Money and the Mind: Recent Episodes
Andy Koepp and Aaron Sailer
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On this show, we explore personal finance, psychology, and provide resources to help on your financial journey. Hosted by Andy, a mental health therapist, and Aaron, an accountant.
Well…it’s here. Our last episode. We so appreciate our listeners and guests and couldn’t have kept the show going without you all!
Audio outro: Earnest Jackson, Sugar Daddy and the Gumbo Roux, “Inflation”
Audio outro: Never half-ass two things
Links:
Welcome to Group Therapy podcast
Money and the Mind website
Money and the Mind playlist
Intro music by David von Kampen
Andy and Aaron discuss recent economic conditions that might give rise to financial stress, including interest rates, inflation, and markets going down. Andy also walks through some financial therapy that’s been helpful to clients.
Audio outro: Fall Out Boy, “Sugar, We’re Goin Down”
Intro music by David von Kampen
Andy is on his own this week to share general therapeutic insights that his clients have found helpful. Topics include staying present, guided imagery, structuring time, writing a letter and destroying it, listing values, self-appreciation, vulnerability with money, reviewing expectations, internal validation, breathing, ups and downs of markets as a mental health analogy, thinking vs. knowing, boundaries, and more!
Audio outro: The Killers, “Andy, You’re A Star”
Audio outro: Parks and Recreation, “That’ll do, Andrew”
Intro music by David von Kampen
Andy and Aaron discuss a listener's email about Dave Ramsey, when criticism becomes shame, and in the back half of the episode tackle the topic of personal responsibility and how to form meaningful connections.
Audio outro: Dave Matthews Band, “Two Step”
Links:
Brene Brown
Why Checklist-Style Financial Planning Works: What Advisors Can Learn From Dave Ramsey's Baby Steps
Millennial Mental Health Channel: Two Men Being Vulnerable About Their Struggles With Weight and Body Image on Apple Podcasts
Intro music by David von Kampen
Andy and Aaron discuss “good” and “bad” emotions, avoidance, “God has a plan,” toxic positivity and money beliefs, a false sense of self, the importance of action, radical acceptance, Ted Lasso’s toxic positivity, and more.
Audio outro: Britney Spears, “Toxic”
Links:
The Dangers of Toxic Positivity (And How to Avoid It) | Jordan Harbinger
Toxic Positivity: Keeping It Real in a World Obsessed with Being Happy by Whitney Goodman
Sam Bankman-Fried and the FTX collapse, explained
Man's Search for Meaning a book by Viktor E. Frankl
Intro music by David von Kampen
Andy and Aaron are back (we apologize for the lack of shows of late!). We discuss Dave Ramsey, student loan relief, how often finances come up in Andy’s therapy sessions, what does success mean to you?, listening to your body, what we’ve been spending money and time on lately, and more!
Audio outro: Maggie Rogers, “Symphony”
Links:
The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma
You should always keep a $100 bill in your wallet
Intro music by David von Kampen
We took a summer break, but we’re back with psychologist and sleep expert Dr. Kristen Casey! We discuss anxiety's impact on sleep, reframing, sleepiness vs. tiredness, ways to help fall asleep, sleep debt, Dr. Casey’s money stories, whether jet skis can cure depression, what makes you amazing, dreams, why people might wake up in the middle of the night and not fall back asleep, and more!
(Note: Multiple instances of language throughout.)
Audio outro: Stars, “Asleep”
Links:
Dr. Casey on Instagram
Dr. Casey on TikTok
Millennial Mental Health Channel (feat. Dr. Justin Romano and Eddie Carillo)
Dr. Casey episode on MMHC
The Money with Katie Show: Victim vs. Victor mindset episode
Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker
Intro music by David von Kampen
Dr. Brad Klontz joins the show to discuss misinformation around money and mental health, the near impossibility of successful day trading, cryptocurrency, how the wealthy approach investing, harmful money advice on social media, the best way to motivate people to save, and more!
Audio outro: The Black Keys, “For the Love of Money”
Intro music by David von Kampen
Links:
Dr. Brad Klontz website
Money Mindset YouTube channel
Dr. Klontz on TikTok
Money Mammoth book
Mind Over Money book
Research articles
Find your Money Script
Money and the Mind Ep40 with Dr. Klontz
Bio from Dr. Klontz’s website (lightly edited):
Bradley T. Klontz, Psy.D., CFP is a Co-Founder of the Financial Psychology Institute and an Associate Professor of Practice in Financial Psychology at Creighton University Heider College of Business. He is a Managing Principal of Your Mental Wealth Advisors, a Fellow of the American Psychological Association, and a Former President of the Hawaii Psychological Association. He has partnered with organizations including Capital One, JP Morgan Chase, Mutual of Omaha, and H&R Block in efforts to help raise public awareness around issues related to financial health and financial psychology.
Dr. Klontz was awarded the Innovative Practice Presidential Citation from the American Psychological Association for his application of psychological interventions to help people with money and wealth issues and his innovative practice in financial psychology for practitioners across the country.
Dr. Klontz has been a columnist for the Journal of Financial Planning, On Wall Street, and PsychologyToday.com, and has co-authored/co-edited six books on the psychology of money.
His work has been featured on ABC News’ 20/20, Good Morning America, USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Time, Kiplinger’s, Money Magazine, NPR, and many others.
