the internet.

And what are those sources? Well, a lot of them are authoritative sources from top publications where you may have a PR professional working with you to get you quoted. So it all circles back to PR, makes it a very exciting time for PR professionals. Those who have already engaged the services of PR consultants or may have PR services happening in-house are a little bit ahead of the curve right now because they’re already going to be appearing in the authoritative sources that AI likes.

@nevillehobson (02:50.272)
Great. That’s a very good overview. We talked about this topic, actually, as you know, Stephanie, in the regular episode of this podcast, where we looked at this thinking about this interview, this conversation we’re going to have with you. And in fact, it made me think today, earlier today, my time in the UK, I was watching a video by Danny Sullivan, who as a name, you’ll know, he was a big deal, Search Engine Land magazine he was a founder of, he works at Google now. But he was giving a presentation at WordCamp in Portland just last week about SEO. And it was actually about SEO and GEO was how he pitched it. I was intrigued because he talked about essentially the same thing. And I thought, well, that’s not my understanding of it, unless I got it wrong. But that’s really what Shel and I talked about the other day.

Although to be fair, he did talk about what the, the most effective thing to do isn’t to argue about or worry about acronyms or initialisms or whatever. It’s about, building trust, creating clear, incredible content, putting it where you can, which already are. I thought, God, did he listen to our episode or maybe, but of course that was last week, not, the other day. but he did get me thinking about this. Is GEO an evolution of SEO? Is it? the same thing by another name. We talked about this and that’s not what we figured out what’s what’s your take on that?

Stephanie Grober (04:26.786)
Well, I loved what Shel said in the episode from earlier this week that there is no magic bullet, right? Necessarily. That is the approach I take to marketing. I, you know, working in very traditional industries, professional services, often B2B, highly regulated spaces. So understanding that, which informs our approach to marketing and may be different than a direct to consumer play, for example, you know, some brands have a much younger demographic audience, B2C needs while we are, you know, working with highly distinguished attorneys, professionals in a very traditional space. But I agree with Shel. There may not be a magic bullet here. And as for the distinction between SEO and GEO, I do see GEO as complimentary to SEO. You could say that it’s an evolution.

I wouldn’t say that they are exactly the same thing, but they are very parallel to each other. I think that if you have successfully been employing SEO strategies as a part of your overall marketing efforts, then you are probably ahead of the curve, as far as GEO. And that would be because you’ve been consistently adding optimized content to your website. You know, which keywords you want to appear in search.

You may have been structuring your content in smart ways that already are answering questions. And that would be all on your own website, right? But now when we’re talking, GEO, we’re talking about getting that content out to external sources and reinforcing many of the same things. So SEO, could say it’s about keywords. GEO is about credibility, but the LLMs, they still have to learn.

So those keywords are gonna be important for them even in your external sources. And overall, what we’re looking for with GEO is mentions and visibility, whether it’s you as an individual or your brand.

Shel Holtz (06:34.097)
One of those magic bullets that people have jumped on in the last few weeks is some research that found that Reddit is the source of a lot of the content that is turning up in AI results. And Professor Malik just a couple of days ago, Ethan Malik at the Wharton School said essentially, nope, he said what they did was look at how often the sites come up in the answers at least once in the web search function of some AI agents when they do a web search for more information in response to a keyword search. He points out that the company searched for a bunch of keywords using Google AI mode and ChatGPT web search and perplexity, and then said they measured how many times those sites were included in the reply.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that if you’re doing research or if you’re just in one of the LLMs doing your job, that Reddit or Quora for that matter will be the dominant source of the information that you get. And yet this chart is everywhere and everybody’s talking about it. I confess, I went to our leadership in the organization I work and I said, we need to be in Reddit. And now…

It appears I was just chasing a shiny object or a magic bullet. How do you stay on top of what is working in this generative EO space?

Stephanie Grober (08:16.376)
So as a marketer, always have to think about which channels make the most sense for your brand or your individual brand, whoever you’re representing. Like I said, we work in legal with law firms. So Reddit is not exactly the space. There are some very famous attorneys who’ve done ask me any things on Reddit, and I’m sure that is helping them. I do believe that user generated content sites are coming up in GEO.

AI overviews simply because of how the content is structured in a very human questioning way, but it’s not going to be the right place for everybody. So when we take a look at that at Horowitz agency as PR professionals working with law firms or other other business professionals, there’s some other interesting stats. I think that stood out. So Muckrack put out a great report recently also analyzing which sites are read by AI.

And I believe it was almost 30 % of the sources are journalistic outlets with prominence and attention paid to outlets like Reuters, AP, Axios, for example. So those are sort of your tier one media. So that is a strategy you can employ for your credibility. If you don’t think that Reddit is the right place for you, okay, then let’s go after the tier one media

Now I will caveat that by saying, niche outlets are also very important to AI. So don’t think that you have to be an AP or Reuters. If you ask a niche question, it is very likely that the AI is going to read a niche or trade press outlet. So those are very valuable as well. But overall journalistic sources are a very valuable way to start appearing in GEO results. That’s where from a PR perspective, we can start maximizing our approach and our strategies, tailoring them there to support GEO.

@nevillehobson (10:21.792)
You emphasised the importance of securing tier one coverage, all those publications you mentioned, the idea being that being visible in such places can influence how generative engines surface content. But coverage like that takes time, doesn’t it? And it isn’t always immediate. So how do you advise professional services firms to balance the longer term credibility building with the short term pressure to be visible in generative search results?

Stephanie Grober (10:51.534)
Absolutely. It does not happen overnight. That’s something we tell our clients and probably any PR professional or communications professional in-house is going to share with stakeholders. You know, we don’t wake up, decide to do PR and land a New York Times article the next day

So the best approach today is to make sure that as part of your overall marketing plan, PR is included and you have a comprehensive… hopefully you already have that, but if you don’t have that and you’re thinking, I want to make sure that we’re doing GEO right, don’t neglect PR. There’s a few parts of the PR process. First one is just having your sources become media trained and responsive. And again, that takes time to be comfortable speaking to the press, to identify what they want to comment on, to give good sound bites.

That all takes some practice. So somebody who’s just starting out in PR might not be comfortable if the Wall Street Journal calls them on day one and they’re like, this is my first rodeo. So you wanna have some practice working with smaller outlets. Again, working with those trade publications which are still going to be very valuable.

So we don’t only wanna prioritize tier one, but just having a variety of PR opportunities, seeing what works best, that’s something that takes some time. So if you’re not already doing that as part of your PR strategies, the time to start is now, it’s all going to benefit your GEO. And then another key part of this is making sure the messaging is consistent. And that is down to the way you are cited in the press, for example

So, you know, as one example that comes to mind is if you’re somebody who is always referred to in the press as a celebrity criminal defense attorney over and over, that’s going to train the LLMs. When somebody is searching for a celebrity criminal defense attorney, you’re gonna come up in that AI overview because the reporters have referred to you that way in interviews. So how you present yourself to the media and how they cite you is important. It’s important to be consistent.

And then of course, you know, what you’re saying in each opportunity matters too, but I think down to the way that you are cited is, very key.

@nevillehobson (13:24.213)
I’ve got just a quick follow up on that tier one element before we kind of move on from that. But I’m just curious, actually, Stephanie, because you mentioned earlier the names of a couple of the new media, if I can call that, people like Axios. Isn’t the landscape evolving so fast, generally speaking, the media landscape that trying to kind of give labels or pigeonhole a media property as this is tier one and it’s
based on those old definitions back from print media days, I suspect. We’ve got, know, Exhaust is one of the new ones, but there are any number of I’ve never heard of you type of outlet by influencers, quote unquote, who have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers. And I’m wondering, Shel, I’ve talked quite a bit about nano influences and others who are kind of disrupting the traditional ways in which things are structured.

So where does this fit in that case? And probably the example you gave is someone brand new to this to PR just starting out suddenly is immersed in all this. What, how do you deal with this in this changing environment?

Stephanie Grober (14:36.91)
So the media landscape has changed drastically. Reporters in newsrooms, there’s been mass layoffs. What I think is interesting about GEO is as we’re saying GEO is so important, journalists are struggling. Newsrooms are letting people go. They’re restructuring at the same time. So how does GEO exist without journalism? And I hope that it demonstrates the… need and necessity of great journalism.

They can’t exist without each other because otherwise, you know, what has authority, what do we trust, right, to build a response from the AI. So like you said, Nebel, the landscape is changing. There’s new outlets every day. That continues to happen to myself and my team. We’re constantly discovering new outlets.

There’s journalists who have left major newsrooms, who have started their own newsletters, they’re on Substack, they’re podcasting. All of this is important, is the good news when we’re talking GEO, because GEO assesses a very wide variety of sources, including video, including podcasts. So I recommend that anyone who is wading into PR take as many opportunities as they’re comfortable with.

And again, don’t only hold out for Wall Street Journal and New York Times. Take a variety because you never know what is going to give you the most bang for your buck or where somebody is going to discover you. This is all about discoverability. This is about mentions. And the more you can do it, the better. All of the LLMs have their own way of reviewing sources at this point. They are not consistent.

There is not one formula that they’re using, whether it’s chat GPT or Claude or perplexity. Some of them use journalistic sources at a higher rate than others. Some of them use smaller outlets. Some of them have partnerships with major newsrooms like Financial Times to train the AI. So we’re in the very early stages.

That’s why, again, I don’t think that there is a one size fits all formula. I don’t think that there is a magic bullet today where it’s do it this way or you’re going to fail. It’s be prepared to be flexible, but be everywhere that you can. So as things shift, you’re still ahead of the curve. And anyone who has been a marketer through the rise of digital marketing, I think is probably familiar with that, and anyone who has been on the internet since the beginning of the internet is probably familiar with that, right?

When I grew up, it was the dawn of Wikipedia and things have really changed. We just got Google. I remember the first time a librarian told me about Google. So this is all gonna change. It’s gonna change very rapidly. It could go away. It could be the most important part of marketing I don’t think we know yet.

Shel Holtz (17:50.39)
How do you measure all of this? The success metrics for traditional SEO are pretty clear and not that difficult, but what should PR people be paying attention to in GEO? I’ve seen things like share of answers, citation rate, sentiment and model responses. What’s genuinely measurable that’s meaningful today?

Stephanie Grober (18:16.046)
So there are definitely some tools that are purporting to provide AI analytics, GEO analytics, which are available. I think the best way to measure today is simply through your own experimentation. Enter the questions you think your clients are asking in search, read the overviews, do you come up? Are your competitors coming up? And use that as a guide to see where you need to focus your efforts.

And again, it might be certain keywords, certain questions that you want to prioritize, but that’s the easiest way just to be the end user and see how you come up, ask, ask the LLMs to describe you, to describe your brand, your company and see what comes back to you. so again, it’s not going to be perfect. We see a lot of errors or mistakes or misassignments of names and things when we do this.

So, you know, this is not the be all and end all to being successful. And I will say that, you know, AI search accounts today for, I think less than 30 % of search traffic. So, fortunately it’s not the only driver of traffic and, you know, discoverability, so we have a little time to iron out those kinks.

@nevillehobson (19:35.906)
That’s really interesting. In episode 479 of this podcast, the one I mentioned earlier that we did, knowing we’re going to talk to you today, we talked about companies spinning up standalone, community driven content brands that become credible in their own right. When does that approach do you think makes sense? And what safeguards keep it authentic, rather than just a thin GEO play?

Stephanie Grober (20:03.592)
Unique content is incredibly smart. So if that is something that is sustainable for your company and your brand, I think it’s a brilliant idea. Content is king everywhere and in every industry, I think some more than others, but content is really king. So it just needs to be something that is sustainable. If you have users generating content, that’s excellent.

in working with attorneys thought leadership is huge. Attorneys are always writing. They’re speaking. can repurpose their content. So there’s always fresh content going up, on websites and things like that. one thing I wanted to mention too, as, as we’re discussing this, whether it’s a brand that builds their own content platform, or a company working with content in another way is that the LLMs prefer recent and fresh content.

So, you if you were writing or speaking or quoted in the press five, six, seven years ago, that’s not gonna help you today. It’s time to get back out there. In the past 12 months or so is ideal with ongoing fresh content. So just something to keep in mind because I know, you know, time passes quickly and we’re like, when was I quoted? No, it was like five years ago.

Anyway, back to the content. I think that’s a very smart and strategic play if it can be supported. We know that marketers only have so much time in their day. There’s a lot of things that demand attention. So you have to choose to prioritize what makes the most sense and is a sustainable effort for your team.

Shel Holtz (21:43.063)
In that episode that we recorded this week and in a previous episode, in fact, that we dedicated to this topic, we discussed the argument that press releases need to be reformulated for algorithms. I’m skeptical of that. How do you adapt or should you adapt everyday PR assets, whether it’s press releases, content that goes on your company’s website newsroom? Thought leadership pieces from your executives on LinkedIn or wherever? How do you adapt those so they’re more likely to be used and cited by LLMs but still useful for the human readers they were originally designed for?

Stephanie Grober (22:32.75)
Absolutely. And when I listen to that art that that episode rather, you know, one thing that crosses my mind is, is, you know, part of me wants to say the press release is dead. Can we say that? I’m not sure. It feels like it might be dead, but there is also a school of thought that GEO is reviving the press release.

Now, if you put out press release across the wire, meaning in most cases you’re paying to put it out across the wire, that might be something that hits an LLM and is used to train on a certain topic. So in some ways, a press release still can have influence in that way. Other than that, the typical press release is not going far these days. It’s very difficult to maximize a press release.

We are competing for attention in the media landscape. There are less journalists. There is more news. The news cycle is shortened. It’s not even 24 hours. It’s about 24 minutes, it feels like most times. So just your standard press release, not put across the wire, not going far for most companies, you know, unless you are a enterprise corporation or, you know, very exciting in some other way.

@nevillehobson (23:58.229)
Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think it’s interesting. Is the press release dead? It’s a topic that pops up frequently. I think Shel and I have talked about this, the press release is dead, at least six times in the last six years. It could be more.

Shel Holtz (24:12.945)
By the way, I do like to remind people that for compliance purposes in the U.S., they still have some value, regulatory compliance.

Stephanie Grober (24:20.301)
Yes.

@nevillehobson (24:20.936)
Yeah, I’m sure that’s the same here in the UK too, although it may not be specifically a press release, a device you need to have as a compliance record. But I mean, it’s a thorny question because I see people commenting on this here and there on social networks particularly now and again that, yes, this is dead and B, no, it’s not.

But this notion of repurposing press releases to take into account the audience change, i.e. it’s not people, it’s the algorithm. I’m not using the word machine. I see people talk about it’s the machines. It’s not the machines. It’s the algorithm, right? So I think that is a credible view.

I disagree with you there, Shel. I think that is something that we are seeing that you need to prepare your content to publish it online with two audiences in mind, which are the humans and the algorithms. And the example Shel mentioned that we discussed specifically in an episode was somebody who has thought this through, it’s a really good visual explainers on the differences between them. They made a lot of sense to me, I have to say.

But is it going to be like the press release, the social media press release from 2006 to 2010, that was a template of the things you should include for social media to take advantage of it generated quite a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz, lot of hype and ultimately just kind of faded away. It didn’t really, you know, attract a lot of attention.

Is this likely to be the same case? I wonder. So I think this does this is important this change along with all the other things that we’ve been discussing. And I just wonder where this is going to fit if people are going to be creating press releases where the prime audience they’re thinking of is an algorithm. Where does that fit into the picture?

Stephanie Grober (26:19.436)
Well, there’s the algorithm, there’s the machines, but ultimately humans are still engaging with the content, right? So if the AI is gonna feed it back to us, it has to appeal to the human audience. So I think that there’s only so many differences between them. I personally have not seen a huge variation in the style of a great press release myself. And I think most communications professionals… I hope that most of them have a great sense of what it takes to have a really effective press release. I would say again, in the industries that I’ve worked in, that’s not changed very much regardless of whatever flashy marketing terms and strategies are in use at the time. But as far as getting it to hit,

The LLMs, the algorithm, it has to address the human at the end user who has a question and is seeking information and it has to answer that question.

Shel Holtz (27:23.025)
Yeah, that’s interesting because one of the very first arguments that I heard about what you need to do for your brand or your content to show up in the LLM results is to get away from saying what and get more into saying how. More explanations, more details. This leads me to believe that content marketing is probably a strong contributor to what LLMs get trained on.

I’m thinking of the great content marketing that comes out of Microsoft where they’ll have a lengthy feature, but it contains some short videos. It contains some short audio clips. It has infographics and photos and text. And it’s all there in that format so that whoever wants to use it can just grab that audio file and maybe use it in a radio broadcast or just grab that video clip and use it in a TV news report. Does that make sense? Should we be focused more on content marketing and less on more traditional forms of communication?

Stephanie Grober (28:34.432)
I think so. And I think how we are content marketing is important. The variety, the structuring of your content, exploring some Q and A type pieces is a great idea. And hopefully folks are already doing this because of SEO, right? It shouldn’t be such a surprise where your headings and the structuring of your content pieces were important. We see that in, in journalistic content too, right? There’s, there’s headings because news outlets want their articles to come up in search rankings as well.

So this shouldn’t be groundbreaking to anybody, but think about variety in your content. Think about making sure it’s answering questions, play with the format, use various types of multimedia to support your content. I think that is absolutely a sound approach today.

@nevillehobson (29:35.04)
So I’ve got a question about, you mentioned it actually, AI overviews earlier on in this conversation. Quite a simple question, really. Less and less people are clicking through. They’re gonna get their search results using Google and they’ll have then a summary on the right-hand side of the screen. And that gives them all they need and they do not proceed any further.

What impact is that having, do you think, and will continue to have on search generally and how you measure search, whether it’s GEO or SEO, how big of a concern should that be that people are not clicking through? And by the way, I’ve seen some reports in the last few days, which I haven’t bookmarked, frankly, but they’re talking about, you know, this is not what’s happening. People are clicking through. That doesn’t seem to fit what I see.

I don’t know, respectable search results being produced or data being produced showing that that is not the case. What’s your thought on that, Stephanie?

Stephanie Grober (30:36.482)
I think it’s so early still that we don’t know yet, right? Because AI, no, GEO, Generative Engine Optimization, the generative search results still make up a very low percentage of the overall engagement with our search engines. What I did see some reports of is that the click-throughs may not be to a brand’s homepage anymore but some of their internal blog pages or specific content pages. So I think it’s smart to make sure that those are optimized.

And again, it comes back to the content marketing that we were just talking about. Folks land somewhere else now in your website environment. I think it varies very much brand to brand, company to company, depends on what type of answer the end user was seeking.

And then again, we have to think, is everybody trusting AI? Personally today, I don’t fully trust the answers AI is giving me. I’m always going to go back and research them. Now that might change individual to individual, generation to generation, but it’s not perfect yet. So, you know, I don’t think we’re at a place where somebody is just going to solely get their questions answered by AI and go about their day.

Maybe we will get there and we will see a real sea change in the way web traffic works, but I don’t think this is going to completely break the system. And I don’t think it’s going to end search traffic as we know it. and you know, if folks are answering a question where they need something, they’re still going to have to click through to get it. AI can’t procure something for you. perhaps it can answer a question, but most likely you’re going to want to click through to read further and do your own research if the AI is just producing relevant sources for you.

Shel Holtz (32:38.473)
Your agency, Horowitz Agency, has to deal with an additional wrinkle with all of this, given the nature of the market sectors that you serve. Law firms, financial services, accuracy and compliance really aren’t negotiable in those industries. So how do you balance making content citable for AI, while staying inside the lines on confidentiality, disclaimers and regulatory restrictions?

Stephanie Grober (33:08.174)
I think what I love about legal marketing is that it is so professional and it tends to err more towards the traditional side of things and value just great marketing. So law firms don’t always go for flash in the pan. Law firms weren’t racing to be on TikTok, although there’s some lawyers who are very successful, but the new hot thing isn’t always what a law firm or a professional services firm is looking to do.

Rather, they embrace the fundamentals of great marketing and then make sure that everything that is put out adheres, complies, represents the brand consistently and correctly. There’s a lot of layers of approval. Anyone working in corporate marketing is probably very accustomed to that. And I think that that’s a great thing. We are not trying to utilize any gimmicks.

We are not trying to trick the AI because we have to stand behind what is put out on behalf of our clients. And when you’re talking about professional services, that’s really guidance and counsel to folks with very important personal or business questions.

Shel Holtz (34:24.593)
And let me ask you a quick follow-up question on that, as long as we’re talking about law firms and financial services. Those are pretty close to the top of the list of professions at risk from AI. Have you seen any movement among your clients in that direction? Are they starting to replace maybe paralegals or customer support people with AI?

Stephanie Grober (34:49.132)
Law firms are embracing AI, much like every industry, industry agnostic, think companies are embracing AI. They’re spending a lot of money on ways to incorporate AI into their processes. But I think it’s too early to say if any humans have been replaced. So what I get this sense from some major law firms is that they at the very lowest levels are taking away some of the hours of intensive research that might need to be done.

But then they are prioritizing the value giving advice that their professionals can provide. So it might not take as many billable hours on research, but you might get more value in the conversation with your attorney or advisor. Of course, marketers are using AI in very interesting ways.

But again, it’s not perfect. So I think it’s still very early stages. Certainly it’s not replacing anyone in these industries yet today. And we’ll see if we get to a point where it will. Now, the same can be said for communications professionals. Is AI going to take our jobs? I personally think if AI is writing all the content, then… wouldn’t we reach a point where human written content is actually at a premium and bespoke and in demand? Because how can you stand out in a sea of AI written content, right? That doesn’t sound appealing at all. I mean, that’s not what I wanna read. hopefully we’ll still be here in five years.

Shel Holtz (36:36.049)
Yeah, I just saw yesterday that Mark Benioff at Salesforce announced that they are letting 4,000 customer support people go and replacing them with AI. I was thinking on the financial services side that might be a similar trend at some point.

Stephanie Grober (36:54.516)
Mm-hmm. Perhaps, but I think it’s very risky in, you know, legal services, accounting, when you’re talking about that. you know, these industries are waiting in very carefully.

@nevillehobson (37:11.518)
We could do a whole episode just on this topic. So sticking with GEO looking ahead as I tend to do, there’s the horizon. Where do you see GEO going and evolving over the next year or so? And traditionally that question might be over the next five years. No, the next year or so. Do you think it will mature in that timeframe or will it need longer, becoming maybe a reliable discipline like SEO eventually did? Or is it more likely to, I guess, remain a contentious topic? People not agreeing on what it’s for, but there’s good practices that we’ll see emerging amongst all the hype. How do you see it, Stephanie?

Stephanie Grober (37:58.167)
It’s very hard for me to predict. At this point, there’s not an easy way for all of us to opt out of AI search results with every search engine. If that were to become an option, would folks just simply turn it off? And would we not even need to have this conversation if it simply falls from sort of the consciousness? Or is it going to be continued to be sort of forced upon us as search engine users?

Of course there was the Google antitrust case decision this week where, know, they’re keeping chrome and Gemini is going to be, feeding us its results. So I don’t see that going anywhere in the next year. I will be watching to see if AI search gets smarter and gets more accurate. and how our clients or those I work with appear in the search. So it will be sort of testing for us.

Of course, we’ll be looking out for more case studies of it leading to work. Anecdotally, there are folks in legal who are saying, yes, I’ve gotten clients from chat GPT searches, which is great. I personally know that there are some attorneys I’ve worked with in corporate law, for example, who after a great streak of appearing in outlets like Wall Street Journal, CFO.com, know, AI will tell me about them if I say who is a great &A attorney in Los Angeles. That’s what I want to see. That’s what I’ll be looking for in the next year. I can’t say that definitively we’re going to see a sweeping change more than that.

Shel Holtz (39:44.634)
In the episode that we recorded earlier this week, I mentioned that I had read an article about, I think it was a LinkedIn article from somebody who said he had tripled the volume of output in order to have more content out there that could be hoovered up by the models in the hopes that the volume would lead to more visibility in results.

I’m not sure that’s the answer, but certainly budgets aren’t keeping up with volume. The point was made that this individual did not get more budget to help create all that content. So if your firm were hired by a communications leader and asked you to adjust their content strategy for GEO, what process changes would you recommend, say, over the first 90 days?

Stephanie Grober (40:42.35)
Absolutely great question. One thing I wanted to mention too, when we’re talking about important content right now is rankings, reviews. So whether it’s professional rankings for an individual or best of lists, I would make sure that a client is incorporating those into their strategy. Because what better way to train an LLM than by appearing on a best of list from the last six to eight months, right? That’s exactly what you want to come up for most likely in a search.

We do probably over 500 nominations for our clients each year. So that is always a part of our strategy, but very important. I’d be looking at online reviews, whether for a company, could be your Google My Business reviews. It could be Yelp, Facebook, wherever you might get reviewed, in whatever way you might get reviewed. And then making sure that the client is out there, mentioned and visible again.

Each month, fresh mentions in journalistic outlets, whether they are prestige media or trade press, they still have value. Multimedia, getting them on video, getting them in podcasts anywhere we can. And then from a content strategy as a marketer, hopefully at this point you are repurposing, but use AI and let it help you repurpose.

There’s so many tips and tricks that marketers can use when it comes to AI. And that includes taking what you already have and making it new, repurposing it into different formats to make your job a little bit easier. So that today is one of the biggest benefits of having AI available to us as a tool to make content production easier.

@nevillehobson (42:30.014)
You make a good case for that, Stephanie. That’s exactly what I say to people. If you don’t use it or you’re skeptical, this is one thing you could do, you’ll benefit from doing this. That’s been great, this conversation. I think we’ve reached a point now for that famous question, Shel mentioned at the very beginning, which is, what didn’t we ask you that you really wish we had?

Stephanie Grober (42:53.998)
You know, I think a great question would be what is going to be the greatest impact that AI has on PR, public relations, and communication? I think those industries are still inherently human. I think they are relationship driven. I don’t think that we’re ever going to take humans out of the equation.

So even as we are working to boost GEO results, doing public relations, getting media mentions, we’re working with people. You have a PR professional, you have a client source, you have a journalist who’s a person, and that is still very valuable. AI can’t do that for us, it’s relationship driven. So make sure people are doing your PR, not AI.

@nevillehobson (43:43.818)
To kind of add add to that topic, Shel and I have talked about a few times on the podcast during this year. And it’s in the kind of area of AI agents, but it’s looking at I think, Shel’s phrase for it is ‘synthetic employees,’ where you have you have a situation that isn’t too far fetched in the near future, whether that means two years, five or 10, I don’t know where think about your team and your organization, where you’ve got maybe 15 people in that team of which three perhaps might be AIs effectively. So this isn’t like, you know, some of the illustrations you see on posts where you’ve got people and there’s like a robot in there. It’s not like that. I don’t know what it’ll be like. It might be like that actually

But is that kind of like a serious disruptive element suddenly appearing on the horizon that will have a huge impact on this amongst many, many, but think specifically what we’re discussing today and the change it might bring to that where you’re introducing AI team members in a team. What do you think about that?

Stephanie Grober (45:00.706)
I think that there are tasks AI can do well, but when it comes down to communications, strategic thinking, most of us don’t like it. We don’t love fully AI generated content, right? Where nobody’s reviewed it. We’re not thrilled. Journalists most often don’t want to get pitches that were written by AI, outlets don’t want to receive articles that were written by AI

So, you we pitch byline articles for clients all the time. A lot of newsrooms now have a, you know, a disclaimer that we may reject your piece if we think it’s written by AI. So it remains to be seen, you know, there are AI helpers, they’re on our teams right now, you know, how many companies are incorporating AI, we do have AI teammates.

We’re figuring out the best use for them. Some are better than others. Some are more trusting of AI than others. And some folks are more clever to use it as a tool than others. when it comes to communicating back and forth with artificial intelligence completely, the more strategic and in depth you get, just don’t know if that’s what we’re going to see in the very near future.

Shel Holtz (46:29.649)
Yeah, I have an AI colleague now. I have a two-person communication team where I work myself and one colleague and no budget for consulting. And so what I did was it took about four or five hours because I really worked on this, but I created a custom GPT who’s the senior communications consultant with a specialization in my industry. it doesn’t do stuff for me, but it’s a sounding board.

If I develop a strategy and I want somebody to play devil’s advocate, I can’t go to my $400 an hour consultant, I don’t have a budget for that. So I’ll just ask the AI consultant. I realize that it’s not as good, but in the absence of any alternatives, it’s fine. And it has come up with some really good responses. So…

Stephanie Grober (47:18.7)
Yeah, and I dare say that you’re probably, you know, far ahead of some others. So learning how to use it, learning how to maximize its output, how to get the most out of it and have consistent results, I think is where we should all strive to be today. And then in the meantime, you know, follow many voices on AI, on GEO.

It’s changing, it’s evolving so rapidly that, you know, don’t put all your eggs into one basket. Don’t buy into a one size fits all approach today. It’s still too soon. And don’t abandon your other marketing strategies or tactics in favor of some of the AI driven ones.

Shel Holtz (48:03.843)
Yeah, as we pointed out in that episode from earlier this week, recommendations from people you know are still top of the heap. Stephanie, this has been great. We really appreciate your taking the time to talk with us today. How can our listeners find you and maybe read some of what you share online?

Stephanie Grober (48:23.146)
LinkedIn is great. Stephanie Grober. I’m with Horowitz Agency. Love LinkedIn, I’m constantly talking to my clients about spending more time on LinkedIn. So I’d love to connect with anybody there. Our website is HorowitzAgency.com. And I look forward to keeping the conversation going.

Thank you guys very much for the time today.

The post FIR Interview: Generative Engine Optimisation with Stephanie Grober appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss how agency owners should handle employees with physical and mental health concerns.

They cover the increased openness around mental health and self-care, sharing personal experiences and business challenges. They highlight the importance of individualized management approaches, legal considerations, and quick professional advice.

The hosts also emphasize compassionate handling of employee health issues, the need for flexible scheduling, and the impact on small businesses. Gini shares insights on providing support for team members and owners, such as disability insurance, to cover long-term absences.

They conclude by underlining the importance of empathetic leadership and offering flexibility. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 281: Supporting team members with mental and physical health challenges appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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2025 is sure to present a new set of challenges for communication professionals. Solving them will require creativity, innovation, and new thinking (which is not something AI can do!). This team of Fellows from the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) will delve into breakthrough thinking, sharing ideas on how the creative process works. Discover how to find sources of inspiration while setting boundaries and allowing time for breaks. They will share thoughts about tools to push your thinking in new and innovative directions without exhausting yourself. Now is the time to learn the tips and tricks to fueling creativity even in the toughest moments.

The livestream, moderated by Shel Holtz, SCMP, is scheduled for 4 p.m. EDT on Thursday, January 16. Participants are encouraged to share questions, observations, and comments during the session, using YouTube’s comment feature. If you are unable to join us for the livestream, watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast, both of which will be available shortly after the livestream ends.

About the panel:

Although Zora Artis began her career outside the communications field, she has had an outsize impact on the profession since entering it more than 20 years ago to as an account director and then strategic planner with branding and integrated marcomms agencies. Since then, she has led her own brand and communications consultancy and served as CEO of a 20-person creative, digital, and strategic communication firm. In 2019, formed her current management consulting practice bringing together strategic alignment, brand, and communication expertise. She has received five Gold Quill awards. Her significant contributions to the profession and the body of knowledge include her original research with IABC colleague, Wayne Aspland, on strategic alignment, the role of communications and leadership – the first substantial research effort for the reconfigured IABC Foundation – and co-authoring a subsequent white paper, “The Road to Alignment,” supported by 27 senior communicators from five continents. Zora has also researched the correlation between strategic alignment and experiences and the impact on stakeholder value and brand. This has led her to develop her own proprietary Alignment Experience Framework. She has also examined gender equity, perceptions, and bias in organizations, and wrote a chapter on this topic for the Quadriga University e-reader, Women in PR. Since joining IABC a decade ago, she has impacted IABC as a volunteer, including roles as chair of the IABC Asia Pacific Region and IEB director; she currently serves as the chair of the 2022 World Conference Program Advisory Committee. A certified company director, as chair of the IABC Audit and Risk Committee she introduced proper risk oversight to the board’s processes. Zora has been honored with the 2021 and the 2015 IABC Chair’s Award for Leadership and was named IABC’s 2020 Regional Leader of the Year. She is also a Strategic Communication Management Professional, Fellow of the Australian Marketing Institute, and Certified Practicing Marketer.

Diane Gayeski is recognized as a thought leader in the practice and teaching of business communications. She is Professor of Strategic Communications at the Roy H. Park School of Communications at Ithaca College and provides consulting in communications analysis and strategies through Gayeski Analytics. Diane was recently inducted as an IABC Fellow; she’s been active in IABC for more than 30 years as a featured speaker and think-tank leader at the international conference, the author of 3 editions of the IABC-published book, Managing the Communications Function, and the advisor to Ithaca College’s student chapter. She’s led more than 300 client engagements for clients, including the US Navy, Bank of Montreal, Fiat, Sony, Abbott Diagnostics, and Borg-Warner, focusing on assessing and building the capacities and new technologies for workplace communications and learning teams.

Andrea Greenhous’s life’s purpose is to improve the world of work. For over 30 years, she has helped organizations improve the employee experience and build workplaces where people thrive. As founder and president of Vision2Voice, an internal communications agency, Andrea and her dedicated team help organizations adopt a strategic approach to employee communications to achieve results. Andrea has led initiatives and transformation projects for Fortune 500 technology companies, large government departments, and organizations as diverse as construction, biotech, finance, and higher education. This has led to a signature approach emphasizing harnessing employee voices and amplifying their insights and ideas.

Andrea is a storyteller, a PROSCI-certified change leader, and Dare to Lead trained based on the work and research of Brené Brown. She is also a certified Fearless Organization Practitioner. She uses the tools and processes developed by Amy C. Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, to build psychological safety in teams. Andrea has been named one of the top 10 influencers in internal communications and is a frequent guest blogger and speaker at industry events.

Martha Muzychka, ABC, MC, speaks, writes, listens, and helps others do the same to make change happen. Martha is a strategic, creative problem solver seeking challenging communications environments where we can make a difference. She helps her clients navigate competing priorities and embrace communication challenges. Martha offers strategic planning, facilitation, consultation services, writing and editing, qualitative research, and policy analysis. Her work has been recognized locally, nationally, and internationally with multiple awards.

The post Sparking Creativity: IABC Fellows to Share Ideas for Breakthrough Thinking appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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For Immediate Release launched on January 3, 2005. Episode #1 explained what podcasting is, then looked at the role blogs played in the tsunami tragedy in Asia. On our 20th anniversary, Neville and Shel recall FIR’s origins and the many changes the show has undergone in two decades, some significant milestones, memorable moments, some of the challenges we have faced over the years, and other recollections. We will return to our normal programming next week.

Links from this episode:

• FIR Episode #1
• First mention of podcasting for business (Rex Hammock) in September 2024
• FIR Interview: Michael Whiley at GM on the GM Blog (February 22, 2005)
• FIR Interview with Steve Rubel (March 26, 2005)
• FIR #100 (January 5, 2006)
• FIR #191: Two Decades in 2.5 Hours (January 20, 2020)
• Pivoting the FIR Podcast (January 10, 2022)
• FIR at 19: A Milestone in Podcasting
• FIR #377: Two Decades of Podcasting (January 5, 2024)
• Podcast Statistics and Data, Buzzsprout
• The Future of Podcasting: 9 Trends for Creators & Companies”, Riverside
• “The Power of Podcasts: Why Every Business Needs a Voice in 2025”, One Zero Creative

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 27.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw transcript:

Hi everyone, and welcome to for immediate release. This is episode 4, 4 3. I’m Neville Hobson in the uk. And I’m she Holtz in the us. And if you didn’t recognize the opening the usual opening was not played today to introduce FIR. That’s the opening that we used when we were brand new. And today the day we are dropping this episode, January 3rd, 2025 is the 20th anniversary.

FIR. We launched this podcast on January 3rd, 2005. Neville. At the beginning you mentioned that this is episode 442, and that’s correct. In terms of the renumbering that I started some time ago we did 824 episodes behind before that. So this is actually episode number 1000. [00:01:00] 266, and that does not take into account the FIR interviews, the FIR book reviews, the FIR lives, and some of the other things that we have done, were probably up around I would say 1400 episodes of podcasting altogether in the 20 years.

We’ve been at this, and today what we’re gonna do is take a look back. We wanna just have a chat about what it’s been like these last 20 years and tell you how all of this came about where we’re at and where we’re headed. This all started with a conversation. In November of 2004 you had heard of podcasting Neville.

I had heard of podcasting. And both of us had started blogs because we had heard of them. Assumed that this was going to be something that, would be important in the world of communications and that the best way to learn about it and be responsive to [00:02:00] our clients about it. We were both I was consulting at the time and you were working for an organization out of the Netherlands.

We thought the best way to learn about it would be to do it. And having listened to a lot of podcasts, we thought that we would break the mold and have. Co-hosts rather than one person just going on and on into a microphone. There was one co-hosted podcast at the time. It was the Dawn and Drew show, I think.

I believe they were a husband and wife, and it was meant to be humorous and rude. And we wanted to give something back to the communications industry. So we decided to start. This we posted an MP three test file to make sure the technology would work more on that coming up in December of 2004, and then launched our first episode, which listening to now just makes me cringe on the 3rd of January.

It was cringeworthy 2005. Yeah, it was cringeworthy the audio quality, not too brilliant as we hear it today, but [00:03:00] at the time, not too bad. Yeah. Among other things, I remember the audio artifacts that you would get over Skype, but we’ll talk more about the technology in a bit. Yeah. Over the years, we have changed the frequency.

This is, this has been a very inconsistent podcast as you’ll hear we started off weekly and the more we went along, the longer the episodes got because of the. The number of things there were to talk about and how much there was going on in the world of communication and technology. So then we went bi-weekly and at some point we went back to weekly.

Then when we reinvigorated this podcast not too long ago, we decided that it would be. Monthly. And then we started doing these midweek episodes because there were things we wanted to talk about and not wait for the monthly episode. So this, that’s one of the changes we went through.

There, there were a lot as you noted. I [00:04:00] agree. I think the frequency thing was something we, as you say too, and froze with a lot. We, but we were back in those days and hasn’t really changed a lot I think. Bursting at the seams to talk about topics that interested us quite a bit.

And as you said, when we started I was actually transitioning out of the company I worked for, I was based in Amsterdam at the time that had been acquired by someone else, and my job had gone, so I was looking for. Things to do. I’d picked up some interesting consulting work on blogs at that time, and I was thinking about podcasting quite a bit, but like you said I certainly wasn’t keen in doing a solo thing, much more interest to have someone to talk to.

And then lo and behold, you and I talked. The rest is history, as they say. That was good. That’s right. And I should point out that we knew each other through I-A-E-B-C and had collaborated before on at an IABC conference when online communication was taking place through CompuServe in the PR and marketing forum in the [00:05:00] IEBC hyperspace section of the PR sig.

We. Coordinated a and an effort among all of the IABC members in that space who were at the conference to essentially live log that conference that was a conference in Boston at that time. So that was, that’s right. That was quite, that was a precursor to what was to come that we now know is FIR.

But I think the yeah, that was the first instance I can remember of anybody live talking. Yeah. Yeah, the thinking about the word podcasting, there’s a lot of talk about this. Oh it was invented by so and so back in 1990, whatever. And the first person to use it was X and all that kind of stuff.

What resonated with me, the first reference to business podcasting was by a guy called Rex Hammock, who was a very prominent blogger at the time, A CEO blogger. As it happened, ran his own company. I remember in September of 20 of 2004, he wrote a blog post, and I’ll read the section that he mentioned.

He said talking a bit about executive communication using [00:06:00] social media or blogs. No one had the term social media at that time. He said, I can see a much quicker adoption timeline for CEO podcasting than CEO blogging. Stick a microphone in front of a CEO and say, what would you like to tell your employees today?

You get a much quicker buy-in than sitting a keyboard in front of ’em and saying, blog A messages for the world to read. A word of warning to corporate communicator, type says Rex. Don’t script it for the CEO With podcasting voices, not a metaphor for writing in a conversational, believable fashion, voice is actually voice.

That’s 20 years ago. I think that still resonates today, shall don’t it. It does, although it turns out to only be semi prescient because podcasting certainly has taken off to the point that it’s influential in presidential elections now. But I would say the number of companies doing internal podcasting is still relatively low.

There’s not a lot of CEOs talking into microphones to record a podcast and sharing with their employees what they wanna share that day. [00:07:00] A couple of other changes in format that we went through. One when we started, we were doing interviews within our episodes, and as they got longer and longer, one of our first thoughts was if we started an interview podcast, then our show could just be us and.

The interviews can be in the interview feed. So we split that out and as I mentioned before, that led to book reviews and a feed we used to call speakers and speeches when we were able to record our talks or get permission to share other people’s talks that we thought were relevant to our audience. We also changed the format.

We started off calling it four immediate release but as we started these other shows and calling them FIR book reviews. FIR this and FIR that we decided to change the name of this show to the Hobson and Holtz report which continued up through episode 8 24. But that’s when you took a hiatus.

Work got very busy and I changed the format of the show where I was putting together a panel of communicators. Yeah, every week which [00:08:00] was a lot of work, but it was a lot of fun. And then you joined me on a couple of those panels and then had a hankering to return to the show. Yeah, we, the hiatus started in 2015 where as you said it was a pretty a pretty busy, extremely challenging time.

And that was not long before I, I packed it all in and joined IBM which is was in the kind of wings as it were. And, but I had a, I did have a hankering, I was a guest on a couple of episodes in early 2017, and then we decided to get back together again. That was a, 2017 was a year I took off my dad had died and there was a lot of stuff going on.

So the timing from this contextual point of view was just right. And so we did that. And here we are. Here we are eight years on, still doing it. Oh one. One other thing to mention before we move on to a another related topic is that we have had a number of correspondence over the year. We. We don’t do that anymore.

But this began because we were getting audio comments from Lee Hopkins out of [00:09:00] Australia. And one day I said, if he keeps sending in these audio comments, we might as well just make him a correspondent. And then we, the next comment we got from him was, this is Lee Hopkins, your correspondent from started doing what was called the Asia report. And then when he wasn’t able to continue doing that, Michael Nestley stepped in and did, yeah. The Asia report. We also had regular reports from folks like Mark Story and David Phillips and Eric Schwartzman. Yeah. From Hollywood. Yeah, Michael Nesty was based in Singapore.

Lee was in, in Adelaide, in, in Australia. David Phillips is based here in the uk. Eric Schwar, as you said. In Hollywood. Mark, I think, was in Washington at that time. He was Eric’s now I believe in New York. I forget to not forget to mention Dan York, who’s the longest. Correspondent in this context, and he’s still with us filing his tech report every month.

He’s in the US East Coast, I think Vermont at the moment. So yeah, pretty global reach with all these guys. And thinking about Lee funnily enough, I remember [00:10:00] the I ident we created for him and you found a guy on one of those services that would create. Jingles and intros and all that kind of stuff to introduce.

Yeah. Today I would just use Suno. Yeah, the one he one, the one this for Lee, that was well done by the guy who recorded it was, put another shrimp on the Barbie. It was so characteristically stereotypically Australian was the point we were trying to get across. And Lee was a really good sport.

He really played to that well. So that was a, that was an interesting branding perspective. It was fun while it lasted. Yep. We’re gonna talk about some of the milestones that we recall from over the years. And Neville, you’re gonna take the lead on that. There are just two I wanted to mention before you do.

One is our interview with Richard Edelman. He agreed to, to speak with us. I believe he was at the gym. And, my, my guess is he was using a payphone at that point and dialing in somewhere. But it was a great interview. It was almost an hour. We covered a lot of ground. And then when was that?

Do you have the [00:11:00] end, the date? I don’t, I can find that out. I’ll put a link to it in the show notes, but it was in, and I don’t have a date on, it was in the, it was in the early days. So roughly would’ve been around what, 2006, 2007. That kind of time. Probably, maybe a little later. Okay. I’ll look it up while you’re covering some of the highlights and see if I can put a date on that.

Okay. As well as the other one. And this is one that I continue to reference today. In conversations with people, various contexts, and this was an interview we did with two gentlemen. One of them, I can’t recall his name but he had been an attorney in the trucking industry in the US and now was.

Crossing the United States meeting with hospitals to try to teach them that. Listening to your lawyers and sending doctors who have made a mistake during surgery into their rooms to hide and call their lawyers led to less favorable outcomes [00:12:00] than simply admitting to the family or the patient what had happened, why and how you’re gonna make it right.

The other was Helio Fred Garcia. From the Logos Institute, and I believe he’s at Columbia University. I’ve seen Fred speak oh, four or five times. We’ve had several conversations. I’ve read a couple of his books and that was a, just a spectacular conversation, just a real revelation in terms of the insights that are provided.

Into crisis communication despite everything we, we read and see and study and all the sessions we go to at conferences. You think you’ve heard it all, but this was just loaded with Revelations. It was a great interview. There’s a lot we could have picked to include in this episode to talk about milestones.

But if we’d done ’em all, we’ve been here to rival the two and a half hours episode that we did in 2020. So we haven’t done that. Good ones to mention. It was not easy. But there are quite a few that struck me [00:13:00] as memorable. Back in those very early days. In particular one that come, came to mind was the interview we did with Michael Wiley, who was the, his title at the time, director of New Media at general Motors, GM Communications.

And that was a milestone because General Motors was very active with a blog. Where the chief Blogger was a man called Bob Lutz, who’s big. Figure in the US auto industry. He was blogging about small block engines, the cars, the works, and the bog was called the GM Fast Lane Blog. And they were also experimenting with podcasting.

And so they were very early business adopters of. Blogs and podcasts long time long before we called it social media and indeed Michael’s, Michael Bo title directed New Media. That was a phrase that was in common use at the time. So we had a only a 20 minute conversation with Michael, but it was a kind of a scoop for us to get the huge interest at that [00:14:00] time in what a big corporation like General Motors is doing with new media.

So we had a conversation with Michael. That was a great chat and he told us what the primary goal’s worth for the Fast Lane blog, and that was a kind of a scoop to be able to share that fact publicly. Now, of course, looking back 20 years it was it doesn’t seem such a bigger deal. And indeed, I would say most people have gone through all that since then in, in what they’re trying to do from business point of view.

But he said, just to quote him. To get beyond our old ways of communication with a new direct line of communication to all stakeholders. That’s the primary objective. So unfiltered communication, that was a phrase Bob Lutz used quite a bit direct to the audience, bypassing the middleman, which is the PR firms, the ad agencies, the mainstream media, all that revolutionary notions at the time, not.

Unpopular, but contentious to many typical communications issuing press releases. Said [00:15:00] Michael, talking to the media who repurposed your messages for you, and there’s no way for customers to get their thoughts back to you. We’ve been wanting to create this direct line of communication so that our various stakeholders aren’t going to message boards to talk about us.

They have an opportunity to come and talk directly to us. We’re big into getting feedback from our customers, employees, and others. Taking their comments to become a better company and develop better products. We’re really getting some excellent feedback just about every discussion we have on the Fast Lean blog.

We’ve had an excellent dialogue. That may not sound a big deal, Dave. That was a huge deal back then. A big company like that. A public listed company talking about direct communication with customers and soliciting direct feedback, bypassing all the usual channels. That was revolutionary. So that was really great getting that opportunity to hear all those things.

And Michael told us at length other things too about how they were looking to expand that with other bloggers. But Bob Lutz was the star blogger without any question. He also told us a little bit [00:16:00] about their plans for podcasting. But it was the blog that was the big deal. And we had other things quite a bit too, actually.

We talked a bit about. How communicate, or rather this followed on a couple days later, actually, other communicators who listened to that interview went away and wrote up their opinions about it on their own blocks. Nowadays it’s just social medias. You gotta social networks and do all that kind of thing.

But they gave top marks to, to Michael and to our conversation. So a couple of quotes here. From people who are still around today. Lela Fever, common crafts, he said, I think it’s safe to say that GM is getting it Cluetrain style. This was great to hear from someone at gm. You should really check out the interview and for those listeners of you in the Gen Z arena, you might not have heard of C Cluetrain.

You should pay attention to what that was at the turn of the century. That was huge. The Clue Train Manifesto. Kevin O’Keefe at Lex Blob, he is definitely still around as Kevin, like large law firms. General Motors is learning from its first [00:17:00] blog. He said legal marketing professionals can learn much from GM and their PR blogging efforts.

Philippe Boreman, our friend Philippe in in Belgium and points further south in Northern Africa. He said GM has started to podcast and suddenly you see the topic being discussed everywhere. And Alan Moore Brett here in the uk. I haven’t seen Alan for quite a long time now, but he was pretty prominently active in those days.

He said Gmma being far more expansive in utilizing digital channels to build far more effective communications. With its stakeholders than just a blogging vice chairman. So you’ve got the sign of what others saw and how they felt. This was so important at the time, and I agree. It was pretty important.

So there was that one other one that I wanted to mention, even though it’s in passing, I think because we might have some updates on this, is we were really fortunate to secure, and this was quite a scoop, an interview with Steve Ruble when he was working at. Cooper Katz, a PR firm in New [00:18:00] York.

The prior, before his accelerated rise at Edelman, before he went there and he had a great blog, it was very influential called Microper Persuasion. And longtime listeners will remember that I’m sure I said in the blog posts at the time. These arguably Steve is arguably the most.

Prominent and influential blogger in the PR profession, either side of the Atlantic, and I think he really was Shell, so we had a great chat with him. You asked him and. No, that followed later. This was in March, 2005. The business week article was later than that. You asked him a question about how things are going with the blog and what developments are gonna be with that.

And he said, I’m gonna keep doing what I’m doing blogging like a madman. And what I’m trying to do is really, I wanna shake the tree. I think that PR professionals need to really, get what’s going on here and jump on board. And I think that the three of us and the other 97 of us who currently blog in the PR industry, we need to do a better job of talking to the everyday PR man or [00:19:00] woman and what it means to them.

I. ’cause I think a little bit of what we’re doing now is talking amongst ourselves and talking amongst the people who do get it in social media land, actually in mainstream media land as well as, with the different opportunities we get to talk the press. But I think we need to get everyone on board.

I think we’re still having that conversation, Cheryl, don’t you? Although it’s probably 9,700 PR bloggers now. A thousand even. Yeah, exactly. And there’s a lot more ways in which you can communicate. Now I noticed, by the way, just reminding myself he called it, he mentioned social media in that interview.

That was the first reference I remember hearing about what we now commonly call social media. It’s also worth remembering that Steve Ruble and Joe Jaffe started their podcast was it across the pond? Was that what it was called? Across the Sound? Across the sound shortly after we started ours.

And so did oh, it was Terry F and David Jones started inside PR after listening to FIR. Yep, it’s true. [00:20:00] And another milestone episode I felt was episode 100, a hundredth episode that suggested that we might have longevity with this thing that we started in 2005. The hundredth episode was actually on January the fifth, 2006.

So one year on from our first episode, we published a 100th episode. That’s an average. That works out about just under two a week. That’s about right, isn’t it? Yeah. ’cause we started, it wasn’t long before we went biweekly. You are right. And we, in that episode, we talked about a range of topics.

You using a CV as an RSS fees and a podcast. The World Economic Forum was podcasting and blogging, or had planned to at their upcoming event. What are the CEO’s biggest fears about these new media? Dan York’s report was in there and we had listeners, comments, discussion, upcoming interview with the music and all that.

But the comments. Lots of them. I think we’re gonna talk a bit more about comments in a while, aren’t we? That was the 100th episode. So we, we were quite well established then. We looking at the the show notes we [00:21:00] had a section we called from our US northeast correspondent.

That would be Dan, I would say. We had news briefs as we called them at the time, the snippets of information listener comments, discussion where people sent in audio or wrote text comments in the blog, and we discuss those comments and have a conversation about those comments that took up a big chunk of each episode in the show.

We don’t do that anymore. Things have evolved. Commenting is not a big thing, but we’ll talk about comments later on, I think. So that was the 100th episodes. A huge milestone for us in 2007 was the publication of the podcasting book that we collaborated on. And that was something that emerged from a conversation I had back in 2005.

So two years prior with Yvonne Devita, who was how would you describe Yvonne? A book agent doesn’t quite do it. She was more like an editorial publishing guide, had all the contacts in the publishing industry. [00:22:00] Yeah. She worked with people who were self-publishing and helped them get their book into shape.

We put together we planned this book. You and I had a conversation about it. You, at that time were already a well published author. I think you’d done four books at that time, and this is something you were quite well accustomed to. I wasn’t. I had the junior role in here as the, as.

It wasn’t a 50 50 venture. You did most of the writing, but the book was out. It was the second book. Of worth that focused on podcasting from a business perspective. The first was Todd Cochran’s book that he published in late 2005. I think I’m right. I bought it. I remember when it came out. But our book was modestly called How to Do Everything with Podcasting.

The bus, the focus was very much on business and it came out in June, 2007. That was when it was available in the us from Amazon and other online sellers, as well as normal books sellers, and it was made available on Amazon in the UK and July the first of that year. We had great reaction to it.

Shell, didn’t [00:23:00] we had warm reviews everywhere you looked. It was really heartening to see all of that. At least my point of view as the kind of junior author, if you will. Yeah, we got some good feedback on it. Not everybody agreed with everything that was in it. If you read the reviews on Amazon, there’s one person who thought it should have been better Fax checked.

But I couldn’t find any specifics that he was arguing about. No, I would urge you not to read it now. It is woefully out of date, especially in terms of most of the technology. I think the things that are still accurate have to do with types of microphones and the like, everything else. Yeah. Has changed.

Yeah. I think, I guess only thing I would add is about how to do a business podcast is still valid though. Yeah. A bit like Todd’s book, it’s outta date when you talk about the equipment. Yeah. And even the reasons why you’d want to podcast. And the tools available to you. The services are available to you and how you go about it.

Totally changed. I agree. So that is worth bearing in mind. I would say to anyone, yes, go and read it. If you wanna look back at what things were like back in [00:24:00] those days. I would argue though that nevertheless, in the business sector, there are still some valid insights. That still apply today?

Trouble is how do you separate it out from the stuff that doesn’t apply today? That’s the trick. Don’t rely on this, but it was a milestone for us in 2007, two years later, after that first conversation, we published a book. I think we got some more things to talk about that are a little bit later.

But let’s stay with with that period from 2007 up to about 2015. So seven, seven years or so. And some of the things that we were doing during that time, for instance we used to not. I wouldn’t say regularly, as in every year, two or three times. We did quite comprehensive listener surveys.

And remember at that time we had sponsors Reagan report Reagan Communications with the Prime sponsor. You’ll probably remember the others. Chip Griffin, I think, was was the one who started sponsor. Custom scoop chip, and they would do the media monitoring minute, which I think Jen zing pre what a lot of other podcasts ended up doing, which was having [00:25:00] substantive content from their sponsors rather than a pitch.

And Jen Zing enzyme ended up coming in and doing some of those too. She at the time was, she was great of chips. Yeah. We also had Igloo software and there were some others in there that I. I can’t remember that we had as sponsors, right? So that was the kind of the golden age of sponsors paying money to be associated with our podcast.

Not enough to retire on or even take that cruise we talked about back in those days. Shell, but it was nice and it signified. People had a belief that. This was worth supporting and they’re willing to put some money into it. Oh. Yeah. So of course that was another one. It’s worth before. It’s worth mentioning, again, a thanks to all the sponsors at that time because that was the pinnacle from that point of view.

It was good. And we were able to do some of the things that we were, we planned to do with knowing that we had people like Reagan and others who were supporting us in that regard. It’s probably worth now talking about the [00:26:00] technical challenges you mentioned at the beginning of this episode.

How and how we started and I’ll mention just briefly ’cause I know this is gonna come into Mix Miners, but that was a bit later on. But Skype was instrumental. It wasn’t a challenge. Skype was an enabler for us, wasn’t it? Skype was an enabler and a challenge. We would not have been able to do this if Skype had not been around in the early days.

No, because the cost of an international call and the technical requirements for recording to record and international call at the quality levels that were required even in the earliest days for podcasting. Even on the Daily Source code the first podcast, Adam Curry. That Adam Curry, yeah.

Started as he was developing the podcast catcher, which is more that we’ll talk about in terms of the technology was saying that if it’s not listenable, it doesn’t matter how good your content is, people won’t listen. So we knew that the audio quality had to be, it couldn’t be a phone call and Skype, no was the answer.

The problem was that [00:27:00] you couldn’t record both ends of a Skype call and the idea of a double. Which is where we each record locally. I don’t know why it hadn’t occurred to us, but it hadn’t. But so we came up with this thing involving virtual cables, which was a piece of software that you would install that would allow you to run two instances of Skype simultaneously.

So I would have one running and have that output going to one recording device and the other one running and going to another. Recording device. Initially we were recording on the computer, but that was unreliable at the time. Keep in mind, there was no cloud yet at this point. So we did that for a while and then I would mix them together in, audacity, which was the free audio editing tool that most podcasters were using at the time because nobody wanted to invest in the professional editing software. Podcasting [00:28:00] hadn’t gotten beyond the hobby level at that point. The research I did led me to the mix minus, which allowed me to do this through a single soundboard out to separate recording devices, which worked really well because that way I could use the same audio settings on everything and create a more consistent sounding show.

And now of course, we’re recording on Riverside. There were also times that we were using some other tools that were available out there for some of the stuff that we were doing FIR Live. And I promised I would let you know when the Edelman interview and. The Fred Garcia interview happened, and they both happened on FIR live, not FIR interviews FIR live number 11 15 years ago, 2009 was the one with Richard Edelman.

And the, the one with Helio, Fred Garcia and Jim Golden was the name of that [00:29:00] attorney was number 14 of FIR live on May 26th. And we used a tool for those that was called Blog Talk Radio. And what blog Talk Radio let you do was dial everybody dialed in and had a conversation, like it was a talk radio show.

And that, so they dialed in on, not via Skype or anything, but it was an interface on the web, could use their phone. There was a, an 800 number phone you could give them. I couldn’t remember. That’s cool. And it would show them as waiting and it gave you all the controls that you would have if you were a radio show host.

It was really revolutionary at the time. It’s interesting hearing that, it’s like the hybrid stage from the transition from the analog days of radio. To being digital and indeed now, of course is nothing, is way more advanced now than it ever was back then.

That was that bridge period Skype, as you mentioned. Absolutely. Was. A hu huge disruptor of telecommunications industry globally. I remember when Skype first came out of [00:30:00] 2003, I signed up for it straight away and was using the Skype out feature, which you paid for. It was about the 10th of the cost of doing normal phone calls, so the audio quality wasn’t.

Too bad, but for our point of view, it wasn’t brilliant, but it was better than the phone lines and it was easy. So that was another signal of of where, change was coming from a technological point of view. The challenges that it brought, and I wanna just mention briefly in this. At around that early period was something else that happened that was truly revolutionary, which was apple supporting podcasts in iTunes when they released iTunes 4.9 in June, 2005.

Not long after we started that drove. Immediate interest and awareness in podcasting. And I’m pretty sure we had a ben benefit from that in a very small way because that was aimed mainly at lit by differentiator, let’s call ’em consumer type podcasts that Dawn and Drew show you mentioned. And by the way, I always found them rude.

Not [00:31:00] funny, but that’s ’cause I’m a Brit, not American, I suspect. But I think the the the gates were opened with that, even though now. No, now it’s 15 years on, 20 years on, and it’s 20 years on. It’s taken the market in whole new areas where we hear stories about, the hundreds of thousands of podcast episodes created every week and the millions of podcasts that are out there.

The mind boggles with the numbers. The quality’s improved though, but getting back now to that it’s hard to imagine then what we’re able to do now. The cloud solved a lot of problems. We used Zencaster for a while, although I could never resolve the issue of drift. So our, yeah, two feeds didn’t align and I was having to do a lot of slicing and dicing of Yeah.

A nightmare audio feeds to make them align. And we. Then went to a double lender where we would record locally and you would use a service to send me your file. And that was pretty easy to sync up. I’ve been using Adobe audition for a long time now as opposed to the free audacity. And now we’re on [00:32:00] Riverside fm.

The number of podcast tools that have become available as the size of the podcasting space has grown is. Really impressive. This is everything from hardware, all in one podcasting, hardware tools to software like Riverside. It’s not the only option out there. There are several out there that are available that allow you to do this and factory in the video component.

Since we know that a lot of people listen to their podcast now on YouTube, it’s important to have that video component and we’re able to add that. Now, if you go to the FIR. Channel on YouTube you can watch. Not that there’s anything to see, it’s just two talking heads. But I suspect that most people who find it and listen on YouTube aren’t really watching.

It’s just in the background. Yeah. While they’re doing something else. But yeah, it is important to be there and Riverside is one of the tools that makes that possible. Yeah. Yeah. It is it’s taken the technological development in audio recording in the way we are doing [00:33:00] it right up into the realm of professional radio studios and so forth that do have done this kind of thing for a long time.

It, it had a big impact, I think, on people’s. Willingness to listen to podcasts, where now the expectation is they want the same listening experiences they get when they tune into to DAB radio, for instance, a pristine quality audio. It’s.

They’re accustomed to more and more professional podcasts. Precisely. You look at things like precisely serial, and that’s what they hear. So when they hear something like ours, if it doesn’t measure up in terms of the quality of the audio, yeah, but I’m talking mostly from the listen experience point of view more than anything where back then I.

It was outside the realm, even with kind of, okay, we’ve got tons of money, we could do this, which was never the case. It’s outside the realm of that. Back then, professional quality microphones, the kind of stuff in radio studios. They cost a lot of money. Now I. That cost barrier is gone and both you and I have got equipment and we have purchased equipment over that of recent [00:34:00] years in particular that we couldn’t have probably dreamed of doing back in 2005 or so.

So we’ve got the ability, so I’m in my new garden studio in Somerset, in England. That’s where we moved to in October and built this place. It’s soundproofed. I’ve noticed in recordings I’ve done recently, the quality is. Completely, a hundred percent better than it ever was before with the soundproofing panels.

So decent microphone. The pop filter you can probably see on the video. And other things, the software, Adobe addition that I use as you do. There’s a few other tools I use occasionally, but I always come back to Adobe because it’s so good. And we’re doing this on Riverside, as you say, and that uses a mix of.

Storing the recordings on your hard drive and uploading it in packets as we are going along. So it’s good to have a good internet connection. Most of the times people do have great internet connection, gigabit internet. I had that before we moved. That’s a work in progress still to get it like that in the new place.

It will maybe a [00:35:00] month or so away yet. All those things combine to to provide. A means by which we could pro produce and share content where the quality of the listing experience was really good. And if the content is good, then we’re onto a winner. Now, we don’t hear much from people these days on this.

Maybe we need to ask people directly, so perhaps the time comes into the survey to do. But I think. We are at a point where two decades in, we’ve done we’ve our own experience has been great. The journey’s been fantastic. The challenges and hurdles are all part of the excitements and experience of doing this.

It’s challenging, getting dates in and all that stuff. Sometimes given our time zone difference, which has always been the case. You are in California, I’m in the uk, which is eight hours ahead of you. It was worse when exam.

Yeah twice a year. We’re an hour closer. But but we’ve managed it and it’s, it works out. Okay. I’m just thinking back just a few years. In fact it’s to 20 I. 20. [00:36:00] So the, actually the beginning of 2020 in January, that was the formal start of the COVID-19 pandemic where we did an episode that you put this together.

She and we called it, or I did in my post describing it, maybe the longest single episode of a podcast ever. Two and a half hours this episode. To now that’s a typical episode of. Of this week in Google. And I did just listen to a five and a half hour episode of a podcast. No, that’s, that, that’s a whole different ballgame.

But this week in tech with God, what’s his name? The the John Devore, right? Neil Port. Leo LaPorte, right? This we Tech, yeah. Leo Laport. That’s right. The network. That was the benchmark for long form content. But this one you gathered 17, as we described it, the smartest communicational professionals in the business.

I. For their take on FIR effectively. And let me run off the names here. Christopher Barger contributed. Jeannie Dietrich, chip Griffin, Lee Hopkins. Marshall Kirkpatrick. Sharon McIntosh. Rachel [00:37:00] Miller. Scott Monty Christopher s Penn, Jen Phillips, Eric Schwartzman. Bill Spaniel, David Spark, mark Story, Andrea VAs, Brad Whitworth, and Dan York.

They were all in there. We had Donna Papa Costa, who was a podcaster back in those early days, created our identity, our voice identity, the podcast for communicators in her unique voice, and that was a terrific labeling for us. This is episode under the new naming episode one 1 91 that was published on the 21st of January.

It’s worth a listen to what all these guys have to say. That’s only I. Not long ago, five years ago. And it’s only got better since then, shall I would argue. ’cause we then talked about the we had another kind of note of where we were at back in January of this year. We talked about, two decades of podcasting that was a bit premature. It was in 19 years, but we had something similar. And so we’ve gone that route. That’s [00:38:00] why, one reason why we don’t have any of those testimonials in this episode. ’cause what more is there to say that these guys haven’t that episode though?

January, 2020 is really worth a listen. There’s some very smart comments from all those folks I’ve mentioned, so that was great. So that takes us to today. There’s other things we could talk about too, but there’s so much there. I think, one other thing to mention is we have done, when we have been able to is live recordings together.

When we’ve been at events typically, or. I’ve been over in California, or you’ve been over in the uk The last time we did this, actually face to face shell was when you and Michelle came over and stayed with us in 2022. And we did a, we did an episode in my dining room where we had some difficulties with microphones, but we actually managed it in the ed.

And there’s other examples. There’s a, an infamous one actually of a, when we were at a conference, I think it was in 2006. In in California and there’s some great photos, you and I sitting at a [00:39:00] table and people talking to us in the venue. And it was, we were with headphones on laptops, mixers as well.

The works was there too. You’ve done a couple at conferences and we’ve managed that. We’ve we’ve always been on the leading edge of doing this stuff, haven’t we? We did one where I was speaking, I can’t remember where it was or to whom, but I think it was in or near Boston. And I got everything set up at the conference and brought you in.

And we did an episode in front of everybody. Yeah. And one of the segments was them asking questions and being able to hear you in addition to me. And then that was published as an episode. I’d have to do a little digging to find. That particular episode, but that was that was a technical challenge in those days.

Yeah. And a lot of fun. We’ve also, over the years, had themes that have seeped into many episodes during a. 10, 12 month period. Second, [00:40:00] life was a big one of those. Certainly AI finds its way into every episode now. And by the way, speaking of the technology it should be no surprise to anybody that Riverside fm, that tool that we use for recording has added.

Many AI features that we take advantage of in editing. One of those that I just love is its ability to remove filler words, which is also, by the way, a feature of d script tool that I also use in producing this show. It can also fix the sound. It wasn’t that long ago. I. Neglected to confirm that my good microphone was the one being used to record.

It ended up being the webcam microphone and I, it sounded like I was in a tin can or on a. Landline telephone. And I ran it through magic Sound on Riverside fm and it sounded like I was in a studio talking into an expensive microphone. These technologies are remarkable. Yeah. And they are.

We’ll continue talking about ’em well into the future, I’m [00:41:00] sure. Yeah I agree. I’m sure. It’s funny you mentioned Second Life. That’s a, I’m glad you mentioned that because that was an experiment we did. That was a milestone where we established a presence in Second Life, and we experimented with things that were new at that time, such as being able to.

Pass audio to and fro second life, to outside the virtual world, into the real world. We did a number of episodes in Second Life. We even had a storefront in Second Life, like a place where you could hang out with your virtual avatar and build a community in Second Life. We tried that a bit.

That was a great experiment that we did. I think on that point about. Riverside fm. Yeah, you’re right. These tools are fantastic, what you can now do, and it is something that we’re gonna see a lot more of. So I’m thinking maybe I. Think of the time we’ve got left for this episode. It’s a quick tour over 20 years, and we are linking out to other stuff you might wanna listen to, like that episode with 17 smart professionals in there talking.

Might be worth saying. What’s [00:42:00] next? What’s coming up? Not so much for us, although we might touch on that, is in the industry as a whole everyone’s doing analytics. We’re seeing lots of very interesting. Data being produced and the interpretation of that data to suggest that podcasting, and I’ve been hearing this for years, shell, we have been hearing this for years, that it’s poised to take off.

It’s poised to break into the mainstream in the workplace. I arguably, it’s there, but it’s not mass, but that. That’s okay, because this is not about just getting big numbers. We hear enough about big numbers. We hear there are hundreds of thousands of podcast episodes produced every week. There are millions of podcasts.

Arguably the these are selective choices by people who with content that appeals to niche audiences. That’s one of the beauties. Nevertheless, you also then hear about. Some podcasts that are literally in the realm of broadcast radio in terms of audience reach, the likes of Joe Rogan in America, who’s in the Millions.

There are people making serious money outta [00:43:00] this. Spotify, notably, we’re a niche podcast. We set out the outset to reach professionals in organizational communication around the world with insights on tech developments in communication particularly, and that’s how we’ve continued doing this. Now we do this.

It’s for love, not for money. We don’t have sponsors right now, and we haven’t sought any really. EE even when we did have sponsors we weren’t getting rich. It was covering our costs. Oh, no absolutely. That, that, that was why we weren’t doing it for the kind of enrichment point of view.

It was the joy of doing it and being able to articulate things and engage with like-minded others, but in terms of what’s coming. But our sponsors all came to us too. We never, they did, went out and said, would you like to sponsor our show? You’re absolutely right. They, we’ll have links in the show notes of some of the reports about what’s next for podcasting.

And you can read yourself, there’s a lot of of opinion out there. Some of it is very informed and highly credible. One of my, [00:44:00] what I think is one of the best looks at the future of podcasting is from Riverside itself, Riverside fm, where they talk about nine trends. Coming up in in during this year and well into next year they talk about podcast growth and they segregate or they segment their research into what’s the future look like for individual creators?

What’s it look like for businesses and companies FAQs on the future of podcasting? And I think it is something that our constants I would argue that people talk about. On what is coming next the change that’s coming, they talk about, you mentioned that AI is gonna have a big role. There’s a lot of it already in place and in our experience on Riverside, for instance making podcasts as lives easier, I.

By taking a lot of the heavy lifting out of the of the audio manipulation process. I don’t mean the editing so much, although you could do it for that too. But like you said, taking out the ums and the ahs, for instance optimizing the audio quality, things like that they could speed up [00:45:00] podcasting workflows and applies to.

Every industry. So things like that’s more accessible. Upping expectations through the quality that is good. We use a tool, I discovered this about a year ago, called Crumple Pop. It’s a lovely name, isn’t it? Based in Florida. They produce a suite of tools that do magical things to audio. For instance, you are talking in a room that’s got a lot of echo ’cause there’s no soundproofing or anything.

This tool will eliminate that. No one would. Ever know that you had done this in anything other than the studio. If you are out in the street and there’s a heavy wind blowing and you don’t have a pop filter, or even if you do a wind filter it’ll eliminate all of that and general other things that it could do, some of which are quite technical.

Adobe Audition has tools now in the latest versions that are AI driven. That do things like normalize different audio tracks with literally a couple of clicks before you had to drag little things on the audio waveform and do all that kind of stuff. It’s a lot easier now. And as I said, you are finding that AI is behind much of this.[00:46:00]

Other things that in in Riverside’s predictions they’re talking about content repurposing where AI takes audio and converts it into other formats, such as short form video. And that’s something that we are seeing more and more podcasters doing. We’ve, we are doing it, as you mentioned earlier, she two talking heads and audio as a pod, as a MP four file on YouTube.

Some people like the format. That way it’s not a too heavy lift to do that, to meet that desire. It does mean though that there is further change coming from a technical point of view. We’ve gotta keep on top of that, which we do video. So video’s a big deal for podcasting. I still. Talk about podcasting, meaning audio, although I don’t say audio, podcast.

I say podcasting. And then there’s video podcasting, but that’s just me. They’ll always just podcasting at some point. Voice search optimization is where voice controlled AI assistance, like I. Google, Alexa and Siri that we traditionally used [00:47:00] to will help put your podcast rank highly when a listener searches for yours via their AI assistant.

And we’re already seeing some of the signs of that. And of course the big disruptor in that area is tools like Perplexity, AI and chat, GPT and others who are also jockeying for position to be the preferred search tool. So there’s stuff like this there’s a lot more, and we’ll share the link to their predictions so you can read it.

Private podcasting meaning it’s offering loyal community paying subscribers. We don’t do paying, but I can see that being a big deal. For many short form content. We do some of that. We always struggle on keeping the episodes short and people still talk about, Hey, can’t you cut your 90 minutes down is too long, and you get a bit tired of saying, hit the pause button and listen to the other bit tomorrow, you.

Some people like the long form. I certainly do. So it’s great. So there’s lots of interesting things tips to stay ahead. They point these out, stay on top of the latest, pay [00:48:00] attention to what’s going on record high quality content. We aim to do that, and I think we deliver on that because our quality is quite good.

There’s a lot more to look at and I wonder. Here we are in the beginning of 20, 25, 20 years since our first episode, what the next five years will look like. And I’m not looking 10 years because I think it’s gonna be entirely different. Two indicators of where we’re headed with this, I think first of all, is that you’re now seeing news reports that quote people who said something in a podcast.

Yeah. This could be anything from a report in People magazine about a celebrity trashing a colleague to a. Politician making some revelation that gets reported because they were talking no names mentioned, right in the friendly confines of a podcast that was hosted by somebody who was on the same side of the political fence as them.

So podcasting is now where news is broken. Used to be Twitter now it seems to be podcasts. The other thing. [00:49:00] That I think it’s important to recognize, and I referenced it earlier, is that while in the 2024 presidential campaign here in the us Kamala Harris’ campaign spent over a billion dollars on traditional media.

They spent far less in the Trump campaign, but he appeared on podcasts that appealed to the bro community, Uhhuh, and they turned out. For him. So I think in the post-election analysis, a lot of people had said podcasting is one of those places where politicians are going to have to. Invest time and perhaps even some money down the road because that’s where influence is wielded.

So it’s taken a long time for podcasting to get there. It was a lot of years that people said this is always going to be a hobbyist thing. It’s never gonna go mainstream. And that’s gone mainstream. And partly that’s because of the shift. Technologically from needing pod catching software which Adam Curry developed.

And he had to be fairly [00:50:00] technical savvy to use these things to now just using an app on your phone to get the podcast you want, and listening in your car when it’s. Connected to your car’s entertainment system. Discoverability has changed. It used to be a nightmare. Apple changed some of that.

And now the podcast apps have discoverability features and even algorithms that recommend podcasts to you based on your current listening habits. I think this is all going to continue to accelerate. The momentum continues to build and I think the influence available in podcasting is going to continue to increase.

I also think it’s going to be a space that makes room for everybody. You could be the Joe Rogan with. 40 million listeners, you could be us with, a thousand or so reaching out to the PR community that’s actually interested in staying up on the intersection of communication and technology.

But I don’t [00:51:00] see an end in sight for podcasting. I just see more growth and expansion. Yeah. And influence. I’m with you on that. Indeed. I’m with you on that. Indeed, much of what I’m seeing, people reporting on what they think is coming next is aligned with that sentiment. So exciting times ahead if you’re a podcaster.

If you are not yet a podcaster, think about it. Exciting times ahead await you if you decide to go this route, but like you said, she. We started in the days where you needed a computer and that’s really the only way you could do this. If you are in a generation, a lot younger than we are, you are accustomed li most likely to a mobile device.

Talk, tap, publish. That’s it. No fancy time spent on, on editing and audio and all that kind of business. It’s all, instant. That said I see I listen to a number of podcasts on in the car that are produced that way, that are long form content, 45 minutes plus. And I listen with one ear on what am I hearing quality wise.

I’m wondering how they produce this. [00:52:00] It’s all really remarkable where things have come since those early days. For us, though, we’re available on any device no matter what. And hopefully your listening experience will be great. However you get your f. It has been a lot of fun looking back over the last 20 years.

The next episode will launch our next 20 years. No idea what we’ll be talking about, but it will undoubtedly be next week, and that’ll be a 30 for this episode of four immediate release. Happy anniversary, Neville. Thank you. She likewise.

The post FIR #443: From RSS to ChatGPT — FIR’s 20-Year Tech Communications Chronicle appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Astroturfing, smear campaigns, social media manipulation, unauthorized release of private information, defamation, character assassination, whisper campaigns, media planting, and gaslighting.

These activities are undertaken by the seamiest, most ethically challenged public relations practitioners. While there are far more PR professionals who abide by ethical codes, the bad actors get all the attention, leading to a sordid reputation for the industry that some believe we will never be able to overcome.

The latest example comes from the agency representing actor/producer/director Justin Baldoni, who responded to accusations of inappropriate behavior by engaging an agency that employed all of the tactics listed above. Initially, the campaign had the desired effect but ultimately backfired as the campaign itself drew more attention than the original allegations.

In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel examine the controversy and address the idea of requiring licensing or certification of all PR practitioners and whether it would weed out those who find codes of ethics to be mere inconveniences to be ignored.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 27.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Links from this episode:

• Blake Lively’s claims against Justin Baldoni put spotlight on ‘hostile’ Hollywood tactics
• New York Times’s TikTok report
• Robert Pickard on LinkedIn: ‘We Can Bury Anyone’: Inside a Hollywood Smear Machine
• Blake Lively Accuses Justin Baldoni of Sexual Harassment
• Why Justin Baldoni’s War Against Blake Lively Worked So Well
• Justin Baldoni’s Crisis PR Has Links To Other Controversial Celebrities
• I’ve Seen Celebrity P.R. Tactics at Work. Blake Lively Is Not Alone. (New York Times)
• What Is Astroturfing? Experts Break Down the PR Tactic Used in Alleged Smear Campaign Against Blake Lively

Raw Transcript:

Hi everybody, and welcome to episode number 442 of four immediate release. I’m Shel Holtz. And I’m Neville Hobson. And we are recording this the day after Christmas Day. And this topic is very timely news wise. It’s in the news, but it has depth of distinct interest to communicators. And this is the huge kerfuffle surrounding the actors, Blake Lively and Justin Bald, and the aftermath of the work they did on the film.

It ends with us. It’s become a flashpoint for ethical discussion in the PR and entertainment industries. The incident as covered by many, the B-B-C-C-E-O today, New York Times that I’ve seen today, in fact and many others, showcases a disturbing confluence of workplace misconduct allegations and aggressive reputation management strategies.

With continuing allegations over egregious behaviors by PR pros and agencies, what are the [00:01:00] impacts for practitioners and the profession? We’ll address this question right after this.

The conflict began during the production of It Ends with us where Blake Lively accused Baldon and producer Jamie Heath of boundary violations and inappropriate behavior, prompting the studio Wayfarer to implement safeguards such as hiring an intimacy coordinator. Despite these measures, tensions persisted particularly over creative control.

Lively ultimately won significant input into the film’s final cut and received a producer credit as the film approached its release. Private messages revealed a coordinated effort by Baldon and his crisis PR team, led by Melissa Nathan to damage Lively’s reputation. I. The campaign allegedly involved amplifying negative narratives about Lively online while suppressing stories of b’s.

