Leadermorphosis: Recent Episodes
Lisa Gill and Tuff Leadership Training
Leadermorphosis is a podcast exploring the emerging world of self-managing teams and progressive organisations. Hosted by Lisa Gill, who was named on the Thinkers50 Radar 2020 list, each episode features a guest thought leader or practitioner offering a unique perspective on new and innovative ways of working.
"Turning self-managed teams from a good idea into reality is a big challenge and Lisa Gill is leading the way in making it happen.” – Thinkers50
Leadermorphosis is powered by Tuff Leadership Training, a team of consultants and coaches who specialise in transformational leadership training, shifting working climates and supporting organisations to become self-managing.
If we want to practise alternatives to hierarchy, what needs to be in place? Perttu has twenty years’ experience as an organisational consultant and I’ve been really enjoying his research papers on Radically Decentralised Organisations.
We talk about the four things needed for a Radically Decentralised Organisation to be sustainable, leaderless leadership, group dynamics we need to be aware of, and some interesting case studies in Finland, particularly in the public sector.
Resources:
- Perttu’s paper, “Leaderless Leadership in Radically Decentralised Organisations” https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380008457_Leaderless_leadership_in_radically_decentralized_organizations
- Perttu’s website: https://perttusalovaara.com/en/
- Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 37 with Miki Kashtan
- Ep. 78 with Sofia and Luís from Mindera
- Ep. 41 with Michael Y. Lee
Handing the baton over to someone else can be risky, especially when it’s your company you’re handing over. Timea Kristof shares her research on six key factors necessary for a successful succession process to happen, and one of the most important factors might surprise you. It’s love.
Timea shares insights from her research, including examples of organisations she interviewed such as a family business with three generations of failed successions, as well as her own lived experience of handovers. We also discuss Peter Koenig’s Source Work and how this is a helpful lens when thinking about succession. And we also share some personal learning moments as people pleasers in recovery!
Resources:
- Timea’s website and research https://www.gekko.consulting/founder-succession-research/
- The webinar recording of Timea presenting her research for ConsciousU
- Read more about Source Work:
- Tom Nixon’s book Work with Source
- A Little Red Book About Source by Stefan Merckelbach
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Nadja Taranczewski’s programme, CU Source: https://www.conscious-u.com/cusource/
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Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 49 with Peter Koenig about Source
- Ep. 5 with Tom Nixon
Allan Rhodes is Chief People Officer at teal-inspired insurance broker Konsileo. He shares what he’s learned over the last three years about helping to design a self-managing organisation, including how to onboard people into a totally new way of working.
We also talk about his favourite metaphor of organisational gardening. We can be inspired by other gardens and gardeners, but what will grow best in our unique soil and climate? Allan has dual nationality as a Mexican Englishman so he shares observations on the two cultures having experienced communities exploring progressive ways of organising in both Latin America and the UK.
Resources:
- Konsileo’s website: https://konsileo.com/
- Allan’s blogs about Organisational Gardening
- Latin American networks and organisations promoting self-management:
- Co-crealia: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cocrealia/
- Pancho Mora’s podcast, Autogestión: https://panchomora.life/
- Organizaciones Brillantes: https://www.organizacionesbrillantes.com/el-movimiento
- Brave Job: https://www.brave-job.com/home/
- CultureSee: https://www.culturesee.com/
- Outiopía: https://ouitopia.team/en/
- Luis Salas - Polymath - Reinventando a tu Organización (newsletter): https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-salas-0b7b7135/
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Encuentro Internacional Teal: https://www.congresointernacionalteal.com/
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Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 49 with Peter Koenig about Source
- Ep. 5 with Tom Nixon
- Ep. 82 with Mayden, another UK self-managing company
- Ep. 52 with Jorge Silva from 10Pines, Argentina
- Ep. 96 with Xavier Costa about the movement in Spain
- Ep. 33 with Margaret Wheatley
Why does Spain appear to be a hotbed for progressive organisations lately? Xavier Costa shares three hypotheses: the implementation of the NER self-management approach in over 100 companies, a rich history of cooperatives, and a culture of innovation in the boundaries of Spain.
We also talk about lessons learned from Xavier’s experience of transforming companies, both with consultancy Full Circle Team, and investment fund Krisos, which buys and transforms companies. How do you rebalance salaries? How do you support former managers? And what is the ‘healing’ and personal transformation journey needed for self-organisation to work?
Resources:
- Full Circle Team website: https://www.fullcircleteam.es/
- Krisos website: https://krisos.eu/
- A Corporate Rebels blog about Indaero’s ‘no managers’ experiment
- My blog from a few years ago about the NER approach
- My colleague Karin Tenelius’ blog where she also interviewed Xavier about the new ways of working movement in Spain
- Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 53 Dunia Reverter and Jabi Salcedo talk about the NER / K2K approach
- Ep. 60 Anna Thomson and David Baksh talk about La Fageda
The way groups are working together is not working. But introducing new structures alone is not enough. Tamila and Simon talk to me about how we need to develop our ways of seeing, being and working together if we want to act in the highest possible alignment with our vision. A key part of this is using the lens of Power, Belonging and Justice (PBJ) and strengthening our muscle in Conflict Resilience. Strap in for some powerful wisdom, giggles and deep learning.
Harmonize is a worker-owned cooperative that helps groups work together through Comprehensive Organizational Development and Analysis (CODA™). Tamila and Simon are the co-founders of Harmonize.
Resources:
- Harmonize’s website
- Harmonize’s courses
- Simon’s blog series on the Common Mistakes in Self-Management
- And his article ‘Autopsy of a Failed Holacracy’
- Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 19 with Simon Mont back in 2018
- Ep. 33 with Margaret Wheatley
- Ep. 37 with Miki Kashtan
SINA (Social Innovation Academy) is a network of social enterprise incubators in Uganda and neighbouring countries with a mission of supporting marginalised young people to create their own solutions to social problems in their communities.There are currently more than 10 SINA communities which have catalysed 70+ social enterprises and more than 500 jobs. The goal is to create a global movement of 1,000 SINAs and 100,000 social enterprises by 2035.
Etienne Salborn, founder, and Tonny Wamboga, Operations Lead, talk to me about SINA’s model in which self-organisation plays a central role. How do scholars take on key roles? What is the ‘confusion stage’? What are common misconceptions of self-organisation? What are the specific cultural challenges of learning self-organisation in Uganda? We talk about these questions and more in our conversation.
Resources:
- SINA’s website: https://www.socialinnovationacademy.org/
- More about the SINA framework
- A case study about SINA (non-academic)
- An academic master thesis on the agency aspect of scholars in SINA
- Masters of Social Change, a SINA documentary about refugee activists and social entrepreneurs
- Etienne on the Out of the Clouds podcast talking about the SINA founding story and the model
In this episode we talk all about psychological safety – the misconceptions, what it actually means in practice, what we can learn about it through an equity lens, and how we can design organisational structures that support it (like decision-making protocols).
We also talk about how August does onboarding and creates an adult learning environment through feedback, peer reviews and the role of a ‘Development Advocate’, plus how they relate to the ‘new ways of working’ movement right now.
Tirzah and Mike are teammates at August Public Inc., an organisation and leadership development and change management firm. Tirzah leads August's Equity & Inclusion practice and Mike is a Founding Partner.
Resources:
- Download the August white paper ‘Looking at Psychological Safety Through an Equity Lens’
- Learn more about August and their other insights via their website
- Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 45 with Prof. Amy Edmondson
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Ep. 41 with Michael Y. Lee about the interpersonal risks research (safe spaces and interaction scripts)
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Michael Y. Lee’s research paper ‘Fostering Positive Relational Dynamics in Teams: The Power of Spaces and Interaction Scripts’ (Academy of Management Journal, 2020)
- Book: ‘Confronting our Freedom: Leading a Culture of Chosen Accountability and Belonging’ by Peter Block and Peter Koestenbaum
Miki is the seed founder and Emma a founding member of the Nonviolent Global Liberation community (NGL), which runs entirely as a gift economy. They and NGL as a whole are knee-deep in visionary experimentation about what it would take to realign humanity with life through online and community living experiments.
Even without bosses we can still struggle to embody new ways of being together because of our internalised systems of patriarchal conditioning and capitalist thinking. The capacity lens gives us a way to examine this and make more conscious choices together. As Miki puts it, “Everyone who gets into it falls in love with it, because it moves us from rigidity to flexibility, from predictability to emergence, from coercion to willingness, from judgement to tenderness. Who wouldn't want that?”
An incredibly valuable episode if you are wrestling with topics like fairness, how to distribute tasks and roles, leadership in a bossless environment, how to avoid burnout or how to deal with overwhelm in the face of huge societal challenges.
Resources:
- Nonviolent Global Liberation website
- Miki and NGL’s learning packet called ‘Resource flow systems: from incentive to willingness’
- Link to capacity lens course (access to video recordings only)
- Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 37 with Miki Kashtan on the three shifts
Deerns Spain, a team of around 60 engineers, has been on a transformation journey since March 2020. Inspired by K2K Emocionando, they now work without managers which means that everyone is “creating our company all the time”. I talked to Miquel Castellvi (General Coordinator), Blanca Capdevila (People & Culture) and Pau Riera (Commitment Coordinator) who shared stories about how they changed their organisational structure, their self-managing salary process, giving feedback and dealing with conflicts, and the role of the Values and Culture team.