Dave Hoppen is the all-time leading scorer for the Nebraska Cornhuskers men’s basketball program and played six seasons in the NBA. For the past 26 years, Dave has managed client investment portfolios in his hometown of Omaha. We discuss his experience as a professional athlete, receiving large checks, money behaviors of fellow players, starting an investment management business, playing on a team with Charles Barkley, and more!
Audio outro: Quad City DJ’s, “Space Jam”
Links:
Berkshire Hathaway shareholder letters
Acura Legend
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Intro music by David von Kampen
Friend of the show Terp re-joins Andy and Aaron to discuss cryptocurrency as an inflationary hedge, which stage we’re (potentially) in of the crypto cycle, smart contracts, Terp’s crypto mining, the impact on electricity/power sources, proof of work vs. proof of stake, talking to (some) farmers about crypto, and more! PLEASE NOTE: Terp doesn't think all farmers are "nutcases"!
Audio outro: Band of Horses, “Warning Signs”
Links:
Ep46: Mining for Crypto
WeCrashed
Invest Like the Best: Hash Power podcast episodes
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron (Ron) discuss Aaron’s cryptocurrency adventure, Andy’s use of stock market charts in therapy sessions, mental accounting, sports betting, and more.
Audio outro: Kenny Rogers, “The Gambler”
Links:
Tim Ferris interview with Morgan Housel
The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel
Content warning: Addiction, drugs, and suicidal thoughts mentioned throughout.
Our friend Nick joins the show to share his story of addiction, suicidal thoughts, and insomnia - to let others with similar struggles know that you are not alone.
If you need help, please call a suicide hotline. In the U.S., call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 any time of day — press "1" to reach the Veterans Crisis Line or use Lifeline Chat.
Audio outro: The Band of Heathens, “Hurricane”
Links:
Money and the Mind Ep25: Financial Stress and Suicide
Monsters by Dan van Voorhis (A story similar to Nick’s)
Attorney Josiah Shanks joins Andy and Aaron to discuss the basics of wills and estate plans, holographic wills, why people avoid creating a will, the tendency for conflict over assets, and more.
Andy and Aaron discuss the basics of bipolar disorder by way of a real situation, money beliefs (scripts), how money scripts don’t always align with financial behavior, and ways to help.
Audio outro: Nirvana, “Lithium”
Links:
Millennial Mental Health Channel podcast: Bipolar disorder
Klontz Money Script Inventory
Ep15: Managing Impulsivity with Dr. Justin Romano
Ep8: Satisfying Spending
Note: This episode mentions abuse throughout.
Kelly (IG: @fireroundtheworld) joins Andy and Aaron to discuss her experience with financial abuse, how some faith traditions enable abusive marriages/relationships, gaslighting, how to identify signs of abuse and red flags, how to help, and more.
Links:
Instagram: fireroundtheworld
Ep37 with Kelly & Jeff
Wilderness to WILD
Kelly's recommendations:
Healing from Hidden Abuse: A Journey Through the Stages of Recovery from Psychological Abuse
The Emotionally Destructive Marriage: How to Find Your Voice and Reclaim Your Hope
Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good For You and Avoid Those That Aren't
Necessary Endings: The Employees, Businesses, and Relationships That All of Us Have to Give Up in Order to Move Forward
Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman's Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
Out of Sorts: Making Peace with an Evolving Faith
Andy and Aaron reflect on 2021, discussing our amazing guests, what we learned, starting a therapy practice, the guilt of a car purchase, our favorite books/games/movies/shows, and more.
Audio outro: Jungle, “Busy Earnin’”
Andy and Aaron are joined by Nathan Astle (Certified Financial Therapist) to discuss how to become a financial therapist, Nate’s formative money experiences, shame, financial infidelity, couples therapy (“It’s not about the dish”), “shame is the enemy of change,” and more.
Audio outro: Information Society, “What’s on Your Mind (Pure Energy)”
Links:
Nathan Astle, MS, LMFT, CFT-I™ - Founder - Relational Money
Relational Money
Andy and Aaron discuss the Netflix hit show by looking at the psychology behind the characters’ money-related decisions, blood money, desperation, the problematic “just get a job” belief, homelessness, and more. Spoilers abound!
Links:
Last Week Tonight: Homelessness (crude humor alert)
Five Tropes Local TV News Uses to Dehumanize Homeless People
Andy and Aaron are joined by Tim Malm to discuss his experience with payday lending, shame, Disneyworld vs. deck repairs, “as soon as you run out of money, everything’s a crisis,” being comfortable with not knowing something, the power of empathy, and more.
Audio outro: The White Stripes, “Bone Broke”
Links:
“Are We Sure This is Good?” podcast
How Do I Get out of Payday Loan Debt?
Nebraska becomes the latest state to cap payday loan interest rates (Nov. 2020)
Aaron and Andy on the Millennial Mental Health Channel
Five Tropes Local TV News Uses to Dehumanize Homeless People
Andy and Aaron discuss the fear of opening up one’s own practice, good networking vs. not-good networking, hidden contracts, the financial benefit of friends, Ted Lasso, and more.
Note: A few instances of language in the back half of this episode. Also, my microphone must not have been working correctly, so apologies for low sound quality.
Audio outro: Led Zeppelin, “Friends”
Links:
“Are We Sure This is Good?” podcast
Jordan Harbinger 6 Minute Networking
Aaron goes solo for this short episode on reducing complexity and adding meaning.
Links:
Living A Happier (Financial) Life By Deliberately Choosing "Less" by Meghaan Lurtz (Article from Kitces.com; the paper copy I was working from didn’t include a byline so I didn’t properly attribute Meghaan during the recording.)