Alleged misconduct techniques included fostering untraceable social media narratives, leveraging media connections to plant damaging stories, and utilizing [00:02:00] tactics reminiscent of campaigns seen in other high profile cases like that of Johnny Depp and Amber Hurt. Documents disclose that Baldon and his team sought to portray lively as difficult to work with and opportunistic, aiming to shift public focus from his actions to her perceived shortcomings.

This strategy significantly impacted Lively’s career and personal brand resulting in a decline in her haircare product, sales and public backlash against her. The PR tactics used in this case highlight the ethical quandaries surrounding the industry’s role in reputation management. The notion that PR professionals could systematically attempt to bury an individual raises questions about the need for stricter professional standards such as licensing or accreditation for PR practitioners.

Something Shel and I have discussed many times in this podcast. B’S public image has remained relatively intact despite the revelations. While Lively has suffered reputational damage. Critics argue this outcome [00:03:00] underscores the pervasive double standards in how society evaluates men and women in public controversies.

Allegations of harassment and subsequent retaliation illustrate persistent issues within Hollywood’s power dynamics. The case exemplifies how crisis management can ve into ethically dubious territory. Real world consequences for individuals and public discourse. It also strengthens the argument for introducing licensing requirements for PR practitioners to enforce ethical standards and accountability.

A number of PR practitioners have weighed in on this, especially on LinkedIn. Many are highly critical of the alleged egregious behavior and actions of some PR practitioners. But before we look at what others have to say, she, what’s your take on the PR issues arising from all of this? It leads me to re reiterate my belief that we do need licensing or a requirement for certification for people to work in this industry because there are no repercussions to the agency that [00:04:00] engaged in this behavior and this behavior is beyond the pale.

I mean if you look at the codes of ethics of any. Association out there that represents people in the communications industry. P-R-S-A-I-A-B-C-C-P-R-S-C-I-P-R, they have violated several of these truth and accuracy. Uh, is one. They engaged in defamation and they spread falsehoods.

The core of her lawsuit is the accusation. That his team spread these false and damaging stories about her, and that violates code of ethics, which does emphasize. Honesty and accuracy in communications. They misused influence his position. And I think this has come out more strongly since this story has gained the legs that it has.

He has been a prominent advocate for women’s rights. They he’s misusing his influence there to a attack. A woman potentially harm a colleague [00:05:00] is a. Breach of trust. There’s a lack of transparency involved here, which is another PR principle of, fostering open and honest communication.

The smear campaign was conducted covertly. She didn’t know about it. She didn’t have the opportunity to respond to any of these accusations. The harassment and the smear campaign. This is potential abuse of power dynamics in the entertainment industry where I’m really glad that I don’t work.

Uhhuh I should note that my father was in the entertainment industry and I I was exposed to it a lot growing up and determined early on that I really didn’t want anything to do with it. But PR professionals do have a responsibility to ensure that their actions don’t. Enable this kind of abuse.

And I think the thing that disturbs me the most is that there are ways that a PR agency could have taken on this account and handled it well. By prioritizing truth and accuracy, I. I [00:06:00] absolutely advise against defaming the person that is on the other side of this argument facilitating open communication, upholding professional standards, all could have been brought to bear in a strategy.

I. That would have worked. Th this is the easy way out for Balone. And, frankly I think that the people who did this should be ashamed of themselves. I’m sure they’re not, I’m sure they’re very proud of the results of this. Although, to be honest, the more this story grows, the worse it is for bald his reputation.

It was looking pretty good for a while, but the more discussion there is around this, the more it’s backfiring against him because he’s being seen as a guy who hired an agency that did these things. You also, because this has gotten so public, have a lot of people coming to Blake Lively’s defense, including Colleen Hoover.

Who wrote the book that the movie was based on, I don’t know if she wrote the screenplay or was heavily involved in the film, but when you have all of these [00:07:00] people publicly standing behind Lively it’s not going to stand well for Balone. So ultimately, I don’t think this worked out for ’em, but only because it got the amount of attention it did.

This PR agency takes on work like this all the time. I don’t know. If there have been previous instances where they have taken the same approaches and it just hasn’t, gotten the kind of exposure that this assignment did. But in, in a world in which they had to be certified in order to do this kind of work the certifying agency or the licensing agency would be able to revoke it because of the violation of ethics, and they wouldn’t be able to do this work anymore.

That doesn’t happen, as I’ve said a million times. Anyone can hang out a shingle that says public relations on it, and take on clients and behave any way they want. And that’s what happened here. Yeah, it looks that way, doesn’t it? And what’s, what I, what sort of takes me aback a bit too is the strong way in which the agency [00:08:00] defends what they’re doing is just doing their job.

I saw just before we started recording this, an article in. People magazine that was in my feed that I’m following for this, I thought, oh, someone’s mentioning astroturfing finally has it come back again? I don’t think it ever went away. No. In fact, there’s a, the text in the narrative, which I thought was absolutely to the point.

It says, at the core of live’s allegations is astroturfing a strategy designed to manipulate public opinion by creating the illusion of grassroots support. Or backlash. The complaint claims that Baldoni Crisis PR firm, the agency group, let’s tag. T-A-G-P-R coordinated social media efforts to portray her as controlling and difficult during the film’s production.

And it, it notes a paragraph later emphasizing that they were simply doing their job because everyone does this. I think there’s absolute bollocks to use a technical term we have over here in the uk. I can’t believe that for a second. But there are many who do though. And thing I, I wanna point, I wanna mention, just [00:09:00] share really some of the conversation that’s been going on LinkedIn in particular.

Bob Pickard, who’s the name I think you are familiar with Shel. Oh, sure. He wrote just for Christmas, I felt nauseous reading this article. We can bury anyone inside a Hollywood smear machine in the New York Times and that is a really good article I have to say on this kerfuffle, no proper professional communicator with even a similar crim of ethics could ever debase themselves using such gutter tactics of character assassination.

No genuine crisis, public relations expert, quote unquote, could conceive of writing down such slimy nonsense or so lacking in judgment. As we can bury anyone. All too often celebrity publicity does not equal communications professionalism. And there are quite a number of comments to to that post that he made.

There’s also some, another one I want to reference too, which is in the House of Marketing and PR communications group on Facebook. That was posted again just for Christmas Day by Helen Reynolds. And she has an [00:10:00] interesting take here. She starts by saying popular, unpopular possibly a popular unpopular opinion.

I work in comms, not pr, it’s an old debate, but this story about Melissa, Nathan, that’s the the PR person mentioned earlier, has made me embarrassed. I. The popular idea is and always has been, that smearing people and coverups are the job. I don’t want to be associated with pr. She says, ironically, PR as a profession has the worst reputation.

The term is permanently tainted. She says, and she had responses from a number of people who say hang on a minute. You’re tying the whole profession like this. The whole profession’s not like this. That’s I guess, a point of all of this because it is highlighting what negatives in the profession of which.

That’s what’s getting the attention, not the good the profession does. So this debate, no doubt on this angle in particular the professionalism or lack of certain people who work in the PR industry is highlighting this whole point about, wait a minute if this was some kind of. Like doctors, like lawyers and so [00:11:00] forth, where you are ju you are in a sense, judged by others before you get a license.

You have to apply and be verified and all that kind of stuff. You wouldn’t have this you, I think that’s probably a little naive saying you wouldn’t have this you would still, but you’d be able to do something about it if you do. We’ve talked about this lots of times before. Your view is strong on this.

I know. I don’t disagree with you either. I don’t believe this is gonna happen. I hate to say it like that. No this might get lots of debate going such as what we are having in this podcast. What I’m seeing people writing on social networks like LinkedIn, will anything actually happen. It, as Helen mentions, popular, unpopular, or possibly popular un god, a mouthful to get tongue twist, to get you word.

Popular. Popular, possibly unpopular opinion. Because it’s clearly isn’t something front of mind to many in our, in this profession. I, I don’t see a kind of groundswell of people demanding, something must be done about this. I don’t see any of that. I don’t see the professional bodies commenting on this publicly [00:12:00] at all.

So clearly this is not, embarrassing enough to force action. So what’s to be done, do you think? I don’t know what other PR agencies would do if their billings are fine. And as we reported recently talking about the Edelman layoffs and trauma at other agencies billings aren’t fine right now.

So maybe this is the time for some self-reflection in the industry. But I think. One, one of the challenges that you face with the reputation of PR as an industry is that because you have people like this and agencies like this engaging in behaviors like this and that’s what gets the attention and how much attention does it get in the public media when a PR agency has a successful engagement that.

Was done completely ethically that ticked all of the boxes on codes of ethics it never gets talked about. So what does that lead to? It leads to [00:13:00] portrayals of public relations, people in the movies and TV and novels as being more like this individual than the people that you, and I know Bob Picard for example.

Who, who do. Engage in their practice based on a solid foundation of ethics. I, as you mentioned, the problem is that there are no consequences. There’s nothing that’s gonna happen to her. I. She’s looking at all this bad press right now over this, but how many celebrities are looking at this and say, yeah, she’s the one I want in my corner.

Something bad happens. I imagine she’s gonna do rather well as a result of this, sadly. But, by the way I should note my view that licensing or a mandatory certification should be. A requirement is 180 degrees from where I used to be on this issue. When I heard people talk about it, my argument was no, because if you look at the professions that do require this, the [00:14:00] law, accounting, medicine.

Things like that, there’s one right way to do things and in public relations there’s a tremendous amount of creativity and a tremendous amount of flexibility. There’s dozens of ways, hundreds of ways that you could approach any assignment that, that you get in a PR agency. And how do regulate that?

And I have come around based purely on ethics. We’re not going to say there’s one way to do. Something, but there are clearly ethical and unethical ways of doing it, and that’s what the licensing or certification bodies would be looking at in a world where it was required when a complaint was filed that this violated ethics.

We’ll look at it, we’ll investigate and we will determine what the consequences should be. Should it be reprimand should it be. A revocation of the license or the certification. These bodies would have to come up with the committees or groups that would make these assessments.

But I [00:15:00] don’t see it happening anytime soon because I don’t see the motivation out there to do this. And of course it’s not the PR industry that would do this. It would be the business community. It’s not the lawyers who say you have to have. A-A-A-A-A-A license to practice law.

It’s the state in the United States, it’s California. You have to have pass the California bar. So at some level it would have to be a governmental body some kind of a public institution that would need to make the determination that this has gone far enough and we need to start licensing or certifying these people.

Yeah. It’s a, it is a tricky one. I can see that quite clearly. It’s. It’s sad. I think I was thinking when I was thinking about this today organizations many have codes of ethics that they publish. I’m talking about in the profession, not just general businesses, but although some do but mostly you’ll see this in advertising, in pr of course in marketing, where people publicly state, we follow this code of ethics [00:16:00] practice.

I wonder I’ve not none come to mind that I that they quite outstanding and all encompassing and embrace this kind of topic that this is not how we conduct ourselves here. The easy thing perhaps would be to say if you’re a member of a personal body, they have a code of ethics, it’s new, have a code of knew how to publicly support that and.

Many people do that wouldn’t be, none of that is enough. So you are right. It’s not the professional associations, it’s the clients, let’s say who, who might need. But there’s, there is no motivation. I. Yeah, and I think there’s an opportunity for education that you wanna look for an organization with individuals who have the certification from a credible organization like the Global Communication Certification Council.

But one, one other point just to make you brought it up with that people article talking about astroturfing. Yeah. I don’t know why anybody would think it had ever gone away. Astroturfing originally was really difficult to pull off. What you had to have was a network of people [00:17:00] that you could send.

A letter to, and then they would rewrite that letter and sign it and send it to their local newspaper to appear in the letters to the editor. So essentially, you had the same letter in hundreds of local newspapers showing a groundswell of public grassroots support for whatever the issue was in the digital world.

With influencers and social media, it has gotten a lot easier. So there’s more astroturfing, not less taking place today. We see it, although I don’t see people calling it astroturfing so much, but it is what it is. Yeah. I remember in, in, in the current climate IE digital since the turn of the century, I first came across that term in the, you’ll remember this Shel in the early days of blogging global PR week.

Version 1.0 of course that had a lot of people who we know who are still active discussing this whole thing. And I’ve seen others discussion since then, but nothing really, there’s no needless have been moved other than it gets into public [00:18:00] consciousness. Maybe someone might hear what we are talking about and think, okay, let me.

Amplifi this topic that I think would be a good idea if we said to people, look, if you hear this and you are broad agreement with the topic we’re discussing here, please talk about it. Please amplify it to others. Maybe that way someone’s gonna take notice. So don’t write to your member of Parliament and that kind of stuff.

Just talk about it on your networks and raise it with your communities and see what people have to say and will that make a difference. I put my cynicism aside, but only in the sense that, don’t have your expectations set too high, but if enough people start talking about this, it might get subtraction at some point.

Yeah. My expectations are not set very high and that’ll be a 30 for this episode of four immediate release.

The post FIR #442: Justin Baldoni’s Attack on Blake Lively Explains Why PR is a Dirty Word appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

View Details

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the findings from the SAGA quarterly survey of small agency owners. They cover insights on optimism in business outlook despite recent challenges, with a focus on talent-related issues such as compensation, retention, and recruiting.

They delve into some surprising statistics, such as one in five agency owners not paying themselves regularly and over 30% having reduced headcount in the past year.

The conversation highlights the importance of agency owners paying themselves a fair salary, balancing employee compensation, and maintaining efficient business practices without overworking staff.

They also discuss the significance of flexible work arrangements and employee benefits in improving retention. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 255: What the Q4 SAGA Survey tells us about agency talent appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

View Details

The world’s biggest PR agency laid off five percent of its global staff. It’s a sign of the headwinds facing the industry, including reduced opportunities for earned media, which is what PR agencies spend a lot of their time trying to achieve. We’ll explore what’s happening in the PR agency world in the long-form FIR episode for December 2024. Also in this episode, an update on the social media landscape, with Reddit surpassing X (formerly Twitter) in the U.K.; a look at some of the key findings in “AI Activated,” the latest relevance report from the USC Annenberg School; there’s a waiting list for an app that’s being called a feed reader for the fediverse; communicators are gearing up for challenges that face them as Donald Trump prepares to return to the U.S. presidency; and there’s new information about how businesses are adapting to Artificial Intelligence. In his Tech Report, Dan York, recounts his trip to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, for the United Nations’ internet governance body’s meeting; he also shares his thoughts on efforts to protect children from social media’s harms.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 27.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Links from this episode:

• Reddit launches AI-powered Reddit Answers to upgrade platform search
• Bluesky promises to shake up social media. It might finally succeed.
• From Fox News to NBC, Legacy Media Wants In on TikTok
• Bluesky Is Different From X. For Now.
• USC Annenberg Relevance Report
• Navigating AI’s Impact On Marketing: Lessons From USC’s 2025 Relevance Report
• USC’s Relevance Report 2025: What It Means For The PR Industry
• The 2025 Relevance Report: AI Activated
• Edelman Staff Cuts Reflect Industry at a Crossroads
• Edelman Lays Off 330 As It “Simplifies” Structure For Greater Integration
• Edelman layoffs: MD Lisa Kovitz and other long-time execs among those affected
• The 7 biggest PR challenges for 2024 and beyond
• Vox Media Announces Layoffs, Lifestyle Properties To Face Restructuring
• No More Stalled Promotions, RIFs: Be Your Own PR Firm
• Announcing Surf, The First Browser for The Open Social Web
• About Surf Social
• Flipboard’s new app is a discovery engine for the decentralized web
• Flipboard’s Surf app is a big new idea about the future of social
• Flipboard just launched Surf, which is sort of like an RSS feed for the open social web
• The Trump to-do list: How communicators are getting ready for the MAGA takeover
• PR Pros Remain Mostly Calm Amid Uncertainty Over Trump Agenda
• Rollbacks and Repeals: How a New Administration Effectuates Policy Changes
• “The bar for engagement has been raised:” Execs on their hopes and fears for a second Trump term

Raw transcript:

Hi everybody and welcome to episode number 441 of four immediate release. This is our long form episode for December, 2024. I’m Shell Holtz in Concord, California. And I’m Neville Hobson in Kru and Somerset in England. It’s the week before Christmas as we are recording this, and in a few days time, it will be Christmas for those of you who celebrate like me no snow here and no white Christmas expected here in the uk talking to friends in in Colorado the other day that they’ve not got snow where they are, but it should have some.

So if you’re celebrating Christmas and expecting a white one, the UK in the south certainly is not the place to be. Nevertheless don’t count on it in San Francisco either. No, don’t count on it there either. So today is actually as we’re recording this, which is on Saturday the 21st, December, it’s the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere, the shortest day of the year.

And here in the uk we were lucky to see eight hours of sunlight today. The good news in the [00:01:00] south of England, less the further north you go. The good news, though, is that from now on the daylight time grows more every day as we get closer to the summer. That was actually a crossword clue this morning in the New York Times, is that the days starting today will be what from now on and the answer was longer, right?

That’s correct, yes. So it’s great. So to our show today, we’ve got some great stuff to talk about. But first let’s do a quick rundown to remind you of what we have covered in between these monthlies. What have we talked about since the monthly episode for November, which was three episodes ago. Or four, counting that one.

And we’ve done three basically since then. Now we’re doing this monthly. So episode 4 38 which we published in early, the early beginning of December. That was about Google’s AI overviews, which many are saying are turning upside down. Search engine optimization or SEO. [00:02:00] So we looked at the data, we took a look at the data and the trends, and had a good chat about that.

And recommend, we recommended some actions communicators can take to ensure that web properties still get attention as the shift to AI search continues. And that’s really what’s behind all of this, the shift to AI search. There’s that AI again. Pay attention. You’re gonna hear that a lot in this episode.

We’ve got a handful of comments to this one. Didn’t we show? We did starting with Shashi Beam Kanda an old friend of ours and of the show, he’s currently the principal research director for the Infotech Research Group, and he said, thanks for sharing, speaking with our members and trends that are surfacing first a reduction in organic traffic with the same level of conversions, which to me indicates the traffic is highly targeted even though there may be zero clicks due to AI overviews.

And then LLM traffic has started appearing as referring [00:03:00] sources. Though not much, I think only desktop traffic from LLMs will show in the analytics for now. So that’s what Shashi had to say. Heidi Sullivan who I met when she was at Cision said, great FIR episode. Lots of great and practical suggestions to get into AI overviews as organic search result Traffics.

Traffic declines, but we’ve all got lots of work to do. And Amy Santoro communicator, I know through IABC said Agree. I always double check AI research. Smart Amy. Smart. Good. That’s great. Feedback there. Episode 4 39 we published in mid-December that was talking about the top digital trends or digital marketing trends for 2025, and we focused really on agent AI in that episode.

That was the top trend that the report we cited. Highlight it. So we took a stroll into agen ai, which just a couple weeks ago was a [00:04:00] relatively new term in the mainstream. Suddenly everyone’s talking about it. And indeed, I’ve seen reports at around that time saying, oh, this is gonna be the word for 2025.

I’m pretty sure it’s likely to be Italy hyped like crazy. You can be sure of it and everyone will use it, not knowing, it’s not a made up word. I’ve heard some people saying this is a manufactured word. No, it’s not. It’s been around a long time. Look it up. It’s the dictionary. Find something. Yeah, it is signifying there’s something that acts as an agent for something or someone else.

It’s pretty straightforward, so you get a sense of what it’s about. But we looked at it and considered some of the possibilities for communicators along with the five other digital marketing trends from that report. So that was a pretty interesting episode. And then episode four 40 which we published just a few days ago during the past week.

Where we talked about influence and indeed experimenting for influence what some organizations are doing to enable their ex experimentation and what many more aren’t that ought to be as we discussed in our conversation. So [00:05:00] we reviewed some research on the subject and discussed ways, communicate this can apply experimentation to their work.

And that’s a topic I have a feeling we’ll be talking more about during 2025. So that’s where we’re at since the last episode. We have also just published the most recent episode of Circle of Fellows. This is the monthly panel discussion among usually four fellows of the International Association of Business Communicators.

I usually moderate it and I moderated this one, which featured Neil Griffiths and Russell Grossman from the uk, Martha Mka from Canada, and Jennifer wa from Canada. Hey, I was the only yank in this episode. And the focus of this was how communications as a profession can lead you to bigger leadership roles.

It was a fascinating discussion. A lot of people who have already listened thought it was one of the better episodes that we have done. Really went by fast. So that is up on the FIR [00:06:00] Podcast Network now and available for you to listen to or watch as a YouTube video. The next one is also scheduled for Thursday, January 16th at 4:00 PM Eastern Time, and we’ll be talking about how communicators can spark creativity.

We only have two panelists confirmed at this point, but they’re good ones. Zora Artis and Amy Greenhouse will be joining me for that one and two other August fellows. So should be a fun one to talk about sparking creativity. I suspect AI will come up in that conversation too, since a lot of people are using AI to spark creativity.

To get off that blank screen or ideate with images and the like. So looking forward to that. And we have, as you mentioned earlier, Neville some great stories to report today, and we will get to those on the other side of the break.

A lot of [00:07:00] FIR reports recently have looked at the evolution of the social media ecosystem. We are seeing significant transformations reshaping how individuals and organizations communicate with platforms like Reddit, blue Sky, and TikTok. At the forefront of these changes, they each is introducing unique features and experiencing shifts in user engagement.

And it’s worth noting that with the exception of Reddit, none of those platforms existed 10 years ago. And 10 years ago, nobody was really thinking about Reddit as a contender in the social network space. It was, but that’s not how it was perceived. For communication professionals to make informed decisions for their organizations or clients.

All of these shifts. In the social media landscape is something that we really need to get our minds wrapped around. And it starts with Reddit. Reddit recently surpassed x, formerly Twitter, of course, in popularity within the uk. It’s now the [00:08:00] fifth most visited social media platform on your side of the pond.

Neville. In May, 2024, Reddit attracted 22.9 million UK adults. That’s a 47% increase from the same period in 2023. That’s quite a surge, and it’s partly attributed to enhancements in Google search algorithms, which have improved Reddit’s visibility and accessibility. I’ve noticed this in Google searches.

I’m getting more and more content out of Reddit. But Reddit’s commitment to user-driven content and community engagement resonates with a growing audience. And of course, there are those people who are just looking for that alternative to X. And while many of them are headed to blue sky and some to threads, there’s some headed to Reddit.

To further enhance user experience, though Reddit has just introduced Reddit answers. This is an AI powered conversational interface. They designed it to streamline retrieval of information. The feature allows [00:09:00] users to ask questions and get curated summaries that leverage the platform’s ex extensive knowledge base by integrating advanced AI capabilities.

Reddit aims to simplify navigation and improve content Discovery. Reinforcing is position as a leading platform for community-driven discussions. This use of AI is getting fairly common. There are newspapers like the Washington Post that are introducing similar features. Then there’s Blue Sky, which we’ve covered.

I would have to say exhaustively here on FIR. We’ll have more on Blue Sky later in the show in fact. But for now, let’s just say that Blue Sky has amassed millions of users reflecting a growing interest in decentralized social networking models, which at least so far, Reddit is not after a long period of generally ho hum attitude toward blue Sky.

Now it’s fair to say something’s actually going on there. Even though it may be banned in the US by this time next month, TikTok is increasingly becoming a [00:10:00] primary news source for younger demographics, prompting legacy media organizations to set up a presence on the platform. Fox News, NBC, they’re all producing personality driven content tailored to tiktoks format.

In order to engage this segment of the audience. Notable journalists are creating these spontaneous, unscripted videos that align with the platform’s emphasis on authenticity and relatability. Although TikTok doesn’t yet generate substantial ad revenues for these companies, it is viewed as a strategic investment in cultivating future audiences if it’s still around.

Now, these developments underscore the dynamic nature of the social media landscape. Communication professionals need to consider some strategies in order to account for this continuing. Evolution of the space. First you have to diversify your platform engagement. Look at emerging platforms like Blue Sky and [00:11:00] legacy platforms that you may not have been active on, like Reddit to reach audiences seeking decentralized and user-centric experiences.

You can’t be concentrated in just one or two networks anymore. You need to leverage AI tools like Reddit answers to enhance content discovery and audience interaction and adapt content strategies. You develop authentic personality driven content. For platforms like TikTok or wherever people go after TikTok is banned to effectively engage younger audiences.

It’s also important to stay on top of these shifts if you’re gonna engage with diverse audiences and leverage the opportunities presented by emerging technologies and platforms because this evolution isn’t gonna slow down anytime soon. You are right there. I saw that guardian story too about the surge of Reddit in the uk and it’s it is pretty interesting, isn’t it?

Particularly that growth in just a year, 47% increase. And you [00:12:00] outlined I think some of the reasons perhaps that is driving that growth. We talked about Reddit. A few episodes ago. And my concern about Reddit to companies if one says to an organization, Hey, you should be on Reddit. No, you need to ask why is your audience on Reddit?

Are the people you want to connect with on Reddit? Do your research before you make that kind of choice. But it is true, and I agree with the sentiment of what you outlined she, that you, the days are gone really where you would, and this sounds weird, isn’t it? 20 years ago less actually that 17 or 18 years ago that Twitter appeared and started something that became significant, such as we saw it in the latter part of the 2010s.

So probably about 2015 to 2018 would’ve been the peak of the kind of presence of Twitter as it was then. And that. Drew, as we saw and still see. One of the reasons, perhaps why it’s still [00:13:00] going organizations across the globe using Twitter as a formal communication channel, announcements opinion influential comment in response to others.

You name it, by organizations and the people who are part of those organizations. That is still true today but certainly nowhere near the power it had in those days. So there are alternatives. As we’ve mentioned some of the research we’ve seen, some of the reporting showing generational behavioral differences very marked compared to what they were before.

And the fact that gen Z in particular is wielding quite a big influential role which has grown in the past couple of years, so that’s surged with credibility. The landscape is totally different to what it was in those golden days where you just had a one or two major places that you could use to, to reach the audiences.

So we’re seeing this landscape shifting radically. I think blue skies. The most [00:14:00] interesting one. I’m there as you are from the pre-launch days. I’m there more now than Threads, which was my favorite place. It’s still a good place to be, but it’s not from my point of view. And it reflects what I see others saying to.

It’s not the place for engagement. At all in my view, and I’m not like some who join every conversation and respond constantly to others. I don’t do that. I’m more listening. Yet I find some of the people I’m connected with on, on blue Sky definitely. I seek them out every time I go there now.

Which is a new behavior for me. So I find that great. Yet professionally, I’m all over the place looking and listening at what’s going on. And Reddit I’ve been on Reddit since it started in the early two thousands. But I’m spending more time on Reddit these days in places where I like to be a number of the subreddits to see what’s going on.

I’m in and out more frequently, so that, that’s my contribution to that. So I think blues Sky in particular I was reading one of the other articles you linked to Shall, New York Times Clay Shi piece on [00:15:00] that. So I think it’s quite good what he had to say. And he talks about red blue sky might fail.

Sure it might not. I go with the might not. But it’s still working through how it’s gonna make money. And is it gonna do advertising? I did see some talk last week that some folks had discovered some screenshots that were posted by somebody that showed a subscription model. And where you pay a certain amount of money and you don’t see ads.

That’s, I think that’s more attractive. Way than just doing advertising or across the board. But again, this is all speculation. They’ve not confirmed or denied anything. Still early days, there’s, they’re now 25 million north of that number in terms of users, considering it was four months ago, they’re only 7 million.

So if numbers are important to you, then 25 million from seven is actually interesting. Very interesting. But it is good and it is a mark of what is evolving in this space. Stay tuned. [00:16:00] Yeah. A few thoughts based on what you were saying. I hadn’t heard about the screenshot of a subscription model and.

It’s interesting because I think people would’ve rebelled against that some time ago, but it has become so common in the podcast space that people are now accustomed to hearing about that concept. How many podcasts are there where you can hear the ad free version by subscribing?

NPR has that, the New York Times has that I think Crooked Media, which does Pod Save America and Pod Save the uk. They have it. And, grim and mild, which does lore, they do that. It’s getting really routine. So now I think people are going to hear other platforms adopting that idea, and it’s not gonna seem so, no disruptive or inappropriate.

So that could work in, in, in terms of the use of Reddit. I agree. You have to see if your audience is there, but I’d be willing to bet your audience is there, or at least some of them. There are [00:17:00] so many subreddits that are highly specialized around niches and interests that a quick search is gonna reveal whether there’s anything there for you in terms of reaching the people that you wanna reach.

But the other thing is, they’re still doing Ask me Anythings AMAs on Reddit. And you don’t need to have your audience there to tell everybody if you have the means of getting the word out, that you’re gonna be doing an a MA on Reddit, because people will go they’ll sign up in order to be part of that a MA if they’re interested in what the the leader or thought leader or influencer, whoever it is that you’re putting out there has to say.

I think there’s a lot of opportunity on Reddit. And the other thing is, of course you could tell people that you’re gonna be there and that’s where you’re gonna be hosting real conversations and again, attract people to the platform. And in terms of Twitter.

Government leaders and business leaders in the [00:18:00] like posting. It was also the place, as we have talked about a lot lately, where news tended to break. Yeah. And it’s not that they had the billions of users that, that Facebook for example, does but there were enough journalists following it that when news broke if it was a citizen journalist reporting something, they were on top of it real fast.

And if the journalists were breaking it first of all, they could source information on Twitter and then break the story on Twitter. And then as news continued to unfold, they could embed those tweets. There was no longer the man on the street interview. They were just embedding tweets in the story.

I don’t see anybody embedding tweets from X in the media anymore. So this is another big shift away from X that we’re seeing. Yeah, you’re right. It’s not gained serious momentum yet, although I’m noticing more frequently people talking about this group of journalists in this country have stopped [00:19:00] posting on TWI on X and then now on Blue Sky, there are a number of startup hacks full of journalists for individual publications some geographically based, et cetera.

So you can find this, it’s not yet easily discoverable at all, and it’s not yet by any means gained any momentum in the sense of the ubiquity of X. Share buttons to X everywhere you go on the web, on the worldwide web, you see it everywhere. Everyone has got a website with an article, has got sharing buttons and includes x.

I don’t yet see blue sky anywhere. I started seeing threads here and there, so maybe it is one of those slow burns, but I suspect. Blue Sky’s likely to pick up on that faster. We are seeing things like a developer ecosystem developing with some interesting things going on. There’s one I’m very keen on that I’ve been experimenting with, which is called Auto Blue, which which is a plugin for WordPress that you can use when you publish a blog post.

You schedule it for instance, or publish it manually, whichever that it automatically [00:20:00] shares that to Blue Sky. Threads has had that capability for a while and with threads, by the way, it also then shares it out to the wider fed of us by Mastodon. But Bluesky does it through its. A way it accesses the fedi verse so that connectivity’s there.

So these are all embryonic steps. I’m not sure when we will suddenly see a groundswell, but I suspect we will. And it will require something that does signify a wholesale shift from mainstream media, journalism’s journalists to a platform like this, for it to suddenly become truly in the mainstream.

And that then requires everyone else to put the sharing buttons and all that stuff. So this is not something that’s gonna happen overnight. Maybe towards the end of 2025, we might see something, but during the year it’ll grow. I believe, I don’t think it’s gonna collapse anytime soon. And it is gonna be an interesting year from this point of view.

Sure. And we’re gonna see during this year more of that shift of the media from X over to TikTok. [00:21:00] If tiktoks still around, and I’ve read a number of pieces that are speculating where people will go if TikTok is banned. And we should be clear what’s gonna happen if it’s banned. Is that the the Play Store and the Android?

It’s the Us, yep. And what it’s going to mean is it’ll be banned from the app stores. If you have it on your phone, you’re still gonna be able to access it. Yeah. But then you upgrade your phone and you need to reinstall it. It won’t be there. So it’ll be through attrition that will, there will be fewer and fewer users.

So where do the people creating these videos go? Do they go to reels on Facebook or on Instagram? Does everything shift over to Snapchat? Do they benefit from this? We don’t know. It’s all speculation at this point, but that type of video as. A real place now with that younger generation to the point, as I mentioned that mainstream media outlets are producing content aimed at that.

So that’s another shift to, to keep an eye on. And this is why I [00:22:00] think, we have to be decentralized as communicators. We can’t focus on Yeah, one or two of these. I remember when you said, oh, I’m already on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook. I can’t do, I can’t handle anymore. I don’t have the bandwidth.

You gotta have the bandwidth. You’ve gotta be on all of these now. You do, there are tools that will help you get a sense of what’s happening across all of these. One I’ve been playing with recently is called sil, SILL, that is offering one appealing feature right now, which I’m taking full advantage of, is a daily email telling me the top six stories across Blue Sky in particular that.

My community is paying, is sharing, and I find that actually extremely good service surface is stuff I missed or wouldn’t pay attention to. It needs that to be far more robust and large in, in scale. But it’s a startup. They’ll have a, it’ll be a paid service soon as I understand from their emails recently.

But things like that, we’ve had those sorts of tools for quite a while on the web generally. But [00:23:00] this is different than just having it on a website. This is focused on the new social landscape. And it’s it’s interesting what’s happening. We have some stories to talk about that in, in later on in this show.

Yeah, somebody to pay attention to. Communicators need to be ubiquitous themselves across the social landscape and just understand. Who’s doing what, where, and is this something you need to pay more attention to? You have help. AI can help you with some of these things. There are some generative AI tools that you could, should explore that would help you stay on top of this.

And there, that’s the beauty of AI for you. And keep your eyes on it because there will be more tools coming down the pi. That’s very true. Which is a nice little lead into to this story. I was gonna say, that’s what I call a segue. That’s a segue. Exactly. I mentioned at the beginning that we that you’ll hear AI mentioned a lot, and this is true on, on, on this story certainly and others coming that this is such, so front of mind with what’s going on, that [00:24:00] understanding all of it is almost impossible for anyone.

So we’re offering our little bits on some of these topics. It’s also the time of the year when everyone is doing predictions and trends, reports. There’s so many of them. And we’ve talked about a couple in recent episodes. This topic, this one I’m gonna mention today, I think is definitely worth your attention.

So in December, just a week or so ago the University of Southern California’s Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism published its relevance report for 2025. This is the organization’s annual deep dive into the key Trends impacting public Relations. Each edition focuses on a key theme with the 2025 report titled AI Activated dedicated entirely to the impact of AI and pr, showcasing practical applications, ethical considerations, and future opportunities.

First, though, let’s understand context and perspective with regard to this report. These relevance reports began in 2016 to explore emerging trends and challenges shaping the communication and PR [00:25:00] industry, drawing an insights from leading industry experts, researchers, and academics. The report serve as a guide for communicators, navigating and ever evolving landscape.

Helpful. In other words, Microsoft contributed significantly to the 2025 reports theme, including key essays from Microsoft executives that provide practical insights into AI’s transformative role in PR and communication. Microsoft’s involvement underscores its leadership and integrating AI into communication and its collaboration with academic and professional institutions to shape the future of the industry.

So this report takes a definitive, optimistic view of AI and pr, but doesn’t shrink from pointing out areas of concern. In the forward USA’s, Fred Cook questioned the PR Rdic entity’s appetite for early adoption of new tech, of a new technology. Something we’ve touched on in previous episodes, Cheryl, especially one that could threaten its own existence, happily, he notes his concerns were unfounded.

The report shows that AI adoption has [00:26:00] moved from fear and skepticism to widespread activation within the PR industry, with communicators increasingly using AI to streamline operations, enhance storytelling, and address complex challenges like misinformation and bias. It also emphasizes the need for ethical AI governance and the balance integration of AI and human creativity.

So I’ve pinpointed three significant findings in this report. It’s a big report that covers a huge amount of thinking and certainly not something we can dissect in this episode. So highlighting 16 pages. 116. Yeah, that’s the PDF. Yeah. So first, AI is revolutionizing PR workflows. Tools like generative AI are now integral to content creation, media monitoring and sentiment analysis, significantly improving speed and efficiency.

Custom AI applications such as tailored GPTs allow organizations to deliver precise, compliant, and inclusive communication at scale. Second, [00:27:00] leadership and culture drive AI adoption. AI’s successful integration is often led by senior leaders fostering a culture of experimentation, innovation, and trust employees using AI frequently report feeling more valued, engaged, and empowered.

To take creative risks. And third, ethical and responsible AI is essential. The risks of AI, including misinformation, bias, and polarization require a commitment to transparency, inclusivity, and governance. Organizations must invest in AI literacy, adopt diverse data sets, and develop frameworks for responsible implementation to ensure long-term trust and equity.

The report positions AI as a catalyst for transformation in pr, offering tools to navigate challenges and maximize opportunities in an evolving business landscape. There is much to absorb and learn in this 116 pages, as I mentioned earlier, including in credible calls to action for communicators and organizations, and I do recommend spending time on that.[00:28:00]

It is definitely worthwhile. Some final words from Grant tos, global Chief Digital and Intelligence Officer at PR firm Berson, who in his essay titled AI is an uprising, not an upgrade. Answers two critical questions. First, what would an AI transformed organization look like? It would have fluid adaptive structures.

He says it would offer continuous learning and experimentation. It would be a symbiosis of human creativity and AI capabilities. And his second question, what must we do? We do to stay ahead even as everything changes rapidly around us? Embrace experimentation and calculated risk taking. He says, foster a culture of lifelong learning.

Develop agile decision making processes, cultivate trust between leadership and workforce. Now, all of those things to my ears, sound like we’ve been talking about this sort of stuff for a long time. Pre ai. Fundamental [00:29:00] things don’t really change that much. The ways you go about them perhaps do, but these to my mind, are absolutely critical.

This is about transformation. This is about organizational willingness as a personified by those who lead the organization and the others, including those who make up the organization, which is people, let’s say. Let’s face it. So we’ll have a link in the show notes where you can download a copy of the report for free in exchange for your name and email address.

There’s lots of work to do here. It seems to me she, oh, there’s a ton of work to do here, and I don’t know if it’s just the gloomy weather, but I’ve been growing more and more skeptical about all of this lately. Not the power of AI and the potential of ai, but organizational ability to adapt it. I.

Look at what organizations do in terms of how they manage their business and how they manage their people. And the need for oversight and the need for [00:30:00] governance doesn’t seem to align well with the way a lot of organizations approach their business. So I am not optimistic that you’re going to see a lot of organizations employ that kind of thinking, that kind of analysis and strategizing.

I think you’re gonna see the very large organizations do it, but when you start to get down to mid-size business and small business, I think you’re gonna see people either ignore it, misuse it, underuse it you it’s I think it’s not gonna be pretty for quite a while. And I feel that way about, I.

PR agencies and the PR industry as well. Because as much as I see, Fred Cook saying that he was gratified to see that the early appetite for adoption of AI didn’t create the kind of downside that, that he had anticipated. And as I’m thrilled to see the early adoption of any technology in the PR industry, which tends to be very [00:31:00] late in, in adopting new digital technologies.

They miss boats a lot, don’t they? They’ve missed boats as long as I’ve been in this industry, and that’s been a long time. And it’s very gratifying to see them not miss this boat. But what I think they’ve latched onto the writing capabilities of ai and can’t see much beyond that when again, I think that’s one of the least interesting things.

That this tool can do. And the way that it can help in a public relations agency or a public relations practitioner beyond that are massive. But we as an industry tend not to look past the craft of what we do very often. And so we’re very focused on how can this help us with the craft as opposed to the backends and the analysis and the management of relationships and the other things where there’s potential, especially as a agentic, AI advances.[00:32:00]

Yeah I see tot I get totally where you’re coming from on that shell and until recently I would be with you on that. I remember two years ago reading surveys from my, the likes of PRCA that talked about 25% of people they surveyed would never ever go anywhere near AI at all.

It’s not the future. Guess what it is. I think though that I’m far more optimistic that Sure. I’m, I have skepticisms here and there on the level of how this will work. You are right. I’m sure this is not, so the landscape is exceptionally uneven. This is not like on mass, everyone’s gonna move to, this is not gonna happen at all.

What will happen though is those who are really. Clued into this, who have studied this, who have listed, who have read reports like uscs and all the other documentation out there. Listen to people like Grant Toes and Fred Cook. They are the ones who will benefit from this. And indeed, we have a, an upcoming report where I’m gonna be talking exactly about that with case studies.

[00:33:00] So there is a lot of going good going on broadly, not just in pr, but PR is catalyzing some of the things that are happening and the people are taking advantage of these tools that are there. I feel that reports like this like this USC report and and I’d just given a gloss top level assessment of it, if you will read those 116 pages definitely worthwhile.

It’s. Presented in this Roy Rose tinted, look at all that. There is a lot of, yes. But in there that does give some things worth paying attention to. So it is not even I see that therefore, as opportunities galore for communicators who are clued in to what’s going on, to advise their employers and their clients in, in not in everything, they can’t, they’re communicators.

So broad business strategy is not their their focus. It’s how you communicate that and how you do what tools you’re gonna use to do that. So all working together, and that does require leadership. So you are right in one area. The lethargy, the resistance. [00:34:00] The total skepticism of some will interfere with that.

There’ll be obstacles to, to organizations doing this. But yeah, I just, I see this as a tremendous opportunity for communicators to take a leading role. Yeah. And another reason to pay attention to this report in particular, I think is because it is from the Annenberg School, right? Unlike, there’s a really good report out now from Fleischman Hillard.

There’s been one out, and I think there’s a couple of others from McKinsey. I’m sure Boston Consulting and Accenture and others have released reports. The thing about the USC report is they’re not trying to sell anything. They’re not trying to use this as a, as a lead generation tool. I and I know that Microsoft was a heavy contributor, but they do this trends report every year.

They’ve got a lot of experience with collecting and analyzing this data. So it’s worth listening to what they have to say. From that perspective. I think one of the things that’s going to be needed. Is for organizations at the top to look at the bottom up [00:35:00] use of AI and start to synthesize that.

And I, I’ll tell you what I’m reporting on it where I work, when I find an employee using ai, I’ll interview them and do a short article saying, this person’s using it. Look what they’re doing with it. I just talked to our head of accounting who’s using it for Excel. They have a bunch of Excel spreadsheets that they inherited from an earlier.

Time that were custom done and can’t figure out what the formulas are. So they’re just giving it to AI and saying, what is this formula trying to do? And it deciphers it. Or I’m trying to create a formula that does X, Y, and Z and it’s not working. Take a look. What am I doing wrong? And it tells them, so it’s speeding up their use of Excel which by itself is gonna save a lot of time and be very beneficial to the organization.

So the more those stories get shared, I think the clearer the uses become and people can see beyond their biases [00:36:00] and the limitations they’ve placed on how they think they can take advantage of a chat bot. Yeah, ab totally. Those are the kind of uses that people go, oh, they’ll thinking about, oh, it’s gonna chat GPT, I’ll ask, oh, I prompt it and it tell, tells me the things I can use in a report.

They don’t realize that this is way beyond that. That kind of use. You gave examples of there are loads in this article in an upcoming report later in the show that talks about case studies that I mentioned that gives you a glimpse into this. This goes way beyond the kind of things that you think AI is all about.

Certainly at an enterprise level, a big organizational level, some of the things that are improving workflows are truly quite extraordinary. And you think when you hear about it, you think, of course that’s what AI’s for. That can help you do that. So that’s a great example. The Excel. I can give you a small example on my own account.

Something I do mostly as a hobby, as a personal interest is PHP coding. And [00:37:00] I write codes. I’ve got three books that tell me how to write PHP and it’s a bit like I, I found in my old bookshelf the other day, HTML written, it was published in 2002. Boy was that leading edge at the time. But the book’s this thick and it’s huge.

So anyway I write stuff myself based on my limited experience so far. For instance, things like WordPress plugins, I have a a kind of a a playground site, a sandbox site that I try out stuff with. Usually it crashes everything. But since I started asking my AI for help. Phenomenal. So it’s improved my ability to deliver on that.

It’s increased my learning on how to do it and increased my confidence on saying if I try this, maybe it’ll work. ’cause that’s what I did before and it worked. So these are things you don’t need a company policy to do. What you do need and this is key in my view, curiosity and the willing to experiment.

And that last word we talked about that topic in, I think the last short short form version. The experimentation. It was [00:38:00] either 4 39 or four 40. I can’t remember which one it was. Four 40. That’s yeah. Okay. So that’s key. This report goes big on experimentation. And indeed grant tube’s point about.

What we gotta do to stay ahead, embrace experimentation and calculated risk taking is a key thing there that isn’t, doesn’t come naturally to everyone. That sort of approach. So that’s a leadership thing to encourage that. There We’re talking about then potentially transformation, how you run your organization.

So this is, these are all elements that are connected and we gotta do this though, I think. Let’s temporarily leave the world of AI behind and enter the cold, cruel world of business. Earlier this month, Edelman, the world’s largest PR firm, announced the layoff of 330 employees representing over 5% of its global workforce.

This reduction is the largest in years for Edelman and was part of a strategic restructuring aimed at simplifying its [00:39:00] business model to better align with current client demands. Edelman’s restructuring reflects broader trends in the industry where firms are consolidating and adapting in order to stay relevant.

The recent $13 billion merger between Omnicom and Interpublic Group, creating the world’s largest advertising conglomerate is an example of this shift toward integrated services and technological investment. Edelman’s, CEO. Richard Edelman addressed the A os pretty candidly. He said, I don’t like to do this.

I’ve held off as long as I can. If I were running a public company, this would’ve happened months ago, but I need to run a business. And that’s the job I’m very sympathetic to that point of view. His layoff affected a number of very high level people in the organization, including our friend Steve Ruble.

Most of these folks took to LinkedIn to announce the fact that they were leaving. Now, Richard’s take underscores the financial [00:40:00] pressures even privately held firms face leading to difficult decisions to maintain fiscal health. There were a number of factors that influenced the decision, not the least of which was a revenue decline.

The firm anticipated an 8% decrease in US revenue and 3% globally for this year. If anything signals a need to make operational adjustments, that would do it. The question of course, is why are these revenues declining? We’re gonna get to that. There’s a growing demand for integrated services prompting Edelman to streamline its structure.

They had a bunch of specialty brands that were under Edelman Edel. There was Edible Revere, saludo Mustache, EGA, Delta. These were boutiques and every one of ’em had their own support staff. So Edelman was paying for accounting and it and the like for multiple companies. Now they’re all just gonna be hoovered up into Edelman and allow them to have that interdisciplinary.

Type of an approach to the work [00:41:00] that they do. There’s also been some significant shifts in the media landscape. The reduction in traditional media outlets and widespread newsroom layoffs have limited opportunities for PR professionals to secure earned media placements that challenges traditional PR strategies.

After all, how many people when they think of PR think that it’s media relations and there’s less and less media relations to be done these days. That media contraction is just one of the headwinds the industry is facing. There’s also, of course, the rise of AI and digital platforms that are forcing agencies to adapt by integrating new technologies into their service offerings.

Clients are more and more seeking comprehensive solutions to combine traditional PR with digital marketing, and this requires a more integrated approach. Now, despite these challenges, there are plenty of opportunities for agencies and their employees. Agencies can expand their offerings to include digital strategy, content creation, social [00:42:00] media management, data analytics, all to meet the evolving needs of clients.

They should embrace innovation, leverage AI and other technologies to enhance efficiency, open new avenues for client engagement, embracing technological advancements, particularly AI can streamline operations and provide deeper insights into audience behaviors. And. Improve your campaign effectiveness.

And then we need to focus on owned media. Because of the decline in earned media opportunities, agencies can help clients build and manage their own media channels. It could be blogs, social media platforms come up with some new stuff. If there’s a dearth of local media coverage, maybe that’s a vacuum that you could help fill, but this will maintain direct communication with target audiences.

Now, for PR professionals, this period of transformation offers a chance to develop new skills and expand your expertise [00:43:00] into areas like digital strategy and integrated communications. The client’s demanding versatile communicators. Who can navigate the complexities of mod modern media landscapes that’s rising.

That presents career growth opportunities for those who are willing to adapt. And if you’re an in-house communicator, like me thinking of working with an agency, I’m not, you should clearly define objectives and ensure that the agency’s capabilities align with the organization’s goals, particularly in digital and integrated communications.

Regular communication and setting measurable outcomes can enhance the. The effectiveness of your partnership with a PR agency and if you’re actually thinking of a career in a PR agency, then it’s important to recognize the industry’s dynamic nature. Challenges definitely exist. As I’ve outlined.

Agencies do offer diverse experiences and opportunities to develop a broad set of skills. Prospective professionals should seek agencies [00:44:00] that invest in employee development and embrace innovation. These are the agencies that are most likely to thrive as the industry continues to change. Yeah, that’s quite a picture you’ve painted there.

Shell, it is something I think that I see this in the UK as well. Not, there’re probably similar reasons. Basically you’ve gotta reinvigorate your business, you’ve gotta trim the fats and all the stuff that Richard DA was having to address as a leader of a business that IE is running a business for those affected by layoffs, redundancies as is the word used most frequently here in the uk.

It’s a challenging time without doubt where suddenly you are on the job market along with quite a large number of others with similar experiences and skills as you similar age typically. And therein is another issue, which is that of ageism. I hear people talking about that quite a bit.

That Hey, gray Lives matter. Yeah it’s challenging and some of the advice that common sense advice that you outlined is absolutely [00:45:00] spot on. You need to do this and even though you may not feel like doing it, use your time between now and the new year. You are on a break to update your profile on LinkedIn.

Friends, that’s gonna play a big role for you. Whether you believe that or not, it probably is going to. And all the things that you’ve been saying you haven’t had time to do, now’s the time. You should look at courses on LinkedIn learning. Get up to speed on ai. There’s some terrific content there.

And if you are an ai, if you’re a LinkedIn member on the premium lower, you’re paying for it. That’s part of the deal. Definitely worth it. I’ve been doing that. Not for the same reasons as the as we’re discussing here, though. So get up to speed with things. AI in particular. There’s a great article, one of the stories you shared in the show nutshell from o Dwyer.

This was good. No more stall promotions. RRIFs be your own PR firm. And written by Jane Genova, who’s a kind of a coach for seniors as describes the bio. Great tips here on on what to do. Some of things you can do, leverage your reputation when you’re talking to people. Approach everything as a grand [00:46:00] experiment.

There’s that word again, experiment. That’s what I tend to do anyway. Approach everything as an experiment and so that, that changes your outlook and okay, even in the face of the fact that you’re suddenly let go. And it may not be the financial aspects of that worry you ’cause you’re probably quite cozy if you’re a very senior role.

It’s the sudden lack of the environment that you’ve been accustomed to the kind of authority that it brings you by your role, by virtue of your role. There are still many people in organizations who see. Influence and worthiness as, as explained as, as basically explained by your job title.

And for me, a job title is the least significant thing I recognize others see it as one of the most significant things. So all that’s suddenly gone. So this is the time for that. And I think it’s the nature of things. So a word I hear a lot these days, she, you probably do fractional. I see people calling themselves a fractional CCO, chief Communication Officer.

In fact, Heidi Sullivan, who was one of our commenters who’s listed currently is a [00:47:00] fractional CMO. I find it a dreadful word to describe this, but I recognize that people like it. It also sounds those who say I’m fractional, 16 different roles, you are fractional. Wow. I’m trying to visualize the pie in imperial measure, not metric, how many eights of an inches.

That’s stuff like that. But that’s how it is. And we’re all this is how we use information online to explain our perception of people and where they’re at in their journey, let’s say. It’s a time for constant renewal. It seems to me that you’ve got to be on top of all of these things, particularly at a time when you know, coming up right behind you are those earlier generations who are younger more agile, physically, literally, than you are as you get older.

And you’ve got to be make yourself readily attractive to others from a work point of view. That, that’s an interesting challenge considering one of the things that I keep hearing about the younger generation is that they wanna show up when they wanna show up and they’re gonna sit at their desk on their phones and they just, those damn young whipper snappers [00:48:00] aren’t willing to do the work.

I tell you I’ve worked with people recently who are as clients who are a lot younger than me, and their attitudes, actually I’m more like the younger than them, even in my attitudes to behaviors in the workplace tools that I use. And they do. But it, this is a not a new thing.

This is how it’s always been. I, you’ll remember this. I know you will. Desktop publishing, when that came in, anyone could publish a newsletter, and they did. It’s, and they did exactly. You, I remember when employee communicator had to get their hands around all, every department distributing their own newsletter.

It’s incredible. Greeting Shell and Neville and FR listeners all around the world. It’s Danor coming at you on this last episode of 2024 on a very snowy and cold day in Vermont, having just returned this week from the desert Sands and warmer temperatures of Riyadh Saudi Arabia. I was there for the 19th Internet Governance Forum or IGF organized by the [00:49:00] United Nations and it was a remarkable event.

It brought together people from all across society, from government, from industry, from civil society, from the technical community, from just regular old users, from people of all walks of life and forms who are there to talk about how do we govern the internet in such a way that it can be, what are the future conventions, the norms, the things that we will do?

And it was a remarkable gathering, people talking, and of course, this being 20, 24, people could come in remotely. And so you had speakers from around the world who were there participating and talking about everything. Of course, AI had many sessions because it’s 2024 and we gotta talk about ai.

There were sessions, there were some sessions around the metaverse type of thing. There were lots of sessions around security, around safety, around cybersecurity, around resilience, around connecting the. The next, the remaining two and a half billion people, there [00:50:00] were sections on gender inclusion, on just, all of these things.

Closing a digital divide, the use of the internet, amazing conversations, talks, and everything else. And it was all of us talking about that. Which brings me to my two points this year as we close this time out. This next year, 2025 is gonna be a cha time of a lot of change around the world. Obviously here where I live in the United States, we have a new incoming administration with all the changes and challenges that may bring in different ways, but that’s happening elsewhere.

All across Europe, we’re seeing new governments coming into place and new elections happening just north of me and Canada. There are signs now that there will probably be a new election and new government next, early next year. It’s happening all over the place. Governments are changing, societies are changing in different ways, and one of the things that communicators should pay attention to some degree, [00:51:00] is what’s happening at the UN level.

Next year will be the 20th anniversary of something called the World Summit on the Information Society or WSIs. And that was an event that. Set up a lot of how we are talking about the internet, how we’re governing the internet, how we’re engaging, and what norms and conventions we’re doing. There’s gonna be a lot of work next year to look at review that where we’ve come in 20 years and where we’re going.

Part of that will be what is the future of this event? I just went to the IGF. Will it continue to be an event that goes on? And there are powerful forces that would like to end it. They would like the decisions about our future on the internet to be made only by governments and only by government representatives.

So you and I, the people who are out here in the industry or in the technical community or civil society, we would not get a voice in the future of where so many things go. So it’s important. [00:52:00] WSIs plus 20. You’ll see these acronyms. WSIS plus 20. You’ll see this being thrown around as it all happens, heading up toward meetings in June and July.

And it’s important because this will determine what voices will be part of the future of this at a government level anyway, and this can then cascade down into what we do. We, at the Internet Society where I work, we have a saying about the internet is for everyone. And we add to that now, of course, and everyone must have a voice in its future, so pay attention this year.

The second thing I’ll mention is that we are seeing all around the world a rise in wanting to protect the children, which has always been here. But what’s happening is this movement to impose legislation around age verification or age assurance. I think I mentioned in the last report maybe about Australia, was declaring that anyone under the age of 16 should not have access to social media sites.

Nevermind that they don’t know how they’re gonna do [00:53:00] that. But a number of these laws are happening here in the United States. Many individual states are saying that it’s also happening in other countries places. Everybody is trying to get on this game to say that, people under a certain age should not have access to content in some ways, and I’m a father of two daughters.

I get that. I understand it. I appreciate that. The challenge is how you do it. There aren’t easy ways, and what’s happening in many cases is that people are looking at solutions that will require all of us to provide some kind of id. You might get to the point where if you go to your local Starbucks and you want to get online, you might have to show some kind of ID that says what your age is.

It’s not a joke. There’s actually a law that would’ve created that. But the reason I say this for us as communicators is some of these laws could have extremely punishing fines. Extremely punishing, penalties. So you as a [00:54:00] communicator, you might have a forum for your members. You might have a forum for your community.

You might be engaged in something like that. But with some of these laws, you would have to be sure to gate and be able to know the ages of people being there, or else you might be fined incredibly. So you gotta pay attention. You’ll hear different names, age verification, age assurance, assuring the age.

They’re similar, but those are the words that we’re gonna hear as we go into 20, 25 and beyond, because a lot of the policy makers of the world want to solve this and are trying to put something in place even though the solutions aren’t that great. Let me just end it there and say thank you to all of our FIR listeners.

We are in a time of celebration, whether you celebrate Christmas or Hanukkah or Kwanza or the winter solstice or whatever, this is a time of [00:55:00] celebration, a time of recovery reflection, and a little bit of a pause before the chaos of what will be this next year and more best wishes to you all. Thanks for listening over this past year.

You can find more in my audio in writing@danyork.me and back to you, Shea Neville. Bye for now.

Thanks for that report, Dan. Really good explainer you gave on what you experienced in Riyadh at that UN meeting and the whole situation with regard to how the internet is evolving. I’ve read reports recently one that strikes me a lot about the disappearance of content online as sites go dark or people change web pages or whatever it might be.

And the fact that we’ve also got others who want to control it, and this is not new. You will know that at the Internet Society, the splint internet, there’s things going on. So seeing this kind or hearing you describing these sort of policy areas is really helpful. [00:56:00] Good report. I also enjoyed the discussion around the availability of social media to kids.

I remember seeing a headline the Day Australia passed the Law that banned social media for kids under 16. And it said something like, Australia banned social media for kids under 16. Good luck with that. And I was just hearing, I think it may have been yesterday on the news that, the Australian government has alerted social networking companies to be on the lookout for a mandate to have an age verification method in place that is something more robust than simply clicking a box that says I’m over 16 which of course any 12-year-old can do.

So we’ll see how that goes. At some point it may be easier to just not offer your service in Australia but it’s a genuine concern. We’ve seen Instagram come out with their teen version of Instagram with more controls [00:57:00] and some very warm family oriented TV commercials to promote that.

I, I am impressed by the way, with how much they’re investing in raising awareness of this. Tool how much adoption it’s getting. I haven’t seen, but it’s definitely a concern and it’s nice to see that whether it’s being done well or not. It’s nice to see people trying to address it.

Agree. We got the same here in the UK with the online safety bill, which is chugging along. It’s getting attention in some areas. The regulator is flexing muscles in that area in terms of what it requires of the major social networking companies. So I think we’re gonna see in 2025, the early part, certainly more on these attempts to.

Safeguard children but also to control access. The down the flip side of this, according to all those conspiracy theorists on X anyway, is that this is how you control your citizen’s access to the internet. Yeah. If you were China or somewhere, I’d say that’s [00:58:00] likely to be what you’re doing.

I don’t believe that’s the kind of prime reason the Australian government’s doing this at all, or the UK government, the online safety wheel, but that’s part of the discussion landscape to be Sure. Yeah and I do hope. Governments that are looking at implementing these kinds of restrictions are thoughtful in the approach they take.

I, I, a flat out ban is not a good thing. As I’ve heard a number of people point out. If you’re part, if you’re a, if you’re a child and I’m talking about maybe adolescent aged and you’re part of a marginalized community, if you are L-G-B-T-Q for example having access to that community online can be a lifeline for you.

As opposed to a place where you’re made to feel ugly or inadequate or whatever it might be, that is causing some of the distress along among a lot of youth. In ensuring that the access to those communities is still available to these people is important. A flat out ban could be very harmful to some people.

Yeah. [00:59:00] So let’s talk about surf. Last week, Flipboard maybe you’re familiar to many of you, the online magazine creator aggregator, et cetera, that you can read content on an app very visually. It’s very good. It’s been around a while. We’ve talked about it before with publishers on, on, you can do publish as well as a consumer.

Now we have publishers there individually, but Flipboard has had some success since the advent of the Fedi verse emerged a couple of years back in being one of the leading players that bring this to the forefront in people’s minds and how they use this. Last week they up unveiled surf.

An app that many people are calling a feed reader for the Fedi verse and described by Flipboard itself as the first browser for the open social web designed for Android and iOS Surf seamlessly integrates decentralized platforms like Mastodon Threads and Blue Sky with RSS feeds, podcasts, and even YouTube offering an all in one way to [01:00:00] explore and curate content from across the open web.

Unlike traditional feed readers, surf combines discovery, integration, and personalization into one user-friendly experience making decentralized networks accessible to a broader audience. Fast Company highlights how surf leverages decentralized protocols and open standards to build connections that weren’t feasible before, reflecting a shift towards a more decentralized and open internet.

The Verge notes that surf blurs the lines between feed readers and Fed Verse clients making such distinctions increasingly irrelevant. Meanwhile, TechCrunch calls surf a bold reinvention for Flipboard, moving from curating mainstream media to championing exploration of the open social web. A standout feature of surf is its customization as Sarah per notes in her TechCrunch report.

Surf allows you to build personalized feeds on specific topics, whether it’s AI model development or mounted biking by combining [01:01:00] real-time searches, hashtags, blogs, YouTube channels, podcasts, and more. I’m on the beta wait list and can’t wait to see how surf might redefine how we engage with the decentralized web.

I’m on the wait list too, and I can’t wait to take advantage of this. I remember tools like this from long ago that would curate and aggregate for you and of course feed readers. There is a still a feed reader. Feedly is still functional. There’s quite a few and I still use it.

Yeah I use one, what’s it called? Innovator? I can’t remember now. I haven’t used it for a bit, but I’ve had been a member, I’ve been a user of it for about a decade. There are around, and of course we know much of the content we get. Football being one example is delivered via RSS. No one knows about that.

No one cares about, that’s right. R ss is still, it’s exactly what it is. It’s the plumbing of the internet. It just because Google did away with its Google news reader doesn’t mean that RSS went away. Podcasting wouldn’t be possible without [01:02:00] RSS. What’s what’ll be interesting for me with this will be to see how well it’s adopted because, feed readers.

I am, you and I lived on feed readers back in the salad days for blogging. Feed Demon. Feed Demon, that’s right. And there were others there, there was some early ones. Where you had to download and install them just software for any other application. But I don’t think that, if news readers were that popular, Google’s a news reader would still be around.

I think most people just went and found blogs to read and having this extra step for curating them that required an extra piece of software was too much. Just like starting a blog was too much for most people, which is why when Facebook came along, oh, I don’t have to start a blog. I’ll just post here.

And is it as, as Facebook, as good as blogging? I would argue it’s not for a number of [01:03:00] reasons. But. It accommodated all those people who weren’t interested. So yeah, I think this could be great. If it gets a lot of uptake, it could create a virtuous circle for the Fedi verse as more people adopt this tool, more clients open up for social networks that are part of the fedi verse that leads more people to adopt this and similar tools and round it goes.

We’ll have to see because again I question how many people out there in the, among the great unwashed are gonna be interested in using a tool like this. I will though. Yeah. Oh, me too. I could see a real advantage, but linking to what we talked about in one of our early topics today is for communicators to get a view across the landscape of what’s going on.

This would be helpful to do that where you are able to bring in content from all these different platforms into a single location. Now, I know I’ll hear some of you listening say, yeah, but we’ve been hearing about this kind of thing forever and there’s been apps that [01:04:00] you can do that with. True. This, though, the uniqueness of this is the social web, if you like, let’s call it the Fed averse for the time being.

This is what. Core of it. And it remains to be seen exactly how it’s gonna work, the features that it’s gonna offer other than what some have posted publicly with screenshots on the early alphas of this. The best reporting I have seen actually is Sarah Paris’s writing in Teran explains very clear very well done.

The features of this, but the customization one that’s one that appeals to me a lot because I’d like to have something that brought in content I’m interested in into a single location. And if it’s a mobile app, like this is, there’s a web version coming, they said, by the way, but the moment they just on the mobile app this would be great.

So for that reason, I’m looking forward to it. But communicators pay attention to this. If you are thinking, yes, I should be paying attention to more things, this could well be the thing that helps you most. Save you a lot of time. And Sarah Perez has been at TechCrunch forever. Her reporting has [01:05:00] always been top journalist.

Yep. Yeah. Yep. But we’re only about a month away from Donald Trump, assuming office for his second term. And communicators across various sectors are strategizing right now to navigate. What they’re anticipating is shifts in policy and public sentiment. The second Trump administration is expected to bring changes that are sig going to significantly impact communication strategies.

Communicators are gonna need a proactive and adaptable approach to deal with these changes. The administration is poised to implement substantial policy changes across multiple domains, and we’d be wise to be ready to have. Strategy in place proactively to deal with them. Let’s start with economic and regulatory policies.

A focus on deregulation is anticipated, particularly in energy and finance. And while this may reduce the cost of compliance for businesses, it could also introduce risks related to environmental concerns and [01:06:00] financial stability. If you work in financial services and there’s a lot of deregulation it was deregulation that led to the housing mortgage crisis in 2018.

So be on the lookout for those types of things. Look at the regulations that have been scrubbed away from your industry and do some risk analysis of what that could mean and start thinking in terms of your crisis preparation for those there’s technology and communication. There’s an expected emphasis on regulating online content moderation.

In the us that would mean reforms to Section two 30, which shields internet companies from liability for user-generated content. This could affect how organizations manage their digital communications and engagement strategies. That’s right in our wheelhouse. So we need to be ready to deal with that.

We’re looking at changes to environmental policies. The Trump administration is less concerned about climate [01:07:00] change than the Biden administration, and potential reversals of previous climate initiatives may alter the landscape for corporate sustainability efforts influencing how companies communicate their environmental commitments.

And of course, there’s DEI the Trump administration is wholly sympathetic to the war on DEI, and a lot of organizations are caving to that pressure. Others are just changing what they call it. In light of these anticipated changes, and probably lots of others, communicators should consider a number of strategies, and the first is proactive engagement.

You gotta remember the relations part of public relations. We need to develop a comprehensive understanding of the new administration’s policy agenda and then engage with policymakers and stakeholders early. That’s the only way we’re gonna be able to shape favorable outcomes and mitigate the challenges these things could create.

Adaptive messaging is another thing we should be looking at. Flexibility and communication [01:08:00] strategies are going to be just essential crafting messages that resonate with diverse audiences while aligning with shifting policies. That’s how you’re gonna maintain public trust and organizational credibility.

We also need to be crisis ready. Given the potential for increased scrutiny and politicization of having robust crisis communication plans in place is vital. This includes preparing for scenarios where company policies or statements may attract public or governmental attention, and think about how you’re going to communicate with your employees about all of these things.

Transparent and consistent communication with employees is critical, especially as policy changes may affect workforce dynamics. Keeping staff informed and engaged will foster a co a cohesive organizational response to external developments. Journalists are anticipating a renewed hostility toward their work under the incoming Trump administration.

We’ve already seen a, b, C agree to pay $15 [01:09:00] million to settle a suit with Trump, and he’s filed a new one against the Cleveland Plain dealer and the polling company that showed a poll just before the election with Trump winning in that state. He did not with Trump losing in that state, he actually won.

This could influence media relations strategies. Companies should be prepared for a potential potentially adversarial media environment. Consider building stronger media relationships than you have now. Establishing and maintaining those relationships with journalists can help facilitate more accurate and favorable coverage.

I think it’s more important than ever for your people to be trained as spokespersons. If they’re well prepared to handle challenging questions and convey key messages effectively, that’ll make life easier. And our need to monitor the media landscape is more important than it ever has been. We need to stay informed about changes in media dynamics and public sentiment so that we can adjust our communication messaging and strategies accordingly.[01:10:00]

But we need to be proactive, engaging with stakeholders, adapting our messaging strategies, preparing for crises, and navigating media relations thoughtfully. If we do that, we can guide our organizations through this period. It’s a complicated landscape without any doubt. And of course the major focus of everything you’re saying is in the United States.

Yet this is a global issue. Particularly if you just think of it purely from a business point of view that companies with business all over the world, many companies have operated in multiple countries, and therefore this is important to everyone. In that sense, I’m thinking of, how you would prepare for this when there is so much unknown still.

So you have to work on some assumptions, I would say, but there are some fundamentals you can do. Sure. This man is coming into the White House, that he’s said he’s gonna appoint this person, that person. And most of those appointees that he’s mentioned have attracted i, horror from normal people.

Let’s say particularly when you have someone like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Who’s gonna [01:11:00] be in charge of what vaccines, at least anyway. Everything health related. He is. If he’s confirmed, he’ll be the Secretary of Health, human Health and Human Services. Yeah, I was reading an article by Paul Holmes in Provoke Media talking about this in relation to healthcare generally, and big pharma in particular, that got me thinking about this very thing.

How do you prepare for this when you truly do not know what policies are gonna be in place and the direction of travel, if you will. So it makes it tricky. But you’ve got a plan no matter what, and it could well be, you can have this happens then we do this, or if we do this to make that happen, we will do it this way or whatever.

So it’s, it is in a sense, I suppose crisis, communication, planning in one sense, looking at it that way. But this affects everything and everybody, it seems to me we don’t know what’s gonna happen. We do know in some areas that we are not gonna what happened again, lot does depend on your political perspective, I think.

So if you are a maga you’re gonna love what’s coming, I suspect, hopefully, [01:12:00] hopefully reason will win the day. But what we’ve seen with this shutdown I suspect not. So the US is very unique. It seems to me, in the openness and transparency of its really dirty laundry politically that is laundered further whole world to see.

And that’s what’s been happening with this, and this is now happening with this as well. Very interesting. Yeah. I spent three years in the pharmaceutical industry and if I were in the pharmaceutical industry today I would be focused on the prospect of RFK Junior as the head of HHS. I’d be looking at his beliefs the people that he and Trump are planning on putting into other positions of leadership like the FDA and what their beliefs are and what policies they’ve talked about.

And start strategizing. Do we need a, I have seen a ton of communication now, unfortunately, I don’t, I haven’t seen this from the pharma industry, although I don’t know how much they’re, controlling from behind the scenes, but [01:13:00] talking about measles and talking about polio and how great these vaccines were, and denigrating the belief as I would myself that, rFK Jr. And some others have that. Oh, it wasn’t really the vaccines that did that. It was the change in the weather or, whatever it might have been. And building public opinion matters, right? And if you see a surge of public opinion and heated public opinion saying, no, these, I don’t want polio bad, I don’t want my kid in an iron lung.

It could influence policies. So this is what we need to be thinking about now. You can’t wait until the legislation’s introduced right? Or signed even worse. We need to be anticipating based on our industries and what we know about what Trump has said he is going to do, and what the people he’s appointing have written what their policy positions are.

We need to be paying close attention to this right now. Yeah. Good call to [01:14:00] action there, Cheryl. So let’s explore a topic. We’ve discussed a great deal during this year, and that’s reshaping the way we work, which is the rapid adoption of generative AI tools like Chat, GPT in the workplace.

Employees in nearly every industry are turning to these tools to code, right and research. As we’ve mentioned before, many workers are adopting AI faster than their employers can issue guidance or policies. Consider this according to a Financial Times report. Last week, nearly 25% of the US workforce and almost half of those in software and finance are using AI weekly.

In many cases, workers are experimenting in secret, wary of being labeled as lazy or incompetent. There’s also a fear that productivity gains could lead to job cuts or for those who stay heavier workloads. That said, not all organizations are lagging behind. Many companies were initially cautious, some even implementing blanket bans over privacy concerns, but others are already far ahead [01:15:00] rolling out detailed policies and infrastructure.

Businesses like McKinsey, Walmart, and JP Morgan Chase aren’t just catching up. They’re leading the charge says the FT building, secure in-house tools and moving full steam ahead into execution mode. For them, AI is no longer an experiment. It’s a strategic asset embedded into their processes. It’s clear there is a transformative trend reshaping industries worldwide, where employees across various sectors are leveraging AI technologies to enhance productivity, automate processes, and modernize customer experiences.

Notably, many organizations are not just keeping pace. Are leading the charge with comprehensive AI strategies and implementations. Also, last week, Google published an updated list of 321 real world generative AI use cases from the world’s leading organizations. We’ll have a link to Google’s report in the show notes, but let’s briefly review six industry specific examples.

Retail fast food chain. [01:16:00] Wendy’s is piloting generative AI at their drive-through windows in Ohio, streamlining order processing and allowing staff to focus more on customer service, beauty and cosmetics. The Estee Lauder companies are partnering with Google Cloud to transform the online consumer experience using generative AI enhancing personalization and engagement.

Automotive Volkswagen of America has developed a virtual assistant within their My VW app, enabling drivers to access information and receive assistance through AI driven interactions. Telecommunications Telecom implemented a Google powered voice agent to address customer calls increasing efficiency by 20%.

Healthcare, Qlik Therapeutics leverages AI to describe, to develop prescription digital therapeutics, enhancing patient engagement and treatment outcomes. Education Beyond 12, a tech enabled nonprofit has developed an AI powered college coach to offer [01:17:00] scalable coaching to first generation students providing support through text app and web platforms.

These examples illustrate that AI integration is not a distant future, but a present reality with companies actively deploying AI to gaining competitive edge. However, this rapid adoption also brings challenges including the need for clear governance, balancing innovation with risk, and navigating evolved legal frameworks.

AI’s rapid adoption is undeniably transforming the workplace, offering opportunities for greater efficiency, innovation, and customer engagement. However, as organizations navigate this new reality, the CRI critical question remains, how can they strike the right balance between empowering employees to use AI effectively and mitigating risks related to privacy, ethics, and workforce dynamics?

The examples we’ve highlighted show that companies across industries are proving it’s possible to integrate AI in ways that drive value while remaining thoughtful about its implications as we explore this [01:18:00] topic. In episodes of this podcast, we’ll focus on what leaders, teams and communicators can do to harness AI’s potential responsibly and ensure it’s a tool for progress, not disruption.

Michelle thoughts? I’m trying to open my VW so I can see the, yeah, I was gonna say, you have a vw do you have this in your My VW app? I haven’t used the, my VW app in quite some time I need to log in and see, and of course it’s doing two factor authentication, so I have to go check my inbox.

Oh yeah. But I have an ID four electric vw, which I love, with the exception of the fact that the range is only about 185 miles, so I’m charging it all the time. But I don’t take it on long trips. We take Michelle’s Lexus on long trips, but, I think this is absolutely right, is the need to look at what other organizations are doing and how they’re using it in order to spark the ideas about how you can use it.

I think two things that are going to drive this much faster. One is the the introduction of agents, which we talk about [01:19:00] ceaselessly. Because as soon as an organization says, oh, we can get this done that way, it’s not just, here’s a query and I’m gonna get a response, but we can actually have these tests routinely taken over by ai.

And, the thing to keep in mind about agents is it’s not one agent that’s gonna do everything. There’s gonna be an agent that does one thing and an agent that does another, and an agent that does another, and that you’re gonna end up with, dozens or hundreds of agents running in your organization.

So that’s one of the things that I think is gonna drive this. And the other is, as more and more software has the AI baked into it, and you’re using the software anyway I think this is what’s going to lead organizations to realize that this is just part of price of admission now for doing business.

And it’s gonna end up in, in every organization at some level. I think those that are strategic about it are going to get the edge. But you see all of these case studies and all of these different organizations and you can’t imagine it’s gonna take long before their [01:20:00] competitors go, Hey, wait a minute we can’t fall behind with this.

You’re right. I think it’s worth to, to your point, knowing what or looking at what others are doing. These six examples I gave are just six outta the 321 in that Google document. They’re definitely worth looking at. There’s a handful I read and I then researched them online to find out more information.

You can do the same Google it. Actually, you know what that’s a generic word. Now Google the lowercase. Okay. It means search. And it probably isn’t gonna be Google. It’s not Probably flex it. Yeah, flex, yeah. Flex it. Exactly. It’s good to to read this the FTS piece. Was in, I thought initially when I first read it, there’s an opinion piece really unduly negative about no one’s doing anything in organization.

It corrected itself or it added in. But there are some highlights and there are some highlights, and this really relates to what we were discussing earlier about the PR business missing the boats. And a couple of years ago, they were definitely way [01:21:00] out there in understanding and even willingness to get involved in all this.

They’ve come a long way in that there are some examples in the 321 of companies in, in that area. But the main thing is to look at this in retail, in automotive, in telecommunications, what people are doing in those areas. There are other case studies too. I’ve used many, I think we’ve talked about some of these, of what’s advertising agencies are doing, how they are employing generative ai.

And of course you are right to mention, the the rise of agents ’cause that was in my mind when I was talking, when we were in the conversation about the the report from USC that doesn’t mention agents. So this is all written before the sudden awareness of AI and agents that has really captured imaginations over the past, literally the past month or two.

And the way you described it exactly was gonna light up bulbs in people’s minds about, oh, this is how this is gonna give us value. And you mentioned an ai, an agent for this and an [01:22:00] agent for that. You’re gonna need super agents to manage all the agents. So this is, that presents some really interesting scenarios, I think.

But we are in another time of rapid change with tools around us. There’s, you and I talk about ai. I see many other people talking about this. I see content constantly about this kind of sifting through all of that. To find the stuff of value is something that communicators ought to do very clearly.

And tools like this or resources like Google’s a big help for that. Yeah, I joked about plexing it but I talked to more and more people who are using either perplexity or chat GPTs new search functionality instead of Google. And that led to an article that I just saw yesterday that Google said, watch for it.

At the top of Google searches, you’re now gonna have an AI search capability too. They see the writing on the wall, they see people shifting over to perplexity and chat GPT for search and yeah, they know they need to do something about [01:23:00] that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I’ve noticed, and I’m sure you have now on Google search, if you used Google search for things, and I still do typically at the top of the search is an AI generated answer to your question.

What I’ve noticed recently though is that they’ve now giving sources to that they weren’t doing that to start with. So I tend to think how can I trust what they, who’s saying this now? They’re providing the sources. So if they are literally shifting as the goalpost is shifting, they need to do that and they can still offer something that people might find a value, but they need to move faster than the current doing.

I, it seems to me, yeah. The AI overviews with the footnotes is a step in the right direction, but I think they’re planning something much more robust and more along the lines of what you’re seeing from perplexity and open ai. That’ll do it for this episode of four Immediate release.

But don’t go away just yet. We have a few things to let you know about not the least of which is when our next monthly episode will drop. We’re planning to record that on Saturday, January 25th. So it [01:24:00] will drop on Monday, January 27th. Note your calendars, folks. Also to let you know that January the third, 2025 is the 20th anniversary of this podcast for immediate release.

We are not gonna do what we discussed a decade ago that when we hit our 20th we’ll be on a cruise somewhere at the Pacific, maybe around Hawaii or damn, or yeah, we’re not gonna make it. But we’ll do it on our 25th. Yeah. The third is actually in our calendars for one of the short form midweek episodes.

So we will devote that or we’ll talk about that on the anniversary date when we publish that episode, which will be on January the third. I will have done the math and I’ll know exactly what number episode that actually is. Good. We’ll have lots of statistics for you. Also to let you know that we have another FIR interview coming.

Sean, I had a terrific conversation just a few days ago with Martin Waxman. Many of you will be familiar with Martin in Canada, and [01:25:00] we chatted with him at length. Great conversation That will be published week commencing January the sixth. That’s the plan, so look out for that. It was a wonderful conversation.