Resources:
- Deerns Spain website
- Article in El Pais about Deerns Spain and other ‘teal’ organisations in Spain
- Miquel and Blanca on the Autogestión con Pancho Mora podcast (in Spanish)
- Related Leadermorphosis podcast episodes:
- Ep. 55 with Frederic Laloux
- Ep. 53 with Jabi and Dunia from K2K Emocionando
- Ep. 78 with Sofia and Luís from Mindera
I'm thrilled to have adrienne maree brown on the podcast, someone who 'grows ideas in public' through her writing, her podcasts and her music. Ideas like Emergent Strategy, Pleasure Activism, Radical Imagination and Transformative Justice.
We talk about what it means to be in right relationship with change, how to be comfortable with the uncomfortable, sustainable relationships, Pleasure Activism, three thoughts about leadership, what adrienne would do if she was mayor of a large city, and finally some of her favourite practices at the moment.
Resources:
- adrienne’s website where you can find links to her writing and podcasts
- Audre Lorde’s essay ‘Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power’
- Maurice Mitchell’s article ‘Building Resilient Organizations: Toward Joy and Durable Power During a Crisis’
- The Embodiment institute
- Black Organizing for Leadership and Dignity
- The Chani app
- Related podcast episodes:
- Ep. 37 with Miki Kashtan
What can the realm of self-management and new ways of working learn from the realm of polyamory, Relationship Anarchy and open relationships? And how can practices in self-organising work teams help us improve our personal relationships?
Ted Rau is the co-founder of Sociocracy for All and author of books like ‘Who Decides Who Decides?’ and ‘Many Voices One Song’. In his personal life, he has been in monogamous relationships and, for the last seven years, in open relationships. We explore the parallels across personal and professional relationships, like what it means to ‘be in choice’, consent decision-making as a mindset more than a process, holding multiple roles, and agreement-making.
Resources:
- The link to buy Ted’s books
- The HBR article I mention, ‘The Little Things that Affect Our Work Relationships’
- Alanna Irving’s blog about Relationship Retrospectives
- Miki Kashtan’s blog about flow, decision-making and conflict
- Relationship Anarchy Smorgasbord (wouldn’t it be fun to have an equivalent smorgasbord for our work relationships?)
- Related Leadermorphosis episodes:
- Ep. 27 with Ted Rau
- Ep. 35 with Alanna Irving
Douglas Rauch was thinking of selling his construction business until he read Reinventing Organisations by Frederic Laloux. After that, Aquadec went on a transformation journey to becoming a self-managing company. Douglas and his daughter Jessica share the ups and downs of this process over the last five years, including why their initial approach was a spectacular failure, why it was an inner shift that ended up making the difference, and something called “S**t Day.”
Resources:
- Jessica and Douglas on The Better Work Australia Podcast
- The Better Work Australia Podcast website
- Aquadec’s website
Kimberly Loh works in the worlds of conflict resolution, coaching, embodiment and mindfulness. She is also the co-author of ‘Compassionate Conversations: How to Speak and Listen from the Heart.’ We talk about learning to be aware of patterns we have when it comes to engaging with conflict, and Kim shares some ground rules for having ‘Compassionate Conversations’, as well as some really useful self-reflective practices to help us be more conscious of how we show up in conversations, especially ‘difficult’ ones. We also cover topics like power, hierarchies, and why human beings rarely learn how to 'do' conflict well.
Resources:
- Kim Loh’s website
- How to order the book ‘Compassionate Conversations’
- A link to Kim’s course, ‘Heart Connections: Strategies for Navigating Conflict & Difference’
Since 2014, Sanjay Fernandes and his colleagues at SOLE Colombia have been teaching citizens the principles of a Self-Organised Learning Environment. He is passionate about reimagining learning and tackling issues like inequality, inspired by decades of research by Sugata Mitra which has shown that SOLEs allow children (and people in general) to learn almost anything.
To date, more than 450,000 Colombians have participated in SOLEs and Sanjay shares some wonderful stories of how this methodology has reawakened people’s curiosity and sense of being an active citizen. Whether in public libraries, schools or organisations, we talk about the value of asking big questions and searching for the answers together, and the role of the ‘Granny Cloud’ – a network of encouraging non-experts.
Resources:
- Learn more about SOLE Colombia
- Sugata Mitra’s TED talk
- Start SOLE website
Bernadette Wesley’s work is all about bridging the world of inner development with the world of being in an organisation together. We talk about Deliberately Developmental Organisations (DDOs); self-organisation and why changing structures is not enough; the Inner Development Goals (IDGs); and three practices that Bernadette has found particularly powerful: Peer Learning Spaces, Immunity to Change Maps, and Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) Tapping.
Bernadette is an Associate Partner with Fraendi, and is the Coordinator for the Inner Development Goals (IDG) Hub in Porto, Portugal, centering on Adult Development in SDG oriented organisations.
Resources:
- An overview of being a Deliberately Developmental Organisation (DDO)
- Learn more about Peer Learning Spaces
- Experiential Guide: Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) Tapping
- “Organizational Adaptability and Resilience: The Invisible Culture”, an article by Bernadette Wesley
- Learn more about Fraendi
Jon Alexander is the author of the hugely popular 2022 book ‘Citizens: Why the Key to Fixing Everything is All of Us’. He talks to me about the people he interviewed and the stories he collected which show how it’s possible to go from what he calls a ‘Consumer’ mindset to a ‘Citizen’ mindset – like Taiwan’s innovative approach during the COVID pandemic. We also discuss the Three P’s of Participatory Organisations, what leadership would need to look like in a Citizen Future, and why we should try to create ‘safe uncertainty’.
Resources:
- Jon’s website where you can order the book Citizens
- Follow Jon on Twitter: @jonjalex
- The book Jon mentions by Ece Temelkuran, Together: 10 Choices for a Better Now
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Related Leadermorphosis episodes:
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- Ep. 83 with Imandeep Kaur, featured in the book Citizens
- Ep. 64 with Bayo Akomolafe
What would it look like to reimagine the systems of a whole city? To really involve citizens in addressing the huge challenges we face today? Imandeep Kaur reflects on what she has learned in the last ten years from being part of an ecosystem of social entrepreneurs in Birmingham who are cultivating ‘radical reimagination’.
From TEDx Brum, to Impact Hub Birmingham, to Dark Matter Labs and finally as the director of CIVIC SQUARE, where she has been greatly influenced by Kate Raworth’s work on Doughnut Economics, Immy shares some deep insights and big questions from her journey about systems change and leadership.
Resources:
- CIVIC SQUARE’s website
- The Doughnut Economics website
- Blogs and other resources related to Dark Matter Labs’ #BreakingTheRules project
- More Dark Matter Labs provocations from their Medium blog
- Indy Johar, one of Immy’s key influences, in a video conversation with Jordan Hall about the need for a new organisational theory and practice
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Related Leadermorphosis episode:
- One of my favourite conversations with friend of Immy, Meg Lightheart
Three authors of the book ‘Made Without Managers: One Company’s Journey to New Ways of Working’ join me to talk about what they have learned at Mayden, a cloud based health tech solutions organisation in the UK. Ruth Waterfield (developer and scrum master), Taryn Burden (product owner of Mayden’s new ways of working) and Philippa Kindon (coach) share how Mayden’s ways of working have evolved over the years, including what career progression looks like, the role of directors in a bossless organisation, and what have been their biggest challenges.
Resources:
- Order the book ‘Made Without Managers: One Company’s Journey to New Ways of Working’ from Amazon here
- Read the blog about the Mayden book here
Erik is an executive advisor on transformation and the future of work, leadership, and collaboration, and the author of ‘Teal Dots in an Orange World.’ We talk about how this 'new ways of working' movement is evolving, and in particular a positive trend that Erik calls 'fragmented organisations' that's happening because it's hard to scale self-managed or 'teal' practices and principles in a uniform way. Erik shares what he has observed, particularly in larger organisations, including challenges like interfacing with the outside world when you are a progressive organisation. Finally, we explore leadership and 'futures literacy' as an important skill. I love Erik's articulate and thoughtful style and I think this was a great sense-making conversation.
Resources:
- Erik’s book, ‘Teal Dots in an Orange World’
- The HBR article ‘Managing the whitespace’
- Bill Anderson talking about transformation at scale at Roche, on the Brave New Work podcast
- Related Leadermorphosis episodes:
- The episode with Peter Koenig about Source
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The episode with Tom Nixon about Source
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The books Erik mentioned:
- ‘Imaginable’ by Jane McGonical
- ‘Transforming the Future: Anticipation in the 21st Century’ by Riel Miller et al.
For the past year, the Municipality of Slagelse in Denmark has been experimenting with autonomous teams. Of the 8,000 employees, some 25-30 units so far have opted in to learn how to make decisions as a team using key principles of Sociocracy. Mette Aagaard, Head of Development, shares what they have been learning and why she thinks it is the responsibility of the public sector to develop societies, and workplaces, that are fit for humans.
Anyone wondering how to introduce self-managing teams in a large public sector organisation, this episode is for you!
Resources:
- The video of Mette talking to Ted Rau at the Global Sociocracy Conference
- The Leadermorphosis episode with Ted Rau talking about Sociocracy
For the past year, the Municipality of Slagelse in Denmark has been experimenting with autonomous teams. Of the 8,000 employees, some 25-30 units so far have opted in to learn how to make decisions as a team using key principles of Sociocracy. Mette Aagaard, Head of Development, shares what they have been learning and why she thinks it is the responsibility of the public sector to develop societies, and workplaces, that are fit for humans.
Anyone wondering how to introduce self-managing teams in a large public sector organisation, this episode is for you!