Dr. Mallinson episode
Strangers in Paradise: How Families Adapt to Wealth Across Generations by Dr. James Grubman
Audio outro: Phantogram, “Into Happiness”
We are joined by the Millennial Mental Health Channel hosts Eddie Carrillo, LPC, and returning guest Dr. Justin Romano in this crossover episode. We discuss the wonders of the brain, the prefrontal cortex and decision-making, client financial struggles and the health care/insurance industry, helping with impulsivity, young people and financial “disorders,” and more.
(Hang on to the very end for a surprise.)
Links:
Millennial Mental Health Channel on Apple Podcasts
Nebraska Football Nerdcast
NYT: The Therapy Generation
Managing Impulsivity episode
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron dive into Aaron’s own impulsive spending habit as a faux-exercise in a therapeutic approach (noting Andy’s important caveats at the beginning). We discuss justifying purchases, guilt-free spending, displays of status in high school, and more!
Audio outro: Arcade Fire, “Everything Now”
Pictured: Aaron's dog with the new T-Mac 2 shoes.
Content warning: We talk about trauma in this episode.
Andy and Aaron discuss trauma and whether anyone hasn’t experienced it, a story of someone consumed with money, how Andy might respond to this person’s story in therapy sessions, ways to help, and more.
Audio outro: Hazel English, “Make It Better”
Links:
Ramit Tweet with story
Millennial Mental Health Channel
Financial Flashpoints episode
FI/RE episode
Kevin Love’s story: “Everyone Is Going Through Something”
Ted Lasso
FreshStart.llc
Financial coach Scott Aspelin joins the show to discuss what financial coaching even is, common financial stressors, Scott’s own financial stress story, celebrating financial achievements, the “C’s,” an anecdotal link between financial success and therapy, finding a financial coach, and more.
Audio outro: Rebelution, “De-Stress”
Link: Aspelin Financial Coaching
Facebook page
Email Scott: scott@aspelinfinancialcoach.com
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron discuss what they’ve learned over the course of the show so far, whether it’s possible to be objective, why some wealthy people bother to use social media, money-related hopes for the next 5-10 years, and more.
Audio outro: Barrett Strong, “Money (That’s What I Want)”
Links:
Empower Omaha
Friend of the show Terp joins Andy and Aaron to discuss a brief history of currency, the rule of 72, the basics of cryptocurrency, what it means to “mine,” Terp’s mining venture, Terp sends Andy a Litecoin in real time, tax implications, volatility, risks, how to avoid a scam if you’re interested in mining, and more!
(Note 1: Apologies for missing our most recent biweekly episode; we had some issues with our audio files and they weren’t recoverable.)
(Note 2: We mentioned that no crypto exchange traded fund is available. While true in the U.S., crypto ETFs do exist internationally; Terp mentions one called Grayscale. See the “How to” link below.)
Audio outro: Foo Fighters, “Ballad Of The Beaconsfield Miners”
Links:
Coinbase
How To Buy A Bitcoin ETF
IMDB: Banking on Bitcoin documentary
Satoshi paper
Invest Like the Best: Hash Power podcast episodes
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Dr. Kristy Archuleta joins Andy and Aaron to discuss growing up on a farm, development of financial therapy as a (relatively) new academic study, the intensity of financial arguments, is a lack of arguments in a relationship healthy?, financial vulnerability, the benefits of self talk and taking a walk, a separate bank accounts success story, conflicts in estate planning and wills, strategies for conflict resolution, women in farming, and more!
(Apologies for a few instances of choppy audio.)
Audio outro: The Head and the Heart, “Take a Walk”
Links:
Kristy Archuleta | UGA
Journal of Financial Therapy
"Knives Out" trailer
Women Managing the Farm
Bio (lightly edited):
Dr. Kristy Archuleta is a Professor in the Financial Planning program at the University of Georgia, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and a Certified Financial Therapist-I™. Prior to joining the faculty at UGA in 2018, she was an Associate Professor and Program Director of the Personal Financial Planning program at Kansas State University. Her research and teaching interests relate to financial therapy, couples and money, and effective mechanisms to improve financial and overall well-being. She has co-edited two books: Financial Planning and Scales and Financial Therapy: Theory, Theory, Research, and Practice and published numerous scholarly articles.
Dr. Archuleta is a co-founding board member and Past-President of the Financial Therapy Association, co-founding Editor of the Journal of Financial Therapy, and a co-founder of Women Managing the Farm. She serves on the Board of Directors for the National Association of Personal Financial Advisors and the National Consumer Education Foundation, the Financial Therapy Association Certification Committee, and the Editorial Boards for Financial Planning Review, Journal of Financial Planning, and Korean Financial Planning Review. She is commonly featured in podcasts and major news media outlets, such as the New York Times, Investment News, and CNBC, to name a few. Her cutting-edge research contributions, along with her co-authors, have been recognized with awards such as the 2019 National Endowment for Education sponsored Research to Practice Outstanding AFCPE Conference Paper Award and the Outstanding Journal Article Award given at the Association for Financial Counseling and Planning Education annual conference in 2014 and 2020. Dr. Archuleta is a recipient of the Kansas State University College of Human Ecology Myers-Alford Outstanding Teaching Award and the Oklahoma State University College of Human Sciences Distinguished Alumna Award.