It was he’s one sharp guy. He is A lot of people who listen to FAR may remember Martin from inside pr the podcast that he did with Joe Thornley and Ginny Dietrich. Yeah. We suggested that it would be nice to hear those three voices together again, they would one of these days, and he seemed amenable to that idea.

Yeah. In the meantime, as you’re waiting for all of this great content from the FIR Podcast Network you can comment on anything that you’ve heard about in this episode or anything that you think we ought to be talking about or would like us to consider. There are a lot of ways to do that. You can send email to fir comments@gmail.com.

We love audio comments and haven’t had one in a while, so attach an audio file to that email up to three minutes. We’ll play it and you can be part of this [01:26:00] conversation. If you don’t have the wherewithal to record that, go to the FIR website, fir podcast network.com. You’ll see a send voicemail button on the right hand side.

Just click that and you can record up to 90 seconds. You can record as many of those as you want, and I will get those and look forward to playing those on the show. You can leave a comment on the show notes at FIR. Podcast network.com. You can leave comments where we let you know that we have posted new episodes on Facebook and LinkedIn and on Blue Sky and Threads and MAs it on.

We’re everywhere except X. We’re not on X anymore. And we also very much appreciate your ratings and reviews. Oh, and I forgot to mention that you can also leave comments where we share the latest episodes on the FIR podcast network page on Facebook and the FIR group on Facebook. [01:27:00] So also to quickly mention, and you mentioned Blue Sky.

We just opened an account in the name of FIL podcast until now. We’ve been sharing in our individual accounts on threats. Okay. We’ll continue to Oh sure. And, but now we have a dedicated account that replaces the X account. So look for a widget at some point appearing on the VIA website. But in the meantime it’s FIR podcast on Blue Sky.

So if you wanna look for us, follow us, that’s where you’ll see news and information about upcoming episodes. And you can there too, of course. And that’ll be a 30 for this episode of four immediate release.

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The communication function offers practitioners a rare opportunity. It is one of the few roles in any organization involved in every aspect of the business. In this Circle of Fellows panel, you will hear international perspectives on how the role of communication extends beyond the exchange of knowledge and information. The panel shares thoughts on how communication fosters organizational collaboration and can be viewed as a cornerstone for professional success. Learn how the fundamental principles of strategic communication excellence can apply across different business sectors, underscoring its value in any professional context, and how effective communication enhances teamwork and innovation, drives organizational growth, builds trust, inspires change, and helps achieve results. A communication role can position the communications professional to influence, impact, and potentially lead other business areas. (Did you know that the late Intel CEO Paul Otellini was a marketer before ascending to the company’s top job?).

About the panel

Neil Griffiths, ABC, Chart.PR, IABC Fellow, is the Global Head of Diversity, Equality & Inclusion at ERM, the world’s largest sustainability consultancy, where he is responsible for the global DE&I strategy and engagement plan. Neil’s background is varied, having spent the better part of 20 years in a series of external, brand, strategy, and internal communication roles before moving into DE&I. Neil has held leadership roles in several public, private, and non-profit organizations. In the volunteer space, Neil has held multiple leadership positions within the IABC and the Company of Communicators (CoC), one of the City of London’s modern Livery Companies. Volunteer highlights include being an inaugural Global Communications Certification Council member, Career Roadmap Committee member, Chair of the 2018 IABC World Conference (Montreal), Past Chair of IABC’s EMENA region, and, as of November 2020, Junior Warden of the CoC. Neil is a recipient of the IABC Regional Leader of the Year, Rae Hamlin, and IABC Chair’s Awards. In 2019, Neil was named IABC Fellow, the highest honor bestowed on an IABC member. With co-author Deborah Hinton, Neil has published two studies on the current and future state of the communication profession and advocates for channeling your best communication self regardless of where and how you work.

Russell Grossman, DipPR, ABC, FRSA, FCIPR, FCIM, IABC Fellow, has been a communications practitioner for nearly 40 years and a UK Senior Civil Servant since 2006. He’s the Director of Communications at the UK Rail Regulator, the Office of Rail and Road, and head of the Government Communication Service (GCS) internal communications profession. He’s a non-exec director of the “ Engage for Success ” movement to advance employee engagement and sponsor for both the GCS Fast Stream and GCS Talent. Russell and his long-suffering wife of 38 years are blessed with four children (one of whom also works within GCS) and five grandchildren.

Martha Muzychka, ABC, MC, speaks, writes, listens, and helps others do the same to make change happen. Martha is a strategic, creative problem solver seeking challenging communications environments where we can make a difference. She helps her clients navigate competing priorities and embrace communication challenges. Martha offers strategic planning, facilitation, consultation services, writing and editing, qualitative research, and policy analysis. Her work has been recognized locally, nationally, and internationally with multiple awards.

Jennifer Wah, ABC, SCMP, MC, IABC Fellow, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words, and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. Her agency has won over two dozen awards for excellence in strategic communications, writing, and consulting; Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare to financial services to academia and is passionate about the opportunity for stories to inspire actions and reactions within organizations. After serving as faculty with Royal Roads University, Jennifer was named an Adjunct Professor at the UBC Sauder School of Business, where she teaches business communication to future business leaders. A lifelong IABC volunteer at all levels, Jennifer most recently served as past chair of the Ethics Committee and is looking forward to welcoming all to the World Conference in Vancouver in 2025.

Raw Transcript:

Hi everybody and welcome to episode number 111 of Circle of Fellows. This is a monthly panel discussion of fellows of the International Association of Business Communicators on topics of interest to those of you working in organizational communications, PR, marketing, that type of thing. And I am Shell Holtz.

I am Senior director of Communications at Web Corp. We’re a commercial builder in California, headquartered in San Francisco, and I’m coming from home today in Concord, California. I have a great panel with me today to discuss an extension of last month’s topic. Last month we talked about executive communication.

Today we’re going to talk about communication and leadership, which is adjacent but not directly connected to last month’s theme. And I’d like there are our panel to introduce themselves. We’ll go clockwise as I see you on the screen that puts you first. Russell. Hi [00:01:00] there. I’m Russell Grossman.

I’m director of Communications at the UK Rail Regulator, the Office of Berlin Road. And I’m also the head of profession for internal communications for the UK government. In the context of today’s discussion I’ve been in my current role for nine years on my particular executive committee. And previous to that, have sat on various boards and executive committees of organizations.

Thank you, Russell and Neil. Hi everybody, this is Neil Griffiths. I’m coming to you from Saff from Walden in the uk, which is just outside Cambridge for anybody that has any ge geographical knowledge of the uk. I am global and Europe, DEI director for Kearney, which is a global management consulting firm.

I’ve been with them for the past 18 months prior to that. Spent a long time also in professional services, in the sustainability space, working in a variety of roles, not just in, in diversity, equity and inclusion but also a long background in [00:02:00] communication roles. Looking forward to the discussion.

Me too. Jennifer, you’re up. Hi everyone. I’m here in North Vancouver, Canada which is just across the water from Vancouver Proper, where the World Conference will welcome professional communicators from all over the world. Next June. I’m super excited to see you all here. My agency is called FORWARDS Communication, and through that agency I do work in strategic storytelling consultation with organizations.

I’m also an adjunct professor at the UBC Solder School of Business, where I teach business communications. Really looking forward to today’s conversation and Martha. Thank you. She, I’m Martha Zeka. I’m based in St. John’s, Newfoundland and Labrador, the east coast of Canada. I also like Jennifer sole proprietorship and independent consultant.

I do a lot of work coaching nonprofits as well as corporations working in the private sector [00:03:00] and a fair bit of board experience also at the not-for-profit level. So fair bit of engagement in terms of communications. I’m also a part-time instructor with the Gardner Institute School of Business at Memorial University, where we do ongoing professional development for people in business.

So it’s been a great opportunity to share the communications message and promote communications excellence. Thank you. And just a note to those of you who are watching live with us today. You do have the opportunity to participate in this conversation. You’re on YouTube there’s a place where you can enter your question, your comment, your observation and we’ll pop it up onto the screen and make it part of the discussion and really hope that you’ll take advantage of that because it makes these conversations more interesting when we’re able to talk about the things that you tell us you’re interested in.

Just to kick things off, I as a, as an avid fan of artificial intelligence asked [00:04:00] one of the AI models for examples of CEOs who got their start in communications. And it gave me an interesting first list. Chris Foster, who’s the CEO of Omnicom James Wright global, CEO of Red Haas Richard Edelman, of course, CEO of Edelman.

Chris Ruby Media Group and Julianne Richter head of Ogilvy. And I said, okay I can easily see how one might ascend to the leadership of a PR or advertising agency from within the ranks of that organization. Are there people who are running organizations that are not communication focused, that got their starts in communication and the model said, oh, sure.

Misha Dunna is CEO of Space Hive, a community fundraising platform, spent 20 years in communications. John Fallon is the former CEO of Pearson Global Publishing and Education Company. He had previously served as their Chief communication [00:05:00] officer and Sue Clark, former CEO of Sab Miller Europe transitioned from a background I.

In corporate communications to leading the European division of that beverage company. And where I work at Webco, our manager of outreach, a wonderful person I just love working with. She does all of our workforce development things like that. She’s new to this role. She had been in public relations and communications for about 15 years before that.

So making the transition seems to not be uncommon. What is it in your view about working in communication? And by the way, I should mention that the one that I knew before that and listed in the promotion for this episode was Paul Delini who was the CEO of Intel, who was the chief marketing officer there and came from a background in, in marketing.

So what is it about the communication field that lends itself to [00:06:00] moving into. Leadership roles that are outside the realm of communication?

I’ll start by saying everything. And I speak to my students about communications skill. These are business school students, and I speak to them about communication skills being the superpower foundation that they need to succeed in business because really the elements of understanding your audience linking it to the ability to link to the business objectives and communicate that with with through the right channel, with the right tone, et cetera, are all the hallmarks of, of great leaders and and frankly the leaders I’ve admired most shall to your set of examples or not most, but some leaders I’ve really enjoyed working with have been ones ones who’ve had a background in communications because they see the value of that of that superpower really. My experience is that leaders get to [00:07:00] be leaders either of one of two things.

They’ve either crawled on top of everybody else, shot others in the back and done dastardly things behind the scenes in order to crawl to the top of the leadership, or they are simply good communicators themselves. I myself often challenge the idea that we call ourselves communicators. Were, in my view, practitioners in communication, but the true communicators in a business actually are the leaders.

And as Jennifer says it’s something which is absolute the, these skills are absolutely fundamental to being a leader. And so perhaps it’s surprising that more people from the communication profession actually don’t end up in leadership. And I’m sure that’s something we can explore in the next few minutes.

And I definitely would like to explore that because it’s always struck me working in communications that we’re one of the few functions that has a good solid overview of pretty much every function in the organization. We have our fingers in everything. Neil, you had mentioned that there are [00:08:00] skills in communication that equip people with the tools that they need to become a business leader.

What kind of skills did you have in mind? Yeah, very much aligned with what Jennifer and Russell have already talked about. I think there’s, there are a few others in the organization that really understand how the organization works than the communication professionals in that organization in order to get our job done.

We, we need that collaboration and we need to understand how decisions are made. We need to understand, where the seats of power are. We need to really be connected to the organization in a way that other functions I just don’t think are. But then if you think about the fundamentals of what makes communication great, Jennifer referenced a number of them already, but that solid understanding of your stakeholders their needs their preferences how you’re gonna get to your outcomes.

I, I think that is just such a fundamental [00:09:00] capability that you can transfer beyond just the communication process, right? And you can extend that into decision making. You can extend that into operations. You can extend that into all sorts of things that, that leaders really need to grapple with.

But it’s that. If you think of the communication excellence model that IBC is so great at you can see how so many of those elements really apply across. And I think it’s that ability to have the vision because great leaders have a vision and can motivate and mobilize to create that positive response, that forward action.

But it’s not just about building the relationships, it’s also about seeing where those relationships are possible and in communications. When we look at storytelling and building those elements that tell a good story, it’s the same thing I find with communications, taking the different elements and highlighting who’s going to be, taking action, [00:10:00] who’s going to be leading, who’s going to be bringing up from behind to make sure that everything is heading in the right direction? And to me it’s about the relationships, it’s about the listening component and the collaboration. But it’s being able to translate that vision into action.

It’s also having a good judgment. Particularly being able to judge from a variety of diverse and apparently unconnected elements. So one of the things that we know about communications is that ultimately it’s an art. People will argue, I think, correctly, that it’s an art based on science, but it is an art because it involves humans who don’t always behave in the same way twice.

And that ability to bring these disparate elements together to form if you like, the patterns in the mess is something that we probably do most days and don’t think about naturally in communications. But it’s something that a lead, a good leader is able to practice and to put into and to put into action.

To, to good effect. And, Russell, sometimes I [00:11:00] think that communication professionals and those of us who have don’t know if it’s the way if our brains are wired this way to start, or and I guess it’s different for every person, but I sometimes find that we are the people in the room who can see that lay of the land, who can see that the connective tissue.

And I’ve experienced that as a volunteer around an IABC and other tables and around fundraising tables and executive leadership tables and tables of engineers where I have no idea what dialect they’re speaking. But but there is an ability, because of my communications, training and background to see where the river is going to run through the valleys and, and rise up rise up through mountains, et cetera. And I don’t really know where that comes from other than an ability to always be looking for that connectedness. I think there’s a level of curiosity in our profession that you don’t get in many other professions. I won’t mention HR or financeer specifically who tend to follow process rather than pragmatism [00:12:00] sometimes.

But it’s also true that when we apply ourselves in that kind of situation you just described, er, we also become the conscience of the organization. We see things that maybe others do see, but nobody else wants to point out. What I often call being the grit in the oyster without being in the pin in the balloon, but also the joker at the court of Klia.

And sometimes around the board table, my, my experience is sometimes it’s better not to be at the board, but around the board table if you’re part of the board, sometimes you are compromised in being able to call things out that you may not be if you are sat around the board table and not actually part of the board.

Neil, you were talking a few times about decision making as one of the outcomes that we get from our experiences as communicators. Certainly at the leadership level, it’s all about making key decisions about the future direction, the company, things like that. Where in communications does that decision making skill come from, do you think?

It does. It’s about the stakeholder analysis piece. Again, I think for me but [00:13:00] also when we’re developing really great communications, they’re grounded in research, I think there is a lot of instinct but we’re also great at really fully understanding the issues from a variety of perspectives.

And I think that skill and that capability. Sets us up to make really informed decisions and seeing different sides of it. So I think that’s probably where I’d come at this from. I think it’s also the ability to play a decision forward. Think about what’s gonna happen next, what are the consequences on our stakeholder groups.

And I think a lot of the time, in my experience and it speaks a little bit to what Russell just said about being the conscience. It’s helping the room that you are in, or the people around that table really understand what is the impact and are we really going to do we really fully understand from all perspectives what impact we’re gonna have?

It could be as simple as, okay, if we make [00:14:00] this set of promotion decisions right now, do we fully understand the impact of those who aren’t gonna be on, those who aren’t gonna be promoted? In the same way as are we about to acquire a company, what impact does that have on our operating environment, our diversity aspirations, whatever it is.

I think we’re just great at really considering all aspects of of the decision. Because we’re good at stakeholders, we’re good at research and we’ve got our foundation in that. And just to build on that, Neil when you talk about stakeholders, I think that’s not just external stakeholders, but internal stakeholders as well.

Absolutely. The way that we are communications is able to again, see those partnerships internally and see the op and see the opportunities. I don’t go into any client organization without asking my client. Okay, where are the change people? Who are the HR people? Who are, because those are the people who are [00:15:00] the DEI people.

Those are the people who also I know are going to see a clear path through a different lens. But whose work is going to elevate mine and vice versa. When I even think about, a few years ago I got to work with a really brilliant change enablement professional who really embedded me.

And I haven’t done pro sci training, but really embedded me in the whole ad car model around change management. And when you think about those elements awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, and reinforcement, all of those, and I think the change management people would agree, really rely ultimately on, on communication skills to move audiences and partners toward those various states to take people through change and transition.

Arguably again, communication communicators and and our partners are the ones moving organizations and communities of various sorts through those, through all sorts of [00:16:00] transitions. I think it’s really important to recognize that communicators also operate with various lenses. And it can be the DEI lenses, as Neil has highlighted.

It can be the stakeholder lens. It can be the research lens. If you look at policy development, program development, evidence-based decision making, where you take in data you also have to factor in the human data that you collect. And that’s why I think in terms of applying those lenses so that we can make good decisions and support good decisions, being able to have access to, what Russell highlighted that sort of innate curiosity of how does this work and why are we doing this and who else should be involved? Is there a different way that we could be doing that allows us to be effective communicators because you’re just not standing on a street corner and broadcasting a message over and over again.

There’s a whole process of engagement and understanding that [00:17:00] has to be in place in order for action to result. Yeah. I also think it, it’s important that we come to this without an agenda beyond supporting the organization and its goals. And people have biases when they make proposals or wanna make decisions.

And with that big picture to be able to say, but wait a minute, have you considered the impact on this group of this decision? And in terms of that big picture, I am reminded of a story Charlene Lee tells of a company. This was in the early days of blogging where they had started a couple of blogs and one of them was having a significant impact on their customer support.

People were getting answers by going to the blog rather than calling the customer support center. But in one of their blogs, they inadvertently violated a securities and exchange commission rule and were fined in the millions of dollars. And the lawyers. Immediately jerked [00:18:00] their knees and said, we need to shut this down.

That cost us X million dollars. And it was Charlene who stepped in and said, how much money do you suspect you have saved with the blog in terms of people getting answers and not having to call the company? And they said as we put pencil to paper, we estimate that’s in the $20 million range. And she said, okay, so you’re $15 million in the black.

You’re gonna shut this down. Why? Now, I think leaders, when they’re in the throes of the emotions around a decision, stop thinking about things like cost benefit analysis. And that objectivity in that big picture helps us bring that back to the table. I think you’ve just mentioned ahead, just, and I agree with that.

I think you’ve just mentioned shell, one of the factors and skills that we haven’t mentioned yet that you do need if you’re gonna become a leader, and that is the ability to work and manipulate data. Because ultimately as somebody said it, I think it was Liam [00:19:00] Fitzpatrick. If you come with data you leave with respect.

And I think as communications practitioners sometimes we tend to waffle and talk about words and commas and grammar and stuff like that. But ultimately at the board table, it is the data that the finance person, and the CEO is really interested in and have. If you’re able to do that effectively, that’s when I think you become a true leader of the organization.

Completely agree with that. And I think we can probably unpack that a little bit more actually. But I just going back to the point that you were making, shell, I think, when you spend years and years being the person who has to communicate and find ways of engaging people with the decisions and the, the like it or love it that, the way that the organization is going, I think you do develop a skill of saying, okay, hang on.

So you are deciding this. How are we gonna explain that? How are we gonna rationalize that? And I think just that process of going, [00:20:00] doing that for years and years does impact how you then in the moment very quickly can see whether or not something is a good or a bad decision. And I, I think that there’s a lot to that.

It’s something that develops over a long time. But I think we’re really good at it. And, sorry, just to quickly build on what you were saying not just how are we gonna explain it or rationalize it, but how are the people hearing it going to feel? And here’s the data about what we know about, the generalized data about what we know to anticipate they’re going to feel, and therefore, how should we adjust our message accordingly so that we can move people through this change or this transition, or this impact of some kind or another?

We do have a comment. Brian Kilgore shares a good PR person will spend much more time with customers and clients than will other executives at similar levels in hr, it, manufacturing, or even r and d. And I think that’s an excellent point. I remember I, I worked for a pharmaceutical company for a few [00:21:00] years and once a quarter.

I went out with a sales rep as he made calls on doctor’s offices. And I, you have no idea how valuable it was to hear directly from the doctors about how their relationship with the company was. Any thoughts on this?

Oh, I agree. I, when I worked in a large organization and I was probably one of the few senior managers who ate lunch every day in the lunchroom, and it was just a really good way to get a read on what people were thinking because, you could sit there and participate and contribute, but most importantly you could listen and get a sense of, what were the things that people liked?

What were the things that were perhaps not going the way they thought they would, or where there might be some misunderstandings. And it gave a sense you could, get a pulse on the organization. And I think if we can create those channels and those opportunities to talk to people about what’s [00:22:00] happening, you get a sense of that reality of how the organization is operating right at the ground level.

Yeah, I think that applies to internal communications as well. I did work when I was consulting with a big NGO in Washington, and they had a leadership board that ate lunch in a private dining room and never mingled with the employees except one. One of them came down into the cafeteria, grabbed a tray, knew all the cashiers by name and picked a different table to sit at every day.

The research showed that there was one leader in this organization that employees trusted not a big stretch to guess who that might have been among that leadership team. He really built those relationships. Leads to another good question is, for both internal and external relationships, how does a communicator go about building those in order to facilitate good communication, good collaboration.

For me, I think it’s [00:23:00] understanding what it is that they need, right? It’s that whole point of understanding the business or the organization, how it works how things get done ultimately. And that way you also find out the, where the win-win really sits. So when you are in a particular situation as a communicator or as a leader the what’s in it for them as part of whatever it is that you’re working on.

I’ve got change in mind, but what, I guess whatever it is that that it is that you’re working on. Yeah very true. And I think of the, the kind of little bit overused, but still still meaningful Mr. Rogers line, look for the helpers. And I think communication professionals are often seen that way.

And again, to my point, when I go into a client’s organization, I look for those allied professionals those folks who work in in similar fields to communications where where their goal is to both understand the impact on a group [00:24:00] and and. Take people through whatever they need to, whether that’s a process, a change, a towards something different, et cetera.

And generally when, when you find people in an organization who are like-minded in that way, working toward similar goals in similar ways you start to create community and alliances that amplify what we do. It’s also about being curious about people. I think it’s something that, again, as communications practitioners, we probably do more naturally, but to be curious about people, their backgrounds, what was their, what were their previous employments?

Possibly what’s their family background? What’s their cultural background? What do you know about them that you can relate to in a way that you can strike up a conversation, that you can remember things about them, et cetera. And I think, we all go around with kind of virtual rolodexes on what we know about certain people in a good way in order to both strike up and or, and then cement relationships sometimes over, over many years.

We work in a [00:25:00] profession where often you come across people that you may have come first across, years ago, and then you meet them again, perhaps in a different guise but you still remember things about them. I think that’s quite important. It is about being seen. I remember I once worked had this amazing supervisor who’s a leader of an organization and who kept a stack of note cards by her telephone.

And whenever she saw something that somebody had done or that she noticed, something that they had said or contributed to, she would write them a note. And acknowledge that contribution and the power of being seen was tremendous. And people would say, wow, I, I didn’t think that she would notice that I had done that.

Or, I’ve been doing this for years and nobody has said boo and now this person comes along and says, thank you. Or That was a great piece of work or whatever. So being seen and creating those spaces where people can be [00:26:00] acknowledged for their contributions, I think is part of how you build those relationships and build a community where people feel supported.

And that then when they are being given information that then they have the tools to start, putting that vision into action. So to me, I think it’s a combination of that big picture, but also those little things that add to the operations, the smooth functioning of an organization, both internally as, as well as externally.

Okay, so it’s the time of year when we’re all going to holiday parties and getting together with friends. That kind of rush where people say oh, we have to get together before the holidays, before the end of the year. And I’m sure that you all have been in a situation where you come back, you leave a gathering like that, and you think the, you think about all the things you learned about the people that you were speaking with [00:27:00] about a challenge they might have about their kids, about what they might want for Christmas about their pet, an upcoming travel adventure and the, and personal things as well as professional things Again.

Challenges there, something that’s stressing them at work. And often I come, also come away from those gatherings thinking, huh, isn’t it interesting that not that many people asked me that about me? Not that I care to be asked. I’m, I, like Russell says I’m a curious person, so I want to know those other people’s stories.

But I think part of it, Martha, to what you’re talking about is that kind of idea of holding space, of giving people room to tell and share their story in ways that, that we then can perhaps see a more meaningful thread or moment. Whether that’s recognizing someone for a little. Tidbit of something that they didn’t you know, they, that they didn’t think anyone noticed, or whether it’s just remembering a little detail of of, again, a person’s [00:28:00] life or their a conversation that you’ve had.

Holding space for that in our own brains and our own professional practice has a profound impact on the people and the communities around us. There was some fascinating research that was reported by a number of outlets back in August. This was from an organization called the Observatory on Corporate Reputation, which was a new one on me.

But what they did was, they examined the fortune thousand companies and found that roles of chief communication officers that had an additional role tacked onto it. So it was chief communication and blank officer had risen 88% since 2019. And outnumbered the total number of chief communication officers who only did communication.

And they’ve ranked the additional roles that these officers have. [00:29:00] Chief Communication and Marketing officer chief Communication and HR Officer, chief Communication and Sustainability, ESG impact chief Communication and Corporate Affairs Officer, chief Communication and Brand Officer investor relations, public affairs, and DEI all being added onto the CCO title.

Is this a way that organizations are saving money by not having additional people sitting around the table? Or do they see communicators as uniquely positioned to take accountability for these additional roles? I. I think this works in both directions. It’s interesting in terms of what you said, that all those titles began chief communications, and and that does suggest that the chief communi the communications element was the principle, although most of the ones you listed actually were also, and another communications discipline with the exception of hr.

But what I’m seeing is that you’re seeing communications and strategy put [00:30:00] together, for example or communications and corporate operations, for example, or in one or two cases communications and one or two operations of the business. And to your question, I think it I think it, it, when I say it goes both ways, I think either you can see that the communications partner’s been squeezed out and someone else has done it, or the opposite.

And in the opposite case, that’s often been down to the quality and the assertiveness of the person that was in the communications role to say. And to demonstrate that they can do more than simply communications, because communications is a more generic business function than the organization expected.

But this is where I think it’s also important that communications practitioners who are capable don’t just sit in their box to be communications practitioners. And demonstrating that either at executive level, around the board table or elsewhere in the organization is a space that we should be operating if we feel we’ve got the capability.

I’ll stick with you there for a minute. Russell, at what point then [00:31:00] would a communicator stop thinking of themselves as a communication practitioner and sort of transition into perceiving themselves as a business leader? I think it’s when they’re sat round, the board table, executive committee, whatever you want to say, and they’re thinking, hang on a second I could do that job as well.

Or, there’s nothing particularly special about that particular role that doesn’t include a lot of generic elements of my skillset that I could apply that. And I think I’ll suggest to the CEO that next time, for example, there’s a vacancy in that particular area. Maybe he or she wants to combine the two roles together.

And I think that’s probably the point. It’s a, I think it’s also a point in a person’s career which is about their confidence as well as competence in the organization.

Other thoughts on that? Anyone? If you work in the not-for-profit sector, you often get roles that are. Layered upon each other. And the one I [00:32:00] see most frequently is communications and fundraising. You also have, communications and community relations. So there’s part of that is driven by budget considerations because they recognize the need for that role, but they may not necessarily have the budget for a separate person.

So the communications function absorbs that as a better fit than perhaps other areas. But I think where you see the transition from a communications officer to a communications director or director of communications and strategy comes with that strategic higher level analysis that allows you to start applying the things that you have seen and gathered in your initial years in the role within the communications function to apply to other components of the business operation.

Think shell, to your question about is it which came first with regards to the el the the use of that title [00:33:00] and what it means for organizations. I observed during Covid, as did many of us, that that organizations, there was a reckoning among organization, amongst organizations, a realization that communications was perhaps more essential than they even realized.

And I said at the time that kind of, it was this spotlight on communication professionals. Professionals. It was our time to shine, to show up to really profoundly make a difference within organizations. And I would sus my own hunch would be that what you’re describing or what that research showed is a bit of organizations needing to perhaps performatively indicate to their audiences that communications is a foundational element of their organizational structure.

Now, I think that was an earned bit of performative titling perhaps. But I think that could be part of it.

I think another. Discipline where communications [00:34:00] has developed some expertise recently I would say over the last maybe 35 years or so, is technology. To some extent we’ve always been engaged with technology at some level. I remember doing press checks with blue lines, so I understood printing technology.

I carried a little book from International Paper called Pocket Pal wherever I went. But digital technology has really become the foundation of most of the communication work that we do. So we’ve had to become expert in that. I was recently invited to speak at a gathering of all of the IT people who work for companies that are owned by my company’s parent company.

Flew to Long Island and talked to a room of about 60 people about how we’re doing AI at Web Corps. Seems that. This is something that we end up doing quite a bit, which is branching out of communication into other areas of expertise. How do we leverage [00:35:00] that? And also how do we make the case for the kind of investment in that will, serve the goals of the organization and the needs of the communication function.

I think knowing the history behind communications in some respects. I remember being at one of the IBC conferences in London and we were asked to put when we used different things or acquired different things and how we applied them and just seeing how technology influenced the work that we did.

Previously when I first started communications, we used to hand deliver our news releases and then we adopted the fax, and then we had fax lists, and then we adopted email and listservs. And in terms of how technology functions in the organization, communications professionals are among the early adopters who, because.

We can see the efficiencies that result, but also because we’re curious, could this make our work better? Could it be faster? How do we make our presentations [00:36:00] more engaging? How do we share information visually to reach people in a different way other than the printed word? How can we share information across multicultural communities and so on?

So I think for me, the role in communic technology in communications is really how we can do things that will allow us to have greater impact. And to me, that’s fundamentally the question of why we will do something is what will be the impact? Can we make it better? Can we make work easier? Can we have a greater reach?

Can we foster understanding and uptake so that we get the results that we want in terms of the vision and the action for our employees and for our customers and for our clients? I think that’s where I was gonna go as well. Martha, I impact was the word that, that came up for me. And shell, I think you were asking, how do we somewhat make the case, right?

For either adopting something or pursuing a certain path from a [00:37:00] tech perspective. Again, comes back to what Russell said earlier about data, right? If you can bring the data in the room, I think you make a much more compelling case. But that has to be focused on the kind of impact that you are gonna have for the organization, for the communication process that you are, that this technology is looking to facilitate.

Neil, I’m gonna, I’m gonna pick on you for a minute because of everybody on the panel right now, you’re the one who’s not working in a communication role. You work for the DEI function. How did you make that transition because you were in. A communication role. I was so I was at my last firm at the time.

And it was a setup where really diversity, equity, inclusion wasn’t anyone’s primary focus in the organization. We I don’t think we were alone in that. There are many organizations that were quite progressive on this, but certainly more I would say that we’re in the sit, same situation that we were.

So it was a little bit side of desk for [00:38:00] me. But we knew it mattered and we knew it was important. And there were a group of us, it was led initially by one of the partners and HR directors. But she assembled a small team really of people who were willing to support.

And essentially I was really the communication business partner, if you will, to really get DEI off the ground when that partner left the firm. I was asked to just keep things going and progressively took on more and more. It, I do think going into DEI from a communication background is a really it’s an easier transition, I think than for many for a number of reasons.

I think a lot of the things that we’ve talked about before I was able to advocate for the people in the organization, the groups that, that needed to be visible. And that, I was able to use the communication skills to, to really keep the story central to all of the work.

But I was also very used to. Asking for the [00:39:00] organization to pay attention to this. I’d spent years and years trying to make the case for great communication in an organization for whether that was internal or external. And really the, it feels a little bit distant now ’cause it feels like we, we have this seat at the table as communication professionals, but for a long time we didn’t.

And we were used to making that case. And so going into DEI, which was then also making its own case, I was very at ease with that. And I wasn’t discouraged by the fact that we were trying to push on the door. That wasn’t all the way open yet. And so that really stood me in good stead, I think to drive this work.

And as I said before, just really understanding where this fits in, fit into the business, how it advanced the the aims of the business and how it improved life overall for not just the underrepresented groups, but for everybody. ’cause ultimately, DEI work is about improving the whole organization.

I think coming from a comms background really set me up for that. I would imagine that moving to DEI from [00:40:00] communications is easier than, say, moving to accounts payable. I would argue the same. But that does lead to a question. Leaders need an overview of the entire organization, and there are parts where we probably dip our fingers a little less.

How important is it for us to understand the functions of those departments as we pursue more leadership roles? I think this goes back to what we were saying earlier about, I think it was Neil that said it, that you when you’re in communications, you have the role, you have the run of the whole organization.

And I think that means that you can use that to your advantage to go out and understand what all those different roles are. If you’re in an organization that’s a manufacturing organization, so what does the manufacturing pipeline look like? What do this, what do the customers look like? What do the suppliers look like?

If you if you’re in a different type of organization, say an accountancy firm or one of the one of the major consulting organizations. How does their business work? And in order to do that, go through every function, one of the things that we have a [00:41:00] license to do is basically to, to ask questions on the guise of it’s in communications, therefore I need to know about it.

But in doing so, of course, but yeah and showing an interest and also gaining, gaining the knowledge of that you are gaining the respect of the organization and therefore the credibility in order to achieve what you then want to achieve either in communications or in a wider leadership role.

If through the work that we do, we build. A great bank of trust with our stakeholders, both internal and external. It also builds trust in the communication function that, that produced that result. One of the challenges I’m dealing with this right now in my organization, is leadership visibility.

Trust is an important issue in the organization. It’s addressed very overtly at the leadership levels, and yet the leaders are not [00:42:00] ridiculously visible to the employee population. So I guess I’ll expand my question beyond my own challenge, both internal and external. How do we support visibility to build trust in leadership knowing that eventually that trust is gonna come back to us?

I think we lead by example there, right? And I certainly did this when, with the DEI role. I think because I guess naturally I felt the urge and also the the need to be very prominent and communicate on this topic. Therefore the whole organization then became very comfortable about having the necessary conversation.

It’s very specific to my example, but I guess just trying to illustrate that, if the communication function can set the tone and show what happens when you create the kind of communication that the organization is looking for and certainly needs from its leaders.

Then I think that just lays the ground for that. I guess the [00:43:00] challenge is when you’ve got a leader or a leadership team that either doesn’t see the value in communication or is scared of communication or for some reason is not engaging on that level because that’s a really hard, that’s a really hard sell.

But I think again you need to go back to the data. You need to show how this is going to transform the organization for the better. And I’m sure that my colleagues on the panel have got great examples of how they’ve worked with leaders in, in that way. I think this is one which brings together a lot of the things that we’ve spoken about in terms of understanding the business, in terms of having credibility yourself in terms of the ability to create relationships and the degree of counsel that you are able to affect with your senior leadership.

You don’t have to sit on the board for that, but you do need to have the trust and be a confident, principally to the CEO, but also, or the managing director or whatever, but also to others and to understand what their barrier is, what their blocker is in [00:44:00] becoming more visible. In some cases it may be that they are desperately shy.

In other cases it may be that they just don’t understand the value of visibility particularly if they’ve grown up in a different culture as the culture of the organization. But understanding where people’s confidence and competence. Come together in a way that you can make a difference as a coach and as a confidant and working on one by one.

So if you worked you wouldn’t take your most difficult case to start with. You take a case that was moderately difficult but one that you could overcome and then use that as an example to show, if Bogans over there is able to do it, maybe you’d be able to do it as well. But not to underestimate these things take a lot of time and a lot of resource and effort, but it is effort that we should be prepared to put in order to achieve that result.

And, Russell, I was thinking about that and Neil, when you mentioned about your trajectory and your career path, that this is a [00:45:00] long game in many cases, right? This is an investment both from a career perspective, but then also but then also in terms of our the trust that we build within organizations and within our communities that we can say help, let me help you understand your audience and and reach them better and have a better impact.

But when we show that as the IBC model calls us to do with evidence and with data as an outcome, not just an output when we show that over short, medium, and long term are the most. Have the most profound impact. Then we really begin to earn trust. Trust as professionals. I think it’s also true, Jennifer, that when we talk about that trust and earning it there’s an accessibility question.

And by accessibility I mean in terms of who has access to senior leadership and then who has access in terms [00:46:00] of the information that’s available at the front line. And I was struck at an IBC conference. There was a presenter who said, every time they would hear a leader say, people can come to me, my door’s always open.

He, said the flip side to that is that they have a door that can be closed and how that can send a signal that who controls the access. And clearly there are decisions that need to be made and things that need to happen and conversations and so on at different levels. But when we look at visibility and accessibility to share concerns or to share ideas and potential innovations how we build trust comes to the accessibility.

Do we make it possible for people to share what they know and also for them to listen to what people have to say? So I, when I think about the questions of trust, I do often think about that simple image of who has a door and who [00:47:00] doesn’t change. Communication is easier when you have, I. Trust as a foundation.

Change is also a discipline that thrusts a lot of communicators into leadership roles who may not have had one before. I think Covid was an example of that, particularly with internal communicators suddenly being relied on much more heavily by leadership than previously in a lot of instances.

How can we leverage change communication to build our own leadership chops and grease the wheels toward leading bigger parts of the organization?

I see us as two halves of a whole in many ways or parts to the circle. Change communication has just so many principles that are similar to what we practice in, in, in communications per se. And again, really change comes into into our measurable outcomes, right? What are, what [00:48:00] Im, what action or reaction are we looking for from any audience on any topic at any time?

And how do we know that we got there? And those are really the elements of change, communication, albeit phrased in different ways with many of the professionals I’ve worked with. But it’s a profound partnership and opportunity. And as you said, shell many I have many colleagues who’ve moved from communications into related fields, hr, coaching and change Included in that.

This is good. Although sometimes I’ve lost counter the number of times that somebody who didn’t have a job at the right time that wasn’t a communications practitioner ended up leading change and not really knowing what on earth they were doing. And it came apart across it. It was the necessity for me or somebody in my team or whatever to then step in and say, actually that’s not what you do.

And too many times I’ve just seen an assumption that anybody that doesn’t really [00:49:00] understand change can actually do change. And we have to be able to step in there when necessary and act. We have a couple of comments. Brian Kilgore says, get out of your cubicle and visit. Departments, stores, factories and suppliers could not agree more.

I get some of my best insights when I get out of the office and out onto a construction project site where the actual work is being done. But Miko has a question specifically for you, Russell. How might a Mid-Career Communicator Act is their communic their corporation’s conscience without harming their career progress?

They’re vulnerable, less secure, financially less able to rock the boat. I think you have to have the courage of your convictions, really. And I think this is just so important generally in communications. I think if you think that something needs doing, or something needs pointing out or is wrong, if you’re a mid-career communications practitioner and you’ve been doing what you should be doing for, for good, you should have a level of credibility that allows you to challenge.

I think if you are [00:50:00] not in a position where you feel at that stage in your career that you can challenge the organization to some degree, there’s probably something gone wrong. I think I, I feel quite strongly about this as you can see. And I think it’s something that we as practitioners have a a duty which we owe to our organizations.

Often when the organizations itself, the organization itself cannot see the need that we can see looking, if you like, from a more a more global perspective on the organization rather than those people who have got their head down in the organization all the time. Vocabulary that I’ve used before is that I wouldn’t be doing my job properly if I said yes to this or no to this.

It and I think Russell’s absolutely right it, it’s in the description of one’s contribution to the organization and reminding people that actually, yeah, this is part of what I do. I completely relate to the comment shared because I imagine that there are a number of people doing the work that we do [00:51:00] who have had to pause because of, they’ve weighed up the potential impact on them personally.

But I, as I, I’ve done it, I’ve, I was mid-career and I said no to something or doing something because it was not the right ethical thing to be doing. And I said, look I cannot be part of this. And ultimately the organization I was with at the time went in a different direction.

And it’s on all of us in our profession to do that. Otherwise we, I think we can all understand the impact of that collectively. One, one of the thing I would say is that at the time I mean I’ve been an IBC member a very long time. But there I was able to also lean on the code of ethics and say, actually, I’ve made a commitment to a code of professional practice.

Not necessarily everybody’s gonna need that to lean on, but I found that very helpful to be able to say, look I’m a professional. I have a code. This does, this is not consistent with that code. I’m glad you mentioned that Neil, because [00:52:00] it also comes back to organizational values.

And so interestingly in that list of job descriptions, shell that you provided communications and ethics officer didn’t seem to be part of the job title in top ranking. If it exists. Another way for organizations, I think, because you can have multiple people with multiple codes of practice, hospital health based organizations as an example.

But if you can go to your code of ethics and you can go to the organization values and say, if we do this, how are we living up to our values as an organization? How are we maintaining or keeping or upholding our promise to our stakeholders, customers, clients, our employees? To me that’s a fundamental question that we need to look at.

And that is all the time we have. We are at the top of the hour. I just have a couple seconds to let everyone know. That episode one 12 of Circle of Fellows is scheduled for 4:00 PM Eastern on Thursday, January 16th. We’ll be [00:53:00] talking about sparking creativity. Our coordinator of these events Anna Willie is working on assembling that panel, but so far Zoa Artis and Andrea Greenhouse will be joining me for that one.

So I hope to see everybody there. Thank you so much to the panel today. This has been great, and we’ll see you all next month.

The post Circle of Fellows #111: Professional Communication as a Leadership Foundation appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Even when they know it has been rigged, people assign a lot of credibility to experiments. When they see the experiment produce favorable results, for example, potential customers might be more inclined to buy. Experiments can also influence decision-makers in your company — again, even if they assume you put your thumb on the scale. The phenomenon is similar to wrestling, with audiences knowing the match is staged by enjoying it all the same. Neville and Shel review some research on the subject and discuss ways communicators can apply experimentation to their work in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• Socializing an Idea? Experiments Can Help Convince Your Audience | Working Knowledge

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw transcript:

Hi everyone, and welcome to four immediate release episode four 40. I’m Neville Hobson. And I’m Shel Holtz, and Marketing. Is hard. Seriously it’s getting more and more difficult to influence people. Some businesses are finding that experimentation can be a powerful tool, not just for making decisions about the marketing approach that you’re gonna take, but as an actual instrument of influence.

A recent study by Harvard Business School’s, Rebecca Karp and her colleagues, reveals that business experiments can serve. Two purposes, gathering data and persuading stakeholders. We’ll dive into how this plays out in two distinct complimentary approaches right after this. First, let’s examine how experiments influence I internal decision makers.

Carps research shows that business experiments frequently become what she calls staged performances with scripted endings. Now, before you shrug this off as [00:01:00] just petty manipulation, consider an interesting parallel. She draws from of all things professional wrestling. Just as wrestling fans they’re known as smarts.

I didn’t know that. That’s a mashup of the word smart and mark. Smarts understand that they’re watching a performance, but they still appreciate the show. Now, shift that concept to business and you get sophisticated business audiences that are able to recognize that experiments also. Come with an agenda most of the time.

Think about a startup founder presenting experimental results to venture capitalists. The VCs know the startup team likely designed the experiment to favor a particular outcome, but they don’t view this as deceptive. As one VC told carp. It’s a feature, not a bug. The ability to structure compelling experiments demonstrates a founder’s strategic thinking and persuasive capabilities.

These are qualities that investors actually value now. So how does all of [00:02:00] this translate into the practice of PR and marketing? Keep in mind, transparency about experimental limitations doesn’t diminish the their persuasive power. In fact, acknowledging potential biases while still delivering valuable insights can enhance your credibility.

The goal isn’t to present. Perfect unbiased data, which let’s face it rarely exists in business context anyway, but to generate useful information that helps decision makers make their decisions while advancing strategic objectives. Now let’s pivot to the second approach, using experiments themselves as content to influence consumers and external stakeholders.

We’ve seen a lot of really great examples of this strategy in action considered Dove’s real beauty sketches experiment. They had an FBI trained forensic artist drawing women based on how they described themselves and then drawing the same women based on somebody else’s description. What they found was [00:03:00] that the women described themselves as being much less attractive than objective.

Third parties who didn’t know them, who described them. This generated massive engagement and reinforced Dove’s brand positioning around authentic beauty. Another example, remember Blend text? Will it Blend series? This started as a simple product demonstration and it became a viral sensation. They blended everything from iPhones to golf balls.

The experiments weren’t just tests. They were compelling contents that showcased product benefits and entertained audiences. There was re’s opt-out side campaign, which offered another masterclass in experimental marketing by closing stores on Black Friday and tracking outdoor activity, REI turned their businesses business experiment into a movement.

The campaign not only generated immediate buzz, it created a lasting impact on the perception of people have of the brand. Now for PR professionals, these examples [00:04:00] highlight an important evolution in how we think about experiments. They’re not just tools for gathering data or making decisions.

They’re opportunities to create compelling narratives and build deeper connections with audiences. The trick is to design experiments, serve multiple purposes. You definitely wanna generate those useful insights, but you also want to create that shareable content. Now this approach requires careful consideration.

For experiments to work as content, they need three key elements. They need authenticity, transparency, and relevance. It has to feel genuine, even if it’s designed with persuasion in mind. The methodology and limitations should be openly acknowledged. That’s transparency and most important, the experiment has to resonate with your audience’s interests and concerns.

This trend is likely to continue growing as consumers become more sophisticated and demanding of evidence-based claims experiments. Give us a powerful way to demonstrate value while engaging the audience. The [00:05:00] challenge is to find creative ways to turn research and testing into stories that drive both understanding and action.

So don’t limit your experiments to the ones that you conduct behind closed doors. The AB tests that of course we’re gonna continue to do, but you should consider how your testing and learning process become. Part of your story, could your product development experiments become content? Could your market research be turned into shareable insights?

The answer to these questions might just lead to your next breakthrough campaign. Yeah. A lot to think about there. Shel, the first thing that struck me, listening to what you were saying and indeed, I think Rebecca Kapa has done a super job with this in her studies that she mentions in that Harvard Business Review article, how experiments can play different roles in business.

But what struck me was, isn’t this something that. Businesses have been doing for years. Would it not be called thinking out loud, perhaps? Literally doing your experimentation in the open. Maybe they don’t [00:06:00] call it experimentation, because this strikes me as something that isn’t this what businesses have been doing for quite a while.

I think to some extent businesses have been doing this, but I don’t think that they’ve been doing it as a strategy. I think somebody in the marketing or the advertising department has an idea, Ooh, what if we had a sketch artist do this? As opposed to saying what experiments were conducted as part of our product research or our market research.

We can turn into content. So I think the difference is, yeah, there, there are great examples that Dove example is several years old. BlendTech you remember Will it blend? That’s what, 10, 15 years ago? So you it’s not new to see this employed. I just think it’s new to think about it in the context of experiments as.

A marketing asset to say what experiments have been conducted as part of the research for this product or service or brand identity, or whatever it is that the [00:07:00] campaign is focused on. Or what experiments could we conduct that would provide compelling evidence that would convince a skeptical audience while also entertaining them?

I think it’s considering experimentation as the focus of a marketing effort that Rebecca Karp has brought forward. Got it. So the Harvard article mentions that her in their words that her research comes at a time of consumer skepticism. And she, it also mentions that the audience the experiments cop talks about tend to be other business leaders.

They don’t expect such experiments to be exhaustive. So what do you think need needs to happen to make it far more strategic in the organization? Is there a particular thing communicators need to do to get this into a strategic approach as opposed to either not happening or happening in a limited scale that’s not no one [00:08:00] knows about?

On the internal side, I think it’s pretty much what we have been doing all along. I, yeah. One of the items that I read talked about the fact that, you’re going to do an AB test in order to convince somebody that you should be going with A and not B, frequently, you’ll make a really great, let’s say headline and B not so great a headline.

Yeah. So that. The movies shows your bus who are gonna make the decision will say of course a tested better, let’s go with a right. Yeah. So again, it’s performative. From the external standpoint though, no I think it comes down to stakeholder analysis. You really need to know your audience. Yeah.

As you mentioned, the article talks about an increasingly skeptical consumer base. In terms of the product that we want to sell or the service we wanna sell, or the brand that we want people. To appreciate what is the basis of that skepticism and what kind of. Experiment, could we conduct, what kind of [00:09:00] research could we present that would convince them, oh look, the data shows that this is true.

Okay. I’ll be less skeptical and consider a purchase. I’ll consider doing business with that organization. Design the experiment to address the source of the skepticism as opposed to just saying, Ooh, here’s a cool experiment that would look good on film and convince nobody of anything.

That makes sense. You mentioned Dove and of course they’re almost like a, poster chart for experimentation in public. I really am wondering why we don’t. Seem to do this more in organizations and do them publicly so that, is it fear of failure in public or is it that it’s, there aren’t smart people like there are in Dove?

Is it as simple as that? I think it may just be more habit and laziness. A lot of things to change. There needs to be pain, right? Oh my God, this isn’t working anymore. We need to do something different. We talk about this when we talk about the adoption of [00:10:00] technology by public relations organizations, whether they’re internal or agency.

Why would we learn a new technology when our billings are high and our clients are happy? It’s not until money is taken off the table by a boutique that. Learns how to make websites or do social media or whatever it might be that the public relations people say, oh, we’d better learn how to do this because either the clients are demanding it or they’re hiring other people besides us to do it.

So I think it’s the same thing here. Where is the pain that’s going to drive people to try something different when the approaches that we’re using now seem to be selling product? Yeah so then it comes down to perhaps the art of persuasion. Actually prior to that, it would come down to, do you see this I whole notion of experimentation or say, project X that we’ve been working on for a while.

Why don’t you do this with Project X? And therein is the hurdle that everyone seems to fall at. [00:11:00] If that’s true. Is it? I, that’s a good question. But perhaps we need to undertake an experiment to convince the powers that be, that experimentation would be a good communication or a good marketing approach.

I can see it from a PR standpoint where you’re not trying to sell, where you’re just trying to persuade that here’s an experiment that helps. Persuade you that this is the appropriate approach to take? Yeah, so in the strategic planning where you’re looking at the strategy that you’re going to employ in order to achieve the goal one of those strategies might be to present the results of an experiment that demonstrate the value of what we’re talking about.

So it’s thinking about it at that stage of your planning that I think might get the ball rolling on this type of thing. I’m, it comes to mind that the kerfuffle that arose in recent weeks over Jaguar, the car maker and the reader design of their logo and the introduction of concept car I.

That [00:12:00] created a huge amount of online chatter with opinions being ventured every which way you like on what a disaster it was. What are they thinking of, they’ve ruined the brand, et cetera. And then a few, I would call them smarts in Rebecca Rebecca’s cop description who said, hang on a second.

This is actually quite good. They are reinventing this. It’s a whole new approach, et cetera. All that’s been going on, this to me is in this realm now. Of course, not knowing anything about what the plans are they might say to me, you’re crazy. This is totally not that. But it looks like it to me.

This is in the do area. It seems to me of some really keen. Ideas are being are executed with significant resources behind. This is not like a quick petty cash operator. There’s se serious budgets behind this kind of thing, and it either fail or not, but they’ve got, I suppose you could argue from a brand point of view a whole lot of conversations about the brand [00:13:00] has been has been mentioned in mainstream and social media globally.

And that may be what is their goal, perhaps? I don’t know. But that’s big scale, right? And not everyone’s able to do that. So what about little things that might work in niche markets? And again, to your point earlier you mentioned you, you need to understand your audience. Exactly. I’m just wondering what’s really, what is preventing people doing more of this?

Or is it simply that it is a niche no matter what Rebecca Kas research shows, this is just a niche idea. It’ll never gain major traction. Yeah. A couple of thoughts. First on the Jaguar side that could well be an experiment, but it would be a different type because they’re not presenting the results of the experiment to the public.

Not yet. They’re engaging the public in the experiment. It’s covert experiment. We’ve decided to experiment with a new logo to see what kind of reactions we get from the public if that indeed is what they did. In, in terms of smaller organizations doing this, a again, I think it just doesn’t occur.[00:14:00]

To people. You don’t need to spend a ton of money. BlendTech spent whatever it cost to buy the item that they blended. They didn’t have a huge studio set up. It was all pretty simple. They needed one of their blenders in a golf ball, one of their blenders and an iPhone.

Most companies can afford the budget to do that sort of thing. So again, I think, when you’re doing your strategic planning, if your strategy says we’re going to. Use an experiment to present. Experiment results in order to help persuade people that this is the solution that they wanna, that you know they wanna spend money on.

Then when you’re developing your objectives being measurable approaches that you take to achieving the strategies that you’re putting in place. One of them would be that the experiment can’t cost more than. $20,000. That would be part of the measurable element of the objective that you set so that you can, stay within your budget.

But I would think that a couple of good [00:15:00] communicators could look at the whatever it is that they’re trying to communicate and come up with some ideas for experimentation. And if you can’t, you can always just go ask Chachi pt. Good advice there. Shel, and that’ll be a 30 for this episode of four immediate release.

The post FIR #440: Experimenting for Influence appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini delve into the importance of empathy in agency management. They emphasize the need for agency owners to put themselves in the shoes of clients, prospects, and employees to improve communication and relationships.

Key points discussed include handling difficult client conversations, managing scope creep, billing practices that avoid perceptions of nickel-and-diming, and providing constructive feedback to employees without micromanaging.

They also advocate for regular, honest communications with clients and creative solutions to financial challenges faced by both agencies and their clients. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 254: Agency owners need to put themselves in other people’s shoes appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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There is a common thread among many of the predictions and trends posts that typically blossom across the web as the year draws to a close: AI agents are poised to revolutionize (a word we don’t use lightly) work in 2025. The frontier AI models — ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, Llama, and a few others — have captured imaginations and led to various uses throughout the business world. But these chatbots, which deliver answers to natural-language queries, will pale compared to agentic AI, which sets off to complete tasks that require multiple steps autonomously. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel delve into agentic AI and its possibilities for communicators, along with five other digital marketing trends.

Links from this episode:

• Top 2025 digital marketing trends: AI, MMM, and more
• Greg Isenberg’s list of agentic AI possibilities on LinkedIn

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Raw transcript:

Hi everybody, and welcome to episode number 439 of four immediate release. I’m She Holtz. And I’m Neville Hobson. We are close to Christmas, the time of year when marketers, communicators, and everyone comes out with predictions and trends for 2025, the come following year which is that year, we have one here.

We’ve talked about a couple recently, and this one’s actually quite interesting. Last week Google celebrated 25 years of they say transforming how we search and discover and shared its vision for the top marketing trends shaping 2025. From smarter tools like AI powered marketing mix models to the rise of shoppable video, Google says, the future promises more intuitive, ethical, and consumer centric approaches.

We’ll explore these trends right after this. We will also see AI agents simplifying complex workflows and mindful [00:01:00] marketing addressing consumer decision fatigue. These trends reflect a pivotal moment where technology meets responsibility, paving the way for a more sustainable and inclusive marketing future.

Google’s insights highlight six key digital marketing trends poised to shape 2025. Let’s look into what this means for businesses and marketers alike. The first one, the evolution of marketing mix models and is a statistical analysis tool that helps marketers evaluate the effectiveness of their marketing campaigns and determine how different marketing tactics impact sales.

Media fragmentation and budget constraints, mms are becoming smarter, faster, and more granular. Tools like Google’s Meridian, a highly customizable modeling framework enable realtime transparent insights into cross channel performance. Second, AI agents as simplifiers. These will revolutionize data management enabling seamless integration of [00:02:00] multimodal information for business operations.

These chief Simplifier offices as Google dubs them simplify complex workflows and improve efficiency. This slots right into all the buzz and the hype and the talk in recent weeks about AI agents and how that is crucial in 2025. Third rise of shoppable video. Social commerce continues to grow with shoppable YouTube videos offering consumers seamless purchase options.

Brands are encouraged to integrate product feeds, turn ads into storefronts, and partner with creators. Fourth, mindful marketing for decision fatigue with consumers. Overwhelmed by information brands should prioritize hyper-relevant consented data to create meaningful, simplified marketing experiences that alleviate decision distress.

I was actually conscious shell when I was looking into this, all the buzz phrases that pop out in this decision. Distress. Great one, isn’t it? That’s a new one to me. Fifth AI driven app [00:03:00] marketing. The focus shifts from app installs to in-app engagement with AI powered features, enhancing user experiences and driving specific actions such as purchases and content discovery.

And sixth ethical and sustainable marketing. Ethical imperatives, including sustainability. Transparency in AI generated content and inclusivity are essential for long-term consumer trust and brand loyalty. So these trends reflect a shift towards more personalized, ethical, and technologically integrated marketing practices.

These are themes that are threaded through some of the conversations we’ve had in recent months in previous episodes of this podcast. You can take a look a bit more closely at some of these. One that strikes me as pretty key. I perhaps, based on my focus on what others have been talking about, AI agents as 2025 is the year forward, as I mentioned, is precisely this AI agents as [00:04:00] simplifies.

It strikes me, that is a nice phrase, chief simplify officers that you can really. Equate that to, as Google calls it, a representative advance transformative advancement in 2025, building on the foundation laid by large language models in 2024. So that’s one I think that we ought to be paying very close attention to.

What’s your thinking shell about these trends? I think they’re all spot on. I don’t disagree with any of them. The marketing mix model, I think is inevitable just based on the fact that this is data that’s available and it’s really just a matter of having the AI tools that can analyze it and, prompting them or setting them up to analyze effectively all of the different inputs against the output.

There’s so many different. Marketing elements that can be factored into these models. It can deal with time, it can deal with place, it can deal [00:05:00] with content. Just all kinds of different inputs and which ones are having impacts on the company’s sales. And the company’s bottom line yeah, is, it’s pretty clear that AI can simplify that and speed it up.

I the age agentic AI is what really excites me. These days. And as you probably know, Google launched Gemini 2.0, the first model in that family of models yesterday. And it is AgTech. That’s the whole point of the 2.0. And there was a post on LinkedIn. I don’t remember who shared this.

I copied it and. Saved it without noting who it was. I only saw it because our friend Jeremiah Ang was commenting on it. But it was just a list of some of the things that Agentic AI is going to do for you. And it’s things like imagine your acquisition agent runs 50 meme accounts simultaneously, testing hooks across different niches, including a thousand posts daily until it finds.[00:06:00]

What hits your research agent analyzes a hundred thousand tweets per hour. Finding unmet needs and feature requests that no one’s building for your content agent creates 200 unique hooks daily across X, LinkedIn, and TikTok. Learning from each response and optimizing for what works. And this list goes on and on.

The idea that you can assign. A task to an AI and it just goes out and does it, regardless of how many steps it takes and how much time it takes. Some of these things you’re probably looking at hours, days. Some of them could take weeks and it’ll come back to you if it has a question as it’s going through this process.

This is. Probably the most dramatic change that we’re going to see computing bring to work and life since the introduction of the pc. This is going to be huge and a among these trends that you listed this is the big one. This is the one that think people are gonna be latching onto.

Now think how quickly it’s going to [00:07:00] change is. Going to be a question of how quickly adoption happens in organizations and based on what we’re seeing so far. Probably not overnight, right? Because you’re still gonna have people dealing with the governance of these things and the security issues and the like.

But ultimately this is a really big deal. Yeah I Google talk about that at length and in fact the use of the word agentic. I saw a number of people talking last week and I was actually chatting with some folks on this very topic that’s predicted to be, you know how things are the word of the year for 2025.

I was curious myself even that I, I realized I knew the word and the use that’s being applied to now is apt for, its. Definition of, what is the word agentic. And according to many dictionaries including this one dictionary, which is actually the one that writes it in the most simple English something that behaves like an agent able to express or expressing agency or control of on one’s own behalf or on the behalf of another.[00:08:00]

That’s pretty good reference. I think there are though it surprised me, many who think it’s a made up buzzword. No, it’s not, no, it actually says it quite well. And a, an ai an agent ai, but Google there’s one man who contributed to this particular topic. Guillaume Rockets. He’s Google’s senior director of marketing for Google Cloud in emea, Europe, middle Eastern Africa.

He says, these intelligent systems, process multimodal information, that’s text, voice, images, video, and enabling them to reason, adapt and manage complex workflows. And in marketing, and this was a key focus of what Google’s talking about. They addressed the challenge of siloed data across disparate systems.

So AI agents simplify tasks like creating data lakes and streamlining operations. That’s an enterprise perspective. He gives some examples which I thought, yeah, this makes total sense. So many others will be doing this. Kingfisher he talks about, that’s an international home improvement company with 1900 stores owns brands like BNQ in the uk [00:09:00] screwfix integrated enterprise data with AI powered search tools.

And so created a system that improves access to critical information, both in customers and employees. Sounds very straightforward, that simple description, but. As you pointed out, and indeed as they referenced earlier these agents have characteristics that enable them on their own to reason, adapt and manage those workflows, and that you can’t underestimate how phenomenal that would be.

Set aside concerns people express, which I’ve seen being talked about on LinkedIn quite a bit. Is when they go outta control. This is some, this is a kind of a common strategy, not if, but when we have a problem. Be prepared for sorts of weird stuff to happen. But the reality is that the benefits are huge from this if you are able to implement and execute on this quite carefully.

Rock is Google’s Rockus says that ar ai agents are becoming increasingly accessible. To allow organizations to integrate advanced [00:10:00] intelligence seamlessly into their operations without overhauling existing systems. So they’re expected to play a central role in enhancing efficiency and adaptability across industries during 2025.

It’s a very optimistic view. I think you are right. There’s this, none of this is suddenly gonna happen, but you are seeing. The Kingfisher example being replicated and not being, horns being tooted, just casually you see references to this. If there’s now gathering momentum that is focused on these trends then you’ve got a lot more people paying attention to it, a lot more learning what others are doing.

And would like to hear a lot more about this during 2025, I’d say. Oh, absolutely. And going back to this, list of examples that this LinkedIn contributor shared. I’ll find out who it was. Credit him appropriately in the show notes. I just can’t get to it. Right now. But he makes the point in this post that what previously required 20 people and 2 million in salary now [00:11:00] happens automatically with 2000 in agent costs.

One founder becomes as powerful as a fund startup. Customer acquisition becomes predictable, growth becomes systematic. And I don’t think any of that is is incorrect. One thing to keep in mind about AG agentic AI is that it has computer vision. That means it can see your screen and it can take control of your mouse and your keyboard.

And it can sign into applications and. Create things and post things. One of the things that he offers here as an example is your content agent. Your community agent welcomes every new user personally. Handles support tickets in seconds and turns feedback into feature priorities.

Your email agent writes and tests 50 different sequences, personalizing every message based on user behavior. Your analytics agent spots trends before humans could adjusting strategy in real time. This is all stuff that you’re gonna be able to do. This doesn’t require [00:12:00] hiring an outside agency or.

Working with your IT team, these are things that, that, you know if you just take the time to learn how to use these and, if you have access to the tools, which, let’s face it. Yeah. Some of them are gonna be part of your $20 a month Gemini Pro account or your $20 a month Chachi PT Pro account.

You can start creating these agents and running them. So. The benefits that you’re gonna accrue from this in terms of your own productivity and the efficacy of your efforts is, it’s to be right there on a plate in front of you yeah. It’s vital to learn this.

We talked when OpenAI first released Chat, GT 3.0 that, uh. People are worried about whether this is going to take their job and the standard answer was no, it’s not going to take your job. But somebody know who knows how to use it will. That’s more true now than ever with the rise of the agents.

Because if it can do the work of [00:13:00] 10 people that took 40 hours before you don’t wanna be one of those 10 people. You wanna be the one who’s controlling this. Yeah. Yeah. I’m sure we’ll see that kind of concern being articulated more and more during 2025. But I’m equally sure that we are gonna hear more from companies experiments.

We’ll hear what they’re getting, and they’re likely to be the large enterprises more than not. More often than not. But I would see. News emerging more than we’ve seen on the on the professional services side of businesses such as finance definitely communication, advertising, public relations, et cetera.

I’m intrigued to know something I read last week, and I didn’t bookmark it unfortunately, so I can’t remember which company it was talking about, was an experiment on an employee communication. Using AI agents on a limited scale in one division of this company. We’re gonna hear lots about that, I’m sure.

It’s all good. I think [00:14:00] though, the thing I would pay attention to is amongst the critiques and the critics, as it were, is the ones that are really informed opinion rather than. Would you call it worse than click bait, attention grabbing, negative stuff. We’re gonna see a lot of that too. So misinformation as I would describe that.

So latching onto the people who are informed. And I’m hoping that we’re gonna see more public speaking about these events, seminars, webinars, you name it, on the progress of all of this. Not from, just from the likes of Google, ’cause I’m sure we’ll gonna see lots of that, but from people actually at the coalface.

Implementing this stuff. So I’m keeping a close eye on LinkedIn, in particular, what people are saying there about this kind of topic. But I agree with you that this is the big one of all the ones that Google mentioned the mms, I think are key shoppable video. I’m not convinced about that, but I’ve not looked into it.

That’s. To me haven’t, isn’t that what we’ve been seeing all along? They talk about YouTube [00:15:00] and I’m sure that’ll play a big rubble. What about some of the other players, TikTok being one notwithstanding the potential of them not being able to be used in the US sometime quite soon. Newer ones, niche.

Video channels are emerging. So mindful marketing this phrase for decision and fatigue and decision distress. Yeah. The people are overwhelmed, so they need hyper-relevant data that absolutely is the case. So if that, we see that. I improving in 2025. That’ll be a damn good thing. I would say AI driven app marketing.

So shifting from app installs to in-app engagement. Yeah. So not just go and install our app. It’s what does it give you when you have done that? So focus on the, you’ve got it. This is what it’ll do for you. So AI featured AI powered features. I saw something the other day. I have a Samsung phone running every.

Everything’s the latest versions of everything. And I keep now getting these emails from Samsung about check out this AI feature in your Galaxy phone. [00:16:00] And I’ve been experimenting with some of it, and some of it is, whoa, really interesting. Others is okay, if I was a gamer, I’d really be interested, but I’m not.

Point is though that these things are happening. So the ethical and sustainable marketing, that to me fits right into the thing we’ve talked about quite a bit. Which is precisely that ethical approaches to business that people are interested in doing business with, an organization that has an ethical approach, a sustainable marketing.

Absolutely no more. I read a story the other, just the other day about a vegetable or a fruit grown in I think Argentina. It might, was a South American country that’s then air freighted to Thailand for processing and wrapping and packaging, and then shipped back or to the US for selling in supermarkets.

That to me is insane. Think of the carbon emissions apart from else, but the inefficiency of that. Oh, I guess it’s the most cost effective way currently to do that. But is it sustainable? No, it’s not. Is it ethical? Arguably, I probably say it probably isn’t. So [00:17:00] those are now issues in the midst of all this.

So maybe agent AI or AI agents as chief simplifier officers will play an even bigger role in businesses. I remember being in a gift shop in Hawaii and looking at a box of chocolate covered macadamia nuts and seeing that they were packaged in Torrance, California. So they shipped to the macadamia nuts, grown in Hawaii to California.

They put the chocolate on it there packaged it up and sent it back to Hawaii to be sold in the. Probably the most cost effective way of doing it, but sustainability, ethical, et cetera. Sustainability, yeah. When it comes to sustainability and decision quality and things like that I, again, I think the agen AI is going to play a huge role here.

Because if you look at the decision quality and decision fatigue, think people, the way people are thinking about that now is based on the chatbot AI implementations that we see where you can share some data with it and it’ll do some analysis. I think [00:18:00] that’s great, but I think that it can also, perform the tasks that the communicator or the marketer has been assigned to do or needs to do.

From the outset with guidance from the marketer rather than just, yeah. Oh, I’m at this stage now where I need to analyze some data. Just start at the beginning of the project and tell the agent to do it, and then you can make adjustments along the way. You can tell it to check in. Each key milestone so that you can assess what’s done and ask it to make adjustments if necessary.

But, using the agents in these situations I, I think that’s what’s gonna turbocharge. All of this stuff, not just pouring more data in and doing the analysis that we’ve been able to do for the last couple of years. Yeah, I agree. Looking forward to 2025 in that case. Yep.

No question. And that will be a 30 for this episode of for immediate release.

The post FIR #439: Agentic AI Tops Digital Trends for 2025 appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the complexities of pricing strategies for agency engagements.

They explore whether agencies should charge more upfront for initial work, the importance of consistent revenue, and creative approaches to managing client expectations and financials.

The conversation emphasizes understanding client perceptions and the necessity of knowing one’s financials to ensure profitability.[read the transcript]

The post ALP 253: Should your agency charge new clients a startup fee? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Among the many post-election analyses flooding media channels are reports that mainstream media and social media wielded far less influence than they have in the past. Instead, influencers and podcasts held sway. In this short midweek FIR episode, Neville and Shel break down the reports and discuss the impact on communicators far beyond the election and politics.

Links from this episode:

• Borkowski Media Trends: US Election Special
• Donald Trump’s America: Reflections on a Country in Flux – NevilleHobson .com
• Trump’s Win Cemented It: New Media Is Leaving the Old Guard Behind
• How AI shaped the 2024 election: From ad strategy to voter sentiment analysis
• Victorious Trump campaign spent far less on social media than in 2020

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, November 25.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #434: Podcasts Defeat Mainstream Media in 2024 U.S. Election appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this FIR Interview, Shel Holtz and Neville Hobson speak with Monique Zytnik, a business communicator and author of Internal Communications in the Age of Artificial Intelligence. Monique delves into the transformative impact of AI on internal comms, highlighting the need for experiential, audience-centered engagement over a flood of generic content. This approach, she explains, responds to content overload and the need for more meaningful and strategic engagement.

On the topic of authenticity, Monique shares that while AI and outsourced content can support communication efforts, leaders should ultimately take responsibility for the content shared under their names to maintain trust and credibility. Her insights underscore the importance of genuine involvement and accountability in today’s fast-paced, content-saturated world.

The conversation also explores:

• Strategic Trends in internal communication, including the shift toward more integrated, external-facing internal messages and the rapid evolution of workplace dynamics.
• Leadership in Scaled Communication – Monique discusses the need for leaders to understand scaled communication to better support employees through rapid changes.
• Emerging Technologies – We discuss VR, blockchain, and mixed reality, and their potential to bring immersive, authentic experiences to internal communication.

Monique Zytnik’s expertise in AI-driven communication provides an invaluable perspective on the evolving role of internal comms in an AI-powered era.

About Our Conversation PartnerMonique Zytnik is an award-winning, global internal communication leader based in Berlin, Germany and author of Internal Communication in the Age of Artificial Intelligence. She has worked internationally, presented on communication best practices at world conferences, and guest-lectured at universities.

Her campaigns have been recognised by Gartner, Mumbrella CommsCon, and the Digital Communication Awards. She regularly shares her knowledge through industry publications and podcasts.

She is currently the Chair of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) EMENA Region.

Follow Monique on LinkedIn

Links From This Interview

• Monique Zytnik (website)
• Internal Communications in the Age of Artificial Intelligence (book)
• The sweet spot* In the comms industry we still seem to have our noses firmly stuck into large language models (ChatGPT) and other generative AI such as video… (LinkedIn post)

The post Trends, AI and Authenticity in Internal Comms with Monique Zytnik appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Few communication disciplines are as challenging as executive communication. These professionals ensure that organizational leaders communicate effectively, whether making a speech or delivering testimony to a governmental body. In the November 2024 installment of Circle of Fellows, our panel will explore executive communication challenges like rebuilding institutional trust in an era of widespread credibility loss, working closely with executives whose time is limited, and helping executives communicate effectively during a crisis. Learn how seasoned communicators navigate these complexities while avoiding communication failures that can escalate into PR disasters. Our panel of Fellows will share proven strategies for ensuring consistent communication among all members of an executive team, helping executives communicate the “why” behind decisions, and making good apologies when needed.

Shel Holtz moderates the panel, which will begin at noon ET on Thursday, November 21. Panelists include Alice Brink, Juli Holloway, Mary Ann McCauley, and Bish Mukherjee. If you join us for the live stream, you can ask questions and share observations in real-time. The panel will also be available as a video replay and audio podcast.

About the panel:

Alice Brink is an internationally recognized communications consultant. Her firm, A Brink & Co., works with businesses and non-profits to clarify their messages and communicate them in ways that change people’s minds. Her clients have included Shell Oil Company, Sysco Foods, and Noble Energy. Before launching A Brink & Co. in Houston in 2004, Alice honed her craft in corporate settings (including The Coca-Cola Company, Conoco, and First Interstate Bank) and in one of Texas’ largest public relations firms, where she led the agency’s energy and financial practices. Alice has been active in IABC for over 30 years, including as chapter president, district director, and Gold Quill chair. She is the vice-chair of the IABC Academy.

Juli Holloway is an Indigenous communications practitioner specializing in professional communication in Indigenous contexts. Throughout her career, Juli has been fortunate to work with First Nations and Indigenous organizations in British Columbia and across Canada to support transformative change for First Nation communities and people through strategic communications and community engagement.

Juli is the communications advisor at the Tulo Centre of Indigenous Economics. She leads communications, designs, and delivers a communications curriculum in university-accredited programs designed to advance Indigenous economic reconciliation. She is also an associate faculty member at Royal Roads University, where she teaches in the MA in Professional Communications program. In 2022, she earned the Outstanding Associate Faculty Award for Teaching Excellence in the MA Programs in 2022 for her innovative pedagogical methods. Juli is Haida and Kwakwaka’wakw and has been a guest on the traditional lands of the Secwépemc for 17 years. She belongs to the Skidegate Gidins, an eagle clan from the village of Skidegate on Haida Gwaii, and the Taylor (nee Nelson) family originating from Kingcome Inlet, home of one of the four tribes of the Musgamagw Dzawada̱ʼenux̱w.

Mary Ann McCauley is an independent consultant with extensive experience in nonprofits as staff, on boards, and as a consultant. Strategic planning for nonprofit organizations is her focus. Mary Ann takes a practical approach that results in achievable goals. Her experience includes working closely with executive directors, their staffs, and boards to help their organizations communicate and operate more effectively as a result of working on their business plans.

Bish Mukherjeeis an advisor in marketing, media, public relations, and branding with over 40 years in the profession. He is the president of Misha Network. He did award-winning work for the Reserve Bank, BSES, Colgate-Palmolive, and Alstom. He has organized corporate events for the Queen of England, the British Prime Minister, and the French President. Bish has anchored a fortnightly TV show on Bombay TV. He was featured on Australia’s “Sixty Minutes.” Bish has taught advertising and PR. He is an executive board member of the Indo-Australian Chamber of Commerce and is a PRCI Hall of Fame inductee; he also serves on the board of advisors of the Public Relations Council of India, from which he received a lifetime achievement award in 2019. Bish served on the editorial board for the house magazine of the Reserve Bank of India., and sub-edited several volumes of the NSW Compensation Court Reports and the Dust Diseases Tribunal in Australia. He has been conferred the Lifetime Achievement Award and Hall of Fame recognition from the Public Relations Council of India. In IABC, Bish was president of IABC India, and he started seven international chapters as director of the Asia Pacific region.

The post Fellows Will Explore Executive Communications in November Circle appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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It’s business as usual in their 250th episode, as Chip and Gini continue to share their unvarnished opinions.

At the risk of this being their last episode, they have once again chosen to tell you what you’re doing wrong as an agency owner.

The hosts share specific examples of agency owners breaking or ignoring rules that they don’t like — or that clients may pressure them to bypass.

They talk about compliance, ethical practices, and risk management for agency owners. They discuss the ramifications of behaviors such as unauthorized account sharing, misclassification of contractors, and copyright violations.[read the transcript]

The post ALP 250: Are you playing with fire as an agency owner? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Blogs have been with us for 30 years, which qualifies as “something old.” In this long-form episode of FIR for October, we’ll examine the state of the oldest social media category. We’ll also examine the state of generative Artificial Intelligence, which has been around, for all practical purposes, since November 2022, which makes it “something new.”

In this episode, we’ll also explore Reddit’s potential as a channel for government agencies and businesses to engage with stakeholders during a crisis and which agencies and brands are already there. Intuit’s chief communication officer didn’t like the direction a podcast interview with his CEO took, so he demanded the podcast trim the parts he didn’t like. Was he justified? The news media has gained a reputation for clickbait, but it recently took a dark turn. And, executives justify their return-to-office push by citing the need for greater collaboration and connection among employees. But does having everyone in the office produce those results? We’ll look at the research.

In his Tech Report, Dan York (joined by a special guest) shares details of a VC investment round for Bluesky, and how competitors like Mastodon reacted.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, November 25.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Links from this episode:

• Is Reddit the Future of Crisis Communications?
• From the technology community on Reddit: Intuit asked us to delete part of this Decoder episode – we declined
• Intuit Asks The Verge To Delete Part Of Interview With Its CEO; The Verge Declined
• Katherine Ross (@byKatherineRoss) on X (on the Intuit podcast episode)
• Streisand effect (Wikipedia)
• 2024 Blogging Survey: Trends and Insights from 12,000+ Bloggers Over 11 Years
• The milking of Liam Payne’s death for clicks won’t do Reach plc any good long-term
• What Employers Get Wrong About How People Connect at Work
• The State of AI Report (introduction)
• The State of AI Report
• Welcome to the State of AI Report 2024

Links from Dan York’s Tech Report:

• Bluesky Announces Series A to Grow Network of 13M+ Users
• Eugen Rochko (@Gargron@mastodon.social) (Mastodon’s founder responds)

Raw transcript:

[00:00:00] Hi everybody and welcome to episode number 433 of four immediate release, our long form episode for October, 2024. I’m She Holtz in Concord, California. And I’m Neville Hobson in Kruer Somerset in England. My new physical location as of two or three weeks ago, glad to be here. Kko, how do you spell that?

C-R-E-W-K-E-R-N-E. I never would’ve. Guess that in a million years. It’s a delightful part of southwest England. You’ve heard of Glastonbury? No doubt. That’s north of where I am. The English Channel South Coast is about 20 minutes to the south of me. , it’s a lovely part of the country. It rains a lot and I see tractors everywhere that I go.

Big ones ’cause farming country here. But we’re pleased to be here. And you have grandchildren there? Yeah. The family. That side of the family is here. All of them and the grandkids. I’ve seen more in the last week than I have in the last six months. It’s absolutely [00:01:00] delightful to be here for that reason.

Well, glad that you have finally made the move. I knew that was a long time coming. Yeah, it was. And I’m in my new, uh, in my new garden studio office. I’ll have something more to say about that in a blog post soon with photos. I hope indeed. And your move is one of the reasons we only had two short midweek episodes between the September long form episode and this one for October.

You have been moving house, as you say, in the uk. We just say moving. Yeah, and I have been away. I was at the Public Relations Society of America’s big annual icon conference the week before last. And this past week I was in Houston at a fascinating meeting of the construction communicators round table, an informal group of top communicators from about 20 of the nation’s [00:02:00] builders to get together , and talk about common communication issues.

And it was wonderful. I had a great time. I learned a lot. I should say I learned more there than I did at the PRSA conference. . It was absolutely worth going and, , it’s just been a busy month , for both of us. It, but I’m certainly glad to be back at the microphone. Me too. Yeah, me too.

When we recorded the, , I’ll mention this in a minute. When we get to the episode review, the one episode we did in between the beginning of October and today, I had moves, but I didn’t have any of my normal day-to-Day equipment, set up the computers, the microphones, nothing. So I recorded on a laptop, , with earbuds.

Uh and would you believe the, , laptop microphone? And when I listened to the recording after it, the LD wasn’t that bad. Did you have to do any editing with that? It was a considerable amount of editing. Your audio was, fine. It was absolutely [00:03:00] usable. But it did sound like it was coming through a third rate microphone, and I ran it through the Script’s Studio sound feature.