Resources:
- The video of Mette talking to Ted Rau at the Global Sociocracy Conference
- The Leadermorphosis episode with Ted Rau talking about Sociocracy
Lina shares the story of her time at Finnish commercial real estate company Technopolis where she led the transformation of the Lithuania business unit. Inspired by Frederic Laloux's book Reinventing Organisations, she got the mandate from her boss to run her business unit of 20 people in a totally different way, with no managers. She shares the story of what her team learned, the challenges they faced, and the results they achieved.
Highlights include some harsh but valuable feedback from her team about how decisions are made; a group learning to handle their own conflicts; and a chief accountant who went above and beyond to help the team exceed a seemingly impossible sales target.
Since recording, Lina has teamed up with other progressive leadership practitioners to help organisations in Lithuania transform to self-managing ways of working.
Resources:
- The Leadermorphosis episode with Dunia and Jabi from K2K Emocionando
Lina shares the story of her time at Finnish commercial real estate company Technopolis where she led the transformation of the Lithuania business unit. Inspired by Frederic Laloux's book Reinventing Organisations, she got the mandate from her boss to run her business unit of 20 people in a totally different way, with no managers. She shares the story of what her team learned, the challenges they faced, and the results they achieved.
Highlights include some harsh but valuable feedback from her team about how decisions are made; a group learning to handle their own conflicts; and a chief accountant who went above and beyond to help the team exceed a seemingly impossible sales target.
Since recording, Lina has teamed up with other progressive leadership practitioners to help organisations in Lithuania transform to self-managing ways of working.
Resources:
- The Leadermorphosis episode with Dunia and Jabi from K2K Emocionando
Sofia and Luís talk about the self-organisation journey at global software engineering company, Mindera. With 900+ employees and counting, they have evolved as a company without managers through experiments guided by questions like: Will this bring more autonomy? Is it human friendly? This has resulted in some remarkable employee-designed processes, like their self-managed salary system, and their unique office space in Porto, Portugal.
Sofia, Mindera’s co-founder, and Luís (whose title is ‘Self-Organisation Enthusiast and Learning Geek’) share what they have learned from their journey and how they have developed as individuals themselves.
Resources:
- The Mindera employee handbook
- Luís’ talk from the Teal Around the World conference
- Mindera’s website (check out the blogs about why they have no managers, and how their salary process has evolved)
Aaron Dignan, author of Brave New Work and founder of The Ready, is back on the podcast, this time to talk about how his new software startup, Murmur, can help organisations scale new ways of working. We talk about the importance of team agreements and how to keep them alive, plus what Aaron and his colleagues have been learning from their latest explorations in the worlds of self-management, DAOs and their Brave New Work podcast.
Resources:
- Learn more about Murmur: https://www.murmur.com/
- Learn more about The Ready, Aaron’s book Brave New Work: https://theready.com/ and you can buy the Tension and Practice cards here
- Listen to the previous Leadermorphosis episode with Aaron here
- Listen to the episode of me on Aaron and Rodney’s Brave New Work podcast talking about embracing discomfort and transforming conflicts – on Apple podcast; Spotify
Ria Baeck and J.D. Nasaw. Ria and J.D. are both coaches and facilitators who combine scientific research of trauma with embodied practices of collective intelligence and wisdom.
In our conversation, we discuss questions like: what does trauma have to do with new ways of working? How can we be more conscious collaborators? What are examples of embodied practices we can use so that our journey of new ways of working is not only an intellectual one?
Ria has thirty years of experience as a therapist, and J.D. is particularly interested in the intersection of somatics, self-management, social justice, and regeneration. Both are associates at Greaterthan for which they have developed a course called Trauma Informed Collaboration.
Resources:
- More information about the Trauma Informed Collaboration course
- Greaterthan’s website
- Learn more about Enspiral
- Learn more about Percolab
- A beginner’s guide to Polyvagal Theory from Rhythm of Regulation
- See also the Leadermorphosis episode with Miki Kashtan
Alice Sheldon is the author of ‘Why Weren’t We Taught This at School?’ and the founder of Needs Understanding, an approach for finding creative solutions and building relationships at home and at work. I love how Alice shares practical tools and stories to bring to life some of the principles of Nonviolent Communication. She also coaches me through an example of an organisation where there is a tension between two groups: those who are enthusiastic about self-management and those sceptical about it. A great episode if you want to upgrade your self-awareness and communication skills.
Resources:
- The Needs Understanding website www.needs-understanding.com
- Alice’s book, ‘Why Weren’t We Taught This at School?’
- The needs list PDF we mention (and other useful lists)
Matt Perez realised that his successful career as a boss in a Silicon Valley tech company had made him a worse person and so he co-founded Nearsoft in 2007 to be a company that works for everyone. His recent book, Radical Companies Without Bosses or Employees, takes self-organisation one step further to include co-ownership so that people aren’t dependent on what he calls ‘enlightened monarchs.’ We talk about what he’s been learning, including the development of a distribution mechanism that decentralises ownership and supports egalitarian and equitable wealth sharing based on contribution.
Resources:
- Matt’s book ‘Radical Companies’
- Related Leadermorphosis episodes:
- Listen to the episode with Anabel Montiel to learn more about Nearsoft
- Listen to the episode with Jabi Salcedo and Dunia Reverter from K2K
Kate Beecroft works on ecosystem and community building at Centrifuge, the decentralised asset financing protocol. She has been involved in Decentralised Autonomous Organisations (DAOs) since 2018 and brings to them her experience of self-managing organisations as the co-founder of Greaterthan and a long-time member of Enspiral. We talk about common critiques of DAOs and Web3, as well as how we could share learning more across the worlds of self-managing organisations, DAOs and cooperatives.
For listeners totally new to the world of DAOs and Web3, here are two starting points:
- This Forbes article: What Are DAOs And Why You Should Pay Attention
- The Brave New Work podcast episode with Chase Chapman (see also their DAO mini-series)
Resources:
- The paper Kate co-authored, The Dissensus Protocol
- The episode of the ‘On the Other Side’ podcast we mention
- Elizabeth M. Renieris’ article ‘Amid the Hype over Web3, Informed Skepticism Is Critical’
- Richard D. Bartlett, Stephen Reid and Rufus Pollock on Critical Exploration of Web3 (YouTube video)
- Enspiral’s website
Swarnalakshmi Ravi is the former national prime minister of India's Inclusive Neighbourhood Children's Parliament. The children’s parliament movement is an example of how simple but effective governance principles and structures can make children’s voices heard and empower them to take collective action on issues that affect their lives. Swarna shares her experiences both as a child participating in these parliaments and now as an adult supporting the development of the Provisional World Children’s Parliament. What can we learn from this movement about inclusion, accessibility and collaboration? Resources:
- The documentary ‘Power to the Children’: https://www.powertothechildren-film.com/
- The book ‘Hello, Neighbourocracy!’: https://leanpub.com/helloneighbourocracy
- See also Sociocracy for All’s websites for more resources related to neighbourhood and children’s parliaments: https://www.sociocracyforall.org/
Marwa Farouq leads the Global Operations Circle in Teach for All, which is a global network of partner organisations developing collective leadership to improve education and expand opportunity for all children. Marwa shares what she’s learned from exploring new ways of working at Teach for All, including dismantling the senior leadership team, moving decisions closer to the work, embracing tensions and liberating untapped leadership through their core value of diversity, equity and inclusion.
Marwa is originally from Egypt and over her almost 20-year career she has led organisational development, culture transformation, and change management initiatives as well as being a seasoned executive coach and Nonviolent Communication practitioner.
Resources:
- Teach for All’s website https://teachforall.org/
- A video where two Teach for All network leaders share ‘The Leadership Mindset Shifts That Have Enabled Progress in Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion’ https://teachforall.org/news/leadership-mindset-shifts-have-enabled-progress-diversity-equity-inclusion
- About Frederic Laloux’s book, Reinventing Organizations https://www.reinventingorganizations.com/
- About Nonviolent Communication https://www.cnvc.org/
Ravi Resck was born to hippy parents in Brazil, became a computer network engineer, and then travelled the world as a guitarist, discovering a love of facilitation and social design. Today he goes by tags like hacktivist, org designer, facilitator, and systems mapper, sharing social technologies with others in a fun and accessible way. He works as a consultant at Target Teal, a collective exploring new ways of working, including an open-source fork of Holacracy called Organic Organization (or O2). We talk about why he believes lessons from self-management and Sociocratic-inspired models benefit all organisations, not just the ‘already-converted’, and Ravi shares some of his favourite examples of organisations and communities at the cutting edge of new ways of collaborating. Ravi is definitely one to watch in the future of work space!
Resources:
- Target Teal’s website https://targetteal.com/en/
- Learn more about Organic Organization https://targetteal.com/en/organic-organization/
- Sociocracy for All’s page about Sociocracy with Youth, including the Children’s Parliament movement https://www.sociocracyforall.org/sociocracy-with-youth/
- H3Uni’s website https://www.h3uni.org/
Jos de Blok is the founder of Buurtzorg, a home care organisation in the Netherlands with 15,000 nurses and no managers. We talk about how their decentralised, human approach has helped them during the pandemic, why he believes ‘protocolising things’ in organisations does damage, and his advice for leaders and traditional top-down organisations that are embarking on transformation processes. It was an honour to talk to one of my heroes and to hear him speak with such heart. Enjoy!