Real estate broker and friend Sarah Wilkinson joins Andy and Aaron to discuss the wild real estate market, the best way to get an accurate market value of your home, what to know about buying a home and picking a realtor, behaviors of prospective buyers, and more.
We set the over/under for “The Office” references at five - how many will we hit?
(Note: We'll be back to every-other-week episodes after this.)
Audio outro: Talking Heads, “This Must Be The Place (Naive Melody)”
Links:
Emerald Realty on Instagram
Linktree: Emerald Realty
Real Estate Right Now | Holderness Family Vlogs
The Take2 Foundation
Homefield Apparel
The Cabin Land on Instagram
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Dr. Jeff Mallinson joins Andy and Aaron in this jam-packed episode to discuss his family financial history, the dangerous combination of power and money, Christian schools and communities, the organism-like behavior of systems, cryptocurrency, financial tendencies of cult victims, Dave Ramsey, the ethics of debt, living a minimalist lifestyle, selling an underwater-mortgage house in the 2008 real estate crash, traveling and camping in a van, the dream van/vehicle, and more.
Note: The campsite mentioned in the show (which we couldn’t think of in real time) is called Streeter Park in Aurora, Nebraska, and features free camping, free electrical hookups, and more.
Audio intro: Lana Del Rey, “Money Power Glory”
Audio outro: David von Kampen, “Aurora” (feat. Andrea von Kampen)
Links:
Jeff Mallinson.com
Dr. Mallinson on Twitter
Protect Your Noggin website
Protect Your Noggin podcast
The Christian Difference: An Explanation & Comparison of World Religions
Virtue in the Wasteland podcast
ViW: Antiwisdom episode
Boondockers Welcome: Boondocking and Free RV Camping
RV Camping with Harvest Hosts
Mitsubishi Delica
Bio (lightly edited):
Dr. Mallinson is the Professor & Chair of History and Political Thought at Concordia University, Irvine. He has a D. Phil. from Oxford University and is a speaker, podcaster, and writer. He specializes in the history of ideas, especially as they shed light on the ways in which religious and philosophical ideas can both emancipate and enslave people. In addition to several scholarly book chapters and articles, he is author of Sexy: The Quest for Erotic Virtue in Perplexing Times (New Reformation Press, 2017), Faith, Reason, and Revelation in Theodore Beza: 1519-1605 (Oxford University Press, 2003), and associate editor of The Encyclopedia of Luther and the Reformation (Rowman & Littlefield, 2017). He is focused these days on rethinking the methods of religious education and outfoxing religious wolves, which is the mission of his podcast and curriculum called Protect Your Noggin, co-hosted with his wife Stacie. He is the faculty in residence for Concordia's Honors Living and Learning Community. For fun, he enjoys writing poetry and long-term boondocking in a truck bed camper, and developing a small off-grid farm in rural San Diego County.
Andy and Aaron discuss what leads to burnout, apathy, signs of stress, validity of emotions, Dave Ramsey, how to work through the stress cycle, the best help for stress, applications to personal finance, and more.
Links:
Brené Brown with Emily and Amelia Nagoski on Burnout
Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle
Kelly McGonigal interview: The Upside of Stress
Tony Vincent joins the show to discuss his journey to self-employment, challenges and stresses, setting your business apart from others, imposter syndrome, Tony’s favorite classroom tool, and more!
Links:Follow Tony on Twitter
Shapegrams
Learning in HandTony Vincent (@learninginhand) - Instagram
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Dr. Brad Klontz joins the show to discuss early money memories, how we’re wired to make poor financial decisions (and why that’s empowering), what separates the wealthy from the ultra-wealthy, teaching young people, the usefulness of understanding Money Scripts and financial flashpoints, money avoidance, workaholism, a simple tactic for saving, and more!
Links:Dr. Brad Klontz website
Money Mindset YouTube channel
Dr. Klontz on TikTok
Dr. Klontz’s new Money Mammoth book
Mind Over Money book
Research articles
Financial Health Academy
Find your Money Script
Sprinter vansFinancial Flashpoints episode
Money Scripts episode
Send us an email!moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Bio from Dr. Klontz’s website (lightly edited):
Bradley T. Klontz, Psy.D., CFP is a Co-Founder of the Financial Psychology Institute and an Associate Professor of Practice in Financial Psychology atCreighton University HeiderCollege of Business. He is a Managing Principal ofYour Mental WealthAdvisors, a Fellowof the American Psychological Association, and a Former President of the Hawaii Psychological Association. He has partnered with organizations including Capital One, JP Morgan Chase, Mutual of Omaha, and H&R Block in efforts to help raise public awareness around issues related to financial health and financial psychology.
Dr. Klontz was awarded the Innovative Practice Presidential Citation from the American Psychological Association for his application of psychological interventions to help people with money and wealth issues and his innovative practice in financial psychology for practitioners across the country.
Dr. Klontz has been a columnist for the Journal of Financial Planning, On Wall Street, and PsychologyToday.com, and has co-authored/co-edited six books on the psychology of money.
His work has been featured on ABC News’ 20/20, Good Morning America, USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Time, Kiplinger’s, Money Magazine, NPR, and many others.
Andy and Aaron discuss the progression from dopamine to buyer's remorse, regret vs. shame, rumination, purchases that tend to lead to remorse, and more.
Resources:
Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke
Your Money and Your Brain by Jason Zweig
Investing: The Greatest Show On Earth | Morgan Housel
The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less by Barry Schwartz
The power of low expectations | Get Rich Slowly
Andy and Aaron discuss jealousy, the FIRE community, checking your bank account daily, “no such thing” as a negative emotion, Brené Brown’s work regarding vulnerability, and more.