This is one of their Yeah. AI features. And it came out sounding wonderful. Yeah. This is an amazing, I had no idea that it could take, a telephone call sounding recording. Yeah. And make it sound like you had been sitting at a $400 microphone. A wonderful, that’s to hear Wonderful feature on the script.

Good to hear. Good to hear. I did think, hoping that it was great quality original recording, but now I know that Dell’s laptop microphone’s are crap, basically. I gotta tell you, when I listened to yours, I said, it’s all right. It’s a short midweek episode. It’s, yeah, it’s fine.

I had one of those ones where. When we signed into Riverside, , to do the recording, I didn’t notice that the microphone had defaulted to the one that’s baked into the camera and the audio wasn’t that good. , and if I had known that running it through Studio Sound, the [00:04:00] script would’ve fixed it. I.

Absolutely would’ve done that. That’s good to know that, Cheryl, I must admit. Good. So these two episodes that we have done since the September monthly episode, four, three oh 4 31 was on October the second. , we dove into PR weeks, the Evolution of Influence Report, exploring their dynamic shifts and how.

PR professionals exert influence in today’s fast changing landscape. It was a good discussion we had with that one. And then jump forward just over two weeks to October the 18th, and episode 4 32, the one that you had to do the audio editing with my recording. , CEOs and other senior executives are increasingly expected to nurture a presence on social media, especially LinkedIn, which has seen a 35% increase in c-suite professionals in the US over the last five years.

That’s where communicators need to step in. We said helping leaders find the most comfortable way to engage authentically online. That’s a key word there. Authentic. So that was [00:05:00] a good discussion. I actually did a follow up. Blog post myself, , with some further thoughts on that. But, in my mind, the authenticity is the kind of paramount word.

It’s worth a listen to that episode. It was pretty good, wasn’t it? And I know we got some comments somewhere amongst all this, haven’t we? We did, , got two comments on episode 4 32, 1 from Kerry Sullivan who said, leaders need to be present in order to attract and retain talent. They also need to write and show up in their own voice language is how we recognize one another.

Finally, if a leader isn’t confident enough to show up online, they’re probably not resilient enough to lead through anything more complex than a steady state business. And then we had a comment from Monique Nik who said, , many execs and public figures I know get others to do their content and approve it themselves, or only post once a month or so in, in a team photo.

Do you think it matters who actually creates the content or only that it aligns with the brand and is seen as authentic? So it’s an [00:06:00] interesting question from there’s Monique, there’s a whole topic. We could discuss that and maybe we will. With Monique, right? We might talk about that with Monique.

This is a great opportunity to let everyone know that this coming Tuesday, we are going to be speaking with Monique for an FIR interview. If you’re not already subscribing to the FIR interviews feed head over to FIR podcast network.com and subscribe. You don’t wanna miss this one. Uh she is among other things, the author of a new book, called Internal Communications in the Age of Artificial Intelligence.

So looking forward to that conversation. We do have one additional comment. This is from an episode that goes back before our September episode. Sally Gch left a comment on this, and just by way of context, I should say that, as part of , the topic for that episode, rather than do the I [00:07:00] ident myself, that’s the little.

32nd introduction to the episode. At the very, very beginning, I wrote it and then had 11 labs produce my cloned voice. Reading it, it was apropos to the episode, and Sally said, as soon as the intro started, I thought Shell’s voice sounds different than something is off. And finally, is that ai, my brain got almost too wrapped up in trying to figure out what was wrong.

To take in what you were saying, it bothered me in a way that the synthesized voice of Google Maps doesn’t, and that in turn makes me wonder whether generative audio and video needs to be more real or less real to avoid the uncanny valley. , and it is actually an interesting point if it tries too hard to be really authentic.

Is that too distracting? Does it need to be? Inauthentic enough, obvious enough that it was [00:08:00] AI produced, that you go, oh, it’s an AI voice. Okay, I can now sit back and pay attention to what’s being said rather than, that’s really weird. Or discomforting, whatever. But, , it’s, it is an interesting point , that Sally makes.

Also wanna let everybody know that we have a new circle of fellows available on the FIR Podcast Network. This was an episode dealing with change management participants included ZORA artists, PRI Bates, Todd Hattori, and Cindy Schmid with Brad Whitworth. Moderating this one because I was at the PRSA conference and the next.

Circle of Fellows is scheduled for November 21st. It’ll be at 1130 in the morning, , Eastern Time. This is on executive Communication and leadership. Alice Brink, Bish Mukherjee, Julie Holloway and Maryanne McCauley will be the panelists for this one. And I will be moderating again, back in the [00:09:00] moderator’s chair.

And, , it should be , a great conversation. And if you’re able to participate live in real time, we love engaging with those people who are on the call with us. , but if not, it’ll be available as both a video replay and an audio podcast here on the FIR podcast Network. And that means that it is time to jump into our stories of the month, which we will do with vigor right after this, when there have been.

Natural disasters or other things that governments have needed to communicate. It became sort of a defacto rule that you would do some of that communication on Twitter. This was the place that Breaking News was communicated, and even if they didn’t have the audience that say, a Facebook has. They did have the attention of the media, and this tended to help [00:10:00] get the word out.

You had people who were looking for breaking news, but you also had journalists there who could turn it around and present it through their channels. So what are we doing today? Imagine that you represent a government trying to communicate critical information after natural disasters. We’re talking about the essentials, how to apply for FEMA assistance, updates on recovery efforts, basic safety information.

You would think press releases, press conferences, and social media posts. In today’s landscape, though, those channels aren’t necessarily. Going to be completely effective. Traditional media audiences have grown more and more fragmented and polarized. TV viewers are divided, and people’s social media feeds are clogged with a mix of algorithm filtered content and distractions.

The government’s posts on Facebook might not even make it to the people who need them. Instagram stories have limited reach for this purpose, and on TikTok or [00:11:00] X, which if you’ve been following, is what they’re calling Twitter these days with fewer people and less revenue. Anyway, these messages get lost in the noise, drowned out by conspiracy theories or just never seen or ignored well.

Reddit has stepped in to the rescue. This might not seem like the most usual platform for this kind of content, but it’s increasingly significant. In response to hurricanes, Helene and Milton, the White House chose Reddit as an outreach medium. Posts appeared in subreddits like R North Carolina and our Georgia aimed at directly communicating with communi communities in need.

Now, I know Reddit’s not the typical channel for a government to use to communicate. It’s known for its niche communities. Canid exchanges, occasional brand disaster. Ask me anything that go awry. But Reddit does something, , rare. In today’s online world. [00:12:00] It offers a level of genuine human engagement moderated by community members and not by algorithms.

The shift highlights a move toward, , thinking about Reddit, which has been a last resort. Up until this point, subreddits like these let basic communication that might otherwise get swallowed up on traditional media outlets happen. And this isn’t just about governments. Take Sonos for example. This is the smart speaker company.

they. Issued, , an app update that caused all kinds of problems. It really upset a very loyal community of customers and a Sonos employees started posting regular updates on an unofficial subreddit to engage and appease these frustrated customers. It worked well enough that eventually the CEO stepped in, showing up where the audience was engaged and paying attention.

So is Reddit the future for crisis communication? , [00:13:00] probably not the way you would think, but it’s becoming a really important back channel. Where real unfiltered information can be shared. It’s not without issues. Reddit’s reliance on unpaid community moderators is under strain. There’s actually been something of an uprising of sub redditers due to some pricing decisions that the company made.

There has been an influx of bots and spammers that threatening to erode the authenticity that gives it value, but it still stands out as one of the few online spaces where important messages can still reach and engage audiences. So for us as communicators, platforms like Reddit, may. Soon play a bigger role in crisis communication and brand management strategies, especially as traditional channels struggle with engagement and trust issues.

So if you’re not engaging on Reddit, maybe it’s time to start. It’s an interesting. Development. I think, I mean I’ve been on Reddit at least 15 years, [00:14:00] not very active there. I participate in maybe 15, 16 different, subreddits of things that are, , mostly personal interest, but a couple of business related things.

And I’ve always found it, , useful. , I’m conscious too that some I visited and had been part of. I’m no longer simply because of the awfulness of some of the people in those places. So this is, you mentioned the risks. Yeah. There are significant risks. if you went into Reddit in a major way, I would say, or had something that was controversial that you dunno what you’re gonna get.

, is that different to others? Well, I think it is. And maybe not Twitter, X whatever. , but it certainly is, so you’ve gotta take that into account. Isn’t it true though that, , any argument about is this the right platform? Is almost wholly dependent on, do you understand your audience? , is that where they are?

Or is that where people are that you would like to get to know? So you’ve gotta have those questions down Pat. I think, , the White House one’s interesting. , the example that, the article that [00:15:00] I, , that you linked to talks about those hurricanes, , that, , I’d actually love to know why they decided this as opposed to continuing using X.

, did they not feel, that given the audience they’re trying to reach this very specifically in that part of the us, , maybe they felt, I dunno what they felt, , X couldn’t deliver. I don’t know that they did stop using X. They might have added Reddit to. Post on X. Yeah, that’s, it’s possible. I don’t know, maybe they didn’t, but No, sure.

But that’s possible, isn’t it? But the other example you mentioned, Sonos, I found really interesting. , particularly di diving deeper into the article. , it mentions, , that this guy who was, , the kind of representing, , Sonos Keith from Sonos is his handle, , was diligently, dutifully and patiently according to the article, , posting on the brand’s unofficial subreddit.

, after that app update you mentioned, I remember reading about that update. It [00:16:00] really did en rage, people with genuine rage, not internet rage. This was real stuff. Unhappy, unhappy. He was there daily doing messaging, all that stuff. So they hated the company, but they didn’t hate Keith and he carried on and engaged with people.

Next thing, , the company’s CEO headed over to where Keith was. And had a great time because of Keith. Now that is fascinating. So it reminds me of the story we talked about maybe some years ago, shell, about the, kid who, what was it? Sherwood Williams or the big paint company and he was doing stuff there with the imaging and creating graphic.

They fired him. So he was picked up by a competitor. ‘ , ’cause outside the control of , the control freaks at the company basically. So this interest, well let’s go further back than remember. Remember Frank Eliason with Comcast Cares on That’s right. Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, in the other days, unsanction, he was just doing it on his own.

Yeah. And he ended up with a team of what, 11 or 12 employees early days. [00:17:00] This is recent and yet conceptually I think it’s not different. , so that, well you argue that wasn’t a crisis per se. , so I, I would say the question , is not so much for crisis communication specifically, or that it could be for that the future crisis communication, a future, maybe it’s your overall engagement, whether it’s in a crisis or not.

So we’ve got the examples of a crisis. So, , to me it’s like if you could answer the questions, do you know your audience? Is this where they are? Then that itself would be a reason why you wanna be there. Or maybe in the case of the White House, we don’t know if that’s our audience, but we do know certain types of people we wanna reach.

Probably are there. So let’s go there. I mean, maybe, I dunno, I’m guessing here. EEE Exactly. If there’s a subreddit for a state or a region, yeah. You’ve gotta believe that some people are there and if this is where this information is being doled out, other people will spread the word. You can go to other communities and say, Hey, there’s some really good information being shared in [00:18:00] the Georgia subreddit.

You should come over here and partake of that. Yeah. So it, it could build the audience. But going back to what the article said, I really believe it’s the fact that , it’s community moderated and there’s no algorithm. So it’s an opportunity to get the word out and engage with the people who care about this information without the platform getting in the way of that communication.

Yeah. That makes total sense. I agree. Good example. I think, so we have an interesting story here that is about. Well, egregiousness is one word that comes to mind. , stepping over a line, , from a communicator’s point of view, this is a story of, , Intuit, , and a podcast and someone wanting to erase part of it after the recording that didn’t like it.

So this was a recent episode of The Decoder podcast that’s a publication of The Verge, , where Nle Patel, who’s the [00:19:00] editor in Chief of the Verge and host of decoder, interviewed Saan Zi. Who’s the CEO of the Global Financial Technology Platform? Intuit, the interview is especially notable due to a request after the recording from Intuit’s Chief Communications Officer Rick Heinemann.

To delete a portion of the discussion, the Verge refused the request. So the Verge believes Intuit’s request reveals the ethical considerations at the heart of its editorial standards and ethics is something they played a, they blew a big trumpet about. In the decoder episode, Gazi responded to questions about Intuits lobbying against simplified tax filing processes in the us.

Specifically, the Verge raised concerns over Intuits lobbying history, which aims to protect its paid service. TurboTax from direct competition with free government-led filing options. When questions turned to Intuits lobbying activities and history of misleading free, quote unquote tax filing claims, [00:20:00] Azis firmly denied the portrayal.

Following the interview, Intuit’s CCO Rick Heinemann labeled the exchange as inappropriate and demanded that the verge remove the contentious five minute segment. Citing raised voices and overlapping dialogue is distracting the vote. Refuse citing. Its strict editorial independence and commitment to transparency.

The publication maintains that interviews should remain unaltered to preserve journalistic integrity, and it saw no basis for the edit beyond potential discomfort over the pointed questioning. The segment ultimately add uncut, placing the issue of corporate influence on media and editorial ethics front and center.

As Nle Patel explained, the Verge follows a clear non-negotiable editorial policy focused on journalistic ethics, transparency, and accountability. It says its long maintained an ethical stance that prohibits interviewees or their representatives from reviewing, approving, or altering published content.

By [00:21:00] refusing to delete the segment, the Verge says it underscored its commitment to maintaining an unfiltered public record, which it viewed as particularly relevant in this case due to the public interest surrounding tax reform and Intuit’s influential lobbying efforts against simplified free tax filing options.

Their decision to release the verbatim transcript was a trapped a step towards total transparency. They said enabling the audience to form their own opinions on the contentious interaction. There are a number of issues with this that we could discuss for a while. For starters, is the intervention of Intuit CCO in demanding a deletion, an egregious step over a red line.

What’s your take? She. Yes, yes. It’s in the word greatest step over a red line. I can’t be any more unequivocal than this. He was wrong. , and the verge was right in this, , you agree to do an interview. On a podcast, that’s no different [00:22:00] than agreeing to do an interview with a reporter from a mainstream newspaper.

The only way you get to say you can’t use the information that was shared in that interview is if you get the agreement from the journalist at the beginning that this is off the record. And I can’t imagine that anybody doing a podcast would get an off the record agreement from the podcaster. I mean, imagine one of our interviewees.

Yeah. This, I’m, I’m happy to go on FIR interviews, but, , it’s gonna be off the record. Okay. Or on background, maybe. , no. there, there is absolutely no justification for this. And anybody who’s graduated from journalism school should understand this. I am astounded that somebody who has attained a chief communication officer level in an organization thinks that they could get away with nonsense like this.

It’s ridiculous. Yeah. , that, that was my, no, that was my thought as well. Shell, I’m thinking [00:23:00] the Verge, like many publications, , whether they’re so-called new media or traditional media doesn’t really matter. You have, , policies you publish about your standards, your terms and conditions of use, all that, , and nowadays is very common for publications, whether they’re mainstream media, social media, even.

Even business blogs, so that matter, still a publication go into some detail, , about their ethical approach and accountability and responsibilities, et cetera. So they have all that. It’s public, so it’s not like , the, these people did an opportunity to see it. , I’m wondering whether they had something as simple as a literary disclaimer form that the interviewee sites, , I remember, , business podcasts I’ve done for companies always have those for guests, which make it quite clear what the ground rules are different.

If, let’s say the Verge had published something that was totally wrong, , , if something had happened that it was totally wrong, that might have been different perhaps, but they didn’t. And I’m wondering whether, and again, we’ve only got the words of how it was written about the CCOs kind of [00:24:00] demanding they do this and it was stepping over the line and all that.

If, if he went in with that approach, no wonder they said. we can’t really say these words on a podcast, family podcast like this, but they dismiss that out of hand. Maybe if he tries to negotiate something, he may have got somewhere, but I doubt it. He, like you said, she surely he should have known better than to do this for goodness sake.

So that, that makes disappointed if someone in a senior role like that making something like this become then the story, which is what this is. , but totally wrong and you shouldn’t ever even try to think of doing some of that after the event. Unless, like you said, you’ve got agreement about something beforehand or it’s serious.

It’s, it really is a mistake and you can justify your intervention and try your hardest to get it changed. But this was ridiculous. A few thoughts. One, I agree if he had gone to decoder and said, gosh, I. The CEO’s kind of unhappy about that [00:25:00] last five minutes and is asked if it’s possible, or I’m gonna ask on his behalf if it’s possible to trim that off.

And they’re probably gonna say no, but you’re probably gonna get farther and maintain a better relationship if you make it a request rather than a demand you have no standing, no basis , for making a demand. Now, however, that this has become the story, every journalist dealing with the communications department at Intuit’s gonna go into it knowing that this is a possible outcome and they’re going to treat into it differently.

And yeah, probably not in a good way. So I could see that. You gotta wonder what he was thinking. Intuit’s a big company. They get coverage. They have clout. So yeah, I think this is gonna affect the perception of the public based on the way that the media reports on them as a result of this.

Yeah, one thing that struck me thinking it through was the fact that this request, , stemmed from a disagreement [00:26:00] over the portrayal of a lobbying practice practices and not from factual inaccuracies. That’s the key thing to me, highlights this kind of conflict between public relations interests and transparency of information that impacts consumers of this particular case.

So their desire into its desire to control damaging dialogue. That’s how I’m reading this, , points to the influence corporations are gonna seek to wield over media portrayal, which you shouldn’t do that. There is another issue here that amazes me and that is that nobody should have been surprised that this point of discussion came up.

People have been talking about this. John Oliver did a segment on this on last week, tonight, years ago. People know that Intuit lobbies to maintain the ability to make money from tax preparation software when most people would like the IRS to provide that [00:27:00] software free, to make it easy for them to file their taxes and.

He should be prepared. The CEO , should be prepared to address that question. Is he not media trained for heaven’s sake, right? if the CCO is upset about this, what he’s probably really upset about is that he hadn’t prepared his CEO to answer this question and engage in a conversation about it shouldn’t have been a surprise.

No. That exactly , is a point , that, , I was thinking about as you were saying those words. How briefed was he? , maybe they didn’t see this as serious, which is why the hell are you doing it? In that case, every interview that you do, particularly if you know you’ve got a skeleton that ain’t in the closet, it’s right out there that people are gonna be asked about.

Surely they should tell. What if they ask about this topic, Mr. CEO, here’s what you need to, well, you didn’t tell ’em what he’s gonna say. Look, here’s the pros and cons of this. Do you refuse to talk about it? No, you can’t do that. Is it one of those situations where you could say. The best person to talk about this is this person can go there or deflect it in some way, but you need [00:28:00] to be prepared.

and like you said, they obviously weren’t if he were media trained, he would’ve been able to take that question and say, let’s look at three reasons why this is a good thing. First of all, it’s a better product than what the IRS is ever going to be able to provide.

Second, third, you do the threes. And you bring it around back to your talking points and then the podcaster moves on. The interviewer moves on rather than making it contentious. , looking through that script, it, it, it seems to me that it was the CEO who started to take that off the rails a bit.

Yeah. He wasn’t prepared. No. , and that’s shocking. Really is, yeah. Neville, I know that you continue to do a fair amount of blogging. I do. I don’t, I haven’t had the time. My, my blog, , sits there. I cross post the monthly episodes of [00:29:00] FIR there and not much else, but there are plenty of people who are still blogging and you, and they are, , the basis of the 2024 blogging survey that was published by Andy Crestodina of Orbit Media published on LinkedIn, interestingly, as opposed to in a white paper downloadable report, , a microsite now it was a LinkedIn article.

, the surveys in its 11th year, it draws on insights from over 12,000 bloggers and offers a comprehensive look at evolving blogging trends, tactics, and results. It’s a really rich. Report for content marketers who are looking to understand what’s working in content strategy and, where their emerging challenges are.

So let’s take a look at the key takeaways I have. Eight of these. And Neville, I thought what I would do is go through ’em one at a time and get your thoughts on each one. [00:30:00] the first one deals with the traffic challenge and zero click platforms. A zero click platform would be something like perplexity, where you get the answer thanks to what somebody published on a blog, but you never have to click through to the blog in order to get it because Perplexity has given it to you.

, this is one of the most critical challenges bloggers are facing. Driving traffic is a key challenge. Only 20% of bloggers are reporting strong results driving traffic, and that’s down from 30% just five years ago now, the decline largely stems from platforms like Google and social media increasingly keeping users on their sites leading to a rise in zero click.

Content marketing expert, Rand Fishkin suggests that content marketers need to rethink what success looks like, shifting their focus from traffic volume to building loyal niche audiences through methods like gated content or newsletters. This zero click phenomenon is reshaping strategies, [00:31:00] encouraging marketing marketers to nurture smaller engaged communities rather than depending on high traffic numbers alone.

Your thoughts, Neville? I’m kind of different how I use my blog, , since I reboot, relaunched a thing effectively last July. I don’t do this for monetary gain. I don’t do this for, , a kind of strategic approach to engagement. Indeed, there’s no, you can’t comment anymore on my blog. I disabled commenting about four years ago actually.

I don’t, I have different focuses. I get this though. I do understand this. I don’t, I’m not bothered at all by zero click and at all. , I’m quite happy for people to read my content that shows up in a perplexity search or they get it because of Google. Even Google search. I’ve seen blog posts, I’ve written show up in Google results sometimes.

So what benefit do I get from that? It’s kind of like, , my content is out [00:32:00] there. , unlike the days you and I talked about many over a decade ago, if content scraping was a big thing back in the, , late. Teens, the late zeros, , late, what do you call it? The two thousands. , not too bothered about that.

Don’t, yeah, I don’t see it much these days actually. Zero cake doesn’t bother me, but I understand why it does concern others. And indeed, we’ve talked about this in a recent podcast episode, so I do understand that. I’m not concerned by that. If I were doing this. Wearing a hundred percent a business hat and seeking some kind of engagement or recognition or reward that might bother me where I would be concerned about the traffic.

I do pay attention to traffic, to Google Analytics, to rank math, which is one of the SEO tools that I use, and I do pay attention to that so that also they guide me in terms of some of the keywords I might use, but it’s not front of mind. I tend to write naturally. So I know many people like that. By the way.

some running business blocks too, a hundred percent business blocks, , have similar thinking. [00:33:00] So to me , that’s how you can demonstrate authenticity, which is a significant thing that I care a lot about, the authenticity of content that you come across. There’s no hidden agenda, and I have critics who tell me everyone’s got a hidden agenda.

I do not believe that. And to which they call me terribly naive still, but hey, I don’t care, to be honest, shall so This is. An issue without doubt. And , I don’t believe that it’s gonna end well for anyone who believes zero issue, a zero click is going to go away sometime soon. Or it doesn’t matter anymore if you are a business looking for results that way.

’cause it will matter. So what do you think of the alternatives that are suggested here? Like, , switching to, a Substack style newsletter or gating your content? Don’t, I don’t buy any of those, options at all, but might be different. If I wore a business hat Substack, I wouldn’t recommend to anyone to use Substack.

And that’s all to do with the behavior they have exhibited with extremist, , content. Right. , that’s why I [00:34:00] said a Substack style. Got it. Got it. Well, yeah. Okay. , I use, I have a newsletter. That’s actually, , just WordPress that, , you sign up and you get emailed Every time I publish a new post, that’s all it does, and I see interesting engagement from that newsletter that otherwise wouldn’t be the case.

And I don’t pimp anything or push anything I. It’s free. And I’m not making any money outta that. That’s fine. I’m quite happy with that. I think that is something though, to explore. I, I hear lots of people talking about, I’m gonna do a newsletter and monetize my content. I remember using that phraseology 15 years ago and it produced results back then.

I mean, you and I had sponsors in the early days of podcast that, , was, worthwhile. , now today things are very different. , you have to be focused, I think, more on authenticity than ever before. There are so many people writing stuff. Much of it is drl Again, that’s subjective. I then look at the click bait stuff, like the story that, , in this episode we’re gonna talk about, , [00:35:00] that is, is everywhere you look.

How do you tell if something is real? , that’s another big issue. So, , these are all issues. She seems to me, did I answer your question by the way? Did that answer your question? Oh, yes, it did. Thank you. ,we’ll move on to the second key takeaway, , increase the increasing role of artificial intelligence and content creation.

, AI has become mainstream in blogging. 80% of bloggers are using it in various stages of content creation. , most are using it for idea generation headlines, outlines only a small percentage are relying on it for complete drafts of their posts, but the impact is mixed. While it boosts efficiency, it hasn’t yet translated into significantly higher engagement.

There are voices in the industry like Christopher s Penn and Mark Schafer who are pointing out that bloggers are navigating a steep learning curve, experimenting at this point in ways that accelerate their processes while [00:36:00] preserving authenticity and unique voice. I, I do assume you’re using AI at some level , in your blogging.

Oh, , utterly, , to generate ideas, to summarize articles. I don’t use it. I tried it. I don’t use it as I see some people talking about it, which is to literally ask it question, give me a good idea. I can blog about this topic. I don’t do that. , I, when I tried it, I found every single thing I tried with that is absolutely not what I would write about and the way in which it proposed I write.

So no, I don’t waste my time on that. But ideas, yes, in terms of, , an idea I’ve already got. How to flesh it out further, I might ask it. I often ask chat, GBT plus. a kind of a, here’s this thing, ask me questions about this. , what I’d like you to do is come up with a way in which I can talk about X on this topic.

And I found that helpful in every case that on how I use it, these are idea generators, hence generative ai, not creators of the overall [00:37:00] content that I’m gonna publish. I have yet to publish an article except one or two, which I’ve mentioned on my blog as part of my experimentation wholly generated by the ai.

And boom, there it’s, nah, that, that’s not what you should be doing. And looking at some of the metrics here, I find quite interesting. , the biggest percentage I see in the, , list given about how Blogger is using AI was, is 40, 54% using AI to generate ideas. And that’s 11% since the last time they did the survey.

Yeah, that, that makes sense. 40% to write outlines. , I’ve done that a couple times and. , not as good as, , as saying, for instance, to chat GPT and even perplexity sometimes, , write a draft of this topic, 400 words or 600 words, , in a couple of paragraphs, , or, , actually, I don’t tend to use the word, paragraph.

Let’s say give word counts. And that often, particularly in the case of chat, GPT, steers me in the direction that , I decide I want to go to you. Arguably, you could say if you [00:38:00] hadn’t done that, you’d have had to go in a different direction possibly. I would’ve had to think of all that myself, which is what I used to do.

I don’t see this any different at all, by the way, as using a colleague to bounce ideas off, , or, , as the phraseology goes, getting the intern to write a draft, this to me is no different to that. Happens to be. A bit of software. Yeah. I have baked AI into various parts of my article writing or post writing workflow.

So it’s become a habit that at this stage I’m going to use ai. , one of the things that I’ve done a couple of times is I have taken my notes, , from an interview and I, I do use a note taking app. I use auto ai, but in, in these cases, I didn’t, I was sitting there with my laptop interviewing somebody.

This is for a personality profile, and I found I just didn’t have the time to write this feature article. So I took my notes and I gave them, I, I think it was Claude, but I don’t remember for sure which one I was using. [00:39:00] And I said, here are my notes from this interview with this person. Here’s a little bit more information.

, write a first draft of, , an employee profile. , and it did a surfaceable job. I would say that I rewrote it. I’m not gonna say that I edited it heavily. It was a complete rewrite, but it took me probably half the time it would’ve taken to write it from scratch. It did not sound like a, nobody would look at this and go, oh, AI wrote this.

Because like I say, it was a complete rewrite. I don’t know how long I would spend on this, but the, I get that the longer you write it and the greater the depth of your content, the more it mentions you get better results. I don’t see what they mean by better results. Do they mean by more clicks, inbound links, , amplification, or what?

What does better result mean, do you think? I’m presuming it means more. Views and higher levels of engagement. I don’t have that data, but those are the results that I would consider to be better as a blogger. Yeah. [00:40:00] Yeah. , yeah, I guess so. what would I think about? , thinking about a couple of posts I’ve written recently, one of which got significant attention and sharing.

, it was a topic that seemed to resonate and some key people had shared it, and that drove more traffic to it. So that wasn’t a designed approach. If I write this way about this topic and they targeted to that kind of person, I didn’t do any of those things. I just write, , as I said in the description of my blog when I relaunched it.

This is a place to think out loud and get other people’s thoughts too. not necessarily in conversation here to spread the word. If. But there’s no strategy behind it for me. , so I’m not sure what that means. , better results either way. I get the connection between the longer, , your longer articles that are well thought through, hence the four hours, , likely.

, and I often find that when I’ve written a post from, say it’s had input from one of the ais in terms of structure, , [00:41:00] and looked at the first draft that I’d written and often do that and ask it, critique this, suggest how I could improve this. Something simple like that. I don’t give it to complex, requests.

Always comes back with, at least here are four things you could do. And often they’re typical things like, more subheadings or add some images or something to break it up. , but often not always the you think, oh, that’s a damn good suggestion that leads then to me to do something more. So I get, I sometime have spent four hours, but my time typically is a couple of hours.

, if that , on a 900 to 1200 word post, I tend not to count too much, but I think, and so what do I get out of it? , I look at the traffic, from, , Google Analytics in particular and see this post has got that much attention. Fine. , rarely are they comments. These days, except on some social networks, but that’s often not to the post.

, that’s if I’ve amplified it particularly on LinkedIn. [00:42:00] Although I do find, , threads is actually working pretty well in that regard too. But I’m actually not doing it for that reason. She, understand obviously, people, , publishing from a business point of view are doing it that way. I’m not, but I, I get why that’s important.

So I think that’s a good point to make, to show, to outline how long the typical blog post and that relationship between length and time spent, you can connect to better results, I guess. Yeah. It also says to me that there’s a thirst out there for longer form. Content if longer blog posts are producing better results.

But let’s move on to the fourth key takeaway, which is, , around blogging frequency and SEO impact. It’s interesting that while posting frequency has dropped, quality remains high. Fewer bloggers publish multiple times a week with a growing trend toward monthly updates, which, in the early days of blogging, people would’ve said, ah, you’ll never gain any traction posting once a month.

, but it remain. SEO [00:43:00] remains, , vital as consistency and freshness contribute to better ranking and traffic performance. Madi French and SEO strategist highlights the importance of maintaining regular updates and aligning the search intent to achieve visibility, especially in competitive spaces. Are you paying any attention to SEO.

not to the extent that this suggests, no, , not really. , but I think, , it is interesting about , the, the correlation and effort and performance you published more often and more likely to report strong results, quote unquote strong results. Yeah. That makes sense to me. Monthly blogging is more popular, but less effective than ever.

Reminds me of Richard Amo when he started his 6:00 AM blog. It was once a week, , every Monday at 6:00 AM his time. , I dropped into, , this year at times one, two posts per month. And then sometimes, I think it must have been August the, so-called Quiet Month, in which case probably the worst time to publish content you want people to get at.

I think I publish like six posts. I try, I tell myself, publish one a week. [00:44:00] It actually turns out about once every two weeks that I publish something, but I don’t feel any pressure to do that. So I have a long list. I’ve always had this shell. You’ve, you are the same, I’m sure. I’ve got a long list of ideas to blog about.

There’s like 20 items in there. I never get to half of them. You never know. Something might spark. So I use Evernotes, , particularly to note down topics I’d like to write about and usually it helps. , biweekly is the minimum for content performance. This, , this report says, , publishing 10 to 12 posts per year won’t cut it.

I’m sure that’s true, but, , I get skeptical about, stuff that talks about longer content, is therefore equal to greater success and spending more time on longer content. And then you’ve got this, , biweekly, not monthly, , more often than likely to report better results. Stuff like that depends what you’re measuring, I suppose.

Depends what your goal is. But, , I know businesses who are. Once, twice a month and are consistent at it. , what results are they getting out of it? If it’s thought leadership, [00:45:00] perhaps, , is it amplification elsewhere? You need to do an analytics report on that kind of thing. I think it’s good to see, , blogs still alive and well in spite of, , some of the downside of all of that, which is useless content, clickbait type content, , that you see employed by some media tabloids in particular.

, you see that reflect in some blog posts along with, and again, this is my kind of tired cynicism. , sometimes shell that you look at some con you think, why on earth did you even. Publishes drl. And that’s very subjective, and it’s cruel sometimes to say that. I wouldn’t say that to anyone. You often think it, I often wonder, do people say that about my stuff?

Sometimes I wonder, I’ll never know unless someone tells me. , I don’t go out and ask people. But, , it’s good to see blogging. It is not going away. This Fiori with WordPress I don’t think is helping anything. , with a fight with WP Engine. And then this whole argument about who owns the intellectual property rights to WordPress, , et cetera, , I see a lot of people, , what does that mean a [00:46:00] lot?

Maybe 15 or 20 over the past few weeks saying, I’m quitting WordPress. I’m gonna go to Ghost, or I’m gonna go to some other service, or whatever. Yeah. I suppose inevitable. Are we at a time then for the shakeout in the tools and the platforms that we’re using? To write blog posts. Has a definition of blogging shifted?

I suspect it has , the original definition of, reverse chronological content and you have tracks and the track backs and pings and all that stuff. It’s all automated now. , and I think it has changed in that regard. So if you are using a blog like I am, which is, the simplest way I can describe it is to think out loud, not to pitch anything, not to persuade anyone to a particular course of action overtly, where I can register an algorithmic outcome from that.

I have no interest in doing any of those things. Thinking out loud. Might get some comment from someone. I’ve had some interesting reactions to some of the content recently, like a week or two after I published it. Someone’s encountered it via LinkedIn or Facebook. So I enjoy though those are serendipitous in my book and [00:47:00] that’s definitely makes it all worthwhile.

, let’s go through the remaining four key takeaways, in a lightning round in the interest of time. The fifth is that content formats and, , the power of original researcher in play how two guides remain the top format for bloggers. The survey suggests that original research and collaborative content, like interviews yield the strongest engagement.

Nearly half of respondents reported conducting original research, which significantly contributes to perceived authority. And SEO Jay B the content strategist underscores that original resource is more resilient against AI driven content as it provides unique insights that readers can’t find elsewhere.

Then we have, , the six takeaway influencer collaboration and editing process. Successful bloggers are often those who work closely with influencers and editors. About half of the respondents collaborate with subject matter experts on occasion, and a small successful group does that [00:48:00] Consistently.

Bloggers who involve editors in their process report better results. There’s Amanda Milligan, director of Content Strategy. Who points out that these collaborations create organic authority boosts and improve content quality by integrating , multiple perspectives, making it more valuable and credible.

The seventh key takeaway, , around video and multimedia use, , the use of video and blogs has doubled since 2015, but only about 25% of bloggers consistently use it. Those who do report positive impacts on engagement and reach, aligning with broader social media trends, which where users increasingly prefer video content will.

Reynolds is an industry expert. He advises that marketers prioritize video considering that platforms like YouTube and TikTok continue to grow. Even if bloggers themselves aren’t maintaining videos, potential or maximizing videos potential just yet. And the final takeaway is around analytics and measuring success.

bloggers who consistently [00:49:00] track their analytics are two and a half times more likely to see strong results, but only 20% of bloggers admit that they, , don’t or can’t measure their content’s performance. , Karen Hopper, an analytics expert, stresses that reliable data allows content creators to refine their strategies and demonstrate value, especially as marketing budgets come under closer scrutiny.

So those are the key takeaways. , any thoughts on those Last four, Neville? Yeah, I, the one that struck me was, what a blog is putting in their articles, , visuals, , I’ve always had that. Every single post I publish has a hero image on it. It’s there. And it, I tend to use metaphors a lot and often generate them from, an, , generative AI tool.

, I don’t look for, perfection in terms of photorealistic images, they’re metaphors. I want to use, typically, I’m actually a big fan recently of, , Adobe, , Express that has Firefly built in and stock images built in. So I probably, funny enough, I use one on a, on the post.

[00:50:00] I mentioned at the beginning of this episode about, , additional comments I made to that article. We wrote, we featured in An episode. So I used , a picture of a board, , of a, , a c-suite example, young people. And I then noticed after I’d used it about three or four days later, that the woman front of image, attractive young woman, , is holding pencils in both hands.

I noticed that you gotta pay attention to these things, but, so in any case, I use images. , looking at the metrics here that virtually all bloggers add images to their content. , some bloggers use a lot, small minority adds seven or more. Again, depends on what you’re writing. I don’t do that, but a hero image, something to break it up again, depending on it.

Subheadings I use a lot too. I don’t use video a lot. And it’s interesting. Video , is getting huge attention, but not in blogging. Partly I suspect, , it’s often not easy to embed a video. I. Unless it’s on YouTube, some places don’t do this, and I’ve seen blogs including one of my posts recently, where you don’t control that content.

So [00:51:00] something happens to it. You don’t get it in the embed working. , the worst one is ones that say, you’re not allowed to watch this in your country. Stuff like that. So the permissions aren’t right, so you have that risk. , when I publish myself about episodes that you and I create, I always include an embedded, an embed from Libsyn that will play it and link back to the show notes page.

I tend to do that a lot of visuals and make it a, an interesting visual visit so the user experience is better. That’s, I care about stuff like that and the user interface. I just don’t. Thank So I’m may, I may or may not be , a really good example to, to have this discussion with you because my, , my, , attention on this and what I believe is worth spending time on is not the same as , your typical business block.

So, Jay Bear, for instance, would probably hate talking to me ’cause I wouldn’t be able to converse with him about the same things for the same reasons. But everyone’s different. , and I think, you share your thoughts. Thought leadership is something that I pay attention to. Not the phrase so much, but the act, [00:52:00] the demonstration of that as others perceive it.

So when I get comments to things are right, , I pay attention to that , when they come in. So. That’s my take on it, by the way. I just read this week that Midjourney has released an update that allows you to edit the images that it creates. Yeah. You could have told it to take the pencil out of one of the woman’s hands.

That’s it. That’s worth knowing. She, I should try Midjourney again. I’ve not tried it for a while, but, part of it is a journey. The experimentation , we are having, , what you and I talk about, what others talk about, what others talk about when they listen to what you and I are talking about.

it’s a bit like the , notebook, LM tool that , we tried out on, , experimenting on creating a podcast. A lot of excitement about that I was terribly excited about. It’s all gone dreadfully quiet since then. And I think, , that people realize, perhaps the initial excitement, this is not the intent of this tool.

This is not a viable solution to create a podcast unless you are creating something that you use in a podcast that you’re creating now that I could see for. There may be options for that kind of thing. [00:53:00] Greeting Shea Neville, and FR lists all around the world. It’s Dan York. Greetings coming at you from Shelburn, Vermont.

Actually, not in my home office. I’m in LaMarche and I , have a special guest right here. Charlie, Bernie, I’m so excited to be here. How are you? Charlie has been a devoted member of our FYR chat that we’ve had on on Thursday afternoon Yes. That anybody can join, but just a weekly Zoom chat that shell maintains, and some of us get there together for about a half an hour and talk about social media and everything else.

Yeah. So what are you doing up here in Vermont? Well, first of all, this is for you, Jeff Davis. You can join too. I’m, I’m visiting. Thank you, Dan. I’m visiting my daughter Isabel, who teaches at the University of Vermont and coaches debate. So Charlie’s, uh, when he was coming up here, he dropped me a note. Yeah.

And so we’re, we’ve had a nice coffee and conversation hanging out here at this, uh, little cafe and, uh, figured I’d go and do this. So, um, one thing I was gonna talk about today was that, uh, blue sky just announced that [00:54:00] they had a, do you use Blue sky? No. Okay. No. Where do you spend your time actually on social media these days?

Uh, a lot of time on LinkedIn, to be honest with you. Okay. I’ve, I’ve experimented when my wife was, uh, at, under the Weather a year ago, I experimented with TikTok and I have 500 followers. They’re mostly bots, uh, on TikTok to talk about podcasting and some of the stuff, stuff I did in my booking and a little bit on Instagram as well.

That’s more TikTok followers than I have. I, I’ve also played around with it a little bit. Yeah. But haven’t done a whole lot there. Yeah. That kind of stuff. So I’m not sure it’s worth the time, but I’m there, you know, so, and, and Instagram, I tend to keep an Instagram presence on behalf of PO Bill Media as much as anything else.

So the, uh, yeah. Yeah. My and my daughters are, one is really into TikTok and one is really in Instagram reel, so that’s kind of where they, they absorb a lot of life, but, you know, with the, with the move away from Twitter and x, Sony Evil gone to, to LinkedIn Right. Has been a big beneficiary. Right. But also, you know, mastodons where I spend my time with Fred’s.[00:55:00]

Mm-Hmm. Blue sky, all this. So Blue Sky has, uh, just been taking a little bit of, you know, getting some attention and flack because they accepted a, a round of investment that had $13 million, which the big, the big player in it was a company called Blockchain Capital, which is a, a, a blockchain, cryptocurrency kind of company.

And, and now, I mean, if you go back, you know, Jack Dorsey was behind the creation of Blue Sky and that stuff. Right. And he’s big into that whole world. Yeah. So this should not be a surprise on one level, but, but Blue Sky talked a good bit about how they’ve, they’ve grown, they’ve opened it up. They now have 13 million people.

They’ve, they’ve got Federation, they’ve got some people doing separate servers using this, the AT protocol as they call it. Mm-Hmm. They’ve got, um, custom feeds. They’re gonna be building more stuff that they’re doing. So they’re talking all about what they’re, what they’re trying to do here. And so that’s, uh, that’s their big news.

They’ve got a a, a lot of things happening, a lot of stuff going on that has not been universally well received because many people have been saying, you know, Hey, [00:56:00] here we are. This is the acidification, you know, is coming at some point. Because here we go with, with that. And over on Mastodon, where I spent a lot of time, there’s of course been a lot of commentary around, you know, here we go, VC investing, all this stuff, right?

And, uh, Eugene or Eugene Racho, who’s the kind of the co-founder or the founder of Mastodon, he had a post that said, Mastodon is financed by crowdfunding instead of venture capital. Not because we don’t know that venture capital exists, not because we don’t have bills to pay and not because venture capital isn’t willing to give money to new social media platforms.

VCs don’t want a sustainable business. They want a big exit. Every VC backed business is on a timer to deliver or die. And, and that’s true. That’s but true. It’s a, it’s a great. Soundbite because it’s absolutely true. You, it is absolutely true. I’ve worked at a couple startups that were VC backed and you had a timer.

Yeah. You had to, you know, this was your, your schedule that you had to go and do. It’s crazy. So, so that’s [00:57:00] kind of the big, the big thing. That’s, um, it’s a big deal. Yeah. It’s going on. So we’ll see. We’ll see what happens. You know. We’ll, uh, we’ll, blue Sky, sky, the timer just started on blue sky. Right. Will they deliver what their, what their investors need?

Yeah. Or not, so, um, so you were telling me a little bit earlier when we were talking too. Mm-Hmm. You use a product called Riverside FM to record some of the podcast that you take. Right. And you were telling me about some of the cool new stuff. So maybe what is Riverside fm? Well, Riverside, so of course with the, with the, the pandemic and quarantine, we had to use much more zoom, much more remote podcasting, uh, than we ever did before.

We were doing it before sending out kits, sending out com, Rex lines, but then everybody got very used to Zoom. We built studios every got. Most people, and it’s talked about on this show, got better microphones, better headsets for their Zoom calls at Home. Riverside is is a step above Zoom and when I was at podcast movement a couple months ago, [00:58:00] the crew at Riverside told us they were coming out with a whole bunch of AI developments, better tools inside the unit.

So we did two hours of just the staff at Pod Media last week running through all the advancements that this new update in Riverside has. I couldn’t possibly list them all here. The AI searchability, the transcription, you can do word search, you can create social media assets, you can fine tune those, do them by topic.

It’s, it’s absolutely overwhelming. We are thrilled by these new tools, which most people aren’t using, but we are using now as of of today. What’s an example? So it’s a real advanced what’s, yeah. What’s an example of one of the tools that used to take you hours, but now you can do an in minutes? Well, let’s say you and I do this and I’m gonna go back and try and make a 62nd clip based on Blue sky.

I’ll take this audio and or audio and video back to Riverside and, and say, create a [00:59:00] 62nd clip on the word blue sky. I don’t have to do any of the work. All I have to do is the post editing, which you might have had to do after one or two people. Found that clip sourced the clip, it might give you five different versions of that that you can choose from.

And then do that sort of super editing process so you don’t have to search. Find the time. You don’t have to mark. Mark down the time when you were having that conversation like we used to. Oh yeah. Oh, at three minutes and 20 seconds. I did. I was talking with Dan about blue sky, none of that. It’s all taken care of.

So you just go and say, I want make me 62nd clips on Blue Cloud blue or blue sky and goes, wow, that’s really cool. Including, including subtitles. I mean, all the bells and whistles that we do manually can be created. You still can’t take the person out at the end of the editing process. Right. ’cause as, as you guys have talked about, as we’ve talked about, there are errors.

You can’t just post that. Right. ’cause then it blames on you, but it does take out the first edit, maybe the second and third. Wow. Then you’re in there going, [01:00:00] okay, does it sound better if I cut it here or there? But that first draft is taken care of for you on the podcast, on the social media assets.

That’s just one of the features. It’s really, really, really robust. That’s cool. Riverside do com. Well, I gotta wrap it there for the show, but, uh, it’s great to see you Charlie. Nice to meet. It’s great to meet after knowing you virtually for so long that I know it’s a face to face know. Look for our selfie.

There you go. Well, thanks. Uh, she Neville for, uh, this opportunity to talk and say a little bit more people. You can find more about that at Riverside. Ff and Charlie, where can people find you on social media? Well, as a result of listening to for immediate release, for many years I started podcasting and now run a media production company called Pod Ville Media.

So Pod ville Media one word.com. And please look me up or I’m just Charlie at Pod Bill Media. All right. Yeah. Thanks everybody. Thanks Deb. Yeah, thank you. Back to you. She Neville. Bye for now. Just a little PS I was recording that with [01:01:00] Charlie in the cafe using a new device I got called the Holly Land Lark, M two wireless lav mics.

They’re two little round circular microphones that you can just put on the shirt with a magnetic thing. They go to a connector. In this case that was going into my iPhone. There’s also A-U-S-B-C and also a connector. It can go into a, a camera or an audio device. But I was quite pleased we didn’t even use the noise cancellation feature that, uh, that is also there.

So again, it’s a Holly Land Lark M two, if you wanna play with something new, very inexpensive, very nice. thank you so much, Dan. I cannot tell you how it warms my heart to hear you talking with Charlie, Bernie. I saw the photo that you shared as well of the two of you together. , just knowing that FIR brought people together who would’ve never otherwise met, is just a wonderful feeling.

And, , also, of course, the [01:02:00] content of the report was interesting. blue Sky. Yeah, I’m spending very, very little time on Blue Sky. I would say threads between the two of them has really captured my attention more. , but , this investment, , might, boost their fortunes. So our next story, it follows a tragic death of Liam Payne, the former member of the One Direction Boy Band who fell from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Last week, a local news platform in the West Midlands in the uk owned by reach PLC, posted over 80 articles within 72 hours each. Aiming to garner online engagement. This was nothing less than the strategy of milking Liam Payne’s. Death for Clicks says Dan Slee, an award-winning, communicated with decades of experience in public sector communication in the media.

He argues that this highlights a shift in local journalism, which now prioritizes clicks over community relevance and sensitivity. This approach led to substantial [01:03:00] backlash with nearly half of the comments on the local news platforms article, expressing frustration at the perceived exploitation of Payne’s death.

Many readers criticized the flood of coverage suggesting it was disrespectful to Payne’s family and intrusive. SLE points out that modern news platforms like Reach PLC, prioritize digital metrics over traditional reporting resulting in loss of trust. This specific example of using repetitive emotion driven headlines reflects a widespread shift across local media where the focus is now on high traffic content rather than nuanced storytelling.

Slee emphasizes that while the if it bleeds, it leads mantra, once sold print papers. Today’s readers are quick to spot sensationalism. They expect higher standards from news outlets, particularly in times of tragedy. Tragedy in essence, slee cautions that reach PLC’s approach risks alienating its audience in the long term.

He suggests that while this strategy may succeed in the short term for engagement, it [01:04:00] ultimately devalues the community connection that local journalism wants upheld. Building on Dan s Lee’s critique author and crisis PR consultant, mark Bakowski adds a powerful layer about the consequences of this media machine on celebrities themselves in an opinion piece in The Guardian.

While Slee critiques reaches tactics as commercially unsustainable, Bakowski suggests that such practices are ethically fraught, diminishing the humanity of public figures like pain. Together these perspectives offer a comprehensive view. While outlets like reach exploit celebrity news to maximize engagement, they contribute to a dehumanizing culture that disregards the wellbeing of those at its center.

This combined perspective emphasizes that today’s media, by constantly feeding on the lives of celebrities, not only risks alienating audiences, but also enforces an unsustainable cycle of scrutiny on public figures. As Slee warns of the audience backlash against relentless clickbait, Bukowski’s insights encourage [01:05:00] people to consider the emotional toil on celebrities and ask if a change in how we approach celebrity culture is overdue.

Together they argue for immediate landscape, and that balances engagement with respect and empathy, acknowledging the impact on both audiences and those in the spotlight. A remarkable story in some regards. , just the chutzpah of a, of an organization to take that approach, , around something so tragic, , and yet unsurprising, , especially with the sensationalism that so many publications feel is necessary in order to draw eyeballs.

, unfortunate. But I think it’s just the way things are these days. You mentioned the old, if it bleeds, it leads mantra and that hasn’t changed. you’re, you’re no not going to see a story about, you know, it was a sunny day and people walked in the park. , the media is attracted to those types of stories in which people are [01:06:00] hurt or bad things have happened.

, that’s not gonna change, but this is different. , this is almost the glorification of a tragic event as opposed to, , incessant coverage of that event. This wasn’t more reporting or more analysis. , this was just hammering people with the fact that it had happened. And I can see why their audience was not happy with it.

This particular company reached PLC, published a number of tabloids in the uk and a swath of local newspapers up and down the country. , they’re in the news for a different reason. It’s , very related, I think, which is , the whole business model is geared to. Clicks on questionable content, on articles that lead you to click, they’ll talk about something happens in, in, in an industry and this particular company is gonna do X and they mention the company, you gotta click to get more information.

I’ve seen some people talking about, , the way in which they treat their employees, the reporters in particular [01:07:00] where they are incentivized to just literally churn out. Sheer volumes of content, , day in and day out, and manufacture stories where frankly there is no story. If you look at some of these papers, , I dunno what it’s like in the US shell, but local media in this country, broadly speaking, you go to a local media website and you are absolutely surrounded with popups, ads, the works and stuff popping up all the time, encouraging you to sign up and do this or whatever.

, and the illustrations within an article are typically third party, other articles from the likes of Tabula and those kinds of companies that sell this kind of content. So you know that your visit is being tracked inside out and back to front and upside down every time you click something. So they are, they seem to be at the forefront of this.

And so I expect to see more news like this criticizing reach PLC. , but like you said, the cynicism kicks in quite easily. Is anything really gonna change? I admire Mark Bukowski’s encouragement., to [01:08:00] think about this more than we tend to. And he’s written, , actually his article is really , worth reading.

, but will it move any needles in any meaningful way for anyone? I, I wonder, so is this something that regulators need to do anything about? I honestly can’t see that. it’s the business model. The people running this business are the ones who need to be in the frame for accountability. It seems to me.

Yeah, this won’t come as a surprise to anybody, but I did hear a journalist, I think it was at the PRSA conference, re recalling the days where they could spend all day working on a story, working their sources, getting more quotes. Yeah, getting more information, putting Polish to the finished product.

Now they’re expected to turn out five, six stories a day just to keep that flow of clickbait coming. Even the journalists aren’t necessarily happy with this, but it is sadly the state of affairs because there has to be a way for media companies to create revenue, otherwise they’re not gonna be able to.

Produce this content. And despite the fact [01:09:00] that there is, I understand low trust in the media, these are the folks who go out and spend the time, using up their shoe leather, , getting the facts. Getting the details, yeah. , and reporting them in coherent ways that are meaningful to people.

There, there has to be a way to maintain this. Is it public funding? I don’t know. , but there, there has to be, , a model for maintaining professional journalism. Not that I’m gonna call the publication that you highlighted, , professional journalism. Well, they get paid to do it. Right.

So it’s professional journalists, just not good professional journalism. No, this is the landscape, shall I agree with you? And, and it’s not a pretty site. That’s a fact. Something needs to happen. He says, , I dunno what though. Over the past few years, a lot of workers have become increasingly disconnected from their roles, from their peers, even from their employers.

We’ve seen this in trends like Quiet, quitting, and the Great resignation, both of which were topics here on FIR. For some, this fractured relationship is partly a [01:10:00] reaction to the uncertainty and isolation that was brought on by the Covid Pandemic, which fundamentally altered the way we work. In response, there are a lot of leaders who are asking employees to RTO, that is return to the office, believing that being physically together will foster better connections, drive collaboration and boost engagement.

And I have heard this from a number of people throughout the business world that, with people working remotely in hybrid, there’s less of that. Serendipitous encountering of somebody in the hallway where the conversation leads to a brainstorm or the solving of a problem. We need to get people back in the office, but according to the NeuroLeadership Institute and Akamai’s, latest research, physical presence alone.

Probably isn’t gonna deliver the results that you’re looking for. Forcing people back isn’t necessary necessarily a solution to disconnection. In fact, it [01:11:00] can backfire. Productivity can decline, and organizations risk losing some of their most seasoned employees. So how can organizations truly foster connection?

The researchers propose what they call the Clear Model, an acronym that breaks down the workplace connections into four types, colleague, leader, employer, and role. So let’s quickly review these. The Colleague Connection is what most of us envision when we think of a workplace connection relationship we have with our coworkers.

Colleague. Connection enables trust, support, and collaboration. Embracing both individual and team performance. Leader Connection looks at our bond with our immediate leaders who play a significant role in shaping. Our work experience, a good manager provides opportunities, clarity and balance Feedback research shows it up to 70% of engagement variants can be con attributed to the quality of this connection.

The employer connection considers the alignment between the employee and the organization’s mission and values. [01:12:00] This connection can be pivotal in shaping how meaningful and fulfilling one’s work feels, and the role connection. This is inspired by the concept of flow. A role connection is about how well a person fits with and enjoys the job.

It’s the engagement and clarity an employee feels in their specific role, knowing how their efforts can advance them personally and professionally. , these four elements suggest that connection is multidimensional, not a one size fits all. Solution. Leaders should consider this model when implementing return to office policies.

Take a mandate that only prioritizes colleague connection. It could inadvertently strain leader connection if employees feel their autonomy is being overlooked. That’s one of those intrinsic values that people hold dear employer. Enroll connections might also suffer if people feel undervalued or micromanaged simply for showing up in person.

And in fact, if you decide not to go the return to office route, the clear framework. Pretty clearly shows us that [01:13:00] nurturing all four connection types creates a stronger workplace connection. Even if people aren’t necessarily coming to the office. You might adopt a patchwork principle that accommodates different ways of working for different teams or individuals, rather than a single blanket policy.

But businesses are wrestling with low engagement, , wrestling with rapid change, diminished trust. It’s really important for leaders to recognize the nature of workplace connection and approach, approach it with intention and the clear framework, which by the way, came out of a Harvard Business Review article, , is an opportunity to rethink the workplace, aligning it more closely with the diverse needs of the workforce that we’re coping with today.

Yeah, that makes total sense. And one thing struck me from the Harvard Business View article, , is how things change over time. And, the precise wording that caught my eye, our connection preferences can also wax and wane depending on what’s going on in their lives. Change a big life events.

Someone got [01:14:00] married, perhaps, , takes up a hobby, , that materially alters their desire for partnership at work. , and I’m also thinking that this whole thing about working from home in particular arose during the pandemic and the strong efforts made by companies everywhere to, provide an appeal for employees to do that, to finance their offices home equipment.

And that’s now four. Since that happens suddenly reverse gears. , you gotta come back to the office. Now , you’re talking about material effects on people, again, wrenching them outta something they now got used to with the encouragement of their employer officially, even if some managers don’t like it.

, and indeed we were talking earlier that, , some managers are just blinked at this. Totally. You’ve gotta come to the office. I don’t believe any of this stuff at all about the benefits work at home. Nothing works except you physically being in the office. That doesn’t all go well for employer employee relations, particularly if that’s a senior person talking like that.

I [01:15:00] get the clear analogy. , but , , the article does go on about, the consequences if employee employers insist on return to the office, a blanket return to the office. We’ve talked about this before. We’ve written about it too. And I’ve seen lots of articles, , that tend to pop up , when some companies in the news, ’cause they’re insisting everyone goes back to the office.

I’m not. A kind of a wholesale action like that anymore if I’m judging it by what’s not being reported anymore in the mainstream media, let’s say. It’s not something I’ve paid huge attention to recently to get a sense of how serious is this return to the office thing, , as a mass return.

I don’t see that happening. But nevertheless, it’s, , it’s troubling when you hear people still saying that nothing happens outside the office, so you’ve gotta come back. That’s simply not true anymore. , not only because of the changes that have happened since the pandemic, but that just isn’t true. I like to think this is true.

I haven’t researched it, but I was in a session, , at a conference, I think it was at the IEPC conference in June where the speaker [01:16:00] said there’s actually no empirical evidence at all that being in the office leads to these serendipitous encounters in the hallway that produce brainstorms or problem solutions, at a rate that’s any higher than other means of doing it.

That , it’s just a myth. I would say if it’s so planned , and strategized, and it ain’t serendipitous in that case, these are chance encounters. I remember, yeah, I used to be a smoker. I haven’t had a cigarette since 1991, but I used to be a smoker. , and some of the best conversations I ever had was outside at the ashtray because you had to go outside and there were people from all different departments there.

And man, the information exchange , was terrific people that you wouldn’t be talking to otherwise. This is why I always like to tell clients, I say, if you really wanna know how information moves through this organization, go hang out with the smokers outside. , but does that lead to solutions that are going to produce revenues, , or solve big problems for the [01:17:00] organization somehow?

I doubt it for all those conversations that I had out at the ashtray, I can’t remember one of them. Leading to something big, , whether it was me producing that outcome or somebody else who was out there having a smoke. like you, I was a smoker. I didn’t stop actually until 2008, so that’s a good 15 years or more longer than you.

But I remember one job I had actually, it was at Mercer, , actually where my boss’s boss was a heavy smoker. And, catching up with him in the smoking group was always very beneficial, very relaxed, , and it was nice to have a chat with him. But the other thing, it may have been the only place you could go catch up with him, right?

You couldn’t get in to see this person. Otherwise, , those were the serendipitous moments I remember. I must have been anyway, this debate is not gonna go away anytime soon. This whole thing about come back to the office or not. We look forward to talking about it again in the upcoming episode, I’m sure.

Our final story in this month’s episode is [01:18:00] another report that we’re gonna take a look at. , but this is, , not like the blogging report. This is about AI and, , unlike the way you conducted that one, she, I’m not gonna talk so much about , the content of this report. We have a link to it , in the show notes.

It’s a big read. With a huge amount to unpack, , much of which, , is gonna be complex to many communicators. And indeed, that takes away the focus of what we want to focus on in this, which is, , something that’s utterly relevant to communicators who are seeking to understand AI’s business landscape. So the state of the AI report is what it’s called, published in mid-October, just a week or so ago.

, shows an industry at a turning point with AI expanding into new domains and redefining sectors while grappling with significant challenges around regulation, sustainability, and safety. , as I mentioned, it’s a big read, but this breakdown is. Geared, I hope to helping us [01:19:00] communicate is understand what’s actually important about this and what takeaways we can get from support without actually reading it.

So we are here to help you with that, but I encourage you to read at least the executive summary and then dive into some of these segments ’cause it is worth the takeaway. So the first of these five key insights, , is that AI is increasingly relevant across industries that were not traditionally tech heavy.

It moves outta the tech landscape entirely. So communicators should prepare to bridge these interdisciplinary opportunities, crafting narratives that resonate with diverse fields from healthcare to engineering. The second, the emergence of content creation. Startups suggest a new array of tools for business communicators, particularly in video and audio.

However, as model and hardware costs remain high, it will be crucial for communicators to advise on the cost benefit equation and to gauge the sustainability of AI driven solutions. Third, with regional regulations growing, it’s essential for communicators to articulate [01:20:00] compliance measures and to guide stakeholders in navigating the complex regulatory landscape.

Communicators have a role in demystifying these laws and explaining their business impacts, especially in Europe and the us. One tip I’d add to that is something I did. If you take for instance, the eus , AI law, I’ve forgotten the formal title of, it’s a massive document and ask chat GPT plus to summarize it all and highlighting certain things, , it will do that.

It will give you something digestible that you could take away from, or start to develop further and ask more questions to fine tune this. It will even do things like, tell me what this means from a professional communicator perspective, once you define what that kind of audience or persona is, actually is very handy.

, the fourth one. Is trust building around AI will be essential as companies emphasize deployment speed communicators can support transparency efforts by addressing safety and ethical considerations. This proactive approach [01:21:00] will help allay public concerns and sustain consumer confidence in AI products.

And the fifth one, increase adoption and retention of AI products indicator maturing market ready for long-term solutions Communicators have an opportunity to spotlight customer success stories and articulate the distinct advantages of new AI-driven products. So to summarize, overall communicators should be prepared to guide stakeholders through AI’s growing complexities, crafting messaging that clarifies both its transformative potential and the responsibilities it entails.

What do you reckon? Shell, isn’t it interesting that so many people are worried about job loss as a result of AI being able to do the work that they do? And indeed, there have been copywriters who have been laid off from advertising agencies because AI has taken that on. But if you look at this report and, uh some others like it.

For communicators who are strategic, , and who [01:22:00] are paying attention, AI is job security. There is so much that communicators can do to help organizations adopt, , and maximize , the potential of, , and use AI ethically. That this should keep us , very busy, , on top of our, our regular duties.

I, think it’s the first technology I have seen, and as you know, I’ve been paying attention to the technologies that impact communication since desktop publishing. But I think if, if we’re. Just staying current with all of this and developing a solid understanding, not just of how it can be used to write and create graphics, but the impact on the organization and how it can impact the organization, , both from the outside and the inside, and encouraging employees to use it effectively.

And the list goes on and on. , there’s just [01:23:00] a ton of work for us to do and we can demonstrate to the organization that we’re the ones to be doing it. These five points are made are just these, there’s a lot more you could dive into in this report. I just plucked out what I felt would’ve been, , some obvious ones to communicate.

They’re all to, all of these are aligned with what , you’ve just been saying. So yes, there is opportunity and it doesn’t really require anyone to tell you what to do. you, if you are a communicator, you’ve got a golden opportunity here to grasp this and take it to that next level that will benefit your organization.

Impress your boss, and, your job will be secure. This is as secure as any job can be, but it’s, it’s opportunity knocks. Yeah. And it, it’s important for communicators to read reports like this and. Ethan Malik’s book and follow him online , and follow Chris Penn and listen to some of , the better AI focused podcasts.

, I was just at , this meeting of construction [01:24:00] communicators. I was at, two of them had gone to Macon, , the marketing AI conference, which is just getting rave reviews. People love this thing. And, , the guy who runs that organization and one of his senior leaders do a weekly AI podcast, but I think , it’s just the two of them talking, but it’s excellent , what they cover.

So there are resources out there that make this easier to stay up to speed than there were with previous technologies. So really need to jump into those. And that’ll wrap up this episode of Four Immediate Release. You Dear Listener, have not heard the technical problems that we’ve had because I will have edited all of those out, but this has been a very challenging episode.

, our next episode, we’ll be doing the midweek shorter episodes now that we’re both back in the office. Although I will be gone for one week. I am speaking at an internal comms conference in Toronto the week after next, but we’ll get several of our midweek episodes up. Our next long [01:25:00] form monthly episode will drop on Monday, November 25th, so we’re recording that on the 23rd.

In the meantime, we hope that you will comment on anything you have heard here or on any of our midweek episodes. There are a number of ways to do that. The way that most people are doing that these days is by leaving a comment on the LinkedIn announcement of the Post, but we also announce those on Blue Sky, on threads, on Facebook, on Mastodon.

So whichever one of these you follow, , leave a comment. We’ll find it and we’ll share it. But you can also send an email to fir comments@gmail.com. You can attach an audio file or record one on the FIR. Podcast Network website. Just click the record voicemail at the right hand side of the page and we will play your audio.

Man. We haven’t done that in ages. Nobody’s sent us any audio. Sent us [01:26:00] audio. , and you can also leave a comment in the post, on FIR podcast network.com. , and we hope that you will leave a review and a rating, , wherever you get your podcasts. And that will be a 30 for this episode of four immediate release.

The post FIR #433: Something Old, Something New appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss strategic planning for growing an agency in 2025. They stress the importance of planning during Q4 and consistently gathering ideas throughout the year, whether digitally or using methods like post-it notes. They highlight the common mistake of agencies relying solely on referrals or word-of-mouth without proactive strategies.

The hosts also emphasize the need for business owners to define their personal and business goals before crafting a detailed strategy to grow, warning against simply emulating others without considering personal business objectives. They touch on diversifying revenue streams and advise focusing on mastering one business development approach well before expanding to other approaches. The importance of involving team members and contractors in the planning process is highlighted to ensure a holistic and informed strategy. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 249: Planning for agency growth appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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CEOs and other senior executives are increasingly expected to nurture a presence on social media—especially LinkedIn, which has seen a 35-percent increase in C-suite professionals in the U.S. over the last five years. These executives are also expected to be authentic in their online engagements, even sharing some details of their personal lives. Professionals also expect their leaders to speak out on pressing societal issues. It’s rare to find an executive who is comfortable displaying vulnerability. That’s where communicators need to step in, helping leaders find the most comfortable way to engage authentically online.

Links from this episode:

• Power and influencers: CEOs on social media
• Authenticity is the New Trend for CEOs to Forge Stronger Connections, According to the Weber Shandwick Report
• Why being “real” is the new power play for CEOs

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, October 28.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #432: The CEO Authenticity Balancing Act appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Change management is among the most critical of communication skills. As organizations face unprecedented challenges and opportunities, the ability to navigate and implement change effectively can mean the difference between an organization thriving or struggling to survive. The pace of change has been accelerating dramatically, driven by technological advancements, shifting market dynamics, and global events. This has highlighted the crucial role that effective communication plays in successful change management. Skilled communicators are essential in articulating the vision for change, addressing concerns, fostering engagement, and maintaining momentum throughout the transformation process.

Brad Whitworth moderated the panel, which featuredZora Artis, Priya Bates, Todd Hattori, and Cindy Schmieg.

About the panel

Zora Artis is a leading Alignment, Brand, and Communication Strategist. She works with executive and senior leaders to unlock the value in their people, brands, and organizations through alignment with purpose, promise and strategies, and effective communication. She has over three decades of experience in business, brand, marketing, communication, and advertising, working with government, private, and non-profit sectors. This includes roles as Group Account Director, Strategy Director, and CEO of integrated marcomms and advertising firms. She now runs her own management consulting practice, bringing together strategic alignment, capability training, and brand and communications expertise. Zora holds a Master’s in Marketing and Commerce and is a trained facilitator in alignment, design thinking, and business model generation.

Priya Bates is a senior communication executive who provides strategic internal communication counsel in order to ensure leaders, managers, and employees understand the strategy, believe in the vision, act in accordance with the values, and contribute to business results. She is president of Inner Strength Communications in Toronto and previously served as senior director of Internal Communications at Loblaw Companies Limited.

Todd “Tosh” Hattori — Leveraging 20+ years of leading in-house communication functions within a variety of organizations and industries, Tosh shifted his career focus toward helping organization leaders address business challenges by setting and implementing organizational excellence strategies. He is currently the continuous improvement lead for F5, Inc. where he leads Lean Six Sigma practitioners who collaborate with cross-functional teams to eliminate waste and establish consistencies that deliver exceptional employee and customer experiences; and organizational change management practitioners who help employees navigate shifts in organizational processes and practices to achieve functional and enterprise success. As a passionate advocate of his rich Japanese heritage, Tosh serves as the F5 Asian & Pacific Islander employee inclusion group co-chair, raising awareness of the rich and diverse Asian and Pacific Islander cultures, beliefs, and perspectives within the F5 workforce; and helping members and allies advance awareness and understanding within our communities to achieve support, safety, and success.

Cindy Schmieg is an award-winning strategic communicator. Her 30+ years of corporate, agency, and consulting experience focuses on making the communications function strategic within an organization. Cindy now teaches online in the Communications Master Degree program at Southern New Hampshire. She has served in many IABC leadership roles and is today a member of the IABC Audit/Risk Committee and Pacific Plains Region Silver Quill Award Committee, as well as assisting on the IABC Minnesota Annual Convergence Summit.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He is a senior executive communications leader at Pacific Gas & Electric. During his career, he has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California, a wine country, and grows Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes worldwide. Brad is a past board chair of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

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#779: Dagmar Fleming/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility

Dagmar Fleming guides entrepreneurs in accelerating their growth and boosting their income while fulfilling their life purpose. Her proprietary Triple Quantum Reset process reveals transformative insights, aligning individuals with their true goals for comprehensive success. As the Founder of Unlock Your Success mentorship program, Dagmar empowers entrepreneurs to achieve significant breakthroughs, fostering both internal and external growth.

As a leader, Dagmar exemplifies her values through initiatives like The Athena Circle, a community organization dedicated to supporting women entrepreneurs. She creates an inclusive environment emphasizing passion, purpose, and prosperity, encouraging women to delve into their strengths and aspirations. By embodying her principles of empowerment and collaboration, Dagmar inspires others to reach their ultimate potential while building a network of support and encouragement.

Here are the best inspiring AHA messages from this episode:

• We have the right to live life on our own terms, to choose the job that satisfies us, to thrive, and to express our views without being judged.
• Fear is perceived as a preventer of disaster, but stepping into our power and showing up confidently is where true strength lies.
• Legacy is not just what we leave behind, but how we impact others every day through our actions and presence.

Tune in to her interview with Mitchell Levy to experience Dagmar’s transformative wisdom on how leaders can genuinely embody their values.

To view the video interview, click here.

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#757: David Meltzer On Mitchell Levy Presents Leaders Living Their Values

David Meltzer dedicates his career to empowering others through core values, transformational leadership, and global impact initiatives. His journey from financial success to personal transformation reflects his deep belief in gratitude, forgiveness, accountability, and faith. By sharing his experiences and core values, he helps individuals find their own path to happiness and inspires them to uplift others.

Through his leadership, Meltzer shows how values can drive meaningful change. His mission to inspire over a billion people to find happiness is a testament to his belief in the power of core principles. By integrating gratitude, forgiveness, accountability, and faith into his daily practices, he models how these values can lead to personal and collective success. His approach to empowering others is about achieving individual goals and fostering a ripple effect of positive transformation. Meltzer’s life and work are powerful examples of how living one’s values can create lasting, global impact.

Here are the best inspiring AHA messages from this episode:

• If your long-term objectives are not terrifying, then they’re not big enough.
• Gratitude gives you perspective, forgiveness brings peace, accountability grants control, and faith provides inspiration.
• Be kind to your future self by living in alignment with your core values and doing good deeds today.

Tune in to her interview with Mitchell Levy to experience David’s transformative wisdom on how leaders can genuinely embody their values.

To view the video interview click here.

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In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel dive into PRWeek’s “The Evolution of Influence” report, exploring the dynamic shifts in how public relations professionals exert influence in today’s fast-changing landscape. We break down the seven key themes revealed by the survey, including the growing challenges of decentralization, the increasing importance of AI in PR, and the ever-present threat of fake news and deepfakes. Join us as we unpack these insights and discuss how communicators can stay ahead of the curve in maintaining consumer trust, authenticity, and influence in a digital-first world.

Links from this episode

• New Notified/PRWeek Survey Sheds Light on the Evolving Nature of Influence

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, October 28.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #431: The Evolution of Influence appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of having clear alcohol policies in agencies. They explore the evolving norms of alcohol consumption in professional settings, the necessity of having written rules, and the implications for office events, client meetings, and expenses.

Drawing on their experiences and insights from expert Patrick Rogan of Ignition HR, the hosts emphasize the need for leadership to set examples and consider the legal and liability aspects of alcohol use. They suggest practical guidelines for limiting alcohol use to ensure professionalism and reduce risks. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 247: Balancing booze and your agency business appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Much of the content in this monthly long-form episode of FIR spotlights rising trends in marketing, including employee influencers, Gen Z’s rising power as influencers, the role of influencers in the 2024 U.S. presidential election, and AI’s growing presence in the marketing space. All of this is raising alarms about the need for marketers to be transparent and laser-focused on what matters to their stakeholders. Also in this episode: the dominance of chat podcasts and Dan York’s money-focused Tech Report.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, October 28.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Links from this episode:

• NotebookLM Drives AI Audio Conversations That Feel Human – NevilleHobson .com
• Gen Z powers the rise of the corporate influencer
• Will This Be The First Influencer Election?
• How to Do Meme Marketing, According to Memelord Jason Levin
• What is Meme Marketing and How to Use Memes to Boost Brand Voice
• What is Meme Marketing? Strategy, Benefits and Example
• Case Study: Learning a lesson in meme marketing with Unstop & Flipkart GRiD
• Silence, brand: Why McDonald’s meme marketing is a flop
• Why this meme marketing agency avoids hiring ad agency professionals
• Chat Podcasts Rule the Market—and Always Will
• The podcast listening habits of registered voters — Voxtopica
• How to Embrace Authenticity in a World Craving Transparency
• Products Labeled ‘AI Powered’ Could Alienate Consumers, Study Finds
• How Brands Can Embrace Authenticity in a World Craving Transparency
• Why being “real” is the new power play for CEOs
• Americans Want Labeling for AI Content

Links from Dan York’s Report:

• Introducing live video in the Substack app
• Substack is trying to turn its writers into streamers
• PE & Trademarks
• WP Engine is banned from WordPress.org
• The WCUS Closing I Wish We’d Had – Brian Coords
• WCUS: Freedom Isn’t Free – James Giroux
• Social Web Foundation Launched — How In Is W3C on Fediverse? – The New Stack
• On the Social Web Foundation
• Launch of the Social Web Foundation

The post FIR #430: Influencers, Memes, and AI Boost Marketing Transparency Mandate appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Debunkbot was designed to talk people out of their beliefs in conspiracy theories — and it works. To discuss this remarkable chatbot, we turned to PDF2Audio, which creates an audio podcast discussion (or summary or lecture) from any uploaded PDF. It’s not Google’s NotebookLM, which features a similar capability within a more robust note-keeping tool, nor does it replicate the easy-going, conversational flow that Notebook LM delivers. However, it offers multiple voices, avoiding the sameness of NotebookLM’s outputs. Both tools — though jaw-dropping — have flaws, but given that the technology is just months old, it’s not hard to imagine what it will be capable of in the next few years.

Links from this episode:

• Durably reducing conspiracy theories through dialogues with AI
• Meet ‘DebunkBot’: Can AI truly combat conspiracy theories?
• How an AI ‘debunkbot’ can change a conspiracy theorist’s mind
• NotebookLM
• NotebookLM Drives AI Audio Conversations That Feel Human (Neville Hobson)
• Christopher S. Penn’s LinkedIn post on NotebookLM
• PDF2Audio

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, September 30.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #429: Fake Podcasters Discuss Real Debunkbot appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Edelman, the global PR agency, has vetted the current crop of AI tools, winnowing out those not enterprise-ready, categorizing them, and identifying those that excel at various tasks. Given the dozens (if not more) of new AI tools that appear every day, this can be a big help to overwhelmed communicators who can’t take the time to try out every app that looks potentially useful. Does the report measure up to its promise? Find out in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• Edelman’s 2024 AI Landscape Report

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, September 30.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #428: Which AI Tool Is Best For What? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini explore the challenges of ageism within the PR and marketing industries, with a focus on agencies. They discuss the stereotypes associated with older professionals, particularly concerning their perceived familiarity with platforms like TikTok.

They emphasize the value of experience and the misconceptions around the cost of hiring experienced talent.

They advocate for creative solutions like flexible hiring and service delivery models including fractional roles to incorporate senior expertise while balancing the cost to clients and agencies alike.

Additionally, the conversation addresses the importance of continual professional development for current team members and offers advice to experienced job seekers on navigating ageism in their job search.

The co-hosts also offer insights for older, more experienced job-seekers on maintaining a positive presence in the job market and using one’s network effectively. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 246: Agencies and ageism appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The pressure’s on — deadlines, stakeholders, and the ever-present need to deliver. According to data, half of PR, marketing, and comms professionals reported experiencing severe stress, anxiety, or burnout multiple times each year. Two in five PR professionals feel pressure and/or anxiety from their job every day. And 60 percent of PR professionals have experienced mental ill-health, while 89 percent have struggled with mental well-being.

In episode 108 of the “Circle of Fellows,” the September panel will dive deep into mental wellness in the communication profession. Join us as a panel of seasoned IABC Fellows shares their insights and strategies for navigating the unique challenges of our profession. Discover how to cultivate resilience, manage stress, and lead with compassion, not only for your teams but also for yourself. Whether you’re an aspiring communicator or a seasoned pro, this conversation is essential for anyone seeking to thrive in the dynamic world of organizational communication.

Brad Whitworthmoderated the panel, joined by Amanda Hamilton-Attwell, Andrea Greenhous, Ginger Homan, and Mark Schumann.

About the panel:

Dr. Amanda Hamilton-Attwell, accredited by both IABC and PRSA. She is Managing Director of Business DNA, based in South Africa, which provides strategic research and consulting, including communication audits, customer service, and women’s leadership topics. She is licensed in Adobe Connect and WebEx, using these to conduct virtual professional learning and education sessions. and other focused research and training in communication skills. Her career has also included a 15-year stint as a research manager for the National Productivity Institute.

Andrea Greenhous’s life’s purpose is to improve the world of work. For over 30 years, she has helped organizations improve the employee experience and build workplaces where people thrive. As founder and president of Vision2Voice, an internal communications agency, Andrea and her dedicated team help organizations adopt a strategic approach to employee communications to achieve results. Andrea has led initiatives and transformation projects for Fortune 500 technology companies, large government departments, and organizations as diverse as construction, biotech, finance, and higher education. This has led to a signature approach emphasizing harnessing employee voices and amplifying their insights and ideas.

Andrea is a storyteller, a PROSCI-certified change leader, and Dare to Lead trained based on the work and research of Brené Brown. She is also a certified Fearless Organization Practitioner. She uses the tools and processes developed by Amy C. Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, to build psychological safety in teams. Andrea has been named one of the top 10 influencers in internal communications and is a frequent guest blogger and speaker at industry events.