Resources:
- My interview with the Buurtzorg nurses from the Houten team: https://leadermorphosis.co/ep-26-buurtzorg-and-the-power-of-self-managed-teams-of-nurses
- More about the book ‘Organizational Innovation by Integrating Simplification: Learning from Buurtzorg Nederland’ https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-11725-6
Michael Bungay Stanier is on a mission to ‘un-weird coaching’ and make it a skill set available to anyone. His books have sold over a million copies and Michael has taught more than 200,000 people. As a big fan of his writing, I wanted to talk to him about why being more ‘coach-like’ is so valuable – both for us and for the people we work with – and how to get better at it.
We also discussed what Michael’s learned from handing over the role of CEO at the company he founded, his new book ‘How to Begin’, and why he’s interested in exploring the power of giving away power...
Resources:
- Michael’s website https://www.mbs.works/
- Michael’s new book, ‘How to Begin: A Proven Plan to Start Something That Matters’ https://www.mbs.works/how-to-begin/
- Michael’s podcast ‘Two Pages with MBS’ https://www.mbs.works/2-pages-podcast/
- The book Michael mentions: ‘The Power of Giving Away Power’ by Matthew Barzun
The current models for how we measure things in organisations tend to produce compliance at their best, and dysfunctions at their worst. Andy Brogan has developed an alternative tool called Confirmation Practices that he hopes could one day completely shift how we see regulation, accreditation and accountability in general. Joined by Helen Sanderson, we discuss examples of where Confirmation Practices have made a difference (such as in a pathology service) and why this tool helps ‘put the elephant in the room’. It’s all about going from scorekeeping to sense making.
Andy Brogan is the founding partner of Easier Inc, providing consultancy services to a range of clients and sectors and is particularly passionate about the future of public services. Before that he worked in healthcare as a senior manager in the NHS (National Health Service) in the UK.
Helen Sanderson has been on the podcast before and is the founder of Wellbeing Teams, the first self-managed teams in social care to be inspected by the Care Quality Commission (receiving an Outstanding rating in their first inspection in 2019). After three years of being a provider, she and her colleagues now provide support to other organisations who want to use the principles and practices of Wellbeing Teams.
Resources:
- Andy’s websites: www.easierinc.com and www.nextstageradicals.net
- Helen’s website: www.helensandersonassociates.co.uk
- The Wellbeing Teams website: www.wellbeingteams.org
On Twitter:
- Andy https://twitter.com/AndyTBrogan
- Helen https://twitter.com/HelenWBTeam
Margaret Heffernan is an author, speaker, business leader and professor. She has written six books and her TED talks have been seen by more than 12 million people. We talk about the ‘status quo trap’ in organisations, myths about whistleblowers, her thoughts on self-management and learning to embrace tough questions. Finally, she shares why her main focus now is the climate crisis.
Follow Margaret on Twitter: @M_Heffernan
Resources:
- Margaret’s website and more information about her latest book
- Margaret’s Medium post ‘Three problems of power’
- Margaret’s brilliant TED talks
Pasteur Byabeza is the lead link of the Student Care Circle at Davis College, a higher learning institution in Rwanda. He is one of the pioneers who has been driving the college’s transition to becoming a self-managed, Holacratic organisation. Though they are early in their journey, taking steps like disbanding the global council and replacing management hierarchies with distributed decision making have already had a huge impact on people’s engagement levels. Pasteur shares what he has learned so far with honesty and contagious passion.
Resources:
- The Davis College website
- To learn more about Holacracy, you can listen to Leadermorphosis episodes 31 and 32 with Holacracy pioneer Brian Roberston or visit the Holacracy website
- Other education-related episodes of Leadermorphosis include:
- Ep. 46 – students from Learnlife talking about a new, self-directed paradigm of learning in the education sector
- Ep. 16 – Marianne Osorio talking about Sociocracy in schools and more
Bayo Akomolafe is a Nigerian author, professor, chief curator of The Emergence Network and is often known for his poetic and provocative take on big topics such as global crisis and social change. We talk about what he calls 'generative incapacitation' and the kind of leadership that’s needed in these times, how the Covid pandemic is disrupting our norms, embracing failure and allowing ourselves to be lost... and I also posed some questions to him about my worries regarding the reinventing work movement. It's a deep conversation so perhaps listen to this out on a walk!
Resources:
- Bayo’s website
- A beautiful conversation with Bayo on For The Wild on slowing down for urgent times
- A video of Bayo being interviewed by friend of the Leadermorphosis podcast Skeena Rathor for Extinction Rebellion ideas exchange
-
- (And you can listen to my conversation with Skeena here, Leadermorphosis ep. 47)
- The conversation with Miki Kashtan I reference (Leadermorphosis ep. 37)
- The conversation with Margaret Wheatley I reference (Leadermorphosis ep. 33)
“Command authority is a poor basis for life.” Jocelyn Davis is an author, speaker and the former head of R&D at global consultancy The Forum Corporation. We talk about how she weaves together the threads of leadership, Eastern philosophy and dramatic literature. Her insights on group development, leadership as influence, and ‘climate’ in teams are really relevant for those interested in self-managing organisations.
Resources:
- Jocelyn's book The Art of Quiet Influence
- Jocelyn’s website
- Jocelyn’s article about 8 traps for leaders in the corporate world
- Jocelyn on Twitter: @JocelynRDavis
Sam Conniff and Alex Barker’s books ‘Be More Pirate’ and ‘How to Be More Pirate’ have sparked a movement of people around the world who want to shake things up, to create new business models and systems that are better for people and planet. The tagline on their website says: "Being more pirate is a shift in your mindset; a willingness to think differently, to challenge and be challenged, and to stop asking for permission to do what you know is right.” I wanted to talk to Sam and Alex about what we can learn from the golden age of pirates 300 years ago, and to share some examples of organisations that have been inspired to transform.
Resources:
- Be More Pirate website
- Be More Pirate meetup events (online and in-person)
- Reinventing Organisations website (about Frederic Laloux's work)
How to follow Alex and Sam:
- Twitter: @AlexandraBarke1 and @SamConniff
Topi Jokinen is one of the founders of a small Finnish company in the construction sector called Vertia. Since 2018, Topi has been leading a transformation in the company based on the idea of self-organising cells to help it grow and develop. He is perhaps the first CEO I have met who has done this level of personal and professional development and he shares with heart and humility what his leadership journey has been. We also talk about Vertia’s radical structures and practices, such as a transparent and collaborative salary model, as well as what Topi has learned about stepping back and letting go as a co-founder and CEO.
Resources:
- The Vertia case study produced by Amara Collaboration
- Vertia’s website
- A page about the Advice Process and collaborative decision making from the Reinventing Organisations wiki
How to follow Topi:
- Twitter: @TopiJokinen
Filmmakers Anna Thomson and David Baksh talk to me about Yoghurt Utopia, their documentary about a yoghurt company whose mission is to provide work and accommodation for people living with mental illness in the Catalonia region in Spain. Having spent several years with some of the workers of La Fageda and its inimitable founder, Cristobal Colon, they share what they have learned about this remarkable workplace and what lessons we can learn in terms of diversity, inclusion, and meaning at work.
Resources:
- Link to watch the Yoghurt Utopia documentary (NB: you need to create a free account with Waterbear to access)
- The trailer for the Yoghurt Utopia documentary
- The Yoghurt Utopia Facebook page, where you can follow updates about what film festivals it’s featured in, where you can see it etc.
- Anna Thomson’s article for The Huffington Post about the film
- ‘Cultivating a worker’s paradise’, article in The Guardian
The La Fageda website (in Catalan)
Yuji Yamada is the founder of EnFlow and is interested in exploring the differences between approaching organisational transformation from a ‘Western lens’ and a Japanese lens. We talk about teal organisations from Frederic Laloux’s book ‘Reinventing Organisations’ (which has sold 100,000 copies in Japan) and Yuji’s homegrown concept of ‘Jinen management’. Could East Asian organisations be at an advantage in developing new ways of working by drawing on their ancient wisdom and inherent cultural paradigms of interconnectedness?
How to follow Yuji:
- Twitter: @yujiyamada0522
Resources:
- Yuji’s Medium post, ‘The trends of Teal organization in Japan’
- The book ‘The Geography of Thought: How Asians and Westerners Think Differently’ by Richard E. Nisbett
Related Leadermorphosis episodes:
- Ep. 55 with Frederic Laloux, author of Reinventing Organisations
- Ep. 5 with Tom Nixon, founder of Maptio
- Ep. 49 with Peter Koenig about sourcework
Rich and Nati are the founders of collaboration consultancy The Hum and part of the Enspiral network. Between them, they have a background in activism, engineering, community organising and entrepreneurship and are well-respected thought leaders when it comes to decentralised organisations, self-managing teams and collaborative culture. We talk about personal shifts, ‘trojan horse’ radical practices, and ideas for moving from a domination society to a partnership society.
How to follow Rich and Nati:
- Twitter: @RichDecibels and @LombardoNati
Resources:
- The Hum’s online course (next guided programme starts on the 11th of March 2021)
- Learn more about Riane Eisler, who Rich mentions at the start
- The microsolidarity programme Nati mentioned
- The Enspiral website
- Loomio’s website
Nand Kishore Chaudhary is the remarkable founder of Jaipur Rugs, a company employing 40,000 weavers in 600 villages selling beautiful carpets in 40 countries. The artisans – most of them women in India’s “untouchable” class – are the “heroes of the business”, and self-managed principles like distributed decision making have long been a hallmark of the company. We talk about how N. K. Chaudhary has created a “business ashram”, where people find their clarity of purpose and gain higher consciousness, as well as his thoughts on humble leadership and how Jaipur Rugs will evolve self-management further.