Resources:Warren Buffett’s shareholder lettersBrené Brown websiteBrené Brown on Empathy vs SympathyBrené with Tim Ferriss and Dax Shepard
Kelly and Jeff (IG: @fireroundtheworld) join Andy and Aaron to talk about FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) and their personal example of supercharged savings. We discuss community, transparency, comparison to others, psychological benefits, financial infidelity, issues with early retirement, knowing your “why,” the usefulness of index funds, pay off the mortgage early?, and more!
Links:Instagram: fireroundtheworldHoneyfi | Couples financesYNAB. Personal Budgeting SoftwareEqual Partners PodcastVanguard Total Stock Market Index fundVanguard Total Stock Market ETFMr. Money MustacheThe Simple Path to Wealth by JL CollinsFIRE is cool! How do I do it?
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Financial advisor Nick Combs joins Andy and Aaron to discuss how to find an advisor, what it means to be a fiduciary, generational differences in managing investments, home buying, whether refinancing is always a good idea, and more.
Links:The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and HappinessUncle Eric series by Richard MayburyThe Clipper Ship Strategy by Richard Maybury
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron discuss the wildness that is GameStop, missing out on big investment gains, the psychology of FOMO, JOMO (the joy of missing out), closing the gap between ideal self and true self, and more!
Resource:
Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke
Professor Victoria Haneman joins Andy and Aaron to discuss funerals and the death care industry. Professor Haneman is the Frank J. Kellegher Professor of Trusts & Estates at Creighton University in Omaha.
We discuss:
-America's discomfort with death
-Issues with the death care industry
-Alternative (and less expensive) funeral technology
-Options when trying to pay for a funeral
-The problem with GoFundMe campaigns
-Body brokers
-Who spends the most on funerals?
-The most important thing in preparing for funeral expenses
-Does an open casket provide "closure"?
Links:
"Funeral Poverty" paper
“Tax Incentives for Green Burial” paper
Link to Professor Haneman’s articles
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Aaron discusses the best money book of 2020, whether anyone knows what their goals are, buying time, traits of the financially successful, when 8% beats 12%, and more!
Resources/Links:
The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness
Possibilities-Based Planning Instead Of Goals-Based Investing
The Behavior Gap: Simple Ways to Stop Doing Dumb Things with Money
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron discuss the COVID vaccine, questions to ask your partner when making money decisions, separate vs. joint bank accounts, “fun money” accounts, information asymmetry, financial infidelity, understanding your own and your partner’s money scripts, behavior in pursuit of meeting needs, and more!
Resources/Links:
Money Scripts episode
Take the Klontz Money Script Inventory
Paper: Money Behavior Inventory
Loaded: Money, Psychology, and How to Get Ahead Without Leaving Your Values Behind
How a Weekly Marriage Meeting Can Strengthen Your Relationship
Equal Partners Podcast
Animal Spirits pod: How to Start Your Financial Life
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron discuss a real-life purchasing conundrum, how needs can sometimes be met with buying “stuff,” experiences and “stuff” not always being mutually exclusive, and more!
Resources/Links:
The Wirecutter
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron discuss Roth and traditional retirement accounts, why both are good, and why one might be a better choice from a behavioral perspective.
Resources/Links:
A Behavioral Case for the Roth IRA — Money and the Mind
Nerdwallet article on Roth IRA
Misbehaving by Richard Thaler
How to start investing with Vanguard — Money and the Mind
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron discuss how to have better money conversations, conversational pitfalls, a Schitt’s Creek connection, listening, silence, and more.
Resources/Links:
How to Have Better Conversations
The Psychology of Money: Timeless Lessons on Wealth, Greed, and Happiness
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
We take a brief hiatus this week, but we'll be back on our regular schedule for the next episode!
In the meantime, Andy discusses the importance of self care.28
Justin is back to discuss neurotransmitters (in an approachable manner!), including the basics of how they work, serotonin, potential financial behaviors from high/low levels, the effect of diet on our serotonin levels, norepinephrine and potential behaviors, oxytocin, and more!
(For reasons unknown, microphone quality was substandard and a slight ringing sound occurred throughout this one. We apologize for the less-than-stellar audio.)
Resources/Links:
Millennial Mental Health Channel
How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan
Mind Your Own Podcast | It’s Ok to Not Be Ok
Charles Schwab | Invest in stock slices
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Andy and Aaron discuss emergency savings, the “sleep test” framework, what an emergency could mean, human inertia, retirement savings, “short term pain for long term gain,” target retirement funds (the only fund you’ll ever need), guilt vs. shame, and more.
Resources/Links:
Personal Finance 101 episode (NOT necessary to listen to first)
The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel
Michael Kitces: Buying Happiness & Well-Being With Cash-On-Hand Reserves
Animal Spirits podcast: Everything You Need to Know About Retirement
How to Vanguard (step-by-step instructions for opening a Vanguard account and automating contributions to a target retirement fund)
Brené Brown (website) → podcast
Heads up: This episode is about suicide.