Ginger Homan, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, counsels senior leaders seeking to bring out the best in their people and brands. Her award-winning communication model for driving transformation has been used to change behaviors, align cultures, and build thriving communities worldwide. Her work with senior communication professionals has enabled them to align their department goals with business goals, achieve measurable results, and expand their influence. Founder of Zia Communication, she is a seasoned speaker, coach, and workshop facilitator. Her clients include Walmart, the Walmart Foundation, the Walton Family Foundation, T.D. Williamson, CITGO Petroleum, Phillips Seminary, and MOSAIC. IABC, PRSA, and SMPS have honored Ginger’s work on the local, regional, and international levels. A past chair of IABC, her volunteer work has been honored with three IABC International Chair’s Awards for leadership, and she is a recipient of the Leadership Tulsa Paragon Award for work in her local community.

*Mark Schumann,* PCC, ABC, IABC Fellow, is a certified executive coach who teaches in the NYU Master’s program in executive coaching and organizational consulting. He is the co-author of Brand from the Inside and Brand for Talent. Mark has served as VP Culture for Sabre, Director of Graduate Communication Studies at the Zicklin School of Business at Baruch College in New York City, and as a managing principal and global communication practice leader at Towers Perrin. He was IABC’s chair in 2009-2010 and won 17 Gold Quill awards.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California, a wine country, and he grows Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes worldwide. Brad is a past board chairman of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

The post Circle of Fellows #108: Thriving in the Spotlight — Mental Wellness for Communication Leaders appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss results from the SAGA Q3 Agency Owner Survey. Despite a difficult year, the survey reveals widespread optimism among small agency owners regarding future revenue and profit growth. However, there is a noted contradiction, as not as many respondents plan to increase headcount.

The discussion highlights agency owners’ dissatisfaction with their business development efforts, scoring an average of 4.8 out of 10 in satisfaction. Effective tactics like podcast hosting and video content are underutilized, while traditional methods such as attending events and word-of-mouth continue to play significant roles.

The episode encourages owners to adopt more modern business development strategies and to be mindful of adequately resourcing their growing needs.

The full survey results are available for download on the SAGA website here. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 245: Q3 agency owner survey shows overall optimism, but dissatisfaction with state of business development appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this FIR Interview, consultant, writer, and science fiction enthusiast Ezri Carlebach offers a unique perspective on how speculative fiction can be a valuable tool in business leadership, innovation, and ethical decision-making in planning for the future. He discusses how sci-fi fosters imaginative thinking, helping organizations tackle complex challenges, including the ethical dilemmas posed by emerging technologies such as AI, biotech, and space travel.

Carlebach explains his concept of “Applied SF,” highlighting how storytelling and “what if” scenarios can drive creative solutions in strategic planning and leadership development. He explores the role of empathy and ethics in leadership, offering insights on how speculative fiction can inspire future-thinking and better decision-making. A key theme in the conversation is the ethical implications of new technologies. Carlebach argues that speculative fiction can help leaders engage more deeply with ethical issues, fostering empathy and better decision-making. He discusses how fiction, in general, has been shown to improve empathy and leadership, citing examples like Barack Obama, who attributed some of his leadership insights to reading novels.

Overall, the interview highlights the transformative power of speculative fiction in business, offering leaders new ways to think about the future, improve decision-making, and address ethical challenges. Carlebach emphasizes the importance of fostering imaginative capabilities within organizations to better navigate the complexities of modern innovation and leadership.

Whether you’re a sci-fi fan or a business leader, this interview provides a thought-provoking discussion at the intersection of fiction and business.

About Our Conversation PartnerEzri Carlebach is a multifaceted professional with extensive experience in various fields. He is a communication consultant, writer, editor, facilitator, and musician. His background includes senior communication roles in the public sector, and he has worked as a visiting lecturer at the University of Greenwich for six years, teaching social theory.

Additionally, he is a Fellow of the Royal Anthropological Institute and has coordinated AI and emerging technologies on the Institute’s Policy and Practice Committee.

Carlebach has also been involved in PR and communications for over 20 years and has founded the Climate Action Society at University College London. He is known for his expertise in countering conspiracy theories and has written about the power of words and stories to influence beliefs and behaviors.

Follow Ezri on LinkedIn

Links From This Interview

• Ezri Carlebach
• Wikipedia entry on Speculative fiction
• Why Business Leaders Need to Read More Science Fiction – Harvard Business Review
• Bill Gates Says this Sci-Fi Book Helped Him Develop the Mindset for Success – Experts Say He’s on to Something – Inc.com

The post FIR Interview: Ezri Carlebach on Speculative Fiction in Business appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini dismantle the myth that agency management can rely on a one-size-fits-all approach. They emphasize the importance of understanding the diversity and unique needs of different types of agencies, such as PR, ad, and digital agencies.

Chip and Gini discuss their experiences in various agency environments and highlight the influence of agency size and specialization on management strategies. They caution against blindly following advice from other agency owners or consultants without considering the specific context and needs of one’s own agency. They also stress the importance of tailoring roles and titles to actual needs rather than fixed hierarchies, revealing the potential pitfalls of title inflation and focusing too narrowly on prescribed roles like account or project managers. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 244: Why one-size-fits-all advice doesn’t work for agencies appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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When OpenAI released Chat GPT 3.5 in November 2022, conversations about virtually any other technology were sucked into the vacuum of space. Venture capitalists and other investors shifted priorities overnight, sinking billions into Gen AI and often turning their backs on other endeavors. That and the colossal failure that is Meta’s Horizon Worlds fueled a belief that the metaverse is dead.

It is not. Considerable work is still being done while well over 1 billion people use existing metaverse technologies. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel look at the state of the metaverse, which is more vibrant and active than you may have thought.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, September 30.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #427: The Metaverse Lives! Just Don’t Call It The Metaverse. appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of effective reporting for agencies.

Many agency leaders view reports as a necessary evil, but when done right they can actually become an important contributor to profits.

Chip and Gini recommend auditing existing reports to eliminate unnecessary ones and creating meaningful reports that directly influence business decisions. They also highlight the potential of leveraging AI to analyze and generate reports, ultimately transforming reporting from a mundane task into a profit center. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 243: Turning agency reporting into a profit center appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The pressure’s on — deadlines, stakeholders, and the ever-present need to deliver. According to data, half of PR, marketing, and comms professionals reported experiencing severe stress, anxiety, or burnout multiple times each year. Two in five PR professionals feel pressure and/or anxiety from their job every day. And 60 percent of PR professionals have experienced mental ill-health, while 89 percent have struggled with mental well-being.

In episode 108 of the “Circle of Fellows,” the September panel will dive deep into mental wellness in the communication profession. Join us as a panel of seasoned IABC Fellows shares their insights and strategies for navigating the unique challenges of our profession. Discover how to cultivate resilience, manage stress, and lead with compassion, not only for your teams but also for yourself. Whether you’re an aspiring communicator or a seasoned pro, this conversation is essential for anyone seeking to thrive in the dynamic world of organizational communication.

Brad Whitworth will moderate the panel at noon ET on Thursday, September 19, joined by Amanda Hamilton-Attwell, Andrea Greenhous, Ginger Homan, and Mark Schumann. If you watch the live stream, you can ask questions and share your experiences and observations. If you can’t make it to the live panel, you can watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast.

About the panel:

Dr. Amanda Hamilton-Attwell, accredited by both IABC and PRSA. She is Managing Director of Business DNA, based in South Africa, which provides strategic research and consulting, including communication audits, customer service, and women’s leadership topics. She is licensed in Adobe Connect and WebEx, using these to conduct virtual professional learning and education sessions. and other focused research and training in communication skills. Her career has also included a 15-year stint as a research manager for the National Productivity Institute.

Andrea Greenhous’s life’s purpose is to improve the world of work. For over 30 years, she has helped organizations improve the employee experience and build workplaces where people thrive. As founder and president of Vision2Voice, an internal communications agency, Andrea and her dedicated team help organizations adopt a strategic approach to employee communications to achieve results. Andrea has led initiatives and transformation projects for Fortune 500 technology companies, large government departments, and organizations as diverse as construction, biotech, finance, and higher education. This has led to a signature approach emphasizing harnessing employee voices and amplifying their insights and ideas.

Andrea is a storyteller, a PROSCI-certified change leader, and Dare to Lead trained based on the work and research of Brené Brown. She is also a certified Fearless Organization Practitioner. She uses the tools and processes developed by Amy C. Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, to build psychological safety in teams. Andrea has been named one of the top 10 influencers in internal communications and is a frequent guest blogger and speaker at industry events.

Ginger Homan, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, counsels senior leaders seeking to bring out the best in their people and brands. Her award-winning communication model for driving transformation has been used to change behaviors, align cultures, and build thriving communities worldwide. Her work with senior communication professionals has enabled them to align their department goals with business goals, achieve measurable results, and expand their influence. Founder of Zia Communication, she is a seasoned speaker, coach, and workshop facilitator. Her clients include Walmart, the Walmart Foundation, the Walton Family Foundation, T.D. Williamson, CITGO Petroleum, Phillips Seminary, and MOSAIC. IABC, PRSA, and SMPS have honored Ginger’s work on the local, regional, and international levels. A past chair of IABC, her volunteer work has been honored with three IABC International Chair’s Awards for leadership, and she is a recipient of the Leadership Tulsa Paragon Award for work in her local community.

*Mark Schumann,* PCC, ABC, IABC Fellow, is a certified executive coach who teaches in the NYU Master’s program in executive coaching and organizational consulting. He is the co-author of Brand from the Inside and Brand for Talent. Mark has served as VP Culture for Sabre, Director of Graduate Communication Studies at the Zicklin School of Business at Baruch College in New York City, and as a managing principal and global communication practice leader at Towers Perrin. He was IABC’s chair in 2009-2010 and won 17 Gold Quill awards.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California, a wine country, and he grows Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes worldwide. Brad is a past board chairman of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

The post Thriving in the Spotlight: Mental Wellness for Communication Leaders appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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“Share of model” refers to the frequency or prominence with which a particular brand, keyword, or phrase appears in an LLM’s responses to user prompts relative to competing brands or related terms. It measures how often and favorably an LLM mentions or discusses a specific entity or concept in its outputs. Marketers and PR practitioners were accustomed to measuring share of voice in search results as part of the SEO efforts. As searches shift to generative AI models, a new approach is needed. Hubspot has just introduced one, and Neville and Shel take a look at AI Search Grader in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• AI Search Grader
• AI Search Grader: A New Era in Brand Awareness and Sentiment Analysis
• From SEO to LMO: HubSpot launches the first free tool for AI discovery
• FIR #417: As AI Adoption Grows, Is Share of Model the New Metric?

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, September 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #426: We’ve Got Your Share of Model Right Here appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The desire to stand out has declined significantly over the last 20 years, according to a new study. That has serious implications for society, business, and communicators. Meanwhile, shutting off comments on your social media channel could have worse repercussions than putting up with comments you don’t want to see. Also in this episode, The fediverse is gaining traction, which leads one commentator to wonder if it’s time for governments to set up their own instances. Corporate boards are bracing for more anti-DEI backlash, but does that mean they’re backing away from their goals? Gen Z’s enthusiasm for Kamala Harris’s U.S. presidential bid is no accident, as her campaign cracks the content code, notably on TikTok. Generative Artificial Intelligence is changing the search engine optimization (SEO) game. In his Tech Report, Dan York reports on new Threads features, Spotify and YouTube taking Apple’s podcast crown, the photo manipulation capabilities of Google’s new Pixel 9 line of phones, and one company’s stand against AI.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, September 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Links from this episode:

• Fediverse for Freedom
• Fewer people want to stand out in public than 20 years ago
• Corporate boards brace for DEI backlash
• DEI efforts may be under attack, but companies aren’t retreating from commitments
• FIR #418: These Are Our Rock-Solid Beliefs – Unless You Don’t Like Them – FIR Podcast Network
• Research: What Happens When Influencers Turn Off Comments
• You’re Wrong, Joel Spolsky & Dave Winer, Blog Comments Have Incredible Value
• Inside the Gen-Z operation powering Harris’ online remix
• Content is king at the DNC
• Kamala Harris’ Campaign Is Launching a Twitch Channel
• How the Harris Campaign Beat Trump at Being Online
• US election: Meet the Kamala Harris influencer army
• Kamala Harris’ Campaign Is a Windfall for Influencers
• ‘Hottie’ Dems and Chappell Roan stans: meet the 200 TikTokers who scored access to the convention
• 57+ MILLION VIEWERS: Massive TV and Online Viewership for Night One of Democratic National Convention
• The Evolution of Search: 5 SEO Trends in 2024 and 2025 [+ New Data]
• Ethan Mollick on LinkedIn: I have said it before, but marketers need to think about how to advertise

Links from Dan York’s Tech Report:

• Meta’s X rival Threads gains multiple drafts, audience insights and more
• Meta lets you cross-post from Instagram and Facebook to Threads. Here’s how to do it.
• Threads confirms it is experimenting with ephemeral posts
• Apple Loses Its Podcasting Lead to YouTube and Spotify
• No one’s ready for this
• Procreate takes a stand against generative AI, vows to never incorporate the tech into its products

Raw Transcript (from Riverside.fm)

Neville Hobson:
Hi everyone and welcome to episode 425 of Four Immediate Release. This is the long form monthly edition for August 2024. I’m Neville Hobson.

Shel Holtz (00:18)
And I’m Shel Holtz. We have six fascinating stories to discuss over the course of this episode. We’re going to be talking about some interesting activity in the Fetiverse. Whether or not people want to stand out is a fascinating research report that could have serious implications on communication. Great stories beyond that. Dan York is here with a tech report talking about

some activity on threads, among other things. Before we jump into all of that though, Neville, let’s review the episodes that we’ve recorded since the last monthly episode.

@nevillehobson (01:02)
Yeah. Yeah, we have recorded not as many as the previous month. We recorded three episodes since the last monthly episode 420 from July. So let’s start with that one. That one was the lead topic in that episode was that company CrowdStrike and that dreadful internet outages that occurred that had significant consequences around the world.

We asked how well did CrowdStrike handle its crisis? And we looked at their response and shared what some crisis experts have said and had that discussion ourselves. And we have a comment, don’t we, Shale?

Shel Holtz (01:46)
We do from Michelle Garrett, who goes by PR writer gal on threads, where we shared the episode on threads and asked whether CrowdStrike has handled their crisis communications well. She said, I haven’t listened yet, but I’m going to go out on a limb regarding did CrowdStrike deliver by saying no.

@nevillehobson (02:08)
That would, I would say, be a valid view at the time she made the view. I think they’ve actually, it’s turned out where they’ve actually done quite well in terms of crisis communication, wouldn’t you say?

Shel Holtz (02:21)
I think in terms of how they have handled this from a communication standpoint, yes, I think they’ve done an admirable job. They’ve made a couple of missteps, the gift cards, as the coupons as a mea culpa, I thought was a misstep, but overall they have been candid and open and accessible and honest about what happened and what they’re gonna do to fix it.

@nevillehobson (02:32)
coupon.

So episode 421 that we published a week after that, Gen .ai is paying off individual employees. We dug into a Gartner report along with a Washington Post study that ranks how individuals are using generative AI. And we have a comment for that too, don’t we?

Shel Holtz (03:08)
We do. Steve Lubeckin wrote that it seems like it’s reminiscent of the early days when companies wouldn’t let you use certain software and employees figured out ways to bootleg the software they needed to get the job done. I’m even seeing this with companies that block business units from using video platforms like Riverside FM but allow vendors to use it on behalf of the employees.

@nevillehobson (03:31)
good comments, Steve. So 422, we recorded that one and published it a week after that, 14th. Could AI be the nail in the coffin for the billable hour model, we asked. We examined the state of consulting in the AI age. And really it was to do with killing that model.

We had some slightly different views on that, think, show that we’re broadly in agreement that something is shifting, moving from time based fee structures to outcome based fee structures that are based on what the client, let’s say, as an example, estimates the value the work you’re going to do would give to his or her company and you work out a fee on that basis.

I’m not seeing, you know, a stampede to change, but you this is change and people don’t like change. It might take a while, but an interesting idea. We don’t have any comments to that one. And then 423, which we published just a week ago, titled as op -eds fade into history, where does thought leadership belong? And we discussed the state of thought leadership and the channels communicators may not be considering. And we do have a comment.

Shel Holtz (04:47)
from Frank Strong, who said the statistics were interesting. I certainly find Wall Street Journal opinion pieces are ungated. It’s not all of them, but maybe the ones they think everyone should read. That probably helps with the visibility, which is probably true. It’s not that op -eds are going away entirely. It’s just that a number of publications are either eliminating or shuttering the opinion sections. So there are fewer of them, but the Wall Street Journal…

Op -Ed space is prime real estate and I’m sure it’ll be with us for years to come.

@nevillehobson (05:21)
I noticed that in UK mainstream media too, opinion pieces, many, in newspapers like the Times, the Daily Telegraph sometimes, The Guardian tends to be completely open. They don’t block you, they kind of nudge you to sign up for free so you can access all the content. But the Times, the Sunday Times have started doing that.

which is, think, a good move. I subscribe to US papers like the New York Times, which give you the option to gift an article. But I’ve noticed too, like you said, the Wall Street Journal recently, I don’t subscribe to the journal. And of course, you get disappointed when you go somewhere and presents you with the login or register. But recently, there’s a couple of things I’ve been looking at, which are open completely. Bloomberg’s another one. They’re the gatekeepers par excellence of Bloomberg. But recently, I’ve seen a number of opinion pieces.

that are open. So maybe they are looking at the way the land is lying in this regard.

Shel Holtz (06:22)
Yeah, and it’s important to note that publications, media outlets that publish opinions don’t necessarily publish op -eds, which are opinions from people from outside the organization. Now, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post, they’re going to publish op -eds. In fact, some very noteworthy politicians have been publishing op -eds lately as we’re in our endless presidential cycle.

But that doesn’t mean that all of those publications that used to do it, which would be the prime targets for a lot of thought leaders out there. And this includes, by the way, trade publications and industry publications that just don’t have the financial resources to maintain those sections anymore. Those are drying up. So I think it’s still important for communicators that work with thought leaders or manage thought leader efforts in the organization

find alternative channels for that content that produces the same kinds of results, gets the same kind of visibility.

@nevillehobson (07:25)
sense. So I’d also like to mention that we are restarting or kickstarting, let’s say, the FIR interviews podcast. This is a separate podcast. So if you subscribe to this podcast, you won’t get the interviews, you need to subscribe to that one separately. But we started the interviews in July 2006, long time ago.

Shel Holtz (07:50)
you

@nevillehobson (07:52)
It’s a separate podcast I mentioned to present conversations we host with newsmakers and influencers from the online technology and organizational communication worlds. That was the description we had back then. I think it’s still largely accurate now. I mentioned we’re kickstarting it anew with new episodes planned on a monthly basis. Our first was on August 12th, mid August with Pete Paschal, founder and CEO of the Media Co -Pilot. We explored the intersection of AI and media with a focus on how

Generative AI Influencers, Social Media Journalism and Brand Engagement. Next month, September, we’ll publish another episode, this one with Esri Karlovaak, a UK -based consultant on international multidisciplinary projects in business innovation and stakeholder engagement with clients that include UN and EU agencies, arts and cultural institutions, non -profit organizations and a wide range of businesses. I first met Esri about 15 years ago when we were both active in IBC volunteerism.

He’s also a keen advocate for science fiction as the literature of new ideas. And that’s the focus of our discussion in that interview coming up. While it doesn’t predict the future, he says, it can improve how we think about and prepare for the future. He’ll expand on that thought in our conversation. He’ll also tell us about applied SF and how a genre typically associated with entertainment can work in other ways. So don’t miss out on FI interviews. Sign up or…

to subscribe to the feed, go to firpodcastnetwork .com slash fir dash interview so you won’t miss a thing. You should be able to pick it up too on wherever you get your podcasts, whatever app you’re using or platform you’re using. But it’s definitely good. We’re keen to get this going again because we’ve got a list already of some really interesting people, including ideas we have to revisit some of the folks we interviewed back at that time.

from 2006, say to 2016, and a bit later, perhaps, who’ve got updated stories to tell, I’m sure. So look out for more news on that. But like I said, FIRpodcast .net, sorry, FIRpodcast.

Shel Holtz (10:04)
firpodcastnetwork .com slash.

@nevillehobson (10:06)
Yeah, that’s the one. FIRpodcastnetwork .com slash FIR dash interviews. That’s where you go.

Shel Holtz (10:14)
And you say that we’re going to do this monthly and that’s the plan. But if we have the opportunity to talk to somebody, it arises and it’s just too good to skip, then we may end up doing more than one a month. You never know. That wait and see. We did record an episode of Circle of Fellows in August. This is on the

@nevillehobson (10:27)
We may, you never know. Stay tuned.

Shel Holtz (10:38)
topic of raising AI, which focused on getting AI up and running and thriving in your organization. So we had a great international panel, Adrian Cropley, Sue Heumann, Mary Hills, and Robin McCasland. It was really an invigorating conversation. We had a lot of people participating in real time. So we were able to incorporate their questions and comments into the conversation. So.

If you are working with your IT department or in the IT department and trying to get people to adopt AI in the organization, this is a good episode to listen to. The next one is coming up on September 19th at noon Eastern time. I am going to be away for that one. So Brad Whitworth will be the moderator and it’ll be talking about mental wellness and how communication leaders can maintain their mental wellness amidst all the stress.

of the job. Participating in that one will be Amanda Hamilton Atwell, Ginger Homan, Andrea Greenhouse, and Mark Schaeffer. So that will be a good episode too, and a bit of a divergence from the topics that we usually look at on Circle of Fellows. I’m happy to see mental wellness being addressed more frequently and in more forums these days.

@nevillehobson (12:00)
Terrific. So I guess we dive into our conversational topics now. So I’ve got the first story, which I find this really fascinating, Shell. Last week, I wrote a post on my blog that discussed the unraveling of X, I described it, suggested by a large migration of UK users from that platform, mostly to threads and blue sky. The trigger.

was the riots in the UK in early August that have made headlines globally, where social networks, X in particular, played a major role in stoking the unrest. Elon Musk’s supportive comments of the rioters stimulated disgust among many people here, which directly influenced the migration and included a number of members of parliament. The post prompted some discussion, mostly on threads, including one comment from my friend Andy Piper, a technologist, writer and podcaster.

He was a developer advocate at Twitter for nine years, leaving in early 2023 after Elon Musk finalized his acquisition in 2022. Before Twitter, he spent 10 years as a technical consultant at IBM and was involved in various open source projects. Today, he supports the Mastodon open source projects with developer relations and community building tasks. Andy’s comments suggested the idea of creating a sovereign owned and operated Mastodon instance for the UK parliament.

He then followed up on that with a blog post on his blog titled Fediverse for Freedom, in which he discusses in detail the importance of governments owning and operating their own social media platforms, such as a Macedon instance or any Fediverse compatible activity pub based service. He argues that relying on privately owned platforms gives corporations undue control over national communication and data.

He speaks of growing interest in Fediverse platforms and technologies like Mastodon from several national governments in Europe and the EU itself. Many of these institutions are already running their own social media instances, he says, and actively encouraging their politicians to use them. He highlights how the EU has already embraced decentralization through Mastodon and emphasizes that the UK should follow suit to ensure digital sovereignty, protect democratic processes.

and maintain control of a public discourse. He says, if governments are concerned about the dominance of privately owned online platforms, they have a responsibility to run and own their own. Andy acknowledges the challenges and considerations to this idea, including the financial and technical resources required to maintain these platforms and the need to ensure wide discoverability and engagement. Additionally, there are complexities in determining who should be allowed to have accounts.

on these sovereign platforms. For example, while it makes sense for members of parliament to have accounts, would it be extended to political parties or other entities? He underscores that while these challenges are significant, the importance of maintaining democratic integrity and avoiding corporate chokeholds on communication channels outweighs these concerns. So what next? To take Andy Piper’s idea to the next level, a feasible course of action could be to form a coalition of UK government officials

digital policymakers and technology experts to initiate a pilot project to establish a sovereign Macedon instance for parliament. This would involve securing funding, setting up the infrastructure and defining clear guidelines for participation. The goal would be to demonstrate the benefits of digital sovereignty and expand the model to other public institutions, ultimately creating a decentralized government operated social network that safeguards democratic communication and public trust. Could a call to action like this happen?

As Andy notes in a comment in his own post, I’m just staking out the ground that an open standards based decentralized and not privately owned set of capabilities is better than handing over those channels to a private third party. So it seems to me that this is worthy of greater discussion if a pilot project is reaching too far at the moment. As the saying goes, where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Shel Holtz (16:15)
think this is an outstanding idea and I fully support it. I would love to see it implemented elsewhere around the globe. think, I mean, it solves a lot of problems. And the fact that we have the Fediverse available now is what makes this feasible because not a lot of people are going to add a new social network.

@nevillehobson (16:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Shel Holtz (16:39)
to the ones that they are already engaged with. They’re not going to say, the UK government has a social network. I think I’ll go sign up there and make sure I can check that every day in addition to Facebook and threads and whatever other networks are already following. But here, because it’s in the Fediverse, they can see it where they are and stay on top of this information. And presumably the information would include things like, please be aware of this misinformation.

that’s being shared. This is the official instance of the UK government. And we’re telling you that this is not for real. This is a deep fake or this is Russian influence or whatever it might be. having that authoritative voice coming from an own service in the peso model, what they’re doing right now by being on threads or what have you is it’s shared.

just like any social media, you’re sharing somebody else’s space, but suddenly you’re doing the same kind of engagement in the same kind of platform, but it’s now owned media. And I think that’s a big deal. I think there are a lot of questions that have to be addressed. Not only does the party participate, what about staff? For example, I think about the US maintaining a mastodon instance or setting up an instance of one of the

other services that accommodates the Fediverse and is every Senate aide going to be able to participate? Every House committee employee, not the elected officials, but the employees who work there. So, I mean, they’re the ones doing the research. They’re the ones writing the legislation and writing the reports. So they have a lot to contribute. On the other hand, nobody elected them. So, I mean, there’s…

these types of issues that I think would have to be overcome and dealt with. And it would obviously be instance by instance that those things are considered. And you also, of course, have, are you going to have states with instance and within the states, are you going to have cities with instances and counties? You could end up with an awful lot of instances, but for people who care about what that particular entity is doing legislatively, regulatory wise,

I think they’d be thoroughly pleased to be able to follow them just like they used to follow on Twitter, but know that what they’re looking at is authoritative. So I love the idea.

@nevillehobson (19:14)
Yeah, I find it extremely appealing, I must admit. Here in the UK, of course, I’ve already anticipated what’s likely to come with this idea in some quarters. we have this big thing in the UK that people call the nanny state interference from government, know, too much interference in your daily lives and rules and regulations and stuff. So I can imagine the calls call outs on this. Yet, you’ve you’ve mentioned something I think which is

Shel Holtz (19:31)
Yeah, yeah.

@nevillehobson (19:43)
probably three levels up, i .e. this then becomes a huge entity that has got all these different people and groups on it. That may well be where it goes to. But starting out though, and the pilot idea would make it very straightforward, I think, to prove the point or not, or disprove it even, that this is worthwhile and address the critics.

So you’re not rolling it out suddenly to all at once. This is, you know, everything everywhere all at once kind of approach. This is actually a pilot where you might start with a group of MPs, but your point, I think, is a valid one. This should also include the staffers, the support infrastructure for those members of parliament and others, the, you know, the people who work behind the scenes in government, particularly in central government. And that’s where it sits for a while, until you prove the value of it.

I think the key thing about it, which Andy does take pains to point out, is the trust aspect to it, which is totally aligned with addressing misinformation, disinformation and fakery at large, where because it’s on the Fediverse, anyone who has an account to handle at the Fediverse location at the instance, is still able to engage and talk to anyone else out there, anywhere else on the Fediverse.

And now as we see coming, and indeed, Dan York is going to talk about this in his report about the developments at threads to connect things more with the Fediverse, that we now have the opportunity, and it didn’t exist until now, as an easy means to do something like this that is private on one hand, but at the other hand is very open because it’s connected to.

public feds of us, but you’ve got the safeguards there. It’s almost like a by osmosis, you got a transparent two way process to it, but you control in a way that people have belief in the authenticity and the trustworthiness of the entity that you’re representing. So you’ll have a member of parliament could be you know, I’m not saying this is a domain name, it could be parliament dot social, it could be something dot parliament, whatever, whatever the technical aspects of it.

are that make it worthwhile. I’ve not seen examples, Andy mentions these in his post, of institutions in the European Union who are doing this already, decentralized social network of their own. I’d love to see examples and hear how they’re going with those. But I do believe that, you know, I say to myself, why not do a pilot? Talk about it, sure, but get something going, it can be a very small group.

Why not try it out? This seems a great idea. And like you said, Shell, this is not the ideas coming out of the UK and relate specifically to the UK parliament. This could be anywhere. And I think, you know, does it could it suggest perhaps that we suddenly end up with something that would be seen by many to be it was like a parallel internet? Maybe. Is that a bad thing? I mean, the internet is arguably in a precarious

precipitous position of being splintered by state actors, by governments, notably Russia, China, for instance. Would it not be a bad thing if this was somehow embraced that way? again, that’s a bigger argument, perhaps, down another route. But this does have merit. think this idea is definitely worth talking about.

Shel Holtz (23:15)
Yeah, I’ll be accessible over the Internet. It’s not like you’d have to find a different way to connect to a whole different network. But one of the things that I think would be vital to making these things work would be to be very clear about what the role of this network is. Otherwise, I mean, if we had a U .S. Senate instance that had Republican and Democratic senators in it, it would turn into, in short order, some

@nevillehobson (23:42)
Ha ha ha.

Shel Holtz (23:45)
pretty vitriolic back and forth on this or not.

@nevillehobson (23:48)
Or not, or not as the case might be. I’m optimistic here, I’m optimistic here, okay.

Shel Holtz (23:54)
Yes, let’s let’s be optimistic. But I mean, in any country where there are two opposing factions sharing a network, that’s not the point of this. Right. It would have to be clear this is for sharing information and soliciting feedback from our constituents. This is this is not a partisan type of.

@nevillehobson (24:14)
Right, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be just that because you could have private aspects to all of this because you’re behind your own firewall in a sense that so you the rules of engagement you might set out. And maybe the and I’m thinking of taking getting everyone to shift from this toxic place we call X now that is not fit for purpose and looking at some of the comments I’ve read from some of the MPs who have quit.

And more significantly, some of the general folks who’ve migrated away and arrived on threats, set aside some of the rather hysterical comments about things, but some sensible comments. And even some from people saying, you know, I’ve given up 80 ,000 followers on X to come here and I’m starting over. What a sense of relief that kind of comment is repeated everywhere. And I’m thinking this could well be a way to

to kickstart a change in the toxicity that we’re seeing notably on X. It’s not the only place, but X by far is way out there. Even its proprietor is part of the toxicity and maybe and he’s not going anywhere anytime soon unless his investors boot him out. mean, reading in financial press about some of his investors are not happy at all with the 44 billion that they lent him. So who knows what’s going to happen there? But

I’m seeing things that, you know, he’s cancelling, he’s closing down all the operations in Brazil because of some legal rulings down there. doesn’t like it, right? We shut down. So you’re treading on as a user, particularly a business user or a political user on a platform, that treading on very thin ice, it could all suddenly cave in or suddenly restrictions will happen. It’s not a place for the future at all. So this could well give impetus to

people migrating en masse to a better looking place as long as it strikes, hence a pilot to see. This is not a rushed thing. This might take a while.

Shel Holtz (26:14)
And I think that you’re starting to see on threads the formation informally grassroots of a lot of communities. There’s journalism threads. I’ve been posting to internal comms threads and communities are building around these and people are introducing themselves. They’re saying, hi, journalism threads. I’m a reporter with, so that’s happening on threads where I see these instances having some real value is coming out and saying, let’s say we have a US Senate.

@nevillehobson (26:32)
Yeah.

Shel Holtz (26:42)
instance on mastodon. It would be saying today, Senate Bill 47 was introduced. These are the authors. Here’s a link to where you can read the whole bill. But in essence, this is what it’s designed to do. We would like your input. Let’s have some public comment. And it wouldn’t necessarily replace other channels for public comment. But you might start getting a lot of engagement from people who haven’t participated.

through the more onerous channels and the more formal channels that are available to people. So I think for listening, this could be a really powerful thing and government could stand some listening.

@nevillehobson (27:09)
Yep, you might.

Yeah, they could everywhere. Absolutely. I think it definitely is a great idea that Andy’s taken the time to write his post. I would encourage you to visit his blog, read the post, we’ll have a link to it in the show notes and see what you make of it and add your voice to is this worth it.

Shel Holtz (27:39)
Well, there are certain aspects of business that depend on people wanting to stand out and be noticed when designing certain types of products. Think fashion or cars, for example, product designers appeal to the desire of customers and prospective customers to stand out from the crowd. Ditto consulting services in a lot of instances, even something as simple as a gymnasium appeals to people who want to look good.

And when we market these products or services, we rely on everything from user -generated content to influencers, all people who have taken steps to distinguish themselves from the crowd. So what would happen if we suddenly learned that people are more interested in being part of the crowd than standing out? That’s a growing number of people, according to a new study that tracked over a million people’s desire to stand out or be unique.

from 2000 until 2020 and found a dramatic decline. This study provides some of the first evidence -based data comparing people’s motivation to stand out in today’s hyper -digital world compared to the early 2000s. The study looked at three dimensions of uniqueness, concern about how other people are gonna react to what you say or do or share, desire to break the rules, and the willingness to defend your beliefs in public.

All three facets declined, but the most dramatic were people being hesitant to defend their beliefs publicly. That fell 6 .52 percent and becoming more concerned with what people think about you, which fell 4 .28 percent. The status suggests that individuals see that expressing uniqueness might compromise their ability to fit in with others or may even lead to being ostracized. The lead author of the study is William Chopic.

an associate professor in the psychology department at Michigan State University. And he says, a 6 .52 % decline is a dramatic population change in as short as 20 years. Our data confirms a lot of institutions, lot of intuitions that people have. It’s not just in their heads that we inhabit punitive spaces. Indeed, people are afraid of drawing too much attention to themselves, potentially because doing so leaves them vulnerable.

or at risk of being ostracized or canceled. This study acknowledges that people have valid fears and concerns about standing out so much so that they’re willing to, they’re less willing to do so. Now the researchers say that this decline in wanting to stand out has major societal implications. According to Chalpik, it’s really important to have people willing to go against the grain, say the occasional unpopular thing, challenge groupthink, highlight the need to compromise with people different than us.

and not cover up the diversity of options and opinions and people because they’re too scared to stand out. Withholding who we authentically are by trying so hard to blend in can ironically backfire and lead to guilt, anxiety, and sometimes even more animosity between people. Now, the societal implications are considerable if people aren’t willing to stand out, but communicators have their more immediate concerns. If you need to encourage people to stand out, what can you do?

Well, you can create campaigns that encourage customers to showcase their unique style or creativity. People may respond to a request more than just motivate themselves to put themselves out there. You can work with your influencers to get them to encourage their followers to stick their necks out. You can share stories from stakeholders that express their uniqueness or how they stand out, even if they didn’t think that was the point of the story. Encouraging reviews and testimonials is another way.

to get people to put themselves out there in a more benign way, contests or another. Neville, I know you’re not too concerned about standing out, but how would you go about getting someone else to, who maybe used to be more willing, but is now being more circumspect about it?

@nevillehobson (31:42)
It’s a good question. think I would start really by saying, what do we mean by standing out in public? I’ve never looked at it this way, I have to say myself even. So I don’t really think about doing something that makes me stand out. I do think about things that I’ve got a point of view, and I’m not afraid to express it, even if it might not be popular, although that’s rare, to be honest, I don’t do politics publicly in public spaces.

rarely, I might comment on as I did at the UK election, talking about poll results and stuff like that. But I certainly tend not to venture opinion about this or that person or this or that policy about a company or a government agency or whatever it might be on a public place. And the last place I’d even consider that is X that’s effect. But I do tend to kind of show my true self if you will, in private groups.

notably on LinkedIn and sometimes on Facebook. Facebook ones tend to be more personal stuff that really does interest me. know, automotive, software, WordPress, a lot of that. And so I don’t see it as standing out. Maybe that’s, I’ve never really looked at that way. And I truly don’t care about what people think of me at all. I don’t, I honestly don’t. I could care less.

in the broad sense, not to sound too kind of arrogant or silly about it. But I don’t post myself on the basis of I hope someone’s going to like this and therefore by some by some some kind of subconscious method, they’ll like me to know that never occurs to be that kind of thinking. So to your point to your question,

someone who’s not doing this, it truly would be a it depends. It certainly isn’t Hey, you need to get out there and expose yourself more to different opinions and so forth and join in conversation online. I wouldn’t recommend that to anyone at all. It would depend on the like the famous it depends answer. What your goal is, what is it that you’re going to engage in conversation with what you expect to gain from it. But the survey is interesting. I have to admit when I was reading it, the

talk about being canceled or being ostracized. mean, really, that to me sounds pretty extreme. I’d certainly see that as probably a good thing if it was to do with someone who did something really bad in others’ eyes or was a jerk or something. good example might be, for instance, currently a hot topping in the news in the UK, a footballer in a Premier League team, now a presenter on one of the BBC shows and the sports.

presenter amongst across a wide range of media outlets. I was fired by the BBC last week. It was all a bit mysterious over complaints made about sexually oriented messaging sent to female colleagues. And he denied it and get lawyers on you. So this made the headlines for three or four days. And now today is all apologizing, say you made a mistake. It was very silly. Then I’m reading online.

that this that company that company three other companies all cancel the contracts the PR agency who handled him have fired him as well and his reputation is gone. He has been canceled without any doubt. But that was because he did something that goes against the norms of accepted behavior everywhere, particularly in this current climate where again, this is the power of social networks that amplify the reaction to someone who does something really bad.

So there’s that and that I see fits definitely in this, but that’s an extreme example. So from a business point of view, particularly, think, you know, I’d say to someone think twice, be careful if you’re going to go out there and put yourself out there as I’ve got an opinion about X and here it is. One reason I tend not to do that is just simply observing what happens to others who do do that on a public channel like X.

that you get the trolls, everyone with a grudge, you name it, or just nasty people pile in. And I think there’s absolutely no benefit to anyone to be part of that situation at all. So I think you need to be really careful doing this.

Shel Holtz (35:54)
One of the things that this study didn’t get into that I could read was the cause for this decline. And I have to wonder if the heightened vitriol in social networks has something to do with it. mean, 20 years ago, 24 years ago now in 2020, when they started tracking this data, you could get out there and talk about how you feel about something, what you think about something, your opinion without

@nevillehobson (36:08)
Yeah, I bet.

Shel Holtz (36:23)
worrying too much about being trolled for it or attacked or vilified for it. On the other hand, I think back to things that were going on in 2020, go, no, that was happening back then. mean, this is not new. And then I remember I was listening to an episode of a podcast. It’s a podcast I love called 99 % Invisible. And they were talking about the paint color for cars. And

the fact that these days there are really only about four or five colors available. And the most popular color, you want to guess the most popular? I think this was in the US, but I would suspect that it might be true in the UK. What’s the number one selling color of new cars? It’s white. And I remember when I was growing up, cars were all colors. It was the full spectrum of the rainbow.

@nevillehobson (37:11)
What? Yeah.

Yeah.

Shel Holtz (37:21)
And now you got white, black, gray, tan, maybe a metallic blue or something, but not a lot of color. And why? It’s because, and they were explicit about this, the experts that they had on this episode, they said, because people don’t want to stand out. They don’t want to be the red car on the road. They want to look like all the other cars on the road. And when I was growing up, everybody wanted to stand out. They wanted their car to be different.

@nevillehobson (37:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

Shel Holtz (37:51)
So there’s probably something else going on here that is not necessarily to do with trends in social media.

@nevillehobson (38:01)
Yeah, I think it is a societal issue. think it talks about the survey, you know, the facets they talk about declining, the most dramatic people’s being hesitant to defend their beliefs publicly. And then there’s a bit about being concerned about what people think of the hesitant to defend their beliefs publicly is in my example, you don’t do that because you will not have reasonable comments challenging you.

You might get lots agreeing with you, but you’re going to get an awful lot who are in false rage and outrage attacking you to the extent that it’s now common to hear people saying that, know, I’ve canceled my, I’ve shut down my account and so forth because I said this and said that and I started getting death threats or even message people say, we know where you live. mean, God, this has really got to that state. So that, right.

Shel Holtz (38:56)
flat out doxing you and sharing where you live.

@nevillehobson (38:59)
Right, and I think this is likely to be a significant reason for that decline.

Shel Holtz (39:05)
For communicators, again, this is a trend. It’s a 20 year trend. It’s precipitous. The numbers are significant. And if your products and services rely on this, or if your marketing relies on it, it’s just something to start thinking about.

@nevillehobson (39:23)
Well, in episode 418 of this podcast in mid -July, we discussed how a company called Tractor Supply caved into pressure from a politically motivated activist to abandon its values, leading some employees to quit and diverse members of the company’s customer base to speak up. We were quite critical of the company’s U -turn on DEI, that’s diversity, equity and inclusion. Titling the show notes for that episode, these are our rock solid beliefs, unless you don’t like them.

Well, it’s more in a similar vein, according to a report by Axios published on the 22nd of August. The report highlights how corporate executives and boards are intensifying their communication strategies to brace for potential attacks from activists, increasingly linking business performance with DEI policies. This preparation is driven by the growing political and social backlash against DEI initiatives, which Axios says have become a contentious issue in the corporate world.

Many companies are finding themselves under pressure as activists argue that DEI policies may negatively impact business outcomes, leading to more aggressive scrutiny of these programs. Some corporations in the US, such as Harley Davidson and John Deere, have already started to scale back their DEI commitments in response to the pressure. Axios says this trend suggests that the business community is increasingly concerned about the potential risks associated with maintaining robust DEI initiatives.

in the current polarized environment. Axios’s report suggests that for many public companies, the question is not whether they will face attacks related to their DEI policies, but when. As a result, there is a heightened focus on how these companies communicate about their DEI efforts, both internally and externally to mitigate potential fallout and maintain stakeholder confidence. But does this reflect a complete picture, I wonder? DEI efforts may be under attack.

But companies aren’t retreating from commitments, according to the results of a survey reported in USA Today in July, that you discovered, Shel. So maybe the overall picture is more complex than it appears.

Shel Holtz (41:32)
Yeah, I think what you get is a lot of reporting by anecdote when a company the size of a John Deere, a Harley Davidson, Microsoft is another one that has announced that they were closing up some of their DEI departments and shifting their focus. A lot of it based on their claiming that they have achieved some of those goals. I don’t know if that’s necessarily accurate. I think if you ask some of the…

protected classes in the organization. they’ve achieved equity, they might push back on that. But the study from USA Today was conducted by the Association of Corporate Citizenship Professionals and your cause from BlackBod and shared exclusively with USA Today found that 96 % of corporate social impact professionals in 125 major companies

say DEI commitments have either stayed the same, that’s 83%, or increased, that’s 13%. So across the business spectrum, it doesn’t seem that this anti -woke backlash that has led these companies to retreat is having that big an impact on that many businesses. However,

Nearly a third of the executives that were surveyed say they are describing DEI work differently now. 17 % said they talk about it less with people outside the organization. So I think people recognize that this is a contentious issue and how they frame it externally in conversation. They’re being a little more cautious about it, but they are continuing to pursue.

pursue those DEI goals internally. And the reason is, I am convinced this isn’t what is reflected in this report, but I have to believe it’s because it’s good business. It’s because you get better results when you do this. Your company performance is better. Your productivity is up. Your culture improves. I’ve never heard an organization say,

that we got better business results. I’ll take that back. know Tractor Supply actually had their stock price go up when they did this. I’m not sure what that says about their investors. So there are outliers and anomalies in this case, but mostly what you see in the data is that diversity pays off. And that’s why I don’t see this as a woke issue or an anti -woke issue. It’s just a good business issue.

@nevillehobson (43:54)
You

Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I was reading the USA Today story that you’re referencing, and I’m actually a bit surprised Axios didn’t didn’t didn’t take in some of the stuff in this survey that the USA Today is, is commenting on their report came out in July accidents came out just a few days ago. So it’s puzzled me a bit, because USA Today does go into detail, for instance, about john Deere, talking about what they are now doing. What

What is the backlash producing? That’s quite interesting. It’s missing from Exos’s report. So maybe they just plucked that bit out, which seems to be what they’ve done, I think. But it does mention, though, that in the examples of those who are changing behavior as a result of the backlash, that they’re stepping away from being open and talking about their DEI initiatives.

that were all a big deal until very recently. So they are worried about this kind of publicity, I suppose, and activism that is going on. That’s reflective, I suppose, think about what we just discussed in the topic prior to this, that it’s kind of fits into that too, about the concern about you be attacked for something. And it’s noble what you’re doing, and it’s worthy, and yet there’s a pile of people externally who will hound you because of it.

and come up with all sorts of statistics and support articles to show why you’re bad. That’s new, I suspect, in the sense of it’s now completely scalable and global. Anyone with an internet connection can read all that kind of stuff. So it is a backlash. And indeed, USA Today talks about DEI policies were rushed into existence in 2020 and 2021, and they’re now increasingly out of the microscope. So maybe there’s something in there about, these rushed out too fast?

The interesting thing though, I think in the USA Today report as well, I mean, it’s all very interesting, is the alarm bells that I see, as opposed to hear, I I see alarm bells in what they’re saying, is what’s going to happen if Trump wins the US presidential election. The headline in their subhead piece talks about Trump and Vance talk about dismantling DEI. And he’s promised to reverse

as he calls it, the Biden administration’s woke equity programs, as Trump describes them. Every institution in America is under attack from this Marxist concept of equity. Good grief. So that’s what’s coming if this guy wins. And so I think this is possibly also a factor in organizational behavior to the activism, perhaps. don’t know. It’s probably more complex picture than that, Shell, but it certainly isn’t good.

Shel Holtz (46:50)
Yeah.

I suspect if you ask Donald Trump to define Marxism, he wouldn’t be able to give you a coherent answer. But this is an interesting

@nevillehobson (47:04)
Which is worse if he wins because he’ll be in office having a clue what he’s doing, right?

Shel Holtz (47:08)
That’s right. But this is an interesting tightrope to walk because on the one hand, you do have these forces that have framed this as an anti -woke activity, trying to put an end to DEI. They have framed all kinds of negative outcomes from DEI that I don’t believe are accurate or even honest.

@nevillehobson (47:13)
Yeah.

Shel Holtz (47:33)
But it has led organizations to want to be more quiet about it. On the other hand, who are organizations recruiting from right now? The answer is Gen Z. What is the number one most articulated value of Gen Z, diversity and inclusivity? So it seems to me that at least for your employer brand, you want to be out there touting these things because that’s what matters to the generation.

that is graduating from college and coming into the workforce in droves right now. So it seems to me that if we’re going to try to avoid being the subject of kid rock blowing up our products with high powered weapons by a lakeside on X, and on the other hand, we want to appeal to the best and the brightest coming out of universities, you’re gonna have to talk out of both sides of your mouth and it’s.

@nevillehobson (48:15)
Thank

Shel Holtz (48:27)
going to be interesting seeing how we manage to do that. My recommendation is if these are your values, stand up for them. Screw the anti -woke mob.

@nevillehobson (48:40)
Well, interestingly, again, in the USA Today piece, they have this interesting little paragraph here. They say last week, and this is July, so it’ll be in July, the Society of Human Resource Management said it was dropping the word equity and would use the acronym IND. Their CEO, Johnny Taylor, told USA Today in May that his organization planned to lead with inclusion going forward. So inclusion, not diversity.

that could be significant that shift in perception and behavior. So factor that into what’s going on.

Shel Holtz (49:12)
Well, they each mean different things. the idea that D, E, and I are all synonyms is ridiculous. Otherwise, it would just be D.

@nevillehobson (49:15)
Right. They do.

That’s part of the argument, isn’t it? mean, this isn’t helpful though, it seems to me, to the overall picture of it all. So it’s under a threat. So yeah, there we have it.

Shel Holtz (49:27)
No.

@nevillehobson (49:42)
So can say, well, before we continue, I need to go to the loo. So let me just put you on pause on the audio and I’ll be back.

Shel Holtz (49:46)
Go for

@nevillehobson (51:19)
Okeydokey.

Shel Holtz (51:22)
So you’re gonna pick up on Dan’s report, right?

@nevillehobson (51:24)
yeah, yep.

Thanks, Dan. Great report. In particular, what you talked about on threads and the Fediverse. I’ve been experimenting a bit in the past week, actually, on seeing what happens to threads posts when they get spread out across the Fediverse via Macedon in particular. I’ve still got some work to do on that. It’s still very much technically focused. And so most people aren’t going to want to get involved in that.

The big deal, think, is that the lack of being able to reply to anyone who comments on your threads post they see out there in mastodon somewhere. You see the fact that someone on the Fediverse has commented. That’s all it can tell you. And finding the comment and your original post is really a challenge, as I’ve discovered. So that needs to get better, and I’m sure it will. So I think when I see people criticizing all of this, just be patient because Meta are working at this.

And as you pointed out, Dan, they’ve been adding a lot of functionality recently. So this is not a standstill project. There’s nowhere near finished yet. And more good things are coming. A big one to me is Fedover sharing of WordPress posts via threads that takes that will be doable from the 28th of August, so it’s in a few days time. So that means you publish a post on your WordPress blog and set up the function that does this.

It’ll post it to threads. can do that now, in fact, but then it will then send it on its further journey out to the third of us from threads, which currently doesn’t happen. Now, that could be a big deal that gets your content out there automatically. You don’t have to do an awful lot. The only worry I’ve got about some of this stuff, such as being able to simultaneously post messages to, you know, multiple channels such as buffer introduced on threads, blue sky and Macedon simultaneously.

Do you really want to do that? I often think about, I’ve got Fedover sharing enabled on my threads account. It’s only available in a handful of countries, if I recall correctly, UK being one, the US has always been available. And it’s a useful feature, but sometimes I wonder, is that what I want to be doing? Here’s my post on threads and there’s that same post that’s then out there on Macedon somewhere. I have a plugin for Macedon on my WordPress blogs, I end up with two, I got to switch one off, but things like that.

You need to have a better choice on how to deal with that. It needs to be more easy for users to use. But it’s all coming and it’s really good hearing what you had to say about ThreadStand, so thanks.

Shel Holtz (54:07)
Here’s a fun fact. Disabling social media comments can negatively impact the reputations of online influencers and public figures. First off, let’s acknowledge that public figures, Oprah Winfrey, Selena Gomez, they’ve restricted access to their social media comments in response to online criticism. This decision makes sense. Those in the public eye are often highly scrutinized and disabling comments can be a first line of defense.

just to protect their mental health. But the influencers you’re working with, whether they’re internal, like an executive thought leader, for instance, or external, you should think twice before agreeing to let them shut off comments because they don’t like hearing what people think. We know about the unintended consequences of disabling comments from research. It was shared in a recent Harvard Business Review article.

Across seven studies, it was found that online influencers ranging from digital content creators to celebrities turned influencers are perceived as less sincere, less likable and less persuasive when they disable their social media comments. Participants in these studies who saw the posts with disabled…

time codes too.

Participants in these studies who saw posts with disabled comments rated the influencer on average as less sincere, likable, and persuasive compared to those who saw the same posts with enabled comments. What’s more, it was found that participants were less willing to engage with influencers’ affiliate marketing when comments had been turned off. That means they’re not going to click to buy whatever it was that that influencer was pitching. So how should influencers manage their comment sections?

The article identifies three important considerations. First, understand the importance of being open to audience feedback. Consumers tend to feel like they have personal relationships with influencers, and some even come to regard them as friends. Establishing a perceived sense of intimacy with their followers allows influencers to gain their audience’s trust and increases their persuasiveness, but these benefits come with greater expectations from their viewership. Second,

disabling comments is worse than leaving comments publicly visible, even if they’re horribly negative. While you may be trying justifiably to shut down the onslaught of negative feedback, especially after a personal transgression or a public humiliation, doing that just produces the opposite effect. Finally, if your influencers find themselves needing a break from the feedback they’re post produce, advise them to be transparent about that.

It’s worth noting that online influencers disable social media comments not only to avoid negative feedback following a specific incident, but also just to protect their wellbeing. Fortunately, the article shows that consumers can be empathetic to those needs. In fact, two of the experiments show that the backlash against disabling comments is weakened or even eliminated when influencers are grieving a personal loss, say the death of a family pet.

or transparently acknowledging the need to take a mental health break. Influencers have become targets of online negativity and how they respond to this feedback that can have important ramifications for their personal brands and the effectiveness of their endorsement of your brand, your product, your service. We need to be strategic in how we handle their wish to avoid hearing what their followers think.

@nevillehobson (57:59)
Yeah, it’s interesting. I read this article, I scanned it, let’s say when I saw it come out, I assumed it was talking about things like blog posts, where you turn commenting off and it’s not. Now I’m reading it again, listen to what you’re saying. This is about posts on social networks, not about stuff like blogs or websites. That would be a different thing if it were. And I agree with much of what I heard you outline here about disabling comments as well. And I think

just my own experience on things that I’ve done recently, I’ve commented on or wanted to comment on what someone has been saying and it’s not possible to do it. So you’re frustrated, where are you gonna go to give you a point of view? You don’t and that might therefore would impact what I thought about that person or why they turned it off. Probably because of the trolls and the hate is what I would think possibly. So it’s…

This does make it quite clear and has some credible data to back it up, I think, where it talks about the importance of being open to audience feedback. And I think that is the kind of number one. Indeed, it is the first one of the list that you read out and understand the psychology of it. I can see this. Consumers often feel they have a personal relationship with influencers and some even come to regard them as friends. And I can see that in some of the people that I follow who have large followings on places like Instagram.

So turning it off, yeah, I can see this. So it’s good to see this kind of thing. I think if you need a break, be transparent, that again makes sense. But in the context of the big thing, I’m going back to the conversation we had earlier in this episode talking about, you know, being visible and standing up for your own beliefs, et cetera, and the risks of that. And I think you’ve got to take that into account as well about

being transparent wholly about why you’re taking a break, for instance. I I remember as you will show back in those early days of social media, when you know, I used to do it, the tool called foursquare in particular is check in everywhere you went. And anyone, yeah, anyone who had either good or ill will against you would know your movements, everything.

Shel Holtz (1:00:08)
Be the mayor.

@nevillehobson (1:00:17)
And it became not fast realization, but shortly over time that this wasn’t a good idea to be so open and transparent because there are people out there who will bear you ill will. And that was, you know, milestone marker to the innocence and openness of social media in those early days. And now here we are 20 years later, 25 years later, even, that you wouldn’t think

of doing such a thing, you would be very guarded about what you share publicly, most sensible people would. Even privately, you don’t know what someone’s going to do with that information. And so nowadays, for instance, you’ve now got screenshots and all that kind of stuff people can do. And these are tools everyone has access to. And it’s very easy. Back then, it wasn’t. You needed special tools and not everyone had them. So be transparent. I think, you know, I saw something on

X the other day, by the way, I do pay attention to what goes on at X, but it’s about once a week I go in there to look at something specific or more frequently if it’s something I’m researching. I noticed something the other day from someone who’s an artist posted on X that a pet had died, a favorite pet, member of the family, very emotive post. The comments would make you sick. They truly, truly would. Evil people with disgusting comments.

That’s the risk factor on a platform like that. Don’t see it on Facebook, although it does exist, but not to that extent, not like that. So you’ve got to be careful. I wonder, indeed, I guess my point is to say, I’m wondering if this is strictly true in the totality of what the Harvard Business Review’s report is saying, given that, that we talked about, about standing out, et cetera.

The risks are quite high, quite significant in doing that as a matter of course. Maybe that needs to be mentioned in here as well.

Shel Holtz (1:02:14)
Yeah, and of course the study did point out that having the negative comments is actually not as bad as shutting everything down in terms of the perception that it creates among your followers. But I just found a post, I was remembering you were talking about shutting off the comments on blogs, which is fairly routine these days. I know Seth Godin is among the folks who has a blog that you can’t comment on, but I remember

Back in 2007, Dave Weiner shut off the comments on his blog. He said, this is a place for me to share my thoughts. In fact, he said, see if I can find it here. He says, yeah, basically he said, you can say what you think without being shouted down. This makes it possible for unpopular ideas to be.

@nevillehobson (1:02:55)
But did he say like, I don’t care what you think, this is my place?

Shel Holtz (1:03:05)
expressed and if you know history the most important ideas are often the unpopular ones. That’s what’s important about blogs not that people can comment on your ideas and as long as they can start their own blog there will be no shortage of places to comment. That’s what he said if you want to comment do it on your blog. The problem is that there’s no connectivity there. Am I going to follow a link and go read the post that he’s talking about or do I want to see what people think about the post that was there?

And the quote I just read you was on a post that was written July 30th, 2007 by Rand Fishkin under the headline, You’re Wrong, Joel Spolsky and Dave Weiner. Blog comments have incredible value. So this is hardly a new argument. It just seems to have shifted from blogs where publishing without comment has become fairly routine to social networking spaces where engagement with comments seems to be the whole point.

@nevillehobson (1:04:00)
Yeah, it’s true. And I think when I was recently, I kind of rejigged my own blog, a new design, all this stuff. And when I was preparing for all of that, I was looking through some of the earlier posts in the pre 2010 era. And almost every single one is absolutely peppered with comments, including the track backs and the ping backs. That’s a hallmark of blogs, particularly WordPress. And that functionality, by the way, still exists.

And that’s where discussions took place, but they were all connected. And that was where you had polite discourse. Rarely was it, certainly nothing like you have today. So we had a shift and as you said, it’s now moved to this and now the debate is talking about this. I actually hadn’t thought about it until we’re this discussion that you could turn off comments on places like Instagram, Facebook. I’ve never done that. I didn’t know you could. I’d never thought about it even. So.

Yeah, that’s changed the landscape quite a bit. think the ability to do that, the fact people are doing it, is a big shift.

Shel Holtz (1:05:06)
Yeah, so just something to keep in mind in your communication planning. If you’re working particularly with executives who would rather not hear it for a couple of weeks while they’re busy with something else, for example, just have this in your back pocket is data to share. You you can turn it off, but it’s going to have an impact on how people perceive you.

@nevillehobson (1:05:25)
Yeah, good point.

OK, in the upcoming US presidential election, Democrat Kamala Harris’s campaign. Had you heard about that, Shel? OK.

Shel Holtz (1:05:33)
I’m sorry, there’s an election?

No, I’m one of those people who doesn’t pay attention until after Labor Day.

@nevillehobson (1:05:41)
Yeah, we had one in the UK, by the way. Did you know that? We had one in the UK recently.

Shel Holtz (1:05:44)
I think I saw that on a news crawl. That’s right. John Oliver probably mentioned it.

@nevillehobson (1:05:48)
On the comedy show. Well, in the US. Yeah, yeah, he would have done. So in the US, Kamala Harris’s campaign is not just targeting Gen Z voters, many of whom will be voting for the first time is redefining how political engagement happens online. I found this a really interesting aspect to political campaigning and communication. What Kamala Harris’s campaign is doing both

she herself and her role, but her communication team and what they have enabled. This is really quite interesting. And the Gen Z targeting is significant. The Gen Z is often called the first digitally native generation. We’ve said that quite a few times. It represents a critical voting bloc of young people born between 1997 and 2012, who grew up with smartphones and social media, making them a key demographic for shaping the election outcome.

Unlike her Republican opponent Donald Trump, who traditionally tapped into the internet’s darker fringes, Harris’s team has mastered the native formats of platforms like TikTok, Gen Z’s most favored digital space, with a team of young influencers and strategists, nearly all of them under 25. The Harris campaign is leveraging memes, trends and viral content to connect authentically with younger audiences. This strategy was evident at the Democratic National Convention last week.

where over 200 influencers offered an intimate behind the scenes look, further amplifying Harris’s message. Harris’s digital presence isn’t just about following trends though, it’s about creating them. For example, the Brat meme, inspired by British singer Charlie XCX’s album, embodies confidence and a bold carefree attitude with its lime green cover art and aesthetic, traits that resonate strongly with Gen Z. The Coconut Dream meme, based on a viral quote from Harris,

has also been humorously embraced by her supporters. By strategically co -opting these memes, the campaign has significantly enhanced Harris’s appeal to younger internet savvy voters, driving massive engagement that far surpasses Trump’s efforts. Furthermore, the strategic use of influencers at the DNC exemplifies Harris’s innovative approach. These influencers, credentialed alongside traditional media, provided a personalized, immersive experience for their followers.

bridging the gap between politics and everyday life in a way that resonates with the digital first generation. The campaign’s metrics are a testament to its success. Over 57 million viewers across TV and online platforms for the first night of the convention, with 30 million views on content created by influencers alone. This level of engagement suggests that Harris’s digital first strategy could significantly mobilize younger voters, potentially tipping the scales in the upcoming election.

As we move closer to the election on November the 5th, it’s clear that the battle for the White House is being fought not only on the ground, but also across social media feeds where Harris currently holds a significant edge. This campaign is not just about winning an election. It’s about reshaping how digital strategies can be used to engage and mobilize voters in the digital age, setting a new standard for future campaigns globally. While the Harris campaign’s digital strategy is clearly leading the way,

It’s important to remember that this election is far from decided. With over 70 days still to go, the race remains incredibly tight and many influential Democrats are cautioning against overconfidence. A lot can change in the final stretch, making every move in this digital battleground crucial.

Shel Holtz (1:09:26)
Yeah, this campaign is not going to be one with memes. In fact, I even saw a headline, I think it was in the New York Times, it was yesterday or today that said joy is not a strategy because people have been talking about how this has been a joyful campaign. But the fact is it’s a campaign where every vote is going to count, every vote is going to be needed.

and getting young people out to vote. And this is a block that traditionally doesn’t vote. And they certainly were not enthused about Joe Biden, rightly or wrongly. So the fact that they are motivated to engage with some pretty interesting content that is being created by some pretty savvy digital media people is perhaps what’s going to get them out to vote and maybe even out to volunteer. Knock on doors.

make phone calls, write postcards, all those things that volunteers do as part of the ground game. And you got to hand it to them for actually understanding what resonates with Gen Z. I did hear and I don’t remember where I heard it. was on a podcast or on a news program.

But the Harris campaign’s media expenditure is 75 % digital. Only 25 % is TV. That is a complete reversal from what every campaign has been before this. So they get how important this is. And it doesn’t hurt that both candidates, Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, come off pretty well.

in these types of videos. Tim Walz has been on TikTok for a while as predates any even consideration that he might be on a national ticket. So he’s been out there at county fairs holding pigs. And, you you’ve probably seen the one with his daughter where he says, we’re going to celebrate with a hamburger. And she says, I’m vegetarian. He says, Turkey then. And she says, that’s meat. And he says, not in Minnesota.

@nevillehobson (1:11:38)
Very good.

Shel Holtz (1:11:41)
You know, and there was one from some retail shop. I think it was a pizza place. And it was the pizza place that shot the video, but it was him having this really, really natural conversation with the people in the shop. And I just saw that last night contrasted with JD Vance, the Republican vice presidential nominee, going into a donut shop and having a really kind of strained and unpleasant interaction with the staff there.

So the fact that they know how to do this, they know how to come off well in these videos. There was another one that I heard went viral. was just Kamala Harrison and Tim Walz having a conversation about when she called him to inform him that he had been her choice for vice president, but he didn’t recognize the phone number. So he let her go to voicemail.

The conversation was very natural and authentic. And by the way, what’s number four on the list of things that matter to Gen Z that they value authenticity and individualism. So they’re right on top of this. And I think this is going to bring a lot of people to the polls who might’ve otherwise sat it out.

@nevillehobson (1:12:49)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think you’re right. Absolutely. I think that’s worth a point emphasizing that they truly get this they do much better than their opponents. From the people in her campaign team, they’re all youthful, they’re all active themselves on all the platforms that they’re using. They have a clear idea of what they want to achieve. And they have a strategy that they can execute on.

One of the links you’ll find in the show notes is a report on CNN that has profiles, if you like, of people in the campaign is most interesting to read that where you’ve got you’ve got comments like one staffer talking about their role is to build the windmill and the the current Vice President Kamala Harris, her role is to blow the wind.

I think, yeah, that’s a good kind of metaphor, I suppose. But it actually is true, they are building the infrastructure to communicate and the means by which you can get a message is out, and she’ll have help doing it. But the bottom line is she is the prime messenger. And she is very believable. The Guardian had a terrific analysis of interviews with some of the influences at the DNC. And I want to mention, I want to quote a couple of them here, because they had some interesting things to say.

One called Alexis Williams, a TikToker with 262 ,000 followers on that network. She posts about fashion, STEM and social justice. She emphasized the challenge of bridging the gap between Gen Z and older politicians at the convention, noting that while young influencers understand the appeal of using trendy musical jokes, older politicians often don’t get it. She also highlighted their unique access, which often surpasses traditional journalists. So they were getting

into places that some of the traditional journalists couldn’t get into. Corey Aversa is a 51 year old publicist and content creator from Philadelphia with 130 ,000 followers on TikTok described his content style as making viewers feel like they’re right there with him, capturing the excitement of being up close to VIPs at the convention that connected with the Gen Z followers in his network. Heather Gardner, a 36 year old TikToker.

with 394 ,000 followers on that network, pointed out the distinctiveness of influencer content, which offers a more personalized and varied perspective compared to the predictable coverage of mainstream news outlets. She stressed though that good vibes alone aren’t enough. The content must also be insightful and educational, and I would add, delivers perhaps an unspoken call to action to get out there and vote. So.

You look at these elements of what’s going on and you can see they truly have something that the other side don’t seem to. That said, you know, this is the picture now, 70 days out. And I would be very surprised indeed if the Trump campaign is kind of sat on their hands until November the 5th. So they’re going to come out with something, who knows? Hopefully for the Democrats, it’s just Trump ranting. If they get smart and do strategy, that could be a problem.

But this is really interesting seeing how they have done this at some significant scale of mobilizing almost an army of supporters to tell Kamala Harris’s story as well as she telling it, but telling it in their words to their communities and engaging directly with them with the confidence that they, they got permission, B, they got connections and the support to do it. And they believe they can do this and they are.

This is really quite phenomenal seeing this unveiled before our very eyes.

Shel Holtz (1:16:40)
And lest anybody think we’re just sitting here gushing about a Democratic candidate, I would first remind everybody that Neville’s in the UK and doesn’t have skin in this game. But second, this is a communication podcast. And what the Harris campaign is doing is a clinic for any marketer looking to try to appeal to Gen Z. You got to look at the authenticity of the kind of posts that they are contributing. You’ve got to look at the people that they are.

bringing into their camp to post on their behalf. You’ve got to look at how fast they are moving to jump on memes that have emerged out of popular culture, like the brat thing with Charlie XCX, like the coconut tree meme. They’re capitalizing on things. And by the way, some of these are things that their opposition tried to turn into a negative, but they had already jumped on it and turned it into a positive. So

There are lessons to be learned here and applied outside of the political arena. And I don’t care if you’re the most rabid Trump supporter, if you’re a marketer and you’re not paying attention to the way the Harris campaign is appealing to Gen Z, then you’re gonna be less effective on your job.

@nevillehobson (1:17:39)
Yeah.

Shel Holtz (1:17:56)
Well, what’s one thing we haven’t talked about yet in this episode? Let me think here. AI. The rise of generative AI is accelerating everything it touches in the tech industry by orders of magnitude. AI -powered search engines like Perplexity are gaining mainstream momentum. And what’s feeling the pressure as a result of all of this? The age -old industry of search engine optimization.

@nevillehobson (1:18:02)
you

Shel Holtz (1:18:26)
Now, before we dive into the trends that will drive SEO for the next year or so, let’s take a quick look at how search has changed in the last three decades. There is a search expert, he goes by Demib, that is Mikkel Demib Svensson, who recalls the switch to mobile, which was first prophesied around Y2K, shortly after the introduction of

the wireless application protocol that allowed mobile devices to connect to the internet. It was another decade before Google adopted a mobile first philosophy and content publishers adopted mobile friendly user experiences. Now, DMIB sees upwards of 90 % mobile traffic in certain verticals like women’s fashion. So what trends should marketers and communicators be keeping an eye on in 2024 and 2025? Here are five things to watch.

D -MIB calls AI a fundamental shift in technology that is maybe as big, maybe even bigger than the internet. He points to AI powering chatbots, search engines, Google AI overviews, and more. In a HubSpot survey of over 100 US -based SEO professionals, 73 % either strongly or somewhat agreed that AI tools, features, or solutions are becoming an important part of the company’s SEO strategy.

So what are the trends communicators should be paying attention to when it comes to driving traffic to their websites or getting eyes on content? Well, first there’s zero click search. With the launch of Google’s AI overviews in May of this year, zero click search shifted from theoretical concern to waking nightmare for some people. However, DMib, he’s that search engine expert, believes that a zero click world is not likely to happen as people still want to buy products that are actually only available

on certain web shops, and they want perspectives from various news outlets. Still, we’ve been living in the world of one true answer ever since Amazon unveiled the Echo line of products. We talked about this whole one true answer concept a couple of times on the show when the Echo was new. So I’d still be trying to get my company name in those AI generated results. I can’t remember where I read this. I think it was a LinkedIn post, but the author said,

He was astounded when he asked a number of prospective customers who contacted him how they learned about his company. And they said it was in an AI chat bot’s response. Remember, AI scoops up web content. So the more you’re out there on the web in the right context, the more likely you are to show up in the response to a Gen. AI prompt. And that leads us to the next trend, which is ranch style SEO. Clear Scope CEO Bernard Wang

made ripples in the SEO world with a blog post he called, Why Ranch Style SEO is Your Future -Proof Content Strategy? Huang says that rather than focusing on long, in -depth articles, publishers should disaggregate content into precise, digestible pieces that strategically align with the user’s search journey. This goes hand in hand with advice that we’ve seen about follow -up search intent, which is the next point. Amanda Sellers, HubSpot’s manager,

of EN blog strategy emphasizes that the importance of considering follow -up searches is growing. Even with the increase in zero -click queries, some users won’t be satisfied with the initial answer and will refine their journey with follow -up searches. Anticipating follow -up search intent is key to content strategy in 2024 and 2025. And I would add that the experts out there on

using ChatGPT and Gemini and Claude and the other frontier large language models are all telling us, don’t type in a question and then use the answer. Have a conversation, use follow -up questions. You get additional information. It could include what your organization strove to get into those search results. Next trend is video SEO. Expect more growth in that area as consumers increasingly turn to YouTube.

to research their pain points and seek human perspectives. Rory Hope is HubSpot’s head of EN growth and says that SEOs should be monitoring the search results pages for target keywords and topics to see which ones have video carousels and coordinate with media teams to create relevant video content. The through line in these trends is that AI is driving a lot of change in the search landscape, but SEO is alive and well, and the human element is still vital to search.

To accommodate these new trends, our experts recommend that… Yeah, it’s not our experts.

To accommodate these new trends, experts are recommending that marketers and SEOs write for their audience, embrace AI -based tools, monitor search engine results pages for target keywords and topics with video carousels, and deepen their topical coverage and sharpen their editorial angles.

@nevillehobson (1:23:49)
all eminently sensible suggestion shell. I was struck by one thing reading the HubSpot article right at the very beginning where they introduced the idea of how the search landscape has changed and talk about when Google search appeared in 1998, which it did. I remember when it came out, I switched immediately from, I think, AltaVista I was using could have been one of those others, but this was magical to today. But the interesting thing was a one line comment in that intro.

An entire generation has grown up never knowing a time before Google. That’s our Gen Z. So it’s fascinating. The evolution is very interesting, I think. The trends, the zero click search thing, I’d never really kind of thought deeply about that, but I can see why that is important to pay attention to what’s happening in that area. I think the…

Shel Holtz (1:24:25)
This is true.

@nevillehobson (1:24:47)
Other point to me that’s that stood out. What would decrease search traffic in the next six months? This is in line with what we’ve been talking about in recent episodes of the in between episodes, a short form ones we do in the week. Decrease search traffic in the next six months, generative AI chatbots 13%. That would decrease search traffic. That’s interesting. And that I think is in alignment with what we’ve been talking about with with

with what was it called, Shell, the tool that Google launched that you mentioned, Google interviews or something, or wasn’t that? Anyway, you know the one I mean. So I think also one other thing that did strike me too, what will improve search traffic? yeah, that was the thing, it was overviews, yeah. Social media search engines. And we’ve seen what’s already out there, and notably perplexity, where you can ask it,

the kind of questions that we’re now seeing the others coming up with. It’s not actually it’s not strictly social media, but it’s becoming more significant. And your point you mentioned about having a conversation with your search tool. I do that. I’m sure you do as well. think I know you do even. I just don’t use Google at all. Even what’s the phone number of the dentist that I’ve forgotten. I don’t I don’t do that. Although I must admit, you then get more information than you need in the answer from perplexity if you do that.

but it’s fast, I do voice a lot. I ask them audio audibly the questions. And by the way, Perplexi’s mobile app is really good. So these are all factors into all of this. And I think the numbers are definitely worth paying attention to. I’ve not read the whole report, but I will take a look through it.

Shel Holtz (1:26:37)
Yeah, and I think, first of all, I do use Google still. There are times where I say I’m looking for a good brunch near me and it’ll pull up Google Maps and have the markers on it and show 10 restaurants and I can. But yeah. I’ve been trying to hold that back.

@nevillehobson (1:26:58)
A bit of editing there.

Shel Holtz (1:27:05)
So let me start that again.

So I do still use Google. I’ll ask for, you know, good brunch near me and it’ll give me the Google map with the markers on it and give me 10 listings and I can move through them pretty seamlessly. I don’t find the perplexity does anything even remotely like that. Also, I am on the waiting list for OpenAI’s new AI, generative AI search tool that is in alpha. And I guess some people are in there using it, but I haven’t gotten an invitation yet. I can’t wait to…

Give that a try.

@nevillehobson (1:27:41)
I’m on the waiting list too, it’s not yet launched in the UK, so I don’t know when it will be, but they told me I’m on the waiting list.

Shel Holtz (1:27:48)
Right. It’d be interesting to see what approach they take, how that compares to perplexity. Perplexity has just announced, by the way, that there’s going to be advertising. They’ve struck some deals and we’re going to start to see that really soon. But I do think unlike what this expert in SEO said in the HubSpot article, that zero click is an issue. Yes, if I do a search that takes me in perplexity,

@nevillehobson (1:27:51)
Yeah.

Yeah, two -four.

Shel Holtz (1:28:16)
to or in Google where I get the overview that provides me with a great answer that now I want to buy the product. Yes, I’m going to have to click through to that site. Absolutely. No, duh, as they say. But if what I’m looking for is instructions on how to factory reset my Google Pixel phone and what comes up is here’s step one through five and that will do it for you.

I’m not clicking through to anything. That’s what I was looking for right there. And I think increasingly that zero click response that you’re going to get is going to satisfy most people. So that becomes an issue. I think getting your information, getting your content, even your links into these results is going to be an increasing area of focus. And there’s going to be more and more tricks to do that.

@nevillehobson (1:28:55)
Yeah, it will.

Shel Holtz (1:29:13)
and maybe even advice coming from the AI organizations on how to do that, the same way Google has always offered advice on how to get into their search results, which have always been fairly ethical. They weren’t telling you here are workarounds to get irrelevant content into somebody’s search. was being current. Keep updating your content. Make sure that the keywords are in there and not gratuitously that they are contextual.

And every time they do an update to Google, they’re going to tell you, here’s what’s changed and here’s what you need to do to accommodate this. So I’d love to see the AI tools start offering that kind of guidance.

@nevillehobson (1:29:55)
Yeah, I agree. I think it’s inevitable though, the evolution path. You said it, you search for something on one of these tools, whether it’s perplexity or chat, or whatever it might be. And if it gives you, what are the five steps to do X, or you don’t say what are the five steps, how do I do X? gives you step one, do this, step five, boom. You’re not gonna go anywhere else from that point.

And that is inevitable. There’s no point in saying, well, that shouldn’t be. That is how it is. It will improve. So on the one hand, you’ve got the the traditional search engine, if I can use that way of describing it, that need to up the game in that sense. Sounds an unfair point, but without the detail, but that’s what they need to do. But is it just that? What about the companies? I don’t know how it works, Shell, to be honest, but I remember the experience I had when I first wrote

a review of perplexity back either late middle of last year or early this, I can’t remember offhand. And I had screenshots comparing this search term I did on Google, this search term is perplexity. The Google one was pretty, pretty bad. And I know it has improved a bit since from my own experience even, but the search term gave me was a car, I think it was to do with electric vehicles or hybrids or something like that. So it gave me in Google links to

some car manufacturers websites and indeed some local dealers to where I am. And I clicked on a few of them, just took me to a sales page or this is the new model. And I think this does not anywhere come close to addressing my search term. Perplexion on the other hand, gave me an essay, almost a novel on the answer to my question with all the links to the various sources that I went to. thought, wow, this is the future. that’s, but I’ve yet.

Your point about restaurants and things, I’m a bit peculiar because I never do that. I never say what’s a good place to eat near me. I just never ask a search engine that question. Sometimes I’ll look for something on Google Maps that’s related to that. I don’t just generally go to Google. I mean, Google Maps. It’s usually when I’m in the car, I ask that kind of question. And I get great results with Google, actually. And in fact, Google is Google Assistant, but the

AI one Gemini is coming to Android Auto. And I have kind of mixed views about that from what I’ve been reading in some of the tech press. Nevertheless, this is the evolution that’s coming. And so it’s changed the landscape without any doubt. And I don’t know what the answer is going to be to those folks who are looking at their web traffic and finally it’s plummeting because no one’s coming to the website. Don’t know what the answer is.

Shel Holtz (1:32:35)
The answer is to find other ways to attract that traffic to your website. Stop relying on Google because that’s going to be less and less effective. And that’ll do it for this episode of for immediate release. Of course, we will be here with short midweek episodes between now and Monday, September 23rd, which is the date of our next long form monthly episode.

@nevillehobson (1:32:38)
Up you go.

Yeah.

Yeah, you got it.

Shel Holtz (1:33:02)
We do hope that you will comment on the episodes that we post, including this one. You can email us your comment. Just email it to fircomments at gmail .com. You can attach an audio file to about three minutes long. You can record that audio file right on the FIR website, firpodcastnetwork .com. You’ll see a little button that says record voicemail or send voicemail. I don’t even remember what it says, but you’ll see it. It says voicemail.

Click that and you can record up to 90 seconds if you want to record more than that record more than that and we’ll Marry those files together and play your comment but you can also do what most people are doing which is Comment when we post an announcement that an episode has been shared we do that on LinkedIn Facebook threads blue sky mastodon Not Twitter anymore not X. We’re not there anymore. Sorry about that

We also have a Facebook group for the FIR Podcast Network. Please join that group. You can share your comments to the posts that we shared there. And you can leave a comment in the show notes on the FIR Podcast Network website. And as always, we are grateful for your ratings and reviews wherever you get your podcasts. It’s a great way to let other people know about FIR. And that will be a 30 for this episode of For Immediate Release.