Resources:
- Jaipur Living website and N. K. Chaudhary’s website
- Doug Kirkpatrick’s blog, ‘Jaipur Rugs: Self-managed art that you can walk on’
- A Forbes article about the book The Healing Organisation, which features Jaipur Rugs as one of its examples
- An extract from the book ‘The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid: Eradicating Poverty Through Profits’
- The book ‘The Healing Organisation: Awakening the Conscience of Business to Help Save the World’ by Raj Sisodia and Michael J. Gelb
Related Leadermorphosis episodes:
- Ep. 14 with Doug Kirkpatrick
- Ep. 42 with Ved Krishna from Yash Pakka
Anna Elgh is the CEO of Svenska Retursystem, a Swedish circular economy logistics company. We talk about the transformations she has led at the company since joining in 2014, from Lean to nearly three years of moving towards self-managing teams. She shares what she has learned about transforming conflicts, distributed decision making, disbanding the management team, as well as leadership and the power of letting go.
Resources:
- Svenska Retursystem’s website
- The book Lisa has co-authored with Karin Tenelius, Moose Heads on the Table
- Related Leadermorphosis episodes:
-
- Ep. 55 with Frederic Laloux, author of Reinventing Organisations
- Ep. 37 with Miki Kashtan about the inner shifts that need to happen for self-management to work
- Ep 45. with Amy Edmondson about psychological safety and climate (vs culture)
- The Enneagram Institute
- Tuff Leadership Training
Frederic Laloux is the author of the book 'Reinventing Organisations' and one of the leading figures in the new ways of working movement, coining the term ‘teal organisation’ which consists of three breakthroughs: self-management, wholeness, and evolutionary purpose. We talk about how we can use juicy questions to explore new frontiers of what’s possible in our organisations and lives. Questions like: “Where are you participating in a system where you're actually out of integrity?” Frederic shares examples from conversations he’s had with CEOs of big corporations and inspiring stories he’s encountered of radical initiatives that have come from all levels of organisations.
Resources:
- Transcript of our conversation here
- The Reinventing Organisations website
- Frederic’s library of more than 100 ‘Insights for the Journey’ videos
-
- Here’s the one on ‘growth pain’ we reference
- And the one about the leader of the hospital
- A video about Interface being a circular economy company from Meaning Conference
- The book Wilful Blindness by Margaret Heffernan
Bill Fischer is a Professor of Innovation Management at IMD and Simone Cicero is the cofounder of Boundaryless and co-creator of the Platform Design Toolkit. We talk about what they have learned from years of studying and collaborating with the Chinese company Haier Group, whose Rendanheyi organisational model has been praised internationally as one of the most revolutionary management ideas of the 21st century. Our conversation explores the extraordinary leadership of CEO Zhang Ruimin, eliminating bureaucracy, designing an organisation to enable thousands of self-managed microenterprises, and what this model means for the future of work.
How to follow Bill and Simone:
- Twitter: @bill_fischer and @meedabyte
You can read the transcript version here.
Resources:
- Link to sign up for Bill and Simone’s RenDanHeYi masterclass in October (link gives you a 25% discount with the code LEADERMORPHOSIS)
- The EEEO Toolkit Draft Download webpage (a set of tools to support the creation of an Entrepreneurial Organisation)
- The Boundaryless Haier webinar YouTube playlist
- Corporate Rebels’ post about Haier
- Bill’s chapter ‘Ecosystems as an engine for innovation and learning’ in the book ‘Ecosystems Inc’
- Bill’s IMD profile where you can find more of his publications
- Simone’s interview with Bill on the Boundaryless podcast
- Alicia Hennig‘s paper on Daoism in Management
Jabi Salcedo and Dunia Reverter are coordinators at K2K Emocionando, a Spanish consultancy that has transformed more than 85 organisations from traditional to self-managing over the last two decades. We talk about the radical components of their methodology, such as removing manager roles, balancing salaries, shared decision-making and profit sharing. Jabi and Dunia share what they’ve learned from the transformations they have been part of, the kinds of shifts they’ve seen, and what some of the biggest challenges can be.
How to follow Dunia:
- Twitter: @reverter_dunia
Resources:
- My blog about the 10 components for abolishing hierarchy that K2K employs in their transformations
- The signup page for the NER by K2K Advanced Online Seminar in English, starting on the 23rd of September 2020
- Corporate Rebels’ blogs about K2K and their pioneering founder, Koldo Saratxaga
Jorge Silva is the co-founder of 10Pines, a self-managing software development company in Argentina. We talk about three key practices they have as a horizontal organisation, what they’re learning, and Jorge’s vision to spread this way of working in South America.
How to follow Jorge:
- Twitter: @jor_silva
Resources:
- A web page about 10Pines’ culture
- Jorge’s blog about how 10Pines does recruitment
- More about Loomio, the tool they use for decisions
- The Leadermorphosis episode with Anabel Montiel from Nearsoft, a self-managing software company in Mexico
Mark Eddleston, new ways of working consultant and coach and cofounder of the Reinventing Work movement, interviews Lisa Gill as they look back on 50 episodes of the Leadermorphosis podcast. Which conversations have changed their thinking? How has the podcast evolved? What is the next phase of the new ways of working movement?
How to follow Mark:
- Twitter: @marco_eds
Resources:
- Reinventing Work website
- Mark's website
- The book Lisa Gill and Karin Tenelius have written, Moose Heads on the Table
- Leadermorphosis episodes we referred to:
- Margaret Wheatley
- Miki Kashtan
- Helen Sanderson
- Skeen Rathor
- Buurtzorg nurses
- Chuck Blakeman
- Gary Hamel
Dr Tjanara Goreng Goreng is a Wakka Wakka Wulli Wulli Traditional Owner from Central Queensland, Australia, and Robyn Katz is the founder of Talkpoint, which curates peer-to-peer learning experiences to humanise work. We talk about Tjanara’s PhD research which draws parallels between aboriginal culture and eldership, and Robert Kegan’s psychological development research and the idea of “sacred leadership”. Both women share what they have learned through their own personal transformation journeys, and what’s needed now in the world in terms of leadership development.
Resources:
- Talkpoint page featuring videos and other content about Tjanara’s sacred leadership doctorate
- OneINMA Global (website for sacred leadership mentoring, programs and transformational leadership consulting)
- Tjanara’s book “A Long Way from No Go”
- Leadermorphosis episode with Margaret Wheatley talking about warriors for the human spirit
- About Theory U
Peter Koenig has spent the last decade researching principles for how founders organise and materialise their enterprises, projects and initiatives – what he calls sourcework. We talk about the role of source and source principles and the idea of seeing organisations as energetic fields. We talk about why his work has sparked debate in “new ways of working” circles, as well as how we can use the lens of source to diagnose decentralised organisations when we seem to get stuck. Peter also shares some insights from 30 years of running money seminars, and why money is such a great place to hide our deepest shadows.
Resources:
- Upcoming money workshop (based on Peter's work) by Tim Malnick
- The Role of Source introduction workshop by Tom Nixon
- A website about source principles curated by Tom Nixon
- Peter’s website
- Tom Nixon’s blog about Reinventing Organisations and source (with a comment from Frederic Laloux at the end)
- Frederic Laloux’s video on new roles for top leaders, including the role of source
- Peter’s book 30 Lies About Money
Luz Iglesias, Director of Recruitment, and Edwin Jansen, Head of Corporate Development, work at Ian Martin Group, a self-managed, teal recruitment company with 400 employees across Canada and India. They share examples and stories of the initiatives, decisions and creativity that have sprung up in response to the COVID-19 pandemic without any central coordination, and how adaptability and humanity can flow freely in a self-organised system because of the mindset shift it facilitates. As former managers, they reflect on how liberating it is to distribute the responsibility of responding, strategising and taking care of people operations.
How to follow Ian Martin Group:
- Twitter: IanMartinGroup
Resources:
- Leadermorphosis episode with Edwin Jansen about Fitzii, part of Ian Martin Group
- Book: The Decision Maker by Dennis Bakke
- Video: Luz talking about decision-making and IMG's 'teal operating system' from Loomio
- About Patrick Lencioni’s “thematic goal” concept
- Leadermorphosis episode with Aaron Dignan, author of Brave New Work
Skeena Rathor, who co-leads the Vision Sensing circle in Extinction Rebellion, shares insights from inside this decentralised movement – how their Holacratic, Sociocratic structures support its collective purpose, the work they’re doing with Miki Kashtan to transform power dynamics, and why Skeena’s dream is for XR to become a touchstone for the work of co-liberation. We also talk about how XR is responding to COVID-19 and their AloneTogether campaign.
How to follow Extinction Rebellion:
- Twitter: @ExtinctionR
Resources:
- Extinction Rebellion’s website and its AloneTogether handbook
- The Leadermorphosis podcast episode with Miki Kashtan
- Aimee Groth’s article about XR that mentions ‘shadow work’
- Palmer Parker’s thoughts on paradox
- Naomi Klein’s Shock Doctrine
- Frederic Laloux’s video on two types of pain along the journey
Devin Carberry, Director of Learning Programs, and two learners, 16-year-old Gerard Almenara, and 12-year-old Samir Shariputra Chopra, share their experiences of what it’s like to be part of Learnlife in Barcelona. Learnlife is reinventing education by creating an open ecosystem for a lifelong learning paradigm. People of all ages are supported to become self-directed learners and develop the skills to be responsible community members. This is the future of education and the Learnlife model has much to teach us about how to upgrade our organisations, too.