If you need help, please call a suicide hotline. In the U.S., call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255 any time of day — press "1" to reach the Veterans Crisis Line or use Lifeline Chat
On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss:
-Suicidal ideation versus suicidal intent
-COVID’s impact on suicidal thought
-The link between debt and suicide
-The impact of trauma
-Suicidal ideation or intent despite no past mental illness
-Preventive factors
-Your situation and thoughts matter
-Empathy vs. sympathy
-Signs to look for
(Note: My mic picked up way more sound than I thought - you’ll hear my dog playing ball at the beginning, but he finds another adventure after a few minutes. -Aaron)
Resources/Links:
AFSP: Home
Suicide Deaths in the United States
Mental Health, Substance Use, and Suicidal Ideation During the COVID-19 Pandemic
impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on suicide rates
COVID-19 (coronavirus) and the risk of suicide
Report: Financial difficulty and suicide - Money and Mental Health
Suicide and Debt: The Link We Can No Longer Ignore
Mind Over Money by Brad and Ted Klontz (the Kindle version is the only easy access, unfortunately)
Your Money and Your Brain by Jason Zweig
Brené Brown podcast “Unlocking Us”
Andy and Aaron share some personal experiences and mistakes with buying a house, expenses when you have children, pet expenses, buying vs. leasing cars, fun money accounts, investing in children’s education, and more!
Resources/Links:
Loaded: Money, Psychology, and How to Get Ahead Without Leaving Your Values Behind by Sarah Newcomb
Andy and Aaron are joined by mental health therapist Payton Hogan to discuss the importance of community, financial messaging received while growing up, perceptions of mental health in the Black community, evictions, income and education disparities, systemic racism, the Tulsa race massacre, the “crab effect,” gentrification, the importance of learning about money early, how to help regarding racism in America, and more.
Resources/Links:
DREAM : Home
New study links Omaha evictions to racial segregation and disparities (potential paywall)
Life starring Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence
Black Wall Street massacre/Tulsa race massacre
Forty Million Dollar Slaves by William C. Rhoden
Terence “Bud” Crawford
Up from Slavery by Booker T. Washington
The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Du Bois
The Miseducation of the Negro by Carter G. Woodson
We Were Eight Years in Power by Ta-Nehisi Coates
The Destruction of Black Civilization by Chancellor Williams
Andy and Aaron discuss how little steps can help get on the road to better financial well-being, financial coaching, viewing yourself and your skills as an asset that generates income (as opposed to income coming from an external source), the importance of setting goals and spending in alignment with your values, actionable steps, and more!
Actionable steps begin at 30:42 (with one or two sprinkled in before that).
Resources/Links:
75 percent of Americans are winging it when it comes to their financial future
Money Advice Is Usually for Middle Class People, Not the Poor
Loaded: Money, Psychology, and How to Get Ahead Without Leaving Your Values Behind by Sarah Newcomb
29% of Americans are financially 'healthy'
Thinking, Fast and Slow
Acorns - Invest, Earn, Grow, Spend, Later | Acorns
Andy and Aaron are joined by therapist Miguel Estevez to discuss the diversity of the Latinx community and its financial culture, various ways to display status, the challenges of being undocumented, misconceptions and stereotypes, the trauma of extremely low income and uncertainty, workplace stress and anxiety working in industries hit by COVID, choosing a paycheck over safety and security, the ability to save for retirement, and more!
Resources/Links:
Open Veins of Latin America by Eduardo Galeano
Omaha Gives
Go Big Give
Andy and Aaron are joined once again by psychiatrist Dr. Justin Romano to discuss finances for doctors, the psychology of that first paycheck, delayed gratification, being rich vs. being wealthy, emergency savings, climbing out of poverty, high incomes, professional athletes and money, buying convenience, the benefits of having a mentor, and more!
Resources/Links:
Millennial Mental Health Channel
The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America’s Wealthy
Money Advice Is Usually for Middle Class People, Not the Poor
The Sudden Money Institute
The White Coat Investor - Investing & Personal Finance for Doctors
Aaron and Andy discuss the difficulty of behavior change, stages of readiness to change, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, wants vs. needs, non-financial ways to meet needs, financial conflict, and an example of how we don’t have all of this figured out either!
Actionable steps begin at 24:20.
Resources/Links:
Link to Dr. Daniel Crosby article
The Laws of Wealth by Daniel Crosby
Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City by Matthew Desmond
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs
Loaded: Money, Psychology, and How to Get Ahead Without Leaving Your Values Behind by Sarah Newcomb
How Tiny Habits Can Change Your Life
Send us an email: moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Articles to educate and learn how to help:The Real Reason White People Say 'All Lives Matter'Take an implicit bias testJustice in JuneBlack Workers, Already Lagging, Face Big Economic RisksSamuel Sinyangwe: Research-based solutions to stop police violence75 Things White People Can Do for Racial JusticeAnti-racism resources for white peopleHow The Crisis Is Making Racial Inequality WorseMovies to Watch to Educate Yourself About Racism, Protests | Time
Podcasts:The Breakdown with Shaun KingShaka Senghor | Writing My WrongsRatchet & Respectable
Books:The Miseducation of the Negro by Carter G WoodsonI Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya AngelouI’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness by Austin Channing BrownBetween the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi CoatesEvicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City by Matthew Desmond
Goldin Martinez and Frank Raffaele join the show to discuss their new hedge fund called The FOCUS Fund that will also have a positive impact on kids and their money. We discuss money messages received while growing up, helping kids have positive experiences with money, learning how to manage money, poverty, books, exercise, Goldin's appearance on Mike Rowe's show "Returning the Favor," and more!