The post FIR #425: Stand Up, Stand Out, or Shut Down? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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As we reported nearly a year ago, communication’s influence is growing among organizational leadership. However, in many companies, executive acceptance of communication may be taking a worrisome turn as additional responsibilities are being tacked onto the communication role, including sustainability and DEI. Is this because some companies see a natural synergy between these roles? Is it because the roles are viewed as soft, less important, and easily lumped together? Whatever the reason, it’s worth wondering whether coupling these roles dilutes the communication executive’s ability to do either well. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel explore the trend of coupling communication with another C-suite job.

Links from this episode:

• Chief communications officers are absorbing more corporate functions, new report
• New report: Communication’s growing influence in the C-suite
• FIR #361: Is There a Seat at the Table in Corporate Communication’s Future?

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, August 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #424: The Rise of the Hybrid Communication Officer appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the pros and cons of using LinkedIn for agency growth and professional engagement. They touch upon the challenges of spam and overautomation, and emphasize the importance of personalized, thoughtful interactions.

They also share strategies for repurposing content, such as tailoring blog posts to different audiences when posting on LinkedIn. They address the increased use of LinkedIn direct messages for networking and provide insights on effective commenting. Additionally, they briefly discuss the appropriateness of political posts on LinkedIn and recommend focusing on values rather than partisan views. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 242: Using LinkedIn effectively to grow your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Op-eds pay off. According to one analysis, New York Times opinion articles get 37 percent more readers than the newspaper’s general news coverage. Wall Street Journal op-eds attract 571 percent more readers than its general news. (That’s not a typo. Five hundred seventy-one percent.) However, more and more news outlets are shuttering their opinion sections or severely reducing the space available for op-eds. Celebrity CEOs may well be able to pitch op-eds, but this channel is no longer an option for the leaders of most organizations. Many leaders are turning to LinkedIn to share their insights. Is that the only option? In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel examine the state of thought leadership and the channels communicators may not be considering.

Links from this episode:

• Thought leaders flock to social media as opinion sections shutter

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, August 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #423: As Op-Eds Fade into History, Where Does Thought Leadership Belong? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Neville and Shel both spent time at a global Human Resources consulting firm in addition to their long tenures as independent consultants. At the core of all consulting is the labor-intensive work that takes time, and time is money. Every consultant has an hourly billable rate, and even when quoting project fees, those fees are based on the hours required to complete the project. This model has been under strain for decades, leading to concepts like “value-add,” in which hourly fees are supplemented by the additional value the consultant supposedly brings to the project (which is, after all, supposed to be reflected in their hourly rate). Now, AI may be the nail in the coffin for the billable hour model, in addition to fundamental consultant structures and offerings. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel examine the state of consulting in the AI age.

Links from this episode:

• The Business Consulting Industry Is Being Disrupted, and Nothing Can Stop It
• How AI is Changing the Consulting Game – NevilleHobson .com
• Re-evaluating consultancy pricing in the age of AI

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, August 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #422: Will AI Kill the Consulting Billable Hours Model? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the pivotal role of trust within agency teams. They explore common scenarios where agency owners struggle with trusting their employees, often due to micromanagement tendencies, ill-defined roles, or unrealistic expectations.

They emphasize the importance of clear communication, proper onboarding, and creating an environment where employees feel trusted and empowered. They also address the importance of identifying whether the lack of trust stems from the owner’s behavior or if the employee is possibly not the right fit for the role. Practical steps such as implementing standard operating procedures and incremental training are suggested to foster a trust-based work environment. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 241: Do you trust your agency team members? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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AI can greatly enhance media production and social media engagement, but it should be used to complement, not replace, human creativity and connection. And, as AI becomes more integrated into media and social platforms, it’s crucial to establish ethical guidelines and robust systems to prevent the spread of misinformation.

In this FIR interview with Pete Pachal, founder and CEO of The Media Copilot, Neville and Shel explore the intersection of artificial intelligence and media, with a focus on how generative AI influences social media, journalism, and brand engagement. We also consider how brands must adapt to new social media landscapes where AI-driven conversations may replace traditional metrics of engagement, requiring a shift in how they interact with their audiences.

Pete argues that the rapid advancement of AI tools means that businesses, media companies, and communicators need to stay ahead of the curve to leverage these technologies effectively while being mindful of the potential risks.

About our Conversation PartnerPete Pachal is the Founder and Editor-in-Chief of The Media Copilot, where he writes about how generative AI is changing journalism, the media and creative fields. He also teaches journalists and content creators how to use AI tools and consults with companies of all sizes on how to incorporate generative AI into real work.

Pete has a long career in journalism and media, previously holding senior roles in global newsrooms such as CoinDesk and Mashable. He also puts his encyclopedic knowledge of Doctor Who to work every week in the podcast ‘Pull To Open’.

Follow Pete on LinkedIn.

Links from This Interview:

• The Media Copilot
• The Media CoPilot on Substack
• Pull To Open on Spotify

The post FIR Interview: Pete Pachal on AI, Social Media, Journalism and Brand Engagement appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The End of the Generative Artificial-Intelligence Bubble
The End of Investors’ Generative AI Honeymoon
Will Generative AI Really Pay Off?
Generative AI Seed Funding Drops 76% As Investors Take A Wait-and-See Approach
Is Generative AI Worth the Investment?

These are all headlines from the last several weeks suggesting, as Gartner believes, that generative AI has arrived at the trough of disillusionment (the low point in Gartner’s technology hype cycle). This skepticism can be attributed to the fact that there haven’t been any breakthrough products that have produced huge revenues. Instead of companies making big investments in AI, individual employees are using free or low-cost tools independently.

While those enterprise tools are undoubtedly coming, employees using ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, Perplexity, and Copilot are seeing big gains in productivity and even creativity. A new report from Microsoft — which looks at Copilot use by 6,000 employees in more than 60 organizations — reinforces this view. In this midweek episode, Neville and Shel dig into the report, along with a Washington Post study that ranks how individuals are using generative AI.

Links from this episode:

• Generative AI in Real-World Workplaces (Microsoft report)
• What do people really ask chatbots? It’s a lot of sex and homework

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, August 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #421: GenAI Is Paying Off for Individual Employees appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Agencies sometimes find themselves mired in micromanagement, worried about the wrong things, or presenting ill-considered solutions to clients.

Much of this can be avoided by asking “So What?” more often.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of that one question and how it can lead to more effective decision-making for agency owners. They highlight the need to challenge assumptions, manage time wisely, and empower team members to think critically.

Through practical examples, they explain how this simple question can uncover inefficiencies and drive better outcomes in client interactions and internal processes. The discussion also covers the benefits of asking team members for their input to foster growth and confidence. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 240: Unlocking agency potential by asking “So What?” appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of email marketing for agencies. They emphasize that email newsletters should be a top priority for agencies to nurture leads, share content, and maintain direct communication with clients.

The conversation highlights the risks of relying solely on social media platforms, which can change or disappear. They also advise agency owners to publish thought leadership content to differentiate themselves and align with their values, despite potential fear of alienating prospects.

Lastly, they stress the importance of owning one’s content and not just focusing on the size of the email list, but rather the quality of engagement and relevance to the audience. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 239: Does email marketing work for agencies? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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A faulty software update caused the biggest IT outage in history, affecting everything from commercial airline flights to hospitals. The crisis communication demands on CrowdStrike were enormous. How well did the company acquit itself? Neville and Shel look at the company’s response and share what some crisis experts have said. Also in this episode, there’s increased reporting on the strike between journalists and media relations professionals. People are still searching on Google, but they are not clicking on any of the results, creating headaches for websites that need visitors to survive. Ogilvy has introduced a service to deal with rogue influencers. A newsletter has made its way into the fediverse as social networks like Threads continue to expand their fediverse presence. NATO is taking its case to the public in a novel format: a graphic novel. In his tech report, Dan York shares his thoughts on the U.S. Supreme Court decision dealing with content moderation and why it’s important for communicators, the release of WordPress 6.6, and the CrowdStrike outage.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, August 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Links from this episode:

• Mark Borkowski on the journalist-PR rift (LinkedIn)
• ‘So many damn follow-ups’ – journalist Jay Rayner slates ‘unfocused’ PR outreach
• By the Numbers: What journalists really think of your pitches – PR Daily
• Beyond the battlefield: rethinking the journalist-PR dynamic in modern media
• 2024 State of the Media Report | Cision
• Key Crisis Communication Learnings from CrowdStrike Falcon Disruption
• CrowdStrike backlash over $10 apology voucher for IT chaos
• 1 big thing: CrowdStrike strikes out on comms
• Louis Corriero CrowdStrike Commentary on LinkedIn
• Microsoft blames EU rules for allowing world’s biggest IT outage to happen
• Could international standards have prevented the CrowdStrike incident?
• CrowdStrike offers a $10 apology gift card to say sorry for outage
• From CrowdStrike: To Our Customers and Partners
• Neville’s Post on CrowdStrike Crisis Lessons
• 2024 Zero-Click Search Study: For every 1,000 EU Google Searches, only 374 clicks go to the Open Web. In the US, it’s 360
• Ogilvy launches service to deal with rogue influencers
• Michelle Garrett (@prwritergal) on Rogue Influencers on Threads
• Rob Cottingham (@robcottingham) on Rogue Influencers on Threads
• The dark arts social media influencers are using to get your likes
• Meta is connecting Threads more deeply with the fediverse
• Threads adds more fediverse features but its integration faces headwinds
• Substack rival Ghost federates its first newsletter
• Mastodon debuts feature highlighting journalists on the fediverse
• Fediverse Explained by Common Craft (VIDEO)
• NATO 2099 graphic novel imagines the future of the Alliance
• NATO 2099
• NATO 2099 Press Release

Links from Dan York’s Report:

• US Supreme Court Upholds Right of Websites to Moderate Content – Internet Society
• Global Tech Outage Demonstrates Need for Resiliency in Software Systems – Internet Society
• WordPress 6.6
• Falcon Content Update Remediation and Guidance Hub | CrowdStrike

The post FIR #420: How Well Did CrowdStrike Handle Its Crisis Communications? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The headline is a bit dramatic but it was hard to pass up the “Shadow” reference. In fact, Shadow AI refers to employees covertly using generative AI tools at work without IT, HR, and other departments knowing about it. A recent report found vthat 27.4% of the content employees fed into AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, Copilot, and Gemini was sensitive, a 10.7% increase from a year ago. The most sensitive data types shared with AI tools are customer support (16.3%), source code (12.7%), research and development material (10.8%), and unreleased marketing material (6.6%). HR and employee records represent 3.9% of sensitive information uploaded to AI chatbots, including confidential HR details, employee compensation, and medical issues. Neville and Shel examine the problem and the role internal communicators can play in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• WTF is Shadow AI?
• Cyberhaven Report: Surge in ‘Shadow AI’ Accounts Poses Fresh Risks to Corporate Data
• Shadow AI: how employees are leading the charge in AI adoption and putting company data at risk

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #419: Is Shadow AI an Evil Lurking in the Heart of Your Company? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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If you’re a regular listener, you know that Chip and Gini have strong feelings about staying away from RFPs when possible. But sometimes they can’t be avoided.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss offer practical tips for handling RFPs efficiently, like templatizing repeat information, asking insightful questions, and focusing on building relationships. They also touch on strategies for incumbent agencies facing potential renewal through RFPs, emphasizing the importance of not burning bridges and maintaining a full pipeline of business opportunities.

Overall, they highlight the necessity of minimizing effort while maximizing the chances of success in the RFP process. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 238: What to do when your agency can’t avoid responding to an RFP appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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For years, Tractor Supply has touted its values and how firmly it has committed to them, as demonstrated by the fact that the Tennessee-based retailer recently set new targets, having already met the ones it established in 2018. But a vitriolic campaign by a right-wing podcaster led the company to summarily abandon those values, leading some employees to quit and diverse members of the company’s customer base to speak up. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel discuss how firmly a company should stand up for what it believes, especially as political divides threaten organizations’ ability to do what’s best for the business.

Links from this episode:

• Tractor Supply retailer drops diversity efforts, and employees quit
• Black farmers’ group calls for Tractor Supply CEO’s resignation after DEI cuts
• Lessons From Tractor Supply’s Sudden Reversal On Its Commitment To DEI
• Tractor Supply’s Customers Cheer as It Dumps ESG, Says Survey
• Tractor Supply may have thought it solved a big problem. Now it has a few more.
• DEI Might Be Dying: John Deere and Microsoft Make Big Changes

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #418: These Are Our Rock-Solid Beliefs — Unless You Don’t Like Them appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Share of voice, share of search, share of conversation—brands are forever measuring their share in whatever space they want to dominate. Now that people are seeking answers from generative AI models like ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, brands will need to know whether they show up in the responses these models deliver. There is already a proposal to call this measurement “share of model.” In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel will explain what it means and how brands can get the same out of GenAI models that they have been getting out of Google (i.e., share of search) using SEO techniques.

Links from this episode:

• ‘Share of model’ is the new marketing measure for the AI era
• Share of Model: A New Metric for Marketing Strategies
• Understanding Share of Model: a vital metric for progressive marketers
• Marketers Are Tracking a New Metric: Share of Model

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #417: As AI Adoption Grows, Is Share of Model the New Metric? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss whether PR agencies should report to the head of communications or the head of marketing. They reference a LinkedIn post by Parry Headrick, which suggests that PR agencies should ideally report to the communications lead.

Chip and Gini explore various considerations such as the size and structure of the client’s organization, the types of projects being handled, and the importance of having someone who understands PR work. They also emphasize the need for agencies to adapt and possibly integrate the PESO model to better serve modern client needs. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 237: Who Should PR Agencies Report To? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Maven is a new social network that eschews likes and follows — the features of other social networks that induce stress and anxiety in users who feel compelled to grow their numbers rather than have meaningful conversations. But if brands can’t build a follower base or measure engagement on their posts, is there a use case for establishing a presence on Maven? Neville and Shel look at the possibilities in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• Maven
• Maven Is a New Social Network That Eliminates Followers—and Hopefully Stress
• All you need to know about Maven, the social network with no likes and followers
• Reviving Social Media Interest with Maven’s AI-Powered ‘Serendipity Network’
• Anxiety-free social media? Maven thinks it has a formula for it

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #416: No Likes, No Follows, No Stress! appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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For years, agency advisors like Chip and Gini have implored agencies to be strategic and avoid being simple order takers. Owners were told that this shift was key to increasing profitability and client retention.

But has it gone too far? In this episode, Chip and Gini examine whether agencies have hit ‘peak strategy’ as suggested recently by Blair Enns.

They ask whether some agencies are overemphasizing strategy at the expense of implementation. They note that clients say they want their agencies to think strategically, but they also balk at explicit costs for strategic planning.

They maintain that agencies should incorporate strategy into their overall services without explicitly charging for it, and emphasize the need for balance between strategic planning and practical execution.

Chip and Gini also discuss proper pricing strategies, ensuring clients receive value without feeling nickel-and-dimed. The conversation highlights the necessity of delivering workable strategies tailored to client needs and the importance of understanding costs and pricing based on agency specifics. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 236: Have agencies listened too well to the “be strategic” mantra? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The UK Post Office scandal is a stark example of leadership and communication failures. When a faulty computer system was implemented, it erroneously flagged financial discrepancies, leading to the wrongful conviction of numerous subpostmasters for theft and false accounting. Instead of addressing the software’s errors, the Post Office’s crisis communication strategy focused on concealment and covering up misdeeds. This approach exacerbated the situation and severely damaged the organization’s reputation and trust. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel discuss how transparency and accountability should have been the focus of leadership and how other companies’ crises could have been instructive for the Post Office’s leaders.

Links from this episode:

• Opinion: Public relations lessons from the Post Office scandal
• British Post Office scandal (Wikipedia)

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #415: A Staggering Failure of Leadership and Communication appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip talks with David C. Baker, who has been dubbed “the expert’s expert.” He leads the advisory firm Punctuation, and has worked with more than 1,000 agencies to help them get better positioned for success.

The discussion focuses on improving agency management and scalability by emphasizing the importance of understanding business fundamentals and integrating them alongside the creative and strategic solutions.

Key topics include the benefits of proper positioning, effective client communication, strategic pricing, and the importance of sharing expertise. [read the transcript]

The post CWC 101: Expert advice on putting your agency in a position to succeed (featuring David C. Baker) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the widespread apprehension about AI in the agency world, urging listeners to embrace the technology rather than fear it.

They emphasize that AI will not replace jobs but will change the nature of work, making tasks more efficient and allowing for more strategic focus. The conversation also explores how agency owners can leverage AI to create new service models and improve client offerings. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 235: AI should be your agency’s friend, not foe appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Organizations need to adopt policies and communication strategies based on the acknowledgment that remote/hybrid work is here to stay. The current state of play is rooted in an assumption that it’s temporary, creating tensions between workers and leaders and leaving pre-pandemic company cultures in shambles. In a survey conducted jointly by the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) and the USC Annenberg School of Communication, communicators shared their views about how remote/hybrid is going four years after it was thrust on organizations and its impact on the internal communication function. These results were presented on June 26 at a session of the IABC World Conference in Chicago. A press release is set for distribution the week of July 1, with survey results available soon after.

Links from this episode:

• Check back for links after the survey has been released

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #414: Companies Treat Remote/Hybrid Like It’s Temporary. It’s Not. appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Are you finding biz dev harder in 2024 than you expected?

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the increased risk aversion and prolonged decision-making processes among clients and prospects in the agency industry, especially in light of economic uncertainties and the 2024 U.S. election. They emphasize the importance of agencies adapting by providing project-based work and suggest looking into using AI for optimizing tasks and offering new services.

The conversation also explores the benefits of flexible, short-term engagements and the potential pitfalls of long-term contracts. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 234: Adapting your agency for risk-averse clients appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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We are told, “AI won’t take your job.” Instead, “Someone who knows how to use AI will take your job.”

Tell that to the scores of copywriters who have already lost their jobs to generative AI. With ChatGPT and its competitors in the frontier LLM space being used to write more than anything else, agencies and organizations are figuring out how to craft prompts that turn out decent copy. Some copywriters are figuring out how to stay relevant, though, including taking gigs improving the copy these AI tools churn out.

In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel examine these trends and wonder what they mean for other communication jobs.

Links from this episode:

• AI took their jobs. Now they get paid to make it sound human
• Artificial Intelligence (AI) and the Future of Copywriting
• The Impact of AI on Copywriting Jobs in the Next 5 Years
• Facebook post on using an AI tool instead of a ghostwriter
• Don’t Be Naive, AI Will Take Jobs, by David Armano
• Marshall Goldsmith’s AI Bot

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #413: AI Is Coming for Copywriters appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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“If an employee is too critical to take vacation, your problem isn’t the employee.”

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of ensuring that no one in an agency, including owners and key employees, is too indispensable to take time off. They explore the belief versus reality of being irreplaceable, and provide actionable strategies for agency owners to create processes allowing team members to take vacations without disrupting operations.

The conversation touches on company culture, employee empowerment, and the benefits of experimenting with practices like four-day work weeks and dedicated days for business focus. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 233: Building an agency culture where everyone can take time off appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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You work for one of the biggest consulting firms in the world. You’ve been told that taking a voluntary separation package from the company is in your best interest. When you agree (not that you had much choice), you’re asked to sign an agreement that not only won’t you disparage the company, but you’ll use the language provided to you to let your colleagues know why you’re leaving (nothing bad about the company) and how great your time there has been. With more than 330,000 employees in this company, won’t anybody think identical farewell messages from multiple employees find this a bit suspicious? That’s what happened at PwC, our lead topic in this monthly long-form FIR episode for June 2024.

Also in this episode: Megainfluencers charge as much as $1.5 million for a single post. Could you do better with a bunch of mico and nanoinfluencers? New studies are out from Deloitte and McKinsey on the state of AI in the workplace. AI avatars and coworkers are starting to show up in some companies as the tools to create them get easier to deploy. Publishers worldwide have been hit by Facebook deleting posts that have been inaccurately identified as spam. And your favorite brand that showed such commitment to that social cause a few years ago? They don’t care about being “woke” anymore.

Dan York is focused on policy in his Tech Report, looking at age verification laws that are popping up all over the place, Canada imposing a tax on streaming services (after a less-than-optimal experience with a link tax), and a U.S. Supreme Court Decision is due about content moderation.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, July 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

Links from this episode:

• PwC asks for silence from departing staff in programme of UK job cuts
• Neville Hobson on LinkedIn: PwC Forces People Out and Then Tells Them to Fib in Their Farewell Emails
• The Long Tail of Social Media Influence
• Deloitte Generative AI Survey find Adoption is Moving Fast, but Organizational Change is Key to Accelerate Scaling
• State of Generative AI in the Enterprise 2024
• The state of AI in early 2024: Gen AI adoption spikes and starts to generate value
• Is It OK to Use AI Avatars in Employee Communication?
• Asana introduces ‘AI teammates’ designed to work alongside human employees
• Publishers around the world hit by Facebook labelling news as spam
• Shel’s LinkedIn post about Facebook removing FIR updates
• Your favorite brand no longer cares about being woke

Links from Dan York’s Report:

• New York Passes Legislation to Ban Addictive Social Media Algorithms for Kids
• Mississippi is the Latest State Sued by Tech Group over Age Verification on Websites
• Canada Imposes 5% Tax on Streaming Services to Fund Local News and Diverse Content
• Link Taxes Backfire: Canadian News Outlets Lose Out, Meta Unscathed
• Can You Kick Trolls out of Your Online Forum? U.S. Supreme Court to Decide

The post FIR #412: Don’t Let the Door Hit You on Your Way Out appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Several studies seem to suggest that a small cadre of “supersharers” was responsible for spreading 80 percent of “fake news” on X (formerly Twitter) in 2020. Further, by removing these supersharers from the platforms they use to spread misinformation and disinformation, the number of lies appearing on the social network plummeted. What’s more, another study found that most people aren’t swayed by online misinformation and disinformation. As a result, all the panic about online misinformation and disinformation could be overblown.

Or not. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel examine the data and what’s missing to reach a conclusion about communicators’ role in addressing what’s true and what’s not online.

Links from this episode:

• The misinformation panic may be over
• Misinformation works, and a handful of social ‘supersharers’ sent 80% of it in 2020
• AI image misinformation has surged, Google researchers find
• Majorities in most countries surveyed say social media is good for democracy
• Are concerns about misinformation and disinformation online overblown?

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 17.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. To obtain the credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request them in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #411: Are We Unnecessarily Panicked About Online Disinformation? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Don’t sugarcoat it when writing up a job description or interviewing potential new hires – painting a rosy picture that doesn’t match reality will only cause you headaches down the road.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of being open and honest about work expectations at your agency, including hours, tasks, and working conditions. They emphasize the need for clear communication during the hiring process to ensure the best fit between you and your employees.

None of this gives you license to abuse your team members, but it is better to acknowledge things that new employees may not like before you bring them on board and have a much bigger problem to solve. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 232: Setting honest expectations for your agency employees from the start appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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PRovoke Media broke a story about at least 11 fake profiles of people who listed a PR recruitment firm as their employers. LinkedIn removed them as fakes—an action with which the business-centric social network is all too familiar. So far, no other media outlets seem interested in the story. Still, Neville and Shel wonder about the motivation behind the profiles — under other circumstances, fake profiles can easily be used for illicit purposes — and the amount of effort organizations will need to take to ensure profiles listing them as employers are legitimate.

Links from this episode:

• LinkedIn Removes Fake Employee Profiles Tied To PR Recruitment Firm

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 17.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #410: Who’s Behind All Those Fake LinkedIn Profiles? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Despite the excitement over the possibilities generative AI provides, it was easy to predict that doubters would insist it’s just a fad — the same naysaying we heard about email, the web, social media, podcasting, live streaming, and a host of other digital technologies. In this case, the reports conflict with other research showing rapid adoption, even if we’re not anywhere close to widespread consumer use of gen AI tools, which nobody expects after only 18 months since ChatGPT 3.5 was unveiled. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel compare the reports and look at the potential for communicators to fall behind with yet another important technology.

Links from this episode:

• Is AI all a fad? A new report suggests very few people are using tools like ChatGPT and the hype is being misconstrued for actual public interest
• What does the public in six countries think of generative AI in news?
• New AI tools much hyped but not much used, study says
• Forward Thinking on the brave new world of generative AI with Ethan Mollick
• A.I. Promised to Upend the 2024 Campaign. It Hasn’t Yet.
• How Tech Journalists Are Fueling the AI Hype Machine
• TikTok: AI fakes, abuse and misinformation pushed to young voters
• Workers are secretly using AI on important tasks over fears it makes them look replaceable, new Microsoft and LinkedIn research finds

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 17.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #409: Just Another Fad appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Three IABC members comprise the 2024 class of IABC Fellows. Join moderator Shel Holtz for a conversation with Andrea Greenhous, Juli Holloway, and Theomary Karamanis to discuss their career paths and views on the day’s pressing communication issues.

The live stream begins at noon ET on Thursday, June 20. By watching the live stream, you will be able to participate in the conversation by submitting questions and observations through YouTube’s live chat function. If you’re unable to join us on the 20th, you can watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast.

About the panel:

Andrea Greenhous’s life’s purpose is to improve the world of work. For over 30 years, she has helped organizations improve the employee experience and build workplaces where people thrive. As founder and president of Vision2Voice, an internal communications agency, Andrea and her dedicated team help organizations adopt a strategic approach to employee communications to achieve results. Andrea has led initiatives and transformation projects for Fortune 500 technology companies, large government departments, and organizations as diverse as construction, biotech, finance, and higher education. This has led to a signature approach emphasizing harnessing employee voices and amplifying their insights and ideas.

Andrea is a storyteller, a PROSCI-certified change leader, and Dare to Lead trained based on the work and research of Brené Brown. She is also a certified Fearless Organization Practitioner. She uses the tools and processes developed by Amy C. Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, to build psychological safety in teams. Andrea has been named a top 10 influencer in internal communications and is a frequent guest blogger and speaker at industry events.

Juli Holloway is an Indigenous communications practitioner specializing in professional communication in Indigenous contexts. Throughout her career, Juli has been fortunate to work with First Nations and Indigenous organizations in British Columbia and across Canada to support transformative change for First Nation communities and people through strategic communications and community engagement.

Juli is the communications advisor at the Tulo Centre of Indigenous Economics. She leads communications, designs, and delivers a communications curriculum in university-accredited programs designed to advance Indigenous economic reconciliation. She is also an associate faculty member at Royal Roads University, where she teaches in the MA in Professional Communications program. In 2022, she earned the Outstanding Associate Faculty Award for Teaching Excellence in the MA Programs in 2022 for her innovative pedagogical methods. Juli is Haida and Kwakwaka’wakw and has been a guest on the traditional lands of the Secwépemc for 17 years. She belongs to the Skidegate Gidins, an eagle clan from the village of Skidegate on Haida Gwaii, and the Taylor (nee Nelson) family originating from Kingcome Inlet, home of one of the four tribes of the Musgamagw Dzawada̱ʼenux̱w.

Dr. Theomary Karamanis is a multiple award-winning communication professor and consultant with 25 years of global experience. She is currently a full-time Senior Lecturer of Management Communication at the Cornell SC Johnson College of Business and regularly delivers executive education programs in leadership communication, crisis communication, and strategic communication. She has held several professional leadership positions, including Chair of the GCCC (Global Communication Certification Council), chair of the IABC (International Association of Business Communicators) Academy, and Chair of the IABC Awards committee.

Her academic background includes a PhD in communication studies, a Master of Arts in mass communication, and a post-graduate certificate in telecommunications –all from Northwestern University, as well as a bachelor’s degree in economics from the Athens University of Economics and Business. She also holds professional certifications as a Strategic Communication Management Professional (SCMP), online facilitator, and executive program instructor. She has received 40 professional communication awards, including 12 Platinum MarCom awards, 7 Gold Quill awards, 4 Silver Quill awards, and a Comm Prix award. In 2020 she received the Award for Excellence in Communication Consulting by APCC (Association of Professional Communication Consultants) and ABC (Association for Business Communication). She is the author of several books and academic papers on communication, and she also regularly delivers presentations at international conferences and other business forums.

The post The 2024 IABC Fellows Class Will Share Their Views on June’s Circle of Fellows appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Gen Z employees tend to have a different (not worse!) approach to their jobs than the older generations do. Which means that as an owner, you need to evolve the way you communicate with and manage them.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss those differences and the importance of effective communication and feedback in managing and leading. They highlight the need for two-way feedback and setting clear expectations, which will in turn foster a culture of trust and creativity in the workplace. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 231: Agencies need to adapt to effectively manage Gen Z employees appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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PwC has released a detailed report analyzing over half a billion job ads from 15 companies representing over 30 percent of global GDP. The goal: unearth empirical evidence of AI’s impact on jobs. The results are remarkable, if unsurprising. For example, the analysis found 4.8 times higher growth in labor productivity in AI-exposed sectors and 25 percent higher skills change in AI-exposed occupations. Jobs that require specialist AI skills are growing 3.5 times faster than all jobs. Neville and Shel report on highlights and discuss the multi-dimensional impact on communicators in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• AI Jobs Barometer
• Ethan Mollick’s LinkedIn post on Google’s research on AI and worker productivity

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 17.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #108: AI’s Impact on Jobs, Quantified appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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It must be nice to own an agency because then you’re earning the big bucks, right?

Many agency employees complain that clients pay so much more than they are making, so the owner must be reaping a huge profit.

It makes it easy to think that setting out on your own and working for clients directly is the right answer.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the realities of quitting your job to start your own agency, emphasizing the importance of understanding the costs of owning a business, and how as an owner it’s up to you to communicate transparently to your team how revenue is not the same as profit.[read the transcript]

The post ALP 230: Should you start your own agency because your boss is making too much off of your work? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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White-collar employees everywhere are embracing AI, even if they’re using their own accounts and not telling their colleagues or bosses. This widespread adoption of AI among workers is already creating challenges for managers, who traditionally evaluate their team members based on outputs that may now be coming in whole or in part from an AI. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel explore what this means for managers and the internal communicators who recognize them as a discrete audience.

Links from this episode:

• AI is already changing management — companies must decide how
• How AI is supercharging work right now
• Thirst for AI knowledge drives growth in executive courses

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 17.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #407: AI Is Changing How Managers Manage appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Chip and Gini discuss recent updates from the federal government affecting agency owners, including a ban on non-compete agreements and changes to salary thresholds for overtime exempt employees.

It emphasizes the importance of compliance, working with professional advisors, and making necessary adjustments to HR policies. [read the transcript]The post ALP 229: What new rules on overtime and non-competes mean for agencies appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Among a flood of AI announcements in the last week — including remarkable advances in ChatGPT — Google’s move to produce narrative results called “overviews” instead of web links caused the most consternation. Neville and Shel break down all the news and focus in on Google’s overviews in this long-form episode for May. Also in this episode, a Baidu executive wound up in hot water after remarks that offended employees and customers; Australian media manipulated a photo of a member of parliament, launching conversations about ethical use of AI when it comes to photos; Apple misfired on both an advertisement and its apology, but Bumble’s apology is a prime example of how to apologize for a miscalculation; and a lot of venture capital money is going to companies offering apps that provide people with AI companions. In his Tech Report, Dan York, looks at evolutions among social media alternatives, a renewed interest in online communities, and Google’s new AI-generated answers.

Links from this episode:

• Introducing GPT-4o (YouTube video)
• Hello GPT-4o (OpenAI announcement)
• Introducing GPT-4o and more tools to ChatGPT free users
• OpenAI debuts GPT-4o ‘omni’ model now powering ChatGPT
• OpenAI’s latest chatbot jokes and pretends to blush
• OpenAI debuts GPT-4o ‘omni’ model now powering ChatGPT
• ChatGPT’s new voice welcomes interruptions
• With OpenAI’s Release of GPT-4o, Is ChatGPT Plus Still Worth It?
• Claude is now available in Europe
• Amazon-backed Anthropic launches its Claude AI chatbot across Europe
• Google IO
• Google’s broken link to the web
• Everything Goole Announced at IO 2024
• Google rolls out AI Overviews in US with more countries coming soon
• Google Takes the Next Step in Its A.I. Evolution
• Google rolls out AI-generated, summarized search results in US
• It’s the End of Google Search As We Know It
• Google unleashes AI in search, raising hopes for better results and fears about less web traffic
• Google is redesigning its search engine — and it’s AI all the way down
• Google’s New Search Engine Is Bad News for the Web Economy
• Google is “reimagining” search in “the Gemini era” with AI Overviews
• OpenAI’s Long-Term AI Risk Team Has Disbanded
• Baidu executive tells staff: ‘I’m not your mum’
• Chinese PR boss says sorry after glorifying work-till-you-drop culture
• PR executive reportedly departs China’s Baidu after comments glorifying overwork draw backlash
• PR executive at Chinese tech firm Baidu apologizes for comments seen as glorifying overwork
• Meet the woman taking on AI, its ‘fake’ models and alarming beauty standards
• Monique Zytnik’s LinkedIn post on AI manipulation of images
• Apple’s ‘crush’ advert annoys people across the generations – that’s why it misfired
• A rare misstep by Apple – “we missed the mark”
• Why Apple’s ‘Crush’ ad is so misguided
• Apple apologizes for iPad “Crush” ad that “missed the mark”
• Apple’s Crush ad (YouTube)
• Bumble apologizes for its anti-celibacy ad fiasco
• Artificial Intelligence ‘Friends’

Links from Dan York’s Tech Report

• Threads tests Tweetdeck-like interface
• Bluesky to add DMs, video support, and in-app custom feed curation
• Bluesky product roadmap
• Trunk Tidbits from the Mastodon Blog
• X Pushes More Users to Communities
• Reddit Reintroduces Its Awards System
• Maven Is a New Social Network That Eliminates Followers—and Hopefully Stress
• Google’s broken link to the web
• Google’s new “Web” search gives text-only results

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 17.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #406: Alas, SEO, We Knew You Well appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Felicity Barber, founder of Thoughtful Communications, has penned speeches and spearheaded executive communications for some of the world’s most prominent financial institutions, including BlackRock, the Federal Reserve and Lloyds of London. Through her extensive experience, Felicity has discovered that storytelling—or as she calls it, “spinning a good yarn”—is one of the most effective ways to convey complex topics.

In this episode, Felicity shares how humor and openness can transform executive communications. She emphasizes the power of authenticity in storytelling to deliver key messages.

“A story gives a speech a really nice sense of completeness,” Felicity explains. “Adding an anecdote, or anything that humanizes the leader delivering the message, is a powerful way to connect with audiences.”

This engaging conversation delves into the challenges of executive communication, such as building trust with leaders and delivering strategic feedback. Felicity’s insights on honest communication and setting the right expectations offer valuable guidance for anyone looking to advance in their executive comms career.

The founder of Thoughtful Communications, Felicity Barber has written speeches and led executive communication for some of the most high-profile financial institutions in the world, including BlackRock, the Federal Reserve, and Lloyds of London. In her experience, she has found that one of the best ways to convey complex subject matters is to find a way to tell a story or, as she often puts it, “spin a good yarn.”

For more from Felicity, you can:

• Subscribe to her newsletter at thoughtfulcomms.com.
• Subscribe to her podcast, The Friendly Ghost.
• Reach out on LinkedIn.

The post EPISODE #78: CRAFTING STORIES THAT RESONATE – FELICITY BARBER ON EXECUTIVE COMMS appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Patrick Rogan of Ignition HR joins Chip to discuss the FTC’s new ruling on non-compete agreements and expected adjustments to overtime pay regulations.

They discuss strategies for managing overtime and compensation issues in small agencies, highlighting the importance of compliance, proactive planning, and seeking HR assistance when necessary. [read the transcript]

The post CWC 100: Practical HR advice on new overtime and non-compete rules (featuring Patrick Rogan) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Hiring seasoned professionals sounds like it will solve a lot of headaches you have as an agency owner. But will it?

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of balancing senior and junior hires in agencies, highlighting the pros and cons of primarily staffing with senior level talent.

They emphasize the need for clear expectations, relevant experience, and the importance of understanding what each hire truly needs to do before you commit to senior level hires.[read the transcript]

The post ALP 228: Should your small agency hire senior-level pros? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Just how much influence do online influencers wield? According to a Sprout Social report, nearly half of all consumers make purchases based on influencer recommendations, and influencers appear to nobody more than Gen Zers. Those born between 1997 and 2012 — the oldest of whom are now in their mid-20s with increasing buying power — are even partial to AI-generated influencers, casting doubt on the importance of authenticity (and even how authenticity is defined). Neville and Shel break down the report and explore what it means to marketers in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode

• Influencer Marketing | Success
• Gen Z mostly doesn’t care if influencers are actual humans, new study shows
• Gen Z curious about brands utilizing AI influencers: Study
• New Research Reveals Influencers Significantly Drive Purchasing Decisions – Company Announcement

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #405: Gen Z’s Connection with Influencers appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Meetings have evolved over the last few decades, so shouldn’t the agency owner’s role have changed?

In this episode, Chip and Brad Farris of Anchor Advisors discuss the importance of effective leadership and meetings in agencies, emphasizing the owner’s unique role in providing vision and direction.

They explore the need for well-structured meetings with agendas, purpose, and active participation from all members.

The conversation touches on techniques for better meetings, the role of leaders in encouraging participation, and the value of appreciating contributions and creating positive meeting experiences. [read the transcript]

The post CWC 99: Modernizing leadership in meetings (featuring Brad Farris) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The need to promote ethical behavior in communications has never been greater as the volumes of misinformation and disinformation continue to rise with the growing use of AI fueling the speed with which unethical behavior intensifies. Marketers debate whether using AI in marketing is ethical in the first place, and when it is used, and whether and when it needs to be disclosed. And all the ethical dilemmas communicators faced before AI remain as challenging as ever.

Join four International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) Fellows for a live-streamed panel discussion about ethics in today’s communication environment. By watching in real time, you will be able to participate with questions and observations. If you’re unable to attend the live stream, you will be able to watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast at your convenience. The panel will convene at 9 a.m. EDT on Thursday, May 23, with Brad Whitworth moderating.

About the panel:

Todd “Tosh” Hattori — Leveraging 20+ years of leading in-house communication functions within a variety of organizations and industries, Tosh shifted his career focus toward helping organization leaders address business challenges by setting and implementing organizational excellence strategies. He is currently the continuous improvement lead for F5 Networks where he applies Lean Six Sigma methods to collaborate with cross-functional teams to eliminate waste and establish consistencies that deliver exceptional employee and customer experiences. Tosh also serves on the volunteer board of directors for the Technology Access Foundation, a national model / leader in providing science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) education to students of color; and improving diversity, upward mobility, and retention of teachers-of-color in Washington.

George McGrath is founder and managing principal of McGrath Business Communications, which helps clients build winning corporate reputations, promote their products and services, and advance their views on key issues. George brings more than 25 years in PR and public affairs to his firm. Over the course of his career, he has held senior management positions at leading strategic communications and integrated marketing agencies including Hill and Knowlton, Carl Byoir & Associates, and Brouillard Communications.

Jane Mitchell’s career began at the BBC in London on live TV programs. She moved on to producing award-winning films and videos for public and private sector organizations and developed groundbreaking employee engagement programs. Since 2006 when she formed her own consultancy, she now guides organizations, (some of which have experienced cultural trauma), with embedding values and ethics through understanding culture and leadership and their link to high-performing sustainable organizations. She has worked with Top 100 companies across the world, is a regular conference speaker and writer, and is a Director of two highly successful UK-based agencies. Jane has been a member of IABC since 2008 and has had the privilege of serving on local, regional, and International IABC Boards. She is currently Chair of the 2021 World Conference and was awarded the honor of IABC Fellow in March.

Jennifer Wah, MC, ABC, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. The company operates as a strategic alliance of hand-picked professionals; all renowned for work in their areas of specialization. This approach means the right team is assembled for each project; no more, no less. With more than two dozen awards for strategic communications, writing and consulting, Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare to financial services to academia, and is passionate about the opportunity for stories to inspire actions and reactions within organizations.In 2013, Jennifer was named Associate Faculty of Royal Roads University, and in this capacity, continues to teach, coach and mentor others with an interest in business communication.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He is a senior executive communications leader at Pacific Gas & Electric. During his career, he has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California, a wine country, and grows Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes worldwide. Brad is a past board chair of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

The post New Ethical Challenges Face Communicators. Learn How to Address Them. appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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For several years, bolstered by research showing the public trusts business more than any other institution to address societal issues, companies have taken positions on everything from the environment to LGBTQ rights. As the U.S. population grew more polarized, though, those on the other side of a company’s position made things increasingly difficult for those organizations. Yet companies understand that the younger workers they want to attract put a high premium on working for purposeful organizations. Some companies are finding an alternate approach to fulfilling that need by turning to a not-so-new activity: company-sponsored volunteerism.

Links from this episode:

• Seeking engagement and purpose, corporate employees turn to workplace volunteering
• Corporate Advocacy in a Time of Social Outrage
• Company Bosses Draw a Red Line on Office Activists
• Unleashing the Good in Your Workforce: 10 Ways to Encourage Employee Volunteering
• Examples of robust workplace volunteer programs in the UK.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #404: Purpose Without the Peril appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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You trust your team, right? In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the importance of agency owners letting go of micromanaging, trusting their team, and focusing on building a scalable business. They emphasize the need for owners to delegate tasks and avoid being bottlenecks.

They also touch on the challenges and benefits of transitioning from being deeply involved in all aspects of the business to taking on a more strategic role. The conversation underscores the significance of balancing involvement while ensuring clients feel supported and valued. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 227: Building trust and letting your team shine appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The author of an AI-focused newsletter suggests that companies need to establish discrete ethics policies for using Artificial Intelligence (AI). With all the codes of ethics out there designed to address anything and everything, is this really necessary? Neville and Shel don’t see eye to eye in April’s monthly long-form FIR episode. Also in episode 403, there’s a new beauty pageant — just for AI-generated women. While critics pile on with their disdain for this idea, the Dove brand is coming at AI-generated beauty differently, which you might expect if you’ve followed the Unilever company’s 20-year-old Real Beauty campaign. TikTok needs to find a non-Chinese buyer or be banned from app stores in the U.S. if the new law can survive the challenges it will surely face in terms of freedom of speech. Peter Shankman revived his free email service, Help A Reporter Out, under a new name. He had previously sold the service to what is now Cision, and Cision has essentially killed it. So Peter re-invented it as Help Every Reporter Out. Imagine an accountant who failed to use AI to review financials when the AI might have caught a fraudulent entry the accountant missed. Could that accountant be held liable for not using AI? It’s a question every profession should be pondering. And you may find yourself working alongside a synthetic employee before too long. In his Tech Report, Dan York looks at 20 years of editing Wikipedia, WordPress’s announcement of a new way to develop sites locally, Mastodon’s establishment of a U.S. nonprofit, the status of Threads’ integration with ActivityPub, and the Internet Society’s post on the internet and climate change.

Links from this episode:

• Making the Case for an AI Marketing Ethics Policy
• Technology Trust Ethics (PDF from Deloitte)
• World’s First AI Pageant To Judge Winner On Beauty And Social Media Clout
• Exclusive: World’s first beauty pageant for AI women is announced
• Read comments on the AI Pageant on the Facebook House of Marketing & PR community of practice
• Dove pledges to not use AI models in lieu of real women in its advertising
• The TikTok bill passed. Here’s what PR pros need to know.
• Andy Lambert on LinkedIn: I honestly didn’t think this would happen; The US TikTok ban has been passed
• ByteDance would shut down TikTok in US rather than sell it, sources say
• Congress passed a TikTok bill. Will the US really ban the app?
• TikTok User Statistics 2024: Everything You Need To Know
• Everything TikTok users need to know about a possible ban in the U.S.
• 19 Ways TikTok Changed America
• LinkedIn is experimenting with a TikTok-like video feed in its app
• Help Every Reporter Out
• Christopher Penn on LinkedIn: Using Google Gemini with Help Every Reporter Out (HERO)
• It will soon be negligent not to use AI, Master of the Rolls predicts
• Speech by the Master of the Rolls: AI – Transforming the work of lawyers and judges – Courts and Tribunals Judiciary
• Building Your First Synthetic Employee
• Synthetic Employees, your Ai colleague

Links from Dan York’s Tech Report

• 20 Years as a Wikipedia Editor
• WordPress announces “Studio”, a new way to develop sites locally
• Mastodon forms new U.S. non-profit
• President Biden is now posting into the fediverse
• Threads on Mastodon and The Bright Future of the Fediverse
• Threads Has 150 Million Monthly Users
• The Internet and Climate Change (from the Internet Society)

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #403: Does Marketing Need a Separate Ethics Standard for AI? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Four distinguished IABC Fellows discussed the myriad benefits of earning the Communication Management Professional (CMP) or Strategic Communication Management Professional (SCMP) certification offered through the Global Communication Certification Council (GCCC). The panel shed light on how becoming a CMP or SCMP not only elevates your credibility but also significantly enhances your strategic communication skills. Whether you’re looking to advance in your career, expand your network, or stay ahead in the ever-evolving field of corporate communication, this conversation is tailor-made for you.

Our panelists shared insights into the certification journey— from preparation to examination and beyond. They will also share personal anecdotes and professional advice on leveraging this certification to its fullest potential for individual career growth and organizational success.

About the panel

Zora Artis is a leading Alignment, Brand, and Communication Strategist. She works with executive and senior leaders to unlock the value in their people, brands, and organizations through alignment with purpose, promise and strategies, and effective communication. She has over three decades of experience in business, brand, marketing, communication, and advertising, working with government, private, and non-profit sectors. This includes roles as Group Account Director, Strategy Director, and CEO of integrated marcomms and advertising firms. She now runs her own management consulting practice, bringing together strategic alignment, capability training, and brand and communications expertise. Zora holds a Master’s in Marketing and Commerce and is a trained facilitator in alignment, design thinking, and business model generation.

Ginger Homan, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, counsels senior leaders seeking to bring out the best in their people and their brands. Her award-winning communication model for driving transformation has been used to change behaviors, align cultures, and build thriving communities worldwide. Her work with senior communication professionals has enabled them to align their department goals with business goals, achieve measurable results, and expand their influence. Founder of Zia Communication, she is a seasoned speaker, coach, and workshop facilitator. Her clients include Walmart, the Walmart Foundation, the Walton Family Foundation, T.D. Williamson, CITGO Petroleum, Phillips Seminary, and MOSAIC. Ginger’s work has been honored by IABC, PRSA, and SMPS on the local, regional, and international levels. A past chair of IABC, her volunteer work has been honored with three IABC International Chair’s Awards for leadership, and she is a recipient of the Leadership Tulsa Paragon Award for work in her local community.

Cindy Schmieg is an award-winning strategic communicator. Her 30+ years of corporate, agency, and consulting experience focuses on making the communications function strategic within an organization. Cindy now teaches online in the Communications Master Degree program at Southern New Hampshire. She has served in many IABC leadership roles and is today a member of the IABC Audit/Risk Committee and Pacific Plains Region Silver Quill Award Committee, as well as assisting on the IABC Minnesota Annual Convergence Summit.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He is a senior executive communications leader at Pacific Gas & Electric. During his career, he has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California, a wine country, and grows Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes worldwide. Brad is a past board chair of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

The post Circle of Fellows #103: IS IT WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT TO GET A PROFESSIONAL COMMUNICATION CERTIFICATION? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Let’s debunk a myth today: managing up isn’t about sucking up. In our second installment of “In Your Corner,” our career coaching segment, Sharon and I dive deep into what it really means to “manage up” and why it’s a critical skill for communicators. Managing up effectively is about making your indispensability known—creating a symbiotic relationship that helps support your career as well as enhances your team’s success.

We discuss:

• How understanding and aligning with your boss’s expectations and communication styles can dramatically improve your work relationship
• Practical examples from our real-life scenarios where managing up influenced workplace dynamics
• Tips on how to be proactive, such as sending weekly recaps to your boss to outline achievements and upcoming goals

Think of managing up as more than a career skill – it’s an essential partnership strategy that boosts both your growth and that of your leaders. Curious to see how this can support your professional interactions? Tune in for a deeper dive.

The post EPISODE #77: IN YOUR CORNER – MASTERING MANAGING UP appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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It has been five years since Google Plus closed down. While it never amassed the number of users of some of its rivals, many called it home and were cast adrift after its demise, unable to find an alternative that offered the same features and vibe. One Google Plus user lamented the loss and reflected on the lessons learned from her attempts to find a new social network to call home. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel discuss the fragmented nature of social networks and how the fediverse might one day resolve issues like those faced by refugees from Google Plus, Twitter, and other social networks that were no longer available or suited their needs.

Links from this episode:

• Five years after the demise of Google+: reflections on social media
• 11 social media trends you need to know in 2024 (Sprout Social)
• Americans’ Social Media Use (Pew Research Center)
• How social media network fragmentation will impact your 2024 strategy (Sprout Social)
• Fediverse (Wikipedia)

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #402: Your Favorite Social Network Just Shut Down. Now What? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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While public corporations employ (or contract with agencies that provide) media relations professionals, government agencies are likelier to have Public Information Officers (PIOs). Agencies, however, are not the only entities with PIOs, who differ from media relations practitioners by virtue of their engagement with multiple external stakeholder audiences, not just media. PIOs have plied their craft for NGOs, educational institutions, civic organizations, religious institutions, and even some big corporations.

Like those in media relations, PIOs are meant to be the first point of contact for a journalist seeking information, interviews, or answers from an organization. Journalists, however, are complaining that, over the last couple of decades, PIOs have been obstacles rather than conduits, hindering their ability to do their jobs instead of helping. It has gotten bad enough that the Society of Professional Journalists is leading a formal, orchestrated campaign to get PIOs to clean up their act; publications like the Columbia Journalism Review and organizations like the Poynter Institute are among many who have gotten onboard.

In this short midweek episode, Shel and Neville look at the SPJ’s argument and discuss whether the PIO (and media relations) profession needs to change or if they’re just whining about organizations’ PR representatives just doing their jobs.

Links from this episode:

• Public information officers (Society of Professional Journalists)
• How to deal with obstructive public information officers? Challenge them. (Columbia Journalism Review)
• SPJ research suggests that a surge in PIOs negatively impacts journalism (Poynter)

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #401: The Battle Between PIOs and Journalists appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In a LinkedIn post, Techcrunch Sr. Enterprise Editor Frederic Lardinois lamented the ineffectiveness of an event-related press release he received. To date, 42 comments have agreed, many condemning the utter uselessness of press releases and the incompetence of those who produce them. Neville and Shel understand their frustration based on the poor quality of most press releases but defend the practice, when done right, for various reasons in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• Frederic Lardinois on LinkedIn: I understand that PR is hard, but when you’re making an announcement (or maybe dozens, if you’re hosting a major event)

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post Love Them Or Hate Them, Press Releases Can Still Deliver Value appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Google is ending third-party tracking cookies on Chrome, the last of the major browsers to take this privacy-enhancing action. Without these cookies, advertisers could see as much as a 70-percent decline in revenue from online ads. What are the alternatives? Neville and Shel break it all down in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• Massive changes coming to Google Chrome threaten to reshape the modern internet
• Google Chrome allows end to data tracking cookies
• Google turns off cookies for 30 million Chrome users, and that’s just 1%
• Four months in, here’s the rundown of Google’s Chrome cookie conundrum so far
• Google starts work on the 2nd phase of Third-Party Cookie Deprecation in Chrome (YouTube)
• Google to Fight Cookie Hijacking With Encryption Keys for Chrome Browser

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #399: No More Cookies For You appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Chip and Gini discuss the intricacies of fractional leadership roles within clients.

They share their experiences and provide advice on managing relationships, setting clear boundaries, handling administrative tasks, and positioning yourself accurately in these roles. [read the transcript]

The post ALP 226: Should your agency sell itself as a fractional CxO to clients? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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This month, join four distinguished IABC Fellows for a conversation about the myriad benefits of earning the Communication Management Professional (CMP) or Strategic Communication Management Professional (SCMP) certification offered through the Global Communication Certification Council (GCCC). The panel will shed light on how becoming a CMP or SCMP not only elevates your credibility but also significantly enhances your strategic communication skills. Whether you’re looking to advance in your career, expand your network, or stay ahead in the ever-evolving field of corporate communication, this conversation is tailor-made for you.

Our panelists will share insights into the certification journey— from preparation to examination and beyond. They will also share personal anecdotes and professional advice on leveraging this certification to its fullest potential for individual career growth and organizational success. Don’t miss this opportunity to gain a competitive edge in your communication career. Tune in, get inspired, and start your path toward becoming a CMP or SCMP.

The session is set for 5 p.m. ET on Thursday, April 18. Using YouTube Live’s chat feature, you can participate in the conversation by asking questions, sharing experiences, or contributing your own observations. If you cannot join us on the 18th, you can watch the video replay on YouTube or listen to the audio podcast version on the FIR Podcast Network.

About the panel

Zora Artis is a leading Alignment, Brand, and Communication Strategist. She works with executive and senior leaders to unlock the value in their people, brands, and organizations through alignment with purpose, promise and strategies, and effective communication. She has over three decades of experience in business, brand, marketing, communication, and advertising, working with government, private, and non-profit sectors. This includes roles as Group Account Director, Strategy Director, and CEO of integrated marcomms and advertising firms. She now runs her own management consulting practice, bringing together strategic alignment, capability training, and brand and communications expertise. Zora holds a Master’s in Marketing and Commerce and is a trained facilitator in alignment, design thinking, and business model generation.

Ginger Homan, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, counsels senior leaders seeking to bring out the best in their people and their brands. Her award-winning communication model for driving transformation has been used to change behaviors, align cultures, and build thriving communities worldwide. Her work with senior communication professionals has enabled them to align their department goals with business goals, achieve measurable results, and expand their influence. Founder of Zia Communication, she is a seasoned speaker, coach, and workshop facilitator. Her clients include Walmart, the Walmart Foundation, the Walton Family Foundation, T.D. Williamson, CITGO Petroleum, Phillips Seminary, and MOSAIC. Ginger’s work has been honored by IABC, PRSA, and SMPS on the local, regional, and international levels. A past chair of IABC, her volunteer work has been honored with three IABC International Chair’s Awards for leadership, and she is a recipient of the Leadership Tulsa Paragon Award for work in her local community.

Cindy Schmieg is an award-winning strategic communicator. Her 30+ years of corporate, agency, and consulting experience focuses on making the communications function strategic within an organization. Cindy now teaches online in the Communications Master Degree program at Southern New Hampshire. She has served in many IABC leadership roles and is today a member of the IABC Audit/Risk Committee and Pacific Plains Region Silver Quill Award Committee, as well as assisting on the IABC Minnesota Annual Convergence Summit.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He is a senior executive communications leader at Pacific Gas & Electric. During his career, he has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California, a wine country, and grows Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes worldwide. Brad is a past board chair of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

The post Is It Worth the Time and Effort to Get a Professional Communication Certification? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Artificial intelligence (AI) is making significant strides in various domains, and voice technology is no exception. OpenAI, a prominent player in the AI industry, has recently announced Voice Engine, a groundbreaking development in AI text-to-voice technology that will create natural-sounding voices based on a 15-second clip of your (or anybody’s) voice. OpenAI claims Voice Engine will deliver unparalleled realism and naturalness in computer-generated speech, surpassing the capabilities of existing solutions offered by companies like 11 Labs.

In this short midweek episode, we delve into OpenAI’s voice technology and explore its potential applications across different industries. We also discuss the ethical considerations that communicators need to keep in mind. We discuss the potential for misuse, such as the creation of convincing deepfakes and the spread of misinformation, and highlight the importance of responsible development and deployment of AI voice technology.

Links from this episode:

• Voice Engine – Navigating the Challenges and Opportunities of Synthetic Voices
• OpenAI Can Re-Create Human Voices—but Won’t Release the Tech Yet
• Hume AI
• How to Clone Your Voice With 11 Labs

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #398: The AI Version of Your (or Anybody’s) Voice appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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“Thought leadership” is a term that gets bandied about a lot. (A Google search for the term produced over 100 million results.) You have to question whether everything labeled thought leadership actually is, suggesting the quality of thought leadership leaves something to be desired. In fact, a recent study from Edelman and LinkedIn finds doubts about the quality of thought leadership but also reveals that when it’s done right, it can be huge dividends for organizations, from building trust to driving business. Neville and Shel share some of the study’s findings in this short midweek episode.

Links from this episode:

• 2024 Edelman-LinkedIn B2B Thought Leadership Impact Report
• 7 takeaways from a study on B2B thought leadership; why it works or doesn’t
• Never stand still: Keeping ahead of competitors through thought leadership
• What Thought Leadership Is and What It Should Never Be
• The value of corporate thought leadership
• 12 Companies That Lead the Way in Thought Leadership

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #397: Some Thought Leadership on Thought Leadership appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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AI-powered tools like Perplexity are replacing Google as the go-to search resource for a growing number of people. Even AI tools that are not focused on searching the web, like Microsoft’s Copilot and Claude’s pro version, provide links to resources in their results. Is it enough to dethrone Google, which has held sway over search for decades? Some say yes, while others question whether AI is best for the variety of different uses to which people put Google. Neville and Shel are not in complete agreement on this one.

Links from this episode:

• Is the Era of Search Engines Coming to an End?
• Search engine results are getting worse, research confirms
• Is Google’s 20-year dominance of search in peril?
• The Future of Online Search: A Closer Look at Perplexity AI (by Neville Hobson)
• Perplexity is ready to take on Google
• Here’s why AI search engines really can’t kill Google
• As AI Expands, Public Trust Seems To Be Falling
• Financial Times tests an AI chatbot trained on decades of its own articles
• Here’s why AI search engines really can’t kill Google

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 29.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat most Thursdays at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this podcast are Shel’s and Neville’s and do not reflect the views of their employers and/or clients.

The post FIR #396: Will AI End Google’s Search Dominance? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss best practices for conducting effective exit interviews, including who should run them and what they should include. Continue Reading →

The post ALP 203: The value of employee exit interviews for agencies appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Generative Artificial Intelligence has a lot to offer bloggers, from easier research to better SEO. It can also let people crank out torrents of posts. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel examine the benefits and risks AI presents to bloggers and whether blogs are more or less important in the AI era.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #353: Blogging in the AI Era appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Generative Artificial Intelligence is poised to become a wild card in upcoming elections, most notably the 2024 presidential election in the U.S. Its primary use will be the creation of disinformation. But can voters be swayed by this flood of new content that (let’s face it) joins the flood of disinformation people have been creating without AI? Neville and Shel look at multiple sides of the issue in this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, October 2 (but it will be the September episode).

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• How worried should you be about AI disrupting elections?

The post FIR #352: AI and Elections — Should We Panic? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Chip and Gini are tired of all of the bad pitches from agencies that they find in their inboxes. They simply can’t take any more.

In this episode, they examine some of the really poor sales emails and pitches to have guests on their podcasts that they have seen lately.

It’s time for agencies to knock it off and put more thought into how they pitch themselves and their clients.[read the transcript]The post ALP 202: Let’s talk about bad agency pitches appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Don't miss the exclusive live panel discussion hosted by the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) on September 21 at noon EDT. Tune in as an esteemed panel of IABC Fellows explores the intersection of leadership and communication and how those at the top can leverage their communication skills to drive business success. These leaders will share their insights on communicating vision, values, and purpose; creating alignment around the business plan; motivating teams; and more. Whether you're an aspiring communicator or a seasoned executive, this can't-miss event will provide strategic advice to help you empower teams, connect with stakeholders, and boost leadership impact through effective communication.

Using YouTube’s live chat feature, you will be able to ask questions and share your own observations and experiences in real time. If you are unable to join us live, the episode will be available shortly after the panel wraps up as a YouTube video replay and an audio podcast.
Continue Reading →

The post Thought Leaders Discuss Leadership in Communication in September Circle of Fellows appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Can there be too many podcasts? That’s just one question a panel of podcast luminaries answered for The Hollywood Reporter. Neville and Shel highlight key comments and discuss the direction podcasting is taking and whether it remains relevant for organizational communicators in this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, October 2 (but it will be the September episode).

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. You can catch up with both co-hosts on Neville’s blog and Shel’s blog. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Bill Simmons, Alex Cooper, Emma Chamberlain and 36 More on The Future of Podcasting
• 75% of podcast consumers say a podcast should be defined as audio or video
• Spotify introduces new podcaster tools, including customized pages, analytics and other controls

The post FIR #351: No Such Thing as Peak Podcast appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The spectacular success of the Barbie movie has led Mattel to plan more than a dozen movies based on its brands, including Hot Wheels, Barney, Polly Pocket, Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, and American Girl -- not to mention a full-blown theme park (with a Barbie Beach, Hot Wheels rides, and a massive He-Man and the Masters of the Universe laser tag arena. Mattel's competitors are also making plans for movie versions of its products. Movies based on toys are nothing new (we've seen multiple Transformers movies, GI Joe movies, and a He-Man flick). But Barbie raised the bar. Will the inevitable flood of toy-branded movies rise to that level or just be the schlock we've come to expect? Neville and Shel dissect the possibilities in this short midweek episode.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #350: Success Breeds Imitation appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode of Chats with Chip, Juliana Marulanda of ScaleTime explains why creating and documenting repeatable processes for your agency can make a big difference in outcomes for your business and your clients.
Continue Reading →

The post CWC 92: Process matters for agencies (featuring Juliana Marulanda) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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"Pity Marketing" is having a moment. Multiple reports have surfaced of people sharing tales of woe, mostly on the X (formerly Twitter) social network, leading many who see the posts to pull out their wallets. Could the same technique work for bigger brands? Also in the August long-form episode of "For Immediate Release":

• The Associated Press has published its AI guidelines for journalists
• Big advertisers are rushing to take advantage of AI
• Gartner has pegged AI at the peak of inflated expectations
• Motion identities are now a requirement for brands
• Brands are starting to sound alike on social media

In his Tech Report, Dan York reports on Twitch's plans to roll out blocking, new features on Threads, developments with Mastodon, a new fediverse report, and scientists scaling back their use of X (formerly Twitter).
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #349: Marketing’s Pity Party appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The goal of communication in any organization is for the recipient to think, feel, or do something. Most often, the outcome we seek is a behavior: We want the recipient to do more of what they’re already doing, do something differently, or do something new. Conveying information alone will rarely inspire someone to action. That requires communicators to add creativity to the mix. In this Circle of Fellows episode, four IABC Fellows explore the application of creativity to business outcomes, including the various approaches one might take, the differences between influencing employees and other stakeholders, and convincing leadership that creativity is an appropriate business communication technique.
Continue Reading →

The post Circle of Fellows #95: From Meh to Marvelous appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Prosecraft was a useful site for wanna-be fiction writers. It violated no copyright rules and did nothing that should have been upsetting to authors whose works were included in the site's library. For several years, nobody gave it a second thought. But as AI has raised worries among creatives, some authors jerked their knees and demanded their works be removed. The loss of Prosecraft is bad enough. The chilling effect could be worse. Neville and Shel discuss the potential consequences of AI panic in this short midweek episode.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #348: The Consequences of AI Panic appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Hollywood stars Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney made headlines when they bought the Wrexham Association Football Club. Since then they have poured cash into the team and applied business savvy to build a global fan base for the obscure Welsh club. Among the tactics employed was a digital media strategy focused on entertaining storytelling centered on team members and coaches. Can that approach work for other sports teams or businesses that don't have the star power of a Ryan Reynolds to draw attention? Neville and Shel discuss the story in this short midweek episode.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #347: Digital Media, Star Power, and Wrexham appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini look at when you should be looking for specific kinds of hires and whether they should be specialists, generalists, or fractional support.
Continue Reading →

The post ALP 201: Should your agency hire specialists, generalists, or fractional team members? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini talk about the unicorn hunting problem and what you can do about it as an agency owner.
Continue Reading →

The post ALP 200: Are you trying to hire unicorns for your agency? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The goal of communication in any organization is for the recipient to think, feel, or do something. Most often, the outcome we seek is a behavior: We want the recipient to do more of what they're already doing, do something differently, or do something new. Conveying information alone will rarely inspire someone to action. That requires communicators to add creativity to the mix. In this Circle of Fellows episode, four IABC Fellows will explore the application of creativity to business outcomes, including the various approaches one might take, the differences between influencing employees and other stakeholders, and convincing leadership that creativity is an appropriate business communication technique.

The panel will be streamed live at noon EDT on Thursday, August 17. Using YouTube's live chat feature, you will be able to ask questions and share your own observations and experiences in realtime. If you are unable to join us live, the episode will be available shortly after the panel wraps up as a YouTube video replay and an audio podcast.
Continue Reading →

The post Circle of Fellows #95: From Meh to Marvelous appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In 1995, MIT Media Lab Director Nicholas Negroponte predicted "The Daily Me," a digital newspaper that would feature articles that aligned with the interests of each individual reader, leaving out news a well-rounded person might need to know. Now, courtesy of AI, a company is planning to develop a daily 30-minute newscast with AI-generated anchors sharing coverage of stories based on each viewer's interests. The concept can be useful where audience segmentation is important but also raises some serious questions, which Neville and Shel ponder in this short midweek episode.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #346: The Daily Me, Video Version appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Longtime FIR listener (and one-time contributor) Bernie Goldbach asked Neville and Shel how they find quality conversations. That opened up a discussion about sources of information for staying current on communication and technology trends and how those habits have changed over the years.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #345: Sources of Information appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Agency owners ask Chip and Gini all the time how they can figure out what to delegate — and how to do it — to free up time in their days.
Continue Reading →

The post ALP 199: Stop asking what you can delegate as an agency owner appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Have you ever thought about writing a book to leverage as a tool for demonstrating your expertise and building the profile of yourself and your agency?
Continue Reading →

The post CWC 91: Co-authoring a book with an all-star team (featuring Kami Huyse) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini explore how — and why — you should be more thoughtful about how you hand out titles to employees.
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The post ALP 198: Be smart about titles at your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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AI rewrote 50 of the best-known brand slogans, and survey respondents preferred the AI version 48 percent of the time -- even Apple's "Think Different" slogan fell to the AI alternative. Also in this AI-heavy monthly long-form episode:

• Newsrooms are adopting standards for using AI
• Google is pitching an AI news-writing tool to major media outlets
• How should newsrooms be thinking about AI?
• A study of more than 5,000 ChatGPT conversations reveals how people are using the chatbot
• Maybe AI isn't coming for everyone's job after all
• An NFT platform has launched a limited-edition print magazine
• What's behind Twitter's poop emoji PR?
• In his tech report, Dan York introduces himself to Threads, Mastodon analytics are now available, Vox is ending its CMS, a look at Llam2, worries about AI cluttering the web with useless content, and a new podcast to try.

Continue Reading →

The post FIR #344: Sloganeering with AI appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this modern era where AI is changing the dynamics of every industry, questions inevitably arise about its efficacy and implications. Will AI replace communicators? Is it ethical to use AI with or without disclosure? Besides writing, how can communicators best use AI? What risks should we be aware of? What role can we play in helping introduce AI throughout our organizations to ensure it is used to its best advantage?

An international panel of IABC Fellows got together on June 20 to discuss AI, exploring the risks and benefits, offering guidance to communications professionals seeking to navigate this new landscape. The panel explored the exciting and rapidly evolving intersection of AI and communication, examining how artificial intelligence can shoulder much of the mundane load, freeing up communicators to focus on creative, strategic, and value-added work. The panel also delved into optimal ways for professionals to harness the power of AI in their communication strategies while helping the rest of the organization adopt AI to its greatest potential.
Continue Reading →

The post Circle of Fellows #94: Staying Ahead of the AI Curve appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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A new activist tactic is targeting individual businesses, concentrating all of the movement's energy and resources on forcing that one business to bend to the group's will. These instances are usually based on business practices that reflect the company's values, such as support for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives. How the business responds has a direct impact on the experiences of employees who interact with customers on a day-to-day basis, especially in retail and other customer-facing sectors. How communicators can help both the company and employees weather these storms is the focus of this short midweek FIR episode.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #343: Employees Caught in Activism’s Crossfire appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Meta's Threads, a new micro-blogging platform, is now available to anyone with an Instagram account, and there has been no shortage of people willing to give it a try. Only about two weeks old, Threads is already the subject of speculation about its future. In the meantime, brands and journalists are jumping onto the platform. Should your company or brand be there, too? Neville and Shel share their thoughts in this short midweek "For Immediate Release" episode.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #342: Pulling at Threads’ Seams appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Robert L. Dilenschneider has learned a lot about power and influence during his storied career. The former president and CEO of global PR firm Hill & Knowlton has led his own agency, The Dilenschneider Group, since 1991. The author of several books, Bob is about to launch his latest work, "The Ultimate Guide to Power and Influence: Everything You Need to Know," which hits bookstores on July 25.

In this FIR Interview, co-host Shel Holtz speaks with Bob about the nature of power and influence and the various ways to acquire and use it. Of particular interest is Bob's perspective on what power and influence are: tools that help you get things done.
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The post FIR Interview: Bob Dilenschneider on Power and Influence appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In the world of influencers, brands pay for influencers to say what the brands want them to say. In the case of Shein, what they wanted them to say appears to be at odds with the facts. In this case, the blowback targeted the influencers more than the brand, calling attention to the gloss the company wanted to put on its tarnished reputation. Will every follower of an influencer know every time they're hearing a manipulated message? We explore the Shein story and its implications in this short mid-week episode.
Continue Reading →

The post FIR #341: Influencers Amuck appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this modern era where AI is changing the dynamics of every industry, questions inevitably arise about its efficacy and implications. Will AI replace communicators? Is it ethical to use AI with or without disclosure? Besides writing, how can communicators best use AI? What risks should we be aware of? What role can we play in helping introduce AI throughout our organizations to ensure it is used to its best advantage?

Join us at 5 p.m. ET on Thursday, July 20, as a panel of IABC Fellows tackles these and other complex issues. The session will explore the risks and benefits, aiming to provide clear guidance to communications professionals seeking to navigate this new landscape. The panel aims to delve into the exciting and rapidly evolving intersection of AI and communication, examining how artificial intelligence can shoulder much of the mundane load, freeing up communicators to focus on creative, strategic, and value-added work. The panel will explore optimal ways for professionals to harness the power of AI in their communication strategies while helping the rest of the organization adopt AI to its greatest potential.
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All the signs are there, according to observers. As one tech publication put it, "Google is trying to kill the 10 blue links. Twitter is being abandoned to bots and blue ticks. There’s the junkification of Amazon and the enshittification of TikTok. Layoffs are gutting online media. A job posting looking for an 'AI editor' expects 'output of 200 to 250 articles per week.' ChatGPT is being used to generate whole spam sites. Etsy is flooded with 'AI-generated junk.' Chatbots cite one another in a misinformation ouroboros. LinkedIn is using AI to stimulate tired users. Snapchat and Instagram hope bots will talk to you when your friends don’t. Redditors are staging blackouts. Stack Overflow mods are on strike. The Internet Archive is fighting off data scrapers, and 'AI is tearing Wikipedia apart.'"

Is the worst-case scenario inevitable? Neville and Shel explore the possibilities in this short mid-week episode.
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The post FIR #340: Will AI Destroy the Web? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Is it even worth doing client satisfcation surveys? That's the question that Chip and Gini explore in this week's episode.
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The post ALP 197: Are client satisfaction surveys worthwhile for agencies? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini talk about the perils of transactional relationships with your agency's clients along with how to become more collaborative to produce better results.
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The post ALP 196: Be more collaborative and less transactional with your agency’s clients appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The hype around the metaverse rises and falls, but Second Life is 20 years old and continues to draw users and make money. Neville and Shel explore the reasons Second Life enjoys its ongoing modest success in the June monthly long-form episode of "For Immediate Release." Also in this episode:

• The state of digital news raises concerns for the public's news literacy, how companies can get their news into the hands of stakeholders, and what "news" means to people today.
• The political assault on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) and Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) is producing polarization among employees and, in some companies, questionable decisions by leaders.
• Generative Artificial Intelligence (AI) will have an impact on every department in an organization. That makes it a key focus area for Chief People Officers.
• The merger of the PGA and the LIV golf tour caught many players by surprise. They should have been a top priority.
• The metaverse, contrary to popular opinion, is not dying while AI rises. In fact, AI is breathing new life into the metaverse.
• In his Tech Report, Dan York looks at the Jetpack AI Assistant for WordPress users, why thousands of subreddits are going dark on Reddit, and why we should pay attention to Canada's C-18 Online News Act.

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The post FIR #339: Still Virtual After All These Years appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Allan Schoenberg has spent much of his career as a communication leader in the financial services space, including a stint as Sr. VP and Global Head of Communications and Social Media for NASDAQ.  Allan, former co-host of the FIR Podcast Network's "FIR B2B," recently pivoted to become Chief Communication Officer at Vinson & Elkins, a New York-based law firm. In this FIR Interview, Allan discusses the move along with a culture audit he undertook at the firm. He also shares his views on the current state of Twitter (and its potential alternatives), Artificial Intelligence, and more.
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The post FIR Interview: Allan Schoenberg on His New Job, Twitter, AI, and More appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Public relations, both in academia and in practical application, has always been seen as a business practice. A new study produced by researchers from the Missouri School of Journalism and Penn State argues that community activism employs PR strategies and tactics. By recognizing community activism as a form of public relations, traditional PR professionals can incorporate some of the things it does better, including listening and taking a long view. Neville and Shel dive into the research in this short midweek episode.
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The post FIR #338: Adding Activism to PR appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini explore some of the things that PR and marketing agency owners focus on that probably aren't worth the time.
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The post ALP 195: Are you getting lost in the wrong stuff as an agency owner? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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IABC's Fellows welcomed members of the 2023 class during the World Conference in Toronto. Now, you will have the chance to meet these two dynamic communicators in a special episode of Circle of Fellows. Join host Shel Holtz, SCMP, ABC, and Neil Griffiths, chair of this year's Fellows Committee, for a conversation about our new Fellows' careers and their views on a wide-ranging array of communication-related topics. As always, you will be able to participate in the conversation by asking questions and sharing observations using YouTube's live chat feature. If you aren't able to join us for the live stream, you will be able to watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast.

The conversation begins at noon EDT on Thursday, June 22.
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The post Meet IABC’s Newest Fellows, Ginger Homan and Russell Grossman appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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A new survey finds that 90 percent of Americans don't trust influencers. What does this mean for the multi-million influencer industry? And where can brands turn now, since the old celebrity approach also doesn't carry much weight with consumers? Neville and Shel fill you in during this short midweek episode.
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The post FIR #337: Is It All Over for Influencers? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Chip and Gini get asked frequently about the state of the economy, the prospects of a recession, and what it means for agency owners. Not just now in 2023, but all the time. For years. But what is the state of things right now, in Q2 of 2023? The co-hosts explore what they’re hearing and... Continue Reading →

The post ALP 194: Is business slowing down for agencies in 2023? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Multiple studies confirm that Americans (like most of the rest of the world) have lost their trust in the media. But people get their news and information from somewhere -- or, as a Gallup/Knight Foundation study finds -- someone. "Public individuals" attract followers who turn to them for news and information based on a number of qualities, ranging from likability to subject matter expertise. Many of these public individuals host shows on mainstream media outlets. What does this mean for PR professionals looking for the right outlet to pitch? Neville and Shel break down the study in this short midweek FIR episode.
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The post FIR #336: Trust, Likability, and Confirmation Bias appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Multiple studies confirm that Americans (like most of the rest of the world) have lost their trust in the media. But people get their news and information from somewhere — or, as a Gallup/Knight Foundation study finds — someone. “Public individuals” attract followers who turn to them for news and information based on a number of qualities, ranging from likability to subject matter expertise. Many of these public individuals host shows on mainstream media outlets. What does this mean for PR professionals looking for the right outlet to pitch? Neville and Shel break down the study in this short midweek FIR episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 18.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Following Public Individuals for News in 7 Charts
• From Institutions to Individuals: How Americans are Now Looking to Public Figures for News and Information
• Turning to the Names We Know: Show Hosts and Journalists Top Individuals Followed for News
• Why Do Americans Turn to Individuals for News and Information? Personality, Trust, Perspectives Outside the Mainstream
• How Brits get their news

The post FIR #336: Trust, Likability, and Confirmation Bias appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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While many agencies believe that recurring revenue is the answer to all of their problems, the reality is that many agencies become quite successful by generating most of their income from individual projects.However, project work comes with a unique set of challenges, especially as it relates to dealing with clients who may end up inadvertently delaying completion of a project.The unpredictability of resourcing and revenue that these delays can create mean that agency owners need to find ways to account for that.Chip and Gini offer tips for improving cash flow, minimizing delays, and increasing your flexibility to handle the ebbs and flows common with project-focused agencies.[read the transcript]The post ALP 193: The challenges of project-focused agencies appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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BBC Verify is the venerable broadcaster’s latest effort to combat disinformation. With a staff of 60 journalists, Verify will provide details about the BBC’s own reporting and debunk disinformation it finds online (as it has already done with a photo purportedly of a Pentagon bombing that was, in fact, AI-generated). Are there lessons in the BBC’s approach that communicators can apply to their companies’ online activities? And will other media outlets follow suit, even as they slash budgets and newsrooms?

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 18.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• No, a viral photo does not show an explosion near the Pentagon
• BBC News puts transparency at its heart with BBC Verify
• Explaining the ‘how’ – the launch of BBC Verify
• How BBC Verify found and analysed Russia’s defences
• Marianna Spring on Twitter
• Satellite analysis by BBC Verify has uncovered some of Russia’s extensive defences as it prepares for a major Ukrainian counter-attack.
• BBC launches new 60-journalist team to counteract fake news

The post FIR #335: BBC Fires a Shot in the Disinformation War appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini review the recently released PR Council guidelines for the use of generative AI by agencies.

They explore which elements small agencies might consider adopting, as well as identifying others that may warrant more of a “wait and see” approach.