How to follow Learnlife:
- Twitter: @wearelearnlife
Resources:
- Learnlife website
Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School and the author of “Teaming” and “The Fearless Organisation”. We talk about her journey of researching psychological safety and teaming, as well as the paper she co-wrote about self-managing organisations. Amy shares insightful and practical lessons about leadership, how to be a good team member, and the future of work.
How to follow Amy:
- Twitter: @AmyCEdmondson
Resources:
- Amy’s profile on the HBS page including her work
- “Self-Managing Organizations: Exploring the Limits of Less Hierarchical Organizing” – Amy Edmondon and Michael Y. Lee’s research paper
- See also the episode with Michael Y. Lee to hear more about the research he and Amy published about self-managing organisations
Vivek Menon leads a high growth business unit at Danfoss Power Solutions called eSteering. Their purpose is to build the future steering solutions for off road vehicles. He shares how eSteering works without managers and why he thinks the future of organisations, especially large ones, is building the capacity to be ambidextrous – creating ecosystems where traditionally structured and decentralised teams or units can coexist. Vivek believes there are three components to develop when it comes to self-management: structures, processes, and mindset and behaviours.
How to follow Vivek:
- Twitter: @Menon_Viv
Resources:
- Vivek’s LinkedIn blogs on self-managed teams the eSteering Danfoss way, and how they work without managers
- An article about eSteering working without managers on the Danfoss website
- Videos about eSteering’s “why”, structures, processes, and mindsets
Bonnitta Roy is an author, trainer and creator of the OPO (Open Participatory Organisation), which is a framework people are using to experiment with more collaborative ways of working. She is well-loved in the world of Agile for her approaches to complexity and thinking about human systems. Bonnitta shares examples from her work of moves we can make towards more open and participatory organisations.
How to follow Bonnitta:
- Twitter: @bonnittaroy
Resources:
- The OPO Manifesto
- You can preview Bonnitta’s upcoming book, Our Future at Work, at Medium
Ved Krishna is Strategy Head at Yash Pakka, a compostable tableware manufacturer based in Faizabad, India that has been experimenting with organisational self-management since 1999. Ved talks with a lot of heart and honesty about his journey of taking over the family business, then firing himself as CEO and now working from a place of deeper purpose. He also shares the ups and downs of trying to develop self-management in a culture where hierarchy is very strongly ingrained.
How to follow Ved:
- Twitter: @ved_krish
Resources:
- Ved’s TEDx talk
- Chuk website and Yash Papers website
- Susan Basterfield’s LinkedIn blog about Yash
- Jingle Bell school website
Michael Y. Lee is an Assistant Professor of Organisational Behaviour at INSEAD who researches novel and innovative ways of organising. After reading the paper he co-authored with Amy Edmondson on self-managing organisations, I wanted to talk to him to get his academic perspective on this phenomena. He shares what we can learn from self-managing organisations about leadership and how to collaborate in a more decentralised way without sacrificing coordination. We also discuss his research into the two key mechanisms that helped foster positive relational dynamics in a global distributed team.
How to follow Michael:
- Twitter: @yanche
Resources:
- “Self-Managing Organizations: Exploring the Limits of Less Hierarchical Organizing” – Michael and Amy Edmondon’s research paper
- Michael’s website, featuring his key research
Bryan Ungard is the Chief Purpose Officer at Decurion. Decurion is a parent company of a number of businesses, including movie theatres, real estate and senior living, but it's less famous for what it does and more for why and how it does it (as featured in the book “An Everyone Culture”). We talk about Deliberately Developmental Organisations, Bryan’s thoughts on why feedback can be dangerous, what he makes of the trend towards self-managing organisations, and how we can help our organisations become more conscious.
How to follow Bryan:
- Twitter: @ungard
Resources:
- The book “An Everyone Culture”
- Decurion’s website
- Carol Sanford’s website (author of “No More Feedback” and “The Regenerative Business”)
Andreas Flodström and Gustav Henman are the founders of Beetroot, a remarkable IT company set up in 2012 to create social impact in Ukraine. We talk about how culture has played an important role in their self-managed way of organising, the challenges of scaling (from 380 to 1000+ in the next four years), and the tough leadership lessons they’ve learned as founders as the company has grown.
Follow Beetroot:
- Twitter: @beetroot_se
Resources:
- The Beetroot website
- A blog I wrote for the Corporate Rebels about Beetroot
Meg Lightheart is a leadership and presentation coach and helps organisations become more inclusive and agile. Meg shares what she’s learned from her research, work, and her own personal experiences as a trans woman about topics like leadership, adult development, and diversity, equity and inclusion. It’s an insightful and thoughtful conversation full of humour and heart.
Follow Meg:
- Twitter: @megalightheart
Resources:
- Meg’s website
- Book: In Over Our Heads: The Mental Demands of Modern Life by Robert Kegan
- Book: Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race by Reni Eddo-Lodge
- Article: Seven Transformations of Leadership by David Rooke and Bill Torbert
- Theory U levels of listening
Miki Kashtan is an author and an international teacher and practitioner of Nonviolent Communication. In this conversation we talk about the three different places shifts need to occur in order for a self-managing human system to thrive, and how we can start to talk about needs more in order to awaken the collective responsibility of groups of people working together. She also shares the five core systems we need to redesign in our organisations as well as the mindset shifts and dialogue skills we need to develop in order to collaborate on a deeper, more purposeful level.
Resources:
- Miki’s website, The Fearless Heart
- Aligning systems with purpose and values (distinguishes the five core systems) on the Center for Efficient Collaboration website
- For learning more about nonviolent communication: The Center for Nonviolent Communication website
Manuel Küblböck is an org design and transformation coach at German fintech company Gini. We talk about the models Gini has developed for self-organisation and how they have defined together terms like power, hierarchy, and autonomy. He also shares challenges like how to foster leadership in a self-organising company, how to make decisions effectively together and how to develop healthy relationships within the team.
How to follow Manuel:
- Twitter: @ManuelKublbock
Resources:
- Manuel’s blogs:
-
- “How we lead in a self-organised company”
- “How we make decentralised decisions”
- “Why we treat employees like adults”
Alanna Irving is a facilitator, entrepreneur and community builder and is the Executive Director of Open Source Collective. We talk about her chapter in the new book Better Work Together about growing distributed leadership, working together in bossless organisations, collaborating with money, and her own journey, including how to run Agile Scrum on your personal relationship.
How to follow Alanna:
- Twitter: @alannairving
Resources:
- Alanna’s website
- Alanna’s course on Full Circle Leadership on the Better Work Together platform
- The Better Work Together book
- Running Agile Scrum on our relationship (Alanna’s blog)
- Enspiral
- Loomio - collaborative decision making tool; Cobudget - collaborate budgeting tool
Edwin Jansen is Head of Marketing at Fitzii, a recruitment company based in Canada. We talk about the three stages of self-management adoption he’s noticed (Head, Heart, Habit) and why it’s so challenging for us human beings in the “messy middle” stage. Edwin also shares some practices that Fitzii has developed around “radical responsibility”, such as feedback, teal onboarding, and the Role Advice Process, as well as his own personal journey of transformation as a former manager.
How to follow Edwin:
- Twitter: @EdwinJnsn
Resources:
- Edwin’s blog on how people adopt self-management at Fitzii
- Edwin’s blog about the role advice process
- Samantha Slade’s article about Generative Decision Making
- Enneagram personality type indicator
Margaret Wheatley is an author known for bringing lenses like anthropology and quantum science to the fields of leadership and organisational design. In this thoughtful conversation, she challenges the idea of large-scale change in favour of creating “islands of sanity” and doing meaningful work in a local context. She talks about restoring leadership as a noble profession, her take on the growing number of self-managing organisations today, and how we can train as “Warriors for the Human Spirit.”
Resources:
- Margaret’s website
- Warriors for the Human Spirit trainings
- Margaret’s book “Who Do We Choose to Be?”
In Part 2 of this conversation with Brian Robertson, Brian answers listeners’ questions from Twitter. Why does the Holacracy framework appear so rigid when other self-managing systems are more organic and flexible? What happened with Holacracy at Medium and Zappos? What’s the difference between Holacracy and Sociocracy? Why isn’t Holacracy totally open source?
How to follow Brian:
- Twitter: @h1brian
Resources:
- Holacracy events calendar
- Offer for listeners: 30% off for HolacracyOne taster workshop on the 16th of April that Brian is leading. Click here and enter the code: INSIDER
- Frederic Laloux’s video on adopting a ready-made system for self-management (note: I did get it the wrong way round in the conversation, sorry Frederic!)
Brian Roberston is the pioneer of Holacracy, a customisable self-management system used by over 1,000 organisations around the world. In Part 1 of this conversation, we talk about some misconceptions about Holacracy, complementary practices to Holacracy like Nonviolent Communication and Authentic Relating, and about Brian’s personal journey to achieving his purpose of changing how people relate to power.
How to follow Brian:
- Twitter: @h1brian
Resources:
- Holacracy events calendar
- Offer for listeners: 30% off for HolacracyOne taster workshop on the 16th of April that Brian is leading. Click here and enter the code: INSIDER
- Authentic Relating website
- The Center for Nonviolent Communication website
Henri Lipmanowicz and Keith McCandless are the authors of “The Surprising Power of Liberating Structures”. We talk about how Liberating Structures can help you “act your way into a totally new way of organising”, for example, reinventing how we do strategy. Henri and Keith share the fundamental principles of Liberating Structures and examples of powerful transformations, in organisations and schools, catalysed by simply having different kinds of conversations.