Resources/Links:
Get Focused website (YouTube page)
COFFEED on Instagram
The FOCUS Fund on Instagram
Make Your Kid a Money Genius by Beth Kobliner
AoM podcast: Making Your Kid a Money Genius
Returning the Favor with Mike Rowe
Frank Raffaele on Instagram
Goldin Martinez on Instagram
thefocusfund.com (live after June 1, 2020)
Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom
Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefevre
A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel
Aaron and Andy discuss how interest on debt works, credit cards, student loan debt, mortgage debt, buying vs. renting, 30-year and 15-year mortgages, workplace retirement plans, other retirement/investing accounts, rollovers, and more!
Resources/Links:
You Need A Budget
Managing Your Money | Wirecutter
Vanguard
Betterment
A Behavioral Case for the Roth IRA
Loaded by Sarah Newcomb
Andy and Aaron are joined by Dr. Justin Romano, a psychiatrist resident at Creighton University and University of Nebraska Medical Center.
In this episode, we discuss:
-How our brain is wired for impulse control (or lack thereof)
-Dopamine
-Addiction
-How/why issues with the above can harm our finances
-How poverty and adverse childhood events could inhibit the ability to exercise impulse control
-Financial stress and anxiety in major economic downturns/world events
-Medication
-Psychosis
Actionable steps begin at 31:50.
Resources/Links:
Millennial Mental Health Channel
Marijuana Myths Busted - MMHC
Indistractable by Nir Eyal
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss investing in light of the pandemic and market volatility, with actionable steps throughout.
(Note: Richard Thaler won the The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel in 2017, a slight mistake from what is mentioned in the episode.)
Send us an email! moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Resources/Links:
The Little Book of Behavioral Investing
The Little Book of Common Sense Investing
Warren Buffett’s letters to shareholders
Investor Psychology, Part II: Following The Stock Market Is Bad For Your Returns
Short Investing Rules
Nick Maggiulli on Dollar Cost Averaging
Your Brain on $
Here’s Why Some Investors Panic. And Here’s How to Make Sure You Don’t. (potential paywall)
Andy and Aaron discuss the concept of money scripts. We’ve changed the format of the show to dive right in to the topic. Enjoy!
Actionable steps begin at 29:42.
Send us an email: moneyandthemind@gmail.com
Resources/Links:
Find your money script (Klontz Money Script Inventory)
Mind Over Money
Facilitating Financial Health
Money Beliefs and Financial Behaviors: Development of the Klontz Money Script Inventory
"RELIABILITY AND CONVERGENT VALIDITY OF THE KMSI-R" by Colby D. Taylor, Bradley Klontz et al.
YouTube: Money Scripts: The Psychology of Wealth
Journal of Financial Planning: How Clients' Money Scripts Predict Their Financial Behaviors
Andy and Aaron have a free-ranging conversation about the pandemic, its mental health and financial implications, and actionable steps to take.
Resources/Links (not all discussed but helpful):
Money and the Mind blog: The Deception of Swans
I'm here, to remind you
Creating an Overreaction Plan for the Coronavirus
Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now - Tomas Pueyo
Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance - Tomas Pueyo
Fighting the Coronavirus, and Individualism
It Takes a Village
Animal Spirits podcast
SuperBetter - Get Stronger, Happier and More Resilient
Words With Friends Classic on the App Store
Your Money: A Hub for Help During the Coronavirus Crisis
Andy and Aaron discuss:
-Andy’s perfected smoked pork
-The most rewatchable movies
-The number one conflict for couples (bet you can’t guess)
-Why is money such a volatile subject in a relationship context?
-Reddit post of a money conflict (via Twitter)
-Pooled and separate bank accounts
-Andy makes a big reveal
-Aaron’s two favorite personal finance frameworks
-Actionable steps and resources
-Aaron’s marriage money mistake
Topic discussion begins at 5:32
Actionable steps begin at 26:30
Resources/Links:
Mind Over Money by Brad Klontz and Ted Klontz
"A Conflict Resolution Framework for Money Arguments" by Sarah D. Asebedo
Armchair Expert w/ Gottman
The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work by John Gottman, Nan Silver
Eight Dates: Essential Conversations for a Lifetime of Love by John and Julie Gottman
7 Principles YouTube summary
Money and the Mind on Apple Podcasts
Journal of Financial Therapy links:
"Financial Management and Marital Quality" by Emily D. Baisden, Jonathan J. Fox et al.
"Marriage and Materialism" by Ashley B. LeBaron, David B. Allsop et al.
"Money, Sex, Stress and Marital Instability" by E. Jeffrey Hill, David B. Allsop et al.
"Financial Infidelity" by Michelle Jeanfreau, Kenji Noguchi et al.
"Financial Stress and Marital Quality" by Heather H. Kelley, Ashley B. LeBaron et al.
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss:
-Day trading during class (Tweet referenced was deleted)
-A financial flashpoint experience for Andy
-The psychology of an undercover FBI agent
-Trauma’s impact on the brain, physical effects
-Flashpoint examples
-Actionable steps and resources
Note - CBT: cognitive behavioral therapy; DBT: dialectical behavior therapy
Topic discussion begins at 12:17.
Actionable steps begin at 33:51.
Resources/Links:
The Body Keeps the Score
How unprocessed trauma is stored in the body
"Psychological Trauma and Personal Finance" by D. Bruce Ross III and Ed Coambs
Mind Over Money
Man’s Search for Meaning
Psychology Today: Find a therapist, psychologist, counselor
Millennial Mental Health Channel
Money and the Mind
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss:
-A cold open cameo from a special guest
-Music and memory
-Tendencies to buy discounts and rewards
-Store credit cards
-Socioeconomic status and impact on spending
-Hamsters
-Actionable steps to help with credit card debt
Topic discussion begins at 8:10.