As the use of AI by communicators continues to expand, there will be many thorny issues to navigate. The PR Council guidelines provide a useful starting point for some of these discussions.[read the transcript]The post ALP 192: Setting AI policies for your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The number of change initiatives companies impose upon employees has skyrocketed from two per year in 2016 to 10 in 2022. That has left employees with a serious case of change fatigue, increasing the likelihood that these initiatives will fail. Shel and Neville look at data from Gartner and advice on how to better handle the surge of change programs, many of which companies are undertaking in response to challenges resulting from the COVID-19 pandemic. Also in this episode:

• Web3 has never captured the public’s imagination. The lingo of Web3 may be partly to blame.
• Over half of public relations practitioners lack confidence in their data literacy skills. That’s a problem when the simple but useless AVE metric is no longer the communicator’s fall-back metric.
• The pandemic influenced the ways companies communicated with employees, leading to a shift in the elements of communication that lift organizations’ internal brands.
• A quarter of Twitter users don’t expect they’ll be using the platform within a year.
• The uproar over perceived or real copyright violations inherent in the Large Language Models used by generative AI tools is poised to find its way into laws and regulations.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, June 18.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Web3 Needs Better Words
• Over half of PRs lack confidence in their data literacy skills
• How COVID-19 Influenced Internal Communication
• Study Shows that 25% of Twitter Users Don’t Expect to Still be Using Twitter in 12 Months
• Employees Are Losing Patience with Change Initiatives
• Why Harry Potter is the copyright timebomb under generative AI models

Links from Dan York’s Report

• AI in your pocket: ChatGPT officially comes to iPhone with new app
• Google I/O and the Coming AI Battles
• G7 Hiroshima Leaders’ Communiqué | The White House
• SCOTUS declines to address Section 230 protections and shields Twitter from liability for terror-related content
• TikTok Users Sue Montana, Calling State Ban Unconstitutional

The post FIR #334: Employees Really Do Hate Change appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Wellness has risen from an afterthought in companies to a prominent issue. Businesses increasingly recognize the impact of physical and mental health in the workplace. An opportunity loss of $20 million for every 10,000 workers can be attributed to low well-being and its negative impact on performance. This amounts to a staggering global cost of up to $322 billion in employee turnover and diminished productivity as a result of burnout caused by low well-being. On the other hand, effective wellness programs leave employees seven times as likely to strongly agree that they have meaningful connections or a best friend at work, a key indicator of engagement. Mental wellness is also getting more attention as companies see the consequences of depression, stress, anxiety, and other symptoms in the workplace. Only 57 percent of employees who report moderate depression and 40 percent of those who report severe depression receive treatment to control depression symptoms. Even when programs are available, employees don’t avail themselves of them. Only about 3.5 percent of employees across the U.S. have taken advantage of an Employee Assistance Program (EAP) to which they have access.

Clearly, there is plenty in the wellness space for internal communicators to address, both in terms of raising awareness and moving the culture among employees as well as counseling leaders on the actions they should take through their own messages and the degree of support they offer for wellness programs.

On Thursday, May 18, four IABC Fellows gathered to discuss workplace wellness.

Panel

Jane Mitchell’s career began at the BBC in London on live TV programs. She moved on to producing award-winning films and videos for public and private sector organizations and developed groundbreaking employee engagement programs. Since 2006 when she formed her own consultancy, she now guides organizations, (some of which have experienced cultural trauma), with embedding values and ethics through understanding culture and leadership and their link to high-performing sustainable organizations. She has worked with Top 100 companies across the world, is a regular conference speaker and writer, and is a Director of two highly successful UK-based agencies. Jane has been a member of IABC since 2008 and has had the privilege of serving on local, regional, and International IABC Boards.

Leticia Narváez, ABC, is CEO and Founding Partner of Narváez Group, a consulting firm focused on Strategic Communication, Employee Engagement, Corporate Reputation, Social Responsibility and Communication Training based in Mexico City. A 30 years experienced professional, she held management top level positions at Sanofi, Merck, American Express and Ford Motor Co. among others. She builds communication bridges with the utmost excellence standards. During her career path, she has been at the forefront of divestitures, mergers and acquisitions, diversity leadership, issues and crisis management, team and leadership development, strategic planning and senior executive consulting. She has been a speaker at international forums, is co-author of several books and manuals on business communications and has written a large number of articles on the subject. Leticia has a Bachelor’s Degree in Communications and Public Relations from the Latinoamericana University, a Master Degree on Digital Communications from Cantabria University and a Postgraduate Diploma on Top Business Administration at the Panamerican Institute of Top Business Administration – IPADE-.

Angela Sinickas is the founder of Sinickas Communications, which has worked with companies, organizations, and governments in 32 countries on six continents. Her clients include 25% of the Forbes Top 100 largest global companies. Before starting her own consulting firm, she held positions from editor to vice president in for-profit and government organizations and worked as a senior consultant and practice leader at Hewitt and Mercer. She is the author of a manual, How to Measure Your Communication Programs (now in its third edition), and chapters in several books. Her 150+ articles in professional journals can be found on her website, www.sinicom.com. Her work has been recognized with 21 international-level Gold Quill Awards from IABC, plus her firm was named IABC Boutique Agency of the Year in 2015. She holds a BS degree in Journalism from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and an MS in Leadership from Northeastern University.

Stacy L. Wilson, ABC helps clients get more ROI from their technology investment; specifically leveraging technology for collaboration and communication. She focuses on the people and process sides of intranets and digital workplace, including strategy, governance, usability, content, and adoption. She works for global, Fortune 1000 clients, particularly those with a lot of employees who don’t sit in front of computers; for example, industries such as mining, oil & gas, healthcare, utilities, manufacturing, etc. She is an international speaker and enthusiast of bluegrass music, hiking, food, and whiskey.

The post Circle of Fellows #92: Communicating Wellness in the Workplace appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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“Disclosure and transparency are the currency of the internet,” wrote journalist and author Evan Osnos. That has proven to be true time and again. It undoubtedly will be true of using generative AI in marketing and communication. But will it be true every time we use AI? Even when we’re just using it as a tool, like a calculator? The challenge of establishing guidelines for disclosing the use of AI is the subject of this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• How media agencies are tightening brand safety and transparency measures as influencers tap AI

The post FIR #333: When to Disclose That You’ve Used AI appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode of Chats with Chip, Ryan Watson of Upsourced discusses the critical role that financial planning has in growing a successful agency.

Ryan explains that the fundamentals that you need to follow will help you in good times, as well as in any possible recession that may (or may not) be on the horizon. He notes that the impact in an economic downturn varies from one agency to the next, so your best bet is to prepare for any outcome.

Chip and Ryan also talk about the difference between tax accounting and business financial planning. They explore some of the things that you should be focused on (as well as a few things that may be misleading indicators of true success).[read the transcript]The post CWC 90: Building a strong financial foundation for your agency (featuring Ryan Watson) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Agency owners often micromanage their employees without even realizing it. They think that they are merely seeking better results, when in fact, they are slowing things down and demoralizing their teams.

When Chip and Gini speak with many owners, they express frustration with how many hours they work and how they can’t spend enough time on building the business because they are so deeply in the weeds.

The reality is that leaders need to trust their team members to do a good job — and then support them in that effort. Constant editing and fussing over the details adds little value.

Chip and Gini offer tips on how to break the cycle of micromanagement and empower your team to produce the best results possible.[read the transcript]The post ALP 191: Micromanage your way to agency failure appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode of Chats with Chip, Simon Erskine Locke of CommunicationsMatch joins for a discussion about agencies and RFPs.

Regular listeners know that Chip doesn’t disguise how much he despises the RFP process that many agencies subject themselves to. He has argued that agency leaders should simply hit the delete key whenever an RFP shows up in their inbox.

Simon takes a more nuanced view of RFPs and explains how they can be done better. He also suggests that if an agency does its due diligence before responding, they might be able to more strategically evaluate each opportunity instead of blindly hitting delete.[read the transcript]The post CWC 89: Should Chip stop blindly hating RFPs for agencies? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The volunteer editors responsible for Wikipedia content are divided over the role ChatGPT and other generative AI writing tools can or should play in the creation of articles for the online encyclopedia. Their struggle is most likely being repeated in businesses around the globe.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• AI Is Tearing Wikipedia Apart

The post FIR #332: Wikipedia Editors in Tug-of-War Over AI-Authored Articles appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this episode, Chip and Gini offer up some tough love for many agency owners who aren’t compensating themselves fairly.

The co-hosts discuss the need for two income streams: compensation for work provided to the agency and profit-taking as a reward for entrepreneurial risk.

They talk about the different ways that owners can take compensation, the value of getting professional advice, and specific areas where they have seen owners miss opportunities.[read the transcript]The post ALP 190: An honest conversation about agency owner compensation appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Wellness has risen from an afterthought in companies to a prominent issue. Businesses increasingly recognize the impact of physical and mental health in the workplace. An opportunity loss of $20 million for every 10,000 workers can be attributed to low well-being and its negative impact on performance. This amounts to a staggering global cost of up to $322 billion in employee turnover and diminished productivity as a result of burnout caused by low well-being. On the other hand, effective wellness programs leave employees seven times as likely to strongly agree that they have meaningful connections or a best friend at work, a key indicator of engagement. Mental wellness is also getting more attention as companies see the consequences of depression, stress, anxiety, and other symptoms in the workplace. Only 57 percent of employees who report moderate depression and 40 percent of those who report severe depression receive treatment to control depression symptoms. Even when programs are available, employees don’t avail themselves of them. Only about 3.5 percent of employees across the U.S. have taken advantage of an Employee Assistance Program (EAP) to which they have access.

Clearly, there is plenty in the wellness space for internal communicators to address, both in terms of raising awareness and moving the culture among employees as well as counseling leaders on the actions they should take through their own messages and the degree of support they offer for wellness programs.

At noon EDT on Thursday, May 18, four IABC Fellows will discuss workplace wellness. Join moderator Shel Holtz, SCMP, for this important conversation and contribute your own questions, experiences, and observations using the YouTube Live chat feature. The session will be available later as both as video replay and a Circle of Fellows podcast episode.

Panel

Jane Mitchell’s career began at the BBC in London on live TV programs. She moved on to producing award-winning films and videos for public and private sector organizations and developed groundbreaking employee engagement programs. Since 2006 when she formed her own consultancy, she now guides organizations, (some of which have experienced cultural trauma), with embedding values and ethics through understanding culture and leadership and their link to high-performing sustainable organizations. She has worked with Top 100 companies across the world, is a regular conference speaker and writer, and is a Director of two highly successful UK-based agencies. Jane has been a member of IABC since 2008 and has had the privilege of serving on local, regional, and International IABC Boards. She is currently Chair of the 2021 World Conference and was awarded the honor of IABC Fellow in March.

Leticia Narváez, ABC, is CEO and Founding Partner of Narváez Group, a consulting firm focused on Strategic Communication, Employee Engagement, Corporate Reputation, Social Responsibility and Communication Training based in Mexico City. A 30 years experienced professional, she held management top level positions at Sanofi, Merck, American Express and Ford Motor Co. among others. She builds communication bridges with the utmost excellence standards. During her career path, she has been at the forefront of divestitures, mergers and acquisitions, diversity leadership, issues and crisis management, team and leadership development, strategic planning and senior executive consulting. She has been a speaker at international forums, is co-author of several books and manuals on business communications and has written a large number of articles on the subject. Leticia has a Bachelor’s Degree in Communications and Public Relations from the Latinoamericana University, a Master Degree on Digital Communications from Cantabria University and a Postgraduate Diploma on Top Business Administration at the Panamerican Institute of Top Business Administration – IPADE-.

Angela Sinickas is the founder of Sinickas Communications, which has worked with companies, organizations, and governments in 32 countries on six continents. Her clients include 25% of the Forbes Top 100 largest global companies. Before starting her own consulting firm, she held positions from editor to vice president in for-profit and government organizations and worked as a senior consultant and practice leader at Hewitt and Mercer. She is the author of a manual, How to Measure Your Communication Programs (now in its third edition), and chapters in several books. Her 150+ articles in professional journals can be found on her website, www.sinicom.com. Her work has been recognized with 21 international-level Gold Quill Awards from IABC, plus her firm was named IABC Boutique Agency of the Year in 2015. She holds a BS degree in Journalism from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and an MS in Leadership from Northeastern University.

Stacy L. Wilson, ABC helps clients get more ROI from their technology investment; specifically leveraging technology for collaboration and communication. She focuses on the people and process sides of intranets and digital workplace, including strategy, governance, usability, content, and adoption. She works for global, Fortune 1000 clients, particularly those with a lot of employees who don’t sit in front of computers; for example, industries such as mining, oil & gas, healthcare, utilities, manufacturing, etc. She is an international speaker and enthusiast of bluegrass music, hiking, food, and whiskey.

The post Communicating Well-Being in the Workplace: Next Circle of Fellows appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The recent releases of Agent-GPT, AutoGPT, and BabyGPT have taken ChatGPT to a new level. Rather than simply responding to user prompts, these tools identify a series of tasks that must be completed to achieve a goal and then completes them autonomously. It’s still early days, but the potential is huge. So is the growing risk of bad actors using these tools for nefarious purposes. We discuss these recent developments in this short mid-week episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Hype grows over “autonomous” AI agents that loop GPT-4 outputs
• AutoGPT: How To Make AI Do Everything For You
• What is Auto-GPT And Is Now The Time To Freak Out About AI?
• What is Auto-GPT and why does it matter?
• Auto-GPT and BabyAGI: How ‘autonomous agents’ are bringing generative AI to the masses
• A profile of and interview with deep learning pioneer Geoffrey Hinton, who shares why he now thinks neural networks represent a “better form of intelligence”
• AI ‘godfather’ Geoffrey Hinton warns of dangers as he quits Google
• There’s an AI for That

The post FIR #331: AI Completes Tasks and Raises Fears appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Adam Graham, Founder of both Gray Matters and BD Matters, brings a wealth of agency business development expertise to the table in this episode of Chats with Chip.

When agency owners focus on sales, it tends to be because they are looking to quickly grow or rapidly replace lost revenue. Adam explains the importance of having a plan and a process in place instead of launching haphazardly into an outreach program.

Chip and Adam also discuss the importance of proper positioning for the agency and why having a clear focus and specialization makes sales business development much easier.

Finally, the pair talk about how small agency owners can get help with growing the business without removing themselves completely from the responsibility of business development.[read the transcript]The post CWC 88: Jumpstarting your agency’s business development (featuring Adam Graham) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Most public relations agencies hire employees with a mix of experience. Some already have a proven track record in generating media coverage, while others have only just begun to learn the ropes.

In this episode, Chip and Gini explore how agency leaders can help their team members to develop the skills and knowledge needed to produce excellent results for clients.

The key is understanding the needs and learning styles of each individual so that the appropriate type and level of support can be provided.[read the transcript]The post ALP 189: Helping agency employees to improve their PR skills appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Jeremiah Owyang has a habit. Whenever a new digital technology emerges that seems to be poised to disrupt business and society, Jeremiah dives in, talking to everyone he can, attending conferences, meetings, and talks, and undertaking a deep dive into every research resource available. In his eighth FIR interview, Jeremiah shares his perspectives on Artificial Intelligence (AI), which has been around for some time but has only recently taken the world by storm with the release of ChatGPT.

About Our Conversation Partner:

Jeremiah Owyang is well recognized by both the tech industry and the media for his grounded approach to deriving insights through rigorous research. From corporate innovation to autonomous technology or modern well-being, he views every aspect of emerging technologies through the lens of growth, opportunity, and constantly shifting consumer behaviors and expectations. Forever at the forefront, he identifies trends and advises major companies to adapt their business models to better connect with customers. His clients include Adobe, Cisco, Wells Fargo, Nestle, Esurance, Johnson & Johnson, Visa, and Colgate, among others.

An acknowledged thought leader and widely read publisher, Owyang has appeared in such publications as The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, USA Today, and Fast Company. He also publishes numerous research reports, playbooks, and frameworks to help businesses navigate change, improve customer experiences and identify trends before they happen.

Owyang’s career took shape as an analyst with Forrester Research, advising on social strategy for the interactive marketer. He was a Founding Partner and Research Director at Altimeter Group, specializing in customer strategy and emerging technologies. He formed Catalyst Companies in 2013 to focus on the emerging collaborative economy and the maker movement.

Owyang is recognized as the definitive authority on corporate innovation programs, ready to translate the next wave of powerful technologies and transform the way you do business.

A popular speaker and presenter at conferences and events around the world, from global conferences, corporate kickoffs, or on a TED stage, Jeremiah is ready to translate the next wave of powerful technologies and transform the way you do business.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Model the Future: AI Classification Framework (March 15, 2023, blog post by Jeremiah Owyang)
• Jeremiah’s LinkedIn Profile

The post FIR Interview: Jeremiah Owyang on the Artificial Intelligence Marketplace appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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If your generative AI prompts aren’t producing exactly what you want, there’s help — for a fee. You can buy pre-written prompts from prompt marketplaces like PromptBase and Prompt Attack or hire a prompt engineer through services like Fiverr. We dig into this newly-emergent cottage industry in this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Inside the Lucrative New Business of Selling AI Prompts
• How to Make Money Selling Prompts for AI Art Generators – Metaroids
• How to Buy and Sell AI Prompts
• The wild world of PromptBase, the eBay for generative AI prompts
• Best Marketplaces to Make Money by Selling Your AI Prompts
• The 7 Best Ai Prompt Marketplaces for selling Midjourney or ChatGPT prompts
• Midjourney Make Money With AI Selling Prompts (Udemy course)

The post FIR #330: Help Wanted. Prompt Engineer. appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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It’s no secret that Chip rants about the importance of weekly 1:1 meetings between agency managers and their direct reports.

So he and GIni dedicated this episode entirely to the topic — including why they matter and how to run them correctly.

This isn’t simply a checkbox that you need to tick off, it needs to become a fundamental part of the culture of your agency if you want to see the best performance from your team and the best results for your clients (and your business).[read the transcript]The post ALP 188: Weekly 1:1 meetings make a big difference for your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Imagine posting to your favorite social network, the one you want your brand to be associated with, and having it appear for all of your followers in the social networks of their choice. It could be possible if the ActivityPub standard continues to spread the way it has been lately. And that could be an important evolution given the meltdown that Twitter is undergoing. Those are just two of the stories in the April long-form edition of the “For Immediate Release” podcast. Also in this episode…

• The “have a go” era of podcasting could be coming to an end, depending on how you interpret the data
• LinkedIn is going through some changes that not everyone likes
• A coalition of 500-plus ad agencies is taking a stand against fossil fuels
• A song reportedly produced using AI imitated the voices of some A-list artists, and the music industry isn’t happy
• Dan York reports on the demise of Spotify Live, some Twitter news, Wikipedia’s one-minute video, and more

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• No Brainer – An AI Podcast for Marketers
• Podcasts: Is the ‘have-a-go’ podcaster era coming to an end?
• Podcasts as a Source of News and Information
• 41+ Podcast Statistics For 2023 (Listeners & Market Size)
• Can ActivityPub save the internet?
• Making ActivityPub Your Social Media Hub for Mastodon and Other Decentralized Services
• Automattic acquires ActivityPub Plugin
• Tumblr to add support for ActivityPub, the social protocol powering Mastodon and other apps
• Decentralized Social Media Rises as Twitter Melts Down Mastodon is just the start—here comes the Fediverse
• A Creator of ActivityPub on What’s Next for the Fediverse
• How LinkedIn is changing and why some are not happy
• 21 LinkedIn Best Practices for Business Professionals to Follow for Success
• Aht, Aht—Don’t Do That! These Are The LinkedIn Etiquette Tips You Need For 2023
• Six kinds of LinkedIn messages you should never send
• The Future of Social Media Is a Lot Less Social
• Is Twitter finally dying?
• Twitter begins removing blue checkmarks from all legacy users
• Neville Hobson on Twitter
• In a campaign called #BlockTheBlue, some Twitter users, including popular ones like @dril, are asking people to block anyone who subscribes to Twitter Blue
• About profile labels and checkmarks on Twitter
• More newsrooms bail on Twitter as Musk meddles with account labels
• NYT editor says company won’t leave Twitter
• WBUR backs NPR by leaving Twitter after Musk’s ‘state-affiliated’ labeling
• CBC ‘pausing’ Twitter after ‘government-funded media’ label
• Sweden’s Public Radio Ceases Activities on Twitter
• What Is Hive Social? The Twitter Alternative You Should Try
• Why can’t Twitter and TikTok be easily replaced? Something called ‘network effects’
• Why Are So Many Twitter Alternatives Struggling to Succeed?
• Here’s a first look at Bluesky, the decentralized social network from Twitter’s cofounder
• Post, a publisher-focused Twitter alternative, launches to public
• Substack launches its Twitter-like Notes just days after Twitter throttled Substack links
• A new Twitter alternative is trying to lure users about to lose their old checkmark
• Over 500 agencies have now pledged to cut ties with world’s biggest polluters
• AI song sounds an alarm in music
• An A.I. Hit of Fake ‘Drake’ and ‘The Weeknd’ Rattles the Music World
• The Music Business Will Never Learn

Links from Dan York’s Report

• Another social audio company bites the dust – Spotify shuts down Spotify Live
• The legacy blue checkmarks are finally going… unless of course Elon pays for them to keep the illusion that celebrities pay for Twitter Blue
• Twitter shuts down the automation that enabled the National Weather Service and many other public service accounts
• Wikimedia has a sound logo
• Wikipedia’s one-minute videos
• Microsoft drops Twitter from its advertising platform

The post FIR #329: Post Once, Socialize Everywhere appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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There has been no shortage of crises in the business world in recent months. From the failure of FTX and Silicon Valley Bank to the Norfolk Southern train derailment and fans revolting against Ticketmaster, there is more than enough fodder for a robust discussion about how companies can prepare for crises while establishing their reputations and communicate effectively when a crisis strikes.

The recording of the April 20, 2023, live stream features a great hour-long conversation on various dimensions of crisis communication, from issues identification and the role of CEOs during a crisis to social media and disinformation challenges.

Note, the next Circle of Fellows is set for noon ET on Thursday, May 18, with a look at Employee Well-Being and the Role of Communications. Details will be posted at the beginning of May.

About the Panel

Alice Brink is an internationally recognized communications consultant. Her firm, A Brink & Co., works with businesses and non-profits to clarify their messages and communicate them in ways that change people’s minds. Her clients have included Shell Oil Company, Sysco Foods, and Noble Energy. Prior to launching A Brink & Co. in Houston in 2004, Alice honed her craft both in corporate settings (including The Coca-Cola Company, Conoco, and First Interstate Bank) and in one of Texas’ largest public relations firms, where she led the agency’s energy and financial practices. Alice has been active in IABC for more than 30 years, including serving as chapter president, district director, and Gold Quill chair. She is the vice-chair of the IABC Academy.

John G. Clemons, ABC, APR, IABC Fellow, an independent communications consultant based in North Carolina, has held senior executive and consultant roles over the course of his career in corporate and organizational communications. He has special expertise in providing strategic counsel and support for top executives and corporate offices of Fortune 500 companies. John has served as chair of IABC and holds accreditations from both IABC and PRSA. John has worked with Walmart, Raytheon, and Marriott (among others).

George McGrath is founder and managing principal of McGrath Business Communications, which helps clients build winning corporate reputations, promote their products and services, and advance their views on key issues. George brings more than 25 years in PR and public affairs to his firm. Over the course of his career, he has held senior management positions at leading strategic communications and integrated marketing agencies including Hill and Knowlton, Carl Byoir & Associates, and Brouillard Communications.

Caroline Sapriel, a member of the 2021 class of Fellows participating in her first Circle, is a seasoned international crisis resilience professional with over 25 years experience in risk, crisis, and business continuity management; she has extensive expertise in crisis communication. Caroline is an accomplished coach, trainer and facilitator in my field and is acknowledged industry wide for her ability to provide customized, results-driven counsel at the highest level of organizations across industry sectors globally.

The post Circle of Fellows #91: Crisis Communication appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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So much of our time as communicators is spent navigating uncharted territory – handling crises, adapting to emerging technology, etc. – that it’s easy to forget to take time to reflect.

We recently received a great reminder to do just that from our friend and former Sears colleague, Barbara Rozgonyi. A pioneer of digital communications and the leader of CoryWest Media, Barbara joined us to discuss the current popularity of retro culture and how lessons from the past can help shape how we work moving forward.

“It’s just really gives you a feeling that what was cool is still cool,” Barbara said. “I was looking at some of the projects we worked on together – and the groundwork that we laid back then may seem nostalgic, but it’s super relevant for today.”

Barbara, Sharon and I had a fun look back at some of the work we took on together and how, as much as things may change, they stay the same. (It may not always feel this way, but the 90’s weren’t that long ago.)

Among the topics discussed:

• “I am Sears,” a global initiative highlighting Sears employees
• The importance of establishing leaders as relatable and approachable
• Building cross-functional relationships
• Helping employees feel connected in different settings

For more from Barbara:

• Listen to her podcast, Growing Social
• Visit her website at https://www.barbararozgonyi.com/
• Find her on LinkedIn
• Visit CoryWest Media

The post EPISODE #70: WHAT’S OLD IS NEW AGAIN WITH BARBARA ROZGONYI appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Traditional wallets are stuffed full of cash, credit cards, debit cards, and identification. Crypto wallets have only held public and private keys needed to trade cryptocurrencies. Users are increasingly filling their crypto wallets with NFTs and other digital assets. It won’t be long before digital wallets hold crypto, NFTs, digital assets, and your credit cards and identity verification. The only physical wallets you’ll see will be in museums. Why communicators and their clients/employers should care is the subject of this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Stop Calling it a Wallet
• The Crypto Wallet: Unlocking Digital Identity
• Microsoft to integrate crypto wallet into browser
• Elizabeth Warren is pushing the Senate to ban your crypto wallet
• The Wallet Wars Are Not About Money, They Are About Identity
• Over a third of UK’s online transactions used digital wallets | Computer Weekly
• Playing With Crypto? You’ll Need a Wallet (or Several)

The post FIR #328: What’s In Your Crypto Wallet? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#753: Eliyahu Jian and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Create a more meaningful life through vital transformation. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Eliyahu Jian (https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliyahujian/), life and spiritual coach, motivational speaker, and advisor to people of all ages and backgrounds. He is co-founder of Vital Transformation, a non-profit organization to provide spiritual guidance to online members and students in LA, Miami and NYC. He authored the book, The Laughing Billionaire, on how to become rich and happy.

Eliyahu empowers people to be the best versions of themselves, create stronger relationships, achieve career success, and create healthier lifestyles by developing a spiritual connection. He has been transforming thousands of lives around the world for decades, including famous and influential people in the likes of Madonna, Blake Mallen, Demi Moore, and Marla Maples.

If you or someone in your network want more in your lives, consider reaching out to Eliyahu Jian by visiting his websites https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliyahujian/ and https://www.eliyahujian.com/.

Here are a couple of AHA messages from this episode:

• People wanting more should reach out to Eliyahu Jian. https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliyahujian/
• My role is to help unlock your potential and cultivate true happiness to become the best version of yourself. #PeopleWantMore https://www.eliyahujian.com/ @eliyahujianofficial/
• When people talk about success, you talk about what you want more from life. I can help you drive through success with the right foundational truth to go with. #PeopleWantMore https://www.eliyahujian.com/ @eliyahujianofficial/
• I can counsel you on how to scale your business and make more money while achieving success and deep fulfillment in all other areas of your life. #PeopleWantMore https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliyahujian/
• With my rabbinical education and background in Kabbalah, I can show you how to find happiness, growth and success in building a more enriched spiritual life. #PeopleWantMore https://www.eliyahujian.com/ @eliyahujianofficial/

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #753: Eliyahu Jian w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#752: Dr. Dennis Reina and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Transform your workplace through trust. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Dr. Dennis Reina (linkedin.com/in/dennisreina), internationally sought-after-trust-building consultant, speaker, executive coach, award-winning and bestselling author, and co-founder of Reina Trust Building.

Dr. Reina helps develop teams and foster leadership effectiveness through building and sustaining trust that produces business results. He and his life partner Dr. Michelle Reina are both PhDs whose work focuses on the comprehensive study of trust building – defining it with measurable benchmarks and applying that knowledge to organizations so people and workplaces can thrive.

If you’re feeling the importance of trust as a leader in what you do, consider reaching out to Dr. Dennis Reina by visiting his LinkedIn page https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisreina/ or send an email at dsreina@reinatrustbuilding.com.

Here are a couple of AHA messages from this episode:

• Leaders focused on trust should reach out to Dr. Dennis Reina. https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisreina/
• My role is to help you understand behaviors that build and break trust in your organization to address any trust-related issues that you need to act on. #TrustBuilding https://reinatrustbuilding.com/ @DrDennisReina
• I can show you how to develop a common language and a shared understanding on trust so you can begin confident leadership and foster a stronger team. #TrustBuilding https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisreina/
• With my guidance, I can teach you how to create better workplace connections and have your people deeply engaged and collaborative in your work. #TrustBuilding https://reinatrustbuilding.com/ @DrDennisReina
• I can provide your organization with pieces of trust-building information and activities you can do regularly with statistically valid and reliable trust measurements. #TrustBuilding https://reinatrustbuilding.com/ @DrDennisReina

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #752: Dr. Dennis Reina w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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During the pandemic-related lockdown, with everyone but essential workers working from home, companies had little choice but to inform employees that their employment was being terminated using Zoom, Teams, or other digital channels. Now that people are back in the office, full-time or under a hybrid model, many companies have retained the practice. Some have asked all employees — even those working in the office — to stay home during a layoff so those who are being terminated can get the news remotely. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel discuss whether this approach is here for good and, if it is, whether there are implications for companies engaging in the practice.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Layoffs via Zoom, once novel, will outlast the pandemic
• Work From the Office, Get Laid Off at Home
• Layoffs over Zoom? McDonald’s takes a big risk with its reorganization

The post FIR #327: Laid Off In The Comfort Of Your Own Home appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Another day, another rant from Chip and Gini. This time they have references and case studies on their minds.

The co-hosts come down firmly against spending time developing and publishing case studies, explaining that agencies are better off demonstrating expertise in conversations with prospects by tying past experiences to current challenges.

When it comes to references, both Chip and Gini have regularly provided them in the past. However, they both question the value of them — as well as the burden it places on those who agree to serve as references.[read the transcript]The post ALP 187: References and case studies for your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Can the metaverse survive? Is this the Metaverse winter? Is the metaverse dead? Headlines like these appear across media as attention — and investment dollars — shift from the metaverse to Artificial Intelligence. Is the metaverse really destined for the trash heap of tech history? Neville and Shel take issue with all the doom and gloom in this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• The Metaverse Is Quickly Turning Into the Meh-taverse
• Is The Death Of The Metaverse Exaggerated?
• Rumors of the metaverse’s death have been greatly exaggerated
• No, the metaverse is not dead – it’s inevitable
• ‘The metaverse is dead; long live the metaverse’: emerging tech’s table of elements
• Three challenges the metaverse will need to overcome
• Metaverse: ‘Assuming you need a VR headset is just repeating Meta’s assumptions,’ author says
• How Epic is “doubling down” on its vision for the metaverse
• The Internet Is Ruined. The Metaverse Can Still Be Saved
• Over 7,000 Players Successfully Converged in Yuga Labs’ Otherside Metaverse ‘Second Trip’
• Decentraland Metaverse Fashion Week attendance plummets 76% amid ‘worrisome’ trading volume
• The emergent industrial metaverse
• Gartner Hype Cycle for Emerging Tech. Metaverse: 10 years to get to the Plateau
• What is New in the 2022 Gartner Hype Cycle for Emerging Technologies
• FIR #273: What Is The Metaverse? It’s A Network – FIR Podcast Network

The post FIR #326: The (Metaverse) Winter of Our Discontent appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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While journalists are sick of spray-and-pray pitches and press releases, they are equally heartened to see pitches that are tailored to their interests. As Artificial Intelligence (AI) has gained prominence since the November 2022 public release of ChatGPT, more public relations practitioners may be open to the idea of using AI to help identify the right journalists for their stories and craft pitches that will be more likely to appeal to them.

In this FIR Interview, Neville Hobson and Shel Holtz spoke with Aaron Kwittken, founder and CEO of PRophet, which is billed as “the only generative and predictive PR platform.” Once you have created an initial pitch, PRophet evaluates it, predicts media interest, and then helps draft personalized pitch copy to interested journalists.

About our conversation partner

Aaron Kwittken is founder and CEO of PRophet (prprophet.ai), the first-ever generative and predictive AI SaaS platform designed by and for the PR community. The platform uses AI to help modern PR professionals become more performative, productive, and predictive by generating, analyzing, and testing content that predicts earned media interest and sentiment. Aaron is also CEO of the Comms Tech Unit for the Stagwell Marketing Cloud, a suite of AI SaaS solutions for PR, social media, and content creators.

Aaron founded KWT Global in late 2005 (f/k/a Kwittken), a highly acclaimed global PR and brand strategy consultancy where he currently serves as Chairman. Stagwell acquired KWT Global in 2010.

A proud George Washington University alum, Aaron serves on GW’s School of Media and Public Affairs advisory board. He is the immediate past president of the Public Relations Society of New York, past president of the Americas for the International Communications Consultancy Organization, a former Board member of the PR Council, a former adjunct professor at New York University, and a former Forbes columnist. He currently writes a monthly column for The Drum and is the creator and host of the popular Brand on Purpose podcast that features companies and leaders that do well by doing good.

The post FIR Interview: PRophet Founder and CEO Aaron Kwittken appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The past few weeks have been full of headlines about bank runs, government takeovers, and financial pandemonium.

Even if you don’t use Silicon Valley Bank, Credit Suisse, or any of the other banks at the center of the news, there could be broader implications for banks and the overall economy.

How long it will last and what it all means remain open questions at the time of this episode, but Chip and Gini tackle what is known and how agencies should be thinking about what they should be doing.[read the transcript]The post ALP 186: The 2023 Banking Crisis and what it means for your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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There has been no shortage of crises in the business world in recent months. From the failure of FTX and Silicon Valley Bank to the Norfolk Southern train derailment and fans revolting against Ticketmaster, there is more than enough fodder for a robust discussion about how companies can prepare for crises while establishing their reputations, and communicate effectively when a crisis strikes.

Join moderator Shel Holtz, SCMP, ABC, IABC Fellow, and four seasoned communicators from the ranks of Fellows of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) for this hour-long conversation. Ask questions using YouTube Live’s chat feature, share your experiences, and comment on panelist observations. The live stream is set for noon EDT on Thursday, April 20.

About the Panel

Bob Berzok’s career in corporate communications spanned nearly 30 years, beginning as a publications manager at Uniroyal in 1969 and ending with his retirement from Union Carbide, where was director of Corporate Communications. His stint at Union Carbide included crisis communications leadership during the tragic Bophal chemical leak. Bob currently serves as secretary to the board of trustees of the Berkshire Theatre Group and as a board member of the Southwest Folklife Alliance. See Bob’s LinkedIn profile.

John G. Clemons, ABC, APR IABC Fellow, an independent communications consultant based in North Carolina, has held senior executive and consultant roles over the course of his career in corporate and organizational communications. He has special expertise in providing strategic counsel and support for top executives and corporate offices of Fortune 500 companies. John has served as chair of IABC and holds accreditations from both IABC and PRSA. John has worked with Walmart, Raytheon, and Marriott (among others).

George McGrath is founder and managing principal of McGrath Business Communications, which helps clients build winning corporate reputations, promote their products and services, and advance their views on key issues. George brings more than 25 years in PR and public affairs to his firm. Over the course of his career, he has held senior management positions at leading strategic communications and integrated marketing agencies including Hill and Knowlton, Carl Byoir & Associates, and Brouillard Communications.

Caroline Sapriel, a member of the 2021 class of Fellows participating in her first Circle, is a seasoned international crisis resilience professional with over 25 years experience in risk, crisis, and business continuity management; she has extensive expertise in crisis communication. Caroline is an accomplished coach, trainer and facilitator in my field and is acknowledged industry wide for her ability to provide customized, results-driven counsel at the highest level of organizations across industry sectors globally.

The post Circle of Fellows #91: Crisis Communication / Reputation Management appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Coca-Cola is one of the first companies to demonstrate a big commitment to generative AI, launching a contest that requires contestants to use both of OpenAI’s public tools: ChatGPT and DALL-E 2. Neville and Shel discuss the contest and some other brand experiments with generative AI tools in this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Coca-Cola invites fans to create AI art with its iconic imagery
• Coca-Cola brings Old Masters to life with AI
• Coke launches ‘Create Real Magic’ AI art contest using GPT-4 and Dall-E 2
• Genius Brands to Release First AI Generated Children’s Series Utilizing Artificial Intelligence Tools, Including OpenAI’s
• Nestlé Brand Is Latest to Venture Into Brave New World of AI Art Direction

The post FIR #325: Making AI-Generated Brand Magic appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Chip and Gini frequently hear from PR agency owners who want to move beyond just offering media relations services, but aren’t sure how best to do it.

They may love the idea of Gini’s PESO Model, but they also recognize that they probably can’t get there all at once.

In this episode, Chip and Gini share some of their tips for how to supplement media relations services and better position yourself for success in an environment in which media hits are harder to come by and clients expect a more integrated approach.[read the transcript]The post ALP 185: Expanding the service offerings of your media relations agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#750: Ian Baker and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Deliver outstanding results using the right tools in your business. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Ian Baker (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-baker-consultancy/), who is managing director and lead consultant of Ian Baker Consultancy Limited in the UK helping pharmaceutical organizations, medical investors, and SMEs among others. He is described as a natural influencer and relationship builder managing stakeholders at all levels globally.

Ian provides board level support to companies to assist in increasing quality for international businesses and his areas of expertise include strategic leadership and oversight, governance and process improvements, performance management, etc.

If you’re a business owner who’s not using the right tools in their tool shed, consider reaching out to Ian Baker by visiting his websites https://ianbakerconsultancy.co.uk/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-baker-consultancy/.

Here are a couple of AHA messages from this episode:

• Business owners not using the right tools in their tool shed should reach out to Ian Baker. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-baker-consultancy/
• My role is to remove the complexity that comes from growing and scaling your business by using the #RightTools. https://www.ianbakerconsultancy.co.uk/ @ijbconsultancy
• I can help you get clarity on what your business needs in terms of having and using the #RightTools. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-baker-consultancy/
• With my guidance, I can help you deliver success without that feeling of being overwhelmed. #RightTools https://www.ianbakerconsultancy.co.uk/ @ijbconsultancy
• I can counsel you on identifying the #RightTools and processes that produce high-performance yield in your business. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-baker-consultancy/

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #751: Ian Baker w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#750: Ida Abbott and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Preparing law firm executive teams for a new life after retirement. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Ida Abbott (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ida-abbott-9a0736/). She is the President of Ida Abbott Consulting. She is also a retirement specialist, legal talent strategist, speaker and an author.

Ida has been in the legal profession as a lawyer and consultant for more than four decades. She was one of the first people to specialize in lawyers’ professional development and retention and in advancing women into leadership. Her practice focuses on the power of mentoring relationships to guide, support and transform professional careers from the beginning of practice through retirement.

If you’re part of the executive team of a law firm and you want to have a dignified retirement process put in place, you should reach out to Ida Abbott by visiting her website at https://IdaAbbott.com/.

Here are a couple of AHA messages from this episode:

• Law firms wanting a dignified #Retirement process should reach out to Ida Abbott. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ida-abbott-9a0736/ @IdaOAbbott
• A lot of times there are issues around retirement that individuals face and firms aren’t really set up to deal with the emotional impact of #Retirement. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ida-abbott-9a0736/ @IdaOAbbott
• A career doesn’t end with #Retirement. That stage ends, but a new stage, a new career, a new world and life can be waiting for you. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ida-abbott-9a0736/ @IdaOAbbott
• As my clients get older, they started asking me what happens next and I thought, well, I better find out. #Retirement https://www.linkedin.com/in/ida-abbott-9a0736/ @IdaOAbbott
• There is a huge need for people to figure out what life could be like for them if they weren’t doing their work and weren’t coming to the office every day. #Retirement https://www.linkedin.com/in/ida-abbott-9a0736/ @IdaOAbbott

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #750: Ida Abbott w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Some PR pros think you should withhold original research, infographics, and other original content from a pitch to a journalist. Others think you can share it, but only under some circumstances. Still others think it best to give reporters what you have. Neville and Shel explore the various recommendations in this short, mid-week episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Link from this report:

• Should PR Pros Include Original Research In Pitches? 15 Comms Leaders Weigh In

The post FIR #324: Pitching Original Content appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Agency owners can be reluctant to involve employees or contractors in managing financial aspects of their businesses, especially anything that involves access to bank accounts or credit cards.

The concern is understandable, especially with recent examples of even large agency financial team members stealing from their firms.

Chip and Gini argue that the solution isn’t to hold on to these administrative tasks yourself, but rather to set up some reasonable controls coupled with periodic checks to confirm that everything is running properly.

The co-hosts share some specific examples of what they do or have seen others incorporate into their processes to help prevent your success from getting sidetracked by someone else’s dishonesty.[read the transcript]The post ALP 184: Keeping an eye on your agency’s finances appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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All generative Artificial Intelligence (AI) works fundamentally the same: AI neural networks learn from large training sets, gleaning patterns from the contents of those training sets in order to create original content based on their understanding of those patterns. When the companies behind those AI tools use content available on the web for training, do they need to ask permission from the content creators? You and I don’t. We can look at as much as we like and learn as much as we can. Is it the same for AI training sets or is it something else altogether, more akin to Napster using existing music without compensating the artists? Neville and Shel are on opposite sides of the debate. Also in this episode:

• The University of Iowa’s school of business has introduced a program to teach students how to tell stories. Storytelling is a crucial business skill that few businesses value. Communicators can help change that.
• A BBC football analyst — a contractor, not an employee — made some partisan remarks on a social network and was punished for violating standards by which employees are required to abide. It reopened a long-dormant discussion about social media policies.
• Did Silicon Valley Bank communicate too little, contributing to its failure? Or did it communicate too much? Is it possible the bank did both?
• ChatGPT and Midjourney have both been upgraded and the updates are substantial. Midjourney images are scarily photo-realistic and ChatGPT can now create a web page — Javascript included — based on a sketch of a wireframe. And that just scratches the surface of these updates.
• Microsoft has introduced Co-Pilot, the tool that will let users of its software tap into the power of Artificial Intelligence.

Dan York shares news from WordPress, WhatsApp, the world of ChatBots, and more in his Tech Report.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 22.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• U of Iowa business school students build storytelling skills
• Storytelling in Business: How to Create Engaging Stories | Darden Ideas to Action
• Storytelling Can Make or Break Your Leadership
• Business Storytelling Coaching and Consulting | Leadership Story Lab
• The Moth
• The Moth Podcast
• Ros Atkins on… Gary Lineker and the BBC
• Gary Lineker to return to Match of the Day as BBC announces review of social media rules – BBC News
• BBC to review social media rules for all staff in bid to resolve Gary Lineker row
• BBC to review social media guidelines after reinstating Gary Lineker – SportsPro
• Gary Lineker: BBC to review social media guidelines
• Guidance: Social media (from the BBC)
• Lineker-BBC row: survey shows how different outlets approach their staff’s social media presence
• Communication Choices Played a Major Role in Sinking Silicon Valley Bank — CommPRO
• SVB collapse was driven by ‘the first Twitter-fueled bank run’ | CNN Business
• A battle royal is brewing over copyright and AI
• Devalue or Defend: Generative AI, Artists, and the Law
• AI and Image Generation (Everything is a Remix Part 4)
• Rob Wolf on LinkedIn: #midjourney #ai
• AI-imager Midjourney v5 stuns with photorealistic images—and 5-fingered hands
• What to Know About ChatGPT-4 and How to Use It Right Now
• The makers of ChatGPT just released a new AI that can build websites, among other things
• GPT-4 Developer Livestream
• 5 jaw-dropping things GPT-4 can do that ChatGPT couldn’t | CNN Business
• Introducing Microsoft 365 Copilot – your copilot for work – The Official Microsoft Blog
• Microsoft details how AI will change its Office apps
• Microsoft announces Copilot: the AI-powered future of Office documents
• Microsoft adds AI tools to office apps like Outlook, Word
• Clippy evolved: New ‘Microsoft 365 Copilot’ uses AI for text creation | AppleInsider
• WalkingCat Twitter Thread with Copilot Video

Links from Dan York’s Report

• WordPress.com owner Automattic acquires an ActivityPub plugin so blogs can join the Fediverse | TechCrunch
• TechScape: Finally, the UK’s online safety bill gets its day in parliament – here’s what you need to know | Social media | The Guardian
• WhatsApp would not remove end-to-end encryption for UK law, says chief | WhatsApp | The Guardian
• Review of the Computer Misuse Act 1990: consultation and response to call for information
• Heritage Minister Pablo Rodriguez Contradicts His Own Bill and Department Officials in Effort to Defend Bill C-18
• Just Because ChatBots Can’t Think Doesn’t Mean They Can’t Lie | The Nation
• Yes, Section 230 Should Protect ChatGPT And Other Generative AI Tools | Techdirt

The post FIR #323: Outright Theft Or Fair Use? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Everybody hates change, right? You hear that all the time; it’s why organizational change is so hard. The fact is, people love change. They willingly and enthusiastically make changes all the time. They change their fashions, their hair styles, their cars, their homes, their vacation spots, their furniture, their spouses…

If change is hard in organizations, it’s not because people just don’t like change. If there is resistance to change, you have to know why. Even if resistance is not a major issue, managing change is still a complex challenge for communicators, who play multiple roles during a change initiative, creating alignment so employees and leaders are on the same page about where we are, where we’re going, why we’re going there, how we’ll get there, and so on. And that doesn’t even account for dealing with the ongoing, day-to-day change that is a fact of life in any business. (As they say, change is the only constant in life.)

On Thursday, March 16, 2023, four Fellows of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) discussed a wide variety of communication-related change issues.

About the Panel

Zora Artis is a leading Alignment, Brand and Communication Strategist. She works with executive and senior leaders to unlock the value in their people, brands, and organizations through alignment with purpose, promise and strategies, and effective communication. She has over three decades of experience in business, brand, marketing, communication, and advertising, working with government, private and non-profit sectors. This includes roles as Group Account Director, Strategy Director, and CEO of integrated marcomms and advertising firms. She now runs her own management consulting practice bringing together strategic alignment, capability training, and brand and communications expertise. Zora holds a Master’s in Marketing and Commerce and is a trained facilitator in alignment, design thinking, and business model generation.

An IABC Fellow and a Fellow of the Australian Marketing Institute, Zora is also a certified company director, strategic communication management professional, and certified practising marketer. Since joining IABC more than a decade ago, Zora has served as Chair of the Asia Pacific Region, Audit and Risk Committee, 2022 World Conference PAC, and as an IEB director and local chapter president. She was honoured in 2021 and 2015 with the IABC Chair’s Award for Leadership and named 2020 Regional Leader of the Year. She is an awards judge for the IABC Gold Quill Awards, IAP2 Core Value Awards, the Australian Marketing Institute Awards, and the global Cannes Lions Awards for Effectiveness.

Diane Gayeski is recognized as a thought leader in the practice and teaching of business communications. She is Professor of Strategic Communications at the Roy H. Park School of Communications at Ithaca College and provides consulting in communications analysis and strategies through Gayeski Analytics. Diane was recently inducted as an IABC Fellow; she’s been active in IABC for more than 30 years as a featured speaker and think-tank leader at the international conference, the author of 3 editions of the IABC-published book, Managing the Communications Function, and the advisor to Ithaca College’s student chapter. She’s led more than 300 client engagements for clients, including the US Navy, Bank of Montreal, Fiat, Sony, Abbott Diagnostics, and Borg-Warner, focusing on assessing and building the capacities and new technologies for workplace communications and learning teams.

Mary Hills, MA, IABC Fellow, ABC, Six Sigma, serves as a Professional/Scholar in Residence in Loyola University Chicago’s MS Global Strategic Communication program and as Professional and Organizational Development Faculty for the Centre for Strategic Communication Excellence. Mary’s career includes service and leadership in large corporations such as First Wisconsin National Bank – Milwaukee, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Whiteco Advertising, NiSource and Northern Trust. Most recently, she was Business Principle of HeimannHills Marketing Group, Chicago and Phoenix. Utilizing her expertise in business management and communication, she published, in 2020, the Business of Business for Communication Professionals on-demand course to upskill communication professionals as they pursue communication management positions. Mary holds a B.S./Business – Finance & Marketing from Marquette University, Milwaukee, WI and an M.A. Communication – Organizational & Structure from Purdue University, W. Lafayette, IN. Her industry leadership and work in marketing and strategic communication has been recognized with the IABC Southern Region Hall of Fame Recipient (2022), IABC Rae Hamlin Award (2021), Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce – Fellow (2018), IABC Fellow (2016), IABC Chicago Karen Utterback Award (2015) and IABC Chairman’s Award (2012).

Martha Muzychka, ABC, MC, speaks, writes, listens, and helps others do the same to make change happen. Martha is a strategic, creative problem solver seeking challenging communications environments where we can make a difference. She helps her clients navigate competing priorities and embrace communications challenges. Martha offers strategic planning, facilitation, and consultation services as well as writing and editing, qualitative research, and policy analysis. Her work has been recognized locally, nationally, and internationally with multiple awards.

The post Circle of Fellows #90: Communicating Change appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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As communicators, we are often at our best while functioning as trusted advisors to executives, colleagues and other key business stakeholders. But trust isn’t gained overnight. How do you build trust for the long-term?

Enter Jason Anthoine, the managing founder and “head honcho” of Audacity, a communications consultancy that helps companies inform, involve and inspire their employees by immersing themselves in businesses and absorbing as much as possible, from balance sheets and organizational goals to day-to-day operations.

“We will never be able to understand what their world is like unless we insert ourselves into it,” Jason told us. “We’re here to understand you better so we can give you more of what you want and, more importantly, less of what you don’t want.”

In our conversation, Jason explains how his team helps businesses define and simplify overall strategy, streamline communication and use relevant key performance indicators (KPIs) to marry employee engagement to the business’ goals: “We need to measure the efficacy of our comms efforts, but in support of the outcomes that the business is trying to achieve.”

For more from Jason:

• Visit Think Audacity.
• Email jason@thinkaudacity.com or find him on LinkedIn.
• In this episode, Jason referenced a pair of books by David C. Baker: The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth and The Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors. You can learn more about David, the founder of management consulting firm Recourses, Inc. and author of six books, at his website.

The post EPISODE #69: JASON ANTHOINE ON BECOMING A COMMS TRUSTED ADVISOR appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Network outages. Fleeing advertisers. Disaffected staff. News reports of abusive behavior. Rents in arrears. And news feeds are increasingly swamped with posts from trolls and bots. Things are not looking good for the bird site. But if it fails, what’s the alternative? The fediverse is questionable. LinkedIn is solid, but its focus is on business. Jack Dorsey’s Bluesky is coming, but it’s federated, too. Is there anything out there that can serve the function Twitter does? Neville and Shel examine the situation and explore the alternatives in this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, March 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Twitter can’t protect you from trolls any more, insiders say
• BBC One – Panorama, Elon Musk’s Twitter Storm
• Twitter’s Revenue, Adjusted Earnings Fell About 40% in Month of December
• Twitter revenue plunged in December as advertisers stayed away after Elon Musk’s takeover, report says
• Twitter hit by another outage as Musk complains platform is ‘so brittle’
• How a single engineer brought down Twitter on Monday

The post FIR #322: If Not Twitter, Then Where? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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We are back after a hiatus and speaking to Anna Griffin, who recently joined cloud storage provider Commvault as Chief Market Officer. Anna has held marketing leadership positions at Smartsheet, Intercom, Nortel, CA and Juniper Networks, among others. That longevity has helped her gain perspective in how to operate in good times and not-so-good times, and our interview explores what she has learned from these experiences.

Anna told us about how marketers have to be careful not to let their organization appear to be a cost center. Rather, they should believe and demonstrate that they are a necessary and valuable asset to the company. Take advantage of a downturn by leaning in and focusing on customers so that the company can craft a message that’s more relevant to their needs. She suggested that marketers should fight for their budgets and focus on high-value activities that will help the company grow. “Someone has to grow, even in lean times,” she said.

Anna spoke about how she has embraced many of the tenets of B2C marketing, even though she has spent more of her career in the B2B world. “I believe that is true since the beginning of time; we are selling human-to-human after all.” Maybe we should start using the term H2H?

“We should remove any frictions in the purchasing process by understanding that community is the new B2B playbook and that customers want things now,” she said. The sales organization needs to be part of the marketing effort, and marketers should be sure playbooks are coordinated.

Being a market leader isn’t just about touting your company’s presence on some “magic quadrant” because customers don’t buy MQs, Anna said. “We have to show more specifics about how we can solve the actual customers’ problems. This means we have to be more targeted in how we can add value for them on day one.”

The post FIR B2B #158: Anna Griffin on Marketing in Uncertain Times appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Most agencies love awards. Larger agencies even have teams devoted to seeking them.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss why the time and money spent on awards may be misplaced.

They even have a suggestion for those of you who may disagree so that you can make a more informed decision about your future investment in awards.[read the transcript]The post ALP 183: Think twice about seeking awards for your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In the laundry list of mistakes and missteps from Norfolk Southern in the wake of the disastrous train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, what stands out the most is that the company seems to be making it all about them and not the people suffering the fallout of the crisis. (At a town hall meeting, a company representative kept repeating how awful everyone at Norfolk Southern felt about the incident. Nobody in East Palestine cares how anybody at Norfolk Southern feels.) You have to wonder if they’re getting and ignoring good crisis counsel, if the counsel they’re getting is bad, or if they’re not getting any professional input at all.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, March 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• More Crisis Lessons In The Aftermath Of Norfolk Southern’s Train Accident
• Norfolk Southern CEO defends railroad’s response to Ohio derailment | CNN Business
• Norfolk Southern Fumbles Its Crisis Response
• Norfolk Southern blames misinformation for its derailed response

The post FIR #321: Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Crisis Comms appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Everybody hates change, right? You hear that all the time; it’s why organizational change is so hard. The fact is, people love change. They willingly and enthusiastically make changes all the time. They change their fashions, their hair styles, their cars, their homes, their vacation spots, their furniture, their spouses…

If change is hard in organizations, it’s not because people just don’t like change. If there is resistance to change, you have to know why. Even if resistance is not a major issue, managing change is still a complex challenge for communicators, who play multiple roles during a change initiative, creating alignment so employees and leaders are on the same page about where we are, where we’re going, why we’re going there, how we’ll get there, and so on. And that doesn’t even account for dealing with the ongoing, day-to-day change that is a fact of life in any business. (As they say, change is the only constant in life.)

On Thursday, March 16, four Fellows of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) will discuss a wide variety of communication-related change issues. The panel, hosted by IABC Fellow Shel Holtz, SCMP, will begin at 5 p.m. ET. You will be able to ask questions and share your comments and observations, engaging directly with the panelists. Don’t miss this opportunity to hear from experienced communicators with combined decades of change communication experience.

About the Panel

Zora Artis is a leading Alignment, Brand and Communication Strategist. She works with executive and senior leaders to unlock the value in their people, brands, and organizations through alignment with purpose, promise and strategies, and effective communication. She has over three decades of experience in business, brand, marketing, communication, and advertising, working with government, private and non-profit sectors. This includes roles as Group Account Director, Strategy Director, and CEO of integrated marcomms and advertising firms. She now runs her own management consulting practice bringing together strategic alignment, capability training, and brand and communications expertise. Zora holds a Master’s in Marketing and Commerce and is a trained facilitator in alignment, design thinking, and business model generation.

An IABC Fellow and a Fellow of the Australian Marketing Institute, Zora is also a certified company director, strategic communication management professional, and certified practising marketer. Since joining IABC more than a decade ago, Zora has served as Chair of the Asia Pacific Region, Audit and Risk Committee, 2022 World Conference PAC, and as an IEB director and local chapter president. She was honoured in 2021 and 2015 with the IABC Chair’s Award for Leadership and named 2020 Regional Leader of the Year. She is an awards judge for the IABC Gold Quill Awards, IAP2 Core Value Awards, the Australian Marketing Institute Awards, and the global Cannes Lions Awards for Effectiveness.

Diane Gayeski is recognized as a thought leader in the practice and teaching of business communications. She is Professor of Strategic Communications at the Roy H. Park School of Communications at Ithaca College and provides consulting in communications analysis and strategies through Gayeski Analytics. Diane was recently inducted as an IABC Fellow; she’s been active in IABC for more than 30 years as a featured speaker and think-tank leader at the international conference, the author of 3 editions of the IABC-published book, Managing the Communications Function, and the advisor to Ithaca College’s student chapter. She’s led more than 300 client engagements for clients, including the US Navy, Bank of Montreal, Fiat, Sony, Abbott Diagnostics, and Borg-Warner, focusing on assessing and building the capacities and new technologies for workplace communications and learning teams.

Mary Hills’ career as a marketing and communication professional has been in companies undergoing significant evolution, change, and growth. She has held leadership positions with responsibility for developing plans and schemas to support long-term growth and business sustainability goals. She has more than 20 years experience and expertise in designing and delivering training and development programs for companies and organizations, bringing theories, models, and frameworks into everyday practice. In addition to her role at HeimannHills Marketing Group, Mary serves as Adjunct Faculty in the MS – Global Strategic Communication program at Loyola University Chicago. Mary speaks internationally and nationally on marketing, communication, standards, and practices.

Martha Muzychka, ABC, MC, speaks, writes, listens, and helps others do the same to make change happen. Martha is a strategic, creative problem solver seeking challenging communications environments where we can make a difference. She helps her clients navigate competing priorities and embrace communications challenges. Martha offers strategic planning, facilitation, and consultation services as well as writing and editing, qualitative research, and policy analysis. Her work has been recognized locally, nationally, and internationally with multiple awards.

The post Join IABC Fellows for a Live Panel on Change Management appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Artificial Intelligence is already embedded in daily life, from product recommendations based on past purchases to playlist suggestions. If you use a smartwatch or health-monitoring wearable, you’re using AI. The leap demonstrated by recently released generated AI apps suggests that future developments are going to come at an accelerated pace. We’ve also seen amazing robotic developments. (Have you watched a recent Boston Dynamics video or checked out Loona, the robotic pet that was the hit of CES in January?) Mix the two, bake for a decade, and imagine what you’ll get.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, March 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• The chores AI will do for you within a decade
• I made ChatGPT my secretary for a week – here’s how it went
• International Baccalaureate lets pupils use ChatGPT to write essays
• A Chatbot Is Secretly Doing My Job
• Public Awareness of Artificial Intelligence in Everyday Activities

The post FIR #320: The Chorebots of 2033 appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Like many of us, agency owners can fall into the trap of believing that tools solve problems.

The reality is that we use tools to implement the processes that solve problems.

Rather than falling in love with the latest and greatest, start by understanding what you want the tool to do for you.

Whether you are considering switching project management systems or implementing a new time tracking program or just exploring some new innovation you just heard about, the advice that Gini and Chip have to offer in this week’s episode will help.[read the transcript]The post ALP 182: Do you need a new tool for [whatever]? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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A lot of company leaders believe a return to the office is a prerequisite to raising productivity and employee engagement metrics. A look at the data seems to reveal exactly the opposite: Productivity rose near the start of the pandemic and plummeted when companies began demanding employees come back to the office. Engagement numbers also fell well after the start of the pandemic in 2020, according to the premier engagement researcher. The world of work has changed, whether senior leaders understand that or not, which puts a lot of responsibility on the shoulders of in-house communicators.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, March 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Employee engagement tops PR priorities
• The return to the office could be the real reason for the slump in productivity. Here’s the data to prove it
• Disney employees fight mandate to work at offices four days a week
• U.S. Employee Engagement Needs a Rebound in 2023
• The World’s Workplace Is Broken — Here’s How to Fix It

The post FIR #319: Return to Work Mandates Damage Engagement and Productivity appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Agency owners frequently lament to Chip and Gini that their employees don’t have a proper sense of urgency and don’t seem to work hard enough.

The co-hosts explore whether this is specific to Gen Z or if it has broader applications.

At the same time, Chip and Gini look at the causes for this concern and potential solutions. (Fair warning: a big piece of the answer lies in the mirror.)[read the transcript]The post ALP 181: Managing Gen Z agency employees (and anyone else with less experience than you) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Mainstream and tech media alike have filled their pages with headlines about disastrous demos, worrisome uses, fleeing users, and evaporating investments. Is it all true? Or is it a combination of clickbait and a failure to understand what’s really happening? In the February long-form episode of the “For Immediate Release” podcast, Neville and Shel look at generative Artificial Intelligence (AI) developments, mostly having to do with ChatGPT and Microsoft’s integration of it into limited-release versions of Bing and Edge. Also in this episode:

• With all the AI coverage and some media still paying attention to the Metaverse, reporting on NFTs and other aspects of Web3 seem to have fallen off the radar, but there was a big Web3 development when the world’s largest pharmaceutical company invested big money in a decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) that was launched to circumvent big pharmaceutical companies.
• To read the coverage, you would think that all those people who signed up for Mastodon when Twitter became a less desirable platform are fleeing faster than high school students when the bell rings after the last class before summer vacation. But are they really?
• Most of the metaverse reporting that suggests investment is drying up and business interest has cratered is based on a false premise. There’s plenty of movement and investment in the metaverse, assuming you understand that it’s a network, not a place.
• New research finds that a fast-growing number of podcast fans would rather watch a podcast than just listen to one.
• In his tech report, Dan York also looks at third-party Mastodon apps, how Roblox plans to use generative AI, the opening of a new Federal Trade Commission Office of Technology to fight “AI snake oil,” and the upcoming Supreme Court hearing that could have a profound impact on communicators and our ability to publish information online.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, March 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

Artificial Intelligence

• Opera’s building ChatGPT into its sidebar
• Reddit thinks AI chatbots will “complement” human connection, not replace it
• The accelerating use of generative AI may prompt U.S. action
• Generative AI is here: How tools like ChatGPT could change your business
• Google employees criticize CEO Sundar Pichai for ‘rushed, botched’ announcement of GPT competitor Bard
• How to Use ChatGPT to Save Time and Make Work Easier
• 4chan users embrace AI voice clone tool to generate celebrity hate speech
• 11 Disadvantages Of ChatGPT Content
• Real estate agents say they can’t imagine working without ChatGPT now | CNN Business
• Chatting with Bing Chat, codenamed Sydney and sometimes Riley, feels like crossing the Rubicon because the AI is attempting to communicate emotions, not facts
• Microsoft’s new ChatGPT AI starts sending ‘unhinged’ messages to people
• You can jump the waitlist for Microsoft’s AI Bing chat. Here’s how.
• Why is ChatGPT sending Bing users ‘unhinged’ messages?
• AI image generator hit by $1.8 trillion lawsuit from Getty Images
• How Nestlé is using AI to set creative rules for its 15,000 marketers
• The new Bing & Edge – Learning from our first week
• Generative AI Can Help You Tailor Messaging to Specific Audiences
• How PR agencies are using AI
• Exclusive: Microsoft’s Bing plans AI ads in early pitch to advertisers
• Microsoft says Bing chats will now be capped at 50 questions per day and five per session; after five questions, Bing will prompt users to start a new topic

Web3 and Decentralized Autonomous Organizations (DAOs)

• VitaDAO: Pfizer-Invested Longevity Research, A New Paradigm for Decentralized Science?
• What are the applications of NFTs in supply chains?

Mastodon Update

• We tried to run a social media site and it was awful

Metaverse Update

• Will metaverse and tech make people lazy? Experts respond at Dubai summit
• Whatever happened to the metaverse?

Podcasting Update

• New podcast creation has fallen off a cliff
• Podcasting could be in for a rocky 2023
• Podcasters First Wanted Your Ears. Now They Want Your Eyes Too
• Riverside.fm twitter thread featuring infographics

Links from Dan York’s Tech Report

• Analytodon, service for Mastodon engagement statistics
• Generative AI on Roblox: Our Vision for the Future of Creation
• Generative AI on Roblox (YouTube video)
• A Century of Technological Evolution at the Federal Trade Commission

The post FIR #318: AI, Mastodon, the Metaverse — Headlines vs. Reality appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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As communication professionals grow in their careers, they’re expected to provide strategic counsel to company executives about communication and its impact on business. This week’s hot topic might be new legal regulations; next week, it could be stakeholder relations. No matter the issue, IABC’s Code of Ethics serves as a roadmap for communication professionals, guiding them to make consistent, responsible, ethical, and legal choices. Join this international panel of IABC Fellows as they share their insights and advice from decades of experience as strategic communication leaders and counselors. A panel of IABC Fellows addressed these issues in a frank conversation on February 16. The video replay is available below; the podcast is available here.

About the Panel

Dr. Amanda Hamilton-Attwell, accredited by both IABC and PRSA. She is Managing Director of Business DNA, based in South Africa, which provides strategic research and consulting, including communication audits, customer service, and women’s leadership topics. She is licensed in Adobe Connect and WebEx, using these to conduct virtual professional learning and education sessions. and other focused research and training in communication skills. Her career has also included a 15-year stint as a research manager for the National Productivity Institute.

Todd “Tosh” Hattori — Leveraging 20+ years of leading in-house communication functions within a variety of organizations and industries, Tosh shifted his career focus toward helping organization leaders address business challenges by setting and implementing organizational excellence strategies. He is currently the continuous improvement lead for F5 Networks where he applies Lean Six Sigma methods to collaborate with cross-functional teams to eliminate waste and establish consistencies that deliver exceptional employee and customer experiences. Tosh also serves on the volunteer board of directors for the Technology Access Foundation, a national model / leader in providing science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) education to students of color; and improving diversity, upward mobility, and retention of teachers-of-color in Washington.

Mary Ann McCauley is committed to ensuring people communicate more effectively about their organizations’ products and services. With a specialty practice in crisis management, Mary Ann addresses sensitive issues with timeliness, dignity, and minimal backlash. “Managing communication during a crisis requires common sense folded into a structured process,” she says.

Ritzi Ronquillo is a multi-awarded communication leader in corporate, community, and associations in the Philippines and abroad. Ritzi is an Accredited Public Relations (APR) Professional and a Fellow of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), the highest honor bestowed upon an IABC member with significant impact on their organization, on IABC, and on the communication profession at large. She brings four decades of experience in communication and PR to her assignments. She is a broadcast communication graduate of UP.A university entrance scholar and scholar of the Kapisanan ng mga Brodkaster ng Pilipinas/Broadcast Media Council (KBP/BMC).

Jennifer Wah, MC, ABC, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. The company operates as a strategic alliance of hand-picked professionals; all renowned for work in their areas of specialization. This approach means the right team is assembled for each project; no more, no less. With more than two dozen awards for strategic communications, writing and consulting, Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare to financial services to academia, and is passionate about the opportunity for stories to inspire actions and reactions within organizations.In 2013, Jennifer was named Associate Faculty of Royal Roads University, and in this capacity, continues to teach, coach and mentor others with an interest in business communication.

The post Circle of Fellows #89: At the Crossroads of Counsel and Ethics appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Influencer marketing is a multi-billion-dollar industry, with Instagrammers and TikTokers with large followings pitching products in exchange for cash and other considerations. In response, some on Instagram and TikTok have taken to slamming those very same products — for free. It’s a trend that’s on the rise.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, February 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• The rise of the anti-influencers
• De-influence marketing – what’s it about and what are the issues
• Will deinfluencing be the trend to kill influencer marketing?

The post FIR #317: The Rise of the De-Influencer appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Do you have a plan for what others should do if you should suddenly become unavailable due to illness, accident, or even death?

It’s not a fun thing to think about, but it is important to think ahead and make sure that you have at least a few essential steps in place for handling these unexpected events.

Chip and Gini tackle this topic, and while they encourage you to keep it simple they do walk you through some things that you should be considering in a “hit by a bus” plan for yourself that will set you, your team, and your loved ones up for an easier time.[read the transcript]The post ALP 180: What if something happens to you as agency owner? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Before Twitter, before Facebook, there were blogs. People who shared an interest in the blog’s theme congregated there and had conversations. The general tone was positive, even when people disagreed. As the social media space deteriorates and Twitter’s future is in doubt, storyteller and freelancer Monique Judge suggests a return to blogging as the primary means of online social engagement. Is such a pivot possible? Neville and Shel share their thoughts in this short midweek episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, February 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Bring back personal blogging
• Diversity Vs. Merit: It’s A No-Brainer (Shel’s post referenced in the episode)

The post FIR #316: Back to Blogging appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#749: Tom Schmidt and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Beat any business crisis with planning and stewardship. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Tom Schmidt (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-schmidt-831866b4/), HERO Club member at The Hero Club, who runs an insurance and financial services agency that specializes in employee benefits, long-term care, business succession, retirement and estate planning for businesses and individuals.

Tom helps individuals leave behind a legacy of stewardship and empower those that follow them. The focus of his work is to have a meaningful impact on his clients, their families, their businesses, and their communities.

If you’re in a business and know that there’s an upcoming crisis, consider reaching out to Tom Schmidt by calling his office phone number 405-751-1505 and visiting his LinkedIn page https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-schmidt-833186bb4/.

Here are a couple of AHA messages from this episode:

• Business owners with upcoming crises should reach out to Tom Schmidt. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-schmidt-831866b4/
• I can help you maintain your employees even as #Crisis hits so you can focus on keeping your business doors open. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-schmidt-8331866b4/
• My role is to be both your sounding and resource board to help you with planning especially when difficulties arise. #Crisis https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-schmidt-8331866b4/
• Many businesses turned upside down especially when covid hit. I can be your counsel as every business owner, every human, has some #Crisis of sorts right around the corner. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-schmidt-8331866b4/
• I can help you stay afloat in the midst of #Crisis where you can put your focus more on actually doing the business and still being able to serve the needs of your customers and clients. https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-schmidt-833186bb4/

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #749: Tom Schmidt w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#748: Jon Mertz and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Cultivate the sense of community and sense of responsibility through business leadership. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Jon Mertz (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmertz/), the founder of Santa Fe Innovates.

Jon Mertz is a researcher, speaker, and thought entrepreneur. He is a farmer’s son, who adheres to the mindset of a farmer that possesses a sense of responsibility. Whilst it has been long since he had left their farm for his career in the government, large corporations, and entrepreneurship, he still believes in the power of interconnection and dedication to hard work for the betterment of society.

If you’re a leader that doesn’t lead like a farmer, you should reach out to Jon Mertz by logging on to https://www.jonmertz.com/ or by visiting https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmertz/.

Here are several AHA messages from this episode:

• Leaders who don’t lead farmers should reach out to Jon Mertz. #BusinessLeadership https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmertz/ @jonmertz
• The role of CEOs is really having healthy conversations about pressing issues and trying to cultivate that sense of responsibility and sense of community within young business leaders. #BusinessLeadership https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmertz/ @jonmertz
• I spent the first eight years of my career in Washington DC, being involved in politics and government. So I understood the role of constituents and how you need to listen, give back and provide service to them! #BusinessLeadership https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmertz/ @jonmertz
• I work as a guest lecturer talking about the role of CEOs. And in this world of activism, the issues are so intertwined with the businesses today. So I foster a healthy discourse within the populace. #BusinessLeadership https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmertz/ @jonmertz
• It’s not just working with the entrepreneurs, but with our community as well, because we know it takes a community to launch a business and to keep it centered in profit and purpose! #BusinessLeadership https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonmertz/ @jonmertz

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #748: Jon Mertz w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In a lot of companies, the PR and communications functions live under Marketing. For a variety of reasons, that is not the best approach. Marketing, after all, has a distinct role to play in short-to-mid-term lead generation and other outcomes based mostly on paid outreach. PR, on the other hand, is all about earned media designed to build reputation and promote thought leadership. Someone needs to sit at a senior level to ensure these efforts and other communication functions, like advertising, investor relations, and community relations, are coordinated and consistent. Call that person the Chief Communications Officer. Is it time every company anoints one? Neville and Shel explore the issue in this short midweek FIR episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, February 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Why 2023 is the year of the chief communications officer

The post FIR #315: Does Every Company Need A CCO? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Most agencies depend on vendors and contracts to help provide at least some of the results that their clients expect.

Any time you rely on these third parties, you need to consider what happens if they don’t deliver as expected.

As more agencies consider using AI tools like ChatGPT to deliver services at reduced costs or shorter timeframes, these dependencies pose an even greater risk if they fail to perform as expected.

Chip and Gini discuss options, including having fallback plans or making clear to a client that results are contingent upon that other company or organization doing their part.

[read the transcript]

The post ALP 179: Relying on third parties to deliver agency services appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#747: Gabriel Blanc-Lainé and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Addressing poor business performance to change the way manager’s work and become a better version of themselves. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Gabriel Blanc-Lainé (https://www.linkedin.com/in/gblanclaine/). He is the Founder and Chief Empowerment Officer at 7ransforma7ions. He helps leaders and managers boost their team and their business performance to the next level.
His goal is to allow you to increase your performance in a quick and structured way, knowing precisely “What to do” and above all “How to do”. He wants to understand your situation, your needs and your goals. Then see together how he can help you.

If you recognize somewhere in what you’re doing performance is not what it needs to be, you should reach out to Gabriel Blanc-Lainé by visiting his website at https://7ransforma7ions.com/ or through https://www.linkedin.com/in/gblanclaine/

Here are a couple of AHA messages from this episode:

• Managers who recognize they’re having poor #Business Performance should reach out to Gabriel Blanc-Lainé by visiting his website at https://7ransforma7ions.com/ or through https://www.linkedin.com/in/gblanclaine/.
• Sometimes you don’t always see poor #BusinessPerformance. Sometimes it’s hidden in the numbers and so recognizing that there’s something that needs to be addressed. https://www.linkedin.com/in/gblanclaine/
• I love to share my credibility because it’s something I love to do. #BusinessPerformance https://www.linkedin.com/in/gblanclaine/
• Just a little piece of contribution I love sharing what I have learned actually on the ground, sometimes there are ways. #BusinessPerformance https://www.linkedin.com/in/gblanclaine/
• I love to see people able to change the way they work to change the way they are interacting, dealing with other people and the way they consider themselves. #BusinessPerformance https://www.linkedin.com/in/gblanclaine/

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #747: Guest Gabriel Blanc-Lainé w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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#746: Amanda Setili and Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility Episode

Overcome the growth hurdles of your company by building new capabilities and committing to a new direction. This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Amanda Setili (https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasetili/), President Setili & Associates that helps leaders agree on what needs to change and how to make it happen.

Amanda brings a fresh and objective view of what’s possible to companies while using their knowledge to their advantage in growth. Her superpower involves working across the organization to resolve its hurdles and resistance, build new capabilities, and create a commitment to the next direction. Her clients include UPS, Coca-Cola, Cox Communications, Delta Air Lines, Tampa International Airport, Home Depot, Walmart, and more.

If you have a growth hurdle, or you know others who do, reach out to Amanda Setili by going to her website at https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasetili/.

Here are a couple of AHA messages from this episode:

• Companies with growth hurdles should reach out to Amanda Setili. https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasetili/ @AmandaSetili
• I work with executives and their teams to identify the most significant opportunities they want to go after and commit to them as a group or individual. https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasetili/ @AmandaSetili
• I like putting companies in this learning and growth journey to get them to some new place that they’ve never been before. https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasetili/ @AmandaSetili
• I went to Harvard Business School. I’ve worked with fifty to a hundred companies. We have confronted some challenging problems and solved them. I’ve helped generate billions of dollars in revenue. https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasetili/ @AmandaSetili
• I’ve helped companies generate billions of dollars in revenue. I’ve worked with fun people and brands that are already great, but wanna do even better because the market is changing so fast. https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandasetili/

To view the video interview click here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership and how it can help you be successful, visit: https://www.thoughtleaderlife.com/.

The post #746: Amanda Setili w/ Mitchell Levy on Thought Leader Life Credibility appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Are written and spoken recommendations received equally? Contrary to what may seem logical, they are not, according to new research. In this short midweek FIR episode, Shel and Neville explore what the study’s findings could mean for how marketers and communicators wield influence over the decisions people make.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, February 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Effective Recommendations Are Better Heard Than Seen

The post FIR #314: Show Or Tell? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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As communication professionals grow in their careers, they’re expected to provide strategic counsel to company executives about communication and its impact on business. This week’s hot topic might be new legal regulations; next week, it could be stakeholder relations. No matter the issue, IABC’s Code of Ethics serves as a roadmap for communication professionals, guiding them to make consistent, responsible, ethical, and legal choices. Join this international panel of IABC Fellows as they share their insights and advice from decades of experience as strategic communication leaders and counselors.

Episode #89 of Circle of Fellows is scheduled for 10 a.m. ET on Thursday, February 16. Shel Holtz, SCMP, ABC, IABC Fellow, will moderate the panel. You can ask questions and share observations and comments in real-time using YouTube’s live-streaming chat feature. If you can’t participate during the live panel, you can always watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast shortly after the panel discussion wraps up.

About the Panel

Dr. Amanda Hamilton-Attwell, accredited by both IABC and PRSA. She is Managing Director of Business DNA, based in South Africa, which provides strategic research and consulting, including communication audits, customer service, and women’s leadership topics. She is licensed in Adobe Connect and WebEx, using these to conduct virtual professional learning and education sessions. and other focused research and training in communication skills. Her career has also included a 15-year stint as a research manager for the National Productivity Institute.

Todd “Tosh” Hattori — Leveraging 20+ years of leading in-house communication functions within a variety of organizations and industries, Tosh shifted his career focus toward helping organization leaders address business challenges by setting and implementing organizational excellence strategies. He is currently the continuous improvement lead for F5 Networks where he applies Lean Six Sigma methods to collaborate with cross-functional teams to eliminate waste and establish consistencies that deliver exceptional employee and customer experiences. Tosh also serves on the volunteer board of directors for the Technology Access Foundation, a national model / leader in providing science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) education to students of color; and improving diversity, upward mobility, and retention of teachers-of-color in Washington.

Mary Ann McCauley is committed to ensuring people communicate more effectively about their organizations’ products and services. With a specialty practice in crisis management, Mary Ann addresses sensitive issues with timeliness, dignity, and minimal backlash. “Managing communication during a crisis requires common sense folded into a structured process,” she says.

Ritzi Ronquillo is a multi-awarded communication leader in corporate, community, and associations in the Philippines and abroad. Ritzi is an Accredited Public Relations (APR) Professional and a Fellow of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), the highest honor bestowed upon an IABC member with significant impact on their organization, on IABC, and on the communication profession at large. She brings four decades of experience in communication and PR to her assignments. She is a broadcast communication graduate of UP.A university entrance scholar and scholar of the Kapisanan ng mga Brodkaster ng Pilipinas/Broadcast Media Council (KBP/BMC).

Jennifer Wah, MC, ABC, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. The company operates as a strategic alliance of hand-picked professionals; all renowned for work in their areas of specialization. This approach means the right team is assembled for each project; no more, no less. With more than two dozen awards for strategic communications, writing and consulting, Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare to financial services to academia, and is passionate about the opportunity for stories to inspire actions and reactions within organizations.In 2013, Jennifer was named Associate Faculty of Royal Roads University, and in this capacity, continues to teach, coach and mentor others with an interest in business communication.

The post At the Crossroads of Communication Counsel and Ethics appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Artificial intelligence (AI) is here, and no one is less surprised than Shel Holtz.

So many of us know Shel from his 40-plus years as a consultant, speaker, blogger, author, and co-founder of the FIR Podcast Network, but it is his fascination with emerging technologies that make him the ideal person to discuss AI models like ChatGPT.

“Mark my words,” Shel wrote in 2016, “Bots are coming to the workplace, to media relations, to public relations. They are coming just as surely as the web was going to completely disrupt the way communications was done a quarter century ago.”