Resources:
- Liberating Structures website
- Keith’s blog about liberating strategy
- Liberating Structures app for Android, for Apple
Aaron Dignan, founder of global organisational transformation and coaching practice The Ready, talks about his new book “Brave New Work”. We explore how organisations can reinvent themselves and upgrade their “OS”, not through top-down change, but through principles-based experiments from the edges in.
How to follow Aaron:
- Twitter: @aarondignan
Resources:
- “Brave New Work” book website
- Aaron’s Medium article about the OS Canvas
Tom van der Lubbe, the co-founder of a small, Dutch mortgage advice company called Viisi, had an existential crisis at a young age and has been conscious of doing purposeful work ever since. We talk about the science of motivation and management and how Viisi has developed a simple but powerful approach to salaries. He also shares his thoughts on adapting the organisational self-management system Holacracy and how to create an honest feedback culture where the responsibility sits with teams and individuals, not managers.
Resources:
- Corporate Rebels article about Viisi
- The Story of Viisi (Slideshare)
- Viisi website (in Dutch)
- Does money really affect motivation? (HBR article)
- Corporate Rebels article about Bol
Ted Rau is the co-founder of Sociocracy for All and co-author of the book Many Voices, One Song. In this conversation we talk about how we can distribute authority in organisations and relate to each other as equals using Sociocracy, the “power over, power under” tendencies we have as human beings, the paradoxes and shadow sides of Sociocracy to watch out for, and how we can implement such an approach without becoming "top-down". If you’re interested in transforming your organisation, but stepping into nothing feels daunting, or you’re curious about Sociocracy and what tools like consent-based decision making could make possible, then this episode is for you.
How to follow Ted:
- Twitter: @Sociocracy4All
More resources:
- Buy the book Many Voices, One Song
- Sociocracy for All website
- The Center for Nonviolent Communication website
Buurtzorg is a remarkable organisation: 15,000 employees working in 850 self-managed teams to deliver home care to patients in the Netherlands. The results, including both patient and employee satisfaction, are so outstanding that Buurtzorg-inspired models are popping up all over the world. I got the chance to talk to three nurses from Team Houten, all of whom came from a traditional, large healthcare company, and hear firsthand what it’s like to work in such a high-freedom, high-responsibility environment. Listen to this wonderful conversation with three passionate and charismatic women – Marian, Chila and Jolanda – and discover what they’ve learned over the last nine years about tough conversations, teamwork, and personal development.
Resources:
- Buurtzorg website
Related episodes:
- Leadermorphosis episode 9 featuring Helen Sanderson and the self-managing wellbeing teams she’s created in the UK, also inspired by Buurtzorg
- Leadermorphosis episode 25 with Edel Harris who shares how Cornerstone, one of the largest social care companies in Scotland, is piloting self-managing teams
Learn about the remarkable transformation journey CEO Edel Harris has been leading with one of Scotland’s largest charities, Cornerstone. It began by taking three months out of the business to visit inspiring companies around the world like Southwest Airlines and Buurtzorg. Two years in, Cornerstone has lost nine layers of management in favour of nurturing self-managing local care and support teams. Austerity has made it painfully tough for the social care sector, but here’s a story of how one organisation has reinvented itself and found innovative ways to deliver person-centred care.
How to follow Edel:
- Twitter: @Edelharris
More resources:
- The Cornerstone Website
- Related episodes:
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- Leadermorphosis episode 9 featuring Helen Sanderson and the self-managing wellbeing teams she’s created in the UK, also inspired by Buurtzorg
- Leadermorphosis episode 21 in which Zoe Nicholson shares the transformation journey of another UK-based healthcare company called Here
Researcher and entrepreneur Sarah Houseman shares insights from her PhD research into new governance systems in not for profit organisations. Looking at the lived experiences and practices of four non-hierarchical NGOs, we explore questions like “How we can see our organisations as systems?” and “How can we participate differently and unlearn dominative behaviours that have previously been rewarded in hierarchical organisations?” (The companies featured in her research are: Friends of the Earth Melbourne, Sustainable Economies Law Centre, The Pachamama Alliance and The Enspiral Foundation.)
How to follow Sarah:
- Twitter: @housemansp
More resources:
- Sarah’s blog
- Enspiral’s website
- Friends of the Earth Melbourne’s website
- Sustainable Economies Law Centre’s website
- The Pachamama Alliance’s website
If you enjoyed this episode, you might enjoy episode 19 with Simon Mont on why changing the structures of our organisations isn’t enough.
Gary Hamel is one of the world’s leading business thinkers, Professor at London Business School and director of The Management Lab. In this conversation, we talk about how we can bust bureaucracy for good, make our organisations more experimental, and reinvent what it means to be a leader.
How to follow Gary:
- Twitter: @profhamel
More resources:
- Gary’s website: http://www.garyhamel.com/
Chuck Blakeman is an entrepreneur, author, and speaker passionate about giving people their brains back in organisations. Although we’ve left the technologies of the industrialist age behind, outdated assumptions and practices are still very much alive in most workplaces today. Chuck shares insights about the origins of management versus leadership, distributed decision-making, and how to unlearn old habits to shift our organisational culture into what he calls the participation age. Listen to learn more about unlocking mission-centred, self-managing organisations.
How to follow Chuck:
- Twitter: @ChuckBlakeman
More resources:
- Chuck’s TED talk, The emerging work world in the participation age
- Chuck’s books
- David Marquet’s book Turn the Ship Around!
Zoe Nicholson shares the role of Chief Executive at healthcare social enterprise Here in the UK and describes her job as tethering the organisation to its purpose. She shares some of the practices they’ve developed at Here, inspired by sources like Frederic Laloux’s “Reinventing Organisations” and mindfulness, as well as some of the challenges of working in a highly regulated and hierarchical sector.
How to follow Zoe:
- Twitter: @zoenicholson4
More resources:
- Here’s website http://hereweare.org.uk/
- The Circle Way practice http://www.thecircleway.net/
- Margaret Wheatley’s talk about islands of sanity
- Leadermorphosis podcast episode with Helen Sanderson and her Wellbeing Teams
Anabel Montiel, psychologist and People Developer at Mexican IT company Nearsoft, shares how she has helped the company grow to 300+ people without sacrificing its culture and what personal growth and development can look like in a horizontal organisation. She also talks about how feedback is built into the culture at Nearsoft, right from the onboarding process.
How to follow Anabel:
- Twitter: @anabel
More resources:
- Nearsoft website https://nearsoft.com/
- Learn more about WorldBlu http://www.worldblu.com/nearsoft
Simon Mont, founder of Harmonize, talks about his article “Autopsy of a Failed Holacracy” and the debate it provoked. He believes that if we really want to reimagine our organisations, we need to look at individuals, the organisation, and the larger economic system – changing organisational structures alone isn’t enough. We talk about nonprofits, leadership, and how we can connect the dots across organisational transformation communities.
How to follow Simon:
- Twitter: @harmonizework
More resources:
- “Autopsy of a Failed Holacracy” https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2018/01/09/autopsy-failed-holacracy-lessons-justice-equity-self-management/
- The Harmonize website: https://www.harmonize.work/
- Incite http://www.incite-national.org/
- Anti Oppression Resource and Training Alliance (AORTA) http://aorta.coop/
- Everyday Liberation https://sandrakim.com/
Edwin van der Geest, former Managing Director and Self-Management Ambassador at IT company Incentro, talks about the transformation he led for several years. He shares practices they’ve developed, including self-set salaries and Minimum Viable Teams, and the challenges and triumphs they experienced along the way.
Follow Edwin:
- https://twitter.com/edwinvdg
More resources:
- Edwin’s new website www.edition.to/en/
Björn Lundén, the founder of Björn Lundén Information in Sweden, is an original rebel. He doesn’t believe in rules or bosses or ‘secret salaries’. We talk about how his company of 115 employees has been self-managed for over thirty years, his thoughts on the future of work, and why so few interested visitors actually implement this way of working when they return to their own companies.
More resources:
- “A Liar’s Voyage”, a 60-minute documentary on YouTube about Björn Lundén
- The Björn Lundén website: https://www.blinfo.se/
- The book “Maverick” by Ricardo Semler, the man that inspired Björn back in the late 80s
Marianne Osorio is researching “liberating education” and shares what she’s learnt so far from democratic schools in her home country, Brazil, and beyond. We also talk about a documentary she’s making about schools in the Netherlands using Sociocracy to facilitate dialogue and consent-based decisions amongst students and educators.
How to follow Marianne:
- Twitter: @WonderingSchool
More resources:
- http://www.wonderingschool.org/
- https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/school-circles-documentary-film#/
- http://www.freire.org/paulo-freire/
- My blog about ESBZ, the radical school in Berlin we talk about
Marin Petrov and Christian Haniszewski have worked at some of the most creative companies in the world but wanted to create their own company with freedom at its core. Thus, Hack and Paint was born. I talked to Marin, Christian and three of their teammates, Martina Petkov, Miglena Chervenkova, and Stefan Doychev, about the challenges of working in a self-managing team, especially when no one is based in the same country. In particular, we talk about the importance of personal development, being human, and their experiences of Holacracy practices.