Actionable steps start at 18:09.
Resources/Links:
Money and the Mind website
Our website’s blog page
Music and memory (Paper 1, Paper 2)
Mad Max: Fury Road’s ‘Doof Warrior’ (frightening for kids)
Credit Card Terms and Conditions in Plain English
Distress tolerance article with helpful skills
Ramit: How to stop paying credit card fees (script included)
Ramit: How to get out of debt fast
Ramit: How to lower your credit card interest rate (script included)
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss:
-Andy learned how to cook better eggs from Gordon Ramsey
-Aaron’s new obsession
-Buyer’s remorse
-It’s okay to spend!
-Neuroplasticity
-Ways to spend that maximize wellbeing
-Actionable steps
Topic discussion begins at 6:58.
Actionable steps are mentioned throughout, with dedicated discussion starting at 36:56.
Resources/Links:
MasterClass
The (unhelpful) MarketWatch calculator
Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending
Indistractable
I Will Teach You to Be Rich
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss:
-A fun connection to a writer of ‘The Office’ and ‘Parks and Rec’
-Internal vs. external locus of control
-Internal reference and financial tendencies
-Reframing thinking
-Our friendly neighbors from Iowa
-Actionable steps and resources to help
Topic discussion starts at the 7:05 mark.
Resources/actionable steps starts at 25:50 (reframing), and more starting at 31:40.
Resources/Links:-Nick Offerman sings our friend David’s jingles on the Poscast
-David von Kampen website
-Millennial Mental Health Channel podcast
-Paper: Money Disorders and Locus of Control: Implications for Assessment and Treatment
-Book: The 33 Marks of Maturity
-Paper: Locus of Control and Savings
-Not mentioned but helpful: Building Your Resiliency
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss:
-Aaron implementing a show recommendation
-Aaron: the most helpful thing I learned this decade
-Andy’s bout of depression
-Why saving money is difficult
-Using an internal locus of control approach to saving
-Various ways to help with saving
Resources/links:
-MarketWatch tweet
-Article on Dr. Brad Klontz research: Getting Sentimental Could Increase Your Savings
-The Effect of Language on Economic Behavior (full paper or a brief NPR link)
-I Will Teach You To Be Rich
-SuperBetter
Not referenced but helpful:
-How to save $1,000 in a month
-Morgan Housel: Let Me Convince You To Save Money
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, Andy and Aaron discuss:
-Andy’s poker night
-Aaron’s (inadvertent) theft attempt
-Why it’s easy to accumulate credit card debt
-What happens when children see us use credit cards, discussing money with our children
-The stress of credit card debt
-A ‘Homeward Bound’ reference
-Practical and therapeutic ways to help
(Note: The Dave Ramsey discussion around minute 16:00 referenced an article written by Rachel Cruze, mistakenly implied as written by Dave.)
Resources/links:
Jordan Harbinger 6 Minute Networking course (free)
Make Your Kid a Money Genius (Art of Manliness #297)
Always Leave Home Without It: A Further Investigation of the Credit-Card Effect on Willingness to Pay
The Dave Ramsey Show
Journal of Financial Therapy article
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode, we discuss:
-The Grilled-Fried-Micro Burger
-Omaha’s famous rock
-Aaron and Andy’s tendencies with spending
-Overspending, its effects, and examples
-The Vanderbilts
-Techniques/resources to help with overspending
-On what Aaron and Andy would overspend
Links:
Strange Planet comic (not discussed but perfectly fitting for the episode)
Omaha's famous rock
Fortune’s Children
Story reference 1
Story reference 2
shopaholicnomore.com
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On today’s episode we discuss:
-A Frozen 2 family outing
-Excitement for Star Wars Episode IX-How dopamine works
-Personal examples of the anticipation effect
-When dopamine can hurt financial decisions
-A brief interview with Kaden
-Using dopamine to our advantage
-Actionable steps and resources
(Note: Andy mentions the year 2012 around the 6:10 mark; the actual year was 2017.)
Resources and links:
Art of Manliness Podcast #184 with Ramit Sethi
The 33 Marks of Maturity by Brett and Kate McKay
Your Money and Your Brain by Jason Zweig
Art of Manliness Podcast #429
Aaron’s post on Star Wars
Aaron’s post on dopamine
Welcome to Money and the Mind! On this episode, we discuss:
-Nihilistic password security questions
-Common phobias
-Andy’s fears/phobias
-Aaron’s phobia and related anxiety
-Money-related fears
-A money avoidance story
-Actionable steps and resources
Links:
Saving $1,000 in 30 days
Negotiating a raise (video)
Negotiating a raise (blog with scripts)
Welcome to Money and the Mind! Discussed in this first episode:
-Introducing ourselves
-Introducing the show
-Andy’s group therapy story
-Aaron’s credit card information was stolen
-What is financial therapy?
-Andy and Aaron discuss their own relationship with money
-What did you want to buy when you were a child?
-Actionable steps and resources
Links:
The Atlantic: Your Brain on Poverty
Credit Karma
Financial Therapy Association
Mind Over Money book
I Will Teach You to be Rich book
Dr. Brad Klontz YouTube page
Show email: moneyandthemind@gmail.com