Now, with his prediction a reality, Shel joins our podcast to urge communicators to embrace AI tools, rather than fear being replaced by them. To Shel, learning how to properly – and ethically – use AI is becoming an essential skill and can help us generate ideas, overcome writers block, teach writing, and save time. Here are Shel’s three keys to staying ahead of the curve:

• “Read everything you can get your hands on.” People are innovating all the time, and we have likely just scratched the surface of AI’s capabilities.
• “Identify the kind of work that can be augmented by AI.” AI will not do our jobs for us, but it can be an effective time saver.
• “Learn how to write a good prompt.” Garbage in, garbage out, as they say.

For more:

• Listen to our 2017 episode on chatbots with digital workplace consultant Chris McGrath
• Visit Shel’s website at https://holtz.com/
• Email Shel at holtz@gmail.com
• Listen to Shel’s podcast, For Immediate Release, and the other members of the FIR Podcast Network (including EE Voice) at https://www.firpodcastnetwork.com/

The post EPISODE #68: SHEL HOLTZ – EMBRACING CHATGPT FOR INTERNAL COMMS appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Regular listeners know that Chip and Gini aren’t fans of most agency RFP processes and believe that most of them should be avoided.

But if you choose to play the game, you need to watch out for onerous terms and conditions — especially ridiculously slow payment terms.

The co-hosts pick up on news reports about 1-year payment terms being proposed (and defended) by Dr. Pepper. This turns agencies into banks, something for which they are ill-suited.

Rather than focusing primarily on price, with a secondary interest in scope, agencies need to look at the entirety of the contract terms that they are agreeing to with prospective clients.[read the transcript]The post ALP 178: Beware of dangerous agency RFP terms and conditions appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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There’s a perception that people in their 20’s, raised with digital technology and accustomed to more effective messaging technologies, simply don’t use email. Could that spell the beginning of the end of this clunky, 50-plus-year-old business tool? Neville and Shel consider the possibility in this short, midweek FIR episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, February 20.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• ‘They’re 25, they don’t do emails’: is instant chat replacing the inbox?
• Of course Gen Z check emails — we’d be fired otherwise
• Business Practices That Refuse to Die #44 (YouTube)

The post FIR #313: Will Gen Z Finally Kill Email? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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According to the Global Communication Certification Council, “Professional certifications through GCCC® give you the opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge and expertise and provide evidence of your outstanding abilities. Becoming certified engages you in the process of life-long learning that elevates your career and provides a structure for keeping your skills fresh and applicable.”

On January 19, four IABC Fellows joined moderator Shel Holtz, SCMP, and four IABC Fellows for a conversation about certification. The discussion ranged from why certification matters and what the CMP and SCMP certifications represent to how to prepare and how to maintain certification after earning it.

About the panel

Priya Bates is a senior communication executive who provides strategic internal communication counsel in order to ensure leaders, managers, and employees understand the strategy, believe in the vision, act in accordance with the values, and contribute to business results. She is president of Inner Strength Communications in Toronto and previously served as senior director of Internal Communications at Loblaw Companies.

An accredited business communicator, and past global chair of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), Adrian Cropley is widely recognized as one of the world’s foremost experts and consultants in strategic communication. With a career spanning over 30 years, Adrian has worked with clients all over the world, including Fortune 500 companies, on major change communication initiatives, internal communication reviews and strategies, professional development programs, and executive leadership and coaching. He has been a keynote speaker and workshop leader on strategic and change communication at international conferences in Canada, the U.S., Europe, the Middle East, Malaysia, Singapore, China, India, Hong Kong, Thailand, New Zealand, and Australia. He has received a number of awards including international Gold Quill awards for communication excellence. Adrian is a member of the Program Advisory Committee for the RMIT School of Media and Communication, is currently chairing the IABC’s Big Ideas Taskforce, and in 2020 was named a Fellow of the IABC.

Robin McCasland, IABC Fellow, SCMP leads her employer’s content creation and delivery teams. She also leads the employee listening program, demonstrating to senior leaders how employee and executive communication add value to the business bottom line. Previously, Robin excelled in communication leadership roles for Texas Instruments, Dell, Tenet Healthcare, and Burlington Northern Santa Fe. She has also worked for large and boutique HR consulting firms, leading major communication initiatives for a variety of well-known companies. Robin is a past IABC chairman and served in countless association leadership roles for nearly 30 years. She was honored in 2021 by Ragan/PR Daily as one of the Top Women Leaders in Communication. She’s also received IABC Southern Region and IABC Dallas Communicator of the Year honors. Robin is a graduate of The University of Texas at Austin and a Leadership Texas alumnus. Her own podcast, Torpid Liver (and other symptoms of poor communication), features guest speakers and addresses timely topics to help others become better and more influential communication professionals. She resides in Dallas, Texas with her husband, Mitch, and their canine kids, Tank and Petunia.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California wine country and is growing Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes around the world. Brad is a past board chairman of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

The post Circle of Fellows #88: The Global Communication Certification appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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You have decided to take the leap and build your own agency. But how do you find clients?

In this episode, Chip and Gini share their thoughts on how to acquire your earliest clients.

They also look at the steps you should take to build a consistent new business engine that will serve you well for years to come.[read the transcript]The post ALP 177: Biz dev when you’re just starting an agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Everything old is new again, the saying goes. Despite touting the idea of a press release as a destination being a new idea, it actually dates back about 15 years — and retains all of its value. Neville and Shel explore the idea of defeating paywalls with destination press releases in this monthly long-form episode of “For Immediate Release.” Also in this episode:

• Follow-ups to stories about Artificial Intelligence (AI) interns and facial recognition used for nefarious purposes.
• The 2023 Edelman Trust Barometer — and whether Edelman can claim to be trust experts
• A roundup of news and commentary about ChatGPT
• A decline in Mastodon users
• Dan York’s Tech Report, which looks at some Twitter changes, good news for Mastodon users, a Mastodon instance for Medium users, Getty’s lawsuit targeting the generative AI image tool Stable Diffusion, Wikipedia’s new look-and-feel, and WordPress’s upcoming 20th birthday.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Codeword hires the agency world’s first ‘AI interns’
• Judge blasts James Dolan’s facial recognition bans from MSG: ‘Stupidest thing ever’
• New York Lawmakers Protest Madison Square Garden Over Facial Recognition Controversy
• Lawyers Barred by Madison Square Garden Found a Way Back In
• How press releases can break through paywalled news
• 2023 Edelman Trust Barometer
• The world’s biggest PR firm claims to be an expert on trust – but is it?
• Recruitment team unwittingly recommends ChatGPT for job interview
• Microsoft Plans to Build OpenAI, ChatGPT Features Into All Products
• Opinion | How ChatGPT Hijacks Democracy
• Alarmed by A.I. Chatbots, Universities Start Revamping How They Teach
• Don’t Ban ChatGPT in Schools. Teach With It.
• You’ll Be Seeing ChatGPT’s Influence Everywhere This Year
• For PR, Is ChatGPT An Asset Or Threat?
• People are already trying to get ChatGPT to write malware
• Teachers Are Absolutely Loving The Student Who Made A Tool That Shows If Your Essay Was Written By AI
• ChatGPT-4, the Fined Tuned Version of ChatGPT-3, Might Prompt a Major Shift
• An AI writing tool generates a layoff letter as bad as a real company would write! (Should we worry?)
• CEOs at Davos are using ChatGPT to write work emails
• AI and the future of work: 5 experts on what ChatGPT, DALL-E and other AI tools mean for artists and knowledge workers
• Search & Performance Marketing Daily: Portland Shop Uses ChatGPT To Tell Family Stories On A Startup Budget
• ChatGPT and generative AI are the talk of this year’s Davos forum
• Chatbots belong in our classrooms
• ChatGPT will force school exams out of the dark ages
• Elon Musk drove more than a million people to Mastodon – but many aren’t sticking around
• Mastodon Users Have Started Fleeing the Platform
• Elon Musk drove more than a million people to Mastodon – but many aren’t sticking around
• The decentralized technology inside Mastodon
• Mastodon Users (account that displays number of accounts)

Links from Dan York’s Report

• You can pin a List and then swipe to it in the Twitter app
• The next Twitter update will remember which view you are in and come back to that
• Twitter’s new developer terms ban third-party clients
• Twitterrific: End of an Era
• Buffer adds Mastodon to its social media management platform
• Medium Embraces Mastodon
• Getty Images is suing the creators of AI art tool Stable Diffusion for scraping its content
• Wikipedia Gets a Fresh New Look: First Desktop Update in a Decade Puts Usability at the Forefront
• Highlight: Exploring Wikipedia’s new user experience (UX) – danyork324 on Twitch
• WordPress turns 20 in 2023

The post FIR #312: The Social Media Press Release Redux appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Library TikTok is growing — organically. Librarians are meeting teenagers where they are, on TikTok, with videos that attract their attention and lead to library visits and more reading. Can this unorganized, grass-roots approach translate to marketing and communications? Is it looking at the idea of “influence” through a different lens? Neville and Shel explore the idea in this short mid-week episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Librarians Are Meeting Younger Readers Where They Are: TikTok (New York Times)

The post FIR #311: What Communicators Can Learn From Librarians appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Working from home has become more commonplace in the wake of the pandemic, with executives who once believed productivity would plummet now reconciled to the fact that remote work, for the most part, has little impact on productivity (unless, as is the case in some organizations, it actually boosts employee outputs). And a lot of employees are thrilled to be working from home. That doesn’t mean that things aren’t getting a little stale. A Harvard Business Review article suggests remote workers might want to consider making some changes to their routines. The article even inspired Neville to take action he has been considering for a while. It’s all part of this short mid-week FIR episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Is It Time to Shake Up Your WFH Routine?

The post FIR #310: Shake Up Your Work-From-Home Routine appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In our first episode of the year, we look to unpack what’s going on and what lies ahead for communicators in 2023. To us, there’s no one better suited to discuss the present and future of executive communication than David Murray.

In addition to being an expert communicator and accomplished author, David is the Executive Director of the Executive Communication Council, the head of the Professional Speechwriters Association and pens the popular communications blog, “Writing Boots.” We’re thrilled to have him back on EE Voice.

During our conversation, David jests that this is “the first and only interesting time” in executive communication and, while we’ll happily grant our friend some room for hyperbole, the reality is that we have absolutely reached an inflection point. Tune in as David discusses the unprecedented spotlight on – and access to – executives, an increasingly influential workforce, emerging AI technology, and how communicators can plan accordingly. (Tune in for the terrific storytelling; stay for the great advice.)

For more on David:

• Listen to his previous appearances on EE Voice: https://www.firpodcastnetwork.com/tag/david-murray/
• Read his blog, “Writing Boots” at https://writing-boots.com/. (For the direct link to the post we discussed in the episode, click here.)
• Learn about his work with the ECC, Professional Speechwriters Association, and more at https://prorhetoric.com/.
• Order his most recent book, An Effort to Understand: Hearing One Another (and Ourselves) in a Nation Cracked in Half: https://writing-boots.com/an-effort-to-understand/
• Email David at Murray@prorehtoric.com

The post EPISODE #67: DAVID MURRAY – WHAT’S AHEAD FOR EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATION appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The communications world has been abuzz with discussion about the impact that AI-generated content may have on their roles.

Some agency owners are concerned about tools like ChatGPT taking away revenue from their businesses, while others see those same services as an opportunity to increase efficiency and profitability.

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the questions that they have been hearing from agency leaders and share some of their insights on where the technology stands today — and what the future may hold.

[read the transcript]

The post ALP 176: Is AI writing an agency’s friend or foe? appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel tackle a question from listener Kris Hansen about developing a metrics dashboard for her organization’s leadership.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• AMEC’s Valid Metrics Framework: Magic Measurement Bullet? (PR News)
• AMEC’s Interactive Integrated Evaluation Framework

The post FIR #309: Measuring Stuff That Didn’t Happen appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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The virtual worker industry is booming in China. For about $14,000 a year — 80 percent less than it cost just a year earlier — you can get a three-dimensional virtual person to handle everything from tours to customer support. With expectations that the industry will grow by 50 percent annually for the next three years, the arrival of virtual persons in the West is inevitable. Neville and Shel dive into the industry in this short midweek episode of “For Immediate Release.”

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Companies are hiring virtual employees for $14k a year in China
• Companies can ‘hire’ a virtual person for about $14k a year in China
• Baidu Unveils Its Metaverse of Custom Virtual Humans
• China’s Virtual People Industry Booms as Companies Turn to Digitized Employees
• Chinese companies pay $14,000 a year to virtual people to work for them

The post FIR #308: Here Come Virtual Workers appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Keurig Dr. Pepper has stirred up a controversy by issuing an RFP that included payment terms of 360 days. While some big PR and advertising agencies may be able to wait a year to be paid for their work, it’s most likely a non-starter for small and minority-owned agencies. (If most big clients turned to one-year payment terms, even the big agencies might have difficulty accommodating the requirement.) The agency world has united in its condemnation of the move, and Keurig Doctor Pepper’s response is tepid, to say the least. Neville and Shel discuss the situation in this short midweek episode of “For Immediate Release.”

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, January 23.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• VoxComm Issues Red Alert to the Industry Responding Keurig Dr Pepper’s 360-Day Payment Term Request (VoxComm)
• Keurig Dr Pepper’s Message to PR Firms: We Don’t Value You, Leaders Say (PRSA)
• Keurig Dr Pepper Demands 360-Day Payment Terms in RFP (Adweek)
• Keurig Dr Pepper called out for demanding 360-day payment terms in PR tender (Marketing Interactive)
• Outrage over 360-day agency payment terms—Keurig Dr Pepper’s plan highlights issue for industry (AdAge)
• UK ad body slams 360-day payment terms demanded by Keurig Dr Pepper (The Drum)
• How PR Agencies Should Handle Egregious Payment Terms Like Keurig Dr Pepper’s (PR News)
• Keurig Dr Pepper stands by payment terms after backlash from trade bodies (PR Week)

The post FIR #307: We’ll Pay You…In A Year appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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According to the Global Communication Certification Council, “Professional certifications through GCCC® give you the opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge and expertise and provide evidence of your outstanding abilities. Becoming certified engages you in the process of life-long learning that elevates your career and provides a structure for keeping your skills fresh and applicable.”

At 4 p.m. ET on Thursday, January 19, join moderator Shel Holtz, SCMP, and four IABC Fellows for a conversation about certification. The discussion will range from why certification matters and what the CMP and SCMP certifications represent to how to prepare and how to maintain certification after earning it. Participants in the live stream will be able to ask questions and share observations in real-time.

About the panel

Priya Bates is a senior communication executive who provides strategic internal communication counsel in order to ensure leaders, managers, and employees understand the strategy, believe in the vision, act in accordance with the values, and contribute to business results. She is president of Inner Strength Communications in Toronto and previously served as senior director of Internal Communications at Loblaw Companies.

An accredited business communicator, and past global chair of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), Adrian Cropley is widely recognized as one of the world’s foremost experts and consultants in strategic communication. With a career spanning over 30 years, Adrian has worked with clients all over the world, including Fortune 500 companies, on major change communication initiatives, internal communication reviews and strategies, professional development programs, and executive leadership and coaching. He has been a keynote speaker and workshop leader on strategic and change communication at international conferences in Canada, the U.S., Europe, the Middle East, Malaysia, Singapore, China, India, Hong Kong, Thailand, New Zealand, and Australia. He has received a number of awards including international Gold Quill awards for communication excellence. Adrian is a member of the Program Advisory Committee for the RMIT School of Media and Communication, is currently chairing the IABC’s Big Ideas Taskforce, and in 2020 was named a Fellow of the IABC.

Robin McCasland, IABC Fellow, SCMP leads her employer’s content creation and delivery teams. She also leads the employee listening program, demonstrating to senior leaders how employee and executive communication add value to the business bottom line. Previously, Robin excelled in communication leadership roles for Texas Instruments, Dell, Tenet Healthcare, and Burlington Northern Santa Fe. She has also worked for large and boutique HR consulting firms, leading major communication initiatives for a variety of well-known companies. Robin is a past IABC chairman and served in countless association leadership roles for nearly 30 years. She was honored in 2021 by Ragan/PR Daily as one of the Top Women Leaders in Communication. She’s also received IABC Southern Region and IABC Dallas Communicator of the Year honors. Robin is a graduate of The University of Texas at Austin and a Leadership Texas alumnus. Her own podcast, Torpid Liver (and other symptoms of poor communication), features guest speakers and addresses timely topics to help others become better and more influential communication professionals. She resides in Dallas, Texas with her husband, Mitch, and their canine kids, Tank and Petunia.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California wine country and is growing Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes around the world. Brad is a past board chairman of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He chaired the Global Communication Certification Counsel in 2021.

The post Circle of Fellows #88: The Global Communications Certification appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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It’s not unlikely that you have been mispronouncing some well-known company and brand names like IKEA, Hyundai, Porsche, Bayer, and Adidas. Some brands use common mispronunciations as the foundation for a marketing campaign, as Hyundai has undertaken in the UK. Neville and Shel explore some of these campaigns and examine the broader issue of hard-to-pronounce brand names in this short midweek episode of the “For Immediate Release” podcast.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Hyundai changes UK pronunciation of its name to follow global norm
• Mispronunciation of brands – does it matter?
• Hyundai | The Dawn of a New Hyundai. (YouTube video)
• How To Pronounce Popular Brand Names
• 20 Mispronounced Brand Names and How to Actually Say Them
• 30 Famous Brand Names You’re Probably Pronouncing Wrong
• Krispy Kreme reminds Brits how to properly pronounce name in UK
• You’ve been schooled: L’Occitane teaches US shoppers how to pronounce its name
• Name Your Brand with a Global Audience in Mind

The post FIR #306: Brand Name Pronunciation As A Marketing Ploy appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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A petulant venue owner is using facial recognition software to keep people with whom he has issues from entering his spaces — including a mom with a Girl Scout troop. Also in this monthly long-form episode of the “For Immediate Release” podcast, Neville and Shel discuss the value of virtual goods and whether brands should start taking them seriously; business schools are exploring the potential for teaching in the metaverse — especially classes about digital technology; it hasn’t been a great year for metaverse activations, but at least brands are learning; it has been a year since Lush closed its Instagram and Facebook accounts, which means it’s time to see how that decision turned out; and the better ChatGPT (the AI text-generating chatbot) gets, the more worried some people get about its impact on truth; and Dan York shares a year-end Tech Report with a range of updates including using WordPress for newsletters, WordPress’s State of the Word 2022, and Tumblr Live.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Are virtual goods the next big category for brands?
• Virtual goods are untapped opportunity for brand growth: study
• Metanomics: How Generation W Will Create A Virtual Market Worth US$5 Trillion
• Razorfish Finds 70% of Web3 Early Adopters Value Virtual Goods as Much, or More Than, Physical Products
• Business schools explore teaching in the metaverse
• Learning From Metaverse Missteps
• ‘People see why we came off now’: Lush has no regrets about quitting Instagram and Facebook
• Lush shows it’s time for an anti social media policy
• Madison Square Garden Uses Facial Recognition to Ban Its Owner’s Enemies
• Pouring Through a Crisis: How Budweiser Salvaged Its World Cup
• AI chatbot could spell doomsday for truth
• How to spot AI-generated text
• ‘The Return of the Crawling Evil,’ a Sci-Fi Story Created by Robots
• AI-Created Comic Could Be Deemed Ineligible for Copyright Protection
• Could an AI Chatbot Rewrite My Novel?
• This Bot Will Argue With Your Internet Provider For You and Get You a Cheaper Bill
• Steve Coulson Tweet on Schools Banning ChatGPT

Links from Dan York’s Report

• Automattic Promotes WordPress.com as a Platform for Email Newsletters (and provides improved support)
• State of the Word 2022: A Celebration of the Four Freedoms of Open Source
• State of the Word 2022 Recap
• How to buy a social network, with Tumblr CEO Matt Mullenweg
• Announcement: Introducing Tumblr Live
• Tumblr Live Overview & FAQ

The post FIR #305: We See You And You Can’t Come In appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Social media consultant Arik Hanson wrote recently in a LinkedIn article that companies should consider devoting some of their LinkedIn activities — 20 percent is the volume he suggests — to matters of interest to employees. That’s because data shows that 30 percent of a brand page’s engagement comes from the company’s employees. In this short mid-week episode of “For Immediate Release,” Neville and Shel discuss the opportunity for communicators to reach employees on LinkedIn, along with the challenges and possible pitfalls.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Are employees the forgotten audience on LinkedIn?
• 38 LinkedIn Statistics Marketers Should Know in 2021

The post FIR #304: Reaching Employees Through Social Media appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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As we prepare to take a brief pause for the holidays – and hope you do, too! – we’ll first take a moment to reflect on the challenges we faced this year: increasingly passionate employee bases; global, domestic, and online uncertainty; developing data and communication methods; and the many other factors that contributed to the year that was for internal communicators in 2022.

In looking back, we’re happy to continue our holiday tradition of a year-end roundup episode: one podcast with highlights from our 2022 conversations, in just a few minutes. Here are some of the top insights from this year’s slate of IC experts:

• Victoria Dew on her firm’s report, The New Rules of Employee Experience & Communications, and how internal communicators can turn listening into action and, with more in-depth insights from workers, better define the future of work.
• When news broke of the Russian invasion of Ukraine in March, Sharon and I surveyed the world’s reaction to the conflict and pondered a pressing question for internal communicators: “How can we help?”
• Mike Klein – our “welcome rebel” – on the importance of digging into data, progressing internal communications as a function, and closing the gap between what organizations say and what they actually do.
• Robin Fretwell Wilson on the challenges facing organizations in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn the 1973 Roe v Wade ruling that had legalized abortion.
• Andy Gilman on building organizational awareness and processes to combat cyber-attacks, the number one potential crisis facing most organizations.
• Caleb Gardner on his new book, No Point B, and how we can creatively develop solutions to the unique challenges of today’s transformational world.

Thanks for tuning in. Sharon and I wish all of our listeners happy holidays and can’t wait to speak with you in 2023!

The post EPISODE #66: OUR BEST IC EXPERT ADVICE FROM 2022 appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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One list includes 50 potential Twitter replacements — none of which will offer every one of Twitter’s features and none of which includes everyone you’re currently following on the bird site. How do you decide where to go when you conclude that maintaining your current Twitter activity is no longer feasible? Neville and Shel sort it out — with a focus on Mastodon — in this short mid-week episode of “For Immediate Release.”

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Mastodon (social network) — Wikipedia
• Mastodon Features That Twitter Should Steal (but Won’t)
• What Fleeing Twitter Users Will—and Won’t—Find on Mastodon
• The new face of Twitter verification (from Neville’s blog)
• Mastocomm (the communications instance Shel set up)
• Twitter suspends Mastodon account, prevents sharing links (response from Mastodon)
• Twitter Suddenly Reverses Course on ‘Policy’ That Banned Links to Competing Social Media Sites
• Shel’s Twitter exchange with Guy Kawasaki

The post FIR #303: The Quest for a Twitter Alternative appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Four IABC Fellows looked back on 2022, which was a consequential year for communicators, in this final Circle of Fellows of the year. The evolution of COVID-19 from pandemic to endemic led companies to bring employees back to the office, creating a need to communicate the new hybrid work reality (or, in some cases, why employers were insisting everyone come back full-time while others retained a remote work arrangement). “Quiet Quitting” became a topic of discussion as dissatisfied employees dialed back the effort they gave to the organizations. Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion remained an important topic. And there was no shortage of crises to occupy communicators’ time. The episode was live-streamed on December 15.

About the panel

Diane Gayeski is recognized as a thought leader in the practice and teaching of business communications. She is Professor of Strategic Communications at the Roy H. Park School of Communications at Ithaca College and provides consulting in communications analysis and strategies through Gayeski Analytics. Diane was recently inducted as an IABC Fellow; she’s been active in IABC for more than 30 years as a featured speaker and think-tank leader at the international conference, the author of 3 editions of the IABC-published book, Managing the Communications Function, and the advisor to Ithaca College’s student chapter. She’s led more than 300 client engagements for clients, including the US Navy, Bank of Montreal, Fiat, Sony, Abbott Diagnostics, and Borg-Warner, focusing on assessing and building the capacities and new technologies for workplace communications and learning teams.

In a career spanning roles as a Colonel in the Army, a Ph.D. in Organizational Communication (Fulbright Fellow) and Professor in a business school, a communication consultant, teacher, and trainer, Rajeev Kumar is an author and recognized speaker with a significant profile regionally, across many cultures and languages. Rajeev has a strong commitment to the profession and IABC, demonstrated through local, regional and international leadership roles. Rajeev’s work and references reinforce his commitment to the IABC values and he is a brand ambassador for the association in all aspects of his professional life. His co-authored book, “Outlast – How ESG can Benefit your Business” has been recently launched by Harper Collins.

Angela Sinickas is the founder of Sinickas Communications, which has worked with companies, organizations, and governments in 32 countries on six continents. Her clients include 25% of the Forbes Top 100 largest global companies. Before starting her own consulting firm, she held positions from editor to vice president in for-profit and government organizations and worked as a senior consultant and practice leader at Hewitt and Mercer. She is the author of a manual, How to Measure Your Communication Programs (now in its third edition), and chapters in several books. Her 150+ articles in professional journals can be found on her website,www.sinicom.com. Her work has been recognized with 21 international-level Gold Quill Awards from IABC, plus her firm was named IABC Boutique Agency of the Year in 2015. She holds a BS degree in Journalism from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and an MS in Leadership from Northeastern University.

Jennifer Wah, MC, ABC, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. The company operates as a strategic alliance of hand-picked professionals; all renowned for work in their areas of specialization. This approach means the right team is assembled for each project; no more, no less. With more than two dozen awards for strategic communications, writing and consulting, Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare to financial services to academia, and is passionate about the opportunity for stories to inspire actions and reactions within organizations.In 2013, Jennifer was named Associate Faculty of Royal Roads University, and in this capacity, continues to teach, coach and mentor others with an interest in business communication.

The post Circle of Fellows #87: Year-End Reflections appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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How much do you really know about your clients? Not the organization and its goals, but the people you actually work with on a daily basis.

In this episode, the co-hosts discuss Gini’s recent article with 11 questions you should ask your clients so that you know how they work and how you can best engage with them.

It’s all part of building stronger, more lasting relationships that will serve you well as you work to produce results and maintain the business.[read the transcript]The post ALP 175: Get to Know Your Clients Better appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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New York Times columnist and Nobel economics laureate Paul Krugman wrote recently that the crypto crash is far worse than even the direst descriptions and that it is proof that blockchain was never a viable technology. At the same time, Goldman Sachs Chairman and CEO David Solomon sees value in blockchain technology, but only if companies like his control it. The truth is, blockchain is thriving outside of speculative crypto investing. Neville and Shel explore blockchain’s future in this short midweek episode of “For Immediate Release.”

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s Asides blog is also available.

Links from this report:

• Opinion | Blockchains, What Are They Good For?
• Mattel Creations Launches Digital Collectibles Marketplace
• Argentina Organizes National Blockchain Committee to Implement State Level Strategy
• Goldman Sachs and the return of ‘Blockchain not Bitcoin’
• Blockchain Is Much More Than Crypto
• While Crypto Erupts In Chaos, Financial Firms Quietly Use Blockchain To Solve Real-Life Problems
• The Best Examples Of DAOs Everyone Should Know About
• IBM on Blockchain: Building trust and boosting the bottom line
• Advantages of Blockchain: 8 Worth Considering
• SEC Charges Samuel Bankman-Fried with Defrauding Investors in Crypto Asset Trading Platform FTX
• Starbucks details its blockchain-based loyalty platform and NFT community, Starbucks Odyssey

The post FIR #302: Blockchain’s Widely Exaggerated Demise appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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ChatGPT is the latest buzzworthy Artificial Intelligence tool. Released just this month by OpenAI, ChatGPT has stirred up a considerable amount of conversation, much of it about experiments people have conducted, while others now seriously question how much longer writers will be employable. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel look at ChatGPT from the communicator’s perspective.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, December 26.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly, request the credentials in our Facebook group, or email fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Shel has started a metaverse-focused Flipboard magazine. Neville’s “asides” blog, Outbox, is also available.

Links from this report:

• The Brilliance and Weirdness of ChatGPT (New York Times)
• I asked ChatGPT to write about itself in my style, so I didn’t have to
• Stephen Waddington on LinkedIn: ChatGPT on Public Relations Excellence
• I couldn’t resist asking ChatGPT how to play cricket. Now I get it!
• Explaining NFTs with ChatGPT

The post FIR #301: A Communicator’s Look at ChatGPT appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Join four IABC Fellows for a look back on 2022, which was a consequential year for communicators. The evolution of COVID-19 from pandemic to endemic led companies to bring employees back to the office, creating a need to communicate the new hybrid work reality (or, in some cases, why employers were insisting everyone come back full-time while others retained a remote work arrangement). “Quiet Quitting” became a topic of discussion as dissatisfied employees dialed back the effort they gave to the organizations. Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion remained an important topic. There were layoffs in the tech industry, along with other economic news that affected companies and employees. And there was no shortage of crises to occupy communicators’ time. These and other topics will be dissected in this special “Circle of Fellows,” scheduled for 11 a.m. ET on Thursday, December 15.

Those watching in real-time will be able to ask questions and share their observations.

About the panel

Diane Gayeski is recognized as a thought leader in the practice and teaching of business communications. She is Professor of Strategic Communications at the Roy H. Park School of Communications at Ithaca College and provides consulting in communications analysis and strategies through Gayeski Analytics. Diane was recently inducted as an IABC Fellow; she’s been active in IABC for more than 30 years as a featured speaker and think-tank leader at the international conference, the author of 3 editions of the IABC-published book, Managing the Communications Function, and the advisor to Ithaca College’s student chapter. She’s led more than 300 client engagements for clients, including the US Navy, Bank of Montreal, Fiat, Sony, Abbott Diagnostics, and Borg-Warner, focusing on assessing and building the capacities and new technologies for workplace communications and learning teams.

In a career spanning roles as a Colonel in the Army, a Ph.D. in Organizational Communication (Fulbright Fellow) and Professor in a business school, a communication consultant, teacher, and trainer, Rajeev Kumar is an author and recognized speaker with a significant profile regionally, across many cultures and languages. Rajeev has a strong commitment to the profession and IABC, demonstrated through local, regional and international leadership roles. Rajeev’s work and references reinforce his commitment to the IABC values and he is a brand ambassador for the association in all aspects of his professional life. His co-authored book, “Outlast – How ESG can Benefit your Business” has been recently launched by Harper Collins.

Angela Sinickas is the founder of Sinickas Communications, which has worked with companies, organizations, and governments in 32 countries on six continents. Her clients include 25% of the Forbes Top 100 largest global companies. Before starting her own consulting firm, she held positions from editor to vice president in for-profit and government organizations and worked as a senior consultant and practice leader at Hewitt and Mercer. She is the author of a manual, How to Measure Your Communication Programs (now in its third edition), and chapters in several books. Her 150+ articles in professional journals can be found on her website,www.sinicom.com. Her work has been recognized with 21 international-level Gold Quill Awards from IABC, plus her firm was named IABC Boutique Agency of the Year in 2015. She holds a BS degree in Journalism from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and an MS in Leadership from Northeastern University.

Jennifer Wah, MC, ABC, has worked with clients to deliver ideas, plans, words and results since she founded her storytelling and communications firm, Forwords Communication Inc., in 1997. The company operates as a strategic alliance of hand-picked professionals; all renowned for work in their areas of specialization. This approach means the right team is assembled for each project; no more, no less. With more than two dozen awards for strategic communications, writing and consulting, Jennifer is recognized as a storyteller and strategist. She has worked in industries from healthcare to financial services to academia, and is passionate about the opportunity for stories to inspire actions and reactions within organizations.In 2013, Jennifer was named Associate Faculty of Royal Roads University, and in this capacity, continues to teach, coach and mentor others with an interest in business communication.

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What is it they say about “the best laid plans?”

In this episode of the EE Voice podcast, we are joined by Caleb Gardner to discuss his new book – No Point B – and how leaders must embrace change and use effective communication in the face of developing technology, social activism, and other key elements in today’s tranformational world.

“All leadership has to be change leadership,” Caleb told us. “Because we just have so much inbound, so much new data, so much going on in the world that we’re going to have to be constantly asking our people to think differently — and we’re not prepared to ask them to have that level of mental flexibility.”

The co-founder of management consulting firm 18 Coffees and a former strategist for the Obama White House, Caleb calls upon his experience to examine how leaders can look to their workforces to teach them how to embrace change, meet it head on and give their companies and communities a better future.

Despite all the changes, Caleb remains hopeful, especially when it comes to internal communications influence on effective change management: “If we do this together, we’re going to collectively make this big impact. And people really believe it… and it can be incredibly powerful.”

For more on Caleb, No Point B, and his other work, head to https://calebgardner.com/.

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In New York, pay transparency is required by law. It will also be a requirement in California after January 1. There's a lot of good that can come from pay transparency, but for organizations with cultures unready for it, the consequences could be dire. Are companies enlisting their internal communicators to help lay the groundwork for this level of disclosure?
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We all have companies and entrepreneurs that we look up to, but that doesn't mean that we should aspire to be just like them.
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Despite the forecasts of some pundits, it is still too early to predict Twitter's complete collapse. Still, it is not outside the realm of possibility. (Since we recorded this episode on Saturday, November 19, CBS has halted its activity on Twitter, blaming Elon Musk's "turbulent and potentially devastating moves following his takeover of the company," according to Variety. It is worth considering the consequences of Twitter's demise. How big a loss to society at large would it be? We can take that idea one step further. With Facebook experiencing its own declines and Gen Z demonstrating a preference for smaller social networks over broadcast-style social media, what would happen if social media completely faded into the background? Also in the November episode of The Hobson and Holtz Report:

• Thousands of Twitter users are migrating to Mastodon, a Twitter-like interface with some important differences, the key being that it is not owned by a single entity. Instead, it is a federation of Mastodon "instances" (including one Shel has launched for communicators). The fediverse could be awesome, one report suggests, assuming we don't screw it up -- and average users are able to figure it out.
• Gallup has released a study on how connected people feel to others, whether it's in person or online. It's a field of study that has gotten scant attention in the past and the results could be useful to marketers.
• There's some nation-building going on in the metaverse, with one Pacific island country building a digital twin to preserve its heritage as global warming raises sea levels, threatening to completely submerge it. Another country -- a physical entity not yet recognized by the global community of nations -- is working with an architectural firm to build a metaverse version that it hopes will be the primary place its citizens interact.
• Whether you believe it is ethical or not, there is a fair amount of ghostwriting going on in the social media space, notably with ghostwriters cranking out LinkedIn thought leadership posts for executives. But there's more than that, with one social media ghostwriter, for example, earning close to $200,000 so far this year writing mainly Twitter DMs for employees. We'll dive into this emerging cottage industry.
• Dan York's Tech Report is a buffet of topics this month, ranging from the fate of Twitter Spaces to Walmart's Augmented Reality effort, and from enhancements to TikTok Live to Google's "Live View in Maps."

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Is your trademark your company’s brand? Your logo? Or is your brand what your customers say about you when you’re not in the room? What’s a brand promise and how do you develop one that everyone can buy into? How do you build the brand internally so every employee projects it externally? What’s the communicator’s role in protecting the brand? And what do you do when your company fails to live up to it?
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While things are not looking good at Twitter, it is not yet time to characterize it as the social network's death spiral. Still, speculation is fun (and inevitable), and one of the prospects about which some people are speculating is the impact a Twitterless world will have on social listening activities. Neville and Shel explore the possibility -- along with some other potential fallout should Twitter shut down -- in this short midweek episode of "For Immediate Release."
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The Scottish city of Stirling is investing in the creation of Augmented Reality (AR) layers throughout the city, available on a free dedicated app, to become what they claim is "the first augmented reality city."
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What should agencies advise clients with regard to Twitter today? It has obviously been a very turbulent couple of weeks since Elon Musk took over, but what does that mean for communicators?
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This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Sam Liebowitz.
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The MuckRack's 2022 State of PR survey is out and Gini Dietrich is jumping in to explore the findings.

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Twitter and Stripe both laid off employees last week. The contrast between how these layoffs were conducted is striking. One CEO went to great lengths to ensure the employees remaining post-layoff would feel the least amount of survivor's guilt and be ready to move forward. The other didn't seem to care how survivors felt. Neville and Shel examine these approaches and some of the other fallout from Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter in this short midweek episode of "For Immediate Release."
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Neville attended NFT.London, the UK version of the NFT.NYC, which has been held since February 2019. There, he attended sessions that covered various topics, but he was particularly struck by those addressing the value-add potential of NFTs as well as their community-building characteristics. He reports from a semi-quiet corner of the conference in this short mid-week episode.
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Neville attended NFT.London, the UK version of the NFT.NYC, which has been held since February 2019. There, he attended sessions that covered various topics, but he was particularly struck by those addressing the value-add potential of NFTs as well as their community-building characteristics. He reports from a semi-quiet corner of the conference in this short mid-week episode.
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Is your trademark your company's brand? Your logo? Or is your brand what your customers say about you when you're not in the room? What's a brand promise and how do you develop one that everyone can buy into? How do you build the brand internally so every employee projects it externally? What's the communicator's role in protecting the brand? And what do you do when your company fails to live up to it?

Four IABC Fellows will share their deep experience with brands and branding in the next "Circle of Fellows" episode, which will be broadcast live at 4 p.m. ET on Thursday, November 17. You will be able to ask questions and share your own experiences in real-time during the conversation or watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast later when it's more convenient for you.
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Is your trademark your company's brand? Your logo? Or is your brand what your customers say about you when you're not in the room? What's a brand promise and how do you develop one that everyone can buy into? How do you build the brand internally so every employee projects it externally? What's the communicator's role in protecting the brand? And what do you do when your company fails to live up to it?

Four IABC Fellows will share their deep experience with brands and branding in the next "Circle of Fellows" episode, which will be broadcast live at 4 p.m. ET on Thursday, November 17. You will be able to ask questions and share your own experiences in real-time during the conversation or watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast later when it's more convenient for you.
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It's not exactly a news flash that Elon Musk now owns Twitter (Chief Twit, he calls himself). Does he know what he's gotten himself into? It's doubtful, according to much of the evidence we've seen so far, in addition to some stinging commentary.
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It's not exactly a news flash that Elon Musk now owns Twitter (Chief Twit, he calls himself). Does he know what he's gotten himself into? It's doubtful, according to much of the evidence we've seen so far, in addition to some stinging commentary.
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For virtually all of its 22 years, Wikipedia has confined its technology to the wiki, which was already nearly 10 years old when the online encyclopedia was introduced. But some big changes are in store, including the use of machine learning, all in service of enticing more people to become editors.
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For virtually all of its 22 years, Wikipedia has confined its technology to the wiki, which was already nearly 10 years old when the online encyclopedia was introduced. But some big changes are in store, including the use of machine learning, all in service of enticing more people to become editors.
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To hear the media talk about it, NFTs are overpriced works of digital art on which a lot of gullible people will lose bundles of money. In fact, NFTs have utility far being investments, and savvy marketers are figuring it out, right down to local car washes. Neville and Shel share a handful of stories about such applications in this short midweek episode.
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To hear the media talk about it, NFTs are overpriced works of digital art on which a lot of gullible people will lose bundles of money. In fact, NFTs have utility far being investments, and savvy marketers are figuring it out, right down to local car washes. Neville and Shel share a handful of stories about such applications in this short midweek episode.
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As small agencies grow, individual team members usually begin to take on direct reports — often for the first time in their careers.
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As small agencies grow, individual team members usually begin to take on direct reports — often for the first time in their careers.
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You have gained experience as a communicator in an organization. Now, you want to establish a consulting practice. You have questions. Do you focus on a niche or will you be a generalist? Will you remain independent or hire staff? How do you build your business? What should you charge? Four IABC Fellows with decades of experience as communication consultants shared their insights and experience in episode 85 of “Circle of Fellows,” IABC’s monthly broadcast/panel discussion.
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You have gained experience as a communicator in an organization. Now, you want to establish a consulting practice. You have questions. Do you focus on a niche or will you be a generalist? Will you remain independent or hire staff? How do you build your business? What should you charge? Four IABC Fellows with decades of experience as communication consultants shared their insights and experience in episode 85 of “Circle of Fellows,” IABC’s monthly broadcast/panel discussion.
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AI tools that turn text prompts into images, video, and music are definitely cool, but they get a boost in utility when incorporated into a larger tool designed for a specific purpose. Omneky is one such tool, designed to improve the effectiveness of your social media ads. One element: DALL-E 2 is baked into the software, helping you create images that align with the software's assessment of your current and previous ads.
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AI tools that turn text prompts into images, video, and music are definitely cool, but they get a boost in utility when incorporated into a larger tool designed for a specific purpose. Omneky is one such tool, designed to improve the effectiveness of your social media ads. One element: DALL-E 2 is baked into the software, helping you create images that align with the software's assessment of your current and previous ads.
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The first graphic format for the web to gain widespread adoption was the GIF. Even the advent of better formats replaced it for graphical display, it gained new strength through animation; what was once called an "animated GIF" became just a GIF. But today, for multiple reasons, the end appears nigh for all but the most die-hard fans. This short midweek episode is an homage to the GIF.
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The first graphic format for the web to gain widespread adoption was the GIF. Even the advent of better formats replaced it for graphical display, it gained new strength through animation; what was once called an "animated GIF" became just a GIF. But today, for multiple reasons, the end appears nigh for all but the most die-hard fans. This short midweek episode is an homage to the GIF.
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Chip and Gini share some of their experiences in working internationally as an agency, including things that you should consider before you take the leap and the benefits of doing so.
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Chip and Gini share some of their experiences in working internationally as an agency, including things that you should consider before you take the leap and the benefits of doing so.
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October 11, 2022, was not your typical day at the UK House of Lords, where Ai-Da, a humanoid robot artist, delivered testimony in response to questions posed by peers. The testimony came as some of Ai-Da's original artwork was displayed in a museum. In her answers, Ai-Da was candid about AI's threat to human artists but was also realistic about the role technology has always played in art. In this short mid-week episode, Neville and Shel review the testimony and explore some of the issues Ai-Da raises.
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October 11, 2022, was not your typical day at the UK House of Lords, where Ai-Da, a humanoid robot artist, delivered testimony in response to questions posed by peers. The testimony came as some of Ai-Da's original artwork was displayed in a museum. In her answers, Ai-Da was candid about AI's threat to human artists but was also realistic about the role technology has always played in art. In this short mid-week episode, Neville and Shel review the testimony and explore some of the issues Ai-Da raises.
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In this episode, Chip and Gini explore the real cause of the revenue roller-coaster and what agency owners can (and should) do about it.
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In this episode, Chip and Gini explore the real cause of the revenue roller-coaster and what agency owners can (and should) do about it.
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Some companies were experimenting with internal podcasts -- for employees only -- before companies sent employees home to work remotely as the COVID-19 pandemic spread. Faced with reaching and engaging employees who now never interacted face-to-face with their colleagues elevated the value of a podcast, which could establish a personal connection. At the same time, podcasting had gone mainstream, making more employees receptive to listening to one from their employer. In this short midweek episode, Neville and Shel look at some of the companies that have adopted internal podcasting and how they plan to evolve them in the new post-pandemic world of work.
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We read everywhere about increased productivity resulting from the remote work the pandemic forced upon companies. In fact, that increased productivity is leading several companies to adopt remote or hybrid work as the new status quo. But research conducted by Microsoft finds that not everyone agrees with the assessment. Managers are not on board with the notion that remote work has led to greater productivity, and the gap between what managers believe and employee perspectives is considerable.
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If you have listened to Chip and Gini’s advice in the past, you are carefully tracking your team’s time to understand how much it costs you to serve your clients.
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You have gained experience as a communicator in an organization. Now, you want to establish a consulting practice. You have questions. Do you focus on a niche or will you be a generalist? Will you remain independent or hire staff? How do you build your business? What should you charge? Four IABC Fellows with decades of experience as communication consultants will answer your questions in episode 85 of "Circle of Fellows," IABC's monthly broadcast/panel discussion.
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You have a business initiative, an organizational change, a new value proposition. Success depends on getting employees aligned around the vision and the path to get there. Could small group conversations be the means of achieving that alignment? A new study suggests it's at least worth a shot.
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Does your agency need a fractional CFO, COO, or head of HR?
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From experimentation, ideation, and storyboarding to producing the actual images to be used in an ad, advertising agency creatives are finding Artificial Intelligence image generators like DALL-E, Midjourney, and Stable Diffusion instantly useful, saving time and money without sacrificing the end results. Does this spell the end of the graphic arts business?
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From experimentation, ideation, and storyboarding to producing the actual images to be used in an ad, advertising agency creatives are finding Artificial Intelligence image generators like DALL-E, Midjourney, and Stable Diffusion instantly useful, saving time and money without sacrificing the end results. Does this spell the end of the graphic arts business?
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In this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip and Gini discuss some of the more popular "single number" metrics that some advocate — and then explain why they may not be the best for your purposes.
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In this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip and Gini discuss some of the more popular "single number" metrics that some advocate — and then explain why they may not be the best for your purposes.
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Neville and Shel were together in person to record this episode, which focuses exclusively on leadership communication. The recording happened on Neville's dining room table as Shel and his wife were on a two-week vacation in England and Ireland.
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Neville and Shel were together in person to record this episode, which focuses exclusively on leadership communication. The recording happened on Neville's dining room table as Shel and his wife were on a two-week vacation in England and Ireland.
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How should you handle it when clients ignore your recommended course of action? When should you push back — and how should you do it?
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How should you handle it when clients ignore your recommended course of action? When should you push back — and how should you do it?
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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the merits of some of these arguments and explain how agency leaders can think about the right mix of contractors and employees in their own businesses.
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In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss the merits of some of these arguments and explain how agency leaders can think about the right mix of contractors and employees in their own businesses.
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How should you handle it when one of your agency's employees — or prospective new hires — comes to you and asks you to match another offer?
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How should you handle it when one of your agency's employees — or prospective new hires — comes to you and asks you to match another offer?
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Do you know what your clients really value from their relationship with your agency? Often we know that we are creating real value for a client, but it isn’t always aligned with the value that they see.
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Do you know what your clients really value from their relationship with your agency? Often we know that we are creating real value for a client, but it isn’t always aligned with the value that they see.
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In this episode, Chip and Gini share their perspectives, including what has gone wrong for them in the past — and how you can make sure that you are communicating effectively with your team, clients, and prospects during turbulent times.
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In this episode, Chip and Gini share their perspectives, including what has gone wrong for them in the past — and how you can make sure that you are communicating effectively with your team, clients, and prospects during turbulent times.
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This episode will help you to build or improve your own framework for reporting that should lead to better results, happier clients, and improved retention.
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In this second part of a two-part series, Zach Hyder explains what it has been like to transition from agency coach to president of the agency founded by Ward Hubbell.
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In this episode, Chip and Gini explore how agencies should approach this question, both when developing their own strategies for clients as well as for helping to guide the client on their overall communications planning.
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In this episode, Hubbell Communications founder Ward Hubbell talks about the agency he founded, and how he decided to approach the transition when he no longer wanted to manage the business day-to-day.
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A recent post by a member of the Spin Sucks Community raised the topic of calculating the cost of winning new clients — and determining how to account for that expense properly.
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Many agencies got started when their owners were laid off from their full-time jobs.
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A lot of the communication with customers for which businesses once used email has transitioned to text messaging -- along with communication among friends, families, and pretty much everyone. To some extent, that even includes employee-to-employee communication. Whether it's SMS messaging or a messaging app like WhatsApp, Signal, or Telegram, people increasingly prefer the functionality and speed of response with text messages. Email isn't going anywhere but its uses may be diminishing.
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Preparing for crises is more important for organizations than ever. A crisis can erupt from more places, more quickly, and spread faster than ever before -- and the consequences can be direr. In this live panel discussion, four IABC Fellows will explore the state of crisis communication and offer advice for preparing to address a crisis before it happens, as well as how to manage your communication efforts most effectively during a crisis.

Using the chat feature in YouTube Live, you will be able to ask questions and share your comments and observations in real-time. The conversation will be available afterward as both a video replay and an audio podcast. (Subscribe to get the podcast feed.)

The discussion will begin at 11 a.m. ET on Thursday, September 18. Brad Whitworth, a member of the panel, will also serve as the session moderator.
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Advertising on the Web is two-dimensional, with a consumer on the outside looking in. In the Metaverse, consumers will be active participants in virtual worlds, participating directly with virtual objects and one another. That opens the door for entirely new forms of advertising. In this short mid-week episode, Neville and Shel discuss what advertising might look like in virtual worlds and some of the technical, ethical, and legal challenges that organizations will face selling their wares to denizens of these immersive spaces.
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"Quiet quitting" is all over TikTok, with mostly Gen Zers talking about their disdain for going "above and beyond" at work. Is this really anything new, or is it just the first time a generation has used a label to share their feelings online? Or, as some suggest, is it that most Gen Zers entered the workforce during the pandemic when the boundaries between work and life were not clear and now that companies are getting back to what executives perceive as normal, they don't agree with the expectations the company has of them? Is this even confined to Gen Z? Neville and Shel look at "quiet quitting" in today's short mid-week episode.
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According to a new PwC survey of 1,000 senior U.S. business leaders from across industry sectors, businesses have bought into the inevitability and utility of the metaverse. The study also surveyed 5,000 U.S. consumers who are less aware and enthusiastic than executives are. Also in this monthly long-form episode of "For Immediate Release":

• Gartner has released ins 2022 Hype Cycle for Emerging Technologies.
• Consumer trend experts anticipate the impact web3 will have on consumer trends.
• Ukraine has perfect the art of advertising in support of its resistance to Russia's invasion.
• Each quarter, Microsoft adjusts the language it uses to advise the investment world of its ambitions.
• One CEO who had to lay off staff took to LinkedIn to explain how hard it was on him, including a selfie of him weeping over it. Was it effective?

In his Tech Report, Dan York recounts his experience with Reddit's new social audio tool, looks at "snipping," a new Twitter Spaces feature, and explains a Google update designed to elevate "helpful content."
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In July, four IABC Fellows gathered to discuss what communication is…and isn’t. That conversation will continue at noon EDT on Thursday, August 18.

Too often, communicators are called upon to engage in activities some might consider communication. It may even qualify as communication under some definitions. But in the business world, simply distributing a routine notice is far from communication. It may be messaging, but even that is questionable if nobody reads it. Conversely, modifying a company process that is sending the wrong message to employees may not strike an executive as a means of communication — but it is.

The August episode of "Circle of Fellows" features three additional Fellows -- and one returning from the July show -- continuing the discussion.
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As news media outlets that traffic in the written word -- print and online -- economic pressures have led to more repurposed content and less original material. What impact does this have on trust in these media sources, and is there a role businesses and their communication teams can play?
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More and more people are experimenting with a growing collection of Artificial Intelligence-based graphics tools. Some of these tools produce stunning images in a variety of artistic styles, leading some to wonder if art directors will generate their own images rather than continue to pay for graphic design services. Neville and Shel discuss the possibilities in this short mid-week episode.
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Remember Microsoft Tay? The 2016 Twitter chatbot suffered from a concerted effort to teach it all manner of vile things, prompting Microsoft to withdraw the service and apologize. That experience is top of mind for pretty much everyone talking about Meta's new chatbot, now available in public testing in the U.S. The developers behind BlenderBot 3 insist that they, too, had the Tay experiment in mind when they developed the process for teaching this new chatbot to behave. In fact, the beta is designed so people can report when it says something inappropriate that it may have learned from another user. That information is used to teach it what is not appropriate. Will it work?
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Brands have been tripping over themselves to jump on the Web3/metaverse/NFT bandwagon, but few have articulated a strategic and comprehensive approach at the level Starbucks has. In this short mid-week FIR episode, Neville and Shel look at how Starbucks plans to build loyalty and community using these emerging tools, along with some other organizations that are starting to give Web3 similarly serious looks.
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According to one definition, unbranded content "isn’t specifically about your company but is relevant to your industry or product in some way." There are unbranded videos like this one from WREN, an online clothing retailer. Released in 2014, it's a film in which the filmmakers asked 20 couples who had never met to kiss. The only reference to WREN is at the very beginning of the video, "WREN Presents." There isn't even a link to the retailer in the film or on its YouTube page.

And there are entire unbranded websites. We even interviewed Ike Pigott from Alabama Power about Alabama News Center, where Alabama Power's involvement is barely noticeable.

There are sound reasons for brands to produce unbranded content. From the perspective of the audience reading or viewing the content, is it underhanded? A failure to disclose? Does it matter? Neville and Shel have differing points of view in this short mid-week episode of For Immediate Release.
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In July, four IABC Fellows gathered to discuss what communication is...and isn't. That conversation will continue at noon EDT on Thursday, August 18.

Too often, communicators are called upon to engage in activities some might consider communication. It may even qualify as communication under some definitions. But in the business world, simply distributing a routine notice is far from communication. It may be messaging, but even that is questionable if nobody reads it. Conversely, modifying a company process that is sending the wrong message to employees may not strike an executive as a means of communication -- but it is.

Join us for this intriguing conversation and share your own thoughts, observations, experiences, and questions in real-time. If you are unable to participate during the live stream, you will be able to watch the video replay or listen to the audio podcast.
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If you peruse search results for "the metaverse," it will seem like half the content you find focuses on defining it. At Nvidia, executive Richard Kerris thinks it's pretty easy to define. "The metaverse is not a place," he says. "It's the network for the next version of the Web." Neville and Shel explore that definition and related developments in this short midweek FIR episode.
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Research conducted by Google found that nearly 40 percent of Gen Z are using Tik Tok and Instagram for search instead of Google. It's a real-world example of significant shifts exhibited by this group of 10-to-22-year-olds. By 2025, they will represent 30 percent of the workforce and be a considerable presence in the consumer marketplace.
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Ask leaders what “communication” is and you are likely to hear a wide range of answers, especially when it comes to the role of a company communication function. Some of those answers may be accurate, others not so much. Too often, leaders see communication as a one-way messaging function, for example. In the first of this two-part discussion, four IABC Fellows explored exactly what communication is…and isn’t. The conversation took place on Thursday, July 21. (The second installment, with another quartet of IABC Fellows, is set for August 18.)
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A lot is fueling the debate over whether workers should be able to continue working remotely, at least some of the time, or get themselves back to the office. The debate pits workers against leaders, and the assumption is that it's just a matter of how each side perceives what's best. But anthropologists see another factor at play: most leaders come from a different generation than those employees who want remote or hybrid work to become the new normal.
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Topics up for discussion in the monthly long-form episode include the following:L

• Are holograms about to go mainstream?
• There is outrage over revelations of massive wrongdoing by Uber. Will everyone keep riding them anyway?
• Uses of NFTs are expanding far beyond collectible artwork for investment purposes.
• How Wikipedia remediated dozens of fake articles could be a lesson for the rest of the world.
• Bad guys are extorting gift cards in exchange for removing negative online reviews.

Dan York's report explores NFT adoption by Reddit and Snap; Instagram's move to let creators confine posts to subscribers; Facebook's test of multiple profiles; Twitter's latest innovations; and mobile live-streaming with Starlink.
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Soon golfers and fans of the sport will be able to interact one-on-one with the legendary Golden Bear, Jack Nicklaus. Well, not Nicklaus himself, but his digital twin. Nicklaus spent hours in a studio having every facial expression and gesture recorded. The first digital twin will be of his 37-year-old self, but more are planned. And rest assured, Nicklaus won't be the last celebrity to make himself "available" as a digital twin in the online world. And there's more to digital twins than celebrities.
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While some assume NFTs are on their way out as the value of digital artwork has plummeted, brick-and-mortar retailers are increasingly finding ways to offer the ability to mint NFTs right in their stores. In this episode, Neville and Shel look at some of the latest developments in the evolution of collectible NFTs.
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For years, Ernst & Young auditors have been cheating on an ethics test required for them to retain their Certified Public Accountant status. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has levied a record $100 million fine, both for the cheating and the Big Four accounting firm's failure to assist in the SEC's investigation. Now that it has all gone public, what can E&Y do to rebuild trust among its clients and the public? Neville and Shel share what reputation experts have to say along with their own recommendations.
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Big Four accounting firm KPMG has committed $30 million to the metaverse in order to establish an "innovation hub" and train employees so they will be prepared to work with clients as the metaverse becomes a more common interface. Like many organizations, KPMG is citing breathtaking figures as it predicts the metaverse's eventual value. Neville and Shel discuss KPMG's move, various metaverse valuations, and other metaverse-related news and information in this FIR short.
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Ask leaders what "communication" is and you are likely to hear a wide range of answers, especially when it comes to the role of a company communication function. Some of those answers may be accurate, others not so much. Too often, leaders see communication as a one-way messaging function, for example. In the first of this two-part discussion, four IABC Fellows will explore exactly what communication is...and isn't.
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As the economy cooks, inflation ratchets up, and interest rates rise, some companies are faced with laying off staff. As we have moved to remote and hybrid work, how those layoffs are handled is changing. But is it ever a good idea to lay someone off over Zoom or Teams? And if so, are there good and bad ways to go about it?
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On June 24, 2022, the Supreme Court overturned the 1973 Roe v Wade ruling that had legalized abortion nationwide.

Immediately following the announcement, several companies – including Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Lyft, Dick’s Sporting Goods and JPMorgan Chase – announced that they were offering to cover travel costs for employees who must travel out of state for abortions. This clearly has implications for communicators who are facing the need to respond to their internal and external audiences.

We reached out to Robin Fretwell Wilson, a law professor at the University of Illinois and an expert on healthcare law. (You can read Robin’s full impressive bio here.)

“There’s a bramble of issues in [any] direction that you move,” says Robin.

Among the questions we discussed on this episode:

• Possible legal implications for companies who are reimbursing travel costs for employees who must leave their home states for abortions
• How the ruling could set up a type of “arms race” between the red and blue states
• What key messages communicators should keep in mind when advising their executives
• Several legal issues that may arise down the road – and companies and communicators may not have even yet considered

Send this episode over to your legal partner – and begin that scenario planning. More is clearly to come on this issue.

Other resources:

• Read the Reuters article, “Legal clashes await U.S. companies covering workers’ abortion costs,” where Robin was interviewed.
• Business Insider is keeping an updated list of company reactions to the ruling.
• The Society of Human Resources has pulled together a comprehensive resource on navigating Roe v Wade in the Workplace

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We speak to Chris Matty, the co-founder and Chief Revenue Officer at Versium, Inc. about the demise of web tracking cookies and what will replace this technology in the future.
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From the title of this episode, you might think we were talking about company sources going on background when speaking to a reporter. (Quick advice: Don't. Either be on the record or don't talk to a journalist.) But that's not what this episode is about. Instead, we're talking about Zoom backgrounds (or Teams, or Skype, or Webex, or Google Meet, or whatever). With flexible work the order of the day in many organizations, is it time to give serious consideration to what people see behind you in a call? There's a book (that's right, an entire book) on the subject. We cover it in 15 minutes.
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In the monthly long-form episode for June, Neville and Shel consider a Google employee's claim that the company's AI has become sentient, the reactions the claim has provoked, and what it might mean for business communicators. Also in this episode:

• Is being in the office really the only way for employees who don't normally work together to encounter one another?
• The tangled truth about NFTs and copyright
• Now that the metaverse is gaining momentum, it's time to consider how to market and communicate there
• Should you spend any more time developing your personal brand?
• The state of PR is changing

In his tech report, Dan York talks about countries that want to change the Internet from a "permissionless" place to one where you have to pay for access to users.
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The post FIR #263: It’s Alive! (AI, That Is. Or Is It?) appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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In this special episode of “Circle of Fellows,” meet the three IABC leaders who have been named Fellows for 2022 (and who will be formally inducted during the IABC World Conference in New York later this month). This conversation with Zora Artis, Sue Heuman, and Robin McCasland included their professional journeys and their core philosophies and beliefs about organizational communication. The conversation was moderated by Shel Holtz.
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In this episode of Chats with Chip, Dan Englander of Sales Schema explains how agencies can develop these relationships at scale — even with limited resources.
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In the tech industry, there's a trend: Rescinding offer letters as a cost-cutting measure. In this short episode of "For Immediate Release," Neville and Shel explore the PR and internal comms repercussions of these moves.
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The post FIR #262: You’re Hired! Or Not… appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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We’re back after a brief hiatus and are ecstatic to be joined by author, internal communications leader, and our "welcome rebel” Mike Klein.

Principal of Changing the Terms and Senior Strategic Advisor for Sparrow Connected, Mike has made it his personal mission to challenge the status quo and advance the effectiveness of internal communications. His recently published e-book, “Employee Engagement or BUSINESS IMPACT? It's Time To Choose,” takes on the current state of employee engagement and identifies six levers to engage better performance.
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This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Zachariah Moreno.
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This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Marius Bill.
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What changes in a company when women enter top-level positions? Gini Dietrich dives into this question on this week’s episode of Spin Sucks. 

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As it faced a unionization effort, Tesla contracted with a PR agency (where one of its communication directors once worked in an executive capacity) to spy on employees, including those in a semi-private Facebook group, an activity one academic found unethical. While there is nothing wrong with a company monitoring employees' online activities, there are lines that should not be crossed. Was one of those lines crossed in this case?
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This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Valerie Sheppard.
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We all know that leaders should strive for authenticity. What does that mean, exactly? It's easy to say authenticity is being who you are, but when you're meeting with a department that is struggling to succeed, are you the person who rocks out at concerts? The one who coos little nothings in the ear of your significant other? There's more to authenticity than just being genuine. Communicators need to understand the nuances since most leaders don't have the time for a graduate-level course on the subject.
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In this special episode of "Circle of Fellows," you will meet the three IABC leaders who have been named Fellows for 2022 (and who will be formally inducted during the IABC World Conference in New York ater this month). You will have the opportunity to ask questions and share observations as Zora Artis, Sue Heuman, and Robin McCasland share their professional journeys and discuss their core philosophies and beliefs about organizational communication. The conversation, moderated by Shel Holtz, will be available as a video replay and an audio podcast.

The discussion is set for 7 p.m. EDT on Thursday, June 16, 2022.
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At the end of the day, people want to have a purpose. Gini Dietrich explores how to make employees feel valued and ways to deliver positive feedback as well as constructive feedback, when necessary.

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In this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip and Gini pick up a question from the Spin Sucks Community to dive into this topic.
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A new mid-year Trust Barometer is out from Edelman, and the news is excellent for most things Western (and bad for all things autocratic). Who in the West didn't fare well? Companies that have opted to continue doing business in Russia.
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The post FIR #259: Trust Rises in Companies That Left Russia appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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What should communicators be doing now with a recession likely around the corner? Gini Dietrich shares seven tips to handle it in stride. 

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Communicators worldwide covet a seat at the leadership table (wherever that mythical table may be). But if executives don't even want you to brief them on issues that matter to them, that seat will never materialize. In this FIR podcast short, Neville and Shel discuss how to give an effective executive briefing -- and get one step closer to that seat.
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In this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip and Gini look at both the substance and delivery method to help you better understand what works — and what doesn't.
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For the past several years, momentum has been building as more and more organizations -- recognizing public expectations that they take steps to address social and environmental issues in the wake of declining trust in other institutions -- articulate strong positions on issues ranging from climate change to transgender rights. Then came the leak of the U.S. Supreme Court's abortion decision, indicating the Court will overturn 50 years of precedent with Roe v. Wade. The response from the corporate world has been tepid. In this monthly long-form episode, Neville and Shel look at the few organizations that have spoken out and how some are taking internal measures rather than public-facing positions, while most remain silent.

As if that's not enough heavy discussion, we also spend time looking at the culpability of social media that provide access to live-streamed footage of hatred-motivated mass shootings, from Christchurch to Buffalo.

Also in this episode:

• A Facebook executive has released an 8,000-word analysis of the metaverse, arguing that Meta can't own it, and nor can anyone else
• The hybrid work model that many companies have adopted in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic means an end to many employees being forced to participate in mandatory "fun" activities. Is that a good thing?
• New research finds that employees are experiencing notification fatigue, and it's worse than Zoom fatigue or email fatigue
• There's a correlation between a CEO's reputation and that of the brands in their companies
• Dan York's report focuses on TikTok, including a spate of new features and a look at some of the video-sharing app's plans

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With today’s online discussions, forums, and social media platforms, communication professionals easily delve into what key stakeholders know-feel-do about something now. This enables comms pros to develop more efficient and effective plans to transform what stakeholders’ know-feel-do to achieve organizational goal(s) and objectives.

Four IABC Fellows dove into research and measurement in the next Circle of Fellows, a monthly live broadcast featuring IABC Fellows in conversation about a timely communication topic.
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The COVID-19 pandemic created a host of new communication pressures on company leaders, so they, in turn, leaned on their communicators, who evidently came through for them in a big way. The result: increased influence in the C-suite, according to a Gartner survey. Neville and Shel have questions.
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Google used a short video to tease a feature for its Augmented Reality (AR) glasses that could be AR's killer app. They don't look bad, either.
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In this episode of the Chats with Chip Podcast, Noel Andrews of JobRack explains how talent from Eastern Europe and other parts of the world can supplement your workforce.
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Search "blockchain" and you're sure to find plenty of commentaries that proclaim the core Web3 technology doomed. It can never work, they say, and they outline a broad range of reasons. Yet blockchain is already managing processes in the background -- some of which you may already be using in your own home. Neville and Shel explore some of the ways blockchain-based technologies are becoming everyday tools and what this means for communicators.
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Matthew Rechs confesses that he was not a great manager at first but he learned some fundamental rules that will benefit anyone who hopes to be more than an old-school boss. For internal communicators, Rechs' "promises" -- first published as a series of tweets -- can serve as the foundation for a targeted effort to elevate effective management in your organization.
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This episode features #ThoughtLeader and #Expert Susan Drumm.
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Earned media efforts are becoming less effective with journalists but even more important with executives. What is one to do? Gini Dietrich has four tips for the perfect pitch in 2022.

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POAPs are getting to be a big deal, with Warner Music inking a deal with the organization behind them. Never heard of POAP? It's the Proof of Attendance Protocol, used to mint a special kind of NFT that serves as proof you were there, whether it's a concert, a conference, or some other kind of event or activity. Their use by businesses is inevitable. Even internally, companies can award POAPs to employees who attend the town hall, for example, some of which could wind up being highly coveted. In this episode, Neville and Shel break down POAPs and their potential for organizations, especially those looking to engage Gen Z-aged individuals.
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With today’s online discussions, forums, and social media platforms, communication professionals easily delve into what key stakeholders know-feel-do about something now. This enables comms pros to develop more efficient and effective plans to transform what stakeholders’ know-feel-do to achieve organizational goal(s) and objectives. Four IABC Fellows will dive into research and measurement in the next... Continue Reading →

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Chip and Gini discuss how you should think about agency size — and why you shouldn't be looking for a secret formula to give you the answer.
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Nissan and Toyota are entering the metaverse, one with a focus on employees and the other targeting consumers. They join some other auto manufacturers that have already established a metaverse presence. Fidelity Investments is also setting up shop, as is Vanity Fair. And these are a drop in the bucket among the businesses staking metaverse claims.
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Most agency owners didn’t go to school to learn about business management and financial reporting. For many, it is a necessary evil that comes along with being able to do the creative work that they enjoy.

In this episode of Chats with Chip, Jon Morris of Ramsay Innovations shares his perspective as a former agency owner turned agency financial advisor. He explains the key reports that agencies should be paying attention to, as well as why they matter to the future success of the business.

Rather than treating finance as something that must be done, Chip and Jon discuss why agency owners should turn to the numbers for meaningful advice on the business decisions that they make every day — from defining an ideal client to plotting the path to expansion.

[read the transcript]

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I’m currently obsessed with these women who have swindled and tricked seemingly intelligent, wealthy men out of their money. When the story of Anna Delvay hit the newsstands four years ago, I read everything I could about the case. Not because I admire her, but because I (still) can’t understand how anyone could do what she did—and get away with it for as long as she did. My friend Katie and I keep joking that we’re just going to start telling people that the wire is on the way. Over and over and over again.

And don’t get me started on Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos. Just four years ago, her company was valued at more than $9 BILLION. She had 800 employees. And members of her board were some of the most well-known and well-respected people in the world. And now she’s headed to prison.

You can kind of see why she did what she did. Tech entrepreneurs have been faking it until they make it for eternity. Her undoing was that it was a healthcare startup. They were testing a prototype on human beings—without FDA approval or any real technology that anyone had approved. It’s illegal, unethical, and wrong, but it’s fascinating from a behavioral psychology perspective.

In the final episode of this season of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Lenny Bruce says to Midge, “Ninety percent of this game is how they see you. They see you hanging with Tony Bennett, they think you deserve to be there. They see you hauled off to jail for saying f–k at a strip club, they think you deserve that also. Wise up.”

Fake it until you make it is a common refrain among entrepreneurs who think the only way to succeed is to hustle all day and all night long. But there also is something to be said for hanging out with Tony Bennett versus people in a strip club. Perception is reality.

I know this doesn’t have a lot to do with communications yet, but we’ll get there on this week’s Spin Sucks podcast episode.

Resources Included: * Anna Delvay * “PR Missteps Accelerated the Downfall of Elizabeth Holmes” * PR Pros vs. Journalists * Spin Sucks Community

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For those who are weary of the staged, curated images people share on social networks like Instagram (as if their lives were truly that enviable), BeReal wants to be the antidote. It is finding favor with the college-aged crowd but there could be untapped opportunities for businesses to participate, too.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 23, 2022. FIR “shorts” — episodes under 15 minutes — will be available several times each week.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly or request the credentials in our Facebook group or send an email to fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Neville’s “asides” blog, Outbox, is available, as well.

Links from this episode:

• BeReal
• BeReal, an app that focuses on authenticity, is surging
• BeReal Dares You to Be More Authentic on Social Media
• I tried BeReal, the ‘anti-social media’ app that gives users 2 minutes a day to post candid and unfiltered photos, and discovered I like it more than Instagram
• BeReal: the saviour of social media, or a dystopian nightmare?

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Pricing experts provide lots of advice on how agencies should price their services. Some approaches promise greater profits but do come with some added risk.

In this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich discuss why you should master basic, traditional agency pricing before you advance to some of these more advanced techniques.

The co-hosts explain that you need to make sure you can price for at least minimum profitability before you move on to maximizing the profit potential of each engagement.

They also review the need to understand the true risks you are shouldering when you adopt a creative pricing model, and how to make sure that you are prepared for the results regardless of the outcome.

[read the transcript]

The post ALP 149: When to get creative with pricing your agency’s services appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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As part of the IABC Career Roadmap, the business leader path is essential to our profession and its role within society. The business leader plays a critical role in shaping an organization’s future by adopting the Global Standard for the profession while building and maintaining a well-structured, competent, and trusted organizational communication function.

In this Circle of Fellows, our panel of top international communication advisors explores executive communication and leadership, its importance in organizations, and how we as communication professionals build the relationships and competence of executives. They will discuss how to add business value while expanding communication competencies and coaching the people who drive today’s organizations.

About the panel

An accredited business communicator, and past global chair of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC), Adrian Cropley is widely recognized as one of the world’s foremost experts and consultants in strategic communication. With a career spanning over 30 years, Adrian has worked with clients all over the world, including Fortune 500 companies, on major change communication initiatives, internal communication reviews and strategies, professional development programs, and executive leadership and coaching. He has been a keynote speaker and workshop leader on strategic and change communication at international conferences in Canada, the U.S., Europe, the Middle East, Malaysia, Singapore, China, India, Hong Kong, Thailand, New Zealand, and Australia. He has received a number of awards including international Gold Quill awards for communication excellence. Adrian is a member of the Program Advisory Committee for the RMIT School of Media and Communication, is currently chairing the IABC’s Big Ideas Taskforce, and in 2020 was named a Fellow of the IABC.

Not only does Amanda Hamilton-Attwell holds a Ph.D. in Communication Science, but she is also an Accredited Business Communication (ABC) with the IABC and a Registered Corporate Coach (RCC) with the World Association of Business Coaches. For more than three decades, she has assisted Fortune 500 companies and start-ups to optimize communication for the benefit of the organization’s strategic imperatives. BusinessDNA, the company she started 22 years ago, specializes in research and measurement, assisting business leaders in developing their competence and confidence in communication with their teams, producing state-of-the-art communication content and channels and communication coaching for executive leaders. Amanda has facilitated communication and leadership workshops in several African countries, Australia and Scotland. Dr. Hamilton-Attwell served as the Chairman and Board member of the IABC Africa Region for several terms, was a Trustee of the IABC Research Foundation, and co-chaired the IABC Career Road Map task team. In 2014 she also received the IABC Chairman’s Award for her contribution to the communication profession. In 2015 she was named a Fellow of the IABC, and in 2021 she was a member of the IABC Career Assessment Taskforce that received the Rae Hamlin Award.

*Mark Schumann* is the former Vice President of Culture at Sabre and the co-author of Brand from the Inside and Brand for Talent. Before joining Sabre, he was Director of Graduate Communication Studies at the Zicklin School of Business at Baruch College in New York City, as well as a managing principal and global communication practice leader at Towers Perrin. He served as IABC’s chair in 2009-2010 and is the winner of 17 Gold Quill awards.

Brad Whitworth, ABC, SCMP, IABC Fellow, is a pre-eminent thought leader, lecturer, and author in organizational communication. He has led global internal and executive communication programs at HP, Cisco, Hitachi, PeopleSoft, AAA, and MicroFocus. He holds an MBA from Santa Clara University and undergraduate degrees in journalism and speech from the University of Missouri. Brad lives in California wine country and is growing Pinot Noir on his property. A former broadcaster, Brad has made more than 300 presentations to executives, communicators, and university classes around the world. Brad is a past board chairman of the International Association of Business Communicators and a Fellow of the association. He is one of the authors of The IABC Handbook of Organizational Communication and the new IABC Guide for Practical Business Communication: A Global Standard Primer. He currently serves as past chair of the Global Communication Certification Counsel.

The post Circle of Fellows #80: Executive Communication appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Cross-posting your social media posts is a great way to extend reach and get more bang for your image/video/text buck. It can also backfire when not done well and some platforms actively discourage it. Neville and Shel share some thoughts on cross-posting in this episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, May 23, 2022. FIR “shorts” — episodes under 15 minutes — will be available several times each week.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly or request the credentials in our Facebook group or send an email to fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Neville’s “asides” blog, Outbox, is available, as well.

Links from this episode:

• Cross-Posting in 2022: What It Is & Why You Should Use It

The post FIR #248: Cross-Posting Do’s and Don’ts appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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A couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine posted on LinkedIn that he had recently emailed a handful of pitches to reporters. He said, “Guess how many responses I got? Zero.” He went on to say he then picked up the phone and called every one of those reporters—and ended up with an 80% return. Nearly everyone answered the phone and 80% of them were willing to cover his story.

Eighty percent, y’all.

If he had waited for email responses, he wouldn’t have gotten anywhere. But, by picking up the phone as we did in the good ol’ days, he was able to secure significant coverage for his organization.

It seems counterintuitive in a time when no one answers their phone. I have that app set up on my phone that if the number isn’t recognized, it goes straight to voicemail. But then, again, there are people like my husband who are so extroverted, that when his phone rings, he’s like a puppy, ‘Oh, someone is calling me! Let’s see who it is!” Even if it’s spam, he very much enjoys giving them a hard time.

If journalists on your list are like me, unless your pitch is crazy relevant and almost exclusive to Spin Sucks, I’m not answering your email or returning your call. But if they’re like Mr. D., you’ll probably have a fruitful conversation.

All to say, there is a lot of work to do in your earned media efforts. Craft an exclusive and relevant pitch for everyone you send it to—and then use multiple touches to talk them through it. In some cases, you’ll have success like my friend. Which, in today’s world of overstimulation and too much information, is a fantastic way to get results.

On today’s Spin Sucks podcast episode, we’re going to talk about how to get earned media results when it’s getting increasingly more difficult to do this job.

Resources Included: * 2022 State of Journalism Report * PESO Model™ * Michael Smart * Spin Sucks Community

The post Spin Sucks #189: Earned Media in the Age of the Paywall appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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A public kerfuffle between two journalists on Twitter revolved around whether journalists need to establish a personal brand. The fact is, everybody already has a personal brand; the question is how you approach the maintenance of that brand in a social media world. Neville and Shel explore the elements of personal brand-building in this episode.

The next monthly, long-form episode of FIR will drop on Monday, April 18, 2022. FIR “shorts” — episodes under 15 minutes — will be available several times each week.

We host a Communicators Zoom Chat each Thursday at 1 p.m. ET. For credentials needed to participate, contact Shel or Neville directly or request the credentials in our Facebook group or send an email to fircomments@gmail.com.

Special thanks to Jay Moonah for the opening and closing music.

You can find the stories from which Shel’s FIR content is selected at Shel’s Link Blog. Neville’s link blog, Outbox, is available, as well.

Links from this episode:

• In Today’s Journalism Job Market, Having Your Own Brand Is Key To Survival

The post FIR #241: Your Personal Brand, Journalist Edition appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Some agency leaders have seen what works for Saas (Software as a Service) companies and assume they should be doing the same thing to grow their own businesses.

While there may be things to learn from how SaaS businesses generate leads and close new accounts, the reality is that agencies are fundamentally different businesses that usually require a different approach to business development.

In this episode, Chip and Gini explain how the two types of businesses are different, but they also offer ways to use the insights you may glean from studying SaaS marketing.

[read the transcript]

The post ALP 146: Why SaaS marketing tactics probably won’t grow your agency appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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Earlier this month, Nate Nead wrote this screed on ReadWrite (a site where David once managed an editorial team) about how marketing is getting more difficult. We both think that this isn’t true and that with the right automation and tools it is getting easier to target audiences. Nead says, “Effectively persuading and reaching customers in the modern world requires a more nuanced, organic approach.” Did he miss that memo about 10 years ago? If you aren’t already doing that you’re out of a job. Nate also wrote that “It’s incredibly tough to stand out and you’ll probably have to spend a lot of money to do it.” Again, we don’t think money is the answer. Being more effective at telling a compelling story is.

Let’s move on to our conversation with our guest. With social media proving less and less effective at generating and converting leads, small business owners, in particular, are looking for better ways to create dialogues with their customers. Well, have you thought about SMS text marketing? Barbara Casey is CEO of Mobile High 5 and she says a text campaign, combined with a loyalty program, can yield three- to five-fold traffic spikes when a text goes out. The company works with retailers, restaurateurs and service providers to build custom mobile marketing programs that drive customers to shop or dine more frequently. We spoke to her about how to be effective at integrating SMS with loyalty programs, ways to mix online and bricks and mortar retailing, and why you should know the text code 7726.

The post FIR B2B #154: SMS Texting for B2B With Barbara Casey appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

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