How to follow Hack and Paint:
- Twitter: @hackandpaint
More resources:
- An Everyone Culture (the book Marin references)
- The Self-Management Hype: Aren’t We Just Reinventing the Wheel? (the post by the Corporate Rebels I mention)
- Work Rules! by Laszlo Bock
Doug Kirkpatrick, co-founder of The Self-Management Institute, original team member of Morning Star and author of “Beyond Empowerment”, shares his insights about common misconceptions of self-management, what it really takes to have self-management work, and the example of Haier (the largest appliance manufacturer in the world) in China which is organised into 4,000 self-managing teams.
How to follow Doug:
- Twitter: @Redshifter3
More resources:
- Doug’s book “Beyond Empowerment: The Age of the Self-Managed Organization”
- The 12 Keys to the Workplace of the Future (Huffington post blog)
- ”Haier Elevation” – Doug’s blog about Haier for The Huffington Post
- Book: “Freedom and Accountability” by Peter Koestenbaum and Peter Block
- Book: “Conversations for Action and Collected Essays” by Fernando Flores
Ed Gonsalves has spent more than two decades studying the concept of play and specialises in designing senior executive programmes for high performance teams in entrepreneurial and large organisations. Is it possible to discover new paradigms of working and leading by incorporate unstructured play into our learning experiences? What do carnaval, prisons and nature have to do with self-managing teams? Ed, an associate professor at Toulouse Business School, Barcelona and the co-founder of The Cooplexity Institute, shares what he has learnt.
How to follow Ed:
- On Twitter: @EddyGonsalves
More resources:
- 'The Land' (Erin Davis, 2015) – a short documentary film about the nature of play, risk and hazard set in a "adventure” playground in North Wales
- Contact us for further resources and references about play and organisational learning (Ed being an academic, he has plenty!)
Karin has been experimenting with employee-driven organisations and self-managing teams since the nineties. She shares the approach she’s developed which involves “giving all of the authority away” and then coaching people in a higher level of communication skills, resulting in radical and rapid transformations.
Listen to learn about how she transformed nearly a dozen companies and the successes (and failures) she encountered along the way.
How to follow Karin:
- On Twitter: @ktenelius
Website: http://karintenelius.com/
IT infrastructure company Schuberg Philis has over 250 people and no managers. Lotta Croiset van Uchelen, Chief DNA Officer, and Daniela Resch, Wellbeing Researcher, talk about how engineers are organised in self-steering teams. They share examples of practices that are “hygienic”, dynamic systems as well as what the well-being researchers are discovering about current challenges and areas for improvement.
How to follow Lotta and Daniela:
Check out their culture blogs at https://stories.schubergphilis.com/
Samantha Slade is the cofounder of Percolab, an international community of companies interested in exploring what the future of organisations can be. Based in Montreal, Canada, she is writing a book on the seven practices to help organisations become more horizontal and rewire us for self-management.
In this episode, she shares some insights from the book; her journey as the cofounder of a living systems, self-managing organisation; and her thoughts on how it’s possible to reinvent financial models in business, including self-set salaries.
How to follow Samantha:
- Twitter: @Sam5
Helen Sanderson is a leader of several social enterprises specialising in “person-centred care.” She shares her story of stepping back as CEO of her company HSA to create a self-managing team and all the leadership and culture challenges they encountered along the way. Helen also announces a new and exciting project which involves self-managed well-being teams, à la Buurtzorg in the Netherlands, with an ambitious mission to scale from six to 600 in under three years. And beneath all of this is a deeply personal sense of purpose...
How to follow Helen:
- Twitter: @HelenHSAUK
- Website: helensandersonassociates.co.uk
Other resources:
- Helen’s podcast on SoundCloud
Paul Taylor, as a ‘Lab Coach’ at social enterprise Bromford, is on a mission to change how organisations perceive failure. Inspired by radical, self-management pioneers like healthcare company Buurtzorg, he shares some of the working-out-loud experiments he’s been running to innovate product and service development and reinvent management.
How to follow Paul:
- Twitter: @PaulBromford
- Website: https://paulitaylor.com/
Other resources:
-
Bromford’s publicly accessible Trello board
-
Team of Teams website
Joost Minnaar shares his insights from visiting more than 50 of the most inspiring workplaces around the world. Appalled by the statistic that only 13% of employees worldwide are engaged at work, Joost co-founded The Corporate Rebels to make work more fun. We talk about The Corporate Rebels Canvas, supportive leadership, why we should be wary of the latest organisational fads, and how to involve employees in running experiments in your company to create an inspiring workplace.
How to follow Joost:
- Twitter: @corp_rebels
- Website: http://corporate-rebels.com/
Book(s) of the week:
- Check out The Corporate Rebels’ favourite books here
Other resources:
- Download The Corporate Rebels Canvas
- Check out the moodforce app Joost mentioned
- The Jurgen Appelo article we talk about on “the right time for organisational dictatorship”
David is the cofounder of digital marketing company Cyberclick in Barcelona organised around happiness. Far from being a gimmick, though, he has developed ways of measuring happiness and creating a self-managing company where people can find fulfillment at work. We talk about the power of habit, scaleup companies and inspiring Mondays.
How to follow David:
- Twitter: @davidtomas
- Website: http://www.davidtomas.com/
Book of the week:
- Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler
Relevant links:
- David’s “Lunes Inspiradores” podcast
- The Power of Habit website
Tom Nixon is an entrepreneur and coach who works with founders to help them realise their ideas, and supports organisations to reconnect them to their purpose. We talk about his latest venture Maptio which is a mapping tool for self-managing organisations. How do you avoid creative entropy as your company grows? How do you get people to step into their responsibility? What is the role of the founder or CEO?
How to follow Tom:
- Twitter: @tomnixon
- Website: https://tomnixon.co.uk/
Book of the week:
- Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Laloux (again!)
Relevant links:
- Register to get access to the Maptio beta
- Tom’s blog about resolving the awkward paradox in Frederic Laloux’s Reinventing Organisations
Francesca Pick is a project manager, consultant and speaker that works on how tech can change business, society and human interaction. She is a Connector at OuiShare, which she describes as a lab for new ways of working, and her latest project is Cobudget, a collaborative funding tool. We talk about practices she and her colleagues have developed at OuiShare like Minimum Viable Bureaucracy and we debate whether organisations with no hierarchies exist.
How to follow Francesca:
- Twitter: @francescapick
- Website: http://www.francescapick.com/
Book of the week:
- Reinventing Organizations: An Illustrated Invitation to Join the Conversation on Next-Stage Organizations by Frederic Laloux and Etienne Appert
Relevant links:
- Click here to buy tickets for OuiShare Fest in Paris, 5th-7th July
- Here’s the thought-provoking blog we talk about by Francesca: Cut the bullshit: organisations with no hierarchy don’t exist
This episode features Jurriaan Kamer, the founder of Agile CIO and member of The Ready. He helps organisations become adaptive, responsive, self-organising ecosystems by implementing new practices, structures, rhythms and technologies that enable transparency, openness, innovation and a progressive way of leading. We talk about agile, leadership and whether we need managers at all.
How to follow Jurriaan:
- Twitter: @agile_cio
- Website: http://www.agilecio.net/
Book(s) of the week:
- "Lean Change Management: Innovative Practices For Managing Organizational Change" by Jason Little
- "How Google Works” by Eric Schmidt & Jonathan Rosenberg
- “Reinventing Organisations” by Frederic Laloux
Other resources:
- Here’s Jurriaan’s blog: You will not become agile by implementing scrum
- And here’s the OS Canvas by The Ready mentioned in the episode
- This is Jurrian’s post about Schuberg Philis, the self-managing IT company with 200+ employees
Susan Basterfield is a Foundation Catalyst and Ambassador within the self-managing collective Enspiral and helps individuals and organisations worldwide experiment with new ways of working and being. She is also co-author of Reinventing Startups and has developed a a five-week immersive online programme called Practical Self-Management Intensive. We talk about self-management and learning through doing.
How to follow Susan:
- Twitter: @opentogrow
- Blog: https://medium.com/@opentogrow
- Website: http://opentogrow.co.nz/
Book of the week:
- “An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organisation” by Robert Kegan & Lisa Laskow Lahey
Other resources:
- Susan's latest Practical Self-Management Intensive course
- Here’s the website for Loomio, the collaborative decision-making tool Susan mentions they use in the self-management intensive
- Susan's blog about Enspiral's organisational refactor
- Here’s Jo Freeman’s piece on The Tyranny of Structurelessness
- The quote I mentioned (“Relationship work... is one of our evolutionary assignments”) comes from the book “Everything is Workable: A Zen Approach to Conflict Resolution” by Diane Musho Hamilton
- To learn more about Enspiral and how their Catalyst working group is set up, check out the Enspiral Handbook
My guest this episode is Perry Timms, author of the book "Transformational HR" and a practitioner who has spent the last twenty years in technology, organisational change and HR. He is also a global and TEDx speaker on the future of work, and a WorldBlu® certified Freedom at Work Consultant and Coach, helping organisations work in more liberated, democratic ways. We talk about what the future of HR, and work, could look like.
How to follow Perry:
- Twitter: @perrytimms
- Website: http://www.pthr.co.uk/
Book(s) of the week:
- “The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization” by Peter Senge
- “The Seventh Sense: Power, Fortune, and Survival in the Age of Networks” by Joshua Cooper Ramo
Other resources:
- Perry's book "Transformational HR"
- Perry's fantastic TEDx talk, “The Future of Work”
- The “Indian woman” I (rather ignorantly!) referred to in the podcast, interviewed in the documentary “Before the Flood”, is Sunita Narain. Here’s a link for more about her
